The WAN Show - I Want To Smuggle CPUs - WAN Show December 9, 2022

Episode Date: December 12, 2022

Save 90% off your first for months of Freshbooks at https://www.freshbooks.com/wan Deploy a cloud server in seconds with Hetzner at https://linustechtips.hetzner.com/podcast-cloud Timestamps (Courtesy of NoKi1119) Note: Timing may be off due to sponsor change 0:00 Chapters 1:18 Intro 1:43 Topic #1 - "Pregnant" woman caught smuggling CPUs 4:14 Why smuggle tech into China? discussing item distribution 7:32 Brazil's tech import tariffs, American imports & exports 12:06 Smuggling to exploit tech shortage? 13:07 Topic #2 - New Arc driver, Arc challenge update 13:26 Intel's e-mail, criticizing Intel's Arc Control & its notifications 18:19 Only drivers matter for first-gen, Arc PC giveaway...on Arc Control 20:26 Luke won't update his driver until Arc Control informs him of it 20:55 Intel Support Assistant, Luke on the extended Arc booting 23:50 Performance graph of DirectX9 & driver performance uplift 26:42 Discussing Vulkan & Proton running DirectX9 29:40 Explaining the misconstrued chemistry between Linus-Luke 32:41 LTTStore Linus plushies moved to the bonus bins 33:36 Merch Messages #1 53:22 LTT's ZeroTier video idea 54:36 Sponsors 57:58 Topic #4 - Nintendo DMCA's DYKG's video on a 2004 Zelda pitch 59:21 Mentioning the source of the video's content, why did Nintendo do this? 1:01:00 Discussing NDA, hate tweet on DYKG, Activision-Blizzard 1:03:56 Nintendo "acknowledges" S&V bugs, "takes feedback seriously" 1:05:40 Linus considers not purchasing Nintendo products, mentions SMP 1:12:12 Where is the line drawn with these companies? 1:13:12 Merch Messages #2 1:24:23 Topic #5 - Markiplier's OF, proceedings to go to charities 1:26:14 How are nudes "tasteful"? 1:27:47 ChatGPT defines "tasteful nude photographs" 1:30:26 Merch Messages #3 1:37:56 Topic #6 - The Game Awards 2022 1:38:45 Valve was giving away Steam Decks, Elden Ring won GOTY 1:39:12 Kid mentioning Bill Clinton arrested, other previous stunts 1:40:05 Topic #7 - They're Just Movies podcast ended 1:43:15 Criticism online is personal Linus' & Luke's perspectives 1:47:14 Complimenting Luke, losing weight & building muscle 1:48:03 The name of the lab 1:48:32 Luke hosting videos once again, discussing OVH & Arc videos 1:50:48 Topic #8 - LTX2023 & Whale LAN page design & dates revealed 1:53:02 VIP packages, all-night Whale LAN, Luke's epic father & friend 1:55:28 PAX & LTX, possible quarterly LAN parties, special guests 1:59:43 Expo building, showcasing booths & games 2:06:04 Linus's potential investment on a NAS software start-up 2:11:01 Linus on DIY NAS mirrored storage issues, defining obtuse 2:17:18 Topic #9 - Apple scraps CSAM, encrypts iCloud 2:19:05 Topic #10 - Xbox games are now up to $70 2:21:00 Topic #11 - Adobe Stock to sell generated AI stock images 2:24:19 Merch Messages #4 2:32:53 Topic #12 - Stack Overflow banned ChatGPT 2:36:23 Luke's thoughts on ChatGPT version 4 2:38:27 Invalidity of ChatGPT answers, defining why it was banned 2:40:28 Using large language models on game development 2:43:30 Luke's ideal sandwich, ranting about killing Quadro 2:45:26 Any notable tattoos around the company? 2:45:48 How long until Arc is competitive in the professional market? 2:46:37 Would LTT accept Nintendo as a sponsor for LTX? 2:46:58 Favorite pieces of tech to use in the kitchen 2:48:28 Outro Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

With Uber Reserve, you can book your Uber ride in advance. 90 days in advance. Perfect for all you forward thinkers and planning gurus. Reserve your Uber ride up to 90 days in advance. Uber Reserve. See Uber app for details. How y'all doing, everyone? Happy Friday and welcome to The WAN Show. We've got a great show lined up for you today.

We'll be talking about... Okay, this is not a major topic, but it's pretty unusual and comical. A woman was caught trying to smuggle CPUs into China under a fake pregnant belly. Like a lot of them. We'll be talking about that. Intel Arc GPUs are getting a massive upgrade in performance, particularly in games that use older APIs. We're going to be talking about that. What else we got?

And other... This one's a big topic. Why don't you care about this topic? Wait, which one? You have no love for this topic at the top. Where are you? The highlighted one. Oh, yeah.

Nintendo DMCA's YouTube documentary about a dev's pitch for a 2004 Zelda game that didn't even get made and and there's like reasons why this is really weird we'll we'll talk about that for sure um and i don't want to talk about the bill clinton thing uh i'm gonna continue conversations about gpt because you're stuck here with me no matter what so i'm gonna do it all right I mean that's fair yeah captive audience yeah it's not like they could just go to a different tab in their browser illegal i think the first one has got to be the cpu smuggling story the the the pictures are just

wild here all right uh this was so random i was i was i jumped on the forum to check out the tech news section as i do sometimes to see if we can find anything more for when and i came across this posted by big strewns thanks big strewns tries to enter china with over over 200 intel alder lake cs hidden inside fake pregnant belly. This wasn't like a couple. That's so many. Okay. These are Alder Lake CPUs.

So these are high-end chips. We are talking somewhere in the neighborhood of, hold on a second, calculator, 200 times. Let's say they're not even top tier chips chips like maybe like 400 bucks or something like that we're talking like with the iphones nearly a hundred grand worth of merchandise under this under this fake baby bump and apparently the way that they caught her was that she claimed to be five months pregnant but obviously well informed yeah obviously had neither uh ever actually been pregnant nor ever seen a five months pregnant person because her belly was absolutely huge and she was apparently walking effortlessly which caused a lot of suspicion interesting okay so after careful inspection the customs agents discovered

she had used duct tape to fix and hide smuggled goods beneath the fake silicone silicone belly uh so 202 alder lake cpus and nine iphones um not a baby uh the original source here wait where's the where's the original article this is a 3d is at least one of the sources so we've got that the next paragraph goes in to say the strangeness about this situation aside from the obvious is that customs would have eventually noticed the components and phones once zhao walked through a metal detector do they have pregnant women walk through metal detectors? Yeah.

Okay. Yeah, so like what the heck? Yeah, there's nothing about a metal detector that would cause any kind of... Ma'am, your baby is metallic. Yeah, exactly, right? How could she have possibly thought this was going to work?

I think that another really kind of key part of this conversation is, what is the deal with sneaking CPUs into China? There are a couple of answers here. Let's talk about the more traditional reason to smuggle electronics into a country uh one of the things that i heard through the grapevine allegedly allegedly was that the online site which i don't believe exists anymore or if it does it's under completely new management like none of the people who would have been involved in this scheme would still be there anyway okay um but allegedly tiger direct e-tailer that you guys probably remember from the days of Zip, Zoom, Fly, M-Wave, all right, back in the day I'm talking about, okay, the big four were Newegg, Tiger Direct, Zip, Zoom, Fly, and M-Wave, like back in the early to mid 2000s. And allegedly, Tiger Direct, one of the ways that they were so successful was through taking advantage of Intel's MDF programs to a degree that just no one seemed to be able to figure out or care why they were doing so well. Okay, so they were based in Florida. As far as anyone outside could tell, they weren't really selling that much online. Newegg was based in California, and as far as

anyone could tell, was selling a lot online. But Tiger Direct always seemed to sell a lot of Intel CPUs. And what was really unusual, so said the word through the grapevine, what was really unusual about it was that it was a really different SKU mix from all the other major online sellers. Because typically, especially back then, high-end would sell really well online. Like at NCIX, our best-selling cards

were like your 70 series 80 series cards like for on the nvidia side like your high-end gpus whereas someone like i remember talking to my zotac rap rap my zotac rep way back in the day and uh he was saying you know oh yeah you guys are like the biggest seller of of high-end cards for us in the country and i'm sitting here going we sell almost nothing. How do you even have a job? And he was like, oh, well, we sell a ton of like tier cards, but it's all through like Best Buy or whatever else.

And that's pretty typical. That's why when you walk into a retail store, they don't have like $6,000 AVR receivers on the shelf. Because just the density of customers who are going to buy that sort of thing is not high enough. They're not just walking into a store for that. It goes through installers,

like VARs, value-added resellers. Or it goes through online, like online boutiques, where if you're able to cover half of a freaking country, you could afford to keep three or four of those in stock you know what i mean you can't just put them at 250 locations yeah and what just one each

you're gonna have at least two or it's not really in stock is it so it was typical for online sellers to sell a lot of enthusiast tier hardware and for retail sellers to sell a lot of low-end. Now, Tiger Direct had retail stores, but so much of their sales was like Celerons, Pentiums, like low-end stuff. And what I heard was that the reason for that is that anytime they needed to hit an MDF target or pump up their volumes through intel so that they could get marketing funding is they were buying like literal containers of cpus and then they were going on to

container ships down to brazil okay so a bit of a different operation but same idea different operation same idea and the reason for that is that brazil has absolutely like i don't know how to say this without using cuss words isn't it just crazy import just unbelievable import tariffs yeah i've heard about electronics yeah if you see a brazilian like an actual brazilian who lives and works in brazil holding an iphone they are a baller because everything all electronics just have these wild import tariffs and it's so it's so frustrating because you look at it and you go why yeah like okay sure you want revenue for your like government or whatever but maybe how about something more reasonable? And then people could actually afford any of this stuff,

and import volumes would go up, and, like, probably it's a net gain all around. And then you have better technology in the country, and that's good for entrepreneurs. Like, there's obvious reasons for, you know, less friction when it comes to international trade, particularly around electronics. But I don't know. Anyway, the point is, the smuggling operation that allegedly was

taking place out of Florida was at least understandable, because if you could get those CPUs into the the country even though you were going to have to find people who were going to like you know buy them like cash price under the table or whatever else the difference in cost between a smuggled one and an officially imported one it's like double or something like that a prime is saying that it's apparently been to promote uh in-country manufacturing yeah but that's not gonna happen it it as far as my understanding goes it didn't really work i mean they've been at this for how long now it's not happening yeah intel ain't putting a fab in brazil it's not i remember really old like i watched this really old school

like mini doc on smuggling xboxes into brazil like original ones like this is this is a this is an old topic um yeah not a new thing anyway but so someone someone brought up that this is maybe to get around um some of the trump introduced well there's no single there's no single american administration to blame for this at this point yeah but there are there are significant uh export restrictions yeah on electronics into china yeah and so if you simply whether it's a high import tariff that drives up pricing or whether it's a shortage that means you simply can't get them i mean we've seen around the world never mind just in brazil or just in china we've seen around the world what people

are willing to pay to get their gaming fix if there's a shortage of something like say for example gpus oh yeah so this this eighty thousand dollars worth of cpus i don't know about the iphones that one i can't really figure out apple sells in in china. I don't know about the iPhones. That one I can't really figure out. Apple sells in China. I don't know. There's other stuff that I really don't get. It always kind of blows my mind when people will travel to Vancouver and go shopping

downtown at Fendi or Gucci or whatever. I'm sitting here, what, you don't have Gucci where you're from? Maybe I'm totally off base here. Maybe it's just like a mindset thing when you're traveling. you're from like uh maybe i'm totally off base here maybe it's just like uh like a like a mindset thing when you're traveling you're just like yeah i already spent four thousand dollars to be here so what's another two grand on a bag like i i don't know i don't i don't understand the rationale apparently apple is now assembling the iphone 13 in brazil but not

the iphone 13 mini okay so they they won one they won one they got one how's the how's the rest of it going just just ridiculous sweet uh but yeah i i just thought that was funny yeah so so we've so we've seen what people will pay when there's a shortage so it's possible that this eighty thousand dollars worth of cpus is worth i don't know a hundred thousand a hundred and fifty thousand i mean clearly there was money to be made if she was gonna risk i mean jail time making an attempt like this can i help you sorry i i got it we're're fine. Yeah, no, it's, and this has got to be like pretty much guaranteed jail, right? Trying to smuggle over a hundred grand worth of something into a country? Yeah, I would think so. The amount of money involved.

I'm pretty sure that would throw you into jail here. that's a lot of money um so i i i am i don't know what kind of desperate situation she's in that she feels like she has to to do this uh but i hope for the best for everyone involved and i think it's time for us to move on to our topic number two yeah what do you want to talk about next intel arc there's some stuff going on yeah our gpus get dx9 support and luke refuses to update his drivers i do actually as part of the arc challenge i am taking let's talk about that first then let's talk about how much better these drivers are okay so we got an email from intel it was it was not i'm not complaining about the fact that i got an email just to be very clear the person who sent it is a very nice person uh it was worded nicely there's no issues with the email but we got an email telling us that there was this new driver

so i was like okay cool um i clicked on the link went to go download it then i was like wait i complained about arc control intel's overlay software thing it's very annoying it's it's extremely annoying do you don't you just love how when you turn on your computer you just can't use it for a while until art control decides to load and then you can make it go away and then you can use your control even your computer even microsoft's own built-in notification pop-up things in the bottom they sit over top of the expanded system tray. You cannot interact with anything in your system tray. So if your computer's been to sleep for a while and it's like,

ba-boom, ba-boom, ba-boom, ba-boom, ba-boom, ba-boom, I'm trying to use my computer. Nothing, nothing should sit over top of me interacting with my PC. Anytime I am doing something, like I run into this with text input, for example. If I am f***ing typing right now, you do not put a focus window in front of me

with a highlighted OK button, for for example in the event that i maybe press spacebar or enter either of which will activate it and have no idea what just happened yeah that may not happen and yet it does sorry i that's an aside no that's completely fine and very valid uh but yeah okay so i i left the email went to Arc Control. Went to go check if I could get an update. I also wanted to make sure that didn't like automatically update without me being at my computer or something. So Arc Control does display in the top corner what version of the driver you currently have. Okay, I'm still on the old one. Cool.

First one, check. Then I go to the driver page on Arc Control. This page has not changed at all. There's still the big banner. I complained about this in the video. There's no update button that you would expect from a piece of software like this that updates your driver for you, which is the entire reason why most people would install these types of pieces of software, because that's the main value add that they have.

