The WAN Show - Intel... What the HECK are you DOING?? - WAN Show June 26, 2020

Starting point is 00:00:00 With Uber Reserve, you can book your Uber ride in advance. 90 days in advance. Perfect for all you forward thinkers and planning gurus. Reserve your Uber ride up to 90 days in advance. Uber Reserve. See Uber app for details. And welcome to the WAN Show, ladies and gentlemen. Second time time's a charm we've got a lot of great topics for you guys today and we're going to do our best as we go through them to sound like we're just learning about them for the first time i mean something i found out about really and

Starting point is 00:00:36 legitimately not that long ago was doctor disrespect allegedly has been banned permanently from twitch this is something that's not in our doc. The earliest reference I can find to it is from about four or five hours ago. So this is very much breaking news. And we can talk a little bit about what the heck might be going on on Twitch right now because they are having a bit of a PR crisis at this moment in time. In other news, oh yeah, more streaming news. Microsoft Axis Mixer joins the dark side. Excuse me, sorry. Facebook Gaming joins forces with Facebook Gaming

Starting point is 00:01:22 and there's a whole bunch of implications there. And Luke, I know you love the cpu topics i know you love it you love it tell us about tell us about the cpu news this one this one in particular is actually quite fantastic intel claims superior gaming performance over amd oh yeah yeah that makes, wait, wait, wait for it. Better graphics card for the comparison. Oh, no. No. Okay.

Starting point is 00:01:54 I kind of want to jump in right now and just get started on this topic. Can I just start on this topic? We got an intro roll, man. No, no. I want to start this topic. Also, Microsoft permanently closed all physical retail stores. All of them? All of them. All the retail stores. You have got to be kidding me

Starting point is 00:02:06 okay we say it a lot we say it a lot it's gonna be a great show today guys we got a lot to talk about today guys sometimes we lie sometimes we got nothing today we got everything there's some hot fire this week okay it's fire it's fire ladies and gentlemen all right we're gonna let's just let's roll the intro and then i want to dive right into that intel thing because it is just brutal rolling that intro there we go oh yeah right we gotta have some sponsors today uh uh but uh uh uh moss backpacks vesti footwear and anchor with the power expand power expand, that really sounds a lot dirtier than it probably is. Power expand.

Starting point is 00:03:09 Whoa, it's hot. Hot just like the news this week. Okay, why don't we jump into this Intel thing right off the hop here. They should enlarge that product stack and get like the power extend. Power extend. The power girththinator the power spreader oh oh wow that is very very uncomfortable luke thank you for that mental image schwelmo 92 posted this on the forum and And here's the story. Underscore Rogame, a respected hardware leaker, has just shared some slides from Intel comparing gaming performance of their 10th generation 10750H mobile processors

Starting point is 00:03:54 in an MSI GL65 laptop versus the AMD Zen 2 R9 4900HS mobile processor in the Zephyrus G14. And if you guys remember from our review of the Zephyrus G14. And if you guys remember from our review of the Zephyrus G14, the Ryzen 9 4900HS is, I think the HS is short for hot stuff because that thing is freaking fire. Not that it actually runs hot. It actually runs really cool. Its performance is just absolutely outstanding. It is right up there when it comes to gaming with amd's desktop flagship processors um however intel saw fit to put amd in their place and the slides uh reference here hold on let's see if we can let's see if we can pull these

Starting point is 00:04:42 slides up here because this is high freaking larious. Display capture. Let's go ahead and not do that, actually. That's not what I meant to do. You know what? That actually worked out really great. Fine. Sure. Let's roll with it. Here we go. Superior gaming performance for gamers with 10th gen core platforms at a lower price so base is sort of what they um the terminology they use to describe team red over here and then up to 20 better up to 22 better up to 18 better up to 20% better. Up to 23% better. And not to forget, up to 23% better again.

Starting point is 00:05:37 Except we've got a small problem here. If we just use our technology to enhance. Enhance. Enhance. Enhance. Enhance. Enhance, enhance, enhance, enhance, enhance, enhance. Okay, have we enhanced it enough? Man, this page does not enhance them very well. Here, let's enhance a different way.

Starting point is 00:05:57 Hold on, we've got more enhancing to do. Let me just enhance this. Hold on, give me a second here, ladies and gentlemen. There we go. It's kind of weird while you're busy enhancing. Yeah, yeah. They used little laptops to display this information but they look like macbooks oh is that later on in the thing uh we'll have to get to that later give me give me oh oh that's cute oh they're little laptops i thought they just had lines under them that's adorable no

Starting point is 00:06:20 all right so this is interesting we've got a core i7-10750H right there. Got some base clocks and boost clocks. Got some core counts and TDP ratings and cool stuff like that. Oh, yeah, it's a 10-watt lower TDP for the AMD processor. That's interesting. Also noted in here is NVIDIA RTX 2060 and NVIDIA RTX 2060 Max-Q. Now, that wouldn't normally be as big of a problem, except that NVIDIA has gone and created some very, very confusion-y confusion

Starting point is 00:06:53 around their RTX 2060 because they went and did a little thing where they refreshed their 2070 and 2080 mobile GPUs with super variants. And so it was very clear that those had better performance than the 2070 and 2080 that they replaced. But then at the same time, they went and replaced their 2060 without calling it a super, but they made the performance way better.

Starting point is 00:07:22 but they made the performance way better. So what's actually going on here is the Zephyrus G14 is running an older version of the RTX 2060 that doesn't have the super under the hood, even though NVIDIA's marketing people didn't see fit to include that bloody information. And the Intel laptop, even though it's running a, oh yeah, sorry, it's not only not running a Max-Q, but seems to be running a full tilt 2060. So a Max-P as it's sort of colloquially known, is not only running a Max-P, but it's also running the newer variant. This is,

Starting point is 00:08:01 this is my understanding of what uh what went down here so uh so at the very least even if the the difference in uh hold on a second that's not in my notes the bit about um nvidia refreshing the card so maybe they're both new ones you know what it doesn't matter what they should have done at least yeah they should have just they should have just colored both bars green nvidia versus nvidia yeah so here's what happened okay at the very least even if into nvidia's branding thing which i went off about and isn't in my notes so maybe it's not true and i'm very hesitant to like double down on stuff these days even if that isn't what happened. At the very least, it's a Max-Q versus a Max-P. We are talking a 65-watt GPU versus a 90-watt one. And the 65-watt one is limited to a boost of about 1185 megahertz, while the Max-P one, the full tilt one, runs at 1560. So that is an

Starting point is 00:09:02 increase in clock speed. Hold on just a moment here. Let me do some quick napkin math, which I do in a calculator app now because what freaking year is it? 1560. Hold on, Luke, can you just refresh me real quick here on what were the claims that Intel made with respect to the performance delta between these two laptops,

Starting point is 00:09:22 these Intel and AMD laptops here? At a minimum delta of 18 to 23 18 to 20 percent so 15 60 up to up to yes lowest up to was 18 percent so how much is 23 how much is 15 60 versus 11 85 well that happens to be a 31.6 percent increase in clock speed that's real awkward yeah that's real it's real awkward right now it's got real awkward it's like there's a partial other throttle on the system yeah it's almost stopping it from going that much faster okay i wouldn't i wouldn't actually i wouldn't actually say that um because i mean i wouldn't actually say what they're saying yeah bumping bumping bumping your gpu clock 25 does not yield 25 more frames per second so i don't want to i don't want to accuse intel of also being slower in addition to uh

Starting point is 00:10:18 not doing these benchmarks correctly but here's the problem guys like this is the kind of stuff that makes like it's just embarrassing you know it's just you're either evil or stupid at this point those are the only two options and i will say at least they did it's a little slightly odd that they didn't bowl uh i don't know if it's even a bold they didn't highlight in white the graphics card on the zephyrus g14 but they did on the msi gl65 at least they did include that information we have seen like inside benchmarks uh completely hide that type of information in the past they could have definitely just included the model of the laptop and not noted the graphics card that's in there

