The WAN Show - The Final Nail for Intel - WAN Show October 2 , 2020

Episode Date: October 5, 2020

Keep your feet dry and get $25 off each pair at Vessi with offer code WANSHOW at https://www.vessi.com/wanshow Honey automatically applies the best coupon codes to save you money at different online checkouts, try it now at https://www.joinhoney.com/linus Upgrade your stream with overlays from Nerd or Die: https://lmg.gg/nerdordie Check out Carpool Critics, our new movie podcast: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCt-o... Podcast Download: TBD Timestamps (Courtesy of Michael O'Brien): 00:00:00 - Stream Start! 00:00:05 - What is up ladies and gentlemen 00:00:13 - Topic #1: Ryzen 5800X Benchmark Leak (Jump to 00:01:54) 00:00:20 - Topic #2: Pixel 4, 4a 5G, Chromecast, Nest Audio speaker (Jump to 00:14:05) 00:00:31 - Topic #4: Linus' Bounty Program (Jump to 00:53:18) 00:01:00 - Topic #3: Microsoft & Arm (Jump to 00:47:43) (Titled topic) 00:01:10 - Intro's Broken! 00:01:54 - Topic #1: Ryzen 5800X Benchmark Leak 00:02:16 - AMD's branding vs Intel's Branding 00:04:28 - Resyncing Mobile & Desktop nomenclature 00:05:09 - Benchmarks are gone, but here is chart 00:06:35 - R9 5900X @ 150 W TDP, ~15% increase 00:09:28 - Linus' take, involving tin foil and fish 00:12:31 - Discussion about leaks & espionage 00:13:35 - lttstore.com sweater update 00:14:05 - Topic #2: Pixel 4, 4a 5G, Chromecast, Nest Audio Speaker 00:14:19 - Snapdragon 765G SoC downgrade 00:15:31 - Would Luke buy it? 00:17:39 - Additional Pixel 5G specs & Linus' concerns 00:19:21 - How could you provide long-term device support? 00:22:44 - $5 text vs "not a good idea" - Fight! 00:25:45 - End result of costs vs free 00:27:38 - SoC cost vs phone MSRP 00:28:54 - But Luke, really? 00:31:35 - Nest Audio & Chrome Cast TV w/ Google TV 00:32:53 - Google's development process & support 00:36:05 - Google Play Music -- YouTube Music issues 00:39:25 - G-Suite Reminders, paid vs free 00:40:11 - Sponsors! 00:40:15 - Honey - joinhoney.com/linus 00:40:55 - Nerd of Die - lmg.gg/nerdordie 00:41:32 - Vessi Footwear - Code WANSHOW - vessi.com/wanshow 00:42:11 - Unofficial Topic #1: RTX 3070 Launch Delay 00:42:28 - Altruism? 00:44:49 - But that Radeon event... 00:45:29 - Correct move regardless? 00:47:43 - Topic #3a: Microsoft's Surface Laptop Go & Surface Pro X 00:47:49 - Laptop Go specs 00:48:10 - Surface Pro X specs 00:48:27 - Topic #3b: Windows on Arm (Titled topic) 00:48:47 - 64-bit x86 emulation support 00:50:21 - Linus' take 00:53:18 - Topic #4: Bounty Time! 00:54:02 - HIS X1600 Pro Dual DVI w/ AGP & PCIe WORKING 00:55:39 - Superchats! 00:57:14 - Tell people you love them and how much they mean to you 00:59:45 - Small runs with Creative Warehouse 01:02:09 - Phone performance usefulness 01:03:58 - Shuffle on the YouTube Music app 01:05:13 - EK is now an SI (System Integrator) 01:06:20 - Same Bad time, same bad channel. G'bye! 01:06:25 - Outro! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

You know what's great about ambition? You can't see it. Some things look ambitious, but looks can be deceiving. For example, a runner could be training for a marathon, or they could be late for the bus. You never know. Ambition is on the inside. So that goal to beat your personal best?

Keep chasing it. Drive your ambition. Mitsubishi Motors. What is up, ladies and gentlemen? Welcome to the WAN Show. We've got a fantastic show for you guys this week. Lots of good tech news topics. There's benchmarks leaked for the Ryzen 7 5800X that look There's benchmarks leaked for the Ryzen 7 5800X that look extremely promising. Google dropped the new Pixel 5, Pixel 4a 5G, Chromecast with Google TV, and Nest Audio's speaker this week.

What else we got, Luke? Scrolling down here a bit. Linus is posting another bounty. What? Oh, boy. No, I'm not. I don't know about this. Okay, maybe no. Wait, what is this? This is a bounty opportunity in front of it okay apparently we're doing it you know what fine fine you know what

no we're doing it on me we're doing it yeah it's your fault when yvonne complains about it it's going to be a hundred percent on you okay i haven't set the price at least that's true that's true that part's not my fault what What else we got? Another bounty, dual interface graphics card. Very interesting. And Microsoft is messing around with ARM. Ooh, messing around.

Let's roll that intro. Oh, oh, the intro's broken. Oh no. Ah, there it is. The show is brought to you today by Honey, Nerd or Die, and Vessi Footwear oh my oh yeah oops the amount i wear shoes these days is very low why don't we jump right into our big headline topic of the day benchmarks have leaked for the ryzen 7 5800x and it looks like it could be as

good or better than an intel core i9 yes my friends amd copying intel's branding might have actually um kicked them in their own butt for the first time pretty much ever isn't that funny right like if people are at the store and they're like, oh, you know, well, this is only whatever seven and this is nine, this nine one must be better. I mean, that was always the way that AMD did it back in the day when they first introduced PR or performance rating is I think what it was short for where Intel had a 2.5 gigahertz. And then I don't think Intel actually ever did a 2.5 gigahertz Pentium, whatever. But the point is, AMD would have 2,500 plus, even though they ran at a lower clock speed.

