The Ultimate Blog Podcast - 89. Freelancing, Growth Mindset, and Authentic Entrepreneurship with Kirsti McNabney

Episode Date: August 29, 2023

On today’s episode, we have Kirsti McNabney on the show to talk more about freelancing as another stream of income in your blogging business. Kirsti is a freelance marketing strategist and owner of Kirsti McNabney Creative, where she helps creative entrepreneurs strategize and create thoughtful content to connect with their ideal audience. We chat more about freelancing opportunities alongside blogging, more on growth mindset, and authentic entrepreneurship in general. We hope this episode helps you and encourages you to think outside of the box when thinking about blogging and adding in another stream of revenue through freelancing. Tune in to hear this great conversation with Kirsti!Thanks for listening! Connect with us on Instagram: @sparkmediaconceptsApply to the Ultimate Blog Membership! We would love to have you!Check out the show notes (link below) for more information including links and resources mentioned in today's episode!SHOW NOTES: www.sparkmediaconcepts.com/episode89

Welcome to the Ultimate Blog Podcast with Amy Reinecke and Jennifer Draper. We're on a mission to empower women who want to start or grow their own blog. This podcast is for women who want to learn blogging basics and who crave inspiration and encouragement. Whether you're just getting started or have been a blogger for years, we're excited to welcome you into this space where we are passionate about creating community over competition. We are bloggers who want to encourage you to believe in your potential, step outside the norm, and step into a life where you create your own schedule, your own success, and your own story. Join us for weekly episodes as we navigate blogging

and work from home life, all while raising a family and having some serious fun along the way. all while raising a family and having some serious fun along the way. So today we are turning the mic over to Kirstie McNabney. And we had the pleasure of being on her podcast a while back. And her podcast is called Thinking About Podcast. We were on episode 44. And we loved our time with Kirstie so much that we invited her here to chat with all of you. And we are going to chat about freelancing today as another stream of revenue in your blogging business. So a little bit about Kirstie is she is a freelance marketing strategist and owner of Kirstie McNabney Creative, where she helps creative entrepreneurs strategize and create thoughtful content to connect with their ideal audience. And she's also the host of the Thinking About podcast.

And her podcast really does allow you to do just that. Think about something. So thinking about those chats with a friend that keep you thinking long after they end. It is a great podcast you should definitely listen to. And through that platform, she's hosted guests including Scout Sobel, Sif Hader, Danielle Robe, and many more. Kirstie is passionate about creating community with like-minded people, helping people bring their dreams to life, cooking

delicious meals and exploring the world. I love that. And I'm so glad that you're here. Thanks. I'm so glad that I'm here too. This is so fun. Like a crossover episode. Yes. Yes. So we are going to dive into freelancing today, which if people are listening, they're probably like, hmm, freelancing and blogging. This is interesting. Okay. Because for a long time, like we kind of chatted about before hitting record today, I think for a long time, we've thought about blogging as like the single vision, like kind of tunnel vision. It's just sitting down and writing content. And I'm just talking about the same thing, theoretically, in a lot of different ways. But really, what Jennifer and I are really

passionate about sharing with our community is that blogging is actually a much wider scope than that. And freelancing fits into that scope. And so how about you share with our community a little bit, Kirstie, how you got started with freelancing and a little bit about your own journey here. So I started freelancing when I had a full-time job. So I have since transitioned to freelance full-time, but I really started it. It's a random story. I was chatting with a friend of mine who I hadn't seen in a while. He's a photographer and I was helping one of my friends with something on her website, not for pay, just because I was helping because that's a skill set that I have.

