The WAN Show - YouTube Made a Huge Mistake - WAN Show November 12, 2021

Episode Date: November 15, 2021

Check out TEAMGROUP's Black Friday/Cyber Monday deals at: https://lmg.gg/TEAMGROUPBlackFriday Listen to ARM Viewpoints today at: https://lmg.gg/vDQly Try FreshBooks free, for 30 days, no credit card required at https://www.freshbooks.com/wan Check out our other Podcasts: They're Just Movies Podcast: https://www.anchor.fm/theyrejustmovies Timestamps: Courtesy of NoKi1119 (NOTE: Timestamps may be off due to change in sponsors) [0:00] Chapters [1:44] Intro [2:13] Topic #1: Dislike count changes.     3:07 Reasons to justify the change.     6:20 Discussing comments moderation.     8:45 What YT could do better.     9:06 Different usages of dislikes.     14:06 Linus's take on dislikes moderating. [33:16] Sponsors. [--] Cont. Topic #1: Dislike count changes.     35:27 Linus will call to discuss the change. [38:12] Topic #2: Linux challenge update.     42:06 Game compatibility.     45:08  "Windows: from the perspective of a Linux user" video idea.     48:10 OpenVPN on Linux VS Windows.     49:58 Issues with Xbox & Windows gaming. [54:50] Topic #3: AMD's data center architectures. [55:58] Topic #4: Microsoft "SE". [56:45] LTTStore party shirt & newsletter. [59:35] Merch Messages. [1:05:28] Linus leaving. [1:06:06] Merch Messages ft Luke. [1:31:26] Outro Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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welcome to the wancho ladies and gentlemen we've got a fantastic show for you guys today but unfortunately that's really as long as i can maintain that upbeat kind of tone of voice. Oh, yes. Because I am furious. Kind of upset. I'm pretty angry. And I want to get into it in full detail later, but the long, short version is that YouTube disabled the dislike counter on the platform. So some people have got it rolled out already.

Some people are still seeing dislike counts, but they are all going to be gone within days is my understanding. And this has an enormous impact on the usability of the platform for certain users that in my opinion, doesn't outweigh the benefits for other users, but certainly makes it so that we should probably at least consider other options

rather than throwing the baby out with the bathwater here. In other news, AMD has some huge data center tech incoming. This is really freaking exciting because they just continue to make everyone else look like clowns which is which is great what else we got pinch to zoom is forbidden in the court of law stop doing it what okay oh wow okay uh okay good i like this second note here about this topic. What else we got? Oh, sweet. Maybe we should just skip that one. Also, Microsoft releases SE products. It might also mean still edge.

Okay, let's go ahead and roll that intro. These topics are great. all right i want to start by justifying YouTube's removal of the dislike counter. So to be clear, they are not removing the dislike button. You can still indicate to the creator of the video whether you liked, which will show publicly, or whether you disliked, which will show only in the creator's dashboard, that particular piece of content. And the thing about a dislike is that it doesn't provide any kind of constructive feedback. All it does is pretty much blow a, you know, raspberry at the creator of that video and say, I disliked it. It definitely serves no purpose other than to share whatever negative feelings you have. And in some cases, that can be a harmful and destructive force. So one of the big reasons that Google has provided for...

Actually, here, we've got the YouTube blog post where they provided their rationale. One of the main reasons that YouTube provided for making this change was that it would be a way to make the platform more inclusive and promote respectful interactions between viewers and creators. Their goal is also to reduce dislike attacks where communities will actually work together to drive up the number of dislikes on a creator's video.

So their justification for moving ahead with this particular change is that they actually did a lot of experimentation. This is something that, to my knowledge, they've been working on for the better part of a year, at least, rolling it out as kind of a test across a wide variety of different user groups and evaluating whether it changes the way that users interact with video content. And ultimately, from what I understand so far, YouTube's data suggests that there is no discernible change or maybe even a positive discernible change

to user behavior as a result of removing this particular indicator. Because now you can't tell if the video is bad until you watch the whole thing. Luke, hold on. We're playing devil's advocate right now. You need to stop. You are.

Well, I thought that we were on a wavelength here. I thought... Okay. So. on a wavelength here i thought okay so wow where do we start i just hate all of it so anywhere well okay okay first no i'm not done playing devil's advocate i need to do a little bit more devil's advocate because the devil needs an advocate that's for sure devil i, look who the devil's up against. Jesus walks on water. That's huge. God literally creates a world in six days. That's pretty big. And then chills in the hammock. Yeah. Okay. Nice. Devil, what can the devil do? Nothing. Weak. Exactly. What? Turn into a snake? Needs a lot of advocacy. Lame. Lame. Oh, I'm a snake.

Go eat an apple, bro. Yeah, exactly. What if they didn't eat the apple? Then what? They'd be useless. Exactly. Terrible. It's like, terrible. B to C tier Smash Bros character. All right, so you heard it here first.

I'm now the devil's advocate, okay? So there are smaller creators out there that are applauding this change. And no, okay, there is, there is, no, there is there is no there is a justification but see we can't that's the fundamental problem right now in the world is that people are not willing to see someone else's point of view i didn't stop you from talking and keep going bro people are not willing to put themselves in someone else's shoes and try to see it from their perspective. So yes, there are smaller creators out there

that to a far greater extent than established ones like me do suffer from these kinds of negativity bombs on their content. It's just going to move to comments. So, and that's fair. The justification here, though, is that for the smaller creators who are disproportionately

affected by dislike bombing, comments are relatively simple to moderate. OK. OK. Now let's start to break it down. Comment moderation tools on YouTube? I wish I had my bleep button because they are terrible. The automated moderation is beyond useless.

And even the manual moderation tools I requested over a year ago, okay? In my mobile creator studio app, on a comment, I can report spam um i can remove all comments from this user from my channel but for some reason i can't do both at the same time why would that be reporting spam should automatically give you an option to remove all of course it should yeah of course it should yeah because what i want to do is i want to remove all their crap from my channel because they're clearly posting unwanted commercial content. Yeah. And what I would also like to do is mark it as spam

so that I can contribute to the greater community's knowledge that this user is garbage. So hopefully they'll like click my profile for pics, please, stuff will go away. Will automatically be removed from everyone's channels. So really what we need to do, what they could have spent this development time on is developing better comment moderation tools

so that we can better moderate the discussions in our videos. Now, to be clear, I don't actually expend a lot of energy moderating discussion because we're at the point now where we've reached that critical mass where if someone comes in and they want to attack me personally or luke personally i've also always allowed that like one of our forum rules that was that essentially you could you could go after us but not other people yeah so but but what but what happens and the reason that that's okay is because if someone really does criticize us in a way that's unfair, we have a large enough supportive community that will come to our defense and will

make those arguments for us on our behalf. So we don't have to go in and reply to and moderate every single stupid comment. It's just not constructive. It just doesn't contribute anything, right? So I have the luxury of being able to have that kind of open communication policy with the community because of my position. And I have to recognize that, right? So one of the things YouTube could have done was they could have improved comment moderation tools, which they still haven't done. Now, that might be on the roadmap.

But in my opinion, based on how many, like, how is it that anyone other than Jimmy Donaldson can have Mr. Beast in their username at this point? How is it even possible? Yeah. You know, how is it that, you know, especially like looking at a community like Reddit, how is it that Reddit comments are so curated that if you sort them by top, which is the default sorting on YouTube, if you sort them by top, there is basically no garbage unless you throw on your fishing boots and wade into a particularly toxic community. Top also just for, I think, I don't know if I could say ever, but for years has just not really worked. Top on Reddit?

On YouTube. Oh, on YouTube. Well, of course not. On Reddit, it works great. So that's what I'm trying to say. You know why it works on Reddit? Because downvoting stuff is really important. It's a really valuable signal.

So let's talk about the value of the dislike signal. To be clear, I'm not saying we don't need another solution. We do need a solution to dislike bombing. One solution could be that creators on a creator by creator basis could have the ability to hide public dislikes. Or what they could have is, you know what? Maybe ultimately it comes down to, I mean, this is something I've suggested multiple times

and I'm sure it's something that they've trialed and maybe this doesn't work. But if you force people to fill out a form when they want to dislike a video, make it a chore. Why? Why do you not like this? Make it a why.

