The Truth Shall Make Ye Fret - 133: Making Money Pt. 1 (Wide Sandwiches, Glandular Tripe)

Episode Date: February 5, 2024

The Truth Shall Make Ye Fret is a podcast in which your hosts, Joanna Hagan and Francine Carrel, read and recap every book from Sir Terry Pratchett’s Discworld series in chronological order. This week, Part 1 of our recap of “Making Money”. Green! Etymology! Interference with the Nature of Causality!Find us on the internet:Twitter: @MakeYeFretPodInstagram: @TheTruthShallMakeYeFretFacebook: @TheTruthShallMakeYeFretEmail: [e-mail]: www.patreon.com/thetruthshallmakeyefretDiscord: https://discord.gg/29wMyuDHGP Want to follow your hosts and their internet doings? Follow Joanna on twitter @joannahagan and follow Francine @francibambi Things we blathered on about:The Magnus Protocol – Rusty Quill Old Gods of AppalachiaBBC Radio 4 - Mythical Creatures [Rhianna Pratchett’s programme] FolkLands - AcastBudgeting (candles) tweet - TwitterGreen - Wikipedia So close!! That is a shape 💕 - Twitter Gnasher - Beano Wiki [The Abyssinian Wire-Haired Tripe Hound]List of wealthiest animals - Wikipedia Leona Helmsley's Little Rich Dog Trouble Dies in Luxury - ABC News Snails eating mail in Lewdown village postbox - BBC News'Hanging ballads' and sensational literature - Glasgow University  Examples of Broadsides - Glasgow UniversityLament for a Hangman - Glasgow University Music: Chris Collins, indiemusicbox.com 

Alright, let's bring up my list of things we can talk about on the podcast. Let's see how appropriate they are because I've been making this list during what has been quite a stressful month. What have we got, Francine? The Magnus Protocol. Oh, yes. Yes, have you started listening to that? Yes, I haven't listened to this week's episode because in my running theme of everything Buffy all the time, I'm working my way through the Buffy audible series that came out late last year. But I'm only in episode behind on the Magnus Protocol and so far it is delightful in a horrifying way.

I don't know if it's just because like there's a bit of distance between me and the first time I listened to the Magnus Archives, but I feel less willing to listen to this on my own at midnight than I did the Magnus Archives. I've been saving it for my walks. I prefer fiction podcasts for my walks and nonfiction podcasts for while I'm like doing housework and stuff, which I also, because I kind of fell off with it, I went back to the beginning of Old Gods of Appalachia for walks. Oh nice, yeah. And like at this time of year, I like, I have a lovely little wooded bit I walk through and there's no leaves on the trees and there was the smell of smoke in the air when I was walking through there the other day as I was

listening to like the opening episodes of Old Gods of Appalachia. Which for listeners who have a listen, go and listen to it. But yeah, there's fire in there. The vibes were there. The vibes were good. The vibes. The vibes. My kingdom for the vibes.

Not. It's fine, don't worry. Rihanna's. Rihanna Pratchett's excellent radio program. Also loving. The folks were at one. I made the mistake of discovering, if that's a sentence, that they were all available on iPlayer, or BBC sounds all at once. And so I've been to that over two evenings while playing Valheim. Excellent way to do that, I thought.

That is a nice way. I spaced it out and tried not to listen to all the couple of episodes at a time because I find there is a limit to my information retention. I know if something has got a lot of short episodes, it ends up just vooshing past me a little bit. That's the word. Yeah. It has reignited my previous desire to write something, whether that be a rabbit hole or an article on dogs in folklore. Between listening to that, listening to Folklans, the Tim Downey podcast about British folklore. Well, I started listening to that, yeah.

Isn't it great? Yeah, it's fantastic, yeah. And also listening to like fiction podcasts, I fell off the habit of doing that for a while. My brain is very, very burning at me, do some kind of weird like Eld Eldritch horror, British folklore, fiction thing, write it, make it, please do it. Yeah, yeah. So it's bullet points right now. I was thinking about, and in the end December to January was so insane, I didn't, but looking at one of the, you know, the like, Pagany get together, things were sailing, whatever, and seeing if you want us to do that, maybe next year.

Yeah. Or in the summer. Let's do something folklorist this year. Let's do some on the ground folklor. Let's go somewhere weird and experience it. Yeah. Yeah. Listeners recommendations for weird folklorist shit we can go see.

Yeah. I'd like that. It is very weird listening to folklorist when I've been playing while I was gate three, because obviously he voices one of the characters in it. I'd like that. It is very weird listening to Folklowns when I've been playing Baldur's Gate 3 because obviously he voices one of the characters in it and the way he talks about folklore, it's very that character. Oh nice. So because it's just like, is that Gale of Waterdeep?

In my ear. Get out. Stop eating my boots. It'd be really funny for the people who play Baldur's Gate. It's quite funny for me and I haven't, but I am slightly delirious. Well, it's good to know I can entertain you this evening. Sorry, I'm being a bit distracted because, and I apologize so much listeners, if this picked up on the mic, there's a loose drain or rather a drain in a loose island of

tarmac just outside of my window. And every time a car goes over, it goes thump. So that's going to be real fun. If it helps, I can't hear it. Oh, good. That is good. That's very true. I've been working in the living room all day because of that. I have been doing as much work as possible in my bedroom where I can't hear the drumming quite so much. That sounds so ominous. Oh, yeah, sorry. I've got a neighbour with a drum kit quite so much. Sounds so ominous.

Oh, yeah, sorry. I've got a neighbour with a drum kit. The drums. It's not the drums of hell. They come the trip. Yeah. As far as I know, there are more. Moria Moria.

One of the two, you know. But yeah, as far as I know, orcs not invading my flat. Good. Because it will take my landlord forever to get back to me if that happened, like I have to find the estate agent. Yeah, I have to find the landlord and like.

Yeah, they've got to have a permitted fucking orc remove our... Exactly. And also I don't have any like double doors for Aragorn to burst through in my flat, which... So even if he does come and try and sort these... I mean my front door opens outwards. Like there's just no,

you can't be making a dramatic entrance with that. That's terrible actually, Now I think about it. No, it's really terrible. I've hit so many weight-tracing if we got it in the face. Well, not in the face, but like I've come close. I'm very careful when I open it. Excellent. Anyway, where are we? Who are we? What are we doing? Did you have anything else to- I'm gonna need to say the lead on all of those questions tonight Joanna I'm afraid I'm I'm deliriously tired.

But to mean this we still don't make a functioning podcast speaking of Francine do you want to make a podcast. I do want to make a podcast let's make a podcast. Hello and welcome to the true show make you fret a podcast in which we are reading and recapping every book from Terry Pratchett's Discworld series, one of which is time in Chronological Order. I'm Joanna Hagan. I'm Francine Carroll. And this is part one of Making Money. The somethingth Discworld novel, I'm not even going to pretend, I know. Oh, oh, wait, no, I've got it. 36th.

36th Discworld novel, we are here. We are here in our last year of podcast. You can't start saying that at the beginning of the year because I am going to start crying every time you say it. It's not even true. But we are into late stage discworld. Yeah, we are. This is our last year of podcasting specifically, discworld books in order. Yeah, thank you for bearing with us.

We had our little month off listeners. We've had a lovely mental reset and we're completely healthy and well refreshed now. Yes. For a given value of. Note on spoilers before we get started. This is a spoiler light podcast. Obviously heavy spoilers for the book making money, but we will avoid spoiling any major future events in the Discworld series. And we're saving any and all discussion of the final Discworld novel, The Shepherd's Crown, until we get there so you dear listener can come on the journey with us which is ending this year. Loretta If you would just care to step into the carriage? No rush. There's still no rush. Jemma Right, follow up. Francine, if we've got follow-up.

Francine We have. If any listeners who sent follow-up Oh, we have. If any listeners who sent follow-up about Winter Smith's Apologies, we'll try and dig it out at some point. But this is from The Colour of Magic. Amazing. A Mr. Gross or Gross messaged me from TikTok and said that today, during The Colour of Magic, about today, four years ago, I think, we mentioned the Octorine Fairy Book and attributed the idea to the Grim Brothers, but they think it's more specifically Andrew Lang's Blue Fairy Book or one of the other colours. They're sure we've had lots of people pointed out already, but it was bugging them and they

felt it was their solemn duty to let us know. Now, it's possible that lots of people did tell us that. I don't remember. If they did, I don't remember it at all. I do love a bit of Andrew Lang. Yeah, no, it was four years ago. I don't think I know that book. I guess we haven't been told. That's a pretty book, very pretty book. A very pretty book. Francine, do you want to introduce us to the book Making Money? Yeah, I do. So, Making Money. It's the second Moise Von Littford book. It is, as I say, the 36th Discworld novel and it was published in September 2007.

