The Tim Dillon Show - Bonus Episode: Abby Martin

Episode Date: December 1, 2023

Tim talks with journalist Abby Martin about the conflict in Gaza, who was there first, inequality of cultures, Putin and the shortcomings of fundamentalism. American Royalty Tour 🎟 https://www.timdilloncomedy.com/ SPONSORS: Magic Mind MagicMind.com. ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ Subscribe to the channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4wo... Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/timjdillon/ Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/TimJDillon Listen on Spotify! https://open.spotify.com/show/2gRd1wo... #TheTimDillonShow Merch:  https://store.timdilloncomedy.com/ For every $400,000 we gross in revenue, we are donating five dollars to end homelessness in Los Angeles. We are challenging other creators to do the same. #TimGivesBack

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Tim Dylan show, very special episode. We're joined again by Noah Tishby who is here. No, I'm kidding. It's freaky Friday. And we have journalist Abby Martin here with us as we promise we would get her documentary Gaza fights for freedom, which I watched again the other night. And a lot of people are now rediscovering the documentary because they're uneducated about what's going on as I am. And you have been boots on the ground covering this issue

for years when no one cared about it. And you're concerned, and what's interesting about you, you're a big critic of Israel, we know that. But I don't really hear a lot of people calling you anti-Semitic, I don't see that. I don't, I've never heard you like engage in any kind of weird conspiracy mongering about the Jewish question or whatever. You, you focus on facts and you report facts that are uncomfortable to governments. This is what I've always seen, right? Whether it's the American government or the Israeli government, that's what you do. And you don't,

you go to these places, you have, you spent time in Gaza. So what is from someone who has sources there, who speaks to people there, who knows people there, what is happening right now? Because I think a lot of people obviously recognize Hamas' attack was brutal and everybody has sympathy for people whose children are being hostages or whose family is being hostages. But there are also a lot of civilians and gods that are dying and you've covered that closer than probably anyone I know. What is going on there now? I'm glad that you set up that pretext because I am a journalist,

critical of US empire and its proxy forces. And Israel is its central proxy in the Middle East. And there's a multitude of reasons for that. Can we move your mic just a little closer because yeah, perfect. So there's a multitude of reasons, geopolitical reasons why the US supports and backs Israel so much. I, as a media critic and as a propaganda critic, my whole life, I, I realized Israeli propaganda, echoed by the US, was such an important case study.

And so I really have done a deep dive over the last 10 years, speaking to hundreds of Palestinians, speaking to dozens of Israelis, including former soldiers going there on the ground, spending a month in the occupied West Bank, I'm actually banned for life from entering Gaza. I was told that I was a propagandist and an Iranian agent from the Israeli government.

I thought that I was a Venezuelan agent and a Russian agent, so I like to keep up. You wear a lot of hats. I wear a lot of hats. So I wasn't actually able to get in, but I worked with journalists inside through the blockade to create the Gaza Fights for Freedom. What is going on right now is a textbook case of genocide. And I can explain why. This isn't just me pontificating from an armchair analysis. These are

Holocaust scholars. Three of which have actually put forward a case against Anthony Blinken and Joe Biden for complicity in genocide. They have actually set formal charges. These are holocaust scholars that are Israeli historians asserting this. So not only that, but of course you have the crime of apartheid. These are the most serious crimes against humanity. So I could talk about context all day long. I could talk about context behind the October 7th attack.

But all of that is kind of pushed to the side when you see what is Israel doing in response right now. And that is committing genocide against the Palestinian. I guess the response that they would say is that if they wanted to do a genocide, they would have done it already. They're basically saying their argument is, we're responding to this attack, we're trying to get rid of Hamas

and our mission is to eradicate the leadership of Hamas and Hamas fighters and they embed themselves with civilians. This is what is out there as the party line and this is what is being said, I'm sure there's some, you know, there's, there's elements of truth to everything, right?

So they're basically saying Hamas is, you know, command centers are all under hospitals. I don't know if this is, I mean, obviously you're familiar with that. And is this something that is well known? Is this true in your estimation? So, okay, they say that they are targeting Hamas. Right.

Right now, during the four day truce, we've seen kind of the death toll like be accounted for at this moment. Now that the hospitals that have been bond relentlessly are able to finally account for the dead, 20,000 civilians have been killed. I'm sorry, 20,000 people have been killed. They claim a thousand were fighters.

So right out of the gate, that's an extraordinary amount of civilian, 70% women and children, 8,000 children. 8,000 children. You have UN officials. You have people who have documented war zones all over the world saying this is unprecedented. This is an unprecedented amount of carnage.

It's a blood bath and it's a slaughterhouse and they have never seen anything like it. So for Israel to claim that they are targeting Hamas, it doesn't really make sense when you look at the complete destruction and leveling of civilian areas. They are targeting hospitals. They are targeting schools. They're targeting mosques where they know

tons of civilians are sheltering there. Hamas is underground. So why would you level the entirety So tons of civilians are sheltering there. Hamas is underground. So why would you level the entirety of the infrastructure on top of Gaza if you're trying to target fighters underground? And no, there is absolutely no evidence for human shields, and I can debunk that all day, and there's no evidence for command centers under hospitals. Interesting.

And is this something that, because Bill Clinton has repeated it, like a lot of people have repeated that idea that the command centers are under the hospitals. Early on in this conflict, there was a hospital, I'm forgetting the name here. Oh, they are. The one that they claimed was an errant missile. Right.

Was, they claimed that it was an errant missile from Hamas. But a lot of people thought that it was an errant missile from Hamas, but a lot of people thought that it was potentially a strike, a missile strike. Where are you on that? So there's so, there's so many lies. I mean, Israeli propaganda, it's very well funded. There's a billion dollar apparatus behind this. There's war rooms at Tel Aviv University

that fund and employ people to correct the record online. It's a very, it's a very concerted effort to obfuscate the obvious reality. So right out of the gate on October 7th, almost all of the lies, all of the things that we were told turn out to be lies. We headed babies, the mass rape, all of those things. It turned out to be a lot of that was false.

We actually don't know exactly what happened on October 7th because everything Israel said It turned out to be a lot of that was false. We actually don't know exactly what happened on October 7th because everything Israel said is turned out to be lies. Then it turned to what was happening in Gaza. Human shields. And then the most egregious attack at first was the Al-Arab hospital. 500 civilians were massacred in this bombing. It was completely shocking because it was the largest casualty, mass casualty event ever against Palestinians from Israel. So that was like really shocking. There was a lot of international outrage.

That was mounting. And then immediately all the sudden the news became, actually it was an errant missile from Islamic Jihad. Now I immediately just stepped back and thought, wow, that's so crazy that an errant rocket, the first time in the history of this conflict was able to kill 500 people. If that's the manpower of these rockets, we would have seen a lot more civilian set, because rockets do miss fire.

Sure. In the strip. Sure. That is unprecedented level of carnage. And so this is how you know it's false, Tim. You don't need to know anything else about the blast radius or the zone or what it looked like afterward. None of that matters. Or even the satellite footage of that actually turned out to be debunked. They reversed the angle of it. This is how you know it's a lie. Israel released doctored audio recordings after claiming to be Islamic

jihad operatives talking to each other proving that they had the command center or that they had misfired the rocket excuse me I'm talking about another propaganda Thing later on about the al-shefa hospital So they actually released an audio recording of two Islamic jihad operatives being like hey man that was my rocket Oh, man like we fucked up. We shot it was crazy and then what turned out and I don't know their doctor because audio forensics Experts from channel four news. News, which is the mainstream news publication, they analyze the recordings in Fennet

that they're recording on two separate channels. Like you would have like a podcast and then mix them together. It wasn't a legitimate phone call. And plus people in Gaza don't use just cell phones. They know everything's recorded and monitored through surveillance. So they use different kinds of methods to discuss things.

