The Viall Files - E922 - The Valley w/ Alex Baskin, Mormon Wives Preview, Golden Bach Reveal, Paradise & Making Reality TV

Episode Date: April 24, 2025

Welcome back to The Viall Files: Reality Recap!  Happy Thursday! Get ready for an all access BTS into the Valley with Executive Producer Alex Baskin. What really happened between Brittany and Jax? How do producers go about handling sensitive and dark storylines? All this, and more are answered! Plus, Nick and Natalie spill the tea on Hulu’s Get Real event, we get back into Mormon Wives mode, discuss George Clooney’s new hair and lack of fighting with Amal, and more! Make sure to tune in!  “We’re attracted to originals.” Subscribe to The ENVY Media Newsletter Today: https://www.viallfiles.com/newsletter  OUT NOW! Listen to Humble Brag with Cynthia Bailey and Crystal Kung Minkoff. Available wherever you get your podcasts and YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@humblebragpod https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/humble-brag-with-crystal-and-cynthia/id1774286896 Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes. Follow us on X/Twitter: https://twitter.com/TheViallFiles Listen To Disrespectfully now! Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/disrespectfully/id1516710301 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0J6DW1KeDX6SpoVEuQpl7z?si=c35995a56b8d4038 Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCh8MqSsiGkfJcWhkan0D0w To Order Nick’s Book Go To: http://www.viallfiles.com  If you would like to get some texting advice on Office Hours send an email to [e-mail] with “Texting Office Hours” in the subject line! To advertise on this podcast please email: [e-mail] or go to: https://advertising.libsyn.com/theviallfiles   THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Sundays For Dogs - Get 40% off your first order of Sundays. Go to https://sundaysfordogs.com/viall or use code VIALL at checkout. Beekeeper’s Natural  - Today, Beekeeper’s Naturals is offering you an exclusive offer. Go to https://beekeepersnaturals.com/viall or enter code VIALL to get 20% off your order. Or enter code VIALL. Timestamps: (00:00) - Intro (00:26) - Hulu Get Real (05:15) - Household Headlines (12:24) - Secret Lives of Mormon Wives Trailer (19:00) - Bachelor In Paradise News (21:48) - The Valley Initial Thoughts (28:29) - Alex Baskin Joins (29:37) - RHOBH (36:32) - Denise Richards and Her Wild Things (38:36) - Vanderpump Revamp (39:29) - Ally Lewber (47:02) - Scandoval (49:33) - The Valley with Alex (01:00:52) - RHOC (01:01:56) - Producing BTS Questions (01:10:38) - The Valley Final Notes (01:18:32) - Chipotle  (01:20:35) - Meredith  (01:23:54) - Exchanging Photos (01:24:34) - The Yacht (01:25:58) - Outro Episode Socials:  @viallfiles @nickviall @nnataliejjoy @thealexbaskin @ciaracrobinson @justinkaphillips @the_mare_bare @leahgsilberstein @dereklanerussell   

Hi, I'm Sarah Paijee, the founder of BlueLand. When I think about the household cleaning products I'm using around my kids, I want to know that they're safe to use on surfaces, dishes, and clothes—basically all the items that ultimately end up either in my kids' mouths or on their skin. That's why I created BlueLand. Every BlueLand product is made to meet the highest parental environmental standards. Our products are not just clean, they're mom clean. In 2024, BlueLand was named an EPA Safer Choice Partner of the Year. From cleaning sprays

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I am your host Nick and boy do we have an incredible exciting episode for you today. We went yesterday to Hulu's big showcase. I think it was called Get Real. It was Get Real, playing on like. Was it all reality television shows? Yeah, Hulu announcing the Secret Lives of Mormon Wives trailer just dropped yesterday. Kloi Kardashian has a new show that they are producing. Robert Irwin is the first contestant of the new Dancing with the Stars.

There's a lot of like announcements in the Hulu. The Golden Bachelor. The new Golden Bachelor was announced. He's a newbie, he's a normie. Did they give you any info, any background on this man? Yeah, yes, he is a former Los Angeles Rams football player. Oh, he still resides in LA. Resides in LA.

So any women who might live in like, you know, Fort Lauderdale, you know, or something, might wanna bounce on resides in LA. Resides in LA. So any women who might live in like, you know, Fort Lauderdale, you know, or something, might wanna bounce on over to LA. It's a fun place to go. Okay, drag Fort Lauderdale. The inside T for the Golden Bachelor is like, yeah, there is an extra effort. And I think part of the consideration of picking

this new Golden Bachelor, what's his name? Mel. Mel? What's his last name? Owens. Robbins? Mel Owens. Literally. Mel Owens. Let them. Is that him residing in like a major city

was a plus for them? It's just like, they're always hoping that they can introduce someone to someone and love happens. And like, it's just maybe more likely that someone might relocate to a city like Los Angeles than like the middle of Indiana. No offense to Indiana.

Beautiful state. Beautiful state. Like I'm from Wisconsin, you know, like maybe they don't want to move to Fond du Lac for love. You know, you don't even know where that is. But it's like Joan and Chalk got like their apartment in New York City, you know? So it's like, yeah, I think having a golden bachelor who resides in LA like will definitely be a lot easier

to have a connection that lasts. We showed up a little late to the event. We brought River. You brought River? We did. How was River's first event? Well, it wasn't her first event. I did, we kind of like, did you feel like,

are we bad parents? I felt like the Coachella mom. I kind of felt like the Coachella mom. Was River the only one under? Absolutely the only baby. Oh, she was definitely the only baby. But to me it was like, we're showing everyone that you can have a life and bring your children,

like children don't stop you from living your life. Like they join your life. And that's what she did. They were passing out french fries and she was holding her little french fries, eating her french fries. She was walking around, kind of going up to people. She was living her best life.

We were not bad people. We had to walk through some loud rooms, but other than that, she was just the only baby there. I was worried that people were judging us. And then Jimmy Kimmel showed up. Oh, hello Jimmy. He is the host of Late Night with Jimmy Kimmel on ABC, which is part of the Hulu Disney family.

Said hi to Jimmy. He did recognize me, which was, you know. You're like, hey, old bud. Hey, old bud. Got to meet Natalie. He met River. River stuck her finger in his nose. Oh.

I said, boy, you have a big nose. She picked Jimmy Kimmel's nose. She said, this is for all those kids you stole that candy from. He's great with the. Oh my God. You know, Jimmy, I think I've said this before, but like Jimmy Kimmel, when I was the bachelor,

you know, you get obviously very cool opportunities. You get to do all these interviews, Ellen watch what happens live, Jimmy Kimmel, things like that. I got to do some other daytime shows and everyone was very nice, even Ellen to me. But Jimmy Kimmel, I got to meet a few times and like when I got to meet him,

he was the only like host that really took the time to try to give me advice. So I had to do these promos. I came in and me and Jimmy are filming these promos that I would do with various bachelors. And when we got done, he's like, all right, Nick, come here. And he took my mic off, he took his mic off. He brought me into this closet, this little tiny room. And it was-

I was gonna say this, this is starting off. I am listening. I see me. And he was- I was gonna say this, this is starting off. I am listening. I see me. And he like looked at me and he was just like, hey man, I just wanna tell you that whatever is going on in your world and I don't know who's telling you what, but like you don't have to get married, you know?

And thank God for that. And it was just coming from a very sincere place of like, hey, I just wanna make sure that you're not caught up in this whole Hollywood thing or producers are like insisting you need to follow through with this. At that point, I kinda knew where our relationship wasn't going and was going, but it just felt like

he was giving me real human advice, and he cared about me as a person, and like, he's the only person at his level who has ever done that. And I hope I get a chance to have him on the show and tell him that story. It really, like, it meant a lot. He gave me his email once when I came on the show.

A few times I emailed him, he always responded. He also loves, or loved, because it's no longer, rations, the place my sister and her fiance, the restaurant, he like went there all the time and loved it. But he was always just a very personable human, like on a human level, and just went there all the time and loved it. But he was always just a very personable human, like on a human level, and just very generous with his time. And I always appreciated that about Jimmy Kimmel.

I love hearing stories like that. Well, I box dyed my hair. Did you? I did. She did. I walked into the bathroom and her, Victoria Fuller and Natalie are in there and like dyeing her hair. And I was like, are you, what? And it's not purple. It looks great. It's not, I'm jealous. Actually, I'm like, I haven't box dyed my hair since I was maybe way too young

to be getting a hold of a box dye. Right. And I like, kind of am obsessed. Oh, box dyeing rocks. Like I haven't had the time to go to the salon, we've been so busy. It's been, and my hair gets this like reddish tint to it. So I was like, I'm just gonna go find, like like I don't know what I'm doing, but we'll see

I love it. Honestly. Yeah Loves this story frugal. No, this is how to turn on. Yeah, and I'm excited It's like you like you turned your hair green for me It's not it's not green by the way, it looks fantastic I was like. Literally. It's not green by the way. It looks fantastic.

It looks really, really great. But honestly, I didn't even care. I was like, honestly, however it looks, I love you. Are we talking a CVS box dye or a Sally's Beauty box dye? I did like that. I ordered off Amazon. I did like the Garnier something, I don't know, but period, it worked.

And it like, honestly, I feel like my hair is shinier and like kind of fuller. It looks great, yeah. And I'm like, okay, box dye. It worked and it like, honestly, I feel like my hair is shinier and like kind of fuller. And I'm like, okay, Vox Di. It looks way better than George Clooney's. Yeah. Yeah. Have you guys seen George Clooney's new hair dye?

Now in his defense, he's doing it for a movie. I feel like it just ruins George. Like that's not George. No, it's not George. He could have worn a wig. He really made Grey look beautiful. Well, the thing is, I think it's like for a movie, you can pull off. It is for a movie, yeah.

