The WAN Show - Looks Like NVIDIA Lied.... - WAN Show Jun 18, 2021

Episode Date: June 21, 2021

Check out the EPOS B20 Streaming Microphone at https://lmg.gg/B20LTT Try Pulseway for free and start remotely monitoring and managing your server or PC at https://geni.us/pulseway  Save 10% at Ridge Wallet with offer code WAN at https://www.ridge.com/WAN  Check out our other Podcasts: Carpool Critics Movie Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCt-oJR5teQIjOAxCmIQvcgA Timestamps (Courtesy of Luke Carapezza) 0:00 Introducing Topics 1:45 - Roll Intro 2:13 - Sponsors 2:39 Oculus delivering ads straight to your brain in VR (Topic 1)     - 04:57 Logistics of boiling frogs || (8:11 - frog logistics incorrect, according to FP chat)     - 10:51 Quest 2 is an unbelievably good value (because they subsidize the cost with ads)     - 16:30 Facebook has now broken every one of the promises made during Oculus acquisition     - 17:05 Amazon Reviews & VR = niche product debate 21:05 Founder's Edition RTX 3070 TI (Topic 2)     - 22:10 Scalpers say the card was never available     - 24:10 What is NVidia playing at?     - 28:00 NVidia playing both sides     - 33:00 Only 11 cards accounted for so far     - 33:45 NVidia prioritizing mobile GPUs (because they make more money from them)     - 35:20 Synopsis of issue - NVidia "having their cake & eating it too" 39:20 Starlink Overheating (Topic 3)     - 41:55 Buying recreational property (and off-grid internet access)     - 45:05 Mobile device operating temperatures     - 48:20 Tesla revising cars—disabling features & the cost of maintenance 1:02:22 Sponsors     - 1:02:27 Epos     - 1:03:04 Pulseway     - 1:03:58 Ridgewallet 1:04:58 Windows 11 (Topic 4)     - 1:06:29 Daily driving linux     - 1:10:20 Floatplane News - Canada approves!     - 1:13:47 Bill C-10 1:15:55 NVidia moving Win 7/8 to EOL (Topic 5) 1:18:15 Tim Cook says sidelaoding is bad (Topic 5.5) 1:18:50 lttstore.com news!     - 1:19:55 Alpaca wool to the moon (Linus cuts a check for $250k)     - 1:24:10 Noctua: they don't f*** around (& the mentality of doing things right) 1:30:26 Superchats     - Model 3 structural changes - are all of them crash tested?     - "Linux is free if your time is worthless"     - Floatplane download limited to Australia (and Floatplane infrastructure in general)     - "You need a car person to do the car reveiws"     - "Tall sizes for shirts and hoodies when?"     - Large CPU pillows are a novelty, you should only buy them for that purpose.     - Back to tall clothing 1:40:20 Closing     - One more superchat (Luke tried to build a 3d body profile kinect tool 10 years ago) 1:41:25 Outro 1:42:39 LTTStore leak Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

You know what's great about ambition? You can't see it. Some things look ambitious, but looks can be deceiving. For example, a runner could be training for a marathon, or they could be late for the bus. You never know. Ambition is on the inside. So that goal to beat your personal best? Keep chasing it. Drive your ambition mitsubishi motors welcome to the wan show ladies and gentlemen we've got a fantastic show for you guys today the big topic is of course that it looks like nvidia may not have actually even launched the founders edition rtx 3070 Ti. That's right. All the controversy that that card managed to generate appears to be much ado about quite literally nothing. Nothing.

We're going to get into that a little bit later. Windows 11 obviously leaked this week. I did get a chance to try it and a lot more information has come out about it over the course of the week because i am far from the only one who has gotten a chance to try it and what else we got this week luke facebook or or oculus or whatever is going to be advertising to you in vr just like we all knew that they would no no no yeah we all we all knew they would uh they sort of at a few points in time said that they wouldn't and then they kind of pull back on that and then here we

are um also where to go wait can we talk about during that topic can we talk about how literally every promise facebook made at the acquisition is now dead? Just gone. I'd love that. Okay, go ahead. Yeah. I wish we had notes on it because it'd be actually interesting to go through all of them. But also, Starlink dishes are melting in the sun.

Not quite, but they are actually overheating and shutting down to the point where people are spraying them with water and then they stick back in. It's a little awkward. It's in. It's a little awkward. It's amazing. It's a little awkward. Yeah. All right, let's roll that intro. all right i'm kind of tempted to do something unpopular here luke i'm kind of tempted to start with not the headline topic uh the show is brought to you by epos, Pulseway, and Ridge Wallets.

Ray, what do you want to start with? Why not the main line? Okay. Is that not just your rule? Are you going to go against your own rule? I know, but Mystic Incarnate in the float plane chat said, pay a crap load for the headset and get ads. GG.

I actually want to go right into the faceboculus uh topic faceboculus that's what i'm calling them now faceboculus um i like it okay so we're going to do that first then we'll talk about the nvidia thing so let's get through what's going on here facebook is starting to insert ads into the v apps in the Oculus Quest ecosystem. Ecosystem. Excuse me. In the Oculus Quest ecosystem, starting off with resolution games blast on. So we've got a picture of an in-game ad courtesy of The Verge.

Oh, my. It's glorious. Fast free delivery from jasper's market thank you very much please stop it looks almost like shake it looks like they have an arena game and they're just trying to like emulate those signs that you see on the inside of like hockey arenas i know right turns out jasper's market is not actually even a thing. That's the assumption I would make looking at that. But then you can actually click on it. So it's currently a test. It may not be permanent.

Sorry. Yeah, guys, don't worry about it. They're totally going to take it out. It's fine. Yeah. If you respond negatively enough, they'll totally remove this from our list. So this is based on a quote from a facebook blog post once we see how this test goes and incorporate feedback from developers and the community

we'll provide more details on when ads may become more broadly available across the oculus platform and in the oculus mobile app so um none of that is probably they just they just want to make sure that it's effective enough to to bother push forward look facebook knows a thing or two about boiling the frog i mean they've been boiling the whatsapp frog for how when did they when did they acquire whatsapp facebook acquisition That was in 2014. They announced the plan to acquire WhatsApp. They play such a long game these days. That was seven years ago, and it was only recently that they finally started the whole data sharing thing between Facebook and WhatsApp and all of that good stuff

that makes us so happy. So, you know, actually, I just realized, I just used the term boiling the frog, but not everyone might necessarily be familiar with that. Oh, interesting. Yeah, so frogs will like flip out if you just put them in boiling water, like to cook them or whatever.

But if you put them in cool water and then just like gradually increase it, they're cold-blooded and stuff and so they they will not notice and then they will just like die uh and not freak out about it um so what i mean is to say that facebook is slowly turning up the heat in hopes that we won't notice they normalize the boiling okay so let's talk about this. You can save an ad for viewing later if you're interested in the product, or you can hide it and also block certain apps and ads entirely by clicking on the AR right button in VR. Which is rather standard these days and

actually just helps them learn what ads are going to work on you more than anything else, to be very clear. Facebook made it clear that they're only using limited data from Oculus and some from your Facebook profile to target the ads. The limited data from Oculus includes whether you've viewed content, installed, activated, or subscribed to an Oculus app, added an app to your cart or wish list if you've initiated a checkout or purchased an app on the Oculus platform, and lastly, whether you've viewed, hovered, saved, or clicked on an ad within a third-party app. I mean, that sounds... Yeah, they should be able to target it, okay?

A Facebook spokesperson made a statement that Facebook's roadmap is open-ended. And they don't yet know if you may see ads inside your Oculus Home experience. So one of the driving ideas behind this is to help sustain apps long term after initial purchase particularly ones with online services and also to help make more affordable headsets such as the quest 2 the vp of facebook reality labs made a tweet regarding this and it went exactly as well as you would expect it should we are starting off with a small test of in headset ads up and up but no 284 people like that how many people work at oculus hold on a second here hold on a sec how many people work in the oculus division uh facebook has nearly 10 000 employees in its

division working on augmented reality. Wow. They couldn't even get all the people working on Oculus to like this tweet. That is extremely unfortunate. It sure has a lot of quote tweets and retweets, though. It sure does have that. I think, is this one of those ones where they got, what's the term for it? Did they get ratioed? Did they get ratioed? Yeah.

Is that a great? One of the actually many ratios on this is I'm bombarded with ads every day, wherever I go, whatever I look at. When I put my headset on, which is my escape, I don't want to see them in there. I would rather pay more for games and experiences to be ad-free in VR. Yarp. So let me talk about that let me talk about that because the reason we jumped into this topic earlier on rather than doing our headline topic first was because of that um oh kitty kitty says the boiling

frog thing is not true but i guess it's an okay metaphor. Hey, all right. Thank you very much. Thank you for playing chat. The meaning behind it is still true. That is what the expression means. So back to that original topic. I forget who posted it anymore. I'm so sorry about that. But you actually can buy an Oculus Quest without ads. And that does not require a Facebook account.

