The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby - Kailyn Lowry on 'Teen Mom 2', Getting My Tubes & Parenting 7 Kids

Episode Date: September 11, 2024

Kailyn Lowry, from '16 and Pregnant' and 'Teen Mom 2,' joins us to discuss her journey through teen pregnancy, raising 7 kids, and her decision to get her tubes cut. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp, Huggies & Green Chef. BetterHelp: Visit https://BetterHelp.com/unplannedpodcast today to get 10% off your first month. Huggies: Learn more at https://Huggies.com. Green Chef: Go to https://greenchef.com/unplannedclass for 50% off your first box + 50 FREE Credits with ClassPass! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When your celebration of life is prepaid in advance, it becomes a gift from you to your family later, because no one should have to plan for a loss while they're experiencing one. Paying in advance protects your loved ones and gives you the peace of mind you deserve. Let us help you plan every detail with professionalism and compassion. We are your local Dignity Memorial provider. Find us at DignityMemorial.ca. I did not know how sex worked until I was having it. Oh wow. That was never a conversation you had with your parents or any adult before.

No, never. No. I was watching 16 and Pregnant and I was like maybe if I tell my story that part would like really prevent other girls from putting themselves in situations where they could become pregnant When you were younger, did you ever think one day I want to have seven was that zero? I did not want any children I've had every single birth imaginable. I've had epidural no epidural home birth hospital birth medicated unmedicated I had my tubes cut out and we both felt immediate regret And they even said that on like the side effects. It's in the list.

It's like you may have regret. We sat down with Kailin Lowry from the hit TV show 16 and Pregnant and Teen Mom 2. For Kailin, growing up was by no means easy. Her mom was an alcoholic and Kailin's boyfriend's parents took custody of her when she first became pregnant at 16. Now after giving birth to seven children, she's navigated everything from co-parenting to infertility. We talk about why she can't move out

of the state of Delaware, if she'll get married, and so much more, all on today's episode. This episode of Unplanned Podcast is brought to you by Huggy's Skin Essentials. Baby butts rejoice! New Huggy's Skin Essentials are here! A. New Huggy Skin Essentials are here. A brand new line of dermatologist approved diapers, wipes and pull ups training pants,

all designed with baby's sensitive skin in mind. What's up dudes. And welcome back to the Unplanned podcast. We're with Kale Lowry. Can we just give it up? Oh yeah. Can we just give it up? Can I clap for myself?

Yeah, clap for yourself. As you should. Honestly, you need to clap for yourself because you are a mom to seven kids I don't know how you do that. That is I don't know either. I just do it You know what? I mean, you just go with the flow you live you thrive in the chaos and you know what I mean? Yeah, what else can you do? Wait, so what are their ages? So we have isaac is 14. Lincoln is 10 Lux is 7 creed is 4 rio is 1, and the twins are 9 months. Oh my gosh. You have 9 months old twins. You look amazing.

Oh, thank you. You look very rested. I actually just scheduled an appointment with one of the plastic surgeons. Oh gosh. I was like, hold on, I need a mommy makeover real quick. But then he canceled, or wanted to reschedule, and then I couldn't because I'm only here for this and that. So then I was like, all right, we'll just. Oh, so it's here. Someone here and there's.

Oh, no way. Yeah, yeah. But then it didn't work out, but it's fine because I'm here. Wow. That's crazy. Yeah. How are you doing? I just, I don't know.

We just do it. You know what I mean? I think because I've used to chaos my whole life that I just was kind of thriving in it that I just perpetuated the chaos truthfully. That's amazing. Yeah. You're balancing all that and your career and-

Trying. And while you're here right now, who's with the kids while you're in Arizona? Elisha. Okay. Nice. Yeah. So he has them. So the older ones will go with their dad.

Okay. And then my younger three are with him, so he has them. It's non-traditional for sure and probably not ideal for a lot of people, but I just know the schedule's like the back of my hand, so I make it work somehow. Did you, like when you were younger, did you ever think, man, one day I wanna have seven? Like is that, was that ever an idea?

No, I wanted zero. Oh, you wanted zero? Yeah, I didn't want any children. Actually? Actually, I did not want any children. I was like, I'm not built for motherhood. I don't know how to talk to children. Like even now, I have a really hard time talking to other people's kids, cause like, I'm like, can I talk. I don't know how to talk to children. Like even now I have a really hard time talking to other people's kids. Cause

like, I'm like, can I talk to them like adults? Cause I talk to my own kids, like an adult, like I'm like, you know, this is the schedule. This is what we're doing. I kind of like talk to them, like we're here. You know what I mean? So when I talk to my friends, kids, I'm like, am I being mean? But like it's, I'm not trying to be mean. I just don't know how to talk to them, you know? I never wanted this. This is just business. That's so funny. That's how Abby's mom talks to our kids. They're older than they are.

And I think that's so good because I feel like it just brings them up to this new level where they have to mature and they have to like our son talks so much. He's only two. Yeah. But I still want them to have a childhood, right? So like I still want to do like the fun stuff, but I talk to them like it's not for everybody. And I get that. But I don't do like the baby talk.

So it's fine for those that do. But I think I'm just wasn't good with kids before I had them So this is what I know What point did it switch for you? I got pregnant as a teenager. I was like, oh, I guess here we go And then once I had one I was like I grew up an only child So I was like I can't just have him as an only child cuz I hated it really I was like, oh so I guess This is what we're doing. So I guess we're having six more. So I well Yeah, I don't think that was ever the plan. But I was like, Oh, so I guess this is what we're doing. So I guess we're having six more. So I, well, yeah, I don't think that was ever the plan, but I was like, all right, here we go. And I love it though. Like I love it so much. I was just telling Kristen before we came in here and was like, literally can't

picture my life any other way at all. That's really sweet. Yeah, I love it. It's so fun. It's kind of cool how life works that way. We're like, maybe something didn't go according to the plan you had, but then you end up loving it anyway. Oh yeah. You know, cause that's literally why we call this

the unplanned pregnancy. I mean, we had an unplanned pregnancy and it's, and now it's the best. Like our boys are so close and just seeing them play together every day, melts my heart. It's the best. It's like, like you're saying, it's like, it was always meant to be that way.

We just didn't know it. Exactly. It's always meant to be this way. And I,'t know it. Exactly. It's always meant to be this way. And truthfully, if I didn't get my tubes cut out this last time, I probably would have had another one if I'm being honest. So I just kept going at this point, but I don't I don't love the whole, like older ones raise the younger ones thing. And so we have it set up right now where it's like,

I don't really ask the older kids for help at all because they want them to all have their childhood. And, you know, I want them to express interest on their own to like have connections with their siblings and stuff. But as long as we could do it ourselves as parents, I would have had another one. But you know, getting pregnant at such a young age, did you feel like the public school system failed you as far as like sex education? I think parenting was failed a little bit and then also I mean I did take um I think it was like sixth grade there was like the health class where

it was like sex ed yeah but I don't remember them ever touching on pregnancy I only remember the STD part really so I don't think that like pregnancy was ever something that I was like thought could happen you know you think you're, you know what I mean? So I only remember the STD part. And I think it was like one week of that. You know what I mean? So did you not know like how pregnancy happened? Truthfully, I did not know how sex worked until I was having it.

Oh wow. Like the time I had it. Yeah, I had no idea. And I really only did it because I had a girlfriend that was like doing all kinds of things. And I felt like, oh my God, like I'm behind, like should I be doing this? And so it was very yikes. And that was never a conversation you had with your parents or any adult before?

No, never. Really? Never. Like I truly did not know what it was until I was physically doing it for the first time. That's crazy. It's so interesting hearing that because like Abby and I, we both, you know, we love our parents. We're fortunate to have good relationships with our parents. And what's interesting is like my parents,

we had the talk when I was a kid. Like they, yeah, they, we had the talk. I understood how all that works, but like Abby ended up learning from her friends. And it's just like, it definitely influences the way it's like, okay, how do I want to teach my kids about this? Because yeah, I don't want them to end up in a situation where, you know, they're 16 and pregnant because that's not ideal for any 16 year old. Right?

100%. I don't even know. My mom, I remember I was dating this guy in like ninth grade. His mom called my mom to see if I could sleep over on a school night, mind you. And my mom was like, oh yeah, she's on birth control, which I wasn't. And I went and slept at my boyfriend's house. And it was just like, yeah, I mean. That's when you were 16? I think ninth grade, I must have been 14. Wait, the boyfriend's mom called your mom to get permission. Mm-hmm, for me to sleep over.

Yeah. And my mom was like, yeah. And she even acknowledged the fact that that would be happening by saying that you were on birth control. Yeah. That is so wild. Yeah, my mom waved to me out the door, and they picked me up.

And I went to her, I went to their house and I slept over. Wow. And your mom had no conversation with you. No. Didn't like walk you through, hey, if this happens, do this. No. This is okay, this isn't okay.

Do you have conversations like that with your 14, like how does that look different now that you're the mom? I mean, I, and I think that it gets a little controversial with me and like my parenting with like my fan base and you know, my followers, because I think I am so open with my kids and I always want them to think they can come to me and know that they can come to me about anything. And so I talked to my 14 year old about it all the time. Like, you know, he tells me he comes

home from school and he'll tell me stuff that like his friends say or what they're doing and things like that. And I gently like kind of talk to him about it without him really realizing that I'm like kind of lecturing him. You know what I mean? Like I do it in like a dialogue so he can ask me questions, but I'm also kind of like planting the seeds. You know what I mean? He thankfully has not shown or expressed any interest

in that and neither has my 10 year old, like just not interested in girls or anything like that. So I'm like, okay, I think that it's okay and we're gonna be fine, but it is really scary to think about like kids just, I was his age when I was having sex. You know what I mean? Like I can't imagine he's mature in so many ways, but also so immature that I can't even imagine my 14 year old having sex. Do you think you were more mature at that age?

Absolutely not. Yeah, absolutely not. I think that in some ways I had to, my mom was an alcoholic and I only met my dad when I was 17, I think. So I, I think that I was mature in some ways, but not in a sexual respect and I didn't know what was going on with my body. I didn't even know what my period was when I got it. I had no clue. So I was kind of in the dark about so many things, but in other ways had to grow up. But I feel like my son is more well-rounded, my older son.

And so I don't have to worry about those things with him. We just keep the conversation going. I feel like you can tell that, just watching your interactions with yourself. You guys seem friends in a way. I am so careful about the friend thing, you know what I mean? Because I feel like I'm their parent first and I want them to come to me.

But it kind of irks me a little bit when people are like, oh, my little best friend. And I'm like, no, that's not your best friend. That's your child. Be friends later. And so I feel like now that he's going into high no, that's not your best friend. That's your child. Be friends later. And so I feel like now that he's going into high school, we can start to be friends, but always his mom first. Yeah, I think I can tell,

I think I say friend more in the sense that you can tell that he's so comfortable talking with you and that you do talk to him like he is older than he is, but not in an inappropriate way. Just in a way like a mutual respect type of way. And honestly holding them to a higher expectation when you talk to them like that and not like a child. But I really admire that too because it can get messy

when you're too buddy buddy with your kids. You're like, there's expectations. For sure, and I've seen it. You know what I mean? I'm sure you guys have seen it too. Or even on social media with other, with everything being so public with just anybody you follow on socials. You're like, wait a minute That's not something that I would do or you know what I mean? Yeah. Okay your mom

Did she have you when she was a teenager? No, she had me I think 26. Okay, but she's a raging alcoholic So it's one and she admits like you don't have to edit any of this out Like she knows she's aware and she's fine with it I mean, she's probably not fine with it, but it is what it is. But yeah, no, she had me when she was 26 and that was the only nine months. I think she was maybe sober one other time after that.

