The Truth Shall Make Ye Fret - 135: Making Money Pt. 3 (Encustarded Fate)

Episode Date: February 19, 2024

The Truth Shall Make Ye Fret is a podcast in which your hosts, Joanna Hagan and Francine Carrel, read and recap every book from Sir Terry Pratchett’s Discworld series in chronological order. This week, Part 3 of our recap of “Making Money”. Jelly! Custard! That weird soggy sponge layer!Find us on the internet:Twitter: @MakeYeFretPodInstagram: @TheTruthShallMakeYeFretFacebook: @TheTruthShallMakeYeFretEmail: [e-mail]: www.patreon.com/thetruthshallmakeyefretDiscord: https://discord.gg/29wMyuDHGP Want to follow your hosts and their internet doings? Follow Joanna on twitter @joannahagan and follow Francine @francibambi Things we blathered on about:Amelia Earhart mystery gets new wrinkle after plane-shaped object found by sub - The Independent How I Fell for an Amazon Scam Call and Handed Over $50,000 - The CutGregg Wallace and the celebrities who have overshared their daily routines - BBC Newsbuttery biscuit base - YouTube Elephant and Key - streetsofsalem I made my version of Splot, from Making Money - r/discworld Hamilton: Satisfied - YouTubeMusic: Chris Collins, indiemusicbox.com 

Well that's what you really need from life isn't it? Not my day like that makes an amusing honking noise. I'm very excited about the Saturday night I've got this weekend. Oh what are you doing? I'm babysitting my nephew which on the surface is very exciting but we're going to watch Gladiators and eat pizza. Oh no it's just very nice. I know it feels so close to my childhood that I'm going to be hit very hard with some nostalgia watching Gladiators and eating pizza. Oh, that's so nice.

Jammies and eating on the sofa? Probably not the sofa because my sister scares me. Her house is very clean. Oh, right. Sorry. I thought he was staying with you. Oh, no, no. I'm going to have. I thought you were going to say something like probably not the sofa because I don't want food on it. I was like, what? Yeah, no, I'm going to her. I thought you were going to say something like probably not the sofa because I don't want food on it. It was like, what? Yeah, no, I am a food on the sofa.

We used to get lost in your old sofa. Three days once. Is that a really rare heart? Did I hear something about her being found? I like obviously not alive and well, but. Yeah, no, she turned up. But I'm sure I had something that they worked out where she was or why I do it. I have totally missed this, but I have not engaged in any pop culture past about 2005 for the last week.

So, uh, Oh, well, to catch you up on the very few bits I've been aware of, Yeah. A financial advice columnist got scammed out $50,000. Oh, that I saw. I have had a few brief Twitter strolls. She got scammed out of $50,000 and like handed it over in a shoebox to someone she thought was an FBI agent. Yeah. And it turns out that she's very rich and out of touch kind

of that kind of person. Which is who you really want to take financial advice from? It's the only kind of person I take financial advice from, which is why I'm ruined, but from these three shoe boxes, which will be my salvation as of tomorrow. But what else? Everyone hated Greg Wallace for a day or two, because he did an out of touch, wanky interview. Yeah, that one I saw that was last week. I've hated Greg Wallace for ages.

I think everyone's like getting on the train, but I did read the interview and it was hilarious. Oh, see, I'm going to take the contrarie way which is I've never particularly hated him and that wasn't any more wonky than any other celebrity interview I've seen. I think that massively got overblown. It did read like a comedy piece especially in the year. Oh it absolutely did but so does it. I'm a bit of a historian so I play civilisation for three hours. I know but so do they all, don't they? Oh no, they do all read like comedy, but I thought I was reading a parody piece at first. I think it might have hit a bit harder because like he's got the geezer kind of

provided thing going on. Yeah, there is that. Yeah, whereas if that had come from like... Quintet Faltrow. Quintet Faltrow is too low hanging fruit, but yeah, that kind of person. Yeah. To be fair, my hatred of Greg Wallace is just I tend to very quickly form either a strong like or dislike to anyone who hosts some kind of competition cooking show. Oh, yeah.

See, I think my like bias towards him slightly might be because I used to love Masterchef. I like Masterchef. I just don't like him on it. About the other fella. I don't mind the other fella. Was he called Australian fella? John Turide. Yeah, he was all right.

I prefer the Australian Masterchef actually, released the early seasons of it. I really love Australian Masterchef. Fuck. I've got a buttery biscuit base in my head now. How has that not come up on Twitter during this? I'm pretty sure it must have done somewhere. Oh, it must have done. Oh, we have vague news of us being in a recession again at which point I definitely

just stopped looking at the internet. Just us personally. Well, the UK, but I feel it will affect us really, the two of us more than it will affect anyone else. I personally have gone into a recession. Something, something Mercury. Oh, Mercury's in recession again. The country's in retrograde. Oh, where does austerity fit into a horoscope? Aries. Yeah. I've been playing the remastered Tomb Raider, which is hilariously bad, because I decided just because I wanted to sit on the sofa to get it on my PlayStation instead.

LWTG I didn't know it was out yet. Oh, yes. I did. I saw your tweet about Valentine's Day. Yes. So you did get it on the PlayStation. GEM I did get it on the PlayStation. I have regressies because it's really difficult.

Like I'm so used to the keyboard controls and also because it's not really a full remaster. It's a re-skin. They've just made it look nicer. So everything is like very much you move like a square at a time effectively, although you can walk and run. So using, it was designed pre-access controls, so like analog PlayStation sticks. And it just doesn't, I had to train myself out of things, like trying to follow myself with the camera with the right analog stick, which is how I play all PlayStation games.

Yeah, yeah. Are you getting into it now, though? I am getting into it now. I got through the Italian levels. Gone to the oil rig. Wee! Oh, best Italian accents. Do we have any Italian listeners?

I mean, not anymore, but... They have all looked up now. Five minutes ago, did we have any Italian listeners? I haven, not anymore, but... They have all looked up now. Five minutes ago, did we have any Italian listeners? I haven't looked to the map for a while. If you're Italian and listening to this, firstly, we're very sorry. Sorry, Cruck. What's wrong with me? But we very much appreciate, you know, food.

Yeah. And you as listeners. Yeah. Jesus. I know we've personally, the podcast has gone into a recession. Do you want to make a podcast? I would love to make a podcast. Let's make one. Hello, and welcome to the Tree Show Makey for a podcast in which we are reading and recapping every book from Terry Pratchett's Discworld series, one us time in chronological order. I'm Joanna Hagan.

And I'm Frantzen Carrol. I apparently just forgot how to say book. This is part... That. I could have just redone it, but no, let's mock me and move on. This is part three of our discussion of making money, going from chapter eight to the end of the book. We're getting that. Um, now on spoilers, we are a spoiler light podcast, obviously heavy spoilers

for the book making money, but we will avoid spoiling any major future events in the Discworld series and we're saving any and all discussion of the final Discworld novel, The Shepherd's Crown, until we get there so you dear listener can come on the journey with us. GALLOPING UNCOMFORTABLE ON A GOAL AND HORSE the shepherds' crown until we get there so you dear listener can come on the journey with us. Galloping uncomfortably on a Golem horse. Whomst among us? Uh, follow up. Quick bit of follow up. I, Tears Pity, she's an instructor in unarmed combat while specifically referencing the

play Tears Pity, She's a Whore by John Ford. It's a 17th century thing. So thank you for the people that wrote in for that. And there was a wonderful discussion of what collops are, basically thin cuts of meat potentially from a scolop. Oh, yeah, there was a discussion, the discord about the etymology, right? I meant to look into that and didn't. So, making money.

Francine, do you want to tell us what happened previously on? Yeah, okay. Previously on Making Money. Cosmo lavishes eyebrows and working overtime as he cajoles, bribes and then threatens Moist Von Lipfig in a poor imitation of Lord Vettanari. Despite Cosmo's cosplay, Moist is unwavering. He's on a roll and the Times takes notes before Egg Street spends them. Soon enough, the man in the golden hat is doing business with the king of the Golden

River and it's time to make a mint. While moist, newly freed forger starts scribbling, Adora Bell demands linguistic answers from the university, and something terrible is happening to Mr. Bent's calculations. goodness! Now what, Joanna? What happens now? A lot! Oh, gush. Gush and gosh. And good. Wow, we can really speak today.

