The WAN Show - China Just Ruined 100M Childhoods - WAN Show September 3, 2021

Episode Date: September 6, 2021

Enter TEAMGROUP's Back-to-school giveaway here: https://lmg.gg/teamgroupgiveaway PC or no PC Application Form: https://lmg.gg/VjTSW Timestamps (Courtesy of NoKi1119) [0:00] Chapters. [1:20] Intro. [1:50] Topic #1: China limits time for gaming.     7:32 Arm China goes rogue.     15:07 How the ban might help with monitoring. [21:47] Topic #2: Red-dit banning subred-dits. [31:59] Sponsors.     32:07 Backblaze cloud storage.     33:05 Ridge wallet.     34:24 Squarespace website builder. [35:27] Topic #3: The origin of Floatplane. [46:39] LTTstore new merch. [49:18] Topic #4: SK bills against Apple and Google.     51:10 Apple links paying OUT of App Store.     55:30 Apple CSAM delayed due to backlash. [58:24] Topic #5: A day off Twitch. [1:10:16] Topic #6: New gameshow - PC or NO PC. [1:11:15] Superchats. [1:16:26] Wrapping up. [1:17:12] Outro. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

With Uber Reserve, you can book your Uber ride in advance. 90 days in advance. Perfect for all you forward thinkers and planning gurus. Reserve your Uber ride up to 90 days in advance. Uber Reserve. See Uber app for details. Welcome to the WAN Show, ladies and gentlemen. We've got a fantastic show for you guys today. Lots of good, good topics. I'll find them. They're here somewhere. Ah, there's a good one. topics i'll find them they're here somewhere ah there's a good one now china is limiting minors to one hour of video games per day and only on fridays saturdays

sundays and holidays from 8 to 9 p.m now we're gonna have to figure out sort of if there's a little more to this but wow that um that is aggro in other aggro news uh reddit has banned covid denial subreddit citing rule one as justification what is rule one we'll be talking about that as well we'll be talking about that as well quantum computing just got weirder new amd quantum computing patent uh quotes literally teleportation we'll uh we'll talk about that in in a little bit here also a day off on twitch every single streamer that's not today is it i actually don't know uh we're not we're not in violation of day off Twitch, are we? Took place on September 1st. We're good.

We're good. It's okay. Okay. So now Twitch is okay because that day is over. Yeah. Sure. Yep. Rolling the intro. obviously we're gonna have to jump right into our headline topic for the day, the gaming ban for minors in China. Now, obviously, it's a little

bit more complicated, but it's also not entirely unexpected. This new law supersedes 2019 rules that allowed 90 minutes per day and forbade playing between 10 p.m. and 8 a.m., with the justification back then being that, well, kids shouldn't be playing too many video games, and they shouldn't be up late, such that it will affect their schooling, which is, I mean, fair enough, but whether that is the role of the state or the role of the parent is something that I think a lot of people would disagree about. The 2019 measures also limited miners' monthly spending on games to a maximum of $57, which appears to be unchanged. This new policy also enforces a policy requiring game companies to require players' real names I mean, imagine giving up your minor data protection laws in order to make sure that those minors who companies are now by law collecting information from are not playing too many video games. That's an interesting double-edged sword right there. The press release on state media said it is indisputable

that indulging in online games affects normal study life and teens' physical and mental health. I could see that. Young Chinese gamers are lashing out at the new rules. One objection, sexual consent at 14. At 16, you can go out to work, but you have to be 18 to play games. This is really a joke. Pretty good observation as well.

I don't think I could have put it any better myself. Now, to be clear, there's nothing that the Chinese government can do to prevent a miner from playing a single player game completely disconnected from the Internet. If there was, I'm sure they would be trying to figure out how to do that. In fact, my understanding is that functionality like that could end up being baked into game platforms like the Chinese version of Steam, so that if you are playing a single player offline game, it could theoretically be enforced. But my understanding is there's no actual enforcement or attempt to enforce any kind of rule like that this is mostly focused on online gaming so let's talk luke

how would this have affected your childhood why don't we start with that pretty majorly but probably not as much as you would think we were in extremely sports heavy household i played a lot of sports many days of the week i was out at practice or game day um i mostly i'm remembering now i rated in wow so that was two nights a week and essentially every single other night playing sports so i wouldn't have been able to do that. Because that would generally take three hours. But the problem here is that, am I misinterpreting this? Is there only a one-hour window in which you can play video games?

Yeah. Everyone is tied within that one-hour window. That's one of the most interesting things to me personally about this whole thing. Is the one specific one-hour window between 8 and 9 p.m which is like kind of sort of neat in a way because i feel like like you know all your friends are going to be online yeah absolutely 100 because i mean the thing about uh the thing about having something like a weekly limit is that if you were you know you had a sports ball practice on Tuesday night or you had a family dinner on Wednesday night and Thursday night, you had some homework to catch up on on Friday night. You could be like, I'm staying up late. I'm going to play video games all night. I'm going to play some Pokemon Blue. And that's not possible.

You can't really ration if you don't have a ton of flexibility in terms of how you take advantage of that limited amount of time that you're allowed to spend gaming. What I want to know is, actually, this is great. Floatplane Chat's already talking about it. Pirate LV says, rip their power grid. All those PCs starting up at once, got to spin them hard drives. 1.2 billion hard drives spinning up at the same time.

