The Unmade Podcast - 11: Quietest Room in the World

Episode Date: May 14, 2018

Today's ideas include the perfect podcast, Smith 360, final meals, childhood songs, and an idea from a patron. Try AUDIBLE and get a free book with your 30-day trial - go to https://www.audible.com/unmade or text UNMADE to 500-500 in the US. Support us on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/unmadeFM Join the discussion on our subreddit: https://redd.it/8jfbtn

I'm just going to wait two seconds because there is literally a plane flying over my house. Oh, no, it's not. It's a Chinook helicopter. Awesome. First idea. Can I go first, please? Hang on. Do you want me to do three claps?

Oh, yeah, go on. I like how you're really insistent on it, although you don't have to use it. And it has nothing to do with you, but you won't start until we've done it. It's my one little bit of responsibility to get it right and to do it. You go home and your wife says, like, how did it go? You went, yep, nailed the claps again. Nailed the claps. Everything else was rubbish.

Putting more effort into the claps than the ideas at the moment. My idea for a podcast is called Three Claps. Special guests from around the world all come on and do three claps and we analyse them and talk them through. That's not my idea. No, no. My idea, or my first idea today, is called The Perfect Podcast. Ooh.

Some people may be saying, I can hear them already saying, but Brady and Tim, you already make The Perfect Podcast. Indeed. That's probably true. But that's not really what the idea is. The idea is this is more like a technical thing. It's about this endless search to record the podcast like in a perfect location in a way that sounds perfect.

And in a kind of attempt to do that as a bit of a test, I have been out and about again with my microphone on location in California, and I thought I would play you something that I recorded, if that's okay with you. So hang on, just to be clear, this is not the perfect content. You're talking about the perfectly edited or the perfect sound on a podcast. Is that right? I think, yeah, more technical, technically perfect.

Have a listen to this and see what you think. Okay, all right. All right, Tim, I have come to Berkeley, California, and I'm at a place called Maya Sound, which I'll tell you a bit more about later on because it's an amazing place, and I've had a really amazing day already. They make all these world-class speakers and do all this sound research. And you would love it. You would love it more than me being a bit of a music and a sound buff. But now what's happened is I'm in a manufacturing area where they actually make all these speakers. They're going to be sent all around the world for all these really cool purposes.

And it's, you know, it's a reasonably noisy place. Hopefully you can hear some sounds and bits and pieces. But what they do is when they finish the speakers and they want to test them before they send them out, they put them in these anechoic chambers which are these rooms that have no echo it's like this sort of you know dead more perfect sound so they can check everything's how they want it to be and I'm going to go inside one of them and they're going to shut me in because I'm wondering what it would be like to record a podcast in one of these things so I am now about to step in into this room and i have to climb up onto this metal

area so hang on a second bear with me i won't break any of your stuff helen there's a few expensive microphones around me i'm holding a really rubbish microphone okay the guys are shutting me in see you later everyone all right now i am in an anechoic chamber and it's this room that's the size of like about a bathroom and it's got all these amazing like foam wedges everywhere all sorts of weird angles to catch all the echoes i hope it sounds different to you i hope you're hearing and noticing the difference i don't know when i'm just going to be quiet for a minute. I don't know. I don't know because I haven't listened back. I don't know what it sounds like,

but it is a really odd room to be in. It feels kind of uncomfortable. So I don't know if this is somewhere I'd like to stand for one or two hours and joke around and laugh and talk about stuff. But I do know some other people who make podcasts who are real like sound heads and spend thousands of dollars insulating their offices so they can have as little echo as possible. And they would absolutely wee their pants if they got to see this room, because this is like, this is full on. But if you think this is full on, I want to go to another room here at My Sound. It's over across the road in another building and this apparently apparently with quotation marks is the quietest room on planet earth so imagine what that must be like for recording a podcast i'm gonna open the door they haven't locked me in i've got a handle i can get out so i'm gonna open the door and we're going to go to the quietest room on planet earth how

exciting does that sound here we go let's go back the quietest room on planet Earth. How exciting does that sound? Here we go. Let's go back out. All right, guys, I'm back. OK, now I've come over into a building called Ceres, which is named after the largest asteroid in the asteroid belt, I believe. All the buildings here at Myosound are named after bodies in the solar system, planets and moons and things like that. So in this particular building, where a lot of research and development is done,

there is this amazing little booth here. It's called the isolation booth. It looks kind of like a little vault or even looks a bit like a prison cell, if I'm honest. It's one of the playgrounds of the genius behind Maya Sound, John Maya, and he's going to let me go inside. That's right, isn't it, John? Yes, right here.

You're going to let me in the isolation booth? right i'm going to go inside and i'll tell you what it's like thanks john now it's got two doors they're big thick heavy doors i'm going to go inside and i'll tell you what it's like so there's one door shut now i'm shutting the second door now i'm recording here on like my rubbish zoom microphone so i'm sure the effect is not going to come through in a podcast which is then going through layers of compression and going to people's phones for them to listen in their headphones but if you are standing where i'm standing this is amazing i'm just gonna i just going to record the silence for a moment. And this is so quiet, you can kind of hear that sound in your ears, which I guess is the blood in my ears. I can hear the blood in my ears, like it's really, really eerie and really,

really dead. This whole room is mounted on springs. If a huge truck went past, or I guess even if an earthquake happened, and we are in San Francisco, so an earthquake could happen, it won't get into this room. This room is isolated from the world. And it's got these amazing walls with this special materials, different layers of different materials to absorb all the sound. I'm told this room is 10 times quieter than it needs to be for a human to notice. So it could be 10 times louder in here and it would sound the same to me unless I was like a five or six year old kid maybe with better hearing. So that's, it's like, it's real overkill. So you might be thinking, well, what's a room like this going

to be used for? The main thing this is used for, as I alluded to before, is research and development. In addition to making all their whiz-bang speakers, Maya Sound are doing all sorts of different research into how hearing works, hearing aids, just principles of sound. That's the sort of stuff that John's really into. And this room's really useful for that. So if they're doing research into something like tinnitus was being mentioned before in a conversation I had and things like that, this is's really useful for that. So if they're doing research into something like tinnitus was being mentioned before in a conversation I had and things like that, this is a really good room for doing that. There is some debate about whether this is the quietest room

on the planet. John was telling me there are some other universities around that might say, oh, we reckon we've got a competitor. But John sounds pretty confident. He's pretty near the top. If not the quietest, it's pretty close. I mean, this is like, this is comparable to deep in a cave, like a perfect cave. It's probably quieter than a cave.