I think it's for a Broadway show. So it's like he's doing it every night and I think that's why he dyed it. Oh, okay. Yeah. He's doing this for Broadway? Yeah. He must really love acting. I mean, he's George Clooney. Yeah, I guess.

No, good for him, man, you know? He's not fighting with his wife, so he needs something to get people talking. Like not even one little just like, oh, you're annoying me. You know, like not one. Do they even love each other? I feel like you can't.

Their whole thing is they're so in love. They're clearly lying. They still have never had one argument. It just depends on. Oh, for how many years? Your face annoys me today just because you've been here the whole day. You know, like sometimes, you know, it's like

I'm not even married and I've gotten mad for less like you're breathing in my space No, literally almost 11 years. What's the dumbest thing? What is the dumbest thing? You've gotten mad at me for I love this the dumbest thing I've gotten mad at you for I'm I feel like they're none of them are dumb. So it's like hard for me to like think about like what's dumb because I felt like I'm validated in all of them. Okay, no, for sure. What's the dumbest thing you've gotten mad at me for?

Well, let me see. Oh, yes, I'm gonna go for it. Um, like you, I definitely feel justified and valid for my frustrations. Okay. Yeah. But? Natalie thinks cooking is turning my frustrations. Okay. Yeah. But?

Natalie thinks cooking is turning everything on high. Oh. Efficient. Yeah. Danny does this. Get down, much quicker. And then deciding what ingredients she needs. Oh.

You know? Oh, so the burner, so you go burner on first and then you're like, okay, let me gather. Maybe. You're preheating the pan. Honestly, she's kind of, then you're like, okay, let me gather. Maybe. You're preheating the pan. I don't recall. She's just kind of. Very demure.

She's very much winging it. That's part cooking. You know what the secret to cooking is? What? Knowing what, getting your ingredients out first. Time, temperature and preparation. Like how much you cooking something for, at what temperature does it need to be on

and like, do you have your ingredients ready before you start cooking this shit? Is this a known thing, the TTP? Preparation's true though. I imagine it is. Gotta brand it. Did you just coin a new term? I don't think so.

I'm pretty sure I haven't. I mean, I don't watch a lot of cooking shows, but I'm not deep into the cooking community, but I imagine I'm not making this up. Natalie loves a little hibachi style, that's all. Trying to grow up and throw it on after. I know. I had hibachi last night.

No, she loves hibachi. She likes take home, honestly that's it. Take home hibachi? It irritates me some of the things that she enjoys in terms of food. Honestly, going out to eat with either of you is an nightmare. Absolutely difficult.

Usually you could be like, you're like, Mexican, do you want sushi? Do you want Italian? I'm supposed to go to dinner with Natalie. How many times have you been out to dinner with us? Even New York. New York, I was sitting there and I was like, we went to a French restaurant and y'all got burgers and club sandwiches.

What? What do you mean we went to a French restaurant? We went to Petite Troire. The restaurant that we went to was a French restaurant. It's an, no, hardly. You mean hardly. There's escargot on the menu. Oh, I'm sorry.

I need to get escargot just because they- No, but there's like, I got mussels fries, but it was just like, okay. It's a very American style menu. 100, well, that's what I'm saying. I'm like, if I go somewhere with you, I'm like, okay, don't say Italian. They have burgers.

They have French fries at a French restaurant. Yeah, there you go somewhere with you, I'm like, okay, don't say Italian. They have a chicken sandwich. They have burgers. They have like. They have french fries at a French restaurant. Yeah, there you go. Steak frites. Mm-hmm. No? I have a question. No? Natalie, does it bother you when Nick like gets sick? He doesn't really get sick.

Never really don't. And honestly, Nick does not complain when he's sick, which is really frustrating because I complain a lot. And I would love for him to like also complain So I can be like well you were complaining, but he does not the man has never complained once in his life Which is really shocking. I don't complain when he's sick. He's just like I'm just like feeling a little achy and I'm like Oh, I'm sorry. Can I get you anything? He's like no And then it'll get me sick and I'm like

Okay, are you okay? No. I think I'm dying. In fact, I don't think I've ever asked Nally if she's okay and her go, yeah, I'm okay. Yeah. Okay. It's a little under the weather.

Don't ask me if you don't want to shoot. Her immediate response is always, no, I need something. It is. And are you like, are you okay? I'm like, no, I'm so thirsty. Are you okay? No, my back is killing me. Surely. I don't like, I'd never heard her go, yeah, I'm pretty good right now.

Like why lie? Literally. He's asking. Literally. Do you want the truth or not? Yeah. Sorry if you can't handle that. Sorry if you can't handle the truth.

I know the story has been out for a minute, but Dylan Efron recently saved two women from drowning in Miami, which is so like Dylan Efron. Sexy, right? He was probably going cliff jumping and people were just swimming and drowning and he was like, you know what? I am a lifeguard. But what people aren't talking about is he was with his friends Brennan. Who's Brennan? Just like hometown friend. Just Brennan was with his friends Brennan. Who's Brennan?

Just like hometown friend. Just Brennan? Yeah, just Brennan. Normie. And Sam Asghari. And I'm just curious as to like what were they doing? I think they one helped. There were several people, there was like a group of girls like in the ocean like not being able to swim. And Dylan went and got one, came back, went and got another. Brennan went with, it was just Sam Fiskari who was not a part of the. Oh, Sam did not help anyone. No, so I just looked around, there's no lifeguards around,

me and Brennan just look at each other and we just sprinted out there. So I swam in, swam back for another girl. Sam was doing pushups? Maybe he was helping on the shore. He was recording. Yeah. He's like, this is definitely gonna be good for Instagram later.

Well, the new trailer for season two of the secret lives of Mormon wives is out. It looks very juicy. Oh, it is juicy. I can confirm. Yes. It's juicy. I can't wait.

I'm so excited. These women give me life. I've seen the whole thing. Have you? I have. Did you guys see any Mormon wives last night? We saw them. Well, we didn't see Jen. I did not see Jen I did not see to me, but I saw the rest I saw to me looking great looking great guys this season the poster absolute banger

First of all, let's just play the trailer. Can we play the trailer? I think mom talks been a positive impact for the Mormon community Okay Can we play the trailer? I think Mom Talk's been a positive impact for the Mormon community. Yeah! Um, okay. Come be safe Life has been a blur. Come be safe Mom Talk has become a nationwide trend. I never imagined everything to blow up like this.

But it's a double-edged sword. You're opening up yourself and your family to all kinds of drama. Can I have a hug? You can have a handshake. Ha ha ha ha! Where is everyone at? Whitney wants back in Mom Talk. Everything feels kind of fake about it.

I'm trying to protect Mom Talk. I don't feel like inviting the devil back in. I think everybody just needs to get the freaking stick out of there. Anyone that comes in at this point is clout chasing. What the hell? Is that Miranda? Oh, my God.

Miranda is Taylor's ex-best friend. I'm going to set the record straight on the swinging scandal. Oh! No! Oopsies. It's gonna get messy. For sure.

How is everything going with Dakota? Things are just getting worse. I do worry about Dakota's sobriety. All I want is a family. Things for Zach and I have been pretty rocky. This is our marriage. This isn't a game. I think this is gonna be a little intense. You announced we were swingers to the whole universe.

What to do? No one had sex ever, period. What the f... Who's lying to us? Hey! Don't touch my wife. Oh, this is crazy. He's a psychopath. The police are here. Mom talk is turning on each other left and right.

Things went down in Italy at Vanderpump Villa. She hasn't ceased and desist to keep her from talking about it. If she comes at me, I will absolutely dominate her. You're manipulative and you know it. I really think she needs to get over herself. Let's go. It's gonna destroy the group as a whole. Will you please cut the camera?

I can't do this. The show must go on. I have chilis. It's gonna destroy the group as a whole. Will you please cut the camera? I can't do this. The show must go on. May 15th everybody. Literally. Wow. Thank God. Can we just talk about this theme song remix?

Yeah. It's great. I need this blasting in my car. I'm into it. Will Mom Talk Survive is real to question. I know that was like a kind of a running joke last season, but like I think it's a legitimate question going into the season. I mean, it's heightened.

The ending of season two. Yeah. No words? No words, literally no words. Sometimes I wonder how people like get over these kinds of fights. Like in reality TV across the board in general, like how people get through it.

And it's like, yeah, we're good now. It's like, how? That's what I, that's what's make these women so special and great TV. And I said as much, I saw Macy yesterday, we saw most of them. And I was like, your lady's ability to just be completely honest about your feelings and spare no punches and then be able to come back the next day and just be like, hey, do you wanna go get a soda? Is amazing. But I was talking, I think, to one of the producers

of the show, but what they kind of speculated is just like, I think it comes from a place of like, these women obviously are very, most of them, religious and devout and there's a lot, you know, you gotta be honest, you know? And like we are the beneficiaries of their honesty because like, you know, lying is not good, you know? We all know that, but like. It's so toxic.

There's an extra layer of like, you know, pressure from their community just to keep it real, I guess, I don't know. But it's a wild season. The women already seem to be fighting. I was going to say, I saw some discourse happening on all of my, even my Bravo blogs. Crazy. Apparently, Jesse's like blocked Demi. I saw Demi post that. She said that her and Taylor aren't in a good place. I mean, it's crazy because I feel like Jesse and Demi were like the bestest of friends

Yeah, like genuine friends and now they're they're blocked I mean, it's and we have Miranda who was an og mom of mom talk wasn't on season one was a part of the swinging scandal With Taylor is joining the cast. So I feel like with with Miranda We're getting the promise of the premise because I feel like with Miranda, we're getting the promise of the premise. Cause I feel like season one was great, but I feel like I was expecting more swinging drama within. And it was fine, you really got to develop all the girls and stuff, but they weren't a part of it. And now we're like, oh, there's some backstory here.