And that was because, by AMD's estimation, their 2,500 plus, even though it was a lower clock speed, was equivalent in performance to a 2.5 gigahertz equivalent generation intel and and that was gross in fairness in fairness to amd a lot of the time uh their lower clocked processors were in fact competitive with higher clocked intel ones they were just very optimistic at times about how they applied that pr rating and the fact that they put a plus at the end of it. That was very optimistic at times. A little cheesy, yeah. So now, after copying Intel's positioning,

Intel's very uncreative positioning, AMD could be the ones that are like, oh, well, this is awkward. We can't call the 5800X a Ryzen 9 when it was a ryzen 7 like last generation for the 3800x so i guess it's gonna have to be a ryzen 7 but this thing absolutely kicks around the 10900k so ahead of amd's october 18th october 8th ryzen announcement details on their upcoming zen 3 based processors have allegedly leaked now here's a bit of a problem luke you play a lot of ashes of singularity you play a lot of

that game that would be play on friday night saturday night let's let's let's see i want to see like it's on steam right wednesday night wednesday we did this very recently with with flight simulator so i want to see like steam stats on ashes singularity sure so while you're while you're pulling that up uh according to an ashes of the singularity benchmark discovered by api apisac i don't know how i'm supposed to pronounce that amd is skipping the 4000 series for their desktop cpu names this makes a ton of sense i i'm not going to say i love this move because i hated the move that they made in the first place, putting them out of sync for mobile and desktop, but I appreciate this move because

it makes it much easier for consumers to know what they're getting. So mobile is obviously going to have to get a new series because they already call Zen 2, Ryzen 4000. So then if mobile has to be 5000, then desktop should be 5002 so that we know architecturally what kind of product we're buying. So 5000 series looks like it's going to be Zen 3. As for the benchmarks themselves, they're no longer available on the Ashes website,

but when they were there, they revealed that an 8-core ryzen 7 5800x would be superior in terms of cpu performance and roughly comparable in terms of gpu performance to the core i9 10 900k and there's actually a graph there's a graph here posted by ponson on the twitter so red or orange or whatever color that is, is the 5800X. And then we've got blue is a 10900K and a 3800X is in yellow. So that is a massive,

massive intergenerational performance improvement. All right. But this is a very popular game though, right, Luke? How popular is it? So on Twitch, there is no one streaming it and the last stream was about a month ago no one uh and that's gotta be a glitch and on steam charts the last 24 hour peak was actually higher than i expected at 83 players wow 83 players so then that's basically the 20 or so tech reviewers that might have been using

it as a synthetic benchmark break basically and 60 whole people all dozens of us playing ashes of the singularity that is just fantastic um separate leaked. Place the Ryzen 9 5900X, so this would be the 12-core, running with a boost clock of 5 GHz at a mere 150-watt TDP. Wait, mere? Wow, that's a lot. It seems like AMD's pushing hard.

But if they got to 5 GHz, that's going to be pretty impressive. That has eluded AMD since the launch of Ryzen. There's no way it's all cores but uh that's very fast one second if what what happened uh on the week of monday april the 27th monday april the 27th so like from that monday forward what happened that week because if you go if you go on steam stats steam charts and you look at ash's singularity they have steadily declining players for the

last year from 200 down to like 83 whatever i did for the last 24 hour peak but they do it by week and for the week of monday april the 27th uh what year in 2019 2020 it spikes from 160 players the week before to 3758 weird and then immediately back down to 340 the week after that 184 the week after that like it slams up and then completely drops down. What big tech news was there that week? I have no idea, actually. I do not recall anything in particular happening that week. It looks like, okay, sorry. They say week from, but it looks like they're doing it monthly.

So did something happen in... I have no idea what happened in April. So was there something that happened in May? Intel CPUs launch? I don't remember, but why ashes all over the place? Hold on, there's a few more things I want to wrap up with here. So aside from the core count and clock speed rumors zen 3 is also expected to feature significant ipc improvements so that's performance per clock and we're thinking

about 15 compared to zen 2 so theoretically with both a clock speed and ipc improvement ryzen 5000 series could be well ahead of Comet Lake. AMD previously stated they'll be using an evolution of TSMC's 7nm process. They have not actually named it directly. The enhanced N7P process, which boasts a 7%-ish performance improvement over N7, seems like the best fit after AMD clarified that their 7nm plus nomenclature did not mean a more sophisticated EUV-based N7 plus process, which claims a 10% improvement. So, dang.

But can I go tinfoil hat here for a second? Can I go tinfoil hat? Absolutely, please do. I don't actually think this is necessary. I don't think this is true. There. I'm just going to put it out there as something that I don't actually think this is necessary. I don't think this is true there. I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm just going to put it out there as something that I don't think is true, but it is just extremely fishy.

Even reviewers don't use ashes of the singularity anymore. Yeah, not really. Could this be an AMD cherryicked scenario that they accidentally leaked it's uh it's yeah i would give that a pretty high chance of being a thing like ashes of the singularity is such a like a non-factor even for most reviewers at this point i have still seen it in presentations from manufacturers where it seems like they don't read the same you know uh news that we do out in the media or maybe they're just not paying as close attention or maybe it's like a licensing thing like they have a harder time licensing games for use for like official presentations i know that that can be a thing like i remember

um there was an intel laptop running um xe graphics a little while back at like some trade show i think it was like very early xe graphics at the last ces and i was like hey i don't i don't want to play counter-strike i want to play like at the time what was cool at the time fortnite or whatever like i want to play this and they're like sure uh i don't remember who it was so i'm not accusing anyone in particular but some popular battle royale game and they were like yeah we we tried we know but they they wouldn't allow us to do it i'm like you got to be kidding me that's basically marketing for their product that's that's that's you intel, multinational, multi-billion dollar organization acknowledging their game as like the hotness right now.

Why would you expect to be paid for that? Are you insane? So it could just be that Ashes of Singularity is a popular one for companies to use because it has a very wide range of technology support you know directx 12 sli things that real games for whatever reason can't implement but this one can and uh and i guess they're they're real cooperative about using it um so so that's my guess is whether accidentally or on purpose i think this came straight from amd there you know what no i i do think i don't

think it happened on purpose i think it was probably an accident because they were probably using it internally to create the decks for the presentation for the launch of zen 3 i'm on i'm on board with your previous opinion to a certain degree because we've seen this a lot over the last few years like these these totally not intentional leaks that come from companies like it's it's been happening a ton so i like yeah maybe it is maybe it isn't but i wouldn't be surprised at all if it if it was an intentional leak it's also really hard to keep things under wraps like i mean you saw the whole thing with uh what was it um uh was it and i think it was uh tesla that had like a literal spy like yeah try to steal and try to steal uh data from their company

like like this is a thing when you're when you have you know something like a new iphone the week before it launched like i would not be surprised if you could get tens of thousands of dollars for it from some publication that wants to break the news of what the new iPhone looks like early or whatever the case may be. Yep. Yeah, definitely. I think we got to the bottom of the Ashley Singularity thing. I can't find, like, actual proof of this, but it seems like it was included in a humble bundle and then everyone immediately quit playing oh ouch sad at least they started playing it which for humble bundles is is probably yeah that's pretty good that's pretty good quick ltd store. mention. Not going to talk a ton about it today.