And he had done all the photos. So I reached out to him. And I was like, Oh my gosh, I forgot how talented you were. One day, when I have a business, I'll need you to take photos of me, which I had no plans at that time to have a business at all. I'm actually not really sure why I said that. But he was like, well, what do you want to do? And I was like, I don't know, social media maybe. And he was like, well, do you want to do my fiance's company's social media? LOL, this is all on Instagram DM. And I read it to my boyfriend. It was during the pandemic. And I was like, do you think this LOL means that he's joking? Or do you think that this is a real thing? So I kind of fell into it and it just kind of escalated from there. But the purpose of why I wanted to do it when I think about the why is because I was working in a space that was really

exciting and I loved it at the time, but it was very much the same stuff over and over. And I like to be very creative in many different ways. And so I wanted something outside of my job that gave me an opportunity to be a little bit more creative. Obviously, it gave me some more revenue, which was really nice. And I really, my partner likes to joke a lot that I love homework. I just liked having more to do. But it was always, it wasn't really the plan. But when I look back, I can see all the steps that got me there. But the whole purpose of what I wanted to do was because I wanted something to get a creative outlet, but also be making some extra money because that mattered to me at the time. And it was nice and it was exciting to do. And

then it kind of just snowballed into what it became today. I think that happens for a lot of people. I feel like sometimes even if we don't see it, the story is already setting itself up to take our life in the direction that it's supposed to go. So I think that's such a cool story that it's sort of like, in your mind, it fell into your lap, but it probably was like a long time in the making in so many different ways. And you obviously had the skills, whether you realized it or not, you had the skills that the other person saw in you, and they thought that you would do a good job with it. A hundred percent. So the reason that I met him initially was because my friend who I had been doing the

website for, she was a stranger to me in like 2015, but wanted to host an event, which was what I was doing at the time as my job and like was my background. And she, I followed her because I found her inspirational and she posted that she was hosting a Toronto event and did anyone know any event planners? And I just randomly reached out to her. So like all of this time, it has all come back to like random steps that I have made. event and did anyone know any event planners? And I just randomly reached out to her. So all of this time, it has all come back to random steps that I have made. And I think that it's so much easier to look back and see those steps. But I also use it now as a reminder that anytime

I go through a lesson or something doesn't make sense, it's going to make sense eventually. And it's going to get me to the next level of wherever I'm going. And I find a lot of comfort in that, especially as someone who works for myself now. It's nice to remember that on the hard days. I absolutely love that way of thinking. I don't think that thinking is natural to a lot of us. But generally, we have some instances that happen or some circumstances that we have to go through that help us have that mindset. Like, okay, I know I'm in this through that help us have that mindset. Like, okay, I know I'm in this season for a reason. Oh, yeah. And I think it's a beautiful thing when we can kind of look back and say, okay, that happened for that reason. So then when the next like obstacle comes, you don't stay stuck in that negative thinking and that kind of self-fulfilling

prophecy of negativity that, you know, what's happening is happening to you instead of happening for you. We can look at things like, okay, what's the lesson here? So this might really suck where I'm at right now. And this is really unfortunate, but I'm going to learn a lesson out of this. And I think as an entrepreneur, that's a muscle that we have to continually strengthen is that muscle of resiliency, essentially. 100%. Yeah. I went to school thinking I was going to be a doctor. That was my goal that I made when I was nine years old. Clearly, I'm not, as we can all tell by the bio that you mentioned. But I dropped out of school, which was a really hard decision for me because

I had always been really good at school. That was my personality trait for such a long time. And I was having a breakdown. I was 20 years old, having a breakdown, really upset about the whole situation, even though I knew that it was the best thing to do. And my mom was... I can picture her so clearly. And she was like, this is so hard, but this is going to be a moment that really sets you up for the rest of your life. And it has taken me 10 years to get to a point where that makes sense to me all of the time. But I think about that

and I mentioned that to people so, so often because I really do think that the hardest things that you go through are often what shape you into the person that you are. And I think that when you think of the difficult times as lessons and what you can get out of them, it just makes it like the times are still hard. Don't get me wrong on that at all, but it makes it much easier to move through it rather than get stuck and just be like, well, I'm going to give up now because it's not working. Instead of looking at it through a lens

of like, what is this teaching me? What am I going to get out of this? And I think you can grow so much further that way. So it's a lesson that I'm still trying to learn, but it has been very helpful on my journey so far. Sounds like you're doing a fantastic job because I think so many of us struggle with things like that when When bad things happen, we don't always have that control. But what we do have control of is how we respond to what we learn from it and how we move forward. And like you said, you can choose to stay stuck or you can take the lesson and apply that to your life and keep moving forward and maybe in a different direction. Yeah, 100%.

