The WAN Show - Linux Sucks... And We Know Who To Blame - WAN Show March 1, 2024

Starting point is 00:00:00 what's up everyone and welcome to the WAN show we've got a great show lined up for you guys today yeah Linux it's got problems like no support for HDMI 2.1 but we know who to blame and it isn't the open-source community and actually it's not it's not AMD either in spite of the fact that it's their Radeon cards

Starting point is 00:00:24 that are having these problems they tried hard we know who to blame also nintendo sued yuzu the makers of the emulator yuzu this week we'll be talking a little bit about that be checking sure i'm rolling with it what else we got today lenovo launches repairable laptops cool very cool yeah also research reveals vision pros material cost and some people are super mad and some people are super happy and reactions are all over the place because i think people just really don't understand business yeah no oh 100 yeah yeah they really don't no no i don't even yet i think i get it more than most reactions to it it's all relative yeah

Starting point is 00:01:10 einstein's theory of business relativity where's the bug e equals a lot of people are kind of dumb the show is brought to you today by manscaped, The Ridge and Symbolic Software. Before people lose their minds, let's talk about the title of today's video. The HDMI Forum. The organization responsible for development of the HDMI specification has rejected AMD's request to add HDMI 2.1 Plus support to its open source Linux graphics driver. That's right, folks. For the last three years, GNU slash Linux users with AMD GPUs have not had support for 4K at 120 hertz through HDMI 2.1 because the hdmi forum restricted public access to its specifications in 2021 so only licensed manufacturers that pay both annual fees and royalties

Starting point is 00:02:35 are allowed to have access to the newest specifications now amd right clearly a licensed Now, AMD, right? Clearly. A licensed manufacturer had their legal team and Linux engineers work for months to devise a way to implement HDMI 2.1 Plus support in their open source driver without exposing the now private specs. Very honorable. But the forum still denied AMD's request for the open source for the open source driver support very dishonorable um really very annoying actually super annoying hdmi f**k off already oh i wish to be clear there are things that i like about it there are things that are very good about hdmi but i feel like they're kind of resting on the most important thing about hdmi which is its ubiquity at this point rather than extremely recognizable name rather than making hdmi just better to use like remember why we create standards for the users? No, that's not why we do it at all, is it? It can't be why.

Starting point is 00:03:48 We create standards to unify the current existing pool of too many standards. We make one more standard. That's better than all the rest of the standards. And then if we have the best standard, we make money. Yeah. So, there's a note from jacob here intel's arc a700 cards get around this problem because intel and some of their aibs add a protocol converter chip to the card to translate display port signals from the gpu into hdmi 2.1 signals which is insane shouldn't be necessary

Starting point is 00:04:22 it's crazy and you're paying for that and you are paying for that it adds it adds cost to the board because okay this is an assumption i would assume every hdmi output on that board would have to have one of those as opposed to even if there only had to be one you're still paying it would be a higher complexity one that's for sure yeah definitely definitely um the the only thing that's frustrating about this is that i often like hdmi just because i find it easier some display port plug like they're actually really annoying to plug unplug mostly but plug in as well kind of a pain in the butt the the the clamp connector thing doesn't really seem you can get ones that don't

Starting point is 00:05:03 have the lock on it they just kind of click in and then if you pull them hard enough they come out uh dell's been shipping those by default with their monitors for quite a lot of years now okay but my biggest issue with displayport is that sometimes it's auto handshaking can be a little shaky that too uh as you'll you'll have a system that is on you will plug you'll go from hdmi you'll unplug hdmi you'll plug in display port and it'll be like huh i don't even think it says huh it just does nothing nothing here display stays black you plug the hdmi back in it works um and you you reboot the thing and the display port works like it can just be a it can have it can struggle a little

Starting point is 00:05:44 sometimes i find display port also has significantly can just be a it can have it can struggle a little sometimes i find display port also has significantly more issues with the like monitor randomly goes black problem um which is super annoying very annoying to diagnose yep so our discussion questions here are why do you think the forum made this decision i mean i think we could kind of come up with some good reasons for it you know we could say well they want to maintain consistency in that experience and in order to do that you have to have you have to have everyone who's implementing the standard contributing monetarily to the standard to ensure that they can continue to develop the standard i mean look look i'm i'm making a devil's advocate argument and it's not a stupid one they

Starting point is 00:06:30 are amd licensed manufacturer they are though they are a licensed manufacturer sure but what they are effectively potentially opening up the pathway to is the potential for someone to implement the standard by kind of reverse engineering it from this open source implementation yeah reverse engineering specifically the thing i was going to leave that's the thing that they're afraid of but then i'm sitting here going okay but then, you know, AMD and Linux developers went and they put a bunch of work, they put a bunch of time into keeping the proprietary elements of the HDMI implementation separate from the open source part of that driver. But then, okay, hold on a second. Let's say you are, you're Luke. Oh, big assumption yeah you um uh you're kind of

Starting point is 00:07:28 you know the project lead of like an online uh video platform okay uh let's let's call it for sake for the sake of argument float plane it's i know it's stupid name but yeah weird name makes no sense yeah but but let's let's just go into that yeah it doesn't matter the point is we'll just we'll call it that don't worry about it yeah um someday you'll have a budget for a marketing department and they'll figure out a new one i don't know about that probably never yeah the point is that you're this guy okay and someone comes to you and they say hey um your drm okay for that that prevents non-paying customers from using your thing uh we found a way for people to use your thing on this like unsupported device by kind of integrating your DRM in a way that like we've done that makes it so

Starting point is 00:08:16 that, you know, they can't reverse engineer your DRM, but, but, but you told us how it worked. And so we kind of, we kind of put it in there and the rest of it's open source,

Starting point is 00:08:24 but that's like really separate um cool right maybe maybe probably a lot of work for you to go in and figure out if you did it right yeah and yeah so i understand the perspective, but I am not happy about it. And as generally someone who is supportive of things working as well as they can. Someone bought your product. Yeah, I was going to say, I don't... Someone bought your product. The comparison I think was pretty good, but... It wasn't perfect.

Starting point is 00:09:03 It wasn't perfect. But the point was that... Especially because these people already were able to use hdmi up until this spec so it's it's it's more that it was taken away kind of and so i understand there's a new purchase involved in this scenario i think for me if if the if the hdmi implementers forum if the hdmi forum so i can never remember all the names of these forums if the hdmi forum wanted to reach out to our inbox and say okay look here was the problem you know we had all of these devices that had this like reverse engineered hdmi 2.0 and they weren't

Starting point is 00:09:40 paying royalties and it was turning out that the implementation wasn't very good. It wasn't up to standard. And we were getting a lot of complaints. If you can provide me with some kind of documentation that demonstrates that this was necessary, that it was necessary to close this off because people weren't paying their fair share, and it was somehow harming the development of the standard and harming the user then you know all right i would at least be willing to hear that argument but i'm having a really hard time right now knowing that hdmi is already one of the most expensive port standards

Starting point is 00:10:21 to implement in fact i'm not aware of one that costs more maybe maybe something from apple maybe maybe apple's licensing for magsafe or lightning would be higher than hdmi i've heard lightning is pretty rough i'm legitimately not sure i don't know exactly what they are for either of them i know that hdmi is quite a burden on device manufacturers um and i know that that is compared to things like usb um things like um category uh i don't know what to call it whatever fits into an rj45 port all right if i call it ethernet people get mad because the ethernet could run over any physical... I know, but if I say Ethernet, do you know what I'm talking about? Okay. The point is that on a PC or on a piece of home theater equipment

Starting point is 00:11:13 or something like that, I can't... What, Toslink? I can't think of any other interface that has the same kind of costs associated with it. So you're already charging a lot you're already reaping enormous enormous revenues from the implementations of your standards so can you just calm the f**k down no we must be chaos i don't want peace I want problems there's the whole vote with your wallet question but

Starting point is 00:11:50 in the discussion questions it says in a tweet about the forum's decision Wendell, hi Wendell, Wendell's great from level one tech said to vote with your wallets how can consumers avoid supporting the HDMI forum when they are essentially paying for hdmi

Starting point is 00:12:06 license fees whenever they buy a device that has an hdmi port uh i would say that um they're probably also paying for uh hdmi license fees whenever you buy a cable you're you're you're paying hdmi um not necessarily may it depends so we have looked into cables okay while we haven't looked into port implementations we have looked into cable implementations because as you may or may not know in the background we've been working on cables yeah uh really good ones by the way and the way that it typically works is as long as you because the connector is the connector okay so as long as you have good conductors in a good configuration with good twists and good insulation and shielding right

Starting point is 00:12:54 a cable is just a cable and nobody can tell you you can't make that physical cable in the case of this is not official documentation in the case of hdmi and usbc i can tell you that much okay but what they can say is you may not put hdmi yes on the box or whatever logos and emblems and you can make no claims yeah so so these things are trademarked right uh and i'm sure tynan's going to jump in and and sort of um clarify some of this if he's in floatplane chat right now but the point is that you can pretty much make any pretty much anyone can make a cable and they're unlikely to get into any kind of trouble unless they violate a trademark like usb type c super speed ultra extra xl right or you know whatever they're calling crap these days but where was I going with this as for as for as for how to get around the as for how to get around supporting them then

Starting point is 00:13:53 no no there's pretty much nothing that you can do yeah if you if you do stop using it if you stop buying hdmi cables um i think that will make a difference genuinely because if device manufacturers are like no one's using hdmi right that's what i was saying uh is no i don't think it will make a difference because my in the box because no my understanding is that the fees are on the device side. They're not on the cable side, necessarily. No, but what I'm saying is if you stop buying HDMI cables, manufacturers might stop including

Starting point is 00:14:38 it. How would they even know? Oh, I'm sure they know. I'm BenQ. How do I know that people are plugged in via display port to my monitor i don't think i do and on the and on the like home theater side of things on the multimedia side of things it's not like i have a choice i can't i can't use display port on anything, on any TV. I've not really understood this. When NVIDIA launched their BFGD initiative, their big f***ing display technology,

Starting point is 00:15:14 or gaming display, that's what it was short for. Yes. I don't make the rules. But when NVIDIA launched that, i was like heck yeah one of the things that i hope gains momentum is displayport because honestly everything that i would need for a tv displayport can do and it's royalty free so let's go what are we waiting for but the inter the inter compatibility and like like someone had to get it started was kind of my mindset was and if we start getting tvs that have it if every tv just

Starting point is 00:15:51 has one of these ports on it well hey that's a that's a starting point in time maybe we start to get devices that have both interfaces kind of like we've seen hdmi make its way onto pcs it used to be that pcs were just vga and then vga and dvi and then just dvi for the most part although you'd use vga for your legacy monitors or you'd use the analog pins on the dvi connector for that and then all of a sudden hdmi showed up and the question at the time especially was why um it was smaller so that was a dubious benefit. But the HDMI standard we were using, I guess it would have been 1.1, 1.2? Whatever it was at the time that it started becoming more ubiquitous on PC monitors, was bandwidth equivalent to DVI.

Starting point is 00:16:40 So there was no compelling reason other than, I guess, you like spending a little bit more on your monitor. Like, I just didn't really get it. And then it was part of the big push towards home theater PCs. So I guess that's ultimately the reason why we started to see it more. But then it's just become this given that HDMI is on graphics cards. And now all of a sudden, okay, now it kind of is on most monitors. And it's just kind of snowballed from there.

Starting point is 00:17:02 And I wanted to see something similar to that happen in the home theater space with displayport and just hasn't happened at all yeah yeah i do think market survey stuff would exist i do think stores uh would they would be reporting somewhere that these companies that are making decisions on compatibility would be able to have that information for the fact that uh not the fact that but in this theoretical scenario where displayport is outselling uh hdmi by a significant degree um and then adjustments would be made but i don't think there's anything that's a lot to ask from the market that will not happen it's not happening yes it's not happening yeah um someone in twitch chat pointed out that uh hdmi did have the benefit of carrying audio while dvi did not that is true i don't think it was a huge meaningful benefit for pcs at the time but that is a really good point and um then we've got the the the conspiracy theory reason that popped up in float plane chat.

Starting point is 00:18:05 That is probably the real reason an HDMI supported HDCP. So there was enormous industry pressure to make HDMI a standard. Because HDCP has prevented content ripping. Absolutely. Please continue to think this you know okay real talk though there is something to be said for the the the the hassle of it being more difficult like finding an hdcp stripper is kind of a pain in the butt because nobody advertises that functionality because the second they do this well-funded group because of all the royalties they collect goes after them and make sure that it you know

Starting point is 00:18:58 goes away and so for the average person you know like, like if we're talking like my little brother or something like that, if he could just as easily pirate some piece of content. Okay, let's think back to the R4 for the Nintendo DS. Okay. It was brain dead simple to pirate games for that platform. And pretty much everyone I knew did it. They had an r4 cartridge you put a micro sd in it and then you just downloaded roms and it was like way better it was way better than the paid experience because you just had an entire you know personal netflix

Starting point is 00:19:36 library of games to play and you just selected what you wanted and booted it up it was actually better than carrying around a bunch of carts which felt stupid it's interesting that you went to netflix over like steam i know but don't worry about it the point is that when piracy is really easy i think it still is though because you're talking about ripping so you're talking about the work that would have to be done in order to pirate the thing i think most people if they're gonna uh engage in the piracy they're just gonna download it sure so you're it's it's hurting like the light hobbyists or the tinkerers that would like to do it themselves and you're actually hurting probably the people that are trying to do it in a more uh what i think most people would see as a uh maybe it's not okay with the law but this is pretty much okay sense where they buy the

Starting point is 00:20:22 thing and then rip it for themselves i think that's a very hypothetical person i don't think too many people are doing that's what i'm saying though but i think that's only people that are basically being affected sure i don't know how many people are like oh i desire to pirate so i'm going to buy this thing and then give it to other people well there's a there's a surprising number of i guess i'll say like selfless pirates like there's a lot of robin hoods out there yeah who will go and buy a blu-ray so that they can rip it and they can upload it to you know a private tracker or something like that i don't think there's that many though i mean there's enough yes there's enough there's definitely enough there's more than enough yes and you And, you know.

Starting point is 00:21:06 But I think it's a, like, dozens of us. There are dozens of us situation. And back to my point, though, about how the barrier to entry is measurable. I mean, even getting a membership to a private tracker, which I have done, it's kind of a hassle. Yeah. It's a barrier. And if you're downloading, if you're downloading off, like, okay, I'm going to use a super outdated reference, but for a good reason, if you're downloading movies from the Pirate Bay,

Starting point is 00:21:31 especially with all of the interesting things that have happened with the Pirate Bay name and the Pirate Bay domains over the years. Don't do that right now. There's inherent risk risk and even if you got a copy of a movie from it say for example it's probably not going to be that great quality so what i'm trying to say is that right now for my little brother for the nintendo ds i'd be like i don't know get an r4 and download games. If he was asking me how to pirate games,

Starting point is 00:22:07 and for something like movies, I would say, I don't feel like coaching you on how to do this safely. Go buy a movie. Subscribe to Netflix. Get a Blu-ray. And so there is, I think that among the hyper techie audience yourself included

Starting point is 00:22:26 my argument doesn't make any sense but if you put yourself in the shoes of someone who is not tech savvy who asked you for advice if they asked you okay how do i pirate movies what would you say it's kind of a mess these days that is an answer i've given relatively recently i don't feel like setting it up for you yeah pretty much so when people buy the blu-rays when people say hdcp doesn't work anyway they're right it doesn't prevent anyone from from ripping the content and hosting it on file sharing sites and it doesn't a layer of swiss cheese but it is absolutely a friction point um and is it a friction point that creates an enormous amount of collateral damage that personally i'm not really

Starting point is 00:23:18 okay with yeah but do i understand why they're doing it and why they continue to do it yeah it's all it's not it's not just it's not moon logic it's not like they're just dumb people doing dumb things and i think that sometimes if we allow ourselves to just think everyone is dumb but me we miss the bigger picture and the bigger picture is that it is effective it's not 100 effective but it is something it's it definitely is to a certain degree with all of that said f**k off and let amd implement hdmi 2.1 on linux because linux shouldn't have a disadvantage because of your drm yeah so that's what the whole thing boils down to for me. Yeah. What do you want to talk about next? Let's just maybe keep hammering through the headliner topics.

Starting point is 00:24:11 Sure. Talk about the Vision Pro material cost. Let's do it. Research firm Omida has released an estimate for the bill of materials or bond cost. Omdia, but yeah, don't worry about it. Omdia? I mean, yeah. I mean, this is stupid.

Starting point is 00:24:22 No, that is correct. Stupid name, but. It's probably better than Floatplane. I like, but... It's probably better than Floatplane. I like Omida. Yeah, definitely better than Floatplane. Research firm Floatplane? The fuck is that? What is that name?

Starting point is 00:24:33 Yeah. As for the bill of materials for Apple Vision Pro, placing the cost of its various materials and components at $1,542. its various materials and components at $1,542. Notably, this does not include costs associated with marketing, wow, I can speak, packaging or research and development, which is going to be very substantial. To be clear, this is something that people forget about constantly.