Every burk in there. Every burk, one of the timing from logical order. We're going to be here a long time. Right, please. In this section, in chapter 8, the gloop has gone a bit too accurate and it's indicating that the gold is gone. Moist and drapes can't find Bent and the bank's suffering for a lack of keys. As the Dora comes down for dinner, there's a brief fussbot panic but a hot, cool sheep's head calms things down. In chapter 9, here to fall collects the crib for Cosmo, and Moist realises that Bent might

have taken refuge in the bank's vaults. The anyway in is from above, and the watch aren't pleased about the apparent break-in. Moist and Carrot have a chat, the gold's still very gone, and Mr Fusport gives a statement. Cribins gives a statement to Cosmo, and meanwhile at the DPMC, Fleed manifests. He knows something about the coming golems. Moist is not under arrest for now, and he can't sleep. After a warming cup of th-blot, he rattles his drawers for anoya. In Chapter 10, Cosmo arrives for an audit of the bank, and there's a potential mob gathering. Harry King makes a deposit, and Cosmo almost causes a riot, when suddenly the city's golems just

stop. Four meant 4,000, and as Flead gleefully observes from his travelling circle, the Omnion Golems arrive, take positions, and begin to guard. A council gathers and war comes up, but Moist has an idea. Vettanari decrees the New Golems as tools, but Hubert interrupts with warnings of an impending economic disaster. Moist grabs some new vocabulary and prepares to give the New Golems some marching orders. Chapter 11 Vettanari considers committees, but the Golems are busy digging themselves a hole. Moist wants to replace gold with the Golem standard. The city arrives, and Moist and Mr Fassbott find themselves in custody. Cosmo's not happy about oversight and starts making plans to take Bent out of the picture and become a beautiful butterfly. Bent wakes, Ms Drapes recounts events, and just as the banker blossoms with a funny turn, enter Cranberry. Now we just need a bakery.

Moist is slash int on the trial in the great hall. And a jpeh may be afoot as the watch finds bodies at Bent's place. Moist reveals his past employment to the assembled and Mr. Bent makes an entrance with pies a kimbo. After a pineapple intercept, Drapes reveals the truth. The lavish is sold the gold. Cosmo isn't feeling well and as Pucci interjects and admits to everything, the new veterinary walks into the sun. In Chapter 13, Moist is away, Gladys is chilly, and Adora's just a bit irked. Bent, or Charlie Benito, is doing perfectly well at the Fool's Guild. At the palace, Moist reveals the golem's secret Veteranary and someone's revealed it

across the clacks. Kribbins tries to grab a Dora, but his teeth finally turn on him, the money's printing, there's Taxman plans afoot and the glooper's under control and Hubert returns the gold. And finally, in the epilogue, both the real Lord Veteranary and Professor Fleed settle into their new homes. Lovely, I think. I tried to make it short.

Oh, no, I just need the happy ending. Oh, yes, is a very lovely ending. Helicopter and nine cloth watch for helicopter. I am going for Mr. Fusspot and his wind up clockwork item of an intimate nature. Sure. Specifically the bouncing up and down with it. What was your helicopter last week?

Because somebody said in the discord that it was the most tenuous so far and I'd already forgotten what it was. It was the bouncing turnip. Oh yeah. Not taking questions at this time. At the top of each jump, its unbalancing action will cause the little dog to do one slow cartwheel in the air. So it feels very helicopter. It's so funny. It's so funny. It's so funny. Yep.

For loincloth, we're going with Benito's marvellous bouncing trousers. Of course. Of course. And I have an irrelevant elephant. Oh, yay. Love an irrelevant elephant. I probably should have had two

because there was of course the balloon elephant slash murder weapon. Yes. And then a mention of an elephant that was coming into Try and Pull Somebody's 2000 in An Helarius Manor. But I have one, I've sent you a link on

Signal if you still got that open. Yes. It is from a cool looking blog and the writer has found a receipt for the obsolete Asiatic National Bank of Salem, which I thought was also relevant for bank reasons. And it's got a cool logo of an elephant holding a key, which the writer has a clip to make like a cool fabric pattern with.

And I just thought you'd enjoy that. I am delighted. So I'll link it in the show notes and show you that. And that's really cool. I'm delighted about that. My teeth elephant with a key. Oh, and just for keeping track of where we are, we are in the century of the Anchevi. Okay good. Just in case we're wondering what century we were in, it's the Anchevi.

Always am. Yeah. Quotes, who's first? I think it might be me, just lots of people had been telling him, veterinary, things in the last hour, they told him things for all sorts of reasons, to gain some credit, to gain some money, for a favour quid pro quo, out of malice, mischief or suspiciously, out of a professed regard for the public good. What it amounted to was not information, but a huge, argus-eyed ball of little wiggling factoids out of which some information could, with care, be teased. Such a good line. I know. Information overload beautifully illustrated there.

Wiggling factoids. Grace, how about yours? I went with the short one, because I've got a lot to talk about today. The pile of passionless frippery had a brooding alien look, like some sea monster of the abyss that had been dragged unceremoniously from its native darkness into the light of the sun. It's of course in reference to Mr. Lavish's special cupboard. The special cupboard.

I shoe-horned a lot about the special cupboard into this episode because I think it's fairly funny. I was guessing you probably would, yeah. Yeah, yeah. But before we get to the special cupboard, let's talk characters. Shall we start with moist? Loretta Go on then. Gery Let's talk about moist. He's had a big day. I think he deserves a little chat, doesn't he? Loretta The kind of engaging nature of his narrative,

I found particularly impressive in this section because it really pushed the, what is objectively, I'd say, more interesting bit of news, i.e., golden golems as we were led to believe, arriving onto the back burner in favour of his, as is then pointed out, the sideshow of him fucking about with the bank. Loretta And it's done really well. You don't at any point feel like you're missing part of the story by sticking with moist. Gaby Yeah, yeah. Right up until you realise that the crowds are making noises all the way over there in Angkor Pork and then it shifts the camera very nicely. Yeah, there's some really good point of view stuff in this.

So the point of view, fairly early in this section, he's moist as interviewed by Kara and I like, as I've talked about a lot, seeing characters we're familiar with through fresh perspectives. But I really like the detail. He could read most people but the captain was a closed book in a locked bookcase. He definitely comes across a lot more coldly competent in this than in most, doesn't he? I think because where we see Keratin, like the watch books were spending a lot of time with him, so we see the competence and then also the bits where he misses stuff. But we

don't see things from his perspective. Yeah. Thank you for telling me that, sir. It was a very... Oh, I also like that Moist figures out who the werewolf actually is in this. Eventually. We get some of his religious background, which I completely forgot was a thing when we were talking about potatoes last week that Moist is a member of the Plain Potato Church. He is indeed, and we now know there is at least one schism within the Potato Church. Yes, because they're not fans of the Orthodox Potato Church.

No, I can't remember the difference already, but that seems to marry with everything else I know about religious schisms, so. Whereas it is followers were... Oh, the excesses of the ancient and Orthodox potato church. They shunned those. Um... Mashed potatoes. I did like the line. Colt Cain. Most people used candles and sat on sheep.

Perfect. I like the line about him praying as well. He'd hated praying. It felt as though he was opening a big black hole into space, and at any moment something might reach through and grab him. Which, like, on this world is more of a possibility. Gery Yeah, absolutely. You know, copper boots and all. Gery But it's a nice look at his character. He is someone who has dropped faith and praying

from an early age and gone for his only having faith in himself instead to get himself in and out of situations. Gery Absolutely. Another cultural tieback to Uberwald. We have this splot, splot. Splot? Splot, which I had a little google of. Couldn't find direct parallel listeners. I'm sure you all have theories. Please let me know. But I did find somebody making an unhinged version on Reddit and so I'll link to that. It includes both lemon juice and milk so make of that what you want. No. Just gonna send you that. Just gonna note right now.

