The WAN Show - We've Made Some Big Mistakes - WAN Show November 18, 2022

Starting point is 00:00:00 You know what's great about ambition? You can't see it. Some things look ambitious, but looks can be deceiving. For example, a runner could be training for a marathon, or they could be late for the bus. You never know. Ambition is on the inside. So that goal to beat your personal best? Keep chasing it. Drive your ambition mitsubishi motors what is up guys welcome to the wend show we're remote again luke we're remote again i'm so sorry what is going on we're gonna do in person this time we're gonna do in person to be the week back eventually i'm under the weather eventually But we're keeping the streak alive. It's been Linus and Luke hosting the WAN show for over two years running now.

Starting point is 00:00:50 Haven't missed a Friday. Because the truth is, we make fun of you guys for having nothing better to do on a Friday than watch WAN show. But like... The reality is, we don't have anything better to do either. We're all here. We're all here. We've got a lot of great topics for you guys today. At least half of them are about mistakes we've made.

Starting point is 00:01:13 I want to talk a little bit about what went on with our RTX 4080 coverage. Also, there's been some complaints about service from the LTT store. We've got some updates for you guys there. The other bad news you guys might not care about. It might actually be funny to you if Alex's reaction is anything to go by, but Luke and I have officially gone arc.

Starting point is 00:01:35 And you know what they say? Once you go arc, you never go back to arc again. Yeah, that's pretty good. Do you want to do a headline topic too i kind of took most of it uh yeah i mean that is legitimately most things uh pokemon scarlet and violet plagued by performance issues it's actually crazy i don't know if you've seen this but it's wild and i have some i have some takes um also the doom eternal soundtrack allegations are crazy yeah like like really wild and uh bethesda slash id soft's response to it is also wild the whole thing is wild we'll talk about that later yeah let's roll that intro drives why don't we jump right into our first topic of the day, the RTX 4080 launch. So the 4080 is one and a half times faster than the

Starting point is 00:02:49 3080 10 gig for a 71.42% price increase. So $700 to $1,200. Meanwhile, the 4090 is 1.6 to 1.7 times faster than the 3090, sometimes more for a 6.7 percent price increase 1500 to 1600 dollars um the issue with this is that the 4080 still sold out on day one though we don't know how many nvidia shipped and i think that where there's a bit of a disconnect between us and the community on the coverage of this card is that a lot of people feel that we didn't go after nvidia hard enough for the pricing of the rtx 4080 i think that's a valid criticism i think that we could have made more noise about it but having debriefiefed with the team after the fact, like, you know, obviously after we released the video,

Starting point is 00:03:49 after we saw the comments from people, there's a few things I definitely want to address. So first of all, the idea that we are paid Nvidia shills is just f***ing stupid. That's all I can really say about it. Not only has nvidia not sponsored us to do anything in ever since the uh the controversy with hardware unboxed um they they have not so much as said a word to me personally if you think for a second that with the way that

Starting point is 00:04:21 we call out nvidia when they do something wrong, that we are somehow in their back pocket. I have no idea what to tell you. I just, I can't anymore. That's it. That's my final word on the subject. I don't know what to tell you. You're confused. Okay? You hurt yourself in your confusion. So that's not what happened. What happened was a couple of things. A, we did call out the pricing, but it was towards the end of the video. And that's our bad, because we should know better. We know that by the end of the video,

Starting point is 00:04:58 even a really good, really engaging video, lots of great comments, good like dislike ratio you know every indicator we possibly have people are tweeting out i love that video um even a really good video is lucky to have 60 to 70 percent of the viewers who started watching it still watching by the kind of the conclusionary statement and part of it is that is just an attention span thing and part of it is that austin austin evans actually described it to me the best way that i think i've ever heard anyone describe it he said you want to make sure that no part of your video allows the viewer to smell blood in the water and by blood in the water he means that

Starting point is 00:05:42 it's wrapping up that the video is essentially over and there's no more pertinent information to convey. I get that reaction. If I'm like, oh, it's over now, I'll just leave. Yeah. Like, that totally makes sense to me. So if you were to say something like, in conclusion, the performance is great,

Starting point is 00:06:01 but the pricing is a real problem here. So many people are just going to bail. Right? As soon as you say, and in summary, in conclusion, with all of that out of the way, the bottom line is as soon as you say those words, we try to avoid them. Sometimes we do it anyway, though, because we really do have an important point to make that makes the most sense in the conclusion. Because from our point of view, our role when we're evaluating a piece of technology is to evaluate it as a piece of technology. This video will go up today, but it will still be there a year, two years, five years from now, when the RTX 4080 might be in, might be, you know, one of the cards in just like a bargain bin of used cards

Starting point is 00:06:43 at a local computer store, right? Like we don't know what's coming down the line, especially with regards to pricing. And it's one of the reasons that we don't talk about it as much. Somewhere that we made a bad call was we're just kind of fatigued on complaining, whining about pricing. The bottom line is that, don't tune out, don't tune out. This is an important point. The bottom line is that it doesn't make a difference and i've seen a lot of people kind of pushing back on that from me uh are pushing back on me about that no linus it does make a difference you have to use your position to to advocate for lower pricing um but the thing is guys i've been doing this a long time it doesn't work you can absolutely advocate for change and we do and we will an example of a time when there's an

Starting point is 00:07:32 actual like law with the product itself yeah one of the things that can often be quite effective yes one of the things someone brought up to me was that i i absolutely uh complained about the team viewer issue but the the issue there was that they were violating CanSpam. They were actually breaking the law by contacting me. That's a separate problem. I have leverage, okay? And so some people pointed out the seemingly contradictory stance

Starting point is 00:07:58 where we reviewed the card as the performance it was. We did comment on the pricing. We said it sucked. But we reviewed it performance it was. We did comment on the pricing. We said it sucked. But we reviewed it as it was. And then I was turning around making memes about overpriced 40 series cards. And they're like, well, that's contradictory. And I'm sitting here going, no, you got to look at what I said. What I said was, until gamers stop buying NVIDIA cards at inflated prices. There is nothing I can do. And just like with many other GPU launches, there was lineups outside the door

Starting point is 00:08:31 for people waiting to buy this insanely overpriced product and people bought it out and it sold out. Yep. And the counter argument to that, like I'm trying to play devil's advocate against myself here, right? Because I did read through a lot of your comments and I get it. This situation sucks. But the counter argument to that, guys, is that we spent the entirety of the pandemic silicon shortage complaining about pricing and people

Starting point is 00:08:58 kept buying stuff anyway. So people would say, well, Linus, if you complained about the pricing, if you said it was bad, people might not buy it buy it and like i wish i had that kind of power i clearly don't because we gaming industry would probably be in a significantly better space with a lot less loot boxes and pay-to-win mechanics and other various junk the final the final argument that people made was well what about the 4080 12 gig? Okay. Media and consumers made a lot of noise about that. And NVIDIA did reverse course to which I would say, guys, do you really think that was a W? What did they do? What did NVIDIA actually do? do renamed it yeah they renamed it that's not a win we didn't win it's a bit of a win it's it's a super it's a very small w it's like lower than a lowercase w it's like a it's a fine print w

Starting point is 00:09:59 that's not a win that's like that's like them putting it in our mouth instead of all over our face like no that's not a win now man it is still possible it is still possible that nvidia will alter the pricing of the 47d 12 gig or whatever the devil they're going to end up calling it. That's possible. But if that happens, that is not in response to people complaining about it. That is

Starting point is 00:10:34 in response to AMD's competitive pricing. The only thing, the only thing that matters is are the cards sitting on shelves. Actually, I lied. There was one more argument people made uh they were saying that i was defending the higher pricing because nvidia has a lot of 30 series that they need to move no no no you're halfway there you're halfway there

Starting point is 00:10:54 the higher pricing is because nvidia has a lot of 30 series they need to move at least allegedly but that that that i'm not that that has nothing to do with me nvidia is beholden to their shareholders they need to drive as much profit as possible in order to appease their shareholders they want their stock to go from doing this which is what it's been doing lately to doing this and the way to do that is to make more profit yeah they don't make more profit by making me happy by making me not complain that's just not how it works and i'm sorry i wish it was i do think all these arguments are legit i've had a big frustration for quite a while now for sure is buying stuff that it's like

Starting point is 00:11:37 where everyone knows the whole vote with your wallet thing but instead of buying instead of not buying things that they shouldn't people are like voting with their wallet in the in the wrong way it's like they walked into the wrong booth or something i don't know i don't get it everyone's like super mad about microtransactions and pay to win stuff but then people buy it to insane degrees like diablo immortal people were spending people were spending like as much money as they could in the game to be like when does it break the game it's like just just don't exactly just don't spend excessive money in the game but we still we still should have brought it up a little bit earlier and a little bit harder okay photon pixie photon pixie and floatplane chat i want to hear your argument for

Starting point is 00:12:19 this you say the naming was a huge part of the problem, so them changing the name is important. Why? How does that matter? No, I do agree, because it was misleading. Misleading in what way? FPS per dollar is all that matters. We're not getting any more FPS per dollar if they just call it something else. Yeah, but if you expect same performance

Starting point is 00:12:45 but different RAM capacity, memory capacity, that isn't what you're getting. And based on the naming scheme, that's what it... That aspect of changing the name, absolutely. And that is something that we would have called out. And that's why it's a little W. It's still a W. I mean, that's not a W.

Starting point is 00:13:00 That's a thing that should have never happened. Okay, so I want to clarify. When I was talking, when I was saying whether it's a w or not i meant in terms of what we are what we're talking about which is price to performance so you're right from a different point of view from a consumer confusion point of view yeah absolutely that card should have been renamed but we said that we did say that we never took up a view, absolutely that card should have been renamed. But we said that. We did say that. We never took up a contrary position.

Starting point is 00:13:30 And that card, the 4080-12 gig, never was released. So we never got a chance to review it and say, wow, this is awful and misleading. So all we have now is we have the 4080-16 gig, which we said, okay, here's what it is. It's not a great value and then we've got this 4080 12 gig 4070 card that is exactly the same value that it was before it just has a different name now there was some there was some i think very valid criticism of our 4080 coverage and that's that perhaps we emphasized too much the performance

Starting point is 00:14:07 of nvidia's top tier last generation cards which are also not a great value and that's very fair that's totally fair but let me at least provide a an alternate perspective on that. The customer for a 4090, the customer for a 4080 12 gig at $1,200, okay, is not the same customer for a 3060 Ti. So while you are absolutely going to care, you know, what card provides the best bang for the buck, that customer for that card doesn't care about it as much as you might probably think. That is one thing to consider. So when you're reviewing a product, you're not reviewing it in a vacuum. You're reviewing it in the context of what it's actually competing against. And a 4080 16 gig at $1,200 is not competing against a card that was 400 bucks in the last generation. Another criticism was that we're not talking about AMD enough. Okay, we're going to get a chance.

Starting point is 00:15:16 And I think that was an oversight on our part. We could have talked about AMD more, and that's going to happen. I'm personally super excited for the launch of the 7000 well okay this 7000 series from amd not the hd 7000 the rx 7000 series i'm very excited they're gonna have to release their stuff for you to be able to talk about it more yes so i don't know but yeah could it could have been said a little bit earlier, could have been said a little bit stronger, but yeah, I think all the other points still stand. So, the bottom line here is,

Starting point is 00:15:54 hey, don't tune out. The bottom line here is, you know what? I'm sorry. We want to make sure that we're covering products in the way that you guys want to see. But I hope you understand why we did things the way that they did. And I hope you also understand how it's not constructive

Starting point is 00:16:09 to launch into a conspiracy theory about how NVIDIA paid us to cover the card in a particular way because that's not helpful, right? It doesn't serve any positive purpose to just make assumptions that have no basis in reality and start talking about that instead of trying to figure out what was actually going on. Because if we want to understand each other, then we all got to be kind of speaking the same language. So if you guys are saying, look, here's why I'm upset, then I can go, okay, I can fix that. Whereas if you say, Linus, you need to stop taking money from NVIDIA to give them a positive review, I'm kind of going, well, I can't fix that because it didn't happen in the first place.

Starting point is 00:16:47 So we're not even able, we're not able to get aligned here right it's like walking into a car dealership and saying i'll give you ten dollars and they're just gonna they're not they're not even gonna engage in conversation you're not having a real discussion at that point right um you know what's something that i feel like we haven't talked about enough luke what the fact that amd's cards being priced at 900 to a thousand dollars is like not great either oh yeah no i i think we talked about that on wanshow when the when the pricing got leaked um about how like this is going to be seen as a win um but just like we've always said just being an underdog doesn't mean you're the good guy um and like amd is 100 taking advantage of the pricing hellscape that nvidia has set up to also increase theirs and move their top end pricing and and everything else along with it up quite a bit um 900 bucks on the top end is

Starting point is 00:17:46 is a lot it's a ton of money um and i hope amd can compete there because i want there to be competition even regardless of the pricing increases and it looks like amd's new just to go with the the nintendo naming just put new and like with like rgb lines all around it uh amd's new 7000 series will will do well um but it still doesn't mean that it's not priced really highly um is performance really good theoretically hopefully sure um i mean we're optimistic yeah yikes we against against my better judgment you know we gave amd every possible benefit of the doubt after the rx 7000 series announcement stream like this is this is interesting i just don't know what to do right holgar 69 in twitch chat goes you do not sound enthusiastic about rdna3 like actual

Starting point is 00:18:40 gamers are you are purposely avoiding and acting like it isn't coming. Did you watch the video? We took what AMD said at face value. We dug into their seemingly intentionally vague data, extracted as much useful information as we could, took it completely at face value, and then compared it against NVIDIA's best, and we were jacked about it what can i possibly do other than that how can you possibly come to that conclusion i don't know

Starting point is 00:19:14 what to do that's just a fanboy problem there's nothing you can do about that i don't know man i am excited limited there i'm always for competition, which doesn't mean that every new entrant is necessarily going to be a valid option. Why don't we get into our next topic here? Luke and I have officially, officially started the 30-day Intel Arc Challenge. That's right. It's happening.

