The WAN Show - Has AMD Become the Monster they Slayed?? - WAN Show May 8, 2020

Episode Date: May 11, 2020

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You know what's great about ambition? You can't see it. Some things look ambitious, but looks can be deceiving. For example, a runner could be training for a marathon, or they could be late for the bus. You never know. Ambition is on the inside. So that goal to beat your personal best? Keep chasing it. Drive your ambition mitsubishi motors what is up my ladies and gentlemen so welcome to the wan show we are gonna have a fantastic show for you today apple has a new 13 inch macbook what wow making another macbook i thought they didn't even care about macbooks anymore i thought they just wanted to make airpods actually it does look all right it does look all right all right amd

this is really this is the big story this week amd not supporting zen 3 on older motherboards why are they doing this well why would they hurt everyone maybe maybe they just lived long enough to become the villain as the title of the video today seems to suggest it is uh obviously a little bit more nuanced than that what else we got just a little bit xbox series x gameplay reveal temporarily taken down i i don't know about that part it's definitely back up at this point and it's backlash over uh lack of almost any gameplay and i watched it and that is true there is probably seconds worth of gameplay across a 30 minute video i'm excited to hear about that what else we got and amd releases ryzen 3 third gen okay that's cheating anthony should not get his points for putting this topic in the wan show doc

because he was the one who wrote the review that we did. So all he had to do was take his notes and copy paste them in. That's brilliant. Look at this. Source three, us. It's a link to our video. I'm going to watch a Linus Tech Tips video to talk about it on the WAN show. That's what we need written articles for you know what i've had enough of your crap anthony i'm rolling that intro that's awesome oh man what a

nerd because you know he knows what he's doing you know you knew what you were doing someone asked is this pre-recorded yeah this is our fourth one of the day so yeah yeah they're all pre-recorded it's like we pre-record them so hard they're more like post-recorded you know like that's that's my new i'm gonna be like post malone this is post when you know it's like the next level when, the end times of when. All right. Why don't we jump right into our first big topic for the day? And this is already causing big waves in the tech community. There's already a thread on the forum that is, so this was originally posted 12 hours ago by NK1987. It's a good year good year 1987 not quite as good a year as the one before it but decent decent year um and k 1987 says that uh hardware unbox asked the question

specifically and amd seemed to have replied that all future AGESA code for Zen 3 will not support anything but 5XX series motherboards. This doesn't seem to be like in the past when vendors have added support for A320 boards, but more like when AMD updated the AGESA to lock out PCI Express 4 on X470 boards. So there is a huge mixture of reaction all the way from people expressing their frustration to people defending amd's position here let's go ahead and give you guys sort of the very short version of the notes here so zen 3 is the upcoming amd ryzen 4000 series processors that is the desktop ones 4000 series processors on mobile are in fact zen 2 confused yet i don't blame you uh hey look at that we've got a compatibility matrix wow wonderful work

luke it's kind of cut off but actually sort of maybe useful um you know what yeah oh wow oh wow that's spectacular you know what it's it's great. You know what? You try hard. I love it. So Zen 3. Zen 3 is AMD's upcoming architecture that we're going to find in their desktop 4000 series processors. And it sounds, at least from AMD's hints and teasing, like it is going to be a very significant upgrade. Like people are expecting this to be the one where they go from being really competitive with Intel CPU offerings, but at very compelling prices and with a core count advantage

where if you happen to have a workload that takes advantage of more cores, then it'll be more performant. But if you're a raw gamer, you're probably better off sticking with Intel. We're gonna go from that situation to that. You know, the feeling we're getting is AMD leapfrogging Intel in a significant way

where across the board, they are going to be the performance leader. And so there's a lot of people out there with AMD motherboards based on AMD's guidance so far and based on their attitude so far towards, oh, wow, I'm accidentally streaming at 60 FPS. Well, there you go. I had meant to set it to 30. Based on AMD's attitude so far towards backwards and forwards compatibility between their motherboard chipsets and their CPUs, there's people out there that are sitting there with AMD motherboards like, yeah, I'm going to upgrade to Zen 3.

I'm going Ryzen 4000 series. As soon as this thing drops, boom, you will not. So it looks like Zen 3 will only be supported on B550 and X570, which means that unless you bought a new motherboard to go with your Zen 2, that unless you bought a new motherboard to go with your Zen 2 Ryzen 3000 series, so third gen processor, you are going to be plumb out of luck. The farthest you're going to be able to go

is Ryzen third gen. People seem to be pretty annoyed, but in fairness to AMD, let's have a look at how long AM4 has been going strong. It was announced in 2016, delivered in early 2017, and they are actually still releasing processors for this platform. And as long as your older motherboard did get a BIOS update from the manufacturer to support these new chips,

there are people out there running very early boards with very new CPUs. And what's really cool about having that option is that it means that if you are not the kind of person who has a ton of money, you bought a board back over three years ago, three and a half years ago, you bought a motherboard, you said, look, I'm betting on AMD, and you would have gotten what was like a good chip back then? You know, maybe you picked yourself up a Ryzen 1600, all right? So let's have a look at why am I in French by default here?

All right. So the Ryzen 5 1600 processor. Here's the specifications. I'm going to pull this up. I can't show it to you guys, but whatever. It's got six cores, all right? Maximum boost frequency up to 3.6 gigahertz it had like a decent um oh wow you've got there's two linuses now thanks luke uh okay so that's you know decent boost frequency you had decent ipc base frequency 3.2 and it had 12 threads. Okay, that was a great value. But Zen 2 is so much faster

that if you were to run out and go on newegg.com and let's have a look. Ryzen 2600. For $168, you could move to six cores of 3.4 gigahertz base, 3.9 gigahertz boost. Much faster IPC. This is a way better processor for 168 bucks. Plus you can probably flip your 1600X. Okay. So ebay.com here, suckers. Let's have a look.

So Verizon 1600. Oh, did I say, sorry, 1600, non-1600, 1600 non-X. Okay. So that thing is still worth, looks like about $100 on eBay. Anywhere from $100 to $120. So over a span of three and a half years, you could have gone from what was pretty competitive back then to cutting edge now for the difference between these $200 or whatever. That's looking pretty good to me for for a cpu upgrade path and this is jen like i know i know he's he's mentioned this a couple times but

this has actually been a really long amount of time of compatibility and they have already held back certain features due to trying to keep this platform going for a longer period of time. Oh, yeah. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. No, no. Hit me. So the super enthusiasts should kind of want this to a certain degree anyways. With that said, I want to play devil's advocate to myself here and say compared to what Intel does, is AMD really out ahead by that much because that's intel's uh that's intel's game right so every every motherboard every new motherboard chipset

launches with a new cpu and then you get like one cpu upgrade there was actually one case where we got uh where we got two it was the uh what was it devil's canyon refresh or something like that so where uh you had the 3770k the 4770k and then the 4790k was like sort of a sort of an upgrade for it but it realistically it was just like a tweaked 4770k but if you kind of go and look back at it okay we got zen we got zen, which was a bigger tweak than Devil's Canyon for sure. And then we got Zen 2 on those motherboards. We only really got two full CPU refreshes. We got like two and a half kind of thing.

