The Unmade Podcast - 16: What's Wrong with North Dakota?

Episode Date: September 3, 2018

Register a domain with Hover at https://www.hover.com/Unmade and save 10% Today we're joined by Logan Smalley to discuss American States, Mt Rushmore, Internet Domains, Record Breaking, Incipit, Pizza at McDonalds, and people who are average. Support us on Patreon and suggest an idea like Stuie: https://www.patreon.com/unmadeFM Join the discussion of this episode on our subreddit: https://redd.it/9cjwr4 Check out Logan's work at TED-Ed: https://ed.ted.com Call Me Ishmael: http://callmeishmael.com/ And his documentary we allude to but don't name called Darius Goes West: http://www.dariusgoeswest.org

I just bought PeriodicFable.bucka. Ding-a-ling-a-ling-a-ling. Okay, everyone, welcome to a very special episode because today Tim and I are in England, but we have a guest. He's a friend of mine over in New York called Logan Smalley. Logan is a filmmaker.

He's the director of TED-Ed, the maker of countless and very, very many watched YouTube videos that are educational. And he's also behind a website called Call Me Ishmael, which I absolutely love. And I'm sure we'll come up today and we'll be talking about later on. Logan, how are you doing? Doing well. Thanks for having me on the show, Brady and Tim. It's cool.

I love listening to this podcast and I'm looking forward to chatting with you guys. Would you say it's your favorite podcast? And I'm looking forward to chatting with you guys. Would you say it's your favorite podcast? You know, I joined the sort of legions of fans that you have and just wishing that one of them would be made. And I was really happy. You know, I think that your Tommyball coverage was pretty award-winning. So I was glad that you took the time to do a special episode of that.

I have noticed that you didn't answer my question. No, it's a great podcast all right we're gonna you're a great politician mate well thanks thanks for being with us logan it's been a great episode catching up sometime you've fallen at the first hurdle logan i mean i grew up you know watching tommy ball so i just i felt like your coverage of that was necessary you know nice yeah it's definitely it's definitely been a gap in the market. Well, today you are being thrown under the bus. We are expecting ideas from you because that's what we do here on the Unmade Podcast. We put ideas out there and let them sink or swim,

but we're not going to throw you in straight away. We're going to let you warm up and I'll go first just so, you know, you can stretch your legs before we demand an idea from you. Does that sound reasonable? Yeah, it sounds good to me. Have you got lots of ideas? Was it hard choosing just two for today? Or was it scratching the bottom of the barrel? It's a tough...

You guys put me in a tough position. I feel like I have a fair amount of ideas. But when you called me up, I definitely was excited about the challenge. But the real challenge is not coming up with ideas. It's making sure that we don't really repeat ones. Because, of course, I've listened to every episode. But to be honest, I usually kind of scrub through Brady's part and just listen to Tim's part. So wise.

Very wise. Definitely. You're definitely getting on the wrong side of me already, man. I like this guest. This is good. We should have more guests. Here's an idea, Logan. This is an idea I've had.

It's sort of a token American idea because we've got our American guest, but it's also a little bit inspired by you because of a film that you've made that I enjoyed as well. But my idea is called States of the Union. And this is a 50 part podcast where every episode is made by our host or hosts

as they travel to every different state in america and as they get to each state they'll spend like about a week there and kind of record something of their experiences and impressions and their stories of that state and then next week they're off to the next one one two three four all the way up to 50 i love it yeah you know why i love it because i i uh i think you brought this up. I have traveled. I've been part of a traveling documentary, kind of traveled for four years straight. I went to 49 states. I haven't been to, what is it? North Dakota. But I know. So, hang on. So, you've made it to Hawaii and Alaska, but not North Dakota.

That's true. It's true. I don't know. I honestly don't know how we avoided it I wish we hadn't I need to one day kind of you know check it off the list but I can say that I like this podcast idea because when we were traveling it was sort of pre-podcast you know I think the iPhone was v1 and so there was a craving to kind of record our experiences and you know we were using prosumer cameras which is you know a pretty beefy tool for for the job when compared to podcasts which is your favorite state oh that's tough i mean i'll side with my wife and talk about california especially northern california where she's from i think that's you know heaven on earth yeah what's your least favorite state north dakota obviously yeah north dakota

armpit armpit of the midwest was there a state you would say you had like a bad experience in like you know not that it's a bad state but just your experience of it wasn't the best for one reason or another like you got pulled over by the cops or something oh we were pulled over several times we had sort of a maniac driver um the way we got involved with the trip, we were all younger than 25. But if you get a 25-year-old, you save some money on the insurance when you're in an RV. So we sort of recruited my most insane, super cool 25-year-old friend. He was just taking hard lefts and hard rights everywhere. I don't know.

The thing that stinks about a state is when it's one of those repetitive states where it's kind of strip mall after strip mall after strip mall. But every state, when you find the sort of beating heart of it, it's got some character. It's just, there's too many strip malls across the United States. So, this idea, I like this idea. I like it a lot. It actually reminds me of the project, the sort of mythical project that the singer Sufjan Stevens was said to be on. You familiar with this? Oh, yeah. Brady's shaking his head.

No, I don't know it. Sufjan Stevens is a singer-songwriter, and his first album or an early album was called Michigan, and it was all about Michigan. And then he released another album called Illinois, or Come on, Feel the Illinois. Yeah. And that's a classic album. I mean, that's a 10-star, really quite amazing double album. Please tell me he released 49 and then died before he made North Dakota. No, he's actually...

That would be gold. But no, he's not got any further. But he was forever known early on. It was a good publicity angle that he was going to make one for every state. He's since made several magnificent albums, especially Carrie and Lowell, his last one. But yeah, he's given up the 50 state project. Did he officially give it up, Tim? Did he officially give it up?

Like he announced, I quit? I've read him in interviews talking, admitting to the fact that he was sort of playing on the publicity of it early on. I mean, he may do another one. The cool thing about it is how intricately researched they were, particularly Illinois. You like these albums? You know them, Logan?

Yeah. I mean, you know, I don't think I could place which song was on which album, but as Sufjan Stevens goes, I definitely appreciate his music, yeah. So this is an idea that is just an exploration, is that right? Are you travelling around or is it history? No, I'd want to travel around. Obviously it appeals to my love of making things that are like collections and sets, like my videos about the periodic table and things like that.

