The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby - Clayton from The Bachelor on Getting Blackmailed, Filing a Restraining Order & Losing $1.3M

Episode Date: February 7, 2024

Clayton Echard, from The Bachelor, joined Matt to share his experience with a pregnancy blackmail scandal and his pursuit of justice. This episode was sponsored by Caden Lane, Curology, SurfShark & BetterHelp. For 20% off your order, head to https://CadenLane.com/UNPLANNED and use code UNPLANNED. For a limited time get your first Curology skincare box for $5 when you go to https://Curology.com/UNPLANNED Get Surfshark VPN at https://SurfShark.deals/UNPLANNED. Enter promo code UNPLANNED for three extra months for free. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at https://BetterHelp.com/unplannedpodcast and get on your way to being your best self.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

She would send me these dating contracts basically saying, if you date me, I will not go public. We can figure this out behind closed doors. You get that picture of a pregnancy test. Yes. Do you believe it at first? Absolutely. Because you see a visual image and you think,

it must be true. Because why wouldn't it be? If she continues to double down and the court just says we're going to dismiss it all, I'm absolutely going to sue her for defamation. And I will win because I have so much evidence against her. This individual has tried to destroy me, every single part of me.

I need her to take accountability and admit that she lied so that I can be exonerated. Do you understand what you've done to my mental health? You've taken me down. I've had dark thoughts. I went down a dark freaking path. There have been points when I didn't want to continue living my life because of this woman. I sat down with Clayton Eckerd, the star of season 26 of The Bachelor. This past year, Clayton came under fire for allegedly impregnating women with twins. But according to Clayton, he isn't the father and the twins don't exist. He alleges that he was blackmailed and this whole thing was made up in an attempt to force him into a romantic relationship.

But the craziest part is he allegedly was not the first person that this has happened to. We talk about all this and so much more in today's episode. This episode contains discussion of topics that aren't for kids. And the unplanned podcast does not condone cyberbullying or doxing of any kind. Dude, thank you so much for being here. Man, I'm excited. I love being in these environments and we're going to have some great conversations that I can tell just based off of how much we just had. That was off camera.

Yes. But it'll only get better from here. And I've got the baby monitor with me, my son's asleep upstairs. So hopefully he'll be asleep for about an hour and a half so we can have this conversation. Unfortunately, Abby just dashed out to the airport. She had a family emergency.

So just be thinking about Abby, that's why she's not here today. But very thankful for you being out here and welcome to the Unplanned Podcast. Yeah, man, this couldn't have worked out any better, right? Like, you reach out and next thing you know, I'm here. We don't live that far from each other, so. That's what's crazy is I realized you're also in Phoenix

and you're from Missouri, which I'm from Missouri, so crazy to have like mid-westerners out here. And we're rival high schools. Yes, we went to rival high schools. Rival high schools. You're right. And from what it was worth, Eureka used to beat the brakes off of Marquette. Dude, I'm sure Eureka was a good, yeah, Marquette, when I went to Marquette, well, I think our

football team started to get better the year that I was a senior. But we would probably never have been friends in high school though because I was a theater kid who played volleyball and you were a football player. Actually, though, I really actually, I would associate with the athletes, okay But I really wanted to associate with the inquisitive minds of the the creative individuals really but the people a pleaser in me became What I thought I had to be I've been a people please in my entire life And I would I created an image of what I thought would be impressive to others And it was just recently, about six months ago,

from all the experiences I've had, that I started to live a life for me, finally, and my circle has completely changed. Do you think this, like, people, pleaser, and you were, like, wanting to be considered cool did any of that play a role in you ending up on The Bachelor? Every bit of it. Really?

Every bit of it. Going back to seventh grade is when I would say it was the start of my mental health struggles. It would all stemmed from my younger brother. Two years younger than me. And he was the superstar athlete. And he was just Mr. Smooth. The girls loved him.

He was just awesome at everything he did. And at that time in my life, I felt like I had to work harder to just be able to compete with him. But I was two years older. So I thought I should have had the natural advantage over him to begin with. But instead I was at a deficit in my eyes.

And so back then, around seventh grade, your value lies in relationships and sports, at least it did for me. I started wearing all the cool basketball clothes as a seventh grader because my older brother, same thing. He was cool. He was in high school. He was invited to the parties.

So I started dressing like him, wearing his hand me down. It's because I also wanted to be accepted. So I know what that feels like. Right. And that's just natural at that stage of your life. You start to realize, who do I want to be? And you might not ask that question till a little bit later, but you start to just see the culture around you. Who's getting praise for doing what?

Athletes are so cool at that stage of your life. You want to be an athlete. And so you try to mold yourself into that. And so for me, my value, again, no one really cared. I got good grades, but no one cared if I had a 4.0 really. It was like, oh, are you first string on the football team or are you a backup? And do girls like you or do they not like you?

And so I felt that I wasn't good enough in those realms. I was a four string quarterback freshman year high school. When I was on JV as a junior, as a wide receiver, my brother was starting varsity as a freshman. So all my friends made fun of me. I said, you should quit football because your brother's two years younger than you starting varsity.

You're still in JV as a junior. Meanwhile, I got friends owned by all the girls that I wanted to date. They called me big brother. That was my nickname. And so meanwhile, my brother's dating all of these women that I wanted to date. And I didn't feel good enough. And so at that point, I didn't realize it,

but I went on a mission, just try to prove to people that I was good enough and I did have value. Well, I didn't feel like I was good enough with women and I didn't feel like I was good enough in sports. So I started to try to get to the highest peak at both of those points. The highest peak in the sports realm would have been the NFL, which I made it.

And the highest peak, I guess, with women to be finally seen as someone to go after, which just became a bachelor. I didn't have that dream to go be the bachelor, but I found myself that when I was asked to be the bachelor, no hesitation, I took it in a heartbeat. What was your career like in the NFL? Because I've-

Short-lived. Yeah, I've heard of all sorts of stories. You know, cause you hear NFL and you're like, whoa, the NFL. But then I've heard from friends of mine that have also done that journey that it's really hard. And you're like, you get accepted and then let go. And then you're like kind of on the team

but then you're kind of not and they like, they give you a sign on but then you really don't even get the money unless you stay with the team. So what did that look like for you? Absolutely. I signed a three year, 1.3 million dollar contract. Okay.

Zero percent of that money was guaranteed. Which so. Not a single dollar was guaranteed. So people saw, on Google, they saw it. Wow, it just became a millionaire. No, you get paid. Some guys get guarantees and signing bonuses. I didn't have a signing bonus.

So I was getting paid, I think, a stipend at the time, maybe of like 1500 a week. And that was in the pre-season before like the regular season was played. Then once you make it to regular season, league minimum was 450,000. So you would start to regular season, league minimum was 450,000, so you would start to make like 25,000, 30,000 every week. I knew a guy that he made the roster,

but he got cut a week later, but he made $30,000 in a week. Not a bad paycheck, but that's where it's, they say the acronym, NFL stands for not for long, and it's very true. That must be really hard on spouses, dude. Think about girlfriends or wives who are just trying to support their man pursuing their dream

and there's like no money coming in it sounds like because it's just all wishful thinking in a way. I mean, did you ever end up seeing any part of that money that you were told you were going to get? I was so close and that was the thing that frustrated me was, I mean, if I'd have made the team frustrated me was I mean if I'd have made that the team Okay, a week later. I'd have made $30,000 and if I'd have stayed another week now 60 the 90 then 120 Yeah, to be that close to be able to think like you could just reach out. I'm just right there

I'd saw the ever all the guys in the cars They drove the Lamborghinis the G wagons and I'm like you're right there. You just got to make it one more week Yeah, and I didn like, you're right there. You just gotta make it one more week. And I didn't get it. And, you know, when I got cut, it really was, it was tough. And this is where a lot of athletes struggle post sport with their identity. When I was signed by the Seahawks,

I mean, I was eating it up, man. I got signed by them and I went back after a camp. Well, I went to, originally I went to a tryout. They gave me all the gear and stuff. They didn't sign me, but like we may bring you back in. So they gave me some gear. I went back, you know, to my high school, you know, my hometown and walked into the school

and I had all the Seahawks gear on, I mean head to toe. And I just wanted to live in that moment. You know, I was a guy that didn't get a single scholarship offer coming out of high school. So I walked back through the halls and it was really for my ego is what I found out. I walked back through those halls to be like, I'm the guy that you all didn't think

could make it to this level, no scholarship offers. And here I am walking through the halls, you know, with Seahawks gear on. could make it to this level. No scholarship offers. And here I am walking through the halls with Seahawks gear on. And I presented this image of humbleness, but truthfully I was just feeding that ego to say, look, you all counted me out, now see what I did.

