The WAN Show - Sharing our Own Troubling Experience - WAN Show Jun 11, 2021

Episode Date: June 14, 2021

Visit https://www.squarespace.com/WAN and use offer code WAN for 10% off Buy a Seasonic Ultra Titanium PSU On Amazon: https://geni.us/q4lnefC On NewEgg: https://lmg.gg/8KV3S Learn more about MSI's CLUTCH GM41 Wireless Gaming Mouse at https://lmg.gg/gm41 Buy on Amazon at (PAID LINK): https://geni.us/8RPQ Check out Other Podcasts: Carpool Critics Movie Podcast: https://lmg.gg/carpoolcritics Timestamps (Courtesy of Timmy Fox) 00:00:33 – Topics overview – 00:01:22 – Bad pun 00:01:39 – Intro – 00:02:00 – Sponsor overview 00:02:11 – HardwareUnboxed...except not 00:03:40 – HardwareUnboxed's LG review drama – 00:04:00 – LG CNS tangent – – 00:06:10 – Possible benefits of the company split – 00:07:13 – Last minute release embargo – – 00:07:35 – Intel embargo email – – 00:08:11 – It is not usual to add embargos after reviewing the product – – 00:09:48 – HardwareUnboxed never agreed to any embargo – – 00:10:17 – HardwareUnboxed's review was very positive – – 00:10:55 – LG reaching out – 00:11:07 – Remembering Youtube annotations – 00:12:00 – HardwareUnboxed's response – 00:12:44 – LG's further imposed embargos – 00:14:35 – Who is LG CNS? – 00:15:57 – Buzzword Bingo – 00:16:41 – LG's response – 00:18:17 – Linus' thoughts – – 00:18:47 – Trying to find a document – – 00:19:18 – Linus' actual point – – 00:21:08 – Can you imagine that? – – 00:24:30 – In the context of the global silicon shortage – – 00:25:08 – Shoutout to Jarrod's tech – 00:25:42 – Back to LG's guidelines – 00:28:32 – The problem – 00:29:47 – Moving on even further – – 00:30:37 – A review cannot be a paid review – 00:31:17 – LG kept digging – 00:32:27 – LG made a 180 – – 00:32:54 – What Linus wants to know – 00:34:13 – Summary and things to keep in mind – – 00:35:26 – Where companies run into problems – – 00:36:07 – Sponsored content when the product is included – – 00:37:58 – Luke weighing in – 00:38:54 – The most ridiculous thing about this – 00:40:34 – HardwareUnboxed did the right thing 00:41:19 – WWDC discussion – 00:42:09 – Colin's comment – 00:42:48 – Linus' Uncle's story – 00:43:39 – Lack of T9 dialing – 00:45:49 – What drives Linus crazy – 00:46:44 – How Luke gets paid – 00:47:28 – Facetime – 00:49:27 – Value of getting kids using your tech – 00:50:18 – Linus needs to buy a Chromebook 00:53:17 – Sponsors 00:55:10 – LTT Sad Linus sequin pillow launch – Large CPU pillows back in stock (00:57:38) 00:57:15 – Tesla Model S Plaid / Games in a Tesla – 00:57:38 – Tangent: Large CPU pillows back in stock – 00:58:38 – Back on topic – 01:00:10 – Compared to Android Auto – 01:02:20 – Tesla's claims – 01:03:37 – Would you game on this? – 01:04:58 – Luke's screen complaints – 01:06:09 – Linus' alternate take – 01:06:33 – Further thoughts – 01:09:30 – Discussion about how expensive it is 01:14:30 – Windows 10 being retired 01:15:58 – El Salvador adopting Bitcoin 01:17:38 – Superchats 01:20:43 – Update on 3080 & 3080 TI prices equalizing – 01:23:54 – Repeating what was said in the reviews – 01:24:19 – Linus' question – 01:24:59 – Linus never said it's a good value – 01:25:20 – Linus' question (cont.) – 01:27:57 – Would you rather market or manufacturer setting the price? 01:28:23 – Closing comments and extra superchats – 01:28:47 – LGBT comments – 01:29:51 – "Bye" + Outro – 01:30:14 – One more thing – 01:31:01 – "Bye" x2 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

You know what's great about ambition? You can't see it. Some things look ambitious, but looks can be deceiving. For example, a runner could be training for a marathon, or they could be late for the bus. You never know. Ambition is on the inside. So that goal to beat your personal best?

Keep chasing it. Drive your ambition. Mitsubishi motors is it live yet i can't tell because uh youtube just signed me out and we are live welcome ladies and gentlemen to the wan show we've got a fantastic show for you guys this week i think my google docs and my YouTube dashboard just got signed out right as I hit the button to start the show. So Luke's going to give us the big topics for the week. He's going to do all four of them for a change.

There's a lot of pressure, but I think he has the experience and the knowledge. I love it. First off, we've got WWDC. There was a bunch of new software releases from Apple. Something's exciting. Something's exciting with a tinge of disappointment. And we'll get into that later. Also, LG attempts to bribe Hardware Unboxed for a favorable review.

Interesting. Spicy. And there's some experience from the LTT team that is going to be revealed here as well to add more to the story which is very interesting yeah i do like it we can do that yeah add add more to it instead of just comment on it it's always nice yeah um moving on the mad lad actually did it apparently cyberpunk is running on a tesla also windows 10 is going to be retired eventually uh no one called that when they said windows 10 is going to be retired eventually uh no one called that when they said windows 10 was going to last forever every single person on the planet was just like yep that's

definitely gonna work would you say would you say that it's thinking of retiring oh my god All right, let's go ahead and roll that intro. Oh, oh crap. That's not the right thing. There. and the show is brought to you today by squarespace c sonic and msi oh yeah all right why don't we jump right into the hardware unbox topic you know luke i asked for so little this week you know what i asked for this week i asked for a positive wan show that's all i wanted i wanted a wan show that was just full of good news so that i could just sit here and go boy gosh howdy darn do i ever love technology and everything about it and this is all just good stuff that i am excited to tell you about

that is what i wanted luke is that what i got no no there was a rhetorical it was a rhetorical question i expected you to sit silently like you always do on the show like a good boy but that was not it was not what i got honestly you you wanted you wanted a a happy wan show full of happy topics and i wanted a wan show where i would have things to add to it and we got the longest topic i've seen forever about lg and their influence on reviewers and i'm just like wow great well i mean your memories working with them was always pretty good i think right yeah but i i haven't worked with them in forever, but... Yeah, and the thing is... My memory with them was totally fine. Companies are made of people, and literally nobody that we worked with at LG

when Luke was working on reviews still interacts with us from LG. I mean, it's possible they're still there, but certainly they aren't who we interact with, and they probably aren't who Hardware Unboxed was interacting with, because they would have known better than to pull this kind of nonsense so hardware unboxed made a video i think it was a couple of days ago now yesterday i don't know it doesn't matter the point is while they

were reviewing lg's 27 gp 850 so that's their new high performance 27 inch gaming display their reviewer received a last minute email from l CNS. Okay, here's where we're going to go off on our first tangent. LG CNS is not technically the same company as LG Electronics. And then while we're at it, LG Display is actually also not the same company as LG Electronics. Okay, so LG Display makes panels that they then sell to LG Electronics. Oh, but wait, also other companies. So LG Display might make panels for, say, Sony. You know how Sony has a really bright OLED?

We actually did a video about it recently. You know how Sony has a really bright OLED. We actually did a video about it recently Well, it's just an LG Second-gen panel the same as LG has in their g1, but then you know Sony did their own tuning They had added an additional cooling layer that allows it to get brighter and so, you know They added their own technology to it. But at the end of the day, it's so weird, right? It's like whoa LG It's so weird, right? It's like, whoa, LG. LG's selling TVs to Sony so that they can sell them. But actually, LG Display is a different company that does all the R&D on the display side, and LG Electronics actually goes and builds a monitor out of it or a TV out of it or whatever

the case may be. Now, LG CNS, technically a different company, but if you're a super smart individual with super two brain cells to run together run together to rub together you can probably figure out that lg cns the agency that works for lg that is a separate company is probably a lot closer to LG than, let's say, North Strategic, another PR company, would be to LG. Right? Like, their office probably is very close. Okay? And LG CNS, you know, probably works probably works mostly or only for LG. So basically, it's not uncommon for companies to create or like spin off separate portions of their business in this manner. I'm not 100% sure why. I mean, one benefit I could come up with immediately off the top of my head

is that it would allow different divisions of the company to use different agencies as they see fit. It would allow them to have different salary or different benefits packages for these like, you know, tier agency employees versus the like real LG employees who work for LG Electronics or LG Display. There's a lot of different reasons. It might be for liability purposes. If they were to get sued, say, for example, for some unethical thing that their agency did on their behalf,

it would be great if that agency was a separate company. So there's a few reasons I can come up with right off the top of my head for why a company might want to have a separate agency that is very separate, but is actually just named LG, but like not displays and not electronics. No, a totally different LG. All right. So let's move on a little bit. So LG CNS imposed a release embargo on the review in this last-minute email. So in our industry, usually a review embargo is decided upon before you even get information about the product. So NVIDIA or Intel, this is very typical. In fact, I will go find an Intel embargo email because they're usually pretty by the book about things. Hi Linus, we hope you are well. On this day as part of this thing,

