The Unmade Podcast - 87: Partake in a Riot (with Derek Muller from Veritasium)

Episode Date: June 18, 2021

Special guest Derek Muller (from Veritasium) joins Tim and Brady to discuss all sorts of stuff, including; Traralgon, the Big Rocking Horse, Canada, (ice) hockey, hypochondria, last words, and a $10,000 bet. Go to Storyblocks for stock video, pictures and audio at storyblocks.com/unmade - https://www.storyblocks.com/unmade Support us on Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/unmadeFM Join the discussion of this episode on our subreddit - https://redd.it/o316oj USEFUL LINKS Derek's YouTube channel - Veritasium - https://www.youtube.com/user/1veritasium Derek on Twitter - https://twitter.com/veritasium Adelaide and murder - https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-12-15/why-cant-adelaide-bury-murderous-capital-reputation/9249142 Traralgon - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traralgon Redback Spiders - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redback_spider Our Big Rocking Horse Adventure - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edqzoa408MU FoxTrax - the glowing puck - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FoxTrax Glowing puck footage - https://youtu.be/grOttsHuuzE The 2011 Stanley Cup - sorry Derek - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Stanley_Cup_Finals The 2011 Stanley Cup Riot - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Vancouver_Stanley_Cup_riot Hypochondria - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypochondriasis It Might Be a Tumour - scene from Kindergarten Cop - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_FRWUPcR7Y Wikipedia article on dying words - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_last_words Ned Kelly - bushranger - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ned_Kelly Franklin Roosevelt - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_D._Roosevelt Last Tweets - from a recent Unmade Podcast - https://www.unmade.fm/episodes/episode82 Derek's big wager - https://twitter.com/veritasium/status/1403130178197278720?s=20

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10. That's harrowing from my end. We are in for a challenging evening. I feel like I fell into a perfect sequence between you two instead of on Brady. So. between you two instead of on Brady. We have a very special guest for today's episode. It's my good friend Derek Muller from the YouTube channel Veritasium, the incredible YouTube channel Veritasium that has like 100 billion subscribers

and 200 gajillion video views. And normally at this point, this is a chance for me to introduce another of my YouTube friends to Tim. But in this case, Tim has met Derek. I actually set you guys up on a bit of a blind date, so to speak. Derek, do you want to explain how this all went down? Yeah, well, I think the family was in Australia traveling around and we happened to come upon Adelaide and you were good enough to hook us up with Tim because I didn't know anyone

in Adelaide. And he showed us a great time. So, it was a wonderful blind date. Totally would date again. Wow. You had the true Brady Adelaide experience too, because my experience of living in Adelaide is pretty much being driven around by Tim for many years as my chauffeur. So that's what you had as well. And Tim, was Derek a good guest? Yes. Was he suitably impressed by our magnificent city? I was able to use the same car booster seat for his kids that I did for you So that was wonderful And they ate almost as much Maccas as Eugene as well I'm sure he didn't I forgot, you would have had to use like a baby seat and stuff

Wouldn't you in the car? Did you have one handy or how did you handle that? No, I think I sourced them from somewhere I can't remember where I was honestly going to say I don't know how we did it I don't think we traveled with them. Look, this is already turning into a total dad conversation. I think they came with a renter car, but the renter car near your place was closed and I went to a different renter car.

It was an ordeal. Yeah. But I got to say, we had such a good time that my wife was seriously contemplating a move to Adelaide. She thought, you know, Adelaide's a good city. Though I must say, Tim didn't do the most amazing job of selling it. He told us some unsavory things about Adelaide. Oh, no. The underbelly, if you will.

They were mainly Brady stories, really, I think. From back in the 90s. Tim said, Adelaide's a strange place where there are lots of serial killers or something like that. Like it's the serial killer capital of Australia. Adelaide doesn't have a high murder rate. It's a very safe city,

but it does have some bizarre murders. Like we don't do many murders, but when we do them, we do them weird. There are some very famous and unsavory murder cases from adelaide selman rushty came here in the 80s for a book tour and he wrote an article that went into one of his books as well about adelaide being the perfect place to set one of those you know murder mystery crime kind of sitcoms, which seem to be set in, I don't think there's any English villages left

where there hasn't been one set really, but Adelaide is that place in Australia, I guess. It has that sort of feel to it where it's all polite on the surface, but you wonder what's going on, you know, behind Mrs. Jones's roses or something. Yeah. I feel like this is a side of Adelaide that Brady doesn't often speak of,

but Tim was more than happy to pull back the curtain for us. Oh, Derek, I will happily tell you Adelaide murder stories. Having worked for the newspaper in Adelaide, I have the inside track on a few of them as well. But we haven't yet sold out and gone true murder podcast, but we're saving that for when we get desperate and need to go to that safe ground of podcast land of the true murder podcast.

Yeah, well. For a long time, I've liked the idea of inviting Derek onto the Unmade podcast, but I feel like the time has become necessary because it's like there's been a critical mass of reasons to have you on, Derek. And there are three main things I want to talk to you about or ask you about before we get some ideas for a podcast from you like we do on the show. The first one is, and I think this is

amazing, but maybe you don't because you're hyper-rational and you'll just, you'll tell me that, you know, probability means whatever. But people who listen to the Unmade podcast will know Tim was born in quite an obscure Victorian town called Traralgon. Hang on. He talks about it all the time. Who's obscure? But anyway, it's not, it's not like a, it's not a famous place. In fact, on a recent episode, I said to Tim, who is the most famous person from Traralgon? recent episode, I said to Tim, who is the most famous person from Traralgon? And he actually really struggled and he didn't come up with a Nobel Prize winner that was born in Traralgon.

But, you know, he struggled to come up with a famous person born in Traralgon. And here it is, people. Derek Muller was born in Traralgon, Victoria, Australia. I can't believe this town. I would never have heard of it in my life. And two of my good friends were born there. How is this possible? It must be something in the water. You think this is a town where nothing's going on, but look at us.

Nobel Prize winners, me and Tim. I mean, that's a special place. I didn't actually know this about you until you met with Tim. And afterwards, Tim said to me, you know, Derek was born in Turalgon. Like, all excited. And I was like, no, I had no idea. I mean, I was going to say, how were you born in Turalgon? I understand how you would have been born. But like, how did it come to be that you were born in Turalgon?

Well, my dad was a civil engineer and tarragon was starting up a pulp and paper mill in the early 1980s so he took a job you know my my family was south african and then they moved to canada so both my sisters were born in canada uh but my dad happened to take this job in inuralgon and I popped out there. And so, yeah, it was just a fortunate accident, I guess, or, you know, I feel lucky. Were you two born in the same hospital? What hospitals were you born in, do you know? I was born in a hospital that I know was torn down. Yes.

