The Truth Shall Make Ye Fret - 144: I Shall Wear Midnight Pt.3 (Self-Omenation)

Episode Date: May 19, 2024

The Truth Shall Make Ye Fret is a podcast in which your hosts, Joanna Hagan and Francine Carrel, read and recap every book from Sir Terry Pratchett’s Discworld series in chronological order. This week, Part 3 of our recap of “I Shall Wear Midnight”. Weddings! Funerals! Folklore! Find us on the internet:Twitter: @MakeYeFretPodInstagram: @TheTruthShallMakeYeFretFacebook: @TheTruthShallMakeYeFretEmail: [e-mail]: www.patreon.com/thetruthshallmakeyefretDiscord: https://discord.gg/29wMyuDHGP Want to follow your hosts and their internet doings? Follow Joanna on twitter @joannahagan and follow Francine @francibambi Things we blathered on about:Television Without Pity's demise forces a generation to face the snark reality - The GuardianThe Leaping Hare by George Ewart Evans - Goodreads the life and legend of michael scot - The Project Gutenberg Jugging - Wikipedia    Watermarks & Foolscaps: Exploring the History of Paper Production - Alembic Rare Books END BIT CREDIT: Sir Terry Pratchett in conversation with Dr Jacqueline Simpson in 2010 - The Folklore Society [Taken from part 1, near the end, but listen to the whole thing – there’s more of the song as well as a fantastic conversation – and perhaps even invest in a membership. It's quite possibly the best non-essential on which I spend money.]Music: Chris Collins, indiemusicbox.com

I've been reading a lot of folklore, I haven't spoken to another human being all day. This bodes well for us speaking in complete sentences. The new episode of Doctor Who is really good. Oh yeah? Oh good. This was the one that Steven Moffat wrote and he writes good episodes and it was Steven Moffat ranting about war and capitalism for 45 minutes. Gosh, splendid Doctor Who, go woke, eh? Politics in my Doctor Who.

Social commentary in my media. Opinions. Tut tut. You can't even say that anymore because of woke. That's what I hear by somebody who immediately went to prison. Have you seen the ridiculous, famously nonsensical Britain's strictest head teacher who's currently saying, yep, there're even children identifying as pasta now. Yes. And it's driving me mad, not just because obviously she's ridiculous and always is, but because every time Twitter's algorithm, I could just stop using the hell site, but I won't. Every time I interact slightly with one of these things, it fucking floods my timeline with it for weeks. And something like that is so outrageous, you can't help but go, what And click on it. I don't care. And then after a while, I'm like, not interested.

I don't want to hear fucking anything about mental British anti trans nonsense at the moment. I just I'm fucking done with it. I'll keep up to date with the politics side of it. I don't want to hear this random shit from nobody's. I it is too exhausting to try and block all the shit amounts on the hell site. So I have just cut way back on using the hell site. I basically go on shitpost and run away again. And Reddit is my main scrolling. Oh, see, I stopped using Reddit almost because the fuck, the loss of like the third party apps is just I can't use the native Reddit app. That is really bad. Again,

the algorithm but different problem this time is it's got the same problem that Instagram's got. And then it only shows you three things again and again and again. I subbed something like 40 or 50 subreddits I only see three or four on my front page. Like, Yeah, no, that I do have that problem. It's not even like the most popular ones. I'm talking Stardew Valley in the Magnus archives or something at the moment. Yeah, tons of TV subreddits because I'll go on and it's kind of handy for some of the research stuff and also just see how people talk about shows now compared to when they were on all of that shit. So they come up over and over again. Mostly it's the knitting

subreddit. I'm not going to lie, which I can also get lost in for hours. Knitting subreddit sounds fine. I've always liked the craft hobby ones. They've always been good. Hobby ones, yeah. But yeah, I'm starting to think maybe I just shouldn't go on the internet. Maybe. Let's talk about something slightly happier than the fact that the internet's a hell site and England's full of mad transphobes. Oh, yeah, sure. What are you going to make?

Oh, I didn't get further than that. Oh, well, should we do a podcast? Well, then go off on a completely new tandem. That's my line. Do you want to make a podcast? Let's make a podcast. Hello and welcome to The True Shall Make You Fret, a podcast in which we are reading and recapping every book from Terry Pranchett's Discworld series, one this time in chronological order. I'm Joanna Hagan.

And I'm Francine Carroll. And it's part three of our discussion of I Shall Wear Midnight. Thrilling conclusion time. And it is. Thrilling. Note on spoilers before we crack on, we are a Spoiler Lite podcast. Obviously heavy spoilers for the book I Shall Wear Midnight, but we will avoid spoiling any major future events in the Discworld series. And as always, we're saving any and all discussion of the final

Discworld novel, The Shepherd's Crown, until we get there so you, dear listener, can come on the journey with us. Leaping through the flames to sit dazed amongst the cinders. Perfect. We should say as a podcast that we don't officially endorse jumping over fire. Although if you do try it, let me know. Yeah, kind of want to know what happens. Answers on a singed postcard. Quick bit of follow up, the sort of feather-like flames that you were thinking of last week are referenced in Carpe Jugulum.

Yeah. Thank you, Peter on Patreon and awesome on Discord. Ellie on Discord mentioned a theory that I've seen in a couple of places elsewhere as well, that Esk and Simon are Rincewind's parents. Yeah, I did see that. I like it. I like it as headcannon. You know what I mean, I'm always up for a completely ridiculous headcannon. Drumknot is secretly his like, yes. But yeah, I can't see any other way. His mother would have run away before he was born.

Yeah, it does kind of make sense. Right, Francine, would you like to tell us what happened previously on I Shall Wear Midnight? Certainly. Previously on I Shall Wear Midnight. Tiff's pursued by the curse of an evil man, re-anthropomorphised by a centuries-old hatred of witches and her little snog with the wintersmith. The cunning man with holes where his eyes should be turns ant more pork against her. And what he lacks in sight he makes up for in smell, something that only Tiffany's fellow witches can perceive. Luckily, we do meet a couple of them, Mrs. Proust and the fabled Escarina Smith, both of whom arm our hero with wisdom and send her back to the Chalk.

This turns out to be a switch from the greasy Ankh-Morporkian frying pan to the ancestral fire as she immediately comes across an almost-all occasion between feagal and human, realizes the extent of the bad feeling in the castle and witnesses a drunk cook taking one last trip to the wine cellar. RIP. RIP. F5. F5 in the chat.

Right, in this section, which begins in Chapter 10 and goes all the way through to the end. Sorry, it's a long one. Including epilogue. Sorry, it's a long one. Including epilogue. In chapter 10, the Baron asks Tiffany to leave the Chalk and almost makes accusations. Tiffany asks for a hearing and she's invited to stay in the castle until further notice. She puts herself in the dungeon and meets with her beetle-eating lawyer, and Letitia arrives to drop some soggy spill words before Roland and the Duchess come to rescue her from the wicked witch. A shambles hints at Letitia's magical prowess and as night falls Tiffany makes a visit. Letitia admits to some nefarious activity and she takes to

the air with Tiffany to resolve the ostrich. In chapter 11, Tiffany smells the cunning man in Letitia's gleaming library and she presses his book to temporarily trap him. Tiffany encourages Letitia to explain everything to her fiancé. In chapter 12, Preston delivers breakfast and Tiffany visits the old baron before she sees the new one. She promises to keep an eye on the upcoming proceedings and has a private discussion with Letitia. The cunning man begins to whisper and Tiffany runs and reads. She almost burns the man in black as he comes towards her in tapestry form, but Esque prevents things just in time and warns Tiffany that she'll have to fight and the other witches will be ready to step in. Back in the present, Preston tells Tiffany to rest. Meanwhile, Mrs. Proust visits the

Tanti. There's been an escape from D-Wing. Proust needs to go to the country and Macintosh is already running. In chapter 13, it's funeral day and the witches arrived. The baron's been buried beautifully and the senior witches insist that they are not here to help. Nanny gets the room singing as Proust arrives on the roof to warm Tiffany about the cunning man's new body, then the Duchess has a sudden attack of history. In chapter 14, Tiffany visits the crypts and as midnight strikes Preston insists on the two going together to find a tied up Rowland. At the pigsty, as Preston gets a task, Rowland's feeling, the cunning man is coming, and Letitia arrives. Tiffany tells the almost-needy words to run. The field burns, the hare runs, a leap over the fire cements the union, and the cunning man burns. Tiffany

is the witch without mercy. In chapter 15, a politer wedding takes place. Preston and Tiffany perform a burial. Roland returns the money given to Tiffany by the old baron, and Tiffany returns the money to Roland but makes a few requests. A dowry for Amber, a local school and land rights for the Fiegls. In the travelling now, an older Tiffany tells her younger self to listen. Zini witches cement approval and Tiffany flies at midnight. In the morning she goes to work. And at the next scouring fair, Tiffany receives a black dress and a golden hair. Very good. Very good. So helicopter and loincloth watch. For helicopter, Tiffany flying up the chimney

clinging to her broomstick bristles. I want to go for a broomstick theme on this book. And for loincloth, trusers that was suddenly no longer their friends, if you know what I can. I know what you can. friends, if you know what I can. I know what you can. Or you can what I mean. I know what you mean. I know what you can, I can what you mean. I just can.

