Theology in the Raw - #622 - What is Church? - Part 3 - Reproducing vs. Church Growth - Being Relationally Driven

Episode Date: December 1, 2017

Preston is working to start a new church in Boise. This has him studying what church should be about.  What is church? What should church be? What should church look like? What should church pursue?  In this series, Preston is looking at 8 different values that the church should work to keep forefront as they continue and grow.  Value 4 and 6 - Reproducing vs. Church Growth and Being Relationally Driven

Thank you. Hello friends and welcome back to Theology in the Raw. This is part three of our series called What is Church? What is Church? And just a quick overview for those of you who may be just joining part three, who haven't listened to part one and two. This series is basically a summary of the values that me and some friends have established in a small little church plant that we have going on here in Boise. So this is primarily, well, it's primarily for the church that we're planting. So it's if you missed a Sunday or you just want to go back and listen to the values again, then what we're doing in this series is basically I'm summarizing what we talked about on Sunday and maybe try to address some of the questions that came up, try to, you know,

rehearse, if you will, the talk that I gave. So what we're doing is we're going through the eight values of our church. Let me read those again, just in case you're not familiar with those eight values. Number one, the centrality of mission. Talked about that a couple weeks ago. Number two, simplicity. Number three, generosity. We covered both of those in the previous podcast in the series. Number four, reproducing versus church growth, which we will talk about today, along with number six, which I'll get to in a second. Fifth value is participatory versus performance. Participatory versus performance, which we'll probably end up talking about this Sunday, and I'll podcast about it next week. The sixth value

is we want to be relationally driven. And we're actually going to cover that one today with the reproducing versus church growth, because that's, they kind of go hand in hand. So we're going to cover them together. Number seven, diversity and integration, diversity and integration. And number eight, we want to be theologically orthodox and theologically generous. I'm really excited about that one, actually, but it's a couple weeks away, so you'll have to wait. Let's dive into reproducing versus church growth and being relationally driven. These two values go hand in hand. When I think of reproducing versus church growth, I don't, again, want to be negative on the desire to grow as a church.

In fact, I think it's in the heart of any person, really, especially any pastor or leader. When things are growing, when things are showing signs of success, that can get very, very exciting. But we want to, we do want to grow, but we want to grow in the right way. I don't, I'm not particularly excited about transfer growth. Just, it really depends on why the transfer or, you know, why they left the other church. But it just seems like it's a growing problem. I mean, it's been a growing problem, but I think people are more than ever recognizing it now that the church in, as far as conversion growth in America, it's shrinking. Discipleship,

the depth of discipleship is really thin. Millennials are fleeing the church in droves. The church is not on a very good progression in America across the board, and yet there are churches that are growing, but a lot of that growth, not all of it, but a lot of it is simply transfer growth. People going from one church to another. There are so many options, and it's very easy to go to the one that has, you know, the teaching that's a little bit better or has worship that you enjoy more or simply has a, you know, philosophy of ministry or doctrinal statement that you're more attracted to. And none of those are really intrinsically wrong or bad. It's just

a matter of fact. But when a church is growing, my biggest question is always, well, who is growing it? Or not who, but like, what kinds of people are the growth? Is it people getting saved, getting converted? Is it people moving in from out of town and they're looking for a church and land at your church? Or is it people that, you know, a couple months before they were at another church that had a better worship service, but, you know, the pastor's been kind of off the last few weeks and his teaching has just been a little bit cluttery, and so they're getting a little bit bored with that, so they go on to a different church because the teaching is better. None of this is wrong, but I get more excited,

very excited about conversion growth or growth from Christians who simply are not involved in a church. This is something that we wanted to establish at the very beginning of this very young church plant. We're about six weeks in, is that we were not going to invite anybody that is involved in another church. Even if they're like not happy, they're like, hey, yeah, we're just kind of doing, you know, just kind of going through the motions, but we're members of this church over here. We don't really like it. You know, the sermons are getting kind of dull and crusty and worship is getting outdated. And if we talk to someone like that, we don't

