The Ultimate Blog Podcast - 92. Pinterest for Bloggers with Kayla Watkins

Episode Date: September 19, 2023

Are you utilizing Pinterest for your blog? We interviewed Kayla Watkins, a Pinterest Strategist. She shares tips on marketing on Pinterest to your target audience such as using keywords in your Pinterest profile. She shares the importance of creating niche boards and finding those right keywords. Kayla explains the advantages of using Pinterest as a long-term traffic source and recommends repurposing old blog posts with it. We even discussed using a scheduler, such as Tailwind, and how that can help you when using Pinterest! Tune in to hear more about Pinterest and how it can benefit your blog!Thanks for listening! Connect with us on Instagram: @sparkmediaconceptsCheck out Tailwind, the Pinterest scheduling tool we recommend.Check out the show notes (link below) for more information including links and resources mentioned in today's episode!SHOW NOTES: www.sparkmediaconcepts.com/episode92

Welcome to the Ultimate Blog Podcast with Amy Reinecke and Jennifer Draper. We're on a mission to empower women who want to start or grow their own blog. This podcast is for women who want to learn blogging basics and who crave inspiration and encouragement. Whether you're just getting started or have been a blogger for years, we're excited to welcome you into this space where we are passionate about creating community over competition. We are bloggers who want to encourage you to believe in your potential, step outside the norm and step into a life where you create your own schedule, your own success and your own story. Join us for weekly episodes as we navigate blogging

and work from home life all while raising a family and having some serious fun along the way. all while raising a family and having some serious fun along the way. Hey, welcome back to the Ultimate Blog Podcast. Today, we are really excited to talk about a topic that always gets a lot of downloads. And I'm sure that that's why you clicked play today is because you're a blogger who is wanting to know how you can market on Pinterest. And for the purpose of today, we are interviewing Kayla Watkins, who is a Pinterest marketing agency. And she helps bloggers get more website traffic and make more money by strategically repurposing their content on Pinterest. We are so excited to talk all Pinterest basics today with you, Kayla. So welcome to the podcast. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here. Yeah.

So Pinterest is a hot topic and it's ever-changing. And we kind of feel like we're on a little bit of a roller coaster with it. Fair. I do too sometimes. And a long time ago, Jennifer and I actually used to do Pinterest management for people. And it got to a point that we were like, management for people. And it got to a point that we were like, this particular platform is changing so often that we no longer felt like an expert in that field. We felt like we knew what to do for a long time. But then it's come to this point that we really do get a lot of our resources from

other people who their primary focus is on Pinterest. And so that was really the reason that we wanted to bring you on today on Instagram or Pinterest for bloggers. And so that was really the reason that we wanted to bring you on today on Instagram or Pinterest for bloggers. And that's perfect because that's our target audience. And they're always asking questions about Pinterest, especially the people in our membership and our course are always wanting to know more. So before we dive into all things like Pinterest basics, I would love for you to just share a little bit about yourself with our listeners. Sure. So I actually used to be a blogger myself. I used to be a wedding blogger and a lifestyle blogger. I don't even know what year I started, but probably like 2013. And I was blogging kind of on the side. I also was a social media manager

for a company. And that was sort of my side project. And I did that in New York for a few years. And when I was there, I happened to meet a bunch of other bloggers that were doing the same thing I was. And we were always chatting and they were always mind blown by the amount of traffic I was getting from Pinterest. They were super focused on Instagram and I didn't have the Instagram followers, but they didn't have the blog traffic that I had. And I was monetizing that in ways that they weren't able to and getting bigger brand deals just because I had the traffic that was able to do that. And so I ended up moving from New York back home to Florida in 2018. And I was decided, okay, this is it. I'm not working for anyone else. I'm going to try to figure it out. And I sort of stumbled into Pinterest because all of my friends were like, okay, I see you

have free time. Please can you run my Pinterest account? So I started in 2018 doing only Pinterest and I've been going ever since. Started with those friends and word of mouth and I've kind of grown from there. And now we have a little agency. We work mostly with bloggers. I've worked with all sorts of businesses over the years, but I've kind of niched down because I prefer it and it's where I started. And I feel like I understand the blogging business just from being in it a little bit and from working with so many clients in that industry. So it's my favorite niche and client to work with too. So yeah, it's been fun. And Pinterest is such a great platform for bloggers. So I think that it's such a helpful niche that you have to be able to really focus on specifically how bloggers can utilize Pinterest,

