Theology in the Raw - Discipleship, Orphan Care, Education, and Gospel-Centered Health Care in Uganda: Brent Phillips and the Cherish Uganda Team

Episode Date: October 7, 2024

Last June, my family and I, along with a few other friends, visited an awesome ministry called Cherish Uganda. We were so impressed with this ministry that we decided to record a podcast on site, where we talked with one of their leaders Brent Phillips and several others from the team at Cherish Uganda. Cherish Uganda is a faith-based nonprofit organization dedicated to fostering hope & a promising future for families in need. Their mission is: To transform our community spiritually through education, healthcare, & family strengthening. Cherish is doing some amazing, holistic, and gospel-centered ministry outside of Kampala, Uganda. Please consider donating to this ministry here: https://www.cherishuganda.com/donate-1 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey friends, welcome back to another episode of theology in the raw. This is going to be a different sort of podcast. We are going to hear from several people who work for an awesome ministry in Uganda. It's called Cherish Uganda, which is a faith-based nonprofit organization dedicated to fostering hope and a promising future for families in need. The mission of Cherish is to transform our community spiritually through education, healthcare and family strengthening. Originally an orphanage, Cherish has grown to engage in better, more holistic ways of caring for orphans and their families and also provides healthcare, maternity care, education and discipleship and counseling for the local

community of Garuga, Uganda, which is about 30 minutes outside of Kampala. So my family and I, and a few friends, visited Cherish last June. We actually went to several different places in Kenya and Uganda. And one of the places we visited was Cherish. And if I'm totally honest, I have grown skeptical of the ways in which white Western Christians have historically engaged in ministries in, in, in Africa in particular, but also other cross-cultural contexts. I, I think, I think there is a place for ministry partnership, but I think there has just been a lot of damage that has been done. Oftentimes because we don't pay attention to the, you know, some cultural differences. We don't realize how sometimes our well-meaning help

can actually lead to long-term harm. And the list goes on and on. I've talked about this on the podcast before I'm also a bit skeptical of the limitations or even again, unforeseen harm that short-term mission trips can do. Now, before you protest that statement, I have engaged in many short-term mission trips and I will continue to do so. I don't know if we should call them mission trips. I like cross-cultural ministry experience might be a better way to frame it, but I've been, I've been skeptical of, of again, some of the unforeseen damage that short-term trips can do. So what do we do? We took a bunch of white people on a short-term trip to Africa, But part of the goal was to see, what are some ministries that are very aware of the, the unforeseen dangers, how money can play a weird role,

some of the cross-cultural differences, other ministries doing this well. And I got in touch with Brent Phillips, who was one of the early leaders of cherish Uganda over, over the last several months. He's actually been on the podcast before you, you might've heard, remember, you might remember the conversation I had with him last spring. And from what I can tell, I'm like, man, you guys seem to be doing something really, really awesome here. You're very aware of all of the unforeseen damage that can come from white Westerners doing ministry in Africa and seem to be navigating that really well. So I wanted to see, I want to see what does a good short-term trip look like. So that's what this is. This is filmed and recorded on site in Cherish, Uganda. So this, I know

this is coming out a few months after it was recorded, but you're going to hear first from Brent Phillips. And then you're going to hear from several people, local Ugandans who work for cherish just to hear their heart, hear what they do, hear how discipleship pervades everything that this ministry does. If you love missions, you love cross-cultural ministry. I think you'll really, really enjoy this very unique series of conversations that we're going to have on this episode. I would like to direct your attention to some links in the show notes. If you feel led to support the mission and the work that cherish Uganda is doing, look,

I I'm one who is again, since I'm airing out all my skepticism, you know, there is sometimes it's hard to know like what's a good cause to give to. How can I trust a ministry? Do I know where the money's going? Are they using it? Well, how do I even know that I can say firsthand cherish is an absolutely stunning ministry that is well, well worth your contribution. Yeah. I'll just leave it at that. We, we do talk a little about a little bit about finances toward the end. And I just want you to know that Brent, neither Brent nor the team at Cherish at all was asking for this, but I just said, no, I want to invite our listeners and watchers. If you're watching on YouTube to consider donating to the great work that cherish is doing. And yeah, since this is

filmed in site, you might want to pop over to the YouTube version of this. You can see the kind of background of cherish, which is situated in kind of a jungle era area just south of, of Campala. So without further ado, please welcome to the show, the one and only Brent Phillips and his awesome team at Cherish Uganda. All right. I am here with my good friend Brent Phillips live from Uganda, Cherish Uganda. Brent, this is, this is a, I've never filmed in the jungle before, so

