The WAN Show - PIA Executives Give THEIR Side of the Story - WAN Show Feb 7, 2020

Episode Date: February 10, 2020

Honey automatically applies the best coupon codes to save you money at different online checkouts, try it now at https://www.joinhoney.com/linus Visit https://www.squarespace.com/WAN and use offer code WAN for 10% off Save 15% today with offer code LTT on Displate at https://lmg.gg/displatewan PIA Partnership Poll: https://www.youtube.com/user/LinusTechTips/community Full Unlisted LTT x PIA x Kape Interview Video Link: https://youtu.be/vOjOA9tWs7U Buy an LTT shirt, hoodie, hat, and even our own water bottle at https://lmg.gg/wanlttstore LTX2020, Save the Date - August 8+9, 2020 - https://www.ltxexpo.com/ Check out Carpool Critics, our new movie podcast: http://carpoolcritics.libsyn.com/ Timestamps: (Courtesy of Navid Jamali) 0:00 Outfit coordination 2:22 Linus’ lip balm 3:00 Private Internet Access headline 4:56 PIA debt, are they profitable? 5:43 Several quick PIA Q&A 6:24 New CTO Mark Karpelès 8:00 Kape Technologies history lesson 9:08 Mark Zuckerburg 10:14 Clips from the interview 15:17 Linus explains his side of the PIA story 16:58 Linus posts poll(poll is gone now) 18:08 Intel stock buybacks 19:56 Show AMD dominates Amazon 23:27 Back to intel stock discussion 24:44 Power flicker(lasts a few seconds) 27:31 Back to PIA poll results [SPONSORS] 32:38 Honey joinhoney.com/linus 33:29 SquareSpace squarespace.com/wan offercode: WAN 34:23 FloatPlane PIA poll 36:40 ChannelSuperFun 38:20 Displate LMG.GG/displatewan offercode: LTT 39:24 Tesla removing features from used cars 40:34 What if the software is tied to user 43:00 Future of car ownership 44:26 Cars as a service and licensing features 47:55 Ownership between the generations 50:19 Possible LTX Displate and lttstore.com 50:58 OtterWorldly beating linus 52:50 FlashPoint and death of Adobe Flash 56:22 Xbox and their new main rivals 1:00:20 Super Chats Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm not open. Welcome to the Land Show ladies and gentlemen. We've got a fantastic show today You can tell because Luke and I Coordinated our outfits. I called him up this morning. I was like hey You gonna wear the floatplane shirt today? You can also wear blue jeans? And he was like he was like He was like no, and I was like okay good, I can wear it. And then that piece of human garbage showed up wearing the float plane shirt. Wrecked. Are you wearing LTT underwear too?

Yes. Nice. But I do that pretty much every time I can. LTTstore.com. We're the same underwear as us. That's right. Not the same article of clothing but we charge more for that looks along with the bath water um all right so we've got a

great show for you guys today we're going to be talking about the pia situation that took place a little back where uh pia got acquired by cape technologies I actually had a chance to sit down with some executives from both sides and sort of talk through some of our community's concerns. So we'll be discussing that a little bit later. Intel apparently is allegedly buying back stocks to hide declining growth. I mean, there's other reasons to buy back stocks, but that's sort of one reason you might do it. What else we got?

Xbox says Nintendo and Sony are no longer its main rivals. That'll be an interesting conversation, and I do not agree with them, but we'll go more into that later. Also, Nvidia's GeForce Now is finally out of beta, which is kind of cool. It's been in beta for a long time. Two years. Who do you think they are? Google? Flowplane? You know, I wasn't even going there.

Where I am going is into the intro! Don't you hate it when you get dry lips but only once? My top lip is dry dry but my bottom lip is oh that's kind of if i could find this stuff again i'm surprised they still have like merch oh Oh, they, no, this, these, these lip things are like, my mother gave them to me when I still lived at home. And they're still like, they still function. I mean, it's mineral oil, you know, beeswax, carnauba wax, microcrystalline wax.

It's just like wax, you know? Nothing that's going to rot. Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, maybe, maybe it rotted. Like I've been using it all that time. Like bits of skin flake could have rotted on it, you know? But it doesn't say it expires, so I've just kept using them. Nice.

Nice. All right. So we've got a great show for you guys today. As I said before, let's get right into it. Headliner, right? You know what? Let's go right to the headline topic. Private Internet Access. So I had a chance to sit down with, well, virtually sit down with, you know, air travel is costly and takes a lot of time and stuff.

So we used Discord. Unfortunately, the audio was sort of terrible. You guys used Discord? Well, because they are in Europe, so we were like on the Europe server, but I am super definitely not in Europe, and it pretty crackly anyway yeah sure anyway point is I actually recorded the entire call with their permission of course like it wasn't I wasn't surreptitiously recording it or anything like that was the plan but I recorded the entire call and we're gonna share that in an unlisted YouTube video

if you guys want to go ahead and check that out. And basically what we did was we polled our community a little bit earlier, it was either this week or last week, and we asked you guys to give us a list of the questions that you wanted us to ask PIA. So I sat down, I talked to them myself. Some of the concerns that people shared were

in this document that I cannot open because I opened the wrong one. Here we go. People wanted to know what kind of differences end users are going to see, how they can ensure their data is protected, whether PIA will remain private internet access, what guarantee people have that their information won't slip out in any shape or form whether they'll continue to operate in such a way that they can maintain true confidentiality with no records how does the merger help pia like why even do this you know one of the things i really drilled into was okay i understand how this helps pia because you know you have a bunch of money now

because you've got this parent company with large coffers, but what's in it for Cape Technologies? Because it was said in the news articles about the acquisition that PIA owed a lot of money, that they had a lot of debt. And so I was looking at it going, okay, well, why does PIA have debt unless they're not profitable? And if they're not profitable,

well, usually the model there for acquiring a non-profitable business is what are you acquiring? Users. Why do you want users? User data. So I asked, okay, like, how does that make sense? And they explained that basically the debt that PIA was carrying was actually more to do with product development of exciting upcoming products and not to do with that they were not operating profitably day by day. And I kind of went, okay, well, that makes a lot more sense acquiring a profitable business. So what else did we talk about? Will they be keeping IP records? The answer is no what kind of auditing do they do of their systems to avoid what happened oh actually didn't ask that

specifically because we ended up talking about um the auditing that they are open to so uh regulatory regulatory bodies are welcome to visit their offices they can poke around in their source code they've actually started open sourcing some of their products, which I thought was pretty cool. They say they're not planning any changes to the current end user license agreement. That was another big question. They couldn't really comment on pricing, I understand that.

