The Unmade Podcast - 148: A Couple of Duds

Episode Date: August 23, 2024

Tim and Brady discuss the number 148, guardian angels, social groups, visiting a British KFC, skippable things and a couple of of duds.Don’t miss the accompanying Request Room - https://www.patreon.com/posts/110636975Support us on Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/unmadeFMJoin the discussion of this episode on our subreddit - https://www.reddit.com/r/Unmade_Podcast/Catch the podcast on YouTube where we often include accompanying videos and pictures - https://www.youtube.com/@unmadepodcastUSEFUL LINKSNumber 148 on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/148_(number)148 Angel Number on a weird website: https://www.sosyncd.com/the-meaning-of-the-148-angel-number/Dunbar’s Number: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar%27s_numberBruce Springsteen’s Tunnel of Love: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunnel_of_Love_(album)Catch the bonus Request Room episode - https://www.patreon.com/posts/110636975

Yes it's just started raining it's been threatening to all day and now it's finally come down which is if you're not recording a podcast so beautiful and pleasant and lovely and cozy inside. I hope it's a lovely ambient sound in the background and not a noise ruiner. I've been telling Tim off a little bit lately for a few audio issues so he's just covering his butt there if there's any problems in the background it's not Tim's fault it's God's fault. That's right that's right. Tim this is episode 148. That sounds like a lot doesn't it. It does sound like a lot. 148 times we've done this.

More more really this is the 148th one that has a number. Oh there's a specials too aren't there and specials we've done this. Well more really, this is the 148th one that has a number. Oh there's the specials too aren't there and the ones we've made and wow, golly gosh. But 148 is the number today and so I was thinking, do you know what, let's find a few little bits of trivia about the number 148, would you like to hear a little bit of 148 trivia? Is there any 148 eight trivia seems pretty arbitrary. You're talking to Mr number file here so I can make anything of any number but it's the second number to be both heptagonal and centered heptagonal what does that mean. I won't I won't even boy what that means. What can't we hang on now you can't just bring something up and say oh you wouldn't understand.

Can't just bring something up and say you wouldn't understand. Basically imagine a bunch of dots and turning them into a Heptagon with Rose and things like that you make the shape of a Heptagon a seven sided figure and you need you need a hundred and forty eight dots and it's kind of like in that kind of realm it's not that important. Okay now I understand. There are 148 perfect graphs with six vertices there and there are 148 ways of partitioning four people into subsets ordering the subsets and selecting a leader for each subset. The Brady fans are really going off at the moment. Okay okay okay let's get one for your flock. The Book of Nehemiah. There are 148 singers, sons of Asaph at the census of the men of Israel upon return from their exile. This, of course, differs from Ezra, where the number is given as 128.

Gosh, wow. But you already knew that, didn't you? I knew there was a return from exile. I didn't know that That's about all I knew who were the sons of Asaph. I have no idea. Oh come you call yourself Christian Yes The litmus test for being a Christian isn't knowing facts about Old Testament prophets No, I was looking I also wandered into some website which I would not describe as Christian. I would describe it more as a bit spiritual and supernatural and personality types and

zodiac and all that sort of stuff, if that's what you're into. And according to this site, the number 148 is an angel number. And if you start seeing seeing the number 148 a lot like on your odometer or you look at your watch and it says 148 and things like that you start seeing the number everywhere that might mean your guardian angel is trying to communicate with you. Oh wow I wonder if that's something that has a deeper root in mythology. I wonder if that's something that has a deeper route in mythology beyond this weird website you've looked at you know what I mean. Yeah I couldn't I couldn't get through all the dense text to get to why 148 was the number being used by my guardian angel maybe it relates to that. Book of Nehemiah thing and the sons of Asaph and the 148 singers I don't know. There is some there is some sort of cool angel mythology like like traditionally angels are said to speak German. Which is which is kind of really interesting as well but that has not so much about it clearly it doesn't have a biblical basis but what does it mean what is the angel number 48148 mean I'm just consulting my brain here. I'm just consulting my brain here the angel number one forty eight is believed to be a message from a divine realm that symbolizes manifestation abundance and perseverance. Yeah but why one forty eight maybe it comes back to the heptagon.

Give us the seven because that's seven sided and seven is you know. The perfect number heavenly and yeah maybe it's a derivative that this seems to just interpret numerology rather than having like it's history and etymology which is the kind of facts we like. I got in angels a thing what do you mean are they a thing. Like what do you believe in them don't do we have no like we don't have like specified guardian angels like our kind of secret service agent. guardian angels like our kind of secret service agent. To my knowledge no there's nothing in the Bible that talks about everyone being given like a guardian angel that is a sentimentalizing of you know the notion of angels in the Bible are messengers, messengers from God and they're a thing but if there is a God there's no reason why there wouldn't be angels and that they wouldn't have particular roles but if you saw an angel you just about crap yourself like it's not like a cupid or a guardian in that sense.

And you wouldn't be able to hide it from the angel too because I imagine they would have the power to know that you just crap yourself. I don't know if they have those sorts of knowing powers it's all very. Okay so you could just sort of wiggle uncomfortably and they wouldn't know what had just happened. Well, I mean, if you were going to I would know if someone in front of me was wiggling uncomfortably, wouldn't I? But you don't have to be an angel to work out that someone's awkward talking to you. But you wouldn't necessarily know that I'd crapped myself. No, no, you wouldn't know that. I don't know if they have sort of effluent knowledge. But can they even smell can angels smell.

