The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby - Dr. Mike Debunks Birth Control, Home Births & Medical Misinformation

Episode Date: February 21, 2024

Joined by Doctor Mike on this week's show, we delved into the topic of health. Mike debunked different forms of birth control, shared insights on our experience with the breastfeeding method, and discussed the emerging trend of home births. As well as highlighting the prevalence of medical misinformation on social media. This episode was sponsored by Huggies, Hiya, Liquid IV, Prose & Curology. Huggies: Visit https://huggies.com and get your baby’s butt into Huggies best fitting diaper! Huggies Little Movers. Hiya: Go to https://hiyahealth.com/UNPLANNED to claim 50% off your first order. This deal is not on their regular website.  Liquid IV: Get 20% off your first order when you shop superior hydration today using promo code UNPLANNED at https://LiquidIV.com   Prose: Go to https://Prose.com/unplanned and Take your FREE in-depth hair consultation and get 50% off your first subscription order today. PLUS 15% off and free shipping every subscription order after that!  Curology: For a limited time get your first Curology skincare box for $5 when you go to https://Curology.com/UNPLANNED.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

If you're trying to lose weight, exercise is almost meaningless. You're kidding. Yes, it's important, but diet is going to get you majority the way there. Some people say, oh, well, I'm on my period, so I can't get pregnant. Untrue. You could still get pregnant on your period. Fevers carry benefit. Actually, yeah.

What's the benefit? If my kid has a fever, I'm terrified. That's your body fighting off the infection. When you follow the breastfeeding method, the likelihood that you will get pregnant is about the same as if you were on birth control. How the heck did we get pregnant foremost most part of? Is there like a number that like couples should do it per week? Yeah, 47 is usually what I recommend.

Social media is littered with health gurus that lack credibility and medical misinformation. So we sat down with Dr. Mike. He's a board-certified family medicine physician with over 25 million followers. We asked him the tough questions, like is breastfeeding birth control? Does cold plunging actually work? And how to fix your sex life postpartum? We talk about all this and so much more in today's episode.

I can't believe we're with the world famous Dr. Mike. I was listening to your story a little bit. So weren't you supposed to be like on Ellen the generous because you went viral for being like the hot doctor. Yeah. And then, and then it didn't work out or something. It was such a mess. I mean, being a young doctor,

you're thinking about education, education only, cause you want to be the best doctor that you can. And I had this moment of virality, which is weird to say as a doctor going viral, like that sounds like something bad. Yeah. Viral with the pandemic. I got invited to do all these talk shows

and I didn't know what to pick so I picked out on the generous show. And I'm like, all right, this is it. This is my moment. I'm gonna show my medical knowledge, why I'm the youngest doctor in my program, why I published research at a young age and then they call me the day before and they're like,

hey, so Hillary Clinton is announcing her run for presidency. She's never done daytime talk show. So we're kicking you off because the other guests are like Pink and Jimmy Kimmel. Oh my gosh. I'm like, oh, no problem. I'm going to call Steve Harvey back and say like, I'll do your show now. I call back Steve Harvey. They're like, no, no, no, your last week's news. We're no longer interested.

Oh. And I got a really quick lesson in what it's like to get 15 minutes of fame and media. Oh my goodness. And that's why you started your YouTube channel, right? Well, I started doing a few TV shows then and I wanted to put out a meaningful message about preventive care, learning about health and your body and how we can actually

take control of our own health, things that I was passionate about. But all the TV networks were gatekeeping and they were like, well, you know, you're not the world's most famous doctor, you're not from an Ivy League education, why would we use you? And they essentially started kicking me off the shows

and I said, well, okay, I'll do it on my own and be a disruptor because that's what I felt social media was the place for. Now looking back, what is this, like six, seven years later, we have three billion views, long form views on the channel. Holy cow. We're coming up on 12 million subscribers and it's for education.

They're not there anymore for the sexy doctor bit. That was the silly thing that started it. But now people are wanting to learn. And I'm excited about that because that was always my passion from day one. And that's what we're hoping to do today is learn from you because you're a very smart guy. You have just the craziest credentials.

I'm curious, I wanted to open with, how the heck did we get pregnant foremost? I was part of. How did that happen? Well, okay. So this is a thing that we don't communicate well in healthcare in general. It's the communication of risk and what it means to have a chance at something happening. When you follow the breastfeeding method, the technical name for it is lactational amenorrhea method, lamb.

And what is supposed to happen is if you're breastfeeding, the exact correct amount, which means a set of every four hours during the day, every six hours at night, for the six months, exclusively breastfeeding, no supplementation, nothing else, the likelihood that you will get pregnant is about the same as if you were on birth control. Are you kidding me?

But that doesn't mean it's 100% effective. It also doesn't work past six months very well. And most people, I would say that follow this method, don't follow it to a T, which is why it's important to talk about real world outcomes as opposed to what happens under research outcomes. For example, most people hear like, oh condoms are very effective, 90 plus percent effective,

97 percent effective in preventing pregnancy. But then when we actually look at real world outcomes, when people misuse condoms, they break because of misuse. People have intercourse multiple times in a session. They may get some sperm on their hands first and then it ends up on the condom and then they use it. It drops to like mid 80s percentage of working. And I think it's important that we talk about real world

as opposed to what happens when we follow the rules exactly, exactly, right? I feel like that's more applicable. That makes a lot of sense. So likely that's what happened. That's Abby hearing that. That's crazy that we got pregnant. Like that.

Did you follow the rules like those three? Well, see, I think the one that got me is I think we, did we ever go longer stretches than six hours in the night? Maybe, maybe that was it. There was no supplementing. But yeah, we weren't using formula. Every at least four hours in the day. And it was under six months.

The only thing I can think of is maybe we went a longer than six hours stretching the night. And we were told. And it's still 98% so you had a 2% chance there. Crazy. Two out of a hundred people. Yeah I mean we were told by Abby's doctor that like she was like don't rely on breastfeeding as a method and we knew that and we knew of people that had gotten pregnant while breastfeeding before so we knew that but we also thought it was literally like it was comfortable with the back two times two times

Unprotected and that's that's what happened, which is crazy under those circumstances And it's pretty crazy and it's having kids that close ages so much fun I'm so thankful for it, but the initial shock like oh my god That's probably not also good for you having back-to-back Yeah, yeah, the general guidance from like I don't know the FDA or CC who puts out guidance on this is like 18 months In between is ideal to letting things heal and stuff Guidance from like, I don't know, the FDA or CC who puts out guidance on this is like 18 months in between is ideal to letting things heal and stuff. But you know, the body will throw you in for surprises. Wait, 18 months before getting pregnant again

or before like having another baby? Oh, okay, wow. Yeah. But again, it's guidance. And then there's real world what actually happens. So it's important to know that. And the reason why it happens, like the pregnancy while the situation is ongoing is you're supposed to be not having a period when you're breastfeeding, right?

And people say, well, since I'm not having a period, I can't get pregnant. Well, ovulation takes place a couple of weeks before the period. The timing of that is so crazy. Yeah. We were meant to have them bounce back. We had our baby early July and then we found out we were pregnant early December. So that meant that Abby, like, technically got pregnant beginning of November. So yeah four months. That's why I was like Yeah, timing was perfect. Wait, you haven't had a period in how many years is like four years or something. Yeah, that's ridiculous

I've had two babies. Yeah, well because Abby also has an IUD in that like okay Yeah, stop getting her period which I was so curious to speaking of like IUDs and you brought up birth control Yeah, yeah, like I feels and you brought up birth control. Yeah, like I feel like there's been a lot in the media recently about how all of that can affect your hormones and your mood. And there's all these different effects that can potentially happen when you are on birth control,

whether that's the pill or an IUD. And so I'm curious if you could just speak to that because so many people are like, what should I do? There's like a lot of criticism now about birth control. Yeah, yeah. Well, I feel like it's short-sighted, the criticism. And a lot of it is fear-mongering based

and misinformation based. So it's like twisting out percentages of what actually is happening and not taking into consideration the flip side of the equation. Basically, when you're thinking about developing a risk of some medical condition, you also have to think about if you don't do the intervention, what is the risk, right?

So like if you have unintended pregnancies, you may need medical procedures. Pregnancy itself is a high risk medical event. There's things that happen from an unintended pregnancy that are risky. And most people don't think about that. They don't think about the unintended consequences of not taking a birth control. What I see mostly in the social media space is the rise of these health gurus that claim to have all the answers when modern science either doesn't have the answers or wants to bring nuance to the conversation.

Like if you asked me a question today, is thing X good or is medical procedure X good? I will never say it's good or bad. It's for whom, in what scenario, why would you wanna do it? Are you okay with the risks? Are you okay with the potential benefits? Meanwhile, the health gurus that make TikTok videos

and claim to have all the answers are like, it's absolutely terrible for you. This is what you gotta do. Never take this, take this magic pill. This is gonna fix everything. And that certainty and the overconfidence is actually a form of trust hacking, where if you go see a doctor and your doctor's kind of unsure

and that person is so confident, you're more likely, from like lizard brain perspective, to believe the person who's way more confident. But what I'm trying to train people to think when they're looking at and evaluating different experts is the person who's bringing all the nuance is actually the one that is most accurate. Because in medicine, we're trained to think in maybes. So for example, if a patient comes in with abdominal pain, I'm not going to be overly confident, say the exact diagnosis. I'm going to say one that's the most likely, two, three, four others that are part of my differential,

other things it can be. And then also talk about treatments and say, this is a treatment that works X% of the time. Now this is definitely gonna work for you. And that sort of nuance is a little unsettling for people because no one likes to be uncertain, but we have to be comfortable with a level of uncertainty because we're doing the best that we can

with the information we have on hand. That's the correct way to practice medicine. It's crazy too because we've had friends that have had an IUD and gotten pregnant on the IUD when like that, from my understanding, is the most effective method of birth control other than abstinence, I'm sure, because how do you get pregnant?