We're not launching anything, but those crew neck sweaters that we announced on the last WAN show, there are less than 100 left and restock is going to take a few months. So if you want a nice snuggly sweater to wear for the winter, then make sure you place an order now.

Heads up to those that were able to get a foil keyboard shirt, by the way, they are shipping out next week. Also, LTT Store is hiring. Just go to linusmediagroup.com for information. Hiring like six people or something stupid like that. All right, another big news. Google drops the new Pixel 5, Pixel 4a 5G,

Chromecast with Google TV and Nest Audio. It's Techtober. It's a pun. So let's talk about, really for me me what is the big news on the pixel 5 the fact that it is sporting a snapdragon 765g this is an soc that launched in hold on a second let me just have a let me just have a quick look at the launch date of this particular processor uh one plus nord unveiled on july 21st no no come on when did it come out have you had the release date expanded full story uh whatever it's not new it's it's not

particularly new and more importantly while it does have new features, if I recall correctly, it has built in 5G support compared to what manufacturers have had to do, like bolting 5G support onto the Snapdragon 865 chipset, like the flagship chipset uh so i believe it has 5g support but in terms of performance it is actually a downgrade not just from flagship socs today but actually from the previous pixel like what so luke tell me this yes would you buy a brand new pixel that is slower than your old pixel yes what why i didn't expect i didn't think you were gonna expect that answer um is that the only reason you said that because no no i don't need speed in my phone anymore but why have it slower if if there's other benefits i'm not i'm not sure but if there if there if there are other benefits to it like if somehow i i don't think this is true but if somehow it's better for battery life if somehow it does these other things sure because i absolutely do not need performance on my phone anymore i'm still running a pixel 2 XL. And the only reason why I'm hungry for an upgrade is one,

I can't solve notification problems. I've received all your emails. I've received the tweets. None of it's working. I actually have my SIM in my Pixel 1 and the notifications are fine. So I'm actually using a Pixel 1 more often than anything else, which is great.

My other problem with my Pixel 2 is the proximity sensor is busted. Got it. So if I answer a call, I can't dial. Got it. Because it always thinks that it's up next to my face. So I want a new phone because of that. If those two problems didn't exist,

I literally wouldn't want a new phone. There's no point. It wouldn't be worth, even if it was free, it wouldn't be worth the hassle of was free it wouldn't be worth the hassle of like migrating over to a new phone okay that's um that's a fair point um so like if if there is some form of benefit then sure because i genuinely do not care about increased performance at all i don't play games i don't do any of that kind of stuff. I don't need more performance to do emails. I don't need more performance to call people or send text messages or read Twitter. I don't need more performance to watch a YouTube video. I don't need more performance to use

Flowplane. I'm completely fine for what I do. That's fair. But if there isn't some other type of advantage for the decreased performance, then yeah sure if i'm paying for it i might as well get it okay um so in terms of other features uh 90 hertz refresh rate is still 90 hertz refresh rate compared to the pixel 4 face unlock has been ditched so uh apple's still holding on to it but um looks like the rest of the industry is like yeah yeah fingerprint readers were pretty good uh i actually really like the fingerprint reader on the fold so it's just built into the button like sony used to do with the xperia i don't know might still do i haven't used an xperia in a while uh like way back in the day it's it's it's pretty good um it's got eight gigs of ram instead of six gigs

reverse wireless charging now so you can charge your other stuff off your phone if you have a need to do that and ip68 ingress protection here's the thing that kind of bothers me a little bit though it's like it's priced at 700 us dollars which i guess is pretty reasonable for a flagship except that it's sort of not really not a flagship not really a flagship and i guess what i'm trying to say is if phone manufacturers themselves and google's not the only one like lg did the same thing with the velvet uh if phone manufacturers are starting to say okay yeah the performance of these things is like good enough then what i want to know is fine then where is the commitment to support this thing in the long term? Like three years is okay, but Apple is way ahead. And I understand that Apple gets a huge advantage in that they get massive revenue through the App Store to subsidize

their iPhone business should they see fit. But Google could easily do the same thing with their Play Store revenue. And I'm going to propose something really crazy right now that is probably going to be pretty unpopular. What if you could just pay a monthly fee for ongoing operating system support? Is that something that would help rather than hinder the industry like i think fragmentation is an enormous problem because you know from the manufacturer side of

things every device is going to have its own little quirks and you can collapse under the weight of it you know the internet hates it by the way they hate it they hate it just just i i have not seen a single person in chat vote with you every single person has been like no well then what's your solution what's your solution to be clear i'm not saying that it should be pay as you go from day one there should should be three years of committed software updates. But then what? When you're moving into your fourth year, would you rather have an option? Would you rather have it be garbage

and e-waste and end up in a landfill somewhere? And to be clear, I'm aware that obviously they can recycle a lot of the materials, but recycling is not an efficient process. It's not. So would you rather it ultimately, a perfectly otherwise working device, But recycling is not an efficient process. It's not.