Intel will share some details on its latest core processor and connectivity news. If you agree to hold an embargo until 7.30 p.m. Pacific time, we can provide the announcement in advance. We look forward to sharing more, and thanks as always for your interest in Intel. Very professional, very to the point. That's by the book. That's how you want to do these things. It is not usual for a company to tell you after you've already evaluated the product that there's an embargo. And there's a couple of reasons for that. Number one is that they would have no way

of preventing you from then publishing it because it was never part of the deal. And number two is that it would help prevent leaks, right? You wouldn't want a bunch of people who don't agree to your embargo to have the product on hand. So why would you want to send it to someone who hasn't agreed to your embargo? So already there's alarm bells going off here, right? Now, embargo dates can change, but that's

usually part of the original NDA or embargo agreement is they might say, okay, this is subject to change. They might push it out. They might pull it in. It doesn't happen such that they pull in the date very often, but we have seen it delayed. Say for example, there was a shipping delay and they couldn't actually launch the product on that day. They might say, oops, guys, can you hold your review for a couple days? And generally speaking, whether we're, whether we are actually obligated to through the letter of the law in the agreement or not, we would, we would typically comply with something like that because it's, it's not unreasonable. We understand the symbiotic relationship that the press has with hardware manufacturers. And for the most part, they understand it as well. They benefit

from us objectively evaluating their product, and we benefit from having early access to it so that we can evaluate the product. Okay. It's worth noting in this case, Hardware Unboxed never formally agreed to any embargo, so while the situation I talked about just now could be a common thing, I mean, not common, but it does happen from time to time, where the terms of the agreement might change and everything's amicable. In this case, there was no agreement. There was just, hey, by the way, embargo. Good luck with that.

So, okay. so okay um ultimately hardware on box released a very positive review of the 27 gp850 with one caveat being that the faster latency mode was quote unusable due to ghosting issues now a funny thing about that is that's a pretty normal thing to observe. I mean, Luke, have you ever seen a monitor that had like a faster ghosting, like overdrive setting that was usable? I don't think so. They're all terrible. Yeah, they're essentially garbage. Anyway, LG reached out to him after the video was released as they believed the testing methodology was slightly flawed.

Tim was able to verify the issue, so he cut a few seconds out of the video and left a clarification pinned in the comments. YouTube used to allow us to actually pin little stickers, annotations they were called. We could put little stickers with a little arrow at a certain timestamp in the video, and that would allow us to make corrections for things like this. Now, I mean,

we do have the edit feature, so that's definitely a plus, but we no longer have the ability to actually embed new information in the video once it's released. It's really frustrating, and Google's excuse is that the feature was not supported on mobile to which my response was I Mean do you or do you not make the mobile platform? Then support okay, so anyway, that's a whole that's a whole that's water under the bridge the point is These days that's pretty much all you can do is chop out a section if it kind of works with the video and leave a pinned comment chop out a section if it kind of works with the video and leave a pinned comment. So here's what Hardware Unbox pinned. Tim was the one who worked on this video. He said, update in the original version of this review we described the faster overdrive mode as unusable

but that was an error. While the response data shown in the video is correct we were also basing our assessment on an incorrect UFO test image not shown. The mode is in fact usable, but with some inverse ghosting visible. It's not unusable with significant inverse ghosting like we first thought. Overall, the mode is not as good as fast mode, which it never, ever, ever is and wasn't going to be. However, the faster mode is a lot better than what LG were offering previously in their 27GL850, so we don't feel unusable was appropriate wording. We've cut out a few seconds of the video. I think that's a very professional way of handling it. LG also provided the 32-inch version of the same monitor, which also received an after-the-fact

embargo that was lifted at the same time as the 27-inch model. They decided to space out the two videos, and before they could release the video on the 32 inch LG imposed another embargo on it with no firm end date and no disclosed reasoning several weeks went by no communication from LG until Tim reached out asking for an update as he'd already gone through the effort of reviewing the product and was just kind of waiting for it to be released because that's the thing you got to understand there's only so many people working on a product review i mean luke if i came to you and i was like look you got to get two videos done this week you got to get this review done and then you've got to get this like opinion about this thing or this goofy vlog where you where you duct tape network switches to a wall or whatever whatever the hell it is that you do with your time. Um, you got to get this stuff done and you went and you delivered me this review of a monitor that then I get an email

from the manufacturer and they go, Oh, Hey, um, sorry. It looks like you can't release that. You can't release it. I've got an upload slot. I only get so many of those. I mean, okay. Theoretically you can upload as many videos as you want, but algorithmically that will destroy your channel. Don't do that. So I only get so many upload slots and to have like even spacing, I might have sponsor commitments to a completely unrelated company, maybe Squarespace or Seasonic or something wanted to sponsor that video. And now they're hanging in limbo. So I'm not getting paid and they're not getting their marketing messaging out there that they sponsored me to to tell you guys about so everyone's you know having a real downer of a time here because lg can't keep their act together and figure out if they do or don't have an embargo so it's all

very inconvenient we've only scratched the surface we have not even started with how bad things get lg's quick thing if i can take a quick aside i want to go look up like okay lg cns like sure what exactly are these guys so you look them up at all um no i just they're just lg's agency that's just lg but in different like clothes so yeah that's what i was going to assume um oh if you check out their about us page it's like basically impossible to distinguish like what the heck like i i think i think they're trying to put across that they just like rlg because they say like okay we have a 212.8 billion KRW operating profit. We have over 6000 employees like, okay, that sounds like LG itself. But their statements at the top of

their about us page are just actually amazing. Like their big bolded tagline is lg cns shapes the future of our life and then the one immediately after that is we are dedicated to reinventing the way we live by applying innovative it solutions to all that exists all that exists yeah i've got display capture up so they can see this this is great this is fantastic you gotta get you gotta get all the big buzzwords in here okay let's play some buzzword bingo you ready luke blockchain cloud ai big data smart transportation iot robot i love the just robot and retail well it, it's robot services. Okay, it's robot services. I just meant I was going for buzzwords, okay? Oh, and I think they misspelled government.

Government. That's okay, though. That's okay, though. That's okay. You know what? I forgive them. They were trying very hard. Maybe they could have had some robot services,

double-check a cloud data center and use big data to, I don't know, use Gram grammarly or something uh point is the point is lg cns is is lg uh okay so anyway this is how they this is how lg replied to tim from hardware unbox sorry for making you wait things been decided about two to three days ago so there has been updates on 32EP850 specifically. There's an internal direction that all the 32EP850 has to be reviewed after the following guidelines. So, guideline for comparison is please avoid comparing to the 32GP, or please avoid comparing to 32GP, excuse me, GP, not EP. Avoid comparing with any of our past lg models instead we prefer comparison with any other brand's ips model that's out in the market

how nice for you ufo test as for the ufo test you need to get it on 180 hertz and set 960 pixels per second with middle graze pattern. And CR testing. If you'd like to test CR, so contrast ratio, please test in this mode. On screen display, picture adjust, gamma, mode 4. If your review of the 32GP850 contains nothing that would be against the guideline, please let me know. Otherwise otherwise few edits would be necessary also for this review we decided for all the reviewers to provide us with drafts we can definitely discuss about the additional compensation for sharing drafts let me know how you think on this and again thanks a lot for your patience here.

Okay. So I need to go on another little aside. Okay. I need to go on another little aside because for me, none of this is actually news. Believe it or not. For us, though, we actually had this interaction a lot earlier. So I'm actually, oh, you know what? I really should have pulled this up before we started the show. But where's my Monday morning writers meeting doc? Because I'm pretty sure I'm going to be able to find this. If I just search for like control F 850. Oh Oh Lordy, it's probably not going to load this entire doc.

This is a, this is a savagely long document because we usually just take our, our new writers meeting for the week and just plonk it at the top of it. So we like don't lose anything. Uh, okay. Hold on a second. Let's see if I can find it. No, I can't find it. I wish I had the timing. Unfortunately, I don't have it. The point is LG actually reached out to us prior to the launch of the 27-inch version and asked us if we would like an opportunity to review this monitor ahead of time. So we actually had an opportunity to review it quite early and we declined it. And the reason we declined it is not because we don't think it's a really important product.