Starting point is 00:11:08 because it probably would have covered that unless these are laptops that come in multiple variants. But usually there would be a suffix of some kind. So there's like some things going for them there, I guess. At least they were very clear about what they were doing. They just shouldn't have done it. No, they shouldn't have done it. There's actually quite a few things in here that they shouldn't have done. And there's something that really... Man, one of the reasons this bothers me is that when Intel destroys their own credibility,

Starting point is 00:11:39 they go and destroy the credibility of people that they work with as well. This has been bothering me since last night when I was reading the comments on a Tech Wiki video that we did on what exactly is a process node. Because I think to the layperson, it's not really clear why it is that 14 nanometer versus 10 nanometer is a full process node shrink you know or you know why is it that um why is it that going from 14 to 10 is a process node whereas going from uh hold on i it's hard to do this math in my head so hold on 90 times 0.7 equals uh 60 that would have been really nice is if they if they actually like using base for every single one of uh the the amd performance lines is is kind of annoying

Starting point is 00:12:34 oh we're not showing that the baseline is actually zero okay there's a bunch of stuff in there we're gonna get don't worry we're gonna get back to that we're gonna get back to that but we did a video basically just explaining why it is that you have to go from 90 nanometer all the way down to 65 and then you only have to go from 14 nanometer down to 10 and then from 10 down to 7 to qualify as a full process node and the comments on that we we reached out to intel to get some clarification on this subject because they were kind of there the whole time. And the video is nothing but factual. And the people that we were talking to at Intel were not just, you know, marketing wangers

Starting point is 00:13:15 or anything like that. Like they were actual technical people who we talked to. And instead of people just being able to look at this video and go, hey, here's some information about a thing that I didn't know about. It's now stained by some of the marketing that Intel is doing. So when I said in the video, um, you know, hey, you got to remember that the process node is not the be all and end all. People are misinterpreting that as some kind of an Intel

Starting point is 00:13:46 talking point. That was actually something that I added on my own. Because you got to remember, a lot of Intel's marketing over the years has been around how many freaking nanometers they're at. And this video was an explainer of how that number and the meaning of it has actually shifted over time. It's just informative. It wasn't sponsored by Intel. And the information that's in the video is nothing to do with Intel's current marketing messaging. When I said that, the thing that I was actually thinking of was NVIDIA versus AMD right now. AMD is a node ahead of NVIDIA and getting absolutely curb stomped in terms of everything

Starting point is 00:14:26 from performance to efficiency. That is just the situation. The reality of it is that not everything is just down to how many nanometers you have. Another example that I didn't get into in depth in the video because it was beyond the scope of the tech quickie, like it's supposed to be quick, it's supposed to be focused, was that you can optimize a given manufacturing process, like a given nanometer size, a given transistor size, you can optimize it for high power parts or low power parts.

Starting point is 00:14:57 I remember we ran into this when, man, which node was NVIDIA stuck on for freaking ever in the Maxwell days? It escapes me right now. It doesn't really matter. The point is that there were smaller processes available, but they were more optimized for high efficiency, low power parts, and were not properly optimized for a GPU,

Starting point is 00:15:20 which is why NVIDIA opted to stay on a previous node that had better optimizations for their use case versus just jumping to a node for the sake of having a lower nanometer number that they could put in their marketing. That's the point I was trying to make. And yet the comment section on this video is full of people accusing me, Intel basically, accusing Intel and by extension me of trying to downplay that AMD is on 7 nanometer and Intel is still stuck on 14 nanometer for a lot of their products

Starting point is 00:15:50 and just finally shipping some 10 nanometer stuff. And it's like, no, that wasn't even one of the things Intel mentioned. That was just something that I felt was important for people to know. And another thing that I said at the end of the video, and this is really pissing me off right now, was I said that at the end of the day, when you are shopping for a computer processor, it comes down to the real-world performance in the applications that you actually use. And because of Intel's stupid statements that they've been making recently about how pretty much downplaying actual real

Starting point is 00:16:27 world performance in real benchmarks because they're making the argument that a lot of people don't use those particular applications. I'm getting caught up in this kind of crossfire where people are saying I'm some kind of an Intel shill because I'm saying real world performance in applications that you use is what is important when you shop for a product. That is true. That is true today. It'll be true 10 years from now.

Starting point is 00:16:52 It was true 10 years and 20 years ago and it has absolutely nothing to do with Intel's marketing. The problem is that Intel is muddying the waters. They're taking a benchmark like Cinebench and they're saying, well, we should be putting less emphasis on this and we should be putting more emphasis on the applications that people are legitimately using every day. The problem is that here we've got a slide from

Starting point is 00:17:15 this great article over on videocards.com. Hold on, where's this slide go? And for video editing, they're using Magic's Fast Cut Plus. The f*** is Magic's Fast Cut Plus? And who the f*** is using it? How is that more real world than like, you know, Cinema 4D, which is an actual application that real actual professionals do use. So people are drawing this false parallel between what I said, which is that if you're going to shop for,

Starting point is 00:17:48 if all you ever do is play Fortnite, that's all you do. You go to work, you get home, you turn on your computer, you play Fortnite, you go to sleep, you wake up in the morning, you go to work, rinse and repeat. That's all you do. Then the only thing that matters to you when you choose a CPU is how many FPS you get in Fortnite. That's it.

Starting point is 00:18:05 That's all that matters because that's what you actually do with your computer. You shouldn't buy a processor based on how good it is at running Cinebench or how good it is at running Adobe Premiere or whatever the case may be. That is a 100% truth. The issue is that Intel is using that truth as a shield and then twisting the narrative around to applications that people don't necessarily use. That was intense. That was my rant. I was just really upset by people when I was reading the comments on that video

Starting point is 00:18:40 because A, I'm being accused of being a paid shill when I'm not. All we did is talk to people at Intel who gave us real information, nothing to do with these dumb slides, which I promise you we are going to get back to in a moment here, and people not understanding the video. It was a bit of a deeper dive video. And I can see how some people who think they're very smart and very perceptive and, oh, I'm seeing through the BS on this, think they're very smart and very perceptive and, oh, I'm seeing through the BS on this, actually just had no idea what I was talking about and defaulted to criticizing instead of just trying to actually understand what I was saying. I can see how there might have been some

Starting point is 00:19:14 of that, but there's just no excuse for it. If you don't understand the video, don't leave a comment. There was nothing in that video that was wrong, and I said nothing in that video that was wrong and I said nothing in that video that was an Intel marketing point that wasn't just completely correct. Now let's get into the problems with Intel's marketing that are making them look bad, making me look bad, and making their partners look bad. Okay, I'm going back to display capture. Guys, you can check out this full thing over on videocards.com. It really is worth a looky-loo because there's some just kind of shockingly frustrating stuff in here. Sorry, I'm just going to give it a little resize-y size here so you guys can get a good look here. So, all right.

Starting point is 00:20:01 Market landscape, blah, blah, blah. Now, these slides were limited distribution, not for end users. But the reality of it is, is if you're Intel, you're kind of a big voice. And whenever you say something, people sit up and take notice. So you can't pretend that when you're saying something, it's not going to eventually end up in front of the eyeballs of end users. It's just the way that it works. I'm sorry, guys, I don't make the rules. We live in the information age. Yeah, you got to deal with that. What do PC users actually do? Office applications, games, media consumption, light content creation, and game streaming. And this seems to be color-coded

Starting point is 00:20:36 according to... I don't know what this color-coding is. These are stupid colors. All right, so Chrome has a popularity of 63%. I don't know why they would arbitrarily isolate Chrome as web browsing. I would say if you just said web browsing, it would have a popularity of 100%, but, you know, whatever. Minor details. Word, Steam, WinRAR. Yeah, sure.

Starting point is 00:21:00 I mean, oh, man. Okay, we got some problems here. This is people making this slide that I feel like don't properly understand how people use their computers. WinRAR might have a popularity of 37% in the sense that 37% of people have it or something similar installed on their computer.