thanks so much for being part of this. We have so much to talk about. I will say, first of all, that we did record an episode a few months ago, episode 1168. So this is almost like a part two follow-up in that episode. We were kind of exploring what Cherish Uganda is, learning about good and bad of short-term missions, the good and bad of Westerners doing ministry in Africa. And then we decided, all right, we want to come see Cherish Uganda on a short-term mission trip and try not to do things wrong, you know. So we've had an amazing week here. So why don't you give us a,

there was that previous episode, people want the full, thorough picture that can go listen to that, but give us a, for most who are not gonna go back and listen to that, give us a brief version. What is Cherish Uganda and how did you get involved in this ministry? Yeah, Cherish started off probably 17 or 18 years ago

as an orphanage for kids with HIV. And HIV was just, it still is an issue, but it was a significant issue that was still untapped ministry of opportunities and needs. And there was a church network from the UK came down, started Cherish. And we, at that time we were pastoring in the States, been doing that our whole lives.

And through just, you know, instances that can only be described as divine, my wife ends up in Uganda, stumbles across this little, seemed like a piece of heaven at the time, which it even more so does now. And we just felt like, I think this is where God wants us now and next.

And never part of the plan. And God plucked us out of Austin, Texas and moved our family here. And we jumped into ministry that has been the most difficult, costly, and taxing of our life, and yet the most rich, deep, and fruitful at the same time. And over the course of the years, churches changed from an HIV orphanage that was solely focused on the kids that we brought on site to move into family-based care, moving those kids into either kinship care, like family members we found,

or foster care, we did adopt a few out. Then we had a few that we actually did transition into independent living that have kind of grown up. And we are now, our real focus is spiritual formation. We are a spiritual transformation ministry that endeavors to do that through health care, through education, and through social work. And so what used to be a ministry that was focused on this site has now spread out to into this community and into even other parts of the world as people are starting to go, what's happening over there? Can you talk about that a bit? And so it's been just an amazing journey.

Like I said, really difficult and hard and at the same time, just so joy-filled. Can you tell us the various ministries that are happening here at Cherish? Cause there's, you know, we've been here all week and I want to come to you like the nature of this short-term trip, which I would say has been the best short-term experience I've

ever had. And it's so intentional and so maybe, yeah, intentional, I guess is the best word. Tell us about the various ministries happening here on the 25 acres that we're sitting on. Healthcare is a key one. It's a massive need for our community. And we started off just as a small clinic that was probably the size of what you can see in this camera and has now moved into a full scale, 24 hours, seven days a week hospital, and we have pharmacy and a lab and counselor and kind of a full service thing that just focuses on whatever needs walk through the door. So we did a lot of tropical diseases. You deal with dental malaria and foodborne illnesses,

a lot of accidents, just people falling in fires, all the crazy things that happen in this community. And recently in December, we opened up our maternity ward, really saw the need of mothers giving birth to healthy babies. And it really stems from our first stem from our idea of like, like if we're here to really kind of meet this need that HIV is brought about, the number one way to have transmission for HIV in Uganda is mother to child.

That's the number one. That's the number one. And so it just makes sense that we, we need to tackle that. Like let's, you know, the old, let's stop pulling kids out of the river, but let's go up and find out why they're falling in. Right. And so it's, things well beyond my understanding medically, cause I'm not a doctor, but an HIV positive mom can give birth

to an HIV negative child if it's done correctly with the right procedures and the right equipment. And so that's what we do. We start with those moms as soon as they find out they're pregnant. And we endeavor to walk the whole entire journey with them all the way through till post immunizations and all the way with trainings and discipleship

and ultrasounds and all the stuff they need to really and make sure that that baby grows up and that that mom understands who she is and who God is and the whole midst of it. So that thing has been a really, that's a recent thing. That's why I'm really excited about that. And then we have a school and we used to run a very traditional Ugandan curriculum and then COVID hit, shut everything down.

The country shut down school for two years. The longest of any country in the world. Yeah, that's crazy. And at first that was a very negative thing. Although it was negative, but quickly we realized this is actually a great opportunity for us to even just evaluate, are we doing school the way that we feel like we're supposed to do?

