The WAN Show - Was I WRONG About Apple M1 Silicon - WAN Show November 13 , 2020

Episode Date: November 17, 2020

If you’re looking for a directory that supports heterogeneous OSs, or you need just SSO, MDM, LDAP, MFA – or all of the above – JumpCloud will make your job easier at https://lmg.gg/l6xKk  Check out the SteelSeries Aerox 3 WIreless at https://lmg.gg/SCAerox3WL  Save 10% at Ridge Wallet with offer code LINUS at https://www.ridge.com/Linus  Check out Carpool Critics, our new movie podcast: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCt-oJR5teQIjOAxCmIQvcgA Timestamps (Courtesy of Jae Sok Surh): 00:35 - Topics 2:35 - Intro 3:30 - Apple silicon         9:08 - What Linus got wrong         12:03 - What Apple got wrong         16:14 - Luke's take         17:35 - Back to Linus         36:13 - Fanboyism - Intel vs AMD 47:40 - MOVING ON FINALLY 49:22 - Huge games 52:40 - SPONSORS feat. Linus's ms paint banners 56:19 - Luke's correction about downloading games 57:42 - Dave Lee has entered the chat (apple silicon again)         1:14:02 - TL;DR 1:16:20 - New consoles, fake videos, and other more real issues 1:18:41 - AMD's Smart Access Memory isn't AMD's 1:21:00 - Who is Dave Lee? (Dave2D) 1:21:32 - Intel tech support challenge coming up 1:23:35 - Superchats 1:31:40 - Outro Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Your teen requested a ride, but this time, not from you. It's through their Uber Teen account. It's an Uber account that allows your teen to request a ride under your supervision with live trip tracking and highly rated drivers. Add your teen to your Uber account today. welcome ladies and gentlemen to the wanshow it's gonna be a fantastic show today wanshow i love this button have we gotten you a go xlr yet no you gotta get your own swear button. I think it's my fault, though.

I think I'm supposed to go pick one up or something. Go pick one up. Go pick one up. It's worth it. It's worth it. You can have your own f***ing swear button. It's the best thing ever. All right, guys.

We got a lot of great topics for y'all today. Apple Silicon. Apple Silicon is real. It's coming. Life is wrong. It's coming. And there's been a lot of controversy a little bit of controversy about apple silicon so we're going to be talking about that for sure also in other more gaming related news a couple of next gen consoles freaking launched i was

playing around with the playstation 5 yesterday uh David, who you guys probably know best as one of our regulars on our Carpool Critics movie podcast, or as one of our camera operators, actually is taking his first crack at writing an LTT video. It started with, hey David, James and I are both tied up today. Can you go ahead and do some image quality comparisons between the Series X and the PS5? And then ended up with, David went and took the initiative and wrote an entire script for comparing the next-gen consoles.

Well, okay, we'll talk a little bit more about that later, but I am very excited to shoot that video what else we got that's cool um also tsmc is building a 3.5 billion dollar five nanometer fab in arizona very cool and user benchmark gets blasted on social media due to inaccurate cpu ranking user benchmark you're that user benchmark getting blasted is a headline topic what about youtube canceling rewind oh you don't want to talk when's the last time when's the last time you cared about a rewind you don't want to talk about youtube canceling rewind the last time you'd like to rewind i want to be in rewind andind. And if they cancel it, I will never get a chance. That's going to be one more thing Will Smith is better than me at.

Make your own Rewind. We could. We could make our. We could do Tech Rewind. But first, we're going to do Tech Fast Forward to after the intro. Boom. Legit do like a. Yeah.

What's his face? Brett did one. Uh, UFD Tech. He did one, I think, last year, wasn't it? Yeah, and it was cool. But you could, like... Way better than the regular ones. It was.

I'm not willing... See, the problem with the whole rewind thing... Oh, lordy. I, uh... Oh, well, that's a little little awkward i don't have the artwork for the sponsors uh well that's something i'll have to fix at some point it's like uh buy time for a little bit no no no we good we good we good i mean what what are sponsors pay for the show like come on nerds yeah exactly pays for shows who cares it's a it's a terrible show it's a terrible

show all right so william cli on the forums managed to be the first to create or at least one of the people who created a thread about apple silicon now i know a lot of you guys are going to be tuned in to watch me address all the things that I got wrong in my video about their new M1 silicon. But first, why don't we run through exactly what Apple announced at their event this week. Would it be great if you could avoid getting things wrong because they would talk to you about stuff? No, they wouldn't. After literally years of speculation, the announcement was made at this year's WWDC in June, and Apple has now finally unveiled three new Macs based on their M1 chip, Apple's in-house SoC.

Now, an in-house SoC from Apple is actually nothing new. They've been doing that for over 10 years. But an in-house SoC designed for anything other than a traditionally mobile device like a phone or an iPad, that is a new thing. Okay, strictly speaking, an Apple TV is not a phone or an iPad, but it's a phone or iPad. I mean, come on. All right, so the M1 is a package-on-package design that integrates multiple chips, CPU, GPU, IO, secure enclave, and a neural engine together into one stacked package with several advantages, including lower latency, smaller footprint, and simpler power delivery. So the RAM is built directly into the package now as a unified pool of memory. It's accessible by the CPU, GPU, and neural engine,

and we're hoping to see some kind of performance improvement on account of that level of memory. It's accessible by the CPU, GPU, and neural engine, and we're hoping to see some kind of performance improvement on account of that level of integration. But this has the side effect of limiting your memory options to 8 gigs or 16 gigs max with no expansion possible. Total power consumption has been estimated at 18 watts with Apple's slides showing 10 watts. Bear in mind, guys, you know, the performance per watt of a chip varies wildly depending on how close you are to the very edges of its capabilities. So depending on how Apple had it clocked, it's quite possible that it'll run at 18 watts, even though they were talking about how efficient it was at 10 watts. It's also possible that it will only run at 18 watts for short periods of time, like during a bursty load, for example. Obviously, that's the kind of stuff that until we have hands-on with

these systems, we can't really make any educated guesses about. Apple claims that the M1 is the world's fastest CPU core, but crucially omitted real world comparison points that would lend credibility to that claim. It's important to remember that ARM is very, very different from x86, so it matters a lot which workloads they're using for comparison. Even between comparatively much more similar CPU cores from AMD and Intel, some workloads prefer one design over another. Like you can have, I mean, it's something I've been asked, if I had a dollar for every time someone asked me, you know, why is AMD only clocked at, you know, 4.2 gigahertz and Intel is clocked at 4.9 gigahertz and the AMD one is just

as fast? Because they're not the same thing they execute the same code sort of yeah sort of but they're not the same thing architecturally they are very very different i mean going back to when i was first getting into this stuff you know one of the biggest revolutionary changes that's happened with x86 in the time that I've been an enthusiast was integrating the memory controller onto the CPU die. What it did was it drastically lowered memory latency in a way that had an enormous impact on performance. They were both still x86 chips, but one of them was just way faster. So it's absolutely possible that Apple's chips are, you know, freaking incredible. But what we don't know is while doing what. So for example, media encode and decode is handled

via hardware blocks in Apple Silicon, while previous Macs relied on software. The result is more speed and better efficiency for Apple Silicon, but this has actually nothing to do whatsoever with the CPU core itself. Anandtech, though, is under the impression that it will live up to Apple's claims, and the first three M1 Macs are going to be the MacBook Air for $999. It's fanless, so I'd be surprised if that one goes over that 10 watts that Apple was talking about, a 400-nit display, headphone jack, and 18-hour battery. The MacBook Pro at $1,300 with a 500-nit P3 display, touch bar, headphone jack and 20-hour battery, and the Mac Mini for $700

with no internal expansion, no 10-gig Ethernet option. And none of the new Macs seem to offer any differentiation between their M1 implementations and all have a maximum of two Thunderbolt slash USB 4.0 ports and it's sort of a little bit of a question mark right now what exactly they mean by Thunderbolt and why exactly it would be that these thunderbolt ports do not support external gpus because an external gpu is pretty much just connected via pci express which is what is the underlying technology for thunderbolt so why exactly it is that it wouldn't support external gpus is not clear we've ordered all, so get subscribed so you don't miss our coverage. Let's talk about the things I got wrong here, though.