For a bonus as well, I think covers both Fiegel's flapping their kilts to get the fire going. Hmm, yeah, double helicopter, loincloth combo. Yeah. Yeah, perfect. Horrifying and perfect. Just because I couldn't quite chew hornet in anywhere else, there's a footnote about witches always make certain their hands are scrupulously clean. The rest of the witch had to wait for some time in the busy schedule, possibly a thunderstorm, which obviously calls back to my favorite thing. I just watch bits as and when they become available. Quotes then, favourite quotes. Do you want to go first Francine?

Sure. Everybody was good at something. The only wicked thing was not finding out in time. I like that. I like that. Pretty self-explanatory. How about yours? Slightly longer. Unsurprising. This is Tiffany on the bad slash good luck of having a wedding so close to a funeral. I believe in not having to believe in luck. But Your Grace, I can tell you in truth that at such times the universe gets a little closer to us. There's strange times, times of beginnings

and endings, dangerous and powerful. And we feel it even if we don't know what it is. These times are not necessarily good and not necessarily bad. In fact, what they are depends on what we are. Edgdine's, Liminal, all our favourite themes. And what we are, which I think ties in nicely to yours. Yeah, that's very good. Oh, themes, eh? Themes.

Love a theme, love a motif. That Pratchett, you know what? What a fella. Pretty good writer. Pretty good with a pen. That's what they said. Keyboard. Yes. Dictation. Yes, all of it. Poor Rob. Yeah. Do you know, I've read enough autobiography, biography, everything about Pratchett that I should know this. Did he ever have a typewriter or was it word processor from the go?

I think he might have had a typewriter around, but I think the moment technology, there was technology to play with. As and when it became available. Yes, I use this technology as and when it becomes available. All right, characters then. Should we start with Tiffany? Use assistant as and when it becomes available. Yeah. Let's stop digging trenches. Tiffany? Yes.

We should talk about Tiffany. Yet again, taking on a an eldritch being far beyond anybody's can and calling on the power of the hills to do so. Good lad. Good lad. Good lad, Tiffany. Good lad, Tiffany. Good lad, Tiffany. I'll tell you what, Tiffany O'Kingberg's always got a great boss fight. Oh yeah, gotta love a boss fight. Love a boss fight. You got the Queen, the Hiver, the Wintersmith. This one had not only a great boss fight, but a great celebratory wrapping up bit. What's that called in media? Denumont? Yeah. Sure. I think.

Okay. Yeah. Whatever. Yeah. Like the parade in Star Wars or whatever. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. Everyone's like, Yay, the Wookie. I've seen it. No, you pretty much just said that. I think that is my example. One of your least favourite things. Or everybody jumping in slow mo onto Frodo's bed. Yes, yes that. And everyone comes in, he looks delighted until Legolas comes in, he's like who the

fuck are you? We've never spoken. My favourite fun fact about the Lord of the Rings films, they never directly interact apart from and my bow. Is there a Bechdel test for... Whether or not Frodo interacts with Legolas. It's a very specific Bechdel test. Yeah, probably doesn't need its own test really. Anyway, this is not a podcast about the Lord of the Rings films. This is a podcast about the book I shall wear midnight. I didn't know that. I did know that. I've got notes. Cool. Yeah, anyway, Tiffany. Yay. Anna-Daisy Tiffany, Anna-Daisy. I like, she puts herself in the dungeon,

and she does this calm explanation to Brian, this, of course, I'm logged in here. So I can't go and make medicines. I can't go and help your mum. And she's not threatening about it. She's just this very clean state. And she could be more of a dick about it. It could definitely be more frustration in that, do you know how much I fucking do? Sarah I think she realizes she doesn't need to be. Merle Yeah. Sarah You get some point across pretty easily. And it's also a good way to let him know she'll be missing in the night if that's something he notices. Yeah, and nice like protective custody thing as well, little mirror back to the ink wall, pork, Tanti, not the Tanti, whichever bitch he was in.

The police cells. Yeah, the police cells, that's right. Yeah, locked in your own protection type thing. And this like, I want you to be fully aware I was here if something else fucked up happens, even though I might not actually be here, let's be fair. Something something, H do you score this? The motif of pride and Tiffany's pride that runs through the book, I thought was great. When she's talking to Esk in The Travelling Now and there's this, what is it Esk says to her, you weren't born with a talent for witchcraft. It didn't come easily, so you had to work at it. You forced the world to give it to you no

matter the price. And I thought I is great in because Tiffany is very prideful, partly because she's young and partly because she's that sort of character. But I thought there's an interesting comparison to Granny Weatherwax there because Granny decided she wanted to be a witch and she had to she camped outside an older witch's place and demanded to be taught. Yeah. Yeah. And you do get to see like Tiffany Tiffany throughout not being able to do her shambles right away and all kinds of stuff like that. It's not like Escarina who immediately surpassed granny's expectations.

Or Letitia. Or Letitia who just fucks about with a stick and does the old proper fantasy book thing. Which called Glow thing. Yeah. Which witchcraft has come to awkwardly well. Yes. Yeah. Oh no, I'm blonde. I can't do magic. Out of us, Francie, and you are the princess and I am the witch. I dyed my hair blonde though. Oh yeah, good point. I'm secretly good at magic. That's how that works, I think.

Yeah, probably. Or you've like chosen the princess life. Yeah, you know me fucking. Yeah. You are the one I think of when I think ball gowns and tiaras. Out of the two of us. I've never worn a bustle. I've worn many a bustle. I've never had a trousseau. I'm gonna say something useful. A pride. Pride, yes.

Yeah, as a weapon. Yeah, that's what granny says to her just before she sort of goes to face the cunning man. If you let pride get the better of you, you've already lost. But if you grab pride by the scruff of the neck and ride it like a stallion, you might have already won. Yes. And you kind of get that. You've got to bear that in mind as you see the whole slightly odd process of her refusing help from everybody. You really get the underlining of the fact that witches, although they're a big part of the community and the steadying revolves around her, as Granny Weatherback says, have to be alone, have to stand alone in a part and work solo to an extent. That's just how witchcraft works.

That's just how witchcraft works. And if Tiffany had asked for help, the way Es puts it is, oh, well, they'd be very kind about it. And that would be the worst possible thing. But it gets to the point, Tiffany hasn't asked for help. And so they do start, like Granny almost says, you know, we might actually have to insist on helping you. And Tiffany still has the pride and does it by herself. Yeah. So at that point, you have to wonder if granny and nanny are just stroking the pride of it. Yeah. Knowingly, yeah.