You know, turn it into use machine learning. That would actually be sweet. That would solve a lot of the reasons well i mean the dislike thing is still there um but that would directly address a lot of the reasons why i think the dislike button needs to be there is giving a reason because in some situations i think it needs to be there for for safety a lot of people go to youtube for learning how to do diy things at home if someone gives you a really bad guide that can lead you in a potentially dangerous direction, that's bad. Which is absolutely a thing. And people would

point it out and dislike the video. And then you can see like, even if it doesn't go all the way down, you can see, oh, it's controversial. It's like 50% of the way. I wonder why. Scroll down to the comments, see probably a fairly highly thumbs up comment that's like, uh, this is dangerous for like these reasons. It's really nice. And not just like physical danger, right? Like over the last month, believe it or not, I've spent a lot of time trying to find guides and tutorials for trying to get obscure things done on an operating system that most people don't daily drive, particularly for gaming. I'm going to back you up on this. I have literally used, I just thought of a use case right now. I've literally used the like to dislike ratio on videos for helping me with Linux stuff in the last month. So we probably both did that. Extensively. Yeah. When I see something that

has, and particularly on smaller videos, it's extremely helpful. When I see something that has, and particularly on smaller videos, it's extremely helpful. When I see something that has 300 views and has 20 dislikes and one like, I look at that and I'm like, see ya. And I might bookmark it for later because maybe those 20 people just couldn't follow instructions. That's entirely possible. But what it means is that I can prioritize, right? I can decide on a method of attacking this problem where I go, okay, I'm gonna go for the more likely ones first. Because a lot of really obscure solutions

that you're trying to find have a really low number of people who have ever needed to find out about it. And especially a low number of people who have ever needed to find out about it and especially a low number of people who've ever wanted to make a video about it and that particular use case just got absolutely demolished on youtube for me yeah like i already am more of a reader than a video watcher i i just i find written articles easier to skim. I find them more time efficient. Now, YouTube has taken away the one freaking tool that I had

to quickly and easily skim the validity of a video. I can no longer do it. Do you have the, this is slightly off topic, but for written articles, do you have the instinct where you go like roughly, I'm saying'm saying it, it's, it's, it happens automatically. It's muscle memory,

but I think I go like three to four paragraphs into every written article because I'm just expecting there's fluff because they want me to load the ads. Do you, you just automatically? No, no, I just, I just read, I don't see ads. I can't see them. I have a, I have a learning disability. I can't read ads. Um, so I just, I honestly just don't notice them i can't see them i have a i have a learning disability i can't read ads um so i just i honestly just don't notice them i just i'll load up anything just be like swoop over the years i've had so many people look over my shoulder or walk up to me and i'm like doing something and they're like how do you not use adblock and i'm like huh why would i need it and they're like 60 percent of your screen is covered in ads i'm like oh yeah i don't see how

about that yeah i don't know i just i can't see them okay now to be clear i don't have all the solutions here for the for the real valid problem which is people getting dislike bombed for things that are no fault of their own but i I think there are at least possibly solutions. Is this brigading? Could you moderate? If you turned every dislike into a comment, for example, could you moderate those? Could you go through and you could say, you know, I remove this, this, this, this, this, this, and this, and then it comes off of your public dislike counter?

Because that's the kind of thing that I don't think would affect tutorials, right? So I don't know. If people can remove dislikes, how would it not affect tutorials? Well, because I think a lot, I don't think, okay. I don't agree. You don't have to turn off main power.

Just be a man. It wouldn't help with anything malicious. It might help with a bad guide for replacing a light switch because that person probably hardly knows how to use the youtube dashboard or they're just like really it's it's the problem that we actually run into a lot yeah where they could be just really good yeah and so they don't have to worry about whatever thing and it wouldn't help with like some crypto scam or whatever else like that where they're they're intentionally yeah where they're intentionally trying to control uh dislikes um so i i don't i don't have a perfect solution that much is very clear um you know maybe you could make it so that there's gate like a gating a gating function

if this like hugely disproportionate number of dislikes piles up on a video in some amount of time, you could throttle it. So that's an example. You could shadow ban users' ability to dislike videos. You could just outright, I mean, as it is, my understanding is you have to log in to dislike a video anyway. So you could remove all dislikes from banned accounts. You could monitor, again, this is something that I believe a company with the resources of Google could figure out. I think that you could monitor particularly hateful or destructive users

and just shadow ban their dislikes across the entire site. That's something that I believe could be done. So I'm not saying I have the solution. I am saying that there is one and what where the dislikes that you're talking about dislike bombs is this brigading yeah so like this is a creator or a member of some community yeah like let's say a large amount let's say someone comes out as trans sure for example, and then some toxic subreddit is like,

oh, let's go dislike their video. Let's go dislike the crap out of their video and make them feel bad in a vulnerable moment. I guess that becomes more difficult. That's the kind of thing we're talking about here. I guess it becomes more difficult if it's from off-site because you were just referencing off-site. Yeah, it comes off-site, but they can track that.

They know where the traffic's coming from. If they're clicking a link from reddit and it's like hmm no one disliked this video except for 100 of the people that clicked this link that came from this source yeah they can try to figure that out maybe you can moderate um the the actions of brigading that gets spurred up by communities on youtube itself maybe you can do more for the issue instead of just being like, oh, people are using this wrong, so we're just going to take it out. NH4x4Tracker says you could make it a requirement to watch a certain portion of the video. This is actually something that I have pitched in the past. And I don't know how you would enforce that. I don't know how you would ensure that they're not bots. But what you would

absolutely be doing is you would be increasing the barrier to entry to participate in these kinds of problems. So if that is actually the problem, I believe it is a solvable one. And I believe that it's one that YouTube could maybe say, okay, temporarily, we're gonna remove the dislike counter while we engineer a solution to this.

I would accept that. True. But taking, it's a tool, right? Dislikes are a tool. They're a tool that I use as a creator. I use it to monitor sentiment on other creators' videos or topics. And your own.

Hey, is, well, I have access to my own still, right? Right. So I could look at, okay, oh. I think people aren't gonna click dislike as much though if they don't see it. Austin worked with Facebook or something like that, okay, oh. I think people aren't gonna click dislike as much though if they don't see it. Austin worked with Facebook or something like that, let's say. I don't know if Austin's worked with Facebook lately.

You know, what's the sentiment? I can take the temperature of the community. I can be like, okay, how big of a deal is it gonna be if I were to take a Facebook sponsorship, right? So obviously I've picked an intentionally controversial company right now. But that's a, obviously I've, I've picked an intentionally controversial company right now. Um, but that, that's a way that we've used it in the past. It's like, you know, Hey, these guys had a sketchy past, but it looks like they've turned over a new leaf and they're

treating their customers better. Okay. Here's a creator that just took a sponsorship from them. Are they getting roasted? And I could go down and I could read comments for days, but it's nice to be able to do a quick temperature check. So this is a tool that I use as a creator. And it's a tool that I use as a consumer of content online as well, usually in the way that you're describing it, to avoid wasting my time with content that is going to end up misleading me, whether it's unintentionally, like the expert electrician who doesn't feel like he has to turn off the's power, or whether it's intentionally with like a cryptocurrency spam or an attempt to steal my credentials, some kind of phishing scam. And that's a big problem is if YouTube invested all this engineering that they did into testing dislike removal, into figuring out how to remove the spam fake content from their site, man, that probably would have been a better use of time, I think.

So it's this tool. And tools can be used for harm, right? This is something that I was talking about in a Discord with some other creators where I basically went like, look, tools can be used for harm, but that doesn't mean that they're a bad tool. Hammers are a good tool,

but you can't guarantee it's going to hit a nail. No, you can't. So instead of throwing away our hammer, what we've decided, what we should be doing is building a safer hammer. Yeah. And I absolutely think that with the talent and intelligence of the team at YouTube, that this is something that they could do. Now I want to talk about really, for me, one of the biggest problems with this entire move.

And in my opinion, what I think is, and take this for the ignorant speech that it is, I think the far bigger reason for this is that YouTube dislikes have turned into a negative PR problem for the platform. Not just the platform, but a lot of other companies as well. If you actually think about the most communally well-known things that have been disliked, they're all corporate things. Not all.

