The Unmade Podcast - 137: Brady ‘Nearly’ Wins £2m

Episode Date: January 24, 2024

Tim and Brady discuss annotations, Brady nearly winning £2m, Tim in hospital, the moon, things hidden in plain sight, and various other bits and pieces.More chat following this episode can be found in the Request Room - https://www.patreon.com/posts/97099747Support us on Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/unmadeFMJoin the discussion of this episode on our subreddit - https://redd.it/19efvgpCatch the podcast on YouTube where we often include accompanying videos and pictures - https://www.youtube.com/@unmadepodcastUSEFUL LINKSJonathan Strange and Mr Norrell (book) - https://amzn.to/3vNLbcyUndeceptions (podcast) - https://undeceptions.comGinger Meggs - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ginger_MeggsThe Great Court Run - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity_Great_Court#The_Great_Court_RunRichard Osman - https://twitter.com/richardosmanBrian Howe - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Howe_(politician)Willem Defoe (box office) - https://www.the-numbers.com/person/35070401-Willem-DafoeJill, Uncredited - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt22077574/US State Codes - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._state_and_territory_abbreviationsLogos we discussed - https://www.unmade.fm/episode-137-picturesCatch the bonus Request Room episode - https://www.patreon.com/posts/97099747Information about getting the Request Room into your podcast feed (for patrons) - https://bit.ly/3uQWhNz

This recording was made at 9.35am GMT on the 11th of January 2024 and it was edited about 10 days later. Tim, I've had an idea for a podcast. Well, it's not an idea for a podcast. It's, you know, sometimes I like to come up with an idea for like a new genre or an innovation in podcasting. For a prime example of this, see Constrained Podcasting in Episode 4. You're an innovator. There's no other way to say it. I'm an innovator.

I'm an ideas man. You're an ideas man. Clearly. Yeah. You're going to go all meta now. Is that right? Okay. I like the idea of introducing, and I'm going to introduce it to this podcast.

In fact, I may have already introduced it to this podcast. Annotations or footnotes. Ah. introduced it to this podcast, annotations or footnotes. Ah. Very often when I'm editing our episodes, one of us will say something that's incorrect. Yeah. Like just factually incorrect.

It just happens, you know, because we're talking off the cuff. Yeah. Or I'll think of something I wish we'd said or an extra point I wish we'd made or a clarification or something that, you know, but there's nothing we can do about it. We've stopped recording. I have my clay with which I can make the pot and I'm stuck. But that doesn't have to be the case. We can insert annotations, little additions, little beep boops. By the way, people, this fact needs to be pointed out or this was wrong or this was

right or here's something extra you should know or this was the source or, you know, here's where you can find out more about that. So, I'm going to experiment in this episode with annotations and footnotes in the world of podcasting to see what people think. Does it ruin the flow too much? Obviously it will. Or does it add value? Well, I can say a hundred things come to mind.

First of all, I know you've done this from time to time, generally because I've made some sort of mistake. And you just sort of pop in with your close to the microphone voice to say, hey, everyone, Brady here. I know Tim's X, Y, Z, but let's just forgive him and move on, okay? You know what I mean? Like that's happened from time. I'm aware of that. Very rarely, yeah, yeah.

I'm talking more intense than that, but yeah. Yeah, yeah. So it therefore comes with a certain amount of power, right? Because you're essentially the voiceover which gives a level of authority um you could interrupt you know maybe let's say for instance i'm in the middle of an incredibly hilarious gag just an amazing story and then you come in halfway through and go gosh he's really going on a bit here isn't he tim you know or something like or like we'll get the punchline in early.

The punchline is going to be about that pelican. Wait and see. Yeah, that's right. Or even long-time listeners will remember Tim told this story in episode four. Even if I hadn't, it's going to be like, no. It does come with power. You can have annotations in this episode too, Tim. I will give you- We will both have that power. I'm not saying it has to all be me. You can have annotations in this episode too, Tim. I will give you-

We will both have that power. I'm not saying it has to all be me. You can annotate- A double annotation. Maybe I can interrupt your annotation. Yeah, annotate it. I don't know if I'm going to give you that much power. Let's try it out.

Let's say I'm just talking, right? Like, you know, hey, I had KFC before the episode tonight. And then you come in. Tim bought the KFC at Calvin. He had a three-piece feed and a sun-kissed. Just clarifying, I didn't actually have a three-piece feed. I had a four-piece feed. Anyway, back to Brady's annotation.

And it cost him $9.99. Anyway, back to the show. Anyway, so I loved enjoying my case. Yeah. I like it. This feels like a job for Morgan Freeman, doesn't it? Morgan Freeman would be very good at this. Having a third party do the annotations would add a certain something. It would take away some of the intimacy in that, but it would add a certain, yeah, godlike power. Let me ask you this, where do you- you know, as a big reader that you are,

and a man of academia as you are, where do you stand on annotations and footnotes in books? Do you read them all? Like, do you consider that part of the whole reading experience that if there's like at the end of the chapter, there's like, you know, two pages of footnotes. Do you read all of those? Do you read them like in situ as they come up? If there's a little like a four and a footnote at the bottom of the page, do you read that at the time? Do you read it at the end of the chapter? Do you not read it at all?

Where do you stand on footnotes and annotations in books? There are two kinds, of course. One is just a reference, that is- A citation, yeah. That's right. That's where this is. So, sometimes they're of interest in itself. It's like, oh, where did that person say that?

I wonder. Oh, right. Yeah, they said it in that book, you know. Okay. But an actual footnote, you know, where they go down and give you extra information. Yeah. Like a director's cut. Yeah, yeah. I mean, firstly, it's super helpful when you're writing

because you can smuggle all sorts of extra words into the word limit by positioning them down there. You know what I mean? It's like, oh, that whole paragraph, it's not quite on point, but I want to be able to say it. When I'm reading it, I have to say early on when I'm enthusiastic about the book, you know, first chapter, I'll read all of them. Like, it's like, I haven't properly read the book unless they're all there. Then I lose interest in them and start cruising along going, it's up to you to have put

them in. So generally I read them in chapter one and then chapters two and three and four and whatever, I skip over them. Famously though, David Foster Wallace, the novelist, put loads and loads of footnotes in his novels, particularly in Infinite Jest. And it's like another novel's worth of information just on his footnotes, which are, you know, you could almost read them. And you need to sort of have two bookmarks going back and forward and back and forward all the time. I remember I read a book called Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell,

which was like a sort of a magic fantasy type book that was quite popular for a little while back when it came out. Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell was written by Susanna Clarke and published in 2004. That had a lot of footnotes. And I always find it interesting in a novel because it makes it seem more authentic. Like, it seems like- because, you know, this was just a made-up story about magic, but there'd be footnotes and things, and it's like, oh, this must be real if they're adding footnotes and extra facts and stuff. Yeah, like you're breaking the fourth wall to fact-check, even though it's just more- It can give you credibility. Maybe it'll give this

episode more credibility than we normally have. Oh, gosh, I hope so. But the interesting thing about them. Oh, hang on, I've lost my thought. Just while Tim thinks of what he's trying to say, let me insert another gag here. There is a difference between footnotes that come at the bottom of the page and then end notes. Sometimes they go at the end of the book, and I sometimes can't be bothered going all the way to the end of the book to find it. If it's down the bottom, it's a lot easier to glance down. Of the page, yeah.