And I'm just going to be quiet again because it's really amazing. Oh, I don't like that. I don't like hearing the sound of my ears. Anyway, recording a podcast in here? I don't know. You can tell me. Does it sound any different? Again, I'm not recording this with amazing know. You can tell me. Does it sound any different? Again,

I'm not recording this with amazing equipment. This is just me recording it with a handheld Zoom. I don't know if you're noticing much of a difference. But now I'm going to go to one last place here at MySound. It's a very different kind of room where we can play funny games with the sound, which I think will sound interesting. So now we're going to go over there. I'm going to leave the booth, leave the isolation booth. I'm opening door number one. They're really heavy doors. Open door number two.

All right. Funnily enough, I'm coming out of that room, John, but this room here is really quiet as well, isn't it? So I'm coming from one quiet. What's this room called? This is our kind of our lab in here where actually we can bring people in and we can have them listen to music so we can then see how they hear. One of the cool things that we've discovered is that the whole idea that when we play flat loudspeakers, which has been a long time question, how do we hear it because of our head and all the interactions? It turns out that we actually hear it

in the A-B comparisons compared to a real instrument the same. So it means that we have a way of reproducing sound scientifically that's as accurate as listening to the live sound. So it means that we can record things live, restaurant sounds or different kinds of things coming here and then play it back and then study it more in isolation. So it gives us a chance to kind of study how people hear in complex situations. There are a lot of speakers in this room, so we can create very complex environments. John, would you recommend your isolation booth as a good place

to record a podcast? Like if I was doing a weekly podcast, do you think it would be good? I think it's so quiet in there that you might have to add some ambient noise. I've been in there for a while, but after a while you start hearing your blood and stuff and it's a little strange. So it's so quiet that you might want to add some ambient noise. Most booths that I grew up with,

what they called announcing booths, you could hear people from the outside. It was just quieter. It wasn't like nothing. I mean, you can shout through this window and you can't get anybody's attention you know so uh you're pretty isolated it's a strange feeling I can imagine it's a place where if you put someone in there and turn the lights off you could drive them crazy yeah we haven't tried that I don't spend more about 10 minutes in there we're testing these microphones from the 50s that were the first condenser microphone so we're looking at those. There were tube microphones. And they were very, very good. They probably cost like a small car,

you know. But FM was a big use of trying to do high quality sound. And so FM radio, they were doing live broadcasts and things. So we like to look at the kind of technology as it moves forward. Thank you for letting me in the booth. I'm glad you got a chance to visit it. All right, Tim, this is the final stop in my tour of awesome sound rooms here at Maya Sound. And this is a really, really cool room. I'm in something called the Pearson Theatre, which is kind of like, well, it's a theatre

that you can sit in. There's chairs here and people can sit and you could watch a movie. But really, it's about showcasing the sound system. And I really like this room. It's like, it's really cool designed and it's like a really lovely theatre. But the thing I like about it as well is it kind of looks also kind of industrial because they want to showcase the sound system.

They've got all these racks and metal work all over the place. And there's all these different lights and speakers and things hanging off them. So it's a really cool mixture between being a lovely theatre to come and sit in and like a really cool industrial techie place. But the thing is, this is no ordinary theatre. I'm sure you can guess they've set this place up with a few sound gimmicks and engineering and things that they want to show that they can do. And I'm going to try and let you hear a bit of that now.

So we're actually switching to a recording being done by the Meyer people with a much better microphone in the room. Because you see, you can change this theatre into different modes. What's happening is there's about 20 microphones. Well, I think there's exactly 20 microphones embedded all through the theatre. And they're picking up all the sound. And then the rest of the sound hopefully is just being absorbed by all the kind of insulation and sound absorby stuff. and then all the sound is going into some pretty high-tech computers and then coming back through the speakers and that means by changing into different modes you can change the echo and the reverberation of the room and things like that so i'm going to

show you a couple of different modes at the moment we're in off mode and this is sort of makes the room quite dead that's right isn't it John? John is actually in the room listening to me which is making me incredibly nervous because he's like this world expert on sound and he's listening to like an idiot talk about his amazing theatre. But we're on dead mode at the moment and I've actually got these two sticks in my hand so I'm going to bang them together so you can have a listen. Listen to this.

You can listen for how echoey it is. Like I could be outside, you know, there's nothing, it feels like nothing's really coming back. Let's go into speech mode. Alright, now hopefully there should be a little bit, I don't know, I don't know what's going to happen. Let's have a listen. Yeah, it sounds like I'm inside now. And now I'm going to go into this deluxe special mode called Sacred Space. And this is modelled and based on some measurements that were taken in a Saudi Arabian mosque, if I'm led to believe, which sounds very exotic. I'm just pressing a button on an iPad to make this happen. Now I'm in the mosque. Are you ready? I'm going to...

Whoa! There you go. Welcome to my mosque. Welcome to my sacred space. And now I'm going to, I'm going to, whoa, there you go. Welcome to my mosque. Welcome to my sacred space. And now I'm going to bang the sticks. Here we go. And just a reminder, I'm standing in the exact same place I was standing before. Now, I'm liking to think what it would be like to do a podcast like this. I would sound very grand and important if every week I came to you from this sacred space. Hello, welcome to the Unmade Podcast. It's a pleasure to have you all here. Maybe a little bit grandiose for our little effort, but there you go. And let me go back to

dead room just to show that difference. All right, the room's dead again. And i'm just a mere mortal once more okay so we're back in real time now well there you go tim what do you think of that yeah that's fascinating i'm you're right i am a bit more of a buff on um an audio buff and music buff on these things i'm not a huge techie in terms of equipment and those sorts of things. I just love music. I love hearing. You're not an audiophile. No, no, I'm not. No. So my podcast idea for fun is recording in, I don't know. I mean, basically I'm just having a podcast idea so I could show off this cool place I went to. I think a whole podcast just called the quietest room in the world would be brilliant. And you record every episode in that really, really quiet room. I like that as an abstract idea. Yeah. Yeah, I like that.

But my generic idea, I guess, will go for the perfect podcast. And so you could record it and you could travel the world looking for rooms and places like those ones that I went to at My Sound, or you could go to like, you know, opera houses or places that are famous for music or sound or like, you know, or churches and cathedrals and mosques and temples and things like that, or like natural places like caves or I guess you could go to some outdoor places like next to a babbling brook or something. But I like the idea of trying to find this perfect sound location, the endless search for perfect sound.