I don't know what are my favorite films is wings of desire which tells the story about in black and white of these two angels and one of them wants to become human and when he falls off a building and becomes human the film becomes color and you know he's able to see in colour because he gives up being an angel and so there's no. Angels are colour blind I never knew that. Yeah it's just sort of I don't know if it's just a cinematic device but it's something that certainly you know happens you give up things that people that humans aspire for to get the things that humans want and I think things like taste and smell and all that are maybe part of that. I don't quite understand why if God is omnipresent and all powerful. He needs angels. Like like why does he need someone to do tasks for him he can do everything be everywhere and do everything all at once.

Yeah but maybe he doesn't want to he does do a lot of things. Yeah but maybe he doesn't want to he does to a lot of things. I mean I could choose to deliver a package but I could also have a career like. Yeah but you'll but you do that because you have finite time and finite resources God is not constrained in that way. No I know they are look angels what do we know about angels this is we know that they created being so they're not a tunnel like God the understanding is that they were created so they are it talks about humanity is being a little less than the angels so they have sort of a higher sent in a sort of being notion to them but not but not God like. Also angels are above us on the picking order. on the picking order. Yes, in terms of their abilities, they're part of the supernatural world rather than the physical world in that sense, whereas Christ became part of the physical world. That's the miraculous thing. God actually decided to be human.

The what else do we know about angels? We know that they have a particular role as messengers like heralds in the in the in the old greek and roman times a herald was a person from the army that would go in you know the take the king's message and deliver it to the other king saying he wants to attack you now and would go back and angels have that you know the herald angels sing that's like they have a herald message. Can i tell you what i'm feeling i think it's all. Affection right yes you know yeah but if it wasn't if if God's real. I think angels are still a fiction I think angels are human construct use to explain like used to tell the story of God. something God wouldn't need but help humans understand like you know you're using the analogy of heralds and armies and things like that and it's a way of helping humans understand. Stuff they can't understand. Yes they are like and even the name angel is the word that we've come up to describe something that happened so you think about let's say you say I've got real he would have done it himself how like to how would God communicate to someone and you would say well God might speak through their dreams yes he does that or he might speak through a like a physical event like a burning bush or a storm or you know yes he does that or through a rainbow well yes he did that.

Great big dude with wings. Yes that's right yeah well I think a big a great big dude with wings is of course medieval art putting something onto what's described as a messenger in the Bible. So the Bible doesn't say that Gabriel or Michael had wings. I think it does in the apocalyptic literature so the book of Revelation it goes into those sort of descriptions but remember the book of Revelation is symbolic language so it also talks about. when it's actually referring to Caesar Nero coming back and it talks about beasts and it talks about elders in the throne room. So it's using deliberately metaphorical language, which would have been totally understandable to the Jewish people at the time. So we take that and we run with it and then we look at an Iron Maiden album cover and then we look at a medieval painting and then we look at a film and and then we look at a film and we go, oh, this is what an angel looks like. But actually the Bible speaks of them

being messengers and that might be a way of God speaking a message to someone with a sense of his presence in an event that's blinding light or through a person and you can go with that what you will. But I think it's not as easy as saying well this is made up creature that flies down and talks to people I don't think we're trying to find the Bible try to find a way to speak about something real happening that you write ever since we load all sorts of other. Images and cultural baggage onto. I have a Christian family member who claims to have once seen an angel. They referred to it like as their angel, not like a guardian angel, but an angel in the room with them. And it was a man wearing a plain brown suit. And in fact, that family member referred to the angel as Mr. Brown. Right. Well, and if that's helpful for them, then that that's great it's actually more of a dark blue suit but they were close and so will count that. No wings just a brown suit.

Yeah yeah yeah the last thing the Bible does talk about angels turning up in terms of. People in other words people will come into your life you know you talk about driving down the road your car breaks down you pull over on the goodness what's going to happen suddenly someone appears who happens to have the very thing you need for your car you turn around to thank them and they're gone again. People talk about experiences like that and that kind of experience is described in the Bible that is you know when you've been kind to people particularly who are strangers from far away and it talks it says you may not have known it but you were entertaining angels. So there is that notion of someone turning up and then you know what I mean you thinking there and this is actually a really beautiful idea because you don't just welcome someone who looks favorable but let's say you welcome a refugee or someone from another culture or someone other people are scared of and you go the extra mile to be hospitable and welcoming and you didn't know it but actually in you know what I mean you were entertaining angels that's kind of a.

It was far more significant than you even imagined. Has it ever occurred to you that I might be an angel. No you might be a very flawed angel like. Deep undercover. To be fair though I've never thought of you as a demon either though so that's you know. What was that TV show about the angel you know that guy the guy that was in the house on the prairie was almost an angel or Michael Langdon yeah Langdon. Landos land Michael land. Oh no no no highways to heaven or something. Highway to heaven that's it.

Highway to heaven. Yeah. I loved that show. I did too. He was just a normal dude. He was an angel. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Just walk around. There's a John Travolta movie, Michael as well, which is one of the sort of crapper John Travolta movies of which they're quite a few amongst a few. Anyway, Tim. Yeah. I feel like sometimes I'm a podcast idea machine. Right. No matter where I look or what I do or what I think about, there's just a podcast just comes into my

head. I can't help it. Maybe it's my unmade training, but it's just who I am. Maybe it's your guardian angel. You've been fed ideas, man. Maybe while I was doing this one 48 research, I found another fact about one 48, which I think you will find very interesting and has given me an idea for a podcast. And that's going to be my idea today for the show. Yep. First, let me tell you the fact. The fact is that the number 148 and forty eight is known as done bars number who is done by right here you ask who is done by. Okay he was a his name is robin done by he was a british evolutionary anthropologist and he was looking at things like the size of human brains and monkeys and all this sort of stuff and he decided that 148 was the maximum number.