And so I don't necessarily know like what that whole thing was about. I guess just like an unplanned pregnancy. And growing up in that household, like did you have to drive your mom places when you were a kid because Like she wasn't able to oh, no, she just drove me well while she was drunk Oh, yeah, yeah car accidents forgetting to pick me up like oh, yeah the whole nine or I just didn't live with her I would live with other people she dropped me off and not pick me up for days weeks. Whatever

What was her upbringing like like that? She's so Oh, really? Yes. And so it's so, and I get so nervous. Actually, my oldest son just asked me, he's like, do you ever worry about like, what's going to happen to one of us as, as we get older? Like if one of us, one of us isn't like a productive member of society. And I'm like, I literally think about that all the time. It makes me so nervous because I see how my mom, like my, my mom's family is very well-to-do. Her older brother's a doctor. And just very well-to-do. A good family, they died while they were married. My grandparents were married when they passed away. And so it was a very, they built their own house

and just had property. It was just a good family. And so I don't understand how all of that kind of happened. But with the upbringing you had, were your grandparents stepping in to try to- No, my mom moved me away from them. Oh, she did? Yeah. So I lived around my grandparents probably until I was like 11 ish or 12. And then I was completely maybe like three hours from them. Oh, I guess four hours, four hours from them. So I never really saw them again

after that. That's so sad. Yeah, it's kind of sad. That is sad. I laugh about it now because what else am I gonna do? Yeah. Yeah. Do you currently have a relationship with your mom? Do your kids have a relationship with her? No, the last time I saw my mom was seven years ago and she has only met the older two.

So she, I would imagine that she probably knows like maybe if it comes up on her feet or anything that I had more kids, I never oh wow yeah I don't I don't even know where she lives so if she sees anything that I'm doing it's probably online or someone shows her maybe. Wow do you like do you text or do you. I don't have her phone number she doesn't have my phone number. No way was that a boundary you set in place because of. Was that a boundary you set in place because of past? Yeah, it's just one of those, like I used to, when I was living with her growing up, I would get this like, you know when you get anxiety and you have that like pit in your stomach that's like, oh my God, something is about to be wrong.

That's how I'd go home from school every single day. So because I was like never knowing what I was going to walk into. And so when I got pregnant, she signed custody over to my boyfriend at the time's parents when I was 16 and I lived with them. And then that was kind of pretty much the end of our relationship. I think from there it was like, okay, this is really done. You know what I mean?

And I think that that was too like an excuse for her to kind of wash her hands clean of like her, all of her parental responsibilities. At least- Like you becoming pregnant, she was like- Okay, I'm done. Like my job here is done. She's got her own kid.

Like I can walk away and not have a guilty conscience about it because she's like, okay, she's got her own stuff. You know what I mean? Was it because she was like upset or? I mean, what could she be upset about? She literally set me up to get pregnant. You know what I mean? Like she'd kind of never guided me,

never told me about a period, never told me about sex, she never did any of that and then was like, okay with me sleeping at my boyfriend's house. That's so, I did not realize that she signed over custody. Yeah I don't think they showed that on 16 and pregnant. I can't remember if they showed that or not. I feel like maybe in a deleted scene or something or maybe I just have it like in my mind but yeah I mean she just was like and was that her idea? Did she just bring that up one day? Hey I have this you know plan for you to be under the custody of your boyfriend's parents. Like how did that come up?

Don't quote me on this, but I think his parents brought it up. Almost like if she's going to be living here, like, and something goes wrong. I don't know that for sure. But if I remember correctly, I think that's kind of what happened where they were like, if something, if she needs something, like we're going to have to take care of this. So and I think they presented it to her and she was like, oh, okay, if I remember correctly. How did that make you feel at the time? Or did-

There was a scene, it still haunts me. She's like, absence makes the heart grow fonder. And I think that's about like love, you know what I mean? Like in a relationship, but she used it about me. Cause I was like desperately trying to spend time with her. And I was like, wow. And I think now too, like it's been seven years, but I still have a really spend time with her. And I was like, wow. And I think now too, it's been seven years,

but I still have a really hard time with it because there are so many milestones that happen as a mom or just in life that you just want your mom. And it sucks. And sometimes I'm more emotional about it than others. And sometimes I'm like, I don't regret my decision and I think it is good the way it is. But other times I'm like, damn, I just want my mom.

You know? And it's just something innate about that. Yeah, like you have a relationship with your mom, right? So like, could you picture your life without her? I just can't, you know what I mean? And I can't ever imagine doing that to my own kids. Yeah, do you have a figure in your life that kind of stepped in in that way or?

No. That's tough. I've had like a few growing up, like here and there, whoever had custody of me. One time my neighbor had custody of me. I was a freshman in high school. I kind of looked up to her, but I wouldn't say that she was a mother figure. Wow.

How do you go from having so much instability in your teens to where you're at now? I'm sure that's such a loaded question but like as you slowly start to create stability in your own life, like Did you have it pull inspiration from people or were you just like you hit a rock bottom or you're like? I got to do something different. How did that begin? I don't know I feel like you could go down two different paths like you can look at your parents as the example that you want to be Just like or you can look at it as like okay there everything I don't want to be just like, or you can look at it as like, okay, they're everything I don't want to be. And I think subconsciously, it was like, I want to do all the things my parents didn't do. Like I don't drink, I don't do drugs, I've never experimented with drugs, you know what

I mean? So like, I think I went down just the complete opposite path. And I don't really know why or how it worked out that way. But even now, like I still, obviously, I have four kids dads. So that's a lot. And so I think in some ways I did perpetuate the cycle where like my mom had like seven husband husbands or something like that and different men in and out. And so I think there I did repeat the cycle a little bit. And and I do worry sometimes like I people either love it or hate it where like I went from an apartment and I move a lot because any time I get the chance to kind of like

upgrade I do because I worked really hard for this and if all my kids can have the same, their own bedrooms, I wanna move into a house that has that. So I think in some ways the cycle is still there. So it's a loaded question. I don't know how I got here though. I think just trying to be as stable as I can, I think is maybe just like a subconscious thing.

Do you think like, obviously having kids young probably played a major role in that? Yeah. And like, in what ways did finding out you were pregnant at you were 16? Yeah. How did that change your life? So I would judge women or girls that I saw

that were pregnant because I would be like, what are you gonna do with your life? Like, do you not have goals? Are you not gonna go to college? And I think that when I would be like, what are you going to do with your life? Like, do you not have goals? Are you not going to go to college? And I think that when I got pregnant myself, it made me realize, OK, it's going to be harder, but I can still do all those things. And so I kind of ate my own thoughts, ate my own words, you know what I mean? And I was like, OK, I have to. This is my like I think I tried smoking. I was smoking weed, not like big time drugs.

But at that time, I was like, I have to stop that. I have to get a job. I have to do all these things and get myself in order. So I think definitely knowing that I was responsible for another life, I needed to get my life together. But outside of that, it was a huge change. It was a lot of changes in such a short time that I was like, okay, we gotta figure out what we're gonna do so that I don't end up how my mom is.

Does that make sense? Like not even like the drugs and alcohol thing, but like the instability. So I was like, I don't end up how my mom is. Does that make sense? Like not even like the drugs and alcohol thing, but like the instability. So I was like, I don't want that. So that's when I did everything to try to, and then I applied for the show without anyone knowing. And I was like, let me just do that, because I didn't know what it could do for me.

Like I had no idea, but I was like, maybe like I have to try something. So you applied, I didn't know how that like came about because I feel like it could be sketchy if like they had approached you, like it have to try something. So you apply. I didn't know how that came about, because I feel like it could be sketchy if they had approached you. It had to definitely be. Oh, yeah. I know one of the girls saw a listing,

or one of the parents or the girls had seen a listing on Craigslist. Do you guys remember Craigslist? That's so weird. So that was the first, I believe that was the first, the original, like Macy, Kaitlyn, Amber, and who am I, Farrah. I think they had like ads, and maybe even for my season of Girls,

but I remember being pregnant and I was watching the 16 and Pregnant, the first whatever. Oh, so you had watched it. Yeah, but I was already pregnant. So I was like, oh, like, what is this? So I go on MTV.com and it was like now casting. And I was like, all right, let me send this little paragraph and I did it. And then I got a call and was like, what the heck am I gonna do? And I still didn't tell anyone because I was like now casting and I was like, all right, let me send this little paragraph and I did it.

And then I got a call and was like, what the heck am I gonna do? And I still didn't tell anyone because I was like, they're not gonna pick me. So it was just, I'm just doing this for shits and giggles really at this point. And then here we go, full circle into what became Teen Mom, yeah.

So at the time, like watching that show, how do you think like, what was your perception watching the show and being pregnant? Like, were you like, this is gonna be okay? Did it give you peace of mind? Or were you more like overwhelmed at what was going to be happening in your life?

With the exception of Caitlin, I was like, they're not really showing what it's like to have nothing. I think a lot of the girls came from pretty good families. They had like, you know, a good relationship with their parents or they, you know, came from fairly good families. They had like, you know, a good relationship with their parents, or they, you know, came from fairly stable households. And I was like, they're not really showing, and actually what they didn't show is that

my mom actually got evicted that same week, so I actually didn't have a place to live, so I was kind of forced to live with my boyfriend's parents at the time. So when I wrote in, I was like, maybe if I tell my story about like, how it doesn't always start like, from a good family and things like that

Maybe that part would like really prevent other girls from putting themselves in you know situations where they could become pregnant so that's That was the beginning of teen 16 and pregnant for me. That's wild Yeah Wild ride. And the draw for you like was there some promise of hey we'll pay you some money if you're on the show like why did you want to apply? I think really just telling the story of like where I came from nothing like literally nothing and I know that there are so many girls that come from nothing and then they maybe accidentally or by chance or you know whatever the case may be they get themselves into a position where they

could get pregnant and I just thought maybe if I told this part where you come from nothing and you get pregnant it's not great you know what mean? So I thought maybe that they actually didn't pay, it was like $5,000 before taxes. So it wasn't anything. I mean, I think I bought a car with that. I didn't have a car. I got my license on the show. It was like a deleted scene.

So I didn't even have my license or anything. That must be so inspiring too, for people to see that and see you go from nothing to now thriving, you have multiple podcasts, and you, I don't know, are clearly just successful in your career, and so, I mean, that must be so cool for people that watch the show to now see you killing it. I hope so, because sometimes I think it gets lost. I think people just remember right now,

or maybe like the last five to seven years, they don't really remember, they didn't show a whole lot about where I came from five to seven years, they don't really remember. They didn't show a whole lot about where I came from. So I just, I don't know, I hope, I hope that people are like, okay, we could, if she can do it, then I can do it. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. We had a BetterHelp appointment today, right before this. And it was great.

I don't know if you guys have considered ever going to therapy, but seriously, like if, if you're not on the therapy train, what are you doing? People are so good about like taking care of their physical health these days and look at Abby, like she's been a freaking star, like encouraging me to go to the gym more because she goes to the gym like five days a week. But what if you put as much time into your mental health as you did your physical health? And that's why I think therapy is really important. I think there's a lot of talk about therapy nowadays, but I think sometimes it can be overwhelming and like, okay, yeah, I think I need that. I think it'd be good for me, but how do I get started? That's like a very overwhelming

thought, but BetterHelp makes it super, super easy. It's designed to suit you and your schedule. It's very flexible. It's entirely online. They basically just match you with a therapist, depending on your specific needs. Like you can say, if you want someone that's older, or if you want Christian therapy, or if you want so many different types that's older or if you want Christian therapy or if you want so many different types of things or if you want couple therapy like we had and then they'll set you with a therapist but you can switch at any time with no additional cost so you find a match that works for you at a time that works for you and all you have to do is open your computer to start.

Rediscover your curiosity with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash unplanned podcast today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp.com slash unplanned podcast. What do you hope young female viewers that had watched your seasons like gain from hearing your story? Um, well for one, I just want them to know that, um, nobody wants to have all of their teenage decisions blasted all over the internet. And I didn't think about that part of it. And so I have so many people that will write in to me and be like, I did not like you when I first started watching the show, but now I love you. And I'm like, no, I get it.