So would you rather it ultimately, a perfectly otherwise working device that's now no longer getting security updates, would you rather it poison the earth or would you rather just keep using it if it cost you three bucks a month? Because remember, we're not talking about like three dollars a month compared to what you get for free now you should still get what you get for free now i'm just saying we need some kind of an option because it's very clear from all the analysis that's been done over the years of how apple has you know x percentage of the smartphone market in terms of revenue but has y percentage of the smartphone market in terms of actual profit like it's been very clear for a long time that the business model of android sort of handset makers is not great like it's not sustainable if we want devices

to last for a very long time. So we have to do something. And it's either you get ads all over your phone, which is clearly already happening, or you go the YouTube premium route and you say, okay, yeah, I get that it used to be free, but I'm willing to pay for this to keep working the way that I liked it now that we've determined that this model is not sustainable. So with that in mind,

do you guys hate it slightly less? Uh, spoiler alert. I, I don't think so. I think they still hate it just as much. Uh, just,

just reading the like responses. Well, I'd like it. I think, I think you are getting at least a somewhat, I'm not gonna, Twitch chat's gonna hate me now i could i could have gone the easier out here but i'm not i think you're getting at least somewhat an emotional response right um because like they're right now the option that you're getting is is

nothing you you if you get three years out of your device, you're probably lucky at this point. And then you're just dropped. So an option would be good. And to be clear, look, okay, we've got a super chat from Mark Lane, who apparently thinks it's worth spending $5 to send a text message on the internet, but doesn't think this is a good idea. Mark Lane goes, my Pixel XL works great, yet it's no longer supported why linus why well obviously you could still have the option to just not get security updates but that's not a great choice either there's some there's some yeah what isn't it like lineage os

i don't remember what it is but i think think it's Lineage OS. You could do this, but most people aren't going to do that. So another option is the legislative route. So you go to your representatives and you say, look, it should be illegal for perfectly functioning hardware to have absolutely no path forward. And you go, yeah, I understand that while you're selling this device, obviously you can't provide the tools or you don't want to provide the tools

to allow lineage OS to be installed on it or whatever. You know, you want to make sure that you're managing the user experience. But once it's past like its two-year window or something. Yeah, once it's past its window where you're not going to support it anymore, you must provide the tools. You must create this tool set so that someone else can carry on the work so that at least popular devices could still get support from the community.

So that's an option. But what are the freaking odds? What are the odds that's going to happen? None, basically. And it's true. We can't even agree net neutrality is a good idea luke well you and i can but um it it yeah i don't know pixel pixel one is is is pretty good it's got some big old bezels it's got big old bezels the screen is big pretty gross big bitty

bezels there's there's some things that definitely feel out of date, but the usability of it, like I can send emails on there completely fine. Nathan Green says, what about a one-time fee for the update? That's not how it works though. Like you got to understand, developers at these companies don't get paid one time.

So in order to build a sustainable support ecosystem for these products they have to know that there is predictable revenue coming i mean that's why the gaming industry moved towards first microtransactions which is basically what you're proposing by the way i thought we all agreed those were evil and then subscription services which is pretty much what i'm proposing i'm just skipping a step both and the one-time purchase yeah it's awesome you buy the one-time purchase you pay a subscription how about everything how about everything unless you're microsoft in which case you have enough money to buy the earth and all the heavens

and you just go yeah you pay the monthly fee for game pass we'll just give you an xbox go for it i mean not quite but games pass really is a very good deal it really is so okay you guys don't agree um fine i get it but you gotta understand too that while you may not agree with my way of framing this money you're paying for it somewhere. Epic's argument for how Apple's 30% gleaning of all app store revenue ultimately takes money out of the pockets of whether it's consumers, so whether the app developer would have charged a lower price

and you would have paid less. So whether it's consumers or developers, Apple's ultimately taking that money and going, let's put it in the however many hundreds of billions of dollars pile. You're paying for that. Whether it's from the point that you purchase the device, whether it's from the purchases you make for V bucks on the app store, or whether it's from a subscription service that just is what it says it is, A device maintenance, like software maintenance fee

that you pay on a monthly basis. It's all the same thing. It's all just how they frame it. Yeah, so Jaw Media says, or pay $1,600 for a device and have the updates included across the life of the device. Yeah, that's exactly the same thing. So why do devices keep getting more expensive?

Quite frankly, the hardware isn't that much more expensive. We actually, we know from working with a particular brand, I'm not gonna say who it is because I don't wanna get them in trouble, but let's see. Oh man, this is a really long email thread, but we actually know the price difference between a Snapdragon 865 and a 765G. And it's not as much as you might think. Let me just do a quick search for, oh man. Wait. Oh, oh, I think I found it. Oh, I think I found it.

Oh, I think I found it. Oh, I think I found it. Yeah, here we go. So I'm not naming anybody, but the difference in price for the component cost for the chipset is apparently about $70. So there's no reason why a phone that's equipped with a Snapdragon 865

needs to be $1,000 and one that's equipped with a 765g should be 700 bucks yeah uh like even if you make the assumption that every increasing cost doubles the retail price actually no that works out about right so if you say every increase in cost about doubles the retail price then yes that works out but the thing here is that like why why does it need to it's not like from a from a product development standpoint using uh uh an 865 you know made it take twice as long you might need you might need better cooling i don't think that needs to double your end user price, but you know, what, what do I know? I

charge the same price for two different sizes of water bottle that do not have the same cost to me. So I'm clearly just, I clearly don't understand business 2020 edition. All right. Well, that was not the answer I expected. Um, so how about this? Would you even bother buying a pixel five now that the pixel 4a 5g is out with a slightly larger screen compared to the 5.8 inch previous one so that's uh 6.2 inch display about the same size as the pixel 5 uh 6 gigs of ram so a little less ram i don't believe it has a 90 hertz display and it's just 500 us dollars same camera setup same camera setup. Same camera setup. You're muted.

Sorry, I was talking to my bird. I'm back. We're here. I need a new phone because of all the... I'm currently running dual phones and life sucks. And I've been waiting for this announcement, basically. And yeah, I'm currently leaning towards the 4a 5g 4a 5g looking pretty fly i honestly as much as we all meme is community about uh mobile gamers i would love to play mobile games if they didn't all suck they do suck and like i like there there

is there's there's some arguments for like okay the games that i like to play are not necessarily going to translate super well to a phone but that's not entirely true for everything it's pretty true though it is it is pretty true but it's also a bit of a cop-out that has been used to just make terrible games yeah that's true i mean there's no reason something like hearthstone i mean it was on mobile there's no and Yeah, that's true. I mean, there's no reason something like Hearthstone... I mean, it was on mobile. It was on mobile. And that's a truly compelling game that you got super into that's a mobile game.

