The WAN Show - NVIDIA Keeps Disappointing Gamers - WAN Show September 25 , 2020

Starting point is 00:00:00 You know what's great about ambition? You can't see it. Some things look ambitious, but looks can be deceiving. For example, a runner could be training for a marathon, or they could be late for the bus. You never know. Ambition is on the inside. So that goal to beat your personal best?

Starting point is 00:00:21 Keep chasing it. Drive your ambition. Mitsubishi Motors. It it signed me out of google right when i went to refresh the live page i can't tell if we're live thank you for that youtube i don't see it and welcome to the lag show ladies and gentlemen we have a fantastic show for you guys today i'm gonna tell you all about it once my google docs signs back in there it is nvidia's bonched launch bonched launch launch ampere we've got 3080s shipping without boxes we've got crashing games we've got a titan

Starting point is 00:01:01 class disappointment in the form of the 3090 this was written by uh one of one of the writers put this put this headline this intentionally sensationalist headline we're going to talk about some of the challenges that nvidia has gone through launching their ampere graphics cards in other small and inconsequential news microsoft buys xenomax for 7.5 billion dollars yes my friends small and inconsequential the days of independent developers are over but that's old news now the days of large enormous conglomerate developers are also over it's it's all just gonna be one developer uh what else what else we got luke i uh i also got signed out of the doc right after you did so i am working on that right now fantastic why don't i just do two more big navi may be faster than the rtx 3080 that's right my friends we've got more hype train news for an amd graphics card color me really skeptical and in other news

Starting point is 00:02:09 spotify tile proton mail and base camp join epic against apple they're calling it the coalition for app fairness or the calf the calf just hope it don't get slaughtered I feel like we weren't invited I rolled the intro already oh nice I'm going to turn up the volume people have been complaining about the volume of the intro

Starting point is 00:02:41 there you go you guys like that intro volume? Okay. You good? We good? You okay? You guys okay now? Show is brought to you today by the SteelSeries Rival 3 Wireless. Wow. I don't think we've worked with SteelSeries in a long time. That's sweet. They're back. Everyone comes crawling back. sweet they're back everyone comes crawling back vessi footwear and of course ridge wallet that's right if you drop your wallet off a ridge you want one that's gonna survive the fall i don't think you survive the fall yeah um also and i were talking about this is this is off topic i'll try to make it quick sure also and i were talking about highlander and i brought up how i've been like trying to brainstorm a new one for years but i've never thought of something that's like really actually

Starting point is 00:03:32 cool oh no what are you pitching me right now an interesting idea and he said he would be in for it i don't know it's got you know, but an interesting idea. Could be going to Death Valley where it's obscenely hot. The world's hottest LAN party. And we try to keep all the PCs running. Because it gets like 50 degrees there, doesn't it? It gets real freaking hot. And you could even set it up as maybe a competition,

Starting point is 00:04:06 like a benchmarking competition. That's very interesting. So the thing is, I actually had the concept a long time ago. Like I probably talked to you about this way back in the day of doing like a, like kind of like an expose because when you, when you design a device, because when you design a device, so many, many manufacturers are guilty of this. When you design a device to basically ride its thermal throttling limit, you are inherently introducing inconsistencies in the customer experience.

Starting point is 00:04:37 Because if I'm someone who lives in Yukon or Alaska or something, my experience with, let's say a mobile phone, for example, for many months out of the year might be one of higher performance and yet lower battery compared to someone who lives in Arizona or somewhere along the equator. And so I had actually, it was just such an ambitious project that I never got around to doing it but what i had wanted to do was take like like a half a dozen phones phones were what i was really focused on at the time uh but you could do it just as easily with laptops or desktops for that matter take half a dozen devices and then like benchmark them in real world conditions because obviously you

Starting point is 00:05:21 could just buy a thermal chamber or whatever and you know adjust the humidity on your on your chamber and you could you could simulate it that way manufacturers do that obviously but the idea of like traveling around the world and seeing you know uh one of the things i wanted to investigate was whether different regional versions of askew might actually even be tuned differently because i've heard of things like that like the the taiwanese version of some phone being uh more optimized to deal with high humidity for example but i've never seen like concrete proof that that's like an industry-wide thing that happens at any appreciable scale so it was i had an idea that's like sort of related to that but the idea of going down there and making it like a land party or like a like a like a competition type thing that's pretty cool i i like i like the idea because like

Starting point is 00:06:12 if you do like if you do separate teams and each team can bring their own rig maybe it has to hit certain specifications or you have a certain budget. I don't know, but each team can bring their own rig and their own like countermeasures. You could maybe go with like a fixed case or you have to use a tent test bench or something and you can't do a covering. So you can't get away from the sun. That was something Austin brought up. And it's a very good point that like shade would just be super imbalanced. So can't allow shade and your,

Starting point is 00:06:44 your parts have to be exposed or whatever yeah there can't be any cheating in that way but how however you decided to your cooling blah blah could be really really cool and then you just brought up another thing i don't know how the competition would tie into this but you could take the same rigs in the same parts or whatever and go to alaska yeah totally totally be like all sub-zero to you know 50 degrees above zero or whatever like the temperature delta of those systems would be just obscene i know right like how how fast does an rtx 3080 go in death valley you know yeah yeah that'd be really cool and like you could you could center the trip around that but you could do other things while you're there too.

Starting point is 00:07:25 You could take MacBooks that notoriously thermal throttle. Nick Light's messaging me. He's like, lttstore.com sun hats, Highlander edition. Thanks, Nick. That was 100% worth pinging the entire thousands of people watching with a Teams notification. Thank you for that. Thank you for that, Nick Light.

Starting point is 00:07:44 Crumstifer has a psa for me in the youtube chat it's 2020 linus and stop calling things dank um this lower third like banner thing that you're looking at is quite literally four years old so uh that's that's why that's why hasn't been updated uh pretty dank super chat dude thanks for thanks for uh yeah thanks for calling in it wasn't super chat actually i just uh i just thought it was i thought it was very funny i thought it was very well it would have been more dank if it was a super chat yeah yeah come on apparently dank is still dank according to avalanche master that's a great username um all right so why don't we jump into our first topic here nvidia's bonched ampere launch

Starting point is 00:08:25 you guys clicked on this you want to know you want to punch it you guys want to know how nvidia has disappointed gamers well it sure as heck isn't with their performance and it sure as heck isn't with their pricing gamers are pretty into that right about now well on the 3080 in particular where they're disappointing people is actually getting any 3080s in the hands of these non-disappointed gamers gamers are not crash once you get them and having them not crash so this is kind of like three news stories in one but the 3000 series launch has been fraught with issues. First, low availability, thanks to scalper bots, and now so much more. RTX 3080s have been reportedly shipping from Newegg

Starting point is 00:09:10 in what is called OEM packaging. So in other words, the bare card wrapped in bubble wrap and then thrown into a shipping box. Just a loose box. Yeah, so OEM packaging is pretty common for things like um way okay way back in the day way back in the day um when ace attack first launched the lclc so the first closed loop like all-in-one cooler the only way to get it uh brands like corsair hadn't launched their rebranded or derivative products yet so the only only way to get it, because I saw it

Starting point is 00:09:45 and I was like, big water cooling nerd. I was like, wow, we could like water cool all our pre-built systems. This would be sick. It's going to be the next big thing. So the only way to get it was to contact Asetek, order a container of them, and they would all just come in, well, OEM packaging, which means it's designed for an OEM. And an OEM in this context means someone who plans to add their own retail packaging solution, their own instructions, their own accessories and decals and whatever the case may be. So silly me, without really giving any thought to how it was actually going to get done, I ordered this entire gigantic thing of these Asetek LCLCs, realized that because no one really knew about them, they weren't going to just order systems with them in it, and

Starting point is 00:10:37 also our system volume wasn't really that high. And so I ended up actually cutting up the Oem packaging which was like multiple lclcs per box with like foam i ended up cutting up a lot of the oem packaging like cutting the foam and then i sourced boxes and then i had to like put it in there and like salvage other foam and like make my own packaging for these lclcs that we ended up spending like the next very long time uh selling we did eventually we did get rid of them we didn't lose money but there was some sweat blood and tears of mine that went into making that a sort of successful launch and it was only sort of successful because by the time corsair launched the h50 uh did they call yeah i think they called the h50 um with like the same price and you know way

Starting point is 00:11:27 better instructions and stuff uh yeah it sort of looked like a looked like a bad call looked kind of a bad call anyway the point is um someone over at new egg is having a similar experience they got some oem cards up in here uh there's a there's a bubble wrapped bubble wrap can you imagine getting something like an rtx 3080 skip to the next picture the next one like in the dock or i know in in the reddit thread there should be an arrow to the right oh well i don't even i don't even read it luke you know that i never read it did you uh the the like io plate is bent oh that's rough there you go it should still work actually it should but still like that's not what you want to show up when you buy a super premium product like that

Starting point is 00:12:13 seven hundred dollar graphics card that's not you dropped money on that it shows up with no box no like and i can bet this guy's not gonna read the the instruction manual, but like he doesn't have it. So it doesn't feel like the premium experience that you just paid for. And it's like literally damaged. Even if it does work, it's literally damaged. Yeah. He might have already flipped his previous card in order to afford this purchase. Now he might have to, I don't know,

