The WAN Show - This Has Never Happened Before - WAN Show October 14, 2022

Episode Date: October 17, 2022

Try FreshBooks free, for 30 days, no credit card required at https://www.freshbooks.com/wan Deploy a cloud server in seconds with Hetzner at https://www.hetzner.com/cloud?pk_source=youtube&pk_content=yt-cloud-2022 Get Exclusive NordSecurity deals here ➼ https://nordsecurity.com/wan All products are risk-free with Nord's 30-day money-back guarantee! Timestamps (Courtesy of NoKi1119) Note: Timing may be off due to sponsor change 0:00 Chapters 1:06 Intro 1:36 Topic #1 - NVIDIA unlaunches RTX "4080 12GB" 2:30 NVIDIA's misleading cards naming 7:18 History of shameful corporal behavior 10:06 NVIDIA's "apology" showcases store queues 11:38 LTT's video on ARC for AV1, ideas & GPUs discussion 14:52 Topic #2 - Google AI struggles with FP's Privacy Policy 19:22 YouTube's Creator Summit, issues with AI 23:32 Topic #3 - Netflix launches ad-based subscription 26:16 Rate of ads per hour, interrupting movies 28:56 Discussing ad blocking & downgrading 33:42 LTTStore new merch 34:36 LTTStore beanie colors 35:53 LTTStore backpack updates 37:24 Merch Messages #1 37:30 Noctua's paste guard 38:36 Tech tips for toddlers & babies, discussing Yeezy's 46:00 Linus's thoughts on EV bikes 49:26 Topic #4 - Sony is against Microsoft-Blizzard acquisitions 51:28 Counter-arguments, Microsoft's article 55:42 Luke on another Blizzard lawsuit 59:24 Sponsors 1:02:00 Failing to call Colton Potter 1:03:12 Topic #5 - Meta's Quest Pro VR headset 1:05:48 Discussing price & specs 1:08:33 Moore's law, generational leaps 1:12:06 AI erases NHL players 1:14:46 Discussing Meta 3, Meta 2 Amazon reviews 1:17:19 Colton Potter announces LTX 2023 dates 1:19:55 Topic #6 - Discussing Mark Bench 1:20:32 Weird data on LTT's RTX 4090 video 1:22:46 Topic #7 - Microsoft Surface Pro 8 & X 1:23:01 Discussing pricing & specs, all-Intel 1:23:44 Microsoft Surface Studio 2 Plus 1:24:04 Merch Messages #2 1:24:13 Did Linus try playing pickleball? 1:25:25 Tips for transitioning into adult independence 1:26:02 Whale investors 1:32:08 Experiencing issues after PC building 1:34:08 Would LOUQE go out of business? 1:38:58 Software development & testing 1:41:45 SoundCore Sleep A10 1:42:01 Why not use OpenBenchmarking? 1:43:54 Convincing a boss to invest, LMG content exclusivity 1:50:14 FP Poll: to use exclusives occasionally? 1:53:54 Outro Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Listen closely. That's not just paint rolling on a wall. It's artistry. A master painter carefully applying Benjamin Moore Regal Select Eggshell with deftly executed strokes. The roller lightly cradled in his hands, applying just the right amount of paint. It's like hearing poetry in motion. Benjamin Moore, see the love. What is up, y'all?

And welcome to the WAN Show. We've got a fantastic show lined up for you all today. The big news, of course, is NVIDIA's unlaunch, which I take to mean, based on what they're doing, is the opposite of a launch. That's where you retract a launch. They're unlaunch of the RTX 4080 12 gig. We're going to be getting into the details of that in other news.

The MetaQuest Pro is going to be $1,500. But don't worry, VR is going to be mainstream very soon very soon says mark there's too much ai or maybe not enough is that a main topic i want it to be really your little spat with google over your privacy policy on your little float would you prefer here the microsoft surface event is that deeply intriguing to you? Do you get riled up in the morning about the Microsoft Surface event, Linus? Tell me more about the Microsoft Surface event. Do you know all the details of the Microsoft Surface event?

Okay, all right, all right. Let's just roll the intro. No, no, the intro's rolling. Had enough snark. Why don't we jump right into the big topic today, NVIDIA's unlaunch of the RTX 4080 12 gig. Amazing. First of all, for context guys nvidia announced the rtx 4090 4080 with 16 gigs of ram and 4080 with 12 gigs of ram at the same time but they were

as they have done in previous generations planning to stagger out the actual availability of these cards as well as any specifics when it comes to performance as measured by third-party reviewers like yo what that means then is that this card was not really uh it was announced but not necessarily actually launched um and the reason that there's been a controversy and the reason that NVIDIA has come out and said that we're not going to go ahead and launch this was that community members felt that the naming for the card was very misleading. And honestly, I feel exactly the same way. This is exactly what you and I talked about back when NVIDIA launched the GTX 680.

So that was like eight years ago, nine years ago or something like that. And the reason that we felt that way about it was that the GTX 680 did not feature a top tier die. It didn't feature a big die version of Kepler. It actually featured a size-down die compared to the previous generation Fermi flagship, the 580. And so for us, we were looking at it going,

hey, we couldn't help noticing this is more of like a 70-class card. Yo, what's the deal with that? Because NVIDvidia has traditionally at least until quite recently reserved their eight number whether we're going all the way back to you know the 8800 gtx um i mean even the 8800 gts i believe used the g80 die if i recall correctly so uh so typically they reserved the number 8 for their top spec chip. And it wasn't until the 680, as far as I remember anyway, I could be a little fuzzy on the details,

that they went and they took a tiered down chip, and were like, yeah, you know what? We actually managed to improve performance so much, generation over generation, that we're going to take a second tier chip and we're going to we're going to brand it as a flagship. So I do object to I do object to any naming scheme that is seems to be designed to intentionally mislead the consumer. Now that I think about it, we probably should have taken AMD to task for skipping a generation going from 5,000 to 7,000 with Ryzen.

I find that sort of behavior extremely, extremely frustrating and unnecessary when it could be as easy as, hey, the first number is the generation of product. Now, I think the justification for that is that there was a Zen 3 Plus 6,000 series refresh on mobile or something like that. It's often mobile. NVIDIA does the same thing. They'll launch a just mobile, or I think one time it was like a just Best Buy or something. Yeah, well, they completely ignored, I believe it was GTX 300. They went from 200 to 400 because, I don't know.

Except there was, as you said, like an OEM only card that you could get in like a Lenovo prebuilt or something, but it was actually a 200 series and it was rebranded. So there was no reason for it to exist at all. And yeah, people are pointing out in the chat that they actually skipped twice because they also went from Ryzen 3000 to 5000. So they're just like, yeah,

we're advancing really fast here. You know, we're really pumping out those new, those new generations. All you're really doing is racing to a point, we're really pumping out those new generations. All you're really doing is racing to a point where you're going to have to come up with another naming scheme and that's going to be annoying. At least do what Intel does and, you know,

launch that non-generation in between. Okay, okay. That's not entirely fair. That's not entirely fair. So the point is that I object to any naming scheme that seems to intentionally obfuscate what the product actually is and when you call this card this 4080 12 gig when you call it a 4080 the implication to me the consumer and i mean in the last generation they did use a top tier chip for their 80 card. The implication to me, the consumer, is that this is a top spec piece of silicon.

And the only difference is the RAM capacity. And the only difference is the RAM capacity. But in actuality, based on NVIDIA's own first party benchmarks that showed the 12 gig version underperforming the 16 gig version by up to 30 percent so the reality is that this is a 40 60 ti realistically is what it actually is if we were to look at all the different tiers of silicon that nvidia produces and say okay yeah 80 is top 70 is often actually top but cut down but sometimes a next one down and 60 and 60 ti things start to get a little bit murky in fact there have been situations where they've actually used different dies for a 60 or 60 ti class product um where like it's a big one that's cut way down or a smaller one that has all of the features functional so

if we're being realistic this is like a 60 ti class product at best um and maybe with the new making room for it you know the 90 okay maybe it's a it's a 40 70 but i i i think that it's pretty clear that this was misleading i think a lot of members of the community felt that it's pretty clear that this was misleading. I think a lot of members of the community felt that it was misleading and we've got to at least give NVIDIA credit, I guess, for once again, unlike some other megacorporations, at least having some shame.

When we took them to task over their treatment of hardware unboxed, did they or did they not reverse course? They did. Okay. Sure. When hard OCP took them to task. Is it shame?

Hold on, hold on. Or is it damage control? When hard OCP took them to task for, what was it, Project Greenlight? I don't remember what it was, but I remember this happening. Yeah, I believe it was the Greenlight program where they clamped down on overclocking partner cards which probably is well not probably is was one of the considerations for evga dropping out of the gpu market how are you supposed to differentiate your product if you can't even

differentiate it because nvidia says no um so like the boring dad program is more like it actually that they didn't no they didn't really back down on that okay fine so they backed down on one thing and now a second thing yeah it's just damage control i don't think it's shame well i mean that does demonstrate a little bit of shame we've certainly seen other companies i think it's financially attached like i don't think that's what i'm saying with damage control you could have some financial shame okay okay so here here here here for example okay apple has been i don't think i don't think they're going this was wrong i feel shame i'll take the hit on this and fix it i think they're going this was a bad move by us which will financially not be a good thing for us to do let us adjust

this so that we make the more monies i don't even know if there would have been a financial impact because at the end of the day the consumers who actually look at benchmarks and watch or read reviews are going to know how things stack up the fps per dollar is what it ultimately comes down to plus some features right and for the people who don't do that plus some features right and for the people who don't do that they were just potentially gonna buy a cheaper die and think it was a 4080 i think i i don't think there's a financial my assumption is that they would do that and then people would rage and the rage would turn into potential sales for 5 000 series yeah or 6 000 series yeah maybe 7 000 maybe we'll skip two numbers 69 000 yes sure sure whatever whatever it might be let's go just do it amd

okay um but yeah i don't know i i don't i don't think nvidia feels shame personally okay all right fair enough i've watched them do many a thing that should result in shame and i have watched them just not care at all yeah in other news they literally turned their apology into a marketing exercise showing lineups of people to buy 4090s so okay um i guess that really is more supportive of your position than of mine but at least at least they unlaunch if they turn around and they launch this thing as 4070 i'm still going to be disappointed because i still think that's bs the you think it's a 40 60 ti i think it's a 40 60 ti that's that's what i think it is um i think that that fully functional maybe it's a 30 maybe it's a 40 70 if the if the 40 uh if the 40 80 die is like a 40 70 ti at some point like if we get a ti

for a small price uplift halfway through the cycle i mean you gotta assume nvidia's planning on that now oh yeah i don't think nvidia intended to slow down their release of new architectures of gpus from like every 12 to well maybe like 15 to 18 months actually they used to come even like inside a year like way back in the day but i don't think it was their intention to slow down from a yearly cadence ish to like two to three years true scott and flowplane chat said what about the board partners though what about them nvidia as far as i can tell does not care no so yeah yeah no i i think there's exactly zero f's given by board partners man you know what we did not do a good job of spelling out we did a video uh has it gone up yet i actually don't remember maybe it went up yeah yeah it went

up we went again no it's up it's up we went we did a video on using an arc gpu as a co-processor just for av1 encoding yeah and that's a pretty sweet video but we actually were really focused on if you had a last gen nvidia card and you don't need additional performance and you don't want to pay 900 for a 4060 ti with the wrong label on it right that was that was kind of the angle for the video but what we really should have done was we should have focused on hey this is the one feature that just kind of kills amd cards their encoder just has not been as good historically and apparently it's been improving i i know i keep saying that we need to take a closer look at it apparently it's been improving my understanding is it's still not on par with nvank though so maybe what we should have done is positioned it as the solution to NVIDIA is AMD plus Intel.

