The Unmade Podcast - 3: Spontaneous

Episode Date: September 12, 2017

Be 'inspired' by our conversation and check out Fracture — 10% off with this link : https://www.fractureme.com/podcast Today's ideas include something spontaneous, axioms (by Tim's definition), competitions, and famous people who lost their mojo. Support us on Patreon - like Dominic does: https://www.patreon.com/unmadeFM Discuss this episode on reddit: https://redd.it/6zmfuw USEFUL LINKS Seinfeld: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seinfeld Axioms: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_axioms Proverbs and sayings: http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/proverbs.html An example of Tim's band 'cameraship' - feel free to Fracture this with Tim's permission and send us a picture: https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5990824849fc2b4c4fe4211b/t/59b46c6fa8b2b050d1de70b0/1504996480584/Beastie+Boys+in+1995.jpeg?format=1000w Go here for a Fracture: https://www.fractureme.com/podcast Had it, Lost it - via Trainspotting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQD-dXfHrvk Fonzie Jumps the Shark: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvGopsM1G9g Kevin Costner in Waterworld: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpKbULrB9Z8 The Three Amigos Movie Trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUTl8DSYUQA Marlon Brando: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marlon_Brando

So I guess we should talk about our ideas for a podcast. Yes, indeed. That's kind of what we do when we eventually start. I have one based on actual events. Yes. Because for people who don't know, we're recording like on a Friday morning for me, and you thought we had arranged to record, which we hadn't. So I was just downstairs having my eggs on toast for breakfast, and I got a phone call from you on FaceTime. And I opened up FaceTime. And there was

Tim sitting at his desk with his microphone and his headphones looking all fresh faced and enthusiastic about the day ahead. And I immediately knew what had happened. And I'm like, hello, Tim. And you're like, hey. And I'm like, do you think we're recording today? And you're like, yeah. I'm like, we didn't arrange it. And then because I'm a nice guy, I agreed we'd do a recording anyway. But this is what's given me my idea. This is a podcast maybe called The Unexpected Podcast or Spontaneous or something. And it's basically an agreement you have amongst yourselves to be able to call each other any time when an idea occurs to you and just record 10 minutes of podcast wherever the other person is.

If they're out in their car or on the toilet or whatever. If you've just got a cool idea or something you want to talk about or something you've just thought of, you phone the other person up and immediately start recording. That's a great idea. I love that idea. That's pretty cool. Very good idea. Did the idea just come to you this morning?

Yeah. Well, it came to me when you called me up and wanted to do a podcast I wasn't ready for. That's fantastic. There are many things, episodes and podcasts that are given the perception of this, but I'm not sure they genuinely occur that way. Like they begin with a phone call saying, hey, Bill, it's me, Jeff. Actually, I know what does it. Jerry Seinfeld's Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee does that.

It begins with a phone call. Hey, remember I'm coming around? And he says yes. And then suddenly, you know, he pulls up out the front. And it sounds artificial, even though it's designed to sound the opposite of artificial. I think that's a new record for the shortest time it's taken you to bring up Jerry Seinfeld.

Oh, I'm sorry. Can I say, just as a little diversion before we talk more about my unexpected podcast idea, I've been away from Australia for a long time now, and you obviously still live in Australia. And one of the things that I find really strange about Australia now that I look back at it as kind of still my home country and the best country in the world, but a country I've left, is Australians' obsession with Jerry Seinfeld and the best country in the world but a country i've left is australians obsession with jerry seinfeld and the tv show seinfeld it's like the tv show that time forgot except in australia where it's still like the absolute coolest most desired guys show and i know so many people who still think seinfeld is completely brilliant in australia whereas like for the rest

of the world it's just some old show that happened a long time ago and no one really talks about anymore that's a fascinating observation which i've i feel similarly about the simpsons but perhaps about my own culture like the simpsons feels like something that happened back in the 90s yeah and yet it's still on television it keeps going but i so i can resonate with it but i've been watching a bit of Seinfeld lately. Yeah, well, you're Australian. It's on every night at seven o'clock on every channel. It was Australia Day the other day, so I flipped on Seinfeld. It's like the rest of the world stopped sending TV shows to Australia after Seinfeld, so you're just stuck watching that.

There is a sense, as many others listening in other parts of the world will find this astonishing, but up until reasonably recently australia had five channels and that was it and then cable has been in there for about a decade and then it's only now that netflix and these things have come about really only in the last three years but even australian netflix is a much reduced netflix from it's just all episodes of Seinfeld well that's right and the cable channels the cable channels are all just 24 7 Seinfeld that's an interesting observation you have no idea how much I hope your podcast idea today is a Seinfeld podcast the Seinfeld podcast again anyway anyway sorry enough Australia bashing still the best country in the world and all that. So the thing about the unexpected podcast idea or spontaneous is that, as you know,

I do another podcast and it's called Hello Internet. And we do it, we record not very often. And I keep a little note in my phone of ideas whenever something annoys me or I have a funny thought or a topic that I think we should discuss. I write it down. And by the time we get to record an episode and I pull out that list and we decide what we're actually going to talk about, I would say 80 to 90% of those things I no longer want to talk about.

