The WAN Show - We Messed Up - WAN Show November 5, 2021

Starting point is 00:00:00 You know what's great about ambition? You can't see it. Some things look ambitious, but looks can be deceiving. For example, a runner could be training for a marathon, or they could be late for the bus. You never know. Ambition is on the inside. So that goal to beat your personal best? Keep chasing it. Drive your ambition mitsubishi motors and we're live welcome to the van show ladies and gentlemen we've actually got a freaking ton of topics to get through today so no preamble we accidentally broke intel's embargo for their 12th gen chips we will talk about that and of course a summary of the media coverage of the 12th gen i will also be addressing some of the particularly ill-informed comments that were left on our video criticizing

Starting point is 00:00:52 our um our choices for how we decided to test the platform uh i tried dungeons and dragons for the first time today yeah so that was fun we're going to talk about that that's sort of a little bit not really that on topic but what else we got too many shout outs man you did three no i did you took one of mine i did two two two the intel 12th gen thing including our flub yeah and the dungeon of dragons oh i thought you did something okay also uh switch modder gary bowser pleads guilty, owes Nintendo $4.5 million. Big yikes. Also, we're going to talk about Linux stuff. We do that every week on this show now.

Starting point is 00:01:33 Yeah, we don't actually ever release the videos. No. We just talk about the videos that we are producing in the background. They take a long time to edit because, I don't know about Luke, but my screen capture is a complete cluster. Mine's not actually. You know, for the first video, I actually numbered them for chronological order and titled each one of them so that they would know what was happening. So it'd be easier for them to fit it into the thing. Yeah, mine's a little less organized than that.

Starting point is 00:02:03 Yeah. Let's roll back the show. This Bowser thing annoys me. This show is brought to you by spanning msi and ridge wallet we are gonna jump right into um the big oops that happened with our video review of intel's 12th gen alder lake cpus yeah um that's what i was i was gonna be like oh no you know like exactly so what happened was the video was supposed to go live at 6 a.m pacific standard time on thursday and typically what we do is we upload our video and we set it to unlisted and then we set a scheduled publication time. Now we also typically promote our new video releases on Twitter and because this was at 6 a.m. we scheduled a tweet

Starting point is 00:03:21 that was supposed to go out at 6 a.m. at the same time that the video would flip live, pointing to the video. Unfortunately, the tool that we've been using to schedule our tweets, and I'm not going to name any names because who knows, there could have been some kind of user error involved. Maybe we entered our time zone wrong or something like that like maybe someone went in and made a change to the account and and something got screwed up and it was our own fault i don't know i actually do not know the details but what i know is that later on that day another scheduled tweet that we were going to send out were going out way early so i i'm actually i'm i'm glad that it wasn't any worse than it was because the tweet went out early while the video was unlisted so

Starting point is 00:04:17 it was viewable by people that had the link and the link was in the tweet yes and then ed spotted it almost immediately set the video to private pulled the tweet but that didn't prevent eagle-eyed viewers from ripping the video yeah um capturing screenshots of all the graphs and then reposting them um which is very unfortunate so basically what happened was our tweet scheduler bunged up which could have been our fault and we tweeted a link to an unlisted video so there's a couple of different solutions that we've got to make sure this doesn't happen again uh honestly the people that i think are most affected by this are our fellow members of the media that was really not something that we intended to do we weren't trying to get the drop on anyone. So what we're going to be doing moving forward is we are going to set embargoed videos to private rather than unlisted when we want to schedule

Starting point is 00:05:14 them to go live, if possible. I actually haven't looked into whether it still works that way, but what we will definitely not do is schedule tweets for embargo lift. So we will just have to get up at 6 a.m like everybody else and tell you guys all about the good news so the big news in the tech industry this week was obviously intel's 12th gen processors they're codenamed alder lake they are finally available to buy on the lga 1700 platform the 8 plus 8 core Core i9-12900K delivers performance that sometimes bests AMD's Ryzen 9 5950X, despite having half of its 16 cores designated as

Starting point is 00:05:54 efficiency cores. And this unique architecture that Intel has here with up to eight performance and up to eight efficiency cores has resulted in some controversy around testing. So there's a couple of criticisms that were leveled at us over the way that we evaluated the Core i9-12900K. One of them was that we used Windows 11 for our testing. And we did provide some of the rationale in the video for why we used Windows 11. And the reason was that Windows 11 has an updated scheduler that is properly tuned to take advantage of the big little architecture of Alder Lake. Now, I know that some people were upset about this because Windows 11 hasn't really reached any kind of critical mass in terms of market share at this point. But the other reason that did not make it into the video, because frankly, I felt like the reason that it wouldn't perform properly if we didn't use Windows

Starting point is 00:06:57 11 was enough. The other reason that we used is that it's not as simple as just looking at what's the dominant operating system and going, okay, let's test on that one. Because if someone is buying a brand new system today, the odds that they are going to choose Windows 11 over Windows 10 or anything else, especially for a gaming machine, and typically our reviews are more focused on gaming performance, are going to be much higher so even though windows 11's market share might be three percent or five percent or whatever for people buying a brand new machine today it will be markedly higher than that so we felt that between making sure it's

Starting point is 00:07:36 performing properly and trying to target what we think people buying alder lake cpus are going to be using that it made more sense to test with Windows 11. Is the concern there that people think the other CPUs are performing worse in Windows 11? Now, there is some truth to that. So Windows 11 has had scheduler issues with AMD. The good news is that literally, I think like two days, I don't want to say how many days

Starting point is 00:08:04 because I don't remember exactly when our chips arrived, but days before we actually started our testing, AMD provided a chipset driver update, and Microsoft pushed an update for Windows 11 that fixed the scheduler on AMD CPUs. But there was an issue. An issue remained, okay? You could apply the fix, and your performance would be fixed. was an issue, an issue remained, okay?

Starting point is 00:08:25 You could apply the fix and your performance would be fixed. But as was discovered by, I think Hardware Unboxed might've been the first ones to bring this to light. If you change your CPU, if you swap it out, it can actually degrade back to the pre-fixed performance. Now, it's not a guarantee that that's going to happen every time, as we discovered, because, yes, guys, we didn't mention it in the video because the bug did not affect us.

Starting point is 00:08:58 But as we discovered, Anthony was able to swap CPUs, and all of our performance numbers still made sense. We didn't see just all of a sudden, like, absolutely tanked AMD performance numbers still made sense we didn't see just all of a sudden like like absolutely tanked amd performance numbers right so that was uh that was sort of the i think the main controversy that there was around in particular our video was our choice of windows 11 but i stand behind it 100 i think that most people buying a brand new system today are going to install windows 11 that's also like how it works the the 12 12 000 series processors and windows 11 were kind of hand in hand a bit right the new scheduler system and stuff yes hell was helping with that i i think at the very least you would have to include windows 11 benchmarks

Starting point is 00:09:40 maybe doing both could have been both would have been interesting but it would have we already did and this was this was pre-release but we already took a look at gaming performance in windows 10 versus windows 11 found that it was not significantly different so basically we're just doubling our number of benchmark runs for what to to prove the point that it's not different to prove the point that it's not different. To prove the point that it's not different or to demonstrate that it is different with the 12900K, which we already know. And we made it clear that we recommend

Starting point is 00:10:10 running Windows 11 with the 12900K. So then just don't do that. Just don't run Windows 10 with the 12900K, which might not appeal to you. Windows 11 is, it's going through some growing pains. Maybe a reason to not get the processor, yeah. Which is fine. You don't have to buy something on release date.

Starting point is 00:10:27 Yeah. But you got to remember that this content is going to be there a year from now, two years from now. And I want to upload what is going to be the most relevant piece of content evaluating the performance of this product for the longest period of time.

Starting point is 00:10:39 If someone wants to buy a used 12900K in four years because they're still amazing, because they probably will be. They'll probably be running Windows 11. Probably. So there was another sort of controversy. Just one after the other. Yeah, the other controversy was that we used DDR5.

Starting point is 00:11:09 the other controversy was that we used DDR5. And this is one of those ones where every single time, it's like, tell me you're a fanboy without telling me you're a fanboy. Every single time, whether it's AMD, Intel, Nvidia, Apple, I don't care. Every time one of them has some kind of technological advantage over the other, all of a sudden evaluating that product against some other one is now unfair. It's unfair. Linus, you can't compare the latest iPhone to the Android handsets on the market because it uses a 5 nanometer chip and those ones don't. Linus, you can't benchmark Intel with DDR5 because you're running AMD with DDR4. You need to benchmark Intel with DDR4 then. The number... That does muddy a bit the argument of the the future performance stuff

Starting point is 00:12:06 though which slightly uh because like amd processors down the line will support ddr5 they will but they'll be completely different processors and we will test them with ddr5 yeah that's fair why would you ever yeah never mind i take it all back so so i mean and and it's sometimes sometimes it gets really ridiculous um i remember back when uh amd was using hbm memory in their gpus and nvidia was still using a more conventional gddr something or other and you'd like you'd you'd upload performance graphs demonstrating that sorry amd in spite of your expensive fancy memory the nvidia card is in fact faster in applications xyz and then you'd have people going but you guys didn't you guys

Starting point is 00:12:52 didn't account for the amd's got hbm i'm like i don't care it doesn't matter what matters is how many dollars you hand to someone and how many FPSs you get back. Yeah. That ultimately is all that matters. And what we did was in the... Actually, it's so funny because I've been around the block a few times. And as Anthony and I were sitting in script review for the Alder Lake review, I went through and I added not one but two sort of points two spots

Starting point is 00:13:30 in the script where i specifically acknowledged that ddr5 is significantly more expensive than ddr4 and that you have to consider the full platform cost when you're evaluating the value of a product which is like really high just looking right now it's super high but the thing is the reason that i phrased it the way that i did and the reason that i didn't go after ddr5 for being too expensive or whatever did you do price performance no we couldn't because Because the thing is that DDR5 pricing is going to be probably incredibly volatile over the coming few months. But like any commodity item, because we've seen these changeovers happen now five times, like any commodity item, you're going to see that volume production of DDR4, volume production of DDR5, they're going to go like this. They're going to cross. And at some point, DDR5 will become the same price as DDR4,

Starting point is 00:14:30 and then it will be cheaper. And once again, we're producing these reviews for the long term where we're evaluating, okay, in the context of what else was available on the market at the time, how does 12th Gen perform? Did you show an example of 12th gen's performance uh utilizing ddr5 versus ddr4 we didn't so what we would like to do is a follow-up video okay but what i had gotten guidance on ahead of time from memory manufacturers was that if you're running overclocked ddr4 versus overclocked ddr5 you are going to end up in very similar territory.

Starting point is 00:15:06 And it is possible that the platform will have more headroom with DDR5, but it's pretty negligible. The only real reason, and I remember adding this to the script as well, the only real reason to go for DDR5 would be if you want to perhaps buy into a memory technology that you'll be able to carry forward with you to another system more easily try to leave some slots open or something and to be clear like i didn't make an argument for doing that which i would never do you should never buy system memory thinking this is an investment i am going to this is this is my memory i'm going to use this memory because the thing is the pricing the pricing only goes in one direction the

Starting point is 00:15:54 capacities only go in the other direction and the speeds only go in the same direction as the capacity so you are far better off going for whatever is the best bang for the buck today, assuming that by the time you retire this system, you're just going to leave it in it, and it'll go to a relative, or you could sell the whole thing complete on Facebook Marketplace, or whatever the case may be, and you're probably going to go acquire a new memory that's a better match,

Starting point is 00:16:23 because as we've seen, especially with Ryzen over the last few years, as these memory controllers have developed, faster and faster spec DDR4 has come out alongside it. And we've seen them kind of develop together and sort of help each other to continue to improve. And I suspect, especially because we're in the infancy of DDR5, that we're going to see the same thing. We're going to see tighter cast latencies. We're going to DDR5, that we're going to see the same thing. We're going to see tighter cast latencies.

Starting point is 00:16:46 We're going to see higher speeds. We're going to see cost come down. All of this is going to happen. So we wanted to represent the platform as it will be moving forward and also as it is today. Like you kind of mentioned, it probably doesn't even matter. Someone in Floatplane chat, Zatharion, said, hardware and box has DDR4 and DDR55 numbers and the performance difference is almost negligible

Starting point is 00:17:09 so yeah yep so um apparently der bauer has information showing the same thing so yeah who cares so in a massive surprise to nobody the super early new gen performs happens with ram all the time it happens every time yeah literally every single time we've gone to a new generation of ddr the super mature low cost last gen is very competitive with the immature high cost new gen and the only reason to really buy the brand new one is because you want to have the brand new one for whatever whatever reason um neo cortez says yeah once once the timings start to tighten uh you'll start to see the difference yeah and also once you see the speeds dramatically increase you'll start to see the difference too. Like something that a lot of people I don't know if realize is that cast latencies are not measured in like nanoseconds.