But that button doesn't exist there is a banner image um that says like download here thing and it talks about warzone 2.0 in the banner image so i clicked on that being like maybe they forgot to update this picture because that is the same picture that has been there since I installed my card. I click on that. It brings me to an article about the Warzone 2.0 driver update thing that they had, which is the same page that was there when I first installed my card. So I'm like, okay, so they haven't updated anything. I must have gotten like an early email notification. That's not 100% fair to a user experience.

So I don't really want to update right now. But just out of curiosity, I clicked the download now or whatever it was called button. And it brought me to the correct download page. So that link was working. It brought me to the new driver. But I was like, there would have been no reason for me to click this. Because nothing led me to think that there was a new driver until I clicked this button so I would not have done that if I didn't receive the email so I exited out informed them of all that kind of stuff a few different web like review sites written sites wrote articles on it so maybe if you were quite the techie and followed a few review

sites you would have seen it that way and been able to update. That almost justified it for me, but I was like, I still haven't been told by Intel as a normal user that this thing exists. So if I just followed tech to get my parts list and then built my computer

and then ignored it, which is pretty normal. That's very normal. We see a lot of that. There's a ton of that. That's what I used to do. Yep. I would not know that this driver update just happened.

100%. There's no way that I would have known. They told me that I would be getting a notification for it. Maybe I did. I loathe the ARC notifications. So I purposefully ignore them as much as possible because it makes me really mad um so maybe i got one maybe i got one while i wasn't at my computer yeah like just sending one notification is not good or acceptable a way that i've seen some things do it before

is your tray icon updates with a little like exclamation mark or a dot or something like that's a better way to like, there's something here. And then when you click on that, it should tell you when the screen comes up, like, hey, there's a new driver update. Because a driver update is basically the only thing that I want to hear from you about. Yes.

If you are a graphics card manufacturer. Nothing else matters to me. Not at all. And you can pack some other stuff in. When you send me to your driver update sure you can have some billboards along the way yeah yeah while i'm while i'm installing the driver you can tell me about some game bundle you're running but like realistically if i'm installing your software and you are a first generation company right so this is intel's first generation of g, if I own your product, there's nothing to upsell me to. I already own

it. You don't have to market to me. Like with Nvidia, I kind of get it. You install their drivers and it's like the new RTX blah, blah, blah has blah, blah, blah, blah, or whatever. And it's like, yeah, sure. Fine. Fair enough. But with Intel, I already have your one fucking card so unless you're making it better i'm not interested like or you know they'll have or like uh we have a game bundle now buy a whatever and get a whatever i don't care what i'm gonna go buy a second no i'm gonna go buy the game i even thought this was kind of funny uh if you if you have the arc control software there's a giveaway that they were doing where you win a computer with an arc in it i'm like i have i have i have one of those it's like being at disneyland and they let the prize is a ticket to disneyland you want a ticket to disneyland that you have to use today yeah it's like i mean

to be clear i sure i'll go stand outside disneyland and scalp it like i guess but you might as well just give me the cash at that point yeah like you're giving me another arc card that i can sell it would have even made more sense to me if it was a system without a gpu and they were like hey you get to upgrade the rest of your rig now here's the latest rig to put around your arc yeah yeah like that would have made more but it was like nope the main selling feature was that it came with an arc and i was like i have one already come on but i mean i'm not gonna dog on them for giving away free computers to people yeah that's cool it's a good it was just funny that's all but okay so yeah i still have not updated to this new driver despite

knowing that it's apparently actually super awesome. And we'll get into that in a second. But I'm kind of holding on to the stance of that. I'm not going to do that until Arc Control, my arch nemesis, as far as I can tell at this point, is going to inform me in some reasonable way that there is actually an update, which it hasn't done so far. So I'm just going to keep trudging around on the the old driver uh lb725c in floatplane chat says luke do you have intel support assistant every time i boot my pc it tells me about the new arc driver i'm pretty sure i do but again like

arc nemesis that's pretty good um i don't i okay first of all the the arc control notifications cover all other notifications so if it's informing me it's true when I turn on my computer that that's happening what's the point in that also I have learned that arc control just disables my whole computer while it's loading so when it does that I leave while it's loading so when it does that i leave i'm not kidding i leave my computer i and that's not me just being like i'm gonna ignore this notification that's what i've been doing the whole time before i got this email everything i i wake up in the morning i do work from home so one of the first things i do is i turn my computer on uh just so i can make sure like i don't know it's gonna boot because i need to be there for meetings or whatever else so one of the first things I do is I turn my computer on and then I go

like get breakfast so what I've done since I installed arc is I get my computer to the point where arc control is going to rip control of my own computer from my hands until it finishes loading and I leave and I grab breakfast and I come back to my computer and then it's done booting up and I eat some people are calling Luke petty over this, but I actually disagree. Luke is trying to experience the product as he would experience it if he wasn't a member of the tech media. If I did not directly get emailed that message, which again, I'm not complaining about receiving the email. Yeah. I'm just saying if I didn't receive that email. Thanks for that. Yep.

It's good. And it was well explained. It was well written. Like nothing went wrong there. My whole complaint is purely with art control. That he wouldn't have known. So the idea is actually just to maintain the integrity of the challenge. Yeah.

Which is that if he wasn't on the email list, then he wouldn't have known. Because like when we did the Linux challenge, we didn't take help from Linux community members that would not have given us help. Yeah, we could have. I would have... Come on. Think about the way that the Linux community wants to promote Linux, and they do, and that's a good thing.

It's overall a good thing for the world to promote linux which is a big reason why we did the challenge in the first place so but with that in mind so through that lens consider with the reach that we have and how much attention how many eyes were on the linux challenge how much support the linux community would have thrown at me personally to fix a problem that I had. But that was not the purpose. The purpose was to experience it as though I was not me and not broadcasting these challenges to a million or two million people. And I think it's an important perspective. With that said, looking at at these numbers i will be installing that driver first thing when i get home and i want to because this is sick and i have to give them props where props is due i mentioned in an email back to them about this stuff um because i informed

them of everything that i just said because i want to give them the opportunities early and often to do cool things but i informed them that like we we actually played star citizen i straight up did not expect it was going to work like at all yeah yeah when we were loading it i was expecting that we were like throwing it under the bus and then it was fine well it was as fine as star citizen ever is but yes it was yeah it was a little choppy here and there but it was on my old card and i almost got stuck in my ship again but that's that's normal like there was nothing that i was like okay this is arc's fault it was just like okay this is playing star citizen in 2022 um so i was quite impressed with how well it did that

um it's been completely fine in halo since i turned off reflections i've actually had very very few problems in game over the last little while and this is a huge performance jump yeah i mean on the one hand like i kind of want to talk about intel's 1.2 gigabyte driver downloads and and that's pretty wild the slow servers that that they are serving them from okay but on the other hand, man, if they're going to pack this kind of feature improvement into these drivers, I guess I'll get over it. I'll download five gigabyte driver updates if you're going to do that.

What we're looking at here is DirectX 9 games and their relative performance going from driver 3490 to driver 3953. This is based on 1080p high and 1440p ultra settings across six games so over here this side is 1080p this side is 1440p and it's not clear if we're looking at you know one percentile minimum frame yeah yeah rates or if we're looking at averages or whatever else but there's no denying that these are substantial improvements huge cs go has been an extremely sore spot for arc performance uh well really since the very beginning and a 1.79 times performance improvement

is enormous like we joked in our review we said like hey intel couldn't help noticing bud that your brand new gpu is getting outperformed by a card from i forget what it was like eight years ago or something like that yeah it was a high-end card and this is a mid-range gpu but still yikes well this at least puts ARK within modern GPU performance, even if it's not going to be at the top of the charts. This is enormous. The bigger news, though, the cooler news, is how this happened.

It's not like all of a sudden they managed to make the ARK-itecture of the 700 series cards better for DirectX 9. It's actually still running. I guess it would be Vulkan, I guess. Yeah, it's still running Vulkan, which is a modern API. And ARK has always been solid for DirectX 12 and Vulkan games. It's just using a translation layer. I'm not sure if it's Vulkan. It might actually be translating

to DirectX 12. Don't quote me on that. VXVK? Yeah. No, it would be Vulkan, right? I think so. Oh, crap. I hope I'm not getting this wrong. Guys, jump in if we're getting this wrong, but I'm pretty sure. Sorry? It's Vulkan. It is Vulkan. Oh, good. Okay okay so they're using

what is actually like one of the foundational components of um what would you describe it how would you describe it what's what's valve's name for their uh yeah yeah proton do they still call it proton i think so i thought they might have rebranded it. Anyway, but it's one of the foundational elements of Proton, which is what Valve is using to take DirectX games that were never designed to be run on Linux, convert them on the fly as you are gaming them, as you are playing them, into Vulkan. So is that wild or what

yeah uh dxvk vulcan based implementation of d3d9 d3d10 and d3d11 for linux slash wine for linux slash wine slash windows apparently yeah so that's cool linux api hackery being used to make intel's like 79 performance increases in ps go on windows imagine that's sick imagine anything else in the world whereby instead of running it natively running it through a translation layer gets you an 80 performance improvement it's pretty wild uh so i think what we saw i don't know if it was one like first percentile whatever stuff um but apparently it was a 2.3 times boost in 99th percentile fps in csgo okay p tors says they aren't just using dxv, but their code contains some components of DXVK. Yes, and no, it's not related to Proton

other than that Proton also uses DXVK. I know, I said that DXVK was one of the foundational elements of Proton. That is, isn't, is open source cool or what? That's pretty sick. This is a very, very good use of it. I'm very happy about this driver update and I hope it treats you well

and we'll see if I get to use it at all. Apparently it's an even bigger boost to 99th percentile FPS. That's what I was just saying. Oshra tweeted about it. It's 2.3 times. Oh, did I totally miss that? You did.

That's okay. Oh, I'm sorry. I was checking what people were saying in chat. There was some, okay. I want to address that really quickly. I'm going to go off the rails. Actually, hold on. Can I go off the rails really quick here? it's not that i ignore him okay people thought

i was so are we talking about the same thing no you do it you do it i was gonna say it's people keep saying like oh like there was a lot of comments about this on our gpt chat they were like oh luke's talking about stuff and he's ignoring him that's not how it works we both do the same thing and it's always worked this way and i'm sorry but it's always going to work this way if the other person is talking the other one is going to be trying to either listen because they know they're going to throw back with something they know they can continue the conversation or they're going to throw back with something they know they can continue the conversation or they're going to be doing something to try to find ways to continue the conversation after that person is done talking during the gpt conversation he was typing stuff into gpt getting examples to

show on screen learning about it i was creating an account yeah he's like doing things in order to keep driving forward it's not it's not that we're ignoring each other we don't just sit here and like think about bananas or whatever like if i'm on my phone during the show he's doing something i i i could i can tell you you can be damn good and sure that what i'm doing is either something that is on fire yeah and i must be aware of yeah or it is related to the show yeah so you might not be like dragging on the every word of the other person yeah but we're still engaging i would never drag on every word you say that's probably fair enough i think the word you're looking for was hanging on to hang on sure there we go i got there uh it's probably good that he doesn't because then there'd be more of those

i would tease him so much more uh but yeah like don't don't worry about it's fine he's not like i know i had so many people diving to defend me and i'm like it was never a problem weird gamers like i i appreciate that you you care um but i'm fine uh it's going to be okay. Oh man. But yeah, like it's, and there was some people that pointed out like, yeah,

I mean, he was writing prompts to GPT, whatever. But like, yeah, those things happen. It's okay.

It's fine. I do the same thing. He knows. Everything's all good. Yeah, we're actually okay. Yeah. One of the other things

that's okay is the best way to send messages to the show is using merch messages. Why don't we do a couple and then if you guys have anything you want to pick up on ltd store or if you just want to pick up a gift card so you can send in a merch message don't use super chats don't use bits don't use anything like that use merch messages because that way you can throw money at us just

like any other live show but then magically you will get merchandise in the mail. Hey! In a while. Yeah. I mean, it's December. So, like, you know. But it'll show up. It'll show up. And we do have something to talk about on the show today. Linus plushies have been moved to the bonus bin.

Whoa. It is unlikely we will bring these back. So, you are going to want to tack one onto your order while you are there. For those of you who have forgotten, Linus plushies are... Oh, actually, you know what? I might as well show you how to use the bonus bin.

So if you were going to pick up a screwdriver, it would add to your cart. Look how wonderfully this website works. Oh yeah, then you would expand the bonus bin and you can grab anything from the bonus bin. We've got cute little shoelaces that come in a power supply thing, the 2022 sticker pack, and the Linus plushie.

Go ahead. You get one. Throw that in there. Yeah, you only get one. Everybody gets one. One bonus bin item and that's it. You can see the thing goes away. So that's the promotion for this week. Go check it out and send in a merch message if you want to interact with the show. Alright. Oh yeah, want to throw us a merch message dan sure i got one here from dimitri linus how's your knee after the fight i've had a torn meniscus repair surgery in the beginning of

this year and recovery wasn't fun um fortunately it wasn't torn torn. It just felt like it's been a bit of an ongoing thing for me. It just felt like the existing not perfection of it was aggravated. So there was a span of I was limping for a day or two in enough pain that it was hard to sleep for three to five and in enough pain that it was hard to enjoy myself properly for a couple of weeks um now i have pretty much forgotten about it um and i'm pretty sure i can do my thing this is my is my knee okay test oh okay yeah i know what this is yeah are they gonna be able to see very well so i basically go okay how we feeling jump on the knee okay i should be able to go all the way down and all the way back up so that was just in case you can tell there's like a single foot squat yeah if i can do that without agonizing pain then it's

it's great and i will not complain not Not even a little. Yeah, yeah. But there are times like it's definitely not 100%. And particularly when, what kind of force would like this be called? Like lateral force? I believe so. Yeah. So if there's lateral force on it, every once in a while, because it feels so good day to day, every once in a while, I will do something.

So there was a big hunk of ice at the back door there um and i went to just like kick it with my left foot from the side and i went nope not that not 100 yeah yeah but as long as i don't do that, it's like really good. That feels really similar. This is not a tech topic, but that feels really similar to my shoulder thing where like it feels fine all the time and then I'll draw really far back to throw something

and I'm like, oh yeah, I can't do that. All right. Yep. When I say enjoy myself properly, I mean, I play badminton recreationally. That's like, that's my main game. And if I can't play badminton at the level that I want to play it,

it's pretty frustrating for me. I don't like being injured. So I'm always like, I'm one of those people that I'll be like, I had a rotator cuff problem. Oh man, that one plagued me for a long time. It wasn't until my, um, my, my brother-in-law actually like told me how to fix it because like doctors I talked to were just like, oh yeah, I don't know. It's like sore. I don't know. Massage and just like, wait for it to get better. And it would just never get better. And finally he's like, oh yeah, that's like,

that's like, okay. As long as it's not like a you know career ending like horrible horrible one that's a super easy fix you just have to be on top of it like zero weight like do this just do this do this do this do this just like just forward backward and so i'm the kind of person that's like obsessive when it comes to trying to recover from an injury. So I'd be like driving. I'm like literally all the way to work. Because you need those. You need like many, many, many, many, many repetitions with zero weight in order to like build up the muscle so the thing can actually even recover.

