The Unmade Podcast - 144: The First Lady

Episode Date: June 11, 2024

Brady’s wife Kylie Pentelow is our VIP guest, discussing celebrity interviews, irrational outrage, and people who are wrongly convicted of crimes.Kylie dishes more dirt in the Request Room - https://www.patreon.com/posts/105991672The Innocence Podcast website - https://www.innocence.fmThe Innocence Podcast on Apple Podcasts - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-innocence-podcast/id1615808386The Innocence Podcast on Overcast - https://overcast.fm/+4wbE-QOAASupport Unmade on Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/unmadeFMJoin the discussion of this episode on our subreddit - https://www.reddit.com/r/Unmade_Podcast/Catch the podcast on YouTube where we often include accompanying videos and pictures - https://www.youtube.com/@unmadepodcastUSEFUL LINKSQuentin Rayner’s Archers Podcast - https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/all-about-the-archers-a-podcast-about-the-archers/id1706526260Engelbert Humperdinck (is alive) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engelbert_Humperdinck_(singer)F.W. de Clerk  (not FD) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F._W._de_KlerkCream Tea - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cream_teaBrady and Kylie co-host the Younglings Podcast with Amanda Knox and Christopher Robinson - https://www.younglings.fmCatch the bonus Request Room episode for more with Kylie - https://www.patreon.com/posts/105991672Information about getting the Request Room into your podcast feed (for patrons) - https://bit.ly/3uQWhNz

Kylie, I know you spend a lot of time in BBC studios and that, but this must be kind of a big deal for you. I particularly like the elastic band holding your microphone to the stand there. That's like improvisation. I'm like MacGyver. Can I just say that I've already been told off, haven't I, Tim? You have, yes. Because I had a coffee in Brady's office and I had to take it out.

I don't like the smell of coffee. What can I say? This is my space. How's my breath? I'm enjoying your breath. I love the smell of coffee. Just as well we're sitting opposite. It's going so well. So today we have the most important guest we've ever had on the Unmade Podcast. And that is the

true. Indeed. Because not only is she a national and international BBC newsreader, not only is she an acclaimed podcaster, that we'll get to that later, but she is also the mother of my child. Wow. Is that like- Hang on. That feels like you're breaking news right there. Are you aware of this?

And also your wife. I was getting to that. And my wife. Kylie Pentelow. When people say you're the mother of their child, that sounds like, you know, you're the baby mama, but you're actually not together anymore. That's what that sounded like. We are at this stage together. Yeah, ask us again in an hour.

Yeah. The main reason that we are recording with Kylie is that Tim is in the UK. Hello. Yes, I'm here. I'm in the room. We're all together here in Brady's office. I'm physically touching him. He's here in the UK. Hello. Yes, I'm here. I'm in the room. We're all together here in Brady's office. I'm physically touching him. He's here in the room.

Wow. That was nice. I feel like Jesus now. So, Tim is here. So, we thought it would be fun to do it with the three of us together because Tim's staying in our house. And also, Kylie wants to promote an excellent new podcast that she's been working on.

Yeah. We'll get to that later. You have to earn that promotion, though. Okay. I've been trying to get on this podcast for ages. Yeah. I didn't know that was part been working on. Yeah. We'll get to that later. You have to earn that promotion, though. Okay. I've been trying to get on this podcast for ages. Yeah. I didn't know that was part of the deal. Yeah.

That's the only reason why I'm here, Tim. I don't think I've heard. Which podcast is it? Well, we'll get to that later on. We'll get to that. Let's talk about that. We don't promote that until Kylie has earned her way by giving us some podcast ideas. Actually, Kylie does give this podcast a lot of ideas anyway. Yeah. Because we discuss it before.

Something that Brady does a lot is passes off my ideas as his own. Really? Yes. But he thinks that he doesn't, but he does. You're like an off-camera research assistant or silent producer. No, I'm thinking more First Lady. First Lady, right? The unmade First Lady.

Yeah. Is that for ideas for the end. The unmade First Lady. Yeah. Is that for ideas for the podcast? Are you actually doing other work? No, this is my to-do list, but there is one idea for the podcast. Kylie's looking at her phone already and we're like, how many minutes are we in? We're two minutes 40 and Kylie's already scrolling through her phone. Before we get to your ideas, it's traditional that one of us does an idea to like warm you up and sort of show you how it works. So even though you know how this podcast works.

A bit. A bit. We're going to do my idea for a podcast first. Okay. Why is it in the world of podcasting that the people that are nearest and dearest to the podcaster are the people least likely to listen to their podcast? Is that a universal principle you think or is it just our wives? I think it's probably universal because i

hear brady every day i don't need to listen to him in my downtime wow you are you are such a high that's a high level of patron support like marriage isn't it yeah did you do that with that in mind he's like if i married, I could listen to him every day. I don't quite think of it as that level of pleasure, Tim. I know other wives that listen to their husbands' podcasts. Really? I do know some, yeah. It's just ours that don't.