It's a lot. It's interesting. Yeah. I mean, and like it mentions, this is only online play, so this really isn't going to restrict everything. There is a lot of single-player games. I do wonder, and

they might only do it for china but i wonder if this might reduce the amount of uh single-player games that require online handshakes constantly you know the amount there's a huge amount of always online single-player games and again maybe this just changes for china maybe it doesn't change at all. But I wouldn't be surprised if certain companies started kind of going like, oh, wait a second. We might get more sales if we don't make this single player game always online. But then again, I don't want to generalize, but China has been sort of a hotbed for piracy. So if anything, I think a lot of these always online requirements are actually specifically targeting the chinese market so do you really remove these everything gets pirated anyways

and and that's fair enough but i mean you know only china could literally pirate a subsidiary of arm you know like that's yeah that is next that is next level i mean that might be that might be the heist of the century at this point did you did you hear about this i don't even think this is in the doc this week is the arm the arm heist in in the doc let me uh let me have a look here so this this is a totally, totally unrelated news topic, but Arm China has basically gone rogue. I forget the exact order of events, but essentially the executive that was in charge, because the thing is, in order to operate in China, you have to have some percentage of Chinese ownership. And so the executive that I believe has some kind of controlling stake in it pretty much said, see you later, parent company. We are now going to just start doing our own IP

licenses and we're going to diverge our product development roadmap. And we are now a different company. Bye-bye. And it's hard to tell if that was precipitated by the rumors of an NVIDIA acquisition or if this was something that was just kind of a foregone conclusion and the wheels just started spinning faster when that started coming up. But yeah, it's kind of crazy to think about, right? Because certainly there have been Chinese firms like Huawei, for example, that have earned a reputation for corporate espionage, um, you know, by any, I mean, some of the stories really do sound like fiction, you know, planting engineers and, you know, secretly transporting materials out of

offices and transmitting them somewhere else and like all this kind of crazy stuff. Right. And, you know, ARM China basically said, well, I don't know all of that. Right. We're just going to what we have all the IP just by being this company. Why don't we just continue to be this company, but we'll be our own version of this company. Bye. And as far as I can tell, I haven't actually looked into it in the last little while. So don't quote me on this.

But as far as I can tell, I don't think the Chinese government plans to really do anything about it. So that raises a lot of questions about how you're going to... Dark Force says, I thought the ARM China saga started way before the NVIDIA ARM attempted merger. Yeah, I think you're right.

I just remember it kind of... Either it got kicked into high gear, or maybe it was that all of a sudden it was more newsworthy because it cast that shadow of uncertainty over the acquisition. I think you're probably right. Catwalk Clusterf**k says, China doesn't create tech, they steal it. That's the thing, though. That's not actually true. I mean, especially now, the number of like high level engineering graduates and science graduates coming out of Chinese universities compared to Western ones is mind boggling. These are enormous educational institutions and they are,

they are finding ways to pump out highly, highly educated scientists in a way that pretty much no one else is right now. As far as I can. There's also, there's also the whole thing where like, it's like North American and European kids. It's like, what, what are their, what are the, what, what are the things that they most want to be when they grow up? And right now, if I remember correctly, it's genuinely like YouTuber and Twitch streamer

for North American European. Sorry. I've corrupted the youth. It's completely your fault. No one else's. You have all the blame. I'm just so cool. I can't help if people want to be like me.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That weren't it uh and then in china it's it's scientists and astronaut i think right yep or something yeah i don't remember exactly what it is scientist is one of them i don't remember the other one it might be scientist and engineer i'm not sure for scientists and doctor i'm pretty sure it's scientists and doctor so don't kid don't kid yourself. China's inventing laws. But there are areas where, whether it's due to intellectual property protection or whether it's due to just the fact that it's been being worked on elsewhere for so much longer, there are areas where China is behind, and central processing is one of them. But obviously, that took a giant leap, a great leap forward, I think is probably the correct term for that ARM uses and references and the creation of their technology, I have no idea how that is sequestered from one regional office to another. to create a next generation ARM instruction, like ISA, instruction set architecture, whatever else.

I would imagine that everyone would need access to everything. But I don't know. Yeah, maybe it's more isolated than that. Maybe they have to kind of put the pieces together I have no idea It wouldn't even surprise me To read an article about A literal SWAT team

Storming the ARM headquarters at this point Okay So back to Back to kids in China Not being allowed to play video games. Yes. There's two major questions here, right? One is do video games actually harm you to such a degree

that you should be limited to an hour a day? Are these harmful? The statement that they made is indulging in online games affects normal study life and teens physical and mental health um your study life and your physical health like yeah unquestionably i also think the impact of online games on someone's mental health is actually probably a very interesting thing to look into. And I think in a lot of cases, it's probably negative. If you're notably surrounding yourself specifically with friends, that's kind of its own thing. And that's interesting.

kind of its own thing and that's interesting um but i think a lot of times you just end up in cod lobbies where everyone's just screaming into the mic as many profanities and offensive things as they possibly can and i don't know how helpful that necessarily is so that specific statement like they're probably on on base with it um that being said i don't i don't know it gets interesting because it's a it's a different country and it's pretty much as different as you could possibly imagine. I mean, is it possible that we just are completely out of touch Westerners and have no idea that actually this gaming addiction among Chinese youth is an epidemic that is destroying an entire generation of people?

I don't know. It's different, right? It's very different over there. I have no idea. I can't claim to say things with fact about a place that I know very little about. This is a great comment from Thelonious Mac that says, this is not just about gaming.

China's concerned about games being used as a means for subversive communications. It's hard to monitor the, you know, messages between every dwarf in a WoW server, for example. But the thing about that is that, okay, actually, that's kind of a good point. I was going to say, you know, having an hour when everyone's online is basically, if anything increasing the amount of of potential noise that you might have to sift through in order to find these it's not to be sifted through large communications right um because like literally everyone is going to be online at exactly the same time the odds of

coming across something useful seems to me might be lower. But then again, if you are limiting their ability to communicate to just one hour a day, maybe that's just sort of deemed useful. But then the thing is, I mean, these are kids, right? These are probably not revolutionaries that are going you know, going to storm the Capitol. Is this really who we're concerned about? Like, help me out here. I don't know. It's very different there, right?

Like, I don't know. So should... I can't, I can't, I don't think i can pose any real understanding of this because i don't understand i don't i i lack so much knowledge on on chinese culture and their situations like something that was brought up last time we talked about one of these topics um was it it was mentioned that like oh the government shouldn't be like uh taking care of the kids the parents should be taking care of the kids and someone brought up well okay it's very common for work hours to be longer there yeah the parents might not be home so like the the government is

trying to step in to help with that because a lot of a lot of them are not home and can't afford a nanny um so like it's it's kids just alone at home by themselves. So they're trying to exert some amount of control there. That's an unfortunate thing that's becoming a little bit more common here, but is not really a standard in North America, I would say. So it's something that is foreign to me. And that's, that's not something I would have necessarily expected, but if the kids are just running around at home alone,

trying to force them to do something else other than just play games might make sense. I don't know. It's a situation I've never had to deal with, but I don't know. It's, it's very, very different.

