The Unmade Podcast - 9: Raiders of the Lost Podcast

Episode Date: February 20, 2018

Audible - a free audio book with your 30-day trial - use the URL https://audible.com/unmade or text UNMADE to 500-500 in the US Topics include time wasting, unpublished podcast episodes, earliest memories, Rickrolling, and an idea from a Patreon supporter. Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/unmadeFM

Three claps from Brady, here they are. Let's have three claps from you, Tim. Well done, you got three. Thanks, man. I've been practising. I'm happy to start, and I'll tell you why, because it's a bit of a segue from our last episode, where, if you may remember at the end of the last episode,

I threw out the name of another idea in the midst of my debating and you stopped me and said, oh, no, no, no, don't burn the idea. So I'm going to go with that idea just because it might be at the forefront of people's minds. Okay. I'm sure people have thought about nothing else since our last episode. I'm imagining someone on a long trip for some reason deciding to go with multiple episodes of the Unmade podcast.

For us, it's been, you know, a month or so ago. For these people, it will be of only a few minutes. And what is it? I can't remember. No offence, man, but I can't remember what the idea was, what the name was. That's unsurprising because it's a waste of time. A waste of time. I'm fascinated. I've been thinking about how we waste time. So, like procrastination and stuff like that. That's right. That's right. Yeah. Okay. That's good. That's good. You've got work and you've got leisure. And so time wasting is sort of mixed in with leisure. I

mean, people might feel their work is a waste of time as well, but let's say at least work has, like what is wasting time? It's sort of a task or an activity without a purpose. And work obviously has a purpose. And work obviously has a purpose. Leisure often has a purpose too, you know, like you have a hobby that's quite constructive. But time wasting is kind of something else that goes on in between all those things. And it's kind of seductive in a way. I like this, Tim. I think this is nice. Just like everybody has their own doodling style. Like, you know, oh, do you draw planes when you doodle? Oh, you know, I draw circles. Oh, I do triangles. Oh, I draw dragons. In much the same way everyone has their own way of doodling, I imagine a lot of people have their own way of time wasting.

It's quite interesting to hear. Oh, that's how you choose to waste your time at work, is it? Oh, I imagine it's become a bit more homogenous since social media has come out and now everybody wastes their time by going through a Facebook timeline or a Twitter timeline. But I imagine there's still enough variety to the ways that people waste time that you could podcast out of it and hear some interesting stories. What's your time wasting way of choice? I'm hoping your boss doesn't listen to this podcast. In their last episode, I don't know if we're allowed to refer to our previous episodes so much or not, but I am. Yeah, they're canon, man. They're like part of the unmade universe. I presume people, if they're listening, they're listening in order. So they at least have some sense of it. But you were talking about, you know, watching documentaries and then playing

video games and how it feels like a waste of time and you'd rather go upstairs and do something productive. And so I was thinking I live a little bit in that tension as well. The things that I waste time with, I get an urge to feel like they should be productive. But there are times when you waste time. And there are some predictable ones. I watch a film, you know what I mean? Or I throw on an episode of whether it's Seinfeld or The West Wing or whatever. There's something like that. That's entertainment, but I guess it would fall into the category of time-wasting if it's something I've seen before and you're going back to it really just to sit

in the relaxing moment of it rather than a new film which feels like it's an accomplishment or it's a creative or an artistic endeavour. I hear what you're saying there and I get why you would say that. But I don't, when I think of time wasting, like even if it's something you've watched before, something as elaborate as putting on a TV show or a film doesn't feel like the same degree of time wasting to me. Because it's not something you do and then go, oh, how did that happen? I don't even know how that happened. Yeah, yeah.

Like it's a very deliberate act. Whereas I think of time wasting as, you know, oh, I quickly need to check something on Wikipedia for a video I'm editing. And then I see a link to something else on Wikipedia about, oh, I never knew that they were married to that person. And then I go and read the article about that person. And then I click another link from that person

to the films they've made. And then I go on YouTube and then I'm suddenly, oh, how did I get here? Like, how did I fall down this rabbit hole? Whereas if I put on a film, I've decided it's film time. And then that's a whole other debate whether you should watch a film you've seen before or not. I feel like putting on a film is not true time wasting. I mean, maybe you should be doing other stuff, but it's not like,

it's not that little bitty procrastination that I think of when I think of time wasting. There is something about time wasting which is inherent in distraction. I should be doing this or I could be doing this, but instead I'm doing that. I'm a bit like you with the same. I'll go looking up an artist or I'll think, oh, I wonder how many that album sold or who produced that album or what else have they made? And I'll go reading and reading upon reading upon reading. And the internet's obviously just nothing but foxholes to follow.

And so you do. You get caught and you go, oh, hang on a sec. reading upon reading and the internet's you know obviously just nothing but foxholes to follow yeah so that's and so you do you get caught and you go hang on a sec or while you're watching a film you go who is that actor and you'll look it up and oh that's them and what else were they in and then and then suddenly you're off yeah yeah and you say oh hang on i've missed a whole massive chunk of dialogue because i've been checking out the fact that and and i tell you what's a great episode great show for this is Seinfeld because there's so many people in Seinfeld who turn up in later shows. You and bloody Seinfeld.

It is a time-wasting show. It's just there and it's easy. It certainly wastes a lot of time on the Unmade podcast. It's a distraction from our serious conversation on wasting time. Is social media a bad time sink for you or have you got good self-control when it comes to your Facebooks and your Twitters and your Instagrams? Oh, I think I look them up. I'm not tempted by them in the sense that I don't go,

oh, I've got to go check that now. I do tend to, if I'm on, you know what I mean, it's like, oh, I've got time. Oh, I've got time to kill because I'm standing in tend to, if I'm on, you know what I mean? It's like, oh, I've got time. Oh, I've got time to kill because I'm standing in line. I'll have a look. You know what I mean? It's sort of, it is, I guess it is wasting time or it's, it's, you're spending time, but it's usually when I'm trying to fill a bit of empty time that's dead anyway. So you won't, you won't be writing and just stop for a second.

And in that stop, just like almost like muscle memory, call up your Facebook tab or something and have a look what's going on. I don't think I do that. No, I think it is in the gaps. I've got terrible muscle memory on my phone for social media. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So like you'll just be doing something else and then suddenly you're looking at your phone and you're like, why am I looking at my, like, are you looking at your phone now? Have you got it in your hand now? I have been known to check Twitter while podcasting. When it's not relevant to the discussion? Yeah, just like you'll be talking and I'll just zone out

and quickly have a look what's happening on Twitter. No offence taken, man. This entire thing is about a conversation and then you're like, I might have a conversation with people that aren't even in the room. Take electronics out of it then, right? So are the time wasting, you mentioned doodling or just... I tell you a good, I mean, a classic is when you should be working doing like the big office reorganise or like recataloguing your books.