Rebecca Black Friday, for example, is an example of community dislike bombing someone into insecurity. So let's not pretend these things haven't happened i saw someone in the chat that's like sure no that doesn't happen yes it does that's a good example so that that conversation can end now it does happen but i believe there are better solutions that don't have to completely take away this useful tool sure um but i think like the the reddit comment from back in the day um that was talking about

how with battle for i think it was battlefront 2 and i think it was talking about how if you you you would have to put like thousands of hours into the game to unlock every item or something if you didn't want to pay to buy things i don't remember exactly what it was a big world of warships controversy that was very similar where they ended up getting disliked because their holiday thing was like physically impossible to actually right i remember that yeah so like these things tons of dislikes makes them popular because their amount of dislikes there's a lot of different corporate videos on youtube that are either extremely out of touch or or like the terry crews uh amazon commercial that just went up that's a perfect example of something that

rightly um is being mocked internet-wide. Lots of things that Blizzard has ever put in video form. Lots of things from gaming companies in general, to be completely honest. It's not always a good look for companies, and it is often talked about. A news thing that I fairly often get in my feed is like so-and-so announcement video from so-and-so company is getting shrek'd by dislikes

and then i'll go watch it to figure out why people hate it so much and then i immediately understand and it's like okay cool and then i move on and this is something that could be done in the comments And this is something that could be done in the comments, but it's a waste of time. And modern people's usage of computers, you've got seconds. You've got very, very minute amounts of time. So it's very clear that YouTube's goal is to obfuscate this data.

They want to hide this data from you. Why? The answer is pretty obvious, more watch time. So you have to actually watch the content in order to figure out. So I can understand from YouTube's perspective why they might look at their data from their trials for this and go, well, everything is fine. Because from their perspective, I guess everything is fine if there's more watch time. And there might even be more viewer satisfaction because if you plugged the average viewer

in front of a YouTube browser window and we're like, okay, yeah, do your like normal thing. They're gonna go and they're gonna watch, you know, clips from the late show or they'll go and check out whatever the latest thing MrBeast uploaded is. They're gonna look at a lot of content for which the dislike counter is not relevant yeah and if anything yeah is probably really positive is probably destructive like it's it's probably good content that somebody disagrees

with and and they're going to kind of go oh yeah this is like actually this is actually a better experience but because of that they're they're ruining it for the people who actually need it. And I want to say, again, a type of a type of PR disaster that, in my opinion, dislikes have a caused but be enabled YouTube to become a better platform are maybe not common, but they absolutely occur. So let's talk about, you know, one of the most disliked videos on the platform, the, I forget which one of them it was. I'm so sorry. You're definitely different people, but one of the Paul brothers. Yeah. The, the suicide forest video. Okay. This is something we didn't really touch on at the time because it was fairly obvious that that was a spectacularly stupid thing to do.

One of the ways that media coverage of that particular event was able to snowball was based on like, oh, there's a lot of community backlash, which can be measured through dislikes. By allowing people to express their displeasure with something that a creator has done, YouTube enables communication to be not just two-way, right? They enable the viewers to communicate with each other. And I don't want to hear it right when youtube come back comes back to that's right too when youtube comes back and says well yeah but

they can communicate with each other in the comments you guys are constantly hiding the comments farther and far particularly on mobile oh yeah you are constantly hiding the comments under more and more layers of crap that I have to click on or scroll through. So I don't want to hear it, right? Dislikes are one of the ways that the community can punish and can brigade in a way that is justified behavior that is unacceptable. It's a really important tool. It is one of the few levers that a viewer community can pull to say, we are united in absolutely hating what you just did. And one of the things that I'm not going to get into... Which can be helpful sometimes. I mean, Logan Paul got 60 million views on his

I'm Sorry video. I don't want to get into YouTuber apology videos right now. That's really not the point. But what I do want to talk about is when the mistake is not just an error in judgment. I would say that the Suicide Forest video was an egregious error in judgment. But I don't think that it was, I think it was impulsive and stupid. I don't think it was malicious. that it was, I think it was impulsive and stupid. I don't think it was malicious. I don't think it was, it was, you know, sitting there the night before trying to brainstorm the most disrespectful thing you could possibly do. And then going and making a video about it the next day. I really don't think it was about that, but let's talk about when a creator does something that is

legitimately harmful. And I don't want to get into any names here because it's just not, it's not on brand for me. I'm not a YouTube drama creator. I want no part of it. But let's talk about when creators, for example, abuse their position to take advantage of a minor, which is something that has been a problem. Yeah, multiple times.

Dislike bombing, dislike brigading is one of the ways that a viewer community can signal not just to the creator but to the entire world that they do not stand with that half-assed apology or with this you know weak attempt to be like i'm back and everything's fine or whatever it is. And that's where it's not even, you're not even really like sending a command to your army to like brigade this person's video.

You're pointing out that it's egregiously horrible and people are overwhelmingly agreeing with you, which is kind of its own thing, but it's going to look exactly the same. with you, which is kind of its own thing, but it's going to look exactly the same. Hiro says removing dislikes also makes bought or botted likes less easy to notice. That is true. If you have like a 99.8% like to dislike ratio, that is something that sets off a red flag for me. If I'm,

if I'm looking at something like that, um, Faustini says, why would they just not let the creators decide if they want public dislikes on their channel? So they could do that. The issue with that is that particularly for scammers, I don't think that's a good solution because they'll be savvy enough to just hide their dislikes publicly.

Yeah. Um, good solution because they'll be savvy enough to just hide their dislikes publicly yeah um yeah i i i feel like those are the main the main issues for me are the potentially harmful videos that will not have as obvious warnings on them and And, you know, back to comments not being good enough. I mean, think about the kinds of scams you read. Like, do you read about, I don't know, I've clicked on them a few times. My Google News feed is often full of like, here's a scam that, you know, this senior citizen fell for and they lost their entire life savings to someone who fished their credentials or whatever the case may be youtube channels and stuff put it before but like way too much do not expect a non-tech savvy

user to navigate their way through that the hidden layers on top of a comment section to figure out that some guide to fixing their internet connection isn't just a phishing scam. One of the ways we can defend these people is by disliking the crap out of these videos. And I think that a lot of people have said, well, YouTube already has a solution. You can disable ratings on your videos. But I think that even a below average computer user knows that if the ratings are disabled, that's probably a bad sign. So you can't point at that as a solution for creators because I think that would really hurt their ability

to reach a broader audience. I will click off a video pretty quickly if I see ratings outright disabled. So to me, it's more a question of moderation and less a question of should they be disabled outright? Because if our solution is, well, people should should just disable them then youtube made the right move they already did it they disabled them and if you disable them for everybody then you're not singling anybody out right so i understand the rationale i understand why they did it they are just harming the community's ability to communicate and they are harming the viewer's ability to

quickly and easily filter out misleading or potentially dangerous content. That is an enormous problem and one that quite frankly, if YouTube comes to me and says, oh yeah, we totally like, we totally found that this was 100% fine. I call bullshit. You did not. I promise you, you did not. Because you didn't do this yet and scammers didn't go, oh, this is great. This is awesome. And start doubling down on their strategy

now that they know that you can't dislike bomb them out of existence anymore. Like we haven't seen the impact yet. You can't study the effect of something you haven't done not great don't like it yeah but we burnt potentially close to half the amount of time we have for the show on that so okay um i mean it might be fine these other things are you know yeah i'm i'm sorry i'm just i'm pretty passionate about this because no it's okay it cheeses me too i genuinely use a like to dislike a lot and

like you said if i see a video that has ratings or comments or both disabled i just immediately think it's like some corpo trying to hide their stuff but i'm just like see ya like it's i i i somewhat religiously follow those metrics um i will very often follow it up like if a video is super disliked i'll go to the comments and try to see why yeah because it could be disliked because they wore the wrong color of lip gloss they don't like someone's voice or something like i don't care about that yeah so like yeah i i will check why um and and i honestly think a lot of people would because people are naturally curious. So they're going to be like, okay, why is everyone so upset about this video? And sometimes it's, yeah, sometimes it's not a very good reason at all.

And sometimes it is a super good reason. And I'm very happy that I knew that it was bad. Because sometimes if I'm looking up, especially a guide, like we've referenced a bunch of times, if I'm looking up a guide, I probably don't know very much about said thing. Yeah. So I'm not going to know if the guide is bad. Yeah.

Frustrating. Can you tell me how this interface works? What do you mean? How do I make it so that it pops up there? Oh, that's not a thing yet. Oh, okay. All right. Well, we're working on that.