You should have never counted me out. I just was seeking external validation because I didn't have that internal validation. And I kept trying to fill that void with external validation. But when I got cut, it all vanished. The second I got cut, I went from having probably 70 messages, different people messaging me every day, keeping tabs on me.

The second I got cut, all of them gone. So you must have quickly seen who your true friends were then. Absolutely. People want to hitch on and be around the flashy object. Second I got cut all of them gone. So you must have quickly seen who your true friends were then absolutely You know people want to hitch on and be around the flashy object I got that same you know experience when I was the bachelor And and people would message me we need to go you know Head up Vegas and we need to do this and it really bothered me because I'm like I know you're only around me because I'm shining right now

You know I'm flashy But the second that my shine goes away, you're gone. And I just lived in this place of never having any confidence, no self-love. Because people come and go, but really at the end of the day, you're only going to have that self-love and feel that you're good enough. The second you choose to feel good enough. It's just a choice. Yeah.

All the things that I've acquired in my life, I thought if I get to the highest level in these realms, I will finally feel good enough. It's just a choice. All the things that I've acquired in my life, I thought if I get to the highest level in these realms, I will finally feel good enough. And I still didn't feel good enough after I acquired all of those things. And I'd look at other people that didn't become the Bachelor, didn't play in the NFL, stayed in their hometown their entire life

and they were happier than they could ever be. Isn't that so interesting? Like you see people all over the world. I'm like very convicted when I see people who are like, have nothing, you know, live in a dirt house and kick around a soccer ball made of trash. And then like they're happier than we are in the United States. It's like, maybe it's a mental thing.

Like maybe we need to have a- Oh, it's not maybe. We know. Yeah, it's like, okay, it's okay. It's like, we need to get our act together, you know? Because we have so much to be thankful for. And it's all, I think there's so much to be said about happiness being a mindset. It's a really though delicate, you know, subject to talk about.

Because a lot of individuals will hear that and say, oh, so I'm unhappy, you're telling me cause I'm choosing to be unhappy? And the answer to that is yes, you just may not realize that you are. But this is hard because a lot of individuals will go, well, I don't, why would I choose to be unhappy? And it's a really hard discussion to have

with individuals because the fact of the matter is, is you could wake up right tomorrow and say, you know what, I have so much to be grateful for because I could not have enabled body. My legs could not work. I could lose my eyesight You know I could not have these these basic necessities that I currently have and there's even people out there that don't have their sight That can't walk and they're grateful. They're happier than ever. What's what's funny dude is?

I always thought man if I ever got like a hundred thousand subs on YouTube It would that would be out that would make me happier. Okay, you get 100,000. Oh, if I got a million subs on YouTube, okay, that'll make me happy. And it's like, okay, maybe if I got 5 million, and it's like, okay, where does it end? Like, where does it end?

And I think what I've realized at this point in my life is sometimes I look back to being a newlywed and living in a 650 square foot apartment in Low Encome Housing in Southern Missouri and some of my favorite memories are from that time. It was just so exciting. Such a fun stage of life and no part of it had to do with followers or money

or any sort of accomplishment, but just being with the person that I love and a place that I love, with the people that I love and maybe that's it, Maybe that's the secret. I think it's the simplicity of having so little material possessions, but actually having so much. Because what happens is when you start getting the material possessions, you just start acquiring them and then you start looking up to the next level.

Part of why I love, so I don't know if you knew this, but we used to live in Hawaii. And part of the reason I love Hawaii was because everything there is so flipping expensive. People don't have very much. Shipping things there costs a ton of money. People don't have very big homes because it's an island, there's not a lot of space. Everybody wants to live there. And it makes you appreciate the non-physical things in life. It makes you appreciate the people, especially, well, yeah, people and the nature because

the nature out there is just beautiful, but yeah. I had a similar experience going to, well, Bali, Indonesia, where things aren't expensive. You can survive off of $5 a day from what I was told out there. But it really, when I went out there last year, it was life altering. The people were so genuinely happy.

At first I thought it was almost an act. I thought that they were acting as though they were happy just because we were tourists. I'm like, okay, this is a tourist area so they want people to continue to come here so they're going to give them preferential treatment. And at almost certain points, I thought they were mocking me with how happy they appeared.

Really? You thought they were literally making fun of you because they were that happy? Because they were just like, you know, really like everyone's waving and smiling and you're like, okay, I get it. Like no one's actually this happy. That's what I remember my brain thinking.

But then I started to notice that there's really no comparison culture there, not where at least I was at. I started to realize that I'm like, it seems so simple. Everything seems so simple here. And they talked about Bali time, everyone's on Bali time, where people may show up at eight o'clock for their job, but they may show up at nine.

That's a Hawaii thing too. But there's no rush. Everyone's just relaxed and there's a lot of artists out there, so everyone's just creating and enjoying their present, being present. And I think they have such few distractions there and that's why they can be so happy because they don't have this you know stress of I need to show up at this time I have to accomplish all of this it's like I'm here I'm on my time I'll get things done when I need to get them done I don't have to

impress anybody with what I have material-. I am just here living in the moment I feel like those individuals really were living in the moment more than I've ever seen it was a stark contrast to the United States Especially in big cities, especially in Scottsdale where I live where it's the exact opposite. It's materials Everywhere, you know, who's got the nicest car? Who's gonna VIP park at the front and step out of their brand new Bentley and get all the attention. And I saw this when I came out here. Everyone thought that I had all of this.

Everyone thought that, okay, it was on TV. Everyone thinks that, you know, reality TV stars have millions of dollars. Some do, some don't. Some couldn't be more broke from a standpoint of when it compares to other TV stars, but everyone thought that I had money when I came out here. And I do okay, but I definitely didn't have as much

as some people thought I had, and I definitely have more than what other people think I have, but I was getting treated in a way of, oh, yeah, come over here. I wanna buy a table, it's only $5,000. I'm like, $5,000 for a table? I'm like, what? But people would spend it because why?

Because if you spend it, you get attention from the bottle service girls. You get attention from all the girls that show up that night, and you feel like a king and everybody wants you, but really what they want is your money. That's crazy. So major start contrast from Bali.

Have you thought about moving out there? Yeah, absolutely. Seriously though, or just kind of? Well, yes, I absolutely did think about it, but I have a very loving family that's the most important part of my life. And I have an incredible support system of people that I could not leave,

because my support system is so incredibly powerful. They have carried me through the darkest of valleys. I could not do life without them. They're the only reason I'm here. And I don't say that to be in a dark way, but I know for a fact if I did not have those people in my life, that those deepest darkest moments would have taken me out. This portion of today's podcast is sponsored by Caden Lane. Now, as a parent, I love seeing my kids in new clothes. There's nothing cuter, especially when they're matching. I freaking love it when my boys match. But something that can be really annoying is when the clothes

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And so hearing about another similar situation where someone is really trying to like ruin someone else's life. I mean that's just that's just me that I've never personally experienced and I just can't imagine what that's like. So first off yeah I'm just so sorry. Well, I appreciate your condolences, but I want to say don't feel bad for me because it was, it is exactly what I believe was meant for me. And I think it was one of the best things that ever happened to me. It really, as I've digested it, it has forced growth because it was traumatic.

It's been traumatic. But trauma to me, it has a negative stigma attached to it. You hear trauma and you think this is, it's nothing but bad, but trauma creates uncomfortable environments and through discomfort growth comes. I have grown so much as a human being by being placed in that environment that I'm so grateful now for the person I've become

because I've learned a lot of valuable life lessons through this situation. And I think the single greatest lesson that I've learned through it, it's the power presence. Where exactly does this story start? Because from what I understand, it didn't just happen over a couple of days or a couple of weeks, like this is months long drawn out.

So where does this story begin? Well, I'd say the starting point was May 20th, 2023. Yeah, we're in 2024. All right. I always forget my years. So just, just a little, almost a year ago. Yeah. Yeah. It's been, it's been a long time coming, but that was, uh, that day was the day that I was, uh, intimate with this individual.

Okay. Um, and that then, you know, they had reached out to me a few weeks prior on LinkedIn, uh, to, uh, do real estate. And then things, we started to talk, I gave them my number, I was excited, I'd just gotten a real estate, and I was like, okay, I'm gonna get my first deal. Had no intention of being intimate,

obviously I didn't wanna cross that professional boundary. But one night, this individual was very flirty from the get-go, and I just let them be because I get that a lot. But I was like, you know, it's fine. As long as we can do business, we can do business. You can flirt. I'm fine.

