The WAN Show - Let's talk about the Mac Stand... - WAN Show June 7, 2019

Episode Date: June 8, 2019

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Um, do you want the camera to be adjusted? Oh. Yeah, we've got a little bit too much headroom. Do you mind? Oh my god. That's good. Yeah. And we're live, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the WAN Show. Luke is cavorting about in Asia, so he couldn't join us, but that's okay.

We have Budget Luke. Sorry, is it Discount Luke? It's Discount Luke, sorry. Cavort. Jump or dance around excitedly. I hope he's cavorting. Oh, I'm pretty sure he's cavorting. He loves hanging out over there. I'm pretty sure that's the only reason that he wanted to go to Computex. Luke, if you're watching, I'm on to you.

It's the only time he cavorts. Yes, the only time he cavorts. I rarely cavort, but when I do, it's in Asia. He actually can't really cavort over there, because a lot of the time the ceilings are too low. Oh, I thought you were going to say he would squish people. Yeah, that's true. Like he'll step on them. Like, little aunts. Yeah, yeah, he really does stand out there. Get back, I'm cavorting! In a very real way. So yeah, we've got a really great show for you guys today, and I'd love to tell you about it except my

laptop is updating, so maybe James can tell us what some of the great topics we have are. We're going to talk about our favorite things from WWDC. I actually do have some favorite things from WWDC. Like, not everything was bad. Okay, no spoilers though. Okay. And remember when YouTube was down last weekend? Remember when the LAN show was supposed to go up last weekend?

There's lots of things. Conspiracy. And AMD and Samsung partner up for ultra low power graphics in possibly mobile phones. All that and more. At 11. News at 11. Roll the intro.

This is great. I just like the timing. Someone messages, how rich is Linus in the chat and someone super chats 99 cents Not so much. He doesn't appreciate this. It's actually less than 99 cents because YouTube takes a cut of that. Oh They take a cut of super chat course video. How much it's not like 30% Seven no, I think it's more than that Yeah, I actually don't know. Super chats, while we definitely appreciate people's generosity, are not really a needle mover for us.

And part of it is that YouTube does take a significant portion of it. So Super Chat, YouTube portion. Sorry, I have to look this up, because I actually don't know. How much money does YouTube take from Super Chats? This is an article on Stream Geeks, and I should probably be looking it up on my laptop now that it's

not updating anymore, and then I could actually share this with you. I thought we were directing all the Super Chats to Brandon now. No, no, that was just that one time. Hey, Brandon, you got your free lunch, right? Yeah. Okay, good. Just checking. Those one time. Hey, Brandon, you got your free lunch, right? Yeah.

Okay, good. Just checking. Those Super Chats moved the needle for you? Guys, please continue Super Chats, please. He got a free lunch out of it, so that's pretty good, I guess. Nice. All right. How much money does YouTube take from Super Chats?

Wow, this is a really long article for just like... Search on dollar sign. A formula. Search on percent. Control F. You have seen our 100% YouTube live chat blah blah blah uh okay when i clicked the estimated revenue in youtube's analytics it was roughly 30 less than the total super chat amount um so they take a 30 cut of super chats through youtube that's exorbitant well yes and no it's exorbitant hold on a second yes and no it's's exorbitant. Hold on a second. Yes and no.

It's not quite that simple because for one thing, Google, while they do use their own payment processor, which saves them a lot, if they were using a third-party payment processor, you could be looking at as much as 30 cents or more per transaction plus a percentage of the transaction. So even if I was just using Stripe or Braintree to take a dollar from you over the internet, thank you very much, I would still be giving 30% of that, over 30% of that to my payment processor. This is something that we've learned the hard way as we've developed Floatplane. Luke's not here, so we're not going to talk about Floatplane a ton today,

but my apologies to the Floatplane fans out there. Only blockchain can save us. Save us, blockchain. Yeah, but the transactions aren't even free with crypto. Some cryptocurrencies have very high transaction fees, especially if you want the transaction to go through in a reasonable amount of time. Yes, I know it depends,

but some of the more commonly used ones have extraordinarily high transaction fees. Whatever, man. It's the future. All right. It's hard to have a real conversation. But then, I mean, you don't cost as much as Luke. So discount conversation. I don't.

Okay, no one wants to have a blockchain conversation right now. I just wanted to make the joke and leave it at that. Okay, that that's fair. You know, um, Bitcoin's up, what, like 60% this year, though? Uh, last I checked, it was, is it like 10 grand? I don't, I don't know. Honestly, I'm like, See, now we're having a blockchain conversation. I'm, I'm

out. It's 8 grand. It's 8,000 US dollars. So, I'm, I'm out. I don't care anymore. So, I'm, I'm actually trying not to pay too close attention to it i'm just like you know what forget it you guys enjoy your crypto thing call me when it's actually manageable to integrate as a payment system uh call me when you know the canadian banks and the canadian government have all decided on a way to deposit and withdraw this stuff and not have everything disappear mysteriously in a weird town in India

where people are known for going to fake their own deaths. You heard about that, right? That specific one, no. So what's the crypto exchange that went down? The one that was based out of here. Oh, what was that called? I don't know. They all have the same name. Uh, out of business, owner, died. Hold on, what was it? Quadriga. Yeah, Quadriga. So, it's a 30-year-old CEO and co-founder died of complications arising from Crohn's disease while traveling in India,

supposedly, except the circumstances of his death. Respirious. Yeah. Did that ever come to a conclusion? I don't believe it has at this point, but I haven't been paying really close attention to it because, like I said, I'm out. I hope he's alive. I really do.