So I tend to be the same way about everything actually someone just said this in chat this is not medical advice this is not medical advice at all not even a little bit it worked great for me it might completely destroy your body consult a doctor consult a physio put them put them together in a room and have them argue it out yeah to figure out what the best approach is for you all right there you go this is not financial advice either i am not a financial advisor um for legal reasons he actually said nothing it was silent for the last 10 minutes uh negev says i'm surprised bc doctors didn't know what to do well it's not that it was that at that time i didn't even have a family doctor uh it can be quite challenging getting

a family gp these days and there's a number of complicated reasons for that um but the point is that as far as i could tell the clinic physician that i was seeing just didn't care there you go um i have a good doctor now though which is uh for hopefully she doesn't like get hit by a bus or something yeah yeah um but yeah she's just hard to like appointments are all three weeks out whatever else but oh no people want legal and relationship advice now no no no no the show's over shows dan end it end it cut it. Cut it. Linus, legal tips? No. Do you want another one? Sure.

Sure. I got one here from Austin. Luke Linus, when you first started having extra cash to spare as an adult, what was your first luxury purchase? For example, mine was Spotify Premium. And he really wants to hear Luke's answer. You know mine, actually. Hold on. You might have forgotten. It's been a long time. We've known each other for a long time's answer you know mine actually uh hold on you might have

forgotten it's been a long time we've known each other for a long time but you know what it is pb monitors yeah okay yep yes well you should probably give them a little more so my my like one of the first things i mean i'm good i had these two really old monitors. You can actually see them. I think if you go to the original oil-cooled computer video that we did, that was in my like room thing when I used to go to BCIT. It's actually a pretty funny video. I'd suggest checking it out. But I had these old junky monitors and it was the worst part of my setup because him and I, as we've discussed quite

a few times have an agreement where he keeps me in good computers that doesn't mean peripherals that does not include monitors so i've always had to get my own monitors um and so one of the one of the yeah one of the first things i did was i got some um they're actually pro arts i got two pro arts oh okay and yeah they were sweet yeah well back then not every monitor was ips yeah like that was and they were a really nice ips they were they were wicked monitors i was if i remember correctly they were on a pretty sweet sale but they were still like that was definitely a lux purchase and the fact that he bought two was a very unlike lu thing to do. Yes. Classic Luke would have bought one and used whatever rat bag monitor,

LCD, TN, IPS, CRT. He wouldn't have cared. It could have been like an old TV at like 1366 by 768 and like consumed 200 watts at idle. He would have put it next to that, like the one nice monitor yeah uh so that was yeah that was a very unusual luke move i am back to three different monitors now

um but they are all asus monitors they all follow a very similar id so they they look like they fit together which is kind of nice but it's one of the pro arts because one of the pro arts still exists nice the other one is dead yeah um a a newer like 1440p gaming monitor uh that is my main screen and then very recently because my other pro art died and i liked having three monitors at home i got another 1440p monitor monitors tend to be like ever since i got those pro arts something in my brain was like i'm always gonna have nice monitors and i was like i don't have to buy my own computers i should probably like have some nice monitors so i've i've kept myself in in good monitors ever since so mine's a little bit complicated because i did buy myself okay first of all i'm not sure how you define luxury i wouldn't necessarily think that everyone would define luxury the same way like i think luke

luke's computer being something that actually makes him money um might not fall under the definition of luxury okay for some people. Fair enough. So if to you luxury means superfluous, yeah, obviously it could work without having really nice monitors or whatever else. But he also didn't go top of the line. And there's a health argument to be made for not having like squint at your display because the contrast is so low. Like, you know, keeping your, like even just like comfort,

you know, like there's, I don't know if everyone would define that as luxury. I also don't know that everyone would say that Spotify Premium is a luxury purchase though. And that was the example that was given here. A slightly nicer, sort of relatively low cost monthly subscription. I don't know that everyone would consider luxury

where some people might think luxury is like something utterly unnecessary. So your question is a little complicated for me because I don't know where the line would be between adult and kid. And I don't know what is luxury and what is not, but I can certainly tell you some early things that I spent probably too much money on and would,

could be considered luxury purchases. Uh, when I was in, um, man. So while you think someone in chat said, man, I wish I could buy a $3,000 monitor with a cord you can't remove.

Well, that's not something I bought for sure. reference yeah um almost all of my almost all of my early stuff would be tech so if you disqualified tech i would have a lot harder of a time coming up with stuff like i bought my i bought my 4400 plus which was a 700 cpu when i was still in high school i think so i wasn't really an adult, but that was certainly a luxury purchase. I didn't need a dual core. Was I in high school or like right after high school? I don't know. It was, it was around, it was around, it was around that time. Um, man, I remember my monsoon MM 2000 speakers. Oh, okay. That was, I was actually pretty sad about that. They sounded so good. and i took them back because they had kind of like this weird idle hiss uh and they were so near to me because i was using them

as surrounds for gaming so they were really close it was so near to me that they were really annoying so i took them back to london drugs being like no no, this is too annoying. I don't like them. And I got the Logitech Z680s instead, which sounded like absolute ass compared to the Monsoons. And I went back to the same London Drugs, and I was like, I'm sorry, I can't keep these. I want the Monsoons back. And whatever it is that they do with open box items was not keep them in the store and sell them back to you again. They were gone. And then I found out they do with open box items was not keep them in the store

and sell them back to you again. They were gone. And then I found out they were discontinued. And that was like the last pair of Monsoon MM2000s in existence that I had had. When did the Corsair speakers come into the picture? Oh, that was much later. I had Klipsch Premier Ultra 5.1s

was like a super luxury purchase for me uh pretty early on like all of my luxury purchases are going to be are going to be tech stuff like i drove a 91 diesel jetta that um that my parents made a deal with me i had to drive any of my four siblings anywhere that they needed to go but i got a car but i had to pay for gas was the deal interesting i still think i came out ahead but they did pretty well too because we lived in the middle of butt nowhere and it was a 20 minute drive to anything yeah and gas is expensive that adds up really well diesel wasn't then oh okay so okay it was so it was a pretty good deal someone brought up um that my fish tank could have maybe been interpreted as a lux purchase yeah maybe i i don't think that fits the

the idea of the question because it did say uh when you started having extra cash to spare as an adult i didn't build it when i was an adult and it took me like three years to save for or something doing like referee jobs and like shoveling gravel for people and like doing random like that wasn't yeah extra cash luxury yvonne and i bought really nice furniture when we moved into our place solid wood furniture we've talked about that a bunch too that was really expensive that we still have to this day and intend to keep for our entire lives yeah so is that luxury it certainly is a luxury that a lot of people would never be able to do but it's also taking a financial hit now in order to save money long term pretty pragmatic yeah yeah

yeah luxury i'm not sure i'm not sure i don't know interesting question yeah it's a really cool question all right why don't we move into our next topic okay um nintendo dmcas no that's a big one let's save that for after sponsors why don't we do the quick quick update regarding ufie port forwarding yeah okay so we should talk about port forwarding uh i was doing that thing that we talked about earlier in the show last week where i was like sort of paying attention but I was like working on stuff for the next topic. So I wasn't paying a ton of attention and I probably could have stopped this before it got to where it was

because Linus was like sub-summarizing something and it came across in the wrong way. Port forwarding is not a just like safe thing to randomly do for anything you could ever find that could possibly need a port forward. I was too blasé about it last week yeah uh there there are absolutely ways that uh vulnerabilities on services that are using open ports can be exploited this is totally a thing that people do and one of the ways that people do it is through junky iot devices that is absolutely a thing i have no idea how we got here, which is one of

the reasons why I wasn't really paying attention last week. Because the whole topic was about how Eufy was lying about how they did their implementation. I had not watched the video where the person talked about how in order to do it the way that they said they were doing it. And I'm super paraphrasing here. Sorry if I say it incorrectly. I think there's actually a quote. I will read the quote. So Rob from the hookup said, the images in the notification need to be hosted on an internet facing server without authentication. And they need to be highly accessible in order for the notification speed to be fast, which is important when you're doing like home security stuff that totally makes sense. If you wanted to serve those images directly from your home base, which is kind of how it's

described as it would work, you technically could, but you would need to expose it to the internet directly via port forwarding, which would absolutely represent a huge security risk. That would be a newsworthy issue. Yeah, I wouldn't want to open a port for some random like iot web camera thing in my house yeah agreed um but they they don't do that and they never said they're going to do that which is again why i'm like what um well i i said that uh you, obviously it would be better if it went straight from your device to your, you know, other device. Yeah. And there's been other stuff brought up where some people tried to dive to our defense and they were like, you don't need port forwarding to do local notifications. And it's like, yeah, but okay yes that's true but the second that you leave your

house which is i think the bigger point of the notifications um it wouldn't work anymore so you would need to if this product was designed with user uh with user data protection in mind there's no reason that it couldn't be configured in such a way that it would have no access to the rest of your network um these are a thing These are absolutely things that do exist. The main point, the only thing that matters is that there are other ways. And yes, just opening up a random port to a random IoT device from a company

that turned out to be a big liar is bad. But if they just weren't a bad company that was being a big liar, we wouldn't be having this conversation in the first place. And that's what matters. They said that it was something that it wasn't. They lied about security stuff. That is the actual point that

matters. Linus' point about open ports last week, bad. I don't think anyone was going to take action based on that. I don't think anyone ran home, jumped into their routers control panel and opened every single port that they have i don't think it is going to change a single action anyone did but it should be clarified as wrong so we are doing that now but also like i wouldn't freak out about opening a port for your minecraft server if you have to well that's the thing right is that's the point i was trying to make is that

you already open ports if you want to access anything on your local network from outside your local network and so if you do that then this may not be that different but it also may because as we are as we are discussing right now iot device companies are not following best practices when it comes to keeping your data and yeah you don't want to open ports for like random stuff that could be not very well maintained um that is that is vulnerability prone like i i would be i would be concerned about opening ports for different things um and you should hope that it's done properly is there ways around this you could probably figure it out done properly. Is there ways around this?

You could probably figure it out with some VPN thing. Maybe their app could run that way. I don't know. There's ways that they could have done this. Guys, Plex... Yeah, the saying you can't access anything from home, that's not really... But there's... Okay, so the reason... When you access Plex from outside, the reason that the bit rate is limited is because it's actually going through Plexus servers is my understanding. Oh, I have no idea about any of that. Um, and there's also people who brought up,

uh, what else? Uh, someone brought up something else. Not traversal is a thing. There's lots to it. None of this matters. And I would love to stop talking about it.

Neither of us are networking experts. Yes. We hire people for for that yeah and we have some thank goodness we have some good ones yeah exactly um to to send traditional notifications to a device not on your network at home my level of understanding would say that you would need to open ports for that because of the type of data that is leaving your house can you have data leave your house without opening ports? Yes, you can send emails. But yeah, to do a traditional notification to your device away from home, I believe the standard approach would be to open a port. Should we do that? No. Was that something that Eufy did? No. Is that something that Eufy ever said they did? No. And in my opinion, having a company blatantly lying about features be okay because technical people should know that it wouldn't work that way is not an excuse and makes no sense. And I don't know why we're talking about it. So yeah, I would dive back to Eufy lied about security stuff. That is the only part of this whole story that matters. Cool. Yeah, I think that's it.

Speaking of a network magic, we I think we're going to make a video about it at some point, but then we weren't like we didn't really find like a title or angle on it that that we thought would perform well enough. But zero tier is a super cool way to gain access to data remotely on your own network that does not require port forwarding. I have no idea what kind of black magic they're using in order to make that happen. The point is that it can clearly be done. There's other similar things as well. More in like the corporate sphere. But yeah done there's other similar things as well more in like the uh the

corporate sphere but yeah there's stuff like that there's other interesting things like you could set up your own vpn um so that your your device is seen as on that network like there's there's lots of other stuff yeah but the only regardless what matters only ones that could be easily set up by the average iot buyer matter in this in this instance but i don't think the average iot buyer is going to dive into the control panel of the router and open some ports either yeah so like the average iot buyer matter in this in this instance but i don't think the average iot buyer is going to dive into the control panel of the router and open some ports either yeah so like i just i don't think any of this is is relevant what matters is they claimed it was stored locally and it's not they lied about security stuff and they we should be going after them for

that nothing else in this realm realm is important or matters. All right. Why don't we jump into our sponsors? Because they matter. Yeah. Thanks to FreshBooks for sponsoring today's show. Now I'm going to go ahead and guess that you're not an accountant, which is why you're going to love FreshBooks software. It's built for freelancers and small business owners who don't have time to waste on invoicing, accounting, and payment processing. In fact, FreshBooks users can save up to 11 hours a week by streamlining and automating pesky admin tasks like time tracking, following up on invoices, and expense tracking with features like the new digital bills and receipt scanner. Over 24 million people have used FreshBooks and love it for its intuitive

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They operate their very own high-tech data centers in Nuremberg and Falkensee, both located in Germany and in Helsinki, Finland. Hetzner offers high-performance cloud servers for an amazing price. And not only this, Hetzner is now covering both the east and the west coast of the United States with their latest location in Hillsborough, Oregon. Now you can deploy cloud servers in five different locations and benefit from features like load balancers, block storage, and more. So deploy your cloud server in seconds using Hetzner by clicking the link in the show notes. What did I say we were going to talk about?

Uh... Oh, the Nintendo thing. Oh, okay. Yeah yeah let's talk about the nintendo thing this sucks it's weird um the the source that we picked this up from is i think kotaku and it everything about it just sucks uh did you know gaming's video about just... Basically, they posted a video two months ago, okay? Documenting the pitch that Retro Studios made to Nintendo in 2004 for a Final Fantasy Tactics-like Zelda game. Months later, Nintendo issued a copyright takedown forcing youtube to remove the video

what this is not even a game that was ever made and given that this is from 2004 in 2004 it was pitched that was 18. Clearly, that game is not happening. Yeah. It's odd. Did You Know Gaming has published hundreds of videos about the history of Nintendo games, but this is the first takedown notice from the company. And this is a note from Riley. And strangely, they started with the one that makes the least sense. The video's primary source was the original 22-page pitch document and an interview with its author, Retro Studios programmer Paul Tozur.

