The WAN Show - YouTube Will Demonetize This Video - WAN Show January 13, 2023

Starting point is 00:00:00 You know what's great about ambition? You can't see it. Some things look ambitious, but looks can be deceiving. For example, a runner could be training for a marathon, or they could be late for the bus. You never know. Ambition is on the inside. So that goal to beat your personal best?

Starting point is 00:00:21 Keep chasing it. Drive your ambition. Mitsubishi Motors. Oh, hey, sup? It's Wanshow. Gonna get some bitches, get some pussy. Sup, Silent Luke? In all seriousness, though, we've got a lot of great topics for you guys,

Starting point is 00:00:55 and it's gonna be a bit of an unusual show. YouTube's updated swearing and violence policies have caused mass demonetization of gaming YouTubers' videos. and violence policies have caused mass demonetization of gaming YouTubers' videos. Wizards of the Coast has backpedaled on OGL changes after community backlash. Pezo

Starting point is 00:01:13 moves ahead without them. Ooh, there's been some interesting developments around the 7900 XTX and the problems it's been facing, courtesy of our friend Roman Derbauer, and Luke had oral surgery, so he can't really talk. Hence the get-ups. Let's go ahead and roll that intro.

Starting point is 00:01:38 Oh, no, I'm the one who does that. All right, so Why don't we jump right into our main topic for the day? Prominent gaming creators have stoked community backlash against YouTube over recent changes to its ad friendly content guidelines, which has caused many of said creators videos to be age restricted and or demonetized hence the title of the video and uh i mean i guess live benchmark of youtube's content filtering because i went out of my way to attempt to break their new filters or rather break the rules uh within the first eight seconds of the video uh the live stream went in went live almost instantly on youtube which I'm not used to. Normally there's about a 5 to 15 second delay.

Starting point is 00:02:48 I might have missed the window, but I took my best shot at it. Now, starting in October of 2020, the guidelines stated that frequent use of strong profanity could result in limited or no ads. But in April 2021, the guidelines changed to allow creators to use moderate profanity like shit and bitch

Starting point is 00:03:09 within the first 30 seconds of a video. In November 2022, YouTube issued a major update, though, to these guidelines. Not only could profanity be used within the first seven seconds,

Starting point is 00:03:21 oh, not only could profanity used within the first seven seconds lead to limited ads, but all profanity used within the first seven seconds lead to limited ads but all profanity was now treated equally except for hell and damn which apparently are no longer being treated as profanity anymore what the hell like damn damn's not even a swear word anymore we're all going to hell.

Starting point is 00:03:48 Profanity used after the first eight seconds, though, was apparently fine as long as it was not excessive. The update also specifies that standard gameplay where gory injuries are present within the first eight seconds would lead to limited ads. On December 25th, Daniel Condren of RT Game asked YouTube for help after one of his videos was set to limited ads. And in addition to denying his appeal, YouTube subsequently flagged over a dozen more of his past videos. Condren believes that they were flagged because he escalated the issue. Hmm. Oh, you know what?

Starting point is 00:04:28 It looks like Riley and I are kind of of the same mind here. Riley says, yeah, it does look like that. But as all-powerful as the algorithm is, it is actually not scanning every YouTube video all the time. So when attention is brought to offending content, it, humans or more likely bots, probably checks related content. ProZD has apparently tested the policy already, waiting 18 seconds before swearing, and the video still got demonetized. Hey, Dan, can we just throw up our sponsors down here to just thank them for being part of making sure

Starting point is 00:05:02 that we can run this demonetization experiment? Do you want to just throw them up on the bottom for me? Just one after the other. Hey, look at that. We got Notion today. We got FreshBooks. We got Squarespace. Those are some damn good sponsors.

Starting point is 00:05:17 Hell yeah. This morning, YouTube gave a statement to The Verge. And we've actually got the statement up here, which I have not had the pleasure of reading yet because I was busy getting dressed up for the show. In recent weeks, we've heard from many creators regarding this update. YouTube spokesperson Michael Asselman? Oh.

Starting point is 00:05:40 So he's an Asselman. I thought maybe more of a boob-man, but... An ass-man. Okay, good. Told The Verge. That feedback is important to us, and we are in the process of making some adjustments to this policy to address their concerns. We will follow up shortly with our creator community

Starting point is 00:05:57 as soon as we have more to share. Well, that's not really a statement, is it? No, it's not. not he agrees thank you for that um we've got a few discussion questions here first of all what responsibility does youtube have to inform creators of changes to its guidelines both current or outcome upcoming i think honestly speaking that's the biggest problem here from my point of view. It's not that the rules exist, right? Like, it's been pretty common sense for us for a long time that you got to understand,

Starting point is 00:06:34 ad-safe guidelines don't come from YouTube. They come from advertiser tolerance towards a particular thing. So we all have our own internal you know moral and taboo compasses right like for some people uh full frontal nudity is like whatever like my understanding as a north american where that's like is that in europe you can like have a billboard on the side of the fucking road, okay? Okay, look, we're benchmarking the thing, okay? You can have a billboard on the road with, like, full frontal nudity on it,

Starting point is 00:07:13 and it's like, yeah, what? You know, like Holland or whatever. Over here, I mean, you show a little bit of crack, and that's, like, not the kind you smoke, like the kind out the back of your butt or the front of your chest, right? Like you're, whoa, so edgy, right? I mean, that was more true 20 years ago, but even, even today compared to, compared to other regions of the world, it's, it's different, right? So everyone has kind of like their own, their own ideas, whether it's nudity or violence or profanity for what can be considered tolerable.

Starting point is 00:07:46 By the way, for those of you watching who do not like a profanity-riddled WAN show, we'll be back to normal next week. Feel free to let your kids tune in. We will not have the video marked. We are trying to get demonetized. That's how you'll be able to know the difference. Riley apparently is adding notes in real time here. Note, excessive profanity can...

Starting point is 00:08:12 Okay, he's not a good typing board keyboard guy. Excessive profanity can lead to demonetization, so don't overdo it, I think is what he's trying to say. Anyway, my issue is not that YouTube has rules. Rules exist for a reason, to demonetization so don't overdo it i think is what he's is what he's trying to say anyway my issue is not that youtube has rules rules exist for a reason and it's because brands simply don't like their brand next to content that they feel could reflect poorly on them whether that is whether that's rational like whether that has any any any data backing to it or not sometimes people make emotional purchases be it a gorgeous tech themed water bottle or be it a marketing campaign okay and if they see something that they don't

Starting point is 00:08:55 like they could experience buyer's remorse and not work with that platform again so i get it the issue from my point of view and i think Luke agrees, is that this is just happening. It's just happening in the night, and people aren't being informed, and clearly it wasn't common sense to some of the people who use a lot of profanity and expect advertisements to show up on their videos just fine. And only was it you know not common sense or whatever but the community has ultimately figured out where the line was people were figuring out how to stay within it and then the line moved that is not okay i mean yeah i think this is luke's cursor now because it typed a lot faster

Starting point is 00:09:43 um you know luke says it's kind of luke figures you know it's like when elon randomly started Yeah, I think this is Luke's cursor now because it typed a lot faster. You know, Luke says it's kind of... Luke figures, you know, it's like when Elon randomly started banning everyone that was doxing people on Twitter when what really happened was he changed the definition of doxing. So if YouTube is banning people, or not banning, but demonetizing people for using too much profanity, when even just the words too much or excessive are fucking meaningless, right? How are people supposed to deal with that? And you gotta understand, right? YouTube is not some rinky-dink little platform that, you know, people upload to for fun anymore. This is people's livelihoods that are at stake, unless they have really great sponsors,

Starting point is 00:10:26 like, can you get those sponsors across the bottom for me again? Just want to shout out our sponsors, who hopefully, hey, thanks, Notion, are comfortable being next to this kind of, thanks, FreshBooks, unsavory language, right? Squarespace, Squarespace 2, shout out Squarespace. If they haven't ditched me yet,

Starting point is 00:10:48 they're not going to ditch me now. Now, our second discussion question here is what responsibility do creators have to be aware of potential changes like this and play it? Safe cough, cough, LMG. And that's true. I mean, you know, Luke has not been in favor

Starting point is 00:11:07 at times of our family friendly approach to I mean, really a lot of things. Like, we get edgy sometimes. I think that the How to Hide Your Pornography video was among the edgiest things that we've ever done.

Starting point is 00:11:24 But we mostly get edgy in kind of a silly toilet humor innuendo kind of way. We don't go straight for really, really vulgar language or really graphic language or imagery. And a big part of that has been out of staying advertiser friendly it was a business decision it was not because i have any particular aversion to using cuss words um as for what responsibility creators have like that's tough right because creators are supposed to be diverse right that's one of the benefits of the platform. And there's a certain, I don't think that for our type of content and for our message, there's any particular need to swear.

Starting point is 00:12:15 And personally, I consider a bleeped f**k to be funnier than a not bleeped fuck i think that i just i find it to be comedically um superior okay so that's a huge part of the reason that we do things the way that we do but also because we want to remain advertiser friendly however i think that there are creators whose personalities or whose message could be aided by speaking in a way that is true to themselves. And that might involve some cussing. And so for me to say or for me to pass some kind of judgment, right, on the responsibility that creators have to be aware of potential changes and play it safe. I think it's one of those things where my opinion's irrelevant. And so is his.

Starting point is 00:13:11 Right? Like, we're coming at this from a space, from a personality that doesn't need to communicate in that way. Whereas, some people do. And I just, I want YouTube to be a place where all kinds of creation can thrive. That is, as long as you're not spreading disinformation, spreading hate, you know, engaging in illegal activities.

Starting point is 00:13:32 If you're recruiting for ISIS or some shit, then as far as I'm concerned, you can get the fuck off the platform, right? But, man, a couple F-bombs, I don't know know it's tough i think that i think that if advertisers haven't already gotten used to the fact that youtube is like kind of a zoo there's a little bit of everything you know sometimes uh it's the kind of zoo where you know they had more than two of that kind of animal you know what i'm saying? You know, they got a lot going on. It's a cluster, okay? That's what I'm trying to say. Our next discussion question that Luke and I will be discussing is, what would need to happen to

Starting point is 00:14:19 enable a YouTube-level platform that doesn't rely on potentially prudish advertisers for revenue. Haha, wait, that's Floatplane. Except it isn't, right? Because we know, we know it's not a sustainable model, right? Like once you've got a certain amount of momentum, like LMG, which I shouldn't call it that, Linus Media Group has over 30,000 paying subscribers on Floatplane that are anywhere between, we have like og grandfathered in members at a three dollar three us dollar a month tier uh that is no longer available hasn't been

Starting point is 00:14:51 for years in fact i think the percentage of three dollar tier users is really dwindling these days um we have a five dollar tier and then we have a ten dollar tier that gets you 4k which is higher bit rate than youtube's 4k and most most importantly, not necessarily image quality, but our audio is uncompressed, which is one of the big reasons that someone like Dankpods is on Floatplane for his garbage time streams. It's super cool because he drums, right? And YouTube's audio compression, Twitch for that matter makes it so that like it doesn't have the dynamism that floatplane streaming can get him right and so it's great for people like us who have that kind of critical mass that i mean you guys do the math right 30 000 people paying

Starting point is 00:15:41 anywhere from realistically five to ten dollars a month is not an insignificant amount of revenue. It justifies a development team. It justifies us investing in a group of people that makes exclusive content just for that platform, right? Or for someone like Dankpods, right? Where he's got a specific use case for it and a dedicated audience that is really into that kind of content that will pay for it monthly. But I've had a lot of people point out, like, hey Linus, I couldn't help noticing I have to pay for every creator. That adds up too fast, I can't afford it.

Starting point is 00:16:16 I get it, 100%. You are right. A platform like Vessel, where you can pay one time and get all you can get access to every creator on the platform, that's way better. But you aren't YouTube, right? So let's say you have 100,000 users

Starting point is 00:16:37 or something like that, okay? Even a pretty good number of users. You got 100,000 users, okay? They're paying $5 a month. That's $500,000 a month. That's a ton of money for an all you can eat platform. Okay. Wait a second. Hold on. How many creators do I have on here? If I've even got 50 creators, right? All of a sudden now we're talking 500,000. Uh, oh boy. Uh, five by five. Okay, that's 20 grand a month.