Which if I told you that like two or three years ago, you would have told me I was an idiot. Yeah. Right. But it'd be cool. But with how much cheaper an equivalently performant Radeon card is right now. Right. For like a 6800 or like a 6700 right now right for uh you know like a 6800 or like a 6700 right now man those things absolutely rip so if all you need is a good video encoder with how much cheaper they are that's actually

a totally viable alternative man so in a full-plane chat said maybe they're trying to avoid lawsuits like the gtx 970 i think that's a completely different situation. Yeah, that's a different situation. For those of you who are not up on that, basically they had a version of the 970 that was three and a half gigs of the four gigs of memory ran at full speed. And the last half a gig ran at a reduced rate. And it was because of the memory bus width on the card and functionally it made very i honestly i felt that they should have disclosed it for one thing because they knew but i felt that that one was a bit of a nothing burger in terms of performance because

the reality of it was that the 970 was not such a performant card that you were going to reach the very limits of how much uh data you needed to put in its vram without running into other bottlenecks on that card like it was stupid but i hear you stupid yeah it was bad yeah but um i yeah apparently it was all 970s not a version oh sorry sorry yeah 970 with my memories sorry yeah yeah yeah so the 970 compared to the 980 which was uh which was full die or which was a wider memory bus or whatever uh had that like issue or something like that yeah so they they knew they knew and it was bad but it also didn't really affect performance except in some very, very weird edge cases.

Yeah. So, are they, okay, we are discussion topics. Yeah, okay, we've managed to make our way through the discussion topics without actually reading them, so that's pretty cool. Why don't we jump right into our next topic here, one that you really want to talk about,

even though I don't see how this is a main topic okay there's too much ai okay is the header for this topic and this is this this was spawned from luke having a little spat with google as i do over the updated version of the float plane app for android yeah yeah you managed to fight with apple and google almost equally all the time yeah it used to fight with Apple and Google almost equally, I think. All the time, yeah. It used to just be Apple, and now Google's trying to catch up. They're unhappy that I'm not in conflict with them as much as I am.

Well, I am now. They were unhappy that I was not in conflict with them as much as Apple. Actually, right now, I'm beefing with Google more than Apple. So the problem, we tried to push a bug fix for the Android app for floatplane. And the bug fix helped with Chromecast, whatever. The conclusion of the story is that you

should be receiving that soon if you don't have it already. It was approved at 8am this morning, so it's still propagating a little bit. But I believe you could go manually get it if it hasn't updated for you at this time. But they didn't let us do it for a long time because they kept on rejecting our privacy policy by saying that it wasn't there. We've had the same link to our privacy policy. Should I open it? I mean, you can if you want. We've had the same link to our privacy policy in the App Store thing.

This is it. This is the privacy policy in the uh app store thing this is it this is the privacy policy we've had the same link to it since we had an app um it's never changed yep it's been the same thing it's been in the same spot like it just it's just how it's been they said we didn't have one um so i noticed that we had yeah there's a lot there's a lot of that word um so i noticed that we had, yeah, there's a lot, there's a lot of that word. Um, so I noticed that like, oh, okay. We actually had a redirect in place. Sure. Because we, we moved it at one point, but we redirected it. So if anyone had the old link, it would still work.

So I was like, okay, I'll, I'll make it so that it has the, the technically new link so that there isn't a redirect. Maybe something on their side is unhappy with the redirect. And I appealed and I was like, the policy has always been here. Oh no side is unhappy with the redirect. And I appealed. And I was like, the policy has always been here. Oh, no. Okay. The first move was that I appealed immediately and was just like, hello?

Yeah. Like, I detailed a bunch of stuff. I was like, this link has never changed. This is exactly how it is. I have checked it myself on multiple computers from multiple locations it works it's there maybe there was a temporary outage that somehow we didn't know about i you know not not putting all blame on the other side maybe there's some on us could have been a misunderstanding yeah exactly you know i'm here to play ball but like i'm pretty sure it's in your

court um and then they immediately spat back and we were like nope not there okay so i removed the redirect so i just want to clarify the thing that's not there is this yes this is not there yep that's it i'm just checking and it looked like that the whole time yeah so like this yep so sorry i just want to clarify you might want to highlight it yes that's yes yep that one okay just checking uh so yeah remove the redirect resubmitted spat back out no dice not there okay sounds good one of the members on the team uh had a had a very good idea a brainstorm that maybe it's because no one's actually reading it maybe it's because it's an ai that's trying to scrape the page and maybe we're doing something that could be a little weird that could interfere with that we tried a bunch of screen readers and

other type of things to see if there was any problems wasn't really any problem but the idea came up to do to do no background loading yeah which is something that we we do on a lot of pages on the website explain why uh because loading those elements will make it so that when you go to that page, it loads faster. Yeah. It's a good idea to do. So we're loading other pages other than what you're looking at. Yeah.

So that just in case you click them, it'll be super responsive. The app loads in the background, essentially. So we don't do any background loading. And it's technically just like, it's just text. It's just the most basic thing we could possibly do. And then we send it back in and they're like, it's just text. It's just the most basic thing we could possibly do. And then we send it back in and they're like, great, because no one ever looked at it. No person saw that despite the appeals, despite whatever.

I pretty much guarantee you, considering nothing has ever actually changed with the content on the page. And it looks identical that no one ever actually saw. You know what's really mind blowing to me about this? i mean other than that this is mind-blowing yeah when when i went to creator summit youtube made like a really big show of how appeals to things like content strikes are 100 manually reviewed yeah not this one and i'm looking at it going okay so you can afford to manually review an entire whole video but just clicking a page you know hey would have been seconds yes there is a

privacy policy no no the the revenue the 30 cut the 30 revenue cut you claim you need to run the play store is not enough to hire a handful okay probably a significant number of people but but to hire a team of people to click through and go yeah that appears to actually be there the ai might have got it wrong hey we should probably flag this and make our ai even better which you know might be a mission at google to improve their ai's performance really and you could you could have an ai go through and check off what i'm going to assume is 80 to 90 or even higher percentage of cases and when it rejects stuff just have a human just skim it you don't even just have to see the link even just reject it sure but when it gets appealed yeah maybe somebody should look at it and the text is like hey it's literally been

there for years you've been okay with it for years it hasn't changed maybe you didn't notice it hasn't changed but it hasn't changed maybe you should look again they didn't they didn't look yeah very frustrating. But then the other side of it in brackets or not enough is the same thing. Because wow, what a hunk of junk. Yeah. So on the one hand, yeah, there's too much AI. But on the other hand, not enough. How could this thing possibly not know that there's a privacy policy on this page? Literally, the page does not look different now no it's only like background loading stuff that the team changed and how it's formatted this is what it looked like it's just text this isn't an image or anything

they don't have to like parse an image and machine learning you can still read it with a screen reader before that was one of the ways absolutely uh it has the word privacy all over it and i mean without implicating ourselves too much i think that we borrowed a lot of it from other privacy policies. I mean, if someone else's lawyer said it's okay, it's probably okay. So did ours. So did ours. We actually did have a lawyer look at it. Yes. But it's one of those things where it's like a lot of this verbiage, it's probably identical to other privacy policies on the internet

because, as far as I can tell, I actually have had to read a handful of them. There's a lot of just like, this wording seems to work. Why would we reinvent this wheel? Yeah. So they probably see

a lot of redundancy in these kinds of documents. It can't be just us. So how could they possibly, possibly not compare it to something else? I mean, this is kind of like what we were talking about last week, where I will say, like, you know, call Jake into my phone, and it'll be like, sorry, which one? And you're like, Tyvee. And it's like, sorry, I can't find Jake Tyvee and it's like sorry i can't find jake tyvee i'm like okay

call jake tv calling jake tivy it's like no well if it's so close to get on the one hand you're one of the leading companies in the world for ai and on the other hand you're like yeah it's just it's very it's very frustrating and the amount of time that this stopped a bug fix from it the thing that frustrates me the most is it seems like we get hit every time when it's a bug fix let the bug fix go through yeah if i'm launching a new feature okay you know more scrutiny fine at least the feature gets delayed whatever whatever. But it's a bug fix. Let the people have the bug fix. My goodness.

So frustrating. But yeah, that's it. Do you want to talk about your hype topic now? The Microsoft Surface event? No. I want to talk about one of the topics that I asked to be in the show and isn't here. Oh, okay. I want to talk about Netflix launching...

