The Viall Files - E932 - Tom Schwartz, Summer House, RHOA, The Valley, Karen Read, Mother’s Day & Taylor Swift Subpoenaed

Episode Date: May 13, 2025

Welcome back to The Viall Files: Reality Recap!  We start off with a recap of Natalie’s Mother’s Day extravaganza and get into Taylor Swift’s subpoena along with updates on Karen Read takes. Then, real life Kramer Tom Schwartz stops by to get into some Summer House, The Valley, RHOA, life post VPR, spill some Bravo BTS, reveal whether he’s in the Boys Chat, and more! Also, rip Rite Aid :( “So many cancellable offenses...” Subscribe to The ENVY Media Newsletter Today: https://www.viallfiles.com/newsletter  OUT NOW! Listen to Humble Brag with Cynthia Bailey and Crystal Kung Minkoff. Available wherever you get your podcasts and YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@humblebragpod https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/humble-brag-with-crystal-and-cynthia/id1774286896 Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes. Follow us on X/Twitter: https://twitter.com/TheViallFiles Listen To Disrespectfully now! Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/disrespectfully/id1516710301 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0J6DW1KeDX6SpoVEuQpl7z?si=c35995a56b8d4038 Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCh8MqSsiGkfJcWhkan0D0w To Order Nick’s Book Go To: http://www.viallfiles.com  If you would like to get some texting advice on Office Hours send an email to [e-mail] with “Texting Office Hours” in the subject line! To advertise on this podcast please email: [e-mail] or go to: https://advertising.libsyn.com/theviallfiles     THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Quince - Elevate your closet with Quince. Go to https://quince.com/viall for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. BILT - Start paying rent through Bilt and take advantage of your Neighborhood Benefits by going to https://joinbilt.com/viall  SkyLight Frames - Right now, Skylight is offering our listeners $30 off their 15 inch Calendars by going to https://skylightcal.com/viall  OneSkin - For a limited time, you can try OneSkin with 15% off using code VIALL at https://oneskin.co  Timestamps: (00:00) - Intro (06:09) - Programming Notes (08:03) - Disney Movies (11:09) - Karen Read Case (24:41) - Reflecting with Tom Schwartz (41:15) - Summer House (47:21) - Salt and Pepper (51:33) - Tom’s Podcast (55:02) - Battle Camp (58:22) - The Tom Interview (01:03:09) - The Valley/VPR (01:10:18) - RHOBH (01:14:30) - RHOA (01:21:18) - Jax Dilema and TomTom (01:30:51) - Rite Aid (01:32:07) - More Summer House (01:36:55) - RHONY (01:39:09) - Winter House (01:41:08) - Celebrity Crushes and True Crime (01:46:41) - BravoCon (01:48:18) - Outro Episode Socials:  @viallfiles @nickviall @nnataliejjoy @twschwa @ciaracrobinson @justinkaphillips @leahgsilberstein @dereklanerussell

What's going on everybody? Welcome back to another episode of the Vyfiles Reality Recap Edition. I am your host Nick and I have survived Mother's Day. Give it up for me. He did. He did a great job surviving. It's a pass or fail situation, you know what I'm saying?

Right? No. Or is it like a letter grading in your mind? Well, no, sometimes it's like, oh, like the morning was really great and then like it kind of just became a normal day after that, you know, which is like on my birthday, on Mother's Day, I guess it was a really, like my holidays, you know, like I want,

like I want from sunup to sundown to be like, no one stops talking about how great I am, you know? And Nick did a great job of that. Very quickly at night, I did ask for three minutes of being inside of each other's skin and he allowed three minutes. Did we set a timer? Oh, and the second it hit 10, 12,

he was like, all right. It was 10, 09, she's like, until 10, 12. Yeah. Yeah. And it wasn't like a normal snug, I like a snug. This was- It was a smug. Inside your skin.

This was a suffocation. I had to hold my breath for three years. Were you on a couch? We were in bed. That's cozy. Yeah. Sierra, thank you for picking up the gift. Oh, you did?

Yeah. Oh, you didn't know? No. No. I thought that was Cindy, who was doing all of that. No, I asked Sierra. You asked Sierra? Yeah.

Oh my God. At this stage of her seasoned life that Cindy's in, I don't know if sending her to Beverly Hills is the move. Right. And I got a free glass of champagne, so. Did you? You're welcome. Period. Period. Period.

No, I woke up and Nick let me sleep in. To what time? We love, he let me do that last year. What time did you sleep in to? Eight. Okay, that's good do that last year. What time did you sleep into? Eight. Okay, that's good. Really? Eight.

I didn't wake her up. No, you did bring River in. That's true, I brought River in with a gift. So you did wake me up. You literally woke me up. You brought River in and she went, mama! And you said, happy Mother's Day, we have a gift. And you gave me a card and a present, and Rivi gave me. Correction, it was 8.45, I know this, because I looked at the clock and I said, happy Mother's Day, we have a gift. And you gave me a card and a present and Rivi gave me.

Correction, it was 8.45, I know this, because I looked at the clock and I said, well, River's gonna have to go down for her nap soon. And I imagine mom's gonna wanna see daughter before she goes down for her first nap. What time does River wake up? Six, 15-ish. She has a six a.m., she wake up and then she goes down

for a nap at like 9.30, like an hour and a half. Regimented? It is. So I had this very beautiful card that was written, who picked out the card? I did. You got that card. Yeah.

Okay. It was just some interesting looking card. There was like an owl on the- To be just totally honest, it was just like- There was like an owl on the front. There was a wall of Mother's Day cards, and I was like, there was a wall of Mother's Day cards, and I went, Eenie, Meenie, Meinie,

and I'll take this one, and I- There was a bedazzled owl on the front and at first I was like, this is even a Mother's Day card. It might've said like Happy Groundhog's Day or something, I'm not sure. But it was a very hoot. Well, our daughter was born on Groundhog's Day so that would've.

Don't she was. Hoot Happy Mother's Day. Yeah, and it was very beautiful written card. Nick wrote a very sweet message and River also wrote me a sweet message. It's very hard to get her to write these days, isn't it? Yeah, it is. I don't know if she's left or right handed.

We switched hands. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We don't know, it feels more natural yet. I just did it for our moms. Like, hold this. She's like, no. Literally, she's like this. Oh, wait, she actually wrote it?

Yeah, we hold her hand around the pen and write it. I thought you were saying Nick wrote it because sometimes the parents will switch their hand? No. No. Okay. That's cute. We hold the pen in River's hand and try to write it. That's cute, okay. It's sweet.

I wanted to know if Nick did a choreographed dance for you. No, I did not. That's what everybody has to do on Mother's Day. Any choreographed dance, not one ounce of it. But I did get a Bottega bag. And she's cute. And she's here and she's present. How did you feel when you opened it?

Oh my God, well, okay, so this is the thing. I have already, about two months ago, I secured Nick's Father's Day gift. So Nick knows when Mother's Day is, any day of the year, right? It's same, same day each year. And so it's like, he could pick out. It's not actually, but sure. Yeah.

Well, around the same time. So he has forever to like find a gift and pick out a gift. It could be something sweet. It could be something, nothing. And so. This is what it costs you when you don't give something from the heart. So I have an ongoing wish list that I add things to that's like, oh, one day I would love to own this,

whether like I work hard enough to like be able to afford it myself, or if like maybe there's a day where Nick needs like, wants to spoil me or something, I don't know. And he had to take it to the notes app, the wish list, because he waited very, very last minute, obviously. Sierra had to go and pick us up again. Well, I gotta say, if I would have, I did not,

I, big mistake on wedding planning, for one. On wedding planning? Yeah. Okay, you lost me. Well, loved our wedding. Wedding falls on the weekend of the NFL draft first, and it also happens to be two weeks before Mother's Day. So like I'm back to back from like, Jesus Christ.

I don't even get a fucking break. And stagecoach. Did you plan that? Let's be honest. It's not like the anniversary is really about me. No. You know, because like I pat on the back and you know, would probably do it for me.

You know. Or a Bottega bag. Hang in there, you're doing okay. You got a gold ring. I did, yeah, no, for sure. And then we went to the Brentwood Country Mart and had a wonderful afternoon at the Brentwood Country Mart and had brunch and shopped and River got a croissant

and she saw all these dogs and she was running up and hugging strangers and making their lives and it was just a wonderful afternoon. And then we had a smother session at night. So it was perfect. Perfect mother's day. It was great, it was great, great, great, great. We have a great, great week lined up.

It's really starting to get crazy guys. I don't think you're ready for such drama, excitement and just groundbreaking programming. But in a moment, Tom Schwartz will grace us with his presence, get a little catch up with Tommy, Tommy boy. And then tomorrow we have a huge going deeper, Miranda Hope McHorter, the new member of Mom Talk,

the new member of Secret Lives of Mormon Wives, does grace us with her presence to talk about her version of the swinging scandal, why she decided to join this cast, and all the drama that is already unfolding for season two, which premieres Thursday, the season two of The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives premieres on Thursday. And then Demi and her husband Brett will join us

for an appearance on Reality Recap. The ladies then follow us next week. We got the whole, a whole bunch of the ladies on next week for Reality Recap. It's gonna be jam packed. A lot to dive into. I next week for reality recap it's going to be jam-packed a lot to dive into i'm not ready for everything that's going on uh saw them last weekend they had a big event i hosted a panel that they were on how was that it was great it's great to see them all yeah it's uh it's when when a lot of the girls say you know i'm friends with everyone well most of them

very awkward a lot of there's a lot of there's a lot of family, well, they're fighting. Was the panel like an upfront or was it a premiere of like a couple of the episodes? It was a premiere of the first episode. It was a showcase of, they screened the first episode for a large audience. And then it was also for Emmy consideration. Emmy consideration.

Oh, they needed. A four year consideration party, I believe, yeah. And Nick hosted the panel and I don't think I've ever screamed louder to carry an audience anytime Nick said anything. I was like, wha! Oh, that was you? Oh, I wasn't.

No, it was all of us, but I started it because once I did it, then everyone was like, oh yeah, ah! Okay, well thank you for the support. What was it that you wanted to talk about, River, watching TV? Disney movies. Oh, well now that I'm watching some Disney movies, first time I've seen Frozen.

Ah, I also watched Aladdin for the first time in a long time, gotta say, doesn't hold up. Doesn't hold up? No. What? No, sorry. I agree. RIP Robin Williams, his parts slam. Awesome, Robin is great, made me laugh anytime the genie popped up, but honestly, his parts, slam. Awesome, Robin is great, made me laugh anytime the genie popped up.

But honestly, the storyline, if you're gonna make Jafar a genie, you get three more wishes. Why did they kick him to the cave of wonders? Like, they should've just, it just, I don't know, the storyline. And also, it's just like, Jasmine's a little too like sexy for like a kids movie.

It's just a little weird. That's my princess of choice. Fine, I don't know. It's not hurtful's my princess of choice. Fine, I don't know. It's not her fault. It's too much adult humor, I don't know. Something about the old school Cinderella's, the Snow Whites, they just seem more simple for the kiddos. Aladdin was old school.

Yeah, but it was like 1990. It was like the first. That's not old school. I'm talking about 1955. Okay, valid. And then there was, you know, there's, but Frozen is awesome. I love Frozen. Really, really great.

I have never seen it. Certainly I've heard the hype over the years of all the kiddos and the past generations really loving that. Made me cry a little bit. For the first time, I really wanted River to have a sister. Aw. And I got a little choked up.

That's how I let off my emotions. Yeah. Crying to Disney movies? Well, just like commercials, happy moments on movies or TV shows, that's how I release my pent up rage and emotions. That's your inner child. Yeah. But I just, people always talk about how men

just push down their emotions, which I think is honestly, hot take, somewhat appropriate. I don't think we need to be crying all the time about everything. I think, you know, sometimes our feelings are our business and not everyone else's, I'm just saying. But every once in a while we do have to release. And for me, it's a good happy moment on TV. And I will shed a tear, I'll wipe it,

and I'll move on with my day. And that allows me to stay sane in life. I was gonna say, what percent of rage does that clear out the one glistening tear? Yeah, whatever, just emotion, trauma, just everything that's going on in my life, I just push it down when I see a happy moment. But like the two sisters-

Our stumble sashes don't get that out for you? That's true. That adds to the trauma. That added to it. Wait, what was your favorite song from Frozen? I'd probably let it go, I don't know. It does carry. Kristen Bell is fantastic in it. Which one did River go. I don't know. It does carry.

Kristen Bell is fantastic in it. Which one did River like? She doesn't really watch. Honestly. I'm like, Nick, she doesn't give a fuck about this and you're like glued to the TV. So like, who is this on for? Frozen. Let it go. Let it go. She could not care less.

She couldn't. I know. I kind of wish she was maybe a little bit more of a iPad baby, but. Does she just walk around during the movie or? Oh yeah, she's just like playing with her toys. She's like really not, she'll like look up every now and then if it's like very colorful or like, but she doesn't like sit and watch. How was your mother's day, Leia?

