The Unmade Podcast - Special: Forever Tommyball

Episode Date: August 17, 2018

Another special from the world of Tommyball - an exclusive interview with a legend of the game. Support Tommyball by backing us on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/unmadeFM Join the discussion of this episode on our subreddit: https://redd.it/9818q1 USEFUL LINKS Previous Tommyball Special: https://www.unmade.fm/episodes/special-tommyball Where it all began, in The Unmade Podcast episode 4: https://www.unmade.fm/episodes/episode4 Check us out on iTunes and elsewhere... Details here: https://www.unmade.fm/how-to-listen/

Ladies and gentlemen, please take your seats. The show is about to begin. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you. Thank you very much. I'm your host tonight, Brady Haran, and on behalf of the Sofa Shop, I'd like to welcome you to this, the latest in our series of Q&As with Tommy Bowl legends. Don't you do a thing until you've seen the Sofa Shop. Don't you do a thing until you've seen the Sofa Shop. Now, last week's Q&A with Hall of Famer Fred Dickerson was a sellout and I'm sure you'll all agree it was a splendid night. I'd also like you to know that everyone seated in row G that night has made a full recovery and won't be pressing any charges.

So allow me to introduce tonight's guest. He is of course a 13 times runner-up in the Super Cup final he's a nine times runner-up in the league MVP the scorer of more than 37,000 do wacky points a poll on the league's myspace page named this man the second greatest player of the 1990s the Tommy Ball Tribune has described him as a man who left a mark on the game that will never be forgotten, no matter how hard we try. He remains the only player to be sent off twice in the same game for inappropriate conduct.

His nicknames are many and varied. The Uncaped Crusader, the Crooked Captain, but perhaps most famously, the Traralgon Tattletail. But with his wild playing days behind him, he's now an outspoken yet much-loved member of our Tommyball commentary team. It is, of course, the legend, Tim Hine. Thank you.

Thank you very much. Tim, welcome to the stage. Thank you, thank you. How have you been? A lot of people thought you wouldn't be here tonight after last week's events and court case. It's such a great surprise to have you here, I have to say. Well, you know me, it's the fans first.

Well, the agent first, obviously, he gets a portion. But the fans first. The fans, obviously, those who are here tonight, want to see me and it's a pleasure to be here i'm just pleased to be well i'm contractually obliged to be here and remunerated to be here and uh it's wonderful to be here again thank you and it's funny you should speak of fans because tonight is all about fans now i know everyone here in the audience has paid well two hundred dollars a ticket to be here

but with a bit of a change for tradition we're not going to reward them by letting them ask questions of you. Instead we have allowed our Patreon supporters to send in a bunch of questions about you, your Tommyball career, the state of the game now and they're from all over the world. I'd like to put those questions

to you and we'll just hear what you have to say. Fire away. Our first question comes from Ross from Scotland and Ross says All over the world, I'd like to put those questions to you and we'll just hear what you have to say. Fire away. Fire away. Our first question comes from Ross from Scotland. And Ross says, Hi, Tim. I wanted to hear more about your controversial opinion on the new Hawkeye camera technology compared to the traditional use of actual hawk's eyes.

Are highly accurate scores really more important than the spirit of Tommyball? You're forever living in the tension, aren't you, with a game like Tommy Ball between holding to the tradition and the spirit of the past and moving with technology. But this is one of those occasions where the tradition was more accurate, I think. I mean, the facts don't bear that out, but I think, and I think Ross thinks so too. Thank you, Ross. Our next question comes from Albert,

who describes himself as a long-time diehard Canadian Tommyball fan. He says, go Montreal Tukes. He's a big fan of the Tukes. He says, do you think Tommyball is a bad sport for youth to be playing? When did you start yourself? As we all know, only people over the age of 18 may attend games, for obvious reasons. But I was wondering

whether or not I should support my children in their Tommy Ball dreams. Absolutely and I mean this is where I really am quite controversial but I think it's vital. Some people don't agree and obviously there are all sorts of reasons for that but it's vital for kids to be playing games like Tommy Ball. It's vital unless, for us to identify the talent early who are going to survive some of those earlier games. Sure, illegal games, but still, they're there. And if you're going to come out, I mean, my kind of talent doesn't come across along every day.