Starting point is 00:17:05 That's a ton of money. Man, yeah, how can we get 100,000 subscribers on Floatplane? Man, okay, anyway. The point is, you would have more than 50 creators. If we built a platform that was like an all-you-can-eat, that was like a smorgasbord model, what would happen is the share for those individual creators if we had 50 that were the size of ltt for example the share of that revenue for each of those creators that's

Starting point is 00:17:32 left by the time you deal with payment processing fees which are significant uh man we haven't talked about the exact numbers in a long time so you're gonna have to just kind of let me know uh if i recall correctly it was 15 flat per transaction plus a percentage give or take is it 25 flat i don't know the point is it is a significant amount of money when you're looking at a five dollar transaction the lower the transaction the bigger the proportion it is because you have to deal with that flat fee no matter what so essentially you're just enriching credit card companies which the world definitely needs more of obviously um so as soon as you start to divide it between more and more and more and more and more creators they lose their incentive to actually even bother to upload on the platform

Starting point is 00:18:18 because you know what i'm gonna get my like 60 i'm mkbhd right what i'm gonna get my like 60 I'm MKBHD right what I'm gonna get my $60 check in the mail or even my $600 check in the mail you know I don't want to you know obviously I don't know exactly what his numbers are but I work in the same vertical I have some idea I can tell you that a $600 check to Marquez is pretty much a rounding error right and with his costs you guys got to understand i'm not saying that because he's like so out of touch and just has so much money i'm just saying that he's running a business over there he's got a dozen plus employees nice space good equipment he's trying to do a great job of what he's doing okay it costs money to do that and that amount of money ain't gonna make a huge difference so oh okay hey aj is uh posted in the floatplane chat i was apparently way off it is actually 30 cents per transaction plus a percentage so on those

Starting point is 00:19:16 three dollar transactions in the early days we were giving up 10 right off the bat to a flat transaction fee now i haven't been looking at the chat lately, but I'm sure some people are asking about Nebula. Nebula has a very, very different model where essentially they have a partnership with CuriosityStream that makes it so that you are basically getting Nebula for free if you sign up for CuriosityStream, who sponsors a lot of Nebula creators, effectively paying creators to promote getting their Nebula subscription for free. So it's like, is anybody actually paying for Nebula?

Starting point is 00:20:00 Probably. But are more people likely paying for curiosity stream and getting nebula for free probably um so it's a really interesting model over there and then the creators on nebula are stakeholders in nebula and my understanding is that that is dependent on like the size of the creator and overall contribution to the momentum of the platform. And so what that means is that even if your check from Nebula is $4 a month or whatever, because whatever, depends how many people are watching, I guess, they don't have any external viewership stats or anything like that, which usually means that it's not heavily used.

Starting point is 00:20:38 So it doesn't matter, though, if you get a $60 check, because essentially you're getting paid to promote it by one of the the associated media companies and then you are maybe uh in the event of of of an exit in the event that nebula gets sold you are getting some some cut of that of that sales check so it's a very very different model it's maybe someday something will happen and also there's this very convenient synergy here with curiosity stream that i'm sure makes sense for curiosity stream on some level um very very different dynamic from what flow plane is which is the money from the subscribers you can drive today right now and is sustainable uh we don't need we don't need any external backing nothing

Starting point is 00:21:28 like that we are we are we are profitable now it's it's amazing how many people i still see talking about the epic failure that was floatplane guys the numbers are right on the site they're right on the site. Floatplane is doing through LTT alone at least, what is it? Calculator, okay? So five times 30,000, okay? Here we go. Five times 30,000 times 12. Floatplane is doing at least $1.8 million US a year in revenue.

Starting point is 00:22:07 And that's just on LTT. We don't have a ton of creators on the platform. I admit, the model doesn't make a ton of sense for everyone. But what it is, is it is sustainable. And Luke and I, I think, have been proven maybe not right, but not wrong multiple times since Floatplane's inception. I mean, look at all the controversy there was around Patreon and Vimeo, when Patreon was effectively having people just put up unlisted videos on YouTube for the longest time. And then

Starting point is 00:22:38 there was the integration with Vimeo, where Patreon creators were able to use Vimeo to host their videos and then all of a sudden uh Vimeo kind of went uh hmm bandwidth and storage are expensive if you guys don't start paying for pro tier Vimeo hosting uh all your videos are going to go away see you later and then now I think Patreon is self-hosting video but I haven't actually looked at the quality of the service since then so I can't really speak to if it's any good or anything like that. Yeah, Level One Text has another 800 followers. I know Garbage Time streams have hundreds. I know that Forgotten Weapons has hundreds, if not... Oh.

Starting point is 00:23:31 Forgotten Weapons does not disclose how many subscribers are on Floatplane. Forgotten Weapons, good guy and good channel. Doing good. Why didn't I just say that? The good news is I actually didn't know if that number was accurate. So you can assume it was wrong neat uh let's move on to our next topic wizards of the coast has backpedaled on ogl changes after community backlash sort of um we've got a big update for you guys but first for those of you who didn't tune into

Starting point is 00:24:03 the show last week let's give you a little bit let's get you up to speed a little bit wizards of the coast uh owned by hasbro runs dungeons and dragons um basically had a license agreement in place with whether it was third-party content creators or whether it was community-run companies, or even actually companies with significant revenues based on their Dungeons & Dragons IP. They had a license in place that pretty much allowed you to create derivative works without paying any kind of royalties and without worrying about any sort of legal action.

Starting point is 00:24:41 The license was perpetual, and it is a huge part of why the D&D community has grown so vibrantly over the last couple of decades. I mean, we're talking everything from third-party add-ons to, I mean, you know what? A perfect example of someone that could be affected by this is that local creator, Filthy Lot, where they're doing those D&D live

Starting point is 00:25:05 reenactments where they play the game and they do these super high production value reenactments of their tabletop games. I could see someone like that even if they ultimately aren't affected and they don't need to pay 25% of their revenues

Starting point is 00:25:21 to Wizards of the Coast, I could see them being worried about the legal ramifications of the new general license. And that's one of the things that changed. All of a sudden, almost overnight, with almost no warning, any companies that were profiting off of Dungeons & Dragons were going to have their license agreement changed. So this included a 25% revenue garnish.

Starting point is 00:25:49 I think you had to submit basically anything to do with Dungeons & Dragons to them for, if not approval, at least for them to look at and be aware of. There were a handful of other particularly awful things, and it was basically going to happen in a couple of weeks. Now, the thing leaked, and the community got understandably outraged

Starting point is 00:26:08 because this is Wizards of the Coast basically coming in and going, hmm, you know what? The D&D community, the players, are woefully under-monetized. And that's not even me just trying to sound like an evil executive the ceo of wizards of the coast actually said that which is terrible described the player base as

Starting point is 00:26:35 under-monetized and it's like even if you're right okay even if your NBA ass knows what you're talking about. Come on, man! Come on! You can't... That's like... It's like... Oh, man, how do I...

Starting point is 00:27:01 How do I... It's just disrespectful. It's like if I it's like if i referred to you guys as as walking wallets instead of our community right even if i saw you that way even if i fucking did right you're walking wall at pieces of shit even if i felt that way you don't say the quiet part out loud. It's not tactful. It's disrespectful.

Starting point is 00:27:35 So anyway, let's get you guys up to speed. D&D Beyond staff, oh, oh, okay, have released a statement about the recent OGL changes. They have three goals in mind. Oh, they have three goals in mind oh they had three goals in mind okay to prevent the use of dnd content from being included in hateful and discriminatory products okay to address those attempting to use dnd in web3 slash blockchain slash nft material oh i'm already calling bullshit on this because the document okay so the original the original license agreement was like how many pages i don't remember but the new one's like 900 pages and has extensive documentation about like web 3.0 blockchain nft crap and as far

Starting point is 00:28:21 as i can tell this is not about preventing others from doing it. This is about making sure that they can do it and others can't. Anywho, hold on. And reason number three, to ensure that OGL is for the content creator slash home brewer slash aspiring designers, et cetera, as opposed, I guess, to anyone who's looking to commercially profit off of it.

Starting point is 00:28:42 But that's the thing. You gotta understand, when you create an open ecosystem where people can profit, you create a financial incentive for creativity. That's the whole point. That's what you benefited from. And so now you're basically going, this is going great. Let's get more benefit.

Starting point is 00:29:09 Alright. There were apparently two principles driving these goals, be good stewards of the game, and that the OGL exists for the benefit of the fans. Nothing, this is a quote, nothing about these principles has wavered for a second.

Starting point is 00:29:23 All of the royalty language was apparently meant to apply to large corporations attempting to use OGL content and wasn't meant to impact the vast majority of the community. Man, that's the problem when the lawyers get involved. Even if that's true. Even if that was the intent. The problem is that the OGL seems to give them a lot of flexibility to crack down on pretty much anything that they didn't agree with. The next OGL will contain provisions,

Starting point is 00:29:51 this is going back to this, to protect and cultivate an inclusive environment. Education, charity, live streams, cosplay, etc. will remain unaffected. Okay, but, man, there's some really fine lines here, right? Like, okay, what is cosplay? If I dress up as some D&D IP character or class of character, I mean, can you copyright a fucking elf at this point, right?

Starting point is 00:30:24 I don't think so so okay so i so i uh so i i'm cosplaying some dnd something and it's it's clearly let's say it's clearly infringing right um what if i cosplay and i'm in a video what if that video is monetized? What if I didn't profit, but the maker of the video profited? What if I'm not in a video? What if I'm just at a con? I'm at PAX, or I'm at Comic-Con, or I'm at something. I'm at some kind of gaming convention.

Starting point is 00:30:59 What if, what if, you know, I mean, imagine me, okay? I want to be like, I want to be a sexy elf, okay? You know, I've got a bikini as part of my cosplay, right? Exactly, right? So someone slips a one to my G-string. Okay, have I profited now? Is this commercial?

Starting point is 00:31:18 Commercial. There's clearly some fine lines here is what i'm trying to say now they also say content released under 1.0a will remain unaffected no royalty structure included no license back provision under the new ogl you will own the content you create okay they've also said that the ogl update will not release today but it is coming what we saw was a draft sent out to content creators nobody drafts a document like well okay yes you do draft a document like that but a draft of a document like that is unlikely to be so far off the mark if it was all about cultivating and inclusivity as opposed to where's my money where's my money bitch

Starting point is 00:32:14 um all right there was a very cheeky and salty line that was uh applied to this announcement that is being made fun of online second you're going to hear people say that they won and we lost because making your voices heard forced us to change our plans those people will only be half right they won and so did we the fuck is wrong with you who talks like that who sends a letter like that to their customers

Starting point is 00:32:57 that's like that's like them releasing a fucking t-shirt that's like them releasing a fucking t-shirt. That's like... Trust me, bro. The new OGL will be epic. Okay, but seriously. Seriously, though. In the case of the warranty drama,

Starting point is 00:33:31 our track record and our intent was clear. We have always had a basic policy for customer care. Make it right. We got a little slow. Okay, we have quadrupled the size of our customer care team. We are actually, I was told that by today we would be down to 24 hours and uh we haven't actually told anyone yet but some of the temps i believe will actually be retained because we're going to be building new systems whenever there's downtime when it comes to actually responding to tickets uh one of the things

Starting point is 00:34:01 we're going to start doing is combing through reviews on the site for feedback we're going to be compiling that for the product development team so essentially like customer customer you know ticket answer department is going to turn into more of like a customer experience department and is going to be designed to continue to make everything better, from response times to future products to even midstream reviews, midstream reviews, midstream improvements on existing products. You can expect to see all of that from us in the future. Oh, apparently it's called customer satisfaction.