And that is better than Intel. But if you look at their Threadripper platform, it was the same thing, right? We actually got a new socket with the third gen Threadripper. So they was the same thing, right? We actually got a new socket with the third gen Threadripper. So they only managed to do two generations on that one. And then we actually, I don't know if we know if TRX4, or STRX4, socket TRX4 is getting, I think it is probably getting another generation. I don't know if that's actually formally confirmed. So don't take all of this for the ignorant ramblings that it is. But I think there's a couple of things we have

to acknowledge here. One is kudos to AMD for making a good effort here. Because one difference is that even though they only managed two and a half, hey, they managed two and a half. And through the work of their board partners, updating their biases, there are people out there who really did get three and a half years worth of upgrades on a motherboard that's freaking awesome number two is that by keeping the same am4 socket even though the chipset compatibility is uh a little bit dicier they are creating a lot of confusion in their lineup something that I have heard cited as a reason that Intel does not do this. They don't want confusion in the lineup. If you buy this and you buy this, it will work that simple. So AMD has taken that risk. They

have taken the risk of creating confusion in their lineup to have as good of intercompatibility as they possibly can. And what's neat is that instead of going, okay, I've got a CPU and a motherboard, and then in two years, they will both be complete dead-end platforms. At least if you were to upgrade, let's say you bought your original motherboard back three and a half years ago,

and you were to upgrade your motherboard today in preparation for Zen 3, right? You go get an X570 or a B550 board, well now you can have third gen and then probably maybe something else after that. We've got this overlap between the motherboard and CPU compatibility so that at least if you buy two things the odds of both of them becoming a dead end at the same time is lower. And as an upgrader, as someone who frequently over the years would upgrade my computer piecemeal, that's something that's very appealing to me. You know, I've got a motherboard I already like.

I'll grab a new CPU. You know what? I don't need a new CPU today. This is enough performance for me, but I want some new motherboard features that are super sexy. Go get a new motherboard. That's a pretty cool way for an enthusiast to move their system forward. Do you think that's that common these days no and that's another one of the big reasons that um intel that i've heard

off the record from you know citation needed sources at intel that's one of the big reasons that i've heard for them to not really pursue it as hard. So it creates a ton of confusion. It creates a ton of customer angst. Like I experienced it for the first time personally, the BIOS intercompatibility issues with AM4 motherboards that can arise and be very, very frustrating. Like I was building a system last week

and I built the whole thing up i water cooled it should have should have post-tested it before i actually water cooled it but whatever you know you live and learn or you just live one way or the other yep okay i boot the thing up and no post and there's no indication right it's not like it makes a special beep code when you install an incompatible cpu it just like the power flicked on for a second and then off and then on and then off and then it looked like just kind of a standard uh post fail right and i was like fortunately i'm tech savvy enough and i have access to a warehouse full of cpus 20 minutes away that i was able to go oh you know what it's probably a bios compatibility issue and i ran over to the warehouse grabbed a Ryzen 1600 or 2600 or

something like that, popped it in there. Yep, sure enough, it fires right up, flash the BIOS, put my third gen 3900X back in there and we're off to the races. But I can see why a company might shy away from that as a user experience because a lot of your brand as a company is built on how people feel when they buy and use your product. And that was not a good user experience. That's the cold hard truth of it. And I will confess, I did not fully and properly understand the problem with AMD's BIOS intercompatibility problems. So I was using a B450 board with a Ryzen 3rd Gen and my logic based on you know the 15 years or whatever I've been into this stuff was hey it's been so long since the

B450 and Ryzen 3rd Gen launches that they should be out of the box compatible by now. I don't have to worry about doing a BIOS update in order to run this chip. That is straight up not how it works. So part of the reason for them dropping the compatibility now, and part of the reason that the compatibility is so messy, is that the flash chips, so the ROM chips on these motherboards cannot hold enough data to have all the code that they need to be compatible with every CPU that could feasibly be plugged into it. And it's like, oh, yeah, that makes so much sense now. These are physical limitations. So we've actually seen compromises be made. So the board that I was using was an

ASRock board. You have to go on ASRock's website and it specifically says download this version of the new bios if you're running one of these cpus download this one if you're running these cpus that's that's a that's a bad user experience i mean i went through i went through trying to get my grandparents set up with an ipad over the phone last weekend and like obviously that's a pretty extreme example it took like four hours um well it's like little things like they didn't know their wi-fi password because why would they they don't have any like wi-fi devices and then their tell us i was like okay we need to look at the telus box well they have two telus boxes stacked on top of each other so you know that was a stumbling block uh their their imac

is so old that um browser support has been dropped from almost every major browser. There's some kind of Firefox clone. It's like Ice Fox or something like that, Arctic Fox, that will still run on it, but they didn't have that installed. So even accessing their routers, even accessing their routers UI to log in as an admin, the login button was just not there. So I'm like, I'm like pulling my grandpa over the phone. I'm like, just click the login button. He's like, there's the login button was just not there so i'm like i'm like calling my grandpa over the

phone i'm like just click the login button he's like there's no login button i'm like no i'm looking at like screenshots on on google of like where the login button is you're everything else about this page that you're describing to me is right click the login button he's like it's not there random random pro tip i would recommend uh and i've used this when when trying to help my grandpa with something set it up with team viewer before you send it to him it if you can get them to get team viewer going which is potentially a whole different issue yeah i couldn't get them on wi-fi this is actually how i got them to the point of being able to get team viewer working yeah uh which is i could you can usually get them to engage in a video call um i didn't have get on wi-fi so but their phone they didn't

have they don't have a cell phone yeah no no this was like yeah i i had to put on a mask and gloves and just go there and the stupid thing is that once i got there it legitimately wasn't simple because of the browser compatibility issues they had no other web browser capable device in the building that was able to go in and reconfigure the password for their wi-fi that they had um that they had forgotten so it's like okay great and the the UI for that TELUS combination Wi-Fi modem router thing is so bad. So when you change something and change something else, then click save, the first thing you change doesn't change. Apparently, you just have to do one field at a time.

At least in Arctic Fox, which is what I was using, right? Were you using Water Fox? No, Arctic Fox. Oh, interesting. Yeah, it's like specifically for old iMacs or something. Fox, wow. Yeah, I know, right? Anyway, what were we talking about?

What were we talking about? Oh, yeah, right. It's a bad user experience. So obviously that's a bit of an extreme example, but not everyone is me. And if I am frustrated by the out-of-the-box experience, I guarantee you the average, like me when I was 15 years old,

buying my first computer, realizing that I have to go, what, like find a friend. I didn't have any friends. Go find a friend who has a CPU that's compatible with my motherboard, convince them to let me rip the CPU out of their computer and put it in there or like hope that the store has a fast and convenient policy.