Look, a little flirting is fine. I'm going to stay professional. But one night, I took an edible, and I wasn't in the right headspace, and this individual continued to be flirty and I engaged with it that night. And basically, I no longer kept the professional boundary. I let it drop. They sent a provocative photo. I told them to come over. And then that led into, you know, really nine months of an ongoing still, but nine months of just, you know, one of the toughest moments of my life where this individual has tried to destroy me,

every single part of me. I'm guessing she probably knew that you had been the bachelor and you probably were well aware of, okay, people are gonna know that I was a bachelor. That could probably help me, but I wanna be careful to safeguard against anybody out there that might try to take advantage of the situation that I'm the bachelor.

I now know that she targeted me, but I was naive at first and I thought oh, yeah I got a lead a weekend to be in a realtor because I'm the bachelor and that's people gonna come to me because now I have this mass exposure and all I need to do is to say that I'm a realtor and I'm already gonna get leads right out The gate yeah, because that's the natural advantage I have from my time on TV and I'm gonna reap the benefits of going on TV So that was being naive and ignorant. I thought, oh, of course this makes sense. And it didn't set off an alarm in my head

because I thought, yeah, it makes sense. And you crossed this boundary, but what exactly, like without getting into too much detail, cause we try to keep it like PG-13 on here. We don't want to go too graphic, but like what exactly happened with trying to use the most appropriate wording possible, I guess?

She performed oral twice. We did not engage in sexual intercourse, so there was no penetration involved. And so of course as then the story, as we dive deeper into it, this is like, well, how did this turn into a pregnancy scandal if you were never, if there was no penetration? And that's where I mean, we, I can get as graphic, as graphic as it needs to be. I think that she might have done something with after

performing oral, uh, when she went to the bathroom, I didn't see what she did with, you know, what happened when after the release. And so I didn't know if possibly she had then self-insiminated. Like, is that even possible though? Like apparently on Google, there's a small, small percentage that if you right away run to the bathroom and then you try to- Like immediately.

Small percentage. It's not a 0%. That was the issue was I, there was a small percentage, even a 0.1%. It wasn't 100% like no, the second that, you know, the release happens and if it doesn't go directly into that woman's opening down there, then if it doesn't, then it's done.

It's like there's a small percentage chance. All there needed to be was this little chance to create this seat of doubt. And were there more altercations like this? Were there more nights where you guys got together, pooled around a little bit? Was this a one one time isolated incident. One time we we we she performed all twice in that night and that was it. What does that do to your brain when you take an edible? Because I have like I don't know what exactly an edible how that affects your brain.

So what what exactly were you thinking feeling? How does that affect you? What was going through your brain that night? I realized at that point in my life that I was using weed to cope. I was really struggling at that stage of my life because I was still getting a lot of blowback online with just like I could never get away from it. The negative commentary, everything that I post, you can go on my page right now and there's always negative comments.

There's just people trying to tear me down. I didn't really know what I wanted to do with myself at that stage of my life. But a big thing, and I never shared this, but I had actually just seen my ex from the show. I went to this event, and it was the first time her and I, since we broke up, had been in the same environment.

Oh, Susie from The Bachelor? Yeah. And so we went to this event, and I was really excited to see her. in the same environments. Oh, so you're from the bachelor? Yeah, yeah. And so we went to this event and I was really excited to see her because we had a, it was a really hard breakup in the spotlight of, just because everyone, I knew that I was gonna get judgment,

you know, throwing upon me. And when we broke up, everyone said, yeah, makes sense because he's a terrible person. She finally realized that he sucks. And I knew I was gonna get all those blowback and I did. And I also got some support, but you know. And that was all public, like people publicly followed the breakup and everything.

Oh, everything, everything I do is, there's no, there's no, you know, hiding anything I do. Was that on The Bachelor? Like did that make it into the episode? No, we broke up a year, we broke up a year later after the show ended. Okay. And so we ended up seeing each other that weekend, this in California at this mental

health event. Ultimately, we had a couple conversations of should we try? Should we try to see if this could work? But we ultimately both agreed that this is not the right timing and I don't think we're meant for each other. But maybe down the road it could work, but now now doesn't seem like we're right for each other Was the was the breakup mutual or was that a one-sided thing? It's pretty mutual. Yeah, and so all this happens Then we fast-forward all the way to May of 2022

You're got your real estate license you messed around with this this woman that you just met you'd taken it edible and then A couple days later. She hits you with the message, I'm pregnant. Yeah, 11 days later. 11, 11 days later, you know the exact days. Oh yeah, I mean, I don't know all the timelines because there was so much that she was hitting me with at one time, her tactic is to overwhelm. So you get that picture of a pregnancy test.

Yes. Do you believe it at first? Absolutely, because you see a visual image and you think, oh my gosh. It must be true. Yeah. Because why wouldn't it be? And who do you tell?

Do you keep it to yourself? Oh man, who did... Who was the first person you called? I don't know. I'm trying to think of who was the first person I called. I mean, she sends it to me and I told my family, my parents and my brothers. And what the heck did they say? Oh well, they were just taking it back.

And, but truthfully though, they go, no, there's no way. There's no way. And they said, she's gotta be faking it. And I'm like, you think? Like, but it's a positive pregnancy test. Like, it's gotta be real. I mean, I didn't, you know, have intercourse, but like, I guess, like she's claiming that

when we were like, like grinding on each other after the first time that she performed it, that there was leftover fluid and that's what caused her to get pregnant. I said, they're like, no, there's no way. I said, but it must be a way because the test. What did your mom say? I think my family was very supportive, but of course disappointed because they said, Clayton, you gotta be smarter. Was there anything else?

I mean, did they bring up, hey, what about this duty of yours to maintain this professionalism with the real estate thing? Did they bring that up, or were they just more so focused on the fact that you potentially could become a father? Yeah, what I love about my support system is like, they know when I need to hear something

when I don't. They knew in that moment that I knew that I shouldn't have crossed that professional boundary. So they didn't need a harp on it. They made their statements, Clayton, you know, you shouldn't have done that. But you know what? We love you, we care about you, and ultimately we're here for you. And I had a really great conversation with my dad early on where I said, Dad, we talk on the phone like once a week for an hour a day, our whole family, which is great. I told him one day, I said, I can't focus. I can't do anything. I'm staring up at the ceiling in my bed for hours a day because I'm just so fearful of the future. I'm not

ready to have a child with this woman. I don't know her at all. I don't know what the public's gonna think. I just can't, I'm so scared. I can't do anything other than the bare minimum survive, make sure I get a paycheck coming in, but I can't do anything beyond that. I got no energy.

All my energy is being expended, just thinking about the future. Were there any friends that were coming over and giving you advice on what to do with this news of you getting a girl pregnant? Yeah, I mean everybody gave me a listening ear but very few people, again I have a very sound support group but I surround myself with people that are very similar in that they won't speak on something they don't have experience with.

I won't do that either. That's why I just surround myself with like-minded individuals. So they were more focused on just allowing me to vent to them and just feel seen and heard. And they would be very cautious though about giving advice unless asked for it. And they'd say very cautious though about giving advice unless I asked

for it. And they'd say, well, I never went through this. But my dad told me was, Clayton, if you got her pregnant, and this was about three weeks in at this point, he said, if you got her pregnant, you got eight and a half months until that individual delivers a baby. If they do, there could be pregnancy complications, miscarriages happen, she could decide to not have the children or child at that point. And so what you need to do, Clayton, is just be you and live in this moment and just control what you can. Because you can't control all that other stuff. There's so many things that can happen in half eight and a half months. How many days in did you have her come over

and take a pregnancy test with you there? Because didn't you, I believe I heard somewhere that, yeah, you had her over and she took a test and that it actually came up as positive. And so, how many days in did that happen? Ballpark probably, I think it was about three weeks into her, like her originally telling me that she was pregnant and pregnant.

And were you like 50-50 at this point on if she was making this up or if it was just, was this freak accident and it actually happened? Like where was your head there? Yeah, at that point I was probably 50-50. Now, three and a half weeks in, at that point I was interacting with her. I knew I wasn't dealing with what I would say as a typical individual. I knew I was dealing with something different. And this was somebody that I had never interacted with. And so I was like, you know what, I gotta be very with. And so I was like, you know what?

I gotta be very cautious. I don't, this person is capable of more than I'm realizing, but I don't know how far their capability will expand too. So I was skeptical. And so I thought, okay, well, you know, power Photoshop, you can really fake anything. So all I've seen is, you know, images, but you know, the the doctors notes or whatever,

she could have just superimposed her name on top of a doctor's note. And so, yeah, I had a little bit of skepticism and I thought, well, I have to see it with my own eyes. That's the only way that I, otherwise I'm not going to believe it. And so, yeah, I had her come over. And this whole time she was saying, you know, I want to work this out between us. You know, I'm scared. I don't want to have an abortion, but I would maybe consider it. But I only will have it if you date me exclusively. So she put the stipulation of that I had to date her. And you guys had never even really been on a date.