No footage from early game builds was shown because there were no game builds because the pitch wasn't successful. Why would Nintendo go after this video did you know gaming told kataku that it's one of the few videos on the channel that documents a piece of nintendo history that was first uncovered and reported on by us so this is original reporting from primary sources that aren't even nintendo yeah i don't even really get it like in this i mean i guess it's a dmca thing so if they wanted to if they wanted to get rid of it you have to like take it to court

because it's always presumed that the person who places the dmc down is correct unless you go to court right i think that's how that works uh you you uh well that's i think you're describing more like the process for fair use okay um but you can fair use would be a defense right of a copyright claim so yes sort of yes but like yes they can't fight this through youtube unless they go to legal they can appeal it through youtube but then it's entirely up to nintendo to just say no right yes yeah um yes yeah so like they they have no real recourse if nintendo decides that just like nope we don't care they can we disagree with you they can hardline it unless they yes to court so like what now did you know gaming also told kotaku that they heard during production of the video

that nintendo didn't like how many former nintendo employees were discussing unreleased nintendo games matter which i mean i can understand why they might not like it but also um go f*** yourself like that's not um especially i mean we're talking 18 years ago right so yeah i i get it you know when people have an nda and there's proprietary information that they are privy to as part of their employment agreement and then they leave and they start talking about that stuff that was considered to be proprietary company information especially if they're trying to profit from it that is that is absolutely an ethical gray area um however mostly for the people who the person who disseminated that information to did you know gaming though yes it's not. Not Did You Know Gaming themselves. Exactly. Did You Know Gaming is just doing what journalists do, which is finding information

and telling people who want to hear about it that information. They have done nothing wrong here. And so for Nintendo to go after them is what makes no sense. Nintendo could absolutely have a bulletproof nda with whoever and they could absolutely take legal action against that person that's within their rights that's that's i mean i'm telling you why they don't like people giving this information well because they probably feel like they have an agreement that that information shouldn't be out there but they're going after completely the wrong party in this exchange of information here did you know gaming did nothing wrong here yeah um now this is what what is this

sorry what is this tweet did you know gaming has been poking and prodding in nintendo's history for far too long frankly the best thing would be for nintendo to sue them into next year in hopes they finally go away for good whoever you are are you an idiot we don't want any form of journalism that's weird that's a bad take. Are you... Hello, Nintendo? Is that you? There's nothing really else to say about this other than that

Nintendo seems absolutely determined to be the most hated company in gaming. It's tough. It's tough, you know, when you're going up against Blizzard. Activision Blizzard, excuse me. But boy, are they ever, like,

really giving it the old college try. You know what I mean? Yeah. And in other, I guess, slightly more positive news, Nintendo has at the... I don't know if I would say it properly apologized. They've acknowledged? Acknowledged.

The official tweet says, a software update for Pokemon Scarlet slash Violet version 1.1.0 will be released on 12 slash 1. Please visit our website for more information. We take the feedback from players seriously and we'll continue to work on improvements to the games. I take issue with this. I don't think so. I take issue with, we take the feedback from players seriously.

I actually, I disagree. It impacted sales numbers a little bit. Yeah, I think that's the issue. If they took feedback from players seriously, whichever Mario Party is the first one that came out on the Switch, would have been fixed to make it actually f***ing playable. It's utterly unplayable.

The game, like the board game version of it, has so much unnecessary instructional and animation fluff actually wild with no way to skip any of it no way to turn it off the fact that that was not patched and fixed means no they actually do not take player feedback seriously they take a hit to their wallet seriously i think think by that time, that game had already kind of sold. I think it had kind of run its course, and they just stopped caring. Like, I guess we'll just make a new

Mario Party game or something. Yeah, I notably like a lot of Nintendo stuff, but I have been under... It's not good guy Nintendo. It's like never good guy Nintendo. I think it's time for me to just stop giving nintendo money i didn't buy this and it's easy for me to say when i already have a switch oled and most of the games that i care about but like breath of the wild 2 maybe i just won't buy

it oh you liked breath of the wild a lot yeah i had like almost 100 hours in breath of the wild i really enjoyed that game i have individually more or less stopped supporting pokemon games a long time ago um i haven't bought a pokemon game in forever because they're just yeah the same game they're the same game they're very uninspired in a lot of ways and when they did this like what a joke i it's actually amazing to me that like almost anyone thought this was acceptable like damn dude when it costs the same amount as breath of the wild breath of wild released a long time ago breath of wild looks better and runs better it's like what usually games start looking better and running better the longer a platform has been out yeah because developers get more used to and just the

industry as a whole gets more used to what that device is capable of and yeah pushing its limits and all the type of stuff that's a very normal thing usually launch games don't run as well and look as well as games that come around near the end of a console cycle the switch has been out for a long time and this game is like at an unacceptable level of performance that you would have expected from a very poorly forced out rushed like failed launch game not a not this just i don't know very disappointing actually not even very disappointing i'm not disappointed i expected it it's very like expected i don't know i don't know if i want to do it just block it out no just just just commit to not buying anything from nintendo yeah i don't oh because of the dmc i think on the video

because they've always been well not just that just because they suck they just suck they hate their customers and i don't understand why proportionally more than any other individual group are you just going to block out buying video games because like do they suck more than ea it's not okay okay it's not it's not just that they suck it's the spectacularly anti-consumer way in which they suck is the fact consumer the fact that there is intentionally no way to back up your game save data unless you pay a monthly subscription should actually be illegal i don't know why i don't know i can't tell you what law they should have broken hashtag not legal advice hashtag not legal advice but from my point of view the save the save data of a game is is an integral part

of the purchase that you made and the fact that that save data is tied to the console, a thing that can break, and we know breaks, that has no way of having that data recovered, if it breaks, is utterly unacceptable. And we're not talking about the old cartridge days where the battery could die and the save games could go away. That was a technological limitation.

We're talking about a console that has a f***ing micro SD card slot on it. Yeah. That they choose to not allow you to use to update, to back up your save data, unless you are migrating to a different console. So they've shown, I mean, they showed with the Wii that they are completely capable

of creating a data migration tool. They choose not to. And the fact that it's handheld, exactly. It is so much more likely to get lost or broken. Yeah, that's just, so that's one example. The not fixing Mario Party to make the bloody thing playable. I actually timed it once

i forget what the exact timing was but it was literally less than half gameplay yeah that's not great yeah you got to be able to you got to be able to skip it this is not a usable game and the way that they bully creators to be clear as well with that because i think there's been some some some misunderstanding it is playable it's just horrible to play which one mario party yeah like you can play it yeah but i won't yeah it's a complete waste of time like even my kids just want to play mini games they don't like the board game version because there is so much sitting around if you haven't played it i don't want to hear your opinion on it because you don't know play it once okay note how much tutorial and instructions you don't need

conflict you don't need to be reminded that red squares are bad every f***ing time like multiple times in a single play session it's not necessary you need to be able to turn that stuff off it's like even just a really simple like every time you load up the game like do you want hint slash guides yeah or no it's like you know the you know the like cringy stupid thing that they do with Mario Kart? Where at the end of the Grand Prix, they show the leaderboard, the entire leaderboard, with all the final scores, and then they have this just infuriatingly long... I don't know if it's skippable,

but it's just this stupidly long animation with a suspenseful third second for we know who won you already showed me yeah why if it's skippable it's fine i'm not even sure it's been a long time since i played if little kids want to sit and you know the suspense they they missed the you know flashed up updated scores or whatever yeah fine fine fine fine fine fine i understand these games are for kids i get it but why not make them usable for anyone else yeah it's annoying yeah i don't but i like them it doesn't quite i like to play the games though i don't know i don't know if uh can i take a stand

here yeah i don't know if it's quite if it's quite there i i would i would dig into like um yeah like where's this where's this line drawn because like there's other companies in gaming that have done horrible things and are doing horrible things etc so like how many how many places they're just so consistent about it yeah they just consistently hate us and will not that will not pass on an opportunity to remind us um okay hold on hold on x war 2 on floatplane says that's for bragging rights and to rub it into whoever lost. Fair enough, but mechanics to allow bragging rights while also making things skippable have existed since the SNES days. Rocket League.

You allow the winner to control if it's skipped or not. Easy. That's not a bad one. Yeah, Rocket League makes it so that everyone has to skip but it shows in the corner who hasn't skipped yet so you can like so you can shame people yeah yeah to be honest yeah but yeah yeah yeah moving on okay uh oh we should do a couple more merch messages sure because i'm sure there's a whack of them. Yes. Yeah, we've got some good ones here. Linus, as a proponent of Optane,

is the boost it gives worth the price for daily driving? No. No? Do we still use them in the editor rigs, by the way? I think so. Oh. Maybe we should take them out then. Well, my big thing with Optane was that

I wanted the lowest possible latency in the editing rigs across the board because we had observed in the past that when there would be access latency spikes to the main video editing server, Premiere would crash. And that was on a very old version of WANX server,

which is our main editing server and so my rationale not that i had any sort of reasonable um proof for it was that the lower we could keep overall system latency probably the better stability would be in premiere and because we don't need high capacity storage in those systems the cost to go obtain was actually negligible because we would just put a low capacity obtain thing in instead of like a moderate capacity high quality ssd because you won't be able to get a high quality normal ssd in anything but sort of a reasonable capacity anyway only the like really cheap stuff is available in super low cap.

So the price difference was actually pretty negligible. Isn't opting like dead? Yep. Yeah. Okay. I'll miss it. All right.

Got another one here from Robert. Second time buyer, love the screwdriver. Have any of you ever felt pressure as a public person to speak out on political things? Not giving an example. Oh, totally. Yeah. ever felt pressure as a public person to speak out on political things not giving an example oh totally yeah um like we've literally like it doesn't actually depend how you apply the word pressure because yes um but we've had like we've had big reddit threads about how

we didn't speak on something or other. Yeah. The worst is when you do talk about something. You know, the second that I, for example, condemned Russia's invasion of Ukraine, immediately my entire timeline is lit up with, why aren't you condemning these other things? Yeah. What do you think this is okay? Well, no, no, that's not, I didn didn't i didn't say i thought that was okay because i said i like waffles it does not mean that i hate pancakes yeah what i said is russian worship go f**k yourself that's all that's a good one

debbie sure i got another one here from david linus if given the option would you ever be in a movie there's a book and soon to be filmed called project hail mary you should read it while reading it i pictured you as the character steve hatch look him up okay uh i mean maybe enough time has pat. Hi. Hey. Oh, that. Yeah. Okay. Yes, yes.

That's what I'm going to talk about. Okay. Maybe enough time has passed that this is clearly like not happening. Yeah. Is that the answer? I don't know. Are we? Okay.

Should you do this? I think as long as we don't name any names or reveal any plot details, I think we can probably talk about it at this point. That seems fine. Okay. I did act in a movie. Um, it was like,

hold on. I'm going to, I'm going to look it up cause I'm probably going to get the date wrong. Um, Luke actually helped out a lot with it because some key parts of the plot were highly technical and or related to hacking and we were told that super whack we were told that it was kind of important to them that the details of because it was kind of a central plot point, we were told that the details of it were important. They wanted it to, you know,

obviously the suspension of disbelief, right? But they wanted it to not be completely f***ing stupid, you know? So Luke and I actually spent many hours. Thank you, Luke. And not all of it got approved and and if this thing comes out there's going to be like if it comes out it's going to be brain dead stupid i'll say that i will say that because luke and i went through a version made sure that everything kind

of made sense yeah and then from my understanding and i could be wrong it could actually end up being really good but from my understanding so many significant things changed after luke and i kind of went okay we've nailed down all your technical stuff it actually kind of makes sense um by the way you need to like fundamentally change some stuff because that is shockingly dumb there was some like actually like really bad i i was i was cc'd with the script writer not realizing it when i like i don't know like like any any eighth grader should know that that is stupid um i didn't go quite that hard but that was my tone um anywho so luke and i luke and i made a bunch of changes and we're like okay it actually is kind of coherent now i thought our changes were pretty good actually yeah it was i was like the the the people people

going to be asking for the luke and linus cut at some point i think yeah um the version that i looked at after those changes were made that pretty much undid a lot of the changes and took a third path in many other ways was kind of bad yeah pretty dumb yeah he sent it to me and he was like well i'm sure glad we spent many hours making this not stupid yeah um at some point i i had i had asked uh about or okay at some point there was a discussion around me being credited as like a technical advisor for like the the stuff and i was like yeah it should be both of us but i think that would be super cool um and after we got the like final version i was like hey not only am i chill with

you guys not putting me in the credits but i would actually prefer to not please don't yeah do not credit me with this because this is no longer even remotely intelligible as far as the tech side goes. It was kind of fun to do. It's just disappointing that they didn't. Yeah, it was a fun process. And like, honestly, what it turned into was Luke and I just like broing out and talking about tech. Because it was like, oh, what about the feasibility of this? And like, oh, this scene makes absolutely no sense for this character how about we not have that happen because it also

makes no sense in any way yeah um and we like essentially rewrote a lot of a lot of the movie yeah um so we just like hung out the only difference was we didn't have a camera pointed at us uh so it's like fine i'm not even mad and like it's not i wasn't being neither of us was being paid for it i didn't offer to pay you did i because i wasn't being paid for it yeah i don't like think so i don't know if it was it was really small yeah we ended up just like hanging out yeah um it was mostly because we were like interested yeah so okay here's the latest update i have on it in uh september of 2021 i emailed someone and basically said hey just wanted to see if anything came of the redacted movie uh my email is just checking in is it dead

seems dead and i got a reply uh actually quite a bit uh uh no no shortly after that yeah shortly after that not dead it's still in post-production and i said um oh cool all right any idea when it's coming and then i heard back nada it will be up to the studio. That was over a year ago. When it was actually shot was... Here's my call sheet from November of 2020. Yeah. So it was shot two years ago. A year ago ago i was told it was still in post-production and um i haven't heard anything since then i haven't followed it up since a year ago

maybe i should so like maybe it is still maybe it's still a thing and some people are making comments uh someone said that there were so many complaints about hacking scenes in movies being bad that a bunch of script writers started trying to make them intentionally bad, stuff like that. That would explain a few movies that I've seen. We didn't try to make it hyper-realistic, to be clear. There were parts that were just like, if you were watching it and you found electronics remotely interesting, you would have been like, what is even happening? So we tried to fix that. So things actually made some amount of sense.

That was more the goal. We also tried to make it kind of fun. So we added some things that would just be entertaining. Yeah. But yeah. Yeah. But yeah. Yeah. So anyway, I don't know. Maybe it'll show up at some point.

