The WAN Show - 4K YouTube Is Getting PAYWALLED - WAN Show October 7, 2022

Starting point is 00:00:00 How y'all doing, everyone? Happy Friday, and welcome to the WAN Show! We've got a great show lined up for you guys today. We are well into Techtober. We got Pixels to talk about. We got ARC GPUs to talk about. We got 4090 GPUs to talk about. We got 13th Gen-

Starting point is 00:00:16 Wait, no. No, we're not talking about 13th Gen. Not- Uh, that- That's still under NDA. Hold on. But there's lots more coming! What else we got? I took all the good ones. Got them. I think you took everything. No, no, no.

Starting point is 00:00:27 YouTube test putting 4K behind a paywall. I have the hottest take. You do, actually. I actually have the hottest take. And I am here for it this time. I got your back. Also, there was a Made by Google event which broadcasted all of the most boring things

Starting point is 00:00:44 you could possibly imagine. Oh, come on! But we will make it interesting! Oh, come on! Just like we always do! Hit it, Chewy! Wow! Chewy! I got him! Punch it. Darn it. Yeah, you were close.

Starting point is 00:01:03 I know. He doesn't Star Wars. he thinks he's star wars so i guess we're gonna have to jump right into the big topic now yeah i'm not going to break down the extremely long and detailed argument that i have for my position here oh we're going to do it because it's going to be a separate video. I recorded it today. Hopefully it'll go up early next week. But the word, well, not the word on the street.

Starting point is 00:01:34 YouTube has tested putting 4K behind a YouTube premium paywall. So essentially making access to the 4K resolution. I mean, it's not really a drop down because it pops up. Jump up the cog. Carburetor, whatever. YouTube has made access to the 4K quality selection in the cog in the player. A premium exclusive feature along with other premium features

Starting point is 00:02:04 like background playback the removal of ads bundling with youtube music and such things this is an unexpected course change if you don't really if you weren't really ready for it, I think. I mean, considering that YouTube has, over time, done nothing but add higher resolution, higher quality media support. 360 video. To their paid tier. 8K, HDR. They have never actually hidden or blocked off or paywalled the highest quality experience.

Starting point is 00:02:45 Subtitles, no matter what it is, it's always been available to everyone. They introduced 4K in 2010. They did 8K in 2015, which given the technical challenges around 8K, seven years ago, was kind of wild honestly i am surprised that more people didn't cause problems for them with it because you don't need an 8k camera to export an 8k video and take advantage of that extra bit rate i'm surprised that more people didn't take

Starting point is 00:03:22 advantage of high refresh rate is another thing that YouTube has added for all users. A lot of this all came at a pretty similar time. It felt like there was almost a video technology kick that YouTube was on around when they launched, they launched 8K, they launched 360 video, they launched VR support, which is kind of similar to 360 video, but it's not exactly the same. They launched all this other type of stuff they did all of it at a very similar time and they've continued pushing for it but not quite as hard as they did in the past yeah but here it is confirmed witnessed

Starting point is 00:03:53 out in the real world 2160p resolution premium feature look at that premium tap to upgrade right there what else can we say about it excuse me um and this is not just one post so there have been multiple posts on reddit uh and this is coming right on the heels

Starting point is 00:04:20 of the extra unskippable ads controversy just Just last month, which was as little as eight days ago, some users were experiencing up to 10 unskippable ads in a row. YouTube said this was a small experiment. Everything that I heard about it was off the record. So I can't quote anybody or anything or whatever. I can't tell you how i know any of this but um what i will say is that google is a very engineering focused company and engineering a scientific approach requires testing experimentation and evaluation of results and what i will say is that before you assume that youtube is just a bunch of dunderheads um they everyone that i did or didn't speak to who knows allegedly um knew that that was an

Starting point is 00:05:18 extremely bad idea and that it was not necessary to test that just so just so you guys know i mean it's not that i think youtube does everything right by any stretch of the imagination but that i think was not i think that was more of like a policy problem than an actual we think this is a good idea i think it's one of those situations where problem like a bunch of people probably really were very certain that something wouldn't work. And then someone finally was like, no, we have to test it. They tested it and it worked really well. Or just differing from the expected result, right? And then the person who was right was like, no, now we have to test everything.

Starting point is 00:06:01 Now we have to test everything. YouTube has been quoted saying the goal of that experiment was to see if it was a better experience for viewers to reduce the number of ad breaks. Yeah. While, of course, still getting all of that. Yeah. Still getting all the ad revenue. And I know the answer was no, that was not a better experience. Which is honestly. I could kind of see it being a better experience

Starting point is 00:06:27 sometimes yeah I could especially for music yeah yeah I could see that having a longer a longer uninterrupted like if you wanted to I've never actually done this but I know people do if you wanted to watch like a concert sure having that get interrupted by

Starting point is 00:06:43 an ad break would be really weird yeah that'd be really disruptive yeah yep yep i can see that making matters even more challenging for web users who are not super into paying for premium and not super into ads chrome will be making it more difficult to use ad blocking extensions to rectify any of these problems for yourself. Manifest V3 is the new extension platform for Chrome, and they may start turning off support for V2 as early as January 2023. That's like three months, three and a half months. Oh, yeah. Most modern ad blockers rely on Chrome's web request API

Starting point is 00:07:20 to block categories of HTTP requests. But Manifest V3 requires devs to use a declarative declarative net request which forces them to use a block list of specific urls and that list of rules is limited to 30 000 entries many ad blocking lists can exceed 300 000 entries to give you guys some idea malvertising providers are rejoicing at this. I think... Yeah, I think that's something a lot of people have misunderstood about our previous discussions around adblock. I think that there are a lot of people who saw us make a video about Piehole and then saw me discuss the impact of adblocking on online content creators and saw hypocrisy there.

Starting point is 00:08:08 But actually, there's no hypocrisy there. There is an impact. And technology like Piehole does exist and does have valid uses. There's absolutely malicious advertising online there, or rather, not necessarily even advertising at that point it's just malware but it uses many of the same delivery mechanisms yeah they sneak through advertising platforms um and so this is it's interesting you block origin i think but i don't remember uh said that they they believe strongly that they're going to be able to make it work. But I'm kind of... They have to say that. What else would they say?

Starting point is 00:08:48 Yeah. Sorry, guys. We will... We have no idea. Nope. We're going to toss on the towel. I'm hoping that it's a bit of a resurgence for Firefox. That's my hope.

Starting point is 00:08:58 Yeah, you're a Firefox fanboy. I always forget about that. Yeah. I try to... I often end up not really being able to use it because uh i i haven't been very good in a long time and i have a pretty strong stance of yeah if i'm using this thing for work it has to be the best thing even if i don't like it yeah and like having interruptions in my work because my browser is having issues when i could just use

Starting point is 00:09:23 chrome is like unacceptable so i've been on chrome for a while because every time i've tried firefox i've had issues but i know you're not happy about it but i'm not happy about it and i'm i'm going to try nightly boy you know yeah i used to love that yeah i know i know and i deal with the problems when it was personal stuff yeah um but yeah so i'm going to try again, probably in January, Firefox. Hear me out. See how it goes. Safari.

Starting point is 00:09:48 Oh. People are talking about it in the chat. I'm like, sure, I'll pitch it for you. I'll pitch it. See how it goes. Now, aside from the ad blocking conversation, let's jump back to 4K for a second. One of our discussion questions here is should

Starting point is 00:10:05 4k be a premium perk and it says here most people don't even need it i think that's a deeper longer conversation that's going to happen in the dedicated video yeah but i want to have a separate conversation about floatplane our video platform yeah? Officially, Trailblazers. Our video platform actually charges extra, not just a little bit. It works out to, for the platform, more than double for 4K.

Starting point is 00:10:36 And the way that that works, it's actually from $5 to $10, which is double, but the way that that works out is that at the lower transaction amount it's more of it gets eaten up by credit card processing fees and stuff so hold on the five to ten dollar jump is your pricing yeah you're just talking about the platform oh sorry yes yes so the way that it ends up working on the line of sec tips page that is on the platform is a five

Starting point is 00:11:01 to ten dollar jump yes Yes. It's different. Oh, okay. So anyway, the point is, for you, the end user... Because creators can set their own pricing. Yeah, it's double, but the way that it actually works out is that it is more than double, and the reason for that is that the additional cost of serving 4K is a lot more

Starting point is 00:11:22 than I think people necessarily realize and like bandwidth is hyper expensive and also very difficult so i let's talk a little bit about that because i had i tweeted about sort of my hot take about this whole thing that i think youtube is actually not only maybe justified in doing this but that it also could be the right move for the platform in general, like for the entire ecosystem. So I tweeted about this hot take and I had some people who I feel like

Starting point is 00:11:54 have maybe not the full picture of how this works. Because to be clear, I understand being upset about it. Obviously, I hate when you tell me I have something and you take it away. I'm always reminded of that scene from Empire Strikes Back. I'm altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further.

Starting point is 00:12:23 That's so iconic because we're in this position where whether you're an individual end user, whether you are a creator, where Google holds all the power. If they decided tomorrow that not only was, did they not feel like serving 4K video

Starting point is 00:12:42 to non-paying customers anymore, but they were going to remove it from the platform outright. And, oh, by the way, that semi-archive of content that you've uploaded over the last 12 years, we're going to get rid of all the high-quality copies of everything. We're going to prune it all. They could decide that tomorrow on a whim. They could. And we're utterly powerless. And that's frustrating. And that sucks. Where was I going with this? I don't remember.

Starting point is 00:13:22 that, right, but it could actually be the best thing. And you'll have to hear me out. Really, please hear me out. But some of the responses that I got from people who were upset about it, I feel like we need to kind of talk about those things. So one person that I went back and forth with had said, well, you know, they, what do you mean bandwidth costs, right?

Starting point is 00:13:44 They laid that coax cable 30 years ago. Oh, that's not how that works. Right? Okay, so explain how that works for the people. Google doesn't own all of the, you know, cables that go around the entire internet. Also, all that stuff takes maintenance and whatnot. So, like, if Google wants to send you data it's gonna have to go over isps lines and stuff like that they have to you have to pay for bandwidth at some point google did spin up their

Starting point is 00:14:12 own isp uh in the states which probably gives them some some uh cool abilities to do different things they're on a certain scale that i don't fully understand like once you have date your own data centers and stuff like an ovh has their own dark fiber lines running all over the place and all this neat things like that stuff is beyond my scale of understanding but bandwidth is highly expensive and you have to deal with a lot of other entities like people but talk about some of the other entities that we've had to deal with in order to maintain quality of service for users uh one of the problems that we have right now, I'm going to call out a country specifically that we're actually having problems with. So sorry

Starting point is 00:14:49 if you're having this problem, but in Germany, there's multiple ISPs, right? And the pathways that we're using work great for some users in Germany, and it works really poorly for other users in Germany. We have really good service in Germany. Right. We also have not really good service in Germany. Right. It's not a cut and dry thing. And when you get on this scale,

Starting point is 00:15:14 like there's stories that I actually talked about on WAN Show in the past of Netflix back in the day, installing these red box Netflix servers in ISPs like data centers and in ISPs nodes and stuff, because such a huge percentage of internet usage in these areas was all Netflix. And they were actually helping the ISPs by doing this, like the ISPs wanted these things installed, because it was getting it closer to the users, it was using less of the ISPs available bandwidth, it was helping them in general. Now you think about the usage of youtube and all of

Starting point is 00:15:45 the rest of google stuff um and it gets very complicated and very expensive and the impossibility of trying to cash any any i mean you could take you just scattershot it right yeah you could just hope that you've got something cashed close to the to the to the end user but later that that's a just dice rolls right at that point pretty and like really advanced caching systems are great and stuff like that but like it's all highly complicated highly difficult and very highly expensive and there was also like, like, I, I feel like, um, uh, this perception, right? That once though, once those lines though are laid, that they're, the ongoing cost is, is, is negligible or, or very low. And, uh, this, this individual pointed out that, well, you know, that those coax lines

Starting point is 00:16:43 keep getting faster and there's no additional cost, but it's actually the getting faster, even though you might be running over the same pieces of copper or even the same pieces of fiber, the way they get faster is through ongoing maintenance and network upgrades.

Starting point is 00:17:02 And development and R&D and everything else. That continually get more and R and D and everything else that continually get more and more and more and more expensive because the bottom line is that Moore's law might not be dead, but, uh, more is a little bit more difficult to keep up with. Dr. Moore is struggling a little bit. You know, it's, it's, it's not Moore's law is not keeping up the way that it has. You know, Moore's Law is not keeping up the way that it has. And even if you were to compare to something like electrical or water infrastructure, for example, just because those pipes are in the ground, that doesn't mean that they stop needing maintenance.

Starting point is 00:17:41 That doesn't mean, you know, you don't still have to make sure there's clean water going through them. You know what I mean? Infrastructure that exists must be maintained and upgraded. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, there's tons of costs to it. And something that you go over in the video as well, but I'm seeing comments about it. I'm seeing notes about all this kind of stuff like, oh, we shouldn't feel bad for billion-dollar companies.