They were like, yeah, I don't know, up, down, like pricing's sort of a thing. Yeah. One of the most common questions, even though this happened a long time ago, like something like a year and a half ago, was why did Mark Capella become their new CTO? And we've actually got a couple of clips here.

So we've got about 11 minutes of highlights. I'm not going to take you guys through. Oh, whoops. You're not screen sharing with me. So we've got about 11 minutes of highlights here. I'm not going to take you guys through the whole thing,'re not screen sharing with me so I've got about 11 minutes of highlights here I'm not gonna take you guys through the whole thing but I think it's worth including a little bit of it but the gist of that one was that London Trust Media hired Mark Capella's and he wasn't actually influential on PIA which is was like

owned by London Trust Media but then now PIA was actually acquired by Cape technologies so if anything this question is more irrelevant now than was like owned by London Trust Media, but then now PIA was actually acquired by Cape Technologies. So if anything, this question is more irrelevant now than ever, but they still were willing to answer it, which I thought was great. They were actually surprisingly approachable and transparent throughout the whole process. And they basically said, well, you know, we believe in second chances. You know, it's pretty evident that mistakes were made, but he never had any access to any user data and was working for London Trust Media. We know he's very capable. So, you know, we hired him based on that.

And one of PIA's founders had an existing relationship with him and kind of said, like, I know he's a good guy and, like, you know, bad stuff happens, but we think people deserve a second chance. Bad stuff happens, but we think people deserve a second chance. And he had nothing to do with any of PIA's privacy applications. So we had a pretty long conversation about that as well. Yeah. So basically the long and short of it is that they're saying Cape Technologies made mistakes in the past. I mean, that was the other big concern that I think our users had was that Cape Technologies in its earlier days was whether directly or basically was in the business of selling user data, ended up having it blow up in their faces. The CEO, this is what they're telling me,

the CEO basically burned it all to the ground, got rid of everybody, brought in an entirely new team, and decided, okay, no, new focus. We are going to work on the concept of monetizing privacy instead of monetizing data. And they pointed at their acquisitions of other VPN companies who notably haven't had any scandals. Cyber Ghost is a perfect example in the last few years since Cape Technologies acquired them as their commitment to keep moving in that direction. Really interesting quip was they, I forget who it was.

Sorry, there were a handful of people on the call, but one of them pointed out that Mark Zuckerberg got up on stage and talked about privacy as a really exciting business opportunity, et cetera, privacy as, like, you know, a really exciting business opportunity, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And I'm kind of sitting here going, okay. And they were like, yeah, yeah, no, no, wrong messenger. Yeah. But, like, great message. Sure.

Yeah, that's fair enough. Awkward. Yeah, lie to your users a ton and then advertise privacy. Yeah. Well, you know, that's the whole, it's the whole, I want to say conspiracy theory, but it seems pretty believable, right? You know, where the same actors are creating, you know, weapons and shields. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right?

Yeah, definitely. Are we going to watch it? Or are you just going to do the summary thing? You know what? I kind of summarized a lot of it. Why don't we watch a couple chunks of it, though? Sure, sure. Yep. Don't log.

Do you log? Just for our viewers, I want a summary. Do you log IP addresses? Do you log, you know, any, like, metadata? I mean, obviously, you have to take payment from people somehow. How does this work? What do you not log? So we do not log in any of our services any IP translations Sorry that the video is frozen on their side the connection wasn't great

But that only shows that you use a vpn and not what you do with the vp and that is also shown we are very transparent with them i remember that i was the first company in the history of vpns that opened and published a transparency report regarding police requests and we get several police requests here also private internet access is releasing a transparency report regarding police requests and we get several police requests here also private internet access is releasing a transparency report so you see in the way we deal with police requests and subpoenas that there is no data there there's no data log there's no diverse law and maybe Andrew can tell a little bit more about how it's handled there absolutely yeah we don't log anything as it relates to VPN traffic or anything.

You know, obviously when somebody signs up, we know if somebody signs up. But, you know, we're really committed to our no-log policy. But it's great that you asked this question because we're actually taking it a step further and we're opening our systems up to review from both auditors in the community as well as professional auditors as well so that they can verify what we're saying, not just take our word for it. This is going to be a question that you guys... So basically that's the summary of the no log policy Basically, they are committed to continuing to not log anything Okay

I think my other time stamps are in the dock here the the big middle chunk The only reason I'm not playing it is because it ended up being really long and it was faster to summarize it I did post the full thing in the Chat and then I'm just checking to see I believe it's also posted in the video description yep it's posted in the video description if you guys want to check that out I'm just checking my other timestamp yes one completely off topic question that I have yeah this guy's in a tent I don't know what they're doing are they camping I'm not I'm not sure

I'm sorry they were super backlit it camping? I'm not sure. I'm sorry. They were super backlit. It was hard to see their faces. Yeah, I mean, that answer was, as far as I know, the same answer you get if you look up their FAQ stuff. Yep. Did Mel? Hey. This was edited down for long pauses, apparently.

Good effort, guys. You know, one thing I wanted to share is that we recently... Oh, I asked if there was anything else you wanted to share. Okay, yeah, let's try that one more time. You know, one thing I wanted to share is that we recently open sourced all of our software, and we also announced a new program called Zero Access that, you know, I kind of briefly touched on it before, but we're basically, you know, opening up our systems to prove that we actually won't have access to the systems. But at the same time, they're running exactly what, you know, we're saying that is running and it's all going to be proven. Okay.

Yeah, the big push on our end is for complete transparency and accessibility to our community. Someone had an iPhone sitting next to their mic. Okay. Well, go ahead. I have a small point on that one. A lot of questions are also in this direction. How can we guys trust you?

You know? And my answer is always, don't trust us. I mean, just don don't just look at what we are doing we are we are publicly listed we are the most transparent company out there everybody knows our headquarters go on our websites you're going to see pictures of people working for these companies so we are launching a transparency report our policy at cyber goals is since three years and it's the same policy at private internet access or at send me any I NGO any NGO that is in this field and has experts is invited market outdoors in Bucharest or the headquarter

at PR or exam made and you can have a watch you can watch our service you can see our service you can look at our source code you can see what's behind the scenes you can talk with the people we are super transparent don't trust us just look at how we operate the business and to add additional trust now we start to closely and slowly open source stuff and I think that is important I think that is the difference between us as a group and our products and any other VPN open. Okay.