You could have in like your social group your circle of acquaintances beyond which point. You kind of lose the ability to function effectively and have social relationships and know who everyone is and how everyone's interrelated. It's kind of like the maximum number of people you can be acquainted with and know. And in common parlance, most people use the number 150 for that number now when talking about this particular area of research. But his actual number was 148 148 and he it was broken down a bit more that the feeling was you could have five intimate friends. Right. 15 good friends including the five intimates. Yep.

50 friends and then you go up to this 148 for acquaintances. Yep. So it's the number with two plus ones. up to this 148 for acquaintances. Yep, yep. So it's the number of people. With two plus ones, that's right. Two of those people bring their new boyfriend along or something like that. There, hence the 150. Yeah, a couple of plus ones. Just in case someone comes to the wedding who wasn't expected.

That's right. So anyway, there's a lot you could talk about here. There's conflicting research as well. There are other numbers. There's a, there's a Bernard Kilworth number, which could be about 231. I've also seen 290. I've seen lower numbers. I've seen higher numbers, but the number, um, one 50 or one 48, whichever you prefer the Dunbar number, uh, is probably the most famous it was made particular famous in Malcolm Gladwell's book, Tipping Point.

Oh, okay. Yeah, which put it into the, so I've got, by the way, this is like, I don't often talk about my other, well, I do talk a bit talk about my other projects. All the time. Okay, thanks. You mentioned Numberphile earlier. Yes, true. I was reading the Wikipedia page about Dunbar's number. And you know how they have on a Wikipedia page, they'll have like uses in popular culture of this topic and stuff. So I was thinking, oh, where's Dunbar's number being used in popular culture?

I'm really interested. And it had, you know, Malcolm Gladwell's book, Tipping Point, and it had a couple of other references. And then it said, episode 103 of the podcast, Hello Internet features Brady Haran and CGP Grey discussing the reasons. And I was like, I'm on the Wikipedia page about Dunbar's number. And I seriously have zero recollection whatsoever of having spoken about it, having known about it. And I was like reading this page thinking this is fascinating. I never knew this. And then on the very page, I'm quoted as someone who's spoken about it. So, so for those of you who are saying, Brady, you've talked about this before.

Uh, I, I know I have, but I have no recollection of it whatsoever. That's fantastic. So this is a fresh conversation for me. What are your thoughts Tim? When I say this to you, this number, do you have any feelings or thoughts? Oh I like that. The way I think about that is in relation to the church, this notion of how many people can be part of a community. And there's an idea that says that local church congregations kind of over time, if they're not renewed, and if new people

don't become Christians and all of that, then they settle into a certain size that's around everyone feels they need to know everyone. And it's really hard to then come in if that if it sits like that too long at atrophies, and people feel like going to church is something where they should know everyone. And then it's really hard for the church to grow beyond that because it becomes so domestic, you know what I mean? New people feel like they're breaking into something that's a bit too formed, there's not open, it's not absorbent enough and so that's a really interesting idea like that. And is that number around 150 or? I always think of

it, the stat that I have in my head which I've no doubt read in a book somewhere was 80 people in that you should know in it. And you can generally know about 80 people. Now that might be through your primary community. Like that might be, you might know 80 people through it. Like if you belong to a church or another sporting club, you're automatically gonna know more people than you would if you didn't, you know what I mean? Like you, if you go to work and come home and live your life,

it may not be 148. If you belong to a and come home and live your life it may not be a hundred and forty eight. If you belong to a third place community you know that's not home or work that's like a cricket club or a football club or a church or community group will immediately that expands it and it and it makes it a little bit more dynamic. Yeah yeah so it's interesting it's interesting it's interesting you say that because if you read a bit more about dumb bars number. A number of businesses have actually taken this into account and they deliberately make the size of their workplaces their offices or their open space offices in that about a hundred and fifty. Like it's actually being used in the design of I don't know what the word is for designing workplaces and communities but they they use this as well they think if you have an office that has more than a hundred and fifty it starts to cause problems so. But they use it they're using it as a positive thing whereas when you talked about it with the church it was almost a bit more new people and bless new people. It should never be looking inwards. It should always be looking outwards. So you want to get people into the mindset that they don't have to know everyone at church. You know what I mean? That they're part of a dynamic multiple series of smaller communities that might actually grow and expand. Yeah, they don't need to exercise control. It's funny or mental control over who's that

person or I didn't know that person. They just need to be like it's the difference between, I think, living in Adelaide and living in Melbourne. Like living in Adelaide, I walk around with a little bit of an expectation that I'll probably bump into someone. Or if I bumped into them, if I met a stranger, it would be one or two persons. Maybe, you know, kind of we could find a point of connection somewhere is what I'm saying. That's kind of you though.

Just to be clear for everyone listening, Adelaide is a big city. How many people live in Adelaide? One and a half, two million? I don't know. Yeah, one and a half or two million. Yeah. So it's a lot of people, but Tim does bump into someone he knows everywhere he goes in Adelaide.

I do not. I think this is more you than you than me. Okay. Well, so maybe it's an illustration of my mindset, but when I'm in Melbourne or someone else, I give up that expectation. I don't I walk around not thinking you think about myself as a small part, small fish in a big pond, whereas other times you go, Oh, who else is in my pond? There's a sense of familiarity or something about the size.