I do like complete sets. And, in fact, my sequel for my podcast that I haven't and will probably never make would be something where you do every county of the United Kingdom or every state of other countries, like every state of Australia. And I quite like the idea that you could kind of like franchise this and do it in all sorts of different places. I mean, America is the obvious one because it's sort of, you know, so known for its 50 states. But I think you could roll this out to other places that have provinces and counties and states and all these different

kind of arbitrary geographical divisions. Well, Brady, you picked, you know, I know you frequent the United States for work. Did you pick the States because it's a convenient 50 number or, you know, do you have the itch to travel to all 50? I do. I am someone who likes to go to like significant places and tick these things off the list i would like to do all 50 i'd like to drive across america that's a holiday i really want to do that i haven't done but i chose 50 more well i chose 50 more if you want if you want to hear the absolutely honest answer was i liked the name state of the union and i thought what would that what would that podcast be about so uh so that was where it started but i mean i actually have no doubt such

a podcast already exists and there are i'm sure there are a million books and other pieces of media that have been produced that are all about the collection of 50 because the states of america is such a famous collection i mean most americans are able to tell you how many states they've been to and which ones they haven't i mean logan was able to do it really quickly and lots of my other american friends when you talk with them they'll tell you what ones they've been to, what ones they haven't. So it's probably very famous as a collection. Whereas if you speak to someone in the UK and say,

what counties have you been to? I've been to Kent and Somerset and, you know, Yorkshire. They couldn't do it. They wouldn't even know. It's just all one big mess that bleeds into one. But it's also delineated in Americaica that it's such an an obvious collection and some of the states are all quite different from each other as well so yeah it's it's the obvious place to start is this you being sort of a journalist in each place and exploring

the people and the flora and the fauna or i think so i think it's like fun travelogue spontaneous adventure with a little bit of anecdote and history peppered in just to give it a little bit of nutrition. So you sort of see what happens. And as you sort of explore the state and tell a little bit of its story, you see what adventures you stumble on along the way. Well, you know where the party is. South Dakota. South Dakota. Mount Rushmore.

There's a West Wing episode where I think Donna is sent to North Dakota. Is that right? To head off. And they're trying to change their name from north dakota to dakota because they feel that the north associates them with cold and snow and many the statistics said there's crazy amount percentage of more people go to south dakota they said why do so many people go to south dakota they think north is cold. It's like, well, they've also got Mount Rushmore. That is, if I could go to anywhere in America that I haven't been, if you could transport me there to go and see it, Mount Rushmore would be the place.

That's like, I have got an itch for Mount Rushmore, I have to admit. You have to go, Brady. I feel like it's calling you. It's one of the most oddest, most odd allées, like the walk-up that's sort of, you know, there's lamps and American flags and you're walking and you're walking and you can't see anything. And then all of a sudden, this mountain emerges. And then when you get a little bit closer, it's actually not that big. Oh, really? And there's kind of like high patriot, and everyone's there for lots of different reasons. And I really actually love the surrealness of it. But my favorite part about Mount Rushmore

is down the street, and I'm going to totally get the facts wrong. So, I hope everyone will fact check me. So, Mount Rushmore is a, you know, sort of nationally funded national park. Down the street, they are working. This one guy has been building a sculpture out of a mountain out of a Native American. Right. And he's been working on it personally his whole life, just chipping away with a chisel. And so, for every Mount Rushmore billboard, there's a billboard to that one as well. And it's not quite done yet. And I don't know when they anticipate it being done, but it's quite the build-off going on in South Dakota.

The thing with Mount Rushmore and the size of it is, lots of people tell me it's smaller than you expect, right? And I think I've been so conditioned for that, that it's going to be bigger than I expect. Because the one thing, the other thing I was told that was going to be smaller than I expected was the Mona Lisa. And I've been told so many times, oh, the Mona Lisa is way smaller than you think.

That I think in my head, it had become like a postage stamp that you would need a magnifying glass to look at. And when I actually saw it, I was like, oh, it's actually quite a big painting. I was quite impressed by it. I totally agree with that, except you're the person that's told me over so many years how small it was. You go, okay, did you know it's actually quite small?

It's like A4 size or something. I don't know. And I finally get there, it's like, oh, it's magnificent. It's huge. I was obviously the source of that bad information. But I think that Mount Rushmore is going to be the same. I think in my head, it's become like the size of a television set and I'll be looking down at it below my knees or something.

And when I get there, it's going to be, oh, that's a pretty big mountain. I'm pretty impressed by it. I have to see it, though. I don't know. I just want to see it with my own eyes. Logan, did you say they're playing music at Mount Rushmore when you go there? Yeah, but through, you know, sort of like through 1990s analog speakers that are mounted in the lamps that keep you from seeing the mountain.

Like it sort of was produced well for the 90s and maybe they've updated. Maybe, you know, maybe a road trip is in order. What are they playing? Like Star Spangled Banner and God Save America. All the hits. Yeah. it maybe you know maybe a road trip is in order what are they playing like star spangled banner and yeah god save all the hits all the hits yeah yeah so that's like a baseball game basically yeah except for it's just a con you know you're standing the whole time you don't dare sit down what's the rushmore mean where does the name come from either of you guys oh good question if logan if logan doesn't know we got. No. Maybe Rushmore is the person that discovered

the amazing coincidence. Natural feature. The amazing coincidence that looks just like four presidents. Imagine if he discovered it before those guys were president. It's just like, well, hang on, this will be amazing. A second one. Yes! Yes! It was like a predictor

of future presidents at one stage. Unbelievable. Vote for me because I look just like that face on Mount Rushmore That's right, we have to go with this guy Maybe there's another mountain somewhere that's done each of like blocks of four presidents So we actually can find them somewhere Just follow the music, that's where they'll be I've got another one for you Brady that given your obsession with the moon Have you ever been to Craters of the Moon?

I don't actually, I'm trying to sort of look up what state it's in. It's just like a sort of a moonscape here on earth scenario, is it? Exactly. But for miles and miles and miles, it's pretty wild. You kind of get lost in it. Sounds good.

Logan, sounds like you're the guy to do this podcast with. You could be like our tour guide, except when we get to North Dakota and then you're going to have no idea what's going on. You'd be lost. Yeah, that's right sure i'm 25 i'll rent that i'll rent the rv save you some insurance no problem yeah sure i'll get cheap insurance you'll be the crazy guy that's just there for insurance purposes stephen fry did a television documentary where

he jumped in a british cab or london cab and and drove across but i don't think he went to all 50 states it was just sort of a few states around the place he's too busy he's too busy you found out where craters on the moon is you still googling uh i'm trying i think it's in no sorry i'm still googling i would love it to be in north dakota yeah that would be you've seen it though you. You've been there, have you, Logan? Yes. So I could get caught in a North Dakota debacle here. Logan, can I ask? I understand you're from Georgia. Is that right? That's true.

I am from Athens, Georgia, where the university is. It's about an hour north of Atlanta. I've been to Athens. Oh, yeah? Oh, that was like a mecca for me to go to. Oh, yeah. For the music? For REM.