You're not actually doing it. Yeah, I was about to throw in a joke about that. That's a weird thought in high school, but I feel like not many of my classmates followed that. But anyway, but how does that happen? Like, how does somebody get pregnant on an IUD? Because that, like, theoretically shouldn't happen, right? I mean, anything that's 99% doesn't mean that it's 100%.

So we have to keep in mind that things happen in these scenarios and there's always a risk. Like you said, it's one of the more effective birth control methods. The reason why we like those methods is because they're considered long-acting, reversible contraceptives. Meaning that you put them in,

you don't have to think about it versus remembering having to take the pill every single day at around the same time to get the biggest benefit and they're reversible. So you could always remove an IUD or you could take the implant out. So we like those because there's less chance of human error in those situations.

But it doesn't mean they're 100% perfect. I just did a sex ed quiz that's going live on my YouTube channel today with my nephew and I asked them, do you think condoms are the most effective form of birth of choice? He said yes, which is not true. It's these long acting reversible agents. We also ask questions like, if there is sperm floating in a pool, can it like seep its way in and get someone pregnant or in a hot tub? The answer is no. But he was like, oh my god, maybe. I don't know. So there's a lot of misinformation swirling on there online and in people's minds

that we have to like really get out there as doctors and do a little better job at educating on. Yeah. I'm going to throw a curveball at you. And I'm so curious your what your thoughts are on this but we just had something on the podcast that was in this whole controversy where this woman claimed that she got pregnant and she said that even though they didn't actually do it because they did other acts where his you know substance got on her and then she said it somehow got and inside of her somehow like what is the likelihood of that? Yeah very little. Like if you're rounding down to a whole number, it's probably zero, but it can happen.

So like I talked about earlier, like if you have semen or sperm on your fingers and then you put on a condom for the second time, so it's very possible that that could happen. Especially if you're not using like a spermicide, a lubricant, that's actually gonna kill the sperm. Also, some people say, oh, well, I'm on my period, so I can't get pregnant.

Untrue. You could still get pregnant on your period. Because remember, most people, when they're saying they're on their period, it's because it's the act of bleeding. But just because you may be having some bleeding, that could be spotting, that could be something else. And you're not actually having your period.

So there is no 100% way to time it where you're not actually having your period. So there is no like 100% way to time it where you're not gonna get pregnant. Every time you're having unprotected sex, and even when you're having protected sex, there's a possibility that you're getting pregnant. So then how do you feel about those birth control methods where they like give you a green light or red light? Oh yeah, like natural family planning.

So there's no way to predict it. Yeah, I mean, look, that's an imperfect system. There's better ways like with the long acting agents, stacking things, like if you have an IUD plus a barrier method like a condom is usually the best way because you're getting really good odds there. And on top of it, you're also getting STI protection, which most people don't think about.

They think, oh, well, I got the contraception checked off. I did the IUD or I have the implant in, but then what about sexually transmitted infections? Also important to think about, they think, oh, well, I got the contraception checked off, I did the IUD or I have the implant in, but then what about sexually transmitted infections? Also important to think about, because they do impact folks' lives and it's easy enough to put on a condom and be safe that way. And speaking on sexually transmitted disease, obviously the condom is a great way to protect against that. Are there other methods too, in addition to condoms that people can, that's it? Okay. Yeah. Because isn't there like, there's a condoms that people can, that's it, okay.

Cause isn't there like, there's a condom for men in I think I learned in health class high school. There's like a female. There's a female one too, but I'm sure the male condom is probably more effective. It's more popular. I just, it's not something that even most people discuss, but it empowers females to be able to bring their own tool

to the game if the male's unprepared. There's also dental dams, like if you're gonna go oral sex wise. Oh, yeah, okay. They're just again, not as popular but definitely an option. I get barriers the key. We put condoms kind of in that category. This episode of the unplanned podcast is brought to you by Huggies Little Movers. Nothing is worse than when there's a blowout and the poop gets all over your kids clothes, then it gets on your hands and it gets on the carpet and then on the rug. It's a mess, okay? And bottom line is you want to make sure you're using some good diapers on your little kiddo.

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Aw, you're right, that's so cute. So cute. So get your baby's butt into Huggies, best fitting diaper, Huggies' little movers. We got you, baby. Back to that episode. So if I'm a woman that wants to, you know, have some sort of birth control but not mess

with my hormones and I'm afraid of like hormonal methods, like what should I do? Like what would you say to that woman? Yeah, well first of all, if I, I'll do it like role play almost. If I have a patient that comes in and is worried about hormonal issues with birth control, there has to be some questions down the line of like what sparked this worry? What exactly are you worried about? And I tried to get down to the foundation of where the worry's coming from.

And if it's based on some sort of false premise or false information, sometimes just debunking that information and actually showing the correct statistics can help a person change their mind and say, well, actually, oh, I actually want this. But there are non hormonal methods. The first one that comes to mind is like the paragraph, the copper IUD, which is something we do

in our office quite often. That's a non hormonal IUD, which is a long acting, reversible form of contraception with great statistics. Condoms also great in that regard as well. And again, you're getting the extra benefit of STI protection as well. So you don't have any like staunch beliefs about hormonal birth control being?

No, absolutely not. Because it's not about having staunch beliefs in healthcare. It's about knowing what the truth is through good quality evidence and then presenting that good quality evidence for the person sitting in front of you. In fact, like the whole art of medicine is taking generalized information

and then individualizing it to you if you were my patient. Because the things that happen on a general level don't necessarily always happen on an individual level. I'll give you an example. So you've heard of people having high blood pressure and lowering it being important, right? To a healthy range, right? Because if you have elevated blood pressure, that can, like the diagnosis of hypertension,

that can raise your risk of having a heart attack and stroke. So we've seen in medical research that if you control someone's blood pressure to a set number from having hypertension to a better number, it reduces their risk of having heart attack or stroke in the general population by like around 30%, let's say. That's great, right? 30% less heart attacks and strokes. But then do you know how many patients I would have to treat to prevent one case of a heart attack and stroke with blood pressure medication?

80. So that means 79 people I'm gonna be giving a medicine to that's not working. That doesn't mean it's not a valuable medicine. It still is. It just means that not everyone is always having a heart attack and stroke. That's why I need to give it so many times.

Because in the rare instance, if they do have a chance of having it, that medicine will prevent it from happening. So I did this body scan at the gym a couple of months ago and it freaked me out. Okay, tell me where. It said my age that I'd lived to is 75. Okay. And I was like, crap, both my grand paul's dad at 75. I'm 25, that's only 50 years away. And it got me thinking about like my

heart health. And I'm wondering like, is that one of the biggest causes of death, I guess? Like is everybody just dying from a heart attack or stroke? Yeah, number one cause of death globally and in the United States is heart disease. And what's the best way you can prolong that so you have the longest life possible? I don't only think about the longest life possible as a doctor. I think about length of life but also quality of life, right? I don't want to just extend your life indefinitely because that's also not always the healthiest thing to do and it's not something you may want to do. So I think about quality of life and length of life.

And the way that we think about heart disease is maintaining a healthy lifestyle because lifestyle modifications are the greatest drivers of heart disease. So if we control our cholesterol numbers, if we control our blood pressure numbers, when I say control, I mean keeping it in a healthy range. If we get the correct number of hours of sleep

for our age group, if we focus on our mental health, if we get our recommended 150 minutes of moderate intensity exercise in a week, those things are going to lead you to have the healthiest outcomes. Then, if we did something imperfect, which we do as humans, we may have slightly higher cholesterol because of our diets or our lifestyles or maybe our blood pressure is a little elevated because we are living stressful lives or we have a genetic condition and having a healthy relationship

with your primary care doctor to see where medicines can come in and help mitigate some of that risk as well, that's gonna give you the best chance of having a hard, healthy lifestyle. Which is more important, diet or exercise? I would say it depends for what is number one, but I probably would lean it towards diet.

So for example, if you're trying to lose weight, exercise is almost meaningless. You're kidding. Yes, it's important, but diet is gonna get you the majority of the way there. Because in order to burn enough calories to counter overeating, let's say a thousand calories even, you need to like have a sprint workout for an hour and no one's exercising that much.

So like when most people exercise, they get on the treadmill for 20, 30 minutes, they'll burn like three, 400 calories. That's one Snickers bar. What? How does it? Okay. So that's why I'm saying diet is way more important because it's a lot easier to Over eat calories than it is to burn calories. Yeah, that makes sense Just from like the I keeping everything else excluded. I'm shocked because okay

So for instance Abby's five months postpartum she looks incredible and she works out five days a week Which like to me that motivates me to get my butt to the gym It's like I normally wouldn't do that. I'm like my wife works out so much like I can't be a lazy bum and just sit back and do nothing. It's okay Matt you can get fat. I don't want to be fat. I want to look good for you. I'm like I want to look good for you. That's great that you guys are motivating each other with it. But she's so motivating and I'm like I have attributed her looking so good because she works out so much and I but you're saying it's really more more diet. Well it's more but it's not either or I don't think that's like a kind of a false dichotomy I think you should do both because I've said this before if I was to take all

the benefits that you get from exercise and put it in a pill I'd be a trillion right now richest person on earth because there's so many benefits to exercise outside of weight loss outside of strength strength gains, it helps your sex life, it helps your mental state, it helps maintain social bonds because you work out together. Like all of those things, if I can take all those benefits

and put them into something that you could just take, oh my God, it's incredible. I feel like people do that. I feel like there's always ads on social media. People are like, oh, just eat the, have you seen those words like, what's better, this cheeseburger or this salad? Yeah.

