The Unmade Podcast - 50: The Torment of Tim

Episode Date: June 26, 2020

Tim and Brady discuss the 1990 American Music Awards (well, sort of). Also: repeat viewings of movies and a great idea from a Patreon supporter. YouTube version of this episode - https://youtu.be/GL5D7lAtmvQ Support us on Patreon - access bonus stuff, appear on our Wall of Thanks, and submit your own podcast idea for discussion - https://www.patreon.com/unmadeFM Join the discussion of this episode on our subreddit - https://redd.it/hg8rc9 USEFUL LINKS A VHS copy of the 1990 American Music Awards uploaded to YouTube - we do not approve of such piracy, but needs must - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Music_Awards_of_1990 Wikipedia summary of the event - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Music_Awards_of_1990 Official website of the American Music Awards - https://www.theamas.com/ Milli Vanilli - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milli_Vanilli Dumb and Dumber - https://amzn.to/2BE8eKR The Shawshank Redemption - https://amzn.to/37YtpDg LIGO - https://www.ligo.org/ Fermi Estimates - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_problem Black Cats - https://www.candystore.com/black-cats-licorice-22lbs/ Four Colour Pen - a classic - https://amzn.to/2VjPp6x Ten Colour Pen - https://amzn.to/3fWMw3n The Death Star - https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Death_Star

The year is 1990. In Adelaide, Australia, a 14-year-old boy puts a VHS tape into the machine and presses record. He's recording the American Music Awards. The 17th Annual American Music Awards. To him it sounds exotic, exciting, but it's too late at night to watch it live. Exciting. But it's too late at night to watch it live. The next morning, he witnesses the extravaganza.

A celebration of flamboyant music stars from a faraway land. This is really a surprise for me. I didn't think it was going to... I dreamt of stuff like this but never thought it was going to happen so soon. His imagination is captured. Over the coming weeks and months, even years, he watches and re-watches the program. It's a wonder the tape survives so many viewings. It shapes his young teenage mind,

fosters a lifelong love of music and popular culture. fosters a lifelong love of music and popular culture. Fast forward 30 years. The wonders of YouTube and video piracy allow that same boy, now a man, to re-watch that awards ceremony. He remembers it like it was yesterday. Every comment, every dance move, every subtle gesture. Memories are rekindled.

Emotions are stirred. As warm waves of nostalgia wash over him, he sends a message to his friend. He shares this joy, his reminiscences of a childhood wonder. You know what, he says, I think we could discuss this on the show. With giddy excitement swelling, he jots down some notes for a future episode of the Unmade Podcast. I'm a bit worried about how flat you are Tim You're sounding flat in our pre-show chat

Have you got your iced coffee? It's a bit wet out so I didn't really want to get out of the car So I made a cup of tea I've got a cup of tea here with me So we'll see A cup of tea can do a lot of magic So you didn't get an iced coffee from the shop Because you didn't want to get wet in the rain

Yeah I couldn't be bothered. Well, that shows the level of motivation and effort that Tim puts into the show, people. I better get an iced coffee just in case Brady asked me about it. No, because you've got to fire up for the civilians. Well, I'm fired up. I'm feeling, you know, calm, serene. It's like I'm in the zone, man. Well. I'm feeling, you know, calm, serene. It's like I'm in the zone, man. I've got flow. You're about to find out that you might get away with that for this episode, depending on how things go. So,

let's see. Right. All right. Why this episode? I've got an idea for a podcast, so I figured I'd go first. Okay. All right. All right. Now, no housekeeping? We're just into it? No, we're into it. Let's just fire it. Let's just get into it. That's what the people are here for. All right. Fair enough.

Fair enough. Yeah. Yes. Okay. Well, hit me. Well, funny you should say that because this idea is called torturing Tim. Now, I think in general terms, it's fair to say, both Tim and I are opposed to the concept of torture.

Very bad thing, very criminal, sometimes a war criminal act. It's a serious matter, but there is the other form of torture, which is a bit more... which is a bit less criminal. That's what I'm going for. I'm not going to be performing any criminal acts here. This is more the kind of cruelty between Australian male friends that is acceptable. That's what I'm banking on here. The acceptable face of cruelty.

No less bearable. And I'm wondering where you're going with this. All right. You are a muck. Now, Tim, for this to work, I feel like there has to be stakes. Because the general concept of this podcast is clearly me torturing you, right? Right. And there are various ways I could do that.

Yes. But for the way I'm going to experiment with a way right now as like a sort of a little demonstration. But for it to work, I feel like there have to be stakes. Otherwise, you know, what's the point? If there's no stakes, you're not going to go along with it. So, to give us some- Okay. So, here's what the ante is, right? I am putting $200 on the table right now, right?

There's a $200 fund. Right. Now, I know for a fact that your two wonderful daughters listen to the podcast. that your two wonderful daughters listen to the podcast. And I also know that they quite like stationery and like pencil cases and erasers and colour pencils and all that kind of stuff, like all girls do. So I'm going to spend that $200 on the stationery and pencil cases and erasers and whatever they want from their favourite stationery shop.

They can have whatever they want, courtesy of Brady. Well, that's not nearly enough money to satisfy their passions for stationery at their favourite shop. All right, well, let's go with that for now. Yes, okay, all right. But what happens is every time Tim makes a false step, I'm going to dock $5 or $10 from fund. So, be aware that your daughters are listening. And right now they have $200 burning a hole in their pockets,

but you could lose it for them. So, you're already setting me up to be the bad guy. Well, no, if you fulfil the requirements, you'll be the hero. Right. Okay? Okay. Right. Okay? Okay. Here's what's happening, all right? Tim, until I say so, until I finish this idea and this segment from this point on,

you are not allowed to talk. You are not allowed to comment, all right? I don't want to hear you. Don't even comment on that. You've just make a coughing noise if you've heard me. Okay. You are not allowed to talk from this point onwards. And each time you do to say something or raise a point or correct me

or just add to what I'm talking about, money will be docked from the fund. So that is the risk you are taking. All right? Now, for the next 20 minutes or so, maybe longer, I want to talk to you, Tim, about the 1990 American Music Awards. Now, this has been recorded and put on YouTube, and I've been watching it for the last couple of days, and I feel like I know a lot about it now. I've been reading a lot about it, and I've got lots of things I want to say to Tim about

it, and to you, the audience Now, just a little secret on the side Between you and me, civilians I know for a fact That Tim recorded this in 1990 Off the television onto a VHS tape And he watches it very, very regularly He watched it just this week And told me about it