We were actually really excited about the 27GP850 because it's the follow-up to LG's excellent 27-inch, 1 millisecond. You know, you can argue all day about whether the 1ms marketing is correct or not, but their 1ms IPS 27-inch gaming display. It was an excellent monitor, regardless of the fudge factor in the marketing. And we were really excited to see the follow-up, because as far as we could tell, it was basically going to be the gaming monitor to get for this year. But there was a caveat. It wasn't a sponsored video or anything like that. But in order to review the product, LG asked us to agree. And we didn't see anything about UFO test or contrast ratio testing in our communications. But they asked us to agree to not compare to the previous year's model, the one we really liked and um you know at risk of at risk

of souring things because i feel like this is just you know if lg doesn't like these things getting out there then they just need to not say them they just need to not do it um the reasoning that was provided to us for this request was that they were afraid that the demand for the new one, which supply when they might not be able to meet supply for would affect sales of the old one. Once we demonstrated how much better it was. Can you imagine? Can you imagine? Really? Can you imagine living inside the skull that wants to make sure that the media doesn't compare your new product to your old one for fear that it will come across too good that's yeah because pretty much this whole time i've been sitting here and wondering that specific

point because they're the oh like run this specific setting it's like okay whatever they found that it looked best like that and they want to make sure that you're presenting it in a way that makes their product look good because even though they shouldn't necessarily do that as a rule they can always give you suggestions and whatever that's maybe fine but the like don't review it against your previous product thing i've just been kind of scratching my head on this like oh yeah you can review you can you compare it against anyone else's product yeah but don't compare it against our own like what right like i get it now but like wow that's so twisted we've had i mean it's not like we've never had a manufacturer try to impose well apparently hardware and boxes in

the chat uh it's not like we've... Hey, guys. It's not like we've never had a manufacturer... EposVox is in there, too. What's up, y'all? We've had manufacturers try to impose restrictions on what we can compare a product against in a review. Every single time, we've told them to go f*** themselves because that's what you do.

But usually, they're trying to avoid an unfavorable comparison against a competing product that is better. That is almost always what they're trying to do. And sometimes it's more like, you know, trying to be big brain marketing executive. And other times it's just having a fundamental misunderstanding

of how the media works, right? Like they'll just think, oh, well, I am providing you products in exchange for marketing. So you should only compare what I want you to compare. Like they think you're like an Amazon reviewer or something where they can slip you a five and you get a positive review or something. It's no i don't i don't need your five bucks and i don't need your stupid motherboard or whatever i don't care um so so from so but but the thing is with those other rationales i at least can follow along you know yeah like i can kind of i can kind of say oh yeah okay i follow the logic here you just just don't want a bad comparison being made. In this case, they didn't want, and remember, I'm just going based on what they told us, right?

So I don't know if maybe the message got confused somewhere along the line because that does seem like a very confused kind of message. But that was legitimately, that was actually the logic that was provided to us for why we couldn't compare it. A lot of lack of understanding on like how consumerism works, I'd say. Because like if someone's super hyped about a particular product and they're unable to get it due to stock, they will often look for the most similar thing they can get, which in this case sounds like probably the previous generation of the same product. It's a fairly normal thing. Oh, that's so that's so on the point. That's so right, because you've got to remember, too, that this is in the context of a global electronic shortage by this point yeah you

literally couldn't buy the previous gen one either there wasn't a single gaming monitor on the shelf so it's like what are you whose sales are you trying to protect from cannibalizing from who it's it's like uh it's like watching a hockey game, right? And at the end of the game, they all take off their jerseys and they're all playing for the same team anyway. Ha ha, got you. It's all too enriched.

Gary Bettman. Just kidding. It's not... By the way, Jared's Tech, love your videos. I can't believe how many other YouTubers are watching this right now. Craft Computing's in there too. Jared, we actually did a video that was inspired.

We ended up doing our own investigation into some other stuff, but by your video on the AMD Advantage laptop. We had a lot of fun with that one. Alex spent most of this week on it. And it was definitely massive kudos to you. We shout you out in the video. You're awesome, man. Um, all right, anyway, let's, let's keep going because we're not quite done yet here, ladies and gentlemen. So LG provided guidelines for testing in what appear to be an effort to ensure the monitor is reviewed in ideal slash specific modes in order to get a favorable result. Now, that wouldn't always be my read of a situation like this.

In a lot of cases, the reviewer's guide or the guidelines given to reviewers are in order for us to have a baseline for what we should expect. Now, I think the issue here is one of maybe language barrier or culture barrier, because there's nothing necessarily wrong with a manufacturer saying, like, let's say NVIDIA were to say, okay, we measured these power consumption numbers, and we measured them in these games. And the reason they provide that information is not to tie our hands and say that we are not

allowed to test in other games or at other settings or whatever it's to give us a reference point so that if we run it the same way in the same game and we get a different result we can go back and be like hey uh there might be a problem with our card or maybe a problem with our test so that they can help us that's's what they have actual media engineer people for. They're trained on both the engineering side and how to interact with the press so that they can walk you through these processes and help you make sure that, not that the product is being seen in the best possible light, although obviously that's their intention, but in some cases they've even helped us, well, at least troubleshoot through bad things

that we have ultimately presented as bad things about the product they're just they're they're just there to help themselves get a fighting chance and make sure it's being evaluated fairly there's also like if there's some form of software feature say like to use the nvidia example say you get a graphics card from either team and it has a new software feature that that shows up really well on a few games they can tell you kind of like what games those are and maybe where in the game it happens so that you can show kind of both sides of the story because you're not that's hopefully stupid and are only going to show that game and only that specific scenario but you can show like okay yeah it doesn't work in all these scenarios but when it does work it looks cool here and that just it just helps simplify the whole process and those guys are fine in the case of a monitor there are ways to test

contrast ratio incorrectly for example like if you were to for example uh turn the backlight all the way down on your monitor before you tested the contrast ratio. You might end up with an abominable result. It's going to throw off what your brightest brights will be, and it might not have exactly the same positive impact on your darkest darks. That's just the way it is. There's nothing inherently wrong with that. The problem is that whether it's because they're used to dealing with, from my experience, typically Eastern press is a little bit more play ball when it comes to these kinds of arrangements. So whether it's because they're used to dealing with a press where culturally there are different norms, or whether it's a language barrier, whether they just outright um were trying to

bribe hardware and box i'm not going to be the one to make the judge because there's clearly a lot of things that are english is not the first language of the person who wrote this email okay let's just get that out of the way um so i'm not going to make a judgment as to what their intention was but it's very clear from the way they come across that they were trying to tie Tim's arms. They wanted him to only test it this way as opposed to guiding for how to get the best result. And to be clear with some cultural differences or not, this does absolutely happen in the more Western world as well. We have seen it with other creators. It has happened i doesn't seem very

common and i'm not sure how common it is outside of that but yeah all right let's move on because we're not done yet um the passive aggressive bit if the review doesn't match the guidelines few edits would be necessary uh yeah i that. I think that's at least 40% sort of language barrier there. And then if you provide them with draft, blah, blah, additional compensation. Okay, so Tim replied. The specified guidelines you presented go against our review policies. We do not allow any manufacturer to dictate how we review products, and we do not provide drafts of reviews for companies to view.

We also do not accept any compensation for reviews. We do not do paid reviews. This is something, sorry, I'll finish reading his email. As such, we'll be progressing with our review as normal. I'd appreciate a response within 24 hours so we can finalize this. Okay, so let me get this straight. There are companies and agencies that we have told multiple times, like more than I can count on a single hand times that a review cannot be a paid review. There is no such thing as a paid review. If it's paid, it's not a review.

And if it's a review, it's not paid. You can have a paid video and you can have a review. And those are completely different things. And they will never be the same. And anyone who does say that they do paid reviews does not do reviews. They do product showcases, which is what we call them. And that's what they are. So apparently whoever this LG employee is, Tim blurted out the name, had not gotten our memo or they'd gotten our memo and forgotten because that happens a lot. Anyway,

they kept digging. They said they did not expect that the product would have this issue. They didn't clarify exactly what issue they were talking about, but we can assume maybe that they're referring to some kind of ghosting. And if they had the guidelines shown above originally, likely given them by LG Electronics, who actually manufactures the monitor, they would not have asked Hardware Unboxed to do a review in the first place and finished off by asking them not to post the video. This is the exact wording. If this be the case, I think we should not proceed this content. We appreciate all your efforts and true comments on the product, however, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. As you've mentioned about your solid policies, we appreciate those. We would not ask for the draft or further

compensation, but instead you should just exclude this review to go live on your channel. So Tim followed up asking if there'd be any consequences for posting the video anyway, like being blacklisted from future review samples, and LG replied as such. However, including your review and others about GP850, our client found out that GP850 is not quite a model that was with expected outcome, especially when it comes to the faster mode. We expected much more of advanced results on this model compared to the previous one millisecond models of ours, but obviously it did not. Thus our client is worried about the audience

to not be interested in the new model." So it looks like, and this is really funny, it looks like between LG talking to us and being too concerned about the new one being so good, it would destroy sales of their existing product in the channel. They have done a 180, now that it got into the hands of actual reviewers

who found that the improvement was not as much as they expected. And now they don't want reviews of the new one because they're worried people won't be interested in the new models. So here's what I wanna know, okay? What kind of corporate structure do you have such that executives, because that's who directs the marketing team. It ain't engineering. I can

tell you that for a fact. What kind of corporate structure or culture do you have such that executives get such unrealistic messages about their products that they direct the marketing agency, who may play a part, but I'm going to say this one probably goes farther up the chain, that they direct the marketing agency to, based on completely fantasy land, la, la, la, la, la, expectations of the product. How do they have so little understanding of this product that their

company makes that they just, they have no idea. Will it be so good? No one will buy the old one. Will it be so bad? Everyone will buy the old one. Oh, I'm LG and I win either way. Oh no. And I win either way. Oh, no. Is it even a monitor? What's even happening at this point? Oh, my goodness. So I just don't know how to deal with this, you know?