They probably say something about our podcast. It does, because if your podcast was like, you know, maybe interviewing other people who I found interesting or it was educational, then maybe I would listen more. Will you listen to this episode? Probably not. Oh. Do you know what? It's funny you should say that about interviews because my idea for a podcast that I want to share right now is an interview podcast idea. And my idea for a podcast is called the A to Z of interviews. And how this works is every fortnight, there's a new episode. So, you have 26 episodes a year, which is the number of letters in the alphabet. And each episode is an interview with someone whose first name starts

with a different letter of the alphabet. This is a good idea. Yeah. So, we have A, B, well, you guys know how the alphabet goes. We do. good idea yeah so we have a b well you guys know how the alphabet goes so but what so i mean that's a pretty that's just a pretty simple idea everyone can imagine it okay idea done but what i then did this morning was i sat down and i thought who would my first 26 guests be and my criteria for this little game is you can't think about it and be all careful and think oh yes i'd like this person that person. What I want you to do, and we'll get Kylie to do this,

is I want you to go through each letter of the alphabet, give me your interviewee, but your interviewee has to be the first person you think of whose name starts with that letter. You can't think, oh, no, I don't like them, I don't like them. So this is like a word association. You know that thing we sometimes say with animals where we go through and say, what's an animal starting with A, now B, now C? I want you to give me someone's name starting with A, B, all the way through the alphabet, and they're going to be your first 26 guests.

I like it. I did this earlier, so I've written mine down. So we'll go through mine later. Tim, you can sort of do it, Tim, but the problem is you're going to be so sullied by waiting for Kylie you might not be playing the game properly. But we'll give you a go afterwards. Would you like me to wait outside? You can stay. You can stay.

You can stay. Is your list first names or surnames? First names. Right. People's first names, not surnames. Go, Kylie. Who's your A guest? Aaron Wheeler.

I don't even know who that is. He is the boy who I chased around the playground when I was at infant school and I kissed him. You kissed him? On the cheek. First kiss. I was probably like five, yeah. And so it would be really interesting to hear where Aaron Wheeler is now. And who he's kissed since.

Yeah. So Aaron Wheeler. And whether he has a podcast that you listen to. Well, he doesn't have a podcast. B. Barack Obama. Obvious. I know him.

Hey, I don't have anything to do. Am I not playing at all? Oh, okay. No, I was going to get you to do your whole list afterwards. Oh,. Obvious. I know him. Hey, I don't have anything to do. Am I not playing at all? Oh, okay. No, I was going to get you to do your whole list afterwards. Oh, okay, okay. Yeah, yeah. Let's get Carly out of the way first. Yeah, because otherwise she'll start thinking ahead.

So that was your second kiss, Barack Obama. Only in my dreams. C. Keris Matthews. Oh, good one. Lead singer of Catatonia, presenter of radio shows. Oh, yeah. I love her music.

She's really cool. Keris Matthews. I like the way she says Scully. Yeah. Oh, I love that song. D. Oh. Don't think.

Delia Smith. Why does that come to my head? That's okay. It has to be the first name. That's Celebrity Chef Delia Smith in the UK. E. Enoch Powell. Oh, you're going pretty highbrow.

Do you want to tell people who Enoch Powell is? You'll find out when he's on this podcast. He was... No, he's not alive. Is he not? Oh, no, I meant to say there have to be people who are alive. Oh, well, let's scrap that then. Let's start E again.

You want E again? I can't think of an E. Come on. Eaglebird Humperdinck. No, Tim, you have to not say anything. Sorry, sorry. You have to not say anything. I should have gone outside, shouldn't I?

You should have. Oh, yes. I've got one. E.E. Cummings. Oh, nice, yes. Poet. Is that, are they still alive? No.

Oh, hang on, still alive. I can't think of an E. Tim, help me. No, come on. I already still alive? No. Oh, hang on. Still alive. I can't think of an E. Tim, help me. No, come on. I already gave you one E. I don't. He's not alive. Just think of Christian names that start with E and then just come up with, like, you know, any name.

Let me give you a first name, see if you can think of someone. Tim, I don't think you're understanding the part of this where you're not involved. I'm sorry. Esther Ronson. Oh, okay. Good one. I was going to say Esther, by the way. She hosted a show that I really liked as a kid called That's Life.

And now she's a campaigner for kind of children and things. Nice. And she's really interesting. Oh, you want me to go quickly, don't you? Yeah. Father John Misty. Okay. G.

Gordon Ramsay. Nice. Anothery. Okay. G. Gordon Ramsay. Nice. Another chef. Yeah. H. Harriet Harman is the first person to come to mind. And I meant to say, I think you should get double points if the first and last names start with the same letter. Oh, that's a good idea.

Okay. Harriet Harman, politician. I. Idris Elba. Nice. Excellent. Actor. Okay.

J. Josh Whittakam the comedian oh yeah funny oh yeah that'd be a good episode that would be

yeah okay Kay Kylie Pentelope just you oh I know could I interview Kirsty Antelope

which somebody described me as when they were describing me not very nicely so that's like my alter ego Kirsty Antelope so that would be kind of a weird like episode where you're having which somebody described me as when they were describing me not very nicely. So that's like my alter ego.

So that would be kind of a weird like episode where you're having a crisis. Like a meta kind of episode, yeah. Can I just ask you to say antelope again? Antelope. Oh, that's lovely. That's Tim's new ringtone. Carly Penteloe saying antelope. Okay.

What's after K? L? Who's an L? Oh, Lauren McNichol, my best friend. Shout out to Lauren. That would be a long episode. Trust me. Oh.

