The WAN Show - I'm Furious But NVIDIA Is Right - WAN Show September 22, 2023

Starting point is 00:00:00 What is up everyone and welcome to the WAN show! I was up until 5am two times this week and about 3.30 last night so the energy might be a little lower. And highly trained. But we've got a great show for you guys today! We're going to be talking about NVIDIA's recent assertion that native resolution gaming is dead. Long live DLSS. And oh I don't know if I can argue with them about this there was a massive xbox leak revealing plans for consoles controllers games and dreams of acquisitions what else we got to talk about this week microsoft announces co-pilot for the 78th time or something around there i'm not entirely sure and a video that came out recently that was

Starting point is 00:00:45 actually quite fantastic the mom and pop computer shop video that came out yesterday was that yesterday that's a topic we're gonna talk about some of the behind the scenes stuff oh fun all right let's go right into our first topic yesterday nvidia officially released dls s 3.5 so far it's only supported in cyberpunk 2077 and creative tool chaos vantage but dls s 3.5 it's kind of cool it adds ray reconstruction which uses a supercomputer trained ai network so buzzwords an AI network yeah cool to generate higher quality pixels in between sampled rays by recognizing lighting patterns from training data and recreating them during play huh Nvidia claims an 8% frame rate boost in cyberpunk 2077 over DLSS 3 and also claims that it is less demanding on the GPU,

Starting point is 00:02:08 though that has not been quantified. This is wild, though. In response to a question about whether NVIDIA plans to prioritize native resolution performance in GPUs, Brian Catanzaro, NVIDIA's VP of Applied Deep Learning Research, stated that relying on brute power to improve graphical fidelity is a sub-optimal

Starting point is 00:02:30 solution when Moore's Law no longer seems to hold. Instead, the future of gaming graphics will be a greater reliance on AI-assisted rendering and upscaling. According to Catanzaro, smarter technologies like DLSS need to be implemented

Starting point is 00:02:48 to improve graphics fidelity and circumvent the otherwise low gen-on-gen performance improvements seen in today's graphics hardware. This is a quote, I think. Yep, DLSS AI will eventually be able to replace traditional rendering entirely. Now, I think there's a ton for us to unpack here, because first of all, looking at it from a right-now-today perspective, I think it's fair to say that most gamers would strongly prefer to just render at native resolution and have an identical experience every time the game is rendered accurately no matter what hardware they're on right and it just all comes down to well how well optimized is your hardware but i would actually okay there's there's a few things that i want to kind of bring up as uh as sort of a a devil's advocate sort of argument um but I mean do you think that's fair to say most gamers would rather just game at native res not

Starting point is 00:03:52 necessarily um I I think I would be a little bit sketched out if I was a competitive player trying to put something that's going to potentially like yeah it seems pretty good most of the time but maybe it it doesn't show me the thing that i need to see perfectly the one time i need to see it right because you might actually be aiming at a pixel yeah so like uh i don't know but if i'm playing single player games i don't i don't know how much i care as long as it looks really good it's probably fine you know so here's and and i i mean i think we can see from the uh not just sorry not just aiming at a pixel either and oh maybe this kind of ruins the competitive game argument um but also like pixel perfect jumps pixel perfect timings various you could be competitive in a single-player game that you're trying to be runs or something like that

Starting point is 00:04:49 Yeah, yeah, yeah All right now. Here's here's before you guys before you guys get too far ahead Oh Do we have a problem? trying to figure that out seems like maybe just flipping back not sure okay cool before we before we get too far ahead of ourselves here here's I at least seems like the chat is mostly on the same page as as my sort of perception of the situation they would rather not rely on these AI upscaling

Starting point is 00:05:27 or machine learning solutions. But can I just make a small point? In game development, how often is it that we are seeing hacky solutions that are implemented in order for us to achieve playable frame rates? You know, whether it's, man, I remember doing this going down this rabbit hole into how Reflections in the scope of a rifle are done in traditional gaming versus path traced or ray traced gaming where the kind of hacky solution where they're there they basically create

Starting point is 00:06:04 I forget exactly what it was but where the kind of hacky solution where they basically create, I forget exactly what it was, but the way that they could do that with a minimal performance impact and still have it seem relatively accurate just absolutely blew my mind. What is the difference? There. That's kind of my question to you. What's the difference if it's implemented at a driver level by an NVIDIA or an AMD?

Starting point is 00:06:28 Versus if it's implemented game by game in order to optimize the game your thoughts Yeah reflects a pre-rendered image is at least one of the techniques for that I Don't know. Something that concerns me about a lot of this kind of stuff too is like what we saw with Starfield. I know I'm like giving kind of a politician answer, so I'm not answering the question that you asked.

Starting point is 00:06:56 I'm still going to ask you to answer the question I asked. Sure, go ahead. But like we saw that come out without DLSS, right? And sure, the community was able to respond that time. And there was a paid solution, then there was free solutions. And then now Bethesda said that they're going to bring native DLSS to Starfield. And that's cool and whatever. Sounds good.

Starting point is 00:07:16 But if the quote that I heard that kind of spooked me a little bit of Dss slash ai will eventually be able to replace traditional rendering entirely like uh that sounds like we're gonna run into a lot of issues um i feel like that would that would bring problems in in relation to like abandon where dead games that you can't play anymore because there's like some weird thing going on with how it was expected to work at one point in time but now our current rendering paths are different um i also think uh that there's a lot of potential for really not cool combat between the various companies that have their very proprietary solutions they're trying to sponsor a game and then they try to you know line pockets to get them to not actually

Starting point is 00:08:11 include certain solutions so it's basically unplayable on whatever graphics card and then like the performance difference between brands ends up being really dramatic depending on uh the company and the partnership that they had with the GPU company. I mean, whether the anti-competitive stuff happens or not, it's not like we haven't seen similar things in the past. And I just don't, I don't necessarily know if it's going to be any different than, you know, your TressFX and your Hairworks and your PhysX and all the different things that we've seen over the years. And can I just, can I again play devil's advocate again here and say, okay, but what if the AI-assisted version

Starting point is 00:08:55 is just legitimately better? Seeing what they can do with the amount of diarrhea on a modern GPU that is dedicated to this machine learning processing, going through these trained models. If that advances at a faster rate than just raw GPU grunt, I mean, could we see a game developer be able to design like this? You remember this, right? NVIDIA Canvas. Yeah, yeah. I mean, obviously, this wasn't being done in real time at 60 to 500 frames per second

Starting point is 00:09:36 when they first showed it off. But I think it's pretty clear that in the machine learning space, we're seeing a development or an advancement curve that is much faster than traditional GPU raster rendering. So with that in mind, is this a better way? I think it kind of already is. Even with 3.0.

Starting point is 00:10:03 Because we're already in a situation where we are... It's clear that 4K is kind of the final frontier for you to have any hope of high refresh rate gaming. I just... I don't foresee... And you know what? I'm probably going to end up eating these words at some point, but I don't foresee a reason.

Starting point is 00:10:30 I don't foresee any need for us to drive games at significantly higher resolutions than that natively because you have so much data to process at 4K that you could upscale it, not but wow a lot yeah um yeah and just the the just the general improvements that you get from it are something that we've recommended people use for quite a while now so like yeah yeah so okay so i see i see 4k is that much better now basically the the end of that, which is almost kind of an argument against my point,

Starting point is 00:11:07 in that if we're not trying to push resolution higher, well, then the obvious answer is to push visual fidelity higher. But then looking at, oh, shoot. Yeah, Starfield. What's that technique called where they actually scanned real objects in order to get the texture quality super high? Sorry, say again? They scanned real-world objects in order to get the texture quality super high? Sorry, say again? They scanned real-world objects in order...

Starting point is 00:11:28 Yeah, I feel like Dan is going to know. Photo something. Photogrammetry. Photogrammetry, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So if you could just create all of your in-game assets with photogrammetry and then just run basically almost like a mocap sort asset library of the game in a sense like you kind of get what i mean right yeah but that's because we're coming back to this that seems even more concerning for multiplayer games and like sure there's there's been this like what about destructible environments and multiplayer games using that setup?

Starting point is 00:12:27 Oh, as long as you, well, actually hold on. That could be a way to make destructible environments manageable from a performance standpoint, because if you've got this material and you've assigned characteristics to it, then all you need to do.

Starting point is 00:12:44 So the geometry isn't done that way. Yeah, so all you have... Now you can spend all that compute on geometry, and then exactly, the textures, or like the unique scarring of the surface or whatever, yeah, that might differ from one player to the next, but it'll be probably reasonably close until someone discovers that

Starting point is 00:13:07 if you wear like a, like a, an all, an all like, um, blacked out, you know, suit or something like that. And you happen to stick close to like where explosions where you can hide or something, you know, I'm, but what's the difference, Luke? People are already exploiting everything anyway. Yeah. So it's just, it's just it's just a new thing to do right like you know don't don't pretend you know your hands are totally clean i

Starting point is 00:13:31 see you and joe playing tarkov with your second monitor with your discord seeing each other's viewpoint like that's not technically the way it's meant to be played but realistically everybody else who's squatted up is doing it anyway so okay fine then at a certain point it's not like unfair it's uh get good if you don't don't hate the player hate the game yeah i just see dress in black sometimes you'll see engine demos and those engine demos will like look really sick the fidelity will be super high. But then you start kind of diving more into it. You start figuring out, okay, creative modding from the community in this engine is not going to be a thing for X, Y, Z reason. None of these environments are destructible.

Starting point is 00:14:19 If you look at these environments in different angles, it starts starts to break down pretty bad ways like different things like that and i i think i'm my concern if we go away from like the the just the statement of replacing traditional rendering keeps getting me concerned about like the technology that we've already built for traditional rendering abandoning that and going forward i feel like is going to have pitfalls that we don't necessarily understand that i don't understand um in regards to the the games that we can necessarily make maybe i'm just completely wrong about this that sounds good to me hopefully that's right but i mean i think once we resolve a lot of the copyright and intellectual property ownership issues around AI generated assets um if anything I and I mean maybe I'm just coming at this from a lay person's perspective right like I don't do

Starting point is 00:15:14 game development but honestly it seems to me a lot easier yeah probably like if i easier yeah but is it is it as good of a space to be creative in that's the thing that i'm concerned about i guess it's it depends what kind of creativity you want like uh you know i think we've we've talked before about like if i if i was to you know invest in making a game you know what kind of what kind of game would it be and honestly if if i was to if i was to spec out my dream game that I would make, it would be episodic, even though I know the business model is totally broken and doesn't work. It would be heavily, heavily story focused. Like I could see, okay, there were these like kind of trashy like fantasy novels

Starting point is 00:16:03 that I read when I was in like a teenager uh by this author terry brooks and it's all about this um this like fantasy world shanara um and i could i could honestly it's all just like adventuring all over this land and i could i could see a game like that where you instead of hiring game writers necessarily you hire writers writers like and just create this world that gradually opens up and with every episode creates more and more environments to for you to go and visit essentially an mmo but not you really gotta play baller's gate massively multiplayer oh i know i know 100%. You're really nicely defining Baldur's Gate 3. Well, that's great.

Starting point is 00:16:50 One difference, though, is that I wouldn't intend anything to be high fidelity. So from my point of view, I had almost zero interest. Like, I was thinking, like, RPG maker level of of of graphical fidelity like it doesn't matter to me. Yeah but if I could If I could just You know draw a stick figure and then say okay. Yeah You know that now and now it just makes something cool so you're talking about basically lowering barrier of entry yes don't have to be as much of a a coder don't have to be as much of a

Starting point is 00:17:32 designer or reallocating resources because i think that's something that we've mostly agreed upon for a long time that a lot of the time the the the things that games get wrong is they'll have these really cool technical details or they'll be absolutely beautiful. But it's not actually fun. But it's not fun, it's not engaging. The triple A curse. Or the story sucks and you just,

Starting point is 00:17:57 you know, your sidekick dies and you're like, so? You were just a three-dimensional array of pixels. Or even worse than that, you're like, oh, thank a three-dimensional or worse than that you're like oh thank goodness now they're not gonna bug me yeah thank thank gravy I don't have to do another shot escort quest yeah exactly so I mean I don't know we've got people in chat saying I want graphical fidelity or I'm not interested yeah but you can get you can get that yeah yeah that's the thing i mean no part of what he's saying is that you wouldn't get that what he's saying is that when he's making it he doesn't have to worry about that he can he can

Starting point is 00:18:36 draw stick figures he can do whatever and then it's going to turn that into something more um but again you know there's all this intellectual property stuff to to figure out oh yeah definitely i i don't know when or how or if that's going to be resolved i suspect it will be but yeah when how or if is is pretty questionable um it's an interesting thing because it's, it's cool that more people, the more things are more accessible with it, but then it's also not cool, uh,

Starting point is 00:19:12 taking people's jobs away. And also, you know, it's real good at getting something that's going to be acceptable to a decent amount of people, but it's not real good at making masterpieces. No's fair that's totally fair like i i there's there's this old story of where is it austria is that where beethoven's from austria i can't remember wherever he's from there's if i remember correctly it's a it's a this could just be not even a true

Starting point is 00:19:42 story so great watch it here comes fake fake story time totally might be totally might i'm really glad i heard this like forever ago it might have even been a different uh composer yeah i don't know okay so you don't know who you don't know where i don't know you don't know exactly when you have no idea if it's true why don't we just say luke's about to make up a story yeah yeah yeah okay tell us a story um but it was basically every every school in that country had a grand piano yeah because they're like you never know when the next version in luke's fictional country okay yes carry on every every school had a grand piano because they were they wanted the opportunity for if

Starting point is 00:20:26 another person like this came around mm-hmm that they would be able to realize it okay cool that's a really neat idea yeah there was a massive Xbox leak that revealed plans for consoles controllers games and dreams of acquisitions this week. And the amount of clickbait that I saw around this has been absolutely colossal. Like, I clicked on this one article that was like, Microsoft plans to acquire Nintendo. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:20:59 And as I'm reading through the article, I'm sitting here going, No. That's not what happened at all. Like, I clicked it because I went, through the article i'm sitting here going no that's not what happened at all i like i i i i clicked it because i went well surely they couldn't be stupid enough to think that like the the government of japan and nintendo itself would what for for money like sell out to microsoft like that it's it's not even it's not even conceivable and I was like sure surely they couldn't have gotten too far into these talks no there were there were no talks

Starting point is 00:21:29 there was no there was no Microsoft Nintendo acquisition that all uh who who said it was it was it Phil Spencer I don't remember but someone basically said that would be a career defining moment or something like that well yeah it would that would be a career-defining moment or something like that. Well, yeah, it would. That would be an industry-defining moment if Nintendo has been around for, like, what, 150 years or whatever it is. Hey, Linus. What? Wouldn't it be sick if we acquired Mr. Beast?

Starting point is 00:21:57 Yeah, yeah. News, news, news, news, news. Here comes the Dexerto article. You know, Linus almost acquired Mr. Beast. Almost. Beast Industries. Yeah, exactly. Almost happened.

Starting point is 00:22:08 Feastables, more like tech-tippables. That's our new chocolate bar, the Quick Bits. That's not bad. Quick Bits for like a bagged snack? We wanted to do a cereal at one point. That'd be pretty good. I know, it's a really good name for a cereal. Oh.

Starting point is 00:22:27 Yeah. Dang. We also have Linus cat tips. Quick bites and quick bits. In the production queue. Do you know what Linus cat tips are? No. Okay.

Starting point is 00:22:42 So I want to make like a cat teaser. Oh, a cat toy. And then it would have interchangeable tips and they'd be doesn't doesn't matter yeah i'm really sorry anyway a microsoft employee appears to have mistakenly uploaded a large trove of confidential documents both redacted and unredacted to a legal court website used in the trial between the FTC and Microsoft. This has resulted in what is possibly the largest leak of Xbox-related information to date, most of it from 2020 and onward.

Starting point is 00:23:15 On the hardware side, Project Brooklyn was a diskless Xbox Series X refresh, and Project Elwood, an equivalent Series S console that were scheduled to launch in fall 2024. I shouldn't say was. I mean, maybe. Anything leaked could be, could not be. You never know. Things can be developed really quickly sometimes, and projects that seem like they're just about across the line can get axed so who knows a next gen hybrid cloud console that uses both local and cloud processing is scheduled allegedly for 2028 that is actually farther out than i expected really yeah i i mean looking at how hard they were pushing uh looking at how hard they were pushing the cloud with xbox series x i thought

Starting point is 00:24:05 it sounded like they're going to do this with series x yeah sebaile an elite style controller with haptics that double as speakers a lift to wake feature and direct to cloud connectivity similar to stadia man this is cool uh one document showed a mock-up of a first-party Xbox handheld, but handheld was listed as not in scope for first-party on what can only be described as a funding pyramid. What? Huh? Interesting. Not in scope for first-party.

Starting point is 00:24:40 So what, they would allow an ecosystem of Xbox handhelds? Like kind of Logitech g cloud kind of thing or maybe that oh that'd be that would be super cool and what what else what else we got here uh oh however the keystone cloud console is in the funded section despite being canceled last year before this document was generated okay so take all of these leaks with a grain of salt but definitely cool stuff then on the gaming side bethesda parent company xenomax had a planning document listing several upcoming games yeah including a doom game called year zero dishonored three a ghostwire tokyo sequel an indiana jones game that what the indiana jones game is that what the sigh was for yeah

Starting point is 00:25:28 that'll either be amazing or more likely kind of terribly trash yeah yeah probably terrible i mean you never know i mean i didn't have a lot of hope for the 2016 tomb raider reboot yeah that was actually very good it ended up being excellent it's it's one of the few games in the like at that time in my life when i was very busy that i actually played all the way through it was very good a lot a lot of movie tie-in games are not good um did you just call tomb raider a movie tie-in game is it not i didn't play the ones when we were really young. Was there no, like, super old school Tomb Raider movie? I know the newer Tomb Raider movie was not good, but I thought those were, like, remakes of some super old thing.

Starting point is 00:26:13 I'm going to quietly ask you to leave. I don't know. Honestly, I just don't care. But I was going to say Spider-Man. My actual point wasn't Tomb Raider. It was Spider-Man. It came out and was actually surprisingly good. I thought that's

Starting point is 00:26:26 adapted from a movie Yeah, it is actually Obviously originally there's the comic books, but I'm pretty sure the game is based on the movie is it not yeah, so nice try bucko Moving on from not sort of it's specifically pulled from the movie people are so mad on from not sort of it's specifically pulled from the movie people are so mad i'm totally twisting what he's saying to make it so much worse than it and they just dove right with you i'm just glad they're mad at you for a change yeah yeah that's the i'll take that i'll take that too to be honest um moving on from there there's remasters of oblivion and fallout 3. uh which There's remasters of Oblivion and Fallout 3 Uh, which

Starting point is 00:27:03 The remaster Yeah, the Oblivion Get over it The Oblivion movie The Oblivion movie, yeah Yeah, it's based on No, Oblivion's a comic book It's based on the Elder Scrolls

Starting point is 00:27:17 Yeah, graphic novel series It's called the Elder Scrolls It's from a comic It's from a scroll Yeah A lot of them They're're old! They're elder! Multiple scrolls! Come on! Buried in a vault!

Starting point is 00:27:30 The move to remaster Oblivion I honestly think is really weird. Really? Why? Because of Sky Oblivion. And I honestly bet you at this point, Sky Oblivion will be better than the Oblivion remaster. So then they just issue a cease and desist? So that they can sell Oblivion remaster. So then they just issue a cease and desist so that they can sell Oblivion remastered? I think that would be honestly hard for them to do because it's a mod of Skyrim. Given how precarious their relationship

Starting point is 00:27:59 with the modding community seems to be. I think that would kill it. Yeah. Because this has been such an incredibly long-running project from people that are seen as very good members of community you know i don't know i don't know i think that would be really bad but to me like the especially because skyblivion is the furthest along one because there's uh what is the what is the morrowind called morrowind one called elijah's in the chat

Starting point is 00:28:28 boomer scrolls wow cool stop um yeah skywind is the is the morrowind version of that project which as far as my understanding goes is not anywhere near as far along as the um probably more challenging oh i'm sure yeah um business stuff from executive emails by at least 2020 microsoft apparently had write-ups outlining the potential value of acquiring nintendo and valve though they apparently saw no means to do so uh yeah they were likewise interested in purchasing the u.S. branch of TikTok and Warner Brothers Interactive. Phil Spencer said acquiring Nintendo would be a career moment. Okay, so it was Phil Spencer. There's confirmation that Microsoft is primarily interested in Activision Blizzard for King, the makers of Candy Crush.