Like sometimes I've even forgotten what it was. Like I've written some note that I don't understand because it's so cryptic and I have no idea what was on my mind or my passion for it's gone or it no longer seems relevant, things like that. And in some ways that's good, it acts as like a filter. But in other ways, I think maybe it's a missed opportunity because there were things I had interesting things to say about and funny ideas and it could have been quite good

if we'd captured my mood at the time, but that mood is gone. So by having our spontaneous idea, any time I'm like, you know, I've got my hackles up or I've got something funny to say and likewise for you, you just phone up the other person and just like record straight away. And then maybe once a week or once a month, you put together the montage of all the spontaneous calls we had. I wonder if there's a title for this that can be drawn from a,

it's really a mutual dictaphone. So lawyers in particular have dictaphones and they record things, letters, that are then transcribed. This is sort of like a podcast in your vein, is sort of a mutual dictaphone. It's calling up someone and saying, let's dictaphone this idea, but then that is the final product. Yeah.

There it is. And it's also like a dialogue. It's not just a monologue into a... I mean, you could do that. You could just do monologues and make that into a podcast, which is a good idea in itself, just someone's dictaphone thoughts. But I always think podcasts are better with a dialogue, so it's sort of like a dialogue dictaphone.

I think Spontaneous is a good name, or The Unexpected Podcast. Spontaneous. Yeah, that is good. Hard word to spell, though. That's right. As a variation, you could do car conversations, because i wonder if people speak in a particular way when they're on the phone in the car um using the hands-free driving along i don't know i think you'd have health and safety issues with that so coming back to spontaneous the thing is i think like i've got

these friends right that play this game called force, where once a day you can use a force tweet on your friend. So if they say something that you find amusing or comes out wrong or whatever, if you say force tweet to them, they have to tweet the sentence they just said with no context, no explanation, no indication that they've been forced to tweet it. That's a clever idea. Yeah, it's quite funny. Does it often produce interesting results? Yeah, well, it does. Yeah, because if someone says something embarrassing or silly or that just sounds funny in isolation, you'll just say, force tweet, and you can use it once a day on your friend.

And they have to do it. And then the rest of the public will read the tweet and be like, what the heck? That's really strange. But it's an ironclad rule. I don't play this game, by the way. I think it's suicidal. But I think the rule with spontaneous would be if you get a call from the other person, you have to answer it and have to talk for at least five minutes of podcastiness.

The first thing I would say is regarding force tweet, which is that you're able to hashtag force tweet. In other words, it does have that asterisk next to it that says, I've been made to tweet. No, no, no. Is that right? No, there's none of that. Oh, right.

That's what makes it so... That is suicidal. Yeah, that's what makes it so funny. You could soften it a little bit and you could do it three times for them a day and they get to choose which one of them is the weakest, but, you know, the potentially less career ending. But, yeah, yeah.

But I like the idea in terms of spontaneous in terms of are you saying that if the person answers and it's you do you have is it obvious to them in other words you're saying okay spontaneous here we go or could you be calling just to say in other words is the element of surprise part of the game it would be like oh hi tim it's brady uh i just want to do i just want to have a quick spontaneous chat and then it would be go you'd be talking like so the person at the the person making the call would have to have some kind of technical setup where they could be recording straight away so you couldn't say hey Tim let's do a spontaneous and then we'd spend an hour and a half setting up our microphones which we just did earlier it would be more like you would have to it would have to be a bit more

rough and ready I think you have found the flaw in this idea and it's a technical flaw well yeah it would you'd have to have something technical in place on your phones and stuff but it lends itself to people who have the ability to be able to talk about something quickly to to jump on an idea and to go with it yeah without preparation and and forethought well i think that pretty much sums up this podcast, so I think we'd be all right. No, that's true. Yeah. That's true. All right, let's hear what your idea is,

and it better not be about Seinfeld. It's not about Seinfeld. There's nothing related to Seinfeld. Right. My idea is called Axiomatic. Right. It's a podcast which explores the truth and history and application of famous axioms.

It's a little bit of a Mythbusters experience. But with a really boring name. With a really boring name, that's right. Related to axioms. Let me mention a slightly more legendary show than Seinfeld, which is The Brady Bunch. And one legendary aspect of The Brady Bunch. Yeah. And one legendary aspect of The Brady Bunch from many,

many years ago is Mr Brady, who had an axiom for every occasion. The Brady Bunch movie, which was a 90s movie, which sent up a satire on The Brady Bunch, which was very funny. Yeah. Had Mr Brady, and he was coming out with this rather meaningless axioms, such as, wherever you go, kids, there you are, which is meant to sound profound and which is quite profound, which I enjoy.