Oh, the ad-supported tier. ...a cheaper basic... You basic, son. Ooh. ...a cheaper basic subscription with advertising in November. I wonder what they're going to do about ad blocks. Everything you need to know

courtesy of the Daily Record. So you'll have to forgive me. The original source is in British pounds. That's another currency. thing you need to know courtesy of the daily record so you'll have to forgive me the original source is in uh british pounds uh that's another currency that's much weaker than yours my american friends i think it's 5.99 us and 6.99 canadian or something and 4.99 pounds wait that doesn't make any sense isn't the pound like super weak now i don't anyway who knows the point is that it will offer all the same features of a standard subscription which is going to stay at 11 pounds sterling uh but there will be a few

differences which is to say that it will not offer all the same features for one thing it will not offer an ad free viewing experience greg peters chief operating and product officer of netflix said basic with adverts that's british for advertisements is everything people love about netflix at a lower price with a few adverts in between what's a few i mean if you ask google maybe 10 okay yeah that was an that was an experiment that was generally i generally see a few as three but i i my understanding is that it's like three or more right i'd say i'd say if they have i'd say it'll probably be a few that that would be that would be my guess they use the word a few so it'll probably be like three pound is still stronger than usd okay a decent amount

actually uh basic with adverts he went on to say also represents an exciting opportunity for advertisers yeah almost nothing good starts with represents an exciting opportunity for advertisers i literally yeah i don't think i've ever been able to attach that to a positive statement. The chance to reach a diverse audience, including younger viewers who increasingly don't watch linear TV in a premium environment with seamless high resolution adverts. Or have any money to buy anything. Well, subscribers of the new plan will also be able to enjoy a wide variety of great TV series

and films on a range of TV and mobile devices. But this is another difference between normal standard Netflix and new Netflix. Basic is that actually some programs will not be available due to licensing restrictions. If I had to guess, I would say that some of the agreements that they've signed over the years probably specifically licensed for a non-ad supported platform and now that they are not one for these particular viewers uh that may no longer be a valid licensing agreement someone in philippine chat said it's 45 minutes per one hour per one hour between 15 to 30 seconds in length 45 minutes per hour. Better than this hour has 22 minutes.

Is it going to... Hold on a second. Is it going to pop up in, like, the middle of a movie? Does anyone know? I doubt it. Because this isn't launched yet, is it? No, I don't think... No, it because it's not it's not this isn't launched yet is it no i don't think no no it's not i believe you can get it starting in uh november okay

november 3rd it looks like they really interrupt a movie i mean realistically youtube interrupts the middle of a long video but with youtube it's i don't i feel like i have a different expectation a movie that's a really different when I sit down to watch a movie I'm kind of a freak about it I will sit there if I'm having trouble

with my Plex server or the projector is not connected to the thing because the kids were fooling around with it or something I will sit there while my ice cream melts while my popcorn gets cold and i will not take a bite of either of them until the movie has started like my movie snacks are for movie time that's it i already all this is actually a thing i already knew all of that and he feels just that strongly about it and always will so any part of that was surprising there's like for me there's something a little sacred yeah about the about which is cool the movie watching experience

and now I don't really watch the Marvel films but I know this clip that's gonna be like watching with my wife Iron Man sitting there with his glove thing with the gems and i am iron this ad brought to you exactly right so good and you gotta you gotta wait i guess that'll be a disney plus only thing but well whatever you gotta imagine that they're gonna use like machine learning to figure out the optimal cliffhangers to put ads on so that your retention won't be affected by it. Yeah, I was interpreting that the other way, but you're totally right. No, no, no, it's going to be the evil version.

Yeah, definitely. It's 100% going to be the evil version. People are asking, what about Adblocker? I suspect it's going to be pretty difficult because Netflix is such an in-app experience on so many devices. Like there may be ways to block it, but like, okay, even something like Piehole, to my knowledge, doesn't actually manage to block YouTube ads on something like a smart TV.

I think Netflix also has people always, I don't know why people don't really think about this, but every time I bring it up, people freak out at me and then figure it out later on but they don't actually have that much content what i mean is compared to like a youtube or something right so they could bake in the ads if they really wanted that's actually something we talked about as a drm strategy for floatplane back in the early days when we weren't really sure how to do it was if we were if we were going to have some kind of sponsor message yeah if we were going to have some kind of ad supported version of it how were we going to make sure that we were actually serving these bloody ads um and and yeah actually re-encoding the video with it in the video and then you'd

have to have some kind of modification to the player so that skipping is not allowed during that section or once it's activated or something like that. Ultimately, we decided against an ad-supported tier just because it's impossible to make money on it. And you'd need business people to start selling the ads. Or you're joining some program and then you're going to get worse rates.

Horrible, horrible, horrible ads. And I don't like ads anyways yeah that's that's fair so we're we're float playing premium only uh but anyway i think the main discussion question for me and okay i want you to answer this honestly will you downgrade no because i don't have it anyways so i would have to upgrade to it you've had netflix so put yourself back in that headspace will you downgrade knowing that the person it's gonna affect is emma you want to know something funny i don't have it right now, right? Yeah. I told her yesterday that this was a thing. Because I was like, hey.

You wanted to get it yourself. It's cheaper. But she's actually been doing really good. She hasn't watched any TV at all in a long time. Okay. We're both working on self-improvement kicks. Wow. Good stuff. I mean, you can tell he's actually like like smaller i still have a long way to go but i am significantly smaller yeah

like you don't even look like that much like bigger than me like there was a while where he was kind of big i was i was a big boy um yeah how are you doing so far if you don't mind still 35 down 35 yeah 35 down it's a decent amount i don't actually know when i started okay so 35 down from some arbitrary it was at some point during this year it wasn't at the beginning of this year it was some i think it was probably like two to three months into this year i I know when I started my like walks, the ground was frosty at night. Okay. So it was around then.

Yeah. So sometime in like the early spring or like late winter kind of thing. Yeah. Okay. Since then I'm 35 down and I've been working out at the same time and gaining muscle mass. So I'm 35 down, which is cool, but I'm also not like,

that's not my main thing that I'm going for. Yeah, for sure. I mean, it's going to happen cause I was too high up, but it's not the my main thing that i'm going for yeah for sure i mean going to happen because i was too high up but it's not the like main metric that i mean yeah weight loss is not something that i focus on at like i don't i don't focus on my weight at all because according to according to there's a lot of people that have pressed x to doubt that i weigh 170 pounds

I weigh 170 pounds. I really, really do. Butt naked on the scale, I'm like 169.8 or something like that. Because if you just go by like BMI, be my calculator for men, I'm like obese. Yeah.

Which is definitely not right. At my fittest state that I ever was, mine was like really bad. I don't remember what it was but it was like you're like dying and i was like no i'm doing great um yeah my bmi is 27 which is like well into overweight uh territory yeah it's like this is why bmi is such a useless absolutely useless measure 36 pounds or kilograms yeah i know that's that's pounds yeah that's pounds the 36 kilograms the poor thing would be like yeah um yeah so i don't know that's neat um actual again because i'm i'm trying to put on muscle at the same time actual fat loss would be like way more than that

but yeah hey we should do a couple of merch messages uh we'll do the rest of them towards the end of the show uh guys just a reminder instead of super chats instead of twitch bits or anything like that the a plus uh top tier smart smart boy smart lady move is to send a merch message if you uh check out on ltdstore.com where there's going to be a little field there where whenever we're live, you can send a merch message. It pops up showing what you scored in the bottom there. And if you have like a question or something, then our producer Dan, what's up producer Dan, is going to have a look at it.

And if it's a good one, he'll curate it. If it's not, he might reply to it or just kind of pop it up there. You can also just like shout out people like, hi mom or you know, whatever else. And it'll scroll by on the little bar down at the bottom. And if we, for whatever reason, don't get to your message, hey, at least you get your order in the mail. We've actually got a couple of special things to announce for the store.

First up, we've got some new colors for the beanie. Oh yeah, I guess this is a good time to switch out my hat. We've got three new colors. Purple, navy, and olive. Ooh. I'm going to go with purple. I've already worn all these. I'm pretty sure I don't have lice.

You are more than welcome to have one, but you also don't have to put one on because you're probably warm. Yeah, I am. Yeah, I know. He's a warm boy. He's a warm boy,'s a warm boy ladies and gentlemen it's true um so yeah we've got uh we've got our new colors which is pretty sweet and we've also got a deal if you buy a 21 or 40 ounce water bottle and a lanyard you can get a free dad hat

just add the bottle lanyard and hat to your cart and the deal applies automatically. I think this might be the first time we launched a seasonal item, like on time. In the season, yeah. Like during the actual season where it makes sense to wear it. Yep. Neat, right? Oh, also.

The new beanies, our new stock of beanies comes in these new paper. They're just like a wax paper. Yeah, sorry. Like a wax paper recyclable packaging. So if you get an old one, it's still in the old plastic but the new ones will all come in the newer packaging we're just trying to get

completely away from plastic and foam in all of our packaging yeah that's awesome oh uh for those of you who want to uh updates on the backpack i should probably update you there's been some confusion people are like okay the page says that you guys are, there's port delays. Last week on WAN show, you're like, hey, the carabiners are all broken or they're recalled or whatever you want to say. But then Nick's tweeting on Twitter that you're shipping out 15,000 backpacks next week. So what gives? Okay, okay, okay, okay. All of those things are true.

Yeah, option D. Yeah, there have been port delays. Okay. Okay, okay, okay. All of those things are true. Yeah, option D. Yeah, there have been port delays, okay? The carabiner is a problem, but we are going to fix it post-delivery. So that way you'll get to just use it because it's perfectly usable. It's just that the carabiner's zipper pulls

are not as durable as we'd like. We are working on a solution. You will get a solution in the mail, but you will get that after you get your backpack. So all of those things are true and we have tons and tons of containers landing. I think we have about 10 containers landing and we're going to be shipping those out

as quickly as we can. You guys are probably seeing things on Twitter. You're seeing probably new reviews. People are actually getting screwdrivers and backpacks now. It's not all fake, which is amazing. Yes, it is a toque game grime, but I'm trying to speak to my

American friends. Toque, toque. Alright, I think that's pretty much it. I saw someone asking about, oh, Black Shaft screwdrivers. Yeah, those are going to start shipping probably about the end of the month if everything goes according to plan. Alright. There's the deal. Did you go over the deal for the store i did okay why don't

we do a couple merch messages dan hit me okay sure i got one here from marxie fan noctua is releasing a thermal pace guard for ryzen 7000 did you have problems with getting paced in the notches p.s watched luke's mom episode of the wan show again today and it was hysterics there's a there's a few of those i think yeah there's a handful of those uh yes getting paste in the notches is a bit of a pain in the butt and uh as far as i can tell we actually got a couple of noctua's paste guards uh in the lab and it works as advertised it keeps paste out of the notches to be clear the paste in the notches it's not it's not going to affect performance or anything it's just gross and hard to clean so um yes it works oh dan's echoing fortunately dan happens to be the one who sets up the audio for wan show so if you want to complain about it

you can complain to him directly got his dan cam on here i wasn't listening to you i was listening to the output um you were listening to me just fine. I gotta hear this. Hold on. Why am I echoing? Should I read? Should Domini read? I can read. Okay. Hey, Linus, I think we get this question fairly often, but I'm a long

time fan since the NCX days and a new dad. Do you have any tech tips with regard for raising babies slash toddlers? Oh, man. No general tips. Only tech tips. Only tech tips. Only tech tips.