So, Tim, if your hospital was also torn down i think chances are good it's the same one yes they wanted to make sure there were no more of us that was the taralgon central hospital my father had many heart attacks in that hospital that's i got a lot of memories there oh man so my mom tells this story where she says that i was delivered by a veterinarian who who also must have been an ob or something wow but apparently i don't know if there were no other doctors around that day or you know he was just in from the farm but apparently that's what happens in Turalgon. Yeah.

In fact, the whole hospital wasn't torn down. Just the dog and cat area was... And how long were you in Turalgon for, Derek? So I believe the answer is about 18 months. Wow. Yeah. What's interesting, I understand that I had kind of a near-death experience in Turalyon. That we had a shed out the back where my family would just sort of let us, you know, we could run around in the backyard or whatever, play in the shed. And there were these burlap sacks. And my mom says

that they found a whole bunch of redbacks. These, you know, very venomous spiders crawling around in those burlap sacks where we were playing. So you know it tarragon almost could have been my end it could it could have been a short life that sounds like a very uh non-australian description of a near-death experience in australia though when i say i saw a redback spider i'm lucky to be alive like redbacks don't kill you by looking at you that's true that's true i mean've asked my mom, like, did you really let us play in the burlap sacks? And she said, well, not after we found the redbacks. So, I don't know. It just seemed like it's a bit close for comfort.

I mean, I was 18 months old. The chances, you know, I wouldn't have survived. I don't know what a burlap sack is. It's like a weave. It's sort of a rough material. we used to have three-legged races where like hessian hessian sort of material maybe that's what you would call it yeah okay you don't have a lot of faith derek you say you you probably wouldn't have survived it doesn't sound like you have a lot of faith in our vet because he's good he would have saved him he was a very good veterinarian and uh he would have

done one to save my dad's fluff many times i believe they do now have a doctor in their new hospital so that's good derek have you ever been back to tragan i have i actually did a bit of a pilgrimage of sorts back in 2012 or so i drove down the coast by myself and then i i went inland to taralgon and i actually went up to the house where my dad told me where i needed to go it was on swallow grove i don't know if i can if i remember the number but i feel like it was 96 or something but i could be wrong and uh and i knocked on the door and i said hey you know i spent the first 18 months of my life here. Do you mind if I, you know, come in, look around?

And I had a big camera with me too, which was weird. But they let me go into their place and actually film a bit in the backyard. Things like that. So, yeah. Did you go and play in the sacks for old times sake? I didn't. I didn't. I think they'd torn down the shed and they'd put up some, like, large Buddhas or something. So it's changed a lot, you know?

And what did you think of Turagin seeing it? Like, were you impressed going back and seeing it for the first time through adult eyes? Yeah, you know, I don't know there was much to see, to be honest. I do love Turagin, but I didn't really tour the city. I had friends there and I saw the old house and that was it. Did you go to the Luoyang Power Station, which is the only site that Tim ever talks about when he talks about Turagin? I have not been to that power station, no. That's the landmark. No wonder you sound so underwhelmed by your pilgrimage. I must say, apart from Luoyang,

the other place you refer to which where your father worked which was the um the paper mill um you don't need to find because you can smell it from the entire region it it's like nothing else um yeah and it's not what's in the water i think down there it's what's in the air but my dad, down there. It's what's in the air. My dad always used to say that's the smell of money. You should have gone and knocked on the door of the local vet and gone, I'm back. All right. That's number one reason. That's the first thing i wanted to ask you about

derek the second thing i wanted to ask you about was when you visited adelaide and tim took you on the tour and told you all these murder stories which i didn't ask him to tell you the one thing i did ask him to do was take you to the big rocking horse at gamaraka. And we have very recently done an episode at the big rocking horse in Gumaraka. And we were singing its praises and carrying on. And I mean, we gave it a big rap, the big rocking horse. And I thought if anyone is going to be rational and tell it like it is

and not get carried away with the hype, it's Derek. And I think in fairness to our civilians, our listeners, we should ask you to give us an impartial review of Adelaide's big rocking horse. I've got to say, it is a big rocking horse. Like, it holds up. I got to say. It strikes you as one of those unusual things that you're not expecting to see, you know? Like, I don't know, you're walking through the desert you know like uh i don't know you're walking

through the desert and you find a huge fountain or something it's it's got that sort of strange why is this here and why a rocking horse you know all the you have extraordinary questions and then what's amazing is getting to climb inside it and it feels uh a little bit claustrophobic but at the same time wondrous right it's a magical experience to be able to climb up in a rocking horse and i was carrying a baby who was probably i don't know less than a year old at that time so that was a a challenging task to navigate all the railings and such with uh with with a baby and a toddler. It was impressive. Yeah, it was nuts. And then, as if the giant rocking horse is not enough,

you have the whole animals petting zoo thing that's right there next to it. I've got to say a highlight for me was the cafe, where I feel like they made some very good food there. It was, you know, hearty, that sort of, you know, comfort food, I think. So, I give a big two thumbs up to the big rocking horse. You made it, eh? And you certainly need the comfort after going up that high in that particular structure. I could tell. Look, Derek was a little bit teary at one point and I had to steady him and encourage

him and help him down. In fact, well, he was carrying his bit teary at one point and I had to steady him and encourage him and help him down. In fact, he was carrying his baby and I was carrying Derek. That's what it was like. For those people wondering, if you haven't figured it out from the previous episode, the reason they did build a rocking horse is because it's actually part of a toy factory. So they decided to build an iconic toy and the rocking horse is because it's actually part of a toy factory. So, they decided to build an iconic toy and the rocking horse was the choice. But you're right, when you're up in the sort of the beautiful Adelaide Hills, seeing this huge glaring white and red structure,

it's sort of not very in keeping with the scenery. But yeah, it feels very homemade. That's what I like about it. It feels like just a guy made it, which is exactly what happened. Yeah. And I feel like it's very Australian in that if you're thinking about marketing strategies, in a lot of countries, they have not caught on to the idea of, let's just build like a big thing, you know, whatever it is we do here, let's build a big one of them at the front and that's going to bring everyone in. In Australia, that's, well, that's the standard marketing 101, it feels like.

Yeah. Everyone who goes to uni, yeah, big stuff. In fact, at 96 Swan Grove in Traralgon, they've now built the Big Derek. Yeah, it's incredible. Where redback spiders come from all across the country to climb inside. Where redback spiders come from all across the country to climb inside. That's a terrifying thought. Yeah.