Starting point is 00:29:17 How sad is that? I mean, I don't know. I don't know what's worse. I mean, I don't know what's worse. The fact that Activision Blizzard has fallen so far that we don't care about IPs like Diablo or Warcraft compared to Candy Crush, or the fact that gaming has, or at least the money made in gaming

Starting point is 00:29:43 has shifted so heavily to mobile like whale whale harpooning games like candy crush um that i think that's the worst part that that those that that traditional model is not really interesting at an executive you know return for shareholders you know return for shareholders level anymore that's wow yeah honestly the the heights that blizzard fell from and the heights that activision fell from are both like incredible both of those studios were just like top of the freaking world and have totally fallen off so that's a big part of it um i think the the games that they've been releasing are are pathetic shadows of what they used to so i don't know um but also yeah people eat into that model so like it's i don't even know what you say at this point because gamers are going to buy stuff. It just happens.

Starting point is 00:30:45 In one exchange, Activision execs described the Nintendo Switch 2 as closer in power to last gen PS4 and Xbox One, which makes a lot of sense. Have you seen the recent rumors that the Switch 2 will be as powerful as a PS5 or an Xbox Series X? No. What are you talking about? That's not how that works. If it is a mobile device,

Starting point is 00:31:10 which as far as I can tell, most people seem to be indicating that it will be a Switch 2, a direct sequel, kind of like the Super Nintendo or the Wii U, right? What could possibly make you think it will have anywhere near in the same article i'm reading

Starting point is 00:31:28 i'm reading people who are saying it will be based on nvidia's ampere architecture and it will be a mobile device and it will have the same performance as a playstation what are you talking about oh my god conrad just said it's going to be called the Switch U just to make it extra confusing. That would be amazing. I would love that. I should just call it Switch Off at that point because no one's going to tune into that.

Starting point is 00:31:54 Forget it. Got him. I feel like this is the same conversation that we had back when Tesla announced that every one of their cars that they were shipping would be capable of full autonomous driving and i'm sitting here going look i don't know everything about everything certainly not i there's lots of things i don't know or don't understand the intricacies of but one of the things that i do know is that at that time microprocessor technology even if even if tesla was five years

Starting point is 00:32:28 ahead of the competition there was no there was no roadmap to the kind of the kind of ai inferencing that we were going to need for full self-drive like because remember self-driving full autonomous operation is not 99 of the time or 99.9 of the time think about it if it was 99 accurate in a hundred hours you would spend one hour doing the wrong thing on the road that is not okay that's horrible 99.9 of the time if it was that good every thousand hours you could be spending an hour driving down the wrong side of the road or on the sidewalk or a more minor error there are, yeah, there are a little bit of, there are some issues with interpreting it that way. But it's also not that wrong. Yes, but I would say if you evaluate it, so okay, you're right.

Starting point is 00:33:35 And based on how that thing is laid out, there's no way to know how that should be interpreted because you don't know the severity of these errors. Yes. Know how that should be interpreted because you don't know the severity of these errors. Yes, but looking at like People driving down the road and what percentage of the time are they're doing the wrong thing? By looking somewhere incorrectly or just absentmindedly like not really seeing what's in front of them stuff like that It's probably extremely high But they're probably also not driving down the wrong side of the road like you're giving for an example and there's no way to not driving down the wrong side of the road like you're giving for an example and there's no way to differentiate those levels of errors that's true that's true that we have and and and we we don't know for sure if like you said humans are making are spending you know yeah one one out of

Starting point is 00:34:16 every hundred or one out of every thousand hours like completely doing the wrong thing i you know people run red lights it happens people fall asleep at the wheel. Yep, 100%. I think what we can all agree on is that Meg's 1991 says in the float plane chat, Luke thinks Mario Bros. is based on a movie. I didn't know how... I just don't know how you got it so wrong, Luke. It's Tomb Raider. Who cares? Why does anyone care this much? Horny 13 year olds care.

Starting point is 00:34:49 I was like- You don't like pyramids Luke? When did the first Tomb Raider game come out? There's Tomb Raider I just wanna- Raider game release What was I like five or something when it come out 200 gold is 1998

Starting point is 00:35:09 alright so I was 1996 in October so I was five could have been a movie I don't know why do I care I don't know maybe you were a precocious youngster and already a pyramid enthusiast. I might have been at that point. I'm not sure. Well, you either recently were or you were going to be one soon, you know?

Starting point is 00:35:42 It is interesting that there's a bit of a gap there yeah yeah yeah so we ended up um talking about nursing luke i'm sure nobody had that on their bingo this is pretty interesting someone in floatplane chat linked me um uh one of the leaked versions oh this isn't working anymore since we restarted uh stream deck's broken can't show you my laptop but it's uh one of the leaked documents um it says gaming there's a picture of master chief because of course there is uh then it says gaming devices oh there we go yeah gaming devices passed to 2030 console business is the foundation damn it microsoft uh consoles are considered a key health meter for the brand and

Starting point is 00:36:25 will continue to drive majority of revenue and subscribers into 2030 um new endpoints are the i feel very unimportant right now yeah me too this is the interesting part though it's like they kind of shift immediately after saying that so they say consoles of the foundation this is the health meter all that kind of stuff and then they they say, like, to get to 100 million members, though, unlocking new off-console endpoints and improving the experience will substantially grow subscribers over the next eight years. Okay, so which one is it, Microsoft? Exactly.

Starting point is 00:36:55 That's an interesting point. That's a bad presentation. To be fair, I think they're saying it's the foundation, this is our majority, that type of stuff, but we need to... Right. So they're saying that to build a pyramid, they have to have a lot of consoles yeah and then they have to have a sharp point of end points yeah and then they turn it on the side yeah and they have two of them controller controller becomes the hero is point number three. The new Xbox controller is the only thing you'll need to play on every new device.

Starting point is 00:37:27 This new low barrier of entry will fuel subscriber growth. So subscriber growth. So they're just talking about like Game Pass. Yeah, that's it. That's all they care about. That's it. Game Pass, baby. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:37:41 Personalization and customization. Personalization and customization continue as a hardware strategic advantage and a key profit driver and customer delighter never heard that word before but sounds good yeah i've heard like delighting customers being a delighter a customer delay yeah i don't know if i've heard of a customer delayer before but i also don't spend a ton of time in gentlemen's clubs so yeah yeah or pyramids um sustainability and accessibility continued progress towards uh reduction of carbon tax impact re-energizing our journey of inclusion personalization it's interesting to me that they would think that personalization is a strength of xbox they do um no it doesn't you got to send us back. There we go. They do push their custom controllers a lot.

Starting point is 00:38:27 Yeah, but why not the- And honestly, I think a lot of people buy them. Why not the console, though? Customization of the console itself. Yeah, like look at how Sony's doing with the PlayStation 5 dark plates or whatever their first party one is called, the dbrand thing. Like I- dbrand thing like i um avon fox says tomb raider was a pyramid scheme yeah that's how they made money it kind of was it was kind of what yeah yeah yeah um yeah that's interesting i don't really

Starting point is 00:39:01 you know shop for xbox as much i don't even think they've done much in the way of themed Xboxes this time around like we have this all black we have this super cool uh like gears Xbox One X that was sick or was it a One S I don't remember but yeah I have one of those actually yeah let's just did you steal it from work no oh okay how'd you get why the hell do you have an Xbox long story I turned it on one time. I'm interested in this story. It's still under my TV, though. I would like to hear the story. I wanted the controller.

Starting point is 00:39:33 So we found his weakness. We found the thing that will make Luke spend money. No, no, no. I didn't buy it. Oh, my God. Carry on. I wanted the controller. So I had the red...

Starting point is 00:39:44 I should have known better gears controller yeah that i probably stole from work um yeah that definitely because i think it disappeared i've had it for like years it was before there was a lounge so i don't know where i got it from i might have got it from willow actually i'm not sure nice backtrack it's possible good job it's technically possible but i had the red gears controller and i wanted to play uh nhl with my brother because they won't release nhl on pc since like what was it like 96 or something like no no it was in the 2000s like 2005 or 2006 oh maybe it's 2006 yeah um but yeah they haven't released nhl on pc in forever so my brother and

Starting point is 00:40:22 i wanted to play on Xbox. And I didn't really want to buy an Xbox, but I had plans of how we could play an NHL game on the TV. Don't worry about it. Through cloud streaming. Sure. But anyways, I wanted more Xbox controllers. And I couldn't find just getting just the Gears controller. Because that's all I wanted.

Starting point is 00:40:48 I didn't actually want the Xbox. So I reached out to a contact and was like, can I buy just the controller? And then they sent me the whole thing. I didn't know they were going to do it. So you leveraged your contacts here. I did not meet this person through work He knows what he did Okay, so you know it's turned on once well no I've had it for like four years or something.

Starting point is 00:41:27 Yeah, they got a really great value out of that. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Hey, I mean, the good news is it can never, you know, Red Ring of Death if you never turn it on. Okay, because I bought... I know that's not an issue with the series. You'll even remember...

Starting point is 00:41:38 Or Xbox One S or whatever. Remember I got that TV? Yeah. The TV was more or less also so that i could like have people over oh right and then that was like that was a week before coven happened yeah how'd that go for you no i i'm not even the one that uses the tv anymore it's like exclusively my girlfriend i don't ever use it i think you had a i think you had an inkling that that was going to happen at the time though i did yeah because you were like yeah i don't care about the tv but this is the good one right

Starting point is 00:42:08 i'm like yeah you're like okay yeah that's exactly how it happened yeah okay that makes sense i did zero research i called linus like on the way to the store and was like tell me what to do hey it's a good tv it's great yeah it worked it worked quite well. I was, yeah. You bought it a good time because basically... There was some huge sale. You've got 4K 120 Hertz. You've got HDR support. You've got variable refresh rate with like G-Sync compatibility or whatever. So you've got basically everything you need. And all that's happened since then is they've gotten a little bit brighter, basically.

Starting point is 00:42:44 More color gamut more brighter they are better the newer ones are better but if you are using them anytime other than during the day with sunlight coming in i i the newer ones are better but man are you ever having a lot of the experience with i think it's what like a c2 or something that you have c1 i don't remember i don't remember it you'd honestly probably remember better than me man it might not even be no it must, like a C2 or something that you have? C1? I don't remember. I don't remember. You'd honestly probably remember better than me. Oh, man. It might not even be. No, it must be like a C10.

Starting point is 00:43:08 Oh, that sounds more correct. It's probably a C10. That sounds more correct. Yeah, because they started over. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah. So there's like, there's, so C8 and 9 and 10 or whatever.

Starting point is 00:43:19 I can't remember if there was a C in the 8th generation. Luke thinks Wancho is based off Wancho Bingo. Sorry. Oh, man. Okay. Anywho, Dan, we don't know what to do because you don't have the cue cards up. Yeah, I lost

Starting point is 00:43:39 everything. Oh, hey, my buttons work now. I fixed the buttons. I just fixed the buttons. It's flustered Dan. What do we do? Merge messages now? I don't know. This one says do merge messages. Okay. He still hasn't

Starting point is 00:43:56 managed to put it up there. He hit the microphone. There's a microphone. Why are you hurting our viewers? And yourself. I deserve it. No. No. This hasn't happened in so long. I deserve it. No. No. This hasn't happened in so long I don't know what I'm doing anymore. I swear this never happens to me.

Starting point is 00:44:11 Oh, interesting. Sorry. Hold on. Hold on. There's interesting slides in this deck. Cloud First Gamers is the blue. PC First Gamers is the light green. And Console First and Multi-Device Gamers are the dark green and console first and multi-device gamers are we that small well okay i don't think multi-device is yeah that's stupid you can't

Starting point is 00:44:35 just lump multi-device in with console because there's plenty of pc first gamers that are multi-device oh man yeah that's pretty dumb that feels like someone on the console team trying to inflate trying to juice it yeah trying to juice the numbers yeah yeah i don't know that's it yeah that's strong disagree wow that thing is it looks like a router it's just like a circular circular. One of those old stupid D-Link head routers that looked like that, I think, back in the day. Updated technologies. Wow, this is...

Starting point is 00:45:11 This leak is crazy. It actually is. Holy crap. Giving our fans more to love. This is clearly presentations that real time was spent on and are very real wow die shrink for improved efficiency undisputed yeah i think there are a fair number of people that would dispute

Starting point is 00:45:38 the series s in general and it's um it's positive contributions to to console gaming but sure sure yeah all right let's explain what merch messages are and do a couple we don't do twitch bits or whatever the thing on super chats man i sleep deprived you know there's a there's different kinds of sleep deprived sometimes i get kind of like silly. And then other times I get, you know, today I'm just stupid. Like I actually, I feel like this is what it must be like to not be very smart. Like I start a thought and I just, I don't know how to explain this. You say something, I'm like, I don't know how to explain this. You say something, I'm like, I don't understand. You can apparently make rough equations, or sorry, rough comparisons between sleep deprivation and being drunk.

Starting point is 00:46:32 Yeah. Being awake for at least 18 hours is the same as someone having a blood alcohol content level of 0.05%. Being awake for 24 hours is equal to having a blood alcohol content of 0.1%. Sick. Well, see, I'm not sleep deprived in that way. It's more cumulative. Yeah, I think that's a harder one to measure, but I'm sure it has similar effects. I've had a really big project on the go lately.

Starting point is 00:47:02 We finally, finally have the one you land center gaming systems up you know what we can talk we can talk about a little bit later on the show first let's explain what merch messages uh so we don't do those normal kinds of messages to shows because we think they're kind of a bad value for the viewer what if we don't see them or what if we see them and frankly they're not very you know relevant and we don't respond to them then you basically got nothing you got pixels on a screen um and and that's that's a shame but the way that we do it hey you get your pixels on the screen sup alexander g uh our producer dan will go through some of the merch messages and either reply to them himself like to alexander g

Starting point is 00:47:42 or send them to us to address later on the show, or none of that happens, and hey, you just get your order in the mail, and you get like a sick t-shirt or a hoodie or a water bottle or a screwdriver or whatever the case may be. So you just got to go to the merch message box in the cart, and whenever we're live, fill out the merch messages field, and then go ahead and place your order, and it gets dumped into the queue for producer dan uh dan do you have a couple of uh a couple of merch

Starting point is 00:48:10 messages for us i do actually first one here hey lld given the amount of times you talk about tech related lawsuits or legislation have you considered adding legal experts to the team to review them so we know exactly how it's affecting us i think for the most part unless you are an enormous company you you generally seek legal advice on a consultancy basis like i mean even i'm thinking like even you know the cnn's and you know fox news's of the world um they okay hold on hold on just a second they obviously have internal legal legal counsel oh but they'll also have but they but when they're but for the content they bring in legal contributors who my understanding is a lot of the time are not necessarily paid they're paid in exposure on the network is is my understanding and to be clear i'm not'm not suggesting, this is not a call for lawyers to consult for me for free.

Starting point is 00:49:07 It's just what I'm saying is that I don't necessarily know that media organizations will just have a lawyer on staff. Because the thing about law is it's not just, you don't just hire a lawyer. It's quite specialized. It's very specialized. So if we were going to talk about copyright, or if we were going to talk about you know copyright or if we

Starting point is 00:49:26 were going to talk about um for example uh patent uh patent law or if we were going to talk about um wouldn't even be surprised if financial crimes you know a cnn style legal team would almost be a legal team that uh like works through contractors or like finds the right no yeah knows who to know and who to who to bring in for you know a relevant take on whatever the the topic du jour is yeah i could totally see that yeah um that tavis says i have an ex-prosecutor as my company's legal counsel sometimes they can pivot i mean that's true but what if they what if they don't or what if they make a mistake would i be better off just you know bringing in someone to consult for us on uh you know whenever needed i yeah i i don't know it's not something that it's not something that's on our radar right now i think right now we're

Starting point is 00:50:18 just really focused on making really great content got a lot of really exciting stuff lined up uh oh man there's something i really want to tell you guys about but i guess i can't really do it yet soon soon i will tell you guys soon but i'm very excited about it all right dan what else you got for us sure last one here dear dan linus and luke and wan crew my 22 year old autistic brother dropped 120 on mario kart tour last week. Do you have any tips on how I can help him not be susceptible to this kind of thing? Oh, man. This is a tough one.

Starting point is 00:50:55 It's funny because I'm almost having like a deja vu moment because somebody asked me something recently that was like, how do I prevent this like grown ass person yeah that's that's the problem from doing something yeah and i was like well there you can't yeah like from from like like legally morally like all of these ease um they are an independent person who can make... I think there's some layers here. Their own decisions.

Starting point is 00:51:30 Did they want to do that? Is this like an impulse control problem? After the fact, they're like, I wish I didn't do this, that type of stuff. Then maybe there's some opportunities to step in. Is it their money? Yeah, I mean... If it's not their money you remove the card from the account or if it is their money um but they're going to be reliant on you now

Starting point is 00:51:52 to replace that that's things they would have spent that's where that's where things can get very complicated with family obviously we don't know much about the dynamic here but like i would i would hazard okay okay, can, can your brother afford it is another question that I would be asking. So, you know, if it, if it is, if it is his money and he can afford it, then, but then, you know, I, I don't know, right? Because I would want to intervene. So in spite of everything we just said, like I would, I would want to intervene. So in spite of everything we just said, like I would want to do something if I saw one of my siblings throwing away money at different colored pixels.

Starting point is 00:52:34 That kind of money. It's in a week. Oh yeah, no, I understand. And my assumption... Oh, go ahead. My understanding here is not anywhere near um good enough but i i i believe people on the spectrum can be very fixated on certain things sure yeah but maybe they find an an very very high amount of enjoyment from this

Starting point is 00:53:03 and they have the money. If all those things line up, then whatever. It's an adult making adult decisions. It is what it is. But like you were saying, does this now make them reliant on someone else's money? Sure. Is this not their money?

Starting point is 00:53:21 Is this all these other different types of things? And did they want that to be the reality at all? Like this might be a situation where they came to this person who sent in the merch message and like potentially asked them for help we don't know how regular of an occurrence this is that too maybe this is something that where this is not the first time that they've spent you know a hundred plus dollars on uh you know on a mobile game essentially right i mean i i personally um i i find that adding steps to things is like really beneficial to make you not do it um like one of the one of a money spending hack that i i know a few people that have done um is they'll they'll um stop carrying certain cards yeah and just carry cash i took the Twitter app off my phone.

Starting point is 00:54:06 Yeah. I still have Twitter. Yeah. I can access it on a desktop. You could install it again. Or you can access it on a desktop. Yeah. If I really want to look at something, I can open the page in a browser.

Starting point is 00:54:16 At least I could until they made that more difficult. But you add these barriers. So maybe just don't let the mobile device remember your card. But you add these barriers. So maybe just don't let the mobile device remember your card. Or if it has to remember your card, just remove the card after the transaction. Yeah. Nighttime Astronaut says it's predatory from the company.

Starting point is 00:54:37 I'm a disability advocate and I'm neuro spicy. We are targeted by ads purposefully. Yeah, that's... I'm sure that's a thing. That's nasty. I'm also totally convinced that's a thing that's nasty i'm also totally convinced that's the thing yeah oh i mean there's no believe there's no question in my mind that that's the thing it's just it doesn't change that from a legal standpoint this is a grown adult and you can't you you can't tie someone down and go like no no more Mario Kart tour

Starting point is 00:55:08 Yeah But yeah, I mean other other than just other than just here's a yeah, here's a weird potential idea sure try to get them hooked on a Different Mario Kart that doesn't have micro transactions, but that's the problem is it's not as hooking doesn't have microtransactions but that's the problem is it's not as hooking the the the the the gacha mechanisms are not built into those games yeah but they're still fun i know but it's give it a mark or eight it's great game it's different yeah no it's it's different it's not the same thing show some enjoyment play it play it with them have fun i don't know yeah there is there that's a good point there isn't a substitute for

Starting point is 00:55:46 spending time together yeah so like maybe maybe i don't know this is this is possibly not fair and i'm volunteering this person's time but um that's probably the approach that i would try to if i if i saw that someone that i knew and cared about was having a toxic relationship with something I would try to help them go in a different direction but not make them but just make it voluntary like hey you clearly really like Mario Kart you're playing this version of it that has gotcha microtransactions that sucks I'm down to play Mario Kart 8 with you do you want to go play that let's get all the unlocks in the game because you can unlock all these different kite things and wheels and all this kind of stuff. Let's focus on doing that. Let's do it together.