And really start to ask God about it and ended up completely flipping that over and scraping it off and started over and have built a neurodevelopment curriculum and really starting to work with processing and problem solving. And we teach basic reading and writing and math. So they're going to walk away with some real good skills to live life. But same time, we're just trying to help those brains get rewritten and really be able to focus on not the trauma and the just the tough stuff that they've grown up in,

but how do they rise above that and all the while we're discipling the students as we go through. So most of the kids have some kind of some kind of learning disability or what would be the language or they're underdeveloped? Probably, yeah quite underdeveloped. Nutrition is a big issue in our community, lack thereof. Typically within this impoverished community like this, you have a lot of moms and dads, they're either working or trying to get work and kids spend a lot of time alone or laid under a mango tree while mom's digging in the gardens. And so there's just not a lot of those development things that happen. And so a lot of those milestones are just missed and either come way delayed or don't happen at all.

And so we're just trying to pull that back in and kind of start to rewrite that story. Okay. Yeah. So medical education. And then we have social work teams and those are the ones that are going out into the community. And so full social work write-ups on, you know, key patients that are struggling with issues at home, students, so basically teachers, nurses, they'll be like, they sense something's going on here

well beyond what is presented as an educational need or a medical need. And then social work team gets called in and out in the community they go. And so they end up doing marriage counseling. Like this crazy stuff that social workers end up doing. Just helping people with health and hygiene stuff. It's just so many needs are presented

as they kind of walk in and amongst our people. So those are kind of the three main things we do. Pastoral training, local pastors, we do sports ministry with the, we have the, one of the only full size level, uh, soccer field for miles and miles and miles. So it's kind of a magnet for the community. And so we do a lot on that soccer pitch as well. Yeah. Um, so one of the things we talked about in the last episode and one of the things we've talked about before, I've talked about a lot on the podcast is just the role of Western white wealthy missionaries in a place like Africa.

And I would say over the years, it has been a little discouraging because you keep seeing like, okay, we did this wrong, we did that wrong. And then you have colonialism and the kind of lasting mark that has. And then there's just so many problems it seems like. Can you summarize just maybe if that's new to some people, like what are some of the unintentional problems that Westerners can bring when they do ministry in a place like Africa? And then the follow-up is gonna be what can Western missionaries do well.

Cause I think you've been through a growth period in that. For sure. And in my opinion, you've everything, your whole perspective now, I was like, okay, I think you've hit the sweet spot. So yeah, take us through that journey. We've been with Cherish for about 14 years. And when we first came, there was some wise people

that just told us, you need to come as a student. Don't think you're gonna roll in here and have all the solutions. If they were that easy, they'd have already been fixed. There's some deeper issues and you really need to just sit. And so we did our best just to sit and watch and look and listen, both to what is happening here in our community and also to the others that have gone before us

and what happened there? And I think that one of the main issues is with our mindset as a Westerner is we're a very efficient, effective, results driven, get stuff done kind of people. And so when we roll into a situation and there are things that don't look as they should, we want to immediately start to fix them. And what happens is one, we don't really have a clear picture of what even caused that problem. And so our solution

either might have been tried and it failed before, or it's not going to work, or it's going to hurt people in the process. And so we just jump in way too early. And often what happens too, is we basically are telling this community, you guys don't know how to do this. You don't have what it takes, but don't worry. I do. And I'm here and we're going to make this happen. And it's not this intentional thought.

Like we don't walk in and bust open the Superman outfit and I'm going to do it, but it's kind of the air that we step into it with often when we step into these kinds of environments. And so, what we have really tried to do is figure out how do we step into this ministry and not come with all of the answers to the apparent problems, but how do we empower and train and encourage and equip the people that God has already placed here and we work together as teams? Are those wild?

Those are wild dogs that sometimes crawl into the fence. Oh, okay. Security will deal with those at some point. Okay. Security will deal with those at some point. OK. Yeah, so I think that's one of the major ones is just, we don't come at it as from a team aspect of we're in this with you. And there is countless, like all over Africa,

there's been billions of dollars sent to Africa. And you kind of look around and go, what? Where to go? You know, you roll into a village and you'll see like this beautiful, massive generator that's sitting there and it's not working. No one has power. And you find out, wow, somebody bought that and brought it and set it up and flip the switch.

And they did a little party and walked away. And the first time it broke, no one knew what to do, where to get the parts to fix it. And now it is a relic that sits there that thousands and thousands of dollars were dumped into. And now it is a clothesline. So a lot of those kinds of things, because I didn't think through the whole process, like, yeah, we want to bring power that could be amazing to

this community, but what about is that thing breaks down and how do people maintain it and where do you get the parts to actually fix that? And what really will this do? You know, there, there is some, there is some great water well projects that have happened all over Africa. It does some amazing things. But there's a flip side of that, of women are walking a couple miles to get water every day.