Starting point is 00:21:19 When it comes to the percentage of time that I actually spend using WinRAR, like what? What fraction of a percent would that be for you luke i don't i haven't used okay i haven't used winrar in extremely long yeah i haven't used winrar specifically in a very long time but a a like application i would say like some tiny tiny decimal of a of a percentage sure yeah someone in chat said 0.00001 yeah yeah like once in a while when i download something that for whatever reason doesn't go straight into uh like a game launcher um all right so so winrar and you could make the

Starting point is 00:22:00 argument that unzipping games is also like a winrar like application so i guess i do it a little more often than that 0.001 or whatever but let's have a look at some of the other things that are showing up as popular popular uses uh obs at five percent i actually find that very hard to believe what what how are you getting i find all these that's the problem with these numbers is it's not like this is an invalid exercise, figuring out what people actually do with their computers and then determining the value of your product compared to your competitor

Starting point is 00:22:31 by looking at these things people actually do with their computers. I just don't understand these numbers. Outlook is 17.6%. When was the last time the CPU made a difference to Outlook performance? And how could you possibly say that OBS has a 5% popularity? What does that even mean? So I think these slides are probably for people that are like the the product managers at at various companies and

Starting point is 00:23:08 i think it is a little bit negatively manipulative for that reason but i don't it's probably not okay some of them like i'm extremely surprised 21.27 on vlc i was i was gonna that was my next one. That was my next one. There's no way. There's just no way. Yeah. CS Go is also written really weird. There's some stuff in here that's really weird but like being putting a thing up and being like look this is what most

Starting point is 00:23:37 people use is not useless to a product manager that might be a little bit spaced. But it's being misused i think absolutely these numbers feel very arbitrary so then we move on to some of the other slides here gaming uh the 9700k outperforms the 3950x in popular games fair fair point um i don't know that i would say that far cry new dawn and far cry 5 are especially popular games right now in this moment um or almost any of these to be completely fair well world of war is whoa that's an old game uh well there yeah it kind of

Starting point is 00:24:15 is far cry new dawn is kind of old total warhammer 2 total warhammer 2 that's that's actually current there's a bunch of these that people definitely play, but like this is not, if we want to go back up to the, what do PC users actually do graph, if you try to apply that to these games, they're going to be really low percentages. Yes.

Starting point is 00:24:37 Okay. So now let's talk frequency advantage, drives Intel's gaming leadership. Okay. So like we. And like some of these examples, sorry to just jump back in. Yeah. Like tanks like yeah okay if you have a 9700k you're probably fine in world of tanks if you have a ryzen 9 3950x you're fine in world of tanks so like you're not

Starting point is 00:24:59 yeah intel needs to get their story straight because they can say that, you know, oh, yeah, it's only applicable to a small percentage of users. You know, Cinema 4D, which they have on there as 0.54 percent or Adobe Premiere, which they have on as 3.7 percent. That's only applicable to a small percentage of users. I would make the argument that an 11 to 18 percent FPS improvement in most games is only applicable to competitive players who are a very small percentage of users. And a much better chart that they could have given is these are the applications. This is the percentage of usage of these various applications that someone who's actually in the market for this processor will use, not people that just use computers in general.

Starting point is 00:25:45 So they want to kind of have their cake and eat it too, or excuse me, eat their cake and have it too. I've been corrected on that. It actually makes a lot more sense that way. So they want to say, okay, well, these things aren't that important, so we should like ignore them. But also, rah, rah, rah, we've got this thing that I would make the argument that once you get beyond probably in the neighborhood of 75 to 120 or so FPS, it is a point of extremely diminishing returns for the vast majority of people. I consider myself pretty sensitive to low FPS. Like if there's a stutter or a frame rate dip, I'm going to feel it if I get down to 70 to 85 FPS. But beyond about 100, I usually can't tell, especially if I'm using a refresh rate synchronization technology

Starting point is 00:26:32 like G-Sync or FreeSync. Okay, moving on. Frequency drives Intel's gaming leadership. Yes, having higher frequency versus more cores is more important for gaming these days, and there's a reason that they chose the 9700K specifically. It's a six core processor and boosting up the frequency does tend to give you better return. Yeah, that's fair. Hold on a second. Where's your power consumption slide?

Starting point is 00:26:54 I don't see one. That's unfortunate. Anyway, CPU performance based on real world usage. Yes, this is a CPU that costs half as much, but AMD could easily pick and choose their comparer points as well. They could just as easily have taken Intel's 9900KS, special edition or, you know, 10900K or whatever, and compared it to something like a 3600 or 3600X, and they would have also looked really good in terms of price performance. You don't get to take your value gaming chip and put it up against someone else's flagship chip. They should have put it up against a 3800x or something like that. Something that's at least remotely price comparable.

Starting point is 00:27:31 Now we get on to the everyday workload slide. Like this whole thing just really annoys me. So that's where we've got this stupid Magix Fast Cut Plus powered by Intel Quick Sync Video up to 2.7 times faster. Yeah, that's the problem with Quick Sync Video up to 2.7 times faster. Yeah, that's the problem with Quick Sync Video though, is that the support for it is so limited that it's sort of a nothing burger. Like when you can find something that uses it, it's awesome. But the reality of it is that when it comes to video editing, most people are not using that tool. Most people are using Adobe Creative Cloud. And if they can't afford Adobe Creative Cloud, they are either using DaVinci Resolve or they are pirating Adobe Creative Cloud. Look, I don't make the rules,

Starting point is 00:28:16 Luke. But that's the way it is. Or they're on Final Cut because they're using a Mac. Very few people are actually able to take advantage of that 2.7 times faster, which is a very real advantage. And when you use, you know, something like, when you use, you know, an actual dedicated encoding application, and you can take advantage of that path, it really is fast. But GPUs are also catching up. So Adobe, in the latest beta of Premiere and Media Encoder, added support for CUDA. So it's now faster and supposedly without a quality drawback, although we haven't actually tested that internally yet. But why, you know, why make the apples to apples comparison of the Intel chip with NVIDIA

Starting point is 00:28:59 encoding and the AMD chip with NVIDIA encoding when you can pick and like cherry cherry pick this example where you get to be 2.7 times faster office productivity this is this is great eight percent better office productivity i mean like man we need the pepsi challenge back ladies and gentlemen do you think you could detect eight percent better uh powerpoint productivity no powerpoint performance in a blind taste test nope i would like to say that i could i would like to say that i am that sensitive towards performance improvements but uh in in productivity suites i'm not going to notice it which i i might be able to potentially at at certain levels of performance within gaming, but not office productivity. Which isn't to say that there's anything necessarily wrong with pointing out that in Sysmark 2018, you have up to 7% better scores compared to your competitor that cost twice as much. There's nothing inherently wrong with saying, hey, well, you know, yeah, 7% might

Starting point is 00:30:03 not be a big deal, hey seven percent is better than a kick in the teeth ain't it it's just that they didn't manage to find any application where amd outperformed them even though those things do exist so and the thing is when when you have a list of charts like this where where like you start with that one, that's just brutal of like the, which we need to get back to still the, the like no numbers on either side of the graph. AMD is listed as base up to whatever percentage we use the different graphs

Starting point is 00:30:37 card, all this other kind of stuff. Every single other slide after that, what the heck? Every single slide after that becomes highly questionable. And now we're going to look at things like the small amount of desktop, sorry, not desktop, productivity suite performance increase, which normally we would just scroll over that slide and be like,

Starting point is 00:30:59 yeah, whatever, I don't really care. It doesn't matter, and move forward. But now we want to call but but now we want to call it out because we want to call everything out just you can avoid these problems by just not being fishy in the first place yeah here's a really weird one like when okay you know what i'm i'm not going to go too hard at this next slide because based on the timing, I think that AMD's Zen 2 value processors might not have been out yet. So I'm not going to slam them for this. Intel really did deliver a better gaming experience on the low end before AMD had Zen 2

Starting point is 00:31:39 chips available. So the Ryzen 3100 and 33 those are those are killer um the 3400g really was probably not worth settling for for gaming so i'm not going to go after them for that so let's go back to that one slide that you had wanted to talk about uh which one was the one you wanted one quick thing before we go back yeah um if you look at the very next slide after everyday workloads yep elite real world performance for gaming and creating yeah this is all versus their last gen i think you also notice what they included hold on a second can i have a look here wait why is video editing in here oh gaming and creating okay sure fine versus three okay they just pick and choose what they're comparing against. Okay. Look at the video editing application that is used.