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at freshbooks.com slash when and finally the show is brought to you by Arm. I'm Jeff Wheelwright, tech journalist and host of the Arm Viewpoints podcast. I've been documenting the evolution of the computer industry since the birth of the PC. Having witnessed the mobile revolution firsthand, it's my pleasure to be working with Arm, the company whose technology sparked it all. We bring you the latest stories from the center of the tech world. In recent episodes, I've had fascinating conversations with executives, engineers, industry experts, and futurists from both inside and outside of Arm. We've covered topics from AI, data security, software-defined vehicles, robotics, and cybercrime to the promise of 5G and the future of healthcare. And we're just getting started. Join me as we speak with an ever-expanding roster of the people at the heart of technology as we explore the evolving world

of computing. Download and subscribe to Arm Viewpoints at Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google, or wherever you get your podcasts. Okay, I'm all, I think I'm all. It's good. I think people should be worked up about this kind of stuff because as we've seen, sometimes if part of the community is upset about something, it can be a little bit difficult to reach through the noise. And YouTube's got one heck of a community.

So- I have a call- Making a noise is good. On Tuesday. About this or just in general? I will be speaking to the product manager who worked on this. Cool.

I feel like I need to kind of gather my thoughts, even a little more than i did now and make sure that i'm in a good headspace i don't think that what i'm saying is going to change anything um i doubt it i i doubt it too the fact that they've been working on this for a year means that ultimately i i don't think my voice matters in all of this but the fact that they're at least giving me an opportunity to talk about it, I feel like it would be irresponsible for me to not present my side and explain why it's really important to me and why I would, I would love for us to find another solution. And, you know, like I said, I would be, I would be happy if YouTube came and said, okay, look, we're going

to turn it off for six months while we, while we dev something better. I'd be like, okay, look, we're going to turn it off for six months while we dev something better. I'd be like, okay, now we're compromising. Now we're working together on this instead of you just taking something that is really valuable to me because it's harming someone else. I don't want someone else to be harmed. 100%. And again, the people denying that that's happening, you're living in a bubble. It happens. It definitely a thing it's 100 a thing i mean you got to understand like i wasn't always a 10 million subscriber creator right i've seen it i've i've done something totally innocuous innocuous like having kind of a high-pitched voice and been attacked for it for years for years actually yeah like and some other stuff which was it which was all bs like it used to

actually yeah to back line us up it used to kind of cover lgt comment sections like it was it was actually pretty intense and so so like i i get it and i understand that we have to make the platform a safer place, not because, oh, people can't stand to have their feelings hurt or whatever, but because we want it to be a vibrant and growing community. We want utterly unique content to proliferate on the channel because otherwise it's going to stagnate. It is in my best interest for YouTube to have as many creators telling as many totally different stories as

possible because that rising tide is going to lift all ships i'm into it i think there's a better solution yeah all right why don't we move on lyrics oh we shot part four uh yesterday and today yeah so should we should we kind of spoil it for them like what do you want to do do you want to tell an anecdote that is not making it into the video maybe or there's actually quite a few of those guys so here why don't i lay this out okay luke and i tackled part four of the challenge which is game compatibility a little differently my way was a cop out i'm gonna own that i'm gonna own that okay sure my way was a bit of a cop out but other than you know trying a couple of games that i don't

normally play you did try stuff and we also in your defense we also played a bunch of random games yes yeah so i did that yeah like i just played games that i wanted to play the way that i normally would but luke actually really like notes of the grindstone massive props for this by the way thank you went through the most popular games on twitch sort of filled set did a sanity check on them and tried to come up with like 20 games that are the games people are playing and instead of relying on proton db to just say oh these are the most popular games or whatever else like really put some thought into okay what are the most popular games and then really set out to get them running so this video is going to end up kind

of split up the way that i think part two we did it like that where we kind of talked back and forth yeah so this one's going to be even more like that where i'm going to talk through okay well here's what i generally observed in my in my comings and goings just trying to live my life playing some video games sometimes and then luke's going to be like okay i tried this list of games and these are the specific problems that i ran into and this is this is this is what happened so like one big bomb that is in that video yeah but it's probably not coming out for like three weeks people might forget by then anyways um but pro time db is super cool yes but we were trying to find a list of popular games that wasn't on steam that's why we use twitch and and yes we understand twitch is not a conclusive list of the most popular games

what makes a good game for streaming does not necessarily mean that it's going to be super popular with the community but the top 20 games at least at the time that i checked on steam were very big name games that i know a lot of people play 50 exactly are not on steam yeah 50 of those top 20 games one of of them was Rocket League, which I'm not counting as on Steam because you cannot currently buy it. Because it's not on Steam anymore. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

So that's a lot. That was honestly more than I expected. It used to be. I was looking at Valve's goal, right? Of having 100% of the Steam library playable on the Steam Deck when they ship it. And I was like, wow, that's cool. And that's a lot of games. That could keep you busy for multiple lifetimes yeah realistically it really could but when it

comes to the games that other people are playing when we talk about the social aspect of gaming sharing experiences right like there's a reason that when eternals comes out right you don't want to be the only person in your friend group that didn't go see it right away. Maybe you don't even care about that movie that much, but you want to know what everybody else is talking about. When your favorite gaming creator makes a video that's full of inside references

or jokes about the Battlefield 2042 beta, you want to get the joke, right? Yeah. And so that's one of the things that's really challenging. As much as you could play games for multiple lifetimes just within the Steam library, and if Valve does get that going, that's freaking awesome.

When it comes to being a part of gaming culture, it's not the whole answer. There's more to it than that. So, okay. gaming culture it's not the whole answer there's more to it than that so okay how'd compatibility go with your 20 games oh boy i think i think we might get into spoiler territory um it wasn't probably as good as a lot of people would think one one problem that you have when you get off of Steam is that the launchers are kind of trash. In my experience, universally bad. Yeah, like it's rough. One time my computer was just straight up lagging out and I couldn't figure out what was going on.

And then I was just closing random things one by one and then assessing to try to figure out what was lagging out. It was the Epic Games launcher. A lot of different launchers have an issue where they just force themselves to front. It's got a fast SSD. A lot of launchers have an issue where they force themselves to front for no apparent reason. The Blizzard launcher, for me,

elements just won't load until I mouse over them. A lot of them require, not a lot of them, at least one i believe to require at least for me oh that's one of the issues talking about linux stuff is there so it's just like different fragmented ways you can run things that like who knows maybe it isn't for someone else but at least for me there's there's at least one or two launchers that if they update just need a complete new reinstall which which is just annoying. Steam, yeah, Steam runs great. Mostly.

Mostly. Yeah, there are some issues. I mean, we had that issue with remote play, where if I right-clicked your username and invited you that way, it worked. But if I got the link and copied it to you, which is supposed to work, that did not work. This is another one of the issues, too, though,

is that like these things and i hope people understand that we both do understand this is these things obviously also have issues on windows oh yeah windows is a piece of garbage yeah we get it yeah if anything this challenge you know what maybe that's what we should do maybe part four is not the end so i was talking to james about this today and i what we should do. Maybe part four is not the end. So I was talking to James about this today, and I think we should have a part five where we actually get like a crew of Linux evangelists. We pull in, we grab Anthony, we pull in Wendell from Level One Text,

we pull in like Jason Evangelo, someone like that, right? And we basically get them to sit and do like a VFX artists react, and evangelo yeah someone like that right and we basically get them to sit and do like uh like uh like a vfx artists react kind of like a corridor crew style you know they don't we you don't see the entire series being watched by them right because that's boring but you might they might find certain clips and go through like they watch the whole challenge and kind of go yeah they were right about this they were totally wrong about this i think they overlooked how bad this is on windows and mac os

or whatever it else whatever else it is and they they critique our journey through the challenge i think that would be great for a part five but then maybe part six part 69 you I, you and I do Linux challenge part six. We install Windows, but try to look at it through the eyes of a Linux user or through the eyes of a fresh user and try to find, try to catch ourselves with every workaround. Like there's some rough stuff. There's some some rough stuff. There's been really rough stuff. There's been a bug in the Windows installer where if you have two drives, right? And you pick one of them, there is a roll an eight sided die chance

that the secondary drive will end up with your bootloader. So if you pull out your secondary drive, your main drive, which has your entire operating system on it, other than the bootloader won't boot anymore yeah and the process for fixing that is complete and utter black magic like it can be done but it is it is a freaking nightmare you know if i come out and i say look anything that you must do through command line is that if the average gamer has to do something through command line then you're done right like

if i'm gonna say that then i can absolutely say to microsoft if any user ever has to do this you're done goofed you suck it's that simple there's also so bad windows update it's so bad it's so bad it's shocking like it's It's shocking. Like, tell me this. It's actually stunning. Tell me this, okay? For all the technological marvel that Windows is, like, let's not pretend it isn't. Sure, yeah, yeah. It's an amazing piece of software.