Starting point is 00:12:40 RMA this or something in order to get one that's like not partially borked. Jacob from EVga gave an assessment on the nvidia subreddit saying that a very very small number of cards look to have been shipped from new egg in bulk i wonder what the point of new egg having any bulk graphics cards is though like they did away with their system integrator ages ago they used to abs i think it was called um but they don't have one anymore like the only reason i can think of to ship cards in bulk like that is to an si who's going to essentially package it into a complete system like what are they even doing does new egg do their own builds

Starting point is 00:13:17 guys let me know if i'm just totally off base on this here you go take a look i mean i i'm fairly sure that new egg abs systems i'm fairly sure that's dead abs gaming desktop oh whoa holy hey hold on a second doesn't look good it doesn't have his own website anymore but it looks like abs uh is a thing still being sold through new egg yeah how about that all right well it shows you shows you what i know they tried to stop it but the abs kicked in wait no no hold on no that would just stop it faster darn it okay uh wait how can i salvage this nope i think we're done here um so anthony put a note on the dock that says i'm not sure who at the warehouse would

Starting point is 00:14:05 have thought it was appropriate to ship a card loose like that yeah let me fill you in on a little something anthony i'm generalizing a little bit here and i there's a lot of people there's a lot of people in in this especially this climate that are probably brilliant people who care a lot and are stuck in a dead-end job in a warehouse. But there's also a lot of people working in a warehouse because, quite frankly, they don't have either the cares or the mental fortitude to do pretty much anything else. I remember watching someone off of at least four rungs up an A-frame ladder, grab a box, an entire master carton of optical drives, and toss it down onto the concrete floor instead of carrying it down.

Starting point is 00:14:53 I saw that happen, and I was like, what are you doing? Someone said in the chat, minimum wage, minimum effort, and like, yeah. it's not necessarily a great attitude to have if you want to rise up. But I think that that type of approach is taken a lot.

Starting point is 00:15:14 And having worked those types of jobs, as I think most of us have, you definitely see a lot of it. And like, not my problem is another big one that's going to be pushed so like if they're told to ship this thing and it comes down the line it doesn't have a box i suspect a lot of the approach is going to be like well i gotta fill my orders yep well part of the okay so i i agree with you that in condemning minimum wage minimum effort absolutely Because a lot of what we look for in people is very strong passion for what they're doing. And we love rewarding that. Absolutely love it. The problem, though, is that not every company has that attitude. And so aside from like, so so so yes,

Starting point is 00:15:58 100% condemn minimum wage, minimum effort. But that's a systemic problem where people are basically reduced to the quota that they're supposed to fill and essentially you know treated like like okay like you can't expect an employee to view the relationship as anything other than transactional right like you can't expect them to see anything other than the paycheck if you don't see anything other than the number of widgets they stuff in a box and kick out the door. That's your problem. There's no relationship. So you can't be like, look, you need to value the company and care about the company and care about the customer. I don't give a f*** about the customer. What's the customer ever done for me? The customer pays you. They don't pay me. So I can see where this attitude can come from

Starting point is 00:16:48 if you are creating a culture, like a work culture of only valuing output. And the problem is like, I see it from both sides. I really do. Like I worked at a volume business e-tail organization for years. And now I'm on the other side of it, working as the boss of an organization

Starting point is 00:17:10 of three dozen plus people. And from my perspective, the only thing, you guys got to understand this, the only thing that pays our bills and pays our staff's paychecks is views. That's it. At the end of the day, everything else is derived from views. Where do views come from? From videos. We have quotas. We have targets. You guys ever noticed that Linus Tech Tips uploads a video every day,

Starting point is 00:17:46 come hell or high water? You ever noticed TechWiki uploads a video once every two to four days, excuse me, three to four days, two videos per week, come hell or high water? You notice TechLink goes up every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, regardless of whether it's a vacation day or whatever the case may be. To be clear, those people do get the time off, just not on that day we schedule around it. The point is that that ain't an accident. You have to have quotas. You just also have to make sure that people see the value of their work and the value of themselves in ways that aren't just money, or it's always going to be purely

Starting point is 00:18:22 transactional and you can expect to get out exactly what you put in um and from the flip side you know as long as you're putting in exactly what you feel like you're being paid for me i as an employer will never give you more with that said a lot of employers will never give you more regardless so i can see where a lot of that jaded attitude absolutely comes from 100 and the funny thing thing is when you've been working that job for like an obscenely long amount of time or something, because I know like from my experience, what I would say is like, I got a lot of opportunities and a lot of jobs and stuff very early on.

Starting point is 00:18:58 Like, especially when I was working at like Best Buy and stuff, I'm talking like real early on. Yeah. By like pushing really hard to try to and stuff. I'm talking like real early on. Yeah. By like pushing really hard to try to do well. I had I had customers try to hire me on the spot. Okay, like there was because usually people in those positions just don't care. Yeah. So if you try to show that you do care, your your fellow employees, years down the line might be in a position where they need

Starting point is 00:19:23 someone and they might remember you and they might want to bring you up that's not always going to be the situation you might be in a situation where there isn't a single person you work with that you would ever want to call you up down the line yep and etc and you might be stuck in a dead-end job forever where your boss doesn't care etc etc i've got an example of that um so the the guy who does the fulfillment for lttstore.com, lttstore.com, is actually one of the old warehouse guys from NCIX. So he broke off. He started up his own thing. And he just like reached out randomly.

Starting point is 00:19:56 He's like, hey, bro, just letting you know, like I'm doing this. Got no idea if this is relevant. At the time it wasn't. And I was like, sweet, dude. I remember working with you. You're sweet. You're awesome. And then all of a sudden we, we like, I think we like cut it off with Teespring or something like that. Cause something made me mad or something. And, and, um, I was

Starting point is 00:20:17 like, Hey, we, we, you know what, we're just going to take everything in house. And I don't mean in house directly in our house, but we're going to take control over how we handle our merch. And we called them up and we basically figured out if we could integrate Shopify with their system and we could. And all of a sudden, they are shipping thousands of packages a month for us. And it's like, that is not insignificant amounts of money anymore so he turned a positive impression with a former co-worker into it's a thing man a revenue stream yeah so never underestimate the power of networking basically is sort of one of the lessons here another thing i would say as i don't know why we're on this topic for so long,

Starting point is 00:21:05 but another thing I would say, having done this myself, is like until you're a boss, there's going to be a lot of things that you do that you think are like clever or fine or whatever. And then you end up figuring out down the line that you're just a super douche. And Lannis is just smiling.

Starting point is 00:21:30 Who are you talking about, Luke? Me, I'm talking about me. 100%. I've done so much stuff that like, oh my God, I don't know how you still talk to me at all. There's things that like, I'll be like trying to fall asleep. And I know this is like a meme, but you're like trying to fall asleep. And then your brain's just like, hey, remember that thing you did?

Starting point is 00:21:49 You're just like, oh, God, there's so many of those things. Try to reduce those things, you know, for your own sake and whoever is your current boss, because, oh, my God, I was I was having I was having like I don't remember why I was like, I was having like, I don't remember why I was like reflecting on, you know, my past, you know, my life a little while back. But I, there's this person in high school that I was always just mean to for no reason, no reason whatsoever. I was just, I think the thing that made me think of it this particular

Starting point is 00:22:26 time was I read a tweet that I don't know how credible it was or whatever, but I read a tweet from someone who claims to know someone who claims to have gone to high school with me and that I was a douche. And I thought, you know what, there's a lot of people who wouldn't have agreed with that sentiment. And there's even more people who would have been like, Linus who? I was not I was not popular or anything. But there was like, at least a couple of people who I was like, yeah, I would have absolutely deserved that description. And what I decided to do was because it was something that had come up with me like that I had thought of a lot of times. I was like, it has been 15 years, but I'm going to look them up on Facebook and I'm going to be like, hey, sorry about that. And it was actually one of the most like I realize it's like kind of selfish of me to even think about it this way to think about it in terms of like, how much it helped me because obviously, it wasn't

Starting point is 00:23:29 about me. But I felt so much better. Like it was it was crazy. This is someone I haven't seen in 15 years had really no relationship to speak of with them, even when I did know them, because like, obviously, we didn't hang out um but I was just like hey I don't even know if you remember me but if you do it's probably not great and I'm really sorry and they were like yeah I remember you and no it wasn't and uh but she was like it's okay you know we were all we were all dumb kids and uh I forgive you and I was like, it's okay. You know, we were all, we were all dumb kids and, uh, I forgive you. And I was like, wow, you are super cool. And if you were always that cool, then I feel even worse. Um, I don't know if she was always that cool, but I think,

Starting point is 00:24:18 I think one of the biggest things for me growing up, like my, my tastes haven't changed much. The things I like doing for fun haven't changed much. All that kind of stuff. I think I'm young at heart in a lot of ways, but I think probably the main one is that I like consider the actual ramifications and the actual impact on other people of my actions more. Because I think I didn't do that very much in the past. You're a boundary pusher, which is, I think, why I have such a soft spot for you. I recognize it and I have a lot of patience for it because I see my own path in it. And, you know, I like to think that at some point, you know, everyone kind of wakes up and goes, hey, you know, when