Starting point is 00:34:37 Is that what the department's called? Okay, whatever. Whatever. Whatever we end up calling it, it's not just about answering tickets um and the t-shirt was a miscalculation i'm not gonna lie i still think it's funny but i live in my head where i knew my intent all along and the thing that i missed in all of that the thing i totally missed in all of that, the thing I totally missed in all of it, was that a lot of you don't,

Starting point is 00:35:06 right? You don't. You don't know what my intention was. And I've told you guys, you know, don't, don't, don't trust, or at very most, trust but verify, right? And so, for me, it was very obvious. I'm looking at it going, well, I've got this super long track record of taking care of our community. got this super long track record of taking care of our community also even if i didn't i would be insane i'd be insane to screw anyone over if we actually did right like if we actually did look at how much it blew up when we didn't actually screw anyone over if we actually just started denying warranty claims on products on our store, it would explode. It would explode the entire techosphere. I'm not a sucker for that kind of punishment.

Starting point is 00:35:55 So from my point of view, it was A, I've got this track record, and B, isn't this obvious? But from your point of view, maybe you were a first-time viewer of that show. Maybe you're a first-time viewer of that show. Maybe you're a first time viewer of this show. It's usually not like this. Maybe you were a first time viewer of that show, right? Maybe you'd never ordered from the store before. Maybe you actually had no context whatsoever for what our policies were. And maybe all you saw was a quite wealthy influencer.

Starting point is 00:36:26 That's a reference to last week's show as well. Basically, you know, saying, you know, F you, you want a warranty? Well, you know, go fuck yourself, basically, right? And that was never my intention, but I think we've made good on it. And I think that in the same way, even though they issued this spectacularly stupid statement, they still have an opportunity to not screw this up. They still can! They haven't actually released the new OGL.

Starting point is 00:37:00 Until they do, they can still reverse course. until they do they can still reverse course well yeah okay so luke's luke's got some thoughts um they have already permanently alienated large parts of the community this is true and all in the name of what inclusivity good fucking job um and they have also if the idea here was to not allow potential competitors to benefit from their content man this was the biggest shot in the arm that they could have possibly given to their competitors uh just this morning paizo began solidifying their own OGL. It will apparently be system agnostic, perpetual and irrevocable, an open RPG creative license, ORC.

Starting point is 00:37:53 They are looking for a non-profit organization with a history of open source values to own the license. This would be similar to the Linux Foundation and are essentially coming in and saying, even if these guys reverse course, what they've shown is that you're a walking wallet and you can't trust them. I mean, yes, technically, the original OGL, technically, the original OGL,

Starting point is 00:38:20 while it was perpetual, was not irrevocable. They're not probably outside of what is legal, but they are outside of what is, in my opinion, morally acceptable. When I see a perpetual license, that doesn't mean to me, hey, this is going really great, I'm creating all of this content in this amazing ecosystem that is going to be mine as part of this ecosystem forever.

Starting point is 00:38:51 And I can monetize and I can use to hire great creatives to make more content. This is going to be amazing. And we're going to do this forever. And oh, by the way, one day you can say, actually, no,

Starting point is 00:39:03 and then all of that will change. And now you're gleaning 25% of my revenue. No. When I hear perpetual, what I understand is not perpetual, but like then, and then like less perpetual later. I think, you know,

Starting point is 00:39:19 from a non-lawyer standpoint, I think that means perpetual. Right? Like, we've got a document called the Perpetual WAN Show Document. Okay? That doesn't mean that this WAN Show Document is perpetual until we decide to make an ephemeral WAN Show Document. Okay? It's perpetual.

Starting point is 00:39:42 This is the only WAN Show Document. We used to have a separate document every week but we now have a perpetual WAN show document because that way we don't have to make sure it's shared to all the stupid accounts on all the different computers and everything every week uh yeah team viewer jam funk 99119

Starting point is 00:39:58 in floatplane chat yeah exactly when I buy a perpetual license to your fucking software that means it's mine forever not it's mine forever not it's perpetually mine until you decide it isn't mine anymore no no no forget it alright so our discussion questions here

Starting point is 00:40:13 who should take charge of ORC I mean honestly I don't have enough experience in it to say how truthful oh this is great some of our other discussion questions are really great though Luke if you think it was truthful that Wizards of the coast's intent was to stop bigotry and nfts say nothing or wait no don't say it say something crap i set that whole thing up bitch uh

Starting point is 00:40:45 okay uh and not capitalizing or as in orcs versus humans not orc i have no idea what you're talking now anyway i'm talking about now um luke says i think you can even say things like your fan slash user base is woefully

Starting point is 00:41:02 under monetized but yes yes this is what i was trying to explain the situation to yvonne over uh dinner last night where she was like um sorry like what's what's going on like she never never played dungeons and dragons like i mean she she has kind of a knack for legal documents and like license agreements and stuff these days because in the absence of a company lawyer she did she ran a lot of legal documents for us and had to learn to understand them for the most part because like even when we had a lawyer uh in many of the early days we couldn't just afford to have that lawyer like sit and look at everything so we would

Starting point is 00:41:42 look at it figure out what our questions are what sections they needed to look at and just utilize them as little as possible lawyers be expensive all right um so she hadn't even seen the document but i'm like kind of trying to explain what's going on and i'm like yeah they're basically what they're doing is they're taking this existing vibrant ecosystem and they're going how much can i squeeze it how much value can i extract instead of asking themselves how much value can i provide and i don't think anyone would have complained if they had come up with some amazing new offering for their customers and said hey but this costs money they well oh they might have complained, sure. But it wouldn't have been like this.

Starting point is 00:42:28 It didn't have to be like this. That would increase monetization. Yeah, so the example that Luke was thinking was, you know, how do you increase your monetization by offering something new? So instead of offering just T-shirts on LTT Store, we developed a backpack. We developed a screwdriver. The point

Starting point is 00:42:49 is not to just increase the price of t-shirts, which if you guys know, we have never actually done. Our t-shirts are still $19.99 US, which is $20. I know. They're still $20 US, just like they always have been, regardless of whether they're blank or printed.

Starting point is 00:43:06 By the way, I have a bit of an update for you guys. We are apparently working with three or four printing shops locally, trying to get some samples in. The thing that drives me most crazy about our previous printer is that the quality was great. We actually loved working with them. working with them oh i keep saying orc uh when referencing the open rgb creative license but it's apparently orc oh that makes sense hilarious i'm also not technically wrong it's all caps technically right the best kind of right actually the quote is technically correct

Starting point is 00:43:45 but let's get let's get pedantic today shall we um why don't we why don't we get to a couple of merch messages actually if you guys want to send a message into the show the way to do it today is through a new feature that we developed to add additional value. We saw a feature that was broken and sucked, merch messages, which don't show up in our dashboard properly. And we went, hey, that's stupid. Look at this. Here's two merch, sorry, did I say merch messages? Here's two super chats, okay?

Starting point is 00:44:20 Here's two super chats. Oh, good. One of them is here. What happened to the other ones i don't fucking know nobody fucking knows it's gone so we saw something that was broken also by the way why are you just giving google money to build features that don't work properly that has been broken for two years unbelievable unacceptable merch messages man how long did it take? I'm pretty sure the first iteration of merch messages was ready in less than a week. It was amazing. And what's best

Starting point is 00:44:54 is that instead of giving Google a big cut of the money that you send to us, you actually get to give it to people like, well, it used to be our t-shirt printer, but anyway, you get to give it to people like Megapro and PH Molds and the companies that we work with on the screwdriver. You get to give it to our creator warehouse team who gets paid out of that money. You get to actually get something in the mail, right? You don't just give that money away. You give it to people who are actually making real things that you might actually want to have, like a really nice insulated water bottle. It's better. So merch messages were developed so that you guys can interact with the show in a way that is better for everyone. Does it cost money? Yeah. But we have received like zero pushback on merch messages. Some people complained we were doing too many of

Starting point is 00:45:41 them, but then for every person who complained we were doing too many of them, there was at least three people saying, merch messages are my favorite because it's basically Q&A time. So our response to that was, we do a couple of them early on in the show, so I can talk about how to spend a merch message. Freudian slip, love it. How to send a merch message,

Starting point is 00:45:59 you go on lttstore.com, you pick up something, doesn't matter if you're not, you know, if we don't have anything fresh and new that interests you, you can always just pick up a gift card. Okay, you can spend it later. So you go on lttstore.com, you pick up something, doesn't matter if you're not, you know, if we don't have anything fresh and new that interests you, you can always just pick up a gift card, okay, you can spend it later, so you go to LTTstore.com, in the checkout, you'll see a place to leave a merch message, it goes to our producer, Dan, what's up, producer Dan, he will either respond to you, he'll just show your message, if you're just like, hey, mom, or whatever, happy birthday to a friend, or whatever, you can just have it show up down there, or he'll curate them so that uh luke and i can check them out later and uh if we don't get to it well hey at least you get your order in the mail heck yeah anywho let's do a couple of them now and then we'll right so i was going to say our compromise was we do a couple of them early in the show we talk about how to send them and then we address the rest of them sort of more towards the end

Starting point is 00:46:43 of the show when it devolves into absolute chaos. Dan, hit me with a couple merch messages. Let's go. Okay, I've got one here from Vincent Salinas. Out of Nvidia, Intel, and AMD, who's overall the biggest liar? And out of those, which lie was the most personally offensive?

Starting point is 00:47:01 Why did you ask this on the Spicy Wan Show? Corporations is a liar sometimes right um wow you specifically called out intel amd and nvidia now here's the thing companies are made up of departments which are made up of well okay no hold on companies are made up of, well, okay, no, hold on. Companies are made up of business units, which are made up of departments, which are made up of teams, which are made up of people.

Starting point is 00:47:31 So, if I was to zero in on an egregious lie, I mean, I could pick any one of them. Man, I just about pulled an all-nighter, okay, when AMD's bulldozer processors came out because our AMD rep at the time told me they were frickin' awesome. Sorry, excuse me. Fuckin' awesome. He was like, man, these CPUs slap bitches harder than Dana White.

Starting point is 00:48:03 Oh, God. These CPUs slap bitches harder than Dana White. Sorry, I'm trying to get into character, okay? You're gonna kill the pair of us. Anyway, he tells me... Get it together, Luke. Anyway, he tells me that the CPU is amazing. At the time, right, I am ghostwriting for Hardware Canucks, which was owned by NCIX. And I'm working on our launch day coverage. I'm trying to overclock it or whatever and I'm sitting here I'm benchmarking late into

Starting point is 00:48:50 the night going this thing's a piece of shit but I was told it's great but it's the middle of the night right the night before the embargo because I only got it like that day and I'm sitting here going everyone else is gonna make me look like an idiot I can't publish these numbers. This thing is dog slow. And then it comes out and it's like, it sucks. And I'm sitting here going, well, that would have been great to know. But, I mean, okay, I was about to say, that's not AMD's fault.

Starting point is 00:49:22 AMD does have a culture of overhyping crap products that that suck um it's usually closer to you know white lies i guess or i don't know if they're white lies it's usually closer to bending the truth i get is it amd lies okay intel lies lots um AMD lies. Okay. Intel lies. Lots. NVIDIA is just a bunch of insidious fucks. Like, let's face it. They have a culture of being insidious fucks. And don't kid yourself. Just because Intel dresses nicer and is more respectful to you doesn't mean these are businesses, right? They exist to separate you from your money.

Starting point is 00:50:06 However, there are people there i want to i want to go back to the other side of this coin whether it's nvidia or whether it's intel or whether it's amd i have met some of the most genuine passionate enthusiastic people that i've ever encountered in the industry. Because all of these companies, insidious fucks that they are, are profitable, which allows them to spend lots of money to attract super passionate, super intelligent people to work on their products. So what I'm trying to say is that corporations is a liar sometimes, absolutely. But corporations is actually also full of enthusiastic amazing highly intelligent honest people right like i remember running into one of the people that advocated for us

Starting point is 00:50:54 for skull trail at intel and he was just like yeah that was like my passion project i was like you're awesome that was so cool! It was basically Intel's server platform in gamers' clothing and overclockable at the time. It was awesome. Bleeding edge. Made no commercial sense, but they did it. It's the same thing for companies like NVIDIA. Man, does NVIDIA ever have great engineers.