In 2008, it won the Locust Award for Best Fantasy Novel and received a nebula nomination. From a Life with Footnotes, Rob Wilkins says, Examining the precarious mix of mathematics and trust that enables the functioning of the Rob Wilkins says, I'd kind of forgotten the confluence here. This will cause the times to suggest, not entirely jokingly, that the book should probably be reviewed on the business pages. I'd note at this point, because this is what was being mentioned in the book, that it is this summer, just after finishing writing this book, that Terry gets his diagnosis of Alzheimer's. So this is all around that time. It's been a while, and so I picked out some of the foreign titles because that's always fun. So in German, it's a Schöne, oh gosh, Schöne, China maybe, but that's beautiful bills.

In Dutch... You did this to yourself. Geld moet waaperen, waaperen, maybe. But the point is money has to flutter. Oh, I like that. Which I rather like. Yeah. That's a couple of those. If everybody could pretend I didn't try and say the original language is there and just react to the, to the translated titles, I'd really appreciate it. Thank you. Save me an editing job. God, why didn't I think of this years ago? Can everyone just pretend I didn't fuck that up? Thank you. Yeah, okay, carry on. So, what happens?

Where are we reading from? Where are we reading to? What happened? Where are we? Before that, can I say, I meant to ask you if I should say this before we started and I forgot. So I'm going to say something and you can add it out if you want, which is I just want to make it really clear to readers. This is the book that was written around the time that Terry Patrick and his Alzheimer's diagnosis. We're not going to do that thing of looking at how his Alzheimer's may or may not have affected his writing that a lot of people do like to dive into. Yes, no, that's a really good point. Definitely leaving it in the episode because absolutely agree.

Awesome. Yeah, cool. So this section covers chapters one through three. There was a slight, I put out which chapters each section is covering ahead of time because I was trying to be organised, but I didn't mess up at all. So section one is covering chapters one through three, inclusive front scene. Section two, I will never not make- You're going to take a dig at me. You take a dig at me for looking at it and not spotting

your mistake you didn't make. Section two will be chapters four through seven. And the final section will also include chapter eight. And let's all pretend I was doing a bit where I was pretending the number eight didn't exist and not just forgetting how to count how many chapters there are in a book. Chapters, as it were, seven B, three to the end. You'll know when we do it. Anyway, so in this section, they always know when we do it. You don't need to know ahead of time.

Francine doesn't need to know ahead of time. I know, but... Don't be... Francine doesn't need to know ahead of time. Just turns up. Right, no, sorry. In this section, in Chapter 1, something waits and guards in the dark. Adora bargains for land and moist climbs a drainpipe at night. In the morning, our postmaster extraordinaire sees himself in print and has an appointment with the patrician. There's a job offer on the table, but Moist says no, and he gets some work done. Veterinary's carriage waits, but there's no

rush. Eventually, Moist succumbs to temptation and learns that he might become a banker, a master of the royal mint to boot. He agrees to a look and nothing more, and Mr. Bent begins the tour. In Chapter Two, Moist sees the gold, the mint, the sheds, common men of the, and heads up to the chairman's office to meet Mrs. Lavish, who sees him for who he really is. She informs Moist of Mr. Fussbott's shares and dispatches him to meet Hubert. After a brief foray into the foibles of Mr. Bent, it's down the stairs to where the glooper waits. In Chapter 3, Glass has been blown, and Hubert explains and demonstrates terrible place to use passive voice, I don't know. I'm making this painful for all of us.

By terrible, I mean fantastic, please carry on. Bent born moist away from the lavish family. Meanwhile, in Big Cammage, a dishonest photographer finds a newspaper and ignores his teeth. Moist considers his future with Adora, Gladys delivers a wide sandwich and veterinary asks for signed proof that Moist is turning down the job. Death comes for Topsy, and as Moist learns of Artemis the next morning he receives a threatening letter. A lawyer, two watchmen and a dog walk into the postmaster's office. Moist considers running but stays to learn he's been left with Mr Fussbot, the new chairman of the bank. As assassins fire warning shots Moist gets into a black coach and comes face to face with Cosmo Lavish. No one wants that. No one wants that. So, Helicopters are online Gloth Watch. Yeah, tell us. The bad penny, big treadmill, helicopter,

just on its side. Yeah, okay, yeah, no know that actually makes sense. It's got spurs and yeah, yeah. They jingle, they hangle, they spoke. For loincloth, I'm going with the rising hemlines in times of economic crisis. Yes. Okay, good. I was going to screenshot that and send it you're like, are you not

going to mention this? I was actually planning on going a bit more into the hemline index and just didn't have time. but trust me, listeners, thoughts about hemlines are coming. They're rising. I'm always, yes, rising thoughts about hemlines. She's a yes. You just about say I'm always thinking about headlines.

Hemlines. Your hemlines. I'm headlines. Let's call a hold. And death is here for things we keep track of. And I very much enjoy his little, this is the reckoning, the final accounting. Yes, I do try and acknowledge the ambience. Very nice. As it was with the closing of the ledger.

Oh, this also works. Very nice. Very nice. Would you have what would an authors be? I suppose an authors would be easy, wouldn't it? The final chapter. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The final chef blog. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I just really enjoy that death does this because I feel like it's in the realm of dad jokes

and death is a very good dad and granddad. Yeah, chef would be last orders, obviously. Yeah. Final ticket. Yeah. Nice. Fucking clean down. And I, as always, am on a deadline. What was, okay, that you'll think about wide sandwich, remind me, I sent possibly to the group chat a month or two ago, like the worst sentence describing food I'd ever read. And I can't remember what it was,

and I can't find it in my very quick scroll. Do you remember? If not, I'll try and find it during the next coffee break. I don't remember. I'm sure it was excellent, but I don't retain information, Francine. It's a miracle I've remembered what bloody book we're talking about. No, absolutely. Quotes. What was your favourite quote from the thing? Moise knew he was squirming, but squam anyway. Squam. Squam reminds me of Squamas. Squamas. Squamas.

Love that word. It's a very good horror word, Squamas, isn't it? Yeah. Good old Eldritch. Squamas. I was lucky, I picked a short one. What's yours? My quote is, I don't know what you're talking about, it's not that long.

Okay. I'm just going to meet myself wonder if we're a bit... See you later. Thank you for listening. No. The Lanker Flyer would be leaving in 45 seconds. He knew he could be down that damn drone pipe in 11 seconds. Stanley was on his way below to bring them up here,

call that 30 seconds maybe, get them off the ground floor, that was the thing. Scramble onto the back of the coach, jump off when it slowed down for the hubwoods gate, pick up the old tin chest he got stashed in the beams of the old stable in Lobbing Clout, get changed to Justice Face, stroll across the city to have a coffee in that shop near the main watch house, keep an eye on the clacks

traffic for a while, stroll over to the Henin Chicken's Court where he had another trunk store with I Don't Know Jack, get changed, leave with his little bag and his tweed cap, which he changed for the old brown bowler in the bag in some alley just in case Jack had a sudden attack of memory brought on by excessive money, and he'd mosey down to the slaughterhouse district and snap into the persona of Jeff the Draver and hang out in the huge fetted bar of the Butcher's Eagle. And it goes on. But I'm not going to do the whole bit because it is a page and a half.

You know I love a run on bit. Yes. But I also love how quickly Moist thinks of this page and a half long plan and then is immediately foiled by the presence of Fred Colon. It's very screen again, isn't it? And I mean, it's described that way, isn't it? The internal screen and the external. You can see this is like a montage bit, like you see him

and he's like, right, and you whoosh, and then you see him do all of these things. And then he comes back to him and he looks out the window and there's Fred. Like La La Land. Yes, very La La Land. Let's Ryan Gosling. Oh, shame. And more Fred Colen. Shame. Oh, I'd like to see. I'd like to Less Ryan Gosling. Oh yeah, shame. And more Fred Cailan. Shame.