Starting point is 00:25:07 the point of, you know, making a request, for example, hey, can I expense this pack of gummy bears or whatever, whatever it is, the point is not whether the other person will say yes or no. The point is whether I should ask in the first place. Yeah. And like, you know, that can have such an impact on a relationship. And you don't necessarily know a lot of the time and stuff too. No, and no, you don't know. And a lot of not knowing is just not thinking about it. Yeah. And the gummy bear example,

Starting point is 00:25:38 I don't think was actually Luke, by the way. That was someone else. They know who they are. Did you ever try and expense candy? I never intentionally did i think a receipt might have gone through at one point yeah uh anyway the point is like you know we we we've all we were a very small company at the time and so it was like we tried to kind of focus on essentials like i would never buy bottled water at an airport you know like i would make sure i carry a water bottle so i can fill it at the water fountain and carry it onto the plane

Starting point is 00:26:10 and like so you know i tried to have a i used to have a camel pack and i would like steal water anywhere i could that i knew was like fresh and good and fill my camel pack so i wouldn't have to buy bottles anyway like at ces and stuff yeah yeah 100 um so like i tried to lead by example so for me part of it was just like this is like it would disappoint me when people kind of didn't get it um i did see i did see a comment in the chat linus was a bully lol i never really had the kind of clout or influence to be a bully. I would probably describe it more as small dog syndrome. Like I was always kind of underfoot. And so I would lash out at people who I wouldn't even describe them as like lower down the

Starting point is 00:26:58 totem pole than me even. Like it was just I guess I would lash out at people sometimes who I didn't think would fight back. Like I was not always very nice. And that is definitely the textbook case of a bully, but I wasn't by any stretch like a, like a career bully. I mostly just minded my own business. Um, there were just some, some mistakes that I absolutely made a very, very poor poor poor judgment um and yeah it was just it was lame and i feel better now we had some small talk you know she's got kids now i got kids got that common ground um you know we're not going to be besties or anything obviously but it was it was definitely it was definitely helpful yeah i just hope like you know and like

Starting point is 00:27:46 as a parent i just hope my kids don't have to do that but they will they'll probably be a lot of it's part of just like growing up and staking out your territory and stuff like yeah and you can't like understand properly that that's like really not a way to treat people until you've done that. If that makes sense. Like I, I was never a bully. I don't think there's a single person from my school that would call me a

Starting point is 00:28:14 bully, but I was also really big compared to other people and never really understood that very well. So every once in a while I would like do something thinking it was like funny. And then someone would get like hurt and I'd be like holy i didn't mean to do that i'm sorry yeah there was only one time that you really scared me that i can think of i don't know maybe there's more than once but there was definitely one time one time you really scared the pants off me i don't forget

Starting point is 00:28:43 what i did i don't forget what I did. I don't forget what I did. I did something to you, whether it was like spraying you in the face with a water gun or something, but it was in the back alley behind the old house that we used to work out of. And I got it in my head that my strat to get away from you,

Starting point is 00:29:01 because I had a pretty good head start, my strat to get away was I was going to scale the fence, which i thought you'd probably have more difficulty than me getting over and then i would be able to go hide that was pretty much my thought process so i did something to you and i booked it and you caught up to me so fast and we're i think you pulled me down off the fence or something like that and i was like huh so if i ever actually crossed this guy he would not only take down my website delete my youtube channel he could probably also kill me pretty quickly that's good to know i think more ceos should work shoulder to shoulder with their staff who are much bigger than them

Starting point is 00:29:47 it might give them less of a god complex okay yeah I'm like usually the big guy in the room and then we have a meetup and I figure out that not one but two of my employees are bigger than I like Jaden's taller than me and then Jonathan is actually a giant Jaden's a stick though no offense Jaden I think you could take him poor poor jayden all right all right we should uh we should continue talking about nvidia's nvidia's disappointment here all right so if that weren't enough nvidia's store website has been found leaking personal information upon realizing this nvidia closed the store page in question while they tried to figure out what's going on oof then making matters worse third party rtx 3080s from the likes of um msi zotac and evga have been apparently users of our own forum have been experiencing

Starting point is 00:30:41 crashes no not the linus tech tips.com Wow, this is like a five-page thread and stuff. Dang. Okay. So the issue appears to show up in certain groups of games when the boost clock exceeds two gigahertz. Early observations show that once clocks reach a certain speed, the game crashes to desktop-like clockwork. Ha ha ha.

Starting point is 00:31:04 Got him. There's currently no official statement from any board partner, but Computerbase has confirmed that they are in contact with the manufacturers and have been unable to reproduce the issue themselves. It's not clear why it's happening with speculation around power supplies,

Starting point is 00:31:18 software, or driver bugs, or even aggressive factory overclocks from board partners trying to compete with Founders Edition. Now, I'm actually kind of tempted. Where's my, where the crap is my phone? I'm kind of tempted to give Anthony a call because he was actually having some crashing issues with our first 3080. And I think that he, it was either just that game never got working or he might've actually resolved it by switching power supplies, even though theoretically the power supply we had

Starting point is 00:31:46 had ample capacity for the RTX 3080. Let me just get him on the line while I run through a couple more notes here. So Igor's lab said it's plausibly a result of power filtering design variation for the GPU's die. Hey, Anthony, you're on WAN show. Is that cool? Are you like off work right now or what? I mean, I'm in the car, but it's okay. Okay, he's you're on WAN Show. Is that cool? Are you like off work right now or what? I mean, I'm in the car, but it's okay. Okay, he's in the car. So that's good. Sorry, sorry, I had to get that in there. Let me let me just turn up the volume. Sorry, I'm bumping the mic. Let me turn up the volume a little bit. So if you have to quite so close to the mic. Okay, so hey, Anthony, did we ever figure out why our 3080 founders was crashing at first when you were working on the review

Starting point is 00:32:25 uh i'm trying to think now it's a rough week for him yeah a rough couple of weeks i mean nvidia back to back yeah anyway um i think it was the memory speed on the CPU that was causing the problem. So not probably related to the crashing to desktop that people are seeing? Probably not, though we did have that power supply thing with 850 watts. Yeah, where theoretically 850 watts is lots, especially for a 308080 and yet here we are yeah apparently it's something to do with the transient response and the power supply uh over current protection tripping yada yada etc etc got it all right cool thanks anthony appreciate you later

Starting point is 00:33:18 um all right so blah blah blah so monolithic conductive polymer tantalum solid capacitors are being used more often on the boards that have been implicated which is interesting so so far crash free are asus and nvidia's founders editions and they use groups of smaller multi-layer ceramic chip capacitors or a mix of both. Igor's lab indicates that MLCCs offer better filtering. So users on Reddit are, of course, compiling lists of cards with MLCC groups versus poscaps, but that probably doesn't tell the whole story. J from J's Two Cents, he's an okay guy, I guess, reported that electronics engineers on Reddit are cautioning against oversimplifying the problem here.

Starting point is 00:34:04 Each type of capacitor has their pros and cons, and the only inherent difference between the two that might be relevant at the moment is that POS caps perform worse at high frequencies, and cards that use POS caps could have other filtering down the line before they get to the GPU to compensate anyway. So it's a developing story. If you've got one that crashes, don't like, or no, so if you've got one, don't check your GPU and get mad you've got POS caps. It could be fine. But that's not the only third-party problem either.

Starting point is 00:34:33 Some board partners have also been accused of selling slower cards at the same price as Founders Editions in order to differentiate their higher-end SKUs that they can sell for more. Womp, womp, womp. So this was posted by Spiderman64 over on the forum. And one of the examples was the Zotac 3080 Trinity model. That is pretty rough.

Starting point is 00:35:00 The card is designed to perform worse than Founders Edition so Zotac could differentiate it from the higher end models they're planning to put out i mean funky huh by the way there's been some comments about this i am sure he was on a hands-free device probably a like answer call through your steering wheel thing i'm sure he wasn't holding his phone to his head oh anthony gets a ride for his so oh there you go passenger seat yeah so there's there's no way he was driving i like actually know that for a fact you know far far too much about uh about a lot like it's funny you like

Starting point is 00:35:35 i had like dinner with like pella's parents at one point like it's like weird because especially in our business of making videos that a lot of the time are about telling personal stories we end up telling the personal stories of my staff because eventually i run out of personal stories about me um so we were making a video about uh whether a tinfoil hat would actually like block your brain waves oh yeah and as it happens Pella's mom is something of an enthusiast when it comes to that stuff so we drove over to the island and she had like all this gear for like measuring it like rf like ambient rf and like all this kind of stuff and i was like wow this is crazy this is

Starting point is 00:36:26 great um sorry what were you gonna say uh i've had dinner with jayden his mom see it just kind of happens right i think smaller companies you you just kind of you become yeah you're a little bit more entwined i kind of miss it sometimes you, like we're at the point now where we're big enough that the only reason that I know anything about like one of our new editors, Nicole, is because I've been desperate for a ride home a couple of times and she happens to go my way. And like, it's the funny because like, I don't have the close relationship with her that I'd feel like I could just be like, Hey, yo, I need a ride. Like if it was you and it's like 20 minutes out of your way, I'd just be like, you know,

Starting point is 00:37:09 let's go, bro. Um, whereas that's someone that like is kind of relatively new here. And I always feel like as CEO, um, I, I, I need to be so careful what I ask people, what I ask of people. Because if I ask them to do me a personal favor and they feel like their professional position working under me makes it so they can't say no, I could accidentally cause someone to like, you know, miss an important family event or something because I just needed a ride when it honestly wasn't that urgent because I could have just borrowed the work truck. I just didn't want to drive in separately the next morning

Starting point is 00:37:51 so it would be nice if I could get a ride. You know what I mean? I don't want to put people in a position where they feel burdened. But then the flip side of it is without those personal interactions, just like driving in the car together, you're never going to get to know the person. So how do you fix that when the company gets bigger and bigger?