All right. Thank you very much. So in summary, what we've decided to do to make things simple. So I don't know if you guys have noticed, but we worked with PIA for a long time, ever since we weren't comfortable with TunnelBear's acquisition by McAfee, up until the news of PIA then getting acquired. Now, we haven't stopped working with PIA, strictly speaking, but ever since that day, we haven't done any promotion for PIA.

We haven't put out our affiliate link. Actually, we had it in one spot. It was like in a template somewhere, but we removed it once someone brought that to our attention because it wasn't that we were sure that Cape Technologies was going to be a negative influence on them we just didn't know and we didn't want to put ourselves in a position where you know PIA had got acquired and then now we're we're hopping over to

some other VPN and then what like are they gonna get acquired and then we have some big scandal and then we hop over to some other VPN and we were just kind of I Was tired of that cycle. You know, I don't want to deal with that and from my perspective, you know if we couldn't just Find someone that we can trust to recommend to our users then I was just gonna bail on it So what we told PIA is look we're gonna give you guys a chance to speak your mind we're gonna let the community decide I mean everyone's had actually like weeks now actually months to process all of this so what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna drop the this poll in the forum here right in the forum excuse me I'm gonna drop this poll in the forum here right in the forum excuse me I'm gonna drop this

poll in the chat here and we're just gonna let you guys decide so in order to prevent any exploiters from taking advantage of that this is a poll that's based on the YouTube community link we are going to cut off the voting in the next five minutes. I'm not going to give people time to spin up their botnet or whatever the case may be. So, guys, go ahead and check that out. Do you want to drop that

in the floatplane chat as well? This guy's on it. He's on it. He's taking care of our float planers. I also re-upped on the other two just to make sure they got updated links. Alright, so guys, go check that out and That's it you guys are a judge jury and executioner, so if you guys say yeah stick with PIA then That's it. We're sticking with it. If you guys say no hard bail then it's hard bail as far as I'm concerned

So we'll do one more topic while we wait for you guys to go through that, and then we'll come back and have a look at the results. This is a fun one. This was posted by Jacob F.W. on the forum. The original source is seekingalpha.com, so a popular financial news site. Intel's stock has been trading near 20-year highs. However, Intel's annual 10-K filing shows that the company's operations are running far behind the sentiment in the stock and that the earnings per share growth is

Being driven through stock buybacks. I mean this shouldn't be a surprise to anyone who's been following the The tax changes that have been made down in the states over the last several years Intel is far from the only company utilizing its windfall from not paying as much taxes to buy back a whole bunch of its stock and pump up the value. Although there may be more to this. So let's go through the rest of this. So the driver of Intel's story in the recent past has been its data center group. But this segment barely grew in 2019 Could be partly because of AMD epic to roam servers And their profitability actually declined by over 10% the first year epic shipped in decent volumes So yes, that is probably a factor and if the last you know few months ever since Rome 2 in particular are

you know few months ever since Rome 2 in particular are anything to go by in terms of like third-party reviews and just the buzz that I've seen in the places where people are discussing enterprise hardware. 2020 is not going to be a good year for that unit. So the other major group at Intel is the client computing group so that's where you've got your k-series overclocking you know gaming CPUs all that kind of thing And growth in 2019 also died down. AMD has been consistently getting market share against the client computing group ever since basically the launch of Verizon. I mean, it's at the point now where, here, all we have to do is fire up Amazon.com. Yeah.

I mean, check this out, ladies and gentlemen. This is not pre-scripted, ladies and gentlemen, okay? We're gonna look at... I don't even know how to navigate Amazon's site. It's terrible. You pass computers. It's terrible. Computers. Yeah, but it's not computers. I need... Ah, computer components. Here we go, ladies and gentlemen.

We need computer components. Well, whatever. Here you go. Here we go, ladies and gentlemen. Here you go. AMD. Some more AMD. Best seller. AMD. Some more component well whatever here's here we go ladies and gentlemen here you go amd some more amd best seller amd some more amd that's red but not amd but hey it's red you know it counts more amd holy crap that's actually amd board amd board amd processor amd board there isn't a single intel thing on the landing page. That's actually crazy.

Now, you know, if I wore a tinfoil hat, I might suggest that Amazon is, you know, Lisa Su's niece is working for Amazon and making... No, that's... Amazon is algorithmically driven. I can tell you for a fact that if it's AMD all over the computer components front page, that's because that's what people are even if they're not necessarily

buying it, you know, every single one of those products. Like, Intel's definitely still selling CPUs. But even if they aren't necessarily buying it, that's what people are shopping for. That's what people are, like, lusting after right now. Wait. Oh, no, never mind.

I thought I saw an Intel product on the homepage, but actually that was just something that I had in my cart as like a thinking about item. So I sorted to specifically CPU processors, and there's Intel stuff right on the front, but you'll... Hold on. Here we go. What do you got? What do you got here? What do you expect there to be in the middle top?

Oh, boy. What the heck is that doing there? Why is that there? Why is it $500? Why is there an Athlon XP? What are these sponsored... Who is sponsoring this? We need more transparency! What's going on here? Once you move past the really...

No, I've gone back in time! It's Athlon XP versus Core 2 Quad! That's, well, that's gonna be a gong show. Once you get past the sponsored ones, however, it's AMD land. It takes, what, seven, sort of eight, because there's randomly an SSD in here, until you get to an Intel processor. Okay, hold on, I had, had I had some I had a viewer asked me to do it in incognito mode Okay friends. I always do it in incognito mode. So this is computers Don't just go away

Computer components. Here we go. All right. You ready ladies and gentlemen AMD AMD AMD this is I do AMD AMD Yeah, I actually don't really shop on amazon.com very much So I might as well loading it in incognito mode. Oh, I also went to dot CA. Oh, okay? That was dot CA. Oh, okay. What I showed you you ended up with a couple Intel processors Well, but that was when you went to the CPU page specific. Oh, wow page after the sponsored posts It's all rising for two whole rows Wow Wow. And then in the third row, the third item is an Intel cost. And then you've got, like, an SSD in there because, like, you only live once. So there's an SSD beating Intel's first entry.

