The WAN Show - Windows On Steam Deck - WAN Show March 11, 2022

Episode Date: March 14, 2022

Get started with DigitalOcean for FREE at https://www.do.co/wanshow2022 Get a 60-day free trial of stress-free shipping by going to https://shipstation.com  Don't forget to click on the microphone at the top of the page and type in WAN Check out the WAN Show & Podcast Gear: https://lmg.gg/podcastgear Check out the They're Just Movies Podcast: https://lmg.gg/tjmpodcast Timestamps: (Courtesy of NoKi1119 --- NOTE: Timestamps may be off due to change in sponsors) 0:00 Chapters 1:02 Intro 1:47 Topic #1 - Windows driver support on Steam Deck 3:36 Discussing LTT videos regarding Steam Deck software 8:02 Pros and cons of Valve providing Windows drivers 11:24 Installation & hardware issues 13:15 General Windows usage 14:36 Performance, compatibility, translation & dual boot 19:54 Issues with SteamOS, HZD aim assist on the Deck 23:54 Steam Deck's acoustic issues, odd device issues 29:18 "Reviewed" Steam games from another company's perspective 34:28 LTTStore's "Bonus Bin" new feature 37:58 Merch Messages #1 38:04 10 GB UniFi gear 41:07 Entry setups in the next decade 43:06 Origin of the "Twitch sucks" viewpoint 44:11 Unboxed Therapy, VPN types, P2P & data encryption 52:58 Calling Dan on costs to get IPv4 addresses 56:28 Topic #2 - "Metaverse" is the new marketing term 58:10 LinusMetaverseGroup, VTubing 1:00:26 Budgeting change within LMG, leaving com bubble 1:03:02 NIBS , metaverse issues & "restaurant" 1:08:38 "Competing" platforms, xkcd summarizing metaverse 1:13:06 Topic #3 - CrossCode in the Ukraine Support Bundle  1:16:34 Sponsors 1:19:42 Topic #4 - Apple's new Mac Studio desktop 1:20:01 Interesting GPU merging by M1 Ultra 1:25:54 Mac Pro is yet to be replaced, models pricing 1:26:35 New 27" standalone display & options 1:27:39 iPhone SE new features, iPad Air with M1 & entertainment 1:29:04 Topic #5 - Artesian Builds shuts down, fires 50 people 1:33:04 Steve responds to the shutdown, aids employees 1:39:16 Topic #6 - AMD first 3D cache Ryzen chip 1:40:28 AMD disabling overclocking on 5800X3D 1:41:28 Topic #7 - Limewire revived and changed 1:42:14 NFT marketplace & roadmap 1:46:01 Merch Messages #2 1:46:07 LTTStore "lifestyle" future merch ideas 1:46:49 Linus discusses Anthony Linux channel 1:51:16 LTTStore "NFT" badge 1:54:46 Strawpoll: is the forum profile picture an NFT 1:58:38 Reason behind limited display brightness 2:00:21 NASA & CSA collaboration idea, viewership issues 2:06:34 Linus despises making ads 2:07:46 Where to start with making content 2:09:28 Linus's most regretful takes & videos 2:12:34 Biggest regret, Computex tradition & different culture 2:15:06 Codes on LTTStore limited CPU Stealth 2:15:56 Replacing Deck's SSD, LTTStore backpack idea 2:17:38 Possible LMG VTubing 2:17:50 LTTStore new staff & talking stock 2:18:22 Tips for small tech content creator 2:19:28 PCPartPicker & TigerDirect 2:20:54 Outro Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode is brought to you by Mazda. When you drive a Mazda, you'll find out why RSUVs won more 2024 IIHS top safety picks than any other brand as of June 2024. Find out what makes Mazda different at Mazda.ca. Okay, I've resumed the selected. Welcome to the WAN Show! Hey! We've got a great show for you guys today, ladies and gentlemen. That's right, this is an episode of a podcast that will not get pulled down by big tech.

I thought you weren't going to bring it up! Because it will not have any misinformation in it. Well, it might have misinformation in it, I can't guarantee that. Lots of great topics this week guys apple's peak performance event product announcements were many and actually exciting uh artesian builds who generated significant controversy last week has formally completely pooped all over itself and the bed and the floor so we're gonna get through that what else we got today We got windows on a steam deck what maybe windows on a steam deck. Yeah, well where what do you look through to see a Door a door a wheel a wheel

Well what one has more? doors or wheels Who knows also LimeWire is back what whoa? Yar har fiddle dee dee, being a pirate is a... Except this time it's worse. Now, this is not fair the ryan the ryan asks in floatplane chat is it a great show if every show is a great show yes yes yeah because it's relative to i don't know what it's relative to i was going to say other shows but i don't know. Other shows are probably better. Let's jump right into our big topic, which is Windows on Steam Deck.

Now, I was actually expecting to get Windows support for the Steam Deck before we did our initial hardware review, right? So that was way back, like over a month ago. I was expecting Windows drivers. And Valve kept saying, oh, we have them, but we can't send them something, something, legal review, something, something, something. Sorry, we can't give them to you. But apparently there were working drivers,

which makes sense because while there was obviously a lot of work to be done by AMD and Valve software teams, particularly, I would think, AMD for something like a closed-source Windows driver. I mean, these were mostly known quantities, right? They're Zen 3 cores, and they're bolted to an RDNA 2 onboard graphics chip rather than a Vega-based graphics chip. But fundamentally, that architecture exists already.

So they're not starting from scratch, right? Like there's a starting point that they have to work from. So I was expecting it to be pretty mature and pretty fleshed out. And I was expecting it to come before our hardware review, where we looked at thermals, our hardware review where we looked at uh we looked at thermals uh we looked at uh performance we looked at acoustics and and pretty much ran all the way through the deck and you know major kudos to valve they did a great job of transparency and allowing us to really fully test it even though we were limited in terms of game selection just because the software really wasn't ready yet and they knew knew that, and that was fine.

But they told us that the Windows drivers were going to come. Like, I didn't just pull that out of thin air. Oh, well, I am expecting Windows drivers because I am a Windows user. It wasn't like that. They told us they were going to come. Give me what I want. Then, in between the hardware review,

so we had the lead-up to the hardware review. So then we published the hardware review. And then in between the publishing of the hardware review, so we had the lead up to the hardware review. So then we published the hardware review. And then in between the publishing of the hardware review and the release of our software review, I was expecting Windows drivers again. And when I shot the software review, it was actually the morning of my family's ski trip to, I don't know what it's called anymore, but it used to be called hemlock mountain and we were going there and basically i had to shoot it then because i kept putting off and putting off and putting off starting the software review because valve kept sending just they kept inundating me with software updates and I was still expecting a Windows driver. So I went and I did like I played on it. I used it.

I did spend a lot of time with it and I wrote down a lot of thoughts. I threw a lot of things at the page, but I couldn't write the video because I couldn't tell the whole story because I hadn't like if they were going to drop a windows driver on me two days before publication i was going to have to have like a big section comparing linux to windows performance for example like if i'm if i'm supposed to say this is the software review it changes the angle of the video right yeah what i'm going to cover in it so i ended up staying up until 7 30 in the morning and then i only slept for about two hours and then i went i met a camera crew at like the new house because that's where they were set up doing some sponsored thing for telus already anyway

shot the a-roll and then drove to the mountain afterward because i had to leave it to the very last second. So again, there was a period of time when I was expecting windows drivers. Well, they finally arrived this week, like yesterday. And naturally we dropped absolutely everything and immediately set to work testing them. And I got to tell you,

you guys are going to want to watch the full video because the exact numbers matter. And I, I don't remember you guys are going to want to watch the full video because the exact numbers matter. And I don't remember everything off the top of my head. But Anthony and I had a really good meeting about sort of what we want the scope of this video to be, because I don't think that. state they're in i don't want to invest too much time investigating the performance differences between the in between the nvidia the nvidia between the linux and the windows drivers oh my okay yeah so uh we had a really good chat about what we want the scope of the video to be. And man, did we ever find a ton of interesting stuff going on almost immediately. And then also we had a really, we sat down, we did a full script review.

We almost never get to like sit down and talk to Anthony about stuff anymore because he hosts so many of the videos that he writes now instead of me editing and me hosting them so it was actually really nice to say because we often will just chat about stuff and and I feel like we end up with regardless of whether it's me who reviews it I think we end up with a better script a better video if a second pair of eyes looks at it and starts to you know ask those questions right that someone right? That someone, sometimes you're just, you got your nose buried in it. When your folks want it for too long, there's certain questions that you've had answered for so long that you don't really think about it anymore.

Or you take something for granted. One of our new writers came in talking to me about a video that we were doing about whether it matters if your GPU is still getting drivers. So we took drivers that have been unsupported for, in some cases, years. Yeah. And tried to run very new games on them to see, well, just how far does DirectX get you? You know, can you just limp along and probably have compatibility or do you need a game ready driver? Right. And really interesting findings. But we went into this whole explanation without having any kind of paragraph outlining like a prepper what is direct

x yeah or something like that i can't remember if it was exactly that but we were we were missing some key piece of information like hey you actually can't take that for granted this could be something that you know uh some young kid just getting into pc gaming watches and we need to give them at least okay it might be a little jargony but we need to give them at least okay it might be a little jargony but we need to give them at least a basic explanation of what purpose this serves before we can we can move past it so anyway i sat down with anthony and and we talked through it and boy is it ever a mixed bag so first up good guy Valve providing Windows drivers. Sure, yeah, yeah.

They could have just as easily not done it. In fact, it would have been a lot less work for them and AMD because you got to remember, even though these are Zen 3 CPU cores and RDNA 2 based GPU cores, they are bolted together, glued together in a custom SOC. This is a custom chip. So there is absolutely extra work that needed to be done. Compounding matters is that aside from being a custom chip, it has, at least in the PC space, from my experience, pretty unique um system architecture it doesn't have main system memory

and gpu memory right which is normal for an integrated gpu but with an integrated gpu at this kind of performance level were there unique challenges presumably Presumably these are challenges AMD is probably going to have to face as they move into their upcoming RDNA 2-based APUs. Yes, but definitely they could have saved themselves some work and they could have kicked some work down the road, but absolutely. Also, as soon as Valve provides a driver, they will start receiving support tickets and even if even if every message they get about running windows on the steam deck they just send back a canned response that says we don't support windows on the steam deck which is their formal stance right they have provided these drivers but it is not a supported

use case it is still creating extra busy work for valve corporation oh for sure absolutely and from our experience with it it could create more support tickets than less. So there's a few things to keep in mind. One is that not all drivers are available. First and foremost, the Wi-Fi drivers are not baked into Windows. Actually, no. First and foremost, you will not be running the latest version of Windows. Support for the FTPM, so the the trusted platform module that is required for windows 11

is not baked into the firmware yet i don't want windows 11 anyways so you cannot well remember this is a touchscreen device windows 11 has a lot of improvements for touchscreen devices that's fair yeah so you might want Windows 11, whether you are correct or not. That's a whole separate conversation that we're not going to get into today. But so first and foremost, you can't install the latest version of Windows. So you are stuck with Windows 10, for better or for worse. Second of all, when you install Windows, you're going to have to go get some kind of network adapter or something. Because I don't know if you've had this experience but windows installers recently have stopped allowing you to go to proceed past the setup

phase unless you have an internet connection and unless you sign into a microsoft account there are workarounds to be clear yeah but for most people like for the is a console that's the way we have to be fair i don't think if you're looking at it from the perspective of a console gamer i don't think they're going to install windows that's too much of an advanced move unless there's a game they like really want to play and they find a super basic tutorial to get them through it they might if it's a super basic tutorial it would probably include this portion though it might include it but you might have to go out and buy one yeah unless you already have a type c to ethernet adapter for your switch for example or something like that so you may have to go out and

get some other network adapter because the onboard wi-fi module is does not have support baked into windows yeah so you'll need a network connection in order to get a network connection i'm so surprised this networking device did not have support baked into windows i know right okay once you're in windows you can install wi-fi drivers bluetooth works which is great valve does not have an audio driver yet for the onboard speakers or for the three and a half mil jack they are working on that. That's coming. And then there were also some other devices in Device Manager that just were still yellow exclamation marks.

We don't know exactly what they were. What they were, yeah. Yeah. Did you try all the different input types and everything? Okay. Well, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We tried Bluetooth and USB-C, and they were both fine.