Starting point is 00:56:29 And then you go play that together. And then they get hooked on that game. And it's potentially a little bit better. I don't know. Just an idea. It's unfortunate. But, yeah. I don't know.

Starting point is 00:56:42 I don't have a way to solve this. I mean, I see people kind of talking through different possibilities in the chat. And, you know, you've got the, you know, government regulation is going to be one that's always going to be a controversial topic in these things, right? Because you've got advocates on the one side saying, we need regulation. We need regulation because these companies are just going to exploit vulnerable people and then you've got people on the other side going look we can't regulate ourselves into a nanny state if if a grown adult wants to buy a product or service why shouldn't they be allowed to buy a product or service and i think there's compelling arguments both ways i don't think this is a simple black and white issue um and i i'm reminded of the uh news, I think this was also this week, it was either this week or last week, that Neuralink is looking for human volunteers for early implants. grown adults hopefully you know of sound mind and body who are making the decision to be to to be guinea pigs for for their experimentation should this even be legal and it's like i guess i mean it's your body but i mean it's in some parts of the world isn't suicide technically illegal i don't i don't think there's a what does that what does that mean well i don't think

Starting point is 00:58:04 there's a punishment for it to the person who is dead obviously but it can affect things like for example your insurance I know that I don't know that it's the illegality that would affect that but you know if you kill yourself you don't get the insurance payout um yeah noodles it says in the

Starting point is 00:58:22 chat in the US suicide is illegal okay put you in jail yeah noodles it says in the chat in the US suicide is illegal huh it's like okay it was there I'll put you in jail yeah it's illegal in the UK too says night pause what does it mean so is it just an insurance thing cuz that yeah apparently it's illegal so the police can get involved without a warrant that's interesting uh Ian Ian Xmas says gambling needs to be monitored in can get involved without a warrant. That's interesting. Ian Exmus says, gambling needs to be monitored and controlled.

Starting point is 00:58:52 I mean, sure, but where's the line, right? And was it gambling? Look how long it took to regulate smoking, for example. What's the name of this game again? Mario Kart what? Mario Kart Tour. Tour, mobile game super got it oh people are saying it's illegal so that trying so attempting it can be punished like yeah okay what are you gonna accomplish with that it seems stupid i don't know man so you can be forced to get help.

Starting point is 00:59:27 You know, that's something. So what, are you going to throw them in jail for it? Like, what do you think that's going to do? Yeah, also if someone helps you, they can be charged with aiding and abetting. Okay, so this... I think I'm cool with that. Turns out there are some good reasons.

Starting point is 00:59:40 I'm sure there's... I don't know. That's a very nuanced topic. 100%. My transactions remain the game. Yeah, I'm not certain if the Mario Kart Tour, if the

Starting point is 00:59:56 Mario Kart transactions are just like buying a thing or buying a dice roll. Got it. I don't know what they are. Yeah, I'm not sure. Alright, do you want to give us one more merch message dan um yeah sure um let's see what i've got here hey lld what kind of actions would you have to take of any if a mr b-sized creator wanted to join floatplane uh i think if a mr b-sized creator wanted to join Floatplane? I think if a MrBeast-sized creator wanted to join, we'd probably have to beef up the infra just a little bit.

Starting point is 01:00:29 I would imagine they'd have some special requests in terms of tools they would want built for engagement with their audience. That's pretty common. Yeah, as long as they're not too onerous, like as long as there's something that we could sort of try to fast track or get on a roadmap where they're willing to be a little bit patient.

Starting point is 01:00:44 something that we could sort of try to fast track or get on a roadmap where they're willing to be a little bit patient um i i would think at this point not too much you know don't don't quote me on that right there's stuff that we would need to do but there's solutions that we can implement that could solve it like we'd be fine all right why don't we jump into our next topic luke you want to pick one sure give me a sec i was looking at tomorrow cart tour stuff um do we have the co-pilot thing yes oh sick we have it oh nice okay well should we do that should we use it i'm just trying to get it okay so you're still doing stuff okay well let's let's we do that? Should we use it? I'm just trying to get it to move up. Okay. So you're still doing stuff. Okay.

Starting point is 01:01:25 Well, let's maybe do that later. Oh, I see. Oh, cool. 1080? No, no. 1080 is fine. You keep poking with that. I'll talk through the topic.

Starting point is 01:01:38 On Thursday, Microsoft announced Microsoft Copilot in Windows, which you may have thought they already announced, but you may be thinking about GitHub Copilot, which was announced in 2021, Microsoft 365 Copilot, which was announced in March 2023, or Windows Copilot. Ever more different than, you know, anyways, that was announced in May 2023. Microsoft Copilot in Windows, rather, is a unification of the company's disparate chatbot-like services, rebranded with a new colorful logo and an actual release date. This Tuesday, September 26th, finally, a release date on any AI product is fantastic. The feature will roll out in Windows 11 in its early form, accessible through the Windows plus C key keyboard shortcut.

Starting point is 01:02:26 Okay, I'm not going to lie. I'm actually, like, very excited to try this right now. No, this is interesting. Dan has a laptop for us. Because we've had a lot of... Yeah, he's putting it on the floor. Why is he putting it on the floor? I don't want floor laptops.

Starting point is 01:02:36 It's not... I don't like floor chicken. Based on a movie, Dan. Yeah, yeah, floor laptop. Laptops are not based on movies. The movie. Come on. The movie, the movie the game

Starting point is 01:02:45 uh as microsoft revealed when announcing windows co-pilot co-pilot can pull data from a user's calendar email documents um so nothing from anyone who's using google for all of those things i guess anything microsoft app related to help you answer questions and perform tasks. It can also help you control your desktop itself. You can tell it to arrange windows, change system settings, launch specific Spotify playlists. No way. And much more. Okay, well, let's do stuff. Yeah, try to arrange some windows.

Starting point is 01:03:16 Pull open some stuff. I mean, there's no apps on here. The back of that laptop is very distracting. Yeah, I know, right? I don't know how to turn that off imagine having that in a class i mean i think that's sort of the point you just piss off the teacher just peacock super hard yeah just tape over it wow um i put a new button on your deck there when you want to switch into the uh the laptop oh sick okay where is it oh on his yeah

Starting point is 01:03:42 do you want one no no it's fine. Everybody can have a button. They're free. There you go. Here's two. Oh, oh. There you go. You're special. They're like ducks at the park.

Starting point is 01:03:53 Yeah. They're free. You can just take them home. Like domain names. Despite the unification, Microsoft's branding is still all over the place concerning commercial customers who can also consider using Bing Chat Enterprise and Microsoft 365 co-pilot the latter of which will be available for Enterprise customers November 1st I didn't know that Enterprise Microsoft 365 co-pilot is gonna be very interesting hopefully it's not trash we'll see openai also announced dolly 3 which the company says does a lot better than

Starting point is 01:04:25 other modern text image systems at not ignoring words in prompts it can also actually generate text in an image properly as seen here and then there's a little example that i'm going to jump to i just feel so empty inside which is amazing for people who have messed with these things in the past because the text was always just like garbly gook, no real letters, just kind of some weird shape patterns where the text is supposed to be. So having actual text is very, that's a pretty big step to be completely honest. That's pretty cool. Data Economy fed OpenAI's demo prompts into mid journey and

Starting point is 01:05:07 compared the outputs and it's pretty close apparently we're gonna check that out as well like this let's go to the beach and find the right hermit close-up photograph of a hermit crab nestled in wet sand with sea foam nearby and the details of its shell and texture of the sand accentuated. Yeah. I don't know if this is a hermit crab. I don't know what a hermit crab looks like, to be honest with you. Oh, okay. Yeah. Oh, that's from Dolly. And Midjourney's on the right. Huh. Okay. I don't know how many examples there are. Here we go. Dancer's Desire. That's a really long prompt.

Starting point is 01:05:50 But they actually do look pretty similar. One is just like facing us and the other one's facing away. Sheesh. Photo of a lychee-inspired I think that's how you say that? I don't know. Inspired spherical chair with a bumpy white exterior and plush interior set against a tropical wallpaper.

Starting point is 01:06:11 Huh. Quite similar. Man, every time I play around with this stuff or look at it, I am just kind of blown away. Ha ha, potatoes. We know a thing or two about generating potato images on DALI. We do. Anyways. Speaking of potato.

Starting point is 01:06:34 No, never mind. I'm not going to tease that. Oh, wow. Something potato related. That's all I can say. The DALI 3 is in research preview now and will be available to ChatGPT Plus and Enterprise customers in October and will, of course, be integrated into Bing and various Microsoft apps and services as well. Lastly, there were new Surface devices announced, all with very iterative upgrades. Business Insider and Windows Central say that this is part of the reason for formal Surface chief Panos Panay's sudden departure this week after 20 years at the company. different price points an rtx uh 40 50 or 40 60 intel neural processing unit and up to two terabytes of uh like dedicated storage and 64 gigs of ram starts at around 1999 i say around because they

Starting point is 01:07:35 don't specify what chip it is and there's two different gpu models so i don't know um surface laptop go 3 pretty much just internal upgrades same 12.4 inch screen, now has Intel 12th Gen, not 13th I guess, instead of 11th and starts at $799. Intel dual-core Pentium, I got there, in Go 3, replaced with quad-core Intel N200, marked for business. Do not have fun with it. It's illegal. That's right. Riley wrote that, right? Yeah. I assumed.

Starting point is 01:08:15 I don't even have the dock open right now, but I know. I don't technically know that. I just, I didn't put it in there. Oh, okay. That's one of them. Almost certainly Riley. And then last, but not least, potentially least. know that i i just i didn't put it in there okay yeah that's one of them almost certainly riley um and then last but not least potentially at least who knows uh surface hub 3 some minor upgrades over the hub 2s announced in march hub 3 mod uh module can be purchased and installed in existing

Starting point is 01:08:38 hub 2s devices okay should we just start doing co-pilot yeah i don't care about i've been waiting for you to do this this whole time. No, I'm ready. Okay. Tell me what to have it do. Do the Windows organizing. This is the last conversation we had. Well, no, but I want to do interesting stuff. Okay.

Starting point is 01:08:56 I think Windows organizing is very interesting. Open a browser for me. Hmm. No, thanks. Can you open a good browser? Oh! Oh! Let's see. Let's see. If it doesn't off of this, which... Please confirm the action in the dialogue box that has appeared

Starting point is 01:09:27 oh why would i have to click it that's weird sure you can confirm what say say open google chrome i don't know why you would ever want to do this instead of just typing in the start menu well because eventually you would want to interact with your voice not the keyboard yeah like I don't see I don't see a voice input right now yeah you can do your own

Starting point is 01:09:57 but yeah please confirm the action in the dialogue box that has appeared what are you talking about well it's already he clicked it though though. He said no thanks. And it, like, grayed out. Hello, buddy? Okay. Open File

Starting point is 01:10:15 Explorer. Chrome's not a good browser. Yeah, I just... The only one I see on there is Edge and Chrome. Yeah. Open File Explorer and show me where my uh program files are is this gonna do anything i mean yes yes obviously click it oh it graded out yeah i graded out it looks like it's duplicating i try well it's grayed out it wasn't grayed out originally all right the file explorer is now open

Starting point is 01:10:52 you can navigate to the program possible it's hallucinating already i don't want to navigate to that folder okay well i asked you to do it in its defense you're using it in the way that it's not it should work the way that you're using it in the way that it's not it should work the way that you're doing it but it's it's clearly not intended to be used that way i think you should start a new chat let it dump so that it's not going to lose and click the button properly no don't open no don't don't no no no no no don't close that fine you're you're a bad pilot fine it's just trying to co-pilot, but you're not being a good pilot. Open File Explorer.

Starting point is 01:11:27 Okay, so maybe I just need to click it way faster. Well, no, you're just typing something new before you click it. Yeah, it's working. Well, why does that second dial? Sure, you can confirm the action in the dialog box that has appeared. And you've already done it. I've already done it. What are you's weird. I've already done it. What are you talking about?

Starting point is 01:11:45 It has problems for sure. Okay. Show me where my music is. Oh. I mean, theoretically, if I have a folder called music, then it should... I mean, sure, I guess so. Oh my goodness. No. guess so oh my goodness no where's my music in file explorer wow this is pretty rudimentary to be honest with you yeah I think you need to start a whole new thread though because you're you're

Starting point is 01:12:16 already hallucinating uh no I don't okay fine how do I how do I thread? I don't even see the... Here, maybe up here. Okay, refresh. Alright. Okay, fine. Also, I will say here that this is not the release version. Well, we don't know that this is the release version or not. Are you talking to the stream right now, Dan? Oh, Dan, you might as well just talk to the stream if you're going to say that stuff, because we're just going to sit here in silence

Starting point is 01:12:50 while you talk to us anyway. Yeah. Hey, that's nice. Okay, Tomb Raider is both a movie and a game. Oh, my goodness. Okay, but that's just normal co-pilot stuff. It's more of a... Come on.

Starting point is 01:13:09 Try to get it to do cool things. Open some windows. Get it to organize it. Come on. I'd rather bother you. Oh my goodness. It's not more of one than the other. I'm just going to install this at home and use it myself.

Starting point is 01:13:22 Started as a video game series in 1996. Mmm, iconic protagonist Lara Croft. Again, when I was five. Do you think that's an excuse, Luke? Is this Enterprise if you only get four prompts on free like Bing, this would be useless well

Starting point is 01:13:49 Using it properly So like who knows if it's useless or not He's like being antagonistic to the to the poor little Yes, you are it's it's presenting an option yes or no. Click these buttons, and then you're not clicking it. Okay, fine. Well, they went away. They got grayed out. Because you typed something more. I shouldn't have to interact with my mouse for this. I agree, but clearly it's designed that way.

Starting point is 01:14:15 All right, fine. So use it properly. Then I'll just type in what you want. You can criticize that it shouldn't work that way. You can criticize that it should work off of your texted response But you can also use it properly at the same time come on. Mr. Reviewer man Tell me tell me what you want me to have it do I've wanted you to have it organized windows literally this whole time okay, fine open steam and

Starting point is 01:14:40 open Chrome and why would I want it to do that and Organize their windows. I mean what what am I? How could it possibly hope to do this for me? I don't know whoa Yes, oh whoa Yes, oh wow this is yeah, why would I need three prompts for this? I snapped a window for you. You didn't.

Starting point is 01:15:06 So it did it all at the same time. So the apps weren't actually open yet. Yeah, I'm the one making this bad, Luke. Thank you. That's very helpful. Well, no, at least we've learned something now. What did we learn? That it sucks?

Starting point is 01:15:19 We already learned that. Well, we learned that when you click things, it actually does stuff. So that's pretty cool. You didn't organize the windows This is not how you interact with these things. Why not? Because it's just needlessly antagonistic. Oh Well, it worked smart guy. I'm sorry for the confusion. I can't physically It also says it did it for you and then I click yes, and it doesn't do it.

Starting point is 01:15:46 I snapped a window for you. You can snap others beside it. Oh, Steam's open now. Okay. Can I close Steam without it appearing in my taskbar? Oh. I don't know. Can it do that for me? Can it close it to the system tray i don't know if i'm not signed in so i don't know if it'll behave a little bit

Starting point is 01:16:13 differently here how to close steam without okay so it just searches for it okay what are fundamental windows things that it could do it okay so let's jump up to what it talks about okay it can help you control your desktop itself you can tell it to arrange windows change system settings and launch specific Spotify playlists and much more can I find the original thing where it lists these features? Maybe I can find the more. With over 150 new features. I could see this being super, super...

Starting point is 01:16:59 Okay, here we go. This is what I've been trying to get to. I'm sorry for the misunderstanding, but as an AI, I don't have the ability to directly interact with your computer's interface. I can provide instructions and guidance, but I can't perform actions on your computer. How did Steam just log in? That's not true, though, because it did perform actions on your computer.

Starting point is 01:17:20 Okay. How did Steam just log in? What just happened? Huh. All I had was a login screen. Someone scanned the QR code. Someone scanned the QR code. Somebody logged in. That's actually pretty funny. You need to make sure you fully close Steam because they could remote in. Right.

Starting point is 01:17:48 That's pretty funny though. That is excellent. Don't ever do that again, but that's hilarious. Anyway. Oh my god. Shouldn't laugh at that. Bad. No. Something. I have new things to write down that we need to protect against. Anyway, but I can't perform actions on your computer.

Starting point is 01:18:12 You'll need to follow the steps I provided to remove the chat icon from your taskbar. Let me know if you need further assistance. super, super useful for people who don't want to dig into the three different control panels that Windows has now to figure out how to change your audio device from one to the other. This is just clippy. Try to get it to change power modes. Sure.

Starting point is 01:18:39 Or sleep settings. Or what happens when you close the lid. Can you set my computer to sleep after five minutes? Yeah, I think that's basically just going to be Clippy with ChatGPT. Oh, it had to search for that. Yeah, like why do you have to search for that? Sorry, I can't do this can you

Starting point is 01:19:05 can you start a new chat can you clear this chat and then try that again i can i i don't think it's going to make a difference so luke i don't think it can actually interact with the system basically at all like that's why it needs that manual prompt every time it allegedly does something for you like open a window the notes in our doc i'm trying to find this in the official thing but the notes in our doc say it can pull data from a user's calendar email documents anything Microsoft app related to help you answer perform tasks it says it can help arrange windows change system settings and launch specific playlists did it just do this did it just do this okay so it opened it for you but you have to be the one that flips the switch yeah but it didn't

Starting point is 01:19:51 open the right thing look at this please disable wi-fi sure would you like me to turn off bluetooth for you okay then it goes i open the devices page and settings. Well, which one is it? Are you supposed to do it for me? Are you supposed to open this window? Also, I don't have the capability to disable Wi-Fi. You can do this by going to the network settings on your device. Where?

Starting point is 01:20:16 Suppose I'm a novice user. I don't know where this is. Why did you give me three different answers? Want me to do it for you? Here, do it yourself. I can't do that. I don't know, man. I, um...

Starting point is 01:20:30 That seems pretty bad. This seems... That seems pretty basic. Yeah. I want to turn off my Wi-Fi. Do we have anything, um... Here, does this thing have, like, McAfee on it or something? Is this preloaded with any, like, junkware?

Starting point is 01:20:44 Oh, you know what? I bet it has, like, Candy Crush oree on it or something? Is this preloaded with any junkware? Oh, you know what? I bet it has Candy Crush or whatever on it. What's the junkware that comes on Windows devices? Didn't it used to come with Candy Crush? Check out Paint. Paint? Yeah, open Paint.

Starting point is 01:20:58 Isn't there new paint that has transparency now? That's kind of big news. Why are we not talking about that on Mindshow? I forgot about it. There's a lot of cool things in new paint is this new paint i don't know i don't think so i mean so i had i had some concerns about us trying this ahead of time why this is fun i'm having a good time yeah okay i drew um it looks a map. It looks great. You start here. Now you got to use the fill tool to fill in some of those things, and then it becomes modern art.

Starting point is 01:21:33 Okay, and then you end up here. So you start at the house, and then you end at work. Wait, what is this? Got them. It's a truck. Oh heck yeah it has a little like that's a little cloud coming out the back and everything and here's hold on hold on oh fine details fine details here's you oh nice nice yeah anywho sick um how did you get if the truck is your method of transportation though how did you get to it oh i don't know what if that just shows the path that

Starting point is 01:22:26 you've taken so far can you save the drawing i made in mspaint can you do basically anything so here's here's my problem yeah with this is this is supposed to be a windows update um oops and like i'm going to jump onto my screen really quick okay uh new windows 11 update delivers over 150 new features including bringing the power of copilot to the pc copilot in windows in preview paint photos snipping tool clip champamp notepad new outlook for Windows modernize file explorer all this other type of stuff we clearly don't have all these things what did we install just the copilot preview is that right Dan pretty sure this is like the most bleeding-edge version of

Starting point is 01:23:23 Windows on the planet right now. So this has the weird copilot. Right, but it doesn't have all these other things. So we don't know how old this version of copilot is. We don't know if this is the version of copilot that they're actually going to be launching. And when they do launch it, it's going to be a preview version. I will say, given its performance right there, I'm not the most confident in it. performance right there i'm not the most confident in it um i just um would you want it to be able to do actions without user input well it's not without user input i am inputting

Starting point is 01:23:56 i mean okay this is something what if i wrote a script to pretend like this is something. What if I wrote a script to pretend like... This is why it doesn't do things on your computer. Because then it's dangerous, right? Yeah, it's going to be dangerous regardless. But you could already script those things to happen. Yeah, okay. This is pointless then. Yeah, it's not like you can do anything in here that you couldn't do in a PowerShell. Which can run in the background anyway.

