The WAN Show - We Talked To A VP At Microsoft - WAN Show December 23, 2022

Episode Date: December 26, 2022

Save 90% off your first for months of Freshbooks at https://www.freshbooks.com/wan Go to https://www.masterclass.com/WAN to purchase an annual MasterClass membership and get one free Timestamps (Courtesy of NoKi1119) Note: Timing may be off due to sponsor change 0:00 Chapters 2:11 Intro ft. unlisting YouTube stream 2:52 Topic #1 - LMG reached Microsoft for Modern Standby 3:30 Explaining S0 & S3 states of sleeping 6:06 Discussing the removal of S3 from MS laptops 7:35 Linus on "Why not shut it down lol" & comments from LTT's video 9:12 Feedback on LTT's video of Linus's tour to Micron 9:48 Power loss due to weather, preparing UPS 12:26 Topic #2 - John Carmack leaves Oculus 12:50 Meta's policies, John on efficiency & developers 16:14 Keen Technologies' AGI, what VR should have been 18:27 Linus on mutual agreements with co-workers 20:05 Explaining why WAN was interrupted 20:32 Sponsors 23:20 Topic #3 - Anker's eufy admits they lied 23:51 Anker's blog post, how much does this tarnish the brand? 25:35 How to choose discussion points, Riley's sad e-mail 27:35 What would you do if you became the CEO a week before? 31:42 Thoughts on Anker's response 33:37 Topic #4 - NIVDIA axes GameStream, recommends Steam Link 36:36 Why petitions won't work 39:32 Discussing Apple's continuity, wireless GTX 460 video 40:50 NVIDIA's history of abandoning products 41:57 Why "smart home" technology is a struggle 42:14 SHIELD's advertising & commitments, Google's Nest Audio 44:52 Power is back 45:50 Topic #5 - Lawyer mother denied entry after AI face recognition 46:27 MSG entertainment's statement, Linus & Luke on AI recognition 49:44 This might go to supreme court, discussing outdated legislations 51:29 Jake joins the WAN show, Luke's roof caved in 52:22 Linus & Luke reacting video, commends Luke's professionalism 53:33 Linus's sense of humor, mentioning LTT's WD video 55:35 Topic #6 - AI uses podcast data to generate topics 57:23 Luke says which was by ChatGPT, Linus shows WAN notes 59:22 ChatGPT uses data from huberman lab to generate a new article 1:02:21 Stance on data set training, discussing WAN show 1:06:10 "Free content," ethicality behind using ChatGPT 1:10:32 Clearing confusion behind Linus's stance on ad-blocking 1:11:40 Linus thanks customer care employees & FloatPlane 1:14:17 Merch Messages #1 1:22:54 Topic #7 - Apple allows sideloading & third-party app stores 1:23:55 Apple's objections, stock surging 1:26:06 Discussing developer's aspect & certificates 1:31:30 Topic #8 - Epic Games pays millions to COPPA for "dark patterns" 1:33:54 Luke on canceling his late grandfather's Prime subscriptions 1:36:20 "WAN show must go on," Linus & Luke's streak 1:37:23 Topic #9 - LastPass August breach was way worse 1:39:48 Luke suggests leaving LastPass & updating passwords 1:40:38 CelebrityFeetPics site, Linus is on Men Wikifeet 1:42:08 Topic #10 - Sharing Netflix passwords may be illegal 1:43:00 Linus not noticing ads, like-dislike ratio 1:45:36 CPS might seek criminal charges against close people sharing passwords 1:48:31 Merch Messages #2 1:49:54 Linus enjoying making videos, does he need a smaller team? 1:54:54 How is the dual audio LTT project going? 1:57:03 Would there be more GPUs with different RAMs? 2:00:12 Any favorite go-to movies for testing home theaters? 2:27:00 Outro Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Whether you're practicing your morning breath work, waiting for your favorite artist to come on stage, or running errands at the perfect pace, Liquid IV Powder helps you turn ordinary water into extraordinary hydration so you can live a more extraordinary life. Live more with Liquid IV Hydration Multiplier. Available in refreshing lemon-lime, passion fruit, and strawberry flavors. Buy a stick in store at Costco, walmart amazon and other canadian retailers ho ho ho merry christmas guess what i got you nothing the when show welcome everybody we've got a lot of great stuff to talk about today john carmax decade in v VR is over as he exits from Reality Labs, formerly Oculus. This actually broke last week, right before the show, so we didn't really get a chance to talk about it, but we're going to talk about it this week instead. Oh, this is a big one. This is actually the title topic of the show today. We got an update from Microsoft on our Windows Modern standby video, where we basically went, you guys are ruining Windows laptops with this standby issue where

the battery just drains for no reason. What the heck is going on over there? And we actually, apparently raised some hell over at Microsoft. And Alex from our team managed to get on the phone with the VP of Windows Platform and Services to go over some of our questions. So we're going to be talking about that call, what is going on over there, what it is that they're going to do about it. Got a whole big update for you guys.

What else we got? I thought the LastPass breach was in the dock, but I can't find it. But we're probably going to talk about that anyways, because it's's interesting and also uh we have three rapid fire topics today one is eufy admits they lied one is nvidia ends game stream recommends steam link and another one is facial recognition used to bar a lawyer from entering a venue and the reason why I'm listing all of these is because some amount of them are written by ChatGPT. Wait, all the rapid fires are written by ChatGPT? Some amount.

And you are going to have to guess which ones are written by ChatGPT. Oh, no. And which ones are written by our team. I will say they have been slightly massaged okay fit the format of how we normally do but there are lots of like whole sentences and stuff that are taken directly from chat gpt why okay so you're gonna have to figure out which ones or how many whatever we'll figure it out when we get there but okay it's unlisted it's not on youtube who changed it to unlisted hold on no no it's fine i'll just set it to public and then they will see the rest of it later let's see um hold on a second this should go ah yes there we go properly unlisted it great let's jump right

into our headline topic for the day which is of course that alex managed to get the vp of windows platform and services on the phone to go over some of our concerns about windows modern standby first of all i want to give mic Microsoft credit because on the one hand, yeah, they've clearly sat on ass on this issue for, well, years at this point. But on the other hand, now that we have raised it as a problem, now that the community has spoken and made their voices heard that this is a problem that affects them day to day they appear to be taking it really seriously so let's start with kind of alex's interview um and go from there first alex asked why is s3 sleep being removed from the biosol laptops oh no we should give the people a bit of a catch you up

if you didn't catch the original video did you watch the video no okay so windows modern standby or s zero sleep is a connected type of sleep that is meant to replace the traditional s3 sleep it's supposed to be connected more power efficient and generally a boon uh it's been brought about in no small part by intel's push for a more smartphone like experience on windows laptops uh the problem is that a lot of the time when the machine is sleeping i mean i'm sure you've encountered this have you ever come to your laptop found it to be piping hot with a dead battery after you folded it and put it in your bag yes i also have like i'll try to put my desktop to sleep all right separate issue okay yeah i don't want to talk about that for now uh oh oh i i left it in the camera den um

so we basically came out and said we think we figured this out. We think it's to do with some kind of, it seems like high performance machines are disproportionately affected. So it's something that the machine can be churning away on while it's supposed to be sleeping. We figured out that by disabling the network connected aspect of this type of sleep on a Mac, we were able to get rid of that behavior, which we have also sleep on a Mac, we were able to get rid of that behavior, which we have also seen on a Mac, not even an Intel Mac, right? Interesting. So it's just a weird quirk of this type of sleep state.

And we basically made a video calling out Microsoft saying, hey, this has been a problem for literally years. This cannot be because you already suffer from worse battery life compared to your main competitor apple who is gaining market share in the mobile computer space you've got to deal with this because it is is killing the experience of using a windows laptop yeah like i talked to someone like jake and i'm sitting here i'm sorry you charge your laptop like once a week that's impossible for me because half the time i talked to someone like jake and i'm sitting here i'm sorry you charge your laptop like once a week that's impossible for me because half the time i go to grab my laptop it feels it's

probably not half but it it feels like every time i go to grab my bloody laptop i might as well flip a coin for whether i'm gonna have any battery left if you go somewhere without a cable you might as well not even brought the laptop exactly yeah exactly so we were trying to light a fire at Microsoft and it seems like it worked. So the first thing Alex asked was why is S3 sleep being removed from the BIOS of laptops? Because that's the problem is you couldn't even just say, look, I don't want S0, I want S3 when there's this industry move towards eliminating S3. so here's the answer microsoft is moving away from s3 sleep because how each device goes to be because how each device goes to sleep is controlled by that device's firmware that means for a device to sleep properly the firmware needs to be updated and maintained by the company that made said device and as you can probably guess that doesn't happen all the time. Big problem with Windows being put on so many different things. By using S0 sleep instead, Microsoft has more control over sleep

and has a much higher success rate of everything going to sleep properly and waking up properly compared to S3 sleep. And I have to admit, I was wondering too, well, what was the problem with S3 sleep? But then again, I also know know back to your desktop comment that there are plenty of problems with s3 sleep yeah like say for example disabling wake on mouse or wake on keyboard in the bios and yet having it magically wake up if you so much as bump your mouse anyway or just wake up randomly yeah right

i had this thing for a while where i had to put it to sleep three times every time it would just wake back up again like five minutes later and then i could finally get it to go down and i had a lot of people comment on this video why don't you just shut down your computer why don't you just shut down your computer if it's an advertised feature of the product no you don't get to complain about me complaining about it that is a problem that is objectively a problem and i don't want to hear it so so what you turn off your computer i don't give a but if the computer is supposed to go to sleep i am well within my right to expect that it will go to sleep okay it's like a child right

the child is supposed to go to sleep so if it doesn't go to sleep well you're well within your right to yell at it and shake it obviously kidding obviously kidding i'm trying to legal advice i'm trying to make it so people don't take me too seriously when i'm going all rancid because some people can't tell the difference okay all right i also think sometimes it's like the backing into parking spaces thing like you might have a lot of time when you are done using said device but you might know that the next time that you have to start using it you're going to need to use it quickly, but you don't want to just let it sit there running the whole time. And I get that your needs might not be the same as mine,

but that doesn't make them the only valid needs. That too. And I'm not saying that your way shouldn't be supported. That's the thing. I'm not saying, well, everyone should sleep. Yeah, you shouldn't shut down. I'm saying you should be able to do both we should have choice like say for example there's a lot of really great feedback recently about the micron um facilities tour okay did you watch it by any chance no but it's in my it's in my watch later yeah it's really good yeah tons of comments basically this is the best video you guys have ever done this is far and away the best factory tour i've ever seen it's a really good video micron was amazing they really opened up allowed us to see not just see but use the facilities i

made ram i said that i saw that thumbnail and immediately added it to my watch later. I made RAM. It was so cool. Well, here's the thing. I can't... Did we just lose power? Yep. How much UPS do we have over here? I'll check. We need to get power from the main server room UPS. Let's freaking go.

Three minutes. We have three minutes? Okay, how much... Okay, Luke, entertain the people. Okay. I don't think we're live, though. Sing a song. We're live. We are live. Okay. Wait. No don't think we're live though we're live we are live

okay wait no yeah we're back hello hi it is nighttime on the show now with Luke how's it going Dan who usually sits back there behind the TV which I guess you guys don't see but it's

also behind the camera pretty much said three minutes, got up and ran, and Linus also got up and ran. We have lost power. Both of them are off trying to solve the problem. I'm still not 100% certain if it's live. People are saying F. I think we're still sending some data. I'm not 100% sure what's going on, but assuming that this is going to someone right now, I'm just going to keep going. There's UPSs beeping all around the building. I'm not 100% certain what you guys can hear, but we have one very large UPS in the server room that I think they are going to try to work on. I suspect if I had

to make some assumptions that they are going to be shutting down certain things that are running off of that UPS system to try to keep networking and whatnot going as long as possible so that we can keep the stream going. I do believe that is the plan, although I can hear them talking right now. So theoretically that will be coming back soon. I don't know. Should I give you guys spoilers? No, I can't. Cause then you guys will post them in chat and Linus will know which ones are, which ones are real and which ones are fake. So I won't, I won't go through that. Um, I don't think I can really complete this, um, sleep topic. So I might jump into another one one i think the one that i'm going to do is the last pass topic uh because if this stream is going out to no one uh that is probably the

most okay one to do because there are no notes for it in the doc oh hello uh just all the lights coming on what's a good good time? Oh, right. So this isn't UPS running this. We just got power back? No, this is UPS. This is UPS. Okay. I didn't realize this light was on. Yeah, should we turn this off?