Yes. To see the 40 Watt Club and go to Weaver Dees. Yeah. Oh, you know Weaver Dees, Tim? Yeah. Yeah. Wow. I went and ate at Weaver Dees and I got a photo with Weaver Dees. Oh, yeah. Tim, we just need to edge Brady out of this podcast. We'll just drop him off at the Craters of the Moon and let him wander. Which is in central Idaho. Central Idaho. Central Idaho. Thank you. Yeah.

No, that was exciting for me to go to Athens and particularly to Weaver Dees. Weaver Dees, Brady, you won't know this, but the call sign or the slogan of this guy, this southern, you know, fried chicken food place, very humble kind of place. His slogan is automatic for the people. And that's where REM got their name of their album from okay being from athens yeah yeah i'm so glad that you've been there you know the the reason i was able to go on a road trip was uh a lot of the rem foundation actually founded it was a non-profit road trip founded some of the work so that's that's awesome 40 watt i bartended two doors

down from the 40 watt all through college and went there every Friday. It sounds like you had the college experience that I wish I was having while I was sort of in Australia at my university. Meanwhile, Tim was stuck growing up in North Dakota. But here's the thing. If Brady came and did his podcast in Athens, I feel like REM, 40 watts, sure. It's definitely going to please the crowd. You could even go a little deeper into the music scene, Neutral local haunt there's a there's a goat man who walks around with goats and he can be heard late at night and everyone thought it was a legend and then one day he's on the front page of the news and there's an actual goat man

wow yeah like that's like the loch ness monster of athens georgia yes but for for clarity the the it was a picture of him from the 70s that it was true. So basically his legend had sort of transcended his decade of being a living goat man walking around Athens to a ghost story. Yeah. Just to clarify, when you say goat man, are you talking about a goat herd or a man that's half man, half goat? Thanks. Thanks for asking for clarity on that. Yeah. I'd hate to see his legend get dinged. He is a goat herder who okay traversed

when you talk about him being a ghost you know what i mean picturing a man that's half man half goat i've actually decided after logan made a few jokes at my expense at the start of the podcast when i make states of the union i'm gonna visit every single state in america except georgia oh no i'm just gonna leave that one out right you Right. You'll just be in Alabama taunting us. Yeah. And when people point that out, I'm going to say it's because of a guy called Logan Smalley. You can blame him. I love Georgia. Georgia is utterly beautiful. Yeah. Great Tommy ball scene in the Appalachian Mountains.

So, there's some very impressive Tommy ball stadiums throughout Georgia. Because you need that altitude, you know. Yeah. Well, obviously, it makes it easier. we've i think we've had enough uh of my idea which is clearly inspiring it's a good idea it's got legs i mean it's a pretty low hanging fruit that idea does that mean i get to go yes that means you're up mate you're up what do you got for us what's your first idea okay the the generic name is just url. So, it's based on this idea that I have a theory that interesting people such as you two and lots of great people throughout the world sort of compulsively buy URLs when they get an idea or domains, if you will. And so, then they never

do anything with them, right? They just kind of sit in their registry. And so, to me, there's this awesome sort of like reserve dream space that for each URL that you own. And so, to me, there's this awesome sort of like reserve dream space that for each URL that you own. And I've been having this conversation with some people since you called me and, you know, talk to some people and I have some of my own. So, it's basically, you have people on the show, interview them about the URLs that they own, maybe that they're proud to own, that they tried to own, that they are proud to own that they tried to own that they are embarrassed to own they sort of bought on a you know yeah a bad impulse and then yeah but you don't spend too much time talking about like dot com versus dot org or you know the sort of boring stuff and instead you talk about

what it would be so i guess it's not altogether a different conceit than this show but maybe a step further in that you you've purchased you know you've put you put your money in the hat yeah it was an idea or a vision or a whim you had that you never like converted on. But the thread that links everyone's story is that they took the step of buying the URL. That's right. That's right. So, I'm curious, you know, if you guys would, you know, have URLs that are sort of parked. I do have some.

Yeah, I've got a bunch. Very often the ones I end up sitting on are ones that i i'll bring something up in like a podcast like tommy ball for example like joking around and i'm and it occurs to me that once we put this out there and there's no like follow through as yet if i don't park the url someone someone else is going to grab it just for like the i mean that happens to a lot because of like you know so the job do, I'm sort of a semi-public person. So everyone wants to kind of have a joke at my expense. So, so like if I was to mention Tommy Ball and not park TommyBall.com within 10 seconds, you know, someone else is going to do it. And that's fine. You know, that happens, that still happens a

million times a day sort of thing. But so I've parked a few for those reasons. There's a few others, but I'm not a huge one for having ideas that I do nothing about necessarily. I've got a million ideas that just flip through my head and sit there, but it would be too expensive to cash all of them in. Or if an idea is big enough, I'll usually actually do the idea. How about you, Tim? You got anything sitting there in the background? Look, I don't i did buy my name.com.au early on before i had any reason to just because i wanted to i thought that was really important to for some reason but i do remember that early

flurry where with this was a thing especially in the early days cyber squatting they called it but it was usually done with some malice you would buy the name of something else that wasn't you and then hope that you could sell it to like you, you'd buy mcdonalds.com and then hope that McDonald's would buy it before business had really gotten savvy to the internet. That was a... The squatting. Cyber squatting.

In my early days as a journalist, when I was a bit savvy to that this was going on and the internet was still quite a new thing, that was always a good go-to news story for me. I would always, like, just go and look at what famous i grew up in the south australia so i would look at what famous south australian brands and names had been squatted by someone else someone would have taken the name of a shop or a famous don bradman who's a very very famous cricketer from australia people would like register his name.com because he was like this sacred person it would cause all this controversy

and people would be so upset that the great man was being exploited. So it was a time when people didn't fully understand the internet, but they knew that people's names were somehow being stolen in the internet land and it would cause lots of controversy. And I sort of fed off that for six months or so. Meaning you made the purchase and then sort of-

No, it covered up my- I did it under Tim's name, luckily. Oh, yeah, yeah. I like to think you did that to defend him. You know, you just sort of bought it because you knew he didn't understand the internet yet. And then you just waited for the day where he was like, his people contacted you and said,

you know, we see you own this cricketer's name. And then you're like, it's yours. I bought it for you six months ago. No, it wasn't me. I wasn wasn't that i wasn't quite that clever i have uh one that i think you'll really like brady i i i don't remember when i bought it often it'll be a sort of 1 a.m exercise i'll just lightning will strike and i'll be like oh i'll buy that uh but periodic fable was bizarrely available. Fair enough. Yeah, so I might just ride your coattails and, you know, sort of periodically release fables in the shape of a periodic table.