I just can't. Okay, sorry. I'm calm. I'm calm. So anyway, LG didn't specify any specific consequences if hardware unbox failed to comply. I did request they not post the video. This is not necessarily a case though of LG trying to suppress a negative review.

We just want to point that out. They actually hadn't seen the video yet. So they didn't even know if it was negative. And interestingly, hardware unbox review of the 27 inch version was generally positive aside from that ghosting issue and several YouTubers have replied in the comments in Hardware Unboxed video saying they've experienced similar issues and at the end of the day what I think it comes down to is just that LG and many companies for that matter have no idea what YouTubers are. On the one hand,

they think that they can kind of just pay a YouTuber to say whatever they want. And in a lot of cases, that's pretty much true, especially if you're a technology company and you go do some kind of sponsorship with a non-tech related channel. You just hand them a bag of money. They do a sponsored piece of content and everything's hunky-dory. You've basically bought a commercial, okay? Where they run into confusion, I guess, is when they work with YouTubers who are actual media outlets and do reviews. They don't really understand, in some cases, what that means. They don't understand that that means that they are doing a review and that actually providing them with a monitor or whatever

means absolutely nothing to them. And if they really wanted to review it, they'd just go out and buy the monitor anyway. It's just convenient and saves some money, which is nice. Thank you very much. And in some cases, it's early access, which is also handy if you're trying to be competitive in the cutthroat world of online tech journalism. So a lot of the time they just don't really understand that.

And the other thing they often don't understand, this is a really good fun one for me because I see where they get confused, is when they sponsor a piece of content where their product is included. That's a really good one because, you know, you look at some stuff we've done like that. For example, the Ultimate Bathroom Gaming setup. Okay, that was sponsored by Asus. And Asus provided their motherboard and their graphics card, which we featured prominently in the video. And Asus is actually really, mostly really easy to work with. It depends. You got to understand companies are made up of people. And so at any company that's larger than one employee, you're going to have people that are varying degrees of understanding and varying

degrees of easy to work with. Okay. So ASUS is generally pretty easy to work with. That was a pretty easy project. They understood that they could say, okay, yeah, we need to make sure that as part of the inclusion of our products, you guys are talking about sort of these, these key things. Here's the length of our warranty. Here's how our fans spin the other way, then spin forward so that they can blow dust out of the heatsink or whatever the case may be. Um, but other than that, we understand that this is a video that is not about a motherboard and a graphics card. It includes a motherboard and a graphics card and we're the title sponsor and it's actually about gaming in your bathtub.

A lot of companies don't understand that. They'll come in and they'll say, okay, hey, you know, we really think this video is too long. And I'll say, wow, how nice for you. And what exactly are your credentials? Are you a YouTuber? Do you have 10 million subscribers? Do you know anything about what we do really at all? In fact, do you even know anything about the product you're hawking? I don't think so.

So tell you what, why don't you zip it? And this is why the business team doesn't let me talk to brands anymore. So there's also like one of the ones that used to frustrate me to no end was, I think there's a lot of, especially when you're working with agencies that probably aren't this closely tied to the brand. Yes. They want to prove that they did something. Absolutely. So they want to push changes just to be like, we know what we're talking about.

You must shorten video for it to be better. Exactly. They have no clue what they're talking about at all. They don't know the audience that you are serving. They don't know the type of content that you're serving. They don't know any of that kind of stuff. They just want to try to put in the report that they pushed for something to improve the quality of the video and that's it the most the most baffling

part of this that's funny mate your rate says luke must be paid per word um so very little the most ridiculous thing about all of this is just that LG for the most part makes pretty darn good products and it might be worthwhile. A lot of the time, like those executives that look at these videos and get this negative feedback, if they actually cared about continuing to make a good product and about making a better product, they would want this feedback. a good product and about making a better product, they would want this feedback. It's a competitive advantage. That is part of that whole, remember the symbiotic relationship between press and manufacturers that I talked about? It's valuable for you to get this feedback from experts like Hardware Unboxed who are going to tell you what you need to do better because apparently you had

no f***ing idea. You see how valuable that was? And now you're going and you're trying to interfere with what they're trying to do. Look, these guys are not consultants. You didn't hire them as a consultant to come in and pre-evaluate the product during the development process. That's something that a lot of press do end up doing, either as a side business or as a

career. I mean, Ryan Trout now works for Intel. In fact, Scott Wasson, I don't think he's at AMD anymore. He's at Intel now too. Well, whatever. They both work for Intel. So effectively, they are full-time consultants for Intel. There's a ton of value to that, obviously. Otherwise, Intel wouldn't have hired them. But you got to understand that's not the relationship here. When you're talking to independent media that are not beholden to whatever it is that you think power you have over them, that's just not how it works. I'm sorry. It's bad news. I know. I'm sorry. So there you go. Hardware in box did the right thing. Um, for our part, you know, we didn't really think, we didn't really think it merited, you know, a call out because we were just kind of looking at it going, this is comically stupid. It didn't really come across as, as evil in any

way. It was just, wait, I'm sorry. what? Our situation? But I definitely would have a problem with the way they went about this with Hardware Unboxed if they had taken the same approach with us, which thankfully didn't happen because they were upfront with us that they wanted us to not compare the new product against the old one. And we told them that we'll simply go by the monitor ourself then all right we could talk about wwdc before we do sponsors sure yeah there's some new feature releases from the big apple over the course of their two-hour keynote apple dropped a ton of new software um this was during wwdc and some of the some of the top ones on the list include FaceTime on Android, content sharing in FaceTime with SharePlay, a VPN-like feature in iCloud Plus, Macs that can now have their displays extended with AirPlay on Mac, and a complete redesign of Safari across iOS and macOS. Boy, was that ever overdue.

Apple's Assistant series also coming to third-party devices. Oh, thank goodness. Was that ever overdue? Apple's Assistant Series also coming to third-party devices. Oh, thank goodness. I was hoping for a second-rate virtual assistant on my other devices. And HomeKit Accessory Makers. Oh, yeah, HomeKit.

HomePod, if your devices are connected to your network. Colin says, if you're unimpressed with these releases because you don't use Apple products, don't worry. Instead, prepare yourself for a slew of parental requests for training on all these new features haha yeah he's so right about that you know what's absolutely gonna be a thing that's actually something apple does really well and that i really appreciate my aunt and uncle owning iphones is probably the best thing for my mental health like in my life because my mom always always no matter how many years she had it had problems with her android phone and within i believe hours of having an iphone just got it

just understood no problem that's not even the bigger issue for me because my aunt and uncle um didn't get it right away but man my uncle's on a first name basis with half of the Apple store staff near his house because he goes in for their training sessions all the time. Oh, okay. And then he goes home. He's retired now, right? And then he goes home. I'm going to turn him into a tech reviewer.

You just wait. So he goes home and he teaches my aunt how to do it. And then guess what? They've got like Sonos speakers all over their house. They've both got non-home button iPhones now that they totally know how to use now. They're like, they're experts. I'm going to have them casting to their TV in no time.

And I'm not going to have to do a bloody thing. It's great. So that's one thing that's really nice about Apple is they've got the support figured out in a way that quite frankly, nobody else touches. So for my part, I mean, even the just the lack of T9 dialing is already enough that being on the iPhone kind of irks me because every time I go to call someone, I go, wow, I could do this in half the time. If only Apple would pull their heads out of their butts and just implement T9 dialing, it would cost them absolutely like it would be an afternoon

for one of their developers, honestly, to implement it. And it would take away nothing from any of the other ways that you can dial a contact. And I'm sure the comments, I'm not even going to look at them because I'm sure the comment sections

are full of, we don't need that. We don't need that. You don't understand what it is. I showed it to Brandon today. No, James. I showed it to James today. And he was like,

oh, I had no idea that was what you meant when you were talking about T9 dialing. He thought I meant, oh, if you want to search for a contact, you have to like press six three times to get O. But it's not. It's like predictive T9 texting from back in the day. You're young. You don't remember. I get it.

