The Truth Shall Make Ye Fret - 137: Unseen Academicals Pt. 2 (Mass Pie Experience)

Episode Date: March 11, 2024

The Truth Shall Make Ye Fret is a podcast in which your hosts, Joanna Hagan and Francine Carrel, read and recap every book from Sir Terry Pratchett’s Discworld series in chronological order. This week, Part 2 of our recap of “Unseen Academicals”. Crab! Bucket! Gloing!Find us on the internet:Twitter: @MakeYeFretPodInstagram: @TheTruthShallMakeYeFretFacebook: @TheTruthShallMakeYeFretEmail: [e-mail]: www.patreon.com/thetruthshallmakeyefretDiscord: https://discord.gg/29wMyuDHGP Want to follow your hosts and their internet doings? Follow Joanna on twitter @joannahagan and follow Francine @francibambi Things we blathered on about:The company behind the Alien and Dishonored tabletop RPGs is planning a new RPG based on Terry Pratchett's Discworld - PC Gamer Modiphius Discworld game surveyPhonestheme - Wikipedia  Hertzsprung–Russell diagram - Wikipedia Guardian book club: Unseen Academicals by Terry Pratchett - The Guardian  The goats with spider genes and silk in their milk - BBC News Crab mentality - Wikipedia Music: Chris Collins, indiemusicbox.com

I got optimistic today they're selling charcoal in the spa downstairs again and get the barbecue going scene. The first sign of summer. Fuck the buddings leaves and the birds are twitching. Look, it's the charcoal in the spa. Well, I'm sorry you've had such a stressful day. It's fine, it's fine because what I'm going to do, I played lots of Baldur's Gate today,

which has not really helped my mental health. It gets very stressful at times. I've been rewatching Community because I'm taking it off Netflix at the end of the month. Are they? Oh, sad. Yeah. It's on ITVX still. Oh, okay.

Which annoyingly adds, because I've been bingeing One Tree Hill on ITVX, I've had to suffer a lot of advertising recently. If I hear that Yodeling Domino's advert one more time, I'm gonna... Oh, so One Tree Hill. This is Teen Drama, Mid 2000s, starring Chad Michael Murray, a lot of basketball. A lot happens but somehow there's also no plot. Or no, there's a lot of plot but somehow nothing happens episode to episode.

Okay. The one thing I knew about the show going in is that at some point someone is meant to get a heart transplant and a dog eats the heart. Oh my god. There's the like, is like- Can I put this in the soft iPhone? Oh, this means it's like a scandal. No, it's not scandalous. Yeah, it's like regularly comes up on like most batch of things that happen in teen dramas of the 2000s.

Like I've never seen the show, but I was fully aware that this happened. I've seen like the little clip of it. So many genres of articles that perhaps you've read more of than most people at this point. Do you want to? Quite possibly. But I feel like it is kind of a pop culture thing. Like it's a famous thing in One Tree Hill, The Doggy, it's the transplant heart. Sure. But I had zero context for it

I just knew that happened and I've obviously been watching the show and The character who needs the heart is her last hole and she'd already had one heart transplant not happen So you got kidnapped by a crazy ex-nanny It's so bad shit and then I was watching the other day and I finally got to the episode and he goes into hospital and Like the show opens with a guy in the hospital with his golden retriever because the golden retriever ate a bunch of his weed And he's taken his hospital rather than a vet Because he's also very stoned. Oh, sorry. This is a podcast and I just keep doing eyebrow reactions to these sorry listeners I was working on my own today. I was so excited.

I was like, oh my God, it's finally the doggies, the transplant heart episode. It was amazing. It happens in like the first five minutes of the episode. It is given the same narrative way as a very young Evan Peters shoplifting some hot dogs and one of the other characters possibly losing her teaching job.

And in like the first, like the credits are still like rolling on the screen, the fucking dog eating the heart happens. Does the guy die? He hasn't died yet. I'm like, I hope he does at some point, but the show has three more fucking seasons. I think he's supposed to be getting a redemption arc, but I hope he doesn't. I just do hope he dies. Mm hmm.

He has a tantrum in the ocean after the heart gets eaten. Ocean tantrum. What's really great is there was a different dog they originally cast to eat the heart and then the dog just didn't go for the heart that was on the floor and eventually they did. Did these are real heart? It was a pig's heart.

Yeah, I mean obviously not a human heart. Yeah, it was not a human heart. Yeah. You just thought they'd like sculpted one out of dog food or something, you know? No, they recast the dog for this golden retriever that quite happily went for it. So then after the guy has the tantrum in the ocean, someone runs past him with the dog and says like, hey, life's great. And it's the dog that didn't eat the heart. So they say, it's still got to be in the episode. Oh, that's nice. I think.

Anyway, yeah, my brain is just stuck on that now, for forever. Yeah, it's made me feel like some kind of way, just hearing about it. I'm so sick of this show. I don't even really need to watch all of it, but I feel like I've suffered so much now. I should push through it.

In actual Discworld news, we should probably mention the news that came out last week. There is a new Discworld TT RPG in the works. And what's that? So, Modiphius, the board game and tabletop game company have made a deal with Narrativea. They now have the publishing rights to create new desk world tabletop RPGs and board games. So, Medivius, the only thing I've played by them is they did a Skyrim board game, which is really good. So, the lengthy playtime is one of those big complicated ones, but it is quite fun to play. I haven't played any of their tabletop RPGs.

As Discord podcasters go, we're not the most knowledgeable on that, but I've seen Ben from Pratchett and Al from Desert Island, both sort of say, Medivius's tabletops are kind of crunchy, so, but then like not necessarily the smoothest, neesiest just set up and play. Not to be down on it before anything's come out, it might be really fun. I don't know, But then, like not necessarily the smoothest, neesiest just set up and play. Okay. Not to be down on it before anything's come out. It might be really fun. They've got like a survey out at the moment. People can sort of write in with what they'd like

from a Discworld games and tabletop games. But yeah, new Discworld stuff. Steven Briggs also adapted Weird Sisters, not Weird Sisters, which is abroad. Yes, I saw that. For the stage, which would be cool. Really gorgeous artwork. I still really want to put on a just-go-on-stage play.

Okay, which one? I don't know. I mean... I'm now lobbying for which is abroad. Yeah. I do really love which is abroad. I think that would be really fun. I just think it would be hard to sell tickets to, like, here.

Listeners, would you come to various lemons to watch us? We should do it just us two person, which is brought with puppets. We won't do that, we'll get actors. How far can we push Francine's stage fright? We'll get actors, possibly a director. I'm saying we, I mean, this is very much you. Yeah.

I'll make a poster. I know actors, I have done theatre. I can also act, but I can't act and direct at the same time, so I might have to find a director. Yeah, that might madnessize one of those weird fantasy projects, like the room or whatever it's called. Yeah. But I really want to be in any of it. Anyway, we're not doing this now though.

Okay, yeah. No. What are we doing now? Do you want to make a podcast? Yeah, okay, let's make a podcast. Cool. Hello and welcome to the True Shall Make You Forever podcast in which we are reading and recapping every book from Terry Pratchett's Discworld series, one of the some in chronological order. I'm Joanna Hagan. And I'm Francine Carroll. And this is part two of our discussion of Unseen Academicals. Yeah, but we've seen them. Yeah, we've seen them. They're all over the show. Although we did get the name of the thing in the thing.

We did get the name of the thing. I love it when we get the name of the thing in the thing. Now on spoilers before we crack on, we're a spoiler-like podcast. Heavy spoilers for the book, Unseen Academicals, but we will avoid spoiling any major future events in the Discworld series. And we're saving any in all discussion of the final Discworld novel, The Shepherd's Crown, until we get there this year so you, dear listener, can come on the journey with us. FLYING THROUGH THE ART was a stained glass window only to be stopped at last second by the orangutan.

Which is what we're hoping happens to the podcast. We start recording the Shepherd's Crown episodes and the orangutan just crashes in. I'm counting on it. Yeah, that's what's going to happen. Follow up a couple of just quick silly little things. Jeffrey on Twitter said, America's best sports rivalries are in college, but a lot of the chance of pretty much variations on you suck. And then said, locally RIT has a large deaf population. So sign language is incorporated

of it. Hence, I know you suck and bullshit in sign language. That brings me joy. I really like that people are being abusive to opposing teams in sign language. That's really inclusive. Inclusively abusive. And it rhymes so you know it must be good. And not really relevant to anything, but this is like an hour before we recorded. Peter in the Discord said, if we all remember my headcanon slash completely baseless theory that drum not secretly a slag, in the new audiobook for this one that Colin Morgan's reading has given drum not the most inexplicably sultry, breathy voice. Oh!

So clearly Colin Morgan. I'm making my paper clips. Colin Morgan agrees with me. Oh. So clearly Colin Morgan. My claiming my pay-for-clipping. Colin Morgan agrees with me. Drum, not the slag. Perfect. Unfortunately, now I am picturing him as BBC's Merlin. Right, where are we going? Part two of Unseen Academicals.

Francine, do you want to tell us what happened previously on? Sure. Previously on Unseen Academicals. Ho! The Megapode! The Unseen University rings with the sound of ancient absurdities as Ponder Stibbins attempts to distract an enraged Ridcully, and he may just have found the mother of all distractions. Down in the cellars Trevor likely spins a tin can while the brilliantly unsettling Mr. Nut does not spin the candles. You can't get a good dribble that way, Joanna. One story up in the night kitchen, Glenda and Juliet live vicariously through their

various forms of literature and dangerously through football's pectation. Is that a word? Yes. With Trev and Nut at the game, things somehow get even more violent, and Nut ends up dying briefly before answering the time-honoured question, who ate all the pies? JANET Marvellous. LADY What about this one, Janna? This middle section, which is rather big, chunky, page full. JANET Yeah, so this section begins where the last one ended. Page 174 in the Corgi paperback and goes to page 354 in the Korgi paperback,

ending with Take Me to See Mr. Nut Right Now, said Glenda. I very rarely do this these days, but I had to keep reading this time. I got another couple dozen pages through. Well, I always read the whole book before I start doing all the notes and stuff for the podcast so I can decide where to split it up, which is fun because sometimes I can remember what happened and you can't. GLaDON Oh yes, almost always I'd say. GLaDON If I can remember what happened in the section

we're actually talking about on the other hand, but that's why I've got this handy summary. GLaDON Oh, would you like to read it? GLaDON In this section, the wizards discuss the appearance of the urn which comes completely with new, ancient set of rules for football. Glenda arrives with the tea trolley and can't help but offer her opinions, and thalmic entanglements are bound and Britcully suggests a kick about. Glenda and Juliet head to Shatter for a fashion show and head backstage with Sherry's supervision. Pepe and Madame Sean want Juliet to model and Glenda lets the Sherry negotiate.