That was one. Another one that I got, this one was inspired by, speaking of Athens, Tim, there's a pretty legendary Waffle House in the middle of the sort of university scene. Do you guys know Waffle House? Yeah. We know what a waffle is. Yeah. So, you know, it's just your 24-hour diner that you end up at in the morning or, you know, late at night. And you can study there or drink there. And it's kind of, you know, the melting pot of the town.

And there was one right in the middle of Athens. And just one night just went crazy there. You know, there was people doing the deed in the bathroom. There was, you know, there was a food fight. There was a football player who got arrested, kind of all these things. And so, it was around the time that, you know, texts from last night and people at Walmart and those kind of sites were taking off so I bought I saw that I owned last night at thewafflehouse.com. Ah that's nice yeah just like tales of the tales of yeah silliness and debauchery at Waffle Houses. It's true it's I figure that's what it'll become but to tell you the truth my motivation at the beginning I was there that night

not partaking I was sort of studying for an exam or writing a paper or something. And, you know, you kind of just sit there and observe everything. So, for me, it had, this is, I'm not saying this is a good idea, but my impulse to buy it, I had it like a literary bent where I was kind of Jack Kerouac or something like documenting all the insanity around me. And so, I was, you know, I had dreams of other people doing that which which would never happen but um but yeah i still own the domain you know kind of put it on auto renew i was shielded from this idea a little bit or warned off it in a sense because i did have that sense of oh what if what can i think of just as a vague thing that would come to mind every now and then this is years ago and then i remember reading an interview with someone who um was a reasonably successful online kind of person and in the interview they said do you

have any life regrets and he said one late night buying up an enormous amount of urls that i thought were important and i just remember reading that going oh okay so that's can be just a total waste of time and money and it just sort of took it off the agenda, the to-do list in my mind forever. I have the opposite story. A friend of mine who works at the University of Nottingham was a very early adopter of the internet to a point where it was still the point where every name that had been registered overnight,

you could look at like on a list. And he was pondering buying flowers.com. And I think it would have cost him like 50 bucks or 100 bucks. And he was umming and ahhing thinking, oh, that'd be a good one to get for florists and internet flower deliveries and stuff. And then he went, oh, 100 bucks, bit steep. And he decided not to buy it.

And of course, now flowers.com. I mean, what would that be worth? $10 million? I don't know, name your price. But he decided not to buy it because he was being a bit frugal. Wow. I10 million? I don't know. Name your price. But he decided not to buy it because he was being a bit frugal. Wow. I ran this on my neighbor and, you know, he sort of pulled up his account, looked at what he owned and he had forgotten about one that I really loved. It was museumoftherong.com or something. So, you know, no surprise that it

was available. And I liked it because we sort of paused and I guessed what it would be. And I think I guessed that it would be, you know, sort of famous typos or, you know, just a variety of things. But he actually had a pretty cool, he wanted to make, it was a science museum that honored the idea that, you know, science is as much about what we get wrong and the way to getting it right. And so, it was actually going to try and celebrate all the, you know removed scientists i thought it was a really cool idea and you know just kind of sitting there in his registry there's one problem for your podcast idea logan which i love and that is that a lot of the people who do this would probably be reluctant to go public with what

their secret plan is because you're kind of sitting on it it's your secret idea you think it's going to be your fortune one day and getting people to come on a show and be public about something they've not yet executed even if they own the domain that doesn't really protect the idea you're right and so so i think a lot of people like people who aren't just like like us three and just have more ideas than we know what to do with and just go and sort of spit them out and then forget about them. Some people like sit on their idea, like it's their golden ticket. And I think a lot of the best people that you might want to speak to might be,

oh, no, I'm not willing to talk about that yet. Tim, is Brady talking right now? And with his fingers, he's purchasing Tommyball.org. I will definitely be getting my Tommyball ducks in a row before this episode goes out. I don't know. I think in some ways people would be willing, the better stories would be the people that are willing to come and give their most ridiculous one. You know, because they still owned, they still bought it. And yet they now look at it and go, oh, geez, look, why did I buy that? I released a few fish back into the wild this week when I got the email from my domain registrar saying this one's due for renewal.

And I looked at it and thought, no, no, no, I'm never going to use that one. I did release a few just this week. Yeah, this is a good idea. I think there's good. And I think having a different person on and the story, the dreams that were there and why they haven't happened. And are they planning to keep renewing it or are they not a sort of shark tanky element at first i didn't like the name url stories because i just thought it was almost a bit too this is what it does on the tin sort of you know

but the more i think about it the more it sounds a bit like your like your story like using the you and the r so i sort of i sort of maybe i'm imagining that's what you thought all along and i'm beginning to see that a bit. So I don't mind URL stories. But I think we have not yet found the name. But I think it is a very good idea. But when we name it, we need to get that domain straight away. Because this is a winner.

Before Logan does. There'll just be this frenzy tonight of us thinking of all these names and registering them on both sides of the Atlantic.antic it's escalating that was fun guys thank you all right nice one mate very nice very good debut here on the show logan oh i also brady i also own the periodic fable so don't even try it all right have you got dot net and like, have you got like.vodka and.xxx and all the different variations? .vodka. Oh, that's new. I like it.

Periodicvideos.xxx. And you can get a little sound effect every time you buy one on the show, right? Like, I just bought Periodic Fable.vodka. Ding-a-ling-a-ling-a-ling. We have the absolute perfect sponsor for today's show, and that's Hover. Hover is, in my opinion, the gold standard service when it comes to registering domain names. I use them all the time. In fact, unmade.fm itself is registered with Hover, and I can't recommend them highly enough.

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discussion with Logan all about domain names has inspired you or maybe jolted you into action, then go to hover.com slash unmade. And I know my Australian pronunciation of hover might have you foxed. So that spelling is H-O-V-E-R, like a hovercraft, dot com, and then use the slash unmade so they know you came from the show here. And by the way, you might also want to use that slash unmade because you're going to get 10% off Hover's already great prices with your first purchase. 10% off, that's a bargain. Don't miss out, people. Today might be the day that someone else registers the domain name that you wish you had. Hover.com slash Unmade. Our thanks to them for supporting this episode.

All right, Tim, you're up, man. What do you got? Let's see it. You show us how it's done. All right. Listen, I'm intimidated because I'm both with a guest who's started so strongly. But look, my idea in some ways is quite a logical idea, but we'll see how it goes. It's World Record Podcast. Now, it's not what you think. It's not a podcast talking about world records. It's a podcast featuring podcast world records. Every episode is an attempt to break a podcast world record.

Now, podcasting is huge. It's a real phenomena. And I largely think we've inspired that phenomena. Yeah. You have, Tim. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think it's great that we capitalize on that.

By starting to measure and feature podcasts that try and break a podcast world record for that episode and then talk about the features of that. So the episode itself is the world record breaking episode. That's right. So like today we're going to make the longest ever podcast. That's right. Episode. That's exactly right. Yep.