I will not be telling you guys anything about like I signed an NDA. I'm obviously going to respect it. I'm not going to tell you guys anything about anyone who was involved in it. And I can tell you guys, there's no way that you're going to get it right if you try to take anything that we talked about today and figure out what exactly we're talking about there's no way there's just no way uh so if it comes out um i'm pretty sure my appearance my appearance is classified as a cameo so i'm not even going to be in the credits or anything i'll just like be there and you'll be like what but you probably won't watch the movie anyway so you probably won't see me and you

probably won't be like what but yeah yeah yeah so so i was it was it was fun it was interesting it was cool uh i would i would totally be down to do something like that again like i said it was for like no pay at all. I just didn't care. I have a job. I don't need to make money acting. And I'm not a good actor, so obviously I'm not going to expect to be paid to be an actor.

But it was definitely fun. It was fun. It was not a porno. Yeah. Can confirm, not a porno. Nobody needs that. On that subject that subject actually markiplier what a transition released his only fans let's go for charity for charity right yeah okay what charity is it are we doing this are we are we signing up for markiplier's only fans live on the show i i'm not gonna lie, I did just Google Markiplier

OnlyFans. Yeah, there it is. I'm gonna get the real-time blur going here. Okay, all right. All proceeds will be donated to the Cincinnati Children's Hospital, in brackets, my hometown, and the World Food Program. All proceeds. All proceeds. Wow. That's one way to, you know, proceeds all proceeds wow that's one way to you know drop it out yes i mean whip it out whip it out something out yeah uh clonk it on the table be aware that this is real and i am really me simply read this in my voice uh okay yep this is this is a thing there's one post and three media one post there are 28 000 likes on the one post which indicates to me that there are at least 28 000 people who signed up for this because you can't like it if you don't subscribe for free okay so how does that work? Do you have to buy the media? I don't know. I have to confess, I have only used OnlyFans as a meme.

As a creator. As a creator and for a meme. I don't actually know too much about how it works. Does someone in the Flowplane chat want to out themselves and explain how that would work? Because somehow the money has to go to charity right but subscription is for free so subscribe to see users post would you have to pay for the media things i don't know you get the post for free or like how does it apparently there's no nudes it's only tasteful okay so what

does that mean yeah what does that even mean We were wondering about this before the show Is it like I think nudes can be tasteful And I think non-nudes can be untasteful The dong or is it like Is it different for women We could consult Yuffie Yes you buy the post Everything but the taint and balls

i'm sorry balls and taint this is a reference to a previous man show it that i would not yeah you just you just cover those up and it's fine and then it's tasteful yeah um okay i don't i don't know but i mean if you're into that uh if you want to see mark player in that way you can subscribe you can buy i don't know that i need to like i could end up meeting him at some point and i just don't need to have seen him naked i have met him this is a i actually like this story um because it's so uninteresting but i'm gonna say it anyways uh i was going to pax i was doing my normal pax thing where i'm hanging out with my friends that i've gone to pax with for a million years and we went to that starbucks i don't drink coffee but some of the other people i was with wanted some coffee in the morning. We went to that fancy Starbucks, the one where they like test out different beans or

whatever. I don't know anything. I don't know what this is, but we'll see it after. And he was standing there with the lady and he hadn't been hoarded yet. Yeah. People had not recognized him yet. So I have no idea if he knew who the heck i was but i saw him from across the room and i just did a head nod and he did a head nod back and then i completely ignored him because i was like i'm not gonna be that guy yeah i was interested in going up and saying like oh hey i'm from this thing i was going whatever but i was like i don't want to be the person who starts the inevitable wave that is going to happen whenever markiplier is at pax right so i was just like going to be a bro and just stay over here.

It was cool. Chai GPT's got us covered here. A tasteful nude photograph is one that is artistic or aesthetic in nature and does not depict explicit sexual activity or genitalia. Okay. It is a photo that celebrates the human body in a respectful and non-objectifying way. that celebrates the human body in a respectful and non-objectifying way so so no dongs uh no tacos yeah but buttocks and breasts probably okay so that's the one that i'm wondering about yeah but i think it would have to be without the so i would say cheeks are fine but you know yeah

okay starfish not so much right yeah but the top that's why i'm saying is it different for women yeah it's not it's that's not genitals though that's still considered a secondary sex characteristic tasteful i look i am not i so if if i'm not the one defining it here so if lady plier did a one of these she could be topless the definition of a tasteful nude photograph would not change based on the gender of the person depicted in the photo okay all right i had no idea it is important to note however that different cultural and societal norms may affect how a new photograph is perceived and the same photograph may be considered tasteful in one context and not in another ultimately it is a matter of personal judgment and individual interpretation.

Thank you, chatbot! Yeah, because there's a lot of obviously there's like the Free the Nipple movement and like all this other type of stuff. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know what's going on. But yeah, if you want to support Cincinnati Children's Hospital

or the World Food Program and you want to see Markiplier in a state of undress. Yeah. Check it out. I mean, he's sexy. The photo that you can see on OnlyFans is genuinely hilarious.

I don't know if that's like a good idea to show on the show or not. I showed it. Okay, yeah. The champagne bottle. The champagne bottle covering. It's very funny. That is tasteful. I would say. Okay, yeah. The champagne bottle. The champagne bottle covering. It's very funny. That is tasteful.

I would say that is tasteful. It's aesthetic. Yeah. So, all right. Yeah, moving on. Okay, what else do you want to talk about next? Did we talk about the... Oh, wait, we were supposed to do some merch messages.

Ah, very good. Okay, hit us, Dan. Yeah, that segue was too perfect. Too perfect. This is from Maximilian. Love the backpack and screwdriver. Linus, I wanted to ask your take on innovation in the VR headset space or lack thereof. It feels like nothing has happened since the index, not counting the incremental updates from Meta.

Well, I wouldn't call what Meta's been doing incremental. I mean, you got to understand a lot of what's being done is on the software side. I think as hardware enthusiasts, we can tend to be dismissive of software innovations. And you could look at the GPU space and kind of go, oh, there's like nothing happening. We only get new GPUs like every three years now. This is ridiculous. But on the software side, there's a lot happening to enhance our gaming experiences. And I think we've just got to learn to be, even if it's not as fun, not as exciting, we've got to learn to be a little more open-minded.

I mean... I would also argue that the newest update while expensive is a nice jump for people that wanted to jump in hardware oh you mean the quest pro yeah yeah yeah it's the the how slim it is uh like the the weight drop a few other like that's those are not the easiest things to accomplish um i don't know that the complete package is really my cup of tea i'd rather have something more like an index two oh yeah i'm just saying there is innovation happening i'm not necessarily saying it's the exact stuff that i would want um i would also argue that if there is a company throwing as far as i can tell infinite amounts of blank

checks at a project it might not seem the most worth investing in as a competitor while they seem to be burning to the bottom uh might as well let them do all your research for you it's a lot easier to reverse engineer than to originally engineer um so i i think competitors right now if anything are probably just sitting and waiting and going like yep keep doing it and then we'll do similar things later i don't know yeah because like it doesn't it doesn't look like we look at facebook's finance or meta whatever look at meta's financials right now like this doesn't look like the most exciting thing to jump in jump into at the moment yeah yeah okay well i think we're going to continue in the vr the vr lane we got one for him from jerry

hi linus have you looked into base stationless full body tracking like slime vr or haritora x uh even though i daily my index it's a lot of fun to put my quest and play vr chat with my whole house as a play space and with my slimes i made ever heard of these slime vr full body tracker uh no i can't say that i'm familiar with this they raised a million dollars i just like completely missed this evidently oh okay so they're just trackers that the inside out um tracking on the quest can see oh that's clever that's interesting yeah yeah that's super cool yeah no i'm sorry i can't say i can't say i've seen that before yeah yeah that's cool uh as someone who doesn't really do chat vr um i mean the concept of being in a state where i have nothing else to do that i must do such that i can just sit and talk with someone it's like foreign to me at this point. Like on it, honestly, I, I just,

I, I wouldn't actually, I wouldn't actually, I've had a lot of people ask me like, do you want your kids to like run the company? Or like, you know, are you grooming them to be YouTubers or whatever else? And I'm kind of sitting here going like, I don't regret any of my choices. I, I don't, I don't really believe in that. Or at least I, you know, I try not to. Um, but I don't regret any of my choices. I don't really believe in that, or at least I try not to. But I don't know that it's the best either. I wish I could just... There's a lot of stress involved with being on the social ladder. Just talk, you know, just hang out.

Like hanging out is not really something that i get to do very often work ending when you go home is a completely foreign concept for both of us yeah it has been for a decade um yeah there's definitely downsides to it especially around here like trades are cool. You can find immediate work. It ends when you go home. Yeah. Like the, the demand for people in trades right now is wild. Absolutely wild.

If you are any good. Oh, not even if you're good. If you show up when you say you're going to be there. Yeah. You will find work. Oh yeah. I promise you.

Yeah. Yeah. I know people that would employ you like yeah seriously i'm not exaggerating um yeah i don't know solid job security because there's way too much to work on um immediate employment out of school a lot of places that will employ you as an apprentice and and pay for or partially subsidize your your education um good pay right out of school yada yada yada it's also uh it can also be kind of a downer for me like if what i'm actually after is just like casually interacting

with people being a public figure and showing up somewhere like vr chat what are the odds that i'm just going to get to be anonymous? I mean, that happened in Star Citizen, right? Yeah. Yeah. That's a thing. I love that Star Citizen is like the metaverse

but before the metaverse was coined. It's just a star-themed metaverse. This metaverse branding is just ridiculous. I hate meta as a company name it's so annoying oh man i i don't i'm sure it'll happen eventually but i don't see myself not calling it facebook uh meta it's like it's like a much longer name now oh well okay i've got another one here from laurie do you have laurie laurie do you have

any ideas on how to collect community suggestions for products to review in the labs like voting but somehow normalizing by product type popularity i mean we could we could do like a submission system through the site or something but the goal for labs is to not need suggestions the goal for labs is to test everything everything yeah yeah i mean once we get kind of caught up the idea is that we could occasionally go back and test very consequential older products just in case people are using them and want a comparison point for some new thing that they're considering but the idea really would be to test every damn keyboard like everyone that comes out so that whatever it is you're looking for it would already be on the site that's the goal all right why don't we find another topic to jump into okay

young man crashes the game awards rants about bill clinton we can talk about that's arrested neither of us have seen the video so should we watch it i've seen the video oh oh i thought you hadn't uh i didn't watch the game awards but i didn't understand what the heck people were talking about so i watched the like 20 second clip or whatever it is that's far more enjoyment than i got out of it i just like didn't really care the complete and utter confusion of the people around him is what i'm enjoying that was probably more funny um the internet loved this i was like surprised that it was able to happen um but that's about it i don't know valve was giving away a 512 gig steam deck every minute during the game awards which is pretty crazy it's pretty cool it means i guess

they uh are doing okay in terms of catching up on their production yeah um elden ring one game of the year which is i i think that was surprising expected um i don't know if i've ever watched the game awards not that it's a bad thing i just don't watch any award shows like at all um yeah i i can't say that i'm that interested in award shows i feel like a lot of the experience can be had by skimming through the summary article the next day yeah i'm not i'm not against the concept i'm just not but i just personally just yeah apparently he was uh potentially arrested paul tassie from forbes got in touch with him he couldn't talk about being arrested um he says bill clinton is his hero um and he didn't think he didn't know who better to dedicate the award

to so he's still memeing I guess yeah I don't know alright let's move on apparently the kid has pulled a couple other stunts previously I didn't know this part he shouted free Hong Kong at a World of Warcraft panel in 2019

also in 2019 he held up a sign at the Clippers game about Hong Kong after pretending it was a sign for the team. All right. Neat. Austin Mr. Krabs asked, Hey Linus, can you quickly touch on the decision behind stopping the They're Just Movies podcast?

I gotta say, it was a bit of a shocker for me and a frustrating one. I've talked, I feel like, a lot about people assuming the worst of me lately. And this was... Why did you shove the dagger in the back of their just movies? Yeah, this was yet another situation like that that was really frustrating for me like i understand i'm sort of the the front man here um and not every decision that i make is you know necessarily uh understandable to everyone um or right uh i don't always get it right but for people to assume some kind of malice or some kind of evil or whatever else,

when we're making a business decision and doing something, it just feels so unfair. Like, sure, by all means, ask. Austin, Mr. Krabs is doing it right. Ask me. I'm not actually that difficult to get in touch with. But why would you assume, for example, that, you know, man, I've read some super frustrating stuff. Like, you know, what is up with Linus not being able to give some of his employees, you know, a little bit of time, you know, three man hours a week to record this passion project. Why is it always about all about money with him? And I'm kind of sitting here going, well, okay, there's so much wrong with this. A, it's not one hour each, but you think it's the whole, it's edited, right? So they actually do record for longer than that. They

have to edit it. They, okay, so A, you're wrong about the time commitment. It's a lot more than you think. B, I wasn't even the one who brought it up. Like, the discontinuation of the They're Just Movies podcast was not a Linus initiative. So, you're just making assumptions. There are business reasons why it probably doesn't make sense to continue. I can tell you it's not profitable, but that is not the reason

that it was ultimately shelved. If that was the reason, it would have been killed a long time ago. It was, yeah. It was a team decision and it's one that I don't know if the, if the, the team behind the podcast is going to talk about how everyone feels about it

individually, but ultimately it was a team decision that was made and we're not able to move forward with it. That doesn't necessarily mean that I'm evil. It just means that for Linus Media Group Incorporated, it doesn't make sense to continue that project. Like, what do you... Come on, guys. Ugh.

Yeah, evil Linus shoots down small podcast. Exactly. Exactly. Blaze Henry One says, Linus, you're taking random criticism on the internet way too personally. My personal critique of you on the internet. Yeah.

The thing is that it is personal, right? It is personal. It's this personal attack that is just based on an assumption rather than being based on something that I've actually done. And a lot of the time flies in the face of every public action that I've ever taken before and since. So it's just,

yeah, very very very frustrating we've taken a lot of criticism over the years sometimes it's super founded sometimes it's not oh sometimes it's very valid and it's it's i and that's one of the reasons it sucks when it's wrong i think yeah well i do take critique seriously and we are always trying to do better, which is why when the critique is not helpful and not based on anything and just sort of random vitriol, random anger that I just, I don't know how to deal with it because I can't block it out.

I have to, I have to filter through garbage in order to find these nuggets that really do make me a better person or make us a better company. Which does happen. Happens a lot. Your feedback is valuable. Some people have abused this, but all the WAN shows or anything else that I'm in, I load all the comments, which sometimes takes a while. And then I control F for my name every time because I want to know.