Glenda's in the front row and Juliet's stunning the crowds and while she's offered a job, Glenda finally experiences a boudoir. After an accidental nap, she finds herself in the arse and Pepe introduces himself properly. Juliet's been offered a job but Glenda's opinion matters. After a disastrous attempt at football, Ridcully pays a visit to the Cabinet of Curiosity. Despite the dire warnings of Flora Bunder and his sandwich, the Cabinet does supply a football. It goes glowing. Trevor and Nutter recruited to get the ball recreated by cunning artificers, but they bump into a cutlass-wielding Andy on the way. Nut takes his hand and Trevor grabs a weapon, and at Glang Snoresons, the ball begins to take shape. I hate myself for writing this.

It's not the best section for somebody who's struggling a little bit with sentences today, is it? Yeah, no. Why did I write this? Glowing. Glowing. On the ride home from Shatter, Juliet tells Glenda she'd like to keep her kitchen job. Meanwhile, Trev spots something that works for her ladyship in the alley and grabs a

dagger on his way out. It's a new day and Juliet's saying watch her on the Times Front page while Gladys opens her bank account. Nut delivers a poem and Juliet's delighted. Pepe wakes up to demanding crowds and the low king reads the paper. The Great Hall's been cleared and a kick about begins immediately with the new ball. The librarian gets in a good save and Nut suggests some new rules to make a beautiful game. Glenda's sales take off and Mustram and Henry face off. The universities might get competitive and Ponder tries to press

pause before the dean gets invited to the banquet. Trevor sort of joins the team, Glenda promises Juliette a banquet in the footballers' tri-ballet. Glenda and Juliette bump into Verity Push-Prem at the night market and take a crab for the road. Smeem stresses over the chandelier but nut has a plan. Glenda stands up to Mrs. Whitlow and the football captains enter. While Veterinary enquires after wizardly power struggles and suggests a game for the hat, Nut prepares to light the candles brackets dramatically. After a demonstration Veterinary invites the captains to join the wizards at this new football and ask them to sign the rules.

The next day, football's on the front page. Glenda challenges Veterinary before going to work, bumping into Pepe and finding Juliet's made all the pies. Glenda sends Juliet off with Pepe to a better life and cleans, and cleans, and cleans. And concrete's worried, nuts not feeling well. Absolutely hate myself for writing that. I did it right before my sinuses started catching fire. But we did it, we're here.

We're here at Helicopter and Loinkloaf Watch. Oh, your favorite part. My favorite part for Helicopter, I am going with the word glowing and all that it implies. Good. And for Loinkloaf, I am going with micro mail, which I don't know if you've heard, it doesn't chafe. Not as cold as you'd think, are they?

And just for keeping track of where we are, it's currently the year of the pensive hair. Oh right, and it is. I saw some hairs in the wild for I think the first time the other day. Oh really? Oh cool. Two hairs. Love spotting a hair. I've only ever spotted them from a distance, but I have spotted them.

They were a little close for comfort for me because I was with the dog, so I didn't have a proper look. You have a lovely, lovely sight, that will leave after that. Lurchers and heirs, not historically the best of friends. Not generally pals. Quotes, do you want to go first? Yes, I do measure with my eyes. It is a skill. It can be learned. And that makes you worthy. Yes. And who judges? I do. That's a really nice way.

Following on with more of this stuff that I'm liking the theme. Yep. Nice little moment between Nut and Trev. During the making of the glowing. The making of the glowing. At first, oh no, there was something about rings that I was going to do. Never mind. Forging of the glowing. At first, oh no, there was something about rings that I was going to do. Never mind. Forging of the glowing. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Five were given to the Dolly sisters. Three to the dim well old pearls. And $20 to the dwarf.

Another glowing was forged in secret. Anyway, my quote, I picked a sensible length considering how I'm feeling. I've told this to few people, gentlemen, and I suspect I never will again. But one day, when I was a young boy on Holiday in Überwald, I was walking along the bank of a stream when I saw a mother otter with her cubs. A very endearing sight, I'm sure you will agree. And even as I watched, the mother otter dived into the water and came up with a plump salmon, which she subdued and dragged onto a half submerged log. As she ate it, while of course it was still alive, the body split, and I remember to this day the sweet pinkness of its rows as they spilled out,

much to the delight of the baby otters who scrambled over themselves to feed on the delicacy. One of nature's wonders, gentlemen, mother and children dining upon mother and children. And that's when I first learned about evil. It is built into the very nature of the universe. Every world spins in pain. If there is any kind of supreme being, I told myself, it is up to all of us to become his moral superior. LWR I love Vettanari's take on that scene. LWR Yes. LWR And almost any book book it would be some trite thing

about the circle of life. And here's like this world is disgusting morally. I forgot that that I remember that sequence that that bit of writing with the ossa ossa's and salmon very well. I completely forgot it was this book like I would have said we'd had it already. But apparently not. And yeah, it's a really beautiful piece. And it's a more erudite than usual, veterinary, because he's had a couple of beers. Yes. I'm very good at acting sober, I think you'll find. So characters, should we start with Glenda, who I love? We will. And I'm actually going to take this opportunity to shoehorn

something I meant to say earlier, and I just managed to bring the link back up. Because Glenda actually is a good example of this as well. And you know, glowing is a cool word. And in a previous similar unseen university plot, we had Glingal, Glingal. Glingal, Glingal, Glingal. And we talked about listening and whatever's. Yep. I finally learned the word for that, you know, when the start of the word sounds the same

as like glisten, glow, gleam and all that. Yeah. It's a phonus theme and it's from the Greek phone sound and a semaphoreception. So like I think from the same thing as a static. But yeah. So yeah, I will link to a Wikipedia page on that and it's got a load of them all all listed and it's also got some cool see all so's. We love to see all so's.

We do like a see all so here and there. Funnest theme. You looked at Glenda's last name as well, didn't you, sugar bean? Do you know what? I just sent you that and then forgot about it. Hang on, I've got the page up so it's okay. Cool, yeah. So Dutch type of sweet traditionally given on the occasion of the birth or baptism

of a child in Belgium and suikaboon. I was just about to call you a coward for not going with it. Suikaboon is the Dutch phrase also known as a dupesweaker, literally baptism sugar. And in French they're called dredges. They look like Jordan Normans, but it's usually like little sugar coated chocolates. I really want some of those now. Yeah. Like real fancy M&Ms. Yeah. I've eaten so much chocolate this week and I still want more.

Have you? I have. I mean, very chocolatey made. Keeping it in good condition. Smoked chocolate, Joanna tells me is a thing. Smoked chocolate is a thing. So yeah, Glenda. Sorry. The opening, Glenda. The opening, they're having the discussion about football, and then I think you as the reader slowly realise that the person at the T-Trolley is Glenda reacting. I've noticed like practice done quite a lot in the last few

books we've done of like slowly revealing that it's a character we already know there. So like moist climbing it's a character we already know there so like moist climbing the post office and realise a few pages in that it's moist. And it's really fun. It's a fun slow reveal. Ridcully's reaction when Glenda starts being just a bit more present. The expression of intelligent amusement on the face of the dumpy girl had unnerved him. It was if a chicken had winked. As always, Ridcully showing his kind of ingrained ridiculous prejudices and immediately correcting himself. Good lad. Very good lad. Until this moment, he had never thought of the maids in the singular. And then he does ask her advice and he takes her advice.

He doesn't just listen to it. And when he asked her, you know, Glenda looked into the Arch Chancellor's eyes and saw that it was no time to be less than bold. So this is when, even before the crab bucket stuff in the fashion show, this is when Glenda starts getting moments of bravery and realising she can, I mean, she's already bent the rules by being there, but she's this is part of the system of favours that they do. But yeah, she's getting a little extra extra oomph of it there. Yeah. And it's interesting that this kind of shove forward of her personality finally is provoked by football, which she doesn't see herself as being like a huge fan of until it's threatened.

Yeah. She very much claims ownership over it. Does not like being given certain amounts of ownership over say Juliet, she gets mistaken for Juliet's mother, which is obviously very offensive when it's someone who's your age. Not so good. The Sherry at the fashion show, I really love like the personified Sherry, it's very third thoughts. It was like third thoughts taken to another level. Yeah. Yeah. One's in a monologue, can I think be projected onto various things? I've never

yet seen it projected onto a Sherry. I haven't personally, but I'm not a big Sherry drinker. No, I tried exactly once and I don't know what I was expecting. It wasn't that. I never tried it again. Anyway, back to Glenda. When they're leaving the fashion show, Madame Sean has the nice realisation of a feeling that Miss Glenda is just about to start thinking there's a

powerful mind behind that rather sad cloak and those awful shoes. I like how quickly she catches herself as well. You know, I mean, like the first sections very much setting up her self sabotaging and slightly Juliet sabotaging personality traits. And in this one you very quickly see her go, hey, wait, no, oops.

Yeah, very much so. When she goes to the bank and again it's before she's fully had the crab bucket realization but she's starting to, trembling with fear and defiance, she walked up to a clerk at his desk and it's this, she thinks this somehow is against the rules and then learns it isn't and gets called madam. Yes. And she starts learning that she's put a lot of the rules into her head herself.