Oh, I'd like to see, I'd like to see Ryan Gosling stop people from stealing the bridge. Good point. You know, I have never seen Ryan Gosling prevent the theft of a bridge in his life. Not even an opera house. Not even an opera house. And he's nominated for an Oscar. What the fuck? I know. I found the voice note of me talking about whatever it was so I'm gonna, you know, completely new format, just play that into the microphone and see what I said. I gave Echo a tripe stick and it's not very bad but it led to Jack Googling, tripe and apparently there were four different types of tripe, depending on the stomach, because it's stomach lining. And the worst thing ever is that you don't get much stomach for lining because it's too glandular. And glandular is the worst

adjective I've ever heard for a food and I wanted you to share my pain. I remember this. Glandular. Glandular. Glandular Tripe. There it is. All right. Glangela Tripe. What's the name? I stand by that very upset sounding voice note. I stand by Glangela Tripe. It's a bit new drag name. But wide sandwich.

Anyway. Glangela Tripe. Wide sandwich is just the least of healing drag names we've gone with yet. Right. Speaking of drag names, let's talk about characters. Moist one, Lipvig, excellent drag name. All right, good. Yes. He's back, he's bored. He's very bored. I really enjoy the way he's introduced Climbing the Drainpipe.

It's four pages before it's revealed that it's him. And I kind of forgot that because I've read this book so many times. I know reading it from like getting to that page that it's voice. But the book doesn't tell you and it's fairly easy to infer. Yeah, it's another one that gives Pyramid's vibes though, Tefic on his film. Oh yeah, and the climbing and the... He writes that kind of scene very well. I like the hint as well when he appears out of breath, and the slight hint that

there was a woman in his room had definitely swung it. Yes, definitely. It would definitely work, I think. Oh, 100%. But I like that there's a hint. But I think we know as a reader, there absolutely wouldn't be. Like, he's wifed up, he's a wife guy. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, he's kind of pretending wouldn't be. Like he's wifed up, he's a wife guy. Oh, absolutely.

Yeah, he's kind of pretending not to be. Yeah, he's keeping up the reputation of a rogue in certain areas. Yeah, but like, Fetanari knows immediately that he's been wifed. I really love that, like, he sits down with Fetanari and while he's waiting, he just starts moaning about his relationship to Fetanari, who does not seem like the kind of person you would start doing that to. But I think he's got so few people to talk to. It's not like he can talk to Stanley or Gladis about his relationship.

Yeah, the pigeons maybe. Yeah, he doesn't have many peers around. So instead he goes to someone who's above him and just like, well, we're sat here and we've got five minutes and you're not an idiot. So my wife for future wife. One of the bits I really liked on that scene, by the way, is the kind of description of how loud noises, especially in a place like Antmoor Pork, were kind of easily ignored, whereas some small sounds were nearby and suggested such things as stealth betrayed,

and so we're pressing and personal. Oh yeah, it was a very good moment. I'm also kind of enjoying that he's still annoyed about his lack of prominence in the Tanty Bugle. Yes. Like it's been quite, it's been long enough since the events of going post all that the post office kind of settled down and he's still bugged by that and I think it's a nice indication of his character like he's bored and he's frustrated and he's kind of clung onto this one. I didn't even get it there.

Absolutely. It's not that he wants to be like a famous criminal or this and the other. You know, maybe a little acknowledgement of how devious he'd been. Yeah. Yeah. You kind of come on, I'm smarter than these fuckers who just lamped three people and ended up hanging for it. I was much more interesting. It's almost like he wants to be caught just so someone can see how clever he is. Although he's been caught and reformed and what have you. But there's a hint of that. And there's a hint of, you know, now I can get caught doing the good thing.

Yeah. But at the same time Getting lockpicks stealing pencils the blackjack the blackjack. Yeah That one's a weird one. Yeah, but then again, I do get the vibe like it's not about him intending to use it It's just knowing he's got something that's he's not bad to have. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, he's got a bad thing Yeah, like walking around with like a tan bag. Yeah. Um, so Adora is only very briefly in this section as moist laments. He does. Um, he seemed a bit put out by her, her brief note. But if I received that from one

such as Adora, I would be fairly chuffed. I'd be delighted that she'd bothered to contact at all, to be honest. Yeah, I thought it was, you know, it showed life in it, success. Yeah. She's sharing things? I don't know. I didn't think it was as bad as he did. Obviously, I think he's a bit, he's about, as we, as he's mentioned several times in this section,

he's a talker. He's big on purple prose probably. Also, he's had quite a lot of time to build up missing her in his head, so anything less than like her physically being there was going to be a bit disappointing. But I like that she's introduced us. We're all reminded that she's just a little bit terrifying around the years and she's doing her legal deal and can you keep a secret and lean in and whisper so can so can I. And we get a little low king reference mentioned in that bit as well which is always just a delight for me as we know that low king. You're still there, you're still there. Go on, go on Rhys. Gladys, a delightful character to me.

Golem in a blue dress, liked that one. A matter of etiquette and thus with the addition of one extremely large a blue dress, liked that one. A matter of etiquette. And thus, with the addition of one extremely large cotton print dress, a Golem became female enough for Miss Macalariat. But then she picks it up and she starts spending time with the countergirls who accept her immediately and pass on their magazines to her. And you have this theoretically genderless species, but one of them starts embracing gender a bit and is immediately

accepted. I quite like the way it was worded. Oh, I don't think I highlighted it, but paraphrasing something like moist couldn't convince Miss Macclariot that the golems were a mail out of habit rather than fact or something like that. Yeah. rather than fact or something like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's sort of a nice parallel to the dwarfs in the species that doesn't do gender, although in a very different way, sort of starts gendering and has appears to have quite a nice time with it. Although as my sense, it's hard to imagine what would skin care tips would mean on a thousand

years old with eyes that glowed like holes into a furnace. And I feel that this month. I'm finally using eye cream. I just don't feel like it's doing anything to to stave off the four hour night's sleep. And that's why I wear a full face of makeup when we record. Vettinari. I love moist cold into his office, immediately sort of start saying, that's not my fault and he's guilty and he's sorry. And we get the line, Lord Vettinari lifted an eyebrow with the care of one who, having found a caterpillar in his salad, raises the rest of the lettuce. Nice.

That's a perfect simile metaphor description thing. It is. It is. Simile, I think. Yes. One of those. Very lovely. And a little bit of gaslighting about the spike pit.

Yeah. Very much appreciated. I've never experienced that. But Nari's got a load of nice little exchanges in this one, actually. He's on good form, I think I would say he's on the form. There's a great bit where um, drum not sort of suggesting, you know, we do still have the file on Albert Spangler and veterinary goes along rent of, oh, you mean I could manipulate him into the job in this very, very long thing. And he's like, I mean, I'm not I could, I don't need to.

And then has the there's more than one, just speaking of drum not who I love dearly, there's more than one way of racking a man drum not face up or face down my Lord. Thank you drum not I value your cultivated lack of imagination as you know, more drum rolls pencils. I will say we've mentioned it a couple of times already, but the psychological torture of the waiting coach. Oh yeah. I didn't realise, I think, when I was reading it, that the veterinarian was meant to be inside the coach either. I don't know if it was because if so, that's really impressive that he got anywhere with this lunch. Yeah.

I don't think I managed. I think he was thinking of it more as a coach sent for him than a coach that would have veterinarian side, because he's surprised when he gets there. But the way moist sort of mentally gets more and more indignant. And I relate to it because I've had like emails back and forth about bookstuff recently and there's been twice where I've been working on something else. I've got an email about bookstuff and it's like, that's fine. I will leave that until I finish the note. Absolutely can't ignore that for more than five minutes. Need to read it, look at it now and stop whatever else I'm doing. Yeah.

Yeah. That's my waiting coach. But the the indignance, the coachman was eating his lunch. It'll folding table up the chair on the pavement that is meal on a fault. It was a large pork pie and a bottle of beer. There was even a white tablecloth. I love that. I want to be a coachman

walking around with a full table service. It's I feel like it's always a pork pie and a bottle of beer in these situations as well, which makes sense. It's good lunch. It travels well. Always makes me really fancy a pork pie and a bottle of beer.