There's good stuff, which is nice, but there's also negative stuff. And sometimes the negative stuff is very legit and I should act on that. And I tried to, I don't know. And sometimes it's not legit and it's really frustrating. Yeah. And that's just, I don't know. That is what it is. Yeah. And you know, I totally get it. Uh, that's, it it. It's frustrating when a show that you love gets canceled. And I don't want us to develop a reputation for creating things, letting you fall in love with them,

and then ripping them away. Well, we don't want to be Netflix. Yeah. Yeah, right? I guess more on point. Yeah, like the number of the number of shows that netflix has left hanging on cliffhangers forever is it's you know what is there an equivalent to the killed by google.com site for netflix for netflix shows that have specifically

ended without wrapping up loose ends like i wouldn't count something like the dark crystal because they kind of it kind of ended it right and because it was a prequel you obviously know where it's going from here at least hbo has the courtesy to cut them before they're even finished uh no no no the infeld abrupt uh abrupt yeah people are discussing it but no there doesn't seem not not an equivalent site there is uh there's a decider some website um i don't know uh has like a list of all of them updated as of december 20 or december 2nd this year so it's pretty new um but there's no like killed by google style thing yeah okay yeah that would be that would be really interesting to see because i know they've done

it a lot oh yeah definitely and like to the point where it's really hard to motivate yourself i feel this it's really hard to motivate yourself to get invested in a new show knowing that there is a huge chance that they are just going to rug pull you and you're never going to know what happened to to to to to the poltergeist living in sarah's attic or you know whatever character or plot point we're talking about well this is the same we talked about this about google a while ago with the whole kill by google thing is it makes you not want to adopt new Google services, which then makes them kill more Google services. So it puts them in this position

where like they can't release things that are going to work because everyone's so sketched out about it being pulled anyways. So it's not good. I think Sin for the Win is trying to do the thing that you said where you will see their comment. You won't because they did it wrong but i thought you should hear this uh at luke you're looking super healthy and your hair is

fantastic and we just want you to keep living your life at its best oh thanks i uh i yeah i've lost a ton of weight like actually a lot probably more than your son weighs. Um, uh, and I still have more to go, but I'm starting to get to the point where I'm shifting gears, where I want to start building muscle more than I want to start losing weight. Cause I'm getting, I'm not there yet, but I'm getting into the area of the actual, just raw weight that I want to be at, but I'm not at the

composition that I want to be, if that makes sense. I'm still carrying too much fat. Lundo Spark asks, do we have a new name for the lab formerly known as lab 32? the composition that i want to be if that makes sense i'm still carrying too much fat lundo spark asks do we have a new name for the lab formerly known as lab 32 i think we're settled on ltt labs for now we couldn't really come up with anything way better and we already own the domain so it is what it is yeah we reserve the right to change things. Yeah, we could totally still change it. But we haven't yet.

Apparently someone registered killedbynetflix.com in 2020. So someone else had the same thought for sure. Yeah. They should do something with it. Speaking of Luke being wonderful, Luke hosts videos again now. Oh, yeah. Good job.

Lots of really positive feedback on both the ovh infrastructure tour and the yeah it was like oh wow luke appears oh that's amazing i told you i read every comment that has my name in it and i i do do that that took a long time with that video um yeah yeah i it was weird i looked at the channel and half of the videos that were up were by you and half of the videos that were up were by me and i was like what year is it i know right what's going on um i was like this feels a lot like uh like like 2015 or something yeah i know um but yeah i don't know not particularly it just happened that we had decided to do the arc challenge It just happened that we had decided

to do the ARC challenge thing a while ago. We had done the Linux challenge thing before, so that wasn't new. And we had decided to do, that I would go to France. He called dibs hard. I did, I did. I really wanted to do that.

I'm very happy that I did. But I called dibs on doing the OVH tour in France quite a while ago. And then they all just sort of happened at the same time well luke being in the art in his own arc video was not supposed to happen that too yeah that wasn't made up for a funny intro yeah just his entire part got cut from the video by accident yeah yeah so it it was more like chance than anything. Nothing's really like changing. I have more people to manage now than ever. Yeah, he does not have time to be in videos.

I'm not a regular video host. I do, once I'm actually working from office, I would like to do things like tech links a little bit more often and stuff like that. Yeah, that'd be great. I don't want to be a complete stranger, but I'm not a regular host, you know? You're not going to see me on the channel as much as you did recently.

But yeah, I do wish those videos did a little better. I will say that. But one of them was a sponsored video and one of them was... That was one with a cutting room floor room floor almost yeah so it's probably okay oh it did hunt one million there we go oh yeah no it's fine yeah you know what else is fine check this out what's this oh there we go oh there it is ltx 2023 baby july 29th and 30th 2023 at the vancouver convention center i will see you there yeah i'm actually super excited because it's been a long time since i've been to a

convention this has been the longest in my life since i ever went to a convention that i haven't been to a convention yep um so it's weird i'm excited ltx is coming back uh we are we are branding the land whale land that is official like it is so stupid how some of our branding comes to be uh was it that one your suggestion i can't remember yeah i don't remember i can't remember who suggested whale land anymore um but it was just based on like a silly conversation a lot of them are off the cuff yeah um and sarah just did such a bang up job of the branding for it the artwork that it's just like how could we possibly stop bringing

back like the whale with the chain well yeah that's one of my favorite logos the chain is never going anywhere anything we've like ever had yeah so very stoked whether it's whether it's at ltx or whether we do more standalone land events uh i believe we are going to stick with whale branding for our lands i think we're going to continue to offer whale perks so like you know five thousand dollar ten thousand dollar tickets and just like build packages around it that hopefully make sense. Which is insane, but yeah. And for everyone else,

like just normal pricing, but for, you know, Whaleland, I don't know, Whaleland, sure. General admission, we have pricing up. Single day is 35 bucks. Two days is 60 bucks. The BYOC is $100. So that will be the Whale Land as well as two days of admission.

Oh, or is that in addition? That might be in addition. Don't quote me on that. Usually those are done in addition. I think that's in addition. So it's $100 for two days of Whale Land. That actually makes way more sense, $50 a day. There's add-ons.

So you can do office tours merch packs uh either ltx or whale land merch packs and look at that we've got vip packages including the whale ten thousand dollars oh my goodness multi-day access dedicated byo cc five thousand dollar customized computer reserved main stage seating express line punch card that's right you can skip lines vip meet and greet session whale merch pack office and labs tour with transportation and lunch hotel room friday to sunday food provided during the event special thanks on ltx expo.com and more the whale package people were were asking if there was going to be whale merch i've already seen questions about that

okay oh yeah that'd be yeah yeah ticket sale wait list is uh right down here you guys are going to want to jump on that i have questions uh they might be answered on the site and i might have questions i have answers and they might be wrong because i'm not the one organizing it chase and colton are on top of that so whale land was was overnight yes uh it looks like it is wait hold on yes because usually in expo halls and stuff this appears to be overnight to me that's so sick oh that's exciting you're not sleeping that probably not let's go dude that whale land my dad was up until like your dad's hardcore he's an absolute mad lad he was up until like i think it was like six or something and then he had to teach a class the next day and he just did it and then came back.

Kept waiting. One of my buddies that was there stayed there until super, super late. Drove home. Noticed there was something wrong with his truck. Wrenched on his truck until the morning. Got his truck working and then came back. Like half the people we were with didn't even sleep. If you noticed, one of them just started

doing push-ups before we played left for dead i didn't notice that you know him i can say his name it was daris yeah yeah yeah he started doing push-ups for left dead because he's trying to get his blood flowing because he hadn't slept so he was trying to get amped up before he played us because we were like the team to beat right so i love my my like old school group of friends from high school and my dad go who's like part of that group of friends to be completely honest go go pretty hard we're used to going to pax and we're always frustrated because pax closes the land like pretty early yeah to be honest and like i get why yeah there's a lot liability concerns and lots of things absolutely yeah but it's way cooler if you

don't have to do that so i i am stoked i hope to see uh some of the people from the last whale land at this one that would be really cool there's no way they don't show up because that was a good crowd yeah that was a blast it was a lot of fun yeah yeah and if you miss them maybe it's time to disclose this if you miss them at the ltx whale land i might be working on access to a location that could potentially uh result in like quarterly land parties do you not know about this? No. Oh. That's cool. I like this. How did I not know about this?

Here, let me just give you a hint. Okay, I did sort of know about this. I just didn't know it was actually happening. It's happening. Cool. I had heard the't know it was actually happening. It's happening. Cool. I had heard the grumbles of it potentially happening. It's happening. Okay, that's wicked.

Yeah, it's happening. Very cool. It's one of those things where probably, as long as we don't lose money on it, like we did with Whaleland, from a business standpoint, I think it's great for community engagement. It's just a lot of fun.

I like fun. It was a really fun weekend what's the point of being a successful business owner if from time to time you don't just take some of that money and just do something and we like want to i i i can say this now as like a we know how as in we have done it instead of a we know how as in we have the concepts yeah but we know how to run a good land yeah it was fun yeah it was like really fun there was activities to do a lot of time and the people that showed up and we pressed people about this a lot yeah because we said like don't even bother showing up if you're not going to want to engage in group activities and we're going to have a bunch of events and group activities but people did that it was great like the the basically everyone i didn't really notice anyone there that was just being like

super anti-social wet blanket yeah everyone was engaging with stuff we would do like non-computer gaming activities like we did chair curling yeah and like the whole place was up oh yeah it was wild and hanging out and throwing chairs around and stuff like it was it was uh it was very entertaining i'm excited about this one and i'm excited about the potentiality of quarterly ones hobbs sultoff asks if you're gonna do it quarterly can you sell a lifetime ticket no no i mean the cost is like of running it every single time it's not like software um you know where like you develop it once, sell a perpetual license for it. And then,

you know, people have to like buy new versions of it later or whatever. It's like, no, no, no, no, no,

no. The actual cost is like every time. And I can tell you right now, like at, at a typical land admission, you know, like 30 to 50 bucks a day, there's actually not as much margin as you would probably think.

bucks a day, there's actually not as much margin as you would probably think. Especially here in Vancouver where rental rates are so, so expensive. When you're taking a dedicated space that big up, there's things other people could do to make more money using it, which means it's going to cost a certain amount. Exactly. I mean, yeah, sure. If it was a million dollars or whatever, yeah, fine. But like, that's not what, fine but like that's not what I'm sure that's not what you guys are talking about a 69 000 lifetime pass I mean tell you what if

you'll pay that much I will I will personally sign your golden ticket that gives you admission to every future linus media group and associated companies event all right with a regular level ticket you don't get the you don't get the whale ticket every time i think you'd actually lose money on that really quickly yeah take like two years oh man uh i i'm gonna confirm that the BYOC is extra. There, I did it. I'm, I'm pretty darn sure. Uh, oh, actually, you know what?

I have notes. Holy crap. There's a whole bunch of notes I'm supposed to be talking through. There is. Um, it's, so it'll be in the West building. So different building than last time. It's a newer building with more control over the lighting, the ability to more with signage. We're going from 78,000 square feet last time to 112,000 square feet to accommodate all the improvements we want to make.

It's going to be huge. There'll be the expo itself, office tours, giveaways, local activities, as well as the overnight Whaleland. There you go, confirmed. Let's go. All ticket prices are in USD. On-site purchases will be in CAD, but that price will just be converted from USD.

So the price will be the same. You can sign up to be notified ahead of when tickets are scheduled to go live. If you are an LTX 2020, remember the one that didn't happen, VIP ticket holder, you will be contacted by our team before tickets go live

with the email you used to purchase your 2020 ticket. We want to make that you if you if that was what you wanted you don't just get scooped by someone else and you don't get a chance to get it that's cool um ticket sales are expected to go live around the end of january and we'll update ticket info on the website before sales if any major changes occur we are going to need volunteers. You can sign up on the site to get notified when we start going through applications. Shout out to the awesome volunteers from LTX 2019. Oh, if you want to know about booths and activations, we actually have some confirmed booths and activations. We have tidbits of info on those currently listed and

we'll add more as we get closer to the event. Oh, hold on a second i want to know what we have confirmed what's what's confirmed what's going on here uh expo uh oh oh here we go returning classics the retro lounge so it'll have more retro games arcade machines phone charging stations comfy seating and more the case toss an ltx classic it's good the goal is the same as always throw a computer case as far as possible we're going to add additional lanes to help reduce wait times ltd store.com will be there so you can buy merch in person uh cpu delidding and gpu repasting will be making a return ltx is not liable for any damage that may be caused as a result of your teardown or modification of your components uh and the build a pc workshop we will be allowing people to learn the basics of computer building with real working hardware it might not be working but it'll be real um we might have to get that

fixed by the end of the workshop you should have a computer that actually boots and runs except you don't get to keep it i really don't think we should do it that way i think we shouldn't yeah you should just take broken hardware yeah we should have broken hardware well anyway we'll figure that out clearly there's still internal discussions to be had uh we have some new stuff gaming at different frame rates so you can like really feel that's cool uh the difference so we're gonna have uh since minesweeper was getting a bit stale this year's high score challenge will be 3d pinball so get practiced up cool you'll be able to do your first 3d print if you've never done one we're gonna have like an hdr experience booth it's one of those things that's really hard to describe but really easy to experience uh we're gonna have like keyboard and switch testers so you guys can try all that

kind of stuff out all the windows is pretty cool yeah yeah every windows that's cool see how computers have evolved so you'll be able to just like sit down in front of them and like try and do stuff which is pretty cool i will include games that were prominent on each os so you can kind of go through that uh that evolution for yourself lots of lots of stuff to interact with is really the goal do we um this this might maybe i shouldn't i don't know do it are uh is is bob and rod coming uh i don't know if we've explicitly reached out to them yet but if they're not there i'll be disappointed yeah so we'll have to get that uh sorted out sooner rather than later yeah bob and rod are our friends from bs mods yeah

uh rod's probably watching uh rod consider this your formal invitation yeah whatever we got to do to get you there you just let me know yeah because they did and go drag bob out of they did like a hard line tube bending yeah thing last time yeah those guys are utterly amazing yeah they were awesome yeah yeah okay rod's in the float plane chat yeah i figured hey there he is there he is all right good stuff good stuff we'll see you there man uh man haven't seen them in three years it's been a long time. Yeah. What the crap? Yeah. It's ridiculous. Yeah. Go f*** yourself, COVID.