The imaginary mallet. And Glenda decided that tonight she can read unwritten rules when she sort of just inserts herself into the banquet. Gery This is such a thing as a crab mallet, or am I making this up? I think you've got the lobster claw eating things. Gery Yeah, you get like a little thing to crack claws and stuff with.

Gery Yeah, we could mix these metaphors without a terrible clash, I think. Gery Well, there's probably a bit of clashing if we're using a mallet. Gery Oh, yeah, fair. Gery But although some of the stuff it takes her a while to get to, she takes her lessons from Madden-Shawn straight to her sales job really quickly. Yeah, like she was fine at it before, wasn't she? But then as soon as she spent a night in the

company of these like master sales people, she's like, oh, I know how to sell the dream now. Yeah, I get it. She comes up with more dreams and pitches them. I hope she gets a cut for those. She managed to drive a hard bargain on Juliet's bar. She did. She did. And then Jules got double because the champagne was feeling generous. Right at the end, when she goes to see Vettanari, he digs right into,

he knew her grandmother who used to cook at the Assassin's Guild. I thought was a nice detail. And he digs right into her. He knew her grandmother who used to cook at the Assassin's Guild. I thought it was a nice detail. And he digs right into who she is. Your grandmother used to do people's thinking for them, family of capable women scurrying about in a world where everyone else seems to be seven years old and falling down on the playground. You want spaces you can control beyond the immediate reach of fools. And that frustration that he didn't add, am I right at the end, which would be, you know, grounds for murder. He just states it. Yes, they both endear themselves to each other

a little bit there, don't they? Yeah, I think they entertain each other. And I like the veterinary, and again, this is drunk veterinary reacting to her, but he's sort of like, no, we don't throw the food she made away. Like even me, who does not, what's the word for it? Not a stove, like an estate, she doesn't, he doesn't care about that sort

of thing. Even I know it would be a sin to throw that sort of food away. Not an epicureum. There we go. I thought that Nari's thing was a little like, a little bit like pointed with her like in the seven year olds and falling over and the thing like maybe Glenda's projecting a bit and then I thought about like a couple scenes previous where she'd have to tell them stop stealing the silverware from a university for the wizards. I'm like, no, no, she's actually correct. Everybody else is a fucking fool.

Yeah. Both things can be true. Everyone else is a fool and sometimes she does need to do that. But also veterinary is manipulating her a bit because of this situation. Yeah, definitely. I'll talk about the football a bit later. But yeah, Juliet. Oh, I love Juliet. She's fantastic. And she really comes into her own in this one as well. She's she's allowed a few more sentences. Yeah, she gets to speak a bit. The description of her when she's agreed to model look at her face, she looks as if someone's lit a lamp inside.

And then that description is used again later, isn't it? And she seemed to remember her glowing from the inside, as she'd... Yeah. Yeah. And she kind of breaks the rules before Glenda does because she doesn't have Glenda at her elbow reminding her of the rules. So she doesn't know not to say, watch her andatter away to the society women and tell them about the pies, the plowman's pie. Yeah. Turns out everyone loves it. But being said, watch her too. That was a awful sentence. Sorry. But yeah, Owen had like sticking up for Glenda.

Oh yeah. One of one of the girls snicking about your old coat. I told her you work very hard. Which is like awful thing to say to your friend, but so sweet at the same time. Like, oh, you don't tell your friend that came up. And that comes up in the conversation where Juliet saying, you know, I'm not going to go and model. I want to stay in the night kitchen. I want to stay with you and Glenda's internal response to that is great.

It's like, oh, shit, I've got to give her a good example. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, oh, I didn't mean it like that. But I did until this moment. We're really going given her a good example. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, Oh, I didn't mean it like that. But I did until this moment when I realized it was a bad idea. Yeah. Yeah. It's like when you pick a fight with somebody when you could just because you're in a bad mood, and then you get a fight, you're like, Oh, I wanted. Yeah. Oh, and just like the description of her like doing the catwalk bit for the first time. And one of them was like, oh, you know, no, not quite like that. Like a fish in water, a bird in the air, you know, wear the world. She goes, oh, all right, yeah.

And just does it. And then they're sort of weeping at the beauty and glory of it. If only I could look that good in a silver beard. I think that's what's stopping me from being able to do the catwalk. Yeah, yeah, that's the only thing stopping me and not the fact that I'm not catwalk sized and can't walk in heels. Yeah, I was about to say it's the shoes for us. Let's be honest. I can stand still and look really good in something. I can't walk up and down looking good in something. I can stand I can sit on like a bar stool. Yeah, when my ankles crossed in lovely shoes and be like, I'm wearing lovely shoes.

I will not be getting up. I can stand provided there's a firm hand at my elbow, which is what I look for in life. I do like a firm hand at the elbow. God, I will. This is what happens when I'm not here to keep us on track for unseen. Julia makes the pies. I got off onto the metaphorical boudoir of tendons. Get your reticule out of that boudoir, Francine.

The flower towers of absolute nonsense. The sad empty champagne bottle of what was once an episode. Oh no, this one's gone flat. Anyway. Yeah, she makes the pies. She doesn't know what to do with them in the kitchens there, and so she just makes them. And then Glenda's like, well, you know how to make a pie now. I can send you off into the world. You've got your skill. Yeah, you can make a pie.

You can always pull back on making a pie. And that's so sweet and really practical, actually. I think that's the lovely mix of like dreamer and practicality. It's make a pie now. I've taught you enough that you can come back to a stable job. However, off you fuck. Yeah. She's the first never apologize for anything that doesn't need apologizing for because Juliet starts like apologizing for making the pie. She's like, I'm sorry, I didn't know what to do. So I just did it. And it's really relatable. It is. Yeah. And it's a really good pep talk. Yeah. So yeah, so Madame Shan. Love Madame Shan. Extremely expansive around the waist and wearing a breastplate so beautifully halamored and ornamented that taking it into battle would

be an act of artistic vandalism. He and you had to remember that all dwarfs were he unless they assaulted otherwise had when he spoke a voice that sounded like the darkest and most expensive type of dark chocolate, possibly smoked. That's why the smoked chocolate came up, was this? Yes. If you're wondering. Madame Shan sort of declares her gender and relationship to her workshop, which is her mine.

And, you know, she is king of her own mine, and as she is king, she declares she is queen. Therefore, she is Madame. I can't argue with that. The is queen therefore she is madame. I can't argue with that. The relationship with Pepe is so sweet. I love it. This sort of old married couple bickering but they are actually holding hands tightly the silliness over you know, to botchery. Well you did eat a box of chocolates you took out the middle bit of the card. I hadn't meant to eat that bottom layer practically a salt. I hadn't meant to eat that bottom layer, practically a salt. Just a really nice portrayal, I think, of a long-term, debauched relationship.

Does that make sense? We've all known a couple of couples like that. It doesn't manage to keep that lifestyle going past all physical probability. Those lovely sweet luscious wheel know. But they say, you know know you're seeing us have this party and you're seeing it's debauched but this is a year's worth of hard work. They have that relationship because they also have built this whole thing together. Yeah.

Yeah and Pepe's like specifically like I'm not a piss artist. I don't drink at work. Like this is- Yeah. This is me celebrating. This is me winding down. We've just done this. Yeah.

Look. And she's got a boudoir And she's got a boudoir. She's got a boudoir. We've finally seen a boudoir fit for 40 people. And I'm starting to wonder whether I don't know what a boudoir is. Well, it's a generous boudoir. A generous boudoir. So generous you want to keep it in with corsetry. Exactly.

A lot of corsetry in this section. Yeah, there's a... Metaphorical city, courtistry. Court... Courtistry? a corsetry. Exactly. A lot of corsetry in this section. Yeah, there's a... A metaphorical city, courtistry. Court... Courtistry. Courtistry. That too.

A Pepe is Pepe and there is no changing him or as it were her. Labels are such unhelpful things, I feel. Big mood, big gender mood. I like my favourite bit about Pepe is the the self-description of only people who are very trustworthy would dare to look as untrustworthy as me and Madame. Can't argue with that, but would you in this moment, of course not. Absolutely not. And the reveal that he's sort of recently joined Dwarf.

It's a conversion. Yeah. I know a lot about Uberworld for a boy from Lobin Cloud. Yeah. I mean, we've learnt in previous books that there's no real reason is that because Carrot. Carrots adorph was brought up adorph. And he says I've done the Grosactis Zadda words with too much apostrophe.

Yeah. Heavy on the back, heavy on the apostrophe. And yeah, I guess if you can do about spot of a conversion, then why not? Yeah. See, I love everything about him as a character. I like the trope as well of someone unfamiliar with the kitchen, goes into the kitchen and starts looking for the booze. That's a silly trope that comes up a lot in this sort of book. I think we've had it in Discworld before and it always entertains me. Yeah, I'm only drinking the cider part, don't worry.

That will make me full on laugh out loud. Anyway, wizards. What of them? Ridcully. Oh, I love a book for so much Ridcully. Oh, I love having this much Ridcully. Demanding a go on the whistle. Before. I want to go before he's done.

There's a man who's not afraid to be loudly petulant. And then Evans the Striped manifests. Oh my gosh. Ridcully throws his face flushed from the neck upwards at speed. The sound of his next drawn breath was like the vengeance of the gods. His stomach expanded, his eyes became pinpoint, thunder rolled overhead and he roared, Why haven't you boys brought your kit? Okay, nice thing about having a cold is I can do the Ridiculie voice.

I love his response to Flora Bunder and the bacon sandwich. This is Flora Bunder who asked for a bacon sandwich from the Cabinet of Curiosity and went through the unfortunate experience of it being returned. A, it made me really want a bacon sandwich. Yes. God, I love a good bacon sandwich. But yes, decided to promote him for breaking a rule. I said a little bit, you know,

that the four-ning legends around Bill Gates or Steve Jobs or whichever one it was, he was like, I'm going to promote somebody who yells back at me in a meeting. Yes, that kind of thing. Definitely hints of that. And then Ponder is having the time. I feel like every time I say Ponder, I follow up with he's having a time. He's is having a time. I feel like every time I say Ponder,

I follow up with he's having a time. He's always having a time. Some of it's quite self-inflicted, I'd say, but yes. There's, I like the picking team stuff. It's funny, all the stuff about sort of old school PE and kick about some things, you know, brought up some trauma, but it's long enough ago that it's entertaining trauma.