I think they are. They know. They know. Well, nanny knows people and granny knows Tiffany because Tiffany is baby granny. Yeah. Are we including future Tiffany in the Tiffany? I think we should include future Tiffany in the Tiffany. One last thing on the pride though, the payoff for it, when she does beat the coming man and she's got that intense power

of lack of mercy. That all comes from the pride that she's built up in herself so that she can stand over him with the flint dripping from her fingers. Yeah. And she does burn her hand. She burns her hand. Yes. Anyway, yeah, older Tiffany. Older Tiffany. Very cool. I think you're kind of led to believe it's Escarina in these shadowy witch silhouettes throughout the book. Yeah, Tiffany's sort of the... Escarina's like a sort of red herring for those moments and then older Tiffany steps forward. She's omening herself. Self-omination. Yep, that's what I'm calling it. And yeah, it's

very cool. And I like that she likes the smile on herself. Like she's like, yeah, I've grown up pretty well. I like that. Yep. And she's looking at the necklace. People wore jewelry to show you something. Yes. Yes. A, I've got to be the hair. B, watch out for that. Watch out for that there. You're still going to be wearing that for 50 years. That's important knowledge. And I like the older Tiffany sort of congratulating younger Tiffany. Good at endings. Classic endings to a romantic story or a wedding or a legacy and you've been the engineer for one of each. Well done.

Yes. Oh, that's wonderful. the engineer for one of each. Well done. It's nice to think of older Tiffany still very tied to the world of stories because everything about younger Tiffany has come about because of stories. I also like the two instances of Tiffany wearing midnight and the name of the thing in the thing does come up in the section. The first one as she's clinging on, you know, with the safety strap properly attached to the broom and looking down at the steadying and off at the sky, it's very much like sculling through the water. It's a lovely image being able to do that. Yeah. And the second of course being when she gets her dress.

The beautiful dress is black as a cat full of sixpences. Yep. Lovely saying. And she thought I shall wear midnight and I shall be good at it. Yes, and she's not even old. And she's not even old. But I think that the wearing midnight or the not wearing the witch black was partly, I don't want to be wearing black all the time. But I think there was a little hint as well of maybe I'm not quite ready to and putting on the dress is really accepting. No, totally ready to.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, to the point where she gets the dress on a day where she's not wearing the hat. So I guess she is really secure in her witchness. Which she doesn't need to. Witchosity. Witchosity. Any other Tiffany thoughts? Uh, nothing that I'm sure we won't fit in later. True. So Roland. Bit less of a twat still. Bit less of a twat.

Still got that broomstick. He has definitely still talking like he's at a public meeting. I like his standing up to the Duchess moments though. He gets a couple of really good ones. When Tiffany and the Duchess are arguing when she's holding in front of Roland in chapter 10 and she very sarcastically, you know, oh, will you hit me with a stick, Your Grace? Will you grasp the nettle firmly? And Roland's like, I have no idea what this is. Was it so nonplasty was minused? Yes, that was a great line. When the Duchess says spinning is for servants and she wants all the spinning wheels taken away including his mother's lovely inlaid with mother of

pearl spinning wheel. And no said Roland, it wasn't loud but it had a quietness that was somehow louder than a shout and undertones and overtones that would have stopped a herd of elephants in their tracks. Have you gotten a relevant elephant while I'm there? No, I haven't. Rude. I didn't pick up on the elephant. Shocking. I didn't put that in to trick you. I literally just realised elephants as I was

saying it. I'll see if I can think of one during the break. And then he's thinking about the Duchess meeting the King and Queen, sort of, oh, well, I've Queen beat everybody and the Duchess would have to curtsy until her knees clicked. And the spill words are something like, and that would be a terrible shame. Oh, terrible shame. Terrible shame. But he also gets his, you know, oh, I'm a humid again moments. He gets, you know, he

goes on his stag do. Yeah. He gets, you know, he goes on his stag do. He's clearly caring very much about Letitia. He gets baked into a little clay suit. That's his tradition. It happens to the best of us. There's some nice sort of insight into how this no longer having an understanding with Tiffany happened as well. They'd gone wrong believing that because two things were different, they must be alike. There were things that they wish they hadn't been said and it wasn't over

because it hadn't begun. He explains things to her as well in a conversation they probably needed to have for a long time. He says, it's as if you have a handkerchief for the whole world. Then he brings up the way she thinks about words and said words like conundrum. And she said, oh, you need a special kind of head to think like that and a special kind of clever and I haven't got that head. What's the sound of guidance? And then he calls Letitia uncomplicated and there's definitely a hint of, oh yeah, yeah, definitely. You're fine there.

You'll have a lovely time finding out about that. So yeah, speaking of Letitia. Yeah, definitely. You'll find that you'll have a lovely time finding out about. So you're speaking of Letitia. Yay. We get some character development. I forgot how much I like Letitia in the back there of the book, considering how pitchy we were being about her last week. Yeah, I mean, you really do get a proper flip around on it, don't you? As soon as you get to see her in her own context. Yes.

Yeah. And not crying. Oh, that first crying scene though, it very much reminded me of like the Alice in Wonderland Disney cartoon. She starts crying and floods the whole scene. And it was the line, you know, this is the drawback of being a witch because it was this person Tiffany hated, had led her to wonder about that business of sticking pins into a wax figure. She didn't of course because it would be evil and she couldn't find any pins. Now the wretched creature was in some kind of agony, so distraught that modesty and dignity were all being washed away in a rolling flood of gummy tears. How could they not wash away hatred as well?

Yeah. And truth there never was really hatred, more of a kind of miffed feeling. I love miffed. I should use miffed more. Yeah, that's one that must have an interesting etymology. Let's not start wondering about etymology, Francie. No, no, no. Not in this economy. But yes, I start coming around to Letitia as Tiffany does, especially when she talks about being frustrated. Oh, I'm only allowed to paint pictures. I'm only allowed to do watercolours, not even charcoal sketches.

I know. I bet she's not even allowed the good pigments. Nice and dramatic effects with a decent dark green or something. Yeah. There's some bonding over this. We were wondering was Letitia the watercolour painter that Roland was speaking to in Wintersmith? No, that was Lord Diver's daughter, Iodyne. Yes, that's right. Yes. A lovely name for a girl. An even worse name.

And they bond over this book of fairy tales and how freaked out they both were by the goblin. But they both assigned their roles based on it. Yeah. Yeah, people should stop giving that book out. Fuck. And yeah, then just Tiffany giving that book out. Fuck. And yeah, then just Tiffany getting her expectations averted as well, you know, the way

litish is so casual about the ghosts. So Tiffany says like, Oh, yeah, there's some ghostly woman wandering towards us with a pumpkin. And she's like, Oh, yeah, that's Mavis. But it's very, it's very, almost very Tiffany, isn't it? Tiffany was wondering if she'd have thought of it. I think she probably would. Yeah, it's that same witch based practicality. Child crying, sure. Child is more skeleton than usual. But give it a teddy bear. Yeah, it's absolutely something a witch would do. Oh, what a sad ghost to have around.

Yeah, I don't want to think about that too much. I'm glad he has a teddy bear. But that does kind of link in with the Duchess, doesn't it? I mean, this whole meander around the manor, you find the Duchess as extra dimension. Yeah, the looking after the servants. Most of the servants working at the hall look after the older servants. No one is sent off to go begging. They all get little cottages to live in.

Yeah. The night watchman takes a week to do his rounds, that kind of thing. And for the first time you get the idea that the Duchess has a moral centre, even if it is off somewhat from our favourite characters. Yeah. And Letitia sort of calls Tiffany out on like, you think my mother is an overbearing nightmare and she is, let's be fair, but she also really cares about loyalty, she rewards it. Yeah. And what you know, one of the ongoing themes in this book, that loyalty being a

circular thing. The Baron having fealty because he doesn't force it. Yeah, the sort of agreement of, yeah, we will let you rule us provided you ask us to do exactly what we would like to do anyway. Yeah. It's a very interesting topic when you look at, I'm sure lots of countries history, but British history and enclosures and all this stuff that we definitely don't have time to go into. But yeah, the circular aspect of loyalty that was very much broken. Yes. But yeah, the Duchess, before we get into how depressing the world is, with her musical backstory and Mrs. Proust's absolute delight when she realises, Deirdre Parsley,

long time no sequins, can you still high kick a man's top hat off his head? Write it down because Deirdre Parsley. Deirdre Parsley. What a name. Good to see ya. And yeah, I like the humble origins. There's also a really good moment when everyone's dressed for the funeral and the Duchess was in this proper black, blacker than any black dress and is thinking about it, you know, because witches wear black but they don't really wear black, it's grey and patchy and