This was just a one-time thing, one-time hangout. Yes. And did any part of you want to date her at this point? No, I never wanted to been on a date. This was just a one-time thing, one-time hangout. Yes. And did any part of you want to date her at this point? No, I never wanted to date her at all. And this is where I told her the next day after we had hooked up. Next day we had scheduled to show her some homes. To show her some homes the next day.

And then I said, hey, I need to talk to you. I was like, can we go talk in my car? And so I pulled her to my car and I said, hey, I wanna apologize. She was like, for what? I said, for last night. I said, I way overstepped the professional boundary. I said, and she goes, no, no, no, no, I said, no, no. I go, she goes, you don't have to apologize.

I said, no, I need to, and this is why. I'm normally pretty good about explaining my intentions to people. And I usually will tell them up front, whether or not this is something serious or whether or not I just wanna have fun. I said, and I didn't give you that last night. I didn't tell you my intentions.

I was under the influence. I said, that's no excuse, but I was thinking, with a different head, and all that my mind cared about in that moment was instant gratification. And that was a different head. And all that my mind cared about in that moment was instant gratification. And that was a sexual release. And that's what I was looking for that night. This portion of today's podcast is sponsored by Curology. And Curology makes personalized prescription skincare products. Now, I actually started using Curology in college because I was very insecure about my skin. My acne was not looking good and it was really

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They told me to basically get rid of all the skincare stuff I was using before. I was using a face wash from the dollar store and they're like, yeah, throw that crap away and they sent me a face wash that I should use instead. And it's just so, so helpful to have someone that you can message and can give you input on how to take good care of your skin. For a limited time, you can get your first Cureology skincare box for just $5 when you go Go to cureology.com slash unplanned for this free offer. That's cureology, C-U-R-O-L-O-G-Y dot com slash unplanned. Trial is 30 days applied only to your first box subject to consultation, new subscribers only.

Now, back to the episode. When do you get to the point of like taking paternity tests and this whole thing of like, I'm not the father because she's saying you're the father and you're saying, no, these kids don't exist. Like, how do you get there? And what's the timeline from the actual day that happened in May to this whole paternity test thing? Yeah. So I asked for a paternity test early on, but of course, since she responded with, well, you can't do that until eight weeks at the earliest. So in the interim, I said, okay, well, I want to do that until eight weeks at the earliest. So in the interim, I said, okay,

well, I want to see an ultrasound. Okay. She never provided one. And then I got one from, one day from one of her lawyers and I got that, but then I just didn't trust it. And I said, okay, I see that there's this facility, the name of it on there, can I, can you give me their contact info so I can talk to them?"

She said something like, well, it's a hippo violation. I said, yeah, but you can sign off. Like I worked in the medical field, so you can sign off and give me access to these doctors just so I can ask questions. Of course, she got defensive. She said, why don't you believe me? So anyway, she wouldn't give me any, like I was trying to get all the doctor's notes or just talk to them just for confirmation.

And then I said, okay, well then fine, if you're not going to give me any evidence, then I'm just going to wait for the paternity test. So I kept, so when that time came when we could take it, she then said, you know, oh, I'm pregnant with twins, and I've called around and we can't do a prenatal paternity test on twins. Facilities won't do it. Thankfully, because I'm stubborn, but I also just believe that there's something for everything. I said, okay, well, there's

got to be some facility. So I called and called and called and finally I found one. They're like, yeah, we'll do it. So I brought it to her and she was like, oh, great, I'll take it right away. I acted like she was happy to take it. But then she went back to, well, I'll only take it if you date me. So she always had the dating stipulation attached to everything and so I could never get beyond that I couldn't get her to take any action because it always would be like well do this if you date me It's like no, I will not date you. So she was all excited. Yeah, I'll take the perine test And then she takes it and what happens? Well, she doesn't take it at first and then She at that point was like I'm gonna go public if you don't just I don't have to take it

So any test I can just wait and tell the due date. I don't have to take the paternity test. I can just wait until the due date. I don't need to do it. You're the one who needs the validation. And then she went public. And then when she went public, she was claiming online. She went to Reddit because that was the way where she could get her platform, the biggest right off the bat or out the gate. So she posted anonymously and she said, I'm the anonymous woman.

That I got pregnant by Clayton's twins or by Clayton with twins. And so and then she said, yeah, I want to do I got pregnant by Clayton's twins, or by Clayton with twins. And then she said, yeah, I wanna do a paternity test, but he won't take it, he's refusing. So she spun the narrative on me. Really? So I then was like, no, no, no. I've been asking since day one, so then I found this Ravjyn facility

that would do the test on twins, and I came out and made it public, because I knew at this point, I could control the narrative with my large audience. So I was like, okay, now I'm going to come out and show people, hey, I booked it. Here's a screenshot of me paying for it. And I have mine scheduled for this day. So now she has to schedule hers. So I started using my social media to hold her accountable by creating a paper trail. And that's what I did. So she didn't show up the first time. And so I went straight to social media. I said, she didn't show up. first time. And so I went straight to social media.

I said, she didn't show up, so you're all aware. So now I was able to control it where everyone's like, she might be faking it. And so she's like, no, I was sick. And so she's going on her form on Reddit. I'm posting directly to Instagram. And then finally she takes it. And I will say when she took it, I was like taking it back.

Cause I was like, what, she's not pregnant. Why would you take it? So I was taking, I was like, what if she's not pregnant? Why would you take it? So I was, I was taken aback. Um, and, but it came back then two weeks or a weeks later, little to no field DNA. So little to no field DNA. I thought, well, there you go. I just, and at that point I knew I was like,

she's not pregnant at all because that's why she's getting little to no field DNA. Well, she then fights it and says, no, I, it's just, it was, it was an issue with transport. You know, the Arizona heat, you know, caused this, the, this, the sample to be spoiled. Well, that wasn't true. It was 75 degrees that day. But that was, that was what she was claiming. She's like, I have to take it again. Well, I wasn't willing to wait any longer. So, because I knew I was like, she's going to keep dragging this out. It's going to come a little to no field in a second time and a third time and however many have a long.

So I decided to go out on my social media and basically like I made, I decided to be a little boisterous, but I wanted to come out with confidence so that people wouldn't question whether or not I believed it. So I came out overconfident. Again, I had my Mari moment, not proud of it,

but I felt like I had to do it. So I had- What is that by the way, Mari moment? Mari, like Mari, Pope of it, I don't know moment, not proud of it, but I felt like I had to do it. So I had- What is that by the way, Mari moment? Mari, like Mari, I don't know what his last name is, but like, you are not the father, that show? Oh, I've heard of that show. You are not the father, yeah, yeah. So his name was Mari, and so I had that moment

where I came out this video and I was like, guess what, good news, test came back, little to no field DNA, let's go. And were you like, I am not the father? What did you say? Yeah, basically, I was very particular to make sure I wasn't minsing words and I said exactly what I was told all over the phone.

It came back as little to no field DNA. I'd made sure not to say she's not pregnant, but I was like, I'm going to say exactly what's said to me because I know she's gonna try to sue me for whatever. So, but you can't sue me for the facts. You can only sue me if I say something that's incorrect or false, which I have not said anything that's ever, nothing, everything I've said is factual.

So I was like, I have to be very particular. And so I said, little to no feel, the DNA is what the test came back, which is true. And, you know, some people, a lot of people didn't like the way I approached it. They're like, this is insensitive, but they didn't have the full story. They're like, oh, this is insensitive.

There's gonna be a kid that's gonna be born one day and see how happy this guy was to not be his father. But I was like, no, you all, again, I was like, there's new audiences coming in at all times. I was like, there are no kids. You all don't understand that. And I get it. Were you telling people that?

Like were people aware of the fact that there's a stipulation that you had to date her for all this to go away? Were you actually like telling her lawyer that or were you telling social media that? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I had conversations date her for all this to go away? Were you actually telling her lawyer that, or were you telling social media that? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I had conversations with her lawyers because she's had so many at this point that I've just dropped her and new ones picked her up,

dropped, and so they were like, you need to comply and do the paternity test. I said, yeah, absolutely. I said, you need to make sure that your client complies because it's not me, it's her that's not gonna do it. And they're like, well, if you don't do it, you're gonna be in trouble. I said, okay, I'll do it.

I'm not the problem here. Your client is. So like, and I was getting a little fired up at these lawyers, because I just was like, again, I'm not the one that's guilty here. So I'm like, yeah, whatever we need to do to get this solved. Was this before or after she sent you an ultrasound? This was right after.