Service center, yeah. Right? And now I have to like go and pay for that or not. and put it in there or like hope that the store has a has a fast and convenient policy yeah right and now i have to like go and pay for that or or not i know some places do it for free it's just it's just not a great user experience so i i i see it from both sides i see the amd community feeling a little betrayed but i also see amd making an earnest effort to maintain this compatibility even to the detriment of their user experience. And I see why they might want to clean this up moving forward. That's my take. Yeah, I guess I understand that. I think I'm definitely not more on the side

of the AMD community feeling betrayed because if they kept this going, it would just get worse and worse. Yes. And that's not a good solution yeah and you're i think you're like a lot of people where by the time you upgrade your cpu a it's probably time to upgrade like when you upgrade your system you're rocking a 5960x if i recall correctly is that right yep yeah so you know eight cores of a haswell ain't that fast

these days not at those clock speeds um by the time you're upgrading your cpu you know eight cores of a haswell ain't that fast these days not at those clock speeds um by the time you're upgrading your cpu you know what hey you might also want some new high speed actually you might want some new higher bandwidth usb ports yeah yeah so we had an issue right before the call why don't you explain what happened i uh i i've been plugging it so i i use a camcorder for this now because yay upgrades uh and i've been plugging my avio 4k capture card into the same usb plug every time and it's been working every time but i changed how i had my vr setup done and i moved where it was plugged in via usb so that controller had more bandwidth going through it so the camera would just like stop working constantly yep very frustrating but i just needed to plug it in somewhere else and it

solved all the problems immediately yeah um so yeah no that would be great i i'm probably waiting for ryzen third gen to be cheap in the linus linus media group store after fourth gen comes out that's what i would expect you to do pretty much yeah you're probably gonna go you're probably gonna go 3900x you know like not full baller tier because i don't think you need 16 cores you don't want to pay an extra like you know 300 for that or whatever yeah see i'm on to you i know what you're about yeah yeah what do you think i'm planning on graphics side oh graphic side know what you're about yeah yeah what do you think i'm planning on graphics side oh graphic side well you're definitely not going sli again i know that for a fact not a chance that has been such a

bad experience for you um you know what i think the timing is going to be really good for like the the rumors are already starting to swirl around an upcoming RTX refresh. I think that NVIDIA is very unlikely to make dramatic changes to the NVENC encoder, which I think is the only reason that you could be persuaded to go RTX 3000 series. So my guess is you're going to try and sweet talk me into a 2080 Ti for a song right when RTX 3000 series launches.

That's your move. That's got to be your move. He nailed it. Literally every part of the plan. Yeah, yeah, that's it. That was it. I'm really excited for upgrading to the new NVENC encoding stuff on the 2000 series and rtx voice

looks awesome yeah and that sounds great yeah yeah all right all right i i know i know i know luke uh why don't we talk about apple's new macbook uh this is actually this is pretty good news so apple launches a new 13 inch macbook pro we've got it on order. It's featuring Intel's Ice Lake CPUs and the new old scissor-style keyboard. Externally, not much has changed, but it's a bit thicker and 30 grams heavier. Apple, for better... Not because they're actually listening,

but maybe it's by accident. Apple seems to be listening to me more than not listening to me over the last couple of years. They have done a lot of stuff that has annoyed me, but they've also done a lot of stuff that I think is super cool over the last few years, including a 10 gigabit networking on the Mac mini. That's sick. So the fact that every desktop Mac now features 10 gig networking, at least as an option. Oh, wait, no, I don't think the iac does the imac pro the mac pro and the

um and the mac mini though are all at least have 10 gig networking as an option um their cooling has gotten better they've improved their keyboard like dang you know dang apple so the new ice lake processor the high version, sports a 2.3 gig base, 4.1 turbo. That is a quad core, if I recall correctly. No, that should be a six core. Let me just, I'm going to double check so I don't say anything stupid, right? You know, that is four CPU cores.

Four cores. And these are probably like U class. Yeah, so they haven't changed the battery capacity. It's still about 58 watt hours, so these are probably kind of U-class-ish CPUs. They're using Intel Iris Plus graphics, and dang, we've gone to LPDDR4X. That is going to be a nice little improvement to system snappiness. Also, we've got four Thunderbolt 3 ports. Pretty sweet. So that was already present on the higher end one.

That's present here. Okay, what else is interesting? Rated 10 hours of battery life. So the big upgrades really are that we're going to Ice Lake and that we've got LPDDR4X memory. That took a long time to come around. I mean, DDR5 is already on the horizon. So we ordered what we think is kind of a sensible spec here. I don't think we took the top spec CPU,

and I think we went with... I think Anthony talked me into a one terabyte drive. He was like, well, boot camp, right? And I'm like, oh, yeah, I guess that's a fair point, isn't it? You don't want less than like... Are you guys going to use it? He wants to talk about it as a use case and I guess he could have just...

Talked about it as a use case? Yeah, why did I spend another $200 on a MacBook? You meet around for your cheap decisions. I don't know. I didn't hear you mention this. You might have mentioned this. Sorry. The lower-end models have two Thunderbolt

ports. Higher-end models have four. Of the new ones of the new ones yeah oh okay so basically that's the same as before then well the the lower end coffee lake models but they're still new models oh why does apple do this yeah so they're muddying the waters i see so only the new high-end ones get ice lake i mean that's man intel has had such 10 nanometer struggles so ice lake is 10 nan oh no that's wrong it's just showing up weird on this chart oh okay my bad okay never mind you know what why don't we just go to apple.com i don't do this often i'm gonna treat myself this is a very expensive website ladies and gentlemen it is an extremely expensive website that is true all right uh new macbook pro 13 inch here we are up to 10th generation processors with up to 80 faster graphics performance wow that is that is such a that is such a sideways swipe at intel right there yep they're 10th gen all right and yep up to faster graphics but they

sure ain't faster in any other meaningful way hey got him um okay so we got our wow this is their buy page but this configuration page is actually terrible hold on a second i'm gonna screen share you guys on this for a second. I really do not like this at all. Chrome. Yeah, there you go. All right. There we go. Let's pull this up here, ladies and gentlemen.

Look at this. What am I looking at? I can't click on any of this. I can't. This is tech specs. I think your screen is not right my screen is not right in what sense you select one of the models already no i just clicked tech specs 13 inch look so mac macbook pro tech specs it's like stupid like what does this correspond to oh like how sloppy is that

these look like buttons but i can't click them so that's not the configurator thing though that's just the random tech specs of those that range of laptops right but like what i hear you i hear you for sure why can't they just say core i5 whatever why why do they why do they do this their own Fancy special way They do if you go to like buy it 1.4 GHz Quad core 8th generation Intel Core i5

Comma turbo boost up to 3.9 GHz Comma with 128 MB Of ED RAM How did they manage to make Intel's Naming scheme which is already Abominable, even more confusing, configurable to this? Okay. I guess they just don't use it.