Starting point is 00:51:20 These are people that are just so smart that you sit down and talk to them for 15 minutes. like holy shit i could i could have gone to school for a year and i wouldn't have learned half as much as i did just now right and so when i say these companies are just like full of liars and and and deceivers it's true but these companies are also full of honest, amazing, passionate people who would do it for zero dollars. So what? They're making money. That's great. They should. But they would have done it anyway, which is amazing. You've got to love that passion, right?

Starting point is 00:51:56 You know what? Let's have a spicy WAN show. It's not one of those companies, but the closest that I would say that I've been to being lied to outright by a company I would say this is fair to say because it was directly from the CEO and it was a direct deception something that they would have had intimate knowledge of this was around a key product launch it wasn't from you know a low-level sales rep or marketing rep or even a high-level sales rep or marketing rep.

Starting point is 00:52:30 This was directly from the CEO. And I was told from Razer that their gaming switches, back when they first released Razer switches, were not rebadged Kaiwa Cherry knockoff switches. I was told that they were Razer switches inside and out, engineered by Razer. And that was at best, at best, a misrepresentation.

Starting point is 00:53:00 At the very best. Because they were Kaiwa Cherry clones. at the very best. Because they were Kiowa cherry clones. Moving the actuation point 0.2 of a millimeter is not engineering a switch.

Starting point is 00:53:18 Okay? The Romer G is engineering a fucking switch. And you can say what you want about the Romer G switch. Okay? can say what you want about the Romer G switch, okay? But that switch was engineered by Omron with input from Logitech. The Razer gaming switch

Starting point is 00:53:34 was not engineered by Razer. It involved engineering. You'd be amazed how hard it is to build a screwdriver. And if it's hard to build a screwdriver, I promise you, it's hard to build a keyboard switch. It's a complex mechanism. It's small.

Starting point is 00:53:51 The cost needs to be low. It must be low. It can't be a dollar a switch. Like, you can't, I mean, you can sell $300 keyboards, but most people will not buy a $300 keyboard. There's a limit, okay? And it's got to be reliable within that limit. The millions of times you have to be able to press it. I get it.

Starting point is 00:54:09 There was engineering involved, but you did not engineer a Switch. A Razer gaming Switch, at least back then, right? Okay, so this is like seven, eight years ago, right? At least back then, it was a Cherry clone. That's it. I love that. is yeah this is great d boss 2289 float plane says linus is gonna wants to be spicy today and luke doesn't have any power

Starting point is 00:54:31 to stop him this time yeah yeah he could okay he could pull the mic let me get the get the fuck out of here um so there i think that's the i think that's the closest i've ever been to just like or i think that's the most egregiously i have ever been misled by a company um and to be clear i'm not counting i'm not counting anything that was unintentional you know uh like even if you if you go back and look at like the principled technology scandal at Intel, I had a theory back during that time that no one would ever go on the record and talk to me about. But I'll say that my theory is basically there were ignorant executives and their egos involved. There was skilled people who didn't have the time or chance to review things involved. who didn't have the time or chance to review things involved.

Starting point is 00:55:29 Basically, bottom line, don't attribute to malice what you can attribute to incompetence or whatever the quote was. I suspect that that was a clown show comedy of errors, not a willful attempt to deceive the enthusiast community who are the only people watching those stupid presentations anyway and who were obviously going to catch that. You know, that's... That I don't classify the same way. I just don't.

Starting point is 00:55:56 Whereas when you tell me, yeah, we built this thing from scratch, and you, like, actually didn't, that's different. Hit me with another one. Okay, yeah, sorry about the delay there. I've got one here from, well, we'll do this one from, oh, geez, I don't know. How about from Reed? No, I want to save LTX for later.ody uh love the products guys i was wondering if you have any ipv ipv4 address space and use bgp for anything and if you guys would ever consider making a video about how all that works keep up the good work love you guys uh that's a that's a no i mean yeah we we definitely have a small block of ipv4 addresses but like we're not we're not like hoarding them or anything we you know yeah i we just we we just have them they're useful

Starting point is 00:56:54 oh we have a fair number oh okay cool we should sell them all right cool sure luke wants to hold on to them one more yeah sure give me one more um going here from eric jay and bob i've been feeling a ton of burnout at work lately and i'm considering changing career paths my question is do you have any advice regarding when to go to the higher ups and complain about issues and when to know they aren't listening and you just must move on? Oh man, that's a good question. Well, one thing that I will say as an employer is I really, man, and this is gonna, this kind of ties back into a conversation we were having recently about how I really respect people who want to better themselves, who want feedback. And I find the legal framework around employment here

Starting point is 00:57:45 in BC very frustrating, because it prevents me without opening myself up to liability, from providing feedback to people who are being let go, you know, hey, here's how you could probably make it go better next time, I just can't do it. And so, you know, as much as it's like, And so, you know, as much as it's like sucks that it's like a double standard, I guess, is what I would say as an employer is please talk to me. Right. Give me a chance. that I want is for you to just quietly sit there and fester on your unhappiness and be miserable and resentful when like, honestly, maybe it's something that we could have just fixed. And maybe it might maybe it wouldn't happen overnight. Like, for example, we didn't have an employee retirement savings plan until very recently. That's something that we added. I think we've got a pretty kick-ass plan now.

Starting point is 00:58:48 It's very competitive. But we didn't have one before. Why? Well, because there's a lot of administrative overhead. It's a significant cost. And I mean, well, yeah, that's why. Basically, as we've grown and as we've become more profitable and as we've added more people

Starting point is 00:59:08 and as we're looking for ways to continue to grow and become a better place to work, my whole thing has been since day one. I've always done the voice, so I'll do the voice again. I want to be a real company. How do we keep improving? What if you were upset and resentful and the thing that you were so upset about

Starting point is 00:59:29 was something that like, we were two months from announcing and you up and quit and that would have been it and you would have been happy. Or what if it's something that, you know, I had been sitting there going like, oh man, I really want to do this, but like,

Starting point is 00:59:46 I don't even know how much appetite there is for it. But all of a sudden, if I just start talking about it, then people might get the wrong idea. Maybe only, you know, maybe 90% of people would just rather we invest that into hiring more people so that they're not working as hard. Like these are conversations that, especially in the early days we had a lot like i'd sit down with you know luke and brandon and taryn and ogs like that and i'd say hey look coming into this year um i could pay you more however you'd have to keep working at this pace or i could hire more people i'm kind of leaning towards door number two here. What do you guys think? And, you know, I think I got it right for the most part.

Starting point is 01:00:33 And, you know, obviously that doesn't mean that we were just freezing pay at any stage and all of that. Like we were constantly trying to do better as far as that went as well. It's a balancing act, right? But we were also trying to, so were also trying to make the place a better place to work while also adding more people, building more infrastructure.

Starting point is 01:00:52 The point is that I want to know. I need to know. Because if I don't know what people want, I'm just guessing. What's up? Oh. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Starting point is 01:01:10 You know, I think Luke has some strong feelings about this. If you really need and want to fix, don't just bring the problem. Find a reasonable solution and suggest it. Maybe even make them think it was their idea by bringing them to that conclusion. I'm sure he's done it to me. Yeah, I mean, it's communication 101. Whether you're in the supervisory

Starting point is 01:01:41 or the reporting to, how do I describe these roles? Whether you're higher on the pyramid chart, the company, what is it called? Pyramid? Pyramid? Is that what it's called? What's the company? Org chart. Whether you're higher on the org chart or lower on the org chart, it is such an important communication skill to bring people ideas in a way that is non-confrontational. If I can bring you an idea and make you feel like you can relate with my struggle and that my solution sounds super reasonable to you, then the chances of implementing it are much, much higher. With all of that said, the second part of your question is, hey, when do I go, this is a lost cause,

Starting point is 01:02:28 and just bail? There's a solid chance that that's going to be it. One of our rock stars, Kyle from Creator Warehouse Engineering, love Kyle, he's great. You know, a big problem for him at a previous position.

Starting point is 01:02:45 I'm not going to say it was the one right before this. I'm not going to say if it was two before this. We're not going to name any names here. But at a previous position, he had expressed some concern about, um, basically some costs that were associated with his remaining employed there, him remaining employed there. Okay? The situation was going to become untenable for him. He wasn't even asking for a raise.

Starting point is 01:03:13 He wasn't just like, give me more money. He just had, there were some costs that were associated with him working there that he needed some solution to. And in effect effect they basically said deal with it and he did and he came here right well eventually so that could happen some people just they don't care about you um they they see you as i i, I, I hate the word. I hate the term HR. Um, they see you as human resources, effectively warm bodies that can be mined for productivity. Um, and, and that's just the way, that's just the way it's going to be.

Starting point is 01:03:57 And you just have to, you know, karma is a bitch, right? Like you just have to hope that at some point that's going to bite them in the ass. No one's going to want to work for them. And honestly, I think we're seeing a lot of that today. Labor shortage. There's no fucking labor shortage. How many resumes you get? A thousand resumes or whatever for some positions. Yeah, a lot. No labor shortage. You got a pay and benefit shortage. That's your problem. Figure it out. And like the thing that drives me most crazy is like McDonald's food doesn't fucking cost more in places where they pay a living wage. It's still cheap.

Starting point is 01:04:30 Why? Because it is. You're just taking more of it. So just pay more of it. Anywho. All right. Let's move on to we should get some sponsors. We should get some sponsors all the way get some sponsors out of the way.

Starting point is 01:04:45 We've got to pay for all this somehow. The show is brought to you by our wonderful sponsors, during whose reads here I am not going to use any profanity because that's just not in my nature. Starting with... Help me out, Dan. Thanks to Mint Mobile for sponsoring today's show. It's 2023, which means it's

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Starting point is 01:05:44 That's mintmobile.com slash WAN show. That's mintmobile.com slash WAN show. Cut your phone bill to just 15 bucks a month at mintmobile.com slash WAN show. Next topic. Man, I'm kind of feeling the Windows 8.1 end of support. What do you think? Yeah, let's do it. Windows 8.1 reached end of support on Tuesday, January 10th.

Starting point is 01:06:04 This sucks. I actually still have an active Windows 8.1 reached end of support on tuesday january 10th this sucks i actually still have an active windows 8.1 right now it's not like normal windows 8.1 it's windows 9 uh that that sort of stripped down 8.1 embedded or whatever it was called um that we made a video about i man i looked at that thing i was like, it's fucking snappy. It was amazing. And so I immediately set it up on a VM that to this day I still use. Um, so I'm going to have,

Starting point is 01:06:33 man, I'm going to have to like update that thing. That sucks. Cause like, that's my sketchy VM that I've just used for like, Oh, this is like a weird program. Okay.

Starting point is 01:06:43 Let's, um, I've just used for like, oh, this is like a weird program. Okay, let's disconnect it from the rest of the network and see what it does. And because it's so bare bones, it's really easy to tell if anything is there that's not supposed to be there. Like, ah, man, I just, I love that VM. It's been through a lot with me.

Starting point is 01:07:01 Anyway, technical support, software updates, and security fixes will no longer be provided. You're not going to say anything. And Microsoft is recommending that customers move to a more current version of Windows. They are not offering a free upgrade path from Windows 8.1 to Windows 10 or 11. And unlike what happened with Windows 7,

Starting point is 01:07:20 Microsoft will not be offering an extended security update program for Windows 8.1, probably because nobody would even want it. The ESU program for a number of older products actually also came to an end on Tuesday, including Windows 7 Professional and Enterprise versions and Windows Server 2008 R2. Fun fact, I was actually using Windows Vista earlier this week. And Windows 8.1 is not going to be as bad as that but i can tell you using an outdated version of windows it gets pretty rough after a while so it was good up until i think it was about two years ago we got our hands on the dell xps m 2010 i think it's called it's a wild

Starting point is 01:08:01 laptop i can't imagine they made more than like hundreds of these if even that like i can't even imagine who would buy this thing but we got our hands on it and that thing shipped with windows vista and apparently it was pretty good up until just a couple of years ago when um support for uh when chromium stopped supporting Vista. So effectively, you couldn't do anything in a browser. I think Valve pulled support for Vista and Steam around that time as well. Don't quote me on that. I could have the timing a little bit off.