Starting point is 00:18:03 I'm the first person to jump on that train, and don't feel bad for them no why would i feel bad for them none of this is feeling bad for them a lot of this is understanding um and not understanding me like oh it's okay it's okay no it's it's the classic thing of a web company that is valued purely on scale and then when scaling becomes difficult or your costs start ramping to a certain degree you need to start making money and often how they start doing that is ugly um and when he says need to start making money i don't think either luke or i would make the argument that google does not make enough money no no no but they do need to make money because if they don't make money on a given project they're gonna do google things and they're gonna shut it down yeah so so yeah it's they're gonna

Starting point is 00:19:02 make it make more money um and 4k is really expensive like we've already talked about yeah um and they have done actually a lot of research figuring out that almost no one actually cares um which is not potentially an uncomfortable thing to hear uh it's something that floatplane ran into um we we had a bunch of conversations with users and with creators. One of the original ideas of Floatplane was like, hey, we're going to offer better quality everything. And that's going to be a huge selling point to the platform. People are going to want to join because their content will have never looked

Starting point is 00:19:36 or sounded as good online. And users are going to want to subscribe because they can see their creator's content in higher quality and they can hear it in higher quality. Which makes a big difference. Audio to matters oh it super does um your your video can look as good as you want if your audio sucks no one's going to watch it did anyone care ever like even once nope we have actually that's not true we have one person who cares garbage time garbage time garbage time cares that it sounds good. And that's great. That's awesome. I love and appreciate that because, boy howdy did we put some work into it, and

Starting point is 00:20:12 it really didn't pay off. Hey, it is now! It is, yeah. It is now. I mean, from like a purely dollars and cents standpoint, I don't think it's paying off. But at least we get to feel warm and fuzzy about it. Yeah, we've stuck to to our guns it still looks and sounds good um and there's people each other like oh i care and you know what you might you might be if i remember correctly from the video

Starting point is 00:20:33 uh that i am probably going to misquote so i'm sorry you might be the what was it 1.5 percent of people who actually care it's such a tiny percentage of people youtube ran some experiments where they started just changing people's settings and they would set them to way lower like 480 i think yeah people that were running at 4k they changed it to 480 and it was like so i'm gonna misquote the percentage i'm sorry i don't remember I think it was like 1.5% of people actually changed it back. So you wonder, you wonder why the, uh, there's no persistent default video quality anymore and why they default to such a low video quality. It's because you are a discerning individual and notice the difference. And I can certainly tell the difference like i i get it i'm with you but my aunt there is no way my sister love her to pieces bless her heart

Starting point is 00:21:36 she wouldn't be able to tell a 480p youtube video from a 1080p youtube video maybe not even from a 4k youtube video she's just she doesn't care it doesn't matter i'm actually i'm actually pretty proud proud of that whole stat because i'm rather certain it happened to me and i noticed because i was like getting really annoyed that youtube kept on looking like junk yeah i'm used to watching on floatplane so i could tell um so i kept changing it back up and i was like what is going on and i remembered that there used to watching on floatplane so i could tell um so i kept changing it back up and i was like what is going on and i remembered that there used to be the default setting so i was like hunting for it and i couldn't find it was like something's wrong um i'm pretty sure i don't know

Starting point is 00:22:13 at all but i'm pretty sure you can teach it i think you can teach it i think so i think if you keep forcing it to go up it'll naturally slowly increase mine i'm pretty sure mine defaults to 4k yeah yeah i've noticed that behavior so if you actually care maybe do it um you know what's annoying to me is that i'm probably going to end up with a ton of youtube premium subscriptions now because all the different depending on which profile i'm logged into while i'm because a lot of the time i'm not necessarily using youtube for leisure i'm actually using it for work i'm i'm checking a video or i'm finding a time stamp so i can send it to an editor or whatever else it is i'm doing and i've complained about this to youtube many times but something about the way that the the

Starting point is 00:23:02 sessions are handled makes it so that when you click out of Creator Studio onto a video, you get served an ad, I kid you not, 100% of the time. Like every single f***ing time I get an ad while I'm working, trying to get something out of my own video. Which, as far as I know, wasn't that against Google's terms of service at some point clicking your own ads I think it always has been like you would think logged into my own account I would not get an ad on my own video because clearly clearly that is self-dealing clearly right and it's this isn't me just saying, oh, well, there should be different rules for me and for other people. I'm saying from a common sense standpoint,

Starting point is 00:23:48 you shouldn't pay me whatever it is, 35 or 45% or whatever of my own ad consumption. Duh, right? But it does. Something that annoys the crap out of me is I use the different like uh google profile things for my browser yes so i have like a work one i have a personal one i have other various work ones get ready to get premium for all of them because otherwise you're gonna have ads everywhere and

Starting point is 00:24:16 you're not gonna be able to watch 4k yeah so like i have premium on my personal one but in the relatively rare occasion that i opened youtube on my work one, it splashes me with an ad right away. And then I have to throw the video that I wanted to watch for work into my personal YouTube, which means that it gets lost from the history. And when I need to find it later, it's annoying.

Starting point is 00:24:34 I'm just like, man, if I'm actively signed into one premium account on this computer, like it's not like I'm sharing it with other devices. It would be nice if it made it so that it wouldn't serve ads on all of them but riddle me this whatever where's your line if youtube said no 1440p and up uh that's premium now what if they said 1080p and up is premium

Starting point is 00:24:59 720 is all is more than anyone should need this where's your Where's the line where you kind of go from, okay, I could kind of understand this from an infrastructure cost scaling standpoint to, no, this is bulls**t. I won't take it anymore. Walk me through your reaction at each stage. So we've already got your 4K reaction. Let's say they cut off 1440p. That's also also very reasonable in my opinion in your opinion okay okay i mean 1440p

Starting point is 00:25:31 is not nearly the increase in data rate that 4k is it's i think it's about double 1080p if i recall correctly that's 2560 by 1440 1080p is two megapixels ish yeah i think it's about four it's like four and change or something like that or close to four so it's about double but it's not 4x which is you know good yeah i i still think that's in a premium tier of resolutions though if i could say that but youtube's 1080p looks like dog crap. It does. So 1440p... But it's also a free platform. Is it free if you pay in your time? If you pay in your time with ads.

Starting point is 00:26:11 So it's only sort of free, right? Like there's... To be clear, I'm playing devil's advocate a little bit here. I don't necessarily disagree with Luke. It's free in the sense that it is broadly available. There's no monetary exchange. Exactly. You don't need to own a credit

Starting point is 00:26:25 card to use it you don't need to be an adult to use it you can be anyone anywhere in the world as long as you don't have an oppressive government that blocks access to it or whatever and you can benefit from the wealth of of creation and knowledge that is on youtube which which is great it's amazing right um but it's not free there's an interesting there's an interesting comment in flow plane a lot of people are saying 1080p is their line um and i see one person who said 1080p should be free because competition said so so here's where i'm going to throw a bit of a monkey wrench in things exactly so this is where my line is actually a lot lower because ultimately I'm going to end up keep continuing to use it because there's content on YouTube that I cannot access elsewhere,

Starting point is 00:27:13 including I've seen an example from you about like fixing a washing machine. I fairly recently had to fix my dryer, my clothes dryer. There you go. How was I going to do that without YouTube? To be completely honest, I wasn't. was i going to do that without youtube you were completely honest i wasn't you were gonna pay someone like four hundred dollars to come and replace some stupid little twenty dollar part yeah that's what you would do the the like coin collection thing the coin collection thing was like jammed and in a lot of them you can access it from the front in mine you can't you have to take the entire thing apart it's a huge pain um and there was like the manual that you could read and i was like wow i'm gonna break this for sure or there's the youtube video of the the dude just being like

Starting point is 00:27:58 all right so i unscroll these things toss it over there watch out for this whatever yeah it's like okay five to ten minutes later i kind of know what to do and i can replay this a million times and it's fine and i would have watched that in very low resolution with ads on it because it's it's that or nothing um lukewarm's a laundromat no i think you meant lint collector or coin collector it's called the coin collector online oh okay i don't know if. It's called the coin collector on mine. Oh, okay. I don't know if it has like an actual name, uh,

Starting point is 00:28:28 on mine. It's called a coin collector. I don't know. Um, cool. Oh, I see what people are saying for coin. No,

Starting point is 00:28:36 it's like, not that kind in the wash, like, like, uh, little bits of things would get like, uh, ejected,

Starting point is 00:28:43 but it doesn't want to go down the water pipe oh so it's like a mesh filter that collects like things i have never cleaned that on mine did you say it was your dryer why does it have water in it is it what maybe it was the washer it's been a while since i did okay do you put water in your dryer because it probably takes a long time to using this wrong yeah that's probably why it broke yeah no sorry it's been like quite a bit so where's your line 720p see this is where it gets complicated because even if it was 480 there are use cases where i would still use it right but what if you were trying to follow a tutorial, like a software tutorial at 480p, and you can't read the bloody text?

Starting point is 00:29:30 But not everything that I would do is watching a software tutorial. I'm also trying to devil's advocate a little bit, but not too much, because with the dryer example, I could have, or whatever it was, the thing... Turns out it was a waffle iron. the closed dude to things machine that i have i would have watched that in in 480 i don't know if it would have been like functional to watch below 480 sure um but like if it's a free thing if when it starts playing an, I can just put my phone down and start grabbing my tools or whatever. And when it's done playing an ad, I can start trying to follow the tutorial.

Starting point is 00:30:11 I'm going to still use the service because there's nothing else out there like it. What is it even called? Daily motion. That's not a realistic competitor. Yeah, I get real. Yeah. So like I. Vimeo has gone far down the,

Starting point is 00:30:26 we are just a paid platform. Yeah, because it makes sense because it's really expensive to serve video. So like, I would love to be like, 10 ATP is my line because below that, it kind of sucks. But no, I'm going to keep using the platform if it's lower than that.

Starting point is 00:30:39 Ultimately, I've already subscribed to premium. So this problem doesn't really affect me. But I think that's true for a lot of people. Transit biker on Twitch says as a person on a fixed income, I find this whole thing as a way of propagating and promoting socioeconomic discrimination, making poor people be stuck with inferior quality is super cringe move at best. I mean, that's what, you know, your your free market is supposed to alleviate. It's supposed to create competition that drives pricing down. The issue here is that YouTube is in a position

Starting point is 00:31:12 where they can essentially do whatever they want because there isn't any competition. That's my whole argument for lowering the bar. And the reason that there isn't any competition is because nobody can make this cost effective. No. And like, we have actually done a lot more work on that than almost anyone else. Like, for real, though.

Starting point is 00:31:39 Not me, like him and the floatplane team. Yeah, yeah. You're the CEO of the company wearing the shirt and so hey yeah it's my float plane shirt yeah um and and and and it's tough i don't have a good answer for you yeah that sucks i mean honestly honestly should there be maybe this is maybe this is a separate conversation but should there be a similar price break for services like youtube premium or netflix or steam games for low-income people who live in high-income countries right like in the so youtube premiums like two bucks in some countries like like two three american dollars a month in america it's over 10 but there are people living in North America who are on such low incomes

Starting point is 00:32:28 that yeah I forget how much it is 12 or 13 dollars or like whatever it is in the U.S. I'm sorry I'm Canadian and I have a family plan so I actually do not know the exact amount this is not me not knowing how much a banana costs I just don't know because I'm Canadian, okay? But the point is that there are people for whom even that two or three dollars could be a stretch, let alone being something that is comfortable for them. So how do we solve that, right? Because theoretically, you know, theoretically, we have different prices

Starting point is 00:33:00 in these different geopolitical regions, but in practice these are extremely coarse and in many cases kind of arbitrary lines i've mentioned this in the past and it's hyper unpopular and i'm going to win no fans right now i've mentioned it on one show i'll defend your hot takes we're playing we're doing some role reversal yeah yeah i've and i know it's like not okay to be completely clear I think the only solution is Government ran

Starting point is 00:33:29 Which is so not okay For a totally different giant ball of wax Okay so Maybe hold on You legislate The availability of 4k youtube like like all the premiumness whatever 4k is a human right i don't know about 4k hold on no no no for real though for real though hold on okay so full full quality no ads 4k in public libraries oh that's sweet so that way oh you can allow free market capitalism and if people

Starting point is 00:34:07 want to have their their private access to to their high quality youtube they can pay but that would make it available to everyone in the same way that you can buy books and you can maintain a personal library or you can go to the public library and you can access them there now to be clear not every community has okay proper functioning community infrastructure like public libraries um especially not anymore now that books are out of fashion and stuff public libraries are changing let me talk about that in a second i need to defend my thing as much people be like that's a horrible idea i know that's why i prefaced it by saying it's a horrible idea. My reason for saying that is because a lot of non-economically viable things basically have to go to governments if you want them to be maintained because businesses are going to go, hey, this isn't economically viable.

Starting point is 00:34:57 And they're going to stop doing it. Yeah. So that's why I say that. Not because I want that. I think it's a horrible idea. There's tons of massive problems with it. It is not cool. But okay, public libraries. I want to talk about that. Public libraries have changed a bunch. There are local public libraries that have tools.

Starting point is 00:35:16 Have you heard about this? No. They have tools. That is so cool. You can go sign out a tool. So that you can like... Go home and work on things. Do maintenance or whatever.

Starting point is 00:35:26 Do maintenance. Public libraries are becoming... They're continuing to be in the spirit of what they always were. Which is communal resources that we all share. Yeah. As an option, you can absolutely buy your own tools or books or... Or books or... High speed. own tools or books or high speed. Or games or movies or whatever.

Starting point is 00:35:48 Now there's a bunch of them that have, they're actually technically pirated, but because of laws around public libraries, they were pirated in a completely legal way. But there's certain libraries, I know of this in the States. I don't know of this in Canada. There are certain libraries in the States that have just straight up pirated games and you can go sign them out take them home and play the pirated game completely legally as long as you like also return it how you're supposed to to the library everything is above board because of laws around libraries specifically libraries are adapting it's very cool i wish i knew more about it.

Starting point is 00:36:25 I didn't expect we were going to talk about libraries on the wine show. Ninja Star and Floatplane Chat is talking about some libraries having 3D printers. Yeah, yes. That's super cool. Yeah, I forgot about that, but that's totally a thing. Yeah, they're turning into like sort of maker spaces.

Starting point is 00:36:39 That's a way that you could have a relatively low impact on Google's ability to run YouTube as a profitable business while also making a real like tangible effort to make this this this amazing resource that youtube is i think we need in all of this we need to not lose track of that youtube is unprecedented yeah it's amazing we have to yeah there's a lot of things wrong with it a lot of warts oh yeah a lot of warts yep i don't agree with everything they do not even close but a world without youtube would be extremely different yes and so i think that figuring

Starting point is 00:37:19 out a way to bridge this gap yeah absolutely has to happen yeah but you can't just you can't just say well it's not fair i should have access to everything on the platform with no ads in the highest quality they're they're they're they're business i i and you know what we could have a way longer conversation about you know capitalism versus other other other systems right sure you know you can have that conversation but within the bounds of the system that we all live in at this point not all of us i guess but we do um well there are limits there are limits to what we can expect right and you're not going to be able to expect a for-profit corporation to just take a loss on something out of the you know good feelings

Starting point is 00:38:13 that it will make for people yeah i mean you can you can hope for that it's not gonna happen yeah you're gonna it's not gonna hold your breath that company's gonna go under anyways so like even if they did do it they're just gonna die um a bunch of people in chat talking about cool things that their libraries have temporary books on kindles and stuff someone talking about uh uh gaming pcs and laptops available for for temporary borrow um that's so cool. And again, it's not every library. And someone brought up a very major issue that libraries in low-income areas can sometimes just suck. I don't know. That's probably fairly legit.

Starting point is 00:38:58 But all I'm saying is that libraries are changing. They're not necessarily just books now. Yeah. They're trying to evolve from beyond that. Trust AFT says their local library runs D&D sessions. That's super cool. Yeah, that's sweet. I just want to point out that Prime Gaming Soviet Rambo in chat

Starting point is 00:39:17 said that putting 4K behind a paywall has already been utilized by um pornographic uh naked sites youtube just copying them again if you if you want to see about uh people copying those types of uh platforms and filming styles look into the evolution of cameras and also look into the evolution of online video existing at all because you owe a lot of it to that a lot more than you probably know yeah wild um on the subject of uh viewer uh viewer interactions here guys don't forget about merch messages uh don't use twitch bits don't send super chats or whatever else send merch messages over on lttstore.com we've got a bunch of stuff

Starting point is 00:40:08 that's back in stock multi-nep t-shirts I think it's the t-shirt that's back in stock we've also got the workshop jacket we've got the short circuit sweatpants that launched recently and we've got an announcement for you guys so if you're in the checkout

Starting point is 00:40:23 you will have the option to fill out a merch message when we're live and our producer dan is going to either pop up your message down here or answer it for you or both it can pop up with an answer or curate it so that it's something that we can talk about later on on the show, we have the original classic lids from our, oh yeah, here we go. So our current water bottles come with these lids, but we are now stocking the classic screw top lids like that one for $5.99. And we have an end of season deal on our swim trunks. We're clearing out our inventory of them at $24.99. So you will see some new swimwear next year. Let me just bring that up for you guys.