So the idea is there are a million of these. Are they axioms? I know what an axiom is, though, but sometimes there are axioms and I know what an axiom is, though, but sometimes there are axioms and other things are just like, you know, words of wisdom, like, you know, Confucius says or whatever. They're not axioms, are they? They're just like pearls of wisdom, whereas axioms are like a set of rules,

like mathematics has axioms. So like an axiom could be A plus B will always give you the same as B plus A. That's right. That's right. And so I am talking, I'm not talking about mathematics. I'm talking about pearls of wisdom. But I'm talking about pearls of wisdom that are a cut above. In other words, that have a, I don't want to say self-evident truth about them,

because if they're self-evident, then they're pointless to talk about. But they have a tried and true sense of truth about them because if they're self-evident, then they're pointless to talk about. But they have a tried and true sense of truth about them and that have entered into the lexicon. So you mean things like a chain is only as strong as its weakest link or a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. That's right. Right. And they are worthy of reanalysis.

Yeah. Is it true? And I think there's a conversation to be had, an interesting conversation exploring firstly one aspect of the podcast is the etymology of it. So where does this saying come from? How did it come into being? What is its history?

What is the recording of its first use? Is there a particular famous person that said this phrase and all those? So there's the factual side of it, which I think is quite interesting. The second side of it is the application of when is it used most often? Is it something that is, do we tire of it? Is it the sort of thing do we reach for? Do we not reach for it under what circumstances? Then the other one is around testing it and somehow finding a way.

And I think there could be some humour found in trying to find different ways to test axioms and whether they hold up and whether they have truth i just can't decide if these are axioms or not i like they're like proverbs aren't they or what else i mean i'm gonna look up what an axiom is i would think of these more like a proverb or a i'm saying an axiom i've got perhaps they are i'm looking it up the word axiom comes from the Greek word axioma, a verbal noun from the verb axion, which means to deem worthy, but also to require. So there's a sense of the axios being in balance and therefore having the same value as worthy or proper.

I'm not sure these are axioms, but I know what you mean, and I like the idea of exploring them because they're good fun. And also sometimes you get two different proverbs or axioms that like directly contradict each other which is always a fun a fun thing it says here the greek philosophers for them an axiom was a claim that could be seem to be true without any need for proof so it's like a self-evident truth yeah they're like the base they're like they're like the base rules they're the lowest rules upon which all other knowledge is built. Yes, and particularly wisdom.

So one premise of the podcast is to talk about are these of assistance to us? Is this helpful or is this actually unhelpful? You're right. I was just looking at another example. The one that came up when I did a Google was a statement or proposition, which is regarded as being established, and the example they give is that playing sport builds character. So, like, that's something people say to you. You know, it's good to play sport because it builds character. But, you know,

is that true? I don't know. All right. I'm with you. I like the idea. I like the idea. I think you're kind of over intellectualizing it a bit. I think there's a lot to play with there. All the different cliches and all the different sayings and all the different things we're told in life you know exploring them and discussing them in a bit more depth it'd be quite good and it would also be good because they could be like the titles of each episode like there is an episode called sport builds character cheaters never prosper and things like that you know and then you could look at all the times that people who who did cheat things like that. So I like it. I like it. I think it might need a bit of rebranding. Right.

I think you came into it like a little bit too clever, but the actual idea I think is sound. I'd love to know, for instance, so they're saying, I mean, this is not quite an axiom, but the notion of don't upset the apple cart, that's not actually an axiom at all. It's just a cliche. I'd be interested to know whereom at all. It's just a cliche. I'd be interested to know where it comes from. No, but that would be one you could explore because then there's the opposite. There's the other people who say, you know, change is as good as a holiday.

So for every one, there's always a conflicting one. There's a particular film by the name of Smoke, and I'm looking at the side of the spine of it here, and one of the great phrases in it is God is in the details. I always look at the details. And then, of course, there's the famous the great phrases in it is, God is in the details. Always look at the details. And then, of course, there's the famous axiom, well, the devil is in the detail. So either God is in the details or the devil is in the detail.

They both can't be true at the same time. Well, they could both be there, couldn't they? The other one that came to mind as I was pondering this idea is, again, it's probably not an axiom, but it's cold hands, warm heart. Where does that come from?'s cold hands, warm heart. Where does that come from? Why cold hands, warm heart? Is it just a nice, encouraging thing to say to a person who's got cold hands? Yeah, it's like when you're saying having a bird poo on your head brings good luck.

I mean, obviously it doesn't bring good luck, but it's a nice thing to say to someone when they've just had a bird crap on their head. Right, right. So it's just like something terrible has happened to you. I'm going to just lie and say it's a lovely positive thing. But another good example of a contradiction is too many cooks spoil the broth. Many hands make light work. That's right.

Yes. Although the cook, particularly it's the things that make the cooks clash is not their hands. It's their minds. It's the choices. So there's too many cooks means too many people dictating, whereas the hands is actually only one person dictating, but we need lots of people to carry out those things. So they're not necessarily contradictory.

So we need many hands as long as they're not all barking around, you know, like a ferocious cook. You see, man, this is fantastic. There's certainly questions to be asked. So, anyway. I think it's good. I think people would like it. It doesn't, like, excite me in a way that I would want to make it.

I think this just goes to show I get more excited by, like, the concept and, like, the format. And you get more excited by, like, the content and the details. I'm the cook. and you get more excited by the content and the details. I'm the cook. I'm the cook having the ideas and you're like the many hands of the waiters who can now go out and just make it and do the hard yards and research all the sayings and stuff.