Starting point is 00:38:11 I don't know. Sorry, this is like very off topic. It's just sort of sort of related to what we were talking about earlier. I have no idea. I don't have the viewer like chart open right now. I have no idea if people find this interesting. Apparently they do. So there you go.

Starting point is 00:38:23 We're going to stay the course, boys. But yeah, I just don't really have a solution to that like luke and i worked shoulder to shoulder hip to hip for wow over a long time yeah like a couple years before i was ever even his boss formally like i was like sort of his boss but also like we both worked for the man at that time so there's already this like camaraderie that that exists um whereas the bigger we get the more separated i am from everything like i don't even i don't even interview people anymore people literally start their first day at linus media group now and i have never exchanged a word with them and so it's like kind of awkward a little bit because I'm not used to it yeah for sure I would I would be very not used to that as well and it's gonna be weird like yeah I don't know

Starting point is 00:39:19 like you haven't been in the office for six months it would be you wouldn't recognize me yeah yeah it would be extremely foreign like have you and i'm assuming people have moved and stuff too like desk locations like oh yeah everyone's all over the place like yeah so it would be very weird have you even met nicole i don't think no i don't think okay do you remember hoffman from his first stint yeah okay yeah yeah all right he's okay yeah it doesn't matter the point is that the rtx 3090 launch reviews ended up being pretty underwhelming to many with performance high but not in line with the extra cost and there's a bunch of other notes here but can i start by saying was anybody surprised by this like maybe yeah maybe maybe i've just gotten jaded maybe that's why i didn't you know ream on this enough in our review because what you all what

Starting point is 00:40:16 you guys see when you see a gpu review is you see anthony's testing and his script after he and I have spent, in some cases, as little as 20 minutes, and in other cases, as much as a couple of hours going through and adjusting it and analyzing and discussing and changing the flow and editing it. That's what you guys see. And between the two of us, of us again maybe we're just so cynical now that we're just like well yeah of course the top tier one costs some ungodly amount of money that nobody can afford maybe we're just so jaded so cynical that we just didn't even think to complain about it because what were you expecting and videoVIDIA was very clear that RTX 3080 is the top of the line and RTX 3090 is this because we can product.

Starting point is 00:41:13 Like look at the thing. It's only 20% faster and yet draws up to 500 watts at peak. They are clearly absolutely pushing the limit of their engineering just because they can. Who was expecting it to be bang for the buck? Who? Where are you? Stand up so I can slap you. Like, what did you think was going to happen? Luke, were you expecting the 3090 to be a great value? gonna happen luke were you expecting the 3090 to be a great value uh i was highly concerned about the card in general i guess because i i and they they kind of did it again but i i had remembered when they were talking about performance numbers and they're being very vague with them and they were actually talking about specifically the vr performance numbers and they're being very vague with them and they were actually talking about specifically the vr performance numbers but they didn't really disclose that this time around

Starting point is 00:42:10 they didn't disclose that super clearly yeah and this time around they did the same thing and it was like yeah okay cool and i tried to call that out and people were like no dude no there's no way okay this is great this is great half empty mug says they marketed a workstation card to gamers do you remember the 690 do you remember the 690 remember okay so 690 690 is really funny because nvidia explicitly said in the keynote this is not a card for gamers. And then, and then, do you know what they did? They had banners on newegg.com, okay, that were like the ultimate card for gaming. How dare they? You know what the cold hard truth is? NVIDIA's marketing, as far as I can tell, is as much about what people want them to say as it is about what's actually

Starting point is 00:43:05 relevant. Because the fact of the matter is, the kind of customer I have talked, I have spoken, not just spoken with, I have got, this is really funny, I don't know if I've ever talked about this, I have gone to the houses of these kinds of customers because that was, I gave NCIX way way too much value for their money like thinking back to it i had a customer that bought one of our very very high-end water-cooled systems and he had some kind of problem with it and literally without the company even knowing i was doing with doing it which i'm sure is like a problem in some way or other i literally got in my car, drove to his house, fixed it, and then like went home at the end of the day. Like I went in the evening and like fixed his computer and then went home. Anyway, I, where was I going with this? Shoot. Right. So the point is i have spoken to these customers so the kinds of people there's there's

Starting point is 00:44:07 there's only one kind of person that buys a product like this there's the kind or there's two kinds of people there's the kinds that like just want the absolute best performance so someone who is really after every competitive edge where 20% different performance basically means 20% faster frame times. Sign me up. I'll take it. That's number one. Those are pretty rare. Those are pretty rare.

Starting point is 00:44:34 Number two is the same kind of person who shows up at the car dealership, doesn't even ask what all the different packages are, and is basically like, I don't even want to talk about it packages are. And it's basically like, I don't even want to talk about it unless it's a fully loaded model. You know what I mean? I want the one with all the features.

Starting point is 00:44:51 It doesn't matter what those features are. I don't know. I might need it someday. I don't want to have that stress in my life that maybe I missed out on some feature that I might've liked to use. And I can afford to not have that stress. Take my money.

Starting point is 00:45:06 I'll pick it up and whenever I'll pick it up tomorrow because you'll have it ready because I just bought the fully loaded model and that's how I swagger. That's the other kind. And those are the kinds of people to whom, you know, the difference between a $700 graphics card and a $1,500 graphics card is frankly not that much. Because think about it this way. They already bought the Threadripper, whatever $2,000 CPU and the $700 motherboard and the $1,000 worth of high-speed memory

Starting point is 00:45:39 and the $800 power supply. They are already spending five grand on this system. So let's do some real fun math here, this system. So let's do some real fun math here, ladies and gentlemen. Let's do some real fun math. If I'm already spending $5,000, what is another, what does that work out to? 800? Is that $1,500 for the 3090? So 800 divided by five thousand dollars well 16 so when you're already spending that kind of money well 16 for another 15 to 20 performance uplift it's a no-brainer it's just a completely different class of system that's the thing that people are trying to wrap their brains around and not really realizing, I think, is that for that customer, it does make sense. And you can say it's still

Starting point is 00:46:34 too expensive, and that's fine, which is why NVIDIA has more than one product. Go buy something else. That's just the way that it is. The yields on that card are definitely going to be lower. The cost, the R&D that went into creating that card in the first place, given that it's going to be a lower volume model, is going to be proportionally higher on a per card basis. And there's the fact that this is NVIDIA. If they think they can charge more for it, they will. What did you think was going to happen? They think they can charge more for it. They will.

Starting point is 00:47:04 What did you think was going to happen? There. That's my thought on it. I will now look at my notes and see what I was supposed to say. Any thoughts, Luke? It seems like you've been working on something over there. Is there a crisis? A little bit. No, there's something cool.

Starting point is 00:47:19 Oh, okay. Oplane chat has pop out now. Finally. It was updated and it now works. You might have to refresh the page. Oh, I'm excited. Okay, cool. All right, now I can use that when I'm doing my VR streams,

Starting point is 00:47:34 I hope, if I ever get them working again. All right, so let me have a look at what I was supposed to say. So, workstation performance was crippled thanks to NVIDIA locking off Titan driver optimizations on the 3090, directing users to buy a Titan or a Quadro instead, despite having introduced the card as Titan class. That was lame, and we called them out for that. I didn't like that either. This is only compounded by the leaked 20 gig version of the RTX 3080, which in our testing and by NVIDIA's own admission is only 10 to 15% slower than the 3090,

Starting point is 00:48:06 making that card's main advantage, which is its 24 gigs of memory, much less appealing for those who can wait a little while. Like we're planning to upgrade our workstations. We were running into problems with our previous 2080 Supers just running out of VRAM. The editors are running out of video memory. And we actually had planned to go Quadro P6000. So we were going to go, because they have 24 gigs of RAM,

Starting point is 00:48:30 which is what we found is a really good sweet spot for some of the work that we do. And that was going to be a pretty significant compute performance hit. That's like two generations. So hold on a second. We got our Turing. We got our Pascal.

Starting point is 00:48:44 We got our Volta. We got pascal we got our uh volta we got uh yeah so we're going oh wait no turing bloody hell ampere turing uh volta and then all the way to pascal so that's four generations old at this point um but yeah if we could just go rtx 3080 that would be great that'd be freaking awesome we were planning to go 3090 but we might not have to uh in fact actually oh apparently we're just pivoting to we're talking about the leaked card so galax has leaked their own 20 gig variant along with rtx 3060 as shown in a photograph of a galax company meeting in China. Oh, this is terrific. Here we go. Here we go, ladies and gentlemen. 3090, 3080 20 gig, 3080 10 gig, PG 142 SKU 0. What is that?