Starting point is 00:41:13 I also have one other pretty exciting announcement for the store. And you guys are going to want to move pretty quick styles on that. 40 reviews, four and a half stars. Not bad. Unlike Logitech, do not um conceal the the reviews that are not 100 positive unless they are spam we do remove spam yeah uh here it is all right wait am i am i ready to announce this yet how do i how do i know if it's live that yeah like is he watching okay so okay all right we're doing it we're doing it there are only 69

Starting point is 00:41:49 available that's right we've got another limited edition product sarah pushed hard for this one she was like oh man we should totally do we should totally do a gold controller version of the of the controller character from the abcs of gaming voice yeah she doesn't sound anything like that yeah but it's super cute um honestly speaking guys this is a novelty item it doesn't have alpaca wool in it it um it you know the the gold fabric yeah just kind of like you know crumply and stuff but it's super cute and it's gold it's a gold controller are you wanting me to switch to that camera oh that's not the one loot camp there you go it's gold uh they are individually numbered there will be 69 only

Starting point is 00:42:39 i have no idea how much they cost it's not cheap because yeah it's limited edition and you'll you know they'll be sold regardless of how much we charge for them um and they come with this cute little sticker look okay look it's actually a ton of work to do a product a one-off and we can't in such low run yeah we can't do a ton of volume of something like this because we're not going to sell that many so essentially it's expensive because you're subsidizing the you know the larger production run costs that you would normally have to pay in order to make a product at all because we only made like 72 of them or something like that whatever it works out to to make sure that we have a couple spares in case something goes wrong oh apparently it's 69 69 hilarious uhilarious. It comes with a little golden

Starting point is 00:43:25 controller sticker as well. And then a signed card thing that is in here. I think I'm supposed to sign these on the show. Certificate of Authenticity. 1 to 69 of 69. This is 1 of 69 official

Starting point is 00:43:42 Linus Tech Tips gold controller plushies. Nice. You gotta, I wonder. Classic. You got to make number 69 out of 69 special. We're live on the what now? They are live on the website. Oh, they're live on the site.

Starting point is 00:43:57 Okay. Okay. They're up apparently. There they go. There they go. All right. Why don't we move on to our next topic here? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:44:07 Which GPU do we want? I don't know. Which one do you want to talk about? I want to talk about the ARK, to be completely honest. Okay, let's talk about the ARK. Which one? The Covenant? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:44:19 Survival? No. ARK of the Covenant. Okay. ARK of the Covenant. Let's go. Yeah, yeah. Indy should have opened it.

Starting point is 00:44:28 He was pure of heart enough that he would have been fine. Yeah, definitely. Okay, no, sorry. Because taking artifacts from elsewhere and bringing them back to your home country is very pure of heart. Yeah, that's... Okay, Indy's less of a modern hero. More of a... Yeah, more heroic. Yeah, a little bit with a different different in a

Starting point is 00:44:48 different time anyways intel arc a770 and a750 reviewed and streamed i thought that was cool that was a good idea yeah yeah i thought that was a good idea too that was alex's idea good um after years of exciting announcements and then months of radio silence intel has finally released their arc gpus their pricing the a758 gigabyte is 289 the a778 gigabyte is 329 and the same card but in the 16 gigabyte variant is 349 but there's complications. Yeah. Horrific driver problems. Rebar required. If it's not DX12 or Vulcan,

Starting point is 00:45:31 oh boy, you might not even want to play it. We got some games that were not DX12 or Vulcan that they gamed, you know, they were gaming. Oh yeah, they were gaming on the stream. I didn't watch the whole stream. Okay, yeah. Most things were pretty playable and the problems

Starting point is 00:45:48 that we had on older or lighter games running older APIs the problems that we had were not necessarily ones that every casual user would experience like Alex for example

Starting point is 00:46:03 was finding the wild fps like frame time swings in rocket league unplayable i a rocket league moron i was just gonna say you don't play and he probably does right he plays hard yeah so i was like yeah i see the frame times are all over the place, and it's definitely less smooth than my RTX 3060 over here beside you. Sure. But this would not affect my ability to play this game. You know what I mean? But it could be the same thing in Beat Saber, okay?

Starting point is 00:46:37 You give me those kinds of frame time variants, I'm going to be like, this is unplayable! I'm going to be hurling all over the place. Right? So it depends on your skill level. So if you're a casual gamer, I would say that many games were quite playable. Many were problematic.

Starting point is 00:46:55 I think this is a sidebar thing, but if you remember correctly, the first time in many years that I actually felt my computer performance not being where I wanted it to be was with Beat Saber. Because I started getting into difficulties where it was too fast and i was started to lag yes i was just like it's noticeable this sucks yeah at that at those speeds uh you know nine milliseconds of stutter or whatever and when you're in vr like it's

Starting point is 00:47:22 very off-putting it's not like there's certain games like you know if you can't afford the upgrade you can fight through it it's fine beat saber like no you put that game down you do something else um but anyways back on topic so this raises a lot of questions with all the experience that intel has making gpus and they do yeah right they they've been doing onboard GPUs for like over 10 years now right on their on their CPUs and and and they've even gotten a lot better oh yeah they've made major pushes you know whether it's like iris or like early xe onboard or you know whatever else but they've made major pushes in improving these from actually man no intel's been doing onboard graphics since before that they used to have their onboard chipset graphics too oh yeah intel's been doing

Starting point is 00:48:11 onboard graphics flipping forever so it raises the question if they've made their way all the way through direct x 10 9 8 7 so far back how can they suck at it so much the teams are disconnected or something no it's more interesting than that with onboard graphics one of the main tasks of the software team

Starting point is 00:48:36 is to take as much GPU load away as possible and put it onto the CPU. Anything they can, pull it off that weak sauce GPU, put that on the CPU, put it on those general purpose processing cores

Starting point is 00:48:52 with a dedicated graphics card. Well, it's the other way around, isn't it? Yeah. You want to do as little as possible on the CPU. I mean, that's one of the big innovations recently is allowing the GPU to talk directly to system memory even, right? mean that's one of the big innovations recently is allowing the gpu to talk directly to system memory even right because that's what we want you don't want us to go through that processing unit why are we adding bottlenecks yeah cpus and and that's another

Starting point is 00:49:14 thing cpus used to be like very fast compared to gpus now it's not really necessarily the case we're gonna put a whole computer in your computer hey thanks mumbles malarkey um so that's a big challenge it is also my understanding that hey this is a first gen product right like they're it's very clear from the power consumption the die size um the just like the elaborate design of the card itself even like that's like you guys got to understand that's an expensive cooler on intel's arc gpus there's a lot of plastic molding that went into it it's it's premium, right? That's not the kind of cooler you design for a $289 graphics card. So there's a lot of indicators that Intel intended for this product.

Starting point is 00:50:13 The width of the memory bus, for example, 256-bit. There's a lot of indicators that Intel intended for this to be a much higher-end product, something that would compete more with an RTX 3070. But what it seems to me is that even with the hard work that the software team is undoubtedly doing, there could be some just plain architectural stumbles that were made,

Starting point is 00:50:39 and at some point, Intel had to make the call. Do we re-spin this again to the point where it's going to launch at the same time as the next generation Battlemage, which cannot be delayed, right? So if you guys watched our video touring the Intel fab, which I think you probably did, right? You see that there are actually multiple generations of products in flight, right, at the same time. So if you delay one of them, you can actually end up stomping right on top of its launch with a next generation, way better, way more cost-effective product. We actually saw this happen with Broadwell. Do you remember Broadwell?

Starting point is 00:51:17 The 5775C was the flagship Broadwell desktop CPU. Broadwell was, I believe, a moderate success in mobile. But on desktop, the 5775C launched, and then almost immediately, the 6700K Skylake architecture came out and replaced it. So here we go. 5775C came out june 2nd 2015 okay or at least that's when the article went up on a non-tech and august 5th 2015

Starting point is 00:51:55 uh oh wait may 5th 2020 oh no no yeah august 5th 2015 sky lake launched so like k it had two months of being the hotness before immediately there was a better product so at some point the arc team had to look at it and go well we're either going to launch alchemist or we're not and you know you can imagine how these things work right because the software team is working before there's final hardware. The hardware team is working on the hardware before there's final software. It's a hope and a prayer that any of this stuff works at all, right? So they might have gotten back to silicon, thought, we can fix this in software. I'm speculating right now.

Starting point is 00:52:39 We can fix this in software. Then they get to a point in the software where they're like, holy crap, we need to fix this in hardware. Rinse and repeat, right? Well, you can only go through that cycle so many times before you run out a window for where you're actually going to be able to deliver a product. So I think it is entirely conceivable that Intel fully understands that this is going to be a bit of a limited product, and hopefully they can take those learning outcomes and apply them to Battlemage, apply them to Celestial, which are their upcoming generations of products.

Starting point is 00:53:08 And this is not going to be something where management goes, well, that wasn't successful, let's just kill it. I sincerely hope and I sincerely doubt. Yeah, I'm on board as well. I doubt that that's what's going to happen in spite of all the... I think the rumors of Intel gaming GPU gpus death have been greatly exaggerated if these arc gpus did not have the you know dx12 and vulcan or bust issues how well do you think they would have done a lot better yeah but like is this something you strongly recommend at that price point

Starting point is 00:53:45 it's tough if it again if it doesn't have that problem here's something we ran into during the stream we noticed and i don't know for sure that this is an arc issue uh this could have been an issue with our displays or capture card so don't don't take take this for what it is it's it's uh it's an observation we noticed that when we were cloning our display okay between our capture card and the monitor that i was gaming on we actually had some issues with the nvidia card around this too where it was running at 120 hertz and the mouse was smooth but dragging windows was horrible i don't know we i forget how we ended up solving it we did we did ultimately solve it it was really dumb uh but on the intel side we were getting uh the limited uh limited

Starting point is 00:54:26 gamma value thing so we were in limited mode which is for tvs of like 16 to 235 or whatever it is instead of full range which is 0 to 255 which was causing the stream to look fine because i think that device was expecting a limited input yeah and then the monitor looked like crushed and clipped because it was expecting a full range input. And there wasn't an obvious way in Intel's dashboard to fix that. So just because the performance is okay, and just because we value competition in the marketplace doesn't necessarily mean that I can unequivocally say,

Starting point is 00:55:02 go for it. It's going to be a great experience. You're going to love it. Right? Because if you enjoy messing around with things more than playing games. I can wholeheartedly recommend it. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:55:13 It looks, honestly, it sounds very interesting just to like, that's why I was happy that you guys did that stream. I mean, it's long. I haven't watched the whole thing. It's got timestamps now, so you can just check specific games if you're into that.

Starting point is 00:55:25 I saw that comment. But I was happy that you guys did that because it's just so interesting. Yeah. Like, it's very cool for that fact. But if you want something that's, like, rock-solid reliable and you can play games all the time, eh.

Starting point is 00:55:40 NVIDIA and AMD have a little more experience. I just hope enough people buy them that the whole project doesn't get canned. Yeah, I really want to see Battlemage. I really want to see beyond that. Intel has some serious... I think Intel, to be clear, haven't seen Radeon 7000 yet.

Starting point is 00:56:01 But I think from what I know about their organized organizational structures i think intel is a much more credible competitor to nvidia when it comes to machine learning oh okay compared to amd yeah i was gonna say with the with the whole um i can't think of the name for it right now but like stitched together cores oh oh oh oh oh oh my goodness why is this escaping me as well yeah now you've thrown me off but with that yeah with chiplets there we go i am pretty jeez i didn't know you're going with machine learning but before you're going with machine learning i was thinking the chiplets might change everything up but the thing is that so much of gaming performance for

Starting point is 00:56:43 us to continue to improve from here i don't necessarily think jensen's correct that moore's law is dead but as we talked about earlier it's certainly slowed down and i think a lot of the improvements to gaming performance going forward are going to be driven by machine learning and not just not just gaming for gamers but also gaming for developers right i mean in a world where you can just kind of, you know, make a brown box and then just tell your AI texture generator, yeah, it's wood.

Starting point is 00:57:14 Woo! Right? Like that's a game changer. Oh, yeah. Right? Took me a second. Yeah, it totally is though, actually so yeah i don't know we'll see core dog asks who from ltt is going to buy an intel arc i mean is this one of those things where i should just like put my money where my mouth is

Starting point is 00:57:40 go to memory express buy an arc put it on my mantle just be like okay i walked the walk i just put it on the shelf i don't know if that counts if i i think i've said it before and i would still say it now if i was still buying hardware i would seriously consider it because it's just so interesting. And I would find playing different games and testing them and stuff. I would find that interesting, but that's not going to be for most people for sure. And,

Starting point is 00:58:15 and there are the, you, you brought up last time you brought up the social issues. Like if you can't play some game with your friends. Okay. So are you ready? Yeah. We've been challenged.

Starting point is 00:58:24 The 30 day arc challenge. 30-day arc challenge i'm down are you gonna actually do it this time though i missed it mr i'm gonna install linux on my computer and then play vr games for the entire duration of the challenge not fair i i played vr games a handful of times and you just okay you just avoided pc gaming the whole time though that's a valid result that's a valid outcome that's fair enough it's a valid outcome it was too much work to game yeah i mean it was it actually to be clear state of linux gaming changed a lot since then even like man steam deck is kind of we did know that was likely to happen yes to be fair but i'm glad we tried it before it got easy

Starting point is 00:59:13 mode i'm glad to have had the experience yeah trial by fire man i'm forged ltd labs jake uh says i'll be buying one for my wife wow what are you gonna what throw throw under that i mean yeah wife for now why do you hate your wife hopefully she likes diagnosing why games are hard to play um or or hopefully you know that the game in then in brackets s that she plays um works well on it i guess okay loser shaves their beard that's wow i saw that i didn't want to say because i really don't want to do that well how do you lose though you game on anything other than an arc gpu okay then i think i'll be fine okay i could

Starting point is 01:00:04 i could do it for a month I could do it for a month. I could do it for a month. I've done it before. I've put friendships on pause for a month. Okay, sure. Why not? Ark Challenge. Not this weekend. I don't know if we have enough Arks. But we'll set a start date and

Starting point is 01:00:19 yeah. We'll do the Ark Challenge. Okay. All right. VR included uh crap um it's a game all right all right my deal uh my deal for that though is that i don't want to be the one that has to change the gpus in my computers and put them back i'll do my personal rig i don't want to be the one that has to change the GPUs in my computers and put them back. I'll do my personal rig. I don't want to do like the VR machine or whatever.

Starting point is 01:00:50 Oh, okay. Just because it's like a lot of work and that's not actual content creation. So Dan, can you swap my GPUs for ARCs, please? Sure. Okay. You only have like one computer, right? Nothing complicated? Yeah, exactly.

Starting point is 01:01:02 Yeah. Oh my goodness. No, no okay in all seriousness though i'm not trying to just be a diva when we do videos at my house that actually disrupt my personal setup and my personal life i'm sure and we do it often people often leave my place in a state where if i had done it at work there's two or three hours of putting things back to the way they were that is typically handled by the writer or by logistics or whatever else that like shouldn't actually be a ceo task that just gets dumped on me when we do things at my house like it's actually kind of unfair so that's my that's my only requirement i'm not gonna lose i'm not gonna lose neither we're both way too stubborn so it like doesn't really matter

Starting point is 01:01:52 what the stakes are neither of us are gonna give up before 30 days yeah i would never give it up or let it down hey we should probably uh never give up talking about our sponsors yeah man we've got a lot of topics to get through good gravy we're gonna do show and tell luke hasn't seen an rtx 4090 in person yet yep and we brought all of them yeah yeah do you want to see all the different i also actually haven't seen anyone holding one i haven't watched a video or seen a picture of anyone holding one i have heard anecdotes of how big they are. Prepare to prepare yourself.