shabby and oh you couldn't imagine a Duchess delivering. Actually, you could imagine the Duchess delivering in a baby like that. And I think that's a big realization about the character. It's like, yeah, she's a bitch and overbearing, but she would get the thing done if it needed to happen. Yeah, she's not Mrs. Ittwick. Yeah. Yeah, she's not all talk. Yeah, she definitely put her money where her mouth is, although thankfully, no babies needed delivering during the funeral. No, I mean, that would have really made a hell of a hat-trick. Birth, death and a wedding. Hatch-match and a dispatch. So Esk, who pops in to rearrange the contents of Tiffany's head and warn her about the

other witches. Yeah, she must have come across Lutse in her time. Absolutely. With the little pauses in reality there, just for a minute. Hi! Sorry to interrupt, but don't. Don't do that. Also, don't ask me to explain the traveling now too much because that might break the universe. Don't worry about that. What I need you to do right now is not set fire to the castle. All right? Cool. See you later. I kind of like to think that we have beers in Ankh-Morpork, which is where all the werewolves and eagles and things hang out. I quite like to think that there is some kind of separate

dimensional pub where all of these slightly transcended humanity people hang out. So like Ersk and Lidzay and Susan pops in. I know Susan goes to beers as well, but maybe she pops in there too. Yes, every now and then, but then the vibe changes. Yeah. Prince Wind just sprints through it like once a week and everyone sort of lets it happen. On a rowdy night, the luggage will be in there and you kind of feed it olives and throw. Rangutan likes to, the librarian likes to swing in every now and then. I mean, he likes the mended drum, but you know,

Yeah, there's definitely an L space side door. Yeah. Yeah. The hog father popping in when it's his year off. Yeah. Listeners, suggestions for this bar's name. Very welcome. Yes.

Please think of that for us. Answers on a seven dimensional postcard. Yeah. Speaking of seven dimensions, witches, comma, miscellaneous. Yeah, I'm not going to spend ages talking about all of the witches, but some lovely visits from them. Obviously, we have Proust traveling with happenstance and long, tall, short, fat Sally. Master to ceilings. That character has been referenced before. I don't remember which book but in a witch book. Terrible pun. Granny Weatherwax with you draped over her shoulders

like a scarf. I like the little just the catch up with the Kitten. Yeah. Kitten is now incredibly fucking haughty. We don't actually really speak to Margaret or Verence, but they're there and I'm happy. I'm just sort of turning up to be a bit royal at things. Do you think Margaret and Letitia will be friends? Yes, absolutely. I feel like Margaret will probably give Letitia a little bit of guidance in a very different way to how Nanny Og gives us some guidance, but she did need that conversation with Nanny Og. Yes, it's lucky Nanny Og was there. I think Tiffany can give the equivalent of a sex ed class.

Nanny Og can do all the work that years of magazines and chatting with your mates should have done. Yeah, I don't think they've got Cosmo Girl on the disc. No, not Mawson Pitty, you don't need that. Cosmos girl. Yeah, so Granny making her very dignified entrance wearing her cat and Nanny coming in behind her. Watch a tiff, how's your belly off the spots? A perfect greeting. I think we can all agree. Yeah, and a sign about Nanny potentially being cleverer than Granny Weatherwax and was

clever enough not to let her know it, which I enjoyed greatly. Yeah, I think at this end of the Discworld practice becoming more explicit about Naniog being the powerful of the pair. Just like, I don't think enough people are getting this. Naniog's really good, by the way, guys. Like, she's great at this. Did you not fucking read the sea and little fishes? Yeah. What do you mean you didn't? The only reason I put pasta rag in here is I wanted to reference his the call back to cafe jugulum, which is it was only a matter of a few years ago, the pastor wrote in his renowned testament from the mountains that the women known as witches

embody in a caring and practical way the very best ideals of brother the prophet. And the women known as bitches do as well. Sorry, yeah, that was an awkward spoonerism because I was looking at the word brother at the time. But yeah, it's a nice reference to his time in the mountains during Carfey Tegulum. Yes. Obviously the witches have left an impression. Yeah, we've got a nice little ancestry line of not-profits, but you know, religious people now don't we?

We've got pastor oak, we've got pastor oats. Yep. Food themed, apart from brother. I'm not sure Constable Wash pot counts as food themed either. No, I was just about to say, oh, and haddock, but no, that's different one. Damn it. Yeah. Or visit the Infidel with explanatory pamphlets. I can't remember what rank he is. Yes, it's always nice to get a sensible priest in the equation. All these traveling pastors have to be very much like, oh, yes, a witch. Oh, yes, a lot of witches. All right. Just a little bit of cussing on the older

sermon. All righty. The idea of religion on the chalk being just traveling priests who helps if they know a bit about sheep and aren't too specific about which god they're praying to. It's fine. Same thing as teachers except Tiffany very clearly does not care that much about a permanent church but would very much like a permanent school. Not the travelling teachers exchanging knowledge for the end of a carrot. For an egg you can learn commas. And then Fiegl's, Rob gets another great angry moment. I like this idea of the Fiegl words that smoke

and spark as he spits them out. Yeah, you get a little bit of that in Hogfather, I think, when there's too much magical energy everywhere and the wizards when they swear, it turns into little goblins or something like that maybe. Oh yeah. Yeah, that's the other physical incarnation of swear words words but I think the Fiegls do it more stylishly. Oh yeah, the Fiegls sparking swear words are great. And then he's trying to sort of explain

to Tiffany, well you're so angry and this threat of the shovels at the mound and his words were all the more menacing because they were level and quiet. Yes, you get a real angry Fiegl. It goes the opposite of the normal happy violence. Yeah. We met Arthur who has rapidly learned to himself be very protective of the mound and I won't read the whole thing but delivers an incredible speech about what he would do if the mound was actually pierced by a shovel. Yeah. Ends it with, so on the whole probably best not be a policeman anymore. On account of all the violence I want to.

Yeah. I should have talked about judges and juries. I hope the current misunderstanding could be resolved without the need for wholesale carnage and bloodletting and screaming and weeping and wailing and people having bits of themselves nailed to trees such as has never been seen before. You know, the stereotypical policeman speech. Yep. But yeah, he doesn't just say, I won't be a policeman anymore. He very specifically takes his badge off and drops it, which I thought was quite a clanging moment. Because we've seen badges removed by the watch before and it's not something done lightly. No, especially yes, no, find this stuck in his hand badge. Oh, makes me wince. So yeah, I'm happy for We Mad Arthur. he's gonna give a new life alone but stick to the

good hygiene. Yep. And speaking of good hygiene, we have Preston, going off to get some letters by the end of this. But at the start of this section, we find out just how cool he is. Yep, casually cuts up chickens and can stitch your dog back together, not grass. Oh yeah, I know he's already a good surgeon, isn't he? He has the knowing of the roots. Twister root. Yeah. I like to think he will share that knowing with Petulia and then all of her chicken patients will also survive. Sharing of knowledge, helpful for growth. I like his insistence, you know, I could be a bad person.

Yeah. Stole a packet of colored pencils off a market store. And how old were you? Six. He looked at her defiantly as if expecting her to scream or point the finger of scorn. So I don't think the cunning man can get in your head Preston. Yeah, so he's the epitome of not a bad bone in his body. Yeah, I do like Nanny refers to him as Tiffany's young man. And Tiffany's like, Oh, yeah, well, Preston is my young man. And Nanny looking very innocently. And he gently calls out Tiffany towards the end. She makes some comment and he says, own up to a cheerful and youthful disposition, but I'm older than you, my girl.

He's 17 going on 18. Yeah. She's 15. Well, I don't know if he's going on whatever. I was just trying to make it match the sound of music. But less bad than all that because obviously Preston does not become a Nazi. Yes, it's good of Preston to not become a Nazi. No, he's going to be a surgeon. He's studying at the Lady Sibyl Free Hospital. He does a year of teaching first. Wouldn't he be a lovely teacher?

Oh, I bet he'd be a really nice teacher. I bet he was great. What a nice way to start off. You'd have to start with a good teacher, wouldn't you, to try and persuade all of these free-range children into a classroom. Yeah, that it's worth having the education. Yeah. I quite like to think that if he's studying the Lady Civil Free Hospital, he's become pals with Dr. Lorne. Oh, definitely he will. Yeah.