And I did play a bit on my phone. I just haven't been playing for a while now. But that was one of the few that I think were genuinely really good. And there hasn't been very many. And the thing is, i guarantee you i absolutely guarantee you that the pixel 4a 5g will knock hearthstone out of the park it should be all right it won't be a problem so like and like almost anything that i would think of with the control

scheme that you have on a phone that would actually be a good experience in my opinion you can disagree with me as much as you want um it's gonna be pretty easy to run like if i could play like a tower defense game that wasn't laden down with microtransactions i'd just buy one yeah that'd be cool i'd like to have like warcraft 3 tower defense custom games on my phone that would be fantastic that would be awesome i would love to play winter mall tower defense like that would be great. 100%. But I can't. And if I could, it would run just freaking fine on a 4A 5G. So I just don't care. In other news...

I haven't been heavily motivated by phones in quite a long time. In other news, the new Nest Audio is squarely focused on bringing higher quality sound to those who are already in the Google Home ecosystem. They claim 50% more bass and 75% more volume compared to the previous Google Home. There's a 19mm tweeter for high frequency sound and a 75mm midwoofer to bring that bass. And it'll come in five shades.

Notably, it's available for just $100 US. Dang. Sonos, watch out. Because that whole thing where you guys charge a lot of money for your smart speakers looks like it's not going to be a thing for much longer. Sonos be mad

too about Google apparently, allegedly infringing their patents. So we're going gonna see how that plays out finally there's a chromecast tv with google tv which is great because google tv is is great and uh yeah so it's i mean it's just a rebranding of like android tv but um hey cool and youtube tv is integrated there's an entire live tv section that acts as like a live guide but it does not support stadia at least at launch for all dozens of you out there who are running stadia congratulations by the way thanks for paving the paving the way for the rest of us

hey no i'm serious i'm serious right now like i'm not gonna think stadia is gonna stick around you don't think they're just gonna drop it okay well Okay, well, it's Google, so they might drop it, but not everybody will. What did they drop recently? Oh, yeah, yeah. Remember, I think it was on WAN Show last week. We were joking about Google Cardboard. I'm like, does anybody still do that? Yeah, they formally dropped Daydream.

Daydream as a whole, really? Daydream's whole VR, Google's whole VR, AR strategy seems to have been a bunch of engineers that got a nerd on for it a few years ago. And we're like, wow, we should like... And then there was no business case for it whatsoever because people are not going to do that. Like they're not going to put their phone

in some stupid holder and strap it to their head to like watch netflix that's ridiculous it's not comfortable and it looks awful um and so they've accepted that it's dead like honestly sometimes i really do wonder if google practically runs like Valve, where you just wander around and work on stuff that you think is interesting, roll your desk over to like, you know, I don't know, the Hangouts Meet project. Like, oh, hey, wow, this is like got the same name as like Hangouts, but like Meet. Is it a corporate offering? No, not really. Oh, it's just, it's like, if I have the Hangouts app and the Hangouts Meet app on my phone, I'll just get two notifications for the same message. Wow, that seems like a great idea. I'm gonna roll my desk right up here. And I mean, don't get me

started on YouTube Stories. YouTube Stories has gotten, as far as I can tell, like two updates since they launched it over a year ago. And get this, get this. The first fold, my first complaint that I couldn't use the Galaxy Fold as my daily driver because YouTube Stories doesn't work on it, for what reason, I don't know, was 10 months ago. And yet, here we are ladies and gentlemen I press the create

button and I got well whatever you can't see that don't worry about it I got go live and I got video no stories no community posts why what difference does it make just put the

button in there 10 months 10 months like they've got this completely like scatterbrained approach to product development i don't understand how they get anything done usually it seems like unless something completely blows it out of the park, it's dead. And Stadia, sure as heck, did not blow it out of the park. So I'm expecting it's just dead in the water. I don't think it's going to go anywhere. Have I talked? Yeah, go ahead.

When Google abandons something, it's not like they open sourced it all. No. You're just... So the paving the way idea the reason why i like jumped on that is like it's just it's just dead and all the work they did on it is just gonna rot okay so here's a good one uh i was a happy google play music user uh google play music is getting sunsetted very soon well you didn't even pay for it, but I was a happy paying Google Play Music user and their son setting it in favor of YouTube music. I have sent a complaint about this to the

YouTube team because apparently it's like YouTube now. I'm like, hey, you guys have a couple of absolutely game breaking problems here that are going to turn me from a paying customer into a non-paying customer. Here they are in no particular order. Number one, Google Play Music can cast directly to my Sonos ecosystem in my house that I have spent hundreds, nay, thousands of dollars on at this point. YouTube Music needs to do that. If it doesn't, I'm going to Spotify,

which has that functionality because I hate Sonos' own app. It's horrible. So what I want is to use the native app for my music service and then just cast it to my Sonos speakers. That's the world I want to live in. They're like,

that's great feedback. Thanks. Number two. Get this. On my family plan, which I had for Google Play Music and I intend to continue having for YouTube Music, on my family plan, which I had for Google Play Music, and I intend to continue having for YouTube music on my family plan, I have my children, and you. So all my dependents, you know, basically. So I got my so I got you and I got my kids, right. And they use Google Play Music all the time, because they

can play music in their room. I've got a Sonos speaker in almost every room in my house now and they like listening to music and they're pretty tech savvy. My son's got a phone, so they use it. YouTube music has the same damn restrictions as the full YouTube video app. So if you're under 13, you can't use it. What is the point of a family plan for a service

that your kids can't use it what is the point of a family plan for a service that your kids can't use how is that how is that a thing i don't know if they've actually fixed that one yet but like how can you be like yeah here's the date when this service is going away completely by the way if you have a family or if you have a third-party smart speaker, name it a burp burp. I don't get it. How are you a billions of dollars company? And what was wrong? Honestly, what was wrong with Google Play Music?