All right. Now, the third and final thing I wanted to quickly ask you about, Derek, is we've mentioned that you were born in Australia and you now live in America. I don't know what you identify as, but to me, I've always thought of you as Canadian. Like to me, Derek is my Canadian friend, despite being a very international person. So rightly or wrongly, I want to ask you a Canadian question. And that is, why does the Unmade podcast have so many Canadian listeners? Whenever we get sent messages or competitions or we have prize winners and that, it seems strange how well represented Canadians are. And I have not been able to shed any light on this.

And I thought maybe you would being a man of deep thought. Wow. I mean, Canadians are fans of sort of high tier culture you know you wouldn't expect just your average american to get into a podcast like this you need someone who appreciates some sort of real deep complex intricate thought patterns which i think is what you guys bring to this podcast so yeah i could i could totally see that. Yeah. I love that while you said that, I was quietly belching off microphone. Just to underscore the point. I like your explanation better. The best I've been able to come up with is kind of just a bias where there aren't necessarily more Canadians.

But Canadians, to me, have always seemed like people who wear their nationality on their sleeve more than a lot of others. And I thought maybe just like we just see a lot of people identifying as Canadians when they write us letters and things like that. They're like, I'm from Canada. I always found when I was traveling, you know, in my younger days around the world, it was always Canadians that would have a big Canada flag stitched to their backpack and on the back of their jacket. And they're always very, I don't know if it's because they're very

proud of Canada or it's just a way of saying I'm not American. But I've always found... It's probably a bit of both. When i when i went back to australia when i moved back when i was 21 i put a big canadian flag on the back of my backpack so yeah it's a thing we do i don't know why yeah i've got to say yeah i do identify as canadian i mean i feel like i that's where i grew up, you know, till I was 21 or whatever. So that's most of my formative years for sure. We're people that likes the flag. And I guess people that likes to get involved with things. Like you're saying when you have competitions and things, right?

Like, yeah, like join us. Yeah, why not? We've got good spirit. We can get involved and get behind things. I'm trying to think, you don't have any other theories for why this podcast has resonated so well with Canadians? Is it like they have a whole bunch of dreams of doing things, but that they don't quite get around to doing? So, they feel like this podcast gives them that outlet to think,

I could do that. You know, I've got an idea for something and then, you know, just talk about it and move on. That could be it. That could be it too. All right. If anyone listening has a theory as to why lots of Canadians listen, send us an email. Do you see a lot of reviews in iTunes from Canadians? Is it disproportionate there?

I've not looked. I've not looked at that. It's a very half-baked observation for me, as you'd expect. I haven't driven down into the data. There is a wonderful connection with comedy, though. It's well known that, you know, Australian comedians and the comedy in Canada, you know, they've got the big Melbourne Comedy Festival and they've got that.

So Montreal, is that right? Big comedy festival. There's a connection there. Maybe more than in American comedy. There's something about the Canadian satire, a little bit of irony that, you know, connects a little bit more with Australian humour. That's been noted before. Yeah.

And I could see both countries having sort of a sibling sort of personality, I guess. We're not the biggest, you know, dogs on the block or whatever, but, you know, we're still cool countries. Sort of that colonial Commonwealth thing as well. I'm down with the maple syrup, that's for sure. That stuff is gold. I mean, literally, it's gold, but it's beautiful. Any excuse for maple syrup.

I don't have maple syrup in the house. Do you have maple syrup in your house, Derek? We do. Yeah, we get it from Costco and it comes from Canada. Absolutely. Yeah. The kids are big into it. So there you go. You know, we literally- I have to say this. We literally are going to the Pancake Kitchen for dinner soon as this recording is

over. That's the plan. That was announced to me. And immediately my mind went, all right, I'm having maple syrup tonight. That was not planned. That is a coincidence. Does the Pancake Kitchen still have those same maple syrup jugs they had for 100 years?

They were those silver tops and you push the, you put your thumb down on the thing and it pulls the... Yeah. And you know what? They haven't wiped or cleaned those things since our year 12 breakfast in 1993. So, you can still get some out, but it's pretty, you have to sort of jam a hole in the lid and get it out. It's, but nevertheless...

Did you take Derek to the Pancake Kitchen when he was in Adelaide? No, I don't think we did. I don't think we got the chance. No, but he took us to a French restaurant. Yeah. Do you remember that, Tim? Adelaide's known for our... No, I don't remember that.

Where did we go? I believe I had a crepe. Oh, yeah, the little crepe. So you did go pancakes. We actually... Yeah, well, I saw it. Yeah, very flat. It was a little French crepe place. That's right. We went and had dessert there or something, didn't we... Yeah, well, I saw it. Yeah, very flat. It was a little French place, crepe place.

That's right. We went and had dessert there or something, didn't we? Yeah, that was nice. So, Tim, while Derek's just gone away to make a cup of coffee, because it's the middle of the night where he is in LA, let's do our ad for Storyblocks. So, as everyone knows by now, right, Storyblocks is this online library of video.

I've also got audio and pictures. Video is the big deal though, that you pay a monthly fee for, and you can use royalty free in all your creations, your videos, your podcasts, your newsletters, whatever you're making. It's great to have access to this huge library. I use it every week, getting little bits of audio and video for my own videos on YouTube. So we highly recommend them. Every week is pretty often, isn't it? You literally couldn't do without it. Storyblocks have actually got something new going on at the moment that they wanted us to mention.

And I think it's really cool. It's called Restock. doing is they've they've got a whole bunch of their filmmakers and they've employed a bunch of filmmakers to make a whole bunch of new stock footage to deal with people who are underrepresented in the stock footage they've created it in response to lots of comments and emails and other contact they've been getting saying there should be more diversity in online stock libraries good stuff a big problem is a lot of the stock footage being made around the world at the moment is produced mainly in sort of apparently white Eastern European countries. And Storyblocks has said, well, we're doing something about it.

They're rebuilding the stock pipeline, as they put it. If you go to their website, if you go to storyblocks.com slash unmade, make sure you use slash unmade so Storyblocks know you came from here. Storyblocks.com slash unmade. And sure you use slash unmade so Storyblocks know you came from here. Storyblocks.com slash unmade. And you can also click through and read about what's happening with this restock project. They've committed to having 20% of their footage containing people

who are black, indigenous, and people of colour by 2022. So the clock's ticking on this project to really change the look of stock footage. So good on them for that. Good stuff. More realistic of the way the world is. More representative. More representative. I wonder if they're plans to have more Canadians as a result as well.