You don't have to look at it right now but you know I know what it's like if it's in the show notes you might you might be able to ignore it but if it's in your signal you're like 2 a.m. it's gonna call to you you're gonna look at it. I'm struggling not to look at it now I'm just trying to remember what else I wanted to say about Moise. Oh yeah there's a really good run of moments with him. So you have beginning of a chapter as he's getting ready to face the crowd assembly at the bank He gives himself a little pep talk talk yourself out of a situation You can't talk your way out of make your own luck put on a show

Yeah, if you fall let them remember how it turned into a dive and then not long after the above he's musing on the thoughts of the crowd, which is how they're all hoping it's not true. And this idea of hope, the voice that said this isn't really happening that drove people to turn out the same pocket three times in a fruitless search for lost keys, the mad belief that the world is bound to start working properly again, and there will be keys. When did we last have a soliloquy on hope? That was in going postal. It was very different perspectives on hope and using people's hope for a moist and richer guilt. So I like it coming back here.

But he's sort of looking at this as something other people do while kind of doing it himself. He's convinced himself that there will be keys if he can just talk for long enough. You can see himself talking, persuading himself out of old mindsets. Like at one point he says something like, he thought he was just going to be making money in a place full of stuffy bankers like, no you fucking didn't. No. You went into this knowing and hoping it would be more exciting than a pocket full of blackjacks. Yeah, Vesanari said someone will probably try to kill you and then you took the job.

Yeah, yeah. And then like, pissed everybody off immediately. But then yeah, he does end up talking himself out of it, but he does it by just admitting to all of his crimes coming out as a crook. And Vesanari willing to go with it. Very exciting. Luckily Vesanari, if he hadn't already knew that moist was going to do this, was quick thinking enough to spin it. And probably had mentally prepared himself for that as an option because there weren't many options left to him. Yeah. And you know, what if it had come out a different way? I'm sure he already had to

spiel, yeah. Yeah. And it was, you know... Fucking cribbing. It was really satisfying watching him kind of get one over, get one over on Kribbins in that bit, this ace in the hole that Cosmo thought he had, this guy that can reveal everything and what he's just doing it. Talking about switching perspectives though, actually, the moment where we've had our, our big climax and as as Pratchett always does, he introduces another little danger right

at the end. When Kribbins comes and holds a knife to a doorbell, I just thought that was a really good thudding back to us moment from moist, you know, mercury tap dance. Loretta Yeah. Gail Suddenly we realise that even though, you know, they've both just talked their way into this fantastical situation and out of trouble and the golden tongue pair off to save the day again. Just one fucking man and with a knife contained all that. It doesn't fucking matter who you are. Although it's nice to know that Carrot and Nobby are in the shadows.

Loretta And we're keeping an eye on things just in case. And the dentist ex machina, the teeth giving in. Denta ex machina I think? Yeah, Denta ex machina. Yeah, yeah, perfect. I didn't think of it. Oh, machina ex denta. Yeah. God where are he is? Oh, well, last bit of little... Looking while we're laughing and asking stupid jokes. Little moist bit is that at the end, he points out that the watch you're watching, you know, the trolls relaying the cobblestones and these various obvious watchmen undercover. It's like, oh, now you're observant moist. You finally learned after a book of getting into the wrong coach.

All right, you're leading it to a book of getting into the wrong coach. Right, you only did it twice, Winston. Well, it's a calm down a bit now. Yeah. So, Vessinari, of course, I haven't a bit of a day. Oh, gosh. Good, good though, innit? Good though. All the stuff about the crosswords brought me a lot of joy.

The G-can no mudo, which is obviously a Sudoku, was Japanese for... I'm not saying it right, probably, Japanese for waste of time. Loretta Is it really? Gretta Yes. And talking about the other person who got the crossword clue, which is Miss Grace Speaker, who runs the pet shop in Pelical Steps. Loretta Pelical Steps is a lovely series of syllables, yeah. Gretta I like this, we need to keep an eye on it. A woman who knows a word like that can't be Lovely series of syllables, yeah.

But I like this, we need to keep an eye on it. A woman who knows a word like that can't be happy dispensing dog food. Yeah, fucking. And it's a nice callback to earlier in the book where he's in the blind letter office. This similar version of solving something akin to crossword clues. The actual crossword clue, the cryptic style crossword clue that's in there, shake and play, shift the load, did you work that one out? No, I highlighted it to work out later because I was in a hurry and then I didn't...

Oh, I googled it because I'm bad at cryptic crosswords. Go on. I worked out it was an anagram and then I gave up but it's cart horse, so players, an orchestra and then... Very nice, very nice. But yeah, that, that knowledge is general, like, there's moist thought at one point, like disappointed teacher, turned throughout, I very much enjoyed, just things like, you found a 40 foot killer golem now, one shall I'm sure some ingenious person will devise one for you eventually.

When they do, don't hesitate to refrain from bringing it home. Just kind of the gentle chastised of these two, you know, golden children with their super weapons. Right at the end as well when he's trying to get golems given that this secret. Mr. Lipvig, do I need a badge that says Tyrant? Yes. Yeah, just a couple of reminders. It's like, well, actually, no, I do not need to listen to you. Please, please take the time for a member how nice I am compared to all the rest of them. Do you remember what my predecessor would have done for his amusement? I think it involved some terrible tortures.

Oh yeah, it was having someone pulled apart by tortoises. Yeah, yeah, committees are cheaper than Iron Maidens. No, more expensive than Iron Maidens. I'll be grateful. This gets some tea. Yeah, that whole thing that comes from him giving moist the sword and very much knows that he holds all of the power still in that situation and he's sort of being impressed at how distastefully moist handles a weapon. Yes. Yes, no, I did love that, actually, just seeing how much they say you're more uncomfortable. Now you've got a weapon or you're more frightened yeah yeah yeah and

he's not I mean Moise is just so very much not a violent man no which is lovely to see especially having learned that he had killed two point whatever decimal people through his previous actions yeah had horrible nightmares yeah and the letters really didn't, did him in moist kind of adulation of veterinary when he thinks he's figured out that it was veterinary who sent the clocks around telling him the golem secret. A man who thinks war is a wicked waste of customers. A man who's a better con artist than I'll ever be.

He thinks committees are a kind of waste paper basket who can turn sizzle into sausage every day. Absolutely. I love the respect in that. GEM On the other end of the spectrum. GEM Cosmo. GEM What a... oh dear. GEM So much fun here.

GEM All the focus in the book on his like fucked up finger while he stays eloquent on the surface. GEM The line, another red rose of pain bloomed all the way to his shoulder is an incredible look at how he's thinking about the pain from this horrible rossing finger. Yes, and he's decided it's helping him think clearly. It's a good thing really that he's in so much pain and he's just vanishing to completely block out the idea of what's going on. There's a really great line as well early in the section when he's talking about a run on the banks and he describes it as watching a beeched whale being eaten alive by

crabs. I also really like the way that it's not contrasted exactly but you see it alongside Vettanari's just more elegant metaphors. Yeah. And you know, it's not a bad little analogy, but it's not Vettanari. And I think Pratchett, I pretty sure Pratchett wrote it as not quite as good as Vettanari's. But still pretty good. Monfort metaphor. Yeah, but still, you know, pretty good because Cosmo is all right at it. And then especially next to Pucci, who then goes on about, you know, the caterpillar seep in the Yeah, when he's going on about mesomorphism becoming a beautiful butterfly, and she's

like, yeah, but the caterpillar doesn't become a bus fly, it becomes soup. And then the soup becomes a butterfly. It's a fun contrast. I do like this idea that, what's it say, as he filled the occult space occupied by veterinary, the wretched man would feel himself getting weaker, which kind of links in nicely to some stuff with the glooper that I'll talk about a bit later. Some stuff with the glooper. Stuff with the glooper. I just like saying glooper. Gloop. And yeah, making his deal with cribbans when he's just sat there writing

veterinary. Yeah, it's so crazy. It's great. It was picture. Like veterinary says something like in tomorrow you'll be a beautiful butterfly in Cosmo like, man's gone mad. But yeah, speaking of Poochie. Yes, yes. Really fun in this. I like the line Poochie. Lovely little foil. Poochie thought she was beautiful and that grated on Cosmo's nerves. But there's also a really nice contrasting bit where he's sort of thinking she's useful to have around to talk to.