Of the page, yeah. And also sometimes it depends on how long the footnote is at the bottom of the page. Like you glance down and if it's like three or four sentences, you think, oh, that could be an interesting little nugget. But if it's like 30 sentences or something, you're like, oh, I'm not going to read all of that just for a footnote. That's too much. Yeah, yeah.

If it's taking more than half the page, I feel like it's becoming the book, you know. It's become the page. Yeah, it's become the page, really. And the other stuff is just the doorway to it. I have to say, so that's the written footnote. The sort of oral verbal footnote though is in films it's the voiceover i guess isn't it is there a difference between a voiceover and what you're

talking about an annotation i do think so i think a voiceover as i think of it is usually like sort of a exposition but also part of the narrative. Whereas what I'm thinking of is stuff that's in addition to the narrative. It's just little points of clarification, correction, context, but not necessary to the thrust of the podcast itself. Yeah, like a voiceover is dealing with the big picture, moving the plot forwards, whereas an annotation actually is kind of the very detail, inserting itself into a moment, creating a bit of space to give more detail in a moment, carving it open that way. Oh, this is an interesting idea.

It sounds like a lot of fun. It does. It also sounds like a lot of work. And I do think for the podcast listener, maybe it will un-enhance the experience of listening to the podcast. But just this once, we're experimenting with it. There's a very the experience of listening to the podcast. But just this once, we're experimenting with it. There's a very good podcast that does it really well, which is called... Insert annotation.

Insert annotation. It's by John Dixon called... Undeceptions with John Dixon is a podcast about life, faith, history, culture, and ethics. Undeceptions, that's right. And he does this really well because he's interviewing lots of experts like you do in your videos, lots of scientists and scholars. And they'll often casually throw down a word that his ear picks up and you're a bit like this too. Your journalistic ear says, people won't know what that is. And so they come back later and he just, you know, his voice continues on quietly in the background. But he comes in and says, just to let you know that word is this.

And then, now, back to the interview, you know. And then it picks up from where it's from. That's very clever. That's really helpful, actually. It's like a little Wikipedia along the way. Yeah. That is really good. You might need that in our conversation.

I'm just dropping sort of- You do throw in a few big words occasionally. And I'm like, yeah. I'm like, I don't think Tim knows what that word means. Some really, really, really, really, really big words. Really, really. Really, really big. The biggest. Bigger than all the others, they're so big.

Big, big, big, big, big. What made you think of this idea? Unsurprisingly, I can't- I wish I'd made a note of what the fact was, but it was editing one of our podcasts, one of our last couple of episodes, and one of us said something incorrect. Right. And it was just like, oh, yeah, I wish I could just annotate that. Because when that happens, at the moment, I have a choice. I either save our blushes and cut the section, which sometimes means cutting a joke or something or a point that was made.

But it's like, well, if I can't keep the section without including the error, you know, it's like, what do I do i or and sometimes i'll just like sometimes i let it go sometimes i'll just say people accept that we make mistakes they'll write to us or they'll think we made a mistake but that's life you know and so i i constantly have to make that decision i have to say i'm a little bit more comfortable leaving your mistakes than mine right but but i do cut your mistakes too. I do appreciate you bringing my humility to the fore. Yes. Throwing me out there.

I'm thinking, well, Tim will be really pleased I've really humbled him this episode. That's right. Very good. Yeah. Yeah. It'd be great if you could do this. I guess you can do this in real life. I sometimes, when I'm preaching, will say sidebar comment.

Like, I'll make it clear with my hands. I'm making a point and I go, hang on, sidebar comment just to let you know. You know what I mean? Yes. And that sidebar. I don't think it is good to do it in real life. We have one mutual friend in particular who might know who he is because he occasionally listens to the podcast. friend in particular who might know who he is because he occasionally listens to the podcast side note the friend is called chris and he is referenced in a tommy ball episode as the designer

of tommy ball playing uniforms who very much annotates his conversation it's way too much it's like oh let me tell you a great story about what happened at the cricket yesterday i was there with my mate bill you know bill i used to go to school with Bill. He runs a business now. His business does recruitment in the marine industry. Oh, we're great friends. We travelled to Europe together in 19- No, tell me the story about the cricket, for God's sake. Sometimes you lose track, don't you? Particularly if you don't change the tone of your voice or use hand gestures. You just keep talking. It's just like, oh, you're telling me everything now. There are a few little hand gestures and body language things you can do keep talking it's just like oh you're telling me everything now yeah there is a there is there are

a few little hand gestures and body language things you can do that say sidebar by the way annotation a little a little lean to the side a little hand up with the back of the hand yeah that translates really well in a podcast that's right you look great doing it you look like you're chopping the air. No, good idea. Look, a good idea, it's good for people to be conscious of this and to help people navigate their way through communication, which is very important. Yeah, hold their hand.

That's right. Take away all autonomy and creativity and, you know, just really, really force them where you want them to be. A couple of little parish notices. Oh, okay. You may remember in an episode not too long ago, I mentioned the belly buster challenge. There's a local sort of food and burger van near me that sells sort of junky food. And they have this challenge where they have this huge meal that you buy for, I think it's 20 pounds or something like that.

Correction, it is 15 pounds. And you have to eat it in less than an hour or half an hour or something like that. And if you do, you go onto this wall of fame and only one person had ever done it. Was there a time limit? I thought it was just you had to eat it. Like sitting there in one. I think there is a time limit. Otherwise, people could just sit there for days.

Anyway, I was there the other day just getting my normal civilian burger. I could never do the belly buster challenge. But I looked up at the wall of fame and there was a new name upon the wall. A second person has completed the belly buster challenge. Wow. After years, I made a few minor inquiries. I asked, what's the story? You know, who is this guy? And it turns out he was a local guy. Well, he lived the next town over

and he had taken the day off work with his friend. Him and his friend had both taken a day off work to come in and try and do the belly buster challenge. I believe the friend failed, but he completed it. He's a second entrant into the hall of fame. So. Presumably didn't have breakfast, just saved up for it. I imagine so. Is it best to not have breakfast? Isn't there some, something people say, I don't know if it's an urban myth or not, but if you starve yourself before you do like a big eat, your stomach can

contract and you've got less capacity. So, if you're going for some gluttony challenge, sometimes it's best to not have a totally empty stomach because your stomach shrinks. I remember a Ginger Megs comic strip. Do you know the comic strip Ginger Megs? A very old Australian one. And one of the ones, Ginger Megs is like a small boy at school, but he's a bit of a rat bag. Another one, Ginger Megs is like a small boy at school, but he's a bit of a rat bag.

