The WAN Show - Uh... is our Ryzen 5000 Review WRONG?? - WAN Show November 6 , 2020

Episode Date: November 9, 2020

Visit https://www.squarespace.com/WAN and use offer code WAN for 10% off Learn more about the MSI MAG B550 TOMAHAWK Motherboard on Amazon at https://geni.us/sxc6m or Newegg at https://geni.us/fudnna Save 10% at Ridge Wallet with offer code LINUS at https://www.ridge.com/Linus Check out Carpool Critics, our new movie podcast: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCt-oJR5teQIjOAxCmIQvcgA Timestamps (Courtesy of NoKi1119) 00:01:25 - Intro 00:02:19 - Topic #1: AMD is, once again, on the top [And benchmark difference] 00:23:52 - Topic #2: Apple's A14X laptop benchmarks LEAKED --SPONSOR SPOTS-- 00:30:45 - MSI MAG B550 Tomahawk 00:31:29 - Ridge Wallet 00:32:09 - SquareSpace --SPONSOR SPOTS-- 00:32:58 - Topic #3: Uber and Lyft do not classify drivers as employees 00:44:55 - Topic #4: Debt collectors 00:49:50 - Topic #5: Your router is probably vulnerable 00:52:07 - Topic #6: Friendly reminder to do offline backup 00:53:23 - Wrapping up 00:54:36 - Woops, almost forgot the superchats! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

You know what's great about ambition? You can't see it. Some things look ambitious, but looks can be deceiving. For example, a runner could be training for a marathon, or they could be late for the bus. You never know. Ambition is on the inside. So that goal to beat your personal best?

Keep chasing it. Drive your ambition. Mitsubishi motors nice he's just like older and like busier now but he's still he's still frequent and we're live welcome to the wan show ladies and gentlemen we've got a fantastic show for you today lots of good things to talk about amd took the performance crown this week luke luke did you think you'd live to see the day? In recent years, yes. But if you asked me five years ago, maybe not.

Yeah, no, I'd have said the same darn thing. Unfortunately, it looks like there are some discrepancies between our benchmark results and some other reviewers. So we're going to talk through what we think might have happened here. Anthony's been doing a little bit of post-mortem investigation here. In other news, Apple's A14X benchmarks have leaked ahead of the upcoming Apple event, which might give us some idea what to expect from the Apple Silicon Macs. Does that not sound like iPhone whatever Macs, like Pro Macs, like Apple Silicon Macs.

It's to the extreme. What else we got today? It's our release version two. Uber and Lyft do not have to classify drivers as employees. That was a big, we were talking about that on the WAN show like three or four years ago, at least. And a swift kick in the gnats your router is probably vulnerable which sucks we'll talk about that later though oh that's a pretty major clickbait oh dang it there we go your network is vulnerable

well it's not bait if it's real you know yeah of bait is that there's a hook that lodges itself in your tonsils under it. That's what bait means. It's true. Oh, crap. Who am I supposed to have here for this week? Oh, balls. Doing for sponsors? They are... Squarespace!arespace they're sponsors all right uh uh hold on full page here we go oh msi ridge wallet squarespace a there we go sure whatever

okay cool so why don't we i did it i did it right why don't we jump right into amd 5000 did you watch our review you piece yes emma's been trying to get me to read your your meme comments video or whatever that was recently but i was like i'm busy busy yeah stuff luke's been luke's been super busy on the float plane lately it's actually been really good really good we've been getting lots of updates so fine why don't i fill you in after much anticipation amd has launched their ryzen 5000 series desktop processors based on their new zen 3 architecture one of the craziest things about this launch to me is the fact that there was no die shrink like this is still a seven nanometer chip just like the last one except more faster and more better so the ryzen 5 5600x is 299 us

that gives you six cores 12 threads remember when 300 us dollars could get you six cores 12 threads in the intel days before amd was competitive no i'm just i'm kidding i'm kidding luke's like panicking he's like uh um wait uh hold on a second we're gonna get an email from epic i don't know i don't want to fail the test i'm gonna have to make an apology video um yeah so so we didn't have that 65 watt tdp like what 5800x this one is killer eight cores 16 threads uh 4.7 gigahertz max boost 105 watt tdp uh 5900x if you're into that mondo performance i think the 5600x and the 5900x are really just like the ones to buy and it's it's pretty clear i was just gonna ask you and i i do kind of agree but it is i mean it is 50 bucks and i think quite a few people

wouldn't notice necessarily the benefit from 8 to 12 cores i think i'm not i'm not saying i've seen quite a few people i think you're mad sir think you're mad. I think you need to sit down and have a drink of water, lttstore.com. I think you're delirious. Delirious. So you know what? No, I strongly disagree. Because if you need eight cores, you need 12. There.

I said it. And if you don't need eight cores, then buy a 5600X. That's my take on that. Because it's 200 cheaper so you can really tell that particularly right now yeah okay yeah amd's yields on these are such that they really want you to buy the ones that are six cores per ccx and you're yeah yeah and you're saving a lot of uh tdp there as well yeah okay i take that back with two dead two dead cores so you can you can tell they've got some some defects to deal with otherwise i do think that they there would be a smaller price difference going from a 5600x to a 5800x the 5800x does have the highest

base clock and boost clock but it's by such a small amount or no not boost clock not boost no it boosts higher as they go so the more that's interesting the more cores you got the better the odds you can find a real real golden 4.9 gigahertz one or whatever i suppose so here's the problem though while everyone agrees that ryzen 5000 is pretty sexerific what they don't agree on is how sexerific. So early reviews ranged from everywhere from as good as to much better than Intel's Core i9-10900K. What is up with this range? We reported among the higher results with Der Bauer, so Roman Hartung, I don't know how to pronounce his last name, it's German, so like I wouldn't even, I wouldn't even stand a chance.