even really tell them what we're doing, saying like, hey, why don't you come check us out? That is not what we are going to do. In fact, all of the people that are involved in this small little church plant of about 40, 50 people, all of them, I'm pretty sure all of them, were not at a church previous to this plant. They're all Christians. We don't have any converts yet. The goal is to change that. But I'm pretty sure it's 100% were Christians that simply, for whatever reason or another, are not going to or being involved with another church. There's a couple that, you know, a few of them that maybe recently had left the church and then they happened to find this like right when they had already left, but they were already kind of exiting another church and we make sure

that those are good reasons to do so. Let's go back to these values, reproducing versus church growth and being relationally driven. We want the main draw of our church to be the family-like authentic relationships that believers should engage in. If you're, if you're struggling with depression or anxiety or an addiction, I mean, I want church, the gathering to be the first place you run to.

Like if you're having marriage problems, come to church and we'll, we'll, we'll pray over you. We'll, we'll counsel you. We'll pay for the professional help you might need if you and your wife or spouse are really struggling. If you're doubting God, addicted to porn, apathetic about your faith, if you experience same-sex attraction

or confusion over your gender identity or a myriad of other issues that we are all struggling with on one level or another, we want church and even our gatherings to be the safe and authentic place to be human, and to be human is to struggle. We will all enter the new creation with a limp, and we want to create that kind of vibe. We want that to be the draw, not the teaching, not the worship. We want quality teaching, and we want to worship God with our hearts, but we don't want that to be the draw at all. We don't want the comfort of the room or the vibe to be the draw. We want, number one, the family-like relationships to be the draw of the church. If that is not what you're into, then this is definitely not the type of plant or church that is going to be very

attractive to you. So what's with this reproducing versus church growth? So we are following the We Are Church model in San Francisco. And as I said before, we are developing some level of partnership with them, talking through that. And if you're not familiar with that, Google We Are Church and check out the website, check out the values. You will see that a lot of the stuff, almost everything that I'm talking about in this series is probably found in one way or another on that website. So we are learning from them. Now, one thing that We Are Church does practically is they are a network of small, for lack of better terms, house churches. Each house church has two unpaid pastors. Nobody gets paid.

We talked about that last week that there's not a dime that goes into making the gathering or church happen. So everything is quote unquote volunteer. Yes, volunteers with the spirit of God who has breathed life into them. So we have the best volunteers in the world because we have people who have been endowed with the spirit who breathed stars into existence. We have the best volunteers in the world because we have Christians who have the Spirit of God in them. Now, whether or not they have harnessed that power is another question, but everybody comes with more power and gifts and skills and talents and contributions than they can even fathom. skills and talents and contributions than they can even fathom. So what makes a church run? The Spirit of God makes a church run. So every six months to a year, six to 12 months, according to

the We Are Church model, they seek to reproduce. So you have one gathering, say it starts off with 15 people, maybe it grows at 25 or 30. And the goal is that when two other leaders are ready, then that gathering will reproduce into another gathering. So that now you have two small house churches, if you will. And here's the difference between We Are Church and the, I guess, typical house church models is that We Are Church is a network of small gatherings that gather in homes, but they all gather once a month in a large, massive celebration. And so right now, I think they're up to like 16 different home groups, house churches, whatever. I don't know what term to use. I don't love house churches because it kind of has a stigma behind it, but it is what it is.