I tell you what, today's episode definitely is not representative of people who are not from Taralgon. There's only one of us. It's really good. If you go to the Storyblock site, they actually have profiles of all these filmmakers who they've commissioned to make all this new footage. It's really interesting getting to know the people who are behind making stock footage. It's really fascinating. I've always wondered who these people are,

so it's great that you can go and find out about them. It is amazing to think that stock footage is deliberate footage. Yeah. Just because it's used incidentally, it's not offcuts. It's made, deliberately curated and made, just like a film or a television show or any other piece of content. Oh, yeah, and the funny thing is, you know, when I'm using it, there is a kind of weird irony that I'm the filmmaker using the stock footage

that's been made by filmmakers who are way better than me at making films. Yes. You're not supposed to agree with that, man. Oh, sorry, no. Sorry. Sorry. Anyway, I think I can hear Derek returning from his coffee making, so let's get back to the show.

Now, Derek, the main thing we do on the Unmade Podcast is sort of spitball ideas for podcasts that we probably will never make. And I don't want to throw you straight in the deep end. So to kind of warm you up, I'll give you just a half-baked mini idea that I've had for quite a while now. And it's an idea I've always thought that would be a podcast I would make with you if I was to make it. And it's also quite relevant, you being Canadian. So let me tell you about this idea. We'll see what we think of it, and then we'll get a couple of ideas from you. My idea, and I haven't actually given a name yet, actually.

So let me just, on the spot, I'll'll call it ice hockey with derek because i love sport right i love almost all sport i watch so much sport and even if it's some obscure sport like if i switch on the tv and i find lawn bowls i can easily sit and watch hours of lawn bowls and get really into it but one sport i've never really been able to bond with and enjoy and watch is a sport I know you love ice hockey you know I've been with you in bars and stuff and the ice hockey scores will come up on the on the screens and you'll be absolutely transfixed like this is I know how important this is to you and I feel bad because it's the one sport that I've never really been able to get into. So, I thought, wouldn't it be an interesting podcast for you to convert me, for you to immerse me and teach me what I'm missing about ice hockey?

And you're the person I thought could do it. Would this be a good podcast, having a non-believer like myself come on and could you convert me? Well, I think I could. I think I would want to use some particular methods. I'd want to take you to a game. You've never been to a... I have.

I've been to a... I haven't been to an NHL game. I've been to an ice hockey game in the UK. But at the top league, which I know is mainly washed up NHL players, but it was a pretty high standard. And I actually did quite enjoy it, to be honest. But I did enjoy going to the game, but I haven't been to an NHL game. I feel like that would be the difference, you know, even a top tier sort of European league, I feel like you need to be in the arena, you know, in some big hockey city like Toronto or Montreal

or Vancouver will do, but, you know, like Montreal, that's do but you know like Montreal that's where you know it gets real um but just I find those stadiums electric like I've been to lots of other sports you know uh soccer football or whatever baseball and uh you know football is pretty good but um but there's something about hockey because there are small arenas and there's just so much energy. I would be into it. I would totally take you on with converting you to hockey. And I think your Canadian fans would love that, right? You know? So, the reason that you enjoy it so much on TV is because you can map it back onto the experience of being in the arena, you think? That's part of it? That's part of it. I think another part of it is just that it's such a fast-paced aggressive and very skillful game um the you know the plays that you see you can just really appreciate and the game just goes so fast

uh that i get a lot of excitement out of it i i it's it's really hard for me to put into words but it's just i think one of the most beautiful games to watch um and also just the pacing it's really hard for me to put into words, but it's just, I think, one of the most beautiful games to watch. And also just the pacing. It's just so good. Like, soccer's too slow. Basketball's too much inevitable. Like, they're going to score, and then they go the other end to score. And, you know, it's just like, you know,

it's hard for me to get invested in any one play. But hockey's got the right level. Scoring in ice hockey, hockey to me seems so arbitrary though because the goaltender covers so much of the goal that they seem like like it seems to me that no matter how good you are to score you've got to give me a bit lucky as well like you can you can be one-on-one with the goaltender and still they're gonna stop that because like all they've got to do is just like stand there and it seems so hard to score in ice hockey we say it's hard to score but the games are higher scoring than like football or or soccer right so even with all that padding and and their huge size

and the small net like it's still and i i think what you see from the players is incredible ingenuity because they have to create something right because like if the goalie's just standing there and you take a shot like it's you know pretty easy to save it so so that's sort of the remarkable thing is all the the ingenuity and gamesmanship that that happens to get them out of place or something like that yeah tim where do you stand on ice hockey yeah i, I don't get it. Oh, man. You know what's funny is you guys calling it ice hockey, right? We just call it hockey.

Yeah, yeah. And yours is field hockey. Yeah, field hockey is field hockey and ice hockey is hockey. Yeah. I get the feeling the game didn't originate on the ice and then they were able to, you know, successfully export it to the grass. I'm not sure that's generally how things how things work can i say one of the things help me here then because i'm equally intrigued by this because one of the things that got me to finally click and understand american football nfl is that i stopped

thinking about it as football i stopped thinking australian rules football i stopped thinking soccer and because they're it's not really that sort of game i suddenly realized it's a whole other about it as football i stopped thinking australian rules football i stopped thinking soccer and because they're it's not really that sort of game i suddenly realized it's a whole other thing a strategy game and that's when it came alive for me so is the problem in our brady and my emotional and mental block with hockey is it is it that we're thinking about it as hockey is it is it the way thinking about it as hockey is it is it something else is there another game that it's closer to that's our way in yeah it's tough for me to say because honestly when i watched afl australian rules football i find it not that dissimilar from that game at least in terms of pace and style right There's a lot of people moving very energetically and fast

and crashing into each other and coming up with some spectacular plays. So to me, I quite liked AFL because I thought that that kind of mirrored some of the things that I used to get from hockey. So I guess that'd be my closest point of reference, but... It's 360 and it never stops and yeah. Yeah.

I'll tell you what I think my problem with ice hockey is. Because, like, I get the game. I got into it for a while. I played it on, like, Nintendo for a while. Like, I played a few seasons. So, you know, I know the rules and I've played it as a video game that I really did like. I think my problem with it, and I know this is, like, a bit of a cliche thing to say and Derek's going to roll his eyes like any hockey fan would and that is it's hard to watch on tv oh no i can't follow

where the puck is he is rolling his eyes at me it's hard to follow and i guess i guess a lot of that is because i haven't watched enough of it i don't understand the rhythm and the cadence and the movement of the players which which feeds into your ability to follow where the puck is and what's going on in the game. But I can watch a little session of it. And a lot of the time I'm really struggling to figure out where the puck is, what's going on. Like... Yeah. You know what happened in the 1990s?