Oh, mine was good. I went to Texas for a bat mitzvah. So it was a big travel day. Oh my God. But it was, it was good. It went to Texas for a bat mitzvah, so it was a big travel day. Oh my God. But it was good. It was nice to be away. Nick thinks that Karen Reed is. Well, hold on.

Nick and I got into it over on Plus. Y'all did? Well, first of all, Taylor Swift has finally been subpoenaed by Justin Baldoni's lawyer. We haven't really talked about this case. Our opinions are steadfast, well my opinion is steadfast. No mine is too.

I believe Natalie's is as well. To me this shows that Justin's legal team is doing more of the same, which is just trying to bully the other side. Because obviously they want the attention. They wanna bring in Taylor Swift. They wanna peel back the curtain. They want her to tell her friends,

Ryan and Blake, to like have this go away. And I think it's just more of the same of them trying to make it very difficult to fight this fight. But we will see what happens. It did come out that Blake will testify. I mean, I imagine, yeah. I imagine a lot of people testify,

including the alleged witnesses. I really hope we'll be able to watch. We are at the Karen Reid trial, because I am loving to sit at home and watch the case. So about Karen Reid, and I just, you know, I know there's a lot of people out there very passionate about, and let me just say, I am not as convinced of her innocence as I was last week.

That's what I'm saying. If I, listen, what I think, and listen, I haven't been following, like many of you out there who have in fact, so like, fuck do I, I haven't been following it like many of you out there who have in fact, you know, so like fuck my opinion, I'm a stupid motherfucker, you know? Just I wanna clear that up for anyone who just like, wants to like, just be triggered by what I'm about to say. But it's just like, here's the thing,

I think she has a great legal team, I think there's probably some dirty cops over on the other side. Nothing people have come up with have proven her innocence or have proven that anyone else is responsible for this death. And I just find that overall, it's just way more believable that she was responsible for his death than the defense team's story, which is like a whole group of people conspired together.

There's just a bunch of theories. And I just, I don't find their version believable, which is why this is, when you watch that HBO documentary, which is, you know, like why it was like a hung jury, because I think they don't believe their version. It's just more like, but I don't, I do think she should be acquitted. I think there's plenty of reasonable doubt.

I don't think the state has done their job to prove that she did it. And I think the burden falls on the state. And I think the reason why we have the laws that we have, I think it's upon the government who has essentially unlimited funding. I mean, you know, unless you're a bazillionaire, you're always like the small person. You're the David and the David versus Goliath when you're going against the state, when they have like unlimited resources of taxpayer dollars.

So I think the burden's on them. That being said, I just don't believe, it's just. They didn't check the house where the body was found. So what? And whatever happened to him There could have been so much evidence in there. happened inside that house. Again, you, I understand. The dog injuries on his arm?

So again, you have a bunch of theories. Everyone has theories. I understand there's a bunch of theories and they're salacious and listen, it's just. Those are facts. It's what? What are facts. What, what are facts? That he has dog injuries on his arm, that they did not go inside the house.

That's not a fact, that's not a, that wasn't a fact, that's a dog injury, that's a theory. There was no dog DNA, there was pork. I don't know, dog treats, I get it, but also bacon. Listen, I'm just saying her version, the defense team's version is less believable. It's just less believable. It's more believable that an act of God happened

where two drunk people and there was an accident and she knew nothing about it, then it's more believable that a group of people have conspired to kill a guy. And in real time, they decided to like, you know what, how should we kill him? We should just let him freeze to death. And let's just make sure we Google it to figure out.

Nick is really hung up on the, like, and I was like, there's so much more. Because that was my smoking gun. That was the reason. There's so much more. She hit him at going, what, 10 miles an hour? He's like a six foot tall guy. But the snow plow guy was like, never saw a body.

His story has changed. From what to what? Oh, you don't know? I know his story has changed. But you don't know what it's changed from? It doesn't matter. Oh, it doesn't matter. All of a sudden, it doesn't matter.

Him not seeing something doesn't mean something wasn't there. It means he wasn't know what it's changed from. It doesn't matter. Oh, it doesn't matter all of a sudden. It doesn't matter. Him not seeing something doesn't mean something wasn't there. It means he wasn't looking for it. It means there was a blizzard. Again, I don't know what happened. I'm just saying her innocence is less believable than I thought before. And I think people just have a bunch of theories.

I have a question. Whenever you're ready to answer my question. Brian Albert is the owner of the house. The owner of the house, he's a cop. Owns a German Shepherd. Owns a German Shepherd, he does. He obviously was in and out of his house constantly after John O'Keefe died,

and was taken from his front lawn. And it took three weeks to find any sort of tail light. Brian Albert never saw one piece of tail light in his front lawn that entire time. Maybe he wasn't going and looking for tail light. If Albert never saw one piece of tail light in his front lawn that entire time. Maybe he wasn't going and looking for tail light. If someone died on your front lawn, you wouldn't be like, let me go out here and like look at this.

I understand all that and again, we can pick it apart and we can come up with all these theories and I recognize there was bad police work and there was crooked cops that needed to be fired and things like that. None of that proves why these group of people, like why did they kill him? What's the motive?

It's just like, it's hard to believe that like randomly a group of friends decided to kill their friend and they decided to do it by leaving them on the coal. It's coal. It's far more believable. It's far more believable. What is sad is that John and people never get like any sort of justice.

It's far more believable that a woman who has a history of being a little toxic and a little reactive when she's drinking, who was fighting with said boyfriend earlier that day and wanted to break up with, he wanted to break up with her, that two drunk people got in a fight and she had a reactive moment

and accidentally hit him unintentionally that ultimately caused his death and then she tried to cover it up from there. And I believe that she's- She tried to cover it up? I actually believe if she did it, she should be charged with murder too because that means all those alleged phone calls

and it was all her like knowing what she did but trying to cover her tracks. You can't say that she's so drunk that she hit him and didn't know but then also was so drunk that she like moved to mastermind and cover it all up. I think she's convinced herself she didn't do it. I think she did it and I think she's moved to mastermind and cover it all up. If either one or the other. I think she convinced herself she didn't do it.

I think she did it, and I think she's convinced herself she didn't do it. I was like, there's more movies based on a true story of people corroborating together to create a crime and cover it up, and none of those people are gonna go on there and be like, you know what, I actually got in a fight with John O'Keefe

two months before this happened, and I told him to go fuck himself. They're not gonna say that getting on a stand, so of course you're not gonna know how they actually felt about this person. So these entire group of people that allegedly conspired to kill John O'Keefe, as they've looked into their backgrounds.

What if they didn't conspire? What if just shit went awry that night and then they all had to make a pact to be like, okay. That's called a conspiracy. But what I'm saying is they didn't call him over to murder him. There wasn't a conspire. There was an accident.

They conspired to cover up his killing. Yeah. What if his dog attacked them? And when they looked into all those people, the only thing they found was that Karen Reed was having like the beginnings of an affair with one of those cops that she initiated. And again, it makes way more sense when they drove over to that house

that she didn't wanna go in that house. And that's probably what started the fight. But then what about the Jen McCabe thing and calling and her being on the voicemail calling her sister saying somebody's coming. That's weird and I don't know. And again, that doesn't mean they killed her. Why is she giving her sister a heads up that now police and ambulance are coming to her

house? Listen, I clearly don't know what happened and it's like the state has not proved how it's gone by. I mean the state can't even say for sure that this was a murder, like the autopsy. Again, I don't think they've done their job to prove. So then how can you say that if a medical examiner can't? If you're asking my gut opinion. There he is.

Sorry, he has a doctorate in an homicide. You disagree with Vick, you're wrong. Literally, what do you make of the medical examiner who's like this was not a homicide? All I'm saying, it's way more believable that she had something to do with it than these other people. That's what I'm saying.

But a medical examiner doesn't agree with you. No, a medical examiner is saying that, she can't say that this was definitely a homicide versus an accident, or she can't even say exactly how he died. She said that he was not hit by that car. Well, what do you make of his DNA, his DNA being on her car? Honey, they were together for two years.

Like, let's search your car for my DNA. And what they tried to say, there was like a hair that was on it and it was just like a hair blowing through the wind. Through a snow melting off of a car. But we can't plant evidence as cops cause that would be crazy. But yes, this five foot six girl.

I understand there are crooked cops out there and I imagine the people of this town, Boston, is it, I imagine the Free Karen Reed movement has a lot to do with the pent up rage that they have that were, a lot of like civilians have been victimized by crooked cops, I understand all that. But I'm just saying, when you look at the versions of events and you look at the stories,

the story that she had something to do with it is just so much more believable than the other one. I would agree with you if they searched that house that night. But the fact that they didn't, because he's a higher up in the police department, says to me that it was like, nope, everything's fine here. You would never-

That's a huge leap of- If there was a dead body in front of my house, there's no way that I could tell cops, you can't come in and look. They're going to get a warrant. They're going to go in. They never attempted to go into that house. I understand that the fact that he was a cop

and that other cops were investigating him, they probably didn't. Nick, it's outside of the cops thing. I have a question. I agree with you. There was not proper police work, and as a result, she should be acquitted. I don't think they've done their job

to prove that she did it. I have a question. But I still think she probably did. His best friend is convinced it's her. Well, then that must be true. I just think he's the one. The best friend. The best friend.

The accountant. Yes, of course. All right, all right. Just clear, you guys have a bunch of theories that don't prove her innocence. You just have gut feelings. Do you have a theory that doesn't prove that she's guilty? I'm not saying she definitely did it. I'm saying her version is less believable than theirs.

To you. Yes, this is my opinion. Not to me. I have a question. But I don't have to agree. And I don't. That's not what I'm saying. You're saying you know she's innocent.

I'm not saying I know she's innocent, but I think she's more so innocent than she is. Okay, I'm sorry, my love. What if in that house there was a baseball bat and there was blood on the ground? Yeah, it's possible. And it would make sense for the- What if there's a vampire in there that did it?

No, seriously, and it would make sense that that's why the skull fracture, that he was hit by something. Yeah. And then there's blood on the ground from, and since they didn't search that house, they got rid of that baseball bat and they cleaned up that blood.

Yeah, that's definitely possible. Possible that anyone of those people did it. It's possible that he hit himself with a baseball bat. So it's also possible that Karen Reed didn't do it. Yeah, of course. Absolutely possible. Case closed. Tom Schwartz is here, everybody. KWINS! You know how much we love KWINS because we have been wearing KWINS for, well, some time now,

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Nothing much, man. It's great to see you. Good to see you too. I love your studio. I built such a beautiful studio in my place. I'm so proud of it and I never use it now. Why not? Because I just like, I like being on the go. I like being on location when studio in my place. I'm so proud of it and I never use it now. Why not? Because I just like being on the go.

I like being on location when I do my episodes. Where do you go? I just got back from Miami. You were recording in Miami? Yeah, I was recording in, I did a little impromptu. First of all, I love Miami, I love Florida. I went to Florida State, go NOLS. You're a Seminole.

Yeah, I'm a Seminole through and through, but I love Miami and I have a lot of friends there that I haven't seen in a long time Also, I thought it'd be fun to do a little impromptu Winterhouse reunion. I was chilling with Katie Floody Brian Benny. Do you know these people Sierra? Oh, they were on winterhouse and Brian Benny was the star of family karma, which was I think one of the great shows on Bravo I hope they're back. Yeah family karma. What was that about? It was about this family It was just about the family.

So the thing I loved about it was like, well, the deep connections is very heartfelt, but it's like you saw the deep connections through different generations. It's like a whole family and all the drama that happens. Did it make you really sad to be at Summer House and to see everyone so family oriented? Whoa, you cut deep with that one.

Sorry. That was such a raw moment. I remember I was just watching them and it's almost like I took a moment outside of my body. I think I, and I was just like, wow, I used to have this. We used to have this. Like we were really, I know we were always highly dysfunctional,

but we were such a loving family. We spent so much time together. Even when the cameras stopped rolling, we didn't go home. We never looked at his call times. Like we hung out a lot, we never looked at his call times, like we hung out a lot, probably too much. We were truly, we were our LA families, yeah. It was kind of a sad moment in your parents' summer house

when you brought that up and you were like, now we all hate each other. How true was that statement? Or were you just being? There might've been a little hyperbole. We don't hate each other, You know me, I love everybody. But there is a little dysfunction going on, a little disconnect.

Yeah, it just feels disjointed. Are we finding out who our real friends are? It's different for me. I think I know. I still love everybody. I have my rose colored lenses on. They're implants. She sees no wrong. They're implants.

Well Tom. Dr. Miami. Well when we were booking Tom for this week, Tom randomly sends me a picture poolside. Over in Miami? Yeah. To which I replied, Mondrian? And Tom was like, how did you know?