I'm enjoying that concept. And of course then at the end, he gives Tiffany the golden hair and she asks what the sound of love is and he says, listen, which is what all Tiffany said. She says listen because she knows what older Tiffany said. Oh, she says that she knows what to say because I was definitely told us. Yes, you're right. Which I thought was a nice touch because there's a lot of well, recently, where Pratchett has added love into the stories, there have been lots of moments of saying the wrong thing

at the right time. So in Nation and in unseen academics as well, there's a lot of and then they said something and the whole moment went a bit odd or was ruined forever in the case of nation or turned into something else rather than ruined forever, let's say. But here, yes, you know exactly what to say. Oh, yeah, fuck yes, Tiffany. That's romantic as well. I know. Oh, brilliant. I liked that bit. And then on the opposite end of the spectrum of humanity, the cunning man.

Oh, what a twat. We get a nice callback where Pratchett doesn't directly point out that he's doing a callback. Cunning man is manifesting and ranting while Tiffany's looking at Letitia's trousseau. Tiffany thought she could actually see the exclamation marks. They shouted for him. They jumped and slashed at his words, which is a nice reference to the multiple exclamation marks, the sound of a sign of an unstable mind without actually saying that again. Yeah, definitely. As usual practice, use of punctuation being very good character point. Yeah, I mean, the cunning man obviously does not get much character development. We've

learned his backstory already, but he's just pure fucking evil. You get a little bit of extra showing of that as he obviously get the payoff of the whole canary thing. Yeah, possessing Macintosh and making him kill the bird. All of the stuff with Macintosh I think is just good horror moments as well. The body running as much as the sinews are screaming and oh, the body has to stop so it allowed it to drink from the murky waters of the pond which turned out to be full of frogs but a body had to eat. And it just left there as a horrible thought. Yeah and then the kind of rictus grin which makes Letitia and Roland actually understand

what they're running from and get a bit of a fucking jog on. This idea of the canary being the crime beyond mercy. Yeah. And then at the end of the day, beating him is not through some clever trick, it's through confidence, through pride, through a little bit of mastery of fire. Sure. It does help that Tiffany's good at fire. But being on your home turf and knowing that you are going to beat him. Interesting to note that Granny also had to say something at one point. Yeah which isn't surprising but it's nice that it's just a part of Granny's backstory. Yeah.

What was Granny's advice about it? Don't lose. Yeah. Cool. Cheers. Thanks Granny. And Tiffany, just paying off the whole book with things like you are the first blast of the rough music, bringing it sort of full circle to what happened at the beginning of the book and you look over the shoulder at the man as he picks up the first stone. Yeah.

So yeah, nice to have him burned to a crisp. Yeah, although notable that he is not gone forever. No. He's not hivered. He isn't defeated. He is beaten back for another few hundred years, but maybe for longer than usual. Yeah. Pretty bad beating, but the idea that the possibility of this hysteria resurfacing is always going to be there.

Yeah, but I like to think with Tiffany picking up the knowledge of the travelling now that she might be able to advise someone else in future much as much as Esk has helped her. There was two of them out, thinking about time travel, not doing it. Amber and William. I just wanted to end on a note that wasn't the cunning man. I love their little ending. Yeah, very cute, very nice. They get married very young, of course, but I suppose they've done all the grown up things. She gets a dowry and he gets his apprenticeship and steady land sharp as needles and the sort of revelation that Amber's training under the Kelda. Yes, yes, very interesting. So another little magic practitioner of a completely different flavor. And I'm imagining we'll also train under Tiffany at some point, because there's

a little bit of talk about Tiffany being a waste, her not taking a girl on. Now she's very much like the center of this studying and has it under control. So I should think that Amber will work with her at some point, but not become a traditional witch. No, but she'll be around and she'll be doing something important. Actually, it's a nice recurring practice theme that when the main character gets a physical reward of some kind, they spread it around. So yes, like finds his reward is like, oh, yeah, dartboard. Yeah, dartboard. Great. We could do some more coal for the dragon.

New Castle. Like, slightly more demanding, actually. But as it's you, Roland, I'm not scared of you like sometimes as a veterinary. What we're going to have is... But it's also very much framed as no, I'm not taking those $5,000. But here is what you're gonna fucking spend them on. much framed as, no, I'm not taking those $5,000, but here is what you're going to fucking spend them on. Yeah. And very much so. And you know, it's for his own good as well because she is cementing, re-cementing the relationship between the Baron and his people. The dowry is always

going to go to the young girls who need it and the children are going to be taught and there's now a reason for people to put up with the new Baron who isn't as as charismatic as the old baron, might eventually learn to be a bit better than he is now but at the end of the day, he's a bit starchy. He does have a case of the broomsticks. Gabbard Yes. A tragic case of the broomsticks. And of course cementing the ties with the Fiegls as well, giving them their land rights properly. Yeah, you want to have the Fiegls onside. Yeah, I mean, I would much rather be a pal of the Fiegls than not a pal of the Fiegls. Although I wear skinny jeans, so I think they'd struggle to get up my trousers. Good. I wear legged ones, but I would simply not piss the Fiegls off.

Well, yes, also that, obviously. I will leave them some special sheep liniment and back away slowly. I didn't really mark any locations. We do go to the traveling now, of course, and that's very exciting, but I'm scared if we talk about it will unravel the universe. Yeah, no, best not, I think. We've got the castle. We see a bit more of the castle. I like that the dungeon gets a rating. You get a Yelp review of dungeons. That's quite a fun idea. Yeah. I like the note of the maiden tower, which I think like that is a thing on a couple castles. But I think it means like, you know, it's hard to say that it's impenetrable. I think that's what it means in the castles. It's a real thing on but I

quite like it being repurposed as they're like, put the bride to be in there. Yes, and the Duchess sleeping between them keeping an ear out for the hanky and the panky. Oh, no hanky nor panky. Thank you very much. Thank you ever so much. Unless of course, you've got a friendly witch with a broomstick. Even then, not so much hanky and panky. No hanky or panky, but certainly activities that she would not approve of such

as the library. Yes, going off for a little fly. Oh, we didn't even talk about Letitia's bookpress. Well done, Letitia and her bookpress. Oh, yeah, good effort. It's really very important that you move your hand away quickly. Really quite fast. Thank you. This is going to happen. And I'd rather you have all your fingers at the end of it. Very much. So little bits we liked.

Little bits we liked. So I like some of the little callbacks, in my opinion, to Witches Abroad. So obviously, the big one is Tiffany burning her hand during this battle, I would say is a pretty fair mirror. Ah mirrors to witches abroad and granny burning her hand in the battle with Lily. Also just a couple of little bits like that would suggest that witches abroad adventures were just inexplicable and would never happen. But we know they did. There's things like as for having a cat on the broomstick with you that doesn't they're thinking about?

Well, quite. And then when they're talking about the sleeping beauty type mythology, saying, I'm not sure that it ever did happen. I mean, people going to sleep for 100 years, when all the trees and plants grow up all over the palace, how's that supposed to work? Why were the plants sleeping as well? Well, that's a very good point, Tiffany. And the answer is stories. Power of stories. I'm doing jazz hands listeners. And I think that explains that. Perfect. Oh dear. How about you?

Stones with holes in. Stones with holes in? Hagstones. We love hagstones. Love the hagstones. I was trying to find mine to hold up for the camera, but I packed it. It was one of the first things I packed with my special things and rocks. Mine is in the next room. I didn't actually think of bringing it to show on camera. Yeah, we already talked about the big shambles and things next week. Last week. Sorry, just travelled through time now.

Joanna, the universe! Do not interfere with the causal nature of the universe. But yes, I like when Tiffany's assembling a shamball here and she pulls a stone with a hole in it out of her pocket. She always picked up small stones with holes in them because they were lucky. She kept them in her pocket until the stone wore through the cloth and fell out leaving only the hole. Yes. It just delighted me. This again reignites my hope that I will find a Suffolk hagstone one of these days we have we have some very wonderful listener donated hagstones in all possession, but one day I will find one I'll find one on the floor.