Starting point is 00:18:09 Like that's not actually a unit of time. That is a unit of cycles. Yeah. So when you have memory that has like, that's one of the reasons actually that your cast latencies go up so much as we go through the memory generations but overall memory access latency isn't like double quadruple eight at least 16x what it was with ddr1 it

Starting point is 00:18:34 doesn't work that way because as the memory frequency goes up you actually even though you have more cycles you're running at this much, much higher frequency per second. So the actual real time, like in fractions of a second, or not, let's avoid the word fractions, but in the actual time in seconds can end up very similar or even better once speeds ramp up enough. So that's a really important thing for people to understand because I see a lot of people looking at, oh, you've got like cast latencies of 36 to 40, even on high end kits for DDR5. Well, okay. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:19:10 But it's also running at a much higher frequency than you'll see on DDR4. Yeah. Horst says DDR5 is three times as expensive right now for the same capacity. Yeah. So I probably wouldn't go that route boom okay uh what else did we want to talk about here uh gaming performance great with alder lake i am i'm actually pretty surprised that intel managed to so decisively take back the performance crown. But if I was the kind of Intel fan that's been crying for the last couple of years,

Starting point is 00:19:50 I wouldn't necessarily get all, you know, swaggery about it right now because AMD has stuff that I think is rumored to be hitting like first half of 2022 that should bring them fully competitive with Intel again and AMD has already pointed out that they don't need efficiency cores in order to boost their core count to 16 on their consumer platform so man it's going to be real interesting and AMD

Starting point is 00:20:21 already has an efficiency advantage so they definitely have more levers to pull in terms of squeezing more out of these chips uh yeah our we we saw our core i9 hitting as high as 96 degrees in blender with an nhd15 it's a it's a it's a really hot chip it's an nhd15 really struggling to cool something down it's like that's a bit of a yikers well part of the problem is that it's not just the thermal output right like this is a consumer chip this is not a gigantic die like one of the things that i think people probably don't realize unless they've used them is that just because you've got a super high core count chip that doesn't necessarily mean that it's really really difficult to cool so amd's epic 64 cores for example are really easy to keep cool because the dies are not only like physically larger because there's

Starting point is 00:21:16 64 freaking cores in the thing but they're also spread out because of amd's chiplet design for their last couple generations of chips. So what that means is that as long as you've got enough heat pipe and enough heatsink fin to deal with however many watts it is, the actual transfer of thermal energy between the CPU IHS and the bottom of the cooler is way, way more efficient, way faster. So when you've got this tiny die, this consumer die, all that heat is concentrated in one place and the bottleneck becomes how fast you can move that heat across the base of the cooler

Starting point is 00:21:56 before you can even send it up the heat pipes to start to dissipate it to the surrounding air. So that's one of the reasons that this chip is so freaking hot. MSI actually did um i don't was it a live stream i can't remember i saw the slides from it anyway they showed that um there's actually two different dyes for alder lake depending on what the core configuration is and they both have their own kind of um slightly slightly off uh center one of them's centered and i think the other one's slightly

Starting point is 00:22:25 off centered they have their own hot spots though uh which means that not it's not even the area of the dye that you need to focus all of your cooling it's actually that that particular part of the dye where you need to focus almost all the cooling so once you're hitting this thing crazy hard with like a blender render, that 96 degrees is because it can't move that heat out away from the hotspot of the die fast enough. Anyway, the Core i9 really wasn't the star of the show for me. The 12600K, which is a $320 CPU that offers darn near top tier gaming performance while competing with the Ryzen 5 5600 X for price looks amazing. Now AMD is clearly responding. So micro center has already apparently 299 to 299 darn isn't competition great right so here's the thing here's the thing in pandemic times too every time you see a price drop every time you see a price drop okay unless it's on

Starting point is 00:23:38 clearance that means they could have sold it at that price before. So this is one of the things that I get really, I don't know, I get really exasperated about. Intel does not have a clean history, okay? It's not like they've forever been the world's most consumer-centric, you know, customer-friendly, competition-friendly, whatever it is you want to accuse them of, you could probably dig up some dirt. But don't imagine for a second that AMD is some kind of

Starting point is 00:24:13 white knight, okay? They are a corporation beholden to their shareholders. If they can $399.99 instead of $299.99, they will. AMD started the whole Extreme Edition FX bullcrap. Don't kid yourself. When AMD's on top, which they have demonstrated, they did it immediately. The second they were on top, they slowed down the product release cadence, the second they were on top they slowed down the product release cadence left their pricing where it was and fair fair play amd right we were in the middle of the biggest silicon shortage of certainly my lifetime which would probably mean pretty much ever because consumer electronics have kind of only really been the thing in our lifetimes yeah so you know yeah i'm not going to say hey you should sell something you don't even have enough stock of for half price yeah fair enough yeah they've legitimately been out of stock for a long time yeah just don't treat this like this is

Starting point is 00:25:14 an isolated to intel thing or an isolated to nvidia thing we need competition just because amd being on top with no competition would be no better for consumers than intel or nvidia doing it so that's that's my that's my spiel i'm not going to say any more on the subject other than that dang a 5800x for 299 that's pretty crazy that's genuinely pretty crazy that is a pretty darn good deal it's a good time i'm pretty i'm pretty at least there's one computer part that i feel like is like pretty aggressively priced right now because everything else is just horrible well yeah okay maybe cases are okay i haven't looked into it but like yeah things are things are rough things are rough out there man i mean you cannot go wrong when's the last time wow

Starting point is 00:26:01 when's the last time that i could say 100% straight faced as a gamer? You can't go wrong. AMD, Intel, flip a coin, decide what color you like better, who has the better box art. Both really strong. You're gonna be really happy with your gaming performance

Starting point is 00:26:19 no matter which way you go. And next generation could easily flip around.'s see man pretty cool it's pretty cool i freaking love it something that i thought was really interesting about the z690 platform is that while it does support pci express gen 5 i had sort of expected pI Express Gen 5 to make its way into the storage. But the way the CPUs are actually configured is with 16 PCI Express Gen 5 lanes, which are by default just all shunted over to the PCIe 16x slot, meaning that the only devices that are going to be able to take advantage of PCI Express Gen 5 on a typical consumer system are going to be able to take advantage of PCI Express Gen 5 on a typical consumer system are going to be GPUs. So we are pretty much stuck with PCI Express Gen 4 storage

Starting point is 00:27:12 speeds for the, at least until AMD releases a PCIe Gen 5 platform, because it's pretty clear that if Intel thought there was a benefit to it, they could have built in another five lanes but you want to know what my conspiracy theory is about this i think that ultimately it's the current gen consoles that are dictating how fast storage should be today interesting i also think there's really not much point building an m.2 nMe drive on a PCI Express Gen 5 interface because we're already under realistic loads. Like other than just, all right, I got part of this drive in SLC cache mode and I am sequentially reading and writing data and that's it. In any other reasonably real world workload, real world workload we are so far from even fully utilizing pci express gen 4 by 4 that it's a joke because we're we're limited by the controllers we're limited by especially the nand dies and that's not going to change as we as we get to 5-bit per cell flash that stuff ain't

Starting point is 00:28:20 getting faster and if anything it's become more difficult to find flash devices that will perform the way that you might expect them to based on the spec sheet yeah yeah things get a little messy right i mean we've got these 12k cameras that we're getting rid of uh but those 12k black magic cameras and finding an external usbc drive that could actually handle sustained writes at those kinds of bit rates was extremely difficult, even though almost all of them had a label that said they should be able to handle it just fine. But that's because most of them are using some kind of caching algorithm

Starting point is 00:28:58 to intelligently write really quickly and then flush that to slower NAND that's running in a different operating mode over time because the dies just aren't capable of it and you're not going to be able to just parallelize it more because you're limited by this m.2 form factor that you can put a maximum of what like four NAND dies on that's it so until we stack them higher um eliminate some of those internal bottlenecks i can see why until basically went yeah pcie gen 5 storage is just not a thing for now so i guess let's just not bother and you know if there's going to be any kind of benefit from faster storage on the desktop

Starting point is 00:29:38 especially for gamers i think it's pretty much going to come down to Microsoft Direct Storage. You mentioned gamers a couple of times, like consoles holding back and stuff like that. Do you think that really influences hardware stuff that much? Well, I think what it influences is figuring out what you're targeting for a platform. So right now, what we know microsoft is working on direct storage which is going to allow pc gamers to get similar functionality to what the playstation 5 and the xbox series is have where they especially in the case of the playstation 5 might even be able to actively stream assets from the ssd straight to the video cards frame buffer and without even passing through system memory.

Starting point is 00:30:30 So that's super cool, right? But the, sorry, what was your question? Actually, I slept like two and a half hours last night. I can barely keep my brain going. Yeah, no, all good. Right, are we limited? Right, right, right. So what we know is that we've got this functionality coming to the pc that's on the horizon but beyond that faster storage on the desktop has been for freaking lulls i just think

Starting point is 00:30:55 and like a long time maybe it's changed under under pat gelsinger's guidance but i we probably both remember there was a certain content creator that was brought to Intel back in the day to explain why gamers care at all about Intel CPUs. Because the board just had no idea that people use their CPUs for gaming. That was awkward. So I'm just kind of wondering, are they actually comparing against consoles? Do they actually care? Do they really think about gamers at all? Maybe they do more these days.

Starting point is 00:31:30 Maybe that meeting had a little bit more impact. It's also entirely possible that this was mainly a marketing bullet point, but why would you bother making it a marketing bullet point unless you think there's some kind of compelling story you can tell around it, right? And that's a compelling story that I would probably want to tell. Yeah, we've got PCI Express Gen 5, some kind of compelling story you can tell around it right and that's a compelling story that i i

Starting point is 00:31:45 would probably want to tell yeah we've got pci express gen 5 which on the desktop is going to be for gaming yeah that's it like workstation yeah sure totally different conversation and there's a rumored x699 platform so it looks like we're going to get an hdt platform again absolutely you go pci express gen there. Now we're talking high speed networking. Now we're talking high speed storage arrays, right? We're not talking one drive because you might actually be working with large scientific data sets that you need to be able to parse extremely quickly, right? You might have these enormous databases that you're looking things up and you might need all this IO, right? On the desktop, you don't need that.

Starting point is 00:32:25 The main thing pushing forward the need for faster PCI Express on the desktop is going to be gaming, whether it's that top 16X slot for your GPU or whether it's your storage. And we know that console generations, they refresh every four to seven years or whatever the numbers are,

Starting point is 00:32:43 unless your name is Nintendo, in which case you just slap a new screen on it and call it a day. So what we know is that for literally the entire service life of a PC that someone is going to buy today, like a typical service life, five or six years, no game developer is going to target faster storage

Starting point is 00:33:02 than PCI Express Gen 4x4. Yeah. That's it. Because that's what Sony's got in the PlayStation 5. And then Microsoft's actually half that speed, if I recall correctly. So I do think that that could be a factor. It's also probable that they were working on the design for this platform three years ago and might have just had no idea.

Starting point is 00:33:23 For all they knew maybe nvidia was going to have a pcie gen 5 gpu to launch at this time maybe that got delayed by the pandemic and the whole thing was supposed to line up in a oh whoops i guess we've got i guess we've got gen 5 motherboards and no gen 5 devices to put in them sorry i mean remember that whole awkward thing where amd hadn't updated their chipsets for like however many years in the dark time, the bulldozer times. Yeah. And AMD went out and launched, what was it, Gen 3? Gen 3 GPUs when they literally didn't have a Gen 3 platform that you could stick these GPUs in.

Starting point is 00:34:03 Yeah. There was a lot of memes yeah so poor amd right they had to do their they had to do their launch video using an intel platform to show off the gaming performance of their of their poor graphics card right i mean not not anymore obviously but those kinds of things absolutely happen you can't expect all of these ducks to magically perfectly align right uh speaking of magically perfectly aligning ducks sponsor spots uh yes we should definitely talk about sponsor spots oh my goodness we've only gotten through a couple topics we've got so much stuff to talk about today guys

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Starting point is 00:36:01 Yes. But it is rated for up to 3300 terabytes written which means that the endurance of it is looking pretty good it uses pci express gen 4x4 interface with built-in data security and error correction capabilities it's available one and two terabyte capacities in the m.2 2280 form factor so it's the 80 millimeter long one and offers a five-year warranty so that's probably a result of that big chungus endurance rating on it it's also brought to you by ridge wallet thanks to ridge wallet for sponsoring the wan show with ridge wallet you can stop carrying around old hotel room keys receipts spent gift cards all that kind of crap ridge wallet helps you carry less

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Starting point is 00:37:10 oh okay hopefully ridge wallet's not watching by this point because like they have they have bags we're gonna have our own bag oh so I haven't really shown this in detail. It sort of made a cameo in the framework video. But this is a new sample, and we are getting close, boys. This is going to be... Oh, I like that. On the zipper protector. That's pretty cool.

Starting point is 00:37:44 Sorry, it's a very minor detail but it says linus tech tips oh yeah yeah yeah it says it says linus tech tips you probably can't even see that on the like the zipper the zipper water um water seal yeah um this bag is freaking sick one of the first things that uh i was talking to colin and david they were like yeah the problem with backpacks is they like never have enough like slips For for all the stuff that like sleeves. Oh, it's like things in to check this out This is gonna be really hard to talk into our microphones while we're also oh my try to van a white it for you No, no, it's fine. So basically you've got your sleeve for your laptop another sleeve for a tablet There's a bit of a miscommunication with the factory on this sample. It's going to be microfiber, not whatever this weird vinyl is.