We're going to make the longest. We're going to make the shortest, which would just be today. The podcast recorded at the highest altitude. Or the podcast recorded at the lowest in a submarine underwater. You know what I mean? And you just let your imagination go wild. Most hosts on a single episode. That's right.

Yeah. The most guests on a single episode. Most unmade ideas suggested. So it's really about the most guests on a single episode most unmade ideas suggested so it's really about the the sort of act of recording not that i was when you said it i thought you were talking about kind of the content like you know i gargled water for the most amount of time on a podcast or something that's even more meta than that like it's like yeah the episode itself is record-breaking it could have both because you do actually need some content in this podcast recorded at a massive high altitude.

Yeah. You could just talk about, well, here we are. I think your idea is much better, right? Because if it was the content, you know, it would become, it's like an exercise in tediousness, you know, like I gargled water for 10 hours. You're welcome, podcast world. But you would have to also, oh, you know what would be a great episode?

Because the one that occurred to me straight away was, oh oh what about the one where the hosts are the furthest apart and to do that presumably you'd have to be on two like antipodal points on the earth like that exact opposite sides of the earth because that way your record can't be broken without like you know going to space right so or going into a taller building in those spots well the earth has different thicknesses at different points like they're at the equator is wider and there is a point furthest from the earth on top of a certain mountain so you'd have to like you know that's what would happen when someone tries to beat your record i think coming up with the records would be the fun part yeah yeah and

then you got to do it you probably just send a team off to do it yeah that's right i just sit in my comfy chair and come up with the ideas and send off my minions to. All right. What's the thing is you can start trying to break two and three. So the most world records broken in a world record, like, you know what I mean?

Most records broken in a single break. It is the most podcast records broken. You could do the quietest podcast and the loudest podcast. That's true. That's true. I love that idea um brady has anyone done the um a podcast from mount everest i feel like you would know that oh they i'm sure they have everything's been done at mount everest i mean there's wi-fi at mount everest so there's

i think more stuff gets there's probably more media gets recorded at mount everest than right disney studios so how are we So how are we going to break that record? I guess you take to the skies? Well, you can't do that one. We have to record one on top of Olympus Mons on Mars or something. That's a challenge. I think if you made the first podcast on Mars, you'd probably have done more notable things

than making the first podcast on Mars. Or you combine the submarine with that uh the submarine idea with whatever that mountain range that's even taller than everest underwater and just park on the top right so you sort of claim the submarine and the tallest mountain in one podcast i mean the initial concern i have with tim's idea is it's gonna quite often run into some cost constraints. Where's your vision? That's nothing a little Patreon channel won't cover. Yeah, we've custom made a submarine to bring you this podcast from the bottom of the Mariana Trench.

I'll be your patron, Tim. I got you. You got it. All right. Here we go. Did I not tell you Logan's quite wealthy? Yeah. Wow. Would we just. Did I not tell you Logan's quite wealthy? Yeah. Wow.

Would we just get one submarine straight off the bat or would you see a whole fleet? Which one do you want? You got any record ideas, Logan, if you were joining us on this show? Is there any record you'd like to be involved in the breaking of? Oh, gosh. First podcast recorded in North Dakota. Right. Right.

Yeah. From first podcast recorded from each president's forehead. It's not going to be the only podcast recorded in North Dakota. Yeah, repelling from the nose of each president. What's your thing? What's like your passion that we could podcast ours and then make into a record? Most domains owned by a single person. Oh, yeah.

No, I mean, I would, you know, I have the compulsion towards the first sentence of books As you know, I think I would probably revolve it around something around that Longest first sentence in a podcast? Yes, thank you You could do a podcast that was an entirely, it was one sentence And you could do those, yeah, that's right We've talked a little bit about this before, adding linguistic challenges Constrained podcasts and so forth

But we've not done them in a submarine or on Mount Everest. Fastest podcast? So it's recorded in like a fighter jet or something? Oh, yeah. I like the fastest one, you know, the sound barrier being in place. So if you sort of capture it somehow where, you know, the first 30 seconds of the podcast are quiet and then just the sonic boom comes through.

Yeah, nice. Yeah, all right. Good idea. Good idea world records i like it logan have you actually come close to breaking any records yourself like if you were to break a world record get yourself into the guinness book of records what are you most likely to break oh good question longest pause before answering a question Good question. Longest pause before answering a question. Well, you have to kind of like fish your extremes. I'm trying to think of like what I've been more extreme at than other people.

You know, I traveled, it's not even close, but I think where I would be a contender, I traveled 400, 000 miles by road on that road trip that we talked about i feel like that's you know that's good yeah pretty up there most consecutive days wearing trainers yeah oh that's actually a huge help so i was thinking of other extreme behaviors you know that film that I made that was related to that, you know, kind of came home with 400 hours of footage, which leads to extreme behavior of editing and assembling that. Certainly, documentaries have been made out of far more source footage. But I made mine wearing a pair of Adidas pants every single day to minimize friction as I edited above my parents' garage. So, you're talking to the number one

adidas pants sweatpants wearer at least in georgia wow you know i got in the guinness book of records what did you do it for yeah this world's smallest periodic table we engraved on a on a on a human hair and it was like in the guinness book of records that was like like my name wasn't in there but i like you know arranged it and did it so so you don't think that counts if my name i guess if my name's not on there but i'll tell you i'll tell you a secret my hair is on there because we did two versions of it we did a practice version using a hair on the back of my hand and then the final version on one of professor polyakov's hairs from his head because he's got big famous frizzy hair and the version that was done with a hair from the back of my hand,

I think looked, they were the same size, but looked better. And I think that ended up being the image they used. So a picture of, a close-up picture of a hair from the back of my hand was in. So, you know, it's not exactly a headshot, but... That's pretty cool. That's awesome. That was in the Guinness... Is it still there then?

Well, they change the book every year to, like, keep it fresh. So it was in, I can't remember what year it was. I've got it upstairs on the shelf. It was like 2010 or something. It was in one episode. It's still the record for the smallest periodic table. Well, that really puts my Adidas pants claim to fame to shame. Thanks a lot, Brady.

Which edition was your Adidas pants, buddy? Yes, I'm wearing them right now for all of you out there wondering i did you keep them or have you had them framed or have they i did keep them i still wear them they're in my gym locker i wonder if we could combine the idea like in australia we call them adidas by the way so i'm gonna say adidas but first periodic table imprinted on a pair of adidas pants i'm sure we could merge them somehow into some completely unmemorable world record. How about you, Tim? What's your record?