Like, over $ million dollars of assets. Like are you saying you've never fantasized about faking your own death? It's just such a funny thing to think about. It's illegal as far as I know, isn't it? I think it is. Yeah, I mean, you know the thing is that you know most of the people who do it, you know never get prosecuted because they're actually dead. I love how there's like a mecca for this like if you want to fake your death come here how can you have a good fake

if everyone knows oh he died in that town no one really dies there like their whole newspaper is obituaries like fake news yeah so i don't know like there's a place there's a place there i forget what the town is called or like like the area is called but they're really well known for document forgeries including things like birth certificates and death certificates and that happened to be and this could be a tin foil hat conspiracy theory in fact youtube chat is probably blowing up being like i personally oh wow it is blowing up like i personally saw the dead body or whatever like good for you uh so yeah like i said it's possible this is all nonsense it's a hub for makeup artists um but it's it's possible someone says not illegal you have the

right to disappear yeah you can disappear but you can't um you can't forge a death certificate because that is a legal document. So that would be about like forging a land deed. Like you can't do that. And because there are such large incentives for some people for faking their own death, there's definitely laws that make it so you can't do do that faking your death is sometimes called pseudocide pseudocide that is great i like that that's cute that's clever wow well don't know if it's illegal or not yet but how about apple stuff how about it how about it all right well why don't we why don't we bring up the WWDC? News and kind of kind of talk through some of our the WAN doc favorite things the WAN doc Why would I go to the WAN doc? There's links there in I know but the people who work on that they just don't do a very

good job It's funny because he's the one who works on the WAN doc, all right. All right. All right. All right. So There's like nothing in here. I said follow the links. The links? I didn't build this out because you already made videos about this. You know this, we all know this stuff. All right, so should we start with the Mac Pro?

Now I've kind of said everything that I wanna say about the Mac Pro. Oh, actually, I do have a couple small corrections from the video that I made earlier this week. So I had speculated that the very low-end system configurations that only have four sticks of memory might not support six-channel memory. Right, I missed it. Intel announced their 3000 series Xeon W lineup that was going to be the processors in the Mac Pro, and it does go all the way down to eight cores. And Apple apparently confirmed that, no, there will only be one motherboard. So they're just shipping a six-channel motherboard, six-channel CPU,

and they're just putting four sticks of memory in it because six grand for eight and eight core processor makes a ton of sense. Now from like an optimization standpoint what does that mean? It means that you're getting effectively 66% of the memory bandwidth that you otherwise would. Now with that said you've only got a piddly 8-core processor, so who cares, I guess, because it's not like a 28-core where you could legitimately have a workload you're running on it that needs all of that memory bandwidth.

You just don't have the compute to justify it anyway. But I also just don't think that an 8-core configuration of this machine should exist. It doesn't make sense. Like, so much of the price of this thing is making up for the R&D of the case design, it seems to me, that you're just not getting any value on the low end. On the low end,

I think there's people already defending it, but I don't understand these people, because on the low end, you should just be buying a latest-gen i it has an eight core processor ecc memory it's a really it's a really interesting feature because i even went as far so we published a very negative review of intel's previous uh xeon w lineup the one that was based on their LGA 2066 platform. And what Anthony and I concluded, and I ultimately said in the video, was these things are a rip. Buy an HDDT processor because the only differentiating factor is that they support ECC memory, which if you really needed it, well, AMD supports ECC up and down their entire

lineup, all the way from Threadripper down to Ryzen 3. So if you absolutely must have that, there might be an AMD option for you. Go check that out. And you lose overclocking support, which depending on your workload might actually make sense because you're using their C620 whatever chipset instead of their X299 chipset, which has overclocking support built into it. So we ultimately concluded that you were paying anywhere from 500 and over dollars for a trade-off in features

that may or may not have any value to you. And Intel was upset about my conclusion because they said, actually you know Xeon W is good for workstations and I went why is it good and they said well because it's made for workstations and I said well what makes it made for workstations exactly and they said well it has ECC support and I said well that's nice what does that do for me because here's the thing the perception for a lot of years was that Intel Xeon processors were somehow better than their consumer equivalents and there have been times when they actually were but over time the R&D

cost to make a new CPU design has become such an enormous part of the cost of a processor that by the time you've done all that R&D it's actually cheaper to just make the same CPU and put it under two different brands with some features turned on or turned off and a feature that you would turn off would never be stability. Like it is not, think about it. It is not in Intel's interest for their core series processors to crash once every 422 hours.

To what end? So Intel can talk about how Xeon W is really stable. But if you ask, well, is Core i9 not stable? They just kind of... Yeah, it's stable. And it is. So what I asked them to do was, okay, guys, let's talk about ECC.

I want to do a video where you guys take me to like, you know, Sandia National Lab or something. And we simulate a solar event. We flip a bit. a solar event, we flip a bit. We actually flip a bit on a memory chip and show that this system recovered from it and this one didn't. And they were like, we can't do that. Like they physically can't do that? They don't have the instruments to do that?