So with Der Bauer reporting even faster still results. Now, what this seems to indicate to us, because Gamers Nexus was right around in line with us, is that low latency and high speed DDR4 memory could play an even bigger role in Zen 3 performance than we anticipated, even knowing that Ryzen 1000, 2000, and 3000 were all highly dependent on optimizing your memory speed. So many reviewers were using low-latency DDR4-3200, and we were using DDR4-3600. As for Gamers Nexus, Anthony was going back and forth with Steve, if I recall correctly. Who did he tell me he was going back and forth with? I think he was chatting with Steve. I'm going to check my notes here. Nope, no, he was going back and forth with someone else about something. Nope. I think he just checked in and had a look at their at their stuff.

So, yeah, so they hand tuned their timings, which does make a significant difference to performance. So let me just it was actually an email. That's my problem. I don't want to get my story wrong here. If he was talking to someone about it, then I want to make sure that I want to make sure that I'm crediting them properly. Anthony, it was in a it was in a status report or something i think numbers uh gamers nexus reported nope no he didn't he didn't talk to steve about it but um

yeah they they hand-tune their stuff so that seems to be what happened there um and it really merits well further investigation i guess we done, does gaming memory matter? Or like, how fast memory do you need for gaming? A couple of times in the last few years, but it seems like with Verizon 5000, it might be worth exploring again because all of a sudden we're going from, yeah, there's not much benefit past, you know, 3200

to all of a sudden, okay, 3600, and even DDR4 4000 is resulting in substantial performance improvements. Notably, Der Bauer was actually running 2000 megahertz on the Infinity Fabric clock. So he was running one to one to one. No dividers. Now, Intel's Intel's upcoming... Is that concerning to you at all sorry in what like the fact that you need more expensive memory to to get the most out of ryzen 5000 the fact that a group of reviewers ended up getting results that varied as from a from like a like if you were like that the hat i guess i want you to put on is your like product manager

ncx hat sure like would that concern you in terms of sales and customers coming back complaining anything like that no because the reality of it is most people who buy a computer are never going to run a benchmark on it ever they're going to they're going to immediately install epic games launcher download fortnite and start playing fort. And the thing is that for most people like you and I are in this unique position. Well, I guess you haven't been to the office in months, but I am in this unique position where I'm surrounded by tech all day, every day. You know, you name a generational technology improvement in computers or phones for the last eight years. And I experienced it going right from the last generation to this one, every individual

generational leap. Well, most consumers are on an upgrade cycle that is at the fastest two to three years. And it's going to feel super fast anyways, typically more like five to eight. So anyone upgrading from like, let's think about, you know, what a gaming machine looked like eight years ago. You were running, you were rocking like a 2600K, right? I mean, I was rocking 2600K three years ago. Yeah, so 2600K, you bought a gaming machine eight years ago. You bought a 2600K, okay?

It's time to upgrade today. You buy Ryzen 5000. Are you worried about like 6% of the Ryzen 5000's performance or 4% performance difference? No. You're getting your new machine, you're installing your games on it, and you're going, holy s**t, I can't believe my games can look like this. This is butter f***** move. Like, this is unbelievable. I'm so happy I saved up for it, blah, blah, blah. You're not- Exactly. You're stoked. So the reality of it is most consumers never do this kind of like splitting hair benchmarking.

Like, I think even many enthusiasts, well, not even. I think many enthusiasts overestimate the size of their niche. Like, yes, the PCMR subreddit is a million strong now or whatever the case may be, but there's a lot of people on there that are not going in and hand-tuning memory timings. They just love the memes. So that's not indicative of how many of these people there are.

Even working for NCIX, which was a very enthusiast-centric retailer, the vast majority of the time that I talked to an actual customer, they don't follow this stuff. Like not like we do, you know, they're, they're just there. They like it. You can be an enthusiast without being obsessed with it and without wanting to turn it into another job that you have to do on the side when you get home from work. Okay. I gotta, I gotta research all the, all the new tech stuff. And I. Okay, I gotta research all the new tech stuff and I gotta learn about the new infinity fabric.

And like, most people don't operate like that. They just buy a shiny new toy and they're happy with it. And to put your head in that mindset, think about the last time you bought a drill, for example. How many amps is the motor? Like, who the cares? Does it put in the motor? Like, who the f*** cares? Does it put in the screw? Okay.

Well, that's how most people buy a gaming PC, right? I guess in a lot of these situations, you're talking about like most people, not everyone. Absolutely. Absolutely. And that subcategory of people will probably be fine, I guess. Yes. So most people are probably be fine, I guess. Yes. So most people are probably not going to care.

So from like a business standpoint, it doesn't matter. It's going to be a handful of people that are like, oh, I watched every review about this and I noticed there was a discrepancy. Do you think it could lead to lower sales? No, not realistically. to lower sales no not realistically because i feel like if this if this happened this strongly in the in like their their first resurgence into the cpu scene it made it might have been more concerning but because we've had the last like couple generations of really solid amd processors people are not nearly as worried now they're kind of the default purchase in a lot of situations

yep in the in the enthusiast space like in and i don't mean enthusiast obsessive i just mean people who are enthused by high performance computing in the enthusiast space they are a go that i would say they're the go-to right now and what's really nice is that ryzen 5000 doesn't come like our recommendation of it doesn't come with the same caveats that we had with first gen Ryzen in particular, where it came out and we were like, AMD is back in the game, but I'm not ready to recommend this because we had a lot of, uh, we had a lot of stability issues and we're, you know, this thing ain't ready for primetime. Like Ryzen 5000 just, just went, you know, you know,

just went you know you know your wife does she go does she go mate you know is she a goer she's a goer people who get the reference will get it i don't i don't care yeah yeah that's fine i that's fine well if i if i tell you then you know that's cheating that's cheating i'm sure someone i'm sure someone from chat, someone from chat will inform you. They'll inform you. All right, I'll just tell you. I'll just tell you.