Actually, it's the cheeseburger because it's like less calories or something. And I'm like, what? Like, that doesn't really make sense. It's a complete fabrication of truth. And it just shows that someone is not really well-versed in the science. I actually just had a doctor on my podcast

and he was trying to equate a Hershey's bar with eating grapes. And he's like, why eat grapes? They're all sugar bombs. Might as wellate a Hershey's bar with eating grapes. And he's like, why grapes? They're sugar bombs. Might as well eat a Hershey's bar. And that cannot be further from the truth because that sort of thinking just compares the sugar content in the two things. But just because two things have the same sugar content, it doesn't mean they have

the same impact on your health. Grapes have fiber. Chocolate doesn't. Grapes have vitamins, minerals, valuable nutrients that are healthy for you that chocolate doesn't have, especially milk chocolate. So to compare the two just on one variable is really just like hyper zooming in

and not thinking about the entire picture. It's like focusing and saying, you shouldn't run because sometimes you may pull a muscle. Well, yeah, you may pull a muscle, but what about all the other benefits that you're neglecting? So it's not a complete picture of what's going on. And fun fact, like Sam behind the camera here who works with me, he doesn't have a medical background, but he has a lot of medical curiosity, and he came onto the channel and was like, Mike, why don't we do some stuff where you can go into fast

food places and you could rank things from healthiest to least and I struggle with that concept because it's very difficult to make accurate comparisons where you don't mislead people. And some people say, oh, it's not a big deal. Hershey's and grape, like it's not that big of deal. I think it leads people to start having an unhealthy relationship with food. And I feel like that's the worst form

of diet culture that exists. You mentioned fast food and it got me thinking because we eat out a lot and we're always on the road and always filming podcasts in other cities. And so I'm always trying to figure out what's the healthiest thing I can get when I eat fast food? Cause I wanna put good things things my body and so I

Like look to Chipotle. I'm like Chipotle has to be healthy, right? Like they make everything fresh they make it same day and For the most part it looks pretty good, but then I got online and looked at the sodium content and I was like holy crap It's like your daily value of sodium in one meal if not more. Yeah, so I'm curious Where should we go eat when we're on the road and do you think Chipotle's healthy? Well, I love Chipotle, so I'm biased in that regard, so I'm gonna point that out.

I think it's yummy, but you do have to watch your salt intake, especially those who are struggling with heart disease, because salt, one of its unintended consequences, an over-consumption of salt can actually raise your blood pressure, and blood pressure makes your heart have to work harder to pump against that pressure, which can cause actual physical changes of your heart,

making it less effective, build up a fluid. Again, this isn't people who have heart disease. For the average person, if you're athletic and you're consuming enough water and there's nothing else going on, having a little bit more sodium, your kidneys will function well and be fine. So I don't, like for myself, to worry about that too much.

And even in Chipotle, if you modify your bowl, you can moderate your salt intake. It's just really when you're thinking about seasoning and they're seasoning meat, like you'll see chefs, like famous chefs on YouTube, and you watch their preparation of meat. I mean, they're just, they're like, salt makes everything taste better.

And I cringe watching because I'm like, there's no nutrition label on this. I can't imagine how much salt is in this meat. Oh my gosh. So when you eat at a restaurant, you're likely getting salt bombs because they know it makes things taste a lot better. Even when they're cooking, maybe it's not spectacular.

So if I'm eating plenty, if I'm drinking plenty of water and working out, let's say three days a week, is it okay if I have Chipotle every day? Yeah, I mean, if, like, you have to look at your macros, like what else are you eating in the day? Because if you're eating Chipotle during the day, but then you're having cold cuts at night, things that are high in salt as well,

like maybe not ideal, but I would never say it's terrible. You know what I'm saying? Cause this is where another thing, podcast hosts and medical gurus online get wrong. They start focusing on one factor and making it sound like that's the thing that's going to destroy your life. Or on the other way, like ice baths are going to make you function so much better. What they fail to realize is life is so multifactorial.

Like your mood and whether or not someone is mean to you on the street or whether or not you get into a car accident on your Uber ride home has a way bigger impact on your health than whether or not you had a Chipotle bowl that day. So I try and get people out of this thing of over focus, over worry, because that anxiety surrounding the Chipotle bowl will likely be more unhealthy than Chipotle bowl unless you have a pre-existing medical condition. You see how doctors are annoying and how they answer questions? I appreciate that perspective though because I think it's so easy on social media especially like I'm all my stuff recently has been breastfeeding and babies and

stuff and it just it's like fear-mongering in a way like I don't know making you like afraid of medical intervention or like this is the only way to do it or like we even got Criticism about our own tell me what the criticism was I don't know. I had a C-section and then people like no That's like you can't like C-sections like the absolute worst you have to avoid it all costs And you had a C-section because you were worried about shoulder dystocia from the first pregnancy Yeah, so that's an important topic to talk about shoulder dystocia is an emergency where

Despite having the head come out the shoulders essentially get stuck in the birth canal And that creates risk for brachial plexus injury, which is the nerve that supplies the rest of the arm It can actually cause damage to the mother as well so lots of issues can come actually like fetal demise and issues with the fetus itself or the baby. And it's an emergency. So we need to act quickly in those scenarios. And when we think about what raises risk of that, the biggest risk factor is the size of the baby.

Having the baby be over eight pounds, 13 ounces officially puts you at the risk for that. The medical definition of that is fetal macrosomia, having a large baby. What predisposes you to have a large baby is having diabetes, gestational diabetes while pregnant that can create a larger baby. Also, use of forceps, vacuum assisted delivery, things that we use to help navigate a difficult delivery can actually raise the risk of shoulder dystocia.

And in some instances we have to help navigate a difficult delivery can actually raise the risk of shoulder dystocia. And in some instances, we have to do a C-section to prevent that from happening. I'm curious, in your case, was your first baby's weight high? He wasn't, he was like eight, four. Okay, yeah, close. And then our doctors said like, if he was of our... Our second was quite a bit bigger. Second baby was measuring any bigger,

she would feel like a little bit worried about like not doing a C-section and he was 814 at 39 weeks. So then- Fetal Microsomia. Yeah, so she was like, I feel comfortable. And also even just having my first a week early, like at 39 weeks, that got criticism too. So it's just- Also, yeah, so getting oxytocin or ptocin during pregnancy increases the risk of cirrhosis or dystocia as well. So then maybe that's why. Well, again, it's not definitely why remember,

multifactorial, a lot of things happening in those situations. And for people criticizing you is a little ridiculous because they don't know the exact medical circumstance and medicine is imperfect science. So when we recommend things, it's not with, this is definitely the right move. There's some cases where it's like, no, no, no, absolutely contraindicated.

Absolute contraindications, like you never do this in this scenario. But in that scenario, you're weighing pros, you're weighing cons, you're thinking about the risks, the benefits, during a stressful situation, you're letting a doctor help you make the best decision. I don't think anyone can judge you for that unless they were there. Thank you

to Haya for sponsoring today's episode. Are you okay over there? I was just resituating myself. Okay typical children's vitamins are basically candy in disguise you guys. They are filled with two teaspoons of sugar, unhealthy chemicals, and other gummy junk growing kids should never eat. Honestly it has been a growing stressor of mine. How much sugar is packed into products designed for children? Like why are they putting it in vitamins? That's supposed to be healthy for them. And then they're packing it with sugar. Kids love sweet stuff, man. They really do.

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Yep We've worked out a special deal with Haya for their best-selling children's vitamin received 50% off your first order to claim this deal You must go to HayaHealth.com slash unplanned. This deal is not available on their regular website. Go to hiyahelth.com slash unplanned and get your kids in the full body nourishment they need to grow into healthy adults. Back to the episode. Yeah, I just, I really trust our doctor. So I was like, I, I'm not like bring her on, have her talk, but like, I just I really trust our doctor. So I was like, I Bring her on have her talk But like I just really trusted her and like her advice was have him at 39 weeks and then do a c-section and it was great Honestly, I preferred the c-section

It was crazy how different it was like because the c-section recovery obviously was- like seeing you go through that I hated it. Because like you were in a lot of pain. Your scar still hurts right now. Is that normal for women to still feel like- All scars could potentially cause harm, not harm, pain long term. Okay. But it depends. Every person will react differently. Yeah, because Abby like seeing her- the recovery was very long from a C-section. But then with the birth, it was like all at once,

very, very intense. So much blood everywhere. It was great. It was like a war scene. I think that's more traumatized from it than me. Well, I think what I realized too, talking to other people that have babies, like everyone's experience is completely different.

And so our experience, I think just with the nature of like the person that you are and your body shape and the size of our babies and so many other factors like it seemed like ours just tended to be more on the very intense side for birth and then we know women that just like the baby came right out and it was like very calm. They were at their house and it was peaceful. And the epidural was like fully and like fully going and they didn't really feel much. And so it's just like, you hear of these like really peaceful births and these like very traumatic like, the baby's stuck dad out of the way. And like that's what, that was ours.

So. That was ours. Yeah, all that happens. And that's why like home births as a topic has come up a lot in the healthcare community and folks are kind of very polarized by the subject. What have you guys heard? I'm curious. Abby, take this one. I feel like you have strong opinions. What have I heard?

For me, I would be like absolutely not I'd be way more scared at home without doctors present. Yeah, and like if I was like in Medical setting if we would have had this shoulder dystocia at home. I would have been Not want to just be alone with you Ideally it's not alone. you. Homebirth is not home with hubby. Yeah, okay, that's true. It's not hubby birth. I know people that have done that though. Your husband, what?

That's not recommended. I don't trust this guy at all. Non-medical hubby birth is not something that I would consider as a proper home birth by medical standards. We have a friend that told us about one of their friends that had their baby just in a hospital room. They didn't even tell the hospital. No, no, not a hospital.

Hotel room. I'm sorry, hotel room. They booked a hotel. They booked a hotel room. This was on, we used to live in Hawaii on the North Shore, which is like, I think we were kind of far from a hospital. All our friends had to drive into town 45 minutes ago to go to the closest hospital.

But this girl, like after college, like rented out this or just booked the hotel And I guess didn't say anything brought her like her pool or whatever blow and had the baby in the in the hotel room Wow To me that like springs in my mind is like people using ubers as ambulance rides because our healthcare system is so messed up that Ambulances are so expensive so people are Ubering their medical emergencies. And Uber has to put out a statement and they stop using Uber as a form of medical transportation as terrible as that is.

This Uber driver is just not prepared. Yeah. Did they get there faster than actual ambulances? I mean, I don't know, but it's not safe. Obviously we wouldn't recommend that because Uber drivers are focused on driving and not delivering medical care, so. How much is an ambulance?