Starting point is 00:24:59 I don't know why. Meaning that it is not possible to determine Apple's per unit profit margin with the information listed. And it never is, unless you happen to work at Apple and know the exact profit margin. Even then, it's kind of hard and it's technically a little bit of a guess. Yeah. The biggest single contributor to the BOM, or the bill of materials, is the micro OLED internal displays, which are awesome. So it makes sense,

Starting point is 00:25:25 adding that in there, which cost $228 per eye. I wonder how that compares to the price of gold, because I bet they don't weigh much. Yeah. Yeah. Crazy. The combined costs for all of the Vision Pro's displays

Starting point is 00:25:41 make up around 35% of its billets materials for context. The PSVR twos OLED panel is 30% of its bomb. And the quest twos LCD panel is only 18% of its bomb. Apple has declined to discuss the exact breakdown behind the vision pros price, but they have emphasized the cost of R and D and claim that 5,000 different patents were used in its design.

Starting point is 00:26:10 and claim that 5 000 different patents were used in its design the main display is 456 dollars alone wow that's that's a lot yeah it's a really wicked display so it makes sense yeah but but a good rule of thumb is that whatever the bill of materials cost is, you're probably looking at about double. At least. By the time it makes it to retail, because you've got to account for, I mean, even aside from the things that Luke already listed, you know, there's middlemen. Even if that middleman is your own middleman,

Starting point is 00:26:44 so let's say apple's middleman is an apple store yeah does it pay rent i mean if it wants to keep that nice location in the mall it sure does if it wants to keep them employed it sure does does it have to deal with shrink does it have to deal with cleaning expense so just because a middleman also has the name apple doesn't necessarily mean that it doesn't add cost that it doesn't eat away at your margin are there any failures in manufacturing at all oh yeah i mean that's uh certainly that's something that may be factored into these bill of material costs though because if the cost of a of a sony semiconductor micro oled display is 228 dollars that's probably once the failed ones have been yielded out i didn't know that however

Starting point is 00:27:33 that doesn't necessarily mean yeah so generally your bill of materials is the cost of good ones okay however that doesn't mean that none of those good ones are broken in assembly right they could still get returned they could that can happen whatever else that can happen i feel like it's not as common these days but that yeah with the amount of automation that they have in product manufacturing these days yeah it would be less common but it wouldn't be unheard of for something to go wrong on the assembly line and for some of these to ultimately not pass spec now in many cases you can push that back on the manufacturer you can go hey sony here's your palette of crappy displays that didn't make the cut when we were assembling them and if you're apple you probably

Starting point is 00:28:16 have the like penis to swing around to go uh by the way here's a bill for us to take them apart and ship them back to you yeah maybe maybe not we don't know but um that's absolutely something that can happen and it and it someone has to do that and i think that's something a lot of people kind of take for granted is every thing someone has to like move it every single time it moves someone has to look at it every single time something changes about it to make sure that everything's going well and in some cases it is a machine move it every single time it moves someone has to look at it every single time something changes about it to make sure that everything's going well and in some cases it is a machine doing that well guess what somebody has to build that machine somebody has to maintain it there's costs

Starting point is 00:28:54 everywhere sorry but some of these things are are like i know the screen is the main display is 456 bucks but like man nothing was really cheaped out on. Structural member, just the middle frame and stuff, $120? That doesn't even surprise me that much. Because it's metal. It's metal. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:29:14 And it's the kind of CNC that you are... I understand that, but then you see it on paper and it's like yeah you know this was debated heavily and they decided yeah let's go with this expensive 120 dollar at their cost metal frame uh kumo star and floatplane chess says my glass lenses actually shatter at a rate of 40 of the time when they thin them yeah poor product yields are absolutely something that is built into the cost of premium or niche or just or difficult to manufacture products a perfect example of that is why much much larger tvs are so much more expensive than smaller ones you could have a tv that is twice the size as another tv but it'll be four times the cost trying to get that panel all of it perfect with nothing wrong with it is way more difficult than cutting around a bad

Starting point is 00:30:12 section and making two smaller ones it's just it's so much harder it's requires bigger machinery to manipulate it around as you're working on it it's just everything is bigger and everything's more challenging and someone has to develop the processes for this by the way i typical twitch uh back to our last topic sorry linus you're defending the bad guys here did any part of any of that sound like a defense come on people what the hdmi forum thing how would you win where i was talking about hdcp being effective oh i didn't say they're good guys. I just said that what they're doing is working. I said they're not as stupid as you might think they are.

Starting point is 00:30:51 Discussion question is, does this kind of cost breakdown make sense for the Vision Pro, what it is and what it can do? The $3,500 price tag, is it really all that shocking, given its component parts? I mean, that's the thing, is I talked about this in my unboxing. I guys it's expensive yes is it overpriced no no if anything i'm looking at

Starting point is 00:31:15 this bomb cost i'm going you should buy it either just to be super clear not even a little our review is coming very soon in fact i think it's coming out tomorrow nice but looking at this bomb cost the retail price totally makes sense this price is not higher it's actually i think uncharacter uncharacteristically low for apple i think it's pretty aggressive yeah um and i know that's gonna sound pretty crazy to some people there's a lot of people who just really like hate apple and anything that they do is bad because it's Apple who did it. But do you imagine for a second that, you know, let's say Microsoft is making less margin on Azure? Like, how do you think if you if you look at it, look at NVIDIA's H100s right now.

Starting point is 00:32:01 Apple is a publicly traded company. look at nvidia's h100s right now apple is a publicly traded company you can get a rough idea of what their profit margins are anytime you want yeah and then you can compare it to companies like oracle okay or nvidia it's like they're not that far out there and so yeah is the vision pro a really expensive product sure yeah of course it is but like i don't know do you have any nice kicks do you have any idea how much fucking money they made on those like come on yeah yeah clothing is like historically pretty notorious for this um yeah a little bit yeah and and to be clear clothing has very real cost you know back to my point this happens to be clothing that we're going to talk about a little bit. Yeah. And to be clear, clothing has very real costs. You know, back to my point, this happens to be clothing that we're going to talk about a little bit later on the show, new clothing.

Starting point is 00:32:49 Or you want to package it in a way that isn't bad for the planet, that's going to cost more. Yeah, that'll cost you. Do you want to ship it at all? Because even though this paper might cost exactly the same as some plastic, it doesn't cost more, but it could cost exactly the same. You still have to pay for someone to go and source it because this particular factory only had plastic packaging on hand now they have to store that paper that's just for special snowflake us and then they have to have a workflow for you

Starting point is 00:33:17 know changing the production line so that instead of plastic at the end it has paper at the end whenever they're working on stuff for us like is the failure rate the same everything adds up adds up adds up adds up and so yeah i said i said it already but i'll say it again um it's not overpriced yeah it's expensive yes there are elements of it that are overpriced the fact that apple charges so much for a storage upgrade on something that you are already paying them to be a beta tester for yeah is egregious to me but the device itself the base model device itself no it's not overpriced and given the rnd and all the other stuff involved with it if apple you would complain if apple didn't pay the engineers who developed it yeah Yeah, that would be a huge scandal. That would be a huge scandal.

Starting point is 00:34:06 Or if you worked them too hard or too long because you're trying to save money. Or whatever. So then when Apple kind of goes, yeah, turns out R&D costs money, so we're going to have to charge money for our products. You can't complain then. You don't get to have it both ways. I had a conversation with someone recently uh where we had a discussion about how your your employment to a certain degree if you if you are making

Starting point is 00:34:31 things um and i've had this discussion with a few people a number of times but there was just one that was very recent but if you're if you're if you make things your employment is essentially selling your own company the things that you make so So you can kind of boil it down to like, okay, I made widget X. It took me two months. The cost of the company for widget X was my cost, which is my salary plus my benefits and whatever government fee things there are on top of that. And then the company's job of hours is to take that thing and make more money and make more money off of it and if they don't then then i guess you weren't a very good salesman yeah um and you go bye-bye yeah pretty much and you can reassigned or whatever and

Starting point is 00:35:19 you can be unhappy about it um you know it's one of those things where i'm not going to say hmm you complain about capitalism and yet you participate in it engage in this but that's that's how the wheel currently turns for better or for worse how it's currently working yeah train top wave yep see that's the thing um we can't it turns out have a film studio in a residential neighborhood we tried that zoning uh you get kicked out yeah unfortunately it's a whole thing it was nice while we were there and the vast majority of the industrial land in the vancouver area is next to train tracks where you know people don't want to live uh so we just have to deal with that it's pretty cool it is what it is yeah uh what do you want to talk about next uh dan what's our what's our next topic um i don't know you got 11 minutes until merch messages no we have to hurry a little bit because james is doing a

Starting point is 00:36:26 thing later let's do merch and we need to clear out of this set wait what should we talk about the thing they're doing guess what guess what guess what's coming back oh i want to troll he's gonna be so mad we should we should actually not No, no, no, not that. No, no, no, not that. Don't say the name. That's the wrong name. Carpool Critters. No, stop. He's going to be so mad. We should actually not do that.

Starting point is 00:36:50 They're Just Movies is shooting a special temporary return for Dune Part 2. That makes sense. That's cool. So they're coming back. They're coming back to the mics that's like kind of a weird idea for a podcast but would kind of be cool which is like an episode gets filmed if an episode deserves to get filmed and that's it yeah if it doesn't it doesn't and if if all three if all three hosts aren't like i need to see this movie i need to see it on launch day if i don't talk talk about it, I'm going to explode.

Starting point is 00:37:27 Then it just doesn't get an episode. It's a pretty cool concept. I kind of like it, to be honest. Because if an episode comes out, that means it's time to watch. Yeah, I'm down with it. They're occasionally movies. I'd watch that when it comes out. They're mostly just movies.

Starting point is 00:37:44 And this podcast is not about those ones sometimes movies all right merch messages now i'm supposed to explain about merch messages the way to interact with the show you guys have been watching it all show so far is to send a merch message don't do a twitch bit whatever that is or a super chat you want to send a merch message don't do a twitch bit whatever that is or a super chat you want to send a merch message that way you can throw money at your screen and get great quality merchandise in the mail in return all you got to do is head to lttstore.com we got a couple new things to show you guys today in the cart you will see the field for a merch message whenever we're live you fill it out it goes to producer dan there he is too late oh no he's got it this time oh well anyway the point is it goes

Starting point is 00:38:27 to producer dan who will either forward it to the appropriate party respond himself throw your little shout out so at the bottom of the screen or curate your message for me and luke to respond to later uh we've got a couple of we're going to do a couple merch messages to kind of show you guys how it works we try to get to as many of them as we can but if we don't then hey at least you get your order in the mail instead of just throwing money at the screen but you can also do but you can do you might as well just get an order i mean we've got we've got super chats enabled if you just want to throw money at the screen and then give youtube a 30 or 40 percent cut or whatever whatever then by all

Starting point is 00:39:05 means i i will i will take my my pittance that youtube reserves for me out of that money and uh i i will i will certainly accept it but i would rather i would rather give you stuff give google's share to you know our fine creator warehouse team or to our to our wonderful suppliers or our T-shirt printer, who I love the quality of his work, and I just want him to make more shirts for us. It's one of those things. If your customer's biggest complaint is they just want to buy more, you're doing pretty good. So, you know, lots of love.

Starting point is 00:39:44 Anyway, the point is we've got a few updates on the store first up very crinkly well paper packaging quite the experience it's recyclable that's good okay we do it because we care i i go from the hole let's probably easier i don't need to know these things well i can make assumptions about these things one

Starting point is 00:40:10 finger or two you gotta start i mean it doesn't have to be a finger oh my god Oh my god! Anyway, the point is new underwear. Woo!

Starting point is 00:40:36 They are 50-50 merino wool and polyester-y blend. They are comfortable for all seasons and because they're merino wool, they wick like awesomely. When I wear these for badminton, my nether regions

Starting point is 00:40:53 dry out so much faster so they're great for anytime you might be outdoors. Whether the moisture is coming from outside in or inside out, they're fantastic for that. They're our same great fit there the hand feel is yeah it feels like merino wool yeah well good stuff yeah i mean that's uh anyway the point is uh i love merino upgrade your software haha that's actually a

Starting point is 00:41:15 pretty good that's actually pretty funny so the ltt underwear back uh new one pack it's really expensive that's why it's a one pack merino wool is expensive yeah it turns out it's really really expensive and somebody has to pay for you know all those people all those people to get genetically modified ah to uh to make oil on their bodies and yeah yeah we harvest humans they're they're volunteers though so it's okay ah anyway the point is yes uh it has more of a structured feel compared to our typical modale blend so they they kind of hold firm yeah they hold a little firmer uh please follow the care instructions do not put in the dryer oh it's wool yeah that makes sense they will shrink yep um okay and then their underwear so returns blah

Starting point is 00:42:06 blah fully sealed not opened etc etc so there's just a couple warnings i wanted to get on there what is this hat adam um yeah good job i don't know yeah it's good i'm proud of him um anyway the point is the other updates for the store this week are magnetic cable management you can sign up for a launch notification really can i say this available next week oh magnetic cable management is coming also the precision screwdriver we are receiving the first 100 units soon which will be sold to a randomly selected group of people who have signed up for a launch notification this will be ahead of general availability and the idea here is that similar to what we did with the regular screwdriver pop-up shop once those hundred people have it use it review it we are going to take back orders so that we can get some idea of like how the bloody many

Starting point is 00:43:05 of these things we should order uh instead of just guessing it's a dangerous game without taking a pre-order because hey this way final production units are in the hands of people and you can take their word for how great it is yeah i do think we'll probably do away with that system at some point i mean i think we've uh kind of established we're just going to kind of take care of people this is not like this is not like a game i'm not going to tell you to pre-order i'm just going to tell you it's an option at some point i think um we have a demo for cable management let's do two merch messages first then we'll do a demo of cable management all right hit me dan sure thing let's see it's been a while i'm gonna walk over i was gonna

Starting point is 00:43:49 say for april fool so you should just run over and like punch you well i mean we're gonna why punch well it's a stand it's the most standard hit in the world it's not the most standard hit backhand to the face is that the most you would prefer a backhand to the face that's not the argument here i'm just saying just kind of the vibe yeah punch is that the most you would prefer a back i didn't say it prefer it that's not the argument here i'm just saying just kind of the vibe yeah punch is not the standard hit you think a back hand to the face is a more standard that that feels much more correct for this relationship like hit what do you expect the character to do well depends what they're trying to do i mean in in a in a social context i would expect you know in a social context if

Starting point is 00:44:26 someone says drink to the face you expect them to backhand you across the face forehand yeah but i would expect a slap yeah i'd expect a slap not a punch absolutely if i say hit me to someone else i would never expect them to smack me it depends on the context yeah you could kill someone with a punch i'm not you could drive their nose bones into my face i mean i guess but why even bother hitting them then you should you should avoid hitting each other in the head by the way this is like a thing whatever will smith is very culturally relevant whatever he says is the correct hit is correct we're going with that yeah oh my goodness yeah fair enough you know what i rest my case all right yeah it's been a while since this question was last asked are you now

Starting point is 00:45:19 open to 60 frames a second ltd videos i that's never been a question for me you'll have to you'll have to ask our production team um no i mean i can uh here you know what tell you what uh realistically andy's pretty chill uh he's he's he's the the king of the camera nerds these days i actually legitimately i'm not 100 sure exactly what his job title is um but he's definitely he's definitely the ruler of that roost hello linus hey andy sorry to bug you you are live on the wan show right now oh hi yeah we we got a merch message that was really more of a question for you than it is for me and I'll let you kind of field it here we were asked hey are you guys more open these days to 60fps videos if we are okay with you know the space and all the processing power

Starting point is 00:46:28 lost i think should be fine for our standpoint really that was not the answer i was expecting to get um okay with that because like i mean i wouldn't watch watch a 60fps movie. You wouldn't? I wouldn't. No. 24fps for a movie only, but 60 for our video, if we're showing fps and that kind of stuff, it might make sense. What about a talking head video?

Starting point is 00:47:08 Nah, it's okay. I wouldn't be bothered, but I still prefer 30, but if we decided that we're going to do 60, that's fine. What if it was your decision? What if you were empowered? I'm going to keep like 30. Okay, fair enough. Thanks, Andy. Yeah, bye.