Starting point is 00:19:44 Started late last night. I currently have two power supplies under my desk things are going you know what the funny thing about it is five years ago that wouldn't have even been a problem but luke and i both ran into physical installation issues with our cards because i couldn't find the modular cable bags for my power supplies for the two machines that i moved to intel arc and uh the a750 and a770 both use an eight and six pin power adapter and both of us in all the rigs we upgraded were using dual eight pin and not six plus two like dual eight pin connectors and i was not going to Like, dual 8-pin connectors. And I was not going to go out and get a Dremel

Starting point is 00:20:27 and freaking cut off two pins for a temporary ass GPU install. That was not going to happen. So, thankfully, I actually always carry an ATX depinning tool with me. It is literally always in my backpack.

Starting point is 00:20:44 So I was like, I have the solution. Now's the time. My emergency tech drawer had a dual Molex to six pin PCIe adapter. So I depinned that, took the sacrificial connector,

Starting point is 00:20:57 depinned my power supply, put all the pins in and I'm ready to go. I just got the extra two just hanging out in their eight pin for when I put it back together and hopefully don't destroy it. And then Luke. I strongly. I love Luke to go. I just got the extra two just hanging out in their eight pin for when I put it back together and hopefully don't destroy it. And then Luke. I strongly.

Starting point is 00:21:08 I love Luke's solution. The Dremel option. I very strongly considered it. I was literally staring at my cable and being like, I could do this. This would be fine. But then I was like, nah, because it's going to permanently scar it. I don't have the other cables for this. So, yeah, I went down to the garage found this like ancient

Starting point is 00:21:26 but awesome power supply and tech signature yeah definitely stolen from work oh yeah 100 actually though a long time ago um that's probably one of my like oldest stolen from work things that i have um dusted it off because that was actually a problem uh because it's been sitting in a garage for many years uh but yeah jumpered the 24 pin put it in the four put in the five um and now i have to turn my computer on like a plane because i have to turn the power supply on for the graphics card it's going and then i have to turn the computer on so i have like a starter motor and then i actually turn the computer on which i find genuinely entertaining so i think i'm just gonna leave it this way for like the whole month oh no

Starting point is 00:22:10 you're gonna kick it you're gonna kick it at some point 100 i have it so the the 24 pin with the bridging connector yeah it's just resting in the arc box right now um but i'm gonna like tape it in there um and then like manage the power supply back there but i think i think i'm actually gonna leave it because at some point when we did the last upgrade to this system the extra cables went missing in some part of that process right but i don't have a six pin for it i could go find it's just a c-sonic power yeah and it's cable mod like i could find yeah they'd send you one i won sure yeah like uh do i need them to send me a single cable so i can run it for like by the time it gets here like two weeks like i don't know probably not um so yeah as long as i can make it manageable so my girlfriend won't kill me um i'll probably just

Starting point is 00:23:05 just leave it as is do you need a picture of that oh it'll it'll be in the video you'll see oh it'll be in the video there's gonna be a lot of stuff in the video i am not gonna lie it was one disappointment after another for me like i i will accept i will accept my portion of the blame here, okay? Oh, man. I should have had my modular cables, all right? Yeah, those installation problems are honestly not on ARM. That is entirely on us. Those are not on Intel. I should have checked the product page

Starting point is 00:23:37 to see if they made any mention of VR before I put one in my VR gaming PC. They don't. This one's rough. Yeah. Those of you who watched the WAN show where we came up with the idea of the Intel Arc Challenge will remember that I got called out.

Starting point is 00:23:58 During the Linux challenge, I only switched my daily driver gaming PC over to Linux. I left the VR gaming rig that I have in my living room on Windows because VR on Linux is pretty much not a thing. And I use my VR rig for exercise, like I play Beat Saber for cardio. And don't laugh, it is good. It's actually really good exercise. It's actually really good exercise. And so this time around, I got specifically called out by many members of our community, and I think Luke as well, for doing that last time.

Starting point is 00:24:31 And they basically said, look, it's not the ARK challenge unless you go ARK all the way. So the living room PC and your gaming rig, they have to be ARK. And I go, sure. So after fighting with BIOS updates, getting resizable bar enabled,

Starting point is 00:24:46 switching my boot partition from MBR to GPT so that I could UEFI boot and finally, finally loading up SteamVR. Well, I don't want to spoil anything, but let's just say I sent a little DM over to one of my contacts at Intel and I went, if you guys want part two of this video to include but hey don't worry they fixed it you got 30 days to fix it such a spooky message

Starting point is 00:25:17 i gotta reach out from someone on that team being like is there anything else? Did you really? I'm not going to say who. They're a good person, though. But yeah, it's been interesting. So I think I actually might have a solution for your VR thing. Really? Yeah. So because the problem with the Linux challenge

Starting point is 00:25:39 was that you sort of, in a way, use your VR rig as a way to, you know not engage with the linux system pretty much at all until the last week uh i just didn't feel like gaming it was such a chore oh except except when i was playing beat saber yeah because like yeah just grab and go how about sure we don't i don't think completely cut it so cutting you off of vr for the month is honestly part of the arc challenge but okay thanks but it seems a little unreasonable so i think not being able to do it for like a week or two so you can feel the pain a little bit because that's part of it makes sense okay then after that i think you should be able to switch back but the amount of time that

Starting point is 00:26:26 you spend playing vr has to be mirrored with playing games on your arc system okay you know what you spend an hour playing beat saber you have to spend an hour on your arc system no i'm going full in i'm going full in i want intel to fix arc so that's it. I will not use VR during this 30 days unless Intel fixes it. It's just, man, I'm frustrated. Yeah, and then Luke, okay, so right. As a follow-up, Luke and I both did our installs yesterday and the stream, I think the stream archive is actually,

Starting point is 00:27:03 if it's not up on floatplane then we'll we'll get that fixed we'll we'll we'll get it published on floatplane uh but luke and i actually streamed for about an hour and a half trying to play games and we played i think five or six games and we had not gonna lie we had some challenges with all of them day one did not go well and i don't know how hopeful i am for how much it's going to improve over the next 30 days you guys are going to want to watch the videos though because it's there's a lot more detail i'm actually pretty hopeful i think it's going to improve i'm saying that seriously there's only one direction it can go luke that's part of the reason why i know i know but but no because a lot of what we

Starting point is 00:27:49 were doing had to do with streaming right we were trying to do remote play together uh yes you were trying to stream off of the card yes but like when i was playing i'm working on a review of the logitech g cloud so uh video encoding is actually as important as gaming performance for me right now yep yep uh so encoding was a problem it was a big problem consistent big problem um but like when i was streaming off of my cpu and we were playing halo it was fine um when when you were not encoding Untitled Goose game and we were playing with your arc and we were playing remote

Starting point is 00:28:30 play, it was fine. So for like super normie level gaming, no VR, no encoding, etc. etc. I think it's going to be fine. And I think that's probably going to be a pretty significant amount of the month. So I think the hill is up from here um but yeah it's an uphill battle that's for

Starting point is 00:28:50 sure i'm not sure if that's what you meant there but i like it um we've got a comment in float plane i actually missed who it was but basically asked what the ltd store deals of the week are guys if you want to leave a merch message, remember, don't leave super chats or Twitch bits or highlighted chats or whatever else. It's all about the merch messages. Over on LTT store, you can, in the checkout, see a little box that says merch messages. You can fill that out.

Starting point is 00:29:16 Luke, there's a stipulation. If you use, like, what is it? Auto-complete? Shop pay. If you use shop pay, it won't show up. So you got to watch out for that. That's not our fault. There's nothing we can do about that.

Starting point is 00:29:25 But anything other than ShopPay will work. However, we don't really have any deals to call out this week because this is sort of related to our next topic. You guys probably noticed we've had some challenges with respect to customer support response times. Again, we've gotten a huge influx of tickets as screwdriver shipments have started going out. And it's a combination of things. One is that the more orders you are generating, and you know,

Starting point is 00:29:52 we're coming into the holiday season, so there's a lot of orders coming in. The more customer support tickets you get, and it's just a numbers game. It's not necessarily because you're doing anything wrong. It just happens. Oh, I'm moving or I'm unexpectedly not going to be home. Can you delay my shipment or ship it here instead? Just little things like that, right? The other thing is the more shipments you're shipping out, the more customer support tickets you are going to get. You know, oh, hey, it got held by customs.

Starting point is 00:30:21 Can you help me? Just all those kinds of things. It's nobody's fault. It just happens. And the third thing is that sometimes you, when you have a really enthusiastic community that is posting on Reddit and posting on the forum when their stuff arrives,

Starting point is 00:30:37 like, I got my black shaft screwdriver. That generates a lot of, hey, someone else got it. Where's mine? So we are getting a lot of, hey, someone else got it. Where's mine? So we are getting a lot of tickets right now. We've also done a few things wrong, and I want to acknowledge that. So in order to optimize our sorting and shipping, the team has apparently been pre-printing labels too far out ahead.

Starting point is 00:31:01 So they're thinking that they could get things shipped quite quickly. They've been pre-printing some labels that have sat for, in some cases, a few days, like three or four days or even up to a week. And when someone gets a notification that the label's created, their assumption is it's moving. And that hasn't always been the case. So we've asked them to not, even if it does cost them some, I mean, right, it's a balancing act right on the one hand you want to optimize your your output you want to ship as many things as possible because that's ultimately the best way to not have people yelling at you but on the other hand you don't want to create the wrong expectations from people where they think something's shipped and it's not so that's

Starting point is 00:31:40 right you're just going to have to find the right balancing point. I have an idea for that, but we'll deal with it offline. The other issue is it's mid-November. So shipping volumes are going way up. The shipping industry has been notoriously understaffed this year already as it was. And so our partners, so we use Wismo, which is a consolidation service that allows us to make our shipping rates as competitive as they are. There have been some delays in breaking down pallets. And to be clear, I'm not blaming them. It just is what happens when volumes go up.

Starting point is 00:32:14 And then that combined with just generally shipping volumes being really high, I think has created a perfect storm of longer responses. So my answer to your question, do we have any deals on the store this week, is no. We do not have any deals on the store because what we want to do is give our freshly beefed up customer support team, which now has twice as many members, and we're hiring another 50% more.

Starting point is 00:32:37 So by the time we're done, we'll have triple the customer support team. Want to give them a little bit of time to catch up. We want to give the shipping team a little bit of time to catch up. Let's get give the shipping team a little bit of time to catch up. Let's get all of those labels that they've already printed going out the door. And if you guys want to send in a merch message,

Starting point is 00:32:50 what I'm going to recommend is go ahead and pick up a gift card or something like that. So you can get a merch message on a gift card and, uh, who knows with black Friday coming up, maybe you'll have an opportunity to use it. On something that's on sale. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:33:08 One thing that won't be on sale is the retro polar fleece that we just launched today. Did you see this thing? Looks awesome. Yeah. I'm totally down. It's delightfully 90s. It's a little too warm in here for me to wear it. But like, how fun is that design?

Starting point is 00:33:23 I absolutely love it. At the Brandon picture. I'm going gonna have to find i have seen him with his tiny baby but this picture was the thing that convinced me most that he's a dad i know right got the coffee cup like wow yeah these pictures are great it looks comfy it looks classic makes sense going for a very 90s inspired 90s inspired look I'm super

Starting point is 00:33:54 happy with how this one turned out yeah alright yeah yes it screams 90s thank you chat 100 all right so that's it for all the things that i have to talk about about like bad news uh why don't we talk about some good news uh oh is there any good news in here this week oh crap there's no good news um um um yep it's all bad news all right luke want to pick some bad news twitter stuff is good news it's good news okay uh i will i'll allow it defend yourself

Starting point is 00:34:35 defend your stance here i think entertainment's good what do you mean it's been so fun. You can't say it hasn't been fun. No one can say it hasn't been fun. It's been so entertaining. I think some of Twitter's staff could probably argue that this hasn't been fun. Okay. That's probably fair.

Starting point is 00:34:56 That's probably fair. I think they're going to be fine. I've taken this case before. I know it's a lot. A lot of companies are firing right now. I also know that a lot of companies are firing right now. I also know that a lot of companies are hiring right now. And I know that scouting is still active. So I know this doesn't solve the problem.

Starting point is 00:35:14 Losing your job freaking sucks, even if lots of people are offering you one. But I do hope that people don't get too discouraged by it and don't lose hope. And honestly, it doesn't look like they really are. But I do hope that people don't get too discouraged by it and don't lose hope. And honestly, it doesn't look like they really are. I don't think they seem to mind too much. They seem to be meaning right back to the meme king of Twitter. Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:35:37 This is a this is a strong. A lot of them are resigning more than anything. Yeah. Taking that evidence. If I remember correctly, it's three months or something. Pretty good. I'm i'm rather certain that skilled developers and other staff at twitter are going to be able to land fantastic jobs i mean three month window nobody's hiring but then again periods like people are

Starting point is 00:35:55 hiring tend to be periods of startup explosion because all of a sudden startups can afford talent again for a change like People that worked at this company that know the people that they liked working with and were good at their jobs, whatever it was. They're going to go start stuff up. And they're going to start stuff up. They've got some severance to do it with.