Starting point is 01:24:23 So what are we protecting from here exactly lawsuits well yeah but if they were going to sue over this they could sue over power shell you know what i mean like i just i don't really i i do wonder if this is just us you know the starting point where it's basically chat gpt but you don't have to go to Bing comm which is a benefit I mean that's something I don't want to go to things I just don't think we should say almost anything because we don't know if this is the right version well what we know is this is a version that is in development yeah sure but yeah that's not the necessarily we're talking about this as if it's the

Starting point is 01:25:04 one that people are gonna get no no I have no idea if that's true i'm talking about this in the terms of how it describes itself right it describes itself as not being capable of interacting with your computer which was exactly what i wanted this version of it describes it that way i think that that is a significant design decision. That's not a technical thing. That's a design decision. So no, I don't think it's likely that that's going to change in the, what is it, like four days before this is more broadly available? Okay, but here's the thing. The one that they're showing off in the video has a mic.

Starting point is 01:25:38 This one doesn't. Sure. This is not the right version. Sure. But I mean, again, that doesn't address what I said. Where... Can something help me focus? And it automatically opens Spotify.

Starting point is 01:25:49 Oh, no, you have to click it. No, it doesn't. So you have to do... Everything. It just... No, it just did it. Look. Well, here, hold on, hold on.

Starting point is 01:25:59 Wait, wait, wait. Organize my windows. Hold on. We haven't actually tried that yet. I thought we did. No, no, no. I was just bothering you. We never actually tried it. Because I asked it to open stuff, then organize it.

Starting point is 01:26:08 And what it did was it tried to use AeroSnap or whatever it's called now. And then it ultimately... There's more stuff in here that it's doing without user input. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Let's try it. Let's try it.

Starting point is 01:26:21 Organize my windows. Here we go. Yeah, I on. Let's try it. Let's try it. Organize my windows. Here we go. Yeah, I would. Sure. So yeah, this is not how it works in their video. Isn't it a marketing video? Yeah, but like it's... I don't...

Starting point is 01:26:42 We're using a version that is not the one That is going to be released There are clear differences Between the two apps We cannot say this is legit We will get destroyed for this This is BS This version came out today

Starting point is 01:26:57 It doesn't matter Nobody said it's legit Luke We said this is what Microsoft has made available right now This is an extreme preview build. Yeah. There's like four layers of extreme previews. And it's completely irrelevant because one that is clearly not this version, because it has functionality that we can see, like the mic button is being released in a couple days. And we're talking about one that is now already clearly old. Are you mad? You guys, guys i am mad you guys don't see the

Starting point is 01:27:26 problem with this no not at all oh my god not even a little bit goofballs but this is balls they released this today so what so why would we not talk about it when would we this is not the news article that we're addressing so but this is what's here. So we read out a news article with talking points and then talk about something completely different. I mean, okay, can I draw,

Starting point is 01:27:49 can I make an analogy? It's like Secret, no, I won't name a certain brand. LTT Store releases a new shirt. Well, they used American Apparel shirts like seven years ago, so let's review

Starting point is 01:27:59 an American Apparel shirt. But that's not comparable at all. It's like if, it's like if a game developer announced an upcoming game and announced a release date for it and showed a showed a trailer for it. And then, like, you know, two days later, whatever, put up a preview build of it and people played the preview build and talked about it. That's what this is. There is nothing wrong with that. They didn't have to make this preview build available. This is not pirated. This isn't a leak. This is something Microsoft made available. I don't think it is proper form to read a news article about something

Starting point is 01:28:34 and then open up something that is clearly not that thing. ChatGPT4 in chat says, Linus knows he's wrong. He's just messing with Luke. No, I legitimately don't. I think it's completely valid if a company releases a preview to use it and talk about it 100 they don't have to do that in in my opinion this is a preview build of what is going to be released on tuesday and they exist

Starting point is 01:29:00 in the preview builds for you know stability testing for the wider Windows world. Luke is right that we don't know that. But there are certain things that we can anticipate based on what we're looking at right now. And they might turn out to be different. And I would love for this to be very different. very different but it's clear to me right now from a from a design standpoint that this is meant to be more of a um but i think i think it's the wording because we're saying things like it cannot do this thing yeah right now it can't right but it they are currently showing in their stuff that it can so we need to be clear when saying that i don't know that might

Starting point is 01:29:45 be fmb it could be so we need to be clear when saying that that this preview view build can't do this yet sure but i can't test this thing and maybe we'll know when it releases on tuesday or whenever it's releasing because like look at look at this turn on dark mode searching for the right action generating answers dark mode turned on so like can it actually do that i don't know from our testing can we tell that it can't do that no because this is not the same version but this is what they released today it's just so irrelevant yeah so look it can turn on dark mode. Did it actually do it? I don't think it did. Click yes. Let's see Right, but you didn't have to click yes on their thing. There you go. There's your dark mode

Starting point is 01:30:32 So it can change settings, but the dark mode on their thing doesn't like explode over the screen all beautiful like There's no way that that is to be a feature of anything. That's definitely not a thing. It looks cool, though. It's clear that it's been zhuzhed up a little bit. Yes. And what will land in however many days until it comes is probably somewhere in between that and this.

Starting point is 01:31:00 And I would say, I would anticipate it will be closer to this and that and that is in my opinion totally fair to say sure we just have to make it very clear very clear sure we are not talking about the thing that's in the news article that we're addressing the thing that's releasing around the corner we're talking about this preview build that we have that is clearly not the same one because there's no mic etc etc etc if they release it on tuesday and there's no mic that would be hilarious sure but we can't actually say that that's like gonna be a thing or not look the only thing that i'm taking away from this is that it's pretty clear that the usefulness will be fairly limited oh yeah probably it's it's very clear that if this is anywhere near where they

Starting point is 01:31:47 were at any point in time that was not a year ago that this is it's going to be quite limited yeah so that's that's my only point i think that's a pretty i think that's a pretty realistic assessment you could be i'm not even saying you could be right, because all you're saying is that we don't know for sure, and that's fair enough. But it could be entirely different. It could also be literally exactly the preview build that we just tried. It could also be just this.

Starting point is 01:32:17 With no mic, with no change. Yeah, absolutely. We just don't know. I'd be surprised if it doesn't have a mic, because to me, what i'm seeing right now is this is this is clippy that i can interact with with my voice and it will be some combination of chat gpt and maybe being able to do some stuff for me but its utility is going to be really limited like i can already tell from that organize my windows thing that that's not going to be how

Starting point is 01:32:42 that works how on earth would it know which window i want to make big in the top left quadrant or yeah i mean that's the other thing too is like aerosnap i really can't remember the new branding for it so i'm just going to call it aerosnap forever that's my commitment how could it possibly know if i want one thing to take up the entire half of the screen and then i want the other two in quadrants. It wouldn't, it would need user interaction for that. So the version that we see here honestly looks a lot more realistic, where it takes one of my windows,

Starting point is 01:33:11 snaps it to the side, and kind of asked me to, asked me to select another one. And actually kind of useful for people that aren't used to Windows snapping, because it can get a little weird. A big issue I have with this though, is the number of different ways that I'm expected to interact

Starting point is 01:33:25 with this computer it's slow I either need to use my voice which I think you have to click the mic to reprompt the voice every time I think unless I well I know that Windows has had voice prompt support in the past although when they killed cortana i don't know if that died like can you can you say hey bing and have your mic wake up on your computer i don't even know i've never had a reason to bother setting that up if it even exists so i i have to activate a voice prompt somehow which means i either have to touch my keyboard to hit a hot key or i have to interact with my trackpad or my mouse and click on something i then need to say something out loud i then need to wait around for a data center somewhere to

Starting point is 01:34:13 receive that that audio file because they're probably not doing the processing locally i then need to wait for it to searching searching figure out if it can do something and i then need it to apply it um it feels oh right and then in order to apply it in many cases i'm either going to have to basically do it myself or i'm going to have to click on something or otherwise confirm needing to click on the yes is like, Anytime you're, okay, I've had a lot of people point out to me that I don't use Control Shift Escape to open Task Manager.

Starting point is 01:34:54 And my response to that is, my hand's already on the mouse. My hand wasn't on my keyboard. The fastest tool is the one that's already in your hand in a lot of cases. And if my hands are already on the keyboard, by all means, Control Shift Escape, let's go escape let's go right both your hands are on the keyboard because of typing what you just typed so it's pop yeah the oh see i really hope that the build that

Starting point is 01:35:19 we get has an easier way for me to just press enter like enter confirm enter to confirm or or maybe yeah maybe it's i don't know if escape for no is good or not but maybe enter for confirm and backspace for no uh i don't know because in a text box those both already kind of have meanings i know yeah it would have to only work if you haven't typed anything yet. And then the second you type anything, both those controls go away. Oh, man. It's the only way I've thought of it working. Here's the last thing I want to know about this preview build. Okay.

Starting point is 01:35:58 Okay. All right. What was I looking for the other day? Oh, no. Oh, no. Yeah, this isn't going to be any better. Oh, no. Really? for the other day oh no oh no yeah this isn't gonna be any better oh no really this it sleep country canada falls under best match and change when the pc sleeps when plugged in is number three

Starting point is 01:36:17 are you kidding me you guys web results really shouldn't show up in there i hate it so much or they fine fine maybe they do but if i search for just sleep what are the freaking odds what are the odds microsoft that i am looking for sleep country canada instead of power sleep and battery settings also can i can i try some oh no sorry not that one can i try something really quick here can i can i open these in a new tab i want to know what the difference is between all these different things what are these okay so we've got change when the pc sleeps when plugged in okay so that's power and battery hold on sleep okay we've got holy they're different they're different genius okay we've got choosing energy efficient sleep settings okay so it's just all

Starting point is 01:37:13 the different things and it just highlights it okay where did one of the other ones go oh power sleep and battery settings okay so that's just this that's just two names for the same things same thing sure okay fine good enough why buy a mattress anywhere else oh no everyone's just talking about sleep country no i'm not gonna lie the second you said that that jingle immediately. I'll say this. There's a lot of good reasons to buy a mattress somewhere else and we'll just leave it at that. Talk about 1U Land Centre? Yeah, sure. I have

Starting point is 01:38:02 had an extremely challenging week, but also an extremely exciting week. Did you realize that the first video about the land center at the new house, can I even call it a new house anymore? It's been three years. It's got some scuffs on it. Like it's not new, new, that's for sure. It's still great and i still love

Starting point is 01:38:25 it and i'm you know i'm really excited about all the things that we've done with it and actually there's still still lots of plans but i don't know if it's new anymore so whatever my house um the first video that we did unveiling the one u gaming systems that we were going to put in the rack to have like super super high gaming density in the rack that was almost a year ago since then i have had laptops that i borrowed from work set up at all those stations yeah 11 months ago this is my new gaming pc one u pcs for my new house part one that design completely thrown away completely gone then it gets even better uh we then did a follow-up video a couple months ago i think

Starting point is 01:39:13 it was where we unveiled the all-new design we ran into some problems it was validated quite well by the team super proud of the team you know great job um but they didn't try a fiber optic display port cable so what happened was the layout of that system had the gpu on the inside which is totally a thing especially for compute oriented um rack mount machines where they'll just yeah they'll just like have a bunch of gpus lined up in there they don't have display out anyway so who cares these do have display out but they had a solution to that we were going to have uh just little pass-through cables that and just have a um uh like a female jacket the back

Starting point is 01:40:02 of the case to a male going into the gpu fancier than you would have needed to do really yeah so pretty sick oh yeah or just well a pass-through just a grommet it's not good that's rough because all of a sudden what you're doing is way better i'm just saying like this is not an impossible to overcome problem yeah it's fine okay there's a couple reasons that it was um the way the internal layout was there was no there was no space with like the power supply we needed and the gpu and the cable coming out of it like it actually didn't fit in the width uh and then number two was that if you ran something through a grommet in a rack mount you'd have no way to pull it out

Starting point is 01:40:40 without unless you had a bunch of slack at the back and you had it like perfectly one of those things where you have like the coiled cable on like a yeah yeah like a track it's a bad solution yeah so anyway um so that design had to be substantially changed because all of a sudden we couldn't have the gpu inside the case so uh this was a really good idea i can't remember if this was jake or antoine but't remember if this was Jake or Antoine, but someone came up with the idea of, okay, well, hold on a second. Why don't we just borrow an idea

Starting point is 01:41:11 from some other GPU servers and put the GPUs at the front? Have front IO. I mean, it's rack mount, right? You can have stuff in the back, stuff in the front. I mean, honestly, if I'd thought of it, I would have put the networking in the front too. Why on earth do the vast majority of rack-mount network switches have all their ports at the front,

Starting point is 01:41:31 and the vast majority of rack-mount systems have all the ports at the front? I actually don't understand this. To be clear, some do. Some do have ports at the front. Yeah, they definitely don't all. They definitely don't all, and the vast majority of networking is in the front of the rack it's a pretty good question I'm sure there's reasons for it because you know just having everything water falling down the rack to the

Starting point is 01:41:53 systems at the front it's not necessarily better than running everything around to the back anyway but I get it I get it I get it but the point is that we borrowed that idea and we went to roll everything out and there were some big challenges it turns out that having um five different people build all five of the systems results in five different sort of types of mistakes that can get made so i ended up spending somewhere in the neighborhood of between like 15 and 18 hours over the span of the friday night the weekend and then a couple of nights this week, putting all of the finishing touches on these systems.

Starting point is 01:42:29 There were some extra standoffs in one of them. That was really awkward because I had to reposition the reset switch and the system was on and I was just plugging in a header, which doesn't matter. And the board flexed more than I expected because there wasn't a standoff in a spot where there should be one and it shorted out on a standoff that wasn't supposed to be there so that was a really scary moment fortunately it survived um but i also man i finally i did the works okay i finally did it i custom terminated cables for every system in my rack they are exactly exactly oh my god the right length um the water cooling to the pool is in oh wait for all the one used to oh yeah there are six systems running off it now. My personal machine, all five of the one use.

Starting point is 01:43:26 Right now. Right this very moment now. All those systems. Wow, that's actually pretty cool. Are cooled by the pool. All the cable management at the back is such that I can have, if I need to perform maintenance on a system, I can have it unplugged out of the rack in about 30 to 40 seconds and i've temporarily

Starting point is 01:43:47 because this is something hopefully i won't be doing a lot of but i've got a radiator pump res combo and tubing whips with quick connects sitting on a bench i can have it on that bench and plugged into those in about another 30 seconds and i can have it i can have it booted in well under two minutes to do any kind of diagnostic anything, because I ran into some weird issues. Out of the five systems, two of them wouldn't update the BIOS. Just, I had one that was just resetting every time I tried to do it, when it was in the rack and running over display. I mean, you never know.

Starting point is 01:44:19 Theoretically, optical display port is totally transparent to the system, but, you know, I don't know. But the display would just turn off sometimes when I took it out, and I put it on the bench it just Immediately worked and and the screen never flickered or went away, so you You just you want to eliminate variables. You know when in doubt when something's going wrong. You just take out any potentially unusual

Starting point is 01:44:44 circumstances around the system Put it on a bench you plug in just a keyboard just a monitor and power and that's it nothing fancy i actually want the most whenever i'm troubleshooting i don't want anything good i want the most basic old thing that just works. Yeah. That's a long time. There were DVI. All the techies would go around with, uh, uh, PS two keyboards.

Starting point is 01:45:10 Cause there's like a huge chance that your USB keyboard wasn't going to work in BIOS or whatever. A hundred percent. It's kind of funny. Um, man, there's going to be, there's definitely going to be multiple videos coming.

Starting point is 01:45:21 So we've got the one where we finally show the actual final build of these machines uh we've got one where uh we do the plumbing for the whole pool water cooling and we show um what's the order of these videos can be released in there's been some debate internally okay i think right now building a final final underscore three underscore final for real this time system is coming next okay and then plumbing and uh so plumbing the house and then plumbing final state all five of them into it yeah is coming next and then i actually need a bit more time to do a more thorough thermal investigation so I had all five of the land systems running for mark simultaneously which means at about 320 330 watts

Starting point is 01:46:15 per 3080 they have 3080s in them just because they are a banging deal. And I wanted to go EVGA one last time. EVGA doesn't have 40 series. That's pretty cool. And I also said I wouldn't go 40 series. And I was like, you know what? EVGA one last time. So all of them have EVGA XC3 3080s in them or something like that. So that's about 320 watts each times five.

Starting point is 01:46:44 So with the CPUs as well, we're looking at about 2,000 watts. Now here's the thing. Alex and Jake talked me into using a heat exchanger instead of doing just the pool loop going directly into the systems. And from, look guys, from day one, I've known that they are right about that. But I think you guys know that i like to live on the bleeding edge and what the heat exchanger isn't is living on the bleeding edge because you're going to be giving up some performance okay a heat exchanger operates most efficiently

Starting point is 01:47:17 when the difference in temperature between the fluids that are flowing through it is very high but you gotta remember one of my goals for this project is to cool the room so it is actually not great for me even if it's fine for the system to have the coolant on the room side be 10 degrees higher than the pool. Yeah. So I think it is possible that post-payoff with the heat exchanger... Might come out? I might figure out how to fly a little closer to the sun and run the pool. And just to make sure you guys understand, it's not pool water, pool water. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:48:04 There's no salt or chlorine. It's a loop that is embedded. It's just plastic tubing that's embedded in the walls and the floor of the pool. So it just loses heat over that immense distance to the concrete of the pool and to the ground. This is really cool. It was like super late. It was like five in the pool and to the ground. This is really cool. It was like super late.

Starting point is 01:48:27 It was like five in the morning or something like that. And I was like, okay, so this is neat. I can see the temperature difference with the thermal camera of the water going out of the house and coming back in. So obviously it is losing some heat out there. And we reached an equilibrium point where the inside temperature, I think, was... I'm going to get some of this wrong, so there's going to be a video, and we'll get all the details right in that.

Starting point is 01:48:53 But somewhere between 8 and 9 degree delta between the inside loop and the outside loop. But what I didn't know was, where is the heat being lost? Because the run is far. Like it's... Is it all... I think you just said this, but is it all copper piping? There's no copper. Oh.

Starting point is 01:49:11 It's all plastic. Oh, okay. Yeah, so it's a mixture of PVC and I think it's PEX. I'm not sure exactly what the stuff they use for like in-floor heating is, but like that red stuff that they embed in the they use for in-floor heating is, but that red stuff that they embed in the floor for in-floor heating. It's just the opposite of that. It's in-floor heating the pool, but in-floor cooling the water. Anyway.