Sometimes I have a very neat office and sometimes it gets away from me. But I sometimes have that feeling that I can't have a big solid day of working if my office isn't tidy. So, I'll spend a while tidying my office, which I can do quickly, but I may then say, oh, you know what I should do? Reorganise all my cables or completely reorganise that cupboard where my envelopes are stored. And then suddenly you're doing something that is kind of worthy, but not what you're supposed to be doing. It feels justifiable because it's tidying up or it's, yeah. I remember you telling me a story about one of our teachers, Mr. D, who, when he was young, he talked about living in a boarding school or some sort of accommodation at college, and they're all supposed to be studying for their exams. And of course, studying for exams is just a breeding ground

for time-wasting distractions. You're looking for them. Yeah. And that one of his friends actually had a time-wasting, like actually ended up getting his wardrobe and sanding it down. Like sanding down his wardrobe in his room. Then decided to build another one and cut down the trees. Yeah, that's right.

So feeling like you achieved something is the way to get past the time wasting. Yeah. But people have hobbies. You go, I'm time wasting and you're in the garden or I'm time wasting on paper. Yeah, it's a bit more strictly leisure. It is more those in-between things that probably have no purpose and no production value whatsoever. Sometimes the problem with my job as well, though, is I can create time-wasting opportunities

that are still work. Like, for example, I'll give you like a practical example. As you know, my main job is making videos on YouTube. And so I could say, okay, today I've got two or three videos I'd like to start work on. I know, I've got to get them edited. I filmed them a week ago. Today is a good day for me to edit them. But I'm not in the mood for editing. And I'm thinking, yeah. And I just start looking at my work and my projects.

And I'll look at one of my YouTube channels that has a whole bunch of videos on it already. And whenever you make a YouTube video, you make like a thumbnail, which is the picture that gets displayed with the video to kind of sum up the video and tempt people into watching it and things like that. And I could and I have, in fact, looked at some of my projects and thought, do you know, the thumbnails for those videos aren't very good. I think I should like have a new redesign and consistent brand of thumbnails for that channel. And I'll then sit there and open up Photoshop and start making new thumbnails for old videos because I want them to be good. And then suddenly I'll do a whole day making new thumbnails for old videos that I didn't even need to do. It wasn't on my to-do list. It wasn't an idea I had. It just came to me and I did it. And then the end of the day comes and I have done something and I've done something that's work and it has, you know,

and it has helped my work. I think it's that's work and it has, you know, and it has helped my work. I think it's made those channels better and could, you know, get some new traffic for old videos. But it isn't really what I was supposed to be doing. It was just like a distraction and something different. Maybe it's because I wanted to create something new and do something that was out of the ordinary in my head. So I can manage to time waste even within the world of work.

This is the thing because your job has many facets to it from the start to the end. So you're kind of led by your feelings and your instinct or your mood as to which part of it you want to do. And then you can create whole new parts of it and new projects within it. Yeah. Yeah.

You know, you'll think, oh, let's go through the back catalogue and let's rewrite the descriptions for some of those videos. Or like, oh, I haven go through the back catalogue and let's rewrite the descriptions for some of those videos. Or like, yeah. Or like, oh, I haven't updated that website for a while. Let's go through and clean up that website and check some spell. And it's like, oh, no, you need to look forward, not back. But you can find distractions.

My modus operandi, the way I work, is through lists. So I love creating lists and then ticking things off. So my workday always consists of lists. And sometimes it's a mental list, but it's even more satisfying if they're written down. And I have been known in the past on one or two occasions to have accomplished a task, realise it's not on the list, so write it on the list and then tick it off the list. Yeah, I get that. Because there's nothing nicer than the look at the ticks. Yeah, I'm a cross-out person, so I'm like a big fat line through it,

like definitely done. So your podcast, your Wasting Time podcast, this sounds like a really good one for guests. So you're getting new material into the podcast all the time. Okay, today we got Sandy Smith and she's going to tell us about how she wastes time. Yeah, yeah. There's two things associated with this.

One is, yeah, I think, and particularly maybe celebrities or reasonably well-known people and particularly productive people. I think it's one of those things. It's a part of themselves they probably don't talk about. They might talk about their hobbies, but it's like, oh, how do you waste time? And it's like, oh, this is, so that would be a surprising little dimension on things of people we already know about. You'll have Elon Musk on and it'll be like, oh, how do you waste time and it's like oh this is so that would be a surprising little dimension on things we of people we already know about you have elon musk on and it'll be like oh how do you waste time

and he goes oh well i was getting a bit bored of like my my car company so i just decided to send things into space that's right that's right well that was a waste of time let's get back to the batteries i launched a new billion dollar company in my spare time because i was sick of my other billion dollar company yeah yeah of course actually list the irony is that listening to a billion dollar company in my spare time because I was sick of my other billion dollar company. Yeah. Yeah. Of course, actually, the irony is that listening to a podcast, often people will perhaps be wasting time listening to a waste of time, which is a- Well, that was my final question. Do you think listening to podcasts is time wasting? I do it while I'm doing other tasks. So, it's like, I mean, this is the thing about creative endeavors.

Like, there's an old saying i think it's a neil finn lyric color is its own reward right so listening to music how can you measure the value of it is it productive to listen to music well it's it's it's music it's gorgeous it's the color of of life and so it's its own reward so of course it's wasteful that's the wonderful thing about it. So listening to a podcast, perhaps not our podcast, but a really good podcast. Yeah, listening to a good podcast. Is its own reward. It's productive because it's beautiful. But to be honest, I listen to podcasts, you know, when I'm driving or doing another task or working. And I don't think any many people sit

down and listen to a podcast just staring at the ground. Like it's something that happens while other things are happening. I'm going to say that browsing subreddits is the colour of life. Browsing subreddits. I'll tell you what, though. I'll tell you the way that listening to podcasts does become time-wasting, though,

and that is I can't listen to a podcast while I do most of my work. Like, you can't, I can't do anything that involves reading. I can't do anything that involves video editing and things like that. Because you're concentrating. Yeah. I can't, I can't, you know, I can't multitask in that way. I can't have words coming into my ears and at the same time have words coming into my eyes. So, when I do have a bit of a backlog of podcasts I want to listen to, I'm reluctant to just like lie down in bed and listen to them because that would seem like an indulgence and a waste of time. So I like I create things that need to be done that I can do while listening to a podcast.