I don't know what happened, but something happened and we get to see it. Who's y'all's favorite? I appreciate them all. Yeah. I don't know what happened, but something happened and we get to see it. Who's y'all's favorite? I appreciate them all. Yeah. I appreciate them all. They're all necessary. They're all necessary.

How do you pick a favorite saint? Truly, how do you pick a favorite saint? Exactly. I do tend to side with the sinners. Who do you think is the most underrated? Michaela. Michaela for sure. I think she's so funny.

Her soundbites. She's fast. She's fast and she's funny and she's witty. And like, well, she's so like demure and so like- She's very demure, but like she's ready. Like she's- I don't know, but she's demure, but like she'll also like stab a bitch.

Yeah, yeah. She's been through a lot. She's willing to say something. Season one, we didn't really get to see it all. And then like post season one on TikTok, we're like, oh, okay, you're spicy, you're fiery. And I feel like this season we're going to see like, Michaela. Yeah, she's the Angie Katzenavos of Morven Wives and that it takes a second and she's

yeah, I'll never forget when she came inside at the desk here and she someone said like, what do you think of Whitney or something? And she was like a bitch. Like real fast. Like didn't hesitate. No, yes. I'm going to say Whitney.

I think Whitney might be my favorite as well. I might be the most obsessed with Whitney in a weird like... Justin just plays that video of her dancing. Justin watches it all the time. I'm just kind of obsessed with it. She's shameless and I appreciate it. She's so shameless. She's just able to keep coming back.

She does not care. The way that I would not be able to handle like a whole group of women being mad at me. She's a consummate professional. And then she just makes a TikTok like dancing. Uh-huh. No, these are special women. These are special women. Before we move on from Hulu land,

can we talk about how Hannah Brown is joining Bachelor in Paradise? Yes. I don't understand. I say happy for, I'm very, this is great for Hannah. Great for Hannah. Right. She's like, kind of like been quiet for a while. She left. She, she got engaged. She left LA and then she bought a home with her fiance. And then like he moved out because they're like,

shouldn't live together until they're married. She's written a book. Then she's now written like a fictional book. And I mean, she, yeah. So for her to come back to paradise, and it seems like she's hosting a champagne room. She's the bartender of a champagne room? Ask. Welles is a friend, you're very close with Welles and Sarah. Is this kind of a bit of a demotion?

I don't think so. I'm sure it's share the wealth, but I just kind of a bit of a demotion? I don't think so. I'm sure it's like share the wealth, but I just kind of feel like maybe like Wells is gonna be the like daytime, everyday bartender. And then I feel like for maybe Rose ceremonies or like maybe like one on the like date situations, like maybe she'll be hosting like her own segment. But do we need three hosts?

That's the question. You know, like there's only so much air time. I mean, I personally wanted Wells to have Jesse's job. So that's where I'm like, I don't know, bringing in a third, how we're balancing the time. Well, I guess, listen. It takes a lot of communication. There is, there's also a lot of people.

We're also like bringing in the Goldens. So maybe they're like, we need some extra hands on deck for all these people. I forgot about that dynamic. Yeah. Yeah, maybe there are two, three bars. Which is kind of interesting that they brought back Hannah Brown, love her,

but not like someone from Golden to kind of give, like have an older person to help the older people and then like a Wells to help the younger. What's their big advice? Like to not marry someone from the franchise? Oh, they both, yeah. Three, all three of them. Jesse.

Well, Jesse's never been a contestant on the show. What do you mean? He was the bachelor. I'm sorry, he was the bachelor. That's true. But that was like a whole different like era of the bachelor. He was like the third, yeah, you're right.

Still, like none of their hosts have success on the show. That guy's just fucking crazy. Don't end on any of these people. That is kind of interesting. They love a success story, except. Like, I feel like they could have gone Ashley and Jared. You know? And like had, like they found love on Paradise.

Yeah, Jayden Tanner. Like someone who. Dean and. Deane and. Kaylyn. Well, I'm excited to see Hannah on the beach regardless. And they're in Costa Rica. So like a new era, new location, new beach.

It'll be fun. Costa Rica, I've heard good things. It's a very beautiful location. I'm a little sad they're not going to that. That place was perfect for that show. Right. They're all the old beach. Sayubita, we'll see.

Mexico. All right, well up next, Alex Baskin, executive producer of The Valley and many other Bravo shows is with us next to Break Down the Valley. It was a wild episode last night, dark even. Who are your, before we bring Alex on, who are the people you care most about?

Like. Kristen. Yeah, Kristen. Really? Edison, Michelle, Kristen. Really? Kirsten, Michelle, and Jesse. Michelle and Jesse for me. Give me more of them. I don't, honestly, I know everybody feels like

it's super bad. It's so dark and toxic. Dark, yeah, I was like, but I'm even Jackson and Brittany. Hate to say it. You're protective over Jesse and Michelle? No, we wanna see them on TV. No, I just like, I wanna- Oh, I misunderstood. No, no, I wanna see, like, when a scene comes on

and they're in it, I'm hooked. And when it ends, I'm like, go back to them. Yeah. That's too toxic for me, the Jesse and Michelle. Zach, I really enjoy Zach. Yeah. Yeah. Zach, you know, I want to, like, I heard about the Canadian boyfriend that's moving in

and them joking about you hauling. And I was like, gotta see how this goes. He's great with one-liners. Well, let's ask Alex. I kind of feel like Jackson and Brittany, it feels a bit performative. You think? I don't think so.

No, I feel like they're both professionals. I feel like Jackson and Brittany do know how to curate a scene. I don't think they're making up these scenes. I do think these are actual things that are happening in their lives. But I do think they're good at like, like Jax being like, oh, no, fuck this, I'm done.

I'm done filming. Take the cameras away. You know, it's like. That's performative. Okay, Jax. That's embarrassing when you walk out and you come back in. Yeah. I did wonder too, if it,

for like the reality of it all is that he wasn't expecting Brittany to say certain things out loud while they were filming that scene. So that's where I'm like for him to react that way or be like, fuck this, I'm not filming. Like, you know, that's why I was like, I feel like this is pretty raw for me. Cause I'm like, it reminded me of like Shay

and all that stuff where it's just like getting your dirty laundry exposed and knowing that like 95% they are going to use this. Yeah. But also like the phone call with the like person at the mental facility, like who was that? That was weird. Okay. He's like, hey brother, how are you?

It's like, is this your friend? Like who's calling you? It was a weird conversation. This is not like a receptionist or a doctor at a mental facility. He's like, yeah, so that'd be like $30,000 for 30 days. Just do the 30 days, dude. He literally was so weird.

I think that's better than two 15 days. It was like, are you selling him a happy meal? Are you used to carbs? It was so weird. It was kind of bizarre. When he kicked out Jason and Danny to have a phone call. Yeah. He's like, oh, phone call.

All right, you gotta go. You gotta go. You gotta go. Bye, guys. See you later. Thanks for coming. He's like, that'll be $30,000 for your mental health. That's weird. That's weird, and then yeah, the Jesse call to Sheena

about his girlfriend, and in his phone it says Sheena Shea, and he's like, hey Sheena, this is Jesse, Lolly, and Michelle, we're sitting here together. It's like, are y'all friends or not? Like, why do you have to say that? Having them call Sheena made it feel a little staged. Right. And Sheena's like, verbatim, yes, that is exactly what she said.

She even told me who, the guy from Baywatch. It was like, oh my god. Well, no, she didn't have to press her at all. She's like, well, it was the guy from Baywatch. She's like, you know, I know. So here's everything. But what does it say about Jesse, who immediately, I don't, this is his girlfriend?

Allegedly, yeah. She's a physicist, who knows. Before we even meet this girl on TV, he's immediately throwing her under the bus by calling Sheena his friend and having Sheena just platform a rumor about a person we've never met. Who is Sue Happy?

Who is Sue Happy? But also, he wants to move his daughter out to be with this person, and she's got all of this stuff that you're just now finding out about her. This is the same woman who texted Michelle being like, I will sue you if you talk about me on this show. Oh, you said Sue Happy. I was like, is that her name?

Sue Happy? Who's Sue Happy? Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the stage, Sue Happy. Well, let's bring in Alex and we can get some of our burning questions answered. Very excited to talk with him and he is up next. Has your dog tried Sundays for Dogs yet? I bet you anything they're going to love it.

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off your order. That's B-E-E-K-E-E-P-E-R-S-N-A-T-U-R-A-L-S.com slash viall or enter code viall. Beekeepers Naturals products are also available at Target, Whole Foods, Amazon, CVS, and Walgreens. Alex, welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. Very excited to have you. I feel like this has been a long time coming. It has been. Yeah.

It has been. I'm excited. I'm ready for the torture chamber, all of it. The torture chamber? No, no, no. I feel like you're the secret keeper of Bravo. I mean, until today. Yes, of course, exactly.

Thank you. Well, I just want to start by saying thank you for all the great TV You've made over the years. Oh, I appreciate it. Yeah. No. Thank you for for your support of the shows Yeah, well, you know, it's a mutually hopefully beneficial, but we've really enjoyed watching you make great TV Can you just let our audience know for those who don't know you like what is your role and what has been in your involvement? With some of the shows that Bravo has put out over the years. Sure. So for those who don't know you, like what is your role and what has been in your involvement with some of the shows that Bravo has put out over the years? Sure, so currently I run a production company and we make a bunch of shows including The Real Housewives of Beverly Hills, The Real

Housewives of Orange County, Vanderpump Rules, The Valley, Kristin Cavallari's new series, Denise Richards series, and then a few others that I can discuss soon. You are booked and busy. Trying. Some of our faves, to be honest, on Bravo. Obviously you wanna get into the Valley with you. We just watched the new episode last night. Beverly Hills just ended.