Like none of us probably would want that on the TV, right? Like making crazy decisions, fighting with our boyfriends, whatever, breaking up, cheating, scandals, the whole nine. So I just hope that people get my story and they're like, okay, we can do this. We got this. We're going to keep pushing through. You know what I mean? Yeah. Because whether it's kids or something else, like, I just feel like there's always more to be done. There's always more that we can get. We can get through it. It's going to be hard, but we can do it. This weekend, Abby and I were watching highlights from the show and I was actually, well, it's funny that you say that first off

because seeing who you are now from who you were 14 years ago, crazy, wild. Like it's just so cool to like, I don't know, see the evolution of a person in just a matter of a few days because like my perception of you in a way was like, oh, this is like this young girl on the show. But like I was just watching a show that was old like that's old seasons, you know, so it's like really cool to see how much you've changed and you've like come a really long way, which is awesome.

I would be mortified to watch old season 17. Here's the thing, watching it, I was like, I felt nothing but empathy. Because I think any woman looking at that could just imagine being 16 again, and then now since becoming a mom, I cannot imagine, like I started a family young, but there's a large difference between, you know, being 23, married, like all that, and then like 16, you don't have like any stability at home.

Like I just felt nothing but empathy. And honestly, you then to seeing you now, 16 you don't have like any stability at home. Like I just felt nothing but empathy and honestly You then to seeing you now. I'm like the pattern of your life of resilience is like don't me I can't cry Truly like I just see so much strength and resilience like it's, cause most people, that's not the situation. Like. I agree with you too, because like I'm fortunate to have two loving parents that I grew up with and I had their support and I had their help to guide me

to not make dumb decisions that I would have made if I wouldn't have had them as a kid. Yeah. And so yeah, like, like Abby said, seeing you with not the strongest support system, you're living in your boyfriend's parents basement. And I just felt, I felt so much like, I wish that everyone in life could just have

an equal playing field. And it's like, everyone gets an opportunity. Everyone doesn't have to start off with a crappy broken system, but it's not that way. You know, life isn't that way. And some people are born into a billionaire family and some kids are born into a household with no dad and an alcoholic mother, right?

Yes, 100%. I always do go back to the idea of if I was adopted into the right family, what could I have done? And I even think after all these years, I wish I didn't think that way, but I was the only one, I don't know if you guys know this, I was the only one on the entire franchise to get a bachelor's degree. And so imagine what I could have done. And if I could have the exact same kids, maybe 10 years later, you know what I mean? Because I don't regret any of my kids

for one second. So like what could I have done if I was in the right family, you know what I mean? But like that could have been so cool. Do you wish you would have, I mean obviously you can't change anything, but like if your mom was like in that position, do you wish that she would have like decided to put you up for adoption at one point? Yeah, I mean I definitely think that and I think it was a pride thing for her. Allegedly other family members had like toyed with the idea of like taking me in but my mom wasn't having it. So I just wish that and I see like where their kids are today and I'm like oh wow like wow. So I wish that I could have maybe had that and had the same kids later on but it all it all worked out. Obviously in hindsight,

like if you could have projected your life now to 16 year old you, like you wouldn't have changed anything. But at the time of finding out you were 16, you knew where you were at in life. Was the thought ever in your mind like maybe to put your son up for adoption? Were you like, I don't know if this is like right

at this point? No, I don't think so. Allegedly, Joe thought about it. It was in one of the scenes that I didn't even know he felt that way until we were like filming. Oh wow. And he said it on camera. We were all sitting at like the table at his parents' house

and he said something about like, he would have considered that and he never brought that to me. I never considered it. It wasn't even because it was almost like I knew in the back of my mind, it was like I needed to get pregnant and have him to execute everything that I needed to do to get my... And I hate that because he was born into so much pressure, it feels like. Even just saying that out loud, it feels like he was born into pressure.

He was the reason why I did those things, but I do think that he was the reason why I got my life in order and did the things that I did. But I had no idea until we filmed that scene. I think it was 16 and pregnant, maybe teen mom. I'm not sure where he said that, but it never crossed my mind to put him up for adoption. It was wild, too, seeing your thought process

going through all of that, because yeah, you're so young and even like, we had kids younger than most people do. Obviously, we had kids older than you did, but like for us being 23 and 24, having our first child, I was just like, I feel like I'm a kid. Like, I don't even know. Like, am I really an adult? Like, I just feel like I have imposter syndrome right now. And it was funny because there is a moment where I think it was, you guys were talking about Facebook, it was like you hanging out with some friends, and it's like, oh, if you're gonna go on dates with this guy,

you should change your—your friends were encouraging you to change your relationship status on Facebook. And I listened to them, I think. Like, how crazy was that? I—I forgot about that. I forgot about that. Like how crazy was that? I forgot about that. I forgot about that. Wow, I hope that friend is doing well. I think I might still be friends with her on Facebook, actually.

Oh, Facebook, of course. But just like sitting in your thought process of like, yeah, you know what? My friends are right. Rather than going and talking to, yeah, my boyfriend and his parents, I should just change my relationship status on Facebook. Like, what was I thinking?

What were they thinking encouraging me to do that? I'm thinking about the producers filming this. They were like, why didn't someone step in? Oh no, they wanted that. There was one time, there was this whole controversy over, so Joe's brother would watch Isaac when I would go to class and I had paid him off camera to babysit. And this is his uncle, right? Like who pays their uncle to babysit?

Anyway, and so we were filming and I think I owed somebody money. And then there was like this huge fight about me not paying him. And I said to the cameramen, can you please tell them that you saw me pay him? And they weren't allowed to step in. So they were allowed to film all of the drama that like ensued.

But they nobody stepped into on my behalf. I know, like she definitely paid paid him. Oh, yeah, it was crazy. It was like just thinking back, it was like, what in the world? What in the world? Because like now I know better. So if I were to be on a TV show now, I'd be like, okay, I'm definitely not gonna do that. You know what I mean? But then you think that they own your entire soul.

So you're like, okay, I have to do exactly what is happening. Did they kind of encourage those kind of interactions? No, they just didn't do anything. Yeah, it just was like, okay, we have to record this kind of thing. I paused the show. I was like, Abby, why is a producer not stepping in right now to tell Cale to not change your relationship status on Facebook?

Oh no, they ate that up. I also even thought about you having your first baby, you're so young, so many people in the room. I cannot even- Well, they lied about who they were to film that. I guess they would have to be. They were like, were related to her, were her cousins. And like now looking back, I'm like,

I would have never allowed that. But 16 and 17 year old Kale, I wasn't, I didn't care because I was getting $5,000. I had to buy a car so that I could get us to the doctor. You know what I mean? Like it was like, you just don't think about these things. So like now I'm thinking about all of the things that went into reality TV and I'm like, oh wow.

And I don't, they're not all that way. And I think they definitely, Teen Mom itself, the producers, all of that evolved over time. But in the beginning, I think we just didn't know any better. So they definitely took advantage of that. I'm surprised that they were able to, like even with the network's rules, because you were 60,, you were a minor.

Yeah. And that's like a very, I can't even imagine what that would be like. I didn't even want like my own mom in the room. I was like, I just need to be us. Like you too. Yeah. Cause it's just so overwhelming, like vulnerable moment, like wild, wild things. And you two years ago left the show.

Now you're, now you're doing podcasts. What kind of led you to leave the show? What made you decide, hey, I'm done with this. I wanna go off and do my own thing. There were a lot of things that were a factor. One of the bigger ones was that I was giving them, so we would have these, I don't wanna call them meetings,

because I don't think they were meetings, but just periodic updates about everything that you have going on. And I would give 10, 15 things of like what I wanted to film and they would never focus on any of that. They only wanted to focus on myself and the relationships with the dad, but we're so far removed from that. Like we're no longer preventing teen pregnancy.

We're just showing where we're at now. And so it was really frustrating to constantly look like I'm fighting with the producers or I'm like withholding information when it's like, there's no movement on my relationship with my son's dad. There's nothing here. I don't want to do this anymore. I want to focus on things that are like driving me. I want to focus on my career. I want to do all that and show those things and they never wanted to do it. And so that was like the, I would say the biggest driving factor. My kids wanted to participate only when it was showcasing like highlights. And I also agree with that. Like why are we trying to have them have meltdowns or like have them, I don't

know, like situations that involve them or conflicts that involve them. I just don't think that they needed to, they didn't need to be a participant of that. So I just wanted to see more growth in my story, but I feel like I was mainly pigeonholed into the character that I was created to be. So I was like, all right, let's take a step back and if we, you know, in two, three years decide, okay, we wanna go back to TV, like we could do that,

but honestly, I think it was probably the best decision I've made. So I don't regret it. Who is that character that you were created to be and then who do you feel like you actually are? Have you ever seen any of like the Disney villain origin stories? Like have you ever seen like the specifically Maleficent? She's my favorite villain but she was a fairy before she was a villain but the human stole her wings and like mocked her and did that whole thing and so she became a villain. I feel like they didn't show enough of where I came from to kind of set the scene for why I made pretty poor

decisions and like they didn't focus a lot on like my parents and my upbringing. And then they villainized me because I made stupid decisions like dating this guy in their house. And you know, I kind of, we all, I think, when we were younger or whatever. And with that, I went to college. But you know they showed my graduation from college for maybe a minute.

I thought we were preventing teen pregnancy. And I'm the only one in the franchise that has a bachelor's degree. And you guys didn't showcase that but for one minute. I just feel like showing, you know, the odds stacked against me and how I kind of broke the walls down, they never focused on that. And so I feel like that was the part that was really

missing from everyone. And I would have given them the drama they wanted, but I needed it to be the drama that made sense for my story, not for what I was 10 years prior, if that makes sense. Sort of like the Disney villain origin story. That's like, that's so deep. Sorry, my brain's like going on a wild train. But that's like, that's really cool though. It's kind of interesting though, like when you think about it, like most villains didn't start off that way. No. Yeah, they didn't. No, they were villainized. Yeah.

And I definitely didn't make the best decisions all the time. Like I know that I could, I could watch Teen Mom and tell you, oh, I definitely shouldn't have done that and point out all the things that I shouldn't have done or I shouldn't have said. And I know that, but it's like, I have accountability and I know how to own what I've done wrong and I still don't get that forgiveness. Even now I think I struggle with it. I think that people still hold on to like who I was

because of the show. So hopefully one day people will be like, okay, this is who she is now and we all make mistakes, but I don't think I'm all the way there yet. Where are you going? Like, where do you envision yourself in five years? What's the, what's the goal on the evolution of, of kale? I want to go to law school. No way.

I want to take the LSAT and go to law school and hopefully put Kristen through law school too. My assistant, my best, my best friend, and we just want to own a law firm together. So that's the goal. I always make jokes that me and Isaac will go to college again at the same time. Like he'll go and then I'll also go. So I'm like, we'll just keep growing up together.

It's fine. And he laughs about it. So that's like the five years. Cause then the twins will be in kindergarten. So I would have more flexibility to like go to classes and still be able to podcast at night if I need to for the income and stuff. Why law school?

I just always wanted to be a lawyer. Really? Yeah, and you know what? Being in the entertainment industry, and I mean entertainment, not strippers, as you know, TV and stuff, we deal with so many entertainment contracts and just the book deals and the socials

and all the contracts that I feel like we have so much experience first hand that it makes sense. And unfortunately, neither of us live in states that have like the apprenticeship way to law school or to become a lawyer. So I'd have to physically go to the classes, which is fine. I think if I were to do well on the LSAT, there's a school that's like about an hour and a half from me. So I would have to make the commute, but like I'm down to do it. If my kids are in kindergarten, that would be the, my fingers are crossed. I didn't know that was a way into being a lawyer, being an apprentice though. Have you considered potentially moving your family to a different States?