It's fine. But in order to call Luke, all I have to do is hit 5853. And actually, I don't even need the three because LUK is enough. So I don't have to bring up my keyboard. I don't have to type in names. I don't have to program favorites. I have a lot of people in my address book. I have 50 people who work for me. I can't program a favorite for all of them. So being able to dial people quickly like that is a huge value for me. And man, the number of objections I saw way back in my old phone reviews, because I'd always talk about it when I'm reviewing the iPhone, the number of objections I would see to this method of dialing from people who didn't understand what it was just, it's one of those

things that just made me irrationally angry because they just clearly didn't understand what it was. It's one of those things that just made me irrationally angry because they just clearly didn't understand. They were like, why would you want to type the first digits of a phone number? Nobody memorizes phone numbers. Nobody's talking about that. That's not what T9 means. If someone's using a word you don't understand to describe something, you should look it up

because otherwise you're the one who looks bad, not them. Very frustrating. Very frustrating. Makes me very angry. T9 dialing is great. And they should just add it. But that's what drives me crazy about Apple in general is it's like this attitude that if it's not their idea, attitude that if it's not their idea it's not a worthwhile idea no matter how meaningfully better it would be for their users yeah estera says iphone doesn't have that question mark exclamation mark exactly literally literally in an afternoon they could figure that out it's a local lookup i mean it wouldn't be all that much more but uh it would definitely be more than an afternoon because i'm sure their development pipeline is super heavy i bet someone could have a draft done in an afternoon luke yeah you're literally just it wouldn't be

ready for release in that amount of time no i didn I didn't. Okay. I didn't say released. I didn't say released. There's more man hours that go into pushing code than that, but whatever. Yeah. If you want to know how Luke's paid, it's not by words he says on WAN show. It's by delivering projects. So he's got a vested interest in convincing me that development is very difficult. I'm saying at a company like that, it's going to be really heavy. Based on everything he's told me over the last like four years,

as far as I can tell, it's completely impossible. It cannot be done. Nope. Nothing can ever be developed. Especially not a feature rich video streaming platform without just hooking into expensive backend infrastructure like AWS. Okay, legitimately, that's very hard to build. Okay, and you know what else is hard? Telling you about our sponsors.

All right, the show's brought to you... Wait, wait, wait. You didn't even talk about FaceTime. Oh, FaceTime. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I kind of was ranting about... You gotta talk about FaceTime. I was ranting about this in the pre-show because it's just the perfect example of Apple's kind of was ranting about this in the pre-show because it's just the perfect example of Apple's kind of listening to customers' needs, but also in their own uniquely you kind of way.

You know, like, hey, we've got FaceTime on Android, but it's in a browser. Yeah. Something I couldn't tell but was trying to look up. Yeah. Maybe I just didn't find the right thing on this whatever but um it says you can you can the documentation that i read on one random review site so this is i'm pulling a lot off of this one little bit of text but it said that you can join a facetime call on android if you have a link it didn't it didn't so so it's through a browser yeah so you can't start a call

there no i don't believe so you have to be invited over oh that's so classically apple it's like oh yeah we recognize this need for people to connect to their families so we decided to solve that problem in the most uniquely we don't actually care and we just want to tick it off as a as a checkbox i guess i don't even know if they want to take it off as a checkbox i actually don't know i actually can't understand what the point of doing it this way was we want to make sure that people in certain regions where iphone is more popular can just stay on facetime and don't have to install another video messaging client. I think it's about that simple.

It's very transparent. If they wanted the experience to actually be any good, they would make a FaceTime app for Android, which of course they're not going to do because they admitted in the Epic versus Apple trial that they withhold features from Android, like iMessage, which was what the discussion was actually focused around. They withhold features from Android so that they can prevent parents who can afford premium iPhones for themselves from buying cheapo Androids for their kids. Apple recognizes, boy, does Apple ever recognize the value of getting kids using your technology?

Do you think it's a coincidence that they had that education? They still have the educational discount, but they offered deep educational discounts back in the 90s, back in the 2000s. That is not a coincidence because you get a bunch of kids that will eventually become adults who only know how to use macOS. That's a good thing.

I'm amazed at how they've let- I think every school- I'm amazed how they've let Google absolutely steamroll them over the last few years. Both Microsoft and Apple have basically just lied down on the floor and watched as Google has completely taken over the next generation of computer users. You just watch. Chromebooks are going to be the thing in 10 years

because you're going to have all these kids that have never touched anything else my uh my kid's school i actually have to buy a chromebook i have to buy a chromebook because my kid's school is like uh chromebooks are not mandatory next year uh so we'll provide them the following year but we would strongly recommend that they have one next year and i'm like uh okay so i have to choose why do they have to have a chromebook why does it have to be a chromebook though uh because they are going to tie into it with their manager actually your buddy is going to manage it as a google device i'm gonna have to i'm gonna have to bug my yeah you have a little chat you have a little chat. You have a little chat with your buddy, okay? Who happens to work at a place that would

potentially have some influence over this. Anyway, the point is, I have to go shopping for a Chromebook. I'm actually thinking of making a video about it. It's like, my son's school made me buy a Chromebook. What do I do? This is something I have never had to actually care about before.

Like, on the one hand, I look at it as, OK, I'm interested in technology and this is definitely a developing technology. But I've never had to look at it from the perspective of, no, I have to spend my actual money and I have to actually care if this thing doesn't suck. Because for me, it was just the conclusion is, yeah, it's neat. I can't see any reason why I'd want to use it. See you later. I'll go back to a device I actually want to use, right?

But I can't do that this time. So I don't know. It'll be kind of fun to go at it from a completely different perspective. Okay, so someone in chat said, yeah, we want to manage the Chromebooks and have... Oh, where did that message go? No. We want to manage the Chromebooks and have, oh, where did that message go? No.

We want to manage the Chromebooks and have filters GoGuardian on them. GoGuardian being the filter. So they just like don't want you looking at bad websites at school? It seems to me there's like other ways you could do that. Yeah. Anyway. It seems very odd. Like I don't understand why they need that level of control over a personal laptop that a kid brings to school but whatever squeaks in youtube chat says samsung has t9 dialing android can receive facetime via modern

browser yes we did talk about those things actually lots of android skins to my knowledge all of them but i don't know for sure. Definitely most of them allow T9 dialing because it's just basic. All right. Oh, wow. BMLMZ says FaceTime slash iMessage is encrypted end-to-end and opening it up to Android would open it up to hackers to hack the encryption. That's, dude, that's... Not how that works.

No, dude, that's totally, that's true, dude. That's dude that's how that works no dude that's totally that's true dude that's not at all how that works we gotta take we gotta take oh man can you please please drink a little i'm not sure if i want you to drink less kool-aid or more um it's just please don't okay just don't please okay thank you oh See, I wanted to be really positive today. I wanted to have a positive land show. You know what I'm positive about? I'm positive about talking about our sponsors because at least I'm getting paid. Okay. MSI's Clutch GM41 is a lightweight wireless gaming mouse that features soft rubber side

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is a good sensor. Go check it out at the link in the video description. Also sponsoring the show today, Seasonic. Seasonic's prime ultra titanium PC power supplies feature ultra high efficiency with an 80 plus titanium rating. They're fully modular. They feature hybrid fan control so you can control the overall noise of your system and fluid dynamic bearings. Those are nice and quiet. Even when they are running, they offer up to a 50,000-hour life expectancy along with a 12-year warranty, and you can check them out on Seasonic's website, seasonic.com, or on Amazon at the link in the video description. The show is also brought to you by Squarespace. If you need a website, but you don't have the know-how, Squarespace makes it easy. They've got a wide range of award-winning templates all optimized for mobile so they'll look

great on any device and you can even create members only content for extra revenue using Squarespace's member areas. And you can't you don't just have to put your member there. You can grow and engage your audience with powerful and easy to use email campaign system and if you ever need additional help, Squarespace offers webinars, a full series of help guides, and 24-7 customer support via live chat and email. So get started today and head to squarespace.com forward slash when to get 10% off your first purchase. Of course, the biggest news on the show today is the launch of the one, the only LTT, sad Linus, sequin pillow.

It's a sequin pillow. Look at it go. Look at this. Look at this. You can draw silly things on him. I'm going to give him long hair. I'm going the wrong way because I've got a mirror image going on here. Okay. Hold on one second. Hold on one second. Hold on. I'm going to give him a little, I'm going to give him a little, uh, little cut here. He's got a, Oh, hold on. You got it. Could you make him happy? Uh, I mean, I could make him happy. He's really happy about this do here. Hold on. I'm doing this. I'm doing this mirror image, folks. Mirror image. Mirror image.