I mean, one hour all at the same time seems a little odd, but Tim SP says, I think every generation has their vices that they, you know, attempt to protect children from. When I went to university, my dad kept warning me about card players

who flunked out when he went to school. They spent all their time playing cards instead of studying. If you want to do stuff that isn't studying, and there will always be something, you can push the circle down the road with a stick. You can push the ring down the road with a stick, whatever that old game was.

People will find a way to distract themselves, play some, play some, kick the can, some, some rings, some ball in a cup. Yeah.

Yeah. So yeah, I, I, I, I, I hate it. I,

you know, I think it's out of touch. Um, I think that treating, treating video games, like there's some kind of, of devil that should be basically i mean it's in a way this is more regulated than you know even legitimately dangerous substances are

in many parts of the world like i it's it's kind of it's just baffling to me but i also never really had the very very toxic gaming experiences that some people seem to experience right like i i never was so addicted to gaming that it prevented me from functioning in my day-to-day life and i know that that is a thing that some people do experience but here's what i want to know is i mean mean, China is, whether you like it or not, whether you want to admit it or not, is an authoritarian regime, right? So who's to say that this isn't just an experiment? Well, let's start with the kids because we can kind of, oh, but think of the children in order to justify it. And if it's a success, then we roll this out throughout because from a from a government standpoint, why wouldn't I just prefer if everyone was being productive?

You know what I mean? Like video games, they you know, I don't know if you could I don't know if you can prove that it is indisputable that indulging in online games affects normal study life and physical and mental health but you can certainly indisputably prove that it's not productive it doesn't produce anything well there's i don't know there's some like especially in in the times of covid i would say it's it's a good way to get social energy out like if you and all your friends jump online like that's a that's a social activity um but it's also different types of what does it produce happiness no that's not a product you can still produce happiness it's a it's a drug in your brain uh okay i mean i guess okay we want to talk now you're producing dopamine hits i mean by that logic why don't we all just do hard drugs then i know i think it would be productive then by your definition okay so dopamine would come from the game itself but i believe the social pleasure would be something else not dopamine um i can't claim enough to know to name it off the top of my

head but um serotonin is that right i don't know anyways i i think there's there's benefits that you could argue that could come from it but i don't know uh i think it's very easy to argue the otherwise john wick in the floatplane chat says yeah let's just destroy this multi-billion dollar gaming market um honestly right now it seems like the cp zero f***s about the economic damage of their policies. I mean, you see the way they're cracking down on big tech over there. Honestly, some of the things they're doing are moves that I completely agree with. Not all of it, obviously. They're specifically going after billionaires in China.

Yeah. In a negative way. Like, they are trying to crack down on billionaires in China. It's very different to here. That's another one of those things where like I'm just it's very different over there. So it's it's difficult. Why don't we jump into our next topic here? Reddit has banned COVID denial subreddits citing rule one as justification so why don't we start with

this rule one what is rule one um remember the human reddit is a place for creating community and belonging not for attacking marginalized or vulnerable groups of people everyone has a right to use reddit free of bullying, and threats of violence. Communities and users that incite violence or that promote hate based on identity or vulnerability will be banned. That is rule one. Okay, so let's-

How that applies. Go back a little bit here. Reddit banned r slash no new normal specifically and then quarantined 54 other subreddits for breaking rules and spreading covid misinformation so this comes after many other subreddits protested the amount of misinformation being spread on the platform with a post on r slash vax happened reaching 190 000 upvotes so let's go have a quick look at that reddit is taking a hot minute to load here so that's um really unusual uh hello reddit i tried as well but it's taking a long time for me too and taking a really long time no action

was taken right away uh the ban slash quarantines came a few days later with no response from reddit administrators in the interim i'm still waiting for that page to load so reddit admins made a post roughly a year ago outlining their mission statement regarding covet 19 misinformation so they added a misinformation report flow and called on mods and the community to report as much as they could but here's the thing um reddit has kind of been a safe haven for unpopular opinions un unpopular sentiments. And illegal things. As much as they don't want to admit it, there is a huge amount of illegal activity that goes through Reddit, just straight up.

So how do they reconcile that legacy with this kind of a move? I'm not going to say that I... Especially when rule one is like really ambiguous to be clear but also doesn't really seem as as totally okay with this as i am rule one doesn't really seem to apply a huge amount here i mean so apparently one of the big reasons for it was that r slash NoNewNormal was brigading other subreddits. So they were kind of spamming and creating a toxic environment in other subreddits. And that is something that is not permitted.

That would go under harassment, probably. That would go, yeah. So that could very easily be yeah harassment bullying um it would it would surprise me if none of that brigading contained threats of violence i mean that is something that people will frequently uh just kind of casually throw around on the internet when they wouldn't in normal conversation i mean like how many times have you heard, like, how many times have you heard... I mean, how many times have you heard this one? You know, what the f*** did you just f***ing say about me,

you little b***h? I'll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy SEALs. I've been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Qaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I'm trained in gorilla warfare and i'm the top sniper in the entire u.s armed forces you are nothing to me but just another target i will wipe you the out with precision the likes of which you've never seen before on the

stuff like that's the kind of thing that people just copy paste for lols because it's funny on the internet but you would never actually talk to anyone like that and that's supposed to be why it's funny but a lot of people sort of didn't catch the joke um the the al-qaeda included in there is really starting to date that copy paste yeah yeah yeah we need to update we need to update the copy pasta let's find another forever war that uh the u.s starts and then we can make a new copypasta. Nice. So, what does this mean for Reddit? Like, you know, yeah, this is misinformation. It shouldn't be spread, but it's not hate speech. So, it's not illegal. Like, that's one of the key lines.