The fact that it works as well as it does is a bloody miracle when you consider the forward and backward compatibility of the platform. It's amazing. How could it possibly be? How could it possibly be? How could it possibly be that when I click check for updates, that is not instantaneous?

Yeah. How could you possibly not know what the updates on my system are and what the updates on your cloud server are in milliseconds. It takes an actually awkward amount of time. It really does. I'm sitting there sometimes going like, really?

Like I've actually never had to check for updates on Mint. Mint just has this very nice little notification with a very tiny little dot that'll tell me if there's new ones. And if I feel like it i'll download and install them and it's never a problem i always know if they're there windows i have to manually check or if it's just or it's just gonna try to like restart and bork all my stuff at random times it's just like oh man so frustrating it's just baffling um so so yeah what do you think of that we we do like we try to go fresh eyes maybe i'll go windows 11 because like okay here's something here's something that frustrated me on linux um for whatever reason um when so open vpn okay yeah so sorry someone in chat just said it took

11 seconds right now for them to find their windows updates. How is that even possible? Sorry, okay, keep going. How is it possible, you know? So, right. So, oh, what was I saying? Oh, yeah, OpenVPN. So, OpenVPN in Manjaro Linux is as simple as right-clicking on your network connection and being like, oh, I want to use OpenVPN.

Now, I didn't actually manage to get it working. I spent a grand total of 15 seconds troubleshooting it. So the problem was that it wanted a pre-shared key and a passphrase or something like that. And I was like, huh. Normally when I connect to this, I only use a username and password and that's not what this is.

So I guess I, and it involved like going into our our pf sense box and like okay exporting a new thing or something i just i was like ah you know what i died i'm like nine days from the end of the challenge i'm gonna par second to my work machine i don't even care sorry um so i i didn't bother but if i if I was used to that workflow, what I can tell is that it would be super simple to quickly authenticate and connect to an open VPN connection, which is awesome. On Windows, it's like kind of a pain in the ass. It kind of sucks. application and when you connect to it um i've got this weird issue with windows explorer where if i don't wait for the connection to completely finish and i try to access a network share on the remote network yeah i will have to disconnect close open vpn open it again sometimes i have to do a full dance where I have to restart explorer.exe.

Then I have to open OpenVPN, connect, wait patiently, and then do it again because just reconnecting or just opening a new Explorer window will not work. It will just not load. Like there are problems with Windows.

Tried to play Forza. Okay, we're back to problems with Linuxux now no oh yeah actually this is like have you installed windows already uh i'm technically done the challenge so i didn't install windows because i just had both drives in got it okay so i just booted when i was literally i pulled my windows drive out so i wouldn't be tempted i was i was back on that's funny i also didn't want to deal with dual booting. I was like, I'm not going to learn Grub. Oh.

I'm sorry. I just will not. I ended up, I thought I was going to have to mess with it. I didn't have to do anything. It just worked perfectly right out of the box. Yay. I wanted to play Forza, so I booted into Windows. That's pretty much all I actually used it for.

I was back on Linux literally today. Yeah. So whatever. But I'm technically done the challenge, so I can do that. Funnily enough, I ended up reading a tweet after I was done playing Forza that someone got Forza working on Linux. It took them five days, which is like amazing. And also terrible. Yeah.

And also terrible. Yeah. But it was such a pain to try to play with other people because Microsoft's weird obfuscated stuff these days, a lot of the like user panels and ways things work are actually just really, really odd. And this is coming from someone who has used Windows forever. Yeah. Trying to multiplayer with people in Forza is really difficult.

And we ended up all needing to like download additional applications and all this kind of stuff. Like it was a nightmare. Did I talk about how horrible it was playing Minecraft Dungeons with my kids? Really fun game. Right?

Because I had to create Microsoft accounts for them, but they're like junior accounts. And even their parent was not automatically enabled to play online games with them. So I had to go and navigate. It took me like two hours to get it all going between buying the game for all my kids and setting up the accounts

and setting up the parental things. Cause it's, you have to, there's two different things. First, I had to make it so that we could actually be friends. Then we were friends, but like the button just wasn't there. So I had to make it so that and there's ways that microsoft could absolutely make that experience way better right like they could have the online button and then kind of like it works on android if my kids want to install an app it'll just send me a notification i'll be like yes yeah there is no reason why minecraft dungeons

couldn't just if they go to play online have a a button that they ask for permission. And then I could accept it on a case-by-case basis if I didn't want them on all the time. Or I could say yes all the time or whatever. There's no reason that those systems can't be better. And I've got someone here. Let me have a look at this. Jamie says, I feel like the problem with Windows is being exaggerated a bit. Well, for sure. But the problems with everything are exaggerated a bit i don't even necessarily just i don't even necessarily agree i should say actually yeah that's fair i don't think it's being exaggerated this there's a lot of stuff in windows that is really straightforward because it's been really straightforward for 10 years but there's a lot of stuff with windows where they're trying to like any time microsoft has

tried to get into the gaming space on PC, which I know is, like, kind of weird to say because they made DirectX, but you know what I mean. The more, like, consumer usage side of the gaming space. It's been really bad. Yeah. And honestly, just stop trying to remake the wheel. Forza is a fantastic game. Been having tons of fun. The worst part was trying to play with other people, which is really weird because, like,

a theme of the game is like, oh, we family we're a community let's all like race together and you can't play with your friends um when i bought it on steam it it feels like they're they're they're like literally five plus years behind on a lot of stuff and i i really appreciate that they're trying to do this like cross-platform thing so you can own a game for computer or or own a game for console and play it on both that's very cool either don't get your little grubby little hands on like the friends list and stuff that make the experience really bad yeah or just do it right. I know you can. Yeah. I know you're capable. You're a multi-billion dollar company.

I'm sure you can figure it out. Yes. I have the Xbox app. I shouldn't have to download the Xbox game bar in order to invite my friends to games. Stop it. Also, I couldn't even log into the game at first. Oh, I've had that issue before issue before too where you literally cannot do anything because their authentication servers don't microsoft account and you're stuck staring

at it like screen like the the car going right i had to go into some like weird credential manager and like delete a bunch of stuff and then eventually i had to say sign in with windows hello which i don't have set up and then it just worked because it's like bugged out like oh man sure what a terrible experience anyways sure uh we should probably talk about the amd amd data center tech sure so genoa and bergamo bergamo i'm sorry i don't know how to pronounce that uh genoa is going to have up to 96 zen 4 cores and bergamo i'm so, I'm butchering this, up to 128 Zen 4C cores. So those are cloud optimized ones where the idea here is that AMD is going after some of these ARM based chips that companies like Amazon are building for themselves and kind of going,

whoa, whoa, whoa, hold on a second. x86 ain't cooked yet ladies and gentlemen i am pretty excited to see how these perform and if they end up shaking things up uh genoa is set for 2022 with bergamo late 2022 or early 2023 they'll both feature ddr5 pcie gen 5 among other things and uh one other big highlight is the AMD Instinct MI250 Accelerator card. Pretty cool. Blah, blah, blah. They didn't show AI benchmarks. That's kind of suspicious, says Nicholas Plouffe, who prepared this for us. And I think that's pretty much it because I have to go pretty soon.

But we said we'd talk about Microsoft releases SE products. So what is this? I don't know on wednesday microsoft announced two products taking aim at chrome os's incursion in elementary schools surface laptop se and windows 11 se it's gonna be a fight yeah gonna be a fight yeah what does se even stand for? Second edition? I don't think so. Because it's like an educational product thing. The notes don't have it.