They wouldn't clarify. Okay. They were just like, we can't do that. And so I said, well, then my conclusion about your processor, given that there is no meaningful demo. I also, before we got as far as going to a laboratory and doing this, I asked, well, give me a demo. Give me something I could do on these two machines

that shows that this one is more stable than this one And they were like we don't have any workload like that. I kind of went Okay Thanks guys Like the thing you got to understand is that ECC does do something in the event of an accidental bit flip It is supposed to recover from it the thing is that each subsequent generation of ddr technology has also added more resiliency against accidental errors so i'm not saying it doesn't have a value today i'm just saying that

it's not a value that even intel was able to design a test for me to be able to demonstrate um so it's the people I talked to there. If anyone from Intel is watching and knows a way that we can do this, yo, HMU as the kids say, right? I'm almost as old as you now, man. Yeah, well, fair enough. Yeah, and you're going to be, wait, is that public knowledge or no? Yes.

Oh, okay, and he's going to be a dad too. Yeah. He's going to be the second dad at linus media group i was gonna say second parent but my wife works here she's also a parent that's true she's very obvious she's yeah she's a parent oh that was great oh let me i'm gonna let that wash over me for a second yeah so it's like a feature that is over-serving most people and being disrupted by the same company's other features. Yes. Anyway, I forget where I was going with this.

Right, you should just buy an iMac, because it's a faster 8-core. Even thermal throttling, I think it's still faster than this Xeon W, because whatever or something. And then that even ignores the iMac Pro, which starts at five grand. And I think, what does its core count start at? I feel like we need to go look at that now.

iMac Pro, Apple, USA. I don't think this is going to take me to the US site. No, it's not. Well, whatever. We'll just do it manually. Thank you very much for that. The prices? I love how this stuff is always automatic. You don't need the prices right now. No, I do need the prices because the Mac Pro is going

to start at $6,000. So if we have a look at where the iMac Pro starts, because remember, these are not the same processors. They fit in an entirely different socket. But from a performance standpoint, I don't believe Intel has changed anything. Like clock speed for clock speed, core for core, they should be quite similar. So let's go ahead and have a peeky-boo at what we get for this. So we get a 3.2 gigahertz Xeon W that turbos to 4.2. And what do we get with the Mac Pro? We get a 3.5 that turbos to 4.2. And what do we got with the Mac Pro?

We got a 3.5 that turbos to 4.0. So let's configure it. We've got a grand to spend because they both come with 32 gigs of RAM in the base configuration. And no, this one has a one terabyte SST out of the box. Of course it does. Right, so we can add another two freaking cores. And I'm not saying the imac pro is a perfect

machine i'm just saying it also happens to include a display with a stand and it'll outperform the base model mac pro on paper we will have to actually test that we might have to crack open our imac pro again oh stop cracking it put like different processors stop cracking it. Put like different processors in there. Stop cracking it, please. Oh, I know. I know. And just, oh man, I think the graphics card is the most embarrassing thing about this stock configuration. Really? A 580X.

Let's fire up leneweg.com. Now I know it's a Radeon Pro or whatever, but you guys got to, that is a, that is a, that, no. That is just a driver switch that AMD flips. It is the same bloody card. 580X, hold on a second. Yeah, I'm working on it, I'm working on it.

So what does a 580X cost these days? Here's an MSI armor whatever two hundred dollars like we're talking a two hundred dollar graphics card in a system that costs six grand so basically the message that apple is sending with this base configuration is buy this if you're the kind of like ego images everything moron that wants to have a Mac Pro as a status symbol, but actually doesn't care at all about what's under the hood of it. At all. Yeah.

That's the message. It's like being like, oh, I need a Mercedes to impress the ladies. And everyone else is like, yeah, it's the cheapest one. Yes. But as long as the ladies don't know that i guess you're good then you're good so as long as it's still great cheese ladies who aren't into cars um what what else did i did i want to say about the mac pro right okay so we know it's all the same socket so um no you don't get a different motherboard it's just stupid now i've had people

say well what if you want to upgrade in the future? Well, then you should use your current machine for now, and you should upgrade when you order. Because upgrading computers is very rarely a good idea. Now, I'm not saying you should get the, you know, most loaded out memory configuration. In fact, there's a good chance that companies like OWC or iFixit are going to have kits that you can use to upgrade that stuff for much cheaper. I'm just saying that you're basically buying a processor that you then are just going to put in a bin. And trust me, no one else is going to want it because the kind of motherboard that's going to fit an LGA3647Z on W W is gonna cost $500, $600.

Nobody buys a board like that and puts a cheapo eight core processor in it. That's stupid. It's an imbalanced machine. That's my point. It's six grand, it's got a throwaway processor, a throwaway graphics card, and memory that, honestly, let's see, it's gigs so what is that is that 8 gig

sticks so that limits your total upgradeability as well because it's only got 12 memory slots so 32 times 3 is what like 96 96 gigs of ram like that's probably lots but you're better off getting 16 gig sticks because that doubles the overall expansion. Like if upgradeability is what you've got in mind, don't buy parts that you have to throw away and that no one will ultimately want. So why do you think Apple makes this SKU? They make the SKU for the ego people. Do you think it's their most profitable build out?