Monty Python for the win. It's a Monty Python reference, yes. Is she a goer? Like, what? What do you mean? You know, does she go? Go where? It's been a long time since I've watched it,

but it's just really uncomfortable to watch um all right intel has a response i'm actually a little surprised uh the timing is about right for intel to have started working on this right around the time amd got super actually yes no these guys are competitive uh-oh this looks like trouble um so hey i love it intel turns out can actually do stuff when it matters. Their Rocket Lake CPUs coming in Q1 next year are speculated to be roughly 10 to 20% faster per clock than the current gen Comet Lake CPUs.

It's funny how AMD is like, yay, they drew even. And then Intel is like, hey, they're going to have what looks like potentially a similar intergenerational uplift in spite of the fact that they are still stuck on 14 nanometer and everyone's like yeah what do you want a cookie huh and that's what happens that's what happens when your business practices are to deliver the bare minimum while you have no competition

and then suddenly go oh what hey well we make cpus let's make some cpus boys i forgot we have like fantastic engineers on yeah i forgot we have literally some of the smartest people in the world working here and instead of like you know letting them build cool we're busy like optimizing every last, you know, Xeon bronze, silver, gold, platinum tier of, of every chip we make to get the most money out of it. Like,

stop, stop. I tweeted a little while ago. I was like, Intel, please put an engineer in charge, sign everyone or like sincerely everyone. Yeah.

That was a good tweet. It's like, what do, what do what do the silicon valley companies that are or excuse me the the hardware companies what do the hardware companies that are really outperforming the rest have in common right now and i'm talking companies like tesla amd nvidia what do they have in common? They have engineers in charge. And like, to be clear, it's not like I'm saying this out of like self-interest.

You know, oh, I wanna get a job because I'm a highly skilled, you know, engineer. Please hire me to be the CEO of your company. I'm totally not qualified to run a company like Intel. The difference is that I know it. Yeah, definitely. Offends me. Anyway, Intel may regain their single-threaded performance lead,

but they will likely fall further behind in multi-threaded because Rocket Lake is rumored to cap out at eight cores per chip. So looking at AMD's lineup here, Intel is looking like they're going to be in a position where they do not have a product to compete with anything over 500 US dollars from AMD's lineup. And the craziest thing is AMD will have spent the last five months recouping their R&D on Zen 3 with these chips and is going to be ready to meet whatever Intel comes at them with with a price drop. Like, oh man, it is a bad time

to buy a processor right now because in another 18 months, there's going to be faster stuff from both Intel and AMD. 18 months though. I'm just saying AMD will have refreshed this with Zen 3 plus or Zen 4 or whatever the next thing on the roadmap is. They'll have a five nanometer CPU. Intel's probably going to have some kind of like, they're going to be going as fast as they can here trying to catch up. It is such an exciting time to like, to build gaming PCs. Did you see our CSGO results? You said it's not a good time to buy a processor. I know. I know. If you don't like buyer's remorse, it's a terrible time to buy a processor. Oh, I guess. I mean, I guess if you're going to have buyer's remorse a year and a half later.

Well, for the longest time, remember when you and i would see that in the comments on the videos and stuff people be like people were like mad when uh what what gpu uh launch was it uh the 3000 series i forget yeah that one that one recently right like people are mad when you know all of a sudden their stuff's obsolete 24 months down the line. It's like, it used to be things were obsolete. I feel like I'm talking about walking to school in the snow uphill both ways. It used to be our stuff was obsolete in six to eight months. And damn it, we liked it that way.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. By the time your computer was three years old it was like an ancient brick yeah it was garbage and that was the best all right um something something something uh blah blah blah rocket lake you know what i thought was another really cool move from amd this generation no new chipset so on the one hand they did let us down a little bit, you know, 300 series chipsets not working on the new chips at all. But they still managed what, like three

generations for 300 series, and then 400 series is getting a full three generations. That's one generation per chipset better than Intel managed. So, hey, you know what? Good job. And they went and they didn't go and unnecessarily release a refreshed chipset. So motherboard manufacturers can refresh their board designs if they feel like the new CPUs need more power phases or USB 3.2 by 2 Gen 6, whatever they're calling these stupid standards these days. Or, you know, you want to add some two and a half gigabit

that's more affordable now to your lineup. That's great, but you don't have to, you don't feel obligated to buy a motherboard in any way. That always drove me crazy when the only answer you'd be able to get from both AMD and Intel going back, the only answer you'd ever be able get from both AMD and Intel going back, the only answer you'd ever be able to get when you'd ask, okay, so do I have to get the new chipset with this chip?

And they'd be like, well, it's optimal. Like, what does that mean? It means, you know, they're built, they're engineered for each other. And I'm like, right. But is there a performance difference? Well, it's optimal. You know, they're engineered for each other. Is there a performance difference?