Right after, okay. And did you know when you first saw that ultrasound that it was faked? Yeah, I mean, I've, listen, now I've gotten really, like I've seen so many ultrasounds at this point. I was Google image searching, I was reverse image searching, but I couldn't find that image, but. And they're hard to read.

Like it's not easy to read that or to understand what's going on unless you're actually in the medical field knowing what everything is. But there were some things that started to stick out as this looks like Photoshop. So a lot of the images she would send over to me were pixelated. Okay.

And pixelation is a sign of Photoshopping. So I'm a nerd in that aspect, where like I get really into technology and all that. So I kind of knew when she sent the photos over, I already had, I was like, you know what? That looks as though someone forged this document, especially with you not allowing me to talk to the doctors. I can see the pixelation where the normal image was and then where you superimpose something

over top. But there were things like I was Googling where they put the estimate of the date of conception, gestational age. And so she put the exact date that we hooked up, which like, that's not, apparently they can get it within like a few, they can, they put it on the ultrasound as like two months, four days gestational age, but they don't do like the exact date apparently. So do like the exact date, apparently. So she had the exact date. You're right though, cause I thought

from when we've had our kids, I thought, oh, the day that you like had sex would be the date of the conception. No, it's all to do with like the mis-period and the woman's cycle. So it's really from the last period that they had is like the official conception date. So that's super interesting that on that ultrasound,

the date was the day that you guys were together, not Hermes period. Correct. So these things started to add up and I was just like, again, more and more things that I was picking up on. She ended up putting out a video of an ultrasound video and she was releasing it on Dropbox to Reddit.

She had a pregnancy file that she released and a Dropbox. To Reddit. And she was just like, go look at these files. And she had a picture of her pregnant stomach, which I think she photoshopped. Well, I think she at one point, I think she photoshopped a few of them. I was looking at bloating online and like, you can really make your stomach look pregnant if you are eating things that are bloating, you know, that cause bloating, as I found. But then I think she was doing that. I think she was forcing her body to bloat.

But she put up that photo, and then she put up this video. Does she put up any photos recently? Because now we're at basically nine months, right? Since May. So has she posted anything recently to try to show a belly of any sort? No, so as of recently where we're currently at she is no longer pregnant. That was that was from her lawyer Oh that put it in court set to my lawyer and as of three days ago. She said that

She had a miscarriage So we are asking for fetal death certificates. We know that she won't have any. We also know that she never was pregnant. But we're basically for the court, we're saying, well, give us what happened to them. You know, if you had a miscarriage, you would have to produce fetal death certificates. So we want them. Where are the certificates? What happened to them? Do these kids, you know, fly up into the sky? Did they, you know, did you hand them over to somebody? What happened to them? Where did they go? You can't just pass them.

It's too far along. So we're looking for evidence. And so where we're currently at is we have a evidentiary hearing scheduled for, I want to say, February 27th. And that's where, so the court dismissed the parenting plan that she originally filed against me. She filed a parenting plan like six months ago on me,

opened it in family court. I had to go in to the court to file a response. Was that the most confusing thing for the judge to hear you coming in? Here's this guy that used to be the bachelor and he's claiming that there are no kids, yet this woman is trying to. It was almost humorous, not funny, but like in a way I can look back at it and I'll you at least smile about it because I had a file response to her parenting plan basically stating like who's gonna have the kids for what

holidays and who's and then and you know who's paying this money like what percentage of time are they are we gonna have these children and so I go in and I had to respond you have to respond someone follow something you have to respond to it otherwise if you don't don't, then the court will just issue a default judgment. So I had to respond because I talked to lawyers and they said, if you don't respond, they're gonna assume that you actually have children

and then they're going to basically enforce this. So I had to go respond and I show up in court and the judge is like, so what's your response? I said, I wanna basically put on record that this is all completely fabricated. There are no children. And the judge looked at me and goes, excuse me? And I said, there are no children.

What do you mean? I said, there are no living children. I said, not matter of fact, there are no children, period. Not even inside of her still. Like she's claiming she's pregnant, but there's no children. He said, well then why do you have a parenting plan? I said, I don't know. I don't know what to tell you. I said, she just filed it against me. I said, there's no proof

of any children whatsoever. And he looked at me sideways and he was just like, okay, well, alright. And like took down what I said. And then basically like that court case was just, it was set there for a bit, then she filed for an early resolution conference where she was trying to get me to meet up with her. Well, at that point I was like, no, you're dangerous. If I meet up with you, you're gonna claim that I raped you or you're gonna claim I beat you, which she did with one of the previous guys.

She claimed that she was beaten by him. So, and there were other guys there. You're not the only person that's happened to. I'm the third guy she's brought into court. I'm not good friends with the last guy from two years ago. Really? Yeah, we're good friends now. I mean, I was texting him today.

We text all the time. Is he also in Arizona? Yes, he's in Phoenix. He actually just had a child recently. So really happy for him, but I went to his baby shower and all that. And, you know, he's doing great, but he fought her in the court system for like three years. It's sad. I mean, she really took him through it all and just wasted his time and money and has meant and destroyed his mental health at points and

So, you know, she yeah, I mean, that's where She then tried to get me to meet up with her, but I knew I was like this is dangerous And at one point she tried like she's she's just she's just, she, she's, there's no extent that she won't go to. She, and so I knew I couldn't meet up with her, but then after the resolution, we did virtual and then it just, that, that case fell flat. Meanwhile, I went to get a restraining order in the civil court, got mine. She then files one in response and retaliation gets, gets one against me, which it's very easy to get instead of, instead of Arizona.

But then we got that and then I was like, wait, this family court case is open. I'm gonna use this court case that she opened against me and now I'm gonna use it against her by submitting evidence for proof of non-paternity. Because I know that if I don't get proof, then she will down the road come out and claim that she was pregnant by the bachelor and she had a miscarriage due to all the stress from the public and

cyber bullying. So I know that that's what she's gonna do. So I have to get a definitive finding of non-paternity to say I was never the father you made this entire thing up and so if she ever tries in the future I can point to the court case and say no. We had a finding that none of this was ever true. And that's where you're at right now. That's where we're currently at. Okay. Yeah.

And what is the timeline look like for a court case like that? Yeah. So the 27th of February will be when we go into the court and we present our evidence, mine versus hers. So this could all be solved if she would just own up to it, but she won't. And again, I said this on a previous podcast and I'll say it again. You know, I know she's going to listen to this because she listens to everything I put out. I don't want her to be cyber bullied. I don't want her to, you know, I don't want

people to take her down. So, also anyone that listens to this, please don't go after this individual and attack her. I'm not an advocate for that. Okay. I am an advocate for mental health, but I'm also an advocate for accountability and justice. And at this point, she has caused so much damage to my mental health. She's caused damage to my, you know, pocketbook. She has tried to just take everything from me. This portion of today's episode is brought to you by Surfshark VPN. Now I don't know about you guys, but my privacy is very important to me. And that's why I like VPNs,

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unplanned for three extra months for free. Yeah, you heard me right. Three extra months for free. That's surfshark.deals.onplanned. Now, back to the episode. She needs to face justice. And if she were to just come out and say, I made this whole thing up, I was in a bad spot mentally, I need help, and I'm going to go seek say, I made this whole thing up, I was in a bad spot mentally, I need help and I'm gonna go seek help. I would not pursue her legally. I would let it go. But she needs to take accountability.

She needs to clear my name. Because if she's not going to, I will clear my name. And that's where I'm at right now, is with this court, with them scheduling as evidentiary hearing, it's a matter of time. It's, if they wanted to dismiss the case, they would have dismissed it. So she has no choice but to either accept accountability

or I'm going to get findings to prove that she made the whole thing up and she can just keep lying, but she's gonna face the repercussions. I gave her an out early on. She, I don't, I never, I never mentioned this. There's so many facts to this, this whole story. I wrote up a contract,

because she would send me these dating contracts basically saying, if you date me, I will not go public. And then we can go ahead and just, I will close the court case and we can figure this out behind closed doors. So she created a dating contract. Was there an NDA or some sort? Yes, she created an NDA, sent it over to me.

And so I was like, no, I'm not doing that. I'm not signing that. A little NDA to say, hey. Yes, she created legal documents. So what I did, I go, okay, I'll play your game. So I sent back to her a draft that I created. And I said, if you right now admit that you've made this entire thing

up, I signed already on this document. As you can see, if you sign it stating you were never pregnant with my children, I will let this go and I will never ever talk about it ever again. I won't pursue you legally. I will let this go and act as though it never happened. I gave her that out about two, three months ago. Does that still stand? Like, will you allow her to sign that even today? No, it's too late now. Oh, it's too late.