All right. I don't want to talk about the pinch to zoom court of law thing. I just don't want to touch that with a 10-foot pole. Yep, sounds good. Let's jump over to lttstore.com because we've got something pretty cool for you guys this is a product that has been in the works for like a year um it's the party shirt oh yeah yeah it's kind of cool edition and it's super comfortable check it out it's got little gpus and cpus and ssds and ram sticks and power supplies and fans on it i genuinely think this is really cool i like it too because it especially like it it looks

pretty pro you know yep i love it and a lot of people like showing off their like guys suits are pretty you know cookie cutter a lot of the time yeah but with the little pattern on your shirt and the pattern on your tie you can often show off a little bit of personality exactly exactly yeah it's cool um also oh this is fun the uh latest edition of the newsletter is out and kyle who you actually just saw wearing the party shirt with his beautiful smile and long hair was our was our kind of wrote our feature story today not everything our team works on is directly related to making something you might hold in your hands one day there's a lot of testing and analysis that goes on behind the scenes Kyle's omni-directional speaker is a perfect example so regular viewers of short circuit would know that when we built the new set uh we had this awful echo and reverberation um this can be a huge headache to fix but in this case the fix

was simple just move the microphone the way we figured this out science look at this look at this look at this speaker oh that's sweet so you can buy these you can buy these pre-done but kyle was like no f that that's expensive and built one um buy these. You can buy these pre-done. But Kyle was like, no, F that. That's expensive. And built one. It's called the Death Star Speaker. And it has one function, to make noise in all directions, which is kind of the opposite of what the Death Star did. But whatever, minor details.

Just one direction. So it's a dodecahedron. There's an Instructables on how you can build this. After a bunch of hours 3D printing, a day in the workshop, and some jank, out came a working omnidirectional sound maker. And combining this with a calibrated USB microphone and an open source software package called Roo, we can take relatively accurate acoustic readings. So we used this to fix the reverb in the short circuit set. We also used it, and you can see the graph from the LTT video acoustically treating the workshop, to pretty much fix the awful audio in the workshop and to quantify just how much we fixed it.

So he's got a bunch more details in here about how that works. And oh, by the way, you know, also we sell stuff. Hey, that's a thing too. But this is such a great example of what i want this newsletter to be so make sure you guys sign up over at ltdstore.com so you can uh you can check these out um we we do need to do a few merch messages but i cannot stay for that long because otherwise i will get um low murdered um is this a page that i can share or no uh what if i do this uh i think that's okay unless there's a message on here that's bad oh yeah right let's not do that

all right ryan what's the story or reason behind the original names for your servers where did the name wanek server come from uh wanek is a town i grew up in there you go uh noah love the merch my manager was on everyone's behinds but not having branded jackets at work but didn't bat an eye at my stealth hoodie keep up the great work that's the goal dude is the point that's why it's called the stealth hoodie you can rep ltt without you know causing a scene um also we actually have it in stock unlike wan hoodie so please please settle please settle. Please settle for Stealth Hoodie. Aiden, what video did you want to recreate or redo from the older days, now that you have a larger team and more resources?

Oh, man. Well, here's one that we're actually working on. Anthony wrote, and I heavily contributed to a video called The Last PC Build Guide You Will Ever Need. And basically, it doesn't lay out a list of parts at all what it does is it lays out foundational principles for choosing your parts lays out foundational principles for how to research and lays out foundational principles for how to build a pc with all the sort of icky-picky little details in there, but not assuming the presence or absence of any of them.

Right. It is going to probably be a two to two and a half hour video. But it will be the last PC build guide you ever need. That's pretty cool. We talked through just everything. What are form factors? Oh, you know what? I got to ping him. We didn't talk about power supply form factors. last pc build guide you ever need that's pretty cool we talked through just everything what are form factors oh you know what i gotta i gotta ping him we didn't talk about power supply form factors what about a truly successful whole room water cooling um uh okay so that that's not what

this is hold on one sec i need to do this we need to include a chunk about power supply form factors in the last guide you'll ever need video. To be clear, I'm not referencing the last guide you ever need. I'm talking about the original question. Yes. Okay. Oh, my goodness. I swear this used to be super hard. I'm going to try to get through some super chats while you still have it.

Okay, I'm done. No, but we have some new capabilities that might make it so we could do something even better. Alex and Brian, the electrician worked on a phase change cooler that we think could be daily drivable at like minus 20 degrees Celsius, which is pretty interesting. And one of the other ways we're considering using it is a chilled box. So you don't have to deal with condensation. other ways we're considering using it is a chilled box. So you don't have to deal with condensation. The crazy thing about custom liquid cooling is that it can actually cost as much as an air conditioner. It doesn't cost anything to run on an ongoing basis, but with an air conditioned, like chilled computer case, like it's like a, it's like a fridge on steroids, right? Like you

can't build a computer in a fridge because the compressor can't handle that kind of heat output. It's not designed for it. Not just the compressor, but the condenser. It's just, it can't handle it, right? It's not designed for that kind of heat outlet. It's designed to keep something cold, not make something that is heating, generating heat cold. So this is that, but on steroids.

So that's, I mean, that's an idea. That's something. Let's move on. Let's move on. This is the perfect gift for my girlfriend, says's an idea. That's something. Let's move on. Let's move on. This is the perfect gift for my girlfriend, says Vitoro. Hey, fantastic. Dimitri says, give Anthony his own Linux channel already.

I mean, we can just make more Linux content on the other channels. No promises there. Paul says, can Luke model more shirts? I think he's closest to my height. Okay, that depends. He'll have to work through that with Hoffman, who takes all those pictures. Barry, hey, thanks for giving me something to look forward to. Hey, thanks, Barry.

Mitro asks, who are your user experience rants directed at? Distros are built by users the way they like it. You personally did not contribute. Why do you think you have the right to tell other users that they are wrong? Those who don't give back don't have a say. Hey, Dimitro, you lost the game. Sorry, bro, but thanks for ordering a stealth hoodie. Okay, I'm sorry. I'll try that again. As a user, you are allowed to talk about the user experience. That is all the credentials that you need. And in fact, a lot of the time, creators can end up too close to a project

to properly appreciate the user experience of someone who didn't create it. That is one of the core problems that Linux suffers from, is that the users are the developers. And so it's really hard for them to know how to design for a more general user that's who i am feeling like i i have the right to talk about the user experience i'm a user um arvin hey could you add an option to switch between metric and imperial and ltd store is that something we're looking at at all um we haven't yet but maybe at some point could yeah um anonymous been following along with the linux challenge and i'm not going to turn back for a

good while went with endeavor os that's super cool nice i've heard good things uh techie tech quickie calendar is not coming for 2022, but we'll probably do one for 2023. Basically, it's designed, but we didn't hit the printing cutoff. Whoops. Any updates on the Hammer asks, William E. No, actually.

And I checked literally within the last week. Thanks, David R. Okay. I'm sorry. I can't do more merch messages. If Luke wants to stay and do some, I really do have to go or I will get murdered by my wife. I can do that. Okay.

Are you able to lock up? Yeah. Okay. It's just been a long time. Call me if you need any help. Okay, sweet. Okay. Bye, everyone.

Bye. I'm staying. Right. You know how to kill it, right? I think so. Okay, sweet. Okay, bye, everyone. Bye. I'm staying. Right. You know how to, like, kill it, right? I think so. Okay. Can you turn that towards me? Just hit intro auto to run the thing, and then this to do the thing.

Oh, just, like, manually move myself over there? Oh, but you have to stop the YouTube thing first. Okay. Hold on. Are we off my page? Yeah, so you have to press this end stream first before killing that. And then that.

Okay. Okay, bye. Okay, bye. You're all mine now. Okay, let's go through some things. Jonathan Q, thank you so much for all the tips and knowledge. You helped me go from someone building a PC to someone intelligently building PCs for myself friends and family your whole team is

amazing keep up the amazing work it's probably more directed at Linus but I appreciate it thank you very much uh Eric you hi Linus get wrecked the backpack looks great but there are sorely few large messenger style tech bags. Any chance you could make my next messenger bag? That's more of a question for Nick, by the way. If you guys have like store requests and stuff like that, honestly, I straight up don't remember his handle. I'm pretty sure it's NickLMG. I don't exactly memorize people's Twitter handles. Don't remember his handle. I'm pretty sure it's Nick LMG. Um, I don't exactly memorize people's Twitter handles. Um, but Nick runs the store. Like let's, let's not get it

twisted. Um, yeah, Nick LMG. So you're way better off if you just reach out to Nick and to be completely honest, that even includes store features. Like you want that like Imperial metric thing, reach out to nick um nick is the the ultimate deciding factor for things that happen on the store whether it's merch or uh features because he will essentially like tell me and then i'll tell conrad and then conrad will do it um so yeah just do it that way 15 minute float plane adplane ad? Yeah, yeah, subscribe to floatplane. I inserted a little floatplane call out in the Linux video. It was fun.