Like you pick a team member and then he picks a team member until you've enough team members or you've run out of team members who aren't grossly fat or trembling with nerves. At least that's how I remember it, Pondering, is you've spent too long standing next to the fat kid. Yes, well, of course, he's got an athlete's ear, erratic stigmatism, a grumbling nose and a revolving spleen. Yeah. Athletes here, erratic stigmatism, a grumbling nose and a revolving spleen. Yeah. And then he's outsmarted by Mr. Nutt despite trying to be like Condor Sending. Yeah, everything with Ponder and Nutt is great. But yeah, when the, it looks like things are going to kick off between, between Rick Cully and Henry. They speak. And Ponder stops them and says, the accumulated votes of all the posts I hold on the University Council means that I do technically control it. Yes.

That is after, you know, things have gone and one of the other wizards goes, I'm sorry, we've given you too much work. You should sort that out when you've got a minute. Yeah. Oh, literally. Too familiar. Yeah, did that one hit you quite personally? Oh, yes, Mr. Stibbins has delegated though. He has delegated to Nutt. To Nutt. Do we have Hex in here as a character? We don't do we so I'm just doing a quick,

no, no, it's cool. I'm just going to nest him under Ponder. Very freaky addition with the mask. Oh yeah, they wanted to have something to talk to in the cabinet of curiosity room, so they put a creepy mask on the wall. Yeah, sounds much worse to me. I wonder if that's referencing anything. Listeners answers on a floppy disk. But also just sounds like a recipe for disaster. That mask is going to end up possessed and sent to you.

I mean, it is, isn't it? Well, yes. But it's going to separate itself off from Hex somehow and go running around doing things. Yes, all right. Also, Ponda's reaction to turnip seed. Very funny. Because, hey, oh, Spirit of Scientific Discovery crossing borders, this and the other. I don't suppose he's mentioned having to re-program the Blitz Lullabong interface. No, well, never mind. I suppose we'll, we'll, a very humorous foreshadow. Rincewind is here.

Rincewind is having a lovely day. I love Rincewind. I love Rincewind in this. I like Rincewind as like a side character just getting to be at the university. Yes, he's like horrors. Yeah, horrors. I know.

Horrors. Horrors, horrors. Horrors. Horrors. And when the football starts, Nisa sort of says, oh, permission to go and get a note from my mother, sir. Prince Wind, you once informed me to my everlasting puzzlement that you never knew your mother because she ran away before you were born. To simply remember writing it down in my diary. We should go and find my mother, sir. But Rick Cully's logic is he's a luck sponge. So if we keep him around, then if something horrible based on this whole football thing does happen, it'll happen to him.

It's fine. Yeah. Are we going to luggage cameo? Yeah, the luggage has to go. It actually happened to somebody else. So that was nice. So yeah, it turns out it can't play football. It just spins around on the ball, which felt a little bit like Pratchett answering the question before the readers could ask it. Yes, a little. Like all the readers are going to go, why isn't the luggage playing the football? Here's why the luggage isn't playing the football.

This is funny, other me saying there's a rule against the luggage playing the football. Yes. Or it's that thing you get in like superhero movies and stuff sometime where like one character is a bit too OP so they need to find a reason to like take them off the board or the plot won't work. Speaking of OP characters, Bingo Macarono. Wee! Visiting Professor from Genua who I mostly mentioned because it gives me another one of my favourite Rid Cully moments which is when Ponda is explaining that there was a

divorce position and an angry wife and Rid Cully eventually gets it. And Ponda's sort of cringing expecting something unpleasant and then Fridt Cully says, well, a lot of sort of that sort of thing about apparently, we can make such a fuss. Anyway, in my opinion, there's not a lot of love in the world. Besides, if you didn't like the company of men, you wouldn't come here in the first place. I say, well done that man. And Ponder's like, well, as a matter of fact, the quite a lot of students, Fridt Cully's like, we don't have to have a proper conversation about that. Turns out I'm fine with it. So, allowing the eventually LGBTQ society and the eventual Outmorpore Pride March.

Despite the insistence of some people who just refuse to read the books properly, I feel like that's another one of practice is answering some questions before he's asked them. Yeah, it's like, no, they're not homophobic. Turns out we're not bigots. Hey, unless I'm writing a story about bigotry, everyone's probably alright. And even if I am, almost everyone will come around. You'll know if I'm writing a story about bigotry. Yeah, he's not like, doesn't do a light touch on the bigotry thing. Geryl- Yeah, sasslty. Smeams. So many of these wizard-related characters I put in just because I really like their

interactions with veterinary. Geryl- I could have brought up the font of Smeams as well. Not only good rhymes, but because Smeams is very smeamy. Geryl- Smeamy. It is very smeamy. He's interceding and expecting praise when he catches not having an opinion on football at Ridgully. And authority must back up authority in public at least, otherwise there's no authority.

And therefore the senior authority is forced to back up the junior authority, even if he, the senior authority, believes that the junior authority is a tiresome little tit. Yep. Are almost all of these other characters just more Ridgully moments, by the way? Yeah, pretty much. Perfect. Good. Yeah. That's what I wanted. Oh, and Glenda, she gets so frustrated with him yelling at Nut and goes in and calms.

This is with her new, oh wait, there's no invisible mallet thing. She goes in calms thing down and some says, I think you should be off, don't you? Yes. Well, I can't stand around here all day. I've got things to do. Everything about Smeems makes my skin crawl in the best way. Like, I think we've all had to deal with a Smeems at some point. Yeah, yeah. And they're fairly easy to deal with because they will just talk themselves

into this was my idea. Yeah. But it's just... But it's still odious dealing with them. Yeah. All right. And then our visitor, Dean Henry, Archchancellor of Brazenet University, two chairs. I'm grateful backstabbing Slimy Bastard, but that takes a bit long to say.

I really love that him and Ridcully are kind of squaring up a bit and then they calm down once Adrian goes without an audience. They casually offer each other, offers him a smoke. It does make sense actually. That does, like, intuitively as it happens. You're like, oh yeah. That is what they're like. There's, actually on that page where the offers the cigarette. There's a reference to the Al Spring tips diagram, talking about like wizards blowing up in size as they go, which according to L Space Wiki is refers to the Hertzsprung Russell diagram, which plots the absolute magnitude of stars against their spectral class. So I'm not going to try and explain that any further. I'm just going to

link something about it because... Yeah, but basically it does mean small thing become big diffuse thing. Yeah, pretty much. But space. But in space, or in this case in wizard... In wizard. ...Ridicully takes his mic, but he took care not to notice the words Arch Chancellor's choice in garish type on the packet.

And it would be garish Garrosh type on the packet. Geryll And it would be Garrosh type because it's the Dean. Geryll It would be. Geryll I'm surprised he hasn't got leather and studs around somewhere. Geryll I think he outgrew that after Soul Music. Geryll But yeah, everything about the Dean sort of trying to make himself into Ridcully light this competition with the new university.

Geryll It's so fun. Geryll No admitting that they don't have the budget for banquet. And Ridcully being genuinely sorry. This is if a relative had died. Yeah. Henry. We never knew it was called Henry. No, we know now. To me, he will always be Dean.

Yeah. It's interesting that it's, he doesn't have a surname. So, um, practice referring to Ridcully and Henry when the... Yes. Although Ridcully gets called Musterum, it is still Ridcully and Henry, when the... Yes. Although Ridcully gets called Musterum, it is still Ridcully and Henry. I really like talking with Adrian Ternepseed, the description of him appearing. They're appeared from behind the self-styled arch-chancellor of Brazenek, like a moonlit moving out of the shadow of a gas giant, a sheepish young man who instantly reminded Ridcully of Ponder Stevens. Of course, we have met

Adrian Tanebsi before he was hanging around the High Energy Manage building for quite a while. He was there in Hogfather and all sorts. I'm imagining this new university like a strawberry, you know, how they asexual reproduction. That's why they're similar. In Pseudopolis. And yes, pecs powered by chickens. there. Similar. In Pseudopolis, and yes, pecs powered by chickens. And Pseudopolis isn't the perfect place to have not quite a university. Absolutely.

Sorry, pecs. Yeah, pecs powered by chickens. More efficient because we also get eggs we can eat. They're bigger. Everybody knows that chickens, the most organised species, ants left in the dust. The most horrible thing is that pecks get described in the Power by Chickens and all I can think is that that must fucking reek. Oh yeah.

Anyway, Trev. Likely. There's, for the second time in the book, we had in the first section, he just happened to be the person that Ridicully walked past who gave him a kick of the can and told him when a game was happening. And now we get again, it just happens to be him walking past with Nutt just as there was his need to send someone out to get the second ball made. Yeah.

Because I like him to the religion about it all, and bit of a magic. All right, all circumstance, and it's not drawn drawn attention to so it could just be narrative convenience, but but I like to think there's something else. All of it's a bit like that, isn't it? Yeah. And I really like that your quote, where he starts thinking about worth. And he keeps watching that make the ball. It occurred to him in all his life, he'd made a few candles and a lot of mess.

How much was he worth? You're such a young man, lots and lots of time to start accumulating worth. Yeah, but it's interesting to see where this idea of accumulating worth is quite possibly not healthy mentally for Nutt, because he possibly overdoes it sometimes. It's the opposite thing with Trev where he maybe needs that to give him the push to start doing something more than just being in charge of candle vats. Yeah, and I feel like, you know, Nutt's little bits of guidance for Trev aren't taking him anywhere near Nutt's level of... No, Nutt is not trying to make another Nutt.

He's just like, here's five dollars and the receipt and go give that back to Ponda. And this will help you be thought of in this way rather than in that way. Yeah, not a Scallywag anymore. But yeah, he still gets bitter quickly when reminded of his dad. You know, they start pushing him to play because he's Dave-likely's dad. So yeah, and then he died in the street with the rain washing his blood down the gusser and someone to smelly overcoat over him. Yeah.