And I feel like the other thing is one that I'm learning now, because I do try to think about that. But I also think that there's value in just being in the hard part sometimes, which I try to skip through. I hate being sad. I struggle with that emotion. And I'm always like, so frustrated at myself about being upset. And my boyfriend is always like, you know, you could just be sad instead of being stressed about being sad. And then you don't have to deal with all of that. So I think that we can feel it and experience it and then start to move forward. And that's like the missing puzzle piece that I didn't get for a long time, I think. Yeah. So tell us like what transpired next. So you, you took on this one client, you were still working your full-time job. Obviously that's not where you're at today. What happened next? So I started doing social with them and it had transitioned into other things. And then I just, I, we were working on a photo shoot for the company that I was, they hired someone on to produce with us.

So I was working closely with that person and she had a bunch of her own clients and we worked together so well that she was like, are you interested in any other work? And it kind of like snowballed from there. And I was part of communities that I had been a part of for a while because I really like joining communities. I like to keep learning all of those things. And through those communities and conversations of like, this is what I'm doing on the side, or this is what I'm working on. It kind of just like flowed into a lot of different opportunities. And I think something that was helpful is I was willing to do a lot of different opportunities. And I think something that was helpful is I was willing to do

a lot of different things, which I don't know if that would be my advice now looking back, but to get started, I think that it's helpful. And it got to a point where I was working full time. And then I was also freelancing a lot of my time and I couldn't see a world where I could do both of those things. And so I launched my podcast and I was very hyped up about the fact that I was achieving a dream that I had had for such a long time. And it hit my deadlines for that. And then I talked to my partner and I was like, what if I just did this full time? Because we also had seven weddings to attend that year. And I was like, I have so many things on the go. There's no way I can keep working on weekends and nights and also showing up for my job and all of those things. And I fully expected him with full

transparency. I was like, he's going to say that's crazy. And then that's the end of that. That's totally fine. And he was like, why wouldn't you? And so that was kind of scary because I really, I don't think at that time I was ready to be doing it, but he believed in me. And I also had accomplished this other goal that I had. So I was like, well, I guess I'll set a deadline for that. So I decided, I think it was March that I launched the podcast and I decided that I could probably leave by May and my job. And I started talking to the clients that I did have. And I asked them if there was any other work that they needed. And they all were also very supportive. And they were like, how much do you need? Because we'll

figure out a way to give you enough work that you can survive, which I've been incredibly lucky with the people that I work with. And yeah, so I kind of just did that decision. I remember being like, what if I can't pay the rent? And Mark, my boyfriend was like, well, we'll figure it out. And I was like, wow, I don't have any excuses left. I have to just do this. So yeah, then I just built on that. Isn't that kind of scary when everybody else believes in you

and you still have that little twinge of doubt? And you're like, oh no. Everybody else believes that I can do that and I am the only one holding myself back. I'm so glad that you shared all of that because I think that that is a very common feeling with anybody who's putting themselves out there because there is comfort

in knowing that you go to a nine to five job and you have a paycheck that's steady income and all of that. And when you're freelancing or when you're blogging or podcasting or whatever, that income is not always a guarantee. There might be some things that are a guarantee over time. And that's the kind of business that we would obviously encourage you to build, is knowing where your revenue is coming in. But when you start, oftentimes, it doesn't look like that. But I love what you said

about when you started. And I know that you don't think this is a good advice, but I actually do think it is that you did a bunch of different things. And I think that that's good advice because we can have an idea of what we think that we're good at, or we think that we want to do. But I think that life can kind of surprise us a little bit. I would have never guessed that I would be helping people with websites. I think that life can kind of surprise us a little bit. I would have never guessed that I would be helping people with websites. I say that all the time. There is no way,