There's plenty of illegal stuff that actually does of the that's one of the key lines there's there's plenty of illegal stuff that actually does happen on reddit but they can do whatever they want right like it doesn't matter if it's illegal or not if they don't want it to be on the platform they can remove it um we've talked about this in the past this isn't a government website it's a private website they cited a somewhat weird rule and they should maybe consider if they do want to stop the spread of general misinformation in the future, they should maybe consider including a rule about that. Enforcing that is going to be incredibly difficult, nigh impossible. But I don't know, maybe it's just super selective. Gilmore D in the floatplane chat just sent the greatest chat I think i have ever seen in the history of our entire

live streaming career um you know talking about like how people talk to each other on the internet he goes it's amazing how many 12 year olds have my mom it truly is those 12 year olds they really get around with the older ladies you know what i'm saying it's really impressive yeah someone should really do something about that yeah we i mean that that right there is an indisputable threat to these teens normal study life and physical and mental health going around like all these all these uh you know moms yeah yeah those moms they might have been around themselves. You could catch something. You got to be careful.

We need to start distributing a lot of condoms to a lot of 12-year-olds and that's going to be the way we fight this. I'm sorry. What is this show even about? No. Oh my goodness.

Anyways, yeah, I mean, ultimately it's a private platform, right? They can do whatever they want. So I don't know. They can cite rule one. It doesn't matter if rule one is applicable or not. They could cite rule number 69 and the text for rule 69 is just nice and they could be like that's why we banned it doesn't matter it's a private platform they can do whatever they want yep i just think that i don't know given what it means for reddit i don't know yeah reddit i mean

reddit has reddit i i gotta be honest with you i never really understood why dig needed to be honest with you. I never really understood why dig needed to be replaced by Reddit. Um, from, uh, from just, uh, uh, from, uh, uh, a very infrequent user's perspective. I never really used dig. I never really used Reddit. So I'm sorry if I'm not well-versed in the sort of the cultural differences between the two websites from a functionality standpoint obviously reddit is is way ahead now but back then i i didn't really get it i didn't really understand why you would post something on reddit instead of dig or why you would do you know at the time that that kind of shift happened there was a lot of other alternatives as well but the point i was

trying to make is that another reddit can clearly come along because the other reddit already um already existed before my counterpoint was at that point in time there was a lot of turmoil in the space and right now there is none and i think reddit has so much market share and so much ubiquity that it would be very difficult to overcome Reddit now. And back then when Dig was starting and these types of mass multi-news sites were kind of popping up, there was What's Dig? There's two Gs there, by the way. It was a really big thing thing there was tons of different competing websites and it was it was a war to see which one was going to win and a few of them are still

sort of around but reddit is clearly um like absolute massive amounts beyond all the other ones and i i don't think it would be very easy for one to take over now just because you'd have to win over so many subreddits it would be crazy there's so many communities dialed into dialed into reddit it has become yeah back in the day a ton of different creators not just tech creators a ton of different creators would spin up their own forums right now people just do reddits subreddits yep it's a lot easier it is yeah for sure and i think that's something within our space so i understand it but i'm sure that same type of activity happens elsewhere just like people used to make their own vent servers now they do discord all that kind of stuff things are are narrowing down into smaller amounts of platforms we should

totally get like a mumble server going just for just for old time's sake yeah that'd be sweet i'll get it hosted at the at the at the office or something like that and we can all we can all chat on mumble we'll have to do the wan show we'll do our we'll do our call with each other over mumble oh crap no video okay well forget it well we'll we'll we'll have to do the WAN show. We'll do our call with each other over mumble. Oh, crap, no video. Okay, well, forget it. Well, we'll have mumble running in the background, and we'll both just have it muted. Okay? Nice!

It'll just be sitting there reassuring us. Yeah. I still exist. Yeah, I think that's about it on that topic. Yeah, that's all I really have to say that's okay though because we've got even more controversial things to talk about like this message from our sponsors

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I would really love to tell the story of the domain flowplane.com someday. But we probably just shouldn't. Oh, man. It's a heck of a story. Yeah, yeah. You know what? Tell the story. It's quite a story.

Yeah, tell the story. There's parts that i don't know if we should go through though i i i think the people have a right to know i think the people have a right to know um okay so back in the day there wasn't a domain floatplane started just on the forum um it was genuinely called rip vessel um it wasn't called float plane for a while it's just a forum section called rip vessel um nick came up with the name float plane we decided to run with float plane but we couldn't get floatplane.com someone owned it and we couldn't figure out who it was being parked they wouldn't respond to any of our stuff um we tried to seize the domain because it seemed genuinely completely inactive

and the people wouldn't respond to our attempts to purchase and there's some weird clause where you can kind of do that um it basically never works but we were genuinely interested in the possibility that it was completely abandoned so we were kind of probing for that. I feel like I'm forgetting some parts. I have some docs with notes on this that I'd have to bring up. But this was a very long process of us trying to hunt down this domain. During the process of trying to hunt down this domain,

we found some names and started trying to follow through with like who these people are yeah um and ended up in this oh and part of the reason for that was that if it is impossible to get in touch with the owner of a domain you can actually file to have that domain um like revoked from them you you are you you must be able to contact the owner of a domain they need valid contact information you can be like hey this has clearly lapsed and no one's actually holding this so uh it should just be available again that is a thing that happens it's one of the ways that domains can get sniped it's pretty uncommon it is possible they can

absolutely ignore you it's just that their contact information does need to be valid yeah and there were issues with their contact information so we were trying to pursue that but we also didn't really actually genuinely didn't really just want to rip it from someone like we we but their contact information had issues and we wanted the domain. So we were trying to work on it. Ended up finding some names attached to it, but it was like this weird nest of people. It seemed like a group of people owned a very large list of domains and had owned them and had parked them and done nothing with them ever for a very very large amount of years ended up uh narrowing it down to one person um who do i go into it do it uh okay

so they were a freemason i found the person who owned it by finding a freemason website that had like ancestry details. And I was able to go through the family lines and find the person who was currently alive who owned the domain. They were in a completely different country. We tried contacting them. We tried sending mail to two of their home addresses because they have houses in different countries. They were ignoring that. We sent mail multiple times. They kept ignoring that, kept ignoring that.

One time, Linus had to go on a trip to film a video in San Francisco. So I don't remember whose idea this was. I feel like it might have been mine, but I i don't remember whose idea this was i feel like it might have been mine but i genuinely don't remember whose idea this was but we decided hey just go knock on the door and see what happens hey i want to buy your domain so um he knocks on the door and and I would say kid. Yeah. Yeah, young man. Young man.