Like what? I think I'll take the dogs for another walk. That won't be a waste of time because dogs will be getting or, you know, I'll go to the gym and things like that. So you start and, you know, walking the dogs and going to the gym, by the way, are good, healthy things to be doing. But I start doing things I wouldn't have otherwise done so I could have the excuse of listening to a podcast at the same time. Oh, I might go and I might go to the shopping center and pick up a new pair of jeans. But my real reason is that I'll get like a 30 minute drive each way where I can listen to a podcast. Yeah. I can relate to that. I've driven listening to a podcast and then just kept driving

or thought, where's somewhere I need to go extra? You know what I mean? Past Melbourne. Yeah, that's right. Particularly the car. I'll go for a long drive just to listen to a podcast if it's something of particular importance or I'll create tasks.

I can relate to that. Good idea. Cool. Good idea. Well, thank you, Audible, for supporting this episode. Audible, the audiobook kings of the universe who are currently encouraging you to become a better kind of you by listening to audiobooks, whether it's a more scientific you or a better teaching you, a better citizen you. What kind of areas of specialization would

you like to improve your you-ness tim oh the historical me so i like learning about history well that you're already probably pretty strong in that area maybe you should maybe you should like work out on some of your muscles that are more in need not something that's already pretty strong where are you where are you a bit more deficient? The thing with history is I always feel like if there's a gap in my knowledge, I feel embarrassed or even a little bit guilty, like, oh, I should know more about that bit of history or something. And like, it's almost like an expectation of a rounded person to know that history. But if I'm honest, I really should be listening to something to do with a healthier

diet, perhaps. Something to do with health. You're saying you should be a thinner you. Perhaps. Perhaps. A healthier me, man. I think is the right way to say it. I think audiobooks are great. And I know Tim thinks they're pretty good too. For sure. I particularly enjoy listening to audiobooks when I'm on holiday. When I'm on holiday, I want to rest my eyes. I don't want to be looking at screens. I don't want to be reading words. I just want to look at the scenery or have a walk or just lie in a sun lounger. And I love having just an audio book soaking in my ears. So Audible is offering listeners a free audio book with a 30-day trial membership. Just go to audible.com

slash unmade and you can browse the unmatched selection of audio programs. You can download a title for free. You download one for free. Wow, that's cool. And start listening. That's free, Tim. That's no cost. Get it underway.

Go for it. So go to audible.com slash unmade, or there is another option. There's another way you can get started. If you are in the United States, you can text unmade. If you don't know how to spell that, I don't know if you should be consuming books, but it's U-N-M-A-D-E. Text unmade to the number 500 500 and everything will get started from there. But now we come to our favourite part of any Audible sponsorship, and that is when we get to recommend a book. We get to be Oprah, or whoever your favourite book club person is.

And that honour falls to me today. I have decided to recommend a book that I have recommended publicly before, but it's been very in the news and very zeitgeisty in the last week or two. And it has actually caused me to start listening to it again. In fact, I was just listening to it half an hour ago while lying in bed this morning. And this is the book Foundation by Isaac Asimov. I'm not familiar with it. What is it?

Well, I mean, the Foundation series is a whole series of books. There's the Foundation trilogy, which is like the first three, which are kind of very often looked at as like together as the, you know, the trilogy. But then he wrote all these other ones. So it's actually an even longer series now. But this is a science fiction series. A lot of people consider it like the ultimate science fiction series. It has, for some people, it's like the best one.

You know, this could be debated forever. But for many people, it's the greatest science fiction series of all time. So why is it in the news at the moment? Well, the reason it is in the news is because last week, the billionaire superstar Elon Musk launched a sports car into space. You must have seen this in the news, the pictures of this red sports car in space. Among the items in the car was a small little quartz, called a quartz disc, like a little library disc.

And one of the things that has been put on the disc to remain in the solar system, looping around the sun for millions of years, is the Foundation Trilogy. Wow. They decided to include that as like because there's a few nerdy things like they had don't panic from hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy on the screen of the car and i think there was a towel in the car too which is a reference to

the hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy but they also included the foundation series that's how important they thought it was that it should be in a red sports car going through space. Is it a massive best-selling series or is it sort of a cult hit? No, it's big time. Wow. Anyone who's into science fiction knows the Foundation series. It's quite old. It's quite an old series. I absolutely love it.

I've gone through the series a few times and as I said listening i'm currently listening to the first book again foundation isaac asimov go to audible audible.com slash unmade get your free book with this uh 30 day trial membership and i would say make it foundation isaac asimov you can also text unmade to 500 500 if you're in the usa this is an idea that I have labelled Raiders of the Lost Podcast. Oh, yeah. The idea is that you interview people or listen to bits of audio, or preferably both, from podcasts that people made and then maybe only released one episode or better yet didn't release the episode the pilot never got off the ground for some reason the podcast didn't become a podcast and we go into the archives and listen to parts of it talk about what could have been talk about why it didn't come to be interview the makers about why they decided not to make it in the end that's the idea so it's

like a it's a look at it's not like the Unmade podcast where we're just like, you know, having these flights of fancy and things that obviously we won't do. This would be things that were like going to be a podcast. They were, they recorded the pilot, everything was good, but for some reason, and it could be, hopefully there would be a variety of different reasons, the podcast never came to be. And this would be a chance to finally have a listen and see what it was like or talk about why it was never recorded and things like that. So what you're saying is it's totally unrelated

to the Indiana Jones film Raiders of the Lost Ark. Very, very much unrelated. That's disappointing. But anyway, carry on. I thought you might be disappointed. I thought I would be taking you on a bit of an emotional rollercoaster there. You were. But anyway, talk about your idea anyway.

Unless someone had an idea to make a podcast about Raiders of the Lost Ark and then they only made one episode and George Lucas put an injunction against them so they couldn't. That would be an episode. That would be a very confusing episode of Raiders of the Lost podcast. Not unrelated to that. The reason I was excited, I watched this documentary yesterday about Raiders of the Lost Ark.

So you thought you were going to be super well-researched, but my idea would have blown me away. I mean, you know, we love this film, but it's about, you probably heard of those three guys that made that film shot-for-shot remake of the Raiders of the Lost Ark in their backyard. Yes. That's such a great story. And there's a doco on Netflix about it now.

They did it from the age of 11 through to 19. Oh, it's just such a marvellous time. I just loved it. Speaking of wasting time. It's been their entire teenage years making a pointless film. Oh, it's fantastic. Well, it's fantastic. Well, it's a little bit the same because they finally went back to it because there was one shot they couldn't get, the shot with the aeroplane,

you know, where he punches the guy and fights the guy with the aeroplane propeller. Yeah. So they had to go back and make that finally as adults. How did they deal with the fact that their actors had aged eight years during a time where ageing changes you a lot? They just went with it. They just played around. They just went with it. They just played with it. They just went with it.

But they also didn't shoot it in sequence. So they... It's so awesome. So you'd be 11 years old in one shot, 18 years old in the next shot, and then back to 11. It's really cool. Anyway, but that is...