It's kind of funny, actually, in a way. Wow. All right. So the buy page. See, this is much easier to understand. The buy page is a little better. It's still i mean they still don't say the actual model name of the processor and stuff yeah but like it's the specs are laid out better so there you go we've got a bunch of new models but the anything but the top

end one is not really new in any sort of meaningful sense of the word because it's still coffee lake and it's still lp ddr3 so that was the part i was confused about but i looked it up and like the this page of macbook pros choose your new macbook pros goes all the way back to 2018 right so like do they at least have the better keyboard though backlit magic keyboard yes so they've at least got a better keyboard though? Backlit Magic Keyboard. Yes. So they've at least got a better keyboard. So that's good. Cool. All right.

What else we got for the WAN Show today? Oh, we should talk about our sponsors. Sponsors for the WAN Show. All right. The WAN Show today is brought to you by Displate. What else do I need to say about it? There are metal prints that you hang on your wall, but you don't have to hang them.

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a lifetime license for 49.95 use offer code linus tech tips to save 10 i just oh yeah so uh at the link in the video description um i like that a lot i'm not a huge fan of software as a service we did a video recently about how upset i was at how much i pay adobe which really is about ten thousand dollars a year between all the editors and the other creative types because almost everyone in the company uses more than just one thing in the suite and And once you use more than one, like as soon as you buy two individual tools, it costs nearly as much as the entire creative suite. And obviously they've structured it that way on purpose. Otherwise, most people like don't use Adobe Prelude, for example, and would be happy to just not pay for it. That would be great.

and would be happy to just not pay for it, that would be great. But anyway, I talked about how frustrated I was paying so much for software as a service and how I would rather just have the option. If I like it exactly the way it is today and I don't expect it to change at all to just plonk down my money one time and I expect it to be a pretty high fee

because that's how that works, to just own it forever. I like that as an option. Kino has sort of a similar approach with them. You can pay on an ongoing basis and you get like kind of a support contract built into that effectively. And then if you stop paying, you still get to keep the software as it is. I think you just don't get support on it. Like, yeah, that's a good it's a good compromise because not everybody wants that uh xbox series x gameplay reveal was temporarily taken down amidst backlash over the lack of gameplay i didn't watch it tell me about it actually wild um this like i opened it up and i watched the whole thing vaguely on a side monitor while I was doing

other stuff. And what blew my mind about it was watching the intro. I was like, okay, they have like world premiere. That looks like someone took some vague Xbox colors for a background and then word art and just wrote world premiere. So it seemed like, okay, production quality is not exactly super high here maybe someone just threw something together and uploaded it whatever um and then you get some interviews in there that are like really high ups at microsoft like thanking the quarterback that won the super bowl for introing the new madden game. And it's like, oh, wow. Okay. And there's a rather extreme lack of actual gameplay.

The length of the video is quite surprising. It's 27 minutes and 44 seconds. They have a lot of games. It's like half an hour, basically. It's really long. They have a lot of games that they intro. And I would say the majority of them probably have zero seconds of included actual gameplay. Okay.

And the ones that do have any actual gameplay, a lot of them, it's kind of questionable of whether or not it is actual gameplay because it's very much spliced among definitely cinematics uh so it's not really certain if it's like a cinematic of gameplay which isn't really real or right like an in-engine but pre-rendered type of cinematic yeah it's really hard to tell the difference yes they do have notices uh before a lot of the games I'm not sure if it's all of them. It might be all of them that say it's in engine.

Yeah. But like, it doesn't really mean anything when it's a cinematic. Yes. So yeah, it's, it's completely BS and I'm honestly surprised it has as many likes as it does.

And I'm assuming it does just from people that like watched it and ignored the word gameplay. And we're like, hey, half an hour of trailers. That's cool. So they just they watched half an hour of ads, basically. Yeah. And they like they talk about Assassin's Creed Valhalla at the beginning. And then it's the last one that they show.

And and the like main host for the whole thing goes like and that's it uh-huh just kidding there's assassin's creed valhalla like it's very much a setup thing and then valhalla has as far as i can tell zero seconds of gameplay it's just a trailer wow really feels like just a trailer that's embarrassing maybe their gameplay has become extremely cinematic um but i'm pretty sure it's just you know you'd think they would have learned from last time you know remember when they launched the xbox one and they were like okay it's a media hub and then sony was like you idiots the playstation 4 is a game console 4 as a game console yeah mic drop one console generation like guys please take the actual gaming seriously it just doesn't seem that hard does it is it no i and i just skimmed through the

valhalla part again there's no way any of this is is even attempting at gameplay. It should have been like an engine, like first look Xbox Series X games in engine or something. And like, that's cool. That's fine. Or just teasing. Teasing the Xbox Series X launch title lineup. Whatever. And that could have maybe been cool.

But they just have to stop being so disrespectful of people's intelligence like then again you know apparently however many 15 000 people couldn't tell or didn't care so 19 yeah 19 000 people liked it more people disliked it than liked it though yes i really don't think you're gaining like a ton from people watching a massive amount of trailers i'm sure a lot of them got skipped through i was gonna say like a small portion of a video but i'm sure they just skipped through to find games they're interested in i had a really good question in the twitch chat i actually i can't see who asked it anymore oh what's that i just want to show the world premiere thing um

no it's fine i want to screen capture uh oh here it is terrazoidal asks are you guys going to talk about the wink smart home hub going paid only uh this has been causing very very small waves or big waves in a small community why don't we we say that? Because it's a pretty niche community. But Wink Smart Hub. Basically, it's a product that helps you manage multiple ecosystems of smart products from one device or from one controller. And my understanding was that there was a free option at least available in the past. So once you bought the product you were able to run it for free but they basically went hey surprise next week and I think the price is going to be five dollars a month I want to say.

Here we go introducing Wink's subscription. So this just happened a couple days ago. I was sort of paying attention to this out of the corner of my eye. Yep, we are transitioning to a $4.99 monthly subscription on May 13th, 2020. So people got effectively one week of notice. This fee is designed to be as modest as possible. $5 a month is not modest. a month is not modest. That's like, I really enjoy this service and I like really care about it. That is $60 a year. Should you choose not to sign up for a subscription, you will no longer be able to access your Wink devices from the app with voice control or through the api and your automations will be disabled on may 13th like straight up we are turning this off your device connection settings and automations can be reactivated if you decide to subscribe at a later date so effectively anyone who bought it um has a paperweight now if they don't want to pay the subscription this is a pretty this is the kind of bait and switch that i don't really understand how they don't want to pay the subscription this is a pretty this is the kind of bait and switch that i don't really understand how it doesn't lead to a lawsuit unless they were really careful with their terms of service in the lead up to this yeah honestly i was trying to

figure out if anything other than the banner at the top that says subscribe now to keep your service active which is so aggro by the way when it's all capital and underscored um yeah but i was i was trying to see if there's anywhere else on the site that that says that you have to pay a subscription and i'm trying to add it to my cart to see if it tells me that and yeah i can't oh yeah no add to cart's not working yeah interesting i mean there's been speculation that these guys have been running out of money. Apparently, I actually don't know if I have notes on here.