You're a visionary, man. You're an ideas man. I'm an ideas man. I'm an ideas man. I am. Visionary, I'm not so sure. Then again, birds of a feather flock together. But be careful because cheetahs never prosper.

All right. All right, Tim, are you ready for your first sponsorship here on the Unmade podcast? I'm very ready. I've never been more ready. All right. Well, this episode has been brought to you by fracture which is a photo decor company that turns your digital images into thoughtful gifts or keepsakes by printing them directly onto glass have you heard of these tim you must have if you listen to podcasts i have heard of them i have but i've not seen one physically um do they look good they do i have one i have one in in front of me because I've just ordered one as a gift.

I won't tell you who the gift is for and stuff in case the person's listening and it'll ruin the surprise. Very wise. They're very clever. They're very nifty. So it's like, I don't know, if you've just heard of them but not seen them, the pictures on the glass but on the backside of the glass are kind of like, it looks like it would be like a framed picture but without a frame,

and it comes with this like foam back thing so you can put it up on the wall but the best thing about it is it's so easy to make them because you just go onto the website and you like upload pictures and I was thinking you know you're a bit pretentious arty guy I imagine you're someone who takes lots of photos that you think are pretty good but I can also imagine they sit on your phone and your computer for a long time so you must be someone who has a bunch of photos that you think are pretty good, but I can also imagine they sit on your phone and your computer for a long time. So you must be someone who has a bunch of photos that you want to get on display, surely. I do, I do. I am pretentious and I take fantastic photos and I have many of them. What are some of your best ones that you think you should have fractured?

Oh, I have some pictures of... Oh, I should have thought about this, shouldn't I? Give me a sec. Like I imagine you're someone who when you drive past like a field and you see like an old tractor, you would like take some arty picture looking through the leaves and stuff and get it all framed nicely. Do you do that or are you a bit too lazy for that? I'm not the kind of person who's drawn to natural pictures.

I'm not the guy who takes a picture of the sunset. I kind of like urban environments, so I like band photos. I used to take a lot of photos of bands. Back before iPhones, I'd sneak my camera into gigs and take photos of different bands. I do that less, but I do like the indoor, more urban sort of photos, so of people, but in unusual situations. And I like to think I have pretty

good cameraship, but I think everyone thinks they have pretty good cameraship. Is cameraship a word? I'm pretty sure it's not, but you could, so you could have a fractureship wall of pictures of like, you know, five or six of your favourite band photos could be like above your desk and that if you were to get them made, is that something you'd consider doing maybe? Absolutely. In fact, I'm quite drawn to the black and white photos right so i i have a whole range of black and white photos and often we'll take photos of sort of three things from different angles and then you can hang them side by side on the wall we've done that or we do that with a bit of blue tack around the kitchen and on the fridge but i like the fracture because you could actually make them look pretty good by what i can see well also if that'd be good for your office too because you can't really just stick bits of paper on the wall in the office.

You want it to look a bit more professional. So these are what you need to do. These are what you need to get for your band photos. This is what you should do and this is also what everyone listening should do. They should go to fractureme.com slash podcast. fractureme.com slash podcast. So that's fractureme, all as one word, .com slash podcast.

And then there'll be like a little survey thing there. Tell them where you came from, like which podcast you came from, preferably this podcast. And if you do that, you will get 10% off your first order. So you can like fill your boots and order a whole wall full of fractures and you'll get 10% off your first order. So you can like fill your boots and order a whole wall full of fractures and you'll get 10% off fractureme.com slash podcast.

So whether it's a family photo or a gift or a bunch of pretentious black and white arty photos taken at a gig in the 90s that, let's be honest, are a little bit out of focus. It doesn't matter. This is the place to do it. How did you know they were slightly out of focus i just i could tell i could tell but that's okay that's part of your look that's part of your like you know aesthetic and i'm sure it will look slightly better on a fracture now we move to the second half of our show where we discuss some of

the ideas that perhaps are a little bit more tongue in cheek. Man, I haven't really got one that's like that. I haven't got a silly one. I've got another brilliant one. Wow. Because I didn't have time to prepare. Remember, you just phoned me this morning when I was having my breakfast and said, oh, we're doing a podcast. So I haven't prepared, but I've just had another idea that I like.

So I want to talk about that one. But it is kind of it is a bit more out there. So it does fulfill the criteria of being like the second half zany idea. Now I like to have a name. I'm going to call this one competition. And what this is, is each week or fortnight or whatever the schedule is, we'll call each other up and do it, do the podcast. but what we do is together like as a team we just enter all the competitions that we can enter that we found out about that week whether they're like online or on the back of a cereal packet or whatever they are like you know some there might be a competition that's being held at the moment to name a boat and there's a competition

where you have to draw a picture for a TV show and things like that. Every competition that we've been able to find out about, we just enter and we discuss our entry and how we're going to do it and how we think we're going to win. And then we just send off all our competition entries that week. And then, you know, a few weeks later or months later, we find out whether or not we actually ever win any of them. But it's all about entering competitions. That's not a bad idea. I can see the energy in the idea. Are you a person who enters competitions? No, never. Neither am I. But- Why not? Why don't you enter competitions? Entering competitions is one of those things

I never get around to it. And I always feel it's a waste of time. And yet I have friends who always enter competitions and always win things in their competitions. So- Like what sort of competitions do they enter and what do they win? Well, they win things like in the shopping centre. You're walking through a mall or a shopping centre and you, you know, there's a competition and really it's just a means for a company to, you know, get your name and details and add it to their waiting list. But they fill one out and they win the product.