She went public and so now I need her to take accountability and admit that she lied so that I can be exonerated. So before it came out, I gave her an out. And I said, and then she said, absolutely no, I'm not signing that, because I am pregnant with your children. And I followed up, I said, this is the last time I'm gonna offer this to you.

You have an out right now. Like you should take this, because I'm not gonna offer it anymore. She wouldn't do it. And I know now, I'm like, I bet you really wish you would sign that. Because I gave her an out, I wanted to move on from it. I really did not want to make this about me.

I didn't want to use it for sympathy. I didn't want to take it and then go do a mental health talk and be like, I was in this situation with this person. Like I wanted to just drop it. What sucks about this whole situation too, and I've heard you say this on other podcasts as well, but it's almost like this one individual almost is hurting other individuals that actually have a legitimate case of them getting pregnant

and them trying to hold the man accountable, that got them pregnant, and it's just so sad that this is happening to you and that it's almost damaging, you know, damaging what can happen to women who are in legitimate circumstances where they do get pregnant. It's so sad to see. There's a delicate matter because right now I think the reason why this story isn't getting as much attention as what it could be is because as I was told by a state representative, I spoke with them and said, I just want this individual to be held accountable.

How likely do you think that the court will pursue them and impose charges upon them and possibly jail time? And this individual said, and highly unlikely, because this would potentially then deter future actual victims from coming forward and sharing their story, because the fear would be if the court doesn't believe me, they'll prosecute me. And so because of that, I don't know if the court's going to impose sanctions upon this individual because they don't want to deter actual victims. And that's challenging because I do believe that we should believe women, but I also believe that we should believe people. And just wait for the truth to come out. Wait for all the facts to come out

before you make a judgment. But this is a very sensitive subject matter because yes, there are people that have listened to the story and some of the extremists are saying, this is why we shouldn't believe women. I don't believe that. I don't condone that thought process. I'm like, no, this is a very rare case.

I will say this, since this has happened to me, I've had many people come forward and tell me that this has happened to them or they know somebody. Well, I'm sure it's super embarrassing. If this happens to you, I'm sure you just wanna run away and never talk about it and just be done with it.

You know, you probably don't wanna make it, like you, you're already a public person, you're a public figure, so you have to in a way clear your name and clear your character with the situation. But I can just think about a normal person that's not on social media, not in the media at all. They probably just want to be done with it. They probably don't want to pursue legal action.

They probably just want to forget that it ever happened and not let it take any more of their life away from them. Yeah, absolutely. Because I don't want, for me, I just want to move on. Yeah, I didn't want to experience any of this. Now, I've found the silver lining in the soul situation. So again, the lessons that I've learned have made me a better human being.

And I can now relate to more people and I can practice patience and I can be more present. And I can just allow life to go and stop trying to control so much and just focus on what I can be more present and I can just allow life to go and stop trying to control so much and just focus on what I can control. So I've gotten what I need to out of this essentially. At this point, I'm like, please just like stop. Please do what's right and just accept.

It's okay, we all make mistakes and I can forgive her and I will forgive her eventually. I'm ready to because you know what? At the end of the day, uh, holding harboring resentment only hurts me. It doesn't hurt her. Who are these other individuals that were also targeted and went through the same, a similar situation to you. You said one, um, also is in Arizona.

Um, is, is the, is the other person in a different state of some sort? Like were they, was it very similar situations? Were they very different? I mean, I don't know what you're able to share, but I'm so curious who these other people are. It's all out there. And again, it's all publicly accessible. So everything I've said is,

there's nothing that I'm speculating on. And what I have said is my opinion is my opinion. So again, I have a right to an opinion, but the previous guy, she said that she was pregnant with his twins. So almost very, very eerily similar. Not the exact, because I can't say exact, because there's minor differences, but it's very eerily similar. He got an ultrasound from her scent, but then he reversed Google image, searched it, and found that it was, found it from a blog from like three years prior.

And was the same ultrasound that she sent you, the same one? Oh, so she used different ultrasounds every time. Yeah, and this is public accessible. I found the court docs and I looked them up, but he caught her and basically brought it to court and said, listen, we found this online. And then she claimed that he cyber hacked

her email, sent that image to himself and then like made it look like she sent it to him and really it was him. That's what she claimed, that he cyber hacked her. And he was like, why would I send this to myself? I don't believe that you're pregnant. So why would I go through all that effort to do that? So she claimed he cyber hacked her. And did these individuals actually sleep with her or was it a similar situation?

I believe so. I mean, again, I believe that they did. Yes. On the court docs, I think it did say that they were, but I, I don't know exactly. I didn't ask for the intimate details with each of these individuals. I think the first guy was in San Francisco. And I want to say that they were they were like casually dating I believe but again I that's their story to tell I I don't really know the exact intimate details okay yeah so and the second guy was it also twins same thing got an ultrasound what what are the similarities and differences I guess in all

these court cases yeah so the first guy my understanding his court docs were closed to the public so It's I haven't been able to get those court documents. Okay. All I know is that he yeah She claimed she was pregnant and then I think she ended up going to Planned Parenthood and getting an abortion taking the pills. Okay, and then I don't know how it was settled beyond that So I really don't want to speak on something I'm not really familiar with. The second guy, she claims she was pregnant with twins. And then they were back and forth in court up until just recently.

They just finished the court case two years later. And she claimed abortion coercion, where she said, she suffered from the fact that he forced her to have an abortion, uh, based off of comments that he said, and then she took these pills and she thought they might've worked. It didn't work, but then like it ultimately did, you know, kill these fetuses. And so, um, you know, that, but then she started, she was taken through court to try to, you know, I guess when, uh, you know,

like money from it basically take money from him. But really it's not about the money for her. It's just about like, it's about power, I believe. So she just wanted to basically like stay in his life so that he couldn't, you know, move beyond it. And that's the frustrating part is again, I have a weird soft spot in a way for her because I really actually believe that the individuals that are the issue is her parents Because I think they're the ones that have allowed this behavior. They're very aware of it I spoke with her mother on the phone. I was okay I actually wanted to ask about that because I heard you say I believe it was on

Nick viles podcast that you spoke with her mom. Yes, and immediately I was like was it actually her mom It was absolutely her mom. Oh, it was absolutely her mom No, you're sure that it wasn that it wasn't her faking a voice or it wasn't a friend in on it? No. So I would build with everything in my heart, I believe it, for a few reasons. One, I took the phone number and I put it in Google

and found the record online that it was her mother. I also then watched a podcast of her and her mother speaking so I could hear what her mom's voice sounded like. Same voice. Same voice as what was on the phone. Exact same voice. And I know that she didn't know how to do a voice, encoder or whatever to alter her voice.

I also, when I was on the phone, her mother was speaking differently, different tonality, different pace. A lot of times with this individual, she would send emails from people that claim to be other people, but it had the same speech pattern, same, uh, like language was used. And so I knew this is not actually this person. This is her. Um, but yes, I, without a shadow of doubt, that was her mother on the phone

that I spoke to. Um, so her mother allows her, you know, enables like allows her to do this. And is she getting money from her parents to help her fund these lawyers? Because I mean, that's expensive. Like, lawyers are very expensive. Her family's well off. And so, yeah, they, my understanding is that she lives

in her parents' casita. And she really doesn't, I mean, she claims she's a podcast host, but she doesn't put out two, you know, she doesn't put out any podcasts in like two years. And then she does doesn't, I mean, she claims she's a podcast host, but she doesn't put out any podcast in like two years. And then she does horse sales, but I don't think she sells. I think her parents do. So I don't think she does anything. This portion of today's episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Now, a common misconception about relationships is that they have to be easy to be right. And that is just completely false.

When I talk to people that are like, yeah, my spouse and I never argue, you know, we never get into any sort of confrontation. I'm like, either you're a unicorn or you're lying. And most likely I think you're just lying to me. So relationships take work and that's why I'm a big proponent of therapy. Therapy is so important and it's really great when it comes to your relationships because you have to put in the work and your relationship to make sure that it stays strong. It's really great when it comes to your relationships because you have to put in the work and your relationship to make sure that it stays strong. It's like a muscle. You know, you can't expect to be a strong person physically if you're not working out your muscles and relationships are the same exact way.