Starting point is 01:02:27 Yeah. All right. Cool. Let's talk through some sponsors, though. Thanks to Collide for sponsoring today's show. Traditional endpoint security tools can make your workplace feel like a surveillance state, turn users and the IT team into adversaries, and ultimately drive your employees to work on unsecured personal devices. It doesn't have to be this way.

Starting point is 01:02:44 Collide is a device security solution built around honest security. Their philosophy is that employees aren't your biggest security risk, they're your biggest allies, and your relationship with them should be based on transparency and informed consent. Collide works by notifying your employees of security issues via Slack and provides step-by-step instructions on how to resolve them themselves. For IT and security teams, Collide provides the right level of visibility for Mac, Windows, and Linux devices, and it can answer your questions about your fleet security that traditional MDMs just can't.

Starting point is 01:03:11 You can meet your security goals without compromising your values. Visit collide.com slash WAN to figure out how. If you follow that link, they'll hook you up with a goodie bag just for activating a free trial. That's K-O-L-I-D-E dot com slash WAN. All right. You want to see someE dot com slash when. All right. You want to see some 4090s? Yeah.

Starting point is 01:03:28 All right, I'm going to go get them. You want to talk about some notes? Sure. Mm-hmm. Where is the topic? Some 4090 notes. The public has received their first glimpse of the 4090s.

Starting point is 01:03:44 I'm intentionally not looking up right now. And they are big news. Literally. They're huge. While the Founder's Edition is shorter in length than the 3090 Ti, it is thicker and wider. And some add-in board cards are comedically large, apparently. The Asus ROG makes the already massive Founder Edition card feel downright reasonable. Jace Two Cents did a size comparison video.

Starting point is 01:04:08 I'm sure he did. Where he compared it to the PlayStation 5. What? I'm still not looking up. That's crazy. He also tried installing the Asus card in the Leon Lee Landcool. J again? What?

Starting point is 01:04:30 Oh, I don't know what this is. J again. Some Leon Lee Landcool case. Okay. And it looks like it won't fit in any smaller mid-tower cases. In many. With many. Luke's tired.

Starting point is 01:04:42 Yeah. I'm also dyslexic um power usage board partners have announced their recommended psus for the 4090 many are using the same 850 watt psu suggestions as nvidia but asus and gigette is recommending a 1200 watt minimum. Okay, let's begin. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. This is a 3090. Okay.

Starting point is 01:05:12 Okay, let's begin with a 3090. I have also never held or actually seen in person one of these. And that is absurd. Yeah. Oh, hey, Dan, do you want to do the camera? Let's play Luke show and tell for a little bit here okay so i've i've been saying for a long time a little little joke about how gpus are just little computers inside your computer um because they like totally are if you look at

Starting point is 01:05:36 them in an architectural way lift up a little higher this weighs about the same weight as a little computer okay so just you can stash that right here and I'm going to get you a 4090. Who do you want first? Do you want Colorful, MSI, Asus? To be fair, it looked a lot bigger when you sold it. Or Zotac? I think we just send it. Go with Asus.

Starting point is 01:06:00 Okay. Okay. First of all. Still in the box. The package is your first hint. Yeah. Okay. That's a pretty all, still in the box. The package is your first hint. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:06:07 That's a pretty, uh, it's a thick box. Sure is. Thick box. Okay. We're going to do a little live unboxing for you, ladies and gentlemen here,

Starting point is 01:06:14 here on the WAN show. Okay. Uh, there's some discussion topics, by the way. It is, it is, I will say it is a little shocking.

Starting point is 01:06:22 Like I've, I've seen a lot of people holding 3090s. I knew they were huge. But seeing and holding one in person, it is massive. And I haven't seen the 40 one yet. Oh, my goodness. Oh, my God. What the heck?

Starting point is 01:06:53 my poor old like gtx 260 i bought back in the day would just be embarrassed um it doesn't feel like it's the same thing this is a 30 90 for comparison here if we gotta get it a little higher for the message no dan don't chase us higher than the merch messages. Cover it. Go down. Go down slightly. Yeah, you're good. There you go. Look at that. Okay.

Starting point is 01:07:09 And thickness. Look at the thickness. What the heck is going on here? Like that is, how many slots thick is that, Luke? Is that three or four, three and a half? I think it's over three. Yeah. Over three slots. Three and a half or four. Yeah a half I think it's over Three Yeah over three and a half or four Yeah yeah Absolutely wild you know what hold on

Starting point is 01:07:31 While you unbox the next one While you unbox the next one I'm gonna run and grab Something a little more reasonable for scale I'm gonna go grab a 1080 Okay Here I'll give you the next one what do you want next Uh just hit me with anything doesn't matter Zotac okay

Starting point is 01:07:50 Big box big box. These are crazy. These are crazy Just the cost in like metal That'd be quite a bit How do I open the box? That's a way. That's okay. I don't feel bad for being confused by that now. All right.

Starting point is 01:08:15 Card looks sick, though. It does look cool. It's also literally the size of a computer. I have to lean away from the mic to do this so I apologize oh my goodness hi he's back yeah and like that wasn't a small card

Starting point is 01:08:41 no no not even a little okay here we, here we go. Here we go. Okay, okay. Like what? Like here, thickness. Look at this. This is not a small GPU. No, not at not at all this is a 1080 it's kind of big

Starting point is 01:09:08 actually like it was relatively long yeah and it's like where's the length difference between these like look at the look at the amount of like you said the amount of metal yeah on this thing it like this end i don't think you can see it quite as well i'm gonna angle it there i'm gonna angle it like that it looks like a spaceship yeah it's just huge yeah like i think when i was holding the 3090 up to it it was hard to tell the scale but you gotta understand the 3090 was already ludicrously big. Yeah. Ridiculously big. Yeah. Okay.

Starting point is 01:09:46 I'm pretty sure, yeah, I'm rather certain, just the heat fins on here, just the heat fins, are bigger than the entire 1080. Okay. This MSI Supreme doesn't need an unboxing because it's already unboxed. I think this might be even thicker than that one. Yeah, it's shorter, but I think it's thicker. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:10:08 Here, let's go like this. Hold it like this. Oh my gosh. Oh my goodness. Yeah, I think mine's a little thicker, Luke. Oh wow. Yeah. You know, you gotta deal with what you got. I just, I can't even, you know. Okay,

Starting point is 01:10:23 there's one last one here we've got a colorful eye game here we go ready maybe just yeah just toss that down there that's fine yeah I'm sure it's fine okay here we go

Starting point is 01:10:43 is this like did you save this for last for a reason? No, no, I don't even know if this one's the biggest. I got the bottom. Okay. Yeah, there you go. Man, support braces are just going to be necessary. Yeah, do they ship with them? I don't know

Starting point is 01:11:06 I hope so No, not now that I'm not holding it in a weird way Hold on, let's bring our 1080 back Oh no That's ridiculous Yeah I mean mean to be clear um these are 1600 gpus you know uh for most people this is a non-issue um or for your pro gamers out there you know i guess you gotta you might need to think about upgrading your

Starting point is 01:11:45 your your system you're good dan time to uh yeah what about uh you know ltd store gpu support braces i just you know you're buying one of these maybe you can afford one in like pure gold or something yeah there's there's so many different cases and and honestly so many different of these gigantic gpus that i wouldn't even know i wouldn't even know where to begin to try to build a universal one that's why i'd be surprised if there wasn't one that came in the box to be honest oh oh wow there's a liquid cooled one back there too a supreme x from msi it's just this is wild man uh our founders i think is was supposed to make its way over here after they were done filming dan did it never materialize over there no no no no you're good you're good you're good it's okay it basically looks like the 3090 but bigger it's ridiculous find a mini itx motherboard and plug it

Starting point is 01:12:43 in i know right there's gonna be there's gonna be builds where the gpu is gonna do that larger than the entire rest of the computer including like a giant an nhd 14 you know that's that's pretty wild anywho they were i think that's the first time that I've ever felt a personal computer component that wasn't a case. And been like, wow, this is genuinely heavy. Yeah. Like it's never been a thing before. That's crazy. Yeah, I can see that.

Starting point is 01:13:16 How big is too big? That big. I joked in my unboxing of one of them on Short Circuit. I joked that it feels like a matter of time before your GPU just takes up all seven slots and it's like just a big module that you plug in. Are we heading there? It feels like it. It genuinely does.

Starting point is 01:13:44 Would that matter? What other PCIe cards do you need and the rest of the computer is trying to get smaller and more uh like data traveling distance efficient and stuff like that um like with with drives coming onto the motherboard and stuff it's going to turn into the situation where you have like this this weird module that you plug your gpu into and that's your whole thing why don't you just plug your computer into your gpu yeah basically seriously though have dedicated power to the graphics card stop calling it a card the graphics unit it's crazy i mean that is what the u and gpu does stand for yeah i know i know but but it's not card that's what i'm saying yeah um that's wild i don't know um i didn't necessarily know how i would make that that would make me feel and and now that i've held them i i still don't know but they're absurd insecure i don't want one

Starting point is 01:14:37 which is a weird reaction i think but like that thing's ridiculous i don't like i don't think i've ever held a computer component and immediately been like this is unnecessary as hardcore as i just did there is no reason this thing needs to exist in its current form at least for me i'm sure there's some people that'll do some crazy things with them that need every little tiny bit of power they can possibly get i know there's applications like that modded out you know sure yeah yeah or like machine learning applications or some type of whatever um but like wow how much does one of those weigh like do you have you have that stat? I actually don't know, but a lot. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:15:26 Let's see. ASUS 4090 weight. Let's see if it's listed here. Might not be because why would you bother include that with a graphics card? But it matters now. Oh, yeah. Okay. So it's, yeah, 3.6565 slot might as well just call it four but yeah it's it's not quite four technically

Starting point is 01:15:51 right um not quite four yeah they don't list weight here as far as i can see maybe they do i just yeah maybe they should start yeah because it seems like it's getting kind of necessary it might actually matter yeah five pounds someone said that's a lot for a graphics card yeah yeah crazy so here's something that i'm kind of struggling with a little bit lately there was a comment on my airpods pro 2 video by the way for those of you wondering uh i was swiping on both sides to try to go back it didn't make it into the cut but i did try both sides i do know the correct swipe for back gesture on ios um i kind of went on a rant about the some some unintuitive to me elements, elements of iOS.

Starting point is 01:16:47 I get very frustrated by the absence of a back button because having a universal way to go back just seems very obvious to me. And there's one comment in particular that I was kind of sitting there going, you know, I'll just show you guys on the doc because I put it in there. It's like, is it me? Or is it the children who are wrong?

Starting point is 01:17:09 Basically, the quote was, it's obstinance not to do things that are better for the user. That's what I said in the video. And this is the response. Just say you, Linus. You're not every user. Just because it's something you don't like

Starting point is 01:17:22 doesn't mean it's the correct way. You do this nonsense with every video about iOS, mac os and sometimes linux if something isn't the way you're used to doing things then it's incorrect as if he doesn't do with windows 2 also the back gestures on the other side like i said i know that i tried both ways it wasn't working um if it isn't the way i'm used to then it's wrong you have a massive sense of entitlement so i guess i'm trying to figure out how to reconcile this because on the one then it's wrong. You have a massive sense of entitlement. So I guess I'm trying to figure out how to reconcile this because on the one hand, it's my job to advocate for things that are better. And from my point of view, there are things that are objectively better. You know, one of the ones

Starting point is 01:17:58 I always come back to, even though a lot of people still don't really seem to appreciate the value of it is T9 dialing. T9 dialing is objectively faster pull out your phone i'll pull out my phone at the same time i will be done calling before you are done it is actually faster and the best thing about how it's faster is that it doesn't interfere with any of the other ways of dialing. You could still dial by numbers and have things autocomplete like that, or you could still look up a contact list. So my way of dialing, which is objectively faster, also objectively does not interfere

Starting point is 01:18:38 with however you want to do things. I don't see that as a sense of entitlement and so I guess I just I get kind of I get kind of lost sometimes because I'm supposed to be saying yeah here is something that would make this better I was in a piece of software where there was no obvious visual indication of how to go back to where I was before. And yeah, it frustrated me because it often frustrates me because there are often situations where, no, Apple's way of handling back on iOS is not always consistent. Sometimes it's a swipe back, except when it isn't. Sometimes there's a thing up in the top left corner except that's obviously

Starting point is 01:19:25 a bad place to have it because most of the world is right-handed meaning that most of the world holding their phone in their dominant hand has to reach all the way across it all the way to the top in order to activate that or use a second hand. It seems to me that it should at least be an option to have back somewhere where you can actually reach it without reaching a second hand over to your phone. And I don't, I guess what I, what's challenging for me is I don't know why that bothers people.

Starting point is 01:19:57 That I should think that that should be a choice. I mean, it got zero replies and zero likes yeah it's not the only reason that I'm bringing it up it's not the only one that I've seen like this and so I guess I'm struggling a little bit because I'm not sure what to do should I not speak my mind then

Starting point is 01:20:17 no should I just let it go should I let go that Apple doesn't have a back button even though it's wrong should I let go that they don't have T9 button even though it's wrong should i let go that they don't have t9 dialing even though they could probably have a dev implemented in literally an afternoon people are people are going to get annoyed um i think you remember like way back in the day when somebody sent me a death threat because i reviewed something negatively um not

Starting point is 01:20:41 that i ever thought it was like real um i'm not saying that but like people are going to get really defensive about stuff and if this individual person is hyper used to it so due to their familiarity yeah disagrees um they might find a different way to try to explain that where they seem i i don't know. They might be using that feeling to justify this approach, but you're a reviewer. I think you have to do that type of stuff, and you're going to

Starting point is 01:21:14 lose some people because of it. But that's fine. They can just go find a reviewer that feels more similarly to how they feel. Someone says iOS has T9 dialing. Are you sure? When did they add it? If that's true, you would just made him a happy man. Uh, no, they don't seem to have it. Uh, you can get a third party app, like a third party dialerer it doesn't count yeah that's no no so ios does not have t9 dialing also especially when you have gigantic borderline unlimited development teams

Starting point is 01:21:51 like companies at this scale um are able to have i'm not necessarily saying they do but are able to have um i think an option even if quite buried would be great. I think the average user is not going to change defaults on practically anything, especially if you don't prompt them or let them know that it's there. So if you have some menu that's like navigation options or something, and you throw swiping from the side

Starting point is 01:22:22 will always go back or whatever right as an option in there i think that's a easy solution that hurts no one so why not do it yeah i don't know i i went through something similar when i um i forget which car review it was but i complained that it didn't have uh it didn't allow you to set cruise control under i think about 50 kilometers an hour and the use case that i brought up for that was school zones and the number of people who were very angry at me for thinking that that was just an obviously good feature was kind of it it took me by surprise like they were extremely angry because i should be paying attention to the school zone and not in cruise control. Right.