Young man. Yeah, kid is not fair. Young man answered the door. I don't think he really realized right away, but it turns out he was a fan, so he knew Linus when Linus knocked on the door. Then there ends up, I don't want to go into too many details here but the the father did not live there yeah they were still this was an ex-spouse situation okay yeah that so the ex-spouse was living in the house with the the uh mutual son okay yes? Yes, yeah.

It's the father that owns the domain, though. Yes. So we didn't really get all the way there, and that's why the mail was ignored, was because they didn't really care, because it was the dad. Yes. But through the son's connection, we were able to get in contact with the dad.

The dad is not low on the totem pole with the freemasons um didn't really care about us wanting to buy the domain because didn't really care about our money which we didn't have a lot of through but still didn't really care. He kind of shot it down, if I remember correctly, before we even really got to the point of talking about funds anyways. What he was potentially interested in was entertaining and potentially career advancing his son. Yes. Wait, hold on a second. a freemason being about making

connections no they wouldn't they're not into that never okay i'll let you continue the story anyway but i really think this is this is totally perfect it's been a long time um no no no no to be clear i think you've got the story bang on i just i was just teasing you so we we flew uh him and his mom yes up to ltx yes man now i'm man so the agreement was that the price was contingent on us entertaining and hosting the son and kind of showing him around and sort of making that connection. And the mom reluctantly agreed to accompany the son because he wasn't allowed to come on his own. He wasn't allowed to come on his own. And I would never want to speak ill of anyone, but the conversation we had when she discovered that we didn't have Uber in Vancouver

was one of probably the dumbest conversations I've ever had in my life. You don't have Uber? Well, how are we supposed to get there and i was just like a taxi a bus walk i don't know um you're you're you're a gross woman like i what i'm your i'm your life coach now so it so he he he attends ltx um we do an office tour yeah uh give me one second uh that's a sidebar thing we do an office tour i think he's kind of enjoying himself mom no not even slightly um the trip is pulled early they yeet the heck out of there um they they go back home uh plan not cool the uh the the dad was not

stoked about this um because he didn't really get entirely what he wanted. He wanted more time there and stuff. Yep. But understood it wasn't our fault. Yes. Yep. Yep. Was,

was quite understanding with the whole situation. But still not stoked. No. Delayed a little bit, but not that long. Like it was totally fine. I think they were just having conversations on the back end and then eventually we settled on a price which was kind of what we were aiming to pay without having done any of that stuff yeah so you know whatever it still wasn't

cheap it was what was it 10 grand i think it was 10 grand i think we paid you at 10 grand that's actually not bad for a 10 letter.com true like with actual dictionary words that's yeah it's not bad um now in fairness ltx 18 i guess this would have been i think it was 18 yeah was pretty ghetto like it was not um it was not a lot more so to face the most recent one yeah yeah uh it was not, um, it was not a lot more. So it was the most reasonable. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, it was not the most amazing expo we ever did.

I could understand, you know, the mom being like, there's nothing for me to do here. The mom also could have just like chilled and like shopped or something because the son was a young man, not like a small child. And like Vancouver is a pretty cool place. And like,

yeah, we're just a bunch of tech nerds. are we gonna do and he if he was genuinely enjoying himself like i got that vibe i don't know wasn't there a whole thing where um because they flew out early they like wanted us to pay like the higher price of the return flight i remember there was some debate around that and we were kind of sitting here going well it's not's not our fault. You didn't take the flight. We gave you just because you hated LTX doesn't mean you have to leave Vancouver. Like I, that, that I don't necessarily remember too much. I I'm not saying it didn't happen. I just, it's been a long time.

So I'm like so confused. This, this this was genuinely what do you think like my brain is telling me like seven or eight months oh it was it was a long period of time it was it was like i had a word doc i had a word doc that is still somewhere that's i'm pretty sure like five or six pages long not not trying to like save this story so i'll remember it later trying to collect all my notes and stuff so I could track these things properly and have website links to things and all this kind of stuff so I could figure all of this out. This was actually a really major project trying to acquire this domain. And not because it was necessarily

expensive. It was because it was genuinely quite difficult to do. Now that we have it it's just yeah the the name of the platform is not changing yeah is it a great name probably not is the name changing no definitely not yeah it's not um all right why don't we jump into another news topic oh actually lttstore.com the dad hats are live people have been asking about these because we uh i have been accidentally definitely wearing them on camera a lot uh sorry nick i know that you hate it when i do that but they're just they're so comfortable and cool uh here they are ltt dad hats your dad's fashion's finally cool ha ha thank you sarah that's got that's got to be her her line uh there they are so we've got them in all kinds of different styles and colors uh hold on a second let me see if i can figure this out

oh hold on a second oh yeah okay here we go where's the scroll thing isn't working it's not working luke help me why okay hold on classic okay oh yeah okay well that's a float plane thing for the team there to figure out at any rate one of my favorite ones is uh wow there's a lot of pictures with that scroll not working that's going to be uh that's going to be a challenge and a half i wonder if the amount of pictures had something to do with it this is a very very large amount of pictures uh yes this is it might not holy this is one of my favorites though um that is really a lot of pictures okay well at any rate we have lots of different styles and we have pictures and oh wait okay so hold on a second when you have a classic okay it works when that variety is available luke see this oh so not every not every embroidery has a color and not every color has an embroidery correct so you have to like find. Okay.

So washed black components and RGB are both things. Automagically is only in khaki. It should probably like have a little like shake, like flash red shake thing or something to indicate that there isn't something there. Yeah. Or something. Anyway, they're super nice go get one uh lttstore.com all right what else we got for topics today oh apple news the walled garden begins to fall or the the wall around the garden begins to fall south South Korea's, part one. South Korea passes a law

forcing Apple and Google to allow third-party payment processors in the App Store and Play Store. I wonder who could benefit from this. I know, right? In South Korea. I wonder who. Yeah.