You could be an apprentice. Um, I just don't know how to approach four dads and be like, Hey, I want to do this for myself, so I need to move all of us to another state. I think they would be like, you've lost your mind. If it wasn't gone before, it's definitely gone now. That's something I need to think about. So yeah, with having four different dads that you're coordinating with

and they're spending time with their kid, you're spending time with your kid, like you can't leave the state. No, and I didn't come there by choice. I came there because of my ex-husband. So he was stationed there for the military and he made it a career. So we've been there for 10 years. And then with that, my son, my Joe from Isaac's dad moved his family to Delaware. Well, then I went to college and I met Lux and Creed's dad and we met in college and we were together for on and off for five years. And so he's from Delaware. And then after that, I was with Elijah, who's also from Delaware. So everyone's in Delaware. And I don't think that a judge would be like, yeah, this is a great idea.

So like I could in theory file to relocate, but like, what are they going to say? Does that, oh, that's the process. Oh yeah, for sure. Like I think either everyone would have to be on board, which I think they wouldn't and it just wouldn't, I don't think it would work out. You're like, I am in Delaware. I'm gonna make the most of it. So you actually cannot move? No, like in theory, yes, but like, no. Crazy. So if you decide, you know what, I've decided Paris is my home. I want to move there. You would have to go to a, in court, and like plead your case to a judge

who then decides if this is okay for your family. Yes. Crazy. Yeah, and there have been times where I'm like, oh, I can, I'll do it. And then I get wild hairs and I'm like, okay, I think South Carolina, most recently. I was like, I love it, I think I need to buy a house here.

And then I was like, wait, this process will actually be a nightmare. I think you mentioned on your podcast, like co-parenting coordinator. What is that? I didn't even know that be a nightmare. I think you mentioned on your podcast, like co-parenting coordinator. What is that? I didn't even know that was a job. Yeah, so that's, after almost 15 years of co-parenting, I'm just now discovering what this is.

So I recently had a trial with one of the dads and my lawyer was like, you guys are not candidates for co-parenting counseling because you guys are committed to not understanding each other and never seeing the other one's perspective. So what a co-parenting counseling because you guys are committed to not understanding each other and never seeing the other one's perspective. So what a co-parenting coordinator does is basically, instead of going to a judge and pleading your case, you go to the coordinator who is like a lawyer mediator

and you're like, okay, I wanna go on vacation on their week this time, but I'm gonna offer them these other two weeks to make up for it. And say the other parent is like, absolutely not, she's still not taking my week. The co-parenting coordinator would be like, no, yes, she is because she's offering you these other two weeks to make up for it. And say the other parent is like, absolutely not, she's still not taking my week. The co-parenting coordinator would be like, no, yes she is because she's offering you

these two other weeks. She's being more than reasonable or whatever the case is. In Delaware, you can send your kids to any school you want, any public school you want. Why do you wanna send them to this school versus that school? You would go to the co-parenting coordinator. And if then it still doesn't get worked out or solved,

I think at that point, then you could go to the judge. But it's basically like a mediator under a retainer. Okay. Sounds good, in theory. So would you need to have one for each relationship? Probably not. No, I mean, there's only one that I don't get along with. So just that one.

Okay. Yeah, yeah. I didn't know that was a job. That's really cool. I just found out. I think Joe and I could have benefited from one of those like a long time ago, but I didn't know they existed. So now I know that was a job. That's really cool. I just found out. I think Joe and I could have benefited from one of those like a long time ago, but I didn't know they existed. So now I know.

So if someone is divorced watching this and they're having issues with their ex-spouse, they should go to a co-parenting coordinator. Absolutely. And I don't even think you had to be married, because I wasn't married to him. Oh, that's right. Yeah, I think just look up, probably ask an attorney.

Like call an attorney. They'll give you resources. Most of the time their attorneys So but all that stuff costs money though. It does like how do you afford that if you're if you're coming from nothing? I mean, I'm just thinking of like other parents out there Yeah, who need to have conflict resolution in the relationship with them not being with their person anymore Like what what should they do? What should somebody do if they don't have the finances to pay a co-parenting coordinator? I don't know about other states.

I know Delaware is like pro dad. So there's resources available for dads that want to be actively involved, I guess, for lack of better words. So honestly, probably just I would go to family court and then just ask like the clerk or something and they might have a list of resources for um low income or or anything like that is my advice because sometimes like lawyers will give you resources without a consultation they might be like oh i can't help you but these people can and like give you information or the clerk at the family courthouse. What's been your drive through all this? What's been the thing that when

life gets you down and you feel like you can't get back up again or you feel like you've been villainized for past mistakes or maybe there's a conflict that arises with coordinating vacations? I don't know, like what keeps you, like what wakes you up in the morning? You're like, hey, it's going to be okay. You know? I think the quickest answer would be my kids, as you guys know, as parents, they just motivate you in a different way than anybody else, but I think too,

from a more personal perspective would be just not wanting to be like my mom, like trying to be the mom that I never had, or the person that I never had to look up to, because I didn't really have that either. I just didn't have an older sibling, I didn't have an aunt to look up to, or just a woman that I could look up to, because I didn't really have that either. Like, I just didn't have like a thought, like I didn't have an older sibling, I didn't have an aunt to look up to, or like just like a woman that I could look up to. I think just trying to be that person that I didn't have probably.

And I know you said your mom never had the sex talk with you. Have you had those conversations with your kids? What do those conversations look like with your kids? Yeah, I definitely have. Not the younger ones, but specifically the older one. I'm like, do you like look at, you know, kids and I'm like, you know, are you and he's like, Mom, like he doesn't he's not interested yet. But I'm like, okay, like if you want to talk about it, I'm here or he'll tell me like, oh, he has a crush on something. Like, okay, tell me about this person. Like, what are you feeling? Like,

kind of like gossiping, but in a parental role so that I can like plant the seeds, you know what I mean? Do they know how babies are made though? Like are they, they are? Yes, yes, for sure. This episode of Unplanned Podcast is brought to you by Huggy's Skin Essentials. Baby butts rejoice! New Huggy's Skin Essentials are here!

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Learn more at Huggies.com. Once again, head to Huggies.com to learn more. This is a little bit controversial, but my kids are, we don't use names for private parts and things like that. So straight up, if you ask my kids where babies come from, they will say your vagina. Like straight up. And I do that for several reasons. One, I think there's predators and it just scares me. But also just wanting to do things so much differently than what I had. I know it's not for everybody.

And I know that like my seven year old maybe shouldn't know what a vagina is, but like also he does because I also teach him at that age about consent. Even my four year old knows about consent. Like don't hug your friends without asking. Don't kiss anybody on the cheek without asking. Like very like strict with that.

And so I definitely have those conversations. Not with the younger ones, but body parts, yes. That's cool that you're having conversations about consent. Some people, but body parts. Yes, that's that's good You're having conversations. I don't like it. They're like, oh, I don't think about like I don't know if my kid needs to know my toddler shouldn't know what a vagina is. I'm like I get it Like it's not for everyone. It's not I mean, yeah I I can see both sides but I'm like it is just human anatomy Like it's really not like it's only people that just make it weird like I don't know society

I just get nervous about like they don't ride the bus or anything when we build our new house. They'll ride the bus. I think maybe I Don't know yet But I'm like nervous because I've heard about like crazy conversations that kids have had on the bus and I just rather than know From me like oh, this is what that like my four-year-old came up to me and was like What are those like talking about my boobs? And like these are boobs and nipples and he's like, oh, okay. And then that he just is doesn't care. You know what I mean?

And so I think I'd rather that than like him going on the bus and being like hearing all these like conversations, you know? So you're like probably a very different. Well would you say that you're a different mom now than when you first had started having babies? The makeup artist literally asked me that this morning. Really? Yeah.

Surprisingly, I don't, I think I've grown with the times, but I think my principles have remained the same. Okay. I think I've been the same mom, but trying to make better decisions as I know better. Like I'm trying to do better when I know better. But outside, I think my principles have been pretty much the same. Okay. Because I was going to ask if like,

you notice a difference between like your first son, Isaac, and then like some of your younger children, like if they are similar or different anyway. I will say my middle kids are probably the most different. And I feel bad because they are middle kids. And so then I feel like they already get like the reputation of being the middle children, but I had a nanny during that time.

And I think that the impact that a nanny has on your children compared to when you just raise your kids yourself will make a huge difference. And so my older two and my younger three are exactly the same. But my middle two, because I had a nanny during that time, I think are a little bit different. They were parented different because of that.

Which is really interesting. And I've only just now kind of seen the effects of that I feel. Do you guys have a nanny? We don't have a nanny. But like Abby's mom will help out through it. Oh for sure. Which is so nice.

But do you think that's in a good way? Has it helped? Oh in a bad way. Absolutely not. Really? Absolutely not. I think that it was needed at the time way? Has it helped? Oh, in a bad way. Absolutely not. Really? Absolutely not. I think that it was needed at the time. I had like postpartum and like,

I was going through a lot of things at the time. And so I think it was needed at the time, but like looking back, looking at the results today and looking back at the situation, I definitely, it's like, there's like, it's a catch 22 because it was needed at that time. But I think that there were,

the kids were impacted differently than if I would have just raised them myself, by myself. Were you, but okay, obviously postpartum is a serious thing that's not easy to go through that. So do you wish you would have tried to not have the nanny even while you were going through postpartum? Yeah. Um, or potentially maybe had less help? Yeah.

Still had help, like her help, but less of it. Mm-hmm. And, and, and had more boundaries, I think. Because I think lines were blurred a little bit. And with postpartum, was that something that happened with every pregnancy or was it, was this just a few of them? At first I thought after Isaac I had like postpartum, but I think it was more like a case of like baby blues.

I also just didn't like there's a scene I think it was on 16 and pregnant where I'm coming home from the hospital and she was like, are you ready to go home? And I was like, no, because in the hospital you have like the nurses and everything that were helping you care for the baby and nobody stayed at the hospital with me. So like Joe went back to work the same day, nobody stayed at the hospital. So I had the nurse's help. So I was very scared to go home and like everyone's back at work and I don't know what to do. So I was not prepared. And so I had, I would sleep on the floor in his room. And finally Joe's dad was like, you need to get up out of this room. You need to shower, you need to get up, you need to do like, and I was taking care of

him. So that's why I think it was more, maybe it was just like depression in general, because I, taking care of him. So that's why I think it was more maybe it was just like depression in general, because I wasn't not taking care of him. Where I think sometimes postpartum is hard to like bond with your baby and stuff. Yeah. And then I didn't have it with Lincoln, I didn't have it with Lux. But I think with my fourth, there was also like a lot of stuff that happened prior to giving birth to him that I think affected it. And then COVID, I ended up having him at home. And so it was like just a lot of factors, I think that played into postpartum, but then I never had it after that.

You had him at home like you did a home birth? Yeah. What was that experience like? It was really cool. I always say, did you have like an epidural or anything? Yeah. So I've had every single birth imaginable. I've had epidural, no epidural, home birth,

hospital birth, medicated, unmedicated, a C-section. You're like, I can tell you. I've had all of them. Yeah, give us a T. Give us the monster. Okay, so when people ask about, or like we have, you know, when you go out with your girlfriends and you all talk about like childbirth and things like that. Oh yeah, every time.

I've had every single one. I will say through all the experiences, the unmedicated was really, really cool. I did a hospital unmedicated and. I did a hospital unmedicated and then I did a home unmedicated. They were really cool. It's like collect them all. I was like, let me just experience it for everyone and then I'll give you guys the feedback. I'll be the guinea pig. Yeah. So what am I saying? We're talking about collect them the different- Homework.