And there's this challenge that's on whether he can eat three whole ice creams down at the local ice creamery. And there's a bet on, and it's going around the school saying, there's no way Ginger Megs is going to be able to do three. But he does. And his friend later is saying, how did you do that? How did you eat those three ice creams? And he says, don't worry, I tested it beforehand. I went down an hour beforehand and ate three just to see if I could do it. Very good. I don't know if you could do that with the Belly Buster Challenge.

When you come to the UK next, are you going to do the Belly Buster Challenge? I'll give it a go. I'll come and have a look at it. I mean, seeing it in real life in its three dimensions, it might be a little bit intimidating. I'm thinking about this recent winner's friend, though, who took a day off work, came along and just couldn't eat it, just stopped eating even though his friend continued on to win.

He must have been so full. You know what that reminds me of? You know in the film Chariot Sophia when Harold Abrahams does the run around the courtyard and he does it with his friend Lindsay and Lindsay, you've got to complete this run before the clock finishes striking, the 12 strikes of midday, and Harold Abrahams runs over the finish line and into the arms of the crowd like on the 11th stroke or something like that. And then Lindsay crosses the line like half a beat after,

so he just misses out on this. And it's the first time it's been done in like, you know, a thousand years. Yeah, yeah. And so, yeah. It's also a little bit fudged in that film. It's not really that true a story, but anyway. Yeah, it reminds me of that,

the friend who just misses out on the record when you'd get it. The Great Court Run is a tradition at Trinity College in Cambridge. In the film, it takes place in the courtyard at Eton College. And in reality, Harold Abrahams never attempted it. The two old guys up in the office are looking down, though, don't they, say? Yes. Because he says, did Lindsay make it? I'm afraid he failed.

Young Lindsay failed by a whisker or something like that. Young Lindsay failed by a whisker. Yeah, yeah, yeah. they say yes lindsey because he says did lindsey make it i'm afraid he failed young lindsey failed by a whisker or something like that young lindsey failed by a whisker yeah yeah yeah they're looking from like 50 meters away up in the air about crossing a line great film chariots of fire more stuff in chariots of fire is untrue than i realized when i read about it but still a lot of stuff's true. And it's a great film. Was he a runner? Was that true? There was no running involved, yeah. They were actually cricketers. Okay, folks, just to let you know, everything that Eric Liddell says about God

in the film is true. And he became a Christian missionary in China. Legend. Just an annotation to Tim's annotation. It's actually Eric Little, not Liddell. I love, there's something about those sort of early 20th century, late 19th century English, you know, when the empire was still pretty strong. Like I watched Breaker Morant, an Australian film set in the ball of war the other day.

And there's something, you know, when English men still lived up to the cliche of an Englishman with a giant moustache saying, yeah, I say, my word. Tally-ho. Tally-ho, that's right. There's something, you know, quintessential that's uh that occurred with with englishmen at that particular time that that lives on um in caricature i was i was i was actually seeing a few of there was a few of them we were watching um antiques road show the other day and there's quite a few of those english men you know standing around and there's a lot of when they're talking about someone else they'll say they'll use a lot of effusive language such as what a smashing find you know incredible find

really quite incredible the presenters the experts yeah yeah yeah the people with bow ties and so forth yeah but when this when people are speaking about themselves they're self-deprecating like oh my word no not at all. No, I wouldn't. No, that's far beyond. So, English, there's something about they're so self-deprecating in a very polite way, but then they're over the top in their descriptions of the person in front of them who does or has something, you know, moderately interesting. My favourite Englishism at the moment, like that, is used a lot by a guy called- a comedian

called Richard Osman, who a lot of people would know. He's like a TV presenter and now an author. He writes these best-selling books. Oh, yeah, I know him. Yeah, he's great. Yeah, and he's a great guy to follow on Twitter. He's just a smart, funny, brilliant man. But he's very, very English.

And I have a little game with myself where I think I should have a shot of vodka every time he uses the word treat. Things that are a treat. He goes, oh, I just watched the snooker last night. It was an absolute treat. Absolute, yes. And watching the snooker is exactly right. Things are a treat.

Absolute treat. Yes, yes. Last year I read the book by Richard Osman, The Thursday Murder Club, which is a real treat. Prince Charles is obviously one of these guys as well. And I was thinking about if he could take some good stuff onto Antiques Roadshow. Well, that's right. I was thinking how awesome it would be for him to wander onto Antiques Roadshow and just sort of say, look, my mum's died and she's left these. Here's the imperial crown.

Do you think they're worth anything? What's it worth? This is about $400 billion. Oh, I say. Well, that is really quite surprising. He faints. I had no idea. Drops to his knees.

She just wore this around the house. I still, I couldn't possibly sell it. I couldn't. Just pulling out one thing after another. I'd like it if he pulled out the imperial crown and said, oh, my mother left me this. And the expert looks and says, oh, I'm afraid it's a fake. That's right. That's's right that's not a real diamond that's right it's a forgazy they must find antiques roadshow quite boring really

wouldn't they the royal family you'd look at it go oh gosh no that's you know whereas for us it's like oh my goodness i might find something that's like a hundred i mean with all the travel the royal family do they kind of are an antiques roadshow, aren't they? They are. That's right. Yeah. Speaking of wins and things that are worth a lot of money, I had a moment the other night.

Sometimes if we've had a good day or if we've had a bad day, sometimes I'll buy a couple of scratch tickets. Like if I go and buy milk or something at the shop, I'll also buy like a couple of scratch lottery tickets for me and my wife and we'll scratch them and, you know, dream of winning and never do. We were in bed the other night and I bought a couple of scratch tickets to cheer us up. And it had been a long day. It was poor light in the room.

I wasn't wearing my glasses. I'd been spending a lot of time on my screen, so my eyesight wasn't the best. Right. And for a good four or five seconds, I truly, truly believed I had just won two million pounds. It was amazing. Well, take us through it. What was the scratch? Was it like four apples or something? You scratched a symbol off and then you had to match that symbol on another panel. And then the number, the amount of money that was under the symbol is what you win if they're a match. So, I scratched off a coin.

It was like a flat disc of a coin, a picture of a coin, and it said coin underneath. And then I scratched the adjacent panel, which had to match. And the first thing I scratched off was the amount of money. And it said 2 million pounds, which was the maximum you could win. And it hardly ever even says that. Normally, it's like you've won five pounds or you've won 10 pounds. So, I was like, oh, my goodness, if this matches, I win two million pounds. And then I continued scratching off that silver material to see what the symbol was, thinking

it would be, you know, a crown or, you know, a boat or something. And it was a short word starting with C. And to my eyes, it looked like a flat- it looked like the coin. It looked like the same picture. I thought, it's a coin. It says two million underneath. I've won two million.

And I was like, just like- it was a short amount of time, right? It wasn't like I was thinking, how am I going to spend this money, and you know, isn't this great? It was probably three to four seconds before I looked more closely and realised it was a car that just looked a bit like a coin. Right. And I hadn't won.