Okay, we need a... I don't know if this is really a smile. I might have to do this not in the camera. I think you just have a beard in that one. I think I just have a beard. Okay, he's just got a beard. He's got a beard now. The point is, he's up for sale.

He's on the store. LTTstore.com. Don't wait. I have no idea how these are gonna sell so they could last forever and we could be blowing them out for 3.99 like like four dollars or they could be all gone in an hour i have no idea oh my god i haven't seen this product page yet who did this oh this is me oh man okay yeah so anyway yep that's that's a thing that's a thing you can do with it thanks for that whoever did that um you know who i jacques i jacques andy which i know is not grammatically correct. That's not how that works.

Oh, man. It could have been. Yeah, it could have been Madison, actually. Hold on. I'm not sure. I'm a bet on that one, personally. Yes, this is a better investment than crypto, says Rabba in the chat. Lordy. Okay, so let's move on. We've got some other topics we wanted to talk about today uh oh speaking of crypto actually no let's do this the mad lad actually did it luke the first public demo of navi 23 was it running cyberpunk on a tesla what are your thoughts playing reasonable seems good playing games playing games in a tesla oh That's what I would want to see. Actually, one sec. Nick wanted me to add that large CPU pillows are also back in stock.

I had actually not really wanted to call that out because they're selling really fast. And I had kind of wanted to not, because it's kind of embarrassing in this day and age, right? Not being able to keep things in stock because everyone's always mad about it. We're expecting them to probably last, I had them down to last another three weeks. So yeah, if you want one of the big pillows,

as long as you get it reasonably quickly, they are technically in stock right now as well. So the small one we've had a lot of, didn't sell as well as we expected. It's moving great, like we're fine, but we thought more people were gonna buy the small one one it turns out everyone wants the big one the 50 by 50 centimeter one and oh right because we've got reviews on the site now you guys can actually see what people think of it it doesn't fit in my motherboard socket but it's really comfy it's

so freaking soft super soft all right seems reasonable yeah it seems reasonable all right let's talk about let's talk about the tech meme tech techno king putting a gaming system this is what happened to all our gpus this is what happened luke all right tell me what you think about it i was gonna i was just gonna say at least you can't scalp a car And then I realized that you totally can and people do. Anyways, Elon Musk has fulfilled his promise of having a video game console in his cars. Of course, it had to play Cyberpunk. I'm sure he probably could have played anything else. Maybe a good game.

More interesting, exactly. But this was probably committed to quite quite some time ago so that's right that makes sense features a 17 inch display with a 2200 by 1300 resolution uh features the new and improved infotainment system which uses navi 23 2048 stream processors 8 gigabytes of gddr6 it's unclear whether or not it's a cut down radeon pro w6600 or a full fat gpu um yeah very very interesting um i wonder if playing a game on this limits its other capabilities because you'd think if they have like that beast mode hardware in there you wouldn't maybe wouldn't be able to do like autopilot or something well you shouldn't be

gaming while you're driving well your passenger could yeah but i think generally so that's something that's always really annoyed me um they made a they made a change over to android auto probably about a year ago i think where when you are plugged into your console, even on your phone, you can't, you can't open Google Maps. So it used to be that they wouldn't let you type on the screen, right? Because blah, blah, blah, you're typing and driving or whatever. Tesla doesn't seem to care about that. But Android Auto doesn't allow you to do it. That's one of the really nice things about the Tesla is that you can just be like, hit these like two buttons, which is actually a lot faster

than dicking around with voice control at a certain level. Hit these two buttons while you're at a stoplight or whatever. It auto completes and you just go, okay, off we go. That's actually way less distraction for me. I was just gonna say, a lot less distracting. Like a lot of voice controls are just so bad

that it would probably be more distracting and more difficult. They're still shockingly bad. That's one of the really nice things about the Tesla. So Android auto made this changeover. Google made this changeover so that even on your phone, you can't type. It will not let you open the apps map. And the stupid thing about it is I often have a passenger because I commute to and from work with my wife and I go a lot of places with her. And so for her to be able to just grab my phone, type in the destination, and it just comes up on the dash was, when they allowed it, a lot better than not being able to do it at all. So now I have to actually, I use Waze now instead of Google Maps anyway, because I love knowing when there are speed traps. So anyway, I have to put it

in park, and then I can type in Waze, or I just have to hope the voice control works. But it's, it's, anyway, the point is, I think there are regulatory reasons that they can't just assume, well, the driver's not looking at it, the passenger's looking at it. Otherwise, I don't know why workflows like that would exist, unless it's just, I i don't know nanny taking care of me kind of mentality from these companies it makes it still makes me so mad that i can't just like key in where i want to go while it's plugged in i have to unplug it key in where i want to go then plug it in and then it works oh because that's so much less distracting now thank you so much google for looking out for me yeah that sounds really annoying but okay so you can only play when you're parked or whatever

tesla has not confirmed what cpu they're using in the car there is a video of cyberpunk being played during the live event it looks like they're using their own controller which seems probably unnecessary although there's another note that says it looks like it's a ps5 controller no it kind of looks like one but it doesn't look like it is one oh yeah that almost looks more like a a wii pro controller to me kind of looks like the steering yoke can i just pipe in and say boo steering yoke by the way yeah a bit weird yeah a bit weird on like not an f1 car yeah if you're doing bigger turns than that pretty annoying but uh they're boasting ps5 level performance who cares um the model s plaid costs 123 000 us dollars 23,000 US dollars.

Deliveries expected in August for US residents. And yeah. There's some suggestions from Plouffe who put in this topic. Mine crypto on your Tesla to help pay it off? Is there crypto mining apps for cars? I don't know. It wouldn't surprise me. First, the KFC console.

Now the car console. What's next? Yeah, thanks, Plouffe. It wouldn't surprise me. First, the KFC console. Now, the car console. What's next? Yeah, thanks, Ploof. All right. Windows 10. Windows 10 is being... Actually, sorry. Quick question.

Would you game on this? If you were parked somewhere and you had to wait, and I don't even necessarily know why, but you were parked somewhere and you had to wait. Honestly, compared to driving down the road, that probably takes extremely minimal battery. So let's even say you're doing a road trip and you're charging at a supercharger.

Sitting playing video games. You have a $123,000 car, a $1,000 US car. Would you be gaming on the car? Now, hold on a second. I think that's a harmful stereotype that actual adults who have nice cars don't game. I think gaming's for everyone these days i think we've left that behind okay not what i'm saying at all i i do agree with

that anyone can be a gamer oh okay for me what i'm saying is you have this extremely baller car yeah if you really want to game really badly you can probably have a switch or a laptop or something else so but okay okay okay okay you know what i'm gonna play devil's advocate well why should i take my switch with me i have a game console in my car you'd rather play on it i can run a switch emulator it's powerful enough for that what's up now i think our switch emulators. Okay. Anyways, different topic. They're not very good yet, but yes, they do exist. Yeah. Okay.

The screen is the thing that I would complain about. Really? Yeah. Really? Is it a bit of a weird format screen? It's a little weird. Yeah. Are you seated facing forward and it's like over here?

So you're this baller who has 123 000 i believe yeah 123 000 us dollar car starting at starting and you're gonna like sit in your car which you've probably been in for a very long time at this point and probably want to be anywhere else not because the car is uncomfortable necessarily just this use case basically requires a break on a road trip um so you're sitting in your car for an extended period of time like cranked over trying to play a game on the middle screen like really i don't i don't know okay what about your save is probably stuck in the car so you'd have to play the entire cyber no there's no way there's no way it's got to be cloud safe there's no way it's cloud no way. It's got to be CloudSafe. There's no way. It's CloudSafe through what?

Because CloudSafe is going to work through the platform. So do they have Steam on here? It's got to be through Steam. They have Steam running on the car. There's no way this isn't through Steam. It's got to be. And I alternate, okay, alternate take on that. Let's say, let's say theoretically, you've got a friend.