He's very passionate about it. He's even got a podcast idea he wants to talk about it. That's what he's up against. All right. The 1990 American Music Awards. As described and narrated and commented on by Brady Haran. And Brady Haran alone. Can I just start by saying, the person who recorded this

and put it onto YouTube is obviously a bit of a legend. I don't know if it was Tim or not. I assume it was not. I don't know if Tim's put his copy onto YouTube, but the person that did has written underneath in classic YouTube fashion, I do not own any copyrights. This was recorded on VHS in the 90s, as if to say that's all right. And my favorite thing about watching it is this person has cut out all the ads and it gives me such nostalgia, such deja vu to watch something recorded with that abrupt start and stop whenever the ad break happens.

But it's also got the trademark miss when you forget that you have to cut out the ads and you see like the first 10 to 15 seconds of an ad. And then suddenly they've remembered it. Oh, no, I forgot. And they've paused it. So, it's got this real. I'll let you have that one. I won't dock any money for that. That's close though.

I could just see Tim weighing up. How much money am I willing to lose? All right. So, the show starts with a polar abdul song and music video you know very not very 90s and my favorite thing about it is halfway through the song the song kind of she goes off stage and it goes into this like instrumental version so that the commentator of the show like the announcer can say this is the is the 1990 American Music Awards. From the historic Shrine Auditorium in Los Angeles,

it's the 17th annual American Music Awards. And then he goes on to list everyone who's going to be in the show, whether they're going to perform or present an award or whatever. With Blatt, Michael Bolton, Bobby Brown, Charlie Daniels, Taylor Dayne, Neil Diamond.

And he lists them all and the text comes up on the screen. And I swear, it is the longest, it is longer than when Tim read through all the names of the Patreon supporters. He's just listing all these names, name after name after name. I think they're in alphabetical order. And meanwhile, on the stage, like Paula Abdul's dance team are like just doing all this like moody dancing to the instrumental.

And it just goes forever. And the show's almost over. And then when he finally gets to the end of the list, like, Paula Abdul comes back on the stage, sings another verse, a bit more dancing, and then he lists all the sponsors of the show. Brought to you by SIRS. SIRS fresh and fresh, and it tastes great. It's two minutes in one.

Mitsubishi bringing you a full line of award-winning automobiles. See them all at the Mitsubishi Motors dealers. The good time, great taste of mcdonald's that's another epic list all you know coca diet coca-cola and mcdonald's and all these things so we've got this epic list which is really like it's hit the momentum to start with anyway what happened next let's have a look at my notes here oh so many things to, so many things to say. So many things to say. I have to say, I did get a little bit curious about what the American Music Awards are, because I'm familiar with the Grammys. I thought, why do these awards even exist when you have the Grammys? And it turns out that Dick Clark made up these awards after, I think it was ABC, the television station, lost its contract to host the Grammys.

And they were like, oh, that was really lucrative. What are we going to do? They just made up their own music awards, which is, I guess, kind of genius, but kind of also cheating a bit. But anyway, that's what the American Music Awards are. They've been around quite a long time. And then our first host of the night comes on stage. Oh, what was her name? Anita someone.

Anita. Anita. My mind's gone blank. And here's our first host of the evening, Anita Baker. Anita Baker, that's it. Anita Baker Anita Baker that's it she delivers a brilliant line which is

she says this is the night we're going to say goodbye to the 80s and hello to the 90s it's going to be a great way to say goodbye to the 80s hello to the 90s so let's get going

with our first album it feels so like dated now but it's said like like so optimistically and it's such a big deal. Hello, 1990s. Obviously, 30 years later, it sounds different. And we start hearing names of bands and that.

And a band that will come up a few times in the course of my solo narration about the American Music Awards is Milli Vanilli. Milli Vanilli, the duet. They were real stars of the night. And every time their name comes up or they win an award or anything, the crowd goes absolutely wild. And the winner is...

Girl, you know it's true, Milli Vanilli! For those of you not familiar with Milli Vanilli It was later revealed, not long after this actually That they were not actually the singers of their songs They were lip syncing and other people were actually singing the songs And they were kind of just like the front men and the face of the band And it was very disgraceful for them They ended up actually, they had won a Grammy,

and they ended up having to return their Grammy award because of the disgrace. But I don't think they returned their American Music Awards. They win some tonight, which I find interesting. Anyway, next cab up the rank, and one of the early award winners. By the way, just so you know, Tim, after I finish this talk, you're not allowed to talk about the American Music Awards.

That's been clearly stated, hasn't it, before we started. You're not to talk about the American Music Awards. So these chances that are going by now are your only chance, just so you know, all right? It's not going to be like, oh, that was funny, Bradyady now let me tell you a bunch of stuff about the american music if you try to do that i will be cutting it because that defeats the whole purpose this is the only chance you will ever have on the unmade podcast to talk about the american music chords from 1990 next cab off the rank

next cab off the rank we have new kids new kids oh what are they called new kids oh for something new kids um oh new kids on the block that's it. They make an appearance. I think they win their first award of the night. I'm very familiar with New Kids on the Block because my sister was very into them, particularly at this time when this particular album came out. So I heard all these songs all the time. And the winner is...

New Kids on the time. And the winner is... New Kids on the Block! When they first get up to get their first award, one of the band members is actually missing. John is missing. He appears later on, though, and they say, don't worry, John hasn't left the band. He's just not here at the moment. And it's never explained why John isn't there for the first award.