Starting point is 00:47:29 So basically, he's more open to it than that department has been in the past. The bandwidth sucks. Oh, the storage requirements. Why not watch two video? Yeah, that's fair. This is why a lot of platforms don't like it. There are situations, like he was saying um where it totally makes sense totally completely makes sense we haven't accidentally done it by the way in response to floatplane chat uh we do it on purpose from time to time if the purpose of

Starting point is 00:47:55 the video is to make observations about the smoothness of something or it's really great gameplay footage heavy we have uploaded in 60 fps um just just so you know it's it's not something that we do by accident yeah but like all content just magically being 60 fps first of all is not actually going to make it better and second of all it's just really expensive across the board it's expensive in storage it's expensive in bandwidth it's expensive in rendering it's expensive in every way really um and usually isn't going to offer you a benefit and then when it does though it's it's sweet yeah all right it's cool to support but so uh basically we'll think about it um typically i have not really imposed

Starting point is 00:48:41 artistic my artistic will on other departments i look realistically i could have said 10 years ago our videos are 60 fps like it or lump it um but that's not really how we roll here so if andy were to come around and say you know hey i think this video should be 60 fps i would never say no to that um i have not been the obstacle to it is basically what i'm trying to say but it sounds like we're more open to it than we have been in the past so who knows what the future holds yeah i don't think it's that hit me dan hey wan.exe could a theoretical dlss4 bring back sli leveraging ai to address micro stutters and splice frames together to trick games into thinking it's a single card removing coding requirements

Starting point is 00:49:30 i don't know i don't know enough about the architecture of sli and nvidia's modern gpus to speculate about something like that but what i will say is i doubt it i don't think they want to go that direction either at all and realistically guys if they really wanted to bring back sli that's not the way they would do it anymore apple has shown that a high speed enough interconnect can be built to have two GPUs, two independent GPUs, functionally act as one. It does still have issues. In fact, we ran into this unexpectedly when we did our video on Apple's

Starting point is 00:50:15 attempts to make their platform more appealing to developers when we used an M whatever. It was M1 Ultra, M2 Ultra, whatever. We used one of the Ultra chips to test it. And what we found out after the fact was one of the reasons it didn't work very well for us was because their Ultra chips are kind of bugged in some applications, including that.

Starting point is 00:50:42 Which, in fairness to us, is an Apple problem, not an us problem that does affect Apple's users. And not only in this one weird beta edge case, it's actually a problem with their product that they need to fix at some point. Uh, but it does demonstrate that there are definitely still challenges, even if it can be done, but that it can be done. So if Nvidia were to build something like that what i suspect is that they would build it as a product and they would build it as an ai product they would not build that as a gaming product i mean we're already looking at their top tier silicon their top monolithic die costing what are what are we up to 1600 US dollars by the time you equip it with a whole bunch of VRAM

Starting point is 00:51:26 and a whole bunch of VRMs and a big cooler and an HDMI port. Which to be clear, on a card of that price, is not a significant contributor. But still, I just,

Starting point is 00:51:40 SLI didn't make any sense beyond the top tier products because of the, uh, the, the, the, the interconnect overhead, like you wouldn't put that complicated,

Starting point is 00:51:51 that, that high speed interconnect on something that wasn't likely to use it because it's so expensive in terms of Silicon. You would just give it more CUDA cores or more AI cores or more tensor cores or whatever. You would just, you SLI like 50 series gpus yeah exactly it's it's silliness and so they would only put it on a top tier card and if they were

Starting point is 00:52:10 going to do that what do you really want a four thousand dollar gaming card i mean some people probably do but and maybe nvidia would even build that product like if they built it already for the ai market or workstation market anyway then and they were looking at it going okay well we just slap geforce on this thing and then it goes uh then maybe maybe they would but i just i don't see it being in the near future sorry guys you want to hit us with one more dan yeah sure hi d ee-i-i i saw that one he's getting so weird yeah i work in fraud and have really shame on you yeah shame stop frauding people i'm a professional criminal and i have recent cases with customers falling for deep faked ads and fraudulent credit card apps with AI generated photos. What other tech can you see aiding criminals in the future?

Starting point is 00:53:11 Oh, dude, that. Yeah. Basically, things in that realm. We had a topic about this not that long ago, about where people did some form of AI deep fake thing for a conference call to convince someone to transfer millions and millions of dollars. And they did it. This is just going to get worse. I talked months ago about how people were. The scam was that they would target mothers and they would deepfake the daughter's voice.

Starting point is 00:53:42 In distress. In distress, which makes it easier because you like muffle it and stuff yep um and and they would ask for like you know money or whatever else ransom um and it was working because you're playing on people's emotions and stuff like that and you're putting them in a in a not you're putting them in a in a in a if i'm wrong cognitive disadvantage yeah yeah and if i'm wrong this horrible thing is happening and i didn't help uh if i'm right i'm out some money so quite a bit of people are gonna take the chance which which sucks that's why i just don't pick up my phone anymore yeah there you go honestly i get so many spam calls

Starting point is 00:54:25 and just i don't have to deal with the trolley problem if i'm not even there just walk away turn 360 degrees around walk away if you are not in my phone book i am extremely difficult to get in touch with and it causes legitimate problems i miss shipments all the time like no seriously like if i have man if i ever ordered something on uber eats and they just like saw my number in the thing and called me instead of like texting me through the app or whatever i've just they'd have no chance i'd be like yeah i guess i'm just not getting this food you don't call screen i call screen everything i don't have it oh yeah exactly so i just don't answer my phone.

Starting point is 00:55:05 Yeah. Honestly, it's kind of liberating. I just don't. I just. What's that? My phone's ringing. Is it my wife? Seems like someone else's phone. Because she's basically the only person who ever called me.

Starting point is 00:55:15 Do you have custom ringtones? Do you have a different ringtone if they're in your address book or not? No, I'm just a glance. Oh. Yeah. But I don't see if I recognize a number or anything. What percentage of my calls are my wife i mean it's pretty it's pretty high you know yeah wife something wife wife something vet something wife like pretty much my life once you once yeah once you progress to a certain, that's kind of what it becomes.

Starting point is 00:55:48 Voice calls are so boomer. Oh, you know what my phone does have, though, is it has an auto text response. So anytime someone calls me, not anytime, most of the time when someone calls me, actually, I kind of misrepresented it before, I send back an automatic, please text me. And if they don't text me,

Starting point is 00:56:02 then it couldn't have been that important. That's pretty fair i mean what were they calling from a landline if you're already not come on well if they're in distress and can't like type on their phone but if if they're not in your address book and they can't text you the chance that you really needed it is like near zero yeah yeah so that seems quite fair to me uh what was the okay back to the scamming question yeah i don't know all the ai things are going to be absolutely horrid for scamming it's it's going to be really really really really really bad i know and there's going to be such

Starting point is 00:56:35 creative attack vectors like they'll get you on the phone somehow and they'll be like uh it'll be something innocuous like they'll um they'll get you Like they'll get you to type something or something and then they'll use the, you know, knowing what those characters sound like to, you know, so like this would have to be quite targeted. But if somehow they manage to, you know, get an audio feed from a security camera in your house or something like

Starting point is 00:57:05 that if they call you and tell you what characters to type they'll use machine learning to uh take that audio signature and then they'll they'll wait for you to like log into something even if they can't see your keyboard and they'll like be able to steal passwords from you that way like there's just going to be things are going to get actual spy movie crazy like that's a thing by the way i wasn't making that up that whole audio signatures and being able to tell what you typed that that's totally a thing in fact i think the researchers didn't even need the recording and knowing what you were typing they were just able to they were able to figure it out just based on the vibrations or something like that it's absolutely incredible we have a video coming soon by the way on how easy it is to break into someone's wi-fi if you have

Starting point is 00:57:51 the hardware for it it's the kind of thing that i think many in our audience are already going to be aware of but many in our audience might not be aware of just how bad it is. So if you remember Camino, have you seen any of the videos we've made about Camino's machines? Okay, they do these liquid cooled GPU servers and they sent us over one probably about six months ago now that we have had various concepts

Starting point is 00:58:17 for what to do with and have ultimately not executed on. And finally we settled on one. And it's good timing too because they messaged me. were like um are you doing anything with that server and i was like ha ha i filmed the video today like there's it's not a sponsor we would like to um continue to have it yeah it's not a sponsorship or anything but you know it's got like 640 90s in it so i'm sure they'd love to know where it is um and it's sound anyway we came up with a really good concept and um tanner built the krakenator 5000 a mobile wi-fi cracking monstrosity in a van um using a bunch of batteries and their server and we didn't do it because that would be illegal but we were able should we have desired yes to go anywhere yeah find any wireless access point

Starting point is 00:59:18 yeah and break into it in how fast did you guys get it down to seconds yeah so you could war drive if you were like in a school district that's yeah that sounds about right nice very cool pretty wild um i think for a uh don't quote me on this because it'll be right in the video i think for someone who uses their phone number, Oh yeah. It was four seconds. Yeah. So if you,

Starting point is 00:59:50 if it's purely numeric, um, cause each, each of those RTX 40 nineties, I think was able to do about 2 million per second or something like that. 2 million attempts per second. And with WPA two, you don't have to be in range in order to do this either so even if we didn't have that kind of hardware we could steal

Starting point is 01:00:11 everything that we need go somewhere else wait around for it to processing and then you got it and then we can come back connect and even a lot of tech savvy people don't necessarily have the proper, proper protections on, uh, every shared resource on their network. Um, even here, almost no one that I know here uses Mac filtering.

Starting point is 01:00:37 Even Mac filtering is not a perfect defense. Uh, there's all kinds of, there's, there's so many attack vectors. Once someone is connected to your network so please for the love of all that is good use a long wi-fi password with lots of characters with lots of special characters and with unusual deviations if you must use dictionary words make sure that it's not just well i used a capital

Starting point is 01:01:07 letter for the first letter of every word because that's a thing that people do try not to be predictable please please um yeah wpa3 much better but the problem is that if your AP is not configured to reject WPA2-capable clients that do not support WPA3, then any WPA2 thing can just connect, and then it'll negotiate via WPA2, and then you can just break in with WPA2. It's the whole, like, oh, nice, this is secured through YubiKey as its two-factor. And it also has a backup of text message authentication. It's only secure as the least secure part of it. I know multiple people who have, in the wake of all this AI stuff, moved to entirely in-person transactions for highly important things. Multiple people at this point in time, including some people that act as companies,

Starting point is 01:02:08 to the point where they've made agreements with this. The cellular provider one seems to be harder to get. The only person, I don't know one person who's gotten that, but it's because they have a much smaller cellular provider. But they have an agreement where if a new sim is issued for instance they have to be there in person it has to be them in particular and they have to provide their id no other scenario is allowed they will never ship it none of that type of stuff i know multiple people who have agreements with their bank where if they want to withdraw a

Starting point is 01:02:42 significant amount of money or wire transfer significant amount of money or whatever over a certain threshold it has to be them it has to be in person it has to be id verified they can't do any of it online anymore none of it can be verified in how ironic ways yeah we're going all the way back let's go back to this let's let's bring back yeah signatures let's go yeah it's weird it's weird that the solution is let's do all of the pre-tech things well we could combine every week like we could have you know physical biometric security i could have to pluck i could have to pluck a hair out of my beard and give it to them for like analysis in order to oh i'm gonna have to grow a beard again there you go shoot good solution yeah yeah i i like i i love that like hey yeah i'll do that wire transfer but i only do wire transfers on like every second thursday because that's when i go to the bank

Starting point is 01:03:36 might be an actual like statement that people actually say in modern year that's crazy um yeah fun one what are we supposed to be doing right now oh yeah we just finished merch messages oh yeah that took a while that was fun though i enjoyed it it was good i'm cold we have some of it already like we've actually been running these for months on wanshow yeah i guess you don't see it much oh these are the old 3d printed crappy ones but yeah you have capable things so you don't have to make fun of them they're pretty good i like you the magnets come out of them too easily the molds for the finished ones are fixed fine i like them anyways good good magnet holder i'll break it oh so mean this is not something that I expected to have

Starting point is 01:04:31 yeah yeah hold on okay go ahead what the heck is going on here why is there a backpack is it hanging off one of them oh wow there's one for you well how are we supposed to Backpack? Is it hanging off one of them? Oh, wow. There's one for you. Okay. I mean, oh.

Starting point is 01:04:45 There's one for you. Have fun. Well, how are we supposed to, how are we supposed to do anything with this while we're holding it? All right. Is there pictures of this? Is there a plan?

Starting point is 01:04:55 There we go. Wait, you have to just hold it? Why not? I mean, okay. Why are you being tortured? I mean, well, I probably did something that's fair okay so what are we supposed to do daniel besser i don't know this is a demo you can move them okay well there's different sizes of the cable management things so we've got this

Starting point is 01:05:19 these cables here do you want to just pull an arch off luke yeah so there you go that they can be used to manage cables nice strong magnets these jesus kids okay pull that one off nice nice so you can hold bigger cables you know you're doing it in the way that it makes it look easy oh oh whoa jesus You know, you're doing it in the way that it makes it look easy. Oh. Whoa, whoa. Jesus. Whoa!

Starting point is 01:05:52 You got this? So Luke was... Someone ripped it out of my head. Luke was levering it because he wants to be effective, but the point is how strong they are. I wasn't aware of what the point was. Try and rip the backpack off. Yeah, you can... Okay, was. Try and rip the backpack off. Yeah, you could. Okay, sure.

Starting point is 01:06:07 Luke, rip the backpack off. Am I allowed to? No, you have to pull perpendicular from the board. So I can't like slide it to the side? Nope. Nope. This is not going to go well. It's going to go funny.

Starting point is 01:06:22 You slid it off. I didn't mean to. Put it back on. Do it properly. I can't like i can't like i have to here we'll angle it dan here we'll angle it there you go perfect it slid again come on luke don't cheat okay you got it that's my god all right anyway the point is there's lots of different kinds there's the arches there's the ones that attach to cable ties it is very strong uh there's the ones that hold uh power bricks i don't think we look this whole time one of the medium ones has been holding the screwdriver and it's been fine oh there we go all right anyway thanks dan you're welcome this was something uh

Starting point is 01:06:59 i wonder if i could get it just by throwing it uh i hear i hear the stream somewhere nice okay i think it was me what a demo so they're coming next week oh man we're trying not to cheat challenge impossible dan are you okay all right good stuff apparently twitch ran an ad while we were trying to show our products okay hold on hold on hold on this was this was good this was good because there's some misconceptions pit boy in all capital letters with maximum sass says so i have a wooden desk and a uh drywall uh and drywall great products do most people have metal desks um no but what wasn't shown there is that they have dan's going i think he's running to go

Starting point is 01:07:58 get them they have little metal uh circle things to go on the other side so if you have a wooden desk like linus or myself or even the wanshow desk or whatever you can screw or tape or glue or do whatever with these little metal plates and put those on to whatever surface you want the things to go on wow having correct terminology for this would have been awesome so i don't sound like a so i will just go to my cam here so i am holding three different plate sets we have the standard plate set which has uh the standard adhesive on it we have the and that one's intended for the adhesive to just hold it in place while you uh so you okay so you know what i'll just show you guys how it works can i have a small arch please oh there's one nope that's not one uh i think that's uh maybe that might be a medium arch that is a medium arch yep may i have a small arch please i don't have any oh my goodness we're

Starting point is 01:09:00 just gonna open all the products i guess fine i'm over it okay all right cool so this one the way it's intended to be used is you've got your arch you've got your plate okay there's your adhesive backing so you yeah you peel the plastic protective piece off or you just don't i don't bother because i don't care because i'm going to put an arch on it anyway then what you do is you peel the adhesive back off you stick it to whatever it is that you want to stick it to and then you slide the arch off so that this stays exactly where you want it then you put a screw through the middle and it stays there five ever hey now you have a metal desk um the vhb plate set is intended for people who don't want to screw into it and just want a plate that

Starting point is 01:09:47 will stay forever with the adhesive um and then if you ever want to remove it then it's vhb so you can uh it'll take some time it'll probably rip the paint off of your drywall and you know whatever else vhb really yeah but this is a this is a permanent mounting solution yeah and then this one's fun we haven't actually really shown this yet i don't think i haven't yeah i haven't seen this i know it's a thing but i don't know anything about it these are silicone grips that go with the regular plates and what they do is okay uh what they do is they have their own adhesive okay and so they're intended either for our backing or for a metal desk and they are a grippy surface so you stick it down in between

Starting point is 01:10:35 metal and the magnet and then you lose a little bit of your perpendicular very small amount no it's measurable okay yeah yeah yeah but it's probably so small uh but you get way less slippage so it increases the resilience that way and resilience is probably not the right word or whatever but i don't care sure finance here you can correct yeah anyway okay uh yeah we've got there's that's fine it's fine it's been a very complicated launch because there's so many things to communicate there's so many different little things we've had to think through

Starting point is 01:11:10 look we had to make jumbo luke sized cable ties don't worry we still have the Linus sized ones for like big power bridges the ones that are definitely totally normal and fine according to my wife oh my goodness

Starting point is 01:11:28 yeah i'm really excited these have been a long time coming and you think it's simple but nothing's ever simple when you've got all the different sizes and all the different plate types and all the different sizes of cable ties that go with them and you're trying to have great compatibility with the blah, blah, blah, et cetera, et cetera, it's going to be a really, really good product. And I really wish we had it ready in time for launch, but we just haven't. I want to do a series where we go around

Starting point is 01:12:00 and cable manage people's setups with these things. I think it's going to be a lot of fun, like very ultimate tech upgrade kind of vibes um and i would love if it's successful for us to actually expand this one to audience members so we get you guys to send us like your rancid gamer dens and we basically roll in cleanup crew style uh you know helmets and uh if elijah's there and then and you know masks for everyone else and we like cable manage it i think that'd be super cool it might make more sense once we also have cable products to go with our cable management i think so so we kind of come in and we go because one of the things oh i don't know if we've talked about this yet but i guess

Starting point is 01:12:41 we're talking about it now one of the things that we want to differentiate our cable products from others, aside from just being really high quality is the availability of lots of different lengths. Cause I mean right now, yeah, you can buy a USB C cable as long as you want it to be 30 centimeters or 60 centimeters.