Huh? Now you could sit and play like Street Fighter. Let's say you you've got a friend huh now you could sit and play like street fighter let's say you both have a controller see he's coming around to it it's more interesting he's coming around to it interesting but i'd still you could also just both have a switch so for me for me the issue is not one of could i foresee a situation where it might be entertaining. I could foresee a situation where it would be entertaining to have that there. For me, what it comes down... Oh, this is a really good one from Speed Freak on Floatplane, sitting in a ferry lineup. Yep. So there's definitely situations where you might want to

play a video game. For for me and maybe this is just me being you know a boomer right for me when i am out when i'm out and about i'm not sitting here thinking you know i'm gonna i'm gonna play like a story driven like a pc game and there's lots of casual pc games now so so i mean thinking about it that way is is kind of ridiculous i could play some spelunky while i'm just sitting bored at the ferry but for me it's just i'm in i'm in a car i'm sitting in a car i'm in a mindset where like i'm holding a handheld and i think you probably feel the same way and the thing is even though i often keep my switch in my car it often sits in my car

i basically never use it because when i'm sitting bored i'm for 20 minutes i'm usually on my phone i'm on twitter or i'm reading youtube comments or i'm reading the news and so i think that, yes, it's a... I'm not saying it shouldn't exist. I'm not trying to be a downer. And if someone finds a way to have fun with this, that's great. I just have a feeling, the customer for this car, if you're spending that much freaking money, because that's a lot of money. If you're spending that much money on a car

you probably have the disposable income to have some form of entertainment that's going to be better than gaming on your center console or maybe not i mean having a pc like that is i mean it's certainly now i would actually be really interested in it if I was allowed to plug in whatever I wanted. If I could just plug in my PlayStation or my Xbox or my PC. And use it as a display. Yeah, and just use it as a target. That would be sweet. Like, imagine that partnership between Tesla and Microsoft

or Tesla and Sony so that you could just use, like, an outlet in the car to run your console and just plug into it that's what i would have rather they had done but if they're gonna have the gpu horsepower anyway in it then i think it's sensible enough to just let you run proton and run some i'm assuming it's linux based i actually don't know that for a fact i'm assuming it's linux based though so why wouldn't they just let you run proton and let you run some games on it right yeah yeah like having the feature is completely fine i just i just don't see who's going to use it now i said of a pure raw curiosity one time type of deal now i7 6969x in the floatplane chat says i think the idea that because you have expensive item A, you must have expensive

items B, C, and D is nonsense. And under most circumstances, I would agree with you because I think that we're at a stage now where a person with a median income in North America can probably afford one of any pretty darn nice thing that they would want. So just because someone has a really nice TV, maybe they're a cinema buff and they don't even, they sit on the world's crappiest couch, but for them, image quality is everything. They've got a really nice TV. Image and sound or something like that,

but not comfort, sure. Yeah, or they live in a small place or they don't drive a nice car, whatever, whatever. Like you could kind of afford a nice, one of most anything if you're a median income individual, and you're not living in a super, super expensive area where housing is ridiculous. But I would say that in this case, I think Luke's rationale is justified because we're not talking about something that costs $3,000. We're talking about something that costs $120,000 plus. That is not necessary. I mean, $120,000, that's not car money for most people. That's like every optional purchase in your entire that you own money for a lot of people i'm not talking

housing i'm not talking food i'm talking well i'm talking your car your computer your phone your your go-kart i don't know your three thousand dollar tv that we just used in the other example your your seadoo i don't know. You, we're talking, that is an astonishing amount of money for something that is not a necessity, right? Even the, even the surplus spent on that over something more practical, even a Tesla. Okay. The difference between a Model 3 and a Model S Plaid is already more than what just a normal person would own at all. So I would say that if you are not the kind of person who could just buy a Switch if you felt like it, then you really shouldn't own a Model S Plaid.

And you probably aren't the customer for it. Super irresponsible. And that's what I'm trying to say. And I agree with essentially everything Linus just said. There's a difference between having like, oh, I'm a, to use an example that I probably normally wouldn't. Because honestly, I think their population is increasing due to GPUs just not existing. But I'm a high-end console gamer. I have a really nice audio setup.

I have a really nice TV. I have a really nice home theater setup in general. I have a sweet couch. I have a high-end console gamer. I have a really nice audio setup. I have a really nice TV. I have a really nice home theater setup in general. I have a sweet couch. I have a pro controller. I'm really into this kind of stuff. I have nice custom headphones. Custom as in not like the Xbox ones, although I don't even know if they do that anymore.

They do. They have Xbox ones. They're okay. Okay, yeah, exactly. Yeah, so it's something better than that, et cetera. That's not too surprising to me and if you didn't have like a second console because you don't necessarily care about nintendo like you might want to play nintendo games but you don't have the disposable cash after buying all that to have a switch that's like okay yeah whatever of course

100 you chose to spend your money on different things. But when it's just, it's, it's an extra, it's a rather extreme amount of money. It's, it's probably more than, uh, I don't know if I can accurately make this. I would assume that it, it might just be more than what pretty much everyone in the chat is going to spend on cars in their lifetime. I'm just trying to think too far. That's more than I've spent on cars in my lifetime. I'm 35 now. I've been driving for 20 years. Yeah.

Yeah. That's like substantially more than I've spent on cars for myself in my lifetime. If we count the Outlander plug-in hybrid and the Model Y for the aunt and uncle and for the in-laws, then I'm over that. But for vehicles that i and my wife together have ever actually owned that is way more and that's that's not gonna that's not gonna yeah that's not gonna make it for everyone so i can't say a most or a majority necessarily it's it's definitely more than a decent amount of people watching will ever spend on vehicles. And it's one vehicle. So like, poof, that's, that's, that's in the rather extreme level of, uh, premium. Uh, Buckalicious says proposition one Tesla or 11 Camrys.

Yeah. Well that, and that's my exact point that I'm making, right? Like 11 cars would be kind of, I feel like that would be a lot to go through yeah that's a good way of sort of expressing how excessive this amount of money is to spend on a car sup benjamin jarvis all right um windows 10 it's being retired microsoft has given windows 10 a retirement date which despite them saying, we all knew was coming. That was awkward. The important banner at the top of the page says, Microsoft will continue to support at least one Windows 10 semi-annual channel until October 14th, 2025. Wow.

That's actually a long time. What we don't know for certain is if the successor will be called Windows 11, Windows Sun Valley, or something else. When end of life happens, the operating system will no longer receive security or quality updates, and it may never receive a quality update to its search, although Microsoft may decide to extend the deadline slightly at some point in the future, as they did with Windows 7. Once support ends, users will no longer be able to contact Microsoft for advice in the event of a problem with that OS,

and the information that Microsoft leaked by accident yesterday suggests that it will run the new version of its operating system alongside Windows 10 for the time being at least, which would be in keeping with the retirement date. I would be interested to see how they're going to handle, like, sales for the new one. Like, are they going to go back to that more traditional model, or are they going to offer free upgrades, Or like, I don't know, I guess we'll find out. So this will be a long time for people to transition from one OS to the other. And the sort of disadvantage of that is it's been a long time for people to get real used

to Windows 10 being part of their daily life and their infrastructure. So that could be very interesting. In other news, El Salvador adopts Bitcoin as legal tender and explores federal Bitcoin mining powered by volcanoes. That sounds amazingly cool. Yeah. That's a pretty intense version of geothermal.

62 out of 84 possible votes earlier this week. So mean Bitcoin, along with the US dollar, will become legal tender in 90 days. As expected with the currency becoming legal tender, all businesses are required to accept Bitcoin as legal tender for goods and services unless the business lacks the technology needed to do so. President Bukele says it will bring financial inclusion,

investment, tourism, innovation, and economic development for our country. Wow, what an open-minded way of looking at things. He also previously said that the moon... What does that even mean? It is required to accept Bitcoin as legal tender for goods and services unless it lacks the technology. So everyone?

What? No. Well, Salvador, they have like computers. But like you would... What do you need in order to accept Bitcoin? Okay, so they're, like, just your phone, basically? Yeah, should be fine. So, also previously said the move will help make financial services more accessible in a country where around 70% of the population does not have a bank account.

Could make it easier for Salvadorians living outside the country to send money home, which is really important because money sent home from abroad makes up about 20% of the country's GDP. Wow. As expected, Bitcoin rallied 13% after the announcement. That's pretty incredible. And I think that's pretty much it. Other than getting to some of our super chats, which unfortunately are missing for over the first half of the show

because the tab refreshed for some reason. I think I must have bumped a button on my mouse, unfortunately, and it just got rid of all the super chats that came in before that. I did manage to copy paste one of them. Someone said, ordered a stealth hoodie a while back,

got the wrong size, contacted support, got it fixed, got COVID, didn't want to risk anyone getting sick, sending it back, or scam you out of a hoodie, so they actually sent us the cost of the hoodie. You don't have to do that, customer support, they just want to take care of you, alright? Super Burger Time. Linus, the LG higher-ups probably don't even

understand YouTube. Any advice you say in a video is going to be like throwing eggs at a battleship. I mean, I don't know uh poll says you should make a tech quickie on t9 dialing i actually saw a few people in the chat saying oh wow i just learned what t9 dialing is that's so cool um yeah but no one wants to know every time retro quickie retro quickie people got so mad and they just got so like they were just so mad at me for just trying to say this is a really cool feature and apple should just have it why don't they just have it but it cost them nothing um interesting igor says in 2010 i had to buy a galaxy tab because the books in my high school were ebooks and all study was validated in a flash based app wow that was very ahead of the curve uh ian says google workspace 100 comes with classroom gmail

drive vault all communications yep they're providing the infrastructure apple wasn't yeah yeah i had a i had an extended conversation with someone in the full plane chat about like this one application do i still have it up yeah go guardian um and apparently it's because i was like okay what like how is there no other software that can accomplish this stuff that you want and apparently they're just like isn't or at least he doesn't know of one and go guardian can work on other things but it ties in much better to a Chromebook. Unsurprisingly, they want you to use their stuff. Yeah, go figure. How unusual. Yeah.