because there's a lot of different ways you can use it to benefit a blogging business. And you also mentioned how you were doing well on Pinterest, your friends were doing well on Instagram. Can we just talk a little bit about those two platforms? And I think specifically related to bloggers and how they might use each of those platforms. Sure. So I always say that, and I think this is a common phrase, but I don't think we kind of understand it enough, is that Instagram is a social media platform. Pinterest is a search engine. Pinterest is more like Google than it is like Instagram and TikTok. So Instagram is all about nurturing your current audience, staying connected, really having them fall in love, not in love, but you know, really learn to like and know and trust

you as a person, as an influencer, as the owner of the business or the brand itself. Pinterest is all about having them find your content and find value in your content. And then they come into your world and learn to know, like trust you. So Pinterest, they enter through your content, Instagram, know, trust you. So Pinterest, they enter through your content. Instagram, they enter through you as a person and get connected into your world. So it's a really... I think they go hand in hand. You have to have Instagram.

And I think Pinterest is a great way to repurpose Instagram content, blog content, and just target a different audience than you can on Instagram. I think that you brought up something very important there in explaining the difference of why each platform is important. And I think a lot of times we want to treat all platforms the same. And we go into each platform thinking, the goal is more people, more people, more people. But really, it's honing in on that target audience and asking yourself, how am I adding value to this particular person?

And the person who follows you on Pinterest might be different than the person who follows you on Instagram. That person on Instagram, like you said, is really wanting to know you. The person on Pinterest just wants a solution to the problem that they're having, essentially. Exactly. And so I think knowing that can also help you when you go to create content for that platform to know how you can best serve your people. And also, I will say, if Instagram doesn't bring you joy... We already said we're not going to bash on Instagram today. But if Instagram doesn't bring you joy, it's okay to see. If you're not doing anything on Pinterest right now,

it's worth going and figuring out. Would I find more joy and more traffic coming from this other source? I think we're in a day and age that I actually don't think you have to be on necessarily social media if you are doing Pinterest and SEO. I'm not saying it's going to hurt you to be on social media. But I'm just saying I don't think that has to be your primary focus anymore. The way that we might have felt like that back in 2015, 2016, things like that as Instagram was really hopping. It's just really hard to grow on that, which is why Pinterest has always been this steady source. And I know it's had its ebbs and flows and things like that. But when you learn to really optimize your profile and optimize your content,

and know that it's a long game, I think that people can see the benefit. I think that's so true. And I think also Instagram, we have to remember, is borrowed land. We don't own Instagram. It could be hacked. It could be deleted. Whereas your website, your traffic there, email subscribers that you collect, I know you guys say this all the time, but that is what matters and what you have control over. So because Pinterest sends people off of their site into your world, that's the benefit to me too of Pinterest or Instagram. It's very unlikely. And I see the analytics of a lot of bloggers. It's very low click-through from Instagram to

your website. It's very high click-through from Pinterest to your website. So that's the other difference there. They stay on Instagram and scroll forever because that's how the app intends you to use it. And Pinterest, they intend you to click through and get the content that you need. And so it sends them to your world and you can convert them in many ways there. Let's talk about those people that are using these platforms. You've got your people on Instagram and you've got your people using Pinterest. Let's talk about why they're using Pinterest. What are they wanting to get? And how does that help us as bloggers think about how we should treat that platform? Sure. So Pinterest users, there's like 463 million active users. I love the sort of audience on Pinterest. If you are in the food, travel, beauty, fashion,

all of those sorts of spaces, because it's less saturated than Instagram. And those people are so specific. So they're like, they're usually the ones that are shopping for their family. There's a lot of moms. I think it's like half moms. There's also a lot of Gen Z up and coming.

And then there are people that it's a majority women too. So it depends on who your target audience is. But if that's your audience, that's where they're at. And so that's really where you can reach them. What they're doing is they're using the search bar, just like all of us use a Google search bar. And they're looking for a specific piece of content. They're looking to plan.