So I'm talking off the top of my head. So I'm just going to say, allegedly, allegedly. Allegedly, their staff have not been paid in some time, which is always a bad sign. Literally every time, that's a bad sign. So I understand why they're doing it. I think that they could have probably, you know, I mean, maybe they have no money, you know.

I was going to say maybe they could have hired a PR firm to walk them through doing this in a way that's a little bit less confrontational. If they had maybe said, hey guys, here's the situation. We are out of money. so we're instituting a voluntary subscription to support our ongoing development. Please subscribe if you care about Wink and you want it to have a future. We're going to do five bucks a month. And then if three months later, six months later, they had said, hey, there's some features that are no longer available to

our free tier. Here's what they are. And then six months later, they went, hey, there's some features that are no longer available to our free tier. Here's what they are. And then six months later, they went, hey, yeah, you're going to have to pay. If they had boiled the frog a little bit on this, I think they could have avoided a lot of this backlash. But as it is now, this is just such a slap in the face. But they may have just been that desperate. It's hard to say unless you're a fly on the wall for these conversations. that desperate it's hard to say unless you're a you're a fly on the wall for these conversations so it looks like uh i'm assuming you can't add anything to cart until you like create an account and it also looks like on the create an account page they make it pretty clear now that you need to no long-term commitments except that you like bought this device. See, I find it so offensive

when companies try to double dip, right? Like I remember buying a drop cam and realizing that I just paid $200 for a device that I then had to pay a monthly subscription for. No, just no. Bake it into the subscription or charge me a premium for your shiny device

those are the options does that mean that you would prefer minimum uh terms then because like if they're going to bake it into the subscription they're going to have to have you subscribe for a minimum amount of time sure then you're still going to be paying the 200 it's just on like a payment plan basically that's fair but then i think that there's probably some uh there's probably some some some economic modeling that can be done to go okay well instead of 200 the draw cam could be 30 bucks which is below our cost of 42 dollars and 61 cents but most people will probably subscribe for at least a couple months there's a middle ground then but by that when you pay 200 for that stupid thing which is you know basically what like a pi zero and a cheap camera on it

like let's get real here for a minute that's not working money off the device and the subscription exactly exactly yeah makes sense can't really argue against that too much i don't think uh i just i basically just wouldn't want to be in a situation where like if i actually liked the product and they increased the monthly to make it so that i covered the cost of the device uh i wouldn't want to have to keep paying that monthly for way past when i would have paid for the device right um says says a good way to do it is the 200 includes x number of months for free my problem with that is they usually cheap out on it like they give it to you for like three months or something yeah and that's that i find that really

i find that really frustrating yeah they could even do a thing where like you have to put in your credit card first uh but then it gives you like a year for free yeah or something yep a year or like a couple years like if this thing is good enough that i'm in it for the long haul here then put your money where your mouth is right yeah especially when you factor in how little some of these services cost like with uh with the drop cam in particular which is now nest cam uh the the paid subscription didn't even have like perpetual data storage or anything like i wasn't paying for cloud storage it was it was like temporary storage it was just like how much of it it's like this is so little bandwidth that you guys are basically just milking it at this point.

Yeah. What else we got to discuss today? Microsoft confirms that Windows 10X will be coming to laptops. So that's the dual screen tablet style edition of Windows that was originally designed for highly mobile devices. Apparently will be making its first appearance on single screen devices. So this is a quote with Windows 10X, we designed for flexibility and that flexibility

has enabled us to pivot our focus towards single screen. So it's like, okay. Anthony previously looked at Windows 10X, the beta of it on ShortCircuit, where he saw what he considered a very Windows 8-like UI, complete with full-screen apps and relegating native Windows 32 apps to running in special containers

in order to focus on UWP apps. Microsoft claims this is to improve power efficiency, and he expressed a concern that it may end up on more consumer devices than just special purpose ones. And it seems like this is happening. job anthony except that you cheated and you used another video that you shot as a wan show topic again way to go anthony you know that's what my uncle always says though you know you got to leverage your work leverage leverage leverage don't do work twice when you can do work

once and leverage it twice i'm like okay thank you thank you uncle skip i appreciate that there's there's an event going on on the forum right now the ltd forum yes and tathlon so we've talked about folding at home and the amazing things that the ltd folding at home team has been doing and this won't even fully disrupt that this is still using your compute power to help the world. But this one is very CPU focused. So they want you to set up Boink to run Rosetta at home, which is doing COVID compute research and is the marathon event. Rosetta is CPU only, however. So if you set up your Boink to do CPU work for Rosetta at home and help COVID stuff, you can keep running folding at home on your GPU and continue to do COVID research in that way. So just make sure you join LinusTechTips underscore team during the account creation and completion

process. And it's probably also a good idea to change the computing preferences on the project website to about 75% CPUs or two thread, leave two threads free. So your computer is still like usable. Boink can also pause automatically if you fire up something demanding like a game, and then it can resume again when the computer's idle. One other very important piece of Linus Tech Tips related news that we do have to go through this week is that LTX 2020 is officially on ice.

It's out, It's done. We do technically still have a venue booked, but we will not be able to do any kind of event with the sort of scale that we had anticipated this year. I kind of screwed up this whole thing. Speaking of needing PR classes, I was talking about Wink there. i should have just accepted much earlier on that this was going to happen and just canceled it you know months ago like we were still making announcements when other people were

canceling their events and i guess that was just my inexperience and also my hope that we, you know, some kind of, it would turn out to not be as bad as we thought it was or the lockdown restrictions wouldn't be so pervasive or whatever. I just, I kind of, I hoped something good would happen. It didn't. And LTX 2020 is not going to be able to proceed the way that we hoped.

We would, we still want to do something, some kind of fun community engagement slash creator collab thing it just it won't be that um and all i can say now is you know sorry guys uh we really tried i really really wanted to do it this was the year that not only was ltx gonna like really glow up but we might've even made money on it this year. We had a lot of really generous sponsors reach out and say, Hey, you guys have like really created something special here and we want to support it. Uh, we've, we've lost money on it every year. Um, so this was like the year that it was going to be like big time. LTX is a real event now. I was so excited. And now I am bummed. I have some ideas, by the way.