Well, it's... Yeah, yeah. So that's Raiders of the Lost, film we made about Raiders of the Lost Ark. This is Raiders of the Lost podcast idea. Okay, so where are you going to find these? You're going to get people to give them to you, is that right? You're right.

This is a challenge. So now you are getting into the intricacies of how to do it. Yeah. But luckily I know a few people who work in like podcast networks who are quite prolific and make lots of podcasts. So I imagine some of those people either themselves or will know people who've had ideas and recorded one and maybe the hosts fell out or one of the hosts decided they then couldn't do it or they couldn't find a sponsor.

I imagine some of those people who I'm already friends with could probably line me up with three or four at least. And then I guess you'd have to like put a public appeal out and get the word out and would you would you play parts of the podcast that would be the dream like I don't know if it'd be possible for all of them but ones where they actually recorded it and didn't put it out that would be good I mean I think where I got this idea from besides just the name quite often you just have a cool name and you think now what's the idea for the podcast I also got the idea because you and i had recorded episodes of the unmade podcast our pilot we had sound problems with but we did release in the end but we recorded another episode

where you had a corruption of your sound that was as you remember unretrievable so we actually have a whole podcast of the unmade podcast that no one will ever hear because it is just unlistenable comes let me get this small fact out that i recall from my primary school years is it and that made me think like that's like a hidden treasure now isn't it that's like a that's like a a gem and like quite an enticing idea. And it made me wonder how many other things there are. There also could be episodes of podcasts that are podcasts and they do release every week, but there's one episode they didn't release for some reason.

That is something you could feature on Raiders of the Lost podcast. For a legal reason or? Well, if it's for a legal reason, that might stop us as well. But there could be like, let me like, here's just like a a made-up example that isn't true because it's so long ago but say someone was making uh a big podcast episode all about the twin towers in new york just before they were destroyed you know and then they would have thought well we can't release this now this is really inappropriate and

really terrible things happened so they would shelf that and then maybe they never took it back off the shelf and like years later now we would as you know so much time has passed you could say let's have a listen to what what you'd done and what you'd recorded or you'd or you were making a podcast about someone who died or there are there are lots of reasons things can get shelved and if it's appropriate to bring them back off the shelf this would be a really nice forum to do it in it's a bit like with albums where they have, you know, unreleased songs that come out years later. Yeah, it is.

It's unreleased material. Maybe because maybe unreleased material from a big successful podcast or maybe from a podcast that never, ever started. Just lost podcasts. It can have both meanings, can't it? That's a fascinating idea. That's fascinating. I feel like there would need to be a compelling reason to come at it in other words the either the person involved

went on to make a podcast that was really successful or it was a good idea that's a bit of a gem i think there is like a kind of a certain tragedy and beauty to things that didn't succeed yeah and never made it out and i think this would tap into that i also think it would be like a nice way to learn about other podcasts because you wouldn't be very genre specific. So there are so many genres of podcasts and I imagine this could touch all those genres. Here's a fictional podcast that Bill and Jane were going to make, which was going to be like a play. And they recorded the first one and then they couldn't because Jane got pregnant. So they ended up not doing it. But here's episode one they made,

and it was a fantasy about wizards in the forest. So one week on Raiders of the Lost podcast, you'd be hearing and talking about a fictional podcast, and the next week it would be, now here's a podcast that Dave and Bill were going to do, a two dudes talking podcast, and they recorded one episode. And then a week later, Dave had a car crash. And so they could never make

they couldn't make any more episodes yeah the backstories would be interesting yeah how it came about a dream and idea the story about why it didn't come to be is like the narrative of the episode and and the color and the seasoning is listening to bits of the recording if such things exist does touch on i mean we're talking about podcasts so it's interesting particularly now when they're so prolific when there's, you know, so many people are trying to make one or get one up or have ideas and so forth. But it's fascinating.

I love reading about the history of Hollywood and the films that didn't get made or the films that was going to be made at one studio with one actor and then ends up somewhere else as a totally different film. But the idea, you know, it as a totally different film but the idea you know it's like that character but the film's different so you are forever looking at yeah that was going to be a creative endeavor and the writer wanted it this way and then it didn't happen and masterpieces that have unfinished other masterpieces underneath them that were

abandoned you know da vinci just said nah and you know painted over it and then did something else i'll do something about The Last Supper instead. I mean, you look at people who do have successful podcasts. Some of those people probably, I mean, this happened to us. You know, when they decided to make a podcast, they decided what's our podcast going to be? What's it going to be about? And before they settled on their idea and the thing they were going to do, what didn't they make?

I mean, that is becoming a bit unmade podcast. It's all getting a bit meta now. But anyway, Riders of the Lost Podcast. And it's a cool title. It is a cool title. It's a bit of a red herring, but it is a cool title. Do you think it's too much of a red herring? Do you think that's the wrong name for it?

Oh, no, it might work. Because the hosts of the Raiders, aren't they? The hosts are raiding these archives of lost podcasts that no one's heard. Yeah. Raiders of the Lost Ark is one of those film titles that I said and knew instinctively from as young as I can possibly remember all my life and never really stopped and thought, oh, what is it?

Oh, yes, okay, so they're raiding. Yes, people are seeking to raid the Lost Ark. Oh, right. It's just a word that exists in my head like Jedi that I've never, you know what I mean? I remember. i've told this story so many times you must have heard this story 10 times and people who listen to me in podcasts have probably heard it before but i my my dad being a film critic i remember when he came

back the night that he'd seen raiders of the lost ark for the first time and you have to remember what a different film that was when it came out it was such a like a paradigm changing film it's like 1982 or three, was it? I think it might have been 82. Anyway, Dad came home from the cinema. It hadn't come out yet. The guy that ran the cinema in Adelaide had got, like, an advanced copy on the reel, and he'd watched it himself,

and he was so blown away by it, he phoned my dad at work at the newspaper and said, you've got to come and watch this straight away. So my dad went to the cinema, and the guy just played it for my dad on his own wow and then dad was blown away and he came home and like he told he was telling my mum and and us i've just seen the most amazing film it was incredible and he started telling us about certain parts of the film and then this happened and then this happened and then he said and then towards the end, towards the end, the hero gets lowered down on a rope into this big pit full of snakes. And there it is, the Ark, the Ark from the Bible.

And I just went, wow, did it still have animals in it? That's awesome. Not that Ark, Brady. The other Ark. That's great. That's gold. Are we done with that. The other arc. That's great. That's gold. Are we done with that? Can we move on to mine?