And we were never able to measure one i don't think there was a single time that we had like a cpu refresh on a given platform and we were able to measure some kind of performance difference from the last gen chipset to the new one sometimes you'd get more usb ports or whatever which is which is great but not terribly important for from like a gaming standpoint like how many usb3 ports do you need on a gaming rig you do vr um say no didn't offer yeah well most of the usbs that i have plugged in are for uh like cameras or or vr stuff or the stream deck or charging my phone or whatever like it's not actually really related to actually just gaming like yeah exactly exactly if all you need to do is game you good you know what else you need for gaming lttstore.com okay guys move fast on this one uh it's another limited edition one load up your browser load up your browser right now, ladies and gentlemen. If you are a Floatplane 4K, like Floatplane Plus subscriber, check your posts

on Floatplane because you're going to have a coupon code over there to save a little bit of moolah. Save some moolah. Everyone else, you're going to have to pay full price but i guarantee you it's worth it this is our second limited edition foil shirt rgb cpu oh yeah well it's actually pretty cool it's pretty sick so they the ltt that's hidden in it is super stealthy this time. So it's like, where the hell is it? There you go. There. Can you try to like catch different light reflections by like twisting a little bit?

Yeah, there we go. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I absolutely love this. Sarah outdid herself with this design and we've learned a lot about foil, printing with these foils since we did the keyboard shirt.

So we're still gonna have bad yields on this. So the price is still $30 like last time. Also the foil is just more expensive. But what you might notice is that our yields are actually fairly similar, even though this is a way more intricate design. Way more difficult to print. Yeah.

So we've learned a lot, but we want to kind of, instead of just printing something simple again and having higher yields, we decided we wanted to push the envelope and do a CPU pin shirt, but with the foil. So limited quantity similar to last time uh keyboard sold out by the end of wan show if i recall correctly last time so you guys are going to want to move fast if you want to get one someone said is this a paid competition again you will never know paid competition there are no competitions at all um oh yeah it yeah, it's not a competition. Yeah. There's no competition. There's no, there's no like prizes for ordering. All you get is a shirt.

And if something else happened to happen, then that would happen. Um, I don't specifically have any plans to do anything, but a lot of the time that's sort of like a spur of the moment kind of thing. So, uh, I, I, I will neither confirm nor deny, uh so uh i i will neither confirm nor deny uh anything i will neither confirm nor deny uh and you shouldn't i i like you should not buy a shirt in hopes of like winning a prize that is the worst reason ever to buy a shirt you should buy a shirt because you think it's cool and you want to wear it and then if you win something you should be like stoked there you go yeah i'm not going to tell you how to feel, but that's how you should feel.

Okay? And think. And think, yeah. Not going to tell you how to think. I'm going to let you finish, but... All right. Apple A14X benchmarks. I am stoked to have a look at this, actually.

They've been leaked ahead of the Apple event, which pretty much tells us for sure that Apple will be launching an Apple Silicon MacBook device. So potential devices include a 13-inch MacBook Pro, 13-inch MacBook Air, and possibly a 16-inch MacBook Pro. That would surprise me. 16-inch MacBook Pro. I mean, the implication for a 16-inch MacBook Pro. That would surprise me. 16-inch MacBook Pro. I mean, the implication for a 16-inch MacBook Pro is that this is a performance device.

The alleged Geekbench 5 benchmarks for the A14X show a 1.8 gigahertz processor capable of turboing to 3.1. So this would be the first custom Apple Silicon to ever clock above 3 gigahertz. The GPU results show 8 gigs of RAM will be included with the processor, although we don't know that there wouldn't be other configurations with different amounts of RAM. It's an 8-core processor with a big little arrangement. So that means four big cores, four little ones. And for single-core benchmarks, it looks like it's about... Oof.

Like 5% faster than the a14 um multi-core benchmarks though big difference so 7220 versus 4198 so when you're like outputting a video or something like that it seems like the a14 that's present in the new iphones iPhones has a fair bit of thermal headroom that can be unlocked. I was going to mention thermal headroom because you still have... Didn't you do a video a long time ago when you had a MacBook in a pan of water or something? Yes.

To cool it. Do you think these benchmarks are done actually in a realistic thermal scenario? Yeah, I would think so. I think that whoever got their hands on these devices early, just like was goofing around with it and probably like accidentally uploaded it to the database or something like that. Like that's what I would, that's what I would guess. Whoever it is, it's probably going to get in trouble because I would imagine there's only a handful of people that have their hands on these things ahead of time.

It's, it's interesting. I know of a story of a person who worked at a mobile, mobile phone store. That's as specific as I'm going to um and they they get the iphones usually i believe roughly two days early so they can like set up their inventory and do all that other kind of stuff and um one of the boxes was opened and the person was playing around with the phone um which is apparently not even like way that uncommon but they made the mistake of getting the phone onto wi-fi and apparently within two hours the store was contacted really like

well one of their phones connected i'm sure they don't have like detailed tracking necessarily but they would have device ids and stuff and one of their phones that should not be online is suddenly online with an IP address of somewhere that isn't Apple headquarters or wherever else. So I'm not going to go way too far into the details of what happened there, but it was very bad. I would, I would say that much. So if, if someone's going to do this, if someone's not only going to just accidentally get something on wifi, but they're also going to go through and benchmark a bunch of things and do stuff like that.

Um, unless this person is super gone, I'm going to go with that. This was very planned. Wasn't necessarily horsing around and this data was scraped and then uploaded in a different way. Hmm. Okay. that's fair. That's a fair point. And I'm not surprised. There's a note here that says

it is unknown if this benchmark is real. Apple Insider was unable to verify if the information is like legit. And that is not surprising because if you did this, I'm sure you'd want to be very, very secretive about doing it. So it might be legit.