There's obviously been a lot of fallout with Garcels exit. And then there's, recently Garcel what's like recently Garcels. I followed Sutton's brands. After what? What happened Sutton put out like a. She's put out a statement essentially saying, and this is paraphrased, but like, you know, giving her her space, but like she still follows my brands.

And then Garcels immediately unfollowed her brands. Unfollowed her brands. She's like, oh, okay, well thank you for. She's like, oh, thank you for reminding me. For the sake of clarity. Yeah, yeah. Do you know anything? I mean, I don't know what you can share, even if you do know things, but like, oh, thank you for reminding me. For the sake of clarity. Yeah, yeah. Do you know anything, I mean, I don't know what you can share,

even if you do know things, but like, one, were you surprised as we were that Garcelle did what she did at the reunion and then decided to leave the show? Or did you kind of see it coming? I wasn't surprised that she left the show after the reunion, because I think it was clear that she felt a particular way the reunion, because I think it was clear that she felt

a particular way, and we respect that. And I thought she did it with class and grace, and I thought she had a great five-year run on the show. And clearly to her, is she thought about what coming back would entail. She just didn't wanna do it. Sure, okay. Which I prefer to sort of some of the exits

that linger over a couple years, where a cast member will come back to the show, but not sort of be into it spiritually. So I like the clarity of it. I liked how definitive she was about it. That makes sense. Yeah. When the production company, and I'm sure there's a collaboration between you guys and Bravo, but when you end a season, what is the process that you guys go through

of like deciding, you know, who do we want back? Who's a friend of versus a housewife? And then how do you guys scout for additional talent? We love Bose, by the way, great, excellent, fine. Just really fantastic. But yeah, how do you guys go through that process? Well, it really isn't scientific. So we have a series of conversations

and obviously we sort of have them through the season as well. But I would say that between kind of doing an assessment of the current group and then seeing what our casting yields, then we come to something of a consensus. Casting is sort of a process that starts with asking the current group who's close to them, who they know. And by the way, they may actually share that with us.

They may withhold that from us. So it depends. They have various sort of reasons for that. So we take a look around and then have a bunch of conversations. And it isn't casting for one thing or another. So it's sort of always say, people think that we have archetypes in mind and we're looking for an X type. We're really not. And people come in the form that they are. So, meaning that it might be nice to add someone who is married to the cast,

especially this current group, right? But if you find someone who is single or is going through a divorce and they're a compelling person and they have real relationships with the group, then that's the direction you take. Interesting. Do the ladies of the cast that's already cast, do they get a say in who comes in or like, can they push back if they're like, I don't get along with that person or is that something that would get that new person on quicker?

Yeah, I think they end up realizing over time that ultimatums are a very bad idea. So they pretty much never work out well. I think that we take into account what the, obviously what the complexion of the group will be. And so we don't want to bring someone in merely for the sake of revisiting an old feud or something like that.

But they definitely do not get a say, because I don't even think that you could. But they definitely do not get a say because I don't even think that you could assemble a show. If everybody got a say, got a vote, I don't know what you'd be left with. That's so true. You mentioned Beverly Hills, the cast was wildly single and going into the season, I was really, just as a fan,

really was hoping that we could see some of these women date. And that really didn't seem to pan out this season. As a producer, do you have those kind of same wish lists and things like that but ultimately you can't make these women date if they don't want to date? Are those conversations you tried to have with any of these women and is it still possible that if most of the cast is this core group of women, like Dorit and Kyle and Sutton, you know, who remain single, like, are we gonna see them get out there and try to live their lives?

Because yeah, like, I think sometimes when it's just the group of friends kind of talking and just living their lives without trying to like grow their lives, it gets, you're... Well, we did see Sutton date last season. She kind of had some blind dates. Which was great. I mean, it was nice to see. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, no, I agree. I mean, I think you want to see a progression of story in their lives. And I definitely think that you want to, you hope that they, in real life, move on from sort of the sadness of the separation onto what's next. They weren't all there this past season.

So they were in various stages of limbo. And the one thing we would never want to do sadness of the separation onto what's next. They weren't all there this past season, so they were in various stages of limbo. And the one thing we would never wanna do is fake as though they're dating, so we just don't do that. We don't look for suitors for them. It's not what we're there to do. But I agree.

I mean, I think you wanna open up their lives as much as possible. You don't want the show to become insularly about what's going on in the show itself. So it can't just be all about, you know, memes between Kyle and PK, right? So, so definitely the hope is that, that you see, you know, sort of everything

that's going on in their lives. And I do think, you know, the next frontier for them might be, all right, what do we do after the marriage is over? Do you have a favorite cast over the years? Has there been one that's been like, that was just hard to beat? Definitely.

I mean, I think that when it's a really cohesive group and when they put it all out there and when they hold each other accountable and when they know even more than we do as production and they call each other out, but they do it because they're all in it together, that is my favorite. I mean, I'm often asked too,

do I have a favorite cast member? And I would say, that varies daily, right? And it's a bit, it depends on who is doing their job. Is there a Bravo show that you're not a part of, that you, maybe it's another Housewife franchise, that you are a fan of or sometimes wish you got some of the energy that some of the other groups have. Yeah, I mean, I think there's two kinds of shows

that I'm a fan of. I think some are, shows are just marveled how well-made they are. And there's so many of those shows. And so I've always thought, you know, Top Chef is really well made. And I can appreciate that as a viewer. I look at other shows that are in the docu-series genre,

and you'll see when like Summer House has a great season and they're fully dialed in, then there are times where you watch a show like that. He's like, why can't, why can't our cast just do that right now? You know? And so it's definitely the case. show like that. He's like, why can't a why can't our cast just do that right now? And so it's it's definitely the case. That's great. And Denise, in the wild things, fun, lots of fun, great comedy.

Do you anticipate a season two? We hope so. We're kind of figuring that out. Really enjoyed making it. It's fun to make a half hour comedy. And the thing that I liked about it is, it wasn't overly broad. So it wasn't one of those set up family shows, which can be fun, but are stagey. I like the fact that, you know, they're very distinct people,

and they've obviously had a unique life, I think, you know, seeing them sort of grow up over the years, and not really knowing them, but seeing them sort of in the shadows. It's fun to see them now as young adults. And Denise is great. Denise is just, you know, who she is. It was fun for me. I went to the meal with Charlie Sheen to help kind of, you know, arrange for that to happen. And I went to that and it's just, it's fascinating for me to watch as a viewer, which means, you know, the audience will feel that way too.

Sammy brought that back to my attention that that video, that audio, that interview of him where he's like, if there are drugs, I will find them is Charlie Sheen. And I'm like, that is crazy that that is that same man sitting at the stable. She's like, if you want to know why I am the way that I am, like this is my father. Oh, I don't explain to Natalie just like, you know why I am the way that I am, like this is my father. It's crazy. I don't explain to Natalie, just like, you know, she's... The lore.

Yeah, the lore. Just like the winning, you know, that whole thing. Tiger blood. Yeah, no, it's... He's lived many lives. Truly. And now he has a great neck. He does have a great neck.

Well, it's really funny. And Denise, looking to camera then, was really funny. See, I'm also, it's funny, on sort of looking to camera and breaking the fourth wall See, I'm also, it's funny, on sort of looking to camera and breaking the fourth wall, I have mixed feelings about it. So I like it when it makes the show more real or there, that's her expressing herself.

I do not like it on the shows, I think, when the cast is very self-conscious and when they're playing to the audience. But I thought that moment was really fun. It was very Denise. And when they're, her and Sammy are taking the Pilates class. Yes. And they're, and they both kind of look at the camera

and be like, well, we are filming or whatever they said. It was, yeah, that was endearing too. Obviously Vanderpump is iconic and everything that it was. Are you a part of the revamp? How are you feeling about it? Yeah, I mean, I'm excited about it. The big thing that I keep emphasizing is we are not trying to do the thing that we did before. We're not trying to make the show that we did before. You can't do that. It's very big, you know, shoes to fill. And so we recognize when we announced it in the first place that we would be met with some skepticism because the audience hasn't yet had a chance to fall in love with the new group and the new show. But I think we're going to win people over. So I think it's, you know, getting back to core principles, it's a very tight-knit group, works together,

lives together, does everything together. And I think it's really fun. I think that, you know, it'll be all of the things that the audience loved about that show in the first place. It'll be, you know, messy and just a fun ride. Question I have for you, it's kind of like a meta question as we kind of segue into the valley and kind of talk, you know, because like this episode was a little darker. Yeah. Heavy for sure. We recently interviewed Allie Luber to talk about her experience with James.