Starting point is 00:38:28 Another one that we're going to double check. So we're going to check the dimensions of the Steam Deck, make sure that fits, make sure the Nintendo Switch fits. So you'll be able to get all that in there. And then you've got another two pockets up here. I've got my battery bank. I've got my, this is my dongle pocket and then the main pocket you'll probably notice it has like a really rigid kind of square shape to it like it doesn't actually compress very much just not to derail you but we've got a couple questions in the chat what's the biggest size of laptop that fits 17 17 this is like full bag of holding style um pretty much completely unencumbered native support for our 40

Starting point is 00:39:06 ounce uh water bottle cool got a little holder for it got another little slip here got your sunglasses pouch uh i really like our sunglasses pouch it uses like this kind of here feel it it's like uh it's like a gel for the for the film so we didn't want to go with a hard one because it was going to take away from being able to like i managed to put a jackery portable power bank in here like you know those ones yeah because so we wanted it to stay square so you could like really put big stuff in it and that was going to interfere with that and make it kind of hard to get stuff in and out so we went with this it's kind of a good balance between protection and flexibility here we're going to reconfigure these pockets i think i've got some notes for nick and bridget Here, we're going to reconfigure these pockets, I think.

Starting point is 00:39:45 I've got some notes for Nick and Bridget. I think we're going to have this open on these three sides rather than open up on the bottom because it just makes it so you can't really store anything in here right now. And then we're going to have a full-length one for the screwdriver. So you can put your LTT screwdriver, when that's finally available, all the way down here. Is that one? That is one, isn't it?

Starting point is 00:40:04 Yeah. Have you not seen it yet? No. Oh, right. There you go. Sweet. And then, finally, on the other side, you've got a nice little side pocket that has a pass-through in case you want to run a cable from this mesh in here, passport pocket.

Starting point is 00:40:21 I am jazzed. This thing is so overbuilt. Check out these rivets on the handle. There's three on either side. The idea is that you could probably basically tow a car with it. Oh my goodness. That's crazy. And there's a ton of stuff that's like that, like double stitched. The bag's heavy because the bottom bottom the entire bottom has two full layers of this material so if you drag your bag around you're the kind of person who gets home and just like hucks your bag into the corner and it's like it wears away there's a full additional layer

Starting point is 00:40:56 of the same material like that same like rugged material um that you would have to wear through in order to wear all the way through the bag yeah um sorry i'm a little distracted by the screwdriver so i'm pretty excited yeah have you not been hands-on with this yet not once feels really good of course it does i'm pretty stoked yeah alex and kyle did a fantastic job um i really like how the ratchet feels just switching the ratchet feels really nice it the ratchet might end up being a little smoother so it comes down i didn't actually turn it because i didn't want to go through the mic but just switching the ratchet oh yeah it's it feels nice it's good yeah it's good we're excited you guys should have a bundle um i'm mostly talking to like conrad and nick about this but you guys

Starting point is 00:41:39 should have a bundle called like fully loaded or something fully where you get like the backpack and then it has a screwdriver that's like in the screwdriver slot already and it comes with a water bottle and it has some like some shirts in it that's actually a pretty good idea i mean and it like ships as like the bag it would depend on us being able to actually keep all of these items in stock that would remember how i warned people on when last week that WAN hoodies were going to sell out? They go. They're gone.

Starting point is 00:42:10 I think we're out of stock of at least three sizes now. We still have small, medium, large. No, small, medium. Sorry, large is gone. XL we have. 3XL is gone. So there's still a handful in a few sizes. And that's not what i'm supposed to talk

Starting point is 00:42:26 about for ltt store today actually i'm supposed to talk about the whole bunch of new designs speaking of which um the notifier thing that you guys have probably seen popping up around this part of the screen um not anymore but you know yeah uh that there's there's a way to send messages with that if you guys buy merch during the show and choose to send a message right now we just see your first name um and we can we can get a message from you and then we will do that super chat style at the end of the show we'll go through those messages so got some great new designs um this one's really different yes there we there we go. Cool. I like this shirt. Yeah, I really like it too.

Starting point is 00:43:07 It's just kind of cool, kind of retro-y looking. And then finally, we've got bananas for scale as well. Yes. So these are just little plushy bananas. If you like having a little banana for scale, we've got them in a bunch of different colors. Sarah worked on these. They've got a little Short Circuit logo on them.

Starting point is 00:43:22 There. That was the stuff that I was supposed to talk about for the, for LTT store. And also the new newsletter is out. It's got a little article that Sarah wrote up. That's about sort of how she chooses colors, which is the kind of thing you might not think about or might not know that you care about,

Starting point is 00:43:41 but she did a great job and I thought it was really interesting. She's kind of talked through like, here's the four colors we did not go with for our beanies that we were that we had selected but then we got the samples and we're like no um she explains how like different material choices can change the way that a color looks yeah once it's in the real world um it's actually pretty cool so make sure you sign up for the ltd store newsletter we're gonna have lots of behind the scenes stuff there i tried dungeons dragons for the first time today yes you did we did uh we did a collab with a filthy lot so they're a local local production

Starting point is 00:44:15 company that's really focused on dungeons and dragons content and then a bunch of other random stuff and uh so they're launching their their flagship show today ready to roll so we kind of went down just wanted to support our our local our local you know online video bros and uh let me tell you it was it was an experience so you're the more experienced dnd player obviously of the two of us yeah how would you describe the what would i call it a mission a scenario what what did we do we did we did a one shot um they're often referred to as one shots which is where you have like a campaign and a set of characters that you're only planning on playing one time or for one day got it whatever so i should pull up my character your

Starting point is 00:44:59 his character was ridiculous the chat had figured out his like stat line um by the end of the game and we're just like what uh because in in in you know casual linus fashion he was attempting to troll uh pretty much as hard as possible uh if you've seen the uh tech longer um that that riley filmed about star citizen you probably have been uh you know first firsthand witness to some of that but yeah it's uh it was fun it was interesting so we did a one shot and um i created a character linus tech 69 that's his name in game, by the way. Yeah, Line of Tech 69. He was a halfling barbarian. Let me, why don't you talk through the adventure we went on today? I'm going to get signed in.

Starting point is 00:45:53 I'm going to see if I can pull up the... So we started in this town that has this like effectively like haunted castle thing. The person that hired us there brought us into this basement. We got introduced to the task that we needed to do um for some reason he had a body there um that he revealed and then just kind of like looked at for a while um until it's like stomach exploded and there's weird larva stuff and then linus tried to eat one um yeah i did try to eat one i think i ended up taking some poison damage yes yeah um and then after we killed those things we go to the castle go down into the bottom and we engage in combat

Starting point is 00:46:32 we roll for initiative so tell me something um for the people who don't play dnd how would you how would you like explain what the heck dnd is it's it's like if you if you took um generally uh i believe dnd kind of has to be this way but most most tabletop things i would say are generally fantasy if you took a fantasy rpg co-op game and you tried to instead of making it a video game you made it a tabletop game well there you go a lot of original video game versions of fantasy rpg games are like a hundred percent based on dnd they're either campaigns that the original writers or game developers ran with their friends back in the day and they just still had the notes for um that was like genuinely a way that some old games were were made um a lot of

Starting point is 00:47:23 the ways that the mechanics in those games work were based on D&D, all that kind of stuff. So kind of instead of going forward like things did, if you go backwards, you can kind of figure out how it worked. So basically, the real challenge of the scenario today was that they had to carry me a level 5 Lightfoot Halfling Barbarian with a constitution of 8.

Starting point is 00:47:48 And what was my other particularly stupid strength strength of eight as well yeah strength of eight which which i know that might not mean much but essentially that's a very low number um that's i believe as low as you can possibly go um and those are the two stats that he should have the highest and an armor class of 10 also low i i dumped all of my i dumped all of my additional points into uh charisma and then once i capped out charisma i dumped the rest into wisdom you never got to use your paint kit i know i i grabbed the most i grabbed the most interesting inventory items that I could find. So I brought an abacus with me down to the dungeon. I brought some painter's supplies. I brought a whip, which I did end up using.

Starting point is 00:48:32 I attempted to use my plus six animal handling talent to tame a mouse. And it turns out that according to the dungeon master anyway, mice are bound to run away when you crack a whip but then they followed you later yeah yeah i don't know she told me the mice were following me again later but by that time we were fighting this like moth demon moth thing demon yeah moth demon thing so i gotta say that i i see how it could be a ton of fun. Like if you got into it, like I've my big thing and I've always kind of, I've always kind of been of the mind that like,

Starting point is 00:49:10 Oh man, I just, honestly, I just, I can't get into this and I'm still, I'm, I have that. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:49:18 Today's today's experience has caused that opinion to completely stay exactly the same because it's it's just obvious that there is so much to know and not just for the dungeon master but also for the players if you want the game to progress smoothly yeah like there were clearly times when the fact that i had no idea what i was doing i mean aside from being a troll and trying to lick everything that i found on the floor um that it just it kind of slowed down the progression of the game because i don't know what characteristics affect which things i might attempt to do or or whatever that that is true for a lot i guess not as much anymore

Starting point is 00:49:58 as games are getting more and more simplified but that is true for a lot of things and a lot of games in general yeah so that's the big reason why i kind of like i look at and i just go yeah i i have no idea how i would how i would possibly get into this but to just play and be taken along for the ride totally fun yeah yeah totally totally different from any other games that i've played before and it was uh it was actually it was it was pretty fun will i do it again probably no time soon but um especially because i don't think if anyone were to watch the vod of that uh mission today that anyone would invite me to play i i i would i i at one point had an opportunity to contribute to the assault on the the monster and i decided to eat my um food pretzels and trail mix

Starting point is 00:50:47 yeah eat my trail mix instead and then it's a good choice i i did throw my javelin at the monster just well in the direction of the monster roughly yeah i did exactly zero damage to the opposing team um and then then Luke actually managed to almost tank the entire opponent that we had today. Bonked him. Bonked him. Because Luke apparently knows what he's doing, even though I...

Starting point is 00:51:15 I haven't played actual D&D in a really long time, but I've played a bunch of tabletop systems. Yeah, it was fun. So thanks, Filthy filthy lot for the invite and uh good luck with your with your new show and all that good stuff someone in chat said where can we spectate this lovely content i'm assuming it will be a a vod i have no idea how they've got things set up because they've taken some fairly uh unique approaches like for example they're they're premiering their new show today right like i said well they decided to live stream it to twitch and then i actually don't know if there's a vod oh yeah looks like

Starting point is 00:52:01 looks like there's a vod yeah it looks like they do have a vod on twitch though yes so if you go to a filthy lot one word yeah you guys can you guys can go check out the vod luke luke played too he was he was very helpful i was probably a lot less interesting but oh man i i had fun i did too i had fun i tried to steal from the quest giver like immediately yeah and then i lost i lost hit points well steal from the quest giver like immediately yeah and then i lost i lost hit points well not technically the quest giver no the corpse you tried to loot oh that's right i tried to his like that yeah yeah i don't even know why he attacked me i don't or did i try to maybe i did try to steal from the quest giver oh no i did i tried to loot the corpse that was there

Starting point is 00:52:40 like immediately he like smashed your finger i thought i was playing final fantasy you just loot all the things yeah you're like in someone's house like having a conversation with we smash your jars one sec can i just we break all your pottery i need i need rupees now i have a confession i have not touched my computer in the last week because whoa i just I just have been busy and also it's it's more work than I want to do the things that I want to do um is that a form of quitting no no I don't have to use my computer at home ever and it's still well like okay okay I shouldn't say I haven't touched like I've sent some emails and stuff like it's it Like it's still my daily driver computer. I haven't pulled up my laptop at home to use. No, no, I just, I haven't.

Starting point is 00:53:31 I interpreted that as like you avoided that computer. I didn't game all week. Okay. I did play some Mario Kart with my kids, but that doesn't count. Yeah, I didn't game all week. So I don't really have any updates on the Linux challenge, but you alluded in the pre-show

Starting point is 00:53:44 to having some significant updates. Yeah, so we didn't really have any updates on the Linux challenge, but you alluded in the pre-show to having some significant updates. Hit me. Yeah, so we didn't really, so the last challenge we were like thinking about doing it this week and then we technically have more time because we have until the 10th, I think, for me. Yeah, something like that. That's till next Wednesday.

Starting point is 00:54:00 And then like it could extend, whatever. We have one more challenge that we need to do one more specific challenge yeah that goes alongside us just having to use it all the time um i have increased the amount of computers really my laptop you're going linux on the laptop on the razor blade yeah interesting okay yeah tell me about this oh well i i have said from the very there's there's things that linux is really really really really good at and there's things that are you know a little rough and this whole challenge is based around gaming so we've been kind of shoved headfirst into a lot of the stuff that's pretty rough right right but like the and and i feel like maybe we haven't done this enough because the community's really butthurt but then i feel

Starting point is 00:54:51 like community's gonna be really butthurt no matter what we do so i don't know um but like infrastructure professional server hosting all that kind of stuff amazing yeah unparalleled and actually did we even talk about part three of the challenge where we had to do mundane tasks like print a document i don't think we have did we talk about it last week guys let us let me know in the floatplane chat uh if we talked about that last week yeah um but yeah the i feel like the other end of the spectrum from the like crazy high level stuff that it's really good at yeah i think the really basic stuff it's also quite good at yeah so i've seen a lot of criticism of the challenge from people that are saying linux is totally fine for the

Starting point is 00:55:33 average user because all they need to do is check their email and like edit a spreadsheet once in a while and it's like yes but it was always a gaming perspective yeah it was never my grand perspective because you're right my grand totally could use linux um yeah so all i ever use my laptop for is is like teams which i've kind of figured out at this point, it's not a problem anymore. Slack and a web browser. So it's totally fine. Yeah. And I'm genuinely finding at this point in time that I'm getting more,

Starting point is 00:56:16 because my whole argument and the reason why I abandoned Linux last time that I abandoned it, because I tried Linux, I think four years ago. Yeah. And I tried it for a little bit. And then I was really frustrated because it kept getting in my way of just working. Because all I wanted to do was turn the computer on, work, and turn it off.