She saw things from a softer female perspective. You should have bent killed, she said. Yes, the Cosmo's idea of what a sister is and Pruchy's just unwavering commitment to not being that. But he still kind of tries to fool himself with it. And yeah, the just incredible confidence with which she admits the family crimes. Yes, it is like, yes, fine. Absolutely. We've been doing this. Who fucking cares? I'm going to keep talking as I'm dragged away. I'm just sick of all of this. Obviously, we're in the right.

Just proper spot on nepo baby stuff, you know. The way she keeps calling it silly. Yeah. The use of the word silly is really perfect in that situation. It's quite funny because it's what moisture means saying, isn't it? Oh yeah, very much. But it's, yeah, without the same, well, with extra crimes I suppose is the main problem there. Yes, there is a lot more crimes there.

So Mr Bent, let's talk about Mr Bent. Oh yeah, we finally get the idea. I really didn't remember the twist till the last moment, so that was nice. One of the point of view switches I noted down that I really like is when Vesinari is talking to Strom not about Mr. Bent says he arrives here as a child on a car by some travelling accountants and then Moist asks what like tinkers and fortune tellers in a different place in a different scene? Yes. Yes.

And that's a point of view switching tropey thing I like. The general clown thing, I love that this is such a late in the day payoff from the introduction of the clowns guilds of this grey face minimalist place. A miserable place. What was it? Weird sisters. Which everyone had gone in it. I haven't earlier than that.

I mean, weird sisters and you learn about a lot of the force's background. Oh cool, yes, yes, yes. And then men at arms, yeah, where you really see a lot more of it. But I love, the foreshadowing is really great because all the vampire foreshadowing is so obvious. Loretta Yeah, it becomes like after the first bit of foreshadowing, you're like, oh, right, no, this is way too clumsy for friendship. This is like a scarlet herring. Gail There's literally... It's in the blurb on the back of my copy, at least the chief cashier is

almost certainly a vampire. And there's even a summary of it right before the actual reveal, you know, where moist is thinking, well, he's tall and dark and gets in before dawn and leaves after dark and Mr. Fussbook grounds at him and he's a compulsive counter and obsessive over detail and slips on a long thing, and yet all the stuff about the fact that he lives at Mrs. Cakes. And then the full stuff is like comparatively so subtle. Mmm. Yeah, the foot thing and the...

The shoes, the name which I brought up last week, this whole Malvolio thing, it was puritanical and really humorless but puts on his yellow stockings and acts the full because he's tricked by a letter. Which also just fun sidebar. I forgot I was looking for some quotes from the Malvali a bit and then realised we don't need me doing lots of Shakespeare. But the letter from Twelfth Night is the origin of summer born great, summer to you greatness and summer of greatness thrust upon them. Really?

Yeah, which I was pretty sure that was Shakespeare but I couldn't have told you what play it was from so that's all I could make. I thought I could have told you Shakespeare. I'd have, well, hazarded a guess at one of the usual misquoters. Yeah, true. You know. Francis. Churchill. Bacon. Just to start a trip.

Wild. Every. Wild of Bacon. Wild of Bacon. I'll tell you what, if you want to feel bad about your word per minute output, which I'm sure you do. All the time. Anthony Trollope, I was listening to something about him on this week's No Such Things a Fish. Very, very, what's the word, prolific.

Yeah, I don't want to think about it. Okay. I'll cry. Anyway, yeah, so the fool foreshadowing is very clever. And then the actual reveal is so heartbreaking they laughed at him. I know when he went and he cried and he took his make-up off as he said. And then he resolves both sides of himself the accountant side and the clown side he turns up to work with his red nose on in his suit and ready to run the bank. Miss drapes. What about her?

Pull yourself together will you? I know but I love her. Pull yourself together, will you? I know, but I love her. She's, you know, waiting for it. No, I was making a Doctor, Doctor Jake. Oh, sorry. Sorry. We're both really on the ball tonight. Incredible.

Just wondering on completely different fads of nonsense. She, um, trying to push for making her retelling of events to Mr. Bentmore exciting. She's a big fan of the Tansy Bugle. Ms. Drapes would love a true crime podcast. Oh, absolutely. She tried to add excitement, she painted the walls with exclamation marks and he did not budge. Perfect. There's also, there's a great detail, she has decided, all she knew was she was going to follow this to the end. After all,

she spent the night in a man's bedroom and Lady Deirdre Wagon had a lot to say about that. Which is really funny, but it's also great that in the book it sets up the etiquette book as a recurring joke with Gladys and then because it's been established through that, it then becomes a very useful shorthand for Ms Drapes' character. The fact that she considers that tells you everything you need to know about her. Yeah, especially when she's also like, especially in a very technical sense, she actually wasn't a ruined woman. She hadn't had the fun bit to go along with it. Yeah, I'm going to be ruined. I'd like to be ruined. Thank you. Yeah. Later in the courtroom.

Oh, if a battle goddess were allowed to have a respectable blouse and hair escaping rapidly from a tight bun, then Miss Drape's could have been deified. I really want to draw that. Please do. Thank you. I'll say that. What was it? She decided she'd rather be a scarlet woman than a grey one.

Yes. Yes. Everything about her character is so fun in this, especially for her side character, she's just so deeply realised. I know. And she was so in love with Mr. Ben as was, and yet is still so when he's got this completely opposite side of him. I guess she must have known there was a hidden something. I mean, she was willing to go and find him when she thought he was a vampire. So yeah, she's willing to see- Oh, a clown! Oh, that's fine.

Honestly, that's quite all right. You're planning about them whitewashing the room rather inefficiently in my opinion. Yeah. She's gonna be a whitewash wedding. She's just got enough of a lack of sense of humor to make it work. And then Hubert, sweet little Hubert. Oh, little Hubert. The scene where he meets Adora and just sort of forgets how to person. Yes. He sort of panically looks at her and says, I well did 1097 joints and I blew the layer of diminishing returns.

That's how I think I'd end up speaking to Adora Bell to be fair. Oh yeah, 100%. I'm not judging him for this. Adorabelle to be fair. Oh yeah, 100%. I'm not judging him for this. I very much support him for this. Hoomst among us. Hoomst, indeed. Bless his panicked outburst of mad scientist laughter as well.

Oh yeah. I feel like that must be very cathartic. At some point I'm going to try and remember to do a mad scientist laugh on my drive to work. That being the only time I can reliably make a mad noise and not my drive to work. That being the only time I can like reliably make a mad noise and not have anyone hear me. Yeah, that's the nice thing about living alone. I mean, my neighbours can probably hear me, but I don't care about them.

No, I mean, if anything, you want the reputation as mad scientist, don't you? True, very true. Sorry, I confused myself there. Yeah, it's quite alright, sorry. And then later on he needs a similar push towards eloquence in the courtroom. Yes, when he's bringing up this economic impact of the new golems. But I really like he uses, he says circulation is everything, the money goes around creating wealth as it does so, which again brings up this thing we'll be talking about, about how a dollar becomes lots of things and remains a dollar. Yes.

And seeing that. Everything has to move all the time. Yes. You know, same with the postal service. Yes. The letters have to be delivered. This has to move. This has to go. Go, go, go. Right. Now we're money. Money has to move now. We can't keep the fucking money in the vault. Are you insane? Everything has to move because I'm moist for on Lipfig.

Does moist make things move or do things need to move and therefore need moist one lipfig? Probably both because of physics. Ah, yes. And let's not go any further on that subject. So glad it's. The etiquette stuff about dusting is very funny. It's like, oh yes, I shall move the desk so I can dust under it. And I film kind of me finding it funny right after the conversation about, you know, briefly considering changing the words in her head and realising how awful that would be. Yes. But a lovely extra bit to our bottom speedrun. Oh yes, very much so. And the lady wagon says that anybody's found during a weekend party

should be disposed of discreetly in case of scandal. Which is good advice. Oh, I see. There's some extra spicy bits in that book is there. Spicy etiquette. That'll be a fun headcanon one day. What? Spice? You write some extracts from a DiscoElle etiquette book. Excellent. That'll be a fun headcanon one day.

