The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby - Zach & Tori Roloff on Leaving ‘Little People, Big World’, Raising Kids with Dwarfism & Mixed-Height Marriage

Episode Date: July 24, 2024

'Little People, Big World' stars Zach & Tori Roloff open up about leaving reality TV, parenting children with dwarfism, and navigating their mixed-height marriage. This episode is sponsored by Factor & Nutrafol. Factor: Head to https://factormeals.com/unplanned50 and use code UNPLANNED50 to get 50% off your first box plus 20% off your next month. Nutrafol: Visit https://nutrafol.com/UNPLANNED for $10 off your first month’s subscription and free shipping. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Go back to school with Rogers and get Canada's fastest and most reliable internet. Perfect for streaming lectures all day or binging TV shows all night. Save up to $20 per month on Rogers Internet. Visit Rogers.com for details. We got you dwarf army. I did not marry that dwarf. I would not wish dwarfism on my kids. There is a lot of suffering There's a lot of mental toughness that needs to happen. There's a lot of medical complications that come from it No one would pick dwarfism over average height words have different meanings through different years little people of America Started out by M people of America No way We sat down with Zack and Tord roloff who made headlines earlier this year for announcing their departure from little people big world

after 25 seasons now with three kids They've been very open online about the pressures of reality TV as well as what it's like to raise kids with dwarfism We talked about everything from Zach's parents very public divorce to why it's offensive to use the M word So what's funny is we actually I'm pretty sure ran into you at Disneyland or Abbey's. Yeah, are we stealing the story? Oh, you're thunder, babe. I can't move. I didn't think you guys saw me and I was like, stop, we didn't think you saw us.

That's so funny. Okay. You were sitting on a bench, we're right in front of Tower of Terror, okay, and I walked by and like I scroll Reels like on Instagram, whatever, whatever, and you guys did dancing videos at the time and I told Tori, I go, Tori, I could have, you were holding your child. Yes. I'm like, I could have sworn I've seen that girl on Reels or whatever.

Yeah. Right? It was just you sitting there. Yes. You must have been on the ride or something. Tori was a little ahead. So you saw Tori too then? Yes. I did not see you guys.

I'm pushing the cart and then yeah, then later on that night I'm like, I need to, I saw her, I know it. And so scrolling reels, I'm like, Tori, these are the people, you know. And then two years later, like, podcasts are popping up. And I'm like no Tori yes I've seen these people and then you're sending us an invite and I'm like you're like

we already met yeah kind of so I totally remember that Matt you went on a ride I think while I was like I had to nurse Griffin because we didn't even have Augie at that point and so I was like nursing him and then I was like kind of stuck on the bench and I was like or might have just finished or something like that and I was like wait a minute I the bench and I was like, I might have just finished or something like that Yeah, wait a minute. I recognize them I just remember Abby telling me like Matt some people from Little People Big World are here like I just saw them Yeah, and so they're just for fun with your family. I'm kind of a fan I wouldn't call myself a Disney adult. I'm not like weird but I do like going. That might have been our last trip with the whole family though. No that would have been...

That was 2023 if you're... Oh really? Yeah it was literally last year, last January. That trip uh Tori's gone with like Jackson and her friends. I know I do kind of like going with my girlfriends now. It's a little less stressful. Our littlest one, that was a little uh it was a little much so we're gonna wait till they get a little older. Yeah, totally. But Tory's a huge Disney fan. Yeah. You like it, you don't like it as much? Yeah, I like it.

He's married to it. He's married to it. I don't like a lot of crowds. I don't like, like I would go camping, you know, versus, you know, I don't like a lot of crowds. Yeah. The rides, like that's cool, but you know, but Tory loves it.

That's so true. Did you guys get stopped a lot while you were there? Like does that happen whenever you're out with your family people are like, oh, it's the people from the TV show fair amount Yeah fair amount if we're waiting in line if we're like cruising everyone's cruising, you know Everyone's getting to their next pass pass or whatever like that. Yeah, like it's not so much but like Waiting for the parades or whatever. We'll get a fair amount of people's mostly with me like I just can I tell the story yeah yeah so I just went for we were there the weekend of the Super Bowl and the next day the MVP goes to Disneyland so Patrick Mahomes goes to Disneyland the next day and we're sitting there watching the parade and all of a sudden this woman comes up

to me crying and she was like so excited to meet me and I'm literally like honey Patrick Mahomes is like right there she was so sick to like meet me and say hi. His wife is best friends with Taylor Swift. Like it's usually only when he like people recognize him or family members but that's where we're starting to get there though that's so funny yeah we were also I mean I know you said you're not technically a Disney adult but I would say we kind of are in a way I mean definitely are yeah I mean we just we just love the parks and taking our kids like when you see your kids go to, it just makes it really special. Oh, totally.

That's what it is. If the kids are loving it, the family's loving it, I love it. I would not go like. He would not choose it on his own. Yeah, I would go. Yeah. And three kids, like how is life with three?

Cause we have two and I feel like it can be, it can be a bit hectic, but I'm curious how three feels being outnumbered Yeah, it speeds up pretty fast Yeah, and every kid is different Our first kid, you know, we're like, oh, this is great. And then the second kid, okay, it's doable Like she'll have the baby. I'll have Jackson or you know, she'll have Lila out Jackson or vice versa I'll take Lila but then yeah three artists with three right now like it's all great

But like jackson's in one speed, you know, he wants to like go outside and ride bikes or like hike The others can't do that yet. You know i'm saying or like So you have three kids all at different play speeds. You know, i'm saying like one like the baby Is indoors crawling or Josiah's not crawling he's walking now but you know I'm saying a little bit you're at these different phases or nap times are different. Right. Jackson's not a nap anymore Josiah's still taking two naps you know so that's like that was I thought that was the hard one of the harder things is just you have different I feel like and they all have different needs Jackson is

still craving for that like one-on-one that he remembers that one-on-one attention so he's constantly trying to crave for that and then but then Lila is you know kind of stuck in the middle we kind of bounce her back and forth hey go hang with Jackson or she's with Josiah she goes in between of being like the baby to like to be with the older kids and then Josiah is just trying to figure it all out. Well Josiah has such bad FOMO, you know, he's only two and he cannot chill. Like if the kids are outside, he needs to be outside. If the kids are doing rides, he needs to...

And like sometimes you're like, dude, you're two. You cannot do everything that everyone else is doing and that's hard. That would be like, yeah, you got a lot of different needs and you want to fulfill all of them, but you can't. You know, like, so. Like, we're only two people. We only have four hands. Yeah.

So what was, this is the infamous question, but what was the hardest transition? Zero to one, one to two, two to three. My world got rocked from one to two. OK. From going from our oldest was also so easy. And I say this, we talk about Lila all the time about being our difficult one and she's so chill now, but as a baby she was hard.

And going from our first being so easy dream, no problems with anything, to a baby who was very colicky and threw up a lot and just took a lot of time. Jackson wasn't super about it. Jackson did not like her. He was like,'t super about it. Jackson did not like her. Yeah, he. Aw. He was like, send that thing back. It's not just her.

I think it was mom and dad's focus. Oh, for sure. You went from, you are the, that's your boy, and now you're, hey, Jackson, sorry, like you need to play by yourself. We need to do this with the baby or whatever. And that concept, I'm very big on like child psychology. In another world, I would have been a child psychologist.

Like the selfishness of kids and the self-centeredness that they have. And then, you know, so like they, the world revolves around them. And then when they come to these moments of it, not, you know, but they're trying to still seek that out. How do I please, you know, how do I find that again? You know, so that's trying to still seek that out. How do I please you know, how do I find that again? You know, so that's um, that was probably the toughest you agree

Yeah, one to two for sure then three you're just kind of in three was just like he was always here. Yeah Jackson Lila both loved Josiah as a baby like Jackson's response to Lila being born and the dressage was totally different Like he was all about it. Yeah and Lila's like such a little mother hen that she just stuck right into it. 100% so. Sweet. One to two was rough though. You made a pretty big announcement not too long ago that you were leaving the show Little

People Big World with with being on reality TV for so long I think Abby was like Matt it did it the show's been going on for over 20 seasons. Like that's, that's 25. Like that's, that's crazy. How many seasons have aired? I'm curious how on the still on the topic of kids, how you talk to your children about, about TV and about like, yeah, when you're at Disney

and someone comes up and says hi to you, like how do you, how do you, how do you talk to your kid about that? It's our burden. I would say it's our, when a fan comes up, Jack, the kids don't really vibe with fans a lot. And I get it. And sometimes fans can be, fans are great, but there are fans in a reality TV setting,

they think they know us, they think they know our kids, you know? And it is, it's the path we chose like to show them on the TV and we show them on social media. But then it's our burden in person to handle that. So most of the times, you know, if a fan walks up to us, it's, you know, Jackson, you know, keep going or follow mom. And then I'll that's our burden to handle that interaction. I would say it wasn't like the only there was so many reasons why we left the show it wasn't the only reason but that was a big part of it

was you know our kids all of a sudden were becoming more aware of people recognizing them or having to like come on from school and film and you know that wasn't what they wanted to do and And so I felt like that was a big reason for us stepping away being like, we wanna give our kids more space. We wanna give them a little bit more. It's a stressor too when you're like, I feel like reality TV is like a different industry

than a lot of other industries. Like if someone works at Intel or Nike, like dad works at Nike, mom's at home taking care of the kids, great, and then dad distributes, pays for the family to do whatever. Reality TV, it's a little different. It's not me, it's not just Tory.

The kids are the employees also, you know what I'm saying? It all relies, we're all building the family wealth together. You know what I'm saying a little bit? It's a little less, you know, just the dad is making the actual, like the whole family is growing together and the dad, the family supports, you know, or the mom, whatever. But reality television, there is like some, you know,

production days that the kids aren't into it. You know, it's stressful for us because, you know, so those days got more and then it was time to kind of say like, hey, and again, there's a lot of other reasons though, but like, we're like, hey, this is a good point where we need to isolate this and become a little bit more mom and dad are the breadwinners. That's not the kid's burden. And that's not their, they already have so much other stressful things in their life,

like eating vegetables and going to bed on that. So like, you don't need to also add, you know, adult stress to them too. Isn't it so interesting though, because like, okay, obviously for a very long time, like I'm for thousands and thousands of years, like kids have been a part of helping, you know, take care of the family farm or whatever. They've been, you know, kids have always been involved in family businesses in one way or another. Obviously with child labor laws in the past century, like that's been really good to help protect kids and make sure that they're going to school with reality TV.