Or perfect absence of sound. I found that really interesting that different types of um not just the different sounds but the different levels of silence that were going on and there was the room that you said with like 10 times the amount of soundproofness that's required for the human ear so the noise outside could be yeah that's see that yeah that's fascinating real silence did it feel lonely did it feel eerie? Yes, to both of those. Wow. It is a strange room to be in.

It would be a unique torture to put someone in a room like that and deprive them of sound. Could you see people? Could you see through windows? Were you looking at the guy or was he with you? The first room I was in, no. The second room, which was the quietest in the world one, did have a window that you could see out into the next room from oh that's interesting so glass was strong enough to actually still not compromise

the room the thing that was more important to the soundproofing i think was that the room was like isolated like it was on suspension or something like that so the room itself was like floating on something that stopped vibrations getting into the room so because it because it's right next to a main road, this room, and like if a big truck goes past, you won't even know because the room's isolated from vibration. It's like on, I don't know, springs or rubber or something like that. Oh, that's fascinating. The sound of silence and different silence.

Do you like silence? I don't know. I'm not a big fan of like loud noise, like being in a really loud place. You know, I'm getting to that age now where it's like, oh, come on, let's go somewhere quieter where we can talk. But I don't know. I do like a bit of atmosphere. When you're working, do you have, well, you've said this once before,

you don't play background music because you're concentrating on audio visual stuff. So I can't have any other sound going on. What about when you're doing emails and stuff like that i could sometimes have music you know if i'm doing that i couldn't have a podcast i could have sometimes i'll have music or if i'm doing something really repetitive and menial like in photoshop or with editing that doesn't have any sound i might put music on but i can't have talking what about when you're just sitting and reading or if you're in the house, are you ever in the house and it's perfectly quiet and you're just, you're there and it's perfectly quiet? Unless I'm trying to sleep, I'd probably put the TV or a podcast or music on. You must always have music on. I often have music on, yeah. But I've come to appreciate

quiet. Even when I drive sometimes, I'm like, oh, just quiet and just drive because it's nice and quiet. Generally because it's a change, you know, from work noise or at home well you've got kids yeah that's that's another factor too but it's fascinating the different types of silence because even then it's not really silence is it's the hum of the car driving along and it's the ambient noise around you and well that was the thing john meyer said was that it would be inappropriate for a podcast to be in such a quiet place even like recording booths and sound and that need a bit of ambient noise you just the human ear expects this kind of almost imperceptible ambient noise and being somewhere totally silent can cause problems i'm a really big fan of these ambient records um albums by brian eno like this and i need to be really clear he's like the godfather

of ambient music but i need to be very very. He's like the godfather of ambient music, but I need to be very, very clear. There are two different categories of ambient music, right? There's the rainforest dolphin whale noises kind of one, you know, the soundtrack that's playing in a, you know, like a relaxation centre or something like that, right? You've got to be careful of those rainforest dolphins. That's right. Well, they record their albums.

Dolphins record their albums in rainforests. But Brian Eno is a very famous producer, but he makes these more, they're urban ambient records. So his very famous one is ambient one, Music for Airports. Yes. Fantastic. It's really, really beautiful music it's just a repetitive sort of well i guess it's sort of strings but it's synthesizer strings in a particular sort of 70s you know mono kind of way and he designed it especially be played in a place like an airport where announcements need to be

heard over the top but you don't want it to be dead quiet and i've never heard an airport that actually played it apart from you know i'm sure at the time someone did it for the performance aspect of it but i love that idea because i love big open spaces like art galleries or an airport or something and the idea of something you know as creative as that playing is really enticing but they don't do it but yeah anyway i saw i love his albums that go along that vein he's got another one called thursday afternoon which is just one long piece, which is really beautiful as well. But there are no mammals involved, which is an important consideration.

But it's kind of, it is quiet. Like there's, it's an absence of something, you know. Do you have like a red hot sound system at home, like really good speakers and all that sort of stuff? Do you invest in good sound equipment? Oh, it's funny you say that. I i'm actually look i the short answer is no i'm actually looking at that because we're putting in like a wall unit and and so i'm getting a like a record player again which i haven't had for a while and i'm looking at that and talking to my

friend about the best brand of record player to get for lps and and i'll get a decent amp and stuff to go with it so i'm actually been thinking about at the moment but the shorter answer is no no i don't i remember when i used to live with my old housemate in adelaide who you remember and he he bought this like amazing surround sound system for the house that we were sharing and that was when like speaker technology was like really really big and i'll never forget the day it got delivered i think i was like still in bed and i heard a knock on the door and the delivery man was delivering all this stuff. And then my housemate called me out and said, Brady, come and have a look at this. And I went out and like the whole lounge room was full of

the most massive cardboard boxes you've ever seen. It was like this, almost the entire room was consumed with cardboard boxes with all of these speakers that we were going to have to unpack and set up. I swear I've never been so excited. It was like Christmas. We were like a couple of school kids, and we spent all day setting up all the cables and the speakers, and then we put the two sitting chairs in the room ready to run it. Do you remember that system at that house? I do, I do, yep. Yeah, I do.

It was so big. It was as big as the room. It was crazy. Big black, yeah. It was the cliche young guys with too much disposable income and nothing to spend it on because they're young and don't do anything except eat McDonald's. So he spent it all on speakers. The irony is you were playing like VHS editions of Star Wars. We were mainly playing Nintendo games on it.

How disappointed would you have been if he'd called you into the lounge room and there were all these boxes there and he opens the first one and it's a microwave and the next one's a fridge and it's just all white goods for the home i would have been pretty surprised he's like we're settling in growing up you'd be like no he's nesting he's nesting nesting with his house mate well i was thinking my mum my mum bought around a little while ago a cassette player that she's got at home if i had to bet a million dollars on someone i know having a cassette player i think your mum would be my bet i know well mum said she said to me um do you want a cassette player i've got it and i imagined in my mind the one that was really retro. And I said, oh yeah, mum, that'd be cool. I'd love to have it. Just, I've got tapes that

I never play, but more just because it's cool to have a cassette player and I don't know, put it on the shelf or something. And mum came around with a different one and I said, no, no, no, this is not it. And she goes, oh, you mean the other one? And I'm like, mum, you've got two cassette players at home. She's right up with it, mum. So no Bluetooth, but two cassette players. Two cassette players. Well, you never know.