Right, you write some extracts from a Discworld etiquette book. Excellent. Yeah, we should try that. We should do that. And then, yeah, her attitude changes with her new book, Why Men Get Under Your Feet by Reverend Shia Flout. Absolutely. Practice got a gift for names.

Moistur's the skill at the way the golems have been over-anthropomorphised, which I think it helps him finally understand the sarcasm over Mr Pump on a new level. You know, when he says, oh, we call him Mr Pump and Adora's, oh, and you feel good about yourself, can you do that? GEM Yeah. GEM And he thinks about, he can't tell Gladys not to take the book seriously because of how important words are to Golems. You know, they believe in words, words give them life. I can't just tell her we just throw them

around like jugglers, we change their meaning to suit ourselves. Golems view words like bent views, numbers and gold. Gery It is interesting to think of a whole species that sees words as immeasurable as we see digits, yeah? Loretta Yeah. Gail A doorbell in these moments reminds me of a very dedicated environmentalist or something who is, you know, frustrated with the anthropomorphisation of whatever animals they are very involved with. So like, no, no, no, no, you don't need to project your cute little, cute little narrative onto my penguins. My penguins are very interesting in their own right.

Yes. I know golem's so much more clever than penguins, I think. I don't, I've never spoken to a penguin. No, I can't say I've had many chats with penguins in my life. Yeah. But I wouldn't be averse to it if a penguin wanted a chat. No. We just don't live in a penguin-rich environment.

No, I feel like that's where we're going wrong in our lives. I don't know. I've never really seen a penguin-rich environment I fancy living in. Yeah, but maybe the lack of penguins... Right, I'm stopping us now. Vines. What about him? He is so done. Pissed off with this. him. He is so done. Pissed off with this. Caught between a moist and a lavish. Ew. He doesn't really like the side of this. No, but he definitely knows which he prefers, but he's not actually without it. Yeah, he doesn't like the man much and was certain that Vimes didn't like him at all. He was even more certain though that

Vimes did not readily take orders from the likes of Cosmo Lavish. No, there's that luck- luckily, chiff on the shoulder there definitely inflamed more by Cosmo Lavish than by Moistvon Lipvig, even though Lipvig has a touch of the... Criminal. Criminal, and the posh-o I thought until we just learned about his...armish days. Yeah, I mean, he definitely has the vibe of poshra even if he's not from those beginnings. Yeah. Different kind of poshra. He is after all dressed in gold.

Yes. He's very new money though. I feel like Vimes might be not a fan of. Not in love with, yeah. I did often think about what if we got this or that scene from Vimes' perspective as I was reading through this, which is always fun? What would Vimes think of this ending? Or what would the ending be if this had been a Vimes' book, that kind of thing? I do think this is a whole book that's really interesting to imagine from Vimes' perspective, because the watch come in so early on and there's so much criminal activity happening under the surface of the book. Exactly. Like, I don't think you can get Cosmo lavishes and if Vimes is in charge,

because, you know, it's a funny, ha-ha, whatever, and whereas Vimes needs his justice. Yeah. And, you know, the rest of the lavishes seem to disperse or whatever. And that might happen, but you'd have a lot of in a turmoil about it. Yes, and frustration. Yes. And of course, the but the bubbling anger and the the violence beneath the surface, which you don't get with moist walnut pig, which saves time for other nonsense.

Tap dancing, mostly. There's a nice callback as well. In the rats chamber, there was a large axe buried in the big table moist no stis. The force of it had split the wood. It had clearly been there for some time. Perhaps it was some kind of warning or some kind of symbol. Which calls back to you. That was Vimes, wasn't it? Well, we never actually see it. It's in feces of clay, and we don't actually see it, but we know Vimes enters a room and later that room hasn't axed in the table and people have changed their minds about certain things. So yeah, that was Vime's. We also hear back from Dorfel in this one, don't we? So that's a nice couple of links back. Yeah, there's a nice little reference to Dorfel who kind of represents the city golems as much as they have a representative. Before I forget, the most callbacky callback I found in this section was the magical lock.

And didn't we have a magic lock in fucking colour of magic or like fantastic or something? This lock could, or maybe it was even saw through. This lock could be undone by fucking anything. It could be the colour of the twilight or the whisper of a Spanish nat or, you know. Yeah, we definitely had that in one of the early Wizard books. We definitely had that in one of the earlier books. It might have been one of the books that was, but Locke's that was, there was a book. Oh the book, yeah. They had the great spells in.

Yeah, yeah, the Octo and Zephyr. Octavo. Octavo, thank you. But I could be wrong. Listeners, if you remember, Talos. Yeah, why not? Let's just keep tying it back to the first books at this point. So I'm desperate to attempt to not let go.

I don't know what you're talking about. Slant and the Lawyers. Just, I like it. It's kind of notable that Slant has fuck all to do with this book's antagonists, the bad guys. Yeah. Not yet. He's very frightening. Ah, the when he sits all of the lawyers down. Mr Slant did not, despite what has been said, have the respect of Angkor-Pork's legal profession. He commanded its fear. Death had not diminished his encyclopedic memory, his guile, his talent for corkscrew reasoning, and the vitriol of his stare.

Do not cross me this day, advised the lawyers. Do not cross me, for if you do, I will have the flesh from your very bones and the marrow within." Absolutely great. Gone scary zombie, not comic zombie anymore. He was never the funniest of the zombies. No, but you know, there's just, there, they've been a funny kind of speech, not species, but you know, there's just there, they've been a funny kind of speech not species, but you know, yeah, there's been some entertainment in the subset. Yeah, it is zombies. And yeah, slant is just not that. No.

We also see his colleagues, don't we? Whatever they were called, which I don't, honeycomb and something. Yes, I haven't got a rundown. And, and Fleed, Fleed gets a nice ending. Hmm. What an unpleasant man. It's unpleasant, but I think it's, it's funny, unpleasant, not actual unpleasant. Oh yeah, no, it's just tasteful, unpleasant, not. And I love his, his total lack of understanding of what the

Pink Pussycat Club is when Moist is trying to promise it to him. It's sort of, you mean. It's smutty. Do they show their ankles? It's definitely among the parts they show. Before I completely forget about this, by the way, Mr Fussbot, has he just gone off to live with Batonari now or did he give him back? I think Batonari's adopted him. He's just kept him. Yeah. Oh, that's nice.

That it brings me joy and I'm not going to argue with that. But I hope moist visits often. Oh, I'm sure he does. Oh, I'm glad Vettnari has a funny looking little dog. He should. Um, right. Little bit to be liked. The power of belief, but make it gloopy.

Mm, that's a recipe. That's a recipe for something. We add cornflour or? Eh, cornflour, if you've got some good chicken stock that can... How to thicken my power of belief, Joanna, please, tell me. So the glooper has become so accurate that it now controls the economic state of the city. And I like this idea of when the facsimile becomes the thing. And I think it ties nicely into this running power of belief bit.

Yes. Whereas something has become dangerously accurate. I feel like there is a better word for when the facsimile becomes the thing, and I can't remember what it is. Loretta Yeah, you're probably right, neither can I. Neither else have had a lot of sleep lately, don't worry about it. Gareth So Eagle's explanation where he drops the lisp for a bit to make it easier. The term cargo cult world passed and was followed by

a short dissertation on the hypothesis that all water everywhere knows where all the other water is, some interesting facts about hyphenated silicon and what happens to it in the presence of cheese, the benefits and hazards of morphic resonation in areas of high background magic, the truth about identical twins, and the fact that if the fundamental occult maxim as above so below was true then so was as below so above. Which I thought was just a really fun detail in this book that I love. I love Igor's compulsive dropping of his lisp, like intentional here and then accidentally later and moist clocks it.

LWH1 Yeah. One uberbouldie into another. LWH1 I did also do a brief bit of research into where it as above so below comes from. And it comes from a translation of the Emerald Tablet, which is one of the Hermetic texts. And then I stopped because that's a very deep rabbit hole to go down. LWH1 Did we not go into that in Science of Disco World? of Disabled? I don't think we did, did we? Good grief. No, we definitely haven't done the hermetic texts. No, no, no. I know there was a lot of talk of Asabab so I believe but we never got that.