Uncanny. And it was a bit of a callback. I don't know if you realize this, but like that pool, you could argue. I'm a big, I'm at the stage of my life where I'm being a little reflective of things. And I definitely believe in like the butterfly effect. And there's just moments in your life

that you look back and go, wow, that was kind of pivotal. I didn't realize it then. But that pool, that hotel, pivotal in my life. I don't think we're all sitting here today if I don't go to that hotel. Yeah. Yeah. I talked about this on my episode a little bit,

but it's also steeped in Vanderpump rules, Laura. Really? Think season three stuff. Okay, oh. Miami girl? It was the first time we ever did- Miami girl. Maybe. It was the first time we ever did. Miami girl.

Maybe, maybe not. It was the first time, that's the first time in my life at that pool in that moment in time, I think 2014, that I ever felt actually famous. Really? I never think of myself as famous. I gotta be careful here.

I don't, I'm not like, I have no, I have minimal ego. You have two bars with your name on it. True. Two shade hick. Okay. I took the narcissist test and I got like a three. I don't think you're a narcissist. Oh, okay. But yeah, that pool, I was a model for a hot second following my second stint in vaccination.

Can you find some photos, Justin? By the way, I didn't get the reference. Thank you for context now. I thought you were just making it. Obviously, you're a beautiful man. I didn't think you couldn't be a model. I just didn't know you ever did model. I thought you were just making a, obviously you're a beautiful man. I didn't think you couldn't be a model. I just didn't know you ever did model. I know you acted.

Briefly, usually it, go ahead. Well, it was after following my second stint on reality TV. I was roaming the streets of Chicago. The first time I went back to work right away. The second time I was like, I gotta let this play out. And I went to go visit some of my friends at Salesforce. And I was walking outside of Salesforce

and this lovely woman named Gwen Pepper stopped me on the street and she's like, have you ever modeled before? And she worked for Wilhelmina Miami and she had just gone to Chicago because she was like scouting for like Chicago talent. Knowing, having no idea that I was ever on the Bachelorette. And anyways, Gwen Pepper signed me to Wilhelmina Miami and they sent me down where that's like Wilhelmina Miami,

I don't know if their office is still at the Mondrian but that's where they were. And they like, I pretended to be a model for a week and did some photo shoots and things like that. And then after a while I was like, I'm not good at this. But Gwen then introduced me to my first LA agent. His name was Jack. And if I don't meet Gwen, I probably just go back to work.

After the summer, I'm sure the summer would have died down. I would have been like, I got nothing going on and I would have just gone back to work. So shout out to Gwen Pepper out there. Shout out to Gwen Pepper. Shout out to Gwen Pepper. I think, yeah, I think about the butterfly effect a lot. It's like, what if I would have never met Tom Sandoval on Apartment Finders,

or roommates seeking roommates, Craigslist? Would Vanderpump Rules have, I think it still would have happened. I don't know. What if I never met Katie? Well, then it made me think knowing that you were gonna come here. I was just like, we are relatively

in the same season of life. I don't like to put a number on it because like that's calling us out. But we're in the same similar seasons of life. And we also started reality TV at a relatively similar time. And it made me wonder, I wonder if you and I sat down

and had a heart to heart, like what things we would relate to when it comes to our experience on reality TV and what things would be very different because we do come from two very different worlds like ABC, bachelor, Vanderpump, Bravo. Do we feel like this is the place to do that? I don't know. I mean, I promised Tom a relatively fun experience.

Softballs only. Well, he does have, he does have, I just don't know how deep Tom, I don't know how deep Tom wants, I don't know how reflective Tom wants to be. Well, I will say this, we had lightning in a bottle with our show. It's like how many people get to be on 10 years of national television, a hit show, with people who are actually their friends.

The cameras just kind of picked up where we were at in our lives, you know what I mean? Like I always, I say this all the time, like I think it was more dramatic after the cameras started rolling. We were a disaster before the show started and we were all hanging out every single day. That's when Kristen was living with Tom and myself

and then Kristen was best friends with Katie and also Stassi and then Jax. We all spent so much time together. It was beautifully toxic. Do you feel like the new Vanderpump just honestly doesn't really have a shot? Like in like a- Wait, Villa or-

No, no, no. See, I'm very confused by Villa versus the new Vanderpump. Are they calling it Vanderpump? Yep. They are. It's Vanderpump Rules. They're calling it Vanderpump Rules. As far as I know, um, it is called Vanderpump Rules 2.0.

Not formally. 2.0. What? Yeah. Um, yeah, I'm, I'm gonna watch it. No, of course we'll all watch. Yeah, I'm gonna watch it. No, of course, well, I'll watch it, but I'm just curious, like-

But how, you can't be rooting for them. You can't be rooting for them. You can't be rooting for them. Well, how could I? I know the TomSports answer is like, of course, everyone wants to be happy. I love everybody. And I love everybody, but like deep down, we don't.

I don't think lightning can strike twice in the same spot. And especially in 2025, because like you guys were authentic. You really were like truly dysfunctional. That's why Vanderpump Villa, I don't think is quite landing because you have a bunch of like wannabe yous. And I think- You crying? No, the sweater is surprisingly hot.

You're hot? Yeah. Do you have something under it? No Oh, do you hate so frequently sweaty during interviews? Looks like i'm coming down off a bender or something I slept eight hours. I was in bed at 8 pm last night. Are we are we are we asking you harder questions? No, not at all. Um I've watched the first half of vanderpump villa season, and I think it's significantly better than the first season. I think they got some chemistry. I'm digging it.

I'm invested. But yeah, like we, I mean, we had deep rooted friendships. Tom and Jax had known each other long before the show ever started in Miami, where they both modeled together. You guys probably crossed paths. Maybe. Oh my God. Y'all probably were going out for the same job.

I was a model for, I barely, I don't even think I booked a gig In a parallel universe. I just signed an eight-figure contract for my podcast and you are just coming off Vanderpump rules with Jackson Tom No, I don't think so because I would have been like guys I'm we I love you but we're very different no We are I know I would love to watch would you guys ever consider doing a reality show? I would not. Oh, okay. This kind of is tough. Listen, you need drama for a reality TV show.

And Nick and I are in a place in our relationship where like we just. We do wanna protect our peace and our daughter. And I say this about like, for example, The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives is about to debut. They give, you guys gave. You really, I mean, like I don't think, for all the commentary and snark and

criticisms and critiques that we have, I guess even for Jack Sparrow, it's like for us to enjoy it, it requires people like you and even people like Jack to just be whoever they want to be. Whether that's a dysfunctional, mentally unwell person, who is maybe an emotional terrorist to his family, or someone as lovable as you. Oh, sorry. Whoa. What do you know that I don't?

I was like, I was like. But you guys truly are willing to be your truest selves. And we like to share bits and pieces of our life, but no, I do not feel compelled to be like, you know what, I owe my audience a front row seat at everything that goes on in my life. At our dinner table. That was the unspoken rule.

It was in the contract. It wasn't written out verbatim, but yeah, once we signed that contract, it was like all the filters are off, nothing is sacred. And we fully committed to the bill. Can I ask you a question that's been asked of me to sign that contract. It was like all the filters are off, nothing is sacred. And we fully committed to the building. Can I ask you a question that's been asked of me that in this full disclosure, when I was asked this question, I would roll my eyes

and be like, no, absolutely not. But like oftentimes, but this is where I wonder if like the world that we were, worlds that we were part of, how different they were. When it came to people like, I was often, I was the villain a couple of times. And so people would come came to people, like, I was often, I was the villain a couple times, and so people would come up to me and ask if I, like, basically leaned into my quote unquote bad behavior

of, like, interrupting dates or whatever and things like that. And I was like, no, I definitely didn't ever, I never wanted to be the villain. Like, I never chose to be the villain, never wanted to be the villain. I actively tried not to be the villain. And so when I found out I was the villain,

it was even harder to accept because, like, I tried to be likable. Those are the best villains, by the villain, never wanted to be the villain. I actively tried not to be the villain. And so when I found out I was the villain, it was even harder to accept because I tried to be likable. Those are the best villains, by the way, the villains who don't think they're a villain. Everybody knows that. But with Bravo, my question to you is, it sometimes feels like, is bad behavior sometimes performative or are people rewarded for bad behavior,

a la Jax Taylor, or like you were on the Summer House, we're currently covering Summer House, and like certainly different than maybe some of the stuff going on in Jax's world, and it's a little heavier, and things like that, but right now we have Jesse Salomon in Lexi's relationship, and he's kinda like leaning into like I'm the fuck boy, I'm undateable, and like you know, Lexi even said when we interviewed her

that he stated out loud that he was almost envious of the criticisms that Wes got in his breakup with Ciara last season that he almost like was like, oh, well, I guess if that's how you get famous, I'll just lean into being the fuck boy. And just from your perspective, have you seen people in Bravo World try to be the villains

and like, is some of their bad behavior performative? I don't need you to call it any names if you're comfortable answering this question. It's a great question. And yeah, I mean, with a lot of different shows, you know, a lot of shows are soft scripted. I never had one moment in the history of Vanderpump Rules where I felt like they tried to put words in my mouth

or stovepipe me. Isn't that the industry term, stovepiping? I've never heard of stovepiping Stove piping is where essentially like a director will come in and be like, hey, you know what? I like what you're doing here, but why don't you try this and say it like this? I never experienced that once. They would have to gently guide me because we would go on tangents and start talking about stuff that's not interesting off-subject, off-theme. But in our world, we fortunately never really had to do that. Of course, I've had a few

moments that felt performative I prefer not to say which ones There's one in particular Yeah There's only one moment I ever truly felt like I just felt like I didn't feel like I there was no hand of God or voice of God and No one forced me to do it. I will say sometimes it does feel good to confess and just get it out Just that there was a kiss one time. I mean, when- I will say sometimes it does feel good to confess and just get it out. It does.

Just that, there was a kiss one time in Mexico. That's all I'll say. That was the only truly contrived moment I think in my whole journey on that show. Sheena. No. Raquel. Yeah.

I felt that, honestly. You should get that out. Can I get that out? You don't want that. Get it out. It's not a dig at Raquel. She's lovely and beautiful. It's nothing to do with her.

I'm just saying, I just, it just, oh, I felt so icky after that. Do you feel a weight lifted off of your shoulders? I'm torn. Cause that was my family. And like, not just on camera, but behind the scenes, off camera. Like we were together in the trenches for 10, 11 years.

And during that time, we really forged a deep bond. So it's kind of sad, not that I'll be done with reality TV forever, but... Now you're doing like the rounds. You're like the designated hitter. You're getting like a train run on you. It's like kind of gross. Also like, I love it. I love it.

Listen, I love Bravo. I don't care, I'll be a brown nose. So anytime they ask me to do a show, I'm like, hell yeah. Why not? I love Bravo. You should do special forces. I don't think I can do it. Nick is- No, he totally would.

Are you sitting on the grit? Did you just call me yellow? I don't care if you have what it takes. I just don't think you have any desire. And this is a compliment. Like maybe this comes from, I need sometimes to prove things to myself. I don't feel like you have that,

I don't think you have that need. I think that's a compliment. Yeah, there's a level of security that maybe you have that I don't. There's layers to that compliment. First, I'll just say thank you. I think pre-Schwartz and Sandys, Tom, he was lacking grit, chutzpah, discipline.

Post-Schwartz and Sandys, Tom could do it. I think you could. I don't know if I would say yes. I'm not putting it out there in the universe. You gotta be careful. I just did this whole episode on quantum healing, where it's all about the interconnectedness of your mind and your body, how you think, what you feel,

how it affects, you know, your physical health. What did you learn? I'm still processing it. By the way, this happened last week. Shout out to Jaclyn Francis, you guys. She's a quantum healer, spiritual advisor, and she came over. Have you ever done anything like this?

No. By the way, I'm a healthy critic too. No. But when you say quantum healer, I feel healed. No, and yes, and I think there should be a good amount of healthy criticism, you know? It's not something you wanna replace going to the doctor with, but I think it's nice

to have, adjacently, with your Western medicine. I definitely believe, I'm not like a Western medicine till I die, I think Western medicine's all about just taking another pill. I definitely don't subscribe to that. I think Western medicine is all about just taking another pill. I definitely don't subscribe to that. I think there's a balance there. I don't know if I'm all the way far with spiritual quantum, spiritual healers, but like a cult. Well, you're a cerebral guy. You're also very heartfelt. You're capable of very deep emotions.

You're a father. Yeah, you have a lot of depth of character. I'd love to hear your input on it after you do a session. I cried like seven times. I don't really know what our, it was surprisingly intimate. It was very cathartic, honestly moving and it was something special. I felt very- Did you see her boobs?

Like I feel like this is worth covering. I was having a moment, Natalie. And then she gave me the craziest blow job. Great hits. No, Jaclyn, sorry. Sorry, Jaclyn. I don't Great hits. No, Jaclyn, sorry. Sorry, Jaclyn. I don't mean that. Sorry, Jaclyn, I don't.