Starting point is 00:56:34 But we used the example that I've given in the past on Wanshow, I believe, was that updating Discord was like a chore. But I used Discord at that point in time for Floatplane, so I needed it right and it was it was annoying to update it now discord's super easy super easy and people brought that up before i had installed linux at all so i installed linux this time and yeah updating discord's easy updating slack is easy updating teams is easy updating your browser is easy all the things that i need to do for work, honestly, at this point in time, Linux is getting in my way less than Windows. I believe it'd be easier to use. So I'm trying to go in that direction

Starting point is 00:57:11 because if that was my argument in the past, now Windows is losing. So I should be using Linux on my work computer. So I am. Greg Yo says, Linux is amazing for gaming, period. I'm baffled about the hardships you have had maybe using an amd gpu would help you just a little i've seen a ton of comments suggesting that our problem

Starting point is 00:57:31 is our gpu that is not the problem i don't think i've ran into any issues that are related to no the gpu experience has honestly after all the warnings that i got other than navigating through their driver which is terrible like the uh the software yeah the control panel is terrible but in terms of just like playing games the gpu driver has been the least problematic we did run into some performance issues in ano and maybe but that wasn't a big deal yeah that also might have been my fault for installing you play using lutris and then downloading ano instead of installing ano using lutris but that's the kind of stuff i'm talking about where it's like no this is actually not intuitive and not user friendly uh we should talk

Starting point is 00:58:17 about the um apparently we did not talk about part three so we've filmed part three already yeah um guys there's some people asking like where the heck are these freaking videos? So part one has been delayed to YouTube because we've had embargoed releases, time-sensitive videos that have kept bumping it and bumping and bumping it because the Linux challenge is not, I understand it's time-sensitive from your perspective,

Starting point is 00:58:40 you want to watch it, but it's not time-sensitive from a, oh my goodness, this product launches today. If we don't cover it today, no one will care about it tomorrow. We must launch this video. So we, um, so we've been pushing it, pushing it, pushing and pushing it. And then part two has been delayed by the absolute cluster hump of footage that I provided to the editors. Um, my screen cap is like kind of tied to my doc of just general notes but then my scripts while they are derived from my doc of general notes also have

Starting point is 00:59:12 other thoughts that i've added after the fact yeah so putting together the exact moment of screen cap that's supposed to accompany every point that i make in those is going to be very challenging and i would have gone through and done it for them, but I have been absolutely slammed. I have not had any time to look at it. Part three is delayed by part one not being up on YouTube and part two not being edited and up on Floatplane, but it is shot. Luke and I have done all of the work for it. And what was, I mean, I think we can definitely tease part of it,

Starting point is 00:59:41 but part three, we decided to pivot. Part three was supposed to be game launchers but because i just have not kept up with getting all the game launchers installed i was like hey luke can we make part four part three and he was like yeah yeah pretty much i don't care so part three ended up being non-gaming so james created a series of challenges for us and how did you do it was uh don't don't give them the exact like score or anything but like how'd you feel about non-gaming on linux i was pretty confident going into it um but i i i like i was pretty confident before i knew what the tasks were but i was a bit concerned. I like pre-downloaded a few programs, just expecting some things because we had time

Starting point is 01:00:28 limits for each one of the tasks. Yeah. And I didn't want like downloading things to affect me heavily. Right. And I knew like I could probably argue like, let's just not worry about the amount of time it took to download the thing because that's going to be the same on pretty much everything. But I just didn't want to even think about it. So I like pre-downloaded like GIMP, which is a photo editing software. the same on pretty much everything but i just didn't want to even think about it um so i like

Starting point is 01:00:45 pre-downloaded like gimp which is a photo editing software and like a couple things that i was like you know what editing a photo is probably a pretty standard task let's make sure i have the stuff to do that and like just do a couple things as long as i could get them if i remember correctly my my rule for that was that it was getting it from the package manager so if it was brain dead easy to find it and get it then i like let myself get it before i read what the tasks were and then i read the tasks at which point i was not doing anything until the the event started and i was like sweet you're ready to rock this is gonna be really easy i didn't even need anything that i pre-downloaded the the like the one thing that i told you on the call i had to get that during the challenge because i didn't pre-download that yeah um one thing that I told you on the call, I had to get that during the challenge

Starting point is 01:01:26 because I didn't pre-download that. Yeah. So like, because that wasn't in the package manager. So yeah, and it ended up being incredibly easy to the point where certain tasks there, one very much in particular, and you probably know what I'm talking about, was genuinely notably easier,

Starting point is 01:01:41 I would argue on Linux than I've had experiences doing those types of things. We can spoil that one. I think you're talking about printing. Yes. So my ancient printer, there's only one place. It's like some weird third-party driver repository that still has drivers for it.

Starting point is 01:01:58 It's a CLP310 or something. Maybe you'll find another place for the drivers. Don't send it to me i don't care i have it stored on my nas now um and it's like this whole it's this it's this msi that you have to extract to actually grab the the stupid what are they dot i don't remember what the extension of the file type is dot ini is it is that it i don't know it doesn't matter the point is to find the actual like driver file and then you have to go through and manually add the printer point it at the specific file and then it'll it'll load and it works perfectly everything is fine because even though it's a windows 7

Starting point is 01:02:35 driver i think it's a super old printer so even though it's a windows 7 driver microsoft has actually done an outstanding job of maintaining driver compatibility from Windows Vista, really. You can sometimes use Vista drivers on Windows 10 and you'll get away with it. Not every time, to be very clear. So it works perfectly if you can figure out how to install the freaking thing. On Linux, I was like, uh-oh, how hard is this going to be because it's an ancient printer? Ad network printer, I was like, oh, how hard is this going to be? Because this ancient printer ad network printer. It was like, you mean this one?

Starting point is 01:03:08 I was like, yes. And it was like, OK. Yeah, but mine, like my girlfriend has a printer. I have not had a printer, I think, ever. I've just always used like other people's, my parents, whatever. And every once in a while, when the printer turns on, I'll just get a little like system notification that's like, oh, printer connected.

Starting point is 01:03:32 So leading up until this task, I've just been like, I wonder if that works. I just have no reason to print anything ever. Like I haven't had to print something in years. Yeah, Jamal Taylor. That's what happened. That's right. Samsung sold their printer division to HP

Starting point is 01:03:45 who gave exactly zero flying Fs about properly supporting the old Samsung versions of the printers. That's why I can't just go on Samsung's website and download the driver package for it anymore. And I remember now. There you go. But yeah, printing,

Starting point is 01:04:01 like one of the most like stereotypical things that's annoying to do on windows yes like attaching printers was just the easiest thing ever and we've been saying for years like this should be how is printing so broken and then it turns out it's microsoft's fault yeah good to know nice yeah yeah thanks for that thanks for clearing all of that up for me real good it's ridiculous so that's going to be an interesting one we've got us i think it's 12 challenges that we have to go through and then we have a time limit that is allotted to each challenge you may not spend longer than 15 minutes and i did run into one kind of linux linux ism there was something that is very simple to do if you happen to know the utility to use

Starting point is 01:04:46 so luke blew right through it oh and i was not able to complete it was luck within my 15 minutes now i could have done it i could have done it if i had like two hours to dedicate to it to find finally find a guide but you guys are going to see, especially in a time-constrained environment, which can happen without the artificial 15-minute timer. But if you don't have all the time in the world to figure out how to do a basic freaking thing, it can be an extremely frustrating experience.

Starting point is 01:05:21 And that particular one ended up not being simple when you see how not simple mine was it'll blow your mind you'll be like how is this not one button how is this not completely automatic like it was for yours and like i just tried to google it like like what what would i do because the first thing that i sorry i was scratching my leg the the first thing that i uh did was just google the exact name of the program that i like using on windows um and then the word linux after it yeah and just lo and behold it happens to have a linux version so that was very lucky um but i just tried googling the term i would have used if i had no knowledge of that program in the past. It did not come up.

Starting point is 01:06:06 Yeah. So I didn't Google anything because I already had an application pre-installed as part of my distro or desktop environment, whatever determines which application I got. Sure. That supported that file format and supported that functionality. Right. But required me to go and create like a certificate in order to do it. And the guide for how to do that was like, really focused on like more like web developers as opposed to what I was

Starting point is 01:06:39 trying to do. And that's the thing about Google. Google search is amazing. If you happen to be looking for the answer that everyone else who used those keywords was looking for but as soon as you've got a keyword that sounds like something but is actually something else you are done i've actually run into situations where um i don't even remember what microsoft stupid bing um i've actually run into situations where, I can't even remember what Microsoft's stupid, Bing. I've actually run into situations where Bing has managed to get me the result I need that Google can't provide me because it sucks so much.

Starting point is 01:07:18 Because it's just like, what are you looking for? Oh, here's some random crap. Thanks, Bing. This is another example of what i'm talking about the bit man says comparing windows gaming on linux isn't super fair either it's more comparable to emulating other platforms games egps5 than running native windows games this is the same kind of argument that i see when it's like no it's not fair it's not fair to run that ddr5 on that one or it's not fair to turn hyper threading on an intel cpu that was a thing back in the day it's not fair to run that DDR5 on that one. Or it's not fair to turn hyper-threading on an Intel CPU. That was a thing back in the day.

Starting point is 01:07:47 It's not fair to turn on hyper-threading because AMD CPUs don't have it. So you should eliminate variables. It's like, no, no. What we're evaluating is the user experience and users want to play video games. And so if your options are install this or install this and your goal is play video games,

Starting point is 01:08:04 it doesn't matter from a user standpoint user experience it doesn't matter if one of them is emulating or rather not emulating um it doesn't matter if one of them is emulating and one of them is running it natively um it just matters what the user experience is and there's also there's also little things like yeah um it's not fair or unfair it just is yeah sorry like i it's not fair i personally think that and you're gonna run into this type of stuff on windows too 100 okay so i ran into some really dumb stuff on windows today i can't remember what it was really dumb stuff on windows all the time yeah like we're not we're not i remember we're not trying to be windows crusaders what yeah. So here's a really dumb one.

Starting point is 01:08:45 Open VPN. Okay. So sometimes I'll accidentally leave it connected and I'll put my computer to sleep, like on my laptop. If I wake it up and I still have the folder that I was navigating using my VPN connection open,

Starting point is 01:09:00 no amount of reconnecting it and reconnecting it will allow me to... Windows Explorer just gets confused yeah i will not be able to do anything with that folder i have to go restart the i have to close open vpn restart the explorer process open open vpn connect to it then open explorer then i'll be able to navigate and it's just like these stupid kinds of dances solid mixer i disagree that command line is not a good user experience for a gamer there is no disagree that just you're just objectively wrong i'm sorry thank you for

Starting point is 01:09:33 being one of my paid subscribers love you but you're actually just wrong there is there is there i should say there are uh there are people that are willing to take you up on the challenge of being able to complete uh operations faster in a command line than you can in a gui really okay i think those people if i could argue who are they i just somebody on twitter i don't know okay i thought you meant like the one of the float plane staff no no no yeah um i think those people would be looking for intentionally loaded situations well yeah sure i mean if you have to buried if you have to copy 8 000 files or something like that yeah sure i don't even know necessarily but like i i think there might be situations where it is better i think overall you're gonna be better using a gui but anyways solid mixer it's not subjective for 99 of the things the typical gamer would need to do on

Starting point is 01:10:30 their computer it is faster to use a gui because that's that's part of the problem right is is sorry i keep moving away from the mic you do uh that's that i think part of the problem is that we're we're dealing with terms that some people might be using in different ways. So when he's saying a gamer, well, there could be someone who's a DevOps Linux admin at work and a gamer at home. And when they want to do stuff on their computer, they're so native to the command line that they're just going to be able to do it faster.

Starting point is 01:11:02 That's fine. Right, but that just means they suck at using a gui then sure in most situations yeah and like a lot of gaming things are visual anyways so like yeah you can probably find a way to you can definitely start your games through the command line but it's going to be faster like i see a lot of arguments um for installing applications using the command line on linux spooky dookie but the problem with that is that it assumes that you already know to the exact character what the name of the package you're trying to install is.

Starting point is 01:11:32 Well, you can also query a list. But, I mean, you'd still need to know. That's not faster than the command line then. You should use your package manager. Or rather, you should use your graphical package manager. If it's there. Or you should Google it. So either way, this is one of those things where unless you happen to have that requisite

Starting point is 01:11:49 knowledge and i feel like a lot of people live in a bit of a bubble oh yeah oh yeah there's a lot of there's a lot of that going on where they're assuming people have this requisite knowledge when i say gamer i don't mean you you might be a gamer sure that's cool but you're also a lot of other things maybe you're a father maybe you that's cool. But you're also a lot of other things. Maybe you're a father. Maybe you're a martial artist. Maybe you're a musician, right? When I say gamer, I'm talking about gamers in general.