For real though. Yep. All right. Special guests. Ah, yes. If you are part of the media or a content creator and you wish to attend LTX, please email info at ltx expo.com um as with last time we have a i'm not going to say blank check but a huge budget for flying out creators it was a really really cool element of ltx 2019 that there were just so many creators there lots of collab opportunities so even if you know meeting up with fans isn't

necessarily your favorite thing um it's just a ticket plane ticket hotel and expo ticket with really no strings attached you can come and do it however you want if you just want to get together and hang with other creators uh you know obviously we'd prefer if you spent some time with the attendees as well. But we're not going to have any kind of commitments or anything like that. Just come on out. And we just want to get as much of the tech community together as possible. We won't be able to accommodate everyone. You know, obviously, if you've got like 400 subscribers and someone with 40 000 or 400 000 subscribers also want some of that budget we're gonna have to try to you know make it make sense have as many people there that people want to do meet and greets with and stuff like that as we can but we're gonna try to accommodate as many as we can that's when it comes to trying to like help people travel there um financially but like yeah you can get you can

get media tickets no problem um also if your company wants to partner with us go to ltxexpo.com slash partners uh you can follow ltx expo on twitter if you want to get updates or Facebook or Instagram. Oh, I have to disclose another investment. I haven't actually made it yet, but I've said I'm going to do it because I think it'll probably be fine, but I haven't actually written a check. So if you guys are ultimately super mad about it, then we can just not do that. So it's like, it's not too late, but they like really needed an answer. And I think it's pretty, I think it's pretty chill. I'm not, I can't really name any names, but I will try and give as much detail as I can

in the interest of you guys understanding what it is about without causing any problems for the people involved. So someone who worked on a network storage product that i have really enjoyed using for a long time uh is no longer with that company and has a plan to create a nas software that is basically everything that I've been, that I was asking for about that software and everything that, um, you know, he, he and I have agreed on for a long time needs to be done to up and has asked me to come in as like an angel investor and basically give him a year or two of runway to get this thing off the ground. Um, obviously there's some equity changing hands, but it's not, um, it's not about that for me. and it's not about that for him.

He's already got some really interesting partnerships, and he's already got some money from an established NAS software company on whose product he will be basing his. So there's already some momentum, his so there there's there's already some momentum and i am um very supportive of like his vision for what and what an easy to what a user-friendly naz should be um and he just he doesn't want to go to a random investor what i'm trying to say is he could but he would rather not and so he came to me saying look i agree with that linus i think this is an amount of money that um you can probably afford i think that you understand my vision and believe in the product from my point of view we don't review view NAS software anyway. We use it and we will continue to use it,

but I don't see that as something that as long as we are sufficiently disclosing everything that anytime we're kind of covering that stuff, which we very rarely do, I don't see it as a huge conflict of interest, but yeah, no one seems to really care. So maybe I just don't even need to keep talking about this. Yeah, everyone in phone chat is like, hey, it's cool.

I mean, you do review laptops and you invest in a laptop company and that was fine. So like- Yeah, I mean, the thing is like, my personal commitment to you guys is that I'm not gonna let it affect anything. I haven't let it prevent, I haven't let my investment in Framework

prevent me from recommending another laptop over Framework. At the end of the day, you guys are just going to have to trust me. And this is really frustrating for me because I know of other tech creators who have undisclosed investments. We're not actually required to disclose anything. I mean, we also know of tech creators that have taken, oh.

I don't want to stir up drama. Yeah, I'm just going to keep going. Yeah. So the thing is, like, on the one hand, I think it's really easy to pick me apart and say, hey, Linus is invested in framework, so he, you know, whatever, is bad and stuff um but the reality of it is like guys um take the devil you know i guess it's what my takeaway would be yeah um and so

yeah i i'm not gonna be i'm not gonna to be, I'm not going to pull punches. I think that again, this is, this is a guy slash company who knows that I'm going to be his biggest critic as an investor. And because we've got had a long time, long-term working relationship, I'm, I'm comfortable with it. And so that's, that's why i have soft confirmed uh the amount will be quite similar to my investment in framework so it's about a quarter million us dollars and um if it comes to life whether i make back any money or not i'm going to be stoked on that investment because i really want this software to exist. It would be nice. Yep.

There's just, there's something wrong with every DIY NAS software. And the tipping point for me was when I was at home, I had gotten the email like a week earlier and been like, I don't want to deal with this. Cause I, I, I don't want to think about what's involved in saying yes, but I don't want to say no.'s involved in saying yes, but I don't want to say no. I understand why they're coming to me, but also they're putting a lot of pressure on me. I kind of wish I wasn't in this situation,

was what I was thinking. And then for a number of reasons, I had to set up a NAS with something other than Unraid. So I'm using unraid as my main like virtualization nas and it's got all my hard drives in it and i was um i was setting up a nas that was going to be using ssds for a significant amount of the storage unraid still doesn't support trim on ssds which is catastrophic for both performance and the lifespan of the drives and i was like well that's not acceptable. So, you know what?

I'm a setup trunaz. And I was going through setting up trunaz and I started drafting an email back to this person with everything about setting up trunaz that is just needlessly obtuse. And I talked myself into it i was like clearly the product that i want to exist does not exist and it might not it might not be needlessly obtuse it is needlessly obtuse don't make me show it to you in a professional stand no it's oh well yeah sure but i'm talking but he's talking about personal at home nas which like

doesn't need to be overly complicated there are some people that are gonna gonna have home labs and they want that level of complication because it's like an experimental ground for them no there's no reason for it to not work out of the box no you can have complication and you can have it be endlessly configurable i'm not arguing with that but it should work out of the box or if you press a thing that doesn't work that is that is that contradicts another thing it should tell you if you're gonna pop up an error message it should be a verbose and helpful one no i reject that i think an error message being verbose and helpful makes sense i don't necessarily think the kind of thing i'm talking about i don't know 100 what you're describing that's yeah that's what i mean by obtuse well that's not always what that

means okay because you could mean you could mean there's too many options or too many settings or whatever no no no okay i know so obtuse means um like it's kind of like needlessly complicated uh or like unnecessarily difficult so here's something yeah but okay you can't rename the root zpool okay unless you use the command line you can do it in the gui are you there's a gui place to to rename it but you can't you just can't okay but you can totally do it if you just like enter two commands so why don't you put a thing in the gui and on the back end it just issues those two commands that's fair enough okay that's that's obtuse. Yeah, okay. An SMB network share can be created,

but cannot be accessed unless you create a data set for your Zpool and happen across the little dropdown to set it to SMB type. That's obtuse. So you would want it to automatically do that? That took me two days to figure out. I would want it to prompt me. When I create my SMB share, it should say, hey, you haven't created a dataset for your Zpool

and set it to SMB type. Or you haven't set your Zpool to SMB type. Clearly, I want an SMB network share, and if there's a dependency, I should be prompted prompted if you have a it should operate like gui software i think that's fair enough i i do want to defend like

command line straight up versions yeah that's fine and that's not what i'm that's not my problem yeah my problem is if you have a gui that has a field and there's obviously there's no like operating system breaking problem that prevents you from changing that field because you can totally just do it with two simple commands then you should be able to just change it yeah yeah that's obtuse that's what that word means um yeah also like every other nas software i've ever used, missing the most basic of buttons, the restore everything to default button. Yeah.

How on earth does that not exist? Anyone can accidentally change something. Anyone, no matter how experienced. There should be a, hey, just reset to default, both with or without destroying data sets factory reset settings is a nice thing to have um so you know this is just this is the kind of oh yeah it was a total pain in the butt to verify that i had installed to a mirror after once you're booted it's like not obvious that your boot drive is

mirrored uh which was really annoying hidden behind some stupid drop down uh deleting a random extra directory required a command line for some reason like just obtuse which again it requiring command line i don't have a problem with on its own but when it's for normal users then yes if it's to delete a directory that like i can view but just is impossible to remove unless i go into the command like anywho obtuse and so that's uh that's that's my hope um that's what i hope this would solve that's my hope. That's what I hope this would solve. That's what I hope. Oh, man.

I feel like we were looking at the topics for this week's WAN show thinking like, what are we going to talk about? And we have been live for like over two hours. Yeah, I told you, we can riff on stuff sometimes. Yeah, iCloud now has end-to-end encryption, and the CSAM thing where they're searching for child sexual abuse material in iCloud photos has apparently been scrapped. They will still be monitoring iMessage.

The FBI is none too pleased about the increased iCloud encryption, saying in a statement, this hinders our ability to protect the American people from criminal acts ranging from cyber attacks and violence against children to drug trafficking the british are apparently super upset about it as well obviously we are we take a realistic approach we are mostly pro encryption pro personal privacy but also understand the other perspective i think is kind of fair to a fair way to, yeah, to, to frame our stance on this sort of thing.

Um, I also just, I don't know, man, I, I don't, I don't trust Apple that much. Um,

I mean, I guess technically, technically this is, this is verifiable. It's just that the way that Apple protects their chinese users data is not very protected at all it's i don't know they've they've they've shown a willingness they've they've they've gone to they've gone to bat um for user privacy before um like the san bernardino uh killers case was a was a really high profile one but then they've also completely

caved um when the stakes are high enough like that if you go into if you go down the rabbit hole on that data center that they are mandated to store all chinese users data on and how it's like essentially run by the ccp okay yeah and once you have physical access to a server nothing else matters yeah so xbox games are 70 now though yeah are playstation games as well i don't think so can we just can we talk about the fact that this is even news Like the fact that games were pinned at $60 basically from my childhood until now is incredible. Yeah. How much would that be?

Doing an inflation calculator thing. Yeah, sure. Yeah, let me, I'll do it real quick. I'm looking up. So, oh, this is probably Canadian. Modern Warfare 2 on PlayStation is $90 Canadian.adian that doesn't that's probably about 70 bucks yeah because i thought i thought playstation did it already that's why i was saying this but maybe i was wrong i don't know in 1992 if i purchased an item for 60 then in 2022 that same item would cost 127.45 which in fairness if you buy like a

complete package or all the dlcs many games actually do cost that much definitely but there's been this there's been this um unwillingness or inability or whatever it is there's there's been this this block that has kept game developers from especially on console from deviating from this like 59.99 sell price yeah i think they would have to all do it simultaneously for like the triple a 69.99 price thing um or whatever it is but or 59 was it because i'd be 60 apparently playstation has been 70 for ps5 yeah so i thought so sony blinks first yeah yeah that's and that's a difficult thing to do because you're competing against another console and if that other console all their games is 10 bucks cheaper like i don't know that can be rough yeah this is pretty big uh adobe is going to be selling ai stock images i have so many issues with

they brand this as amplifying human creativity i mean i think it can but when it's trained off of other people's art it's such a huge issue i went to someone commented on last episode um saying that they were stunned that i had never heard of something uh in the notes there was something they they fed gpt3 prompts into this other thing and it gave them interior design stuff i had never heard of the thing that they used and it was an ai art program yeah so i went to go check it out the front page for this i don't already don't remember the name it doesn't matter the front page for this ai art thing puts i think it's like six or nine

random recently generated ai art photos yeah on the front one of them was like almost freaking identical to something that i've seen before so i like called my girlfriend over and showed her and was like i know where this photo came from and i want you to see it before i go look for it so i can prove that i called this yeah and i went and found the original and it's like almost spot on It looks like someone did some like fairly mild filters in Photoshop. Right. And it was like, done. Like it's really close. People are trained with other people's art.

It's not the same at all. That's a bad take. It's like when you farm it out this way, it becomes not similar. Yes, of course, people are trained off of other people's art. People are trained off of other people's everything. That's how learning works. But when you have it

copy, it becomes a bit of a problem. These things being original works becomes very questionable. Their generative AI policy prohibits submissions based on third-party content, including text prompts referring to people, places, property,

or a particular artist's style without authorization. So the prompt can't be a particular artist's style, but it can be trained off of that artist. That I don't know. They're saying that they are going to seek to compensate people whose art

is used to train the ai of course this is a process that we have no way of actually validating as outsiders yeah we're heading into interesting waters apparently some playstation 5 games are 80 by the way oh yeah so that means xbox games are still cheaper yeah i guess so depending on depending on which one is it 79 when they say it's $70 now is it $79.99 or is it $69.99 i don't know i would hope they mean $69.99 yeah yeah man ah see i'm already i'm already screwing it up we're supposed to stop calling $69.99 $69.99 we're supposed to call it $70 i don't know if it's gonna work james is right but i just don't know if it's gonna happen yeah oh merch messages what about him hit me dan okay i'm going to hear from elliot what do you think the education system

can will do to counter the use of ais like chat gpt for cheating um i guess you know you could also think about these uh adobe ais as well well. Luke and I talked about this afterward. I mean, I think one of the big things is going away from assignments that are right this thing and moving towards assignments that are more based around critiquing or validating a thing.

I think that, I mean, you know what's interesting? I was thinking about this after we talked and one of the things that we did in my like challenge English class was we would actually have to write the entire assignment in class sometimes. Is that valuable? Yeah.

This comes back to the calculator question. Oh, yes. Okay. It's, well, it's valuable for the teacher because yeah but is it valuable for the student oh okay yes like is doing five times five valuable in a world where you have calculators but that's not what you're doing because in this case we're talking about essay writing so what you are doing is you are practicing the process of making an argument, which no, you are not going to be able to replace with an AI because you're going to have to make arguments verbally as well. So you are training the skill of creating an argument, backing it up, and then summarizing your argument. That's what an essay is.

And for the teacher, they are then marking not just your grammar and spelling or whatever else, they're marking your thought process, your ability to construct a cogent argument, which is arguably the most valuable possible life skill if you cannot convey your ideas in a convincing way to other people what possible hope do you have that's why i liked we've talked about this before when my i've found a teacher that wouldn't mark me on my punctuation quite as hard all the time because there was no way i was gonna ever get that right yeah with the the dyslexia stuff and whatnot like it was always going to be a problem. So it was nice when he started grading on those things a little bit more. And that makes sense.

You know what's something very fun to do? Yeah. Is ask GPT how classrooms should operate in a world that has GPT in it. Oh, interesting. It actually gives like pretty good answers related to kind of what you were just saying. Oh, cool. I wasn't actually in disagreement. I was just challenging the statement. Yeah, yeah, yeah. um but like it's i won't have to fire you oh good yeah my

job remains as long as you don't actually disagree with me publicly that was an almost straight face delivery of that i am 100 joking i feel like i have to clarify that these good i don't have to fire you um um yeah it's it's it's interesting it talks about um just doing things in in when it would be a problem potentially slightly different ways um having people do observed original creation a little bit more like you were just talking about um but it also talks about how in some cases not that one um the the calculator problem like what is really the point if the point isn't something slightly alternative um like maybe you should get them to to do things that are more alike what they would do with this output because output is not always going to be perfect or it might not always be what you're looking for. So you need to learn refinement

and you need to learn like- Yeah, you could just grade harder. Like that's another thing too. Like if the assignment is a book report on the adventures of Tom Sawyer or something like that, you could basically tell them, look, you can use any tool you want, including an AI generator uh but

know this if you get a plot point detail wrong or you have a spelling error you immediately lose 50 of your grade because i'll be able to tell you didn't read it so you need to know the subject matter cold in order to tell if the AI output is actually accurate. I like this one. Someone said have more in-class debate. That's an interesting one. There's maybe some problems with that. I don't know.