Yeah, what's going to be your world record, Tim? Oh, dear, I don't know. I've got one for you, Tim. I think you would be a candidate for loudest noise generated while eating a hamburger. It's a competitive space, watch out. I would be one of your main competitors I enjoy a hamburger

I've never had it measured Never had it fed back to me But the English are quiet eaters it seems And I'm very enthusiastic Alright Logan, are you ready for another idea? Yeah, I can go with that You're going to hit us with another one, number two? Number two

Okay, so my second idea is back to that sort of linguistic creative constraints that we were talking about. It's inspired by my wife and I's work. We run the project callmeishmill.com. And of course, Call Me Ishmael is a very famous, perhaps the most famous opening sentence of a novel, Moby Dick. The way that we came up with the idea is actually just via an obsession with opening sentences. When I walk into a bookstore, I have almost like a compulsion to look at the first sentence of any book. So, anyways, back to the idea. I want to broaden it just a little bit. This is up for debate, but a big feature is the review of an evaluation and dramatic readings of the first

sentences of books but i want to also just open it up to songs poems movies speeches right like it's it's so i found a word perhaps you guys are familiar with this word but it's sort of new to me but the word insipid the opening words of a text or manuscript. And I think... How do you spell that, mate? I don't know the word. I-N-C-I-P-I-T, insipid. So like insipid, but with a T instead of a D.

Right. And so it's like... You are always taken, by the way. Not by me. Freddie already had one hand on the keyboard. Hands off. That's why I was asking you how it's spelled. Okay, here's why though, right?

The first part of anything, a book, a movie, a song, is what the most people are always going to hear, right? So there's the hook or maybe you sort of ease your way into something. But either way, you really need to think about the sort of creative decisions that you put into that. And so I just want to develop about the sort of creative decisions that you put into that. And so, I just want to develop a whole sort of culture and language around talking about it and evaluating it and celebrating it. What do you guys think? Logan, do you think it's superficial to put so much emphasis onto that first line? Because the

first line, it's almost like a marketing exercise, isn't it? Trying to hook people in with a catchy first line do you think that's a good thing or do you think it's unfortunate that you know we've all heard the saying you shouldn't judge a book by its cover right but you're judging art by its first line do you think that's like a fair thing to do do you think it's an unfortunate thing to do it's obviously an interesting thing to do in the category of books i actually think it solves a huge problem around book podcasts. Because obviously the problem with the book podcast is just the polarization. Either they're talking about something you haven't read and you're kind of like, eh. There's spoiler issues.

Are they trying to get you to read it? Are they trying to get you to not read it? Or if you have read it, you know, you're sort of looking for more information about the book. And so, I actually think it's a great constraint to sort of start talking about books in a way that's really clear up front, kind of, you know. Yeah. Yeah.

I don't expect, I love this idea, by the way, but I don't expect, this is answering Brady's question, I don't expect the first line to sell me the book i always relish the first line right and when i read a book i often go oh that's an interesting they chose that first line that's an interesting choice because it's obviously a deliberate choice from the author i put pressure on the first chapter to sell me to get me into a book not necessarily the first line i do like the idea i guess one of the things that this podcast has tried to do over some time is sometimes take an idea that's pretty simple on the face of it you know pretty simple normal subject matter but make but be creative with the format and find a new way in and i guess that's what logan's doing here isn't it like you

know making a podcast about books is one of the oldest podcast ideas you could possibly have but finding creative and new ways to frame it is always the challenge and that's what this does You know, making a podcast about books is one of the oldest podcast ideas you could possibly have. But finding creative and new ways to frame it is always the challenge. And that's what this does. And as Logan says, it also gives you an excuse to talk about the book without necessarily blowing the end or yet again talking about the content or... That's right. And then you can really just sort of revel in the economy of words that the first sentence... I just...

The reason I'm so drawn to it, and maybe it won't translate into a podcast, but I just think, imagine how long it takes to write a book, right? You're hunched over in your corner, typing away for months, maybe years, some people for decades. And then you have to be confronted with this decision of what is the front door? What is the first thing that people see? and it's the thing that most people will see. And I just love the gravitas of it, the consequences of it. But like Tim said, you don't throw a book away because the first sentence isn't good, but it better be good, you know?

I sometimes judge the first line because I always notice it and I think, no, that's not enough, that wasn't enough. You could have done better than that. And it could be almost anything, but I sometimes evaluate it, which I'm sure you do too, if you're looking for it. What's your favorite then? Come on. What are some of the top three or four?

I like Gravity's Rainbow. I always think about that one. A screaming comes across the sky. I just love that, right? You tumble into the next sentence you want to know. What's a good book, like a classic good book, that has a notoriously bad first line? This is slightly sideways answer to your question,

but, right, there's a huge misconception about the Dickens, it was the best of times, it was the worst of times, right? Like, that's actually the first two phrases of an otherwise very long sentence. Okay. It was an age of wisdom and, you know, foolishness, and it keeps going and going and going so i kind of yeah like pointing that out sometimes he wasn't as much a good a tweeter as

we thought he was more of a prose man well so you guys really latched into the books is it are we you know are you saying we should stick with only books because to me and sip it we can go beyond that right like movies songs i was looking at movie first lines or movie opening scenes right Because to me, in Sip It, we can go beyond that, right? Like movies, songs. I was looking at movie first lines or movie opening scenes, right? I'm not sure if movies, we should always call it about the first words. No, I agree. I agree. That's the problem with the first line of movies is that it's often the first line,

something, a whole bunch of incredible stuff has already happened by the time someone actually speaks. Right. There's a good one, though, to illustrate my point about the sort of embedded meaning in Fight Club. The first line is, people are always asking me if I know Tyler Durden, right? And I never even knew that. I was actually just kind of looking it up and, right, like no spoilers, but pretty profound. Yeah, that's the first line. There's a book by Martin Amis called Money. And I think this is cheating a little bit. I think it's the second line, but I called Money. And I think this is cheating a little bit.

I think it's the second line, but I love it. But I'll tell it to you anyways. It's a reasonably unpleasant sort of character. But he just says it's the first line. And then the second line is, unless I specifically state otherwise, I am always smoking. Basically, second line of the book, setting up the entire book. I love that. good yeah i like i mean yeah first lines of songs would be pretty good and i imagine tim would get pretty excited

by that too but first lines of books movies i'm less i'm less sure about for because it's a because it's not a word necessarily a word driven medium right i like this i think i'm more excited about this than brady by the sounds of it. Thanks, Tim. I appreciate it. This is where your early compliments are paying off for you. We should travel the States together. We should. I hear North Dakota is great this time of year. LoganandTimontheroad.com.

Grab it now. I think this is a good, because you can, you can discuss it, but then you could also, where it's possible, pull in an author and say, and talk to them about it. Why did you choose this line? Was it for, but then you could also, where it's possible, pull in an author and talk to them about it. Why did you choose this line?