Starting point is 00:36:18 Yeah. It doesn't hurt. A lot of people at Twitter had really fantastic total compensation packages and are probably doing pretty well. You might want to move out of the Bay Area to make that money go a little bit further. But like, yeah, I think people are pretty well set up to have some time to find somewhere new to work or to start something up with some friends or do whatever they need. Also, the no one's hiring thing is not is not true. I mean, we're hiring. new to work or to start something up with some friends uh or or do whatever they need also the no one's hiring thing is not is not true um i mean we're hiring we're hiring other places are hiring

Starting point is 00:36:52 there's the the twitters of the world are not hiring right now holy your total comp might go down what have you seen how many positions we're hiring i was like memeing a little bit but we are hiring we're hiring okay we'll have to talk about that in a minute sorry luke go on um but yeah the like your total comp might go down you're gonna be okay um and you might be able to work on something less soul-sucking so maybe that'll be good um or if you're if you're just totally your total comp isn't going to go down and you'll just go somewhere and be awesome anyways i don't know but i think people are going to be okay um and i am i am enjoying the the entertainment often served up by now ex twitter employees because man they have been spicy yeah ready to go to town um it's been it's been really

Starting point is 00:37:48 entertaining i'm not surprised every every time that elon tweets out like total active users is higher than ever i'm like yeah this makes sense because i've honestly like never been on twitter more than i am right now because watching the world burn is just so great it's nice and warm it's cozy grab some popcorn have a good time um so do you want to walk us kind of through it this week in twitter oh wait i think i think i think twit is already taken there's there's a different tech show that calls themselves that okay we're gonna have to go with something else uh this last seven days in twitter tls dit i think doing a summary of this that isn't like half a day long is going to be uh ineffective we'll do what we can okay but yeah it's it's been wild with sunday blue yeah okay sunday twitter employees uh corrects elon on twitter which one was this because there was multiple this was

Starting point is 00:38:40 eric frone fronehofer. Forgive my pronunciation. This was the most talked about one, as far as I know. Yeah. He was corrected by this guy. And then someone's like, oh, this person should be fired. And then Elon responded with, they have been let go or whatever. Oh, that tweet is gone. Oh.

Starting point is 00:39:04 Shut up. that tweet is gone oh shut up i wonder if it was you know maybe legal exposure to tweet to fire people for tweeting like oh man be surprised do you know how there's got to be some form of problem with that i mean i can i can talk for ages about the the challenges around dismissing employees it is not as simple as like especially if you're not in an in an at will location so i don't know if our non-american friends might not be familiar with the term at will at will employment means that an employer can just terminate you from your job no notice nothing uh but that doesn't exist in most of the world as far as i can tell actually i shouldn't say most of the world because by population most of the world probably is an at will at will employment place but yeah certainly

Starting point is 00:39:55 not most of the of the western world um so like in canada for example you can't just fire someone you have to follow procedures you have to uh you have to pay severance you have to make sure that all the loose ends are tied up um and if they believe that they have been wrongfully dismissed like for example due to discrimination then they can absolutely turn around and litigate right and if there is anywhere that wrongful termination suits are going to happen, it is in the good old U.S. of California. OK, or the United California of America, whatever California's country is going to be called when it eventually secedes. One of my favorite things to point out now that you said that California has more people than all of Canada. Boom, let's keep going. i know right when i found that out i was like i know i know uh so that's that's hilarious like the amount of legal jeopardy that elon seems to be putting himself in throughout this entire process just i was just gonna say yeah

Starting point is 00:41:04 i've had just with firing employees no i know just literally everywhere in the world i know and i've had multiple people tell me no no this is a 4d chess game it's 4d chess he's tanking it for some reason there's like there's a reason and i'm sitting here going i don't know i don't know i don't think it was I don't think it was 4D chess. I think the reason why he committed to buying it was like ego issues. I don't think that was 4D chess. Man.

Starting point is 00:41:36 I do think he has a plan. I'm not necessarily saying it's like a good one or it's going to work or anything like that. But I think people going with the angle of like, he knows absolutely nothing. He's just a complete idiot and he has no plan. I don't think that's accurate. I think he has a plan. Apparently California is at will.

Starting point is 00:42:00 Whoa. I did not know that. How do these things work then? So I guess it's at will, but can still because absolutely we also don't even suits so we also don't even necessarily know where this person was from there's twitter employees all over the world that's true okay last van show was it last van show might have been i think so when i was in serbia um when i got on that plane after i hung up there was a twitter employee getting on the plane oh not going back to work i don't think i'll tell you about this they were wearing a twitter official backpack and i was like whoa and they're like yeah don't know if i'm

Starting point is 00:42:38 gonna have a job soon so going home oh man didn't have a long conversation but i thought it was pretty interesting um but yeah there's there's there's problems because there's people all over the world like there's there's huge termination issues with i remember correctly it was ireland um how he terminated a bunch of people there was like totally not okay i don't i don't remember this is not in our notes but okay california is at will but there are retaliation protections layoff notifications discrimination protections etc that need to be followed so i guess i misunderstood at will i understood yeah i understood at will to mean basically that you have no protection whatsoever um you you definitely it sounds like have at least some protection you

Starting point is 00:43:26 can't just be terminated for like having a particular color of skin then or whatever the case may be um all right yeah there's technically at will but there's always exceptions uh people are clarifying i mean that's the thing about america it's so because it's as far as i can tell basically like over 50 little tiny countries all with their own special rules but like then they're they're like combined somehow and it's not quite clear exactly how like let me tell you guys tax compliance in the u.s as a foreign entity is a nightmare as far as i can tell the way that other companies are doing it is they just aren't doing it like at at our scale, they just aren't bothering.

Starting point is 00:44:06 That's including American companies. You said as a foreign company, it's still a nightmare for local American companies. And a lot of them just don't do it until states or counties or whatever, get mad at them about it. And then they. Given the birds are talking to getting too into it

Starting point is 00:44:27 they enjoy the conversation but okay we're still on Sunday yeah Sunday we're still on Sunday Monday and Tuesday more Twitter shenanigans they delay blue until the end of the month the whole thing just goes away you can't do it anymore the whole

Starting point is 00:44:43 conversation from the previous week, just gone. Completely gone. Does someone have a live stream of a head of lettuce that they started the day that Elon took over Twitter? Is that happening? I'm going to find it. I'm going to find it.

Starting point is 00:44:59 It happened with whoever the prime minister of the UK was, and then the lettuce won, which was pretty epic. But yeah, so blue's gone. The whole thing everyone was talking about is over i suspect that's probably because oh you know they cost multiple companies billions of dollars um it's a minor issue uh there's there's a bunch of slack channel problems apparently a bunch of the engineers that came over from some of elon's other companies are used to using teams and i guess in teams newly created channels are private by default this whole thing someone was writing this and i was like this is weird because it's very obvious when you're creating slack

Starting point is 00:45:36 channels if they're public or not right um yeah apparently they use teams they're private by default so they created slack channels and they were public and other people joined them and were able to see what they were talking about and they were talking trash about like a bunch of employees talking about who they were going to fire and stuff like that oh that was apparently just like a huge nightmare um they privatized the channels afterwards they did all this stuff but like people had the transcripts of everything that was in there and it was like yeah and i only learned about the site blind recently i didn't have any reason to do you know you don't know blind okay it's actually a super cool concept it's a social network uh yeah it's a social network that's for professionals it's kind of like linkedin except they validate that

Starting point is 00:46:19 you actually work wherever you say that you work and only other people who work there can contact you and the whole thing's anonymous so it's an opportunity for people to compare salaries or talk about workplace discrimination or um you know exchange information like what you're talking about so screenshots like this are going to be spreading like absolute wildfire in blind, completely behind the scenes, inaccessible to anyone who doesn't actually work at Twitter. And they do they do periodic validation. So they'll send an email to your work email. Hey, do you still actually work there? And then they'll cut you off of it if you don't actually work there.

Starting point is 00:47:00 So they discourage you from sharing any identifying information it's a super cool concept and so as far as i can tell blind has been experiencing an absolute surge in popularity and and just has this enormous profile uh compared to what it had before because of how public and how explosive this meltdown has been. Really funny that Twitter on blind is rated more highly currently than Amazon and Intel. Well, there's still time for that. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:47:36 I'm sure that's deteriorating. Sorry. Yeah. So Twitter blue goes down. Elon tells managers to scrape Slack channels for criticism. And then I have heard that after that, people who criticized him were fired. One of the problems with a lot of this stuff.

Starting point is 00:47:58 It's all hearsay. A lot of it, including this one, is there's hearsay all over the place. And what I have found with a ton of this, and I want to add allegedlys to before I started talking, add allegedlys to after, and add them all the way through. Because what I have found many, many, many times with stories coming out of Twitter

Starting point is 00:48:16 is that things are partially true. Things are only partially true. Like a lot of the remote work stuff. A lot of the remote work stuff. A lot of the remote work stuff. That sort of happened. He did call people back into work, but it wasn't quite exactly the way people were describing it.

Starting point is 00:48:35 It wasn't everyone, no matter what, always blah, blah, blah. We especially heard this about, I think it was Dublin. Yeah. Because people figured out that there literally was not enough currently vacant housing in Dublin to fill the amount of people that he called in.

Starting point is 00:48:49 And it was clarified like that's not what happened. It was like if you have the ability to, you need to. But if you don't have the ability to, then it's not expected. Like that's totally different than you have to no matter what. So it's like, I don't know. Things are still happening. They're very very drastic but they're not potentially sometimes they are exactly as drastic as they seem right he publicly fired someone on twitter that happened we saw that happen yeah we have facts for that right uh but not everything is quite that cut and dry um but yeah theoretically

Starting point is 00:49:20 allegedly uh he told managers to scrape slack channels for criticism and to fire those people um elon may actually manage to improve twitter in one way at least end to end encryption okay i didn't actually know this um end to end encryption or yeah for dms maybe for dms yeah apparently they're working on that. So that's cool. That's good. Hey, we got to talk about the good and the bad. And this is a good source. Jane is a good source, I will say. I didn't know that was from Jane.

Starting point is 00:49:54 That's cool. My favorite, my favorite of the week, though, was the Thursday ultimatum. Twitter 2.0. Asking Twitter staff to work long hours at high intensity and be, and I quote, extremely hardcore or leave. Apparently this ultimatum was refused by hundreds of the remaining 2,900 employees on Thursday. If I remember correctly, the original number was 72.

Starting point is 00:50:25 7,200. That's a lot less. That's a lot less. Many employees told reporters that with so many people leaving, they expect the platform to, quote, start breaking soon, end quote, leading to yet another round of everyone on Twitter saying they're leaving Twitter and then staying. That sounds about accurate. We also had a lot of stuff.

Starting point is 00:50:44 We had people saying like, oh, Twitter's going to break in two days when Elon first bought it and stuff like that. It's going to take a little bit longer because the infrastructure systems are probably built decently well. Who knows? Some improperly managed system is going to fill a hard drive and things are going to break or something random is going to happen and it's not going to get managed properly.

Starting point is 00:51:13 Or it might just not i don't know i i i've said for a long time well before we thought elon might be buying twitter that they have far too many people on staff um yep and that things can be true he can be firing too many people and or the wrong people too many people on staff and he could be firing too many people and or the wrong people too many people on staff and he could be firing the wrong people absolutely that could totally be a problem uh the way he's lowering his staff counts uh are far from perfect and i'm not defending those if i was a superstar developer luke i would be out of there like there is absolutely no way there's there's two paths right there's either you're gone or you take this opportunity

Starting point is 00:51:47 to vie for just extreme position and extreme total compensation. You do one of the two. Because you either need your total compensation to double in your position to just become something wild that's going to be really insane on your resume, or you

Starting point is 00:52:03 need to get out of there and get somewhere else um if you if you think that it can make it taking this opportunity to vie for position could be good that's quite the bet and you might kind of not look that bright uh if you ride it all the way through to the end so it's a that's genuinely quite the bet. Um, but yeah, I don't know. I don't know. What I know is it's time to tell you about our sponsors for the WEN show. We do have more Twitter stuff to go over.

Starting point is 00:52:35 Should we finish that really quick? Eh, I mean, okay. He locked everyone out of the office by completely getting rid of their whole badge system. Yeah. Um,

Starting point is 00:52:44 that was pretty good. Everyone thought the website was going to disappear last night. It didn't. It's going to be more fun. I'm excited. Yeah. All right. The show is brought to you by.

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Starting point is 00:54:44 Now, I actually need to bail pretty quickly today because I am heading off to a pretty fun little event that I'm going to. Yeah, I think I have to go very, very shortly. But if there's maybe one more topic that we want to talk about. Man, there's so much. We never talked about the FTX debacle.

Starting point is 00:55:03 We haven't talked about that on WAN Show. How's that even possible? That's nuts. We We never talked about the FTX debacle. Like, we haven't talked about that on WAN Show. How's that even possible? That's nuts. We didn't talk about Pokemon, which I actually have completely regardless of it being Pokemon, strong opinions on. We didn't talk about Doom Eternal soundtrack allegations. We didn't talk about that

Starting point is 00:55:18 we're hiring, like, 15 positions. You know, I'm gonna run through that really quick. You can check out LinusMediaGroup.com For more details But for Linus Media Group We're hiring a social media manager A video editor slash camera operator

Starting point is 00:55:31 A production assistant A writer slash video producer An affiliate and sales coordinator A bookkeeper And a writer slash video producer Focused on Apple So that would be for Mac address For Creator Warehouse We are hiring a customer service supervisor and a writer slash video producer focused on Apple. So that would be for Mac address.

Starting point is 00:55:47 For Creator Warehouse, we are hiring a customer service supervisor, a customer service representative. This is a three month contract, this one. Everything else is full time, permanent position. An electronics engineer slash product designer, a fit technician. And then for Flowplane, we're hiring a junior backend developer.

Starting point is 00:56:00 These are paused. Oh, they're paused. Oh, okay. The Flowplane ones are paused. We're still collecting resumes and they're going to resume sometime in the new year okay they're paused right now because we just onboarded like seven people okay cool uh what about the float we want to get the team good and then we're gonna what about the float plane slash labs one uh those are the same thing okay same thing okay i won't i won't say any of

Starting point is 00:56:26 that then okay cool oh no someone's filling out riley is filling out the ftx debacle in real time oh is is he here does riley want to just come join the show with you maybe because i think he actually prepped almost all of the topics this week. He says, if you ignore the rest, just open this one. Oh, no. People who are still holding digital assets on centralized exchanges right now. Why?

Starting point is 00:56:56 Even if Bitcoin moons to a million dollars or something, it means nothing if the exchange you're using goes belly up and your funds get hacked overnight. That happened to me. That happened to me. That happened to me many years ago. I was on Quadriga CX. Yeah, this wasn't as big of a thing yet, but what'd you lose? This was a long time ago.

Starting point is 00:57:15 Yeah, and Quadriga CX, the founder, mysteriously died in an Indian town famous for faking people's deaths. That's weird. Wonder why he was there. And the entire exchange's funds just vanished. And that was my like, you know what? I'm done. I'm out. I had purchased hardware wallets.