Starting point is 00:32:26 Oh no. What, what is it? I can't even tell. Premiere. Wait, what? Now they use Premiere. They have the logo right there. PR. Oh, there it is. Oh, you gotta be kidding me. That is ridiculous. Okay. I, you know what? That's really ridiculous. You're right. You're right. But I'm going to, I'm going to move on to more cherry picking here. And they just seem to have seemingly arbitrarily chosen what they want to compare against here. The games. Hold on a second. Uh, let me just, let me just move this elite real world performance. Here we go. So up to 33% more, uh, whatever this is, is this, what is this gaming, Gaming? More FPS versus their own previous gen. Okay.

Starting point is 00:33:07 Up to 81% more versus 3-year-old PC. Okay. Up to 187 FPS. What does that even mean? Up to 2x better megatasking. What am I even... Okay. 3-year-old PC. Never mind. I only

Starting point is 00:33:24 saw that over here i thought okay previous gen okay okay all right all right so these are all internal comparisons against their own stuff so that's fine i'm less mad about that but still the percentage stuff i'm not too worried about it's just the fact that they they they cherry picked their example that no one uses previously yeah video editing and then they went and they used Premiere when it mattered. Yeah, and they're like, well, we know this one's the actually important one. So we're gonna include it in this later slide

Starting point is 00:33:51 and just hope nobody notices. So here's the bottom line. Real world performance matters. Intel is not wrong in that sense. The thing that is wrong is taking someone else's benchmark that you feel is not real world representative enough and substituting your own equally not representative of the real world benchmark. When I said in that video, I'm going back to the comments on that TechQuickie video again. When I said in that video that real-world performance is what matters,

Starting point is 00:34:28 that is like an age-old wisdom that comes from back when CPU reviews used to contain almost nothing but the following. Stupid, meaningless, arbitrary, synthetic benchmarks like SciSoft Sandra, which just measures things like millions of instructions per second, which doesn't necessarily translate to the real world. Okay. So a purely synthetic benchmark. It would also contain things like, um, oh yes, right. Synthetic gaming benchmarks, like 3DMark 2001 or whatever. Back then the tools to measure the FPS of real games were much more rudimentary, very, very difficult to use if you could get anything working at all. And you couldn't

Starting point is 00:35:12 get the same amount of detail, frame times and stuff like that. We didn't have tools for measuring it. So you'd get these synthetic games that ultimately could be meaningless. You could have one CPU that performs twice as good in 3DMark and then half as well in an actual game that people are actually playing. So that's why that was important, getting away from synthetic game benchmarks. And then the other thing that you'd have was, oh, what was the other one that I had wanted to point out? Right, yeah, totally unrealistic real-world gaming applications. People would run Quake 3 at 640 by 480 just to show, you know,

Starting point is 00:35:47 what the maximum FPS that a CPU could drive was when you remove the GPU as a bottleneck. And there is still some validity, particularly to that last one, because it does tell you, okay, when you remove the GPU as a bottleneck, how many FPS can you get? So like turning a game all the way down to low settings and saying, which one at the end of the day is the better gaming CPU? So you're trying to effectively extrapolate to when games get more demanding, which one is going to keep up for longer. But that doesn't inform how the user is actually going to use the computer. None of those things do. And that's why there was a big shift to real world benchmarks. And whether

Starting point is 00:36:33 Intel likes it or not, Cinema 4D is a real world application that real people do actually use, even if it's very few of them. And one of the nice things about it for a reviewer is that it tends to give us a really quick look at what to expect in an application that scales really well across multiple cores. So it's not synthetic. And if you don't like Cinema 4D or Cinebench or whatever, you could say that. You could say that specific benchmark we don't feel is applicable to many people. And they have said that. But you don't get to then pick your own random benchmarks or real-world applications that nobody uses and substitute those. That is my point, and that is all I have to say about it. Now, Intel, stop embarrassing yourself and stop embarrassing me

Starting point is 00:37:19 because I have the poor sense to talk to you about something as basic as, you know, what a die shrink means and then have people jump down my throat because they think that what I'm saying is somehow part of your dumb benchmarking. I'm calm now. You want to talk about Dr. Disrespect getting banned from Twitch? Wait, Luke, I can't hear you. I can't hear you, Luke. Right, sorry. There was people cheering outside my window.

Starting point is 00:37:49 So I'm going to mute them. I'm like, maybe talk to Shrout about how you should present some of this stuff before you present some of this stuff and stop assuming that just because you put a usage guideline, limited distribution, not suitable for end user messaging, that it's not going to leak. All of these things leak.

Starting point is 00:38:04 And besides, if it's not suitable for end user messaging, that it's not going to leak. All of these things. And besides, if it's not suitable, if it's not suitable for end user messaging, it's not suitable for partner messaging. You just shouldn't be saying it. If you wouldn't say it to a customer, if it could be considered misleading to say to a customer, you should never say it to anyone. That's that should be your rule. And I thought you were talking to me when you were like, talk to Shroud. I'm like, why do I have to talk to Shroud I don't need to talk to Shroud I know I know Shroud knows his stuff so we're talking about Ryan Shroud who used to run PC Perspective and is now at Intel like that's all these guys have to do talk to Shroud because he would be able to look at that that slide deck and say whoa we cannot show this to anybody all right let's talk about dr disrespect getting banned

Starting point is 00:38:46 from twitch so i have no idea if these two things are related but there has been uh a sort of resurgence in the hashtag me too movement this time uh quite laser focused on twitch we don't technically know that this one is in line with that i haven't personally seen any public anything yet about it that has nothing no real information what we could be we have no idea what we do know and the reason that i was tying those things together is not because i think i don't remember his real name unfortunately but uh not because i think that loop loop something is it you know it doesn't matter uh not because i think that loop loop something is it, you know, it doesn't matter. Not because I think that these things are necessarily directly related or that he was

Starting point is 00:39:31 involved in any kind of sexual misconduct. I have no idea. I don't know the guy. But what I think it could be related to is platforms like Twitch suddenly realizing, and I don't know why it took this long, that they really need to take some responsibility for the people that they partner with because that's what the meaning of the word partner is. When you're a Twitch partner, you are partnered. Whether you're Amazon and you put in your contract that, you know, I cannot in any way imply that I am associated with Amazon or affiliated, affiliated, that's the word, because it used to be called Amazon Affiliate and they changed it to Amazon Associates. So in the contract, it says that I can't say that I'm affiliated with Amazon formally in any way, but you actually still go to affiliate

Starting point is 00:40:24 dash amazon.com or whatever it is to access the Amazon Associates program way, but you actually still go to affiliate-amazon.com or whatever it is to access the Amazon Associates program. So whenever you have a word like affiliate, I think that's why Amazon got rid of it, or partner, you create this perception that you are working together. And they are. They're giving money to this individual or these individuals, and these individuals are creating content for their platform. It is a partnership. It's a symbiotic partnership.

Starting point is 00:40:49 And I think what Twitch is realizing as part of this Me Too moment that is happening on Twitch right now, where everyone from prominent streamers to partner managers is being accused of impropriety right now, is that, holy crap, it actually reflects on us when our partners do stuff that is terrible.

Starting point is 00:41:12 So I don't know ultimately what Dr. Disrespect did. Part of his character is being disrespectful and he has definitely done stuff that I think, you know, if he were employed at more of a conventional media organization, like a, like a news outlet, for example, would have gotten him absolutely fired and completely unhirable ever again. Like that incident where he live streamed in a public bathroom. So I don't know exactly what he did. I suspect that it's just, even if it's not directly related to what's going on right now with hashtag MeToo over on Twitch, it is probably related to some kind of thing that I find believable that he might have done. And they probably just want to create some distance.

Starting point is 00:42:05 Now, I have a bit of a tinfoil hat theory, but I'm going to wait until you see if Luke has sort of two cents to chime in here first. Tinfoil hat theory is coming, though. I have heard a bunch of different ideas on this, and as far as I know, there's no publicly asserted ones that are solved. The one, I don't watch his stream. I don't really watch Twitch streams in general.