It's redundancy. All right. I think it's time for an idea from you. This episode of the Unmade Podcast has been sponsored by Audible, the leading provider of premium digital spoken audio information and entertainment on the internet. I am a big fan of audiobooks. If you have not got Audible on your phone at the moment, you really should. You have to check them out.

If you're listening to podcasts, you're clearly someone who's going to enjoy audiobooks. Very shortly, Tim, you are going to recommend a book, aren't you? I am, I am. But before we have the excitement of Tim's recommendation, Audible are also encouraging you to enhance your summer activities with audiobooks. They say, audiobooks are a great sidekick for summer activities like hiking, sunbathing on the beach, running, road tripping, enjoying downtime outdoors, and more. I think this is a very Northern Hemisphere skewed promotion, Tim.

I'm sorry. Yeah. It is not the summertime for you. You are not about to enter the summer and enjoy audiobooks. But audiobooks are also good for the winter. This isn't the official line, but audiobooks are also good for the winter. So you can enjoy them too, Tim. Well, I can.

In the car, especially. Well, yes. On a rainy Adelaide day, you can just go and sit in your car and put an audio book out in the driveway. That's right. This is true. No, well, we talked about a few weeks ago about traffic and there's traffic and then in hot weather and then there's traffic in drizzly weather and you sit there. But an audio book is the kind of thing that go, oh, traffic, this is good. I'm going to hear this through to the end.

This is nice. Exactly. Because sometimes you're scared of arriving home at a good time in your book. So you delay your arrival home so that you don't have to miss the end of the chapter. But traffic takes that problem away. That's right. That's right. Yes. It sometimes pushes it over into the next chapter, though. You sit around the corner from your home for 24 hours listening to the end of a book. Your wife's like, where have you been?

What have you been doing, Tim? Where have you been? I was listening to an audio book around the corner. The wonderful thing about books is it's like, where haven't I been? Well, I've been dashing through the streets of Shanghai. I've been flying over the Sahara. Where haven't I been? I'm sorry for that audible. That audible did not write that line. No. I've been flying over the Sahara Where haven't I been?

I'm sorry for that Audible That Audible did not write that line No That is Tim freestyling Look, if you would like to start a 30-day Audible trial You will get your first book for free Go to audible.com Slash unmade Or if you're in America

You can text the word unmade On your cell phone. See what I did there? Cell phone. Yeah. You can text the word unmade to the number 500 500. We will give you those URLs again in a moment. But now is the moment you've all been waiting for.

Tim's audiobook recommendation. Wow. Take it away. I'm excited because I'm really confident in what I'm recommending because I've become a little bit addicted to this particular author, Andrew Marr. Well, Andrew Marr, he's very well known in Britain. I know that he's a journalist on television, but probably not so well known in the US and people in Australia or other places like Canada may have seen a bit of him if they've had documentaries re-screened. He's a journalist, worked in print, now is a fantastic presenter. The great thing about him is he comes at history and writes books about history,

and he does it with the concise pith of a journalist. That is, he summarises, he's able to grasp it, and he presents it in a really interesting way. So he's got a few books and the one i've just finished is called a history of modern britain i actually saw this as a book in a bookstore and i thought gee that looks interesting and the thought actually hit me you know what that would be great to listen to on audible so i downloaded it and i listened to it and i loved it it's really fascinating like if i read history you can read it from an academic point of view. So you're wanting every last detail, but often there's a lot

of places through history. And there's another one, like there's another one here called a history of the world. I've listened to a little bit of this one and it really, he takes you somewhere surprising and places you don't know about. That must be pretty long, the history of the world. Like how does he do the history of the whole world? Well, he doesn't do it in real time. Thank God. Okay. There's a really, he doesn't do it in real time. Okay. There's a really long, boring start. That's right. Yeah, he covers from the Big Bang onwards.

It takes a while to get through, but once you really get into it. Day 374 million. Yep, more dinosaurs. That's right, that's right. Well, he does it through different cultures around the world. So, he takes you back to ancient Greece and he takes you to different parts of the world. So, you're saying almost anything by Andrew Marr, but your particular recommendation for people who like keeping lists and things is this modern history of Britain one, yeah? The history of modern Britain, yeah. But if people don't have a particular interest in

the history of modern Britain, they might go to the history of the world. Okay, well, check them out. It doesn't matter what you're into. If you're doing the trial and getting your free book, you could follow Tim's recommendation. You could go into any other genre you want, business, classics, romance, history, thrillers, you name it, Audible will have it, and you'll be doing Tim and I a favour if you do do this

and you use our URL because then at the end of the month when Audible open the books and they find out, well, open the audio books, I guess they would Audible, to find out who's been doing them well. If they find out that you used audible.com slash unmade or you texted unmade to the SMS code 500500 in the US. But it's audible.com slash unmade. You SMS code 500500 in the US, but it's audible.com slash unmade. You'll be doing us a solid. Audible will think we're great, and maybe they'll support us again and help us keep on making the Unmade podcast. That's a contradiction too.

Keep on making the Unmade podcast and Audible opening the book. So I'm really struggling at the moment. I'm sorry. Yeah. Those are the kinds of contradictions Andrew Ma doesn't make. No, he's good doesn't make no he's

good he knows what he's doing all right all right listen my idea is is called smith 360 all right right the smith is is a the generic name you know the john smith kind of smith name so it's about a person but the 360 is based on 360 reviews that are often done in a workplace of someone okay so you do a review of someone you talk to people you know above them below them around them and all the rest of it to get an idea of their performance is that what the 360 means i've never understood the idea of a 360 job interview or performance review because i always thought like does that mean you've turned around and you're just doing what you were doing to start with? But that's what it means. You're reviewing their performance from every possible angle.

That's right. Yeah. So, you're talking to their manager and then you're talking to the people they manage and then you're talking to their colleagues on the same level. And then you're talking to their customers, the client, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, that's right. Yeah. Okay. customers the client you know what i mean like yeah right that's right yeah okay so this is a podcast that kind of does a that's really about a person and i haven't decided if it's one person or if we move through different people or if they're all people called smith and i've chosen smith because you know it's the most common name and in the world in the western world at least and the idea is is there a a podcast in talking to a whole range

of different people about someone and asking them all sorts of questions and anecdotes and building up a picture of someone that's the one person? So let's say the podcast is going to be about this person called Fred Smith and we talk to his brother and then we talked to his friends at work. And then we talked to his parents, you know, one at a time. And then we talked to his kids and then the guy over the road. And then we talked to, and you move it on and on and on and on and on talking to different people and asking them all these questions about, you know, checking and fact checking stories back and forward. And you're just basically looking, you're using him as a specimen

and talking to all these people, asking questions, and deeper and deeper and deeper and more detailed questions about one person. So, it's effectively a podcast about a person. And even the whole season could be about that person. Presumably, the person is either famous or notable or, you know, they're not just like the guy who you butcher on the corner. It's like someone who will have some appeal or? No, they're a total nobody.