They plan way ahead of time for holidays, for parties, for their next meal. They are looking to be inspired. So see an outfit that they want to recreate at home or purchase themselves. They're looking to purchase. So they are just a spending audience. And that's what they're known for and why they go on the platform is to find new things to buy. And then they're also looking to learn or get information that way. So they're really looking for a specific piece of content. And being able to show up where they're looking is really the benefit of being active and having

a strategy on Pinterest. So that's a great segue into how do people then find you? So let's just use an example of a lifestyle blogger. For the example, I'm going to let you use your own examples and keywords and things like that. But let's say they are on Pinterest. keywords and things like that. But let's say they are on Pinterest. How can they set their profile up in a way that is going to meet... It's going to match the people that are putting in their search terms in the Pinterest search bar? How can they optimize their profile essentially in order to make that match happen? Sure. So okay, I'm going to use the example of a self-care blogger. Does that work for under the lifestyle influencer? So this is going to be someone that's writing content about how to create like a self-care routine, talking about skincare, wellness, all the things. So the profile really

just needs to be set up to tell the platform who you are, who you serve, what content you create. It's not there to really connect with the users necessarily. It's very rare that the user will go from the main feed where they search something to a profile. So that profile needs to be something that serves the algorithm and the search engine to tell them, okay, this is the content that you can find from this creator and from this website. And here's where I should show up in searches. So that's why every single place on your profile needs to have keywords. Pinterest can read the keywords. It can say, okay, so she says even in her profile name, right? Instead of just having your blog name, you want to have your blog name, and then you want to have some

descriptive keywords. So for this person, it would be blog name, self-care tips. That's telling Pinterest right away. You can expect a lot of self-care tips whenever this person publishes their own pins. So there's keywords there in your title. You have a a lot of self-care tips whenever this person publishes their own pins. So there's keywords there in your title. You have a bio. There's keywords there. And you really want to list for Pinterest. Here's the content you can find and expect from this creator. And here's where I should show up when people are searching for these keywords. So that should really match what you plan to share and pin yourself to your profile. You want to really match those up and be really specific then

about the type of content you're going to share. So what does that do? Does that help Pinterest just understand better what you're sharing so that they can match what users are searching for? Exactly. Yeah. It's just really understanding you as a creator and what they can expect. And

then every piece of content that sort of falls under it, it will still fall under the self-care umbrella. So then it'll add self-care to like, like a skincare routine. So you're going to show up and someone that's looking for like a self-care skincare routine. So it just helps just hone in on your niche. And the more that you can niche... And a lifestyle blogger is always hard because they share more content than is easy to wrap up in a couple words. So sometimes my clients will end up being lifestyle blogger because there's just no way to wrap up in two phrases. But you can do that in the boards underneath it and wrap up a little bit more niche down to the categories. I think a common mistake is that we have really crowded profiles that are our own personal interests as well as what we're creating content on. And really the thing to do

is use your business profile for your business and what you're actually creating content on and hone in on that and make it as tight as possible for the algorithm to really understand. Yeah, I think that's great. Great advice that you have there. So after they get their profile kind of niched down and have those keywords set, telling the algorithm who they are and what they're about, boards, I would guess are next. So what is your recommendation with boards for how someone can set themselves up for success in regards to Pinterest boards? Sure. So if you are starting from scratch, I would start with 10 boards just to really get a good idea of the kind of content you're creating.

If you are not starting from scratch, don't worry. It doesn't have to be like toned down to 10. I would just look at your boards and say, OK, does this one fit the kind of content I'm currently creating or not? If it doesn't, see if you can merge it with a board that makes sense that you're going to keep or you can make it secret. That's not going to harm your profile. It's just going to be secret. So like I'm a Pinterest marketer and on my Pinterest account, I can't have recipe boards, but I'm going to hide that because I do use that personally all the

time. So that'll be a secret board that I can always access and use, but it's not going to show up on my profile. So I would do 10 boards and then all the names of the boards again, need to be keywords. So I think another common mistake is that people will kind of name them cutesy things like best day ever for a wedding board. And you just want to be straight up wedding inspiration. Or if you have an ad ship that you can boho wedding inspiration, that's what you want to really pare down and understand about your boards. We've talked about keywords that need to be in these titles and in our profiles. And I know we might have an idea as a blogger, like, here's what I blog about.