It could be really expensive. Like the ranges is like 500 to $1,800. Like it could be really expensive. And you have to pay that. It's not like you can just, oh, sorry. Have to pay is like. Oh, okay. Yeah, I mean, you have to pay it.

Okay. Yeah, that's a lot of money. I mean, insurance should cover it, but. One time when we used to, we used to, we worked at a pizza restaurant in college and this guy came in, he was like, call an ambulance. Like I'm not feeling well. And I was like so scared.

I was like, I called 911 right away, but I was wondering like, did he come into the store because he was hoping the payment would fall on the pizza restaurant or would it still fall on him? No, it would still fall on him. Okay. The only situation where like the pizza place gets involved is if there was an injury or illness due to some negligence or their private property. And he just came off the street, but he looked like he,

the way he appeared at least, I thought he probably had a phone. So I was like, I wonder why he wants us to call. Maybe he just didn't have his phone on him or something. But that's, that's so interesting. I did not realize people were doing that. I wanna know your thoughts on home birth. My thoughts, again, are gonna be very nuanced. I won't give a good or bad answer on it. For good quality research, what we've seen is that in areas where there is already a system set up

for home births, either midwives, doulas, some kind of advanced practitioners, perhaps, that are there to help guide the process in a low risk pregnancy. In those situations, three things happen risk-wise. Number one is you have a decreased risk of medical intervention, meaning that kind of makes sense, right?

If you're not in a hospital, you're less likely to get forceps, you're less likely to use vacuums because you're in a hospital, you're less likely to get forceps, you're less likely to use vacuums because you're in a hospital. Second is there's less injuries to, slightly, to the birthing person. So mothers are less likely to have third degree tears, et cetera. And then the final one is either equal

or slightly higher risk of neonatal mortality. Like the baby is dying. Oh, really? Either equal risk or slightly higher risk of neonatal mortality, like the baby's dying. Oh, really? Either equal risk or slightly higher. So people- But there's a lot of factors here. Okay. It has to be, follow all those categories

of like the low risk pregnancy, having a system in place that is not just dad delivering the baby, that you have a trained professional there, you have a plan on what to do if there's a complication, because when they look at the research, there is a significant percentage in the double digits of people having to go to the hospital,

either mid-pregnancy or post-pregnancy. So those things do happen. I think there's another YouTube couple that wanted to have a home birth, and then they weren't able to. I think it happens a lot. And they had to go have a C-section. So in the United States, it's really rare.

The percentage is like 1% of births are home births in the Netherlands I believe it's the highest to the tune of like 14% Oh, wow our home births. Yeah, and they just have a midwife there. Is that typically what someone has? Yeah, yeah, home birth. Yeah, and they have that plan in place of what to do if things get complicated Someone well experienced There's a state in the United States that has I forget which, that has a really good system in place already for home births and they see obviously better outcomes than all the other states because they have the system in place. Yeah, I can see how it'd be very comfortable to be in your own home, to have that peace

and not be in some, you know, for some people I think hospitals can be scary and so just getting to, yeah, give birth at your home. I can see the appeal of that for sure, especially if you have a low risk pregnancy and your doctor has told you that, yeah, you're low risk. Yeah, I think that's like the biggest takeaway for folks is if you're considering it, discuss it with your doctor and don't just ask your doctor, do you recommend this? If you wanna ask that, that's fine,

but then ask why or why not? Like allow them to state their reasons of concern. Well, you're not totally low risk. You have problem X, Y, and Z, or I'm concerned about X, Y, and Z. Or yes, I am fine with this because you follow all the protocols that the guidelines set forward and that you are low risk and you have this plan in place. Always ask one question, but then with follow-ups intended as well for doctors. Do you feel like a lot of the criticisms coming at doctors like on social media

Like I feel like I hear a lot that it's like doctors are just trying to make money I think they're just trying to like that they don't want you to have home births because they can charge you at the hospital Yeah, no, that's like a little bit of a conspiracy. Yeah in general doctors like I guess it more so before But now I still people are talking about like, hungry, pharma, this and that. I always see the hypocrisy in those statements because the people who are usually saying that are selling you something also, like some miracle supplement

where it's also a billion dollar industry. So they're like, don't trust pharma because they're making money off you. It's like, but you're making millions and billions off me too. So let's neglect those points and then look at the other cells. Yeah, exactly. Because it's like, well, Farmer also has to prove what did you guys have an essential oil for?

I saw your video, you were like reacting to people using essential oils. And it was like this girl like like rubbing it on her forehead. And it's like, oh, here's some and they're like, just like just coding this girl in essential oils and your reaction was hilarious. I mean, it's some and they're like just like just coding this girl in essential oils. Yeah, your reaction is hilarious It's it's so ridiculous because they don't really care about you when they're making those recommendations because look Do I think essential oils or like these types of? I don't even know what to call like natural methods natural is not even a great word because natural doesn't mean safe But these low risk tools can be used in healthcare.

I think there are places for them. So a prime example of that is, let's say a patient comes in with a viral infection. And I tell them, look, I can't use antibiotics here because you have a virus. You really gotta just rest, hydrate well, and heal up by eating fruits, vegetables, all that stuff. If they have a strong belief that smelling orange essential oils is going to help them,

odds are because they have that belief, it will help. Because the placebo effect is real. That's crazy. So why the heck would I, like it's not like that's hurting them. There's no like sniff, sniff away. Because then where I do step in is where they say, oh, essential oils will help control your blood sugar if you're diabetic. And that person ends up in a diabetic coma from DKA,

diabetic ketoacidosis. And now that person dies because of this belief in essential oils. That's where I step in. Yeah. But if it's low risk, if it's for comfort, if for symptom control, mental health support, police by all means do it. That is crazy. I was actually about to ask that about the placebo effect because there has to be research that backs that up.

Oh, absolutely. When you believe something. It worked on me. Oh yeah, I'm sure. Abby, I feel like the placebo effect works wonders on you. My mind. No, Abby, when she was a kid, what's it called again where you couldn't sleep?

I hadn't somnia for a whole summer as a kid. And I would literally stay up. It felt like all night I probably fell asleep obviously at some point and my mom was like Abby I have this perfect sleeping pill and it'll make you fall asleep tonight after like a couple months this it was a tic-tac I found out like seven years later. Well, it was delicious. I couldn't tell I took it like a pill I wouldn't oh you swallowed she's I was gonna say I was gonna do the doctor thing and warn you like you should never put a sucky candy in before you go to sleep because if you fall asleep You could choke on it, but you swallowed it

Swallowed like a pill and I fell asleep. It was her insomnia pills that were given to her by the doctor, but that placebo effect works 30% of the time crazy That has a 30% efficacy rate. That's why when we test medications and things to see if they actually work, we do something called a randomized double-blinded study. Randomized control double-blinded study. What does that mean? First of all, you don't wanna have a selection bias

where like people are volunteering for the treatment cause odds are if they're volunteering for it, they're excited about it, it's gonna work better. So you gotta randomize the population. So it works on anybody, not just this specific set of population. So first of all, you randomize it. Then when you control it,

that means you tested it against placebo. So I don't just say, does acetaminophen, which is the active ingredient in Tylenol, does this work in reducing pain? I say, how well does it work in reducing pain compared to giving you a pill that looks like Tylenol but isn't Tylenol? That is just nothing. It's a sugar pill. Then we see, does it truly work? Because when I say that ending statement, the double blinded,

the researchers don't know which is the actual Tylenol pill that has the active medication and the participants don't know. So they're both blind. Oh, that's cool. And in the end, we open it up and we see, well, which group had pain control? And we'll compare which one actually reduced pain. So if it's placebo, then we know Tylenol doesn't work for that. We actually do know, but in this scenario. I love that so much because I feel like bias plays into everything in our world. And so when there's just strict data behind stuff like that and no bias, no, oh, I feel this way. So I think it's true. Like, I love that. That's how our

medical system or whatever. Well, we try our best. I wouldn't say we have no bias. That would be giving us too much credit. Yeah. We just try our best to be as hyper aware of all the bias that can exist and take that into consideration. There's even some really like cool biases that I've studied that I've talked about on the channel. Like you've heard of people saying, oh, the 105 year old is here today to tell us the one secret that has allowed them

to live longer. You know that actually is a bias, there's a name for it. It's called survivorship bias. And we think that because this person lived to 105, they must have the key. Whereas all their friends that did the same thing all didn't live to 105. And that's the huge majority of them.

So that's odds are not the secret. And there's a cool study that actually tested this using, I believe it was Oscar winners. Have you heard about this? It's such a fun one. So basically what they tested was, there was a theory that Oscar winners live longer than those who don't win an Oscar.

And they tested this and it was true. Those who won the Oscars live longer on average than their colleagues that didn't win Oscars. So they were like, oh my God, it's the Oscars effect. Look at that. Like if you win an award, you get it. Can you guys guess why that's complete BS? And why that's survivorship bias?

I don't know. I don't see, is that just like correlation does not prove? Oh, that's a cool one. Okay. Well, you're gonna say correlation does not equal cause A. That's true. So just because two events happen at the same time, doesn't mean they cause each other to happen at the same time.

So frequently in the summer, we have a lot more ice cream sales, right? Because people eat ice cream in the summer. There's also more shark attacks because people go in the water. So because there are more shark attacks, doesn't mean that there's more ice cream sales, but they're both correlated. They don't cause each other to happen.