Starting point is 00:42:28 Every once in a while, I jump on Summit's stream because I find his GTA RP stuff really entertaining. And I like it when he plays Sea of Thieves. But I'm not really a Twitch viewer. But there's apparently some potential theories that it could be a, what is it, ftc violation due to some undisclosed sponsorships oh that seems no i don't know you know what that doesn't make sense to me though because my understanding of those guidelines is that ultimately they fall back on the individual

Starting point is 00:43:02 or excuse me on the brand not on the individual themselves excuse me, on the brand, not on the individual themselves. Now, I haven't looked at the guidelines lately because for us, it's a lot easier to just make sure that our disclosures are all in line than to figure out what the consequences are. But when I went back through this a while ago, someone submitted a complaint to some kind of Canadian regulatory body that we weren't disclosing sponsorships. So I went through and I really immersed myself in the documentation for this stuff. I went through both the American and Canadian ones because I'm Canadian and a lot of our partners are American. I felt like I needed to understand it on both sides of the border. And we ultimately were found by the Canadian organization to have not been in violation of anything, of any of their border. And we ultimately were found by the Canadian organization to have not been

Starting point is 00:43:46 in violation of anything of any of their standards, because they accused us of not disclosing a sponsorship. But I was like this video that they flagged here, we disclosed the sponsorship literally three times, once verbally, again, in text, and then a third time verbally, it's like, what are you talking about? Anyway, the point is the last time I looked at it, my understanding was that when there was a violation, it ultimately reflected on the brand that was paying, not on the influencer themselves. So there was sort of a really sort of wild west era there

Starting point is 00:44:19 anywhere from probably three to 10 years ago where what was happening was brands did not properly understand these guidelines slash they didn't exist yet. And influencers didn't care because ultimately nothing bad could happen to them. So there were a lot of undisclosed sponsorships going around. Well, here's the problem. Brands started to wise up when I think it was, what was it? Xbox got in trouble when they had a bunch of like undisclosed partnerships around the Xbox One launch.

Starting point is 00:44:50 They had people playing games and not disclosing that they were sponsored by Microsoft. Do you remember that, Luke? Yes. I think that was sort of like a watershed moment for all of this when everyone kind of woke up and went, oh, it's actually Microsoft that they're going to go after. So it is very typical now for non-sh to have really, really strict guidelines in their partner contracts about how you have to disclose. And it's all in line with the FTC. Now there's, there's lots of companies that don't bother or don't understand it or think they're just going

Starting point is 00:45:20 to skirt around it. And I have seen still, even now, like even as, as recently as this year and last year, um, some videos go up that I know for a fact are, are sponsored because like, you know, I worked on a video with the brand at around that same time with similar, a similar spin on it, similar messaging, but for whatever reason, mine is disclosed and the other person's isn't, um, or ones where I know from talking to the brand, like who they're working with and I see the video go up and I'm like, Oh yeah, that's not disclosed. That's interesting. Um, so it's definitely still happening, but it's not nearly as prevalent as it was even two, three years ago. Um, so yeah, can I, can I go tinfoil hat for a second here?

Starting point is 00:46:07 Yeah. Okay. I think that it could be any reason. I think it could be some kind of accusation. I think it could be whatever the thing you said that sounded credible was, some kind of undisclosed sponsorship thing. I think it could be that.

Starting point is 00:46:20 I think that he's probably done enough things that are bannable at this point that um there was some theory there was some theory in the past that he would intentionally get himself in trouble uh sure yep trying to get temp bands and stuff like that because it really actually lined up quite well with his character yeah with his brand and it gets him a bunch of press okay so whatever the reason is part of me kind of goes you know what maybe it actually doesn't matter maybe what twitch is realizing is like i said before they have a responsibility to their brand to associate

Starting point is 00:46:57 or partner with people who are going to reflect on it positively and maybe they're having a little bit of buyer's remorse about that exclusivity deal that they signed with him and at this point, the cost of not having him on the platform is less than the cost of paying him not to go to a platform that no longer exists because they just paid him reportedly an enormous sum of money,

Starting point is 00:47:26 millions and millions of dollars, to not go over to Mixer, because realistically, nobody was going over to Facebook Gaming. If any of the scuttlebutt is to be believed, both Ninja and Shroud were offered significantly more than their existing Mixer contracts to make the migration over to Facebook Gaming and didn't do it, because nobody with a brand to protect right now wants it associated with facebook in any way outside of like the

Starting point is 00:47:51 normie sphere like if if you have like a tech savvy or like a media savvy audience you do not want any association with facebook i mean aren't they going through like a corporate um a boycott right now i think i saw that uh oh who was it unilever just uh just boycotted advertising on facebook or something like that there's been a lot of pullouts um let me just double check make sure uh and yeah yeah unilever uh pulled out of both facebook and uh a twitter i believe verizon pledged to uh pull ads from facebook so like that is a super pulled out of both Facebook and Twitter, I believe. Verizon pledged to pull ads from Facebook. So like that is a super toxic brand. So realistically, the only thing left is YouTube gaming.

Starting point is 00:48:34 And if I'm YouTube gaming, I'm not going to be signing any like gigantic deals right now. I'm just going to let this toxicity on Twitch play out and I'm going to sit there and go, oh, thank goodness I'm not in the news right now. This is wonderful. So I kind of wonder if part of the timing is, you know, hey, this guy was already toxic. Now that we've made this big splash partnering with him,

Starting point is 00:48:59 it reflects on us even more. And I wonder if they were just waiting for him to do something bannable. That simple. And save themselves some money yeah they they very recently signed a i don't have the exact date or the exact value on this uh but they very recently i think it was within the last two years signed a very large yeah it was so when when all those streamers were being poached by mixer they signed a big exclusivity contract with him so it still sounds a little bit surprising um that they dropped him

Starting point is 00:49:32 you know yeah um it's a huge deal and i mean the thing is like i think at the end of the day the doc is probably going to be okay but Um, but getting deep platformed is extremely traumatic. Like I can, I can probably count on my hands and toes or my fingers and toes, the number of people that, um, have six, not just successfully, but have, but that have thrived moving from one platform over to another. Um, yeah, let's, uh, yeah, sometimes, sometimes it works okay when you continue on the previous platform. Um, but fully switching is, is often not super fantastic. Um, as, as we saw in a topic we're gonna be going into into with Ninja and Shroud moving over to Mixer.

Starting point is 00:50:26 Oh, yeah. Let's get through our sponsors real quick here before we move on to that. This show is brought to you today by Anchor. The Anchor PowerX Band Direct 7-in-2 USB-C adapter allows you to connect more devices to your MacBook. Simply attach it to the side of your MacBook via the USB Type-C ports,

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Starting point is 00:51:25 installed so you get that coupon applied to your cart i was trying to find it but i i have anchor battery banks that i've been using for way way way too long and they're still great anchors anchors good stuff they kind of went from absolutely nobody to like oh yeah they're like not no now no name they're like a name brand now doing fantastic oh yeah definitely yeah kind of a kind of a hashtag kind of a big deal uh the show is also brought to you today by moss organizer these guys make great backpacks i where's my where's my moss backpack oh well whatever this is a different one this is very similar to the one that i've been daily driving for well over man has it been like two years now, I think?