Let me just see if I can bring it up here. Ah, yes, here it is. So Oculus Business actually makes a nearly identical, as far as I can tell, it's the same thing. They make a nearly identical product to the Quest 2. Here it is, Oculus Quest 2, with the only difference being the apps that you can install, which my understanding is kind of sucks

because I think it doesn't work with games and stuff. I'd have to explore that a little bit more. This is a product we actually kind of wanted to do a review of because it's very interesting to us. You guys can correct me if I'm wrong because I have not done the work yet. Longer warranty, enterprise customer support, device setup app, Android device manager, and look at that, a much higher price. So it costs about double the regular consumer Quest 2. That means that you can officially put a price tag right on the data

that facebook is maybe not yet but planning to harvest from you thanks to your oculus quest 2 headset sort of because like okay so oculus home notwithstanding because they're they're saying as of right now that they're stop they're saying as of right now that they're not sure if there will be ads in Oculus Home or not, but everything is in individual apps. And it was answered by the tweet that it is up to, it is definitely up to the developer

of the game or app if there is going to be ads in there or not. So you can just not buy a game if you don't want an ad in the game. For now. True. Fair. I mean, i think that'll probably stay has there ever been a platform that has inserted ads in content that you bought on that platform um i don't know i can't think of any that would be pretty ham-fisted wouldn't put it past them no me neither that would be pretty ham-fisted so here we go um so mr cow 656 and float plane

chat says valve should make a headset that doesn't cost a thousand us dollars and ambler says you got to love how spending a few hundred on a device doesn't earn you the privilege of not seeing adverts, but spending another few hundred and lockdown software, sure. No, but for real, that is what's happening here. The Quest 2 is an unbelievable value. Incredibly cheap.

Our original video on it was sponsored. I can tell you right now, I am not sponsored at all in any way. We have absolutely no dealings with Facebook or any of their subsidiaries. It's a spectacular value. Everything I said in that video was true. Sponsored video, yeah, but I said right at the beginning of the video, we only took the money because they agreed that we could say whatever we wanted. I was like, okay, sure. I mean, I might as well get paid if I get to just make whatever video I want anyway. And that's not an accident.

That's not a fluke. It's not weird in any way that the Oculus Quest 2 is priced so much better than any competing headset. We're at the point now where there almost isn't a competing headset. The Index does offer a better experience. I am not planning to switch out my Index. The audio quality, outstanding compared to what the Quest 2 offers. The controllers, I like them better personally. And of course, 144 hertz experimental. Absolutely love that. But the reason it costs so much more is because Facebook is aggressively, aggressively subsidizing the Quest 2 with all the data that it is planning to collect

and utilize over the next five, six, however many years that you use that device. That is the only real difference here is that for the first time ever, we can finally see it because Facebook hasn't really had any other successful hardware products that I'm aware of. I mean, they had the portal. They had that weird phone thing, but none of that's really gone anywhere. aware of. I mean, they had the portal. They had that weird phone thing, but none of that's really gone anywhere. So this is the first time we've been able to say, oh, that's the price tag. That's how much the data is worth. And Facebook's playing an extremely long game here. I mean,

when they acquired Oculus, this was the game plan. I pretty much guarantee it. Lizard people don't make mistakes. Okay. The game plan was they were going to absolutely own the consumer VR space and they were going to subsidize the crap out of it. So nobody else could compete. I mean, HTC, they, they completely took over the consumer VR space before PSVR and the original Oculus Rift finally arrived. They were it. They were the only game in town. Now they've been completely pushed out.

They do some professional stuff, but they're not even trying to compete in the consumer space anymore because they know they can't do it. It just costs way too much to bring a product like that to market. I mean, think about it. Snap-on, we were talking about this in the pre-show. Snap-on wants 200 us dollars for a ratcheting screwdriver with a soft grip handle on it and a shaft extender like imagine if snap-on made a vr headset the amount of the amount of technology the amount of

research and development cost that goes into creating a product like that. It's unbelievable. And not just that, but the entire software ecosystem to support it. So yeah, it's happening, but we're also allowing it to happen. People have said, okay, that $300 to $400 that my data is worth, I would rather give up my data and have a cheaper VR headset. And I actually had this conversation with someone on Saturday. On Saturday, we went out on a boat, open, open air vessel. And actually, we've all had our first shots, at least. Anyway, point is, we went out on a boat with the parents of one of my kids classmates. And they, you know, happened it was that was only after we made it out on the boat that they were like, Oh, yeah, by the way, I watch your videos. I'm like, Okay. So I guess I can't I guess I can't escape talking about this. It's I

don't know. It's just one of those things I can't attend. I get a little bit kind of uncomfortable about it in person when I just have what I think is a normal relationship with people and they're like yeah I watch you I watch you on the internet um anyway I actually had this conversation where they were like oh yeah so like what do you think of the quest 2 I'm like oh it's it's a great value but Facebook is basically you know stealing your data well it's not stealing if you give it to them they're taking they're taking your data and uh giving you a cheaper headset and the guy the guy's just like no i don't care what do i care they can have it i like ads and i was like the thing is okay i like ads is a very odd take but the thing is i think the majority of people actually have that opinion. As much as they'll complain about the ads, whatever,

the majority of the time they'll buy the cheaper device. And that's just, yeah, I don't know. Yep. Solbarth says, my neighbor has the Oculus. It is one of these. A week ago, he insisted they weren't going to monetize it. Oof. Oof. So there you have it, ladies and gentlemen. It finally happened. I wish we had a convenient list of all the promises that Facebook

made back when they acquired Oculus. They have now broken all of them, but the reality of it is as angry as you might be, you're a tiny minority and the mass market just doesn't care. And Facebook's plan is going to work. In fact, it's not just going to work. It has already worked. I was blown away. I still think of VR as kind of niche i mean don't you it absolutely is okay it's not kind of niche it is absolutely niche for sure can i blow your mind for a moment here yeah okay i'm gonna blow your mind i bet you haven't looked it up because

you don't care because you have an index yeah the oculus quest 2 on amazon which is not even the only place you can buy it has 48 000 reviews it is also one of those things that probably the vast majority of people that buy it are reviewing it now okay i'm really glad you brought that up because i was ready for it um so because i'm actually an amazon seller now right i i have my own personal experience that i can talk about with respect to what percentage of people might actually review a product okay so remember and and okay you say though the quest to being an enthusiast product right like it is i mean vr it's not for my mom it let's just get real uh so so being a technophile how would i say that a technophile product or yeah okay yeah i agree with you that it's the kind of thing that people are more

likely to leave a consumer review for that's totally fair but i also think that it's also an extreme experience item yes a lot of people that are having this it's probably their first ever in vr and a lot of people after they have their first experience in vr want to tell people about it and are thrilled okay so i agree with you now can i offer a counter a counterpoint yes when i announced that the abcs of gaming was available on amazon i specifically said you know one of my favorite things to do actually and this is still true is read people's honest reviews of the book i said look don't leave a review if you don't actually buy it

because that's not helpful. It's not constructive. But I love reading reviews from people who have bought it. So we have 45 ratings and I forget exactly how many reviews. They all warm my heart, by the way. It's so cool hearing people talk about reading it to their kids and all that kind of stuff.

I can tell you now, 45 is a lot less than how many we've sold. A lot less. And so based on those numbers for the Quest 2, like just in America alone, it's got to be hundreds of thousands of them through amazon alone which it's just this it's this enormous number like i wouldn't even have thought of vr as the kind of thing that you know one percent of people would actually spend three hundred dollars on but here we are the quest 2 alone is that popular and that's not even counting psvr however many

indexes it had a mass yeah it had a massive massive spike with uh with covid absolutely that was pretty heavily documented yeah yeah i'm uh i'm i'm blown away because it looks like i still think it's super niche i don't think any of that actually changes no mind no but it's also way more mainstream than i thought and way faster than i thought i thought that facebook's master plan to get to own consumer vr was going to take a lot longer however apple hasn't responded yet yeah i mean um what's his name at Oculus when I was there in 2016, I think, said it was going to be 10 years. And obviously there's going to be progress along that road, right? So we're five years in. Halfway in.

Yeah. Yeah. Red Evo says all my friends have a Quest 2. Yep, I can see that. I can totally see that. All right, let's jump into our next topic here. So this has been a bit of a controversial one. The Founders Edition RTX 3070 Ti.

So the one that we actually reviewed. ETI. So the one that we actually reviewed, people are having a really hard time finding evidence online that NVIDIA ever actually launched it. So Best Buy in the US, and shoot, I forget who it is. Is it Scan? I don't know. There's a partner over in Europe as well. But Best Buy in the US was among the only places that you were actually able to get a Founders Edition 3070 Ti at launch. But did it really? After Best Buy angered customers by selling the RTX 3070 Ti online only when the 3080 Ti actually did launch in store, which obviously makes it easier for bots to snatch them up, after that whole thing happened, it turned out that not even the bots got any. Now, I hate to give any attention to bot and reseller groups at this time,

especially given the adversarial relationship that the gaming community and the reselling communities have. that the gaming community and the reselling communities have. But according to bot and reseller groups, the card never actually went up for sale. It apparently went immediately from coming soon to out of stock. And other major reseller groups have corroborated the story with one saying, my monitors didn't see any 3070Ti's go in stock on launch day. And this is a different behavior from previous launches on the Best Buy website,

where adding it to the cart isn't enough. You need to wait for preparing to distribute, then click add to cart again. If there's enough stock, then it'll work. And so that delays the checkout process. So this delay can last several minutes. So if you're thinking that maybe they got snapped up by particularly quick bots, that doesn't appear to be what happened because, and this adds even more fuel to this controversy. Luke, if you want to, I'm going to fire this up if you want to talk them through the rest of it here. Sorry, give me a sec.