But John is missing. John took a little more time getting ready for the, I guess, performance. So he'll be here. He's still in the group. No rumours. Another observation I've always had about New Kids on the Block, but particularly at this time, is what a weird-looking dude Danny is.

The member of the band called Danny, who just looks like a... He looks like this weird vampire. They're all so good-looking and so handsome, and he's just, like, not... I don't know if there were any you know young girls in the 90s for whom danny was their favorite member of new kids on the block but i highly doubt it sorry sorry danny i hope you're not listening um and another thing that strikes me is how serious

they are about winning this award like like they're celebrating like they've just scored a goal in the world cup final not bad for five boys from Dorchester And it's like It's a music award And it's like kind of arbitrary And it's quite a commercial thing And it's not even like the proper music awards It's the made up music awards that ABC made

Because they lost their contract to have the Grammys But anyway, they're really excited about winning it I might come back to that later. How are you doing there? Still on 200 bucks for the girls. They're doing well. I hope they're going to enjoy that stationery because they've just cost him his only chance ever to talk about the American Music Awards 1990.

Next is the thing that happens in the award ceremony that I think probably dates more than any other moment. And that's saying something. And that's the moment someone throws to and introduces Kenny Loggins. They say, and now here's Kenny Loggins. Please welcome two outstanding performers, Kenny Loggins and Melissa Manchester. Kenny Loggins is like a person who you don't think is real. He's just like a joke name that you use to date things. Like flared trousers.

But anyway, turns out Kenny Loggins is real because they throw to him and he presents an award. We then have a performance by Richard Marks. presents an award. We then have a performance by Richard Marks. Now, I really enjoy this because this is like- This is some serious hair action going on during this video. Richard Marks' long hair is a sight to behold, but it pales in comparison with the other members of his band. Like, it's almost like they're having-

It's almost like they've had, like, a bet amongst themselves as to who can have the craziest longest early late 80s early 90s hair the richard marks thing i'll link to it i'll link to the video so you can watch it people this is this is one of the highlights the richard marks we then have appetite for destruction by guns and roses wins the best heavy metal and it's funny like maybe that did seem like really heavy metal at the time Appetite for Destruction by Guns N' Roses wins Best Heavy Metal. And it's funny, like, maybe that did seem like really heavy metal at the time, but I feel like as time has gone by, it seems less like heavy metal and more just like normal rock music. But at the time, that was obviously real bad boy, like heavy metal music. And I have to say, Slash, when he's up on the stage receiving the award,

surely wins the award for absolute most wasted person in the auditorium he's not he's not in good shape but he's he's here but he has a good time up there on the stage god we didn't even expect this it's like really you know to come down hang out at the show and stuff so we thought we'd come down and hang out and be two hours with hangout and shit have a drink on us thank you very much we have a performance from tone loke who and he like appears with like a magic trick at the start and he appears inside like a bottle of alcoholic drink like a big whiskey bottle or something and you think like and he's singing wild thing and you think he's gonna be he's like he's a bit he's a bit of a bad boy as well except he then starts doing this like really rehearsed synchronized jaunty

bouncy dance with all his backing dancers and he loses all his bad boy credibility in about five seconds flat. It's a real sight to behold. Those hums of agreement, that's almost commentary, Tim. I'm tempted to dock. You've done it three times now. I'm docking five bucks. That's $195. $195 in the station refund now. All right.

Then we have Lyle Lovett co-presenting an award. Is there any human being who seems more out of place in the music industry or at a music industry awards ceremony than Lyle Lovett, who shot to fame because of a relationship he had with Julia Roberts. Lyle Lovett is the most peculiar, awkward-looking human being. And he really looks like he doesn't want to be... He looks like he doesn't want to be a music star, and yet someone has forced him to do it.

Or it's a joke it's like that bbc guy who turned up for like a job interview or or something at the bbc that time when they thought he was like a guest and they put him on tv and suddenly he was being interviewed on the bbc news channel and he was like i don't know what i'm doing here lyle love it permanently looks like that now next we have something that i'm deeply confused about and that is the award of achievement is given to prince now they show a documentary about prince and his life and that and i'm imagining this is one of tim's favorite things in the show because i know he loves little documentaries and recaps of people's lives and i imagine when we watch this little 10 minute mini documentary about prince tim was absolutely loving it prince prince then gets up gives a speech oh hang on i'll clear my throat

the american music award of achievement goes to prince ladies and gentlemen prince still not allowed to talk to him. He's having a drink. All these things you're never going to get to say. All right. Prince then does his acceptance speech. I'm surprised by how uncharismatic he was. He gives a terrible speech. But, oi, five bucks.

That's down to 190. Sounds of agreement are your tacit approval and agreement, and therefore you are commenting. So, but I was curious about this award of achievement so i decided to look up who else has won the american music awards award of achievement seems like a big deal now michael jackson was given it in 1989 the year before prince got it in 1990 you You know, deserving recipients, it seems to me. This is like, this seems to be their biggest award.

It's presented to the artists who have accomplished impressive success in their careers. Now, next we have Mariah Carey, 10 years later, in 2000. Now, I wouldn't have put her in the Michael Jackson and Prince category, but all right. The next winner, eight years later, is Mariah Carey again. They gave it to her again. This time she wins the honorary award of achievement because she's already won the proper award of achievement. They gave her an honorary award of achievement, I think because she'd had the most weeks at number one or something.

So, so far, the awards of achievement in all of American music have gone to Michael Jackson, Prince, Mariah Carey twice, and then they don't give it again for another three years. And in 2011, they give it to Katy Perry. So, what a great quiz question that would be. Who are the people in this list famous for? Michael Jackson, Prince, Mariah Carey, Mariah Carey again, and Katy Perry. Six years later, they then maybe gave it to Diana Ross,

but this was a different category of award of achievement. But we'll come back to this in a minute. We'll come back to this in a minute, because something else comes up later on that confuses matters uh what have we got after prince randy travis does a performance the thing i liked about that is he's totally wearing the colonel's kfc tie like he's actually wearing that exact black tie that the colonel wears which is fantastic we then have another award to Milli Vanilli. And even if Milli Vanilli weren't lip syncing, right,

even if Milli Vanilli were the real deal and were the performers of these songs, and I quite liked Milli Vanilli in the 90s, you know, I liked a couple of their songs. I want to point out for this next award, they beat, they beat on merit. And this was not popular vote. This was voted by music people. For this award, they beat the Travelling Wilburys, which consists of Tom Petty, Bob Dylan, George Harrison, and Roy Orbison.