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Starting point is 00:52:47 Finally, the show is brought to you by Vessi Footwear. You know, I've actually been wearing shoes lately. Vessi sent me over some of their shoes. And I started out just wearing them when I go for bike rides. Because my dad has this like mangled big toe from when he got his big toe stuck in a bike chain when he was a kid. And I was like, yep, I'm going to wear closed-toed shoes every time I get on a bike. Thank you very much, sir. So I started just wearing them for bike rides and then they're really convenient to slip on and slip off. So I've started just wearing them to like go take out the garbage. Baby steps. I rarely leave the house in them, you know, but

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Starting point is 00:53:57 So that's pretty cool stuff. Go check that out. All right. Back to Linus and Luke talking about crazy stuff going on. Can you intro our next topic? Man, everything's crazy today. Is it a mixer one? one yeah let's talk through that why don't we microsoft axes mixer i actually said what to my display when i read this i i could not contain it to nobody barely use twitter anymore um ever i am not super active on social media these days um but i just blew up

Starting point is 00:54:27 when this happened because it's a like especially being sort of in the space it's it's kind of it's huge amazing it's it's massive it's it's not that often you see a platform like this just gone just gone um but yeah acquired yes gone no like bizarre uh yeah uh oh okay i thought you were saying that was what happened no no no i just mean like to be acquired is like like normally you expect you know these these platforms to just kind of you know oh yeah i'll acquire yahoo acquired it and you're like what does yahoo even own like what does yah does Yahoo even do? You know, like that kind of thing. You expect that, but just gone. They acquire things and then let them die.

Starting point is 00:55:09 Yeah, exactly. This one just died on its own though. All Mixer sites and apps will redirect users to Facebook gaming. That's crazy. Which I think we're going to have to come back to that in a moment, especially during the current controversy. Holy cow.

Starting point is 00:55:24 The fact that they decided to do that was nuts uh the company stated in a blog post on june 22nd blindsiding definitely talked to a few people from that platform definitely blindsiding streamers employees and their partners the move microsoft said is in direct reaction to the company's lack of success with with with uh growth in the mixer audience overall on the platform there is if you watch like uh shroud or ninja on that platform they will have a lot of viewers the issue is the platform as a whole the viewership has not really gone up and i really do mean that because it seems like the viewers from other streams just went to shroud and ninja yep it doesn't really seem that more people came to mixer don't quote me on this but i was reading

Starting point is 00:56:11 an article that said that in the same time period mixer grew by like one percent and facebook gaming had doubled or something like that yeah i mean if you click on the the blue text that says stats you should be able to scroll down and see year-over-year growth. That's a very interesting chart. And it very accurately displays the issue where there was a 0.2% year-over-year growth for Mixer. There we go. There's a 138% year-over-year growth for Facebook Gaming,

Starting point is 00:56:40 65% for YouTube Gaming, and almost exactly 100% for Twitch. There was effectively no growth for Mixer. And they had the highest opportunity to grow being at a smaller number and bringing in these massive streamers, and they didn't see any growth. Streamers were locked into exclusivity deals with Mixer and they were fully released from their contracts. So Ninja and Shroud and I believe others were fully released from their contracts. Ninja's deal was estimated at $20 to $30 million and he has been fully released from his contract.

Starting point is 00:57:19 Facebook apparently offered them wild amounts of money. I don't have exact. Some people were talking about potentially 2x the original contract amounts. And neither, as far as I know, neither Shroud nor Ninja have publicly stated what they are going to be doing moving forward. I mean, I would for $60 million, I would definitely be thinking about it at least. Look, look, you know what? You can Facebook. Very know what Facebook, very bad Very, very bad, on the record

Starting point is 00:57:48 Very bad, here I am So clearly they're never going to make me an offer at this point Then if I keep burning bridges like this But, man, for like 50 million bucks I would at least have to Think about it If they offered me 40 million dollars

Starting point is 00:58:03 I would definitely Have to at least talk to think about it you know if they offer me 40 million dollars like i would definitely i would definitely have to at least talk to the wife you know like if facebook called up and they were like look i'll give you 30 million dollars to stream on facebook gaming it's it's worth it's worth considering okay okay okay hypothetical scenario they offer 20 million dollars keep going down you have to at least think about it this is set for life 40 million dollars but you had to cease all activity on all other platforms i wouldn't do it right yeah i wouldn't okay okay let's let's just go let's just say uh floatplane and youtube because those are the other only other because like twitter and Instagram is not the same level of video. I have to stop.

Starting point is 00:58:48 No, there's no way I'm a YouTuber, like for better or for worse. Um, I kind of, I kind of live or die by that sword. Um, you know,

Starting point is 00:58:57 if, if YouTube dies, that's, you know, I would probably just, I'd probably just hang up my screwdriver. Uh, you know, like honestly, like, I think I like the statement. I, I would probably just hang up my screwdriver. Honestly.

Starting point is 00:59:08 I like the statement. I would probably keep creating some content, but it would be something that I would do as a hobby as opposed to my profession, I think is very likely. Right. Yeah. Things that you found interesting. I could see myself legitimately in a semi-retirement where I'm still on something like float plane and I'm still on Twitter and just like, you know, tweeting random thoughts. And I'm still like, you know, live streaming, just playing video games to like that audience in particular is really fun to engage with. fun to engage with. You know, I could, I could see myself doing that because it would, it would be justifiable because these are paying, these are effectively paying customers that want to

Starting point is 00:59:49 engage with you. And, you know, it's, it's way better, you know, use of time compared to, you know, ad supported platforms. So in that sense, like I could, I could definitely justify taking the time to do something like that. But if I was effectively like deplatformed, like where I do most of my volume business, as opposed to like my high profit business, I just, I don't think I'd want to pick up the pieces again. It's demoralizing, even if I could do it. And I think I could do it. I think I'm a, I think I'm a very good, you know, online personality. Um, I think that's fair to say at this point, I think if I wanted to make it as a game streamer, I could make that work or whatever. Um, but it would just be, it would be borderline depressing to have to start over. Yeah, I, I could definitely see that. Um,

Starting point is 01:00:40 I don't know if that's what you're asking. That is. And I want to jump back on that quick. I just want to finish the notes here. Facebook is offering $2,500 signing bonus to Mixer partners. And it was much easier to become a Mixer partner than it was a Twitch partner. They're offering that $2,500 if they join the Facebook Gaming Creator Program and stay for 90 days along with fulfilling obligations, which is probably like minimum streaming times and days, et cetera. Now, what do you think? Let's focus on what everybody's focusing on, which is Ninja and Shroud. What do you think they will do? And you can answer individually if you want. I think they're going to end up going back to Twitch. I think that they're going to go back to Twitch

Starting point is 01:01:25 with less lucrative deals. But I think Twitch is in a position where, again, talking about deplatforming. So they deplatformed from Twitch. Do you think after getting potentially $30 million as a signing bonus and just being able to walk away, that Ninja is going to, in a certain way, crawl back to twitch

Starting point is 01:01:45 and take a worse contract what are his other options he could just quit he could stream wherever he wants he could go to youtube i he is at this point he has spoken out against twitch specifically and they trashed his channel after he left. Do you remember that? That's true. No, I had actually forgotten about that. I did know that they weren't going to accept them back with open arms. I do know that. Yeah, like Ninja had to specifically call out Twitch for abusing his channel. And there was some very odd content posted on his stream. I don't remember exactly what it was.

Starting point is 01:02:29 But they posted stuff on his page that he was very not okay with. YouTube chat's like, OnlyFans. Oh, man. What is the answer? because nothing beats the discoverability well okay they have terrible discoverability but once you're big nothing beats the discoverability of twitch if you're a game streamer period um if you don't want to get in bed with facebook

Starting point is 01:02:59 which i could understand not wanting to do you can't go there youtube gaming like so shroud yeah honestly i wouldn't be too surprised if he went back to twitch uh i feel like his his cut from twitch was much cleaner yeah for sure um and i don't remember much public at least major fighting between them ninjas cut from twitch was not clean um he got very upset with them they seem to get pretty upset with him um twitch as a whole streamed some stuff on his page that he was extremely not okay with i don't want to say the word for what it was because it might uh flag this video um but like and and he He posted a whole video essentially if we want to use civilization terms.

Starting point is 01:03:50 He denounced Twitch in a certain way. We've been playing Civ lately. Moving back to... Why do they keep denouncing me? I just have more great people than them. I guess in this situation actually um but yeah i think it would be a very interesting move if he went back to twitch and i think it would definitely take some explanation due to

Starting point is 01:04:18 the fighting that has happened in the past um and i think it would take both sides kind of coming together and trying to wipe the slate clean i do not think it would take both sides kind of coming together and trying to wipe the slate clean. I do not think it would just be Ninja crawling back. I think it would be both sides trying to split their differences and try to move forward if he goes back to Twitch. I honestly wouldn't be too surprised if he maybe went to YouTube. My reasoning for that is Facebook is super controversial right now. I would be very surprised if either of them went to Facebook. Twitch for Ninja is rather controversial right now.