So it's important we always think about that in sales, but they're both correlated. They don't cause each other to happen Yeah, so it's important. We always Think about that in medicine, but that's not the answer to this Thank you to liquid IV for sponsoring this portion of today's episode We had a debate the other day about which liquid IV flavor was the best and you guys in the comments were saying no It's this one. No, it's this one, but I'm proud to announce that we actually found out it's peach No, it's actually peach, which is super peach. It's the best flavor. That one's sugar-free too Which is really good, but I actually like the sugar-free grape one. Honestly all of the liquid IV flavors are so good If you don't know what liquid IV is, it's basically it's a packet that you pour into

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And they're also great if you've had a crazy weekend. Yeah, my brother told me that. He said that he'll have friends that will have a crazy party and I, woo! And then the next day they're down in some liquid IV. I've heard they're great for that as well. Weekends are for going wild. Have a game plan for Monday with liquid IV. Grab your liquid IV hydration multiplier sugar-free and bulk nationwide at Costco or get 20% off your first order when you go to liquidIV.com

and use code unplanned at checkout. That's 20% off your first order when you shop superior hydration today using promo code unplanned at liquidIV.com. Can you buy some more? Order now. Okay, it backs the episode. This is a form of survivorship bias called immortality bias because let's think about this rationally. Most people who in Oscars don't win them early in life, they usually win them later in life. So now you have to take into consideration on average if let's say they were 40 years old when they won the Oscar,

what about the 40 years of life that they all lived without winning an Oscar? So once you control for that 40 years of life that both people lived without Oscars and then they actually won their Oscar, did that length of their life is longer than the people who didn't win an Oscar? The answer is no.

Oh, okay. That makes a lot more sense now. So, it was just like a bias in that nature of the immortality. Not taking into consideration the life that they live up until the event that we're studying. You mentioned Big Pharma earlier and I heard from somebody once who was like, yeah, Big Pharma already has the cure to cancer and they're just holding it back because of money. And I'm really curious what your take is on that because like to me, I was like, oh, that Pharma already has the cure to cancer, and they're just holding it back because of money. And I'm really curious what your take is on that.

Because like, to me, I was like, oh, that seems honestly like somewhat logical. I know like Big Pharma makes a freaking crap ton of money. So is there any truth in that? Well, let's talk about it non-medically, because I think this is the best way to talk about it. I'm gonna ask this to you, and I feel like you'll be a better example

than him in this scenario. If a lot of friends of yours that you're gossiping about your friend Becky, if a lot of them know the secret, how long is that secret gonna stay a secret? Never. Right? Because the more people that know a secret,

the less likely it's a secret. So the idea that all of the pharmaceutical industry, which is thousands, tens of thousands of employees are holding on to this secret, because to develop a cancer cure requires tens of thousands of laborers are holding this secret. What are the odds are that this thing is staying secret? First of all, already on the surface,

I'm very skeptical that that's the case. And then what did you just say? Farmers after what? Money. Oh, my God, they don't want money. They make so much money. Here, do you know how much money you'll have? Trillions, trillions.

So like, so they're making money. They're the world's most adapt people at keeping secrets. Like now we're getting into sci-fi conspiracy territory and just forgetting the medical science of it all, it's ridiculous. And then when we think about the medical science of it all, I think about when we fix one problem in healthcare, we create another. So for example, we're helping people live longer than they ever lived before if we look at, you know, 100 years ago, right? We've prolonged life because of some very basic things like antibiotic sanitation, but also some medical breakthroughs,

treatments of certain cancers, viral infections, et cetera, et cetera. So we've done a good job prolonging life. But now what's happening? We're having a spike in neurological degenerative diseases because the brain wasn't meant to live so long. So that while people are living longer, they're developing degenerative diseases

where because they're living so long, there's a whole new crop of diseases that are starting to spike. So in medicine, it's always like whack-a-mole. You fix one problem, you create another. You fix one problem. That's why hyperoptimization doesn't work in healthcare. When someone's like, I can give you this thing

and it's gonna make your hormones so much better. It's like, well, your hormones need to be just right, not better. If you go the other end of the hormones, you're gonna have all these negative effects because when you whack them all one side, something pops up on the other. So ideally it's like you keep it in a balance.

So the idea that if they cure cancer, they're gonna be broke afterwards is ridiculous because we'll have a bunch of other medical conditions they're gonna need to fix. So for those three reasons, I think the whole conspiracy is BS. Yeah. So I've been, you mentioned ice baths earlier, and I've been doing ice baths recently, and I, I actually did a whole week. I did a whole week.

I did a whole week where I ice bathed, and then worked out, and then a couple of days, some of the days the freaking gym had the sauna closed, I was so upset. But I did, I did ice bath, gym, sauna. And I'm pretty sure I have ADHD. I haven't been diagnosed, I'm actually currently getting diagnosed by a doctor. Abby is- He's just put off his pat next to appointment.

I have a theory that everybody with ADHD doesn't even get diagnosed because Abby had it set up the appointment for me. I feel bad. That's true. I was like, it's actually not for me, it's for my husband. I'm not forcing him to do this.

He asked me to make this appointment. He just might have ADHD and can't do it. But the craziest thing is that week where I was cold-plunged, Jim, Sana, I had the best focus that I've had in like years. And I was like, is there some sort of, you're talking about like balance of hormones. Is there something to do with, you know, cold-plunging, working sauna, that helps your body,

you know, fix whatever's wrong up here or help my ADHD get into check and help me focus? Cause I was just like, I thought I was, I was killing it. I was like, man, this week is awesome. Like I felt on top of it. Okay, well, It's impossible. It's impossible.

It's impossible. We have, there's a lot to unpack here. So first this is happening to you, not something we see with the general population. Like, I'm not gonna say like, because this happened to you, I'm gonna recommend this as a form of ADHD treatment. So like, generalizable, no. Did it work for you?

It sounds like it did. And the harms of continuing it are really little. So I would encourage you to keep doing it. Number one, that would be my first take as a doctor. Number two, exercise, great stuff. Sauna, great stuff. Ice baths, eh, whatever, you could take a cold shower, probably get the same benefit,

and the benefits are really, really small. But now, keeping a routine where you're doing the same three things every day, you're getting a lot of benefit from the exercise, You're getting a lot of benefit from the exercise. You're getting a lot of benefit from the sauna, from heating your body up, having that cycle of things happening to your body. Is that helping you maintain some sort of order

that is helping you with your mental health balance? Totally reasonable. But again, not generalizable to the general public. So you think the whole ice bath trend is BS? I think it's BS because it's over promising things that are untrue. The research on it is so weak for the things that it does potentially do. Number one, number two, we don't know how long those effects actually stay. So for example, you take people who have never taken an ice bath,

you put them in the ice bath and you see certain markers in their blood change and you say look what amazing the ice bath is. But will those markers stay a year down the line if you're still doing it? No one really knows and what I know about the human body is that it adapts really well. So the benefit you get from that initially is going to be very different than the benefit you're going to get for a year down the line. Oh, I have noticed that. So the first time I did an ice bath. I was shivering I was like I like couldn't catch my breath. I thought I was gonna pass out. Yeah, cuz I went my buddy's tub who It was 32.7 degrees and

Frigid like and I did it for a whole three minutes for your heart. Yeah. Yeah. Oh wait. Oh can be bad for you I'm gonna get young and healthy oh, can be bad for you. Okay, maybe that's why I told you bad for me. I mean, you're young and healthy, so like, okay, lower risk for you, but it is, it's a huge stress on your heart, especially people doing it who are older. Like, I can't feel my fingers after three minutes. It's funny cause like, I'll, my toddler loves, like when we're taking baths and stuff,

or when I give him a bath, I'll be like, cold water, woo! And he like laughs. So I go cold hands, and I go, woo, and he starts giggling, because my hands are freezing cold after the ice bath. I told you it was bad for my heart, because we were pushing each other in the pool,

and I was like, Matt, I literally can't catch my breath, and I have a really fast heart rate already. I was like, you're probably gonna send me over 200, just by pushing me in the pool. We did this TikTok trend where you like asked each other questions and pushed each other in the pool, but that pool was 50 degrees. It was like 30. It was like, you're probably gonna send me over 200 just by pushing me in the pool. We did this TikTok trend where you like ask each other questions and push each other in the pool. But that pool was 50 degrees. It wasn't like 32.7.

It was pretty cold. It was pretty cold. But I know the protocols, by the way, where it's like, you have to spend this many minutes, this, the temperature exactly, it's like, no. Okay, so what about like, I'm sure you've heard of- Take a cold shower. ...Huberman Lab and like these guys who talk,

like Joe Rogan has been promoting ice baths. So you think where are they getting all this research in? I think that they get that they're they're very excited about preliminary research and they're functioning in a field that is not the field that I function in. I see patients that have real world problems. They can't spend $5,000 on an ice plunge bath from 10x health. Like, these are not realistic situations. And they also have serious problems. They have incredibly high blood pressure. They have incredibly high cholesterol. They have incredibly high diabetes numbers, blood sugars. They're not exercising. They're sedentary. So to talk to them about ice baths is frankly a waste

of time and doing them a disservice because actually Biolain, Lane Norton said this really well on my podcast the other day. If you're trying to pick up as much weight as possible in the form of boulders, would you try and pick up a big boulder and then drop it to pick up little pebbles? No, you take the biggest boulder,

which is the biggest effect. So you think about all those things we discussed earlier, getting your 150 minutes of exercise to diet, to sleep, to mental health, which is already a heavy boulder to carry. It's a lot of things to do. And then maybe you'll throw in a little pebble of the ice bath. Maybe you'll throw in the pebble of the sauna. But at the end of the day, they're pebbles. So when people put such an emphasis on pebbles, come on, let's be realistic about what's happening and what added benefit you're actually giving people because it feels disconnected

from how well we're promoting it. And frankly, I think the big popularity for the cold plunges came from cryotherapy centers. When people used to do cryo, remember that thing was really hot for a while? And then they realized that they're getting people way too cold. It was actually creating some harms in people because they were getting too cold. It was also really expensive to maintain. And they said, wow, we can get a lot of the same benefits

by putting people into a tub and just sell them to the tub instead. So they started doing that. But just take a cold shower. Like that's the thing, the cold shower is gonna do the same thing. With the travel we've been doing, I've been taking cold showers like here in the thing the cold shower. No is gonna do the same thing with the travel We've been doing I've been taking cold showers like here in New York and then back home It's yeah, and the water isn't that cold in Phoenix where we live

But like when I'm in New York or a lot of the water is frigid like it takes my breath away When it goes my head because my head doesn't get wonder when I do a cold plunge But when I'm in the shower goes on my head. Yeah, it's unreal I'm like this is like 33 degree water right now it feels like okay I was not expecting that I thought you're gonna be like there are so many health benefits everyone should cold plunge that's ridiculous what okay why is sauna why is the sauna different is there more research behind the sauna well let me just before we move off the cold-punch thing just tell you something interesting you know how people if they have a fever,

they're like, oh, go into a cold bath. It's gonna do some, you don't need to go into a cold bath to lower your temperature. Just go into a room temperature bath. Because what is room temperature? Colder than your body temperature. Genius. That's why, again, people are just genius. They're like, go into the freezing water and cool it.