There's something that happens in that walk that we don't even think about. And the relationship things that happened. And all of a sudden, the well that you had there, you now have moved and put a well here where they used to go to the river now they're here and now that walk has stopped and now these women relationally aren't connecting anymore and all of a sudden now there's starting to be some relational fractures within the village and community and that weren't

there for decades that now are there because oh you, you shouldn't have to walk to the river. Let's bring it here. And it's, like I said, it's not intentional. It's just, unless we sit and kind of really look and understand what is really happening here and is my solution actually gonna make things better? Or is it just more about efficiency and effectiveness and that's what we're gonna focus on.

Relationships is everything here. Like if you're not focused on building relationships. Yeah, business is based on relationships, ministry is based, everything is based on relationships. Yeah, all of it. So with the medical services here, with the school, with everything here, nothing's free. Tell us about that because I think the mindset of Westerners,

we have all this money, gosh, we can solve it just by, we'll buy this, we'll buy that, well, we can pay for everything here. But you, even the poorest of the poor have to pay something. They come in, deliver a baby and like, I don't want, they say, I don't have any money. Like- No, we have a seat. So tell us about the logic behind that. It's really about dignity. It's really that saying we're going to come alongside of you. It's not that you are so poor and we are so sorry, but don that saying, we're gonna come alongside of you. It's not that you are so poor and we are so sorry, but don't worry, we'll fix it for you. It's so we're gonna come alongside you.

Let's figure out what has God given you and then let's see what we have and let's put it together and let's do this thing. And so like you see it play out in like school when it comes time to pay the school fees and you'll see a parent or grandmother come in and they'll pull out all these coins and they'll put out the little bit that they're and they slide that

across the table with like, yeah, this is my granddaughter and I'm paying for her to go to school. And just that now that granddaughter doesn't see is like, oh, my grandma's needs a handout. Like, grandma put me put me through school. And we subsidize greatly to make that happen. But that dignity piece is so important and to empower them like we're doing this and we're not gonna sit and do all this work to pay for this while you don't work.

Like let's help you figure out how to get a job. And there's a lot of just walking life with people that just even comes around. How do I help them? Because what happens too is if you don't have any money, well, what do you have? That's when social workers get involved and realize, oh, you got some chickens there. You know what?

If you give us eggs for the next two weeks from that chicken, you take half the eggs for you and we'll take half the eggs for us. And we calculate per egg, the market value. Look at, you're gonna pay for this in you know, four weeks. And just like the thought process, oh, you're right. You're right. You're right. And just let's engage with this together. So yeah, everything costs something little like a

baby. It's remarkable. The cost for us is $107 to have a child to give birth here, which is virtually nothing compared to Yeah, yeah. But we require the mom to pay $7. $7, okay. Yeah, your average Ugandan makes $2 a day. So you're gotta figure out how to get three and a half days wages you gotta come up with to pay for that baby. And so some people it's the payment plan.

Like there's some options we work through with people. So we subsidize with a hundred bucks, mom pays her seven and yeah. What are some of the problems that you being a white guy here, a mazungu, you come in, you do ministry, what are some of the unforeseen problems that that brings? When you go out into the community and you're building relationships, you're doing ministry, you're even here on Cherish,

like, yeah, what are some of the hurdles that that brings just you as a white person here? Do people look to you kind of like? They do, yeah. There's oftentimes they'll be sitting in meetings and they always look to the white guy for the answer and you're constantly trying to redirect to our leadership. You can get steadfast into various

means in the community and you know, they do that. I think that the issue, you know, you might not feel wealthy, I don't feel like a wealthy individual, right, but compared to the amount of money that I have access to, compared to the amount of money in our community, I am extremely wealthy. And they know that. And so sometimes that gets in the barrier of relationship and you're wondering is this person trying to get close to me because what they're going to want later and then when they do ask like how does that all work so it ends up how we're building a relationship based on what you can get rather than just and we're just two guys hanging out and so it takes

some time to kind of it takes longer to build time. And the truth is, we've been here for 14 years, and we still get asked for money all the time, not from our staff. Occasionally, if they have a really desperate time, they will. But from the community, you know, all the time, it's just, I'm not sure that's gonna go away. Yeah, I'm soon. So that that does get in the way. But you worked yourself out of a job basically, right? Like Cherish now.