I had such a really magical moment. And then I went, we had tickets to the game with one of my dear friends, the Dodgers game. I went to Dodgers Stadium and I was just having, I had an after glow. If you guys have ever done like acid or mushrooms, you have an after glow. I felt like especially entombed with myself in the universe

and I threw down 150 bucks on the 50-50. I play it every time. You guys know what that is? Yeah, the 50-50 raffle. I ended up hitting the 50-50 that day for like 35K. Oh my God, you're rich. And something about that, just like the time. You're winning 35K.

You're rich. You get 50% of it. And I split my 50% with my dear friend, who I'll keep his privacy. He's very private. OK. But yeah, so it just, I don't know. Do you have it on you?

It should be here in a few weeks. Okay, perfect. But it went to the Dodger game and just randomly won $15,000. I got quantum healed and then I hit the Dodger's 50-50. So after your next session, invite me. That's kind of bullshit for like, the famous guy goes to a Dodger game

and he wins the 50-50. You're not the person who's supposed to win that. I know. I play it every time in my defense. I've probably contributed at least $6,000 to the 50-50. Wow. So maybe I'm breaking even. How was your appearance on Summer House?

We enjoyed watching you. I've been friends with those guys a long time. You started Summer House in a way. Well, in a way, yeah. Actually, you were there. You weren't even there. Stassi was there, Stassi and Katie were there. Which I think was an iconic episode with Kyle

in the hot tub and everything, if you guys remember that far back. Yeah, Summer House is so good this year, by the way. Which is a weird thing to say because I hang out there with my friends. I almost feel, I don't know, I feel like it's, sometimes I feel like it's a violation when I'm watching my friends on a TV show.

Does this make sense? It feels like something I shouldn't be watching. I hang out with them on a regular basis You know obviously on the show we watch and we we critique and and pick apart like we like like sports fans do their favorite Teams, you know, like I met Sierra when she came on the show a while back, really enjoyed her company. I'm pretty sure Sierra fucking hates me right now. Why? Because like when it comes to the character I've watched on TV, I just definitely does not team Sierra.

Oh, you've been a critic, an outspoken critic? Yeah. I haven't seen the clips. I see you. You said it out loud. I feel like this season she's done nothing but prove me right. Sierra, I love you for listening.

I love her too. You've been a stan of Sierra. After watching this past season, like Sierra is like, honestly in the game of life or the game of reality TV, whatever you want, like doing NFL drafts recently, so putting in those contacts, she's a number one pick. She has everything going for her.

Looks, brains, she's a supermodel. She also has like this honorable other job as a nurse. She has everything. She can get in any room in any world, have any guy that she wants. And then like what's her dating history? Austin? West, Austin.

Who else? Who's next, Tom Schwartz? Just kidding. Are you submitting yourself? I mean, so you're just telling, like if Sierra's out there and if, I don't know for sure, maybe she's not, maybe this is all for TV, but she projects on TV that she is frustrated with her dating life.

And you're telling me that her problems in her dating life, if from her frustrations, do you think it's more based off of dumb luck and bad men or maybe her choices? Yeah, her choices to give men that don't deserve a chance a chance, yeah. I mean, her sitting there and telling- That's a choice. I know a little bit about that.

Her sitting there and telling Lexi, he's punching way above his weight, is like, I wanted her to shake herself and be like, so have you. What was the quote that she just recently gave when asked if she wants Lexi to return, who we met and I just found to be delightful. Yeah, Lexi's lovely.

She said, if Lexi's here next year, great, but if she's not, see ya, I'll never have to see her again. I'm used to people coming in and out and not staying. I just don't care, honestly. I'm just curious as to why, what did Lexi do to these women? We're not giving girls, girl. I'm like, they were fine in this last episode. do to these women? Like, it's not giving girls girl. I'm like, they were fine in this last episode.

She was sitting there drinking a martini in the room chatting. They were definitely looks of like. Just cause you work with someone doesn't mean you have to be best friends. That's, I understand. But like they preach pro girl. Who does?

Sierra and. Not really. You're right, Sierra doesn't really preach it. I think Paige, Amanda and Sierra are like three peas in a pod. They've been very outspoken about like not always being close with Lindsay, not always being close with Danielle, not all, you know, like. I feel like Sierra makes choices based off of her ego and she makes choices based off of short-term validation.

And like, again, she's just fucking with guys who are in seasons of life that are just kind of beneath her. And at some point it's like on her guys who are in seasons of life that are just kind of beneath her and at some point It's like on her. I love those guys though guys What's wait what's what's what's that workplace Proximity clause there's something the study they did or it's like you're more likely to hook up with someone you see on a regular basis Significantly, I think there's something to do with proximity. Honestly, if Sierra was like, hey listen,

that was all for TV, and I would normally not fuck with any of these guys, but whatever, a job's a job, I would be like totally believable. But if I'm just taking her actions at face value from what I'm seeing on TV, like she just makes choices that like make no sense for someone who could literally have it all. And she could date anyone she wanted to. She could get into any room.

And she's always fucking with men who just like, the only thing they have in common is the fact that they're willing to say no to her, mostly based off the fact that they just want to say yes to every hookup opportunity that comes their way. And she wants to be the person that these guys who want to just play fuck. And she wants to be the person that these guys who wanna just play fuckboy, she wants to be the person who they're willing to give that all up for her.

I think if Sierra was like, Jesse, I wanna date you, he would drop everything in a second. I mean him in the bed, when he was like, do you think that that's what she's doing? I'm not so sure. Really? I'm not so sure. I think he likes the idea.

Why is she even, like her actions online right now are giving that she is leaning into the Jesse of it all. Like why? Why is she even bothering with that narrative? Why is she fucking with that? You know what I'm saying? He's pretty charming in person, I gotta say. I'm sure he is.

Yeah, I'm sure he is. I just spent some time with him in New York. I'm like, they're also on a TV show. I'm sure he is. And we're talking about it. So I'm like, if they weren't taking the photos together, what headlines do we have? And if she's doing it for the job,

I respect it, I get it, but if this is who she is, question her dating decisions. This is where I should chime in to dish them dirt, but it was like, I was kind of a shell of myself when I went and did Summer House, not to make it about me. I thought it was so relatable when you're like, laying in bed after bed fuss or sleep fast and you were just like,

all right, like I've done enough, I miss my dogs. Like we all sing songs ready to go home. That came from the heart, that was raw. No, that was the very, very last moment. And again, you guys, I don't want to sing the Schwartz and Sandy sad song, it's over. I made peace with that. But that was the last moment where I had the realization

that it's, we're closing and there's nothing I could do to stop it. And I was gonna lose altogether maybe a million dollars. Like, you know, not just me, but like that was a million dollar business. Yeah. Remember when we came to your last night closing? Yeah, that was really sweet and unexpected. We did, we surprised shorty.

How are you feeling about your salt and pepper hair? Wait, is it gray? What? I usually dye the sides a little bit. It's a little, but. How are you feeling about your salt and pepper hair? Wait, is it gray? What? I usually dye the sides a little bit. It's a little, but like it's kind of giving. Yeah, you dig it. Kinda. You look hot.

How do you feel? I feel okay with it. I've decided that I'm not gonna go gray or embrace the gray until I have at least one kid and more wisdom. Smart. Do you wanna talk about fatherhood? You talked a lot about it on Summer House.

It's like, it's my biggest insecurity in life. The fact that I'm 42 and I don't have a family, I'm okay. You're only 42. I just, thank you. I have a woman who wants to have a child, if you want to have a child as well. Can I ask you a somewhat heavy question? Sure. What are you willing to give up to be a dad?

About your current lifestyle? I think... If anything? Anything and everything for my family. But I'm not the same person I was before the pandemic. What do you mean by that? I've evolved. I might not show. And maybe it's not a dramatic evolution.

I just don't go out nearly as much anymore. I'm not like going on vendors, coming home at like six in the morning. I'm easy I don't like shut down when faced with harsh criticism. I'm willing to have deep meaningful conversations I'm very loving understanding. You're willing to be an active service kind of man. Yeah, I Have found in adult life. I think there's exceptions every rule But I think for most people if you're a high-functioning person you really only have the bandwidth to I think for most people, if you're a high functioning person, you really only have the bandwidth to prioritize two things in your life and be great at them.

Like a job, a career, and like your family. Or like, or it could be a job and your friends, you know? You know, or it could be like your family and your friends. And then you could be like, okay, your job, you know? I just feel like as people, like we can't really be exceptional. You have to figure out, all right, which one do I want? I want people, like we can't really be exceptional, you have to figure out, all right, which one do I want?

Do I want to be a great dad? Or do I want to be like, you know, the best, best friend of all time? Or do I want to be great at my job? Or do I want to be a great, you know, sometimes we have to make choices. I have found that like, I choose the tops for me. I can either, I can focus on my career,

I can focus on my family, but I don't have time for anything else. Jack of all trades, master of none, that's the path I've chosen. I'm just gonna be pretty good at everything, but not great at anything. But what would you rather be great at? Well, I know I will be a great father.

I can say that with 100%. Yeah, are you dating the last time you were here? I'm not currently dating anyone. But no, it's okay. And so can I unfollow her on Instagram? No, I love her. I have the utmost love and respect for her I could go on for literally 20 minutes right now about how much I love Especially no hate no hate no hate no hate especially Sophia. She's amazing. No, I liked her too She's like one of my favorite human beings of all time truly

Well, I mean, You don't have to talk about it. I mean, listen, she ran the gauntlet early on. Like I was going through it. And let's just say I didn't have the best reputation online. And she's not someone who really gives a shit what people say online. She's fiercely independent and has such like a strong sense of self.

But I did see her constantly getting relegated to Tom Schwartz's girlfriend. I don't know, it's just a lot of little things happen, such like a strong sense of self. But I did see her constantly getting relegated to Tom Schwartz's girlfriend. I don't know, it's just a lot of little things happen, but we're cool. Is that how you felt for a while? Oh, for sure. Really?

Yeah. That's interesting. I think it's definitely just, I mean, like, when you don't have like a name for yourself and you are in a relationship with someone who does, that is what, I mean, I'm still referred to as like Nick Viall's wife. Not for long.

Which is fine, I love being Nick Viall's wife, but like I do remember a certain point at which I was like, I am more than that. Someday I'll be Natalie Joy's husband. Period. That's beautiful. It'll be sooner than later, I think. Yeah, but no, she's just-

I'll be taking the pictures and holding, I am already holding the bags. Listen, I wanna stay on topic here, but by the way, I saw, I've been living vicariously through, is your lake house in Wisconsin? Yes. See, I'm doing like a bootleg version of what you're doing.

Instead of a lake, I have a pond. I'm also building a house right now from my, no, in Florida. And there's probably alligators in there, but it's beautiful. It's got those lily blossoms on there and everything. And it's, I just, I'm building like a little tiny shack. It's like 1500 square feet.

Yeah, for the fam. Let's talk about your podcast. Oh, we don't have to, but yeah. You started one. This is fun. I did and I love it. It's been so fulfilling. I don't know if you guys know, I'm obsessed with podcasts.

I probably listened to 40 in my rotation. Is one of them. Yeah. Well, I usually consume yours on on Instagram with clicks. Yeah, so you don't listen to it. So I Find I'm sure it's like triggering for no, it's not I love your podcasts Actually, you guys are crushing it and you have such great guests But I watch it on clips on Instagram. Is that okay? okay? I don't listen to the whole episodes all the way through. Listen, I mean, we'll take what we can get. Yes, we'll take what we can get. Yeah.

Not the same. Shavings make a pile. Shavings do make a pile. I don't know if that's- Pennies make a dollar. What's your show about, Tom? So, okay, my show is called Detox Retox, and it's an exploration, a dance,

between indulgence and moderation. For most of my life, I've been known to overindulge and I've just been turning things around lately. I'm looking to level up spiritually, mentally, physically and I've been doing that. I've been putting in the work and this is just the beginning, you guys.

I'm not- And you do it on your podcast. Yeah, I'm not a new guru. So people can watch or listen to you, like have a. Yeah, codename, yeah, the reeducation of Tom Schwartz. I feel like the past 10 years, my brain has just turned to mush. I've had some of the best experiences of my life.

I've rich with experience. I've had such a unique adventure, but I just feel like I haven't been yet tending to the garden of the mind. It's just feeling a little dusty up there. So this is the beginning of a new chapter for me. They're wilted. They're not dead. They just need a little TLC. Do you still have plants all in your house?

I do. Yeah. Yeah. But I'm really excited. It's been so fulfilling so far. Yeah, I just did an episode with Katie Floody and Brian Benny, who are on Winter House with me in Miami. My first traveling episode was really fun. And little did I know, I was on your old stomping grounds. Wait, you had to travel with all your mics and your wires and all that stuff?

Yeah, it's just me. It's kind of scary, because I guess I'm the writer, director, producer, the booker, and if it bombs, I have no one else I can blame. One man show. Is Sandoval still doing his podcast? Everyone hates Tom Sandoval?