What did you get wrong, Linus? I can't think of anything. In the video, I said... You said it was an ipad it is an ipad no you said you said the the chip is an ipad okay did i did i specifically word it that way that that is probably that is probably possible no i no that's not the way i worded it no i'm just i'm i said that i said that the new machines were ipads without a touchscreen, iPads with a touch bar, and then iPad with no touchscreen or touch bar or something like that. I don't know what to throw at you.

So I was just, if Twitch chat or float plane chat gives me something, I'll challenge them. But I don't, I have not been able to figure it out. So what I didn't do was take Apple at face value. There are a couple of things that probably are valid criticisms of the video. I was a little bit snarky because, and you know, I'll own this, because it tends to put me in a bad mood when brands get out on stage and make vague and unsubstantiated claims. And that really is what Apple did. Apple went and launched a product

with a lot of unlabeled graphs and a lot of very, very, well, how do I put this? A lot of very optimistic claims about this product without really in my mind addressing some of what I expect to be very real problems for early adopters. Because the reality of it is, if I'm expected to review this product today, I have to evaluate it the way that it is today. And so in my mind, Apple was pretty

disingenuous about the way that they presented, not necessarily the M1 silicon, but the products that they are equipping with it. I, yeah, I don't really know what else to say about it other than this is a clear downgrade in some obvious ways while offering hopefully an upgrade based on unlabeled graphs another thing that we could have gotten We could have gotten right if we had waited longer to make the video was we were really frustrated that Apple didn't get specific about the Comparison systems that they were using and I've been oh hold on a second and I've been, oh, hold on a second.

Riley knows how to get in touch with me. All right, and I've been informed that Apple has actually added more information to the bottom of the webpage for the new M1 processor about what systems were used for comparison. The problem though is that it's still not very specific. So during the presentation, that information wasn't available, wasn't made immediately obvious.

And then yes, it was added later to a product page, which we didn't see, because this was a video that we rushed out because we were reacting to the announcement. But it's still not very specific. It still just says stuff like Core i3. Like, okay, there's a lot of Core i3 processors out there. It would be really nice if, like a company that's confident in their product, you just came out and said, it's a Core i3. Here's the model number.

It was integrated in this particular laptop because that's actually really important for mobile products because you can have the exact same Core i3 configured to different TDPs with very different performance characteristics. So when I titled the video, that's the last thing that I probably got wrong. When I titled the video, I probably shouldn't have used the word dumpster fire. I thought it was obvious that I was evaluating Apple's event. In fact, that is the title of the video, which I have not altered. I think it's Apple M1 Silicon announcement, a slow motion dumpster fire,

because there's a lot of stuff that was wrong about the way that they did that. There are some other problems that I have too. People who are defending the move to Apple Silicon and the M1, and in particular the new Mac, seem to be under the impression that I think it's horrible. I said right at the end of the video, I think this is going to end up good. But what I also said is, I think that these first products are going to end up abandoned, much like the Apple Watch Series Zero, which they didn't even merit a proper name. They literally referred to it as Series Zero.

You were literally a beta tester, which is what I said in my review of it. Like, sorry, not sorry. Looks like I was right. And then the same thing that happened to the iPad, which got something like two generations of iOS less support than any other full-sized iPad. And it actually got, I think, three or four generations of less iOS support compared to the iPad 2. Like, Apple has a history of doing this. Why are we pretending that they don't? I never said that it's going to be slow. I never said that they're not going to succeed in this transition. A lot of the things

that I'm sort of being accused of, like hating Apple or whatever, didn't happen. I just do not appreciate nonsense in keynotes and I don't appreciate paying to beta test products. I don't like it from Apple and I wouldn't like it from anyone and nobody should. Why are we accepting these clear compromises? People are giving me a really hard time. I saw quite a few comments. What are you talking about? There's no memory expansion. That hasn't been a thing on MacBooks for ages. Apple announced three products. One of them was a Mac Mini. The last generation Mac Mini has SODIMM slots. You can upgrade your memory in the Mac Mini. You can also have 10 gig networking. Why doesn't Apple have the option for 10 gig networking? I am a Mac Mini customer. I literally own three Mac minis for work.

And the reason I bought them was because they were actually very compelling little machines. I didn't need them to perform great over a long period of time. Didn't care if they thermal throttled. They had good networking at an affordable price. And they run macOS, which we needed for some tool that we were using for ingesting footage. So it's like, I am actually a customer for this product. And I am looking at this new generation product going, oh, you managed to derp it.

Good job. Maybe it has a fast CPU or whatever that like hopefully works in a broad range of applications, except, oh, oops, freaking Photoshop isn't ready for at least a couple of months photoshop's not ready is it really that crazy for me to come out and say apple rushed this thing all right i've talked for a long time i'm so sorry luke you might have even tuned out by this point but what's your take people think i have resting angry person face by the way i was reading stuff and trying to

watch a video which was uh one of uh jonathan morrison's responses to your video on twitter and i i look over to the flow plane chat everyone's like are you okay why is he so mad i'm like i'm just watching a video and i'm not even like mad about the video. I like everything's fine. Yeah, I don't know. I think Jonathan Morrison's example was interesting. It's interesting, but irrelevant. I mean, it's a completely apples to oranges comparison. You're looking at fixed function hardware versus like software encoding.

Hey, Luke, you know a thing or two about encoding. You want to explain to us why comparing that sort of thing versus like software encoding. Hey, Luke, you know a thing or two about encoding. You want to explain to us why comparing that sort of thing doesn't make a ton of sense? Yeah, it's... It's totally different jobs. It's not like you're asking for completely different stuff

to do completely different things. And like, honestly, for a lot of users, I can understand why that would be interesting. Sure. Because they don't care about that. They care about how long it takes to output the video. Absolutely. And what Apple did is great for mobile users

who are recording a video on their phone and then want to upload it to YouTube or a social media platform or whatever the case may be. It's perfect for that. The problem is that you can't build fixed function hardware to address every rando edge case that you would encounter on a desktop or a laptop or in a desktop or laptop environment.

You know, today was a perfect example. I'm working on a project that I can't really talk about. It's not my project. It's someone else's project. So I really can't give you guys any details. But there's a lot of people collaborating from different locations because coronavirus and the people who are working on this project are going to get a lot of different kinds of footage encoded at different resolutions and different bit rates. They're going to be combining them all into one timeline. And I pretty much guarantee you that Apple is not going to be able to build in the fixed function,

decode and encode hardware for all of these different things. And that's, yeah, that's one of the disadvantages of a more generalized architecture. Yup, that's a disadvantage. But, or rather, that's one of the advantages is that it's not as fast. That's the disadvantage when the conditions are right, but it can handle pretty much anything. So someone in the Fliplane chat said, I mean mean i'm going to change their wording slightly but um says a person who loves intel quicksync quicksync is cool i wouldn't describe myself as a person who loves intel quicksync there's a time and a place for it when you want to do a

quick and dirty encode quicksync is awesome. Like for example, what was I trying to do a little while ago? I don't remember. There was some reason. Okay, this wasn't a little while ago. Wow, this would have been a long time ago. There was some reason that I was trying to encode a bunch of seasons of a show that I had ripped from Blu-ray. And I wanted to copy them onto a phone.

And this was before I was using Plex so I had to do this manually so I got some tool that supported QuickSync and I used it to make like 480p copies of all the episodes and it ran many times faster than using CPU and code that was an example of a time that QuickSync was flipping awesome the quality not as good but boy was it ever done fast and given that I was going to be watching it on a phone, I didn't care. And that's an example of a time that a mob that's, or that's an illustration of what I mean by a fixed function hardware being great for like a mobile optimized experience, but not necessarily the best thing for desktop or laptop. I'm not saying it's bad.

In fact, I never said in the video, I never said it was going to be bad. I just said, this is a lot of nonsense. This is a lot of hand-waving without any substance, and I don't like that, and we're going to have to wait until we get the product. like that and we're gonna have to wait until we get the product are you muted are you just not talking one sec oh okay all right so you know abdul muiz says linus can't wait for you to take back your words what words would i take back? That was my point earlier. Check disk. I didn't check what, sorry?