No. No, I think they're absolutely- But it's just because people will buy it? I think that they are trying to maintain not just a profit margin, but also a GP dollars profitability to this product. Because my understanding... What do you mean by GP dollars? Gross profit dollars.

Okay. So they just want to have coverage as wide a swath of the market as possible. Yeah. So they want to hit the lowest price point they can while still making what they would have expected to make regardless of which SKU they sell on the core components that they're selling, which are ultimately the case, a license for Mac OS, which is ultimately tied to the main board, sorry, the logic board. But if that's the case, then this, and if this product is overlapping performance-wise

with the other products, as you just showed us, then it's cannibalizing those other products. To me, that doesn't make sense unless it's the case that at Apple, those teams are kind of segregated, and each team is responsible for getting as much gross profit on its product line and their competing teams. I doubt it works that way.

I think Apple's a little bit smarter and a little bit more organized than that. I suspect that the only reason they wouldn't care about this cannibalizing their other products is that it's more profitable or as profitable. So ultimately, it doesn't matter what you buy. And I would suspect, based on the loadout of something like an iMac Pro. I suspect that this is a higher margin product Even if they are assembling it in the US as I I think they had committed to doing don't quote me on that though, okay? So so yeah, they just have a they just have a base amount of GP dollars that they need to make in order to make this product make sense

for their shareholders and well, screw you. You get to buy a config that doesn't make any sense. Because remember too, imagine this. Imagine if it didn't start at 6,000. Imagine if it started at 13,000. People would be outraged about that too. And instead of it just being nerds like me that are going to break down the spec and go well this is imbalanced this doesn't make sense

um you know you've effectively you've effectively bought you know uh um that x forma case that we showed the like 1300 case and you know put an an entry-level CPU and graphics card in it, like you're an idiot. The people who are mad right now are the giant nerds. Whereas if they announced a product that started at $13,000, everyone would be mad. Right, their common customer would feel alienated. That's right.

Now it seems attainable, even though what you're buying is essentially stuff to throw away and upgrade later if you are intending to do any serious work with it. Okay. How about the monitor, though? Yeah, we can talk about the monitor. So... I can't wait to see it.

It's going to be a great monitor. Let's say that. It's going to be a great monitor. Let's say that. It's going to be a great monitor. Oh, the monitor I'm pretty excited about, actually. Now, Brandon was actually telling me about a really interesting post that someone created where their main problem with the monitor was not necessarily its hardware capabilities,

but whether or not Apple was going to adhere to any of the existing standards for HDR Because if Apple comes in and says okay, we're competing with the the Flanders of the world You know, we're talking thirty thousand plus dollar displays So this person's problem with it at that point was it doesn't have enough local dimming zones. It's gonna have bloom It's just it's simply not suitable Versus if Apple was coming in and they wanted to compete with sort of the more average creation monitors, they were saying that, well, Apple needs to just be aware of and adhere to standards like HDR 10 that already exist instead of, you know, forging their

own path with this, what did they call it? XDR, extreme dynamic range or something like that. I can't remember exactly what their wording was for it. Now, I think that with like Apple isn't perfect, but they tend to be good at designing an end-to-end workflow. What I suspect is that right around the time this Mac Pro launches, they're going to have some new workflow tools within Final Cut, within macOS, that are going to make working with HDR content easier. And I think that they're going to have to acknowledge that there are standards like HLG, HDR10, Dolby Vision, that already exist and that they have to make their tools work for. I am not as pessimistic as that person was,

but I also am not as well-versed in it as they are. So I'm going to be really interested to see how this goes and how long this display is even that interesting for oled only has to get a little bit brighter to make more sense because remember it's high dynamic range not necessarily how many nits you can pump through a display um so oled only has to get a little bit brighter before for my for myself i'd rather be editing i'd rather be creating on something that has no bloom. And 570, is it 576 zones? 532?

I can't remember how many it was, but. On a 32 inch. Yeah, that's a lot of zones on a 32 inch, but it's sure as heck not an emissive display technology. We actually, we checked out a display with 512 zones just yesterday. On a 35 inch. On a 35 inch. And so it's not quite an apples to apples comparison, but would you say based on what you saw that Apple's 500 to 600 class display on a 32 inch is going to be sufficient for like real color accurate contrast accurate color work no it depends on okay well it depends on the aggressiveness because on the display that you

and i looked at it was which was the pg35b sometimes known as bq um it had such aggressive um local dimming that there was always bloom. You could really see when you moved the cursor from one little one-inch, one-inch zone to another. You missed when we were playing Tomb Raider, didn't you? I played it myself earlier, but I wasn't there with you. Did you play any scenes with really high contrast? A little bit. Okay.

I didn't notice any problems when I was gaming. Okay, because I was really impressed with how well it did when gaming. It was only when... On the desktop, it sucked. I think sucked is probably about the right word. Yeah. Yeah. It sucked. Yeah.

All I'm saying is, like, even with that many zones, 500 zones in that size, they're still, like... They were about an inch by an inch. They're still an inch by an inch. That's still pretty big. It's big, yeah. And Apple's is going to be smaller. But not that much smaller.