Thumbsticks, pads on the back. So, Windows navigation on the Steam Deck? Oh, boy. Not great. Okay, yeah. Because the default behavior for the Steam Deck is A is enter, B is escape. And the ability for applications okay so first of all Valve did

Valve does allow a Steam controller to be used as like a joystick to mouse device so you can actually use it to move the mouse around and remember trackpads so you can actually move the mouse around with the trackpad except when it stops right and if you close steam then

is it the trackpad no the trackpad still works but the joystick input stops working for the mouse or something like that but if you have steam open in the background so you can use the joystick or whatever and you go to open software like RetroArch, which has controller support. RetroArch will not grab the controller properly. It's being used. So what happens is even trying to do something as simple as navigating the menu in RetroArch,

you try to go back. You try to just like go back a couple of menus, escape, escape, RetroArch is closed. Oh no. Nice. So it's pretty freaking rough. It's pretty rough right now. And I haven't even gotten to game performance.

My expectation was that compatibility, we didn't test a really broad set of games because quite frankly, I don't feel there was a ton to be learned from that. Like, yeah, game compatibility is going to be more Windows-y. So if there's anti-cheat software that doesn't run in Linux or that the developer intentionally prevents from running on Linux,

because realistically that's what most of it is these days as far as we can tell if if there's it's either prevents or it's they haven't taken the action to allow it yeah so uh you know whether it's anti-cheat or whether it's just games that proton or what's it called steam play now i think so i forget steam play hasn't caught up to um game compatibility is going to be better but performance well i was expecting it to be i was expecting it to trade blows because we've looked at this before we've run into situations where linux underperforms windows because trans translation can have a cost we've run run into situations where the translation has a cost, but Linux is also just lighter,

and you end up with them canceling each other out, you get performance parity. And we've even seen situations where the drivers on Linux are better than the proprietary drivers that exist on Windows, and Linux actually manages to squeeze more out of the hardware than Windows. But there tends to be like that back and forth. On the Steam Deck, it was just annihilation in all the titles we tested. Like Linux just ran away from Windows. And some of this we expected, like Elden Ring, for example, Valve has put work specifically into fixing uh I think it's some kind of um uh oh man like texture optimization thing that they've done uh what is it compiling shaders

and this was like a big issue on Windows to the point where people were saying it was like almost unplayable huge issue on Windows um and so so what valve has actually done it's kind of insane is they've taken a feature that um the elden ring developers should have implemented in direct x and they've hacked it in as part of the direct x to vulcan translation very funny and a moving out the game big move because elden ring's freaking huge right now shader yeah shader cache okay um i knew it was something to do so what's crazy about it elden ring is so bad that it's it's not it's not as simple as just seeing a new asset and waiting for it to compile you can even stand in one room and spin around and it'll stutter constantly because it's just not caching them so right yeah now i now i remember to be clear

elden ring itself is not bad um i haven't played it yet i actually i started verizon zero dawn on my recent trip and so i've been making my way through that i have new thoughts on that by the way i can talk about that more later on the show but i'm done now so i've seen you launching i keep on wanting to ask you to play halo but i'm like like, he can't. I can't play Halo. I'm playing, I'm Steam Deck only right now, man. I honestly, I have used it almost zero as a desktop though, because I have, I said it's not for work and almost all of my desktop computer usage has been work. So I'm just happily gaming on my Steam Deck, sort of.

I'm going to talk about that later. So it was, it was a bloodbath though which really surprised me because on paper the rdna2 graphics on the steam deck were terrifying for competitors who are stuck with vega graphics right yeah on their own windows-based handhelds but then those guys have windows-based handhelds but But the thing is that if the Steam Deck was performing up to its expectations, though, it should be better than those Windows-first handhelds running last-generation GPU technology.

That might be interesting, because that might actually keep a space carved out for those other devices because if like i don't know valve is gonna make it better well the thing is it's a proprietary driver so should it mostly be down to amd to make it better in that case though i don't know if amd has much pressure on them from valve yeah maybe amd has very little motivation to make these anything other than usable if they're straight up saying like we are not supporting this then what what's the what's the pressure on them to support it better you know what i mean yeah so

like nothing it might just not get better and if so then then at least those other devices have a space which is kind of cool yeah and valve has said that when the full steam os 3.0 installer launches they will have support for dual booting so maybe that's just a price they're willing to pay there will be a performance hit but you can have compatibility but we took the safest possible path for everything rather than pushing the performance to the bleeding edge because we expect you to do the vast majority of your gaming in steam os yeah having the ability to do a boot on there would be sweet actually now i have uh we get into this in a bit more detail on in the video so you'll you'll still have to watch it haha got him but i want to talk about doing the majority of your

gaming on steam os a little bit actually no first i'm going to talk about doing the majority of your gaming on SteamOS a little bit. Actually, no. First, I'm going to talk about how there are other interface issues with the Steam Deck, like the fact that it doesn't have a task manager or a control-alt-delete button. The quick access menu button doesn't do anything. It doesn't have a task manager? What do you mean? Like it doesn't have a task manager button.

Oh, okay. So if you're like stuck in a full-screen application and it hangs... Just turn it off. Your SOL. Plug it. Go find a keyboard. Plug it in and press control alt delete. Like you're stuck.

A lot of the Windows handhelds will have a show desktop button or something. Or like Aya has a software interface that you can bring up to slide over top of full screen apps. And you can assign. Some way to force yourself out. Exactly. Exactly. Like it's it's made to compensate for windows right so the one not built for windows doesn't have that

system yeah exactly you're you're gonna have these problems so we're ready for you right all right which isn't to say that running steam os on a Steam Deck is necessarily a flawless victory, you know, perfect experience. Yeah. Horizon Zero Dawn is a verified title on the Steam Deck. And man, I was blown away. I think I'm running at medium 800p, like 1280 by 800, getting like solid 30 fps uh playable you know playable i ran into a weird issue where like aim assist is enabled but i swear it's not working like i as far as i can tell and that game i think i talked last week about how tedious a lot of the encounters were, okay, if you don't hit the exact weak points on these fast-moving enemies, it can be like a controller snapper

in terms of difficulty. You really don't want to snap that controller. Yeah, right. And I think a big part of the problem is that my auto-aim was not doing anything, which raises some questions that might make sense because i know you brought that up and i remember thinking like i don't think i really had a lot of trouble with that but yeah it's probably because the aim assist it's probably

because something about the steam deck or the steam controller is showing up differently to a normal like x input input device or something like that so that's interesting uh defiance says horizon zero dawn is not a hard game linus tell you what you go play it you go fight a thunder whatever a thunder jaw with a controller with no aim assist i'll wait i actually i got significantly better i was playing doom eternal as part of a another video today you're so much and i'm like way better with the controller now after spending like 25 hours in horizon zero dawn that makes sense i like people keyboard and mouse people talk all the time about how aim assist is like cheating and it's like okay there's maybe some arguments there but using a controller without aim assist is just horrible yes so like i yeah you gotta have it on yeah thunder jaws aren't that hard

actually i i know it's no problem if you can start knocking off components and if i was on a mouse and keyboard it would be a non-issue the The problem is that I'm on a controller. And any controller is going to have subtle dead zones. So when you're like leaping for bullet time and trying to like make that really small adjustment for that you like jumped, yeah, it can be very frustrating. Anyway, where was I going with this?

Right, the first five hours of the game though solid 30 fps great experience you get you know the noise bothers me more than it did in the review the just the whine of the fan like yvonne was even asking about it i'm sitting there in bed playing horizon zero dawn and she's like what's that noise yeah it's the steam deck fan um i spent most of my time pre-software review with earphones in but i've actually been using speakers with it now more just because circumstances have dictated that that's been that's been sensible and i'm finding the i'm finding the fan kind of annoying basically under half volume it's pretty overpowering after about five hours in i started getting all manner of weird issues and i didn't

think to whip out a camera and record any of it unfortunately so anthony has asked me to replicate it and the the good and bad news is that it's going to be real easy because at first i started running into these issues like after two continuous hours of gameplay where i would get stuttering down to like one fps yikes for 10 30 seconds at a time and then it would like like like catch up oh it does the like fast forward thing a little bit not quite okay yeah especially if it was a cut scene it would be like but like not all the time was accounted for it was very strange right yeah like I wouldn't miss anything, even if it was only a short, I don't know.

Yeah. Super weird. Okay. Uh, I saw, I saw game crashes, just hard crash, hard crash back to,

back to steam interface. I even saw black screen device, unresponsive steam button does nothing. Quick access menu does nothing long press power button full reboot is the only way to solve it and the problem for me is that those as i got into the late game started to come up every 20 minutes or so which is pretty bad everything from worse stutters to completely game-breaking like progress losing issues those are the worst was happening so frequently that i mean i told anthony because he hadn't had that experience he He only has benchmarked Steam Deck so far.

So I was I was contributing that to to our video today. And I told Anthony, like, it's I have gotten more game crashes in my playthrough of Horizon Zero Dawn than I've probably had with every game all combined in the last five years. Yeah. Like I get so many crashes. And again, this is, and I know you're reviewing the Steam Deck and this is a verified title and all that kind of stuff, but this is why I stopped playing it on PC. Really?

Oh, so you had a lot of crashes in that game on? Yes. Didn't they mostly fix that though? Maybe. Got it. I've heard that they have from the community. I have not gone back and tried it since um i will at some point because i really want to eventually like beat that game but um

yeah it was crashing so hard on me on windows that i just like refused to keep playing because i kept on losing progress and that just rose oh that i hate that it's i think everybody does absolutely hate that uh someone said 25 hours is not late game, LMAO. For the first five to eight, I was doing a lot of the side quests, but honestly, I figured out what was bothering me

about the game so much. They've built this incredible world. They've done all this world building, and it's populated with all of these Muppets. Yeah. Like almost everyone you talk to. Like if you turn off the quest indicator that just takes you straight to the person

you're supposed to talk to, you've got all these unique looking people that just repeat the same dozen pre-baked, I'm sorry, I have nothing to talk to you about right now. So not having that indicator on is just an utter waste of time so it it's this enormous world full of all these settlements and cities that has absolutely no life it has a little bit of uh first game in a series syndrome uh like i used to talk about this with assassin's creed a

fair amount where the first assassin's creed game is like a really cool uh proof of concept right there's a lot of things that are like yep that should be a lot better or a lot more fleshed out or whatever and then you get assassin's creed 2 and it's like okay sweet here we go this is what we actually wanted um and i have a feeling that uh forbidden west like i've heard from a lot of people that these types of problems that you're that you're mentioning are fixed or better in in forbidden west um so i i think it's i think it's a lot of like they built this massive new world it's a it's a similar game to some other games but they do they do a fair amount of things uniquely and it's a new ip and all this kind of stuff so certain things are not really all that fleshed out so So after that first like five to eight hours, I just got really bored of samey side quests

and realized that you don't need to grind at all because there's almost zero leveling up progression anyway. So I just started chasing the main quest. That's a weird problem with modern games. Some modern games, if you don't do the side quests, you're just like screwed. Yeah. And then you have to go back and do side quests,

which feels horrible. And then there's other games where you don't have to do side quests at all and they like kind of aren't very good because they weren't designed for you to do all of them so then you're like oh this sucks when you should have been doing the main quest it's yeah it's kind of weird ran into that a few times recently so i have experienced a ton of instability and it really raises questions for me about the qc that's going into verified games right because i have no doubt that if i was sony right i would be not that happy to have you know my name flash up as a splash screen on this verified title on some verified console like you think about how

defensive companies are of their image yeah i mean the this verified badge horizon zeroed on on windows when it was just like a broken piece of trash that's fair but they fixed it apparently maybe yeah yeah people in the chat are saying yeah it was a joke at launch but it's been it's been good i played it recently and it was fine okay um so i so there's definitely sensitivity around your product yeah being badged as works perfectly by someone else and then it doesn't and then you're kind of going okay because it's absolutely, they will get messages about it. Oh, for sure.

Hey, why is your game such a crashy, buggy mess on Steam Deck? It's verified. What did you guys do? Yeah. Someone will. Yeah. And I just, I feel like,

I feel like with how many titles Valve is verifying, they might be going a little YOLO and a little rubber stampy because my experience with Horizon Zero Dawn was that I went five hours in with not a single hiccup and then after that it basically got worse and worse and worse and worse and worse they probably didn't you know test it all that much so they probably didn't like never mind play testing it they probably didn't play the whole game yeah and you can't you can't expect it's a fair amount to ask yeah you can't expect you know 20 hours in every game or even 10 hours in every game uh

for valve to just you know be a charity and contribute that time to third-party developers titles i was just gonna say now you have like whole game studio level QA departments just sitting there and playing right that's a weird thing for valve to hire at this point except maybe they should are they a console manufacturer now but I don't think console manufacturers do that that's on the game developers I'm sure they contribute some QA on their own I mean Nintendo made the uh like nvidia style where they like inject employees into companies and stuff oh i'm i'm a hundred percent sure that they contribute to qa sure yeah yeah very interesting so i'm i'm antsy for mine dude i still don't have an email you can put windows on the steam deck but right now we right now for a variety of reasons it looks like an utterly terrible idea which i think i think you nailed it earlier when you said well the silver

lining i guess is this creates a small opening for those smaller companies that are trying to compete in the handheld pc space hopefully actually that small opening is bigger than what already existed before the steam deck came into play because steam deck is bringing so many eyes onto this medium because i think a ton of people didn't know or if you saw one you'd think it was just a gimmick yeah but now there's like this main line thing adding a bunch of legitimacy to the space. And if you're like, okay, yeah, but the game that I want to play is Halo Infinite or something that isn't on Linux.