Check discord really quick. Oh, sure. Yeah. I didn't actually say that it was bad. I tend to lean towards skepticism whenever I am not given concrete data. That is my tendency. And it also speaks a lot, in my mind, to the confidence that a brand has about their new product. It tends to be that when they get really specific, I mean, a perfect example of this is NVIDIA when they launched their RTX 3000 series. They got real specific about what was good about these things and why they were going to be the absolute harbinger of embarrassment for poor AMD Radeon who hadn't managed to release a decent graphics card in forever. It just exudes confidence. Another perfect example of this is

AMD's Ryzen 5000. I mean, they were putting information out about these things, what, like a month before launch? When you think there is any chance whatsoever that your competition has anything on you, you keep your cards real close to your chest. And when you think that there's a chance that what you're releasing just, quite frankly, ain't that good, you get real vague in your launch materials. It's a pattern that I've seen time and time and time again. So when I see it, I go, oh, not this again.

All right, well, let's see how it goes. And I find it very frustrating. Yeah, I'm not super nose to the ground on this, but I think it will make a lot more sense for people to be critical about it. Like, I don't know, later, if that makes sense. So what I'll be doing is I'll be, it's realistically, it's going to be Anthony who's going to go through and evaluate the M1 silicon component of all of this. He's far more familiar with the macOS environment.

In fact, he's been writing, I think basically all of our Mac content for the better part of the last couple of years. And then as for mobile, I mean, this is kind of a funny thing because like Riley's been the guy when it comes to iPad in particular. Like he was the one who, you know, really, really pushed for doing more content, particularly around the iPad Pro as a laptop. That's another really funny thing is that

just because I called the new MacBook Air an iPad doesn't necessarily mean that I don't think that's good. It's just that it's an iPad. The iPad Pro is actually really sick. And we made a video talking about the use, the argument to be made for the iPad Pro as a laptop. We came away with very positive impressions of it. So all this is, is an iPad Pro that has the keyboard pre-attached and doesn't have a touchscreen.

A lot of people seem to interpret my tone, which, yeah, arguably probably could have been more positive, but I was in a pretty irate mood because of the way that Apple was sort of being vague and Apple about it. Um, I think a lot of people basically took my words and twisted them into something that they were not. I said, yeah, it's an iPad. And it fundamentally is, it's an iPad with a higher thermal target. Um, and that's fine. We already said that's a pretty good experience so and higher thermal targets can take a lot or can change a lot sorry absolutely as we've seen in the past some of these devices are like pretty significantly throttled sometimes not always especially with modern processors that do a really good job of balancing their power and turboing up, you know, one or even just, or two or even just one core to get things done in a really snappy fashion.

Absolutely. All right. So I guess that's pretty much all I have to say about that. Let's see if anyone's, anyone in floatplane is looking at that. Yeah. Okay. Nothing else to really say about it i'm really looking forward to checking them out i'm i'm hoping for the best but i think that it's going to be very very difficult to recommend these things right out of the gate that's just all there is to it um it's the kind of thing that i almost wonder if we need to review twice and to be fair um this is another one where like i think people might uh grab what you just said and pull more out of it than there than there might be uh because you almost recommend nothing

right out of the gate well yeah it's it's tough i said forever wait for wait for proper reviews which there aren't yet yeah but there can't be a proper review of something that's like not done and for another one wait for user reviews so it's really tough right now like apple's in a apple's in a you know i i don't feel too bad for them i mean mean, this is absolutely their own situation they've created. But they're in a bit of a tough transition period right now. I mean, our review of the most recent iMac was very similar to what I think we're going to end up with, with the first Apple Silicon Macs, where we basically said, well, it's the best iMac that you shouldn't buy.

said, well, it's the best iMac that you shouldn't buy. And we didn't say you shouldn't buy it because the performance is bad or the screen's bad or really anything. I mean, we did criticize the fact that the design is like, how many years old is that shell at this point? I can't remember. It's like really old. The bezels are not looking very 2020 or even like 2018 at this point. So we did criticize that, but we said, look, the reason you shouldn't buy it is because we just don't know what's going to happen. We don't know how long it's going to get support in future macOS updates.

We don't know what performance is going to look like for the inevitable replacements. And we're going to have to say the same thing here. If it was me for my specific use case, which is where I want 10 gig networking in a nice compact machine that runs macOS, I'd be scooping up Intel-based ones right and left to make sure that I don't freaking run out of them

because Apple has clearly no replacement for my use case at all. And if your use case happens to be that you, you know, shoot short films on your iPhone and you just want a, like a laptop to edit them on and then you upload them to YouTube or whatever, Apple Silicon might be freaking perfect for you. If you're a developer, however, and you rely on, let's say for example, virtual hardware virtualization support, I haven't actually seen Apple address that yet. Does the M1 support virtualization at all?

I'm actually asking that question. I legitimately don't know. Here we go. Parallels desktop, virtualization features that are brought to the Mac with the Apple. Linux virtual machine flawlessly on Apple Silicon. Okay. Let's see how performance is in a VM though.

So then would the Photoshop thing be as big of a deal? It depends. a vm though so then would the photoshop thing be as big of a deal it depends like what what uh what some other people have been bringing up yeah is that you could just run it in rosetta so then it should be significantly faster there let's hope so let's hope so but we don't know we can't know until we try it um yeah we can't know until we try it actually i do have one more thing to say about this it's also been very interesting seeing people pull up geekbench as though it's like the be-all and end-all of performance benchmarks to indisputably prove that apple m1 silicon is the best thing it's like okay you know why we don't use geekbench in our reviews like unless we're working with a mac or trying to do a cross-platform comparison

do you have any idea why we don't do that luke luke buehler no buehler actually anyone because it's not a very good benchmark i assumed it's just not particularly meaningful it doesn't run for very long so it doesn't tell you anything about thermal throttling um it's it's very synthetic you know it's not something that we would consider to be real world um we don't use it because it sucks so So yeah, the thing is on the PC, you have tons of other benchmarking applications available to you that unfortunately are not Mac compatible because in a lot of cases, those workloads,

like whether they're CAD or scientific ones or whatever the case may be, have just been, well, they've completely abandoned the Mac because Apple went so flipping long without making a decent Mac for these people. Brandon is sending me a video right now. This is interesting. Okay. So anyway, so Geekbench. Geekbench is interesting. It's a data point, but it is not the be all and end all. And so we don't put too much stock in it. And that has always been the case.

The last thing is, oh, and Linus is an Apple hater. Don't listen to him because he's an Apple hater. I don't hate anything. And it's really interesting seeing those, seeing those conversation threads go back and forth because someone will say, you know, oh, don't, don't listen to this guy. He's an Apple hater. And someone else will say, well, don't listen to this guy. He's an Apple hater. And someone else will say, well, what about this very positive review he gave to Apple product X, Y, or Z? And the person will basically just go like, well, then he's like, he's turned. He's turned. You don't turn.

I'm actually surprisingly consistent if you go back i praise apple when they do things that i like like putting proper cooling in their products or uh including features that i think are really important for a long time it was hilarious watching you know people who were on Mac, especially back in the trash can days. So watching people who are on Mac just be moving footage around using like these Thunderbolt storage enclosures.

And I'm looking at it going like, what are you mad? That's like the craziest thing ever. 10 gig networking is, it's attainable today. It can be shared. You can have your whole group working off of the same repository of data and it's all organized. And then you can easily back it up from one place and they've got all these dongles and external drives hanging everywhere.