So are these my keywords? Is there a way to really know that you're getting the right keywords so that Pinterest will understand what you're trying to say? Sure. There are a few different methods. I think the easiest way, and I always recommend bloggers start at, is one, start from your menu. What does your menu say that you're writing about and see, write all of those down and then underneath it, see if there are deeper keywords that you could

use. So let's say your menu says like skincare, maybe, you know, you do like clean beauty products or non-toxic or that type of thing. Then you kind of write your own keywords under there. So start from sort of brainstorming yourself. Here's what I create content about. Here's some adjectives I would use to describe myself. And here are like all of those different categories of your lifestyle blogger. There'll be a few different ones that you would have to go under. And then you want to take that board or that spreadsheet and you want to go to Pinterest search bar and just start typing things in. So if we say skincare is our thing, I'm going to type in skincare. It's going to pop up just like Google where there'll be,

there'll be terms underneath it that people are frequently searching. So it might say skincare routine, skincare, step-by-step skincare. Those will be some of the keywords that pop up underneath it. And those you take copy paste right onto your spreadsheet. I serve my clients with a giant dump. So I'm going through all of those keywords. I'm making giant columns with all the keywords. And I'm narrowing down from there. So then I'm highlighting, okay, this one actually applies. This one doesn't make sense. This is like skincare for over 60. That doesn't make sense for my client. Erase that one. And then I add in new ones as we go. So it's really about looking at the search bar to see how people are phrasing things, writing those all down and iterating from there.

To kind of back it up a little bit, something I want to point out here is that this is why it's important to know who you're talking to and what you're talking about. It's because it's not just for the Google algorithm or the people who are already on your blog, but it's also to set yourself up for success on Pinterest as well. Because if you don't know who you're talking to, or if you're like, well, I just want to write about everything. And I totally get that sentiment. I used to be there myself. And we have so many people who feel the same way. But it really does benefit you to sit down and make a list of some content buckets. With that said, I also want to say it's okay if that shifts and changes a little bit over time. I think that that's pretty common, actually. As you blog longer, you're likely going to be like,

you know what, I actually am not going to write as much content about XYZ, but I'm going to write more about ABC. And so knowing that your content might shift and change, but knowing that it is important to have those buckets and those pillars. That way you can set yourself up for success in a lot of different ways, including the Pinterest platform. Yeah. And I think you'll... As you can hear me talking, you don't hear anything about day in the life of blog. That's not the content that's going to go on Pinterest because it's not searchable. Because they don't know you, they are really looking for your content. So I think that's something else that works on Instagram, that works on TikTok, that does not work on Pinterest, just because that's

just not how people search. They're looking for things that can help them, not trying to connect with another person. And that might even be something as a way to... That particular example that you just used, something that that might be is also a way to connect with your email subscribers. What's a day in the life look like? That's a great way to give your email subscribers a bird's eye view about what's actually going on behind the scenes. It doesn't mean that you can't do some of that content. You just need to know... I want to use the word appropriate, where it's appropriate and where it's not and where you're going to get the most bang for your buck by using it.

So it's not to say that you can't personalize your content in a way, but it's knowing where to personalize it. And Pinterest isn't necessarily that place. Yep, exactly. Yeah. So I think what we've talked about is really thinking about how you're using content on different platforms. So the content you create may be a little bit different on each platform. content on different platforms. So the content you create may be a little bit different on each platform. But one of our goals is always to work a little less rather than always recreating the

wheel, always trying to please everyone. So can we talk about are there ways where you could maybe create content for Instagram and use it on Pinterest or vice versa, or creating blog content that you're using on Pinterest? How can you really kind of bring this all together to see how you can reutilize things cross-platform to really be the most effective and serve the people that are on those platforms? Definitely. I mean, my whole sort of business motto is repurposing content from social media and blogs to Pinterest. I don't believe in recreating the wheel on Pinterest for many reasons. One that I find that if your business model is more about sponsored brand deals, you're going to get more on Instagram and TikTok than you are on Pinterest.