You will Francine. I have similar turf to the chalk here. The Iron Maiden. Not my favourite band. Yeah, I like the well, first of all, I like the idea of them like spending a lot of money on torture implants, and then going, we're not gonna use these. But it's like, at some point, one of the Barons or one of the Dunham Masters or whatever saw them in a catalogue, I reckon. Like, yeah, yeah, we can do with those. We'll have those. And then we'll be a proper castle. And they got there like, oh, no, I really like the look of

those. Never mind. Melt them. Except for the Iron Maiden, which has been used as a turnip clamp until the top fell off. There was just something eternally funny about the phrase until the top fell off. Also turnips, turnips never not funny. A turnip is a humorous vegetable. It is without a humorous shape. It is just a turnip. Reminds me of our wedding night. You also like floating things. Yeah, I like the I like the concept of that book floating worlds. They go Oh, yes, the bluebellwood with the cottage that sometimes has smoke coming out of the chimney and sometimes does not and the girl feeding ducks on the pond where the pigeons on the house behind her are sometimes flying and sometimes perched. They are mentioned in H.J. Toadbinder's book Floating Worlds. Would you like it? I know where

it is. Just well, A, the idea that Letitia just got all of this at her fingertips, like all this like incredibly valuable to Tiffany knowledge. And B, just, I love the slowly evolving backstory of historical academia on the disk. What the fuck happened to H.J. Toadbinder? Best not ask. To be honest, I think he probably went too close to one of his subjects and is now somewhere, let's hope somewhere pleasant. I hope so. Yeah, the little detached worlds and things. a nice little discworld concept. Yeah, it also made me really want that book. I'm fully aware it's fictional, but I want that book.

I know, but I reckon some of those might have some tie into folklore. I didn't look into it. I should have done. Listeners, answers on a detached universe? Funerals? I know it's weird to talk about this something I liked, but I love the way Pratchett writes about funerals and especially this funeral, the Baron's funeral. Tiffany's thinking about how it was a good day for a funeral. It shouldn't rain because that makes people too gloomy. She tried not to be gloomy at funerals. And people lived and died and were remembered. It happened in the same way that winter followed summer. It was not a wrong

thing. There were tears of course, but they were for those who were left. Those who had gone on did not need them. And it's such a beautiful thought and a beautiful way to think about it. Speaking of someone who's attended my fair share, I thought it was a wonderful piece of writing. Then Nanny, just being incredibly human and cheering everyone up at the funeral in the end, she asked if he was a good man, will he be remembered fondly, did he die well? It is right. Then she jumps up and she starts singing Pleasant and Delightful and gets the room singing.

Yes. Pleasant and Delightful being another nice repeating motif. Yes, the song running through the book. Yeah, yeah. Oh, just wonderful. Yeah, Nanny Og just being just a party catalyst. That's what she is. Yeah, and the way Tiffany just thinks about her being so human, I'll talk about it a bit more but it's just, it delights me. I love Nanny Yogg.

Me too. Awesome. Onto the bigger stuff then. Tell me about hairs. Hairs! Ooh, they're a fun one, aren't they? They're the subject of so much mythology and folklore that obviously we're not going to go into all of it by any means. So I thought I'd pick on a couple of the themes. Yeah. So, well, first of all, why why is the hair? Why is the hair everywhere? Why is it such a massive part of folklore and mythology all over the world? Well, a lot of my information for this comes from

Leaping Hair by George E. Evans and David Thompson. And they reckon that a hair is an archetype. So it's one of the first building blocks of animal folklore mythology. So when early people were coming up with ways to explain the world, they naturally used the animals around them. And the hair was just one of these that happens to be across the world. And it became yeah, became an archetype became a building block. And the hair and the moon, I would say is one of the biggest pairings, name a more iconic duo. And like, again, weirdly associated across the world. In Chinese mythology, for instance, instead of a man in the moon, it was the hair and the moon for a long time, which is pretty cool. And the kind of association may have been brought about

by the fact that they are seen a lot in the moonlight, which sounds obvious. So an ex-poacher now naturalist told Evans and Thompson that he'd often see them on moonlit nights. And he recognized this is simply because they're easier to spot in the light, but the association may have formed like this on a full moon, you see fucking hairs everywhere. And as to why it's hairs out and about rather than as a nocturnal beasties, it's simply they're characteristic, they prefer to stay out in the open where they can maneuver because their strength is the big old fucking runs around the mazes and yeah, jumping over things. In farming tradition, the moon and the weather are very closely tied. So there was a

saying around around these parts actually in East Anglia, let the old hair sit, which means basically, we'll see what the weather's like when this moon is over. And that's what you mean. And that might be tied in because the hair's gestation period was traditionally thought to be around 30 days. We now know it's over 40. But the old wisdom went a hair and a mare make a year. In other words, 11 months pregnancy for a mare and a month or one moon cycle for a hair. And then the other big pairing is Hairs and Fire. And that's a big one for this book, obviously. Yeah. And there was a long association between the two to the point where seeing

one could be considered the sign of an impending fire. So if you saw one running down the street, you'd be like, Oh, fuck, it's gonna be a house fire along here. Yeah. But you know, why? Partly, of course, we have the motif of this book, the hair jumps into the fire. People would have seen that a gamekeeper from Suffolk reported that I it's written down, they're always written down in dialect. It's really hard not to do it. I'm just gonna read it. I always see them come through the fire come right out of it and they'll nearly do all that get through the fire to get back. But all the heath get on fire March time when there's no cover on the land, they go right through the fire. And there's some speculation and this book is from the 70s. But I know

makes sense to me. Some speculation. This might be partly because the hare doesn't want to go where the smoke is going and the smoke is going the other way. Yeah, so basically, they use their sense of smell more than anything else. And so they jump over the fire to do that. Another possible explanation. This is from a more recent article. I think this is 2016 from folklore. Another possible explanation has less to do with the hares immediate interaction with flames than with the longer term impact of fire on hairs. 2016 study in fact, this article must be even newer found that only a year after wildfires, hair populations in burnt areas are actually higher than populations in unaffected areas, with hairs showing an increased abundance until the fourth

year after the wildfire. And so this is more likely explanation in some ways because watching a hair jump through the flames, although it's something you're never gonna fucking forget, isn't going to be something you see that often unless you're a farmer who's burning stubbles. Which is no longer practiced in this country. which is no longer practiced in this country. And the yeah, the articles are the vision of an apparently unaffected hair surrounded by cinders likely contributed to the association of the animal with fire, and is possibly an origin of a fire breathing hair motif, which appears in lots of the novelty and folklore. Love that.

And then as for the belief that hairs may foretell an impending fire, it may owe something to wildfires flushing woodland creatures like hairs out of their normal domain and into more densely populated areas that they generally avoid. So basically, they get there before the flames did, but there was flames on the way. Which is pretty cool, I think. And then going from that, it's the hair as the omen. Yeah, they may be seen as an omen for fire, and as lots of other things. And as to why they ended up with such a bad reputation. Again, you can speculate whichever direction you want. I'm not sure I quite buy into this,

but it's a neat little explanation from the book, which is a sacred animal can become an uncanny animal, as heathen gods become devils when their worshipers change their faith. The process is a very common one. I don't know about that. I suppose it might have had something to do with it. If it had been known as a pagan good fortune, something, something associated with witches. I get it. It's never ever that simple, is it? No. I'm always very iffy about something like, oh, it has a pagan origin and then the story was twisted by the church. It's an explanation that happens a lot and is almost always an oversimplification.