It's just, it's, yeah. I mean, the fact of the matter is it's it's unsure what's actually going on we don't know that it's a paper launch but but with no evidence on either side uh it kind of seems like it anthony added a note saying considering demand and supply right now any launch is a paper launch but i'm inclined to agree with the crowd this and i agree with him pretty strongly there. We've talked about this in the past. This was a pretty notable point of something that I don't necessarily even want to bring up again, which was the 3080 Ti pricing, which is just like,

it basically doesn't matter because you're not gonna be able to buy one anyways, which ended up being maybe potentially even more true, but the founders edition RTX 3070 Ti. So this is one of those ones where I'm having a hard time figuring out exactly what NVIDIA is playing at. If I had to guess, I would say they saw the backlash after the 3080 Ti launch where gamers were clearly

not happy with them pricing it according to what the market will bear. They wanted them to price it more in line with the MSRPs of their product launches in September, the 3090, 3080, and 3070. So it seems like what they did is they responded by pricing the 3070 Ti more in line with those September launches, at least for the Founders Edition. As we talked about on the WAN show a couple of times over the last couple of weeks, NVIDIA is not a manufacturer. They do not actually play a manufacturing role in add-in board partner cards. So bringing back up these eBay listings, whether it's ASUS or EVGA or Gigabyte or MSI or Palette or whoever it is. So you can see all these different Zotac. NVIDIA is not the manufacturer for those cards. So when NVIDIA sets an MSRP, it's more of a public relations move than an actual enforceable pricing directive.

They can't control it. If NVIDIA says, hey, Asus, price your card at, I'm having trouble remembering, is it $599, I think, for the 3070 Ti? Price your card at $599. They can say that and they can throw a little tantrum if Asus doesn't do it, but they ultimately did not make the product. Yeah, $599. They did not sell it to the reseller who will ultimately market up and resell it to the customer. And so they don't really have any power. There are levers that they can pull.

They can slash Asus's allocation on the next round of production, or they can slash their marketing budget. There are things they can do, but ultimately, legally speaking, they cannot control the price that Asus actually sells it at, in spite of that being their MSRP for the 37 ETI. The one card where that's an exception is the Founders Edition, because that is actually NVIDIA's card that they actually price 37 ETIs. As far as we can tell, it's pretty much none. And just kind of went, okay, see you later. Bye-bye.

Technically, consumers, we're the good guys. We priced it at $599, which is actually, in my opinion, pretty reasonable. Yes, it's not a huge performance uplift over the 3070. Yes, it has a crypto mining lock, which I still think blows because outside of miners, like regular consumers, I have no problem with them mining, especially now that graphics cards cost so much. It's nice to be able to offset the cost a bit um so yeah like it has sucky things about it but it's not outlandish it's not it's not crazy it's a way better value than the 3090 was at launch and yeah a handful of people complained about that they kind of went

yeah well it's a titan it's overpriced what do you want there wasn't the same level of freakout that there was over the 3080 ti so what it looks like is nvidia is trying to play both sides they're trying to go hey yeah we priced it at. Look at us. Look at how reasonable we are, which was ultimately our conclusion in our review. But then by not actually making it and by just selling all these chipsets at who knows, it might be at a margin that their add-in board partners won't be able to sustainably hit that price. I have no idea. Because another thing NVIDIA doesn't control is the price of all the other components that are required to make a graphics card, MOSFETs, capacitors, PCBs. I mean, everything is in shortage and or a logistical challenge right now. Metals and general circulars.

Metal even is going up in price like crazy. NVIDIA can't even control that stuff anyway. So ultimately, the board partners are going to price it higher and NVIDIA can kind of go, yeah, but we did the right thing, is kind of what it smells like to me. But what we can do is we can check and see, okay, did any of these make it out there?

Because if they did, that means they did at least sell some two 3070 ti founders editions three sold on ebay that's it two of these appear to be from the same seller because this is an identical picture unless one of them is just a fake listing which is also possible i would say it also says ships next day which my understanding is uh you're not allowed to sell things you don't have yeah both of these are from the tone zone never used in any way that's it wow can you can you open up that picture more i guess i'm going to see this super delayed so it's not going to help me but is is that like in someone's home or is that a super super standard picture is this possibly just not real at all it's on a desk yeah it's on a dx racer desk um okay but it's it's also entirely possible that

this is like a review unit or something like i don't know what i'm kind of who this is if there's literally one like well there's literally three yeah but two and two of them are cop like two of them look exactly the same right yeah that's true and actually so maybe there's two both listings say card was taken out of box to inspect content and take photos for this ad never used in any way i mean why would you take two of them out of the box to take the same picture so it kind of it kind of sets off my bs detector right away there yeah yeah um so in terms of ones that are actually different from each other there's just two one in california and one of them in kentucky that's it how we haven't had a single user say that they they've used it right so like someone could have

one that they're just sitting on gaming with right now yep we haven't heard anyone come forward saying that they are i mean yeah i i mean it doesn't mean it's impossible we've got over 10 000 people watching right now sup y'all hey thanks for tuning in uh i want to hear from you guys uh hit the atlinus tech the official twitter uh hit the atlinus tech handle if you have a picture of of an RTX 3070 TI founders in your computer, I want to see it. Yeah. Yeah.

I want to see it in your computer and flash me like flash me an L for LTT in the picture so that we can verify that you actually saw this message and you're not just like stealing this picture from somewhere. Yeah. So chef Mike who says, well, why did Nvidia lied? Okay okay so they didn't lie they released the 37 eti priced at 599 the because there's one right exactly so that's

what it means that's what it means it means no, they didn't lie, but also what they did appears to have been extraordinarily misleading because it doesn't appear that the pricing they promised is anything that they can actually deliver to the end user in any way. Declan 3093 says, bruh, you can buy them on StockX. Okay, how many? Declan 3093 says, bruh, you can buy them on StockX. Okay. How many? How many?

Here, hold on. Let's find out. Okay. So 3070 TI founders. Remember, we're looking for founders edition. So... Okay. This doesn't say how many there are though yeah and actually number of sales nine

that is still that is still fewer than the number okay love you honey yeah i love you thank you for sponsoring but you gotta go away right now that is still fewer than they would have sent out in review samples alone. We've only accounted for 11 cards now. That's it. So even if they did release it, even if they did produce a bunch of these, it's nothing compared to a typical GPU launch. Now, we could go silver lining on this. We could go silver lining on this and we could say,

oh, well then maybe the conspiracy theory that NVIDIA is using up all of their good dies to make the new TI parts and they're going to cut off supply of the non-TI lower price parts. Maybe that's not true then. maybe that's not true then um but i also think that it probably is more to do with that they're just allocating everything to mobile where they make way more anyway uh that's another thing too that's like something that i think the people who were upset because it was going to constrain supply of 3070 and 3080 weren't accounting for is that 3080 and 3070 have been constrained since the mobile part launches anyway because nvidia makes way more on mobile gpus um so that's just something to consider because there's no aib they just get to sell the dies and i believe they sell the memory as well don't quote me on that one but they just get to sell the bare kit directly to the integrator who's going to put it right on

the pcb right on the motherboard of their notebook um and they're also just more expensive uh they just charge more for them um all right so let's see uh so far nothing we haven't had anyone hit us up with a picture of a 3070 ti i mean that's pretty substantial and and you're not just i think did you say 10 000 is that just the youtube audience because you've got twitch and flow plane watching as well that's a pretty substantial amount of people i counted both remember this is a amount of enthusiast audience that is this is the exact people that would be buying this card yes would be trying to buy card, would know a friend that bought this card. Something like that.