But for a few seconds, I had that feeling of what it must feel like, you know, when you get a golden ticket or you win the lottery and you look at the numbers and think, I've won. I've won. Oh, my God, I'm a millionaire. And then it was like, oh, no, I haven't. But it was a funny experience. You know how they say it's better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all?

Is that with your scratches? Like, would you rather have had this experience and the disappointment or have never had the experience? Do you know what? I think it's given me a bit of a taste for- Because I don't- I'm not a believer in gambling, right? And like- And I don't enter the lottery and I shouldn't- I'm not a believer in gambling, right? And, like, and I don't enter the lottery. And I shouldn't buy a scratch ticket. So, I do it more as a joke, like, just as a funny moment between me and my wife when I come home and give her a piece of chocolate and a scratch ticket as, like, a- Right. As a laugh.

But it's given me a bit of a taste for, wow, it would feel really good to win two million pounds. Maybe I should do this more often. Maybe if I do it more often, I will win two million pounds. Maybe I should do this more often. Maybe if I do it more often, I will win two million pounds. Right now, there's one that you've missed and it's out there and you could have got it if you'd bought one today, but you didn't. The famous quote, it's better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all, is by Alfred Lord Tennyson, the poet, who Wikipedia tells me his son became the second governor general of Australia. Lock that information away somewhere safe.

Do you do any kind of gambling or risk or anything that could win you a fortune? No, I don't. I don't. I have an ethical thing about gambling because of the way it exploits poor people. Of course. Particularly poker machines in Australia. Like Australia, it's just ridiculous. But even beyond that, I don't find it tempting.

I don't find it interesting or tempting. I know some people are like, oh, here we go, let's do this or let's play this. But it never enters my mind whatsoever to do it. It seems the odds are so stacked. I mean, I never think about it, but the odds are so crazy that it seems like, why would I throw away $5 to buy something that's nothing? Which is, like, so there doesn't seem to be any fun in it.

I mean, if someone handed me one, of course, I'd probably scratch it. You know what I mean? Like, oh, here we go. Oh, yeah. No. But my feeling is this will be nothing. Oh, yeah, it was nothing. Yeah.

Okay. Now I've got to clean up all these little shavings that are sitting there. That's annoying. It's worse when you do a scratch ticket in bed, I found that night was nothing. Yeah. Okay, now I've got to clean up all these little shavings that are sitting there. That's annoying. It's worse when you do a scratch ticket in bed, I found that night. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What a moment.

For a few seconds there, I was like, wow. Well, what would change? Well, this podcast would stop for a start. Would it? No. This is keeping you fed, is it? This is what comes. I don't know.

I don't know what would change. Maybe not much because I'd probably like just want to save it, wouldn't I, for the future and for my boy and stuff. It's not like that's $2 billion. No. $2 billion would probably change your life. Yeah. Well, would almost certainly change your life. Yeah.

You'd probably stop buying scratchy tickets after that. It wouldn't give you a taste for it. It'd probably be enough. I'd put it all into more scratchies. Because if you buy all the scratchy tickets, then you're absolutely going to win. So, I want all of them. Like the rich girl in Willy Wonka, the chalet and the chocolate factory. Hey, speaking of luck and good fortune, you didn't have any this week. Weren't you in hospital?

You were in hospital last time I spoke to you. Well, that's exactly right. Yes, yes. It's always weird. I didn't really tell anyone except you because I knew you'd be awake and it was late at night because you don't want to alarm people. It was almost certainly going to be nothing much at all. You didn't tell your mum in the middle of the night then no i didn't know did i tell her at all i think i can't remember if you're listening mrs hind we've got

you're gonna find the next bit really interesting don't worry tim comes out alive i went i went that's exactly right i i i went to the emergency department at what we call here the RA, the Royal Adelaide Hospital. Not the Royal Albert Hall. No, no. Everything is royal in Australia. And, oh, look, I went because I was feeling quite unwell with a variety of symptoms.

And I called Health Direct, right, to explain my symptoms because they were persisting. I was feeling nauseated and I was feeling quite woozy called um health direct right to explain my symptoms because they were persisting i was feeling nauseated and i was feeling quite woozy and quite strange uh i was lacking concentration and then i had some minor chest pain and it's like oh hello and um so i called them and of course any any the words you know chest pain mean they say well you really do need to go to the hospital so The words, you know, chest pain mean they say, well, you really do need to go to the hospital. Yeah, keys to the kingdom.

Yeah, so I did. And they checked it out. And, look, what I suspected it was and what we do think it was was some sunstroke, you'll love this, from surfing. So I'd been out surfing the day before for the first time this summer. I've not got down there because it's been so busy and other things going on. And I went down, had a surf, but it was all overcast. And so I forgot to put on sunscreen, sunblocker, and went out there for a while and come back not feeling anything.

But later that night is when I started feeling, you know, I don't even know if it's nauseous or nauseated. Anyway, I felt nausea and thought, oh, I've had a few too many barbecue shapes, you know, while we're watching this movie. So I stopped that. Okay. Could have been those four KFCs on the way home as well, but yeah. That's right. Nothing changed, so I recommenced the barbecue shape because it clearly wasn't there. And I thought, oh, I've just had too much to eat.

I'll go to bed. So I went to bed. I woke up the next, but I was still feeling nauseated the next day so then you go hello that's hanging around a while and all that day i felt i just didn't feel myself i felt really really weird till finally the nagging of my wife uh in her caring way meant that i called up and so we went into the doc hospital they did tests we were there till like 3 a.m in the morning did you go alone or was she with you uh she came with me. She was going to drop me off and then she ended up coming in as well. And then it was quite quick.

You know, the chest pain thing meant that they were like, oh, hello. So we were, so she ended up just staying with me because we went out the back almost, you know, pretty quickly. Were you still holding your pack of barbecue shapes? No, no, no. No, they, no. That's a good look. Put back in the pantry for the next day. That's right.

I love the idea of going into A&E with chest pains, holding a pack of barbecue shapes. Do you know what I did? I did because my dad had so many heart attacks and I spent so long in hospital waiting, waiting, waiting. I always overstock. So even for this one, I threw in an iPad and a book and then a notepad for notes and a pen and, of course, the phone charger, which is the most important thing.

I took all of that with me. And in my little bag and everything, it's like, oh, I'm stocked up in case the baby comes tonight, you know. I'm going to be fine. But they did a whole bunch of tests, tests in a lot of ways and and uh and i'm fine nothing critical nothing at all and but they they think that's probably what it was i said to tim we should have recorded an episode with him in the hospital and called you know because that would have been a good idea for a podcast wasn't it my last day the death of tim like you know the potentially cover it live it would have been

a bit like your scratchy ticket though a bit disappointing at the end because he lives it's like yeah it's like oh that's an anticlimax but that leaves room for another episode at least well that's true another final episode yeah that's right yeah well i'll go surfing again tomorrow and we'll see how we go i won't put sunblock on again. No, dude. We'll just keep going. Wear your sunscreen, man. No, it wasn't good. It was not a good feeling at all. Even though I was hanging on to the beautiful surfboard,

it was not a good feeling. You definitely, if it happens again, do call me because that would be a good, that's a good podcast idea, talking to people while they're in accident and emergency. Yeah, yeah. Getting the raw emotions of the moment. How are you feeling? There's always that sort of trepidation combined with boredom.