Starting point is 01:04:52 I wouldn't be stunned, but I'd be a little bit surprised if they made that work again. But YouTube is kind of this neutral zone. It also doesn't go in line with the statements he was making when he first moved to mixer which is that he could maybe uh help guide and direct the direction there and have a bigger voice yeah having a bigger voice i think you'll have no voice at youtube basically yeah they don't really seem to care i was actually decently surprised that the youtube gaming numbers were as high as they were on that stats page me too i mean we even killed the dedicated app last year. It killed the dedicated app.

Starting point is 01:05:28 And when's the last time they said anything about YouTube gaming? They're just lucky, I guess. And it just carries from the YouTube name as a whole. Well, yes and no. I mean, there's no luck to how good YouTube is at live video delivery and VOD video delivery. Like, good engineering at some point is valuable. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:05:46 The dashboard is horrible. Um, the actual usability of YouTube live is terrible. Um, I mean, I know how to use it now. It's okay. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:05:57 But the, the level of intuitive miss and ease of use is probably close to worth and worst in the industry. Um um i'm sure they'll figure it out because they're youtube but right now it's very bad so like i i just losing his voice almost completely all these other things would be a surprising i don't know everything from him i think is just going to be a surprising move because like the the youtube move is so against the reason why he went to mixer yeah and the twitch move is so against everything as far as i know that he's said about twitch since he left

Starting point is 01:06:31 so you know what i mean you know 20 or 30 million or let's say it's even just 10 million dollars that really is set for life money um maybe they just stream as a hobby and it actually doesn't really matter where they go. You know what? I'm here. Okay, fine. Fine. With all the extra information you've given me, you've made it easier.

Starting point is 01:06:51 I think Ninja stays on YouTube. I think Shroud makes a triumphant return back to Twitch. There. Because I mean, Ninja's got like 20 million subscribers on YouTube. It's not like he's like starting over there. He's really big on YouTube. youtube yeah he would do super well he always had massive fortnite clips yeah um he would do super well on youtube for sure and he he was one of the twitch people who always talked about their youtube audience as well and like like youtube felt like, like YouTube felt like a, like a side thing in the story instead of a, uh,

Starting point is 01:07:28 weird underlying platform. Like it was, it was a platform that he definitely cared a lot about. I'm going to say neither of them gets a sweetheart deal to go anywhere though, at this point. Uh, except for Facebook, but. Well, apparently they've both publicly turned it down. Yeah. So, but they still got the deal. Well, yeah.

Starting point is 01:07:48 Yeah, exactly. Well, who knows if it was him or not, but whoever manages his YouTube channel has uploaded a video there as recently as seven hours ago. Yep. And that wasn't like, oh, geez, we have to keep this going. There's videos going up there all the time. They could come to Floplane just saying we've uh i had someone in chat actually ask this is a super chat over on youtube could floatplane

Starting point is 01:08:15 support um those kinds of viewers um the answer is yes but with a big asterisk. So right now, the way it's architected, we could support a nearly unlimited number of concurrent viewers, but not a nearly unlimited number of concurrent streamers. So if like one of them... There's some more asterisks on top of that as well, but yeah. Yeah, if one of them showed up, we could probably make it work. Like, you know all three of these guys knocked on our door and we're like hey we'd have to we'd have to real quick fast

Starting point is 01:08:51 duct tape engineer some stuff and it might not be smooth probably wouldn't go that well probably try though probably wouldn't be smooth well we could like we'll give it a baseball try we could manually no no hold on a second hold Hold on, I got an idea. I got a workaround, Luke. We just manually fully duplicate the entire streaming infrastructure we have now for each of them. Beautiful.

Starting point is 01:09:13 Okay, tell me it wouldn't work. Tell me it wouldn't work. I mean... Go on. I think AJ would have to take the second half of the year off and do all the rest of his hours in the next four weeks but tell me it wouldn't work you could i mean you could do it hey there it is there let's get it done yeah we've done most of our work on vod at this point um yeah all right uh okay do we have any other big topics i feel like we still do

Starting point is 01:09:46 is there anything oh my goodness microsoft to permanently close all physical retail stores yeah apparently this was not uh pandemic related or at least not pandemic hinged like it wasn't purely done because of the pandemic um retail is dying i think at the same yeah retail is dying and i've walked past many a microsoft store and seen them completely empty um but i think microsoft is having a little bit of trouble like like honestly outside of Xbox, they are a little bit newer to the hardware space. They're not brand new, but they're a new player. They need more actual Microsoft products to make it worth it to go in their store and experience them and experience them working together.

Starting point is 01:10:37 That's why Apple is successful because in order to... Part of experiencing an Apple product is experiencing how it works with Apple's other products. Whereas I don't think Microsoft really has that story in a compelling way outside of Xbox. And even that is basically in its infancy, as far as I can tell, like they're really

Starting point is 01:10:53 still like if, if part of the experience of going to a Microsoft store was gaming with my friend on a PC and me being on an Xbox, that'd be like super cool. I'd be like, yeah, that's something that, that's an experience that you would have to go to a store in order to have and fully appreciate. But when Microsoft started just like filling up these stores with like partner notebook SKUs and stuff like that, I was like, ah, what are you guys even doing?

Starting point is 01:11:18 Like there's no money in reselling notebooks. And I'm not, that's not to say that there is zero money in it. There's just not enough to support all that retail overhead. And Microsoft'm not, that's not to say that there is zero money in it. There's just not enough to support all that retail overhead. And Microsoft's not the kind of company that can afford the risk of having poorly trained people in their stores that, you know, create some kind of racist hullabaloo or whatever the case may be. Like you just, you just can't afford it. So they have to have expensive and thorough training programs and all that stuff and this there's just so much overhead involved so this doesn't surprise

Starting point is 01:11:50 me uh see i have seen a lot of them so i thought they were more common uh but apparently seven of them uh are in british columbia alberta and ontario so maybe that's why i think that but they only had 83 stores worldwide which is a lot less than i thought 72 of them were in u.s wow yeah so they were basically all north american yep so this was they have one in the taiwan tech mall is that like the other one i I'm not sure. I thought like Razer had a store there or something. I think they only have four outside of that. So like, yeah, I don't know. Online's the way to go.

Starting point is 01:12:32 And they've got some cool new features coming to their online storefronts, including one-to-one video chat. That's pretty cool. Online tutorials, virtual workshops, and more digital solutions. That makes so much more sense because it's like, I remember someone talking to me about why I don't do more in-person fan engagement.

Starting point is 01:12:51 And the cold hard truth is that it's not great use of my time. Not because I don't enjoy it. I really do. And that's why we do LTX, or at least we normally do, because I love it. It's a blast. we normally do because I love it. It's a blast. The problem is that if I have two hours to do something, I can either tweet like, hey, anyone want to meet up at the Starbucks? And I can engage with three people or I can sit down in front of my computer

Starting point is 01:13:17 and live stream and engage with a thousand people or 10,000 people or 100,000 people. So, you know, what's a better return on the investment of my time at that point online i don't think your civ streams get a hundred thousand people bro they get a thousand and that was one of the numbers i said if i make a video i can reach a hundred thousand people like that so there you go smart guy it's true yeah one cool thing actually in hearing the part about like the one-to-one video chat,

Starting point is 01:13:49 online tutorials, virtual workshops and stuff like that is there's no information yet about layoffs. I would find it extremely difficult for them to keep everyone related to all 83 stores employed in those ways, but they might be able to flip some of them. And being able to retain any of these people during a pandemic is really good news for those people.

Starting point is 01:14:14 Yeah. And being able to transition those people to potentially working from home is also kind of a cool idea. Some of the Microsoft stores will apparently be reimagined as Microsoft Experience Centers in London, New York City, Sydney, and Redmond. That might even be a better idea. Oh man, there's like so much news this week. We didn't even talk about this yet.