Starting point is 01:49:37 Pecs. Okay, there you go, pecs. So what I was thinking was, wait, there's an access hatch out there. What if I take the thermal camera outside and go right next to the pool? And to my delight, even though it is so far, like we discovered this back when we did whole room water cooling. We weren't actually dissipating any of the flippant heat outside because we were just shedding all of it inside the room with the copper tubing. And I thought I'd have the same problem, even though's plastic obviously it dissipates some heat otherwise in floor heating wouldn't work right yeah but even though it was small there was a difference in the temperature

Starting point is 01:50:13 of the water going into the walls of the pool and coming out of the walls of the pool i think it works i actually think think it works i actually think like i i actually think it freaking works which is so exciting um yes bots and floatplane chat says nine degree delta is significant yeah that's big yeah but what that uh and what that means is that the room is not that cool yeah also i uh there was a there was a fundamental flaw in the plan because from the start i said look i want to cool down this room but um what i didn't really account for was that the vast majority of the heat that I would be removing with this system was net new heat. All the switches and like NVRs and the

Starting point is 01:51:12 servers. I'm not going to water cool like the hard drives in my server. All that heat is not getting dumped into the water and so all the systems that are dumping heat into the water are being added to the room so the good news is at least you're not increasing yeah yes yeah it's not substantially hotter yeah

Starting point is 01:51:31 but it's very clear to me that in addition to what i've got going on in there now i'm gonna have to add like a radiator door or even just a janky radiator plumbed to the pool water, just like I had before, to just take hot air in that hot corner of the room right behind the rack. Just run it through a radiator. Mindasil in Flowplane Chat said, you live in Canada. If you want to cool the room, just put in a window. One problem, it's in like the middle. Yeah, well, it's not, but it also also there's no window going in yeah let me put it that way there we go no window going into it so issues there um and then two that's actually

Starting point is 01:52:14 a huge problem in bc is a lot of our housing was built with no air conditioning in mind at all or just cooling in mind at all and now the summers are getting like really unsustainably hot yeah and it's like actually a huge problem yeah so many people are are putting in uh move the stupid heat exchanger outside no no that doesn't help that doesn't help because it's there's there's still like the tubing in the reservoir and and and all that like it's it it's not a bad idea but no the heat exchanger is going to stay inside also for maintenance. The other thing too is that a huge part

Starting point is 01:52:49 of the point of this was I didn't want to waste the heat. I'm paying for the heat anyway, right? When you power a computer, you're paying for heat. So if you could do something useful with it, then you might as well. And obviously, you know i what what i'm gonna save like 20 bucks on like the heating bill for the pool 50 bucks a month

Starting point is 01:53:12 probably probably not even that much like yeah maybe maybe i saved 20 bucks on the pool heating bill or something like that but 20 bucks is 20 bucks and it was that by a bunch of months yeah it was more it was more just like a proof oh i mean i'll never make back what i spent on the implementation of this no if it wasn't for content it would make no sense but it's cool and the thing is that you don't have to do it like this i think a lot of people watch our videos and kind of go that's totally impractical nobody would ever do it like that and it's like yeah i know but but you could Nobody would ever do it like that. And it's like, yeah, I know, but, but you could, but you could do it like kind of like this. Have you ever watched Pimp My Ride?

Starting point is 01:53:48 Yeah. Like I remember, uh, when, when we did, uh, Terran, uh,

Starting point is 01:53:52 old Terran, not new Terran, when we did old Terran's extreme tech upgrade, he had kind of a janky version of essentially what I'm doing, where I have my system connected to fiber optic cables in a different room. Right. He just like, but he just had copper cables and he just had it like running under his door, but it achieves the exact same thing. It was so cool because I was like, Hey, Hey, that's that thing that we made that video about, but done for like $23 instead of, you know, $500 or, you know, whatever it costs for a bunch of fiber optic cabling and

Starting point is 01:54:27 uh and you know in some cases having to have like a contractor run it or you know digging around in your crawl space or like um like what ant venom did yeah when he essentially did whole room water cooling but just put it in his basement where it was a much shorter run and where he didn't have to have something outside that could, you know, hazardously fall off of a roof at some point, which never happened.

Starting point is 01:54:52 No. Miraculously. I got to it before it fell down. That was not good craftsmanship. What happened with that roof mount? Ask Linus what plan is for winter um okay so i think we're gonna look into whether it makes more sense to drain the pool to winterize it or um or just run it at a really low temperature like i think i've heard that if you just run it at like

Starting point is 01:55:24 10 degrees or five degrees or something like that, that's, that's actually pretty good. It has a, it has a cover. Like it has a, like not a lid, but it, but it has a cover, which apparently helps with efficiency, like flipping a lot. I am a little bit worried about like dew point and condensation. However, the heat exchanger might be an advantage then. So here's something I don't know. What I do know is that as you go, you know, a couple meters underground, the temperature is basically like kind of fixed year round. And that's one of the big reasons that geothermal heating and cooling works so well because you can attach a heat pump to it

Starting point is 01:56:05 and you can basically extract heat from the ground or um put heat into the ground and it's it's limitless in its capacity both ways um because it basically is this fixed temperature kind of year round um but what i don't know is whether that applies to But what I don't know is whether that applies to two meters down in a pool where it kind of has outside air exposure. So probably not. But then if there's water in it, but then if that water is heated a bit or something. Yeah, I'm not sure. I'm not sure exactly where you're dumping most of the heat to because on the one side of the tubes, you've got the water. And because on the one side of the tubes, you've got the water.

Starting point is 01:56:49 And then on the other side of the tubes, you've got the earth. So where's the heat going? It's going to basically, you know, path of least resistance. Yeah, probably some both ways, but I don't know where the bulk of it is. And so I, basically, my plan, and this is a very Linus plan, is to keep an eye on it as the temperatures fall and um just react see how that goes yeah i'm definitely gonna put antifreeze in it i don't want it to freeze out there you know so i'm just gonna i'm just gonna go ham i know like in the ocean from like scuba diving i'm sure you've experienced this the further down you

Starting point is 01:57:25 go the colder it gets um but i don't i don't know if the pool is really deep enough to have much of that property i don't know i have no idea i don't know and i don't know how much of that changes when you cover the pool because a lot of that happens from how much sunlight is able to penetrate the water so if you're covering the pool and it becomes zero anyways i don't know how much impact that has because the water is going to churn to a certain degree so i don't know not sure yeah i don't know i mean it could be it could be that if i do ultimately turn to my direct pool cooling system that i might have to have like like a valve Yeah, so that in the winter. I'm actually using the heat exchanger just to make sure that I don't you know run zero degree or

Starting point is 01:58:14 5-degree freaking water into my rack and then end up with a bunch of condensation in it. Yeah, yeah It's interesting. Yeah, I don't know about idea actually yeah Okay, okay speaking of not bad ideas. I have another idea because I was't know. It's not a bad idea, actually. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Speaking of not bad ideas, I have another idea because I was sitting here thinking, hey, hold on a second. In the winter, do I really want to put this heat outside? I mean, it got like kind of, you know, it's fine. Okay.

Starting point is 01:58:37 So you're going to need like a series of... Hold on. Just hold on. I'm going to get there. You know, kind of like, you know, obviously if we do keep the pool filled, then it'd be better to like, you know, have a little bit of the pool filled, then it would be better to, like, you know, have a little bit of heat going in there that's not burning gas for no reason. But then, okay, hold on, hear me out.

Starting point is 01:58:50 New pitch. There's a fireplace in the living room that we don't use and it's still not even hooked up properly because, you know, contractor things. Ah, yes. So I pitched to Yvonne. Okay, we create this motorized, or, like we have like, like fans that blow little like pieces of like red and orange and yellow plastic to make it kind of look like a little fire.

Starting point is 01:59:13 And then in the back of the fireplace, I just have a radiator with fans on it that just blow server room heat into the living room all winter. Huh? It's not as stupid as it sounds, because get this. The original plan for the server room was to run through these copper... Sorry. You should get one of those, like, kind of crappy...

Starting point is 01:59:35 You see stupid commercials for them all the time, but it's like a fan, but the fan blades are screens, and when it spins, it creates an image. Yeah. So it's a fan blowing the air, and the fan that's blowing the air has flames on it. Yeah. So we have these tubes that go from the server room to the side of the house. That looks so bad.

Starting point is 01:59:54 We were going to use that to run down to the pool, but then the other contractor, the much worse one, forgot to run two of those tubes. So there was supposed to be four two for the solar hot uh hot and cold and then two for the server room hot and cold well they only ran the two so we had to use those two for the solar solar heating yeah and then we had to find another path for the pool one or for the uh the server room one so it went through that conduit that existed back when the original owners of the house had wanted to put pool equipment in the basement. And then that's

Starting point is 02:00:28 apparently not best practice anymore, so it's outside in a shed. But anyway. So we have those tubes running. They happen to run almost right under the fireplace in the living room. So I even already have the tubes. All we have to do is put some holes in the ceiling and find them. Huh? Holes in the in the ceiling and find them. Huh?

Starting point is 02:00:46 Holes in the theater room ceiling. No problem. Life approval factor, 10 out of 10. Because it's the theater room, so she doesn't care. Yeah, she shouldn't. She probably wouldn't care about that anyway. Aborno says, I've always wanted to use my rack's excess heat to feed a 3D printed closure. See?

Starting point is 02:01:02 This is what I'm talking about! Just, uh, yeah. No, Yvonne did not approve the radiator in the fireplace plan. Yeah, my, like, first thought was, like, just put a TV in front of it and put, like, uh, you know, the, like, screen of a

Starting point is 02:01:22 of the Yule log fire on it, and I was like, like well that would kind of stop sort of all the airflow and also superheat a tv which doesn't sound great yeah yeah no the whole the whole point is that it's it's supposed to be a radiator that kind of looks like it it doesn't need to look like fire it just needs to look fire so we could just paint it red Red radiator like you know things like Dyson fans work Yeah, all those like air blade ones or whatever yeah Work is a strong word for how they something but sure I've never are they bad there They're very expensive, and they're really not very effective compared to just spinning blades

Starting point is 02:02:04 It's in its in its vacuum with pressurized output is that how it works I forget expensive and they're really not very effective compared to just spinning blades and it's and it's vacuum with pressurized output is that how it works I forget I've never actually known that's just what I've assumed if you could use that same type of system and just have a bit of a like panel gap maybe that could work I don't know hmm interesting I mean yeah it's it's it's not it's not happening either way it's just it's just i don't know i i just i was i i i became infatuated with the idea of utilizing waste heat for something yeah of course because yeah that's the bottom line yeah seems cool so you know if there was if there was some way that you could transport the heat from your computer to somewhere where you don't have to feel it or that better yet, you could use it in some way.

Starting point is 02:02:49 I just think that's super cool. Like I, um, okay. I didn't realize this, but in some houses there is a, there's a loop that just has a separate pump on it that moves water around so that in key places, like the the main like

Starting point is 02:03:08 regular ensuite bathroom you uh open up the hot water tap and it like has hot water right away because it just constantly has hot water i i had no idea that was even a thing so in the in the main bathroom in our house that was that was installed by the previous owners. I'd never heard of that before. Like in our old place, it took like a minute sometimes for the hot water tap to be hot. Um, so, you know, okay. What if I could use my waste heat to like heat that stupid loop that is just burning stupid gas for no stupid reason instead of like, so even in the summer is what this is what i'm trying to say even in the summer there are potential uses for for waste heat there's there's sometimes times when you might need heat for something but the problem with a computer is

Starting point is 02:03:56 that you know back to what i'd said about the heat exchanger where part of the challenge is that the difference in temperature is not very high like the one that we're using i think is is rated for its capacity at like it's also many tens of degrees delta between the two sides unless you mine or fold uh it's also going to be very inconsistent so you you wouldn't necessarily want to use it for something or you would not want it to be the only solution for something that's like you're actually going to care about yeah Yeah. So like that causes some issues as well. If it is going to be something you're going to care about, you'd have to have backup systems or whatever else.

Starting point is 02:04:32 Yeah. Really? I'm surprised you didn't do InstaHot on every spot. No, that sounds expensive. And just totally unnecessary. I mean, for me's it's less about the cost and more about just kind of the wastefulness of it i don't think that's really necessary if that hadn't already existed um there's no way i would have installed something like that i think i can wait 30 seconds for hot water then again this is an interesting question what's more wasteful the water that you

Starting point is 02:05:02 just the cold water you just dump down the sink while you wait for hot water or keeping that water i'm actually not sure i do not know the answer to this but i do know that we need to tell you about our sponsors got them thanks to volcanica coffee for sponsoring today's show pair your wan experience with a nice cup of joe volcanica coffee sources their beans from the finest crops in the best volcanic regions from around the world this means that each region provides distinctly different flavors and nuances to tantalize your taste buds. Their Roastmasters roast their coffee fresh every week in their state-of-the-art facility in Atlanta

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Starting point is 02:07:28 I know, right? It's so cruel. You've forced so many purchases onto people with this. I know, right? I'm putting mine on, too. You're going to put it on? Yeah, of course. Does it go over?

Starting point is 02:07:43 We've got to match. I've never had match for that. I've never had a onesie. Technically, I would say, or generally, I would say no, I wouldn't wear clothes under it. It's definitely nice and soft and comfortable. Okay, you know what? I'm going down to underwear. You're going full send?

Starting point is 02:08:03 Yeah, I'm going down to underwear. I mean, they can't tell. I could just be miming. I could just be miming what I'm pretending to to underwear. You're going full send? Yeah, I'm going down to underwear. I mean, they can't tell. I could just be miming. I could just be miming what I'm pretending to do right now. Dan, want to hit me with a merch message while I get changed real quick here? You can kind of like see. Sure, wherever I can. I don't think you can. No, for me.

Starting point is 02:08:15 Avert my eyes. Yeah, I mean, yeah, you do whatever works for you. Yeah. But I'm going onesie. I'm going to be comfortable for WAN show after dark today. Okay. Hi, LLD. Happy WAN Friday.

Starting point is 02:08:27 Okay. Question. After the computer store video, how did the logistics team feel when the truck came back? And what's the plan for all that stuff now that it's in inventory? Okay. So I have multiple, multiple answers for that. First of all, logistics, not impressed. But that's nothing compared to how unimpressed accounting and procurement were. It turns out that, you know, without getting flagged

Starting point is 02:08:54 for all kinds of, you know, auditing, doing all the reporting for something like this is very time-consuming and very complicated. I mean, we're still really glad we did it. Keith was, even aside from what he said in the video, just thrilled with the whole thing. I mean, this is stock that, you know, whatever he might have said in the video about his belief that people were still interested in this stuff. his, uh, his belief that people were still interested in this stuff. I mean, I think he knew he was never getting rid of any of this stuff for any dollars, let alone, you know, anywhere near full, full sticker. Um, which, you know, ultimately I did pay, I paid a lot more than what stickers should have been for a lot of those items. Um, so, you know, we're still glad,

Starting point is 02:09:41 we're glad we did it. It was a, it was. Actually, I've had quite a few people ask me, where did it come from? I was at the dentist, and I had to meet my family for lunch. Anyway, I had to meet my family for lunch, and I didn't have the car, so I had to walk to the restaurant, and I passed it, and I was like,

Starting point is 02:10:03 yeah, man, shops like this this how does this still exist you know how is it how is this how does this work yeah I you know what are these things on the shelf why are they there what's the story behind every you know archaeological pc item on this shelf and um I figured you know what the best you know would be really cool um is if someone just came in here and bought all this stuff so that they could get rid of it and they could have new stuff and i was like oh i'm someone um so that happened over a year ago i i thought it was about six months i told keith i was like yeah i poked my head in like six months ago and he's like oh i would have thought i would notice that like i watched your channel i know who you are and i was like hold

Starting point is 02:10:43 on a second maybe it wasn't six months because it was when I used to go to that dentist near there. And I've done two appointments at my new one and they're at least six months apart. So it must've been over a year ago. So I, so I popped my head in and was like, oh yeah, we should do this. And then Tanner reached out to him six months ago. Oh yeah. Yeah. So that six month timing makes no sense.

Starting point is 02:11:02 Yeah. So Tanner reached out to him six months ago and then intentionally ghosted him so that he would have no idea that we were actually doing it. So, so he basically vetted the guy, made sure he thought he'd be camera ready, made sure he'd be okay with us, you know, coming in and taking over his store for the day. And then was like radio silence so that it could be both okay and pre-approved but also a surprise uh so super cool i forget what the original question was um oh yeah logistics how'd they feel about it so anyway really glad we did it but there's definitely been some challenges to overcome, and I think this saga is far from over.

Starting point is 02:11:48 We have some ideas for what to do with the stuff. I think we've got some video concepts. I think it'd be super cool to do a video just building a computer out of my hall. I also was... Oh, man, hold on. I've got some ideas that I just jotted down in the middle of the night and emailed to myself one time. oh man hold on i've got i've got some ideas that i just like jotted down in the middle of the night and emailed to myself one side so much of what happens in my brain just gets emailed to myself because that's the only way that i know how to function uh i guess someone saw when i stood up

Starting point is 02:12:18 they said can confirm luke wears ltt underwear i actually wear no other kinds. Yep. I wear only LTT underwear. I thought you were going to stop at no. Oh, man. No, no, no. That's when I sleep. How's this for a video concept? Now you have a onesie. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:12:33 We go through and play a little game where I try to guess the eBay listing price of all of it combined. Oh, no. And then someone actually adds it up, and we see how close i can get see like how hosed you got yeah because i'm pretty sure i watched the video i'm pretty sure you got pretty host there's a lot of things in there where he was like ah this amount and i was like sheesh yeah oh oh oh oh okay no i can't reveal this one because it might ruin it. What about that?

Starting point is 02:13:12 Four. That's pretty good. Yeah. I don't know. That might be pretty good. Oh, video title. He told me this was indestructible. I disagree for that laptop. That might be pretty good. Oh, video title. He told me this was indestructible. I disagree for that laptop.

Starting point is 02:13:27 And we basically just kind of do a review-ish. How much does it take to get it to a point of being destructible? Because the thing's not particularly, no offense to Keith's pricing model, not particularly valuable at this point in time. Yeah. So I think if we were to just run some... Generally speaking, I'm opposed to destruction of working hardware.

Starting point is 02:13:52 It's sort of against the principles of our channel, but I think I could make an exception for an indestructible laptop. Yeah, a destruction tester, I think. Is that a challenge? TotalLeak in FloatplaneChat said, ask some of the younger staff what the items are. That's so depressing and I'm gonna write it down now. It's really good. I think that's really fantastic. Try to get... Or like try to get them to even like install some of them. Stuff like that.

Starting point is 02:14:23 Just ask them what they are, try to get them to actually like install some of them stuff like that just ask them what they are try to get them to actually like use them or install them or do things like that i think that'd be pretty good that's freaking hilarious all right so i mean honestly i could spend the entirety of next week just making follow-up content but then the problem is that like what about you know other videos i feel like people might feel like we're milking it a bit but also all these concepts are really good like they're just good videos it doesn't matter that they're like a sequel to something that was successful i i don't know i just it's also just a great video like i didn't realize i i watched it and then when i was done i was like smiling like the whole time because

Starting point is 02:15:04 yeah it was it was heartwarming but also just hilarious and like interesting and whatnot but I didn't realize it was freaking 34 minutes I added the gambling elements I didn't realize that until now 4 o'clock the night before the shoot that was a great idea

Starting point is 02:15:19 we need a way to keep this engaging throughout we can't just like watch me get quoted prices and put items in a bin for, you know, at that time we were aiming for like 15 to 20 minutes for the video. Okay. Okay. What can, what can we do to spice this up a little bit? Okay. Games of chance, um, swing by the dollar store in the morning just get anything that you could conceivably turn into a game of chance so like the pull the rope one sure or like you know the the custom custom dice the putting the crappy darts yeah exactly oh my goodness they were awful there's

Starting point is 02:16:00 more footage of them being awful um we've got one floatplane exclusive up already with extra footage from the from from that video and then uh there will hopefully be more actually we've got two videos up we have one um that's from the shoot and then we have a second one that is logistics receiving everything so if you want to see firsthand uh what that was like oh yeah unloading the tech shop wow i didn't see this. Yeah, and then I think there's probably going to be more at some point, but that's not a guarantee. I've got to talk to the social team

Starting point is 02:16:34 about what they have going on. Oh, yeah, wait, why is this? Hello? Oh, right, right, right, right, right. Exclusives have their own tab now. Behind the scenes, unloading the tech shop. Yeah, so the first thing we see is, I think, like, Kalanand being like, um, okay, unloading the tech shop. Yeah, so the first thing we see is I think like Kalanan being like,

Starting point is 02:16:48 okay, someone on the main account has watched this already. Brother, brother, here's my stuff. Just ridiculous. Completely ridiculous. Oh man. Oh wow. Community response to this one is extremely overwhelmingly positive. That's awesome.

Starting point is 02:17:08 Nice. What was the question again? I don't know. My mind is so fried this week. Team feel when the truck came back. Right. And what's the plan for all the stuff now that you have it? Yeah, yeah. So lots of different plans. I, oh right. One idea we had, and tell me if you think this is a good idea,

Starting point is 02:17:26 was to, we never do like signed merchandise. I think we've done it a couple times with Lambo stuff. Yeah. But other than that. A couple times with giveaways too, but not purchasable. Other than that, we've never really done it. And I had someone internally pitch to me, hey, what if we sell the items as just a signed item,

Starting point is 02:17:54 and then it's kind of like a random crapshoot what you're going to get. So most people will probably get a cable or something, but some people will get a monitor or a Xeon server or a 3080 or a TV. You're making a real life loot box. Yeah. I don't know. What do you think?