Oh yeah, the homework. Homework, yeah. So I had a midwife who she took care of a lot of the Amish around us. I live in an Amish community, so everyone's Amish around us. And their whole thing is you don't lift a finger for six weeks. Her whole thing was you don't use the stairs, don't get out of bed, don't do any of that. And so I was like, okay, but I have three other kids. And like, what am I supposed to do? And so she was so, what is that, like holistic, I guess. And so it was really cool to like see

that kind of perspective of childbirth. And it was like really cool to experience it. But I think overall, I felt safer in a hospital, like it felt like one of those things where like, I like the idea of the pediatrician coming in to like check on the baby after and like being checked and things like that. But I did learn a lot of cool things. So like when you're giving birth, I chose to give birth in bed. I know a lot of people do like the shower, but like, I don't know why I was most comfortable in bed.

I just was. And we laid like a shower curtain on the bed so that way it doesn't ruin your sheets. So that was kind of cool. And then also putting honey in your diapers, instead of wearing pads after birth, wear like an actual adult diaper because it's less messy and it just like covers you and keeps you secure.

But putting honey in it because it's anti-microbial and so it helps you heal faster allegedly. And so that was kind of cool. So it was just like different things. And then I took some of those things and implemented them in my births after the home birth. Okay. So I kind of got the best of both of all the worlds.

And how would you rank them from like best experience? Wow. If I had to give birth, I would do that again or worse experience. I'm so curious. Okay. So I would say overall, I would say the home birth was probably my favorite. Really? And then I would say hospital birth unmedicated.

And that wasn't by choice. That was an accident. So my water broke at 1.30 in the morning and I gave birth by three o'clock on the dot. Like 90 minutes flat, I begged for an epidural but she couldn't eat, I never got an IV. Like I never even got fluids. So like that wasn't by choice.

So then I would say unmedicated, cause it just is a relief, a relief, what am I saying? Release, release of endorphins, like unmedicated is a little bit different. So I would say home birth, unmedicated hospital. And then I would say so then the third one I had my first one, I had an epidural. So then I would say fentanyl before I knew what it was. I did a fentanyl birth. And so that was you've heard of like the fentanyl on the streets. It's not that kind. So in the hospital, you can

get it. Mind you, at this time, I did not know that this was like a street drug. Like I had no idea. You're like either unmedicated or fentanyl. No, in between. No, I'm just kidding. So the fentanyl, they cut it off at a certain point because if they don't, the baby will come out like completely like out of it. Like it will like basically drug the baby. But in actual like medical doses, it can be really, really powerful. It can work for you really well. So I was like nodding off for lack of better words during labor, but it wasn't an epidural. So you still feel like the

ring of fire and stuff like that. So I would say, yeah, home birth, unmedicated, fentanyl, epidural, and then C-section. Wait, am I missing one? Rio. Oh, Rio, I did epidural too. So yeah. Okay. Wow. I was like, wait, I knew someone was missing.

You did a C-section with the twins. Yeah. And that also, I was kind of prepared for that. They wanted to induce me and I was completely against it because I was kind of prepared for that. They wanted to induce me and I was like completely against it. So I was like, I'm fine. I've done this 100 times. Like I don't need, I don't need to be induced. Like my body is going to do what it needs to do. If that 40 weeks, I don't go on my own. Like then we'll talk about it. Yeah. I just didn't, I didn't personally feel like I needed to be induced before that because

my body had done it so many times before and it did work out for me Obviously, that's not the case for everybody and I completely understand but the c-section was scary. Oh, was it unscheduled? Yeah, well, so they tried to schedule it for the 38 weeks and I was like no I'm gonna do this on my own I ended up going five weeks early Went into labor on my own and so at that point it became like an emergency c-section sort of Like it wasn't a super emergency that point it became like an emergency C-section sort of. Like it wasn't a super emergency, but it was like, okay, we actually need to do a C-section today kind of thing. And so I wouldn't really recommend that, but I also, what was the alternatives to schedule one when I wasn't ready?

Was the plan to always do a C-section or what? Oh, okay. Yeah. It was always to do a C-section, but I always wanted to go into labor on my own and then have the C-section because I just felt like, like I said, my body had done this a hundred times before. So that was kind of like what my thought process was. And obviously don't take my advice, I'm not a doctor. And why the C-section? Like what part of the process sucked?

So I have had cosmetic procedures before where I was elective. So I was drugged before I went in the room, right? So like they give you a Valium or a Xanax and so you're kind of already out of it. When you get a C-section, you don't have that. So you walk into an operating room that's like straight out of a movie

where it's like these tools and these monitors and like all of these things. And I was like, oh my God, I'm gonna be cut open and I'm not drugged yet. You know what I mean? And then I started TMI, I hope you don't have a weak stomach, I started throwing up my dinner. So I'm like literally on the table strapped down

because they strap your arms down, which nobody ever told me. Did you get a C-section? With my second. Did you get strapped down? Yo, yeah. Oh, I hated it. I was like, why?

I was like, what are we strapped? And they were like, some people convulse. And I was like, oh, okay. And so I was just really upset. And they didn't let Elijah in the room right away. Were you vomiting because of anxiety? I don't know if it was anxiety or nausea or what medicine. So they ended up giving me medicine that maybe made me sick or I was already throwing up. I don't know. So then they gave me the anti-nausea medicine. It was just a

nightmare. I would never recommend that. I mean, obviously we need them, but like, yeah. Yikes. I wonder if they do that because they want the moms to be able to see their baby like right when the baby comes out Well, they didn't let me see my daughter. Wait, really? Elijah said they did but I have no recollection actually so I remember seeing because I found out I think around 13 weeks that it was boy-girl twins And so I had six boys. I was like, I can't wait to have a daughter. Like this is exciting. I remember he was born first and I remember like seeing him and having him next to my face and I don't remember anything about them putting my daughter near me. So I don't know if it's like about that. It could be. I don't know. I also hated the date that they were born. I wanted them to be born 15 minutes later so it was on the next date. But they were like no. I was like it's 15 minutes

and they were like no. You like literally asked them. Yeah. Oh, 100%. That's so funny. Well, that's the whole reason I shouldn't be admitting this. I really didn't want the C-section either because, or to be induced because they wouldn't give me an induction date that I liked.

So like whole numbers. You know what I mean? Like the 30th, the 25th, like these are like nice solid numbers. And they were like, no. I wonder if there's places that actually let you choose the date if you're like, oh, I love this date because Abby's dad's birthday was the next day.

So I was like, how cool would that be if our son was born on your dad's birthday? For sure. Because our first boy was born on my mom's birthday. Oh, that would have been so cool. Right, to have like, they both share a birthday with their grandparents. But I was like, I don't think I wanna do this one more day.

Yeah, Abby was like, get this baby out of me. I think I'm ready. I feel like I'm done. I want to hold him in my arms. That's so funny. I just really wanted a whole date and they were like, no. So it was more the procedure than the recovery that you hated for this? Oh, the recovery was nothing for me.

I had no issues at all. But I had a tummy tuck in 2016, so I had no feeling below my belly button at all, like even now. So I never felt, like my incision busted open and was like leaking. Like I'm talking like leaking and I never felt it. Wait, you had a tummy tuck

and then you got pregnant with twins? I got pregnant five times after my tummy tuck. No way. I sure did. That's why I came to Scottsdale, Arizona to go meet with that plastic surgeon. Oh, you wanna do it again? I just want a little revision.

Oh, so it stayed pretty well. Oh, it stayed really well. There's like my muscle separated. So he was like, oh, so the doctor I talked to in Dallas, so I wanna get a third opinion, said, oh, you don't even need like a full tummy tuck or like a mini, I just need to tighten the muscles back up because they stretched out a little bit.

But like the tummy tuck itself is great, it's fantastic. Wow. So, but five kids after is kind of crazy. Like why? It's like I should have waited, but it wasn't harder than to be pregnant after your skin was so tight. Yeah. My fourth son, his foot, it was fine. But this is why I said about like the pediatrician coming to the room after you don't have that at home birth. Well, my fourth son was born at home.

I don't know if it's from my tummy tuck. My doctor says no, but I tend to disagree. His toes were born touching his shins. Like think about your foot and your toes. They stayed that way? Oh, for he had to go to an orthopedic doctor and everything. They swear it wasn't from my tummy tuck, but I don't think that they're correct. Like there just wasn't enough space for him to stretch it out? Correct. That's my opinion. I'm not a doctor. My gosh. He's fine now. I'm not a doctor. My gosh.

He's fine now. What was more painful, the tummy tuck or the C-section? The C-section. No, well, no, I didn't feel the C-section. I would say the tummy tuck. Yeah, the tummy tuck. Like the recovery? I didn't, here's the thing.

I didn't feel the tummy tuck either because I had lipo. And the lipo hurt so bad that I didn't feel anything else. Wow. Yeah. You're like, I've been in and out of doctors. I could talk to you guys for days. Like anything you guys wanna know, I'm gonna open book. Like this might be a three hour podcast.

Well, like I did not know that, yeah, the tummy tuck thing didn't know about that liposuction. Like I would have never thought that hurt. I mean, I had known literally nothing about liposuction. So of the three liposuction, tummy tuck, C-section, which one's the most painful? Lipo. Lipo is the worst thing you'll ever do in your entire life

and I hope you never have to do it. I hope you never- You're sucking fat and moving it somewhere. No, you just suck it out. Oh, and that hurts really bad. Oh, it's the worst thing that, it literally feels, like I think that I told her I was gonna die. Is it just, does the pain come from one area

or does it engulf you? No, it's everywhere. Because I did Lipo 360, so they took, this was in 2016, I mean, you know it's everywhere because I did like both 360 so they took this was in 2016 I mean they took it from everywhere My back my chin which I might get that done again It's the worst pain and I'm gonna do it again Well, it's hard being in the public eye and then you like nothing is good enough You know what I mean? And like also I want to look good in a bathing suit

So we'll see how would you describe the pain? Literal death. What like what? Like you can't move you literally I could not even Kristen was there she took care of me. And it was truly imagine getting hit by a truck and surviving. You're awake during it. No. Oh I was asleep. It's just when you woke up you had so much pain. Oh my god, it was awful. Yeah. Got it. Why can't they drug you though when you're awake? Why are like, why can't they numb? No, I'm drugged. Not now. And it still hurts so much. Yeah. Wow. It's so bad. It's so, I remember throwing up like nauseous because of the pain meds and I try to avoid pain meds at all costs just because of my mom. So I like would try to only take them like if I really, really needed

them, even though I had like the prescription, I would like to only take them if I really, really needed them. Even though I had the prescription, I would skip a dose so that I could just, I don't know, I don't have an addictive personality, but I do also fear it because of my mom. So I was also trying to space it out, and I don't recommend that. If you're getting cosmetic, yeah, get ahead of it and just honestly.

That, it's funny to say that, because that was Abby, she was trying to avoid her pain meds after getting a C-section. I was like, please take the pain medicine. You're in pain Oh, did you and you were still in pain? Oh, yeah Cuz I feel like if I were to do another c-section I would take the pain meds the whole time like that you can because you're you've been through enough You're not sleeping like you're not and then I was so emotional and then I was also in pain

So everything was amplified and you wanted was so emotional and then I was also in pain so everything was amplified. Yeah, and you wanted to feed her a baby and I was like, hey, it's not a big deal. What was nursing like after the C-section? It was painful, yeah. Okay, because I had the C-section with the twins, I opted to not try to nurse because it was just so much for me and I had a one-year-old so I was like, I just can't. So I, and they were also five weeks early, so I was like, what is that going to yeah. So they were also five weeks early so I was like

what is that gonna be like? So did he latch okay? Like it was all fine? Both my babies were not like the greatest latchers. He was definitely worse but the main problem is that right the day after, so like he's one day old, I'm one day post C-section, I had more I would say holistic maybe is the word we're using

lactation consultant come in she was like just set him on your stomach and let him find where he needs to go and we did and I had like you know a gaping open wound and he literally it felt like he put his little foot in it it hurts like searing pain it was really dangerous too because like my reaction is like in so much pain I like move forward He was fine. Obviously wasn't anything dramatic, but like that was like a very scarring moment Yeah, I was like not taking the pain medication and I was so fresh in his little foot Like I had staples too and it was like staples

Why did they say why my doctor just does that? Okay, it's not common They just did stitches for me, but I don't remember getting the option but I feel like anything that I knew about c-section prior to having one was staples. Yeah I think it's a more old-fashioned way of like my doctor is kind of old like old school. Yeah. But it's crazy because it's literally like a staple gun like from what I understand just with medical like. Were you out of it when you got them? No, I could hear it was like, it was mine. See that was giving me more anxiety than actually feeling them.