It's not just like they're helping the family business, but they're also, like their private life is out as well. And a kid that is, you know, helping take care of a family farm, it's not like the whole country knows the inner details of their life. I would say, yeah, it's a very public job versus, yeah, like helping out picking weeds or planting seeds or whatever. Yeah, there's a different dynamic there.

It's personal, it's not business. Yes. It becomes personal. And there's a, you know, the kid's not feeling well that day, great. Someone else in the family will plant the wheat seeds that day and you guys like live on a farm, right? So is that is that something that we live on we live on land? Oh, yeah I wouldn't necessarily call it like farming. I think you have to have like cows and okay We got livestock. We got like yeah, we got like the you know, the classic four chickens and two tomato plants and like a cute little garden

You know like we spend 800 bucks on our little garden to get two strawberries. So, oh yes, you're like, we're gonna savor these. Yeah, we are, we are, but like, you know, we're homesteaded. There's something about that though, like I was just eating blackberries here in Nashville and I was like, Abby, these blackberries taste like the blackberries my grandpa grew on his farm, because when you grow stuff yourself It has a different flavor and taste so that what do you guys grow on your farm? Is there oh my gosh? We have snap peas right now like literally this whole trip. I'm like gosh I could really just go for some snap peas right now. We do the snap pea

We have four chickens a couple strawberries and a few blue bird blue So it's like a small it's not like a farm strawberries and a few blue bird blue. So it's like a small it's not like a farm, but it's you know, but the kids love it that we do it for the kids to they love going out there Jackson like picked out all the seeds with me helped me plant the whole box. You get your first experience. Oh yeah. Well, and we both are like, I am terrible. Like I have a black thumb a hundred percent.

So it's like we're learning together how. Yeah. Like to plant stuff, taking care of like animals, too I feel like it's like chickens like having the kids go out there water feed them, you know But we're the worst though, like we couldn't be a farm specifically just because we couldn't take care of livestock I feel like we have a dog and Chickens and that's rough. It's the dream. That's rough live on our farm You know the things I want to do don't actually always pay

You don't think yeah, I would just work on our property all day long Yeah, and he's good at it too. That's good at like keeping it up and that's awesome But it doesn't you know, that doesn't pay the bills. Do you think your decision to step away from the show? Do you think that that was partially influenced by your experience growing up in reality TV? Yeah, I think things just kind of caught up a little bit. Family drama, family dynamics. Like it was all of our family.

I had three siblings stepped away from the show at different times. And then my parents divorced and like that storyline was like on me. My, sometimes to like fans or whatever critics of the show will say like something about me. I'm like, hold on here. I got three other siblings that are all saying the same thing, thinking the same. Just because I'm the only sibling on television, not mean I'm like the only family member here

that's saying these things. You know what I'm saying a little bit? Or like upset about something or. So that kind of caught up a little bit. And then, I don't know, it's just time to move on to like, again, the family dynamics. As reality TV grows, you know, reality TV is reality TV, but there's also context within that.

You have the demand to make episodes every week. No one lives a life that can actually produce a reality TV episode every week. You know what I'm saying? Like, that's not reality. You go on like a summer vacation one time a year. You know what I'm saying? Like, reality TV, there's a constant, you know.

So sometimes you also need time for life to naturally develop. And then, yeah, you mix that with the kids and then the family dynamics were kind of broken at the time. So, and then, yeah, growing up. I'm like, hey, we're young enough that we could pivot, you know verse Like, you know, we're 50 or something. It would be harder to pivot you can still do it. Lots of people do it. But Hey, you know, it's time to let's see what other opportunities are we not seeing something because we're in this, you know Not cushy job, but like are we comfortable here and I'm not seeing other opportunities are we not seeing something because we're in this you know not cushy job but like are we comfortable here and are we not seeing

other opportunities so take away maybe a little bit of comfort but a lot of stress also but take away that comfort and let's see what other opportunities are out there. Well and I always say too and I feel like you don't always agree with me on this but I always say that like the show used to be an educational show it used to be an educational show. It used to be educating the world on dwarfism and what that meant. And it kind of, somewhere along the lines,

became a relationship show, and it became about family dynamics and relationships with others. And it was just kind of like, I don't know. Reality TV developed too, though. Totally, totally. I feel like we were one of the first ones out there. But it's like, I think even when we first started dating,

it was, like it's exciting and it's fun, but it's still kind of that interest of like, what does it mean to have dwarfism and date somebody of average height, and what does that look like? And then when they throw in the drama with it all, like Zach and I are the least dramatic people on the planet.

Like truly, we're like, we don't fight a ton, we don't do these extravagant crazy things. And so there comes a time where it's like, this just isn't us. Like we're trying to like make these. And like there was a lot of cool opportunities that came from the show and it's not something that we would ever regret.

Like we met so many cool people, got to do so many cool things. But at the same time, like would we have done those without the show? Probably not like we were just kind of more low-key I think it's harder to like when you it's hard to say what you could have done or whatever Yeah, but also with the comfortability growing up like we weren't poor Like then the show came along and everything like that. So it is easier to also say like I have some moral grounds here

I don't want to talk about this. I don't talk about about that I don't want to we're not gonna fight on camera even if it is for TV like even in front of like our some of our best friends like we we don't fight in front of people so I do I guess I'm saying we acknowledge that it was easy for us to also say no we're not doing that for someone that's like up and coming or someone that's like they need the ink yeah and like they will do whatever it needs, they need to do, you know what I'm saying? Was there pressure to have conflict on camera?

Oh yeah, I would say so. Not direct, but like yeah, we understand the industry, we understand it, like they're not, I would always say like a production day has like 15 people, like I don't know, the budget just for that, like they're not here just to film us sitting on the couch. There's a demand here. They're very TV's like that though any industries like that I feel like there's a lot of things that are said or like

they can say like oh we didn't say that you know but it's like everyone knows what we're here for. I'm not criticizing the industry necessarily, but there is like a context of like. Of course, it's a business. How did that affect you too? Cause obviously drama does well for TV. And so in the midst of your parents' divorce, how did that affect you with that being public?

Did people come up to you and ask you questions or I'm just curious. Or even having to do interviews about it during that time. I avoided a lot of it. Like I was pretty, yeah, I was pretty staunch and kind of avoided like elaborating too much because it is, I feel for, you know, kids, parents gets divorced at a young age. It is mom versus dad. You got team mom and team dad, team Matt, team Amy,

you know what I'm saying, amongst the fans. That's honestly what you got more than anything was like fans would come up and just like take sides and you're like, whoa, this is awkward. Or they're like, I love your mom, which is implying I do not like your dad. Really love your dad, Your dad's so great. And it's implying that maybe they,

you know what I'm saying? Like it's a, so like no one said like, what do you think Zach? But like, I wouldn't say no one. It probably happened. There's definitely some bold people out there. We did some private, I was doing private tours at the farm at the time.

And yeah, those, now that I think about it, there was some conversations there that people like, hey, what do you think? But no one like on the street was like, Zach, oh my gosh, you're from the Little People World. Hey, what do you think about your mom and dad? You know, so. Yeah.

In private settings with fans, those questions probably came out more, so. But again, it wasn't like, there was the pressure of I was not the only sibling in this you know and then Tori and me are like you know getting married and promising our life to each other at the same time a very public divorce is happening and so it was that part was like just kind of it was unfortunate it is what it is you know but um yeah just certain things like that eventually just kind of caught up you you know, and again, don't regret anything.

A lot of doors were open for us and everything like that. And it was a cool experience. I feel like I understand how certain things work in like every day. The news, like behind the scenes of almost any camera work, you know, like there is an interesting I'm always asking like, I wonder what actually happened there. How was that? What's the reality there? You know, so, yeah.

Both my grandparents, both sets of grandparents in my family actually got divorced. And so I know my parents, when they were going to get married, they were like kind of hesitant at first because they had both seen that and been through that. And you mentioning that you got married at the same time. Did that, did that make you hesitant at all for marriage, seeing that play out? Thank you to Factor for sponsoring this portion of today's episode. The way I decide what I eat in the day,

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We started dating really young so that kind of. So in that context like I was pretty locked in. Yeah. Like we've been dating for like five years. Oh my god. Eventually, I'm like, bro, like, what are we doing here? Sorry, not bro, but dude. Dude. My brother got married the year before and so like it was the season of life. I think honestly, I think that if you guys stopped and thought about it, it did affect,

I don't know, I would say, like I feel like that conversation was there between your brother, with your brother, because they're doing all these like wedding things and really cool, you know, and I feel like that was probably kind of conflicting to have parents getting divorced and like that we're both stepping into marriage and I feel like that would like, if we would have stopped and thought about it we it might have been difficult but I think that we were so like full speed ahead we were excited yeah long engagement and like for me like yeah it was just this is what we're doing yeah he bought a house and was like moving in with his buddies and I'm like over here just like come on dude is at some point of us dating for like three years. I'm just enjoying it

like I've never dated anyone so I'm like I could do this. You know it was chill you know anyway my dad calls me up and said hey Zach there's a house for sale in the Bethany area like you know you're in I was in an apartment at the time like I wasn't going to college. I was at community college. I was like, hey, do you want to get in on this? What else are you doing in a way? Or you're not going to go to college, so maybe start buying real estate now. Get a house and see where that leads.

Anyways, I'm like, oh, sure. So anyway, we go check out the house. Great. Love it. Done. Easy. I'll take it. Yeah. Well, it was the best neighborhood and it was just- I'm like at work too. I'm like at work and that night I like get off work and he goes, oh, so I put an offer in on a house today. I'm like, oh, okay.

Yeah. She was a little upset about that because apparently we were supposed to be getting engaged and married. Yeah. Like looking at the house together, you know. Yeah. Oh. Yeah. It wasn't how I- like me and my dad were like that though. Tori like, it was carpeted, you know what I'm saying? It was this and that.