Yeah, everyone, yeah. Or everyone loves Tom Sandoval? Oh, loves, Yeah. Yeah, I'm loves Tom Sandoval. Oh loves loves It was love everyone loves. Yeah, yell El t yeah, he's still doing it. Okay. Yeah, I have no longer doing with I'm not doing it with them How are you two doing? We're cool. I just haven't seen him as much lately Yeah, yeah Tom's madly everybody madly in love. Yeah, so love, yeah. So they're kind of attached at the hip. I don't see him that much, but I love him.

No, no, no, I mean in a good way. No, I wish that I could be attached to Nick's hip, but he won't let me, so. Do you think they'll get married? I do. I do think they'll get married. Do you think you'll be the best man? I don't know.

Whoa, that's a good question. Who would be the best man? Tom is still one of my dearest friends, obviously. There's a lot of things that happened that put a lot of strain on our friendship, but at the end of the day, I still love him. He's still family. I mean, sure, but a strain,

but that strain came from you having his back with unquestioning loyalty and support at your demise. I have healthy boundaries, and our names aren't on the side of a business that people love to chastise, maybe rightfully so anymore. But I have my peace, I have my boundaries now, and any sort of lingering resentment with Sandoval,

it's like compartmentalized. I have a hard time with that word too. Compartmentalized, yeah. It's tucked away. It's on a shelf. It's gone but not forgotten. What other reality TV shows are you watching? I just finished watching, it's on Netflix,

I think it's called Boot Camp? Battle Camp. Battle Camp. Battle, I'm enamored. We had the host Taylor Luan on last week. It was awesome, I know, I saw, and I loved that show. I thought the cast had really. You saw the clip.

No, that's okay, damn it. It's like, yeah, no, I know. I thought the cast had really good chemistry. I'd like to see more seasons of the same cast, but it was like a little fear factor meets like, I miss fear factor, but seeing them eat like the tarantulas, did you guys watch the whole season? There's no amount of money I would eat that for us.

Not even 250K. Unless it was like, we're gonna give you- That's because you're rich. No, I'm not. That's because you won the 50-50. Yeah. You don't need to eat tarantulas. And I say this with love,

has anyone ever described you as like a real life Kramer? I've got a real, a modern hippie. People have described me as a modern hippie, like the dude from the Big Lebowski adjacent. And again, you are obviously a hard worker and all those things, but on TV, your character was one of like, who just like shows up and just falls into money and opportunities

and he's just like on TV for a decade. He never really ever had a job. I did though. And like. He was a model. But before that I went to college, I worked in corporate, I worked for a distributor, like I have good work.

That wasn't your storyline, you know. Didn't you go to college for like med school or didn't you go to med school or something? Kind of. Or applied to? I mean they don't have like a pre-med program at Florida State. At least they used to not have it. So you just kind of do everything you have to do.

You choose a science, exercise physiology, biology. And you have one of the best vocabularies on the cast. Now all these guys. You had a word of the day calendar didn't you? Big words do not equate to big intelligence. I'll just say that. Well, Bachelor Nation is going to start releasing everyone's audition tapes.

That's so good. First of all, I know Nyx is gonna be no beard. He's gonna be wearing a scarf. I will have what most people perceive as bad fashion. Are you okay? You're fogging up. I'm sweaty. Do you want ice water?

Take your shirt off. Wait, I have an undershirt. Do we have a woody shirt? I'm sure we have a t-shirt here. T-shirt for? I got shamed at the pool in Miami. They're like, you are the pastiest human being I've ever seen in my life.

Someone told me that. Who said this to you? Didn't you all used to do a lot of tanning beds and stuff? Why'd you stop? I don't... Why am I always sweaty? Can we get Tom Schwartz a t-shirt or a tank top, please? I think all we have is smalls.

I went to the Valley premiere and I saw some of my interviews on the red carpet. I'm like, I was sweating profusely. They're like, what kind of drugs do you run? Do you run hot? I'm not on any drugs. Do you run hot? I do.

You do? Yeah. In my defense, I did an hour of cardio before I came here. What time did you wake up? I woke up at like six. This is a man who's like really making moves. Like this is adult Tom. I feel like honestly you could have a baby.

It took me 42 years, but I am adult Tom. Shug and him could have a baby together. She wants a baby. Your glasses do fog up every so often and I can't see your eyeballs. I know. Sometimes I feel like, why are you that hot? Why are your glasses fogging up?

I can't help it. Is it that hot in here? I run hot. Do you need a moment? You're acting like I've been like, so did Tom cheat on me? You've been so easy on me. You know what, I think it's like a Pavlonian thing. Just coming in here, I start sweating,

you know what I mean? Yeah. Just like, when we did that interview, what was going on in your head when Tom first appeared? Well, in hindsight, I think it's borderline iconic. Yeah. Not borderline.

I don't think I'll ever top it in terms of like just like real time craziness. Like the call, the like where are you, the like. The tiger photo. The tiger photo. You were in the, I wouldn't cheat that way. You were gobsmacked or just like, Paul's the wrong word.

You were just, I think, I was watching you watch him and you were just in disbelief. And I don't know, but as I've gotten older, I'm more empathetic and compassionate, and there's no excuse for being that late, but the fact that he was up all night, morning, the loss of his friend and all the stuff he had compartmentalized.

I feel like I've become a Sandoval apologist almost because I see the good in him. He's a flawed human with obviously a lot of qualities that are easy to criticize, and I think he has a different moral compass than say the average person, but he is not without redeeming characteristics. Don't y'all think it's crazy that Nick is like

Team Sandoval but not Team Sierra? I'm not Team Sandoval. I just, like, no. Like you were able to make excuses for Sandoval, but not Sierra. Isn't that crazy? I'm not Team Sandoval. I just, like no. Like you were able to make excuses for Sandoval but not Sierra. It's not that, it's not that. You guys know me, I'm a bit of a devil's advocate, but I just like, you go online,

it's like Sierra can do no wrong. And there's like this is blind loyalty towards Sierra because she, again, of all her amazing qualities of which she has. You're mad at the fans. Not mad at the fans. I'm just willing to point out flaws in her decisions, the same way the entire internet is obsessed

with pointing out Toms. But I'm also willing to point out that Tom Sandoval has some good qualities that everyone likes to pretend don't exist. It's all binary to like reality TV fans. You're either totally good or totally evil. I'm more nuanced. And I think Sierra is a wonderful person,

but I think she makes choices that are like to her detriment and then she goes around blaming others for some of her choices. And then the internet rallies behind her because she's a queen and she can do no wrong. And I think she can do wrong and often does. You're gonna get cancer. It's a hot take.

I'll live. Yeah, it won't be the first time the internet's mad at me. Sierra, I love you. If you're out there, I'd love're wrong. And often does. You're gonna get cancer. It's a hot take. I'll live. Yeah, it won't be the first time the internet's mad at me. Ciara, I love you. If you're out there, I'd love for you to come on the show. No, you never will again. He needs you. She never will again.

Amanda will never. Paige will never. What did I say about Paige? Oh, I am so sorry that I had like, yeah, a little bit of empathy towards Craig. I don't think Paige is that petty. I think Paige gets it. I think Paige is that petty. I think Paige gets it. I think Paige is a pro.

I could be wrong. I mean, if I were Paige, I wouldn't. To your wife's point. Like, I just wouldn't go and like hang out with the people who supported my ex. Well, by support, what do you mean? Support. Support.

S-U-P-P-O-R-T. She did admit support. Did I study? I will say though, I did walk past Craig's store. What's it called? So in the down south. Down south. I'm really impressed.

He's crushing. I'm really impressed. I don't know where I'm getting, I don't know where she gets breadwinner. I mean, maybe it's an unsuccessful business. Okay. She's selling out Madison Square Garden. She has a commercial.

And he had an empty store in the south. She has commercial, Fila Tresemere. And he had an empty store in the south. She clearly makes more than him. His employees were watching Netflix. Why do we have to knock him down as if he's like begging for money? No, he's crushing. Craig is crushing right now.

That's not how it was explained. It was just like, hey, I'm the breadwinner. It was like kind of like he's a loser. No, she said, why would I have to move when my business and everything's in New York and I'm the breadwinner. It was kind of like he's a loser. No, she said, why would I have to move when my business and everything's in New York and I'm the breadwinner? Yeah, she'll never come on, I guess. No, never.

Absolutely not. And Amanda's a loyal friend to the two of them, so she will also never come on. But we love you. But we do. Have you guys ever went and saw Giggly Squad? They're so good. I almost did, and then I was really pissed when I missed it.

They're funny as hell. I saw them at the will turn, and I'm not kissing ass before I leave I want to have one hot take where I'm critical of someone I rebuke someone is it possible? Let me think about it Okay, how do you feel about Katie's new boyfriend? Oh, he's a lovely This is burgeoning bromance I just said what's up to Dana in the hallway, by the way. I want to say hi to Katie before I leave. What was the last time you talked shit?

1923. Guess who taught me how to talk shit? Katie? Yeah. You guys are like, ah. But it didn't stick. We're recapping as we always do on Vile Files Plus, Vanderpump, and I've yet to disagree with your ex-wife.

No, she's got, yeah, she's usually pretty on point. Her intuition's unrivaled, but she's been wrong once or twice. Maybe, I guess, but for the most part, not really. Not documented. I'll tell you that much. I'm trying to think something mean I can say about someone. No, I'm actually really excited for the new Vanderpump rules. I think the cast, they're not going to try.

So boring. Can I ask you a question? I don't know if you'll answer, but I'm going to ask. We're watching The Valley, love the show. I think you make a cameo. I pop in here and there. Yeah. What is your opinion of Jesse Lolley?

Jesse. Love the guy. Well, Jesse. So lovely. As a father and as an ex-husband, because you're an ex-husband too. Yeah the guy. Well Jesse. So lovely. As a father and as an ex-husband. Because you're an ex-husband too. Yeah, okay. So he is a complex creature. Okay.

Jesse Lally is a very complex creature. How he always handles himself with Michelle. You know, I don't condone that. But like, as a father, I have nothing good things to say about him. He loves his daughter more than anything in the world. He's truly I think even Michelle would say that right Do you think his daughter will appreciate how he treats her mother? Especially when she's old enough to maybe say watch some of this stuff back and maybe read some of the press clippings Do you think I don't think he's even proud of that. He's very self-aware.

Is he? Yeah, he is. Why am I not seeing a difference between season two and season one? I think you will, I think you will. Okay. I think Jesse Lally's, oh God. Pressing.

Is this gonna be my hot take? With the nail, I think Jesse Lally will grow on people. It might take some time. Okay. But I really do think he'll grow. Okay. Oh my God, what have I done? Are you in the boys group chat?

You know he is. It is a vile and despicable place. And here's the thing, when you try to leave, they put you back in. Can you tell me the last text that was sent in the group chat? No, it was actually pretty uplifting and loving this morning.

It was- This morning? Well, someone was going to work at like six in the morning. I won't say who they were not a party or anything, but they were on their way to work and they were driving down sunset. And there was apparently a group of like 30 people fighting outside of what's it called not to put you on the spot. Nick, what's that one strip? The iconic strip club across from across.

He's like that place we used to go to all the time across from the body shop. There was like, apparently at four in the morning, there was like five or six in the morning, there was a group of like, I didn't even know they're open all night, but apparently there was a group of like 30 people fighting outside and we were like, oh my God, does this mean LA is back?

Just having a laugh, but no one goes out. And that's an industry joke, because nobody goes out in LA anymore. So true, some sense of dead on a front end. Honestly, when it comes to your goals of fatherhood and just kind of adulting, I think maybe you need to leave the group chat. He just said he tries to leave and they'll put him back in.

Well, I tried to leave back in like 2021. You can block it. I was having a moment, I was like, this is too toxic. It just was getting too. What's the most toxic thing you saw in there? Ever? Ever. I mean, I will say this about the boys chat, it's funny.

I don't doubt it's locker room. Do you feel like it's funny to everyone, or maybe just to the guys in it? Definitely just the guys in it. Do you think it would be funny to their wives? So many cancelable offenses. You should say the most toxic thing and who sent it, because then they'll kick you out of the chat

and will not let you back in. So true, that's how you get out. That's how you get out. You're a the most toxic thing and who sent it because then they'll kick you out of the chat and will not let you back in. So true, that's how you get out. That's how you get out. You're a genius. Thank you. It's not doing you any good. No, being a part of that group chat, no I know. I mean it's a dating red flag. When we were dating and you would have saw that. I probably would have like let it slide, let it slide, let it slide and then then once we were actually very serious and I started obviously reading everything that was in it, I would definitely be like, it's time to go. No, if someone got ahold of it and read it, I'd be mortified. Did Sophia, did Sophia ever try to read it? No, she's so, no, she's not like that.

She's not nosy. But just out of curiosity. No. You were never like, look at this crazy ass shit this guy just sent. Honestly, it's just a lot of fart humor, like type of but it's like it's kind of nice and small Someone's like ex-wife is a prostitute sleeping with somebody for fifteen dollars a night. Oh, I don't think though I don't think that originated in the boys chat. That's what they said on the really yeah, cuz what?