And if you're going to have another Tim Hine, you need to be looking early to find out if and where there is another Tim Hine. Can you tell us a little bit about your early days of Tommy Ball yourself? Were you playing in illegal backyard games when you were young? Yeah, I was playing it in the backyard. I was playing with other kids around the area. We were all doing it. That's what it was like in those days. And you develop skills, you do learn some bad habits, but those bad habits, gee, they come in handy when you turn pro. And I would come

home sometimes with a broken arm, but that's vital stuff. I mean, that's just good childhood play. How did your parents feel about your sort of Tommy Bull dreams? Oh, they were very supportive. Very supportive. In fact, often I'd come home and they'd send me back to play for just a little bit longer,

feeling I hadn't really gone as intensely or been away as long as they hoped. Yeah, strange. Other kids were being called home for dinner I was being encouraged to stay out longer and I appreciate my parents support in that so you'd be out there playing tommy ball on your own presumably when all the other kids had gone home just like what just throwing yourself up against a wall or something all night yes sometimes sometimes for days yeah I mean it's that kind of commitment that young players need from their parents, investing in them, showing them that kind of attention, well, or lack of attention in my case, that proves so strategic.

And I'm very grateful for that. Have you seen your parents lately since what happened a few years ago? No, no, I haven't seen them since I was in grade five. Yeah, whatever talent I was born with, that just maximized it. And they were maximizers. And I'm a maximizer. And I've maximized my talent. And that's why, I mean, some of the statistics you were reading out before, they're very humble to hear. I mean, you might want to read some of them again a bit later on. But it all comes together and into one hell of a flourishing career. So your advice to Albert and his own young children is basically send them out.

See as little of them as possible. Get them playing. Well, you can't have too many distractions. Christmas, for instance, is a real distraction. I know in many, many families and with many kids, birthday parties, those sorts of things. Shorts, once a year, that's too much. You can't get away from the sort of concentration you need out in the backyard playing illegal Tommyball games.

Another question from Tyler Q. How do you feel about the shift to helium-filled bowls they implemented around the time of the Rhombus change? Do you feel it's changed the game too much? It certainly made it a higher sport, hasn't it? Yeah. Obviously, previously, they were using the hydrogen-filled bowls until what's forever been known as the Mini Hindenburg incident

with those bowls that were being stored on the sideline. It was a terrible day for Tommy Bowl. Spectacular footage, though. Still some of the most spectacular footage the sport's ever produced, but it did result in the switch to helium-filled yeah and and i think that's probably for the best i mean i mean there's been a fair again it's one of those things where i i thought playing with a with a hydrogen ball it did feel different it did uh feel it was in some ways harder to kick my my statistics probably in one sense if they were played with a helium ball my kicking would have

gone a little bit further my throwing might have been uh curved more i mean so we had a bit of a disadvantage and to some degree i think some consistency should be there safety again well these kind of rules and regulations if you if you live your life by those you end up not really living at all so yeah no i think that makes sense i mean you famously were a very big advocate of the switch to radon filled bowls although being a radioactive gas that would be tremendously dangerous but i i always felt you thought it would add some jeopardy to the game an element of risk that people love there's one rule i've got in life tommy ball first well tim first and tommy ball but tim and tommy ball i mean they're pretty much the same thing aren't they so i think tommy ball first whatever's good for the game is good.

How can it not be good for the players if it's good for the game? How can it not be good for the fans if it's good for Tommy Ball? That's a very concise saying. We have a question here from Jeffrey. This is a question of pronunciation. Is it Tommy Ball or Tommy Ball? I've heard it both ways, to be honest. Oh, Tommy not tommy ball no no no no tommy ball no when the game internationalized of course a bit of this comes in and that's fair enough different places and different pronunciations

but i'm a bit of a traditionalist so i i stick with tommy ball what about did you agree when they dropped the u when they wanted to try and Americanise it a bit? Tell me. It used to have a U in it. Did it? Yeah. Well. Like colour. Oh, right.