Yeah. Yeah. Was that was unintentional? And why is that important? Yeah. From the very beginning, Cherish has set up like at some point we want the Nationals to run this place all the day to day. And so Lee and I lived here for six, seven years and just poured our heart into it and into our people. Really. I'm like, you asked me the other day,

was it yesterday we were at the school, like, do these kids know you? Like, no, they don't. Because we're not investing all of our time and energy into programming with kids at school. Like our staff did that. And then the beginning we did a lot of that, a lot of mentoring and training and modeling. But then once that training was done, we stepped back out of that.

And so we are, when we come here, I spend a lot of time doing meetings. He was here a month and a half ago in meetings from sunup to sundown, but that's just all of our staff. It's just staff development and staff training. And how do we continue to encourage you and empower you to do what God's called you to do here? So right now on the ground, the day-to-day is completely run by nationals. I mean, you're still, you know, from the States.

From the States, yeah. And probably four to six meetings a week. And those are just, you know, just discipleship meetings, probably half of them. Anything to do with administrative tasks. The other part is really focused on accountability. Okay. And just, you know, this is what we say we're gonna do. I'm here to hold you accountable to actually do it.

Let's talk through the problems that come up. But yeah, we're not running programs. We're not doing any of that stuff. It's just all about how do we just help our staff to be who they're supposed to be in this place. So we're here with eight people on our short-term mission trip. And over the years, man, I have gotten a growing education

on the pros and cons of short-term trips. And I feel like for a while, I just kept hearing con after con after con. But we're here, we're on a short-term trip. And you host teams. You're very, probably the most intentional of a host, not just you, but just Cherish as a whole, in hosting a short-term trip.

Can you tell us a bit about what that looks like and the logic behind how you go about hosting teams the way you do? Yeah, Lee and I, we've been on a lot of those as well over the years, pastoring, you You know, there's a lot of stuff in South America, Brazil and Honduras and doing these trips, even leading some of these trips and just realizing a lot of the things that we were doing, like, I'm not sure we're leaving any

sort of lasting thing. And I'm not sure we're going away as changed as we could be in the process. And then we move here and start to look around and go, oh yeah, I think there's a way better way to do this. Because we're starting to think, oh, we need to bring a team out and they're going to build this building. But then think, all right, I bring out 10 people who don't really know how to construct any buildings.

If they do, they don't know how to do it based on what's needed here. They're building a building. Meanwhile, I got people out in the village who need jobs. They're looking through the fence at substandard work going on with people who don't even need the work. And so- Why are they taking my job? Yeah, exactly.

So we just decided that we're not gonna do that. We don't wanna bring people here to do work that our people can already do. This idea of, I just want to come and hold the kids and love the kids and pray on kids. Well, you're assuming we don't already love and hold and pray for kids. Like we do that here.

We don't need you to come do it and stay here for a week and then leave because it's all built on relationship. So when we bring teams, what we want you to do is just step in and be a part of what's happening here. And so we call it Live the Rhythm. And so you've been in the school, you've been walking security, you've been slashing grass. You've been,

you have been doing all the things that we do every day. Cause if we hit the button, pause button and we sing and dance and we do things, and then when you leave, you're like, man, we're a week behind. And they didn't really see what we do here. So we want you to see what we do here and we wanna keep doing what we do here and we don't want you to get in the way.

And same time we wanna build relationships. Like you already know the names of a lot of people. You've been working here for what, three or four days? But you could probably name many, many people because you've just been having conversations. You've just been walking and working and encouraging. And when you say things to them, like, that's amazing. Well, I say those things, but it doesn't mean.

Fresh voice. I've heard that all the time. So you just, we just want to inject you into what we're already doing. And hopefully you'll walk away, encouraged from what God's doing here. You'll have some relationships and hopefully God's, you know, changing your heart in the midst of the process.

Yeah. Yeah. So we don't want teams to be a burden to us because we got an important work to do here and we want it to be the best experience for them. So we also like limit the teams. It's like, we don't want you to bring any more than 12 people. It's too disruptive. Yeah.

And we don't want you to bring in less than three, cause it's just, it's not as good an experience for you. So three to 12 people, this is what it looks like. We also, we require you to cover your expenses and a little bit extra because who knows how things go here in the week. And so we want everybody to kind of carry their own weight and let's do this together.

And even if you don't like slashing grass, you guess what, you're gonna slash some grass. I slashed for almost two hours yesterday on the blisters to show for it. If they don't know what that is, it's like a machete that's kind of bent on the end and you just go and you are mowing the lawn or the weeds.