Good. We do too. Very cool and fun things that maybe I can hopefully contribute. That would be freaking awesome. Because we really want to kind of salvage whatever we can out of it. Yeah. Now I'm, like like bummed uh okay in other news nintendo wii source code and design documents were leaked on 4chan of all places after an attack on hosting provider broad on hackers have released a massive dump of technical information about the

nintendo wii it includes source code what for the black the black box, boot zero, boot one, and boot two ROMs, documents describing feature planning and implementation, APIs, internal software, the full OS SDK and source code, source code and info on manufacturing and publishing systems, and more. Ladies and gentlemen, we got him. What? It's been reported that source code for the N64 and GameCube along with debug builds and source code for the N64 and GameCube, along with debug builds and source code for legacy Pokemon games and much, much more is also in there. Nintendo is presumably itching to unleash their lawyers on anyone who so much as hints at using any of this information.

So projects like Dolphin Emulator, for example, are not likely to see much benefit from it. But it's possible that bug fixes for edge cases may find their way in eventually as people become familiar with these documents and code it is an open source project after all yeah so they they could like you know not use the exact source code they could learn from it basically exactly exactly dang nintendo that kind of blows i mean, it's good for the homebrew and hacker community, I guess, but yeah, not great for you. What else we got here?

Starting to run slightly thin. Yeah, starting to run a little bit thin. Microsoft announced a bunch of Surface stuff, so Surface Go 2 has thinner bezels and a bigger screen. It's still a little on the chonky side. Core M3 CPU is apparently 64% faster than the old one, but like that was really slow. Now has the StudioMic that the Pro series has, and it's got Wi-Fi 6. Hey, take that MacBook Air. There's also an LTE model. So that's pretty sick. No pricing, but probably going to start around 500 bucks. Surface Book 3 is basically a Surface Book 2 with better internals 10th gen and gtx 1650 max q or

uh wow 1660 ti max q or quadro rtx 3000 in the 15 inch model wow 1650 max q and 13 inch okay that's pretty cool screen uh releases two times faster from the base and it's got Dolby Atmos. And the Surface headphones too are now in black. Ooh, sexy. And they've also got Surface earbuds. This is kind of a big deal. Sorry, yeah, it's a big deal. And they're also kind of big.

It's a big deal in a couple of ways. The big Surface allows gestures though. So they could be really cool for controlling your audio or they could just be a pain in the butt when you go and scratch your ear. Only time shall tell. No noise canceling 200 us dollars more uh fantastic vpn news yeah there's always great vpn news on wanshow yeah crucial vulnerabilities in prominent vpn services private vpn and betternet yes it's not someone we're promoting this time, have been discovered that could have allowed complete control over a computer

running their clients via a rogue software update. While both VPN companies appear to have patched the issue, neither made an announcement to affect the user's bad form. People, that is not how that's supposed to work. This came as part of a larger test of 20 VPN service providers, including heavy hitters like NordVPN, ExpressVPN and PIA. 14 of the VPN services had no issues, while six allowed intercepting client server communications, although BetterNet and Private VPN connected to the proof of concept attack server and downloaded the software.

Ouch. Yeah, big yikes. So I guess we're not completely clear here. BetterNet did not automatically install the malicious update, but PrivateVPN did. While most users at home won't ever see such a hijack, that's probably quite true,

the threat of man-in-the-middle attacks like these in public situations using untrusted access points, the old old school cafe attacks hotels airports and whatnot is ironically one of the main selling points of vpns and is making you quite vulnerable with that solution yeah bummer not fun finally super mario 64 was ported to the pc it has a native port on pc complete with widescreen and high resolution graphics. Of course, this isn't a Nintendo initiative and is likely to be shut down. Oh, there's a link already done. So that happened today at 2.30 PM. So about four hours ago.

It was made with data gathered from the fan run Super Mario 64 decompilation project, a project with the goal of decompiling Super Mario 64 in order to understand and document the game's code. This means that the individual or team doing the port had to translate the N64 specific instructions to something that would run on a PC using modern graphics libraries like OpenGL and Direct3D. As a result, it may be possible to run the game on much lower-end hardware as there is no emulation taking place wow i like seriously need to get my hands on this before it's impossible to find yeah i mean i'm down to just go buy the buy the i mean we talked about this last week as far as

i'm concerned if i go buy the cartridge then i can play this guilt-free like it's not like nintendo did any work on this project that is so cool apparently they ported it to the switch too wow man so wait from pc all the way back down to switch. I love neckbeards. I really do. They are the best because they make my life so much better. Thank you, neckbeards. And I'm not generalizing. I'm just saying that

there are definitely people who worked on this project who have a neckbeard. That's all I'm saying. Wait, that's a generalization. Crap! Caught again. Fell into my own crap. He totally kept digging when he should have stopped. Yeah, I'm sure this will be findable online. Seems like most of the links are dead right now,

but I'm sure they will continue to circulate. Yeah, I'm sure Nintendo is super happy about this one. Yeah. All right. I don't remember what it's called, but maybe this will do that thing where when you try to hide it on the internet it just strikes that effect more yeah there we go yeah all right we've got to do a couple super chats here ladies and gentlemen metal gappy says sorry to hear about ltx i was hoping bc would be able to squeak by but no such

luck here's hoping for a better year next year i truly also hope for a better year next year. I truly also hope for a better luck next time situation. Robert Mayhill says, Donation three of waiting for short circuit t-shirts. We're not, I told you, we don't even have any planned. I said it explicitly last week. Why do you keep spending money to tell me you're waiting for something that isn't coming? We're working on a long sleeve, Robert.

We are working on a long sleeve. Keep pushing. It'll work. Keep pushing. It'll work. I believe. You don't. You know fully well. I don't lie on this show. I'm not like, yeah, we're not working on this.

Oh, surprise. Here it is. No, just keep throwing money at them. It'll happen. DJ says, how do you feel about the roast since some time has passed since it happened how do you feel about the roast me yeah and can you lean a little bit to your right i gotta lean too we're both not centered anymore experience i thought it was really good oh yeah it was fun from the the float plane side of things we we learned a lot and developed really cool things for it um and it was it was the event

itself was super fun um totally i had a blast i don't think it necessarily like made the most sense um oh no we lost money yeah i doubt you guys would end up doing another one but it was really fun to do yeah no we wouldn't it was a lot to coordinate it was a total blast it was a once in a lifetime thing and that's it but i had no regrets whatsoever no yeah it was great uh okay what else we got here i'm not going to do too many today because we we started the show so late but epic stuff for you says been watching you for years figured maybe i should send you some dollar rays for all the great content well thank you very much that truly is some epic stuff it's a hundred of whatever chfs are i really wish that i told youtube this like a year ago i was like hey

it's really cool that you show all the different currencies that people donate in because like it makes you feel like you know you're part of this like global community right but i would really like to be able to mouse over and know how much it is and like freedom dollars or whatever randandy31 says hello from south australia just curious how much youtube premium pays versus normal ad views and do youtubers still get paid for premium viewers on demonetized content wow that is a fantastic question that last bit i have have no idea, but I am very curious to know the answer to the point where I am going to just fire over an email to the bat phone that I have here. Do you get paid for YouTube premium views on demonetized content, or does it just affect adsense it's really interesting yeah i i have no idea that's such a great question we don't really deal with it that much so it hasn't been a major concern for me i feel like you should because they're technically completely disconnected

systems yeah they're just paying viewers right yeah so it shouldn't matter but i also would be surprised if you don't uh lie nuss says oh wait sorry to answer your question randandy uh way more way more a youtube premium viewer is worth like an order of magnitude more than uh of like an ad supported viewer in terms of money the the, the, I don't mean worth, you guys are all worth a lot to me, but in terms of money, uh, they contribute far more to our bottom line.