We do meet in a house and it is a church. So once a month, though, they gather together and have a massive celebration all together. And they have a meal at every single gathering. They break bread at every single gathering. They have teaching, worship, lots of prayers, lots of fellowship, doing the Acts 242 thing week to week in homes and once a month in a large gathering. So we are going to try to follow that model. So it may be six months to a year before we break off, but the goal is never to grow the large gathering. Even if, you know, somebody says, hey, we're going to donate this

bigger building so we can get more people in here. So now we can have 200 people or maybe 300, maybe we can go to 400 people and then we can hire somebody. And we are not going down that path. Now, you can get sick of hearing me say this, but I'm not saying that path is intrinsically wrong. I just want to explore a different way of doing church and thinking through growth so that the primary rhythm, listen, the primary rhythm of gathering and being the church happens in small communities. Now, every single pastor on earth is going to desire that their people are involved in small groups. And this is, you know, what a lot of people say. You know, they'll say, well, so you're doing basically a kind of a, you know, what a lot of churches are doing. They do, you know, they focus on small groups.

And that's true. I don't know a single pastor who says, no, I don't want people to gather in small groups. Like everybody wants it to happen. But the system is still, I would say the system is still oriented around the Sunday morning service. Like if you cancel, if you didn't have a Sunday morning service, you wouldn't have a job really as a pastor. I mean, much of your focus is in some way related to the Sunday

morning service and a lot of time and energy and money and personnel goes into, on some level or another, making that service happen. And the small group ministry, even if it's very vital and right there as part of the mission, it still does seem to be, in my experience, more subsidiary to the Sunday morning larger gathering. So what we want to do is recognize the value of both of those things, but invert the entire system. We want to invert the entire system so that the primary rhythm is not large gatherings and more of a production or, you know, a professionalized service where you have kind of a polished sermon and rehearsed worship music and organization. We want to invert the entire system so that the primary rhythm is not that, but the primary rhythm is the small gatherings. Now, we're not against large

gatherings at all, which is why we want to do it once a month. And we were going to put a lot of time and energy into that. But at once a month, it's not going to be as difficult to pull off. And again, in the We Are Church movement in San Francisco, they've been doing this about five years, and it seems to be working pretty well. So we want to invert the entire system so that the primary rhythm of church gathering is in small groups. Now, there's two reasons for this. We're not doing this just to be edgy or just to follow Francis Chan or just to, you know, thumb our noses at the institutional church. Not at all. There's two reasons why we want to make the small gatherings the primary rhythm of church. well, sorry, the two reasons are two of our other values. So number one, when small gatherings are the primary rhythm, it will help maintain simplicity and generosity. Remember, simplicity and generosity go together. When things are small and contained in the living room, it's much, much

easier to maintain simplicity. When things get bigger and when bigger becomes the primary rhythm, then it's very hard to maintain simplicity. And when it's hard to maintain simplicity, it's harder, not impossible, but harder to maintain generosity. But when we keep things simple, it frees up resources to be incredibly generous to other people. So like last Sunday, there was a, I'm not gonna give any names just because I don't know if people in the church want their names being thrown on the air here, but there was one of our church goers knows a couple single ladies in need. One is in a wheelchair, I believe. And the other one, both of them are strapped financially, like seriously strapped. And so we're like, man, let's just bless them with

gift cards and food baskets and money and whatever. And that's what we're doing because we don't, all those resources are totally freed up. Like all of us that are going, we don't, all those resources are totally freed up. Like all of us that are going, you know, we have these, you know, our giving funds and our bank accounts and our, you know, financial folders is growing. We have this extra money. So let's just shower people in need with our quote unquote ties and offerings. But we can only do that because the gatherings are simple and there's nothing else that's sucking up our resources. So the reason, one of the reasons why we want to maintain the, what the primary rhythm to be in small gatherings is to be able to uphold and maintain the values of simplicity and generosity.

Number two, number two, second reason why we want small gatherings to be the primary rhythm is because it helps prioritize relationships as a primary value. And this might, well, see, all these values are important, but this, gosh, this might be at the very top. At least it's number two. I don't know if I want to rank them, but this is really the beat of my heart, is that when I read the New Testament, church, the coming together, the gathering, the fellowship, the life on life is relationally driven. And when I read the New Testament, I see, you know, there's, according to one count, 59 one another's in the Bible. Like, do this to one another and be this to one another. And, you know, just, I got a few of them written out here.