Yeah, no, that is a rabbit hole. All right. What about you? Teeter on the precipice of that and come back. Um, what about you? Teeter on the precipice of that and come back. Yankasal's back to the travelling accountants, Francie. Oh, yay. Um, love Pratchett's commitment to the travelling professionals and the found links and the general world building around these people's.

Um, I also like moists off the cuff head cannon about them. Whole families of them. It must be a wonderful life every day and you ledger. And by night they drink beer and happy laughing accountants dance the double entry polka to the sound of accordions. Do they send me straight to nervously. I don't know it'd be nice to think so. So moist. I love that most automatically has a romantic view of anything that involves this kind of travelling nomadic lifestyle.

Yeah, absolutely. Because it ties into a lifestyle he had, but his was lonely. I also loved that the travelling accountants saved Mr. Bent pretty much immediately after his horrible debut. Yeah, took him in right away. Yeah, I'm sure they were a lovely, lovely punt. Lovely bunch of coconuts. Of a coke. We did. No.

Wardrobes. Wardrobes. Inherently frightening. Yes. I think so. So in Hogfather, we obviously have the frightening nightmare wardrobe. And here we have the build-up and foreshadowing of the incongruously large wardrobe than what Mr. Bent shoves his secrets in. As it turns out, the heated sack full of crown gear, but it seems to loom even larger in his imagination this wardrobe. And why do we think, why do we think wardrobes are so frightening? Loretta Well, I mean, we've got another wardrobe as well, which is the Joseph's special wardrobe. And that gets a lot of sort of looming, foreshadowing thing before you open it and find out

was actually in there. It's a very different sort of horror. GLaDON Oh, yeah. Quite right, yes. Loretta There is something very frightening about a wardrobe. I mean, and you'd think there'd be a potential for wonder in a wardrobe thanks to CS Lewis, but... Yeah. And I think there is potential for wonder, isn't there? But at night time, that potential for wonder is potential for fear because a wardrobe is big enough to hold something frightening, isn't it, I suppose, is the thing. And it's the sort of thing where a door can often be a jar, or maybe that's just my wardrobe,

so I haven't stored my dresses properly. But a slightly a jar. Yeah. And you can't see what's in there because it's dark and because it's full of stuff. And in the old days when a lot of our favourite kids books were written, but would have been a lot more ornate carving by default, casting odd shadows onto the door. Yeah, there's a lot of room for horror with the wardrobe. Yeah. And it is a place where you shove things. It is.

You know, purely, you know, getting something out of the way, put something at the back of the wardrobe. Well, I always imagine that's the wear in the where the sun does not shine, am I right? That's a. Absolutely, yeah, back in the wardrobe. Yeah. So I should be careful about using a phrase like where one shoves things considering it's a choice of special cupboard. No, it's the other way. Don't worry about it. Anyway, I just wanted to think aloud when

it came to wardrobe scary always. Listeners, answers on... Not a wardrobe. Yeah. On a moth-eating piece of fabric. Thank you. So yeah, speaking of the special cupboard. A horse radish. Wonderful analogy from Adora here. It is, isn't it? I enjoyed that very much.

A horse radish is good in a beef sandwich, so you have some, but one day a spoonful just doesn't cut the mustard, as it were. As it were. So you have two, and soon it's three, and eventually there's more horse radish than beef, and then one day you realise the beef fell out and you didn't notice. I was immediately saying, but I've known you to have a horse radish sandwich. Because it all went, but I also think it's fun to compare it to much earlier, and I don't remember exactly which one. Vimes has these musings on sex compared to food. Oh, Kink vs Fetish. Yes. And Kink vs Fetish is a different book, I think. It's the difference between a feather

and a chicken. That's right. Vimes is musings as people will imagine elaborate feasts, but at the end of the day they'll be happy with sausage eggegg and chips. Gery Yes. Very down to earth views on sex, these books, when it has to be mentioned at all. Gery Is it horse radish versus sausage-egg and chips? Gery Not to get post-watershed on the podcast, but I have to say, I agree with the general distaste over those kind of rooms

full of, I always find the shops full of just vaguely unsettling. Yeah, no, it's a lot more than one place. In the same way that libraries and the words all have the power and the space time continuum. Yeah. You know, that is just that's too many of that all in one place. Yes. Should be spaced out. Kept in a wardrobe. No, no, even smaller. Discrete

drawer. Thank you. Oh yeah. And so I want to talk about the epilogue and I want to talk about it here rather than, oops, sorry. Let me try that again. I want to talk about the epilogue. I want to talk about it here because I really love why the epilogue came to be in the book. There's a really great anecdote about it in Rob's book and I won't read out the whole thing because it's like three pages long. But the timeline of this, so the book has been finished and revised and edited and sent off to the publishers and Terry Pratchett thought he was in the honeymoon period between books as Rob calls it. When Jennifer Braille from US Harper Collins calls him, this is the same Jennifer from the third anecdote Jennifer are you crying?

Yes, just at least. So Jennifer Braille has become a hero to me. Yes. She basically calls us as like the book is great, but can we tie up the story of Cosmo lavish at the end? It's flapping in the wind a bit. And Terry Bratch is understandably irritated, especially as these changes need to be made within 24 hours. And the really relatable bit is that he's got 24 hours to add something to this book to tie up this story. Does he sit down and immediately work?

He does not. No, he goes to look at a fallen tree, checks in on the tortoises. They need checking in on. Plays some Elder Scrolls IV Oblivion for a bit. Well, what else are you going to have for the time? Does a madman. A pub lunch. The book is not discussed as the pub lunch,

pub lunch squeak is eaten. Decided to trip to the garden centre is necessary. Before it closes. Plays some more Elder Scrolls IV Oblivion. Gotta finish the quest. There is within this anecdote, which is in I think chapter 17 of the book. This is A Life with Footnotes by the way. Yeah, this is A Life with Footnote, sorry, Robb.

Overly familiar. It's the book you should know what we're talking about. Yeah, yeah, you know, the other one, the other book. The one the mark didn't write. Yeah. The other award- the other book. The one the mark didn't write. The other award-winning Pratt chip biography. So play some more Elder Scrolls for Oblivion, it gets dark so Rob goes home for dinner and then comes back to the chapel.

Cherry Pratt Chip is still playing Elder Scrolls for Oblivion. It's not long before it's any thought. Rob gives the End of the Next Morning to bed and the next morning comes in dreading that they now only have a few hours to do this and you see a poster on the computer screen saying tidy this up and get this across to Jennifer. And just this bit from Rob's book. I open the word file and there they are, the three pages beginning whiteness, coolness, the smell of starch, exactly as they now appear, entirely unaltered in the epilogue at the

end of making money. At some point after midnight, following a day of gaming and dealing with autism, fiddling about in the greenhouse and stomping around at the garden centre, Terry has laid down this concluding passage, perfectly answering the brief. There is nothing for me to do but forward those pages directly to New York. In my opinion, it's the best ending of any of Terry's books. And it is a really perfect ending. It's a lovely end. It's not my favourite because just simply because it's not a character

I'm in love with. That's fair. It's always more satisfying seeing a nice ending for a character you're in love with. However, it is beautiful. It's very neat. It's beautiful. It's neat. And when Cosmo won the Eyebrow Raising Contrast two weeks later, it was the happiest he'd ever been. Yeah, I think this is what I mean about like it not being a Vimes book, because we can take a little bit of joy and amusement in the bad guy who has really caused quite a lot of, you know, murder. Yeah, quite a lot of murder.

Yeah, getting to just be happily insane. I think part of the reason we can take joy in it is that the person who actually did the physical, a lot of the physical murdering Mr. Cranberry, has himself been murdered by a inflatable balloon animal. Yes, yes. As opposed to the non-inflatable balloon animal. Didn't you even mention a bit of stygium surgery, did we? I've mentioned it in the summary, but yes, is the exploding stygium ring removes the

poisonous nonsense. Lovely bit of... Lovely bit of quick thinking from Moist who twigs that that's what's going to need to happen and that the ring will do the job. That's a nice other bit of cutting away from the action, isn't it, as well? And the callback saying that somebody had got the photo of it happening. Yes. That's a very moist, fun, that big way of doing it.