And so the fact that that was a doctored recording really just pokes a hole in the whole narrative. Why? That was embarrassing. First of all. It wasn't, Eric. This will why the hell would you really should? And then I found out 10. This is insane. All of my, all of this comes back to 2010, the Flotilla massacre, when Israeli forces common deer to ship in international waters and executed like eight or nine activists on board, completely unarmed that were just delivering aid to Gaza. That's when I woke up to how egregious the propaganda was because I saw our mainstream media running with the narrative that people on the boat were the ones who were aggressors

trying to stave off commandos that had just executed their friends with tables and chairs and acting like they deserve to be executed. Back then, Israeli forces released an audio recording, doctored, claiming that the people on the ship were saying go back to Auschwitz. That turned out later to be false. They admitted as such. This is a playbook that I'm realizing that they do. Yeah. Well, it's interesting. The Israeli lot, like John Meersheimer, who's a historian wrote a book about the Israeli lobby,

and he described it as this kind of loose coalition of interest groups, not all of them Jewish, a lot of them are Christians, right? A lot of them are like fundamentalist Christians in America that are deeply supportive of all of Israel's actions, right? And, you know, obviously certain interest groups have a lot of power and have a lot of influence. And that's certainly one of them. And you know, what he had said recently was on Lex Friedman's podcast. He said, the definition of anti-Semitism is now expanded to include any criticism of

Israel. So if you criticize Israel's actions, it's anti-Semitic, but he goes a lot of the policies being pushed by hardliners in Israel aren't good for Israelis. And they're not good for Americans. You know, a lot of, I didn't think the Iraq war was great for Americans, right? I mean, all of these things that we now know, we look back on these, you know, foreign wars and how much money we've spent. We've sent floods of refugees all over the world. And we see these are not policies that have been good

from Americans, right? They enriched a small percentage of Americans, you know, how do you, how do you separate? There is clearly anti-Semitism. There are people that hate you. There are people that think they control the whole world. There are people that think that they're in the cupboard. They're everywhere. they're under the bed, whatever it is, how do you separate that? Because there are some of those people out there and some of them are going to these marches and some of them are probably, you know, they certainly are crazy things going on. Colleges, people being locked in libraries, people being harassed. How do you separate that, which is a real issue from the kind of legitimate criticism of

the actions of Israel? And let's not forget the rise in anti-Palestinian hate as well. To be able to just got shot, just got shot. There's 100% of them might die because they were wearing cuffias. They became very horrible. And I, there was a young child that was shot too. Young child stabbed a death. So there is there are people that are giving any excuse to hate will hate and do horrible things. You know, an anti-semitism is I think it is on the

rise world wide for just in general. And it has been well before October 7th. I think is. Lamaphobia has been on the rise in general. And it has been well before October 7th. I think Islamophobia has been on the rise in general well before October 7th. So these are huge problems. Yeah. The problem is that Israel conflates itself with a peaceful, beautiful religion. Right. It claims to represent the land of the Jewish people. And it slaps the starved David on a colonizing force. It's a colonizing apartheid settler colonial state. So now explain that because their argument is a lot of lands, including the one we're on right now, America, have been founded through plunder and and and and and fevery to a degree.

Right. This is a lot of the world. We look at the world in the way these countries came into being, right? What makes Israel different? Because the contention out there is like, saying that Jewish people shouldn't have a homeland, when no one says that about America or other countries, for example, they say that that in and of itself is anti-Semitism

and it's about the eradication of the Jewish people. Right. So first of all, you mentioned earlier that anti-Semitism in general, I think that this is being debunked. This was basically the excuse to tamp down on any criticism of Israel for a long, long time. And a lot of the times it worked because you're putting people on the defense who are anti-racists and anti-bigot and saying,

you're anti-Semitic for criticizing this state. And so a lot of people were just reflexively like, no, no, no, okay. And that's why you have this tendency of liberals to just kind of like apologize and excuse what's been going on for a long time. Until Jewish people became an important facet of the pro-Palestine Solidarity Movement.

And I think that we've seen an enormous wave of Jewish solidarity activists staging direct actions, participating in these protests. It's insane. I mean, you can no longer say that that it's anti-Semitic to criticize Israel when you see such a huge component, Jewish people themselves, religious and secular. Second of all, when people say, do you think that Israel has the right to exist? It's not so much about,

do Jews have the right to exist in a place? Like, obviously they do. Here's the question, when you say, does Israel have the right to exist? What are we talking about here? Are you talking about, does Israel have the right to exist? What are we talking about here? Are you talking about, does Israel have the right to exist as in a partied state? Does Israel have the right to exist as a military occupation?

And does Israel have the right to exist as a colonizing entity where you are subjugating another people and brutalizing them in a cruel fashion? No. Right, so now this is a partied state. Yes. Explain that. Yeah. To people. Explain that. Yeah.

To people. I will. Yeah. And to your point also about we are sitting on a land that was, you know, we ethnically cleansed this land of Native Americans. Horrible genocide that took place. We all acknowledge how horrible the genocide was hundreds of years ago. Right.

It's awful. If that were happening right now, I would not support it. Right. That is real for 75 years has been based on, like Noah Tishby, you know, what was really insulting to me about her being on the show is that she lied to you. And she didn't share the clip.

Sorry. She lied to you and lied to your audience. Yeah. Look, Israel, you can criticize the policies of Israel, but the problem is the policies that you're criticizing are foundational to the state. It is foundational to have a military occupation. That is what Israel exists upon. It is in a part-tied state where they subjugate and have different laws for the Palestinian

residents. What would be the other way? You know, obviously, we don't want, like like the situation in Gaza is terrible. Right. I mean, the people living under those conditions, this is not good. What would be the way to do it? Is it a two-state solution where each state has an autonomous thing? How does it work? So yeah, because it seems like I don't feel like they're all gonna live together happily. That's just my instinct.

It's not at first. Certainly not at first. My instinct. No one's gonna hold hands together and, you know, and sing. I mean, this is something that's gonna take decades. Yeah. Just like this, I mean, just like,

Farquan Columbia, like, these things happen and they happen with a lot of international oversight. Right. And parameters set up where people have to abide by the rules of, you know, coexistence. The bloody violent conquest that Israel is based upon and the expansionist nature that Israel is based upon is a huge problem, right? If Israel just was created in 1948 with 1948 borders and then chilled and chilled out.

It's a different story. It would be a different story. The settlements, the evicting people from home. This is a completely different story. Yeah. Look at just from October 7th and the West Bank, where Hamas doesn't have any ruling authority. 200 people have been killed. Just last night, four teenage boys were executed by Israeli snipers and left to bleed out because they started blocking the ambulances from getting to their bodies. During the truce, if that happened, if Hamas killed four Israeli teenagers last night, what do you think the news would be right now? So when I look at what is the solution, what does Israel have the right to exist as the

majority of the Arabs in Palestine have agreed upon a two-state solution with 1967 borders. Israel has rejected that for the last 20 years. There is no rule in the society. What was the deal with the 1990s? The deal that almost happened. Well Israel has rejected, Palestine papers came out about a decade or so ago and they showed it was into that deal. No.

No. If you look at showed secret negotiations. No. If you look at the secret negotiations between Israel and Palestine over the last, you know, from the 1990s until 2010, every single concession that Palestinian leaders made, Israel rejected and laughed out of the room. They even offered to be permanently demilitarized. They offered Jerusalem, they offered, I mean, they offered almost everything

imaginable because Israel doesn't want Palestinians to have a state. Right. And so today, the center of gravity in Israel shifted to the right. 100%. And there was a time, every American president, again, this is right out of your shimer on the freedman, which I think is well worth a listen. Every American president was saying, we need a Palestinian state, we need two states, from when I was a kid. But that idea has seemed to have gone out the window. There doesn't seem to be the political will for it.

In the last 10, 20 years, I haven't heard it much. And Israel seems to not care about it as much. It's just Americans who are plated into this idea of a fantasy of inevitable peace through this two-state solution diplomatic process that is false. It's a false hope. And it's really insulting

because it's dangled in front of American audiences. Were the ones who are propagandized to, Israeli society knows exactly what's going on. They're not committed to it. They're not committed to it. It's been a dead notion for the last 25 years in Israel. Like no one talks about this at all. Right.