I don't know if you know this story, but it's a true story. You know about it. That the Fox TV channel started putting a little fuzzy blue dot like around the puck so when you're at home tracker yeah you could actually see i guess they had like a little gps thing in the puck or whatever and uh and then they also have like a line behind it like a streak so it looked like a comet or a meteor or something when when someone passed it there would be a little blue uh streak it. And then when you shot it, the thing would turn red. So you could watch the puck.

So obviously, I mean, your concern has been a common one. And one particularly that the Americans decided was worth solving with this technology solution. But the Canadians all thought, what a bunch of idiots. They can't follow the puck in a game of hockey. Yeah. Yeah. Do all also introduce controllers so you could control the players because that was great fun wasn't it brady when we used to do that and that is that the one where they have they that guy would say um face off was that that is that a face off is that ice hockey that sounds like a a video game is that a video game it may have been there was like nhl 95 yeah ea sport in ea sports one's the one i got into and i played as the detroit red wings and i

um and in the game i had you could change the names of your players and i changed the player up forward to brady harron and i just always let him score the goals even then no matter what happened it was always passed to Brady Haran and let him score the goal so at the end of the season when they had that the league table of the top goal scorer in the league Brady Haran was topped by about like 200 goals so so you're not competitive then are you Brady no I don't know I'm not sure they're officially recognized Brady but anyway it's it's a nice i don't think they have i don't think they're officially recognized records can i i have one more question for derrick on this though this is there's an interesting podcast which we can get back to the essence of in a

minute but derrick one question do you face paint do you paint your face that's no no no okay i'm not much of a joiner to be honest i don't get too fired up about most things so yeah painting your face would be going that'd be going a long way i think that like english football takes it way too far and the fact that there's you know people dying in the stands sometimes when you know some club hates some other club that much i mean that's for me it's not it's not that level of a fandom having said that when the Canucks went to the final in 2012 I flew back from Australia to Canada to be there for the final um and it went to game seven and I was in Vancouver for that game uh which to our everlasting shame we lost and uh yeah what a night I'm sorry yeah

I'm sorry we got up we got up three to one in that series, if I can just say, against Boston and lost at 4-3. Brutal. Absolutely brutal. Nah, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Do you play? I play poorly.

Not as well as any Canadian should, but better than most Australians. So, you know, I'll take that. Yeah. I've got a stick in the house now and i've been i've been knocking the ball around with the kids so yeah we're starting starting to get it going you play ice hockey you're on the unmade podcast you are a canadian i think that's right i can understand how you identify yeah checks out you even you even you even put the flag on your backpack anyway enough enough of this this has been going way too long on my idea what what was the flag on your backpack anyway enough enough of this this has gone way too long on my idea

what what was the hang on what was the idea to talk about ice hockey that we'd have a podcast where i would convert him to an ice hockey lover derrick explains yeah honestly do you actually care what the idea is tim it's just a night just an excuse to talk about ice hockey that's one episode that's not no no because it would be a different there would be a different and you'd have guests on and other people who need converting you could really it would be like it would be basically it's the ice hockey podcast for people who don't understand ice hockey okay my concern like a idiot's guide sort of yeah i just don't know that like a podcast is the right medium for converting people to ice hockey. I feel like it's a thing that is very experiential.

I think the thing I'm most excited about is if you wanted to come to a game with me, I would be delighted. So let's make that happen. Well, I'm not going to travel across the world to go to an ice hockey game with you because I know that always ends up as a bad experience after your playoff, your finals experience, your Stanley Cup experience. I don't want to travel all that way and then see your team lose did you cry when you lost game seven honestly did you cry uh i did not cry i did not uh but vancouver has a habit of rioting um win or lose really it's a rioting kind of town so there was a riot that yeah yeah i didn't get in i wasn't after your football, I was going to mention that.

I thought I'd be polite. Look, I didn't partake of the riot, but there was a riot that was had that night. Partake of the riot. I didn't partake of the riot. That could be the name of the podcast. I just love two people with baseball bats going, shall we partake? Let's, let's.

And then running in swings. No, no, you go first. No, you smash the windscreen. No, no, no, I insist. It'd be a very, very Canadian way to write. Oh, that's cold. All right, Derek, let's hear your first idea for a podcast. Okay, my first podcast idea, and I think I'm going to need you guys to workshop a title with me.

But the core concept of the podcast is, well, it's kind of around hypochondria. So the idea that whatever symptoms you're feeling are actually a symptom of some deep, horrible disease. So every podcast could be a different disease. And the symptoms would be kind of a little bit strange, but also not severe. Like I've got an itchy back of the left knee or something. But then it turns out to be like this horrible condition. I don't know why I came up with this podcast idea. Is it kind of like a diagnosis, but then you always go the worst case scenario?

It's basically that. It's, yeah, it's basically like, you know, you talk through the symptoms so people can listen and think like, oh, yeah yeah my shin has been hurting recently and then at the end you turn out you know you got a tumor or something like it's that's that's what i was going to suggest it should be called it should be called it might be a tumor like from kindergarten cup it's not a tumor yeah it's not a tumor it's not a tumor at all yeah okay so so that's that's what i've brought to you. So what does an episode look like?

Would like, okay, today our guest is Tim Hine. Tim, what have you got? And Tim will say, oh, I've had a weird tingling in my ear. And then the two experts will talk through all the things that could be. Yes. With the finale that this is the worst thing it could possibly be. This sounds like a way better podcast idea than i was pitching you no but i like this i like yeah this is the most irresponsible podcast in history another

name for this podcast is dr google let's say yeah i was thinking you know it's the kind of thing that would get a lot of people listening because you'd want to know yes yeah oh i've had that symptom yeah what could it be? In a sense, you could think of it as like a public service podcast that you're getting medical information out there into the wider public. You could have earlier diagnoses of things where they say, oh, yeah, my aunt was, yeah, she had a sore foot or, you know, whatever it is. And you're right.

This is a really good idea. You're right. It does serve a public service in a strange way, although it will put the fear of God into many people. It also does serve and it will make people get things checked. It also, I think, would be successful because another thing people like, even if they haven't got the symptoms, people just love hearing about other people's misfortune.