The reach and demographic is extremely strong. So I think some people are misunderstanding what I'm saying. Mr. Tom says, check Steam to see how many are in use to see if there's any 3070 TIs. No, no. I'm not saying there's no 3070 TIs. I'm saying Nvidia is trying to eat their cake and have it too. They're trying to play the good guy, releasing 3070 TI at this reasonable price

in the grand scheme of things, but also sell it at market prices through their AIBs because, oh, well, there's nothing we can do to control the price that Gigabyte or ASUS sets it at. And we've seen this behavior in the past. I mean, it's not like this is new because of the COVID pandemic or anything like that. NVIDIA will set a very aggressive launch price. And over time, whether it's in the form of super clocks or Strix or whatever, all those MSRP launch priced models will ultimately get discontinued to be replaced by slightly better ones with better coolers and better VRM and whatever else. And

the truth of the matter is, from the AIB's perspective, that's often necessary to A, build cards that are at a quality that they're happy with, and B, actually manage to make any money on those cards. I get it. I understand why it happens. It's just that now it's happening to a much more extreme degree, like we've never seen before. It's taking that phenomenon and it's blowing it up under a magnifying glass because the difference between this NVIDIA pie-in-the-sky fantasy price and the real-world price is so huge. I would imagine there's significant pressure on NVIDIA from their partners to not make too many founders 37 ETIs because they're just going to be making them look bad

because it's not realistic. It's basically, it's dumping. I mean, it's actually an illegal practice in some context. Dumping a product where you have like a supply side advantage and competing unfairly against anyone let alone your own partners i mean they could be opening themselves up to legal action potentially if they were reallocating all the chips to themselves and selling it at a price that their partners can't meet when they have the burden of all of this overhead that comes along

with developing these cards for themselves like it's actually a big problem it's not and there's no quick and easy solution as far as my understanding goes a lot of the board partners were pretty frustrated about founders edition at all in the first place let alone in the current climate so yeah i i expect there's quite a bit of pressure there now i'm a little confused by this one um it appears the point appears to be that um that well there's a picture on twitter i'm just trying to figure out uh where the 3070ti founders edition is in this picture i think you i think you might have missed the memo yeah i didn't really get the point on that one yeah um yeah so it was supposed to be in your computer which it looks like the computer is

potentially in pieces um and there's supposed to be a graphics card all right okay so we've got perfect elhand though fantastic we've got another one who missed the point this is a great sticker by the way i love it ltd store sticker this is a 3080 ti this is not a 3070 ti come on guys you just want your 15 minutes of fame don't you i knew it i knew it okay it's an extremely fast 15 minutes dang it guys here's a 3070 mobile no no no you need to have a 3070 ti founders edition that's the whole point we're saying they're not there we're saying they're rare all right why don't we move on to our next topic and we'll give people a little while to fully understand i need a picture of your 3078 TI Founders Edition. Come on, guys.

He's showing you the big L because he couldn't get one. Yeah, that sounds about right. Okay. All right. You know what? That's funny. I will give you that one. I absolutely love it.

Speaking of big L's, should we talk about Starlink? Big L, no graphics card in this picture. I love it big l's should we talk about starlink big l no graphics card in this picture i love it okay all right luke tell me about starlink an arizona reddit user has said that his starlink dish overheated and shut off once it reached a maximum temperature of 122 degrees fahrenheit that's 50 degrees c. The area reported 112 degrees at the time with a high of 119. It returns to operation at 104 degrees Fahrenheit, which is actually kind of nice. I just assumed it was going to like die. But it seems like if you do cool it down, it does start to work again. The Arizona beta tester sprayed his dish with a sprinkler and it kicked back on upon

reaching the reduced temperature um which i guess i mean you put them outside so yeah spraying with water is probably fine but that's still something that i feel like i would probably be reluctant to do um however other users commenting on the reddit thread mentioned they're experiencing similar temperatures and not experiencing the overheating and shutting down. So it could just be a couple isolated incidents. Yeah. Tesla has. I mean, it could even be as simple as just like the angle of the dish and the sun hitting it.

Like if it's. Because it could be really concentrated on one point. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Tesla has told a third user whose dish failed at 111 degrees Fahrenheit that it was a software issue and they're working to resolve it, which surprised me when I first read this. Sounds to me like the software issue is that they just have a safety shut off and they're just going to disable it. Yeah, which is probably why the thing doesn't break, right? Which seems possible as they're failing below the rated temperature of 122 degrees Fahrenheit.

So there's probably, yeah, probably a failsafe triggering a little bit early. Yeah. The low point at which the units stop working is negative 22 degrees Fahrenheit or negative 30 degrees Celsius, if you were interested. Another somewhat extreme weather case, and with the Earth getting warmer, this might not be important soon enough. It's also getting more extreme, though. Some places are getting quite cold at times. Areas closer to the North and South Pole aren't even supported by Starlink yet, like all of Antarctica and most of the Arctic Circle. So the coldness portion is probably not going to be noticed quite as much. not going to be noticed quite as much but 50 degrees celsius is like i mean that's pretty crazy but that does that does happen quite often in a lot of places and having your your whole

internet go down because it gets hot outside uh pretty unfortunate yeah that kind of sucks you know what's funny is uh my mom should do a water-cool school starlink satellite i almost got an opportunity my mom was doing a uh or is she's working on an off-grid place right so they're gonna do the whole like compost toilet or whatever it's like this super new age like like toilet system um they're doing off-grid power and obviously one of the things they want to figure out is um one of the things they want to figure out is internet, right? And so she asked me, okay, hey, you talked to me before about using a ubiquity air fiber link or something like that across the water. I'm like, yeah, I did talk to you about that before. We had actually looked into buying the property right next to them. And that was what I was looking into for myself.

And we ultimately figured out how much a recreational property actually costs. And we were like, so by this math, assuming we even had this much money, we could stay at an Airbnb for two months out of every year for 50 years and not even get close or something like that. It wasn't quite that ridiculous, but maybe it was like a month a year or something. It doesn't matter. The point is we wouldn't have to do any of the laundry for our towels. We wouldn't have to cart food across the water to this off-grid place when we wanted to go there we were like this this doesn't actually recreational property at least owning one unless you're going to airbnb it it just didn't make any sense for us

sure if you're going to live there it's not a recreational property anymore though is it so for the amount of if you're planning to retire there, it's not a recreational property anymore, though, is it? So for the amount of... No, no, if you're planning to retire there, because you could Airbnb it in the short term. Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The point is, I was trying to help her figure out internet for it, and I had already looked into it. So there's a marina on the other side of the water where you can lease a space on there. They have this tower, and you can put your dish on it, and then you can run your cables. They have a nice waterproof entry into this hut that you put your modem in, and then you can beam your cables. They have a nice waterproof entry into this hut that you put

your, uh, your modem in, and then you can, you can beam your internet across the water that way. So she was asking me, she's, she's, I'm reasonably, I'm reasonably proud of her. Sometimes she was asking me, she's like, Oh, I heard Elon Musk invented some kind of satellite internet. Should I do that thing you were talking about before? Or should I get myself one of those? internet should i do that thing you were talking about before or should i get myself one of those and what i basically said to her was if you want the idiot proof solution that you can recommend to your other buddies on the island who i am not going to be willing to go and set it up for them get starlink but if you want the better solution that is going to be more reliable from our experience with Starlink, it's beta. And SpaceX is completely honest about it. It's in beta,

and it's not perfect. And this is exactly the kind of bug wrinkling out that needs to happen during a beta test. And I'm glad they're getting it sorted out. And I'm not surprised. And I'm sure they're going to get it sorted. It's just a matter of like, normally when you set the operating temperatures for a product, it would be with pretty large tolerances on either side. Like I'm sure if you have a cell phone,

it probably says the operating temperature minimum is like zero degrees or minus 10 degrees or something along those lines. And yet, somehow here in Canada, we use iPhones. It's wild. It doesn't make any sense. It should be. The battery life...

Imagine using phones, dude. I can't. I actually want to look it up now. iPhone operating temperature. Between 32 and 95 Fahrenheit. What does that even mean? Ah, what is Fahrenheit? So that's zero.

Zero and 35 Celsius. So by the logic of adhering to the you know acceptable operating temperature you basically can't live in calgary or arizona um because i'd live streamed that whole snowboarding thing that just that i just imagined all that that wouldn't have worked at all you broke apple's mind so to be clear i'm not saying that it is ideal for these products to be used under those conditions. I think Apple is very correct to say that if you use it at a lower temperature, you might not have an optimal experience. And in fact, if you are in a very hot environment, you can easily have it trigger overheating warnings. If you, for example, leave it somewhere where the sun is coming right down on the turned off black screen and heats up the whole thing, you'd be amazed how much of the

cooling of your phone is done through the screen. It's the largest heat dissipating surface on your phone. The first time I fired up a thermal camera to look at a phone. I was just blown away by, I mean, obviously, you know, yeah, the heat has to come out somewhere, but I just never really thought about it. I always thought, because I'd never really thought about it. I always just thought, oh yeah, that's why we have the metal frame around the outside. It's like for better, I never thought about

the heat conductivity of glass and it might be lower than metal for sure. It's lower than metal, but it's so much more surface area compared to that skinny frame around your phone, especially now that phones are basically 50% screen and 50% more different glass on the back. The point is, I'm sure that they had some buffer in their rated temperatures

and I'm sure they can just kind of bump the buffer a little bit and it'll be okay or who knows maybe it won't maybe they'll just be playing fast and loose you know tesla style and it'll all be you know hopefully good you know it really worries me how much tesla is revising their cars this is not one of our topics in the doc today but it's been in the news this week that they removed radar from i believe it's the model three and the model y and uh tesla's tesla's rationale for this is that they're committed to a camera only smart self-driving car future it's funny they have a blog post from i think 2016 that they have since removed so they went back they removed this talking about the merits of radar

and how it's better for adverse conditions i'm pretty sure we talked about on a win just as you're going into this a concept that tesla revising their cars has made me think about a lot recently yeah is the ssd video that i don't think you guys have actually done yet uh it's coming soon it's shot already yeah okay so that exact concept i was reading something recently about how tesla's revising their cars and i was like oh my goodness so it's these ssds do you remember last week when i came at you saying here's this feature that should be on every phone and they they could code it in an afternoon and you were like um actually you know that's not how development works especially at a large company like apple and that's that was more my point by the way someone posted me basically a proof that they

could do it in an afternoon um to twitter it wasn't okay so okay but i got i gotta go over this no no i gotta go over this i'm about to say you're right i'm about to say my point was the the almost like bureaucratic process that a lot of those development teams have to go through absolutely it wasn't the ability for an individual coder to be able to create a proof but anyways sorry keep going so anyway so last week i'm all like blah blah blah you can code something in an afternoon but here's the problem those things add up and one of the biggest costs to having a product is maintaining it right and here's the problem tesla has made a lot of promises over the years right about their cars like they've promised that self-driving hardware platforms that they've

released years ago at this point are going to get full self-driving capabilities at some point in the future. So then what? Is Tesla actually going to support all of these different iterations, all of these different iterations, all of these different hardware platforms, not just to get full self-driving, you know, working at all, but to maintain it. How on earth are they going to do that?