Starting point is 00:49:39 3070 and 3060. I am so jazzed for 3070 and 3060 like look at this a 3060 class card they're expecting to be in line with rtx 2080 like what that's pretty fantastic yeah like that could be a like 399 like 349 even card should i should i hope for 299 probably not it's probably not gonna happen it's probably gonna be i feel like they're trying to move away from that but that would be very cool i'm gonna guess i'm gonna guess 349 um all right and so some people are are mad because you know the high high memory versions of those other cards would eat into the rtx 3090s market position for all but 8K gaming, which is only possible on a few optimized titles unless you use DLSS 2.0. I mean, the thing about the whole 8K gaming thing is like,

Starting point is 00:50:36 it's in the same, it's along the same lines as something like RTX last time around, where it's capable of it. But yes, you're asking for some stars to align in order to really have that experience. Personally, I found it absolutely exciting from just a technological standpoint. And yes, Doom Eternal is an extraordinarily well-optimized game, but that doesn't mean it's not a pretty one. That gaming experience, particularly Doom Eternal, was unlike anything I have ever done. And I have tried basically everything at this point. So should we look at Nvidia and say, you guys are bad bad boys marketing this card as 8K gaming capable, when what they have done is delivered a very powerful GPU with a ton of VRAM? Or should we turn to the game developers

Starting point is 00:51:31 and say, hey, that game looks gorgeous and runs great at 8K. Why doesn't yours? So it's a chicken and egg thing. Over the next few years, we might see better optimization of games because we're going to be targeting higher fidelity levels and higher resolutions for these next-gen consoles. And we might see, you know, speed bumps or like a next-gen, like an RTX 4000 series or whatever. And 8K gaming might happen for real. But for now, I really don't think NVIDIA is actually expecting a ton of people to run out and buy the card for 8k gaming and go buy a 30 000 tv to go with it i think for them it was just a big flex because it's something no one else can do and you know dang it if i was if i was jensen and i wanted to make a big flex i think

Starting point is 00:52:16 8k gaming might be it i get it if you have a marble stove maybe you just got to do some stuff yeah like like i i get it I get it. I get why they did it. And I'm not mad about it, but I can see why people are mad about it. Cause yeah, it's like a big flex, but all those people who are upset that they feel misled, ask yourself this, was it in, did it matter? Was it in any meaningful way? Were you going to buy one? Like I wouldn't even at my, even at my peak of spending all of my disposable income on tech there was no way i would buy something like that the closest i ever got the closest i ever got was i bought two 7800 gtx's because i found them on craigslist for an unbelievable deal from some guy who was like,

Starting point is 00:53:05 I'm kind of like sick of SLI. I want to like try Crossfire for a bit. So he was literally upgrading from two 7900 GTXs to two X1950 XTXs or something like that, or cross grading. It's not even an upgrade at that point. And he was getting rid of them for nothing because he just didn't feel like dealing with it. You can't give it away because then you get all the losers showing up and they like, they're just unreasonable, flaky people whenever you like post something for free. So he posted it for cheap because that's

Starting point is 00:53:33 when you get a serious buyer who's going to show up when they say they're going to show up and they don't waste your time. Um, so I show up, I buy these and like I ran them for like two or three days. That was it. Because I was so paranoid that some new leak was going to come out or some new product was going to come out that was going to devalue them or something. Maybe he knew something I didn't know and I needed to get rid of them because I had way too much money tied up in a part that was, I was worried was going to depreciate so fast. So yeah,

Starting point is 00:54:07 I, uh, on, on like to jump back a little bit in terms of like, I wouldn't buy one of these personally. I am very happy with my current 1440 P monitor and feel no need to upgrade. Exactly. Um,

Starting point is 00:54:22 and like what, what is exciting about new cards is better frame rates at that resolution at better qualities uh because i find like some really high fidelity games maintaining a minimum at 144 at maximum quality is still really freaking tough yeah need a little more grunt so like yeah i'll take the extra power for sure but like i don't i don't know i'm not i don't need that that that memory buffer marjoan says yes it does matter what these companies do impacts the whole market not really this what buyers what customers buy impacts the market. The reason RTX 3000 exists is because people didn't buy RTX 2000.

Starting point is 00:55:09 That's why. It's all about what the market will bear. Nothing else actually matters. Nvidia made a calculation that they were gonna make this RTX 3090 card for millionaires and the maximum performance at any cost crowd. And you're mad because you were never the customer for it anyway and all the people who were the customer for it they do not give a

Starting point is 00:55:33 that's all there is to it they're not mad they don't care because to them they have always marketed these cards like titans come on yeah titans were always marketed 8800 ultra 8800 ultra it's like 12 years ago or whatever how many years ago is that holy this whole time they've been like it's not for gamers but also a performance it's not for gamers though. Unless you can, unless you have a $30,000 TV boys. Yeah. That $30,000 TV. I'm kind of tempted to do a review of it. Should I do a review of it?

Starting point is 00:56:11 Cause I got a lot to say actually. It's, it's so ridiculous. Get this, get this. We actually did it. Get this. You cannot wall mount it.

Starting point is 00:56:23 It's $30,000 and it has less features than a three hundred dollar tv i could get at walmart you should just like troll them super hard and build a mount that comes over the wall but you still sit it on it oh my god i actually kind of love it hex it's like so patronizing it's not my fault you needed to explain to you i'm gonna get canceled aren't i Hex, it's like so patronizing. It's not my fault you needed to explain to you. I'm going to get canceled, aren't I? Oh my God, we should totally mount it on the wall. Anyway, the thing is so ridiculous because it's the kind of product that only exists

Starting point is 00:56:58 as like an art piece because anyone who can afford a $30,000 television clearly doesn't ask how much it costs. And honestly, they're not even buying it for the TV. They might not even watch it. They're probably too busy, you know, merging and taking over companies or doing whatever the crap else it is that they do. And there's a lot of people with a lot of money that never do anything. Okay. That's, that's fair. But, but they wouldn't necessarily buy this one because it's like, as far as I can tell, it's intended to be more of an art piece. Like, you can't mount it properly.

Starting point is 00:57:33 Like, that's ridiculous. You know, me, the pragmatic guy, like, look, that TV is sitting in our studio. I actually, I think we're supposed to send it back to NVIDIA? I actually don't know. I actually don't know i actually don't know what the plan is for that tv nick arranged the whole thing but i i didn't even ask if i could take it home where the heck would i put it it's 88 inches and it doesn't wall mount it has to sit on the ground the stand's not even high enough to be at a comfortable viewing height like it's obviously just a flex no one's buying that

Starting point is 00:58:07 for like the the viewing experience like if you have if you have that kind of money and you are actually an enthusiast you're actually an enthusiast you're pulling in anon from 10 15 years ago and you are building like a room like a home theater room and you're either going very high end projector or more realistically these days you're going with something like a samsung the wall like that is crazy stuff and you're spending like you know half a million million dollars on it like by the time you can spend 30 grand on a tv what's half a million dollars who cares what's the difference? Firestorm says,

Starting point is 00:58:49 Linus, you're not being fair to some of us. Answer me this. If you did video production and can't afford a brand new RTX Quadro 6000, would you buy the RTX 3090 or the RTX Titan? It's a no brainer. I would buy the 3090 because from that perspective, it's actually a great value.

Starting point is 00:59:05 But then why are you mad? What are you even talking about? It absolutely stomps all over those previous options for that particular workload. Now, I can see people being mad about the fact that RTX 3080 with 20 gigs of RAM is coming, but that ain't new either. There's always a new product coming that's going to devalue the one you have why are they oh that's why they're mad yeah that's why they're mad because they don't want to i don't think that's reasonable either because of what

Starting point is 00:59:34 you just said there's always a new product coming there's always an early adopter tax of course that's why they launched the high-end one first that's like saying oh people who buy the rtx 3080 should be upset because there's going to be an RTX 3070. Of course there is. People who buy the RTX 3070 should be mad because there's going to be an RTX 4000 series. Of course there is. What do you guys want? If you bought a 1080, there was a 1080 Ti coming down the line. That's the game. You don't like the game. Don't play the game. Go home. Take your ball. Like, I don't know what to tell you guys. There are ways to navigate this ecosystem, but you have to take it upon yourself. You have to be an educated consumer. That's how, as a student,

Starting point is 01:00:15 I was able to have a baller gaming rig because I never actually lost money on it. I spent money, but it was cumulative. I would buy things for cheap. I would sell them for more. I'd build systems for people on the side. I'd put that money back into my hobby. And while yes, I did own like a $2,000 like sick rig or whatever, that was money that had like kind of cycled through multiple parts over and over and over again. So I was at worst losing, you know, 5% on an upgrade from one gen to the next gen. And that means you have to constantly be watching the rumors, watching the news, reading the reviews, really knowing not just the cost of

Starting point is 01:00:55 the products, but the value of the products. That's why you would never buy, you know, something that you think is going to depreciate too much because hey something new could come out and then you just got owned it's like the same 1080 ti versus 1080 is not comparable to 20 gigabyte model versus 10 gigabyte model you're right i was just talking about there's a new product coming down the line which was the current statement actually yeah what are you going to do about it all right let's uh should we actually talk about oh my goodness we haven't even talked about our sponsors we've talked about almost nothing yeah well yes and no that was like very extensively one topic three topics in one and also that's true

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Starting point is 01:03:17 oh, cool, free stuff. But then the fact that they're still wearing them seems to indicate that they're pretty decent. So get $25 each pair with offer code WANSHhow at vessi.com slash wanshow all right what do you what other what topic you want to do you want to do microsoft by xenomax for seven and a half hit me hit me tell me about it the first thing i want to go into is the 7.5 billion number. Because like at a certain value, I think people's brains just go like, yeah, it's a lot, whatever. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:03:55 But it's like actually a gargantuan number. Like something that got brought up, this is not original research by me. I saw this on a tweet i think was when someone was looking at disney's acquisitions in comparison to this pixar in 2006 cost disney less to buy than xenomax wow that's kind of mind-. Marvel in 2009 cost Disney a little over half of what ZeniMax cost. Marvel was, so Pixar was 7.4 billion, technically below. Marvel was 4 billion. Lucasfilm in 2012 was also 4 billion.