But yeah, we got a hint more of the extent of his tin kicking talent when he like makes it fly around somebody's head. It makes it fly around ponders neck like a necklace. Yeah, yeah. Which again, and no background magic here. I can't remember which of the, oh, this thing magically appeared in the universe set off the soundbometer and which ones didn't. Glenda talking about football and the shove. I mean the other film I think. Oh right yeah. Because there's been a few of these like the idea is time has come through

cursed objectual location. Yeah like soul music was very cursed the truth and the printing press was not you know because we all remember what happened to the Three Jolly Luck Fish Takeaway Bar at the site of Dagon Street. I can't remember the whole bit now. Mr. Hong's Three Jolly Luck Takeaway Fish Bar on Dagon Street. Exactly. But this one's got a hint of the religion.

Yes, this one's got a hint of the religion, this idea of pedestriana. And so I guess tribes may be a little bit of an avatar. Quite possibly, but he doesn't want to be. And he said there's a cream for that. And then not to actually do a whole lot in this section that we get to see. But I love how quickly he takes to training other people. He does loads. He doesn't come in until later on in the section, but yeah, he trains people,

he explains all the tactics and stuff, he finds out what the ball is and gets the copies made. Oh yeah, true. Maybe he just didn't write enough to. He crushes the handy hand. That bit was great. I love that bit. That was great. But yeah, no, I was noticing actually like a good halfway through this section. I was like, we haven't seen nothing once yet. Yeah, I think it's he comes in a bit later section. I was like, we haven't seen nothing once yet.

Yeah, I think it's he comes in a bit later on. And then what he a lot of what he does is like off screen. Yes, like there's a lot of explanation. Yeah. Yeah. The ballmaking gets a bit montaged. Yeah. The training, the footballers, Ditto, I love the whole thing of taking them to the ballet, though. Yeah. Yeah.

And the fact that they're all willing to go along with it. Yeah. It's another little wipe on, wipe off moment, isn't it? Yeah. Wax on, wax off. Wax on. Yeah, sorry. Still never seen that movie, so close enough to a reference. I haven't, I just experienced a really bad date related to it. What works on works off? Anyway. Juliet. She barely dusts. Ponda still like figuring out he's not sure what to make of Nutt and this is a great line, he'd been cheeked by a dribbler even if Nutt was the most incontinently erudite one he'd

ever encountered. Yes. It's incontinently erudite is an incredible phrase. And Vettnari and Ridcully keeping an eye on him, like knowing he's dangerous, suspecting he might be dangerous. Yeah. And the Dean speaking out of turn near him. Yeah, which he has no reaction to that we see. We'll find out why.

Next one. Yes, the danger lurks at the reading ahead. Yes, I'm pretty. Next one. Yes, so if that's an R.I. I quite like the way he gets speculated about by the commoners, the Hoypalloy, one of the ways of saying, oh yeah, the lady's like him. Of course, everyone knows he's got something going on with our vampire. But yeah, I didn't think about the veterinarian as like potentially an object of attraction.

Gery Leroy I was forced to think about it once more when Drum Knot introduces Glenda as a maid. But now I'm going, well, I can't help her with that. Like that's something that might come off every now and then. I'm sick of turning you young ladies away. This is not part of my job. I'm going to get like me finding veterinary attractive, but that's because I have like weird things about people in power. Well, yeah, we're deeply troubled people.

Yeah, doesn't mean I think he's hot. But yeah, the fact that he's got a world's greatest boss mug, highly entertaining. Who bought it for him? I like to think Moist bought it for him. I like to think Moist was given it and passed it on to Veteranari. Yes, that, or no, that's got to be Moist, isn't it? I was going to say it could have been like Fred Colen or something, or Nobby Knob's thinking they were doing something sweet but that would be to Vimes because that Nari's not their boss.

Yeah, no. Vimes definitely has one too though. Oh yeah, Vimes definitely has one. Maybe it's like a snow globe. They just start appearing in offices. Corporate nonsense! He's still fighting this crossword compiler and he's sure that he's gone from being suspicious of the women in Pelagal's steps to being sure that she's now compiling the crosswords. And he gets the nice line alongside that of women have to have devious minds, they have

to cope with men. Yes, drum-knot kind of just the thoughtfully, oh well I hear women have devious minds, sir. Drum-knot, the first scenario, you know, if you saw a ball sitting there invitingly, would you cook it? Kick it. How exactly is the invitation couched? Is there a note? Just drum-not's absolute steadfast does not see where he would kick the ball. You're a pillar of rock in a world of changes. He's quite Mr. Bentish, isn't he?

He is, but in a,he's a different flavour of Mr Bentish and it's all very sweet. Vettanari's talking about packs of jobs and says something about drum not ever paying for paperclips and after Glenda's gone, he's very calmly. I'm not like he thought that I do not buy my own paperclips at. I enjoy owning my own paperclips, it means that they are mine. I thought it helpful I should tell you that in a measured, non-confrontational way. Gery And then I'd also love Vettanari's response just like, no, no, I didn't

highlight it properly. They are just looking at the ceiling for several seconds and going, thank you, drum not, I will amend the record accordingly. It's like, how am I responding to this? Am I going to tell him that I was only joking? I'm like, no, thank you drum not. Thank you drum not. And yeah, everything about Vettanari, because you as a reader when the banquet's happening and he's drinking all of this beer and it's from the same flag and I think the readers are looking for like the magic trick as much as a Glendor is. Yeah. So it's very nice when he just admits the next day, I'm drunk.

I'm pissed. I am very good at acting like I'm not. It's just fun. It's a very fun thing that we've not had before. It's like granny with the fire. Yes. Like this is extremely painful as it happens. Actually, no, I am in agony. I'm just good at it. Better at this than you, that's all. Glang Snorrison, I've only really put him because I really like his name, I'm going to be honest. But I do like, he's sort of trying to get rid of the customers by muttering

in Dwarf-ish because no one speaks Dwarf-ish if they're not on the watch and then not speaking perfect Clamadocean Dwarf-ish. Such incivility to the amiable stranger, shames your beard and erases the writings of TAC, ancient merchants. Well fuck, what do you want? And we know how hurtful that is. Erases the writings of TAC. Yeah. Blackboard monitor. Also just a detail in that they're talking about the brimstone rubber and he asked how he's heard of it and that says,

Oh because Reese the low king of the dwarves gave Lady Margalotta a brimstone rubber and leather dress. Kingie? I want to know more about the rubber and leather dress that the King of the Dwarfs gave to Lady Margolotta. Yeah, I mean, I'm imagining it like, oh gosh, you know some of that leather work that people are doing now that makes it look like silk almost. Oh yeah.

It's going to be like that. But on the other hand, you could imagine it more like the old chairman's special cupboard. It's really up to the imagination of the reader. And if you're lint towards the latter, know that I'm silently judging you. Loretta Not silently. In fact, I'm publicly and audibly in this audio format. Gaby I just hope she's got a nice card again to pair it with. Loretta And that it doesn't chafe. Gaby Because we know that it doesn't chafe. Speaking of Reese the low king, um, uh, the Grags-

Speaking of chafing. Speaking of chafing, um, the Grags complaining about Juliette and this undwarfishness and uh, effectively telling the Grags to fuck off, which is nice. Yes. I'm sick of this. I'm sick of you constantly fucking arguing. We've done this argument. We've got the Coon Valley Accord. Can everyone just fucking chill? And it's revealed he's

been gifted some micro mail himself by Madame Charn. And it's a nice look at another level of dwarf politics, which is how a like dwarf that's successful and like more pork might need to deal with the back home rules. Yeah. And but he said like he's explicitly invited her back. Yeah. And allowing them to set up and they get to have the business relationship with where they're from. Or where she's from, obviously. Pepe's from Lob and Clow. And then, oh yeah, Variety Pushpram, little cameo. Girlboss.

Girlboss. She's got a bit of a seafood empire building up, couple of boats. Love that for her. I mean, she is only in this book to hit Glenda in the face with the book Central Metaphore, just in case we'd missed it. Well, yeah, but she could have done that from a cart, but perhaps it gave us the gift of knowing that she's done so well. Thank goodness she didn't marry Nobby. Guess like, gatekeep girlboss all the way. And then locations I want to talk about shatter quickly, the fashion show and the fancy dwarf boutique. If you started laughing at things like that, you'd never have time to breathe.

Which is another one where I think we had that similar joke about a bonk. Yes, that's right. Enabled. When Shatter gets introduced, there's a lovely little paragraph about up versus down for dwarfs. But then it starts talking about the digging down in Antmoorpork. It was Lord Veterinary's grand undertaking, which is something we've been talking about. Corsetry. The city's walls corseted it like a fetishist's happiest dream. Gravity offered only a limited supply of up, but on the deep loam of the plain

had a limitless supply of down. And I've only just realised, and I've read these books so many times, I've seen this like Antmoorpke Industrial Revolution arc happen. Normally when you see a society advancing it's depicted with skyscrapers, and this is Ang Moorpke skyscrapers, they're just going the other way. I was thinking about it because I mean, I rewatched the animated Avatar because the live action one came out. And I've just moved on to Legend of Korra. And it's like 100 years later. And now there are skyscrapers and things and cars, because they don't do fantasy stagnation in that show, which is cool. But yes, skyscrapers are like the emblem of civilization has gone forward.

Yes. So yeah, thinking about it is, I'm not going to come up with a word for it, but downward skyscrapers. No, you're right. Mantle scrapers or something like that, wouldn't it be? But I don't know how the disk geology works. So yeah, that's not thinking about it too much. We might come out the other end of the disk. Yeah, that's a good point. They should really work that out before they start. Please keep an eye on that. Yeah. And then, yeah, you get the shop interior and the really nice description of the like subtly feminine, female, chainmail and weaponry to off women were metaphorically melting down their breastplates in order to make something a little lighter with adjustable straps.