Starting point is 00:57:36 I was even going the right safe way. They had very, very recently shown up and I hadn't moved it over yet. And then it was just gone. And that was my exit. I was done with crypto at that point i had a bunch of people in the crypto space when they heard about that be like yeah you're just dumb and i was like all right sounds good i'm out sorry fair enough sorry i will leave yeah yeah. Yeah. Uh, hold on.

Starting point is 00:58:05 Let me just see if there's a doom and turmoil. Oh man. There's so, oh man, there's so much, you know what? I think I just have to go. I'm going to like this exhibition and,

Starting point is 00:58:14 uh, I'll wait until. Do you want me to try to tackle some of these topics? Or do you want me to do merge messages? Or do you want. Oh, that's what I'll do. I'll do a couple of merge messages now before I go.

Starting point is 00:58:23 And then I think I'm, I'm trying to get in touch with Riley. Uh, Dan uh dan actually do you want to see if you can get riley down here maybe uh he and luke can close out the show i shot him a message but i can go grab him a call yeah give him a call or i'll just read through some of the curated merch messages michelle o says hey luke a few weeks ago on wan show you said you were into scuba diving do you use dive computer if so which one there's no way he uses a dive computer dive computers cost money i uh so i actually tend to use dive computers but i don't own one um when i go diving i usually ask the shop if i can borrow one and usually they're down which is nice um it's smart the uh i i was actually i was diving extremely recently i

Starting point is 00:59:08 got two certifications i got my advanced and i got my rec diver certification um and the guy that i did it with would not stop talking about how i needed to buy a diving computer um i do not want to but we'll see it depends how much you. Like if you only dive when you vacation and you always have a certified dive master with you, who's like knows the location really well. What, what are you using your dive computer for? If you're lost, you surface like it's that simple. Paddy education would tell you that you should have them anyways and stuff. Um, but yeah, if I'm going right now, my, my pattern covid did cause a lot of this but my pattern

Starting point is 00:59:46 is like once every two to three years so at that rate it's like even if they made me pay for it which no one has so far um i can usually just borrow one from the shop that i'm diving with yeah and i'm never just going by myself at home so yeah diving in the lower mainland sucks it's cold and you can't really see anything we brought someone on i won't say exactly where they're from but they are they are local as in they are from this province um and they are super super into diving they're on the labs web dev team um i won't say their name either just because they're very new um but they're like really really into diving um and they they have some cool spots that are local ish but i don't think it's lower mainland we're not i don't think he's diving in the frieza river or anything got a good question from jonas no i don't think this is a dumb question jonas with graphics cards

Starting point is 01:00:41 getting bigger and physically taking up two PCIe slots, could there be any advantage to building a graphics card with two PCIe connections to the motherboard? Greetings from Germany. A couple of reasons that you wouldn't want to do that is one, you would, yes, you would double the bandwidth to the GPU, but you would also dramatically increase the complexity of the PCI Express interface that you have to build into the GPU. That's why they keep doubling the bandwidth of PCIe. That's why each generation, we're trying to push the signals faster rather than just going wider. Because every pin on the slot, you got to think about it this way. Every signal pin on the slot has to have

Starting point is 01:01:25 a corresponding signal pin somewhere on whatever processor it will ultimately connect to, right? So if you had 32 lanes of PCIe, and to be clear, longer slots actually do exist. PCIe 16 is not the long, is not the widest PCIe connection that you can get. I guess, yeah, I don't know if there's a spec limit. Anyway, the point is 16 is not the maximum. But for every one of those connections, like it has to terminate somewhere, right? Like these are essentially wires that have to go somewhere.

Starting point is 01:01:58 So you're adding a lot of, you're adding a lot of just even physical complexity to whatever die is on the other side so if you had a pcie by 32 connection like man would that ever be a complex chip wouldn't it be better to just go gen 5 if you needed to double your bandwidth so that's what we've done we've gone from gen 1 2 3 4 to 5 which has resulted in a two four eight sixty thirty two x increase in overall bandwidth to the slot which has been fine um okay i'll do just a couple more and then i guess uh yvonne and i need to head out yes she hasn't messaged me yet um anonymous s can we get a banana for scale with

Starting point is 01:02:43 catnip um i don't think we have plans to do that anytime soon but you could always stuff catnip inside your banana for scale and your cat would probably uh love that okay i think riley's going to take over for me at this point riley you haven't awesome i can't stay forever but yeah no that's fine you haven't been on when show set in i think a minute yeah um so can i just can I just orient you real quick here? Oh, yeah. They're just movies. Yeah, but I haven't shown him how merch messages work

Starting point is 01:03:12 and stuff like that. How do you go to warp speed? To warp speed. Well, no, no. It's ludicrous speed, then plaid, I think, is how everything works. I didn't know we had upgraded to that. Okay, so I've got the doc over here.

Starting point is 01:03:24 Got the chats that matter over here. Don't worry about YouTube chat. Nobody looks at that. All about that. Okay, so I've got the doc over here. Got the chats that matter over here. Don't worry about YouTube chat. Nobody looks at that. This tab is the merch messages. So if Dan has one that's not, like, that's a potential, then you can check it and see if you guys want to do it. And I guess that's pretty much it. Alright. See you later.

Starting point is 01:03:40 See you later. Good luck at your event, Linus. Yeah, thank you. It's going to be fun. It better be. Or else, what am I here for? Hi, Luke. Wait, why can't I hear Luke?

Starting point is 01:04:00 Am I not supposed to hear Luke? I'm just supposed to talk over him the whole time. I don't think he's talking this is the right he was talking i saw his lips moving luke stop it your lips are moving is this the wrong headset no you were it's warm it's warm i feel linus's sweat on my head is he trolling am i trolling i'm not trolling luke uh i think luke's trolling luke stop it luke stop it you're so mean to us isn't your mic is muted we're a professional company that does shows

Starting point is 01:04:26 unmute your microphone just like this one do you see the mute button oh yeah as soon as he got muted in ping what yeah yeah

Starting point is 01:04:36 he's muted yeah Luke you are muted for real he is muted no no you are they're saying you're muted I can see the icon in the chat app

Starting point is 01:04:43 why has this gone wrong? As soon as I heard... Riley! As soon as I heard Linus say... Oh. Riley, uh... Riley could come and be on the WAN show. I'm like, you don't want that.

Starting point is 01:04:55 You do not want this. Something will break. Oh, no. You don't want me reviewing graphics cards, and you don't want me stepping in. I'm trying to see if my... Testing. Oh, there he is.

Starting point is 01:05:10 Hi, Luke. He figured it out. I think a magical little pixie in the internet just came and fixed that for us. So you run a video platform? I did not mute myself, to be clear. There was something wrong wrong i was trying to talk to you guys in the chat and as per usual with wansha whatever there's a technical issue

Starting point is 01:05:32 where we can't hear each other no one tries to read anything that's typed anywhere which caused some pretty serious problems that's why i didn't come down right away because you have bars and messages you know which is very strange. Oh. Cinematic mode. Yeah. No, I noticed that. So something happened. Around the time of the Linus and Riley change, the bars came in and other problems came in.

Starting point is 01:05:58 I think, yeah, I don't know. Were you the one that spam muted me, by the way? Spam me? Did I spam mute you? Dan. Dan. What did you do dan i tried to mute you and then unmute you and it just said mute twice so that that made it so that i was muted so i was able to unmute myself yeah i figured i would try something like that so it's dan's it's your dan

Starting point is 01:06:20 it's dan's fault no i don't i don't know what happened either way it's working now welcome to the show riley hey thanks why did um why did he want me to come i mean i know i was i was editing the doc in real time yeah we got more stuff to talk about and uh it seems like you had unresolved by myself it seems like you had unresolved feelings about twitter but we don't have to go back to that we can go back to that honestly i wrote for the discussion question for that one i have nothing more to say because after covering it for uh two weeks or more i mean before that before he actually took control two weeks ago i was tired of covering it and then the last two weeks have just been it's like it's like yeah go ahead i'm honestly not that interested in talking about it for whatever reason people just need to like see it for themselves and then that's it because

Starting point is 01:07:10 there's too much going like if you actually want coverage of this whole thing it's going to take you a whole day because too much is going on well and by the hour there's crazy things happening yeah and it's funny because he's tweeting at two in the morning like how he's he's tweeting two in the morning and instead of being like anything serious about the fact that like the platform that you bought for 44 billion dollars is in chaos he's just posting memes like yeah like oh um yeah so like it it's especially hard because it's about this platform that is all about immediate reactions it's about like short yes quick takes and so people feel the need to uh post news immediately like there's one um reporter i'm i'm pretty sure i linked her in here or somewhere but she works for the platformer and she's been doing a lot of the like on

Starting point is 01:08:06 the ground reporting, like talking to Twitter employees and stuff. And even she tweeted something. I feel bad if I don't find her account now, but I'm not in my accounts here. So I don't, I don't know how to find it. Um,

Starting point is 01:08:17 she, even she tweeted this morning, like, Oh, just seeing this email that says this. And then she tweeted a couple more times about it. And she's like, actually,

Starting point is 01:08:24 I'm not sure whether this is real. Hold on i was like okay that's another huge problem yeah like you were saying earlier stuff going around but there's also genuine genuine just like crazy things happening and how you differentiate between fabricated things and crazy things it's just like um zoe zoe schiffer the chat is helping me out it's zoe schiffer yeah she works for platformer a lot of good reporting on it but you know no one no one's perfect but yeah i don't i didn't really have anything else to say about it at this point it's just kind of like we'll see what happens uh maybe twitter will die even if twitter dies though it'll come back i feel like it i feel like oh yeah whatever happens twitter as an entity it may be something completely different to what twitter is now but twitter itself will be around it's a big brand someone's gonna do something with it you know that being

Starting point is 01:09:18 said like myspace went down i guess something someone did do something with it right it's being used right now. That's true. But I feel like, okay, I've heard you talk, okay, let's not talk a long time about Twitter, but I've heard you talk on WAN Show a number of times about how you hate Twitter. Yeah. And every time you said that, I'm like, it kind of hurts because I love Twitter

Starting point is 01:09:38 because it's different from the other platforms. You don't have to post an image like instagram uh it it's not made up of all these discrete like groups and and like a million different components like facebook it's just if you want to just post a couple of words you can just do it and it's fine you know i don't want to do that well if you don't want to do that's fine but i like it because it's like especially for you know people who used to like tell people to not use twitter i used to be like you should get off twitter you should go outside and touch grass i don't really do that anymore because i had some feedback similar to kind of what you're saying and i'm like you know

Starting point is 01:10:17 what that has value i just don't personally see a lot of value in it but that doesn't mean that the value isn't there right um i don't i don't like tell other people not to use it anymore uh but i think and i think this is actually this whole thing going on right now is a perfect example of how good it is at this i think it's all power isn't spreading negativity um it's really good at amplifying negative messages that's like the main thing that it's good at um and i've heard you say that yeah the twitter being saved by the 2016 election totally makes sense because we've never had as much negativity around an election as we did around that one for america whatever i feel like i agree with you but i would also say that it probably excels as well at amplifying extremely positive and heartwarming stuff.

Starting point is 01:11:07 It's like it won't. And I think that this is kind of any social media platform. Extreme sentiments, whether they're negative or positive, will always do better. Do well. If you put something out there and be like, I'm watching this show right now. It's pretty good. Like, no one cares. As I've discovered trying to

Starting point is 01:11:26 tweet about andor which is an amazing show but it's still a star wars disney show let's not get into that but i'm just saying that i'm gonna watch it because of you dude i haven't talked to you about this i am only going to watch it because of you oh my gosh i'm so frustrated why more people aren't well i know i understand why they're not watching it because the you oh my gosh i'm so frustrated why more people aren't well i know i understand why they're not watching it because the other shows were complete i mean i don't want to say they're complete garbage but they made me angry they're not good and and or is like somebody made a good show for like hbo light and it's it happens to be a star wars show and it's faithful to lore and is actually made by people who know how to make a tv show it's just watch and or i'm

Starting point is 01:12:13 boggling for a star wars fan um so yeah i'll check it out as someone who absolutely hates what disney has done with them i was surprised to like it but it. Um, because it's good Twitter. I, you know, it'll, it'll go away. Uh, uh, I just hope that there is another, if Twitter dies or if, if Twitter is unable to be revived in the way that it, in its current form, I wish that there, I hope that another social media platform will arise with the same kind of like, uh, care for posting like on instagram people try too hard facebook i don't even know what's going on there it's taken over by moms tiktok is like adhd too much stimulation i can't handle it twitter is like more chill and it's just like we're posting jokes because we thought of a funny joke and you just write it down twitter is very

Starting point is 01:13:04 much the social media platform that you use while you're getting coffee. Like it's, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Someone's like, dude,

Starting point is 01:13:11 they're just movies with Luke. We did, we did hackers. Good. Go watch it. It's actually really fun. I really, I wish I cared more about movies and TV shows.