So instead of creating content for a platform where you can't get paid to create content, you might as well keep that over there, repurpose that content onto Pinterest. So you can use it different ways. So I reuse all Instagram reels, all Instagram photos that fit if they do day in the life or vlogs, obviously I'll keep that off just because it's not searchable on Pinterest. But if they're going to do on Instagram and they're going to do a reel of their outfit changes, right, they're going to do how to wear wide leg jeans. Let's say that's totally able to be repurposed on Pinterest. There are video pins on Pinterest that do well as well. And they have a click, a link to click through. So again, unlike Instagram,

where you can't click through the reel to get to their, like to know it on Pinterest, you can click through the video and get right to their, like to know it and purchase the products. So I like to reuse all content and blog content. I prefer, and I like to do at least like 80% blog content whenever possible, Because if it's linking to your blog, there are so many ways you can use that traffic, whether you want to convert them to email subscribers, whether you want to sell affiliate links there for the outfit, let's say, whether you want to monetize the traffic with ad revenue, all of that is so possible from your blog, whereas Instagram, they only decide whether they want to follow you or not. So I like to use 80-20 blog content to social media or affiliate platforms. So sometimes I'll

post a like to know it link as well. That's really kind of like a combination strategy there. Totally. Yeah. And sometimes a lot of it for clients is I see what works, right? So most of my clients, what performs best is if I link to their blog posts, because again, they're looking for the information and they're looking for how to wear wide leg jeans. So then they click through. And then once they see how to wear them, they're trying to buy your wide leg jeans that you have and you're styling and showing them how to wear. So I see that perform better than I see just the affiliate link itself. And I see a lot more saves on just like the outfit photo than I do on like a graphic with text overlay

because then they have to click through for more. Whereas the photo, they might just save and be like, okay, I'm going to wear this one day with my closet items and I'm going to recreate it. Neither are bad things to get. Saves is like Pinterest's number one metric that they prioritize. So that'll help your profile no matter what. So, but a mix gets you the best as far as traffic and Pinterest profile growth. I think what I really like about those pins is that

they're just going to live on and on and on versus like, if you're going to post that in your Instagram story, or you post a reel, it'll be out there for a couple days. And then it's kind of like it typically dies down. It might have like one more little run a few days later, but then nobody really sees it anymore. But versus Pinterest, you could have a pin that you pinned years ago that's still bringing in lots and lots of traffic. So it seems like that's the way to go in so many ways, especially if you've monetized that traffic onto your blog in whatever way, because you're not even having to work as hard for that because you've already created the content and it's just continuing to grow. Totally. Yeah. There's nowhere else you can get that sort of evergreen traffic and evergreen monetization. I think

almost all of my clients and me, even my wedding blog, let's say, I still get traffic to my wedding blog from Pinterest and I still get affiliate sales to the wedding blog I haven't touched in six years, right? Because I have some pins that do really well and just consistently get traffic to the site that I haven't touched, which is nice and so helpful. And I think a lot of people think, okay, I'm getting all this traffic to old blog posts on Pinterest. I think this happens to everyone. So this is very common if this is you. Your old blog posts are getting the most traffic. Old Pinterest just sent the most traffic so fast and they live on forever. So it's just going to happen to everyone.

But there's lots of things you can do with that traffic because it is to your site. So you can repurpose the blog post, you can update and refresh the blog post, or you can direct them to your current content that's sort of relevant. So if you have your content going to an old post about how to wear a white tee,

you might have updated that content or you might have a new blog post that you want to send them to where it's your new style of photography, your new style in general. And you just add that to the blog post. Hey, see my new updated blog post here. And now they're on your site longer, they're switching pages, they're doing all the things that really benefits you as a long term business and brand. So that's really the beauty. There's a lot of ways to refresh that old blog post. So don't give up hope if you're like, okay, it's only sending me traffic to my old content because that's just the way it goes, I think.