That's what emergency departments are like. The doctor's coming in now, man. He's coming in. He's strapping the heart monitor on me. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Oh, it doesn't look good. It doesn't look good.

It doesn't look good. Man, are you there? Are you there? In no situation when it's genuinely not looking good does the patient go, it's not looking good. It's not looking good. This could be it, man. This could be it.

I can't breathe. I can't. Hang on. I can't. I can't. I can't. Here I go. I can't breathe. I can't. Hang on. I can't. Here I go. I can't breathe. Go to patreon.com slash unmade FM.

Thanks, Hover. All tributes can be left at timhines.memorial.au. If you'd like to find out what happened next to Tim, go to patreon.com. We'll be speaking to Tim's spirit in the afterlife in the request room later on. Afterlife episode. Parish notices are coming from heaven today as we cross live to Tim. Join us in the Ouija boardroom Oh, one more piece of parish notice, by the way Speaking of parish notices

Yes You might remember last I think it was one of the last episodes Recent episode Annotations will take care of this It was episode 136 We heard from Jay Who sent in a brilliantly produced song To help people memorise the 12 apostles

Which is a bit of a thing we're into Songs to help memorise the names of the 12 apostles And I thought he did a fantastic job But Tim condemned it Tim was like, nah, not having this This is a load of rubbish. Was it a load of rubbish you said it was? Worst piece of music you'd ever heard?

No, no, no. It wasn't that bad. I said it was admirable and educational, but it was not the kind of music I like. Because it was that sort of poppy punk sort of stuff. Yeah, that's right. It just wasn't your cup of tea. No. So, anyway, we've heard from Jay once again.

This is what Jay said. Hi, Tim and Brady. It's Jay again. Thank you for the kind words regarding the song I put together. It genuinely means a lot. Anyway, I'm somehow not surprised that Tim isn't particularly fond of the pop punk genre. So I did what I think any other reasonable unmade podcast listener would do and take it as a songwriting exercise, a weekend project. With that, here's an arrangement of the song that my wife fondly calls Tim's Sunday

version of the Apostle Song. And here is what Jay sent in. you do another pass at the Twelve Apostles sign in a genre I hope will get you to sing along Peter, Matthew, James and John Jude, Andrew, Philip, Simon, Judas, James, Bartholomew, Thomas, James and John. Judah through Philip, Simon. Judas, James, Bartholomew, Thomas and sometimes Matthias too. What do you think of that one, Tim? How would you describe that?

Better, yes. Yeah? Yep, yep. Why is it called Tim's Sunday Version? Is that supposed to sound like a church song, do you think? Is that what it is? I think perhaps it's got that sort of anthemic, like that sort of Coldplay-ish kind of sound that a lot of church music has these days, contemporary church music.

Yes. That's also not really my cup of tea. Does your church do contemporary church music or old-fashioned church music? It does a mix. It does a mix. We have like a big old organ for a couple of songs and then we have a couple of other songs.

But with really great musicians playing a whole variety of different sort of genres. It's not all in that same kind of anthemic-y kind of thing. Look, this is great. This is better. Yep. No, great. Good.

Yeah. Sounds good. I like it. Yes. Yes. And did it help you memorize the name of the 12 apostles? No, no, it didn't do that. No.

The other one was better for that. But you know what, Jay? I really feel like you're just getting warmed up. Because in the same- What do you want Jay to do next? Because Jay signed off his letter saying, until the next songwriting challenge from Jay. So what is the next songwriting challenge for him?

It's a little bit like, you know, in the story of the Goldilocks and the Three Bears, there was one that was a little bit too hot and a little bit too cold, and then there was just – and I just feel like Jay needs to find his Goldilocks option. I just don't feel he's quite hit it yet. So I think he's getting there. He's certainly a step in the right direction.

But I just wonder, Jay, if you can surprise me, come out with something that you think is going to be the Tim version that sounds, I'll say this, remarkably different, just to sort of set the bar quite high and see what Jay comes up with. There we go. That's a challenge. Okay. Setting the bar high there, Tim,

what's the greatest piece of music ever written? Ever written. Before the next episode, please. That's right. About Okay. Setting the bar high there, Tim wants the greatest piece of music ever written. Ever written. Before the next episode, please. That's right. About the 12 apostles. If anyone would like to submit a song, email us at unmadefm at gmail.com. Tim, we are going to have a podcast idea from Tim. Don't worry, people.

I know that's what you really listen for. But first of all, we have some prizes to give out. We love to give little awards. We love to give little awards. We love to give little prizes out to our Patreon supporters. Go to patreon.com slash unmadefm. If you wish to support the show, we really appreciate people who do it. We also appreciate people who don't, who just listen. But those people aren't in the running for these prizes,

such as a leather Unmade Podcast keyring, the Australian nut handmade in England key ring. I think this has become the premier prize, Tim. I think this has overtaken the Unmade Podcast spoon as the must-have item. It is, because it's useful as well. That's the thing. Well, spoons are pretty useful. No, I know, but, they're on the wall. They're decorative.

They're like a trophy. Something to brag about when people come over. Whereas the keys, you take with you. You've got it everywhere. And it's leather. It smells nice. It does smell nice. Anyway, this nice smelling key ring is going to Mick B in the Netherlands.

Oh, Mick. Off to the Netherlands. Patreon supported in the Netherlands. Home of windmills, pretty good footballers, and birthplace of Tim's father. Have I mentioned that previously, have I? Not this episode. No. But we have.

We've got it in now. Yeah. An unmade podcast spoon is going to Siddharth in Washington State to go on the wall. You could attach the spoon to your keys, I guess, if you wanted to. Oh, you could. It'd be hard. Some welding would have to be involved. And we are going to send Spoon of the Week collector cards.

Just a little, a small few of those in an envelope are going to Olav M from Norway. Jason F from, oh, I didn't look up. Which state in America is IA? Indiana? That's probably IN. Is it Iowa or is it Idaho? Jason F from IA. Annotations.

Annotations. Oh, perfect. Yes, add it in. Go. From IA, annotations. Annotations. Oh, perfect. Yes, add it in. Go.

IA is Iowa. IN is Indiana. ID is Idaho. IL is Illinois. And lastly, Chris from Northcote in Victoria in Australia. Brilliant. Where's Northcote? Northcote.

I think that's just near Preston, just north of Fitzroy. I used to drive through Northcote to get to where I lived in Preston, inner city Melbourne. Beautiful area. Fantastic area. Okay. And now home of a few Spoon of the Week collector cards. Congratulations, Chris.