Starting point is 01:13:20 I should go on it more, but I, I don't. I found, I figured out a TV show that I watch, actually. Oh, yeah. But I do watch very infrequently. But it's not going to be interesting

Starting point is 01:13:31 to talk about on the show. Well, just say what it is. Pass Master. What is that? It's like a British game show. I've heard the name, I just completely forget what the subject matter is. Oh, is it like a comedy thing? once in a while yeah they usually have comedians on yeah

Starting point is 01:13:50 and and then they have them do various tasks and then they're like graded on how well they do the tasks and because it's comedians and for the most part it seems like they are trying to make an entertaining thing to watch instead of necessarily compete against each other they're still trying to like win right but you can tell that they're going for the entertainment value it's really funny it's sort of like who's lining ways that they come up with being able to uh play and stuff but yeah i enjoy taskmaster i will usually like binge watch a little bit and then forget about it for like a year or more and then binge watch a little bit again uh but they have full episodes on youtube oh wow nice yeah and it's not country locked so it's just like oh i feel like i've definitely seen clips of this show it's kind of like whose line is it anyway but less like we're doing a

Starting point is 01:14:35 skit with a bunch of people and more like one person has to kind of go off for a while and then other people rate them no isn't it like kind of like improv comedy like you give a prompt and then they kind of or is it like they're actually doing physical tasks i thought it was like physical tasks oh i'm thinking of the show i thought i feel like there's other shows where someone like gives like a prompt and then you have to like come up with something no like they'll film all of the task challenges before they film the show and then the show is actually them watching the task oh okay and the task master like giving them this is a really weird wancho well you brought me on i mean what do you expect no this is fair this is fair but we should uh we should jump into the

Starting point is 01:15:16 ftx thing i feel like you have probably tracked this significantly well i have sort of so like what i wanted to say about the ftx thing is that you know since before you go into it just for people that have no idea what they even are oh yeah oh ftx so they uh ftx is a cryptocurrency exchange owned by uh or started by a guy named sam bankman freed fried i don't know how to say his name freed and uh he was was viewed as sort of a prodigy, became a huge billionaire, very rich, loves League of Legends, so that should tell you something

Starting point is 01:15:55 about where this is going. Degenerate, if you play League of Legends. Everything else is fine. You can't call anything else degenerate nowadays, but League of Legends, that's the thing. You can't call anything else degenerate nowadays, but League of Legends, that's the thing. You can say it's degenerate. It's fine. Oh, okay.

Starting point is 01:16:10 Yeah, in case you didn't know. What I do know is that he's really bad at League of Legends. This was honestly, I think, the most disappointing part of this whole story to me because we're going to talk about how this guy screwed people over millions and billions of dollars, and that's really obviously disappointing. But the thing that impacted me the most is that this person apparently has

Starting point is 01:16:29 hundreds of games potentially over a thousand hours like lots and lots of time in league of legends and had it stuck it hard stuck in bronze i was trying yeah it's just so cringe dude like i saw i just read an article i just read an article uh that was saying well i didn't read it but like as i was about to come on set here i was like oh my gosh i don't know enough about this to talk about it so that i was like trying to look stuff up real quick and i found an article about how when he was on business meetings people would hear clicks in the background and he had a reputation for playing league of legends while on conference calls for business wow that's uh apm was apm was huge um still hard stuck in bronze though so basically so basically with

Starting point is 01:17:14 the ftx thing uh what i understand about it i didn't follow absolutely everything every development because honestly since the crypto crash earlier this year i have not paid attention as much to crypto stuff because i think that it has largely kind of passed out of the mainstream view i mean i don't want to say that because they're yeah there are still like fpx had their name on a sports arena i don't know for sure which one i don't know but you know we're probably not going to be seeing super bowl ads for for crypto coins anytime soon again or maybe we will i i don't even know when the super bowl is is it in april it's around there i should know this i expected you to know but what am i thinking i actually don't know um all i know is i get a notification

Starting point is 01:18:01 from my brother and my dad every year and they're like hey we're watching the Super Bowl it's on this day and I show up yeah exactly my mom makes chili and it's a family thing um yeah but nobody watches it before the Super Bowl anyways uh apparently as far as I can tell this is like the TLDR Sam Bankman Freed was he he started FTX, the exchange. He was using funds from that exchange as collateral on another one of his companies called Alameda Research. He made some wrong decisions. It caused the collapse of the exchange. Binance, one of the other huge crypto exchanges in the world um uh at first they were like arguing about it it's at first they were like they were they had animosity and then binance was like okay we'll bail you out because these the two founders of

Starting point is 01:18:58 these exchanges actually do know each other and they've been you know they're both in the same sphere and binance said we'd bail you out but then they backed out leaving you know sam begman freed uh in in dire straits and many coins many crypto coins uh lost a huge amount of value including solana and uh and that's basically like the super super tldr of the situation as far as i understand it as far as my understanding a couple just little juicy details and this is alleged i'm just put allegedly on this but as far as my understanding goes he said that he was not leveraging or like gambling with uh users funds that were inputting stuff into the ftx exchange the problem is that ftx was was loaning out money to alameda research and then alameda research was leveraging

Starting point is 01:19:47 and gambling with that money but he was like ftx is not going to do this right he just lended the money to another group so technically right he's like technically they're not doing it but they're doing it they're they're yeah there's like okay where there's some degrees of separation that somehow makes it okay and there's a lot of things that you would expect a League of Legends player to do in this story. Yeah. Yeah. I guess the main question...

Starting point is 01:20:11 Getting. One of the... Yeah, exactly. Get him. Drag him. One of the questions that this kind of brought up for me, I guess, was like, people have been talking about cryptocurrency and like

Starting point is 01:20:25 regulating it for so long and obviously that kind of goes against i mean like you guys brought up the tweet earlier that i thought was hilarious from jeff geerling just being like it has never made sense like the whole idea the whole point you would get into cryptocurrency is to have a decentralized currency and then if when you put it in an exchange it's just like what what's the benefit if now it's just centralized now it's just different money i think i can kind of answer that actually it's it's people that don't care about that aspect um they want it as a monetary vehicle they want something that they can effectively gamble with uh it's an investment um they don't care about the fact that it's decentralized they don't care about any of the the features of the different coins they don't they're not into the technical aspect of it at all

Starting point is 01:21:08 um they just go okay well the line has gone up for a while uh and then it went down and i'm gonna buy the dip and then it's gonna go up and i'll sell it again yeah um so they're not worried about taking off exchange or the decentralized aspects and then obviously there are tons of people that do care about those but i think a lot of the people on exchanges are people that see the super bowl ads and whatever else they see the line going up and they hear about billionaires that are made off of crypto and they're like okay i'll buy some and then they leave it on the exchange because they're not they're not technical and they don't care about those yeah and to me i mean that's the main because like i every time we talk about, I feel a bit bad because way back in the early 2000s, you know, and people were talking about, oh, or before then, I forget. I thought it was like early 2000s when this stuff really, or like 2011 or something. You know, it wasn't a scam really back then. Like people actually were trying to, you know,

Starting point is 01:22:05 they had some like libertarian ideas about finance. It was like the whole goal was the technical stuff. Yeah, about government control of things. Because people weren't speculating. Yeah, which is like, you know, I'm not a libertarian, but I can understand that as a political ideology. You know, you're like, hey, we think the government should have less say

Starting point is 01:22:19 in what we do with our money and how we, you know, what we're allowed to do. And so let's make these cryptocurrencies and like we'll free people especially in in areas of the world where you know there are really oppressive governments it would give some sort of freedom to people to do the things that they want destabilization yeah so like when you go all the way back the idea of cryptocurrency was i'm sure some people were in it just because they thought they could get rich but for some of them no doubt it was like a noble goal could be and and for a considerable

Starting point is 01:22:50 amount of people it still is i i just don't think those are the people that largely got screwed over by this oh for sure a lot of people screwed over by this are speculators and people that are in it to make that money you know yeah yeah and some people are pointing out in the chat that like those people do still exist and oh yeah you know that's true of course of course there are people who are still involved in the in it because they have a hope that it has it could improve uh society in some way but i think that like that's the funny thing with these centralized exchanges it it allowed uh it allowed the the bad actors who are in on the in on things early to leave normies holding the bag it's like oh we got you all hyped up for this stuff and then we got your investment and now we're gonna get out while while the getting's good and you're screwed

Starting point is 01:23:41 that's one of the roughest things about crypto is there's been so many bodies on the path you know um and this is just another one of those scenarios where like uh the people that i know that are really into it and they're doing it properly i'm certain they weren't touched by this uh other than the fact that a lot of different cryptos took a hit right yeah um yeah but like but like they didn't lose their coins their coins may have lost usd value um but they didn't lose their coins right um wait it's still what do you mean uh with the you're saying with the collapse of this exchange oh right because they didn't get hacked or anything it was just the value tanked there was there was well okay no oh maybe it was on ftx i think they

Starting point is 01:24:32 lost their coins what i'm saying is people that don't deal with exchanges because they're like no i'm into the decentralized aspects have it on cold wallets stuff like that those people didn't lose their coins physically um but they might have lost some value or not. I don't know. It depends on what coins they're in. But it just makes the whole space look gross when this type of stuff happens. And I think that's something that a lot of crypto

Starting point is 01:24:56 people have had a bit of a hard time either accepting or understanding or I don't know, this whole time is... I think the reaction by a lot of the hardcores and stuff like this happens is it owned noob.

Starting point is 01:25:10 You should have been on a cold wallet, which is fair to a certain degree. But as much as you want to react that way, as long as this type of stuff happens, I don't think it's going to hit the type of market adoption that they want it to. No. Well,

Starting point is 01:25:29 it was nice to talk about FDX. The topic from today I was least prepared to discuss because I kind of am way more familiar with the rest of it. Well, what do you want to talk about? You wanted to talk about Pokemon, I know for sure. I do want to talk about Pokemon. But maybe no pokemon i know for sure i do want to talk but maybe that's no one cares about that it seems like people are upset that

Starting point is 01:25:48 it's you get choppy frame rates well it's kind of ridiculous um oh there's a source that is from that's right i put you in there because i saw that you tweeted about it so i honestly i didn't know anyone saw this i put this in there because i knew that you would probably have an opinion yeah this is ruining my reputation of not tweeting the best pokemon that i only do replies the best pokemon in any of the in any of any of them i have unironically heard that take unironically which which wait which one i didn't give a take uh that this, Violet or whatever it's called, Scarlet, I don't know. Is the best? Is the best Pokemon of all.

Starting point is 01:26:26 Oh, sorry. No, I meant like which Pokemon, which... Oh, which individual Pokemon. Yeah, which... That's what my favorite Pokemon is. Yeah. Personally, Kadabra. Really?

Starting point is 01:26:37 Yeah, because... Wait, Kadabra. There's Abra. The middle one. Kadabra and then Alakazam, right. Yeah. abra there's abra little one cadabra and then alakazam right yeah because back in red and blue the old school game boy cartridge games um my brother i think it was figured out that you could catch an abra um just north and west of misty's gym the second gym that you run into there's this

Starting point is 01:27:01 little thin patch of grass and you can catch an abra my brother figured it out i don't know how he figured it out he might have spent a while in there i don't know um i mean there are secrets to get an abra there and we were both like that's crazy because the internet's not like so much of a thing yet um but it was magical we figured you can get abras in there we figured out that they're useless ab what do you mean all they can do is teleport they can't learn any other moves if you put them out in battle and you use teleport you just go back to the the poke stop or whatever the uh the oh center i don't remember what's wait was that that yeah because abra so i guess abra was kind of like the well not a derp not metapod because metapod could still have the sting the whatever the the one attack instead of just hard just hardened no i mean if you i think if you find

Starting point is 01:27:51 a metapod in the wild it might just have hardened but if you evolve a cataply into a metapod it was a cataply i think it was uh they could have string shot so you could harden and string shot together which is very kind of a weird like it seems weird together now to me as an adult you gotta harden and then you can string shot so yeah that's the combo that's how you finish the battle this is we would never do this on tech linked this is this is a wansho uh level of maturity yeah yeah yeah yeah but so you would you'd put abra out first and then you'd immediately swap him with your strong pokemon so he got shared experience for the fight your strong pokemon would take a hit but then it would beat whatever you're fighting abra would get experience you eventually get cadabra you fight with cadabra for a little bit

Starting point is 01:28:38 you eventually get psybeam and then you just one shot everything in the game he's so overpowered it's actually crazy don't it's so nuts don't sleep on psybeam it's crazy and i never um we didn't have link cables so we couldn't trade so we couldn't get alakazams yeah oh right yeah that that all seems so rude it's like we're watching the show we're excited we, we want to get the Pokemon, and then if I don't have any friends, then I can't get Alakazam. I'm being discriminated against. You can't get Alakazam, you can't get Gengar. And Haunter is my second favorite Pokemon.

Starting point is 01:29:13 You can't get freaking Gengar, everybody. Yeah. It was so frustrating because both my two favorite Pokemon, I couldn't get to their third evolution. But they were sick anyways because Haunter was also overpowered as hell back in those games. All the normal type attacks couldn't hit them

Starting point is 01:29:29 at all. And a huge percentage of Pokemon back then just had tackle. So you can't touch them. It was amazing. I have been frustrated in the past with the fact that I spend a lot of time on WAN topics, and then you guys just do whatever we're doing right now.

Starting point is 01:29:46 You want me to get back on the topic? Sounds good. But I'm realizing how difficult it is so I don't feel angry anymore because I just want to talk about Pokemon. Yeah, things just happen. This is a topic so let's get back onto the actual Pokemon topic. What do you know about it?

Starting point is 01:30:01 Because you know more than me probably, honestly. Yeah, there's Pokemon Scarlet, scarlet pokemon violet new games that came out and there's clips if you go to the mood of horror ordinary gamers uh fantastic youtube channel if you go to his tweet and you watch this video you can see it chug like crazy the performance problems in this game are actually wild what do i press press? Do I press Linus? Do I press the Linus button? What do you want to do? I want to show my screen.

Starting point is 01:30:29 Make sure it doesn't have anything. I'm just on Twitter. Oh, gosh. Okay. There's no bad things. Linus laptop. There it is. Oh, gosh.

Starting point is 01:30:39 Wait, they can see the chat. Yeah, that's okay. Now they know what everyone else is saying, too. They're going to argue with each other. Oh, no. Sometimes they're really nice. Now they know what everyone else is saying too. They're going to argue with each other. Oh no. Sometimes they're really nice. Sometimes they point arrows and they say nice things.

Starting point is 01:30:49 Witness the chop. But yeah. When has that ever happened? Yeah, the chop is really bad. And you can see things popping in and popping out. And it's just, it's horrible. And...

Starting point is 01:31:00 I mean, okay, so we saw it. Now I can go back. Cam only. I can do this. You're an expert. I can do the WAN show. One quick second. I have not played a Pokemon game since...

Starting point is 01:31:21 Oh, what was it? What was the second one? I played yellow little tidbit okay i was the first kid in my grade six class with a to bring my game boy color and pokemon yellow game to school everyone wanted to play people came up to me and they said hey i'm a pretty good pokemon trainer let me train your pokemon and i would give it to them and then they, hey, I'm a pretty good Pokemon trainer. Let me train your Pokemon. And I would give it to them. And then they'd play and give it back to me and I'd be up a few levels. It's like, I was king of the castle.