Our current new content is someday going to become old content. Like at some point. So I think realizing that, yes, you're going to put a pin out and you might get 12 people. I mean, I'm talking personally. Like I might get 12 people on a new pin that comes in and you're like, well, was that even worth it? But in time, what you realize is you get juice because the beauty of Pinterest is it's not all reliant on what you are doing. You just mentioned saves

are one of the biggest metrics on Pinterest for the algorithm. So I think the thing is, knowing that when you're putting these pins out today, knowing that it's just going to take time, it's a long game there. So what encouragement do you have for someone who is putting Pinterest content out right now, and they're just not seeing the traffic yet from Pinterest? And I guess my real question there would be, how long does someone put content on Pinterest before they make the decision like Pinterest isn't actually going to be a driver to my blog? Is this actually a valid use of my time or not? How long do you suggest that somebody really, really be consistent in that? I usually say 3 to 6 months. My contracts are 6 months because I do not think that you can

evaluate mid-contract until you've gone through six months and seen how it picks up and how well it does. I think they can take even like seasonal content, for example, like if you're posting about Halloween, Halloween content that you post this year might not do anything, but Halloween content that you shared last year and are repurposing this year might take off because you're able to do it when those Pinterest planners, you can publish it when those Pinterest planners are looking, which is about 45 days in advance of the holiday. So that's a lot earlier than you're probably creating Halloween content for this year. But you've got plenty in your blog repertoire that you can pull out and use in the timeline

that Pinterest users really need, which is another part about Pinterest that you can't do anywhere else, right? You're not going to reshare on Instagram too much from your last year's post. You're always having to create fresh content for those social media platforms. Pinterest, you can still pull up old content and people will find it from searching for your content and it already being on the platform as well. So it can really take, I would say, yeah, three to six months, but I always would look at it at the end of the six months and say, okay, am I seeing any improvement in traffic? Am I seeing that I'm getting more traffic than I am

from other platforms? And is traffic something that I can monetize and that I can use correctly? That's another thing I think people don't do is they'll get the traffic, but they don't know how to use it. So make sure that you're collecting emails, make sure that you're... If you want to do the ad revenue route, make sure that you're monetizing in some way for this time investment or financial investment in Pinterest to really be worth it. Because otherwise, you're just getting a bunch of people to your site and not converting them from there and then they never come back. I think there's one thing that also confuses people that are new because that's what we're talking about is like, how much do I want to invest in this? How much time do I want to spend pinning?

And there's another piece of this. And that is like, if you have some users, if you've got people coming from Google, or you do have some people coming from social media, or you do have some people on your email list, you got to utilize those people and get them to pin your content as well. So I think one mistake that some new bloggers make is maybe they just go onto Pinterest, they upload an image, and they add their URL and they pin it. But what they're not doing is giving their users an opportunity to pin. So do you have any advice or things that you suggest for those people to help them utilize what they've got?

And that's basically like doing less work because you're getting your readers to do the work for you. Sure. I think one of the things, and it's most people have it by now, but some people totally forget it, is really we just have to do the call to action that says like pin this for later

is the kind of the phrase that I like. Because I think when people get to our blog posts and they see it sometimes, they just want to like, okay, wait, there's a lot of information. I'm into this information, but I can't read it all right now. So I think saying pin this for later is really helpful and making sure that you have, I'm not even sure what the plugin is called, but making sure you have the plugin that has that little pin it button that you can just pin directly from your blog when users come to your blog to Pinterest. And I like that because I really think people utilize that. I use that all the time when I look for recipes. I'm like, okay, this is what I want. But like, I'm in the car, in the car line

with my kids right now. I'm going to just save this for later so I can look at it for dinner tonight. So I just think reminding people to do that is really helpful that that's a way that they can sort of bookmark content and keep it in their world until they're ready to read it. So I think that's a very good way to use it. You can always cross promote on stories or say like, okay, look at this like pin I created. I think it's harder on Pinterest because you're using content that you already shared to that platform. But I do think people like to see boards. Like I think people are interested in like this inspiration board you made for your kid's first birthday. Sharing that on your social media is fun. Like follow me for more, you know, inspiration, party inspiration, that type of deal.