And it's why it's nice that we do get the epilogue, because yeah, we find out that the surgery of the ring worked, but then that means that Cosmo isn't dead, so that that's the bit that's left flapping. Because I think if you didn't have the reference to the thing exploding, it was to work, but I think the reader would assume that Cosmo was killed. Yes. Yes, definitely. And perhaps if this was a Vimes book, he would have been.

Yeah. It really was a, it's very pleasing image, a whole ward full of people pretending to be veterinary and you know, well an underlining of the man's charisma. There's so many people. So how many rulers have a ward full of people convinced they're them? That's a dangerous form of charisma. Yeah. So do you want to go on to the bigger stuff and talk about political ideas?

Yeah, not in any great depth really. You'll be pleased to hear. Greatly pleased. I just really enjoyed the way that Pratchett managed to shoe horns not the right work, it's not shoe horned, but neatly summarise so many huge ideas in really the last third of this book. But you know, they're hinted at throughout. First of all, the one that I highlighted in the first place is the idea of empire. Loretta Yeah. Loretta This, we haven't really explored the Emporchean

Empire. It clearly has echoes of the British or echoes of one of the western, you know, imperial powers. Loretta Yeah. Loretta I highlighted it first because of the line, surely a little bit of conquest would be in order, an empyret perhaps. Very much so. Which is slightly us. But yeah, and then just that running onto the, we use our slaves to create more slaves, but do we want to face the whole world in arms for that is what we would do at the finish? The best that we could hope for is that some of us would survive the worst is that we would try and

Cry him from rot. That is the lesson of history Lord Downey. We're not rich enough And that's sorry. There's something that's been explored in earlier books where I'm more pork used to be as as warring as As any other place and now the national anthem is we own you wholesale. They no longer dominate through strength of arms, they just sell everyone's weapons. Yeah. And it's more so than the more modern Imperial powers actually, it's looking into the ancient empires as well, you know, when you look at the, I can never get the fucking Agatheon.

No, real world. Right, it's framing up now. But the Persians and all that. The Persians and the Greeks and the Romans and the, you know, the Macedonians and just the, the, the, the eventual truth that once you start an empire going, you have to keep it going because you're constantly fighting the borders and you're constantly fighting rebellions and you have to keep expanding and expanding and eventually it does implode. That always happens. Yeah, just very neatly summarised in one little let's not do an empire, guys. Not even a little one. Not even a little empire because that's how it starts. You start with a little empire, you know, you know it you've started a land war in Asia

And you should never get into a land war in Asia And then yeah, I mean this is obviously the big one through the book is currency standard the gold standard Yeah, which is just a very fun depending on your idea of fun a very interesting thing to look into and and study and get upset about. But Hoot Cheese like ran to about how the gold still exists, doesn't it? And rings and things. It's not like anyone's going to throw it away. Who cares where it is? Which, you know, is pretty much what moist has been saying and is a very good point. And then moist's kind of going, all right, fine, we'll put you on

the fucking golem standard. They're going to stay put. They're incredibly valuable. Why shouldn't it be that they can build canals and damn floods, level mountains and make roads if we need them to, they will. And if we don't, they'll help to make us rich by doing nothing. And now the gold standard isn't really so much for a thing. Currency is kind of based off the reliability of nations. In this case, we've had to transfer it to a physical source of power. Because we're still in the world. And then of course, the interesting bit is that the vault refills.

Yeah. I'm not sure about that bit. I'm not sure what that says about the next part, you know. I not so much speculation on the future, but one bit of speculation I have is when the vault refills, is it new gold or does all the gold that was previously sold and turned into jewellery, etc, disappear and reappear as the gold in the vault? I think that one. Because it's being put back by the glooper.

I don't think the glooper can make new liquid. No. I think you have to move it from somewhere. So maybe it's from all those places or maybe it's, or maybe it is new gold in that they've moved it from some mine, in which case you really are going to piss off the dwarves. Yeah. And just the lion letters make money based not on a trick of geology, but on the ingenuity of hand and brain. That's a great line. And it didn't come to British them, but never mind.

I like the headcanon that Moise just never tells anyone it's there. Just locks that vault. It's only for his peace of mind. Yeah. If it all goes wrong, we do have a vault full of gold. We've got it there. It's quite funny really, he spends the whole book arguing against the value of gold when that was his entire raison d'etre. For most of his life.

He says in going postal after he gets the coins and uses it for the post office, something along the lines of the money was really just a way of keeping score. That's true, he didn't really care. He wasn't dragon-ish with it, was he? Yeah. He wasn't a... He was a... A store, not a hoarder.

Yeah, the reason it wasn't spent is because there was nothing he cared enough to spend it on yeah Yeah, yes that the squirrel type of order not the dragon type of order as well. Yes. Yeah, the two can't imagine You're sleeping on a square. I can yeah squirrel and dragon As a non-binary person I am a squagon terrible No drills was yeah, okay, it's great It sounds a bit like a nickname for Miss whatever. Wagon though, doesn't it? Miss D.H.E.D.Wagon.

Have you read squagon? D.Wagon. D.Wagon. We've blown this thing wide open. Much like a custard pie. The last one I wanted to look at was just the idea of political dignity and how easily it can be undermined. And I don't really know where that is. So I don't know if there are any real world examples of somebody going to like crumbling under the PR strain of one humiliation like this. I think historically there might have been more, but I mean, based on the current

British political cycle. Oh, God. But yeah, readers, listeners, even both, why not? Please send me in your suggestions on this written on the bottom of a shoe, Heldad, a president, of course. But this, it's definitely a trope. It's definitely like a, just thinking of like the movie 300, the idea of the God King, the Emperor King, bleeding. And that being the start of the end of his reign, even though that has no fucking basis in historical, whatever. It's just, you know, it's a moment that stuck with me out of that whole book, that whole movie, rather. And, you know, more so, I'd say, than the unrealistic listening muscles. And that's, you know, saying something. Loretta God, I forgot how ridiculous that maybe is.

Gail It really was very... You know, it's one of those... That's kind of another horseradish thing, I think, is Hollywood and its weird muscular thing, right? Gail Yeah. Loretta It's like, oh man, you've gone too far out the fucking... Gail Yeah, horrible, Waterfall definition. Yeah. Anyway, stop dehydrating yourself. Yeah. This particular paragraph would fit well into Hamilton thing, by the way. I just want to bring it back to Hamilton because why not?

Oh, wearing a Hamilton t-shirt. And oh, well done. And I need you to tell me which song it is. I'm pretty sure it's one of the Skyler sisters singing it and I've only watched this once with you. I've listened to the soundtrack a couple times but his brain came as Paul said and delivered its thoughts all in one go telling him what his legs had apparently worked out for themselves. The dignity of the great could rarely survive a face full of custard. A picture of the incustidated perdition on the front page of the Times rocked the power politics

of the city and most of all then in a post-Betnaari world, he would not see tomorrow, which was one of his lifelong ambitions. It's like three things hit me at the exact same time. Oh, you are thinking of Satisfied, it's Angelica Skyler's fang. And I realised three fundamental things at the exact same time. Yeah. Just spare the list of me trying to sing that because she hits notes like I don't have. The dignity of the break of Brelly's Vibrates Facebook have custard. Right? We are not writing a Hamilton-esque hip hop, disc world musical for that scene.

Very well. But I think you'll come to regret that. That's not a threat, that's a prediction. I regret it. I'm in a custarded fate. And it also just gives us the opportunity to jointly glory in the picture of veterinary capturing a handful of custard, tasting it, saying I do believe it is pineapple to a thunder of applause, which I think should take us into some kind of clowning talking point, don't it, Joanna? I love the moment so much. Vesinari's ability to put spin on, he knows that he is getting even more of the front page.