Starting point is 01:13:00 What about 40 or 50? It's really challenging. And if you care about cable management it's kind of a kind of a pain in the butt that sucks yeah we're not going to be able to do custom lengths guys it's just with the way with how with the kind of frequency that these modern interfaces run at it's just not conceivable for us to be terminating them in a warehouse enrichment or whatever it's like these are going to have to be built to length but we want to offer more variety of lengths and we want to have a cohesive product line so that all of your cable stuff matches uh if you you know care about i did notice in some of our product imagery for the magnetic stuff which i've been peeping because we're we're doing stuff for the the store with it um some of the cables are like kind of random and i was thinking like

Starting point is 01:13:51 man it would look nicer if there was like cohesiveness to the cables and then i was like oh yeah there will be we're probably going to do that in time there just isn't yet that makes sense yeah how are they with scratches as they move on the surface scratches on oh i mean they are magnets so if you if you want something to definitely not get scratched then what you would want to do is use the silicone uh the the silicone things so you would take the adhesive off the back you'd put it where you want it to go and then you you'd put the magnetic arch on there um the problem with magnets is that the force drops off dramatically over distance and our differentiating factor for this product because anybody could see this and make a lower quality clone in no time at all the only reason this is taken so long is because we want it to be

Starting point is 01:14:53 good right so if someone wanted to just make an arch with magnets on the end they could absolutely do that but most of the cost is in the magnets they're neodymium magnets they are extremely strong for their size and they will really hold your flipping cables in place but the problem with that is that they're magnets they're made of metal so if you put them on something soft uh or something that has a really fine finish on it like a you know a really nice um painted surface for example yeah there is a chance that it will get scratched. So you will have to exercise some sort of common sense care and attention whenever you're using them.

Starting point is 01:15:32 And if we were to, we considered developing them such that the plastic was what made contact, not the metal. And it was me who made the call. So if you're mad about it, you can blame me. But we made the call to go with magnet contact in order to best take advantage of our product's best strength which is its strength and like i don't know these ones right here have been on this wancho set for a long time they don't really move they're pretty like this is oh yeah they're not really moving

Starting point is 01:16:07 they're amazing yeah i don't know i don't think they're going to do a lot of scratching because i don't think they're going to do a lot of moving if you're using them to secure cables that you're moving often a lot of those are going to be things like usb cables stuff like that moving that around unless you're like really yanking on it i don't think it's going to move them tynan's doing some really great q a in the float plane chat right now um zatharian asked well okay but putting magnets on your cables is is that going to be a problem for signaling and uh what he said was from our testing static magnets which is what ours are they're not they're not moving they're not it's not a motor right uh static magnets are not a problem from our testing.

Starting point is 01:16:46 Yep. That's neat. That's cool. Cool. All right. We got to do some more topics. Let's do some topics. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:16:56 Yeah. Nintendo Suzu. Do you want that one for later? Yeah, no. Let's do it now. All right. Nintendo has launched a 41-page DMCA lawsuit against tropic haze the makers of switch emulator yuzu does nintendo know what dmca is because i'm not sure that they do they just they kind of seem to think it's just everything

Starting point is 01:17:16 to everyone sorry sorry i interrupted go on it yeah it's an arguable in court thing so they can get people scared about it regardless. They demanded that Yuzu be shut down and deleted. According to Nintendo, Yuzu users primarily use the technology to subvert anti-piracy protection, not any of Yuzu's more legitimate uses. that Tears of the Kingdom was illegally downloaded over a million times in the week and a half before its initial launch or sorry its official launch and that around 20% of download links pointed pirates towards Yuzu as a tool to play the game. While no one is claiming that Yuzu contains copyrighted codes if Nintendo could substantiate that it is a tool primarily for the purpose of copyright infringement that would be a violation of the dmca as pointed out by rob fahy fahy

Starting point is 01:18:13 something around there of games industry.biz nintendo is arguably more seriously affected by piracy than console rivals like microsoft and sony in part because both those companies have a far greater number of live service mmo and you know always online style games i would also make the argument that both of those other companies provide a hardware platform that isn't a giant piece of that's a pretty good argument that was my primary reason for buying Tears of the Kingdom, a cartridge, and never once putting it in my Switch. I put it in a Switch for us to do a video here. I never put it in mine. I didn't end up playing a ton of that game,

Starting point is 01:19:05 but the limited hours that I did play were on an ROG ally because I didn't want to run it 26 frames per second or whatever it averages out to. Like I, it's not, it's ridiculous. Especially there's, there was a rumor recently. I have no idea how credible it was,

Starting point is 01:19:23 there's there was a rumor recently i have no idea how credible it was but that the hardware for the switch 2 has been in development and at a late stage of development for a very long time like they're basically just deciding when to give us a console that isn't a giant piece of and it's just i don't know man nintendo is one of those companies that just has such outright disdain for its users i i have a hard time i have a hard time defending anything that they do at this point yeah this sucks for a lot of people because i know a lot of people really enjoy playing nintendo games but with ray tracing yeah or at 60 frames per second or you know at not 720p and i know this is a hey i actually don't know that many people and my circle is small and subsists of a relatively similar type of person

Starting point is 01:20:20 situation but pretty much everyone that i know that uses yuzu also owns a switch and owns the games because most people are just like yeah it's just an insanely better experience so i want to play it there this isn't actually about pirating or whatever else i just like it's twice the frame rate looks insanely better is i don't know bigger format whatever there's like a lot of different arguments for it yeah i don't know it sucks i know there's other people on the interwebs that are a lot more invested in this so if you are interested in it there are a lot of people covering this right now so you could look up arbiter k asks when are we getting the beauty page pageant pageant um internally i have been pleaded with to not do it yeah um it's not the kind of thing that i can be like ha ha i insist because i am technically the

Starting point is 01:21:31 majority shareholder but that's not how a constructive relationship works between um shareholders and board members and shareholders is the chief executive um that's not how a healthy relationship works between this shareholder and the other shareholder that luke just mentioned um that's just not how any of this works so it is not a decision that i will be making on my own i would still like to do it yeah i think there's a way i i understand it's a minefield it's so basically here's the problem we could do it we could run a beauty pageant where people's beauty is judged by the way they could play super smash bros and um you know while they wait for judging you know we could do that

Starting point is 01:22:26 if nintendo decides to take legal action we are believe it or not still a very small company in the grand scheme of things and the legal costs for that type of action should they drag on long enough could significantly harm our ability to continue to operate i i know that yeah i don't fully understand where it comes from i think some of it is my fault because i talked about that valuation that we got when there was the offer to buy but there's there's a perception i think that we are an enormous company that we're some kind of heavy hitter um and in the youtube space i guess so yeah we're in sort of an uh and uh we're in a very we're in very elite company in terms of our our scale right like we have over a hundred people who work here but a hundred in canada is the threshold for like a medium-sized business we're just barely we are actually not a large company

Starting point is 01:23:37 yeah we've been we've been very successful we've been very lucky but when you have a 100 million dollar valuation or offer that doesn't necessarily mean when you have a $100 million valuation or offer, that doesn't necessarily mean that you have a $100 million valuation. That could mean that there's some projected growth. So you could have been at a very high multiplier of your EBITDA. It does not mean that I have $100 million in the bank. That's super duper not how that works at all. I'm not complaining i'm doing really great and i'm deeply appreciative to all of our viewers and

Starting point is 01:24:11 all of our team members and and everyone but i don't have a hundred million dollars 100 i promise uh so for us to go toe-to-toe with someone like a Nintendo is a legitimate risk that it would be up to the leadership team to decide to tackle, not me. Yeah, and it sucks because it would be really really fun to do but it is incredibly dangerous and for the same reasons that we would want to do it or for highly related reasons to why we would want to do it nintendo would probably want to come after it because we're trying to like, you know. We're very obviously. Trying to get around it.

Starting point is 01:25:10 Trying to set an example to a certain degree. No, no, no. We wouldn't be trying to get around anything. Yeah. We wouldn't be trying to set any examples. Yes. That is not the case. We would be trying to run a beauty pageant. That's true.

Starting point is 01:25:21 I would like to make it very clear. That's true. And that is what we would be doing the plan is you know if they were going to do activities between they could do a variety of activities they could they absolutely could yeah in fact maybe that would be a good thing yeah if they could do anything they wanted yeah maybe they play another game maybe you know the console is there maybe they play tic-tac-toe but there's a variety of games available maybe there's lots of consoles available

Starting point is 01:25:50 maybe maybe they play hopscotch i mean it's just time between judging we're just trying to make it more entertaining for them fascinating yeah all right so we'll see long story short how did that come up we're talking about nintendo and dmca oh nintendo just being generally jackasses um okay our discussion question here is what happens to nintendo if nintendo wins what happens if they lose i mean i think if nintendo wins it's going to send huge shock waves um through the emulation community i think that uh this is uh this is a very important battle here um this will this will This will almost certainly set a precedent for future similar battles. With that said, I would be very surprised if suddenly Nintendo emulation and suddenly game piracy disappears because of this.

Starting point is 01:26:59 I mean, if it was as simple as winning battles in court, then music piracy wouldn't exist and movie piracy wouldn't exist. It would just go more underground. But coming back to our conversation earlier, that may be enough. That may be enough friction that enough people buy Nintendo games legitimately that it maybe won't matter anymore. I i mean i would honestly make the argument that even yuzu as it is is very high friction the vast majority of people i know and this is people i know this is not you know people that some random not tech circle person interacts with like the vast majority of the people i know would either a not be able to figure out how to get uzu running or b would be able to but look at it and go no i got something else to do today it's it's it's a bit of a pain in the butt and if you know exactly where to go and which file

Starting point is 01:28:07 is safe and exactly what directory to put it in and whatever yeah yeah sure it doesn't take long like you can get yuzu up and running in like three minutes but if you don't know all of those things man you can end up on some sketchy sites and you can end up you can it could it could potentially and this is a very real risk it could potentially cost you a lot more than some switch games so yeah i mean you get your like you end up with some stupid key logger on your computer you get your identity stolen that's going to be not worth it dog yeah so all that being said i honestly think this might bring more eyeballs onto yuzu and switch emulation in general than ever before um i've never been more tempted to download it and i've never downloaded it in the past

Starting point is 01:28:55 oh it's pretty good yeah yeah i mean i i i've i use it i've just never bothered because i was like i don't know whatever yeah if i'm gonna play a switch game it's usually because i'm probably gonna be in a situation where i only have my switch anyways right and you don't have an ally so yeah you're by yourself yeah you have no ally except if yuzu does get sued into oblivion and told to delete their thing would disappear yeah except it wouldn't because it's open source yeah so it's not going anywhere which kind of makes the whole thing feel kind of um yep yeah yeah good job nintendo but the easiest way to grab it would be to grab it now if that was the case i'm not saying you should remember that time nintendo was talking about uh doing like a sponsorship deal with us how glad do you think they are that they didn't do it over that time

Starting point is 01:29:43 they like flew me out to toronto no yeah oh yeah and then you like crushed that little kid in mario kart wow yeah really you're so proud of that you have to bring it up right now he beat a child at mario kart a little girl pathetic did they cry no oh they were upset they were beyond tears dan so i yeah they brought they brought us out to toronto to check out the switch and then uh i was trying to like test it but i wanted to check like controller range and stuff and they wouldn't let me and then they were doing a mario kart mini tournament up on the stage and they put me on the far side of the stage from the actual switch console itself um and i was having a very hard time and at this point in time i played i would literally like okay so some people don't know this back in the old house when we used to

Starting point is 01:30:38 film out of the house i lived in the basement i actually genuinely lived in the basement so what i would do is i would wake up i'll go upstairs i go to work i'd work i'd come back downstairs and i'd play mario kart until i fell asleep and then i would fall asleep i used to be very very good and that's around this time so i expected to do quite well against a bunch of randoms effectively but i could barely even drive i was having a lot of issues i felt like the controller was disconnecting. So I started asking them like, do I need to move closer? Is this a range issue? And they're like, no, no, no, no, no. Uh, and the, the, one of the people near me was like, yeah, you must just like not be that good. And I was like, oh, okay. Yeah. All right. Next race.

Starting point is 01:31:17 I'm going on the other side of the stage. So I switched sides of the stage, but they swapped one of the people out and it was like this little girl and i was like okay well i need to prove that i'm good so i was like crushing everybody but my plan was to pull off to the side right before the end and not actually win the race and then i didn't realize that they had the training wheels thing on so i turned into the side and it dragged me over the finish line and forced me to win. So I like crushed this whole race and then I get to the end, smack into the wall and then drag over. And a bunch of people were like,

Starting point is 01:31:58 what? Like we understood. You didn't have to do that. I was like, I didn't want to. The real joke is Luke thinks he crushed it but he was the only one with the training wheels on oh man so it was uh it was quite the moment yeah it felt like a jerk totally looked totally looked cool at that event for sure anywho somebody jailbroke a prison laptop yeah twitter user zefrey wenting bought a prison laptop which i didn't know was a thing yeah all electronics prison has to be so they have like transparent pcs or uh tv sorry and everything transparent or translucent whatever oh sure

Starting point is 01:32:45 sure clear plastic so they bought a prison laptop off of ebay apparently assuming that it would be a normal laptop in a clear chassis the laptop's case and keyboard are transparent in order to make it harder for an inmate to smuggle contraband but it also had no storage drive no usb port and no apparent operating system the computer consisted almost entirely of an intel celeron n3450 four gigs of lpdr3 memory a wi-fi module one sata port exactly one and a proprietary connector for a dock of some kind zephyr wenting crowdsourced advice on how to jailbreak it and wound up bypassing the password, hotwiring in a USB hub, and installing Ubuntu. Wenting then bypassed the system's hard drive ban list in order to add an SSD, followed, shortly thereafter, by playing Free Doom.

Starting point is 01:33:39 Of course. Um, I mean, that's about it. I just thought this was pretty funny. Um, here's the post on Twitter Yeah I just had No idea that this was a thing Yeah I only heard about this I heard about this before this but only fairly

Starting point is 01:33:56 Recently and apparently it's like all electronics I would just buy the laptop That came in that chassis that's awesome Yeah that's sweet And if anyone from framework is watching um please oh that'd be sick i would be i would be super into this so cool anyway neat what else we got oh sponsors yeah the show is brought to you today by Manscaped. Shaving around your boys can be scary.

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Starting point is 01:37:16 All right, Dan, hit me. Hold on, I got to get up. Wait, it's just a game that you buy for mobile? The market's changing. I know we're like done the ad, but like... I know, right? That makes me actually infinitely more interested in it. I'm so excited for the future.

Starting point is 01:37:35 I might just go pick that up. That's sweet. It also reminds me a lot of chess puzzles, which I like a lot. In-person transactions. Buying things once. What year is it? The good old days are now we're back bringing back stone tablets yeah hey i told you the abacus was a good idea i i bet you if someone made like an rt or artisanal stone tablets oh yeah that would be they could they could sell like yeah they could they could definitely sell yeah hi ldl i'm a relatively new mainframe storage engineer cool do you think going deep

Starting point is 01:38:13 into mainframe or legacy technologies is a boon for companies in need or backing yourself into a corner limiting options for companies in need i mean if you need it then you need it yeah i mean i think that for a long time the cloud was just treated like this this one size fits all solution to every problem and i remember being really frustrated because we would take this constant criticism for building storage servers. Why are these idiots not just putting in the, do you have any idea how much it costs to upload? Somebody had to build a server somewhere. The upload is often decently cheap and then they will destroy you whenever

Starting point is 01:39:01 you need to recover. I know. I know. The point is just somebody somebody had to buy the hard drive it can be us it can be someone else someone had to buy it and they're gonna get paid it's that simple it's that simple there is no free lunch so people would be like why aren't they not using the cloud sometimes there's nice scalability and and you get discounts and stuff but like we video editing we need to be able to access it you're not gonna video edit from a google drive yeah like are you

Starting point is 01:39:32 high yeah some people do but like it's a terrible experience no it's a terrible experience and just the i guess the thing that drove me most crazy was the level uh of i don't know, pomposity? Pompous. You know, just like how right people thought they were about how silly we were. My solution of 17 USB-connected external hard drives is definitely better. No, it wasn't those guys. It was the cloud guys. They're like, it's so, this is the past.