Jess Exactly. But yeah, so as we probably all know, Aheir in a lot of folkloric tradition is seen as an unlucky omen, especially if she crosses your path. So apparently, people in the countryside would sometimes simply go home until after the next meal if a hare crossed their path because that is long enough to, I think the meal is like a checkpoint. A marker of time. Yes. They don't have to go back out again. One person said, if one sees a hare going around one's health woodish ins against the sun, then look out, some disaster is to befall you. I have to ask, how many people

saw a hair run anti-clockwise around their house for this to be something that came up? Sarah- Maybe it's one of those things where no one actually saw it, but you knew someone in the next village had. Jess- Yes, yeah, absolutely. Oh yeah, I heard an old man, Simpkins, had a hair run with his shins around his cottage and you know what happened to him he fell into the wine cellar. I was fucking witches eh. Yeah wasn't there something about like hairs as witches familiars was a very common thought as well? Either witches familiars or a witch herself transmogrified. And so either way obviously a target for being stoned and all kinds of horrible things

like that. And one of the superstitions was a witch in the shape of a hair could only be shot with a sixpence. And depending on who you ask, that sixpence would have to be silver or would have to be crooked. Best make it silver and crooked to be on the safe side. Yeah, I think that's not a bad idea actually. Somebody said in one of these, the greatest of all northern wizards, Michael Scott, even known as the borders with wizard was turned into a hair by the witch of false hope. I did not have time to name but I will be doing this evening. And just a few other silly little bits of superstition

here. We talked before about a name having power and calling something by something other than its name. So like the bear, not being a sir anymore. You're not meant to say the word hair, especially not on a boat. Or rabbit, I think. It's a good thing we're not a seafaring podcast then. We're not a seafaring podcast. We don't stop going on about rabbits. You could call them those furry things. Or you could call them by one of many kind of first names, you know, how he used to call, you know, Robin Redbreast is like a first name. Yeah, you could give the hair is one of many, many names, I think around here. Sally, old Sally was a name for her. Yeah. And then favorite version of that is this poem from I think, late 13th

century. Here we go. It has 77 different names given to the hare. And apparently, if you recited it, it would deliver the hare into your power, into the hunter's power. And I'm not going to read it out, not least because it doesn't rhyme unless it's in Middle English and nobody wants to hear me try to pronounce Middle English. But little bits go, the dew beater, the dew hopper, the sitter on its form, the hopper in the grass, the fidgety-footed one, the sitter on the ground, the lightfoot, the sitter in the bracken, the stag of the cabbages, the cropper of herbage, etc. The stag of the cabbages. The stag of the cabbages.

Incredible. There's quite a lot of talk about how has is long enough and rigid enough as compared to rabbits, that they do look a lot like horns. Right. So they've got a bit of association with the stab, which is obviously another big motif through folklore, the ominous in different ways type thing. Yes. And talking of herbage, talking of herbage. Apparently, the hare first taught us this is through this might have been through this dictionary of superstitions, I might be wrong. But the hare first taught us the use of the herb called wild suckery, which is very excellent for those who are

disposed to be melancholic. She herself is one of the most melancholic beast that is and to heal her infirmity, she goes commonly to sit under that herb. And that is another recurring thing that the hair is a very melancholy animal. I assume because it's always seen alone. But it comes off as like you shouldn't eat a hair because it's so sad. Right. This is bad meat because the hair was such a sad animal. Don't eat that. And finally, I thought I'd wrap up with something that's nothing to do with anything but a fun story. According to one Cornwall folklore, a maiden who has been deceived and dies haunts her deceiver in the guise of a white hair, sometimes saving his life but at the end causing his death. Love it. That's fun. Anyway, there's so fucking

much. As I say, an entire book over here. There are countless folklore articles, the Dictionary of Superstition has several pages devoted to it. I tried to pick vaguely relevant ones. I was going to ask about the book actually, because that's the book that Pratchett references in the author's note that he read part of the research for writing this book. Oh, which one? Sorry, The Leaping Hat? The Leaping Hat. Oh, is it? Oh, right. Well, yes, that does surprise me because it wasn't hard to find corresponding bits.

Yeah, you're very much reading from the same source there. Yeah, and the author's note, he... Oh, no, that's the Fiegel glossary. Hang on. The author's note is a lovely story about how he learned about things like the stubbles burning, old man he knew. Oh, I'm at a clash, I didn't read past the Glossary. Yeah, when I was much older, I found in a secondhand bookshop a book called The Leaping Hair written by Georgie Ewer Evans and David Thompson and I learned things that I would not have dared to make up. I was going to ask you about it because I've now got a copy on the way, obviously.

Oh, good. Yes. But it was very tricky to Google because I forgot there's a very nice restaurant near us also called The Leaping Hare. Oh yeah, no, you need to put the authoring with that. Yeah, I had to be a bit more specific. However, I do now really fancy a little trip over to Wiccan so I might do that at some point. I haven't been to Leaping Hare. Ah, it's lovely. Very good food.

Not hare, I hope, because that's melancholic. Yes, no, as far as I know, they don't serve melancholic hair. There's also just one of those ridiculous lies that's always stuck with me in The Little White Horse, which is a favorite book of mine. The main character of this girl finds a hair and befriends it and the hair is named Serena. She takes the hair home and she shows it to her, I think it's technically her brother that they're living with in his manor house and she says, and this is my friend Serena and she is not ever to be put in a party. And she says, I wouldn't dare if I

was going to cook her, she's a marvellous creature, she'd be jugged in the finest port. Anyway. Now, I've wondered before about jugging as a cooking method. You never hear it apart from for rabbits and hares, do you? Yeah, I'm not sure how one jugs. I'm not sure. I've never jugged. Well, if you do jug, please get back to me and tell me if you can jug something else. Yes, I'll see if I can jug a chicken.

Yes. Don't you dare put it in a pie. Love a chicken pie. Anyway, hairs, fascinating. Yes. What about witches? They're friends. Got any thoughts on those? Something that I've been thinking about, especially with this book, is Pratchett obviously does lots of these big round world comparisons, allegories, what have you. Riders hand movements have become expansive already listeners, just to let you know. This is going to be exciting. But I think the witches feel really unique as an arc because although you get individual books parodying something, obviously Weird Sisters doing Shakespeare and Carpe Juggulam

as Dracula in Gothic literature, there's less of this immediate modern day parallel with the witches. The Watch obviously you have policing and you can think about that in a modern day context as well. Even the wizards, like as the other big magic user on the disk, there's this big making fun of posh universities and stuff with it. So witchcraft in the books, and obviously again, there are some modern day comparisons to individual witches. I think we've all met a nanny og or two in our time. Hopefully we're lucky enough to.

I'm aiming to become one. I think I'm built for it. So I think the Witches books- You work out like jugging, you'll be there in it. Sorry. The Witches books and the Witchcraft in the books becomes a different kind of fantasy for Discworld. I know broadly, the whole thing is a fantasy series, but it's a fantasy series that speaks a lot to us. The witch has become this sort of fantasy of what if we had people who could and what if we had people who

would. And then because it's pretty much engages with the negatives of all of that as well. It doesn't just say, wouldn't it be wonderful if it says, wouldn't it be wonderful if except Yeah, it's pure proper speculative fiction. Yeah. And so the witch is some of the thing. What happens if thing happens? Yeah, the proper term for it. The witches are some of the most fantastical elements in the Discworld books, but they're also the most deeply human. Because it's not what happens if thing happens. But it manages to encompass so many small moments of what happens if things happen. So obviously we have the negativity of it. We have this nice insight of people hated

the fact that they needed witches. They sort of took it personally. Why are you so skilled and know these things and why do you think you're better than us? And of course, definitely acknowledging, no, I'm just better at this, the same way, you know, other people are better at knitting and I can make it all right cheese. And it's that one sentient cheese that we don't discuss. And then you have Letitia as this massive contrast to Tiffany. So you have this, whereas Tiffany had to fight and claw her way into witchcraft, it comes to Letitia so naturally. And she's sort of got this innocence along with having this power because it's just this thing she can do and

it's fine. Yes. I wish I was born with your disadvantages. Yeah. Obviously comes a lot of naivety because she's not been taught it's a terrible thing to be a witch alone, a witch needs supervision and guidance because there's nothing to stop Letitia from cackling. No. Well, no, she went straight for the fucking head in a bucket. Yeah. But from a $1 magic book that shouldn't have worked.