Okay. So, no one of note and no one famous. Well, they're about to become famous, but yeah. Well, that's right. That's right. Yeah, yeah. They're being pulled out of obscurity and it's like, here's an ordinary person. And how much can we find out about this ordinary person i think when

you were doing this show you would slightly rig it so that the person had a few twists that you were going to reveal over the series like you'd want to have chosen someone who like you know maybe they'd been to jail or there'd been some tragedy in their past but you hold that back for a few episodes or like you'd and maybe naturally any person you interview those sort of things start revealing themselves but i imagine if like a production company or someone serious was making this podcast they'd choose someone with a few skeletons in the closet that they knew they could drop because then if it became this big popular thing like like a serial or something it'd be like you know episode five oh my god i can't believe joe the

butcher went to jail for killing his wife oh that was such a shock i never predicted that after hearing the first three episodes where everyone talked about how lovely he was and how much they enjoyed his lamb chops like i imagine that's what would happen if this got made i think it's a really good idea i think it's a i actually think it's like almost too good an idea it's like it's something that i can imagine npr or something making like and that even call it something like that i think you've chosen a good name too i mean the name would be the name of the person they chose 360 so it'd be like hein hein 360 or but smith 360 is perfect like you i feel like adding massive um you know what i mean like plot twists like that i feel like that's cheating in a way.

It's cheating, but if it was being made by someone serious and money was being put in it like a production company where it couldn't fail, like it had to be successful, you would have to have that. Otherwise, the risk of it being boring would be too high. It could be, although you could make it. You or me could take that risk, but a proper production company would not risk making that with someone that they didn't know was going

to have a few uh bombs along the way well there's two things there's two risks going on one is you've got to find someone willing to be that exposed and an ordinary person willing to be exposed and that's really difficult because a person who really wants to be on this is not going to be an interesting person to have on this it wouldn't be difficult you don't reckon you reckon people people love exposing their lives like you'd be surprised i mean how do you get all these people in all these reality tv shows and where they set up cameras in people's houses for a year and like it it would not be that hard the difficulty is this is they don't have a voice in it it's only the voices around about them i mean you could interview them the last episode

of the season you could talk about you could talk to them that could be the big end and how they've felt about everything that's been said and you know there'd be lots of things you'd want to ask them having heard so much about them but i kind of the philosophy behind it for me is a little bit like you know like every ordinary person has enough is a little bit like, you know, like every ordinary person has enough going on in their life to, you know what I mean? To base a podcast on. Like that's kind of the premise, you know, that you don't want to have to, um, have to fake it.

But I totally, I hear where you're going with it. Yeah. I don't think you would end up making it not speaking to the person. I think you would have to speak to the person as well. All the way through, you reckon? I see the courage of not talking to them and the novelty of it, but I don't think that's how one would end up making this show. I guess they would feel a bit absent, wouldn't they?

Like you need some way of falling in love with them to want to know about them. Would you like to be featured in this show? No, no, I would not. No, no. So there's not going to be a high in 360 no i would like to host it though i love the idea of you know the asking and peeling and i like that i think there's an interesting project in this in about finding i mean it comes and you're the same as this you're you're a journalist but you you know talking to people and you know ordinary people and realizing that in behind quiet, there is all sorts of really interesting thoughts and backgrounds and jobs and ideas and, you know, all sorts of things that you can pull out.

There would have to be some real big twists and turns along the way. I think just a normal life being told normally without any shocks and surprises would be too boring in the end. I think everyone's interesting and everyone has a story and everyone has interesting aspects to their life, but unless they have some amazing stories or they are the most compelling character, but although you're not interviewing, in your version, the character's not being interviewed, but if they are being interviewed and they're really compelling personality, but i think you've had a really good idea and it's got a cool name as well it's the sort of thing like i said npr would make by the way i don't know if you listen to npr podcasts but they've got so many podcasts with so many names they must be running out of words in the

english language to name their podcasts and they've always got these really pretentious names too because obviously smith 360 is a very pretentious name so it reminded me of npr so much well it could just be 360 but yeah the smith npr podcasts it's been a minute embedded up first hidden brain code switch how i built this they have all these here and now only a game ask me another like they just they just have this endless list of i wonder if it's someone's job to come up with them i'm sure they get workshops npr i'm sure they have lots of meetings yeah big whiteboard okay guys blue sky thinking all right then i like smith 360 yeah there's something take it npr go for it npr you you're offering this one to npr i'm offering it to them to workshop

back to you man what do you got for the sake of a cool name i'm gonna call this podcast the last supper right and it's all about final meals and basically it's a discussion each week about what someone would like to have as their final meal. Oh, that's a great idea. Yeah. Why didn't I think of that? Because you were too busy thinking about Smith 360. Final meal. Because you talk about this all the time.

I know. This is a great point of discussion. Obviously, the cliche is the prisoner on death row. Yeah. I don't think I'd want to couch the podcast as in you're about to be executed or you're about to die. I wouldn't want like this to have death looming over it. I'd want it more to be about food and a meal you'd like so much.

This is the one you'd have as your final meal. Of course, there is a second question here. There are two questions. One is what would you like as your final meal? And the other question one often asks is if you could only eat one food for the rest of your life, what would that be? Maybe that's a whole separate podcast, because I think the answer to that question is probably different to your final meal answer. That is a weird question.

I'm going to go with final meals. Okay, so it's just a way of framing. This is, you've got one more chance to eat. What is it? What is it? And we'll have courses, of course. I don't think we'll make it, you know, there'll be multiple courses. Before we start talking about it, I did a little bit of research

and there is a whole Wikipedia article about what death row inmates have had as their final meal. Oh, yeah. And I found it quite interesting. I don't want to talk about what these people did to be on death row because some of the crimes they were sentenced for were quite heinous. And also, I'm not commenting on the rights or wrongs of the death penalty. This is just what some people chose as their final meal.