Starting point is 01:40:00 And it's like, you know what? Yeah, it's caused problems, but not for a long time. It would have been worse. At not for a long time it would have been worse at all points in time it would have been worse so i don't know it is what it is because even even when there's a big issue with it we have the backups which is the equivalent of no we have it in the cloud so it's like well now we do we didn't have the backups then well and like it's been a while i don't know man and a lot of the people who looked

Starting point is 01:40:25 at the petabyte project data loss and were like see see i was right no you weren't because i just wasn't going to pay that kind of money to store all that in the cloud it wasn't the data wasn't that important and it's something i said i said explicitly in the video in fact i'm pretty sure i said it when we built the petabyte project i was like this is a single copy i know that because i don't want to pay for a redundant copy of it that is a decision i am making we have the youtube videos that are uploaded google probably isn't just going to shut down youtube i know they shut down a lot of things but they're probably not just going to shut down youtube um so it's not like the raw footage was always a nice to have yeah it was not a need to have yeah these days things are a lot safer

Starting point is 01:41:10 but the petabyte project server which now is like three petabytes or something like that is still not replicated it it has there's only one copy it's it's redundantly stored it's it's raided but there's no replication if it goes down it goes down and that's too bad we have like three or four copies of wanuk server that matters a lot because that's got footage that we have not yet edited there is no finished video it's not uploaded to floatplane or youtube or whatever else anywho hit me again dan hi lld in the u.s we've recently had a cyber attack on charge health change change health care that has shut down about a fifth of all hair health care transactions haircuts haircuts was wondering if you've heard about it up in canada no

Starting point is 01:42:00 no but i think this kind of thing is going to become more and more common. And especially by state actors, you're going to see them going after things like infrastructure. You know, all of a sudden, if, you know, the eastern seaboard doesn't have any working traffic lights or, you know, if your hydroelectric dams just stop functioning, it's going to be far more detrimental than traditional types of warfare and or will enhance the effectiveness of traditional types of warfare we're headed into very very scary times folks being positioned as a deterrent a lot of different countries it's an it's an open secret that they are in each other's infrastructure and it's like yeah if we end up in a war you'll have no water power anything mutually and that would suck a lot and like millions of civilians will die so maybe we shouldn't go after each other it's it's a it's another layer of of deterrence last one i got for you here yo linux just got

Starting point is 01:43:03 hired as the first salesman for a video game production company looking to grow video production company video production company sorry there's split here uh looking to grow how did you know it was the right time to build out a sales team and who's the first sales hire i knew it was the right time because I didn't have time to keep doing it. I was the one who was doing all the sponsor negotiations, and it was a ton of work. Obviously, I understand the product really well. I can sell it. But what I ended up doing was not selling it for as much as I could have

Starting point is 01:43:40 because I didn't have time to negotiate, and I couldn't get back to people in a timely manner. And so our customer service wasn't very good and stuff. And our first hire was actually Luke's friend because I don't know, he might know business stuff and stuff. I don't think I interviewed a ton of people for the position.

Starting point is 01:43:58 Yeah, I was wondering what your recollection of that would be because I was annoyed with Linus for giving money back to companies you remember this no we would like do a project and they'd be happy with it and you'd be like oh it wasn't good enough and they'd be like oh we're like pretty happy with it and you'd be like no it takes some money back you did that multiple times i know one of them i know i remember one of them very vividly but i know you did that that more than once. Which one do you remember vividly?

Starting point is 01:44:26 I'm super curious now. I don't remember that. It's probably fine for me to say the company name, but I'm just going to type it. Like one of my whole things, I talked to the sales team about this now is the idea is not to do a one-time deal. I can probably just say it, but I just...

Starting point is 01:44:41 Okay. The idea is not to do a one-time deal. The idea is to deliver enough value that they want to come back for more and to and to to have a recurring business relationship with with anyone who engages with you because it's so much easier to retain a customer than it is to attract a new one which i think is super legit but the original price was already low and they were happy with it yeah so he says it was corsair but what what was it though do you remember what project it was it was i was it the sword one i don't even remember a sword anything no there was like i jumped off a fence with a sword it was that time that was be quiet

Starting point is 01:45:25 okay it was that time frame but i'm pretty sure it was corsair hmm i think it was around that time though yeah i'm not sure i could be wrong but it's been too long was it a production job like did the video belong to them i don't think it would have been corsair at that time then because i don't know that we were it was a little bit they were building out their own internal video production team at that time and i think they were like trying to not be dependent i could have bits wrong but i remembered it was like it was frustrating being a part of the team and seeing linus sit at his desk for extended periods of time when he could be doing other things um doing business deals and doing them in a lot of in my opinion uh in a lot of ways poorly so hey did your paycheck ever

Starting point is 01:46:08 bounce no all right then i don't want to hear it but i was like except to me how much i mark up your labor sir this is a significant i didn't make this system but damn it i'm gonna participate in it wait what this is a significant potential growth is to get someone else to do this because maybe they'll do a better job and also linus's time being used for this also just sucks so there was there was like a two-fold thing so i brought nick out for like dinner or something and i was like bro you need to like quit school and come do this crazy thing with me i know it's nuts i know your parents are probably not going to be stoked mine weren't stoked but it'll be fine his parents are okay with it now yeah yeah i i chatted with them about it recently um and then yeah that that happened they seem chill with it now i think

Starting point is 01:46:56 you interviewed like basically no i think it was basically just yeah i think i might have just interviewed nick yeah um yeah yeah i don't think that was a stage where we're exactly getting like a lot of and by the way no luke's paycheck did not include room and board he had to pay to pay rent not much uh yeah that's what i was gonna clarify and when he was living with us at our house uh it was even worse because we had to feed him. Which was your idea. I know. Which was awesome.

Starting point is 01:47:28 Look, I was trying. That was an insane deal. I was trying. I try to create an environment that is mutually beneficial, Luke. Yeah. I remember. I don't know if I overheard it, or I might have even just genuinely been there for the conversation.

Starting point is 01:47:43 But I remember Yvonne kind of breaking down the costs of like ingredients even not even counting like her time for cooking it by the way is valuable yeah yeah and she was like this just really doesn't make any sense if i remember correctly you guys were like negative just on the ingredients let alone giving me a room to live in so i was like wow this is an incredibly good deal um yeah as long as you don't mind hearing your boss bang yeah giving me a room to live in. So I was like, wow, this is an incredibly good deal. Um, yeah. As long as you don't mind hearing your boss bang. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:48:11 Which I mean, see, I didn't realize until much later how paper thin those walls were. Yeah. Cause I never, I never went in that room. I didn't care. Like that was not a room that I would go into directly across the hall.

Starting point is 01:48:23 Yeah. Like literally directly our doors faced each other yep yeah that's all it's all good yep i had headphones like it's it's actually like fine i don't know you just play music do something else it doesn't matter i can't the the place i lived before that was uh like shared living scenario with a bunch of college age people yeah the place i lived before that was a shared living scenario with a bunch of college-age people. Yeah. The place I lived before that was another shared living scenario with a bunch of college-age people. This was not a new thing.

Starting point is 01:48:52 I was already fully desensitized to this. See, the thing is, it was for me. I never lived in a shared space with a bunch of college-aged people. And I just had never really gone in that room and said hey hon can you like make noises and i'll see if i can hear them turns out yeah so there's that yeah yeah anyways uh what are we supposed to think i think it's i mean topics are on the card so okay yeah i think it's topics uh will ai replace call centers in brackets probably

Starting point is 01:49:35 not clarna an e-commerce e-commerce an e-commerce fintech company i'm sorry linus we're both all messed up today yeah uh we'll do better has been bragging that its new open ai enabled customer service chatbot has been doing the jobs of 700 customer service workers equivalent to the number of employees that laid off in 2022 coincidence i don't think they say yes yeah uh this has sparked concerns at some customer service centered firms but others are skeptical according to clarna the bot has handled around 2.3 million service chats in the past month around two-thirds of chat conversations with customers clarna claims that the bot has a satisfaction rate on par with human agents and will drive a 40 million dollar usd profit improvement in 2024 however people who've actually used the chatbot say it's mostly just filtering customers who

Starting point is 01:50:33 neglected to read the faq and supporting documents mostly through telling them direct quotes from the supporting documents which is a job that customer support people do i would point out discussion question how much of the fear we have about job automation thanks to ai is a matter of reframing trends that were already happening yeah because like this is there was already customer service chatbots yeah they didn't need to be ai a lot of them would be pretty effective better the lego one is awesome yeah i sent it to the ltd store guys i was like i'm glad i didn't have to talk to a human yeah well more more accurately i'm glad i didn't have to wait around for a human yeah because it just i just had a missing piece and it just immediately resolved highly transactional things like that which most customer service

Starting point is 01:51:25 inquiries are yeah it's nice to be able to effectively type through a form hey i got i got the wrong thing it's a dynamic form hey what's the status of my order like that's mostly what people will contact you about yeah yeah um moving on lenovo good topic yeah launches repairable laptops this is really exciting lenovo is partnering with i fix it can i fix all these brands can i fix it win harder like i don't i don't get it this is crazy they're partnering with i fix it on a series of thinkpad business laptops with user replaceable parts owners of the t14 gen 5 and t16 gen 3 will be able to independently swap out the battery ram ssd and wi-fi module actually that's not really as exciting as i thought it might be um our notes that is not more that's then used to be default

Starting point is 01:52:29 that's then used to be default um oh okay well this is less of a threat to framework than i sort of thought it might be uh the cpu is still soldered although i would have assumed that that's they just they just come in bga packages these days um are we sure that's it is that a miss they will come with easily accessible repair guides and videos though that's good i fix it gave the new laptops a repairability score of 9.3 out of 10 so investment disclosure framework appears to be safe for now since lenovo is not talking about upgradability and that's a big i don't have any investment in framework they have a massive value add over this that's not even close however i'm willing to bet these thinkpads are more price competitive probably work yeah because they know that at most you will be fixing it not using you know lower margin uh lower cost

Starting point is 01:53:23 parts to upgrade it. So you'll have to, you'll have to rebuy a laptop if you actually want a faster one. So this is cool. And I'm really glad to see that this conversation is not going anywhere, but so far, none of the tier ones I've seen what framework is doing and gone. I can do that.

Starting point is 01:53:42 And I would like them to, I been part of the goal the whole time yeah i uh i have no intention to sell my framework shares they're only they're only profitable if i ever sell them um so for me it's just an investment into this movement i want to see it be a success and uh i'm really i'm really glad ultimately i think what i was trying to do has borne out better than i could have expected yeah you've been well i i don't want to attribute too much to you but i think framework's existence and its success has inspired at least some amount of change especially in the laptop industry but we're seeing it spill out to other ones as well. And I think that for better or for worse, the discourse around me and framework,

Starting point is 01:54:30 whether it's people complaining about, you know, the ethics of it or, or people, whatever, just the, the, the association I think has been good for the framework brand.

Starting point is 01:54:41 Yeah. And so that goal that I had of putting my money into it and saying no really i believe in this enough to do this um i think it's had an impact kind of ironically i think whenever whenever you do the uh like warning i am an investor in this thing people are going to look into it it like gives it more exposure it's almost like more helpful that you have to tell people every time you talk about a laptop it like totally works out because the main goal sometimes i forget because it just it makes no difference to me yeah um i'm gonna use it the main reason i daily drive it is not because it's my favorite laptop the main reason that i daily drive it is because i want to

Starting point is 01:55:26 force myself to be a user so that i can give them feedback anytime i run into a problem yeah uh so that i i can make a difference like that's that's the that's the reason i'm doing it um there's multiple laptops that i like better than it i'm a huge fan of the asus rg flow x13 for example we're looking at things awesome standardization updates for systems here and a big conversation is like how many people are going to be how many people are we going to move to laptops effectively oh like and not even have desktops anymore yeah oh interesting tell me more yeah and in that conversation because there's been like a cost benefit discussion one of them is that a lot of people that have desktops tend on eventually ending up with both so if they're gonna have both

Starting point is 01:56:15 they might as well just have a laptop and a solid dock uh then we're not paying for like two licenses of things like our yeah basically so it's not just cheaper in licenses it's cheaper in hardware it's cheaper in a lot of different ways it might also even literally be easier for them to just have one instead of two um and then they can also have this uh company secured device that they can take home if they need to work from home for being sick or whatever else other reason etc etc etc there's there's a lot of arguments for it shouldn't be everybody obviously i want to put editors on laptops i'll just be stupid um but uh some some people and in that conversation it's like okay what do we go with because we basically just want to have one because this only really fits the use case of the like low-end desktop

Starting point is 01:57:01 user who basically just needs a browser or that type of stuff because if the second you need like a gpu well i don't really want you on a laptop anyways so it only really fits one type of user so we probably only need one type of laptop so what don't when do we go with framework keeps working its way into the conversation then working its way back out because they're pricey yeah cost matters right especially when we're buying like a bunch of them and we need to have some in reserve. That's pretty costly. But then we do still care about things like repairability. We do still care about...

Starting point is 01:57:32 Total cost of ownership. Yes. So sometimes it kind of works its way back in. Right. But what if all that was broken was a stupid, you know, fingerprint sensor or whatever the case may be? And you know what? There's a lot of really repairable laptops from guys like hp yeah from guys like lenovo yeah but will they

Starting point is 01:57:51 maintain stock yeah of all those little replacement bits and bobs i don't know it does i will to throw lenovo uh a bone here it does help they're partnered with ifixit that makes me believe they will a little bit more um the the partner with iFixit every time that happens my like how much i believe in this thing that they're doing does go up i hope iFixit doesn't sell out me too because right now they have an amazing name to throw into projects yeah iFixit is awesome i i immediately trust someone more when they're partnered with iF ifix it's 100 which is a hard thing to earn and easy to lose very easy thing to lose so hopefully they keep holding on to i believe they will um but you never know someone's going to retire at some point uh leadership will

Starting point is 01:58:37 roll over crystal d fier 88 asks wouldn't framework just supply laptops for ltt and float plane wow so let me let me put it this way. As a shareholder of Framework, Wouldn't want them to do that. Would I want them to do that? Just give away laptops? If I found out that that was a thing that they were going to do, I'd be like, who else are you guys giving laptops to?

Starting point is 01:58:57 Are you guys crazy? We're not even asking them. You're backordered for four months. Yeah. Ship your laptops to your customers, you mad lads. For real. Yeah. Like if that was a move that was going to be done it would be for effectively marketing and advertising and they're and they better be right on shipment so it's not a problem yeah yeah yeah no please

Starting point is 01:59:17 no yeah we got other things to work on also we got like a hundred people so yeah it'd be like at least it's not going to everybody though oh that's true that's true so some people will still end up having desktops and laptops right some people will end up the writers will need them writers are probably going to need them writers are probably still going to need desktops yep it is what it is but like me for example i could just have a laptop would you go 13 or 16 if you were getting a framework do you need a gpu oh is that the difference i don't it had the 16 has a gpu i don't need a gpu to be honest oh but you would just want the bigger screen yeah okay okay that makes sense oh man see that's the thing is framework doesn't have a broad enough product portfolio because i would tell you you well you should just get something with a

Starting point is 02:00:00 bigger screen that's a thinner device because you don't if you don't need the power then you don't need all that bulk you don't need all that weight has a really good cooling system in this did you need that no yeah it's tough it's tough you should use that folding one that i had for a little bit that thing's so cool yeah that one is pretty the review is finally coming soon part of this whole thing like yeah like i could maybe have something different but part of the whole thing is in general standardization this guy i could have something different because you know i'm in charge what a guy but i'm gonna have something too i'm gonna have something different too i'm gonna have this laptop of course yeah i'm gonna have it right now sure no i don't know i'd rather have help hosting the show

Starting point is 02:00:38 actually wait no okay i'm good i have a gpu but yeah like we're trying to pick one oh no that oh did i unplug something oh no i think so cool what has happened like it just shut down yeah nice that's uh sweet i'm helpful like that i'm fast yeah quick fingers there you go um you should see how quick I am with my whole fist, though. What? I think Luke missed it. Oh. I don't think he saw. Really?

Starting point is 02:01:18 Oh, that's even better. That's pretty funny. You'll have to watch the VOD. Yeah, I know. I have no idea. Oh, boy. Don't worry about it. I hope you allow that type of thing on Floatplane. We we definitely do i don't even know what it was but yeah yeah we've uh we've we've

Starting point is 02:01:31 debated internally many times you know what would be our limits for content on floatplane i think luke and i are both pretty uh if it's legal it's uh it's allowed on floatplane but we've never really had anyone approach us being like you know i want to do only fans but i don't want to go on only fans i don't have really yeah oh i didn't know that yeah oh okay and it just came down to well i i think the platform features were pretty limited back in the day yes i don't think we even support dm they wanted to upload pictures and we only at that time supported videos that's funny and i was like welp sorry only videos and they were like nah okay sounds like don't do that guys how about this how about just don't just don't subscribe to it that's that's the thing that's that's the

Starting point is 02:02:19 reason why we kind of think this way is you would literally have to be actively giving them money in order to see their content so if you don't want to see their content don't actively give them money now we are partnered with stripe and uh effectively paypal through braintree so they exert a significant portion of control which is very interesting to me and very interesting that so many people are cool with this but they exert actually a lot of control um so it wouldn't be exactly the same as something like an only fans because if we have nudity on the platform it has to fall under the artistic license assuming anyone ever noticed anyway yeah because they have to pay to see it and we're a pretty small platform but um so that's why for a long time there i don't think it's this popular anymore because people just yeeted over to only fans and that just went full ham but for a long

Starting point is 02:03:15 time there there was a ton of ham there was there was a ton there's lots of there's a ton of artistic nudity on patreon a lot of people were doing cosplays while nude why do you think that's happening because it fit under the terms and conditions that patreon had because patreon was partnered with whoever at the time right a striper payment for whoever it was yeah yeah it was it was the payment processor that was running through patreon at the time and then only fans came out and everyone dropped the yeah like pork everyone dropped the like clams everyone dropped the charade and just started going fully for it because they were only doing the artistic part to fit under that license but that's what we would have as well as it would have

Starting point is 02:03:55 and longer pork i had i had to have a conversation around that time that i had that conversation with that person i had to have a conversation with my development team at the time it'd be like like if one of these things has a transcoding failure oh i see yeah i was like are you guys cool with this and i like advise people at the time i was like you should like talk to your partner. Right. Right. Yeah. So I was like,

Starting point is 02:04:28 don't tell me right now. Right. Yeah. Like go think about it and come back. And everyone was like, yeah, so I don't think it's going to happen that often anyways. And like, then it ended up never happening at all.