And then you see, oh, there's a Windows option that actually looks fairly highly reviewed. Yeah, maybe they'll get it. Yeah, it could be. I mean, actually, I haven't checked. INEO Next, I haven't checked in on their Indiegogo. And I haven't heard from the i haven't heard from the ceo lately they've uh they've got 382 backers and they raised three

quarters uh 700 000 canadians so that's about 550 us just over a half a million dollars us so yeah not bad not bad i mean i guarantee you it's not steam deck numbers but it's not bad uh chino chibi says nintendo seal of quality is worthless i think it is now but when they used to be primo when they first introduced it it was a big deal it was one of the things that nintendo did to set themselves apart from just the gaming crash that took place before the nes took hold uh which was to keep low quality repetitive crappy games off of their platform they even uh they even enforced a limit to how many games a publisher was allowed to submit per year just to ensure that they wouldn't just shart out more games yeah yeah try to make it up in volume you know and they would even it wasn't even just technical

validation they would even offer gameplay suggestions say like hey you should do this and you should do that if you if you want the game to be better it used to be really intense yeah yeah i that i don't know talk about it like pretty often yeah i haven't heard it brought up in forever i don't know anything about it now yeah me neither uh we should probably bring up merch messages as well as the new feature yeah that we are launching on ltt store so we don't have any new products this week so still the cable ties that we talked about last week lots of different colors these are actually selling really really well they're a way better deal than they used to be and there's a ton more variety also eco-friendly packaging but love the packaging what we're doing this week is announcing actually you know what luke you should announce it because your team worked on this it's the bonus

bin made by the same guy that made merch messages which makes sense uh but if you add something to cart uh you can now see the bonus bin i'm sharing thing at the top oh yep okay sweet um and there's a kind of what is going to be a rotating set of things that you can decide individually uh to add to your cart for free in the past i believe you guys had sticker packs yep um now there's two different sticker packs the 2021 one or the 2022 one and the gpu wasteland postcard um the postcards currently says post dot dot dot so we should probably have some word wrap there or something but um yeah it's there it's cool uh we're like i said we're gonna add some rotating stuff in the

future so there'll be new things that show up here um and you don't have to add it if you don't want it but it's just a cool little thing that you get for free there's stuff in here uh and there's stuff planned to be in here in the future that are like not necessarily cheap from some people um like yeah we're gonna talk about having pins and stuff yeah pins are like that's not a small item so yeah maybe check out the bonus i can tell you they don't cost much so anyone who's charging you a ton of money for a pin is i see them go for like 15 bucks i'm not into pins but there's people that like collect like tons of pins i don't know i don't know um but yeah i mean i'll happily charge 15 for them do you guys do you guys want them in the bonus bin or should i charge 15 for them because i'm down i'm down i can tell you there's a lot of margin in it at $15.

I bet. I just know I've seen it for like around that amount. But yeah, bonus bin, super cool. Check it out. I would strongly encourage you guys to do the GPU Wasteland postcard and then send it to us. Our address is on Google Maps.

And the idea is that if people get these color them or otherwise decorate them and then send them back to us we want to decorate a wall in the new creator warehouse space with these gpu wasteland postcards so we can all remember the glory days of 2020 to 2022. Maybe glory is not the right word. Yeah, I was going to say, that's a little, you know. The gory days. Hey, there you go. But yeah, it should be good. $15.

Let's go for $50. Indeed. Indubitably. You should make like one like pure gold pin yeah we'll make it a loot box so you won't know yeah you won't know if you're gonna get like a a tin one or a gold one people jokingly bring up in float plane meetings every once in a while that we should have loot boxes for emotes. So it's just a random emote. Which is horrible. Just completely terrible.

But yeah. Why don't we talk about Apple's peak performance event? Well, should we do a couple of merch messages? Oh, sure. Yeah. Some curated ones. Hi, Linus. I have to get all new network gear for my house.

Long story. And we'll soon get 10 gig internet. Really? That's intense. Okay. That's really intense. I'm considering Ubiquiti's UniFi ecosystem. Do you have any gripes or regrets with your system? Are there any alternatives you'd recommend? We've been pretty happy with Unify Gear at the office here, and that includes everything from their access points to their switches. We have definitely run into some speed bumps,

but it should be noted that apparently the square APs that I got way back in the day were just notoriously awful. They were like the worst product Ubity ever made and so the fact that i that was my first unify experience was i picked up three of those and tried to you know do up my house and it was just it was it was terrible i remember that and i ended up going ruckus after the fact um so i've had some bad experiences but a lot of it has been caused by us often using early access unified gear where the hardware is baked but the software is not done yet so yes we've run into issues but man when you want bang for the buck prosumer network gear what would you i mean what would you compare it to you pretty

much kind of come down to ubiquity yeah microtech is pretty sick if you're if you want to get down and dirty and you want to you want to get nerdy and um other than that like what like most of the big guys these days want subscription fees for everything and ubiquity is still providing a lot of the same software and monitoring and tools but there's no subscription you just buy the hardware and you get access to that so yeah i would say i would say ubiquity is a is a an 8.75 out of 10 recommend from me we actually just rolled some new ubiquity gear between here and one of the new satellite offices. Right.

We were up on the roof. Okay. But we are getting a greater than gigabit speeds between the two and sub one millisecond latency accessing machines that are in a completely different building on the same land that's so we don't get any of the security and overhead issues involved in doing like a vpn from one location to the next no like no no encryption overhead is this a static installation like you're leaving it there? Yeah.

Oh, that's sweet. Just straight over the air. That's really cool. Yeah, I'm really excited. That's awesome. Super cool. Oh, what am I looking at here? Oh, click to view more.

Oh, there's a new interface here. Oh, Landon. Everything including gaming hardware is getting more expensive fast, with things like Steam Deck and laptops getting more and more powerful. What does an entry-level setup look like in 5 to 10 years? Will gaming desktops eventually die out? I mean, that was part of the idea behind me daily driving the Steam Deck for a month, was to find out, is this handheld, which realistically has hardware in it that would have been gaming

laptop grade only a few short years ago good enough to daily drive i think are we already there i think even if it's just for one day like it's a portable device you should use it at work as your work computer yeah it's just a lot of software crap to figure out to use for one day that's probably fair i just i feel like have you done like any actual personal computing on it has it just been games i've only gamed yeah like i feel like you're gonna get to the end of this and have done no personal computing and that's like a pretty important part of well what's my boss gonna do get mad at me? I just mean, I'll just extend the video.

I'll extend the challenge another 30 days and I'll like force myself to do it if I feel like it. Okay, don't do that because you got to come back and play Halo at some point. You've seen how stuck on Horizon Zero Dawn I've been lately. Yeah. I'm like constantly in there. Yeah. And I feel left out because every time I'm on Steam,

the bottom right hand... Kaltain is playing Elden Ring, Burntbanana is playing Elden Ring. Everyone's just, I haven't played it yet, everyone's just playing Elden Ring. Everyone's playing Elden Ring and I'm like I picked I picked completely the not trendy open-world game to play. No! I have no idea what I'm doing. Oh man. But yeah I think it's entirely possible at the price of the Steam Deck. It's the best computer you can buy for $400. Hands down.

Oh, yeah. I'd say go for it. Absolutely. Especially because you can't even get a desktop computer with a GPU in it for $400. Yeah. Hey Linus, asks Joshua, how did the Twitch chat is awful things start and why be so mean to twitch viewers well that's actually a really interesting story and to answer it we kind of have to go way back to before it was twitch tv we have to go all the way back to when it was justin.tv and rather

than being a game focus site it was actually actually more focused on bootleg live shows and sporting events. And pretty much everyone was toxic and awful. And I made the astute observation that as a community, they are toxic and awful. And they never changed. Nice. Yeah. Yeah. Twitch chat, I i love you you're awful yeah that's a really good i i love you you're awful is a wonderful way of saying that twitch prime by the way uh also any updates on backpack screwdriver or short circuit hoodie no i have no updates other than soon soon i will do one more and then let's jump into the apple event

no idea how to pronounce that been watching for years love your hot takes oh thanks what do you think about hardware vpns slash decentralized vpns saw a video from unbox therapy and i'm not sure about the privacy aspect ah yes i saw that video from unbox therapy as well and it's something that's been on our radar basically what it is is the idea that i think i pitched to you on wanshow at some point i either pitched it to you on wanshow or I've talked about it internally. Like, oh, wouldn't that be a really cool way to do a VPN where basically everyone is, it's kind of like how, yeah, everyone's a node.

And it's kind of like how Windows is, Windows, it's kind of like how Microsoft is rolling Windows updates now, where you contribute to the network to make sure that you know okay say luke and i live in the same apartment building rather than him downloading off of a microsoft server in redmond obviously that's not typically how it would be that microsoft would have the files cached on a data center closer to luke but rather than pulling the files out of a data center he would just grab them in as few hops as possible from a

newer node like me in order to accelerate download speeds, as well as reduce latency and overall internet congestion. It's actually like a win-win-win to have multiple nodes for downloads rather than centralized servers in some cases. Like we've seen situations where a major gaming launch has dragged the internet down to a crawl. And that wouldn't have necessarily had to happen with a decentralized file distribution system like BitTorrent, for example. So the product that Lou was taking a look at was pretty much the idea that I had talked about before, where instead of being for file distribution, these nodes were for internet access from that

location. What's really cool about this approach is that by contributing a little bit of your bandwidth, and many people have unlimited data plans these days, by contributing some of your bandwidth and some of your both download and upload speed, right? Because the traffic has to come all the way through. You are gaining access to other users in other regions who are contributing their bandwidth to you so that you can access services and websites as though you are from that region, just like

a VPN would. But what gives it a big advantage over a traditional VPN is that service providers are constantly trying to block VPNs from accessing their services. And there's a hundred reasons that might exist for this, whether it's authoritarian regimes that don't want access to outside information coming across their borders, or whether it's companies that have complicated licensing agreements that allow them to display content in one country, but not in another country because the internet doesn't exist in their worldview. There are lots of reasons why they will aggressively pursue these users who are accessing

their content from another region because in some cases it can open them up to serious legal liability if they are found to be not doing their due diligence to enforce the terms of their license and so there's this constant game of whack-a-mole where vpn providers are trying to find ways to use safe non-blocked ips that are registered to that region and service providers are trying to find ways to play whack-a-mole and ban ip blocks that are associated with these vpn services and it's at the point now where a company like shadow tech you remember shadow tech? They had gaming servers in data centers. I don't know if they're still doing it, but they were for a while anyway,

and then they had a whole insolvency thing. But ShadowTech had the challenge of trying to find a way to get their, like they actually had to work through services like Netflix to get their IP blocks unbanned because it got to the point where service providers just basically said, okay, we're just going to just block list every IP that's associated with a data center because any commercial VPN service that is running out of a data center is going to commercial VPN service that is running out of a data center is going to be on these IP blocks. And really, there's no reason that, you know, some cloud

server for some infrastructure is going to need to watch movies on Netflix anyway. So the fact that there were consumers using these data center IPs was a challenge that they had to solve. And it was as simple as getting Netflix to to allow them they were just they just had to demonstrate that it was not inordinate use coming through this ip which is pretty trivial for them to detect okay you know five people or whatever the amount they allow per account could not possibly be watching this much bridgerton or whatever right um and where was i going with this right right right so the advantage is that by having all of these nodes it becomes extremely difficult to play that game of whack-a-mole efficiently right to just mass ban anything that could possibly be associated with a commercial service and move on to the next

thing and because theoretically if the network gets large enough that traffic could be spread out so much it would be it would be really hard for them to even detect it through like a brute force method like looking at how much use is coming through it and and blocking that ip now they could get aggressive and start trying to to to block everything that they suspect is a multiple user but they'd end up irking a lot of customers and now that netflix charges so much you don't want to you don't want to create friction with your legitimate paying customer right so any overly aggressive attempt to curb undesirable behaviors like hosting a vpn that other users are tunneling through runs the risk of causing people to cancel your service which doesn't look great on your you know quarterly revenue reports because you're a public company

right i mean there's a lot of places where there isn't really isp competition that's that's fair especially in the states but But I meant for Netflix. People could cancel that service. And that's not a good look. Yeah. Winter says, just use a PIA static IP and generate a new one each month.