Not that much smaller. No, like maybe 0.8 of an inch or 0.85 of an inch. 10% smaller or something like that. So, because remember too, we're talking about a 35-inch display, but it's a 35-inch 21 by 9 display. That is not, in terms of actual display surface area, that's not as much bigger as it sounds compared to a 32-inch. Is it 16x9?

9 or 10. I actually don't remember. But you even see bloom on OLEDs. I think it just has to do with the perception of the eye, though. That's true. That's true. You do see some bloom on OLEDs but like you said I think part of it is just the eyes contrast capabilities yep um and that's actually another thing that's another

reason why I do question how much brighter OLED really has to get for the HDR experience to be really really good on it because we're already at the point now where the brightest whites on an oled right next to the blackest blacks like my eye has a hard time seeing that line yeah so if we want something like a like a candle burning in the middle of the dark room if we want it to bleed out if that's the filmmaker's desired effect i mean are we that far? I just don't know how much more work is going to be put into OLED because it seems like microLED is kind of looming in the three- to five-year horizon now. And Apple is one of the companies doing it.

They're investing really heavily in it as far as the public is aware anyway. Yeah. I don't know how big of displays they're planning on making with it, though. It's supposed to be pretty scalable, though, right? That's one of the selling points of micro led i believe is that it's kind of like you can just scale it up or down now this was a really fun conversation that i actually had with some of the folks at nvidia and i don't believe yeah no there's nothing about this that would have been off the record or nd8 or anything like that. But I was, and pardon my ignorance,

every once in a while I get something completely wrong. So I was under the impression that when we talk about micro-led technology, you know what, we really need to do our sponsor spots because we are running out of time on the WAN show here today. So let me get into that. What a cliffhanger.

Sorry, guys. I'm not doing this to you just to be a jerk or anything. Turning blue here. Okay. Holding my breath, waiting for you. Sponsors are Honey. Join Honey.com and start saving on your internet shopping today. It's free.

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Someone turned us off over here. Hello? Hello? Are we still streaming? I think we're still streaming. Now you guys can't see, but Lance is trying to kiss me right now. Uh, no, I think it's the CASA module, Brandon.

Lights are turning on in the bedroom right now. Lights are on behind me. Are we on? Camera's right now lights are on behind me Cameras on now I kind of like this dark mode Yeah, sorry these lights take a little bit to turn back on guys anyway I'll be a freaky story move on to happen to a friend of a friend of yours way Pulse way is the real-time remote monitoring and management tool that lets you fix problems on the go by sending commands from any mobile device. It's compatible with Mac, Windows, and Linux, and Pulseway's single app gives you remote desktop functionality as well. You can get access to real-time status, system resources, logged-in users, network performance, Windows updates, and more,

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used it. Oh, really? Oh, that's cool. Very cool. Alright. So let's go. What was I talking about? You're about to tell me the thing about microLED. Okay. So every once in a while, I get something completely wrong. Okay, so every once in a while I get something Completely wrong and micro lead is one of them

Okay, so my first exposure to micro lead in the real world was Sony's That's pretty hot that's pretty hot Is there is there a reason we don't just turn on the normal ones? They're turning on. They just take like 10 minutes. Oh, are you sure? But I don't know if they're turning on. I don't know if they take 10 minutes.

We'd see them glowing by now. I don't think they're on. I'm happy with this. It looks cool. Yeah, all right. So my first exposure to microLED was... Although I'm not the one looking in the light. ...was with the Sony Cletus display.

Yep. And have you heard of the Cletus? Yeah, yeah. It was at CES. Oh, did you see it? I wasn't there that year. But they had it the next year, didn't they? Okay, so the Cletus display is really trippy

because the way that it, it's like a modular display, and we've seen technologies like this before, but it's a unique one because it's got these panels that are about this big, and then you just assemble them together into whatever size and resolution display you want. Now that's not unique. What's unique is that the Cletus display uses an emissive display technology like OLED except it's not OLEDs it's micro LEDs. Okay so they've got these tiny tiny micro LEDs red green and blue and they emit directly from the

display so there's no backlight or anything like that but the way that they achieve near-perfect blacks on a Cletus display is that I forget what the exact number is but it's it's like made of black dots no no no it's not like a bunch of black dots that you can see if you go really close to it no it's like an illusion when you back up uh it's a little bit different than that though so they actually allowed me to go up to it uh here i'm just yeah i remember everyone was uh everyone was tense i'm like, don't go that close. Okay, ultimate picture, blah, blah, blah. Where is it? Okay.

Oh, where's the... Here we go. Okay, right. So the reason they can get nearly perfect blacks out of it is that 99% of the Cletus display doesn't emit light. Weird. It's just, it's actually black So you're looking at this giant display made that that emits light their micro LEDs

They're super bright, but they're actually tiny their micro LEDs and all the area around them is just Black are they clustered or are they spread out with lots of black in between they look like this Yeah, okay. Yeah, so you've got a red green and a it's either a blue or yellow I actually don't remember but you've got three sub pixels for each pixel and the vast majority of the display is actually black But because of the way that light spreads from a source You actually have to get about 18 inches from the screen in order for and it's weird your eyes like go weird as you move through the threshold kind of click in and then all of a sudden you go from seeing the entire image which has no perceivable gaps in it to seeing just these dots and they don't look like

anything they just look so trippy it's so weird okay so I thought that micro LED displays were specifically this technology Okay, I didn't ever stop and think about that a micro LED is just a small LED and you could do anything you wanted with it Yeah, I didn't think about that. There were other ways that people were planning to use micro LEDs Okay I didn't think about that there were other ways that people were planning to use micro LEDs. Okay. So I was talking to NVIDIA because they were talking about these displays that they've created with over 500 local dimming zones. And they were talking about, like, yeah, you know, we see a clear path forward because I'd love to see. Which NVIDIA displays have over 500 dimming zones? Well, the one that we just checked out, for one.