If you had to have it be YouTube music, just rebrand it or something. I'm sure there's some technical reason. The YouTube reason app is just super not as good as well like no like is it as simple as they just the licensing for like music videos and stuff and stuff that they because i noticed that there were songs that are like clearly uploaded through like vivo accounts like officially to youtube that for whatever reason i couldn't listen to in google play music was it was this just a licensing thing if so just copy that code base and add the features like why are you reinventing the wheel all the time why are you reinventing the wheel all the time just stop google just stop for your own good just stop leave google music alone

ah just makes me so angry like how is reminders still not working for g suite users i cannot set a reminder on my phone because i pay for the for the feature or for the service if i had it for free if i had it for free the feature would work how does that make any sense months i use the the like root main account for my phone i use as my personal account so that i can set reminder well i don't have like a personal it would oh it takes so much work for me to move all my calendars and all my crap over to my personal gmail account like i don't it's annoying i did this like i think i did that with my shift to my pixel 2xl so dumb because my my previous one was my like work email

because i actually prefer it that way for like a bunch of reasons but now i've shifted it over so dumb yeah just like this segue to our sponsor first sponsor honey honey is a free shopping tool that finds i'm so angry right now, that finds the best promo codes wherever you shop online. It's sites like Amazon, eBay, New Egg, Razor, Best Buy, Walmart, and more. Those of you who've downloaded Honey from our link

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This was the right move from NVIDIA. I like this. They have delayed the RTX 3070 launch to the end of October, and they're doing this to allow for more stock to build up so that there might be some freaking chance that you can actually buy one. um, just to, you know, make life easier for the, the, the gamers and the, the shopkeepers who, who all want to, you know, get their hands on this shiny new, uh, shiny new technology. And as far as I can tell, it actually appears to be, hold on a second. Let me, let me let me check something real quick here does it use the same die does it use the actual same die as so if the full ga blah blah blah ga 104 uh ba-dum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum ga 104 yeah no it actually it actually uses a different core i actually I have not looked into the 3070 much yet. I'll figure it all out when we're doing the review. So if this was a product where NVIDIA was going to be using harvested cores

and selling them at a lower price, you could say, oh, well, they're probably just stalling so that they can sell more 3080s, let's say, for example. Sell more 3080s and people won't have the 3070 as an option. They're worried the 3070 will cannibalize 3080 sales. But what actually seems to be happening here is because this is an entirely new core that is not shipping in any other product right now, NVIDIA may just be straight up trying to make life a little bit easier for someone who wants to get one on launch day because it would be in NVIDIA's best interest knowing that they are going to sell

every single unit regardless. It would be in NVIDIA's best interest to take the money earlier rather than later. Remember, this is a product that they have spent, I don't know how many, tens, hundreds, thousands of millions of dollars building. Probably not a billion dollars for this one in particular, although it wouldn't surprise me if Ampere as a whole cost them a billion dollars.

But this is a product that they spent definitely millions and millions of dollars developing, and I'm sure they want to return on that investment sooner rather than later. So they are actually just putting it off for a few weeks here so that there there's a chance that if you're one of the enthusiasts who really wants one on launch day you'll actually be able to get one i say good guy i say good guy move um anthony's saying the radion event i see you see that yeah yeah the radion event is on the 28th so uh you know maybe not entirely good guys you know they could also be trying to trying to see uh what amd is doing first i also suspect that if i'm nvidia i have a pretty good idea of

what's coming from amd at this point it is amazing how much intel those companies have on each other um like for realsies so blah blah it's likely the 3070 will be the best price to performance ratio of the 3000 series. We're expecting 2080 Ti performance for about $500. But of course, that remains to be seen. I think even if they had the stock available, that like this launch wouldn't be problematic. I think delaying the launch and I don't think that's the case at at all i don't think they have the stock just to be very clear yeah i'm just saying even if they did delaying the launch and saying that they did it for stock reasons would have been a win for them anyway yeah that's fair that's fair um like i think i think this was the right move like almost

no matter what situation they're in, just because they got so much flack for like an ill-prepared response previously. And I think it's similar to like the gaming industry right now. People are getting very tired of these like terrible game launches where things aren't ready and there's like bugs out the gate.

And now companies are starting to get praised for pushing game launches back yep which is like kind of whack but honestly it is probably the right way to approach it because if if you're pushing a game launch if you're pushing something that's going to make you money back you're probably doing it because you need to for some reason other than getting money as much money as you can as fast as possible yeah and you're gonna win you're gonna win appreciation from your audience for doing that so yeah i think they're winning some mind share and also being able to place it right right behind amd's launch so if amd surprises them if amd surprises them somehow it's a lot easier to drop your price before you've actually put any cards

in the hands of customers than it is to do it after you've put cards in the hands of customers so if amd like pulls off some kind of coup here um nvidia has the option to issue after they've shipped the product rebates to their board partners and retailers if they want to i suspect there's not going to be that many surprises but i think that's just me like that's like a defense mechanism for me at this point about amd like i just i'm pretty i'm pretty i'm pretty bullish on like cpu right now but man amd gpu has disappointed me so many times that I'm just like, yeah, whatever. Sure. Let's see. Let's see what happens.

Microsoft announces Surface Laptop Go and new Surface Pro X. The Surface Laptop Go has a 12.4 inch 1536 by 1024 touch display, a 720p webcam, Core i5-1035G1. That's decent. Four gigs of RAM, okay, 64 gigs of eMMC storage, which is pretty lame, for $549. Um, I guess so? And the Surface Pro X, literally the same as the last Surface Pro X, but with the new Microsoft SQ2 processor. And what's interesting about this is that it's basically a modified Snapdragon 8CX Gen 2, which is a barely modified 8CX. But Windows on ARM is getting exciting

because we are leading into the next story here. Microsoft is planning to solve Windows on ARM's biggest flaw beginning in November. In a lengthy blog post, this is crazy. Microsoft outlined plans for future ARM development, including a new native Teams application and 64-bit x86 emulation support. Super cool. It's happening. 64-bit emulation support has long been a stumbling block for windows on arm as more and more software is compiled for 64-bit processors because it's been like

i don't know when did the athlon 64 come out like 2008 it's been like 12 years so that meant that until this announcement if you had a windows on device, you had to hope that there was either an ARM native version of the app or 32-bit version of the app in order to run it at all. What's up, Luke? 2003. 2003. Oh, wow. So I was way off.