That service that PIA offers, does it cost more? I can't remember. But that service that PIA offers is difficult to maintain finding new especially ipv4 ips these days it's not well it's easy but it's not cheap is what i will is what i will say about that i don't know there's there's so the downside. All of your internet traffic is going through some midpoint that you do not control. Kind of same vice versa on that coin.

Theoretically, theoretically, you are encrypting it before it goes through. you are encrypting it before it goes through but my understanding is that there's no way to encrypt what comes back to you yeah um yeah i mean almost everything is https now like it's there's still some that isn't though you're right especially like government websites which i find very funny um low level like uh municipal government websites i find a lot of them kind of still aren't um i don't know i i've read some stuff that apparently like certain uh what are they called deeper or whatever uh deeper network apparently i don't know i've read some stuff that apparently like certain, uh, what are they called? Deeper or whatever, uh, deeper network. Apparently, I don't know. I've read some stuff on this. I, I wasn't prepared for this topic, so I'm sorry. Um, but I've read that they're, they're looking to

being more open about certain things. Not that they've necessarily been notably closed off about certain things, but they're, they're interested in being more open about certain things like it's it i don't know it could be very interesting it's a little sketch though in my opinion i'm gonna maybe invite a surprise guest to the show let's see if he picks up uh hey dan you're um wait i forget is it dan or danny dan's good great um you're on the wan show so you're you're live right now i was talking about how IPv4 addresses are getting, I won't say difficult to obtain, but certainly expensive to obtain. And we've had some people in the chat kind of saying, well, they can't be that expensive. You know, surely, you know, you could afford them easily, Linus.

But I remember the last time I talked to you about this being just utterly blown away by how expensive it was for a block of IPv4 addresses. And I was wondering if you'd be willing to kind of give us the latest on that. Yeah, it's about 50 bucks US and IP right now, buying in bulk per IP. And that's up from a year ago about 24 and that's that's you know finite resource rapidly depleted and the price is raising by almost 100 a year so you're saying that if i wanted to invest instead of vancouver real estate i should actually buy ipv4 addresses you could you'd have to get an asn and you know be an isp and then get a RIN to let you have an allocation. And then you could go buy them, but you could do that.

Okay, but you'd sort that out for me, right? Sure. Okay, all right. All right, cool. Thanks, Dan. Good chat. I guess we haven't talked in a long time, but that means the service is working well, so that's a good thing. Yeah, good to hear. No problem, Linus. All right, talk to you later, man. Yeah, have a good one um yeah good to hear no problem all right talk to you later man yeah have a good one okay bye um that that's itell our isp is amazing um i don't know if everyone

gets the same kind of service but i can literally call up their cto pretty much whatever i want and ask them stuff uh so they've they've helped us do some really really cool stuff with our connection we pay dearly for the service yeah uh and i'm not sure how much sense it's going to make forever hopefully he doesn't watch this because telus now has two and a half gig residential connections just like bond a couple of those probably fine but anyway the point is yeah 50 freaking bucks yeah we have to get ips for flow plane right so it's a lot of freaking money yeah and that's bulk yeah do you oh do you know how much we pay for floatplane because we're buying at much lower volumes than them uh i mean i could figure it out yeah it's okay don't don't

worry too much about it though but um oh crap what was i gonna say yeah just everything's getting worse like you you know we're working on the the infrastructure 2.0 stuff servers that we want to get for that like when we first started working with ovh you probably even remember this i would procure a server and it would be up in like minutes super fast some of the stuff that we're getting now is like we're getting them to customize the hardware and stuff so yeah that's gonna take a moment longer yeah but like you expect okay maybe you know tomorrow or something right now it's like hmm not sure might be done by the end of the month yeah like oh man all right like everything in that space is just getting so rough it makes sense though with like i mean we've had chip shortage for going on for so long now and so many things are going online and the online space is just

massively exploding as it has been for years so yeah i don't know it's interesting how much the internet has changed even in the last 10 years because like yeah sure it's existed but the amount the the degree to which it's ubiquitous at this point is... It's Web 3.0 now. It's the metaverse. Have we talked about this on the show? How painful is it for you? Someone who participated in WoW Classic.

Like, WoW Vanilla. I shouldn't say classic. I should say WoW Vanilla. Sure, the first one. Like, in a big way in the community of wow vanilla how painful is it for you to have what you did and lived through over 10 years ago co-opted into a marketing term that for something that makes no sense and it's been driving me nuts i i don't know if we've

talked about this too much i know i think i brought up on wanshow before but what is it i don't know it's not anything how are you are you just talking about this you're like oh yeah we're gonna work on the metaverse what is it what's the metaverse because it's not one thing that's been the crazy thing for me like yeah facebook is making something sure but not everyone's just going to use facebook's thing so then it's not one thing then like what what are you doing oh man it's driving me nuts there's no like centralized one service and no one's ever going to be wants to be it it's not going to happen and no one's ever going to be cool with that you think microsoft's just going to be chill that like

facebook owns the entire metaverse no that's not going to happen i just god's been driving me so nuts oh there's like there's no there's there's one buzzword and no plan at all. But there's so much money being poured into this thing that just doesn't... We should just change our name to Linus Metaverse Group. I mean, you could. And then go IPO.

Be like, yeah, we're working on educational content for the metaverse. First, we had text. Then we the metaverse first we had text then we had pictures then we had video in the future we'll have lmg content whatever you want to call it yeah you got to call it something yeah it's like choose it's choose your own adventure information delivery in the metaverse never been done before yeah yeah we should do it we should totally do it so we we do we do like we do um uh uh what are what are they called uh vtuber we do vtuber linus okay yes and we do like uh because because you can totally do this with animation software you record the voiceover and it just automatically

syncs the gum flapping yeah yeah yeah um i honestly i i've talked i've talked about this before if i was smart okay i would be vtuber transitioning now so it's a video but like the whole background is transparency so it's you're you you host it on like a green screen but it's a vtuber so whatever but everything other than the vtuber is a green screen yeah and the green screen is just what's actually in front of you. So when you're wearing AR glasses, you just have, like, the little VTuber in the corner.

Yeah. And Metaverse Linus sits and, like, talks to you about... And then we build a software team, like an AI, machine learning

software team, so that you can ask for tech tips. And Metaverse Linus will give you tech tips. And it's basically bonsai buddy. And you can, or like Microsoft paperclip. So you can have like, what's that, what's that burger place in Taiwan that you don't like? Mossburger? Oh, it's disgusting. Okay. So you

can have it so that when you're walking around with your AR glasses, what do you think of this restaurant? And you look at Mossburger, and Linus can be like, it's not good. You shouldn't go there, because blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Metaverse, Linus. Boom, Linus Meta Group. Oh, man.

I'm ready. What? Metaverse. I'm so ready. Well, it doesn't matter, because you just raise VC money from people who have so much money that making more of it is just a game. Like, I remember when we reached a point in our business, and I still don't behave like this personally, but when it comes to the business, we reached a point where our budgeting changed.

When we started out, our budgeting was based on how many dollars and cents we have in our bank account. That was how we budgeted. And at some point, it changed. And it changed to Ks. We stopped talking in terms of dollars, and we started talking in terms of Ks. Okay, this new salary is going to be this many Ks. And the expected ROI... I know there's more stages. You go to Ms. We're not going to Ms this many Ks. And the expected ROI- I know there's more stages.

You go to M's. We're not going to M's. I can tell you that, Luke. I'm just saying, some people do. Actually, we do have some M-level projects. Yeah. We're not going to get there though. We're a Ks-driven company.

So we reached a point where it started to become, okay, this is the outlay in Ks and this is the expected return in Ks over some period of time X. And that started to be how we thought about things. And for your VCs, where it's just, you don't actually think about anything in terms of whether you can afford it or not. You're just thinking about it in terms of whether you can afford it or not you're just thinking about it in terms of m's and percentage uplift year over year it's just like growing the dragon horde right uh there's just so much money flying around that it's it's just it's one fad after another yeah and it's just it's bizarre to me it's just, it's bizarre to me.

It's like the, it's like the, no one remembers the dot-com bubble ever happened. You see the winners, right? Well, I think they won another one. You see the Amazon that came out of the dot-com bubble. Did anybody else emerge from the dot-com bubble? Well, yeah, probably. But like that. Yeah.

No, not at that level. No, I was looking at at who was i looking at that like still hadn't recovered their doc it was like a major major company that still hadn't restored their their like like fortune fortune 500 but still were not valued the way they were in the dot-com bubble i don't know like there's not many companies uh paypal ebay are a couple that people yeah okay there there are some that did emerge. But it's like a handful. The number that just completely disappeared with

all trace of any money put into them vanished in a flurry of Herman Miller chairs on Craigslist. What do you want, James? You want nothing. He wants for nothing ladies and gentlemen I'll have a licorice Thank you oh I don't want the whole thing

Oh there's not that many okay yeah that's fine I accept it then you want a licorice Alright heck yeah I haven't eaten on Wancho in forever This is great Um It's a metaverse yeah i it's just it's actually it actually triggers me there are there aren't that many things that just can immediately set me off but whenever i see anything talking about metaverse

i just i flip because like there's this there's just nothing there what are you talking about nfts at least like at least that has a clear the like yeah it's total bs but at least it's clear what the bs is trying to do it's horse armor yeah at least you get some armor for the horse i guess i don't know the metaverse is just like remember the walmart thing was it walmart i think it was walmart the like know the metaverse is just like remember the Walmart thing was it Walmart I think it was Walmart the like Walmart metaverse shopping experience video did you ever see that I didn't see it it's just like what is this where is this supposed to go like is this go on Facebook or is this just another VR application and if it's just another VR application why are you calling it metaverse it It's just VR shopping, which is completely fine.

There's no problem with that. I mean, people were memeing on it because it's weird to shop in Walmart and VR. And it's like, yeah, sure. You know what? I'm not going to defend that part. But it's whatever. It's just a VR thing. Maybe it becomes normal.

Maybe it doesn't. Who cares? But it's a vr thing maybe it becomes normal maybe it doesn't who cares but it's not meta like why why are we co-opting this this name from a book from quite a while ago which is apparently cool or whatever i haven't read it but apparently it's good and that's fine but why are we just co-opting this word for like something that facebook is potentially doing which sounds like uh zuckerberg is just going nuts and wants to spend money on something and wanted to like shift attention from his company getting sued by everyone on the planet to just the stupidest name slash project that is like ever existed in the tech space in a long time.

I just, it actually just bothers me so much because it's nothing like, like someone, someone, I watched someone talking about how I didn't think he was going to go for this long. Sorry. I watched someone talking about how, uh, Mark must've never played VR chat.

Yeah. Because like everything that they've tried to show off for Facebook metaverse is just a bad version of VR chat. And it's like, yeah, I completely agree. I, I know. Anyways, sorry sorry we can go talk about

something else no I love it I'm having so much fun right now I mean it was already feeling like kind of a Linus heavy episode and so I was like hmm you know what I set him up I just I haven't I haven't played with Steam Deck right so I can't really say a lot about it I know it's great Okay I will defend one aspect of the metaverse To you And you have to try not to bite my head off about it If they achieve

Some level of interoperability Okay So If Facebook's metaverse Where you are... So you're talking like cross play. Sure, where there's a cafe in the McDonald's in the Walmart. There's a seating area.

Stop, stop. Okay, so there's a seating area in the Walmart's McDonald's where you can sit. Stop. Where you can sit. Stop. Where you can sit. Where you can sit. And you can pull up your VR, sorry, Metaverse phone. And call one of your Facebook contacts, probably your aunt. There won't be anyone young.

That's the only reason why anyone uses Facebook anymore. Extended family. And then they appear, and you and your metaverse avatars could leave there. What an amazing place. Okay, you leave there. You go into the Walmart,

and you help her pick out a TV in the metaverse. And then the TV arrives at her house. Okay. If there's some kind of movement between between

like these islands of experiences, then it will be compelling. But, and you can mark my words. So the movement here was that you guys met at McDonald's and went to Walmart? The movement was the integration between multiple platforms. Okay, so the multiple platforms is McDonald's and Walmart.

So Walmart has contributed their layout of their store and their product selection and shopping experience. And McDonald's has contributed creating meetup places. And they have engaged with Facebook to have integration for your contacts so that you can meet and make recommendations to each other. So this is part of my core problem. But you can mark my words. That will never happen. And this is part of my core problem but you can mark my words that will never happen and this is part of my core

problem is like what what you're kind of talking about is almost apps working with each other on a platform and facebook metaverse is the platform yeah but no one's gonna let that happen yeah i know without having competing platforms and so like yes that might be it's gonna be smart homes all over again yeah so yes that might be a thing. It's going to be smart homes all over again. Yeah. So yes, that might be a thing. Maybe there's going to be competing platforms, right? So Microsoft has one. Amazon has one. Facebook has one.