M. Mum. Oh, nice. Okay. Whose name also starts with M? Marion. Yes. Okay. Okay. Can I have Mum and Marjorie? Mum's best friend Marjorie. Oh, nice. Okay. Whose name also starts with M? Marion. Yes. Okay. Okay.

Can I have Mum and Marjorie? Mum's best friend Marjorie. Oh, yes. Because this would be the best podcast ever. Can we just have a sidebar here? Yes, yes. We've talked a lot about how Mum and Marjorie would be brilliant as a podcast. Right.

Their conversations are very interesting. Sort of a weird mixture of completely hypnotic and banal. Yeah. I'd love them to do a news podcast because it's all based on scraps of information they've extracted from Facebook and Madri read in the Daily Mail. my mum phoned me and she told me that boris johnson was gonna do something or other and um i and i'm a journalist newsreader i was in a newsroom at the time and i said oh where have you heard that from their mum and she said marjorie so it must have been true marjorie got it from facebook that's awesome so yeah mum and marjorie podcast would be amazing the marion and marjorie podcast would be an absolute smash it and Marjorie podcast would be an absolute smash hit.

N. Nigella Lawson. Okay. Why am I talking about chefs all the time? I'm not even bothered about food. O. O. That's an interesting letter.

I can see Tim's just like, I want to say something. Don't say anything. No. No. No. I'm just drawing the letter O in the air with say something. Don't say anything. No. No. No. I'm just drawing the letter O in the air with my finger. You can do that. It's just a bit of a prompt.

O. I can't think of an O. Can I give a little hint? Please. Please. How many times do I have to say that you can't give hints? I feel like it's Groundhog Day. I feel like you're about to pack up the microphones

because you're losing control of your game. Olly Murs. Olly Murs, singer. TV presenter, etc. He was a singer. He was on one of those singing shows. Yeah, but he also presented shows. Yeah.

P. I feel like you've had an advantage over this because you've had a chance to think about it. I did the same thing. I went through it in two minutes. I'm thinking Peter Haran. Okay. Excellent. Greatest dad. Very interesting man. I'm thinking Peter Haran. Okay. Excellent. Greatest dad.

Very interesting man. Q. Quentin Rayner. Okay. He's also a friend. Yeah, he's a- Hey, can I also say, he is the presenter of the Archers podcast. Very successful.

An Archers podcast. Like a fan pod- not the Archers podcast. An Archers podcast. A very successful fan Archers podcast. Yes. Yes. Yes. We'll link to it in the notes.

Where are we? Q. Ah. Roger Moore. Dead. Really? Yeah. How many times a day do you Google is dead?

A lot. Yeah. Roger Moore is dead. Yeah. That's a shame. He's a nice man. He was. Richard Curtis.

Nice. S. He was. Richard Curtis. Nice. S. See, I'm thinking of things and then I'm not saying them because I don't want to interview that person. No, that's against the spirit of the game.

Okay. Just be the first famous person's name you think of. Can I give a hint? Yeah. Please. No. Susan Sarandon. Excellent.

Double points. T. Tim Hine. No, Tim pointed to himself. You're actually out of the room. Sorry. All right. Tim's out of the room.

No, Tim's out. Out of the room. Too many hints. Tim Hine. All right. U. U. It's just Kylie and I now.

U. Who's a purse? What's her name again with you? That is a hard one. That took me a while. Ursula. She's dead, isn't she? She's dead.

Ursula Andrews is dead. I don't even know who I named. I can't even remember. I can't even ask Tim. No. I can't remember. Tim can't even draw the letter U in the air. Come on.

What name's beginning with U? Una. Una Stubbs. Oh, yeah. Well done. I done i'm not gonna explain why okay uh what's after u i forgot the alphabet t u v v v violet what little our friend's little baby that's the first person who came to mind. Okay. It should be famous people. Okay. Famous people. You said it's the first name that came to mind. V. Gosh, of course. Victoria Beckham. Okay.

Okay. W. William Hague is the first person who came to mind. Okay. Politician. Yeah. X. X.

Well, I mean, Zander is a name, isn't it? But I can't think of a famous person with that surname. No. What? So you'll famous person with that surname. No. So you'll have a holiday that week? Yeah, I'm going on holiday. Why? Yasmin Labon. Z?

Zoe Deschanel. Excellent. All right. That took me so much longer. It's because you were thinking too much. I think you were too... Yeah, you can come back in, Tim. That's the first time... Tim, I, Tim. That's the first time...

Tim, I needed you. That's the first time I had to kick someone out of the room. Tim was absolutely incapable of controlling himself. Tim, I'm going to let you do your 26. We're not going to stop and talk about them. We're going to go through them super fast. Take a seat. Right, here we go.

When I was out of the room, I had to deliberately stop myself thinking of names with letters. I had to blank my mind. Knowing you, I'm surprised you didn't. I would have imagined you just forgot we were recording a podcast. You just started reading a book or something. You went and got me recording. Okay, you're ready.

Let's go. Tim, A. Adrian Edmondson. B. Barack Obama. C. Colin Farrell. D. Dustin Hoffman. C. Colin Farrell. D.