I think the sounds, like when you go to the dentist, do you ever- Oh yeah, I don't like those sounds, no. Can't do it. No, I think there was a weird thing going on. I was like oddly chilled the whole T-section. I think I was on some type of medication. Abby gets her fear of pain medicine from her dad because her dad elected to do his wisdom

teeth surgery removal. Fully awake. Fully awake. So it's just like his head is just going, like all the drills and stuff are going. I used to work in dental assisting. You're like, I've done everything. No, we had teeth like crumble in our... Oh, no, I can't. The sounds, the smells, I can't do it.

Oh, ew, smells. So do you think like you've been very open about like... Everything? Yeah, everything. But I feel like a lot of people are scared to be open about like cosmetic surgeries and procedures. Is your motivation like what? Yeah. What makes you comfortable with being so open about those things post having babies? Because I don't think people are.

I don't people don't want to talk about it, but why not? I'm not judging anyone who gets plastic surgery. When I got plastic surgery, I think it was 2016, I did the show The Doctors. Do you guys remember that show? It was a daytime TV situation. And I was like, I'm never getting plastic surgery again because I was shamed for getting it.

And then years went by I didn't get plastic surgery. And I was likeamed for getting it. And then years went by, I didn't get plastic surgery. And I was like, you know what? Like, I actually regret saying that. Like I like went on national television was like, this is my biggest regret. And I feel like I was pressured into saying that. Like it was like people were shaming me for it. And so now I'm 32 and I'm like, if I'm getting a procedure done and there's something I don't like about myself again, it's not for everybody.

But I feel like I'm so a procedure done and there's something I don't like about myself, again, it's not for everybody, but I feel like I'm so open-minded about everything. Someone could be a religion that I know nothing about. I don't care. Whatever you want to do for you and your family and your choice and your body is on you. I'm happy if you're happy. I would hope that other people would feel that way too. I just talk about everything. I got my teeth done.

I've had my body done. I want my boobs done. I'll talk about it all would feel that way too. So I just talk about everything. I got my teeth done, I've had my body done, I want my boobs done, like I'll talk about it all. I don't care. Thank you to Green Chef for sponsoring this portion of today's episode. Don't let the back to school season set back your nutrition. Green Chef is making it easy to stick to your healthy eating habits with a new, more flexible menu

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That's code unplanned class at greenchef.com slash unplanned class to get 50% off your first box and 50 free class pass credits. The number one meal kit for eating well. Why do you think people are so uptight about that subject of plastic surgery? I don't know because it's, and it's such a weird place to be because on social media everyone wants

to show all their highlights and do all these things and portray like this perfect life. But then I think that also pressures them to get plastic surgery, but then they want to hide it. And then when people recognize that maybe they look different, I don't know. I don't know. I really don't. Do you think that being in the public eye, like kind of like you mentioned, made you

dislike certain things about your body more? Oh, for sure. I think that I could have been happy with my body the way it was if it wasn't for social media and being in more? Oh, for sure. I think that I could have been happy with my body the way it was if it wasn't for social media and being in the public eye, for sure. But with that being said, I think that there are caveats, I guess, of like, I don't wanna give up my life in the public eye either.

I would like to be a little bit less in the public eye, which is why, you know, part of the reason why I removed myself from TV, but I love social media and I love, you know, podcasting and things like that. And so I think there is authenticity in owning the things that I'm going to do or that I want to do. It must be nice to, to now fully control the narrative that you're putting out rather than

some other producer being the one who decides what gets shown to the masses. You get to have a say in that with all of your podcasts and all of your social media accounts. 100%. And I think that goes for like the plastic surgery thing too. Like I can talk about it at my own free will and talk about disclose what I want and not disclose what, you know what I mean? Do you have, do you have any regrets or on the flip side, like as far as plastic surgery goes or on flip side, do you have anything that you're like, man, this was a, I'm really

glad that I got this done or something. I'm happy with all my procedures. I don't even have regrets at this point. I'm just, I wish I got my boobs done when I got the rest of my body done cause maybe I wouldn't be trying to go again. You know what I mean?

If I just got it all done at once, then it would have been fine. I don't know. Like with your tummy tuck? Yeah. Wow. That seems like such a big surgery. And that. Yeah, that's a lot.

I had a double hernia repair and that made me not wanna have it anymore. From the pregnancies? From my first. Oh my gosh. Yeah, so it's crazy. So my son has what looks like the start of one, like a hernia, and they were like,

oh, if it doesn't resolve itself with the next amount of time, we would do something. But sometimes they resolve themselves. Do the pregnancy ones not resolve themselves? Or you don't know? I don't think they thought this one was gonna resolve itself. It was really after like pushing so hard with my first,

like I think that's what made the, well I had an umbilical one, which I'm assuming I had probably just micro since I was born. But then through pregnancy and birth, like it was visible. Like it exacerbated the, oh okay. Yeah yeah cuz I didn't even know about it before and then it was like okay what's wrong with my belly like what is that and so my

doctor my six week postpartum appointment like you're hernia you need surgery and I was like just matter of fact like she is shot it straight and then she's like and then when I went to the surgeon he's like in fact you have two like there was one on the side that's called a ventral one, I believe. Anyway, that surgery was really painful. And so now I'm like, I can't imagine getting a tummy tuck. Anything with my abdomen, I'm like, no.

Was that the deciding factor for the C-section the second time? No. But it probably could all be slightly related. I am not a doctor. But with our first, we had a shoulder dystocia, where his shoulders got stuck. And so I was advised, there's a lot of opinions on this,

but like my doctor did advise me to have his T-section with a second if he was measuring any bigger. And so he was bigger. And so then we're like, well, just do a scheduled T-section. I'm sure people after a shoulder dystocia go back and have a great vaginal delivery, but for me, I was like, I didn't want to risk it. Yeah, no, I completely understand that.

And so it was, that's what happened, but I was like, I've had a lot of surgeries on my abdomen the past two years, I'm like, I'm- Do you still have feeling in your stomach? I do. Oh, that's so interesting. Yeah. I wonder why mine, I don't, like-

Wait, like up here? Under my belly button to like my bikini line, I have no feeling. None at all. No. Like if they cut me open, I would not feel it. I never felt my C-section. I will say it does feel weird on it, but it doesn't feel like I can feel things. That's so interesting.

That's so wild. Honestly, I wouldn't mind losing feeling. I mean, why do you need feeling there? I'm like, if only belly button, if like belly button piercings were still in or are they in, I could get my belly button pierced and not feel it. You're like, yeah, don't numb me. It's fine. It's my special skill. I have superpowers now. I know because sometimes my son does kick it and I'm like, ah, I feel it. We have to be careful. We can't touch that. Whenever I accidentally touch your incision wound. It's still tender. Really? Yeah. How interesting. I know. I feel like people are

telling me to massage it. Really? She's like, I don't have feeling. Oh, that's right. Okay. Like I don't have any. Maybe the nerve endings are just like. Yeah, it had to be. Also, one of my pigs has a hernia, so I wonder what that'll be like for this. You got a pig? I have three pigs, 12 chickens, two ducks, and four goats. Oh my gosh. Yeah. And also other like in the house. You really got to stay in Delaware, girl. Yeah. Well, we just bought 20 acres, so I wanna build like an actual barn. I don't have a barn right now.

We have like the little lean-to shelters for them, but I love Delaware. Oh my gosh, if I have literally any random thing that comes up in my life, I feel like I just need to reach out to you. There's a chance you know something about it. Oh yeah, just call me, text me 100%. We'll figure it out together.

So I'm thinking about getting some pigs. Like which one should I buy? Your pig has a hernia? Yeah, they gave him to us for free because he had a hernia. 100% we'll figure it out together. So I'm thinking about getting some pigs like which one should I buy? Yeah, they gave it to us for free because he had a hernia Like so what he doesn't matter People with hernias matter too Like what is going on? So yeah, we got them like last week or something and I didn't meet them cuz I was in New York So I've only spent like a day with them, but I'm really excited about it

Is the plan to turn your pigs into bacon? No. Matt, how dare you? I don't know. That's like the number one question, but it's like, and really what is the purpose of farm animals if you're not going to eat them?

But like, I love them, especially my chickens. They're just fun pets. Yeah, and you know what? We get eggs from the chickens and the goats are just funny. I literally said on the way out when I was coming here to Elijah, I said, please make sure you take care of my chickens and the goats are just funny. I literally said on the way out when I was coming here to Elijah, I said, please make sure you take care of my chickens and the kids. And he goes, your chickens are before your kids. And I was like, well, no, but like nobody takes care of them the way I do.

You know what I mean? And they're just chickens, but I love them. But I our friends have goats and they're like very ornery. Oh, yeah, they're so ornery and they're so funny. Like, they're just so fun. Would you ever like have property and like, do you have property and like goats and stuff? No. We don't have it.

I don't know. I feel like, Not for you. I can't picture us with that. Me neither. It's a great idea. Like I feel like everyone's like, I don't know, you get fed up with life.

You're like, I'm just gonna get a farm and I'm just talk to animals instead of people. I feel like I have that impulse every once in a while, but I just realistically, I'm like, I don't think it's in the cards for me. That's fine. We had that phase. I mean, we even stayed at my uncle's house

in the middle of nowhere for like a week and we took care of his chickens and his dogs. And it was fun. But yeah, I think for us- I think a week was enough for us. Yeah. I love that for you guys. I think it was enough.

We don't even have a dog. So I feel like for us, like that feels like a bigger commitment than having another kid. No, truthfully, I will give you insight from my chaotic life is that the dogs are harder than the children. Really?

Because they don't, when you're potty training, especially they don't poop in a diaper. They poop on your floor. And so I'm done with the inside animals. I will not have those anymore after the ones. Crazy. Yeah, we're done with that. But outside animals will not have those anymore after the ones. Crazy. Yeah, we're done with that. But outside animals, they're fine.

You know, we've been looking at houses recently and when you walk into a house where they have dogs, you can just smell it. 100%. You just know and it kind of, which I'm sure like, yeah, people that have dogs, they love their dogs. They don't care. But when you don't have a dog and then you are touring houses and you can smell the smell, it kind of makes you realize maybe I don't want to put on that.

1000%. I literally said when I sell my house, because the way we can't just like show our house, sell it and then move. We have to build the house and then move into it and then sell the house because you can't pick up seven kids and like the dogs and the cats and everybody else. I literally said we will have to change all of the flooring before we even list it because even though I don't think it smells like when you walk into a pet store, but there is a smell. And like if I'm going to list my house for what it's worth, they don't want to walk into a house that smells like animals.

That's smart too. Matt, you're going to eat your words. People are going to clip this and be like, we're going to get a dog someday. I know it's down the line. We will change our mind on literally everything. We will. And so just know that. Listening to this will change our mind a million times. But um, because we're allowed to do that. Yeah, I know. Not on social media. Oh yeah. Once you say it out loud, then you can never go back. Correct. It's concrete. I was just thinking though, like a lot of people

told us like when we, because we were like the first, as I'm sure you know obviously more so, first of our friends have kids are like, oh, but we have a dog and like we know and I think Now I'm like that kind of sometimes bugs me. I'm like, let me know when you're nursing your dog at 1 a.m They said that their dog well, it's a common thing for people like well, yeah, we don't have kids But like we have a dog so we know like what it's like and I'm like You're gonna drop your kid off at like the boarding place I'm gonna think for people like, well yeah, we don't have kids, but like we have a dog so we know like what it's like. And I'm like, I don't know. You're gonna drop your kid off at like the boarding place? So that you can go on vacation. You're gonna board your kid?