Starting point is 01:12:13 In general, gamers do not want to use the command line and is not more efficient. The core question. So we talked earlier about how the core idea is using Linux for gaming. So we talked earlier about how the core idea is using Linux for gaming. The core question is essentially is now the year of the Linux desktop. And one of the prerequisites for that to be a thing is gaming. For a lot of people.

Starting point is 01:12:36 For a lot of people. Not everyone. But I'd say in a lot of situations, it almost doesn't even matter. Because if it's a family computer sure if gaming is important for one of the people yes they're gonna push that argument really hard there's a lot of forever alones that don't have a family to share their computer that's true they might already be running linux i can't believe you just did that you You set me up. You knew that was coming. That was so on purpose.

Starting point is 01:13:08 You can't even say you can't believe I just did that. When you literally like, you threw the alley-oop. I can't believe you've done this. You're like, bro, get it. Anyways. So the idea is, is it time yet? And like, while the experience for you as a gamer who uses Linux might be all right, the general population doesn't want to learn command line, and it's not going to change.

Starting point is 01:13:30 It's not going to happen. That is literally never going to happen. I promise you that. The whole industry is going the other direction. Solid Mixer says, hey, that's cool if we disagree. Thanks for doing the challenge anyway. It's cool to see you guys trying it out. Yeah, I'm enjoying it.

Starting point is 01:13:45 I'm having fun. Great response. So one landmine thing that we ran into, and this was not pre-planned. This was not planned before we started this challenge. I don't even think this was planned before that night. But we wanted to play Supreme Commander Forge Alliance Forever. We wanted to play it because we played on Windows.

Starting point is 01:14:04 It's a fun game. You should try it. We also had some amount of information which was that linus had looked it up and there was an official guide from the community official from community whatever yeah um to get forge alliance forever working on linux so going into this project we know there's a game that we want to play and we know that it works on linux right yeah this is one of those problems where like the argument was brought up earlier and the thing that i was actually trying to refer this to is a little in the past now but the argument came up that like uh well you're just playing games that like aren't really compatible with linux or no one's figured out the compatibility layer stuff or whatever else it's like okay in this situation we actually tried

Starting point is 01:14:50 to find a game that people had already figured out all the stuff for and lo and behold you can get it to run but the guide is super super super out of date yeah to the point where there's packages that it's telling you to download that are not in those repositories anymore so you actually can't get them uh you have to you have to find a different way to get them and that different way to get them is extremely unintuitive um to the point where there was people suggesting ways for us to get it that were like self-proclaimed linux nerds and experts and those ways were wrong yes which is fine like i'm not blaming them but like all i'm saying is it was very unintuitive and it was difficult to do and that's a bad experience compared to the alternative experience on Windows, where you download the.exe file,

Starting point is 01:15:46 you install it, you log in. So I, well, usually, they work very hard. Sometimes they have some downtime. They're a great community. I actually posted in the Discord. That's why I was trying to pull up my post. Just as a user, I just posted in the Technical Help Discord. I did use my username,

Starting point is 01:16:03 but a lot of the people there don't know who the heck I am. And I was like, Hey, so I'm running on Linux. Is that like, can this guide? I had a hard time following this guide. And they were like,

Starting point is 01:16:13 Ooh, that guide. Uh, yeah, there's really no excuse for this given that like some of the really prominent members of the community actually daily drive Linux and game exclusively in forge alliance forever on linux they were just like yeah okay here yeah i found my post anyone want to update

Starting point is 01:16:32 the how to install faf on linux doc i haven't been able to play for three weeks lol and uh they're like which doc are you using um i post the wiki their own wiki and i'm like java is kicking my ass they're like no someone else pops in yeah that's out of date use this forum thread i believe there's a lucha script um i don't think so their wiki didn't have the lucha script also i think i tried the lucha script i haven't tried it since they suggested it so maybe it's been updated or something but i thought we tried the lucha script as part of the process and i think it was there being something not good with some kind of problem and that's yes that's community thing but one of the problems with the linux setup having tons of different distros having tons of different des having a lot of

Starting point is 01:17:17 community base is you always have a circular loop of excuses that you can go through yeah and none of it matters user experience yes two words yep that's it yep um so the user experience spoiler alert for non-gaming very good very good i would argue very good maybe even excellent yeah which is why i'm switching to to say it again which is why i'm genuinely switching my work laptop to Linux. And I genuinely think it's going to be a significantly better experience. But that doesn't mean that it's perfect.

Starting point is 01:17:51 And so what I'm hoping is that there are definitely some members of the Linux community that do not want to hear anything other than that Linux is perfect and amazing. But there are a lot of members of the community that do seem to be seeing this feedback

Starting point is 01:18:03 and understanding that actually there are things that need to improve and if an above average technical user is running into problems that are as simple as okay i'm not able to open and manipulate this type of document without ending up down six rabbit holes of ways to create a local security certificate on your system like this is ridiculous ridiculous that something's got to change. And it's not something that is fundamentally wrong with Linux. It's just something that needs to be optimized across the various distros and desktop environments.

Starting point is 01:18:36 Or ideally, you just have a consolidation take place for desktop environments and for distros. Because right now now one of the biggest problems is the fragmentation. And it's like I understand that a lot of them have their own strengths, but I also believe that if there were more people working together towards a single goal, progress would probably be faster in at least some ways yeah there's also yeah i don't know there's also bits like like this came up in in the epos vox video i don't know if you've seen it oh i didn't apparently epos vox was like doing this already oh really but hadn't released any content on it so like oops no we did not steal the idea he doesn't say that we did sorry he doesn't say that we did sorry he didn't say that we did yeah well either way i mean it's still awkward yeah like i i the stupid

Starting point is 01:19:31 uh kyle's uh bathroom gaming setup video i had wanted to make that video for like two years i had pitched it to so many brands and like the week or two weeks before we finally finally released our video he's like i put a gaming stuff in the bathroom uh same thing with austin his uh walmart gaming pc like we we ended up delaying it because pandemic and then delaying it because we were working with a brand on it blah blah blah austin released his like a week before ours i i if you remember there was the there was that we we ran we filmed a nerd sports which is the hockey nerd sports video i like cut my ankles up then i had to come back to the office and film the networking wall video and then go directly to a plane

Starting point is 01:20:14 and that ends up launching like while brandon and i are in switzerland or wherever the heck yeah but jay's video on a networking wall goes out like one to two days earlier or something and that was one of the biggest like bro moves jay's ever done for me which was essentially when that came out like obviously these things have much bigger runtime than that i obviously didn't copy them and when his community was like hey man luke copied you his response was like no and i was like thank you that's actually so cool i really i will never forget that and i appreciate it a lot um but yeah uh we should probably move on evga lost a literal truckload of gpus oh crap sorry before we do yeah what i was trying to say

Starting point is 01:21:01 about the epos vox video right is and i have mentioned this on this show and i strand strongly defend it uh if you're running like arch the whole internet says you shouldn't run arch so whatever um but i would say that a problem with that is there's a fair amount of uh distros that are based on arch uh garuda is the specific one that EposVox is talking about, that have a lot of the same issues, but are advertised to general audience. I had Garuda blasted to me a ton. Oh yeah, I got a ton of recommendations for Manjaro. People are like,

Starting point is 01:21:36 where did you get the idea of using Manjaro? From all the people who said that it was- It was one of the highest voted ones on one of the polls we ran. From the people who said that it was good because it was like more bleeding edge and better for newer hardware. It's actually really interesting to see a lot of the talking points that get parroted about why we're having a bad experience it's because we don't have an amd gpu actually has nothing to do

Starting point is 01:21:52 with that or it's because we're running really exotic hardware the only thing in my setup that i think qualifies as exotic now that i know that the thunderbolt 3 dock works absolutely effortlessly is my audio mixer everything else about my setup is like what what exotic what it's a thread ripper 3000 which is not a new cpu or platform by any stretch of the imagination it's a 2000 series nvidia card that's a that's a that's not even a consumer chip is it um it's a workstation chip but like it doesn't matter the point is just that it's a cpu from like it was released almost two years ago linux is all like tuned fairly well a workstation chip, but it doesn't matter. The point is just that it's a CPU from like, it was released almost two years ago. Linux is all tuned fairly well for workstation stuff.

Starting point is 01:22:29 Sorry, keep going. Yeah, so I've got like, again, I've got like an 18-month-old GPU. And then beyond that, what makes a computer exotic? Yeah, I don't have anything exotic. Nothing? Yeah. I see a lot of people just kind of going,

Starting point is 01:22:44 oh, there's a problem must be this thing i heard but you have to actually look at what the problems are in order to find out if they're correlated with that like thing you heard about before um nick light is poking his head around the corner what can i do for you nick the mics are super super directional so they're not going to be able to hear you pretty much at all i'm just i'm trying to make sure you don't stay here all night you should start doing merch messages soon because there's a lot of them oh okay all right i will i will have a look at that there's definitely a couple of topics we want to look at pretty quick here um evga oh sorry i still got to get this out about the arch thing

Starting point is 01:23:21 he talks in his video about how there's sentiment on arch boards that updating your system is user error oh yeah 100 that's crazy that's absolutely like that's crazy if you want okay and i've talked about this before yeah if you're super super hardcore there being a distro for you is cool yes and if updating is user error because you should know what is in all of those updates and if it causes a problem that's on you that's fine in those super hardcore environments i actually support that that's totally cool but when there's when when there's other distros that don't have the red flags that arch does yeah because they might even be based on arch that's a little rough yeah like and then fragmentation becomes kind of weird because like why why are you even making garuda why do you why do you exist

Starting point is 01:24:14 or why are you why are you uh advertising it in the way that you are that might even be a different i mean it's you gotta words are a funny thing right we got to avoid the word advertising because i my understanding is nobody in or yeah yeah garuda doesn't advertise nobody's paying to promote garuda so it becomes just this um it becomes this really complicated sort of game of messenger or messenger what's a telephone it becomes this complicated game of telephone where you've got users who are understandably enthusiastic about the things that they love um creating narratives that just don't make any sense um and like maybe there is some really big reason for it i i've done zero almost zero independent research on on garuda i was just watching the epos box video check it out it's pretty good i saw it recommended quite a few times but yes exactly i got it

Starting point is 01:25:09 recommended to me a bunch and if i didn't do like tons of research into it i might not have known that the community would have told me that updating my system was user error and if i knew that i would have never used that distro but it's not like garuda is often not communicated with the same red flags that arch has and i think it should be i don't know whatever moving on evga lost an entire truckload of gpus to uh bandits essentially uh so they said that they were stolen from a truck en route from san francisco to their southern their Southern California disty center. And the notice states the company is aware of each graphics card taken during the incident with individuals values ranging from 330 US dollars to 2000 US dollars. They were quick to note that it is a criminal and civil offense to buy or receive property that has been stolen.

Starting point is 01:26:01 And they went a step further and actually canceled the warranties on all of the cards in the shipment. So they will not register or honor any warranty or upgrade claims on these products. So if you're buying an EVGA GPU online for the next little bit, maybe think twice unless you're getting it from a reputable site. Now, discussion question here from Colin is, what do you think are the odds that these are just going to be sold off en masse to a mining operation? Yeah, that is definitely, definitely what is going to happen to them. You don't accidentally steal a truckload of GPUs. You have some idea what the heck you're going to do with those when you're done.