Yeah, just go for it. You're fine. There's extreme circumstances. Yeah, we can just have a night when show. It's fine. Directly through the notes. Legendary programmer john carmack known for programming the original doom uh and his love for vr has stepped down as consulting cto for reality labs formerly oculus i actually didn't know they were called reality labs i don't know why i didn't know that yeah i think that was a while back yeah

i probably just didn't care because it's a weird name change that doesn't matter uh meta is famous for making and directing and directly breaking promises not to f it up uh in quotes you will not need a facebook account to use or develop for the rift that's definitely not a thing anymore quotes we are not going to track you flash ads at you or do anything invasive uh that's not a thing anymore in quotes we are going to we are not going to track you flash ads at you or do anything invasive uh that's not a thing anymore in quotes we are going to we are not going to lock people out because they compete um i actually didn't know that was broken but apparently that was broken in 2016 uh yeah and then another one in quotes facebook is going to give us access to massive resources but let us operate independently hey the first the first part they did, if anything,

I think the entire investing world quadrupled, hex-tupled down. Yeah, the first half of that is extremely correct. And then in quotes, none of our gaming resources will be diverted. Ooh, yeah, that one,

not so much. Oof. Carmack says that he has mixed feelings about leaving, stating that the quest to, in particular, was so much. Oof. Carmack says that he has mixed feelings about leaving, stating that the Quest 2 in particular was almost exactly what he wanted to see despite complaints about the software. Yeah, the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back

is apparently the gaming resources being diverted one for him. I mean, we know John Carmack. He's a gamer guy. He's not a gamer. He's not into gaming, right? Right, John Carmack? Not that into gaming? Just did Doom. Yeah. It's not a game oh he's not a game he's not into gaming right right john karmack not not that into gaming just did doom yeah it's not a game yeah yeah exactly it's a wall it's real it's a wall

painting simulator it's how we protect the world from demons it's training you know the storyline behind doom is like surprisingly in depth yeah it's like there's a ton of lore yeah i had no idea yeah i mean either anyway um karmack has previously been critical of meta's direction is like surprisingly in depth. Yeah, it's like there's a ton of lore that I had no idea. Yeah, me neither. Anyway. Carmack has previously been critical of Meta's direction, saying that they should focus on products to tap into the Metaverse before building out initiatives. He worried that thousands of people's efforts

spanning years would be spent on things that didn't contribute to the way people use devices today. Seems to be a little bit true. His biggest problem, however, is the efficiency and speed of development. He says that as someone who works hard at optimization, seeing gross inefficiency hurts your soul, likening to seeing 5% GPU utilization. That is not surprising from him.

He has always been hyper into that. This is one of the reasons why people still run some of his old games on like as many devices as they can possibly imagine, because they're really, really well built for optimization for regard, like basically regardless of what platform you're on. Reality Labs, he says, operates at half the effectiveness that he'd like. Yikes. That's a big oop. I mean, his standards are pretty high. Yes. But there's probably still room for improvement. Also, yes. His voice at the top of the company, to his dismay,

has not been able to persuade the organization to improve. He says that he has never been able to stop stupid things because they cause damage or set a direction and have the team stick to it. He blames himself for this, as instead of taking a leadership role and locking horns with Facebook on day one, he focused on what he's best at, programming.

That's also not surprising. He assumed he would hate it, be bad at it, and probably lose anyways, so that's why he stuck to programming. He still deeply believes in VR and that meta is best able to show its value. His parting advice advice in quotes is make better decisions and fill your products with give a damn now carmax focus yeah me too

actually carmax focus will be on his artificial intelligence startup keen technologies which has received significant investment money in recent months. Artificial intelligence, or AGI, has the goal of making an artificial intelligence system that can theoretically do any task a human can. A truer definition of AI. What we call AI right now is far more limited in scope and is often just a matter of observe and fail at one thing until it gets better. Some, like meta chief scientist Yan Li Kun, hopefully I said that right. I don't know. Sorry if I did say that wrong. Doubt that AGI can or will ever become a reality. Others fear what AGI could represent if created irresponsibly. The AI overlords joke hits a little differently for AGI. Now, what I kind of want to raise here is I think AI or AGI or whatever is what a lot of people, definitely including myself, thought VR was going to be at this point in time.

Yep. I think it's a huge disruptor. I think it's going to change a ton of things. I think it already has, and the real usable levels of it have barely even existed yet. Like when GPT-4 comes out, if places like Google who have large language models similar to GP3, GPT-4, whatever, if they start using those more publicly, if other companies that have similar systems start using those more publicly, I think the that have similar systems start using those more publicly, I think the impact of these things are going to be on the scale

that when Oculus was first founded, people thought the impact of VR was going to be at. So I think it is a much more significantly interesting thing to work on right now. And I think Carmack is quite interested in leading his own things considering that the vast amount of his frustrations very clearly when leaving meta um was leadership decisions sure and and efficiencies and goals and all that type of stuff so if he can

steer the ship more directly and he can do it on something that might be more punchy and more fun right now. This is one of those things where I've, I think I've talked to you about this, like not on the show, just talking. Um, I don't know how I would handle working for someone else. Yeah. As long as they made decisions that I agreed

were really great, it'd be fine. But the second one. But they probably won't. Yeah. And it's not going to be fine i i i think it's really hard to and the thing is that i like to think that i try pretty hard to reach consensus when we make a decision as a company um i have never experienced that anywhere else and i suspect that is not very common and i suspect that even as I'm talking about this

and you're sitting there nodding, I'm not always perfect at it. But- No, but there's a reason I'm still here too. I don't know. I just, I don't think I would, I don't think I would find, I wouldn't need to agree with everything,

but I don't think I would find a place where I would agree with enough. And I think that's basically what he's run into here. I've said this literally on the WAN show before. Like I don't necessarily agree with find a place where i would agree with enough and i think that's basically what he's run into here i've said this literally on the wancho before like i don't necessarily agree with everything we've ever done but i think that would be basically impossible um and it's fine and i think i i do agree with the vast majority of things that we've done um wow i want to give her a little more juice way less than I thought hey there we go all right good enough nice I do agree with the vast majority of things that we've

done and even when I don't agree with what we've done I can usually at least see the logic behind it I have worked places before where tons of things happen where no matter how hard I try I can't find the logic behind it uh the logic behind why the show is dark today, by the way, if you guys are joining us a little bit late here, we're going to try to splice together the segments of the show, but we were interrupted by a power outage. We are going to run on battery for as

long as we can here, guys, but the show might be a little bit on the shorter side, which means I want to jump through our sponsor spots right away to make sure that, hey, at least they're getting their money's worth here and they don't ask for a refund. The show is brought to you by... Thanks to FreshBooks for sponsoring today's show. Now I'm going to go ahead and guess that you're not an accountant, which is why you're going to love FreshBooks software. It's built for

freelancers and small business owners who don't have time to waste on invoicing, accounting, and payment processing. In fact, FreshBooks users can save up to 11 hours a week by streamlining and automating pesky admin tasks like time tracking, following up on invoices, and expense Thank you. and it's even easier to turn everything over to your accountant come tax season. 94% of FreshBooks users say it's super easy to get up and running, and with award-winning support, you are never alone. So try FreshBooks free for 30 days, no credit card required, by going to freshbooks.com slash WAN. So, what will you do with 11 more hours each week? Thanks to Masterclass for sponsoring this week's show.

With Masterclass, you can learn from the world's best minds anytime, anywhere, and at your own pace. You can learn the art of negotiation with Chris Koss, improve your cooking skills with Gordon Ramsay, Thanks for listening. tablet, TV, computer, or on the go with audio mode. Lessons are approximately 10 to 15 minutes in length, so you can easily fit them into your daily life. Thanks to Masterclass, I've been able to learn how to cook so many new dishes with Gordon Ramsay's class, and now my meals are always unique and exciting. With Masterclass, that thing you've always wanted to do is closer than you think.

I highly recommend you check it out. This holiday, give the perfect gift of an annual Masterclass membership and get one free. Go to masterclass.com slash WAN today. That's masterclass.com slash WAN. Terms apply. What do you want to talk about? I want to get through these rapid fire topics because I want to see if you can sniff out which one of them was written by ChatGPT. So do you want me to read them and you can read through the notes and think about it?

Let's just do it like we normally would. You know, I'll do one, you do one. Let's get through all three of them. Sure. And then I'll do my best. Okay. First up, we've got Yuffie admits they lied. This has been a developing story

over, man, like a month now, hasn't it? In a blog post addressed to Yuffie security customers and partners, Anchor, the parent company of Eufy, admitted to using the cloud to send mobile push notifications with small preview images, which are protected by end-to-end encryption and deleted shortly after being sent.

The company also admitted to a security flaw in the live view feature on its web portal, but denied that any user data had been exposed or that facial recognition data was sent to the cloud. Eufy has made changes to the feature to require users to log into the web portal in order to view live streams or share active links to them. The company stated that it is committed to reducing the use of the cloud in its security processes wherever possible and that it complies with all industry standards. Discussion question here is how much does an incident like this really tarnish a brand or its bottom line? I don't know.

It depends how mainstream it is. I think it varies a lot. Yeah. I think it depends how mainstream the reporting on the negativity surrounding it is as well. How much competition there is in the space. That too. Like you can talk day in and day out about what a toxic company NVIDIA might be or Apple might be and it's not going to stop people from buying their products. Absolutely, yeah. Whereas Eufy, I feel like what did not have as strong of a brand to begin with and so much of the strength of their brand at least based on the messages I'm seeing about it was

around that promise that they didn't upload anything to the cloud so yeah I could see it I could see it being extremely damaging and there's quite a few competitors and there's competitors that are bigger names so like this this could be a hugely negative kind. Kind of an underdog. Yeah. Our second discussion question is, if you became CEO of this company one week before the revelations,

I hope the AI wrote this discussion question because this is a great discussion question. I suspect it was James who wrote this discussion question, though. I think, but I don't remember. I think all the discussion questions might be people. I had a meeting with Riley and James this week about sort of um because we added Luke and I added a bunch of topics to the doc right before the show went live last week and Riley sent me the world's

saddest email it was pretty sad being like you know we work really hard on these topics I would be really nice to know if you just like would prefer other topics. And I'm like, oh, Riley, I'm sorry. It's not you. It's me. Let's have a meeting next week and kind of talk about why we changed them. And one of the things that wasn't just like me laying down an edict or whatever, but one of the things that came out of our discussion, you're a genius, Jake.

He's got a Jackery. A Jackery a jackery yeah speaking of spots there's five we're streaming one show let's go um heck yeah jake all right um wait what were we talking about now right yeah so one of the things we came to together was that part of choosing a good topic is looking at what the discussion topics will be because if the discussion topic is is this bad yeah yes then there's nothing to really talk about yeah yeah it's bad we need some back and forth okay well but why is it bad how is it bad who was bad where was it bad like we've got to be able to there's got to be some discussion in the discussion question yeah and so what i'm noticing is our discussion topics our discussion questions are so much better because i think we're choosing topics based on how rich the discussion can be. Yeah.

If you wanted to truly make things right, if you were the CEO of this company, one week before this happened, so you can't alter course. All you can do is react to it. What would you have done differently? So I actually vaguely referenced this on the last show that we talked about, Yuffie, which I don't think was our last show. I think it was two shows ago or something. And this might tank the company um but what i said was they effectively had to recall devices and i i still kind of defend it and yeah it might tank the company i don't know but like they advertised on local only it is not local only they are not going to be able to change

that i maybe you can i doubt it i don't think not going to be able to change that. Maybe you can. I doubt it. I don't think they're going to be able to change that. Certainly not immediately. So they need to like, so maybe another option is offer full refunds. Like send out an email explaining everything that's going on. Be very transparent. Admit the things you got to admit.

Offer a full refund. And if the user doesn't take it they don't take it but like so the the the ceo in me would be trying to avoid a full we refund everything yeah so yeah so i think i think you have to do the offer that's kind of the end yeah you just tank the whole yeah you might as well just say, see you later. Yeah. At that point. And I don't mean like as an F you to the customers that that would be the right thing to do. I mean, you just might not survive it.

Yeah, you just spent so much money on R&D. You spent so much money on tooling. You spent so much money on manufacturing. You spent so much money on shipping. Now you have to pay for more shipping. Yeah, to take it all back. And you didn't gain anything. Yeah, so what I would be trying to do is offer that

option because you kind of have to yeah but i would be trying to come up with a more compelling option yeah that doesn't hurt me quite so much yeah right so i might be looking at okay if i can convince you to keep this in its current state and i can send you the new working one when we get there yeah can we do that or i would be looking for i don't know if there's a subscription but maybe you give them six months for free if i if i could if i could keep this in its in its state for now but i could get you to what we promised in six months can you accept that i'd be trying to look for because ultimately right what the customer wanted was that product yeah so i what what i would be

trying to figure out is is there any way without taking back everything to get you what you paid for well there's there is some problems with that due to i know but you already broke the trust yeah so you have to throw in a bonus because you have to do more than just get there's some technical problems with that too for sure getting notifications local phones or uh remote phones all this type of stuff but like sure but i i understand the the core idea of what you're saying but i'd be trying to look for a way to kind of go okay it's gonna take us some time we're gonna have to do this to make it up to you uh some kind of partial okay it's going to take us some time we're going to have to do this to make it up to you uh some kind of partial refund or some kind which is often not actually possible

like uh you ran into this a little while ago where you were not able to issue someone a partial refund through paypal because it had been 180 days they requested far past a reasonable date yeah yeah and paypal literally wouldn't allow allow Luke to do it because I guess the assumption from their point of view is that it must be under duress. I don't know. Yeah. Right?

Yeah. I think their thing is they don't want to deal with, because I think if you, if I remember correctly, if you do a refund within the terms, the fees and whatnot

get refunded as well. Right. And there can be accounting challenges for everyone up and down the chain, right? Yes. Yeah. Because if you have already remitted and whatnot get refunded as well right and there can be accounting challenges for everyone up and down the chain right because if you have already remitted the taxes you collected let me tell you something the state of california ain't going to be giving you back those taxes you remitted

no matter who you refunded whatever you refunded to yeah so there's challenges yeah well i mean even if you just eat it the reporting for that would be a nightmare i don't even know how you would account for it right so it's an it's a nightmare so yeah i'd be trying to look for a compromise uh but i agree with you you don't have a choice you have to offer the option you have to do something you have to offer the option and a bunch of people are going to take it. But if you are sincere and you are open, and this time you're honest, you might have a solid amount of people that don't run.

But they didn't do that. They've taken too long. And honestly, this response seems kind of half-baked as far as I'm concerned. Someone just needs to sue the trash out of them. I just, they're not going to be successful. It's a Chinese company. Oh, right. What are they going to do? trash out of them. I just, they're not going to be successful. It's a Chinese company. Oh, right.