LG. No, just kidding. They closed down their phone division. Samsung! There you go. South Korea's National Assembly has voted to pass an amendment to the country's Telecommunications Business Act forbidding platform holders from forcing developers

to use the built-in payment system. Such policies would have prevented Apple and Google from removing Fortnite from the iOS App Store and Google Play Store. President Moon Jae-in is broadly expected to sign the amendment into law soon. Tim Sweeney was obviously happy about this, but then went and made it kind of weird. As President Kennedy said at the Berlin Wall in 1963,

today all developers around the world can be proud to say, I am Korean. Okay. Yes. today all developers around the world can be proud to say i am korean um okay yes yeah he made it weird yeah i'm sure like to be clear like i understand the sentiment like you should be you know proud to something the lawmakers in your country sort of understand that this is like kind of antitrust issue i don't know that i don't know that this kind of an achievement makes me proud to be like from the country that you know did it or whatever like i could see americans being all like rah rah rah man on the moon or whatever.

But I don't know that this is like an astronaut on the moon kind of situation. Anyway, in part two of this discussion, Apple lets reader apps include a link to pay outside the app store in a move to shake off a Japanese investigation. So this we talked about last week. Yeah, so reader app is Apple's name for

apps that simply give the user access to a library of content they have already purchased so this includes Netflix Spotify and Kindle currently these apps avoid Apple's 30% cut simply telling users that they can't make an account in the iOS app but once they're a member they can start using it when this new policy is rolled out, reader apps, but not games, because that would be too obvious, can link directly to their website instead of just vaguely alluding to it. Hold on one sec, one sec, one sec.

It says, currently these apps avoid Apple's 30% cut by simply telling users they can't make an account in the iOS app. No, you can't tell users. Oh, actually, you're right obviously it's it's changing but you that's one of the biggest problems we had with it was as long as we could just tell people like oh yeah you have to go to the website to make an account or you have to go to the website to pay or something else like then that's fine but you were not allowed to communicate these things it was it was really frustrating they they blocked our app

and like some people tweeted me and be like no this is fine they're fine with this they have blocked the floatplane app from going to the store for us doing things like that in the past yeah so yeah i'm very happy things are changing we're totally getting our problems they've ran into yeah um japan's fair trade commission says it will close its investigation of apple which has been ongoing since 2016 once once Apple rolls out the policy. So here's what I want to know. Because realistically, Apple's just going to play whack-a-mole with this country by country until a major player moves.

So is the U.S. Apple's home turf going to just step in and say, hey, you guys need to stop doing this do you see it happen i i don't really um if it happens in the u.s i see it happening not for like in in this case it's it's their oh i could be saying this wrong president is it president prime minister not sure leader it's? Prime minister? Not sure. Leader. It's their country leader. Head of state. There. Sure. That's a generic term.

I believe it's the president. I don't see it happening through that avenue in the States. I see it happening through things like the EPIC thing that's going on. I see it happening from other companies and eventually becoming standard. Would you say precedence rather than presidents?

Oh, yeah. I like that. But yes, I think it's I think if it happens in the States, it would happen through precedence. But I don't know. I think I actually lean the other way i think this is going to happen in the u.s and i think that the u.s has started to finally signal with um an ftc that is you know actually making public what they're what they're talking about i think the u.s has started to signal that the free ride is over for big tech they're're certainly not moving as aggressively as China. Yeah. It's big tech. Um, that's a whole boy,

you know, you ever watched those, uh, those time lapses of like, you know, hospitals being just like conjured in China during the, the early stages of the coronavirus pandemic, like infrastructure projects.

They're crazy. I don't know. They happen real fast in china they have shown like oh yeah um it's been a long time since we destroyed microsoft we we have we have teeth still we've got some teeth but i haven't really seen a lot of action personally um going after blizzard like doesn't count in my opinion um that's that's some really low-hanging fruit. That's fair. I don't know.

I'm not saying they shouldn't have gone after Blizzard. I'm just saying that isn't a sign of, like, a form of governance that's going to, like, really, really crack down on their anti-monopoly, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah type of law stuff. That's just going after a company that has some like yeah blah blah blah blah stuff that's pretty good in other apple news apple's c-sam c-s-a-m whatever you want to call it detection system has been delayed uh so last

month apple announced two controversial features that would scan iPhones locally for child sexual abuse material, or CSAM, before uploading to their iCloud Photos service. It would also alert parents when their children receive or send sexually explicit photos, and it would blur those images. With over 660 million paying subscribers, and many more with free iCloud, this would affect many users, because Jonathan Horst, our very own Apple correspondent, learned in his iCloud, this would affect many users because Jonathan Horst, our very own Apple correspondent, learned in his iCloud video, iCloud Photos is turned on by default when you set up any Apple mobile device. Today, they announced that they are delaying the rollout of these features. So in a statement to The Verge, Apple said, based on feedback from customers, advocacy

groups, researchers, and others, we've decided to take additional time over the coming months to collect input and make improvements before releasing these critically important child safety features. Well, I hope it wouldn't affect many users. This is worded in an interesting way because the whole CSAM thing, right? And I know the last time we talked about this, we talked a lot about the creep,

like what continues to happen here, who's going to basically inevitably be able to steal this tool and go through everyone's photos and stuff like that. So I'm not talking about that right now. I'm purely talking about its current intention and iteration and nothing else, not the ramifications, none of that kind of stuff. It's saying this 660 million paying subscribers and more with Free iCloud, this would affect many users. Again, hopefully not because it's just detecting

child sexual photos. So hopefully it really doesn't affect very many users. But I mean, it's obviously a bigger thing than it should be and then you would like to think that it is um what i want to know is if basically the only thing that's going to change is the way they're communicating it because what it sounded like before was that your photos would kind of be like browsable to an Apple employee.

But looking back at it now, it kind of sounds like that is not the case. So a lot of the confusion around this seems to boil down to where the scanning is taking place. So we know now it's happening locally. And, man, you know what? Here's what I'm going to call it here. I think Apple is going to change nothing and they're going to announce, yep, never mind.

We are implementing this and most of the outrage will have died down and it'll be yesterday's news and no one will talk about it. I'm calling it. Speaking of yesterday's news, no one will talk about it. I'm calling it. Speaking of yesterday's news, it was actually two days ago.