I, yeah. It took a matter of hours for Apple to contact us regarding our developer kit, for example. And that whole thing, the way that shook out is Apple eventually canceled their call with me to talk about whatever they wanted to talk about, which presumably was that. And what we decided to do was send it back to the developer before talking to Apple. Because if Apple... So the thing is, we didn't sign an NDA.

We were under no obligation to... Well, like anything. Apple wasn't in a position where they could threaten us legally unless we had their stolen property and didn't immediately return it. So what would happen then is if I talked to Apple and they said, you need to send it back to me and I didn't do it, then I could be in legal trouble. And if I did do it, the developer could be in legal trouble because they did sign an NDA. So what I wish we had done, what I wish we had done is run the benchmarks, then sent it back, then teased that we had it

because at that point, I don't really think there'd be anything they could do. They could bother us. They could file a lawsuit or they could file a complaint or whatever the case may be. But given that we have no agreement whatsoever with Apple, and at this point, it's very clear that we will never have one. I replied and I was like, hey, so are we rescheduling that call? And

just total radio silence. So Apple just doesn't have an interest in building bridges with people that they can't, I mean, how do I say this delicately? With people who aren't going to play by their rules, pretty much, is the observation that I've made over the years. There's companies that want dissenting voices and want to be told how to do better. And there's companies that think they know better and don't want to hear from anybody else. And Apple falls into the latter camp very clearly. Yeah. Very, very clearly. Even their customers loudly complaining about that horrendous MacBook Pro keyboard.

It still took them two years to fix this. Like, how does this... You literally spend... I think they're in the top three companies in the world for R&D spending, definitely top 10. And you can't fix a broken keyboard? Like, what? You know, there are companies that specialize

in like making keyboard key switches. You could talk to one of them, maybe. No, no, you have to invent your own wheel, the Apple wheel, the iWheel. All right, why don't we go ahead and do sponsor response. Check out the MSI Mag B550 Tomahawk motherboard. It's got an AM4 socket supporting 3rd Gen AMD Ryzen processors and, my notes say future AMD Ryzen processors, but I think we all know that means Ryzen 5000 series processors with a BIOS update. It supports DDR4 memory up to 5100 MHz overclocked, which, as we know now, very important.

PCI Express Gen 4 with a Gen 4 M.2 and 16x slot. Honestly, like, B550 is the shiz. Premium thermal solution, onboard 2.5 half gig lan plus a gigabit lan port and you can check it out today at the link in the video description what can i what can i do for you luke you looked like you wanted to say something there nothing nope i was just uh i was fixing something really quick all righty then with ridge wallet you can stop carrying around pointless items in your pocket like receipts old hotel room keys and spent gift cards ridge wallet or ones that aren't spent but you just just have like $1.72 on them.

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What else we got to chat about today? Uber and Lyft. This is, can I, can I, am I allowed to get political for a minute here? Can I get, can I get political a little bit here? Just for a little bit. I'm sorry, Nick. Yeah, but be careful.

This is bullshit. Drivers and other workers for gig economy companies in california will not become their employees after voters overwhelmingly approved prop 22 which allows gig economy companies to continue treating their drivers as independent contractors uber lyft and the delivery service DoorDash designed the measure to exempt the companies from a state labor law that would have forced them to employ drivers and pay for health care, unemployment insurance, and other benefits. As a concession to labor advocates, the initiative does offer setting a partial minimum wage, although this is only for actual time on the road, a stipend to help cover the cost of a healthcare plan for the most active drivers, and insurance coverage for accidents, illness,

and lost wages. That does help a little bit. Uber says they'll make these new benefits available as soon as possible. So here's my problem. Okay, you know what? I'll talk through the rest of the thing first. Opponents worry that these companies will commit a type of fraud called labor misclassification. According to the Economic Policy Institute, between 10 to 20% of employers misclassify at least one worker

as an independent contractor. These freelancers aren't entitled to the full suite of benefits allowed under employment law, including broader minimum wage rules, overtime pay, and sick leave. Nor do employers have to pay into the social security and Medicare systems on the workers' behalf. Uber and other gig economy players are likely to pursue federal legislation to enshrine gig work in the nation's labor laws, and companies in favor of Prop 22 spent a record-setting $205 million to help secure a win here.

Uber, Lyft, DoorDash, Instacart, and Postmates, with support from groups as diverse as California Chamber of Commerce, the California Police Chiefs Association, and California NAACP. The opposition, including many unions and labor rights groups, spent less than $20 million. Because when you're not making a ton of money, you know what?

I'm going to use the E-word. Exploiting people by not giving them proper employment benefits. It's hard to spend a bunch of money lobbying, isn't it? What did they do to lobby? Because this looks like, I just looked up, I don't know. Not just lobbying. So if I recall correctly, this was something that voters actually voted on. So it was just, it was advertising.

So convincing the average voter that it's bad for people to have employee rights. How does this work? How does this kind of stuff get voted for? What is going on i think that's where you probably uh slow down um you're flirting with a different topic but uh it looks like it passed with with 82 reporting so i guess they stopped because they had enough votes in. But yes won at 58.5% with 7.8 million votes and no lost with 5.5 million votes. Like, to be clear, I do not think that unions should have an unlimited amount of power. You know, I think it like, I had teachers in high school that it was, it should have been criminal for them to still have a job

for how little work they did and how few they gave. Like it was unbelievable. And you probably had both, right? Like you have ones where it's like, you're a saint and it's incredible that this school has you at all. They were too good for this. They were too good for this. They were too good for the podunk school

that I went to. Absolutely. I had those. And then you have the other side. My English teacher in AP 11 and 12 changed my life. I would not have the career that I have in tech if it were not for him.