That's not NVIDIA. Well, okay. That was ASUS. Are you talking about the BFGDs? I'm talking about the NVIDIA driver module and the full-array backlight control module. That's NVIDIA that creates that. So, okay, that's actually an important point to clarify.

So they were talking about how going from 384 zones to over 500 zones to using mini LEDs to micro LEDs, they see this very clear technology progression. Whereas I love an OLED G-Sync display. And I was like, hey, you guys working on that? And they're kind of like, they're vague, right? They're evasive. We're working on everything. What are we? We like, you know, they're vague, right? They're evasive. We're working on everything. You know, we're a technology company.

What are we not working? Like, they basically, there's a total non-answer. And when I drilled down, where I ultimately, like, they wouldn't answer any questions about it. But what I ultimately realized is that because OLED is an emissive display with completely different characteristics in terms of color mixing at different brightnesses, making them color accurate, the way that the pixels switch, or rather they don't take a long time to switch. Like, NVIDIA would have to completely reinvent

the G-Sync module to run an OLED display. So when they were talking about this clear path forward to mini-LED and micro-LED, I totally misunderstood that they were talking about something like a Cletus display and a missive display using micro-LEDs. What they were actually talking about was using micro-LEDs to have a much greater degree

of granularity in a full array backlight. I see. Okay. So what they're looking for as a business then is evolution rather than revolution. It's like we have this tried and tested stuff. We just need to iterate to make it, you know, just do this, but do it harder. Do it smaller. Miniaturize it. So what I ultimately came away with was that

full array backlighting on LCD displays is Not going anywhere and where we're probably headed is many many many more zones Maybe where we get to the point where each zone is a mini LED or a micro LED so that the blooming becomes much less. I don't remember what my point was in all of this anymore. I think we were just talking about micro LED coming out eventually. Oh, right. Apple investing in it.

Right, yes. So micro LED coming out eventually, yes. But maybe not in the form that you might think because a micro LED display could be an emissive display, or it could just be really, really small LEDs, microLEDs, behind a regular old LCD panel. So, yes, microLED displays are coming. We just don't know exactly what form they'll take,

and after that meeting with NVIDIA, I had a better understanding. It doesn't make sense to keep them as transmissive displays, because when you have that many of them, well, it depends how many you have. If they're at almost the level of being like for each pixel is a zone, then the beauty of it is that you turn it off and you get the black levels of OLED. Yes.

Right? And the pixel response times because the reason that LCDs have higher pixel response times than OLED is that it actually takes time for the liquid crystal to twist. That takes time. And to untwist. Yes. And that's also related to why it's not as black.

Because even when it's fully twisted, some light's still going to get through. So why would you give up on all those awesome benefits? Because you've invested the last 25 years in LCD. Then get disrupted. And you know how they work. Get disrupted. But that's it. Because you know how they work. Get disrupted. But that's it, because you know how they work. Because a lot of the time you can build, even using an inferior technology,

you can build a better display when you understand the technology at play better. And so yes, get disrupted. But the flip side of that is Apple's display is already sort of groundbreaking in terms of its contrast and peak brightness and all that. The thing is $6,000. But so is a BFGD. What's the emissive one going to be? That's exactly my point. How disruptive is that technology going to be if it costs $50,000 or whatever? You know what I mean?

Well, they should eventually. It depends. They could end up in eventually. It depends. They could end up in phones. It'd be great in your watch. Yes. And I wonder if LG, I'm sure LG is also investing in it. It's just kind of interesting because they also are going so hard into OLED, but they don't want to be caught flat footed either, right?

No one wants to be caught flat footed. I think LG is still pretty heavily invested in OLED. Only time will tell. So we promised in the video thumbnail that we were going to talk about not just the monitor, but also the monitor stand. What monitor stand? The one for the one it doesn't come with. Yeah, the one it doesn't, the one it doesn't come with. So I guess the argument here is that like the very expensive, very, very expensive monitors that you referenced earlier, those don't come with stands either. And it's just not, like, in that category,

it's not industry standard to have a stand. Hey, Brandon. Yeah? Can you bring me something that's really stupidly overpriced? Like a handle or something. You know what I'm talking about, right? Oh, okay. Yeah, okay, Brandon's going to find something for us. This is going to'm talking about, right? Oh, okay. Yeah, okay.

Brandon's going to find something for us. This is going to be something related to a red. Okay. So can I play devil's advocate for a moment here? Please. I love Satan. Okay. So there's a...

You got something for me? I have two things. Okay. Yeah, that. Yeah. What else you got? How much is this? $12.95 for two.