The fact that this exists means that it's not a myth then. It's not... Oh, no, it's a totally... Most states in America have it, sometimes with certain rules, like it has to be within a certain budget or it has to be local or something like that. But most states in America do grant the final meal of choice to inmates. And it happens in other countries too. There are some common themes that come up like burgers and cheeseburgers, steak, ice cream comes up a lot, but some of them are interesting. And I'll go into a couple. Here's a murderer from Florida who apparently was famous for being

quite a big man. He had a lobster tail, fried potatoes, half a pound of fried shrimp, six ounces of fried clams, half a loaf of garlic bread and 32 ounces of A&W root beer. Wow. A murderer from North Carolina actually declined his special meal, but he had two cheeseburgers, a steak sub and two Cokes from the prison canteen, from which he four dollars twenty from his prison account this north carolina murderer wasted his final meal in my opinion he had a greek salad with linguine and white clam sauce that sounds nice some cheesecake with cherry

topping garlic bread and a coke like just while we are talking about death row they do sometimes find in prisons that inmates like lose their appetite before they're executed so they sometimes have their final meal a few days before oh yeah there's one guy from indiana who had his a few days before he had prime rib a loaded baked potato pork chops with steak fries rolls and two salads with ranch dressing but interestingly you talked about whether this is a real thing there was this there was this murderer about seven years ago and he ordered this huge meal like that as well. All sorts of stuff.

Chicken steaks and fajitas, meat lovers pizza. He went crazy. And then when it arrived, he said he wasn't hungry. So none of it got eaten. And that caused a lot of outrage. And since then, Texas has banned the final meal thing. And Texas just gives you what normal prisoners have. Right, okay.

There are a few quirky ones too. the final meal thing and texas just gives you what normal prisoners have right okay yeah there are a few quirky ones too and there's just one final one i'll share with you who was this murderer from iowa in 1963 he requested a single olive with the pit still in it before he was hanged and i was like why did he order that so i had to look that up and i did a bit more research and it turns out the reason he ordered that was because he told prison officials he hoped an olive tree would sprout from his body as a sign of peace. Okay. I wondered if it was a myth, but it's...

No. No, there you go. So, why do we ask it in that way? Because it's just another way of asking people, what's your favourite food? But we ask it that way. It's sort of a black way of asking it. I don't know. I think it's like the...

It makes the question higher stakes, doesn't it? It crystallises your thinking. Okay, is this really the food you love? Because you're not having anything else after this. So come on, Tim, what's your final meal? Let's take away the nervousness of the fact that you're about to meet your maker. But like, what are you going to list as your final meal? You can have a starter, a main and dessert.

Yeah, look, I like, as a starter, I like oysters, but I don't think, it's only really what I feel like right now. I'm exactly the same. I've changed my answer about five times in the last two hours and it's so much more fun to think about when you're hungry. I know, I know. But there's no reason why it has to be a dinner either it could be a breakfast yes some people have done that by the way when you when you when you look at this list to find a meal some people go for a big english breakfast which i would which come to think of i would consider because i'd love my breakfasts i do too i love the bacon and the eggs and but no don't you're not going to be sneaky here i can see what you're going to do you're going to you're

going to list all the different things that you might choose so that you've got them all on the record. I don't want that. I want... You have to commit. Well, look, I have to be honest. There's two things. There's probably like a roast.

I really love a roast, like a lamb roast. So, baked potatoes and peas and gravy and, you know, lovely lamb. I just... I do. I do really, really love that. You're going for lamb as the meat, yeah? Yeah, yeah, I am. Yep.

Yeah, so that's, I have to go with that. The other thing, and because I can, I'm weighing it up against something else, so I'm just going to simply say that's the entree, which is. You're having a lamb roast as your starter. That's right. Before I move on to the the kfc right yep my favorite junk food is kfc and so i i you know the chicken yeah so i i don't mind a piece of that i had on my possible list just a huge plate of kfc skin oh brady as if you're not remorseful enough for the murder you committed,

you also have to be remorseful for all the KFC you just ate. Do you remember the guy we knew who managed a KFC? Yeah. Have you heard rumours about all-you-can-eat KFC? And there was just visions about people just taking the skin off and, you know what I mean, it being just an incredible waste of actual chicken. The product is the skin. Why they don't just sort of package that?

I think selling just skin to eat is just a bit too base. Oh, no, you wouldn't call it skin, obviously, but there's got to be a way of getting their herbs and spices and packaging it into some, like a bar or something like a Mars bar. A bar. KFC bar. A drink. A bar.

I'm just thinking. A KFC bar. A drink. I feel like the. Would you like a Mars bar or a chicken skin herbs and spices bar? Well, it's the herbs and spices that's the taste. Julie can do other things with it. No, you need the oil and the fat in there too. Just the herbs and spices would be dry.

It's all that oozy, yucky fat and oil that make the herbs and spices so yummy yeah perhaps i guess anyway it's tempting from time to time sometimes i regret it as well though but yeah so that's in there too i did have kfc skin as like a joke one but do you know what when i then went through the things that people had eaten as their final meal, KFC was super, super common. Really common. Was it really? Very. Well, there you go.

So what about you then, man? Come on, what else have you got? No, you haven't chosen your dessert yet. You've started with a lamb roast. You've gone to KFC, not in bar form at this stage. What are you having as your dessert? More KFC? I think just vanilla ice cream to be honest

vanilla ice cream maybe with that magic topping it's pretty simple but that choc ice one that goes hard like that yeah oh yeah good call the mint one yeah oh that mint choc oh gosh yeah gourmet yeah yeah this is like yeah i mean. I mean, I've had better desserts. I've had better meals. I've had, you know what I mean, like really beautiful meals in some lovely parts of the world also in different restaurants. But you sort of think about it and you come back to these things, which are relatively common, really.