I know. The bit afterwards where the times are struggling for all of the things to put on the front page in that. Oh, that's very funny, yeah. Fitting a spin on custard, what a moment. So, yeah, I want to talk about this idea of only by consent of the clowns. This is what

Bent says when he enters as Charlie Bonito, and it was set up earlier when Moise says something about the ringmaster running the circus and you get another good foreshadowing bit of Bent going, does he? Yes, yeah. Bent was unnecessarily pissed off by it, but it didn't really stand out that much because he's very pissed off everything to do with fruffery. Yeah, so it seems like it's just Bent being annoyed about this turning into a circus with yeah, I mean, he was annoyed. And he

shouts, my jolly good pal, Mr. Lipvig shouting the clown, you think the ringmaster runs the circus, do you? Only by the consent of the clowns, Mr. Lipvig, only by the consent of the clowns. I think it's wonderful to take that and explore this idea of figureheads within Aunt Morporek. Something I love that Terry Pratchett does is that he'll introduce something like this, and it's not, someone says this, and now this is universally factual and everyone does need consent of the clowns, but he gives this and then there's so much room to explore it. And so you have Moist and Mr. Fussport as figurehead leaders. You know, Mr. Fussport is the chairman of the bank,

but obviously in that case, it's a figurehead position because he's a small dog. And then you have Moist who is so style over substance that when it comes to leadership that really he needs the consent of Mr. Bent to get any of this to work and it's layers and layers of ringmasters and clowns. And there's- They had like some kind of pipe. Custard, pineapple custard pipe. The order of pineapples or custard sounds really gross to me by the way.

I think there's something about the acidity of it that I just doesn't appeal. Oh, see maybe I'm just hungry because I can't see that. Pineapple and custard is the thing I see, maybe I'm just hungry because I can't see that. Yeah. Pineapple and custard is the thing I've eaten, I'm sure it is. Oh, yeah. I don't think it's a non-existent combination. It's just not one that appeals to me personally. No, appeals.

That'd be funnier if it was banana, sorry. Banana, bananas and custard. There's this big idea running through the book of bananas and custard, no, of consenting to power and how that works in a tyrant-led city. So then you start thinking about Vettanari as this ringmaster figure and what he does to gain the consent of the clowns. And I think it's really fascinating when they're having that war conversation, Downey being one of the clowns really, and then some, really pushing for war. And as you mentioned, veterinary explaining why it's a bad idea, that triumph from Ross idea. And when moist runs to fleed

and he's trying to get fleed to give them the vocabulary and flees doing this very sulky, why should I? You're not pretty. Which I think is unfair. I think moist is very pretty. Well true, but flea's got a type. True. And moist says because there are fools back there who want to use these golems to start a war and flea's response is then that will reduce the number of fools. Yeah. Oh, he's this very annoying type of eugenics coded professor, isn't he? Oh yeah, he is gross. But the use of fools in that I think is really intentional and is big at the end of clowns and consent. And then to go a layer deeper, because I'm being really normal about this.

Further into the custard. So go further down into the trifle of the city. We completely skipped over the fog and the croutons, by the way. No, we've gone straight to the trifle. Yeah, yeah. If we've got custard, I feel like the metaphor needs to be a trifle. Okay, yeah, yeah. We've completely rewritten the menu of the fucking metaphorical weather today. We've got the we've got the pea soupy fog with the

croutons. But now we're in the trifle of the afternoon, are we? Trifle of the afternoon, we've got pineapple custard, we've got beef sauteed with peas and onions. Sorry, I don't need to reference friends in every conversation. Anyway, to go a layer deeper into the trifle, into that horrible Slogi Swiss roll bit that I don't like, which is why I don't like trifle, these guild leaders of the city believe they have power, they believe that they're in charge, but they inevitably belt a veterinary the tyrant wishes their figurehead leaders and veterinary is the one true clown And we're where this is now getting very

People Especially with that hint that veterinary is like the one who told all the other world leaders how to come on the golems to neutralize them But what is a sword cane but a dangerous flower with a bulb of water at the end? What is a silver skull but a decorative red nose? But then we get this thing of how veterinary views the clouds when we go to the Falls Guild. They're tragic and we laugh at their tragedy as we laugh at our own. The painted grin lids out at us from the darkness, mocking our insane belief in order,

logic, status, the reality of reality. The mask knows that we are born on the banana skin that leads only to the open manhole cover of doom and all we can hope for are the cheers of the crowd. And bringing the mask back in when you have Mr Bent having his in a monologue and fury at the mask that we had in the last section. But in that and the way Vettanari sees down to the heart of the clowns, he's not just the one true clown, he's fully transcended the circus. Yeah.

Keep him laughing as you go. Just remember that the last laugh is on you. He's got to have had that in his head. I feel like he's got to have done that. While writing that metaphor about the manhole cover on the... Yeah. Anyway, so that's my point. I think that's just a great idea to dive or trifle to dive into.

Yeah, I... It's very... It's giving Lord of Mist rule. Yeah. It's giving... Yeah, it's giving Lord of Mist rule. Yeah. It's giving... I like the... It's also giving one a precious things where you go so far into a concept, you come out the other side like the cold waters at the end of insanity. Yeah.

They set the colds sanity at the other end of chaos. It's the cold sanity at the other end of the clouds. Yeah. It's Dr. Whiteface the other end of the clouds. Yeah. It's Dr. Whiteface, Brit Large. It's like Vettanari is the puppet master and he's got a huge circus-themed puppet show. Bring it back to trifle. It's like the last layer of the trifle isn't Swiss roll after all.

It's just jelly as it should be. Vettanari made the trifle and is presenting it to the Great British Bake Off judges. No, okay, the metaphors run away from me. Right, I've devolved into full on wake up giepul mode, so Francine, what's your obscure reference for Neil for me? Many great men have been considered mad, Mr Hubert, even Dr Hans Ford. Forvert was called mad. But I put it to you, could a madman have

created a revolutionary living brain extractor, extractor. Dr. Hans Ford. Hans Ford, I believe in this case, to be the golf. I'm guessing the golf technique, your hands forward, you meant to have the hand your hands forward, in relation to the your hands forward in relation to the ball as you smack it. Please don't look at my hands listeners who are watching also because obviously I don't know how to play golf. But my guess is the living brain extractor is smacking somebody with a golf iron. This is mad theory as much as obscure reference and I would love to hear everybody's thoughts arriving on golf balls through the window. Francine's window please, not mine because my entire flat is windows.

No, none of our windows, just a window. A comedy window in the street carried by two moving... Yeah, two men. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sugarglass, you know. No workmen were harmed in the making of this out of control bit. Joanna, help me. Finish the podcast.

Stop it. Stop it all. I've got nothing for you here. An outro? Oh yeah, one of those. Right, that is everything we're going to say on... Don't make me do it. That's everything we're going to say on making money. We will be back with you on the 4th of March to begin our discussion of Unseen Academicals.

Oh my god! I know, I'm so excited. Oh, brief correction, I speculated that this was the longest Diggs World book, it's not apparently is Unseen Academicals. Oh, that does surprise me. That is a weapon of a book. Gretta I can't remember who said that in the discord, but thank you. So yeah, keep an eye on our socials to see how we are dividing the book up in the, until next time. Do you listen to it? You can join our Discord link down below. You can follow us on Instagram at the true show Make You Freight on Twitter and Blue Sky at Make

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That's why I'm getting confused. The uncooked bean in the cooked beans. There we go. As much as a golf ball is nice. Shut up, Francine. But the point, this isn't the point, but I do like a trifle. I prefer a trifle that just has the jelly layer at the bottom, which is like the cheap a Kefko wants to.

Geryl- Yeah, it's the damp sponge situation that I can't be having with the trifle. Geryl- Yeah. And the other, you know, the benefits of a cheap trifle are twofold. No damp sponge as a general and it's usually vegetarian jelly now. Geryl- Ah, that's good. I thought about that. I don't think I'm ever going to be a trifle fan. No, that's fair. I'm not very big on whole fantasy.

Between us, we've got the food and allergies covered on this. I don't know about that. The sheep skull with the sunglasses, I think, is a reference to something as well, by the way. I seemed you'd be looking at it because it reminded me of fucking Blues Brothers or some shit. It vaguely clanged but not enough that I could be bothered to go and research. I thought it was just meant to be like a funny sight gag. Yeah, you might be right.

I just googled it and I'm seeing a million AI generated. Fuck my life.