They win some guttering for their house. I have a good friend and he and his wife, they live in Australia and they won a beautiful boat trip through Europe, through Germany and around the whole area. And they were flown over there. It's just one of those enormously blessed kind of activities for instance, the other side of the world. And it was entirely random.

And again, it was in a shopping centre, just filling out something and putting it in a big box. And you never think you're going to win. No. And it would be fascinating to see how successful. You sometimes see TV shows about those people, don't you, who like enter everything, don't they? They'll cut out every coupon on a cereal packet, every single thing they can do. Like they become career people who get vouchers and do everything.

And they, you know, some of them like can almost earn a living from doing this kind of thing. I don't want to just, you know, us fill out our name and enter like a raffle. I mean, any numpty can do that as long as they don't value their postal or email address and don't mind getting deluged. But I want them to be competitions we enter that require some level of creativity or cleverness. Like it's not just going to be, okay, I've got a voucher here. Let's put our name and address and send it off. It'll have to be ones where you have to think and do something interesting. Otherwise, it wouldn't make for much of a podcast.

Is an example that kind of idea where a travel company might say, right, in 25 words or less, what is your most amazing holiday memory or something like that? And you have to write something. Exactly, exactly. And newspapers and things are doing that kind of thing all the time. And I mean, I use the example of naming a boat because I don't know how big a deal it was in Australia, but in the UK, one of the science organisations here

has commissioned a big multi-million pound science exploration vessel. So they asked the public to come up with a name and it became a big news story here because the winning name was Boaty McBoatface. That did make the news here. Yeah. But the idea of coming up with a name for things, you know, that's the sort of thing you and I would talk about anyway.

That's true. So why not make it a podcast? So you would talk about the competition and you'd describe your entry into the competition and you'd send it off and then you would have updates on previous competitions. This didn't hear back from this one, didn't win this one. Yeah. We have won this one. Yeah, we won one.

But you know what you could do with the podcast? Another thing you could do if the podcast, you know, became successful and had a following of any substance, you could encourage all your listeners to enter the competitions as well. And then it could be this big competition entering community. And, like, sometimes some of the listeners win and we can tell the stories of listeners who who entered and won and here's sandy smith and she actually entered that same competition as us but she won it and here's her winning entry and here's how she did it so over time the podcast could evolve away from just being us entering stuff and talking about our ideas to sharing the ideas that other

members of the community had and what entries they've done and how they've won. That could become a really interesting aspect. I wonder if there are strategies. If you were to interview these folks who perhaps are more strategic and committed to going into competitions, whether they have strategies, like insider knowledge, like, oh, whenever you're doing this, always use a pink pen.

You know what I mean? Always write in capital letters. Yeah, always post your entry on a Friday because it will arrive on a Monday and that's when they are paying the most attention to the entries and by the end of the week, they're not paying attention to the entries and there's probably a whole bunch of things like that.

And maybe over time of doing the podcast, we would start to learn those strategies and our hit rate would start improving. It could be really interesting. So is sort of like a a competition version of counting cards at the casino yeah you start to just you're just switching the averages slightly in your favor and over time your rate ends up growing enormously it would be fascinating to see and you could start a b testing you could start entering the same competition in like multiple ways and finding out what worked and what didn't. Like let's send in the same entry twice, but type one and handwrite the other one

and things like that and see what makes a difference. It would be interesting to see how many of them there are and how many others will be willing to listen. No, I mean, no, idea the i i don't agree with that because i think the way we would do it would be to be funny it wouldn't be like a for rent like i did i know i just spoke about ab testing and stuff but i think overall it wouldn't be a forensic analysis of how to enter competitions it would be like funny it would be interesting in that spirit to explore the most ridiculously or the least absurd competition or the least worthwhile in other words what is the competition that we can find that requires the most amount of effort and work for the least payoff first prize yeah

have you ever won a competition i don't think i ever have i don't think i ever won a competition? I don't think I ever have. I don't think I've won a raffle. What, you've never won a raffle? I don't think I ever have, no. Back for a period when I was working in the newspaper in Adelaide, I went through this golden period where I became invincible at raffles. And not only that, I felt invincible. Like, I just knew I was going to win them for three

or four months i was at a i was at a south australian press club luncheon where they always had a raffle after the guest speaker and i entered and this feeling came over me that i knew i was going to win wow and i won and they did like five things and i think i won first and third prize and for the next few months i kept entering all theseaffles. I don't know why I was going to so many things that involve raffles, but I was. And I just kept winning raffle after raffle. I was like, I was like I had powers. I should have probably entered loads of competitions then or bought lottery tickets, but I just felt unbeatable. And I was unbeatable. And since then, I've kind of, you know. Well, you've lost your confidence, man. See, it's that first win that gives you the confidence. The second confirms it yeah and uh and you're on a roll and now i'm an addict now i'm

an addict i just wandered the streets of england entering all the raffles i can find and squandering all my money there is a sense of going i should i should go in competitions more often it's crazy that we don't because you know aunt beryl won something once. And gosh, you really can. But of course, we never do. Hello. Oh, hey. Oh, right. Okay. You're coming through this way then?