8 years ago, if you would have said like, Someday you're going to be helping people with their websites. I'd have been like, You have lost your mind. You have lost your mind. But Jennifer saw something in me that I didn't see in me. So sometimes when you do have that belief from other people, it really does, I think, build your confidence and say, you know what, I can learn this. And I actually do know more than I think I know. And so I think that that's a really... I actually think that's really good advice that you said. Doing all the little things or all these different things that you might not have initially seen yourself doing. Because otherwise, we don't really know where our creativity lies, especially if you've never been in a creative position before.

My background had always been PR events, marketing. So kind of, yeah, you weren't in more of a creative... So you just had that kind of knack. Here's what I'll say. I don't think that some of us think that we're creatives. So I wouldn't say that I would have pictured myself as a creative because I never really utilized that part of myself. But sometimes you can unleash these parts of us as we age and grow older and learn new things. And you're like,

I didn't even know I had that in me. I didn't even know I knew how to do that. So I think that freelancing and working in this creative entrepreneur space can really... It can kind of surprise you sometimes. You're like, wow, I had skills I didn't even know I had because you might be working a job that just doesn't really fulfill you. 100%. I think that it also comes up to opportunities that you have too. And I think that I actually think about the conversation that we had on our podcast a lot because I think of your origin story and I like quoted to people sometimes because I just think that you don't know the network that you have or the reach that you have, or you don't see the power that you have within other people. Like I'm just starting now

to own the fact that like, I do a lot of things to help a lot of people and hype them up and all of these different things that I don't even think twice about. But when I'm scared about whether I have enough work or if I want to be trying new things, I never think that I can actually take advantage of that network, which I'm starting to do. But I think keeping your eyes open. And when I'm looking back, I had dabbled in freelance a lot throughout my life because I just like to do a lot of different things. And I think that when you see opportunities, even if you are not 100% sure that that's something that you really know how to do... I had never actually run a full social media by myself at that point that I said yes to doing

that. I was like, well, I can try this out. And if it doesn't work, it doesn't work. Figure it out and try it as you go. And I think that that's kind of the fun of freelancing is you can really explore all of the things that you're interested in. What if somebody is sitting here thinking, okay, freelancing, that sounds like a good gig. I could try to take on one or two clients, but what in the world would I even do? Do I even have any skills to offer at all to somebody? What advice would you give them to start thinking about things they might be able to do? I think you should look at the places that you like to spend your time and the things that even like things that you like online or the way that you take in information. Like maybe you really

like listening to podcasts or maybe you really like being on social. Like if you're gravitating towards specific things, you probably have some sort of interest in there. And there's so many different ways that you can get even like free advice on things, listening to podcasts. You can learn a lot of things from the internet. That is one of the pleasures of it. So I think that that's a really good part. believer that if you see someone that's doing something that you're interested in, talking to them about it is a really good spot. And just finding opportunities to test out things that you like. I ran an event a couple or I guess a week ago. And one of my friends was talking about how she turned a hobby into a business. And she suggested beta testing things. So like, if you're thinking about starting, try it small. Like, don't feel like you need to dive in a hundred percent and be like, this is my whole job forever. You can literally just be like, if you're interested in social,

maybe there's somebody, you know, that has an account that doesn't want to be doing it because people hate it. Maybe you like it. It's like, maybe there's a place that you can do that. The other thing is, is if you're a blogger and you're listening to this, you have like 800 skills because you're putting a blog together. Like there's so much that goes into blogging. There's like design, there's photography, there's writing, there's SEO, like utilize some of those skills. Think about what it is that lights you up. I think it's really important if you're going to dedicate time that maybe you don't necessarily have in your life right now, because you're balancing a million things, really focus on testing out the things that are exciting to you. Because if you don't, it can feel like you're just having to do things that you don't