Starting point is 01:08:34 But man, you try to do anything on Vista today, and it's bad. Even ignoring the security issues, let me tell you. I tried to load up i tried to load up rotten tomatoes.com okay so that i could check reviews for for a blu-ray to determine if i was willing to risk losing it in the uh in the pop-up uh motorized optical drive on the top of this laptop guys do not miss that video um i was like do i care about this blu-ray and then i could manually calculate the percentage of thumbs up and thumbs down reviews because i could i could see how many there were but the actual images weren't weren't loading

Starting point is 01:09:17 it was pretty rough um our discussion question here is where would you rank windows 8 slash 8.1 on a best to worst list of windows versions this is one of those things that's kind of like 98 98 se and me where the lines are a little blurry you can't ask me where would you rank windows 8 slash 8.1 because windows 8 and 8.1 let's just say microsoft learned a lot from windows 8 and when windows 8.1 was far less of a piece of shit um i would rank windows 8 oh man see i liked vista so let's go man you know what that'd be kind of a fun video like ranking ranking windows and like just like windows tier list um yeah oh that could be a fun floatplane exclusive doing like uh hey hey dan uh can you uh can you ping the social team and actually cc james and let them fight it out over whether that's an ltt video or whether it's a floatplane exclusive just

Starting point is 01:10:23 like kind of casual social video but we should do we should do like a Windows tier list I just a Windows tier list I wasn't listening at all yeah Windows tier list so we take all the editions of Windows and we have people we have people rank them best to worst even good pre-NT Windows like dos based windows 98 se was not very good it crashed a lot it had a lot of compatibility issues in spite of the fact that it was running on top of dos dos programs just would not work a lot of the time i think it's hard to call windows 8 legitimately worse than anything before the nt kernel but i would say that windows 8 was probably the worst of the post nt kernel operating systems for me like 11 has its issues but they're not stability issues uh they're not just like utterly making it utterly unusable issues with the keyboard and mouse right um you know and and windows 8 as i talked about before

Starting point is 01:11:27 with the the windows 9 experience could get wildly better um like i would i mean i've told you guys eight point if if i if i could have had the latest versions of directx supported there is no reason why I couldn't have just continued running 8.1 embedded with modifications, kept running Windows 9 until today. There is no reason for me to not do that. It is so usable. Start menu search works fine.

Starting point is 01:11:57 It's much easier to get at your network configuration panel. Oh, you don't have that bullshit, terrible control panel that's just like sits on top of the regular control panel and makes everything more difficult actually i think you did have a little bit of that but it wasn't as bad the whole regular control panel was still there damn it yeah no i i liked 8.1 with the right tweaks but then i liked vista so what the the fuck do i know fucking idiot

Starting point is 01:12:25 i was running vista on modern hardware i didn't try to plug in my old 98 se era printer that's a big difference right windows vista worked great on a brand new computer playing current gen games. Because it was what everyone was validating with. Uh, yeah, okay. Luke, on the other hand, worked at Geek Squad in the Windows Vista days, and it was a bloodbath of low-spec laptops. Yeah, I think that's very fair to say. If you had the specs for it, it ran great. If you were,

Starting point is 01:13:05 but if you were running like 32-bit Vista on some piece of crap laptop, it was a pretty bad time. Pretty bad time. All right. Why don't we do, let's do two more merch messages and then we'll move into another topic.

Starting point is 01:13:30 Hit me, Dan. Okay, I gotta find them okay i thought that's your whole job over there is finding merch messages yeah but i mean he also monitors the audio i gotta scroll down to it he helps you guys listen to the echo go go go go stop it um all right let's see. I think we got that one done, too. You got this. Do you need to do a quick topic while you look through it? No, I got Matthias. Loving the super edgy episode, laughing throughout the whole show. Question for Linus.

Starting point is 01:14:00 Do you take any actions to protect the long-term health of your voice with all the hosting of episodes and live shows? Excited for LTX and ltd store.com uh no no i can't say that i do but one of the things that i do do nice uh one of the things i do is i just use my natural talking voice i'm not i'm not putting on a voice for you guys i i'm louder and that's something I've tried to work on. But every time, yeah, every time I'm quieter, okay, why don't I try? I will simply speak. I say I can't do it. I immediately start ramping up. Part of it is that when I'm on camera, I'm usually talking about something that I can get kind of fired up about.

Starting point is 01:14:47 Otherwise, why are we making a video about it? Like I was, oh man, I was in script review with, oh crap. What's that? Oh yeah,

Starting point is 01:14:57 right. I was in script review with Tanner today and it's anyone outside of my office probably thought I was laying into him. Because I was sitting there, I was sitting there going, how the fuck is this even still a problem in 2023? How is this even fucking possible? Right, you know. But I was actually, you know, Tanner's more of a subdued kind of guy.

Starting point is 01:15:24 He wouldn't say it like that, but it's not like he didn't agree. What I was talking about was the challenge of sharing files from one device to another. You know, Apple's kind of got it solved, but it doesn't count as solving it when you only solve it for people that are made of money and can afford an entire ecosystem of your products. That's, fuck you, right? Like, that's not a solution. That's not a real solution. What I want is a real solution. If I need to beam you a file from my phone to your laptop,

Starting point is 01:15:53 that shit should be simple. It is 20 fucking three. Right? So anyway, the point is that even when I'm not on camera, I can get kind of passionate about things, but that's just my voice. And so when I'm on camera, that happens a lot. And I mean, drink water? You know?

Starting point is 01:16:19 LTTstore.com, bitches. I should have waited until he drank. Almost got him earlier with the slap. Do you want another one? Yeah, give me one more. Okay, this is from Daniel, not me. Getting some birthday

Starting point is 01:16:42 merch. Linus, what is a product that you will probably never be able to make but would like to make oh man i mean there's there's a lot of things i'd love to be able to make um oh oh yeah yeah socks i mean we'll get it we're gonna we're gonna nail the socks don't you worry sandals may never happen just the mold costs for all the different sizes that you gotta do I'd love to do a better sandal like man the

Starting point is 01:17:13 see I'm gonna get all passionate again the failure point on every pair of sandals I've ever owned is the same so why don't you just reinforce it you fucks that's your whole job is to make sandals so what you don't know how they come apart like how is that even possible no one oh man oh man okay oh man okay i was trying i'm trying to navigate to like a local rec center on my way home.

Starting point is 01:17:45 And I'm using my voice because I'm a responsible person. I'm operating a motor vehicle. So I press my button on my steering wheel, hold my button on my steering wheel. I go, okay, navigate to whatever the name of it is. Now, I happen to have an entry in my address book that is some other place of business that starts with that same region okay so i'm not going to say exactly what it is i don't need to disclose any of this but you know let's say say for example i was trying to go to uh aldergrove recreation center and i times in a row it utterly ignored recreation center

Starting point is 01:18:30 and navigated me to the dental clinic three times three times in a row with all the ai shit that Google does, in 2023, how is it fucking possible that when I say, call Yvonne Ho, it says, I'm sorry, I don't have a number for Yvonne Home. Ho!

Starting point is 01:18:59 Ho! Ho! How is it possible that when I say call Hoffman Wong, it says, I'm sorry, I don't have an entry for Hoffman. Sometimes it's spelled with two fucking N's. You know how I fixed it? I took the second N off the end of his name. How is that even possible? If I say, call Jake Tivey, okay?

Starting point is 01:19:31 You check. How many fucking Jakes are in my address book? Jake Tivey? Close enough. If I say, call Jake Tivey, it works. Okay, it's the same with James, right? Call James Strieb. Calling James Strieb.

Starting point is 01:19:46 No. No. No, no, no. I said it this way. You repeat after me. How is it even possible? Okay? Because I know they have it.

Starting point is 01:19:54 I know they have the technology to take whatever the phonetic version of that would be, cache it, and then return a probability match. Probability match. Okay? Not a perfect match. Fine. Give me the 85% one that's in my local storage. Sorry.

Starting point is 01:20:20 What were we talking about? I don't remember what the question was what kind of product do you want to make yeah i don't know how about a how about a voice assistant that isn't complete dog shit how about one of those could use one of those all right uh let's do another topic ooh Intel releases the first 6 gigahertz CPU good for them um this is funny

Starting point is 01:20:52 Mercedes is going to be offering level 3 self driving in America no no I'm kidding I'm kidding I'm kidding poor poor Anthony put together this topic for us but damn it we're going to read it uh after CEO Pat Gelsinger teased it during the innovation 2022 keynote Intel on thursday formally released the i9-13900ks it is binned apparently through a unique selection process so binning uh it has the same core and cache layout but with higher base and boost clocks it is apparently a world's first six gigahertz cpu this is versus 5.8 for the non-s version of it

Starting point is 01:21:27 uh it's e-course boost the same though so it's only the p-course that will boost higher which is fine because from a gaming standpoint that's all you really need uh hardware unboxed got their hands on the new chip and released a review at launch unsurprisingly they're fast yep they're fast they are at the top of the graph. There's a slight problem, though. Aside from the whopping 280 watts of power that it drew at its 5.5 gigahertz all-core frequency, wow, okay,

Starting point is 01:21:58 it's really expensive. It's $100 more than the CPU it's based on. That's 17 percent more for about three percent better performance and this does not factor in amd whose 400 7700x isn't that far off in gaming to get the best gains out of the 1300ks it goes without saying that you will need to also spend a bunch of money uh like you'll need fast ddr5 7200 memory that gained an additional three percent fps though that might apply to the 13900k as well so the question becomes if i really need three percent more performance are there other ways to do it maybe and then do i need another

Starting point is 01:22:37 three percent let's fucking go let's get to chaos! Yeah, I mean, Luke's got a good point. You know, he thought it would actually be more than $100 more. Very few of these things will probably exist. And going back to, you know, like, third-party bidding services, like Silicon Lottery back when they existed, these highly-binned chips would often cost a lot more. So, from that point of view, you're probably right. It's

Starting point is 01:23:08 downright reasonable, because you have to understand what you're buying. You are buying essentially hand-picked silicon. Maybe not by an actual hand, but certainly a robot hand. Certain things that you'd really prefer a human hand to do.

Starting point is 01:23:23 But I think robot hand is good enough for this. You know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying, Silent Luke? Again, I should have waited for him to drink. I want to get that computer wet. And computers love me. I turn them on. I'm sorry.

Starting point is 01:23:41 I really shouldn't be making him laugh. For those of you who are wondering what the fuck is going on with the WAN show we are doing a little Jay and Silent Bob cosplay because Luke had some fairly significant oral surgery earlier this week he

Starting point is 01:23:56 cannot really speak comfortably but we've got a bit of a streak going we gotta figure out exactly which was the first show that we did. Not the first show we did, but we've got to figure out how far back we have to go before it was not me and Luke on the WAN show. I'm pretty sure we're over two years at this point where neither of us has missed a WAN show, regardless of work trips, family vacations, statutory holidays, surgery. And in the interest of keeping the streak alive, Luke actually scheduled his procedure as far away as possible from WAN show

Starting point is 01:24:40 and had intended to be on the show today talking but has had some complications today that prevented him from fully participating so i don't remember whose idea it was but we came up with the idea of okay well if you're gonna was this okay sometimes i'm stupid fucking ideas um so we came up with the idea of cosplaying as Jay and silent Bob. So there would be a reason for him to be silent. And then this topic with, uh, YouTube demonetizing channels for swearing excessively kind of was perfect because I needed an excuse to talk about fucking pussy and right.

Starting point is 01:25:18 Like if I'm, if I'm good, if I'm going to be the character, what I'm going to, I'm going to like bleep things. Can't do that shit. Anyway. Intel has dreamed of speeds of 6 gigahertz for 20 years,

Starting point is 01:25:33 with their last serious attempt being the Pentium 4 at Netburst Architecture derived Tejas. Tejas? I forget how to pronounce Tejas. But the Pentium 5. These chips were intended to push past 5 gigahertz to an ultimate goal of 10 gigahertz plus, but they just couldn't do it, and Tejas was canned by 2004 in favor of the lower-clocked Pentium M-based core CPUs. Gigahertz doesn't matter came true.