It's Americans who they want to propaganda to us. That's why you have Israeli authorities all the time going on American media speaking English to us. That's why you have US officials lying to our faces about what is going on. While Israeli politicians are openly inciting the fact that they have genocidal aspirations for Gaza, that they want to take over, raise Gaza to the ground and colonize it. Because Hamas, they are the governing body of Gaza, I guess, de facto, right?

Like they were elected. They get a lot of money from Qatar. They're funded by Qatar. They get hundreds of millions of dollars. What is the mission statement of a Hamas? What do they want out of what's what they're doing? What was what was the hope of what they did on October 7th? Is it a program? Is it to kill Jewish people? Is it to it? It doesn't seem like Hamas is interested in having Israel be there at all. Would that be fair to say or are they? Is there a version? I mean when we look at Hamas, is this a?

Do they have the best interests of Palestinians at heart? I think you have to look at, this is where the context does come into play because Hamas only, you know, Hamas hasn't been around for that long. And when they were elected, they were the ones who pushed Israeli colonizers out of Gaza in 2005. So you have to look at the context of that election, which was the first and only election in the Gaza Strip. And half the people that lived there today weren't around when they got elected. A lot of young people. Yeah, a lot of children, half children.

And so that's the context of why they were elected. And they do provide a lot of services, you know, for Gaza residents. They're, I think it's really cartoonish to debase them and say they're a terrorist group who hates Jews. And their objective is to wipe Jews, not only off the map in Israel, but off the world's map. Like, that's what I hear politicians saying all the time.

Does Hamas not say that though? So their initial charter did have anti-Semitic language. And I think you have to look at when you're being colonized, is it really a deep-seated hatred of Jewish people or is it that the only Jewish people you know are the ones brutalizing and killing you and your family? So when people slap a star David on their uniform and they're brutalizing and killing and occupying you,

those are the only Jews you know. Is there anti-Semitism within Hamas? Probably. Is there anti-Semitism among Palestinians and Gaza? Probably. And that's really unfortunate because they don't know any other Jewish people. But I think Hamas has a very important objective. But what about Hamas gets all this money from Qatar? They get hundreds of millions of dollars. The leaders of Hamas live in these pretty lavish condos of the four seasons in Qatar. Is any of that money being used to help the lives

of civilians in Gaza? Well, I wanna finish the point before about what do you think the objective was on October 7th? I think that we've seen it with the hostage exchange and the prisoner exchange that just happened the first round of it is that they're they were trying to gain leverage. Yeah. And when they shoot rockets, they don't wake up one day and say, huh, how many Jews can

we kill today with indiscriminate rocket fire? No, it's usually in response to something heinous that's being done. For sure. Like the Al-Aqsa raid where you had a hundred Rodney King beatings happening simultaneously of worshippers during Ramadan. That shit's crazy, dude. No, you have these examples of Israeli aggression. You also have Palestinian terrorist attacks.

It doesn't seem like, obviously Israel is a superior military, right? So they had to know that Israel was going to respond the October 7th. They had to know they were going to do. Well Tim, as you know, what does Israel do when they don't do anything? I mean, you saw the documentary, right? I mean, tens of thousands of people peacefully marched to the artificial border fence and they were mowed down by sniper fire. Right. I mean, this is what happens when Palestinians do anything. Right.

Do you fully or not? Yeah. I guess the Israeli contention would be that those Palestinians are not, would not be living in Israel peacefully. They would just be, they would be, because Hamas has said we're just going to do October 7th again and again and again. So like that's kind of that issue where I completely understand the fence, the Gaza things fucked up.

I think a lot of Israelis are probably going if these borders open up and people come here, is it, is are we going to just see what we just saw? Okay. So I use, you mentioned what does Hamas want? Our new charter that was revised over a decade ago talks about the differentiation between political Zionism and Judaism first and foremost. And it also talks about the acceptance of a two-state solution among 1967 borders. So even Hamas is willing to accept Israel as a Jewish state if Palestinians had their own

state. No one talks about this. I'm not sure about the comment that you're saying about we would do October 7th. And again, I believe that the thing is, yeah, someone's saying is I think that the goal is to have rights. It's like they are saying we're not going to stop trying to gain leverage and trying to gain something. Well, yeah, there's contacts for like Slava, Giac, you know, made a great point. He goes, listen, it's a horrific attack. I'm obviously not going to condone an attack, but we can't remove the context of what,

you know, has motivated the attack. And it's not solely the hatred of Jews, right? It's that there's this situation that the people in that area have lived under that is unsustainable and creates people that are hopeless and willing to embrace these crazy methods, right? I think if you were to say, I mean, this is, I don't know, we will repeat October 7th again and again, a Hamas official. Yeah, until, probably until they have international rights that are recognized and not under internationally a legally recognized blockade that has tightened

Every year, and this would this would involve Israel kind of giving up the settlements They have to yeah, that's why all these settlements are deemed illegal on international law because since 67 They have further encroached and encroached and encroached and and just since october 7th they have further encroached and encroached and encroached. And just since October 7th, over 16 villages have been like ethnically cleansed at the barrel of a gun. You have Ben Gavir, one of the ministers of the Israeli government going out and handing out machine guns to the settlers just saying, like, let's get this done. While all eyes are on Gaza, let's go.

Let's go ramp up the ethnic cleansing in the West Bank. And that really shows you that that exposes what Israel is all about, right? I mean, this, this is what it is. It's not about eliminating Hamas. It's not about eliminating Hamas. They, it's so explicit and it's so laid bare. Right. And that's what's so offensive about it.

It's like, look, they have to have rights. You cannot treat people this way. This is, this is the definition of blowback, right? This is what happens when you subjugate people under the rule and control of one body. And I wanna just provide like this thought experiment. It's like the fact that they keep saying it's a war.

It's a war between Israel and Hamas. What kind of war is waged against a, a cage population? How do you bomb people and say, oh, just leave. They have nowhere to fucking go. How do you do that? Yeah, it is wild. The idea of like, I guess their, their contention to be there are other countries that could take them in.

They control Egypt. They tell Egypt when to jump in how high. Who is real? Yes. 100%. They've bragged about it. Look, there's articles everywhere about when to jump in how high. Who is real? Yes. 100%. They've bragged about it. There's articles everywhere about Israeli officials bragging about how much Egypt does what

they say. Right. But what's even crazier is like, how could you go at war against an entity that you occupy and control every facet of their lives? That's not a war. That's crazy. Right. That's crazy.

And this absolutely, just the fact, just the notion that you can cut off electricity, food aid and fuel. I mean, doesn't that prove right there that there have a complete control over what enters guys? I guess they would say rockets, command weapons, command things like that command. And they would say, how is it an open air prison if Hamas is able to maintain, you know, a steady stream of rockets and materials, things like that? Well, they build the tunnels because they also want things like fast food. I mean, there's things that their tunnels

are used for that's not just rockets, but it, look, the siege is a criminal endeavor. They even put Palestinians on a diet. They've figured out the minimum caloric I, it, it, look, the siege is a criminal endeavor. They even put Palestinians on a diet. They, they've figured out the minimum caloric intake to just be right above malnutrition. I mean, it's, it's sick and it's inhumane and it needs to stop. And it's, and it's, and it's, and it's,

and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, which is understandable, and it's a reality of having this, this

very combustible situation there. Is there any, is there any, you know, as somebody who's looked at this issue, are there times when you look at Palestinian actions or the actions of Hamas and say this, like do you like, if Arifat in the 90s had said, let's just do it. Like we'll do the two-state solution. Would that have helped? I mean, again, the Palestinians did offer every concession. It was Israeli. So you said, no, I swear to God. Yeah. Palestine paper is looking up. Yeah. I mean, that's just something. I mean, I don't, I'm not saying you're lying. It's been said that in his book, he was like the Palestinians are the ones who rejected it. This is a lie. Yeah. This is a lie. They tried to Israel never accepted not taking any

part of the West Bank. They always wanted a part of the West Bank. What is the West Bank? Why is the West Bank so important? See, to me, it's so crazy to me that any piece of land would be so important that you'd want to live in this, you know, this is not good for Israelis. It's certainly not good for Palestinians. What is so important about this land? Like, for example, if people said to me, you know, we want West Hollywood or you could live, you know, it's a contested war for 50 years. I would go take it. You know what I mean? Like, it's whatever. I'll do something else. Why is, why is the, why, what is it about this? Is it, is it something else? Is it deeper? Is it cultural? Is it religious?