want to do. And that's the worst way to have a side hustle, in my opinion. Yeah, you'd end up right back where you started with a job that maybe wasn't fulfilling to you anymore. If you just pursue something just because you think it's what you should do, or what somebody else might say you're good at, or what you think might be profitable. But at the end of the day, if you don't love it, how are you going to really dive into it and have that fulfill you? Well, I think that also lends itself to this idea around our work that it's supposed to be something that we don't enjoy.

I think we just hear that messaging all the time. A lot of people are just very unhappy or unfulfilled in their work. And so there can come with a twinge of guilt when you're like, Oh, I actually love what I do. Yeah. And so look at that as you're considering things like this. What do you love to do? Guess what? You can do that all the time and earn your living doing something that you really love to do because there's literally millions of people around the world doing exactly that. And they're farming out the things that they don't love to do to freelancers, to people who are really good at those things. And I think that that's something important to take note of is

you can work on the things in your business that light you up and make you feel excited and happy. And there are parts of all of our businesses that we don't love and aren't our favorite parts. Now, we have to do some of those, obviously. But if we have the capacity to hire some of those other things out, it really can allow us to stay in with our creative juices because we don't feel pulled back that the things that kind of bring us down. Yeah. And I think that being aware of your creativity,

if you are looking to be a creative freelancer, and this is something that I struggle with often that I'm working on, is I need time to take care of myself to be able to create. I didn't get that connection for a really long time. And so I just was constantly feeling burnt out. And then when you're burnt out, you're like, Oh, what am I doing with my life? Whatever. Yeah. So I think that like, if you're working with anything creative, so if you're writing a blog, it doesn't have to be freelancing.

But I think that you need to make space. And sometimes that means delegating things. And sometimes it means not taking on too much. But you have to have space to be able to be creative if you're going to take that on. And silent walking is something that I'm into right now. So if you're trying to figure out what it is that you want to do, go for a walk with no distractions, spend time in the shower, wherever it is that you get to actually think for a minute. And that can lead to some really good in-depth ideas about what you could potentially do.

Jennifer and I joke. I didn't ever really realize that ideas happened in the shower until she pointed it out. And I'm like, you're exactly right. I literally go take showers even when I don't need them. Sometimes I'm like, I just need to be alone with my thoughts. Yeah. Because we have so much input everywhere else that it can really... I do think it can stunt our creative juices. So it is... Go to the shower. If you take your phone in the shower, I don't know. I would just encourage you not to take your phone in the shower. I would say don't. We do have somebody who listens to our podcast in the shower. She's probably listening to this

episode right now. Hope you're enjoying your shower. You can keep listening in the shower because we love that you're a listener. But I love that. I think that's such great advice. And I think that's something that entrepreneurs for a long time, it's been like this hustle culture. Like go, go, go all the time. You should be doing all the things. That's how you're successful. All of that. And I do think that we are reaching a season that entrepreneurs are feeling it. Oh, yeah. They're feeling the burnout. And they're getting through it. And they're coming back and saying,

Okay, now don't do that. Let me give you a little bit of advice on how I fixed it. And so we've heard a lot of that lately. I feel like being time to sit with yourself, sit with your thoughts, take time off. Don't feel guilty about taking time off either. Have really strong work boundaries. So no. We interviewed someone on the podcast.