White carpet throughout the whole house. Location, location, location, you know. It was a good investment. You're like, I'll fix this. And that springboarded us though. That house springboarded us into where we are now. It's true. I can't even remember about it.

Yeah, it was all a good decision. But it was a little like the conversation It's the communication. Yeah, what are we doing? That's all we want. Yeah, that's all we want. So did that make you feel insecure when you're like when Zach goes and buys this house and you're like I'm wanting to Am I part of these plans? I was kind of like, okay, so this is it like we're done. We're gonna like move on last four years. It's been fun Oh, it was actually like that. It was actually yeah

Yeah, like yeah, it was a conversation like what are we doing anywhere? Yeah, and I had no and I think that's finally he was like Why do you care like it wasn't something you were talking about yeah, yeah Oh, what are you talking about marriage? Yeah, sure like we had been like talking about yet. Yeah. Or we were talking about marriage. Yeah, we were. For sure. We had been talking about the future and all that, but I think Zach would have dated me for the next 10 years. I did not equate that to like, this has nothing to do with our relationship. Where I'm over here like, I don't have kids, I don't have a family, what are we doing?

That's so funny. Then I lived with my friends for like two years and then- It was only like a year, wasn't it? No, because we had Brian and Jake for a full year. Okay. Okay, it was a year and a half. It was a year and a half. It was a year and a half. And it ended up being a lot of fun.

The dining room had like, it was a classic dining room. It was a foosball table. In the middle of the dining room. It was like 1980s decor everywhere. I think we kept the wallpaper up somewhere on the bathroom. Oh yeah, that floral wallpaper. So you guys met and started dating and it's being aired on reality TV. Yeah, you said earlier You made an interesting point about how the show started off educational in your eyes

And so I'm curious like what aspects the show got right in the area of like dating with Different height like a different height dynamic. I think it just normalized it, you know, like I think that it just didn't make it weird Or I argue this a lot like yeah the show went away from maybe more focusing on this educational point but just us being on camera I think was education mmm there's still a ton of power being on television people like if you're on television you're you're respected you're you're looked at in a different way yeah it's sometimes doesn't matter what you're on television, you're respected, you're looked at in a different way. It sometimes doesn't even matter what you're saying. People still value that a lot. So people with dwarfism could say,

I know someone on TV, there's still a value there, and that's an educational piece. Like representation. Yes, yes. So I always, sometimes, well actually we talked about this on our podcast about the whole Snow white and the seven I was listening you guys talking about that. That was so interesting Okay, I had a huge feelings about this. Okay, so elaborate. Yeah, well, it was a live action and they basically

Which you guys are Disney fans, I'm sure you've heard It has a movie enough they're doing fans I'm sure you've heard I'm gonna rant or you check me snow white and the seven dwarfs okay they scrapped the dwarfs in the story they updated the Queen which okay great they diversity actor or Snow White sorry they updated Snow White to be an Hispanic actress great well then Peter Dinklage you know Game of Thrones yeah I love that dude he's cool but yeah he had some opinions on this that scratched he thought we shouldn't be telling the story which is great then don't tell the story but then he was like oh but I like how they updated the Queen or Snow White and Peter Dinklage what was this actor?

Oh Rachel. They played in a movie together. The Hunger Games. So there's some politics going on here. So now they're remaking the movie, they just got rid of the dwarfs, okay? Okay, but what do they call them now too? Why would they get rid of the dwarfs though? Special. No, magical creatures. Magical creatures, but they have one token dwarf amongst these magical creatures.

If we're looking- But that's also more offensive to the dwarf community than like calling the dwarfs. So we're looking at updating stories and everything. You actually just went backwards. You actually just erased the dwarfism side of it. The disability, like we're a disability group. You just erased that whole image. So if you're gonna update the queen,

you can still make the movie. The argument should have been from Peter Dinklage, update the story. You don't have to talk about the seven dwarfs as miners in a cave or something like that. You know what I'm saying? Like a dwarf magical like creatures that are mining like that. You know what I'm saying? Like a dwarf, a magical like creatures that are mining for diamonds, you know what I'm saying?

You can update that side of things too. Get the Disney writers on it, get creative. It could have been like seven dudes that live in a town together in normal life. Maybe some of them are married and then Snow White comes in and they like decide to help her. You know what I'm saying?

There's other ways you could have done that but instead they just sidestep the dwarf problem the disability problem and just Erased it from the story. Okay, so I'm a little confused But I guess my question is did Peter think that they should switch up the dwarves or just did know that on their own? He thought they should this story shouldn't be told. Oh at all? Yes. Literally at all. Okay. So he said this on a podcast and I actually went back and listened to the podcast. They showed the clip, you guys probably know this. Oh I love that you went for the context. People do this all the time to us, the watch are like, are short and then we're like you didn't listen to the conversation. Yeah. Okay so he, I went back

and listen, he said something about it. The host I don't think understood what he was saying and so then he kind of like not got frustrated But like he said it a little bit more dramatic basically like went for the kill like they should get rid of this story Disney then came out and said we're putting a pause on this and they recreated The movie based on his comments. So his no recreated the movie based on his comments. So his comments... Do you know that for a fact though? I have heard enough that I think his comments because it made the massive news. They had Fox News had some person with dwarfism on their show talk. It was a huge... it was all about diversity and all this stuff, you know what I'm saying? Inclusion. So it was a huge topic at the time. So Disney thought that he didn't want there to be dwarves

in the movie. Yes, yes. He thought, and he thought the story was just dumb to begin with, which that's a different argument I'm saying. So my main point is there's power of being on TV, there's power of television, and to put seven people with dwarfism on camera in a major Disney movie, there's still power there.

So if the story is offensive, change the story. Don't change the characters. You know what I'm saying? Like, yeah, make them more like real people rather than mythical creatures. So you can, you updated the queen, made her diverse or whatever, do the same with the people, the, the, the actors with dwarfism. That was my thing. That was my big thing was, because to our original point,

there's power of being on camera. Even though what you're saying isn't always maybe educational, like it doesn't sound like a sermon or a lecture, there's still power with anyone, anyone with disability or anyway, there's power of being on camera. People, great power comes great responsibility. If you're on power people, or if you're on camera,

people then have an idea that you're maybe smarter than you are, or your words matter, you know what I'm saying? And so that's nice. Do you guys feel like a big burden to almost represent the dwarfism community because of the show, because of the platform? Does it make you, that'd be a lot of weight to have on your shoulders where you feel like almost represent the dwarfism community because of the show, because of the platform? Does it make you, that would be a lot of weight to have on your shoulders where you feel like

you represent a whole community in a way and you have to be careful with what you say and what you don't say. I feel like growing up on camera I was maybe a little bit like a teenager. I wanted people to leave me alone. Being famous. I wanted, you know, people were annoying, fans, you know, like yeah, I was 16 and kids with dwarfism would walk up to me at the LPA convention, Little People of America conventions, and be like so excited, and I just didn't want it,

you know what I'm saying? Growing up now, now I'm a little older, with three kids with dwarfism, I do feel more of a like, maybe this is my, and like, you know, when you're a kid too, like I had my issues of like Insecurity and you know, why did God make me like this blah blah blah, you know saying but now I think I've like maybe This is my lot in life. We've talked about this on our show of like where do we want to put raising heights?

You know Do we want to make it a show about like where we talk about? Stories with people dwarfism and growing up like that or do we want to go somewhere else? But I'm like, man, Tori, maybe this is our like lot, you know what I'm saying? Like this is our, this is what was given to us. And embrace this. You know what I'm saying a little bit? Like not denial, but like maybe we should go all in on this.

Yeah, it was it, you know, it could be a very cool thing. So yeah, I do feel pressure, but also like I embrace it though. Like I especially embrace it now. Like I, you know, 18 year old, 19 or 22 year old comes up to me, especially a boy. That's how I grew up living with some of dwarfism. All my friends are, you know, six know six two and running track and football and just

You know girls and all sorts of things. There's a difference there, but now I'm like, alright, I know what you're going through I want to help you inspire you and So here's one like even just liking or being friends with me on Facebook if that Helps you and your society, you know, gives you something to stand on, let's go, you know, give them saying a little bit. Yeah, be a resource that you wish you would have had like growing up. That's really cool. And like a role model because like you're saying representation is so important.

How did that affect you growing up? Like I appreciate you sharing how I don't know at the at the little people conventions people come up and they really love talking to you like how I But it seems like you didn't want that like how how did that I was really shy. I was super shy growing up So yeah that like and then people are like coming up to me and I'm like in a corner like I'm in a corner for a reason So yeah, it was tough like tough. I grew up with it though. It was fans and it was a lot of attention. I always say like,

you know, I can walk into the grocery store and like, I'm being looked at. And now like with the TV, for example, I'm still being looked at. Or an LPA where everyone has dwarfism, where you're supposed to blend in. I'm still being highlighted.

You know what I'm saying? So like there's no spot where I could just kind of not be looked at in a way, you know? And then when again, you're a teenager insecure, like we all know this, we all have insecurities when we're young and you just want to hide from the world. For example, maybe I'm kind of going away from the LPA part of it, but like you guys put a sweatshirt on when you're in high school and put sunglasses on and like look like every other teenager, you know what I'm saying? People dwarfism maybe never don't have that same luxury.

You're still standing out, you know what I'm saying? And like Tori may have debates on this, like she had insecurities growing up. I had insecurities and like I'm not saying my insecurities were more valued than hers or whatever, but I could still go into a grocery store and my high school insecurities are still there. Those kids. Where I've kind of grown out of mine. Yeah, acne or whatever else, or your insecurities

were just in your head. So there is a different, I don't know, thickness, or like there's a different thickness that I think develops over time. And then you mix the showing with it or whatever. So, I don't know. Yeah. I kind of lost where we're going there.