What, why not just say take this West Bank? I don't know. It seems crazy. It's biblical prophecy. You know that. Yeah. It's all about the religious. Is it biblical on both sides?

Is it also Muslims going, we don't want Jews in the land of the prophet? I mean, that's also kind of been said by certain people. I certainly have heard, you know, leaders say things like that, or is it, you know, do you think there is, there's certainly probably some biblical stuff. I mean, not biblical, but religious stuff on that side too, perhaps. I have not heard that personally. I wouldn't be surprised if there were are people that say that. I will tell you that out of the hundreds of Palestinians

I've talked to, not one. And I am, I, I show you, not one person told me they can't live here. All of them said we just want to live in peace. Right. Plenty of land. Why do they have to move on top of my village and terrorize me?

Yeah. Just entering Jerusalem for a couple hours, I spoke to a couple dozen Israelis And why do they have to move on top of my village and terrorize me? Yeah. Just entering Jerusalem for a couple hours, I spoke to a couple dozen Israelis, just randomly on the street, and you can pull up this video. It's amazing. Almost every single one was explicitly genocidal

and said, kill them all, wipe them off the earth. I did watch that. I did watch that. I did watch that. And looking right at the camera and it's like, this is shocking. This is shocking. I mean, and of course, it's really leaders too.

Say the same thing. You know, it's not about live in peace. It's about wipe them off the face of the earth, expel them all. I have a better cut on my phone. How did this get so bad? I mean, I know that, you know, obviously this was a, you know, since 1948,

has this always been as contentious as it is now? Have people always felt this way about each other, you know, like, or have things degenerated? And was there a time? Was there a time when, because now it feels like it's hopeless over there. Yeah, you know, it feels hopeless, right? It feels like these people on both sides

don't see each other as human beings and hate each other. And was that always a case? Or has this just increased? Well, before in historic Palestine, Jews, Christians, and Arabs did Jews, Christians, and Muslims all lived in the same territory. There were mosques, there were true, I mean, there were synagogues.

All of these things were, I'm not gonna say everyone was holding hands and singing. I'm sure that there were some problems, but really once the colonial project started, that's where you saw the resentment. It's about land. I mean, it'm sure that there were some problems, but really once the colonial project started, that's where you saw the resentment. It's about land. I mean, it's not, yes, the greater Israel project, that's why you see commanders of the Israeli army

saying Lebanon is ours. We're gonna take Beirut. We're gonna turn Beirut into Gaza. They've taken the Golan Heights. They think part of Syria is theirs. Lebanon's theirs. It's all about the greater Israel to a lot of these major species.

Ultra religious people. An ancient nature of a dead is. It will not stop. Yeah, okay. And this is an issue. But the Palestinians have lived there for hundreds. It's like you can talk about ancient prophecy all day about thousands of years ago,

but the reality is who has lived there for the last couple hundred years? Who has lived there for generations in these homes. And think about it, like if you're home, if fucking China came in with an invading army and started kicking people out of their homes in West Hollywood, well they are doing that.

Beverly Hills, but they're paying great money. If China wants to buy my, I want out of here bad. If China wants to give me five mill, I'm out. But I, I, China's our only hope in LA. Our only hope is trying to come again and give it us money. It's not Americans. Again, afford this shit. No, and, and, and, you know, what there are, I fully understand, you know, because you're listening, there's Palestinian comedians, right? There's Moam or this is, there's, there's people that are, you know, because you're listening, there's Palestinian comedians, right? There's Moam or there's people that are, you know, they're, they don't hate Jewish people. They're just, they're, you know, incredibly disturbed by the conditions in which Palestinians

live. And they've spoken about it passionately and stuff like that. This quote from the river to the sea that has gotten a lot of press. I've never, I've never heard it up until recently, but it has been a big news story from the river to the sea. People have said that it means genocide of the Jewish population because I don't even know what river to what fucking sea. But I would, is it the Jordan River, the Mediterranean, or is it the Euphrates involved? No, no, no. I write. Euphrates is an Iraq, right? I don't.

So, from, from, they're saying, if you want from the river to the sea, it means no Israel genocide of the Jewish people. Is that, that couldn't be further from the truth? And just to exemplify how warped and twisted this concept has become, is that the anti-defamation leak, which is essentially a lobbying force to protect Israel, prior to October 7th, on their website, they talked about this phrase and said that it was just a phrase commonly chanted at like pro-Palestine demonstrations. Right. After October 7th, they went and retroactively changed, revised their own articles saying it's a genocidal incitement.

It is absurd. It is absurd. It's just saying free us. We are under occupation. We are under medieval siege. Free the people. Since when is saying free, give people freedom and liberation? Genocide.

Genocide, it's so crazy. It's like, I feel like I'm living in like an alternate reality watching one side actually commit genocide and justifying it by saying, well, they hypothetically would commit genocide against us. So that's why we need to do this. Like, it is so bizarre. It's a lot of people. It's a lot of people.

And it's crazy. It people. And it's crazy. It's crazy. It's crazy. And it's what would an appropriate response be when you have an attack like that? Obviously Israel's not gonna do nothing. So what's an appropriate response? Obviously, I think the leveling of the buildings

and the displacement of, I guess, 70% of buildings and, you know, the displacement of, I guess, 70% of Palestinians now, right? Or something crazy? 70% internally displaced. Yeah. 70% of people are displaced from their homes. That's crazy. What is a response?

I mean, I think any response other than carpet bombing the entire area would have been a better response. But again, I can't even answer that Tim because it really goes back to like, how did this happen? Because that's how I look at like all US foreign policy, 9-11. I mean, you could have anything and be like, well, why did this happen?

Because I want to know the root of why violence occurs, why violence begets violence. And I want to get to that root and stop it at the root. And the root is occupation and siege. You cannot do this to people. Do you think that there are instances where the root causes are, I'm not gonna say they don't matter per se,

but there are times when an actor so egregious or, you know, for example, like when this happened, when Hamas did this, the first thing is real, there's no way Israel is going to sit down and go, well, what is the right, right? I mean, we know that. We know that they're not going to do that. So I'm trying to figure out what would have been a appropriate response. Like there's no way that's going to happen and they're going to kidnap children and all this stuff. And then Israel's going to go, okay, what do you guys want? Here's the borders. Here's you know, so if you're going to try to get rid of Hamas, obviously carpet bombing is not the right way to do it or it's an incredibly brutal way

to do it. And it's probably going to create new generations of Hamas terrorists, you know? It's, I know that it's tough and I just don't know what their course of action, obviously, what they're doing now is extreme and I think counterproductive. What would have been the move? Do you think they have a right to defend themselves when something like that happens? Under international law does Israel have the right to defend itself if people are coming. Do they have the right to defend themselves by going into Gaza and carbon bombing Gaza?

Absolutely not. Right. Do they have the right to defend themselves by going into Gaza and carbon bombing Gaza? Absolutely not. Right. Do they have the right to defend themselves once Hamas is in these cabuts? Sure. That's a different story because Hamas is right there. Well, when they take the Hamas right there, so they have taken a bunch of hostages. And so has Israel. Israel has thousands of political prisoners. You look at the prisoners that Israel, that they were asked to release and it reveals

the barbarity of the situation. 300 people, the vast majority are children. The vast majority have not been charged with anything. They just are languishing in detention. And like 30 of them have been charged for, I'm sorry, have been held for just throwing rocks. I mean, these people are held for years under administrative detention. Israel is the only country in the world that has military courts for kids. That's crazy. So what is the answer that Israel should have done? I can't answer that. What I can answer is that I think that, you know, when we're talking about self-defense, no one talks about the right for self-defense of the

people that they're actually occupying and everyone's obsessed with Israel's right to have self-defense against the people that they're colonizing. If we ended this, the occupation ended tomorrow. What, what does that look like? Does it look like Palestinians living in Israel with full voting rights? What does that look? What does an ended occupation look like?