I cannot remember who it was. Jennifer, you might remember. But she said she closes her computer, actually powers it down. And then she closes the door to her office. Oh, it's someone in our membership. And she said that. She's like, that's how I set my own boundaries. I power down my computer. I shut my office door. Because by the time you come in your office, open the door, and then you wait for your computer to power up, you're asking yourself the question, what the heck am I doing here? Am I just wasting time or am I actually here for a purpose? Because I do think that that's important. As entrepreneurs, as

bloggers, as freelancers, or whatever you're doing in this space, because we do love it, it's really easy to do it all the time. It's very easy. But then like you just said, then you get burned out. And then none of your creativity is flowing anymore. Exactly. I feel like I got... So I got really burnt out in my corporate career, a few jobs before I went full-time freelance. And I get very stressed out when I feel those things coming on, but I also really love working. It's not just a fun joke that my boyfriend makes. I sit at my computer and then all of a sudden I look up and hours have passed because I just get in the zone. And I've been talking a lot to a business coach that I have

about boundaries, because I think that it's important. And something that she says a lot is that when you're an entrepreneur, you're making something different that works for you. And so as I'm setting boundaries right now, I'm like really considering what helps me work the best. Because I also am very conscious of the fact that I can perform at my best for other people when I'm feeling my best too. So sometimes even when I don't want to take a walk or step away from my computer, I'm like, this is not only going to hurt me, but it's also going to hurt the people that are expecting me to show up. And so I'm trying really hard to spend more time taking care of the person that's doing the work.

I think that's great advice for anybody. Yeah. Honestly, whether you're still in your corporate job. Exactly. Or you're an entrepreneur. We can't pour from an empty cup. And I know that that is because we really do need to be able to take care of ourselves first in order to do our jobs well and to take care of those in our lives well.

Yeah. Are you a blogger and looking for a community of bloggers to network and learn from? We are so excited to share with you that we have created a space for people just like you to learn, connect, and grow in their blogging business. It's called The Ultimate Blog Membership, and we would love to have you join us. The Ultimate Blog Membership is a monthly membership that includes two coaching calls each month and a forum to ask questions and get answers from both of us and others in the community. Each month, we have a coaching call that will help you learn how to grow and improve your blog

by bringing in guest experts and coaching ourselves on topics that will help your business thrive. The other live call each month is a Q&A call where you can hop on and connect with other members and discuss live questions that you have or troubleshoot any areas that need assistance. This community has been incredibly encouraging and motivating since we created it in January of 2022. And we are excited for you to apply to join us. If you are interested in joining us, click the link in our show notes for more information and the application to become part of the group. We want to make sure that we can support you the best. So we have just a few questions that we need you to answer to make sure

we'd be a good fit. We are so excited to connect with you even more in the ultimate vlog membership. Check the show notes to apply today. good at. So I thought it would be fun to just kind of like do a brain dump between the three of us. Like, just like, let's just like say things like what are the freelancing ideas? So Kirstie, I'll let you start and I'll be thinking of some that maybe you don't mention. You can do social media, you can freelance. And so like, you can literally be a freelance florist. One of my friends was doing that. Like there are so many opportunities and I, I don't think you have to turn every hobby into freelance, but I do think that there's opportunities. So if you have a special talent that you're blogging about, maybe there's something there that you can do.

In terms of the marketing world, there's so many different opportunities. But it's like social media, copywriting, website design. You can do specific to different socials if you don't want to be everywhere. You can do podcast editing. You can run events. You can do blog writing. You could do SEO. You can do photography.

You can do email newsletters for bloggers. You can do podcasting or podcast editing. But then you can also do... All podcasts need artwork as well. Maybe you are passionate about graphic design. I mean, you could do graphic design for a number of different things in regards to blogging. You could create ebooks for people. You could create any digital products that they need. A lot of bloggers have the idea, but they don't have the... They might not have the capacity or the talent of creating the product itself.

So they might give you the bones of it and then you create the beautiful thing that they get to sell. I have written blog posts for a company as well. And they pay by the blog post or whatever. And then they're able to post that on their blog or their socials. They've used it in both. You could also do social media posting for brands as well, like you mentioned. Jennifer, what ideas do you have?