Starting point is 01:26:38 Our next topic, Facebook is deleting its book of faces. Just days after rebranding itself, Facebook announced plans to delete a trove of the facial recognition data that they've collected on more than a billion individuals. Metas, I'm not calling them meta, Facebook's VP of artificial intelligence says the social network was making the change because of many concerns about the place of facial recognition technology in society, adding that the company still saw the software as a powerful tool, but every new technology brings with it potential for both benefit and concern yeah that's a big i wonder why facebook actually got rid of it all yeah it like purely because they want to be seen in a better light so this uh feature was called deep face and it was actually

Starting point is 01:27:22 introduced in december 2010 to help save save time tagging people in photos. It would automatically suggest people who appeared in a user's digital photo album, and you could just tag them with a click instead of typing a whole thing, which is actually a pretty cool feature. And I can see why people would want to use stuff like that. So Facebook is deleting the data, but several of Meta's current projects show that the company has no plans to stop collecting data about people's bodies. Hyper-realistic avatars could be coming, which track your facial movements. They've got a new VR headset that tracks the aforementioned facial movements and eye movement. recognition into their Ray-Ban glasses collab. Okay, that is actually something that I would love to have as someone who's so bad with faces and names. Just like a pair of glasses that did absolutely nothing but pop

Starting point is 01:28:10 up the name of whoever I'm talking to. I would love that. It's privacy nightmare. That ain't happening. Ain't happening. It'd be kind of nice if it could learn off of local data. So you could like, let me add you to my contacts yeah i mean

Starting point is 01:28:27 that i think would be less invasive but i could still see people having concerns but man when i'd hit them trade shows i'd be like i know who you are i know who you are i actually don't but my glasses my glasses remember yeah um don't install that app craig says a criminal might be in it this is from uh jonathan horst on wednesday at web summit 2021 software senior vice president at apple craig federighi said in a keynote that side loading is a criminal's best friend you wouldn't side load an app here's the quote i want to address an argument i hear a lot let people choose whether or not to side load let them judge the risks but history shows us that it doesn't play out the way we'd hope because even if you have no intention of side loading

Starting point is 01:29:14 people are routinely coerced or tricked into doing it so if you want to install pokemon go on that old phone that it says it's not compatible on even though it definitely works for sure don't do it apparently i guess i mean because you might be a criminal he's got a fair point i can't sit here and go blah blah blah the user experience user experience user experience it's it's a fair point here that the user experience could be bad if you're not an educated user i mean all you have to do that's the argument here at all how does that make any sense he's basically saying the user experience for a non-educated but it's not criminal well okay pokemon go wouldn't be but like a cyber criminal could trick you into sideloading an app but does that mean that it should be like banned or something like what's

Starting point is 01:30:01 well that's his argument yeah that's stupid i hate it all right it's because i think that like i don't know how this applies but this feels like in the same kind of line it's right to repair like sideloading is already very hidden on your phone it's not something you're gonna naturally just do no but i would i would bet hard money that the vast vast majority of people have never sideloaded an app that's probably true so who cares this is not something that's affecting like the vast vast majority of average random users and it would be very annoying if it was impossible well it is on ios yeah and it is annoying uh-huh this is really funny jonathan says can we please stop referring to it as side loading it's installing and we've been doing it for decades yes that's

Starting point is 01:30:50 fair like that would be like saying on on on linux you can't install things unless it's in the package manager now or on windows saying like oh you know that microsoft store that you probably don't like you have to use it for literally everything now. I think that it could be as simple as Apple just putting roadblocks in place that go, you know, don't do this. But then if the Linux challenge has taught me anything, it's that users who aren't familiar with the type of errors

Starting point is 01:31:16 that a particular platform spits out. Yes, listen to what I say. Yeah, yes, do as I say, or whatever the thing I had to type in was, might not realize what a big deal that error is. The number of people that are still kind of writing that is kind of mind-blowing. You did that from the package manager, though. If installing an app on the iOS app store deleted your UI, I would say, yeah, maybe there's an issue with that, too.

Starting point is 01:31:41 But they're talking about sideloading. If you were doing something super advanced that's that's different installing steam through a package manager isn't like a super advanced action there there's there should be no expectation there if your user experience isn't complete trash that it's going to like destroy your ui what people are mad about is that it clearly said what it was going to do yeah it also clearly said it also giant book worth of other stuff yeah and it also most of the things that were very scary that it was removing were not things that an average user would even be able to read and understand what they are like

Starting point is 01:32:15 if you look at it take take off the take off the you know years of linux experience that you have you might not even know that de is going to be short for desktop environment why would you know that why would anyone other than a linux user be familiar with that terminology nobody else calls it that um so anyway switch modder gary bowser pleads guilty owes nintendo four and a half million dollars gary has admitted actually i'm gonna call him bowser bowser has admitted that sxos device's primary design was to play pirated roms and was part of a group called team excelsior he was arrested last year in the dominican republic and then extradited to the united

Starting point is 01:32:55 states executor sorry extradited team executor team executor. Did I call it the wrong thing? Excelsior? Did I call it that? Yeah. Oh, well, that's, like I said, very tired. All good. Admits he knowingly and willfully participated in a cyber criminal enterprise that hacked leading gaming consoles and that he developed, manufactured, marketed, and sold a variety of circumvention devices between June 2013 and last year.

Starting point is 01:33:21 Also created and supported ROM libraries. Nintendo alleges 65 to 150 million in losses from copyright infringement okay nintendo it doesn't quite work that way um and at one point actually released new switch hardware that was designed to to thwart these efforts and team executor then made new devices that could be soldered onto the switch's internal circuit board i actually haven't really kept up with the whole nintendo console modding thing now that it's so risky to mod it and they can like remotely brick your device um this is one of nicholas's uh nicholas plouffe's uh discussion points here should we stop buying nintendo games how else

Starting point is 01:33:59 will nintendo realize it doesn't make sense to prosecute homebrewers when their first party retro options suck they do they're really horrible from a legal standpoint no we don't really have a leg to stand on they are the rights holders but from a from a just you know attitude gamer attitude standpoint i totally see where you're coming from ploof and i will not be buying any of nintendo's just don't buy their retro retro switch stuff i i honestly don't do that it's it's terrible uh you you mentioned the like most people aren't going to know what de means so the float plane chat started making like random guesses like desert eagle yeah d dust like yeah yeah yeah i don't know uh we've got a couple more good topics here. Squid Game cryptocurrency was a scam.

Starting point is 01:34:46 Rugpull. Plot twist. You weren't able to get money back out of it when you bought in. And then out of nowhere, they just took everything. Get wrecked. Yep. So that happened. Be careful if you're going to mess around with cryptocurrency.

Starting point is 01:35:01 This one's from Anthony, and he's mad. Okay. EA Sports. It's he's mad. Okay. EA Sports. It's in the chain. Okay. EA CEO Andrew Wilson said during the most recent earnings call that NFTs and blockchain are the future of the industry. Anthony Young's take. No, they are effing not.

Starting point is 01:35:18 And he specifically highlighted a couple of keywords for me here. specifically highlighted a couple of keywords for me here. N, F, and T. Thank you, Anthony, for the steaming hot pile of take right there. EA hasn't laid any plans for how this will be accomplished, however. This is hot on the heels of Ubisoft's own plans to bring NFTs to its games just last week. Interestingly, Ubisoft talks of games using a play-to-earn model, which would dole out digital content to players

Starting point is 01:35:45 for playing the games presumably with longer play time getting rarer drops or something like that anthony goes i can see uh i can't see any way this could backfire as if i needed another reason to hate both of these companies nfts for the uninitiated are non-fungible tokens so it's a concept that ties ownership of a digital good to a ledger or to a blockchain in an effort to make the sale of digital assets more trustworthy. Here comes the Anthony rant. Do you want to read the Anthony rant? Sure.

Starting point is 01:36:10 I'm mad. This sounds great in theory, but there is a very real problem with NFTs where artists, far from getting paid for their work, are having their work or even tweets converted to NFTs and sold by third parties. Sometimes programmatically by bots, it's being abused for pump and dump schemes, and NFTs notoriously sell for ridiculous sums of money as a result. Several NFT games have launched and attempted to launch, many with stolen art assets made into NFTs. Some even, I'm just ad-libbing this bit but some even the cover art for the game like that one of the most obvious things you don't even need to play the game to see has been stolen art which is pretty epic um it's unsurprising that ea games

Starting point is 01:36:57 uh would want in but in the meaning of the term as it exists today i can't see this working out oh and nfts require a buttload of power because they typically use proof of work blockchains which is the thing yep valve for their part wants nothing to do with nfts and they have blocked cryptocurrency and nft games from the steam platform and in response to valve's ban tim sweeney announced that epic game store would welcome them after having criticized nfts for exactly the same reasons that Anthony's rant exists. So, yeah, thank you for your unwavering principles, Mr. Sweeney. But, hey.

Starting point is 01:37:39 I think NFTs are an interesting concept. I think NFTs are an interesting concept. I think the idea of having this non-fungible thing, this extremely modern version of a certificate of authenticity, one-of type of situation is a very interesting concept. I think a lot of the ways that it's currently being used is ridiculous um abusive and illegal which is why we are focused on selling you guys physical goods oh my word um there's a few this is a bit of a problem we've got 142 merch messages that have rolled in over the course of the show hey guys thank you very much for your support we are clearly not going to be able to read all of them,

Starting point is 01:38:25 but I'm going to get through at least a few of them. We need to get a character limit on that, please. Got it. Aaron. That's a good point. Thanks to the WAN show and LTT, I've reignited my interest in IT. Heck yeah.

Starting point is 01:38:37 The banana is pog. All right, cool. Should we do like old school tweets, 120 characters? Wow, people are super into the bananas. Yeah. Yeah, let's start with that and see how it goes uh jay said not that jay different jay i bought a 2080 ti a month before the 3000 series announcement i felt torn ever since if i made the right decision yeah you're fine you could still sell that for more than you like paid for it at this point uh jarth says

Starting point is 01:39:02 jarth got a stealth hoodie a mystery t-shirt reflective circuit t-shirt two desk pads good gravy what's the best way to clean the new spout lids um i'd recommend getting one of those little um like brush the circular brush things um also i would strongly recommend only putting water in water bottles just because it's way way easier to clean them you can throw the lid in the dishwasher if you really wanted to but do not put the bottle in the dishwasher all right um tau says how would you feel about your kids wanting to join facebook or instagram not yet not anytime soon uh paul yes we know the geek is back at intel so that's a good thing uh since i got a brand new pc says chris uh alexander hi longish time watcher of the channel

Starting point is 01:39:57 bought an evga x99 board i oh i bought the evga x99 board used in the og mineral oil pc from an ltx goer on reddit a while back unfortunately two capacitors fell off in shipping when it arrived i tried to fix it but the xeon i had to test with wasn't technically on the list of supported cpus and it didn't post the previous user had it working so not sure if it's my repair or the unsupported processor but i was wondering if there's a good board repair service you could recommend or if you wanted to have a go at fixing it in a video or something cool i can't promise you that we would want to do a video about that and honestly speaking i would say that an x99 board is probably not worth the cost of paying somebody else to do a repair for you to put a couple of caps back on. With that

Starting point is 01:40:46 said, maybe guys hit up the, oh, go with maybe Twitch chat. That's a bit of slower moving than the YouTube chat. See if you can post some resources for Alexander for a good guide to how to recap a motherboard. Cody, I'm a PhD student working with semiconductors and quantum dots. Here's some money for all the help the quantum dot videos have given me to explain to people what I do. Hey, thanks, Cody. Got that banana for scale Ethernet T-shirt. Patrick managed to grab one of the few remaining WAN show hoodies. Some of these messages are chungus.

Starting point is 01:41:21 Yeah, I might just not be able to do a lot of the really long ones thanks tyler thanks david um oh wow this is hilarious david managed to buy 307 dollars worth of stuff like one of basically everything hi linus one way to make the shipping cost to europe better is to order bigger by the way can you make the Linux streams you did with Luke on Twitch available as a VOD? They are on Floatplane somewhere. Sometimes they're hidden because there's a bit of a weird thing with

Starting point is 01:41:53 our live VODs where if we stream twice in the same day, it'll post as two video files on the same post. So you might have to look at some WAN shows and see if there's a second video file for some of them. But I believe they are all on there do you want to start doing some of these too sure uh deval uh full full throttle 099 says hi linus all right cool uh finally purchased from ltsstore.com been watching for 11 to 12 years now keep it up i'm

Starting point is 01:42:22 honored to be part of the community uh brian went hard bought the entire banana for scale pack i think it's called like bushel bananas or something we made like a bundle for it one of every color one of every color um also got three different lanyards and two spout lids and a beanie that's got to be one of the most interesting orders like ever you said i need a banana for scale for the scale bananas this is surprising ryan bought the banana bunch as well so did frank more people than i could have pot garrett more people than i could have possibly expected or buying the banana bunch they want all the bananas hand of banana it's called hand of bananas thanks alexander and john

Starting point is 01:43:06 pierce you know what they actually the name goes up there if they want to show their name anyway doesn't it so i don't probably need to do just like name shout outs do i no uh pierce asks though is there an archive of the newsletter i signed up but i haven't gotten anything yet love the merch keep up the high quality i have no idea i guess that's something that we could like maybe put as a blog on the page or something we guess that's something that we could like maybe put as a blog on the page or something we could try we could make we could make something for it yeah that's that's a pretty good idea um thanks pierce does that dissuade people from signing up for the newsletter uh i don't think i care as long as they're like going on the site and checking it

Starting point is 01:43:38 out and learning something i mean yeah whatever right that makes sense yeah um nathaniel could you guys sell a static grounding bracelet that doubles as like an everyday wear bracelet that's kind of a cool idea too isn't it aesthetic sorry nothing sorry i i love that idea i think that's so cool um all right you know what i'm gonna write that down, actually. It sounds like a design challenge, but, you know. Yeah. Well, the way that I imagine it is you would have it kind of detachable or something like that. So, everyday wear.

Starting point is 01:44:15 Whoops. Oh, it's backspace. ESD bracelet. Yeah, I like it. That's a cool idea. Okay, what's next? Will the Constellation shirt ever come back in stock yes thank you john uh thanks for all the great content thank you frank love the quality of your merch it is possible to see is it possible to see oh yeah there's

Starting point is 01:44:40 another person asking for previous versions of the leak so i think a lot of people must have liked the color theory one and they want to see more basically christopher i waited a week to order just to see it pop up on the screen oh i love it oh have you guys looked into making computer themed pin badges um yes yeah so we're we're working on sorry pinned that you mean like pins right yeah yeah yeah we're we're working on some pins uh sarah designed a gpu one that's going to be coming soon uh i'm talking to nick about what we can do for a lot of the time orders come with a free item it's usually a pack of stickers in fact it's always a pack of stickers right now but i want to explore whether our costs for pins could be low enough that we could actually make it your choice, whether you want to get a sticker pack, a pin, or maybe we could find like a fun little edible, like gamer gummies or something like that. And you could actually choose what you want.