Well, some more intellectual types might, you know, who read, might have found that confusing. It's Tommyball. It's forever Tommyball for me. That's what's on my merchandise. That's the name that I've tried to trademark over the years and failed. But it's Tommy Ball. So there you have it.

Straight from the horse's mouth. It's Tommy Ball, not Tommy Ball. That's right. All right. We have one here from Sid67. Hi, Tim. How did you feel when Jim Mulligan broke your league record for most injuries in a single game? And a follow-up question.

How do you think jim's game compares to the game where you broke both legs and still managed to finish the crosshop yeah i mean i'm glad you brought that up and i cover this in there's a whole chapter in my book uh on the crosshop uh incident and the way i was able to perfect that and two chapters in fact two chapters are there okay i haven't haven't read it all yet but the the part of it that i really love is the bit where i explain about that particular incident on that particular day and i mean it's to break both your legs and to continue to complete the crosshop is um i don't think there's probably any other player that's ever done that um with with the exception of

fred dickerson but i i i think that mine is he did it three times in fact yeah well i mean you know i mean after you've done it once i mean it once three it doesn't really matter does it it's doing it the ones that really counts and um as one of the only people then has has done that i i um i feel proud i feel proud on the day i was able to execute the way i wanted to in practice. And this is what comes when you practice with broken legs. You're able to get out there and perform with broken legs. And that's another advice, I think, for young players that I cover in the book. What happens in practice is what plays out on the field.

And it's that kind of unique situation you need to be prepared for. So you would sometimes just deliberately break your legs in practice so you'd be prepared for it to happen in the game oh yeah oh yeah yeah in fact i i did most of my training with at least one broken leg sometimes with two broken legs yeah i mean i found it an advantage in the end flexibility that kind of thing but not everyone is able to do that it's it sort of takes a tim hein to pull off that kind of commitment to the game you've got to be committed to the game. Well, you can see why the Tommy Bowl Tribune described you

as perhaps only 10 to 20 times in a generation player. Yeah, well, I mean, that's right. I mean, they'd know. As a follow-up to Geoff's earlier question, Sid67 also pointed out that in Tommy Bowl, the second M is silent, which not a lot of people realise. I've been told that too. Otherwise, of course, it would be Tommyball as opposed to Tommyball.

Yeah, yeah. So that silent M just slightly changes the pronunciation. Yeah, I tried to trademark it with three Ms, but it was not able to be done, no. You couldn't do that one? No. Apparently Fred Dickerson already had done that. Yeah, but once I realised that, I realised it was not a good idea.

Tadas from Lithuania says, Hi Tim, I play Tommyball as an amateur, usually one short 30-hour game over the weekend every other month. There's this guy and he's my Fred Dickerson. He always outplays me and brags how good he is at Tommyball for the rest of the month. I really want to become a better player and put him in his place, but I feel my day job is dragging me down. I work as a delivery guy and I'm not out of shape enough to compete with my friends who have desk jobs. I try to compensate for my fitness

by eating junk food, but as you know, being overweight is not enough to be good at Tommy Ball. What routine and lifestyle changes would you recommend? Yeah, that's a good question. And this is one of the great advantages of Tommyball is the longer you're out of the game, in some ways, the better at it you get. Certainly you get more match fit. And I mean, I'm more match fit now than I've ever been. I mean, I've only got one broken leg at the moment,

but I could go out and play tomorrow. Oh, careful. You'll start those comeback rumours again. Oh, well, those comeback... Yeah, well, I'm not entirely. You'll start those comeback rumours again. Oh, well, those comeback... Well, I'm not entirely... I can understand the comeback rumours. My fans want to see me come back, and I could come back,

and I've tried to come back. And, again, that's all covered in the book. But I... Sorry, what was the question again? I can't remember, to be honest. No. Well, yeah, let me take this opportunity to mention some other things that are in the book.