And man, they sharpen that thing. I'm like, if this nicks my shin, I'm not gonna have a shin anymore. I mean, one swipe and just like, just levels. Yeah, I feel like, yeah, it was amazing. Walking the security, see how security guards that walk the whole perimeter, and for an hour and a half, there I am with Scovia or Alex, you know, walking around.

And just the relational time that was, you know, Scovia loves just all the, she's taught me so much about the plants and all the different trees and she says, what's that? I'm like, I don't know what that is. What's this? I don't know. Like she would sit there and give me a lesson in it and then talk about where she grew up. And I think that dignity piece like this is my country. Yeah. And this is an I know this and you don't let me share this with you, which is the exact opposite of I'm here to come tell you what to do. So you almost inverted like, rather than come and do

something, a project, get things done, it's come and build relationships, get to know people while they are doing the work that they're gonna do next week when we're gone. Yeah, they've been doing it for years. They're gonna keep on doing it. I love that. I mean, honestly, oh yeah, we've been doing it for years. They're gonna keep on doing it. I love that. I mean, honestly, yeah, we've been on many short-term trips and it was the most intentional,

I think short-term trip I've ever been on. I've been on good ones too. There's been good ones. Some that just kind of you come and, all right, what do you wanna do? And others that they want you to paint the wall or whatever. And this was very well organized. So we're gonna get a chance to meet some of the people here.

How many staff do you have here on? Is it 50? 55. 55, okay, so we're gonna get a few different people we're gonna talk to. The first one we're gonna talk to is Eddie. Eddie, who has been our host, our driver, our host. He's hung out with us at the hotel we're staying at.

Give us, just set up who Eddie is, because he's just been just an absolute delight to get to know. Yeah, Eddie, he grew up in this community. So he's a little boy who grew up playing in all these trees and living in this, in our village. And he got a job, his first job here was the receptionist at our hospital. And he applied like everyone else we get, when we post a job, we get hospital. And he applied like everyone else we get when we when we post a job, we get sometimes hundreds of applications. And it's desperate times, you know, people really looking for work. And so he rose to the top. And he's such a people guy that

we knew that was about for him. So he started by sitting by the desk, and just serving and being available to do whatever and then slowly start adding respect, you know, a little bit here a little bit there, and now he's IT, he's over transportation, he's host for teams, got all his hand in lots of different areas. He's kind of one of those little catch-all positions. He's since got married, since he's become a staff person here, has a child, and really trying to do stuff differently than the typical cultural norms. I'm really trying to invest in his relationship

with his wife and view her as much more than just you take care of the kids and cook for me. But like he takes the things he's learning here, spiritually, he goes home and they sit and talk about that in the evening, like this is the scriptures we talked about, this is, which is just rare, rare. For a marriage to be kind of centered around. Yeah. And there's still,

there's still some cultural norms there that aren't, you know, what he wants them to be, but they're, they really want to make things different. I mean, he's the only shop in town that doesn't open on Sunday. We did a lot of teaching on Sabbath and, you know, figure out what that day is and they've've picked Sunday and so they close the shop. It's the only one. Like, why aren't you open?

Why aren't you open? Well, cause this is why we do this. And that's his wife normally works in the shop. So yeah, he's one of the few dads you'll see caring his kid. It's that idea like, oh, like I should be investing in her. Yeah, so he's a good guy. Really good guy.

All right, we're to get to know Eddie. What's up, man? How are you? Eddie has been our amazing host, swim partner. We went swimming yesterday in that freezing pool. Eddie, why don't you give us your, what's your full name? Eddie. My name is Chidjambu Edward,

but people prefer calling me Eddie and I also like it. You like Eddie? A little easier for us Mizungos to say Eddie. Everyone like in Cherish and in our community, they call me Eddie. So, yeah. So you've been at Cherish for how long now? I'm going to be making nine years in November. Okay. Yeah. So you've been at Cherish for how long now? I'm going to be making nine years in November.

Okay. Yeah. Tell us about when you first came to Cherish, you applied for a job, got the job. What was that, the initial few weeks, few months, first year, like what was that like for you working for Cherish? I joined Cherish when I was a young boy. I wrote my application to Cherish and then dropped it at a gate.

I found a lady called Stonia had not applied for like being a receptionist. My first job, I just put as a, any like any free space that you have, I'm available to come. And when they called me to come for an interview, I didn't have like qualifications or papers like in the bag. So the first day that I came, I saw a group of people, like 10 people that are waiting, big people, like a bit mature with hands or files, like papers that shows that qualify.