So you mentioned apartheid and how that works. And, you know, it is really stark because apartheid is an institutional system of discrimination and segregation against one racial group. Right? In the community of one racial group. What are the two people going to go? Muslims living Israel, they sit on the Supreme Court. This is stuff that Noah said. Is that not true?

So it is true. And that's kind of all part of the ruse, just as the ruse is for the Palestinian Authority and have semi part of a control of area A, you know, of the West Bank, Palestinian authorities and control. So then Israelis can be like, oh, no, no, they're, they control themselves, not talking about area B and C and how a boss is just basically an appendage of the Israeli state and everyone hates him. Israelis are, sorry, Muslims and,

I'm sorry, Palestinians who have Israeli citizenship, they're tokenized and they have very minute roles in Israeli society and write, so a couple sit on in the kinesse and then they can be like, oh, look, Arabs have a voice too. They are routinely discriminated against. There are dozens of laws within Israel proper that discriminated against Palestinians living there.

They can't unify with family that they marry outside of Israel. If they don't have slavish loyalty to Israel, they can be kicked out of Jerusalem. They can't celebrate their Palestinian heritage. There are so many rules, and I'm talking about Israeli citizens, Israeli citizens. There are pogrom rules and I'm talking about Israeli citizens. Israeli citizens. There are pogroms against Israeli Palestinians in the Muslim

courts of East Jerusalem. They have to board up their businesses all the time because people come through and try to fire bomb them and throw rocks at their windows and chant death to Arabs to them. This is the reality there. It is a ruse and it's false to say that they have full rights. And then when you look at the apartheid nature of the West Bank, it's false to say that they have full rights. And then when you look at the apartheid nature of the West Bank, it's completely obvious that it's

in apartheid state. I think the solution, that's up to Palestinians, whether they want two state or one state, but I think with the atomization of the West Bank and how much settlement is planned realistically, it's up to these railings, right? Because I mean like the Palestinians don't really have any. They don't have the right. Because I mean like the Palestinians don't really have the right. So it seems like the Israelis would have to get on board with a two-state. I don't think a one-state, that seems like it won't happen. It seems like especially with the nature of the Israeli government today, which is openly fascistic, it seems very tough.

What a one-state work or would it just be chaos? I think that it would work eventually. I think that, again, there has to be international observers and bodies and there has to be a, like, the whole world has to help make this in the structurally sound and make it work. And you have to remove the settlements that are illegal. You have to. Right, but Israel is also going to say, we're somewhat progressive westernized country. sound and make it work and you have to remove the settlements that are illegal. You have to.

But Israel is also going to say we're somewhat progressive westernized country. You also have a lot of people in Gaza that do not overlap with Israel value wise, right? So if, you know, how does that work in a one state solution? One state solution. I think that if you have people in Gaza that go, we, we, we, we're not into women's rights. We're not into gay rights. We're not into, uh, we're into more of a theocratic type of regime and people in Israel that are like, we're not, uh, into that as much. We're into whatever we're into. How do they all get along and hang out and play soccer? I mean, how the hell do Americans get along? It's barely hanging on by the seat of our pants.

Yes, but for sure, but we have laws that recognize, you know, we have a system of laws where people can, you know, whatever they want to do, but it's like we're not constantly in like a California Texas, which fight fight all the time or not in the constant state of terrorist warfare, right? Right. I mean, we shit on each like people shit on the other one and they both are kind of shit each other all the time. Yeah, they're kind of, but it's not like it is with it.

Like it's just weird to see a, I don't know if a one state's going to work, right? It seems, I mean, maybe it would. I don't know if a one state's gonna work, right? It seems, I mean, it would, I don't know. Maybe a lot of the beliefs that Palestinians have are simply because they are under this, you know, they have Hamas leading them. You know, I don't know, right? It's like a lot of the, you know, the, the, the, a lot of the oppressive nature

of Muslim countries or Arab is a lot of it who's backed by the US, right? Iran, for example, is a progressive country before the coup. We all know that, right? We're not stupid. But right now, you know, a lot of those countries are autocracies, right? And people don't have rights and things like that. So when Israel goes, hey, we're this thing, we're one thing.

And the people over there don't believe in any of that. How does that all work? It just seems like it wouldn't work, per se. You know, I don't see how they're all going to live happily without a lot of violence and chaos. I don't either at the beginning, I think that, look, we just have to look at what is the right thing to do. I think that Israel is a fascist state right now. I mean, they are going around and arresting and throwing Israelis in jail for just simply saying things on Facebook. Well, they certainly are, they're certainly in a, it's in a credibly right wing government.

They're on war footing and they are, you know, doing what we did probably right after 9-11, which is like, you know, anyone that's dissenting, we were, I don't know if we were arresting them, but we were certainly there were suffering, you know, you know, persecution socially and all, all can, you know, financially and all these other ways. Um, those are reals of rogue state at this point. I mean, even the US wouldn't, well, we have, we tried to reign the men at all. No, Bush, HW Bush did. Oh, you mean back in the day, he did.

He tried. And when you said that, the last and worse, yeah, yes, they have because back in the day, it did seem like there was a modicum of possibility for the two states because, you know, especially before, especially like the whole 67 borders, after that, the incremental Taking over of the West Bank and the atomization of the West Bank has made it almost impossible for a second state to exist unless those settlements are removed The settlement's got to go. Yeah, the settlements have to go. Yeah, there's a hundred thousand like there has to be a They have to rebuild Gaza. There has to be a I don't think Israel can have a security role in Gaza That seems crazy. I think Arab countries are going to have to as well as America. And probably also, Israel have to kick

in for a huge rebuilding of Gaza. There has to be, I mean, there has to be some type of, you know, understanding that Israel and America should not have any security role. I mean, that that's been suggested by the, yeah, his government, then they'll have a permanent security role in Gaza with US help. That seems insane. I mean, it's crazy. It's crazy. And what I meant to say is that there are a thousand settlers are in the West Bank right now that are legally squatting.

Yeah. 700,000. They need to be, they need to go. Right. But, but the US won't even do what Israel is doing because they are so worried about tarnishing their credibility. Right. Right. It's crazy what Israel is doing because they are so worried about tarnishing their credibility. Right. It's crazy what Israel is doing.

I have to stress that again, targeting all of the, why are they targeting factors of so much society? In this case, where they're targeting civilians and people in Israel are going to know that's not true. We're not. It's collateral damage, but it does seem that there's so many civilians dying that it's harder to buy the collateral damage argument When so many civilians are dying. Well look at this again like look at the rhetoric of Israeli politicians

They're not denying that they are targeting civilians. They call Israeli defense ministers said we're gonna completely tighten the siege because they are human animals and we need to act accordingly Yeah, and that's crazy. Yeah, and that's crazy. And that's crazy. Yeah, and that's crazy. And that's crazy. And that's crazy. And that's crazy. And that's crazy.

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It is strategic to target all sectors of civil society so you can terrorize the population. This is what happened during the Nock Medearn, Nock Medearn, in 14, 1948, is that you terrorize enough of the population so that the rest of them flee. And that was when 700,000 Palestinians were expelled. We're including.

I saw you talk to Alana Dede, GG Dede sister, and I think they're family. Yeah. Yeah. Every Palestinian that you know around has a story and has a shared history of being ethnically cleansed from that region. And me, a califa too, I just spoke to her and she's Lebanese. She grew up during Israeli occupation.

And so they are targeting all of the most important sectors of civic society. So all the press offices, all the journalists. Do you think Jews have a claim to that land? For example, I have Jewish friends that say, we were there first. I mean, when I talk about, what was that mean?