I don't know. I mean. This is not a quick bit. You don't need a crazy fancy baby monitor. There. That's a tech tip. We had just like a cheap audio only just basic baby monitor and it was it was all we needed it feels like they're trying to sell you like these super

advanced it's got the video it's don't get ones that connect to the internet yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah uh well okay that goes both ways right because if you've got the super basic kind that is like not internet is just like completely unencrypted um rf then that has its own problems with that but at least the creepy person that comes through on your baby monitor will be someone close so you can like you know grab a baseball bat and go find them if you're into that sort of thing nice yeah so don't get don't get suckered into overspending on Crap that they're only going to use for like 12 months tops

I support this message They're not going to remember any of it Like for real though All they have to do is Survive the first 5 years of their life They will not remember Literally any of it Isn't there a bunch of like formative things

i don't know anything you have to love them and you know talk at them and stuff yes there's a lot of language about but i mean like tech yeah like yeah you know they're not gonna be like you didn't splurge for the video one you didn't buy me nice enough you didn't buy me designer pants you know like it's just it's ridiculous every time didn't you get me the baby yeezys every time i see a child wearing designer clothes i die a little bit inside like i don't know much about brands and clothes but those appear to be like $150, $200 pants. Are you an idiot? Like, I'm not.

Sorry, no hot takes, no hot takes. Bad lines, bad lines. Apparently there are baby Yeezys, though. Are they for children or women? Wait, what do you mean? Like sugar babies. I don't know. It's a bad joke Here these are for you baby

For a child They look like they're child easies Child easies wonderful Can I go over to your screen I don't know if I'm there yet I don't know what I'm looking at You have nothing incriminating though right No here we go.

Here we go. $350 infant shoes. Whoa. There are a bunch that are sold out. I don't care how much stock they had. That shouldn't be a thing. Those don't even look good. Like, these are just black shoes, and they're $225.

That's a sandal. Okay. It's literally just a sandal. I mean... This one actually protects your foot less. To be clear, I'm not saying you should buy the cheapest possible shoes for your kids. Actually, like, proper support matters, especially when their bone structure is not set yet that makes sense but you don't need to spend that much that's for sure oh man i know that's tough that's pretty that's pretty tough all right especially because like like the

infant shoes they wear them for such a short period of time that's another thing you're better off buying more pairs of shoes that fit them properly especially if you're going to have more than one kid because then you're going to get another kid cycle out of them anyway so it doesn't really matter that you bought a lot of them um and that's another thing too is like fast fashion and and disposable clothing is a huge problem but when it comes to like like kids clothes it's way less of a problem because kids wear out their clothes like nobody's business. And they're the kind of thing that there actually are poor people who actually do need it. Right. Like there are families in need when it comes to quality children's clothes that actually

lasts. So, you know, yeah, like buying, buying garbage that's disposable still sucks, but compared to adult clothes where you're going to wear them just like a couple of times and then literally nobody else will ever want them again ever uh kids clothes totally different like if you buy too many pairs of kids shoes there will be a kid in need who needs those shoes like don't don't worry as much about it it's more important to have shoes that actually fit i remember that being a thing with like cleats and like different like sports shoes for sure is like that you'd go to uh like sports replay or whatever yeah i'm super into sports replay this is awesome it was sick yeah yeah

yeah they're still open that's cool i actually didn't know yeah yeah i went there recently i picked up some stuff for my son like some i needed like ski poles and i'm sitting here going what i'm gonna buy brand new like metal rods stick of metal what if what if i'm an idiot oh the fancy ones are hollow we use ones for hollow we've had hollow rod technology for decades you mean it's not made out of wood um but uh but yeah i remember things like cleats would be in relative short supply especially when a new season would start or whatever. So yeah, that's all good as well.

I guess too, like this isn't things I would think about, but the tops of shoes probably take a lot more damage on an infant because of crawling and stuff, right? Oh, 100%. So yeah, they're going to thrash through that stuff. Oh, for sure. RY over on Twitch chat says, Yeah, but they're reinforced slash built with more quality.

Yeah, that's a degenerate Twitch thing to say. Do you know how much a child weighs? How reinforced does a metal rod need to be? I'm just teasing. I'm just teasing. I think you were probably trolling. Apparently orphanages are like overrun with baby jordans uh this is something that i have not actually looked into but that sounds hilarious

why did luke not know it was still open does he not buy things no i don't i still have my same pair of cleats from when I was in grade 11. They still fit. There's actually something I own from almost that far back. Remember a couple seasons ago, we went snowboarding. The pants I was wearing, the snowboard pants I was wearing, I got when I was 19.

Nice. There you go. And the jacket was not far behind. I have owned both of those. Do you remember what I was using for a jacket? No. I've been on this kick for a bit. It's a windbreaker with a sweater under it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's fine. That's fine. That's a good hack. That's a good hack. I think that's actually pretty smart. That's a legit hack. I don't mind buying a pair of snowboard pants, though, just because they've got the waterproof seat.

And you end up you know especially when you're snowboarding with kids or a wife my wife my wife my wife you end up sitting and waiting a lot so you can you kind of need the waterproof but yeah snowboard pants are legit all right want to give us one more

merch message before we move on sure thing yeah I'm going to try some ASMR I think we're getting some slapback here. This is from Alex. Linus, have your opinions on electric motorcycles changed? A few years ago on the WAN show, you were lukewarm on them. I got a Zero recently

as a cheap way into the EV space and have loved it. Curious on your thoughts. A Zero? Yeah, Zero's a brand of electric motorcycle. I haven't touched one since the last time i talked about it so no i can't say that my feelings on them have changed i i just i got on it and i was like this thing has no soul i no longer wish to be on it and uh my one of my questions for you would be well did well, did you ever ride a gas-powered motorcycle?

Because it's the, like, I'm not even a petrolhead, right? Like, I'm not a car guy. But there's something about the gear change, right? Like, it's not about just the zero to 60, right? It's not about what speed you're getting to. It's about the push. It's the journey. It's that push when you, like, kick into a new gear. Like, it's about the the push the journey it's that it's that push when you like

kick into a new gear like it's exciting it's thrilling and i just don't feel it on the on the ev i went for a test drive and just i had the money on hand i was ready to buy it and i walked out with uh with a like a service deal for my gas powered motorbike that i've continued to ride since then i actually am super excited no yeah it's called torque no i know it's called torque but it's the rhythm of it it's not just the torque an ev bike has lots of torque you could you could kind of replicate that experience by going on to the throttle and then off and then on to it again that's it's not the same thing. It's not alive, right? Like it's different.

And so what I actually spent my electric bike money on is just completely giving the gas-powered bike a once-over. And I also treated myself to something really stupid. For a combination of furniture painting and painting my bike i actually picked up a furniture paint sprayer oh but not just like like i we already own a paint sprayer like here at the office for like spraying the side of a building like we have like that kind but like a fine paint sprayer like so you can get like a really nice finish nice Nice. And I am going to do up my bike this off season in Lambo Pink. Yes.

I like was pretty sure it was coming, but not a hundred percent sure. That's fantastic. That's awesome. Yeah. I'm really excited. I'm going to do my helmet too. I bought like a boring gray helmet and I'm going to do the, like the green stripes. The green stripes.

Yeah. I'm so excited. Nice. I, uh, I think if you lived somewhere where you could bike more often and it was like you you biked to work actually every day and stuff like that it could maybe make more sense for electric bike because then it's being done for economical reasons yes but when it's a entertaining thing that you can do for a relatively short window of time yeah due to living in a rainforest well it's not even just

that like almost anytime i go anywhere i have a passenger even commuting to work i work with my wife right like we're coming from the same place going to the same place and she does not like riding on the back of the bike so that's not really an option so i almost never get to ride it anyway so if i'm only gonna ride it for fun then it's gonna have to be fun yeah which totally makes sense to me we should probably jump into another tech topic then maybe do some sponsors you know that sort of thing yeah what do you want to talk about do you want to talk about uh consoles yeah let's talk about consoles are console exclusives fair or no sony is beefing with microsoft over the activision blizzard. That is a lot of big games.

And there's some quotes that I'm going to reference that a lot of big games thing to compare with in a moment. Microsoft is touting benefits for gamers, indie developers, and industry professionals. How? Who knows? Microsoft also plans to bring Call of Duty and other Activision Blizzard games to Game Pass. The discussion centers around Call of Duty because of the series' continued financial success and yearly release schedule, which corporate people just love. They did it to Assassin's Creed 2 and they ruined the whole series. It was awesome. Sony complains to the...