Starting point is 02:04:39 Yeah. Okay. It didn't matter. Anchovies though. I'm not sure what that's a euphemism for yeah that's a difficult one yeah you're just very small yep small pointy wait plenty of hole um big swarm packed in all together this week in ai background music and 2d game worlds yeah adobe has revealed a prototype for a new generative ai tool project music gen ai control that allows users to both generate and edit music it's broadly expected that adobe will eventually integrate this tool into premiere and audition like the

Starting point is 02:05:19 integrated generative fill into photoshop google deep mind researchers have published a paper debuting a machine learning model that can create a playable game world from a single image a general in generative interactive environments or genie was trained on over 200 000 hours of videos from 2d platformers and currently can only make very low resolution 2d platformers that operate for 16 seconds at one frame per second but yeah gotta start somewhere i guess yeah and finally researchers at alibaba have created an ai system called emote portrait alive or emo that can convincingly animate portrait photos emote portrait alive or emo yeah emo that can convincingly animate portrait photos to show them speaking or even singing along to an audio track uh okay this video demonstration

Starting point is 02:06:14 of emo shows sora's ai sora ai's famous tokyo lady talking as well as animated images of real life politicians okay so let's have a look at this well as animated images of real life politicians okay so let's have a look at this really they went straight for the politicians angle portrait alive huh i mean some parts of this are pretty uh this doesn't look better than what we already have to be completely honest well it's pretty good yeah remember too that they are they're they're doing this with one image oh yeah so here it shows the reference image oh and then it shows her talking okay that's actually pretty crazy yeah that's pretty nuts okay all right what are we looking at here Okay.

Starting point is 02:07:00 All right. What are we looking at here? It's not perfect, but this black and white one in particular is, the fact that it comes off of one image is actually wild. Wow. That is, uh, there's odd eye movements here and there,

Starting point is 02:07:23 but if someone sent me this, I would not immediately realize. Frame rate feels weird. Different things like that feel weird, but yeah, there's a good comparison at the end of that video where it shows off a bunch of different models compared to theirs. Uh,

Starting point is 02:07:39 at the end of that video, uh, the one down underneath the abstract. Yeah. It should be near the end. This one, this one down underneath the abstract yeah should be near the end this one this one here yeah oh okay at the end you said yeah i think the the comparison is near the end oh okay uh is this gonna keep playing

Starting point is 02:08:00 dream talk ours man i wish those were a little longer anyway scary yep want to talk about hp printer subscriptions sure i guess HP has actually launched a printer subscription, as hinted at previously in a wildly unpopular interview with CEO Enrique Lores. HP's all-in plan offers customers an option of three rented printers and a scaling monthly fee. The cheapest plan is $7 a month. Oh my god and has a cap of 20 pages per month i was trying to stay calm but what the f**k crap dude 20 pages a month for seven i could literally go to costco and print like photos for that there's a 12-day grace period after which the customer will be forced into a two-year commitment or a cancellation

Starting point is 02:09:13 fee that is worth a significant fraction of the retail cost of the printer that fee then doubles after 30 days meaning that if you attempt to return the printer 13 days after sign-up, it'll cost more than buying the printer outright. This is complete madness. I feel like a scam. HP will replace a printer if it starts to fail or after it's been in use for two years. The printer also informs HP whenever it's running out of ink,

Starting point is 02:09:42 which HP will send to the customer for no additional charge. Okay, so it includes ink. That's something. Yeah, but... But 20 pages? Yeah, exactly. For $7 a month? That's $85 a year.

Starting point is 02:09:53 I'm not going to spend that on ink. $85 a year for 240 pages of text. Are you kidding me? 40 pages of text are you kidding me hp is marketing this subscription as a way to leave behind the hassle and never-ending struggle of owning a printer hey hp i've got another idea to take away the hassle and never-ending struggle of owning a printer don't buy a f***ing hp printer how about that cool what's the difference okay so the the plan isn't the scaling of the plan is by printer i'm looking at their official site right now um and so an hp

Starting point is 02:10:32 elijah says all 20 of my pages will be solid black you're still getting host uh hp envy is seven bucks a month the hp inspire is nine bucks a month the hp office no no no i gotta interrupt you here why the f**k is voodoo pc branding being used on printers remember when they bought voodoo pc so they could use the envy brand because the envy why is that on a white boring rectangular printer okay do you know what do you know what a voodoo envy looks like okay this yeah they were sick this is a voodoo envy hold on one moment please uh where is it oh actually i stand corrected this is an omen okay so this was their uh this was they did this gold-plated one this was a gaming pc yeah uh hold on i forget what the envy was no no the envy was

Starting point is 02:11:35 their laptop okay hold on hold on let me find it let me find it okay um there okay this this is a voodoo envy can i go back to your computer yeah that is not an envy anything it's an envy inspire no it isn't it neither inspires envy nor does it inspire anything else look at it moderate i i this this whole thing sucks like look at this one sec okay so i got the printers right bambi says maximum speed of 10 pages per minute so you get two minutes of printing per month i uh imagine a car that you could drive for two minutes at maximum two minutes at maximum uh maximum speedometer speed a month uh so if when you click on compare plans because it just shows these plans right starting at whatever when you click compare plans it's just printer specs there's no it details nothing it

Starting point is 02:12:38 doesn't even say how many times you can print yet compare plans just printer specs i love that i love that the paper tray holds a six month supply the output capacity is three months you could not clear the output tray on your printer that middle one for three months yeah okay so you just print things just so that you can use up your your allocation not because you actually need the stuff you just print things just so that you can use up your, your allocation, not because you actually need the stuff. You just leave it there. Guys. I know I needed to click customize plan. My, my joke, the joke that I was pointing out was you click compare plan and it doesn't

Starting point is 02:13:13 compare the plan. It just compares the printers. Anyways, now that we're on customized plan, you can select the three different printers, whichever one you want. So let's just go with HP office jet pro. It actually looks like. That looks like an office jet pro. actually looks like that looks like an office jet pro exactly at least it's not trying to pretend to be an nv inspire no okay yeah i'm

Starting point is 02:13:30 actually gonna go with nv inspire because this is this is like a if you wanted a nice printer for at home right seems about right i don't know sure looks pretty much the same as the printers we used to sell when i was at best buy um 13 bucks a month is 100 pages a month nine dollars a month is 20 pages a month and they put popular on the moderate one which is 100 pages a month so they clearly want you to do this because they i don't think they expect anyone to get light so i think the whole 20 pages intentionally terrible yeah i think it's like uh whatever yeah it's like a whatever. It's there so that you look at it and go, oh, I don't want that.

Starting point is 02:14:10 And then you go up to this. Can I propose a different solution? Just buy yourself a cheap color laser. Laser, yeah. The nozzles don't, no, you're not going to be printing photos on it. I'm sorry. Just do that at Costco. But the nozzles don't get clogged. So you will probably, if you are one of those light users,

Starting point is 02:14:30 you will probably never replace a toner drum. And you will probably never replace that printer. Up until, no, I was about to say up until very recently, but I still have it. I still have my Samsung ML16 or ML20 something, whatever it is, color laser printer. I don't remember the last time i replaced toner in it and i can still manage to fight my way through driver installations even though hp these butt chugs uh bought samsung's printer business and make it really difficult

Starting point is 02:14:56 to use old samsung printers on new devices the one thing i couldn't use it on was chrome os i had to have something slightly newer to get it to work on chrome os and there's some like hacky way to set up a relay or something but i was like i'll just use my other computer that's probably the same printer you had when we did the linux challenge yeah it is and it was flawless back then yeah it's fine on linux but it won't work on chrome os because they don't have the driver and there might be some way to like hack it in or something i just didn't feel like dealing with it when my desktop was right there and I could just go print it there.

Starting point is 02:15:26 So they say that the HP Envy Inspire is the popular printer option. If you go down to the standard HP Envy, which is probably everything most people need, they recommend the terrible plan. Oh, I see. So they only want you buying it for $7 a month if you have a printer that's worth like 70 bucks. Yeah. I see.

Starting point is 02:15:47 OfficeJet Pro, what do they recommend there? 100 pages a month on the OfficeJet Pro is 17 bucks a month. That is actual madness. That's crazy. My goodness. Please no one do this. Go buy a laser printer. I'm going to,

Starting point is 02:16:07 I'm going to go on Facebook marketplace right now. So if you want to buy me some time, I'm going to, I'm going to shop for laser printers right now. Yeah. Sounds good. Uh, I don't know if there's any other topics for us,

Starting point is 02:16:17 so I might need to get Dan to throw me a thing. Yeah. We're done all the topics actually. Oh, you got one for me. I'm sure. Uh, is it after dark time? It actually. Uh-oh. You got one for me? I'm sure. Is it after dark time?

Starting point is 02:16:29 It might be after dark time. It is. Can we just transition to that? You want to just do that now? No, here we go. Hey, Luke. Yeah. Last WAN show, you mentioned about people using remote raid passes instead of going outside. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:16:40 Have you seen people playing on multiple phones? And is this a form of cheating or not it's the it's not a competitive game what do you mean cheating this this is only cheating yourself i have so many issues with pokemon go and pokemon go players i have so many i'm gonna go get some welches and then i'll be happy to listen if you're looking at printers i will okay he's just also going to do that good choice but yeah it's who cares who cares at all it's uh it's oh there's there there is technically pvp in the game um if you want to look up strategies one of the most popular ones is to basically afk it's called tanking you basically afk and drop your rating and then you play back up and win all the time and get all the rewards for winning all the time and you just do that over

Starting point is 02:17:29 and over again um so no one cares really also the pvp in pokemon go is horrible and if you really wanted to uh play pvp pokemon you should go play in other ways the um as far as i can tell it's the only good thing about the current pokemon standard mainline video games is their uh online competitive play because people actually do seem to like it so that's cool so go do that or something i don't know don't don't play pvp pokemon go um the the whole remote raid passes thing is uh i can get i can get pretty spicy on that but i would have no issue if they completely remove that from the game um i have i even have some ideas on how they can make because people people immediately when you try to say that will jump on you and be like raw rural players whatever um i think there's a lot of different solutions that they could do to

Starting point is 02:18:24 make that better. I sometimes like to bring up my story of the first day that Pokemon Go came out, which is I was like, I want to get a Geodude and went to go hike a mountain with Pokemon Go. And then immediately was like, there's nothing here. What's happening? I didn't think they would just make it a city game. I didn't expect that to be a thing. So yeah, they can obviously make it a city game i didn't expect that to be a thing so yeah they could obviously make that better um i think there's also ways that they could make raiding

Starting point is 02:18:49 for rural communities better by um by there was this this idea that i had where like if you if you like battled in a gym somewhere you could have like established that you've been at that gym before so if you go to a gym that's in your hometown that has the same rate as this other gym you could link into that one and play with the people that were there but you'd still have to physically go to it um people saying it's more accessibility it's like yeah okay but a lot of people are not using it that way yeah and like it's it's a little hard to like okay we need to break the entire core functionality of the game so that people that have difficulty going outside don't have to go outside it's like okay i understand but the whole point of the game is going outside so that puts them in a

Starting point is 02:19:37 really difficult position where they can't have solutions no what are they gonna have you have to like upload a picture of your broken leg yeah and then like what upload a new one every month to show that's not healed yet like like what like what are we even asking for here the way that i've experienced it is um i'll like go out to a community day and go walk around i'm i'm all stoked because i get in my like 18 kilometers or whatever i'm like yeah this is why i'm playing i'm out moving i'm talking to people this is good uh and then the community day ends and i'm like oh i could like extend this experience for myself by going and doing some raids and everyone around is like yeah i'm gonna go home just send me a send me an invite i'll remote raid in and the last one that i did after

Starting point is 02:20:21 the event when it was like time to go do raids literally everyone left and i had no less than eight people ask me to just remote invite them to raids and i was the last person there and i was like oh no i'm just gonna go home i'm not gonna like facilitate remote inviting a bunch of people i don't care like which which reduces the amount of like there there is a very negative impact on these types of things on the community. And I actually, personally, this is going to drive a bunch of people nuts. And I understand I am not a friendly person in the Pokemon Go community. I'm here for it.

Starting point is 02:20:53 People don't like me. But I respect that Niantic has held back raid passes and limits how many you can use per day. how many you can use per day because on on one hand people will rage at them for any amount of uh you know microtransactions in this free game which is crazy they have to do something or else they won't be a company anymore and then on the other hand they'll demand that you allow them to buy the higher priced remote raid passes because remote raid passes are more expensive i'm telling this to linus because he probably doesn't know um so they can sit at home and raid from home and i'm like no the reason why this game is sick is because you go out and walk the game itself is terrible oh i sit on my phone i go like it's not it's not a good game the pvp is terrible the catching of pokemon is terrible it's it's like

Starting point is 02:21:41 designed to keep you in the cities which is not cool like it's not actually a good game the good part of the game is that it inspires it gives you some gamified reason to go out and walk and be outside touch grass so like do that and if you're not going to do that if you're sitting at home man there are so many better games to play like i don't know um people don't want to hear that truth man but i want to play this one stop just like wasting your money like a remote rate pass i'm guessing it's all obfuscated because it's through coins and you would have to buy coins to be able to buy it whatever um i'm guessing it's at least a dollar dollar 50 and you're getting a couple minutes of enjoyment out of this.

Starting point is 02:22:27 And then at the end, the thing that you want is like a high-value Pokemon out of it, which is going to be extremely rare, because it's either shiny or it's like 100% IV thingamajigger. Both of those are extremely rare. You are probably going to be disappointed. Statistically, you're going to be disappointed at the end of this thing disappointed statistically you're going to be disappointed at the end of this thing so you're going to spend a lot of money per minute compared to

Starting point is 02:22:50 pretty much any other activity you can do and be disappointed most of the time just don't do it just don't do it nike i don't know and like to be clear play the game however you want i'm just saying when i when i see people complain about this stuff he'll judge you yeah kind of a little bit and you can judge me that's fine maybe i'm a bad person for whatever reason i just i the only reason why i see pokemon go is a good game is because it gets me it gets me outside it's something that i can very easily play with a variety of members of my family I can get my mom my dad out they can have a good time we can all be walking around together talking about probably unrelated things throwing some pokeballs around being guided around by this little game because it's like oh there's

Starting point is 02:23:39 some cool thing over there there's a gym over there we can do a raid we can do this other thing so it inspires you to keep moving keep walking around do this healthy positive good things um and then people take it and they're like no i just want to sit on the couch all the time i'm happy that pokemon go introduced a system so that you could still play it during covid when you were supposed to stay inside that was smart it was a good move we can go outside now go outside again cool yeah did you play ingress yes and for the exact same reasons why i like pokemon go all right hit me dan oh sure are we moving to after dark or did you find pictures of printers oh right i remember oh here let's see what kind of things show up on linus's facebook marketplace let's play that game first nice hey charizard cars that makes sense listen to us kids toys yep whatever the f**k this is charizard

Starting point is 02:24:31 i know i know what a charizard is but what is this i have no idea exactly okay model gundam world war ii stuff okay uh custom kinetic computer cases i mean man facebook marketplace like you know what did i do i clicked the wrong thing so i'm i'm navigating from uh very far away right now yeah that's cool that's sweet this is probably like uh it's probably like some how is it a hundred dollars yeah it's probably like they. How is it a hundred dollars? Yeah. It's probably like they buy them on AliExpress and resell them or something. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:25:09 No. Nine 11. Ooh. A Sony Q. Q. Oh, I think you mean clay. No,

Starting point is 02:25:19 no, they spelled it right. I just can't see from here. Personal entertainment organizer. What is a personal Entertainment Organizer? Whoa. Oh, it's an organizer. Okay.