Starting point is 01:45:36 And then we'll just make all those items available to buy. Like right now, you can't buy the sticker pack. And we've had some complaints about that. So we can make it. And we've also seen people complain that they don some complaints about that. So we can make it, and we've also seen people complain that they don't care about stickers. So making it people's option, whether they want the free item

Starting point is 01:45:49 or what free item they want, I think could be kind of cool. At least one person in chat got my aesthetic pun. Oh, sorry. I just completely didn't hear you. It's okay. Your products are amazing. I agree with 90% of what you guys do.

Starting point is 01:46:01 10% is a healthy difference. Plush Banana. I support this. Like Linus avoids challenges in beat saber signed nefanor thanks nefanor whoa ouch ouch got that fire uh francois says looking forward to the m1 max coverage yes it's coming and asks if gaming on mac os can take advantage of the horsepower so my short circuit unboxing of the first m1 max mac that i got my hands on i played me some uh oh bloody hell what's that game called deus ex um mankind divided okay yeah pretty cool it's a gaming mac william bought the entire banana for scale package and also an extra orange one um it's every single color but two oranges that's epic neom's apparently been waiting

Starting point is 01:46:59 for the wan hoodie for six months yeah i really shouldn't have started wearing this on camera so early uh nick got mad at me about how early i was wearing the thing but it certainly resulted in like crazy demand we already sold through almost all of our 4 000 units um they're just they're gone we've never seen anything quite like it hayden says thanks for selling the lid separate i've had my water bottle for almost two years and the original lid finally broke um i look forward to trying a new one uh yeah so we're also exploring other lid options and i think at some point in the future we'd love to uh see if there's a way to turn it into like a configurator uh one of the cool things that luke's team has been working on is a configurator for the desk pad yeah is there

Starting point is 01:47:41 any way for us to show that to them conveniently or no? But basically you enter the dimensions of your desk and then you can select your desk pad and it'll show you how good of a fit that desk pad will be for your desk. It's super rudimentary now, but I find that particularly because the measurements are in millimeters and in North America, a lot of desks are in inches.

Starting point is 01:48:04 We've seen people kind of have a hard time, at least mentally, visualizing how big that pad is going to look on their desk. And we want to make that a little bit easier for people. You keep going. I'm trying to get it. Thanks, Niam. Thanks, Kevin, too.

Starting point is 01:48:19 Got my WAN hoodie today, along with LTT water bottle for my nephew, stocking up on some more gifts for the holidays. Heck yeah. Dustin says, Anthony slash Linux Fox plush when? An Anthony plush. Yeah, there's no reason we would only do a Linus plush. I think we could do like some runs of some other plushes.

Starting point is 01:48:39 One of the things that I've worried about doing anyone other than me is that I don't want it to seem like we're playing favorites and I don't want to turn it into like a political thing this is something we talked about back when we had thought about doing you know like you twos like those little plastic figurines we had thought about contracting a factory to make some of those for us and one of the things that we just kind of couldn't get past was who do we do them for? How do we avoid this turning into like a weird popularity contest where someone gets their feelings hurt because theirs doesn't sell very well or whatever. And we just like, forget it. Just don't do it.

Starting point is 01:49:18 Adam asks, how much performance am I leaving on the table at 1440p with a 4790k and a 3070? I mean, honestly, you'd get some benefit from upgrading your CPU at this point, especially with the new launch, but you're also not, at 1440p, you're going to be GPU bound in some games. I don't think it's the end of the world. I think the honest answer every time someone asks me, okay, I think the honest answer every time someone asks me, okay, should I upgrade is, well, what's wrong with it, right? Is there some kind of bottleneck that is hurting your gaming experience

Starting point is 01:49:53 in a meaningful way? And if not, then, I mean, there's no reason to just generate more electronic junk, right? A 4790K is still a good chip it's a good chip it's fast uh i don't share your screen i i emailed you the despad configurator stuff um download the files and then play them also maybe i should watch it first to make sure there isn't anything in there but i don't think there is um what was i going to say this this is

Starting point is 01:50:25 a very early like there's a reason why it's it's not on the store yet um people so it's not perfect yet but this is kind of the the concept that we're that we're going for jayden says can you please make shipping cheaper come on i want to want to. I would love to. It's just really hard because we don't control shipping prices. Haley says, hi, Colton, among other things. Hey, thanks, Haley. Lee bought the banana pack. All right.

Starting point is 01:51:01 The banana bunch, I guess we could call it. Hey, you're welcome, Anonymous, for the high quality merch james says it's my birthday this is a present to myself got the 1.2 meter by 30 centimeter northern lights desk pad heck yeah yeah it should be fine aiden minus as a user of unraid does it bug you that years on you can't customize the web GUI horizontally. Oh man, I love the Unraid guys. They're great, great people. But there are many things that bother me that are not fixed after years. I love them.

Starting point is 01:51:34 They're wonderful. Jacob says, trans rights. Bought a purple banana. Heck yeah. Patrick says, interesting time with Alder Lake. I help people with computer problems for free and I recently built my thousandth PC. Wow, you of that that's pretty cool that'd be a cool like pretty cool what a cool wall collage that would be a picture like a picture of every computer you've

Starting point is 01:51:53 built or something that'd be pretty sweet oh that'd be so cool i wish i had pictures of like the first computer i built and stuff i there's no nothing nothing at all looking forward to the s2 tool steel bit screwdriver later yeah you better believe it uh martin i've been watching the wan show since it was recorded on the couch uh that is a lot of shirts it's like one of every shirt and a water bottle question back on the couch you explained you were saying same bad time same bad channel ah okay no it was never same bat time same bat channel like the old adam west batman it was always bad time same bat channel ah okay no it was never same bat time same bat channel like the old adam west batman it was always bad time bad channel oh wait no i might have actually said that i think i was yeah i think it was just a reference you used to say bat and now you say that now it's bad

Starting point is 01:52:36 because the show is always late that's right there's your answer yeah um and i just i like i like the reference it's funny show actually confused me at one point yeah because i started realizing you were saying bad and i was like wait what because i remember this same explanation that martin is bringing up anatoli's comment is i would like my purchase to appear as an alert on the ltd stream anatoli mission accomplished got him nice okay um new constellation shirt when asks zach i know i know so we have our first shipment of our own t-shirts not american apparel ones we're taking it slow on this because the quality of our shirts is one of the things that people rave about and it's so funny because they're just american Apparel tees.

Starting point is 01:53:27 It's just that every other merch shirt uses garbage t-shirts. That's the only reason ours stand out. These are just off the shelf American Apparel tees. But the problem we have with them is that we can't get enough supply. Otherwise, we would have just continued to buy American Apparel. So we've been trying to find our own shirts

Starting point is 01:53:42 that match or exceed the quality of American Apparel. We think we have it. We did a volume order. But we're taking a look at them. We're doing test prints. It's going to take some time. When we're done, we're going to have Black Aqua-ish as a color again. We are going to bring back Constellation.

Starting point is 01:53:59 I don't know if it'll be a V2 or if we'll do the original design, at least as one run for people who missed it. But it's going to happen. It's going to happen. Thanks, Andrew. Oh my gosh. They're coming in faster than I can read them. Do you want to bring up the configurator and I'll keep firing through these?

Starting point is 01:54:17 What number are you on? I'm on 62. Okay. We're going to have to start doing this as like an after party i think maybe so we just cut the show and then we like come right back and we're like hey let's let's go through like q a and stuff on youtube maybe i don't know yeah something like that with that said retention on this is actually like excellent we are answering questions that people might be

Starting point is 01:54:41 interested in like yeah it's kind of a q a at the end of the show like i don't know it might be fine this is my first lct purchase since the keep on digging shirt a few years back i think it's a little more than a few years back that was like seven years ago uh i've been a big fan since 2014 and i have watched most wan shows since then epic nice um uh no it was ubisoft. They keep on digging shit. Yeah, yeah. Okay, I've got Luke's thingamaboo over here. Is that the email? What?

Starting point is 01:55:10 Oh, you downloaded it. Thank you. Okay. So again, extremely early version. This is mostly proof of concept. It is not going to look like this. It will have a better user experience UI kind of setup thing. We're just showing that you can change the size of the desk um to to like an an input amount so you can input the size of your desk and it will

Starting point is 01:55:31 change the the canvas to to kind of work for the size of desk that you have how'd you put the keyboard and mouse in how'd you put the keyboard and mouse in i don't see a keyboard and mouse there's a keyboard oh on the mouse pad oh is that just part of the mouse pad image i think so got it yeah okay that makes sense so we're i i think i've requested it but it's like on the office server so i keep forgetting to get it we're supposed to get like the source images for the mouse pad so that it looks better and stuff and it will look nicer blah blah blah but the idea is you can put in the dimensions of your desk and then trial a bunch of official sizes of the mouse pad to figure out exactly what mouse pad you want the most so it'll

Starting point is 01:56:10 look nice it'll work better etc but that functionality is coming to the store which i think is going to be great oh it's a screenshot from the ltd store so we're going to get better versions again it's a very early version of that that stuff got it um okay benjamin i really went the wan hoodie hey thanks benjamin note note notey mcnote note luke is awesome says justin thanks you know what we might have to do a better way to tackle this might be to just have a live producer filtering them and then just have the messages be part of the merch message and just have it pop up as long as we've got a character limit and we design a thing that like has bounds that kind of makes sense that does get

Starting point is 01:56:59 more complicated uh they could also pull like specific kind of questions that we could answer at the end of the show out and stuff like that. Yeah. Yeah. The problem with adding a producer to this show though is that it kind of happens on such a random schedule. Like nobody's in office right now.

Starting point is 01:57:16 Luke and I are the only ones in the building. I don't think anyone wants to stay. Anonymous says, the top handle on that backpack prototype looks thin. Padding maybe? Oh, no padding maybe oh no no no no okay thin maybe maybe but it is strong um it is double layered and then just has like stitching down the middle for absolute lols because we were like add more stitching It is not going anywhere. Jacob says, Jay loves Kay very much. Hey, we're doing the like romantic shout outs

Starting point is 01:57:49 on the WAN show now. Congratulations on popping your LTT store cherry, Micah. Josiah says, have you done a video to build a mid-range server? We actually have one coming soon that's going to be about repurposing your old desktop to make it into a server. I think Pulseway sponsored it.

Starting point is 01:58:05 So that's cool. Anatin says, shout out to my girlfriend, Sarmishta, who loved the look of the gold water bottle. Heck yeah. And includes, oh, a black and gold water bottle for the GF. Love it. Ashley says, take my money. I will buy a fully loaded backpack my expectation would be 200 to

Starting point is 01:58:26 300 usd for such a package i can give you guys some pricing guidance now that we've done this latest sample uh there's going to be a few more changes but you can expect that the backpack will probably be in the neighborhood of 250 us dollars it is not going to be just for the backpack so fully loaded bundle if that became a thing it could be around 300 i think we could offer some bundle savings if it was like a shirt oh not the screwdriver water no cost on the screwdrivers rough okay yeah maybe like water bottle and a shirt would be the package that might be a little bit more reasonable so let's see what we can do but the so far the people that i've shown it to, and that includes Brandon, David and Colin, some of them in particular, actually, I think all of them have really nice backpacks that they have spent a lot of money on. And they're like.

Starting point is 01:59:18 Pretty good. Looks good. Yeah. Nice backpacks are really expensive, like genuinely really good backpacks are very expensive. Brandon says. Banana! All right. Thanks, Brandon. It's a different Brandon, not our Brandon, but yeah. Martin, can we get a video about the difference between MSRP and retail prices? So many people are fighting and getting ripped off because nobody knows. Yeah. I mean, I don't think that's a whole video, but MSRP is a suggested retail price and retail prices are just like the price.

Starting point is 01:59:48 So that's that's the big difference. Got the wife to watch the show with me. She saw the bananas and had to have them, says Robert. You know, what's funny is I can't remember if it was Nick or Sarah or both of them. I pushed back on the bananas i was like i don't know i this is kind of like a weird a weird product to me like i know banana for scale is like a total meme and everything but it's not one that we've leaned crazy heavy into or anything like that no and they were like no man trust me i was like okay all right. Honestly, when I saw these, we had to do some,

Starting point is 02:00:27 Fullplane had to do a little bit of work to make the bundle thing work. Right. When I saw these, and like, I know nothing. I'm not the merch guy, right? Like, don't listen to me. But I saw this and I was like, wow, I hope we didn't buy a ton of them. But now I kind of hope they did buy a ton of them. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:00:43 Apparently they're flying off. Because if we didn't buy a ton of them we're in big trouble yeah the amount of people that are buying all of them yeah it's really interesting to me too i i think there's like just as many or or maybe even more people that are buying the entire set of bananas than just one of them all right um no problem ari uh rune i guess i accidentally um i accidentally answered your question already haha uh renee greetings from chile following your channel for years oh oh jono jono just messaged me whoa whoa whoa it was me all right all right jono's apparently wanted the banana since like 2018.

Starting point is 02:01:25 So there you go. There you go. We got to give credit where credit is due. Michael says, old guy with poor eyesight. What's the best monitor type slash technology for poor eyesight? Wow. That is a good question. I mean, I want to say garbage in, garbage out.