We're done. All right. Let's move on to, we've got another Tim one. What do you got? Funny that you've been speaking about childhood memories. This one is called My Earliest Memory. Oh, nice. And it's such a fascinating thing to think about because ever since I had this idea,

I've been trying to think what my earliest memory is. And it's really hard to nail down. So when you start thinking about it, you start describing, I can think of a particular scene, but then you start thinking and describing the scene around it and the circumstances. And it's sort of, it's hazy. But then when I told mum what I thought was my earliest memory she sort of made a comment about oh that was at so-and-so house and so you know by then we'd already done you know this trip and done that i'm like oh so i've got memories and i've got a bit out of order

yeah so you need a bit of help and that can break the spell a little bit but yeah do you think hearing people's earliest memories has the danger though i love this idea by the way yeah but do you think it has the danger of being a little bit like people talking about their dreams because you know how the thing that people don't like about hearing other people's dreams is why they're not real but also they're a bit incomplete and don't make sense yeah and i think it's the same with your earliest memory normally your earliest memory is not like a really crystallized story with a narrative from start to end it's usually just fragments like i remember my dad was holding a donut and he was wearing a red shirt

there's things like that and you're like okay well that's not much of a story that's just like a fragment of a memory and i'm wondering if most because i'm thinking about my first memory and my first memory is like that it's like it's a fragment it's like just a few seconds of a sequence so well let's try it what What is it? Well, my first memory actually has a really cool story attached to it. Well, there you go. That's, that's pure coincidence that my first memory also is attached to a really amazing story that came later in life. All right. You're going to have to strap yourself in for this one, man. Cause I'll tell you the memory, but then I'll tell you the cool story. All right. My

earliest memory is walking across the tarmac at adelaide airport to get on a plane to fly to tasmania because my late grandmother was getting remarried and i went to her wedding as a tiny little boy and i remember being walked across the tarmac to get on the plane and walking past the plane engine and being like intimidated by the sound of the engine and the size of the engine. And my parents and the air stewardess who was walking us across, trying to just calm me down and have a joke with me and make me feel okay about something that was a little bit scary to me, walking past the big plane engine to get on the plane. That's the end of the memory.

That's a pretty definitive one, I guess. An airport and a plane. That's cool. That's more than just, I remember looking at a bookcase in the lounge room. But I guess that to imprint itself as a memory, it's got to be a reasonably impressive moment. But what's the story attached to it? What's the cool story? Well, the story that's attached to it is that I don't remember this, but on the subsequent flight, as we were trying to land in Tasmania which is I imagine most people know is an island off the coast of Australia a state of Australia that's

right it's also a state but we don't yeah yeah okay whatever we were we were trying to land at Devonport and there was bad weather and the plane tried to land a few times and couldn't and was circling and waiting for like an opportunity and there was a really really tense atmosphere on the plane and at a really inopportune moment as you know the plane was shuddering and it was silent and everyone was like living in fear i sort of piped up really really loudly mommy mommy are we gonna crash and like it's it like freaked everyone on the plane out and people going shut that kid up shut him up like because i was like making everybody scared. Cause I just like, I said what everyone was thinking.

And this has been like a famous Heron family story for a million years that always gets told about little Brady on the plane going, mommy, mommy, are we going to crash? And people like mutiny on the plane because of this boy that was scaring everyone. So anyway, I was at a party years later, like in my twenties in Adelaide, and I met some girl at the party I was just making conversation with and she was from Tasmania. And I, you know, I didn't have many Tasmania stories, but I had that story. So I told her that story and her face went white and she said, you're not going to believe this, but there's a famous story in my family about my grandmother being on a plane that was circling and couldn't land and a little boy at the front of the plane saying really loudly, mummy, mummy, are we going to crash?

And everyone on the plane like freaking out. And she's always told the story about this little boy and you're that little boy. And it was like, and she couldn't believe it. And she got out her phone and phoned her grandmother in Tasmania and said, you're not going to believe who I'm with. I'm with the little boy that said, mummy, mummy, are we going to crash? And then she put me on the phone and I spoke to the lady. Oh, wow. What a coincidence. That is a coincidence. That is a coincidence. It is. There you go. So, your earliest memory is remembered by someone else. Well, I don't remember that part of it, but I remember getting on the plane for that trip,

but I don't remember like the circling and I don't remember the wedding or anything in Tasmania. I just remember, I remember the loud engine scaring me. Yeah. I was probably so freaked out by the plane and the engine, that's why I said, mummy, mummy, are we going to crash? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So what's your earliest memory?

Oh, look, there's, yeah, I'm going to prove your theory correct. It may not be that interesting just running from one room into another room and climbing on a toy it's amazing i know i know i was 12 at the time what was the toy it was one of those little three um wheeled cars like a little motorbike thing that's yellow. And I just remember saying no, you know, obviously being disobedient or something and running into another room and getting on the toy.

That's as early as I can remember. And I've got vague memories of the atmosphere, remembering what house it was in. I'm just picturing this podcast idea now. It's like, welcome to my worst memory. Today we have Tom Cruise. Tom, what was your earliest memory? Well, I was running from one room to another and I got on a toy.

Thank you, Tom Cruise. Next week, Julia Roberts. Well, the skill of the podcast host would be in extracting then, as I extracted an amazing story from you so your terrible story is my fault you've not been able to do anything with mine i asked you what the toy was i got i got the three-wheeled car out that didn't come out in the original story it was like an interrogation i wasn't going to share that but but I let it slip in the end. It's like I extracted a confession. Hang on.

Earlier when you told the story, it was four wheels. It's not a particularly long podcast. You could have an alternative podcast that's called My Most Recent Memory. And it usually is just the thing that happened a few seconds ago. That's right. It's my most recent memory is when you told the story about your earliest memory. It's pretty much the same story, except it's my car.

It's instead of the toy. I just walked out and got out of the car. And I'm consistent. That's pretty much what I do. That's my thing. All you're capable of remembering is getting into cars. Walking into another room and getting into a car. Oh, yeah.

Sorry. Yeah. Yeah. Well, look, of course, it's a doorway into a conversation around the sorts of, you know, where were you living and why were you living there and what were the circumstances of that town and those sorts of things. And usually, I think when you start talking about this kind of idea, something usually, not always, but usually, something triggers.

So you say, oh, you know, like I know that toy. Yeah, I had that toy. The reason I, and, you know, you go from there because the conversation is fascinating and there's nostalgic stuff, but there are specific details attached to it. For instance, the pattern of the carpet, I can remember. This sort of orange sort of coloured thing, which was big in the 70s, pattern of the carpet. This story is flooding with details now.

Gradually. Yes, I've disclosed the carpet angle too now. I think this idea has potential. I don't think you would be the ideal guest by the sounds of it. Well, no, no, obviously not. No, no, no. You'd need to find people with better earlier memories, but you'd have to make sure they don't fake it as well

because I have very early memories that are more interesting. So, for instance, you know what I mean? And you could swap your, you know, that's what I mean. You sit there thinking, is this the earliest memory? Oh, that's not very good. I'm going to swap it for this other memory. I'm going to swap it for my ninth memory, which is a doozy. That's right.