This is $12.95 for two? Okay, wonderful. How much is this? Is that still how much it costs you ask a Canadian? Okay, three grand us. All right This is three grand. Okay, so we got it. We got a couple. We've got a couple things here. Okay, so When I buy a product My understanding is that it should come with pretty much everything that it needs to function. Right? Okay. Okay.

That's a very consumer-centric point of view. Now, I would say that if I were to graph out, now that I have experience in the professional world, if I were to graph out my expectation of like a cost versus included accessories curve okay I would say as the cost approaches zero your included accessories go down you expect a more bare-bones experience so the cost approaches as the cost of my original purchase approaches zero so if I buy the cheapest phone on the market I'm not that surprised it doesn't come with some headphones. Right?

Then, as I step up in cost, I expect my experience to be more and more complete. And when you buy something like a Galaxy S10, it's got your... We have a UPS on here. Yeah, we do. Theoretically, we're live. But the camera's dead. Can you guys make sure the camera's going to turn back on? Oh, yeah, camera's on.

I'm sorry, guys. We just had a short blackout. It's called a brownout. Uh, no no, it's called a brownout when it doesn't actually cut. Oh, when it just goes vroooom. Yeah. Um. A short blackout. Yeah. Wow.

We have to have a good name for that. Hey guys! A mini blackout. Um, sorry what was I talking about? You were describing an inverted parabola. Okay, yeah. So, so basically, you know, I expect to get my headphones, and they'll run bundles and stuff. So maybe it comes with a micro SD card for expansion and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And a fast charger. A fast charger. You know, like accessory bundles. Well, unless it's an iPhone. Yeah. And then as I spend more, and I get into professional grade rather than consumer grade gear, the manufacturer's expectation is that if you only have a little bit to spend, you expect very little.

If you have a moderate amount of money to spend, you expect a lot. And if you have a lot of money to spend, you probably don't care about the crap we were going to include anyway. And you're willing to pay more for a premium perfect option. So I think there's a certain level of F you, you've got the money anyway, pay more that goes on when it comes to professional level products. I don't think they would say that. I think they would say that. No, they wouldn't say it.

Because each piece is ostensibly so highly engineered and high quality and so expensive, you don't want to be paying for things you don't need. That would be the way they would say it. They wouldn't say F-U, but it's just implied. But if that were really the case, if they're really being altruistic, then there wouldn't be a $200 VESA adapter. It would just be standard. You could just clip it on there.

Yes. Okay. So let's talk about then. So again, playing a little bit of devil's advocate here. I don't think that Apple has missed the mark with their audience at all. We are talking about a six. You don't think they're outraging the same person they were afraid to outrage when we talked about the lower level?

I think they're going to outrage people, but I don't think those were the customer for this product at all We're talking about a six thousand dollar Monitor once you get the anti glare special etched glass coating We're talking about a six thousand dollar machine that it hooks up to at that point It is an eight percent difference in cost to get the pro stand hmm or just or or what percentage is that or we're talking like a 1.75 percent difference in cost to get a vase amount right 1.5 percent that's all we're talking about $200200 is nothing. People, people

who can afford that pee the $200. A grand. Not necessarily. Maybe they don't pee it, but maybe they can make that $200 back because this is a tool that they use for actual work. So I paid, how much did I pay for this the handle 1200 bucks for two for two a pair is 1200 okay so i paid 600 for this let's break it down a little bit uh here's a piece of machined aluminum here's a screw here's a little aluminum doohickey that you can twist uh here's a button another aluminum doohickey that you can twist. Here's a button, another aluminum doohickey. Here's a little adjusty doohickey with another little do that on it. Here's a rubber handle. Let's go, let's go. Okay, so $600. But I did this because there's nothing else on the market that has the

same level of ergonomics and build quality that allows us to operate the camera more comfortably so effectively i'm not buying some stupid aluminum doohickey i'm buying a solution i'm buying a camera operator who's back doesn't need cairo appointments every week that ultimately my company's health plan it's gonna pay for. That's what I'm buying. So it's a different perspective and when it comes to legitimate professional level gear, I'm not talking about an iPad Pro. That's not professional equipment. A MacBook Pro is not professional equipment anymore. People are doing real work on them but Apple has sullied that product line.

They have made it about a status symbol that you can use to browse Facebook. Hot take. More than just about actually getting real work done and delivering the best possible performance. Now, my thoughts may change when I actually haven't watched our review of the upcoming 8-core MacBook Pro. So I'm basing it on the one that thermal throttled last. Apparently, it's a lot better. But I'm talking about actual tools that actual professionals will buy

to actually make money with them. It's a different equation when you make money with something that you buy. At least cognitively, you can justify it. Sure. Also, if you make more money with it then objectively it's a good investment wow hey do you know how much employee health care costs 600 bucks whatever or like or like if

someone quit because i i wouldn't i wouldn't couldn't't provide the ergonomic equipment that they need to not be in pain. Do you know how much it costs to train a person? We're talking thousands and thousands of dollars in lost productivity. What, this makes them happy? All right. What do I care? Well, I want a better chair.

What chair do you have now? I'm just joking, actually. Okay, all right. I have had a really nice Herman Miller before at work. It was pretty cool. Should we wrap it up? Is that it? Super chats?