Okay. No worries. Okay, then. Thanks a lot. All right, man. Just a cleaner coming in the middle of the night here. That could be a podcast. Tim talks to cleaners in the middle of the night.

They're not going to start hoovering are they i thought we'd just take a quick moment to mention patreon where people can support the show you go to patreon.com slash unmade fm patreon is spelled p-a-t-r-e-o-n you're going to say anything you're going to encourage people to participate, or are you just going to stay silent there at the other end? You were doing such a fantastic job. I was just saying something. I felt like you were kind of leaving me alone a bit there.

I apologise. I apologise. I'm here with you, man. Do you not want people to support us on Patreon? Is that what you're saying? I do very much want, and I'm very grateful for those who are, I must say. I thought maybe you were dedicating a minute's silence to those who have been kind enough to make donations, were you? Well, you were enunciating so carefully. I didn't want to interrupt. It was a work of art.

That's true. The spelling part is important. You can't interrupt the spelling part because that's when I want people to be taking out pencils and stuff and writing down. So they're like, you know, oh, I must write that down. There is something about the way you say it that makes me reach for a pencil to want to write it down even in front of me, even though I know it's there. I wish that was true, but the statistics show otherwise. But what I thought we would do is occasionally perhaps give a special shout out mention to a randomly chosen patron on Patreon. And today it's Dominic. Dominic is, I hate to say this,

but Dominic is from New Zealand. Wow. Yeah. And Tim and I both being Australians, you know, you know how we feel about New Zealanders. There's a list of a lot of things that I won't mention because we're affirming Dominic on this occasion. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. So, thank you to Dominic. He does live in London at the moment as an IT worker. He knows being a New Zealander living in London and working in IT is a cliche. He says so himself. He says that he loves the Unmade podcast. He likes the throwing of the ideas around. He says he's been doing the same thing with mates over beers for many years now. So it feels like something he felt like he could have been in the middle of.

Yeah. So who knows, maybe one day Dominic will become a co-host when Tim and I ran out of ideas. That would be an honour. And it would be interesting to see people in the other parts of the world, if they could pick the difference between our Aussie accents and a New Zealand accent, and you being an Aussie living in London accent and Dominic being a New Zealander living in London with a London accent, but with a New Zealand accent. Does this make sense? In fact, yeah, you're right.

We can't do a show with Dominic because I would be absolutely fuming if people said that we sounded the same. Yes. That would upset me too much. Anyway, I did invite Dominic to pitch an idea for a podcast and he said he found it quite hard. He doesn't know how we come up with so many. Well, you know, I don't know how we do either.

I think maybe we just have a low bar. But he says his idea is in the vein of Unmade would be to make a podcast called Unwatched. He says there's so much good TV these days and not enough time to watch it. So he was imagining a podcast where maybe if one of us has seen something and the other one hasn't like i could explain to you a tv show that i like but include all the spoilers and tell all the stories so like you wouldn't have to watch it and just like i'll go ahead and summarize the show for you well just let me clarify does he mean if you miss an episode no i think like what he was saying was like if there was like a whole box set like say you'd never seenASH and you weren't going to watch MASH, I would spend a whole podcast telling you about it.

So that's his idea. I'm not 100% sure about it because I think it could be a bit of a one-way conversation. Like, I feel like the person who hadn't seen the show would kind of not have much to contribute and just be asking questions or going, ooh, that sounds good. But anyway, that's what Dominic said. You know, he's from New Zealand, so at least he's trying. He is trying. And being good Australians,

we will steal New Zealand's best ideas if we're able to. If we are, yeah. I'm not sure that's one of them. I don't think that ranks up there with Pavlova and Crowded House, but it's all right. That's right. Or Russell Crowe. Actually, it probably is better than Russell Crowe.

Yeah. It's certainly better than russell crowe's band so yes anyway our thank you to dominic and to all the other supporters we have on patreon if you want to be one of them go to patreon.com slash unmade fm and who knows maybe you too will be ridiculed on the show like dominic just was. My final idea is inspired by a... Partly inspired by a movie, which a remake is coming out soon. One of my favourite films from the 90s, Trainspotting. There's a scene in Trainspotting where Sick Boy is talking to Renton

and he's philosophising about his theory of life. And he says, it's certainly a phenomena in all walks of life. And Renton says, what do you mean? And Sick Boy says, well, at one time you've got it and then you lose it and it's gone forever. And my podcast idea is called Had It, Lost It. And it explores the circumstances of people who have once upon a time had it and then they've lost it. And what happened at the moment they lost it? So is this like Steve Martin? That's right.