Was it for? They might say, well, it was rather arbitrary in the end. And the dramatic readings. Yeah, I had the first line for years, and then I finally had the second line. Like Paul Oster, for instance, writes one line. He writes it in notepad, and then when the line's perfect, he turns to his typewriter and types in the line, turns one sentence, goes back to his notepad and keeps going. When line's perfect he turns to his typewriter and writes types in the line turns one sentence goes back to his notepad and keeps going when that's perfect goes to the time so that's so tortured i love it oh yeah it's so gorgeous and he writes on this paper that even the notepad is that little graph paper you know the tiny squares so he's writing carefully and

it's why his books are so word perfect i I love that. No, I do. Despite my obvious lack of shown enthusiasm, I am very enthusiastic about this idea. It's made for podcasting because it's all about words, language. I think it would be a big hit. First lines, first lines. I don't know about the name. Yeah. Because I think a lot of people would think you mean insipid

and that's like a very negative little different yeah so i i don't i don't know if you nailed the name yeah call me ishmael is a good name but that's already been taken by some other project that someone's got going on the side but uh i do like it i do like it i mean yeah opening line opening line is good yeah very good i tell you what should we should we let someone else have an? Should we let one of our Patreon supporters have an idea, which is a little tradition at the end of the show? Love that. So, in fact, coincidentally, this idea has come from Stewie from London, Ontario in Canada.

We have a lot of ideas come from Canada, creative people there. And before I get to the idea, which I like very much, Stewie also shared an anecdote, which seems fitting for today's episode and I think all three of us will enjoy. Stewie says, last summer two of my friends and I took a road trip down to Nashville to see the great solar eclipse. It was an amazing experience and we had lots of fun along the way. While there one of my friends told us about a podcast called Whatever Happened to Pizza at McDonald's which is a satirical investigative journalism podcast about the pizza McDonald's used to serve. This podcast inspired us to take a six-hour detour on our trip to Pomeroy, Ohio, one of the last McDonald's in the world to still serve the

original recipe pizza. Since the summer, that McDonald's has stopped serving this pizza, which makes the trip even more worthwhile. The pizza itself was mediocre, but the trip itself was loads of fun. I love the idea of that. There's nothing, the only thing better than a road trip story is a road trip for something truly pointless and obscure, like to go to one of the last McDonald's in the world that serves pizza. I do like this. I've never heard. Have you ever heard of pizza at McDonald's? No, it's big in North Dakota, apparently. Logan, is this a thing? I don't think ever came to australia but is it a thing you're familiar with you know this is this is huge news to me huge news yeah i mean i think we're late

to the party let's stop wow anyway i'll read you the idea that stewie has sent in and the reason i like this is because it's actually very much based on an idea that i've had in the past and have talked about a lot with my wife and never did anything about and never bought any domains hang on wasn't that the idea is that just no that was just a story get to know you yeah cool stuff that was his anecdote that was his like tell me something interesting about yourself this is his idea i love this idea his idea is called meeting the median this podcast would look at interesting data sets and find the person that is the median point in that set. So much media is often focused on extremes like the most or the least of a population. This podcast would look at the median and explore why exactly those people fall exactly

in the middle. For example, it could look at the household that drinks the median amount of coke in a year and look at how they perceive their soda consumption. It could also help personify the average person in a population like the person who spends the median amount of time a year and look at how they perceive their soda consumption. It could also help personify the average person in a population, like the person who spends the median amount of time commuting to work, putting in perspective how long exactly the commute was. Bravo. Bravo. I love it. So, I like this. This is like finding the absolute statistical most typical people in our population using certain criterias and making a show about them. Logan, do you think in most things you would be a median or a high or a low? Do you think of yourself as an average Joe or in what categories do you think you're a median? I'm six foot. So I guess that's a bit above average,

but not much. I never think of you as being six foot. And then I always remember, hang on, no, Logan is taller than I think. It would be interesting to take the data with your Adidas pants because you see yourself as an extreme Adidas sweatpant wearer. But I wonder if we actually looked at the entire nation, you might come out as a median. No, I could. I mean, it's interesting because the median, right, like it's in the middle of the set.

So I'm trying to figure out, I'm like almost a little more comfortable discussing the average. And I can't remember like, you know, how to kind of cut the difference between the median and the mean, right? Can you guys give me a little refresher on that? I know one is the middle and the other one is the average of the whole, isn't it? Yeah, one is if you add all the numbers together and then average it out. And the other one is if you take all the people who are more than you and all the people who are less than you so when you do the median it means the real outliers don't affect the result the same

way that if you're doing an average right so if you were doing them if you were doing the you know right average salary all the millionaires and billionaires in the world would would skew the number but if you're doing the median salary the millionaires don't have quite such an impact because there's not many of them. There is a sense of putting together a profile, like the amount of hours watching television in a home or the amount of devices in a home or the amount of Coca-Cola in a home, I guess.

You could build together a profile of the kind of medium Mandy. You know what I mean? Like a person who's the medium of a whole range of things and then you could compare and contrast, trust yourself to them. I think the interesting thing about listening to this podcast would also be like applying it to yourself, wouldn't it? I like to think I watch less than average amount of television compared to people.

And then when you find out what the truth is and where you really lie, and that set is always very interesting. Right. Just the exposure of the fact of what the median is, that would be great. One of the more sort of like memorable books that I read in the last couple of years was called Beyond Average, I think, by a guy called Todd Rose, Dr. Todd Rose. And it was this exploration of how, you know, the average is sort of a faulty premise. Have you guys heard this story about the fighter jets and sizing them for fighter pilots?

Have you heard this story? No, no. Oh, it's a quick one. It's a good one. So, you know, back in, I guess, sort of towards the end of World War II, when people were trying to replenish and update their air forces, they did a huge study where they measured the sort of elbow to hand, hand to shoulder, every possible measurement you could of all the fighter pilots. And then they tried to redesign the new seats out of the average of all the 2,000 plus fighter pilots that they surveyed. And guess how many people actually fit the measurements?

Go ahead. None, I guess. Exactly. Zero. And crashes went way up. And it was this horrible situation. They even made a model, I believe they named the model Norm, right? Like Normie. What was the problem with that method? In the book, they talk about it as just we have jagged profiles. The second you start taking all of these averages across someone, right, there are short people with long arms and long arm people who are very tall and any number of permutations. And so the odds of actually fitting across any sort of like advanced set of data is

almost zero. And in this case, it was zero. What happened was, is the reason that we all have adjustable car seats in our cars was an Air Force innovation. So, the fact that you can sort of negotiate each piece of your seat is a byproduct of this sort of, you know, first failed and then succeeded study. And so, it even went on to, that's what allowed women to enter the Air Force, which is kind of cool, right? Because, you know, they were very different than all the measurements taken. So the innovation was they made the seats adjustable and so forth.