Yes. And so you have the idea of witches as they're people we want to know they're people we want to have around us. The witches who saw things that no one should have to see alone and in the darkness and they could do the things that had to be done. And it's a horrible, unpleasant thing, but they are the people you always hope exist, the people you can do the things that have to be done. And the comparison, the wizards, when Tiffany's looking at the tapestry and the cunning and wouldn't it be nice to be a wizard? I could just conjure up those nights to fight one last battle. Yes, yeah. Because that's wizard magic. Because it's the shortcut problem solving as opposed to

the my entire life is just untangling one giant accordion knot of clip toenails. Go on runes, give it the old Professor Hip Goblin's tapestry animator. All right, place on fire, never mind, back to the university. Cheese board. Cheese board. Cheese board. Speaking of cheese board, when Nanny getting the funeral singing, which I talked about and Tiffany's response to that, I should have learned this, I wanted to learn fire and pain, but I should have learned people. And that's what Pratchett is so good at. Pratchett

has learned people and so he gives us these fantastical ideas of the people we want the most. And this real, real magic of Nanny being able to turn this room full of awkward people into people who were, who, human beings who knew they were a mug on the human beings and right now that was all that needed to matter. It's beautiful and it's wishful because it can happen. Yeah, it can. Yeah, and it can and it does. It's interesting to think of either nanny og or granny weather wax having to function without the other. Because I think if you are a nanny og, you can be a nanny og knowing that there's a granny

where the wax up the road and vice versa. Tiffany I think is being a little bit hard on herself because she's trying to be both and she's not yet 16. Yeah. And this short Oh, I haven't learned to sing like nanny og yet who is much, much older and has been, you know, drunk for longer than you've been alive. And she's 16 and she's in charge of a massive steadying that is not used to witches. Yeah, yeah. She's doing very well. Well done, Tiffany. Don't worry about it. Well done, Tiffany. Perhaps she acknowledges the downside to being this kind of person,

Tiffany on the broomstick. When you wrote it, you look down on people and you can help it no matter how much you tried. The unfortunate side of being someone who is aggressively competent, who is capable, who can help is that you become separated. I think quite a lot of the wrap up is little hints towards other people will be helping out. You cannot do it. You can't be the only person in the studying who is helping old people in their legs. Exactly. That's not gonna work long term. There are kids learning how to be a bit more useful. There are kids learning sex ed like mentioned boys learning about girls girls learning about boys topical. Project pro sex ed. Yeah.

And if you think about it in the context of this studying, it means that there won't necessarily be unexpected pregnancies. There's an implication earlier in the book about people who live near nanny not having to worry as much and this implication that nannies performing abortions when necessary. Yeah, or just giving out contraception. Or just, yeah, as contraception exists on the disk. Well, song keys, of course. Song keys, of course, and various halves, I think. Yeah. And then you have alongside those negatives of it, you have the theme of pride and whether or not it's a bad thing coming back around and around again. Of course, as I said, pride is what

Tiffany wins the day with. Pride is being given equal stead in with anger. So we've had anger as the emotion that you can harness and use as a weapon, as Vimes has. As long as you control it and let it out at a high pressure, directed at something, I guess pride is the same. Similar to carrying the pain on your shoulder until you can put it away somewhere and if necessary throwing it at someone or something. Yeah. It's what toxic positivity ought to be. It's like here are the upsides of these horrible, negative things.

Yes. And yeah, Tiffany thinks about it. It prides not a sin because the blacks would pride themselves on doing a good job. We pride ourselves on making a good history of our lives, a good story to be told, which – what a fucking Pratchett line. Oh yeah. And I love that. Do you know what? I fucking love that as well because it's very much like the whole – I hate – it's so anti-crabbucket. Yeah. Yeah. Which is the new type of anti-matter. The hot new anti-crabbucket. But yeah, the

whole rhetoric of, oh, you know, she just wants attention. She wants this, that, oh, he's, you know, he's attention seeking. Oh, why is she so off herself? Whatever. It's like, everybody wants attention. What do you think human beings are? Yes, they want to be proud of themselves. Why do you think, you know, what's the internal reward for working for this, that and the other? Like pathologising the harmless parts of human nature. Very much so. And we get a really big contrast of pride right at the end when the chalk is okay with Tiffany again, and everything's been resolved and at the wedding, and the witches tell us she did a

good job and applaud her and everyone joins in. And the way the people of the talk are responding is these elderly experienced important scary witches were paying their respects to Tiffany, who was their witch. And clearly, she was a very important witch and so the Chalk was a very important place. And they knew that all along. But it's nice to have it acknowledged and they stood a little straighter and felt proud. A lot of bad feelings seems to have just evaporated, obviously, as the cunning man withers away. That's very, a little bit of least said soon as mended, isn't it really? Because a lot of the bad feeling was just unsaid and Tiffany was just getting vibes.

Yeah. And she's, I think she's willing to let those vibes have passed. The other big prideful character of course is the Duchess. Yeah. And that you do see some of the negative side of Pride. In that she's kind of horrible. Yeah, which I suppose is when Pride stems from insecurity instead of security. Yeah, I was about to say it's an insecurity thing. She's overcompensating for her musical past. Yeah.

Fear. Yeah, this worry of being found out. As you said, overcompensating. To come full circle with my quote, Tiffany talks about weddings and funerals and said these strange times, times of beginnings and endings, dangerous and powerful. endings dangerous and powerful. And Tiffany makes something beautiful and that's what a witch can do. The fire is burning, they're running from the cunning man, they jump over the fire and she sounds leap, knave, jump, whore, be married now forevermore. Which I love that, again, not just coming full circle to my quote, coming full circle to the beginning of the book where Tiffany's sort of thinking about the stuff nannies told her about old weddings and jumping over fire and the rude

words. And this is a wedding, she said to herself, a fresh start and for a few seconds in the world, this is a place of power. And so she's aware of this possibility of powers and she takes it and quite literally runs with it and jumps over the fire. So yeah, the idea of witchcraft as such a deeply fantastical element of Terry Pratchett's books, because he's not necessarily pointing at one thing, although obviously we have our history of realm world witchcraft and we talked about that a lot last week, it allows him to really explore humanity in a way a different kind of magic doesn't. I think this book is incredible. Yep. Well said.

Thank you. Have you even got an obscure reference for me? I have. It's a good one. You'll like this one. At one point, Roland is holding what is described as a fool's cap of paper. And Tiffany snapped it from him as she's corrected it. And I was like, what's a fool's cap of paper? And it is a bit bigger than A4, basically folio size, it might be known as now, shortened to FC. And it's called a fool's cap because back in the day, it would have had a watermark on it, which was a jester's cap with bells on it in the early days of papermaking right up until reasonably recent times different sizes of paper would have different watermarks on and the fool's cap,

which I'm just going to send you a picture and signal now, was the common one for this size of paper. Love it. Nice, right? Yeah. And the British Association of Paper Historians is what I'm going to link to for this size of paper. Yeah, love it. Nice, right? Yeah. And the British Association of Paper Historians is what I'm going to link to for this. Because that's amazing. Every time I research something for this podcast, I find a new incredibly niche society. Only I had the money and the time to be a member of them all. Oh, I wish I could. That's what I'll do if I ever become a mortal or a vampire

or something. I'm going to join all the weird little societies. Incredible, I love it. Okay, I think that's all we're going to say for now about I Shall Wear Midnight. We are obviously going to have our monthly break. We'll be back on the 3rd of June with Snuff. I think it's Snuff. Yeah, sounds plausible. Yep. I haven't got the spreadsheet in front of me, so I'm going to say it's Snuff. Until then, of course, dear listener, you can join our Discord, link down below. You can follow us on Instagram at the true show, Make You Fret, on Twitter, on Blue Sky, at Make You Fret Pod, on Facebook at the true show, Make You Fret, join us on Reddit, r-slash-ttsnyf,

email us your thoughts, queries, castles, snacks and extra dimensions to the true show make you fret pod at gmail.com. If you want to support us financially, go to patreon.com forward slash the true show make you fret where you can exchange your hard earned pennies for all sorts of bonus nonsense. And of course, please rate and review the podcast wherever you get your podcasts. For algorithmic witchcraft reasons. Yes, and also just because we like validation, or I do. Yeah, yeah. And after this long discussion, we now know that's a good thing. Yeah, help us be prideful. And until next time, dear listener, listen. And the larks they sang melodious, and the larks they sang melodious, and the larks they sang melodious at the dawning of the day. That was a short snippet of Terry Pratchett himself singing the larks they sang melodious. It was taken from a longer recording made by the Folklore Society,

in which you can hear a little more of Pratchett singing that song, and a longish conversation between him and Jacqueline Simpson with whom he co-authored the folklore of Discworld and the conversation covers folklore in general and both of their histories with it and it's very, very cool. I will link to it in the show notes of course and I very strongly recommend you listen to the rest of it and that you check out everything else the folklore society has to offer.