I thought, Tim, if you'll indulge me for a second, we'll do a quick sort of semi-well, let's do it. Let's roll the jingle. Moon of the Week. Are we doing a Moon of the Week, are we? You literally winced when you heard Moon of the Week. You couldn't stop the look on your face. All right.

All right. Come on. Okay. You know how there are those websites which tell you the most appropriate place to go to the bathroom if you're watching a movie and need to slip out of the cinema for a few minutes? Moon of the Week. Don't tell Brady, but Moon of the Week is kind of that bit. It's not what you think. It's not me finding some obscure moon from the solar system and telling you a bunch of random statistics about it.

I'm going to read you a message that comes from, I believe, a Dutch or at least Dutch born listener. So, that should mean something to you. And it's not about any moon. It's about our moon, the Earth's moon, Luna. Okay. All right. Progress. Hi, Tim and Brady.

I enjoyed listening to the podcast last night while taking a walk around my neighbourhood. I usually do this in the evenings when it's cooler because I live in Singapore, which is almost on the equator. I'm Dutch, by the way. Holland is decidedly not on the equator. But one thing about Singapore nights has always struck me as super interesting, and that's to do with the moon. And I know you guys enjoy moon facts. Half of us do anyway. Did you know that the moon changes shape depending on where you stand on the earth? What?

On the equator, the crescent moon never looks like it does in pictures. the crescent moon never looks like it does in pictures. Whereas emojis, symbols on calendars all show the moon as a kind of upright banana, showing either its left or right side. It doesn't look like that here. From the equator, the moon looks more like a bowl facing either up or down. Coming from the Northern Hemisphere, I'm Dutch by the way, this always fascinated me because it makes me realise that the moon really is this giant bowl floating in the sky somewhere above us, and we look at it from different angles. What's more,

if the both of you look out the window from different hemispheres on a night with a crescent moon, one of you will see it pointing left and the other pointing right. This is relative. Look before the moon is directly overhead in your time zone because otherwise you can't tell left from right anymore. I'm pretty sure most people never realise this unless they move around a lot. But with modern technology connecting us across hemispheres and time zones, I thought this would be an interesting fact to know.

Thanks for making an awesome podcast. Regards, Jelma. Jelma. Hmm. Hmm. I think it's Jelma. I put a little J in there because I wanted to sound like international. I could have just said Jelma.

Jelma. I went for a bit of Jelma. Here's the pronunciation from the man himself. Jelma. Jelma. I went for a bit of Gelmer. Here's the pronunciation from the man himself. Gelmer. Gelmer. Did you learn anything in there? Is there any of that new information for you? I hadn't thought about the fact that the crescent moon sits like a bowl or a rainbow right on the equator.

But I would have. It doesn't surprise me because another thing a lot of people don't realise is that depending if you're in the Northern Hemisphere or the Southern Hemisphere, the moon kind of appears upside down. So, where you think the craters and everything are is actually the opposite for people in the other hemisphere. I know this because I went to the Southern Hemisphere with a very famous astrophotographer from England. He knows it.

He takes amazing pictures of the moon. He knows everything about the moon. He's fantastic. His name's Pete Lawrence, by the way, just to give him a name check. He's a really good guy to follow on social media because he posts such great pictures. And we went to Chile together to make some videos. And I said to him, oh, this is going to be really interesting for you because you're going to see the moon upside down. You've looked at the moon so many times and taken so many pictures of it, like a famous face to you. The face is going to be completely upside down. And he said to me, no, it's not.

What are you talking about? And he looked at me like I was a fool. And he said he didn't thought I didn't know what I was talking about. And I said, yeah, it's the other way around. And he said, no, no. And then we got there to Chile and then the moon came out during the day, actually. We first saw it when we were out in a desert. And he looked up and he went, oh, my God, you're right.

It's upside down. It never occurred to me, but it is. Wow, okay. All those craters and things that he's used to seeing were suddenly at the other side of the moon. Do you, you know, here's an interesting thought, right? What have you been talking about these interruptions called, our footnotes? They're called? Annotations.

Annotations, right? So, you do an annotation, which is adding inaccurate information. It would be interesting to do sort of a reverse annotation. And that is for you to be able to jump into seeing what I'm seeing in my mind's eye right now, based on the information that I've been given. So, if you were to say to me, do you know what that... Do you understand? I'll go, yeah, I think I understand. But then if you could see what I could see, you would probably go, no, you don't understand. So it's almost like we could, do you know what I mean? Like if you could, if it was a visual annotation into this moment, if you could see what I was seeing.

I would love to see the world through Tim's eyes. That would be funny. It's like, if only I could see the point you- if I could see your mind comprehending the point I'm making, I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying. I know you think you're understanding what I'm saying, but it's not. Which is sort of- It's like- All right. I've thrown enough moon at you there. Nice. Does it make sense to you why the moon would be upside down for you and me?

Yes. Yes. Yes. Like, if there's a massive ball, right, which is the earth, and where my left hand is gesturing is one person, and where my right hand is gesturing a person, and if my head is the moon, you know what I mean? Like, this person is looking at it from one angle, this person is looking at it from another.

It's far enough away and small enough that you can see different perspectives. The way I like to think of it is, imagine and that's very good you're exactly right man i like to think of it like imagine you are that your head is the moon right your face is the moon i know you know this i'm just doing this for the sake of other people your face is the moon hold a basketball out in front of you like hold- stretch your arm out and hold a basketball in front of your face and pretend that's the earth. Imagine one person standing on top of that basketball, like on the North Pole, and they're looking at your face and they're going, oh yeah, look, there's Tim's face. Oh yeah, there's Tim's, good looking guy. All right. Now imagine someone on

the South Pole of that basketball. Well, they're going to be upside down. If you're- As you hold it out, if they're standing on the south pole of the basketball, they're, like, stuck to the bottom with their feet on the basketball and their head down below. So as they look at your face, they're looking at your face completely upside down. Because the moon doesn't spin, does it? Well, the moon does rotate on its axis. It does turn, but also it turns at the same rate that it goes around the earth.

So, the face is always looking at the earth. But yeah, but you're right. No, it doesn't roll from top to bottom in any way. No. It spins like a top. It doesn't roll like a ball. No. Yes, that's right.

Yeah. All right. This is hard to hurt. Okay, let's move on. All right, let's move on. Tim, have you got an idea for a podcast? Well, I do. And actually, The Moon is a pretty good example of my podcast, although we're not following

the line of thought of my podcast because we have actually been talking about it. Because my idea is called H in plain sight and this is a podcast where we explore things that we see all the time and don't even realize that we see or people that we see but know nothing about it's almost like people who are anonymous but highly visible or people that are there all the time you don't realize they're there and we just unpack and finally, it's like you finally see them standing right in front of you in the zeitgeist on television or in your life or in your family or in the community. Go on.