Starting point is 02:25:33 Neat. A CW Devastator. Ooh, Futurama Complete. 19 DVD disc set in a bender head. That's actually very tempting okay yeah yeah that's probably pretty representative okay let's learn about printers so laser printer nice 48 bucks i have no idea if that one's any good, but you could almost certainly use the,

Starting point is 02:26:06 oh, you know what? Let's search for color. Color. HP. Darn it. And that says monochrome. Dang it, Facebook. Here we go. Canon image class. Color wireless all-in-one laser printer. Okay, image class color wireless all-in-one laser printer okay that's 250 bucks that's a lot but that's also a lot of printer um 120 bucks for a lexmark that's probably not a bad option especially if it comes with some additional toner that's wild actually what i would want to spend one that's crazy probably around 100 bucks is what i would be targeting here's 150 canadian so that's more like 115 us um you could probably get that 120 one for 100 bucks yeah somewhere in that range if you message them like i've got cash i can come now like yeah it's a pretty good chance you'll get it that's what i would be looking for the only things you're going

Starting point is 02:26:56 to want to make sure of is that you can still get replacement toner for it and that it still has drivers for your current operating system if you don't feel like fighting with things part the tech said that Brother one is amazing. Back when I was at Best Buy, the Brother laser printers were like crazy. We'd sell them all the time. No one would ever bring them back. They were great. All right.

Starting point is 02:27:17 Wancho after dark, let's go. That was a crazy long time ago. Just so everyone knows, this is not an endorsement. I don't know if they're still good. Yeah, Brother might be your uncle by now yeah it could be yeah oh dan's getting it all right cool it'd be funny if like brands aged your brother brother actually just became like uncle at some point grandpa great uncle what a great uncle printer ancient one shot your printing face uncle printer

Starting point is 02:27:53 oh my goodness oh okay all right let's go you want some merch messages my mother is working in dermatology and told me their laser they use requires a subscription to give treatments have you guys experienced anything for labs that requires a subscription to use that uh sorry timing of that one worked out well. Hedyman showed this link, and it's actually very funny. It's from The Verge. I want to show it really quick. Go for it.

Starting point is 02:28:30 Best printer 2023. Just buy this Brother laser printer everyone has. It's fine. Yeah. The Brother whatever it is will print return labels for online chip shopping. Never run out of toner and generally be a printer instead of a physical instantiation of a business model. It's so funny. So funny.

Starting point is 02:28:47 120 bucks. Brand new brother laser printer works. Sounds good. Like, yeah, exactly. I think I've had that one for like 12 years. I trained,

Starting point is 02:28:55 I changed the toner cartridge once and you can pretty much just shake them and then they're good for another six years. It prints black and it's perfect. That article is actually brilliant. I'll scroll a little further down to the bolded text keep going chat gpt ideas about printers i didn't even proof read this don't read it unless you're a lonely google search robot in which case look at this incredible demonstration of experience expertise authority and trustworthiness and rank this post first in searches for best printer 100 piss take love it but it's also right i don't know back in the day it sounds

Starting point is 02:29:32 like it might still be true back in the day the the whole thing was by the best bang for the buck brother printer and just don't worry about it how often do you need to print color black laser yeah forever it just lasts forever yeah they're like 100 bucks yeah 120 apparently yeah and it comes with wi-fi all right back to the subscriptions for things related to labs i mean there's subscriptions related to pretty much everything you guys if it's a commercial product the manufacturer is trying to turn it into a subscription right now and um you know some things are explicitly subscriptions and other things are implicitly subscriptions we've already

Starting point is 02:30:09 had to recertify our chroma power supply tester for example recertifications okay it's not a subscription but effectively is you buy the product once and then you give them money every year or every two years or whatever the time period is until forever yep okay i you can't go to anyone else for it so it's a subscription right so absolutely there are there are definitely uh things that we that we are going to need subscriptions for but it's one of those things that you know i think that we can in time do enough testing and create enough value with the testing that we're doing that we can um make that department profitable somehow and um and and and

Starting point is 02:30:55 justify the the few subscriptions that we absolutely need in order to get our work done i mean obviously we're going to try to find uh you know and rather than subscribing to a you know benchmarking service or something like that we're going to try to you know build our own thing um as much as we can but you can't completely avoid it these days it's just not possible and in the case of those laser treatments yeah absolutely they just want a piece of of every transaction they don't want to just sell you the equipment and then let you profit off of it forever when they could take a piece of every single time you zap it yeah dicks everywhere dicks yep hello dll what's the shelf life of ptm 7950 honeywell states it's 12 months. Is it safe to use after? I will never use all of it in one year. Don't want to waste a good product.

Starting point is 02:31:48 So you asked a question and then you immediately answered it. I think it's 12 months. With that said, I would be extremely surprised if a product that is designed to last in your laptop for many years and many thermal cycles i would be very surprised if it suddenly evaporated after 12 months on a shelf i think if you just pretend it's cooling or heat transferring the things that it's between what i do suspect is that it may be more difficult to apply in that case. Like it may be harder to peel the thing. That may be the period of time that Honeywell validated it for in storage,

Starting point is 02:32:31 as opposed to the period of time that they actually expect it to last. But realistically, I'm not going to say anything other than what's on Honeywell's spec sheet. So 12 months, buy a small one. Most of the people that are actually a customer of honeywells are going to be buying in such a high quantity that that 12 months is more like yeah probably don't buy more than this worth of stock yeah so they're not yeah it's a yeah buy a subscription pretty much oh hold on uh nick just messaged me he says it's fine longer than that apparently kyle has used it after like four years but technically 12 months expiry because

Starting point is 02:33:12 that's what they certify it for it is less malleable malleable after 12 to 24 months yeah so application there you go all right i'm sure it's fine next up what do you think of the white house urging people to only use memory safe programming languages uh it's interesting the the whole tech you know developer twitter and social space is kind of memeing on it yeah let's go tech political grandpa yeah i don't think anyone's really acting on it so much um i wouldn't be too surprised if you were a development host of sorts that did development um and a development host did development uh what i meant to say is development host that did development for governments or or tried to play for development uh contracts for governments that you might want to start leaning

Starting point is 02:34:05 towards those because if the government's like hey use these things maybe you want to play into that a little bit i don't know i'm not in that space um but i suspect that might be a thing um yeah rust mentioned yeah yeah a lot of people are happy about that um it's cool i don't know um it's cool i don't know yeah i i don't see genuinely see or in conversations that i've had i don't think anyone's changing paths because of this but uh it's interesting and like i said i suspect government contractors might want to pay a little bit more attention than anyone else hi when dot e k dash c love the show this question is for linus planning on building a house in the future and was considering radiant floor heating but wanted opinions on it how have you been liking it uh radiant heating can be great uh it's if you live in a place where natural gas is inexpensive

Starting point is 02:35:02 like i do then it can be a very economical way to heat your house in the winter it is delightful when you are getting out of bed and on those winter mornings when you know you don't want to necessarily pay a ton of money to heat the house to tropical temperature but uh you do have your heat on on the floors and you step on those nice toasty floors. It's pretty cool. Dude, I don't have to worry about it. My building has a very high ratio of much older people in it.

Starting point is 02:35:33 That makes sense. And they just cook my apartment. Everyone else's apartments around us just crank the heat and it feels like it's summer. Oh, okay. Our heat like almost never turns on. That's pretty funny.

Starting point is 02:35:46 And it's never very cold. Every once in a blue moon, I will like notice there's not a ton of cars in the parking area. And then I'll like go upstairs and be like, oh, it's cold. Yeah, okay. I need to like turn the heat up

Starting point is 02:35:58 because they're literally just- Because they also micromanage their thermostats and if they're not at home, they turn it off. Yeah. That's awesome. It's weird, but yeah. I'm really really happy with it but i haven't had a leak so if i did i'd probably be less happy with it they are rare though because the tubes are encased in concrete so you know technically nothing should go wrong but you never know

Starting point is 02:36:20 hey linus luke and dan wasn't there a plan to sell cables that were tested by you guys is that the still plan or a dead project uh we are planning to develop cables and we will test a lot of cables and make sure our cables are the awesome cables i'm not going to say they're the best because there's lots of great cables out there and we're not going to try to pretend that we have a magic cable that's better than any other cable on the market but ours will be very very good with that said we have definitely fallen behind on our original plan for the cable tester which was to produce content with it like every quarter or so and just like test lots of hdmi cables and lots of usb cables and lots of display port cables sorry hello lld long time listener first time caller

Starting point is 02:37:12 have you heard that due to changes in google's policy google assistant will no longer be available on samsung tvs what's your take on that oh no no no. No, I haven't heard of that, but I actually... Trying to think what I would... Do you not have phones? Tizen OS deserves to die anyway. No functionality that was included with the device when you researched it and paid for it should be taken away that but otherwise i um i don't see this as something that would be a great loss for

Starting point is 02:37:53 me personally how long does it take to make the average clothing item everything i've gotten has been great quality and i keep coming back oh my god i just killed one that's been in development for over a year yesterday oh uh i haven't actually told the team it's dead yet oh they know whose mom you're talking about they haven't seen her in a while. Oh, no, Linus. Anyway, yeah. Well, this is like... How about I talk about something that isn't canceled? How about these pants?

Starting point is 02:38:38 Sure. These are cargo pants. They're really great. I really like them they have a pocket for the galaxy um z fold three that i owe dan and is hopefully charged so that i can uh wipe it and give it to him today i put it in here so i wouldn't forget and i totally forgot about it until i realized it was time to demo pants don't put it back in your pocket too many pockets um yeah yeah they really are quite cargoey uh they're really expensive i think we might tone down some of the pockets a little demo pants don't put it back in your pocket too many pockets um yeah yeah they really are quite

Starting point is 02:39:05 cargoey uh they're really expensive i think we might tone down some of the pockets a little bit to get them to a price that is somewhat reasonable and then maybe we could bring back this version as like a cargo pants pro at some point these have been in development for over a year um you know our bathing suit launched in like fall or something like that because, because it was like, yeah, yeah. Uh, yeah, we do have a bit of that.

Starting point is 02:39:27 Yeah. It's a, it's a whole thing. Uh, I mean the screwdriver is three years. The precision driver has been probably about a year. I, um,

Starting point is 02:39:37 even the fail pin, the one that's just made of like failed screwdriver shafts, I think has been at least six months and it's not done yet so good good product design and development takes some time the thermal pad all we did was design a way to cut it up and put it in a box and that took a year and a half there's a lot of steps though sourcing it communication steps honeywell doesn't pick up the phone for ltt yeah i'm sorry who are you a government no oh how did you get this number? You know what?

Starting point is 02:40:06 It doesn't matter. Like it's irrelevant. Are you a government? Oh, uh, Nope. I don't have a source for this. Let me go try to find that.

Starting point is 02:40:18 Before I say things. There's a first. You can hit me with another one in the meantime, though, Dan. Sure, sure, sure, sure. Is there any old software or hardware that's been long forgotten? For example, PhysX, that you'd like to see come back again. I would like to see a game developed with physics as a, like, like a multiplayer shooter game with physics as a core part of the

Starting point is 02:40:48 gameplay, as opposed to just kind of for show. Um, I know it's been done a couple of times in the past, but I feel like there's room to innovate there. I keep installing the driver. Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:41:01 Every single, yeah. If I'm going to have it, we might as well, uh, you know, might as well use it. Hey, by the way, there is no source for the thing i was going to say so i i will not say it this is not it i already stopped searching for it oh but that's it hey dll what do you think of

Starting point is 02:41:16 software companies still having bugs in their code related to the leap year our company was stuck with the citrix solution to disable the time service and set the date to March the 1st. It's kind of funny. Yeah, it's pretty funny. Y2K! Oh no! Let's leap here. I know. It's just funny when software has bugs caused by the date. The date is surprisingly annoying to deal with.

Starting point is 02:41:41 Didn't we develop Linux time to actually deal with this? It's still annoying. I know. It's still annoying. I could could not imagine this is one of the reasons i'm not a programmer it's just time yeah um it's just time it's just time to stop uh please ask the talent i think that's you guys what they think about jensen saying don't learn coding just for NVIDIA to announce a coding LLM the next day? Yeah, it's a marketing thing. Obviously, he just wanted the headlines. You do still need to learn coding to use a coding LLM. Well, so there's a lot of arguments here.

Starting point is 02:42:20 There's been some arguments made by people much smarter than me. I think it was John Carmack talking about how, like, of arguments here there's been some arguments made by people much smarter than me um i think it was john carmack um talking about how like while jensen you know might not be completely correct and it might not be his tool llms or not there's been this like ever marching path of abstraction and simplification in software development which does make sense so it would make sense even if llm ai stuff never came to be that you would eventually be able to code through close to natural language at least for very simple things um but advanced stuff like oh man i really don't see that being completely done by AI for a long time.

Starting point is 02:43:05 And a lot of the core competencies of software developers is deep, difficult problem solving and solution finding, which just at its root is a skill that could be applied to a lot of other things. Something that I've found to be kind of interesting is to watch people's career pass watch software developers career pass after they get laid off which has been a major thing lately and we've seen what is it like layoff.fyi you can see the like tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of people getting laid off um and they tend to be i accidentally screwed up a reply yes i believe we are restocking the keyboard pins but i'm not 100 sure they tend to be... I accidentally screwed up a reply. Yes, I believe we are restocking the keyboard pins,

Starting point is 02:43:46 but I'm not 100% sure. They tend to be very successful because the skills of deep, deep problem solving and solution finding are applicable to a huge amount of things. It's like when I took physics in high school, I thought it was one of the best courses I ever took, not because of physics, but because of the problem solving and task breakdown and how to learn

Starting point is 02:44:12 basically that, that teacher by using physics taught me. Um, so yeah, I don't know. Um, here's another one for Luke while I was just, just some potentials hey luke bread and 2019

Starting point is 02:44:29 linus best tips for traveling the work uh traveling for work and living out of a hotel what are some of your top stories from conferences or events thanks i don't have a ton of tips for the first thing other than i i very much prefer to travel as light as humanly possible uh when we booked our our uh stay in japan uh i think about half of the places we're staying have laundry so our plan is to take as little clothing as possible i can't believe laundry is not a thing in north america at hotels it drives me absolutely crazy it's just common sense i'm going for two weeks so i have to bring 15 shirts. Like, this is ridiculous.

Starting point is 02:45:06 I would be very careful because, like, the place that we stayed in Taiwan, for example. Airbnb. Okay. Okay. Cool. I'm more talking to them, though. Oh, sure. It's quite common that if your hotel has laundry in it, that will be insanely expensive.

Starting point is 02:45:24 Oh. But it's like five dollars to do a single shirt um and it doesn't go down no no that's not what i'm talking about no no in asia you can stay at places where like it's it's two bucks and they have like a washing machine a dryer it's awesome this was in taiwan that's in asia i'm just saying the place i stayed in taiwan was amazing for that you stayed at the same place as me. No, I didn't. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:45:48 The last time we were in Taiwan, we were in the same hotel. When was the last time we were in Taiwan? Computex. Like just this most recent one? Yeah. Okay. That's not what I'm talking about. I didn't use their laundry service. My point is-

Starting point is 02:45:55 That's like the Western one. You can just Google Maps. They'll wash a shirt for five bucks. You can just Google Maps because I did this. I used a laundromat down the street. Sure. This is my whole point. It was like $2. Okay. Well, the place i stayed four years ago i guess for everything at computex

Starting point is 02:46:09 on every floor had a laundry room oh sweet and it was like two bucks yeah and you just like use the washing machine it was amazing it was the best thing ever and i was like everything should have this why do they have an ice machine but no laundry machine how often do i need ice how often do i need clothes let's go and if it's if it's in the hotel and it's like that and it's nice and cheap that's like wicked if it's not there's probably a laundromat and you're probably not uh you know making your own food anyways because you're on the road so go drop your stuff off go get some food go, go pick it up. You're done. Yep. 100%. It's great.

Starting point is 02:46:46 Easy. Super cheap. Super easy. Overpacking is like the worst noob move. Yep. Don't overpack. As for stories, I think my favorite story is probably from Japan. That time that we did the WAN show from the hotel room and Ed was pass out drunk behind

Starting point is 02:47:02 the camera. Like, like could could like was actually just lying there throughout the duration of the show he was trying to hold the legs of the camera which i think was for like his own stability more than the cameras that play but he's like his arms are over here and he's completely leaned over it was awesome that way it shows great you can look it up not a replaced background by the way this is this is the actual land can you man remember when man show was 48 minutes i think that was just so that we could go check on ed though make sure he wasn't dead yeah i think i think the worst part was when we filmed the video too right yeah we filmed it because that was the land show but

Starting point is 02:47:55 we filmed a video in in one of the rooms yep yeah that was the whole thing pretty epic we used to go pretty hard dude i don't think i could do it anymore not like yeah that trip was rough yeah i really like that trip but it was rough it was rough i i can't i've i've like tried it a few times um i can in one shot and then i need the recovery time like immediately yeah back then i just i don't know whatever forever i'll do it for a year who cares more than that but now yeah like if i stay up too late the next day i'm like oh yeah that too hello lena and lucy we'll be going on a trip to japan soon and need some new clothes to pack linus i remember you said you were planning a trip to japan what and need some new clothes to pack linus i remember you said you were planning

Starting point is 02:48:45 a trip to japan what are you most excited to see or do there everyone is going to japan right now there's at least four people internally that are like going to japan or just came back from japan it's it's ridiculous um great i think they opened up later than most other countries after covid they had completely shut off vacation travel. That makes sense. I'm looking forward to seeing my children's happy faces. They really wanted to go. Pretty much everything we're doing is mostly kid-oriented.