I think that's a great way to share on both newsletters and social media. And then making sure you have those, you know, buttons and links on everywhere on your blog, on your Instagram, on your Instagram, like link page, all of those things. A lot of people just leave out Pinterest. So making sure that you have that as somewhere they can easily follow you or click through to get more content. Yeah, those are great tips. Yeah, I think that you have to make it very easy for people to pin your content. And I was just like, they're your little elves helping you out. They're doing your work for you. Totally. We all do it. If you're a user of Pinterest, and I think that that can be a hard one for people who

are bloggers who aren't Pinterest users, that learning curve can be kind of great. So I would suggest to anybody who maybe is blogging and is not currently a Pinterest user, I would just start out as a Pinterest user. See how you use the platform. See, get comfortable with it. And then I think you'll understand the method to the madness a little bit easier as you begin to pin your own content too. Yeah. And I think a lot of people, bloggers that I come across are like, I use it all the time personally, but I have no clue how to use it for your business. And you're right. Starting from that mentality of like, how do I use it personally is so helpful because it helps you understand that sometimes you just

save content. Sometimes you're just saving the outfits that you like. You're not clicking through. But when you see a graphic, oftentimes you have to click through because you can't get all the information you need just from a graphic. So that's another way to just make sure that you're getting the traffic that you want is to use those custom overlay graphics that you see a lot on Pinterest. Yeah. Tailwind is an amazing tool that allows you to schedule your blog posts directly to Pinterest ahead of time. We are all about batch working here at Spark Media Concepts. And when you can

schedule out your Pinterest, it can take that task from time consuming and productive with just a few clicks. We also use Tailwind to schedule our Instagram content, which we find to be much more productive than creating a post each which we find to be much more productive than creating a post each time we need to share. We really believe in working smarter, not harder, and utilizing Tailwind as a no-brainer for our business and also our independent blogging businesses. The cost of Tailwind each month is less than what takeout for one meal would be. And it has the capability to save you hours of time. If you want to learn more about adding this time-saving tool to your blogging business, click the link in our show

notes to learn more about Tailwind. I think one question that we do get from our newer bloggers is like, how do I grow my following on Pinterest? And so, you know, I don't know that that is such an important metric anymore. And the other one that they always are looking at is, is it called views? So those two metrics, can you talk about those and how important are those numbers to pay attention to when it comes to Pinterest? Yes. I think any person that's a Pinterest strategist or works in the Pinterest marketing world hates those two numbers because they really don't do anything directly for your business. They're more vanity metrics than they are things that work on Pinterest. Because Pinterest, again,

is a search engine and not a community builder, followers is not as important. There are ways to monetize those two things if you're more in the sponsored brand deal world, but they're not necessary for success on Pinterest. Success on Pinterest, the two metrics that I would go for are outbound clicks, which is traffic to your site, and saves because that's what Pinterest prioritizes the most. And it means people are loving your content enough to save it and read it later. And like you said, that shares it with a whole different audience that's what pitchers prioritize the most. And it means people are loving your content enough to save it and read it later. And like you said, that shares it with a whole different audience that's really valuable to you. So that doesn't really correlate necessarily, like how many outbound clicks you have doesn't necessarily correlate to how many followers you have. Has nothing to do. I posted this carousel on Instagram about like how people have so few

followers and how many clicks they're getting. And it's really is a huge difference. And also, if you see how many clicks they're getting. And it really is a huge difference. And also if you see how many clicks they're getting with that size followers, so like they maybe have 5,000 followers and they're getting like on Pinterest and they're getting 10,000 outbound clicks a month or on Instagram, they have 80,000 followers and they're getting 1200 clicks to their site per month. There is a big difference. And that's when you're evaluating what to focus your time on. That's something that I always recommend looking at. And then monthly views is just anytime anything you have pinned doesn't have to be a pin from your website. Maybe anything you've pinned from other websites shows up for somebody, right? So it's like impressions, but it's not just your content. It's bigger than that. So it's really not valuable because it could

mean any content that anyone else has created that's So it's really not valuable because it could mean any content that anyone else has created that's getting a lot of monthly views or little monthly views. So it's just not a good metric about how well you're doing on Pinterest if your goal is to drive traffic to your site. That is really helpful. I think to understand that because I think just being in the social media space, there's such a large focus on followers. So I can understand why so many people are concerned with why is my Pinterest following not growing faster. So that gives us, I guess, a breath of fresh air to be like, just don't worry about it. Make sure that people are actually clicking through. And that's really what the main focus needs to be on there.