Hang on a second. Let's crack on with some questions first okay sure robert asks what is your opinion of the catchman interpretation of the live ball rules yeah i mean this was brought in after i finished playing i think if i'd been able to do that then i would have been even greater than i was than i am but my greatness stands as it was. I've heard rumours about the newer versions of the computer games, Tommy Ball computer games that are coming out through EA Sports. You have the choice. If you're choosing to play with the Tim Hine character,

then you're able to choose if you're going to go with or without some of the new rules and the new equipment. That'll allow the players to see how how great that i i was or could have been uh or indeed am if i make a comeback if and and who knows can a cleanup crew please report to road g immediately another question here about new rules this comes from Karen. How do you feel about the addition of trampolines? We know there's been a few accidents with the capes, but do you feel it's an exciting addition? The trampolines? No, no, no, I'm not. I mean, some of these players using trampolines, you know, they're just trying to avoid injuries. I don't think you should avoid injuries. I think injuries in Tommy Ball is an asset.

When it comes to the cape, wearing a cape on a trampoline is a wonderful thing. I was on the weekend doing some cape trampolining. I mean, you feel like Superman, don't you? You jump up and I can make kids out there, I'm Tim Hine, you know, with their cape on. That's fair enough. All across the country, kids are pretending to be Tim Hine with a cape on a trampoline. But in terms of the game itself, no, no, it's cheating ant from connecticut sent in several questions i'll try and keep it to just a couple in most sports the players cannot bet on their own games why is it a

tradition that players in tommy ball are encouraged to place bets on the game and those bets are printed in the match program well i mean you famously placed some outlandish bets on your games it that's that's true and in fact some of your broken legs weren't from training they were from some of those uh misplaced bets weren't they well this is where the the wonderful merger the beautiful marriage between gambling and sport i think reaches its zenith in in tommy ball some people say that that um that that sport is a blight on a country uh that people get into trouble with sport and that they should stick to gambling that gambling teaches your character and mathematical skills mathematical skills that's right another one from ant do you think it's unfair that most

junior tommy ball players that the rookies, are locked into five-season, 15-year rookie contracts when going pro. Do you think the exemption for players born in the month of August should be expanded to all Northern Hemisphere summer months? One of the important things that people don't understand about the rookie finance deal, and people say, you know, is the way in which it allows you to maximise payments to retired players. Now, some people say you've got a conflict of interest. As a retired player, I'm not sure what that means.

But I have to say, I think the important... If you're out there and you're young and you're fit and you're playing, you're enjoying Tommy Ball, you don't need to be paid for it. I mean, if you really love the game, it's the retired players, the back-ending of contracts that I think is really enabling the legacy of the game to go on and enabling me to continue to live and to continue to commentate and engage in things like this. So people want that. I mean, if they want Tim Hine to go away and not be paid for any more for playing, seeing I'm not playing, then, I mean, hey,

fine, you know, there won't be nights like tonight. But I think people need to think a little bit more clearly about the future of the game and how important it is back-ending those contracts into retirement to maximise payments to legends like myself. We must sustain the legends. Retired players are what Tommy Ball's all about. It is, it is. Well, they are now.

I mean, they weren't earlier when I was... But they are now, and I've come to appreciate that now. Your advocacy of payments to retired players has certainly increased over the years. People say I'm too political, but I've found it important to get involved in this. This is a justice issue. And I'm proud to be associated with, you know, retired players receiving back-ended fat contracts from money that otherwise would have gone to younger players. You've got to keep the money out of the grassroots. It's wasted.

It contaminates the grassroots. That's the danger. Money is a corrupting influence. It should be saved for later in your career when you're wise enough to know how to handle it. Well, that's right. That's right. Yeah. And where to place those bets. That's right. That's right. Chaz from Reno. I'm not sure this one will make it past the lawyers we'll have to find out in post-production but uh let's give it a go okay i'm intrigued i've always wanted to ask you about a memorable incident what did those yeah i'm getting a voice in my ear telling me

but it's all in the book by the book samuel Samuel asks, How was it to play Tommyball when the notorious Tortilla Throw was still allowed? I know that it's not allowed today, but I can't really grasp the idea of playing with that allowed. Did it affect the overall gameplay? And would you say that today's players never would have lasted minutes back in your days? I've only heard rumours about this. And now when I get the opportunity to ask the legend himself, I won't hesitate. Such an honour and privilege to have the opportunity of a lifetime to ask you this personally. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Gee, that's a good question, isn't it?