Therapy can be a place to work through challenges you face in all of your relationships, whether with friends, work, or your significant other or anyone. I think one of my proudest relationships is my relationship with my wife because we have been together for seven and a half years now. Holy crap, we've had two children. We now have a five month old and an 18 month old and our relationship definitely takes work. If you're thinking of starting therapy, give BetterHelp a try. It's entirely online, designed to be convenient, flexible, and suited to your schedule. Just fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched

with a licensed therapist and switch therapists any time for no additional charge. Become your own soulmate, whether you're looking for one or not. Visit betterhelp.com slash unplannedpodcast today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P, dot com slash unplannedpodcast. Back to the episode. Do you think it's mental illness though? Like for someone to go after- help HELP.com

Back to the episode. Do you think it's mental illness though? Like for someone to go after three men and You know time and time again claim to be pregnant and from what I'm from what I'm hearing about these cases. She wasn't You know, I don't I don't know what type of you know, mental illness illness that would be But have you researched that Is there any sort of theory that you have on what could be going on? I've seen what people say, like this is indicative of this, split personality or there's I've seen certain terminology, but I'm not here to diagnose. I do believe that there is some type of, well, there's a mental aspect. Absolutely. Nobody does this for the fun of it.

Like I believe that, again, she, my belief, just my opinion, this could be wrong, but my belief, and I'm entitled to my own opinion, but I believe her parents coddled her, and I think her parents basically created, allowed her to get away with these things and show her that you can kind of get away with stuff if you have the money to be able to take people to court and bleed them out financially. And so they were able to kind of get her out of all these situations. And so I think that's where she began to feel invincible. And the message is she would send me. She would talk about how like, you know,

she said one time she threatened me. She said, I will take you to court and I will win. I have an infinite amount of money. So she threatened me and said, I will bury you basically in court because you can't keep up with the money that I have. That's so interesting, because yeah, our friends that had an adoption scam, same situation, this scammer had very wealthy parents.

And yeah, it's a whole massive story, a whole other conversation, but it's crazy when someone has the resources of money, you can hire the best lawyers, you can cover your tracks. And that's just so interesting that this person, this individual has those resources, and that's why at least it seems that they're able to do this. It's frustrating because I grew up in a blue-collar environment where we had everything that we needed, but we don't have access. And I'm still at a place where like I have what enough, but I don't have an access. I don't have at least an equivalent

access to what she has. So to fight, you know, head to head, I mean, I've been very fortunate. I've had some people, you know, I have a go fund me that people have raised money for to help me out. But I bought a house right when the midst of all this. So I basically became cash poor by dumping everything in. I'll be okay. Like I got it. I got it all figured out. I'm like, I've been able to make do and I will survive and I pivot and I'll be okay but like it wasn't really great for the timing, I'm like I just poured into a house, I don't really have any excess funds and lawyers are expensive, five, 600 bucks an hour.

And you, didn't you self-represent for one of the court cases too? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And again, I'm stubborn. So I'm still working on that part of me but like. And you lost, right? Like you self-represented and then it didn't work out in your favor.

Yeah, I self-represented in two cases and I got an extension on one of the cases and then the next day I self-represented it and I lost that case. And then I didn't know, but the first case was recorded. It was online. It's online right now. Okay.

They opened it to the public. And so I got out of the court case and I had this podcast, he messaged me and he goes, he said, hey, you did well. And I said, what do you mean? He goes, I want, he said, you did a good job. I just was watching you were very composed. I said, what do you mean you're watching me? He said, you didn't realize that that was live streamed. And I was like, what? He's like, yeah, yeah, there's like 1000 people that watch it apparently on Reddit is like, you're good. And so I went online. I'm like, Oh my gosh, like no one told me this was, you know,

that this was on for everyone to watch So I was self-represented and it actually worked out really well because it got my case out there even more and then people saw like Why is he not a lawyer? Well, then like it started trickle out like he's not a lawyer because he financially He's he just bought a house. He's not in the he's not willing to pay the lawyers and part of me was like Yeah, I also am not guilty like if I guilty, I'd get a lawyer in a heartbeat. But I was like, I feel like I can go in and tell my truth. I'm not the one that has to hide anything. And I just got to tell the lawyer like, hey, she needs to present evidence, right?

I mean, how else can you, how can you say I'm guilty without evidence? So I kind of had that. That was my belief system was I'll go in there and if they'll say, you have to, you know, pay up or you have to, you know, show up for these kids. I'll say, well, okay, where's the proof? And once you can prove that she's pregnant, then sure, I'll step up to the plate, because that was never an issue.

I was like, if she actually was pregnant, I would man up and I would pay, or I would take full custody. She always wanted joint custody. And I was like, absolutely not. I'm not raising these kids with you. It'll make my mental health worse. Like, I cannot be with you.

You are terrorizing me. So, but I said, I go, I will either take 100% or you'll take 100%. And so I was willing to, like if you can present evidence and show that you're actually pregnant, I'll step up to the plate, but I'm not gonna step up to the plate until you prove it. And with the lawyer situation,

isn't there some sort of thing in the legal system where if you end up winning the case, then they have to pay for your lawyer? Is that always the case? Or is that something that is added on top of the legal process? Yeah. So we're going for legal fees right now. Absolutely. And she's claiming that, well, I have a GoFundMe so I don't need legal fees because I'm getting the GoFundMe. Well, I've burned through way more than the GoFundMe

has raised. Oh really? Yeah. Okay. The GoFundMe, again, very, very, very grateful for everyone that has helped out. I think the GoFundMe, again, very, very, very grateful for everyone that's that has helped out. I think the GoFundMe raised 10K. I blew through that within two weeks. Okay. So I am well beyond the GoFundMe at this point. And I don't like to be, but like I basically have this, like the end is in sight and I can't back off at this point. If I back off, she'll do it again. And I know that I don't want another man to go through what I went through and what the previous men went through. So I'm like, I have to put my foot down on the gas and just go full steam ahead.

And yeah, I mean, I'm burning gas, I'm burning money by the minute. But I'm like, I feel like the end's in sight. And hopefully this will get the justice that we need. And she'll be held accountable, whatever that looks like. And obviously you've already said that you do not want anyone to cyber bully her or to dox her and you just want and you're not saying her name because you want to keep that anonymous.

Which I totally respect that. I'm curious though with pursuing this case, what's the end goal? Is it to make sure that it's permanently on her record that she's done this so that she can't do it to other people? Is there something? That's exactly what it is. I would say probably nothing more, nothing less. I don't want her to do this to anybody else. This is the second allegation that I've been hit with. I got hit with a false accusation last year for a cheating scandal that I disproved, thankfully,

within 24 hours. But I'm tired of my name getting dragged through the mud and I think a lot of that had to do with people saw me as a pushover and they saw me as I wasn't well liked coming off the show and so I was an easy target. Was that when you were with Susie that that false allegation came through? Yeah. Okay. So I think people are attacking me because they see me as weak and they saw me as okay I can this this guy you know can't fend for himself so I can go ahead and get what I need to get out of this

individual and ultimately he can't even defend himself So like I'll be able to overpower him. So are you currently suing her for defamation or is that a whole separate thing? I have not stepped up yet to do so But if I don't get the result that I want from this active court case right now, yes I will I will okay unless she comes forward if she comes forward and says I made the whole thing up And I'm looking to seek to get help, then I will not pursue it. If she continues to double down and then the court just says we're going to dismiss it all, I'm absolutely going to sue her for defamation. And I will win because I have so much evidence against her.

And okay, winning aside and maybe recouping some of the money you lost from missed speaking engagements and having your name drugged through the mud, all that aside, does part of you hesitate to do something like that because of it robbing you of your peace, it robbing you of years of your life or months of your life that you'll never get back because you're dealing with this case? I still get emotional talking about this, right?

I mean, just with right there saying, I'll sue her. Like you could sense that I'm, my heart rate was picking up. I'm getting my tone, my voice is raising. Like I still get very, I'm very emotional about all of this. But I have to take a step back and I know that if I do decide to pursue her that she will rob me of my peace for years as she did with the last guy. If I'm lucky, I'll be able to, the court moves slow,

but if I'm lucky, I might be able to get through it. If I open up a defamation case, I might be able to get through it in five, six months. If I'm lucky, more likely I'll be dragging it for a couple of years and at the end of it, she'll just claim bankruptcy and I'll never see a penny. What I was told was unless you're suing a corporation for defamation, an individual will just claim bankruptcy if they lose and you'll never see a cent. So I know I'll never recoup the cost. It's not about that, but yeah, I'll be robbed of my peace and just my energy. And so while I just said emotionally, I will absolutely pursue her. If I take a deep breath and settle back down, I can't give that answer with full certainty, because if I'm just looking at it as the right now, I hope I win this case on February 27th. I really

hope I win it. If I win it, then that should be it. And so that's all I'm like, you know what, until February 27th, I'm gonna just keep living my day to day. I'm not really trying to put a ton of thought into it. I talk about it, you know, on the podcast here and there just to get the story out. But then I go on with the rest of my day, I put it in the back in my mind and I'm like, trying to put a ton of thought into it. I talk about it on the podcast here and there just to get the story out. But then I go on with the rest of my day, I put it in the back in my mind. And I'm like, let me just, okay, until this day shows up,

like there's really no reason to give any more thought. So would I actually, I don't know, I'd have to have that conversation. If I lost this case in the family court, then I would have to sit there and say, is it worth it? Is there some way that she could flee the country or change her name, change her identity? Yeah, she tried to change her name.