Starting point is 01:23:07 Like, like I'm, I'm serious. I'm actually not overselling how, how angry some people were about, about this. And I was kind of looking at it going right. But if I set my cruise control at the right speed, right at the beginning of the school zone zone then what i can do is i can not be watching my speed because i don't have to worry about on the road a speed trap or anything like that i can be at exactly the right speed not only that but i can take my foot off my accelerator and i can cover my brake pedal it makes a lot of sense to me objectively better yeah and and so Better. Yeah. And so is the problem the way that I am presenting it? Is the fact that I say it is objectively better,

Starting point is 01:23:53 is that the problem? Maybe, but I still don't necessarily think you should change that because- But people are still misunderstanding. I thought I explained it so clearly who watches their feet while driving nobody nobody's talking watching your feet what are you talking about i so i don't think you should concern yourself with people that interpreted everything you just said as watching your feet okay that's i think that's my argument uh i think

Starting point is 01:24:23 there's always going to be people that hearing incorrectly I think there's always going to be people that take A countering stance For whatever reason I think you just got to ignore it And keep pushing forward But apparently my point is moronic Speed should not be locked on in a school zone Why not Do you not drive the speed limit

Starting point is 01:24:44 It's also not locked. If he brakes... Yeah, I'm covering the brake. I'm like, I'm ready. I'm dialed in. It doesn't keep gassing while he's braking. Do you not know what cruise control does? Maybe that's a misunderstanding.

Starting point is 01:24:58 We both come to that conclusion at the same time. Yeah, maybe that's the problem. It's not gonna... The car isn't gonna keep trying to go at the same speed if he breaks it's gonna let him stop it's not gonna keep going yeah no there's no there's still people like really really misunderstanding this how gigantic is the school zone that you would engage cruise control it's not about it's not about the it's about covering the brake yes it's about those like fractions of a second of time that it takes to move your foot from the accelerator

Starting point is 01:25:25 to the brake in an emergency situation the likely it's it's not about the the speed limit it's about the situation that you're in and the desire to have a higher level of awareness defensive driving exactly it's not about whatever you guys are talking about. Someone in the full-blown chat mentioned, it's not autopilot. Yeah. Yeah. It's just setting a speed. Yeah. I don't know. I just... Okay. So I think what we need to talk about then is how do I present these things better? Right? Someone in the full-blown chat said, LOL, Linus, you're letting yourself get trolled so hard.

Starting point is 01:26:06 This is a problem. No. I hated when trolling and trolled entered the lexicon of internet speech because it's such a scapegoat for such trash behavior by so many people. The amount of people that I am 100 certain were totally serious and then figured out that they were just totally ridiculously wrong and then went oh i be the

Starting point is 01:26:35 trolling is very high it gets used for that yes there's legitimate trolling i have engaged in it he engages in it daily i am 100 certain um and it can be very funny and like entertaining whatever when used in the right way but like i don't think this is that yeah and i've seen a lot of um takes that without an utterly um unfamiliar type of logic, just could not possibly be conceived of as a troll. They just are really, really, really bad. Like the road's going right and they turn left, right? And as someone who's read, I promise you,

Starting point is 01:27:26 a hundred times more YouTube comments than you have, right? I've seen everything. And you can, there's like a spectrum of likelihood that someone is trolling. And sometimes, no, it really isn't that. It actually is just not getting it at all. Like, why would it occur to someone to troll about something as sensible as I would like to have my foot covering the brake while I'm in a school zone just in case a kid runs in front of my car? Why would you troll about that?

Starting point is 01:28:01 It's like trolling someone because they're like, yeah, this cup shouldn't have it shouldn't let water through the bottom what no it should like i it's not funny so i maybe that's maybe that's it i don't know so then what do i yeah guilty logic you're you're right people think criticism of a product they use is criticism of them but if i recall correctly it was the review of the chevy volt so i don't think a lot of people were using it oh man whatever i'm volt gang so someone said and i don't know how true this is

Starting point is 01:28:41 or anything but laddie says psychologically breaking a little is perceived as more significant than lifting off the gas a little the argument is that when driving through those situations people tend to slow down a bit more which is safer but on cruise control they won't break enough they won't break because it doesn't feel enough to break for what don't know what does that even mean i think they're saying that you are less if you see something happening you're less likely to break than to slow down if you're unsure if the thing that is happening is uh dangerous for you to be going your current speed at towards like if you see something moving behind a car uh-huh i think they're saying that you're less and you're like oh they could dart out to the street or it could be a kid or whatever

Starting point is 01:29:31 you're i think that they're saying you're a terrible terrible driver i agree okay yeah but i think that's what they're saying so i've come to a complete stop because some kid was playing behind a car and i just didn't trust it yeah i don't know maybe i uh maybe i i don't know uh anyway there's a lot of people asking what the devil t9 dialing is uh basically think about it like autocomplete while you're dialing a number, okay? So except that normally if you're, you know, if you live somewhere and have acquaintances who live near you, you would all have kind of the same area code, right? So you might type in 604, and that's going to autocomplete 80% of the people in your address book, right?

Starting point is 01:30:22 So that kind of autocomplete for dialing is not super useful. So I feel like the way most people probably dial these days is either through pre-programmed favorites, where you can just hold one of the buttons or whatever and dial them, using their voice control or going into their contacts list, searching or scrolling and calling someone from there. T9 dialing is amazing because what it lets you do, unfortunately, I can't really show you my screen because the numbers show up as part of the

Starting point is 01:30:50 preview, is instead of dialing the number, you dial the letters. So you know how on your dial pad, there's little letters that correspond to every number. So if I wanted to call Luke, wanted to call Luke, I just type 585 and swipe. It is fewer interactions. It's really, really fast. And it means that even if I have a ton of contacts, it's no more than three to four interactions right on the dial pad, and I can immediately call someone. That's why it's good. It takes away absolutely nothing from anyone else's preferred way to use it. And like I said before, and this is why it's so frustrating to me, it's like not allowing people to put icons

Starting point is 01:31:34 anywhere they want on their desktop, right? It costs Apple nothing to implement it. But they don't because why? I don't know. Oh, someone's saying call Luke is too hard. Well, a, that's, I mean, it's what you want to use voice control all the time. No, no, it's not always appropriate. And voice control is fricking terrible.

Starting point is 01:31:56 I was going to say, I never use it cause it tends to call the wrong person. And that's really annoying. Okay. You guys want to hear me go off on Google instead of Apple. This is fun. Watch this. Okay, here we go. hear me go off on Google instead of Apple? This is fun. Watch this. Okay?

Starting point is 01:32:06 Here we go. Call Jake Tivey. Sorry, who do you want to call? Look at this. Call Jake Tivey. Calling Jake Tivey. Mobile. I said the exact same bloody thing both times the first time it goes jake tv now the way it should work is google should take that uh should take that input right and it should go hmm jake i understood is there anything that could be kind of close

Starting point is 01:32:47 in this address book to tyvee and it won't do it i've got i've got another really good one this one feels like the um this yeah it feels like the searching in windows problem where when you search in windows if it's not 100 certain it immediately just immediately just bings it. And it's like, hmm, maybe you should have looked at local files. Okay, this is a really good one. Call Hoffman. It's going to be like Hotman or something. Which would you like?

Starting point is 01:33:19 Got a bunch of Google results for Hoffman and Sun Limited, Rob Hoffman Realtor. It's trying to Google Maps him somewhere. You want to know why? Because Hoffman's name is spelled with two N's at the end. All you have to do is check what's in my f***ing address book and find something kind of close. Do you know how often I try to call my wife?

Starting point is 01:33:45 And I am kind of close. Do you know how often I try to call my wife? And I am not able to. You'd think it would contextually, you know, AI who I usually call and figure out who I'm talking about. So there's someone named Yvonne or some business called Yvonne something that if I just say call Yvonne, occasionally it'll dial. So if I don't pay attention, which is dangerous when I'm driving and stuff, right? If I don't pay attention to what number it says it's calling, it'll call this other random thing probably one out of every ten times. But it gets even better. Okay, easy solution. Call Yvonne Ho, right?

Starting point is 01:34:18 I'm sorry. There's no number for Yvonne Home. There's one that's real close. Someone in chat said, yeah, it should prioritize your local contacts. Yeah. Yeah, of course it should. It's the same thing as the Windows search problem. It's the exact same issue.

Starting point is 01:34:37 So this is the kind of stuff that I just, I don't know how to handle, right? Because other than getting angry about how obvious this problem is and how obvious the solution is and staying angry forever because it's still not fixed um isn't it my job to i think there's always going to be a certain minimum amount of alienation uh because people are going to uh misinterpret disagree, and disagree is completely fine. Like someone might think that not prioritizing looking at local files on Windows and not prioritizing local contacts

Starting point is 01:35:17 when trying to voice call someone is the right way. I'd be very interested in hearing that argument, but considering they both work that way, that argument's got to both work that way that argument's gotta exist somewhere I have no idea how it makes any sense but it's gotta exist somewhere and guys maybe they disagree adding nicknames like wife or like changing people's names in your contact book to no that that's a bad solution that's a stupid solution that's a manual solution in an automated world like that's not how it should work

Starting point is 01:35:46 you can tell google who your wife is and call say call my wife um no that's no i respect your opinion but i believe that google with their experience could probably engineer a superior solution and yes I'm aware that you can say call Yvonne home mobile the problem is that sometimes it just doesn't sometimes it'll still do the home it'll it'll grab the word home first the one that really makes me more angry than anything is when I'm dictating to the google assistant and it hears me just fine it is exactly what i wanted call james stride and then it's like sorry can't find james strobe or what because it because it just doesn't know that name and it's like no no phonetically you were fine everything was fineetically, you were fine. Everything was fine.

Starting point is 01:36:48 And then you were like, oh, surely you couldn't have meant that. Even though I have a contact in my contact list that matches what you had perfectly. You would think you would check, right? Because like fuzzy logic, right? You would check the 90 and then the 85 and then the 75% certainty interpretations. If they prioritize local storage or, in this case, local contacts. The second you say call as your prime first word, it should immediately prioritize local contacts. But, yeah, I feel like I've said the same thing like a billion times, but same as the Windows problem. I feel like I've said the same thing like a billion times but same as the Windows problem

Starting point is 01:37:23 it just it the Windows one is almost worse because even if you have a perfect match it will first look online and then look local so if you type it and then press enter quickly it'll just Bing search it which is so annoying yeah that one bothers me

Starting point is 01:37:38 but yeah I don't know but yeah I don't know I think you just gotta keep doing it and I think you would just keep doing it anyways I don't know. But yeah, I don't know. I think you just got to keep doing it. And I think you would just keep doing it anyways. I don't think it matters. Yeah. In Uninfamous, Alex says, I believe it's in how the message is delivered.

Starting point is 01:37:53 People will always expect you to come to them. So you stating that something is objectively better, even when it is, can come across as arrogant or otherwise. You know, I think that's fair. That's probably fair, but I don't necessarily think you should change it. Well, what is it?

Starting point is 01:38:08 You catch more flies with honey than vinegar or whatever it is. So do I just have to like be nicer about it? Sometimes you don't want that fly to have honey. Should I just say your stance that Apple should not build features that are better for some people is valid, but I respectfully wish that they not build features that are better for some people is valid but I respectfully wish that they

Starting point is 01:38:28 would build features that are better for some people Is it valid though? I mean it's valid to them No I mean I don't know man People might not appreciate my stance on all that but I just I don't know I think sometimes you lose not appreciate my stance on all that, but I just, I don't know.

Starting point is 01:38:45 I think sometimes you lose people and I think sometimes it's worth it. Meet Ready to Yeet says, I'll play devil's advocate here. Having a name at all is a manual solution in an automated world. So adding wife in the relationship box is the same as putting a name in the name box.

Starting point is 01:38:59 Disagree. Actually, a lot of my contact list is automatic because I use Google for work. So yeah, it gets populated by... by yeah it just gets populated yeah um and the more that we can automate the better so any excuses that we make for not automating things properly i think is just a setback right like why are we why do we accept it yeah yeah like if i email someone and they email me back i don't actually know at what point in that chain this happens but if there's email exchanges with someone they're added to my contacts and just it happens yeah i want that that's good cork 1947 says no

Starting point is 01:39:37 f the haters accessibility and inclusiveness is something that every dev should strive for anyone who disagrees is wrong. Okay, but I'm not going to win any friends that way. No, but I agree. It's great. I need people to like me. Yeah. Or at least tolerate me. Sometimes, as someone who works with developers on a platform, sometimes it is very technically expensive to incorporate those things.

Starting point is 01:40:02 But we are currently talking about a platform that is at a scale where their technical powerhouse behind it is immense. And they could absolutely do these things. And it wouldn't be a big deal. Right. All right. What else we got to talk about today?

Starting point is 01:40:21 Oh, man. Do you want to talk about the Mario movie teaser trailer? I haven't even watched it I actually haven't If we bring it up we're immediately losing monetization It's Nintendo No no no we don't have to show it We can just all watch it together guys

Starting point is 01:40:33 We'll just post the link in the chat We'll do a bit of a timer Yeah and we'll just all press go Here let's watch it together I haven't watched it yet either Okay so I'm throwing it in the Twitch chat You got floatplane chat? Yeah we're not going to have audio Aren't we? I mean but we can't play it yet either. Okay, so I'm throwing it in the Twitch chat. You got floatplane chat? Yeah. We're not going to have audio.

Starting point is 01:40:46 Aren't we? I mean, but we can't play it through the stream. We can just look at it. It's fine. It's fine. It's fine. All right. Ready, set, go.

Starting point is 01:40:59 Oh, good gravy. It's over two minutes long. Yeah. Oh, man. I don't know if I want to watch the whole two minutes. Okay, so there's some magma. What's the difference between lava and magma? I forget.

Starting point is 01:41:12 One of them's underground. One of them's not. Cool, thanks. So it's lava then. I think so. Well, lava is definitely the one above ground. I know that. Okay.

Starting point is 01:41:23 Okay. Okay. Big castle right next to the other castle. Well, lava's definitely the one above ground. I know that. Okay. Okay. Okay. Big castle. Right next to the other castle. Sup, Magic Koopa? How you doing? It's kind of surprising they didn't do a Mario movie before, now that I think about it.

Starting point is 01:41:38 They did. Did they? The Mario Brothers. It's, like, horrible. It's live action. A movie? I thought they did. I know about the TV show. Oh. I didn't know it was a TV show. Maybe it's just a TV horrible. It's live action. A movie? I thought they did. I know about the TV show.

Starting point is 01:41:46 Oh, I didn't know it was a TV show. Maybe it's just a TV show. I don't know. Who is this? This isn't the... Oh. Hmm, penguins. Let's go.

Starting point is 01:41:59 They're going to lose. Yeah. And stuff. I kind of see this coming. Yeah. Yeah, okay. Okay, so it's going to be predictable, but And stuff. I kind of see this coming. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay.

Starting point is 01:42:07 So it's going to be predictable, but that makes sense. That's okay. Oh, I liked a little, the little fur. Cute. They don't have realistic penguin teeth, but that's probably good. Cause that's terrifying. Bowser kind of looks like an old man. And he breathes fire.