And supposedly, scientists have found bone fragments that are Jewish people. Like, literally, this is what is put out. They go, we've been there for thousands of years. We were there from the dawn of time. We have a claim to that land. Do they have a legitimate claim? I mean, that's the question, right? Because Palestinians

were there, so they clearly have a claim. And a lot of people say that Jewish people were there for 400 years, 500 years, they were there for a very long time. Do the Jewish people in your estimation? And again, I mean, to say I've not looked into this is would be the understatement of the year. Although I've read, I've read a little bit about it, but I'm not an expert on this, um, at all, you know, other than to say that like, there's been a lot of stuff put forward saying that Jewish people have been there a long time and that they have some claim to that land, and that they were kicked out of all of these countries. And they were ran all over the world because of anti-Semitism and the satan the other thing and they wanted to

stay there after the Holocaust and then they were like it was natural for us to return to this place that we had been since the biblical times. I mean, I don't believe in the Bible so I would say religious fundamentalism doesn't play into my analysis of like, like, geopolitics, but I mean, I, I, this is the claim. This is the claim. That's the claim. It's a ludicrous claim to, to look at ancient prophecy and say, we have the right to ethnically cleanse indigenous people.

Does Israel have the right to exist on top of another people's land and exist by ethnically cleansing and indigenous population by violent bloody conquest day to day. No. Right. But you mentioned something that I just want to finish my point because it's really important. Why are they targeting all of these civilian infrastructures and Gaza because they want to make life impossible to return to?

It's not just about, it's not just about like terrorizing the population if flea, it's to make it impossible to come back because there's nothing left. There is no, there are no schools, no mosques, no hospitals. The hospitals to actually have a war on health facilities like that and targeting, and not just like bombing hospitals, not just bombing hospitals, they have a grade of where everyone lives,

they have complete surveillance over Gaza. They go and target with high precision missiles that are massive and will level like 10 fucking buildings that surround these buildings. They will target doctors and surgeons in the head of the healthcare facilities and they will kill their entire families. Right. That is crazy. They have killed 67 journalists.

This is the deadliest conflict for journalists for like 50 years. I mean, it is unbelievable that they are doing. Just targeting journalists and killing their entire families, targeting them. And that is a fact. Just like Shereen Abouakli, an American citizen who worked for Al Jazeera.

She was sniped by an Israeli sniper and then they attacked her funeral procession in the West Bank. And there was no accountability from the West at all. That's what they do. They're rogue state and they need to be rained in. And the only reason they're doing it is because they can get away with it, Tim, because of the US backing them uncritically and giving them a complete green light to do whatever they want.

Would that change, do you think? Does that is there? Because there are people that are now looking at this going, this is crazy. There are, I think the vast majority of Americans want to cease fire. I think that American support is real. American support, the Israeli culture, you know, the Jewish culture and understand that, you know, they face a challenge in that region to a degree because they are, you know, certainly surrounded by people that do not like them for various reasons. Um, but

I think even America's interested in that are going, this is over the line. And this is not good for America to coast on this and support this without constraints. And this is a lot of people, you know, Jewish people, friends of mine, you know, like they are saying like, this is not a good situation. I remember after 9, 11, America went on a project and it was a project that was described by General Wesley Clark in that clip where he said seven countries and five years and you know, it's destabilized the entire region. It's sent floods of people all over Europe. It's destabilized political situations in Europe. You see a lot of right wing people getting elected

all over the world because people are rightly concerned about immigration and the economy and cultural differences and things like that. But a lot of that is because we went into these places, right? We went into Iraq, we went into Libya, you know, we have issues in Syria. We funded Saudi Arabia to do what amounts to be a genocide in Yemen.

We're, you know, we made a, so I wonder if, you know, Israel is not doing something similar right now where there's going to be lots of unintended consequences from this. Oh my God. That's the understatement of the century. I mean, already the fight between Hezbollah and Israel could erupt into a full-blown regional war. It is terrifying what is happening on the Lebanese border.

And again, like Yemen, the Houthis have common deer to ship. Right. They've sent warning shots saying you have to stop the genocide, otherwise we're going to retaliate Iran. Right. I mean, this is really scary. People who are rightfully terrified about US support of Ukraine, right?

Spiraling out into a World War III. This is equally, if not more scary because of how rapid it's happening and how much that the US seems to have no qualms whatsoever. Well, yeah, I mean, they're there. HW Bush really tried to, he said, this is not good for American foreign policy, tried to, he said this is not good for American foreign policy, to not recognize that there needs to be a two-state solution. Look at us, Assam Vailant, not to justify anything at all, but you have to, just like, a lot of people have pointed out what are these people talking about?

Right. When you just paint people as cartoon evil, like Putin, like Assam Vailant, it's usually pretty clear what the rationale is. I don't condone killing any civilians. I have four killings of them. No, this is what we all, we all on, listen, on this show, we've constantly been a real, a realist about everything and said that, you know, listen, I obviously live in America. So I have a desire to see America

not destroyed, which, you know, if I lived in China or somewhere else, they don't have that same desire. Right. You know, they have a desire to see China not destroyed. That being said, I understand why encroaching on Russia with potentially admitting Ukraine and to NATO and putting potentially missiles there and sponsoring a coup there in 2014. You know, I understand Putin, where Russia has been invaded several times, worrying about the territorial integrity of his country, would feel threatened and rightfully so. I also understand that if you were a Palestinian and you were living under this occupation, why would you not embrace the people that are trying to get you out of it, which is Hamas, right? Or I understand the pathology that happens when you feel hopeless, you know.

That's, you know, it's, they hate us for our freedoms canard, right? Which is not something that I've ever bought into. That doesn't absolve. That doesn't mean I want to live in every country. It doesn't mean I think all cultures are equal either, you know. I don't believe all cultures are equal. I don't believe that my interests are, you know, served by every culture or every part of the world. And I don't, I don't think forcing all these people to live together is going to work. I mean, this is some, that's just my thing. And it's a lot of people across the world are, are, you know, responding to this idea that everybody's going to live together peacefully, may not be the case. I don't know. But subjugating people is a bad thing.

Subjugating people is a bad thing because not only it's a moral problem, but it's a political issue because of blowback. What you just said, it does come back to you. Yeah, we don't have to be. Yeah. We don't have to love each other and love each other. I don't have an interest in telling Yemen how to live. I don't have an interest as an American telling the Yemenis how to behave. That's not in my interest, right? It was not in my interest telling Iraq how to behave or that they'd have Afghanistan, warlords have to live like people in Vermont.

I have no interest in that. I certainly don't have an interest in it at gunpoint. It doesn't seem to be effective, right? So that really becomes the issue. Is that you have a situation where people are really hopeless and they're embracing these pathologies because of this situation. And we need to figure out a way to not make it worse. And by giving Israel on ending streams of money. And then I think Biden just said we're going to take the weapon. What did he say? A thousand more hellfire missiles.

Run the hands of Israel. I mean, I think that what you just said was great. And I totally agree with it. And I think that we don't have to be intellectual cowards. We can be super honest and frank about why things are happening. And analyze the context behind why things are happening. Instead of pretending like Putin is some aberration, some cartoon evil then who just acts out of pure cruelty. Pure malice.

Pure malice. You just can't explain it. This is the guy that after 9-11 called us and said, really sorry, has never launched a war on Western interests once, has never Putin's never done anything. Yeah, instead of instead of being honest, they ban Russian media. They just try to sanitize our reality. Again, we don't create edges. The big threat.

Yeah, and me, my show, you don't forget about me. Of course, yeah, it's crazy to purge history. When I was, I know I criticize Russia on my show. I mean, it's just so crazy to just sanitize our reality and say, you're not, you can't handle the truth. Right. We just have to tell you what to believe. Just as it is, you can't actually hear what Putin saying. You can't analyze the situation for yourself. So that's what I look at anything that's

being painted as this. And I apply it to groups like Hamas. And I want to learn what is Hamas, and why are they doing what they do? I don't think that you can paint everyone in Gaza suffering at the hands of Israel as people who are aspire to join Hamas, but I will say that the people in Hamas certainly have suffered at the hands of Israel. I'm sure the vast majority have lost their power military group. It's a paramilitary group. It's sure it's a terrorist group, but again, what are they going to do outside of terrorism? You know, this is what happens, right? This is unfortunately, you know, and it's not doesn't condone it. It doesn't excuse

it. It doesn't justify what it says is contextually when people feel like they have zero hope and they've seen their family and friends murdered, they embrace these pathologies. This isn't new, right? It doesn't mean that all terrorism comes from that and it doesn't mean that all malice or evil in the world comes from that either. There are people that do bad things for the sake of doing bad things. There are people that want control over other people for the sake of it. There are people that I'm sure want to ethnically cleanse Israel in material of what Israel

does. I'm sure that those people do exist. I know they exist and I've heard them, but in this particular situation, it does feel like there has to be a way to give Palestinians autonomy and rights and prevent decades more of this and cycles of violence. And I don't think Hamas is a terrorist group. Yeah. And is that, well, they engage in terrorism, right? I mean, that's a terrorist thing. Well, it's such an arbitrary term. I want to be clear about what we're talking about.