What are they going to do? Yeah, fair enough. Nothing. Like China's going to protect their own. Get them banned from selling in the States or something. Yeah. And so I just, from my point of view, Anchor's on our list at this point, which is unfortunate. We really enjoyed working with them, actually.

I really liked Anchor. I genuinely liked the products. Me too. So it sucks because finding good long-term sponsor partners is not something that's easy. And I feel for the poor sales team here, right? Because when I just rug pull them and I go, hey, yeah, that account that you've been handling that's doing however many thousands of dollars a year, guess what? You're not working with them anymore by edict of the king.

Like that sucks, right? Oh, it does. Yeah, like imagine you worked in sales somewhere, right? Your boss comes into the room and says, yeah. Certain quotas and all this type of stuff. Yeah, that car that's on the lot, you can't sell that car anymore. Or like you can't work with, I know i don't know families anytime a family

walks on the lot you can't sell them anymore or whatever it is right kind of frustrating like that's that sucks what i just let them walk by i just let them walk by i got quotas to hit right that sucks so let me do my job that's just the way it's gonna have to be though i think i just don't see a way out for us we can can't, in good conscience, continue to work with them. We have to have standards. The way out of this topic, though, is transitioning into NVIDIA ending GameStream and recommending Steam Link, which was really weird and surprising to me. Yeah. NVIDIA has announced that it will be ending its Shield TV GameStream feature in February 2023.

its Shield TV game stream feature in February 2023. In response, users have expressed frustration and disappointment, with some arguing that the Steam Link app recommended by NVIDIA as an alternative is just not as good. For example, some users have reported that Steam Link has lower quality video, less responsive controls, or slower speeds compared to game stream. Others have complained that the app's interface or the need to purchase a separate device to use it. Now, separate device, I mean, you already needed an NVIDIA Android device to use GameStream. So I don't know if I really buy that one

because you can install Steam Link on a Shield. To be fair, I think it's a separate device compared to what, oh, I see. Yeah. Yeah, so I don't agree with that. However, I do think that nvidia's investment into game stream was um a real one and a good one it was a good product it was one that i personally was very enthusiastic about so i've used steam link and they're right it's not as good

it just i want steam link to be great um but it's just not there there are alternative options like moonlight that's dependent on game stream oh is it really i thought it just used the encoder i didn't think it actually piggybacked on game stream i'm not 100 certain in in my completely independent of writing this article research, I heard that it's dependent on GameStream. Oh, that sucks. Right now, due to the power issues we're having, we don't actually have chat. These local laptops do not have internet at all. Yeah, so we're working on that,

but for now we got nothing. So I can't look into any of this and I can't see what you guys are saying, but some have suggested using Sunshine, which is a GameStream host for Moonlight, as an alternative. Do you have a sim tool? I do.

I know. We should have at least like three hours. Three hours? Let's go! There's a Jackery plugged into the UPS. There's a Jackery plugged into the UPS. Jackery has a 20 amp plug. Because it has a 20 amp plug. Of course it does.

Shout out, shout, they didn't sponsor the WAN show today, but they might as well have. Shout out Jackery for like sending us a new Jackery every time we do any kind of work with them. So we just have this pile of Jackeries that we keep charged in the event of an emergency. With good reason. And are now using, which is amazing. Oh, you can use your phone. Yeah, my phone has internet. So perfect. I'm keeping it away from the cables because there's crazy

feedback that comes through but whatever cool um because moonlight uses nvidia game streams nvidia's game stream protocol it is unclear if it will still work after the mid-february update so it might work might but maybe not forever or it might just not God we have we have no idea a petition this isn't going to work a petition on change.org has been created to try to reverse the decision to shut down game stream the petition itself isn't going to work at all maybe

pressure in general towards NVIDIA something but no one has cared about petitions since like the internet started um yeah so it's just a thing uh yeah which is unfortunate to be clear we're not saying it should be that way it just hasn't seemed to have any kind of effect if you really want to get a company's attention i would say that a hundred tweets to their corporate handle is going to be 100 times more effective than 10,000 signatures on a change.org petition. Especially if you get a bunch of people

to do it at a very similar time, so you can get it to trend or something like that. And at a time over an extended period of time. You need this to, because the thing is you can't rely on just the low level customer interaction layer. It has to make it pass them into middle management, into upper management, and an upper manager has to hear it from multiple if it starts and then it dies off before it hits that level yes the person at that level is just going to go look it it's already over yes it's fine this is clearly resolved yeah so if you are upset you have to make noise you have to continue to make noise and then you have to not stop making noise and you have to hope a lot of other people

are doing the same thing yeah if you're by yourself it's not going to accomplish much i mean for i man i see this in a number of different ways i haven't touched game stream in a long time i was just going to say i have three shields in my house and i haven't touched it as much as this sucks it might ultimately be what nvidia needs to do as much as we just told everyone how to complain about this properly if not enough people are using it and if it's not really a driver for people to purchase their products etc and it's this huge cost sink like companies are companies yeah and nvidia is definitely a company oh heck yeah so like if it's there are some cost sinks that companies will keep around cough cough the forum um that doesn't cost that much not really it's it's not a huge cost sink

but it yeah it definitely loses money um it not yeah not a ton but it's negative um but like you can't do that with everything game stream is probably a relatively complicated thing to keep updated and working with everything all the time and performant and whatnot. So like, I'm not happy this is going away. And I'm sure that the people who like started the change.org petition and the people that are really angry about this are people who have heavily integrated this into their setups.

And that sucks. Yep. That's the thing. That's what Apple is so good at. They don't always have the best product, but damn it, that sucky product in their walled garden with their stupid limitations

is going to still exist in five years. Yep. Not always. I mean, their servers went away. What else could I point at? I mean, their professional desktops effectively went away uh what else could i point at as i mean their professional desktops effectively went away then came back for one generation and seem to have gone away again they're not perfect but if you buy an iphone you can expect continuity you can expect that software for iphone will still be an option

on newer hardware that i mean 3d touch uh you know by and large works the same way that the old one did but more better like that's something that is something that just plain sucks on the the the pc android more wild west open side of things like i okay we did a video right before the wananshow on this wireless gpu okay there was a 460 that had five antennas hanging off of it gtx 460 i got all these antennas hanging off of it has this receiver dongle that comes with it that has an hdmi out that goes into any hd display and it was meant to be an all-in-one solution for wireless display okay super cool product but if you buy into that literally design your home theater setup around it thinking

i'm definitely gonna have an upgrade path for this over the next few years i'm gonna integrate this into my life you're an idiot because it's not gonna happen to be fair it's nvidia i don't think nvidia has killed a lot of their projects i can't think of it sorry um yeah but the whole world physics was around for a long time yeah and it's technically still around but not in the form that was promised to us in the days and agreed and in the wake of the nvidia acquisition us to us in the days and agreed and in the wake of the nvidia acquisition nvidia abandon wears things they do they do i guess i guess my brain just keeps comparing it to google and it's like no not really but yeah those are those are a few examples yeah the shield portable okay handheld handheld gaming consoles what happened to those one and done boom see you later now nvidia kills stuff let's not kid

ourselves fair enough fair enough um and so and so that really sucks and that's one of the reasons that smart home has smart home technology has been such a a struggle right because there's no ecosystem that you can buy into and just hope for continuity well you can buy into it and hope but you're but it's not going to come true and so our discussion question here is to what extent does the removal of something like game stream represent a broken promise to customers of the nvidia shield we can use wayback machine at this point to go look at the marketing of the shield look at how prominently nvidia featured this particular uh capability of the product in their marketing and say hey this is tantamount to outright false advertising at this point yeah and this is something that is happening more and more absolutely like a perfect example is what google's done with

their home with their hub products and their their nest products, where that lawsuit from Sonos affected their ability to set up the product to such an extent that it is extremely user-unfriendly now. I mean, I'm sorry, but there has to be legislation put in place that says if you advertise a fucking feature, you don't get to take it away with an update you can't update your product to make it worse my my steam deck doesn't work so i can't swear but it's like uh it's the power's out it's fine uh it's it's it's it's like the games recently

as well right we talked about these games especially vr games uh there was a few of them that didn't sell super well so they just completely offlined all their servers but they're online only games and people bought them i don't even care if one person bought it yeah you advertise this game you shouldn't be able to shut down the servers like one year later that's crazy yeah that's ridiculous or you should have to as we've said so many times you should have to release the server side code yeah at the very least and if nobody picks it up all right so be it yeah so be it but if you advertise the feature then i think there needs to be legislation in place your button's not working i found out um that in good faith you

have to provide the community. You have to give stewardship over to someone so that it can be maintained. Yeah. And I think when it comes to software, there's a vibrant enough open source community that someone would take this and run with it. I don't know if they're going to run with it as well as the, the subcom guys, but there, there is still, there are communities outside of the just honestly fairly stunningly awesome Supreme Commander community. There are communities outside of that that are running old games that have become open source or shareware in some way. And it's, it's pretty cool. We have one more.

Whoa. Is that intentional? Oh, i think they're using jackeries to restore wait no is this is the power on no okay emergency lights i think that yeah they're using jackeries to uh to bring the lights back on oh it is back on uh the emergency lights are off right that should yeah... Okay. All right. That's so lame. The jack reset three hours. All right.

We got this. Can we turn this back on? Yeah, it might be... Hey. All right. Cool. It's that right there. Is someone from Floatplane trying to figure out getting access to these files to kind of stitch everything back together?

AJ's on it. Yeah. AJ, you are an absolute French Canadian champion um I'm sorry I had to qualify I'm fair I'm fairly certain he's got the first one coming down already all right um I don't know I don't think he's even heard at this point that we need the second one if you're watching this AJ I'm sorry but it's true. All right, we're going to do our third maybe written by AI topic. Facial recognition was used to bar a lawyer, pun intended, from entering a venue.

And this maybe doesn't sound like that big of a deal, but it's a big deal. A mother accompanying her daughter's Girl Scout troop to a Rockettes show at Radio City Music Hall in Manhattan over the thanksgiving weekend was denied entry after facial recognition software allegedly identified her so this is before submitting any kind of identification or ticket or anything kelly conlon imagine doing this to a lawyer on purpose anyway kelly conlon the woman in question works as a lawyer

for a firm that is involved in a personal injury claim against um msg entertainment the group that owns the venue she does not however practice in new york and is not involved in the particular case so conlon claims she was approached by security and asked to produce identification after passing through the metal detectors into the main lobby. A sign in the lobby does state that facial recognition technology is in use for the safety of guests and employees. Interesting. MSG Entertainment claims they have a policy that precludes attorneys pursuing active litigation against the company from attending events at our venues until that litigation has been resolved brutal absolutely brutal the heck timeline are we on luke imagine going into uh i don't even know if

these exist imagine going into an anchor one random person who's never even heard of this story that works at uh one of the companies here walking into an anchor store and being told to leave because they know that they're employed by the parent company of this company that has some kind of ongoing dispute yeah like this can it doesn't even have to be a dispute right this can of worms is open wild imagine any uh sonos employee was to try to use a google service if they bought a google home and went to set it up and it used ai voice recognition to say hey we couldn't help noticing that you're such and such from google's hardware division uh why don't you go f yourself and uh yeah that's pretty much it see you later absolutely wild.

Yeah, that's crazy. Absolutely crazy. Discussion question. What are your feelings about facial recognition being used to bar people from events based on scraped data sets like this? When is it appropriate? When is it not? Where's the line? This is bad. I don't know i'm i'm hot spotted

uh i i can check though i'll check jinx you owe me a ride home i i mean that was the plan um i'm taking him for a ride in my new car yeah i haven Have you told anyone yet? I haven't really talked about it yet. I think that's the first public announcement. That's the first public acknowledgement. I don't know about appropriate, but one thing I'm going to throw out there is I think this might become a big thing for political events.

Yeah. Oh, wow. Because if you can keep protesters out by knowing what their affiliations are based on facial recognition where else they've been seen pairing that with public information like twitter accounts or whatever else yeah um and figuring out if you want to let people in uh i i think that's absolutely going to be a thing i'm not going to take a stance on whether how i feel about the appropriateness of

that i just see that happening i see this i see this coming down to a Supreme Court tier, like First Amendment kind of thing in the US. And then I suspect Canada is going to pull their usual thing where we basically just... Copy what the US does. Yeah, do whatever the US does. Yeah, we're a super cool independent country and we advance directly in step with the U.S. does. Yeah, do whatever the U.S. does. Yeah, we're a super cool independent country and we advance directly in step with the U.S.

Sometimes we ignore what they do, which is good. Other times we ignore what they do and it's not as good. Anywho, the point is that this is, I think this is headed for the Supreme Court because I think ultimately there's going to be like a personal rights argument from both sides. On the one hand, discriminating against someone based on their profession or their place of work seems like pretty open shut. But on the other hand, to tell a venue that they do not have the right to refuse service to an individual customer on their own bloody property

is also seems pretty open and shut right it's weird there's a strong argument both ways strong argument there's a lot of technological stuff coming out right now that the law is so far behind yes and it doesn't help that half of the legislators in the Western world are septuagenarians, as far as I can tell. No idea what's going on. No idea what's going on. And even the younger ones, quite frankly, could stand to be a little more tech savvy based on a lot of the C-SPAN that I've seen. Yep. Yep. Okay, so at least one.

Jake has apparently joined the show. Oh, no, he's not sitting in the producer cam. So we missed him. Lean to the right, Jake. Apparently he's here in case the power goes out again. Things have gotten a little hairy this evening. It's been a fun night. My roof caved in. That's a fun thing.

Minutes after leaving my apartment to come to work i got a call from my girlfriend saying that uh part of the ceiling had ripped through and it was raining in one of the bathrooms um we thought it was a previous a leak that we had previously found in the house that was caused by the ac it wasn't that it was the roof of the apartment building was leaking into the attic and then ripped through our ceiling so that was cool i haven't been to go i haven't been able to go help with that but she's been doing a great job luke had to co-host a video with me before the show today uh reacting to our worst videos and he should it okay. For real. I'm talking from the heart here, okay?