Starting point is 02:18:17 I have no idea. Is that stupid or is it smart? Because it'll be nowhere near what we paid just to be very clear this is not some kind of like ingenious money making scheme i suspect we walked out of there with somewhere in the neighborhood of like 300 to 700 items so even if it was like 25 bucks or something like that for for a signed piece of this video or whatever um but what what would that work out to let's say let's say i think i think you should decide the price okay chill uh i think you should decide the price after you figure out what the ebay value actually was oh interesting and then we base it on the ebay value yeah that's not a

Starting point is 02:18:58 big average out the ebay value i don't know if we're actually going to do that video though because like it's a lot of work a lot of work actually a ton of work more importantly i don't know how interesting that content is it feels like a part of a video instead it feels like a short it's a ton of video and it feels like a part of a video yeah or it's a ton of work and it feels like part of a video um donate to extra life could be an easy way to just like kind of get rid of it because I don't think we want this stuff sitting around forever well see that's the thing

Starting point is 02:19:33 is right now it is very in the way yeah yeah the bigger issue is not unloading it the bigger issue is walking around it right now um yeah I don't know I don't know so okay if there's 500 items and we said it's okay it's 25 bucks for a signed piece of this video that would be 12 $12,000 which is a fraction of what we

Starting point is 02:19:56 paid and I think probably kind of both a realistic actual value for that stuff. Anyway. Yeah, that's the main thing. I think that's probably a fairly realistic actual value for that stuff. There is some expensive stuff in there. There's more than one 30 series graphics card and stuff like that. But the vast majority of it is basically e-waste.

Starting point is 02:20:26 I mean, the distribution will probably be pretty similar to what you would actually get from a loot box. Yeah. Yeah, probably. Most of it's cables. I'm really concerned about how to ship. Because right now we're not really set up to just ship random stuff. Like we're not an eBay store. So we don't just have a bunch of like those expanding foam bag things yeah yeah we don't just have packing peanuts like nothing we sell on the

Starting point is 02:20:51 store is really fragile and it all comes in its own individually packaged boxes so a lot of the time you'll see the like the the the main the main carton that has smaller boxes in it won't have a ton of packing material in it because, I mean, what, this is going to break inside its box? I mean, I'm sure a courier somewhere is up to the challenge, but generally speaking, it doesn't really happen. Yeah. We'll pay more than $25 for the Mac G4 Cube. Well, no, that's the whole point though. Yeah. You won't get to pick if you get the G4 Cube. Oh, right. That was one of the other video concepts't get to pick if you get the G4 Cube. Oh, right, that was one of the other video concepts, doing a sleeper build in the G4 Cube.

Starting point is 02:21:28 I think I actually got a deal on that. I don't even know if it works, but here, let's eBay that right now. I know I didn't get a deal on Buzz Lightyear, but I think I got a deal on the G4 Cube. The Buzz Lightyear thing was hilarious. This is just the power adapter? hold on a second wait oh okay no no no no okay hold on okay new listing hold on yeah this is 15 bids why do people want this nine days left why do people want these hold on two. Two speaker surround. Hold on.

Starting point is 02:22:05 Power adapter? Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold on a second. Did I get a deal? Hold on. Oh, wait. This is just the case? Are these super collectible?

Starting point is 02:22:20 Why? They're a pretty interesting period of Apple. And I don't think they sold very well either. There's like none! Yeah, you got a rare computer there, bud. Holy crap! I actually got one thing that... The poster's worth 20 bucks! They're uh, they're pretty special.

Starting point is 02:22:41 Oh, sick. So then, are they so special special a pencil drawing of one i'm sure they don't sell many of those yeah okay hold on the power bricks are 150 bucks okay are these things so special that people would be really upset if i did a sleeper build in one though that i'm not sure about but i'm not entirely sure you should let it through your fingers just yet okay well i'm not sure about but i'm not entirely sure you should let it through your fingers just yet okay well i'm not committed to i'm not committed to uh you know the the the signed loot box thing i think it'd be even cooler if the g4 cube was the sleeper though so we do a sleeper build and then then we do the signed loot box thing.

Starting point is 02:23:30 And instead of getting the G4 Cube, you get a sleeper gaming PC in the G4 Cube. What if you just reproduce the cube, maybe slightly larger with a sleeper build in it? I don't think we'd be able to do that. Have you looked at it lately? It's basically a work of art, isn't it? Yeah, it's beautiful. What is? The G4 Cube is? Yeah.

Starting point is 02:23:48 People are very, very split in the audience over whether it's okay to gut that thing. It's pretty special. Why is it special? It's like art almost apparently they only sold about a hundred thousand of them or something like that yeah it doesn't sound very special to me lu this man is so jaded look why is it art it's a box you're you're too mad for someone who's wearing an adorable onesie right now he looks too comfy to be this angry. I am actually pretty comfy.

Starting point is 02:24:28 I think I got actually tired after I put it on because I was like, I felt cozy. You even got it on over the headphones. You're ridiculous. I'm like, I'm fully chilling out right now. It's made out of the underwear material. Oh, because it is really soft. Yeah, that's why it's like out of the underwear material it's oh because it is really soft yeah that's why it's like soft and stretchy and stuff it's quite nice yeah we put a bunch of we put probably too much work into this for how many i expect us to sell but uh the team was really

Starting point is 02:24:57 excited about this product and so we we did like a whole bunch of rounds of sampling to just to get it just right yeah yeah it's it's pretty nice so it's underwear is it's like full body underwear essentially yeah it's the longest underwear yeah um do you want another merch message i sure yeah i forgot what i was even responding to at this point hit me okay hold on would you have to destroy it yeah oh yeah yeah you'd have to you'd have to significantly modify it oh right i put up a poll on floatplane let's have a look at the results uh show results okay to sleeper build 60 say yes only. Okay, so here's the thing. This kind of poll is not really just majority rules.

Starting point is 02:25:57 Like when we asked about posting exclusives that we had already produced during the production break, I think about 60% said yes. But based on that 40% said no, we made the call to not do it because the no kind of has more weight when it's something very significant, I guess is what I'm trying to say. If it was 98% two percent no then those no's get drowned out a little bit but there's it's not as simple as just okay 51 say yes okay we do it what if the parts don't work yeah does that okay okay hold on here let's let's try it let's try it again this is a conversation currently going on in full plane chat and i i kind of think that's interesting. I fix.

Starting point is 02:26:45 I no fix. Sleeper. No. Okay. I'm not hiring you to fix it. Spend more money on this overpriced cube, yeah. You could let people that care about this thing have the parts that don't work work because maybe they can restore them or

Starting point is 02:27:07 something it would probably be good to uh if you do do a sleeper build in it then make the parts available because i'm pretty sure those are difficult to come by yeah interesting um like for your phone uh you know that was parts that i managed to get oh do you have all the parts for that it will be here monday i hope oh fantastic i bought an entire phone guess what wait what yeah that was the way oh yeah super cheap oh just an entire new phone with a broken big screen oh perfect uh because my big screen works your big screen works so we can replace literally everything else yeah it's going to be a linus and dan extravaganza uh as it turns out i do need to fix my fold three that fell in the pool because there's some footage that we need for a video ironically a video about my computer breaking um that is on that phone like i didn't didn't need any of the family stuff.

Starting point is 02:28:06 I had actually backed it up about three weeks prior. And so I was already going to do the video with Dan anyway because I thought it was really interesting to just do, like, a phone repair video. But then we discovered that I had selfie-shot some stuff that had not been ingested in that three weeks before it died in jest. And so we actually do need to get the data off it.

Starting point is 02:28:26 The good news is, based on the symptoms I've seen, I think it's just a busted battery. And then Dan also found some corrosion on one of the daughter boards. Yeah, it might be a little bit more severe. We don't know yet. It seems like definitely it wants to have two batteries and one of them is just absolutely puffed to maximum.

Starting point is 02:28:46 It's so puffed that one of the displays, we're not going to have to heat up to get the adhesive loose. It removed half of the glued-on display, which was really nice. And thankfully that's... That's a feature, not a bug. And it seems like that is the side that may have got far more uh water in it than than the other one which might be okay so we'll see we will see and the side that got a lot less water is the main board that's the important one yeah with the storage chips on it and the soc so so i'm i'm pretty hopeful honestly speaking and um what i'm excited for is if the main board doesn't work we have a

Starting point is 02:29:23 bunch of reflow tools and so what we'll have to do because I got you a working phone but it's all broken we'll have to take the SOC sorry we'll have to take the memory chips and transplant them that won't work that'll be that'll be the Hail Mary I know I really I sincerely we can just like message drive savers or something. Hey, do they... Because if you... Oh, if you care that much, then yeah. No, I don't mean to send it to them.

Starting point is 02:29:52 I just mean we could just ask them, is there any point doing this? Because I think the answer is no. I think if you decouple the controller from the NAND chips, the new controller no longer knows where anything is. Just take the controller too. Well, the controller should be on the SoC. Just take the controller to uh well the controller should be on the soc just take the soc okay right but then if but do you see where we're going yeah

Starting point is 02:30:12 i see where we're going we're going in down a rabbit hole that's why it's a hill mary yeah i don't think we're gonna go down i don't think we'll need to i think i would rather i would rather just reenact me in the server room discovering that my computer is broken. I think that would be better. Honestly. We'll see. We'll see. I can.

Starting point is 02:30:30 I'm hopeful. I put the act in reenactment. So I'm in my computer room right now. I can't believe this. My system, it just, it just, I was in the middle of using it and it turned off. What the, what the heck? I thought I'm a tech tips man. Why is my computer broken i'm pretty sure i

Starting point is 02:30:45 can pull it off uh hold on we got a second merch message of the three this is going very smoothly uh can you ask luke how he got that starfield constellation edition watch uh i bought it he just he just i don't believe you I actually did hold on a second oh my just hold on oh no hold on what have you done with Luke hold on a second always that's a $300 did you oh no you also get the game and you get other stuff too I've bought collector's editions before okay that's that's true he does buy physical copies of games this is a thing he

Starting point is 02:31:30 does yeah dude the physical copy is not a disc but it's like a it's a credit stick from the game it's actually kind of cool why are these pictures so small this is stupid this is kind of dumb yeah wait so are you wearing it right now? It's right here. Oh, why is it sitting on your keys? Well, because I took it off because the onesie sleeve goes all the way. Oh. I didn't want to like make it look weird.

Starting point is 02:31:55 So what kind of watch is it? Is it smart or is it just like a... It's smart. Okay, so it's... I call it a last, last, last, last, last, last, last gen smart watch. I see. Yeah. But it's like actually kind of nice oh so it doesn't have a touch screen no cool four buttons around it the left side is up and down top right i think is like settings and then bottom right is i think back cool definitely need the leather strap there There's another strap option.

Starting point is 02:32:25 I don't remember what exactly it is. It's just standard. You can get any strap. I think it looks great. It has a step counter on it. Sure. It shows your notifications on the screen. You can change your music on your phone with it.

Starting point is 02:32:38 Heck yeah. Yeah. All right. Hello, DLL. Off topic, but will the badminton Center have rental rackets? Yes. Yeah, I think it's really silly that a lot of places don't have rental rackets and rental shoes. It's like such a nominal investment that pays for itself so quickly.

Starting point is 02:32:57 How could you possibly not? I just, I can't fathom it. I think one of the challenges is that a lot of uh sports facilities are run by sports people and not business people and like to be clear i don't even mean like like like business business monsters you know like nickel and diming everything or whatever i just mean sort of just generally financial efficiencies and things or general efficiencies like i you know to me it's just uh it's just a no-brainer that okay you can get a decent racket for like 80 canadian dollars so that's like 60 us dollars your cost is less than that let's assume your

Starting point is 02:33:39 cost is like 45 or 40 bucks you can rent that racket out for like five dollars ten bucks so in in somewhere between four and ten rentals you have completely covered your cost on it and everything from there is brand new money you would have not obtained if you just if you didn't make that small investment that's just very obvious to me that you just need to do it. Yes, badminton has specific shoes, bots. They're for the court. They're court shoes. You don't want to scuff the... You wear them when you get a parking ticket. I was trying to figure out how to make that into a court joke and I couldn't. This man's a professional. Okay, I got one more maybe slightly longer one if you want or we'll save it for later. Let's see. Hi DLL. Apple's proprietary M chips are

Starting point is 02:34:34 very powerful and efficient. Why don't we see Intel and AMD start having RAM as part of the system on the chip? DDR5 should run much faster in this case oh man um with uh hold on eventually hold on no no no i'm sorry hold on hold on one big board i risk future this is the thing i found future risk is good yay uh crap i can't find it right now but if you actually if you look at the if you watch the video look at the if you watch the video we made recently called starting at is the biggest lie in tech or something like that there's an Asus laptop that I believe is either available now or will be available very soon that uses a very similar um ram on package asus laptop here i really would like to find it

Starting point is 02:35:28 dang it i do not want this future i want upgradability and interchangeability drives me mental i can't find it the point is it's coming it's coming now uh it's i mean it's and it's not just laptops like you know we know, we kind of... Oh, it's everything. Everything that's configurable. It's not even... Yeah, it's even in the data center where we're seeing chips that have HBM right on them. Well, that's not upgradable, right? Whether it's like NVIDIA's Grace Hopper

Starting point is 02:36:00 or Grace Super Chip or whatever it's called. I think Intel has some stuff coming. It's called. I think Intel has some stuff coming. It's coming. And the reality of it is, this is reflective of how the users of these products use them and not just something that's being pushed on us by the manufacturers. Like, I remember my mind being blown

Starting point is 02:36:24 the first time someone told me that in a data center like in a scale data center like that someone like a google might run or an amazon when a server is bad if a stick of ram goes bad it is not uncommon for them to rip that server out, put a new one in, and basically just send that to the, scrap the storage and put it in a heap for, you know, whoever our partner is who flips these things on eBay, get rid of it. It's gone, it's out. Whole server, not a drive, whole server.

Starting point is 02:36:59 And I was like, what? Shouldn't they just have an IT room where they fix them? And the answer was, at that scale, it's not a good use of time. It's a better use of time to just throw in a known good, brand new working server and not deal with that because they have enough to do. and not deal with that because they have enough to do. And the DIY-er in me just about died hearing that.

Starting point is 02:37:35 But then if that's true, if that's the case, at least in some places, at real scale, they do this with entire racks of kit, not just servers. We have this topic later in the doc, which is Intel's Meteor Lake launches in December, but people have linked articles talking about how it has LPDDR5 on chip, LPDDR5X. Intel demos Meteor Lake CPU with on package LPDDR5X is a Tom's Hardware article that I have not read through.

Starting point is 02:38:05 Yeah, there you go. There's one ASUS laptop that we pointed out in that video, though, that I believe is already using on-package memory. Or if not on-package, it's very, very close. And by doing that, they were able to run at much, much higher frequencies compared to running in a DIMM or even being soldered to the main board but farther away. Just the signal integrity is so much better. So, right, so back to the servers for a second. This coupling of CPU to memory is reflective, then, of the use case. I mean, most people treat their computer like a microwave and i know this is this is the kind of thing that i think is hard for us to wrap our brains around but for most

Starting point is 02:38:52 people when their computer is dead the computer is dead yeah yeah and you can take it to a repair shop but as we know if you've ever taken something to a repair shop, I mean, they want 60 bucks to put in a memory module, right? So imagine how much it costs if you want them to substantially repair the computer. It actually doesn't necessarily make financial sense to have that computer repaired by someone else. It makes sense for us because we're going to fix it ourselves, right? Are you trying to get something to jacob danes yeah the uh former leader of the pirate party of canada we're in the presence of royalty thanks jake um let's see how this goes is this to do with the buzzing are we like trying to figure it out right now or something what is

Starting point is 02:39:43 he even doing here what time is it i actually can't let you log into my phone i'm sorry oh there's like multiple not even work a lot of needs look how ready he is his mom watches this show that's the best part just wait for them with the onesie look how ready he is that took no time did i hit a nerve at all i was gonna say if you wanted to like text it you could do that i just can't let you on to the actual phone itself that is so funny to do something to it is there like uh do you need dev mode okay sounds good all right um anywho you don't have to do that what was i talking about right right. So this is reflective of the way that people are using this hardware anyway. Right, right, right.

Starting point is 02:40:29 Consumer technology, right? So people don't upgrade stuff. Yeah. They don't repair stuff because it's not cost effective. If you're going to spend $300 repairing a computer you bought for $1,000 five years ago, it's probably not even worth $300. And something else might fail now. And whether it would or wouldn't, i could see that being the mentality well if the if the transmission's going then probably the you know i'm gonna need to change all the belts soon anyway and then you know probably the the power windows are gonna start jamming realistically

Starting point is 02:41:01 you know at what point does whether it's a caristically, you know, at what point does, whether it's a car, a computer or whatever else, at what point does it just turn into a money pit and it's better to start over new? And I think that whether it's, um, whether it's true or not, a lot of people have that perception of computers. So if people are just going to go, Hey, my computer's slow, I need a new one anyway. Then I think from the manufacturer's standpoint they're sitting there going okay well this is slower which makes us less competitive it costs more which makes us less competitive and people aren't even asking for this why are we doing this and so you know in some cases I do think Apple does things that I then get very

Starting point is 02:41:41 frustrated by because they weren't necessary and the rest of the industry just goes there. But in this case, they're probably just ahead of the curve. We were headed there anyway. I mean, we've been talking about this ever since, what was it? Like fifth gen, I think. Fifth gen core. It was rumored that Intel would solder desktop CPUs to motherboards and we were, we were mad about it about it i mean i think justifiably so but it was it's been clear the writing's been on the wall for the better part of a decade now so maybe writing is on the wall in regards to who's going to purchase the thing which is going to drive engineering decisions at companies like this but i would say i still don't think it's necessarily a good thing um because someone could it eventually, even if the initial consumer

Starting point is 02:42:27 isn't going to repair it. No, you're right. It doesn't mean that someone couldn't repair it eventually. Tell me this. Okay. I'm totally pivoting a little bit here. In the world we live in today with security vulnerabilities being as impactful as they are and as widespread as they are,

Starting point is 02:42:46 should we be running 10-year-old processors? Or should they just go to the scrapper and retrieve the gold? I think for individual consumers, I think a lot of the CPU-level vulnerabilities that we've had are not really that big of a deal. To be completely honest. Yeah. Sure. Fair enough. I just.

Starting point is 02:43:08 But a lot of them have required targeted attacks, if I'm remembering correctly. Sure. Okay. So. Speaking of targeted attacks. I don't know. Did you know that we would need someone's permission to drive by their house with a password cracking server and break into their wi-fi because it's illegal?

Starting point is 02:43:29 Not surprised. Why'd I bring that up? I would have just done it anyways. No reason. I was... I didn't care. Anywho. If it was a really powerful password-cracking server. Oh, you're going to try to hit me?

Starting point is 02:43:51 I don't know. I just, people and people exist. And really powerful password-cracking servers exist from Camino, hypothetically. If a company called Camino existed, then maybe they would have a really powerful server that could be used for cracking passwords I thought this was I thought you're referencing something I had said no a bit ago but okay sounds like no oh we've got some good videos coming out like seriously we've got I reviewed one just before the land show checking out Laserdisc I had only had one experience with Laserdisc and it was extremely brief not even I didn't even get to

Starting point is 02:44:32 watch a whole movie so we got a have you ever tried Laserdisc no you know how big they are right aren't they like records yeah they're record size yeah but they look like giant CDs like novelty sizesized CDs. I've never actually seen one in person. And they have movies on them. I didn't know about them. Yeah, you can store like an hour of footage per side. So if you watch a two-hour movie, you actually have to get up in the middle and flip it. Lord of the Rings is like four discs.