Starting point is 01:42:27 He doesn't breathe fire like that. Yeah, he shoots fireballs, doesn't he? It was a movie. Apparently it was a movie. Or there is a movie. I don't know. Maybe there's also a TV show. Wow, great lighting.

Starting point is 01:42:41 Maybe there's also a TV show. Wow, great lighting. I first noticed this with How to Train Your Dragon. Having cartoon characters in like two realistic looking fantasy environments is kind of jarring. It's a little weird. The third one. Showing the like kind of like

Starting point is 01:43:03 the mushrooms look like they're plush What the heck They look like they're fabric Okay and that's it Alright Official teaser trailer I think the kids will like it Bowser could breathe streams of fire

Starting point is 01:43:19 In the OG Mario games And in 64 That doesn't sound right In the OG Mario games I thought it was Fireballs. In the very first one it's Fireballs. I know that much. Yeah. And I don't think he throws any fire anything

Starting point is 01:43:34 in Super Mario World for the SNES. I don't remember Super Mario Bros. 3 though. He also said 64 and I didn't play it. Oh, I can't hear anything so i don't get to hear the voice you must hear chris pratt play chris pratt uh i don't think i need that i'm sorry guys i don't need it i'm good but yeah that's a thing it happened chris pratt's mario voice is

Starting point is 01:44:00 just chris pratt oh riley says it seems like he might be able to be trying to do a slight New Yorker accent like, hey, I'm walking here. That seems like an oversight. Why didn't they just get the Mario guy to do the voice of Mario? Yeah, he's still alive. This has been weird the entire time.

Starting point is 01:44:18 Oh. And I think it's probably really weird for him as well. Because, again, he's still alive. Yeah. It's not like they couldn't get him to do it because again, he's still alive. Like, it's not like they couldn't get him to do it. Okay.

Starting point is 01:44:28 Our discussion question here is more than an hour of that voice might be a little much. Um, but is Chris Pratt's regular speaking voice too far in the other direction? Uh, probably I would think. probably um all right in other news overwatch 2 had a pretty rough launch this week have you played have you tried to play i guess this is a more valid question tried to play i have not played um yeah very funny very not surprising given that it's Blizzard and this

Starting point is 01:45:06 is how every single game that they launched goes. Um, but yeah, Overwatch 2 launched October 4th, sort of. Players were stuck queuing with tens of thousands of other players. Blizzard president Mike Ybarra initially tweeted that they were experiencing server issues. He later tweeted that they were experiencing a massive DDoS attack. There are known bugs, many of them. Some are very bad. There's a known bugs list. There was a beta. I don't know why they bother sometimes if they're not going to do anything about the things that were found in the beta. There was four hours of downtime Thursday evening during primetime. That is specifically when I tried to play. Hooray.

Starting point is 01:45:48 Very cool. Cues are apparently still really bad. Even without the issue, some critics are still upset at Overwatch 2 just in general. This has nothing to do with the launch problems. They're saying that it's basically Overwatch 1 with a couple of very minor feature updates. To be fair, they literally told you that um like doesn't it not cost extra no it doesn't yeah and they said that the like the multiplayer is going to merge in and like you wouldn't have to pay for it uh in order to play like i think

Starting point is 01:46:17 you gain like single player stuff if you pay for it's one of those types of things which people were praising at the time and they got it and it wasn't different. And now they're upset. I don't know. Um, there's not much of a graphical update. Uh, as far as I've heard, it's basically like it's six hours later. Like every map that is like sort of nighttimey is like kind of morning and every map that was nighttimey it's like, or you know what I mean? It's just every map seems like it was pushed slightly further in the day um the battle it's a battle pass instead of loot boxes which I mean maybe that's better pick your poison I guess maybe it's not um the pve mode got delayed I didn't know that this is basically the the only true new feature of Overwatch 2. As far as my understanding was back in the day,

Starting point is 01:47:09 that's why they did it, that they were mentioning. And now it's delayed like Halo's campaign co-op. I'm sure it feels very similar. The cosmetics and their pricing has been heavily criticized, as per usual. There's a rare skin that costs three or a rare skin costs 300 coins which will take over a month to acquire and legendaries cost 1900 so you're spending many months if you want to get a legendary okay is this me being out of touch why do you care just

Starting point is 01:47:38 use the default skin yeah let's go i agree um i well i also don't want like ridiculous priced things for people that are going to buy it but yeah I just I wish people would default skin more often um and I think it's like ridiculous and stupid and should be frowned upon um when anyone criticizes anyone else for not having skins in video games because like wow that's the probably the least valuable purchase you can make in your day um other than okay actually that's very not true there's a lot of other things that could be worse but anyways it's not great uh there's a discussion question windows 11 was a free upgrade from windows 10 is blizzard doing the same with overwatch but worse seeing as as Overwatch 1 servers are shutting down, so you're required to upgrade if you want to keep playing the game? I don't think it's necessarily that much worse, because I don't think it's that different.

Starting point is 01:48:35 The whole argument of the game has barely changed means that I don't think you can really complain too much that Overwatch 1 servers ended. I do know that player teams went from six to five so if you had a friend group of six people that all played overwatch that sucks a lot um i didn't see like that too particularly in any part of the notes but i think that's going to be quite brutal i think they went to five because basically every other game is five so it'll make it easier for friend groups of five to transfer over to overwatch um that makes sense and you can't really have you can't really maintain the competitive balance at five or six yeah but then if they didn't it's gonna be rough make many changes to the maps anyway then maybe it didn't matter yeah maybe it never mattered i don't know yeah i i find the launch issues to be

Starting point is 01:49:26 funny just because it's such a blizzard thing um every launch they're like what we got d-dossed like every other time no way in fairness that's probably a really big DDoS because people really hate Blizzard. Yeah, with good reason. So, there's that. Yep. Okay. Yeah, playing games on launch, as fun as it sounds, if you're not ready for this type of issue in the modern day, it's going to happen with basically everybody. It's going to happen with like basically everybody. It's pretty crazy. I do find it interesting that old school game launches went a lot better in a lot of cases

Starting point is 01:50:11 because it was a lot more common for old school games to have dedicated servers. Yeah. So it like wasn't really much of an issue. So if there was a problem, people could just spin up another server and it would be some nobody spinning up the server so nobody would think to attack them they're like yeah yeah either your individual server gets ddos or if there's too many players i mean well your server just filled up and you as an individual if you're the server host you probably have reserve slot so you don't care yeah no big deal yeah i don't know it's

Starting point is 01:50:42 interesting canno 403 and floatplane chat goes how did i not notice the move from six to five players i don't know i yeah maybe it just didn't matter uh oh in other news i completely forgot to put this in the doc but we did a review of the starforge systems creator pc i actually did watch whatever that thing was called and one of the your video isn't the number one yeah well i searched for oh okay okay uh one of the creators who is actually behind Star Forge PC, Asmongold, I think that's how I pronounce that, did a reaction stream watching the review. It appeared he's either an excellent actor or it appeared that he was doing it live, raw, hadn't seen it before, and discussed sort of the criticisms that I had, as well as the praises that I gave to the system. So it's funny to me that that actually has more views

Starting point is 01:51:53 than the original review. That's a little different. I think that's what he does sometimes. Yeah, so that's a thing that happened this week. I'd say that it is probably worth a watch. Have you watched it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've watched it.

Starting point is 01:52:11 I think that I wouldn't have done it any differently from him, but he was very quick to declare victory when I said anything remotely positive. I think that makes it fun though it is and and what he's trying to do is make an engaging stream right so like so if if you if you say something positive he's gonna try to cut you off before you potentially make it negative celebrate and then if you trash on something it it you know it makes the story more interesting. Sure. It makes sense. And I think that, but I will also say that he seems to be taking the criticism very seriously.

Starting point is 01:53:00 So to his credit, and I don't know much about the rest of the ownership group. In fact, I don't know much about him either. It's just not really a space that I participate in. To his credit, and hopefully the rest of the ownership group, they seem to be taking the issues that we had very seriously. And, you know, hopefully they're in this for the long run. I still believe what I said at the end of that video. that video. There's risks associated with buying from any brand new company that is still kind of trying to figure out what they're doing. Sometimes it can go very right. Sometimes it can go very wrong. So wish them the best of luck. I also stand behind everything I said about how challenging this business model is. It's really tough. It's really tough. There's just not, there's not that much money in it. And there's costs that will be cumulative. There's costs that will pile up over time. As soon as you've got 100 systems out there, someone is going to call support every day.

Starting point is 01:53:58 And that's not something you're making money on. Once you've got 1000 systems out there, 10 someones are going to be calling every day. And that's not something you're making money on. Once you've got 1000 systems out there, 10 someones are going to be calling every day. And that's not something you're making money on. And so these are just costs that all of a sudden, you're kind of sitting here going, well, yeah, that really wasn't part of our calculation when we were selling these things. But now we're just carrying these on an ongoing basis. And I know that there's a lot of other boutiques that will, that will, that will talk to these people. And we did a, we did a tech support. Hmm.

Starting point is 01:54:28 That video hasn't gone up yet. Okay. We shot another tech support stream and, you know, the kinds of things people will call in about can be simple, but very time consuming in some cases, you know, multiple reboots or, you know, reformatting something. And if you're trying to provide good customer service, you can't just abandon them. Right. And so it's, it? So it's tough. It can be time consuming.

Starting point is 01:54:46 It can be expensive. I wish them the most of luck. And my final word on the subject is that the logo is 100% a **** balls. There's simply no doubt. I mean, it even has, have you seen the logo? Oh yeah. It even has like an asterisk kind of

Starting point is 01:55:07 behind the balls which is you know here i'll mime it out for you what that probably is uh wow yeah wow yep wow so Wow. So I don't make the rules. Yeah. I don't decide what is or isn't a one of those. And it was obviously done with intention. But I do find the trying to play it off as if it wasn't entertaining. It is entertaining. Which is, I am certain the whole point.

Starting point is 01:55:43 But, yeah. I mean, we can hope here for those of you who are not familiar with what the logo looks like for Star Forge systems, hammer. Really? Oh, totally. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:55:56 It's just, you know, it's like Thor's hammer. So the, the handles kind of, you know, proportionate to the size of the hand and you've got the block down there and it's called Star Forge. So there's a star in the middle of the flat side of the hammer

Starting point is 01:56:09 uh yeah yeah yeah yeah it's a penis rocket yep okay cool i'm glad we settled that once and for all What's next? We should do some merch messages Yeah Stop Dan Yeah Are you typing away? You're up I'm typing away

Starting point is 01:56:36 Let me just cancel this one You can be responded to later Yeah, we got quite a few here today This one's from Nathan Any chance of getting Floatplane app for Android TV and VideoShield? So far, those are the only ways I'm able to enjoy most long form content. Sort of.

Starting point is 01:56:54 I kind of just want to leave it at that, to be completely honest. We have a bit of a plan for fixing some of those types of things, but I haven't actually really started working on it yet. So I don't want to talk about it too much. Because the second you talk about those types of things, people expect it's coming out next week. And that's definitely not how anything works. So yeah, is there a chance? Yes. Soon? Probably not. This is a good question from John S.

Starting point is 01:57:25 Sorry, this one just came in, so Dan hasn't had a chance to curate it yet. But do you guys see big tech using peer-to-peer to alleviate the cost of bandwidth in the future for higher quality video? It technically makes a lot of sense. But? But people don't want that.

Starting point is 01:57:50 And there's an analytics issue you lose control over knowing exactly what is happening on your network on your network uh which is why the the what's what's it called hub and spoke or whatever model is uh remains dominant there's a lot of reasons why when a lot of those types of yeah quality of service with that is hard yeah there's there's a lot of very significant hurdles doesn't make a lot of sense bandwidth wise sure absolutely but it's been thought about for a very long time and i think if it was genuinely the right thing to do, it would have been done. Okay. We want some more. Last week, Luke mentioned how you built out a CDN

Starting point is 01:58:32 for Floatplane. Usually I associate this with type of development with companies the size of Google and Cloudflare. How did a company your size go about it? Proprietary, don't talk to me anymore. It's much difficult to you. Very hard, yeah. about it proprietary don't talk to me anymore it's much difficult to you very hard yeah um we started running into i i had some guidance from some people that used to work at twitch

Starting point is 01:58:56 that's as far in as i'll go as with that um about some things that we might run into and yeah sure we definitely ran into them um and And they suggested at the time that we don't pursue doing that at all because of the issues that they ran into. And yeah, those are definitely issues that we ran into is all I'll really say. But our whole idea from the beginning was that we didn't want to be beholden to one thing. So we had to have a internally set up cdn that would at least technically work so that we would always have a fallback was it the best no could it even be was it even the most cost effective no no but it worked and if we really have to we can go back to it right now it's not so we don't use it so much we Uh, we use it for some things, but not for everything, but honestly,

Starting point is 01:59:45 the entire float plane project as a whole, um, could have a giant question mark on it of how did you ever think you could do this with a team? Um, that isn't 10 to a hundred times bigger. Uh, 10 would honestly be relatively small. Um, and it's, we've been trying really hard. Uh,'s really really good uh i strongly believe in each person on the team i think they do a fantastic job i think they are often harder on themselves than i am uh sometimes to the point where it's a problem um but they try really really hard all the time i I don't know. The effort is really high.

Starting point is 02:00:28 You heard it here first. The floatplane team is a bunch of try-hards. Yeah, pretty much. Because I think the personal care and investment from the members of the team is really high. I mean, is it worth sort of explaining to people who don't fully understand what the difference is between just having a server and having a CDN? A lot of the problems behind CDNs, we talked about this earlier in the show, is ISPs.

Starting point is 02:00:56 So if you plonk, and we ran into this like immediately, if you just plonk a server in Europe and you're like, we have a server in Europe. That's enough, right? All the Europeans can connect to that server. Yeah, it's close. That's great. It has a big fat pipe. It's not that far. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:01:13 It's the internet. It's fast. It's fiber, you know, whatever. Yeah. Well, except what if one of the people that is trying to access data off that server, also known as watch a video, is on an ISP. And the route between that person all the way through their ISP onto whatever lines eventually lead them to your server. What if that route is junk? What if somewhere in there is a problem? And okay, so we're trying to set up our own CDN. But we don't have our own data centers, because we're nowhere near that big. And we have

Starting point is 02:01:44 nowhere near that amount of money. So we're going to plunk into other peoples. Well, what if that data center isn't super interested in fixing the problem? What if that ISP isn't super interested in fixing that problem? Age, you just mentioned congestion. There's tons of issues along the way. And a lot of them are fairly out of our hands without doing immense amount of further investment. In some situations, even with immense amount of further investment, without partnerships with these different ISPs, without partnerships on a lot of different levels, it's really hard and basically only works at immense scale. Another big difference is that a CDN is going to have more than just

Starting point is 02:02:26 origin servers, right? So it's operating with a greater degree of complexity. You're intelligently caching the content that people are most likely to need as close to them as possible, while keeping the main repository of your content in a consolidated central location or locations. content in a consolidated central or location or locations so it's more complex essentially there's a big problem yeah so one of the one of the early projects that we made um was like a multi-cdn system so that we can switch which one we use uh because one of the very important parts from the beginning was that we wanted to be able to, you know, maybe we have some downtime if this has to happen, but there's a path every time. If someone cuts us off for whatever reason, there's a path. We know what we have to do. If our CDN cuts us off, we know what we have to do to get going again. If our server host cuts

Starting point is 02:03:20 us off, we know what we have to do to get going again. There might be complications there, but I think that's fairly reasonable and it's never actually been a problem, which is great. us off we know what we have to do to get going again there might be complications there um but i think that's fairly reasonable and it's never actually been a problem which is great it's very cool yeah okay moving on let's see got another one from adam here hi linus and luke linus from your experience at ncax do you have any advice for someone early in their career as a spend category manager, specifically for someone working in the electronics slash electromechanical space?