Can we do some super chats? Oh, we should really do some super chats. Just for YouTube's sake. Yes, yes. You know? Here, YouTube, here's your... Here, let's find the most expensive super chat. YouTube, can we get some... Here you go, YouTube. Here's 30 bucks from the most expensive Super Chat. YouTube, can we get some?

Here you go, YouTube, here's 30 bucks from Tyne and Dougdal. Hey Linus, Paradox Interactive of CK2EU4 made a music video for their upcoming Paradox Con. Will we get a music video for LTX? Will we get a music video for LTX? I have to confess, I had not given that one nanosecond of thought. Well, I can imagine us having footage from LTX placed over music, or with music,

and released as promotional material for the next one, but I don't think we're going to choreograph any dancing or get any sexy people in bikinis. We could put us in bikinis. Is that something I can make you guys do? Sexy people in bikinis. Yeah, I mean, make you guys do? I said sexy people in bikinis. Yeah, I mean, we're sexy, aren't we? Compared to what, Linus? BH Prototyping says, would you ever consider fully building

an entire production-grade computer case from scratch for a video in the future? Absolutely. In fact... We're doing that wood one. Are we? You okayed the wood case. Did I? Did I okay making it from scratch

no okay um actually yeah that is something that we would consider doing um it would have to be the right project i mean we have designed cases from scratch before my personal rig is in a completely custom designed case that was built by prot case Anthony Berg hi Joseph Thorne your hi Chad hi hey Chad blame the dingus more free super chat thank you J.R. Andrew Moss pack says do you think Apple will lock out the PCI ports I sincerely hope that they don't at least not directly I think what Apple will do is they will limit the availability of drivers for devices to ones that they weren plugged into those PCIe ports. Just like they do with the Blackmagic eGPU. Exactly. Just like you can't plug an NVIDIA graphics card into a MacBook because Apple

will not okay the drivers. To be clear, I actually had someone complaining in the comments on the Mac Pro video where I appeared to be blaming Apple for the rift between Apple and Nvidia to be clear I don't I suspect that between Nvidia and Apple you've got the two Biggest egos in the entire industry and it's no wonder they can't get along and it's probably equal parts both of their fault Actually, it's probably more Nvidia's fault because they they screwed Apple pretty good on those dying GPUs back in the day. Carpentry says, Canadian dollars for the merch store, please. Sorry, it's not going to happen anytime soon. The vast majority of our audience is in the U.S.,

and the ones that aren't, quite frankly, aren't in Canada either, and the U.S. dollar is kind of the international currency. Blame Shopify. We can't have multiple currencies. Oh, apparently it's Shopify's fault. We can't have multiple currencies. Oh, apparently it's Shopify's fault. We can't have multiple currencies on it. I'll double check, but I think... Oh, wow. You made me call out Shopify and you haven't double checked it.

Dang it, Nick. So you're saying you don't care. So you're saying you're rich, so you don't care. No, I'm saying that I use these products to make money. Think about it this way. You can apply the same logic to anything as A as a parent whose kids won't use it very often. I could say $75 radio flyer wagon is very expensive and I'm not gonna buy one

But if my if my son were to say I'm gonna get a job delivering newspapers I can deliver newspapers 30% faster with a radio flyer wagon. I could make back that money in seven days of delivering newspapers. Now it's not expensive. It costs the exact same amount of money. It's just a matter of measuring that amount that it costs against the ROI that it delivers for the business. It's a different calculation. It doesn't necessarily mean that you don't care

about what the cost is. It just means that there are other factors at play. Price is an arbitrary measure of value. So if you value it differently than someone else does because of your circumstances, then... Scott says, you crashed YouTube with last week's WAN show. Actually, this is two WAN shows in a row that they haven't managed to process correctly, so my intention today is to kill the live stream and then re-upload it as a VOD.

They promised me it's not going to happen again, but they also couldn't offer an explanation as to why it happened last week and why it took an entire week for them to fix it. Tyler Gaming says, I'm a Linux user. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Enjoy your very limited suite

of creative professional software. Like, come on, it's not that simple, you know that. Tommy Gun says, how's the 100K PC and personal rig doing? My personal rig's great. James helped me upgrade it again yesterday, so I'm super stoked on that. And 100k PC, we have a video coming very soon. We shot that this week.

Okay, I think I'm gonna call that it. Thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen, and we will see you again next week. Same bat time, same bat channel. Oh, I am blur. 20 bucks. Sorry, I will answer you. Do you know of a 2-in-1 or convertible laptop with pen support for drawing

that can also game at approximately medium settings? Wow. I wouldn't count on finding that. I would more look for something that has a good drawing surface that has Thunderbolt, and I would use an eGPU when you're gaming. I don't know what to tell you. Or I would wait for... Oh, I would wait for oh I would wait for wait what I would wait for a 10th gen they're gonna have better onboard graphics Alex PA prime from our editing team sent a super chat asking if this is a conflict of interest

sending the super chat what are are you even for $2? Are you even is I'm reporting him? I'm putting a user in timeout There timeout timeout. No. All right. Bye guys. Oh Wait what the what the deuce Rover? Yeah Rover apparently gets the whole thing Rover Red Rover false way, Rover apparently gets the whole thing. Rover. Red Rover. False Way. Honey. Us again.

Part of the intro. It's dead. And bye. And it's gone.