Even at professional production houses I visited, I was like, what are you guys doing? You're using like Thunderbolt? What are you, nuts? And so when Apple does things that I think are good, like adding 10 gig networking to the iPad Pro and to the Mac mini, I was like, good job, Apple. What I'm consistent about is the things that I like and I think are good, like high-speed networking connectivity

and properly cooling devices. And that might not be the same as other people, because I can assume quite a few people out there didn't give a damn about 10 gig networking. 100%. 100%. And power to them. But it's not that I hate Apple. I just hate some of the things that they do. And I think they're bad. And it's much the same with pretty much anyone. If they do something I think is bad, I'm not going to like it. There was a particularly good one where someone said like, he's just like an NVIDIA, an NVIDIA shill. He never criticizes NVIDIA. It's like, really? Are you serious? We're not sure if anybody cared about it because it's more like in the weeds

on like the business end of things. But we got into NVIDIA's anti-competitive behavior with their partners, which is something almost nobody else is talking about when we reviewed the RTX 3070 because it's not good for the industry. And when we see things that are not good for the industry, we're going to call them out. It doesn't matter if you're Apple or Nvidia or whoever the case may be. All right. Yeah, I was gonna say, I don't think Nvidia would agree with you being in an Nvidia shill. I don't think they would feel that way. In my search for negative responses to that video. Yeah. One of the things I did was check the comments on it. Because that's usually a good

way to find stuff and i actually didn't find much it seems mostly isolated to a couple video responses in twitter um but one response that i found that i thought was um quite funny oh i've lost it now no oh here it is um someone named radion but not spelt the way that amd radion is spelt yeah it says linus apple is so far behind internet explorer our battle shall be legendary i enjoyed that that was pretty good all right okay do you get it um no what is it so far behind that the only thing they can like fight with right now is internet explorer because internet explorer is so far behind oh lordy well internet explorer is just dead so there's that it's not exactly true of apple and i mean they're they're doing great in in certain ways they're just not adapting to certain other things i don't know apple leads

stuff a lot like when you see the the headphone jack go away and like everyone laughs at them and then immediately afterwards rips it off of every device they possibly can like yeah i don't know display notches are another perfect example of that it's like you hate apple because you criticize the notch no i criticize the notch everywhere No, I criticize the notch everywhere. And I particularly criticize Apple because it's their bloody fault that the entire industry started thinking it was acceptable to put chunks in hanging out of there to bite chunks out of displays. I criticized Samsung for it.

I criticized OnePlus for it. I would criticize anyone who releases a display that has a notch for it. I criticized OnePlus for it. I would criticize anyone who releases a display that has a notch in it. I think it's stupid. What do you want from me? That has nothing to do with Apple. That has to do with Apple doing something boneheaded and me being frustrated

because the entire rest of the industry can't have a single unique thought for themselves and they just do whatever apple does yep it's been happening for years um kadu suza says linus isn't a shill for anyone he is an intel fanboy though so how would you what would make you say that someone is an intel fanboy am i an Intel fanboy because I've used almost exclusively Intel for the last 10 years or so? Or am I just someone who knows how to evaluate if something performs well and used Intel because I could afford it? Because newsflash, I'm now running AMD in my personal system. I'm now running AMD in my main server that is the backbone of our entire business at work,

AMD Epic. Do you need a stronger endorsement for AMD out of me? Like other than, oh, I'm running AMD in my home theater rig, which is also my VR gaming rig. Like at what point does the evidence pile up and you just have to kind of discard your hypothesis well how far do we have to go wrong i i i think that comment just got it wrong you're you're clearly in an amd show

see that's the funny one that's the funny one where you get accused of just like switching your shilling allegiance like no you shouldn't be in everything clearly you're a shill you shouldn't have allegiance to any company because newsflash they don't care about you at all i'm sorry that's just the way it is get this get this you know how amd positioned themselves i didn't even talk about this. I should have. I should have. Anthony didn't have it in his script and I was gonna like talk to him about it and be like, we should probably put this in. But I was like, ah, forget it.

No, it's not that important. But maybe I should have talked about it. AMD sort of positioned themselves as like a scrappy pro-consumer, you know, brand. They made this image for themselves. Yeah, we've got FreeSync. It's like free. Yeah. NVIDIA, they're bad. G-Sync. The truth of the matter is that AMD just didn't have the resources to build an ecosystem. So they relied on sort of supporting this more, see the thing is FreeSync is not technically the same thing as what we ultimately got, which was variable refresh rate.

FreeSync was a proprietary implementation of an open, of an open technology so it was like sort of open but like also not quite and it also didn't work as well so what nvidia did was they went and they they went and they invented something and amd went yep it's it's half-baked but it's free we did a good job go amd um like that's the kind of thing amd does and as soon as amd gets on top and i've already said it before but i guess i'll say it again as soon as amd gets on top expect their behavior to change because they are still a company and they are still trying to make money that is their top priority as a company because without it they will not survive and they almost didn't and then there are so many people at amd that remember how hard it is to survive if you didn't and there are so many people at AMD that remember how hard

it is to survive if you don't make any money so what did AMD do as soon as they had a performance lead they raised their prices what a surprise because you guys got to remember and there's almost no one that I know who still remains from back in those days. But Intel didn't start the Extreme Edition crap. That wasn't Intel. That was AMD. AMD started it with the FX51. So you can go like, oh, AMD, good guy. Intel, bad guy.

But they both just want your money. And there are people at both of these companies, all of these companies, there are people that legitimately care, people that care about the consumer, people that will actually see a concern in a tweet or in an email and go, wow, I need to fix this because people's experience using these products matters to me. And I take pride in my work. But as an organization, you can't make any such assumption. It's just ridiculous. Mohamed says, show them your Apple Watch.

I wear this because I hate every Android wearable and I wear it just to be a troll. I'm literally an Apple customer. I sent you a bunch of the branding and marketing that was used for a little while there for AMD. I found this to be kind of insane. uh for a little while there for amd i found this to be kind of insane uh and they they actually at pax they actually had people walking around yeah with these protest signs uh with like different chants and stuff as if they were actually like staging a protest um join the join the uh you have dragged a url is this even gonna work let's see if this works hey there you go join the radion rebellion you should be able to just click on them and then click open original it should

open in your browser control your own performance better read silence us as if they're being like thought controlled or like there's no free speech free our async yeah sure vr is not just for the one percent join the radion rebellion no more rules control your own performance do you guys imagine for a second that like the marketing suits that come up with these campaigns are any different from the marketing suits at intel or apple who come up with these campaigns and slogans they might know more about their own hardware it's just a brand it's just a brand sorry i had to take that shot all right so i think i've exhausted everything that i have to say about that whole thing it it is what it is and we'll we'll see how it goes i think these first gen ones are are probably going to be quickly forgotten.

And I think Apple probably knows it. They've done it before and they'll, who knows, they'll probably do it again. No, I have one more thing to say. And that's not just me like hating on Apple and saying a first gen Apple product is bad. As a general rule, if it's for real work, I tend to avoid first-gen products. We almost always run a generation behind for our editing workstations at work. It's not that we don't need the performance. We've been running 8k footage for a long time now. We're moving to 12k very soon. We definitely need the

performance, but what we don't like is dealing with early teething issues and nobody is immune to them, including Apple. They've had examples of great product launches. AirPods was a perfect example. AirPods Pros, there is no doubt whatsoever that I am an AirPods Pro evangelist. I freaking love these things. I use them literally every single day. Even when I don't listen to music, I use my AirPods Pros because the noise cancellation is freaking fantastic. I just use it so that I can focus. Like these things have changed my life

and I've gotten messages from other people telling me the same thing. I got this wonderful message from someone saying, Linus, you know, I'm not really an Apple kind of guy and you shouldn't be an anything kind of guy or anything not kind of guy you should keep an open mind is what you should do but that's not what the message said the message said look i'm not really an apple kind of guy but based on your excellent review of the airpods pros i bought them and i am the type of person who tends to get

overloaded in sort of overwhelming environments, like a sensory overload type of person. I don't remember if they actually used a word like Asperger's or autism, but you could tell they were trying to say in their own way that they were somewhere on the spectrum, and they had a really hard time in loud and overwhelming situations with crowds and lots of people. And they were just like, buying AirPods Pros based on your recommendation, talking about using them this way, changed my life.