Back of house during the catwalks. Amazing. Like the whole panic of the pre-fashion show. G. But with the forge. L. But yeah, yeah. G. Without it welding. L. More welding in fashion shows. G. Ten rabbits rather than running stitches or whatever. L. Yeah, yeah. I love that. Like the equivalent of bulldog clips. G. Yeah. L. And yeah, and then when you find the around the back that Glenda sort of wanders into at the far end or a pair of double doors, probably ashamed to let in a grey light which did not so much illuminate as a cues.

God, practically really a fucking top of the game with terms of phrase in this one. But I like this idea of you seeing this, the arse end as Pepe describes it. They're in there with a glycerin finery and it's all muck and rubbish around the back. You look like a lady who can spots a metaphor when she stares it in the face. And if you then compare that to this like upstairs, downstairs thing we're looking at with the university. And of course, the back is not like that. Well, the out the back of the university where they throw away the dribbly candles probably is because that's how you get talking rats.

I was going to say at the back of the university several dimensions. Yeah, thinking of the night kitchen as this downstairs equivalent, like it's not like that. It is, you know, you can eat your dinner off those plates. Yeah. Anyway, yeah, I thought that was all really fun and interesting. Have you ever tried to make a pickled onion pie, by the way? So, no.

I was playing with, could I do something along that theme for the Patreon recipe this month? And I'm going to do my cheddar cheese short cross pastry. And then I'm gonna play with a couple of things with that, but I think I'm gonna do like a balsamic caramelized onion galette with that pastry. Nice. Like a classy version. We do find out later how the pickles onions are done.

Don't we? We do find out later. I was going to try and make like a plowman's pie, but she says something about cheddar in the pastry. So and I have a good cheddar short crust already and be like, I feel like a lot of the pies that have been described to like hot water crust style, like pork pie type pies and I hate making those with fiery passion. Oh, okay, sure.

Yeah, you have to use gelatin and things, and I'm just, I'm not doing it. Fair, absolutely fair. Yeah. I think maybe I just want a pickled onion. I do really. I'm going to buy some pickled onions. Yeah, me too. Anyway.

Always makes me think of an any-orgo pickled onion. No singularity. Spear on her singularity. Yeah. Anyway, sorry, we've gone way off track and about 30 years back. Right, little bits we liked. Coolbacks. Coolbacks.

I just liked that we've got a few of them studied through this that this is kind of an almost cool back to start with. Did we agree, Mr. Stibbins? Said Rick Kelly, turning around sharply. Or did you agree with yourself? Pee pee me, as it were. Well, I think I understood the spirit of your thinking, sir. Just a little bit poly perks.

Very much so. We've got Glenda thinking. It was a funny thing. Every day something happened, and that was important enough to be on the front page of the newspaper. Yes, that's a nice call back to the truth. We get the explicit call back to Rincewind saving the world in half a brick of sock. Ponder looked across at Rincewind now and he was hopping awkwardly on one leg trying to put a sock back on.

He thought it better not to comment. It was probably the same sock. I just like, it's very touching to me that Prince Wind is watching the Dean and the art chancellor argue and is preparing to do something again by taking a sock off and looking for a brick. Especially nicely. That's his response and it's the hat that they're arguing about, the art chancellor's hat, which was the entire plot of sorcery. Yes, that's a good point. And then a couple of ones like Queen in Sea of Lanka being mentioned

and Ember Ella and Fairy Stories being mentioned. Yeah. Which is a problem. And then Pepe completely losing track of that metaphor, which I found very relatable. What do you mean? We've never led a metaphor loose. Only to track it down several minutes later. Don't mention trifle. It's happened again. Joanna. Oh yeah, so sort of cool about it, but the poetry thing getting paid off

when the poem actually gets delivered. Clenda reads it for Juliet. It read as though someone had turned on the poetry tap and then absentmindedly gone on holiday. But they were wonderful words nonetheless. There was the word swain, for example, which was a definite marker, and quite a lot about flowers and quite a lot of what looked like pleading wrapped up in fancy letters. And after a while, she took out her handkerchief and fan to the air around her face. And then she translates it for Juliet. Well, basically, he's saying that he really fancies you, thinks you really fit. How about a date? No hanky-panky, he promises. Full circle CIRCLE. I just thought that was really wonderful how that all came back around.

It was. I think we've gone from Shakespearean to Byron-esque as well in the tone. Yes, there's definitely a hint of Byron. If we've got Swains, we've gone towards the Romantics. Anyway, human skulls, Joanna. Speaking for romantic. Yeah, talking about his Hicks. Hicks gets loads of fun moments just his constant skull ring. Yeah. When he was like making Tonka jokes, knocking Ridcully out and Ridcully gets possessed by Evans the Striped. And yeah, and then they're talking about a human skull as a football or human head as a football that I like talking about what the first ball possibly wasn't.

He immediately goes into, well, yeah, but unless it's in a bag or some sort of metal brace, then you've got the problem of weight because human head comes in around 10 pounds, pain in the foot, scooping it out would work, but you've got to wire the jaw because no one wants to be bitten in the foot. I've got some heads if anyone wants to experiment. Gullwing, remember? And I feel like I know there's a bit in the next section that Pat Harkin was consulted on. I feel like he might have been asked about that too. Oh, certainly. Yeah, just in passing perhaps. Yes. Your favourite spoon, Francine?

So this is mentioned in the book when Pepe is explaining to Glenda why people want to talk to jewels. Basically, yeah, they want to find out, you know, what a make-up is, what a makeup is, what a favourite book is, what a favourite spoon is. And that's a known Pratchett thing is referring to puff pieces of the, you know, what kind of breakfast do you like that you get in the newspapers? He calls them my favourite spoon pieces. But what I didn't know, I saw this in a review of Unseen Academicals in The Guardian. It is for our amusement that Pratchett has challenged himself to make his characters occasionally mention, as if naturally, the matter of their favourite spoon. It is an homage to the private eye column, me and my spoon, itself a mockery of celebrity

tediousness. Oh, I didn't know you get it from Private Eye. Yeah, modified Private Eye. Marvelous. What is your favourite spoon, Francine? Do you have a favourite spoon? I'm sure I must. I quite like just a good tea...

I've got big cutlery preferences. I like thin, flat cutlery. Not round cutlery. We've got both sorts. But the round one never gets used It's even though I don't like it or we will pick out the the flat stuff every time and use that instead Yeah, I think a medium-sized flat teaspoon. I I feel strongly about I like to eat my desserts with a teaspoon if I have like a bowl of ice cream or something I like to eat with a teaspoon. Yeah, exactly. It's the right size. Oh, wait, no. Jack whittled me a spoon with a dog head

on it, so that's what I like best. But not sweet with. How about you? You gave me my favourite spoon. You got me a really nice olive wood wooden spoon that I cook with a lot, and it's exactly right for stirring around the pans I've got, so that's my favourite spoon. Oh, super. I'm glad it's working out well. I've got one crappy tiny wooden spoon, or not tiny but like compared to, it's small compared to a normal wooden spoon that I love purely because it's the only one I've got that doesn't have a little hole in the handle because I don't, I'm not a spoon hanger.

And I like having one. She's a spoon hanger, Jerry. I like using the handle end to, to stir up bread dough. So I like having one that doesn't have a little hole because then you're trying to clean the dough out of the hole. On the other side of that, I was given a spoon with a heart shaped hole in the spoon bit, like a wooden spoon. Our spoons with holes in the spoon bit are saying for anything. I mean, that sounds like you're into Welsh love spoon territory.

It might be. It was an anniversary present from the in-laws. Yeah. They're lovely spoons. But I was wondering if like a spoon with a hole in it was like a We are like slots in spune and stuff. Yeah. Yeah, I guess it would work like a slot as spinae. I was just wondering if it was like a thing for I'm no stirring milk into a goat. Yeah, thanks. I was looking for a culinary term. Thanks, mate. Really thought you'd help me with that flower

brick. I'm going to get a farmyard out of all this. You said milk, I thought goat's milk. It made a lot more sense than we had. I was just talking the other day to Jack about spider goat milk. What? You know, when they genetically modified a goat so you can milk spiders' web out of it. What? That was the thing.

Okay. Right. Well, we'll not go further in between in case it upsets you. Yeah, I've really don't... No spiders appear any further. It's just that you could extract spider silk from the milk of these goats. Okay. I'm just picturing goats with eight legs now and that's terrifying in about eight different

directions. Yeah, there we go. That goats with eight legs now and that's terrifying in about eight different directions. There we go. So I thought my hat might have some so. Anyway, Welsh love spoons are cool. Love a Welsh love spoon. Let's talk about crab buckets, shall we? Which like is us moving on to more serious stuff, but it does not make sense out of context. Anyway, enough of Welsh love spying and eight-legged goats. Crab buckets, that's far more sensible. Yep. I kind of love the fact that we've come into this like so well versed in the metaphor of crab bucket that

it's difficult to put yourself back in Glenda's shoes when Pepe starts talking about crab buckets and she's like, fuck you for him out. Yeah, because this is where it first heard. This is this is where I first heard the metaphor, although is used outside of this book, practically invent it. Oh, yeah, so I meant to look up to see what the earliest one I could find of it was and I forgot the end. But so I love that you get the metaphor first, and then that's allowed to

percolate in the reader's mind, at least even if Glenda largely forgets about it. And then she's kind of she sees the metaphor and the flesh or in the Kite and if you will. Yeah. And some of the goes, Oh, fuck, no, I get it now. A little bit. Well, Juliet's like crabnickless. Yeah. But yes, I love the idea of being yeah, slapped in the face with a metaphor like that as you put it. Yes. Oh, just having a horrified reaction to the seafood you've just ordered. Geryl- Yeah, and then she ends up sort of keeping the crab as a pet, which I thought was quite a sweet detail. Geryl- Met with crabby approval was one of my favourite tiny little lines in there. Yeah,

and then Verity really rubs it in unintentionally with like thick as planks, a lot of them. You can't keep in a bucket without a lid. Anything that tries to get out gets pulled back. Yes, thick as planks. Yeah, it's not subtle. And then Glenda gets that like, hurried recap realisation of people from the sisters disapproving when a girl gets the trolleybust, that's crab bucket. Practically everything my mum ever told me that's crab bucket. Practically everything I've ever told you yet, that's crab bucket. Practically everything my mum ever told me. That's crab bucket. Practically everything I've ever told Juliet. That's crab bucket. Maybe it's just another word for the shove. And then the worst of it, the crab that mostly keeps you down is you, which I'm not sure the metaphor might fall apart slightly there.