It's a lot. I mean, they can. They can do it, but it's a lot um i mean they can they can do it but it's a lot well i mean they would just they would have the different versions of the cars probably i'm going to assume they would have the different versions of the cars sure um and then yeah they would just i'm sure the the older versions with stuff that they didn't want to actually keep up to date would just get worse updates um over time but they would still like just function that's that's relatively standard right so uh jetprox says it's hardware 3 only but when did they release hardware 3 tesla hw3 When did that come out? Release date.

Okay. April 2019. I'm sorry. Last time I checked, April 2019 is years ago. And the changes that they're making, removing radar from these cars, that fundamentally changes the capability of the vehicle. So either they're going to have two years worth of cars here that have their hardware three platform or HW3. I actually don't know if it's short for hardware.

I don't care. It doesn't matter. The HW3 platform, the hardware three. Yeah, it's hardware three. So they're going to have two years of these hardware three platform cars that do have radar. And they're what? They're just going to turn it off. Presumably, they'll also have worse cameras because I wouldn't be surprised if Tesla's just just rolling camera sensor updates as they go because why not um yeah yeah or they're gonna have these

newer cars that do not have that radar information being added to their full self-driving capability i mean you can you can defend tesla all day but at the end of the day it is an undeniable fact that supporting software on multiple hardware platforms is a lot more difficult than supporting software on an ongoing basis. Remember, on an ongoing basis on a single hardware platform. And so something's got to give. And extremely commonly when this is done, they'll support it. But there's going to be the version with the least users is going to get the worst experience uh we we've even experienced this with um like like

motherboards for example even if you have a super super high-end product like a really high-end expensive motherboard yeah well yours might also have the least people purchasing it and it might get the worst support because of that despite it being like an expensive uh product or device so apparently they already disabled the radar last update so rather than having a feature that they sold to consumers as a benefit they have disabled it uh in the name of okay that's good i guess um disabled it in the name of, okay, that's good, I guess, disabled it in the name of having a platform that's easier to support. Oh, man. Yeah, they're probably just going to backtrack on it at the end of the day.

I mean, I've been a Tesla full self-driving skeptic for a long time. I think that they make a lot of promises that they're not sure they can deliver on. But I'd love to be wrong. I mean, I think I've told you, Luke, that the first time I spend big money on a car could easily be when the first truly self-driving car comes out because that has an enormous value to me. Incredible. Yeah. self-driving car comes out because that has an enormous value to me and incredible um i yeah

rafael says machine learning is not just if-else statements not saying you thought that linus but yeah that has nothing to do with anything nothing to do with what i'm saying guys yeah no dude yeah it's it's it's not it's not just if else bro come on but it's complicated what i'm saying is that software development is really complicated yeah i mean he's he's agreeing with you it's one of the reasons that the app ecosystem on android is such a mess because you've got all these different permutations of what a phone is supposed to be. Whereas Apple at any given time is only supporting at maximum, what, like 10 to 15 devices? That's off the top of my head. It might not be exactly accurate, but it's somewhere in that range. All right. Well, at any rate, we'll see how it goes for developing for xbox or

playstation is often considered considerably easier than developing for pc ps3 poems like to hear that ps3 poems says linus doesn't understand how the radar and cameras give conflicting data which makes it hard for the ai to decide what to do if you're getting conflicting data from your radar and your camera then you need to figure out what's wrong with your radar or your camera um and i'm if i'm behind the wheel i i kind of want to go with whichever one thinks i'm about to crash uh yeah and and like i i don't think that actually speaks to your point at all anyways, because you weren't talking about whether the data conflicts or whether it's better or whatever. All you're talking about is the difficulty of supporting a variety of platforms. Correct. That is the scary thing.

That point is irrelevant. So I don't know. I feel like there's a little bit of, I've been ranting a lot lately. I've been kind of adversarial with our audience i blame myself for that but i also think that it's important to actually listen to the words that are actually coming out of my mouth and not argue points that are that i'm not making you know rafael's back Machine learning is less complicated to code than normal stuff. But we're not even talking about machine learning. Even just driver support, something as simple as still having support for that particular sensor in the car is something that you now have to maintain.

Remember, this is a car. This is not a phone that you will probably not be using in three to five years. This is not a GPU that you will probably discard in five to 10 years. This is a vehicle. This is something you could, go drive. Go for a drive. You will see cars. Do you see any Pontiacs on the road? Of course you do. When's the last time they made a Pontiac? Pontiac out of business when? 2009. That was 12 years ago. They made the last Pontiac. Like when I talk about the difficulty of supporting all these iterations, I'm talking grand scheme of things. The Model S in its current form,

like we're finally getting a refresh now. It's a pretty small one, but an actual refresh. The Model S in its current form was around for eight years. Compared to a typical automaker who's refreshing every year, Tesla has God only knows how many iterations of that car with how many subtle little differences and that stuff that they have to track and they have to account for.

And clearly they've done a pretty good job so far. But it also means that the messaging around it is extremely murky. One of the other things that they just pull off of, I believe it's Model 3, don't quote me on it, but is the passenger side power lumbar thing. They just found that people didn't use it, and so they're killing it to save some cost. And okay, fair enough. But what that means is if I want to buy a Tesla secondhand, for example, I have to know exactly where... It's not like they have a convenient resource for this. Here's when we made all these like random little changes to what's included with a Model 3 and

with a Model Y. It's not like these are configurable vehicles like the Porsche Taycan. That video is coming out on the weekend where you pick every last little option. And so you've got this sheet of everything that was or wasn't included. There's no clear map, at least not a first party one, of when all these little changes were made. And so if you're an average consumer just trying to buy like a used Model 3, you could sit down and go, where the heck is the lumbar support? I thought it had it. It's just really confusing. And what that means is for however many years, Tesla is still going to have to have built into their software that support for passenger side lumbar built into their UI.

I mean, that's another thing. Like from a user interface design perspective, having buttons that are only there for certain versions of your product becomes a challenge. And the more of these buttons that may or may not be there, that are only there for certain versions of your product becomes a challenge. And the more of these buttons that may or may not be there, and the more of these features that may or may not be supported, the more challenging that becomes for your developers.

It's just really difficult, is the only point I'm trying to make. Entirely possible, and I'm sure they'll do it. I'm not. You don't think so? I'm not sure at all. I didn't say I don't think so. I said I'm sure they'll do it but it I'm not it's a little bit more toxic you don't think so I'm not sure at all I didn't say I don't think so I said I'm not sure again please don't put words in my mouth oh you're right yeah yeah or maybe I'm not right I don't know to be fair I asked it as a question um but yeah like things like lumbar support like I I'm I'm sure they'll keep supporting that. I don't know what it looks like in their UI, but it's probably in a list, which is the easiest way to manage those things because removing something from the list often doesn't break how the UI looks.

If it's a button that's in like a row of buttons, that often becomes a little bit more difficult. But yeah, I don't know. Chat is taking exception to the assertion that machine learning projects are easier to ship. Yeah, I just, I again, want to bring up that that had literally nothing to do with the point of what we were talking about. And getting into a conversation about the ease or difficulty of machine learning is not only irrelevant to the current conversation, but probably not something we should do. This is amazing. GraphX from the floatplane chat says,

Porsche shoe buying experience. Oh, sir, you wanted shoelaces? That's an extra $500. Oh, you wanted two shoelaces. Well, it's so true. It was an absolute nightmare absolute freaking nightmare trying to because my original intention was to buy one review it and then resell it kind of like what my original plan was for these car reviews in the first place and i got in there and i got so

overwhelmed by how just spectacularly cornered you need to be to even understand half of the options on that vehicle that I just left and didn't buy it and waited for Jake to coordinate something through their rental program. At least because part of it is, you know, that I'm not familiar with all these features. And that's fine. I don't mind educating myself.

But the degree of education I would have needed for how badly I actually wanted to spend that kind of money on a car in the first place, they didn't match up. And the anxiety that I'd have spending that kind of money on a product and not picking exactly the right options for me. Yeah. Yeah. It's paralyzing. I couldn't, I couldn't do it. This is impossible. No way. And the, the Porsche, the, the Porsche program is, uh, apparently it's the Taycan is their most customizable car ever. And I believe it. It was an absolute nightmare. Oh, speaking of nightmares, I have this recurring one where I forget to talk about our sponsors. The show is brought to you today by EPOS.