I have to commend your professionalism. Oh. He showed up looking like an actual storm cloud. Like, jaw set, teeth clenched, pissed. We turned on the camera, and he's like, ha ha, this video's terrible! Ha ha ha! Classic Luke. It helps that they this video is terrible. Classic Luke.

It helps that they were actually pretty terrible. We've made some stickers over the years. There's one, there's one that I had completely forgotten about. I actually have no memory of it at all. Hosted by Luke. Hosted, like clearly it's something that i did and it's it's really bad i wow yeah there's also a couple in there that i expected to see the uh the blackberry one i like i did the the second i heard the premise of the video i was

like blackberry video blackberry video is gonna be in there it's awful oh yeah it's terrible but yeah that'll be a that'll be a fun video. I have done some stuff. You know, I didn't feel like as a mid-20-something that my sense of humor was probably going to change. I felt like what I was doing and thought was funny then, I would probably still think is funny in 10 years. It's not funny. We laughed at it.

We did laugh. But we were laughing at me that wd video was so funny it was not funny it was cringe yeah i guess it was cringe so hard that it goes all the way around back to funny there's a couple comments about my birds the birds are fine um my girlfriend got the birds back into cages. They're covered. Everything's fine. We did not include the hide your porn one. I don't even think that video was that bad.

I think that video did okay. It might be cringy. Like the humor is probably terrible. Oh, as bad as anything we've ever done. I think like performance wise, I think it did fine. I'll always remember the script review meeting for that. Because Luke wrote some cringy like it was his idea to have like basically a lot of the shots be you know uh suggestive right and then i think that you thought do you remember this uh i i not with full clarity i yeah i think that you thought i was

gonna come in and tone it down and then i amped it up to the point where even you were kind of like oh this is pretty bad that honestly sounds about right yeah yeah yeah 2.2 million views on that yeah um it's pretty good from seven years ago there's some real tech tips in there i mean i don't know how relevant most of them are now that incognito mode and like just everything being shockingly easily accessible is the thing yeah i guess would help it hide from you like your parents to a certain degree but incognito mode isn't really enough i know i'm pretty sure true crypt was in there which isn't really a thing anymore um so like it's it's definitely a little dated but yeah like it probably useful still

okay back to it though we just did three core topics eufy nvidia facial recognition some amount i haven't told them how many it could be all of them it could be one could be two some amount of them were written massaged slightly so that it fits our format a little bit better um but but written with some minor edits by chat gpt and now you need to try to identify which ones i also because i think this is important and interesting want to know why you think this for each one man the fact that the fact that it's this tough is very interesting okay but the fact that a human went through and massaged it that is true that is true makes it really i don't know how much of that was done because it wasn't me uh james prepared this um i do know that he said like many of these are like full sentences like he mostly shaped it instead of changed it, if that makes sense.

That's my understanding. It's been a bit... A lot has happened since I talked to James. I think the Yuffie one was written by ChatGPT. Okay. that's the only one that i think for sure was written by chat gpt so you get one point you get okay no you get hold on hold on hold on okay he hasn't explained the point so i think i can still clarify further yeah i think that theVIDIA one was written by a human. Okay.

I am not sure about the facial recognition one. I don't know how to give you points anymore. You got one right. Okay. You got one wrong. And you got one maybe, I guess. The answer to the facial recognition one, the facial recognition one was written by a human.

Both of the other two are chat GPT. Shoot. Wow. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Yeah.

Wow. Pretty crazy, eh? Yeah. So we've talked about this privately, and I don't have this prepared. But someone made, I wish, I wonder if I can bring it up. Here, I mean, just so that you guys can see what the notes look like for these, because that might not be something that will translate perfectly for you. Here's the Eufy topic,

which the reason that I thought that it was chat GPT was because it was far less editorialized than some of our writers tend to. There's also things like in a blog post addressed to Eufy security customers and partners, bubble anchor, all of it's properly capitalized. There's a few things that can make it stand out slightly this one though the fact that it like really talked about you know what's going on

around this so i will add some context yeah it wasn't done and and some people on the stream will know this and i think you'll know this it wasn't done by just saying like hey summarize this link because it can't can't do that it't crawl the web. So information was given to it. Talking points were given to it and then it turned them into whatever. So we gave it notes still. Yeah. One of them, uh, James gave it, I think it was like five or six links. It gave it the links and like a five word blurb for each link. That was the NVIDIA one actually. I wonder if I have a screenshot.

I don't know if I'd be able to find it. It's in my team, so I wouldn't be able to show it very effectively on stream. But just very little information. But from information that is naturally in the URL of something that isn't obfuscated and the little tiny like three to five word little snippet of each post it wrote this nvidia article wow which is like pretty good wow it was a hundred percent enough for us to go off of super super interesting um i was talking to linus the other day about um oh this is not even the one that I found. I Googled it. I found a different one. So more than one person has done this, which is interesting. Should I go to your

laptop? Um, I guess, I think this is what, yeah, you can go to it. So this is a, I don't know, every.t. I've never heard of this before. I built an AI chat bot based on my favorite podcast. Um, this is a different person though AI chatbot based on my favorite podcast. This is a different person though than the one that I linked you. Yeah. And it's not the exact same thing, but it's extremely close. This one looks like a command line thing,

whatever, I don't know. So the one that I had found, it's an actual website that you can go to. These are both based off of the Huberman Lab podcast. But people have taken, I'm assuming, I have not read this article. The other one,

I know this is how this works and I'm assuming this person did it in the same way. They use a different OpenAI product. Yeah. So they fed all of Dr. Huberman's podcasts through Whisper they made it so that you can ask the chat bot, effectively, questions about what Dr. Huberman says in his podcast. And it will go through all of the transcripts of all of these like three hour long, super dense podcasts. And it will pull answers out for you. The other one will also cite its references. So it'll say like i got this from

this podcast at this minute and you can click on it it'll bring up the podcast at that time so you can listen to the original audio just in case you don't trust the transcription this is super interesting for like a bunch of reasons. This is terrifying for content creators. Podcast industry. Yeah. Especially if you are a very information dense podcast, like the Heberman Lab podcast, because now people don't have to listen to your content or consume it at all. These random people on the internet

just made a way completely detached from your content. That you have absolutely no way of being paid for. Nope. And they made a way for people to completely bypass all of your stuff. It's super helpful for users that want to pull information out of it. It's super not helpful for you being able to grow your channel or your audience. Or continue to do your podcast. Continue to do it at all, really.

So from a copyright standpoint though man see how do you control it i mean it's just like the artist thing right so there's nothing inherently wrong with ai generated or machine learning generated artwork the issue is how it was trained and proper compensation for the data set that it was trained on and luke talked about this extensively enough in last week in the week before that i don't think we need to tread over it again this week but basically there's no problem with a bot that compiles answers to questions as long as it is properly compensating whoever's original work was used to train it but as of this time that's not being done and there is no framework whatsoever for that to be done so for the same

reason that artists are crying foul about their artwork being used to train their machine replacement i could see a podcaster crying foul about their body of work their body of copyrighted work being used to create a tool that irrelevance their copyrighted work and i don't think you're going to be able to make a very solid fair use argument for something like this because yes for personal use you could probably make the argument that there is nothing wrong with watching all of the episodes therefore having all of the words for yourself and making those words, creating an index of those words and a way to recall various words in some way. Right. But as soon as you make it more broadly available, especially commercially available,

that falls apart. To be fair, all the ones that I've seen so far have not been commercially driven. Uh, one interesting one, the first one that I found, and I don't know why I can't find it right now. I'm sure I could if I use my Google food a little bit more effectively. But the first one that I found, the whole thing is open source too. You put it all on GitHub. And the fact that multiple people have done this already, prove that it's not really that hard. The person that I had looked into originally said it took them less than a day. Yeah.

The process is all kind of already there. You're just sort of linking things together, right? We've got a couple interesting viewer comments here. So Eric RC on Floatplane says, Linus, I disagree. I don't believe most people listen to podcasts just

for answers there's a definite entertainment value but this is just like what i was talking about earlier where just because you don't need to put your laptop to sleep doesn't mean that i don't so yeah this podcast uh i don't think anyone necessarily no one knows he's no needs to search this for information or it's unlikely but someone could yeah because we're we're going to be a secondary source a lot of the time unless you're looking for information about like my life or luke's life or whatever else the case may be and if that's the case um probably it would be more interesting to hear it as told by us anyway yeah i think the show is a more entertainment show anyhow um and i'm not saying that because there's some kind of like liability.

Oh, advice on the WAN show should be taken for entertainment purposes only. It's just, I do think that that's the show that we try to run for you guys. But that doesn't mean that every podcast is like that. Some of them are very Q&A driven, very information driven. And Hubermans are extremely information driven. There are also lots. And not that entertaining. there are also lots entertaining there are also lots i don't know about that one but sure but but there there is a lot you're right

though there is a lot of educational or informational based podcasts there's tons of science-based podcasts there's tons of uh even like uh it's more about keeping up with the industry yes and less about being entertained yes right yeah and so or like imagine there's a self-help podcast sure you might look for answers to somewhat common self-help questions by using this thing whatever it is there are lots of not just like storytelling entertainment style yes things and so that's a that's a big challenge um and an ethereal llama says isn't this part of the territory when you post free content on the internet though no no the content isn't free we've talked about this before and some people are never going to understand it but that's really just not my problem at a certain point the content isn't

free there is an implicit agreement that the content is going to be supported in some way otherwise it won't exist otherwise it would explicitly be said that it is free linus tech tips is not free linus tech tips is paid for by by actual money which we get from ads or from subscriptions and it is it is possible that something is free but that also does not mean that its license allows you to do this with it. Correct. There is a ton of different levels of variation when it comes to licensing. And you could absolutely release a podcast with a license where you allow people to do this. Absolutely.

There's nothing stopping you from doing that. You could say everything that I say into this podcast is free for everyone to use in any way. And no, I did not just say that about WAN Show. But you could say that, but I do not believe that has been said by these people. But what I was going to say is a dangerous intrusive thought that comes up when I've already heard about this thing where they're taking podcasts and they're transcribing them and stuff, what stops people from setting up an RSS feed of trusted news sites, setting up a bot that is able to scrape the body of an article without grabbing all the ads and the other junk that's on the page, taking all of that, feeding it to chat GPT, getting chat GPT to rewrite it, and then getting

another system that they make to automatically post these actually, because chat GPT is pretty good at it, genuinely rewritten articles. And then they put their own ads on them. And then they just put their own ads on and then they just put their own monetizing someone else's work yep it's all automated yep like and so you know what it's not going to completely destroy industries in a day no maybe not even in a year give it 10 years i mean even three yeah it's it's gonna be going a very that is already an entire news industry yeah but it's usually junk and if you're like paying attention pretty much at all you can usually kind of tell no you can a lot of people can't fair enough which is why we're but this this moves that bar up quite a bit yeah people have found a few different accounts because you can kind of prod them in the right way that people have found a few different accounts because you can kind of prod them in the right way.

People have found a few different Twitter accounts that are using AI generated faces as their profile that look extremely convincing. Like you can't tell. Especially at that size, at that resolution. You really can't tell. And then they have fully chat GPT written tweets and replies. The whole account. And the ones that I have kind of found with, with advice from other people on how to find them,

et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Um, all of the ones that I've found, it looks like people are just experimenting. I don't think they're really using them to any goal yet, but it's going to happen.

We're headed in an interesting direction and it's hard to find out uh lauro does says what about content creators doing this themselves to search their podcasts i mean yeah we could sure but what i can tell you is that right now there is no like zero effective way to monetize something like this and pretty much any podcast that you know and love if it has any kind of monetization on it now if you were to say to the creator hey why don't you use this tool where people don't have to watch the podcast you monetize and they can just get all the information that they need without watching it and you monetizing it why don't you do that they're gonna be like what why some some that like they really don't care about their

podcast as a career path or whatever and they just want the information absolutely sure and again i did specify ones that are currently monetized okay yeah there you go yeah yeah pretty much and kai m says i mean adblock is a thing what's your take on how this is different to that it's not what his take is on that is pretty documented yes i think i i think i've been pretty clear about it uh the part that people got confused about is i never actually said never use an adblocker what i said is own it. Yeah. Just own it. Yeah. Understand what I'm doing. Put on your hat. Yeah. Wear your shirt.

Yeah. We've even sold a shirt. Yeah. I like it. Just own it. It's a nice shirt. That's all I said. Just deal with it.

And if you have like, if you feel all guilty about the word, then you should do some self-reflection. Yeah. But yeah. Otherwise, then just, yeah, just own it. Just deal with it. You are our divinity free. Do, do, do,. Otherwise, then just, yeah, just, just own it. Just deal with it.

You are our divinity for you. Do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do. Yeah, exactly. Um, ADFAKLSDJF over on float plane says, I bought two shirts. Yeah, you did. I don't think, yeah yeah we very understandably i yeah i will say but i don't think we have been doing uh merch message curation at all oh yeah we shoot okay um where's dan uh is dan still here i don't know i'm looking through them right now uh okay uh yeah well hey we've actually got an update on

ltt store speaking of ways that we will still be able to survive because we are a mature well diversified company i don't mean mature like we don't make fart drugs joiks jokes um i mean mature like we have developed a lot of revenue streams to help us whether uh you know whatever ai storms are headed this way ltd store is a huge one uh i think i said this before but a 2022 is the year that ltd store's revenue will be greater than our media production revenue uh massive shout out to all of you guys for absolutely for making this possible massive shout out to the team responsible for it uh nick kyle brid Bridget, Sarah, Lloyd. Oh my goodness, I'm going to miss some people.