Uh, Linus says, will the OG float plane subscription get a yearly version? Do we have any plans to do that? Uh, do you, I don't know. Can we even do that?

Cause I thought there was a whole like migration issue that we had. That was why we just like grandfathered that plan in as like a weird hidden plan or something. Yes. So we definitely did that. As far as I know, you could enable a yearly option. Yeah. I think we just don't have an easy way to lock people, lock out who can subscribe to it. Because we would only want people who are

og subscribers at three dollars a month to be able to get it okay so i see what you mean by that i think we could still do that uh i wouldn't necessarily recommend giving them a further discount uh because i don't think there's a yeah it just would be more efficient from a billing standpoint yes we wouldn't give up so much uh lighter and better for people paying in foreign currencies so there's there's benefits to it um if if you can't just do it in the dashboard right now i can talk to mr yuki about it i don't think that would be super hard to do yeah it's just a matter of like people would have to voluntarily change over their thing. And if there's anything we've learned from migrations in the past, this is people are like, cannot be arsed. Yeah. Um, the moon masters says your Adobe video shows the value of software as a service for Linus media group. Are you not

worried that if a tool is discontinued or a company closes, you'll potentially lose access to old content. I'm morally against software as a service. Absolutely, I'm worried about it. I hate it. It's just that I'm running a business here, and unfortunately, that's the best evil. Yeah, I don't have a better solution right now. Alex Wojcicki says, my girlfriend says you look like a daddy with that beard,

except I don't have a girlfriend. And I said that. Keep up all that you do. Okay. Thank you for that. A random person. Lines inspired me to build a PC and get into technology. Thanks for the super chat.

Don Gordon, first time on the live stream. Welcome. Kay Bastion says, when will the sandals be available in the store? I've been waiting since August 9th, 2019. No time soon. I have not gotten any samples from factories that have been anywhere near the standard that I would want it to be up to.

So we're not there. Keep sending super chats. It'll happen. It doesn't work that way. I'm telling you, man. If any of you have any requests for merch things, just fire away on the Super Chats. It fuels the machine.

It just keeps things moving. No, it doesn't. I had a non-Super Chat, just a chat that I happened to notice as it was scrolling by asking what's going on with the PewDiePie PC. So I have not been in direct contact with Felix. I don't know him. And I don't think as far as I know, I don't think he has really any desire to like, um, engage more with like the YouTuber community and collabs and stuff. It seems like he kind of stopped doing that a while back. Um, at least that's sort of what my very distant observation has told me. So I don't know

what he is or isn't doing with it. I did offer to cover taking it to a local shop to have the motherboard swapped out. But I don't know if he's going to do it. I don't know if his sponsorships with whoever provides his PCs even allows him to use it. We just, you know, we built it as a Lark. We wanted it to be a great machine. And we wanted it to be the know we built it as a lark we we wanted it to be a great machine and we wanted it to be the reason we built it well was we wanted it to be good enough that he could use it if he really wanted to but i i honestly was not really expecting him to daily drive it like apparently it would have been awesome but yeah go ahead apparently sive has a video that talks about it more oh okay that makes sense sive was very helpful for getting the whole thing done yeah

um and then we're going to unbox he is a meme lord it's fantastic yes he is meme lord it's fantastic yes he is yeah like it's ridiculous the guy is like a walking living meme i just don't even understand it what video does he have actually the the latest video on his channel is from like a month ago too old yeah someone mentioned in twitch chat that he does but i was like i didn't see it i'm not sure maybe it's on twitter or something yeah it could be i don't know we'll see we'll see i mean i would be so thrilled if he actually used it but i just i know from being an influencer and i realize this is a very first world problem and nobody's going to feel bad for me but people kind of send you too much unsolicited crap and sometimes it can actually just be a burden because you're like, what am I going to do with this thing?

Like how many, you know, a perfect example is like phone cases. How many phone cases can one man put on his phone? The answer is one. You know, like there's just a limit, right? Nick Plumack says, Linus, have you showered today? I have not showered in like three days look how greasy my hair is i need to go have a shower it's gross and on that note i might do that right now thank you guys for tuning into the wan show we will see you again next week

same bat time same bat channel bye go dislike the microsoft video ouch ouch why you gotta be like that why you gotta be like that luke i don't even interact with youtube videos that often you're kind of a youtube lurker but i dislike that one um hold on a second hold on i gotta check something real quick here i just gotta i gotta check something for you real quick uh you know all right hold on i just need to i need to see if there's anyone that we need to like uh go in what what's it called when you when you dump all your viewers on someone raid raid yeah nobody's on caltane's not live luke laffer's not live that guy's such a idiot i can't stand what a loser plays like crap games like crap nerd plays the crappiest games

leafy are you around are you done your addict stuff plenty times not i actually game for you kind of missed me i didn't even think to message you i gamed for like five hours yesterday i was playing i was playing single player anno it was the lamest thing ever from like uh from like an engagement with engaging with a friend standpoint but yeah i'm i'm totally i'm totally down i'm down to play some games i was up i was up till four i was so irresponsible last night um you could you could raid yourself then i could raid myself no i just like this channel so yeah yeah but you have to stop this stream so if you just stop the stream and start it again it's kind of like raiding yourself oh i need some dinner first i like hardcore need dinner first i I got to put my kids in bed

No, I do. I have a Full twitch streamer. I'm not a successful twitch streamer. Are you you're the last person you should be giving advice on being a successful twitch streamer geez She straight up is isn't she yeah yeah plenty time like she's like making more money on twitch than you ever have isn't she i bet she is not ever well yeah but it doesn't count when you're like hey guys um so um i need a i need a valve index and i really um can't i don't want to buy one for myself because i have a mortgage now and, um, you know, I'm running a startup.