Sorry about that. Over 15 years. This is the second major x86 emulation layer that Microsoft has added to Windows on ARM with the previous Windows 8-based Windows RT having no x86 app support whatsoever. Now, we have no idea what the performance will be like. It could be terrible,

but any performance is a lot better than, nope, lol. Yeah, absolutely. Because that's a big drawback. Like a lot of people don't need to game on their laptop. I almost never run a game on my laptop. And if I did did a lot of the time i would be at home where i could use a game streaming service and not not not one that i subscribe to i don't subscribe to any but i could just stream off of my desktop using geforce now um wait is that what is that what is

it still called that game stream okay sorry geforce now is the the other one rebranded like three times whatever who cares that would shield something um anyway uh so yeah there's i'm not too worried about things like game support because that's not who they're going after like they're going after the people who might buy you know a macbook right as long as i have at least the option to run any app that i would want to this is this makes arm on a mobile device like a laptop finally kind of something that could get to me like if i had a laptop that i only had to charge like once a week oh that would be amazing you throw like a big fat, like 70 watt hour battery in this thing. And what is effectively a Snapdragon processor. Oh man. Like, like two days of screen time.

Wow. I'd be super into that. All right. Should we do the bounty? I suspect just one quick thing before we go forward. I think this is going to be super problematic. You just think it won't work very well? Yeah.

Yeah, that wouldn't surprise me. I think, and I don't, okay. I was just about to say, I think they're going to do a bad job. And I don't think that's actually necessarily the case. It's just really hard. I think the result is going to be bad. Yeah.

Like they might do a great job and I still think it's probably going to be really rough. Yeah. I mean, also sometimes Microsoft's developers are not the best like what's up with that super tiny notification in the teams app that indicates that you're not signed in the teams app yeah well but but okay yeah i i can't and like okay i don't use teams all the time i use it pretty infrequently maybe like once a week so i'm not exactly the greatest like teams user use case thing but sometimes it can take me like days to figure out i'm signed

out of teams yeah because it's just this like tiny little yellow bar it's yellow i thought it was great whatever color it is it's not eye-catching and the entire app looks perfectly normal unless you try to send a message and it it's like, oh, couldn't send. But if I remember correctly, it doesn't actually like say why. No, I don't think so. Couldn't send. So you have to be like, oh, crap, I'm signed out again. Unbelievable.

I have fairly intense password security. And it logs me out on my phone. All the time. All the time. It's so annoying. And things on my phone generally don't log me out on my phone all the time all the time it's so annoying and things on my phone generally don't log me out on my phone like slack whatsapp telegram like what are all the other messaging applications that i use that do for whatever reason they don't need to log me out every three days and we've been we've been complaining to microsoft about this ever since

we made the switch that was like a year ago like what are you guys doing nobody else requires this so annoying really rough so like i'm basically never logged into teams on my phone so i don't get teams notifications on my phone which is like hugely problematic in its own right it's super annoying anyways sorry bounty bounty time bounty time i i don't even know if i want this do i even want this thing what even is this i mean you definitely don't have to commit to a bounty there's there's been cooler weird cards that i've seen i'll say that much all right all right but i don't really it is pretty neat though i don't really understand this uh like why i don't really understand why this is like a not safe for work thing not safe for work yeah if you click through to the the like reddit thread it's like to everyone

that loves amd ati graphics cards click to see not safe for work it's just a graphics oh i i bet you they're trying to be like it's it's it's like it's gore oh okay very funny i guess because i yeah i think they're i think they're memeing on it if your subreddit is called tech support gore like you think yeah whatever it doesn't matter the point is yeah uh this is the his x 1600 pro dual dvi it is a dual interface graphics card with both agp here on the bottom and pci express here on the top this would be pci express 1.0 or 1.1 or something like that way back in the day if you have one of these i'm not paying that much for this this is really not worth a lot of money i'll give you i'll give you 250 bucks for it. We've also talked about this before working. It has to be working. So get in,

get in touch with us. And, uh, even though I know nothing would happen, I would love to see someone try to try to boot, um, two computers that are like on each end. The thumbnail for that would also be amazing.

Yeah, that would, that would also be amazing yeah that would that would almost definitely break something i there's just no way the card probably the card because if it's being if it's receiving power through both slots that would be probably bad maybe both motherboards like i don't know how because there's no way the engineers would have accounted for that like that's the that's not even an edge case. That's like a senseless, needless destruction of our product case. Like, nah, dog.

Nah, dog. I'm just, I'm so curious what would happen. Tell you what, if we get one, I will allow you to personally press the power button. Okay. Oh, geez. Okay. Robert Mail sent a super chat Rip the people who missed the first hour Of the show over on floatplane

And twitch We should start making the pre pre show Like floatplane exclusive There's no real reason Now that floatplane streaming works better There's no real reason for us to have it on twitch Sorry twitch I haven't decided Maybe we'll continue to do it on twitch the main

reason we don't have it on youtube is because we don't want to send out a notification and then realize we have like audio problems uh dylan dylan dylan kessel says what would you choose between a 144 hertz um 1080p monitor for dollars or a valve index for a thousand dollars i currently have a 1080 i guess that's your graphics card you're talking about and 260 hertz monitors man well you don't have to go like full ham index and like and what do you do what do you want to do yeah like if you want to like you know if you want to pull an anthony and like start playing beat saber every day and like lose some weight like then you should probably get a vr headset but like index is very overkill like i think anthony was trying he had cheaped out on a

bunch of other stuff in his home upgrade setup and he was like trying to go index and i was like dude no just here have my old vive because like you don't even know if you're going to use it a ton that's like buying a peloton bike and not even knowing if like you know you like riding a bike at all you know like just get just get something on craigslist and find out if you even like it and then invest a bunch of money into it right uh meaningless says please don't ever forget to tell those in your life how much you love them and how grateful you are for them you never know how long you have with them i just buried my three and a half year old son three weeks ago wow um i am very sorry to hear that i had started reading

that message before i had finished reading the end of it so i guess my tone didn't make a ton of sense at the beginning of that i'm really sorry to hear that i'm also sorry to hear that man it's like i don't even yeah i don't even i don't even like to imagine it sometimes when i go into my kids room just to i go into my kids room at night just to see them sleeping i don't know whatever they're they're little kids if they were teenagers that would be a little weirder um but for now, I go in at night sometimes. I just go and make sure they're okay, you know. And every once in a while, they'll be sleeping really, really deeply. And they'll be breathing really, really slowly.