Dustin Hoffman. E. I said Eagleberg before, so I'll go with that. F. Isn't he dead? Oh, maybe he is. Another E. Like Eggman from Batman?

Well, they can't be made up, can they? E. E. Kylie, give him a hint. Isn't it hard, Tim? Oh, when you get stuck on one. And also when there's microphones and recording. I literally couldn't think of anyone.

Esther was the one that came to mind. What's an Esther? Who's an Esther? Evil of war, who's dead. F-A-N-N-T, right? who's dead, N.T. Wright. That starts with an N. What are other names starting with E? E.

I will compress this in editing, by the way, so don't. Oh, yeah, it's going to be hell boring otherwise. Edward. Kylie, I can't kick the guest out. Brilliant, brilliant. Imagine that, having a guest on your podcast and kicking them out of the room. Yeah, it's different when it's your wife. Edward, your son Edward. Thanks.

Okay, F. Fred. There's a Fred I would interview. I was going to say Fred Perry. It's a clothing brand. Hang on, hang on. No, no, don't speak. Oh, I see.

Now he wants the rules. Come on, umpire, enforce the rules. I feel like I've got a million ideas now. No, I know, I know. That's the second season of your podcast. Oh, dear. That's year two. We'll do that next.

F. Fred Flintstone. That's the only other Fred I know. Fred. Fred used to live over the road. He's not alive anymore. Now I want to give clues. Oh my God. I'm going to kick myself out. There's got to be other names that

start with F. Phil doesn't. Philip doesn't. Philomena doesn't. We're already on F. Got an appointment at 2 o'clock Let me look up at the periodic table of elements Is there something that helps me? Fluorine

FD to clerk He's dead, isn't he? Oh, no, surely not Well, we can't be sure sitting here now without googling it I think he's dead, but alright You can go, you can't be sure sitting here now without Googling it, so. I think he's dead, but all right. You can go. You can do.

G. Grant Hackham. H. Hugh Laurie. I. This is a hard one. I struggled with I. Well, I'm thinking of Idris.

What's his name now that you've said him? Yeah. He's a cool looking guy. J. Jesus Christ I can't say he's dead to Tim, can I? Just had Easter for goodness sake K

K is Kylie Pentelow L Is Leo McGarry from the West Wing He's dead He is dead Even on the show he's dead Oh gosh Lauren Hill.

M. MacGyver. Michael Jordan. Oh cool, yeah. M. Nigel Mansell. O. Oh, I was giving you so many prompts on this before. Oscar Schindler. He's not around anymore. Oscar the Grouch from Sesame Street.

Can't you just have Sesame Street characters? Are there other Oscars? If you're an Oscar, please write in. Who else have we got? Oral Roberts is an old televangelist, but he's dead. I can't even say O.J. Simpson because he died last week. There's a lot of dead O people. Obi-Wan Kenobi.

Oprah Winfrey. There we go. Oh, that's a good one. Good one. That is a good one. Good luck getting her on the show. I'm stressed. P.

P. Oh, now all the Fs come in handy. I'm going to say Phil Gardner is a colleague at work. Q. Q. Quinton Edgell. R. R. Robert Smith. S.

Sam Seaborn. Who comes to mind? From the West Wing. That would have got you double points if it wasn't for the person. Simon Townsend. T. Tommy Bull. Tim.

No. Tom Hanks. Nice. U. U for a first name. Hard. One of the hard ones. What do I know?

Like an Ursula? No. Did I get this one? I was out of the room, so I don't know. Tim was on the naughty step. Oh, there's no other names. I don't know an Ursula, and I don't know any other names starting with U. Oh, golly.

Oh, Usher. V. V. V. Vicky Balabansky Another colleague Biblical scholar Just everybody works with Naming people around Adelaide

You can't check if they're dead or not But Vicky is I emailed her this morning Right Is alive I mean Is I don't email dead people Did she reply?

No Oh sorry Vicky. Marvellous person. W? William Wales. Oh, yeah. Where am I? WX.

X. Did you get this one? I think I took a holiday. Yeah. During the podcast. God, this podcast had a week off. Oh, really? Okay. Let's not take half an hour to do it then.

X. Yeah, I want to say Adriana Xenides, but that's the second. That's a surname. That's a surname. Isn't there someone Xander? Yeah, that's what I was doing. There's like someone who's, you know, hip name is. Yeah, exactly.

Cool person, Xander. We need more people starting with X in our lives. X, Xer. Who was that guy reading the news on Channel 10? Xer in the 90s, Brady and Adelaide. He's on my list. Oh, is he? That's what I did.

Xer, Xer, Xer. Gosh. the 90s brady and adelaide he's on my list oh is he oh gosh i think i might have to take a holiday as well why why is um yeah starting thinking of dutch names let's start with jay yolanda yolanda no yoko oh no nice oh good one does. Is she alive? Oh, yes. Yeah, she's alive. In the Dakota building. Yep. Yeah, she's still there. Okay. Zed. Zed.

Zadie Smith. Okay. Nice. Do you want to hear my list? No. Yes. So, I did a- As long as you do long pauses between each one and go, um, like we did.