Starting point is 01:31:53 That's kind of cool. That's kind of cool. But- That is, I think that's still in the red and blue era. Yeah, yellow- You just had Pikachu. It was red and blue, yeah. Yellow was basically red and blue,

Starting point is 01:32:03 but you had Pikachu. And there were a couple other subtle things too, but it was the same game basically. Then I played the next one. I forget what it's called. The one after that. That's the last one I played. I don't remember.

Starting point is 01:32:16 I don't have any context. The problem here lies with Game Freak. It's development problems. There are like, sure like sure okay the performance on the switch is anemic that is totally absolutely legit the switch at this point is quite old i was still making review videos for linus tech dips when the switch came out um in a hot minute yeah what is it running i will be have a second one by now like you remember like from the shield tablet like yeah like it's it's a problem we

Starting point is 01:32:48 need an updated switch for sure uh 100 agree with that was so crazy when they released the oled version and it just had the it was the same internals it's like what yeah yeah yeah like come on because it wouldn't be that hard either it's just like it's an arm processor right what's that whatever call it the new Switch or whatever. Do your crappy Nintendo naming. No one cares. Just make it a little bit better. But I completely agree with Mudar's take of emulating it and running it with a 60 FPS

Starting point is 01:33:15 patch because it is despicable the state that this game was released in. Because it looks not good. Even when it's not lagged games look good it looks like junk this one and then it also lags like crazy like what what is this oh yeah someone points out the tegra x1 chip is the chip and it was running at half the clock speed of the shield apparently i don't i can't verify that but yeah i mean they had to they had to make some concessions right because it's like

Starting point is 01:33:45 you know mobile it was so frustrating to me too man i got a taste of like i got a taste of like the steam deck and stuff before all these like handhelds came out because i i did the video on ltt about running android on the switch before they uh modded out the uh the exploit with the patch and uh that was awesome man like streaming cloud games and stuff on the switch pc games anyways yeah like conrad says in full plain chat best way to play the switch is to not and honestly at this point that's true because the best way to play switch is to emulate it right um on any of the other things that you have yeah so game freak figure it out a lot of the other things that you have yeah so game freak figure it out a lot of people pointed out that the release cadence might be too aggressive right

Starting point is 01:34:30 i don't care okay either start releasing games start releasing games less frequently right stop cash counting pokemon so hard or hire more people and start doing a rotating thing where one team works on a game for like three years and you have two other teams so they're dropping games uh in in in series or whatever yeah um but like this is this is ridiculous and people should not financially reward um this level of effort yeah i heard people saying that you know it's like okay you can't blame them they only have a year to do it so then it's like okay absolutely blame them if we If we say that that's the cause, then it's either the fact that, like,

Starting point is 01:35:09 I don't know who makes the final decision. It's probably higher-ups at Nintendo wanting to, like, pump out Pokemon games. So, you know, Pokemon's a bad guy. Game Freak can... I wouldn't blame Game Freak. They need to figure it out, basically, yeah. I'm not being like,

Starting point is 01:35:24 hey, you individual developer that worked on the popping in of the graphics, you're a bad person. That's what I thought you were saying to me. They need to come up with a solution, a business solution to this. They need to release less games

Starting point is 01:35:39 so they have more time to work on them, or they need to hire more people, expand the teams, and make it dedicated teams per game, and then make it so're they're rolling so you have one team release a game every like three years have three different teams blah blah blah do something like that i don't prefer that system but if they're really dedicating to this level of release cadence then they need to do something like that okay anyways let's move on enough pokemon um what i don't know what the should we do another topic is that what you do you've already done sponsors so from here it's just it's whatever we're free we're free did you cover messages oh sure that's it i'm sorry and we got topics linus showed me where the merch

Starting point is 01:36:17 messages are but now they've escaped me oh there they are hello we're letting those um we're letting them chill they have to they have to steep they have to yeah uh what do you call it marinating no ferment they have to ferment ah a little bit okay yeah and then the final they'll you send in a merch message and you think it's pretty good but you don't even know how good it's going to be by the time we get to it it'll be even better yeah um these are properly aged merch messages okay which one of these did you have thoughts about line i don't think you guys talked about the doom eternal soundtrack thing right because linus asked me to put that in there but i i anthony filled it out so i don't i still don't know what's going on with that so i think i think it's probably best to leave that to net next week

Starting point is 01:37:02 if linus still wants to talk about it unless you know everything about it i know some things about it this amount of notes is actually crazy um i have a large monitor it does not fit on the monitor anthony does not screw around he doesn't he dives in i like it um but yeah i think i'm just going to start reading through this i know some of this i'm going to have opinions along the way but based on the amount of notes here i i honestly don't think i know all of this um anthony says i did my best to cut this down but this is a messy one that's totally legit honestly this being this long very likely makes a lot of sense and he intros it with bolded letters which we don't normally do that's important don't go after anyone this is not an encouragement to harass anyone or anything don't do it please

Starting point is 01:37:47 don't do it every single time that people say this and then people are like well it's a coded message to do it and then they do it anyways they screw with everything and they make it worse and it's really freaking annoying so stop don't go after anyone seriously let there is proper well i believe there's we'll see i think there's legal process happening with this right now um yeah i mean let that let that go its course yeah we'll see anyways you go ahead new internals much anticipated soundtrack was released to little acclaim in 2020 when it was discovered that the quality of the mixes were incredibly subpar. Some of the many issues include cuts between songs and sections, sometimes with overlap but no fade, causing clicks and pops, tempo changes, and just

Starting point is 01:38:32 various gaps. Outcries surrounding this led to Mick disowning the OST, according to Doom Eternal executive producer Marty Stratton on the r slash doom subreddit shortly after release. I will add some context here. The soundtrack for doom, not eternal, like the previous one was amazing. Fantastic. And I believe it was made by the same person. Interesting. Moving forward in his lengthy post, this being Marty Stratton, uh, he devent, he defended id or id software, id software, He defended id software and sound designer Chad Mossholder. The main issue with the OST itself, according to Stratton, was that id didn't have the original files to mix with, leaving only the in-game files to splice together. It's further claimed that Mick delivered less music than expected in time for the OST's release, necessitating these splices. Mick was said to have supervised Chad on a backup OST

Starting point is 01:39:28 and signed off on a combined work. Marty says that Id did absolutely nothing to prevent Mick from delivering on his commitments within the timeframe he asked for. The harassment faced by Id, he said, was a result of comments made by Mick, who had since done quote unquote nothing to change the conversation this is a lot of names good luck following it the ultimate

Starting point is 01:39:52 ending of this is going to be if you're interested you're gonna have to dive into it yourself yeah mick and nick and there's a mick and a nick oh my gosh i think so am i wrong and id no it's mick and marty oh marty yeah i'll think so. Am I wrong? An id? No, it's Mick and Marty. Oh, Marty. Yeah, yeah. I'll start with M, which I think is going to get hard. Mick and Marty. But anyways.

Starting point is 01:40:10 At the end of all this, maybe they'll still open up a pasta shop together. A pasta shop. Wouldn't that be cute? You don't eat there. You just go and buy pasta and take it home. Okay. Continue. No sauce.

Starting point is 01:40:29 Very recently, Mick Gordon posted a very very long very detailed rebuttal in the post prompted by damage to his professional reputation mick provides evidence uh that highlights the extreme crunch he was expected to work through being asked to write music before areas of the game was created often resulting in music that did not fit and had to be remade having the ost announced while no contract was in place to produce it expectation of a new track every two weeks regardless of whether previous tracks had been rejected or had to be redone due to changes in design that's a huge issue an extreme push to meet the original november 2022 2019 release date, threats of lawsuits during arguments over contractual demands, and not being paid for 11 months while this was happening.

Starting point is 01:41:13 Whoa. The heck? I didn't know that part. For the OST, Mick says his interaction with Chad was minimal, and he never heard the final product before release metadata provided by Chad showed the OST was being made without him for six months before he was contracted to do it after it was delayed but without him as in I Mick? I don't know. According to Mick, it definitely did have the original source files,

Starting point is 01:41:49 but they didn't mix them properly. When it did release, meaning the game, I think, several demo tracks were rejected and thus not paid for. Several demo tracks that were rejected and thus were not paid

Starting point is 01:42:07 for because they were rejected were included in the ost which is not cool that no mick says that if he had acted the way marty says bethesda would have had the right to not pay him um what they did including an on-time bonus. Okay. Mick suggests that the real reason the OSC was rushed was because of legal issues surrounding pre-order bonuses and consumer protection laws. Prior to Marty's post, Mick says that Marty had instructed him to not... Holy crap.

Starting point is 01:42:42 Hello? I can't follow this. There's too many names. I don't know if i'm just like brain frog from being sick but i'm reading this out myself i know honestly as marty mick marty chad marty mick mark doe uh twitter okay anyways there's a lot of uh he said she said um moral the story is don't do or request contract work without a rock solid contract there we go aren't employees and always keep receipts this is these are good points uh discussion question we've heard of crunch in the games industry before we were literally talking about it before the stream uh but mostly in respect to employees not contractors oh how much of this is a i don't know if that's

Starting point is 01:43:25 true it's definitely both always uh how much of this is a systemic problem and how much of this is due to the dynamic of management versus contractor i think it's absolutely both how many interactions like this happen that aren't high profile and never get properly resolved and who gets the short end of the stick. That's a lot of discussion. I will say that one of the only things that I think I can say about this is, I think in the games industry particularly, there seems to be a problem with having a lot of this type of conflict

Starting point is 01:43:59 happen in the background, and it only really comes out um you know when when there's like a big giant uh online fiasco fiasco about it i feel like when it comes to other industries maybe like movies um you know this stuff is more likely to emerge as people are kind of like talking about it uh in the open a little bit more but with this it's like oh we found out after the fact that all of these employees from these game studios have been completely uh i mean i will say that like when it comes to like visual effects and other things like there have been similar uh you know uh scandals in in other industries it just seems that like it seems that this is a gut feeling that in the games industry it seems like this stuff seems to be swept under the rug a bit more um which is not good yeah um i think a lot of people just swallow the pill that they're working

Starting point is 01:44:50 in the games industry so they'll deal with it right um because there's this belief in crunch it's like a cultural thing almost depending now whether it's it's it's changing but it's also a very difficult thing because games are often not always obviously but games are often especially this one i would include in their very complicated systems that have to be worked on by a huge variety of teams and those teams are going to have different delays and then the ability for other teams to be able to progress in their work is going to lean on a different team achieving their goal. So if team A has a delay, that delays team B's ability to work on something. So a lot of these delays will cascade into even more delays. And software development is already a situation where it's nigh impossible to make accurate timeline estimations of how long it's

Starting point is 01:45:45 going to take you to do something you can make very educated guesses then you can run into problems that there was no way you could have foreseen that can just wreck everything right uh some people there's also a huge chance for scope changes this is a huge problem in the gaming industry. Something will happen. Remember when Battle Royale just blew up and every game in development was like, oh wait, we need a Battle Royale. Oh my goodness. That's a pretty major scope change, for example.

Starting point is 01:46:17 But yeah, it can be really rough. Also, gamers. Not the greatest audience to have in this scenario yeah yeah i mean because they're gonna be pissed about crunch but then if your game is late you're the worst person on the planet so it's like and i will say to validate what you're saying about twitter earlier like it definitely seems like you know uh gamers are online more so than you know fans of other entertainment mediums uh you know i i don't think that you're getting like you know with movies and stuff you have people

Starting point is 01:46:53 like backlash but like with games it's like every little game that is able to have a twitter account and post updates is is liable to be swarmed by people who are unhappy with decisions they make um less so for like smaller movies and whatnot so because they're very very loud um they will complain about things very quickly and very intensely um but they absolutely refuse to vote with their wallet uh they will review bomb things i'll do all this other kind of stuff that one of my favorite things to see is where people will catch people in screenshots where they have review bombed something and then bought it afterwards um like people who will be like i will never buy this thing and then you can see it's like in

Starting point is 01:47:40 their account so they clearly did buy it it's like that's that's gamers in my opinion they will scream about something they'll say it's the worst most vile thing ever and then they'll buy it and buy all the dlc and buy all the optional skins and spend every dollar they possibly can on the game i will say that like you know i'm on a i'm on a movie podcast so i feel the need i i get i i empathize with the need to kind of like play what other people are playing and like oh this game just came out everyone's talkingize with the need to kind of like play what other people are playing and like oh this game just came out everyone's talking about it i need to play it because i need to have a take so that i can post about it or talk about on discord or whatever and like you know you know i don't want to have to avoid spoilers there's all sorts of things so i empathize with that thing

Starting point is 01:48:18 because on a movie podcast you got to keep up with what's going on you got to watch the new movie what's going on you gotta watch the new movie but at the same time after having a kid i uh have way less time to uh keep up with things so uh i i i i've never really been good at playing like the super new new game but even less so now and i feel like if you allow yourself to to kind of get rid of that need to like play every game when it comes out so that you can take part in the whatever you call it. I mean, dogpiling on people online. It's actually pretty cool if you just kind of chill out and you're like, I can play some of these 300 games in my Steam library. I don't need to keep buying things, you know? Yeah.