Yeah, by the way, we were yeah. Well, let's not even go there cuz that's like if you're a billionaire and you're paying someone that Flicking a penny at someone It's the only believable lies about your ex-wife. No. Yeah Do you want to be a part of the boys chat? My god, did you ever watch guys I had a Nick vile to the boys chat Add me I'd be, you're all fucking losers. They would kick you out very fast. Grow the fuck up.

I would harass Jax. He still has to be blocked. I feel like you guys need to sit down. I would love to. I've been to Vermont multiple times. I think you guys should sit down. He's too scared. Not in front of cameras.

I think it's just really weird to block someone who's never interacted with your page. Yeah. And this is long before I ever started covering Bravo. Was there a talk? Were you following him? No. I found out I was blocked when like Scandival happened and he was out there like acting like he was finally like the good guy because Tom Sandival was a bad guy.

He was one of the many people that Tom has rightfully called out for like monopolizing his trauma. And so I was like, hey, let's get Jack's on. And I was like, why can't I find his page? Turns out I was blocked. I found out I was blocked by another person in the public eye that I was this week and I was a bit surprised about it,

I'm not gonna say, but. Please, please divulge. I can't. Everybody's been blocked by Jax. He's blocked me at least six times since I've known him. Really? Yeah. And then we'll have a heart tie

and he's like, I'm sorry, I blocked you. He's never unblocked me. Maybe you need the heart to heart. Set it up. I think it, I blocked you. He's never unblocked me. Maybe you need the heart to heart. Set it up. I think it would be. Set it up. It would be. Not in front of the cameras.

It'd be a little contentious, a little, a little alpha at first. Would he rip off his shirt and fake fight me in the parking lot? Maybe. A la season one? Maybe pre-rehab Jax. He's, listen, I'm not saying he's cured, he's got a long way to go,

but Jax has been putting in work. Not saying he's cured, guys, relax. But I think he's putting some work in. I think it'd be nice to see you guys sit down and have a conversation. You on his podcast and him on yours. Yeah, sure. Can we put that out there?

I don't think we do his podcast. How do you feel about Jax's podcast? I think it's pretty funny. I mean, he's such a rare human being. Is he calling himself out for being a red flag? Oh yeah, that's his whole thing. The whole thing is him giving women warning signs? Yeah, that's the whole thing.

Just don't date guys like me. Is he dating? I don't think so. I think he's just semi semi celibate right now. I don't know. Just trying to not make as few bad decisions as possible. He's laying low, but he's, listen, Jax is a complicated creature, but um.

Him and Jesse. Yeah, yeah. By the end of the season, you think I'm gonna be like, wow, that Jesse Lali. I have no idea what happened, so this is a risky, this is no upside for me to say that right now, only downside, but. We're gonna hold you to it, we.

Yeah. I think that. We know you mean well. It's a hell of a show. It's a great show. It's really good. Well, a lot of people aren't, why do you think not as many people are watching it this season?

What the, oh, I think the ratings have been good. Critically acclaimed from what I see online. Again, love it, enjoy it, I think more people should be watching it, but like last time I checked, the ratings were down a bit. Really? Now maybe more people watching on Peacock than Bravo. Yeah, overnights aren't what they used to be.

Yeah, that's true. It's a hell of a show. Are there any Bravo shows that you do just enjoy as a fan? I just watched my first full season, Housewives of Beverly Hills, and I loved it. Yeah. It was so good. Did you start season one? I usually just pop into any random Housewives franchise

and watch like an episode or two. Team DeRite, Team Sutton, Team Garcelle. No hot takes. Damn it, I'm sorry. Shorts. Just spoon feed me one. Who do you want? You can just cut this out.

Who did you enjoy the most? Getting to, I really enjoyed getting to know Bose. Yeah. Wow. What an amazing human being. Not like. Okay. Who did you have a hard time understanding?

Literally. I got a little fed up with, I think Sutton. Sutton became. Naimah. Yeah, Sutton is a hard watch for me. Sutton, sorry. But I mean, I love her on the show. I still want her to be on the show,

but she's a hard watch for me. Why? I don't know. Her takes, she seems to unnecessarily insert herself in storylines that aren't, or not storylines, it's life, but moments that aren't really relevant. I don't know.

She just grates on me a little bit. There it is, my first hot take. Wait, she's gonna be mad at me. You've already apologized to me because you left her on the show. She won't even know. I'll just say I forced you to do it. Thank you.

What's your guys' current favorite show on Bravo? Summer House. Yeah, Summer House is on fire right now. Valley's so good. We're Housewives of Atlanta. Classic, iconic. Up next, we'll talk a little Housewives of Atlanta and Tom Swartz will stick around and...

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Is it normal for a baby to kind of say the alphabet at 15 months or is she a genius? Can't really tell it because it's my first kid. So like every time she does something, we're like. Prodigy. Prodigy. I would be doing the same thing. Whatever kind.

But then like for all I know, maybe she's behind. I don't know. It says around age three, kids may recognize about half the letters in the alphabet. She's going, eh, this, eh, eh. That's what she does. She's faster. Literally.

Three? Parents will come up to us and kinda act shocked that her kid is doing what she's doing. Listen, every kid moves at a different. That's true. Get her on the podcast. Honestly, she could probably carry a conversation a little bit better than you. At least today.

She could at least have some bigger takes. No, I'm self-aware. I'm dead weight today. She definitely has bigger balls. She could. Oh, should we get into some Atlanta and we can hear what Shores has to say about it? Take it away, babe. Favorite show on Bravo. It is my favorite show on Bravo. Should we get into some Atlanta and we can hear what Shores has to say about it?

Take it away, babe. Favorite show. I'm Bravo. It is my favorite show. I'm Bravo. I thought it was absolutely insane that Ralph, that these two ladies thought it was okay to sit down with Ralph. First of all, Ralph needs to get out of that basement and he has no excuses. We're all mad about the whole Drew and Dennis of it all and then it's like y'all are sitting down to a meal, but then this weird story of like, I don't know. Like I wasn't told he was going to be there and he wasn't told Portia was going to be here, but somehow we knew what table to go to, who we were meeting.

But even Shamiah to like want to sit down with him and her reason to be like, I was on his podcast or like we did a podcast together. And it's like- Now he's pitching podcast. Now he's pitching podcast. And his podcast pitches like family feud mix. He's like battle of the sexes because I don't know if you know this,

but like men and women are not getting along. And all I thought to myself was like, this sounds like it's gonna be difficult to listen to. Battle of the sexes. Shemeah's responses, okay, and how are you gonna sell that? Because ads is how you make money on your show. Well, then he said that Drew had an affair. So Ralph is just choosing violence.

I mean, we all wondered why Drew did not want the records out there of like why they're getting a divorce while she's sitting there airing out all of Ralph's dirty laundry, but was like, no, no, I don't want these out there for like our children to see. And then proceeds to list them. Yeah, and so Ralph being like, yeah, no, I don't want these out there for like our children to see. And then proceeds to list them. Yeah, and so Ralph being like, yeah, I guess she did.

Was he saying she had an affair with Dennis or no? Because Portia. He was saying that he filed the divorce first and that she had an affair with her friend that was mentioned on the show previously. But it was just mentioned as an emotional connection. I also don't believe Ralph when they're like, did you cheat on Drew?

And he's like, no. It didn't count. Who, me? Yeah. That felt like a false denial. Britt and Mike talking about how they walk around the house naked. Britt, I think, is probably one of my favorite housewives,

I have to say. Oh, y'all hate that. I'm an Angela stan, Brit. She's cool. I think Angela's my favorite housewife. I love Angela. I don't know. She seems the most, I believe her. I think she's honest.

Do you think she was right to bring up Shemia's words about Portia? That was the most confusing fight I've ever watched happen. It was like, so did Shemia say that to Drew? Or did Drew, like how was Angela there? Because the conversation that I saw was Kelly, Angela, and Drew. I do have a hard time keeping up with the drama in Atlanta.

I'm always like, why, who are I mad at? There's two different conversations. So there's the one where Drew was saying like, oh, I could pay for all of Portia's kids' college. That was- Fucked up. That was Shemeah and Angela. And Shemeah repeated that exactly how it was said. And then there was a different conversation

where Shemia and Angela spoke. This was isolated, I believe, from everybody else. And Shemia told Angela how she felt then Angela got with Portia one-on-one and was like, just so you know, this is how Shemia feels. But definitely caused more drama than helping patch things up because I do love that Angela's like, I like to put everybody together and I like to fix everything.

She's like, so just girl, just so you know, your best friend thinks you're talking shit. Doesn't want to be a lapdog. Literally. She started the fight with Shemia at the peace thing. And then she was like, OK, so how do you feel? Yeah. I just did that to get you riled up.

I did. I, listen, Shemia repeated exactly what Drew said. And like, I would also be very pissed off if another woman is saying she's gonna like send my daughter to college with the money she's making with my husband. Like, especially because you have your own kids. Yeah, literally.

You have your own kids. And clearly a husband who's not helping. And I'm also confused. So is Dennis saying that he's not sleeping with Drew, that Drew's actually sleeping with someone else, but there's a text message that Drew propositioned for free music? Yeah.

And then it seems like Dennis was like, no, I don't want you. I just want the money. Yikes. So then now she's hooking up with his friend. Because all of this was drama, was about Drew sleeping with Dennis and filming with Dennis. And now I'm like, wait, are these two separate things that we're upset about is filming

with Dennis equally as bad as sleeping with him behind your back, if not worse. Cause that's kind of what it sounds like. Maybe, maybe, maybe. Portia having all of these women at her event to just like shoot content for the event was fucked up. I thought it was hilarious for Drew specifically, because she was part of the campaigns and then removed from the campaigns. And I was like, oh, just take a photo.

Yeah, but also come to my party, everyone. And then like we have the best photographer in Atlanta. Everyone pose with product and like this will be on our site. Where you would normally be paid separately for that. And she was like, it's fine. Put on my outfits and do a photo shoot for my brand for free. Thank you. That was crazy.

Now what would be crazy, and there would be within every right to do, is to say, you didn't get my permission to post this and have her take it down. That would be- I'm sure that's coming. I don't know, Cynthia Bailey already posted her like five slight carousel. Yeah, but Cynthia is like the most unproblematic housewife lover,

but she does not want to start any drama. She's the Tom Schwartz of Atlanta. 100%. Thank you for making it relatable for me. Wait, did they acquiesce and say, "'Yeah, we'll shoot with your stuff "'and then regret it afterwards'? In like real time, I think it,

well, at least this is how it was portrayed or aired. It seemed like in real time, as they were like taking photos in a lingerie, they realized, oh, we're being used. Ah. Literally. Because it was like, we're taking photos and then it was like, get the sheets.

Portia's like posing with her hand on the sheets with all of the women around her. So. So like, oh, we're in an Instagram ad. Oh, I did not know that. Yeah. That's good. How would you feel about that?

I mean, that's kind of happened in a way, like, but we were aware and we consented, like with James May and Kristen Doty, like she would ask me to come model for it and we'd be filming an episode too. But I had already agreed in advance. It wasn't kind of bamboozled. What did you think of Jack stealing James May's design?

Okay, I called him out on that or I talked to him. He's like, I had no idea. It's a pretty stock design, but he took it down immediately. Can you tell when Jack Stailer's lying? No, he's a good liar. Genuine question. But yeah, no.

No, he's a good liar. I believe that. No, but he took it down immediately and he apologized to Kristen, from what I understand. Okay. Yeah, so took accountability. You guys are, I'm getting FOMO cause I haven't watched. You have to watch that one.

You have to, it's such a good season. I mean, I got to spend some time with Portia. When? Stars on Mars. Oh yeah. That was a show that really didn't take off that I was disappointed in. I thought like they cast,

they're brilliant casting and it was so many. Lance Armstrong and Marshawn Lynch. I'm saying. You had Portia, you had Tom Schwartz. Tallulah was on it too, right? Love Tallulah. Are you guys all friends with Tallulah? Shout out to Tallulah.

Yeah, she's awesome. Wait, so what did you think of Portia? She's just a force, she just has that it factor. She has star quality. When you're in her presence, you can sense it. She has like an aura. She does. You're just like, I get it immediately.

And she's really funny. And she makes you feel like you've known her for a long time. She was so nice to me. Is there a dream like wife in Bravo for you? I mean, we all know the obvious answer. Katie Flood? No, I was thinking Lisa Vanderpump.

Lisa Vanderpump. I love Lisa. I've honestly liked her less and less. Yeah. Really? Yeah. I have such a great relationship with less. Yeah. Really? Yeah. I have such a great relationship with her. You know her better than I do.

I just feel like she seems problematic, to be honest. I mean, covering for James Kennedy for so long. She seems to really throw the women under the bus unnecessarily. She kind of, I mean, she doesn't give like necessarily role model, maybe to some of the men. I mean, she does seem to cover for you guys quite a bit in the past. Just, you know.