Google has one. Apple has one. Everyone under Netflix somehow finds a way to insert themselves. Whatever. Then there's going to be the Walmart shopping experience for all of those. And the McDonald's meetup experience for all of those and the microsoft meetup or sorry the mcdonald's meetup experience for all of those but you still have people stuck on other metaverses or you know versions of vr chat whatever you want to call it uh and so like what's the point i just keep coming back to like why because we already have this problem where there's okay okay, we have VR, but some people are on Index and some people are on Oculus and some people are on different versions of Oculus.

So they can't run the same thing. And some people are playing Beat Saber, but some people have custom Beat Saber so they can play custom songs and other people don't. And like, there's already these problems and it's just going to fragment it even more. And developing something for the metaverse doesn't mean anything because there isn't one. And I just keep coming back to that core problem. It's like, okay, this, this app transferability, the cross play, whatever, it doesn't matter because there isn't one metaverse. Chasing Saul says, metaverse is entirely a method of removing money from someone else and giving it to someone else. Yeah.

This XKCD comic is basically it in a nutshell. Some of you guys go buy their book or something, because technically this is their copyrighted comic and we're being bad right now um but but help help us make sure that they get some money i don't see a donate i wanted to donate but i don't see a donate link on the thing so you guys can also throw in the chat but this is amazing this is it a nutshell. How standards proliferate. Yes. AC chargers, character encodings, instant messaging, etc. Situation.

There are 14 competing standards. 14! Ridiculous! We need to develop one universal standard that covers everyone's use cases. Yeah! Soon. Situation. There are 15 competing standards.

And that is why the metaverse will never happen. Oh, apparently it's Creative Commons attribution. So I'm good. Heck yeah. Thank you, XJCD. Go buy their book anyways. Yeah, do it anyway. Yeah.

People got to eat. All right. There's not even any ads on this page. Limit Zero in full-plane chat said, just make metaverse an industry standard of intercompatibility so your steam vr avatars work in oculus etc no they they won't yeah but that's the comic i just showed you yeah someone else will want to own the platform yes and that's that's what i'm saying is the people at play right now are not going to allow it to be

one system owned by one person and all those people at play are going to want to own the system because you're talking about like you were just talking about how we deal in k's you're talking about companies that deal in b's yes these guys want to own the whole thing yes because there will be lots more b's where they came from yeah i mean you're talking you're talking to someone who literally is building a volcanic island fortress okay you're talking someone who is literally going to space yeah in a giant penis rocket for fun that would be trying to race each other that would be such a fun like saturday night live sketch like guess that billionaire they just say these like comically evil things that actual billionaires are actually doing or have done deconstruct a historical bridge to move their yacht yeah exactly build a new island that's an i that's that's a

duplicate one now there's more than one oh the yacht the yacht? No, no, no. I mean, I was already, I already had a Bezos one. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's just so easy. I know. He's so easy. Yeah. Actually looks like Dr. Evil. That'd be pretty good.

Invaded a country. Yeah. Oh. Oh. On that note. Oh, yeah. no uh uh crosscode crosscode is part of the ukraine support bundle where is it oh that's cool it's one of my favorite games you guys should go buy it this is not i don't think it's part of the ukraine support bundle but i was gonna stream uh and then i wasn't able to sorry i was busy uh but i was going to stream, and then I wasn't able to, sorry, I was busy. But I was going to

stream Metro because Metro, the Metro series of games is from a Ukrainian developer and the publisher for it is doing this like huge supporting thing. They donated like a million dollars or something. It was, it was huge. They did, I think they did 500 grand of their own money and then they did 500 grand of employee matched funds so i think if you include the employees it ends up being 1.5 million i think but i'm not certain okay rock paper shotgun has an article about it where is it itch.io is it still available yeah here it is okay so we're gonna throw this in chat. Guys, there's a ton of games in here. It's awesome.

One of my all-time favorites is CrossCode. It's a retro style action RPG. Whoa, I didn't realize how many. Oh, yeah. 992? Yeah. What the heck? Yeah, we're going to have to...

Wait, can you change your contribution amount? There's got to be a way to change your contribution amount. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'll make sure that I buy it. Another copy of that game won't hurt. And also, support for Ukraine can't hurt. They've raised over $4.2 million. Yes, I know they have a new game in the works, Rui Senpai.

I'm very excited because, honestly, the best way for me to describe crosscode is it's the game that i would have made if i stopped doing everything i was doing and started a game development studio and was good at it there's some really legit games in here by the way um i'm just like scrolling through really quick super hothot, if you enjoy FPS games, is just fantastic, very unique, which is good in that universe. There's lots of really... Towerfall is great. Just lots of fun with the bros and broettes.

Yeah. What else we got in here? Let's have some Linus and Luke's picks here as we go through here. There's Celeste up above. I scrolled past it because I didn't know where we were going to keep going, but Celeste is very good.

But you guys are going to want to come check this out for sure. There's a lot of stuff I've never heard of, which is fine. Makes sense. There's a lot of games out there. But I would buy it for CrossCode alone. Super Hot. Also, I think that one's worth the price of admission alone.

Have you played Superhot in VR? I have. It's lots of fun. It's so good. Yeah, it's really fun. Safe cracking simulator? That's probably pretty cool. Might be terrible.

I haven't actually seen almost anything else that I recognize, but I don't even care. There's so many that it would take you so long to go through all of them anyways. Yeah. There's a bunch of things in here that I've come across them, but I haven't played them myself. Hi, name, I'm dad.

How to be a dad in two simple steps. Okay. That seems like it might be a bit of a stretch to call that a game, but again, I don't know. Maybe you just shout out in chat if there's cool games in here that you would recommend people try out yeah for sure guys go have a look all right uh we should definitely do sponsor spots though you're right yeah also

didn't i say we were going to start talking about the apple event and we just never did i think so okay yeah we will do that we will do that. We will do that, I promise. Thanks to DigitalOcean for sponsoring today's WAN show. Cloud computing can be complex, to say the least, but reliable and affordable cloud infrastructure really doesn't have to be. And that's where DigitalOcean comes in. With DigitalOcean, you can enjoy a comprehensive portfolio of compute, storage, database, and networking products

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with simple, powerful cloud computing. So get growing with DigitalOcean. Go to do.co.wansshow2022 to get started for free. Again, that's do.co slash WANshow2022 to get started with DigitalOcean for free. Thanks to ShipStation for sponsoring today's WANshow. The new year's off to a solid start, but things aren't getting any less crazy. Between growing your business, managing inventory, and juggling orders, you've got a lot going on. So make the switch to ShipStation, the solution that handles all of your shipping needs quickly, affordably, and painlessly.

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Over 100,000 e-commerce sellers use ShipStation for their business. And if you use our offer code WAN, you can get a free 60-day trial. That's two months of stress-free shipping for free save time save money and save your sanity by heading over to shipstation.com clicking on the microphone at the top of the page and typing in when ship station make ship happen we should talk about the apple event yeah okay i feel like the whole world already has. Yeah.

But in standard WAN show fashion, you get the news at the end of the week. So you too can get a $4,000 computer with one terabyte of storage. And I think it's a 20 core CPU and 64 gigs of RAM. So that's pretty cool for $4,000. That is a pretty special CPU.

Well, the GPU is probably the specialist thing. I mean, NVIDIA and AMD have been trying to bolt together two GPUs with the same performance as a much larger GPU. Forever? Yeah, basically forever. I mean, you could even go back all the way to 3DFX, who NVIDIA acquired along with their sli technology yeah and the m1 ultra does this by using a silicon interposer that connects across

10 000 plus signals providing two and a half terabytes per second of bandwidth. That allows- Ultra fusion architecture. That is so fast that software will recognize these two discrete chips as one. Very cool. Which could just completely change the game, pun intended, what few games you can play on Apple Silicon. No, seriously though, that's so cool though.

Yeah, no, it actually is. That's so cool, though. Yeah. No, it actually is. It's crazy. If you guys haven't already, Ryan Smith from Anand Tech did a good write-up on why this is so mind-blowing. It didn't include any...

One thing that I feel like was missing from it... Hey, Ryan. Hi. It's been a while. One thing I feel was missing was some analysis of previous attempts

and how much bandwidth was available between GPUs so I would have liked to see him talk about how traditional SLI was actually very low bandwidth it was basically just for them to synchronize their workload and most of the rendering was actually done or most of the rendering was actually done, or most of the workload sharing was done by having each GPU render an alternate frame, which added stutter because they wouldn't deliver at an even cadence. And it also added, I mean, it mostly added stutter. It also added inefficiency

because you had to kind of sort of know what this GPU's frame was going to be before you could like work on everything. So it was never very efficient. And then stepping it up a tier, you've got interfaces like NVLink, which are, oh yeah, right. So because they were both working on essentially their own frames, they both had to store all data in their own frame buffer. You couldn't combine memory. Then you could step it up a bit and you could go to envy link which is high speed enough that the

two gpus can actually pool their video memory which is pretty sick but they still can't just be treated as a single gpu that you can only use them together for highly parallel workloads like you know whether it's it's mostly non-gaming stuff oh yeah it's all non-gaming it's like scientific applications which is sweet and there's a lot more of that these days but super cool yeah but not applicable to gamers and then you've got apple creating this this on chip die to die interposer thing that is so freaking fast that you can basically treat every functional unit of these GPUs as though they are just one, which is absolutely the coolest thing that came out of the entire Apple event.

Because from my point of view, the Mac Studio itself is not particularly exciting. Four Thunderbolt 4 ports is definitely not as good from a professional user standpoint as the mac pro with like pcie slots for actual cards we're going back to we're going back to octopus computers why are we doing that 10 gig thought it was over 10 gigs great hdmi 2.0 whatever that even means anymore it's 2.0 not 2.1 so i'm glad whoever did up these specs for us uh looks like this was jonathan horst our resident apple uh apple user um so it would be the 2.0 level bandwidth it's the big mac i love that thank you for that tato sd card reader usb-c ports usb-a ports nice that it's got a couple usb-a ports at least but the m1 ultra processor is just man apple is just flexing on the rest of the

industry at this point the chip is so big the performance per watt if they're to be believed which so far they haven't been they've been disingenuous but i don't think you could say that they outright have lied yeah they haven't been any more disingenuous than like nvidia or intel are um it depends nvidia and intel both have periods of extreme transparency and honesty. Like when NVIDIA released FrameView, basically giving the entire industry access to the same tools that they use to evaluate their products. Just like completely not at all. So yeah, yeah, that's fair.

Well, with Apple, it's perpetual state. Okay, okay. So can we just recognize the glimmers of goodness? Sure. Okay. It's hard for me because I've been personally screwed over by NVIDIA so hard so many times that I just, yeah. Anyway, on the GPU side of things, they said the M1 Ultra is comparable to an RTX 3090

while consuming 200 watts less power in industry standard benchmarks, which is, yeah, just bananas. But then we saw what AMD's chiplet approach to Ryzen did to CPU performance back when they launched it. All of a sudden, I mean, obviously the first iteration was not perfect.

Yeah. But boy, especially if you want to talk power consumption, that approach looks so good compared to what Intel is doing right now with Alder Lake. Alder Lake has the performance, absolutely. It packs, but it packs heat. Yeah. Get it? It's packing heat?

Yeah. Thermals? Yeah. Okay, cool. At the end of the event, Senior VP of Hardware Engineering, John Ternus, mentioned that the Mac Pro is still yet to be replaced. So this is a mid-tier,

which means that even though Apple Silicon has been, in some cases, kind of a bargain, if pricing on this bad boy is anything to go by, the... Yeah.

You came out with an M1 Ultra Max and it's like four of them together sorry sorry i misspoke uh prices start at two thousand dollars that's for a relatively entry-level unit with 512 gigs of ssd and the ultra model starts at four thousand dollars with a one terabyte ssd in other news apple finally has a 27 inch standalone monitor after many years of not kind of doing their own monitors. So now they've got the Pro Display XDR and the Apple Studio Display. It's $1,600. I was going to say,

but you'd think it was a whole computer. Boom, roasted. Six-speaker array with spatial audio, ultrawide webcam with center stage, which is actually very cool. It keeps you in focus as you're moving around. You can get PC stuff like that, but a lot of it's kind of fudgy there's a cool one we did a sponsored video on that's actually like it moves the whole camera and

actually tracks you shockingly well oh is that the one you used when you were at your place with jake yeah yeah i remember seeing that and being like whoa this is actually pretty good really impressive yeah okay yeah yeah. Three stand options available. One can choose a simple tilt stand or vase amount. For $400, you can get tilt and height adjustments. That's an A13 chip. It like is a computer. Yeah, pretty much.