No, I appreciate you opening up. I think this is definitely helpful to people out there who can relate in some way. And also on the topic of kids, and we were talking about you guys having three kids, how do you speak to them about? dwarfism how do you how do you approach that topic and educate them on What you know why because obviously yeah your kids like they've been on reality TV and they also have dwarfism

So they probably notice sometimes like if they go into a story then someone might stare or something They're getting there. They're getting there. Jackson still, we're not very much, we're very like, when Jackson asks me questions, like, you know, I will then answer, but I don't think we're gonna give him the talk of you have dwarfism unless he asks us. You know what I'm saying? It's like, we're not gonna, you know, some people-

We're gonna let him come to, let all of our kids come to us with questions or- Yeah, some people are like, you like dwarfism and this is this and like they're not even he doesn't we just went to LPA And he's learning like dad. Why are you playing with all the kids? You know saying the kids the other adults my size. Oh, these are adults Yeah, he'd he'd like things because of their size that he thinks. Yeah had like he thinks I'm the only person with dwarfism Okay, and everyone else that are like me. They're kids, you know, you're the only adult Yeah, or he'll say like dad, you know, is he the same age as you and it's clearly like a 55 year old person with dwarfism

So he's still learning but he's getting he's you know, he's like, so he's still like- He's like, we don't correlate height with age and stuff. So he's still learning, but he's getting, he's, you know, he's in sports and he's realizing, you know, but he still hasn't like, he doesn't know. It's a hard thing to process though, because in our house, it's like normal, you know? I'm the weird one in our house, not weird, I shouldn't say that, but I'm like the different one

in our house. And I think I shouldn't say that. But I'm like the different one in our house. And I think it's gonna be like very difficult to kind of like know where to go and how to process all of it. Because I think we've said we really don't wanna make any of our kids dwarfism their identity. We don't want them to like, you know, think that that's all there is to them.

And so it's like having these conversations when they bring them up, I think is important because I think a lot of times, especially parents who have avatite that have kids with dwarfism, they tend to like, that's their life. Like they tend to kind of obsess over the dwarfism and the diagnosis and like the doctor appointments and all these other things and Granted we're very blessed that like our kids don't have tons of major like medical issues But we also just don't want them to think that's all that they are. There's some yeah more than Before the I get fact-checked by the comments That was the debate between our podcast going all in on dwarfism.

Because we do tell our kids that's not your identity. You know, that's not like you are Jackson, you are Lila, you are Josiah, you're not, you know, Jackson, the person with dwarfism. Yeah. Not necessarily, you know what I'm saying? But in terms of the podcast, that's our burden. And maybe that is, but also our opportunity. Right. So do you see where the conflict maybe comes in? In our home we don't want it to be all about dwarfism but in the public what we put out to the public maybe this is an opportunity to

educate inspire whatever else it is. You get what I'm saying a little bit? So yeah. I like that. I'm sorry you go first. No you go ahead ahead I'm curious like thinking like we have young kids too. We're just starting to go to like kids events and like kids play gyms like I'm curious if you ever had interactions where Children they don't necessarily haven't learned how to they've been socialized You know, they they stare when they see something or somebody that is different or they might say things that an adult probably wouldn't. I wonder if you've run into circumstances like that yet. I feel like directly with our kids, no. Okay. Not yet. However, you find kids that just stare. Like they like our kids just look a little different and so they stare and they're kind of trying to figure out

like like how old are you? You're operating like a 10 year old but you look like a 2 year old. Do you want, is that an instance where you would want the parent to step in and say something or like, see we've talked about this and it's, ooh it's very like, it depends. Like it really depends on like the situation. I think that when it comes to the kids I would probably be a lot more defensive but like we've had scenarios where kids look at Zach or my in-laws and they're kind of like Why why is your head so big or why are you so short? You know, cuz kids are just like blunt They don't they don't have any filter. They just ask those questions and I and Zach I think have no problem stepping in and just saying like, you you know, giving an explanation. Or if parents are like gracious about it and ask questions,

then like, I think we're an open book for sure. But it's those like instances that parents, cause I think a lot of times in society, they tend to shun their kids from asking questions that are uncomfortable. And a lot like sometimes parents will get mad at their kids for asking those questions and that's where it gets awkward and kind of like that we don't want that like we're like just be normal and just like ask a

question if we choose to answer it great if we choose not to go Google it just shush your kid like Jackson again we're at LPA, Jackson's staring. You know, because he's like, is this guy like dad's age or is he like, his kids staring? We were at a restaurant and our waiter had dwarfism and Jackson's just like, follow, and we're like, dude, like stop, stop. You wouldn't want to be stared at like that. Don't do it to somebody else.

But then we educate him. That person has dwarfism like that. So a lot of parents, I feel like in those situations when we're out in public, shush their kids, but they don't then follow up. So I get it, in the moment it is tough, you're like, that's super embarrassing, just shush. You know, like stop, let's go to a different aisle.

But then rarely do parents, I feel, follow them up. Like yes, that person has dwarfism, or that person looks a little different, but hey, it's not polite to stare. If you have questions, you can ask mom and dad later or something like that. I feel a lot of parents just don't do that and then they stop. Then they go keep shopping. You know what I'm saying? And that's where parenting, like the difference in parenting really comes into play where, you know, I think a lot of things that we do, we think are common sense, but then they're not to

other parents. There's some parents that wouldn't think to go and educate their kid after. Because they are just worried about how that made them feel. But the kid still has a question. He still wants to know why that guy's head is so big or why he's so short because I've never seen something before in my entire life. And I've been living on this earth for seven years. I've seen a lot. So Do you like those kid interactions or does it get uncomfortable?

It kind of back to what I kind of said like childhood trauma or like teenager insecurities. I hated it and so then like I've had to develop but it never went away even though I'm an adult. So my teenage like was saying, like my teenage insecurities of going into a grocery store and that there's kids in the aisle, avoiding that aisle because I don't want that interaction. You know what I'm saying? And I never grew out of it. So I could go to the grocery store right now or the toy section in Target and kind of relive

those experiences. So I've had to like change that mindset, you know, which is always kind of hard. Thank you to Nutri-Full for sponsoring this portion of today's episode. I can say with confidence that I take my Nutri-Full postpartum every single day. And Matt, what are you thinking about my hair?

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I know what the kids are gonna say to me, but my kids wanna go play. So that's helped me kinda like get over myself. You know, that's just, that's who I am and that's what's gonna happen. It's not like malicious or anything, but it's like, sometimes it can be super awkward. Again, you walk in, you just wanna be at the park

on the bench, your kids are playing, and you show up and it's like freaking nuclear bomb just went off in these kids' minds and they're like, who just walked into the park? You know, it's like, you just wanna play there with your kids. You know what I'm saying? I'm just here, it's a Wednesday morning,

like why are you guys here? Shouldn't you be in school? Okay, like. How do you anticipate that first time an interaction like that happens with one of your children? Is that something where if they don't bring it up to me, then I won't go and have that conversation or is it something where it's like you notice an inappropriate or not necessarily like you're saying not inappropriate but just like a curious question that gets directed

towards one of your kids and do you find that a situation where you would intervene or just talk about it later with your kid? It's just developing resilience in them. I don't know if that's his battle he's gonna have to do. That's how I look at it. Like in a way, like I know the instinct of like a mom or dad would be like to step in, but in my mind like he's gonna go through that his whole life and if he did you know all my kids decided Lila Jax is the one that's maybe dealing with that more on a soccer team whatever else

but he's gonna have he I can help him and give him support or whatever but like that direct interaction he's gonna have to deal with that I feel like that's where it's coming to play more though is like when we go to somewhere like a play, like a play structure or something that kids don't know him, I feel like that's where I don't really see it. But it's like, can I tell the story of one of his best friends? I won't say his name.

I won't tell his story. Okay, you tell it, cause you're way better at it. Is it the football one? Yeah, don't say their name. Okay, so Jackson went to school. His mom's gonna know, so I apologize. I had time to it, but don't yeah, don't say it there. Okay, so Jackson Just moved to battleground which took him out of his old school put him in his new school midseason or mid-year or whatever Like two weeks in okay. Jackson's a very

Social kid though. Yeah. Anyway, he comes he's very confident very social I love that he gets very good behavior marks usually And we came home with like a minus and a note and a whole nine guards Okay, I'm sitting on my chair second week of school and I'm ready. I used to be a teacher So I'm like, let's go like what did he do? Anyway, Tories like, you know, Zach Jackson has something to say, you know, you got a minus So I put my computer down thinking this is like he's got a minus I think of this is I'm I you know thinking this is gonna be a huge story anyway these kids were playing football and

They told Jackson. He was too short. Okay. You can't you're too short to play football Okay, well a teacher side and, brings all the kids together. That's not right, you know? Anyway, she brings the other kid together, basically evens the playing field and Jackson goes, I'm going to kick your butt and punches the kid in the stomach. Okay, my dude. That's why he got written up. Okay, he got written up for that. I'm like, no, heck yeah, okay. These kids are taking away the ball from him, telling him he can't play and he's going, he didn't

instigate anything. He didn't, you know what I'm saying? He's just like, dude, I'm gonna, let's go, okay? And he's telling me this story. I'm looking up at Tory going, Tory, I don't see anything wrong here. Like my man, okay? That's my dog, okay? And now he's best friends with these kids, okay? But like, he- And I get, okay, violence is not good, all that stuff, okay? But I'm like, no, these kids are just excluding him like that, and he like just says, dude. But now that we know, now that we know the family and the kid and everything that like, that's like I think has changed our perspec- like our outlook on how how kids interact because it was him just simply stating a fact he was not being

malicious he was not being a bully he was just like you're too short like you can't play with us we're older than you you're never seen it yeah they've never seen it but then once they like let him play and Jackson's like kind of good at football then they're like oh wait okay this is cool like we're good yeah but it's like it's allowing him, like he's gonna have to figure that out. And we've talked about this on our podcast, not to plug our podcast again, but-

Hey, go listen to their podcast right now if you're not subscribing to, it's not New Heights. Raising Heights. Raising Heights. Raising Heights. Sorry. New Heights is a good job. I apologize. New Heights is a good one too though. Yeah.