It's like, you're gonna put the poor kid into shock. Like, and again, I wouldn't even recommend going into a top to lower your temperature. It's like not really necessary. We also are very fever phobic as a society, which is kind of strange too, because fevers carry benefits. Really? I feel afraid of fever. Actually, yeah.

Like if my kid has a fever, I'm terrified. What's the benefit of having a fever? In a really young child, that's a different story. But for like a healthy adult, if you're sick with a virus and your temperature goes up to 100, 101 and you have no other medical conditions, that's your body fighting off the infection. And by lowering the fever, you're actually weakening your body's ability to fight off the infection, where we've actually seen the research that when you allow a fever to be,

the infection goes away sooner, you have symptoms for less period of time, you're infectious, meaning spreading to other people for a shorter period of time. They're back in the day before we had antibiotics. We used to find that you could treat syphilis by giving people malaria, because we had a cure for malaria,

and get their fevers real high with the malaria, that would fix their syphilis infection, and then you could treat their malaria, and they'd feel better. That's crazy. So fevers are actually like a survival thing. Fevers are a benefit. So many times I have to tell my patients,

like just because you're a little warm, doesn't mean you need to rush to take an antipyretica, anti-fever medication. You are so smart. No, no, no, this is not. The people that are on social media that are good at medical media are oftentimes people that have left the medical field

and wanna just like usually sell out or make some money, but I'm like excited about the actual medicine. And I've gotten good at communicating the things that are way smarter people than me. Have research. I love that you're a practicing doctor, and it's not like you just quit being a doctor and just did social media full time,

because it shows how credible you are and how dedicated you are to the craft. You're actually working with real world patients. Yeah, I mean, I appreciate you saying that. I think it makes me better, because yesterday I was seeing patients, and when I was there, I appreciate you saying that. I think it makes me better because like yesterday, I was seeing patients and when I was there, I know what things they're wanting to know. I understand the hesitations they have.

I understand their mental health struggles. I also get better at learning how to speak with them so that they understand what I'm saying so I can bring that to social media. So I think both worlds actually helped me be more effective in the other world. What about fasting? I've heard too that in addition to cold plunging, I think Joe Rogan or the guy that owns a UFC, I forget. Somebody was saying like, oh if you fast like just every once in a while Autophagy, autophagy, autophagy.

It gets rid of cancer, stuff that can cause cancer and has all these health benefits and to me it made sense because I'm like yeah humans back in the day probably had periods of Time where they didn't have food and so fasting was probably normal and maybe pause right there just on that one statement What did you say humans back in the day had times where they didn't have any food? Okay, where those people healthy? Probably died really uh probably died in their 20s Why are we constantly going back and be like, yo, paleo, this is what they did. 2000 years, that's like, they're like 27. Why are we hyped about it?

We're living to like, past 100 now, and we're like, but back then they did this. It's like, okay. That's cool. Yeah, that's cool that they did that. We also used to bleed people out back in the day as a conformance. That's so crazy to me. Bleaches?

Again, this is not even a medical conversation, just a kind of a logical thing. Oh my gosh. Why are we constantly, like I understand looking at evolution, anthropology is important, but like the idea of the reason why this thing is good is because back then that's how it worked,

is not good medical evidence for me to recommend something. Thank you to Pro's for sponsoring today's episode. Why would you settle for mass produce one size fits all hair care? That's bogus. It's pretty interesting because there's so many things in your life that you're like, you know that have to be specific to you.

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Back to the episode. Is it good for people maybe like every other month or something to do like a one or two day fast to help flush out toxins or cancer-causing stuff? Did you eat today? I did. You're still flushing out toxins. Oh, you're right.

Yeah, so your kidneys, your liver, they're doing a great job. They're keeping you alive. They're flushing out toxins. Your colon is cleansing itself right now. You don't need to get a colonic cleanser, a coffee enema to do that. Like the body's awesome.

Like you don't need any of that stuff. My breakfast? But like if you enjoy it, if it helps you moderate your caloric intake, meaning that like because you're fasting and only eating during eight hours of the day, doing that 16, eight thing, you then eat less calories. Maybe that's a good strategy for you. So really the calories in calories out thing that has been so controversial lately is still very true. It's still a science formula. Now there's other things around it

and it is more nuanced, but it's still true. And if going keto, if doing intermittent fasting, if following some really restrictive diet is what's easiest for you, which I think the evidence shows that it's not because all these restrictive diets, people fail and bounce back and regain the weight. If that's what's easiest for you,

if you love not eating in the morning and If that's what's easiest for you, if you love not eating in the morning and you love eating during an eight hour window, that's do it. Well, I love it. This morning I had a cinnamon dolce tall latte from Starbucks and they had this brand new. Wait, this actually.

And I tried the brand new, it was like maple chicken, egg sandwich, whatever, the breakfast sandwich. That was yummy. Definitely, it was healthy. I love that you, in the beginning of this conversation, were like, I try to eat the healthiest that I can when I eat out. But then I had a maple vanilla dulce latte

with an egg biscuit. Hey, look, we're traveling. Doctor Mark, we're traveling. Have you given up the journey? OK, so maybe I could probably do healthy. Like, how healthy is that? You know, that's Starbucks. I was actually going to ask about your take on like caffeine.

Yeah. Because I feel like we're upset, not we're like as a country we're obsessed with caffeine. We definitely are. We're definitely over caffeinated. Let me answer your question first and then we can go to caffeine. Oh yeah.

Is that unhealthy? The fact that you ate it today doesn't really matter. Okay. That's the true answer. The fact that if you make that part of your lifestyle, I would advise against it. Okay. But the fact that you did it today, who cares? Remember, life's so multifactorial, so many risks, so many things, you ate good.

I heard you mention on your channel that caffeine helps your metabolism. So, is it good to, like having coffee every day? Because sometimes I'm like, oh, I shouldn't have coffee cause I want to help my body just like, you know, wake me up naturally and if I can avoid having an energy drink or a coffee today, I will. So should you make caffeine part of your diet to help metapolis, my guess? Yeah, like caffeine, much like alcohol has had

kind of a weird relationship with healthcare. If you look at decade by decade, the news articles on caffeine, it's like coffee prolongs life 10 years later, coffee shortens life, causes cancer. Coffee doesn't, it's like, let's be honest, what coffee is. Coffee, why we love it is because it has caffeine. That's the primary ingredient, why people reach for coffee.

And in general, caffeine is well tolerated by most people. It gives them a boost of energy, of sensation of energy that they feel more alert, more focused. In fact, do you know what the number one sports supplement that has the most evidence and research behind it is? Whey protein? Nope. Creatine? Come on. Caffeine. Caffeine. That was stupid. Yeah, that was really dumb. Literally That was has an effect on athletic performance and it helps if you take a specific dose before Your athletic endeavor But there's also side effects to caffeine. It can make people feel jittery

It can cause issues with the heart over consumption of caffeine is a problem and the most important thing about caffeine is it disrupts your sleep and of caffeine is a problem. And the most important thing about caffeine is it disrupts your sleep. And we as society, because we're so over caffeinated, not realizing that in order to reduce the amount of caffeine in your bloodstream by half takes six hours, we have it after dinner and then we wonder why we're not waking up feeling well rested because we're really an overindulging in caffeine. People take a pre-workout before their evening workout routine and then they don't sleep well and they're like, I have anxiety. No, you have pre-workout. No, yeah.

That's literally what is going on. And another tricky thing about caffeine is the body builds a pretty quick tolerance to it and then a dependence on it. So you know people who usually can't start their day without coffee, they're like, don't talk to me until I had my coffee? That's a dependence, That's a tolerance.

So what 200 milligrams of caffeine does to you on day one versus on day 780 is gonna be a very big difference. In fact, if you don't have caffeine on day one and you don't have caffeine on day 780, it's gonna be much worse for you because you actually become dependent on the caffeine. So your your performance if you don't get your caffeine actually drops off So if a patient takes a moderate amount of caffeine one to two cups, maybe three cups a day I'm never gonna tell them to stop unless there's a medical reason acid reflux

Palpitation something like that, but if they don't take caffeine, I'm not gonna say it will help your life It will help your metabolism. I wouldn't do that Well, yeah, cuz a lot of from what I've heard it's like 300 milligrams a day as the max you should have 400 Oh, it's 400. Okay, and energy drinks these days are 200 milligrams and coffee is 75 Is a cup of coffee 75? There's a wide range depending on how it's brewed where it's made so I see the range is go from like 70 to 440 yeah Yeah, no. Blonde roast? That's good, I was telling you that. Grande, holy crap, your uncle has that. Two.