Starting point is 01:04:41 Can you imagine if Microsoft had bought Lucasfilm? Was also $4 billion. Can you imagine if Microsoft had bought Lucasfilm? But, like, at this rate, they could have bought Marvel and Lucasfilm for, like, barely more than they bought ZeniMax. What would you rather own, Marvel and, like, Star Wars or ZeniMax? That kind of seems like a no-brainer, doesn't it? Right? Like, this price is huge.

Starting point is 01:05:07 And, like, I don't know. Maybe there was a bidding war going on or something i have no idea but like that's a monstrous i mean it's not like these aren't hugely influential intellectual properties we're talking bethesda software so there's your elder scrolls your fallout id software got your doom quake and rage arcane studios so that's dishonored and prey machine games wolfenstein and more and this grows the number of in-house xbox game development studios to 23 up from 15 that is huge like it's massive they're a massive acquisition it's just it's just like 7.5 billion is a lot of money that's just that it's like wow and like it really bought them something amazing which is there's been so and like this isn't gonna change that necessarily but there's been so much talk about like oh well the playstation has the good exclusives and yes uh the exclusives that were coming from ZeniMax to the PlayStation,

Starting point is 01:06:05 that is all Microsoft is not messing with those agreements. That is all going to still be honored. So Deathloop and Ghostwire Tokyo are both going to be timed exclusives for Sony. But Microsoft is just like, I don't know, they're muscling up. Nom, nom, nom, nom, nom. This is huge. Yeah. Like, it's all fine and good to be able to negotiate exclusives with independent

Starting point is 01:06:25 developers but if there are no independent developers left you basically have to be nintendo and at what point does microsoft just go you know join can buy nintendo no that probably couldn't nintendo has so much how would you even buy nintendo's bank account like how much cash does nintendo have on hand i? Yeah, it's huge. I'm also really, really hoping, because when I was a younger me, Bethesda was my favorite developer. How about now?

Starting point is 01:06:56 Not so much. You know? Not so much. The State of Elder Scrolls, they've been releasing the same damn game for like nine years which is obscene like there was decently large release gaps between their previous games because they made giant games in the elder scrolls series but now it's just huge and unreasonable and then fall 76 was just absolute trash like just terrible game they literally gave it out for free because no one

Starting point is 01:07:25 was buying it because it was so garbage like hopefully a new owner can light some fire under their buns i'm just and also obsidian and bethesda having the same parent company and this has been pointed out a million times as well. But that is super cool because we could be looking for, like, new Obsidian Fallout game, which is awesome because Fallout New Vegas was great. Nintendo has over $11 billion cash on hand, in case you were wondering.

Starting point is 01:08:02 That's actually just so amazing. That's like, let's just make our own theme park money you know yeah yeah yeah true yeah yeah yeah do you want to hey hey okay i know i know i say stuff like this sometimes and sometimes i don't always follow through we haven't watched star wars together at all yet but i'm gonna say this now. We're going to go to Nintendo Land together once this lockdown crap is over. All right? I'm so down. Let's do it.

Starting point is 01:08:29 Absolutely. We're going to Japan. All right? Beautiful. Yeah. Japan was, we were there for an extremely short period. I don't know if you've gone back. No, I haven't.

Starting point is 01:08:37 That was it. Yeah. We were there for an extremely short period of time. And that was one of my favorite trips I've ever done in my life. It was sweet. We were there for like 36 hours or something. I made the most of it we did got that got that ramen i recently showed someone i don't even remember why but i showed someone the omron tour video and i had forgotten until i brought it up but i remembered like

Starting point is 01:09:01 the state in which we filmed that. Ed was so drunk. It was bad. And none of the rest of us knew how to operate the camera. Like. Oh, geez. That was, that was quite the trip. It was absolutely horrible. Like, man, I, the way that guy used to drink i'm glad he still you know works is alive to work

Starting point is 01:09:27 here um sorry ed maybe this isn't something you would have had me talk i don't think he cares but um that's why i only get the state of the video but yeah well okay to be clear okay hold on a second i should clarify it wasn't like it wasn't an all the time thing it was a when we traveled thing so he was yeah when it was free wow did he ever put it away like unbelievable our first ces he would pass out drunk at when we'd get back to our hotel room at like two in the morning he was always off hours and stuff too and we we had actually, I think we had forgotten about that video, which is why we filmed it when he was in that state. Yeah. He would wake up like an hour and a half later,

Starting point is 01:10:11 edit for like two hours, like in like a, what's it called, like a fugue state? And then sleep for another two hours. And we'd be up at six in the morning hitting the show floor. He did it the entire week. I'm pretty sure that old man Ed, who is the current Ed, I'm pretty sure he would die if he tried to replicate floor he did it the entire week i'm pretty sure that old man ed who is the the current ed i'm pretty sure he would die if he tried to replicate what he did at ces 2013 i think a lot of us would to be completely fair um yeah i mean some of the stuff we used to do i

Starting point is 01:10:36 i don't think i'd be physically capable of anymore like like the the original the original uh titan launch like i made like eight videos about one card in like days yeah and the amount of yeah i did not really sleep that whole week and i just yeah like i i try every once in a while something will happen where like i need to be on it for an extremely large amount of hours in a row and they're strenuous now back then it was just like ah whatever i don't really care i'm not gonna feel it i'm gonna i'm gonna have some noodles yeah like sure whatever yeah and now like i'll wake up in the morning and i'm genuinely sick and like i'm paying for it yep yeah but yeah this is this is actually i'm excited and this wouldn't normally excite me but i think the reason why I'm excited is I feel like,

Starting point is 01:11:27 especially Bethesda, which is my favorite one out of this, I haven't been way too into the Wolfenstein games as of late. Dishonored was really cool. Last couple Doom games have been pretty cool. Yeah, that's very true. So Doom and the Bethesda games are the ones that I care about in that mix, but I'm really

Starting point is 01:11:45 hoping that bethesda gets some get some fire under them um i'm worried i'm worried that effectively what's going to happen is the same thing that amazon is doing to uh retail is you're going to you're going to lose out on the the spice life that is the variety that comes from a healthy and diverse ecosystem. And I feel like as much as acquiring companies claim that they always release a statement like this, we love everything about what they're doing. It's so great that we're not going to change anything. We just wanted to add them to our

Starting point is 01:12:25 portfolio it never works out how'd that work out for twitch something that i would argue is that gaming has been like sick for a while now um and i think the activision blizzards of the world and the eas of the world are are showing that and like the amount of output and the amount of focus that gets placed on the Activision Blizzards and the EAs and the horse armor crafters, although that reference is probably so old now that you're probably one of the only people that gets it. But that is dominating the scene by a massive amount because there is so unfortunately it is consumer driven there is so much money in making terrible games that you can spend a lot on yeah like it's it's actually a thing and people will do it and there's like there doesn't seem to be anything

Starting point is 01:13:18 that community voice can can solve here because whales will wail no matter what people say yeah uh so like yeah junk games that you can spend a ton on very very empty soulless games that you can spend a ton on are doing really well and it's it's cool to me that the fall guys and the among us games out there have started actually kind of popping off because they're a little bit smaller studios, smaller teams, genuinely really fun focused games. Yeah. PC gaming needs so much more of that. It absolutely does. And something that I really, really, really hope turns out to be awesome, but we probably won't hear anything from it for quite a few years is Dreamhaven. Have you heard about this? No. No, it's not in the doc. But Mike Morhaime, he's an original co-founder and former CEO of Blizzard Entertainment. Oh, wow. From way back at the beginning. I'm talking the Lost Vikings era. He co-founded the original,

Starting point is 01:14:24 I think they were called something before they were called Blizzard from that he co-founded the original i think they were called something before they were called blizzard but like he co-founded the way back then and then was clearly very unhappy with the activision stuff and then he left i think like two years ago he yeah uh and then he came out of retirement to found dream haven um and i can also i like the name if he lives up to the name then it sounds pretty good the name is actually the whole point as far as he's saying it and you said something very recently that was like everyone says this and like to a lot of degrees yes but i think he's actually directly addressing in here a lot of the issues that i think the gaming industry has had for a

Starting point is 01:15:02 long time where they're taking these, these artists and these creatives and they're bleeding them for micro transactions and trying to get them to pump out garbage that they can sell. They're trying to shrink deadlines. They're trying to do all this other kind of stuff to, to make terrible things that you can spend a lot of money on. And they, they,