We say this, like I truly believe sometimes parenting with someone with disabilities, parenting is hard regardless and we don't do it. There's times we need improvement. But I truly believe raising someone with a disability, the parenting might have to be a notched up one. You don't get the same luxuries as other parents. Tory doesn't get the same luxury to be able to be a notched up one. Like you don't get the same luxuries as other parents. Like Tori doesn't get the same luxury to be able to

be as relatable with other moms. You know, you probably, how many times have you had a conversation like your kids are getting so big, our kids aren't getting big, you know. Our kids aren't in the same growth spurts as every other mom's kids, you know what I'm saying? So like those conversations, but then also parenting, I like, they're gonna have different challenges than every other mom's kids, you know what I'm saying? So like those conversations, but then also parenting, I like, they're gonna have different challenges

than every other kid too. They're not gonna be able to get away with as much, or like I would say like confidence wise, we wanna develop confident kids, you know, if you're six foot four, but really immature, but super good looking, you could probably get a girlfriend still, you know what I'm saying?

Like they'll kind of ignore that. If you're five, you know probably get a girlfriend still, you know what I'm saying? They'll kind of ignore that. If you're 5'4", immature, you know what I'm saying? Low confidence and everything. For example, you don't have the luxury of like, maybe I'm using dating as an example, but like good looks and the rest can. So developing confidence in our kids, you know, and maybe those situations also then call for certain, like we wanna step in as parents,

but I believe we don't have that luxury all the time because our kids, they're gonna have those challenges for a long time, they don't grow out of it. You know, they don't, you know, that acne is gonna still be with them, not to equate dwarfism with acne, but like It's empowering them to like develop those skills on their own Yeah, and maybe a little earlier than another child that's my belief and that's how I grew up and that's

That's just what for my kids. I want them to you know, so even though it might hurt me as a dad I want to step in There's certain situations from like and then when he comes to me though, when he comes to me, you know, give him a big hug and dad loves you and yes, this and that, but I might say like, hey, he's got to, you know, he's got to be a dog and just defend himself. I love how you brought up the point though, too, with like kids, like they, they're so new here. Like they don't, they they're not like they're not being malicious like you

said like they're they're just learning things about the world and other people constantly and they're what's the word I'm looking for like the spectrum of what they've been able to pull from it's constantly growing and so that is cool that like in a way you're open to helping expand that knowledge for them. You mentioned dating and it made me think about, we have a friend who's dating somebody from India and I didn't know this was still a thing but apparently there's still a lot of people in India that they're not a big fan of their Indian child dating a white person or something like that.

Oh yeah. And so I didn't know if that was a thing at all with you guys any if anybody was like, oh Zach like why are you you should date somebody who's also First did you ever did you in like growing up think you would marry someone with dwarfism or I did right. Yeah on the on the show. I said like I said I'm gonna marry someone dwarfism and I'm gonna have a dwarf army I got the dwarf army I did not marry that dwarf okay so I was I was one for two on that but no complaints was that I feel like the way you just said that I feel like you must have like shouted that statement was that some sort of like statement you said with pride?

Oh no, no, I was 14 and they probably said like, somebody made him say it. Yeah, the producer probably like kept asking me, I probably said it like this, I don't know, I wanna marry a dwarf and have dwarf kids. Yeah. Like, but now, that's what the development, now I'm like, I'm a little bit more proud about it,

you know, like, yeah, that's, you know, it's, you know, wanna be proud of, yeah, you want but like yeah average-sized dwarf we get that all the time is like yeah there's some people dwarfism that yeah like you marry it sometimes it comes within the dwarf community you marry someone else with dwarfism you know. Well I feel like that was the only place ever that like I ever really felt So when I first started dating him, he was kind of popular in the LPA scene. Not by my own doing. Like all the ladies kind of like, he was like good looking and had a TV show and all this stuff and so like the ladies were kind of into that.

And so I feel like when I came around- I could not be bothered though. You could not be bothered. But I feel like when I came around, it was a little bit like those like girls at LPA that had dwarfism, they were like, who's this chick? Like, why are you this girl? Like, what are you doing? All these years and then he just, yeah. All these like everyone, all these ladies are like vying for attention and like, oh,

who's Zach gonna pick? And then shows up with some tall girls. I don't feel like we got too much pushback though. We just talked on an episode like my dad I can remember like when I first told him that we were gonna go on a date my dad was a little like no like no you're not you're just kidding and I'm like no like I'm really gonna go like you know. My dad's very like black and white though and he had this like picture of like where I was gonna end up and what I was gonna do and like didn't really see

dwarfism being a part of that life. But then once he met Zach, now they're like. Are there many people that you know that have the same type of like mixed height? Oh yeah. Oh yeah. But I feel like we're unique in the fact that like all three of our kids have dwarfism a lot of,

cause it's supposedly 50 50 for us to have kids I heard you explain this on your podcast And so that that's kind of I think unique for us because a lot of our friends that have One person of average height and one person who has dwarfism they have at least one kid who has yeah who doesn't have dwarfism But we have we locked out got on three playing on more babies? We are done. We are done.

We are done. Yes. We have, yeah, it's so, we're done. We're feeling a little outnumbered at the moment. Our kids are great but it's not just our kids. It's, you know, Lila has a surgery, had a surgery, Tressiah has a surgery coming up, Jackson's already had a leg surgery. There's certain medical things with kids with dwarfism.

But then also having three C-sections, I'm like, I'm done. Oh, yeah. Like my body, I don't think can take anymore. We're, you know. We're content with what we have. Do you know, based on ultrasound, if the baby is gonna have dwarfism?

Yeah, the third trimester. Oh, you don't know till the third trimester. Which also is kind of like, kind of fine, because all my girlfriends, like they when they had had babies Their last scan would be at 20 weeks where we got to like go into 30 40 weeks to like, you know Track the baby We knew like I we knew before the doctors told us though. Really? Yeah I know our doctor was like a little especially with Jackson

She was a little nervous I think to tell us cuz because you never know how a parent is gonna react to their child having some diagnosis. I saw the nose, I saw the forehead. And she comes in with this piece of paper and there's red all over it, and she sits down and kinda takes a deep breath, and I think we said it before her,

we're like, okay, so he has dwarfism? And you can just tell, she was like, yeah, yeah, you got it. Okay, we're good. By Josiah, they were us like the second week. Was that a question like obviously everyone the question I was like do you want a boy or a girl like it's like oh which one do you want like was that a question for you guys is like do you want a child that has dwarfism or not with dwarfism were people asking you guys that question? Oh 100% yeah oh yeah and I think it would be rather bizarre for us to go oh yeah we really hope our

kid has dwarfism and is different from the rest. Like I feel like that was always such a weird question. Because who would say that? Like who? That's where it gets kind of tough. Like the question like, maybe it was your dwarf army. Yeah. No, we love our kids.

We love our kids. But it's not like it's I would not like tell like I would not choose that for my kids that there is a lot of suffering There's a lot of mental, you know toughness that needs to happen There's a lot of medical complications that come for me You know I'm saying so it's like but it's tough to say that and when I say this people will say like oh my gosh I can't believe you but it's like no reality is like yeah, I would not wish dwarfism on my kids necessarily, I like no reality is like yeah I would not wish dwarfism on my kids necessarily I wouldn't like no one would pick dwarfism over average height you know I'm saying

like people might say they will no because they know it's not actually possible it's not possible for me to actually redo my you know I'm saying yeah a genie is not right here you know so they don't say for their own security but it's like no like there is a lot of things that can happen, you know. And I think that's where like, you know, something that we've talked a lot about lately, you know, is the question of like, why would you bring kids into the world if they were going to be different and have disability?

When you know that you could have someone with dwarfism. And I think that like, as much as we would never wish that upon someone, that does not mean that your child cannot live a fulfilled life just be super inspiring and like be happy and all these things so it is like this conflict it's kind of back but it's like it's like the same as like you asked a parent like oh do you want your kid to be born with four fingers or five fingers like their life is still probably gonna be pretty fulfilled if they have four fingers yeah you know it's But no one's gonna say four fingers.

No one's gonna like say, I really hope my kid only has four fingers. That's a really good way of putting it. And you mentioned surgeries, are there certain surgeries that people with dwarfism have to get more predominantly I guess than someone who doesn't? Oh yeah, yeah. Like Zachary has a shunt, he has hydrocephalus. So average heights have shunts, but like if you go to a, here's my example, if you go to an LPA conference

and go to like the pool or whatever, so tubes in your ears, like lots of people have tubes, you know, 50% of a hundred people in a pool at an LPA conference probably have earplugs in their ears. You know what I'm saying a little bit? Like 50% of a hundred people with dwarfism have tubes in their ears, So they need earplugs Yeah, you know I'm saying like why why tubes in your ears? What is that?

or the water doesn't drain the way our Skeletal makeup is water does not drain Correctly, and so it sits there And so the idea is if water is not draining your hearing is really bad if your hearing is bad you might not develop speech the same or you have learned. You also get like ear infections and like other complications. That's one thing we're battling right now is we, I had tubes.

I do not want our kids to have tubes, but they go through these episodes where they literally cannot hear because they have water in their ears. But it's like tubes are permanent. Tubes affect the eardrum. you can still get ear infections with tubes and there's data now that maybe it didn't develop maybe it didn't affect the speech of people that didn't get tubes you know I'm saying well that's our data

though you can't put that on the internet well I'm just saying I'm sorry own like I'm observing that like yes people that you know didn't get the tube it didn't really affect anyone the same way they thought you know I'm observing that like yes people that you know didn't get the tube it didn't really affect anyone the same way they thought you know I'm saying and so we're kind of battling that a little bit like in our heads but there's other complications with like like our son has pretty bowed legs there like issues with spine Lila will probably need so out of three kids two of them already probably need leg surgery. And adenoids and tonsils are a big one.

They're breathing, we're mouth breathers. I always say if you go into our room, like we're in a hotel room and our three kids are sleeping, if your kids sounded like that, you would- You'd probably call someone. You would call 911. They're suffocating. You would call 911 on the spot. They just breathe loudly and snore.