Well, we went to Holland when I was a kid, you see, so on this trip. And there's heaps of memories there. And I was only three. So that's pretty early. And I can't locate the age before the end of this other one but it feels like it was younger but there's cool memories you know like of getting lost in the fish markets in in um in Holland and riding the cheese you know they carry the cheese around on those things those um sort of between two men they they run along with

the cheese and I sat on top of the cheese and And so there's all these. I thought riding the cheese was like a euphemism or something, but you're actually riding cheese. Yeah, literally riding the cheese in the marketplace, you know. You know how Clint Eastwood made the film Sully and he managed to make a whole film out of a pretty short incident and now he's making that one about the terrorist attack or the terrorist attack that was thwarted in Paris by those guys on the train. I if clint eastwood would have the skills to turn your memory of

walking from one room into another and getting on a three-wheeled car into an entire motion picture like just using that as the kernel around which he builds an entire motion picture it's a tim's earliest memory filmed by Clint Eastwood. And he just keeps flashing back to that orange carpet and different angles. We've tapped a vein here. This is cool. You can just tell him, telling his lawyers,

I want this copyrighted from everyone. I want the rights. I want the rights. I want the rights. Tim's just sold the rights to his earliest memory. Yeah, yeah. I mean, then I wouldn't... And there'll be other like spinoff movies where the car has four wheels,

but they're like unauthorised. And you'd be called in as a consultant and you'd be saying, no, no, it's the wrong shade of orange. It was darker orange than that, I'm sure of it. There are a lot of details in this. It's all I got. But the memory, why does that memory persist? That's an interesting factor of how memory works

and why things are remembered. Just a glimpse, that little moment. Why that little moment? It's unremarkable in every way. I do think it has potential as an idea, and I think it is fascinating. Like, I wanted to hear what yours. It's one of those things you want to know. Yeah, I was curious to hear what yours was.

I have to admit I haven't got a great curiosity about it okay i wouldn't want to hear from just normal people i'd only want to hear from really famous people yeah which is probably why you wanted to hear from me that's right that's right i only brought it up to get it out of you for that secret book about me you're working on that's right harren alive harren the untold story as told to tim heine my idea i want you to think of that genre of kind of it's usually kind of crimey eyewitnessy stuff where people hear quite compelling interviews with people who usually had something happen to them. Like they were in the bank when it was robbed or they were on the plane when it crashed.

You get those sort of compelling interviews. But this is a series of interviews called rick rolled and it's a series of people telling a story about a time they got rick rolled and how it happened right are you familiar with rick rolling i am i have heard it before and i'm trying to remember what it is rick rolled is when you click on a link thinking you're going to see something and you get taken to the rick astley music video oh yes never going to see something and you get taken to the Rick Astley music video. Oh, yes. Never going to give you up. Yes, I have heard of this.

And like a lot of people I know, well, you know, lots of people have been fooled by this. You'll see a link that will say, oh, look, here's the new Star Wars trailer. So everyone, like millions of people will click on it and it's some practical joker just linking to never going to give you up. So I've been rickrolled many times. I have rickrolled people from time to time, including in the Unmade Podcast show notes.

Oh, I haven't noticed that. That's awesome. So the idea would be to have these serious interviews with people about being Rickrolled. Oh, it was a dark and stormy night. And I was cruising through the internet looking for X, Y, and Z. And then suddenly... and then suddenly... The first known Rick roll seems to have occurred in 2007 where someone linked to a trailer for the new Grand Theft Auto 4 game

that had come out and jokingly it was linked to Rick Astley, Never Gonna Give You Up, and then it kind of went from there and has become a big phenomenon. In 2008, so this is 10 years ago, in 2008 a poll by survey usa estimated that at least eight million american adults had been rickrolled and that number can only have soared since and that's just americans so i think there's enough people out there who it's happened to so this would be it would be rickrolled the podcast the people telling their stories that is a funny idea and it would have like all dramatic, like it would have dramatic score

and that like it's a really serious thing that happened. That'd be very short. That'd be like little short comedy nuggets, wouldn't they? Yeah, yeah. I don't remember what it was that first took me to, well, the first time I was Rick Rolled. I do remember it happening and laughing and laughing and laughing. Like it's just the choice of

song and artist i don't know why he's not even the most ridiculous artist or something it's but it's just something about the the fact the the fluff of the song or the choice yeah it's just the right level of crap that's right it's not it's not like ludicrous like some like some you know something in another language that's so culturally strange you don't understand it yeah and it's not super cool it's just like it could it could almost like you could almost think someone thought it was cool but not quite i remember the song i remember the song um charting in 1988 or so, I think maybe, 87, 88? 87.

87 it was. Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. No, it was just another pop song. Cool. Yeah. It was in that sort of Stock Aitken-Waterman period where those songs were quite acceptable. Yeah, yeah.

There are a few of those. I'll tell you one song I often get in my mind around that era, which is exactly the same, and it's Jason Donovan's solo song called Nothing Can Divide Us. Oh, yeah, with love to guide us, nothing can divide us. With love to guide us, nothing can divide us. It's crazy how often I'm singing that song to myself. Well, if you've sung it once in the last 10 years,

that's already crazy. It is. How did it go? Like it was, you can put your trust in me. Something about love will have its victory. Set you free. Open up your arms or heart. And something, nothing can divide us.

That's great. You were hearing rumors. I can see it in your face. They try to get you to believe that someone else could take your place. And I remember opening TV Week magazine and seeing there a feature on, hey, this week Jason Donovan filmed, you know, we go behind the scenes on him filming his clip, the video clip, I can picture it, even though I haven't seen it.

The video clip had lots of close-ups of his face, didn't it? It was very tight on his face. Well, man, that's every video clip in history. No. There was lots of people bouncing around, wasn't there? I think there... Yeah, the music video involved a song, didn't around, wasn't there? Yeah, the music video involved a song, didn't it, in some way? There was TVs behind him and he was sort of on a little stage jumping around.

Oh, yeah. So, yeah, that's right. It's kind of looking up his nose a bit. That's why I thought it was different. Like the camera's just not quite in the right place, in my opinion. I forgot about the TVs behind him. You're right. Yeah, yeah. American viewers obviously would never have heard of Jason Donovan. He was huge in the

UK and in Australia and probably other parts of Europe. Well, they will have heard a little bit of Nothing Can Divide Us in the last few seconds. I'm sure they... So I don't think they'll be seeking him out now, Harry. Our own rendition certainly would have turned into an earworm for them, I'm sure. But do you know what would be the worst? These people go looking up the Jason Donovan song and being Rickroll. It's like, damn it, I wanted Jason Donovan. And I got Rick Astley.