Starting point is 01:15:21 they go into the details here. I wasn't ready for this, but the opening statement is, welcome to Dreamhaven. We love epic adventures, sharing stories and creating lasting memories with family and friends. So we're building a new game company

Starting point is 01:15:33 based on our shared values and relentless passion for making meaningful player experiences. And they go on later into basically talking about having the goal to not be massive financial gain, but the goal to be high quality games and sustaining yourself off of that instead. Well, if Nintendo's anything to go on, you can have both. It can work. It can absolutely work. You're right. Nintendo is a great example for that. And that's

Starting point is 01:16:02 one of the reasons why I've been a fanboy of Nintendo for a long time. Of that, not of everything. Sometimes Nintendo makes mistakes. Oh, absolutely. The Wii U just in general. Oh, I just meant more than being like jerks. Oh, sure. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:16:16 They were extremely stupid around the origin of game streaming and stuff like that. They've made massive mistakes, but in general, they seem to strive for quality which is which is important um so they they already have two studios under the the wings of dreamhaven uh called moonshot games and secret door and i don't i don't think there's much details about what those studios plan to do um hopefully what they plan to do isn't exactly what's already commercially successful on the market what they plan to do isn't exactly what's already commercially successful on the market or they're going to have another what was that uh mmo that lasted for like months wild star something like that i remember going to i remember going to pax and they had like this gigantic booth and the thing launched and it was just like yeah it's

Starting point is 01:17:02 like wow but bad like okay and then how long did amazon's uh amazon's new shooter last on uh like their their public release and they like take it back private or something stupid like that i was following it a little while ago amazon game i didn't even yeah crucible that's right crucible so it went from like people were being paid to play it to nobody was playing it and then went back into closed beta like oops at least they did that to be honest at least they didn't just leave it burn like ea probably would i don't even remember what game that was but there was there was a game that came out from EA that was just actual garbage. And they just tried to erase it from history, basically.

Starting point is 01:17:50 I'm sure Twitch chat remembers. Classified says CD Projekt Red, anyone? Well, okay, yes, but also no. There are examples. Yes, but also no. CD Projekt Red has the luxury. And this was a good business move. And I'm not saying I'm not going to give them credit for it but they have they have the luxury of what i call valve

Starting point is 01:18:09 privilege where they get to work on games for fun because they feel like working on games because they also have good old games which keeps them flush with cash so if they don't release a game for five years no one has to worry about like what they're gonna eat um they can just eat a cut of other people's game sales um and i'm not saying that's like bad it's it's good i love good old games love the model um yeah love all the guys over there it's just uh little games actually didn't bring in much for them yeah but it brings in consistent yes it's something you can rely on yeah and like yeah there there are there are examples of companies that aren't doing that but as a whole i i think it would be fairly hard to argue that the the state of the video gaming industry is like very healthy um you don't want another nhl game nhl bubble edition it feels like

Starting point is 01:19:09 a lot of the i would say the majority of the big players in the video game industry are kind of phoning it in and cashing out yep that's fair i mean that's not that's not a good or healthy thing for good quality within that industry. So let's see if Microsoft does better. Because if there's one thing we've learned from the Netflix model, from the model of whatever it is as a service, it's that it can keep you flush with cash so that you can afford to make investments. And what it can do, so it provides that stability because you've got those recurring payments so that you can invest. But it also incentivizes investing in legitimately great experiences because you want people to keep paying their monthly fee. paying their monthly fee. So, you know, there's no question that Netflix has produced a ton of really great original content and sometimes about things that other more traditional production

Starting point is 01:20:11 companies might not even touch. Like they did something on like a Chinese protest or something, a documentary a little while ago that, you know, if I was Disney, there's no way I would do that or any of the bazillion things that Disney owns. And that's really cool because in a sense, it's almost like a more democratic way of creating content because it's ultimately funded by the people for the people. Now, Netflix is a public company and beholden to shareholders and all that other kind of stuff. So there's definitely some complication there. I'm just saying it's a little bit more sustainable. So if Microsoft is building what is essentially like the Netflix of gaming through their Xbox experiences,

Starting point is 01:20:55 acquiring all these game developers with the intention of like, okay, look guys, no, just make great games so that people never put down their Xbox and always just keep reinvesting in the Xbox ecosystem. Well, I can see why Microsoft said, and this was months ago, we don't even see Sony as a competitor anymore

Starting point is 01:21:12 because Lord only knows how long they've had this in the works. They could still do things better. I mean, did you see people were accidentally buying Xbox One Xs because Microsoft's naming scheme is so utterly stupid that people don't don't know what series x is or one x or series s or like what are you doing stop it's so easy one two three four five sony can do it and like there that's it that's all i have to say about it series is a really stupid name it's so stupid and i'm sure there's some like deep meaning like we talked about this on a previous when show

Starting point is 01:21:53 actually where like maybe they're calling it series because it's the final xbox and they're just going to keep doing serieses and they're just going to run at different levels of graphical fidelity or whatever the point, it doesn't matter. You have to make things clear for the consumer. I blame Apple. It is Apple's fault that we just keep calling the product MacBook without clarifying which f***ing MacBook. Which Xbox is it?

Starting point is 01:22:22 I actually need to know these things because it affects things like controller intergenerational compatibility and like what games run on it and what TVs it hooks up to and interfaces it has. It's stupid. The original Xbox name was pretty cool. I think Xbox 360 was like, okay.

Starting point is 01:22:43 And then since then, I think everything has been a mistake yep 100 the xbox one was was asinine not good because when i say xbox now i have to say original xbox which is a lot of syllables wasted how much oxygen has microsoft wasted from people having to say original Xbox? Like how many lives have been consumed? I'm sure this wasn't an intention, even though it might be a benefit to a certain degree, but like buying an Xbox controller on Craigslist is kind of hard.

Starting point is 01:23:16 Right. Yeah, that makes sense. Like it's annoying and it's hard because you have very inconsistent listing names because it's Craigslist. So it's like, i don't know oh nintendo is really rough on their handhelds yeah someone someone listed uh new nintendo 3ds xl and then i think they had new nintendo 3ds xl plus yeah or something like i i make fun of that all the time yeah like how hard is it cooper says the problem is they can't name it Xbox 4 because uneducated consumers would see PS5 and go, oh, that's one number bigger.

Starting point is 01:23:51 Fine. But everyone knew the solution way back years ago. Xbox 720 then, if you absolutely must. Like if you must have stupid, irrelevant numbers. I think that's what everyone thought it was going to be. Everyone thought it was going to be Xbox 720. They came out with Xbox One and we were like, what? Connect what? Yeah. Hub of the media. What are you talking about? And then they ran out and bought PlayStations. Yeah. So just like making simple branding is actually really easy. And Microsoft knows how to do it. Gold membership. Oh, that's like good and shiny.

Starting point is 01:24:27 I'll get that one. They know how to do it. They just also know how to confuse people for no reason. Making confusing branding is actually harder than making simple branding because all the rules already exist. Gold, silver, bronze. And then, oh, shoot. Oh, we came up with something better. Oh, platinum. Throw that in there. No problem. No problem. You know, one, two, three, four, five. Oh, shoot. There's one that's like kind of in between. Call it the five plus. Whatever. It's easy. It's easy. Making things difficult for consumers to understand. The cynic in me thinks that back when NVIDIA was going through a dark time in the Fermi days when they were just rebranding cards or when AMD rebranded the 7970 four times or however many times they did it, the cynic in me just goes like okay yeah

Starting point is 01:25:25 i guess you're just you have to resell the you know the same or a worse product and you need people to think it's new so that the media will cover it again and so people will run out and like buy the new one or whatever it is and i get some consumers are probably that stupid but for everyone else please just call it what it is yeah i'm not surprised at all that this happened and it's just disappointing all right but yeah i'm exhausted now big navi might be faster than the 3080 what one quick thing i want to throw before we leave is there's a statement from someone at zenimax saying like the real winners today are the gamers no the real winners are the real winners are the people that just sold their company for 7.5

Starting point is 01:26:10 billion yeah you're not you're not fooling anyone there's some cool things for the gamers but the real winners are you yeah stuff it sorry we can continue uh big navi might be faster than 3080 according to some firmware listing something something 80 compute units i'll believe it when i see it sweet spotify tile proton mail and base camp join epic against apple the coalition published a list of 10 app store principles no developer should be required to use an app store exclusively no developer should be blocked or discriminated against if they compete with the app store owner uh yeah every developer should have timely access to interoperability interfaces and technical information. Yep. Should have access to

Starting point is 01:26:48 the app store as long as they meet basic standards, security, privacy, quality, digital safety. Developer's data should not be used to compete with the developer. Yeah. Freaking obviously, like these are all such like obvious antitrust violations that absolutely Apple has violated. Every developer should be able to communicate with users through its app. Yeah. No app store should be able to engage in self-preferencing. Yeah. No developer should be required to pay unfair fees nor be required to sell within its app anything it doesn't wish to sell. And all app stores should be transparent about their rules and policies. That's a big one. That's one of the places where Apple's arguments might really fall

Starting point is 01:27:24 apart, where they're trying to say like, it's all in the interest of the smoothness of the experience except that it isn't smooth and you are not applying the rules equally um and it's well documented that they're not um so there's that oh oh my goodness we've got a new ltdstore.com merch item uh do you have it uh i can i can get it it was warm i left it at the office i left it on my chair i don't have it okay luke's gonna go get it but i'm gonna show you guys look at this guy with this beard and this comfy comfy gray sweater and whoa does it have a hidden pocket is there a hidden pocket down there that can fit a Note 9? You can put your hands in it too. Look at that.