Yeah, you're gonna board your kid to go on vacation? Let me know how that works out. I'm like, it's not quite the same. I don't think they mean it, but I think that a lot of those people that say that probably down the line are like, yeah, it was totally a lot more to have a baby. It's totally.

Also though, also I think our newborns are just extremely needy. No. Well, I think because we had kids that were colic. Yeah, just Augie. Oh, I mean both of them. I don't know. I mean, like we have friends, like one of our friends, their baby will just like be

playing and just like fall asleep on the floor. Because you know, they do that. I love that for them. Are babies chill? Some of them. be playing and just like fall asleep on the floor. Cause you know, they do that. And I'm like, I love that for that. Our kids would never be that chill. I had one that was just screamed from birth until probably now when he turned four. So yeah, no, I've experienced all ends of the spectrum as far as that goes.

But I completely like, I see other, one of my twins is very chill. Like he's just so chill. I wish all the kids were like that. Our youngest is either like so happy and it's so cute because he just like laughs at everything and he just smiles at you and it's just like the best or he's the complete opposite and will just like cannot stop crying like curling like a sour patch kid. That's what I call my kids. But it's like my ear will ring. I'm like do I need to go

get my ears checked? Like this is pretty loud. Like I felt bad on the airplane on our way back from Nashville a couple weeks ago because I'm like we might have caused some hearing loss. My hearing is adjusted but other people's probably haven't. Well that's your excuse to fly private. You're like let me get a jet this time. Oh my gosh. Okay well neither have I but it sounds good.

Yeah I know I'm like I think he'll grow out of it eventually. Oh yeah I mean if he's not like Creed. My son Creed is I mean I'm like what I think he'll grow out of it eventually. Oh yeah, I mean, if he's not like Creed, my son Creed is, I mean, I'm like, what is going on? Like, what's happening? No, but you get desensitized to it, because other people hear his scream, and they're like, oh my gosh, is it his ears? Do they hurt?

I'm like, no, he does this. This is just him. And when he's full, rested, just randomly got agitated. Getting a tummy tuck though, was that the moment where you're like, okay, I think I'm done having kids? For sure. Like for real, for real.

That was five babies ago. Yeah. After two, you're like. Well because, okay, so here's the thing. I had, what do they, they call it secondary infertility. And so I had gone to, I had two boys and I had multiple miscarriages after my second. So I was like, okay, I went to a doctor

who was similar to like what yours, how yours is very like shoot it straight. And I appreciate that. And so So I was like, okay, I went to a doctor who was similar to like what yours, how yours is very like shoot it straight. And I appreciate that. And so he was basically like, Kayl, there are 40 year olds trying to get pregnant for the first time, like be blessed where you're at with two boys, they're healthy and they're thriving and all of the things.

And so I kind of committed to that. I was like, okay, like I'm not gonna have any more kids. I had told my ex-husband, which we were on the verge of divorce, I don't want any more kids, like I'm good. So I went and got the surgery. So I thought, okay, I'll be done. And that didn't work out.

So then you had a surprise? Sort of. Would you call that a surprise? I met my ex in college and I had a miscarriage after the tummy tuck and all of the surgeries. And then it was like, okay, that should have been like, okay, I just got this surgery. Like we weren't planning on

doing this anyway. Like that wasn't part of the plan. And then I think a couple of months later I ended up getting pregnant with my third son. Were you just shook because you thought there was no way? Yeah, it was just like, I didn't go through all of this to like then go through all of this. And so, and then it turned into, well, I'm going to miscarry this one anyway. Because at that point, I think I had three, two or three miscarriages. And so I was just like constantly checking for like blood and like trying to, I thought that I was going to miscarry again, which I didn't.

And then I there, how did I have three more after him? I don't know. How did you cope? That's not easy. That was rough. That one was really rough. And also the relationship in itself was just like very tumultuous and volatile and all of the things.

So I think I was just, I thought I was in a good place because I had just gotten divorced and I was kind of, and I hope that you guys never have to go through this, but I did feel liberating in some ways because I was like, I'm, I'm ending this chapter of this life and I'm going to start a new one and I'm going to be doing all these things. And I thought that I was in a good place, but then I ended up not making great decisions. And so I think not that my kids weren't great decisions because I love my children to death, but it was a lot. There was a lot going on. I think I was still sort of emotionally and maybe like

stunted mature and my maturity was stunted. So I still wasn't like making good choices. Do you have any frustrations or anger towards this feeling of man I missed out on a childhood, I missed out on the college experience or just getting to be like a teenager and going to parties and like enjoying my younger years. Like do you feel... Dating without children. Yeah, yeah. Sometimes and I think too that's why I like try to have those conversations with my kids especially about like sex and stuff and just like having open dialogue about everything because I want them to live that. I don't want them to have to worry about babies and sex and like girls and things. I just don't want I don't want that for them. So sometimes I'm okay. And I'm like, I love

the way that my life is and how it turned out. And you know, everything, all of the things that I went through to get here. And then other times I have moments where I'm like, Oh, wow, like, I wish that I got to live on campus with all my friends and like, do that whole thing. And like, I know college isn't for everyone. But like, oh wow, like I wish that I got to live on campus with all my friends and like do that whole thing. And like, I know college isn't for everyone, but like when my son finally found something that he's super passionate about, and like you do need a degree for,

I was like inside, I was like really excited because I'm like, he's gonna get to live on campus and like do all of these things and experience. And if it ends up not being for him, okay, but at least he got to live the experience and decide for himself where like abortion and adoption were not options for me when I got pregnant with Isaac. So you know what I mean?

I think comes full circle and I think I'll be, I'll find happiness for them. You know what I mean? Even though I didn't get to do it, I'll find happiness in watching them do it, you know? That's beautiful. What would you say to a 16 year old girl listening to this right now who is pregnant

or has a friend that's pregnant right now and doesn't know what to do? Always keep your education at the forefront. Never stop investing in yourself. No matter how much is stacked against you, don't stop investing in yourself because you need, you still need yourself to kind of push through for yourself and your child.

I think that was something that I never lost sight of. Like I never was like, okay, I'm just going to give up on myself. And like, I still needed to get an education. I still need to go to college. I still need, even though it was in a non-traditional way, I think that was kind of, it gave me something to look forward to and work towards, even though I had this like little life. So I think just whether it's school or a trade school, vo-tech, whatever like invest in yourself I think would be my biggest advice. That was so inspiring seeing the clip of you carrying

Isaac in a baby carrier to orientation like going all around like what was the how was that received by like your classmates and your professors? So that was I originally went to a community college after graduation. And I think that people were, the cameras were already really weird. And then seeing a kid there, I think they were like, oh wow, but then they,

I don't know if they ever showed this, but when I went to the four year university that I ended up graduating from, I physically brought my kids to class. Like I would bring them to my night classes and they would sit, there was, in one of my classes, it was sort of my night classes and they would sit there was in one of my classes, it was sort of like a studio and they had like this back room and my professor just let me like leave the kids in there like they would color or they would like do whatever

they were doing. And so I think the first two like one or two classes, I think that class was like two or three days a week, got a lot of questions, but it was like, it was sort of fulfilling to me in the way that like, they sort of, they respected what I was doing and like, I'm still doing what you're doing. I have kids, but I'm still, and I was pregnant with my third at the time. And so they were like, what is going on? And so, but I actually ended up forming really, really good relationships with those classmates. And one of them even still worked for me up until last year.

Wow. So I was able to graduate. I think we graduated the same year, the same like in May. I think some people might have graduated in December, but we graduated together and then he worked for one of my podcasts. Wow. So it was really cool to like hire someone that I went to class with. That's really neat. Yeah, it was cool. It'd be cool to see more of those spaces be more kid-friendly. So moms that don't have you know someone that can watch the kids could still pursue. Even if it would be like a daycare on campus or something I don't know what that would look like

but it would be cool because I think that not just teen parents but just parents in general that would like to go back to school that don't maybe have affordable child care. That would be really cool. Maybe that's my next mission. They're like advocating for child care on campuses. Yeah. It's so nice now with the internet, people could probably take classes online. Yeah. Like I was just thinking you could probably start studying to be a lawyer now with online

classes. I did talk to my attorney about that because he was like giving me advice and he did say that some of them you can take online. And it truly, it would have been better to take my LSAT during COVID, but whatever, we'll figure it out. I got to get Kristin to get her bachelor's degree first so that she could finish her undergrad and then we could go. But I got to do it with her or else I don't know if I'll finish.

Study buddies. That's so funny. Yeah, exactly. I love that. Well, I'm very inspired by, first of all, your self-awareness. You are a very self-aware, resilient, strong, inspiring person. Thank you. I want to ask too, because this is an article popped up when I was doing some research on you. I'm scared. No, no, don't be scared. I'm scared. But it was like something about how you wanted to have more kids even though you had gotten your tubes tied.

Yeah. So like, and this was an article from January. So I don't know if, is that true? Do you feel the same way? So I, we both got fixed for lack of better words. Um, I had my tubes cut out and then he also had a vasectomy and I think we both felt immediate regret because we were like, and they even said that on like the side effects of tubules. They were like, it's in the list.

It's like, you may have regret. And I was like, oh shoot. I didn't think I'd be one of the people that fell into that category because I thought like I was done. And then I had this whole thing about like, Valley doesn't have a sister and like I never had a sister and so it would be really cool to give her a sister specifically and like we could go through IVF

and just like have a girl. And then it was just like, I think it was like a pipe dream. And so not that I don't necessarily feel that way now, I just think that like, if we added more, it might take away from the ones that we have. Does that make sense? And so I like, if we didn't get tubules and if he didn't get a vasectomy,

like would we have had another, maybe it's possible. But then I was talking about fostering and that's not an option because there's too many kids in our household. So like we're like disqualified from that. Really? Okay. But I mean, I would be open to like private adoption probably like if someone needed,

because we have the means and we have the resources and we have the house and we have all the things. And like, I don't know, I would hate to see a child that grew up, that is growing up in a situation like I grew up and not have anywhere to go. And like, so I would be open to that, I think. That's really cool.

Yeah, like I just, you know, helping other people through the same stuff that I did, that I went through. How do you go from, I never want to have kids to now I have seven kids and I want to keep having more kids? Well, because I grew up and only try, I didn't even grow up with my cousins or anything. So I didn't have any like what my mom, I asked my mom one time where kids came from and she told me you have to pray really hard.

So I was like, okay, bet. And I prayed really hard and never got one. So I was like seven or eight years had gone by. So I was like, okay, where do dogs come from? We have to pray really hard. So I was like, okay, bet. And I prayed really hard and never got one. So I was like, seven or eight years had gone by. So I was like, okay, where do dogs come from? We have to pray really hard. So I prayed really hard and never got one. So I'm like, I'm doing all the things. So I'm like, I wanted a sibling so bad that I never wanted my son when I had him to grow up wanting a sibling. So then, you know what I mean? And then I met Elijah and I didn't want to deprive him either because he grew up with a really big family. And so if he wanted kids,

like I didn't want him to not be able to have his own. And so it just, I think it all worked out truly. And how do you make sure you're spending enough time with every kid? Cause seven is a lot to juggle. It's a lot. And I, there's so much research on like, oh, you know, parents can only, they tap out at four

and like the rest of them don't really get attention. But I make it such a point, like I just brought my oldest son to South Carolina with me, the rest of them didn't come. And then, like Lux and I are planning to have just like a mommy and me day and then Creed, he's like my little tag along. He's my four year old. So he comes everywhere with me now. And that's been fun. And then when the four older ones are with their dads, like this week, they're with their dads, I have the three babies at home. So when I get home from this trip, like I'll just be with, you know,

Rio is my little farm kid. So he'll go down to the farm and do all of our farm tours and make sure like that's just us. And then the twins, obviously, they have their own individual time. Cause one of them's in PT. So like I'm able to kind of do like those appointments with just him.