Starting point is 01:49:04 Minimalism. Yeah. Come on, guys. steam library i don't need to keep buying things you know yeah minimalism yeah um come on guys the other thing that i wanted to mention real quick is that people were posting in the in the chat tech unions it's our uh unions in games is like it's it's starting to change but there's not a whole lot of worker protections because there's so much contract work and stuff and we kind of alluded to that earlier anyways that's all i wanted to say that's what i was saying too is like there was the discussion question but like we hear about it with employees but not contractors right there's a huge amount of contractors in the game development space you probably don't realize they're not employees right um but

Starting point is 01:49:34 yeah it's totally a thing okay let's move on um you want to do your people make games yeah so this was something that um someone sent to linus and linus hadn't didn't really know uh what was going on with it so he asked me to take a look and i am subscribed to people make games i like them as a channel they uh you know obviously tech longer is kind of a similar thing i'm trying to do where i want to do this type of deep dive and uh investigation but they made this video they post they posted about a week ago just over a week ago and they're finding that valve's underage gambling problem do you remember that from like 2015 2016 absolutely yeah uh it's basically as bad as it ever was i mean i don't want to say that because

Starting point is 01:50:18 we don't have like exact numbers but it's it's still a huge thing i mean uh here i'll start reading that stuff i guess a recent investigation by youtube gaming journalist people make games has uncovered the fact that the csgo skin gambling industry is continuing to get minors hooked on gambling despite the issue dominating headlines back in 2016 i'm just going to uh bring up their video here just so you can see it okay real quick and then you can you can go watch it because it's you know it's 36 minutes long it's a great video um check it out and now to go back to the thing uh remember so so streamers tom syndicate castle and trevor t martin martin back in 20 you

Starting point is 01:51:01 know 16 received multiple civil lawsuits for for promoting the gambling site csgo lotto.com during their streams without disclosing that they were the site's owners they rigged the site so they could win top tier loot while streaming to their millions of followers many of which were children and similar cases happened with other streamers a valve eventually threatened skin gambling websites with legal action unless they closed down and twitch warned uh streamers not to stream those those websites uh which i thought was interesting because they didn't do it because of like the moral reason or like the you know because it's bad for minors but because doing so would be breaking the terms of service of third

Starting point is 01:51:42 parties which is against twitch's own terms of service. And there was a whole... Were you around? Did you pay attention to the recent thing where Twitch banned unregulated gambling, but not actual... Gambling is still, like, totally fine on Twitch? Which is, like, you can have a position on that.

Starting point is 01:52:00 I'm not saying that, like, there should never... You know, I don't want to go hard on that. But it was just interesting that they it seems like everyone's just kind of trying to pass the buck here um yeah so then uh as so all these points are from people make games video just so you know uh if you want more information definitely watch it in 2017 syndicate slash t martin got lost got their lawsuits dismissed and this is an interesting point. Their lawyer made the argument that using the site was basically just like using McDonald's Monopoly, or like playing Monopoly at McDonald's, because you can get a free lotto ticket if you ask. So, is that a Canadian thing? I was asking somebody the other day, is McDonald's Monopoly just in Canada? But they have promotions. No, there's American McDonald's Monopoly. essentially gambling more or less uh by buying mcdonald's products and the re the way they get around it being quote-unquote gambling i guess is because you can actually go up to the counter and say i don't want to buy anything but i want to play uh and they'll give you like two tickets

Starting point is 01:53:18 or whatever and you can rip them so you're not i didn't know you could do that but that makes sense yeah because you don't have to put money down you You could like, it's a game. And if you buy products, you'll get more tickets, but you could just get tickets by not paying money. So that was like the legal, it was related to that argument, which is the way that they got the lawsuits dismissed, which is kind of crazy. Um, so most people kind of forgot about this whole issue and thought the issue had been resolved. I certainly did. I, I thought that like, oh yeah, the whole skin gambling thing. I, that was, that was way back. They figured that out. But people make games points out that skin gambling sites are still thriving sites like CSGO Roll, CSGO Empire, CSGO Fast, CSGO Polygon, and more.

Starting point is 01:54:01 They have millions of users each. Uh uh so their video has a sobering section playing excerpts from a lot of interviews with players who said they got into it at like 13 and 14 years old uh they bet and lost hundreds of dollars on skin betting and many describe the experience as a key reason for their gambling addiction so i think that's that's really where you know if you if you're coming into this and you're like, yeah, it's just a game, like, you know, it's not that big of a deal. Yes, if you have the, you know, mental capability and emotional maturity to understand what you're doing and how you're getting into it, right? But for 13 and 14-year-olds and whatever, they don't, like,

Starting point is 01:54:42 it's setting up these habits and then they stay like they describe these people describe having modern day they have issues with it now because they got so into it back then and then like it it uh forms these dopamine pathways someone pointed out sorry just before we keep going uh apparently the u.s used to have monopoly uh but it was rigged by the promo runners i haven't had in years that's the only reason why i knew they had it because i watched this whole mini documentary and how the fbi was involved with mcdonald's monopoly because of all the corruption involved with it which is so yeah and other people are pointing out that um gambling is already in game though like in csgo you can pay money get a loot

Starting point is 01:55:27 box you don't know what's in the box you know there's there's loot boxes like it's it's a common concept but i mean i i guess i i'm i'm not familiar enough with the like long history of loot boxes in games to know whether csgo was like one of the first games with that. Would you, can you speak to that? Luke? You can say no. I suspect there was probably, I don't know. Yeah. But I suspect there was probably some form of gambling before loot boxes.

Starting point is 01:55:56 I know loot boxes was the first mainstream. Sure. And the accusation, one of the things they talk about in the video is the fact that when you open the loot box, it's like a little slot machine graphic. And there's all these skins and they all go and then slow down. And you're like, get the feeling that, oh, my gosh, I'm so close to that high end one.

Starting point is 01:56:15 Oh, I got to do it again. I was so close that time. But really, the result is decided before you open the box. So, yeah, that's basically where things are at these these these sites are thriving uh they're being used by children uh and adults uh which is whatever but the the question they ask is why doesn't valve do anything about this uh pmg's case is essentially that like they're they're saying that it's valve's job to stop this uh since it's their collectible system on steam that allows people to say all right you're gonna uh you can earn some of these things through the game but a lot of people are just going and buying them and then

Starting point is 01:56:57 using that you know they're taking the skin to the skin betting site and gambling with that um analysts told people make games that it's obvious how valve profits from allowing skin gambling sites to thrive like casino chips every skin is bought from the house that's valve but the only way to cash out is to sell your skins to third-party sites meaning valve keeps every dime in a casino when you win a bunch of money you take the chips back to the to the house and you're like hey okay let's exchange this for money so if you win a lot of stuff at a casino this the casino loses money or i mean whatever in that they have to give you the money directly if you win a bunch of valuable skins in skin gambling valve isn't losing money

Starting point is 01:57:43 if you want to like cash those out because you're going to go to a third party site and they're going to pay you for the skins thinking that they can take those skins and put those back into the ecosystem and get money from that so valve keeps all the money like so they have a incentive to keep these going i'm not saying that they know this and that they're doing this on purpose but it doesn't look great um if they completely shut down these sites tomorrow analysts sold people make games that the value of skins would tank so that's all another reason for them not to do it and the popularity of the sites keeps people using valves products people still do like showing off their skins in game so

Starting point is 01:58:22 you know it's it's it's tough because there's a clear incentive for valve to not do anything but at the same time it's like the last time that this kind of thing came to light there was a huge backlash about it and made crazy headlines and everyone was talking about it so um and like if people are like ah the skins can't be worth that much i've seen how skins how much skins cost in games well um there is an ak an ak-47 case hardened pattern number 661 uh that apparently just sold for over 400 grand usb wow one skin for one gun and might i say it looks ugly worth it because apparently there's four stickers on it it's not about how it looks luke it's for the prestige it is this has got to be

Starting point is 01:59:14 the prestige because it is a butt ugly skin it's like a fine skin i guess it looks okay well now wait does it have a name can i look it up or stupid stickers on it just just look up uh four hundred thousand dollar csgo ak you'll find it 400k csgo dexerto sold by the danish collector uh that's it is that it are we looking at it yeah that's it blue all the stickers are on it it looks stupid i mean i think it's kind of cute oh man i don't know i just i don't i'm just kidding i don't understand i get it from an exclusive well i don't get it at all but um i guess the value in it is the exclusivity um because if i remember correctly i think someone said it's like stat tracked i don't remember um it's also in like the like new or whatever their naming is for um as good condition as it can be and it's in a really rare pattern and then the four stickers i

Starting point is 02:00:17 believe are rare or something um but like man wow i don't know. Wait, how do I? This one. Cam only. Wait, you can do that, can't you, Dan? You're trusting me with the potential reveal of sensitive information when you have control too? Yeah. I'm the dumb tech news man. You can't give me control. This is a huge mistake. But you're Linus now.

Starting point is 02:00:41 I'm Linus now. Yeah, a lot of people are still confused about why I'm here and not Linus. I don't touch your button. Quick update. Linus had to I'm Linus now. Yeah, a lot of people are still confused about why I'm here and not Linus. I don't touch your buttons. Quick update, Linus had to go to an event. He's a high-flying billionaire doing cool things like Bruce Wayne all the time, so you can't stick around, you know? He's going to see Luke. So the...

Starting point is 02:01:02 Yeah, I already covered the slot machine thing. So the discussion question i had for this was gaming started as a young person's game but is now enjoyed by all ages whose responsibility is it to protect kids from gambling is it valve is it their parents is it the government like who who should we really be looking at here and being like ah you're you're at fault like obviously valve should do something about it obviously valve it would be nice if they did, but one of the points that they make in the video

Starting point is 02:01:27 that I didn't really cover in this one is how Valve kind of takes sort of a hands-off approach with a lot of things when it comes to moderation. Like, we had that whole thing in, uh,

Starting point is 02:01:38 I forget how long ago that was now, but originally they didn't have any, or they did have, like, porn games on Steam, and then they were like they banned them and then they're like okay just kidding they're back a year later or something do you remember anything about that yeah i don't remember all the details exactly but i do remember that was a thing that happened i think that's how tags came into

Starting point is 02:02:01 existence right oh well there you go people could tag something it's like not safe for work essentially and then you could by default that tag is not shown to you i i think that's i think that's came around at the same time yeah people are pointing out that there is porn on steam now yes but like that was that was a recent development because they were for a while there they were like it seemed like they honestly flip-flopped a bunch of times because they were like do we want to have heavy heavy moderation should this be like for a family-friendly type of situation or do we just kind of is it just like a games platform and anyone can put what they want on there within reason you know i think the main thing that they did was basically make it so that unless you're looking for it you shouldn't find it

Starting point is 02:02:41 right um and i think they largely succeeded accomplish that yeah because unless you unless you tell theme like i want to see these hello he has to yell tell that bird to shut the hell up i just whistle at wait where's this where i have a swear bleep i won't use it i won't risk it yeah don't linus is good at it I'm going to screw it up and then I'll get our whole channel demonetized. Yeah, it's scary. The way that I talk normally, the way I talk off camera, we're in trouble.

Starting point is 02:03:13 I do, if you ever played Assassin's Creed or Black Flag, I do the whistles that he does in that game to my birds. Oh, so you muted yourself. And they find it distracting because it sounds like a bird chirp. it's distracting so they're like huh often off of what they're currently doing um you should you should yell at them like yeah like the yelling at them will accomplish just like nothing because they they like loud noises so if i yell at them they'll be like yeah let's party yeah they're not gonna like

Starting point is 02:03:47 interpret it as anger um okay so to come back to the to the topic i guess uh and obviously you know people have pointed out in the in the in the chat like oh you know if parents are letting their kids have access to funds and stuff then you know that's like you know no one no one's to blame or whatever and it's like you know not everyone's parents are are great people you know like sometimes or they're busy or they don't know and uh you know like this is this is a huge reason why this is such an issue is because parents kind of you know know about movie ratings and you know other things like that are designed to protect children from experiences that they're not ready for and games is still like even after so many years uh games is still kind of like a black box to a lot of parents and uh you know no

Starting point is 02:04:41 matter what generation they're from, obviously things are progressing there. But it's still like, you know, a lot of kids, a lot of parents don't, they just don't know. So you can't say, oh, it's up to the parents to do it because someone think of the children, etc. You know what I mean? I do think I would like to see more regulation from government about things like loot boxes and games. I think promoting gambling to a format that as much as you are saying it is definitely an all ages thing now is definitely targeted. Great in the kids direction, right? A lot of games, I mean, and then promoting gambling through the form of loot boxes with those games, and a form of gambling that ropes you then promoting gambling through the form of loot boxes with

Starting point is 02:05:25 those games and a form of gambling that ropes you in right because you're always going to get like at least one for free um and i think a lot of those games will rig that first one that you get for free so you win something kind of cool and then you want to do it more right yeah and they also like oh good i'm just saying like i i just think it's it's uh and i would like to see it not be what did you say there what was that see i don't know now i just want to know which special which one of the forbidden words um yes avada kedavra uh um oh i was going to say something else about it but i forgot oh oh at the end of the at the end of the video, it's a great video. You should definitely go watch it.

Starting point is 02:06:10 They talked to the Video Game Attorney guy, actually. I forget what his name is, but I think he's on YouTube as Video Game Attorney. And he was talking about how some platforms, I don't think he wanted to say specifically whether it was Valve or not, so I don't know if it's Valve. I think he was trying to refer to other platforms that have these kinds of mechanics and how they will, um, they will manipulate drops so that if you, if they've detected through, uh, data collection that you're someone who's more likely to spend money, they will limit

Starting point is 02:06:44 the amount of, uh, things that you can earn in game because they know that you're someone who's more likely to spend money they will limit the amount of things that you can earn in game because they know that you're going to pay for the good stuff but if you are someone who won't pay wow who is less likely to pay they'll give you better stuff which is just that's so rough which is crazy so again i'm not saying that a specific platform does that but this guy was indicating that at least some platforms that he knows of does this, and he knows this by talking to the people involved in that. So yeah, it's a crazy time out there.

Starting point is 02:07:14 And yeah, I think I agree that we need some sort of... I think that some jurisdictions, I think the UK had some sort of legislation about loot boxes being officially gambling. I'm not sure where that's at in North America. But I. It's kind of crazy that this video hasn't gotten more traction, given how huge the issue was back in 2016. It was like dominating headlines.