I mean, very common. Perhaps the most common meal on earth is a lamb roast in Western countries. I think nostalgia plays a key role and that's been it plays a key role in my choices as well i'm gonna start with a really really big prawn cocktail a honey prawn cocktail no i'm not having the honey prawns surprisingly and controversially oh wow but i'm having like just fresh fresh cold prawns shrimp big ones like not little tiny little ones like the size of your thumbnail. I'm talking like approaching hand-sized huge prawns

with drenched in prawn cocktail, like cocktail sauce, delicious pinky prawn cocktail sauce. For my main, I'm going to go for, I'm thinking I might go like a chicken parmigiana with chips. Oh, okay. So like a chicken schnitzel with ham and cheese melted over the top and a nice big generous serve of chips on the side. And then for my dessert, I'm going to have an apple pie,

hot apple pie with, I'm going to go vanilla ice cream too, but maybe a little bit of sort of cinnamon in the vanilla ice cream too but maybe a little bit of sort of cinnamon uh in the in the vanilla ice cream and the apple pie has to be like loaded with apple and not too thick pastry i don't want too much pastry in there it's got to be high apple concentration and the apple pie generous on the apple with thinner crust so i beg to differ there i'm with you with the apple pie but i love the pastry in fact the apples are optional so you could have kfc skin followed by apple pie but i love the pastry in fact the apples are optional so you could have kfc skin followed by apple pie pastry with no apple brady you want your kfc without the chicken and your apple pie without the apple i want a little bit of kfc it's the that's ridiculous oh man that's a good choice

that's a pretty good meal but again pretty common meal you meal. You know, in Australia, a, you know, a palmy, a parmigiana is chicken parmigiana or chicken or beef parmigiana. What was the schnitzel? I went for chicken. But I think that's it. Like, it's really common in Australia, but it's not so common here. And I think it's sort of pulling at my heartstrings a bit. Okay. My final meal, I want to be reminded of home and happiness and youth and things like that.

Yeah. Yeah, chips are good. I think it'd be a good podcast. Each week you have a different guest. I'm betting right now everyone listening is thinking about what their final meal would be. Hopefully some of them are going to the subreddit and telling us so we can look and tell them why they're wrong and they should be having KFC skin. It is interesting. Well, this podcast is obviously a good idea because it's a conversation point already.

I've had this conversation so many times with people and, you know, your final meal and what do you want? Yeah, that's a good one. It works. Definitely works. All right. Well, let's pause for lunch. Yeah, I know.

I'm hungry. Can I just say this while we're on that? There's no one on television more condescending than a judge judging food on a chef, like a chef judging food. Even on the ads, they're just looking condescending at, you know what I mean? There's something condescending about them. This is pathetic. Or this is, even when they're saying it's good, they're saying it in a way that's derogatory and pejorative. It's just like, just leave.

If you were the contestant, just say, okay, well, if you don't like it, eat something else and then just walk out and eat your own food. Joke all you want though, how compelling are cooking shows on TV? No, I don't find them compelling. I'm sorry. I don't watch them. Then how do you know how condescending the judges are? Well, I see them on the ads and there's bits and pieces. I'm familiar with them. I like the ones with the guy, every now and then he gets really angry you know about how um oh gordon ramsey yeah yeah i've watched a little bit of that um but again he's getting so angry it's like what why are you getting so angry just explain to them their business this

it's a um i don't understand why you're getting so angry this is not you'd be a fabulous tv producer tim hey everyone that's right calm down don't be angry don't make a scene just calm down Understand why you're getting so angry. This is not. You'd be a fabulous TV producer, Tim. Hey, everyone. That's right. Calm down. Don't be angry. Don't make a scene. Just calm down. Let's just sit down and have a 360.

Off camera. Yeah, off camera. Public don't need to see this. Yeah. Take them out the back, have a quiet word so it's not embarrassing. Bring them back and just watch them cook more competently. Yeah, yeah. The people at home don't want to see this don't want to see your air in your dirty laundry no they don't want

to see people being humiliated and embarrassed and like confrontation and compelling human drama they want to see everyone just like quietly cooking on their own quietly that's right and they don't need all that music in the background as well it's like why why is that there just i don't have that music going when i'm cooking everyone plays lovely classical music when they're cooking or beck or something fun in fact i don't think we should film any of any of the cooking i think we should just have someone sitting in a chair later on telling us what happened earlier. Because that way, if anything goes wrong, it's not captured on camera and no one gets embarrassed or hurt. It's no one's business. No one's business what's happening.

Next week on Tim's Cooking Show, an hour of dead air. It's just like when you grow up, it's just sort of all quiet and then mum gets blank screen for 45 minutes and then mum like it's blank screen for 45 minutes and then mum walks out with a prepared meal and it's really quite nice that's basically that's your experience of cooking for 20 years was just like food magically coming out on a plate that your mum brought from the kitchen that's why you're so shocked by cooking shows it's like horrific to you that this had happened oh it's just devastating it's just it's it's does this happen in our kitchen what's going was gordon ramsay shouting at you mum for all those years that's right

this is a typically tim quickie to end with really okay favorite song as a kid favorite song as a kid your favorite song as a kid that's it different people come on and they talk about their favorite song as a kid all right it's not a very good idea is it uh well i mean i don't think like favorite songs is like at the cutting edge of original ideas but uh but but you know i i'm the guy that came up with final meal so i guess i can't throw stones at the moment but let me let me elaborate on a little bit and justify it a little bit there's there's go on shows where people talk about this kind of thing like there's the desert island discs where people come in and talk about i think it's seven songs and and you go from there but this by talking about one song and locating it in your kid it opens up a conversation why why this song and where did you first hear this song and did you ever see the act live

why was it the one you love so there's a there's a story and there's something that can unfold around the song why was it is it attached to a particular memory is it attached to a particular time and place and did you have the person's poster on the wall and i mean there are obviously different stages of kidhood as well but i guess people can just take that how they want to take it yeah what's going to be yours oh i can't go past the my favourite song as a kid is a song called You're the Voice by John Farnham. Yeah, what a great choice. Awesome song. That was quite big over here in the UK as well.

It was a bit of a hit. It was a bit of a hit in Europe and different places. He never made it big in America. It is a great song. And it's got an interesting backstory as well as a song. Whispering Jack. Whispering Jack. Yeah, yeah, the album.

It's still the biggest, I think, the biggest selling Australian album in Australia. John Farnham is one of those people who became, he's a national hero. Like he's, you know, massive, massive multiple nights selling out in every city in Australia whenever he toured, but never really became terribly well-known outside of Australia. And I think every country probably has people like that, for some reason are a phenomena at home, but it never translates overseas. Yeah, there's one over here, the Beatles or something in England

is like that. It's like everyone in England just carries on about this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know. What's the backstory to You're the Voice? Only the way it was recorded. So, it's a song that's written by, I've forgotten the guy's name, you know, but it sort of floats around the place. It was a minor hit and it was never really, you know, big for anyone like that.