Starting point is 02:01:42 You're going to want to make sure that you get a monitor with like a really fine, uh, uh, with, uh, with high pixel density. But other than that, I could see, I could see avoiding something that inherently has more glow. You might not like an IPS as much. The thing is that part of the glow effect though is actually um the way that your eyes take in light so even oleds which might have a pixel off and then a pixel on right next to each other they can still have a perceived glow to them so also i again know nothing on this topic i would maybe recommend not an oled uh because i i think the difference between it might actually make things hard to see. Yeah, but then you're also not going to want no contrast. You're not going to want a TN either

Starting point is 02:02:30 because that's going to be really hard to deal with. Yeah, it's just garbage. I mean, honestly, I'm not educated enough to make a solid recommendation there. But if I had to guess, I would say a happy medium might be something VA-based. If I had to guess. I'm guessing a happy medium might be something VA based. If I had to guess, I'm guessing, guessing, guessing Linus. Jacob says there's a category literally called hard in the store.

Starting point is 02:02:53 LTT condoms confirmed. I do not want that liability. There's no way. There's no way. Yeah. Ah, anonymous. Wow. Got to kick me while I'm down.

Starting point is 02:03:04 I saw on the WANhow a while back that you thought the gold xbox controller videos would go viral man you should have just made another rc firetruck review would have been 10 mil views easy you should try to you should try to find like the coolest rc firetruck video and make like a number two um i have some ideas for like a follow-up to that nothing solid nothing solid though nice new shirts thanks for occupying 80 of my wardrobe i should film it just to complete the just for the memes yeah i love it um bridget says, my lid broke for my 21 ounce. Oh, got a new lid. I see that. Man, we've had some of those out there so long that it is-

Starting point is 02:03:52 The spine connector on the lid is just really old. We're starting to see people- With that amount of movement on it, after years of potentially daily use. Yeah, I can see it. But Bridget's picked up one of the new spout lids, got the Do Not Drop t-shirt, got a yellow banana. Also, when are women's sizes and cuts coming to LTE Store?

Starting point is 02:04:11 Okay, we are working on it. So step one is getting t-shirts and long sleeves of our own design with our own materials that we're happy with. Once we do that, step two is working on our female cuts, our lanky boy and chunky boy cuts, probably figuring out alternative female cuts. Like we've got a whole roadmap. We really want to make sure that not only for LTT merch, but

Starting point is 02:04:40 in the long term, Creator Warehouse wants to open up to being a merch provider for other creators as well so we want to figure out how to have like crazy inclusive sizing that's just one of our sort of long-term goals and um we're gonna at some point it's not hasn't happened yet but it will we're gonna reach out to our community to kind of um to join the guinea pig squad and we'll take community feedback on all these like different sizes because that's one of the things that's really challenging for men's clothes just like you've got enough dudes you know like tech bros in this building that it's pretty easy to find like a lanky boy or a heavy boy to try something on and give feedback to the fit technicians. But for female cuts, we don't have the kind of variety of body shapes that we would

Starting point is 02:05:34 need. So we're going to have to figure that out. It's going to be challenging, but we will do it. It's just a matter of time. And if you guys watch the framework laptop investment video, you'll know that one of the big challenges with physical goods is that you have to keep, whenever you do new product development, you are pouring in money that is way more than you can hope to extract from the product that you're going to sell for months.

Starting point is 02:05:58 And if your sales volumes increase, the amount of money that you have to put in could actually be net bigger than the profit that you're making selling through all your product so uh yvonne and i were actually looking at this the other day net cash flow ltt store is way more than a million dollars in the hole this year we sell every product profitably but you're like setting up more stuff and scaling up. We are constantly developing new products that we have to pay sampling fees for.

Starting point is 02:06:32 We have to pay deposits. We have to order them. Sometimes they can take literally months to arrive. And then when it's time to reorder, like WANhoodie. Okay, WANhoodie is such a great example. So let's use nice round numbers and let's, let's say, uh, let's say our profit was 50%. Let's say it was, um, it's really not that simple, but, um, WAN hoodie, if we ordered

Starting point is 02:06:57 4,000 units and we sold through them in 10 days, uh, I guess we'll probably be up to about 11 or 12 days by the time the last unit goes off the shelf in the last size. That tells us that between production time being like four to six weeks and shipping time being another six to eight weeks, that we need to now reorder 15 times as many or 12 times as many. So let's say, let's say we were making 50% margin, which again,

Starting point is 02:07:30 I'm only using that for nice round numbers. We are now dumping in, um, 11 times more profit than we made. Yeah. Just in order to restock this bloody product. So it's like, I'm not,

Starting point is 02:07:43 I'm not asking for any sympathy. It's great. You guys are amazing and supportive. And LTT Store has been amazing. And the team is amazing. And everything is great. It's like, it's been a total game changer for us, man. We've got a hiring video coming out soon.

Starting point is 02:07:58 We're going to be showing off a new space. We're going to bring in, I want to really lean into engineers. Oh, the accounting department asked me to shout out the accounting position again. Guys, if you have an accounting background, um, please go check out, um, Linus media group.com. We've got a position posted there. Anyway, the point is we've, I want to really lean into, uh, more engineers, bringing in more engineers for our staff um with that upcoming hiring video and i think that it is fair to say that ltt store and

Starting point is 02:08:34 the support that you guys are showing is going to be a huge part of what's going to allow us to do that obviously it hasn't generated positive cash flow for us yet but it will and it gives me the confidence to invest and hire these additional people and like get this get this thing going have you filmed that video yet i haven't yet okay i want to make sure that the postings are right um preston says hey quick question i got water bottle v2 and i had to buy another lid after a week because the handle hinge part of the cap shears so we haven't had a lot of complaints about that but you shouldn't have bought another one you should have contacted customer support they will send you another one um they they really do a great

Starting point is 02:09:09 job their priority is making sure that everyone's happy so what i want you to do preston is reach out to support and get that order refunded for the replacement lid um because customer support's got to know if we have like a quality control issue on a particular batch of water bottles as well so that we can track that kind of thing. That's how we tracked down the recall that we ultimately did on, oh, I'm not actually wearing it, on V1 of the two Curbini. Anonymous says, award for the world's longest shipping from the lower mainland to the faraway world of the lower mainland. Okay. One of these days i will explain how our shipping system works and it is optimized for global logistics because most of our products

Starting point is 02:09:52 ship globally not domestically and it does slow down our domestic shipping i'm sorry we do need to keep going through these or or like end it Hamish says buying this book for my baby boy, Caden. Heck yeah. Um, okay. Yeah. I'm sorry guys.

Starting point is 02:10:09 We're going to have to, we're going to have to call it here pretty quick unless I see some ones that are like, uh, really, um, like a good question that people really need the answer to. Cause Luke and I need to go home at some point here. Do do do do.

Starting point is 02:10:29 Nathan asks, will there be an option to buy replacement bits for the screwdriver? Yes, not only will we have replacements of the bit load that we provide by default, but we are going to have clips that you can buy of like torques in every size, hex in every size, so you can actually build out your own bit load and And we are targeting very reasonable pricing with the additional Linus Tech tips. Very nice. We probably won't call them that. But we are targeting a really fair price point.

Starting point is 02:10:58 It's not super aggressive, but it's very fair. So it should be no problem for people to kind of go, okay, yeah, I'll pick up the screwdriver and then just kind of grab anything that I would want. And then I can build my own perfect optimal bit load. Hey, shout out to Floatplane from Johan. Such a great message. Why do you use Plex and not Jellyfin or MB?

Starting point is 02:11:20 I've actually truthfully never tried Jellyfin or MB and I have a lifetime Plex membership. So there's no real reason for me to try something else i've been pretty happy with it carl says i agree with david bigger orders are cheaper for shipping to europe and he got every single banana a water bottle uh t-shirt t-shirt t-shirt t-shirt lanyard desk pad nice uh tanner says it hurt when you talked down on the duo 2 a few wan shows ago saying your viewers are smart enough not to get it i've been pretty hyped about it for a while personally anyway my fold 3 just came in a couple days ago it's awesome and i'm loving it

Starting point is 02:11:53 i i do think you made the right choice i think the the folding screen is going to be a better experience than the the hinge like dual display uh portable device okay oh interesting nicholas has a psa about the best buy membership so it's being advertised at 13 a month with the same geek squad services plus setting up and removing bloatware having shopped there before i was curious if their protections turns out for four years protection through the full price you pay 450 cad but if you didn't know any better and sign up for the geek squad membership you're paying over 600 for the same four years and basically the same service so you should get the uh the like best buy membership instead thanks nicholas and thanks for the order okay zeb says after experiencing

Starting point is 02:12:42 linux for a while how confident are you feeling about linux shipping with the steam deck um if their goal is to have 100 of the games in the steam library working how long are they they're planning on shipping it like next month soon unless there's a big update, they're failing. So. Okay, I'm going to actually share a rosier perspective. I'm feeling pretty good about it because my biggest problem has never been that it's impossible. My biggest problem has been that there's workarounds

Starting point is 02:13:19 and launch flags and dependencies, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So as long as Valve's doing all the work, okay. My thing is if they do the work though, that's the, and it seems like they're kind of, you know, probably going to. They've said they will. It's not there yet, at least publicly.

Starting point is 02:13:40 Maybe there's like some big Proton update coming. I don't know. But there's still issues and a lot of those issues come in with drm stuff right like almost every game that i found that isn't going to work or doesn't work there's a drm issue but like i don't know if they can solve that maybe they can maybe they can't uh but there was a claim that they'd get the whole library working and that looks a little sketchy right now i i'm still really stoked for my purchase i think it's gonna be great uh jake you're right the command line is definitely worth learning at least a little bit

Starting point is 02:14:09 about 100 okay depends who you are um i think knowing a cup knowing not being scared of it is a good thing yeah but like if you if you use your computer to play league of legends and counter-strike two days a week for fun. Okay, then yeah. Do you need to learn the command line? No. Carl says, I agree with David. Bigger orders are cheaper on shipping to Europe.

Starting point is 02:14:34 All the bananas, water bottle, bunch of shirts, lanyard, desk pad. All right, fair enough. Anonymous says, I cannot believe you didn't call them wanyards we're working on that oh it's a black and orange cool yeah so far they've been only single color yeah um anonymous says the ability to wear your merch and have the brand be known by those who know while not looking like a giant advertising billboard is always appreciated that's actually been a big shift for us a lot of

Starting point is 02:15:03 our earlier merch was like linus tech tips all over it and over time um starting with the stealth hoodie that was actually where the name came from stealth branding we've wanted to make it more just like clothes that are affordable and quality and that anyone would want to actually wear and we knew that because we've been going to cons forever and the best merch that you could ever get from anybody was the stuff that was, yeah, maybe some people would recognize it, but it wasn't like totally in your face.

Starting point is 02:15:28 A hundred percent. Okay. Sorry guys. I can't do any more of these. Um, you guys are absolutely amazing. We got 183 merch messages on the show today. Wow.

Starting point is 02:15:44 Um, thanks Anthony. Thanks, Anthony. Thanks, Josh. Okay, had a couple more rolling just now. I think that's it for the show today. Oh, actually, there were a couple of super chats that I really cannot ignore. Someone sent a $100 super chat,

Starting point is 02:15:57 so I should probably have a look at that. Those people should probably start doing merch messages because we have said we're not going to do super chats anymore. Yes, please please i didn't say it today um daryl says ltd backpack in the shape of a penguin one appendage could be an ltd water bottle one could be an i fix it kit one compressed air and the other for a usb hard drive the body could fit your laptop you know what i you know what i that uh image you know what image that conjures for me those like animal shaped backpacks that like eight-year-old girls wear i kind of love it but

Starting point is 02:16:33 i don't think we're going to develop that um m hoffman says what do you really think about the odyssey neo g9 we actually meant to do a follow-up non-sponsored review of it, and I haven't gotten to that. I really should do that. It said, I tried to find an unsponsored review, but couldn't. I still haven't tried a production unit. Right, I remember. The delay was that the production ones weren't out yet when I put it on Trello. Daryl Lyle says, the biggest issue with the Linux challenge is the fact that you think

Starting point is 02:17:03 no one should use the command line. Well, in Windows, I have to install various programs to understand why it crashes. I don't see that as being any different, except with Linux, the commands are there. Well, I'm not saying no one should use the command line. I'm saying no one should have to, to do what they want to do on their computer. That's the difference. And by no one, I mean average gamer, right? Because this is supposed to be as gamers that were that were

Starting point is 02:17:26 going through this challenge not as you know by day developers who happen to play some games we're talking people who identify as a gamer right um Daryl says regardless of us Linux users complaining thank you for doing the challenge this will help Linux even if your feedback's all negative hey thanks we're trying we really are like we Like we came into it wanting to support mainstream adoption of Linux. That's where our heart is at. And we've run into some challenges that have led us to believe that, no, it is in fact not ready for primetime for gamers just yet. But that's part of the process, right?

Starting point is 02:17:59 You have to find all the things that are bad in order to consolidate down to just things that are good in order to consolidate down to just things that are good. And is that where we call it? It can be. Alright, thanks for tuning in, guys. We'll see you again next week. Same bad time, same bad channel. Bye!

Starting point is 02:18:26 Sounds good, Conrad. Sounds good, Conrad. Sounds good, Conrad. That makes sense. Keep it as is. I agree. Brought to you by Scanny, MSI, and Ritual Aid. Yay!

The WAN Show - We Messed Up - WAN Show November 5, 2021

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