Yeah, not everybody participates in class. And like oral participation is sometimes it encourages the wrong people yeah to participate too much and doesn't allow um some of the more thoughtful people especially if we're talking like high school some of the more thoughtful people to really share what they're thinking, there's no perfect solution. So what you really need is a balance of different approaches. I think really the most important thing, and I've been surprised at how many don't,

I've also been, okay, yeah, I've got a couple of things to go over. I think it's very important that teachers are aware of its existence and that they don't necessarily continue following the exact status quo that they have been for a while because this is going to change the game. Something that I've been surprised about, people have been throwing around usage statistics. It got to 1 million users in five days, which is pretty crazy. And they've been comparing that

to other meteoric rises of other things like Instagram and Facebook and yada yada. Sure. I'm actually surprised it's not more. Really? Maybe the speed, like five days to get to 1 million. Okay, sure. I'm just surprised the number that it got to wasn't actually higher because I'm stunned that like every student that has heard of this is not immediately using it.

Yeah, because the window for using it yeah is very narrow yeah the education system is going to respond they like have to um and it's still online now it is now bookmarked and always open on my computer at all points in time because i have started because that's how he's always been doing his work anyway by cheating so he might as well cheat more efficiently i mean if i could why not um but like i've never done a real day's work in my life uh if you can take shortcuts that are good that like there's one of my one of my best friends growing up um used to this is not how he said it but he effectively said like being lazy is a virtue yeah because and he's a back-end developer now it makes sense um because he will find ways to like not have to do this repetitive task or whatever it doesn't mean he's worse at it

but he's going to be creative and inventive to make it so that that thing is better or is now automated or whatever else um and like yeah you should use the tools you have. Um, but I use it in place of Google search sometimes now. Yeah. I'm careful. You got to validate. You have to validate. Yep. Um, but like, yeah, there's, there's fairly simple things that I'll Google to try to get an answer for. And I'm like, okay, I got three ads. I got some clearly clickbaity websites that are just throwing like, like something that I hate doing is searching for reviews of like anything

that isn't a section that has large creators behind it because you're just going to get all these websites that are just like Amazon click farm websites that just try to to give you like oh this is the top 10 dbd oil whatever whatever snowboarding goggles like scuba whatever like anything that you're looking for it'll just be like ah and what are they actually well probably the top 10 products on amazon and every single one of them has an amazon link because they just want you to use their affiliate so they can make money that's all they actually want it's not not actually good. It's so annoying. So with like those types of things, it's nicer to be able to just ask GBT and have it spit out

an answer that is actually an answer right away. It might not be right. And you need to verify and you need to make sure that it's not like complete crap. But it's usually if you know that it will confidently lie, in my opinion, it's not that hard crap, but it's usually, if you know that it will confidently lie, in my opinion, it's not that hard to notice when it is. Yeah. But you have to be aware that it will do that. Yeah.

Dan. Sure. Do you want to stay on the same vein or switch to something else? Yes. Okay. This one's from Brian. Stack Overflow has banned the use of chat

gpt completely blanket ban all of it uh do you think this is the right move do you think we need some sort of ai detection for these kinds of systems uh not gonna lie i was reading what do you think education system could you counter the a okay now the third one the third one yeah the bottom one there you go wait the bottom one no stack overflow one. Yeah, the bottom one. There you go. Wait, the bottom one? No. Stack Overflow has banned the use of chat GPT at all. So I heard about this. Do you think this is the right move?

You think we need some sort of... I don't think there's anything they can do about it. Yeah. How are they going to prove it? Yeah. The outputs from that's the thing. Like what's that? GPT seem to be unique. It's like,

it's like banning being gay. Like people are going to do it anyways. Yeah. It just is. And so, um, all you're, all you're doing is forcing something underground which is not

beneficial to anyone um yeah it's uh i don't know i don't really get the ah there's a lot of controversy around this because people think it's going to take their jobs um i don't necessarily think so and banning it ain't going to change that that too i am pretty strongly of the opinion and i've talked about this offline i don't think i talked about this on the show much um and i felt this much more strongly after watching theo's video on this um am i going to be able to yeah so theo the Theo, the, the CEO of, of ping.gg, we use, um, them for our remote calls. So like when I was in France and Serbia and we had to do WAN show, we used ping.gg. We've used them for remote calls for a while.

Um, he makes YouTube videos as well, and he has a pretty good video on using it for development. Now he's much more of an advanced developer so he was not as interested in using it all the time because i think the best use case for it right now is for people that aren't um so he's more interested in things like uh co-pilot and whatnot because he's actually going to get in there and write stuff originally um but he got it to do some impressive things he also got it to fail which is i think what pretty much everyone has done who's been using it but yeah after watching his video i felt this even more strongly i think companies that do layoffs say say uh gbt4 comes out and the new chatbot is like crazy if i if i these are numbers are going to be wrong if i

remember correctly oh man what was it gpt3 is on like 300 million or 3 billion functions that it was trained on or something that's probably wrong and gpt4 is going to be like what's it like four times or five times as much like gpt4 is going to be a, is it like four times or five times as much? Like GPT-4 is going to be a big jump, theoretically. You have some diminishing returns and whatnot, but it's going to be a big jump.

GPT-4 will be over 500 times larger than GPT-3. That means that it would have roughly the same number of parameters or connections as there are synapses in the human brain. Yeah. So you think GPT-3 with a chatbot is pretty cool? the same number of parameters or connections as there are synapses in the human brain yeah

so you think gpt3 with a chatbot is pretty cool gpt4 is coming baby uh it's gonna be nuts so like this is this is happening um and it's going to get a lot better does it have flaws right now yes one of the big ones that i've talked about is the rate limiting stuff that's a thing if it could just write and write and write and write and write, it would be significantly stronger. One of the biggest problems that I'm having my normie friends run into right now is they try to write it,

get it to write some code for them and it doesn't work. And they asked me why it doesn't work and they sent it to me and I'm like, oh, because yeah, I mean, it stopped writing partway through. It's truncated. Code doesn't end.

So, but it's coming. And i think the companies that do mass layoffs because whatever version maybe like gpt7 becomes good enough that you can replace certain levels of developers with it the companies that do layoffs because of that are going to be the ones that fail yes long term and the companies that go, wow, the developers that we have on staff right now are so much more just betterer that we are producing at a higher rate, that we are more competitive, that we are this, that we are that.

Our code base is more stable because people are able to spend more time working on maintenance tasks, all these different things. The companies that see that and either they don't fire, they either stay at their current staff levels or they hire more because their company is more effective at doing the thing that it tries to do are going to be the companies that succeed.

I feel quite strongly about this. I think you're going to see companies take short term gains in the way of laying off people to lower their salary count that they have to pay compared to their income. And then you're going to see other companies that don't take those short-term gains. They keep working at the level that they have been, and they just start massively outperforming this other company that laid people off. And this company that laid people off is going to go bye-bye. And the company that didn't is going to notably succeed i think and deeply hope that that's what's going to happen with that said there's been some pretty good discussion in the float plane chat about why stack overflow might have banned it and there's two good reasons one is as a as a cover your ass

move so that if someone does something catastrophically wrong based on an answer they got in the forum, they can point it and say, well, that was like an AI generated thing, which is totally banned on our site. We'll remove it. Sorry about that. Number two is because it's spitting out a lot of wrong answers and they don't want to pollute the validity of the information on their site with these GPT outputs. So they're hoping that

by banning it, they will get fewer chat GPT outputs that will lead people down the wrong path, maintaining the brand perception of their site. So I think those are pretty valid reasons. They should find a way to get chat GPT to pay them for probably learning off of their website. But as it's completely open, I don't know if that's really a realistic thing. Yeah, I mean, that that makes sense. It does do a lot of I've said it every time and I try to say it very often, just in case people haven't used it before and they start using it. It is confidently wrong often um you can you can help that a little bit by refining your inputs and whatnot um but yeah okay yeah there's a

meme someone put out which was like uh before gpt chat whatever um i spend what was it like six hours writing code and i spend six hours debugging code. It's like after GPT-3, I spend, I think it's like 35 seconds writing code, and I spend 24 hours debugging code. And it's like, yeah, there are those types of problems with it. So it's definitely not perfect. It's just quite incredible to have in the tool set. Yeah, I think I was telling calinan about that today the 30 seconds to write code um this one's from noah though hey linus and

luke what are your thoughts on using large language models in game development it's just all ai today i feel like even though they can't have their own opinions, they can be perceived like they do. Yeah. Kind of cool. It already has been. If you just walked up to a random NPC and could have a long conversation with them, I feel like it could be really good for immersiveness,

but really bad for gameplay. Like it's, it's really cool. If, again, if you want to go down a rabbit hole, I've recommended one rabbit hole already this show, but this one's really cool. Um, look into the ways that game developers will try to guide the player through the level, guide the player through the level, through the experience, be it through lighting or through, you know, studying player decision-making and creating mazes that are hard,

but you can totally get through them. It's incredible. And so muddying up the important data that the user may gather from non-player characters with genuinely engaging conversations could be a big problem. There's also down that same line, in the same way that people who design malls and you see a ton of this in Vegas, there's lots of like neurological stuff with how you perceive light reflections and different colors of things and whatnot.

So different malls and whatnot will be designed in a way that they use certain materials on the floors in the hallways and different materials on the floors in the shops uh to to guide you in different directions and to make it difficult to leave that's a big one um it turns out that you're just a monkey and someone is playing you there's lots of ways to influence you a smarter monkey is doing it all the time yeah uh there's peoples with doctorate there's lots of people with doctorates whose whole job is to keep you using certain apps and services yeah that is totally a thing they're gonna get you um okay but yeah i like that idea i think dan even mentioned this in the chat but how feet like one of the problems that i would see with that is prompts but you could feed it prompts based on your your actions in the game or like your details

about your character stats about your character all this different type of stuff yeah that could take uh in-game conversation to an interesting different level especially because you can get large language models to speak in certain ways like you can get it to speak like a pirate so like that wouldn't even be that's pretty cool a couple of people have brought up how useful it is for dwarf fortress because it generates so much text but isn't written very naturally and chat gpt can like fix it right up which is pretty cool that is cool all right what's next okay i got a super important one here for luke um what's an ideal sandwich for you your ideal sandwich all right thank you producer um i think probably two rtx 6000s i got so many comments

about that um and i knew i would the second so i say rtx 6000 in the uh the shadow video and the amount of people that were like rtx, RTX 6000 doesn't exist, idiot. And I'm like... I linked a bunch of people to the page, and then eventually I was just like, I'm not going to respond to these anymore because there were so many of them on floatplane. Why didn't NVIDIA just keep the Quadro branding? Yeah, it would have been a lot better.

It would have been way better. So that anyone actually knows what the heck you're talking about. So RTX 6000 is a dumb name. I was happy on float plane, the ever better comment area, that there was only like one person that said it. And people responded being like, here's the link. This is what it is.

He didn't actually just make that up. On YouTube, there was none of that. Go YouTube. But yeah, I'm assuming the sandwiches question is coming from me calling them GPU sandwiches in that video. They might just want to know what kind of sandwiches you like.

Also that. I don't know. I like lots of sandwiches. I'm boring. You're a tuna guy? Tuna's okay. What about like a turkey sandwich? Get that mayo turkey.

Get some of that salt and pepper on there. Yep. All right. I like chicken. Grilled cheese sandwich. I like black force ham sandwiches. Get that mayo turkey. Turkey sandwiches are good. Get some of that salt and pepper on there. Yep. All right. I like chicken. Grilled cheese sandwiches. I like black force ham sandwiches. Okay. All right.

Grilled cheese sandwiches are great. All right. So you'll eat anything that moves. Yeah. Okay. Sandwiches are good. All right. Fine.

Yep. A lot of sandwiches don't move. Sandwiches are beautiful. Sandwiches are fine. I like sandwiches. I eat them all the time. Ah, sorry.

Go ahead. I thought that was a real question about sandwiches. I didn't all the time. Uh, sorry, go ahead. I thought that was a real question about sandwiches. I didn't know what's going on. Um, this is from, uh, Kalan. Uh,

do you have any tattoos, any notable tattoos around the company? There are notable tattoos around the company. Yeah, I don't have any though. Me neither. Yep. You're going to often find that we're rather boring.

Yes. Like, I like vanilla. Yeah vanilla yeah yeah actually maybe not too much vanilla just just a reasonable amount of vanilla yeah okay and last one here's from ethan how long do you think it will take for intel arc to be competitive in the creative slash professional market blender already supports it but it's my understanding that it kind of sucks the long time go go ahead if you have specific av1 rendering tasks that are stable it seems to be quite good um yeah i think they might mean like like solid works and stuff though

yeah i haven't done any of that yeah they don't even have a professional line of gpus yet so let's uh let's not put the cart before the horse give them a second on that one they're focused on data center and gaming and there's a whole lot of in between that i think they can fill in later um bill s asks if nintendo wanted to collaborate LTX Expo, would you accept them as a sponsor? I think we would disclose to them that we're not that happy with a lot of the things that they do. They have not been all that interested in working with us. Yeah, yeah, I mean. I think probably because we've been quite open about this for a very long time. Yeah, I think that one's a non-issue.

And finally, Eric E asks, big fan of the show and the channel. one of my hobbies outside of tech is cooking what are your favorite pieces of tech that you use in the kitchen i love my microwave you still haven't used it have you technically tech i used the jewel once did you actually it was a few weeks ago how was it fine um i didn't leave it in i'd used it for steaks And I didn't leave it in the Like long time I left it in the minimum amount of time And that was a huge Mistake

So they were pretty tough They were cooked But they weren't good It somewhat defeats like the whole purpose I was in a hurry To cook and i was like yeah oh you know what i'm totally gonna try the jewel lol that's one of its big downsides is if you're in a hurry you probably don't want to use it don't use it if you're hungry yeah yeah yeah yeah you

gotta like know that you're going to be eating a meal in a while and then be willing to go set it up yeah and then it's pretty good and it's not it's not gonna make like the best steak you've ever had but it'll consistently do a really good job yeah and you still need to sear it you seared it yeah right okay yeah yeah oh yeah definitely they're like gnarly if you don't think very unappetizing um barton the Linus be like this water is too spicy yeah that's fair um I think that's pretty much it for the show today thank you so much for tuning in we will see you again next week same bad time same bad channel bye that time in a bad channel