So hearing about, like, terrible diseases and things that can go wrong that you haven't got people do take like a strange and macabre pleasure in that like i think this i think this hypochondriac podcast is uh really good yeah tim are you a hypochondriac um i think i am i've never thought about it before, but I think I am. I kind of think you are a bit because like, like, because I do often get texts from you saying, I guess this is also part of being like a dad, a family, you have a new level of responsibility, but I do often get messages and texts from you saying, you know, one of the family's sick, we're all going and getting tested. And like, oh like, it's semi-regular that I'll get a message from you that there's like a health

scare and there's concern and someone's going to the doctor. Whereas like, I think I've been to the doctor, the number of times I've been to the doctor in my life, you could count on one hand. Like, I'm just anything wrong with me, I'm just like, it'll go away. And then eventually it does. I know that's bad, by the way. I know that's not how you should live your life. Wow.

It sounds like if there's anyone who needs the hypochondriac podcast, it's you, Brady. Yeah. You need this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It could save your life one day. I've gone to the doctor five times and then you're listening to our podcast and you're like, oh, yeah, my left eye has been twitching. And that could be it. For three years, yeah.

Yeah. twitching and that and that could be for three years yeah my my yeah so i've just got just got a vision of you with your arm half hanging off brady like the knight in monty python it'll get better and it always does it always gets better in the end i think my hypochondria is less about oh is there something wrong with me and more more a case of, have I got something that could cause damage to someone else? Now, maybe that's COVID-19, but because you have children and they go to school and, you know, you just catch everything and come home. My wife works in aged care, so there's also that sense of she's in trouble if she feels anything and goes to work, you know. And because I'm wearing people too, so there's always that sense of she's in trouble if she feels anything and goes to work you know and because

i'm wearing people too so there's always that sense of oh i better i better get checked out it's like you'll be fine it's like it's not about me i'm you know if i get sick that's cool it's a few days with books and netflix on a warm couch you know what i mean but it's that sense of i think i'm hypochondriac over cautious about the impact on other people, which has just made my hypochondria just sound like I should be given, you know, a Nobel Peace Prize for virtuous living. I'm not a hypochondriac. I'm a hero. I'm a humanitarian. It's a little bit like Mother Teresa, really.

I'm a humanitarian. It's a little bit like Mother Teresa, really. I've always wondered if your, like, greater sensitivity to this area may have been because you have, like, such a nurturing mother and you're an only child. I thought maybe, you know, you were so nurtured as a child, maybe, that you carry that through into adulthood and you're just conscious if something's sick, I need to be made like you know whereas you know when you're from the streets like me i was wondering that too last night when my mum was feeding me and

what are you derek what are you how are you like uh are you more the brady brady you know tough it out or the or the tim let's let's get this checked. That's cool. Yeah. I mean, I just feel like everyone has a bit of hypochondria in them. And I'm no exception. I feel like, you know, when I went to the Head & Shoulders head office because we were doing a sponsor video. But it's like as they start to talk about this. Hashtag ad.

Yeah. Well, I mean, it was a hashtag ad. Sorry about that. But like they start to talk about this fungus that's living in your hair and stuff and it's just you just notice everyone just starting to itch a little bit and and it's just like that subconscious thing that they're just putting those ideas in your head i don't know why did you bring that up that's not helpful old fungus head. Well, it's caused by fungus.

So, anyway. Tim Hine has left the call and gone to his doctor to be checked for hair fungus. Just shaving my head as I sit. I have to admit, like, obviously when, you know, the COVID thing first became a really big deal. Like, every single niggle in your body you became absolutely convinced was coronavirus you know you would have like a you would stub your toe and be convinced you just caught coronavirus and we've become a little bit desensitized to it now i think but yeah i think we've all got a we've all got a bit of that so i projected onto the dog as well

like our dog's a little bit lame brooklyn's got like a sore leg at the moment but he's also acting a bit strange where he just stares off into space for long periods of time and i just find myself projecting all sorts of human issues onto maybe he's worried about this you know maybe he's sounds like hair fungus to me has he got dandruff? Maybe he needs counselling, you know. Derek, that is a very good first idea. I'm very impressed. But you do have to have two ideas. I don't know why. That's just some arbitrary requirement. So, what's your second podcast idea? Let's see if it's as good as the first okay so the second podcast idea is famous last words so every episode takes on a famous person and the last things that they said this is this is nice this is so my wheelhouse because people who know me know that i spend a lot of time on the

internet reading about how famous people die like i know that i spend a lot of time on the internet reading about how famous people die like i will spend i'll spend hours going through wikipedia just calling up a famous person's page and just scrolling straight down to death cause of death and very often it will be it will deal with their last words so i think this is like you this is that's just people in Adelaide. Derek's last words were, mummy, mummy, what's this funny spider? It could have been. Could have been.

I wonder with some of these famous last words, if these are all real or whether like how much they're made up and how much are actually real. Yeah, apocryphal ones. I'm looking at a site here that says Richard Feynman, famous physicist, that his last words were, this dying is boring. There you go. He was ready for it.

There was another guy who was a scientist, Michelson, who measured speed of light in a famous experiment and he was writing in his log that he was measuring the velocity of light made at the irvine ranch near santa ana california during the period of september 1929 too and then it's blank so i don't know if he was actually writing as he died but that's what it seems like yeah i don't know to me it just feels like there's all these really uh interesting circumstances around death and the things that people are thinking in those last moments that are sort of yeah very insightful into thinking

about life as a whole i think or and other times they're just like you know funny they can be sometimes be funny or yeah you know or like there's that famous guy who said, you know, I promise you this water is safe to drink. And he drank it and he died from it. Einstein's last words famously were in German to a nurse who didn't speak German. So, no one knows what Einstein's last words were. Oh. Yeah. So, Tim, what do you, do you know any good famous last words?

What are the... It is finished. It is finished. They're pretty good, aren't they? Yeah. They're pretty good, aren't they? Yeah. They resonate. The famous ones from an Australian point of view is the Bush Ranger called Ned Kelly. And his famous words were, such is life.

This is just as he was about to be hung in the old Melbourne jail. Yeah. Do you think people know what a Bush Ranger is? Do I need to explain a Bush Ranger? An outlaw. Like a bandit. An outlaw like a bandit outlaw yeah billy the kid it's a good name bush ranger isn't it really but it is a good name technically you can't get hung for ranging around the bush but i guess if you you know stick up people and

he killed a few police but yeah such is life so a lot of people get that as a tattoo it's sort of an outlaw tattoo it's not as good as it, though. Do you ever think about your own last words? Do you ever wonder like, oh, I wonder what my last words will be? I don't personally. No. Well, I'm putting it to you now. What would you like your last words to be? Oh, geez, Brady.