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of that. The only reason I said it the way that I did, Ridge Wallet wants to redefine the wallet. That was their talking points. I didn't make the talking points. And instead of correcting it, like I do with a lot of bad talking points, I rolled with it. I was like, this is really funny. They want to so badly. They just really want to. Someday they'll do it. They think it'd be awesome. They finally revised the talking points. So that's why it has changed. Ridge Wallet has redefined the wallet with their two metal plates bound by a strong elastic band to keep your cards tightly together, but still accessible. And their RFID blocking plates on either side.

They're available in aluminum, carbon fiber, and titanium. They offer a lifetime guarantee. And they don't just sell wallets. They've got battery banks, bags, smartphone covers, and more. And you can use offer code WAN to save 10% on everything at ridge.com slash WAN. We've got a couple more pretty good topics for today, don't we? Windows 11 leaks are you upgrading luke are you going to windows 11 you were windows 7 diehard come on tell me about it

i don't like windows 10 i still don't like windows 10 i i only switched to windows 10 because it got to the point where it was it like almost felt like a necessity you know like it had been so long and like the support for, I had, I had moved to windows 8.1 with a window seven skin, but the support for windows seven or let alone windows 8.1 was so bad that eventually it was just like, this is just not good or really even.

Okay. So time to move to windows 10. Um, I'm definitely interested. I usually don't like moving to operating systems early, but I am also a strong believer in Microsoft's like every second one is good cadence. So, yeah, I don't know.

Okay. Yeah, you don't like moving to operating systems early, but can I just make an argument here that Windows 11 is basically like moving to Windows systems early but can i just make an argument here that windows 11 is basically like moving to windows 10 not early because it seems to be kind of the same thing yes um yeah and that i mean that's that's true but that is also how their like second cadence thing kind of works um like 8.1 was kind of 7 refined yep um maybe 11 is going to be 10 refined who knows um it's been a little it's been a little weird for a while but yeah i'm actually quite interested in windows

11 or whatever the heck it actually ends up being um now yeah you tried daily driving linux for a while and ultimately came back to windows for gaming but But I don't think you've tried to do the drive. Not entirely. That wasn't actually the core reason why I switched. I don't know if you remember that part. Oh, hit me. I'm about to drive a bunch of people really crazy. The work that I do these days is really not that technical. I need a browser.

I need a word processor. I need an Excel sheet type thing. Chromebook. I could work on a Chromebook pretty well. Right. Okay. The screens would annoy me because I really use a lot of screen space because I put stuff everywhere. But I mean, I could figure that out. Right. So like, what's really important to me is to be able to get into my work really quickly and to have the least amount of things in the way as possible. Right. And daily driving Linux, as much as this can drive a bunch of people nuts, included a lot of micromanaging things. All right. Fair enough.

things all right you know and like as as lame as it is and i accept that part i accept that part wholeheartedly it's nice that everything just works i don't have to do anything with it it just works every time and i i tell windows updates to screw off for weeks at a time and then finally grab them all at once and everything's fine and it does it for me and everything's easy it's just it just kind of works like i would we used to use discord for work we don't anymore uh we do whenever slack's voice decides to just completely crap out so we do every few months um but we don't really use it for work anymore and like updating discord on linux was just actually super annoying it was fine i could get through it it just took significantly longer right and no i don't mean significantly longer than like a day but anything more than like a few seconds is is too much because that's all it takes

on another platform so i don't know i know that drives a lot of people nuts um but i don't i don't care so yeah yeah there's some people actually agreeing with you in the chat um like right now right now the fact that i'm on windows doesn't actually help me for gaming because i run different users based on work or not work because i find it easier to manage all my stuff that way right okay so like yeah so it would it's it's pretty close to what i was doing when i was running linux for work which was just i would just boot into different operating systems depending on what i wanted to do now i just load different users depending on what i want to do so like i was going to pitch you trying it again now that proton's a thing but it sounds like there's just

other issues i think this person put it really well. Daysdream says, yeah, but when Linux doesn't work, you can dive in and fix it. On Windows, you have to deal with it until Microsoft suddenly decides to care about your workflow, if ever, which is a fair point. But then the very next chat, this is on YouTube, says, yeah, Linux is like a second tech job for those who are interested. Some people get enough, though. And those are both completely valid viewpoints. Totally. 100%.

The issue is my workflow is not going to break. And so this is... It's like OpenOffice or Word are going to work, and a browser is going to work. And this is Gagas Amukti's comment. Isn't Luke a developer? I used to. He has like a development team.

Not so much. Yeah. Go fake it, right? They are significantly better than me. And that's sort of the point. So I would much rather that they did it. Yeah, pretty much. We are in much better hands.

I was going to say, the platform's better than ever with them running it. Well, you run it,ke you run it you i actually had someone kind of angry at me recently about the fact that i haven't really talked about bill c10 uh on wanshow and it's something that we're working on behind the scenes we're engaged with youtube on it we're engaged with um our government representation about it we are working on putting together like a focus group of Canadian creators to kind of sit down and talk about what are the challenges?

You know, what are the problems? What do you want to see come out of this? As far as I can tell, C10 is going to happen in some form or other. But what we can do is we can make sure as YouTubers, we have a seat at the table to talk about, you know, how it should support. Particularly, for my part, I even told them this.

I'm like, look, for me, the thing that makes me most angry about all of this is where were you guys 10 years ago, right? When I actually needed this, the point of this kind of funding. So this is the CMF, the Canadian Media Fund. this kind of funding uh so this is the cmf the canadian media fund the point of this kind of funding that you're asking youtube to contribute to is supposed to be to support novel um uh experimental types of content not just to dump it back into the traditional media companies that are already frankly profitable enough uh and they kind of went well yeah we're trying to make that right and i say well okay well how are you going to do that and they say well we're going to have youtubers advise us and i go well who if you have people like me advise you how is that going to be beneficial to people who are just

starting out in their basements i think there's a lot of things that have not been fully thought out but i'm mostly saving my thoughts for the people who are actually working on this stuff because that's where i have an opportunity to make a difference. So it's not that I'm not aware of it. It's not that I'm not engaging on it. It's just that I'm doing it behind the scenes. Honestly, I wish that kind of stuff wasn't my job. And I just made tech videos because that's way better. But it is what it is. It is what it is. What else we got? Yeah, it's really exciting for us and uh where we will hopefully have more fun stuff to to announce that ties in with that quite tightly uh in the future not sure how far in the future but in the future um in other news nvidia is ending support for windows

7 and windows 8, effective October 2021. Speaking of what I was saying earlier, yep. So game-ready driver upgrades will be coming exclusively for systems utilizing Windows 10. Critical security updates, however, will continue until 2024. This is coming on the heels of both the Windows 11 announcement and NVIDIA's own move to end of life kepler gpus i can see why they're doing it almost 93 percent of steam users are running windows 10 and we've talked a lot actually on the show today about the ongoing development costs of supporting multiple platforms

because you gotta remember these things these things multiply right so every gpu skew times every GPU SKU times every OS, right? It's pretty scary. GTX 770 launching it. Yeah, it's not surprising. The timing is pretty rough on some of this stuff, though, with the current tech market being what it is. But I totally understand why they're doing it. By and large, their long-term driver support isn't something that i find particularly bad about

nvidia i think they actually do a pretty darn outstanding job of supporting their hardware in the long term especially for a company that doesn't meaningfully monetize the product after they've sold it to you like you look at apple right The tech market being in the space that it is doesn't really limit people from changing OSs to Windows 10. No, but I mean, I don't know. If I was going to go through the hassle of upgrading my OS, I might want to try to time it with a hardware upgrade. Like under normal circumstances, I'd want to. Yeah, that makes sense, I guess.

So the comparison I was going to make to Apple is Apple does an outstanding job of supporting their phones compared to other phone makers, but they also have the benefit of having the App Store with its 30% cut on all the transactions through it to continue to fund those devices.