Yes. That's rough. Two entries, and it's all back to AMD for three more and then back to... AMD town. Oof. Population, y'all. Oof. All right.

So what else we got here growth would have been negative if not for adjacent business a segment that included apple modem the apple modem business which saw a major growth spurt in 2019 um so intel is posting increased earnings per share despite the declining operating income how is this possible stock repurchases have climbed from 3.615 billion to 10.73 billion in 2018 to... oh sorry that was 2017 to 2018 to 13.576 billion in 2019. So some may argue that Intel's continuing to generate tremendous amounts of cash despite the challenges and there's nothing wrong with stock buybacks in fact it can Be a sign that the executives are confident that stock price will go up in the future The argument is a little flawed though the main problem is not stock buybacks But the buybacks are hiding the declining operation. I don't I don't so I read this

I don't think that the argument is necessarily flawed right they're saying some may argue that they're they're Getting a bunch of cash and and there's nothing wrong with stock buybacks then the next statement is saying that they're the argument is flawed which would mean that there is something wrong with stock buybacks well there can be um i think is what they're trying to say like they sure but that's a weird statement so if you're doing stock i can try to get that turned back on did we just have like a power flicker here i hear a printer printer yeah uh okay no it's fine oh or actually yeah i can keep going um okay, let's just both leave. Okay I'm gonna come back Hello Yeah, so I don't know I I was we praised Ubisoft what like two years ago when they resisted a company buying them out by

Frantically buying as much stock as yeah, that's true. I don't think buying back stock is necessarily a bad thing. They could definitely be using it to cover up declining whatevers. But if you're making stock purchasing decisions and you're looking that shallowly at things, like, eh. That's not, no. No, you have to protect the lowest common denominator. 100%. I don't do stock stuff very often.

No, what I mean by protect, I mean protect the lowest common denominator person. That I don't do stock stuff very often, so... Okay, no, what I mean by protect... I mean protect the lowest common denominator person. That's what I thought you meant. Oh, yeah, no, so, like, that's why... I'm including myself in that. Oh, I see, I see, I see. Because I don't... I'm not super informed on stock stuff.

Okay, but lowest common denominator... No, I would not consider you to be lowest common denominator. Lowest common denominator is more referring to the capability or the, like... Okay. Or the, like or the methodology that someone might use to approach something. Okay. And you have to make sure that you're protecting the people. So you're protecting like stock do good by stock?

Yeah, like people who are like that because they need to know that something's being manipulated. But you also can't stop a company from buying back their stock because of... No. Another thing too is that if the executives own a bunch of stock... If the stock is dipping, this might be a good time for them to buy if they think it's going to come back eventually. Buy back or buy back so that the stock doesn't dip too far so they can sell theirs for a good value before it, everyone clues in and it, like, really dips.

That also makes sense. So, anyway. I could see why someone could maybe argue that it's, like, not a great thing that they're covering up the stock dipping. Totally understand that. I don't, I wouldn't agree that they, like, shouldn't be allowed to do it or something because it's fair. I mean, this is obviously not something that would work for the very long term.

You know, eventually you run out of cash to buy back stock. Especially with this increase. Like, the first year's increase was over $7 billion. Yep. And then the next one was, what, like, around just under $3 billion. But, I mean, I would be very surprised if Intel doesn't come back swinging hard in the next two to four years And maybe this helps them ride out that Ride out that dip. Yeah

All right speaking of speaking of riding. Let's go ahead and have a look at The results of our poll here and then sponsors and then sponsors right yes, we should do that All right, you guys are finding out at the same time as me. What's up? I've updated it a few times. It's been tied every time. Yep. Okay.

Internet. So are we being trolled? Are we being trolled, Colton? I don't think we're being trolled. You don't think we're being trolled? The community thinks. It's a tough call. They think small one, big one, small one.

It really does look like a middle finger, doesn't it? Yes. Yes, that's what you were thinking. That's what you see when you look at that. A long, hard... Just a gigantic, indifferent... Middle finger. I'm making this decision for you.

All right. Let's give it the old refresh. I mean, this is not going to get more helpful. And for your reference, I did refresh it a few times, and they were tied every time. The indifference column got a little smaller, so I think the excitement about the poll decreased. But the yes and no

columns were tied the whole time. I was really hoping for a much clearer indicator. I mean, I might as well have just gotten a magic eight ball and been like, yo, what should I do? Sup? Maybe. Future outlook not so good, you know?

Yeah. Okay. Well, now what? Should we just take it offline and figure it out? There's a winner. You gotta refresh. There's a winner? Okay.

I mean, I don't know that I would necessarily consider 1% to be a winner. Yeah, I... It a winner. Yeah. It's meaningless. This is like clearly divided the community here. I think we need to put more thought into it.

What do you think? I'm not trying to put words in your mouth. What do you think? You guys should like rap battle each side. Honestly, having actually sat through the entire interview words in your mouth what do you think i guess you'd like rap battle each side honestly having having actually sat through the entire interview that i did with them this morning um i felt pretty good about the direction they were going um i mean i'm still committed to letting the community decide unfortunately i don't have a good way to allow them to decide what if you

remove indifferent without leaving it open to well the people have to redo it and some people are legitimately indifferent yeah no i don't want to take away that vote if people just don't care like that's good right but the difference between the 22 and the 23 will be more noticeable if that column of dump votes isn't there. I see. Okay. I mean, it might end up being like, oh, it's a 2% difference now. Like, it might not be meaningful.

I was expecting, like, a landslide in either direction. I was, too, to be honest. I was expecting there to be strong opinions. I didn't know which way it would swing. This was the last possible thing that I could have expected. Yep, me too. Um, okay, we're gonna have to give it some more thought. This was like my master plan.

This was my- I thought it was gonna work. I was like excited for like how conclusive this was going to be. Yeah. I was excited to not have to make a decision. Honestly. The community was just like, no! This is on you! Yeah. So uh- just like, no. This is on you. Yeah.

So. You have to decide. Got people saying NordVPN, they've had their own issues. Like, right around the same time, they had a really stupid scandal. Was it right before, I think? Yeah. Yeah. All right. I guess we'll just have to figure it out on our own then.