So that's quite the win. Well done, Nelly Vannelly. To knock those guys off is quite an accomplishment that's quite an upset um we then also have miss you much we also have miss you much by janet jackson won an award i think it was best dance song oh that's an agreement five 185 we then have janet jackson best dance song and the winner is and that beat like a prayer by madonna which i think if you ask which one of those two songs has stood the test of time i'm'm going to go Like a Prayer. But anyway, Miss You Much was designated a better dance song than Like a Prayer.

I know which one I've danced to more times. We have a performance by Gloria Estefan, and she was one of the ones who's chosen to do a medley of songs, not just one song. And I always wonder how they choose who does a medley and who just performs one song and i always wonder how they choose who does a medley and who just performs one song i say pick a song i'm not a fan of the medley it's you know this isn't the super bowl pick a song do your song don't do like a tv ad and give us like a 15 second snippet of

each of the songs in your latest album Don't approve of that Now here's where I want to come back to these awards Because at this point Neil Diamond wins The award of merit This is a lifetime achievement award The American Music Award of Merit

Is presented to Neil Diamond January 22nd, 1990. This is another Lifetime Achievement Award. And by the way, Prince, who just won the Achievement Award, goes on to win the Merit Award in 1995 from the same award ceremony. So this is getting seriously confusing now. We've got the achievement award and the merit award, which both seem to be awarded for lifetime achievement. I don't know what the difference

between the two is, other than another excuse to get a famous person to come to your award ceremony. But the merit award has been awarded many more times. So, let's have a look at some of these. These are quite interesting. This has got an interesting history, this award, because since... You all right there? You okay? You all right? Since the 1970s, this was given every year. I'll read you some winners. It started off, you know, Bing Crosby, Irving Berlin, Johnny Cash, Perry Como, Chuck Berry, Stevie Wonder, Kenny Rogers, Michael Jackson in 1984.

Michael Jackson has won a lot of American Music Awards in all sorts of categories that I didn't know existed. Paul McCartney, Elvis Presley in 1987. The Beach Boys, Willie Nelson, Neil Diamond, who's winning it now. Prince goes on to win it in 95. Frank Sinatra in 98. Billy Joel. Gloria Estefan. Janet Jackson.

Garth Brooks in 2002. Bon Jovi, 2004. Then they didn't give it for three years. Annie Lennox in 2008. Then they didn't give it for another eight years, Sting in 2016, and then they haven't given it since. So I don't understand what's going on with this Merritt Award. Not very rigid in their award categories, the American Music Awards. Although the giving of the award of merit to Neil Diamond did have my favourite moment of the night,

and that's when Stevie Wonder pretends to read his speech from a piece of paper that he's holding in front of him. Very funny, Stevie Wonder. In 1982, winning the Merit Award. We have another medley from New Kids on the Block. I get up in the morning and I see your face, girl. We have another medley from New Kids on the Block. Look, anyway, I can't spend all day talking about these music awards. Thanks for hearing what I've had to say.

If you want to find out more about them, there is a video on YouTube. I'll link to it. You can watch it. Let us know what you think about it in the Reddit. Thank you to whoever it was that stole the stole it and recorded it goodness knows who would record something back then and keep it this long but anyway it happens also a little example of how the torturing tim podcast will work nice one 185 dollars of stationery for tim's daughters. That is impressive. That is sacrifice. That total, by the way, can still be whittled down.

Okay, you're allowed to talk again, Tim, but you're not allowed to talk about the American Music Awards from 1990. Okay, let me clarify a few things. No, no, no, no, no. You're not allowed to talk about the Music Awards. What about the circumstances around them? No, no, no, no, no. You're not allowed to talk about the music awards. What about the circumstances around them? No. No.

I feel I may have been misrepresented somewhat. You can do what you want. Just know it will cost. It will cost coloured pencils. Well, you see, this is the... Okay, so you seem to enjoy torture in a particular way. Thanks. There are actually... There are numerous examples of history of how you've done this

And you're so frustrating because your memory is so long You've got a longer memory than me Not when it comes to things that annoy me And your persistence is gone Maybe it's because you were an older brother And so you learnt this super power in being annoying It's just training. I'm just well trained. I remember when we were on this trip, right? Maybe we went

on the road trip up to the Gold Coast to Surfers Paradise and we were staying overnight in Sydney and we were crashing on the floor of a mate's house and you got in, for some reason you got into your head that you were going to tap my shoulder, like just tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap my shoulder and not stop. And it was, it's one of those, you know, cut it out, cut it out. While you were trying to sleep?

That's right, that's right. I'm just laying there and tap, cut it out, cut it out. And I'd whack you, cut it out. And you just keep going and going and going. And, you know, a person would find it funny for five minutes or for 10 or for 15. You just tapped me for like, it was hours. And I'm laying, and I remember they're trying to change the subject to distract your thinking and so forth. And for a while, like, you know, we'd be talking about something

and you go, hey, Tim, and I'd say, what? Like I'd totally forgotten. You go, I haven't forgotten about this. Tap, tap, tap, tap. You'd start tapping again. It's just like. I'm like, this is the secret of my success. I'm persistent. I'm determined. I'm like, this is the secret of my success. I'm persistent.

I'm determined. I'm dogged. I'm stubborn. It's unbelievable. I don't know what you're talking about, though, said Brady, as he played this piece of music again. I will grant you that. I will grant you that. I will grant you that.