And I have these panic moments. Is your chest moving? Oh, it is. Okay. Sometimes I have to get real close to, like, make sure. And then once I panic about one of them i have to check all of them like they're all breathing right because like that's your worst nightmare as a parent yeah sorry to hear that man um tommy on a lighter note uh yeah someone when when we when we said the like when i said the screw you twitch nerds and we said potentially

doing the pre-show just on Flowplane, one of the Twitch comments that I thought was funny was just in all caps, we made you who you are today. No, you didn't. Not so much. We love you guys. We love you guys. You got spunk.

You got spunk, you know? Yeah. You got moxie. Tommy Gunn asks, when will your main rig get a 3090 i don't know the only game i've played in the last like two weeks has been among us which ain't exactly demanding and then the next game i'm planning to play is left for dead 2 so the reason i even upgraded to a 2080 ti like what was i even running before it was i think it was like a titan x like first gen titan x or something like that like i hadn't upgraded in a long time and the only reason i moved to uh to anything better was actually because uh of ano

1800 and i'm not really playing ano anymore so um yeah i i it'll be when i have a game that i like really need to play that's actually demanding uh theorica says a humorous version of colton's pie chart for new shirt merge oh that would be kind of okay once we have the integration that luke's team is working on between floatplane and creator warehouse which is our merch company once we have that we could totally do small runs because what prevents us right now from doing limited edition like very small runs of shirts is not actually the cost or the logistics really like we've got the workflow pretty down like we do tens of thousands of shirts these days and doing a hundred or something is no big deal.

The problem is that it creates all kinds of customer support problems when you don't pre-print them because people don't read and they don't understand. So if what we're doing is something that's just for the hardcores, we can count on them to understand that this is gonna take two to three weeks

because that's how long the process takes of getting a shirt order in, getting it to the printer, quality checking, forwarding from the printer to our distribution center, and then it actually shipping out. That's just how long it takes. So yeah, if you guys wanted to do stuff like that, we could totally do it, 100%. We could even have like fan submitted designs be like you know you know shirt design contest yeah we'll give you we'll give you 500 bucks or whatever if you design a shirt we'll turn around and you know make a hundred of them

we'd totally be into that kind of thing um but we'd have to be able to lock it down so that the general population doesn't have access to it because it would just generate a ton of support tickets. And we, that would cost us more than we would make on the shirt. And that's just the reality of that type of business. Nate says you should schedule the Wancho on YouTube so we can sit in a waiting area and have the show auto start when the stream starts. No,

I shouldn't just in case we're super late. Jacob Callahan says I bought your shirt three sizes too small. And when I asked you guys for help, I got everything small and larger, no extra plus free packs of zip ties. Love your customer service. I bought your shirt three sizes too small. When I asked you guys for help,

I got everything small and larger, everything small and larger. I know no extra plus. i don't understand what you're talking about but apparently you're happy good heck yeah awesome success uh okay calvin says don't really see the purpose of higher performance flagship phones my note 8 runs fine yeah fair point man i'm running the note 9 and i'm still pretty into it like 5g is i'm gonna have to wait until there's like some compelling killer app for it because like yeah it's faster and that's good and it's great to like it's great to have you know better tech like if i was buying a phone

today i'd probably want one with 5g yeah sure but if I'm not buying a phone today, I'm not going to run out and buy one just for 5G. No. Sachifu says, Linus, you're not an evil mega rich corporation. That's why this is worth it. And a subscription based phone is not. Hashtag cancel Linus. Hashtag early retirement.

I don't know what these hashtags are after here, but thank you for that, I think. I feel like you're not an evil corporation, but I'm canceling you anyways i'm definitely a corporation as for how rich i am there's people over on floatplane taking a shot at it in the comments under the how does lmg make money uh v2 video it's been interesting for me to read through them very interesting i've seen some very wrong stuff. I was going to say, I haven't looked too deeply through them, but I've seen a few. And there's some flawed logic there, but it was good effort. There's some A plus for effort going on there.

And like with with the information that they have, I think, yeah, they're doing a really good job. Oh, wow. After hearing four weeks of evidence in the extradition trial of Julian Assange, District Judge Vanessa... I don't know how to pronounce that. Announced on Thursday that she'll pronounce judgment on January the 4th. Interesting. Oh, boy.

It's a huge gap. Why? Damien says, if cast youtube music to my google home i can't shuffle playlists from a song yeah shuffle it's like super stupid in the youtube music app why are you getting me going on the youtube music app again it is so unintuitive shuffle is something that there's only two correct ways to do shuffle okay way number one is when i press the shuffle button it continues playing the song that i'm playing until it's done and then randomizes two correct ways to do shuffle. Okay, way number one is when I press the shuffle button, it continues playing the song that I'm playing until it's done,

and then randomizes everything from there on. And way number two, oh, and it toggles. There's an indicator to show that it is enabled. Way number two. To show like highlighted, like your speakerphone or something would. Way number two is that it goes into my now playing list. It dumps everything that I shuffled

into my now playing list in a random order and then puts it on repeat all. That is correct way number two. If it's anything other than that, it's not correct. That's it. Oh, now ZTO says, I wouldn't switch to Spotify if I were you.

The shuffle is broken. I keep hearing the same 50 songs out of a thousand plus on playlist no because i only have one playlist i'm one of those people that's just like thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up and then i only play my thumbs up like i don't who has time to like micromanage playlists oh man northern rebel says what are your thoughts on ek pre-built computers do they have pre-built systems? No. EKfluidgaming.com.

Look at that. EK is a system integrator now. Huh. Well, good for them. I mean, it looks pretty sharp, but it looks dated. I don't really have any thoughts on that because I found out for the first time just now. I don't see any reason why they couldn't build a computer, I guess.

I mean, really what it's going to come down to is customer service, obviously. And EK has definitely had some missteps, but they've by and large managed to maintain their reputation over the years. I suspect they would do a great job of the like water cooling and shipping yeah probably i mean they certainly know their shiz as far as that goes yeah so like that's cool all right that's pretty much it for the wan show really appreciate you guys tuning in.

We will see you again next week. Same bat time, same bat channel. Goodbye. Bye. WAN show had a crazy number of live viewers today. We're at like 25,000. That's a lot for Wancho. Yeah, I know, right?

Like 20k over on YouTube, another 4k. Even though we were guessing it was poor Twitch. Another 4k over there and then plus go things. Poor Twitch. Crazy. It's hard to be Twitch, man. Think about it.