Go watch the unlisted video our own then go watch the Unlisted video. Yeah, go watch the unlisted video. See if you feel any differently honestly, i'm not going to be able to keep looking at these numbers though because The longer this sits up there the easier it would be for someone to go in and try to manipulate it with a bunch Of zombie accounts or whatever the case may be. So i was actually just gonna say do I leave the poll up? Just you can leave it up just for lols, I guess. I don't know. No, just lock it.

Okay. Yeah, I'm just gonna, no, it's okay. I think I can lock it. You do have the power, I believe. Do I have the power to lock it? No, I can only delete it. You can't lock a poll. Yeah, you can delete it.

What a feature-rich, wonderful website, YouTube. Thank you very much for building this spectacular video sharing platform. You said that, Nick? Yeah. Oh, yeah, Nick. Hey, Jayden, when's it coming, dude? Yeah. All right.

It's literally his own thing. I'm deleting it. He just has, like, this amazing, yeah. Come on, Jayden. All literally his own thing. I'm deleting it. I was like this amazing. Yeah Come on. All right get the dust screw it. Let's do let's do our let's do our sponsors. Oh I'm so unhappy right now because I was just expecting that to be the answer. Okay brought to you by honey Join honey comm slash Linus honey is the free shopping tool that finds the best promo codes wherever you shop online at sites like Amazon, eBay, Newegg, Razor, Best Buy, Walmart, and

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It's free. Joinhoney.com slash Linus. They make their money from the retailers you shop at, not from you, which is pretty sweet. The show is also brought to you today by Squarespace. Don't worry, the space doesn't have to be square. It can be any form of rectangle you want. Oh.

Phone size screen. Oh my. Okay, widescreen. Oh, geez. Square screen. They can do square. Do you need to create a beautiful website without the hassle? Well, check out Squarespace.

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So go to squarespace.com slash WAN. We're going to have that linked down below. And use offer code WAN to save 10%. WAN right now. One quick thing before you go on to the next one. Yes. Floatplane, there's a poll for just you brought to you by float plane there's a poll for just what sorry someone in the float plane chat came with the idea that the float plane viewers probably an increased amount of vpn

users probably a little bit more hardcores and stuff maybe we should see what should we just let float plane decide okay you know what screw it... Should we just let Floatplane decide? Okay, you know what? Screw it. I'm just going to let Floatplane decide. Okay, do you have it up on your screen? I do. I want it revealed to me at the same time as you.

Let's do it. They're still voting, but this one's a lot more clear. Okay. Hey, 69, nice. This one is significantly more clear. There's still votes coming in, as you see, but the percentages are roughly staying the same. What's also nice about the floatplane one is it's far less likely to have people

with ready-to-go accounts to spam anything. Oh, like YouTube account things? Yeah, these are paid accounts, so we know that these are actually legitimately real people. People are unlikely to have a duplicate account for Floatplane. I mean, you can if you want. Thank you very much. But I think that's not really a normal use case.

Actually, another Floatplane-related matter. I did not realize that we were uploading our videos in 1080p quality. Yeah. So yeah, we're going to switch to 4K. I actually enabled the 4K tier. Yeah on floatplane Assuming that everything we uploaded was like at 4k source quality. I Didn't realize that we weren't so we're working on that. We're getting that getting that sorted out. Okay

And I have another only sort of floatplane related piece of news. Channel Superfun, the one, the only. Okay, so quick, quick, just before we go on. Someone in the floatplane audience is a butt and leaked this. Oh, no, I leaked this. You showed my screen. It showed the URL.

Oh, well, that's okay. They had already answered. Okay, you know what? That's it. Okay, the floatplane audience is perfect. That's it. That was us. The answer is done. perfect. That's it. That was us. The answer is done.

Yeah. YouTube says maybe. Floatplane says yes. So floatplane people, because we know you're real people. I am done. Conclusive. 60% of the time it works every time. We're going with the floatplane conclusion.

Okay, big news. This is like the biggest news ever. Channel super fun. Okay. Display capture. This is like the biggest news ever. Channel super fun. Okay. Display capture. Oh, oh. Sure. Okay.

Everything here good? What are you trying to? I want to show Floatplane. Okay. Okay. So, okay. Oh, boy. I'm sorry, Floatplane.

Oh, I'm sorry, everyone. That's very awful. What are we doing? All right. We are looking at. I'm sorry, Floatplane. Oh, I'm sorry everyone, that's very awful. What are we doing? All right, we are looking at Linus Tech Tips on Floatplane. And we are looking at the return of the one, the only, Channel Super Fun! Please play. Way to go, Luke.

Awkward. There it is. Hooray awkward there it is hooray There it is look at this guy look at this guy look his hairlines receding what a loser Basically we did like a paper airplane challenge of some Don't worry about it Don't worry about it. You know there's's no worries. There's just, you know, go check it out. It's good stuff. Hold on. Let me just fix this. This is, oh, this is so broken. One moment, please. Yes, I wish to remove. Yeah, I had more back. Watch the

video. It's going to be great. Channel Superfund's back dog. Colton, me, and Jono were heavily involved. It's going to be a blast. You guys are going to love it. The whole floatplane chat is just roasting me right now. Oh, why? Because I tried to roast them, but it was actually our fault. Oh, yeah, well. Oof.

That's fair. That's fair. You know what? That's fair. You win this round. Also, last sponsor for the show. Displate. A Displate is a magnet-mount mounted metal print with art. It's

durable and you don't need any power tools to hang it. They've got over a quarter million different art spanning a bunch of different styles and influences. Easy magnetic mounting so there's no holes in the wall and it's easily replaceable. They plant a tree for every display purchased and we can show our portraits page Let me just bring that up. Whoops. Well, that's not the right page. There it is a And it's loaded Five displays by Linus Sebastian. I actually did not create those but people on our team did look at this look at this Riley guy

Hey, they got his shirt wrong. He works for TechLinked. Actually he does, he does LTT stuff all the time. So Displate guys, go check him out. You can get 15% off using code LTT at the link below. So that's lmg.gg slash DisplateWen. Aight, what else we got for big important topics today ah tesla removing software features from used cars i was actually reading about this it's interesting so there's a model s sold at auction the guy bought it with the understanding that it had the uh full autopilot feature and then i think there was one other one um yeah autopilot was advertised as a feature and oh the story

here says the previous owner paid $8,000 for it but the article that I read about it was Tesla was saying that actually we were doing an audit and this car was not entitled to autopilot in the description of work it says autopilot was removed on November 18th 2019 after it was found that the customer did not purchase the software. So basically the car updated to the latest version and autopilot was removed after this customer bought a car that supposedly had autopilot. Yeah.