The heck? And the nanotexture glass is available for $300. So that's cool. There's an iPhone SE. Gets an A15 chip from the iPhone 13 and 5G. No millimeter wave and it's only 2x2 MIMO. So, all right, but that's probably fine. Everything else is unchanged,

but the camera and battery improvements that mostly come from the chip prices up $30 to $429. Man, that's iPhone SE is just like kind of a killer value. $430, not bad. And the iPad Air now has an M1 chip like the iPad Pro. Raising more questions about whether the iPad Pro has any reason to exist unless you absolutely need the much larger screen.

Pricing is now $600 and other miscellaneous. You can now get a green iPhone. Some people use them as art tablets. I think you might actually want the bigger screen. Pricing is now $600 and other miscellaneous. You can now get a green iPhone. Some people use them as art tablets. I think you might actually want the bigger screen. Oh yeah, yeah. But I said, unless you need a bigger screen. Yeah, yeah. I think Marquez said it probably best. He devoted exactly 59 seconds to the new colors of iPhones and did

it as a YouTube short. That seemed appropriate to me. Yeah. Apple TV Plus has movies and exclusive MLB games. Man, there are so many baseball games. Did you know they play like 160 games in a season or something stupid like that? Oh, yeah, they just pack them in. Yeah, it's crazy. Yeah, it's not as like physically demanding as a lot of other sports.

They just slam them in because you don't need as much recovery time. I mean, except the pitchers. I'm sure the pitchers get wrecked. Well, they do. Like a lot of the time, they won't even pitch nine innings. Yeah, I was being serious when I was saying that. But outside of that, it's not as, yeah. In other exciting news, Artesian Builds.

Exciting news, okay. Has completely soiled all over itself. Yeah. They became infamous in the PC building community when their CEO, Noah Katz, that's right, Noah Katz, only dogs. Oh. It's not funny.

When their CEO, Noah Katz, denied the streamer, Kia Pia, a PC that she had been drawn for on stream. Which was illegal, by the way. You can't just change the terms of your giveaway, mid-giveaway. So the. Which was illegal, by the way. You can't just like change the terms of your giveaway mid giveaway. So the story is, oh, well, whatever. Under 5,000 on all socials.

If you know what, forget it. Let's just reroll. Let's reroll. That's the reroll. And although Kat's actions sucked, it is the kind of thing where you'd expect them to just put their tail between their legs for a bit and keep Kat cats off camera unfortunately for the 40 to 50 employees that work there

how have i never heard of these guys and they have the same number of employees as us who is buying artesian build computers they popped off they're not very old if i remember correctly they started in like 2018 or 2019 or something um they they popped off through just pushing i i think a lot of these like affiliate accounts through twitch and they're very like twitch focused builder i guess what yeah they had they had a a place where they built the bulk of their computers, which was in the east, that was ran by the former COO. I know this just from watching Steve's video. It's a great video.

And then the CEO was in the west, and he had a smaller kind of area. They did build computers there. It was mostly these stream computers. They would build them on stream and then give them away but they also built some other computers there um and apparently the ceo quit a while back i don't know exactly when because of uh clashing differences with noah katz and apparently the the side of the business that the ceo was running was allegedly allegedly this is all allegedly this is all everything here is allegedly

yes if you want better information probably just watch steve's video yeah sure um but and a lot of this is just ripped off from steve's video anyways to be completely honest hi steve um but yeah apparently that side of the company was run a little bit more you know better um a little more better that's how steve would have said it and there's been a fair amount of kind of you know assumptions that from from employees that worked there and also people trying to look at the company from the outside

that Noah Katz at kind of near the end barely even cared and just wanted to work on the twitch side of things he just wanted to like get twitch famous side of things. He just wanted to get Twitch famous, talk to Twitch streamers, do that type of stuff. Pretty rough. Yeah. The company was very clearly on its last legs

because it's gone now. So this week, the company's bank accounts were frozen with the people in purchasing no longer being able to purchase things. After this, things are bad cats essentially ghosted the company for a couple days this is all allegedly okay i mean we care yeah the company was allegedly investigated for tax fraud their twitter password was allegedly changed so employees couldn't post refunds were allegedly stopped for customers after several days of nearly no

communication the employees were hit with an email saying that all the financial assets are frozen while an outside council performs a reorganization and all employees are suspended until further notice. I believe that email included a thing saying like, hopefully we'll be able to bring you back if we figure things out. So if you have recently bought an Artesian Builds PC and you do not have it yet in your hands,

you need to call your credit card company and get a charge back now yeah huh this is all crazy through all this allegedly cats doesn't seem to grasp that he just caused 50 people to lose their jobs and employees feel like he saw the company as more of a cool sandbox instead of like a company with real people working for it cool sandbox make them twitch famous to be clear so yeah if viewers of the wan show are currently hiring people with pc building experience um maybe maybe kind of reach out there might be some there might be some pc system integrator experienced people out there who are looking for work uh ste got a quote from Steven Burke from Gamers Nexus,

Steven Burke. The thing that's really troubling about this one is just how absolutely idiotic the collapse of this company was. Wow. And this is in the comments of the video, an employee allegedly said, working for this company was so rewarding when you weren't talking to noah or working with noah so sad that so many staff lost their jobs i hope my colleagues can find comfort elsewhere uh abe radshaw yeah or abby i think i don't think it's Abe, but yeah. Yeah. Really rough. Um, talk about going out in a ball of fire. Yeah. That was, that was pretty wild. Uh, Steve talks in his video about like how this was really bad, but probably fixable by any like reasonable company. Yeah.

Make a proper apology video. Yeah. Find a way to kind of fix it say like we're going to spend some time working on making sure that effectively this never happens thank you for your feedback we have taken it seriously just give me the computer yeah like immediately when this started gaining any momentum you needed to be like that that was super stupid. Here's a computer. I am so sorry. That was super dumb, our bad. Yeah. You can revise your giveaway rules going forward.

Fine. Right? Like I, from a business standpoint, I, I also personally do not see the value of, you know, having someone like,

giving away $1,000 computers. Yeah. Giving away $1,000 computers or multi $1,000 computers to people who are not going to generate thousands or multiple thousands of dollars in profit. Because right, like at the end of the day, marketing has to have some kind of a return on investment. I can understand some of it because they're trying to get all like new up and coming streamers to start working with them. They're trying to like buy like new up-and-coming streamers to start working with them they're trying to like buy out all the up-and-coming streamers and there's a cost to that yeah but

they try okay they tried to they tried to offer it to her the problem is that they should have done it right away yeah like right away problem is jay was on it by the time i even knew about this jay we already had a computer he had already yeah exactly i was like media reaction that's fantastic wow and and to be honest he just straight up insulted her and like made fun of her so she probably just straight up didn't want i actually didn't watch the whole thing because it was just kind of painful to watch it's really rough like really stupid oh yeah okay it's it's fair enough um so like yeah i mean even if they did reach out to her it's it would be something that would be difficult to recover from but it's i mean it's possible you pull noah off camera for an extended period of time potentially ever yeah but you just pull him off camera and you go like yeah that was extremely

bad we're working on fixing this whatever i mean people have been making apology videos and then recovering from it for years now it's not exactly a new thing um you thank jay i mean that would be an interesting way to go yeah like it's cool that the wow that's a next level move yeah it's cool the computer industry like has each other's back so much i'm really unhappy that this time we were on the wrong side of it but i'm happy to see that you like you replace jay's computer or something like that you'd be like hey jay or you know thanks for thanks for that give this away to your viewers sure yeah something like that you try and turn on l into a w yeah you know you could just you take two l's and you just yeah perfect uh but yeah it's i mean it would have been rough but like you don't expect that issue to just delete your entire company of 50 employees within a week or whatever it was, right?

Honestly, you know, I'm looking at this going, wow, you can make a system builder with that kind of momentum just by having a few people watch you build computers on Twitch? I should make a computer company. Well, maybe you can't. It's kind of the side story, right? Because it sounds, I mean, they weren't able to do business in California. They were being looked at for tax fraud, all this kind of stuff. So like the, the company was on, the company was limping. It might've been better when the COO was there. Everything I've been finding is that all the,

all the people were much happier with that person. Um, and maybe the, the company ran more, uh, what is it called? Flushed when he was around? I don't know. Um, but yeah. Yeah. Okay. That's another one. Steve is, is helping the employees. He's getting them all to reach out to him. And I believe he's trying to find like system integrator companies that are hiring people so he can try to help them get jobs and stuff.ve's being really cool about all this um so that's i mean that's awesome and if you are watching this and you're an employee there and you somehow haven't already heard about that uh reach out to steve and i'm sure you have yeah i'm sure they have as well. Yeah. All right. Well, that's very... It's not even unfortunate

because it's not fortune that caused this. Well, it's unfortunate for the people who worked there. It's unfortunate for the employees. Yeah. And hopefully they land on their feet. Oh, man. Here's some big news. AMD asks motherboard manufacturers to remove overclocking options

for the ryzen 7 5700 x3d so we've been talking for years about how companies aren't your friends so when people have been bringing up like amd are the good guys it's like it may be a little more nuanced than that luke i don't mean it probably is i'm just saying i'm just saying this will be the first chip out of amd with their 3d v cache okay so it's got way way more cache than we've seen on amd cpus in the past but it seems like it comes with a bit of a catch. Compared to the regular 5800X, it has lower base and boost clocks, the same price tag at launch, and currently no overclocking. So TechPowerUp verified the rumor posted on video cards, and AMD is refusing to explain why the chip can't overclock. And I don't believe that they have

given any indication as to whether or not it will be unlocked by the time consumers can actually get their hands on these things. So basically, they sent this note to manufacturers. 5800X3D, 3d 8 core 16 thread 100 dash part number 105 watt agisa uh pi 1206b 1 28 please hide vermeer x cpu oc bio setup options to my knowledge even motherboard manufacturers haven't been given any explanation as to yeah why overclocking is blocked but it seems like this massive 96 megabytes of level 3 cache probably has something to do with it there has to be there has to be something that amd is trying to protect in this chip by not allowing users to overclock because they've actually been pretty cool about overclocking for the most part. Every Ryzen chip has been unlocked.

There's a bunch of people in full-plane chat saying AMD bad now. That's not what I was trying to say. I'm not saying they're bad. I'm just saying they're not your friend. No company is your friend. Not bad. They're just, they're in it to win it.

And when it is your money not your feelings yeah 100 unless your feelings lead you to want to give them your money yes in other news limewire is back hey stick to austria to austrian sorry to austrian entrepreneurs bought the rights to limewire and they're launching a new company LimeWire GmbH Paul and Julian not going to try to say that last name uh spun up the company they think it'll evoke nostalgia for millennials and Gen Z which I'm sure Gen Z I don't think so LimeWire was dead by the time we were in high school wasn't it I can't imagine Gen zers being too nostalgic about limewire um but yeah like very early high school for me limewire was super gone yeah or you'd like go over to your friend's house who's

not very computer savvy and they'd still have it and their computer would just be wrecked because of all the viruses and it's just like oh okay that's why um like are you sure you don't want to use Sherry as a... Or whatever, yeah. The platform will be used for NFTs. NFTs attached to music, content, and artworks. Using LimeWire, you'll be able to create, buy, and trade NFT collectibles with ease. You can join a waitlist, I guess. They have a roadmap, I guess. Our discussion question written by Nicholas Plouffe is,

why does music need NFTs? It doesn't. Because music evokes emotion, which evokes opening your wallet. Hey, there it is. Good reference. Horse armor. Yeah. Very nice. We all know what happened to the Wu-Ttang album we don't want that to happen again

i want to hear from you guys floatplane chat are there any gen zers in there that have any nostalgia whatsoever for limewire i seriously don't i'm trying to remember what the what the order was of like the main the main file sharing so it was it was Napster first. Napster was legit. Then you had Kazaa I believe came after Napster. Sort of at the same time and then after yeah. Shariaza was like a fork of Kazaa or something like that if I recall. This is all completely from it's been a minute like teenager me's memory um and then I thought limewire was in there somewhere yeah gen z never used limewire yeah i used it but it wasn't an emotional experience roasted roasted one person said i do looking i guess gen z started mid to late 1990s that's way

yeah that's way too late. Like, they would have been actual children at this point. Yeah, you must have been pretty young if that was nostalgia. I'm borderline Gen Z millennial, and I got a lot of viruses as a kid. Oh, man.

I feel like dealing with viruses is like... was much more of a thing back then. It's funny. Jaden's like, I'm on the edge of millennial, was much more of a thing back then. It's funny. Jaden's like, I'm on the edge of millennial. Don't remember it after elementary school, which is so funny to me because using your parents' computer wasn't really as much of a thing when I was in elementary school. Oh, yeah.