When I started thinking about this, I started thinking about this number 148, 150. There was also a school of thought, of course, that the advent of social media has kind of skewed this number a bit. But let's, we don't need to go there. But I was wondering, does 150 sound about right? Do I have 150 acquaintances? Could I name 150 people? I meanances could I name a hundred and fifty people. I mean I could name more than a hundred and fifty people but you know who I would consider acquaintances and it's kind of sounded about right to me like and then I thought no Tim's had been way higher than that though like Tim would go to Tim ago way higher than that but it did you know like it's a hundred and fifty is normally aim for like for Facebook friends and things like that But well, I know what how where does that number sound like to you? I think it sounds about right I actually wonder if they use that number on the algorithm of Facebook in that you might be I'm friends with I don't know Like a thousand or a few thousand people on Facebook, but they don't a few thousand people don't evenly rotate through my feed So maybe they go well, hang on every, every person, you know what I mean?

That there maybe is generally 150 and maybe there's a smaller lot that comes through again and again, I don't know. So they might use it in that sense. I'm trying to think of an event where you would be able to use it to categorize. So let's say you're having, you know, like an intimate dinner. Okay. That's your five, right? Then what event would have the 50? What you said there was about 50 at the next band out, is that right? Yeah, 50 friends.

50 is the next number, yep. And then there's 15 and then there's five. Oh yeah, okay. Yeah, so there's like 50 friends, 15 good friends, and then five intimate friends. So 15 good friends, it'd be sort of, you can imagine a getaway or some sort of party dinner party trip Yeah, that kind of thing

The 50 is probably the funeral You know like that's I think a hundred and fifties the funeral it depends how young you are I think 50 yeah, of course. Yeah, if they're alive 50 I think is maybe the wedding because then you've got the plus ones and the course if they're alive 50 I think is maybe the wedding because then you've got the plus ones and the family members you kind of have to ask and stuff so maybe 50s because you don't ask all your acquaintances to your wedding but maybe 50s you. Yeah interesting interesting I think I think a hundred and fifty is the tragic funeral and I think the 50 is the end of life funeral if I can put it in terms does that make sense okay yes anyway so podcast idea when I started looking at this. My mind just went to podcast ideas how could this be an unmade podcast idea and the initial idea I had was a 148. Episode series where you interview each of your acquaintances.

My 148 acquaintances and you talk about each one like that would be quite a quite you'd have to have a pretty compelling host because if you said to me you know I want to tell you about. 148 people I know I'd be thinking alright that sounds pretty boring if you had a compelling funny host or you know, like a comedian or someone really good. There's a few things that immediately come to mind. I want to jump in on here because I think one of the rules needs to be that none of the people are allowed to hear an episode that one another person's done. They need to come in fresh. Otherwise they're going to do well. It's pretty much like everyone said, he's, you know, a nice guy and he really loves, you know, tennis. Oh, no, no, I wasn't. I wasn't thinking the acquaintance. I wasn't thinking the acquaintance talks about the host. Oh, I think the host introduces the acquaintance. So each episode is a new person. It's not, it's not now he is yet another person talking about Tim from their

perspective, because that would be quiet. That would be that. I think that would be a little bit. Yeah I think it's more hi I'm you know hi I'm Brady this week I want to introduce you to. Bill Smith who I know through the chemistry department at Nottingham and he's been doing chemistry for 20 years and he's got a lovely family and today I want to tell you all about him. That's a great next week on next week I want to tell you about my friend Jim who I play tennis with. Yeah he just call it my friends yeah that's right or my circle or my one for you that's that's a really great. My 148 acquaintances today number 73 Jane Doe. They're not surely in order you don't have to rank them that.

No we're gonna build up to number one. them that that no we're gonna build up to number one. No but here's the other here but speaking of which here's the when I told my wife I was thinking about this as a podcast idea just before she went off to to work today she refined it to an even better idea so I don't know whether you want to use the five intimate friends or the 15 good friends maybe the fifteen good friends right and this is this is more along the lines of desert island friends we so often talk about the radio show desert island disks here on unmade where a guest comes on the show they choose five or six songs five or six of their favorite. Yeah they talk about each one and then at the end they're required to choose one they said they say okay there you seven songs you taking to the desert island but if you could only take one of the songs which would it be so there is like a moment at the end where you really refine down to what the number one song is so I like the idea of my fifteen good friends that I would take with me onto the desert island. And then at the end, the host says, all right, now you got to take, now you can only take one. Who's it going to be? And to be fair, that's not necessarily saying this person's my best friend. It's just the person that I'd want to be stuck on a desert island with. And that gives me two different things.

So, for example, I'm sure you would take me in your 15 to a desert island, Tim I'm not sure you'd want me just me for the rest of your life in a desert island. So I might want someone a bit more handy I don't know yes yes true you're all less irritating. Yes of course one of the rules in this you can't take your partner that that that's you know I take them off the board right now. So that was a good idea to desert island friends but I think you know this messing with this notion of circles of friends acquaintances sizes of circles of friends I think is good it is good and it plays into that childhood game of you know you're always analyzing who your friends are and best friend in this bracket. Yeah that list yeah one to ten. The next time you have to really commit to that I think is the wedding because you do have a best man and a groomsman and you know that kind of there's a small band there that's involved. small band there that's involved. Yes, there's the hierarchy.