Two of those? Prick. And then we wonder why people are struggling. So what's the, when you say moderate, what is in milligram terms? 200, 300. Okay. In fact, for pregnancy,

Yeah. While folks are pregnant, we actually say lower that 400 threshold to the 200, 300. Okay. I had 200 while pregnant, now 300, now that I'm breastfeeding. And that's been, I'm like, I would, I don't think I'll ever need more than 300,

like ever in my life. That would be kind of crazy. Back to the pregnancy topic, we noticed that when Abby was pregnant and then postpartum, and then we got pregnant by surprise, we noticed all of that as a couple started fighting more. And obviously like big life changes, really big life changes, we also moved and so many

things happened. Like what does science tell us about like pregnancies effect? Yeah, pregnancies effect on like mood hormones and just like couple satisfaction. Well, there's the conversation that needs to be had surrounding what baby blues is versus true postpartum depression. So some people will feel down after pregnancy and it might be very short-lived and there's very sizable amount of people and why I say sizable it's an important minority of people will develop postpartum depression and

they don't seek help for it and and they don't seek help for it. And when they don't seek help, that's when the condition gets worse. So I encourage everyone to speak to their doctors if they're even feeling what may be baby blues because it's important to allow an objective person to figure out is this baby blues or is this something else that requires

further medical intervention. The father also has impacts hormonally even we've seen this with some research studies of hormonal shifts. So we've seen testosterone drops before it right before the baby comes after the baby comes and oxytocin you know the cuddle hormone that we always talk about actually starts spiking in the father with spending more time with the baby. That's you know, people are quick to 20, 20 vision Monday morning, quarterback to be like, oh, well, that's so that the father is less aggressive and less seeking sex elsewhere and focusing on childcare. And that's a beautiful theory.

And that's an initial theory, but it's not 100% proven yet. So it's important that we take all of these studies with a great assault, but it does make sense, right? Yeah, that yeah, that makes sense because I've been way more emotional. I Like I don't know when I see little I notice little kids now like when I'm out in public I'm like I didn't notice them before but now I do because I'm so aware of my children and I love them so much So that's crazy that because I've definitely felt a change in me, too

So it's funny that you're saying that oh dad's also experienced some sort of change as well. For sure. It's a very unique situation. And what I think it's cool in that it highlights how our experiences can shape our hormones and our neurotransmitters. And why do I think that's important? Because people will talk about, well, depression is a disease of neurotransmitters. And why do I think that's important? Because people will talk about, well, depression is a disease of neurotransmitters, or mental health is a disease of neurotransmitters, so you have to take a medication. And while there's definitely reasons

why you may need to take a medication, just doing therapy will change your neurotransmitters. The same way that experiencing a baby's birth will change your hormones. So when people say, oh, therapy won't help me, won't fix my chemical problem, it will. It can. Like this is something that happens with our experiences and things outside of just medications. Medications are not the only way to change our biology.

That's really cool. Are there benefits to, you know, I know some people might have like a small group or a community of friends they meet with that might not be therapy. Like is that, are there benefits to that too? I'm sure just like having a strong community probably gives similar benefits to therapy. The number one factor for success and recovery from a mental health diagnosis is a good support system. and recovery from a mental health diagnosis is a good support system. So I make it a habit when I speak to patients

that are going through something is who's your social support? If there is a crisis situation where you're very worried about that you might do something bad, who are you gonna call? What's the phone number? How are you gonna reach them? Is it a friend?

Is it a family member? Is it a mental health specialist? Is it a hotline? And we create that crisis plan in case that those feelings do come up. So the social support system is incredibly important, not even in mental health. It really is all across the board.

Like going to a doctor's office, bringing in a partner who can also hear the information will go a long way to getting better health outcomes. Like single mothers, part of why we speculate that they have worse outcomes, is that there's not a person advocating for them. We even see this bias sort of, we used to say, a mother and a father is of utmost importance of having a child in order for you to have the child to have the best development. Well, it's not even just a mother and the father, it's having two people. It's the

presence of being able to split duties, about being able to work while the other one watches the child, while one is struggling mentally, the other one can help cope, the advocacy. It's a presence of two that actually helps. It's not about just mother and father. I cannot believe how single parents do it. Like now that I've been a parent, it does not make sense.

And I can see why it's so, I can see where things could go wrong because it's really hard even having the two of us and now luckily we have more support, we have more family. When we first had our first kid, we didn't have any family really around but it's incredible to me that there's people out there that raise a kid by themselves. Yeah. Well that's why we were talking about survivorship bias. You'll hear people from like the hustle community. Look, I hustled and that's why I'm successful. That's the reason.

And it's, look, hustling and being prepared is important because luck favors the prepared. Meaning that if you're lucky and you're prepared, you're gonna get a better benefit. But the fact that you had social support is really a form of luck. The fact that the pregnancy happened the way that is also a form of luck.

The fact that your genetics are the way that they are, that you're largely healthy and you have healthy children is a form of luck. So we have to remember when we make all these statements from positions of authority, there's a huge luck component, and then there's things that are under our control, and we should focus as much as we can on the things we can control and then be very grateful for the luck that we've had. It's like that statement, if you

want to go fast, go alone, if you want to go far, go together. Yeah, true too. So just yeah, that community it's really cool. And it's also crazy like from my experience, it was harder when it was just Abby and I with our first, because we didn't have the support, we didn't have family around us, really cool. And it's also crazy like from my experience, it was harder when it was just Abby and I with our first because we didn't have the support, we didn't have family around us. We also were just figuring out how to be parents with no idea what we were doing. And now with two under two, we have family, we have so much more support, and we also knew what to expect. And so it's actually- To some extent. I will say that each baby has

That I thought would be way more prepared in certain aspects like our second baby Just doesn't really like breastfeeding. I was like, I thought we knew how to do this I thought everything was fine, but he just like they throw their they have their own individual personalities that make things more difficult But yeah, thank you to cure ology for sponsoring this portion of today's episode I used to have bad acne and I was very insecure about it. I looked at pictures today and I'm like holy cow how did my acne get that bad? Remember when I had that massive pimple and it I we like photoshopped it out of pictures with me and it was so big. Did it hurt? It did hurt. It was in the middle of your eyebrow. Yeah and I just got sick of it. On our one-year dating anniversary. I was so

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So I'm sure that plays into it too. And we're like, wow, it's like our life is, I feel like we're back. We're like, we're good enough to be pregnant. We made it out of the dark place. Woo-hoo. Well, celebrating those victories together goes a long way in helping you guys feel more bonded.

Cause it's very easy and this happens to couples quite often, after having a baby, whether it's the first or the second, sex goes down. Because a lot of the hormones, like the oxytocin, the cuttle hormone, that you used to get from one another, ends up coming between you and being the caregiver. Oh, that's interesting.

So it's very important that you re-establish that and sometimes you have to force it in order to re-establish it. Meaning like you might not be in the mood now, but then just start with like a foot rub, the power of touch, like that will go a long way to reinstating things because you have to force it. It's almost like fake it till you make it.

And that's also true for motivation. A lot of people think they have to be motivated to do something like, let's say, go to the gym and then they'll have the action, but you actually have to do the action and then you'll get the reward and then the motivation will follow. So again, you're faking it,

you're going to the gym when you don't want to and then you'll enjoy it and you'll start loving it and then you'll be a proponent of it. Then you'll get your friends to do it as well. But unless you take that first step to do it when you don't want to, the motivation's usually not going to come. It's crazy.

I mean, I don't know the numbers off the top of my head, but it's crazy just how, yeah, libido is affected by birth and postpartum and yeah, not just for one person, it's for both couples. And I guess like, could you speak more to that? I guess, just how couples can like try to get their sex life back on track when there's so many big changes with all of that? Yeah, first is from my doctor's standpoint, I wanna make sure nothing medically is going on.

That's causing that to be an issue. So you wanna get your checkups to make sure things are well in that regard. Second is when you think about faking until you make it is you have to be intentional with this. And intentional doesn't just mean the touch and the things we discussed earlier, but also scheduling the time. And it's very difficult to schedule time.

I know both of you have spoken about this openly, but scheduling something as simple as one hour where you have your own time will go a long way to allowing you to feel free. And that's why you'll often hear this even from couples without kids that vacation sex is different than home sex. Why?

Because it's new, it's free. You don't have the responsibility. The phone is not a thing. So you need to fake that vacation, even if you can't go on vacation, by giving yourself a slotted time. And when you do that, you'll raise the chance of it naturally happening, but you have to be intentional with it. It's funny that you're saying that because I cannot, I could, I can even count the number of times that like we've, we've gone to, you know, have some alone time and immediately

as soon as like close come off, you hear on the baby monitor, it's like, what? Like seriously. It's like a movie. Yeah, it doesn't make sense. It's like they know. It's like they're reading our minds. Well they're like, why are you taking my oxytocin?

Exactly. I want it. Exactly. No, it's like they know somehow and I'm like, and I don't believe in that. Like I don't think my kid knows, but it happened so many times. It's like they have to read my mind.

Like they have to have some sort of, you know, sixth sense about this because it literally did not make any sense. And then like, who wants to do it when you're hearing your baby cry the whole time? So then obviously then you can't, so you go to help the kid and then yeah, it's just- But I feel about people that co-sleep with their children.

I'm like, how in the world does that work? Oh yeah. I get that. We haven't even talked about co-sleep with their children, I'm like, how in the world does that work? Where did I get that? We haven't even talked about co-sleeping. I am so, cause we actually, we never did that with our kids. I mean, there are times where I'd fall asleep with like my son on my chest. I don't like roll around at all when I sleep, but that would just be like in the early morning

if I'm like, I'm so tired, you just woke me up. You need an extra 30 minute nap. I need an extra 30 minute nap. But I think like co-sleeping has been talked about. I know I'm just like throwing that on you right now. But I guess what should people be aware of when it comes to co-sleeping with their newborn? Yeah. So the data when I was coming out of my medical education was really surrounding a condition

called SIDS, which is sudden infant death syndrome. And co-sleeping increases the risk of that because what happens when you're going through a pregnancy, either alone or with a partner, you're tired, you're fatigued. You may be sleeping at weird hours. That's when you're most likely to twitch. That's when you're most likely to sleep so deeply because you're so exhausted

and you can cut off the baby's ability to breathe and that could be fatal in some cases. And back to the sex thing too, I'm curious, is there like a number that like couples should do it? Yeah, 47 is usually what I recommend. Okay. I've seen articles like the perfect amount, and like do this, and so I don't know,

because then I've also read articles like, oh, it's possible to do it too much. And so I didn't know if there was like a set like this is the natural guideline. I wish because then medicine would be a lot easier. Oh, well, you're not up to your seven times this week. Yeah. Yeah. That's that's so funny.