It's, um, yeah, it's a very famous five Ian. It is. You were latching of ginger ale, don't you? Mm-hmm. Yeah. I can't have either of pork pie or a bottle of beer. I'll have to go. I'll have the tin features and the lashings of ginger ale. Right. And I'll have the pork pie. You have to be in the pork pie. Perfect. All of this travels pretty well, actually.

Yeah. Yeah, that's great. As long as you don't shake up the ginger beer too much, we've learned that. And you bring a tin opener. Yeah. I can't make the pot noise with my cheek. No, I can't. All right. I've been a while since I've tried. Enjoy video listeners.

I'll switch Jenkins. I just want to mention briefly. We'll talk about him more next week. But I just love... Why do you say... I'm sorry spoilers. We'll talk about it next week. I don't know, because I'm an arse.

I try. I almost always edit out when you say that. I probably won't follow this time. I don't know. It's just this built in habitual thing. It's Twitter got to you. Twitter got to me a long time ago. Fordslash.gen. Sorry. An ally ago. Um, forward slash gin. Sorry. Una-living.

Oh, that's TikTok, yeah. Yeah, that's TikTok. Right, Owlswick Jenkins briefly mentioned in the section, um, waiting to be una-lived. Slash JK. Oh my God. Sorry. It's moist thinking about the trial and how we kind of almost felt bad for testifying because you need forged half penny stamps.

It broke your heart. Oh, it did. That bit maybe released out actually. Yeah. What kind of person takes all that trouble for half a penny? Exactly. And now? Mr. Bent.

Love Mr. Bent. I didn't think we'd manage an entire new flavour of horrible bureaucrat, and yet, well, horrible is not right, of alarming bureaucrat, and yet here we are. Here we are. How many slavers are there? Mr Bent in this section is like a really good example of perhaps, it's like masterful abilities to just create this really thorough, well-rounded character in just a few lines. Like, the description is he's introduced his feet soundless

on the marble or unusually large for such a dapper man. But the shoes, black and polished, mirror shiny were well made. Perhaps he wanted to show them off because he walked like a dressage horse, lifting each foot deliberately off the ground before setting it down. Apart from that incongruity, Mr. Bent had the air about him of someone who stands quietly in a cupboard when not in use. Oh fellow, we've had something almost like that haven't we? The um, oh was it the Dark Clark who you felt could fold away at the end of the day? Yes. Yeah, either the Dark Clark or our special console, I've forgotten which. One of those, we've definitely had a couple of characters that can be

folded and put in cupboards. Yes. Collapsible characters. That's the key. That's what we need for a modern, exciting age. His Nischlach and Kainvott syndrome is quite interesting. I'm more confident with that than I ever have been for a real German word. I like that he's just like straight away like, no, don't try and make, no, don't try and make me laugh. Come on. Makes a very good point. And don't try and make me laugh, sir. If I had no legs, would you try and make me run? I'm quite happy. Thank you. But he's kind of this unflappable exterior is kind of immediately you spot the chink in the armour which is gold. Yes. He's got the eye twitch, he's got the the unusually floral speech about gold and gold's such a good traditional thing to be weird about. That's really nice to see it pop up in a book.

And is the counting the insistence that the human mind is capable of being infallible and the power of numbers when he's it in his accounting room with his big swivelling desk. I love his big swivelling desk. It's a penopticon, yeah. Yes, accounting penopticon. Three is three, you cannot persuade it to be four even if you give it a really big kiss, which is nice. Like, I know who you are, I'm always for lip-fig lying as well because moist is the sort of

person who will give three a kiss to make it into four. But in that very rant, I think it was, um, a highlighted sentence, which to me, like, shows that he's not like as, you know, straight and narrow as you think, because he's going, you use words and I'm told you do it well, but words are soft and can be pummeled into different meanings via skilled tongue. Numbers are hard. And as he's saying that, the first thing I'm thinking of is gold is soft and can be pummeled into different things by a skilled tongue. Numbers are hard. And as he's saying that, the first thing I'm thinking of is gold is soft and can be bubbled into different things. Like, right away, your two things, numbers of gold, they don't go together. You think they do, but they don't.

Love that. I hadn't noticed that at all. And the imagery of the golds fully and shining off of his face as he's talking. And it's all very, I love it. That's beautiful. Yeah. The actual description of the Penobscundesk within that accounting room, most of the around me, of the producers. I was thinking Ron Swanson in Parks and Rec. But yes, you're right. The producers are small. Well, the room with all the accountants when

he's starting and I want to be a producer. Oh, and Miss Drapes, which I just love that. He's describing his desk and Miss Drapes, you know, puts the thing down and he says, thank you as you walked away. It's too busy to notice the expression that passed across a pale little face, but moisted, read a thousand words, probably written in her diary and never shown to anyone. Which if that's not the best description of someone having a really intense, unnoticed crush. Yeah. It's nice to know there's someone for everyone. It is. That's quite a nice trope to visit as well. The unrequited, probably, love by the

mousy, I'm going to say, unkindly. Yeah. No, but I can see mousy. Mousy of the odd and incredibly dedicated genius type. Yes. I like that trove. It's a fun trove. And then we have Topsy Lavish, Ney Turvy, who's another like really great immediate fully formed character with her desk mounted crossbows. Just as well, so he's fucking immediately formed, isn't it? Off she goes. I really enjoy though, as you mentioned, the episodes and colour of magic earlier, there's something I remember asking in like the first or second episode, which is, is it parody if you're just doing the thing? And I think here, yes, because Pratchett immediately kind of calls

himself out for doing it. Like this is a bit of a stock character, the feisty old lady, and so most immediately thinks to himself, yeah, Marguan feisty old lady, turkey neck, embarrassing sense of humour, gleeful pleasure and mild cruelty. I've got Ogg coded written in my notes. Oh yeah, definitely Ogg coded. The hardness here that comes with having to make your way in a, in this sector for so long,

with a difficult husband and awful in laws and Yeah, just It's fun and the I mean it's fun. It's terrifying is I like the upfrontness Well, I mean I started as his mistress and you know, it used to be civilized We take tea together and work out a schedule. Yeah. Yeah There's absolutely nothing tragic about the fact that her husband had a mistress. That's not sound for her. No.

Kept him busy. Got other things to do. Exactly. And I was like the hint of gin soaked about these sorts of old ladies as well. I don't bite, but the unspoken give me a minute to find my teeth and some gin. We'll see what happens. Yeah. Sufer. Who else have we got? We've got... We've got Hubert and his glupa.

Hubert and the glupa. Our very, very Hubert shaped Hubert. Yes. A proper Hubert is a real British sounding insult. What a Hubert. He's a proper Hubert. I'm going to start calling more people Hubert's haircut with the aid of shears and the spirit level that you could stand a cup and saucer on. Yes. Now he's, he's a slightly rarer trope of mad scientist, I would say.

The, the youngest. Just real, real. Now, he's he's the slightly rarer trope of mad scientist, I would say the the youngish just real really, really a lot more. Yeah. Yeah. The kind of if this was a cartoon swivel eye green bubbles bursting in the background, you know, Yeah, but it's fine. Everything's fine.

It's fine. This sort of, oh, can you explain it and And the way he's swells to, he's not shy. You get him onto the topic that he's ready to talk about and he swells up ready to, I keep wanting to say, expectorate. He's not spitting at them. He might try. He might do, yeah, to explain everything in great detail and demonstrate it, that everything being the glooper, which as it says in the author's note, was inspired by the Philips economic computer, which I attempted to learn enough about in detail to talk about on the podcast. And the more I read, the less I understood. So listeners, go down that rabbit hole for yourselves. Look it up. It is really fascinating.

Also, if you prefer a lighter foray, there's a good Michelin web sketch on a similar. Oh, is that? Yeah. Yeah. Along the lines of, have we tried just killing all the poor in the economic model? We can't do that. Well, obviously we can't, but just let's see what would happen. Excellent. And then quickly have a look at the lavish family again, we'll look at them more

than the time. Very old money, which immediately sets moist-minded scheming, because he's obviously had dealings with old money before. They are not at home to disappointment, sir. No. I like when he's looked them up in hooms-hoom. Yeah. No twerp spirit this time, but hooms-hoom.