What, no, wait, this is a scathing, this is not fair. I mean, wait, am I, what am I missing? Is there things that have happened that I don't know about? There's a lot of, it's a lot of it is based around the James and Allie of it all, where she called Allie two months after James and Allie of it all, where she called Allie two months after James and her altercation went public and the police report came out

and called her two months later to quote unquote check on her, but then also try to convince her to get back with James. And then reminded her that she was also drinking too. Yeah, so kind of implied like maybe it was also your fault. Oh God. Which is giving a little like, mm, don't love that.

It doesn't sound good though. Doesn't sound good. Yeah. I've only met Lisa once, she was very nice, very nice to me, incredibly nice. But like some of her online persona kinda gives like, I'm too good for you. But you would marry her.

I mean, Jesus, you guys did not expect it to go in that direction. Sorry, no more softballs. We've turned into deep, hard-hitting questions. I didn't ask him how he felt about me. Listen, I'm a partner with her. We've always had a great relationship and she's been nothing but a champion for me since I met her.

Yeah, that makes sense. But no, I mean, listen, she's held me accountable too when I'm a fuck up. And yeah. That's true. Moving on. How's Tom Tom? Tom Tom's doing OK. I mean, the restaurant industry's held me accountable too when I'm a fuck up and yeah. That's true. Moving on. How's TomTom? TomTom's doing okay. I mean, the restaurant industry as a whole in LA,

it's been rough. What do you think that is? You just like the Gen Zs are just like on their phones and don't need to go out and they're drinking water and like alcohol is a new thing. I think post pandemic to a lot of people are saving their money and not like going out to dinner and going out to bars and drinking the way they used to.

There's also a health culture of Gen Z is turning into green smoothies and air. The wine instead of the hard liquor and beans over. Or mocktails. Yeah, but there's been plenty of alcoholics who've made a career off of drinking wine only. Totally. And I think just, yeah, but just not to generalize

or make a sweeping generalization of Gen Z, but yeah, they go out less. The ones who do party, at least the ones I know, they don't really go out to like, they'll maybe get a drink or two at the bars, but they go to like house parties or they go to like underground raves. The ones who do-

They're having hibachi come to their backyard. Yeah. But yeah, man, it's a tough time to be a bar or restaurant owner in LA. It's scary, especially if your name's on a five, 10 year lease. Oh my God. Is that what yours is?

No, it was. But it sucks. Is that completely like, I mean, I know it's been like a financial bummer, but like, are you at least like done with it? Like is it all, it's everything's done and taken care of. Totally. It's like you're not. Everything's done and taken care of. And I just like, now it's just an owl and you moved on.

Yeah. I mean, this just being like, it's so nice being able to go on a little getaway or vacation now and not be worrying about how that's going to negatively impact my bankroll, you know what I mean? That did wreak havoc on my peace and wellbeing. Do you feel like you have to be at Tom Tomford to? No. But did you feel like that about Schwartz and Sandy's?

Yes. That like if you weren't there, then it wasn't. We find it at Schwartz and Sandy's and we were on the lease, so yeah. But TomTom, I'm a minority stakeholder and it runs itself. Yeah, I feel like it's like kind of a tourist attraction. It's, you know. Do you guys wanna come TomTom?

Oh, Saturday? I've never been. I'm hosting brunch Saturday if you guys wanna come. It's World Dog Day. Sure. And then I'm gonna be hosting at TomTom if you guys wanna come. You bringing Butters and Gordo? Nah, they don't like big gatherings.

They freak out. Yeah, they get social anxiety. I just had a question, because we're watching season six, I think of Vanderpump Rules on Plus, and they're talking about the negotiation of your deal where it was like a 10% buy-in, then it was a 5% buy-in.

Are you still a 5% owner? Yeah. Actually, yes, we are. I haven't looked at the percentage one up. What does that bankroll look like for you? Is it significant? It's not lucrative, it's just cool to be a bar owner in West Hollywood.

And I love when I have a business meeting or friends in town, it's great to have a place to take them. It's got the glitz and the glamour. Is it financially rewarding? No. Have you made your money back? Technically, yes. I mean, we did.

We crushed our first year, and then we took our profits and we just parlayed them into the expansion, which was the garden at TomTom, now it's Pump. Yeah. You guys have never been to TomTom? I have. Yeah. I guys have never been to TomTom? I have. Yeah.

I like the purple butterfly drink, the Madame. Oh, the Madame Butterfly. There you go. Yeah, I like to get it with no simple syrup. Oh, all right. It's a little sweet for me, but that's our best selling drink. Did you watch Love Island?

I watched my first season when Ariana was hosting. That's another cast I would like to see more longevity to. I'd like to watch them on another show. Well, they cast I would like to see more longevity to. I'd like to watch them on another show. Well, they're having a bit of a spinoff. You're lucky. Yeah. Wait, really?

Is it official? I am curious if they have staying power. It'll be interesting. I mean, they shine bright and hot. They did, but like, the big question is, can they do it on their own? Yeah. Because they were the first cast for Love Island USA

to make it pop, so there is that. And then the question for Love Island USA, with season seven about to premiere, is will they be able to like keep that momentum going? Or is it really just about that cast? I think season seven is gonna pop. Who do you miss the most from Vanderpump rules, Kath? Um, I pretty much see everybody. Let's see. Well, I don't I haven't seen James in a long time

I haven't seen Ali in a long time, but I see Sheena. I see Brock He said everybody I saw Ariana at um, Kristen Doty's in Luke's baby shower. That was really nice. We had a nice little chat She's crushing it in life. She seems so happy. Do you agree that Luke is the best looking guy on the valley in person? He he is good looking but into the kind of a rugged Maybe like early 1800 sort of way He looks like classically good looking like he he should have been, like if he was in Tombstone, he would have fit right in. He's kind of got those rugged Western good looks.

But that counts. Yeah. I know it's not, I know it's not like pretty boy model. Who do you guys think's the best looking person on the Valley? Luke. It's official? That's what I think.

I haven't met Jesse in person, but he looks short. If you can set aside, you know, the things you know, or your feelings about Jax, you don't think he's the best. Oh my God, no. No, God. Who's the, I'm trying to think out loud here. You mean like at 20, 25 Jax? I mean, he's a handsome guy, but the years have not been kind.

And he hasn't not been kind to himself. Let's see. Jesse, Jason, Danny, Jax, and Luke. Yep, Luke. Those are your guys. Who's the best looking? This is my hot take. Who's the hottest dude in the valley? You have to give one.

You met them all in person. You have to give one. Like who is? Sorry boys. I'm gonna say, listen, Jason's a lawyer. I've always had a thing for lawyers. I'm gonna say Jason. Okay.

I just, I'm so impressed with like the knowledge they have. Like I wish I had a lawyer's education. Okay. You know what I mean? I guess I'll pick Jason. Sorry boys. I wish I had a lawyer's education. You know what I mean? I guess I'll pick Jason. Sorry boys. I have another random Vanderpump rules question but applicable to today.

What's your technique for your hair? Oh, it's great. I was like throughout the seasons, it's different lengths, but it's just like, it goes this way and it goes. It's kind of effortless. I like to think it's like- No, there's a lot of effort. Oh really?

He doesn't touch his hair. You're able to like pull on it and then it's still. It's very malleable. It's still styled. Very malleable. It is. Flexible. But I would be partially gray down here

if it wasn't for dye. Like just. Do you add home dye it? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don't do full though. I started doing that recently. I leave some grays.

But like when you style it, you just put some like, and then are you just like. Murray's Palmate, it's $3 at CVS. I've been using it since 2004. Plug. It's the best in the business. Just speaking of pharmacy, Justin actually has some, a story, it's near and dear to his heart

he wants to talk about. Rite Aid is closing. Am I the only one that's sad about this? Well, I am, because I've been living in LA for 10 years, but if you're not from the West Coast, you don't even know what Rite Aid is. Well, my thing is, where are you going to get Band-Aids and ice cream?

CVS, Duane Reed, Walgreens. But Thrifties is like a specific ice cream. What is Thrifties? It's an ice cream that's at Rite Aid. Nowhere else. And you think it's like the best ice cream ever? If you get it fresh. But it's like crispy, like it's shaped in a way that other ice creams aren't shaped.

Is ice cream ever really fresh? No, that's a thing. Wait, you're the only person I've ever known in my life that's actually gone to. Ice cream, never frozen. You've got it at one of the stands in the stores. It's good. Yeah.

Anyways, RIP. Yeah, it's up there with Schwartz and Sandys now. Are you team Justin or team Blake? Oh, with the lawsuit? I don't know enough about it to weigh in. I know it seems like a convenient, but from what I've seen on the internet, it's not looking good for, I don't know.

You thought I'd pick a good answer. I will not say a name at all, don't ask them to. It seems like it's going great for him. Yeah, moving on. Go back to Summerhouse for a second. Wasn't it crazy for Jesse to even pull Sierra aside and have a talk with her? If you're Lexi at that point, you're just done with her.

Keep in mind, the relationship's already on the fence. He's like, Sierra, can we talk alone? Could you imagine if you were dating a guy and you were not sure about where things stood? He said he's loved you a few times. You've had some sex, you've had some fights. There's this friend of his that's another beautiful woman that he seems to be awkwardly a little close with.

And then he all of a sudden shows up that weekend and he's like, Sierra, let's talk. I don't know. I think the whole thing is just weird in general. I'm assuming, I think Jesse and Lexi showing up together this week was weird. Oh my God, the kissing in the room, even Wes looking at camera being like, what the fuck?

That was a great fourth wall moment. Great, great. I love Wes, it's so funny. Honestly, the season of Summer House, they are kinda doing the office style where it's like they're keeping in the looks and glances at the camera, and it just adds that like, perfect.

Wes is like, you know, he at least seems to accept the stage of life that he's in, which is like to just fuck around and have some fun, which I appreciate. Not try to be someone's girlfriend. Jesse? No, Wes. Oh, oh.

Yeah, and even then, I thought it was funny when Wes was like offering to get Sierra something, and she was just like, why is he being so nice to me? Like, he's been trying to be nice to you this whole summer. You just haven't received it. Sierra giving Wes the rest of her martini mix. He was like, so cute. He went to like, cheers.

But to go back to your question, I think that like, I'm assuming that Jesse must have said something to Lexi. I hate saying these two names together, by the way. But I think Jesse said to Lexi that like, I'm assuming that Jesse must have said something to Lexi, I hate saying these two names together by the way, but I think Jesse said to Lexi that like, I'm gonna have a talk with Sierra because I feel like that would have sparked something otherwise. But I'm like, I do think it's, if you wanna repair your friendship, then I don't think he's going about it the right way.

She seems so over it. She seems like she like agreed to like keep it going for TV, because everything he said, she goes, mm-hmm. Yeah. I just, I never saw the stakes there. To me, by the way, I only spent a brief amount of time with them before what I've seen on TV. It seems like it was just kind of a situationship,

like fun loving. Except for he was like, I love you. Oh, see, I missed that. Oh yeah, first thing in the morning. 11 days in, he said he loved her. Texting her multiple times. Seeing the parents. Compared her helping his drunk friend

to getting his toe suck. The whole thing. The toe suck. Toegate. What do you think happened in there? I mean- Was Emeril just fucking constantly when you were up there? He wasn't there when I was there.

Oh, okay. I stayed in his room though. So they were like, you better get the black light out. Did it smell like sex? No, it didn't. They washed the sheets for me. You slept on the floor though. I did one night.

Yeah. Why? I think you slept in your suitcase. It feels good for my back. On my back. Your lumbar? Every once in a while, I like to have a nice hard surface for my back.

To get on the floor. Yeah. Do you do that at home too? Sometimes. I'm a floor person through and through. Like I love watching TV on the floor. Couches are okay. You wanna sit down?

I mean, could I? I feel like I'll open up if I can actually look down to the floor. Absolutely. When was the last time you felt like someone was truly mad at you for something you did? Because I feel like a lot of people have been mad at you for things that you haven't done. Yeah. Yeah.

Probably, yeah. Does that make sense? Yeah, let me think on that. Let me marinate on Yeah. Probably, yeah. Does that make sense? Yeah. Let me think on that. Let me marinate on that. Probably, I mean, I don't know if I want to open up those cans of worms. Katie was really upset about that incident in Mexico with you know who that we referenced

earlier. Yeah. She was very, and it made me sad because me and Katie are- It wasn't real. It wasn't real. I was like, oh my God, I've blown up my friendship with my ex-wife over this. Is it crazy to say ex-wife?

It's so crazy. Isn't it crazy? It ages you. But it also adds some like mystique, doesn't it? Ooh, this guy's an ex-wife. Yeah. What else do I not know about him? There is some mystery.