It reduced my anxiety. It made it so that when I'm out in public places, like in the mall, I can actually enjoy them now because the way that I use them a lot of the time is I'll have the noise cancellation active even when I'm conducting a conversation with someone because what it does is some people tend to be like too loud,

like particularly my kids. I will be at home with my AirPods Pros in, with my noise cancellation active because honestly, sometimes I've just had a long day and it takes the edge off. And it's nice. Same thing out in public public i've even used them uh in situations like where there's very loud music playing like in a like in a um like a live

music venue even certain restaurants and stuff make it like difficult to talk to each other so because it's so loud the bottom of the line is you can love a product but you should never love a company because they will use that love and they will you so i uh i have a very similar apple story really um where i i have like kind of weird ears and like most in-ear headphones don't stay in my freaking ears oh Oh, that's true. I remember that. The old mobile Apple headphones that were corded were like the only like wired individual. Why can't the earbuds? They were the only earbuds that I could actually like use

because the in-ears would always fall out and those were shaped more to the actual ear so it would hold on better. And I loved those. and then i got a pixel 2 no headphone jack and i'm like well i'm screwed now but i just got airpods not pros pros i don't know but they probably wouldn't they're pretty great uh but they probably wouldn't work for me right because your canal issue yep but i got airpods in general and they're freaking awesome i love them i use them all the time.

They're great. Vexorian has a super chat in here. I've heard Apple makes Chromebooks now. You can't run real apps, so they run mobile apps. You know what? That's a good point, sort of. So because Apple has the clout to work with developers and get real apps developed for the M1 chip,

I'm not expecting it to be quite that bad or take quite that long to transition, but it also is a valid criticism of what Apple's doing here that I have been very consistent about. I have consistently said, oh, Chromebooks, well, they're nice as long as everything you do is in a web browser

and you don't ever need to like do something unexpected. You know, there's all kinds of just like random applications that I will run in my not daily life, but certainly in my in my yearly life and just outright not being able to do it is a bummer. That's something that I hope that I hope Apple handles well with Rosetta 2. So no, they're not as bad as Chromebooks, but they could have some of the growing pains of Chromebooks, which is something, again, that I have been completely consistent about. I didn't like it when Google did it, and now I'm going to be skeptical when Apple does it. Nothing wrong with it. All right, let's move on let's talk about the playstation freaking five and the xbox sponsor spot series you want to do a sponsor spot you might want to oh what the hell

have we been talking about this for we've been talking about this for 40 minutes oh no okay um well that's problematic we got a big problem today, Luke. We got a problem. Can I tell you about my problem? Yes. My problem is that I didn't copy over the assets for the sponsor spots. Okay. I can do something. Do you want me to do something? Yeah. Do you want to do a topic that doesn't involve me real quick? I mean, these are all great topics.

There is some great topics. I'm going to steal one of them, but I'll leave the other ones so the new consoles have launched that's exciting that's fun there's some issues with both the xbox and the ps5 which i will wait to discuss until linus can jump on them no i'm just gonna come right back i have no way to fix this my work machine is down because my office is torn apart and being used as a set right now can someone email it to you that has access? It's after work hours. I tend not to like to bother people. So what I'm going to do is I'm just going to... Are we going to make paper signs?

I'm going to... Who do you paint? I'm MS Painting it. I'm MS Painting it. So here we go, ladies and gentlemen. You should let people see the creation process. I got to... No, because I don't know what i got on my screen

right now i'm just gonna i got you know i got i got the you know early early versions of some of my only fans content that i'll be uploading soon i don't want people to see them before i photoshop off all of my thigh pimples and stuff like that yeah good call good call gotta get those thigh pimples um okay so what i'm gonna jump into first however is that there's a new data usage record in the uk that kind of coincides with the console launch um some of these games are freaking huge people have been memeing about how big uh modern warfare is for a long time but it sounds like even if you had the disc there was 65 gigabytes of updates um once you 65 gigs of updates and call of duty black ops cold war the preload for it is 130 gigabytes destiny 2 is 65 gigabytes assassin's

creed valhalla is 60 gigabytes so if you had you, four games that you wanted to download, and they happened to be those, and one of them was only an update, you're looking at a lot of bandwidth. So the traffic on provider BT peaked at 18 terabits per second. Their previous record was 17.5, which apparently coincided with the war zone season 4 launch and it is 30 higher than average just because of people downloading games maybe we're not ready for an entirely diskless future yet luke i mean do you ever consider that like dang that's freaking crazy i mean and i i will i will fall back i have been pointing this out for a long time you and your physical discs you nerd you nerd they have no starlink starlink's gonna save us all we're gonna download we're gonna download games on starlink as long as long as

there's only a few of you in that area yeah exactly if you're like by yourself way in the middle of nowhere yeah it's gonna be great um i'm actually really excited for starlink but anyways uh yeah like it's you could very well if you bought one of these new consoles and you didn't have discs and you were downloading games that you already owned yeah you should be able to do that you could be waiting a week easy like easy and you could be data capped yep like to the point where you might have to just stop downloading your games and just wait until next month to keep downloading them it's rancid luke maybe we'll get maybe we'll get um like libraries we'll start stocking like install discs for okay glass half full glass half full okay ready luke glass half full there's not that many exclusive launch titles for the new

consoles anyway right but so you don't have to buy that many games okay sure you don't have to buy that many games but you're probably not leaving your old console plugged in and playing off of it you got your new shiny toy yeah that's true remove the old shiny toy re-download the stuff that you want to play it's not necessarily even buying new content because yeah i mean the list of games that i just said two old games one game that isn't released yet and only one game that just came out um but like there if you were playing call of duty modern warfare on your old console and you got the new console and you're all excited about black ops coming out you're probably going to download the current modern warfare well you're going to try it might take you a bit just like it took me a bit to make these amazing sponsor lower thirds. First up is a new sponsor, JumpCloud.

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Also, are you, is that all the sponsored spots? That's it. That's all. Okay. I learned something. What'd you learn? While you were doing those. I was, I was a little bit wrong.

Potentially. I don't remember exactly how i worded it but i'll better make an apology video here it comes ladies and gentlemen luke's first apology video and here's the white doors um so i uh thanks for that uh apparently i i was i was talking about how like you'd have to download your your old games right yes apparently you can data transfer over wi-fi and is it the same game i guess there'd be a lot of shared assets that's pretty cool and you can transfer your save files that way too over lan again so it doesn't have to like cloud sync stuff like that you can transfer your your

your games and their saves over wi-fi it seems with both of them i haven't looked into uh like exact feature parity across the board, but I know with the Xbox, again, PlayStation might be able to do this, I don't know. But with the Xbox, if you can't have them both plugged in and on Wi-Fi at the same time for some reason or something, you could use an external hard drive and you can back the stuff up onto the external hard drive and then load it onto the Series X with the external hard drive so there is there is multiple ways to do that and i would highly recommend that you do that instead of trying to download all of those things that is a much better way of doing it and i'm very happy that both consoles support at least some form of doing that

okay hold on a second we might have one dave lee hanging around in our chat here what is mr dave lee doing in the chat sorry if i said wi-fi cable it's late it's late where you're from sir i think maybe you should go get some sleep mr dave lee is he here to roast you about about apple stuff he wants me to 1v1 him rust oh dude i can't uh i i don't know if i can uh i don't know if i can turn down a 1v1 me rust request unfortunately unless i was hallucinating i'm pretty sure uh mr dave lee and i played apex a while back and that was actually super fun i am uh i am i unfortunately appear to have misplaced his phone number which is a little bit embarrassing uh so dave if you still have mine feel free to give me a call you want to talk you want to talk m1 on the wan show i think people

haven't had enough of it by this point actually jk they probably have but i'm i'm down i'm down dude i'd love to i'd love to hear yeah i think that would be that would be awesome i'm down dude uh why don't we talk about the consoles in the meantime because i'm actually not sure if oh you know what oh i do have him uh i do have him here all right all right i should also be able to exchange information on on twitter yeah that's that's what that's what occurred to me and i just confirmed i do in fact have him on origin so i must not have been hallucinating we must have actually done that all right that was fun um so oh never mind oh we got a call from toronto ontario canada i i heard those guys i heard they think they're the center of the universe, but they didn't

realize that that's actually New York. They're just like, discount, discount, New York. Hey, dude. Alright, how you doing there, bud? I'm good. I've never actually watched your WAN show live. I've seen it

recorded a few times, but and there but i've never actually clicked on a live show before so you come you come right on my show and you disrespect me like that right out of the gate you know what i should have known this was coming i should have known this was coming the west is always forgotten by you people oh my god yeah i didn't watch the show until the very tail end of it like i think uh john he tweeted it that that you're doing the show live, and I was like, man, I gotta see what he's gotta say about M1.