A brigand for a father was something you get quiet, but a slave taking pirate for a great-great-grandfather was something to boast of over the port. I particularly like that, even when he's thinking about this, time turned the evil bastards into rogues. Rogue was a word with a twinkle in its eye and nothing to be ashamed of. And this is not long after Topsy's pointed out that he's a rogue. Oh, yes. Yeah. But she doesn't mind a rogue.

No, she doesn't mind a rogue. Which is fair enough. She loves a rogue. Loves a rogue because he's a Topsy. Yeah, no, he does. Poochie, by the way, one of the kids' names. Cosmo and Poochie. Yeah. The Poochie family is a prominent old money family in Florence.

Which I, I, I seem this is where this comes from. That's as many of these old Italian families are as quite an interesting rabbit hole to pull down. There are many interesting rabbit holes around, old money Italians, born with their little hands around each other's throats like true lavishes. But I do like that all the stuff with Moise getting into Vettanari's coach and Vettanari's coach waiting outside for him sets us up for him just leaping straight into Cosmo's coach at the end. Yeah. It's a full check-ups coach.

Like Climon says. Yes. Oh shit, not this one. Vettanari says, there's no rush. There's no rush. Oh, fuck it's Cosmo. And I just, I only want to point out Nobby and Angwer who deliver Mr. Fast but obviously, because I like that the continued rumour that Nobby is the watch's werewolf. Which was really... Because he's got a certificate. Which comes from the truth. It was William DeWerge's theory was that Nobby was the werewolf.

And apparently that's called, and I feel like Vime's an anguar of like encouraged that rumor. Yeah, definitely. And also Angua just sort of taking a quietly bringing back one of the duck toys that she'd taken. Absolutely. That was a delightful little moment. Have we got Mr. Fusspot as a character here? I didn't list him as a character, I'm sorry. Lovely little moment. Have we got Mr. Fusspot as a character here? I didn't list him as a character, I'm sorry. Lovely little dog.

He's a lovely little dog. He's part spoonhound. And I think spoonhound might have been mentioned in Discworld before. I feel like I have a silly spoonhound, something like that, you know what I mean? Yeah. But no, now I think maybe I'm thinking of something else and maybe I'm getting that bit mixed up with Nashor from the Dennis and Manus comics. You just went to a place, didn't you? I did. else and maybe I'm getting that bit mixed up with Nashia from the Dennis Mendes comics.

You just went to a place, didn't you? I did and I'm so sorry. I'm very tired. But listen, I need an excuse to talk about my new favourite Wikipedia list. You know I love a good Wikipedia list. List of wealthiest animals. Incredible. Perfect. Yeah, I won't get too far into it. Obviously, I'll just link it instead. But a couple of sentences that came from that or a brief click through. Incredible. Perfect. Yeah, I won't get too far into it. Obviously, I'll just link it instead. But a couple of sentences that came from that or a brief click through. Toby Rimes, brackets sometimes spelled Toby Rimes, is a mythical poodle with an estimated net worth of $92 million.

Excellent. Why won't I be a mythical poodle with an estimated net worth of $92 million? I know, for fuck's sake. And also, I just wanted to mention that quite a famous case of dog inheritance happened a month before this book was published. In a lovely coincidence, there are quite a few historical cases of this, but I'd say this one's pretty on the nose. Leona Helmsley, who was like a whole fucking character in herself, by the way, she was like this.

She went to prison for tax evasion at one point. When she died, she ordered that her mausoleum be washed or steam cleaned at least once a year. And she left like millions aside, just for that, she ate her dirt. Anyway, but she left her dog Trouble, who was a white Maltese, $12 million, which was the bulk of her estate. A judge later knocked that down to $2 million, which I think is tri-deck. And Trouble, who had faced 20 to 30 death and kidnappings threats, also retained a full-time security guard according to news reports. And Trouble died in 2011, several years later, at the age of 12. JLK Oh.

JLK Yeah. JLK It's good how Trouble... JLK But yeah, I just thought that, like, the whole thing about, like, facing death threats, having a security guard, like, being part of this really objectionable family is incredibly on the nose and it happened after Pratchett had written this book. It's ridiculous. Pratchett is profit. Obviously not our main profit.

That's Taylor Swift, but locations. Yeah. We go to a few places. I mean, we're in Antmoorpork, obviously, but there's a few places in Antmoorpork. The Royal Bank of Antmoorpork. Yes, a fantastic bit of architectural description. Yes. The architect at least knew how to design a decent column and also went to stop.

Yes. He'd set his face like flint against any prospect of cherubs, although above the column was a high-minded freeze showing something allegorical involving maidens and urns. An angry pigeon looked down at moist from a stony bosom. That was very nearly my quote. But I love the reveal that it wasn't like a temple for a god, it was a king built it in case a god would show up.

A nesting fox! A nesting bird box. I know. We should try that. Build a little, well, you know, it's like a huge version of some of the stuff we saw in small gods building a little care to a tiny god that then moves in, but this was deliberate. Yeah. And yeah, maybe we should build a tiny temple and see if a god moves in.

Francine, remember our rule about not interfering with the causal nature of reality. I feel like that counts as interfering with the causal nature of reality. You're quite right and you were right to say so. This is why we have safe working procedures. You should know this. You have something to do with health and safety in your life. Also the fornication joke, it's a cheap joke, but it's a massive chuckle out of me. I didn't know fornication came to the word from Arch. So we've all learned something

today. Haven't we just? We'll get some more resimology later. The Royal Men and Sheds, common men of Thurks, apparently, I made the same joke twice. I'm nothing if not consistent. I like the same joke twice because each diabet reminds me of our favourite book of rogues. Speaking of rogues, they're everywhere. It was one of my ears. Stop eating my boots. Sorry, I suppose it's not a rogues. It was a cavern. Moist was pleased about that at least. A mint should be lit by flames. Yeah, what I wanted to do and had time is to look into some various mints and see if it's based off any in reality. A mint should be lit by flames. What?

Why not? He sounds very confident about it. Like this is a thing that like exists in a trope, and I don't think I know anything about mints. I don't know enough about mints to have an opinion on whether or not they should be lit by flames as well. I suppose there should be something old and also grand feeling about it. It should feel cavernous and a bit dark and a bit mysterious. I think there's a mystique around Mintz. It's really hard to say Mintz. Why are they talking about Mintz toby for breath mints. I like the description of that building being like the ugliest building without an architectural

award or something. Very pretty to this. I found a nice article on the history of the Royal Mint. France, do you remember a rule about doing research during the episode? Oh yeah, right. It sounded much more chastising than I actually meant it to. research during the episode. During what? Oh yeah, right, yeah. Fine. It sounded much more chastising than I actually meant it to. Oh that's all right, I didn't really pick it up.

Good. The shed description is wonderful, hanging around every little corner and access to by unsafe ladders. And the small village of sheds on the floor. Love sheds. Pratchett loves a shed. He does love a shed. They come up as a theme again and again. Yeah, we'll come back to sheds. Yeah, I won't be putting them in

helicopter and line cloth watch or anything. But we're not shedding sheds. Don't fear. But we do love a moment. Hold on. Hold on. A shed in trust, you could say. All right, that's me done. Let's go.

I'm going to go. Thank you for listening to this episode. I can't see in your home. Fuck. That's just what I've been threatening at work all night. I can't do that if I'm here. Right, that's it. I quit.

You're here voluntarily. Ah, fuck. This is a hobby. I would like to reassure listeners that I am in no way forcing Francine to make this podcast. Not so easy to notice. You just start holding up little help me signs when I'm not paying attention while we're recording. How do you know I haven't been?

It's not like you've ever watched the videos. No, but I am looking at you. Yeah. Well, you're not paying attention. I'm always paying attention. That's true. You are. You're very dedicated. My eyes are just watering today. Um, windy in there, is it? Wimpy. Right. God, we are making a, you have to edit this. No, I don't. I'm very tired. It's going out as it goes. All right, awesome. Uh, yeah. The men of the Sheds, uh, with a great collection of names, Alf, young

Alf, Gaba, boy, Charlie, King Henry. Tag yourself. I'm Gaba. I'm King Henry. That's fair. How many wives do you have? Too many and never enough. No.