So, I will say for context, I just wrote it on my phone lying in bed this morning. I was honest and did the first person I thought of. I didn't tweak it to make myself look clever or highbrow, but I didn't have the pressure of other people and microphones and recording. But it was very quick, and I'll tell you the ones I got stumped by. Here's my list. Adam Ant,

double points. Barry Glenn Denning, who's a football podcast host. Carol Vorderman, Darren Brown, Eric Roberts. I don't. Carol Vorderman. Derren Brown. Eric Roberts. I don't know any of these people. How do I know these are real people? Kylie knows them.

Kylie would call me out if there's one. Eric Roberts, brother of Julia Roberts. I don't know. That was the first person I thought of. An actor. Fern Cotton. George Bailey, Australian cricket selector. Harry Maguire, footballer.

Idris Elba. James Blunt, Kia Starmer, Lara Flynn-Boyle, Micah, Nina Hussain, Ollie Robinson, cricketer, Peter Harron, my dad. Q, if I'm being entirely honest, the first person I thought of was also Quentin Rayner, our former BBC colleague. But I sort of thought that might be cheating and I changed it to Quentin Ayres, writer of The Sofa Shop. Oh, of course. Rupert Everett, Simon Townsend as well. Did you really? Children's television host from our youth. Taylor Swift.

Oh, good. Usher. Vera Wang. Will.i.am. Xavier Minicon. Oh, yes, of course. Weather presenter from Australia from our youth. And last was Zendaya, that actress at the moment who's in Dune and everything else.

Oh, yeah. A to Z of interviews and a fun game to play. Oh, it is a good game. I like it. Dinner table game even. I feel really stupid now, though, because it took me so long. I will cut those bits out. People won't know. Oh, they'll think I'm really clever. Yeah though, because it took me so long. I will cut those bits out. People won't know.

Oh, they'll think I'm really clever. Yeah, it'll all be really witty better. Brilliant. And we'll pretend Tim was in the room the whole time. Okay. Sounds good. I think it's time for a podcast idea from you, Kylie. Okay.

Can I say before I pitch this to you that I don't listen to the podcast very often. I listen to bits of it that Brady shows me. Forces upon you. Mainly when he's talked about me to check that I'm okay with what he said about me, which is good. So, I'm saying that because you might have come up with this idea before. And if you have... Let me interrupt at this point that I am actually one of the hosts of this podcast and i have come up with ideas that we've already had on the podcast many times okay i don't feel so bad now no please don't okay so my

podcast is called irrational outrage and the reason why i had this idea is from a story that you told me the other day that apparently the people who make cornetto are thinking about getting rid of the little chocolate bit at the bottom of a cornetto ice cream so in the cone do you know do you have these oh yes yes we do not in the u.s okay so it's an ice cream with a cone that you buy in a packet in in the store and at the bottom of's an ice cream with a cone that you buy in a packet in in the store and at the bottom of it there's a little bit of chocolate and apparently brady told me they're thinking about getting rid of the chocolate no way that's ridiculous my god that was my reaction it's like what the and brady said yeah he'd read loads and loads of comments about it. So, it's those things that are small things, but you are irrationally

angry about them. And another example of this, now I know that recently, Tim, you have had the pleasure of sampling a cream tea. Indeed, yes. So, a cream tea, for those who don't know, it's a scone or a scone, whatever way you want to say it. And you cut it in half and you put cream and jam on it. Now, in the county of Devon, you put cream and then jam. And in Cornwall, you put jam and then cream. So, when I was working for a previous employer, I interviewed the Earl of Devonshire. And the story goes that his family came up with

the idea of a cream tea. So I asked him, okay, can you clear this up for me once and for all? Is it cream first or jam first on the scone? He said, it's cream first. Fine. I agree. That's exactly right. Cream is like the butter butter you put the cream on first then the jam on the top makes complete sense to me we we cut this clip up we put it on social media i've interviewed all sorts of people politicians you know but people who are very controversial this is the most controversial clip that had ever been put up so much so that they had to disable comments because the comments were so ferocious my goodness i cannot say them now because they used such terrible words describing this man i just can't remember because he doesn't know the letter it starts with

describing this man isn't you know it starts with a c yeah so cup So- Cup of tea. This is my story. So something that has got you very angry, but to other people it would seem small fry. So is there anything you can think of that you are irrationally outraged by? Can I just clarify? Because you're asking us to confess our own. So you do need to have a bit of perspective on yourself. You're not sharing from someone else. You might say, oh, you know, my friend got out.

You know, it's ridiculous how upset they got. No, I want people on this podcast to talk about their, it's kind of like Room 101, but it's talking about those key things that make you very angry. Yeah. I like this idea because it's like something that I've done a lot in podcasts in the past are like minor annoyances in life. But the thing that makes this special is it is something that should be a minor annoyance, but it's something that really like, yeah. Gets under your collar.

Makes you mad. I know one that makes Kylie incredibly angry. Yeah. I know a lot of them actually one thing that makes kylie irrationally angry is living with someone who leaves their toothbrush in the shower because i like brushing my teeth in the shower and sometimes i just leave my toothbrush on like the little shelf in the shower i've seen it yes yes i was going to talk to you about that actually i mean this does make me really angry.