Squeak says, did you catch the tweet about the GPU stock scan bot listings? No, I don't know. But that's super cool, Bullhead face. We introduced that person to the passion and tech they now hold. Thank you so much. P.S. I love the LTD underwear. Any word on socks?

We are getting closer on socks. We actually finally found a supplier that is close to the quality that I wanted. I still want some changes. The quality is good though. So now we're just changing elements of the product instead of having something that's just plain not even close to good enough, which is really exciting.

If you guys figure out socks and it is to the same quality level of the other things that you have figured out, I might very well throw all of my socks or close to it. I might keep my very small amount of really nice pairs. Might be time. Everything else. Yeah.

Um, I don't want to get too much into this, but, uh, just a one quick note for the end of the WAN show here. I said last week that, uh, prices would equalize between 3080 and 3080 TI.

Um, some other people pointed out that they hadn't. So my response is, well, yeah, because we didn't really give it any time, did we? And so if we fast forward to today, it has been a full week, which is, I guess, a very, very long time. We couldn't have waited. We can actually see that whether we're looking at 3080Ti's or 3080's, you can see the difference between these is about $450, which would suggest that they scale with MSRP or something because there's a $500 difference between them. But, oh, wait, I don't know.

This 3080Ti is $2,100. 3080, 1900. Okay, so it's all looking like, yeah, maybe they scale with MSRP until, oh, no, bam, there's a 3080 Ti for 2000. Here's another 3080 Ti for 2000. That's a Founders Edition. That's a fancy one. Here's a 3080 for 1800. Here's a Ti for 2200, 3080, 1800, 3080 Ti, 2150, 3080 Ti, 2350. Oh, there's one for 2100. So it looks like if you're willing to try,

you can get them for pretty darn similar prices. So give it a little bit more time and that'll keep happening. So these are sold listings in the last, these are sold listings today. 1800 for this one, 1800 for that one, 3080 TI. Here's one for 2100. Here's a TI for 2000. That was an auction. Okay, here's a 3080 for 2000. So literally, here was the difference between these two was the 3080 actually went for more than the TI. Here's a 3080 for 2000. Here's a TI for 2750.

I mean, you can never tell what people are going to do. So yeah, there you go. Give it time. Give it time. 3080 TIs are already going for very similar to what 3080s are going for. It just takes a little bit of time. All you have to do is not buy it there's another 3080 for two grand imagine not buying things dude i can't i can't there's a 3080 for two grand 3080 for two grand imagine buying a dell alienware version of a 3080 with no warranty whatsoever that doesn't seem like a good move man it's crazy out there right now man like that is just it's nutty here's a water-cooled 3080ti for under two grand so yeah i don't know give it some time electronic shortage survival guide you gotta do it man yeah i don't know how to tell people how to survive here's a 3080 ti for 1800 don't buy a 3080

i mean what we said in the review good lord am i getting into this again what we said in the review is if you get it at msrp in context of the market today, it's a good deal. In the context of the market today. Is that a good deal? No. And what we said in our 3070 TI video, which is $100 more than the 3070's original MSRP, at MSRP, what we said in that video was, in the context of the market today, it's a great deal.

We have no idea whether that will continue to hold true for the future. Here's the big question that I would pose to people is knowing what we know, which is that eventually performance is what dictates what something sells for, because we can validate this as well by just looking at 37 ETI. Because theoretically, the 37 ETI being $400 cheaper than the $3,880 TI would put it at, what, exactly $400 cheaper? In practice, it's actually a little bit more cheaper than that. So let's have a look at our, yeah, sold listings again. So these go for more like $1,400 to $1,500, which is anywhere from, oh, does that work out too?

While you were figuring that out, someone in the chat said, we shouldn't let a shortage redefine good value. Nothing he scrolled past is good value. And he hasn't said that it is. He's never said that it's a good value. In the context of the current market, in the context of the current market

compared to what you're going to be paying in the secondary market, yeah, anything at MSRP is a good value today. I'm sorry that that's the case. But here's my question. What difference would it have made to you? And I get it. Everyone wants me to be angry alongside them.

And I'm angry. But I'm not going to direct my anger into some area where it's ultimately not going to make a difference. What if, let's say, okay, let's come up with a hypothetical for you guys what if nvidia had priced the 3080 ti at 100 what difference would it have made for you would you be able to get one it would still cost two grand on the secondary market because that's what they go for, because that's the performance of them compared to 30 years.

There would be an even bigger Zerg rush at Micro Center or whatever that place was. And a bunch of scalpers would win the lottery even more. So you can be mad. You can be mad that NVIDIA is making more money or that their partners are making more money or maybe they're sharing it or maybe retailers are making more money.

I don't know. You can be mad about that, but ultimately it's either going to be them or it's going to be a scalper because you weren't going to get one. And so there, that's my question is what difference does it make? I'm sorry that the situation is bad, but direct your anger where it belongs. Direct it at scalpers. Direct it at the people who create these bots that make it so that they can order these cards before any human could possibly order them. Be mad, sure, but be mad in a way that's meaningful. I'm mad about it, so I created Verified Actual Gamer Program, and when I say I, I mean I directed other people to

do it. Thank you very much, Luke and the rest of the Floatplane team, and also Nick and the rest of the Creator Warehouse team, and Yvonneonne who had to work on a lot of the accounting for that. There's no way that we made any kind of money that made up for the amount of time that we invested into creating that program. But I actually did something. What did you do? So I don't know, guys, there's a lot of people that are really mad at me over my take. guys, there's a lot of people that are really mad at me over my take. But all I have to say at this point now is at the end of the day, the pricing will be dictated by the market, not by what MSRP is set. And this is pricing that the market for whatever reason has deemed acceptable. So direct your anger at that. There's no point directing your anger at me.

What did I do exactly? And I don't really think there's much point directing your anger at that. There's no point directing your anger at me. What did I do exactly? And I don't really think there's much point directing your anger at NVIDIA. Is NVIDIA out to make a buck? Of course they are. They're a publicly traded company. Like every publicly traded company, they care about their bottom line more than you. But that's not new. That's not surprising. It's not newsworthy. And from my point of view, would I rather that the manufacturer of said product makes the money or a scalper? That's an interesting conversation, isn't it? What would you rather? At least the manufacturer actually did the work.

And you can be mad about it, sure. Just make sure you're directing your anger in the correct place that's that's my last word on it and i think that's pretty much it for the wan show so we will see you again next week uh same bad time same bad channel oh hey gordon finally coming out of lockdown hey thanks for keeping me alive during lockdown hey you bet gordon a bunch of people sent super chats now that we started reading them. Guys, I read them at the end and then it's done. Vimar says, you know Linux, right? I'm aware of it. Yes. Sophie says, hey, we love you for being LGBT inclusive. Love you and your bearded face. Hey, thanks, Sophie. I mean, to me, we're not LGBT inclusive. We're just humans inclusive. And LGBT people

happen to be human, which is great. You know, welcome to the club. We're all humans here. Love y'all. Yay. It's just, it's such a simple thing to me. I was, oh man, now we're getting off on a tangent. I was reading, I was looking at this stupid website someone sent me in this Discord I'm in. And it was like, by country, you can fill out this survey and see who like agrees with you. And one of the questions was, do you like agree with homosexuality? I'm like, what do you mean agree with? There's nothing to agree or disagree. It just is.

It's like asking if you agree with rocks. They just are. I'm like, what do you want from me? I'm not, I'm not doing anything specific to be inclusive i just love y'all equally like it doesn't seem complicated all right thanks guys we'll see you again next week same bad time same bad channel bye all right hold on one quick thing uh vmar says, hey, what about actually reading my question? By the way, thanks, mate. What are your expectations for future GPUs?

Let's say 2022, will it all settle? It's, I don't have a crystal ball. And it's impossible to say. I mean, NVIDIA is already giving as much guidance as they legally can in their investor calls. So they basically said it's going to be rough all the rest of this year i don't even i don't even know what it'll look like in 2022 because there's not going to be really any meaningful additional fab capacity online so i don't yeah i don't know it's tough

okay bye Yeah, I don't know. It's tough. Okay. Bye. Bye. Thanks, Morringe.