I would say even if you don't enjoy some of the more creative aspects like we've talked about, there's lots of other things you can do as well, because everybody needs help with the administration of their business. So you could do their books, you could help them with managing their emails that they get every day, you could do their customer service, if they have a product, you could help assist their students with login problems, you could do so many behind the scenes, you can help with scheduling, you can run their calendars. I mean, people need help with every aspect of their business. So even if you don't enjoy some of the more creative stuff or you don't want to put yourself out there in that way, if you have some experience in your life

where you've been doing some of those more administrative tasks, I think that would be a good place to start too. VAing is something that people really need. If you have that skill set, they love that. And even if you don't And if you have that skill set, they love that. And even if you don't know if you have the skill set... Try it. Yeah. That's how I started with Jennifer. She needed somebody to help with her Pinterest. So what I did when I started with Jennifer was I made her Pinterest images that went for her blog posts,

and then I scheduled them on Pinterest. Okay. Let's rewind to 2016, you guys. I had no idea that bloggers used a scheduling tool to schedule on Pinterest. Here I was like, Oh, I'm gonna have to hang out on Pinterest all day. This is going to be interesting. And she's like, Oh, no, no, no. You use a scheduling tool. I had no idea. So that's something that I know a ton of people do. And quite honestly, I mean, there's obviously some strategy there. But a lot of times bloggers just need their pins out. They just need their content going out in a way. So you could easily create their pin images. In my business, I hire somebody to create my pin images and then pin them on Pinterest. Because that was just an area of my

job that I needed to hire out. It wasn't getting done. And that was an easy thing for me to pass on to somebody else. She does a great job. She has time for it. As soon as I post something, then she has it ready to go. And that's just one step that got taken off my plate in order to continue to stay on that platform. I think that it's important to recognize that entrepreneurs, yes, some do work completely on their own. So I want to obviously have space for that. But you know that that's not a requirement. But there are a lot that do have a lot of help, or one or two people helping them do different things in their business. So just normalizing that, knowing that it's okay. Maybe you're sitting here listening to this and

you're an entrepreneur and you're like, I am drowning. I'm drowning and I want to close shop because I can't continue at this pace. And so maybe we've given you some ideas today of things that you can look for help with. Knowing that there are people out there who can help you with these small day-to-day tasks, I think is just as inspiring. Almost giving you the permission to get the help that you need in order to come back in your business and really enjoy it again. Because like we mentioned earlier, you really should be enjoying your business. Definitely. I highly recommend all that advice. Yeah. And I think that whether you have a skill that you're confident in offering, or if it's something you just want to try, I think you can find people who are willing to give you a chance either way, because, you know, you might go in with like a little bit lower pay or something, but somebody might

teach you some skills, be willing to invest in you in that way and teach you how to do something that then you could turn into a skill that you can offer to others in the future. So I think you just have to really keep your mind open and keep your eyes open to those opportunities. 100%. I think that it's literally when you're starting, it's about being open and testing things out. There's also like so much that you can find if you're like wanting to learn more. Like you can literally go on TikTok and search things. And granted, don't take all of the advice that you find on TikTok. It gives you places to start from. And I think that if you're invested in it and you want to be learning things, you can also do it for free in different

places. People will give you opportunities to test that. You just have to find the right people, which I think is a really important thing. And you grow your pay as you go. So don't get too caught up in that. I think that that was something that my way that I looked at it for the first six months was I'm going to increase this every time I get a new person until I got comfortable enough to know what I should be doing. But I think that it's good to just explore when you're first starting out and try the different things, see what works, see what doesn't, make sure that you don't get scope creep and end up doing all the things for free. But definitely test things out and be open with people about what you do or don't know. That's one of the things that one of my clients said that he likes the best is if he asks for something that I don't know how to do, I'll be like, I can try and figure it out or I can talk to someone and I'll test it.