100%. My computer teacher, my physics teacher, and my English 11 teacher had like massive, massive impacts on everything to do with moving forward. He taught me to write, which is basically everything that I do. Everything that I do is pretty much an essay. If you are a good essay writer, you can fumble your way through almost anything. Job application, cover letter, basically an essay about why you're the best applicant for the job. Presentation, basically an essay. Meeting your future in-laws for the first time. It's all the same structure. It's all like forming an

argument and presenting yourself or presenting your side in the best possible light or in a fair light. Yes. Expanding them out again and then restating them again to hammer the point home. My English 10 teacher was probably only in the classroom for 65% of the time. We actually went out and found him we found him a couple times and he was usually in the cooking room sampling the wares before lunch i'm not even i wish i was joking so my parents my english 10 teacher was a piece of useless garbage as well and then my english 11 teacher is like probably one of the best teachers to grace this planet it was it was a drastic difference it's i hated hated english with a passion until grade 11 my parents

my parents are both teachers and i remember my mom telling me and i was i was horrified i was complaining about a bad teacher and she's like well nothing's gonna change because uh as the saying goes you have to be caught with a live boy or a dead girl and i was like as this excuse me mother as the saying goes what now and but that's how powerful the bctf was at least at that time who quoted this this is my mother you've met my mom it shouldn't surprise you um so to be clear i'm not for all powerful unions that make it so you cannot get rid of bad workers but you also can't completely take away employee rights. That's not right either. And so when you've got these literal billion dollar companies, literal billion dollar companies that are going, oh, I'm terribly sorry. We're far too poor to make

people actual employees. Bullshit. Every single worker at at linus media group except for the one that stubbornly refuses to become an employee because he has like other gig work that he does and it makes taxation it makes more taxation sense for him to continue to be a contractor we still give him all the benefits that like he has so he pays independently into a dental plan we just give him extra cash for it like we still make sure he's taken care of but everyone other than that is an employee they have full-time hours with mostly predictable schedules that is not an unfair thing to ask the year is 2020 like yeah and like north amer North America is even behind places like EU in terms of time off laws and all this other kind of stuff.

So denying even that much is kind of wild. So, yeah, I'm not saying the union system is perfect. And I've got people in the chat that are talking about union dues. Yeah, I mean, if unions are charging you unreasonable unreasonable dues and not not sticking up for your rights. Yeah, I'd be mad, too. I used to work at a place. I'm going to name drop it. I used to work at a place called the Canada Bread Factory. Oh, yeah. You had to be a part of the union to work there. And I just I just wanted a job between semesters of post-secondary. That's all I wanted. And the worst person to deal with

at that entire place was our union rep. And he like didn't like me. So he would on purpose, I was on call. He would on purpose make sure that I was called roughly eight hours after my previous shift had ended. So I would like go work and then have my like day and then right when i was going to sleep he would try to call me every time um he was just come in yeah why if i refused then he would uh skip me next time around because he just he just like didn't like me um i i have a theory that he didn't i mean i get it you're not very likable so yeah there's that theory that he didn't like me because i think he didn't like me um i i have a theory that he didn't i mean i get it you're not very likable so yeah there's that theory that he didn't like me because i think he didn't like my brother who used to work there oh wow like we you can't get rid of him because he's the union guy and like

no matter how much and like i wasn't the only person there that had an issue with him and i wasn't the only person there that he messed with and when he would like go away sick yeah this other lady that worked at the union office would handle all of our stuff she was amazing but like he was a dink and we couldn't do anything to get rid of him or deal with it and all this and there was like other issues that we had and i it was taken out of my paycheck when it didn't benefit me in any way and all I wanted was more money to go back to school. It sucked. But there are also lots and lots and lots of cases where unions have came in and like stopped massive problems. So it's an interesting, I don't know. People are talking about,

loves unions until his own employees try to unionize. You know what, honestly, I would just be like personally offended if my employees tried to unionize. We work really hard to be good to people. And so for them to basically say, yeah, it's not enough would be like pretty upsetting. For someone who genuinely cares, I can definitely understand how that would, I probably couldn't understand in the past, but now I can definitely understand

how that would be taken very personally. John Campbell here says, Linus, you have no clue what you're talking about here in California where I live. If not for that law that the people passed, there'd be no Uber. Is that what Uber told you? Oh, is that what they said yeah that's a good one that's a good one there'd be no uber okay sure okay uber might be more expensive

like okay yeah you know i'm not remotely yeah i don't know yeah all right yeah good luck with that uh okay we're getting into a lot of preference stuff but personally i wouldn't i wouldn't compromise like workers rights to save some company uh where some other competitor could just come in and and you know take their take their lunch yeah so brian beal says california here they basically said they'd shut down for a while and come back with my super massive price hikes well yeah okay so then someone else so be it lyft or be it another upstart company would come in and say oh actually no this this is doable, paying a fair wage, and we're going to figure it out. And then Uber would have to react. That's like how a free market economy is supposed

to work. Hey, go figure. All right. So why don't we go ahead good yeah why don't we go ahead and uh talk about our next topic here which is oh man these are kind of these are kind of yeah boring oh debt collectors debt collectors might soon be adding you on facebook uh the bureau of consumer financial protection uh so the u.s government has just ruled oh so that's the source is the bureau of consumer financial protection the u.s government has just ruled that collections agencies can send get this unlimited texts emails and even instant messages to debtors on social media platforms so what are the social media platforms gonna to say? Because I could definitely see someone just setting up like an every minute bot. Yeah, I could. I think they probably already have the bot. They've just been waiting for this to for this to be approved to roll it out. Yeah. The ruling does not require debtors to consent before being contacted by email or text.