We should start a new version of a Rickroll where every link we can find that legitimately claims to link to Rick Astley, we change to a Nothing Can Divide Us link. So people who want to watch the Rick Astley video keep having to see that Jason Donovan song. They go looking for it. That's fair. We inverted back the Rick Roll on itself. So if you want to see it, you can't. That's beautiful.

What do we call it? Is it a Donovan roll or a Jason roll? A Donner turn or a Donner reverse or something. Something about the doubling back. A Donovan double back or something like that. A Donovan double back. It's not quite as cool as a Rick roll, is it? Don't cry.

You must have heard some things about me. as cool as a rickroll is it if you could go back in time and change the rickroll to another video because that video has obviously been watched tens and tens of millions of times now what would you change it to what would be another video that you could have done the rickroll with so it's got to be forgetting the name has that same feeling of oh i can't believe i've been sent to this yeah that's a good question the colette version of ring my bell ring my that's right that period of the late 80s is pretty it's pretty cool for that sort of stuff the earlier 80s are more sort of darker cool you know what i mean like it's like new order and and the 90s sort of changes a little bit it feels a bit too familiar and recent maybe the mid 90s like that i guess there's the song from nah the song from friends that's too ubiquitous but

yeah it's got to be it's got to have like a degree of obscurity too it's got to be raising someone from obscurity too so it can't be someone famous so degree of obscurity too. It's got to be raising someone from obscurity too. So it can't be someone famous. So one of my favourite songs from that era is Coco Mo by the Beach Boys, but they're too well known. No, it can't be that. No. It could be like Girl, I'm Gonna Miss You by Milli Manilli.

It's a tragedy for me to see the dream is over And I'll never will forget the day we met Girl, I'm gonna miss you Yeah. Well, see, Milli Vanilli is who came to mind when I was thinking of who a Rick Roll could have gone to. But it doesn't quite work because they were discredited. You know what I mean?

It's too heavy a point. Like, oh, it's gone to these guys who didn't see it. Yeah, they're not wholesome enough. Yeah, yeah. Because they were caught miming and they weren't the real singers, yeah. I like the Jason Donovan idea. He could have been. But I'll tell you what's interesting about the Rick Roll.

It's almost like the culture is saying back to everyone, you know, you once loved this. Remember, you made this number one. Like, what are you doing today? Because, remember, you once made this number one yeah like what are you doing today because remember you once made this number one you did this you know apparently i mean not including other deals and public appearances and stuff but just from youtube advertising and stuff apparently he's only made like you know like about 20 bucks from that because most of the money goes to the person who like wrote the song and he only gets like the performer's share which is a pittance. It's often with those deals.

That's a real shame. But it's a bit like Kevin Bacon, you know, with the seven degrees of Kevin Bacon, where he's become famous because of it. It's just entered the lexicon. It'll end up as a trivial pursuit question. You can't put money on it. That's a millstone, though, isn't it?

That's not a good thing. You don't reckon? No, being known for some joke. I just think it's a funny thing. Like, he can't look back and love the song, can he? I mean, it's not a good thing you don't reckon no being known for some joke i just think it's a funny thing like he can't look back and love the song can he i mean it's like a pop song maybe he takes pride in it but he's sick of but pretty calm with the rickroll stuff he says as long as it doesn't embarrass his daughter he's cool with it right yeah who's the other guy who does um who sort of turned his funny personality back on everyone with his Twitter replies. Is it James Blunt?

You know, who's got that song, which is a nightmare of a song. A saccharine. Yeah, you're beautiful. It's not a nightmare. It's just very saccharine. Oh, it's just... I remember hearing it for the first time in a shop and listening and going, this can't be serious, this lyric, really.

You're beautiful. You're beautiful. You're beautiful. You're beautiful. You're beautiful. It's true. Oh. Oh, have you not got a heart? Is that what it's called? Have you not got a heart?

Have you not got a heart? It's you're beautiful, isn't it? No, I don't like to sing. I saw your face in a crowded place, isn't it? I don't know. I don't know. If you sang it, I might know. That's a podcast.

Brady sings. Brady sings the hits. That'd be beautiful because I wouldn't need a co-host or anything. I could just sit here alone in my office singing songs to a microphone all day long, uploading them to the internet. I'll tell you what. Someone said to me the other day the most beautiful thing I've ever heard. And it was totally unintentional. I was playing in a band and I was just sort of, you know, every now and then you're sort of, I was playing guitar and every now and then you're-

Just working on your music. Yeah. Yeah. And I was just playing and I said to the person, the musician next to me, I'm sorry, you know, I might sing every now and then, you know, you might hear, because you just, when you're playing, you accidentally might sing quietly or something like that. And she said, oh, no, that's okay. We've got your album. And I said, what? And she goes, we've got your album.

And there was like a little moment, you know, where I could go, cool. I love that 500 miles thing you do. You know what I mean? Where I could go, cool. I love that 500 miles thing you do. Well, I said, and it turns out, of course, it was a mistaken identity. It was.

Really? And it wasn't my album that she had. Whose album was it? Oh, just someone else who plays guitar from time to time. Eric Clapton. But just for a moment, it was almost like, maybe I do have an album. You were like, I mean, we've already established how bad your memory is. That's right.

Maybe I do have an album and people do have it. It's like, what would the cover design be? It's got a cool cover. Tim spent the next two weeks on eBay trying to find it Where's this album? It's got to be great We're walking into like secondhand record stores Like I know this sounds crazy But have you got any records with a guy that looks like me?

Imagine that And then you found an album that you'd released And completely forgotten about and it was awesome. Oh, my God. It was like, wow, this is good. This is really good. Be like one of those musicians, you know, those band who have become famous and then gone through like a weird drug phase or something like that

and they've finally dried up and got themselves sorted out and they're like, now I've got to learn these songs again and they send someone out to find a lyric sheet and chord chart and everything. Wasn't there someone, wasn't it Ozzy Osbourne or someone who was listening to a song and said to like his bandmates, this is really good. We should do this. And they said, that's us, you idiot. Can't remember someone like that.

Yeah, it's got it. It sounds like Ozzy Osbourne, doesn't it? Anyway, that's now, what were we talking about? Your album. My album. just getting back to my album but it's almost like this this girl was being rickrolled it's like oh wow he's this great musician and then suddenly i start playing and it's like hang on this is rick astley he's really lost it since uh releasing that album that's right that's right did you like correct them or did you just let them believe that you'd released an album? Oh, no, no, no, no.

I know we worked it out pretty quickly. As soon as you started playing and singing. That's right. It was pretty obvious by the time I'd tuned up that, yeah. It's like, yeah, it's called Ak Tung Baby. Perhaps you've got a copy. That is your best album to date, in my opinion. It is.