Starting point is 01:26:00 As we reach the limits of simply adding more cores and with both teams pushing clocks again instead, might gigahertz matter once more? The answer is they always will. They always have and they always will. All else being equal, more gigahertz is more faster. But the thing is that a lot of efficiencies were gained by building a more power-efficient efficient architecture especially as we moved into the multi-core era such that gigahertz was not the only answer to the problem so i think there's always

Starting point is 01:26:36 going to be a little bit of of ebb and flow are we chasing gigahertz or are we chasing architectural efficiencies uh realistically for a long time it's just kind of been a little bit of both. Discussion question is what direction do you see the industry going in following this milestone? More clock speed, more cash, more cores, more power or something else? I don't think we can really push power much higher, at least not for monolithic dies. We saw with AMD's release of the non-X7000 series CPUs that at even pretty high power draw, a chiplet design spreading out that power dissipation helps a lot with thermal management. Like, yeah, it's still a ton of heat.

Starting point is 01:27:16 You still need a big fat heat sink, but you're not going to have these hotspots that are absolutely going to kill any attempt to cool these things. Like that's the thing, right? Is you could have a 100 watt chip, right? That any attempt to cool these things like that's the thing right is you could have a 100 watt chip right that is impossible to cool because the die is so small that the physics of moving the heat away from it fast enough are impossible right or you could have a 400 watt chip in a server that's this fucking big has chiplets all over the damn thing, and yeah you need a big heatsink on that bitch, but like but it's not a problem

Starting point is 01:27:52 to get the heat out of the chip into that heatsink so, I don't see us pushing power much higher for desktop chips, where realistically wafers are going up in price, not down and we're not going to see significantly larger dyes, so we've

Starting point is 01:28:08 just reached a point where we can't really move heat I mean, Intel's already thinning out, not just the IHS, they've been thinning the dye for multiple generations now to try to get heat out of it more efficiently like, we're at the razor's edge of what's possible now

Starting point is 01:28:22 I do see them continuing to try to push clock speed as much as they can but it's hard to do without more power so man what do you what are you gonna see more cash is gonna be tough man i'm sounding like uh i'm sounding like like a bad news bearer here uh more cash is gonna be tough We've seen news coming out of TSMC that the latest node shrinks are not really making cache any smaller, which is pretty tough for AMD's strategy of throwing more cache at their chips to dramatically boost gaming performance. I think the X3Ds of this generation are going to be pretty freaking expensive. AMD is going to be able to point at their non-Xs and say, hey, we're still a great value. Right? AM5's a great

Starting point is 01:29:08 platform, great value, but you want to go fucking fast, you're going to have to pay some fucking money, you know what I'm saying? I mean, I think Luke's right. Chiplets are 100% the future. But, I mean, what? Do you really want more cores?

Starting point is 01:29:26 I mean, yeah, your team works in development. You're going to parallelize everything? Good fucking luck. Ultimately, single core. Yeah, single core performance is always going to matter. Yeah, it's always going to matter and it's still it's still a bottleneck today like no matter no matter what you're doing it still matters um all right let's move on to our uh oh this is oh this is a big topic

Starting point is 01:29:58 praise saint cook hero of the people uh tim cook voluntarily takes a 40 pay cut on thursday apple announced that ceo tim cook would be taking a 40 pay cut going from 84 million dollars last year to just 49 million dollars this year okay i don't really know if i like your attitude this is some pretty sad shit right here how's tim cook's family going to have generational wealth now this decision was made after the company's board committee i mean it doesn't sound like an excited committee i guess they get to talk about how much more money tim cook makes than them the decision was made after the company's board committee on executive compensation balanced shareholder feedback,

Starting point is 01:30:49 Apple's exceptional performance, and a recommendation from Mr. Cook. Okay, for real, though. To adjust his compensation in light of feedback received. Tim's annual basic salary will remain $3 million, with a bonus of up to $6 million. salary will remain three million dollars with a bonus of up to six million dollars what's changing is his stock award target which will be cut to 40 million as opposed to the 75 million that he received last year last year apple apparently wanted to pay cook a 99 million pay package but shareholder advisory firm iss said it was too much this is very interesting like once you get into these numbers that are just so far beyond

Starting point is 01:31:27 like any reasonable amount of money, uh, like, okay, tell me something, Luke. Okay. What, what, what, what, what does this work out to even now? $49 million a year. So that works out to a seventh of a million dollars a day. So about, about $130 million a day. All right? $1,000, sorry, excuse me. $130,000 a day. Yeah, can we become a shareholder firm that says too much? Yeah. Advisory firm? Okay.

Starting point is 01:31:55 So $130,000 a day. Luke, could you spend, what does that work out to per waking hour? So you're awake for what? Let's say 16 hours, okay? So you make about $8,000 a waking hour. Oh, man, that was pretty close. Nice. Okay, you make $8,000 an hour.

Starting point is 01:32:21 Could you spend $80 in a minute? Could you spend $80 every minute? Like what kind of food, what kind of fucking food would you eat? Like how long, at the rate that you eat, my God, you could never,

Starting point is 01:32:40 he could eat forever on that amount of money. He could, I mean, this fucking guy could eat forever on like a thousandth of that, a one hundred thousandth of that god you eat so slow it's amazing you'd think he wouldn't be able to get as big as he is oh oh wow yeah you're gonna be pretty slow at eating now unless you're eating that pussy look i'm supposed to be j, right? That's what he would say. Gets right into it. I'm actually hurting him. I'm sorry.

Starting point is 01:33:22 hurting him i i'm sorry anywho i wanna i wanna i wanna make it clear we actually um did praise uh the late ceo of nintendo for taking a 50 pay cut after the lukewarm launch of the 3ds and the failure of the wii u um right like that it is actually a pretty cool thing for a ceo to take a pay cut when the company doesn't perform well because why should why should other people's jobs get cut like that stupid sad ceo talking about like crying about how hard it was to lay people off crocodile tears right like how how much are you going to cry when it's your family that's worried about where their next meal is going to come from um and to be clear i'm not saying that i'm some kind of like you know softy i would never you know fire anyone like that that happens that's business

Starting point is 01:34:16 but you know when you're doing it because the company overall didn't perform, well, shit rolls up a hill. The executive team has to take accountability for that, right? The difference is that Iwata's basic annual salary was $770,000 with up to $2.11 million of performance-based bonuses. 1.1 million of performance-based bonuses um it wasn't three million dollars with six million dollars of bonuses and another 75 million dollars of performance-based bonuses or a stock stock stock award target um uh jacob chgo says apparently internally at apple everyone spent the entire day mocking him i can't validate that. I have no idea. But it wouldn't surprise me.

Starting point is 01:35:13 Anyway. So yeah, good luck with that, Tim. Hopefully your private jet payments don't fall behind. All right, what else we got? This is an ultra rapid-fire topic. The LTT subreddit brought to my attention that Anchor was still using me as a spokesperson on their site. Hey, thanks, subreddit.

Starting point is 01:35:40 Post it on the forum next time. But subreddit's cool, too. Anyway, it's gone uh we've got that all dealt with so here's their site uh if you guys uh weren't keeping up with the drama we dropped anchor as a sponsor after their eufy sub-brand security cameras uh were marketed on big fat lies uh we were we were not super happy about the way that whole thing went down oh this is great, so Lou just gets more he just gets a wider spot I guess

Starting point is 01:36:09 alright cool good stuff alright we got a couple more topics here, Mercedes will be offering level 3 self driving in the US and they will be the first in front of Tesla they got approval from the state of., and they will be the first in front of Tesla. They got approval from the state of Nevada,

Starting point is 01:36:27 and they will be the first to offer a production vehicle with Level 3 driving. The jump from Level 2 systems, which include Tesla's Autopilot and Cadillac's Super Cruise systems, is a substantial leap and includes, apparently, environmental detection capabilities that allow the system to make informed decisions, such accelerating to pass a slow moving vehicle level three systems to be very clear still require a human driver to remain ready to take over control at the system's request so you can't just you know have have someone sucking your dick while you're behind the wheel

Starting point is 01:37:00 i mean i guess you could as long as you're ready to take over control at the system's request just don't let it just make sure it's not a make sure it's not a good blow job not too distracting yeah uh so that's good and uh anyway audi's 2019 a8 sedan was supposed to be the first production vehicle with level three features in europe but ultimately they decided the market and infrastructure wasn't ready back in 2020. Um, this is, this is pretty exciting. I still, man, I, my new car has some like assist features, like even like lane keep assist, man, I drive without it on. I just, I like to drive my car. I feel like I thought I was going to be all automation

Starting point is 01:37:43 all the time when it came. I don't know. I don't know if i'm not into it maybe like sometimes like if i gotta if i'm work if i have to work or something just like sit in the back seat and work while the car drives itself that'd be kind of cool but i i like to drive i also have a pretty nice car i'm i'm actually really liking the new car. I never really cared. I've never been a car guy, but I definitely am liking the new car. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:38:23 Still, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Luke likes it too. What is it not good enough for blow jobs is that wait where did you say that before i oh my car's automated driving well yeah no it's not even close let me tell you i tried to give a blow job in that car it's like awful. The bolster's on the seat. I can't even reach the passenger seat.

Starting point is 01:38:53 All right. Why don't we go ahead and do some merch messages here? Don't say that. Okay, merch messages. Oh, don't. Okay, that's fine. In that case, no, we got some jobs. We got some jobs.

Starting point is 01:39:04 Let's go. Let's do jobs. Oh, wow. We have different pages for different companies now., don't. Okay, that's fine. In that case, no, we got some jobs. We got some jobs. Let's go. Let's do jobs. Oh, wow. We have different pages for different companies now. Look at this. Okay. So there's jobs, jobs, jobs, float plane jobs. Junior backend developer.

Starting point is 01:39:15 Luke, you got to correct this if any of this is wrong. Is this all right? Full-time backend web developer. Full-time front-end developer. Full-time machine learning slash computer vision engineer. Okay, why work here? Equal opportunity statement, job perks. Hey, hey, we don't have our bloody thing, the good thing that we have, the GRSP plan. Okay, we got to get that shit in here. Hey, Dan, do you mind just sending a message over to HR? Yep. And whoever manages this website.

Starting point is 01:39:45 That should be really quick to put up there because of Squarespace. Okay. For Creator Warehouse, we need a full-time senior retention marketing specialist. Okay. Whatever the hell that is. Full-time electronics engineer slash product designer. A full-time fit technician. Got to make more garments.

Starting point is 01:40:04 All right. Cool. So we got that. And then, oh um there we go what's going on here uh oh are not in hiring right now but they will be this year and we'll be using the resume oh okay so bear that in mind uh we will be hiring those positions uh and honestly like if it's, I'm sure we would just make it work. But sometimes, you know, timing's not always perfect. So, okay. And then Linus Media Group

Starting point is 01:40:32 is looking for a full-time procurement manager, full-time sales supervisor, full-time logistics coordinator, full-time accountant, full-time bookkeeper, full-time video editor slash camera op, full-time social media coordinator, full-time bookkeeper, full-time video editor slash camera op, full-time social media coordinator, full-time writer slash video producer, full-time production assistant.

Starting point is 01:40:51 And yeah, we're, man, we're hiring a lot of positions. You want me to look at your thing, right? It's all right. Also, the jobs on the floatplane page are not only for floatplane, which is confusing. Yeah, I think they're just jobs that you're gonna have to hire for that kind of makes sense sort of not really but yes but no but yes uh anyway thanks luke good chat all right okay no we got one more topic let's do our last big topic and then we'll get into some good merch messages you guys probably noticed we didn't promote really anything on the store today um that is for us to have one more big push this weekend we actually do have a couple products that we could launch uh but i talked to nick about it adam our our new customer experience supervisor and we basically went okay look let's not do a big burst of sales this weekend um let's

Starting point is 01:41:47 save it let's get everything completely caught up our goal for this year is to measure our customer support response times in hours um not in days so we're gonna get everything completely cleaned up next week and then next week hopefully we'll have like a good promo for you guys or a big launch or something like that. All right. 7900 XTX problems. After its release in December, the AMD 7900 XTX has had some issues. There have been a number of users reporting that it was hitting hotspot temps above 110 degrees and slowing the GPU down. AMD started by saying this was normal. But soon after, they admitted that some reference cards suffered a manufacturing defect in the vapor

Starting point is 01:42:25 chamber. AMD was then interviewed by Gordon at PC World, and according to Derbauer, some questionable statements were made. In the interview Scott Herkelman from AMD said, Is there a performance issue? What we found is if you throttle at 110 degrees in certain workloads you can see a small performance delta.