But I can't see what this American Music Awards idea has to do with it. Oh, well, look. Careful what you say. It's almost like I want to just work out the dollar amount of a few different things just to clarify them and then just be willing to pay. Each time you make a point, it 10 bucks it's not yeah it's it's yeah yeah it's it's i'm trying to find a way to say it. Okay. Okay. Well, one thing I could do is just let loose and then just sort of, you know,

not let the kids know that there's a new episode out. Or you just pay 200 bucks for a bunch of stationery. Well, I'll tell you what. If you'd started, this is what was going to be frustrating. I was listening and thinking, if you start getting things wrong, I mean, you, you, you, you know, you got a few things wrong with me and my motive. But if you, the circumstances, but if you started getting facts wrong, then I was going to think, well. When I was, when I was telling my wife about this, she did say, you're going to deliberately

get things wrong. And I said, I haven't decided yet, but I decided not to do, well... When I was telling my wife about this, she did say, you're going to deliberately get things wrong. And I said, I haven't decided yet, but I decided not to do that. No, yes. That would be... Not even I'm that cruel. So, ideas for a podcast. What have you got? What have you got what do you got tim well i was gonna oh my idea you can't even speak of it have i have i gazumped you too much do i need to do another podcast idea uh no no no i've got. Well, this might be an idea. I've got a little idea that might be something. Okay.

So, all right. I'm just, I'm a little bit thrown and I feel suddenly highly regulated in what I say. You've just been through quite an ordeal. Oh, well, it is. It's very difficult. It's very difficult. It's very difficult. Without talking about the thing you're not allowed to talk about, what was it like not being allowed to talk about something

that you wanted to talk about? Well, it's very frustrating because... Don't you sneak? If you sneak any information through, I'm still going to dock the money. I won't sneak information. I was just going to say so my uh my podcast idea arrived from the same event yeah and so that is frustrating in and of itself yes i will say i will say in tim's defense people tim because when i found out tim had watched this award ceremony he had a podcast idea that was related to it as well.

So I have kind of gazumped him a little bit here by taking away one of the ideas he wanted to talk about. So when I say, Tim, what's your idea for a podcast now? One of the ideas on his list that he quite fancied has been stolen from him. And then I made some notes on, actually. I've got like half a page of notes of research here which well i've got three pages of notes about those awards so i win

i think you weren't supposed to uh look i do look i haven't there's an idea in this that it's you know I've been listening to a podcast that you recommended recently about films from the 80s and 90s. It's just some people talking and reflecting on films, but they're quite entertaining and I'm really quite enjoying it. But I was thinking about the love. One curious episode that you and I had one night where we went. It's so hilarious in retrospect. We'd been to see the film Dumb and Dumber and we loved it. Very funny film.

I don't remember seeing it with you. I know I saw most films with you around that era, so I'm not surprised I saw it with you, but I don't remember that particular night, I don't think. Well, we did. We saw it and, well, you may not remember this then because we enjoyed it so much. It was fantastic.

And we're laughing very hard. It's literally one of the times when I've been on the floor. Like I literally fell off my seat at one point and I was laughing so hard and it was hurting. And then I could hear, while I was on the floor getting up, I could hear you laughing at something else. And I knew I missed something funny. So that's how funny I found it.

And I think it still holds up but anyway a week later or a few days later anyway later that week we were eating maccas and about to go see a film and we were going to see the shawshank redemption which was in the cinema had just come out and everyone was raving about um and it's you know now regarded as you know i think it's tops those sorts of lists of people's all-time favorite films oh yeah um great film just a really really great film that's held up in fact its greatness has probably increased with time it just you know works so perfectly as a movie and yeah in for all sorts of ways but we decided we were taught while we were eating maccas we were talking about dumb and dumber how we'd seen it a week before and how funny it was and spur of the moment we decided let's not go see the

shawshank redemption let's go and see dumb and dumber again and so and so we we so we did which which again was was entertaining although obviously not quite as, seeing a comedy film for the second time in a week is not quite as entertaining as perhaps seeing the Shawshank Redemption for the first time with its, you know, storyline and all the rest of it. So I was thinking about that and I was thinking in retrospect, was that a wise decision? Like it was a call. So I was thinking it's such an unusual thing to do.

So there's several podcast ideas that sort of come out of this little moment. And one is sort of looking back on a little, you know, fork in the road like that. Like that was an unusual call. And in retrospect, was that a wise decision? But there's also another idea, which is actually the first one I thought of. wise decision but there's also another idea which is actually the first one i thought of and that is what's worth seeing a second what films are worth seeing a second time instead of the shawshank redemption for the first time while we're on this topic before we explore this and i'm quite looking forward to exploring it what was for people will probably be aware of this

i've talked about it before but my dad was a movie critic in adelaide when tim and i were around this age and because he was like the guy who reviewed movies the week before a film would come out my dad would often get to go and this was before you know you could show people films any other way other than in the cinema so the week before most films came out dad would be allowed to go into the cinema to see these films like uh you know as a special screening preview screening and also around this time because because there was a different world then it was a more like the world was more siloed and more parochial whenever a new film came out like an international hollywood film every city in the world would have like its own premiere and all the all the great and the good of that city,

all like the quote mark celebrities of that city would all go to the movie premiere of that film, of, you know, the Shawshank Redemption in Adelaide. There would be the Adelaide premiere. That's true. And so, anyway, so I got distracted then because a bird was cooing out my window. And because my dad had the job he had, he was quite important in the film world in Adelaide, the Adelaide film world.

He would always go to these premieres and would have a few tickets. So he and he would usually take me and there would often be other tickets and I would take Tim. So around this time, Tim and I were going to films all the time, often with my dad and whatnot. And there was one story but I've forgotten the details of what the films are but you will remember where we were going to see the premiere of a film with my dad and we're a bit lukewarm about it and when we got to the cinema they were premiering another film at the same time that we didn't know was premiering that we were quite excited about and my dad said oh do you want to go and see that instead then and we walked in and watched that

film instead and it was a really awesome film what were the two films do you remember we turned up to see one we turned it was around the time of was it around the time of toys or jurassic park or it can't have been jurassic park because i was so excited about Jurassic Park after those trailers. There was nothing else. But remember the film Toys with Robin Williams had a really good teaser trailer that made it look like it was going to be an awesome film. And then when we finally saw the film, it was a bit rubbish. Yeah, yeah. And it stole the title for Toy Story, I thought, as well.