And then Valley is a force to be reckoned with. So I'm scared of her, but I, in all the best ways, she's just like into everything. So I have no, I really true. And then my second son, he's in sports, like big into sports. So I typically for nighttime sports, I don't take the other kids.

I like to just go with just him. Or if he has like a tournament or something, it might just be me. It won't be the rest of the kids, depending on what we have going on. So like they all get individual time, like on a weekly basis, not just like here and there. I love seeing your video with your oldest going

to the guts tour to go see Olivia. Oh yeah. That looks so fun. And then it like, it popped up him like showing his purple Stanley that he got. That was like a lottery, I guess, for that drop or something. And so I was like, let me, me, everyone that I know, like entered for him to like-

For the Stanley? Yeah. Is he obsessed with Olivia? Yeah, he loves her so much, but Billie Eilish more. Really? Okay. Which I'm also a fan, so I'm like, okay, cool. You have a good taste. Yeah, so all of us entered this like Stanley thing

for the Olivia thing. So, because if I didn't get it, then someone else would get it and then they would just give a good taste. Yeah, so all of us entered this like Stanley thing for the Olivia thing. So because if I didn't get it, then someone else would get it and then they would just give it to him. So we got it and he was really excited. That's so cool. I wish that I could say that I went to 100 concerts when I was 14 years old, but I never did. And so he's going to every all of them.

He's been to Post Malone, Morgan Wallen, Olivia Rodrigo, we're going to Billie Eilish. So he's just living the dream. That's so fun. I want to get Abby out to more concerts because I love concerts. I've been to like two, but Abby's afraid of crowds. Like it kind of freaks her out. So we just have to be mindful of that

whenever we're around a lot of people. I still have standing too, man. The last concert we were at I was like, they don't have chairs. Wait, no, here's the catch. If you ever go to one that has like the box, then there's food have chairs. Wait, no, here's the catch. If you ever go to one that has the box, then there's food and chairs. Ooh.

That's the way I would like a concert. It's just more fun that way, especially if you have kids. It's way better that way. And then you're comfortable. And it's usually air conditioned. Even better? Yeah, way better that way. It seems like you really found each kid's interest,

at least where they're at right now, and found a way to make that special one-on-one bonding time with them, which is like really cool. And do you think you would ever get married again? Yeah. I mean, I wear, we wear rings because we're basically married. So, oh nice. Yeah.

He owns the house in front of me. And so we just like have these like big responsibilities that I guess we're old enough to do now. And so we do all the things that married couples do. We just don't have the paper yet and we filed it once and then we never went. So we'll see. But if he asked me to marry him one more time. How many times has it been that he's asked you? Six maybe. You just said no every time. No, I say yes. But then we don't make the time because we have a hundred children. And a farm. And a farm. And I'm here. And I'm in New York after this. And so it just, we just haven't found the time yet, but it's coming.

Do you think that a big difference will happen in your relationship if you're all of a sudden officially married? So no, but yes. I'm like really big on like estate planning, wills, like all of that. And so like it would just change the dynamic of like my estate plan and like my will. Just like legal stuff. You know what I mean? But not like interpersonally in your relationship. Would it change anything?

No. No. I mean, we treat each other. I call him my husband, especially to people I don't know because boyfriend sounds so immature. So I'm like my husband. You know what I mean? I think it would just be solidify what we already have. And I love him. So I think that it would be great, but we just, I don't know how we would plan a wedding right at this moment. You brought up estate plans, wills, I think maybe trusts. Like who taught you about all of this stuff? How did you learn it?

Your friend. Okay, that's so cool. Cause it's not like you had the parents to teach you about finances or how money works or any of that. You kind of just had to learn it on your own. When I started Teen Mom and I started getting these like lump sums of money and I was just blowing it, like I'm talking nothing to show for it, blow it, didn't have any money left. What did you spend it on? Like was it a car? Was it?

Absolutely not. What? No clue. No, no clue whatsoever. So it was gone. And then I was like, OK, something. This isn't good. This is not good. And then I got married the first time. And I think I owed like $30,000 in taxes. And at that time, it was like 2012. So I was like, oh, my God.

Like, what am I going to do? I owe $30,000 in taxes. So it's like I better get a good accountant. So then I got a good accountant. Kristen and I met around 2012, 2013. She became my best friend and she had all this like wisdom and knowledge. So I was like, Oh my God, I need help. And so she kind of got me involved in the right people. And, and then I was like, also I'll pay you for your wisdom. And so then she started to work for me and got me,

we have a financial advisor, a really good accounting firm. I have like a whole estate plan with trust. All the kids have trust. And yeah, I still have a hard time like asking my financial advisor, like should I do this before I do it? I usually do it. And then I'm like, Hey, I did this. But outside of that, I feel like I'm in a good place right now. I never wanted to be back in a situation because I just got a credit card for the first time last year. No way. Yeah, so that was my first credit card,

I guess two years ago, but that was my first credit card. I was so scared because I had owed $30,000 and I was terrified of ever putting myself in that position again. So now I just do everything through all the estate planning and all of that. And the kids have like their trust set up,

but it's been a long learning process for sure because now I teach my son he gets paid from social media so I have to tell him okay go in take your taxes out because technically the taxes aren't there and taken out and so he takes them out and then he splits between his different accounts and every single time when I get the notification that he's a an income coming through and like get on and do that whole thing so I'm trying to teach him so he doesn't have to go into debt like I did. Does he have a manager or anybody? No, a momager. So do you negotiate for your son whenever he wants to work with him? He just got his very first brand deal last week so that was our first one and it's all at his

discretion like if he doesn't want to do it, I would never, ever, ever push him. But he came to me and was like, I really want to do this. And I was like, oh, okay. That crazy. Yeah. That's what every kid wants to be now.

It is an influencer. Yeah. Well, his was like ASL based. So he's fluent in sign language. So he wanted to do it like for sign language. But then it spiked, like he never, I don't think any of us thought that his Instagram would pop off from that.

But I think people were so fascinated, more so not by the ASL, but because he was a teen mom child. That is cool. But it worked in his benefit. And now here you are again, multiple podcasts. Are you going on tour by the way? Is that something that's gonna happen?

I actually just got the email this morning for like all of our tour merch and like stuff that we're working on. And I'm just, I have imposter syndrome so bad that I'm like, I don't, do you think I can sell out? Like, do you think I can sell tickets to go, to come see? Like, I don't know. So I'm a little nervous.

Where all are you going? I believe it. So I'm gonna do four dates in the fall, like this fall. And then depending on how ticket sales do, I was like, I can't commit to a full tour next. They want me to tour from February to May. But I said, I'm not gonna commit to that until I see how these first four shows do

because I'm not gonna embarrass myself. So we'll see from there, but I guess like February to May would be like the idea for next year. So where are your first four at? The first four, right now we're looking at Dallas and San Antonio and then two in Ohio and one in Philly. Okay. So those are the dates, those are the cities. Very cool. Exciting. You guys should also go on tour. I don't know man, I mean like what do you think Abby? It's a no for now. I'm just like, I can't, I can't. Are you also potentially going to write new books?

Is that something that's going to happen sometime in the future? Yeah, now that we're book girlies, I don't know if it's the age or what, but I definitely want to also repackage the books I already have because they're really like, just need new covers, need some little adjustments. And then I'd like to write a novel and not do like any more memoirs. Because I think people have had enough. So I would like to write a novel. That would be cool. Like a fiction. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe like a thriller suspense deal. I don't know. Is that your favorite genre? That and historical fiction. I'm a big historical fiction. I never thought that I would be a historical fiction girlie. I never thought that. And it feels more educational when I read history.

Well, that's what I was telling Kristin yesterday. I started reading by any other name and by Jody Pico. And it's about like this woman, the first poet to ever be published in England. And it was like it's like in the 1500s. And why am I so invested? I mean, there's pedophilia, there's cheating scandals, there's all kinds of things. And I'm like, why am I like, what was going on in the 1500s? Crazy stuff. I love it. So I recommend that one. Uh, I would I feel like historical fiction But if not, then no, did you read the women I did I read the women and the nightingale? Did you yeah, so good. What do you think of the women?

That's a that's a renew release mat. So people will care. Oh, okay care. Oh, okay. He was trying to cut out my book portions. No, I didn't cut it. Our editor cut that out. I didn't. Okay, our editor cut it out. Do you have a Patreon? No, we don't. Put them on a didn't know if you'd want it. But then also if we did do it, there would be absolutely no ads at all on the episodes. So you guys let us know in the comments because we've thought about it, but we want to put you guys first and we want to do what you want us to do. It's a yes from me. I'm curious on your thoughts on the women, really quick. Well first of all, I was shocked by what was going on between Vietnam and the US, but also I didn't realize what was going on with women during that time.

I had no idea that that was like women were not supposed to join the military or be like My grandma was in her 20s then. It was not that long ago. My uncle served in Vietnam. So I was just thinking about his whole family and I'm just thinking, how did all of this go on and it just flew under everyone's radar? It was sad to read about. I did rate the book five stars though. Get on Goodreads because you can rate the books and I'll give you a rundown before then. Okay, thank you. I love Goodreads as a consumer, not as a poster, but I want to. I will.

I'll rate you on my Instagram. That's it. It's not officially on Goodreads. I'm the number two most followed person on Goodreads. What? Yeah. So you should get on it. I should have known that. That's so cool. Wait, that's awesome. Good for you. There's like a whole chart and like, Frieda McFadden, Colleen Hoover, like all that. I think it's right now it's Frieda, me, Colleen.

What? Yeah. You never cease to amaze me. Is that how you got Colleen on your podcast? Probably. That's pretty cool. I mean, Colleen is the sweetest. Did you see the movie yet? Yes. Abby just saw it. You should go see it as well.

I shouldn't say this because you know Colleen, you're like buds, but I actually thought the movie was better than the book. Which I know was an unpopular opinion and kind of blasphemous to say, but I thought the movie was just so incredible. It was so good. Last but not least, are you potentially gonna bring

a new show to your podcast network? Is that something that's happening? Am I allowed to say yes? I'll just say it, I don't care. Yeah, so we are not bringing a show from, so yes, there's a new show launching on my network, but there's also a TV show that is in the works. So there's two separate things.

So you're not done with reality TV? Probably not. No way. We're just gonna revamp it. We're gonna reinvent the wheel a little bit. No way. How cool. So yeah, but new show on Killer Network is launching

in 2024 and I'm really excited. I think you guys should maybe have them on your podcast as well and maybe you guys could do a swap. You guys can go on theirs. I don't know. Let me know. I'll tell you about who it is. Am I allowed to say who it is? No. Okay. I'll tell you guys after. Okay don't know. Let me know. I'll tell you about who it is.

Am I allowed to say who it is? No. Okay. I'll tell you guys after. Okay. Very cool. We're so excited for you. I'm so inspired by you coming from nothing and then just being so successful.

I hope that's inspired other young women, young men out there listening to this right now. So thank you. Yeah. Thank you for being here. If you guys. Yeah. If you haven't checked out Caitlin or by the way, yeah, you go by Kail, right? Kail, Kailin, whatever.

Yeah. It's all the same. Haven't checked her out on social media. Go follow. Where can people follow you? At Kail Lowry on everything. Goodreads, Instagram, TikTok. Everywhere is Kail Lowry. And also my network is Killer Network on Instagram. Well, thank you guys.

And as always, Peace out dudes!