I feel like I need the rest, you know, the second half of my life to figure that out. Do you ever think about your last tweet? Do you ever do a tweet and think, oh, my goodness, if I went out and died now, like in a car crash or got hit by a bus, that's the last thing I ever said that people will look at and talk about and then think, oh, I better delete that tweet because it's a bit naff. Well, I 100% think about, well, maybe that video is my last. I don't know if you ever think of that, but it's just one of those things where at some point one of these videos is going to be the last and chances are, well, I don't know if you ever think of that but it's just one of those things where at some point one of these videos is going to be the last and chances are well i i don't know will i have

planned it or will it just be something that happens i mean yeah do you think about it i mean you've got such a cadence with videos you you probably have like 50 more in the pipeline they could post posthumously i i have to admit i never have never i do sometimes think oh i wonder what my last tweet will be because when someone dies i always go to twitter and look at what their last tweet was it's just a macabre fascination i have so and i so i think oh people will probably do the same to me i wonder what my last tweet will be i've never done yet i've never done it with a video which is far more significant and important you know the videos you post then just some tweet all right here's your last tweet derek on i i've had i've been in a bit of a battle with with anyway go ahead but is this tweet or tweet or tweet and reply well it is a reply yeah yeah

yeah oh dear oh no it looks like it's the 47th reply is this one conversation i as i said i'm in a bit of a thing right now. So anyway, what does it say? Is your last tweet going to be, no, you are. It's entirely possible the way this is going. Below it, and I'm quoting now from the great Derek Muller, below is the professor's argument for why I'm wrong about going faster than the wind down wind. Bonus points for spotting the flaw in his explanation well i think you've nailed your colors to the mask there derek do you know what's happened brady

is that a physics professor from ucla essentially sent me an email and said you're wrong yeah and i said well if you think i'm wrong let's have a bet for $10,000. Yeah. So, that's where we're at. He thinks he's right. I think I'm right. And there's $10,000 on the line. Right.

Yeah. Wow. Well, you Hollywood LA YouTubers can obviously afford to have $10,000 bets. You know how we said that before that your famous last words can become mythic and they can become a little adapted and they take on a life of their own. And I can just see this one here taking on a mythical status. If, you know, God forbid, this is your last ever tweet to say that, oh, did you hear about Derek Muller?

His last words were, below is why I'm wrong. What's Brady's current last tweet? I'll tell you Tim's first. Tim's is spent the weekend listening to the various albums of Neil Finn after a long break. My goodness, She Goes On is a beautiful song. Gorgeous. That's such a typical Tim tweet.

That would be somehow appropriate. That's not bad. I would take that one. Thank you. Yeah. And obviously that would then have to be the song we played at Tim's funeral because of that. She goes on. It's actually about a lady dying.

My last tweet is bravo to the remote operator off the camera at the base of the Scotland goal net. Because, yes, there was this goal. There was this amazing goal scored at the Euros last night. There was this amazing goal scored at the Euros last night. And the goalkeeper was off his line and went running backwards to try to save the ball and couldn't. And then fell into the net, tumbled into the net and got stuck in it. And that little camera that they have based in the net at the bottom corner of the net was being controlled and had this amazing pan following the ball into the net. And then panned back onto the goalkeeper as he got tangled in the net it was a magnificent piece of uh camera control like i was so as someone who always stuffs

up camera moves i was incredibly jealous so uh and we'd have to play we'd have to play that goal at your funeral then i can i can i can write a eulogy around that. That's for sure. As someone who became famous because of his use of the camera, it was so typical that in the end his final words were affirming and praising the technical abilities of another camera person. What a man. I like that. In terms of a podcast idea, I mean, this is safe. Good idea.

Probably not like not quite as original and clever as hypochondria because like you know there are whole websites dedicated to famous last words but i still think it would be a really good listen every week you know and and you never know where the conversation's going to go because it becomes you know a bit biographical about the person who died and how they died and you know it's really just a jumping off point for some fun conversations. So, again, I'm going to have to give a big thumbs up to that as a podcast idea. Well, I'm glad. I didn't want to come on the show and throw up some duds

as a Turaginite Canadian who's been to Adelaide, you know. Who was that? Was it FDR who died in office? And he had, his last words are quite well documented. I was reading about his death just the other day. Let me look up FDR who died in office? And his last words are quite well documented. I was reading about his death just the other day. Let me look up FDR's death. Because he was having his portrait painted the day he died. Here, FDR's last words were, I have a terrific headache.

He then slumped forward in his chair unconscious and was carried to his bedroom. Can I say, Derek, I think you may have pioneered unintentionally a new uh innovative form of podcast though like we come on here and we feel the need to wrap it on for an hour with sure nuggets of gold every minute but we do feel like it needs to go for about an hour i'm wondering about this if this podcast idea literally could last three seconds like you put it on and and it's and you hear it you know die my dear darling that's the last thing i'll do and we'll see you next week and that's it and that's that's the podcast it's just the briefest shortest podcast ever made i like it or what about like it's just as a piece of art an art

installation a piece of audio that is just the reading of people's last words? Like for hours, you just collect as many as you can and then just read them and then not play them in a dark room at the Tate Modern or something. Yeah. No, that stuff's always happening in art museums. I think that you guys have great ideas. That would be odd. that would be odd and you just go and sit in the room in a soft chair and you just spend as many hours as you want bathing in the last words of your fellow humans apparently steve steve jobs last words oh wow oh wow oh wow well he was listening to some of Tim's ideas on the Unmade podcast.

There is something deeply fascinating about it. I'm looking some up, hang on. The much disputed last words of Beethoven. Friends applaud, the comedy is over. That sounds apocryphal to me. Derek, while Brady looks those up, do you remember your first words? I have no clue. I think, you know, I was a third child. And I think by that point as, I don't know, do you have three, Tim i have no clue i think you know i was a third child and i think by that point as i don't know do you have three tim two you got two yeah well anyway we

have three and by the time you get to the third it's you know who knows so i i'm pretty sure that's how my parents felt about me so yeah i don't think they've they've saved that yeah are there any photographs of you at all as a child yeah it was it was like, yeah, on the shelf it was like, oh yeah, these seven albums are your older sister and then this is the middle child, like three albums. And then like, oh yeah, I think there's a few pictures of you in the back of that one. And that was it. Derek lived in a sack in the backyard. So, you know what his childhood was like.

I am. So, I was the first child and my baby book at Baby Album where like mum has handwritten about my baby years is so thorough. It's like every day is documented, every like, it's incredible. It's like this incredible tome. And then she bought the same thing for my sister. And my sister is like just full of blank pages and gaps. And it's like just not kept.

It's like a running joke in our family that I've got like this incredible document. And my sister, nothing, nothing. I think my first two words were poo and Susie. Whoa. And Susie was some girl whose name I like saying. Susie's, I mean, that sounds like a pretty complicated one. So, you know, hats off to you, Brady. What about you, Tim?