Starting point is 02:03:54 I don't know. Don't f*** up. Good advice. Don't order too much. Don't order too little. If you order too much or Don't order too little. If you order too much or too little, cover your butt. I don't know.

Starting point is 02:04:10 Like, right. It's just it's your typical like corporate desk job politicking. Right. Like it's if you're if you're decent. Right. If you're if you're pretty good at what you do, then, yeah, it shouldn't be. It shouldn't be a major problem to get the hang of whatever it is that you're buying and buying the right amount of stuff. Be organized, you know, that's something that I wasn't always good at, but it was something

Starting point is 02:04:34 that I strove to do. I think that's the best I can really offer you. Sorry. Okay, this one's from Daniel. Love the show and all you guys do. With labs rolling out, how do you all you guys do with labs rolling out how do you think you guys will move away from using direct links to products in video descriptions and instead link to labs pages that show up-to-date recommendations for that type of product

Starting point is 02:04:54 i think that is a good idea i didn't think of it personally yet um but i think it's a it's a most wonderful super extra good idea like links to labs and then labs to the actual products yeah with that said i know that youtube is working on more features where you can shop directly on the video like from within the video player and so it might not always make sense to link back to a labs page that could end up being an overwhelming information dump on people. So depending on the product, that might not be the most sensible thing. Like if we do a roundup and we're like, this is the best one. That's all the information you might need at that point. So maybe we just link to that product and it's all done with.

Starting point is 02:05:43 Hard to say, but that's a good idea okay got another one here from alan uh what do you think about having vr headsets that offload as much as the weight of possible to hang around the neck uh and on the shoulder like some bluetooth headsets uh psrc firetruck merch when okay well no promises for any fire oh dang it dan no promises for any firetruck merch uh i think that that would really restrict the mobility yeah i think there's i think there's a lot of issues with that actually uh also i think they would move more yeah i, I could see that. They'd have a higher potential to slide around and move more.

Starting point is 02:06:29 I think we just need them to get lighter, plain and simple. I don't think there's any way around it, guys. Okay, this is from an anonymous. Sorry, we've got a bit of a dan's really far away so there's a bit of a line delay um you know when we're talking it's kind of like on the news you know when the one person finishes talking and the other person's like absolutely yeah thanks dan it's been great having you on the show um um okay sorry go ahead yeah it's nice to be here Okay, this one's from Anonymous

Starting point is 02:07:08 What are you most afraid of In the coming decade? Nuclear war? No, no, no, not like Three months, like decade Nuclear fallout? Nuclear winter? Other more different nuclear war My children's generation Having Nuclear fallout? Nuclear winter? Other more different nuclear war.

Starting point is 02:07:34 My children's generation having no idea what to do with themselves in a world that is full of automation. It's going to be really difficult. I know there's this whole thing where like, oh, the older generations always look down at the younger generations and think they're weak or whatever. I'm looking down and being like, you guys are going to have a hard time. Like, yikes. Yeah. Yeah. It feels like we're trending in the other direction. So, yeah. Okay. This is an interesting one. This is by Peter. Hi, L and L. I wonder how differently LMG and MKBHD operate. LMG with 80 plus workers and multiple sponsored videos a day. MKBHD with a small team, irregular videos and hardly ads. Why the difference?

Starting point is 02:08:18 Okay, well, there's a couple things. First of all, we do not have multiple sponsored videos a day. Boy, would that ever be profitable. Oh, I think I see what you mean. Okay, so I was drawing a distinction between a fully sponsored video and a video with a sponsor message in it. So yeah, I guess we have multiple videos a day. Marquez has a relatively small team.

Starting point is 02:08:38 Not as small as it used to be. Like, boy's hiring. They're hiring over there, you guys. But yes, a much more irregular schedule, fewer sponsorships. I mean, they're just different models, right? Like the Mark Rober model, right, is very different from either of us. Every single video, that dude is swinging for the fences. Like if he doesn't get 30, 40, 50 million views, I suspect his sponsors and partners are gonna feel shortchanged.

Starting point is 02:09:20 You know what I mean? Whereas We're Built, more along the lines of like, hey, we upload, you can't set your watch to LTT, but you can certainly set your calendar. We upload every day on a schedule. There's no shortage of ideas. If anything, we don't have enough time

Starting point is 02:09:37 to make all the videos that we want to make. So you can count on us to have videos coming. You can count on the quality to be consistent, but you know what? Whether it's due to the sheer volume or whether it's due to the more niche nature of our subject matter, it's not going to get 30, 40, 50 million views. You'll expect somewhere in the neighborhood of 1 to 4 million views, something along those lines. And you can adjust your expectations accordingly. By the way way because we know what

Starting point is 02:10:05 our inventory is going to be a year in advance you can set up a retainer and you can kind of schedule out what you're going to want your quarterly spend to be coordinate that with your launches and whatever else it is that you need to do and and that's the way that we kind of roll it as for marquez i mean I don't have any insider information into how they're structured. Obviously, we sponsored a video with him recently, and the process was really not that dissimilar to what it's like for a sponsor to sponsor a video with us.

Starting point is 02:10:37 So I think they're just, you know, maybe not swinging for the fences like a Mark Rober. It's still a more niche kind of subject than what Mark does. But I think that Marquez does tend to stay a little more on the mainstream side of tech. And I think that, you know, they're just they're doing what works for them, right? I don't know. Not everyone aspires to do what we're doing here, even if they could. There's advantages and there's disadvantages to doing things different ways. Like I think the grass is always greener on the other side. At Creator Summit, I ran into a lot of,

Starting point is 02:11:17 you know, one person bands, um, you know, and I, I would look at them kind of enviously sometimes, right? Like here they are, they don't, no one's calling them, you know, and I, I would look at them kind of enviously sometimes, right? Like here they are. They don't, no one's calling them, you know, there's no one's asking them for direction. Um, they're, they're, they're a monthly overhead is basically nothing. If they decide to take two weeks off, they just are not working for two weeks and there's no, there's no cost associated with that other than an opportunity cost. and there's no cost associated with that other than an opportunity cost. But then, you know, they look at me and they go,

Starting point is 02:11:51 wait, you posted a video five minutes ago? We were talking five minutes ago. I'm like, well, yeah, I mean, we've got like the team still in the office. They're doing that, you know, and that to them is like mind blowing, right? Like, wow, that would be amazing. But something i learned very early on is that the worst way to double your output is to hire twice as many people it just does not work like that there's just something inherent about building out a business that adds bloat and adds inefficiencies and adds communication problems, HR issues,

Starting point is 02:12:27 especially as you scale. And every time you kind of reach a new milestone of growth, uh, these, these problems compound, right? Like there are, I've had so many conversations that I would never in a thousand years have expected myself to have. I'm not going to get into any of them right now because I think people will know. You'll know who you are. But yeah, it's very challenging. There's no... It's kind of the beauty of YouTube.

Starting point is 02:12:59 I know I've talked a lot of negativity about YouTube over the years, but you can kind of do it any way you want. The only thing that matters is the result that you are creating content that people want to watch. And I think that we have a very different audience from someone like a Marquez. I think we have a smaller audience that is accustomed to tuning in daily, whereas I think he has a broader audience that may or may not tune into every single video. And you can see that in the variations in viewership from, from one video to the next. Um, and either way works, right? Like it seems, he seems to be doing all right. I'm definitely doing all right.

Starting point is 02:13:46 Yeah. That's your cue, Dan. I thought you were doing the camera. I'm using the camera as the cue. Okay, whatever then. This one's from Anonymous. I work as an engineer full-time and have thought of starting a side gig

Starting point is 02:14:04 and slowly transitioning into that full-time if it thought of starting a side gig and slowly transitioning into that full-time if it is fruitful what practical gotchas would you keep an eye out for what would indicate the side gig is mature enough for a full-time transition money money yeah is it enough money to support yourself it doesn't have to be the same amount of money you're making now but you have to look for that trend line. Is it heading toward what you're making now? Will what you're making now scale more and move out of reach? Does it make you happier? Does it give you more time at home with your family, for example? And most importantly, is it enough to support yourself? I would add in proof of concept first.

Starting point is 02:14:47 yourself i would add in proof of concept first don't try to whatever it is that you're doing don't try to make the final thing first and then after having done all of that investment see if it's viable that's a really good point you should do something just something anything just to find out if maybe you're the kind of person who just you might not even want to get motivated yep like if you don't have an office to go to and people to talk to yeah you know what i mean like maybe you just won't feel like getting out of bed even though there might be some waste involved it is worth putting your toe in the water first instead of just diving in yeah okay i got another one here from eli hey guys first time merch buyer here with dlss3 technology on the horizon what do you think that ai enhanced technology could take gaming in terms of performance

Starting point is 02:15:34 visuals etc i think it would be really interesting to see uh like procedurally generated assets in a game through ai like you know how i talked about before the idea of game development where you just make a brown cube and then say this is wood yeah and all of a sudden you've got like uh like a like a wooden crate box you know right or something like that um yeah you could add more to it you could say like wooden chest yeah yeah i i think it would be really interesting because you know one of the things that's really immersion breaking for me in particular and to be clear i'm not i'm not saying that this is a big problem and i am so bothered by it but but it does break the immersion for me when i notice duplicated assets if i walk into a grand ballroom and i

Starting point is 02:16:24 notice that every single candle is exactly the same asset it can be a little immersion breaking dungeons and video games are a classic version of this yeah like oh they made four models for stone bricks like every every skyrim or not every skyrim dungeon but like a huge portion of skyrim dungeons are the same path but different like textures and stuff yeah so i think it would be super cool if instead of actually building out the individual models, there was a game developer

Starting point is 02:16:52 or game developers or an engine developer that made AI an integral part of the game itself. So when I say procedurally generated, I don't mean like the layout of a dungeon i mean the look of it yeah so so the developer damp or or yeah the developer would say it's it's damp it transitions this way it's it's uh it's gloomy it's granite it's it's this it's that and and you would you would just kind of you

Starting point is 02:17:27 could go into each one i think it would be cool because you could make like enormous enormous games and i really do i really do enjoy games that have uh like a a sense of a vastness a sense of scale and exploration i think that's something that is going to continue to work better as we get technologies like direct storage in our games, you know, on PCs and stuff like that. You know, being able to seamlessly roam from one environment to the next with no loading times and just, you know, go out in front of a verdant field. I think it might be, it could be kind of cool yeah

Starting point is 02:18:06 like if every rock in a field was a bit different you know so that i think that deduplication of assets would be would be super cool yeah there that's one that's one idea has anyone done that like guys let me know there's been forms of it you could do it through procedural textures yeah but i think that i think that ai could probably do it better like if you really just put down white spheres and we're like these are all skulls i i think it could be done. Like high resolution skull models. Totally. Should be.

Starting point is 02:18:48 Like with current technology, I think it'll just, it would take a while for that to become mainstreamable. Yeah. People keep on saying No Man's Sky. I don't think it's quite that. No, no, no, no. I think what you're talking about is like asset mutation almost.

Starting point is 02:19:03 Like a developer would do one skull and then you would say this skull is longer, and it has more teeth, or it could just modify it in different ways. You're talking about like the input stuff that's happening to recent AI. Exactly, but you only have to do one, which would be kind of interesting. Yeah, okay, moving on. Hi, Linus and Luke. Been watching since the NCIAC days. Yeah. Okay. Moving on. Hi, Linus and Luke. Been watching since the NCIAC days. What non-AAA hidden gem game that you would recommend everybody play or at least try?

Starting point is 02:19:33 It's hard to recommend games to everyone. Yeah. I feel like especially these days, to be completely honest, unless it's like a Mario platformer, it's, you know, usually they're a little bit more specific. One of the ones that I enjoy throwing out there is Golf Story. I've done it a bunch of times though it's very fun uh if you are not interested in golf games it will still be fun it's not exactly a hidden gem game but i'm really enjoying battle block theater with my son that's cool yeah it's fun nice oh minecraft Minecraft? I've got one from Peter. Hey, Almanel. I'm a student studying computer hardware security. Watch and vote it. Focusing on RISC-V.

Starting point is 02:20:09 RISC is good. Introducing you to RISC-V. So many years ago, how long do you think it will take for RISC-V hardware to go x86 level mainstream? Man, this is going to be one of those things that doesn't age well, but I don't know that anything will ever go x86 mainstream. Yeah, this is asking about if RIS if risk 5 is ever going to go mainstream it could go mainstream oh dan was muted sorry guys uh the question is um how long do you think it will take risk 5 hardware to go x86 level mainstream i don't know that it will i think it will go mainstream i think there being other things that exist will limit it from being able to go to the same level of mainstream but in a different

Starting point is 02:20:49 way i could see risk five being more of a competitor to arm like we could see risk five you know dominate low cost iot devices we could see risk 5 move into the data center um i don't know that arm is going to make it in well i mean apple's making it work but like it's still niche i don't want to say never but given how long it's taken arm right and? And we could think that maybe the life cycle would happen faster. But I think we're a long way away. Hey, Linus and Luke, what piece of media or technology from your childhood

Starting point is 02:21:39 were you nostalgic for until you went back to it and realized it sucked? Pilot Wings is not as good a game as I thought. It's good. It's very basic. I think it's not that things were sucked, but they were definitely more basic than I realized. Like I was, turns out, pretty easy to amuse as a kid.

Starting point is 02:22:07 I think the scale for things has changed a lot like you can even see that with movies like an explosion that was like huge and crazy back in the day is like nothing compared to what they're throwing in modern Marvel stuff I don't know I feel like I've been pretty realistic with things like even with

Starting point is 02:22:23 Morrowind I was gonna say Morrowind even with Morrowind. I was going to say Morrowind. Even with Morrowind, I've told people to not go back and play it. Yeah. Because like... But did you ever have a moment when you went back and realized it sucked? No. No? Okay, so you always knew it sucked? I did go back. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:22:37 I would go back to it and be like, yep, these are all the reasons why this game aged really poorly. And it's just like, i still love it because i played it back then but i think it's really hard for people to get into now because it has a lot of these uh these uh rough points uh battle block theater was the title of the game i was talking about no i think everything that i enjoyed as a kid is exactly as awesome as i thought it was even the album Aquarium by Aqua. Yep. Slash S.

Starting point is 02:23:10 That is just a good album. It is a good album, though. I will support you on that. It's actually an excellent album. Yeah. Okay, moving on from Eden. Thank you for the quality content. Have you ever thought on trying to somehow get your hands on an AWS's Graviton processor.