That's right. That's right. Well, he gives a whole list of them. So he says George Best, for example, had it, then lost it. David Bowie, Lou Reed, Elvis Presley malcolm mclaren he uses all these sort of references of folk and he says at one point they had it and then they lost it and he and i think it's interesting at what point did they lose it was there a defining moment when they lost it and i think this podcast would explore in all these different circumstances

theories of people who had it then lost it, and what caused it? What was the thing that made them lose it? Was it a particularly film so bad or a particular album that didn't sell? How do people, if they have it but then lose it, why? I get you. So, I mean, the classic example that everyone's going to be thinking of is the TV show Happy Days, obviously,

when there was the episode where Fonzie jumps the shark. But do you know what? Everyone criticises that episode. I still have vivid, vivid childhood memories of the first time I watched that episode where Fonzie jumps the shark. And as a kid, I thought it was incredible and it remains one of my favourite Happy Days episodes. To me, it was amazing.

Everyone says that's where that show lost the plot. Fair enough. But anyway, that's an example example it's a slightly different idea because there could be a podcast idea called jump the shark or lost the plot or something like that yeah that tends to be a bit predictive in other words it's something that's happening now i think they've now gone too far right my podcast idea i mean that i think that's an interesting idea but my podcast idea, I mean, I think that's an interesting idea, but my podcast idea is more a retrospective, looking back and going, any objective person, 10 objective people would all agree that this person lost it and this was the point that it happened. So we could look at the graph. Go on then, give me an example.

Well, I knew you were going to say that. You think about people that were huge and then aren't. Kevin Costner is one example. Now, in the late 80s and early 90s, Kevin Costner was pretty close to being the number one box office star. There'd be Arnold Schwarzenegger and Tom Cruise and then Kevin Costner, and those three would be up there. He made Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves. He made The Bodyguard. He made The Untouchables and and Field of Dreams, my all-time favourite film. Field of Dreams, that's right. So he had it, right? Then he made

Waterworld. Yes, he jumped the shark. So he made a film which in itself at that time was the most expensive film ever made. I don't know if it even, it probably even made back its money, but it carried such enormous baggage that his next film which is probably the moment he truly lost it and that was a film called the postman which is sort of a post-apocalyptic film i've never seen and that did no money and he was gone and he disappeared there's a theory that says you can fail once and recover but if you fail twice your history and it could be that the one two punch of water world and then the postman killed him so he really lost it on the post yeah but it's the

idea but jumping the shark to me seems a little bit different because it's almost like a quality a quality evaluation rather than being a um yeah i'm sorry man i'm struggling to see the difference but let's let that go my problem with your idea though, is it feels like it's going to be the same discussion every time. So-and-so made a bunch of good songs, then they made two or three bad albums, and they were never as good again. So-and-so made a bunch of good films, then made a couple of bad films, and they were never the same again. So-and-so wrote a bunch of good books, then wrote a couple of bad books, and they were never the same again. How is this podcast going to be interesting? I think the big picture is not very interesting.

So the big picture snapshot is just exactly as you've sort of characterized it. But I think if you hone in, the hone in on the particular moment they lost it, can you find a particular reason? And if you can, look at it. Why did they lose it there? Tim, you're begging for Jump the Shark. That's what the Jump the Shark analogy is all about. What was the one scene or the one specific moment

that a show went from being cool to not cool? This is exactly what Jump the Shark means. It's about pinpointing like a 10-second turning point, and that seems to be what you want to do. You want to do it. Would you call this podcast Jump the Shark? Do you think that's a strong... I'm not saying I'd call it Jump the Shark.

Just your dismissal of Jump the Shark has annoyed me because then you keep coming back to the same thing. They feel like two different things in my head. I'm not able to explain sufficiently how they are. Perhaps they're merging. Perhaps they are the same thing. Let me ask you this. When in Happy Days do you think they jump the shark?

I don't think Happy Days jump the shark when they jump the shark. I think they probably jump the shark well after the jumping of the shark. It would be a calling card, wouldn't it, to be a script writer. And it's sort of like, well, have you written anything? Oh, I wrote Happy Days for All Actually, I wrote the Jump the Shark episode It would be something to be proud of I would want their autograph

This is a good question When did Star Wars jump the shark? Did it jump the shark with the special editions or the prequels? That's a good question By the special editions, you mean George Lucas' constant tinkering with the original films. When he started putting in all different, you know, stupid things, like all that cluttering the background with animals and things like that. Jabba the Hutt turns up in the original Star Wars.

Yeah, you know, and all this, you know, Han shot first type stuff. I don't like that, but I enjoyed the fact that that tinkering meant that I got to see Star Wars on the big screen for the first time because the original film came out before I, you know, when I was too young to see it. So, I liked the circumstances around it, but I wasn't that annoyed, though I didn't like it. I cringed when I saw it. But I think he truly jumped the shark with The Phantom Menace.