You got your first words. Do you know what they were? I have no idea. No. I'm sure they are written. My mum was the sort of person who would not necessarily document them. She wasn't sort of as scholastic as your mum, Brady. But she took a lot of photos and remembered that stuff.

I think, like, she's still got my lot of photos and remembered that stuff i think like she's still got my teeth and hair and you know stuff like that around the place not around the place as in her lounge room but you know she wears she's got a necklace of tim's teeth nostradamus's last words tomorrow at sunrise i shall no longer be here i don't believe that i think that's apocryphal. Yeah, that's BS. Yeah. Humphrey Bogart.

Yeah. I should have switched from scotch to martinis. I just found a different Humphrey Bogart one before. See, that's how we know they're apocryphal. It was a different one there about go get help kid or something. Anyway, Derek, thank you so much for your ideas and your uh your time your Canadian expertise your hockey knowledge your your fair review of the big rocking horse hey anytime and we have now had two people born in Traralgon on the podcast huge at the same time I never thought I would say that who would

have thought I never thought I'd be on a show outnumbered by people from traalgan it's amazing the world deals you strange cards isn't it brady and derrick have you got anything going on we should tell people about obviously go and watch veritasium videos but we don't really need to tell people that though because everyone in the world already watches veritasium judging by your viewing figures but yes we will link to veritasium in the in the show notes if you want to go and check out. And we'll also link to Derek's Twitter so you can go and find out how his spat is going

with professors over his latest video. Yeah, that's the big thing in my life right now. Don't engage, man. Don't engage with that stuff. Are you kidding me? A physics professor? A physics professor says my physics is wrong. That is the perfect time to engage.

Let me let me tell you this. I did a video about the Monty Hall problem and I had a professor from Berkeley email and say that I'm wrong and you and switching doesn't improve your odds. And that's the Monty Hall problem, which is like the yeah, the most done to death problem of all. Like there's not even any doubt left anymore but aren't you doing a public service if you then take on that professor and take him down i don't because if there is a if there is a math professor at berkeley who is going around and can't solve the monty hall problem like i pledge allegiance to the truth

and when a physics professor comes at me and says your physics is wrong i have the correct physics i feel a duty uh like i i owe something to the truth i hear i hear you right i hear you that it's a physics professor but surely you like me must get a hundred comments and messages and emails a day from people telling you you're wrong when probably you're not. So if he didn't live 15 minutes from my house, you know, I don't know. It's the fact that he's right here. Yeah, yeah. And it's a fun way to shine a bit more light on the video too, which is always just nice too.

Let me tell you, the only thing I ever reply to, because obviously I get lots of messages and emails, you know, from people with who, you know, solve the Riemann hypothesis or think they've solved the Collett's conjecture the only thing i ever reply to because i think it's fun is i often get messages from people saying that the four color map theorem proof doesn't work which obviously it does because it's been proven like you know by brute force but they'll then send me a map that they've colored that requires five colours and they'll attach it to their email like saying look and here's an example and always what's happened is they've made some mistake and if they'd coloured that one blue and that one red instead they could have got away with four colours and usually what I'll do is I'll just take their map into Photoshop and just recolour it with four

colours and just email it back to them as a reply it's my favourite thing to do and you'll always get this embarrassed reply back going oh my my God, I'm so embarrassed. I can't believe I didn't see that. Oh, wow. Just coloring in maps. That is the strangest type of email to respond to. One that requires you to open Photoshop and fix up their map and figure out which color should be where.

I mean, it just sounds like you're asking for puzzles. Well, no, because it's always easy. It never requires much thought and only takes a minute or two that's not like i have to sit there and solve the problem you immediately see what what they've done and they just have become blind to it because i've done the same thing i understand the problem but i don't know i it's just i think there's something funny about replying with just a colored in map and no words i just think it's a funny flyer so there you go that's not an invitation to send me maps he's going to stop doing it from now on for two things firstly like at least some of our listeners having

now googled the monty hall problem i know what you're talking about secondly i want to say as someone who's spoken a little bit in america and has been introduced before speaking i know that the word professor is more loosely used there than it is in other contexts and being a professor of something in america means you're kind of lecturing that thing being a professor in australia is something you get after 30 years of serious scholarship and publishing is but so maybe a professor on twitter may or may not be i mean you know sure there's kind of you know student uh tutor professor youtuber but i'm just saying your your one you're having your spat with is a proper professor though like he is a proper professor yeah yeah is this going to be one of those debates though where it just comes down

to like semantics and you're both right, depending on your context? That's how these things often get resolved. What's funny is that I think he's just 100% wrong. Like, and I was worried because I'd made this bet and I went into his office to see his presentation. But he 100% thinks that what I'm claiming is impossible. And I 100% think that his theoretical analysis is just wrong so i think we're gonna have some nice uh resolution to this wouldn't it be a good uh a good podcast would be famous bets in history because they've been like i like that yeah yeah you get occasionally get

those bets don't you that get resolved years later and like i kind of like bets in general like i think if we had more disagreements where people had to put up money for their side we would get to the truth a lot faster i would love that to just be more of an accepted thing in our in our society like well we disagree okay well instead of having this stupid battle about it let's let's put some money on it and let's define what the outcome is. Imagine if that was a feature in Twitter, like when two people disagreed on Twitter and were having a fight, you had to put down like some money in escrow that Twitter holds and then like, yeah, people would be a lot more careful about what they said.

We should make a new app. That's what this is. Yeah. It's a new app. Put your money where your mouth is. Yeah. Yes. All right. get working on that

people well you both agree so there's nothing i can do here so you both agree it's a good idea so do you want to place a bet on who makes the app first out of me and derek i'll put 25 000 of it being derek take it Is there anything else you think we should do? Nah, that's a good episode We did a fair bit The only thing is I do think Because this was episode 87

And 87 is the devil's number of Australian cricket Because it's 13 runs short of 100 People are always superstitious when they're on 87 runs I felt like i had a whole idea about a podcast involving the devil things that are named after the devil oh yeah but maybe we'll have to do that in episode 88 well you could do that and say i wasn't you weren't game to do it in 87 or you're glad to get off 87 or something or something or now we've got this i could tag this on the end because then i could have done devil's elbow oh yeah that's you know i love devil's elbow it's gone man you gotta let it go well it's up there but it's like superseded can you can still drive around devil's elbow

can't you just have to come off the freeway to do it i don't know if you can drive you can certainly ride i've ridden on it because it's like a bike track you've ridden a bike around devil's elbow yep oh man you're my hero