In regards to scheduling and stuff, I know that we have a scheduling tool that we recommend. Do you have one that you recommend? Because many years ago, that's how Jennifer and I started working together. I was actually her Pinterest virtual assistant. And I thought that bloggers just live pinned all day. I just thought that that's what they did with their time. And so when she told me about a scheduling tool, I was like, wow, I had no idea that such a thing existed. So I'd love for you just to talk about that a little bit. So somebody who's listening to this knows like, oh, I don't just have to sit on Pinterest all day and pin my content.

Sure. I highly recommend Tailwind. It's a partner with Pinterest. You're not going to get penalized for using it. It's totally approved by Pinterest. And that... I like to use that because something that we didn't talk about is how frequently you need to post on Pinterest today. And so my sort of best practices would be five to 10. But if you are doing it yourself, that I would recommend if you

hired someone, if you're doing it yourself, and you spend a lot of time on other platforms, I would start at three a day if possible. Obviously, like every other platform, consistency is the most important. So if that's impossible, don't worry about it. Just do what's possible for you. But Tailwind allows you to pin these three pins per day, let's say, to multiple boards. It lets you do interval pinning. So you could have one image going to two boards. And it can tell you the space between, you can pick the space between that pin going to the first board and that pin going to the second board, which just lets you quickly schedule out content in a way that would feel so overwhelming if you had to manually do it or use the Pinterest scheduler, which you can totally use. There's a scheduler

in the platform, but it doesn't allow you to select multiple boards, select the days that it goes out. It's just a little bit wonkier. Tailwind also tells you the optimized days and times and when you should be pinning. So that again, eliminates something that you have to manually figure out and guess about. It's definitely my preferred schedule. I could not work without it. Totally agree. That's what I started with with Jennifer. We both use that and recommend that to our students as a scheduler. And honestly, for what it does for your business, it is not that expensive. It's less than a couple trips to Starbucks every single month if you really think about the work

that is saving you to where you're not having to get on Pinterest. I think that's the beautiful thing about it is you can easily schedule your pins for the week or the month even ahead of time. And it's done for you. I think finding ways to work smarter and not harder is really important. And this is just one of those ways that you can simplify it. I love that it has the optimized times and things like that too. So we will put a link in our show notes so you can check out Tailwind. I know with that, there is a learning curve as well a little bit with that. But just I think knowing that that 3 pens a day minimum is great to start with and then moving up to that five to 10. Just knowing that is something that's really helpful for a lot of people just to have. I think maybe it's just me, but I like having kind of like a guideline.

Like, okay, what's the ultimate goal? Like, what's my good, better, best kind of thing? And if you know that, then it's easier to say, okay, do I have time in my schedule to add that in to see how this could possibly impact my blog traffic? So thanks for sharing that because I know that that is a very, very, very common question that we get is, well, great, I'm on tailwind, but how often do I pin and how many pins and all of that. So super helpful. Okay, Kayla, you have just given so much knowledge today. I know that I should have warned people at the beginning of this episode to get a notebook. So

I'm telling you now you can go back and listen and get a notebook the second time around, except if you're driving. So Kayla, if they would like to connect with you and learn more from you, how can they do that? Sure. Our website is kaylawatkins.com. And then Instagram is Pinterest for bloggers. So very clear on the Instagram. So definitely follow me there. I try to post a lot of tips and advice. I also have a free guide to mastering Pinterest SEO, which you can also find on my website. It's backslash free dash guide, if that's helpful. And yeah, feel free to DM me to tell me that you listened to the episode and ask any questions. I obviously can talk about Pinterest forever,

so I'm happy to answer. Thanks for being so open about it. I think that's one of the things I love about some people in this space is being willing to share what you know about this platform to extend a hand and allow all of us to be successful with the tips that you have. So just thank you for sharing so open and honestly, it means a lot to us. And I know it will to everybody who listened today. No problem. Happy to share. No gatekeeping in Pinterest world. Thanks, Kayla. Thank you. Thanks so much for tuning in today. If you'd like to continue the conversation about blogging with us, please find us on Instagram at Spark Media media concepts. You can also sign up for our weekly newsletter where we share blogging tips and inspiration. You can sign up by finding the

link in the show notes. For those of you who are ready for the next step and want to start your own blog, join the waitlist for the ultimate blog bootcamp. The link to join the waitlist is also in the show notes. Go out and make today a great day.