I was almost going back home because I like, what am I going to answer in this interview? See the people that have come, but I stayed and waited for my time and entered into the room. They asked me a few questions that I answered. I think it took me like 10 minutes to be out. But when I was going out of the gate, I was like, no, I cannot make it because these people that I saw are more like they have what it takes to have that job. But when I was going out of the gate, I was like, no, I cannot make it because

these people that I saw are more like they have what it takes to have that job. And I didn't know that I was being called for a receptionist. So when I came, they told me that, um, you wrote your application, but we are trying not to get a receptionist. So like, because I said any free space, so I'm happy to do it. But when I was going home, because my home is close to Cherish, I just walk. So like three minutes walk. When I reached the ghetto, I was like,

I shouldn't expect a call here. But surprisingly, like after four days I was called, that Adi come for the second interview. So I was really happy that I'm joining a family that I didn't know about, but I joined, I came in for my second interview and it was more like interacting, like asking questions that were not so difficult for me.

And then they told me that we have offered you a job. Yeah. Yeah. What did you feel? I felt so happy. So happy, you know, from school and, you know, coming to work. I didn't have like that experience. I was like, what am I going to be doing at the reception?

But I was happy that I got what I'll be doing. Yeah. Do you remember when he first got hired? I do. Yeah, I was a part of the interview process. But yeah. And, you know, cherish. We qualifications are important for some jobs, but character is obviously way more important. And yeah, Eddie was one of those guys is like, even this day one, you're like, yeah, we made it get higher on this one.

What did you see in Eddie? Like how would you? Highly relational, just a people guy and a servant, like'll do whatever you ask him to do whenever with a smile. Never, never without just all in and so he didn't his he's not that kind of guy. This is my job description so I'm gonna sit here behind his desk. Okay. So, he did that well but I need is there. He's in. Wow, that's great. So discipleship is a huge part of everything at Cherish,

whether it's the school, it's not just teaching kids, it's discipleship with the monk staff, with the students, the hospital, not just delivering babies, there's discipleship, everything is discipleship, the security is discipleship. How have you, Eddie, grown in Jesus over the last eight years? Like what's that process been like becoming a disciple of, of, of Jesus? What have you learned?

Um, when I just joined, I knew about going to church and then like every Sunday, and then come home, like that kind of normal, like usual things that you do. But when I came to church, I realized that there is something that I should do, like beyond like I used to do. Like I would claim that I follow Jesus, but I wasn't so much committed than the years that I've spent at church.

Because I've been able to meet people that are so really good and close to God. Those people that live exemplary life in Cherish, they have helped me to grow into like who Jesus wants me to be. And you know, looking at Pastor Brent, Uncle Sam, the people that lead us here. Uncle Sam?

Yes. Sam's an executive director. I haven't heard him called Uncle Sam yet, but that's. Yeah. That's very cultural. Someone older than you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. a male you call him Uncle. Okay, yeah.

Yeah, so I've been looking at those people and I'm like, I think I should be like these guys and they've helped me to grow. Like Pastor Brent is always challenging me with how he lives life. He's always the same with visitors on site, whether no visitors, he's like a true man of God. He portrays out that image of Jesus.

So if you have that chance, the opportunity of seeing like those people in your life, and you're so willing to do what it takes to be, that has really helped me to grow. And to help others. I also have like people that look at me like, we want to be like you, but I'm not taking that for granted because I know that there are people that have invested in me and like it's our culture here to live like Jesus. I'm not saying that we are perfect. We still struggle in areas, but at least if you look at my life

and then the people out of church, there is a big difference. Like, and I cannot tell how my life would be when I had not joined Cherish. Because I've learned a lot, but the most key part is me getting closer to, you know, with God and living like Jesus. So that helps me like keep going. And, you know, I already said to myself, whenever I come here, I've not come to to work. Yes there is a paycheck at the end of the month but I'm coming to South. This is my second home that I got when I'm a young man. Yeah I've heard that from almost everybody I talked to. They all talk about the environment, the community here. I was talking to Alex one of the security guards and he says

there's just something almost like in the air here that is just, it's just like refreshing, but also just like encouraging and challenging. Like the Christian community, the communal discipleship here is just, it pervades everything, it seems like. I'm curious, because I've learned this over the last few days. Like tell us about, what does a traditional African

like family marriage look like? And then how have you grown? Because I've seen, Brent, you've talked about this and you've talked about this, that like you're doing things kind of differently than maybe a typical African family marriage might look. So what has that process been like? The process is really good. If I would say if you've allowed Jesus in your heart,