Have you noticed that the toothpaste has got some writing on it, by the way, that Brady leaves in the shower? Oh, no, I didn't touch it. Okay. So he not only leaves his toothbrush, but toothpaste as well. So I said to him, if you continue to do that, I'm going to remove the toothpaste from the tube and I'm going to fill it with puppy poop from our little dog Winnie. Wow. And then when you put toothpaste on your toothbrush, it will be Winnie poop. I do look at the toothpaste, by the way, so that would not work.

So as a little joke, when he was away, I crossed out all the labelling on the toothpaste and wrote Winnie poop. Oh, yes. 100% poop. I didn't fill it with winnie poop because that probably would have been a step too far i would say yeah that would have gone beyond irrational that does that is something that causes me outrage but i guess with this idea i was thinking more like outside things that cause you outrage yes Yes, of course. And, you know, I think there would more be changes that happen. Yes.

That then you're like, what? They can't do that. You know, it's they that we're talking about. So, Tim, coming from Adelaide, is a perfect person to ask for this because Adelaideans are famous for being outraged by any attempt to change anything in Adelaide. Yes, indeed. Yes, it's an extremely parochial city at last.

They're like, oh, we're going to cut down this tree for some reason and they'll be, like, outraged and the state will grind to a halt, the media will go crazy, like, until whoever suggested any change has to, like, backtrack and say, I'm sorry, I should never have said it. I love it. I love that. There is a sense, I mean, I follow on Facebook a page that has sort of then and now photos of, you know, here's the streetscape in the 1800s and here's the streetscape now. And you go, oh, isn't that interesting?

You know, that lamppost has been there the whole time. But they're getting quite desperate, though, because there's like, here's one from the 1970s and now. And it's just exactly the same because this is Adelaide. Adelaide doesn't change. It's just black and white and that's colour. I can't see. I think it's the same guy walking down the road in the photo. It's ridiculous.

Can you think of anything, Tim, that- I can. I can. And in fact, it's not from Adelaide. It's many years ago. You know, I grew up in a little town, Tarelgan, and my father worked in the post office. And the post office in Tarelgan is sort of the only beautiful building in Tarelgan, basically. It's quite a gorgeous landmark right in the middle. And it's the picture that's on postcards of Tarelgan, you know, if there are any. And he worked there, and it's just always

there in my childhood. And I left Tarelgan 30 years ago. And I don't give it much thought, really. But during a federal election campaign a few years ago, a word came out of a local issue where there was a rumour that Australia Post were going to close the post office and it would be sold into something else or maybe even demolished. And I just suddenly felt incredibly angry, like activistly angry. And I started reading everything I could find on this issue. What's happening? They can't do this. And I felt quite emotional about it.

Are you going to go and chain yourself to it? I do. I felt like I wanted to go over and participate in saving it. It felt so – it was irrational because it came out of nowhere after so much time and I was surprised by how strongly I felt it straight away, immediately. But it was like, they can't. That's just so – that's my post office, you know.

That's my father's post office. So I know it's – now, so when you say irrational. That's – yeah, I'm not sure I would describe that as irrational because I understand that passion that as irrational because i understand that passion that you felt because it was your father's post office you know it's part of the history of that place so it doesn't it doesn't seem quite as trivial as a tiny piece of chocolate in the bottom of an ice cream cone sort of thing but i guess i'm thinking more trivial but i like i like where this is going because actually then you could get people on the podcast who, you know, would offer you the chance to talk a little bit about them, wouldn't it, and about their lives.

So, actually, that is a nice avenue for it to take. But when I was thinking of the idea, it was more about those things that you have no explanation for why you feel so passionate about it. The irrational part could be not just that, oh, you shouldn't be upset about that, but it could be like understandable, like the example that I gave, but the level of outrage you feel feels disproportionate. You might have a concern about it that's understandable, but it's like, hang on, I really am really quite upset about this. Yeah. So I've thought of mine. Okay. And I'm ashamed to say, now I think about it, I've really betrayed it already in the recording

of this podcast. So, you guys have me on toast now. Kylie will know this about me. Tim may know it about me. But my thing that makes me irrationally angry is when you're playing a game and like Monopoly or something like that, and people aren't following the rules properly or paying attention properly or playing the game correctly. And like, for that reason, I can't even play games. So, if we're like at a night out with friends and someone says, oh, let's crack out a game and play a game. I'm all for it. I say, you guys play a game, but I have to sit this out because if I'm playing the game and it's not being done right, it really like like you just get really angry for example say i came up with a game where people

had to say names without being given clues and one of the people playing the game was giving clues i could potentially become so angry that i would kick them out of the room even if they were a co-host of the podcast surely you wouldn't have control issues that next episode. No, no. So, I portrayed that trait very much so already in the recording of this podcast. I have a real, I get irrationally angry if a game's not being played properly. I can handle losing.

I don't like losing, but I can handle losing, but yeah. If you're playing something for fun, you know, Brady's just like nah i'm not i'm not in it's so funny though because in other situations you are the prankster the guy that sort of subverts the seriousness of a situation like you've talked before about being the jokester you know in like a i think it was a neonatal class or something like that where it was like oh yeah oh yeah i'm gonna be the one guy that kind of, you know, is the disruptor here. Yeah.

So that's funny that you take that role on some occasions. Yeah, it is. But you're totally intolerable of anyone else doing that. It is a weakness of mine. I mean, I could give you so many of these for you if we're talking about irrational outrage. I mean, you can't stand me eating a coffee. Yeah. I mean, I was going to come back to that. A coffee in your office.