Starting point is 01:14:33 NVIDIA releases the first driver with DirectX 12 Ultimate support and hardware-accelerated GPU scheduling. Also, there's a Windows update that shows your GPU temps, right? And Task Manager, that's so cool. So this is really good news for RTX card owners, making RTX variable rate shading and mesh shading easier for developers to implement. That's great.

Starting point is 01:14:50 They also support hardware accelerated GPU scheduling, which allows the GPU to directly manage VRAM. Sweet. Microsoft says this lowers latency and can lead to higher minimum FPS numbers. Love it. And there was just one more thing that I wanted to talk about. We didn't even talk about

Starting point is 01:15:05 the whole apple arm thing but that's okay i did a dedicated video about that reaching a million people by the way luke um uh wait no i guess that's it was it just like a super chat thing that i had wanted to talk about uh steam summer sale uh steam summer sale rip your wallet civ six is 15 bucks um oh you gotta be you gotta be kidding me i just paid 80 canadian dollars for it uh you may be able to uh ask for a refund and uh they they will basically give you the difference between the discounted price yeah it's called price protection yeah i can i can apply for price protection i may i may just do that because that's a lot of money anyway there's also a bunch of other interesting discounts it's the steam summer sale almost every discount is going to be the same as almost every

Starting point is 01:15:55 other steam sale but there is some cool stuff in there man there's even super chats about how doomed retail is macy's apparently cutting staff i just saw in the news a couple days ago, GNC filing for bankruptcy and closing 1,200 stores. So that's like one of those supplement vitamin places. Chuck E. Cheese. No! Chuck E. Cheese? Not Chuck E. Cheese!

Starting point is 01:16:20 Chuck E. Cheese. Parent company closed 34 locations permanently. Whoa! I went there a little while ago the one in langley it was pretty bad it's like they haven't really done anything they had that story about reusing pizza and stuff too yeah yeah crash crawlies crash crawlies. Actually, their food's pretty bad too. Anyway, sorry. Back to Super Chats here. Pro Gogurt says,

Starting point is 01:16:53 how do you think the PS5 SSD will compare to Optane? I mean, it's such an apples to oranges comparison. Optane is all about low latency and the PS5 SSD is all about low latency and the ps5 ssd is all about uh architecting um the whole system so that games have direct access to the data on it so it's just like it's just not the same thing at all so to speak uh aj35 lightning says would you consider dailying

Starting point is 01:17:22 the new xperia 1 actually yeah um I would definitely consider it because the one thing my Note 9 does not do well these days compared to newer phones is the camera is falling behind a little bit. Core Maximus says, 90 days after purchase purchase netgear charges a hundred dollars for phone support to file an rma really wish i didn't buy a nighthawk after seeing your sponsored vid i'm really sorry to hear that is there a reason you didn't file an rma online though you got to understand i mean i'm not saying this is right that's horrible and they shouldn't do that but netgear is more of like a b2b um slash uh yeah business to business company and so it's pretty normal for you to have paid phone support after a very short period of time for those types

Starting point is 01:18:12 of products and i think this is one of those cases where they just don't really fully understand that when you're selling to consumers you like actually can't do that um so yeah raise a stink complain try and get a refund but it doesn't surprise me much, but that also doesn't mean that it's necessarily a bad product. I'm sorry. Yours was a DOA though. Uh, Ludo says I'm already paying on float plane. Hi from Quebec. You inspired me to work in it and leave the field because I liked it better as a hobby

Starting point is 01:18:38 LMAO. You know, I don't even, I don't even blame you. Don't even blame you. Yeah. What else have we got here uh muhammad says since ten dollars thanks for the free bottle replacement after the paint job faded it's not free anymore if you send a ten dollar super chat dude uh general disregard says uh gotta keep the personal protective wait no ppt what's PPT performance on point? PPT? What is PPT performance, Luke? Help me out.

Starting point is 01:19:10 Performance product technologies? Oh, PowerPoint. Oh, that's probably when we're talking about the Intel thing. All right, fair enough. Oh, what else we got? In the Intel slides, it compared a 3400G with integrated graphics versus an i3 with a dedicated GPU. I actually didn't even notice that. I'd have to look closer at them to validate that. But all right. Thanks, Christian Johnson.

Starting point is 01:19:32 Let me have a look. Is there anything else? Josh asks, how can floatplane succeed when Mixer and Microsoft cannot? Yes, it's different, but floatplane was just included in the same category. Let's hear it. Well, Floatplane, for better or for worse, hasn't really found its calling yet. I mean, I think if Luke and I had said two years ago, you know what, let's do an OnlyFans type concept, Floatplane could absolutely be a gigantic platform today. It's not a deficiency of the actual video delivery technology. It's just a matter of us figuring out sort of what the identity needs to be. Because I think the earlier vision was that creators would just kind of decide what the identity was.

Starting point is 01:20:16 But that seems to have kind of made our messaging unclear. We still have work to do on the site anyway and the thing about float plane is that massive shout out by the way to our float plane pilots and all the people who follow slash subscribe slash whatever we call it um on float plane to linus media group and to the other creators we have on there like bitwit tech deals uh ufd uh forgotten weapons is one that's actually been crushing it on the platform lately uh he's uploaded he's uploaded look at this he's uploaded 10 videos in the last week and just like killing it there i already watched a lot of his content but now i watched like a lot a lot of his content really cool stuff really cool stuff um a fun one about that i don't i don't know worst ak ever i'm gonna go into it anyways but um a fun one about that is that i can watch his

Starting point is 01:21:15 content with my grandpa right and my grandpa will play that yeah and he'll he'll like add in his own like experience or knowledge of those firearms and whatever else as well and that's really interesting too so that's it's it's made this like cool loop where i just like email my grandpa videos from him and go like oh i thought this one was cool because of these reasons and where your grandpa actually understands what you do for a living even though you're like a developer it's pretty much the only thing that's been able to like bring us together in that way it It's been kind of cool. That is very cool.

Starting point is 01:21:48 Cause I remember your grandpa was not super approving of like our shenanigans in the early days with a knife at one point. That was very awkward. Yeah, that was, that was really not great. He also, when I made the, uh, I don't know if the audience knows this, but when I made the fallout bomb video um he took that a little seriously instead of just like that i built a computer inside of a a thing a prop from a video game because the authorities might come for you and stuff and i'm like it's okay it's okay gramps they're a little bit more calm about internet stuff these days Everyone's alright So yeah

Starting point is 01:22:26 Because of the supporters that we have Over there now we can take our time We don't have to worry about like Oh you know we're losing money Well we gotta sell this thing Or we gotta you know go raise a bunch Of venture capital from people who are gonna Pressure us to sell it or pressure us to

Starting point is 01:22:42 Change it in ways that we don't agree with Or whatever the case may be We can take time. We can figure out what it is. You know, I'll say it outright. Like, I would not be against bringing on a controversial figure like Dr. Disrespect, or I would not be against... We have to know what happened first. Yeah, I guess I wouldn't mind knowing what happened but in general we are not looking to shy away from controversial figures and i don't even think we would shy away from someone who's posting explicit stuff either like it's it doesn't really have an identity and that was sort of intentional um but we'll see whether we decide to change that in the future and and kind of rebrand it in some

Starting point is 01:23:22 way or whether we decide to leave it the way that it is. Right, yeah. So that's my long answer to that question. Eric Jackson says, can I get a shout out for Adored TV? He was even on one of those video card slides. There it is. Shout out to Adored TV right there.

Starting point is 01:23:40 Yeah. And I think that's pretty much it for the show. Thank you guys very much for tuning in. A ton of you watching today. Holy smokes. Over 3,000 on Twitch, over 13,000 on YouTube. And then I still don't have a live viewer counter on offload plane Luke. I'm sure you're working on that. So however many on offload plane.

Starting point is 01:23:57 Yeah. However many on offload plane. Actually a lot more than we used to have. I can just tell by all the chat activity. So thanks for tuning in guys. We'll see you again next week same bad time same bat channel bye

The WAN Show - Intel... What the HECK are you DOING?? - WAN Show June 26, 2020

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