He was talking about this on the pre-show, okay? The wound's a little raw right now sony complained to the competition and markets authority in the uk sony believes that some call of duty players are likely to switch to xbox due to in-game differences that could emerge between the playstation and xbox versions of what is supposed to be the same game there There's also other issues. Phil Spencer, the head of Xbox, has said that they are committed to bringing Call of Duty to PlayStation

for several more years. Apparently, behind the scenes, that has been communicated as exactly three years to PlayStation, which they say is inadequate on many levels and fails to take into account the impact on our gamers also known as customers also known as sources of money as us yeah sources of money i like that yeah that's good thanks philip our source of money hey not much money it's a mystery

water bottle that's the discounted water bottle you can get mystery t-shirts mystery water bottles and mystery cable ties if you don't care what color and style and it's a good way to save a few bucks the some of the counter arguments is that playstation currently has a larger share of the console gaming market than xbox but the cma uh or the competition market authority considers that call of duty is sufficiently important that losing access to it or losing access on competitive terms the differences between platforms thing yeah could significantly impact sony's revenues and user base abso-freaking-lutely yeah there's a quote from uh microsoft chairman and ceo satay nadela who

responded by saying the number one player in gaming in this case sony um wait hold on the number one player in this case sony i think in this period oh i think in this period has acquired three companies so this is about competition let us have competition i don't think that's fair i think that's ridiculous my reason for that is activision blizzard is huge yeah acquiring activision blizzard is not necessarily comparable to the acquisitions that sony was yes um pulling off and it's not like you haven't made other acquisitions as well microsoft i think that is an extremely misleading quote and speaking of misleading things that are trying to sway people they also made a website about specifically just this um a pro merger website are you kidding me news.microsoft.com slash activision-blizzard-acquisition our vision for gaming more

choice and more games for people everywhere except that's definitely not true benefits of activision plus or sorry xbox plus activision blizzard benefits for players benefits for game creators more ways to get games in front of more players through support investment and better access to gamers what um it's satya not satay my bad sorry satya nadella right after i said it i was like I'm pretty sure I screwed that up. Greater competition in traditional gaming where Sony and Nintendo remain the biggest. So that's their argument,

that they are not being anti-competitive, that they are not a traditional gaming company. They've been trying to fight this argument since Xbox series. Yeah, when did the first xbox launch i mean how long do you have to have been in this space to be traditional yeah xbox launch first no i think the argument there is that their console is not like it's not we're not a normal console 2001 media station stuff and whatnot they've been in the market over 20 years. You can't just be like, oh yeah, we're like,

you know, we're just the not traditional gaming company. Okay, someone in full-page chat said three years on top of an already in-place contract. So that's six to seven years in total. All it is is kicking the can down the road. Whereas understandably, Sony wants to keep the can. They, they,

they, they want to make sure that their platform is going to have support, um, for call of duty, like indefinitely, right. Uh, given what a cash cow it is,

I can totally understand why they would want to do that. With that said, I don't think Sony has, um, been, I don't think Sony has been, I don't think Sony's hands are particularly clean when it comes to delivering an even gaming experience on alternate platforms for their first party titles. You know that picture of the Spider-Men

pointing at each other? That's this situation. Yeah, so, you know, I think that on the one hand, I look at it and I go, is Microsoft's behavior anti-competitive? Absolutely. Is this website a giant load of horse sh**? Absolutely.

Is Sony's behavior equally anti-competitive, if not more so? Abso-freaking-lutely. And is Nintendo worse than either of them? Yes. It's an extremely toxic space. Gamers, gamers, why are you toxic? From top to bottom.

Yeah, from the corporate side to the individuals, it's just kind of bad. Can't we all just get along? One thing that really surprises me about the Microsoft plan to acquire Activision Blizzard is that blizzard and act whatever activision blizzard is such a gross company there i'm surprised this isn't in here but there's another lawsuit on blizzard another one for the same stuff like is it fresh

or is it from the same era sure which to be, I am not bringing up because it excuses it in any way. I am bringing up because what I want to know is have there been any reforms recently under Microsoft? It is equally abhorrent whether it happened a year ago, 10 years ago,

or 100 years ago. One day ago, Activision Blizzard is once again being sued for sexual harassment. This isn't in the doc. I don't have a lot of immediate notes on this. I just saw it come up again. this is my level of impressed right now but yeah it's it's happening

again and i'm actually really so abk yeah but not everyone knows what abk means i know what abk means but i don't know what abk means activision blizzard king someone's this is my this is my point not everyone knows what abk means um so activision blizzard and king if you care about candy crush yeah oh yeah who cares yeah exactly yeah activision blizzard bought them they bought them out like it's not like it was a merger of equals yeah um i don't know i'm just surprised that microsoft wants to touch this because it's so gross well Well, they own it now. Do they actually already?

Activision Blizzard? I thought so. I know it was like agreed on, but I don't think it's actually gone through. Yeah, you're right. You're right. Yeah, it hasn't entirely gone through. Maybe they think they can clean house. I don't know.

I hope they clean house really intensely when they do it because this is is crazy um apparently it was from the past hr did fire that person but only after years of complaints okay okay well i mean at least there's not new stuff happening as far as we know i mean yeah i wouldn't be surprised if there is i mean if it takes years of complaints for anything to come of it then maybe we just don't know yet there was 700 reported incidents of um rampant sexism harassment and discrimination under ceo uh bobby kottick yeah your favorite person oh yeah he's a big fan just a wonderful human being yeah he's a big fan of bobby kottick that was a big slash s can we just can i just clarify for y'all but yeah i it's this honestly ever since the beginning i've been really surprised that microsoft was was doing this

just because of the major yeah and bobby's still there yeah he's such a resilient little nope i'll i'll stay it but he's very resilient that's what i'll say he'd probably survive a nuclear blast um so you're saying he's a cockroach yeah there we go i just somehow he's able to dodge all of these bullets that was just a way for you to call him a cockroach wasn't it yep okay i see what you did there yeah um but yeah i don't i don't understand how like very clearly he's been a part of these things but everyone's just like it's fine he could stay we'll just fire everyone else after the merger he still stays ceo of actors somehow stays around stays around. And I feel like it shouldn't be a surprise

that while all this crazy stuff is going on, it came out that he was having meetings with Microsoft to sell everything, but then he wants to still stay around because he's like, well, I'll just have someone else take these shots. I have no idea how he's able to stay around.

Get rid of him. Get rid of him. Get rid of him. And get rid of us not talking about our sponsors yet. Yeah. Thanks to FreshBooks for sponsoring today's show. Now I'm going to go ahead and guess that you're not an accountant, which is why you're going to love FreshBooks software. It's built for freelancers and small business owners

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Guess who's going to be joining us on the WAN show very shortly? I have no idea idea The one and only Colton Potter Can you guys hear him alright? I hope you can hear him alright He'll pick up I think he's driving

Drives a long way to work Lives in the middle of nowhere for some reason He does Seriously? Clearly I'm being blocked. Ignore. Sorry, Mr. Cole. You're not sorry. You're not sorry even a little.

Yeah. This guy. Alright, well, we'll try him again later. I was hoping, speaking of LTX, that we could announce dates. Oh, yeah. We do know them. I don't really know. I don't understand why we can't if the venue is booked. I don't know. I'm not

in charge of these things. What do I know about any of this? I just work here. Yeah. So I'm hoping that we can announce them. I'll try them on Teams. Maybe he's at his computer and he doesn't have his phone or something. So while that's ringing... Oh, that's really loud. Sorry. Why don't we

start something else uh we did consoles quest pro yeah hey if i'm an investor right okay i'm uh i'm a wall street fat cat or whatever else okay i'm looking at what mr zuckerberg over there is doing with meta and this giant giant money furnace that he's running over there with the metaverse and i am sitting here going what the f are you smoking son because for him to come out and say that he wants a vr ar headset to be as essential as a cell phone has become like on the one hand yeah i can i can see it i can see i can envision that future i could write a sci-fi you know skit skit you know I could write some short story, okay, about that future. And it would be sick.

It would be so cool. The problem, though, is that just like with the rest of the technology industry, Moore's Law ain't gonna get us there because of the way that Moore's Law is slowing down. Any line that we draw to extrapolate where we're going to reach this supposed future, where our AR glasses that can either fully block out the light or they can augment our reality with superimposed menus over restaurants or names and the names of their kids at parties of people that we don't see that often.

The future where those actually look like a freaking regular pair of glasses is so far out that I don't know if my kids will live to see it, that I don't know if my kids will live to see it, let alone, you know, me and Mark, who I think we're the same age. How old's Mark Zuckerberg? No idea. Ready Player One already exists? No.

Unless you're literally trying to be super literal and you're talking about like the book and the movie. Yeah, yeah, that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about something that could actually go mainstream. Yeah. That's not... i'm talking about i'm talking about something that could actually go mainstream yeah that's not he's talking about the like the headsets and the the the technical level of the the headsets not not yeah yeah not the not the concept yeah the concept is there i mean the you know the the metaverse okay it's a thing. The problem is that we're sitting here going, okay, they just announced the MetaQuest Pro, which is a $1,500 VR headset. With one to two hours of battery life.

Okay, hold on. We'll get to that. We'll get to that. Sorry. New processor, new screen, dramatically redesigned body and controllers, inward-facing cameras for the eye and face tracking that it can do, and a color video feed for mixed reality apps.

Okay. The Quest Pro is going to sit alongside the $399 Quest 2, which Meta will continue selling as well. But where the Quest 2 is mostly focused on fitness, games, and entertainment, the Quest Pro is aimed at businesses and professionals who can afford its higher price tag. And there are applications for VR in a professional setting. For sure.

Like, for example, allowing a client to walk through an architectural design or allowing a shopper in a virtual showroom to see what that couch might look like in their living room. There's totally valid use cases for it. The problem is that those are all business use cases that are temporary. They're only needed while you are shopping for that item or working on that project. They are not something that you actually need to carry around with you day to day and this device is not even close not even close to something that you would want to wear for long periods of time it's way better better but it's still big yeah it's still heavy it still has like a forehead plate i think for that'll be a big indicator when we don't necessitate forehead plates anymore

yeah when i can drive down the road wearing it that's when it can go mainstream and we are just like like we're so far away i mean i remember when the first vr headsets were coming out what like seven eight years ago was really when like dk1 started landing in the hands of consumers sounds about right yeah maybe a little bit longer than that yeah i remember then us going like yeah but with with the state of the advancement of this technology we're gonna see the pixel density go like and we're gonna see the processing power go and it's gonna be it's gonna be amazing it's gonna be that didn't happen to be fair it also it also went in a direction that i think neither you nor i suspected um where they moved the

processing power to the device yes um and that still feels like the wrong way to me it's i don't work in the space okay i'm probably wrong for a bunch of reasons but it's the right way for now what we're gonna need is they're going to they're never okay well i shouldn't say never never say never they could be standalone devices but i think realistically we're gonna go from relying on a connected device at where we started was a computer to being standalone with a computer built into the headset to relying on a connected device but this time a wireless link to a computer in your pocket yeah and then back to being a standalone device if we manage to get there and that'll be like way future that is probably going to happen over a span of decades. And this is not just based on nothing, right? Like, I think we saw the early VR headsets, and we assumed a similar development path, like a similar trajectory of miniaturization and increases in performance that drove the personal computer to just unbelievable heights throughout the 90s and the early 2000s right but we didn't get that we got

moore's law already slowing down and development actually being pretty slow i mean we've only seen what since the original rift actually launched maybe two actual generations of VR headsets where we look at it and go, yeah, that's a lot better than the previous one. And I don't think that the experience has, aside from better resolution in the screen, and to be in fairness, like Facebook has done some pretty incredible stuff with the limited processing power

that they have in these standalone devices. Other than better pixel density and higher FPS and not by as much as I might have thought, I don't think the experience has fundamentally really changed that much. And like, I actually finally got a chance to play around with the HoloLens. It sucks. It's like, laggy and the field of view sucks. The field of view sucks. The field of view is horrid.