I missed it, though. I'll be serious. If there's anything you said, I need, like, a five-second recap. All right, all right. Do you hate it, or do you like it? I don't anything it. It's not out.

Oh. Oh, so you think it's actually not out. Okay. If I don't have it in my hands if it's not it's not out okay okay it's not out okay so i think i think the review embargoes go up next week but i'm surprised that you don't see the i mean okay look i guess you don't love apple stuff i i feel you there. Okay, hold on a second. Hold on, because I covered this earlier.

What don't I love about Apple stuff? Do you know that I daily drive Apple products? Okay, A, I think the big one for both of us, is their lack of right to repair or the elements of that. That stuff sucks. It does. Either pricing. I don't even think the pricing is that bad

but you don't hate and they they fight against right i don't love their pricing let's be real here well hold on a second i how did how did you just flip the script on me because here i am defending apple the iphone se is a compelling product and let's look at the smartwatch market okay the new smartwatch the new sc smartwatch is basically no compromises as long as you're one of those people who doesn't believe that an apple watch should be a watch first and foremost and that it's okay for it to not have an always-on display compared to any android device it's it's a way better value sure so in 2020 they brought out like two good products two reasonably priced products i would

agree with you there but for the vast majority of their of their company history they've just been pretty expensive what competes with airpods pro i mean you got sennheiser they're even more expensive no i'm talking with active noise cancellation that is actually good and doesn't put a bunch of pressure on your eardrums then i I would say no, but I'm not, I'm not a silicone tip guy. I like hard tip and there's so many good hard tip earbuds out there. That's fair. That's fair. Anyway, you were saying that I, I don't love Apple.

Okay. The only thing I, the only thing I saw was your, was your, uh, what's it called? The, the regular video, not the beginning of the show. I watched a few minutes of your M1 preview or kind of early thoughts on it. Sure.

Do you feel like you don't believe in it? I don't believe in ****. That's why I don't believe in it. I don't believe in unlabeled graphs. Yeah, but everybody does it. No, they don't. They actually do not.

No, come on, nothing. They actually don't. They actually don't. I'm serious, Dave. Do you watch NVIDIA keynotes? I do. But if you looked at Apple's graphs, if you looked at the fine print, they did actually label this CPU.

Later. Was it later? Yes, it was. But I went on their website and I was like, this was actually, they specified the specific CPU. Yes, later. And a lot of those quote-unquote specific CPUs just say like Core i3. They don't say the actual model and they don't specify what device it's actually installed in, which matters a lot. If there's anything Apple's taught us over the years, it's that a poor thermal solution can really hamper the performance of a given chip.

Okay. I agree with you there. Listen, I'm just saying that they delivered, there was like confidence in their delivery. I genuinely think that this is going to be a legitimate, like it's going to be a thing for them. Okay, you're about to get wrecked because Apple also confidently delivered unapologetic plastic. Unapologetic, what plastic? Unapologetically plastic. Unapologetically plastic was the original iphone se that's what their phrasing was dude do you even cover apple

unapologetically plastic that was how johnny ive described the iphone se unapologetically plastic or whatever his accent sounds like. I don't remember. It was hilarious. It was so bad. Apple sells anything, no matter how bad it is. Like it's the best thing since sliced bread. And what I get frustrated with is them being even more vague than usual.

They were even more vague than usual. They were even more vague than usual and people just ate it up. No, vagueness should not be accepted. Okay. I think that the reason why I think their angle on this... Sorry, 5C, not the original SC. Sorry, 5C. Oh, the 5C. Yeah, my bad, my bad. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. I okay i was like the sc was plastic i didn't realize it was he talking about the front okay no no sc's great the reason why i think they went on a on a bizarre angle on this in terms of like how they pitched the performance especially for someone like you who's you get sweaty with the stuff right you know this stuff intimately you look at these charts and you're like what the f like this means nothing to me i really think that all the performance metrics like i thought as you know

it's it's not the way that it's not the way that traditional performance can be looked at we don't even have the ability like even reviewers like right we don't even have the ability to kind of test new m1 stuff the way that we traditionally would then they should shut up and not talk about it that was simple performance yeah then they should focus on real world performance they should focus on things and they did do some of it and i did acknowledge it things like like instant on. That is a performance metric. Absolutely. But to imagine for a second that there's not going to be any way to objectively evaluate this stuff, I think is foolish. Of course there will be. There just aren't really very many good tools on the Mac. And a big problem we're going to have is that if we don't have applications to run,

and we don't have benchmarking tools, we're just taking Apple's freaking word for it and they can't even put numbers on their graph. I mean, are they even able to measure it? I'm sure they can. Why? But they can't. Why are you sure?

Because I'm sure they have tools that we will never have access to. Well, why don't they provide them then? You know what NVIDIA did recently? This was incredible. Yeah, I saw. NVIDIA, so well, for the people who didn't, for the people who didn't see it, NVIDIA released their own internal tools for measuring your click to photon latency, which is one of the

key, key measures of the smoothness of your gaming experience, as well as their own internal tools for measuring the isolated power consumption of a graphics card. They released these tools. Why? Because they were confident that if reviewers were equipped with proper tools, their products would come out on top. That's why NVIDIA released those tools and AMD didn't. AMD has those tools. tools and amd didn't amd has those tools they didn't release them okay but okay listen i'm not saying that apple does m1 is amazing i i really am not well you can't because you don't have it yet unless you do right right but i do think based on the very early kind of data we have on this stuff right now it feels way more promising than anything we've seen from like, you know,

uh, surface pro X with their arm, their arm, uh, implementation. And same with like the Qualcomm stuff. But I didn't even cover surface pro X. No,

no, that's what I'm saying. Like, like I have, right. I've, I've reviewed surface for X. I've reviewed like the,

sure. Those are so bad. It's like, these things shouldn't even be on the market. But I feel like this Apple version of it, it has potential. It legitimately has potential to me. So it sounds to me like you and I are 100% on the same page. We're totally on the same page.

We are. So you evaluate. I was just joking with the one view on Rostec. Oh, no, I know. I know that's a meme. So my point is you reviewed those products and you said, these are so bad they shouldn't be on the market. I did you one better.

I didn't even review them. They weren't even worth me picking up because I already knew the answer. And I was like, nobody should care about these. They don't even deserve the coverage on my channel. That bad. See, I wanted them to nobody should care about these. They don't even deserve the coverage on my channel. That bad. See, I wanted them to be good, particularly Microsoft's version of it. Like, I thought of Windows, you know, they had this whole thing, like they worked with ARM to develop this chip.

And I believed it. You know what? I think I'm just more jaded. I think I'm just more jaded than you, dude. Because, like, I used the Surface RT right at launch. Right at launch. And you jaded it think i'm just more jaded than you dude because like i i used the surface rt right at launch right at launch and it was you got fooled it was utterly worthless i you know what as part of my preparation for this wan show i actually went back and i watched my original video of the surface arm version the first surface and i, okay, am I just being totally unfair to Apple?