No, but it does work in context. And it's something like, you and I get so infuriated about, but I don't know how much we've talked about in the podcast before this horrible idea. A while ago we went on about it quite a lot, I can't remember in which context, but it's been a while, yeah. Is this not getting ideas about your station? Yes, we find it amusing in Granny Weatherwax context because she absolutely does good ideas but well, no, she doesn't because her station is above everybody else's. Yeah.

But she never says it. She's too humble. I's the champion of humble. She's the most humble. The moment when Juliet says to Glenda like, Oh, they think I could model full time. But you've already got a steady job in the kitchen. Yeah, later more often than she liked, she remembered saying those words while the applause thundered around them. Yeah. It's a nice set up because that's before Glenda's had the realisation and that later comes within like a hundred pages. Yes, she's she's primed herself for this, hasn't she? She's starting to feel this kind of way. And then yeah, Pepe maybe starts the ball rolling or kicks it a bit further along. She starts thinking about it more and then snatched in the face with a football slash metaphor. No metaphorical

orangutan to stop it and just as well. So I was trying while I was reading this bit to kind of identify the different types of crab buckets, the different flavours, so we break down this metaphor past it's useful. So I've got parochial and domestic crab buckets. So we've got the Dolly sisters and the way that looking at the troll, the trolling and the trolly, which by the way, I loved that a trolly is a troll. Yeah. Yeah, the curtain twitching kind of Dolly sisters and no, you can't get out of here or whatever. And that's kind of tied in with the domestic crab bucket of then Glendor eventually going, shut up, shut up, stop thinking like your mother, just go and sit in the

down front row. And, and realising that she's never let Juliet make pies. And that's why she's no good at it. And it turns out she is. And she's like, Oh, fuck, I'm a crab bucket in my crab bucket. But then that's like the main crab bucket, I think definitely this bit. But then I thought we've got some like side crab buckets and crab bucketettes, if you will. But there are large crab buckets, but side crab buckets in this main story. Yeah, so we got the traditional crab buckets. We got that of the dwarves and the wizards, which is definitely mentioned. Old tribal customs as Pepe or Madame, I can't remember which puts it. They hold us back, always

pull us back, we haul ourselves out of the mine, but somehow we always drag a bit of the mine with us. I think that's Madame. Yeah. And then the low King going on about, and I'm fed up gentlemen with your whining, moaning and endless, endless attempts to refight battles. And I think he's just watching them crab bucket each other. He's like, no, no, you can't do that to me as it happens. And we've learnt this through the Koon Valley Accord and things. And then Rick Gully and the Dean obviously kind of hashing this out about the new university, kind of tipping the crab bucket over on this one. And I find the university one really interesting because like from a reader's perspective,

we kind of want the Dean to come back to the unseen university just because we want to have the Dean there. Yeah, we'll crab bucket these fuckers. Yeah, like a reader will crab bucket it because a reader enjoys status quo. But actually the upset status quo does make for more interesting story and watching Henry and Mustram snipe at each other is more fun than watching them do it in the context of the Dean still being part of the UU stuff. That's like practice, like in the early days, if he'd let the readers have their way,

it would have just been 10 Rintzwind books. Yeah. We didn't need that. No, even I, I think, would have got a little bit sick of his... If nothing else, just felt so bad for him. And then I like... I don't think this is stretching the metaphor too far, but you kind of got the class crab bucket as well, which kind of is the bigger crab bucket holding all the other crab buckets.

Oh, the class is not stretching the metaphor at all. The class thing is the crab bucket. It's keep yourself in the shove, the shove being very working class. Everything about the football being so working class. The being part of the domestic classes is it's all class. Yeah, it's I should have been more careful, Glenda Wanderowney, don't get chatty with knobs, you forget what you are, but they don't kind of thing. Yeah. It's this and then Rick Kelly feeling as he put his his grandfather kick him in the hereditary. And seeing like something of her expression in Trebleykely's face, and just the upstairs, downstairs of it all, but also the glender very much just pulling herself up a level,

not even up a level, but like maybe shouting up from that level. They're like, hi, turns out we're all human beings and I have an opinion. And now I'm terrified because I've accidentally started opinioning at the tradition, but it'll be fine. It'll be fine. But then she also she does physically put herself on a different level because she starts doing day kitchen things to get as I'm involved, like, inviting herself to be one of the waitresses at the banquet, despite what Mrs. Whitlow might think. I haven't put Mrs. Whitlow in characters but I love the references to the creaking Shatterland. Mrs. Whitlow has created the class divide between the two kitchens and Glenda

crosses that line and gets away with it because she's kind of caught Ridcully's eye a bit. So he does this, oh yeah, you should keep this one. She's good. And of course, Mrs. Whitlow's not going to argue with the Arch Chancellor, is she? No, obviously not. She will look upset in a way Ridcully might not notice, but Glendor definitely will put the fear of God in her a bit. With the curses that Ridicully finds annoying. Geryl- That's been never say so. Geryl- But would never say so, of course not. Geryl- Yeah.

Geryl- Because the university would fall apart without Mrs. Switlow. So the crab bucket when it comes to football is really interesting because Glenda's very heavy handed there. So even after she has these crab bucket realizations, we were talking about it, you know, her running after people like the seven-year year olds on the playground and having to do this with the football captains. But she's sort of crab butting at them, especially with football of pulling things down. So at the banquet, she looks at the menu, oh, you're giving them a VEC to these look like people who have literally eaten a foreign language. And of course, they're

fine with it because they're drunk and it's food, they'll just shovel it down and take a bit of cutlery with it. And she feels responsible for them the way she does for Juliet, stupid and silly and thoughtless. But it was up to her to protect their interests, they'd been dropped into a world they didn't understand. So she had to understand it for them, which I think you said that quite earlier as well. Yeah, it's quite sweet at the same time as being very frustrating for her. But what I like is something Prashita's really well, which is to present tube size of something and not make a moral judgment of it, especially when we're kind of in a

mid stage of the book. So with this, it's the football. Is Glenda protecting football as something that shouldn't belong to the knobs and shouldn't be taken by the upper classes? Yeah. Or is she pulling it back down into the crab bucket? Yeah. And it's nice. As you say, that you get the two sides.

I think you get to see the different and the crab motivations. Yeah. You get like, you get like, N.V. is the like least generous one. And there is definitely some of that, especially maybe with the curtain twitching. But you also get like fear and love being motivations, like fear for Juliet and love for Juliet or in this case, yeah, love for football, even though she doesn't love it, you know what I mean? She doesn't love it, but she feels like she's got more of a right to feel how she feels about it.

Because she is feeling it from within as opposed to literally looking down on it. Yeah. Yeah. In the case of the librarian. And she gets frustrated with it. You know, she looks at the front page the next day, she confronts a veterinary with you're taking their football away from them. And yet she hated the idiot fighting and the mindless shoving, but it was hers to hate. It was something that people themselves have put together and rickety and stupid though it was, it was theirs. And now knobs were again picking up something that wasn't theirs and saying how wonderful it was. And yeah, I think that's just a really interesting thing to play with once you've

introduced this idea of the crab bucket to it of now should football stay there because it should belong to the people that created it or could it be elevated and especially with the extra motivations of the violence around it, the elevating it will make it safer. And is it elevating it as a question? Is this, can we call this a crab bucket if we're not sure if we're elevating it? And then yeah, to artist's glenders like anger when Vettanara is like successfully leading them on with the bad jokes and everything, yeah. Yeah.

And she's talking about the razor blade in the candy floss. Yes. Yes. Veteranari's candy floss, not a good snack. But within this, you get this bit of the Music Master writing chance and again, Glenda kind of smirking at it. There are some things that definitely deserve to be smacked out, like the the bosom you use. Of course. Well done, Glenda. Well done, Glenda. One of the only sort of people who can use the

word bosoms. And so the music masters written this thing and said, it's ours, my best work scored for 40 people. Will football fans sing it? And he says, is it not the duty of the educated classes to raise the standards of the lower orders? And Rudecully's sort of muscles maybe not a Saturday. Yeah. But it's such a patronizing look at it. It is. It really is, yeah.

And it completely ignores this idea that the chance come organically from the shove, which is a really beautiful idea. And although you don't see them ever argue about it, Glenda and not are at odds in this. Glenda is trying to cling to the shove, the shove flavour of football and keep it where it belongs. I don't know if they are at odds exactly. I think Glenda's trying to keep it maybe a bit more, but not loved the shove. He loved the feeling of it and he knows.

I think he sees some of the beauty of what it can be. But he's not trying to vet an aria. He's not trying to vet an aria, but he's the one trying he's trying to create something more beautiful out of it. He's not trying to elevate it in a class this way. He's trying to elevate it into a more beautiful game. Yeah, because he loves the show. But he doesn't love the game. He didn't see the fucking game. There was no game to see. No, up until he kicked the ball and destroyed he doesn't love the game. He didn't see the fucking game. There was no game to see. No. Up until he kicked the ball and destroyed the goal post. So yeah, they're not, like I said, they're not fighting about it, but I think they're doing different things. Glenda

wants to keep it where it is. And Glenda wants the status quo. Nut wants to elevate it in a beautiful way. Veteran Ori wants their street bros. Yeah. Although I think by the end of this section, we're now at the point where there is no chance of it staying where it is. And so, I wonder what, yeah, what's Glenda's aim now is, well I suppose, you know, it's what everyone's aim would be, realistic, isn't it, to keep the PP care about safe. Yeah. It's a nice thing about Pratchett is that he doesn't always have to stick with the high-minded.