That was the way forward. That seemed quite logical. Why didn't they do that from the beginning? Yeah. I guess you're trying to cut a corner by getting the average and it doesn't work. Tim, if only you were in charge of the Air Force, we wouldn't have had these problems in the first place.

How many times have I said that to you? I know, I know. So just finishing off on Stewie's idea, I like it. I think what Stewie thinks is the strength of his idea is in fact the weakness of his idea. And he makes the point himself. He says so much media is often focused on extremes like the most or the least. So he wants to get away from that and look at the average

and the thing in the middle, the median. But there is a reason the media concentrates on those extremes, the most and the least. And that is because they are the most interesting. Things that are normal and average usually are more common. Everyone has spent time with people who consume a normal amount of Coca-Cola.

Most people in my life, I like to think consume a normal amount of Coca-Cola. Most people in my life, I like to think consume a normal amount of Coca-Cola. But the story you remember, the story you want to share, the amazing story is, for example, Professor Polyakov, Martin Polyakov, who's the chemistry professor in my videos

we've talked about before, has never ever once in his life ever had a single taste of Coca-Cola. He doesn't know what it tastes like. That's amazing. That's really interesting. When people find that out, they think it's amazing or if i told you i i know someone who drinks 90 cans of coke a day you're like oh my goodness i want to see that person i want to hear that person i want to know why they do it they have a story you want to hear but if i tell

you oh you're not going to believe this man i know this guy and he drinks like a can of coke every few days like just a normal amount you don't want to know any more than that like i don't i'm not interested in hearing about why he drinks a normal amount of coca-cola because what's his name where does he live because that's totally normal so like i think a podcast about medianness is interesting and can be surprising as well oh i wouldn't have thought that was the median that's a really interesting i would have thought it was higher i would have thought it was lower what an interesting tale but then meeting the person who personifies normalness i think you're giving yourself a challenge to make it interesting because it's not unusual or interesting and most people when they want to be entertained seek out things that are away from the norm right one argument against that

might be to say though sure films that in that include massive disasters or super marvel figures and all the rest of it the extremes are highly popular but the things that persist soap operas and so forth on television often have very average people i think about neighbors which is an austral Australian soapy that's played for a long time here in England, particularly it was very, very popular. And it's about a normal suburban court. You know what I mean?

And there's normal things happening and people living lives and so forth. You know what I mean? It's relatable. Well, the biggest pop star in the world is Tom Hanks, who's kind of just normal. But even soap operas feed on drama. They don't feed on the banality of let's go for

lunch and have a sandwich and then just do our working day in the office and type up a letter for the boss oh spoiler alert they they they feed off like the drama of human life like you know infidelity or death and things like that yeah and and when a soap opera starts flagging in the ratings that's when they'll start doing something like have a massive explosion at the pub or a train crash and that. So even soap operas that you think of as like the personification of banality depend on not being normal. But banality isn't the medium, like because explosions do happen

and car accidents do happen from time to time. So banality would be you know what i mean nothing happening in your life which is reasonably rare otherwise you watch the news something's happening somewhere all right well let's say i'm guessing that the median amount of coca-cola that a person drinks in a week is three cans right let's say it's three cans that sounds normal to me but it sounds like a lot but anyway okay well okay what has someone who drinks two or three cans of coca-cola gonna gonna have to say about their coca-cola consumption that is interesting to you why why do they drink it and what i mean why don't they drink it every day like do they buy lunch

every day and they have dinner every day do they have beer at other times it's it's not an out and out interesting thing of itself but it's a struggle it's a you know i can tell already from you it's like a total struggle i'm boring myself asking and and the only way you're going to make it interesting is to find out something interesting about them like already you're probing outside of the of the interview subject to desperately try and find something about them that makes them interesting because being the median is uninteresting that's true except except it's i guess it's metadata so it's on a large scale but but still yeah logan what do you reckon i think i mean per usual i side with tim um obviously but the i just need to break it off of real people because against my better judgment i kind of agree with brady in that you know the guy who drinks an average amount of cokes might not be

interesting and what his motivations are might not be. However, if he was a device that exposed sort of the median across a lot of things, especially things that I don't know the median of, right? Like the median. So, you sort of concoct a narrative where he or she goes through the world and just keeps encountering the sort of average of everything. And by virtue, you know, we sort of have this character that we get to see. Somebody said explosions earlier. I don't know how many explosions there are on average in a town, but this person encountered it because they were in the right spot at the right time. So we got our sort of sensationalism back there.

But even in Logan's like altruistic attempt to make our median person interesting, he has made that person exceptional by making them the median in so many categories, which in itself would make them an exceptional person because who could be the median of everything? Again, you've become exceptional. We seek out the exceptional and we seek out interesting stories. And interesting stories are usually by definition stories that we don't see or hear like it's something different from our everyday experience like pizza at mcdonald's we seek it out logan before we lose you to your actual real job and working day you've been you've been a great guest it's been great hearing your ideas tell thank you let the people who are listening if they want to

find out a bit more about your real work your ted ad stuff and call me ishmaelel, tell them what you're up to and where they should go to check out some of this stuff. Thanks for having me, guys. It's been awesome. Yeah, if anyone out there would like to check out TED-Ed, we create animated lessons around various subject matter experts, publishing three a week. And that's on YouTube and on the TED-Ed.com website. And then my wife and I have a really fun sort of nights and weekends project called Call Me Ishmael. We brought it up in the show, but Call Me Ishmael is the opening sentence of Moby Dick. And we actually gave Ishmael a real phone number. So people call Ishmael and leave him messages about books that they love. And we're also, Brady, I think I've

told you about this, but we're working on spinning that up into actual phones that get placed into libraries, bookstores, coffee shops, English classrooms, etc. And so we're having a good time making those in our apartment in New York. So check those out. Ted Ed, call me Ishmael. And thanks again for having me, guys. Brady was showing me Call Me Ishmael. And I just think it's a fantastic idea. I was loving it.

Thank you. Yeah, it's a joy. It's very addictive going and looking like you've got them all like sitting up there, for example, on YouTube and you can just watch one after the other where these people phone in and tell these sometimes quite emotional and touching stories about their relationships with various books. And it's very addictive. They're very bite-sized to eat.

Like you could sit there and just graze on these videos for quite a while. That's what I really like about them. It's a great thing you guys have made. Yeah, it's brilliant. Thank you. Are you going to come on the show again sometime? I'd love to. I got a list of...

I told you I was just worried that I was going to say one that you guys already said. No, no. No, we loved them. You're welcome back anytime. Thanks, guys. Yeah, it's really cool. Thanks for coming on, man. We really appreciate it.

Thanks, Tim.