It's going to be really awful. You know, Natalie, Adam, Nolan. There's some new people in customer care. I don't know their name yet, so I'm not going to include them. But you know, we got Hannah, Matthew, Alamadey. The team there is amazing. Thank you.

Massive, massive shout out to the float plane team for making that whole thing happen. Like, it's been it's been a long time coming, but it means that our future as an independent media company is basically assured as long as you guys continue to support us in that way. We've got a deal for you guys this week. Where is it? Oh, wait, this just says lttstore.com deal of the week question mark i thought we did have something to talk about this week oh we have something i didn't talk about last week if nothing else um yeah is that still running we launched the mystery hoodie well it's not a matter of like writing or not yeah we just have a new product so the mystery hoodie is 49.99 you don't know what hoodie you'll get but you can find some hints in the uh in the reviews that that are up we ran this as a promo during the black fridays uh period it's yeah that's not the pricing that we're going to be doing for it in the long term it's going to be 50 bucks but we've got everything from small to triple xl and you guys

can uh check it out mystery hoodie sales are final. We do not offer returns or exchanges, but it is a way to get yourself into an LTT hoodie for a pretty aggressive price. We're also shipping backpacks in real time now. They're not backordered in any way. What else is there that I could really say about the store right now? I mean, yeah, I guess that's probably enough. Right, and picking something up on the store is the way to send a message into the show. They're called merch messages, and they're better than Super Chat, better than Twitch Bits, because all of the money you spend will go into something that you actually get to keep and use and enjoy instead of lining the pockets of big tech.

That's our sales pitch and uh if youtube and twitch and facebook uh operated the same way as twitter i probably wouldn't be allowed to say that but hey we never live streamed on twitter so yeah whatever deal with it oh we figured out afterwards you can't per Periscope's dead. Right. Spaces is not the same thing. So we couldn't. Yeah. Yep. Uh, alright. I guess we should do a couple? Have you... I have curated

some. I'm working on going through the incoming ones. Dan's not here, so I'm gonna go ahead and go through a couple of our curated ones and we'll get back to some more topics here. Should I talk about the big thing that happened this year like the really big one the one where we convened like a council of people to talk about it it's it's past the nda date for it so i could talk about it like the first one the the really big event that the really big maybe the really big event that we talked about and ultimately decided not to to do though the second event then should we talk about the

second big event i'll let you think about it while i go through a couple of messages i don't think so i mean i think it might be interesting for the people to have some idea it's also the kind of thing that if i worked here i probably wouldn't want to hear about it on the wan show yeah but i mean are they used to it at this point maybe i mean they are but that doesn't mean it's a good thing um atomic age a silver on float plane says do it cowards i mean i would say the same thing if i was in the audience um i do think you should probably discuss this with other internal people before we do though james ryan says do you have a recommendation for messaging into the show for people who might not want to

have a physical object show up uh buy a gift card on ltt store and then just never spend it i guess or spend it eventually or gift it it's a gift card yeah give it to someone else it buy a gift card on ltt store and then just never spend it i guess or spend it eventually or gift it it's a gift card yeah give it to someone else it's a gift card yeah at least that way you're not throwing away any money yeah right yep don't throw away money because like what's the overhead on like uh on a super chat like 30 40 something like that yeah why are you doing that yeah all right uh anonymous says hey guys wanting to get into it soon and with the technical difficulties experienced tonight i was wondering how help desk issues are solved at lmg is there an official ticketing system or just grab the nearest linus uh there's no official ticketing system so you would first go to logistics with Dan being your main point of

contact for that sort of thing. And then if he's not around, I believe there's someone else who is like can kind of be helpful. And then it's going to fall to Jake. We actually have some documentation for catastrophic failures that Luke and Jake have been working together on so that you'll be you'll have some docs that you can go to. They're not really intended for the average user. They're intended for more like a me or an Anthony to look at. Or even people that work on it all the time. It's mostly a like, everything around you is on fire and everyone's panicking. Let me go back to this thing so I don't actually have to think about it. So I can put my mental

power elsewhere and just follow these steps and get everything back online as soon as possible. It also like organizes all the information that you need, does stuff like that. It's a good idea to have disaster recovery procedures. It's something that I think we could do better, but it's something that also is working reasonably well for us. I think that because we are a company of relatively tech savvy people, we probably have a lot fewer, I can't figure out how to open my email client. My computer won't turn on.

Oh, it's not plugged in. Yeah, than many companies would. So it hasn't overloaded those guys yet. But as we expand into more, say for example, like physical goods manufacturing, where we can't expect people to have a high level of technical proficiency, like maybe they're a wizard with a sewing machine.

But, you know, a computer, what's a computer, right? I don't, I don't know, then we might have to deal with more of that. And it might be something that we'll have to address. Kevin M, can you test whether lifting a laptop by its palm rest causes a mouse click to register? I frequently carry around my laptop while watching full screen videos and it's frustrating having them pause all the time both my xps 15 and my lg gram do this so i curated this i thought it was actually kind of an interesting question because i have experienced this before me too so like maybe something interesting for the labs to consider if they start getting into laptop testing it could even be like a mostly pass fail like if by lifting it at any point in these sort of

designated areas, it causes a mouse click to register, then fail kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah. It's an interesting, interesting idea. All right. I'm going to submit that to Gary. You might have to do the next one because I'm typing an email. Okay. I'm actually going to do one that isn. You might have to do the next one because I'm typing an email. Okay, I'm actually going to do one that isn't curated yet, but I was just going to curate it. So this is from Colin R.

He said, what are your thoughts on the potential of AI-generated video game assets? Do you think that... Oh, I found it again. Do you think that engines like Unity or Unreal Engine will develop tools for easy integration of AI- AI generated assets in the workflow? I think they are absolutely going to be a thing.

I would highly suspect that both of those engines will eventually find some form of integration, including the potentiality of that integration just being a tool that is built into that engine. I have already seen examples of people using chat GPT input prompts into something. I don't remember what it was. It was some AI art program thingamajigger and it was making texture maps for models that they made in 3D. Yeah. I saw that too. Like CAD software. So they were modeling like buildings and buildings or they were texturing like buildings and stuff. Some of them were surprisingly good.

Does it look perfect? No. No. But I've seen games that were worse. I've seen finished games that were a lot worse. Yeah, relatively modern ones too. Like, yeah, it's 100% going to be a thing for sure. Stable diffusion, was that it?

Yeah, I think a bunch of people saw this. It was relatively trendy. So yeah. Absolutely wild. All right. You guys have got some more time to send in some merch messages. The producer's back.

Sup, Dan? Hello. How are the, yeah. Look at him yeah yeah you've seen better days my friend I live for this stuff don't you worry yeah

hell yeah oh yeah let's go this has been an absolute poo show today to be fair this is good stuff yeah we appreciate you guys sticking with us through the technical difficulties for once it wasn't our fault at all and i think the response to it was pretty good we you know what if it hadn't been flawless if it hadn't been for a thing that i can't really disclose that is

special about the wanshow setup i don't think our i don't think our stream would have even stopped wouldn't even have coughed. No, it was just that. That was the only problem. And we will have that addressed for next time. It was just one of those things. We just didn't think about that the WAN show will need to continue through a power outage. We are set up so that in the event

of a long-term power outage, we can at least finish, we can have one editor finish today's video. That's kind of the, that's the bar, right? And everyone else can shut down their work, or shut down their computers and save their work safely. But now that we know that we could do this, I'm thinking daisy chain jacqueries.

I'm thinking backup batteries on all the key pieces of infrastructure let's go power off land show yeah we can do about three and a half hours yeah which is i mean a lot of land shows get pretty close to that these days but not longer but they don't go past that yeah yeah oh i'm excited i'm excited this great. All right. What else do we got today? Apple to allow third-party app stores and side loading in Europe due to Digital Markets Act. We talked about this a little bit last week, but it hadn't been fleshed out in the doc because of a miscommunication. So we're going to get into it in a little bit more detail.

One really quick thing. Dan, are you on merch messages now? I'm trying my best. Got it. If you guys can help, that'd be great okay apple has signaled that it will abide the eu's digital markets act and allow third-party app stores and side loading on i devices this is exciting the dma is intended to prevent abuse of market power and allow new players to enter digital markets, basically leveling the playing field against big tech. It was signed into law in September, came into effect in November,

and active enforcement will begin in May. That is a fast timeline for such an earth-shaking change to the way that these digital markets have worked up until now. Apple's objections to date have been numerous. It will be confusing for users. It will be a gold rush for the malware industry and a cyber criminal's best friend. This would destroy the security of the iPhone. I'll be very interested to see if Apple's marketing around the security of the iPhone changes.

I'm willing to bet they don't say the iphone is not secure yeah hmm so maybe they can overcome this after all interesting and they said android experiences five million attacks per month okay yeah um and how many do they yeahidentally, the news triggered a stock surge for dating services and apps. Oh, wow. You'll finally be able to have, say, for example, a pornography app on the App Store. Yeah. Apple has long taken a moral high ground against certain types of content. Well, unless it's in Safari web browser. Nobody can use Apple software and hardware to view such things.

Get real guys. While this is broadly seen as a victory for consumers, some are less sure. Sami Fathi, a writer for MacRumors, says that many questions remain on how Apple might implement this and suggests that it might, in effect, force people to sideload. Apps must be able to access services and sensors and sideloading could offer greater control for apps than the App Store's restrictions allow.

I have no idea what Sammy's point is right now. Companies like Meta and Spotify are incentivized to leave as they're in direct competition with Apple and chafe under App Store's rules. Yeah. So no, what's actually going to happen is in order for Apple to maintain any kind of revenue from the App Store,

they're going to have to take a less abusive cut and they're going to have to relax their their policies it's good is this is good for consumers all you're doing is re-sami all you're doing is reiterating why this is good for consumers um okay bit odd this is a problem this is a really good point making sure that people are running the latest app revision this way is going to be a major issue for developers versus just having the app store manage this. That's going to be messy. And then this third point, basically, it's a mess all around. I disagree. Android already allows sideloading. No, it is not a mess all around most users i promise you don't side load anything and it'll probably be the same way but if apple has major cash cow apps come to them one after

another after another after another this is finally a way for partners to put pressure on Apple to actually be partners rather than servants of Apple, rather than just being grateful that Apple gives them the privilege of being part of their fiefdom or whatever. Limited sideloading is already a thing on iOS, so yeah, things might not change that much. But right now it's very restrictive. Users have to import a certificate to do so it has to be refreshed weekly to function if you aren't a developer. There's an app limit of three. Alt store, I've never even heard of this is apparently a third party app store that automatically refreshes the certificates. Now this discussion question who's right here and why I think I've made my position pretty clear. This is a win for consumer choice. And again, this discussion question, who's right here and why, I think I've made my position pretty clear.

This is a win for consumer choice. And again, this is one of those things where if you're an Apple user who wants to only use the App Store, then by all means, you should have no objection to this for everyone else because you can keep just using the App Store. Go for it. I don't want to. And I don't like Apple's monopolistic behavior. So I might choose to do something else. It's called consumer choice. You have the choice to do it that way. And this is effectively a legislative body stepping in and saying, yeah, Apple has not in good faith,

provided consumer choice, has not in good faith provided consumer choice, has not in good faith put themselves on a level playing field with their competitors on their ecosystem and has behaved in a monopolistic way. If they had acted in good faith, this probably wouldn't have come to bite them, but they didn't and so it has. Too bad. I don't feel bad for them. I just can't. too bad. I don't feel bad for them. I just can't. They've been just arseholes to deal with. Yeah, absolutely. At like every turn. They've made their bed. Now they sleep in it. I'm glad the EU actually has the stones to do this. Now, the next discussion question is, what would a more open iPhone look like? Would you be more or less likely to buy one if it supported third-party app stores and

sideloading because man with sideloading i'm imagining anyway a lot more functionality that i just can't get unless i want to jailbreak this stupid thing yeah i think it really depends it depends what services start putting themselves up to be sidelo. It depends if users really start actually doing it at all. Because if users don't do it, then companies aren't going to bother running that setup anyways. There's a lot of variables there. I think it's one of those things

where first generation of it might not necessarily matter too much. But it'll be interesting to see how it evolves over time. I have another discussion question would flow plane just immediately go the side loading route or would we try and stay on the app store because i know which way i lean right now but let's have executive dialogue here let's talk about synergies what uh one problem with side loading one of the reasons why we've avoided sending out packages

like that in the past is updates. Yeah, absolutely. We don't have an in-app updater that is something that is possible, but that is a tool that we would have to make. Which costs money. Yeah. So I don't know. It really depends.

I could definitely see someone making some open source package updater for iphones or something yeah or an alternate app store or that might have their own updater yeah yeah something like so so if i mean there's a lot of potential there um there's definitely a lot more we could do with the app if we could if we could just let it get side loaded um there's there's a lot of things that we've been stopped from doing. Like, we'll get complaints. People will email customer support and they're like, hey, this isn't very intuitive. It's like, you are 100% correct.

I completely agree with you. And I apologize that there's nothing we can do about it. Yeah. Because, like, we can't. They're like, it would be really great if when I go to try to do this thing, it could tell me that like I have to do it on the website. And it's like, yep, that would be awesome. But we can't. We can't send you to our website.