Right? For sure. Yeah. I'm sitting here going, oh, well, why would an elementary school kid be like allowed on the internet? Oh, okay. A lot of my friends in elementary school didn't have the internet. It wasn't until, I'm trying to think.

Like no joke. Man, did I have, I don't think I had internet when I lived at my dad's place. Exactly. That's my point. That was up until 97. Wow. Yeah. I mean, like later elementary school, like in grade six, it was quite common.

Yeah. But I specifically remember like grade three, grade four, like a lot of people didn't have. Yeah, a lot of people didn't have the internet. Crazy. All right. Aging ourselves a little bit. This is great. DigiDude. Millennial, you haven't heard

three doors down kryptonite without hearing all the screeching beeps. Remember when they used to seed corrupted files into the file sharing networks? That was so awesome. Boom, boom, boom. The file you're listening to is available on, like, Universal Music. Oh, man, I remember that. The file you're listening to is available on Universal Music.

Oh, man, I remember that. Oh, it's so great. Yeah. It's been a long time. There was Nutella. I never used Nutella. I don't remember that one at all. Codependent says, holy shnikes, supposedly emule still works?

Oh, no. We should do some, I almost said super super chats we don't do those in here uh we should do the merch messages yeah gianna says hey linus and luke you said you'd like ltd store to be sort of a lifestyle brand besides more plain stealth items what are some lifestyle products you envision for LTT store well I mean the screwdriver backpack yeah there's the women's clothing doesn't I guess that's plain that's still clothing yeah we have stealth and I was like there's no logos

we have puzzles coming so that's cool like basically we just don't want to be constrained by traditional merch there's the I think there's only one right now but the kid products yeah the book yeah it's pretty unique to have a book yeah yeah so we just we just want to make things we want to make that we think are cool yeah rachel says hey linus by now i'm sure you've seen the suggestions

for anthony to have a channel focused on linux do you have any plans for that? The problem with... So we're getting into business talk now. The problem is that if I have one Anthony, and that is the number of Anthonys that we have here at Linus Media Group. So I've got one Anthony. Trying to clone him, but it's hard. We've got this chessboard, right?

Anthony's like the queen or the king. We've got this chessboard, right? Anthony is like the queen or the king. You've got one of them, okay? And so they can only do one thing at a time. And I could take that Anthony and I could assign him to work on things that a million or two million or five million people will watch and learn from him. Or I could assign him to things where 30,000 or 50,000 people might watch and learn from him.

And Anthony might really enjoy what he's working on, but in the interest of the greater good, both to us and to the tech community, should I put the Anthony in front of as many people as possible working on high profile projects? Or should I sideline Anthony into a niche channel that will never grow beyond a certain ceiling? So what you're saying is we need to get more writers to the end of the board. And then they become Anthony's. more writers to the end of the board um and then they become anthony's

i don't know if that's what i was saying but i guess it's chill that's where that's where i'm at on it that's where that's where i'm out on it it's uh anthony is great but i think that uh a channel focused on linux has a ceiling and i think that it's also a community that's pretty well served. Like, why are we going in and trying to take over someone else's deal? There's like almost a disproportionately large amount of Linux creators. Yeah, so-

There's a lot of content out there. With Mac, for example, we saw a unique opportunity for ourselves as sort of the not buttbut-kissy Apple coverage, right? But still, we want hosts and we want writers that do love the products and love the ecosystem, but are not constrained in any way by having to have a relationship with Apple.

We will just buy Horst anything that he needs. So he never has to worry about that. So we're untethered in that way, which is cool. And I saw that as a differentiating factor. But for the Linux one, I just I just don't see what it would be. Because I feel like Anthony could work on a Linux video once or twice a month. Do you have any idea how long it takes to make a video? Once or twice a month would be like 40 of his output especially if it's twice in a month like no no that no no no uh kushal been watching since usb sticks killed servers and that guy was called slick if you could bring back one failed product or company but make it successful what would it be oh man i want to say engage i wish i wish nintendo had had a competitor in the mobile gaming space all these years

case labs case labs would be pretty cool no they're not back someone bought the name but i think it's like not back yet. Yeah, yeah. And I don't know if it will be what it was. What else has failed? I can't think of a ton, but my knee jerk was Case Labs, but I can't.

I'm trying to think of things that have failed that I actually liked. A quark says Zune. Yeah, yeah. Oh, Zune software was awesome. Yeah, that's fair. zune software was awesome yeah that's fair zune software was so legit i wouldn't want to do right now to be honest but zune software on my phone could be interesting la saga says vita yeah vita would be would be very legit man what a missed opportunity that was

for them to just make zune the primo streaming platform oh yeah people would have people would have installed the crap out of that oh for sure man microsoft for a company that is so big and so successful so many balls like man yeah if you ever wanted to sell out on nfts you could always nft the early badges on the forum that's really funny i didn't really think about that we kind of did an nft sale when we did the early badges on the forum. That's really funny. I didn't really think about that. We kind of did an NFT sale. What? When we did the contributor badges on the forum. How is that an NFT sale? Well, it's like people just buying the rights

to use an image that anyone could copy as like a badge on their user account. No. Well, no, I know it's not an NFT. I just mean you're just buying digital artwork. That's not how it works though. No. Oh, that's true.

It's because it's a function on the site. You actually cannot just put it there. Yes. We don't care if people download the image. That wasn't the point. But, hold on. NFTs, if you set them as your profile picture on Twitter, do actually integrate with the platform. It's not a profile picture. What is it?

It's not a user interactable area of the website well it's an award that you get oh you are splitting hairs i don't think i am i actually completely disagree this this is not no user can just do this you can't like because on on okay so you get a hexagon around it and everyone makes fun of you because you have a hexagon picture on your twitter profile so whatever that's the only difference on there you get a hexagon or you don't but no one gives a crap and they just make fun of you if you have it on the forum it's it's a non-user interactable section it's a badge holder area you can't add things there you can't subtract things from there they're just there if you've earned them or purchased them i think it's got a pretty similar vibe you're buying digital artwork you're not

though well you kind of are no you're not well you're okay you're buying rep like you're you're buying you're flexing yes by buying an image 100 yeah then it's the same thing but you're buying you're buying an award the image part doesn't matter the image part was actually so bad that remember we drew some of them in paint and tried to make them intentionally bad wow the chat is very divided on this wow some of it was artwork olinic i mean some artists created it And also I did some Hand drawn ones that were very Expensive and they were Intentionally awful

And it's just one of them Yes but theoretically an NFT Is just one And anyone can download it And we knew that from the start But no one else can add it as their badge That's true Ryan Carson points out that it can't be resold yeah so it's worse than an nft yeah sure i don't know i'm just saying it's not an nft that's like that's like saying skins and video

games are nfts it's like no i think they are certainly precursors that's why i keep bringing up horse armor every time we talk about it because it's paying actual real actual money for intangible pixels but it's it's a lot of nfts even though they they don't have exclusivity built into it at all because you can just mint more of them like it's literally part of the whole idea there's literally artists that have just minted like 50 of one photo and they've been like whatever um they they come with an assumption of exclusivity game skins do not it's just a thing that you buy it's an art attribution that you buy that has nothing to do with nfts right but in the same so game skins whether we're talking game skins or whether we're talking a badge on the forum the scarcity is determined by the provider you can't just say anything in the world that has

a scarcity element to it is an NFT. No, but I'm not saying it is an NFT. I'm saying it's a very like one. We're going to let the community decide. I think Luke and I have both had an opportunity to make our cases here. Is DropPoll actually going to work this time? I don't know. It's been pretty broken

lately. So I've dropped it in the float plane chat. I've dropped it in the twitch chat against my better judgment because those are all the talks because af jk love you twitch chat and i'm dropping it in youtube now which moves so fast that i can't even be no one's gonna be able to click on it i gotta wonder you know youtube chat sup we don't talk much but um the reason is that it moves so fast that there can't possibly be any meaningful interaction in it so why do you guys bother you type yeah that's i i saw an interesting conversation about it because we're it was like a comparison of a bunch of different streaming tools and like um the value of slowness was part of the conversation and twitch chat there's just as much

interaction in twitch chat but twitch chat loads in like chunks so you'll see a bunch of messages and then it'll go and it'll take off but then you'll see they'll sit there for a sec yeah you'll be able to read them and then they'll take off again and then youtube is a continuous thing it's actually much faster which makes it unreadable so it's almost good that the twitch version is slower because you can actually interact with it even though it's so fast well three quarters of the community agrees with you but i realize i actually kind of phrased the question you put the you put the question wrong yeah i kind of asked the question wrong. I'm going to take this W anyways. Well, you're welcome.

But you, yeah, you just said it wrong. All right. Fine. I'm over it. Back to merch messages. I should just sell out and sell NFTs. No. I should just sell out and then buyTs. No. I should just sell out and then buy a Hawaiian island. You should get one of the creator warehouse people to draw a poo and then sell it for a million dollars.

Well, that's exactly it. It'd be hilarious. See if someone actually buys it. Does it make it better if you openly mock it and sell it? We decided, I think we talked about this before and we decided no, no, it doesn't make it any better because you are still cynically taking

advantage of someone else's belief that it will appreciate in value. Someone will end up holding that bag and that bag is full of turds. Oh, that, someone will end up holding that bag. And that bag is full of turds. That's an NFT collection that I don't think has been made yet. Bag of turds? Yeah. And each bag is like unique. So when you buy it,

you get a picture of what kind of turds were inside it? Oh, boy. That's rough. Yeah. yeah all right back to it from uh brayden love the show currently looking for a new mouse my old mx vertical broke and i wanted a better mouse for gaming preferably ergonomic any recommendations oh boy um brayden if you liked the mx vertical um i don't know what to recommend you because i definitely did not jive with the mx vertical it's a weird mouse it's a weird mouse can i show your screen uh yeah sure here one sec oh i already did it no it's fine okay it's just loading there we go yeah That's the vertical. So suggesting a different mouse than the vertical is kind of tough.

Yeah. Thanks for writing into the show, though, but I just don't even know where to begin. You're sharing yours now. Oh, whoops, wrong screen. Robert, why do screens have a minimum brightness? I get the max, but why can't I turn it all the way down to 0%? That is a wonderful question.

And it has to do with the way that screen brightness is modulated. So whether it's PWM modulation, which used to be more common on earlier LCDs and was good because it allowed you to effectively go down to zero brightness just by pulsing the um the power to the backlight more or less often um but had the drawback of flickering uh and strobing like it was it was annoying and could give people mild side effects like headaches or whatever the case may be. So now we use DC modulation. It's not really modulation at that point. We use DC control. So we adjust the voltage being provided.

And the reason that you can't just keep taking the voltage down to zero is that electronics have a minimum voltage that is required for them to run. Now, I would love to see some innovation around something like ND filters, for example. Oh, interesting. So we have lenses, for example, in the studio where there's two ND filters that you can counter-rotate to allow more or less light to pass through and they are mostly transparent in terms of not not coloring the light that passes through them i think something like that would be an amazing way to achieve

lower light output but maybe that's just something that could be an accessory for a product like a like a portable handheld gaming system or or something along those lines but the reality of it is you just can't turn the voltage lower and lower and lower because eventually you just won't be able to drive the screen off yeah yeah next one was from kyle he said would you ever consider doing a collab with the guys at nasa space flight it'd be super cool to see the camera robotics and networking they've developed uh and use for rocket launch tracking and live streams uh maybe petabyte build for them too yeah we we actually have a contact at the canadian space agency now do we really yeah he reached out

saying like i can't join full-time but we would be interested in like consulting or helping with labs interesting um so i mean that could be cool yeah that's super cool i mean we yeah we're down to collab um it's i think you guys overestimate the simplicity of making a video about science-y stuff like that. It's kind of a challenging thing to make engaging to an average viewer. And we're at a point where LTT can't upload a video that only appeals to 100,000 people. That is not sustainable for our company. Everything we upload has to at least appeal to a million people

so whenever we do something that's like holy crap look at this thing there has to be enough that is relatable to our um to our consumer our predominantly consumer audience if you were able to check out like the control center at houston i think that might be transferable enough yeah you but okay the problem with that is that you'd have to have complete enough access to it oh yeah that you're able to make a compelling video which might not be possible if they came in and they were just like you get a standard tour here's this room what does that do that's room. What does that do? That's classified.