So, oh man. This is brutal. I'm trying to see if there's, like, an official statement or an update or anything like that to see if there's something along what you said, but I don't see anything. So there's a couple ways to look at this. One is, like, obviously you don't get the Steam library that was logged in when you buy a laptop. Obviously. Well, hold on. No, no, think for a second, though.

What if someone sold their Tesla? Okay. No, no, hold on. No, no a second though what if someone sold their tesla okay no no hold on no no i'm going somewhere with this okay stop stop okay okay so i am a model s owner okay hypothetically sure i'm a model s owner yeah and i'm gonna sell my Model S. And I'm like, you know what? Model S, that's for chumps. I'm getting the Model X. X rated. Big, you know? Big X. Big X. Indifferent.

Yeah, sure. So from my perspective, as a Tesla customer who bought some $8,000 software upgrade for my car, maybe I want to take that with me Okay, okay, but hold on hold on hold on. I'm going somewhere with this. I'm going somewhere with this. Just can you calm down? No I can tell, he looks externally like he's calm That's why I keep telling him to relax because I can tell Right below the surface right a millimeter below the surface,

he's gonna explode, he's dynamite, he's a dynamite kind of guy. All right, so I wanna take my autopilot with me. Why should I have to pay for a software feature that I already paid for? So in that case, if I were to say, hey, I think that Tesla should license their advanced driving features to the user rather than the car,

I would have at least some ground to stand on. Now, I've been playing devil's advocate this entire time because I think this is ridiculous. But why don't you go ahead and... If it was licensed to the user and it was made very clear that that was the arrangement that they had, which is not how it works at all, I think that would be its own conversation. Yeah. It's tied to the car. So the Steam library argument doesn't really like,

No, no, it doesn't. Make any sense. It was just for us to be able to have a conversation. Sure, about like, hey, in an alternate reality, this could be weird, but interesting, just because like, it could be tied to the user, not the car, and they could go to a car that doesn't support It and then it's like uh yes, so that

That is really the problem with the entire argument I would maybe like go into your buddy's car and log in and it's like Hey, let's all share the same account. Now that, hold on a second. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. So you want to drive your friend around because you have better features in your car? Hold on a minute.

No, because it's an autopilot feature. I ain't driving. Nobody's driving. Okay. Okay. So I think people who are being realistic, and I'm sorry to everyone who this is very bad news for you. I'd hate to be the bearer of bad news uh for people who are being realistic i think the future of people not owning cars is pretty clear at this point yeah um cars as a service is happening i'm so sorry i'm so sorry

um they're grieving right now it'll be there when you wake up. It'll just have been somewhere else while you're asleep That's right. So cars as a service that's coming whoa So I'm just using some fleet of autonomous cars or whatever. Oh I as a user License better features now. I'm not saying I like this as a user Wow I'm just saying it's brilliant as a user. Wow. I'm just saying. That's brilliant and horrible.

From the fleet management perspective. You can have all the same car. If they just have basic cars, and then, so hold on. Okay, oh my goodness. This is like next level stuff. Obviously, Mr. Musk figured this out 10 years ago, and that's like why he's pushing so hard

for all this crap. But, okay. So here's the dynamic okay you've got the car as a service service provider and i know tesla wants to be one of them they want to be vertically integrated but let's say they don't reach complete saturation so you've got the car as a service service provider you've got tesla you've got the end user so now you've got all these different licensing options to work together on as Tesla and the car as a service company, right? So either Tesla can go, hey, you know,

we're gonna offer users directly the option to license air conditioning, for example, okay? We're gonna license air conditioning. We're gonna license, you know, the ability to go more than 100 miles at a time or whatever the case may be. And then the cars as a service company is gonna go, well, no, hold on a second. How about this? How about we bulk license some percentage of our fleet based on, in much the same way

that you would, shoot, I'm missing the word, provision, in much the same way that you would provision a server. So where you would oversell the hardware that's actually on the machine based on that not all of it will be used at a time. So the car as a service company is like, okay, 30% of our fleet is gonna have,

you know, music, better music quality, you know, some better codec or whatever, so it sounds better. Sure, sure. Right? I'm just trying to come up with features that you could give and take away. The feature right now is not that important. The idea is important. Yeah, it's just the idea.

So we're going to license that from you, and then we're going to charge a higher tier to the people who want access to those features under the assumption that we will never have more than 30% of our fleet deployed with these higher tier users. And so there's all these different ways that they could work together to make sure that people don't own anything. Yeah. That pretty much. That sucks.

It's brilliant. Yeah. They're going to make so much money. Yeah, that pretty much, that sucks. It's brilliant. Yeah. They're going to make so much money, like so much more money than selling people cars. Like selling people cars at this point is like the worst business to get into. I mean, that's why nobody is doing it. Like you might say, oh, Tesla. No, no, no.

Tesla's not getting into the business of selling people cars. They're getting into the business of being an energy solutions provider, part of which is automobiles. And they're getting into the business of autonomous vehicle fleet sales and management. Because the problem with selling people cars is that you only get paid once. And that is not the way of the future, for better or for worse. And not only that, but it comes with so much overhead. And we know from a conversation we had, I'm assuming one or two months ago at this point, that taxi company that had Teslas, do you remember that?

Like 300,000 miles, no major repairs. Yeah. So if you have that, if you have fleet mechanics, and you have repair infrastructure, which I'm sure they have, where they can swap engines, they can swap batteries, they can do whatever they need to keep these things going way more cheaply than an end user would be able to. Yep. And then you're licensing them out and you get hundreds and hundreds and hundreds

of thousands of kilometers on these things instead of like i don't know what the average amount of kilometers someone starts to replace a car is but instead of that you get way freaking more yeah people are so in denial in america we own things do you do you do you do you buy movies still do you buy movies still do Do you buy movies still? Do you have physical copies of games still? Do you have CDs? Do you own any CDs? Oh, boy.