Sorry. It is what it is. Ridiculous. It's just. And they've gotten a little bit better with it over time. But like it's still far from what I would consider acceptable. Yeah. I think merch messages are much more under control there's there's three uh

potentials no incoming and then we have 15 curated so we have a lot to go through but the the wave has uh subsided let me uh let me jump through a couple of these really quickly um epic games is going to be paying half a billion dollars for coppa violations and the use of dark patterns are you familiar with dark patterns yeah i would think that you would be good then why don't you explain them because you probably know more about them than i do a dark pattern uh and i apologize if i explain this poorly but a dark pattern is like trying to mislead or trick users in certain ways um so manipulate your website or your service so that um manipulate the appearance of things manipulate the user experience of things like where you position different buttons manipulate things to try to funnel people

in a certain direction which is probably not something that they would want to do yeah so like if you if you kind of obscure your sign up to a newsletter thing and it's a checkbox and it's automatically checked but it's like really small and it's somewhere that you wouldn't expect that'd be a dark pattern that would be a dark or if you have like a um like a buy now button okay for a product someone might want and then in very small text it says you authorize us to send you one of these every month yeah and you didn't realize that you were recurring signing up for a subscription service that would be that would be a dark pattern so it's using subtlety to get users to do inputs that are not what they actually want

so uh 2455 million of the settlement is in refunds for dark patterns and billing practices that essentially made it too easy to make purchases in-game, often accidentally, according to the FTC. It is claimed that Epic

would intentionally switch button positions to create situations where charges were made with a single button press. Charges would also be made when the game would be woken from sleep mode through these dark patterns of deceitful UI. Until 2018, Epic would allow charges to be made without cardholder action or approval.

So by default, simple button presses would lead to charges. The rest of it is for violating the Children's Online Privacy Protection Act, COPPA, by not including adequate parental controls collecting children's personal information without parental consent and using overly relaxed privacy settings that included text and voice chat being active by default which I think we can all agree is not good when kids are gaming online I don't want to hear their annoying voices sorry what were you talking about other examples by the way can include things like some of these were brought up in flowplane chat uh if you're trying to like unsubscribe from something the like cancel

button being really big and obvious and the unsubscribe button being like a hyperlink that you can barely even tell as a button um one that you see fairly often with subscriptions man i was okay so a little while ago my uh my grandfather passed away and we were going through and canceling some of his online subscriptions and accounts and things and he had amazon prime canceling amazon prime is hard why is it so hard because daddy bezos needs more yachts and i legitimately think i i almost man i had told myself i wanted to rage on the way and show about this and i think i forgot about it but i think it's genuinely like oppressive to old people yeah because it's really confusing and they like move around where you need to press the cancel button

and they frame it in a bunch of really weird ways and like the website feels like it degrades like it feels like you go back to like 1990s internet because you get these like weird ancient uis as you're going through and like it's very weird you like you feel like you're doing something wrong like it just it's so not okay in my opinion. I don't know. It actually bothered me a lot. I already don't exactly have the most positive relationship with Amazon. So I do have to consider that. But it was actually really terrible. Yeah. Luke was probably in more of a hurry to cancel a Prime subscription than most people would be yeah that's probably fair enough uh but like another thing and this i i this is not a drag on him he had multiple amazon accounts that we ended up figuring out really easy to accidentally do that had multiple prime

subscriptions it should be way harder to do that yep like i just I just, man, I don't know. Someone in full plane chat just, just said I'm a sysadmin and it took me 20 minutes to cancel prime. It should be one click. That should not be okay. Like that's actually crazy. I don't know. It's in my opinion, that's an extremely egregious version of like a dark pattern.

Yeah. It's, it's trying to push people to not do the thing that you don't want them to do so yeah uh i just wanted to uh read this comment from jedi2 tagging dan you guys handled the outage well very impressed the show wasn't canceled tonight luke and i have a streak okay it's not allowed to happen it never entered my mind that the show was not going to go on tonight i will not be responsible yeah breaking the streak no no one here is going to be the one to break the streak i i was told that i have too much vacation time recently so i had to

book some vacation time and when i was trying to figure out when i could book it i was describing like okay i could do these things whatever i was like i can't take I could book it, I was describing like, okay, I could do these things, whatever. I was like, I can't take Fridays off. It's just, it's not an option. Wanshow must go on. When I was traveling, I technically had those Fridays off, but I was just like, no. I'm on vacation this week.

Yeah. Perfect example. You know that. Yeah. It's going to happen. Wanshow must go on. I'm on vacation right now. What's up? Speaking of things that might have brought people back from vacation,

this isn't really properly in the doc, but the write-up by Scotty Seng on the forum is quite good, so we're going to use that. Alert for LastPass users. The breach in August was worse than expected. A lot worse. I use LastPass. I've hated it for so long, but I have assigned the task of switching our corporate password manager over to something else to multiple people for like almost two years now and it hasn't been done. Actually, over a year. I think I'm going to take the mantle.

Are you? That would be great. Thanks. Yeah. Can we go with, is KeePass the one that has the local nonsense? I don't know. Well, I want that one. I haven't done research in like basically at all. I just, I've been like frustrated that we haven't switched for quite a while. And then this article came out and I was like, we're moving. It's like, I'm going to find a way. I'm going to get it done. We're moving. We have to move. But anyways, yeah. Previously mentioned breach in August. LastPass mentioned encrypted data was downloaded, but still secure. However, this recent update states that the breach was worse than expected as actors can brute force decrypt the copied backup vaults that were removed out of their LastPass secured cloud containers.

out of their LastPass secured cloud containers. LastPass is advertising users to, sorry, advising users to reset and update all passwords, especially the master password. This is not exactly... The worst part is that there's information that is stored in plain text. Yeah, so this is... Usernames and passwords, not so much.

But as far as i can tell the the main account information so the name uh email address is accessible to the hackers and the urls yes the urls were stored in plain text yeah so what that does is it makes the process of going through and trying to brute force the username and password much easier if you know what service it's for so that's one thing and number two is the entire web history of a user is pretty valuable even without the usernames and passwords and you would have it because they're tied it's not the entire web history well it's everywhere you have an account it's yeah it's very similar but not the same i'm just saying sure i'm just saying uh but yeah it's it's i mean this is horrible um

yeah i'm just gonna get out in front of it. I look at some bad stuff on the internet. Sure. Mine leaks, whatever. There's stuff in there. Yeah. And like one of the things too is like people can say like these master passwords are going to be basically impossible to brute force.

It's a non-zero possibility. And like compute, let's go like this. And people can find ways to break certain types of encryption and all this other type of stuff. So you should update all of your passwords and that's

going to suck. But you should do it anyways and you should leave LastPass. That would be my suggestion yeah yep so we need to update all of our passwords yeah and especially our passwords for celebrityfeetpicks.com yeah do you got that one i don't even know if that's a real site it probably is i think it has to be isn't there's some there's some website that does that i don't know if it's called that yeah this particular one isn't it nope it's uh it's this at the moment oh it seems to be parked yeah it's parked there's there's something like that though

oh i'm sure there is because i remember like forever ago you were on there or something on where i think we'd like joked about it you're on some website that like tracks celebrity feet pics i i guarantee this is a thing um i did not think this was going to be something we were going to be looking up on wanshow today um but i like men.wikifeet? Wikifeet, yeah. Hmm. Interesting. Yep. Is that you? I mean, this is. Yeah.

This almost certainly is. This is. I'm pretty sure this is. Yep. This is my old bathroom scale. That's definitely my towel. Yeah. Huh.

That's weird. Oh, you might want to close the page. I think there was something. No, no, no, no. Just close the page. Just close the page. Okay. I see. Yeah. All right. that's weird oh you might want to close the page i think there was something don't no no no close it just close the page just close the page okay i see yeah all right well it is what it is um a uk regulator warns that sharing netflix passwords may be illegal oh uk's intellectual property office

said on tuesday that sharing passwords to access content breaks copyright law the comment was seemingly unsolicited as netflix has never stated that it would take legal action against british people for sharing passwords which is jolly good of them, I suppose. And since making the comment, the IPO has removed references to password sharing from the guidance portion of their website, but a spokesperson confirmed the agency's stance on the matter, saying there are a range of provisions in criminal and civil law which may be applicable in the case of password sharing, where the intent is to allow a user to access copyright-protected works without payment. TLDR, sharing a password is illegal in both a criminal and civil sense,

according to this particular body. I'm going to interject for a second. What now? People pointed out that you didn't notice that was a problem because you don't see ads. It's true though. It just happened. We weren weren't kidding it's actually a thing oh i find that so funny remember those uh remember those ads that would have like a super attractive woman and then it would be like by the way there's a car in the picture or whatever oh like you know that that's super like cringe style of of ad yeah um you just see the car well no i just didn't see it you wouldn't see anything okay did you see the delay how long it took for me to find a pair of breasts on a web page

doesn't see the ad i can't see it it doesn't matter what's on the ad if it's an ad i can't see it it's invisible to me we try i'm so happy that we now have like really good proof because like i know it's a thing but when you try to tell people I think a lot of people are like oh yeah sure whatever like I don't I'm not affected by ads no he doesn't see them it's different it's actually fundamentally different so it's like Linus is adblock yeah I can get annoyed by them like the video we were shooting earlier with the worst videos we were logged into the Linus is ad block. Yeah. I can get annoyed by them. Uh, like the video we were shooting earlier, uh, with the worst videos, we were logged into the Linus tech tips, Google ads are, um, uh,

Google account. Uh, because that's the only way for us to see the true like dislike ratio, which kind of helps when we're, when we're watching the content and trying to figure out what was so bad about it. Right. Uh, and we don't have premium on that account and i was annoyed by waiting to watch the video i want to watch but i couldn't tell you a single thing we saw an ad for not a single one i have no idea all i really remember was registering because i we've talked about this before i have a premium account all i remember was registering that there was like we had to wait eight seconds for the current one and there was another one coming and i was like oh my goodness this is crazy but i don't remember what the ads were because all i'm looking at is that timer from when i can

click skip yeah that's literally the only thing interesting becomes like a reaction timing game as soon as i realize i can't skip it my attention is somewhere else it sure as heck isn't on my computer yeah yeah yeah but yeah sorry. Sorry. That was just, that was really funny. Um, any who, uh, despite no streaming service ever so much as hinting at pursuing legal action

against password sharers, um, CPS, yes. The crown prosecution prosecution service has not ruled out the possibility of it seeking criminal charges against people that privateer password from their friends and loved ones. That's gotta be wild. Oh, they would need to have the case referred to them.

So one of the streaming services would have to pursue legal action. Interesting. I mean, I don't think this is going to happen. To put this in perspective, torrenting could carry a sentence of up to 10 years. It was raised from two years in 2017 on the recommendation of the IPO. However, most prison sentences for piracy have been for those running torrent sites or live streams. Here's our discussion question. Oh, boy. If Floatcain were to pursue legal action against someone for sharing a password, what would you anticipate the fallout to be like? Terrible. We have never considered pursuing legal action for that.

We actually have some stuff that kind of tracks it. Really? I didn't even know. I know of a couple accounts that are almost certainly doing that. pursuing legal action for that we actually have some stuff that kind of tracks it um i really i don't even know know of a couple accounts that like are almost certainly doing that uh we have banned an account for doing it at least one account for doing it on like a mass scale i know that when when we think it's probably a situation like i ran into one where i actually ended up talking to them about it this was like a few years ago when i used to stream um but they came into my stream and i was like oh it's you you have the same username and i just asked them about it and it was like it was on one ip for like a super long time and then it was on two ips two ips yeah and it's like huh and they were like yeah i mean

my brother and i shared an account when we lived together and then i don't remember the exact details but it was something along the lines of like i went to university or whatever we both still use the account and i'm like cool i was half expecting it to be i was half expecting it to be my parents divorced oh well no okay the thing that we were seeing was it being used at the same time right okay sure So like... And my parents watch the land show. But yeah, like I don't care about that. I don't, I'm not encouraging people to do this, but like if it's within reason, I don't think we've ever really taken a stance on it. Yeah, the problem is when you post like your username

and log in on some forum and you're like, how about it, God? Like that's when it becomes an issue if you're sharing it or if you're using your account to download the material and then redistributing it then obviously there's issues there but as long as you're not like really abusing it like we don't really care um what if flow plane was 300 times the size i mean i'm sure we would see it the same way as we do now, to be completely honest. We would be not happy with people that were mass sharing it. But in the way that I think a lot of Netflix accounts were shared back in the day,

I think it would kind of be fine. I don't know. Yeah. We should do some merch messages. Yeah. Because those definitely help us survive. Yeah. We should do some merch messages. Yeah. Because those we definitely, those definitely help us survive. Yeah.

All right. Hit us, Dan. Okay, I've got one here from Maxim. Hey, Linus and Luke and behind the scenes people liking the spooky WAN show. Yeah, should we go spooky for the rest of merch messages? Okay, sure.

I'm down. Let's do it. I'll do it. No, no. You got it. You got your thing. You got your thing. Okay.

Wanted to ask Linus when the Secret Shopper Part 3 is coming. Oh, okay. I've down. Let's do it. I'll do it. No, no. You got it. You got your thing. You got your thing. Okay. Wanted to ask Linus when the Secret Shopper Part 3 is coming. Oh, okay. Been waiting for a while. So I wanted to interject on this one, and I actually wanted to answer this one, although he's probably going to say the same thing. The whole point is that we can't tell you, because the... And I wanted to make sure I said that before he potentially said something else. Okay, yeah, yeah.

Because the companies can't know it's coming. Yep. So... Has to be, boom, out of nowhere of nowhere yep you never expect the spanish inquisition yeah so sorry but no yeah there will be another one it might be happening now it might be happening in a couple years it might have happened already who knows we might have filmed it all already can't tell you anything i'm sorry yeah you Yeah. You mole! Who do you work for? Is it iBuyPower? Is it MainGear? Is it Dell?