Yeah, they're snores and they're- Oh, they're snores and they're like, stop. They've all had sleep studies already. Like, not have your kids had sleep studies, but you know what I'm saying? But it's that same like, on average. How many of your friends' kids have had sleep studies? No one. Like, all three of ours have already had sleep studies to see if there was something wrong. But we're also very blessed within the community because like there are some,

and I think that when we first got together and like I went to, they have like the World Dwarf Games every year and we went to in Michigan and I saw some things there that were really scary with kids like medical issues that I, they, it terrified me and I was kind of like, I don't know if I can do this. Like, I don't know if I can follow this path of motherhood

because that's all I really wanted was to be a mom and to have a family. And that was really scary. But then. Tori married me or, you know, fell in love with me. But then that concept, she did not see me as someone with dwarfism. I love Zach.

But then, you know, once you do get married, the concept of like, wait a minute, like these kids I have kids with this guy Right like that thought came a little later. Yeah, and that was scary And I was hard to like grapple and like, yeah, you know really decide You know if that's what I wanted for my life And I think with him because he has a shunt and that's like the scariest thing to me because it's his brain And he has something in his body and that like he's solely dependent on otherwise he will die. And that was like, hold on, like, can that be hereditary?

Like, can my kids get that? Like, I don't know if I can deal with that. You should not say that at a first date. Oh my gosh. First date, you're cracking out the medical questions. No, I didn't. He did not. Yeah, I got married and then I was like, oh just so... No, I didn't. You did not.

Yeah, I got married and then I was like, oh, by the way, I have this shunt that, like, my body relies on and it was a year ago, a year and a half ago, I had a malfunction. You didn't have surgery. And that whole big thing, it's like, so... Brain surgery? Yeah. I forgot to tell her about the house and I forgot to tell her about the shunt. And the brain issue.

My mistake. Wow. I'm sorry, I'm so clueless. What exactly is a shunt? Is it different than the tubes in the ears? Yes, it's different. Yeah, there's some reason. There's fluid on your brain.

The body develops fluid. It's a simple term. Like everyone has fluid on their brain. But yours gets it down into the stomach and, you know, deposits. Mine, it clogs up and hypothetically will drown the brain without a passage that gets it out. Oh my goodness. So it applies a ton of pressure.

So when he had to have surgery a year and a half ago, the shunt had malfunctioned. So the drainage had malfunctioned and fluid was just building up in his head. How did you know? It's pretty intense. Yeah, I had migraines for a long time but then eventually I was having a migraine every week and then you go to the hospital, you get sick.

And what they finally got me in, my heart rate went down to like, I don't know, I'm pumped with morphine, I'm still in a lot of pain. And then they finally saw it. It was difficult to see Because it was all scarred up or whatever So but then they did the transfer and Here and a half ago. Yeah, so you had like a six-month-old Yeah, I don't like thank you

Thinking I feel like every stage we've had a baby like literally every time you've had a birth He something would happen with him and his illness. I had to leave the hospital when we had Josiah because I had this massive migraine. And now that we know it was his... And I had these migraines for a long time and we just thought it was maybe stress induced or we literally ended up chalking it up just to like stress or whatever. Like all the doctors like, oh, you just had a newborn? Ah, that's probably what it is.

And I was always like, no, this is something else. This is not, I've been saying this for years. Finally we went to, we went to Salmon Creek twice and they sent me home. Finally we went to like OHSU, which is the big hospital in Oregon. And they're like, your shunt's broken. Like, you need to.

Thank goodness they figured it out. So I haven't had a migraine since then, which kind of makes me mad because it's. It's been 10 years. 10 years. 10 years Oh My god now I look back at it too like every time we flew Disneyland Every time we flew out trip that trip that we saw you guys he one day he was in the room Oh, I like I would just tell Tori. Hey, I need I need to sit for a minute

There's something like I have a headache or whatever. Oh my gosh, but now I've flown multiple times I'm like, oh my gosh was it the shunt for 10 years? To live without that pain finally. Yeah, it was pretty wild. It was annoying. But anyway, I don't know how we got that. I'm curious, talking about having newborns and stuff, I'm just curious, I've been wondering if pregnancy with a baby with dwarfism, is it different or is pregnancy and delivery about the same? So yes and no. Like a lot of women or families don't know that their child has dwarfism until after they've given birth. Okay. Because it's not something that their OB or doctor is looking for. There's also different types of dwarfism that

aren't as obvious. Like achondroplasia is not as obvious in the womb like until the third trimester. And so if you're not looking for it, it's definitely, like there can be complications with birth because their head is so big. So sometimes they'll end up in an emergency C-section or not be able to have a vaginal birth. But other than that, like, I don't know, I'm like convinced, and this is not scientific,

this is just my own, I've had three kids and they all had dwarfism and this is comparing to my girlfriends who had kids. They have this number of your amniotic fluid, how much fluid is normal for a pregnancy. And it's like 12 to something is normal. And I had almost triple the number of normal. And so I'm like kind of convinced that like your body knows

something is going on and something is different. And so it produces extra like cushion. Well triple's quite a bit more. It was, I was huge. Like I got huge during my pregnancy. And I'm like, this is so unfair. And that's what it was. Like the amniotic fluid.

Are the babies smaller? No, no, no, no. My kids were nine pound babies. Like they were huge. Oh my goodness. Well, and our first kid, like they kind of called it. Jackson, in my third trimester said he had dwarfism and he was born and they had to call someone in

to like, does he actually have dwarfism? Oh, cause he's so big. Cause our kids like, their features are a little less prominent than some babies. So no, they're like the normal. As a baby, it's the head. It's the head. Everything else looks pretty normal, you know So and they have this thing called I don't know what they call it starfish hands So like when he puts his hand raise your hand up. Yeah. Yeah, like your fingers touch Like this is not just me. This is like anyone

Some of a chondroplasia I should say This is like anyone with a chondroplasia. I should say Do that and they'll have like a feature. So that's how they that's how they found it on our son was like his You said a chondroplasia, yeah, is that the like the medical I'm an a chondroplasia I'm a yes. I'm a chondroplasia. I have achondroplasia dwarfism. People with dwarfism. There's thousands of different kinds of dwarfism. Peter Dinklage is an achondroplasia dwarf. Marty Kleba from The Pirates of the Caribbean, different type of dwarfism. I forgot his type of dwarfism, but so there's like my dad,

diastrophic dwarfism. But achondroplasia, there's hypochondroplasia, which is a type achondroplasia, but there's a little bit taller in the torso. Achondroplasia, which is a type of achondriplasia, but there's a little bit taller in the torso. Achondriplasia is basically if you and I sat side by side or sat together, our heads, you know, we're standing up, you're two feet taller than me, but sitting down, it would seem like we're the same, you know what I'm saying? So our torso is similar, it's just our legs

and our arms are affected, and there's other types of dwarfism where like the torso is affected things like that. It was interesting you brought up earlier like the mythical creature thing with Snow White and how you're bummed that you didn't see the dwarf community represented as much. Something that stuck out to me as I've like, because Abby watched Little People Big World growing up as I've like, because Abby watched Little People, Big World growing up. I never did. So she luckily, because of your show,

was a lot more educated about the community and knew a lot more. Education. Because I think, I wanna say like eight years ago, I don't know, I feel like I used the old term that people used to use to describe people with dwarfism. And Abby was the one who was like, no, that's no that's start with an M. It started with an M. I had no idea I was literally just using it as a descriptive word I had no idea that wasn't like a thing. It's derogatory. Yeah words are tough

the words are tough like you know even for me I've never been like a super PC guy like I know what you're saying I know what you're saying. I know if you're trying to be mean or not. You know, the reason I don't like that word is a lot of time I hear like sports people use it or like football players. They use it in a derogatory way. So it's like, so once someone say, why are you so offended? I'm not offended, but like, you know what you're doing.

You know what I'm saying? Like when you hear it, sometimes people use it to criticize someone if you're on the basketball court. So it's like, that's why you have given it meaning. You know, you have given it the negative meaning almost. But even like the word dwarf, I think is gonna be outdated in 10 years. Really, someone just two days ago at the lake said, this lady's like, hey, so like, are you a dwarf?

Like, is that, you know, and when she said dwarf, I wanted to say, I'm a little person, you know what I'm saying? So like even the words, so words have different meanings through different years. Little people of America started out, or a version of LPA started out by M people of America, you know what I'm saying, like back in 1930.

No way. So like it's like it, words change change over time you know. People ruin it. Yeah, but that's my thing is like why don't I like that word because typically people but yeah if some guy was like hey Zach has has the mail who's Zach oh it's you know it's the it's the you know the M that lives across the street oh yeah okay you're describing me, whatever. But again, I've heard the word enough times where I'm like, you're trying to,

it's on the soccer field or whatever, you're trying to hurt me. If that's the word you think about when you want to hurt me, you know what I'm saying? That's why. That's why it's not a great word, you know? So I don't know, it's a backwards. Some people get super, a little bit more about it.

Even Victoria and me have been educating ourselves. I keep trying to say people with dwarfism because it's not Zach the person with dwarfism. So it is like a language thing that like, and not a super big PC person, but I do feel how, like when I say it I'm like that is a good for someone that doesn't know it and then they don't just think of me as like oh the dwarf It's or anyone. It's the person with dwarfism. Yeah, they teach that in education