And when did they first announce HoloLens? Like, goodness gracious. Wasn't that back in the Google Glass days? That would have been like also like seven years ago. Yeah. I think it's about seven years ago. I think DK1 is more than that. Well, I mean, when it actually started landing in people's hands.

Because we did that collab with Lou, right? From Unbox Therapy. And that was an old house. We've been in this building for seven years. So, and then we were, Oh, maybe eight.

I think we've been here almost eight years, Luke. It's like nine. No, no, because the company is going to turn 10. Yeah. And we were in the house for six months. Then we were in the other,

more different house for about a year and a half. Okay we've been here about eight years i think okay uh january 2015 man i nailed it good linus um so yeah seven years and change was when they first announced hololens and it's still like it was useful i saw it as part of my visit to the intel into the intel fab and what was cool about it was it allowed a remote technician to help just someone who's never seen this thing before um you know screw all the right things into the right things for for performing maintenance and stuff like that on on these super expensive machines where you really cannot afford any extra downtime and you can't afford a mistake it was absolutely usable but it was like glitchy as crap and we've seen this pattern time and time and time again did you see the the um did you see the machine learning

computer vision uh superimposed ads on nhl um the nhl sideboards no i don't think so it's really really bad uh check this out so yeah here we go so guys guys look at this because the thing is like yeah ai machine learning computer vision they keep getting they keep getting better and better and better but this was seven years in the making okay whoa yeah like that's a problem because see this is the actual board here right yeah and then this is the digitally superimposed garbage wow and so passes to ro. I hate it so much. Yeah. It's rough. And I know, I know. It's really easy to look at the technology we have now and go, yeah, it's impossible.

It's never going to get better. I'm not that kind of person. Right? Like, I love technology. I want to see it advance. It's just these are really, really hard problems to solve. It's just these are really, really hard problems to solve. And to imagine for a second that we are going to take the kind of performance that is running an application like this,

like this is a big GPU array. This is sucking back hundreds, maybe thousands of watts. Okay? We're going to take that and we're going to be able to seamlessly without glitches and and odd behavior put that in something you can wear and not look like a complete glass hole okay to imagine that's going to happen in a short amount of time is ridiculous i mean when when elon musk came out and said every tesla shipping today will be capable of full self-driving. To anyone who knows, who follows technology, who follows high performance computing and machine learning hardware, to anyone like that, it should have been obvious that that

was not true. Because we already knew that with the technology we had then, even if they were so efficient, they were double the performance of the GPUs of that time or triple. It wasn't even close. It wasn't even close. Yeah. When did I do that event? when did I do that event? Whenever I went to Facebook to go visit Oculus,

I said it was going to be 10 years or no, I didn't say it was going to be 10 years. The guy I was interviewing with that was there said it was going to be 10 years. And I agreed because I was saying similar things outside of that. But then someone at Facebook actually literally said it. And I was like, thank you. 10 years for what? Since it, until it'll actually turn mainstream oh i see what you mean

yep um and that made sense to me and now i'm feeling like that was actually not conservative enough yeah because like there's arguments that can be made for for quest who actually did go mainstream because they are trying to differentiate this they are saying that it's for professionals and three is coming and it will be low price business people and quest 3 blah blah blah so i don't think this is like the death of it or whatever i'm concerned about the jump that quest 3 will be if that makes sense um because because people are going to hate this. I bet you a very, very huge amount of those quest twos are sitting in boxes.

Really? I think so. How often do you hear about them? Oh, sitting in boxes, like not being used. Like people bought them, got some really good use out of them i think they genuinely did got some exercise i think people enjoyed it i think it was good

and then there were things that were kind of annoying people were definitely able to tell that it's not really there yet it's not really ready yet it's still a little laggy it doesn't feel that great this is interesting i scrolled down to the reviews section and even though it is overwhelmingly five star four star the top reviews which i don't fully understand exactly what the logic is are all negative. With lots of people finding them helpful. Yeah. IPD sucks. Everything's blurry. Hate having to have Facebook for this. Yep. A month later, it's an annoying brick.

Yep. Okay. Is this just, oh man. Okay. Is this part of this just review bombing? A lot of people have a Facebook account and to them, it is not a huge impediment that you need a Facebook account for this thing. And I don't think you even need it anymore i don't think you need it anymore i don't know it might be a bit of a mix i might be uh getting influenced by

the like facebook negativity uh not gonna lie i feel it as well you don't use your vr headset much though do you not much i don't have space for it oh Colton's available oh goody I'm kidding I'm kidding hashtag love Colton apparently Hassan needs help with his computer well then maybe he should buy a computer next time so that he'll have support for it. He got a free computer. Sir? Yeah, can we announce the LTX dates?

Oh, we can announce the LTX dates. Nice. He should do it. Do you know when they are, Linus? Because I do. No, I don't. July 29th and 30th, 2023. Okay, 29th and 30th. And that's when the backstreet boys are going to be in vancouver then right stop no no maybe i don't know i didn't check i wouldn't be surprised

with your luck saturday sunday saturday sunday okay july 29th and 30th 2023 okay you heard it here first ladies and gentlemen and in four years. It's happening no matter what. I don't care. Like, you know, we're doing it. Even if you're not with us anymore. Exactly. Even if I don't work for the company, I'm going to be there. All right, that sounds good.

Perfect. All right. Thanks, Colton. Thanks, bye. So there it is. If you have any other reason to be in Western Canada Then that's a good time to line it up So you can come hang with us

At LTX 2023 I'm excited It's going to be fun Plot twist it's when Blink-182 is touring Vancouver Yeah Tom is back I know right It's weird Blink-182 man it's weird uh but yeah i i

i honestly i hope i'm wrong i don't want to be right about this if i'm wrong that would be great and individual people are going to tweet me and be like mine's not rotting in a box and i'm going to be like that means nothing you're a single person um doubleple size of one. Love it. I suspect that a surprisingly high percentage of Quest 2s are sitting forgotten and unused. There is definitely a user base that is still using them. And that's great. That's good. Hooray. But yeah, like going from an index to a Quest 2 was disappointing.

Oh, well, yeah. But like big time well yeah like i didn't really want to play it at all well yeah yeah so i like it's okay yeah it's it's not it's not something that yeah it's like not really ready in my opinion and i'm not necessarily certain that quest three is going to be able to fully bridge that gap. I hope it does. Yeah. My assumption is that it won't. But maybe it will. What are our other major topics to talk about here?

Oh, and other NVIDIA news. Actually, we've got a few things here. They quietly removed the light hash rate limiter. Oh, yeah. In their latest driver apparently now that ethereum mining is not really a thing uh there is other mining but i guess they don't care about that because nobody's doing it anyway uh they have actually removed the limit so you can mine to your heart's content on uh light hash rate cards and I wanted to give you guys an update on MarkBench, the benchmark,

and our 4090 situation. So in our 4090 review, we actually had some numbers that were not accurate, particularly for, if I recall correctly, Cyberpunk 2077 was one of them, and then there were a couple of other issues. We're going to have, I think, a full update for you guys on what exactly happened, but it seems to stem from some platform instability that was causing crashes that were causing the game to

reset settings that we had already applied, and the numbers were wrong. Now, that's no excuse, because we should have, at some stage in our review, caught that those numbers looked, as the kids say, sus, and we should have fixed them. But all I can really say at this point is, yes, we should have. We're going to do better going forward. And that doesn't mean that we're going to throw the baby out with the bathwater here. Mark Bench development is absolutely moving forward. We're expecting it to do nothing but

improve. And one of the things that we're going to improve about it is this kind of built-in sanity checking. We've also got a new workflow where everything is going to have to be reviewed by an additional pair of eyes before publication. And hopefully this will be the last time you guys see something like that from us. The next big launch is, of course, going to be Intel's 13th Gen processors, and we are well underway with testing.

Very, very excited to share the results with you guys. I guess that's pretty much it for that. There's going to be a video detailing a little bit more of exactly what went wrong because we've also come across some very curious performance anomalies on AM5 separate from what we observed in our RTX 4090 review. Does Linus ever game in the stream? No, this is the WAN show. Twitch chat. I can't, you guys.

Technically, if the person is asking on this channel, then yes. Oh, sure. But very infrequently. Is there anything else we want to talk about? I mean, I guess there was thequently uh is there anything else we want to talk about I mean I guess there was the surface event surface pro x and surface pro 8 have both received refreshes it exists pro 8 is now intel 12th gen which is better and the pro x gets a new microsoft sq3 arm processor

provided by qualcomm both the pro 8 and pro x are now integrated into one Pro 9 line, available October 25th, or you can pre-order now. Not that we'd recommend that. You should wait until it's been reviewed. And it starts at $1,000 for the Pro 8, and the Pro X becomes the Pro 9 with 5G, starting at $1,300. These are very confusing naming. Okay. They'll make the cpu the only difference between the arm and the non-arm models and surface laptop 5 is now all intel no amd option whoops okay people are pointing out that you also played minor vga on wensho i actually did do that okay that's fair And there's a Surface Studio 2+, the all-in-one PC. It has outdated specs. Cool.

It has an 11th-gen CPU. Cool. And a 3060, which is definitely good timing for a new device launch with a GPU in it. Nice. New GPUs around the corner. Okay, cool. Why don't we do some merch messages? Yeah.

Dan! Hit me, my man. We'll get back in here. Let's see. Okay, this is from Eric. Hey, Linus, I know you play Badminton a lot, but have you ever tried pickleball? Big thanks to all the LTT crew. I have tried pickleball.

It's super fun. And when I get too old to play Badminton, I will definitely play me some pickleball. Why is that a thing? Is there less movement? It's kind of funny. Particularly doubles, high-level pickleball can be played with actually very little movement because the projectile doesn't need to bounce. doesn't need to bounce so it ends up being a lot of like both uh both partners like kind of kind of like volleying like back and forth like in the air without bouncing um so because you can cover so much of the of the court space and like lobbing it over the person is very difficult

so a lot of seniors play pickleball kind of like that. And it's a way to stay active, but not like. Cool. You know, have to run around the court like you do in something like badminton. Yeah. And like, like big sudden lunges. Yeah, exactly. Which can be really bad.