Tell me! No, it's not Dell. Dell doesn't care. Alright, I got another one here from Tom. Hi guys! Do you think overclocking is slowly fading away now that CPUs and GPUs are already pushing the limits? Yes. Easy. Quick quick got another one here

from jake hi linus you seem to enjoy making some videos a lot more than others like the recent chat gpt pc build do you ever wish you could do more passion project videos and do you uh would you need a smaller channel slash team to be able to do so merry christmas all um i mean you're already seeing that you're already seeing that process playing out, right? Like that's where the smaller channels like ShortCircuit are coming from. ShortCircuit's a way for us to cover products that just wouldn't get enough eyeballs on them to justify uploading to LTT because it would just harm the channel. And you're going to see a lot more of it.

I think you can expect to see more niche channels as the lab team builds out their testing capabilities. And we have all this data and we need to publish it somehow right yeah in text is great but it doesn't make any money so obviously we're going to continue to do what we do best which is create video content so yeah you're going to see that a lot going forward now with all of that said, I think you might be getting a, I think sometimes people can get the wrong vibe. Just because I take on, for example, a more serious tone in a video doesn't mean I'm having

less fun in the creation process or that I don't think it's more important or that I don't think it's as important. Sometimes I think it's more important. But you also can't have the same amount of fun in everything you do. So like if we were to go through the last few videos, yeah, this doing everything the chatbot says was a blast because I'm super, super into this technology. And a lot of the time, you know, when we come up with a video concept, the whole reason that we're doing it is because it's something I want to talk about.

And then we just need kind of a vehicle for that. So building a computer was just an excuse to talk about chat GPT in a mainline video. This one I had a blast with. I mean, Jeff and I have never really gotten a chance to hang out outside of, you know, a few small encounters at like, you know, work events and stuff like that. And so I always enjoy Intel Extreme Tech Upgrade. And I think that comes through in the videos. People love Intel Extreme Tech Upgrade. This one was really stressful. It was a really fun idea, like doing tech support.

But some of the tools we ran into some challenges or rather the lines got flooded and handling a flooded support line is like never fun. So I think that did take a bit of the fun out of it there were elements of it that were super fun like dr ian cuttress calling into the show and just bloody guy rolling you with like a crazy question hey i got it though i'm feeling good about that it's pretty good um sponsored stuff is always challenging right like i said everything that i wanted to say, but that back and forth, I'm so glad that I have a sales team that kind of deals with all that for me now where the brand will come

and say, Oh, we don't like the way you worded it. And I'll say too bad. And then our sales team gets to kind of play, uh, play messenger in between. Uh, but this is a super cool monitor. I had fun with that. Uh, the fake merch, always a lot of fun for me. Working with the Hacksmith team, total blast. Like there's nothing in here, this monitor, I was not that interested in. And then I actually used it and all of a sudden I was like, whoa, this is super cool. Love. I mean, we don't really, we don't really make a lot of videos about stuff that I'm not interested in because I hand select pretty much every topic. Not all, but very many. Is there anything? Okay, I did not hand select for us to forget about Luke's portion of the part one of the art challenge.

This I hand selected. This I hand selected this i hand selected this i didn't hand select this was pitched to me uh tanner uh pitched this adding usbc to old consoles that was cool but when he pitched it initially i was like uh-huh and and then when he explained it i was like whoa that's so cool and so yeah i'm super into it you know what i think what you might see in a video like this is that i didn't get to play around with it firsthand as much if i'd gotten to really play with it i think you might have seen a bit more more animation on my side um sometimes it's the end of the day and i'm

kind of tired like i'm doing my best but no matter how enthusiastic i am about something i still do have to present uh my job is not just as simple as being someone who's into this stuff and talking about it. And I wish it was, cause it'd be a lot easier to hire people to help me with it. Uh, but Luke, Luke knows, I mean, it's not something people can just pick up overnight. Try it. Go make a video. It's really hard. Try to get views on YouTube. Yeah. It is a real job. job and i'm i'm glad that you almost never see that anymore you know well if you want to make money get a real job instead of being a youtuber it is a real job it's not easy yeah um the mood lighting is throwback to when the power

went out earlier on the show for those of you who are just joining us. What else you got for us, Dan? Okay, I got one here from Jose. Oh, it's in Mexico. Saludos de su de Mexico. I'm awful at this. Hope you have great holidays. I would like to know how the Dual Audio Project is going. Love your videos, but some friends

don't speak English, so the dub would help a lot to show this amazing channel. Still in progress. I haven't gotten an update from Ed on it in the last little while, but we've been just kind of trying to push through the product releases and limited people availability

due to weather, due to the time of year. That's been a back burner project compared to LTT videos must be shot because that's ultimately what pays the bills. So I wish I had an update for you, but I'm afraid that I don't for the moment.

Okay, I got another one here from Kevin. Can you test whether lifting a laptop by its palm rests causes... You answered this earlier, didn't you? Yes. I probably didn't deal with it properly. Cool idea. Hey guys, I'm waiting to get into IT soon, and with the technical difficulties experienced tonight, I was wondering how help

desk issues are solved at LMG. We did this one too. It's me. Did you do this one? Colin, shout out from Korea. In VR benchmarks, there are different experiences based on hardware setups, and even minor hardware changes have significant implications.

Given VR requires a human interaction, how would you try to objectively make a comparable VR benchmark? It's really challenging because the level of detail changes constantly and can change depending on on like you said a human interaction with the headset or with the in-game environment uh we do have an expert on staff now um i think he's actually in the chat uh jakey you in the chat other more different jake um who has a lot of experience in machine vision from mobile benchmarking, which has a lot of the same challenges.

And I think it's something that we're going to be able to solve in the long term, but it's going to take some time. Okay, I got another one here from Jay. Hope Luke's house gets fixed quickly. Me too. Do you think we'll ever start seeing multiple GPUs with the same power, but different RAM variants, like a 580 24 gig, 32 gig and a 590 64 gig and a 32 gig type of thing.

You already see this in particularly the commercial space. Like I think it was not very long ago that NVIDIA had different versions of their quadros that had different size frame buffers. We used to see it in the consumer space more, and I think you'll still see it in the lower end. But it's not as common on upper tier cards, because I think rather than create... Like the memory cost is not a huge amount compared to the overall bill of materials for a card over $250, $300, which is almost all of them now. So I don't think it is worthwhile for our company to create these different skews unless they think there's a very compelling competitive reason i think we've seen reactionary um reactionary responses to a lower end competitor

with less vram for example to keep costs under control. But very rarely do we see, not at least since the 900 series, I think, very rarely do, no, 10 series had a 3GB and a 6GB version of the 1060, if I recall correctly. Very rarely do we see NVIDIA go out of their way, and AMD for that matter, to have different VRAM versions of their cards lately. And yeah, my guess is just that they don't want to support more versions of the SKU. Why have one that is effectively obsolete before the other one if it doesn't actually save that much on the bill of materials? The 3080 had 10 and 12, but those were not quite exactly the same card if I recall correctly. And again, that different version kind of came along later. It

wasn't just, yeah, we've got an 8 gig and a 4 gig version of this card right out of the gate. Like, I think the last one I can remember that was like that was the RX 480, I think, just, or 470. One of them, I think, just had a 4 and an 8 gig version. Don't quote me on that, though. Okay, got another one here from Anonymous. Linus and Luke, what would it take for me to get an

ltd backpack signed by as many people on both teams as possible to ltx go to ltx yeah that's why i curated that question yeah that's your only chance that we literally don't even ship the products from this warehouse so how would i sign it yeah like i'm not in that i've been in that warehouse once yeah it's like actually not a thing but i pretty much the whole team is going to be there i'm assuming i think a lot of people are i think it's one of those things where you don't have to be there but you better not miss it kind of things yeah yeah kind of like the christmas party yeah that one here from nathan merry christmas lmg crew and families has a standoff tool or set of standoff bits ever been considered for the screwdriver?

I found myself needing some when replacing a motherboard recently. Yeah, it doesn't fit in the built-in bit holder. So once we have a separate bit holding mechanism, we will absolutely do some socketed bits. Totally makes sense. Matter of time. This one's from David. Hey guys, I've recently developed an addiction to buying 4K Blu-rays after throwing an LG OLED and SVF speakers in my

bedroom. Any favorite go-to movies for putting your home theater to the test? So far, mine's been Pacific Rim. Not the best writing, but man does it. I thought you might have a good answer for this. Oh, yeah. Not really. I just, um... There's some really cool scenes in that weird horror, uh, horror movie with

the, with the cult. Um, man, I can't remember what it's called. A lot of horror movies. Yeah, but they burn up, they burn a barn at the end. I don't know. Anyway. I'm not sure. Um, this looks, looks really great in HDR.

Yeah. 1917 is definitely a good one chat's uh chat's getting us some good ones i refuse to ever put the hobbit on any screen in my house good so that's cool oh no yeah midsummer that's the one uh blade runner 2049 not a great one just the way it's mastered um we found out kind of later after like it looks really great but the way it's mastered doesn't really let um better hdr displays stretch their legs from my understanding so we've we've stopped using it um yeah lala land is really beautiful yeah the hurricane obviously you know since i own so many copies of it it's a whole thing i

bought it on dvhs for a video recently wow yeah it's worth watching dvhs is a hell of a drug okay i got another one here what happened to the GPU shirt design? Will it ever come back? What happened to all of our shirt designs? Right now, we only have blank shirts. I didn't know that. Yeah. So our shirt printer, our local screen printer, got evicted from his space. And like, I don't know, at risk of talking publicly

about dealings that have not been acknowledged publicly, I'm just going to say it. Um, I don't understand, uh, the response that, um, our screen printer gave us when we basically said, Hey, we've got lab one sitting empty. Why don't you lease from us? hey, we've got lab one sitting empty. Why don't you lease from us? And like, we're some way over 50% of your business anyway.

So, you know, why don't we just, we don't want a disruption. We don't have another source. We don't want a disruption in your business. You don't want a disruption in your business. Obviously, you know, we're gonna help take care of you because we don't want a disruption in your business you don't want a disruption in your business obviously you know we're going to help take care of you because we don't want a disruption in your business we know it muddies the waters a little bit but it would be at just it would be at a market rate we're not looking to screw you over because we don't want any disruption to your business yeah um you know the way that i saw it it would be more beneficial we'd have been happy

to sign a short-term lease uh just to make sure that there's no interruption to his business. And basically the response was like, from my point of view, from like a business planning standpoint, I understand part of it. You don't want to have too many eggs in one basket. You know, you don't want to have that one client that's most of your sales and also your landlord. You know like i get it but on the other hand your options are us or not running nothing your business right now yeah you could do like a one-year lease and figure it out afterwards and like we want to help you out um we've we've never done anything like evil to you so what makes you think we're going to start now um so from from just like uh it seemed like a very emotional response rather than a um uh a carefully considered response so i don't know

uh we were looking for alternatives we found one that's actually run by one of the companies that we work with for overseas production but frankly and again no offense if you're watching this but the quality's been dog crap so we haven't gone forward with it so we need something that matches what we were using before in terms of the quality uh but we need we either need to find a new source for that or we need the person we've been working with to pull his or her head out of their butt and figure out how to like actually print some shirts instead of just like sitting and not printing shirts, which is obviously not good for their business. Yeah. Um, the badger hound says, bro, come on, this is hubris. That's a perfectly valid reason.

You're just mad. They said no. Well, they should be mad. They said no. They are currently printing zero shirts, not just for us, for anyone. That's not good. That's bad. And like I said, I fully understand their discomfort, which is why we were willing to offer a short-term lease. Nobody does that. Maybe in the market you're in, that's the thing. Here, you don't sign a one-year commercial lease

or anything like that. There's less than, what is it? Less than 0.1%, I think, commercial vacancy. Yeah. But it's one of those things where if we're working together, well, we're working together. Like you got to communicate. You got to say, look, here are my concerns and we can do what we can to address it. But if you're just going to kind of be irrational

and just say, no, no, no, I don't like it. I don't like it. I don't like it. Okay, whatever. Then I guess you're not printing shirts, which is pretty bad. Next up. I guess you're not printing shirts, which is pretty bad. Um, oh. Next up.

Good luck with that. Got another one here from Thomas. Hi Linus, any update on the summertime jacket? Hearing your thoughts on dealing with the hassle of sunscreen had hit home for me. Would love to know if this is still happening or if it's just an idea. Oh, still happening. Yeah, it should be out for next summer. Uh, the if it's just an idea oh still happening yeah it should be out for next summer uh the it's a great garment i absolutely love it i took it with me on my hawaii trip a little while ago and was just just pleased as punch pleased as punch

okay we got one here from seth i've been called petty. What do you mean petty? What? What are you talking about? I'm telling you facts. You cannot like facts. We tried to help offer a solution and it wasn't taken. And now it's really bad. For everyone involved. For everyone. Including the other person.

It's a lose-lose. Nobody won. What's petty about that? There's a uncomfortable or a lose-lose. Yeah.. What's petty about that? There's a uncomfortable or a lose-lose. Yeah, and the uncomfortable, it's like, yeah, but you just gotta, like, communicate. It's like any relationship. You can just shut down.