And I came up with a couple, I've got three ideas, three examples really from this. The one that I'll mention only very briefly because it was someone who came to mind is an example of this is a man called Brian Howe. Now, you may not remember Brian Howe, but he was the deputy prime minister of Australia in the Keating government. So in the early 90s. Now, he's a really interesting guy, but he had like zero profile. Like he was the second most powerful man sitting on the front bench. But because Paul Keating, our prime minister at the time, was such an enigmatic figure, all the attention, he was a lightning rod for attention.

And so the deputy prime minister was kind of this, like no one could name who he is. I would argue the deputy prime minister is not the second most powerful person. But that's another point but anyway well they certainly are more powerful than say a deputy a vice president who is genuinely powerless but in any case he's in a very powerful position and um perhaps the treasurer is the most second most powerful person but anyway he just came to mind because it was like suddenly oh yeah like he, like he's there. And he did no interviews and had no, but he was a really interesting person as well. He was a minister, Uniting Church minister before he became a very successful politician. So that was the

first idea that came to mind. The second idea of an example that came to mind was the actor Willem Defoe. Now, Willem Dafoe is one of the most successful and accomplished, like, box office-wise and in terms of prestige and credibility, actors in history. Again, I think maybe you slightly overstate the case, but all right. But, yeah.

I'm not saying he lives in a shack in the middle of nowhere that, you know, everyone's forgotten his name. No, no, but I also would say he's probably not one of the most famous actors in history or anything he's like you know he's solid but but he's been in some incredible films like yeah and and he's been he starred in them as well like films that have won multiple films many many films that have been nominated for best picture at the oscars you know he's that kind of was a body of evidence the one he was in with madonna he was in one called Body of Evidence. That was not one of his more successful ones.

A lot of Madonna's films aren't successful. Doesn't he get a bit nudey in that one? Yes. Man, you're not that. Come on. Let's keep it clean, please. According to thenumbers.com, Willem Dafoe's films have taken an international box office of $12.2 billion. If you just look at supporting actor performances,

he is 20th on the all-time list. Do you know, it's funny that you bring up Willem Dafoe. Can I just do a quick tangent before you continue on your Willem Dafoe rant? Right. For Christmas, we had some friends join us. So, for a bit of a joke, I got everyone who was joining us for Christmas and sitting around the table, and I put their picture into a website that chooses your celebrity lookalike. And then I printed out the celebrity lookalike pictures and put that on everyone's place at the table. So, when everyone came in to sit at the table, you had to find your celebrity lookalike and sit in front of them.

Oh, nice. And my friend James, who was joining us for dinner, he got Willem Dafoe. So he came in and was looking for his face, and there was this picture of Willem Dafoe at his place setting, and he said, who on earth is that? I said, it's Willem Dafoe. And I don't think he knew who he was.

So that makes your point. Perfect, perfect. That's right. But he was in. My hair looks a bit Willem Dafoe today, doesn't it? I've got a bit of a Willem Dafoe look happening. Because he's sort of, he's got the kind of hair that looks like he's just taken a headband off. Like he sort of stands up.

Yeah, he does. And that's what my hair looks like today. It certainly does. And I can wrinkle my forehead a bit more. He's very wrinkly. Yeah, he's got a real weathered face, even as a young man. He was in Platoon. He was in The English Patient.

He was in- Spider-Man. Spider-Man, that's right. Yes, a lot of people may know him from. He was the goblin, the green goblin. That's right. That's right. Yeah, yeah.

He's been in, like, dozens and dozens of films, like the John Wick films, and he's done voices in, like, Finding Dora. But way back he did, even from, like, the 1980s, The Last Temptation of Christ, Mississippi Burning. He was in Finding Nemo. He was the big black fish in the fish tank. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Yeah, yeah.

Mississippi Burning, which for some reason we were made to watch repeatedly at school. Oh, yeah. Whenever something went wrong at school and they had to show us a video, they'd always roll out the TV set and put on Mississippi Burning. That's right. I don't know why. I think it must have been the only video they had in the school. And it's quite a violent,

brutal film too, actually. But he was also in Clear and Present Danger, you know, with Harrison Ford. Big box office kind of stuff, actually. But he was also in Clear and Present Danger, you know, with Harrison Ford. Okay. Like big box office kind of stuff, right? But he's not a Brad Pitt or a George Clooney, and that's why I kind of like him. He's like, and he's not even as sort of good looking

as like a Harrison Ford even. He's kind of the nemesis looking guy, but he's around forever and he feels like he's always been the same age. He's a character actor. Yeah, yeah, that's right. Yeah, yeah. I don forever and he feels like he's always been the same age. He's a character actor. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I don't think he gets his due. I mean, he's been nominated for four Oscars, so that's kind of getting your due. But he's kind of hiding in plain sight. He's still making movies now. And he's another example that came to mind. The other one is the other example that I thought of is actually quite a different kind of example.

And it's based on a short film that I saw by I think I think it was a French filmmaker and it's called Jill Uncredited. And it tells the story of this particular actor who actress who had been who has been in000 films as an extra. So just in the background, but in really prominent moments, like just alongside famous people, just in the background at a very tense moment. She just has one of those faces that's like looks like it belongs but is kind of forgettable as well. And so I kind of like that idea of Jill, you know,

hiding in plain sight. I had seen several of the movies even though this is going back historically like French movies and other movies in American movies and she's just there you're seeing her all the time but you're never reeling and it's another way of her hiding in plain sight Jill Uncredited is a 2022 short film by Anthony Ng starring finally credited credited here, Jill Goldstone. What do you think of this idea? If I could feed back on it, the Jill uncredited, I think, is getting closer to the idea of hiding in plain sight.

Yeah. Which I like the name, hiding in plain sight. And when you said it, I was quite excited. But I wasn't really thinking of people. I was thinking of objects and things that form part of our life but I wasn't really thinking of people. I was thinking of like objects and things like, you know, things that form part of our life that we don't really see them. And I thought you, and that kind of excited me. But then you started talking about people like Brian Howe and Willem Dafoe.

And I don't think of that as hiding in plain sight. I think of that more kind of veering towards like unsung heroes, maybe, you know, like more like that, more like people that don't get their dues or their recognition. But I don't feel like you could hardly accuse the deputy prime minister of a country or an actor like Willem Dafoe of hiding or being, you know, unseen, you know. They're standing in parliament and they're acting on a screen.

So I like the idea but I don't really think of that as hiding in plain sight as the right cliche. I think of that more of a kind of, yeah, unsung hero type thing. So I think I like the idea, but I think your examples don't quite match what I wanted it to be when you first said it. The reason I use them as examples is because I think they're the kind of people where if someone meets them at a party, they'd be like, I know you from somewhere, like a super famous person that you don't know, basically. It's like, I know you from somewhere.

It's like, yes, you've seen several of my films, but I don't know your name. It's, you know, that kind of idea. Yeah. I was more hoping it would be at the party, you and I having a chat and you saying, oh, have you ever seen one of these inventions or one of these do-wackies and that? And I'm like, no, I've never heard of that. What's that? And then you saying, well, there's one right there on your shirt. And I'm like, oh, my goodness.