Starting point is 02:23:25 I think it'd be interesting to see what the cloud vendor's custom processor has to offer. The thing is that unless we went out and wrote software for it, we wouldn't be able to do anything with it. Like, yeah, it would definitely be cool to just like take apart a Graviton server. But that would be kind of it. We wouldn't be able to talk about much more than the hardware and why it's really cool and interesting that Amazon is building

Starting point is 02:23:49 their own hardware. Yeah, I don't know. You want to build a float plane for Graviton? No. Yeah, me neither. Okay, from Anonymous. Starting from the tiny production that you did, would you say that there was a point where you looked around and it felt like things were going to be okay? i still don't know if things are going to be okay

Starting point is 02:24:07 yeah uh was there an increase in daily happiness comfort that came with stability it sounds like it's just been sad for years well not sad but stressed yeah i don't think that's stopped there the the the the more stability we have at the base of this organization the more stability we have at the base of this organization, the more things we continue to pile on top of it. Right. And then, you know, if we think of it like, uh,

Starting point is 02:24:31 you know, if we think pyramid, like, uh, like a corporate structure right at the top of that pile swaying in the slightest breeze is me. If anything goes catastrophically wrong, you know, it all comes tumbling down. is me. If anything goes catastrophically wrong,

Starting point is 02:24:45 you know, it all comes tumbling down. Probably not. But the stability is constantly increasing. But that doesn't stop me from, you know, seeing a day of viewership being down or store sales being down and going, this could be it.

Starting point is 02:25:02 This could be the death spiral. I feel like, i feel like i feel like pretty much any business leader is going to feel that way um because that type of thinking is probably what got you to where you are um but there there i there is objectively very significantly more stability these days than there was at the beginning i don't know yeah definitely yeah okay this one's more of a demand than a question uh from oliver pick an upcoming tech you are both most excited for we both have to be excited for it i think it's individual but we will let's make it it has to be one you're gonna collaborate for yeah ar i mean yeah but that's such an easy answer because we both have the memory of a sieve

Starting point is 02:25:47 yes so i just need it to tell me who i'm highly important for both of us yeah like what their birthday is what their interests are yeah yep um more rgb i think no yeah i mean yeah better electric i think i'm kind of over it rgb yeah i'm not gonna lie i think i'm kind of over it RGB? I'm not going to lie I think I'm kind of done I don't know the land room that we set up recently It was pretty cool It is pretty cool The kids like it I set up RGB strips along the outside of the girls bunk bed

Starting point is 02:26:19 On each level So instead of having a reading light They just have an RGB strip that shines out against the wall And like they love it It was fun to set that up for them That's cool I don't know like it's one of those things where it totally has its uses For sure

Starting point is 02:26:33 But it can definitely be overdone Yeah You're both excited about more RGB? I think we dodged the question We can move on Well I think AR realistically But I do agree that it's a bit easy for us

Starting point is 02:26:48 because we both, yeah, for the same reason. Sure. This is from Cosmo. Hey Linus, you mentioned that you won't review the Pimax VR headset because it doesn't fit you. I'm wondering if you would consider giving it to another member of your team to review. I have a Pimax 5K and I'm absolutely loving it and want

Starting point is 02:27:03 more people to know about it um yeah i mean i guess nothing would prevent anyone else from reviewing a vr headset i have been the one who has done our vr reviews in the past so no one else really has any experience reviewing a vr headset you need a lot of context to review vr devices um i don't know i could just take another crack at it maybe just suck it up princess and wear it it's fine it's yeah it was fine other than being horribly uncomfortable sounds for me for my kingly nose here grand deluxe deluxe size special edition okay review is done uh we've got one from quinton for linus what technologies if any do you use as parenting tools um 5 360 network level parental controls yeah i use google's family link and then i use microsoft's vastly inferior windows parental

Starting point is 02:28:07 controls mostly our systems in the house are unlocked and the kids can use them they're pretty good kids we haven't really had any problems with that yet i think that's about it okay i got one here from adam what's the coolest concept you've tried and failed to figure out how to make into a video oh i mean man i've wanted to do a redux of like whole room water cooling for a long time and it just has not materialized i'm actually bringing up the the dock right now the ideas dock yeah i'm sure i can find some stuff i wonder if that's one of the like oldest still consistently used google docs i think so yeah of like anyone because that's like very very early google docs and it's still being used uh the longest cable

Starting point is 02:29:01 conversion is one that i want to do like convert a signal as many times as you can. So you start with like a DisplayPort port on a computer and then you go to like HDMI and you convert that to VGA and you convert that to like composite, convert that to component, convert it back to HDMI, convert it back to DisplayPort and then like plug into a monitor. It's just, it's like utterly pointless, you know, it's just because we can.

Starting point is 02:29:25 It sounds fun, but. Yeah. But like, does anyone really need to know? Oh yeah. This is kind of a cool one. Just like owning an EV kind of sucks. And it was inspired by some difficulties that Brandon had had with Tesla that my in-laws had had with Tesla that some of the other EV owners here had had with their electric

Starting point is 02:29:42 cars and just sort of talking about the challenges. I think everyone talks about how amazing it is, but there are downsides. I don't know. There's so much stuff in here, man. It's like, it's literally hundreds and hundreds of line items. Uh, I had the idea of a series called, I can't believe they made this and it was just going to be just like wild stuff. And there's, there's a few kind of ideas that are in here for this. I, Oh, I want to do a replacement on, of like a motherboard socket show why it costs a hundred dollars, even with all the appropriate tools. If you bend the pins in your motherboard socket, like to, to get it replaced, there's, there's just so much stuff in there. There's just so much stuff in there.

Starting point is 02:30:25 Okay, from Eric. Given how far LMG has come and all the milestones you didn't think it would reach, has it made you predict and plan for the future in new ways? I don't actually, for all my doomsday prophesying, I don't actually think it's just going to disappear tomorrow anymore. So I do plan for the future. That's a big difference. Like I think in the early days, I was afraid to make multi-year investments because I didn't believe that the company would necessarily still be there. I think I put on a brave face, but we probably knew.

Starting point is 02:31:02 Yeah. It's pretty, yeah. Remember that job offer I got from, I think, Western Digital, like shortly after we started up and I was like, hmm, this might've been a good thing to just take. I'm glad I didn't. This worked out great. Yeah. But it was not a guarantee at that point in time.

Starting point is 02:31:23 Yeah. At least now you're not naming drive killers but um i still remember when and we're still using it i i i'm not gonna name the service but there's a service that i bought a bunch of credit for because it was on like some crazy like word where our company exists now and i was confident they were going to exist due to the people that were behind it and i bought a bunch of credit in it for floatplane and we're still riding on that credit because it was such a ridiculous discount oh seriously um and i was so confident that we were going to like exist for a long time and i remember thinking that and being like this is different especially because float planes chances were a

Starting point is 02:32:06 lot lower oh yeah the discount was crazy though right i've told you about this like way in the past yeah i just don't want to go into specifics okay oh this is cool oh yeah no go ahead oh yeah luke i've still got my word 97 you signed for me at pax East years ago. Yes. My question, what's the weirdest slash coolest thing either one of you have signed for a fan? P.S. Beyond excited for labs and future engineering content. I've had people have me sign body parts. Yeah. But not like the ones you'd think. Oh.

Starting point is 02:32:38 Like, you know, very few people ask tech bros to sign their breasts, for example. You know like like your stereotypical i have okay well that's that's the difference between us i guess yeah i'd say i i signed with a fair number of sandals surprising number of sandals that's interesting yeah that makes sense yeah um i'm trying to think there's been a lot of like like cool things like people would bring in like apart from their computer i've always thought the gpu backplate was pretty sweet people would just bring in the backplate and they'd collect some signatures on it i thought that was pretty cool um the the word 97 like i i literally the second i read i've still got my word 97 i knew exactly

Starting point is 02:33:31 who it was when it was from everything because that was pretty cool um i like stuff like that but yeah oh this one's terrifying uh daryl what do you think of google matter the new google home connection standard i hope it succeeds as a single unified standard i have my doubts maybe it doesn't even make it to the end of this year i don't know look up uh xkcd standards no for real though this may not be that. Oh, okay. Yeah. Cool.

Starting point is 02:34:06 All right. It might be good. Okay. And last one here is from Alejandro. With EA confirming plans to create intrusive anti-treat rootkits akin to Riot's Valorant, what are your thoughts on companies expanding rootkit development and potentially testing gaming performance? Seems like a really good time

Starting point is 02:34:25 to start getting into the idea of partitions for gaming oh oh interesting yeah vms create a lot of issues um yeah they do especially with things like cheat detection um so yeah partitions for gaming get that boot speed down and start switching. I like it. We've actually got like 11 incoming merch messages. So maybe I'll blitz through these real quick. Yeah. Have a look. See if any of those are interesting to you. There's actually one, I think I'll read out here, uh, with the labs creating custom software and even hardware for testing. Is there any plans to make those tools public or open source? We've actually got a video coming about this very soon.

Starting point is 02:35:09 We're going to be showing off our benchmarking tool named Mark. Mark Bench. That's pretty great. Mark Bench the Benchmark. And it's an automated tool for benchmarking games. We're also going to add compatibility for productivity tools. And right now it's fairly rudimentary. It just is kind of just an automation tool with a simple GUI that logs the data,

Starting point is 02:35:37 logs data like frame times, thermals, power consumption, that sort of thing. But over time, we do want to make it significantly more robust. And I would like to make it available to the community for personal use. And maybe we have commercial licensing available for other outlets. I don't know what that would look like. There's a lot of questions to be answered. But yes, it is my desire to make it broadly available. There's a lot of confusion about my partitions comment uh i did not foresee this but there is i don't mean like installing your games on another partition uh i mean booting into like another operating system uh like have if you if you just use windows have

Starting point is 02:36:18 another one installed um is what i'm saying the only motorcycle i've ever owned is an sv650s levi it's a 2003 and my dream motorcycle is that one painted pink to be clear i mean an additional windows so you could have if you're a windows 11 person you could have two windows 11s one installed on another drive or partition is another way that i should have said it. So you could have two boot drives or you could have two boot partitions and you separate things. You separate all your personal stuff, all your important things, etc. And then games. We do seem to be trending in that direction. And I actually do genuinely think that's going to be a decently good way to do it.

Starting point is 02:37:03 Okay. okay uh well the problem is um i still don't actually know if they time out will they show if we click show luke if they time out yeah because you know they have the 180 second timer or whatever uh what then they would go into the queue so they would show yeah they would show so it works in the queue yeah okay so you can put go into the queue, so they would show, yeah. They would show. If they're in the queue, yeah. Okay, so you can put them in the queue after they time out. That's fine. What's the purpose of the timeout anymore then?

Starting point is 02:37:33 You know the timer, right? The 180-second timer when they start coming? I think it's supposed to automatically show if that happens. That doesn't seem good, because then stuff could slip through. They will. Conrad says they will. will okay it should be in the doc it should be in the doc about them about the messages derp face larry no i did not see uh who these garages video about toying with the f-150 lightning i saw that it existed i didn't actually watch the video but it's a really good question uh can evs overcome their dependence on aerodynamics or get higher efficiency batteries to compensate um so there's a whole thing right about the with the energy density like of hydrocarbons like gasoline

Starting point is 02:38:18 right it's really really really really really high. Like it's actually amazing how much energy is stored in those bonds such that we can so inefficiently extract it by literally just burning it. And we're still able to accomplish so much with so little. I don't know that EV batteries will ever be able to achieve that kind of power to weight ratio. And it may always be a challenge. With that said, I think that for a lot of people, what they do with something like a pickup truck can probably be handled by an EV pickup. And for those who need to actually haul a lot, there will be larger commercial vehicles that will be designed for that, like Tesla Semi, which hopefully is really good, but you know,

Starting point is 02:39:14 who knows, right? Yeah. Yeah, I have my doubts. It's possible that we will be reliant on fossil fuels for quite a long time. I just hope that we can reduce our use of them as much as possible. Okay. Sorry, Matthew S.

Starting point is 02:39:36 No, we haven't really thought about working with a local high school on the video or tech side. I don't know what we would do with them exactly. Well, I mean, there was that time that We talked to my kids school About like upgrading their computer lab And they were basically like yeah they have to be Macs And I was like okay

Starting point is 02:39:54 Well I don't really have any hookups for that Yeah so I guess you guys can just Keep whatever you have now So that was something Are they all Macs right now? That was a different school. My son was at before. David Andre asks,

Starting point is 02:40:12 what does LTD do to cover the energy usage of all the equipment that you use? Carbon credits, solar power for HQ and lab? Curious after your home solar videos. Nothing. I mean, carbon credits are like pretty debatable whether they are actually helpful what even are they basically you just buy like uh an ease like a um a feel better thing yeah pretty much so if you pollute you like by feeling better by giving money to companies that are working on

Starting point is 02:40:49 like green initiatives or something like that. Okay. Um, yeah, we're all hydropower here though. It's honestly something that I sleep pretty well knowing. Yeah. To be clear,

Starting point is 02:40:59 hydropower is not perfect. It has other issues, but once the dam is there, the milk is sort of spilt to a degree yeah um yeah uh let's just get through these last few brandon r says peace and love guys you mentioned a music producer pc wild oh good gravy uh yes we will do it eventually i'm so sorry uh sam h labs take a long time i got a new desk and was wondering when the cable management things would be out. Sometime next year.

Starting point is 02:41:30 And Frankie F. Do you plan on hiring anyone interested in the USA? Or expanding to the USA? No, I don't have any plans of expanding to the USA. As a not American, expanding to the USA is a non-trivial task. We'd have to like incorporate in America and there's all kinds of legal implications with all of that and I don't want to. Anonymous, bit off topic. What are the items maybe tech that you must have in your car i'm new to driving and want to be prepared what are your must-haves

Starting point is 02:42:11 got your emergency blankets got your first aid kit inverter doodad um i like go for it i hoard napkins always have a napkin hoard and uh some ketchup in my glove box um in bc i think it's a decent idea to have those like strap on cleat things for your shoes. They're not very expensive and you can just throw them in your trunk and forget about them until you need them and they'll be fine. Some amount of stable food and water. It might not be for you. Like that's something to think about with all of this stuff is it might not be for you. Yeah, those jumper battery banks. I have one of those those in the van i don't have one in the vault uh flashlights yeah sunglasses lots of good suggestions tons of this stuff is you don't

Starting point is 02:43:15 you don't even if you're like oh i just like drive to work and back like this is never going to be applicable again it might not be for you maybe uh you need to help someone find their dog so having a flashlight so you can look around would be cool i don't know it's just things that would be uh nice and helpful to have crampons is that what it's called finally travis asks what are your favorite games to play with your so um van and i picked up overcooked again recently it's been pretty fun Whatever she wants to play is really What I'll take I'll accept that

Starting point is 02:43:49 Alright I think that's it for the show Thank you guys so much for watching We will see you again next week Same bad time same bad channel Don't do the thing I mean you can do it but not through there Just do it through here I don't know how to do that

Starting point is 02:44:04 I already pushed it Do I push it again Okay. You can do it, but not through there. Just do it through here. I don't know how to do that. I already pushed it. Oh, it's not doing it. It's not doing it. Do you have the server running? Do I push it again? Let's make sure the server is working properly. Uh-oh.

Starting point is 02:44:14 I think this is... Did you set it up before the show? I think so. There we go. And the button. Hey, look at that. Hey! Hey! Woo! Hey, look at that. Hey! Hey!

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