Starting point is 01:42:44 Hmm. Oooooooookay. you can see a small performance delta. Hmm. Okay. This did not line up with Derbauer's testing that showed that three out of four cards he tested could only dissipate 250 to 280 watts of power consistently, 80 watts lower than it should be, which can drop performance by 10 to 20%. Whoops.

Starting point is 01:43:04 Gotta protect my voice. Whoops. the problem appears to be stemming from not enough liquid in the vapor chambers what's strange is that amd says they traced the problem to a bad batch of coolers and that customers can get in touch with customer support to figure things out but that doesn't really make sense because if it only affected a single batch it should be relatively simple to use serial numbers to figure out where those cards are and preemptively recall them. I mean, yeah. Yeah, like, why are they relying on customers to test a $1,000 GPU to figure out if it's defective? Like, what are they? Your RMA department?

Starting point is 01:43:40 This either means that the defect isn't confined to a single batch, or that AMD just doesn't really care, and as long as these GPUs don't die within the warranty period, they're just ultimately not going to be their problem. The larger problem is that AMD is super low on 7900XTX stock, so only about one out of three of customers affected will be able to get a replacement card in the first two weeks in Germany. three of customers affected will be able to get a replacement card in the first two weeks in germany derbauer recommends just taking a refund from amd and buying an aib 7900 xtx instead of waiting for amd to replace your reference card or if this is just kind of like um fucking stupid you could just not buy an amd card but then you're supporting NVIDIA who has their own problems. I know, right? There's been some speculation that GPUs have died as a result of this hotspot, so Derbauer received a broken card from a viewer to tear down, and you absolutely should watch the moment that he turns it on for the first time. Not safe for nerds. With the disassembly done, it looks like there was a faulty vrm so the hotspot temp had

Starting point is 01:44:45 nothing to do with the gpu dying uh with a better cooler it still would have let out the magic smoke though uh some bonus not safe for nerds content 6900 xts are also appearing to be dying in large numbers with on with one german shop receiving 48 dead gpus uh the picture of one of the GPUs is truly horrific. Hmm. Let's see. Yikes. Wow, did that die just crack? What makes a die crack? Oh, it came off on the cooler. Why would it come off on the cooler? What the hell?

Starting point is 01:45:18 Wow. Okay. Huh. With that said, 48 is not necessarily an enormous number it just depends on how many this particular uh this particular store sold yeah some people are speculating that a driver issue caused this although much like the faulty vrm gpu that der bauer showed um it is possible for a driver to kill a gpu like for real like a driver could potentially tell it to to draw way too much power um or it could it could disable a thermal safety you know yeah it's

Starting point is 01:45:54 possible but i i think that's fairly unlikely um our discussion question is if you were amd how would you try and solve the bad vapor chamber problems i mean i mean we had some problems with screwdrivers we contacted everyone who bought one. We had them keep their existing driver. We don't serialize the screwdrivers because realistically, there's no onboard programming. We wouldn't have a way of actually serializing them that couldn't be forged, right?

Starting point is 01:46:21 So what are we going to do? Have a different plastic mold for every stupid driver? What are we going to put a sticker on it? whatever we don't serialize them so what we had people do was just mark the ones that we knew were bad just scratch an x send a picture to us of the scratched one so that we'd know that no that one does not have any existing or does not have any remaining warranty and then we sent them a brand new one that has a brand new warranty um that's how we would do it amd has you know can serialize cards though so maybe they could you know have people return the card at least and then they wouldn't be out the entire cost of the card i don't know would they would they salvage memory chips probably not even they're probably just you know i would like to know the answer to that.

Starting point is 01:47:10 What does happen to a legit, like I'm not talking a customer return, because I know where that's going to end up. That ends up in the open box pile, right? What happens to a legit dead GPU? Memory chip goes bad. Is someone remanufacturing that? I don't know. I'd love to follow the journey of a legitimately dead GPU. Does it just go into an e-waste pile?

Starting point is 01:47:33 I don't know. Probably. But then some of them are extremely valuable. Like you've got GPUs where the memory chips on them alone are worth a couple hundred dollars, right? And the IT industry is notoriously stingy. I have no idea. Yeah, I mean, you could recycle it, but that still costs you $200, right? Unless someone's going to use those chips.

Starting point is 01:47:54 But then if you use those chips, you can't sell it as new. Unless you just do, I don't know. I mean, it's under a cooler. Who's going to know? All right. I don't think we have any LTx updates this week dan you want to get me some merch messages you ready i'm finally ready yes i've got one here from joe i've been i've been listening to this show in podcast form for six to eight years now just so you know at

Starting point is 01:48:18 least one of us does exist you're a confused man joe you're confused man six and eight years six and eight are two whole completely different numbers i also play competitive mario kart we what's your favorite mario kart game mario kart competitively god damn it dan mario kart it's a me mario still better than Chris Pratt. Mario Kart? Is that what I'm supposed to say? Like a British person, like I'm supposed to talk like? British? Mario.

Starting point is 01:48:54 It's far more R. Not Mario. Mario. I don't know. I can't do a British accent. My favorite, man. The one I probably played the most was for the DS. I don't even remember what

Starting point is 01:49:05 that one was called I think it was the one legit game I actually owned for that console everything else was on my r4 no no I also bought phantom hourglass got suckered into that one what a terrible game um yeah that's probably the one that I played the most and it's the only one that I ever played online um I don't know what the fuck that is i i know for you it's eight yeah i know i mean they didn't ask you they knew you weren't gonna answer it's not like you can even talk um the one i probably played second most was 64 so this is this just comes down to like what consoles i owned and when i was at a time in my life when I like had any time to do anything.

Starting point is 01:49:48 Yeah. I'd say that, uh, I'd, I'd say my, my favorite was probably Mario Kart DS. Was that what it was called? I don't even remember.

Starting point is 01:49:55 Yeah. All right. Hit me. Okay. If you can say Jif, I can say Mario. No, Jif is correct.

Starting point is 01:50:01 Mario is dumb and bad. Well, both, we both have stuff to work on. This one's from Reid. I got some stuff to work on. Work on this guy. Yeah. When should purchasers of tickets of the cancelled LTX look out for the email allowing them to rebuy the tickets they bought before the official sale of the tickets? Also, Luke, why don't castings seem to work on Floatplane, Android app, or

Starting point is 01:50:26 Chrome? I take your silence as you're working on it. If you message support, I'm sure they can help you out with that. Yeah, message Floatplane support, not LTT store support, not someone on the forum, don't post on the forum, message Floatplane support, and they can get you an answer for that. As for

Starting point is 01:50:42 the purchasers of tickets, I don't know. I don't know if we have LTX support. We should at some point. We should figure that out. Hey, Dan, can you send a message to Colton and Chase

Starting point is 01:51:00 to figure out what the hell our plan for support for LTX is. Yeah, I've gotten some questions about security and things like that. Okay. I think a lot of it is just still in the works. Okay, yeah, but we should have somewhere that people can start submitting questions so that we can populate an FAQ with, you know, FAQ.

Starting point is 01:51:20 Get it? FAQ? Yeah, anyway. The point is we can populate it with answers to those questions all right i'll get you another one if you want yeah okay um this is from cheese floor that's a very strange first name i'll be using this driver to build my home lab is there any interesting that you is there anything interesting uh that you're running on your home server besides Plex and Home Assistant that you haven't shared? P.S., has Creator Warehouse ever thought of designing

Starting point is 01:51:52 a vest? We, I think, I think we have a vest that we worked on at some point. I don't know if it's ever going to come to light. I'm not really a vest guy, to be perfectly honest with you. Like, I mean, we could do a fedora but we won't

Starting point is 01:52:09 probably unless we do I mean now I kind of want to do like a rockin fedora like a super awesome fedora like with the finest materials oh I'm gonna have a lot of velvet soon if you want to do a

Starting point is 01:52:24 velvet fedora now i want to do it um i don't know we have like a minecraft server like just like a survival server that we play family minecraft on once in a while trying to think like what else i got on there not not too much honestly i may use it as a naz obviously but that that's that's about it i'm not a super demanding user at home that's the thing about like working all the time is you don't play much like i have the coolest toys and i hardly touch them like uh yeah you know ivan right uh formerly like ivan who used to work here was um he was bugging me he was like hey we should go like to the sea of Sky Highway on the bikes. I'm like, dude, I have literally not once in my life gone for a recreational ride.

Starting point is 01:53:07 Like nothing personal. I just probably won't do that. But like if you want to grab lunch or whatever, that's a different question. Like I can probably make that work. But like I got this cool bike and I literally have only ever commuted on it. Like, okay. Okay, this one's from michael linus slash luke what's your take on using blockchain technologies to help resolve monetization issues for creators i think that it's unfortunate that blockchain blockchain technology has such a a negative vibe around

Starting point is 01:53:41 it right now because there are legitimately really interesting things that could be done with it the problem is just that it's completely unregulated and has become a space where grifters and scammers can exploit people and so that that harms the reputation that it has and i think harms its utility for legitimately useful purposes like i talked a little bit on a previous show about this company that had this goal of creating like a stock exchange essentially for creators to publicly list their companies using blockchain technology as the as the validation, the proof of ownership of shares. so instead of buying some fucking ape or picture or whatever like just some bullshit you would actually be buying a share legally in linus media group incorporated that you could then go up in value with like you know the way that shares go up in value if linus media group incorporated you know outperforms its quarterly estimates or whatever the fuck you know financial shit happens um and uh we would also make money from the initial offering of shares and then from any secondary

Starting point is 01:54:53 market movement of shares and like the whole thing just like kind of actually makes sense and blockchain would be a great way to do that but yeah this is a great point reverto in the float plane chat says kind of like torrent yeah like like torrent technology it's a super cool tech that is getting a really really bad rep um a relative of mine a member of my extended family let's put it that way is working for a company that is using blockchain technology to um to help with aerial mapping which is super cool so essentially what you do is you submit mapping units like you you record and submit map uh and you get these tokens and then when people need aerial maps of that place they they compensate your tokens right or they they have to buy tokens that make your tokens

Starting point is 01:55:49 go up in value or whatever basically there's like this this mapping economy so drone operators in their spare time can just fly around mapping shit and get compensated anytime anyone utilizes the mapping that's so cool right but as soon as you say blockchain people are like oh blockchain that right no crypto no the tokens make sense in this case jelly d um why not because in this case there is a clear reason for people to exchange real fiat currency for the tokens. Right? It's actually a good thing. Super cool.

Starting point is 01:56:33 All right. What else we got? Okay. Got another here from Jose. Hey, Linus and Luke, what are some challenges you've faced when redesigning the screwdriver to the short version or the backpack to the slimmer version? Oh,

Starting point is 01:56:47 hold on a second. Algorithm in the Twitch chat asks, why do you need a marketplace for maps when they can be shared freely on the internet at barely any cost? Because the drone operators time is not fucking free. Why should it be barely any cost? Why don't they get compensated besides we're not talking satellite imagery that is freely available on google maps we're talking like 3d

Starting point is 01:57:10 like topographical maps right like we're talking high resolution maps we're like moving into the future we're talking about you know you could invest in a drone that is capable of creating like super, super accurate maps. And anyone who needs the resolution, be it for, you know, I don't know, resource exploration or whatever it is, would have a very strong financial incentive to pay for it. This isn't just for like randoms to be like, oh, it'd be kind of cool to like see a map of like this like forest bit here. That's not's that's not what that's not what it's for uh and anything that has a commercial purpose right you should be paid for like we we have a very clear policy here if we are going to make money on something uh we insist

Starting point is 01:58:02 that we pay for your work period like that's just that's just the way it is there we insist that we pay for your work, period. Like, that's just the way it is. There are things that we don't make money on and we'll never make money on, and we're very, very grateful to people for their very, very generous contributions. I mean, someone like a Colonel Mortis, for example, would really stand out to me as someone who's just been an amazing member of our community over the years um and i you know what i think there's another exception uh we take volunteers at ltx i'll be honest with you guys though if you had everyone does it and the model

Starting point is 01:58:39 is not feasible it's just literally not feasible if you don't take volunteers to help you run a large scale event like that um we like we looked at the numbers it's wild um and they are still compensated so they get i think the way that it works yeah if you guys want to volunteer i think the signups are live on ltxexpo.com uh the way it works is i think you get two days of admission and you volunteer one of the days is is how it typically works and then there's also like some like some um like some swag pack type stuff and stuff like that and i got a message back from chase about ltx oh yeah um they're trying to set something up next week hopefully cool okay okay um this one's for Eric, from Eric, sorry.