Yeah. And then and then who gets to like read a speech and who gets to witness the signatures and stuff. So there is like a sort of pecking order. Yeah. Yeah. It brings to mind things like siblings, though often a person might have their brother. So are you able to include siblings or maybe maybe they're put in the same category as a partner where you might put them to one side or you could I think the older you get. You either are close friends with a sibling and not so much with others and I don't know I don't have any sort of close siblings like that I have siblings who are much older. I think choosing like your brother as your best man but not having a brother I can't comment too much on it and I can see why one would do it of course but I also think it's a really clever move in a safe option because it does take away that hole having to choose between friends. Problem yeah yeah that's right yeah but for instance Prince William right he had his brother as his best man and I'm not sure he'd take him to the desert island right.

I don't think you'd have a wedding right now. Anyway this is a really good idea this is a really great idea yeah. There's lots of stuff there lots of good stuff there I like that series like you know my hundred and forty eight acquaintances all my fifty friends or my 15 best friends my five intimate friends who knows. You could start doing one and then cut it down like I remember when I think it was Obama had his 50th birthday during the COVID time and they invited 300 people and then the rules changed on the COVID regulations and he could only have a hundred so he had to uninvite 200 people to his 50th birthday and there was a whole thing about people that were sort of, you know what I mean, one minute had all the status in the world, but then suddenly realised they were in the two thirds. You know, not in the... It's like I've been disinvited by Obama and it's like, oh, jeez Louise. And Pearl Jam was playing, you know, it was an amazing party apparently. And pill jam was playing, you know, it was an amazing party apparently, but. Maybe we could make a special, you know, how we do the request room and all the Patreons

get to listen to that. Maybe we could do a next tier request room and we just choose 148 patrons who we want to listen to it, send it to them individually. 148 favourites. Wow. Like arbitrarily or like a level of patron support or you mean just totally we choose them or just pick out the ones we like. I don't know what do you think do you have a favorite patron do you have five favorite patrons. Talk talk talk Jeff comes to mind.

Is he still Jeff? Is he still Jeff? I don't know. Is he still Jeff? I don't know. We've got some Jeff and told Jeff. I know some Jeff is a patron because we've got a request. We've got a question from him in the request room today, but. I think Micah is a favourite. He's a definite favourite. Micah. Yeah, he's a good, he's a good patron. Every time I've met him, he's been wearing an unmade t-shirt. Respect. Yes. Yes, that's right. Legend. an unmade t-shirt respect. Yes, yes, that's right. Legend. OK, it's time for Tim in England as we go as we jump into the DeLorean, hit 88 miles per hour and go back to Tim's visit to the UK earlier this year.

And in this particular episode, Tim and I are on a drive, we're on the motorway and we pull into a motorway services place where you stop to eat and we go to KFC. Tim in England. We're both pretty hungry, so we're going to go for some motorway KFC. That's dirty as it gets. So just to be clear, the fact we're hungry is the primary reason we're doing this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So there's a subway here, a Starbucks, a WH Smith, which will sell magazines and sweeties and drinks.

It's interesting comparing the kernel at a proper KFC and then one where this is like a leased outlet as a part of a collection on the side of the road. Yeah, because it hasn't got its own building, it's not a true KFC and then one where this is like a, you know, least outlet as a part of a collection on the side of the road. Yeah, what, because it hasn't got its own building, it's not a true KFC, if it's not completely self-contained. I'm not saying it's not a true KFC, it's just my expectations in terms of quality aren't quite as high. Yeah, I know, I agree with you.

I feel like it is, I feel like it is not like top tier if it's part of this food court almost. And I'm sure they're not like taxing it in from a proper shop somewhere else. I think they're actually making it here. It's legitimate. But here we go. All right here we go. Eat in. You're gonna order yours separately? Yeah yeah. Tim's ordering his. We've gone to these uh. What am I gonna have? I'm gonna have. Massive touch pads order now. I'm gonna have a Zinger burger. Tim's over. We're gonna eat in, yeah? Yeah, eat in. So Tim's over ordering. Um, okay, what do we have?

Now I am feeling today like a Zinger burger. Gosh, there's a lot of burgers here. Zinger stacker? That's going a bit far. I'm gonna have a Zinger burger, make it a meal. We're basically having the same thing, but I've done mine as a meal-do and you've broken yours into its constituent parts. make it a meal. We're basically having the same thing but I've done mine as a meal deal and you've broken yours into its constituent parts. Is it a significantly different amount of money?

Yeah, you're paying about two pounds more. Let's do this. That's your chicken, that's my chicken. What piece did I get? Oh I've got like a... I've got a drumstick. I was hoping for a drumstick. Yeah.

What have you got? I don't know, two nondescript kind of... I'm just so hungry now. I'm not really thinking about podcasting, I'm just eating the food. Oh yeah, I forgot we were recording. The muscle memory just goes in. I don't like these chips, these are real disappointment. Really? Oh yeah. What's wrong with them? They're just plain and there's no real taste to them. Not enough spiciness. No. I'll finish my zinger. I'm going to try one of these little mini bits of chicken that you got. So you're just about done

with your first piece of original recipe. What's the what's the thought? I can't put my finger on this. Something different. The flavoury skin part or the chicken itself? No the flavoury skin. That's the only bit that matters. Right. But I don't know if it's because we're in a motorway or it's because we're in the UK. Right, I'm onto my original recipe too now. I don't even know what piece this is. What piece have I got? Is that a breast or something? I don't know, they're sort of non-descript shakes at the moment.