Starting point is 01:28:09 We've got all kinds of different sizes and shapes of people to show you what it looks like. Look at this guy. Isn't he beautiful? Hey, it's Andy, Anthony, more David. Wait a minute. Is this the same pictures over and over again? Look at this guy. He's all like loser. No, he's pointing at the LTT logo. So we went with really

Starting point is 01:28:29 subtle branding on this one. It's just meant to be like, it's got like a fleecy inside, not actual fleece, so it's 100% cotton French terry. And it's like really warm and like snuggly, kind of like a bit of a looser fit than some of the stuff that we've done before that's more more form fitted but we think it's going to be extremely popular um the one problem is you might want to buy two instead of just one because there is a high probability if mine and luke's experience is anything to go by that your lady will steal it from you the second you bring it home um yeah like the the one that i the prototype one that i've had for actually like months at this point we've been working on this one a long time uh

Starting point is 01:29:09 yvonne has probably worn it like eight times to my one um so we we decided on what i think is very reasonable pricing on this one we're doing 39.99 uh compared to the stealth hoodie and the swack it there was just i I mean, it actually did end up being a ton of work because it's a totally different size chart. And because there's less, um, stretch in the material, we had to do a lot of work to make sure that it'd be comfortable to put on and all that kind of stuff. But it was less, um, less custom sewing, um, than something like stealth hoodie or Swacket. uh we were like okay well yeah hey why don't we do why don't we do 40 bucks let's do a 40 sweater um actually about the right season

Starting point is 01:29:51 to be putting it on sale accidentally uh yeah it was supposed to be last last winter but don't don't worry about it too much just head over to lttstore.com get one for yourself um yeah super subtle branding we we don't want our merch to be like you know hey you have to broadcast to everyone in your social circle that you really like linus tech tips but if you want to do that you can get a stealth hoodie which has like you know the logo down the arm or whatever we definitely have stuff like that this is just more for staying comfy and cozy when you're when you're gaming hopefully you guys like it yeah so someone commented why are the arms so long so i so i showed like when my arm is out it is not super long yeah and you can

Starting point is 01:30:33 that's one of the reasons i actually it's it sort of happened just by accident like people actually like doing it which is really cool like modeling merch is not in anybody's job descriptions but people just have stepped up and are just like yeah sure i'll do it i want to do it and so i really like that sorry to cut you off but i really like that so many people do it because you really get to see how it fits on like a really wide variety of actual humans instead of like yeah i don't know. It's cool. Instead of models. Because we don't have any models. This is all just people who work at... Here's a bunch of people that you have probably seen a fair amount of times.

Starting point is 01:31:12 And they're fairly consistent throughout the store. So you see them in a bunch of different stuff. And you can tell kind of how it fits. If you buy something and you see the pictures and it fits a certain person in a certain way. And you're like, wow, this fits me really nicely. Then you see that person wearing something different in the future and it fits a certain person in a certain way and you're like wow this fits me really nicely then you see that person wearing something different in the future and it fits them nicely you can probably guess that it's going to fit you nicely again like that's actually super cool i don't know that's a benefit in my eyes ice peter asks who buys this trash um lots and lots of people who are like actually pretty stoked on our trash for the most part it's been

Starting point is 01:31:46 like actually pretty stoked on our trash for the most part it's great it's been a very very successful uh part of the business for us because we have another business that can allow us to invest in it and not rush anything um i actually killed a product yesterday that was supposed to launch on this wan show um it was a long sleeve with short circuit branding that I wasn't happy with the sleeve length and the fit because the final garments that we got did not match what I had approved. So basically they were going to have sleeves that were too long and kind of bunched up weird. And it was a difficult decision because we've already printed hundreds of them. So those are just going to get donated now um but that product is not launching and we're not taking your money for it um so that's why people buy this trash because it's not trash um because we don't have to push out trash we can just take our time and do it right that's why uh viewer activity let's have

Starting point is 01:32:44 a look at some uh some trash comments from people who paid to send comments because they're crazy uh jergan says hey when will wansho be available as vaude on floatplane yeah luke we should we do that at some point we should probably do that what are we doing sorry wansho vaude on floatplane yeah we probably should i know you can yep i know you can you know that zoey melb says shout out to the ltd folding team now that it's cooling off in the north i can fold again sweet also video suggestion 12 vo car pc build that runs directly off the car's electricity that's actually not a bad idea thomas says uh what's Nick's Twitter handle so I can bother him about possibly making those colored elemental shirts for LTTstore.com?

Starting point is 01:33:28 At Nick LMG, I think. I actually don't know. I'm pretty sure that's it. Jake says, hey, just scored an IT job today using knowledge I learned from LMG videos. Thanks for sparking my interest. Hey, that is sick. That's freaking awesome. Theorica says, in case you didn't mention it,

Starting point is 01:33:47 any takers on the shifty stealth pins? Shifty stealth pins. Shifty. Oh, oh, oh, you mean the... Hmm, mine doesn't make sense, but it's probably just me and everyone who asked me about it. I think you're talking about the people

Starting point is 01:34:02 who got gaming rigs from their stealthins shirts that they bought on the store. Two of them have been claimed already. Yes. I actually don't know if the third one got claimed. They might not have seen it on the WAN show. So hey, if your Stealth Pins shirt has something different other than LTT spelled out in it, go check and send a picture to the support team.

Starting point is 01:34:23 I had another update. No, I can't give you guys that update yet. Robert Mail says, Gigabyte 3070 leaked on Discord. 1815 boost clock. Oh, okay. Luke says, I would like a GPU with no dents when I spend 3080 money. Yeah, a little bit. Baja Truck Guy says, I work at a machine shop and i have some minimum wage employees they don't understand they need to work above their pay to get ahead in the job yeah back to that i mean i get it i see both sides because if they feel like it's dead end they're not going to want to invest and if you feel like they're a dead end loser you're not going to want to invest in them and then nobody invests in anybody and the business suffers

Starting point is 01:35:04 everybody suffers because when a business doesn't succeed everyone loses their job i mean except for this broken mega sort of corporation situation where everyone above us yeah you get golden parachute which i think is horrible like i honestly i have no problem with you know i don't agree with elon musk about everything but i have no problem with his compensation being based on performance at the job like that i can get behind you know if you are going to pay yourself you know millions of dollars a year or whatever when things are going good yeah sure fine whatever but you better get paid zero dollars a year when things are going bad because executives are ultimately supposed to be what guide the ship so if the ship's going in the wrong direction the buck has to stop somewhere

Starting point is 01:35:50 um my channel luke what color ltd bottle should i get linus won't get my jingle jingle unless you answer i my favorite one is the the white and black but the the fairly standard black and gold is very very cool um i think most people like this one and i think it's with decently good reason but i like the white one my girlfriend loves the pink one surprise surprise uh josh says i got the 3090 ftw3 ultra but i'm not either of the customers you mentioned i wanted the extra vram and the 3080 20 gig will probably be somewhere between the new cards and price i won't need to upgrade for a while now but you also don't sound mad so you you wanted the

Starting point is 01:36:37 state of the art which was one of the people that i outlined by the way okay yeah it's like you outlined to be completely honest uh al baker says i want to buy a new mac mini soon is there a point do you think to buying the maximum available storage capacity i i don't know would you buy a mac now knowing that the arm stuff is coming that's tough hey buy a mac at all well yeah but okay fine um that's literally mostly just because like i would have no idea what to do once it sat in front of me i also can't see i don't even want to learn i can't see any reason in the year 2020 to buy a system with maxed out storage like the money that you have to spend on storage upgrades for some of those like um tier one pcs you might as well just like put together a cheap NAS with spinning disks

Starting point is 01:37:26 and then only keep the ones that are only keep the things you absolutely need on your machine. Like who has more than 256 gigs of actual applications that they need on something like a Mac mini? Like, it's not like you're loading it up with a bunch of like call of duty, modern warfare. Like, what are you putting on there? You should be working off of a NAS. So I would invest in the 10 gig interface and like some 10 gig gear. I'd build out my network infrastructure over time. I wouldn't. Okay.

Starting point is 01:37:54 Weiping Lin says, I want a dishwasher safe water bottle. Unfortunately, all of the vacuum walled water bottles are not dishwasher safe. Just because your other one doesn't have a warning about it doesn't mean you should put it in the dishwasher all right that's it uh wait what merch idea long johns and long sleeve shirt made yeah hey we gotta get out of here we got that among us game to get to. Conductive material. Hold on a second. A bodysuit made of conductive material as taser-proof underwear. What are you talking about? Thanks for watching.

Starting point is 01:38:39 It would still ground into you, wouldn't it? Show's over. Goodbye. Yeah, you'd have to earth it, someone just said. Yeah, you'd still need like a grounding. You could just drive

Starting point is 01:38:55 a big stake into the ground and then just like... You just can't move. You're basically a dog on a leash for your whole life. That'd be great show's brought to you by steel series footwear

The WAN Show - NVIDIA Keeps Disappointing Gamers - WAN Show September 25 , 2020

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