Moving on, though. Walter E. Thank you for your content. You should get slash consult with an audio engineer. Yeah, I don't think we should get one. Doing a consult could be pretty interesting. There are many things we, I'm an audio engineer audio engineer could work on especially your new audio booth yeah i mean if we're going to build an audio booth we would consult with someone who knows what they're doing um e and l i've been a viewer for around

eight years around the time that i started my career in tech support all the work you guys have done uh over the years providing interesting and educational content around tech. If your team ever does anything in Australia, I'll be there. Heck yeah. Ben M bought some underwear and a water bottle and said, finally, underwear without holes. There you go. You'll enjoy them. I pretty much exclusively wear LTT underwear these days i'm not kidding i'm wearing them right now um and it's they're great james bought an ltd hoodie said ltd should team with g4 for something that could be interesting jonah says greetings from germany joseph says hydration check long time watcher. Glad to have finally been able to catch one of

these live. I am a hydro homie, but that's Linus's water bottle, not mine. And COVID's a thing, so I'm not going to partake. There's also other reasons to not partake, but whatever. I forgot my water bottle, but yeah, I'm going to glug up when I get home. Michael, greetings from Winterpeg. Man, it's cold yeah yeah i got some some relatives over there sure is it's not nearly as cold over here i actually wish it was colder over here okay um i think there's a video software company adam c do you think there's value in doing a video of a software company tour probably not um. You could go over different departments like sales, customer service, dev, ops.

Probably actually interesting. And talk about things like AWS and infrastructure. My company, Benevity, uses our tech to help donating to charity, to help make donating to charity easier and more efficient.

That's good. Nice. I'm happy you guys do that. Nathan says, hey, Linus. Never going to get old. Love the show. You guys literally got me through college. Would y'all be interested in doing more networking level content?

Probably not at a super high level. Just saying. more networking level content probably not at a super high level um just saying but maybe they would i don't know not my team alexander l i work right now as a sound designer on a musical but hope to catch this in the vod keep up the good work and tell luke he's a cutie i will uh he says thank you robert m hello and welcome to the wan show have any have a listen now anything tech news you think of can be found we've got mountains of tech news some better some worse if okay i get it. Okay, it's the internet song. I don't know if I can sing along with it well enough, though. Yeah, I'm not good enough to do that, but very clever. Moving on.

Scrapyard Wars anytime soon? No. If not Scrapyard Wars, if not Scalper Yard Wars, maybe. Probably not. It's the series. Yeah, it's a little tried at this point. As much as Scrapyard Wars is my baby. We've done the format a lot. I could see it maybe coming back. There's, there's still a few more things. The last one was a little rough. Um, there's still a few more things we could do. It takes a lot of people. It takes a lot of time. It takes a lot of editing. Um, and they're not quite performing as well as they used to because the, it's a little bit tired of a formula to be completely honest. Um, as much as it hurts to say, because I love scrapyard wars as well. Um, right now is a really hard time for it. And Linus and I are difficult people to use for it. I might actually be easier these days

because I feel like less people probably know me now. Um, but Linus is so freaking recognizable that it's, it's genuinely very difficult to, to do scrapyard wars. Um, I don't know if I could say honestly, because it's not like you'd be intentionally cheating, but like people are going to treat you better if they, if they recognize you from the interwebs or worse, but usually better. Um, Devin L got closure last show on bad time, bad channel. You'd been saying bat time forever. Luke said bad time once. Linus said it was wrong. Later, Linus says bad time. Luke called him out for it and Linus denied it was ever bat time. Luke was right. I don't remember any of that, but I'll take it. I'll take the W. Miguel. I love to wear fun shirts to work on Fridays, so I can't wait

to add this to my collection. Oh, he got the party shirt. Nice. Okay. Thanks for everything you do for LMG. Thanks for everything you and LMG do. There we go. Sorry, dyslexia. You sparked my love for tech three years ago, and now I have a job in it and love it fantastic josh looking at the spreadsheet from the hdmi video you guys only tested six 15 foot cables all from monoprice based on this information uh you guys are saying that using a passive cable over 10 feet is asking for trouble is there and then i think they pressed enter on accident oh no there's a character cap comrade does it just let them keep typing i hope that's not the case i don't think that's the case

they just sort of stopped mid-sentence so So I'm just going to move on. Morgan. Linus, you inspired me to become a tech YouTuber and try to get out of my crappy job. To thank you, I solved your issue with wireless keyboards in a... What? Search something? Okay, cool. Dimitro. Oh, I hope I'm saying that right.

Binaries for Linux are dynamically compiled so there can't be just can't be just linux binary they're separate for each distro there isn't even a choice you must pick a distro with a higher user base ubuntu or experience pain saying you have to so this is this is something i've I've gathered a lot more feels on that aren't actually going to be able to make it into the videos because honestly, part four, Linux part four is massive. Just my portion of Linux part four is honestly about the length of a lot of videos that I used to make. Um, and Linus has a just as long or potentially even longer portion of that video. Um, and these types of thoughts aren't in it. Um, but I, I disagree. I even disagree. I disagree with so

many different points of this. I even disagree with the idea of experiencing pain, uh, because I don't think it's all pain. Um, I think an extremely valid way to experience Linux is with no prior experience whatsoever, dive directly into Arch and get owned. And I don't necessarily think that's painful. I think, I think, I wish Linus was actually here because this is what I wanted to talk about with Linux today, but we ran out of time. There's this conception that I think has been pushed forward on WAN to some degree, which is where everything has to be user-friendly from a general user standpoint. And I don't agree with that. We have talked about this and I have brought this up in the past.

There can be hyper-enthusiast versions. And nerfing those to make them more normie friendly is not a good thing especially when you're on a platform that has such a breadth of of flavors right so for me i want a game on it i i honestly just don't really want my operating system to get in my way i have a lot of things to get done. I'm either like diving into a game with my friends or diving into work. And if I'm not, honestly, I probably just want to hang out with my birds. Messing with my operating system was something that I used to do a ton when I was growing up and it's not really something I do that

much anymore. So Mint is great for me. Ubuntu would probably also be great for me. I'm just not a huge fan of GNOME 3. I like Cinnamon's take on GNOME 2. I'm very happy with Mint. Things are good. But if I was trying to learn Linux, like really learn it, my approach would probably be to start with one of these advanced user distros like potentially arch and throw myself in the fire and it wouldn't be pain it would be effective learning because you're you're forcing yourself to to really absorb this stuff and really learn it deeply and thoroughly and that's good that can be very good and honestly has a high amount of potential to make future actual pain not as bad because you have a deeper and more proper understanding of what you're using uh one of my infrastructure guys at flowplane

aj essentially said that one of the best ways to start with linux would be to start without a gui just um start with a command line only and he's not when i first read that i was like what the heck but it's aj so i had to like think about it more because he's a really smart dude so i thought about it more and was like you know what in a lot of ways yeah because you're you're learning the the like hyper power user way to do this thing and that makes a lot of sense so yeah i don't agree with your your your point entirely. Anyways, that was an extremely long answer. I'm going to move forward. Um, Sinead, my husband is watching right now. Uh, I think he looked you more than me. Ha get wrecked. Your husband is mine now.

Uh, Michael YouTube moderation is trash. Yep. is mine now. Michael, YouTube moderation is trash. Yep. Lawrence, these LTT cable ties are so much more useful than just for the inside of a computer case. That's true. I just keep finding more and more uses for them. This is my third batch of 20 looking forward to more gaming on Linux videos. Heck yeah. There's no such thing as more people working together on a single goal in open source software decentralization is the key because people disagree i would just quit and pick another hobby rather than argue with someone okay Okay. Bryson B. Anime voice actor Bryson Bogus confirmed Linus fan. Hey, nice. Built a mini ITX PC themed after my character Shouyou. Oh my, I'm so sorry, but I'm going to try. Shouyo Hinata from Haikyuu. I have no idea. Sorry if I hurt people there. David, Linus, thank you so much. I have never got any other YouTube or streamer merch, but I got y'all's

desk pad. Very good quality. I hope this shirt will also be good quality. It will be. I can pretty much guarantee it. And if it's not, not contact support um chat please buy the merch to help support them ltdstore.com heck yeah luke n nice name by the way bruh uh grabbing the stormtrooper bottle so i don't have to worry about hitting anything with it very nice also star wars fan i like it oh another one from dimitro who do your user rants directed at distros are built by ah this is the one that um line is already addressed alas i've no i'm gonna pause alas to dare hopefully i'm saying your name correctly and address this again i find the linux community is a difficult thing to address because any community that has the any community that anyone at any time can claim to be a be a part of based on nothing is is gonna have a lot of different voices and

they're not all gonna agree with each other and they're gonna react to things different ways and all that kind of stuff so i have to be careful when i say the linux community but i find there's a lot of personal hurt defensiveness when any criticisms are sent towards linux stuff in general or the linux community in general what i hope that people understand is we were genuinely trying to give this a very good shot. And there was, I think the conclusions and stuff are going to be more positive than you guys necessarily expect. When we're sitting here on WAN Show, we're coming off of like a day or a night or whatever of fighting with it. And we're frustrated about various things. But this isn't the edited, tailored version of our thoughts and stuff.