I'd love to know if you just have any general thoughts on that whole situation. But separately, it's interesting because like, you know, we watch these shows, we cover it, break it down, dissect it, talk about these people with the acknowledgement, like a lot of these people we haven't met yet, you know, it is a TV show, there are edits, it's heightened stakes and things like that. But sometimes you are covering very heavy topics. With The Valley, kids are involved and things like that. We were recently talking about

the secret lives of Mormon wives. And the more we cover it, it's like I have to recognize while we still are critical and critical of these people, but as fans, it's a bit hypocritical for us to judge all these people while enjoying the very shows that we, it's like, we want the drama, but then we have the nerve almost to like judge people for really opening up

and sharing their lives with us. And I guess my question to you is like, as a producer of these shows, how do you, when you're watching a scene, for example, like Jesse and Michelle, do you have opinions as a father or a human being? And how do you separate that between, well, hey, it's my job to let these things play out versus, because a lot of fans will make comments like,

this seems wrong, or how do you let that happen? And we'll blame production for certain things. Does that make sense? Like how do you kind of work through that as a human being, as your job, as a father, and then at the same time, letting this play out and letting these people be who they want to be on camera? Yeah, it's hard. And I think that it's changed a little bit through the years because I just think as a society, I think that years ago, I think the idea was, well, we're just documenting

what's happening. And the idea was sort of to be more hands off. I think we look at it differently now. It can't be incumbent on us at all times just to run in if we, you know, suspect that someone might be better off if we... But I think there is a responsibility in certain situations, certainly not to heighten what is happening if there is a dangerous situation. So we definitely intervene, you know, there. And obviously, we do have personal feelings because I never want to be that anesthetized to this

that I'm watching a show that I'm making and feeling nothing or looking at it as though this is a scripted series. It's people's real lives. So I think that on the one hand, that's a, it's a lot to reconcile, but I also think it isn't that hard to balance in the sense that whenever we think someone is in jeopardy or sort of needs our help,

then we really are much more responsible than people might want to believe. It is tough with the fandom. I would say the fans do want it both ways. And so if a show is light and fluffy, then the idea is, oh, well, there's more going on and it isn't really covered and they want blood. And then when they see something that is very hard hitting,

then on the other hand, either they'll think it's too heavy or then it's somehow incumbent on us to make everything right in the world, which we just can't do, and it's not our job. So it can be tough. It seems obvious that not just Bravo, but I think reality in general has recognized that they might need to be more involved

in certain situations and make sure, obviously, everyone's safe. But to me, it's more like, again, back to the Jesse and Michelle scene last night, I mean everyone's safe it's just two people who seem to hate each other and they're talking about their child in a way that makes you go you want to judge what they're doing and it's like then it's become like I'm supporting this as a fan because I'm like oh my god give me more of this like when you guys cut away from Jesse and Michelle I'm like pissed. I'm

like no go pack you know but I'm also like just feeling like disgusted at the same time in a weird like way than it's, it's just kind of fascinating. Well, sometimes like I will take flack if I say something like I think that the cast is brave for putting it all out there and people say, well, what do you mean brave? They're being paid for it. They're on a television show or whatever. I'm like, no, but I mean, like that is a, that's a lot to open up and a lot to share. And you're opening yourself up to, you know, a lot of criticism.

So I do think that it can make for good entertainment to a point. I also think that it's a balancing act for us. And I think if an entire show is that heavy, I think then you would want to look away at a certain point. Yeah. Because there are like, ever like moments where you feel like you want to like look away at a certain point. Yeah. Because there are like ever like moments where you feel like you want to interfere,

but you can't. For example, I know that you did the Britney and Jax spin-off. So it's like you watched Britney go through so much with Jax and then to fast forward 10 years or five, eight years and it's we're on the valley doing the same thing. Like were there ever like moments where you like want to go in and be like, Britney, what are you doing? But then you're like, also, this is my job.

Sometimes you do, but I also have learned that, you really can't change the trajectory of someone's life. And so sometimes as we see these shows, if you'll sense in certain instances that a marriage maybe isn't so strong, people in it might be fighting for it. And they might think that they're better off, and down the line, they will learn, they will see.

And that's kind of just sort of what we're observing. Right. Also, I mean, in the case of Brittany, I mean, she's been warned. You know? Definitely, but I feel like it just would be hard like being like years in being like, still can I help you?

Yeah, like be a lifeline or something, you know? But then it's also, you can't really interfere with the story. Yeah, but not only that, but again, with Brittany, it's like, I'm gonna be the 15th person who's said, are you sure you wanna be with Jax? Or it's just like, she's made her decision of where her life kind of feels like.

Yeah, I mean, I don't disagree. So I don't think any of this is all that surprising. I mean, it was funny, some of the responses when Jax did my podcast and people were like, oh, well, he's revealing this now. And I'm like, well, but everyone might've thought that they knew that he had, you know, issues with drugs, but he wasn't at a point to talk about it.

And so there you go, right? And so, so that's what I would say is that it all sort of happens in time. And I agree to your point. Oftentimes a lot of people will have approached the person. Brittany had heard about that from a lot of people and she had to just go through this. Yeah, she feels it herself. That's so true.

Back to the James, Ellie Luber. Do you have any just general thoughts on like that story came out after you're done with Pum, seemingly done with this cast. You obviously know these people intimately. There are relationships. What was that story like for you? And do you, you know, did you connect with any of them? You know, obviously Lisa Vanderpump was involved,

who you work closely with. Like, what was your take on that situation? Look, I thought it was horrible on the whole for everybody involved. And so, I'm glad at this on the whole for everybody involved. And so I'm glad at this point that Ali seems like she's in a really good place. And you know, hopefully James is taking care of himself. I don't, you know, I don't know.

I was glad on the other hand that we weren't doing the series at that point because that would have been a really tough one to cover. So I think contrary to what people might think, wasn't sort of thinking, oh, well, we should have cameras up. I thought it was a very dark, tough situation and mostly just wanted to make sure that everyone and obviously Allie in particular was safe. When Scandival all happened and we picked back up cameras,

when you got the call of like, this is what's happening. What was your reaction? I couldn't believe it. So I was definitely was staggered by it. And I was, you know, one of the few who didn't believe, I thought, you know, in spite of all the evidence that we had to the contrary, I didn't actually think that there was something going on between those two,

between Tom and Rachel. And so I was, you know, floored by the fact that it happened and the way that it transpired. And also the other thing is at that point, Ariana had such a great resolve to tell the story. And I think we all were really worried about her because we thought her world could come crumbling down. And it was just the opposite.

So right away, you could see that she was drawing strength from this. And so remarkable to be in the middle of it. And our instinct right away was, we need to cover this in real time. There was a little bit of pushback to that because the idea was, we were shooting a reunion again in three weeks. So, you, so why would you do that? There was, but what ultimately prevailed is

we had a series of conversations where we realized we can do this right now. Yeah, that was a wild ride. Those few weeks after that were extraordinary. Great, so did whenever that happened, we hadn't seen the season yet, but obviously we all knew how everything ended. Did you change kind of how the show was edited

to kind of show us more of Tom and Rachel's interactions because it definitely like made people pay more attention to that knowing how it all ended up? Well, we didn't, so much of the show was locked. So I wanna say the first, I don't even remember, this might be, it was like seven episodes, I wanna say, were already locked. And so want to say the first, I don't remember this, but it was like seven episodes, I want to say, um, were already locked. And so we definitely, um, you know, look, we couldn't ignore what we knew was coming with future

episodes, but it wasn't as radical as people might think. And, and we also, the other thing is we had already keyed in on this as story. We just didn't know what the outcome was. It wasn't like we went back and radically changed what we were doing. But clearly, if you're picking interview bites going forward, right? And someone says, and you know where you're going to end, then you're more likely to use a bite from someone saying, you know, I am very suspicious of this, right? As opposed to someone saying,

there's no way there's something happening. Right, right. That makes sense. Well, let's just get into the valley. Obviously last night's episode was very much heavily centered around Jax and Brittany and him going to get this treatment. My big question, and I've kind of teased in the past

with Bravo in general, I call it like TV therapy. How does that work? How do you guys balance and make TV around topics like this and you bring in like treatment centers and these phone calls and things like that? Like how are you guys able to do that in an authentic way? Yeah, I mean, so this unfolded the first week of production. I mean, we were just getting started.

And it was like, you know, God, couldn't we just ease into this? But the world doesn't comply. And really the first order of business was Jax was going to go and do this. And so we were planning on covering it, you know, however we needed to. It was all sort of happening in real time. And so it was honestly on him and on the people around him much more than us because they were arranging for him to do this.

They figured out sort of which facility he would go into. And then we were kind of picking it up from there. I've been very critical of Jax over the years watching the show because it's just like as someone who mostly knows him through TV, he seems like a low character person. I mean, he just does. You know him way more intimately,

just the way he's able to talk to Brittany. His line of when Kristen was like, you've called her fat. And he was like, I've never called her fat. I like women that look like her. It was like, you've called her fat. And he was like, I've never called her fat. I like women that look like her. It was like, what the fuck? Yeah. It's like, it's just, it's, yeah.

There's just like this, I mean, decades of content sent around this guy being terrible to his women partners, gaslighting his friends. Like, again, what is your relationship with him? And is it just more like, yeah, I mean, like he is who he is and you try not to have judgment for someone who, whatever I think of him as a person,

he's still very much a star of the show. What is that relationship you have with Jack Stahler? Well, I think in that case, look, he's so integrated into the group. And so also you're telling Brittany's story and Brittany's, it's part of Brittany's story. So it isn't like the show is sort of, you know, forcing this to happen. We're just picking up what's really going on. Yeah, I mean, definitely, you know, to your

question, do we as producers have certain judgments or have certain thoughts? I think we do and we should. I think it's up to us to be fair. So even if we feel a certain way about something, we want to equally weight, you know, both sides and then the audience can sort of watch and pick it up. It doesn't mean we're, you know, giving equal validity to it, but I think that Jax expresses himself in this. I think people are free to, to, you know, sort of make whatever judgment they want. And so I, you know, with the Valley, not only is Jax Brittany's husband, but also, as you can see,

the rest of the group is very much involved in what goes on between them. And so we're just, we're really covering it. It's a hard, heavy thing to cover, but we'd be remiss if we weren't telling, you know, really the central story, not just to his life, but we'd be remiss if we weren't telling, you know, really the central story, not just to his life, but to hers. Outside of Jackson Brittany's storyline, is there a particular storyline that you are excited for the audience to learn more about as the season kind of unpacks? Yeah, I think there's a few of them.

I think that what works out really well with The Valley is that it's a big cast and I think the story is constantly developing and so I don't think you end up on the hamster wheel too much. There is heavy story, it's all right there in front of us. And the other thing I would say is that in that show, the story develops on camera, so it's not, we're not picking things up after the fact. So you see Jax go to rehab. We don't hear about it. It's not a conversation after, so I think that's compelling.