And we do a smaller rate at that point, but he's really happy that I'm going to try that out because then he doesn't have to figure it out. So I love that you mentioned that because that is one of my favorite things about our podcast manager, Hannah, is there are times like we want to do something or we have a question about something. And if she doesn't know the answer, she is willing to go look and find it. And so having that willingness to learn and figure it out, that's a really healthy quality to have as an entrepreneur yourself. But I think that's a quality to look in if you're wanting to hire someone or you're wanting to be hired. Don't live in this box that you say, I do it this way and only this way. I'm just going to be honest here. You're not going to be very successful if you don't have that mindset that can be pivoted and shifted. So if you hate change, and you like things to be just so all the time...

It's not going to work. It might not. You have to accept roller coasters in this. You do. It is a wave. It is a wave. And it is not... You don't always know what's coming. And so you got to be willing to ride the wave a little bit, quite honestly, and be willing to learn. And I think the really awesome thing about having somebody on your team that is willing to do that is that helps you grow as a business. And if you're the one doing it as a freelancer, that helps you grow your business too. Because then you have more skills and have created a larger skill set that then you can offer to other people.

So when things are shifting, whether it be in your business or something that you're doing for someone, like you said a little bit ago, Kirstie, use that as an idea to say, this is now something that I can offer more of. This is something that... I just basically increased my skill set. So now I can provide this other service or whatever to somebody else. Or now I can teach somebody how to do this in my business. And I can take it off my plate when you figure it out too. I totally agree. I think that that's being open to figuring things out is key if you're running your own business, because you're going to have to figure things out. And also, it just makes people really

appreciate you a lot more. I've always been like a very curious person. So I'm like, maybe I can figure it out. Or if I can't, I think that that's where community is really important too, is you can have people to turn to. Another thing that I've learned now that I know that there's certain things that I don't want to be doing is I will say no to someone, but I always try and have someone to refer them to. So I'm like, I don't do ads, but I do know these three people if you want to chat with them. And then that's really great because they also refer back to me for the things that they don't want to do. So, yeah, it all comes full circle. It does.

Great advice. Yeah. And having that networking community is so important in this space. Yeah. For sure. 100%. Especially when things are changing like all the time. It's nice to have like a Google expert to be like, hey, what the heck's going on with the new analytics?

Because I need to set this up for someone. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Sorry, that's a hard topic for bloggers. We're just going to skate past that one. Yep. By the time this airs, we'll all be on the new Google Analytics.

So that will be past us. And we'll all be figuring out the new thing. So awesome. Okay. This has been so great. And... Thank you. I just thank you so much for coming on and sharing your lessons in freelancing and just being really honest and raw. I think that's really important. And just showing the authentic side of entrepreneurship, I think,

is really important for people to hear. I think it's inspiring. So can you please tell people how they can connect with you? First of all, thank you for having me. So can you please tell people how they can connect with you? First of all, thank you for having me. So nice to see you both again. You can connect with me. You can listen to the podcast wherever you get your podcasts called Thinking About. We talk to entrepreneurs and all sorts of people just about all the things that keep you thinking. You can reach me online at Kirstie McNabney, which hopefully will be in the show notes because it's a lot.

And also at Thinking About Podcast. So if you go to at Thinking About Podcast on Instagram, you can also find my tech from there. And my website will be on my Instagram soon. So if you just head on Instagram, you can send me a DM and we can chat. Awesome. Awesome. Yes. Thank you. I will put it all in the show notes so you can connect. All right. Thanks so much, Kirstie. No problem. Thank you. Thanks so much for tuning in today. If you'd like to continue the conversation about blogging with us, please find us on Instagram at spark media concepts. You can also sign up for our weekly newsletter where we share blogging tips and inspiration. You can sign up by finding the link in the show notes. For those of you who are ready for the next step and want to start

your own blog, join the waitlist for the ultimate blog bootcamp. The link to join the waitlist is also in the show notes. Go out and make today a great day.