Starting point is 01:59:27 Oh, is this the one you read before? No, I think this is a different person. Did you read one? Oh, I might have read this one before. Yeah, the LTTstore.com. Okay. The things that will be at LTTstore.com at LTX will mostly just be like what you would find on LTTstore.com. Yes, we plan to have screwdrivers and or backpacks there um glad you picked up a water bottle yeah we'll definitely have more stuff there it's not going to be like the ltcstore.com concept that i shared before where we're going to have like stuff that

Starting point is 01:59:56 was tested by the lab you know like discounted electronics or whatever i still want to do that but that would definitely not be at ltx okay this one's for michael how many t-shirts do i need to buy to get linus munis to say snoochie booches what i think that's from one of the later silent bob and yeah oh okay yeah see i i have not watched every i talked about this in the pre-stream i have haven't watched every Jay and Silent Bob adjacent piece of content. Sure. Snoochie Booches, I guess.

Starting point is 02:00:33 I don't know what it means. It cost one t-shirt. Is it really bad? I have no idea. Okay, I'm not going to worry about it. You don't have to address it next week. This is from Charles. I'm going to blow one of my from Charles. I'm going to blow

Starting point is 02:00:45 one of my few times that I'm going to talk. Is it going to be an intellectual monologue? Unfortunately, this time, not really. It's Snoochie Boochies. The person typoed. No. Snoochie Boochies. No. And that's it. My jaw hurts.

Starting point is 02:01:02 Cool. I appreciate your sacrifice, Luke. This one's from Charles. Linus, recently newlywed in my early 30s. Wife only into mobile legends for gaming as of now. Was Yvonne into gaming when you first were together? And any tips slash games to introduce my wife? She wasn't really.

Starting point is 02:01:21 Like, she played casual games. One that she apparently played a lot was called Dangerous Dave. Yeah, I'm glad she doesn't play like she played casual games uh one that she apparently played a lot was called dangerous dave um yeah i'm glad she doesn't play dangerous dave anymore know what i mean dave he's dangerous a lot of stds and shit um i would say the best way to get her into gaming, Yvonne really enjoys playing co-op games, games like Trine, Overcooked, if you don't like your marriage. She played a lot of Left 4 Dead and Team Fortress 2

Starting point is 02:01:57 with us back in the day. You'll definitely have to... You'll want to find things that are pretty forgiving for newcomers. And I would strongly recommend, if you can, involve her in the squad. Instead of having a four-man group, grab two squad members and carry her. Make it fun. Be supportive. Just make it fun. that's the most important thing i think that's what a lot of people miss is it doesn't matter what game you play uh it matters

Starting point is 02:02:32 that you make it fun and make it a an experience that she'll look back on and be like yeah i want to try that again okay got one here from tim uh This one's a little more interesting. L&L et al. Love the show and channel. Curious to hear your opinions on private companies being treated as infrastructure, e.g. Google, YouTube, Facebook, and should they be government regulated? Also, what would happen if one of them just shut down overnight? Cheers.

Starting point is 02:03:02 Yeah, we're in a dangerous place. I mean, that's... This is a problem that's been developing for a long time. I mean, I remember, man, back in the day, I forget who it was, but I watched a really cool video about the way that U.S. telcos essentially took government money, took public money, to build out a ton of

Starting point is 02:03:26 infrastructure just completely fucking didn't do it and then just kept jacking up rates anyway for customers like it's you know at that point you go well hold on a second you took public funding are you a private company what does that even mean and i'm to be clear i'm i don't think by private companies you meant companies that are not publicly traded i think you meant not government-run entities so any private or public company um and so so this this problem this this train has been heading towards us for a long time. Yeah, if Google suddenly disappeared overnight, it would be disastrous. I think it's fair to use the D word.

Starting point is 02:04:17 Yeah, it'd be disastrous. What would the recourse be? I have no idea could you know does can you tell them you know send government agents to you know point a gun at them and tell them to turn the server back on like it fuck do you do right yeah I don't know silent loop doesn't know either okay I'm sorry I just don't have the answer to that one certainly a complicated one um oh no am i allowed to swear on this stream no okay i didn't think so um why don't you read

Starting point is 02:04:56 this one out then um if you two are jay and silent bob who at linus media group are dante and randall what do you think, Luke? Who would be our Randall? No, I don't think so. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I don't think either. I don't think so. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I don't think either. I don't think we are Jay and Bob anyway.

Starting point is 02:05:28 So I, cool question. Love it. Useful thought experiment. But I just don't have an answer for you. I'm sorry. I'm 0 for 2. I'm 0 for 2. 0 for 2.

Starting point is 02:05:39 Dan can swear if he wants. I don't give a shit. That's fine. Got one here from Patrick. Hi there. You mentioned that you had put in place a policy preventing personal items sd cards and such to be used at work what problems caused this to it's gone uh what problems caused this uh to exist how many items were lost

Starting point is 02:05:59 oh it wasn't that items were lost it was that that that's just stupid. Why are you bringing your own stupid fucking lens to work when you can just put in a procurement request and we'll buy a lens and you can keep your lens at home where it belongs and where it's not going to get damaged? Why are you putting wear and tear on your personal devices? I don't understand. There were times when we did need people

Starting point is 02:06:23 to help out with their personal devices admittedly uh we did not have a lot of money early on um and there have been times when procurement has been slow we didn't always have a procurement department but at this point if you can't get something procured then you need to like figure it out talk to someone in operations or procurement. Let's get her done. Because clearly, if you're having a problem, then someone else is probably also having a problem, and that's something that we need to solve. Yeah, I just didn't want to be

Starting point is 02:06:54 responsible for someone's expensive personal item getting lost or stolen. That sucks. Hopefully, my orders will be in soon this one is from Brayden hey guys I've never been able

Starting point is 02:07:10 to catch the show live but I'm at least able to send a merch message today I'm curious what you guys think about the leak of the Steam Deck 2 how did you want Valve to change progress with handhelds have a great week I did not see it. I also didn't hear about this.

Starting point is 02:07:28 I don't know. AMD, Little Phoenix. There seems to be not a lot of backing for this. So I'm not going to, I don't think I'm really really gonna weigh in on this one uh but how do i want valve to change slash progress i mean i mean steam deck is honestly really great uh more more more of that and more more better i'd love to see a little bit more battery life i'd love to see be quieter personally um higher resolution display honestly i'd rather

Starting point is 02:08:01 have an oled than a higher resolution lcd higher resolution LCD at this point, if it's a cost question, or if there's a trade-off there. I think that's about it for me. Okay, the last one I have curated is from Anonymous. When does Luke would want to retire? Well, Luke would love to answer that question for you, but his jaw's a little sore, if you know what i mean every once in a while i gotta play the character okay um i don't think luke wants to retire i think luke plans to work until he drops dead um i don't think he'd have it any other way. There's a few more. Joshua C. asks, Luke feel better?

Starting point is 02:08:52 Been revamping my resume site to apply. Does over-engineering carry much weight in consideration? I would say probably not too much. It's going to come more down to the interview and any kind of skill testing process that Luke has in place with his team i'm gonna go ahead and archive that uh steven says if you guys had a button that you press wait what if you guys had a button you had to press at the same time on your steam decks to start and stop the show kind of like those silly launch sequences oh you mean stream

Starting point is 02:09:21 decks haha confusing um like those silly launch sequences. That would be fun and completely not worth me paying anyone to code. I forbid anyone from the development team who is watching this to work on a feature like that. That is not valuable. Elias asks, what is your laptop and external GPU enclosure for when you travel and still have enough performance to play demanding titles? What is your laptop and external for when you... Oh, what do you use? Oh, I'm still using the Flow X13.

Starting point is 02:09:57 Yeah, that thing is sick with the external PCIe by 8 eGPU thing. That's pretty sick. the e by eight uh like uh e gpu thing that's pretty sick um i don't have to use that anymore now that framework properly supports thunderbolt on their latest laptop and i have upgraded mine to the to the latest platform but i just like already have all my games on that one and stuff so i just throw it in my bag i don't travel much anymore though so it doesn't really come up too much ajo says i think youtube often gives a false impression um linus media group is of course a business i'm not asking for names but how many people at lmg would you consider a friend like hanging out with after work or something uh man

Starting point is 02:10:37 it's tough i mean there's too many people here that i could realistically say I'm friends with everyone and I'd say that there's almost certainly going to be um a skew towards people who have been here longer just because I have a lot more familiarity with them and we know familiarity breeds contempt I mean um closeness I don't hang out with almost anyone after work, like just at all. So it's tough. Also the lines can be a little bit blurry sometimes. Like I'll, like I'll see people that Yvonne hangs out with after work sometimes, but that doesn't mean that like I would have invited them over.

Starting point is 02:11:20 Like in some cases that would have been super weird. Like if I invited, you know, yeah, I mean, I don't want to give like too much. I don't want to give any personal detail about anyone, but like, okay, we have a female colleague that comes over on Friday night. Sometimes I wouldn't invite them. That's I just wouldn't, you know, to my house on a Friday night. I just wouldn't you know to my house on a Friday night I just wouldn't it's not worth it even if nothing happened I don't want them to

Starting point is 02:11:56 have been there and me being there it's just it's not worth it you know people talk right um Yvonne can and I'll be like hi see you later enjoy craft night uh these the reasons i have to read them is because they haven't actually been like sorted yet so i'm just kind of yoloing it uh re asks, what's the most important tech upgrade in your house over a normal house? Ethernet. Ethernet and conduit everywhere.

Starting point is 02:12:28 Man, I love conduit. Just like run cables to places where that didn't have before cables. Ah, love it. And just having Ethernet everywhere is kind of like having emergency conduit. Because you can convert Ethernet to damn near anything. HDMI, freaking whatever. I don't know, man. Ethernet's awesome.

Starting point is 02:12:47 I love it. I'll use my second time of saying something. Conduit is one of the extremely few points in life where you can actually future-proof something. Yes. Conduit's cool. Rawl H asks, what would you say your videos are rated? I love watching with my son, but sometimes your sexual jokes are definitely not for kids. Can you please put a rating prior to starting the video?

Starting point is 02:13:09 I can tell you right now, there's probably not going to be a rating at the beginning of every video. That would be pretty jarring. I think it would open us up to widespread mockery. But if I had to give a rating, I'd say we're probably PG-13 for the most part. Today's WAN show is a bit of an exception. There was a fairly egregious amount of swearing.

Starting point is 02:13:29 I'm pretty sure this is going to end up with limited monetization. I think I've targeted and I'm probably going to land there. But yeah, PG-13 is sort of what we go for. Parental guidance is advised. Glad you like it, Chris L. All right, that's it for the show. We will see you again next week. Same bad time, same bad channel.

Starting point is 02:13:54 Bye. He tried, guys. He tried. That's as much as I can do. Dan's working on it. Oh, it broke the thing. Thanks, Chris L. I am sweating so very much. Hey, I'm wearing plastic.

Starting point is 02:14:20 There is zero breathability. I know you're suffering.

The WAN Show - YouTube Will Demonetize This Video - WAN Show January 13, 2023

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