A day off Twitch was a thing this week. Want to run us through it? The hashtag a day off Twitch campaign organized by streamers Raven Lucia Everblack and Shinypen. Shinypen? Shinypen? Took place on September 1st in solidarity against the hate raids that are spreading across the Twitch platform. I just want to say it's been a while since this was launched, but I'm pretty sure we talked about this on WAN Show, and I'm pretty sure we said exactly this was going to happen when they first set up the tagging system.

But let's keep going through this. Harassment on streaming services is sadly nothing new. Creators are now finding themselves targeted with a new kind of attack called a hate raid, in which they are flooded with new viewers and followers, but ones that are simply there to spam their streams with hate. The hate raids are possibly... The hate raids, it says possibly.

They're definitely a result of this. The hate raids are possibly a result of this the the hate raids are possibly a result of the platform expanding its tag list to include 350 tags classified by gender sexual orientation race nationality ability mental health and more it has made uh far ease is made it far easier for racist trolls to find and harass creators i'm pretty sure we talked about this on WAN Show, and I'm pretty sure we said, wow, this is going to make it way easier

for people to find the people that they want to show on. So here's the problem, is, you know, as a platform, you're called upon to increase visibility of minorities and help amplify their voices voices i'm definitely not saying to be very clear and and and that's a good thing um but as as luke and i i'm very sure discussed back when these changes were announced um how it was implemented yeah yeah uh yeah i i think what is what's the word cringe is it yeah is there is there a newer word yikes probably yikes would be a little bit of a fresh yeah i don't know this was just the the writing was on the wall for this like like some someone

should have known at twitch that this was going to happen the second someone suggested this idea and that doesn't necessarily mean that they couldn't have done it but they should have known it was coming and been very very ready um there's no way to be ready for something like that though the thing about live chat is we've been we've been through this ourselves a hundred times is live chat is basically impossible to moderate on a platform at the same scale that twitch is like when you have even let's say it's not a thousand people and some of these hate raids were enormous if you have even a hundred people dropping into a stream the chat gets moving super fast the yeah um there's there's so many of them

like you think about how fast this could be moving with each of them even you know typing every 15 seconds or 30 seconds whatever the default chat settings are um you know that's good that's a really awful experience not just for the streamer but even for the other people in the chat that don't want to see that and don't want to hear that and the thing is it's also really really rough for moderators that like are a lot a lot of these channels and i'm saying this because the vast majority of channels on twitch are very small so i'm not i'm not targeting this community and saying that their channels are small to be very clear but just if you're a channel on twitch the likeliness is you're a small channel on twitch yeah i'm a small channel on twitch um the the vast majority moderators

and and even then it's it's going to be moderators and streamers that haven't dealt with that much activity before so they're going to be overwhelmed and it's going to be very difficult for them to act it's extremely difficult to moderate a live chat um especially with a group of people that is probably used to just kind of hanging out with their friends having a good time and not dealing with this type of onslaught um and there's other problems with it so uh if you're offline um it can flag your account and twitch can end up auto banning small users this was pointed out by high kid over in the float plane chat um and there's something you know some people are saying you know oh well the obvious way to fight this is uh follower mode only

or even subscriber only chat but the thing is again if you're a small channel which is who these people are targeting right you can't afford to turn off your chat, right? Because you're effectively... Sorry, keep going. Yeah, you're effectively turning it into just a conversation between a handful of people. Like, that's not... That's really difficult to engage with because a lot of what's so great about Twitch highlights

is the interaction between these huge streamers and their enormous fan bases. You know, they do something and chat explodes, right? You will never have that unless you are an enormous personality on the platform if you limit who can talk in your chat. So basically, they're forcing you to either just deal with the abuse or remain obscure forever because you have no chat to interact with and you can't like you can't really get into a rhythm yeah yeah it's it's really rough and and a lot of the verbiage that we've used is is people we've been saying it like a lot of people are coming to raid your your stream in some i i would wager a lot of these situations most of the people aren't people they're bots

um i mean same could be said of just viewers on twitch got them got them um and like if you if you switch your channel to follower only chat yeah yeah, 10,000 bots can click follow real easy. It's not going to matter. It's rough. There's a point here that says current hate raters use one email address to register unlimited accounts. Wouldn't it be simple to limit this and make botting that much harder? I'm going to insert some text here by making it so that you have to have unique email addresses. Yeah, but you can also like bucket create a very large amount of email addresses on one big swoop.

So that is only going to stop very not high-end attackers. Yes, yeah yeah so there will still be hate raids with that system absolutely um the whole thing's just they should have found a different solution that wasn't tags pretty much yep um you know to be honest though it's tough because i don't actually have a better solution off the top of my head truthfully uh well if you want to like yeah making it easier to the the path of making it easier so that if you uh want users to be able to come to twitch and go i want to find a creator of this type and then find them. Yeah, that's going to be pretty difficult. But you can still promote those users with more exposure to the front page.

Actually, I have a better solution already. So yes, you can do what you are doing. But one of the ways that YouTube curates your experience on the platform is they ask you questions about what you're consuming. So when you when you watch a video, it'll give you like a survey that you can respond to, to say what you liked about it, I found it really engaging, or I found it funny, or I found this, or I found that. And so you know, something you could do is and this would make it a lot easier to filter out bots before they can actually do any damage is over time as a user an actual

user interacts with content you could ask them questions about the experience that would eventually guide you to an algorithmic um predisposition for this user to uh to expose them to these uh to these kind of every type of creator they're looking for yeah more niche creators or uh these particular groups and it's a longer it's a longer term fix but i think it's also a better one uh more elegant for it's it's a better one for both the creators and for the people who are looking for them to just sort of naturally be recommended people that you might find a connection with. It's a difficult thing, but the dating system is a minefield. To be clear, we're not suggesting a solution that we could build we don't have the engineering to build something like that but let's not kid ourselves amazon absolutely can if amazon

can manage to you know try to recommend you something to buy before you've ever even heard it i'm sure they can figure out who you might like to watch on twitch. So yeah, no, this is not some kind of impossible mountain to climb. It's just a really, really terrible, terrible implementation. And the thing is, like, it's not like I take any pleasure from saying I told you so on this one. This sucks. No, this does suck. on this one this sucks no this does suck and you know it's it's just yet another it's just yet another reason for people who are already feeling disenfranchised to feel discriminated against it's it's adding insult to injury it's it's and it's just for me for me one of the biggest modifiers um you know for how bad i will feel about something is how unnecessary it is.