I never even knew these things existed. Oh, my God. You're right. Like, oh, yeah. Yeah. That's the kind of hiding in plain sight I want. Like. That is interesting, too. Without it being. being i mean you could look at if i use my

parliament idea you look at parliament and there's like some a bunch of objects there like the black rod and there's the dispatch boxes and things and there's there's a podcast idea and going oh you look at those you don't really know what they are but they look kind of special you're looking you're thinking about something even more anonymous, even more everyday. I guess a good example, I mean, maybe this isn't quite an example either, but a really good example for me of something like that was the day I saw it explained to me that on your petrol gauge on your car, where it says, where the needle is telling you how much petrol is in your car, next to the little picture of the petrol tank is a little arrow. And that little arrow either points to the left or the right like a little triangle and if it points to the right you're the place you refuel your car the nozzle is on the right and if it's on the left it points left it's on the left and i never knew that was a thing but all cars have it and i didn't and so if so even if you're in a car that you're not used to you know a hire car or

something you know which side to park at the petrol pump by looking at that little triangle, that little arrow. And I had driven cars, you know, since I could drive. And I only learned that probably five or six years ago now, maybe more. But I'd driven cars for a long time and not known that was a thing. That was something that had been hiding in plain sight. It had been on the dashboard of every car I'd ever driven. And I didn't know. And so many times I'd pulled up at petrol pumps and looked in the mirror and tried to figure out, oh, what side do I pull up? I don't know. I can't remember where the refuel nozzle is. And yet that was always there hiding in plain sight until it

was pointed out to me. And, you know, I think it's quite a well-known fact now in the days, now that we've got the internet and people love sharing crazy facts and stuff. But that was that's a really good hiding in plain sight for me. I feel like that's an example that that's a very good example. And I think we all do only know about it because of social media, which is another way of saying that it's absolutely terrible design. Yeah. That something's entire purpose has been totally redundant for however long they've been doing it which might be 30 or 40 years yeah it's it's like finally realizing oh those doors with the little man on it that's where i go to the toilet it's like oh right i

didn't realize that it's like yeah yeah yeah yeah it's like you failed you had one job to tell us something and you failed. But, no, that is a very good example as well. Yeah, something that's, oh, my goodness, that's right there. Another popular one, and you often see this again, social media has made this more common and a bit more clichéd, is design features in logos and things like that. Oh, yeah.

And the one that springs to mind is that always gets cited is FedEx. The FedEx logo, which just looks like the words FedEx, has this arrow hidden in it between the E in X and the X in X. So, if you look between the E and the X in FedEx, you see the negative space, the blank space forms this arrow, which is sort of, you know, all about FedEx, getting things delivered, going places, transportation and that sort of stuff. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's another one where like the arrow was sort of hidden in plain sight. And there's lots of other examples in logos and advertising where sort of messaging is being kind of hidden in front of you but giving you ideas and suggesting things. Yeah, yeah.

The one that comes to mind for me is the Amazon sign, which has the little arrow from A to Z in the word Amazon. You know, the little arrow underneath. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I didn't realise that pointed from A to Z actually. Yeah. I have to tell you one. There's the Red Rooster.

You remember Red Rooster? Yeah, I do. Arrival to KFC, but has a new logo, and it's so good. I really, really love it. I was driving down the road and talking about it with my daughter when we saw it the other day. The two R's facing each other, and it looks like the face of a chicken. That's right.

That's right. But then, look, there's another's facing each other, and it looks like the face of a chicken. That's right, that's right. But then, look, there's another chicken in there as well, though. Like, there's the chicken facing forwards as well. Well, yeah, that's the one I was looking at. No, no, no, but don't you think it's two R's, but it's kind of like, yeah, yeah, yeah, but it's kind of, oh, yeah, the two R's facing each other and the chicken pointing at you straight away. Yeah, so the negative space in the R's, between the R's and in the circles, the face of a chicken looking like flush on it yeah yeah it's cool that's good isn't that great yeah it's a good logo if you're heading to red rooster the hawaiian meal is the best the

tropical meal get that i love those pineapples okay oh yeah in a rare diversion bit of variety away from kfc you had kf today, didn't you? I did. I had on the, yes. There was a lovely perfect hour between one appointment I had to do and doing this. Day and a half after you'd been tested to see if you had a heart attack. Legend. Came back all clear. It got me all clear.

Got KFC on the way home. We got Maccas on the way home we got maccas on the way 3 a.m really yeah because we didn't have dinner so nothing was open so you got a mcdonald's on the way home from the emergency department after having heart checked quarter pounder coming home got the all clear everything's okay not a problem yes any uh secret words no no no because no because i didn't go home in between. They've given up on you, haven't they, your daughters? Yeah, yeah.

I think they have. Yep, yep. I did one the other day just going into a meeting. I had to go to an important meeting and I said, do you want me to slip anything into this meeting? And so they gave me a couple of words, but- You forgot to? I did, yeah, because I was at a really important meeting.

Discussing all these like high finances at the church college and Tim's like, sure, we'd like a marshmallow right now. Check out those beanie boos. Aren't they great? Anyway. Okay, now in editing, I'm happy to announce the secret words are mug and broccoli. Okay, now in editing, I'm happy to announce the secret words are mug and broccoli. Anyway, for those of you who just can't get enough of us, if you follow us on Patreon, patreon.com slash unmadefm, you can now join us back in the request room, which is kind of like where we go for our after party and have a bit more chat and talk about things

that patrons have requested. We have had some very interesting requests today, Tim. We've had one of the listeners has requested that you and I play I Spy. So I think maybe we'll give that a go in the request room. So come and join us, patreon.com slash unmadefm. You can either listen via like the Patreon page, like there's a thing you can click on, or if you follow all the links and do all the things you're supposed to do, there's instructions everywhere.

You can actually have the request room like delivered on your podcast player. There's like a link that you get via Patreon and you put it in and it works. I've got it working. So, but yeah, it's pretty, it's pretty simple, but you've got to be a Patreon supporter. So, and if you're not, that doesn't matter because you've listened to this episode and hopefully you thought it was fantastic. Well, we'll see. I haven't heard the full episode yet because I haven't heard the little footnote. What are they called?

What are you calling them again? Annotations. Annotations, yes. I haven't heard the annotations. You used to have annotations on YouTube. When I first started using YouTube, you were able to put in text that would pop up in a little box on the screen. It was really useful, especially when you made a mistake in your video. You could have a little annotation pop up on the screen that would just say, you know, sorry, I should have said seven here instead of six and things like that.

YouTube took that away really quickly a long time ago. It was a real shame. They were really handy. But I guess people were misusing them. I don't know if you're using the word annotation correctly. Hmm. Oh, okay. Yeah, okay.

Yeah, no, that's close enough. That's all right. Fair enough. The Merriam-Webster Dictionary defines an annotation as a note added by way of comment or explanation. All right, let's go to the request room. Okay.