So if you guys could just kind of, you know, cheer me enough, that would, that would cheer me up. Then I would be able to get one. I'm not going to do anything. If you, if you cheer, I'm just going to casually say thanks and probably ignore you. But thanks. Every time, every time people cheer they don't do it very often and usually i don't look at the chat at all because i'm playing beat

saber which makes it very difficult to look at the chat or i'm playing ano and i get like focused i get focused when i play ano i like barely look at it so half the time people cheer i don't recognize what's going on in the ui and i'm like sorry what is that what is this oh oh cheering what is cheering again i i know what it is now it's like bits or something right yeah there's bits you cheer with bits yeah i uh twitch adds so much junk all the time that i never know what's going on anyways i'm still i think my last stream i just finally figured out what a hype train even is and now that i even know what it is, I don't understand.

I have not even tried to figure out what that one is. I think you're supposed to like make people keep cheering more and more and more. Like it's all just like these, these horrible, like, like casino level gambling mechanisms. I just,

it kind of makes me feel icky, quite honestly. And like I shamelessly monetize. Like I shamelessly monetize everything I do. I'm monetizing right now. I'm taking super chats. I'm taking Twitch contributions and like prime subs. I'm taking corporate sponsors. I took three corporate sponsors for this show.

I am a monetization machine. And I look at Hy at hype train i'm like really big chicks and like they set it up so that there's like there's the okay so i could get some of this wrong because i still don't really care yeah um hashtag not a good streamer but uh if you like push it to the next milestone or whatever yeah everyone in the chat unlocks i think everyone in the chat maybe just people that contributed i don't know um they unlock permanent emotes that are like hype train themed so like they try to make it fun and they give you direct rewards and they're like everyone give them money now and give them money in ways that twitch can

siphon part of it off but the things that they gave you are just pixels they're just pixels i don't know every i feel like everything we charge for has a value the only things that we take money from our viewers for our content the content you are directly supporting the content through early access on floatplane.com or you are buying merch but there's also like higher quality to that and stuff yes exactly higher quality well there's a high there's a better community over there as well like the comment section i find myself reading my floatplane comments at the beginning of the day and then i'll like look at my youtube comments for that day's video later like floatplane comments are

awesome um we we actually have a talk today about after we release the the new big update that's still it's still a bit out but it's coming which is text picture and audio post i think this is the first time that i've talked about it a super popular on wanshow it's not it's not that close don't freak out but it is it is coming it's been worked on for a while um after that comes out something that we're talking about i don't know if it's been worked on for a while um after that comes out something that we're talking about i don't know if it's going to happen at all or when it will happen if it does happen uh but like kind of a revamp to the comment section because something we've been discussing it's like um right now our comments are more similar to other websites that have

comments not like a forum and we know that the comment section on Floatplane ubiquitously across all creators is a better experience than the comment section on something like YouTube. So it might be better for us to give a more rich commenting experience that is more similar to something like the Linus Tech Tips forum than a traditional

YouTube comment section where you can have better, more thorough interaction with each other, more tools, all that kind of stuff. Just an idea. Don't know. A lot of people have mentioned that they prefer conversing with each other on the forum versus the comments on flow plane yeah and that's just made the wheels turn that would be very far down the line if it happens but yeah i actually had someone offer to buy the forum um last week what i told them to go take a hike uh they were basically like yeah like uh i i i basically was talking about it i was like yeah it's worthless to me and they're like what and i'm like yeah, it's worthless to me. And they're like, what? And I'm like, yeah, yeah, we don't make any money on it.

And they're like, oh, well, do you want to sell it? I'm like, no. And they're like, but you don't make any money on it. I'm like, yeah. And they're like, well, I mean, we could make money on it. I'm like, yeah, but then the site would suck. Linus Tech Tips Forum was created because I wanted a tech forum that I could go to and enjoy

that's like the main reason made like no money uh we made the forum and it made no money yeah because and we committed to basically it making no money when we made no money because we were like this just makes more sense yeah well i i it was created because like, so our code of conduct was created by me and Luke, mostly Luke. But I guided sort of what I wanted it to be. It had my name on the site. So it was really important to me that the spirit of the community was something that I could get behind. And so our code of conduct is basically don't be a dick and be excellent to each other. Okay, those are those are the main guiding principles of the Linus Tech Tips forum because

I was so sick of it being either this extreme, where you've got super techie forums, where people are disrespectful to anyone who would have the audacity to ask a newbie question. And then you've got these super basic forums where people just kind of don't really know what they're talking about. I wanted something in between. I wanted knowledgeable people who were committed to actually being welcoming to new members. And it was also, okay, so the other half of it was that it was our backup plan. In case YouTube went down, we needed some way to own our audience and have some way to reach them if all of a sudden we weren't on YouTube anymore and you needed to access us somewhere else. So it was a way to hold on to our community and to have a tech forum.

I don't go to almost any other tech forum now. I just go to linushechtips.com. Whatever's in the news or whatever's in the discussion over there, it's basically all I need to know. It's great. Love it. So for no reason other than that, my intention would be to leave Linus Tech Tips. And calling it independent isn't quite right

because it's wholly owned by Linus Media Group Incorporated. It's not really independent in that sense. It's not community- owned or anything like that. But I am the definition of a hands-off owner when it comes to linusdecktips.com. I actually didn't even look at the analytics for almost two years once. That was when I messaged you.

I was like, hey, Luke, did you know the forum's still growing? And you're like, yeah. And I'm like, yeah, well, I didn't. Because like we don't put any ads on it, really. It's got a link to Displate or whatever, like a sidebar with the latest Linus Media Group videos, like Amazon affiliate link here and there.

But it is mostly funded by the bronze, silver, and gold contributors who we were totally up front with right from the start get absolutely nothing for their contributions. No, they get ads removed, which there are almost none of. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And they get access to the bronze, silver, and gold sections where basically no one... Nothing happens.

Except there is one thread in the bronze section... It's like a counting thread or something. They're trying to count to 10,000 with images that have that number highly related to it in some way yeah yeah it's just it's just random it's a really cool place and i i told those guys that i basically it's really it was really funny because i spent like probably five minutes explaining what's so valuable about linus tech tips.com and i said explicitly at one point they must not have heard me that it was like absolutely not for sale like i would not part it out or something or

whatever they were asking um and then at the end of it they were like oh okay so then like um you know you would part it out i'm like no why they just heard it doesn't make money and they were like oh yeah yeah oh but we could put all these like automatically playing video ads on it like no part of what's great about linus media group is that it has things that don't have to make money like ltx for the first three years it's just it's just funded by the by the sponsors and by the super chats and by all the other things that we do on the youtube content so many many people ask me, they're like, they're like, hey, you know,

what else does Linus Media Group do? Nothing. We just make videos and then do stuff that we think is cool. And my kids clearly need me to go pay attention to them now. So thank you guys for tuning in. We'll see you again next week. Bye. Hey, Bratz. hey brats all right so i'm ending the youtube stream now oh well hold on a second is that a did someone

just send a 100 chf super chat i don't know what this is i've been watching you for years figure oh no we already did that one okay ending the stream