What does that do? Classified. That's not a video. There's no video. I agree. So that's one of the, that's one of the ground rules that we have. Anytime someone brings us in to do a, a piece of content about something that's more industrial or more enterprise

is we basically go, okay, look, it's going to have to be unfettered. If I ask you to pull up your uh you know your your raised cable management floor you say how high how many tiles do you want removed if i say i want to crawl around in it you say when will that be like it's we have to be able to come in and do our jobs did i ever tell you about uh remember when i went to you probably don't um but i went to iem intel extreme masters yes i do remember that and wasn't

that where you beat up that girl and like mario kart no that was that was pax nope that was a specific nintendo event was it yeah all right yeah he's an awful person i really people i'm not gonna go over that story but um uh no we we were able to go backstage and we wanted we we were gonna make a video of the like oh that's right of the the big like video wall or whatever or like some display or networking it was the the control center how they manage all the incoming streams and how they like mux it all together to send it out to people. Right. And we made a video back there. And what is it?

ESA or something? ESEA? I'm not sure. ESEA? The company that like runs the, I think it's ESEA. ESEA. I don't remember. The company that was running the tournament yeah um they saw the video go up

we're like what because intel was like yeah sure that's fine and then just got us back there and then none of the people that were there were like this is a problem because I was clearly being escorted by intel people so they were like i don't know but the people that actually owned that section which was not intel were like huh and it ended up all being totally fine right uh but there can be very sensitive information right yeah and um foster pago over on twitch chat says that's right i agree but linus uh put it in a way that sounded pretty bossy well yeah i did because if you expect me to come in and do my job which is to make your thing be interesting i think it was the how high part well got a little that's the answer don't tell me how to do my job

i've been doing it longer than you that's the reality of it and so if your goal is to have me come in yeah thanks uh if your goal is to have me come in and make an interesting video then you have to facilitate it it can't it can't you can't be blocking me we're on the same team is pretty much what I'm trying to say. And I've potentially be certain things, but there needs to like, I'm a reasonable, obviously. Yeah. But that's the reason that I specifically said that this is really

challenging when it comes to industrial or enterprise applications, because it's not immediately relatable. Like making a video about, say for example, an enterprise storage appliance. OK, making that interesting to a million people or two million people is not simple. And it's not something that's necessarily intuitive to the kinds of people that work in PR or corporate communications for a company that produces a product like that. Especially if you can only look at it from the outside or something.

Exactly. So if I show up and I'm like, hey, I want to see the backplane. And they're like, no, sorry. And I go, okay, I need to open the chassis. And they're like, no. And I kind of go, well, I need to see the cooling system. And they go, sorry, we can't show you that. Right.

Then you're basically asking me to come and do my job while you put up obstacles that prevent me from doing my job yeah right so they just want a bad advertisement at that point but they don't even realize it would be bad and that's it so they just want an advertisement it's like no it has to be interesting exactly exactly there's nothing that grinds my gears more than someone who expects me to come in and produce an ad for them. Like, no, this is a give and take relationship. I need content. You want content. Let's work together is the point that I was trying to make. And so when it comes, HP had a sand years ago, right? So when it comes to creating obstacles for me, no, I don't tolerate it. I just won't go. I'll say, look, these are the terms. You have to, you have to be open with us. You have to give us access. We have to be able to climb up on a thing. If that's what we need for an interesting shot you got to accept

that and if you don't then have someone else do your do your corporate tour video and no one will watch it because there's a reason people watch what we do and they don't watch that because that's boring yeah i'm not going to go in and make not boring content because i can't upload that that's the way it is. Yeah. We've got some more merch messages here. Jason says, my 11-year-old wants to create YouTube videos. Any recommendations on where to start?

Gear applications, et cetera. Your phone. Your phone. Your phone and some free or cheap video editing software on your phone. Because the first thing any 11-year-old needs to figure out is if they're actually passionate about this or if they're going to do it one time and forget about it. Not even that. There's extremely successful, many million views per video, many million subscriber channels

that work exclusively off of iPhones. Like straight up robin 5693 asks linus what if there's a safety reason you're not allowed like a radiation area then the next thing i'll say is okay i want to see the control center for the radiation control system or something or something yeah you have to give me something and like you said be reasonable it's a visual medium right and uh nagev says um oh wait why was luke escorted by intel people because you just are when you're in a restricted area you need an escort that's normal like it's not yeah it's not that we don't understand how the world works

it's just that a lot of the time the people working in these jobs don't understand how content works they don't do it day to day they don't get it they watch the video and they go wow that that a lot of the time, the people working in these jobs don't understand how content works. They don't do it day to day. They don't get it. They watch the video and they go, wow, that's a lot of views. And a lot of the times they just haven't even watched any of our actual content. Like I've shown up and they didn't realize that I was going to start taking things apart. And I go, well, do you even know who I am?

Why did you even call me? You know, which is fine. I don't expect everyone to know who I am why did you even call me you know which is fine I don't expect everyone to know who I am it's just that if you went to the trouble to fly me here I figured you might that's all Nathaniel are there any videos you regret making e.g. ASMR build guide well that's

certainly one of them I regret that WAN show where I was like, crypto will never be a thing. It's going nowhere. When the guy bought the house. Oh, there's a lot of takes on WAN show that I'm sure. Yeah, for sure. I'm sure there's a lot of takes on WAN show that we probably regret. And there's a lot of takes on WAN show that also ended up becoming prophetic statements.

I don't know. Who knows? Videos you regret making. Man, that WD sponsorship at Computex that first year was pretty rough. Yeah. So we inked a deal with, it's all people who aren't there anymore. So I feel like I can tell this story. But we inked a deal with our WD rep man where we ever we were scrappy we were desperate back then the deal was they would be our sponsor for computex but on every day of the show we had to make a separate individual video from the wd booth

and there was like getting one video out of the wd booth that year would have been a struggle been really tough i remember because that that was the that was the first show that i did kind of on my own in regards to hosting stuff and i remember like feeling kind of cheesed because you just dumped all the trash on me um that's but yes but then i also remember feeling so stoked because i didn't have to do any of the wd videos all the wd stuff so time consuming because they always wanted to bring some director or vp to talk to me about stuff brandon and i would cruise by you guys see you're doing something go film a whole video cruise back.

And you had like not progressed very far. And I knew you were faster and more efficient than me. So I'm just like, oh my goodness, this must be really rough. I made an entire video. This is amazing. I made an entire video about the stupid hard drive inspired car that they had in the booth what didn't you specifically have to make that one too yes you had to make it about the car yeah i wanted to just integrate the car into like other thing else yeah content i remember you specifically telling me that you had to make

a dedicated video just about the car and i was just like what oh no like it was kind of neat in that it's all like kind of uh inspired by actual hard drive components like these are uh the actuator arms and stuff like that so it's like neat but man and some some of the like art projects that get made for shows there were not five videos worth of things in that oh six six hold on how long were there six days six days holy crap yeah um there okay oh this this reminds me of something we uh we regretted making so much that we never made it public. Oh, no. Okay.

Are you sure you even want to go over that? You guys are... Oh, no. So one of the industry Computex traditions, for better or for worse. I'm using the word better very charitably here. Not better. Not better. Is it's a bit of a different culture over there.

I guess I would say. I mean, this used to be a thing in Western shows as well. Oh, for sure. I mean, it's still a thing depending on what Western show you go to.'s probably fair like i went to a car show not that long ago i'm sure it's still a thing at car shows booth babes were definitely still a thing to use the i in my opinion slightly derogatory term but i need you guys to understand what i'm talking about and that's the only word i really generally refer to the only really word i really know for it. But we were like, oh, okay, should we do like a booth compilation that includes like the presenters at each booth? Because it's pretty typical at Computex for them to have people that obviously don't work at these companies that in some cases are definitely not wearing enough clothing.

And we were just like, this is the cringiest thing ever and it doesn't matter if this is a thing that everyone does we're just not going to participate in this was what we ultimately decided and i'm extremely glad that we never uploaded that yeah like extremely glad i could not be more glad that that did not happen it was just it would have been one of the yeah go ahead computex was the only one because again there was there was booth babes or however you refer to them i genuinely don't know if there's another name for it i don't know um ces it was pretty big there. There was Summit Pax, but it was not very big there. Um, but Computex, Computex was the only show that I knew photographers went there purely to take photos of them.

Yeah. Not to cover anything to do with the show other than the booth paves. And that was, that was like a big, what the heck moment for me. Time for our next, uh, merch message. Jason, when you released the stealth pins shirt, you did a golden ticket design for something like five shirts. What was the design and what did the prize end up being? Did everyone claim their prize? Promotional model.

Okay, sure. Uh, promotional model. Thank you. That. Okay, sure. Promotional model. Thank you. That is the PC term. Yeah. What was the design? What did we do? It said something else on it.

What was it? Sorry? Oh, I think we gave away CPUs. It was the CPU Stealth Pins shirt. And I think there were different letters in it or something. Or the pin. Yeah, because it's ltt it spells out ltt kind of subtly yeah on the normal ones and it was something else for the special ones

um and i believe everyone claimed them but that's a question for nick i said here's your budget to do a giveaway and then it was off my desk anonymous asks how easy was it to swap out the ssd and the steam deck actually pretty easy uh we haven't upgraded our steam deck ssds yet though but we will soon valve has really good guides for how to do a fresh install on it so it's no big deal uh aiden next question uh from aiden is would you consider doing a what's in my bag video with the release of the LTT backpack? What if that was, we were talking today, I didn't end up being able to have that meeting with Nick for other reasons, but we were talking today about like how we could make the product

pages unique. And I mentioned videos. What if that was the video for the backpack? You'd like a tour through the backpack with your stuff in it. But that could just be a channel upload. I think that the one on the product page should actually be we're talking about doing maybe for the first time ever pre-orders on a product and uh screwdriver and backpack are obvious candidates for it because they've been such cash sinks and so we're thinking about uh doing like special content for the page. And Luke came up with the idea of doing like product tours of the prototypes, kind of like a Kickstarter video.

But actually, I'm kind of imagining it with like really crappy production values. Just like me in a room. You might even film it. Slick the cameraman. Sweet. We'll just show it off. Yeah. Yeah. So, yes, we would consider that yeah absolutely i don't think what's in my bag is very interesting though i have a pretty boring bag i like the

little the little pouch yeah but i showed the pouch recently oh okay yeah like i just talked about it in i think uh a stream uh the steam deck disassembly stream i think i did it right julian l uh just out of curiosity would you ever ever be interested in doing an LTT video on the tech behind VTubers and try turning yourself into one? Yeah, I think it'd be really interesting. It is pretty interesting. And I think from a business standpoint, it would actually make a ton of sense to get into it.

It's really advanced stuff. Like, it's actually really cool. I don't know. Juan, any chance of products making their way back onto amazon or was that a one-off yes they're supposed to in all seriousness though the creator warehouse team is super busy we have a new uh we have a new like logistics person and she hopefully is going to do a way better job of smoothing out our ordering. So really excited about that. Cool.

But it's going to take time. Yeah. And our restocks. Right. Zachary. Hey, thanks for making Night Shift great. Hey, heck yeah, Zachary. Another water bottle for the collection.

Any tips for a small tech content creator? I mean, it's the same thing I tell everyone, right? Like, you've got to find your own voice you gotta find something that you are really passionate about i think i think the way the met is going now is it's less about trying to be a huge um do everything creator and more about finding a niche and absolutely killing it like vincent from HDTV Test, for example, just gets so far into the weeds on TV and panel technology that he puts himself in a position

where he can get big enough in that niche that if he decided to branch out, he's got this captive audience. And I think that's the best way to gain a foothold these days versus just trying to be another tech youtuber people like passion so if you're super passionate and super knowledgeable about one particular thing just run with that thing super hard like linus was saying hey larson luke now that most online computer parts places are kind of shady can we trust trust PC Part Picker and Tiger Direct for our PC parts ordering? Didn't Tiger Direct like...

I didn't know they existed anymore. Go down at some point? Are they still a thing? Holy crap, they're still a thing. Whoa. March Mayhem Hot Picks. This is so NCIX-y. Basketball has something to do with computers.

Wow. $389 Dell i5 14-inch laptop wow um yeah i don't really know what to tell you about that who knows um we don't vet computer shops yeah pc part picker i don't think actually sells anything directly. I didn't think they did. I don't think so. I've heard very good things about, or, what are they called?

Micro Center? Yes. Micro Center. Yeah. Yeah. We haven't seen too many complaints about Micro Center. So that's always,

I mean, that's really the only gauge we have because we don't have personal experience sorting from any of these US only sites. Yep. And I think that's the end thank you guys very much for tuning into the wan show we will see you again next week same bad time same bad channel bye Apparently Viva La Dirt League

Raised like two and a half million That's crazy Those guys are hilarious The great expansion Bringing it to the next level Cool That's crazy Those guys are hilarious For what? The Great Expansion Bringing it to the next level Cool Yeah Good for them

Wow They are really funny Alright See you later guys