So, like, Toy Story would have been much better if it was just called Toys. Like, it's a lovely, crisper name. But, yeah, that pretty average Robin Williams film had already been called that. Yeah. I don't remember what that was. I can't believe you don't remember. You normally remember that stuff really well.

Those were golden days, though. It was amazing. I thought it was heaven. To the idea that my friend's dad's dad you know got free tickets to the movie i don't know why a free bit i mean movies were like you know it was like four bucks a ticket but for some reason getting in free was just like heaven but i guess it was we're also the first it was early as well and that was exciting being the premiere and knowing what was coming up ahead it was pretty cool i was well trained in that because i started watching entertainment tonight which was on at 11 30 in the morning and entertainment tonight used to

talk about all the american films and how they were going and of course they all premiered back then in america like months before they'd come out here yeah so you're just i remember looking forward to hook like you know the the peter pan film with dustin hoffman Dustin Hoffman and Robin Williams and talking to friends of them going, what's Hook? And I'm going, no, this is going to be really, really great. That'll be interesting. What films do you remember being most hyped about seeing before they came out? Like you mentioned Hook. Jurassic Park was so well promoted that I was in a frenzy about seeing that.

Titanic, I remember being quite excited to see because it was well promoted that i was in a frenzy about seeing that titanic i remember being quite excited to see because it was well promoted and uh and and the news the first star wars prequel i was pretty excited about and obviously you know ended up being disappointed but i was pretty hyped about that too oh well i was looking forward to that but i to be honest i think i was much more excited about in the years just prior to the ph Menace coming out, they started showing the original trilogy at the cinema. And because I'd never seen them at the cinema, that was exciting. Just to see Star Wars on the big screen was amazing. That was really, that was really.

So I remember people dressed up for all that sort of stuff. This is in like 96, 97, somewhere around there. Jurassic Park was built up enormously it sounds funny to say but i was extremely excited about seeing schindler's list which was the same year yeah because it was talked about as being the greatest film ever made really it was talked at the time the real masterpiece and i was very excited and i went and saw it on my own yeah at the goodwood theater like at eight o'clock at night and the whole cinema was empty and it was perfect because it felt like it's a very retro sort of um 1920s kind of cinema you had a much better experience than me i went and saw it with a friend of ours

as you know and after 10 minutes she turned to me and said, is this whole film going to be black and white? Oh, yeah, that's right. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, yeah. It was pretty exciting to see Jackie Brown after Pulp Fiction because we saw Pulp Fiction three times at the cinema and so the next Tarantino coming out was very exciting. I haven't looked forward to a film for a long time like that. What films did you see a lot of times in the cinema then?

You mentioned you saw Pulp Fiction three times in the cinema. What other ones did you see multiple times in the cinema? That's a good question. So, Dumb and Dumber twice. Yeah. Pulp Fiction three times. Yeah. I think I saw Heat twice. Heat is a good movie that's a very good for in fact i

could see it third time it's the cinemas here in adelaide are starting up again post-covid and they're showing sort of classic-y movies to get back because obviously no one's released movies so i could go back and see it again which would be enjoyable that's a strong film yeah i saw the matrix at the cinema and then i saw it again when they brought out the sequels. Like at midnight, they showed all three. Oh, yeah. And that's a night I'll never get back, I tell you. Like, I actually left.

So, you know, like, you know, when you've had too much of fairy floss and you never want to look at it ever again. The first Matrix movie, though, I remember seeing that at the cinema. And, again, it was one I went to, I think, probably with Dad and didn't really know what it was going to be and being blown away, like thinking, oh, my God, I've never seen a film like that. There are probably four or five films, and it's even better when you're not hyped about it and you don't know it's coming.

And I remember after The Matrix just thinking, I can't believe that. I can't believe what I just saw. That was incredible. That was impressive. We saw that actually together at the Academy Cinema. We were really close to the front, weren't we? Yeah, that's right.

That's exactly right. Yeah. Yeah, we were standing at the front, yeah, talking afterwards. Yeah, that was very clever. Seven was another film we saw in that same exact theatre. Yeah, upstairs at the Academy. Yeah, that was very clever. Seven was another film we saw in that same exact theatre. Yeah, upstairs at the Academy. Yeah. I remember we saw that in the upstairs cinema at the Academy

because I remember walking down the stairs and a girl behind me saying to her boyfriend, so what was in the box? Oh, no. I've watched that in years since and I was really disturbed by it as like a mature adult. Whereas back then it was just like a really interesting, cool thriller, you know, like it's actually a really disturbing thing. Yeah. Because what, because now you've got a wife and kids and stuff like that.

So, you think of like. Oh. Yeah. That's right. Back then it's like, oh, Brad Pitt's like a cool cop and Morgan Freeman is the wise, you know, guy. But, yeah, later on it's like, oh, this is ghastly. Absolutely ghastly. Yeah.

Yeah. You know how The Matrix, speaking of The Matrix, before Keanu Reeves made The Matrix or was in The Matrix, he was in this other sort of sci-fi kind of movie called Johnny Mnemonic, which I never saw. But the reason I never saw it was it looked like, you know, like a space hi-fi steam pump kind of thing as well with hackers and all that sort of stuff. That was also big in the 90s. But I never saw it because I was once in a long line at Hungry Jack's around the corner from the cinema just for some other reason. And the two guys behind me spent the whole time we're in this long, slow line moving, talking about all the things they could have done with their night if they hadn't gone to see Johnny Mnemonic. They just said we could have watched paint dry. Oh, yeah.

We could have, you know, they just, yes, in a very hilarious way talked about how terrible that film was. But then. So you haven't answered my original question, which was the podcast idea of what film is worth seeing a second time instead of The Shawshank Redemption for the first time. I mean, I don't completely understand the premise of the question. Will I get to watch The Shawshank Redemption later?