Like, was I way more positive about it when Microsoft did it? And I went back and I watched it and went, yeah, I was more positive about it. But I don't think it's because it was Microsoft and because it was Apple, because I'm just as down on ARM on Windows devices these days as i am about uh more down actually compared to how i feel about what it's going to be like on the mac because i do think apple will figure it out which if you'd watch to the end of my video you would know that i did say um there's too many ads dude it's it was like it was russian dolls of ads it's just that i'll own that i'll own that i'm not even going to apologize for it you should subscribe

on floatplane no ads on floatplane yeah so hey dave since uh since i've got you um do you want to go ahead and subscribe on floatplane it's just five dollars a month you get uh early access as well as exclusive behind the scenes that might give you some ideas for how to run your own operation over there to your to your channel to your channel yeah yeah yeah yeah go ahead it's five bucks five bucks i'll do it there you go say see look at that there you go ads work to all the listeners i actually genuinely believe flow clone is pretty cool well thank you i personally can't do it but i've i've scoped around on there and for the content creators that are on there they're actually on there it's a awesome service well thank you appreciate that so i think that's the difference is i'm just more jaded than you we're both in exactly the same

position thinking that apple's implementation is definitely going to be better than what microsoft and samsung qualcomm and whoever else have done um right and we both need to reserve judgment for when we can actually try the new max and see what software compatibility is like and performance for non-native software and uh that's all that matters and non-native i heard that you actually didn't watch your video yet i was planning to though because i heard you're on the same page as me about these things ultimately getting abandoned that m1's going to get dumped yeah i'm definitely not on the same page with you there really so you think they're going to get a full you think they're going to

get a full support cycle these first gen first gen devices if they don't think about how much like i know apple's rich think about how many billions they've sunk on this right now oh no that's not what i'm talking about that's not what i'm talking about no no they're sticking with arm i mean m1 oh yeah oh dude i'm a hundred percent yeah i would be surprised if they go like six months it is the worst oh they'll go more than six months i mean even apple watch series zero got a couple of watch os updates and they called it series zero they literally revisionist history got rid of it series zero i thought you meant when there's gonna be like a next iteration of it oh no they will absolutely have a higher performance chip coming

and honestly i think part of why i was so disappointed was because i don't pay much attention to rumors because i just, I get tired of it. And I was expecting, I was expecting more like, you know, a 12 core or a 16 core chip. Yeah, something massive. I was expecting, if they were going to put it in something that they called MacBook Pro,

I was expecting it to be not an iPad. And there's nothing wrong with the iPad. I get you. But it's not wrong with the iPad. I get you. But it's not a MacBook Pro. I feel exactly that. Yeah. All right. Well, you know what?

I absolutely love that you called into the show today. We never do guests anymore. This was an absolute blast. Dave Lee is brought to you by my iPhone 12 Pro here, by the way, ladies and gentlemen. Just holding this up for the camera. Mister, I hate Apple so much. I can't even touch their products, apparently.

Do you like their phone? This one? It's fine. It's a phone. I love the HDR video recording. I touched on that in my unboxing of it. I was absolutely blown the f*** away. It's brain fire.

It's unreal. Everything else about it is like, yep, definitely a phone. Well, I wouldn't call it mediocre. It's fine. It's unreal everything else about it is like yeah it's definitely a phone well i wouldn't call it mediocre it's fine it's just there's a lot of good phones now like exactly it's hard to compel people to upgrade their iphones these days why upgrade it's not like it's not like the flat's not like... What? I've seen that they're sharp. They're not even comfortable. I don't even like it better.

It's fine. It's fine, I guess. Alright. Thanks for calling in, dude. You have a wonderful evening. Alright, take care. Alright. So, basically, it sounds like we're on the same page

i think a lot of times situations like that just require um immediate back and forth discussion voice calls that type of stuff and i think that was that was really cool i'm really stoked i'm gonna let you finish but did you just actually say that to me? What do you mean? Do you know, ladies and gentlemen, if I had a dollar for every time Luke gave me an excuse for something not getting done or not being able to figure something out because he hadn't heard back from an email yet i would i wouldn't even have to make videos anymore okay the number of times i have told that guy pick up a phone and just talk to people to get the

problem solved oh i love it i love it I do the same thing now. I've, I've adopted totally, totally onboarded because it works. And like, yeah, you know what? Sometimes it can be uncomfortable, but the uncomfortable portion usually lasts for like five to 30 seconds, way less painful. And then, and then you're almost always much more actually functioning together as a unit to solve or discuss a problem. Exactly. You move so much quicker. The first hello can be kind of rough

because you can hear it in their voice sometimes, like, oh, why is this person talking to me? I don't want to talk on the phone right now or whatever. But then you transmit across that it's important and usually people jump on board. So I don't know. Yeah, you got me for sure hilarious i am on that team now for sure well unfortunately yeah oh go ahead yeah oh i was trying to and you know this i was trying to hunt for a call in like that whole show um and then dave just appears out of nowhere dave showed up right in the chat that was beautifully unapologetically

a phone call yep um so we've kind of run out of time here ladies and gentlemen which is really unfortunate because there is a bunch of really cool stuff we had wanted to talk about today should we blow through a few of these topics yeah yeah um so the new consoles have launched there are some issues some xbox owners are complaining about weird noises possibly from fan blades clipping on something um some have issues so this isn't in the doc i want to post this just because the video has been going out a lot there are fake videos going out um someone i i don't know if some of them are maybe real but at least one of the videos and the one that I think has probably circulated the most

of the Xbox video with smoke coming out of the top of it, super fake. It was called out by quite a few people. I'm not the first person to call it out, but it seems like a decent amount of people seem to think that it's legit. That one in particular, not legit. There might be other ones that are, I'm not sure.

So look out for hoaxes, basically. basically yes and this happens like every console one fanboys of one side try to make some stuff up of both the other side the fact of the matter is both sides are having some amount of problems which shouldn't be surprising to anyone um the xbox ones like linus just mentioned is like potentially fan blades clipping it's just making some weird noises in general it's having issues with the optical drive not taking in discs and many xboxes were shipped without um like padding or bubble wrap just a box inside a bigger box which is not not awesome especially because some people like their console boxes being pristine over time the ps5 has had storage issues uh game reviewer acg reports that ps5 has been bricked as a result of the same storage rebuild issues that other reviewers have

corroborated he appears to be the first slash only one uh to have the whole console bricked so other people are just having some some various issues and it seems to be a uh rebuild database bug that's rough i'm sure they will probably fix but it does suck right now and i'm sure if your console gets bricked that way they will replace it um others encounter have encountered uh similar issues when putting the system in rest mode during play of spider-man remastered specifically and when performing data transfers from the ps4 that sucks uh yeah that's unfortunate but yeah so unsurprisingly new thing is having some amount of issues really close to launch that happens it's almost like that's a thing that happens all the time uh in other news, smart access memory is not exclusive to AMD. So

confirming what many suspected when AMD made the announcement at the second Where Gaming Begins event in October, Radeon 6000 is not the only GPU capable of using smart access memory. Basically, it's a technique where the CPU is given full access to the GPU's memory simultaneously rather than in 256 meg chunks, which is what you're stuck with without the feature. So smart access memory is just AMD's marketing term for PCI Express Resizable BAR, a standard that was introduced to the PCI Express spec as of Gen 4 in 2017. It does not actually require Gen 4 though, so it could be backported to previous generation GPUs, we just don't know if it will. Anyway, it's not exclusive to AMD, they're just the first to capitalize on it.

So ahead of the Radeon 6000 launch on November 18th, Nvidia made a statement to press that they are working on implementing support for the feature in their PCIe Gen 4 based RTX 30 series graphics cards, bringing them up to speed. What we don't know is whether or not it will actually work on AMD's Ryzen 5000 series platform. Because my understanding is that the platform itself has to support it. And I don't know if that support is going to be explicitly for one GPU or another GPU

or how that is supposed to work. So that'll be pretty fascinating. It's really funny. This is an Anthony Young note. He writes, it's funny that NVIDIA is on the other side of the company claims new feature as their own, but really it's just an upcoming industry standard game. See also tessellation, ray tracing, variable rate shading, mesh shaders, basically anything that's defined in DirectX 12 Ultimate. That's a really good note. That's really funny. I love that guy.

What a great guy. Isn't he great? And we had a really good topic around user benchmark getting blasted on social media. I think we did actually tease it at the beginning of the show. My apologies. We are not going to do that we're going to reuse it for next week when we're going to have more time to really sink our teeth into that one because that's a really really big topic and luke and i need to play video games tonight so unfortunately we just can't um we can't wait that long um so there's a couple more housekeeping items first of all i had a couple of

people ask who was that guy who called into the show. So I'm spamming the chat right now with the link to Mr. Dave Lee's channel. He's kind of the man with the plan, especially when it comes to laptops and mobile devices. Let's go ahead and hit floatplane chat up with those as well. Boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, boop. Oh, is that working?