So Apple's best course of action is to have as many iPhones as possible. They continue to make money on the iPhone long after it's in the hands of the consumer. Whereas NVIDIA, I mean, I don't know. They might manage to profit a little bit from user data, but it would not be to nearly the degree that Apple's profiting from App Store transactions and things like that. Speaking of Apple, Tim Cook reaffirms apple's

stance that app side loading is bad um blah blah blah blah blah blah blah destroy the security and a lot of the privacy initiatives blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah all right yeah um okay yeah i think that's pretty much it for that hey in other news though check this out we've got a new shirt on the store hey we've got a new reflective design it's a cpu wait is this the right one? I think so. We actually were working on quite a few of these at the same time, so I kind of have derped here. Wait, now I'm confused. Which one's the new one? Reflective circuit. Okay, good, good, good, good, good. Yeah, I got confused there. Hey, Luke's wearing it. Oh, wait, hold on. I'm not wearing it. I'm wearing the reflective CPU one. I really like this reflective ink. It looks super cool cool it kind of catches the light in the dark so you can get yours on

lttstore.com um what else do we have going on on the store right now i actually don't really think i don't really think we have anything else shaken uh if you wanted to get your hands on the larger cpu pillow just make sure you move fast We don't have too many of those left. And our restock is going to be pretty slow. You want to hear something crazy, Luke? What? I had to book not just our next order of pillows, but also like an entire year of like pillow supplies because alpaca wool is apparently skyrocketing in price right now and our supplier wants us to commit to all the alpaca wool that we're going to need for the next year would you like to know how large of a check i cut today for alpaca wool

oh my goodness um yeah sure why not this information is only for the land show faithful uh who make it this far into the video um today i wrote a quarter million us dollar chat the whole time i was sitting here just like i'm actually so uncomfortable it's like i know it's going to be so much. That was even worse than I was expecting. Oh, my God. Do you know how much cheaper our cost on those pillows would be if we didn't use... It's even a 60-40 blend. We don't even fill them completely with alpaca wool because it's just cost prohibitive. Yeah. even fill them completely with alpaca wool uh because it's just it's cost prohibitive um yeah but it it is so expensive but it really does make a huge difference to how the pillow feels

so it was one of those things where when we were working on the product as soon as i felt that one i was like we had a 100 sample as soon as i felt it, I was like, oh, now I can't, I can't appreciate like that crappy fill anymore. Um, so we started working on, because the cost made no sense. Uh, so we started working on blends to try to get it to feel at least like good, but not, it's still not as good as a hundred alpaca wool. And yeah, I... Anyway, we settled on what we did. And now I'm stuck buying alpaca wool forever. And yeah, it's time to...

Angry Hobo says, invest in alpacas to the moon. No kidding, right? No kidding. Alpaca farming to the moon. He sells this many pillows? Yeah. Yeah, believe it or not lttstore.com is the thing i mean we did that video recently where we said how does linus media group make money like lttstore.com is a huge part of our business now and we really appreciate you guys supporting us i mean we're trying to we're trying to make sure that everything we release

is a quality product with great support. And, you know, we're treating it like not just merch, but that comes with a significant cost. I mean, we were talking on the pre-show about the order we placed for screwdrivers. It is the single largest, it's the biggest thing I've ever bought,

including the warehouse we work out of now and my new house. It's huge. It's crazy. Huge bet, though. One thing that I would say for the LTT store as well especially because I'm not even on that team at all, is when you make really good stuff and people buy it and they're like, wow, this is really good. Pretty natural that those people are going to come back and buy more stuff. And then when you increase the variance of the things that you make, so now it's not just T-shirts, now it's water bottles, now it's pillows, now it's not just t-shirts now it's water bottles now it's pillows now it's whatever else well if they're really happy with everything they've bought in the past and the prices are like really good and very competitive etc etc etc people are going to come back i i think

i am going to say this statement with an extreme lack of knowledge but it feels to me like the lct store has a lot more repeat customers than a lot of other outfits that I could imagine. Oh, yeah. Repeats are extremely high. This is hilarious. Retnom says, imagine spending seven Bitcoin on alpaca wool. It doesn't sound that bad that way. Soften the blow a little bit.

Yeah. People are telling me to just buy the alpacas. Okay. Alpacas, not cheap. And farmland in, I mean, here where I could, you know, oversee them, also not cheap. I think we're better off just, I think we're better off just buying the alpaca wool. Zertmaster says Noctua hoodies are amazing. Noctua is another one of those companies.

They're honestly a huge inspiration for LTT merch because Noctua does not around whether it's their heat sinks, which is like what they actually make, you know, heat sinks and fans or whether it's their swag or whether it's the like Christmas gift boxes that they send to media partners, whatever it is, Noctua never around. They just do it. They don't do it unless they can do it properly. And because I remember talking to, not to a CEO one time, and I was like, wow, you guys must have the best engineers in the world because you make the best fans in the world. This is a long time ago when I was, I guess, I don't know, young and naive. I don't know. I don't know how I felt, but he was like, no, we just give them the time. We have good engineers and we give them the time to do it right. And if it's not right, we don't release it. And I was like, wow.

That is, that is such, it was just, it was one of those duh, obvious words of just incredible wisdom and i was like wow yeah yeah of course and we have the luxury of being in a business where we make most of our money like making videos or something selling influence whatever that is so we can afford to just this week we had a major setback um our color block hoodies which are those super bright hoodies i wore in one of our recent videos and then we're gonna do we're gonna do just uh an all black one that we're gonna call the color black hoodie haha get it we've got the color block and the color black it's exact same material but it's just

if you don't like bright colors anyway um the supplier we were working with didn't meet our quality standards we got our size run which is when you get one of every size in every style and it costs a fortune to get those done because the garments like they're handmade at that point right um we got our size run done and there were three things that were wrong the sizing was kind of all over the place like off by know, an inch in the arm length on this one and half an inch on the length of this one. The weight of the material varied from one garment to the next and even from one panel to the next. And the color fastness, depending on the color, that is how well the color stays in the fabric, was not as good or it was better. And the factory was basically like, oh, yeah,

well, you know, the final ones will be fine. And we kind of went, no, no, the sizing run will be fine. And then we will cut a six figure order. And only then, and they kind of went, well, we can do we can do one more size of each one. But this is a lot of work. And if you're not happy with it, then I don't know if we can meet your needs. And one of our relatively new people, it was kind of, I don't know, it was kind of amusing to me because she was so nervous. I guess this is from experience at her old job. She was so nervous to give me this terrible news that we had thrown away thousands of dollars and months of production time on this product because she felt that the right thing to do was to was to kill it at this stage and move on to a new supplier and just basically start from scratch because once you get the colors right like that's one of the hardest

things and we had the colors right um and she was she seemed just like terrified to tell me the answer and i was like what should we do she, well, we have all these problems and I feel uncomfortable. Well, I said, well, what should we do? She says, well, it's hard because we have a lot of problems and the supplier doesn't seem to be willing to fix them. I go, what should we do? Do we need to kill it? And she goes, I'm like, if we need to kill it, then we kill it.

And she goes, oh, thank goodness you said that. So she came from a more traditional fashion store, like an actual retail store, where they have seasons, right? Like if they don't launch the spring wear 2021, that product essentially just goes away. They never get to sell it. Whereas we just release stuff when we finish it. So it's a bit of a different mentality. And I don't know, I turned it into kind of an opportunity to talk to the entire team about,

look, we don't release stuff until it's done. And if it costs a lot of money, well yeah i mean we our merch isn't cheap it's reflected in the price of the merchandise that it's not always down to bomb cost i mean this is something we've talked about a lot in the context of things like iphones it's easy to look at an iphone and go oh the bill of materials for this is only 275 or whatever and apple charges a thousand it's like yeah but apple also like throws away a lot of phones that never made it sure apple's profitable they're absolutely profitable but they aren't egregiously profitable when you compare them to a lot of other industries like come on luke don't they have like the most

money how much money do they have in the bank they move a lot of volume they are a mass market brand they move a ton of volume a lot of iphones a lot of app store purchases but yeah i mean they were also the most cat like i hear you but being the most cash rich company in the world which they might not be anymore but at one point in time uh they had 100 and in 2017 they had 163 billion dollars just in cash for fun like i think they were pretty you know i think they're pretty profitable but that's not what margin is i don't think you said margin though okay okay sorry okay their profit margins are not that unreasonable is what i'm saying they do a lot of revenue and they make good margin on that revenue they're they're fine but um the point is the the garment industry does pretty well for profit too and we can absorb those development costs as long

as we are pricing everything reasonably and that's just that's just part of the cost as part of the cost of doing business yeah um i want to do some super chats before we close it out today unfortunately i forgot to click over to the viewer activity tab until right around the time we were uh finishing up the tesla topic so i don't have all of them i really wish youtube would fix this bug um i she outcast says you talk about the big changes in tesla's like getting rid of radar their new super casting but monroe and co great videos sandy monroe oh um have taken more than one model three to pieces and found large other structural changes are all of these crash tested uh with how fast and loose tesla plays uh i would say probably not i mean you know for legal reasons

i'm not going to say no because i don. But yeah, and that could carry pretty heavy implications. But yeah, I sincerely doubt it. I mean, remember, this is the same company that basically just said pandemic, what pandemic and force their workers back to work. Like, it's not like they're it's not like it's a people first kind of business is my take on things. I don't really understand why why there's so much defense for the tesla attitude um i absolutely support the tesla mission an electrified future but i don't support the tesla attitude and we gotta we gotta try to we gotta try to separate those things you know

why is everything black and white these days this is kind of a much much longer deeper conversation um but can't you love some things about something and also want them to improve in other ways i accept laws i can't i can't uh i don't know how to deal with it um all right rafael says linux is free if your time is worthless well okay by that logic windows is also free if your time is worthless because you can you can waste a lot of time around with windows and that's see that that's like potentially i'm not necessarily saying it is but that's potentially getting into like the inflammatory range i'm not saying there was anything wrong with linux it just wasn't like my use case wasn't matching it yeah anymore so i stopped using it that's all it was there's there's been multiple

times in my life where i've mainlined linux that wasn't the only time that i had done it i used to do it when i was in university studying software engineering because it made a lot of sense at the time and it was great i loved it um it just didn't make sense when I tried it last. That's all. MMBBB89 says, I wish Floatplane fixed the download issue to Australia. Download is hard limited to 300 kilobytes per second. I wrote back and forth to support, but nothing changed. Come on, Luke. What do you got?