I found a picture of the Royal Mint, which I think fits the description, although possibly not from all angles. And there are so many different buildings when I Google this, I'm confused as to what's what. Excellent. Well then, well, that's what we're looking for. Yeah. I don't know about the cavern. I can't go any further down this rabbit hole in case it's not lit by torches. And you're not meant to be researching while we're recording.

That's true. But in my my defence the tab was already open. Yeah, that's fair. I do enjoy this idea of the men having to make their own wages and then I think about it for one second and my head starts to hurt. I was fucking dreadful though, just... I'm going to apologise to listeners now that I'm not going to go too deeply into a lot of the financial stuff of this book. Partly because I don't think it's really the point as much as other fun things are and be because when I start thinking about certain things too

much my head hurts. It's not quite quantum physics level, but... I'm surprised you're the one apologizing as I never expected you to try and look into the financial side of things. Whereas I used to write about this shit a fair bit and I'm still not going to. It's just when I start thinking... It's not like I'm not capable of understanding complex maths. It's just... It's up to the concept of money. It's just when I start, it's not like I'm not capable of understanding complex math. It's if I start thinking about the concept of money. It is upsetting. Yeah. It absolutely is. And I fully agree. What we can look at maybe is fun things like little coins.

Yes, we can. Elim's. That's another thing I should have put on my list of things to talk about. I hate girl math as a concept on the TikToks. Just a... I kind of didn't mind girl dinner until it was all just disordered eating. But yeah, now I hate girl math. Stop it. Stop. Yeah, stop trying to make it look stupid. Yeah. Yeah. I'm literally not a girl, but I am quite good at math. Anyway, big cabbage.

What of it? I just really enjoy again, it's the practically doing the run on things and people travel miles to see this wonder, this big cabbage and they go inside its concrete imperial and peer out through the windows and buy cabbage with bookmarks, cabbage, cabbage, cabbage shirts, Captain Cabbage Dolls musical boxes carefully crafted from Kulrabi and cauliflower that played the cabbage-y to song. Cabbage Jam, KLA, and green cigars made from a newly developed species of cabbage and rolled on the thighs of local maidens presumably because they liked it.

Geryl- Um, was that a I missed, by the way, or just a... It's a thing about cigars being rolled on maiden's thighs. Is that a thing? Yeah. Okay. I don't think it's like an actual thing that happens, but it is a thing that sort of gets wistfully talked about. I see, I see, I see.

Oh, like a new ball of young Cuban women. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, got it, got it. Yeah. There is probably an origin for the trope somewhere, but I'm not going to dive into that right now. Okay. I just, I love how much we talk about

on the podcast about trope ratchet as a craftsman, as a cabbage, as a craftsman, as an artist. And he was, and he was incredible writer, and he was also incredibly funny and a master of humor. And sometimes there's just a really dumb list of cabbage things that was obviously really fun to write. Just drops it in there. Bald as brassica.

Oh, Francine! I forget how much of pun when you're tired. It's the last bit of my brain to stay alight. I have a horrible feeling my last words are going to be a pun. And I'm putting them on your gravestones. I'm joking. You'll outlive me. I believe you'll find a way to do it from beyond the grave. I will. All right, shall we take a look?

I love the idea of this, this like this themed village town anyway. Yeah, no, I love the fact that like we've been talking about the cabbage planes and the, you know, the cabbage region of Stolec, whatever, through, through all of the discworld books and he's just gone fucking full steam ahead really on this one. He's just like right fucking cabbages finally I'm gonna put all these stupid little things I've been like saving up while we're talking about the cabbages shooting out of the ground and powering them male coach. And we get KLA right from the beginning, right? All of these cabbage planes. I just love it. I think one of the first in the world where small children can burst into tears. I'm pretty sure one of the first back when we used to do joke adverts on the podcast,

which we haven't done for a while. I ran out of ideas really quickly, but like one of the first ones we did was like a cabbage subscription box. That sounds right. Yeah. I ran out of ideas really quickly, but like one of the first ones we did was like a cabbage subscription box. That sounds right, yeah. Yeah. I literally forgot about that entirely. Oh no. Terrible. I would like, yeah, I wonder if these kind of, these themed kind of type of towns to sound American-y, don't they? I do think it's more of an American thing.

Yeah, just because there's more room. Yeah. I think Americans are particularly prone to this kind of thing, but there's a lot more small town really in the middle of nowhere. So it helps to have a theme. It's like going out of your way to see the biggest ball of twine in Minnesota. Yeah, which I always do. And it really is out of my way on the way to work.

I'll tell you that. Yeah. That's when you've really got to stop your commute to Minnesota. It's like that tweet about, what is it, that drill tweet I think about budgeting. How do I become less late for work? Spend less time on makeup, get a better car, stop visiting the Minnesota ball of twine. Somebody goes, yeah, no, stop visiting the Minnesota Bowl of Twine. No. Never. Anyway, sorry, you've been trying to call a break for the last five minutes,

and I've just talked about cavities, so let's go do that. No, it's fine. I've greatly enjoyed you talking about cavities. Thank you. See you shortly. All right, little bits we liked. We're going to start with some horn swoggling. Please tell me about horn swoggling. I'm so excited after your screenshot. All the ways to January, there are people who've been duped, fooled,

swindled and cheated by that face. The only thing most hadn't done was horn swoggle and that was only because he hadn't found out how to. So I wanted to find the etymology of horn swoggle and I failed. In Googling, I do feel like I need to read this list out. Obviously Google comes up with like suggested searches based on what you, so I was looking up

Hornswoggle etymology. Google suggested to me this list. What is a Scallywag? What does the cattywampus mean? When was the word pillow invented? What's another word for Hornswoggle? What is flimflam? What is bumfuzzle? Is flibbity give it an insult? Side note, flibbity gibbit or flibbity give it? I prefer

flibbity give it personally. Okay. What is a bum fuzzle word? What does Scallywagamene? What is a Rapscallian? What is a Dory? Found poetry. Absolutely found poetry. So based on my research, we don't really know the origins. Is that your research? Based on my research, which was a bit bum-fuzzling, we don't really know the origins of Hornswoggle. I don't mean I personally don't know. I mean, like the origins aren't really known. It appears to originate this from Merriam-Webster in the Southern US in the early 19th century. The earliest known Brissum record comes from an 1829 issue of the Virginia literary magazine in its glossary of Americanisms. Just for some more fan poetry.

What's it mean? Well, it's another word for con. Oh, okay, right. It is just another word for con. Okay. And just a line from the Miriam Webster description that I loved, is, Oddness matches nicely with other 19th century Americanisms, such as Soc-Dolliger, Obsquatchelate, Callithump, Slum-Gullion and Skidaddle.

Skidaddle. Skidaddle. Slum-Gullion is something we've talked about on the podcast before. Although the origins of Hornswoggle aren't known, Peter Watts in A Dictionary of the Old West, published in 1994, suggests that it comes from a cow shaking its head to try and get free of a lasso. However, there isn't much risk and evidence of the word horn swoggle being used in relation to cows. So this might just be conjecture based on the horn part. Yeah, I like it either way. Yes. So new campaign, use horn swoggle more in everyday life. The word, I'm not going

to become a con man. Okay, good. Good. to become a con man. Okay, good. Good. Haven't got time. Fantastic. I love this so much. Brings me joy. What about you? What did you like? I liked the idea of a postbox fanatary. Oh yeah, this was that escalating swallowed the spider to catch the fly.

So we were a bit too creative in our thinking. We encouraged Mongooses to bring the posting boxes to keep down the snakes. Lord Veteranari said nothing, which admittedly we introduced into the posting boxes to reduce the numbers of toads. Lord Veteranari repeated himself, which it's true, Starved Put in the posting boxes to keep down the snails. Lord Vennari remained unvocal. These, I must in fairness point out, got into the boxes of their own accord in order to eat the glue on the stamps, said moist and glad that he was beginning to burp. Now we know how one gets from snail to mongoose. A question that's played to me for many years. Absolutely. There was a story in October of last year that I absolutely loved and has big this vibes.

It's been ages since I've had to google whole music. That's not true. It's just been a month since we've done the podcast. Oh, here it is. Determined snails eating village as male. Snails are nibbling on male in a postbox in Luton, leaving marks on envelopes. Royal Mail says the mollusks are being removed daily but are determined.