That's a well-worded question. I thought you'd like the phrasing. Oh, yeah. Yeah, legend of the game. Yeah, no, look, I... Yeah, I mean, chance of a lifetime. That's a... Jeez, that's a jeez that's a great question great question and uh do you want me to read it again yeah i i yeah just don't quite remember what it said kieran from north wales thank you so much for taking the time of your busy schedule to answer the questions of us tommy ball Being from North Wales, of course, Kieran is a fan of the Cymru catapults. He says, go cats. First, I'd like to ask you about last night's display in the European League. Due to the hot weather recently, the quality of play has, of course, been poor.

But I personally thought that Sam Jenkins' use of his water bottle to wet the floor beneath him was unfair and should have been stopped by the refs i wanted to ask your opinion on this bold move when artificial rain isn't an option as it's not in europe obviously should the players be allowed to use their water bottles to wet the ground beneath them i'd love to get an expert's opinion well you've if you want an expert's opinion you've come to the right place of course but uh look i think this is innovative i love this idea'd used it. I mean, we use beer in my day, obviously. But I think that's brilliant. No one's ever thought of that before. I mean, I've thought of it. I never did it. I never said it to anyone at the time. But I think this is innovative. I love to see this kind of, this is one of those situations where that tension between

the tradition of the game and the use of technology, or in this case, water bottles, is the weight needs to go towards. What about the increasing trend towards players using synthetic water rather than organic water? That's great as well. I think that's great. I use synthetic water at home. I encourage its use. I think normal water's overrated. Synthetic water in some ways is closer to the beer we used to use.

But no, I think this is fantastic. I strongly encourage it andrew from minneapolis whose favorite team is the norwegian non-binary black holes howdy tim i want to get your thoughts on the new rule which would require teams to restrain their mascots from entering the pitch during stoppage time i know i was personally disappointed with the 2014 ruling which allowed non-carnivorous mascots but now this is really a step too far we all remember the time you lured the Berkshire Bear to scare its own defenders leading to one of the most definitive tie-break victories in recent memory well this is one of those situations and I cover

this in the book as well where you've got to innovate you've got to use what's there and and I love to see people innovating the frididges are an innovation. The water bottles on the ground are innovation. And if you can use the mascots, then that's fantastic as well. And I think I was the first person in history to engage the mascots in the result of a game. Now, of course, it became widespreadly used and then it was banned. But I think it was an innovation. And you've got to innovate.

The way to be faithful to the spirit and tradition of Tommy Ball is to be continually innovating my statistics speak for themselves I mean I just wouldn't have been as successful as I was had I not innovated in some of these sure quote unquote spurious activities. Since retiring have you seen any innovation in the game of Tommyball that you didn't at least think of when you were playing? No, I mean, it's very, it's a bland game. Sometimes now I think, I think the players are out there and they play the game. They're not thinking of other things. I mean, I used to think, I'm a thinker and I'd be on the ground and I didn't look like I was thinking, but I was thinking. And I'd think of ideas and I'd be looking at the mascot and how can I engage, you know, how can I use that

just to get those 20%, you know, that extra bit out of the team and, of course, my own performance. Is it possible that you had so many innovations and so many creative ideas that you have basically took them all? And the problem for modern players is there's no creative ideas left because Tim Hine had them all first. That's true. I mean, I've heard that said before. It's a bit like with the...

It's in your book, actually. Well, that's right. I mean, I quote it in my book and others can read it in the book if they buy the book. It's a bit like the Beatles. You know, it's because they came first and they wrote so many songs. People say it's not fair for songwriters coming afterwards because there's no melodies left. They're all gone.