It all comes down to food, actually. A satsuma in your car. You don't like the sound of me eating an apple. You know, it's like all this crazy stuff that you are. A lot of it is to do with food, but food in my space. Like if we're sitting at the kitchen table and you're having an apple or a satsuma or a cup of coffee, you know, great. But it's just if it's in my office or in my car and that I do have, yeah, like I think it might be smell related more. I don't know.

Like just the smell of the food. I don't know. I wouldn't say I get outraged by those things, though. Like it doesn't just i think both of us have that thing in common though where and this is going on a slight tangent from the podcast but where we feel the need to fight injustice particularly when it's happened to our family and we like neither of us will let that go for example my when my dad was alive they but he still was quite ill at that point but they planned a coach holiday just in england like a little coach holiday and he needed to have some extra

treatment for his cancer so they couldn't go and the coach company said oh sorry you're going to lose your money um and you that's it if you don't go you're going to lose your money um and you that's it if you don't go you're going to lose your money and to me that was just so terrible this isn't irrational this is just outrage and so we took to social media and various things to fight it and we won and so we have that very much in common that we don't those if there's and we can't neither of us have the ability to let that go that that outrage so i feel like sometimes i have to i have to tail my i have to kind of pull mine back a bit because i know that if i start firing you up you're going to be angry about it for ages like if something's making you angry that makes me angry yeah i don't like seeing you upset and

then i then i'll go to war as well yeah that's an interesting i feel like i want to unpack it we could have someone therapy session why you why you see even small things any breach of your boundaries as being an injustice or you know what i mean of there's a there's a you know oh yeah that's that's out of step with the way things should be and you send up i think also it's like I've got a good sense of right and wrong and when I feel like something is wrong, it's like the world needs to know that this person has done a wrong thing and particularly when it's a big company. But, yeah, so we have to not wind each other up about that.

Like Berkowitz Furniture, for instance. Oh, Berkowitz. Taking over the sofa shop. Yeah. Things. Yes. Well, let's end that idea now. It's an excellent idea.

There's lots of stuff there. One of the best we've had. Thank you. But it seems like a nice point to segue to Kylie promoting her other podcast. Oh, I completely forgot that I was going to do that. Yeah, well, what you talk about just then taps into it very nicely. So Kylie, well, Kylie has done a few podcasts over time. She does another one with me called Younglings

with another couple about parenthood. But that's not the one you're here to promote. No. So this one I started a few years ago ago now it's called the innocence podcast and it's about people who have been wrongly sent to prison and the the reason why i started this is because it came about in a really funny way do you remember i was on um this this quiz show called university challenge oh yeah i've heard it is that still around yeah oh yeah so i was the kind of i don't want to say celebrity it wasn't really at christmas they get people

with some profile to be like special guests rather than rather than brainy super brainy like university students they bring people to represent their old university. So I was on there representing the University of Sheffield. And on the panel with me was somebody called Claire Magorle. And we got chatting and she's a very prestigious law professor. Lawyer. She's also a lawyer um and she also runs this thing called the innocence project at the university of manchester now what you might not know is that when people are in prison and they say that they haven't committed the crime they can go through

an appeal process but once they lose that appeal process there's no other option for them apart from going to an innocence project and these are run by students and lawyers who give their own time i mean innocence project isn't this isn't like a part of the process it's not like it's not like it's enshrined in law that okay your only choice now is to go to an innocence project it's kind of like one of the last resort things you do you throw you ask can you guys help me like my lawyer my lawyer couldn't get me off maybe so it operates as like an NGO or a network of people doing pro bono services absolutely yeah there's only three of them in the UK if you're in prison you would write to them or email them and ask for their help.

And they get lots and lots and lots of emails, as you can imagine. And then they have to decide which cases they're going to take on. A lot of the time that's based on gut instinct, whether they think that they can actually help this person, whether there are avenues that they can go down to find solutions. And they'll look into their case and decide whether they're going to take it on. So I was chatting to Claire and we decided that it would be a really great idea to make a podcast about those people who had been wrongly imprisoned. And in it, I've spoken to people who have been in prison for decades and then come out, they often come out with nothing,

no help, no rehabilitation. And it's just really fascinating to me. I'm a journalist, but actually there was a point where I thought maybe I'd like to pursue law. I didn't do that. So I guess this is my way of pursuing that passion. So if people go and listen to some episodes, which you'd better do, otherwise I'm going to get in really big trouble. So go and have a listen, people. If people go and have a listen, there'll be links in the description and that sort of stuff, or just search the Innocence podcast on your pod player. What kind of things are they likely to hear? What do like typical episodes sound like? They're generally with people talking about why they were sent to

prison in the first place, what it was like when they were in prison. I'm always really interested to hear what it's like as an innocent person in prison when pretty much everyone would say that they're innocent and sent to prison. And then the other thing that I find very interesting is what it was like when they came out because so many of them have no family anymore. Their family has left them. They don't have any money, any skill. Often they'll sleep on their lawyer's floor because they've got nowhere to go. One person I spoke to had never used a mobile phone before.