And there's a sign on the postbox. This is in Devon, by the way, Luton. Dear customer, we wanted to inform you that snails seem to enjoy making a home in this post box, needing the glue that holds the envelope in shape. We removed the snails daily, but they are very determined in return. It is our business policy not to exterminate them with pellets or by other means. Whilst you are very welcome to continue using this post box, we wanted to mention that your letter of mine may not arrive without some nibble marks around the edges.

I kind of enjoy the idea that they've just conceded the territory to the snails. Well, yeah, residents can post their mail as Village Post Office, which has not yet been visited by snails. And in Cornwall, a village decided to get around the issue by just sealing up the post box. But as far as we know, no mongooses have been released into the British postal system. Not yet. Give us system. Not yet. Give us time. Not yet. We should probably actually, there's a bit of follow-up.

The fucking postal story, post office story has been evolving at a rapid rate, which let's not go into it on party time, but I'll link to something else, follow-up, because we did talk about it very briefly, didn't we? And the scandals surrounding the British Post office. Yes. Anyway, that is not a little thing we like. What's a little thing we like? Self-inflicted offence.

My day. Moistarts. After the menageries, moistarts apologising for the lovers stamp. The artist didn't realise what he was sketching. And Vesinari says it's fine. The offending affair can only be seen in any detail with quite a large magnifying glass. And so the offence, if such it be, is largely self-inflicted. Yes. And I like the idea of not pervs, just people who want to be offended,

taking the time to get a hold of this stamp and getting out their large magnifying glass so that they can see the offending thing and be offended. It's definitely a thing. That's very... That's the very typical of the kind of small-minded person that Fracture likes to parody, isn't it? Well, yeah, and then a few pages later, we get Mrs. Stresser-Partley of the campaign for equal heights getting annoyed at moist for not hiring enough dwarfs. Yes. And he mentally corrects himself. It's not reach out, it's reach down, Miss Partley.

Tutt, tutt. And it is, it's a bit like the, the League of Temperance and it's not the vampires themselves. It's the, the not vampires you've got very into making, being overly inclusive about it. Yeah. Yeah. The Randall Parallels. round-world. Definitely not dwarf name. Yes, I don't think Ms. Estressor Partley is a dwarf.

Speaking of being offended, page 69 in my copy. Nice. Just briefly, I want to mention that Topsy Lavish mentions the undertaking and which the grand plans that Vettinari has for the city, underground streets and new docks. And a lot of this is inspired by the device found at the end of DUD. So I like that that's not become the plot of the next story, but it is just lingering in the background of Angkor Mawpork now is that we have this thing. Yeah. And recent like financial woes due to all the Coom Valley stuff I mentioned as

well, wasn't it? Like everything's staying very on time line at the moment. It's on time. But it's also just really nice for the world building to be so subtle, like Ant Moorport was grown into more industrial revolution than the like medieval fantasy thing it was at the start. And so we get things like this, you don't necessarily have to have a whole book about how the city has changed. Instead, you get, yeah, no, this is just part of the fabric of it. It's such a great worldbuilding thing. Yeah. I like the the undertaking is a cool industrial revolution name, but also has

very slight great leap forward vibes to it. Yeah, a little bit. The undertaking. Well, I liked the focus on green as a colour of wealth. I just, I love a little focus on a colour. You know, I got very into red during, oh, both Hogfather and Monstrous Regiment, I think it was particularly Monstrous Regiment, Jack from very into red for a little while. But yeah, Moist mentioning that ever since he was small, a sage green leather desktop had been wealth.

To moist, red leather, that was for parlor the news and a water bees. Sage green meant that you'd got there and that your ancestors had got there too. And then he comes up to the desk and probably the last remaining tree of some rare exotic species had been hewn to make the Germans desk, which was an object of desire and big enough to bury people in. It gleamed a deep, deep green and spoke of power and probity. Love it. And, and, and yeah, I mean, green as a colour of wealth is obviously a thing. It's kind of, you get the kind of faded, like sage green, old money stuff,

British racing green, very that kind of thing. You also get, this is straight from Wikipedia, I'm afraid, but during post-classical and early modern Europe, green was the colour commonly associated with wealth, merchants, bankers and the gentry, while red was reserved for the nobility, interestingly enough. So that's the reason that the benches in the House of Commons are green, while those in the House of Lords are red. So says this one paragraph from Wikipedia and who am I to do something like click through to the source? When I only have five minutes for the episode. We do love a theme.

We do love a theme. We love a theme and a coloured theme is easy to spot. I love like the dark greens and stuff. One of my favourite colour families. And I do love the idea of like a worn sage green leather desk. Oh, God, yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I'd be so stressed if I had a green. That suits me. There's going to be one.

But you know how your skin tone just kind of changes that little bit as you're getting older? Yeah, the colours that you see, you don't so much anymore. And I found quite a lot of colours that do see me again. I mean, I know I'm almost always wearing black, but sometimes I wear colors. And I need to find a green. I found like bright reds like in clothing, don't see me the way they used to. We used to variance my bright reds. I can still do a red lip, but I can't do a bright red outfit. We've gone off topic again, Francine. Let's talk about the book, Making Money.

Yeah, we were at least talking about one colour. Yes, that is true. We were talking about a colour. So close. That's a fruit. Yes, I am a bit fruity. On to the big stuff. And I want to talk about this idea of revisiting a character after the win. And making money isn't the first disco book to revisit a character after the win. Making money isn't the first Discord book to revisit a character, obviously, but I feel like it's revisiting Mois von Lippwig is fairly unique.

Like going back to the watch and sandvines, that makes sense. There's always something going on. Like it's a big city, there's plenty of crime. You're a place for us. Yeah, it's a procedural. It's an episodical, I mean, not like a movie. Yeah. And the witches, they're just the kind of people things happen to. So obviously you're going to go back to them and see the things happening to them.

Moist and going postal, he has had his big victory. He has gone from about to be hanged as Albert Spangler to dancing in his gold suit on top of the world, having saved the post office. And I love revisiting this character and where he goes from that and why it starts with his frustration and his boredom. Because I spoke back in going postal about how I felt William DeWerd was a bit of a proto-moist von Litfig. Yeah. But the thing is with William DeWerd, if you look at the truth, once he has the paper up and running,

he's kind of done. So we see him again, we see Sakurisa, Cripslock again. JLM- He's found the role he was born for. CK- Yeah. They don't become point of view characters again because they've got their place and that's running. That's not to say that Pratchett couldn't have revisited and written another really compelling book set around the newspaper opposite boxes. JLM- No, of course. CK- But yeah, it doesn't work with Moist to just leave him on top of the world because he likes to move

around and tap dance in his gold suit. And I love the idea of revisiting the frustration, the constraints, the bureaucracy. Going back to a character after they've had a big win is a really fascinating way to tell a story because some can settle and some absolutely can't and obviously Moist is in the latter camp. Yeah, it's something Pratchett's done like quite a lot, not to this extent, but we've talked about almost from the beginning how it's good that Pratchett doesn't have them walking off into the sunset. He's always like, and then what? And that's why he's always got three endings. Yes, and they're always really good endings.

And this time he made it into a book. Yeah, this is almost an entire Rappelock that then turns into a Z. Yeah. This is almost an entire epilogue that then turns into a zeppelogue could have been an email. So you get these great moments. And again, it's veterinary being really good at being veterinary. And moist not being in troubles. He says, oh, you rise each morning at 8 and you're at your desk at 30 minutes past. You've turned the post office from a calamity into a smooth running machine.

You pay your taxes, a little bird tells me your tip to be next year's chairman of the merchant's guild. Well done, Mr Lipvig. Any sort of response? Absolutely. You said chairman of the merchant's guild, although there was something wrong with it. Is it? Yeah. No. Keeps going. He's, I shall get a very nearly gold on. I shall get a very nearly gold sash. He shall get a very nearly gold sash. Did you hear that drum nod? He's so mean. I love also that drum nod in this scene

serves the purpose of effectively being the white cat. He's stroking on his lap if it was a bit more villainous. Oh, God. That tumbling gets harder that imagery. Oh, God. No. Never mind. But yes, absolutely. Like, yeah. And we've seen the world build out around what most has done with the post

office. So you have stamps becoming de facto currency, which makes sense. It's it's worth a penny. So it's it becomes a penny. Yeah. These are the things I don't like to think about too much in case I have existential crises. Yeah, I think this probably did something I should look into for next week, but I'm pretty sure this did happen to an extent. Yeah, no, I mean, there were things like sending stamps in exchange for things. Yeah, you used it, yeah, send stamps in to get, yeah, definitely. Yeah, that's a real thing. And this just this frustration of the humdrum, the post office

wasn't going places anymore, it had gone, it had arrived. And all these places require staff and rotors. It's really interesting to see it from that perspective as well, because right at the beginning of this, but right at the beginning of the book, he's talking about how it's like an overturned e-hype and the hum of activity. And you think back to how it was described in the flashbacks and the hallucinations during going coastal. You should have seen it, sir. Yeah, you should have seen it, sir. And now he's seen it. And he's like, okay, seen it now. Now what?