It is. I think it's probably the best album that I own. Should we get to the business end of the podcast where the really good ideas happen? And that is the ideas that have come from our Patreon supporters? Yes, yes. More specifically from our canadian podcast supporters oh is this one canadian no all right we do not have a canadian this time i have selected one from leo who grew up in france so that's kind of there's a canadian angle I guess there you know language wise and Australia

grew up in France and Australia currently lives in France but enjoys a semi-nomadic lifestyle he says so maybe he does spend time in Canada now let me find out what interesting facts Leo had to say about himself a lot about travel I said tell me an interesting thing we should know about you and Leo says not about me but I loved visiting the Moscow Space Museum. Absolutely stunning from the outside and interesting inside. Everyone should visit it if they happen to be in Moscow. Have you been there? I have been to Moscow, but I've not been to the Moscow Space Museum. Okay.

So I missed a trick. What does Leo do while listening to the Unmade podcast? He does the dishes, he cooks, and he goes out to buy groceries or take out. That's pretty uninteresting. But I was hoping for something a bit more dramatic there. But I guess that is prime podcast listening time. Do you listen back to old episodes of the Unmade podcast and think, God, I was good that day? I have, but I listen to them once and then i don't listen to them again except when we're

going to record another podcast on the way i generally chuck on whatever the last one was to kind of get me into the tempo and the mood and stuff yeah yeah because it's pretty it's pretty advanced high-end stuff doing this podcast so you've got you've got to like warm up and do stretches and stuff like that well Well, it's funny. It's the opposite. It's often because I'll have had like serious stuff in my head and you've often fed back to me. Like it's like, okay, you've got to find the right tone

because you've often said, you know, you're pretty serious or something like that. So I kind of want to get into a fun us mood and, you know, so I listen to it and go, oh, yeah, that's right. We tell stories like this. Well, Leo has an idea for us leo's idea for a podcast is called hate mail it would be a humorous podcast in every episode a guest reads and discusses his or her favorite hate mail most likely guests would be people like scientists or skeptics comedians or politicians so people who get a lot of hate mail

would come on and discuss it. Yeah, that's interesting. There's a bit of an equivalent of that already, though. There's a bit of a phenomena of people reading them out on, I've seen Facebook clips of people reading out some things. Yeah, it's What's His Name, the comedy show in America where people read their hateful tweets, hateful tweets they've received and they read them straight to camera. Yeah.

They're really good, aren't they? It is a good avenue. The podcast idea might be able to get some good people on, but I get the feeling that if people are going to do this sort of thing, they'll do it themselves, like a politician or a celebrity would record it themselves as some sort of campaign or maybe even a video. I don't know.

No, people will – it's Jimmy Kimmel. Is it Jimmy Kimmel's show where people – I think it might beimmy kimmel is it jimmy kimmel's show where people i think it might be his show where people go on and read the tweets i think it might be it's not jimmy fallon i don't think so and like so once you get a forum to do it it becomes almost like a safe place to do it so i think that's why this podcast would be a good idea like if someone just goes out on their own and says look at all this hateful stuff i've been getting they're kind of taking a risk they'll either be taken sympathetically or it could exacerbate the problem but it feels like when you do it in like a safe environment to do it like the jimmy kimmel show

where everyone does it or maybe this podcast that leo suggested it would become a place where it's okay to talk about yeah yeah yeah if it could build that reputation that's right yeah people might go on and it becomes a thing you do. It could be quite empowering. I think it's a good idea. I wonder if it would be quite, I mean, not that I care about this or not, because I watch a lot of negative stuff, but I wonder if it would become quite a negative thing to listen to.

Like it's not something that you would enjoy in a lot of ways, would it? It might get you down sometimes. It might, but you'd be mocking it as well, though. Yeah, I guess, yeah. If you did it with a really fun... Yeah, it would depend on the tone of the show, you're right. It can't be a poor me thing. Like, you can't go on and then it's, and then it said this, and then they said this.

And then they threatened to, yeah, they were threatening to kill me and they said they were going to send this through their post. The person reading them couldn't be, like, cowed by it, could they? Because that would be quite... No, that's right. They can't. It's got to be, can you believe how ridiculous this is? Or can you believe, you know, what you get? Yeah. And it also can't trivialise it in a way, I guess, because this is, you know, a bit of an issue. But the Jimmy Kimmel thing, it is sort of like, can you believe someone said this to me? The person has a certain level of confidence or feels it in the

fact that everyone's on their side saying, I can't believe they said that to you. Leo says he got the idea from two sources. One was the comedian Jim Jeffries after he did his famous gun control stuff, received so much interesting hate mail that it made for quite interesting content. And also there's a podcast, a skeptic game show podcast where they once had a hate mail contest and the contestants had to try to one up each other with the most ridiculous hate mail they'd ever received. Oh, wow. Okay. I could dig up some good stuff. Really? Mainly stuff aimed at you on the Unmade Podcast email, but I tend not to show you those things. I appreciate that. I still don't want to see them. Okay. I've got your back. I've got your back. There's going to be a whole lot more after your ideas today. Talk about a waste of time.

This podcast is a waste of time. Oh, you're writing your own stuff now. Yeah. So to anyone out there, we've done it. Okay. I'll give you an early memory. I don't even know what that means, but it sounds threatening. Let's just say anyone who says, I'll give you,

it's like something you say in a bar before a fight. I'll give you whatever you've just said. I'll give you 20 bucks. I'll give you a good handshake and a pat on the back. Anyway, thanks, Leo. If you want to support the podcast, go to patreon.com slash unmade FM. If you are a podcast supporter, I get in touch and say, give us your ideas at some point and you can submit them. You can support us and not submit an

idea as well. We'll take your money either way. I really appreciate the patron supporters. That's cool. Really appreciate it. It's nice, isn't it? I tell you what, every time someone supports us on Patreon, I get like an email saying you have have a new supporter. And it's always a nice part of my day. Yeah. It's like a really positive thing that someone has liked what you're doing enough and appreciates it enough to say, you know, it's just a dollar or something, but just to say, yes, this means something to me and I want to support it.

Yeah. I'm not saying, I mean, I also appreciate people who just listen just for the sake of listening, so you don't have to. But it is a nice thing that happens, and we really appreciate it. I appreciate it. I was on the phone tonight to someone who, and I said, I need to go because we're coming to record this. And they said, oh, yeah, I've been listening to them.

And I was really surprised that that person knew about it, although now it makes a bit of sense. Of course, they'd know about it through social media or whatever. But I was like, yeah, that's cool, and they loved it. And I was like, oh, that's fantastic. I felt so encouraged you should have said to your supporters on Patreon and when they said no you should have just hung up

that's terrible that's like sending hate mail back the other way that's terrible you Outro Music