And then Ross Wilson, the guy who was producing John Farnham's big comeback album you know found it and then they started producing it in a certain way they added these little hand claps at the beginning which sort of give it an anthemic feel and then john farnham is a big fan of acdc and they have their famous song it's a long way to the top if you want to rock and roll and that has a bagpipe solo instead of a guitar solo. And so he's like, we've got to have a bagpipe solo. So that goes in there as well. And so the song was totally kind of recrafted. And that's kind of what makes the song.

You know, it starts off in a really cool way. And then it really goes into this other level as an anthem with the bagpipe solo. There aren't enough songs with bagpipe solos. No, there's not. I love them. I love them. Rod Stewart does it every now and then for obvious reasons. I'm going to go for Kokomo by the Beach Boys as my choice.

Yeah, you know, I love that song too. Because my dad bought it on like as an LP, like a vinyl single. And we used to put it on the record player while we were swimming in the pool. We had to take it in turns getting out of the pool to restart the record, like move the needle back to the start. So you'd like swim for three minutes and it's like, all right, it's your turn to get out and replay Kokomo. You have to get out and dry your hands with a towel, tiptoe into the house not to spill too much water all over the house

start kokomo again and then run back outside and jump in the pool it is a great summer song yeah i eventually did get to see it live my dad took me to go and see the beach boys uh when they were in adelaide like you know in one of their revival tours some of them some of the original band was still there and uh but the biggest highlight was that John Stamos was on drums. Yes. Legend. Full house. Special guest touring with the Beach Boys, John Stamos on drums.

I remember him playing a lot of bongos. And they did Kokomo. The strange thing about the Beach Boys, they share this with the Bee Gees, some of the Bee Gees, is that they have beards but really high voices, and that's a funny combination. Do you know what I mean? Beards but high voices is an unusual combination.

It is. It is. But they do it, and they pull it off. I like Kokomo. Kokomo, obviously, it was never released on one of their albums, I think, because it was on the Cocktail soundtrack, which is a pretty good soundtrack, which had another massive hit, Don't Worry, Be Happy, remember,

from Bobby McFerrin. Yes. That's another great 80s song from 1988. Doesn't one of the characters in Cocktail commit suicide? Yes. I don't think it's playing at that particular juncture of the movie. Okay. I've never watched all of Cocktail.

Oh, really? Nah. It's awesome because it's got Brian Brown in it. Yeah. Who's the most blokey Australian character. And he plays, he doesn't do it very well but it's it's sort of him he plays what's he called oh oh lachlan or something he didn't he missed out on the oscar that year did he he did yeah he missed out but he is playing he's

playing like he's true to the character you you believe him as a character favorite song as a kid i guess the the part of it that will be interesting it it will talk about how your musical tastes have changed it'd be interesting to see how you reflect on the song now that your musical tastes have matured or evolved or like how do you look at you're the voice now if it comes on the radio i listen to it i think it's a great song yeah like it's great i don't go listening to it you know what i mean like i don't pull it out and put it on. But if it comes on and you're out there with friends or at a party or something,

everyone just sort of loves it and do kind of love it. I've been a couple of times I've been at parties or clubs or bars and stuff when it's come on and I get pretty excited. Like it's a bit like a de facto national anthem, isn't it, for Australia? And like when you go to like clubs and bars that have like cheesy music nights, sometimes they play that song and everyone gets really into it. And last time I was at a place here in Bristol where they played it, I got very excited.

Were other Australians there? Is that why they played it? No, no. It's considered in that kind of canon of cheesy music to be played at cheesy anthemic music nights okay i think the night i was at where it got played was all about cheesy ballads so i don't although it's not a ballad it kind of got played in that context where they play like you know cheesy cheesy songs of that genre we should end with an idea from one of our patrons so if you support us on Patreon, we're super grateful.

It really helps us keep making the show. Go to patreon.com slash unmade FM if you'd like to chip in. And people who are patrons get to email us and suggest a podcast idea that we may or may not discuss here on the show. I've got a whole list here, Tim. I'm going to have to randomly choose one. Do the 10th? 10th one. Okay. Hey, here, Tim. I'm going to, I have to randomly choose one. Do the 10th? 10th one. Okay. Hey, Brady and Tim. This is from Alex. I have no idea what's coming here. So if

I suddenly abort, it's because the email suddenly got inappropriate. Alex is from Madison, Wisconsin. You can make fun of our beer and cheese, loving all you want. I love cheese. Not really a fan of beer though. He's a technical services representative for a software company. I'm very excited to be going to Brazil this summer. I have gone to Costa Rica a few times, mostly when I was young, but other than that, I've never traveled outside the US. I usually listen to you when I'm on my commute or doing chores around the house. And now here's the podcast idea. I haven't thought of a title. I'd love to hear your thoughts on that, but here's the concept. I'm the host, as in Alex.

The guests will be my friends repeat guests are fine each episode one of us try to convince the other to like a band or musical artist they currently don't like or are indifferent to so let's say Tim is the guest and I'm trying to convince him to like the beautiful music of Kesha I'll try to pick out songs of hers that I think Tim will like and play them in an order that I think gives a digestible introduction. And then Tim will tell me how terrible every song is. The goal of this podcast is not to actually convince the other person, but to promote comedic discussion about what we do and don't like about the music in question. You must love this idea, Tim. I like the focus on the music and convincing someone,

yeah. But this would work on a whole range of levels. Trying to convince someone is an interesting conversation. I mean, I don't know what to say I mean, I think Alex has pretty much outlined the idea It's quite a good idea You're going to green light it Alex, the funding has been greenlit You're on your way NPR right now are skipping the workshop

Going straight to the pre-production What music do you not like, Tim? What's a type of music you don't like That you think would take some convincing? Oh, yeah, that's a good point. There is some blues music that I find really dull. I know it's important and I know people are certain, but there's some blues music that plods and I just, I go, I don't, it doesn't do it for me.

It sounds like lots of others, blues based songs. Do you like jazz? I do. Yeah, I love jazz. Yeah. Gosh, I should do a podcast where I convince you that jazz is a bit boring. That'd be a better

podcast, convincing someone to unlike something. Like, they come into the podcast saying, I really like this, and by the end of it, they're like, oh my God, you're right. That's terrible. What was I thinking? What am I doing? I don't even like the voice by John Farnham. That's right.

It's the worst song ever written. I'm just sitting here quietly while Brady's gone to the front door in case it's a delivery. I don't know if he's going to listen to this, but if he does listen then this is what he'll hear.