Well, look, that's pretty good. The chips are a disappointment. Yeah, okay. The chicken's fine. It's a little bit different. Zinger burger was lovely. I'll always go with Zinger over the chicken. Cause it's also a cleaner eat. I agree.

Now let me try some of these chips that you've belittled because I know KFC chips are important to you and you think it's one of their strengths. Yeah, these are wrong. Those are weird. Oh yeah, they're not seasoned right. I could have stayed at home and eaten a potato. I've had KFC chips recently elsewhere in the UK

and they were nicely seasoned. These are not seasoned. I don't think they're seasoned at all. I've made a mistake. You never never know when you're gonna get in a secret customer like us, an expert undercover. These other plebs might be happy, satisfied with this but then royalty, KFC royalty walks in the door. I know. But one day they forgot to season the chips and it was the day KFC royalty arrived. They'll be kicking themselves

later after I write another letter to the CEO. There will be a letter of complaint. Let's take a picture for a letter of complaint. I feel like we should write it to headquarters in Kentucky. Kentucky? Like, not even in the UK? No. Go right to the top.

Yeah. I think they're dishonouring the memory of the Colonel. This could have repercussions for the UK's entire franchise operation. Yeah. percussions for the UK's entire franchise operation. There we go Tim. Does that Tim? Obviously we recorded that, but like, what are your memories of the visit? Has it stuck with you or has it sort of faded a bit in your memory?

Have the unseasoned chips, you know, scarred you? Upon my return, I was asked by my daughters's you know whether I had KFC and you know what it was like and I reported accurately the way I felt and you just heard. It was good to be back in Australia and to have the proper chips that that was incredibly satisfying and and you know it makes me think twice about ever traveling to the UK again, to be honest. If it wasn't for the belly buster challenge, I wouldn't go back at all. I am normally, of course, the UKFC chips are seasoned even here in the UK. And I've always thought you overrated KFC chips. I've always thought that. Really?

And I remember a few months ago, I was at a KFC and I was having some chips and they were just nicely seasoned and they were just well done. And I thought, you know, these are good. Tim's kind of right. They're they like when they're done well, they are good KFC chips. I don't think they're often done well though. Like it's rare, but when they get get them right they are absolute top shelf. I had well and as it has been with chips so it too will one day be with angels I'm sure.

I have to say I rarely have the chips I usually have one or two is a bit of a break but one of the reasons I give myself you know have KFC is a treat meal is I go well I won't have any carbs I won't have the chips because I just love the chicken and that's a way of justifying it to myself. So I don't often have the chips but other family members sometimes only order the chips no I'll just have a small chips that's it so that I steal a couple of theirs. I feel like at the moment I'm going through a real chicken wing phase, not KFC, just like if I'm somewhere that does chicken wings, like as a tappers or something like that, I always order them. I'm in a real chicken wing place at the moment. And they're not necessarily wings, of course, they can be little drumsticks and that, but you just refer to that blanket as chicken wings, but just little bits, little bits of chicken. I'm in a real zone at the moment of craving them a lot. Are you meaning like the American way you know the buffalo sauce and that kind of way. Yeah yeah usually with a sources are hot sauce of some sort on them is usually the case yeah so right sure something like that yeah.

I'm in a real I'm in a real zone for that. Well, thanks for sharing. No, that's great. That's a nice zone to be in for a while. It is phases of life, like Picasso's blue phase and things like that. That's right. My chicken wing for chicken wings, chicken wing period. Like every American during the super bowl, you're just sort of having a little season

of, uh, of chicken wings. I once, when we were getting chicken wings one time I was explaining to my young daughter about what a shame it is that there are so many chickens running around without their wings because they've been taken and cooked up. Nice. She was, which was a believed and horrifying thought for a few seconds. a believed and horrifying thought for a few seconds. And by the way, we will write to KFC to complain about the unseasoned ships and we will let you know if we receive a response.

By the way, there will be a request room associated with this episode, so if you go onto Patreon, patreon.com slash Unmade FM if you would like to listen to it, you're a patron or become a patron there always really good fun we got some great questions for today and we've actually had a request to do another one of our imagine the phone calls so we might even do one of those bit of a bit more role play so so. Oh yeah that was good fun. Yeah, so we're gonna have another one of those and answer some other questions. So check it out. But in terms of prizes this week where we give away like, you know, key rings and spoons and cards, we're not doing it this week because Brady's disorganized and wasn't able to run his powerful computer algorithms to spit out the recipients. So this week we're gonna have a little break from that and we're gonna go straight to an idea from Tim. And Tim, as I understand it, the idea we're gonna have a little break from that and we're gonna go straight to an idea from Tim and Tim as I understand it the idea we're gonna talk about with you again just falls out of serendipity and conversation and just our propensity to have podcast ideas at every turn. were having last night on text message and this idea is I'm going with the name skippy. You may want to change it at some stage. Not the but not the bush kangaroo of the Australian TV show Skippy.

We were talking about episodes of the West Wing last night and we were talking about scenes, but mainly episodes that we go back and watch but then ones that we skip. Yes. So we watching going back to your favourite TV series whether it's Seinfeld or whether it's Beverly Hills 90210 whether it's Melrose Place or the West Wing which are just the sort of four that we mentioned over and over here on the Unmade Podcast even though I'm sure we watch other television as well. over and over here on the unmade podcast even though I'm sure we watch other television as well. Yeah. You're following it through and then it's like this episode and it starts and you go, no, no, I'm skipping. I can do it from the title too because I'm currently doing a revisit of The West Wing, which is why I'm constantly texting Tim about The West Wing, much to his annoyance I'm sure. Almost every day I've got something new to say. Much to his annoyance I'm sure almost every day I've got something new to say and I as I look through the episodes I just look at the title on my I remember that one I remember that I remember that one that one was rubbish and I could skip it.