Yeah. So I'm sorry. I'm sorry that that was hard to hear. But, man, it is going to. Like, I wonder. I honestly wonder. My kids are still not even close to the age where they would legally be allowed to drive yeah and in much the same way that i sort of would marvel at how my parents just knew their way around like driving i was like why don't you just use go maps you know like right i wonder if

there's going to be another generational gap that soon why are you still driving the car why are you operating a steering wheel who even needs to do that what that's stupid like it's a waste of my brain cells to even just like i was just gonna say read yeah watch something a video. That took a sec. Oh, hey, Nick, I got a question for you, and then you can jump in. Also, I'm sure there's a ton of people being like, I own records! And yeah, there will be people like that with cars. Yeah, absolutely.

And they can take their cars to the track once manually operated vehicles are no longer legal on roads. Don't kid yourself. That will happen. Might be a long time i think linus thinks this is gonna happen in like 15 years and it's actually gonna happen in like 50 yeah 50 is fine no i know i'm not saying 15 years i'm saying that it will be an option in 15 years and then it will become mainstream because the thing is the only way for big changes like these to happen are through people dying and being born people who remember the old way die and people who never knew any other way and in the morning I have to swap over and like the like shipping industry and

stuff in terms of like trucks and everything is gonna completely swap because they'll see reliable so like yeah industries will change and restandardize to this entirely everything trickles down for the enterprise yeah not enterprise theles down from the enterprise. Not enterprise, the car rental company. Everything in the world trickles down from the enterprise car rental. I heard they pick you up.

Putty's the best spokesman ever. Jacob Salmon says, would a limited run LTX disc plate at LTX be something we could see in the future? Yeah, we're already... We have it designed for LTX posters already. Okay. Well, yeah, I think people would like to buy them there. There you go.

I mean, well, disc plates, I don't know. Oh, okay. But something. Something. All right. What can I do for you, sir? Talk about LTT Store. LTTStore.com!

LTTStore.com! Have you heard the good news about LTTstore.com? I actually did talk about LTTstore.com. Oh, this is great. I think it was like one of the first things we said. Did you mean LTTstore.com? I did. I love Trace.

Dang it, not that one. What's that Beat Saber person? Otter something? Space Otter? Otterworldly. Otterworldly? Like the top comment on their video is after all that workout you should get a water bottle i did see that comment it has 2 000 upvotes

yeah what are you doing upvoting things you should just be buying water bottles you guys should send them a water bottle so sorry what's the good news i don't know know. It's a store. You buy stuff. Get out of here. It's a store. Get out of here. I know what it is. This is how we're going to pay for our cars as a service subscription. We need a water bottle subscription. Oh my God. You could have that be, you could have that be a company benefit. Is your service for your morning work pickup and your afternoon work drop-off could be covered by your company yep and that would be a way for the company to be like you're gonna be here on time and the executive package could include like it takes your kids to school too or whatever yeah say i'm carving out that i'm carving out that they could have discounts for for for like company fleets. Man. Absolutely. It could automatically adjust based on schedules input by the company. Well, just like Uber, you'd have surge pricing during the times when everyone's commuting,

and it would be cheaper. So you're going to have companies offset their hours by five minutes and stuff like that. That would also help overall traffic. Yep, absolutely. But yeah, if you were on a somewhat variable schedule, it could just automatically change it so you know what's going on. Your car could inform you when you need to go to work. Do you speak from experience?

Variable schedule? It's like hardly ever here. I do not have appropriate facilities. All I'm saying is if you voted no on the poll to continue working with PIA, you better go over to LTTstore.com and support us directly. Put your money where your mouth is. Okay, all right, all right, all right, all right. I'm hard trolling.

Okay, Wired.com. This is great, I guess. Well, after the announcement from Adobe that they were killing off Flash, Ben Lattimore at BlueMaxima on Twitter has saved over 38,000 Flash games in a behemoth torrent as part of Flashpoint, a web game preservation product. So sites like Newgrounds, AddictingGames.com. That was my weapon of choice. AddictingGames.com? Yeah, me too.

100%. Millions of people went to play and publish games that influenced generations. I think that's probably overstating it a little bit. Generation. influenced generations. I think that's probably overstating it a little bit, but. Generation. He started in, yeah, he started in 2017 with a group of programmers and curators

when he realized there was no historical archive for these games, animations, and experiments. So the Flashpoint project is currently 241 gigabytes and includes all the media files and a launcher. There's also a launcher only download that allows you to install individual games. So the video game designers behind celebrated titles like Crypt of the Necromancer, Hollow Knight,

and Super Meat Boy all got their start noodling around with Flash. This highlights the importance of digital archiving because we could lose a lot of the cultural history of the internet. In fact, one of the games on addictinggames.com that was like my go-to was a little simple Flash game called Pearl Harbor.

So you were a, um, you were a plane and you, I forget what the flight mechanics were, but you had to dip for some reason you had to dip and then come up for some reason. Sure. And there were ships down below and you had like a limited number of bombs and you were, you just advanced through levels, very simple game, but it was fun. Just one day, was off the site. If I had to guess, I would say someone got uncomfortable with Japanese planes bombing American ships or something. That's just my guess. I don't know.

Maybe someone out there is watching. Maybe this will be like that Supreme Commander risk map where the entire community was like, hey, yo, you should update it, and you did, and then we played it we should play it again sometime anyway, so it just disappeared and I was like, oh, well

I can never play that game again well that blows speaking of not owning things the first picture they have on the article on PC Gamer is, I don't actually see it say this in here, but I'm certain it's Stick RPG. This game was so cool.

Like, I just... Oh, I remember Stick RPG. Yeah, I played Stick RPG. Stick RPG was amazing. Stick RPG was sweet. Like, I think everyone played Stick RPG. I don't remember there being a ton of content. No, there wasn't.

I remember it getting kind of boring pretty fast. It was. Yeah. But, like, it was really cool at the time. Yeah. And for the time, I mean, it had a decent amount of content for a web game, for a browser game. It was pretty limited.

I don't even remember anything you could do. It was, like, kind of dumb. You could go to the bar and you could fight. Yeah. Or I think throw a gamble somehow. You could go work out. There was a job that you could go to I do remember you can get a job And you could like talk to that

Like dude outside of the convenience store you remember this really well and get like a skateboard how much stick RPG Did you play? Probably a lot. I don't really remember. It's been a long time I just well looking at this picture like I got hit in the face with like oh yeah all this stuff i probably put like half an hour into it it sounds like it sounds like you were hardcore yeah i think i like beat it or something i don't know if there is really an ending but i don't know i took it very far i remember that um last topic for today xbox says nintendo and sony are no longer their main rivals okay i gotta i gotta jump into one thing that says in here uh phil spencer said that's not to disrespect nintendo and sony but their traditional

gaming companies are somewhat out of position. So Mr. Spencer knows that content is king, right? Is he aware? Does he know that? Did he get the memo? Did he get the memo that the PlayStation absolutely killed the Xbox this time around? Maybe that's why they're not competition. That's one interpretation.