Starting point is 02:07:39 I remember I was I was making net linked daily at that time at NCIX. And we talked about it a lot at that time uh it was a big deal yeah and this time you know these guys put out this video and honestly i didn't i watched i i saw it pop up and i was like okay yeah because i thought the issue i didn't watch it initially until linus was like oh this might be something for wancho and then i watched it because i didn't i was like i thought it was over i thought this was just going to be like a little update i'm like yeah there's still people trading skins but i didn't realize i'm gonna watch it because i i haven't watched it yet but i i love

Starting point is 02:08:12 the people make games channels they're fantastic um but i i people might just be tired of this topic and more busy watching uh the world burn in various ways indeed um uh next and last topic should we go over the disabling ios anti-tracking thing or should we just hit merge messages i can leave this up to you i can do the ios anti-tracking pretty quickly i think it's it's not it's not as complicated as maybe it looks um wait where did it go i can't up there it is yeah yeah anthony filled this out um basically so basically the apple released this um anti-tracking or app tracking transparency feature in ios 14.5 uh it's a prompt that asks if users would like to allow the allow apps like individual apps it pops up uh it asks you if you

Starting point is 02:09:06 want to allow the app to track your activities across the internet and other companies apps a massive 96 of us users opted out in the earliest days of the features released uh and you know facebook and apple had a big fight about this they facebook lost a bunch of money and apple was like you know screw you because this is what we have to do to protect people's privacy. And it's becoming apparent that what Apple was doing was basically kind of making a play to be Google, in the sense that they want to supercharge their own ad services. Now, you guys have talked about this, I think a little bit before on the wan show with with various topics that have come up but the key detail about this one is the fact that when you go to disable uh the settings in ios that are meant to where is it i want to say the the actual thing um disabled i think one of them is personalized ads and the other other one is do not track.

Starting point is 02:10:05 Personalized suggestions and high-device analytics? Yeah. Anthony said the, like, a lot more technical way to describe it. But basically there are two toggles on your iPhone that you can go and toggle off. One says allow personalized ads, and you can you can say no i don't want personalized ads which is uh it's ostensibly saying that don't track me and don't collect my data just give me the the generic ads uh which means you don't need my data and then there's another one that says do not track and that's like involving sending a do not track request in like various other situations

Starting point is 02:10:41 and you can turn both of those off. And these developers, app developers, Tommy Misk and Talal Haj Bakri, who work together under the name Misk, that's their development team, revealed that Apple's app tracking transparency, when you turn these off, it still collects the data in Apple apps. So in non-Apple apps,

Starting point is 02:11:04 it will stop them from collecting data on you. But in Apple apps, and not every Apple app, but a good many of them, including the App Store itself, collects all kinds of information, profile IDs, hardware IDs, and info, keyboard language, metrics about apps viewed with timestamps and durations for viewing, all actions taken within the apps, including like you tapping on things and how long you're looking at things, a massive amount of data describing subscription statuses and installed

Starting point is 02:11:34 apps. This is all collected and sent to Apple and it's used to, well, I don't know if they found that it's used to personalize the ads. I don't know if they can get that far, but they know that it's being collected and sent to Apple. So like, I don't, honestly, there's a part of me that I'm like, is this as big of a deal? Because it's not like, there's one part of me that's like, this is kind of crazy.

Starting point is 02:12:00 Apple is saying whatever happens on your iPhone stays in your iPhone. And at the same time, it is a big deal because they put these buttons on your phone that don't do anything when it comes to Apple's own apps. Aggressively misleading people about privacy is like super not okay. So I think it's a big deal. Yeah. So like we made this the title story on TechLink the other day. And the original title I put on there was these buttons do nothing or these buttons don't work because they don't do anything you can swap that it's like you know when you open facebook or whatever the prompt will come up being like do you want to add facebook to to track you and you say no and that works in that app but in an apple app it doesn't do it anyways so um i mean

Starting point is 02:12:42 i think you guys looked into this and when you open an apple app you don't get the prompt you can set it at a at a system level but but it doesn't do anything so anyways um discussion question how can we trust anything any company says about respecting your privacy yeah so like that's kind of it's the same thing you can't uh we live in the current uh year and it's bad it's bad news for privacy should companies making privacy claims be required to independently audit their practices yes yeah but like

Starting point is 02:13:13 if you look at the 2008 housing crisis the independent auditing houses I shouldn't say houses in that context the independent auditing firms or whatever were all just playing the game right so they would just get paid by the companies that they were supposed to be auditing and just put stamps on things be like yep looks good yeah all the time

Starting point is 02:13:39 because they were just making tons of money that's just gonna happen again so like yeah that should probably happen but it's just gonna have endless amounts of corruption anyways did you ever i have a question for you luke did you ever believe because i i i know that you care about uh stupid things like facts and uh evidence but on previous when shows it seems like you you know um have wanted to kind of like hey let's say like like, let's hold on. Let's only say things that we're absolutely confident of when it comes to Apple and privacy. When this topic has come up before, did you have an actual, did you have, did any part of you actually believe that Apple actually was talking, walking the walk a little bit when it came to privacy they say we care about your privacy did you believe them a little bit not that there's no reason to believe them on

Starting point is 02:14:31 anything anymore i'm just saying yeah pre all of this i i did to a certain degree i thought an ios device was more secure um and i think it was at that time um when this landed i had concerns it did it didn't seem like they were 100 playing ball in the way that they wanted people to think they were um but i didn't have a particular reason to think that they weren't like i'm the opposite of shocked that this topic is in the doc and this is a thing that's what i didn't want to say it until it happens right right because i think you i think there's a lot of danger there uh when you criticize things or people or corporations or whatever uh for something that you don't know is legit or potentially isn't legit that makes it so that when you do want to criticize them for something that is legit

Starting point is 02:15:21 it adds question to your criticism right um so i always want to be want to be careful about that yeah no and i i mean i i completely agree i i will say that uh i in the absence of any hard evidence that apple did anything differently i you know it it seemed like they did care about privacy uh you know and and i think that like it made sort of business sense too to oh yeah have that as a differentiating factor in a world where absolutely everyone is collecting everything about you that they can apple comes out here and is like guess what we don't have a huge ads business we we get all our money from hardware and and software to a certain degree but but it's mostly iphone sales mac sales like that

Starting point is 02:16:06 that's where they're making a lot of their money and they're and now it's services as well they're selling subscription services and all this stuff but and that's huge um but it hasn't been like a data collection you know we're serving you ads and that's how we make money that's been google's thing so i was willing to believe to a certain extent in the absence of evidence that apple dead did care about or not i don't want to say care about your privacy but that they had chosen to not do this type of collection but i was hoping that was the case i just i wasn't 100 confident yeah i just i feel like the the place that i find this to be the most egregious is in the political realm. When you have people attacking people that they don't agree with politically for, like, physical features or aesthetic reasons.

Starting point is 02:16:56 Like, I don't like this person's hair or the way they dress or something like that. uh the way they dress or something like that um not only does it usually just uh bolster and steal the resolve of the other side because they're like that's a stupid reason to attack my person um but it's not accomplishing anything and it makes all your other accusations just seem lame um so like it's you're not you're not helping anything by throwing these these uh criticisms out there that don't actually matter right so i try to keep it try to keep it legit but with that speaking of legit yes first messages time let's do it curated merch messages um you're gonna read them do you want me to read them why don't you read them luke you read them yeah i can barely see them so maybe it's better if you do read them uh we'll start with this one for you though luke

Starting point is 02:17:48 um hi luke what's your opinion on external gpus i personally use a mac studio m1 ultra for blender with no external gpu do you think they're worth it using it for blender So it's very, very likely a professional reason why you're doing it. So it might be a good idea to grab one. External GPUs are very neat and very problem prone in my experience. Their failure rates seem, they feel high to me. So I don't know. I've tried to stay away from them pretty much as much as i can and that's been pretty easy because i haven't had a lot of use cases why i would why i would need one

Starting point is 02:18:33 um i've used them multiple times and they've been kind of a pain every time uh but when i used to do that was in the infancy of external gpus so that kind of makes sense. One time that I used one more recently was with an Asus laptop that Linus had at his house and it was flawless. So, I don't know. That was an external GPU that was made specifically for that laptop.

Starting point is 02:18:58 Like a power upgrade kind of situation. Maybe that helped it. Someone in Flowplane chat said you can't do egpu on m1 so maybe get wrecked yeah wow uh okay brag him them i mean i've got another question here on a similar vein um this guy also uses blender cycles uh that work type is dominated by nvidia with nvidia prices climbing to the moon do you think rdna3 may be price competitive. That work type's dominated by NVIDIA, with NVIDIA prices climbing to the moon. Do you think RDNA3 may be price competitive in this work type?

Starting point is 02:19:30 Will AMD ever catch NVIDIA? I have no idea. Hopefully. That's all I'd say. I can't say how it's going to perform before the thing comes out. But hopefully Labs tests that type of use case. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:19:45 A lot of it's the proprietary CUDA stuff that NVIDIA just holds, right? That is a big problem, yeah. This one's from Reese. Hey guys, do you have any takes on ID security? Australia has gone through a load of hacks on big businesses recently. Lots of data on the internet.

Starting point is 02:20:03 Two out of five of every Aussie personal data went online via health insurance. Yeah. I find it very entertaining that the places, the things that I use that have the worst security are government services

Starting point is 02:20:21 and banking services. Which is just crazy um yeah i i can i can attest to that as well i'm i'm like it's it's wild to me that that that those type of services in my experience don't have like they like if they do have two-factor it's just sms yeah and i'm like yeah can we can we get this together here like come on guys it's a lot of banks and uh government services are often gigantic extremely extremely slow moving super bureaucratic situations where it's very hard to make those types of changes so like I get it from the tech teams that work on those services

Starting point is 02:21:12 I'm not blaming you I understand you're dealing with muddy waters but it's just it's very disappointing and anytime I go to do any banking stuff or any government services stuff I'm just like this is like rough when like accounts that I'm just like, this is rough. When accounts that I have for

Starting point is 02:21:27 random stupid games that I don't care about have way better security than my government identity, this is weird. I don't know. No one's stealing your skins, bro.

Starting point is 02:21:43 We got you. Meanwhile, your bank is like um we sent you at we sent you an email uh could you are you who you say you are maybe i don't know you're not allowed to use special characters in your password yes we don't know how to sanitize our inputs character limits oh yeah and no specials and like oh my gosh you used you used the symbol that is on this key in the keyboard and we don't know how to say it so you can't you're just talking about deja i don't know what accent i'm doing you're doing deja den that's what the banks they all they'll they're all european you know yeah uh last merch message if you guys uh want to deal with this it's by nathaniel long time watcher first time merch message if you guys want to deal with this

Starting point is 02:22:25 it's by Nathaniel long time watcher first time merch message I got my skydiving license last year and wanted to ask if either of you would ever do it

Starting point is 02:22:34 thanks for the gear I'm assuming that he meant either of you by like Linus and Luke Linus you have to answer this like Riley would I'll channel him you must channel him

Starting point is 02:22:44 did you just switch our names around? No, you're Linus now. You have to impersonate Linus impersonating Riley. Well, I don't have a Linus impression. I wish I did. I just haven't worked on it at all. I can work on it. You answer the question.

Starting point is 02:23:02 You want to skydive, Luke? You can answer the question too, just skydive luke you can answer the question too just personally you don't have to answer it for linus answer for yourself no answer it personally i think i would definitely do now i feel way less of a need or a desire to skydive i've never skydived i feel i i think before i had a kid it changes you before i had a kid i'm like heck yeah like let's go i mean the the rate of accidents is so low i mean like the the the probability of anything happening is like so low and so i'm like oh maybe if i you know ever get the chance i'll do it but now that i have a kid

Starting point is 02:23:37 it's like if someone's like yeah you want to go skydiving i'm like not really i totally feel why why would i at this point yeah i just like um so my my problem with it because i actually looked into this like within the month um let me let me try to find it. It's really expensive. Yes, very true. It's like genuinely real big money. And then I think they said they got certified, right?

Starting point is 02:24:17 In the merch messages? Oh, it's gone. It's gone. Yeah, it got a license. Sorry. Yeah, let me pull it up. It got a license. Licensing package. Best value licensing package. Blah, blah, blah. it's gone yeah you got a license sorry yeah let me pull it up you got a license um licensing package best value licensing package blah blah blah blah blah must complete all these different levels basically okay pff package deal twenty eight hundred dollars jeez yeah exactly it's a lot of money and it's a lot of time. Like if I remember correctly, you have to do like 12 dives.

Starting point is 02:24:48 You have to answer a skill testing question. Which direction is the ground? But yeah, it's, it's a lot of money and it's a lot of time. Um, yeah. Interesting to me.

Starting point is 02:25:03 I would want to do one just for fun before i tried to dedicate to something that was so expensive and took so much time i also don't understand really the reason to to go skydiving to be certified oh okay i believe that let's go by yourself when i travel like oh i think he's saying that he probably or they got in the um uh they got their certification because they're they're doing it maybe they're an instructor i don't know okay don't you have to have like a certification or a license to be allowed to do it by yourself without like being strapped to another person yeah and if you want to do it regularly even if you don't want to be like is it worth twenty eight hundred dollars

Starting point is 02:25:47 and twelve dives with other people anyways to be able to do it by yourself i think should you just i think it's a small price to pay for to feel alive i'd give anything for that you fool no yeah i don't know it's it's not off the docket for me but uh yeah that's for sure i'm enjoying diving for now maybe on my bucket list maybe when i'm an old geezer and i'm like i'm probably gonna kick it soon let's jump out of the store there was a there was a movie wasn't didn't they do that in a movie the bucket list the movie i think moving on wait is there anything else what do we do we're moving on to the end of the show the end of the show yeah i think just in time for me to leave

Starting point is 02:26:31 yeah riley for for joining me hey um no problem it is six so it's time to let you go i think uh yes employment law i was going to try and come up with like some uh some way to extricate myself from this situation. This is the best way. Yeah. I'm going to try to run the thing from here. Oh, you're going to do it. Okay.

Starting point is 02:26:51 And we'll see how this goes. Yeah, it should work. I don't know. Wait, I can do it. But yeah, thanks for watching, everyone. We'll see you next week. Same bad time, same bad channel. That's what he says.

Starting point is 02:27:01 Bad time? Yeah. Bat time or bad? I think he used to say bat, and he says bad now. I'm pretty sure that's what he says bad time yeah and bat time or bad i think he used to say bat and he says bad now i'm pretty sure that's what's going on that's funny i've detected a change anyways bye see you later you

The WAN Show - We've Made Some Big Mistakes - WAN Show November 18, 2022

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