Starting point is 02:49:16 So I hope they have a really, really good time. And I have lots of good stories about it once I get back. Yeah. Should I get my eight and nine year old their own computers or just get one and do virtual machines they are homeschooled and like video games virtual machines it's an interesting idea yeah it's so okay do it if you're looking for a fun project and you are fully anticipating building the second computer later anyway yeah that's a good one because it's clearly an option it's one of the options you're

Starting point is 02:49:53 weighing would would you what would you think about just getting the one and then making them learn to share it i think that's actually solid yeah or just don't do either of those things and have one computer and be like, you need to share. Yeah. I still remember, uh, we had, we had a 30 minute cycle.

Starting point is 02:50:12 So like if, if it was my turn on the computer, I have 30 minutes and then it would be my brother's turn on the computer. And I remember my brother and I going to my mom to try to negotiate, like we want bigger play windows because there's things that we like can't do in that time like certain games like it's you just can't play it within that time window and i remember her being like i don't care this is set up so that like you won't fight each other and we were like oh okay sounds good um yeah i don't know two computers is a lot of money they're like eight i don't know make them share it

Starting point is 02:50:56 hi wanda dll for luke do you think the lmg is still small and nimble enough to adjust and stay relevant. P.S. Thanks for including models' clothing sizes on the store. I am a small company enjoyer. What? Are you trying to mock me for being big? What? No. What is that? Being like, come at me, we got this. Oh, yeah.

Starting point is 02:51:24 In regards to staying relevant, no, I'm not concerned about that. I think, like, dude, the Kyle video was amazing. It actually, it's like really long and I didn't realize that I actually watched the whole thing.

Starting point is 02:51:41 Yeah, I'm going to right now. This one, the ultimate upgrade took two years. To be be fair i didn't watch it on youtube i watched on flow plane but that's a killer video the potato pc video is hilarious watching david at one point in time he like i don't know spider-man crab like shuffles towards something to talk about it and then like shuffles away i burst out laughing like I yeah I don't know I'm not worried about relevance I think we have better

Starting point is 02:52:07 a better team than ever yeah I think we have the quality of the videos right now is insane an endless bucket of ideas yep I think

Starting point is 02:52:17 he made he made on the potato PC he made a mouse pad out of hash browns like come on it's a come on are you not entertained no i don't think relevancy is an issue i think we will be able to keep releasing and this is someone who's not even on that team um i i think we'll be able to keep releasing fantastic content

Starting point is 02:52:41 um we are constantly taking criticism about the direction of our content or how out of touch we are we've been being told we're out of ideas since the house yeah we're not out of ideas we're never going to be out of ideas uh there's a an endless wellspring of ideas i i got into this with uh someone on reddit a little while ago i went looky look you've got my attention tell me which content pieces and i think i said in the last uh yeah out of the last 21 because i was i was trying to pick like an arbitrary because they said recently the content has been trash and i said okay okay and there will be some tips but that's like no no no no no there weren't oh i said which ones

Starting point is 02:53:22 were trash tell me specifically like what about them was trash and they kind of come back with this sort of vague posty thing about how we used to be cool and now we're not and i'm like okay you gotta actually hit me with something and they attacked me for the arbitrary 21 day or 21 video time frame and i was like okay how about this let's make it not arbitrary let's make it 28 videos. That's everything we've uploaded since CES. What was trash? And they were just like,

Starting point is 02:53:51 and I kind of, they came up with like nothing. And at some point I'm like, okay, what it sounds like to me is that you are criticizing the content, but you are not watching it. So how can you possibly say that recently anything when you haven't watched the video? So I'll tell you what, why don't you respond then

Starting point is 02:54:09 once you've actually opened up your mind to enjoying it and watched something, and then we can discuss what about it was trash. But this is your opportunity to fix it. If you really care, you have my undivided attention right now tell me what the problem is and there just wasn't really one um super common yeah it and it happens it happens all the time where people say something like you guys are always making videos about stuff that's too expensive no one can afford anything you're talking about and i'll just i'll

Starting point is 02:54:45 break it down for them i'll go through okay here's the last month of videos yeah we had you know the world's biggest tv um and then we had the one that thread very fast oh wow i'm impressed that was crazy uh it was oh is it float plane chat Okay. No, no, he found it like immediately. Oh, that makes sense. Yeah. So I basically, I basically said, now that it's not an arbitrary timeframe, can you point me to the trash that is geared toward the lowest common denominator? And that's, that's something I see a lot. I see people talking about how our content is for dummies.

Starting point is 02:55:27 It's for people who don't properly appreciate tech. Maybe I'm stupid because I like Potato PC, but I still like Potato PC, okay? So I go on to say, let's say I was pretending that our videos really do have a lot of good educational nuggets and you were going to prove to me that I'm wrong and that i'm a leader who is simply focused on profits which videos would you use to demonstrate that i don't even disagree that some videos skew toward entertainment more but if you're calling them trash it's clear you've watched them and have strong feelings about them

Starting point is 02:55:57 i'm just asking for that specific feedback or as i suggested before it's possible you haven't watched them if that's the case why did you type your original critique of our content are you even open to trying it and enjoying it yeah and that was where the back and forth that had actually gone back and forth and forth and back and forth and forth and forth like eight times or something like that um finally died off finally just died they just gave up they're like okay well you got me and i didn't watch i actually had no idea what i was talking about i think it's pretty common that like if someone's tastes change now they're now deciding the thing that they used to like now sucks even if that thing really didn't change much um sometimes that thing does change and sometimes we diverge but not always sometimes it diverges that's okay no relationship lasts

Starting point is 02:56:44 forever at some point you know you change or someone dies or you know whatever you might even maybe you were inspired to get into tech by watching fun uh like entertainment kind of focused ltd style content and then now you're like a tech professional and you work in the it field and you're more interested in like Linux focused infrastructure videos and stuff like that and you don't want to watch a particular model of network switch you know what we're never going to get to that kind of depth but that doesn't mean that

Starting point is 02:57:13 this content is now bad it just means you're looking for other stuff which is fine. It also doesn't mean that there isn't a lot to still learn from us it could be about something else you probably know more about something else but the writers work hard. The labs team works hard. Every video has something to learn in it.

Starting point is 02:57:31 We really do go out of our way to make sure that that's the case. And sometimes you'll have already learned everything that's in a particular video and that's totally fine. But to say it's trash or it's purely for entertainment, I think is more of an

Starting point is 02:57:46 indictment of you than it is of us and i think the effort level is so high just to bring it back to the potato pc again yeah the amount of steps taken to like i mean conformal coding yeah we talked about you might not have even known that conformal coding was a thing. It's not a normal thing that comes up in people's lives. And you might have. Maybe. But I guarantee you a lot of the people who watched that video weren't familiar with it. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:58:16 So I don't know. And then on to the company stuff, I am a small company preferrer. And I think my, my alarm bells go off quickly because of that. Um, but I think a lot of the steps that have been taken lately, even if they are kind of more corporatey have been really good. So we still care. I don't know.

Starting point is 02:58:39 I know. It's hard to believe, right? I am small company person, but I'm only gonna, I'm gonna try to only complain if the complaint is valid, and I don't have valid complaints about the changes that have been happening.

Starting point is 02:58:48 The changes that have been happening have been good. So I'm happy. I think trajectory is good. I don't think ideas are going down. I think the writing team has been doing a fantastic job. I think videos are doing great. I don't know. I genuinely loved the Potato PC video. Genuinely loved Kyle's upgrade. I don't know i genuinely loved the potato pc video genuinely loved kyle's upgrade

Starting point is 02:59:07 i don't watch everything so i haven't seen a bunch of the other things i don't know i mean i can tell you guys my favorites i i watch every video now um so i'm the i'm the final qc pass um and it's uh it's a qp qp sass uh it's a it's a QC pass for kind of everything, but I'm particularly focused on, you know, making sure the content's really good. This one's really solid. This one's great. The All China PC is a great video.

Starting point is 02:59:38 Oh, I am subscribed to our members-only content, so I guess we're going to have to wade through that a little bit. This is S tier. I had a ton of fun with Kyleyle and elijah and it's so watchable leonie uh it's an incredibly watchable video i i'm very proud of some of my some of my uh my moves like it's one of those things where am i tired sometimes yeah i'm old um compared to when we started doing this i'm i'm 11 years older than when we started this company. And it's, you know, it hits you at some point. Yeah, we both got grays now.

Starting point is 03:00:11 But I'm also experienced. Like some of the comments from people on that video were things you can actually, you can actually see on my face the moment when I think of the idea of doing that transition to upstairs and leaving kyle and elijah arguing in the background and elijah walks in to help me you can actually watch me go and then i run out of frame so that we can do that transition um like i i've been doing this a long time and I'm still having fun, I guess is what I'm, I guess is what I'm trying to say about that. Uh,

Starting point is 03:00:50 the gaming, the potatoes just, I mean, this is going to be one of those ones. Yeah. 1.2 million today. Um, we built a gaming PC and a potato.

Starting point is 03:00:59 This one's great. Uh, this one's a little dry, uh, but was super interesting for me the flanders scientific mastering display um fair phone review i was definitely right there's uh oh my goodness i can't believe we didn't get that on the doc this week i didn't even think of it the response yeah they they responded um and basically made themselves they, they had an opportunity to,

Starting point is 03:01:25 um, to take feedback and make the phone better. And they, they went and Linus did up. Oh, that's a good quote. All right. Hit me,

Starting point is 03:01:42 Dan. Okay. Oh, I'm still, I'm still recovering from that. Yeah. Is that a verb? Are you a noun now? Oh, man, you're the linest.

Starting point is 03:01:54 You're going to jail. Hi. That's the one we just did. Sorry. I recently had my keyboard die on me. It had a USB slot in it for my fingerprint sensor. It's so hard to find a good keyboard with USB pass-through. Any idea why it's not more common?

Starting point is 03:02:12 Love the show. If I had to guess, I would just say it's because front USB and monitor USB hubs are so commonplace and docks and everything are so cheap now. Why would you need that feature? Also, in order to do pass-through, you would either need to have a secondary plug, like many of the old ones did,

Starting point is 03:02:29 or you would need to have an integrated hub and you'd have to have a low enough power budget for the rest of the keyboard that you would have enough left over to power a secondary device. And a lot of modern keyboards that are expensive enough to have extra frills are gonna have backlights on them and stuff these days.

Starting point is 03:02:46 So I just wouldn't expect that to be as common. I need to pick up like a used G710 plus. I'm still partial to it. What are those going for on eBay? Can't be too much these days. Can't be too much. Seriously? There you go. $33 buy it now and just pop all the keys off and wash them and you're good yeah pop all the keys off wash the board wash the keys if you're in the state so i mean here

Starting point is 03:03:20 in canada i'm gonna pay like 65 bucks oh yeah and this one definitely has passed through it's usb2 pass-through it's nothing special but canada's has it gross yeah it's a whole thing any updates on the khaki work pants i have been in the need for some and i've been holding off buying some to see when they will be released oh no i do not have any updates to share at this time I've got a question for Luke everybody who works at CW turn off the computer

Starting point is 03:03:56 hey Luke are we going to get a native floatplane app for Apple Vision Pro it just started exploding I don't know if you guys can hear that oh thank goodness okay Vance already told the team that that they're dead okay those pants are dead um i can i can talk a little bit about why uh we're gonna alter the way that we we we've done nine samples of that product oh that product has been in development for probably a year and a half or two

Starting point is 03:04:26 years or something like that. I can't remember how long it's, it's, it's been in development for an obscene amount of time. And we've had pants are hard for starters. The cargo pants are going really well, but that's not a guarantee for other pants, everything from materials to pockets to fit,

Starting point is 03:04:43 blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Pants are really, really, really hard compared to shirts. And everything that can go wrong with those has. We've seen everything from pockets that kind of flare out so they look like vaginas on your thighs to like, and with zippers in them.

Starting point is 03:04:58 So ones that bite. Oh, self-defense. The best kind. To just like general tightness to, man, I don't know. Just, oh, oh, okay, something that personally I think the world needs a lot less of is men's hairy bum cracks hanging out. And since so many people I know refuse to wear a belt, I insisted that when sitting, our pants need to not just show you know

Starting point is 03:05:28 more than you know half an inch of crack kind of thing like i like we've got a hole but but we're not making high-waisted you know pants or whatever so there's just there's so many things that i'm really picky about that have been very difficult to achieve with uh with a work appropriate you know khaki pants garment um and what we realized was doing all of these samples and everything for for fit and we realized earlier this week that no one had ever actually worn them for an entire day because we'd never had them close enough for our previous standard for wear testing so i kind of went okay well these kind of suck for a number of reasons but um there are probably other reasons and if we're going to do nine more samples then now is probably the time to unless we want to do nine more samples

Starting point is 03:06:16 now is probably the time to wear them for a day and find out that the angle of the pockets okay we fixed the flaring out thing but they're annoying they're i i almost cut my hand open trying to get into them and if they weren't zippered everything would fall out and this pocket that we had on the knee was kind of useless like the idea behind these pants was they looked like normal slacks that you could wear to the office but they had like hidden pockets and stuff so you could carry a bunch of stuff that you need but in order to make them remotely wearable it was just it was a mess nothing was really that easy to get at and they ended up looking really weird and bulgy whenever you had anything in the pockets because

Starting point is 03:06:58 they had more of like a formal fit uh someday maybe someday maybe we resurrect them let's see the cargo pants be a huge success they're great everyone who's wear testing these freaking loves them so no problem we're full steam ahead on the cargo pants but the khaki ones are they're down and out like i didn't even realize that i'd forgotten to make sure there was an AirPods pocket included until I wore them all day and I went to like transfer all my stuff and then holy crap, I forgot an AirPods pocket. And like, just, it's so, it's so easy to miss little details unless you actually live with the products every day.

Starting point is 03:07:37 I mean, people will kind of joke with me about how I, you know, we'll only show LTT store products, but it's, it's not about that, obviously. Yeah, I want to promote the products. This is a great hoodie, by the way. I really like the dropout stuff. I had to Spider-Man meme three separate people today who were wearing the same hoodie today because it's just awesome.

Starting point is 03:07:58 Anyway, it's not just that. Obviously, I want to promote the product, but I also want to live with the product. I want to be stuck with the product so that when there's a problem i'm going to be the first one to find it because i've done more wash cycles with it than you have um yeah this is a great hoodie by the way lttstore.com do they come into all yet no let's do it all right the question was oh yeah sorry hey luke uh are we going to get a native floatplane app for the apple vision pro hold on i got this

Starting point is 03:08:29 yes if you make it i was gonna say never say never but no yeah it was extremely unlikely um yeah hi dll i'm 19 and work as a remote tech for asurion i repair 8 to 13 phones a day what would you say is the next progression for my career path what should i look into learning entrepreneurship oh yeah yeah to be honest if you can fix a fold then you can get a free fold all right i'm wiping it now it's yours this is this is not business this is not investment advice you can't just keep your clients phones when you fix them no but seriously yeah it is probably entrepreneurship you go on craigslist and do like phone repair from your bedroom and you make a lot of money uh work on apple products um

Starting point is 03:09:37 their their users are uh apple users and apple charges also a lot for repairs uh apple users and apple charges also a lot for repairs yeah yeah you might the only other really good career paths i think in that realm are going to be only tangentially related getting into board design doing things like that but that's like electrical engineering stuff but i'm just the only reason why electronics engineering sure my bad my mixed doubles partner would have a word with you yeah i remember this conversation um sorry electronics engineering uh but that's i mean that's just the only reason why i'm even saying that is because you're probably at least somewhat interested in that due to the career that you're in not because they're necessarily even all that related so i don't know but enhance your abilities if you learned more. For sure. You'd probably be on a leg up compared to other students in those classes as well.

Starting point is 03:10:27 But yeah. All right. She's wiped. Well, I think that's the bare minimum. She's wiped like a butt of someone who hasn't bought a swipe bidet from lttstore.com yet. Hey. Disgusting. It's like animals.

Starting point is 03:10:48 Can you imagine? It's like the three seashells toilet paper yuck all right good chat see you again next week same bad time same bad channel bye it's time for they're just movies are they here i have no idea they're coming back from abbotsford oh Oh, wow. Why they went there, I don't know. Cargo Kilt. I think it's the premium theater. Oh, okay.

Starting point is 03:11:13 How come they get one? Is there anything? Abbotsford has premium things? When did Abbotsford get, like, you know, to be a city? Manscaped. The Ridge.

Starting point is 03:11:21 Symbolic software.

The WAN Show - Linux Sucks... And We Know Who To Blame - WAN Show March 1, 2024

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