Be at peace with each other. Mark 9 50. Wash one another's feet. Love one another over and over and over. In fact, the third of the 59 one another's has to do with loving one another. Another third has to do with unity. Did you know that? That a third of the one another's has something to do with unity. Did you know that? That a third of the one another's has

something to do with unity, like honor one another above yourselves. Romans 12, 10, be devoted to one another in brotherly love. Live in harmony with one another. Romans 12, 16. Romans 14, 13 says, stop passing judgment on one another. Accept one another as Christ accepted you. Instruct one another. When you come together to eat for the Lord's supper, wait for one another. Accept one another as Christ accepted you. Instruct one another. When you come together to eat for the Lord's Supper, wait for one another. Have equal concern for one another. Serve one another in love. If you keep on biting and devouring each other, you will be destroyed by each other. That's kind of a negative one in Galatians 5.15. And over and over and over, 59 one another's. Now, if all you do is show up at a large service, get lost in the crowd, and hear amazing sermons, and worship God at the top of your lungs, which is, both are amazing,

both are great things, but you can do that over and over and over. You can do that for years and never be put in a place where you have to obey one of these 59 commands. That's a lot of commands. I mean, you could argue that the one another's is kind of the glue that's holding this church thing together. I mean, the spirit's the glue or whatever, but these one another's seem to be, they're scattered all over the place when the New Testament's talking about gathering together

and being the church. And I'm like, man, I want to create a system where you can't be part of the church. And I'm like, man, I want to create a system where you can't be part of the church unless you are put in a place where you are faced with the opportunity, the joyful challenge to love one another, to be at peace with one another, to stop backbiting and to get along with people that vote differently than you and look differently than you and have different likes and dislikes and interests than you. I want to make the one another's and the relationships a front and center value of our church gathering. So again, the reproducing versus church growth is not just

kind of a trendy thing. And it's definitely not, you know, some strategy to, you know, create as many churches as I can so that, you know, can so that I can have some big thing going on. That's not it at all. I don't need another big thing going on. We are doing this so that, number one, to maintain simplicity and generosity, and number two, to prioritize relationships as a primary value. as a primary value. The church, the main metaphor for the church in the Bible has to do with family. The church is a family. Remember that passage in Matthew 12, 46 to 50, when Jesus's mother and brothers and sisters are outside and people are like, hey, your mother and brothers and sisters are outside. And people are like, hey, your mother and brother and sisters are outside. They need to talk to you.

And according to Mark's gospel, they thought he was kind of going nuts. So they wanted to go rescue him and put him in a sane asylum or something. And he looks around and says, whoever does the will of my father is my brother and sister and mother. And you see this theme throughout the New Testament. You see the theme of Christians. Sorry, I reached for a book and I dropped a bunch of other stuff here. You see the theme of Christians being, not acting kind of like a family, but being a family.

This is a really countercultural move in the New Testament that this gathering of non-blood related people is as thick as blood because it's held together by the blood of Christ. The blood of Christ is thicker than the blood of our relatives. And so you see Jesus constantly, and Paul does the same thing. And just every time he uses the term brother or sister to refer to other believers, he is, um, I mean, he's making a very bold statement that the church isn't kind of like a family, but it is family. There's this passage in Mark 10 that just has blown me away recently. It's the passage on the heels of the rich young ruler, Mark 10, the passage on the heels of the rich young ruler.

Mark 10, 17 and following. You remember the rich young ruler says, hey, I want to inherit eternal life. And Jesus says, all right, well, obey the law, do all the commandments. And he goes, yeah, I've done all that. And Jesus sort of rolls his eyes and says, all right, yeah, right. You know, but well, here's what you haven't done. You haven't, you know, sell all your things and give to the poor. And then Jesus talks about how it's so hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.