And, you know, Beethoven got a few and Mozart got a few. Taylor Swift has had a couple since. Taylor Swift, of course, has been a bit of a... She's just picking up the scraps. Well, that's right. It's what's left over after the Beatles and when it comes to innovative ideas in Tommyball, I'm the Beatles

and Mozart and Beethoven and Taylor Swift rolled into one. I've often been called the Taylor Swift of Tommyball and I think they're referring to all those artists in one when they say that. Do you think that does justice to your creativity? It's, well I think think i think it's very limiting of you just to compare yourself to that handful of musicians when you were almost you were beyond that well i think it's one of those when i say taylor swift i mean all uh many other artists

in there as well i mean you just assume the beatles and and i've mentioned them and mozart and and and beethoven but of course so many others are in there as well. I mean, you just assume the Beatles, and I've mentioned them, and Mozart and Beethoven. But of course, so many others are in there as well. I mean, Taylor Swift is short for the greatest in pop music. And so just saying Taylor Swift really is shorthand. But in there is so many more. And so it is when you say Tim Hine, you think all the innovative ideas possible in Tommy Ball. I mean, that's just shorthand. And beyond. Well, that's right. I mean, this is why the book is so interesting, because it's principles for life, not just for Tommyball. If you put Tommyball first, life takes care of itself. That's what your parents always told you.

That's right. That's right. Liam from Canberra. Hey, Tim, big fan of your work on the Tommyball court. What are your feelings on the rule change from three quarters to four fifths at the third penalty period? I'm not sure I understand the question. Can I just say, by the way, following that question, your interview, it was 10 years ago now, on 60 Minutes, where you told the interviewer about your problems with numeracy and the fact you couldn't count beyond five,

was so courageous and was such an inspiration to other people who couldn't count do you do you still hear back from people about that is it still inspiring and have you have you since tried to learn to count people i mean people always talk about these things as a limitation but numbers beyond five are just five again aren't they i mean really it's just why would you count to ten you're just counting to five twice and and and i i've i've always seen it as an advantage i mean every number can be constructed using one two three four and five in some way that's that's what i'm told and and so i'm i'm um proud honestly i'm proud i mean this is one of those things you can't have other things in your brain if you're going to fit in innovative ideas if you're a thinker if you're a thinker like me

a legend and a thinker then you can't have other things clogging your brain and and and i mean i pay someone to count for me now and that's i mean that's great i mean he's part of my staff proud part of my staff helpful part of the staff hitting up a great team of people who can count. But no, I still think it's that kind of thing that's given me an edge in life. Tim, this has been a great experience. We've really appreciated your insights. We'd also just quickly like to once again thank The Sofa Shop for supporting this evening.

Oh, yeah. Yeah, The Sofa Shop. Don't do anything until you see The Sofa Shop and supporting this evening. Oh, yeah. Yeah, the Sofa Shop. Don't do anything until you see the Sofa Shop and buy my book. Ladies and gentlemen, just one more time, can we have a big round of applause for our guest tonight, the second greatest player of the 1990s as voted on MySpace, Tim Hine. Thank you.

Thank you very much. You love your team. I'll be out the back. Sorry, can I have everyone's attention for a minute? I'll be out in the foyer signing copies of my book, My Lives. My Life in Tommyball. Sorry, can I have your attention? Sorry.

Sorry, My Lives and My Life in Tommyball commentating. Sorry, everyone can... They love it. They're rushing. They're rushing to the table. I'd better get out there. Ladies and gentlemen, with those of you exiting via VG,

please take extreme care. So all the questions in today's episode, plus some of the sound effects you heard in the audience they came from patreon supporters if you'd like to join them go to patreon.com slash unmade fm oh yeah go tim you don't have to get so involved if you're a patreon supporter tommy ball tommy ball but you backing us does help us make more episodes including hopefully Get so involved if you're a Patreon supporter. Tommy Ball. Tommy Ball. But you backing us does help us make more episodes, including, hopefully, more Tommy Ball episodes. We're really grateful. But we're also grateful to anyone who's just listening.

If you'd like to find out more about Tommy Ball, maybe even check out our Tommy Ball t-shirts, go to Tommy Ball, Tommy Ball, WeLoveTommyBall.fm. Go on, type it in it works tommy ball tommy ball we love tommy ball dot fm i'll also put a link like you know in the notes and stuff because you know that's a lot to remember oh what a champ go team you legend