Exactly. Next question. Okay. This one's from Tristan. What is your advice for young adults who are transitioning into independence? I don't know. I don't know if I ever, I, if I ever transitioned into independence, some, one of the jokes that I make sometimes, depending on if it's an appropriate joke to make is that I've never

bought a pair of underwear for myself. I went straight from my mom buying my underwear to Yvonne buying my underwear. So wow. To Nick buying my underwear to Yvonne buying my underwear. Wow. To Nick buying my underwear. Yeah. LTT store talk. Yeah, in all fairness, I don't buy my own underwear anymore. I didn't really think about that.

Wow. Thanks, Nick. Yeah. Okay, got another one from Anonymous. Hey, Linus, is the company interested in whale investors? If so, who do I reach out to? Well, the first thing you're going to want to do is figure out how to speak a language other than...

I mean, they did type this out. Like, it's beautiful, but I don't really understand it. Yeah. So that's tough. Yeah, if text is an option, if you've got an accessible keyboard that allows you to fin type,

my understanding is whales often have quite agile mouths, quite dexterous mouths, then that's an option. You could type, we could correspond via text. As for who to reach out to about it. Okay, in all seriousness,

I will actually answer your question right now. We are not looking for any outside investment right now. We're pretty flush with cash actually. The community response to both the backpack and screwdriver launch has been overwhelming. We have covered our development costs for both of those projects and are now in the black on both of them. They're both shipping. We're in great shape.

I mean, it always depends on the magnitude and the terms. If you have a billion dollars and you still let him do whatever he wants, maybe's a conversation there yeah i'd have that conversation for sure but like it's how big of a whale you are i mean if you're if you're that big of a whale you probably have someone on staff who's smart enough to figure out how to get in touch with also that um so you know it's like it's that sort of thing right uh but it's like do you have enough blubber do you have enough blubber yeah it's a good question it's a good question though like to be clear it's like, do you have enough blubber? Do you have enough blubber? Yeah, it's a good question. It's a good question, though. Like, to be clear, it's not like we it's not like we couldn't use some investment. Like if you were to come and say, yeah, look, I only want a small percentage of the action.

And this investment is going to be such that creator warehouse could have multiple logistics hubs, um, bring the whole thing in house. And you could, you know, I don't, I don't know. Uh, you know, you could triple the footprint of the lab and accelerate the, you know, minimum viable product from 18 months to like 12 months. And like, you know, if, if it was, if it was really going to have a real impact on our ability to scale, then maybe. But as it is right now, we are not cash limited. We're limited by like it's hard to hire. We're limited by just the the the pace of decision making right like you don't want to

just expand for the sake of expanding you want to make sure that everything you're doing is carefully considered and meaningful you don't want to just build more products because you like had a cash infusion and these like build as many products as you can that's that's not a that's not a healthy way to grow and i think that would be a disservice to the investor if they were to come in and say, yeah, well, like my expectation is my investment grows. So do things dumb that are different from how you used to do them.

Like that's not good, right? So I would have to feel like we're providing, you know, a good value for you. And I feel like in the situation we're in right now we probably wouldn't be yeah yeah um i mean we've had uh we've had a lot of conversations internally about you know what would be the right ways to raise money and there's um you know the answer usually comes down to don't yeah yeah because no matter what it is, like on the one hand, it sounds cool, right? To say like community ownership.

Oh, yeah, that too. Right? Like, oh yeah, we're like the community owned media outlet or something like that. But at the end of the day, anytime there's an opportunity to make money, you're going to have people who are not community members, who are investors, who are just looking for a return. And investors typically want a return that beats other returns. They're putting their money to work. That's the whole wheel. That's the whole mouse wheel that everyone's running on is it's not about just running a profitable, successful company with a good brand image and with ethical practices. Well, that's not good for investors. Investors want you to maximize profits so that their money is working as hard as it possibly can.

And I'm not going to promise that. Yeah, your money might not work as hard as it can, because we might think that that isn't the right thing to do. You know, like there's there's there's verticals that we just don't accept sponsorships from outright we've had so many opportunities to take for example supplement sponsors there is a ton of money in supplements that's a huge minefield let me tell you about how much money there is in supplements because it's cost nothing right and it's like 40 bucks for this jar of god only knows what that has who knows what effect right um and so i've always just been extremely uncomfortable with it like that i could there would be exceptions where i where i

could potentially take a sponsorship from a company that is like a drug you put in your body um like mark cuban's thing looks super cool that super low cost um pharmaceuticals oh yeah that's totally different though but but that's totally that's that's wicked but totally different yeah that's a totally different situation um so you know i i feel like if we had investors breathing down my neck going well well if you guys had your own line of supplements then you guys could be increasing your revenue by 20 and look at the margin like i i don't want to deal with that i don't want to deal with that it's gross. You want some more? Yeah.

All right, this one's from Logan. I have finally convinced a friend who loves retro gaming to buy a PC. I built many for my friends, but this time she has had so many issues that at this point, I feel like I've made a mistake. Has something ever happened to you like that? Yeah, of course.

Of course. Yes. I mean, we were talking about it earlier on the stream. Hassan is having problems with the leftist PC that we built him. And I'm sitting here going, well, now it's my problem. Except I've been through this enough times that I'm sitting here going, eh, he's got money. He'd buy a different computer if he doesn't like it or pay for someone to deal with it yeah and like i know that when it's a when it's like a personal friend and you like built it for them and they actually like

probably paid for it unlike hasan um yeah there's there's an emotional, I don't know how to describe it, but definitely like regret, remorse, upset that goes along with it. Like the last thing you want to do as the tech friend, right, is get someone to buy the wrong thing because then A, they wasted their money and B, they damaged the trust. It's your reputation on the line. I take my reputation seriously. If I recommend something and you guys are like, hey, that company was actually a total grift,

I feel awful, right? So yeah, yeah, I get it yeah man more like problems i mean i don't even know what the i don't even know where to start with it right like all you can really do is update the firmware update the drivers um like maybe it's maybe it's crashing issues or i don't know. Okay, I got another one here from Philip. Linus slash Luke. What do you think about the imminent collapse of the SFF

case manufacturer Lock? Did they price themselves out of the market with a GPU-limited SFS case at $350 US? I didn't know that Lock was going out of business, but I guess that sort of reflects how important Locke was.

I mean, there's so many copycats in the space that do pretty much the same thing, like in the small form factor case market in particular, and the volumes are small, pun intended. So you have to make good margins on these cases in order to build a viable business um and so that in in turn keeps the volumes very small and there's so many competitors fighting over this like handful of small form factor cases that people are actually buying because here's the thing guys it's super cool to do showcase builds in small form factor cases but like andy for example had us has a small form factor pc that we did for his intel extreme tech upgrade he totally regrets it it's like i wish i just had a normal tower because when the time comes to do any kind

of maintenance or perform an upgrade you're're just like, oh, this sucks. I had one for my VR PC and I was like, oh, this sucks. And now I just use MATX. So I grabbed a Cerberus, which is still really small, but actually just uses like pretty standard components and I can get in and out of it

pretty easily. And even then, when we were talking about the ARC 30-day challenge, I was like, yeah, I'm only going to do it if changes out my gpu for me because it's a pain in the ass yeah i i have honestly always been quite confused at the sheer volume of companies that are in the small form factor space uh because the costs to make hardware are crazy they're really really really high and then you think about like like how many people do you he probably knows more but how many people do you know that actually run small form factor computers oh very few very few yep and if there was money in it right like if it was a viable business the big players would be more

in it. Corsair and Cooler Master and those guys would be like they'd be in there hard. Yeah. But they've all been burned on it. Yeah they tried and then stopped and like there's got to be a reason for that. Yeah I mean Corsair has their um oh my goodness I can't remember what it's called but they've got their uh their their their integrated system that's pretty small form factor. Why do I not remember what it's called? This is embarrassing. One? Is it one? Yeah, the Corsair One. Thank you. They've got the Corsair One, but they don't even sell that thing standalone because it's just not viable unless you have all the other margins of all of those components built into it and the whole system integration, like the system integrator margin, it just doesn't make sense. Yeah.

Yeah, Fractal has like one case. Yes, I know there are mainstream case manufacturers that do have small form factor cases, but they make up a tiny fraction of the small form factor designs that are on the market. It's wild i actually don't see any independent news um about loke or lock loke uh going out of business so um hopefully they're not because hopefully they're not cases yeah they do make gorgeous cases i just wouldn't use one

what do you mean damn hassan always says he loves you on his stream. He's going to be heartbroken. Heartbroken about what? I didn't say I don't like him. I didn't say I think he's bad. I just said that I'm not going to fix his computer because he has money. He can get a different one if he doesn't like it.

Or pay someone else to fix it. Yeah, or pay someone else to fix it. That's the thing. I can't be, I can't be someone's tech support forever because I give them a free computer. Right. Like that's, that doesn't make any sense.

The math doesn't work out. You know, maybe he should. I mean, I've, I've replied to his tweet complaining about it. I was like, you should buy a Star Forge PC then.

Yeah. They made that their banner on Twitter. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Only for a little while. Oh yeah. Yeah. Well, I, I told them, I was like, you should buy a Star Forge PC then. Yeah, they made that their banner on Twitter. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Only for a little while. Duh. Yeah, yeah.

Well, I told them, I was like, hey, without the context, this looks like a much stronger endorsement than I would actually be willing to give. That makes sense. And they were like, yeah, don't worry. We were going to pull it down like pretty quick style. That all makes sense. I was like, to be clear.

I thought it was funny. To be clear, I'm super cool with it. I think it's hilarious, but you actually may not leave this here long term, was kind of how I phrased it. And they were super cool about it. All right, hit us again. Okay, Luke, as the one now in charge

of LMG software development, what are your thoughts on the industry's general attitude to testing, or lack thereof, for either software in general or even video games? That's a broad question. That is a really, really broad question. Yeah, development styles is a conversation that we could talk about for hours. We could have a three-hour WAN show about development styles so

I don't know I like testing testing good I think one of the sponsors for today is kind of about that though isn't it yeah so like I I don't know

I think I think the space for testing is going to change quite a bit over the next five years. Um, and I think test driven development is going to, Ooh, wow. This is all going to be very interesting to have thrown at me in five years. I think test driven development is going to be less of a thing, even though I think it's actually kind of neat. I think there's a lot of pitfalls with it. And I think there's a lot of ways that something that I've been very frustrated, I'm tangenting way too much.