But really to me, it's that there's a lot of story that is constantly developing, and I sort of think in that show, everyone pulls their weight. Do you ever notice people self-producing in ways that you find irritating? All the time. What's the most irritating? Oh, it's so annoying.

Well, I think sometimes people fight the idea that we cast them on the show to be themselves. I always say, in someone's first season on a show, you want them to be who they really are. In the second season to be on, you want them to be who they used to be because the feedback necessarily changes who they are. So that can be really annoying. And sometimes, I think that you're making a show with a bunch of Reddit threads that are clashing into each other

and that's really annoying. So yeah, it's very annoying. But I understand it's also human nature when you get really strong feedback in different directions, how can you just tune that out? It's very annoying, but I understand it's also human nature when you get really strong feedback in different directions. How can you just tune that out? It's hard. Have you ever been like, cut, uh-uh, no, try again. Sometimes we do that.

I mean, sometimes we will say, it's fine. Even if we don't like what someone's saying, that's okay as long as it's authentically what they, who they are and what they wanna say. But there are times when I'm like, you can't really believe what you're saying right now. This is total bullshit, let's be honest. I am curious to ask your question as a producer,

and you and I have had this conversation long ago offline. Bravo, obviously, Housewives, the franchise, has been around for 15, I don't know, how many, 20 years? 20 years, I feel like, at this point. When Bravo really started, the zeitgeist of pop culture, TV is different, how we consume things are different, podcasts didn't even exist when this show started.

The way fans cover these shows, 10, 15 years ago, Bravo really was able to kind of, it's like, all right, we're gonna film these group of people for a period of time, we'll edit it, we'll put it on ice for a while, then it will play, then we'll have a reunion, then we'll start pick up cameras again. And now very much like part of reality TV,

our shows like The Vile Files and other shows that, and bloggers and people online talking about it, you have cast members having their own shows and podcasts talking about what's going on, their opinion. And I know like networks, for example, wanna like, they wanna control it, they wanna keep it in house. It's like harder to do. And I'm just more for like, I'm always trying to encourage the networks and production companies to embrace the conversations that are out there and just let this show live outside of itself and just continue

to adapt. Because in my experience, the best producers are the ones who are able to adapt because in my experience the best producers are the ones who are able to adapt. They really you know just let this world play out however it plays out if it wants to play out online great but like it's just more content rather than trying to pretend like the world outside of filming doesn't exist which I feel like was easier for you guys to do 10 years ago, how do you kind of see that as a producer of these shows? Yeah, I completely agree. I think that we have to embrace the ecosystem.

I think that we can't control the world and we shouldn't try to do it. I think we definitely benefit from the constant conversation about the shows. So I think it's super important to the show's popularity. And look, a show is in trouble if no one is talking about it. And so I think we have to know that. On the other hand, I think the thing that can be frustrating is I think when the outside world overtakes what the show might be about, I

think that's an issue and there's nothing more annoying in a Housewives for example, when you have this convoluted storyline that is just about dueling appearances on podcasts or just things that people don't really care about and you're explaining these teeny tiny things that aren't really about their relationship to each other. I think that can be kind of annoying

and I think you don't want the people that you're following on the shows just to turn into creatures who just hop between podcasts and say shady things about each other. So that's really annoying. I think you want to filter that out, but I completely agree. We have had to adapt and evolve and I'm grateful. I think, you know, part of the reason that I have shows that have been on for a long time is we've managed to evolve the shows on their own, right? So even the definition of what a housewife is, I don't even know exactly what it is

in the best possible sense, right? And then on the other hand, we benefit from the fact that there is a super passionate community that is constantly talking about the shows. It's really important to us. Sheena made a quick cameo last night via a phone call. that is constantly talking about the shows. It's really important to us. Yeah. Sheena made a quick cameo last night via a phone call. I think there's been speculation that Lala and Schwartz

might show up. How did those conversations happen? And how do you balance leveraging the celebrity that, you know, these characters have built through the years of the success of Vanderpump, but at the same time asking, like, do we need them? Do they help add to the story or is it more like, you know, Sheena needs a paycheck so like we're gonna bring her on and and things like that.

Well, we definitely felt how heading into the second season that we wanted to bring back the entire group from the first season We were overstuffed anyway And so there were a lot of rumors that we were bringing on some of the Vanderpump cast to be full time and I shut those down, it was not happening. But at the same time, they are a part of that friend group. So it makes sense to see them. And frankly, it would be sort of inauthentic

if you didn't see them because you would be leaving them out solely because that would be a creative decision that you were making. Going forward, who knows? I think a lot of things are possible. Again, I still think it's a really strong cast and it's voluminous already, but we'll see. I think it's possible that we open it up a little bit,

but I like the fact that between the first and second season, we just ran it back with the same group. Is there a character on the Valley that we might, over the course of the season, form a different opinion of them prior to the one we had of them season one? I actually think it's possible for a few of them. So I think it's very early yet,

because we're in the second episode out of 15, and then we have to shoot the reunion. So God help us all. It'll be a very long day. But yeah, I think so. I think that, you know, just like nobody had on their bingo card that Jesse and Kristen would become friends. I think, you know, the audience may find that they feel differently about a few of the cast members through the season. And again, I think that's the thing that's fun about it is I think that, you know, it's constantly evolving. Who are you most fascinated with in this particular cast?

I think it's a very strong group on the whole. I'm really interested in growth. And so I think Brittany has a strong season because I think she asserts herself in a way that she never has. So I find that super compelling as someone who has known her personally for all these years and sort of made, you know, the shows with her.

I think same thing with Kristin, you know, and I think she's in a very different place. So it sort of changes for me based on what's happening, but I love seeing someone turn into a different version of themselves and in an unstudied way. Jumping to Housewives of Orange County, are y'all still filming or have you wrapped filming? We're still filming.

Wow, damn. I feel like that's a long time, no? Or do I just not have my timeline right? It's normal, it just feels very long to me. Okay, okay. Anything you can tease or share with them. But we had Tamra being like, I'm done, I'm quitting, and then I'm back.

Yeah, that's how long the season is. It's like, yeah, no. It's kind of long. He was ready to be done. It's strong, It's strong. I just looked at a, the first cut of the first episode of 1901. And it's really good. And it's funny because I didn't even, you know, I very much know what is happening, but I sort of watched it fresh because it's been such a long season. So I'm excited about it. And I think it'll be a very eventful end of the season

as well, and I have no idea what's gonna happen. It's exciting. Yeah. That's really exciting. Wow, I'm counting. Can you shed any light on the rumors of Debbie Metinopoulos talking about possibly joining the cast of Real Housewives of Beverly Hills?

Yeah, I mean, I will say this. We have not yet made any decisions on what we're doing. So I sort of, you know, as much as anyone, eagerly read those and that's, you know, it's like, Oh, yeah, I might get good to know. Can I go home now? You know, so do you ever like, I mean, there's always a lot of fan speculation, blogs, rumors, ideas. Do you guys ever like get ideas from fans where they go, oh, actually, should we look into that person or should we bring back Lisa Rinna, stuff like that? I mean, open to it because, but typically,

they're ideas that we would have thought of. I mean, especially if it comes to bringing someone back, then obviously we're aware that that might be an option. But yeah, I mean, every if it comes to bringing someone back, it's like, you know, then, you know, obviously we're aware that that might be an option. But yeah, I mean, every once in a while, someone will have, you know, a great idea. Just like every once in a while, you'll read a tagline. And I'm like, but you nailed it.

Do you ever see something online with your cast members outside of filming where you do wish like you were filming, like for example, recently, Kyle and Teddy were out walking the streets of Beverly Hills and seemed to get in a dispute with a dog walking lady without any audio that we all saw we all saw it but like we all want to know what happened what went down and like like are you watching it like us like like us being like oh fuck what

was so funny so Kyle sent me that video right right, as it happened, and I wrote back to her, give that lady a diamond. But yeah, no, that happens all the time. But you kind of accept at this point that you're just not gonna be able to catch everything. We used to feel that way about Vanderpump because there was so much turmoil in that group that the minute that you put down cameras,

you were missing story. But what are you gonna do? You can't be there for anything. That had to have been like frustrating for so long and then at some point you're like, God, I just gotta give it up. Yeah, you just submit yourself to it. It's like at that point, we're doing 20 episodes.

Yeah, yeah. Do you guys ever have conversations, like for example, Love Island is a show that is like essentially almost live. The turnaround is insane. Insane. The turnaround is insane. The way technology is going, AI, the world's just more fast paced,

news is old, so fast. Do you ever see a world where production companies like yours, Bravo in general, it's more like Truman Show in real time, like docu-series and getting content out there. Is that something like you wish the technology was available to you or are you almost like, like we're too much is changing too fast?

It's a great question. I think that a sort of faster intake would be great in certain circumstances. Obviously the Kardashians did it because, you know, the previous iteration of their show felt like old news when you were watching it, because you would already consume. So much happens with them.

Yeah, you already consume the story. They're just so out there in the public and they're being covered constantly. Totally. So I think it's a little bit different when the stories aren't already out there, but I do think that sometimes I think we could increase our metabolism.

And look, for me, that would mean fewer notes. So I'm okay with that. All right. You mentioned Kyle texted you, there's a narrative out there that Kyle kind of calls the shots on Beverly Hills. Would you say that's accurate or would you say that's just complete?