I actually like the direction Microsoft and Xbox have kind of been going with gaming for a while now. Yep. The Microsoft Game Pass thing is actually pretty cool. And cross-licensing between PC and the Xbox console. I think they've been making a lot of good steps. I don't think that means

that the traditional gaming companies are out of position. And I don't think that means... I think not to disrespect, while probably good intentioned, was not a very good way to start that sentence. I just, I don't know. You are still definitely in competition with those guys.

Even if only part of your business sector is in competition with them. You're freaking Microsoft. You have only part of your business sector is in competition with them you're freaking microsoft you have a lot of different business sectors you're like project x cloud thing that's invite only is probably more in competition with nvidia than amazon and google at this point because google stadia is apparently not really going anywhere yeah judging by how google does everything they will probably just drop it. I don't know. Or they'll carry it forever.

Yeah, they've had a shocking amount of patience for some stuff that's just kind of terrible. Either it will never die, but it will never go anywhere, or it will completely disappear randomly. And maybe Amazon will actually do something. They are pushing a ton of money into that LOTR MMO, so maybe you are going to end up going against them, but, like, I don't know.

I don't think... I think that statement's a little misguided. That's all, that's what I'll say there. So, yeah, now considers Amazon and Google top rivals. Google entered the home gaming market, et cetera. Amazon and Apple offer games on their app stores. Apple offers a monthly subscription. They do not currently offer a cloud gaming service.

I mean, the thing is that... Neither does Microsoft. It's invite only. A lot of technology is being built around cloud gaming. And I think that there's going to be a lot of time for Nintendo to step in and compete in that market once it's a little bit more mature. I feel like they're going to Disney Plus the whole market. Nintendo?

Yeah. Do you know what I mean by that? Oh, content king. Yeah. So they just go, okay, you know what? Everyone else is like game streaming service. That's quaint. That's nice.

Good job, you guys. We'll come in late to the party. Come in late to the party. Come in late to the party. And everyone will go, wow, I really wish I could play that gigantic, massive, epic amount of Nintendo games. Endless library of Nintendo games. Guess I'll just switch my subscription over to that. Yep. Yeah, they could easily do that.

I mean, not easily. I mean, the funny thing about Nintendo is they just like... They're slow about stuff. Man, like even multiplayer. And they're not very good at like internet. It took them forever, you know? They're not very good at internet things. They're not.

I feel like... But I could see them doing it late. They'd have to be able to figure it out at some point, you know? I think they will. I mean, they have enough money to buy the Earth and all the heavens. But that's why I said Disney Plus it. Because Netflix has been around and dominating for a long time. Yeah, that's true.

And then Prime came in and was around for a long time before Disney Plus actually entered. So Nintendo could enter many years late, and I still think they would dominate the second they showed up on the scene. All right. We have time for a handful of Super Chats today. Thanks, Thomas Jorgensen.

Thanks, YourAverageTech. What's the average amount of bandwidth you recommend I get for my Minecraft? Someone on Fullplane Chat said, Nintendo's a dead horse that needs to be buried. No. Nintendo's a what? Dead horse that needs to be buried. They're doing fantastic.

Yeah, they're doing just fine. And honestly, the Switch is amazing. 100 million Switches or something stupid like that? Some crazy amount. Ridic, the Switch is amazing. 100 million Switches or something stupid like that? Some crazy amount. Ridiculous. Switch is doing amazing. They got their fitness thing back because Ring Fit is actually doing really well. It is apparently, like, very fun.

Like, that's cool. They figured it out. They dropped that on the Wii U. They picked it back up again. All right. I have no idea how much bandwidth you need for your Minecraft server. It really just depends how many people connect to it But what about dedicated RAM?

Uh-huh, what dedicated RAM as opposed to much kind of dedicated RAM does he need for his Minecraft? So what I don't understand that reference He didn't ask that I know it's oh, it's a joke. Don't worry about it Multiple people in chat get it. It's fine. Thanks petrotsky 2007 Thanks, James. Whack What else we got here? multiple people in chat get it it's fine thanks petrotsky 2007 thanks James Huak what else we got here big hello from Terrace BC hey hey menage Mahindran says since subscribing 2012 pretty much watched most of your videos what do you mean most really cool to see your company's growth and the 10 million

subscription was in surrey for christmas thought about gate crashing um that probably wouldn't be best just throwing that out there um thank you for not doing that uh ricardo says lived in kamloops in the early 2000s wish i was enjoying the cold there with you guys um thank you very much and yeah it's been sort of lame um actually it's been a little warmer the last little bit but then it got kind of cold again mostly it's the wet the wet sucks on the on the um in the pacific northwest all right uh brian says cars of service won't work in rural without solutions uh well yeah they will they will come up with solutions. And as always, things will take longer to roll out in rural areas. I mean, we might need to wait until cars have, you know, 1,000, 2,000-mile range or whatever the case may be.

Or there might be adapted solutions for rural areas where, you know, instead of a standard car, it's like an extended, extended, extended range model that's basically, you know, the entire trunk and hood is just full of batteries. You know, whatever the solution is. There will be a solution. They'll figure it out. But, you know, whatever it is, whether we're talking paved roads, broadband internet, it's always taken longer to roll out to rural communities.

I was just going to say. And it always shows up eventually. I'm not talking in my lifetime. I'm talking in the amount of time that I have made YouTube videos with the Linus tech tips channel People related to me have lived on farmland that they had to trickle download the videos Over like the course of over a day. Yeah, because they're all like dial up. Yeah, they could watch it Now they have brought it now. They probably it happens over time could watch it now they have broadband now they have broadband it happens over time all right speaking of happening every time the show has to end eventually every time 60 of the time so thank

you guys for tuning in we'll see you again next week same bad time same bat channel bye i wonder if at some point i'm gonna get in trouble for that maybe and that would be an issue because it's on like every one yeah i know we'd have to just like pull the entire WAN show. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, oh, wait, no, I have to stop this one first.