This is your character motivation. It can just be how a person would react in this situation. Yeah. Yeah, it's all very flexible and very human. But the actual writing about football and the idea of making it a beautiful game is really wonderful in this section. I mean, A, we've got the kind of de-familiarization

aspect of it of like the wizards are discussing football as it is on the streets of Antmoor Park from this. They saw it once, but it's very outside perspective. But we, the audience saw the inside of the shove and we saw it from the perspective of people who are in the shove, you know, Glenda and Juliet and Trevor there. So it is kind of de-familiarization and just that like we get something the wizards don't. Yes. And so when they're talking about, you know, the pies seem important

and they are usually constructed thusly. And we are therefore ahead on pies. Thanks to Glenda. That is one of my favourite wizard things, where they're just like, we have completed this gentleman. And it is incredibly unimportant. Yes, but tick, we have ticked a box. The idea of the chance originally being hymns to the goddess of football. Yeah. Just keeping the religion built in back around and I asked, aren't they underwater? Yes, yes, yes. And when Glenda tells the wizards, you know, the shove makes up the chance

and the pies are awful. But when you're in the shove and it's mucky weather and the water's coming through your coat and your shoes are leaking and you bite into your pie and you know someone else is biting into their pie and the grease slides down your sleeve. I don't have any words for it. You can't buy it, you can't write it down or organise it or make it shiny or make it tame. And they all experience that this is when you get the Thalmuc residence and they all

experience these memories that they don't have. Yes, yes, the day job without the VU. Yes, which is a really nice way to describe it. Yeah, but even the description of the memories is lovely as well. And I feel like works, like the way Pratchett does it is evocative enough that, you know, I never went to a football game with my dad but I feel like maybe I did now. Yeah, I can I can feel biting into a pie as I was biting into their pie. I've been cold but also warm and happy and in a crowd and knowing that everyone else

is in my shoes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Big shoes. Yeah, I was going to say. It's in the same boat. Yeah, big boat. Because it was raining quite a lot. There were two of, two of every animal. It's in the same boat. Yeah, big boat. Because it was raining quite a lot.

There were two of, two of every animal. They're fucking doved. I'm not actually on any kind of cold medicine. This is just where I was happening to my brain. Oh, maybe you should be. We don't get the good stuff at England, actually. It's not like in America where you can take some cold medicine and colour forget about the world. Yeah.

You had a lens that would help. Yeah, but it doesn't do anything fun to your brain. This is your brain not on drugs. I see that's why and you've got that. Yeah, that is why. Not drinking lens if out of a goblet. Maybe. Well, you've done it with Coke before.

Look, sometimes a goblet is what I have to hand. Jesus, I had things I was going to say. I'm sorry. No, no, I'm not. I'm not very. I'm annoying at me, aren't you? You're not sorry, it's fine. Yeah, so there was this kind of start this kick about with the new old rules from the

urn and Ponda gets a page and a half long monologue about all the ways it doesn't work. Which is, again, I love it when any character gets a monologue. Love a page and a half monologue. And it's beautiful. But yeah, the fact that in some cases you and the opposing custodian leaned companiably against the goal, sharing a cigarette and watching the play-up field showed a decent spirit and might possibly be a good starting point for some more advanced tactics. But I don't think it should be encouraged. Yeah. So yeah, you get this middle ground football before Knott starts having ideas

and says like on the librarian saving the ball, the game should be beautiful like a well executed war. It expands. Mr. Librarian, I love the equals in Mr. Librarian. Mr. Librarian's leap was both beautiful and good, sir, and therefore must be true. And therefore the rule which should prevent him from doing it again would be proved to be neither beautiful nor true and would indeed be a false law. Yes, yeah, we're getting a bit axiomatic. Axiomatic, yes. Axiomatic. And Uthness Cave.

I think the Athenean philosophers, yeah, Plato's Cave. Thank you. How many years ago was it you were explaining that to me? an Uthness cave. I think the Athenian philosophers, yeah, Plato's cave. How many years ago was it? You're saying that to me? I've never really correctly explained Plato's cave. You certainly associated in my mind with the word Axiom. Excellent. I'm not sure I meant to. Oh, no. That was back in the days when we were sitting around my table.

Oh, no, that was when I was trying to explain Zeno's paradox. Oh, sorry. Pyramids. Yeah, no. Then why then? Anyway, well, we're wildly spinning. What's an allegory? Three mezzafors in a trench coat. Fuck the T-Rex.

It's a whole crowd in a shoe. It's a boat, right? It's a crab bucket holding two other crab buckets. And it's pulling the buckets into the bucket. And then inside another bucket, there's another bucket. The pickle dung is still crispy. And then I'll send that box to myself and then I'll step on it. Jesus Christ.

Okay, the point I was building to is there. Oh, I'm sorry building to is gone. No, both versions of the football have the potential to be beautiful in different ways. The shove has this potential for beauty in the feeling of the crowd. The new football has the potential for a feeling in the beauty and the rules. And again, that perhaps it does not come down on the moral side of knobsbs can't have this nor on the moral side of nobs should take this. But it starts building into finding the beauty inherent in both and pulling it all together. And I think it's some release some really beautiful writing. Loretta Yeah. And adds a third kind of beauty,

doesn't it? When you get the passion of the game and the rules together, you get, you know, the kind of beauty you get with ballet as knobs is recognising. Yes, absolutely. The discipline, yeah. Yeah, ballet and spin. It's called the beautiful game, of course. And team work. Francine, if you've got an obscure reference for me or for me.

Yes, luckily I had many backups today. This is largely my fault. I was frustrated because I decided right at the last minute and Joanna also knows all the fun facts. These two are maybe not that obscure, but I didn't know them. I've googled a lot of words during this section and last section, this is a fun word heavy book, but I picked two academic ones that I didn't know the meaning of. Emeritus, emeritus. Emeritus. Emeritus, wow, I was gonna say that every which way, apart from that way.

And emeritus role is what Rincewind has. And that's an honorary title if somebody's retired from usually a slightly more distinguished role than Rincewind has, but I suppose well- Professor of... Professor of Hero. Yeah, Professor of Cruel and Unusual Geography. Exactly. It's like an honorary thing. You're allowed to keep working there and getting a salary because it would be rude to send you away, or in this case, because you are a lucksink. Fun fact, I know the word emeritus and how to say it because when the Pope Benedict XVI retired,

that was the first time ever a Pope would retire and they had to decide what his title would be. And he was the Pope Emeritus. Oh, fun. Oh, okay. Or the Papal Emeritus. Cool. I like that.

Yeah. Pope Emeritus. Papal Emeritus. Yes. Rusticate. Rusticate? Oh, hold on. Rusticate. Oh, hold on. I better find the actual context for it. There we go. I will rusticate or otherwise expel any man who skives off without a note from his mother.

Rusticate is is suspending a student from university as a punishment used particularly at Oxfordbridge, Oxford and Cambridge, and it's usually for like a certain amount of time for like a year or whatever. It also means go and live in the countryside, say like rustic rustic. Yeah. So it's like fuck off away from civilization and go live in a cottage. You fail academic. Get thee to an honoree.

Yeah. Get thee to an Annery. Get thee to Lanke. So yes, lots of fun academia in here. Of course, Pratchett was probably doctor, doctor, doctor, doctor, doctor by this point. He definitely had a few doctors. I just I'd speak under a shuffled. I just looked up. God, I love, I'm sorry I brought up the shuffled. I. I just really love Shetland. I didn't even write that down. That wasn't your fault. I just thought that was bad luck. Also, I wanted to mention it partly because Glenda heard the clink of her silver Shetland

reputed to a held the one key that could open any lock in the university and the creaking of her fearsome corsetry. I was reading kind of past at that point and I first read it as the only key that could open her fearsome corsetry. And I was reading kind of past at that point, and I first read it as the only key that could open her fearsome corsetry. Only she has the keys to the corset. I just quickly looked up because I thought one of your academic things you were going to look up was Camelengo, because that's one of Ponders titles. That was my fourth one. That sounded familiar, but I can't remember what it was from and it's another Holy, it's an office of the papal household that administers the

property and revenues of the Holy See. So I guess that's like a stepping in if everything goes wrong one again, is it? Yeah, yeah. It is handling the money and properties and such of the Vaskan city and the Pope. Ah, so you're trustworthy enough to take over in the short term. Although if you are at the university, unseen university, it's the long term on account of all the, you know. Yes. But with Popes, that doesn't tend to happen because they just, they all go and sequester and do the weird smoke voting.

Yeah. How do we know that smoke voting isn't caused by a secret source or a battle inside the Pope House? We don't, the Pope House. I didn't want to break the flow of my sentence too much there by admitting ignorance. Right, I'm gonna stop us. Before I further alienate our huge Catholic listenership. Sure. Nothing against any Catholic listeners we may have. I've got loads against them.

I'm gonna, no, Catholics are fine. Joanna has religious trauma. Thank you. I do have quite a lot of religious trauma I've written a lot of poetry about it. It lot of poetry about it. That's good poetry. It says, not upbeat. No, it's not. Anyway, I'm going to get us out of this episode before I say anything else.

Get us out of the crab bucket. The crab's yanking me down and there's another bucket in here. Oh my God, it's crab bucket exception. Thank you very much for listening to this episode of The True Shall Make You Fret. Well done. Yeah, well done, ye. We'll be back next week with the final part of Unseen Academicals, which starts after this one ends and goes to the end of the book, with that we go all the way to the end on

this one. Until next week. It starts with, let me see Mr. Not Now, doesn't it? No, that's where this ended. Take me to Mr. Not Right Now. Yeah, so that's where this one starts. Well, it starts after that. Okay, so.

Jesus. I'm just reminding people they don't have to go all the way back to the beginning. No, no, no, you're perfectly right. I just couldn't remember the actual beginning sentences of the next section and I'm not going to look for it. Right, sorry. Until next week, dear listeners, when I'll hopefully be able to complete a sentence, you can join our Discord link down below. You can follow us on Instagram at the truexamikifrat on Twitter and BlueSky

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