And when he got into the taxi to go home from prison, he was really scared because he hadn't travelled at speed before. from prison, he was really scared because he hadn't travelled at speed before. He didn't know how to open a door because doors had always been opened for him in prison. So, it's just some of those things that are just absolutely fascinating. I spoke to a woman who was on death row in America and for a long time, I think it was over 10 years that she was on death row. And she talked about the absolute fear of hearing any noise because she didn't know when she was going to be executed. So that fear of it could have just been somebody bringing her her food, but every single time the panic. So I just find it absolutely fascinating. I also speak to some of the people who helped free them, how they did it, the process of that. And this series that's

coming up, I've got some absolutely amazing people on it. So yeah, it's kind of crime, but for me, it's just those people who have got incredible stories to tell about how their life took a terrible turn because of being sometimes in the wrong place, wrong time, or the legal process letting them down. It's all sorts of reasons. Good stuff. I've listened to this. I've listened to an episode, and this is fantastic. Really interesting. And I want to go back and listen to it now,

having listened to you talk about it like this as well and what's coming up. There's a lot to it. I obviously have listened to them all because I do listen to my wife's podcasts. What a wonderful partner you are. I'm good. I'm also involved with uploading them and stuff. I have to say there's lots of layers to it, lots of stuff going on. It's worth a listen.

My favourite parts of the podcast, the ones that seem to stick in my mind, are often to do with the moment they're released, the moment they're freed. I always find, wasn't there one guy who went into his backyard and just hugged a tree? And another woman who got let out and just ran around the block and just ran and ran and ran. And then suddenly she found herself back at the entrance to the prison because she'd run around the block and she was trying to get back in because she didn't know what else to do yeah yeah i mean it's

it actually makes me feel really emotional you're just talking about that because the person you're talking about peter died recently and it's you know yeah he just he wanted to go in the ocean and hug a tree you know it's like it's those really really simple things that you don't think about separately there was no tree in the ocean yeah often the lawyers will say that food is a motivation when you come out of prison that they want they you know they might want to go and get a burger or something. But it's absolutely overwhelming to see a menu. So it's impossible for people to choose a food because they haven't had that choice. They were given what they were given. So to go somewhere and things like I've heard people going into a shop and seeing a huge amount of deodorant and thinking, I can't make this decision, it's too much. So, yeah, it is

really interesting and emotional for obvious reasons. Can I ask a question then? Do all the episodes follow through a story where the person has finally had another appeal and been proved innocent, declared innocent, and then you interview them or you tell the story afterwards. Is that right? Yeah. There's no one on the podcast who is currently in prison at the moment who is going through the appeal process. There are cases that I'm following with that, but particularly with restrictions in the

UK, it's very difficult to speak to people who are currently in prison at the moment. And it's quite sensitive because, of course, there are victims' families involved in this. So, it's quite difficult for me to pursue that line, although that is something I'd really like to do. I have to be very careful thinking about the victims' families that we're talking about because someone has been imprisoned. And also someone has committed the crime, just not that person. Absolutely. But that is something I would like to do. But generally, yes, all of the people who have been through this, who are on the podcast, are people who have now been released and are able to talk about it. One thing that is often quite tricky with this podcast is people who have

recently been released are very hard to arrange a specific time to interview them because again, they haven't had to schedule their own time. So it's kind of a bit of a sensitive path. But then there's lots of other episodes about, you know, how we can make things better. Compensation. Compensation. Yeah, the ones that really get me are those stories, the emotion of the people who have been through this and come out the other side. It sounds like many of the people have been in prison for a considerable amount of time before they are found to be innocent.

I mean, almost always, because it just takes so darn long. Well, I think the shortest one is actually Amanda Knox, who, you know, who is a friend now. She was in prison for seven years. Is that right? Or four or seven? I can't remember, but we'll correct that. It's unthinkable the angst you'd feel.

You know, that sense of, you talk about before, you know, the sense of outrage before that we were talking about and going, oh, this is wrong. Imagine feeling that about something that's not trivial. It's like, oh, gosh, I've got the wrong smell in my place or something like that. It's like I've actually been taken out of my entire life and put in prison.

And I seriously, I know everyone says they didn't do it. I didn't do it. I just didn't do it. Imagine that. And for the extended amount of time must be just a profound level of trauma and angst for them. And then finally to find some vindication. Yeah. I mean, it's the absolute loss of control, isn't it?

Yeah. And it's why so many people then become experts in the law while they're in prison. I mean, that is something. I'm interviewing somebody in the future while they're in prison. I mean, that is something. I'm interviewing somebody in the future who did that exact thing. And lots of these people then go on to work with the Innocence Projects that I was talking about to help other people. Yeah. And you can understand why, because if you've been in that situation,

you just want to help others. The Innocence Podcast, you surely want to listen to that now. Surely. Go and check it out, people. Search for it. Links. All that stuff. So Kylie has more ideas.

We might do more podcasts with her later if she'll come back on. But for people who want to have even more dirt dished on me, we are going to go to the request room now for Patreon supporters. I'm looking forward to this. Yes. So some of the Patreon supporters have got questions for Kylie that she will attempt to answer. And I don't think I'm going to enjoy this.

But I will tolerate it for the patrons. So go to patreon.com slash unmade FM to find out more. Again, links below. And we're off to the request room for our post-show wind-down and evisceration of Brady. I'm looking forward to it.