Oh, that's a good point. Well, the point of it is a film that's so good that repeated viewings of it is even better than the Shawshank Redemption. And it's not even that it's not implying that the Shawshank Redemption. I'm not sure any film meets that criteria because the Shawshank Redemption could easily be in my top 10 to 20 films. And the Shawshank Redemption is a film that I, probably one of the best films for watching multiple times. Like it's a film that is very rewatchable. Like there are films that I really, really like, but I wouldn't watch them many times.

But The Shawshank Redemption, I'm comfortable watching again and again. I've probably watched it 10, 20 times and I would easily watch it again, like right now. So I'm not sure there is any film that meets the criteria you've set. Even my absolute favourite films, which are like Field of Dreams, Raiders of the Lost Ark, even those films, I don't think fulfil that criteria. Gosh, there you go. I said the first time because, of course, seeing the Shawshank, I won't spoil it,

even though I guess everyone's sort of probably, everyone on Earth is probably seeing the shawshank i won't spoil it even though i guess everyone sort of probably everyone earth is probably seeing the shawshank redemption but some people may not have in fact i know someone recently who hadn't have but the first time you know there's is a unique experience but it does work over and over and over again well it's just got so much to it because there's so many stories like it's like so many little chapters isn't it you know it's like you know it's got so many little plots and subplots in it that are just nice little films on their own do you remember when we wrote our top 10 lists yeah yeah yeah we we sat down and decided we were going to put our definitive top 10 all-time movies and we had to sign the lists to confirm

that they were our top 10s we did you typed them out on that little Apple 2E or whatever it was that your dad had. Printed them out, signed them, authenticated top 10s. And then the next year we did it again. That was going to be an annual thing. And they're still at home and they're filed away at home. Of course they are. Anything that ever falls into your hands gets filed away and never ever gets destroyed. Well, you signed them, man. I filed them away. What about you? Same question, you know, seeing twice.

I mean, obviously, obviously, Dumb and Dumber. We have to say Dumb and Dumber because we did it. We did it. We did it. And I'd do it again. I probably wouldn't do it again. I'd probably say, well, look, we're probably going to see this film on video. Dumb and Dumber. Let's go see this incredible other film that people are talking about at the cinema. Because the funny thing is we didn't ever see the Shawshank Redemption at the cinema. We watched it. I remember I watched it at your place on video with your sister and her friend, like, you know, a year later.

And I remember that day because the film had started and then one of the people said, so what's this film about? And you went, you just had that horrified look on your face. Like, it's actually already on. Like, what do you mean? What's it about? It's not about, it's there already on. Like, what do you mean? What's it about? It's not about. It's there.

There it is. Like, watch it. It's happening now. It was your way of saying, oh, it's a bit late to ask a question. Could you be quiet, please, while we now watch the film? It was your way. You were pointing at... Who was that for my personal interest?

Should we do an idea from a Patreon supporter? We should definitely. Let's hope it's a good one. Gosh. Dear Brady and Tim, I'm writing about the American Music Awards in 1990. I'm writing about the American Music Awards in 1990. I'm afraid not. We have a

message from... I can't believe that you have let that go. I can't believe that you are never going to get to talk about those awards now and you're letting it go for the sake of $180 of stationery. I'm looking at notes in front of me. I'm looking at notes in front of me i'm looking at notes in front of me of a

brilliant idea with and and i and and you're depriving our listeners i know what your idea is though and that idea could be applied to other pieces of cultural material but why would you when we've got the greatest because i've taken it away from you uh All right. Anyway, let's get on with this patron idea. Yes, let's. This comes from Andrew. Hi, Brady and Tim. My name is Andrew. I'm a postdoc at the University of Minnesota.

I'm a member of LIGO. LIGO is a big, huge science experiment in America for detecting gravitational waves, for Tim's information. Oh, right. It's more of a Brady point of interest than a Tim one. It's not an 80s R&B band. He wasn't... He wasn't nominated for an award in...

No, at that thing. Any recent music awards. Just for fun, I'm attaching a picture of me visiting LIGO in Livingston, Louisiana. Your podcast has given me some good laughs during the past few months, which were extremely exciting, but also somewhat stressful. I typically listen to podcasts while walking often around the beautiful lakes in Minneapolis. Here is my extremely nerdy idea for a podcast. I call it Fermi.

Brady should have heard about Fermi estimates in physics. I'm not sure about Tim. What an insult to Tim that is, Andrew. Of course Tim has heard of Fermi estimates. But let me continue. I just can't go into it because it'll cost me money. Otherwise I would have explained it at length.

Fermi estimates won Best Country Music song at the 1990 American Music Awards. A Fermi estimate is when you ask a quantitative question and the challenge is to come up with a reasonable order of magnitude estimate with just the information you have in your head. The concept was made famous by the physicist Enrico Fermi. you have in your head. The concept was made famous by the physicist Enrico Fermi. The premise of the podcast is to have two plus hosts do Fermi estimates and then record them. Doing multiplication on air is probably not the greatest podcast material, but I think there are a few things that could spice it up, make it spontaneous. The hosts shouldn't know what the day's questions are going to be until the day of the show and not look

things up on the internet. I also think there are two modes that the podcast can switch between. First, there's a mode for questions that have a right answer. For example, how many piano tuners are there in New York City? In this, one of the hosts can compete to come up with the best estimate. They'd work out loud, sharing information, hopefully disagreeing about some of their approximations, which can be a source of fun debate. And at the end, their final number can be compared to the real number and the winner is whoever got closer. The second mode would be fantasy questions with no known right answer, like how much would it cost to build the death star or how much would advertising cost

at the tommy ball final the fun here would be that the hosts would come up with wildly different approaches and numbers and they could argue and try to convince each other of whose idea makes the most sense the spirit of this is not so much in what the final number is being all the little idiosyncrasies that are bound to pop up as the hosts use different methods and assumptions to come up with the right answer what random but surprisingly helpful facts do hosts have stowed away anyway that is probably way too much detail i had fun thinking about it if nothing else i hope all is well with you both best andrew oh i love this idea this is a great idea it's's great. Phew, thank goodness. At least someone had a good idea. Good idea. It wasn't torturous.