Like she's just been there, she knows her thing and people are just making that up. It's so funny because I always laugh at that. It's like the idea that any one person on the shows could call their shots. Like I just was having a conversation with someone recently, a prospective cast member of Beverly Hills, and she was saying that someone is like, you know, someone high profile and was like, um, well, I get an EP credit on the show. And I was like, that is such a laugh because nobody gets a credit. Nobody has any say whatsoever. And so it isn't

true. Also, I feel like you wouldn't want to as a housewife. Like then it just makes you look like you're too in it. You know, it's like, if you have a producer credit, it's like. Well, Vicky Gundleson is still very upset that she does not have editing rights. And she very much thinks she deserves it. But only if she is a producer on the show

because she credits herself for the entire success of it. Well, I think when she launches Woohoo Productions, I think she can, you know, she can produce her own shows. But yeah, I mean, no one would be impossible in a show like that for anyone, you know, to have that sort of power. You couldn't make it. And look, there's been plenty of things that Kyle hasn't loved in the show.

True. I'm just asking for a friend. What requirements does it take for somebody there's been plenty of things that Kyle hasn't loved in the show. True. Yeah. I'm just asking for a friend, what requirements does it take for somebody to get on a Housewives series, like for them to be considered? Ooh, question. Well, I think it's sort of a bunch of different qualities.

Obviously, you're looking for someone who makes sense within that group, right? And so the more connected they are, the better. And I think someone who captures your imagination. So someone who has a different point of view, someone who is unafraid to express that point of view, I think someone who, I always say sort of both fits in and stands out, that kind of thing.

And so, and at this point we're attracted to originals. So I think if you watch someone in casting and it feels like you've already seen them before in some way, you're less attracted to them. Just taking notes. Is Katie on the next season of Orange County? Did she get brought back? Katie's on the season.

Katie is, okay. I felt like she honestly was a good cast. I felt like she was bringing the outside interaction she had with Heather, you know, and bringing them to the show and not afraid to bring the rumors. I felt like she was a pretty good cast. It was a good group. It was a good season. That show's had a couple strong seasons in a row. Is Alexis back?

Alexis is not on this season. And I thought that, and I'm curious because she was such a big part of last season and such a big part of the storyline between her and Shannon and it makes a lot of sense why she's not back given that relationship and the importance of Shannon, at least right now to the show, but as a producer of a show that relied so heavily on one character and a storyline. Yeah, like that's something you go into a season a little nervous about? And yeah, how do you make those difficult decisions? Yeah, I mean, at that point, to your point, it wouldn't really have made sense because, and I don't know that there was anywhere to go from there.

And you know, I mean, what are they gonna get together and throw a bridal shower? I mean, you know, so. Yeah, yeah. But I think everyone has to step up and fill that void. And then we were excited to have Gretchen back. And so, that felt like we also were injecting something that's both new into the group,

but then also makes sense and has a history with the group. So I don't mind that. And I don't think that the formula of a previous season is necessarily the same for the next season. Awesome. I feel like we could pick your brain all day long. Yeah, literally. I'm like, so you're saying there's a chance.

Huh. Anything you wanna leave us with before we let you go? I don't think so. I would say the other project that I'm excited about is the Kristin Cavallari series for E. So is that her podcast tour? Is that, was that? Yeah, exactly. Okay, okay.

I saw her post about that. It's a fun blend of the podcast itself and then also the tour. Okay. I heard her say she kind of, I don't know if she said regretted, but I think about showing her children in the first very Cavalieri that she did. Is her family life a little bit more involved in this show that you're doing? It is. It was a show that we shot very quickly

because the tour obviously was super compressed. So you see some of her kids and she's getting ready for the tour. And it's great to see, it's fun to see her as a mom. And it's cool, she's obviously such a pro at this and so open that it's fun to see her both when she's sort of performing and doing the podcast itself, and then also just kind of, you know, hanging out and letting loose.

How fast did that come together? Really fast, because it's great when you need an answer on a project because you're chasing, you know, a deadline. And so that was a, we were picked up in January and the tour was in March and then it airs in June. Wow. Yeah. It's wild. picked up in January and the tour was in March and then it airs in June. Amazing. Yeah. It's wild.

Well Alex, this has been a ton of fun. Please come back. Hopefully we weren't too hard on you. No, not at all. Thanks for having me. Yeah, again, thanks again for making such great TV and giving us some insight on the shows that we love watching and excited to see these new projects

and excited to see the Valley continue to unfold. Seems like a really good season. I'm very locked in and just great to talk with you. I appreciate it, thanks guys. Thank you. Alex Baskin, everybody. Always fun to talk to the creators of these shows. Honestly, that's so cool and exciting for me.

That's like my nerd kink. I'm like, oh my God, tell me more. But also it's just nice to hear from them because I think when it comes to these types of shows, there's always so much interest in speculation. And like I always say, like, you know, specifically like a batch of producers, like people talk about producers

as if they're like these kind of mythical, like people you never really see, you know, and they act like it's like three wizards in a tower, like, you know, like puppet masters. And's like three wizards in a tower, like. Manipulating the minds. You know, like puppet masters. And it's like, these are people with jobs, they're like creative jobs,

and like you just kind of hear them talk. It's just like, it's, you know, it's a very unique job. Like for example, like watching The Valley Back or just watching Mormon Housewives. Like we do have to recognize as fans, like we enjoy the drama, the toxicity. Like, you know, it's like, it's how much can you,

I mean, we do judge, like, you know what I'm saying? Like when Jesse and Michelle are having this conversation, you know, like it's hard not to judge two people who seem to be like inserting their child into their drama. Jesse saying he wants to prioritize his career, like his professional life, his single dad life and his private life. It was like, isn't your private life

and your single dad life the same? Yeah. Like, okay. And why does he talk like he still expects Michelle to like care about his loneliness? It's so toxic though, because Michelle's like, you always cry. You wanna make me look cold.

I know, that was crazy. This is a lot of fighting that like. It was like she knows him so well to know that like, oh these cameras are up and you're crying because you know that that's gonna win people over and I'm gonna look like this cold bitch. And then he calls Sheena to have someone out that she was hooking up with the Baywatch guy

or kissing him. And it's like this is tip for tat. But is it working for anyone? Jessie never comes across a good guy. Well, that's even, my boyfriend's back in town, so we rewatched the first episode going into the second episode, and it's just kind of even the apology to Kristin.

It's like, would that have happened if we're not going through this divorce and trying to win sides? Well, when he, you know, the schedule, he's like, this is the new schedule and this is what you're, excuse me? And he's like, and then you're going to drop her off to the nanny and she's like, what nanny? And he's like, it doesn't matter.

And it's like, my child is going to be picked up by this person. Nothing says bad dad. Like I don't care who takes care of my kid when I'm not there. As long as she's not with you. It's also just giving a toxic divorce. Because I will say that's very realistic communication the way that they're doing it on camera. Yeah, I mean, again, in which, again,

it's hard to sit there and say, it's a fascinating thing. To your original point, I feel like I enjoy reality TV so much because I do feel like it's like psychology 101. There's a bunch of situations that are in people's real lives that I may never experience, hopefully will never experience,

but seeing how people handle it. And it's like, you think to yourself like, oh, I would do this so differently. Or like, I can't believe they're doing this with cameras there, but it's just like, no, this is their real lives and how they're reacting to things. And not everybody has a great on-camera reaction.

There were two moments where I empathize with Jax and Jesse. And it was centered around the same topic. There was a scene where Michelle was FaceTiming her boyfriend to her daughter and she goes, I love you. I don't know how long they've been dating. I understand that like when you get a divorce and you date and like certainly you want people to care for your children's, you know,

never wanna think about Nellie and I not working out, but you know, it's just like, it's not like you want your child to be wrong and someone who hates them, but it sure seemed, it sure felt a little icky almost to like have this strange man who like may or may not be in Michelle's future two years from now, they just started dating, who knows,

to be saying I love you to this, if I'm Jesse, I'm like what, are you fucking kidding me? That would be so hurtful and despite me having almost no empathy or understanding for Jax Taylor, when he was like you're sending pictures of my kid to some guy you're dating would make me uncomfortable. Like, you know, like, and maybe that is a territorial thing. You know, like I feel incredibly blessed and grateful.

Like when I watch these shows, it's just like, I'm so grateful of what we have. And it just makes me be like, just we, you know, more and more like determined to like make sure we protect our relationship or, you know, more and more like determined to like make sure we protect our relationship, you know, it's just like, I'm so grateful to not be going through what they're going through. And I have so much empathy for parents who go through divorce and the children who go through it

because like watching the show, it's just like, it's such a sad situation, you know? It is, it is, but I'm like, that's what I do appreciate about it, where I'm like, a lot of people are like, oh, it's really sad or it's really depressing, it's dark to watch, but I'm like, that's what I do appreciate about it, where I'm like, a lot of people are like, oh, it's really sad, or it's really depressing, it's dark to watch, but I'm like, no,

this is like real life, and this is like the age group in which some relationships aren't working out. I could watch, honestly, the whole episode could have been Jesse and Michelle, and I would have watched. Side note, there's a show called Couples Therapy, and it's very, very interesting to watch. You know, and Jasmine, my former act, no.

Jasmine, who was on my season of The Bachelor, who made an exit by choking me, you really knew in that moment she was more meant for Bravo than for ABC did. True. She's coming in now. Who wouldn't, I didn't realize that she was auditioning for The Valley way back when.