And avoid, oh, she did. So she tried to change her name, but because there's so many eyes on this, the public found it within, before I even found it. They found it, the second she filed for it, it got out online like 12 hours later. So she's already tried to file a name change, which just shows that she's dodging all responsibility.

She's totally okay with changing her full identity. She won't take any accountability. That's the extent that she's willing to go to. And so I think it's a lost cause. I can plead with her all day. And she's not going, I think, to change her ways. But that's why I can also say, hey, listen, I can feel for you because I know that that lack of self-worth, I know what that feels like. You and I had had that initial discussion. We talked about it. I know how you feel. And I don't think it's fully your fault. It's your environment. I think it's your family, like your parents. They caused this to happen.

And you think they're your safe haven, but they're not. They're the ones that cause you to be in this situation. And I almost feel like I'm like, if you start to place more accountability on them for what they've created you and turned you into, this is their fault. This isn't all your fault. This is their fault for enabling you, for allowing you to become this way. They should have held you accountable from the very get-go, but they're not because they're the ones that are responsible. And I can take that blame from her and place it upon them because I know they're responsible

because, again, her mother allows it to happen. Her mother deserves to see justice in court. I'm like, you're just as much as the problem, you know, because you're the one that enables us and allows it to go on. And you know that it was wrecking my mental health and you don't care. You don't care. You know exactly what your daughter's doing. You know she's destroying men's mental health. I've had dark thoughts. I've went down a dark freaking path. There have been points when I didn't want to continue living my life because of this woman. And I've talked to previous people and the same thing. They said the same thing. I'm like, I've been

so freaking close because of you. Do you understand what you've done to my mental health? Do you understand that you've taken me down? And I get so angry, so angry, because I'm like, I cannot believe that you're willing to let somebody potentially take themselves off this planet because you won't just take accountability Take a breath I'm so sorry man I'm really scared for what she might do to the next person and I'm really afraid that like they're not gonna be able to handle it and Weirdly enough my previous false accusation. I kept leaning back on that. I was like, well, it's a good thing I've went through this once so I know how the cycle will work I'll be guilty until proven innocent and then

Eventually the facts will come out and people will come back around but I'm gonna get ripped to shreds initially But I know how this works. I've been through it one time before. And so I was able to use the previous allegation. And I was able to then go, okay, I know how this is gonna go and I can get through this. I can get through it and I have an incredible support system. And so I said, okay, I can get through this because you've been through so much, Clayton. Like you can get through this.

Do not give up. Don't give up. Like you will see this through. You have everything you need to get through this and at the end of the day, you will move on and you will survive and you will be stronger and there will be a silver lining. I just had to keep reminding myself of that every single day.

And who is that support system that's helping you through this? Man, I got so many incredible people. It's my parents, my brothers. It's strangers that are messaging me every day saying, I heard your story and I believe you. And I want you to just be happy and you've went through so much. And they just give me that validation and that support

to know that I'm not alone in this. Has it been hard to find people in Arizona? I don't know how long you've lived here, but Obviously moving to a new new city new state It's not easy to make community right away Have you've had people physically here with you to surround you with that support? It was incredible is that? When you're vulnerable You provide a safe space for others to be vulnerable to you back toward you. I've had so many people come to me and share their struggles and share these deep, deep, deep secrets that

they won't even tell their family and friends because they're fearful of judgment from them. And so they'll tell a stranger because they're like, well, if the stranger judges me, I don't have to ever see them on a daily basis. So oftentimes, just the strangers will tell strangers some pretty crazy things or like some deep secrets because they're like, hey, I don't have to ever like see you again. I'm not gonna go to work the next day

and you're gonna be there. But I've had a lot of people open up to me and they see that, well, he's vulnerable. So I can obviously be vulnerable. And he's willing to be transparent and admit that he's made mistakes and that he crossed these boundaries. But he's, but you know, if he's willing to be transparent and admit that he's made mistakes and that he crossed these boundaries. But if he's willing to, obviously he won't judge me

for what I've done. And I've had people tell me some of the wildest things and I'm so sorry that they've went through them. But I've been able to build strong, strong connections with strangers off of just one hour conversation. I mean, I'm having one, two hour conversations with strangers that I've met 20 minutes prior because when you're vulnerable, when you just open up,

it's a rarity amongst humans because we're so fearful. We live in a society where there's the fear of the unknown, there's fear of judgment. And everyone's trying to live for others and very few people live for themselves. And so when you just are authentically you, it's refreshing and it starts to attract people where they're like, wow, I like his energy

and I feel safe around him. And so people come to me and they open up. And then what that does is it creates a bond because then I'm like, thank you because you sharing makes me realize that at face value, I thought you had it all together. But now I realize that you're struggling just like I am, like we all are.

Would you say you're more of someone that has a lot of friends and you're like kind of close with a lot of people, or you have just a few really, really close friends and you're really tight with those very few people? I would say I have a lot of accomplices. And I usually would accomplish it in a friendly manner. I have so many great

connections. I mean, I connect with so many, I love to talk if you can't tell, you know. But I love just to talk because again, I'm an open book and I got nothing to hide. So I just, I'm like, if I said anything today that maybe crossed a line or offended somebody, you know the good thing about it is I'm totally okay with being wrong. If people say, I don't like the way he said that and they attack me online, I actually welcome that because I know I'm not perfect and I know that there's things that I still have to refine and be better about and learn from. So I don't, the great thing is I don't second guess what I say,

because I'm just saying what I feel and what I believe. And if it's wrong in the eyes of the majority, well, then I'll step back and go, okay, thank you for holding me accountable. Right. So I love having interactions and talking and I used to be very guarded with what I said out loud because I didn't want people to judge me and so I would just basically give interview answers because I wouldn't really speak my mind because I was so afraid of people like coming down on me for my true beliefs. Now I just basically, I'm gonna, I just, word vomit, I just let it

out there and I'm like if you like me great if you don't like something I said great too you know why? Because if you don't like something I said let it out there and I'm like, if you like me great, if you don't like something, I said great too, you know why? Because if you don't like something I said, let's have a conversation, help me grow. And so that's why I would say I'm really connected with a lot, a lot of people, but I only trust a few. We've talked about so much today and I really appreciate you making the drive out to share your story and let your voice be heard.

But I just wanted to hit you with one final question, I guess, to someone that's going through a similar situation or to somebody who maybe is thinking about getting into a relationship with somebody and they're seeing warning signs. Like what would you say to look out for so that people don't have something like this happen to them? Don't believe everything that you see in here.

If something feels off, you have every right to go take a deeper dive and really make sure with full certainty that your reality is your actuality. That's good. There's just liars and cheaters out there and bad people and they'll tell you something with conviction like you've never seen it before. And they're praying on the fact that their conviction will override your skepticism. You know what? If something feels off, your intuition is telling you something's off for a reason.

So don't push it down. Say, okay, if something feels off, let me go just make sure. There's no harm in double checking. Well, Clayton, thank you so much for sharing your story. And if you guys haven't checked out Clayton's Instagram, you can find him there. Where else can we find you, Clayton, just so that we can keep up to date with everything? And I guess the court case that you said is February 27th?

I'm old school as far as I don't like to be on so many different apps. So I'm on Instagram. Everything's on Instagram. My website is in the link in my bio. Everything I'm doing is on that, ClaytonEcord.com, which is on my bio, the link for my Instagram, so it's all on Instagram.

And it's just ClaytonEcker, that's my handle. Pressure coming out, wishing only the best for you, and thank you so much for your vulnerability today. I know it probably wasn't easy to say some of the things that you said, so appreciate you opening up and just sharing your story. Yeah, thank you so much, man, this is so great. Thank you so much for watching the episode till the end.

Wanted to give you guys an update on Abby. So unfortunately, right after the episode concluded, we got the horrible news that her grandpa passed away. Abby actually came in halfway through the recording because she wasn't able to get on the flight that she thought she was gonna get on to go back home to the Midwest to be with her family. But luckily now as I'm recording this, she is back,

she's back in the Midwest with her family. I'm flying out tomorrow. My son's asleep upstairs and I'm gonna hop on a flight in the morning to meet her and be there with the rest of their family to mourn this loss. So thank you guys so much for being here. Thank you for your thoughts, your prayers, your condolences. And if you could just

Be thinking of Abby and her family at this time that'd be very much appreciated and Yeah, we love you guys