So, so stick, stick with it, stick with it. The conclusion's pretty strong. Okay. We've shot part four. I know I read it. It's there. Um, I last dare. Hopefully I'm saying this correctly. Please sign my bottle. Ooh, that's probably not going to happen. Sorry. Along with the person who picked and shipped. That'd be pretty cool. But this is, yeah, sorry. Love you guys. Don't ever change. Honesty and transparency.

There it is. Honest and transparent. Benjamin, thank you so much, Linus. Thank you for over seven years of entertainment and for giving me countless examples of how to just be a good person. Dang. Heck yeah. Cedric.

Is that correct? Cedric. Cedric. Hello from province of Quebec. Hashtag float plane home. Kind of true. Yeah. Peter S.

I've made 3K mining with my gaming hardware since you suggested on a WAN. Thanks man. LTD SPAD rocks. Heck yeah. Sounds good. I've got a buddy who has a 3090 he might even be watching right now i'm not sure um and he he games and he works from home um and he runs just a nice hash thing i'm not recommending nice hash be very clear i have no idea what i'm talking about don't listen to me uh but he runs i believe it's just a nice hash nice hash thing on his on his 3090 and he's made like a grand in the

last like two and a half three months okay okay it's a thing anonymous says hey linus have you found a headphone amp for your hd8xx yet? I have no idea. I'm sorry. I would recommend the, okay, sounds good. The HiFi M8 V2, just in case anyone's wondering. Philip, thanks for all the years I've watched. Thank you for the quality of the stealth, like the beanie being US Air Force, they require our uniform to be black with black logos. It's impossible to find quality like this, but your stuff never disappoints. Thanks again. I look forward to the backpack. That's really interesting.

I never thought about that because there's not just, okay, so US Air Force requires black uniform with black logos. So I believe film sets also do. And there's other industries that do as well. That's pretty interesting. I didn't realize that portion of the benefit of the stealth products on the store. That's actually really cool. Jake J, loving the content. Are we going to have an LTX 2022? I think they're trying. I can't say officially. I'm literally not a part of that company, but I think they're trying. I think they're attempting to get LTX ltx 2022 off the ground but covid makes things difficult we don't know if it's still going to be around then who knows has jacob banned the minecraft server i don't think so i

don't know uh loving the short clips on flowplane flowplane gang heck yeah um cool'll legit do anything in the world to have linus sign my banana i feel like we should have like a assigned banana option um i wonder how difficult nick would know i wonder how difficult it would be to get like an rgb banana maybe maybe one of each one of the panels of the banana is a different color because i think it has different panels. And then sell those and they get signed or something. I don't know. They'd have to be like really expensive.

Because that adds a lot of complication to like the whole process. Like it actually really does. So they'd have to be like genuinely really expensive. Because you wouldn't want to do a ton of them. It adds a lot of complication. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But I don't know. Anonymous says shipping costs more than the book so he bought an abcs of gaming book and he also got a lanyard and a desk pad and a pillow um shipping costs more than the book so

i got other stuff too also you need a place to sign up for notifications for when products are available for sale like the screwdriver okay so we have back in stock notifications, which don't work that great. We're using an external thing. And if we make a V2, like a different version, like we release the V2 of the water bottle, it's extremely painful to the point where we didn't actually get it to work to have notifications go out for that,

which is frustrating. So we might end up making our own. But we have back in stock notifications, but we don't have notifications for like pre-items i don't even know how i would word that um but maybe maybe an idea for the future anonymous's ltt party shirt excited to wear ltt at the office ties anytime soon no idea go bug nick though on twitter he's your man myron miran myron miran uh love the show man any new info on the framework stuff i don't know sorry um uh ps merch messages 100 awesome idea nice conrad's idea i believe

luke and the boys done good heck yeah good job Conrad Thomas says Luke is the best I will tell him thank you uh Benjamin says make more button-up shirts love this yeah honestly I think it's super cool I I know a lot of people are gonna think and I would if I was a viewer so you know what I don't blame you it's fine uh I know but I know a lot of people would think I'm gonna be like I, I'm wearing it right now. I already told you I'm wearing LTT underwear and I'm wearing a, you know, company branded shirt right now, but it's really good stuff. Okay. Okay. So yeah, more stuff would be good. Martin said extra money from overtime. Let's go. And he got all the bananas an insulated water bottle a cpu pillow a stealth hoodie three mystery shirts and a beanie dang he wasn't kidding let's go nice okay pierce any

thoughts on elden ring uh it's not out yet right it looks really cool looks genuinely really cool i've been i've been really heads down trying to make the most of the whole Linux challenge thing. So I'm kind of like re-emerging right now. But some of the stuff I've seen around Elden Ring looks awesome. Jason, thank you for being so in touch with your community slash audience base. Love your content because you are always upfront and honest with us. Heck yeah. Paul says, happy birthday, Samantha.

Anonymous says, finally, I am home on Friday evening. I'm not. Benji says, hey, Linus. I fix phones at school. I'm really into right to repair. Heck, yeah. I was wondering what your view on the future of devices and repairability. He wants more of them. So do I. so do i d-pack says loving the mouse pad and water bottle nice pedro i appreciate your linux challenge helps bring exposure to it yeah hopefully i think it's gonna end up being positive i think there's already been positive things that have come from it i know certain members of the community have been very frustrated with it

and very angry about certain things but there has also been members of the community have been very frustrated with it and very angry about certain things. But there has also been members of the community that have been very positive about it. And I think overall already, even with part one, which I think is a little divisive due to the, you know, the whole, uh, the whole, I'm getting a team's message. Maybe they're kicking me off. Give me a second. That's fine. What was I going to say? Oh yeah. Due to the whole, you know, Linus is telling Steam thing. Considering that was still really positive, I think it's going to be great. think i think linux people are going to be stoked um they might not be stoked about how we describe certain things we might not describe it perfectly or or whatever but i i think our i feel like our impact here is going to be positive

overall people just figured out it's my birthday uh uh live you i'm looking forward i'm looking forward for a hoodie without the large text it would be more suitable to be used at work when clearly branded clothes can't be used um yeah like someone said earlier in the show the stealth hoodie can like kind of get away with that but not not necessarily 100 keith I need to measure all the things. Got all the bananas and some lanyards and a water bottle. Very nice. Damon says, love you guys. Got a party shirt.

Someone else said, love the new shirt. Got a party shirt. Very nice. Alex says, any thoughts of doing a stealth desk pad? The quality of the pad sounds amazing. And I love the northern lights pattern but my desk is already cluttered also thanks for helping me get through a year of depression of course um i don't know maybe tweet nick at lm at nick lmg on twitter

or bug them in other ways leave comments or something um eric hi i've been watching since the langley house days i really like what you guys are doing my first merch i bought was the linus tech linked t-shirt which was really cool yeah uh i still got questions like is that tape okay i remember specifically what shirt you're talking about now yeah that uh that took me a minute was actually looking for a shirt love it oh and he got okay he got the party shirt and the neon hard drive shirt very cool eli says pineapple very nice bryce says stop making so much merch almost 50 of my closet is your merch don't actually stop it's great stuff thank you anonymous says hi

luke hey what's up thanks for the wanshaos have a good night thank you joseph says got the cpu t and wanted a second nice yeah they're actually really nice and the last but not least anonymous says ah that's literally the whole message and that's it play the outro intro outro button i AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhieieieieie I have pretty bad eyes and I was supposed to do it with this with this like oh you guys can see me hi I didn't think it was gonna come back I can't see the mouse okay there it is hold on hold on hold on we're gonna get it we're gonna get it i'm hovering over the stop streaming and