Well, you could say that Israel's engaging in it too. Anybody who's engaging in the type of stuff that we're doing, but I think when you go to a music festival indiscriminately killing people, that seems to be terrorism, right? If you kidnap children, that seems to be terrorism, right? I mean, it doesn't, now you might say they don't have the military

to engage, like, but when you're hitting soft civilian targets, as Israel's done, so I'm not absolving them, to me, that's kind of the definition of terrorism. It's like soft civilian to it. Now, that, that means like, there's a lot of armies that you could see, I tried, but I wouldn't say Hamas is not a terrorist group because their aims, you know, seem to be to inflict terror on the Israeli population. And the same way that Israel in the way that is behaving now seems to inflict terror on. So I don't want to absolve one group and say that the other group because they both

seem to want to do the same thing. You know, I mean Israel's doing it with a military, but that doesn't mean that it's not terrorism, right? And I mean, that might mean that all war is terrorism, but I wouldn't want to absolve. I don't know what Hamas wants for Gaza. That's part of the hard thing, right? I don't know what Hamas, I know that they've taken a lot of money from Qatar. I don't know what they've done with it. And I don't know if they have the best interest of people in Gaza at heart. I don't know that that I know that they want these really occupation to end, but I don't know enough about them to know what exactly. Are they good at governing Gaza? Are they a legitimate,

because it seems like they're not good at that. Well, it's hard to govern a population that's under blockade. Right, but we don't allow clean water. Would they? I have no idea. I mean, that's the thing is you look at the world and you look at places like Egypt and other places in the Middle East and it's a lot of repression and it's like, what would

this region look like without US interference? I don't know. What does it look like? There's a ton of oil wealth. There's a ton of monoil wealth. And that strikes at the heart of why it's such an important colonial outpost for the US. I don't even know if you saw this clip from RFK, Jr.

Actually, just explicitly laying bare the utility of Israel for the US empire. I've never actually seen someone saying that's an open seat. People know that. People know it. Yeah, for sure. But so I think that also debunks the whole like, why do you care about Israel so much? It's like, it's the US outposting the most. But is that repression also religious?

Is any of that religious where you go? This is something that is just inherently based in religion. But what has allowed the religious repression to flourish? It's it's stemming and subjugating population for sure. And a lot of the policy pockets where religious fundamentalism has has. But then you have countries like Saudi Arabia that are incredibly wealthy and incredibly and who's the and who is any sort of sanctions or international

but Saudi Arabia and the MBS is kind of opening that society up now right little I don't think so well he seems to be our campaign well they've they've certainly made a lot of uh... advancements

I mean you know whether it's enough advancements allowing women to drive finally and some and I disagree with that but they they're doing that. And I'm not even huge on them voting. I say good at the eras tour. I don't, I don't, you know, my whole thing with women is keep your pussy away from me and don't vote. But and I, but I love them in every other capacity. But my whole thing is I try, you know, what, no, but I, I'm saying that there is, there does seem to be like whether it's fundamentalist Christianity or fundamentalist Islam or fundamentalist Judaism,

fundamentalist religion is a problem too. That removed from politics, removed from the concern, there does seem to be in all cultures a need to enslave people based on religion. That is in like if we got rid of all US empire things, would none of that exist because it existed before the US empire. This idea that religion would just dictate and there would be certain people that would like, you know, rise to the top of societies by prominent. And we see it in America, right? We see it right now with Christians going like, you know, follow me. I represent God and I'm making laws based on God. So I mean, that's been around forever. It's pre-US, pre a lot of that. So I, there is some of that. I think that America's made a

lot of mistakes. We've done a lot of wrong things. But like, I don't think it's all, there is this idea that every evil in the world comes from colonialism and or white people, which I don't know, I don't subscribe to that. I know that you have friends that too, and there's nothing wrong with that. There's nothing wrong with that. But to defend Whitey for a minute, prior to Whitey and colonialism, there was a lot of brown on brown colonialism. There was a lot of brown on brown slavery, and there was a lot of religious fundamentalism going on all over the lake. Look, we didn't invent slavery, and we certainly didn't invent colonialism.

My answer to that is I can only do what I can do as an American citizen. We're trying to pitch you to the whites and premises. We're trying to get you on board now. I can't do anything about religious fun. When A.O.C.I.C.I.C.I.C.E. I can't do racist vegetables. I'm saying it doesn't help. What I can do is try to exert some sort of pressure

on my government. That's right. And that's what we respect. How a lot of you are for doing so much problems around the reason that I respect you is because so many people sit on Twitter, you go to the West Bank. So many people sit there and throw, you know, their takes out, you go and make a documentary. You talk to people. I mean, whether people agree with you or not, there are very few people. I think Glenn Greenwald is one of them.

I think you are one of them. I think there's very few others that are out there truly taking risks for the stuff you write and the stuff you write. And the stuff you make, truly. I'm genuinely curious, and I really wanna know what's going on for sure. You know, especially because of how much the media lies,

it's like, I wanna go and talk to the people who we're talking about. Yes, a thousand percent. Are you allowed in Israel, by the way? That's just a really good question. That's a really good question. I that's a really. I don't really want to buy a flight. I don't want to buy a flight and then just get there and then be like, get the fuck out of here. I mean, if I, I do want to dress up like rabbis.

What if me and Abby Martin try to get in Israel dress up like rabbis? The CIA drops Tim Dylan after Abby'll be Martin Rabbi stunt in television. I can see it now. I can see it now. Jerogal called me and was like, I'm a wild. I was wild when you were in Abirdon. Where can people watch your documentary? Where can they support your work?

Where can they read your stuff? We know RT, they got rid of it. Got rid of it. But because tons of people were like, you know, when I had no on, they were like, yeah, I don't of it. Got rid of it. But because tons of people were like, you know, when I had no on, they were like, yeah, I don't have it. And I was like, I'm going to have someone on that is going to present another side to it, a thousand percent. You are the best person. Thank you. All the people that I think are out there. And there's a lot of smart people.

But I haven't seen anyone do work on this issue. Even when no one was caring about it, like you were there boots on the ground, interviewing people. So if people wanna watch Gaza fights for freedom or they wanna read what you do, support the Empire Files, where do they go? Go to YouTube. Call it still up.

So the documentary is for free up on YouTube right now on the Empire Files channel. We also have a whole playlist reporting from Palestine. Tons of videos from the Occupied West Bank. You can go to GazaFightsForFreedom.com to watch the documentary and tons of other languages for free. And I do have to say that the lead organizer of the Great March of Return, my good friend, Ahmed Arthema,

who I'm in contact with, his 10-year-old son was murdered. And they targeted his home and murdered his five members of his family and he's in the hospital with second degree burns. He is like the Palestinian Gandhi that we keep being told needs to do something peacefully. So this is what's happening. All the people who worked on the film

are suffering to the lead videographer of the film. Both of his brothers were murdered. His home is completely reduced to rubble. It is terrifying and devastating. And if you cherish the sanctity of human life, which you and I do, please call for a cease fire because our representatives need to be pressured. They need to be called,

that's the most urgent pressing demand to him and Republicans and Democrats overwhelmingly support this because how much more carnage and dead children can we take to find basic humanity. Yeah, and I know you're a mother and you know, and even as somebody who doesn't have kids to see the, the carnage and the devastation, I also think we got to get, you know, some type of way out of this so that this isn't a generational issue, you know, some type of way out of this to that this is in a generational issue. You know, that's a two-state solution.