I will say the, Britney finding the thong with the baby wipe on it looked. Unhinged. It looked placed. Oh, for sure. It looked like Jack was, Jack's was like, Oh, Britney's coming over. Maybe she left her thong, but like the baby,

like I'm trying to think of like my actions and I'm not sure where those would fall, you know? I don't know how the baby wipe is on top of the panties. You have a point. You're hiding the evidence. You're throwing the baby wipe away. Literally. Why are you leaving the baby wipe on the counter? But then again, I did see Jax pour a Big Gulp into a, like,

Stanley or something, and then put the empty Big Gulp plastic cup in the sink. The lipstick. In the sink. It was like, okay. Yeah. I guess. It's tit for tat because then Jax invited her over to stay in the house because he found the photos

on Brittany's iPad or whatever it was. So it's like, it's couples literally just tit for tatting. Yeah. I have kind of a hard time with the Valley and I think it's like, maybe it's my own like emotional immaturity of just, it's a completely different point in my life where like it's like to watch Vanderpump,

like Vanderpump hits me way harder cause I'm like, these are my people. Southern hospitality. Southern hospitality, like that works for me, but like the Southern, like Southern Charms still works for me because they are Peter Pan's, but I think the valley it's like, I'm just, it's just kind of mind-working to me.

You're probably watching, and I don't know, maybe this is like coming from an older. I'm watching in fear. It's gonna happen. I don't know, but like when I was your age, when you see things like Jesse and Michelle fighting over a divorce, you think that will never happen to me, you know?

There's so many like adult things that when you're younger, you just assume that shit that will never happen to me. There's so many adult things that when you're younger, you just assume that shit's not gonna happen to me. I'm not gonna cheat, I'm not gonna get cheated on. I would never do that with my partner if we got divorced. And I'm watching it thinking, I'm so lucky to not have to be in this position and thank God, and then it warns you of how delicate these things can be, but you're right.

Well, this is no one plans for a divorce. No one's going into a marriage being like, well, this is definitely gonna end. Especially when it's not something that's prevalent in your life, though, you just can't relate, because that reminds me when I was younger, I would watch The O.C.,

and then I would fast forward through the adults scenes, because I was like, what, they don't give a shit, and now when I watch it, it's like I relate to them so hard. I'm like, oh my God, no, she just tears. She just, I was like, annoying mom, let's get to the teens. You know, that made me think about your comment. I was last night and I don't know if this was like a high thought.

It probably was. Can we have more of these? Sorry. But I was in the line at Chipotle. Great start. Check that out. Literally. And it really, I had like a moment.

I had like, and maybe, I don't know, but like Chipotle, it's a, what I love about the line, not Chipotle, the line of Chipotle. You had a thought about the line of Chipotle. The line organization, I have a lot of feelings about line organization. No, I was grateful. I was grateful for the line at Chipotle.

It is an incredibly diverse line. And I don't like, diverse in so many ways, but age diverse. And I got there and I'm in line and I saw different people at different stages in their life. And it reminded me of like when I was in college going to Chipotle. And I saw like two girls who were like in a study group. And then I saw some other, it's like,

this guy, he's here because this is all he can afford. And this person, and I was looking at everyone in line trying to figure out the stage of their life, of Chipotle, because it really is inclusive. Meanwhile, I'm at home bathing our daughter. The way we are the world is playing in the background of my mind as he's telling this story.

Honestly, that's beautiful. It really just like, it made me reflect on like, I honestly, like the various, I mean, I've reinvented myself in so many ways and just, it really reminded me of just the different stages of my life when I was in line at Chipotle. And I'm still going in line at Chipotle at a different stage of my life, being like, I remember that stage of life and I remember that stage of life. And it was like, thank you Chipotle

for this like reflection in my life. That's actually really beautiful. Thank you. Thank you marijuana. You have to go the next step down, perceive yourself standing in the Chipotle while someone else is thinking of you as a stage of life. Yeah.

Oh. Wow. So crazy. Yeah. Oh. There you go. Wow. Crazy. Yeah. But anyway, yeah, that's why the valley isn't hitting for me. Okay. Well, it is for me.

Can we talk about Meredith real fast? Yeah. What is going on? Mary's been tracking this. There's a lot of like, where the Meredith quit. I've been on the ground. She was fired, she's paused, she's back.

Reports as the Meredith source who's been following the story very closely. Basically on Twitter, like last, was it last week? So rumors start circulating on Twitter. It's unclear where the source is coming from that Meredith has been suspended from Real Hospice of Salt Lake City after getting into a huge fight with Britney.

And this is all very confusing. I, as a reporter, am trying to track down the source of this information. And it all very confusing. I, as a reporter, am trying to track down the source of this information, and it's very unclear. It's coming from Twitter blogs and stuff like that, so it's unclear whether this is trustworthy or not. And then a source, which is a very, yes, allegedly,

a source which has a very specific cadence to it, reports to the US son that says, "'Meredith has not been suspended from the show. "'She is not pleased about the rumors "'and nastiness pun intended. "'She wouldn't be surprised if the call was coming "'from inside the house and Brittany was leaking "'all of this herself to stay relevant.

"'Meredith and Brittany get into some "'pretty nasty altercations and have some blowout fights, "'but nothing that warrants a suspension. Then, while all of this is happening, Meredith's Instagram account continuing as normal, she's posting quotes from Albrecht Camus. She is hanging out with Luanne de La Ceps in an elevator drunk and singing.

She is- Photoshopping the fuck out of her face. She's photoshopping the fuck out of her face. As she should. As she should. As she wants. And posting what she does her tagline basically to dispel the rumors that, what is it?

Jealousy is a disease. Something, yeah. Or something like that, yeah. And then the last update I have from Meredith is that she sprained her toe and she's upset about it because she can't get a pedicure. So that's what's coming from the Meredith camp. We need to ban Photoshop for housewives.

It's gotten to the point of ridiculousness. There's specific Photoshop's that I think are funny. It's when they take the confessional that we've all seen and then Photoshop on top of it as if we've never seen the original photo. Which don't they already put like a glam filter on the confessional? It's when it's an entirely different person.

Well, like Meredith's Photoshop looks a younger version of her daughter. I think it's confessional is what I've heard. They do. When it's an entirely different person. Well, like Meredith's Photoshop looks of younger version of her daughter. It's FaceApp and this filter needs to be eliminated from Housewives' phones because they're all using the same one. It's Hollywood too or whatever. If you put these photos next to each other,

they all have the same face. You have Ramona looking like a newborn child. But why? They don't look good. Teresa, do you guys? It doesn't, it's not even like, oh, fresh face. You know, it's just like, oh, someone's been moisturizing. newborn child. Why? It's, they don't look good. Did you say do nice? Yeah. It's not even like, oh, fresh face. You know, it's just like, oh, someone's been moisturizing.

It's no, someone changed their face. It's like, you know what I'm saying? You're not fooling anyone. My favorite is the Ramona though, like posting the story and then the post. That's what I'm saying, like hide the evidence. Don't do the photos you've all seen, you know? Yeah.

The source from the US sun, it sounds like Meredith was like, hey, I'm gonna tell you this, but like change it up. You know, don't make it seem like it's me. And then they did it. It's like when you like copy someone's homework, they're like, yeah, sure you can copy, but like change it a little bit.

Especially when you're Meredith and you have such a specific way of speaking. And so you know it came out, and Meredith was like, fuck. Fuckers. I told him to change a couple words. I would never, no, my Meredith, you guys, my Meredith's kind of speaking. And so you know it came out and Meredith was like, fuck. Fuckers. I told him to change a couple words. I would never, no, my Meredith, you guys, my Meredith's kind of gone.

I don't know. Is a quick callback to the Valley. Zach, was that Zach? Zach? Zach. He made it seem like dick pics are an early exchange in the dating process in the gay community. I mean, he also, this is my own interpretation, met him on Grindr, which is an app that's for more

than just dating, because he goes in quotes a dating app. Which I'm like, okay. So I mean, it makes sense, what he's saying, specifically for that context. But it's not as if like, hi, what's your name? Brett, here's my dick. Because that's what Zach was basically saying. On that app it is.

On that app, okay. Maybe not even a high, just picture. I think instead of like profile photos, it's anatomy. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. There was also, speaking of Salt Lake City, did you see this Nick? A video of Michael Jordan getting off of a yacht

and like there's a girl in front of him like it's off first that looks almost identical to Whitney Rose. And like everybody's tagging her being like, is this you, is this you? Why are you on a yacht with Michael Jordan? And she hasn't confirmed whether it's her or not, but she did say, why is everybody tagging me in this? So I'm assuming that means it's not her.

It's not her, it's definitely her. But it looks like her, right? I didn't look that deep at it because I just assume it was not. It's definitely not her, but she's wearing like a Whitney Rose fit too. I mean, it's- With the ginger hair.

So it's like it's- That's 100% her. That's Whitney Rose. That's what I'm saying. I'm like, the appearance is Rose. That's what I'm saying. I'm like the appearance is Identical it's a very yes. It is What are the odds that a girl died or her ginger the same time that she had ginger hair? Okay, well listen, I think she's friends with Michael Jordan's like wife or daughter or someone

Should I just text Whitney and ask her? Yeah, hey. Yeah, you should. This you? It definitely looks like her, but like it definitely could not be her. But also if it was her, why would she not flex that she was hanging out with Michael Jordan? She reposted the video. So she's making fun of it.

So it's not her. Who knows? Because if I'm on a yacht hanging out with Michael Jordan, I'm gonna be like- I'm posting about it, yeah. Yeah. All right, I don't have a number saved with Michael Jordan, I'm gonna be like- I'm posting about it, yeah. Yeah. All right, I don't have a number saved. I will, I'll text her later.

Nick, you gotta save numbers. Nick, you gotta get to the bottom of this. He's gotta start saving numbers. I do. You gotta save numbers. Let the speculation continue. Thank you to our guest, Alice Baskin, for giving us all the insight and all things Bravo,

specifically the Valley. Be sure to check out Vox Files Plus for all your weekly updates on all your pop culture topics we didn't get to talk about this week, plus your update specials of all the Ask Nick update callers, our Vanderpump recaps, all available on Plus. It's free to sign up, try it out for seven days, whether you listen to our, the show on Apple,

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