Can you can do that when you know a series really well so yes I prefer the name skippable to skipy. I do too. I thought I'd mention Skippy upfront because it's. So what, so how does the podcast idea work? Is this, you know, what's that? How does it become a podcast? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, people certainly can. You can. There's a couple of ways it can work. One is you get different people on to talk about, you know, the things that they they're their favourite series and but the episodes that they skip.

And why? Because I think that can be telling as well. It would be also interesting to get in people higher up the rank so like producers or people that were in a particular series and they can admit to the ones that they would suggest you skip so a way of identifying some of the weaker. Then then as was thinking about this it could move into other areas as well because everyone knows the experience of highly recommending an album to someone but saying except you know jump don't start with track one start on track two or skip track four or the second half sucks or something like that there's just the dud or something that he just falls out of place that's wrong and so naming and exploring why it's skippable is interesting. One of the reasons I like this idea so much is. There are lots of podcasts that you know will lion eyes or will sing the praises of something someone likes you know I love this show it's so brilliant this is what's brilliant.

Yeah and there are lots of podcasts and ideas that involve ripping something to pieces and saying why it's crap. But the beauty of this is it feels like most of the time you would have someone talking about something they love, their favorite TV show, their favorite album, but then focusing in on something about it they don't like. So it's like, I love the West Wing, but I hate this episode and this is why I hate it but I love it but I love the show so don't take it the wrong way. I think it's really interesting to have this kind of critique and deconstruction and talk from someone who loves the thing. Yeah yeah like it's a it's a slightly different perspective. This can be overdone. Like people can say you have to watch parks and recreation, but you know, you've got to get through the first three series or skip the first three. It's just like, yeah, I think he's serious.

Like, it's a slow burn. I do that a little bit sometimes with books. I really love the I've been recommending the three body problem book series to loads of people lately but I always have to say the first few chapters you got to push through please push through because it gets really great after that it's like. Well a classic example of that is is black at where the first series is absolutely rubbish and they knew that revisited and change the whole character in seasons two is amazing and 3 and 4 is some of the funniest television ever made. Alright Tim give me give me one of your absolute favourite albums and the tracks you skip from it. What's something skippable on something you love. The one that came to mind it's a favourite album even though I'm not a massive fan of this person I listen to it a lot and that's an album by Bruce Springsteen called tunnel of love and it's the album that he made after born in the USA which was like you know mega mega album and the one where everyone knows all the songs this was a big hit to this the one that came right afterwards. And has some about two or three songs on his greatest hits and but but the first song is I just can't do it I always start on track two so I can't even remember the name of the song I think it's called.

Cause I never I never listen to track one so I don't even remember the name of it but. Is it because it's not good or is it just because you want to start on such a high and then you would never think to go back to track one. It's called ain't got you it's because the whole album has a similar mood except trait track one track one's kind of like this be boppy kind of rock and roll the 1950s rock and roll kind of song and then track two it settles down to a song called tougher than the rest which is like a good medium pace you know kind of nice warm. tougher than the rest which is like a good medium pace you know kind of nice warm Bruce Springsteen song and all of them sort of after that are all like that and the first song just feels like it's on the wrong album it's just doesn't fit at all so. That's the first one that came to me it's skippable so I highly recommend do yourself a favour tunnel of love by Bruce Springsteen. Skip track one is there any track you skip on Akhtong Baby the U2 album? You're saying that because I've said before that it's my favourite album. That's a great album. I probably skip mysterious ways. No that's a great song.

Do you know why? Do you skip that because you've heard it too much though? That's I was going to say there are reasons for skippable and over familiarity can be one there episodes of the West Wing ego of just seen this too much I know it's lost its mystique. So I think mysterious ways was around a lot it's quite a simple song it's only got a couple of verses and. And then it's that mouth bounce bounce thing that goes on and you will skip it like if you're listening to that album you will you will make the effort to hit skip. Yes I would I have I have many many times. Yep yep mysterious ways even though it was like the second single and. I think it's a good song but it's just like I feel like it's and that's the problem with singles as well isn't it I don't know if that's such a problem these days but you know when you first single comes out it becomes a hit you hear it and then you buy the album will listen to the album.

It feels out of kilter with the rest of the songs you know them at a certain level together but you that one you know really well and it just. I often do that with an album will skip over. What about TV shows you love that have an episode that really rubs you up the wrong way? One that springs to my mind is, and I don't have particularly strong feelings about it, but I know it's a good example, is the TV show Breaking Bad, which is like a fantastic show. I absolutely adore it. Has this episode where is it a fly, an insect? I think it's a fly is stuck in the in the the lab where he's making the drugs. Spends the whole episode trying to catch it and like there's no real narrative or plot to the episode it's just him trying to catch a fly and it's a bit like.

What I think that would just be arty and experimental. Alright. And it just like it just doesn't go take it doesn't take the narrative anywhere and it's just like well why would I why am I even watching this that's what I think. It's polarizing. Yeah there's a few there's a few series that do that they do somewhere three quarters of the way through the series they decide to do like a documentary episode where they look at this character from a different angle and I remember mash did that once. where they look at this character from a different angle and I remember mash did that once there was like a documentary maker came in and made a documentary about the camp and every other characters. Yeah. It was a bit arty farty and there's a. Mash also did the thing where Hawkeye the main character that goes to see a psychiatrist and there's like these like meaningful and it's almost like just him looking at the camera I think like.