I also think we got to get hostages released. We got to get all of that stuff. For mosses got to release hostages. We got to, right now the hostages that remain are the only leverage to not destroy the rest of Gaza. And after the hostages are released to Netanyahu said that he's returning to flatten the rest of Gaza. Well, this is when America we really have to. Yeah, it's up to us. Yeah, it is. It really is up to us. He's trumped crazy. Quit. Let's throw out a crazy question just before I be Martin leaves.

Let's try to crazy, crazy, crazy, wild question. Now I keep in mind I know you have to go home after you say this. Trump in office now better or worse. It's a very interesting. Here's what I think what happened. I think he might not be worse. I think Trump would be doing exactly what Biden is doing, but without the humanitarian cover that Trump might actually, I don't know if Trump would be, I think he might engage his real more than Biden. I think so. I don't know. I don't know if he did try to move the embassy to Jerusalem. That's, that was a big war move.

Yeah, he did some wacky stuff, but here's what I think would be happening. Liberals would be more mad. Right. Interesting. Okay. Because it would be more mad right now, I think. Do you think Trump wins again? Magic mind contains a magical combination

of 12 active ingredients scientifically designed to improve energy, focus, mood, while decreasing stress. All things that combined improve your productivity. I'm gonna try it right now. It's actually amazing. It tastes good, and I feel more productive already. You don't need coffee or tea anymore. People use stuff coffee or tea every day. Now they're doing this. This is what young tech people are doing, and this is those are the people that are, I mean, wouldn't you, right? They're getting, you know what I mean?

Those are the people. People see them and go, what are they, you know, and we're all behind the a ball. We don't know what's going on. But magic mind, because I'm not stressed when I have this, I'm, but I still want to be productive, but not in a stressful way, which is wild. Many people drink it on an empty stomach

without a problem. Some people might have an issue, but a lot of people are fine. Maybe a light meal 30 minutes before or after drinking magic mine, if you discovered that it's an issue for you. It's not an issue for me. I drink it on an empty stomach.

It's like, this is the new thing that everybody's doing. Everybody's micro-dosing mushrooms, right? Everybody's, you know, because people now are going, how do we, you know, all those things like those futuristic things where food would just be like a blue mush. That's what, you know, that's what this is. But it's not blue, it's green. And it has all the things you need in it. That's the thing. Food's not going to be like a big thing where you sit there with like a bunch of plates. It's going to be a thing where you just take a shot.

Hey, it's Pooja and Gritty from the Pooja and Gritty show. Pooja, what's your favorite part about traveling? Not living by the clock, sleeping in, change of environment, change of pace, get to explore new cultures, new food, and just beautiful vistas. All the things, how about not waking up at 3 a.m. and waking up in a bedroom that isn't at home?

Ha, ha, ha, ha. A first filter I check when I'm traveling on an Airbnb is pet friendly. I got to take coffee the pooch with me. I love doing that. And also, I'm 40. I don't want to share a bed with my buddies. Maybe that was fine 20 years ago. But now I want my own bed and my own room.

And that's really easy to do with Airbnb. I hear you. I know when we went away recently to the Bahamas, I had to bring my parents with me, I had to bring my whole family because I needed help with my two babies, and we needed room. So to be able to have a kitchen and just be able to cook our own meals,

sit at the table together, have a lot of extra helping hands all in one place, it was wonderful. I also really love that sometimes the hosts are very knowledgeable as well. So if you want little tips or great spots to eat or that awesome spot to get a coffee that no one knows about, the hosts can hook you up.

Whether you're traveling with friends or with family or for business or pleasure, you'll get more space and privacy with our friends and Airbnb. This hockey season pick up something to celebrate the puck drop. Wolf Blas Yellow Label Cabernet Sauvignon is now 1495 until December 31st at the LCBO.

Why settle when you can soar? Wolf Glass Yellow Label. Yes, I think this was the red line for Biden. I've seen so many polls, not just with Gen Z millennials, which really helped secure the midterms, I think, because of the Groovy Wade. Those people are the ones on the front lines all across the country, demanding a ceasefire. And on top of that Arab and Muslim and Palestinian voters, Tim, how could you support a man who, de facto committed genocide because this wouldn't be happening without the US weaponry and support

and financial backing? This is on Biden's hands. And if I mean, if I were a Palestinian or I'm I'm not gonna fucking vote for Biden. But like how could a lot of people on the left? How could they? That are not thrilled with Biden for a myriad of reasons, but this being one. Oh, this is, this is, I mean, there's no turning back from this. This is like a Trump. I gotta be honest with you, might be doing a better job of handling this.

Now, I don't know, I cannot base that on much. Well, Trump is out there saying to be fair, Trump's out there saying, let's deport all Hamas sympathizers. I don't know what the fuck that means. I don't know if it just means conflating pro-piles, dying demonstrators with Hamas sympathizers. I don't know what. Who the hell? I do know there's a lot, there's a lot of things being said, you know? But I do feel like Biden just seems cognitively. He's like weekend at Bernays. He's a walking court. Yeah. Seen this guy's with it. We forget the political react. The Biden seems so out of it.

I don't know what he could be on the phone. He's out here talking about beheaded babies just yesterday. It's like what in the holy hell are you talking about, man? Like, oh my God. Yeah. It's, I just want a diplomatic solution. I want, I, I just want it to end. I want the violence and carnage to end. I want the occupation to end.

No one's talking about expelling Israelis from the land. When we talk about a one state solution or a two state solution, Israeli Jews will have a very important place in whatever the future is. To stay solution with abandoned settlements. Yes. Um, we, we get rolled back. No more expansionism.

Stop bombing Syria, stop bombing Lebanon. Stop doing all this stuff. Just cut it out because it's the holidays. We're all trying to make it all in. It's annoying to me. You know what I mean? We've got other problems like the screen actors killed. But no, I mean, that's right.

Yeah, you know, that's why I couldn't do the voiceover for the Hamas leader. I can't believe this whole small group. We got all these ambulances here. I can't believe this whole small little. We got all these ambulances here. I can't believe it happened. How did it happen? Thank you for flying out.

Thank you for coming out. I appreciate it. You know, like I said, this is, it's a comedy show that we usually do. I do a single person show where I just yell for an hour. But we do have people on occasionally that we respect and we think they're worth listening to. And you have really done a ton of research and you know, there are people that don't agree with you, obviously. But no one can say that you're not immersed in this in a deep way.

This is like the issue that I've always looked at the stuff you've done and I'm like, you're out there working on it. So anyone that wants to know more about it, whichever side you're on, including people that don't agree with anything you've said, you know, go watch the thing and, you know, go, I know a lot of Israeli people that go that are Americans that go that are Jewish, that are not Israeli, they go, yeah, they got, I went on like birth right and they go, it does seem crazy what's going on over there. And they go, I don't really even know that much about it. They go, I don't know, it just seems nuts, you know.

And then there are people that are very, you know. Well, I mean, that's, Gaza Fights for Freedom really tells you, and it's actually changed the minds of a lot of Israeli Jews too. Didn't know because they are indoctrinated from birth. And when you go on birthright, you don't even know about the occupied West Bank. You don't go into it.

And so I've had people say this changed my mind because it shows you what happens when Palestinians peacefully resist. And what the actual context in state of Gaza is, check it out, Gaza GazaFightsForFreedom.com. You can check out Empire Files. We're on all platforms. We do a hell of a lot of other work too. Tim, we're working on a documentary right now about the US military being the world's largest polluter Earth's greatest enemy. I don't believe it. Business notifications getting out of hand buried under an avalanche of customer emails,

texts, and social media messages? Keep your edge with Thrive Small Business software and never miss a message again. Thrive offers one solution to communicate, market, and run your business. But simply, small businesses run better on Thrive. Get Command Center for free today at thrive.ca. That's THRYV.ca. Terms and conditions apply. Free plans have limited functionality. I refuse. I refuse to believe that they are not, are you telling me the US military is dumping things in areas they should it? I, I, I won't hear it. I won't hear that heresy. Abbey Martin, thank you. Thank you. I appreciate it.

Thank you so much. I know our comedy show this was very brave to do because people get actually canceled for doing this. So well, I appreciate you. The good news is I'm already really rich. All right. Thank you. I be appreciated. I appreciate you. Thank you, Shed. I appreciate you.