Like, okay. Well, then the relationship's over, right? Or you work with people. Those are really your only two options. Okay, this one's from Seth. LTT video idea. Right ways of power management inside a home involving tech. UPS surge protection, when to upgrade power to accommodate all the LTT talks about servers, new gen gaming PCs. Yeah, I mean, really, that's something that we're not going to be able to

cover in the kind of depth that we want to cover it until the psu tester is fully up and running and maybe we have like a second one because it's going to be an enormous volume of devices to push through it so in time in time okay i've got another one here from anonymous hey linus i'm absolutely loving the screwdriver i often find myself fidgeting with it instead of my usual fidget toys and was wondering if you ever thought of making a high quality fidgets as i find a lot of them to be lower quality yes we are already planning a fidget toy using the exact same ratchet from the screwdriver it's not going to be cheap because it's a super expensive part, but I'm not going to apologize for that

because it's going to be the best darn fidget ratchet on the market. That's all we hear all the time. Sorry, not sorry. Just buy another screwdriver. This one's from Jacob. Gift cards until I can get a backpack. What is y'all's take on development teams releasing games in alpha stages to sell copies for cash flow and spending 10 years without leaving alpha or just never

finishing the game sorry um are you saying tarkov i don't know what you're talking about yeah tarkov still in beta uh tarkov if i don't know if that's clue or sorry true if you google is tarkov still in beta it says it's enclosed beta i don't think it's enclosed i was able to buy a license for it fine just fine i don't think it's enclosed close to anyone who doesn't have a credit card and pays the money yeah yeah there you go um minecraft was another fairly notorious one minecraft was in beta for like an extremely long time um star citizen star citizen uh yeah i i mean it's a it's a thing and it's uh it's kind of frustrating but i can also understand the development team woes especially from actually no pretty much only from indie development studios if you're a indie development studio

you've got a few people on staff you have a certain um amount of time you can run for is that called the run rate i don't know what it's called it's called something no it would be your runway burn rate there we go you have a certain amount of time that you can operate for before you're out of money and if the game isn't done by then you can either offer it to people in its current state and say that you're going to keep working on it which i mean is true if you sell enough copies to keep your company going and suddenly is immediately not true if you don't yeah but then the flip side of that is if you don't sell any copies then maybe it just never gets made at all so if it's your only way but then it feels like in some cases it might

not have been the only way yeah it can be a little bit gross but i think it's just something we're gonna have to live with um i did we lose power again we had a we had a flash over flicker yeah oh you can hear it well we're almost done um but yeah i think i think sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do and i think sometimes it's abused and whoa look at this now would be a good time to insert ads there's a there's a money button it's a money button okay hold on let's do the math there's 9 900 viewers on YouTube. Okay. Hold on. Okay. So what is it? 30 seconds for an ad. So 0.5 minutes times 9,900 equals, okay. So hold on a second. What is this? Okay. This is 4,950 minutes. Okay. Divided by 60 equals 82 hours. Am I doing this right so far?

I think so, yeah. Divided by 24. So it's 3.4 days, which is about 1% of a year. So now hold on a second. If we assume an average lifespan of about 75 years, then that would be, let's say, so 1% of a year, 0.1% of 10 years, about, let's say, about 0.01% of a human lifetime. Okay. How much is that worth? If every time I press this button, I killed 0.01% of a human, would I keep pressing this button? Would I keep pressing this button?

Let's get into it. Let's get into it. Let's talk moral and ethical dilemmas. Oh my goodness. If you could kill 0.01% of a human every time you pressed a button. How much would that be worth to you? And you never knew any of them except your mom. Who watches the land show. Would you keep pressing the button, Luke?

Oh my goodness. That's a, that is a dark, but somewhat accurate way to look at that. Yeah. Yeah. As long as I'd carry the zero. Yeah. I think it's a little bit less than that. As the channel grew, man, I would look at the cumulative hours spent watching the content

and I would do that math. Like this is in the very early days and I'd go, holy crap, LTT has consumed one lifetime. Now it's 10 lifetimes. Now it's a hundred lifetimes. And I'm- X amount of lifetimes, like a week or a day or whatever.

It would make me think about the value of it. Are we working hard enough to make sure that, like, like this cost? I think I've talked a lot on the show before about how a central aspect of my personal morals and ethics is, is human cost, right? So when you, when you steal a pack of dental floss, you know, what is the human cost of that? You know, fairly, fairly negligible. Whereas when you, when you steal an amount that's like equivalent to a year's work for someone, uh, you know, I see that as like one 50th of murder. If you, if you get what I mean, like if they spent that time of their life doing something that was only to get their house or their car or whatever else it is.

It might even be worse than that, though. You're effectively stealing life from them. And so I would reflect on this number and go like, am I stealing life or am I enriching it? You know, I got to... Yeah. Woo! Yeah.

I don't know, just the kind of stuff that keeps me up at night, you know? Anywho. Moving on. I have another one for Michael. What's the best Christmas gift you guys have gotten from each other other than that was not work-related?

We don't give gifts to each other. The gift of not having to worry about it. Yeah. That's the best gift. It is a pretty good gift yeah hey luke guess what merry christmas i got you nothing merry christmas man me too i uh i was trying to think when i so i curated that one i was trying to think if there was something that we've ever like done but i think it's just always been hey bro i know you're busy yeah have a good one yep which is solid yeah that's a good way to go yeah it's good yeah we uh are are nope i'm not gonna say that um i'll say this there are more people where i feel some amount of obligation to give Christmas gifts to this year.

And it's a lot of people. Yeah. And like, I hate it. I don't, I don't mind it as much as, as you do, but at a certain point I'm like trying to tally in my head.

I'm like, have I completed my shopping for all these different people? And I'm like, this is a lot of people. And then trying to keep track of that. And you don't want to just like run to a mall and buy garbage the week before Christmas. So you try to think about it like throughout the year.

And it's like, man, there's a lot of things to, to like keep track of. Yeah. But yeah, my family has been talking about trying to like reduce and stuff. Cause we like something that we do is we try to reuse Christmas packing as much as possible.

Yeah. So like brown paper bags are used very often. Last year's tags that you put on things. For sure. We just put them in a box and you just re-tape it on. Like who cares? We try to do stuff like that to make it less of a waste. And we've all been communicating to each other for a while now to like don't try to really avoid buying people things that are likely going to end up being garbage.

Yeah. Right. But we're probably going to continue down that path to a certain degree. Yeah. We use a newspaper in my family. Cool. Yeah, that's a good one. We've run out of newspaper.

It's become a problem. The only thing newspaper is good for. So it makes sense that it's all getting used to wrap presents yep uh we used to use the comics pages specifically that's cool yeah that's actually nice yeah that's actually pretty sweet yeah i try and do the princess auto for dad and then like you know uh anyway this one's from zachary will you publish an external 3d model of the screwdriver publishing the model is common in industry and it would facilitate 3D printed LTT driver case I'm designing. P.S. Why no PH00, Phillips double zero, or PH triple zero bits in the Phillips set? All right, you got a couple questions here. Yes, we have considered publishing an external 3D model of the screwdriver.

We need to make sure that we have the proper authorization from the other parties involved in the design. So whatever we might feel about it, we, it was a collaborative product. So we need to make sure that everybody's on the same page. Yeah, we'd, we'd love to make your life easier for, for 3D printing the driver case you're designing. So stay, stay tuned. As for why no precision bits, it's because it's really not

the intended use case of the product. And we don't want to encourage people to over torque those kinds of products with a big old honking screwdriver that's really more for like computer work, utility work around the house, automotive work. That's why.

Stay tuned though. Our plan is to have a product where that type of a bit would be more appropriate. This one's from AJ. How did Luke become the CEO of Floatplane? Were you offered the job or did you apply slash ask for it?

I've heard you talk about coding development before. Did you do that before you started working at LTT? I find it very thematic that this came from a person named AJ as AJ was the first person that we hired for the project and is still luckily

instrumental to me, instrumental and is still working on the project. Even tonight. I am not. Yeah. He's bailing us out potentially right now actually, because as far as I know, he can't download this second one until we're done

and he's on East Coast time so we actually should close this up shout out AJ thanks AJ sorry thank you thank you this is not the first time and it will not be the last time that I call AJ out of nowhere and I'm like hey uh

I need you to save me he's in chat yeah hi i'm sorry thank you um yeah uh i'm not the ceo of floatplane um how is i how did i get the job well oh yes i'm ceo and probably cto too is that official or is that just no effective but it's i mean yeah he runs it um put it that way yeah i so when vessel went down vessel was a platform that we used to be on that did early access video whatever when vessel went down we started a thing on the forum which was just a sub part of the forum called rip vessel and i found a way to mess with the forum software that we had to force video to sort of maybe kind of go

through it. The idea was that people could download it and that sort of worked. And then we realized by accident that a bunch of browsers, do you remember this? A bunch of browsers would determine that they could just stream the video as a download. So it would just like play it. And we were like wait what is it that easy that's pretty cool this should be really easy to do and then uh spoiler alert it's really hard um and then pretty early in i was like whoa i have no idea what i'm doing uh and aj actually posted a big like i think it was a google doc that he shared i think that's how it was done but he posted a big thing on the forum being like uh yeah by the way here's a plan for

like probably a better more proper way of doing what you're trying to do um and it was fairly similar to what jake jake tyvee yeah and I had kind of come up with. But again, we weren't really prepared. And AJ's proposal for it was like way better. So I was like, hey, help me. And then we've just been sort of doing it ever since. There was never really, I don't think there was ever really like, I didn't apply for it. I don't think I asked for it. Oh, definitely not. It just, yeah, it just sort of happened. But it was a revenue source that we had absolutely no replacement for.

And at that time, we really needed it. One that we needed. And there was no other platform that was really doing what Vessel was doing. So we needed to port people somewhere. And we needed it now, which basically meant we needed to develop it internally. And I was the only person who had any chance and I barely had a chance. And then AJ bailed me out. And then we brought on Yuki not way too long after that. Both of those peeps are still on the team and still killing it. And we would be nowhere without them. And then we brought up other people

along the way and now we're here. I don't know. It just, it just, it sort of happened. It was very not formal. I'll say that much. Next up. All right. This is for Luke. Hey. Okay.

You pretty clearly play, have played D&D or other tabletop role-playing games. Could you talk about that? Sure. I'll, I'll try to make it relatively short. Played a bit of D&D in high school, played a bit of D&D in relatively short played a bit of dnd in high school played a bit of dnd in university played a bit of dnd after university never like super seriously always very socially um oh i oh hot take spicy coming out right at the end of the show no no it's sad luke oh um i i rekindled the fire for that with tyler okay sorry yeah um so it's a bit of a sore topic for me now because i miss tyler um but i eventually um while knowing

tyler and i actually got tyler kind of into it and he ended up running a campaign of this um without me because i couldn't play on the night that he wanted to into it and he ended up running a campaign of this without me because I couldn't play on the night that he wanted to run it and stuff but we used to talk about this stuff all the time but I ended up playing Edge of the Empire with my brother and a couple of my other friends and Edge of the Empire was really fantastic I like it a lot because of how the dice work because unlike with D&D where you have like your chance and your damage um in edge of the empire you have if i remember correctly it's it's like damage dice and then oh man it's been a long time since i played so i'm gonna say this wrong but it's it's like

opportunity basically and your dice have to roll against each other so you have you have pluses and minuses for each type so if you if you uh say you were uh this is edge of the empire so it's a lot of like scoundrels and whatnot so say you had like you're a hand solo type character you've got a pistol you're trying to shoot something that's down a hallway um and you're you're not going to do any damage your damage damage dice come up with zero or less than zero. But your advantage or disadvantage or whatever it was called, dice, came up with a large advantage. So now you have to come up with something that might be advantageous. And you think about the Star Wars universe and you're like, okay, well, the shot missed. It didn't hit the target that I wanted to hit.

But let's have it hit the control panel that's next to the door. So now the door closes on the person that's trying to run away from me. And you can do cool, like thematic storytelling things through your dice rolls. And I really thought that was very cool.

That added an element that I always felt was missing from D&D. And yeah, I used to nerd out about that with Tyler and then he ended up running a campaign and I, I believe they liked it. I think, uh, Alex Clark played in that campaign. I think, I don't fully remember. I'm not sure. Um, but yeah, it was a long time ago, but yeah.

Yeah. I've always played those games socially. I care a lot less for the game than I do for the people that I'm usually playing it with. And last one today is from Matthew. Hi, Linus and Luke. It's Matt from the Call Challenge video. What's the deal with the beef between you and dbrand? Are you longtime friends, or is it just something fun you do now? I hate those guys. Does my bleep button work?

F*** you, dbrand. Seems to work. Go f*** yourself, dbrand. I think my favorite ad spot I've ever done was for dbrand. Seems to work. Go f*** yourself, dbrand. I think my favorite ad spot I've ever done was for dbrand. Do you remember this? I had no authorization to do this. I don't watch ad spots for dbrand because f*** those guys. Fair enough.

We were at CES. I can't see them. We were at CES back in the day. And it was like only sponsored by dbrand or something. So every video had a dbrand sponsorship on it. I do remember that. And I was trying to make each one of them different. Yes, you did.

And I just ran out of ideas and eventually just said dbrand like 30 times and gave no other information or context. And they loved it. So I was like, sweet. Yeah. I think if that was a lot of other brands, they probably wouldn't have been too impressed. But I had a hunch they'd roll with it and they did, which was cool. But yeah, screw those guys.

If dbrand gets their way, I will be telling you guys about the car soon enough. Why can't I resist their money? Yes. This, okay. Okay. Okay. This is why I love those guys. Oh my God.

Oh my God. They want me to put the most ass possible skin what is it on my new car it's like it's like your own face a bunch of times no no no it's an actual product but it's the kind of thing that but over an enormous enormous vehicle might be a little much oh my goodness that actually might look super cool but it might look super cool to see on a car one time and not look super cool to be on your car permanently. Yeah. So, I'm... Yes! Oh my goodness. They're so annoying because they'll be like,

they'll be like, hey, no would be funny. You want to drink a bunch of energy drinks? Hey, want to do something totally stupid?

And I'm like, no, not really. And they're like, I'll pay more. Oh, so good. So good. So we'll see how it goes. It makes, in their defense, it makes stuff work because it's going to stand out. It's going to be interesting.

It's going to be punchy. People are going to be interested in it. But it's all stuff you're not going to want to do. So, yeah, you got to pay more. But, I interested in it but it's all stuff you're not gonna want to do uh so yeah you gotta pay more but i mean yeah gets it done all right see you later guys bye so