And it probably won't. Sorry. I think that's a really cool technical conversation, though. Why don't you explain why downloads are so hard to handle compared to streaming VOD? Downloads are expensive. So there's a bunch of different aspects to it. One of them is that it's often all being hit at the same time. If I remember correctly, the infrastructure guys are probably going to correct me on a bunch of stuff here.

But if I remember correctly, the majority of our downloads are not manual. So it's a lot of the second a video goes live, all these downloads are slamming it all at the exact same time. Also, downloads are full and complete. A lot of people don't watch videos that way, even on FlowPlay. I suspect, and i remember way way back we had some actual data on this um but i i suspect it's still the same um that more people watch full complete videos on floatplane than they do on youtube that's probably just more because there's on average uh per person a more hardcore audience but But still, even on Floatplane,

a huge amount of users don't just sit and watch the entire video all the way through. But when you download something, you are. You are watching the entire video the whole way through. So having all of these automated downloads all slamming at the exact same time and all demanding the entire thing all at once at potentially

unlimited rates is very expensive especially in places like you got it australia so yeah yeah um all right what else we got woman retrospector says uh you need a car person to do the car reviews they're very cringe um alex is a car person, literally designed suspension for buggies in university, and he's the final say on the car reviews. I don't know what's cringe about them. I don't know what you're expecting. What we're doing is a more tech perspective. We don't expect to cover absolutely everything about a car. It's a very deep product. So it's a tech perspective, but there will be more carness in the upcoming tycan video because it's less tech and it's more car just to put it to put it one way uh borak says

unrelated to the topic at hand but riley's star citizen video is one of the best things i've seen on any lmd channel i'd love to see more content like it yes we want to support riley to do more tech longer very excited to see more of it myself. I watched the whole thing as well. Ryan Miller says, I hope this $5 lessens that quarter mill. Hey, thanks, Ryan. Appreciate it. You too, Snay Tay. Mr. Colton Gaming says, should I get the 40 ounce or the 21 ounce? I mean, it depends how big you like it. You know what I mean? I find the 21 ounces, not enough water for me for the day, but I also like the, how handleable it is. So it's, it's tough.

Depends how often you want to refill your water bottle. Orion says, how has Windows feature updates been on Pulseway? You're going to have to check with Jake. He actually knows more about it than I do, or you could contact Pulseway's support. They do have, to my understanding, fully featured trials, or you could contact Pulseways support. They do have, to my understanding, fully featured trials, so you could always try it. Syntax VGM says, tall sizes for shirts and hoodies when? I can't wear anything smaller than a 2XL. No one sells tall merch anywhere. That is absolutely something that we're going

to be working on. So we've already figured out the branding for it. We're going to be doing small boy, S-M-O-L, lanky boy, and thick boy sizes for all of our men's sizes at some point. It's going to take some time. I think we've got our t-shirt supplier nailed down. As you heard earlier in the stream, the hoodie supplier has seen some setbacks. But in terms of t-shirts, and hopefully we can finally do a long sleeve, our plan is to first get the regular sizes going, make sure the quality is good, make sure the delivery consistency is good. Then our intention is to do lanky boy first so that would be longer sleeves longer torso and then uh probably thick boy after that and if we have a lot of success with those then small boy at the end that's the that's the goal uh we we totally understand that like inclusivity gets talked about a lot in women's clothing but it feels like it actually doesn't get talked about a lot in women's clothing, but it feels like it actually doesn't get talked about a lot in men's clothing. And I think that's an opportunity for us to go like, Hey, men's clothing

doesn't have to be just like big and not fit you or small and not fit you or short and not fit you. Um, I think that, I think it can be done better. So the fashion team is extremely excited to work on that. And I'm extremely excited to bring that to market. It's going to take some time though, guys. I'm so sorry. That's really cool. Garfish says, those large CPU pillows are 120 Australian to my door. I want to experience the alpaca.

Convince me. They're still a novelty item. You should only buy them if the novelty of having a large cpu pillow will make you happy i want to make that abundantly clear we just care about even our stupid novelty being high quality that's all it's just an obsessive thing at a certain point nick wanted me to point out also women's stuff soonish just so you know. Nice. Yep. That's a huge thing for us. After seeing people get so excited when Yvonne made that one-off pair of underwear for herself out of one of my old pairs of underwear.

Yeah. Old, not used. Aged, but new. Anyway, after she did that, people were super excited about it. And we would be very yeah syntax vgm says you have no idea how hard tall is to find a good t-shirt for even plain 100 um don't worry we're working we are working on it and once we've got the like the material nailed down figuring out all the sizing i've talked to the team about this we want to create like a uh

we want to create like a a beta squadron kind of team uh so we might recruit through floatplane and other places where people are very very avid followers and start building a program where we can do like real person uh size testing for some of this stuff So find people who self-identify as lanky, thick, or small, and get them to go through the same procedure that we do with people in office. It's really funny. Talking to the fashion team is hilarious. Every time I have a meeting with them, it's great because I learn something new. They're like, one of the best things about working at Linus Media Group is we used to have to make men's clothing with almost no men working in the office. So it was really hard to have anyone to try anything on and get any feedback

on sizing. They're like, yeah, the fashion industry is like almost exclusively female. So working in this office with a bunch of tech bros is great because we have all these different body types that we can try the clothing on. That's pretty funny. So we've mostly solved our problem just by hiring a bunch of people. But at some point, we might do a beta program as well. It's something that I've definitely talked to the team about and that I would like to do as we continue to make them better.

All right. I am going to call it for today. Thank you guys so much for tuning in to the WAN show. We will see you again next week. Hope you enjoyed the show. Same bad time, same bad channel. Someone, just one last thing. Someone mentioned, here's a weird idea.

Interactive size slash animation system for the LTT store. We should, we should, I for the ltt store we should we should i'm not serious but we should revive the old connect project i know right luke actually like built a not working at all but tried to get it working like body profile builder thing sort of yeah it's sort of that was like an early like million dollar idea we should do this man too bad we would have needed like you know 20 million dollars in seed funding to make it any good um but yeah that was almost 10 years ago i think that was a long time ago yeah yeah yeah but yeah it would use it would use a connect and it you would stand in front of it and would kind of size you up and then it would try to show you in the clothes.

Remember when a Kinect was a mainstream piece of hardware that you could expect people to have in their houses? Yeah. All right. That's it for today. Bye. oh snap uh people asked for a 3070 ti update oh did you get any tweets uh i'm checking uh i don't see anything none it's like this is about as good as we got i think yep literally nothing nothing at all oh actually in other ltt store leaks i'm really excited about this one i convinced nick to tweet this picture at someone today um on the basis that it's just a reply to somebody. So it's unlikely that anyone's

actually going to see it. But now I'm going to show it on WAN show. Check this out. Here's something I'd love for my daughter when she's bigger, a toy PC building set. We're already working on it. This is I think rev four or so it is super cool one of our new engineers is working on this uh basically there's a cpu under that there's going to be like a sweet print graphic all these parts are 3d printed now but they'll be made out of wood so it'll be kind of like uh like uh i don't know like a baby's first you know kitchen set or baby's first um you know i don't know they're all like kitchen toys whatever the point is this will be baby's first computer uh it's going to be really expensive because quality we want rare earth magnets in all the parts uh nick just messaged me he says if you

weren't the ceo you'd be so fired right now. I love it. So there's going to be rare earth magnets in every one of the parts. So they like really snap into place. So what you're looking at is the CPU cooler. We're going to do like a print graphic on the top of a fan. And then over here, this is a fan. So rear fan, this is a modular power supply. So the cables actually connect on both ends. This was a little tricky. The reason this connector here is so long is because six inches, we think, is the maximum length you can have to not be a choking hazard for like under two, or a strangulation hazard for under twos. This right here is the eight-pin power connector.

That goes up to the power supply as well. The 24-pin connector is here, so it's a weird shape again because it's got to be under six inches, so that goes up there. This plugs into a front fan. This plugs into what i think will be a i think we're going to kill the hard drive because we've got an m.2 ssd and then under the heat sink there's actually a cpu that goes into a socket as well and then this right here these ram sticks um are magnetic and pop out as well uh so it's going to be made probably out of some kind of half inch ply, finished with like decals and stuff like that. Don't kid yourself. This will not be cheap. It will be

extremely expensive, but it's the kind of thing that I just really want to do. So we're just going to do it and then we're going to see what happens. Just like bad, bad CEO things. see what happens. Just like bad, bad CEO things. I have no idea what the market for this product is, but we're going to make it anyway. All right. Okay. Okay. For real. Bye guys. I'm stopping the stream now. Bye. Oh wait. Yeah. I didn't show the power supply there's a power supply too power supply is uh up in the top and it snaps into the magnets in the top that one needs to be super strong we wanted to do bottom mounted power supply but there was no way to do the 24 and the 8 pin and keep them under six inches so we had to do top mounted power supply go with the modern design okay for real i'm done now i'm done talking about this really exciting product that i'm super excited about

so cool I'm done now. I'm done talking about this really exciting product that I'm super excited about. So cool.