I'm sure you know that too. I mean teacher like the people first language it goes for like so many different areas It's just kind of like dignifies the person first before you're like, okay It doesn't defy the person first. Yeah, like it gives them a chance to defy themselves Yes That's so interesting to you saying that they can the LPA convention started off with a completely different name that had the M word That is interesting to me because it yeah It does show how language changes over time. Is the term little person, is that what we're saying be like the most commonly used term? I think yeah most people if you go to LPA

and say hey how would you want to be referred? I feel most people say I'm a little person, you know what I'm saying? Or they'll say like their idea now is like I'm Zach, like how would you want to describe your condition? So it's like sometimes people take it a little farther. But it is still, it's still hard. Like, where were we just the other day? Oh, we were at the mall and he like went into a store and I was looking for him, I couldn't find him. And it is still just this awkward,

like what do you say to people? This lady goes like, oh, who are you looking for? And I go, oh, my husband. And I wanted to be like the short guy, you know? But like, it's like kinda awkward when you're telling that like kind of awkward. I'm like it gets things done quick be like he's the shortest guy in the store. Our language has like that back to the I'm gonna go back to the snow white thing real quick. Is there sometimes when people make such a stink

about something though, and then it gets, you get almost pushed aside. So if we are, get so offended, you know what I'm saying? Like certain minority groups, I feel like, then the comrade, they go, we just don't wanna deal with that. So we're just gonna sidestep it, you know what I'm saying? Or like, I don't want to even invite you on a podcast or something, because I don't wanna like,

have to feel like I have to navigate those waters and you're gonna have it's a you know I'm saying a little bit so it's like sometimes that's my philosophy on all that like yeah assume good intent you know I'm saying don't get too up about it because then most people will just like hey we don't want to deal with that we don't understand it and yeah it's easier just to get someone else because we don't want to be canceled or we don't want to be it's like so it's it's it's a navigation a little bit and educating but also like having grace for people especially if someone grew up somewhere where they've never seen someone like that like okay they're not gonna know

the right language like that's totally normal I don't know the right language for all the minority groups you know I'm saying like it's a normal thing you know so that's really good of you to like hold that grace and yeah be open to questions and stuff like that yeah I respect that a lot too because I think you're I think a lot of people most people I mean there are truly horrible people out there in our world but like I think you know I look I want to do the right I look at our society as like a bell curve. Like, did you guys ever take statistics

where it's like most people on a bell curve are like, we're all, most people are the same, right? Like the majority of people are all like pretty, like chilling here in the average area. But then you got those outliers. So you have the people that are like really freaking good, like the mother Teresa's of the world who are so nice. But then you got like the psychopaths

that like do unspeakable things so I don't know but I think I think you're right most people don't have like they're not out to you know yeah we allow one psychopath to like dictate like I could be in here I've had a great experience in Tennessee but like one person come up to me be rude and then people say Tennesseans are so mean it's like no you had one interaction you know I'm saying like I feel like we do that. We allow those outliers to dictate how we talk and act when really, you know, everyone's pretty the same, more on the same wavelength than what we feel like what I feel like is told to us by media or whoever else.

Do you feel more relaxed now that you don't have camera crews around you? Do you feel like I have so much free time? Like, let's go get get into rock climbing, like what are you doing with your time now? It's raising kids, we are relaxed, right, but it's also figuring out what's next, you know, we still got three kids and what's the next, you know, job, what's the next, you know, it is, there's stress there as a parent, you know, and you want to give your kids a certain lifestyle, but then there's also, but yes, there's, this as a parent, you know? And you wanna give your kids a certain lifestyle, but then there's also, but yes, there's, this is the first time I feel like I've been on media

not controlled by either me or the network. You know what I'm saying a little bit? Like this is, so like there's new experiences like this. But yeah, it feels good. It feels good and we're it's definitely like scary it's scary yeah stepping away from a job like that and leaving behind all of the perks that came with that that for sure is like very scary and like I taught before we did any of this and it or before I did any of this sorry

but I like what do you do now like go back to teaching? It's just that kind of, okay, what's next? What's gonna bring us joy? A software developer, for example, at Microsoft and you leave Microsoft, you go get a job at Intel or you go get a job at Salesforce or whatever. You know what I'm saying? Kind of end it. It's difficult to have a public job

because it's such a distraction. You know what I'm saying? But it's also you're trying to find something you have to keep the train going a little bit You you know, and it's also like I'm not I can't go start at a starting pay job No, my life's developed, you know I'm saying yeah, I don't have any experience in any other industry I'm a TV child star, you know, so it's like it's fun. It's navigating all that So it's it's nerve-racking for sure But you know, it's life. It's not the end of the world and I feel and I think it's also pushed us to just like explore What we want to do like where do we want to go next and it's given us like you said the freedom to kind of like

step back and Ask those questions And honestly just to have a little bit of privacy for a minute has been very nice like not having people at our house every week and Not having to like come up with storylines of like what we're gonna do that week, you know Yeah, I think that portion has been really nice That's why rush oh what you say or that's the pressure and not having storylines is when you're out of the VV They're always asking what are you guys doing this week? What do you and you almost feel like lame like going all these?

You know, but really you're normal but like oh, I'm sorry. I'm not skydiving every other week. I'm like that's not normal And like we we're in the season right now to that like our kids are kind of going through it with like Medical stuff and it's kind of nice not to have the cameras there. Yeah, I didn't even think of that. Like it's nice to do it privately and like to do it on our terms and on our... Jackson had his second leg surgery and we didn't share it on camera. Like he asked us not to share it and I think that was like a huge like point where Zach and I looked at us like, okay, what does this mean if our seven-year-old is asking us not

to have them here? But that's, we kind of talked about it earlier though that also we were in a blessed position. us like, okay, what does this mean if our seven year old is asking us not to have them here? We kind of talked about it earlier though that also we were in a blessed position. That's a huge storyline. That's an easy, like we said no to a huge storyline for the show. But we were in position and that's kind of, you know, leaving the show. But we were also able to say, no, we're not doing that. These are our kids, they matter more.

Yeah, what do you need? What do you need? Or like, I'll do anything to do whatever, you know? But we had to, you know, no, like he's not into it. That's not happening. And you're gonna film us talking at our dinner table. Okay, Courtney. Yeah, cause what does that look like?

I think obviously if you're doing, you know, you guys now are doing a lot more on YouTube. So with YouTube, you can just, you could literally record your video on a phone, but saying no to little people, big world, doing an episode on Jackson surgery, what did that mean? Cause I'm guessing you probably had multiple camera people that would go in on a doctor's appointment

and film and do all that. So what did the ins and outs look like that? Yeah, yeah, you were just, you were followed a lot. And sometimes like my big thing that you were asked questions, like they would interview about what just happened. Sometimes when you talk about something, it brings a new meaning. And then almost puts an emphasis on something that I'd be like, that was cool. Well, you can't just say that on TV over there. Why was it cool? Like talk about it. And would ask you over and over again because after the commercial break They need you to like say it again. If you watch a show you can see how it's structured after the commercial break

They basically say like yeah I'm I'm here at Jackson surgery for example, and then that becomes annoying and Cuz it's like alright now it sounds like looking for something and it's a bigger deal than what it was So they're like I feel weird saying this because it it feel like because I'm saying it over and over it again it's bringing some weird emphasis to it well then they would bring in storylines though to to those scenarios that were kind of frustrating like we would have like first birthdays or surgeries that they like like Jay's first lake surgery they wanted wanted to talk about his mom coming to watch the kids

and that was a huge part of the storyline, which is amazing. We're so grateful that she was there and could help us, but at the same time we're like, if our son's leg surgery is not dramatic enough and can't, then why are we telling this story? Why are we here? My mom and dad are getting a divorce

and I have my mom watching the kids and you go It's like why is your dad? Start talking about other things that you're like levels to this, you know, it's like I see where this is going Yeah, and so that was hard and he's so good at like remembering what he says Like he'll say something and two years from now. He'll say the same thing He's very good at like where I I like sometimes have word vomit and we'll just say something and then two weeks later I say something totally different and that could be like not a good thing Yeah, people spot that I'm curious like you leaving the show

Is it well received with the network with your family with everyone or was it like a harder conversation? Because you said you were nervous about there's a lot of family dynamics That weren't great. So like that no, it wasn't like joyous. But for me, it was, you know, someone needs to be an adult in the room. This isn't working anymore. And there's a lot of toxicness going on. And like, I know the money's great. I know this and that.

But someone eventually, someone needs to say this needs to stop. We need to separate from this. And then we also kind of like set it, you know? I'll show it. Networks don't like that. They like making those announcements. They like controlling that narrative. They didn't say anything to us

because that's not how they work. But I just know from experience, we basically told the people we're done, you know? And I know that was probably not super, they were super stoked about that. We like also wanted to control the narrative. We didn't want something written that was like, Oh, a little field of big worlds canceled and you know, I think we wanted to like write the narrative.

People then say like, Oh, they canceled or they they don't want like, it's like, no, I'm we're we're making a kind of a big boy decision here. And we're stepping away from something that's at the top. And like this is not, you know what I'm saying? I kind of wanted that respect a little bit. Like we wanted that respect a little bit of like, you know, this is our call here and it's a big one. So like we don't want it to be manipulated any other way. You know?

Yeah, it's probably the first thing you got to say on your own without like their hand in it. I'm a very, I'm like a, I do what I'm told. I'm very good at it. I know how you feel. I don't like messing up stuff. I want to make everybody happy. Oh yes, dude. I'm a rule follower of all the things. And so, you know. I am not. You're so cute.

I am a real breaker. Yeah, oh yeah, Tori does not like to be told what to do. Oh no. Reality television was not a great industry for her. So true. Working with the producer and all that stuff. So true. I'll do it when I want to do it.

She's like, who are they? I wasn't cut out for it. I wasn't cut out. You get lines, you know, sometimes, like, cause sometimes when you film, you guys may even know this, you film something and then once you see It on camera be like that makes no sense

We have to come in and add words to it or something or add a sound bite You know I'm saying in the time it makes sense. So they would have us do that, you know to like I was great at it you Was great I said exactly what they wanted to say every time and you would always you had to change one word Well, they would like give you a line to say and I'm like I would never say that I would never you know They would give you some like fancy dancy word That's funny I didn't even realize but it makes sense makes sense. Anything without the full picture is like, wait, what is going on?