The fact that there is no limit either means people could get flooded with calls or, well, no, either that. It means that. And the ruling particularly stings given that it happened during a recession. Oh, get this. The president of Action Collection Agencies in Boston, Jay Gonsalves, calls it a win-win

since so many people just don't answer calls anymore. So text contact could be better. Others point out it might make fraud easier since sending a crap load of emails and texts is pretty easy when you are allowed to do it by law absolutely flipping brilliant um okay someone in chat said can they hit you up on tinder that would be really fun swipe right to collect wow you can use your your built-in app payments nice paycheck you just got there mind if i take some of it oh man that's awesome all right what else we got here that is freaking i mean yeah i get it it's no different than them having the right to call you back when we had phone books i guess but it's just like how there is nothing sacred anymore like how close are we to just like ccp china at this point social credit system like like at what point do they start messaging

at what point are they allowed to message your friends to be like hey have you heard from them lately let them know i'm looking for them like when is that coming i don't know and then you know from there like at what point are they allowed to just literally go to your house and like take your tv be like all right we're even now uh i think it depends i think it depends i think that repo is mostly only for things that are directly associated with the debt. Don't quote me on that. That's something I don't know much about. So if on your credit card you bought a TV and then you didn't pay your bill, eventually I think they can take the TV.

Don't quote me on that. I don't think they can just walk in and take other stuff that you already owned. I have no clue. What else we got here? This is pretty good. swift kicking the gnats full-plane chat sorry someone in full-plane chat said i get calls from debt collectors all the time because they're looking for my brother okay well that's interesting is it possible that your brother

gave them your number i'm not saying your brother did it i'm just not saying your brother didn't do it it depends what depends what kind of relationship you got with your brother that's all i'm just not saying your brother didn't do it it depends what depends what kind of relationship you got with your brother that's all i'm saying um collateral they can take in the u.s it's a mixed bag oh geez yeah that figures you got 50 however many states 50 different sets of rules we've really run up and against this when it comes to getting our products um shipping into America. I saw quite a few people complaining about shipping on the foil pin shirt, which is limited edition and probably going to be gone pretty soon. Go get it at lttstore.com. Saw some people complaining about shipping costs. We would love to be shipping out of the US, but it is

extraordinarily complicated from a taxation standpoint. And it could put us in a position where if we have a physical location down there, all of a sudden we're paying like corporate income tax to a variety of states. And I'm looking at it going, excuse me, do I drive on your roads? Do my kids attend your schools? I don't think so. So no, I will not be paying income tax to America. I will be paying income tax to Canada, where I actually live. So that's a whole thing. So it's pretty difficult for us to get around that.

We're still working on it, but that's one of the reasons that our shipping costs are not amazing. All right, another news, a swift kick in the nets. Security researcher, Sami Kamkar, has developed a JavaScript exploit that fools routers with application layer gateway functionality, which is nearly all consumer or small office, home office

routers. So it tricks them into opening ports they otherwise shouldn't. Oh. The attack, dubbed NAT slipstreaming, allows remote attackers to reach any network-related service on a victim's PC that would not normally be accessible from behind the router, effectively bypassing the firewall. Oh. This could be set up with an automated attack where a vulnerable service is first exposed, then exploited to provide longer-term control or to inject a malicious payload. Oh. Browsers often block JavaScript from accessing services on certain ports,

so this slip streaming method bypasses that too by not making javascript do any of the actual work oh no user interaction is required oh wait a minute here's how it works oh yeah no user interaction is required wow just browsing a web page with the script is enough for the attack to work holy balls cam car demonstrated the attack working on a netgear nighthawk r7000 router with many others likely vulnerable um there's no indication anything has happened for the victim although cam car released a proof of concept and information about how it works so that it can be patched i mean the odds of like most router manufacturers patching this anytime soon especially on older

models is like slim to none very clear that netgear model thing is probably just because that's what he had yeah i wouldn't take that super personally yeah i mean i'm sure netgear is not happy about being featured in something like this but actually why i mentioned that like i i don't think i've talked to anyone from netgear potentially ever or at least in a long time but like them being called out here isn't because he found the vulnerability on that particular router necessarily. It's just probably the one that he had. Anthony notes that it seems that disabling WebRTC

and or JavaScript might work until this is patched. But today's internet relies pretty heavily on JavaScript and WebRTC for streaming media and other interactive services. So it's going to be a bit of a downer. It's going to be a bit of a downer, you know? Yeah. Jeez.

Wow. All right. And finally, friendly reminder for everyone to make sure you keep occasional backups off the network. The entire database and backups of the Brazilian Supreme Court was encrypted by hackers. An unknown group infected the network of Brazil's second highest judicial body on Tuesday, encrypting their primary database and backups as well.