And then Peter, I don't know if you remember this, but Peter pipes up and he says in verse 28, Mark 10, 28, we have left everything to follow you. Like, look at us. We're so great. We've made the sacrifice that that stupid rich young ruler couldn't do. And we're so much better than him. You can just sense the judgmentalism and narcissism in the air. And Jesus says, look, Peter, no one has left home or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or fields for me in the gospel

who will not receive a hundred times as much. Now watch this. In this present age. Homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children, and fields. Along with persecutions and in the age to come eternal life. What is he talking about there? What are the homes and brothers and sisters and mothers and family and children and fields and stuff? Is Jesus all of a sudden falling back into some health and wealth gospel here where he says, if you believe in me and you give up all your stuff, then you will actually receive lots of more wealth and riches back? Is this a promise that

you will get married and have kids and be happily ever after? No. What Jesus is promising Peter, what Jesus is telling Peter is, don't you think you got the short end of the stick because the reward that you have for giving up everything is way, way better. What is that reward? Well, it is eternal life. And Jesus makes that clear in verse 30. And that's usually our big selling point for the gospel is like, well, you got to give up this stuff and this and that and say no to this and say yes to this and yada, yada, yada, but you get eternal life. And that's great. I mean, if that's all it was and that would be enough, right? Okay. But we are missing out on a massive selling point in the gospel because it's becoming difficult for us to believe and truly offer what Jesus says

at the beginning of verse 30, that when you give up everything, you receive a family. Not a blood family, a church family. You receive homes. You receive brothers and sisters and fields. You receive fellowship, richness, joy, authenticity. You receive relationships that run thicker than blood because it's held together by the blood of Jesus. You receive a bunch of people that will watch out for you. You receive health insurance because if somebody in you, if you or your family gets sick, then the rest of the church will care for you. You receive life insurance because if you fall upon hard times, we've got your back. We will cover you. You don't need to worry about anything because you are part of a family and we

are giving up everything for each other. Now, if you try to sell people on that and they say, man, that's pretty amazing. I'm going to go ahead and give up everything and follow Jesus so that I can receive that. Because that sounds really attractive because my Twitter account is not giving that to me. My Facebook friends are not giving that to me. And shoot, my real family is not giving that to me. And even my friends might be, you know, a little hit and miss, but I want that. I want genuine family-like relationships. Here's the biggest problem is if we try to sell people on that, if they only show up at a large church gathering and get greeted with kind of superficial smiles or maybe an interesting conversation, but no real connection, then we are missing out on giving people the reward, part of the massive reward that Jesus

promises for giving up everything. I want to create a church where it's messy, there is backbiting, there's the need for 59 commands to love one another and be humble towards one another and uphold one another because we struggle with that daily. We are naturally narcissistic and care for ourselves and selfish and judgmental and so on and so forth. Relationships are messy. environment, a church environment that is family, where you are known and you know, where you are loved and you love, where you learn to get along with much stuff and little stuff. And when you have much stuff, you give to the person with less stuff. And when you have less stuff, people help you out. There is a sharing of resources, a breaking of bread, and a fellowship that is so vibrant that it makes all these other avenues, social media avenues, grasping for value in this

platform or that platform or whatever, just pale in comparison to the rich fellowship of being united in a family. I believe, and we'll see if this works itself out, but I believe that when the gathering is primarily small, when the primary rhythm of the gathering is small, it will help. Not guarantee, not guarantee. I mean, you can show up at a small gathering and still be superficial for 10 years. And if nobody breaks down those walls, it's, yeah, you can. Just being in a room together doesn't guarantee the relationships are going to happen. But I do believe that they are the best avenue to help foster, to help accomplish that sort of family-like gathering or relational network

that Jesus promises to Peter, who thought he gave up all to follow Christ. This is Theology in a Raw, folks. This is part three of our series on What is Church? Join me next week for part four as we look at participation versus performance. Thank you.