Yeah, that that makes sense, though. It's not even just individuals are different. Couples are different. Yeah. And like what sex to one couple is different than what sex is to another couple. So like it's such a diversity. Like being a doctor that has seen and treated tens of thousands of patients, probably 10,000 patients, you've seen such a wide variety of humans and what

humans enjoy and how humans interact with one another, how they view their health, how they view the healthcare system, that you're like to speak with certainty here is like, the only thing I can be certain of is that there's way more I don't know than I actually know, even though it sounds like I'm answering all your questions. But I'm usually just answering your questions with more questions.

I'm actually really impressed though, because I don't know how you keep all that information in your brain. Like I'm like, do you just like go on your computer at home and just like, let's look up research today and just like read it for fun? Well, a lot of times I follow on social media the major guideline organizations.

Like for me, I'm a family medicine provider, which means that I do obstetrics. I don't practice it now because my schedule doesn't permit to it, but during my training, I delivered 30 plus babies. Gynecology, I still practice. So like Pap smear is mirrors preventive care things like that But I also see children as young as newborns

They're coming in for certain weight checks or things like that to a hundred one-year-olds That's kind of the beauty of what I do But we also have this organization called the American Academy of Family Physicians that puts out statements The American College of Obstetrics and Gynecology, ACOG, they put out great guidelines. And then the one that I follow the most is called the United States Preventive Service Task Force. They put out guidelines for screening tests

on which ones show benefit versus ones that we shouldn't be doing or there's insufficient evidence to recommend because screening is important. If we can get ahead of a problem and prevent it, that's great, but we also need to be honest that in many times we can't do that perfectly yet. So we shouldn't rush to start screening people

for every condition, because we may not have a good answer. And clearly you're super passionate about all this. What made you decide that you wanted to be a doctor? I think it was early exposure to the field. So I came to the United States when I was six from Russia. My father was a doctor in Russia, but then had to redo his medical education here

in his 40s, in a new language. And he had to do the whole process, med school, residency. So it was really hard. But I was also of age now that I, you know, I'm nine, 10 years old, I'm watching my dad do it versus most kids are really young when their parents are going through the education system,

so they don't see it. So I saw it, I was really curious about it, excited about it. My father actually was like, maybe you shouldn't do this because there's a lot of healthcare system issues plaguing us right now, and I think it's gonna get worse. He was right.

But I fell in love with it, and I thought it was a perfect match of something I was passionate about, and I was talented in it talented in terms of my communication with patients and wanting to learn about the body, being able to hold information. And I think when you match passion with ability, that's when you get kind of the best outcomes for your career. I'm curious too what your vices are because you know you know what the research says, you know what's good for you. But I'm curious if you're like,

smoking a six pack here or there. I don't know, I'm like, is there something where you're like, I know what the research is, but I still do this. Oh, that's interesting. So first of all, I have to say doctors are the biggest hypocrites on the planet. Yeah, they're just like this.

Just because we know the evidence on something doesn't mean we follow it. And also, if I tell my patient the evidence, I don't expect them to make changes. I just want them to be aware of risks. That's really what my goal is. So just because I'm aware of risks doesn't mean I don't do things.

I think the worst one is the fact that I'm a professional boxer now. That's right, I saw that you boxed somebody. Yeah, we said, that's really cool. I have two boxing matches. Do you have more upcoming right now? I'm trying to get one scheduled. Yeah, I fought on Showtime's paper views. That's ridiculous.

Wow. As a professional. One draw you do. Against a guy with 20 plus fights, he's a UFC fighter. And I unfortunately lost on the doctor's scorecards, but it's not something I would ever recommend to patients because head injuries and all that is terrible. But you know, I've...

You did it. I know what the risks are and I'm accepting of them and not recommending it to the public I'm saying go take a box in class hit the bag work with the trainer. That's super healthy But don't become a professional fighter. Yeah, it's probably the head trauma I mean I think about Mike Tyson and just like he has probably been punched in the face I can't even count how many times exactly so I don't recommend have you felt I guess I you felt any side effects from boxing in getting punched in the face? When I was in heavy sparring days, headaches for sure, it is a thing and I hate those.

So I try and limit full context sparring, but you need to do it if you want to be a professional. I mean, look, we as humans all take calculated risks. When we drive, there's a risk, when we cross the street, there's a risk. People who solo rock climb, I don't know if you saw the movie with Alex. Free solo. Yeah, free solo.

I saw the one where like I died at the end, it was so sad. Oh, I didn't see that one. Was that in free solo? There's another, Oh, it's about to start. Different movie, yeah. But see like everyone's accepting of risks, right?

Like they're aware that these things can happen, but they want to push the boundaries because you only get one life and you make your choices with it. As long as it's you making the choice, we have full body autonomy and that's one of the main principles of healthcare, of being a doctor. Patient has autonomy and you first do no harm. So I never recommend an intervention unless I'm certain that it's not going to cause

more harm than good. And then once I do recommend it, I allow the patient to have their autonomy and decide what they actually want. And what are you hoping to accomplish with the boxing? Is that like a childhood dream that you had to be a professional boxer one day? Yeah, pretty much. I always wanted to be a professional athlete. And then it's actually a sad story, kind of probably a downer for this convo.

But when I was in med school, I lost my mom to cancer. And that was a rough part of my journey. But I think it shaped me to be a better doctor, to be more empathetic with my patients. Because having to tell doctors to stop chest compressions on your mom at age 20, 21 is not easy. And I think I'm a better doctor as a result. But after that, I was in a dark place. I moved back in with my dad, traveling two hours a day

to go to school because I no longer live near school. And I said, I need to do something to get out of this funk, to do the action instead of wait for the motivation, right? To fake it. So I faked it and got a group on for a boxing class and went to this boxing class, started boxing as a hobby, then had my first fight against a YouTuber to 10,000 people in the audience, hundreds of thousands at home, won that, gave that money to the Ukrainian cut war conflict that I got paid for that fight,

then got an offer to fight on Showtime Pay-Per-View under the Jake Paul Anderson Silva on their undercard, got paid $125,000 for that, donated that to the Harlem Boys and Girls Club. So like a lot has come from this very unique journey and I feel like I'm very lucky that I've had this opportunity I'm like I'm gonna press this luck as much as I can and it's a really cool Experience because it also makes me a better doctor too when they come in and they're they're talking about a musculoskeletal injury Whereas before I'll be like oh, it's fine. It's not that big of a deal

But if it's preventing them from doing something they love, I know how much it means to them. So I'm much more empathetic in that regard. That's cool that you're very focused on philanthropy too. Because that's actually how I found you. Really? I think it was a Ryan Tray hand video where I think you donated to Feeding America.

Yeah, we gave about $100,000. Yeah. And so I know that you'd also donated to, you said the Harlem Boys and Girls Club. And then also to the, to Ukraine. So very, very cool that you're very focused on philanthropy. Do you just, have you always been that way? Have you always, as a kid, just wanted to give back?

In 2015, when I had my little viral moment of fame, the first thing that I did was, how do I do something positive with this? I launched my own foundation called Limitless Tomorrow. Like I did all the paperwork myself. I got it filed as a 501c3. We've given out some incredible scholarships to people, not just to go to school,

but we also gave a hefty amount of money that we raised through fundraising efforts to the creation of a medical tool for those who have ear and nose deformities, either through trauma or they're born with them. And this tool greatly simplified the surgical process so that this surgery can be performed in other countries where they don't have a specialized techniques.

And that was only made possible with the help of social media. And even our Patreon, like some people have Patreon's that they collect money from their fans. We have a Patreon where if you pay $9.95 or whatever it is to be a member, that money every month gets donated wherever the viewer choose. So we have a live stream, they nominate three charities, we talk about them, and then they all vote and we see where the money goes each month. And I think like with all the stuff

we've been doing, we've donated already like seven figures, so it's pretty exciting to be able to do that. That's really cool. It's really fun to be able to do that. That's good for you. It's really fun to be able to do that. I want to continue to do more of that with our channel and so I'm just like really inspired by you and other people like Ryan who have like found ways to- Ryan's a man. I know but it's I love it because like I love being an entertainer. I love making entertainment but it's so cool when you can like entertain and do good at the same time. You had a fight entertaining,

made all this money for charity. I love that. Like it's just like a double whammy. It's just, it's the perfect combo. So, very inspired by you. Thank you for making the journey out today to be on the podcast. And yeah, I just learned so much today.

So I really appreciate you coming out. Awesome, I'm glad. I always like when people are excited to learn. Thank you for being as engaged as you were. Because sometimes you go on conversations and people are like, what do you do? It's exciting to have people be excited. I learned a lot.

I learned so much. My brain's about to explode. So he also had a check-out. Dr. Mike, he has his own podcast, The Checkup, right? Yes, The Checkup. As well as his main YouTube channel, you guys can find him on YouTube, as well as I'm sure Instagram and so many other places. And yeah, thank you for doing what you do. thank you for especially the pho the philanthropy you do love that of course awesome And you guys will give you my number afterwards. You can any medical question. I'm all yours. Thank you so much

I was saying that she's like she was like is he married because like whoever married some like you Having somebody having somebody that you're married to that can just be like, oh, the kid has this problem, yeah, like do this. Especially with kids, like I'm always tempted to message our doctor, I'm like, I'm probably annoying the heck out of them, but if they were in your house. Yeah, you got the good looks, you've got the credentials, like let's wipe this guy up.

Yeah, please. My brother just had a baby and he's not technically my brother, but he had a baby and constantly they're calling me and they're like, what do we do in this situation? And most of the time it's me just giving reassurance and things to look out for that I would be concerned for. So a lot of what being a doctor is where it's beneficial is the triage aspect of when is it serious?

When should we go? Or where should we go? Should we go to urgent care, primary care, emergency room, that kind of guidance really helps. And I feel like it's easy enough that I can take some time on my day to help. So. Well, Dr. Mike, thank you so much.

We'll let you get you. I think I have another podcast to go film, so. Thank you so much. Awesome, thank you. And as always, we say peace out and just hear. Three, two, one. Peace out, dudes.