You know, when, um, when, when someone, when someone, um, you know, when someone dies because they selflessly sacrifice themselves to save 10,000 other people know what i mean um that's really sad but something good came out of it right like it was it it feels like there was something on the other side of this equation that was like oh but this was necessary this is how it can be justified sadness is also not like essentially the only way to respond like you you can be very anger out of you can be very yeah you may be out of that person yeah like you can it's it's a very honorable act like you can respect things like yeah but then you look at something like the sandy hook massacre and you go it was just utterly

unnecessary you know um and and obviously it'd be hard to come up with any good reason why a small child should die. But I can't think of, I certainly can't think of a worse one than for no reason whatsoever. So, you know, for me, that's the thing that makes this kind of hate so much more offensive is how utterly unnecessary it is the way that the people doing this are going out of their way like it's not there you're you're walking it's like it's like you're walking on opposite sides of the street right and there's like it's a busy street full of cars and you're like you're you're dodging in and out of traffic so you can go and bother somebody who's just walking down the street. Take a look at it.

Hang out with their friends, play some video games, or do whatever else, and you're just ruining their day. Yeah. Yeah, it sucks. The whole thing sucks. Yep.

In other news, hey, we've got a big event coming up. This is not necessary, but it's a good thing, so it's good we are doing another game show this time it is going to be pc or no pc uh loosely inspired by deal or no deal we are looking for two awesome people to be contestants uh on september 16th in the Langley, Surrey area in British Columbia. But instead of money in the cases,

we are going to have tech slash server slash PC hardware for people to potentially win. You have to be 18 or over, live in BC, Canada, and you must be vaccinated to attend. We will ask for proof of vaccination. If you are interested, you can sign up through the link below or you can find the link on a tweet that we posted yesterday. I look forward very much

to seeing you there and it is going to be a lot of fun. Super chats? Yeah, I think other than that, that pretty much wraps it. I missed some of the early ones because YouTube still hasn't fixed that bug. See, look, this is as high as I can go. How stupid is that? Anyway the point is RedWolf. I recently bought the last 3080 at my

local microcenter three hours away only for it to be a lemon and I've sent it to Gigabyte and got it back with no fix. What should I do? Well you should RMA it again because or you should figure out why they don't think it's broken. That is under warranty, so it shouldn't be a problem for you to get it fixed. If a gigabyte won't help you, Micro Center should, especially if it was broken right away, like you say it was a lemon. Lei says, the gaming limit in China is actually part of a larger effort of making educating your kids easier, along with things like banning tutoring schools the end goal is

encouraging people to have more kids that is a fascinating way to go about achieving that goal i wish them the best of luck but this is kind of what i was talking about on that subject though is like there's there's so much we're ignorant to when it comes to china in general so any of these policy things like yeah it sounds whack to me but like i don't necessarily know and like i i don't think there is a lot of i don't know i i like more freedom and autonomy and blah blah blah but like i don't know what's behind it i don't know what the reasons are for it i don't know what the the social situations are there that are like i don't like there's so many variables that are up in the air yeah um man there's any number of reasons that they might be banning these uh tutoring schools uh nixon says my brother's in canada and he's your biggest fan hey sweet um cs says hey i'm a big fan

trying to build my first pc but i live in an apartment with carpet floor. How should I go about building the PC without damaging my parts from ESD? Well, what we learned in our collab with ElectroBoom is that it's actually really hard to damage your parts with ESD. So there's that. Also, if you watch the first person view build guide,

it's this one right here. First person, oops, fist person person first person build a pc uh this one right here first person pc build guide pov i go through all the steps that you need to protect yourself from zapping your components in that one arse dragonfly says it's not games that negatively affect mental health chinese parents fail miserably at giving their children a meaningful life. What are you even talking about? Why did I even read this chat? That's a really stupid chat.

See you later. Zatteralius says, I did my master's thesis on video game culture. There are numerous studies all pointing toward positive in video games that dwarf the negatives yeah that's fair enough um you might make the argument that some of the positives we've gained from video games might be unnecessary if we were just all outside interacting with each other more so also also in what amount right because they can still play for an hour a day Yeah, which is actually like Kind of a fair amount of time for a little kid

Pretty major amount of time Yeah Kang Yu says The problem is that In China, giant game companies Are promoting games solely on microtransactions That kids would spend their family savings on it Yeah, that's fair enough

There's already a limit on how much they can spend yeah that was already a thing back in 2019 uh ran re says yo linus when you're cutting the beard off i miss my twink linus well if to transform into twink linus is the only reason to do it i don't know if that's a very compelling argument uh josh says just here to say australia needs to rebel in the name of freedom rebel rebel against what do you have any idea what that what the context is for that nope

when you first started talking about that I was assuming he was going to be talking about internet connections because I very recently checked how much we pay to get people float playing in australia and it made me um very sad so i thought he was talking about that oh got it all right uh genius uh okay next man what is with these super chats today okay yeah i can you says it's a it's called a pull card scheme game similar to loot boxes okay

so this is elaborating on that uh david billa says got a really sick email from nick light about my ltt store account just want to let you guys know you make great stuff and have great service thanks can't wait for the screwdriver heck yeah heck yeah heck yeah um okay well Heck yeah. Heck yeah. Okay. Well, yeah. Kinestic says, it's an important and well-meaning thing, but the part that always annoys me about a day off Twitch and other social media blackouts is it gets to the day and people are mad

because Aussies are streaming because time zones. Yeah, that's a pretty good point. And I guess that's pretty much it for the WAN show today. Raphael says, I bought a sad Linus desk pad. It is pog. Hey, as long as it doesn't destroy your desk like it did with Quinn. Did you see snazzy? Okay, it's bad.

It's bad. Okay, so one day, okay, one day installs a sad linus desk pad okay next day desk destroyed coincidence i think not so you just be careful okay that quality it's heavy sad linus has evolved into angry linus all right we'll see you guys next week same bad time same bad channel bye Outro Music