Right. Is the show canceled? They haven't come out and said it, but we're not continuing. So it is. They haven't said if your parents or anything. Yeah, they haven't said if my parents are continuing it in some form or if they would continue it. But touring me in that current format I think

reality television we're done I don't know you never know you can never say no like we're like your own show and we're like we're still like who wouldn't watch that we're so we're like the comedic relief of the show we're very aware we're not we're not willing to do what needs to be done to be the the sole characters on a real you know I'm saying the drama the we're not willing to do that so to be done to be the sole characters on a read, you know what I'm saying? The drama, the we're not willing to do that. So it is like a, I don't wanna say no to anything, but the current format of, yeah, I don't, I wasn't totally stoked for how the last like five years

of Little People of World Within the Family was kind of managed and run. So not even like a network issue, but also kind of a network issue. And yeah, so yeah, that format, but they have not announced it. So, but yeah, it was a great run, you know, it got us to where we are now,

but now we're kind of excited for the future and see where these opportunities take us. Do your own thing. Yeah, and see what we want to do. And like, I still want to, I'm a big soccer guy. I want to maybe start a soccer podcast one day but. I know he's already planning to ditch me. Okay why is it like when I think cuz I'm a big Game of Thrones fan we we loved Game of Thrones and watched it and terrible

ending though right? Terrible ending. We actually kind of liked it but we think it's because we didn't watch it in real time we binge watch the whole eight seasons together. So we didn't have the build up. So we weren't like let down Okay, it was okay. Like was the ending amazing? Yeah, no, but yeah since we've been shit in a month I feel like for I don't know how long you watch it for but for someone who probably watched it for eight years I probably was pissed that I think I came in like probably four years in and then we've been Whatever was up to that point and then it was like the last couple seasons See that would be hard because even that's how I feel at house of dragon like it's hard It's not related to Game of Thrones. Yeah, it's the prequel. It's the prequel to Game of Thrones

Okay, hold on it's easy for me to get let down on those episodes because I'm like, I waited two years for the next season. You know, I can see where, if we would have watched Game of Thrones that way. Because you mentioned this on your podcast, it was cool to have representation with Peter being Tyrion in Game of Thrones. I wonder why they didn't- I love Tyrion so much. They should have brought him back

or brought back somebody else to have like a similar like character to Tyrion in House of the Dragon because there isn't anybody- I don't think it would have made sense though because that's what made him so unique in the first one. Oh yeah. If they had already seen a dwarf before he wouldn't have been who he was. That was the idea is Tyrion was this like, you know what I'm saying? Like it was unique.

The first of his kind. Yeah, in the family bloodline. You know what I'm saying a little bit? I hear you're saying. If that was in the bloodline before, I feel like his story wouldn't have made as much sense. That makes sense, because it is like, House of the Dragon is like several years before. Back to the PC stuff, though, I'll admit, like, the term dwarf did- I was like, wait, is that the correct term? Because you have, like-

Being used in Snow White, you didn't know if it was outdated. It's almost like a mythical creature or whatever in snow white up the dictionary no it's changed oh it's changed if you look at the dictionary 15 years ago 20 years ago Marion it would be a magical creature from a fantasy land I thought a fantasy I was just reading I just read all the Aragon books. I read those when I was like in middle school and I've gotten back into reading again as an adult and I was like, let's just reread these books,

it'll be fun. And yeah, there's like, you have just like a book series like Lord of the Rings, you have the dwarves in the books. And so yeah, for me, I was like, wait a second, is this the right term? But I guess the dictionary definition's changed. feel like is like marketing to like I don't know this is my own theory So when the term dwarf became super popular, it's a marketing like it's an organization for people of dwarf dwarfism That's that's a oh, I know what dwarfs are like I've seen them in Willow Wonka and whatever

What's the Golden Road? Wizard of Oz. You know what I'm saying like there's a marketing thing there and I feel like in a way but now we're more definitely there's more people dwarfism on camera and television so you don't have to say that you can say a little person to someone say oh yeah I know you know, that's my theory. But back then, if I was creating an organization for people with dwarfism, you say what people would know. What word is the popular word at the time? You know, an M word, D word, now little people, you know, so. Gotcha. No, I'll have to check out your soccer podcast whenever you start it.

Okay, yeah. That could be kind of rad. We did a coaching soccer topic on our podcast. It was our lowest rated one. Brutal. I was so into it. Our pie chart showing all of our ratings. That one just... No one wants to hear that. But that's okay. No one wants to hear me. But that's okay. I'll move. It's a passion project. It's important to do some things even though they don't bring that money or whatever. It's important to, you know.

And it was a good episode. They probably were listening to me too much because I was like, oh my gosh, you're talking about soccer. Do you coach your son? Yes. You're the coach. Yeah. Yeah, I love that. That's what I did. She's for. Yeah, I've done that since I was like, 15. Work with kids and then having my own kids the COVID took a year or Lada was born and then COVID happened. And then once you have your own kids, definitely I'm

like, man, I can't imagine I'm going to coach my kids. I might go back into competitive coaching. But you know when you have your own kids I'm like I want to this is where it's that's awesome. I can't I would have a harder time I feel you want to hand that off well I would have a harder time dealing with someone else's kids No, I would still coach my kid, but then also in addition like dealing with someone else's kids Oh Like this is where I want my patience my capacity. Yes. Yes my you know, this is my focus here

I'm sure that's probably how you feel also about teaching Oh, yeah, you're like because I think about teaching like so many teachers are with kids all day Yeah, and they come home and they're like, oh, I don't know how they do that Like it's I feel like that'd be really difficult to be a mom who teaches all day with other kids and has to come home I'd be present with my mom did yeah That's so that would be really and like I think one day a mom who teaches all day with other kids and has to come home and be present with her kids. My mom did, yeah. That's so, that would be really, and like I think one day I can see myself going back

when all of my kids are in school, but yeah, like my friends do it now when they have like babies at home, and I'm like, how do you do that? That's so hard. Their capacity just grows and grows. You're dynamic and just seeing how you talk to one another and interact with each other,

it seems like you just have such a healthy relationship and it seems like you clearly, obviously love each other very much. What do you guys do that you think helps build that bond that you have? Well, thank you. That was sweet. I think that Zach and I are super reflective people.

I think we Zach and I are super reflective people. I think we're really like, we go to every situation and every hangout or anywhere that we go, we get in the car and we immediately reflect on what did we do well? What could we have done better? In parenting and relationships and I think that that's something that's really helped us in our marriage, just being reflective and communicative with each other Just like emphasis on team to like everyone has a role which I struggle with sometimes like like just like things Like little things, you know, he always talks about like it's we it's us and I like a lot of times I find myself saying I or my kids my family like no

It's our family our kids our, and just even that small little adjustment I think is super important and can change outlook on a lot of things. Do you guys have like a weekly date night you do or is there some sort of like ritual or something that you guys do together that's like, oh, this really, you don't have anything. When we moved up to Battleground, we had such. We left our babysitter roster? I know we had such a roster

And then we just haven't been able to recreate it But we know but we go on date, but we do on dates I think we go on date night more average than yeah like a lot of people like we still make time for just us I mean, we're on this trip by ourselves You know, this is like such a gift just to be here. And, you know, obviously we miss our kids, but I think we do a good job of like, I think for us, we don't always have to go somewhere or go on a date to make time for one another. Like even if it's just we put the kids to bed and we watch a show together, you know, just.

Yeah. And tension out. Yeah. It's cool to see how you guys have respected like your family your your kids and just Wanted the best for them clearly and so it's clear that leaving the show was probably I mean Like you guys clearly thought about it a lot and really thought through that big decision But it seems like you really care about your kids and keeping boundaries between reality TV and your family How do you navigate family boundaries with extended family now that you have your own

family? You just experiences you get burned or whatever and then you realize like, hey, this is what needs to happen. You get a lot like I'm a very passive guy and I want to make everyone happy. But yeah, when you do have kids, do you it does light something under you where it's like, you know, this is not happening or we're separating from this or we're doing that. I think when you intertwine business with family,

it gets super complicated. And I think that this, you know, last what year almost that we haven't been doing the show, it's really just trying to figure out what does our relationship look like with our family outside of business, you know, like we're not working with our family anymore. And you know, we-

That's kind of what I was alluding to. I don't think that was always navigated the right way. Also like beyond reality television though too, just having space sometimes is really nice. Like when you're... I like, I love like in-laws, they're great, they're great, but sometimes being 45 minutes away from family, it's okay. Like we don't all have to live next door to each other, we don't all have to hang out, you know other. We don't all have to hang out. I feel like for the first time, especially in Zachary's life, I went away to college and so I kind of got a taste of what it means to get away from family and do things on your own.

But I feel like for the first time in our marriage, we're completely making decisions on our own without the input of anyone else, whether it be friends, family, anything. We're doing our own thing in Battleground and we're loving it, like we're having fun and making friends on our own and it's just been nice. It's awesome. There's not a lot of people I feel like you can make friends that people maybe don't watch

Little People in the World up there. Yeah, which is nice too, yeah. Bunch of farmers and everything, so. Well, what did our neighbors say to us? No joke, the day after we moved in, they were like, oh, we Googled you. We're like, that's not fair. Like, you can't Google us, we can't Google you, so.

Our neighbors, they have a road building business right next to us, all their equipment, everything. And there's days when we're out there filming this, or when we were doing the Opioid World, and all their blue collar workers are like looking over the tree line going, what are they doing over there? Yeah, like we're like the new couple from LA that just moved up there like doing like social media stuff and they're like, they're making America move over there. Okay, building roads.

They're building roads. And we're goofing off on social media. Oh my gosh. What the hell is going on over there? They're like, yeah, real job. Honestly, yeah. It's so true. I love that. That's refreshing. I love that.

It's very, it's grounding. Like, Battleground is a very grounding place. They don't care how many followers you have. It's humbling. I love that. Well, thank you guys for coming on the show and and just sharing, I don't know, so much. Yeah, thank you for allowing us to ask questions that probably, or maybe we didn't say everything

exactly right, or just letting us be educated. Yeah, thanks for inviting us. You have such a cool story. I admire so many aspects about you guys, and you as a couple, and how you've navigated the media too. Just like so much grace, so much wisdom. Yeah. I hope that, yeah, I just really want to make sure that people hopefully are educated in some way by the episode and like learn, maybe learn something, but also got to know you guys a bit more. And if you guys haven't checked out their podcast, go check

out Tori and Zach's podcast, Raising Heights. It's awesome. I've listened to a few episodes and I think you guys are great. So yeah. Where else can people find you besides your podcast? My Instagram. Yeah, Tori's Instagram. Zach tries Instagram, but. I'll post things on my Instagram and they'll, they think it's Tori. They all think it's me. Yeah. Like we know this is me. Tori's Instagram, our YouTube. Oh, YouTube. And then and then the podcast on Spotify, Apple and wherever else you listen to your podcast.

Look at you. Good job. Wherever you listen to that. That's like every podcast you ever or wherever you get your podcast. I thought they were telling podcasters to say that and then I was like, no, we just we just say it. We just all do it. you get your podcast.