Starting point is 02:44:58 Yeah, and they're double-sided. So it's two hours per disc, but it's one hour per side. So you're going to be getting up to flip your precious over pretty often, I think. Yeah, so Lord of the Rings, wait, Lord of the Rings The Two Towers runtime is two hours and 59 minutes. With that said, Lord of the Rings was never released on Laserdisc, so it's not an issue. No, I know, I just think it would be funny. Gone with the Wind sure was, and that's like a three-and-a-half-hour movie or something like that,

Starting point is 02:45:27 so you'd be getting up like four times to... or five times to flip the disc or whatever the math was. No, four times, I think. Anyway, there were... Just before anyone jumps in with the, you know, correction, there were more advanced players that had read heads on both sides, but you still had to get up and change the disc

Starting point is 02:45:46 if the movie's longer than two hours which a lot of movies are that's not the extended i'm trying to find the actual extended edition times but either way regardless it's long yeah so that video is coming out i think this weekend we have another one coming this weekend on RF blocking paint. So we found this site that kind of pedals in digital smog, like conspiracy cures and remedies. And they have RF blocking paint that you can use to paint your room to keep the, to keep the 5g out. Brilliant.

Starting point is 02:46:24 It's, I don't want to spoil too much but it works shockingly well really yeah actually kind of cool yeah so it's the first would you say this is the first legit use of the RF the EMC chamber like in video no no oh he's eating is there yeah he's having some dinner doesn't the wall block the 5g though no no the 5g millimeter wave yeah it could be blocked by a piece by this this garment um but a non-millimeter wave no no it can like pass through stuff is there yeah a bunch of people in chat are asking this too um it's not lead paint is it? Oh, yeah. Oh, oh Well, yeah, that's yeah. Yeah, like I took it and I brought it with me like this

Starting point is 02:47:12 Wow, no, it's not lead paint you I believed it. Oh man Come on extended times are three hours and 48 minutes for Fellowship, 3 hours and 55 minutes for Two Hours, and 4 hours and 23 minutes for Return of the King. Okay, so for Return of the King, hold on.

Starting point is 02:47:33 One side, two sides. Two hours. Three sides, four sides. So you have to get up. So you have to put it in. You have to get up to change it. That's one getting up. You have to get up to put in the second disc. You have to get up to change it. That's one getting up. You have to get up to put in the second disc,

Starting point is 02:47:46 you have to get up to flip the second disc, and you have to get up to put in the third disc. If it existed, you would have to get up four times during the movie, including, how long was it? Four hours and? Four hours and 23 minutes. Including one time, 23 minutes before the end of the movie to basically just watch the epilogue, essentially.

Starting point is 02:48:05 Yikes. That's pretty epic. Oh, we're supposed to do some more topics, eh? Wolfik says, here's a question. How many movies are even less than an hour? Oh, no. So you're going to be flipping no matter what you're watching. Unless you have one of the fancy dual head ones.

Starting point is 02:48:23 Oh. Whoa. So it doesn't even flip itself. It just starts playing. So there's like maybe a blip. And there were like for commercial, there were commercial solutions, like really advanced stuff where you had like changers. Remember CD changers?

Starting point is 02:48:36 Well, there were Laserdisc changers, but it was not for movies. It was for like karaoke. Yeah. One of the big benefits of Laserdisc was it was, to my knowledge, the earliest home format to support multiple audio tracks. My dad used to run it. Like, one of its major adoptions was karaoke, because you can have all of these tracks on one big disc, and then you want to go to the next one? Well, it's right here on the disc. Done. Instant. Every single time. You know? It's awesome. Plus video.

Starting point is 02:49:08 I'm pretty sure that came through the mic, yeah. Yeah, so yeah, for karaoke, they would have entire libraries, and it was so cool, because you could have the vocal track and the music track separated, which for karaoke, I think, has pretty obvious benefits.

Starting point is 02:49:25 Anywho, we should probably do another topic or two because we have sort of... Oh. Oh. What? I think we should probably do this topic. What topic? The one I highlighted.

Starting point is 02:49:38 I can't find it. You'll find it. I found it. Womp. Womp. I'm sad. I'm genuinely sad. We have made the difficult decision to not move forward with LTX 2024. There are four key reasons. One, the vast majority of our company does not focus on events. And while our core competencies like technology, media production do overlap somewhat with event running the vast

Starting point is 02:50:07 majority of our time and effort is spent on other things which means that we do not have well-established processes and workflows and running events at a large scale um requires well-established processes and workflows or you end up with a lot of inefficiency and you end up with a lot of stress. So that's the biggest reason, but also very closely related to the next reason, which is also the biggest reason, and that's crunch. While there is a lot of work that can be done in advance of an event like LTX, there's also an enormous amount of work that has to be done in the days or even the hours immediately before the doors open this puts a ton of strain on the entire team another big reason is cost um you know i want to be transparent with you guys that's that's that's the way we run this company that's the way we run this channel uh ltx 2023 was profitable which channel. LTX 2023 was profitable, which is good. But there's also an enormous opportunity cost compared to focusing on our regular activities, meaning that prioritizing LTX doesn't necessarily

Starting point is 02:51:14 make the most sense. And remember, part of that opportunity cost is not just money. Part of it is also process and quality of life for the team and all those things. I mean, I even said on WAN Show at LTX 23, when Luke asked me the hard question of, is it coming back? I talked about this. I talked about the crunch. I talked about how even if it does make money, that doesn't mean it necessarily makes sense. I asked him then because I was trying to get him to commit to it before he thought about it logically no I had already been thinking about it a lot yeah number four is it's

Starting point is 02:51:54 not all about money of course LTX was born out of a desire to serve the community and other creators but again it's clear that for the investment we made into LTX which was very, there are many other opportunities that we could pursue for collaborations and community engagement that might be more exciting and don't cause the same degree of strain for the people that work on the event. So that's what it pretty much comes down to. We do have some alternative things to be excited about. One of them is Whaleland. have some alternative things to be excited about. One of them is Whaleland. We are going to continue doing Whalelands, aiming for anywhere from 200 to 300 attendees per one. I'd like to do them more often than just once a year. Personally, I'd be down to do it once every couple months, once every

Starting point is 02:52:39 few months. I've had some people approach me internally and say, hey, they think that's too much and it won't be special anymore or something like that i i honestly think it'd be in some ways more special i think it'd be just such a such a just hang out um just kind of break the routine ltx was a really cool event for the fans as a whole but whale land Land I have more personal fun at. So and if we could do more Whale Lands and if we could bring some elements of LTX to Whale Land like maybe at a Whale Land we have a tech midway like we had at LTX or you know some of the the con evil you know games or things like that like I I think there's ways for us to make whale land really amazing you could still even potentially have like the the uh water

Starting point is 02:53:32 cooling educational workshop thing totally like if someone like a rod came up um you know there's no reason why we couldn't you know do something like that okay yeah at this whale land uh we're going to be doing Tube Bending 101. Yeah, and maybe it doesn't run the whole time because maybe Rod wants to play some games too. Yeah, and maybe someone like Rod actually gets to play games for a change. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:53:53 I'm not convinced he actually plays games. I think he just builds cool computers. No, I thought he was really into, wasn't it War Thunder or something? I don't know. I've never seen him actually play a game, but I've seen him build a lot of cool computers. I've seen him play games.

Starting point is 02:54:02 That's all I'm saying. That's all I'm saying. I've seen him play games. I've seen him do both. I've seen him build far more cool computers than play games seen him build a lot of cool computers. I've seen him play games. That's all I'm saying. That's all I'm saying. I've seen him play games. I've seen him do both. I've seen him build far more cool computers than play games. I saw him build a computer that was on fire. Let's see if he's in the chat. He's pretty sick.

Starting point is 02:54:11 He says, he says, he says yes. Yeah. I'm not sure what he's responding to exactly because of the chat delay. But definitely yes. My dad says there should be quarterly WhaleLands. Alright, alright, alright. Rob, I'm on it. We're working on it. We need a facility first geez excitement is high um so yeah i um this was uh this was a super emotional decision for i shouldn't say decision for me because i didn't make the

Starting point is 02:54:41 decision i was involved in the decision i I laid out my points I ultimately did advocate against future LTXs just for look I mean okay I probably maybe I'm speaking out of turn here um Colton basically said point blank if we're doing LTX again I can't do this. I don't blame him. It like, it's, it's, it's, it's brutal. And, and, and so it's like, it's not, it's not just like, I have, I have said the whole, so he, he was against, I was for, I have said the whole time though, that I'm happily voting for as someone who had nothing to do with any of the work that was involved in it. I think my vote was probably like the least valuable out of all of them because I was the least attached out of everyone I think genuinely. So it's easy for me to say

Starting point is 02:55:36 yeah we should keep doing it. I had some arguments which were like it was profitable and getting cons to a profitable point is very difficult and cons tend to have natural inherent growth and become very highly profitable on the high end. And I do think we were trending in that direction. And there were a lot of like financial efficiency things that we, I think, did quite poorly with this time around. We could have saved more money. We could have made more money both at the same time, all this kind of stuff but yeah all the work and stuff involved and and there is still the opportunity cost and min maxing the work and profit was never what ltx was about yeah and so i feel like you're right the con could have become a huge profit center you are right

Starting point is 02:56:20 but it wouldn't have been ltx anymore and that was a big part of i think it could still be i think it would be a very very difficult path to navigate yeah and potentially not worth it and maybe whale land is how we can keep that fun small i do i do like i i think it's pretty cool that there's a plan instead yeah oh oh yeah i think that's pretty cool yeah because just dropping it and be like guess we're never doing it again would kind of suck which i also didn't say yes i said we are not doing 2024 yeah um uh but like yeah whale land the fact that we will have a facility that we like know the people who own it means that the rate we'll be paying is i don't know nothing uh means that we can just we can price the tickets at something that we feel is is is the very least reasonable not what the market

Starting point is 02:57:21 will bear yeah but like reasonable but also you, we need to make sure the time makes sense for our team to put work into it and make it a really cool event. But not worry about pinching pennies so we can just make it a really cool event and just make it fun. Oh, Sean. Sorry, I'm going to derail slightly. I just Sean LMG in Float Plain Jet just spoke. I wasn't sure if I should or could name him yeah it was like two weeks ago i think yeah so he told me that i can i also asked if i could give the background there and he said yes oh sure this is whaler 99 from the forum yeah uh who's our new it person at

Starting point is 02:57:57 linus media group um not even that new anymore i mean hasn't he been here almost six months now or something somewhere around that yeah i've been here for a bit yeah it's been hard to keep that in yeah yeah I wanted to refer to him on the show as Whaler I don't want to mention that but yeah some people might actually know Sean if you've been around the forum especially in the earlier days of the forum if you if you've seen Whaler 99 around that's him so yeah i don't remember what i was referencing but i wasn't sure if i could name him and now i do know and that's that's sean so yeah yeah so he actually like reports to luke yeah so he's sort of used to as a mod back in

Starting point is 02:58:40 like 2012 or whatever he first started working with the first mods. Yes, like freaking He's like actually one of the ogist Forum people ever yeah, but yeah, he just said whaler land. Yeah Yeah, so he'll be he'll be probably helping us out with getting that set up once he gets his poor Like head out from under the water of like our it tech you're gonna you're gonna like the new disaster recovery doc oh yeah it's like wicked how many how many pages is it he's watching 200 it's more than 200 right yeah yeah what yeah it's for everything oh is. Is there a disaster?

Starting point is 02:59:26 Solutions. What happens if WAN show goes down? It's very clickable, so you can jump to different parts of it and all that kind of stuff. 210. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Hell yeah. Heck yeah.

Starting point is 02:59:41 Exciting. Yeah, it's cool. It's good. Anyways. Yeah, so that's sad but there is the good news of uh whale lands more and more awesomer but i'm sure there'll be more details on that in the future there was a couple comments from some of the people who worked on the mom and pop computer shop video by the way uh tanner who uh who helped coordinate everything, is like the writer for the video, said that the store owner, Keith, was even funnier off camera.

Starting point is 03:00:09 This is so true. That's one of the things that drives me crazy when I'm working with amateur talents, is they'll say something hilarious. They'll be like, okay, do that again. And like, it's never quite the same. Yeah, like that's something that takes a lot of practice. And there's something about just having a camera pointed at you.

Starting point is 03:00:30 It just kind of stiffens you up, right? It makes you feel unnatural. And overall, he did great. But yeah, he was even funnier off camera. And Hoffman, who was the editor for it, I cannot believe how fast Hoffman turned that around. That was like a two-day edit. Whoa.

Starting point is 03:00:45 Yeah, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

Starting point is 03:00:46 no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

Starting point is 03:01:00 no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no of last week i i don't i don't remember exactly when we shot it uh crud uh it should be on my

Starting point is 03:01:09 should be on my calendar i think it was i think it was thursday of last week surely it wasn't friday no it couldn't have been friday uh yeah i think it was thursday of last week definitely wasn't tuesday and we released it like that weekend uh it must have been because the sponsor asked for a rush edit on it or something like that because we told keith too we were like hey yeah it's going to be probably a few weeks because that's generally how long something like that would take to make its way through the queue but uh yeah hoffman said the footage was extremely hard to condense because there was so much good material and there was a lot more items that we didn't show we typically run audio continuously and keith was so funny that occasionally while reviewing the audio you'd hear tons of laughter followed by david hurriedly trying to get the camera running

Starting point is 03:01:53 passing pedestrians kept trying to poke their heads in to figure out what all the chaos was about we also filmed the back of the shot of the back of the shop but wound up cutting it for time uh tander had a big list of games but linus kept making up his own rules on the fly. Okay, that's true. I mean, that sounds like a Linus thing. Yeah, it sounds like a Linus thing too. Discussion question was, what were the best parts of the shoot that didn't make the cut?

Starting point is 03:02:17 I think some of the best ones were some of the haggling between me and Keith. There were some, I think in the final cut of the video hoffman was going for a bit of a tone a tone of you know me mostly going along with everything but there were definitely times when i did push back more and and we did negotiate a bit more i think hoffman did a great job though of keeping in all the most important gambling. Because that was by far, when I was watching it. I don't even want to spoil it.

Starting point is 03:02:50 But the one big, really impactful role was like... The critical role. Yeah, there you go. I'm going to be completely forthright with you. There's only two times in my life that I have fainted or almost fainted both while being both while having blood drawn because I am what's apparently the technical term is a fainter which basically means that when your skin is punctured your body immediately goes into protective I must

Starting point is 03:03:24 not lose all my blood mode and all the blood drains from your extremities and is like i'm gonna stay here now um so when when i'm getting blood drawn like my my hands go ice cold and they'll be like in there with the needle and it doesn't bother me i don't care but it But it's like, they're like, hello? Like, it just stops flowing. There's no pressure. They just can't get it. Wow.

Starting point is 03:03:52 I do not have that problem. Yeah. So anyway, I found this out when I was really sick with something. It was like back in the swine flu days or something stupid like that, but very pre-COVID. The old, you know, flu everyone was worried about. So it was back in those days. And I was like quite sick like in a weakened state already and I had to get blood drawn and I'm sitting in the chair and I start to kind of move and the nurse poor thing she must have been about 85

Starting point is 03:04:15 pounds soaking wet basically goes whoa whoa I can't hold you you put your head between your knees like and I'm like okay okay and i managed to avoid passing out and then the second time it was for some life insurance thing they had to draw blood from me and um i started to go dark and i like went over to i had my like love sack like giant beanbag pillow in the in the living room and i was in the dining room at the old place and i like went down and went on to the love sack thing and i like closed my eyes for a second then I was totally fine I talked to the guy and he goes you've been passed out for five minutes and I was like oh really neat didn't know that so that's the one time I fainted during this shoot I was in a near fainted state three times from just stress it was very intense there was a

Starting point is 03:05:13 more probably more physical there was more physical activity than you guys probably realized like watching a video like that because i'm climbing up on counters like i'm i'm doing a lot it's it's a different i had one of our one of our uh subjects for um the tech upgrade series that we do someone internal who sees a lot of footage what's up oh there's an ant huge one see you see you later buddy um who sees a lot of footage but doesn't participate in a lot of videos messaged me afterward after we did theirs and basically goes i don't know how you do this every day like i am wiped i i just i can't it's draining yeah it's it's draining on a lot of levels being on is is is quite exhausting and uh

Starting point is 03:06:02 you know when you're working in an unfamiliar environment with unfamiliar people, a big part of the host's job is to make everyone else around them look good and look really talented as a host. And so it's a lot of things for me to keep track of when I'm trying to drive a video like that forward. And then the other big one is

Starting point is 03:06:21 I didn't even know how much the sponsorship was. I had actually no idea so I had no idea what the running total was because I had a lot of other things to keep track of and so particularly um you know when I would stop and breathe for a second I don't think I drank any water that day because I like forgot my water bottle or something. So that was probably a major factor, but there were multiple times that day when I was just like, okay, is this shoot going? Okay. Is everything okay?

Starting point is 03:06:51 Uh, what is happening right now? And the one time I actually started to feel blackness come in around my vision was right before the throw. Cause I was just, I was so stressed like i i don't i think you know that i'm not much of a gambler no one in the hand is worth 500 in the bush for me yeah i i'm not that kind of person and so i i played a bit of a character in this video you know the the gambling man i want to roll for it yeah yeah

Starting point is 03:07:25 but that is not my personality at all I think that's something a lot of people don't realize is from one video to the next sometimes I'll be playing a slightly different character because that's what the content calls for um and so I played you did it well I played the like cavalier gambling man but that is extremely stressful for me i did notice that through the course of the video the games uh start becoming more and more skill based oh that wasn't intentional actually i'm sure it wasn't but i also fully believe that your brain in the moment was like this game sounds more fun I mean skill didn't work out great for me at the beginning you saw that putt yeah, I mean I Just looked hard to do you saw the pot you saw the darts, so just because I didn't necessarily win

Starting point is 03:08:24 You know what didn't make it into the edit was the pre throw herow he wanted a practice throw i nailed the practice throw and then freaking flubbed you guys looked so bad okay if you tried that dart set though you'd understand that's what i assumed while i was watching yeah they were dollars like this is astronomically bad they were dollar store darts. Yes. They had no weight. Not that I'm, like, I'm bad at darts, but, like... I know. I just... You had to whip them, though. Yeah, watching you guys do it, I was like, what? There was no weight to them.

Starting point is 03:08:53 Keith, I think it took him three times to get it to stick in. But you didn't see that part, because that wasn't in the final cut. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Man, that video was, uh... It was a good video. People should watch it. Yeah. It was that video was... It was a good video. People should watch it. Yeah.

Starting point is 03:09:06 It was really stressful, though. Scrapyard Wars had better darts? We had darts in Scrapyard Wars? Maybe. We've done a lot. Seems like the kind of thing we would do. Channel Superfun, I think, had darts at some point. Oh, yeah.

Starting point is 03:09:17 Definitely had lawn darts. Yeah. Do we have more topics? We kind of already touched on Meteor Lake. We kind of already touched on Mirror lake we kind of like human trials yeah um the rog ally base model is coming it's much slower it uses the z1 instead of the z1 extreme uh i'm i'm planning to do a review because i've been using my rog ally a lot oh good oh this is really frustrating uh youtube made a made a policy change allowing channels to change their names um without changing the display name on their google

Starting point is 03:09:59 account so hackers are now able to easily disguise what channel they've taken over, frustrating attempts to identify and contact the channel's true owner. While changing a channel's name will remove any verified badge associated with the channel, forcing creators to apply for reinstatement. I don't know. That's a sentence fragment. That's okay. We tried. However, not all valuable hacking targets have verification badges, such as strategy game streamer DasTactic tactic whose channel was hacked and so thoroughly changed that it was only identifiable because his store was still up das tactic is back in charge of his account now following assistance from youtube one challenge was trying to communicate with his community um because so much of his online life

Starting point is 03:10:40 was connected into his hacked google account though thankfully not his twitter or discord this is wild so this is what a channel that's hacked could look like now just completely unidentifiable unbelievable that's rough could google not at least not make things worse i feel like this is one of those like one hand not talking to the other situations and that's probably the most optimistic possible interpretation of what happened with unity who has walked back their pricing scheme yeah they released a public apology and made significant revisions to their proposed pricing changes uh the recap is last week they announced a 20 cent per download fee on unity based games that had made over 200 000 in revenue a year and had over 200 000 lifetime downloads in response many indie

Starting point is 03:11:30 developers threatened to withdraw their games from sale and migrate to another engine for current and future projects their new pricing plan doubles the minimum threshold on revenue before charges uh from doubles the minimum threshold before charges from 200k to 1 million a year. That's not double, but... Yeah, I read that in the pre-show and I was like, what? Okay, well, basically it ups the minimum threshold for revenue. Games published in the past under a previous version of Unity will

Starting point is 03:11:56 no longer be subject to the new fee, which is how it should have worked in the first place. How can you possibly unilaterally change a deal? That's not how that works. Developers will also be able to choose between the fee or paying 2.5% of their gross revenue instead. Last week, Unity claimed that they would assess how much developers owed through an unclear proprietary method

Starting point is 03:12:14 leading to speculation of potential DRM and security issues. Now, Unity says they will allow developers to self-report these numbers. I just hope they follow through on all of this and we don't see any of that same kind of behavior again. Is it time to switch to Wenshow After Dark, Dan? Oh, okay. Let's do it.