Apparently I'm not allowed to post links. Ah, there they go. There's just a slight delay there. You working on that Luke? Uh, so there you go. That's a Mr. Dave Lee's channel, Dave2D. And there was something else that I had wanted to, ah, yes. Ah, yes. Intel PC tech support challenge. Number two is coming. RGB edition. I will be co-hosting with dimitri from hardware canucks and christopher yee will be going up against the toasty bros now the toasty bros are two people so they're gonna have to tag each other out you know like wwf not like world wildlife federation or fund or whatever you know like what wwe used to be, you know, WWF style, you know, got to tag in, tag out of the tag team match. Anyway, the point is we are sending each contestant

a quality RGB gaming rig, which we messed up before we sent it. Intel is sponsoring it again this time around, and we'll be putting on an absolutely insane giveaway. i apparently get to tell you now they are giving away 200 200 core i9 10900k golden sample processors with cryo coolers what that's pretty no applause no applause that's like that's like 150 grand worth of hardware or something like that wait what did i miss something 200 10 900 k's with cryo coolers i forgot the two i didn't hear the 200 there's 200 of them i just heard the 10 900k i thought it was one do not miss that stream be there or be square november 24th 10 30 a.m pacific time streaming to floatplane youtube and twitch that's actually like even a decent chance yeah compared to like right giveaways

it was supposed to be an ltx thing rip ah so we're repurposing it we're using it for this stream it's going to be flipping what what is it what is the term poggers poggers is that is that the correct slang yeah does that work it'll be super poggers all right it's going to be it's going to be poggers all right uh we've got time for just a handful of super chats uh michael kruger watching while i design a solar preheat domestic hot water system for u.s government consulate in Classified. I recently applied for one of your open positions. Is 50 US dollars enough for you to respond to me?" Okay, so we had a lot of people who do not have Canadian work permits apply for our positions. The problem is that if you don't have a Canadian work permit, you can't work in Canada. And

unfortunately, importing you is not as easy as you might think. If you managed to get a work permit, we'd be happy to consider you for the position. But if you didn't manage to get a work permit, we basically immediately threw your application in the garbage. I'm sorry. That's just the way it is. Ilya asks, Sarah's first PC build when? I actually sent out an email about that today. I asked her if she wants to do her own PC build

as a follow-up to Secret Shopper with a kind of a cool twist on it. So instead of me just like hand-holding like I did when Max built her first PC, I would actually act as like forum sort of advice. So the expectation would be that she actually has to sit and figure out the components on her own. And then every time she has to post a question to me

and wait for a response, there's going to be like a 20 minute penalty or something like that. You know, because it does take time to do research in that form. It would be really funny if you made the responses as like 19-year-old Linus. Yeah, well, 19-year-old Linus was actually very thorough

and very helpful on computer forums. So I would have to dial it back a little bit. Oh, I thought you would have been a little aggressive. I was, no, no, I was actually like, I was definitely a memer but i like cared and still care i cared a lot about people like getting the best computer for their money i got real mad when people were like fanboys and stupid um so there were definitely people i fought with more specifically just about that yeah so and that still makes me mad because

it's still stupid um yeah it don't it don't change but basically the idea is we're not going to go back to the m1 conversation yeah we're not we're fine so we're going back to wait it is not did elon change the canadian pricing to be 69 420 we tweeted at him about that uh you know it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. Maybe the S is, but we had tweeted about the Y. It doesn't matter. The point is, the way it'll work is when she's done, we'll look at how long it took her to kind of like research it on her own as someone who's never done it before, and then get her to make the final call. If you haven't built a PC before, should you just buy a pre-built? And she can pick, having sat through

the experience with all of these SIs, she can pick which one she would have chosen. And she can also compare her prebuilt or her self-built one. So I think it should be, I think I know who's going to win because honestly, if you don't already know how to build a computer, it's like kind of a waste of time to learn how for the purposes of just like building your own rig, because it doesn't actually cost that much to have someone else do it for you if you pick a good SI. But I'm going to be interested to see what she thinks. Maybe she'll have enough fun during the process that she'll be into it. Brandon says, shout out to Nick Light and the support team at LTT Store.

They went above anything I expected. I really appreciate it. They might think it's a small gesture, but I appreciate it more than they know. Hey, thanks, Brandon. Matthew says, Linus is right. I have no idea what you're talking about. So hopefully I was actually right and I'm not going to be making an apology video. Drax the Dator, intentionally or not, I generally start one show about five minutes after it goes live and then skip through the ads. So I figured this would be some fair compensation. Hey, thanks. Thanks for the super chat. I still don't know why people send super chats. There's been a whole lot of talk about this in the Twitch community in particular lately

with some prominent streamers just like turning off bits and donations and super chats and all kinds of stuff. And the funny thing is you guys already know that I don't respond to the vast majority of them. I just try to do like a few at the end of the show. Maybe we need a better system for this. I don't know. Do you guys want me to just turn them off? Like, I don't know what the, I don't know what the right answer here is. Cause I can't monitor the chat as a whole. It moves way too fast. This, this would never work but what would

be really cool is if i could get a feed of them on my side and like press approve or deny and if i pressed approve they would like kind of slide up on the bottom of the screen so you could have like live promoted comments but that would take a lot of work yeah i don't i don't know what the best way to handle it is. Because you can't have all of them show up because people could put stuff in there that would be extremely not okay to be on screen. Most people seem to want them turned off.

So, all right. Yeah, I'll consider it. I'll consider it. You should have a super chat war to see if they should be turned off or not. Floatplane, unsurprisingly, wants me to only respond to float plane yeah come on guys it's the only time i look at youtube stuff uh all right uh nikoshev

says why egpu is not supported m1 is an soc integrating most of the components of the computer yeah but that doesn't mean it can't have enough pci express lanes to run an eGPU. And if it has Thunderbolt, I guess. So the truth is, I don't know that much about what differentiates USB 4 from Thunderbolt. And Intel themselves have been kind of vague about it. So I guess we'll have to see. I don't necessarily think that your theory is correct. We're going to have to wait for the truth to come out on that one. think that your theory is correct uh we're gonna have to wait for the truth to come out on that one ryan duffy asks could a good networking card improve ping stability versus motherboard on board very very unlikely uh but robotech says hey linus i've seen all lmg videos since whole room water cooling it's a long

time ago i just wanted to say hi and let you know i love what you do thank you very much room water cooling. It's a long time ago. I just wanted to say hi and let you know I love what you do. Thank you very much. Okay. Juan says, giving a computer science point of view, Linus isn't technically wrong. The truth is the ARM architecture just isn't there. I'll always simp for Linus, love or hate him. These are iPads that went to the gym. Well, okay, it's not that simple. The thing that we haven't seen before is, and that is unique about this situation, is that Apple with the iPhone and iPad has got over 10 years of experience under their belts

building these chips, and their developer community has over 10 years of experience building high performance and well optimized apps for them. developer community has over 10 years of experience building high performance and well-optimized apps for them. So no, this will be a success. I mean, there's no way Apple goes back. So it's either going to be a success or they will call it a success one way or the other. But it's not going to be a disaster eventually. Gritos says, I purchased a keyboard t-shirt in the wrong color. LTT support sent me

the correct one, but I decided to keep both. So here's the money for the second order. Oh, thank you. All right. I decided to keep both. Robert Mail says, disable super chats. Do it. You won't. He sends a super chat like almost every, almost every W show uh well i think they were giving him the option to um send it back or pay more maybe i'm actually not sure i don't i don't know but he basically sent a super chat for the amount of the keyboard so thanks google yeah all right that's pretty much it for the show today thank you guys for tuning in i actually had a great time today it was really fun having dave on the show we should really go back to bringing on guests more often we will see you again next week same bat time same bat channel bye man i was hoping someone would call in because i honestly couldn't find anything

like i found like a couple tweets and there was a video. I didn't really want to sit and watch the whole video. Usually, on something like that, like, you read the comments on that video. And you can find stuff. But the comments were just, like, 80 plus percent of it was just memes. Like, no one really seemed to care. The like or dislike on the video was, like, pretty strong. That's fine, guys.

Below average, but it's fine. Yeah. But I think that's going to happen literally anytime you do anything with Apple. Whether it's positive or negative or accurate or inaccurate, it's always going to be a little bit lower than... It's polarizing.

Exactly.