In fact, the moment the name The Phantom Menace came out, I think that that's the film where he lost it. Even the name coming out. Do you remember when you sat to watch The Phantom Menace for the first time and you didn't know how horrible it was going to be? Surely you were excited and thought maybe this is going to be awesome. Even the first minute or two when there's lots of early lightsaber action, I was thinking maybe this is going to be cool. then it just like just kept sliding further and further downhill until three

quarters of the way through it was like oh no it's not good i tell you what would be a really interesting uh episode of your had it lost it series because this would almost this film i'm about to mention is almost like a nexus, like a rip in space-time continuum where lots and lots of Haddits all came together at once for a final Haddit before they diverged and splintered into a whole bunch of Lostits. And that is the film The Three Amigos. Because Martin Short, Chevy Chase and Steve Martin were all massive

and that film was massive. And it was like the funniest film ever. Like it was like it was it was all anyone was talking about. It was brilliant. And after that, all three of them just kind of went off the rails. They all came together and thought we're invincible. And then they all left and all kind of went a bit downhill from there. That is a fascinating observation.

That's right. Chevy Chase was huge. And by the 90s, he was gone. He was invisible. Steve Martin, too, was left playing some pretty ordinary films. Why? What was the moment? Was The Three Amigos the moment?

I do like the idea of taking it beyond just movie stars, though. Well, you could do sports stars and things like that. Politicians, politicians who sort of rose and had the world at their feet and then suddenly became... People often pinpoint a moment. They say we're suddenly after that press conference or after that particular event. That's right, a politician suddenly, they lost it.

They stopped being believable after that policy decision. When would you say you lost it? Somewhere towards the end of our first podcast, man. I'm not sure I ever had it so that's it you've got to have it to lose it that's the backhanded compliment of had it lost it is that you've had it is that you've made a mark significant enough for people to have watched the mark diminish which means you've done something one of my favorite things to talk about it in had it lost it i think would be music because i love love to see albums and measure the relative quality of albums and so forth.

So people who come out blazing and then lose it. So Oasis is one example of that. Oasis were a big band, definitely, maybe. Then they had What's the Story Morningly, which sold something around 20 million copies in America and everywhere. And then their third album, Be Here Now, is rubbish and didn't sell any. They just lost it after two albums, but they continued to go on. But everyone knows they lost it. What about had it, lost it, got it back?

Wow. And then maybe lost it again, like John Travolta. John Travolta, that's right. You're referring to Pulp Fiction as his second win? That's when he got it back again, yeah. And then he kind of went off the rails again, didn't he? Harrison Ford would probably be an interesting one to have on had it lost it.

Because he kind of has lost it, but he's almost so big that he's immune from losing it. He has a lifelong get-out-of-jail-free card. So even though he keeps making dud movies, he's Han Solo and Indiana Jones. He can do anything and he can't lose it. So even though he keeps making dud movies, like he's hand soloed Indiana Jones. Yeah. He can do anything and he can't lose it. He's a bit like the Paul McCartney of film stars.

The body of work is so strong that it doesn't matter how many crappy solo albums you make. Yeah. You are still the guy from the Beatles. You can do certain things like being in the Beatles or being in Star Wars and Indiana Jones, that just give you lifetime immunity, like a presidential pardon from jumping sharks. He's been in some pretty awful movies recently. He probably should have retired. He should have just said, well, that's it, I'm tapping out.

Yeah, but not many people have the guts to do that. Robert De Niro is another one. He definitely should have done that. Who else should have tapped out? Well, look at the people that did do it. Like Marlon Brando did it to a degree. He did do do a few later films but he pretty much bowed out near the top i've heard it said that marlon brando's biggest mistake was living there's the marilyn monroe and then there's james dean and then there'd be marlon brando except that oh hang on

no he kept going and he became massive so you know what mean? He would be in that pantheon of the most elite of Hollywood. Yeah, yeah. Whereas a lot of people remember him for being quite a big man, like a big overweight man a lot later in life. But, you know, I'm sure he was glad to be alive. If we had the choice between James Dean living on and Marilyn Monroe living on, of course you would take that, not just because of their loved ones,

but it would be interesting at least to have seen what they made if you happen to appreciate their particular movies. And I have to say, I don't really appreciate either of those movies of either of those stars. I don't think there's going to be good mileage in us doing a podcast about people we wish had died early. Oh, do you know who else I wish had died? Like, basically, we're wishing everyone would die after they make their best film or write their best song.

Then die. It's a rather macabre idea. As if their sole purpose for life is the art. They're able to cough up and then... And then not ruin it by, like, ageing like a human. Or exploring different forms of art or making money and living a content life. Yeah. No, no, no.

Loving their family. Yeah. That does nothing for me. I want you dead. I want you dead. Like a time capsule. Like, I want you to look like you looked on the poster on my wall when I was 10. That would make me feel more satisfied about my DVD collection.

That's basically what it's about. Yeah, we're bad people. We're bad people. I remember Paul McCartney saying about 20 years ago that he thought, when he was quite obviously past his peak, but was still, you know, he's one of these guys who can sell out a stadium, and he said he reckons he still had one more big hit in him. And it's 25 years later, and he didn't. He had one more big hit in him. And it's 25 years later and he didn't.

He didn't have another hit in him. Maybe he means he's going to punch someone. Maybe that's right. I'm going to... I know, that's right.