Since the hack, justices have been unable to access their emails or any of the quarter million plus cases under their jurisdiction. The hack was likely made possible from vulnerabilities exposed by users remotely accessing the court's network from home using unprotected connections. There are no answers as to the origin or solution to the hack, and techs are currently working to restore data from physical backup tapes for critical cases. In 2014, hackers used a phishing attack to invade Brazil's foreign affairs ministry, internal systems, stealing cables, email lists, passwords, and data. Whoopsie daisy. Fortunately for the court, I guess, Brazil's fines on data breaches due to the recently passed LGPD privacy law

won't come into effect until 2021. So I guess they're all good. So they won't be fined brutal yeah that's pretty that's pretty rough stuff right there okay well i think that pretty much wraps it for the wan show for today luke and i have something very exciting to work on afterward i can't tell you guys about it until probably sometime next year i think when it's uh when it's released but um we're going to be working on a script and be working on a script doing some tech script stuff and it should be a good video that's all that's all i have to say about that yep agreed um orders are absolutely flooding in for holofoil pins t-shirt. So guys, if you do want to get a chance

to get it, once again, lttstore.com Holofoil. Go for it. Alright. I think that's pretty much it. We'll see you again next week. Same bad time, same bad channel. Secret Shoppers on Floatplane. Oh yeah, that too.

If you don't already have Floatplane, make sure you're over there. It will be early access on Floatplane. Oh, yeah, that too. If you don't already have Floatplane, make sure you're over there. It will be early access on Floatplane. So first episode's coming to YouTube, I think, this weekend. And the second episode is already on Floatplane. So you'll be able to catch the first two if you go sign up for Floatplane right now. Nice. Super chats? Oh, right.

Super chats. Viewer activity. here we go uh youtube people you can thank floatplane for that just saying yeah floatplane's got your back uh all right uh in secret shopper uh ilia tarasov says in secret shoppers uh to episode two you talk about the 5700 xt like it's garbage compared to an RTX 2070 Super. Have you touched it since the review cycle? Honestly, I have not personally used it since the review cycle. I do know that they've improved the stability a fair bit, and we will see how it stacks up in terms of performance when we evaluate all the systems. Gino says, I love your merch, but your support when something goes wrong isn't the best i still

not heard back about an update on my rgb keyboard shirt no one's reached out after seven messages seven messages are you the one that messaged on the forum and that i said someone would get back to you uh okay let me uh i mean uh the is that through YouTube, I have no way of fixing it. Uh, like I have no way of actually like contacting you here, but I will, I mean, I'll flag it for Nick because every time we know about a message, we reply to it. And to my knowledge, they are not behind on tickets right now at all. So, uh, hopefully you used the same name for your account for the merch store and like we're able to cross reference this somehow. But that's not a guarantee by any stretch of the imagination.

Someone in full plane chat said, uh, the support is super good. Yeah, for the most part, we don't get complaints about it. Aspermancer says, when are the gray TechLink t-shirts coming back? No time soon. Getting gray shirts until we get our own shirts made is going to be very challenging. Existential Potato says, hello Linus and Harryman I haven't seen on this channel before. Really? Or do you mean me also? I don't, I'm not sure I get the joke. Eric says, Linus really enjoyed the content. Keep it going. Great way of escaping from 2020. Oh, 2020 is still here. Um, what else we got here? DBZM1K3.

Do you think the use of nuclear waste in nano diamond batteries would ever become an accepted idea among consumers for use in devices like mobile phones or smartwatches i think anytime you use the word nuclear to describe something people assume it's like horrible and scary i think it'd be pretty tough um robert says do you think we'll be alive to see arm surpass x86 performance oh yeah yeah i wouldn't be that surprised i mean depending on the workload like in gaming that's going to take a minute but for certain applications we could very well already be there because there's more to performance than just performance there's also performance per watt performance per per cost. Yeah. Yeah. Cooper says, portable sleeper LAN center.

Use that tiny ITX case in Asterock Mobo to bifurcate two water-cooled single-slot quadros with a 5950X. Virtualize into four gaming systems. That's kind of a sick idea. Portable sleeper LAN center. You know what? I'm going to write that down. I i'm gonna write that down i'm gonna write that down right now uh video idea tracker here we go people think i'm out of ideas i got a whole like 900 line like document full of ideas some of them are terrible but i'm certainly not out of them. Siddharth says, hey, Linus and LTD team.

I've been on your channel. I've been your fan for the last seven years and respect your work and work ethic. Please add IPC metrics when reviewing CPU GPU as gigahertz metric is not the same. Well, that's what any performance chart is. Or wait, IPC metric. Well, no, it's not really very meaningful because CPUs don't really run at a fixed clock speed anymore. Depending on the load, they will run at different clock speeds.

So we don't need to know what the performance is per clock. Like it's sort of irrelevant unless you're comparing the new generation one to the old generation one that is otherwise the same. to the old generation one that is otherwise the same. That's where discussions around IPC come in. So gigahertz is just to give you an idea of how products within one lineup compare to each other. And then IPC is to compare one generation against another one. If you want to compare apples to oranges,

like AMD products versus Intel, then you must just look at actual benchmarks, actual applications. Sovediviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviviv working. And even some A320 mobiles with modded BIOSes, that does not surprise me that much. What I suspect is that... Sorry, go for it. No, go ahead. I was gonna say it was probably a mass compatibility issue. Yeah, yeah, that's exactly it. AMD probably made it incompatible because there are some cases where it won't work and they didn't want the messaging to be confusing. I know for a probable fact that that's been the reason

behind intel's moves like this in the past as well just because some of them will work doesn't mean you can guarantee that all of them will work yeah um all right i had already responded to some of these things. A Candelas says, loving the new merch recently, guys. Haven't bought so many articles of clothing in such a short amount of time. One of my purchases even came with a surprise. Sent a little heart.

Oh, is that right? How very interesting. All right. That's pretty much it for the show we'll see you again next week same bat time same bat channel bye by the way i did get your message yep i'm not sure how that got to be there. I don't know if...

Okay, so hold on a second. Let me let me end the stream real quick here first. Or should I? Yes, I should. I will end the stream.