Yeah, it does give the vibe that you've like survived like trauma. The war. Yeah. I think I met, it does give the vibe that you've survived trauma. I think, from the female gaze, I don't think it's a bad thing to have been divorced. I would think that it makes you seem like you're seasoned and you are maybe more domesticated, even though it didn't end well, but you've learned a lot. You're probably at least a little bit more

emotionally intelligent than the average man. Do you miss wearing a wedding ring? So much, that's why Kyle Chan made me this. Do you miss saying my wife? Yeah. Because I really enjoy saying my wife. It was powerful. It's sexy.

Like this is my wife. You know, it is powerful. It means something. And now you say this is my ex-wife. Yeah. I don't think I've ever, you know what's never happened yet? I've never got to be in a group setting and like,

this is my ex. Introduce me. Tom, how do you feel about Roni potentially being put on pause or canceled or, you know, there's a lot of like misinformation, information, Andy's pushing back and your thoughts, feelings, concerns. Such a, this is stock, but it's an iconic franchise. I feel like it needs to live on maybe

through different cast members or maybe go back to OGs. If you can't make New York work, what are you doing? Yeah. Right? I'd like to see some of the younger generations become housewives and like, I don't know, I've heard murmurs of maybe Paige becoming a housewife. Paige and Lindsay?

Yeah. I would watch the hell out of that. I would say though, I want my housewives to be wives. So you hate all of Beverly Hills? Yeah. No, I want wives. I want people in domesticated relationships. I want that dynamics, why I like the Valley so much.

I want those interpersonal relationships. I want that family drama. And if you're gonna get me single people, I want them dynamics, why I like the Valley so much. I want those interpersonal relationships. I want that family drama. And if you're gonna get me single people, I want them willing to date. I will say I do like on OC, Tamara and Eddie, when like Tamara starts popping off and Eddie is like, stop it, stop it. You know, I do like that dynamic.

I just don't want a group of girlfriends only talking about girlfriend drama. Either date or incorporate like your dating life into the show or give me domesticated relationships. Like one of the two. Yeah, I agree. Or someone who's freshly divorced or separated who's looking to find love again.

I always love that dynamic. Yeah. I think we need the OGs. Boz brought her partner on and we got to know her partner and we got to learn about her still wanting to have children and that relationship, interesting dynamic. I want more of that.

She said, she said, fights. I think you need a balance of OGs and newbies. Yes. That's what every franchise had except for Roni where they just scrapped everybody. If Lindsey can get her new man, Baby Daddy, to come on Roni, sign me up. If not, not interested.

And then throw Sonja in there. I'm not interested in Paige and Hannah just coming on and we have the Giggily squad for that. We don't need it for, you know. If Paige wants to date and bring Mr. Philadelphia Eagle. They're not together anymore. Okay, well, whoever man that she is dating, I would watch that, you know.

I think she said she's single, multiple times. Tom Schwartz, are we gonna get a reboot or a kickback of Winterhouse? I don't know. I'd love to see it. I mean, it worked wonders for me. It's probably one of the greatest reprieves of my life. I realized that every time I went there,

I was going through something, like a significant moment or traumatic moment in my life. I was really down for, if there was any spin-off that I would have voted for from Vanderpump, would have been a TomTom spin-off. TomTom spin-off? There may be, once upon a Tom, there's maybe something like that happening.

And I, but mostly, cause if you, I wanted. It's so good. Yeah, you should have used that. That should have been your bar name. But if you were willing to expose your dating life on a TV show and if Tom was willing to talk about his relationship with Victoria, I would be down for that.

I would watch the hell out of that. I would watch the hell out of that. Would you do it if they came to you with a proposal? I don't think anybody wants that, but I would do it, yeah. People would watch it. They might criticize and roll their eyes and they, but I would do it, yeah. People would watch it. They might criticize and roll their eyes and they're like, no one asked for this, they would all watch.

Really? Yeah. Yeah, I would do it. I wanna Tom Schwartz dating show. No, nobody wants that. I wanna see you date 21 minutes once. I'm so simple and sweet. Did you be the next bachelor?

Did I just call myself simple and sweet? No, I'm not simple. If you got invited to Bachelor in Paradise, would you go? I mean, I'm just kind of bored. No, God no. I have so much respect. I talked to Joey about this. Joey, who was on- Form of Bachelor.

Yeah. I just said, I can never do what you guys do, Nick. Just like, it's such a weird, unnatural thing to be dating 30 different women at once. It's a natural, it's all drinks and women, but you do it. No way. Whoa, whoa, whoa. That was, sorry.

That was a little low. That was my stunt double. That was a stand in. But no, no. I'm sorry, that was unnecessary. No, yeah, yeah. That was. I can't.

He's sweating really hard. You did for like Amazon Prime or something, like Travis Kelce, and then he ended up with Taylor Swift. Yeah. You know? Yeah. This is all just for the experience. My God, it's probably one of my biggest fears. That's the last type of show I would ever do. with Taylor Swift. Yeah. You know? Yeah. This is all just for the experience.

My God. It's probably one of my biggest fears. That's the last type of show I would ever do. Who is your celebrity crush? Can't be Elise of Vandermonte. Celebrity crush? If she'll have me, I really think Charlie XCX is sexy. If she'll have me.

My God. Great choice. If she'll have me. I also have a crush on Rashida Jones. Okay. You're creative. I've always had a thing for her. Have you like slid in the DMs for anyone? Is Charlie single? No, I've never slid in the DMs I'm so not a DMer. It's how I met Nick. Really? You know I have a baby. Wow. Okay Maybe you should. You've never DM'd anyone ever?

Not really. I mean I was always in a relationship Well, don't give me that face, Nick. Don't give me that face. I'm just saying you haven't been. No, yes. I was like, I was never like the thing yet. Well, that's not good. That's not helping up that can of worms.

OK. Those are drunk. You're right. And I guess when DMS really took off, you were you were in a serious relationship. Yeah. And then you know, then now you, you probably feel too old for the DMs. Totally. I mean, yeah, I talk to fans via DMs that all platonic, fun, sweet stuff. Thanks for the love,

or sometimes people will ask me for cameos. You've ever sent a nude? Never. I mean, I'm not opposed to it, but I think it's too late in the game for me. What would be your angle of nude? Would you do like mirror pic, or would you do like? I probably do like, Under? would you do like... I'd probably do like...

Under? I'd probably do like towel drop down so half is exposed, you know? That is art. I wouldn't have the full... Of course not. Full heart. You wouldn't be...

Why was Jax flashing the paparazzi? I still don't fully understand that. And he, I mean, he was laughing about it too. He's like, I was just adjusting my junk, like any guy does. But- Did he not see the paparazzi there? No.

I think they're almost always following him just waiting for them to- Literally. I was like, if they're smart. If they're smart. That's headline news. I was like, come on. It was like in a grocery store parking lot or something.

No, it was the craziest dick grab I've ever seen. Yeah, like the whole thing was out. Really? Like no, like I think I- Did you see his dick? It's censored out but it's there. It's so, so blurred. What?

No, no, I did not. It just looked like he was adjusting his- Oh my God, it was the most blurred image I've ever seen. It was like an itch adjustment, right? He adjusted by pulling a little lower than a normal adjustment. Yeah, he pulled his pants down. Really?

Yeah. They've redacted all photos online now, but. Oh. Perhaps. I don't even think they're great. Publicist has the power to get images scrubbed from the internet. Well, now it's just a black bar.

No, it's still there. They just put a black bar instead of a blur now. Oh, oh, you could see his junk before? I don't know if a publicist does, but money talks. I heard it takes $50,000 to scrub something off the internet. Really? 50,000? That's a lot, but it's actually not.

But who would you have to go to? I don't know. Tom. Look, are you kidding? That's the craziest thing ever. Oh, wait. No. Like that's not like a normal adjustment.

That's not an adjustment. That's a flash. He's flashing the paparazzi his day. He's pulling down his pants. One hand is pulling, and then the other hand is pulling up his shirt. If his hands were on his junk, and then he- It's just a his hands were on his junk and then it's just a weird angle I think that's not a weird jackson's not someone who's gonna whip out his private part of the photo of the

thing that is not a photo of him with the outspread of it parts and pulling down his pants like pulling up his sweatshirt he was if he was this that's what I think you're asking but that's not that's literally not what is happening there. I'm watching your eyes try to find a way to explain that, but you can't. I don't know. There's like a... What did your spiritual healer say?

What would Jaclyn say? That's funny. Well, I don't know. The guy's not fondling himself in public. It was clearly an accident. I just, yeah. I feel like that does it. But there's evidence everybody.

You gotta get into Karen Reed. Do you not true crime it much? I love true crime, but can you give me a little, after we get off air, we can. So you didn't see that clip? No. Yeah. Karen Reed is currently on her second trial for being charged with murdering her Boston cop boyfriend,

hitting him with her car and leaving him in the snow to die. I've seen the headlines. Have you guys done a deep dive? Natalie's dive and so deep. I've recently got into it. Natalie had me convinced of her innocence. I was like, I've seen it departed. I know cops can be crooked. And now he's turning on me. It's not, I just, you know, there's the difference between like, a bunch of, I just like, we do live in a time

where internet theories, I mean, let's be honest, like Karen Reed's, like the Save Karen Reed movement was started by a guy online named Turtle Boy. And I just think it's when it comes to like, her innocence is more salacious than her guilt. Like the idea that a bunch of cops would get together and cover up a murder is just like a more salacious than her guilt. Like the idea that a bunch of cops would get together and cover up a murder is just like a more salacious story. And that's why I think a lot of fans are leaning

into that more salacious story. But when you break it all down, like it's way more believable that she did it. Is this a documentary or a podcast or both? Or which one? I'm sure there's billions of podcasts talking about it. There's a docu-series on Max, Body in the Snow. There's also one in Hulu, I believe.

We watched one on Max and I'm basing a lot of my opinions off of that documentary and then my wife. And the second trial is live right now on Law and Crime YouTube. I don't think she should be convicted because I don't think the state has done enough to prove her guilt. There's a lot of like reasonable doubt and just bad police work.

But was he an abusive POS or something? Was it it was an act of passion, retaliation or self defense? They have a history of being a little toxic and a little reactive. I don't think we know enough about him. I don't know. I'm asking you guys. The date for BravoCon was just announced. Are you going to go? I hope so. I hope so. I'm asking you guys. Yeah, he seems like a good guy. The date for BravoCon was just announced. Are you gonna go?

I hope so. At the craft party? I hope so. Is that something you get invited to? Yeah. Or you do? Like you've been invited post end of Vanderpump. Have I?

Hasn't existed since. I've never missed a BravoCon since they started. But. What was one expected at BravoCon? What's it like? Oh my God. It's honestly, it's all the different shows from the Bravoverse colliding, coming together

and just seeing all the different casts, how they interact and just hanging out afterwards. It's kind of magical. It's like going to Bravo Camp, Bravo Summer Camp. A music festival for Bravo fans. It really is. And then it's like, I personally will go and hang out with people.

I'm not like I'm meeting fans and say, meet me here and we'll hang out. But like, I make it a point to go out and be accessible and hang out with everybody, which in the past has worked to my detriment. How so? No, just like being not having healthy boundaries, just giving too much of myself over. I don't mean like sexually or anything inappropriate, but just giving, just being way too available for people to hang out with. Yeah. Like following them on Instagram, getting their number, which I never call them, but

yeah, I used to get reprimanded for that a lot. And I'm like, you have a point. I probably shouldn't be giving out my number to multiple people a night. That you don't know. But it's just like, man, they're like, we just got married. We would love to grab a drink with you. And in the moment You're like, yeah That's crazy behavior Tom. I know I know I don't unless you change your number

I haven't changed my number since I got it in 2004. You should do that. Yeah, Nick just recently made me change mine Really? Yeah, Tom. It's always good to see you. I love it you guys. Please plug your podcast you guys I love it you guys. Please plug your podcast. You guys, podcast one, wherever you download, get your podcasts, you know, iTunes, Amazon, Spotify, whatever, but it's called Detox, Retox. Every Tuesday, new episodes. We're making magic over here.

It's been really fun. And I appreciate all the love and positive feedback lately. It's been really solid. Don't expect any shit talking. I mean, it's very experiential. And it's raw, but shit talking hot takes not so much. That's what you tune into the Vile files for. Yeah.

Not this episode. Team Shira. Eventually. Did we get one hot take? Thanks for listening, guys. Do not forget to tune in tomorrow for an explosive Going Deeper with your newest member of Mom Talk

and the Secret Lives of Mormon Whites, which does premiere on Thursday, season two on Hulu. Check it out, but you will not wanna miss this Going Deeper episode. This is explosive, it's wild. And then Demi and Brett return. Well, Brett's Brett's first time, but the drama unfolds. A lot of, I mean, honestly, it'd be fascinating

for you guys to unpack a lot of serious fights, relationships, a lot of accusations being thrown on this world, and it's a lot to unpack, but we try our best to do it. And that's all, Starge Tomorrow. We'll see you then. Bye bye.