Starting point is 03:12:36 Just walks past the camera. What a pro. I've got more efficient at it. Okay. Search messages. I'm starting at the top of potential. Sure. I mean, we can probably just answer most of them. There's not too many this week. Okay. Yeah, the potential ones are more like directed at you guys personally, I think.

Starting point is 03:13:01 Okay, let's start at the top here. Heyo just donated a bunch of my icebreakers because I couldn't stand how itchy they were on my smooth, supple skin. On a scale of one to sandpaper, what's the itch factor on the LTT Merino Tees? I'm happy with them for Merino Tees, but they are still Merino Tees. If you like soft fabric on your smooth, supple skin, just get our regular tees but they are still merino tees if you like soft fabric on your smooth supple skin

Starting point is 03:13:27 just get our regular tees they're great or better yet pick up one of the rgb ones that is probably the softest shirt on the store and it's available in more than one color now so yeah just go go go get that just load up those they're they are by far that here i should probably just oh man i just realized we never even showed the photos for the for the onesie it's always fun seeing the team pose the charade from the business team sarah from the design team alamade from the fashion team dennis from the bothering me team more sarah Dennis from the Bothering Me team. Morsara. Lots of fun. Adam.

Starting point is 03:14:11 What is this? A group? Oh, we do group photos now. Okay. Got a bunch of the business team. That's actually really cool. It looks like a family photo. That's awesome.

Starting point is 03:14:26 So yeah, the onesies, the reversible bomber jackets from last week, and the merino t-shirt from last week. So the one you want, if you want just like the softest, softest thing for your supple skin is this one. Oh, I don't see different colors. Oh, are there? Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah, here it is in gray. So yeah, it's this shirt. It's so comfy. Okay. It's so comfy. Okay. Are you aware of any tech projects similar to VLC that have chosen to remain independent despite receiving numerous purchase offers and strictly refrain from tracking any data from their users? Honestly, it's not something that I personally pay close enough attention to. No, me neither.

Starting point is 03:15:05 I mean, I would imagine like OBS has probably received offers for purchase and so far as well they remain completely independent and don't appear to be doing any kind of tracking of anyone's use even though like man the amount that would be kind of very valuable the kind of data that flows through obs from the streamers themselves from any of the any of the things that are hooked into it like every merch message no no it doesn't actually because that's just a um like essentially like a web capture window or something like that right okay it's literally just a browser source yeah okay yeah but I'm sure that they could I'm sure that if they were um evil enough they could engineer OBS in such a way that the only way to hook something in would have to make it like plain text readable to OBS or something

Starting point is 03:15:48 I don't know but no OBS just is cute hey Linus I see you flipping around a precision screwdriver care to show it off yeah I showed it earlier in the show so you might just have to rewind that might have been the pre-show actually oh oh well then you might just have to get Floatplane and watch it there. Oh, okay. Get Floatplane. Okay, no, hold on, hold on. Get outta here. I, uh...

Starting point is 03:16:15 I, er, uh... Is it in your other pants? I appear to have misplaced it. I'm sorry. You will definitely see more of it in the future. Good morning DLL. Back when Alex had his tech upgrade he mentioned that you've got an order for five million face shields from the Canadian government. Is that a story you can share? I don't know that it was a formal order so much as it was that they were they wanted as many of them as they could get from anywhere and we had publicly offered to help and i think they misinterpreted our manufacturing capacity with those prusa printers

Starting point is 03:16:51 that hey again you know we haven't forgotten shout out prusa for sending over i think they just overestimated our capacity for creating face shields and, you know, we basically clarified and we sent as much as we could. And then we both moved on. Hi, DLL. I'm a future teacher and was wondering if there is any tech in its early days that you think will become the norm for schools in the future that I should learn now? I would basically just keep my eye out on anything that your students are using. Like it's not even as, it's not even, in my opinion, it's not even the like augmented reality and AI that is going to change things so much, or that will be as day-to-day relevant to you as just things like understanding what Discord is and how it works and how they're

Starting point is 03:17:46 communicating with each other and and interacting i think that um it's been a huge advantage for me and yvonne as parents to not just know how our kids are communicating but introduce them to things like discord where we can be in the discords they're in and keep an eye on what they're talking to their friends about obviously that's going to be less relevant as they get into their teenage years, but for young kids, keeping them safe online can be a real challenge if you don't know what they're doing. But I mean, obviously that's not necessarily a teacher's role, but I still think that understanding, meeting the kids where they are is more important than just trying, is more effective than trying to bring them

Starting point is 03:18:28 to where you are. Hello, my dudes. Will the Noctua Edition screwdriver be available through Noctua in Europe? I believe that is the plan. So I think their plan is to, I have no idea how the finances would work for this, think i think their plan is to i have no idea how the finances would work for this but i think their plan is to essentially carry the screwdriver however that would look but you'd have to honestly the better way to get information about that would be to ask

Starting point is 03:18:56 noctua because they know better than i do my husband has watched you since the ncix days what is your opinion on tech leaks? Do you think it's affecting buying of new tech? Absolutely. I mean, I think that leaks can impact the demand for the older item. I think that leaks can do a lot to generate hype and generate additional news cycles that can amplify the news around an upcoming launch. Sometimes I really do feel like leaks are probably intentional. Other times they really do look too early, too much impact on the old product to be worth it, and they do look unintentional. Sometimes I feel like leaks are, no matter the cost in terms of your own product lineup, just to damage someone else, just to make sure that there's absolutely no air for...

Starting point is 03:19:50 Oh, there's hype growing for somebody else? Yeah, let's leak something that's coming up. I think it can be very tactical. I also think it can be very accidental. I think it can just be passionate people who are excited to talk about what they're working on in a bar and being overheard. It's just part of the territory okay let's move into some potentials

Starting point is 03:20:17 um let's see i just curated one of them out oh okay i will read that one instead um hey dl it's the Batman bundle. The Arkham Asylum one? Yeah. Yeah, that was a good bundle. But there were some really wild bundles before. I got Half-life 2 with my all-in-one to 9600 pro which was hilarious because by the time the game came out i had already upgraded my gpu there was some there's a while there where there was bundles of like four games

Starting point is 03:20:58 and i think it got kind of crazy i think anyone who got half-life 2 got the whole orange box I think anyone who got Half-Life 2 got the whole orange box. Whoa. That's pretty sick. I don't actually remember. Hold on. Radeon 9800 Half-Life 2 bundle orange box. Am I going to be able to find an article about this? I'm pretty sure I got an orange box code.

Starting point is 03:21:25 ATI offers bonus to Half-Life 2 bundle buyers. Okay, here we go. Here we go. You got classic Valve shooters until the Half-Life sequel shipped. So maybe it wasn't orange box. Oh, you got the Valve Premier Pack. Okay, that's I think it. That's pretty crazy.

Starting point is 03:21:45 But then didn't Half-Life 2 come with Orange Box? I don't remember. Orange Box launched after Half-Life 2. And that included Portal and things like that too, right? Did it? Portal, TF2. That was way later than... Okay, okay, yeah, maybe I'm mistaken.

Starting point is 03:22:03 Half-Life 2 was something like 2004. So maybe it was just the older games that came with it. But there were definitely times when, aside from official bundles, stores would have, like, because it used to be physical codes, right? So they would have a ton of codes left over, and they would slip...

Starting point is 03:22:18 Just have a stack of them. They'd slip in, like, they'd pile up bundles on products they needed to move. So I had taken advantage of stuff like that in the past as well. Yeah. Man, up bundles on products they needed to move so i i had taken advantage of stuff like that in the past as well yeah man game bundles used to be so sick so sick now they're just like yeah yeah let's see what canceled video project do you must most wish you could have completed and released and why did you have to cancel it um we don't cancel that much so much as we kind of reach a non-viable point and and don't move forward with it

Starting point is 03:22:53 uh i'd say one that i'm i'm really disappointed we didn't do was the rackification of the land center upstairs because our intention was to have that be kind of like what I did with the land center at my house but run like a big radiator to the roof and bring back whole room water cooling at one point I had also wanted to plumb water um water cooling into the editing den and have all the editing machines water cooled off of you know just like plumbing from the walls just like we did in whole room water cooling with the layout they have now it wouldn't make any sense anyway because they're all over the room instead of just down the two walls but i think that would have been super cool

Starting point is 03:23:34 to like bring back whole room water cooling in a big way i'd like to set up something like that at the lab so they just have water available to cool things when they need it but also i think they probably don't need it like quick disconnects on the desk yeah that would be sick yeah uh okay uh hey ldl linus a couple weeks ago you mentioned that you're more of a textured eater what is your fate what is your opinion on ben and jerry's ice cream uh i am too cheap to buy really expensive ice cream. So I curated this because I was like, he's probably never even had it. I have tried it. Okay.

Starting point is 03:24:12 I don't remember. Like I've probably tried Ben and Jerry's once in my life or something. Yeah. It's like a hundred grams. You can get a kilogram at the superstore for the same price. I just, I don't know. I can't, the maximum for me is i'll spring for like briars but like as soon as you get into like haagen-dazs territory briars french vanilla is

Starting point is 03:24:31 like yeah it's pretty good it's pretty good it's pretty all right yeah i mean honestly my guilty pleasure ice cream is just like no name neapolitan anyway so i'm clearly a philistine. It's like five dollars for a bathtub. Yeah exactly. Hey LLD was wondering what is all your personal favorite LTD store hoodie or jacket that you've ever done? Personally probably the short-circuit one. PS bring back the Swacket. Favorite we've ever done. I mine man i really like the tie-dye ltx 23 hoodie it's really good it's really good i am i am somewhat particular about i'm not a huge fan i like zippers yep yeah but it's it's really good though yeah that's the one in my backpack right now like that's the one i'm dailying right now what about you this guy really that's not really a hoodie but yeah it's it's a jacket jacket

Starting point is 03:25:31 oh okay that's fair yeah that's a it's a really nice jacket it's like a really nice jacket i've shown it to people that are are like clothing people like and i've like just put it on i'm not gonna tell you like where i got it from or anything just put it what do you think because like you don't expect me to have super nice clothes out of nowhere um so i just try it and they're like wow this is like actually really good and they're like checking out what what is it like wall lttstore.com baby i had i was at the gym yesterday and i i went uh to go into the pool after working out and i put my water bottle down on like where you put your stuff when you're changing to get into the pool and some dude walked by and was like that's a sick water bottle i was like thanks man and he's like is it a whatever and said some brand i don't remember what it was i was like no it's a uh it's an ltt

Starting point is 03:26:25 and he was like huh so you're saying we need to invest more marketing in our like top of funnel awareness uh maybe maybe yeah yeah all right yeah you might you might sell some water bottles to gym bros if they even know what it is excellent he's like's like, it's huge. That's awesome. Yeah. It's like, yeah, it's sweet. Hey, DLL, I know you play Supreme Commander Forged Alliance forever, but what is your opinion on Supreme Commander 2, the gameplay and story? I never played Subcom 2 because I heard it's bad.

Starting point is 03:27:01 So I was a sheeple and I didn't play it. Sorry. Have things felt different for you or your staff now that it's been a month since the week uh plus break have you realized noticeable improvements from your new processes and content schedule i don't know why doesn't the team answer that there's a couple members of the team i don't know if Luke's going to have a lot to contribute to that. Actually, I don't know if Dan's going to have a lot to contribute to that. Okay, I guess I'll talk. I don't think you're wrong.

Starting point is 03:27:34 I don't think you're wrong. It's just a hilarious path to go down. That is exactly what my response was going to be, too. Like, nothing changed. Nobody talked to me as much i was more productive yeah yeah yeah um i think that there's been changes but i also think that the public perception of the changes has been much greater than what the actual changes have been i think not to diminish the effort that's gone into the changes. But we were putting in a lot of effort before.

Starting point is 03:28:05 I think that's one of the things that people are kind of... There was a lot of changes that were asked for that were already in motion. It's like, hey, you guys are not doing good enough. Hey, you're like working the team too hard. And I'm sitting here going, okay, which one is it? Yes, we're working really hard and we're trying to do better. And that was already what we were trying to do. And, you know, it's obvious that there were some communication breakdowns that were taking place. I think that's the biggest thing is we,

Starting point is 03:28:33 we broke down a lot of barriers in inter-team meetings and we've, we've added a lot of. I'll also throw in here. We absolutely have our communications problems and i know of a few that i'm working on as well yeah um but if you ask like anyone that works at any company of a size that's more than like five people and you ask them like what problems does your company have oh communication sucks it's like yeah things happen and i think that there are a lot of things that we can do better yeah of course there are for sure i'm not trying to like you know dodge that there's things no and and that's the thing is like we've i don't think we've ever pretended that we operate perfectly smoothly internally i think that one of the

Starting point is 03:29:21 things that we do do sometimes to our detriment is we are extremely transparent about our problems. And so, you know, yeah, here I am. Here I am talking about, yeah, some of the challenges and some of the things that we're doing to improve. And I'm going to tell you guys up front, like, it's not perfect. It's going to take a lot of time. The first week back, honestly, I think we had some of the most disastrous shoots that we had had in many, many months. And not because we didn't have enough time, just because we had a lot of new processes to work out. And it is not simple trying to do what we do, believe it or not.

Starting point is 03:30:01 If you know the solution, and it's super easy and obvious, you don't know the solution. It's not that easy. It's not that obvious. There's a lot of moving parts. And, um, you know, it's, it's one of those things that, um, you know, I feel like people have to, people have to experience, people have to live to understand. And so I don't expect everybody to understand it. But overall, I think that, you know, it's been motivating. I think it's been exciting for people to spend more time talking to other people, which has been a personal source of frustration because that's something that I had been advocating for a lot. And then all of a sudden now it's everybody's idea. So we're going to do it's like okay sure it's like you should be talking to this team regularly it's like okay but we need like a week shut down in order to like internalize that i'm like okay

Starting point is 03:31:02 and you know what you know part of it too is that it's, yeah, it's not that simple. It's just like a lot of the time. Sometimes it's process change. Not just, I want to do this. Yeah. And sometimes someone can say something. You go, yeah, that's a good idea.

Starting point is 03:31:14 And I should do that. But until there's like a, hey, you know, wake up moment. You're just, you kind of keep doing things the way that you did them before. Right. And that's. Especially when people are heavily tasked yeah exactly and I'm and

Starting point is 03:31:28 I've never claimed that we don't work hard never we do so I'm optimistic that's what I'll say yeah summary yeah yeah there's got a couple of potentials left you guys want to answer that or should we curate them? Let me have a look. Oh well we got to curate this one. Hey DLL, my hubby and I were in the LTX vid as two gamers one CPU. Nice! The PC is a windowless... is in... is in a windowless basement room with our server and run through a thunderbolt cable back to the gaming room any tech tips on cooling without a pool yeah so um believe it or not that stupid radiator setup that we had in one of the parts of whole pool water cooling uh where alex and i put one radiator outside.

Starting point is 03:32:26 It's just a simple car radiator with a random Walmart box fan on it, and then one inside, and then a tube running through the wall. That actually worked probably better to cool the room than what I just did, bearing in mind, of course, that what I just did added net new heat that it then removed, so it effectively did nothing but just taking that radiator and cooling it outside and then heating so heating the water inside with the hot air and then dissipating that heat to the outside

Starting point is 03:32:55 worked pretty great and i actually had kind of thought at that time you know maybe this whole pool water cooling thing is kind of stupid and i should just do this because with whole pool water cooling i can't go subambient but with a waterproof fan and some kind of misting system i could so i could use like face i could use evaporative cooling as long as uh as long as water is plentiful in your area or something like that. You could use evaporative cooling to actually go sub-ambient on that radiator outside. So, I mean, essentially it's always just how to move heat. And water tubes are a really effective way to move heat.

Starting point is 03:33:41 However, I will say this. I don't think that any of this is going to be cost effective. So I would only do it if it's for fun. Uh, hi team, please tell a story about a time you have felt like a Sims character. I'm not going to lie. I don't, I don't really get this. Why'd you curate it then? I didn't. I didn't curate it. Dan did. Oh, okay. I watched it happen. Fine. Okay, then go, Dan.

Starting point is 03:34:07 Yeah. I don't know. Yeah, bright guy. Right now? Now, why does he have so much light? We don't have any light. Yeah. I got three mortars just pointing at my face.

Starting point is 03:34:17 I can see nothing. I don't know. It was one that was an incoming. I thought you guys might be able to answer it. So what was that? I don't... Are you, like, controlled by another entity. All the time?

Starting point is 03:34:32 Constantly? Okay, come back, Dan. Go to work. And you're gone. Go to work. And you're here. And you're gone. Career.

Starting point is 03:34:39 I always say that I'm piloting a toddler that I can't control. Go to gym. Strength increase. Yeah, there you go. Eat. I'm controlled by societal pressures. Play chess. Intelligence increase. Always fighting back. Last one I've got here. Hello from

Starting point is 03:34:54 Bowling Green, Ohio. Linus, have you liked the GR Corolla so far? And what are your thoughts on Toyota's six-speed intelligent manual transition? Excuse me. I don't have a lot of thoughts on intelligent transmissions because I'm really not much of a car guy, but the GR was a blast. I didn't end up buying one. We only played around with the press car and did the review.

Starting point is 03:35:16 I can't justify having more than one car, and I'm not going to swap out the Taycan for it, given that I already have the Taycan. If they were both on the market today and I was shopping again, it's pretty fun. I don't know that I would spring for the stupid mobile, but yeah, I don't have any thoughts on the transmission, I'm afraid. Oh, okay. Last one. Timestamp guy here. Okay, I can't validate that, but they say they are. I've been designing a WAN show-themed LTT screwdriver holder capable of housing all the bits. Thoughts on selling 3D printed projects on LTT store?

Starting point is 03:35:53 I'd actually rather not sell them. I mean, if there's marketplaces where you can list it, I think there's a pretty vibrant... Do it up. Yeah, there's already some out there. Yeah. LTT, hold on. I think there's a surprisingly vibrant accessory ecosystem. There's been already some out there. Yeah. Hold on. I think there's like a surprisingly vibrant accessory ecosystem.

Starting point is 03:36:08 There's been some cool ones posted on the Reddits. And I think in some cases that was people just showing off their cool project. And in other cases that was people stealth advertising their Etsys and stuff. Because this is definitely a thing. Oh, wow. Yeah. Like, check this out. Oh, wow. Yeah. Like, check this out. Oh, wait.

Starting point is 03:36:25 No, not this one. Stop. We're off the rails here. Yep. LTT screwdriver carrying case. LTT stubby screwdriver case. Like, this is 1,000% a thing. Yeah, cool, right?

Starting point is 03:36:47 Neat. We are going to probably do our own at some point but you know for the time being it's definitely something that you can get and it's something that you know we are we are at the very least accepting of you know i don't think that we're going to be going out of our way to you know promote this because we might have our own competing products at some point or whatever else. We don't want to rug pull anybody but we're also not going to be upset about

Starting point is 03:37:13 anything. We think this is overall really cool. Yeah, really, really, really cool. And I think that's it. That's it. Thanks for tuning in you guys we'll see you again next week same bad time same bad channel if you're just tuning in

Starting point is 03:37:30 pretty late in the show here just bear in mind the VOD might take a little bit because the show was interrupted so we have to take those two pieces of the VOD splice them together then upload and process so it's going to take some time especially on floatplane and that's actually like a lot of time okay

Starting point is 03:37:44 see ya bye

The WAN Show - I'm Furious But NVIDIA Is Right - WAN Show September 22, 2023

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