Something that I've been very frustrated about with software development for an extremely long time is it seems like just another space. And there are tons of these spaces out there where a lot of it was made artificially complex in order to try to stop gap people who like thought they were really smart and didn't want other people to be able to do it. guarantee you it's a thing. There's talks from people that are much, much, much better than I am talking about how the complexity and the difficulty and some of the gear grinding that is in software development right now is unnecessary and the development space should be ashamed of the state of it. And I agree with a lot of that, to be completely honest. There's things coming out a little bit more recently that are solving these types of problems. And I think testing is going to get that treatment in the next five to 10 years. Could I be wrong? Abso-freaking-lutely.

I have no idea, but I think I'll leave you with that. I've got the link. Loki, which is apparently how it's pronounced, they're having a liquidity sale starting yesterday so they've slashed prices in order to alleviate some cash flow issues apparently there you go so that's what's going on okay i've got a couple here that are more like uh the potential ones why don't we try one of these oh sure um hey love theAN show and had to purchase a second gift card to figure out how merch messages work. Anyway, Linus,

have you given the new Anker A10 Sleep Earbuds a try yet? I have not. Sorry. Okay, let's go for another one. Before writing your own automated benchmarking tool at the labs, did you check out Phoenix Benchmark Suite? Openbenchmarking.org?

And if so, why did you decide against using and expanding those? Pharonix. But basically, I was not involved in the decision. That's the whole thing when you hire a team of smart people is you have to kind of trust them to make decisions and that would be a really great question for gary maybe i can get an answer for you for next week but the truth is i actually do not know we've had a lot of people ask whether mark bench is going to end up being free to use or whether it will be an open source tool. The answer is we intend to make it free to use for individuals and not necessarily for commercial use. And as for making it open source, that is something that we are absolutely going to explore, but it's not

something that we are going to guarantee at this time. There was a miss post on the forum that was put up before anyone had actually talked to me about it, where we had said it was going to be open source in the future. Internally, I've said it's a possibility, but I have not said that it is something that is going to happen for sure. I've got a lot of people asking, why not open source? Because it's not necessarily the best path forward. It's not necessarily the best path forward it's not always the best path forward not everyone is gonna agree with that and that's okay and that's fine um and it's it's at our it's at our discretion and so we will use our discretion and hey your your feedback is duly noted. And it will be a factor for us. I'm going to go with this last one if you're into this.

With MarkBench or any other automation tools, UI test, MDM, et cetera, how do you convince a skeptical boss or manager who does not want to break existing processes to invest in the cost and time required, that sort of thing? I mean, you just have to put together a business case. And if your boss understands basic, pretty basic math,

then it should be okay. And if your boss doesn't understand pretty basic math, then it's going to be a pretty hard time. Sounds about right. Is that it? That's all I got. I think that's it. I had a little bit of inside baseball chat

to have with you guys. And actually this is, uh, we're about to have, uh, an executive meeting on stream. Oh, so YouTube memberships.

Oh, right. This kind of a competitor for float plane, which is, you know, bit of a sore spot for some of us wearing green shirts right now. Delete it. Delete it.

Yep. Just get rid of it. Yep. Okay. So that's not happening. Um, YouTube memberships right now they get monthly exclusive deals on ltdstore.com um but what they don't get is any of the behind the scenes or uh like cutting room floor extra videos or anything like that that gets

posted on floatplane every like two to three days these days. Um, there's some really cool stuff over there. I think we talked earlier about the behind the scenes of the, uh, the intro for the star Forge systems review, uh, which is, it's hilarious. Uh, you know, watching all the setup for that. Oh wait, no, it was, it was in the pre-show that I was talking about uh arthur trying to throw a box at me and ultimately ending up throwing it so weakly that i had to like headbutt it if you watch the final take on the star forage systems build i i like lean into it so that it actually looks like he threw the bloody thing at me so in the behind the scenes you can see how many times i had him rehearse that throw and he was just like i I don't know, like, like afraid to actually

throw it at me hard or something. Anyway, right now, YouTube members do not get any of those benefits. And we're sitting here going like on the one hand, yeah, float plane is better for us. It helps fund all of the development that we do here, not just float plane, like the float plane team works on all kinds of amazing stuff that benefits our company benefits the community um so obviously our preference is that if there's going to be some uh some cost right our preference is that it go to building the floatplane team not go to youtube finding hiring engineers to remove yeah features from the website the amount of money that we take with a subscription off floatplane is is better

than a subscription off of youtube yep um however a lot of people are just never going to go off platform yes they have already entered their credit card information into youtube they use into YouTube. They use like three websites total. Yep. And it's low friction. Join. That's it. And so we're trying to figure out a good way to serve those members without taking away the benefit, the advantage of Floatplane. So what I'm leaning towards right now is regardless of YouTube membership or Floatplane, you get behind the scenes exclusive content. You get the monthly deals. So we'll make sure that Floatplane gets the same thing. But the difference is I think YouTube memberships are going to start at $10 a month.

Floatplane will start at 10 bucks a month. Floatplane will start at five ongoing for 1080p for now and 10 for 4k. I mean, again, we get a better take from Floatplane. So if you want a similar return, you have to charge more. Another possible difference is that YouTube might be channel specific. So we might have... That one makes sense to me. I think it would actually be weird for it to not be like that. Yeah, like if we upload a channel super fun behind the scenes or something like that to the LTT members,

I actually don't think that makes a ton of sense. The floatplane peeps, I think, are much more understanding of what exactly that platform is. It's more like, we should probably just change the name at some point from Linus Tech Tips to Linus Media Group. Well, there's stuff that's literally in development right now, the sub-channel system.

Oh, cool. When is that going to be ready? I don't know. Don't ask me. Go away, please. But it's coming. So that will sort of solve that problem. It's possible that we'll reverse course and we'll just make it like, okay, yeah, the ltt channel has all of the exclusives but i do think it's super weird and i think that people would be less likely to understand exactly

what's going on with something like that so i think it would probably end up just being channel specific and right now the only channels that really publish behind the scenes or cutting room floor content are ltt and channel super fun so that's the way I'm leaning right now. But we do want to hear from the floatplane peeps. Is that something that you guys think is reasonable? Because the last thing we want is for you guys who have supported us for so long to feel like, oh, well, like, why did I have to bother, you know, dealing with the early bugs of the floatplane platform? Or, you know dealing with the early bugs of the floatplane platform or um yeah i mean there were there were some you know why why why do i have to feel like a beta tester when you know these guys could have a better better experience oh another thing we talked about actually was the potential

of publishing exclusives on like a time limit so like on lmg clips maybe once in a while we put an exclusive up there for like two hours or even like eight hours or 24 hours and then include like uh like like bumpers at the start and the end that are like hey if you like this and you want to watch more of it we're gonna have it over on floatplane or something like that like would you guys object to us using exclusive because i feel like people who are behind the scenes are like really good yeah like they're not know that they're there yeah they're not dumb and boring they're like they're like edited and like good um sometimes they're unedited but also really good yeah sometimes that's what you want yeah like depending on what it is and i feel like for anyone who isn't

already a floatplane subscriber they're kind of like oh yeah bts okay cool um they might not realize that it's really good oh yeah we should hit them with a poll yeah why don't we pull them do you guys mind if we use uh if we use exclusives occasionally and And I don't think we would ever upload something permanently. I think that on a time limit, I'm kind of imagining it like this message will self-destruct in, you know, this video will self-destruct in four hours or something like that. I feel like that could be kind of cool.

Whereas Floatplane will always have the full archive of every exclusive we've ever uploaded i always gotta remember the first option bias or whatever it's called there's a thing with polls really the first option gets more votes really it's it's it's like this weird thing if i remember correctly it's the same gergie 008 says i meant to say no sorry this is kind of my point uh yeah it's like actually so that yeah the first option is going to get a little bit more it's it's related but not the same problem as how if you if you have standardized colors for for teams um like if

you're playing at a school and you put what are those called the little temporary pennies if you have pennies and it's like all red versus blue or whatever the team that is red will play differently than will have their play influence slightly differently than the team that is blue um if i remember correctly there's some stuff where the team that is red harder will be more better color more offense pressed and the team that is blue will be more defense shut up there's it's very very small but apparently it is actually a thing um i don't remember exactly how it goes whatever look it up yourself um it's been a long time since i've done done any reading on that but if i remember correctly it's it's related it's the first thing that you see is the first option. If you read it that way, obviously, maybe you read it

bottom up. But the first thing that you see is you have your first reaction to it. So your reaction to it's going to be the strongest. Yeah, I don't know. It's weird. That's wild. All right. Well, just shy of 80% are saying, no big deal. Do what you got to do. 20% are saying yes, we mind. I guess a small handful of them might have just clicked the first option. We forgive you. It's not going to influence it to the degree of 20%. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But yeah, these things are like really, really small. But yeah. Apparently, yeah, it's been observed in league of legends and dota i heard about that as well really minor play style differences depending on on what what colored side you're on and if i remember correctly some games have tried to lower this influence by changing the colors to more mixed colors like purple um it's yeah it's really interesting tf2 demonstrated it back in the day possibly halo yeah it's like it's really interesting tf2 demonstrated it back in the day possibly halo yeah it's like it's it's totally a thing it makes very small differences but it's totally a

thing got it okay well we're gonna keep uh we'll keep our finger on the pulse of this one i can tell you we'll probably do one just to kind of see because for all we know it's gonna confuse and and enrage youtube viewers like Like they might go, well, what do you mean this is the temporary? Cause we, we've never really like done that sort of thing before. Yeah.

So we'll have to see. We'll have to see. Oh, that's an asymmetrical map. So Direside just wins more. That's stupid. And I think that's it for the land show. Yeah. Yeah. We will see you again next week

same bad time same bad channel bye I actually said it this time I'm sorry you gonna do it? hey wait did you do it right? is there just no queue? yeah there's no queue

okay sweet it's a merge message in queue one. I don't see that. Let's do that.