Yeah yeah yeah yeah. Not like a normal mash episode. Yeah yeah yeah and he's got flashbacks to someone killing a chicken and stuff yeah there's yeah it got a bit it's almost like the laughs aren't funny enough so they started to do it. I am try and go a bit deeper. I think the writers and creators just get bored making the same stuff all the time. You see it, you see it on YouTube channels. I'm guilty of it sometimes. I just want to make something different and I just want to, you know, flex, flex that part of my brain that I'm not using.

I don't want to make the same thing over and over again. And so you do it for yourself. But the viewers who've signed on for something else are like, Hey man, making those ones this is not what I signed up for just just keep making what you make that's what we're here for and it's like we okay but indulge me for just one place. Up as a band and they were looking back over their career and the guitarist Peter Buck was saying look I'm pretty I'm pretty friggin happy with all the albums that we made they made like 18 albums or something I'm pretty it's pretty good. He goes there's a couple few duds. You know, you're not gonna listen to all these albums ago Oh, wow, this is a beetle. You're just gonna go. This is pretty crap. That's a good That's a good podcast name a couple of duds a couple of great a couple of great creator and choose two duds that they made You know today today we've got John Lennon is the hero to duds from John Lennon.

Okay so you've got to go to Steven Spielberg. Couple of dads. You took the words right out of my mouth and what what are Steven Spielberg's two duds what's skippable for Steven Spielberg in your mind. The latter Indiana Jones. Is get some dad stuff. Oh yeah but he didn't direct them. Did he? I think he did.

He did. He did the crystal skull, didn't he? Oh, right. Okay. Yeah, that's a worry. Yeah. Yeah. He's got a few duds in there.

What's that one where the Ferris wheel comes off and rolls through town? I think it's one of his early ones. I got it. Did he do like 1943 or something or it's a one? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And that's the year? It's a wonderful year. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's the year, the name is a year. Spielberg, let me have a look, let me have a look, because otherwise people are going to be screaming at the-

1941, sorry, 1941. Right, right, right. 1943 was a video game I used to play. What else is here on this list, Spielberg list that's no good? Schindler's List? What was it? Saving Private Ryan? To be fair, Steven Spielberg list that's no good Schindler's List saving private Ryan to be fair Steve Steven Spielberg has got a pretty good list Steven Spielberg has got a pretty good list I

think he did direct Crystal Skull yes he did he did direct Crystal Skull so he can have that as a dud 1941 I think a lot of people think is a dud. I never saw ready player one I don't watch a lot of his films anymore. I didn't mind that I didn't mind that I liked the book and I thought the film was all right. I haven't seen Adventures of Tin Tin I don't know about that one. No, neither have I. Steven Spielberg has got a couple of duds but not many more than a couple. He'll do all right.

What about Tom Hanks? Dare we look at Tom? Tom Hanks? Tom Hanks will have plenty of duds that one that he did for Netflix about social media or something. I think I had Emma Watson. That was definitely a dad. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Based on the book. Yeah, I mean, yeah, that's true.

He's he's there's a lot of really top shelf films and like the Polar Express. I've never got all the way through that otherwise inferno I got bored with that to turn around who holds up. I like the circle I like it is I like I like the skippable idea but I like how we've evolved into a couple of duds I like that idea even better. I like that idea even better I mean even even the unmade podcast if you go through our you know hundred and forty eight episodes I'm sure you could probably find a couple of duds in there. You're probably sitting through one right now. This one the last one maybe the one before that. I think it would be great to get the person in to talk about that though as well. Like it would be great to have Tom Hanks come in and say what's your favourite film that you've made but also what's a couple of any. Give us a couple of duds.

You know what I tell you what you can't do that until your podcast is huge you've got to you've got to make your podcast so huge then that stars will start coming on up because you got the runs on the board you couldn't do that from the start. stars will start coming on up because you got the runs on the board you couldn't do that from the start. You know that's right yes yes no that's right they're not gonna come in and be you know I mean tanks is humble and this is the thing truly great people know they don't they don't they don't so precious they be humble about you didn't quite come together the difficulty that they face of course is that a film isn't holy his piece of work it's a whole community of people so coming on and saying it's a dud is a way it would be a hurtful to a whole range of people even if he might say my own performance maybe wasn't up to the scratch of some others. You don't want to have a you know what I mean you don't want to come on and bag other people that's not nice. Before we finish the episode and go off to the request room, here's your final challenge. You've got to do it quickly. Give me a couple of duds from Nick Cave. Albums or songs? Just give me a couple of duds.

He made an album called Nocturama and it's generally regarded as his worst album, but it came in such a strong period. It only came out about 20 years ago and it's pedestrian some of the songs of pedestrian so yeah. Nocturama he's also got a song one more dad one more dad is a song he sang at his last concert that he was here and he I don't know why because he was choosing just really important songs and then he chose that one. I don't know why cause he was choosing just really important songs and then he chose that one what called wild wide eyes I think it's called wide eyes and it's just you know it doesn't it didn't make me feel anything. Couple of dads. Couple of dads alright thank you for not making me choose to my videos that it does. Well, I was, I was trying to think of a hero in your life that I could pick and then I, but yeah, I wouldn't make it. You choose from your own work.

No. Uh, and now we're off to the request room. If you're a Patreon supporter or about to become one, come on over. We're going to have some fun. Is that a strong enough ending you reckon? Yeah. Okay.