Yeah. I like this idea. I was thinking, as you were speaking, I was thinking about, you know, I've got a pen in front of me and I've got a whole bunch of them in here. I was thinking about if you could, you know pens sort of come and go from your life like you don't you might have one special pen and then you might have a like a fountain pen or a usual pen or but pens also just come and go and you don't keep track of them terribly and so it'd be fascinating to try and calculate just even like not just how many pens there are in the world, which you'd go to manufacturing, but how many pens you touched in a year and then how many pens are touched by people and how many different people touch one pen. How many pens you've owned in your life?

Oh, yeah. In your ownership, you know, how many, you know, including pencils and texters and things like that. That'd be a hard thing to estimate. How many pens have you owned? I don't know how many pens your daughters have owned, but it's about to go up by 185 bucks worth in the next week or so. That's right. You would start off with calculations around, you know,

sort of your stash that you had at home as a kid, because, you know, you've just got a regular kind of stash at home. Yeah. And then you've got the stationary pack that you get each year at the start of the school year, and you kind of have that for the year and that sort of finds its way home and some of it gets lost and all the rest of it. What about those four colour and ten colour pens?

Do they count as one pen? Oh, that's difficult. Yes, I think they're one pen. They advertise themselves as one pen. That's their niche. I loved the four colour pen. I still love the four colourcolour pen and use them. But the 10-colour pen seemed like a great idea but was not as good to use.

It used to break. Yeah, they were flimsy. But taking the covering off and looking at the mechanism inside was always really cool because it was like a machine gun, sort of rotating machine gun or something, machine cannon. I'll tell you, has there been a feature of any device in history more ignored than the green colour on the four-colour pen? Yes, the yellow colour on the ten-colour pen. Didn't even get clicked.

Just totally. It was just illegible. Like it was pointless. Gee, the blue and the red got a good workout. The blue always ran out first. And then the red, red closed second, you know. And the black then may be desperate when you click the others and you need to use it. So the black was your sort of backup.

The green on the four colour pen is the black jelly bean of jelly beans. That's right. It's a total spare wheel. Yeah. I tell you a story I didn't tell in the previous episode when we were talking about I didn't know that was an option. You know how I told you about how I used to order my sweeties one by one and then later on in life I found out you could do either pre-prepared bags or just tell her give me a dollar's worth. The reason I didn't do pre-prepared bags was because they contained these sweeties called black cats which were basically

cat-shaped pieces of licorice. Oh, yeah. I remember black cats. I hated them. So I couldn't get the pre-prepared bags because that was a waste of money. So once I learned about this new option of ordering sweeties, I would just go up to the lady and say, can I please have 50 cents worth of mixed lollies and no black cats? And no black cats became like the little thing I had to put on the end of every order. There's other kids in line going, oh, you don't have to have the black cats.

I didn't realise that was an option. I would enjoy that Fermi estimates. I can't stop thinking about how much the Death Star would cost to build. That's such a good question. Yes. I tell you, it's expensive enough just knowing how to build the Lego Death Star. That's even more expensive. That's got a price tag.

That's actually for sale. Imagine how much the printer ink would cost on the Death Star. That's right. They don't seem to have admin people and stuff, do they? Like just accountants and stuff hanging around the Death Star. Everyone's in uniform and got a weapon. Well, yeah, maybe they just didn't. Maybe that just didn't feature in the films because they didn't, you know, they didn't have much reason to go there.

Well, they don't have anyone on reception. Like, it'd be much more realistic if they arrived and then go through and they go, hi, everyone. How was your flight? Like, maybe four weeks later after the second Death Star blew up, there was just paperwork and bits of paper raining down on Endor. Maybe that's right. That's right. Oh, the admin from the construction process. It'd be interesting to know the inflation between the first one and the second one.

It's like maybe it wasn't complete because it was like we ran out of money. This is how much we had the budget for one Death Star. And then we've got the same amount of money, you know, a few years later later and but we've run out of we've used it up and we've still got like and maybe it was this wasn't finished because of industrial action i mean i know the film uh clerks likes to talk about that doesn't it about the uh all the workers who were on the death star but yeah yeah it is often talked about the death star it's a good idea because it's not even a star it's it's an unusual. You would call it a battle station or something.

It just works the name, doesn't it? It's a great name. You're right. It's a great name despite its lack of starness. That's right. But an awful lot of death occurs there. It does. Mainly because it blows up.

Yeah. It fulfills its destiny by actually being destroyed. Well, I'm sure it killed more people than were killed on it after it blew up Alderaan. Oh, that's true. That's right. That's right. What else? What else would you like to estimate?

I mean, I always like the question about how many people have died in history compared to how many people are alive and things like that. Because there was that myth, wasn't there, that more people are alive now than have ever died, which I think is not true. I don't think it's true. I remember reading in a- It was debunked. I'm basing my very confident knowledge on this based on a general knowledge book that I read when I was a kid, which had the curious little fact in it, had so many interesting facts in it.

And one of them was there is one- there are 40 people dead for every person alive at the moment which was in the 1980s it's difficult to prove but i'd like to know who my 40 are your 40 are yeah most of the things i would like probably do relate to like me like how many words have i said in my life how many steps have i taken how many podcast episodes have i made yes indeed yes that's the interesting thing with with the podcast and with youtube as well as you get views and and download counts whereas an author sends out their book i guess they get sales but they don't get reads of their novel that goes out into the world it's the same with podcasts you get the number of downloads but you don't know how many of those people who downloaded

it have listened and of those who've listened, how much of it they've listened to. Like what, like 0.001% of people have actually made it to the end of this particular episode. Even listening now. Is there even one person? Are you going to leave that in? How are you going to weave your way into leaving that in? Probably not.

Probably not.