Now what? Next. He's one of those. We'll try. Some people are content waking up and looking at the same beautiful view every morning. And some people are constantly going for the horizon. content waking up and looking at the same beautiful view every morning and some people are constantly going for the horizon. Yes. And Moist wants to bite the horizon just like Boris. Bite the horizon!

Yeah. And now he's looking for a new horizon to bite and he might have bitten off more than he can chew. Oh, I know. Next week. Sorry, that would have been a really good ending, but you haven't spoken much, so... You're just doing both parts of this conversation. That would have been a really good ending, but you haven't spoken much. So... You're just doing both parts of this conversation. I really appreciate it.

Francine, say words. What do you think? What do I think, Joanna? That's a really good question. Well, I quite like being the kind of... You know me in corporate nonsense, Joanna. Oh, I know you in corporate nonsense. You know me in corporate nonsense. And I'm going to try and talk about this with a smile on my face. But corporate cheeriness. Corporate cheeriness, the kind of manic corporate cheeriness that can be embodied in EG and mug, which I think is just the most wonderful avatar of corporate nonsense on which to project one's ire.

I have never, like, not related to a character personally, but seen a character and thought, hey, that's a Francine moment, that when he sits down with his, you don't have to be mad to work here, mug. Adds a comma and then stares desultorily at the, and furiously at the sad corporate mug. He was a responsible authority, and people could use terms like core values at him with impunity. Horrific.

Horrific. And he started on the district office's weekly reports. After that, the accident and medical committee sprawled its acres of words, occasionally moist glanced at the cup. And it's just this, I really, really love it as this physical, the physical embodiment of what he absolutely hates here, which is just, ah, just the real shallow core for a fucking attitude. And well, the thing is, what he's doing is important.

Yeah. It doesn't need to be done. And he's trying to delegate it and the stuff and the other, but there's this unbearable skin on top of it that is just making it even less tolerable over the long term. And then I really like how it's kind of immediate, not immediately, but through this section, then contrasted or maybe complimented by maybe like complimentary opposites, this slick, old, big money corporateness, corporateness, corporatality, no, Corporanus. Big, the financial sector and it's written and it's it's Lutters green desks and it's Mr. Bent walking around and checking everything and this completely completely different flavour of a lot more sinister corporate vibes as opposed to the kind of the post office as a more civil servant. You know, you don't have to be mad here to

work here, but it helps. Don't take a bite out of the sandwich I left in the fridge. It is a massive aggressive post-it note. I think if you think about Moistur's boss in these two scenarios, if you think about Moistur's boss in post office, then Moistur's potential chairman boss, whatever, in the role bank, when Moist is fed up with his work in the post office, he tries to wander around and chat to people

and he gets in people's way. And I think we've all kind of had, or a lot of us have experienced bosses like that, where they mean well and they're obviously bored, but you don't have time to talk to them because you're trying to do their job and it's awkward. Yeah, but yeah, I will spend five minutes explaining this to you because you are my boss but oh, can you not go out and have another meeting somewhere? Yeah, it's the fun Thai boss thing.

Definitely girls can. And that's why people don't want to talk to him whereas in the banking situation he could try and walk around and talk to people about their jobs and they won't talk to him. Not because it's annoying, but because it's secret and he doesn't need to have anything to do with it. And why should he bother to ask? And hush, we're in the presence of money. Loretta If you think back to the beginning of going postal, there was a lot of secrecy as well. But it was a very small secrecy. It was two people who were keeping the secrets of their building because this was their little thing. And Moist came in

and even though it took him a little while to kind of finagle, finagle, finagle all of the secrets, he was immediately in charge and on top and more charismatic and had the upper hand on everybody. Whereas here, he is in real danger of being enveloped by this quiet golden green environment and the like terrifyingly competent Mr. Bent. There's nowhere for him to tap dance. There is nowhere for him to tap dance. There is nowhere for him to tap dance. And Mr Bent I think would not enjoy it if he tried. Yeah.

That's not to say he won't still find somewhere. Yeah. In fact, Mr Bent specifically moves very quietly. But beautifully, like a dressage horse. Like a dressage horse. Right. You know what I was trying to say there and hopefully our listeners did as well because I'm not sure I made many sentences.

Well, I think we'll find out next week when we cover chapters four through seven of Making Money, if Moise does indeed find somewhere to tap dance and if Mr. Bent becomes a goat. Before we run away though, dear listeners, Francine, do you have an obscure reference for me or for me? Oh, I do. I was just about to panic as he was saying, Francine, do you have? I was like, wait, what? I mean, I do have one. Oh, no. Okay, so, my spun-lit beg. As we talked about right at the beginning, love a full circle, by the way, was disappointed, remains disappointed. And the sparse reporting of his execution.

Lysa Yes. Gail We talked about hanging ballads before, I think, for the last continent. And this is strongly related. So like the round world equivalent, I think, of the Tanty Bugle would be the kind of ballad and scaffold speeches as they were called section in a broadside, which is like an old Teploid equivalent. Glasgow University has a short history of these and a few examples uploaded, so I'll link to those. But here's a short extract from an April 1788 edition. On Wednesday last, six malefactors were executed here. Francis Turner, one of these unhappy men, whose real

name was John Hunt, addressed the crowd of spectators and monishing them to beware by his sad fate and avoid the practices which led him to this untimely end. Looking round upon the crowd, he said, I see two or three, and by the way, I've been avoiding saying standing, but I'm going to just for this one. Standing around the gallows who are no left deserving of the halter than myself. I wish my death may reform their ways. Looking on the other side, he saw a great number of boys to whom he spoke to this effect. You young ones let me exhort you to avail yourselves of the opportunity now afforded of learning your duty by the means of Sunday schools. Had I been early taught this important lesson, keep holy the Sabbath day, you would not see me in this distress. But when I was

a lad, Sunday schools were not thought of. We suffered, we were suffered to pass the Lord's day at ball, and worse to versions. The day appointed for the worship of God was devoted to the service of the devil and thus we left all sense of the service due to our Creator. From a use of prology I was led to a connection with smugglers and from smuggling I advanced to horse stealing and you see that the end of these things is death, a shameful, ignomonious death. May my shame be found profitable to you and may the Lord have mercy on my guilty soul." Loretta Incredible.

Sarah Interestingly, and not surprisingly, I think after having heard that, quite a lot of these were probably, if not entirely made up, heavily embellished and given extra moral paragraphs by the editors of these sheets, because that's what the public like to read possibly or what the editors liked. And sometimes you could see that the same speeches were pretty much coffee and pasted over a couple of months or in different regions or something like that. And it's all very cool. Complete tandem, by the way. I'm going to also link to a lament for a hangman, which was uploaded to the same section. And that's just interesting. And I think for you listening is all into a reading map.

Delightful. Also, ball and worst diversions is a phrase that I'm going to make my entire personality. We spent the Lord's Day at ball and worse divergence, eating wide sandwiches and glandular tripe. Gery All right, well that's the worst thing we've ever said in the podcast. So on that note, thank you very much for listening to this episode of The True Shell, make you fret. As I've already mentioned, we'll be back next

week with part two of Making Money, covering chapters four through seven, inclusive front scene. Until then... How many years ago was it? At least two years ago. Never going to let it die. Until next time, dear listener, you can join our Discord link down below. Follow us on Instagram at the true show Makekey Fright on Twitter and Blue Sky at Makekey FrightPod on Facebook at the true show Makekey Fright. Join our subreddit r slash tt sm y f. Email us your thoughts, queries, castles, snacks and tripe at the true show Makekey, you can go to patreon.com forward slash the

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