marriage gets to be not so easy, but at least there are those challenges that come. But a person that have accepted Christ with your heart, there are things that we do differently than other people that don't know Christ. And then the people that we choose to look at, I'm sorry that you've not had a chance of seeing Leah and Brent. I'm not saying that because he's here, but it's what I'll say when he's not around. But if you had a chance of seeing Brent and Leah,

you'd be like, ah, there's so many things that I need to pick from these two guys. So that they portray out that love. And I always tell Brenda, I'm always challenged, like seeing you working with Leah holding hands, like, it's such a good thing that I've not tried with my wife Dora. So yeah, so looking at Brent and Leah, they help us like, even if we have challenges, we know how to handle them. And then the constant meetings that we have, you can find like when I'm meeting Brent talking about like marriage, non-cherish, like sometimes we talk about

work, but he invests more time in me being in good terms with Dora, like that openness that if something happens and you come and you know, how do you go by this? And so, um, people out of cherish, I'll say they struggle much. And you might look at them like going into divorce because, um, um, they don't have those people in their life that they look at. And because, um, they just claim that they know Jesus, but they don't want to be like him. So it is sometimes hard. Yeah. So what are some things you do with Dora that's different than, say, your neighbor and his wife?

Like for me, we always, I have time to meet with Dora. Yes, I spend much time with her, but we have specific days that we are meeting. Like meeting, she brings a chair. I bring my chair and then we talk. And most people want to do that, like that kind of meeting because they know I sleep with them and we live in the same house, but you can find there is no communication. So that helps us to, you know, to come up with those gaps that have come in our

lives and she's talking about something. Maybe I'm not doing well, or I'm talking about something that she's doing well. So like working together in the very, it's something that it's not so common. Like you find a man and woman, husband and wife, like working together. It's it's not so common, but you can find us on foot, like working. And then let me say I have a meeting here and it is going to end late. I must call her that, you know what, I'm supposed to be home by six, but I'm going

to come at eight because I have a meeting. So when you do that, when you have people that are not of Cherish, they'll be like, ah, you're asking permission from your wife. Yeah. So those kinds of things help us like to be close to each other. And they look like you, if you call when someone says like, am I watching a movie? You have to ask for like, you're coming late

and you married that wife. So they're like, for me, I can't tell my wife that I'm going anywhere. So those things like, yeah. What would you say, one more question. What's the, what would you say is the number one main thing that you've learned about Jesus from being at Cherish? So I mean, you said you were a Christian before coming here, right?

Or at least you know, you confess Jesus. Yeah. Now I've been here almost, you know, eight and a half going on nine years. Now when you consider who Jesus is, like what really stands out from being at this church? What stand out for me is that Jesus or God speaks. I didn't know that. I used to know that if I want to maybe speak to God, I should go through my pastor.

I should go through my church leader. Like I didn't have that connection with God that I have. Like I thought me, I have no authority to speak to God. But Chewush has helped me to know that, you know, you have the pastor is the same like you, the things that he does, you can also like, he doesn't need to be him to speak to God on my behalf. And God will always speak to me.

So that has helped me to know that Jesus and God, they will speak to me and always listen to me. So that has helped me to know that Jesus and God, they will speak to me and always listen to their voice. I don't need anyone between me and God that I should go through. Yeah. So tonight is our final day, our final day at church. What's going to happen tonight? There's a big celebration, big party tonight? Yeah. So today we have a culture dance. Today we have a culture dance. Culture dance. Yeah, we have our staff that will be, we call it presenting. We have from north, east, and then central.

Okay. So they'll be dancing in the attires of the culture attire. So it will be exciting. And including the American team, we have our own culture dance that we're going to try to pull off. We can't wait to see American dance. Yeah, I bet you can't. Yeah, so it'll be a great time seeing you dance

with Mr. Brent joining you. They put us in the back row, me and Brent. Yeah, back. Yeah, they tried to put us outside of the jungle, but yeah. We've been doing that with the team that we cherish. So at the final day, we organize that. And then besides the dancing, there is connection with, you know, with staff

and then we'll do pork together. Yeah. Yeah. So it's exciting. Yeah. I'm excited about the pork. Yeah. Fresh pork. Well, thank you for all of your hospitality, hanging out.

I love that you hang out with us every night. When we go back to our hotel, you come with us, have dinner, you're there in the morning to pick us up. And like just the conversations we've had, it's been, this whole experience has been such a blessing because Eddie, you've been a special part of it. So thank you for welcoming us. Thank you too for, you know, leaving your homes and getting on the plane for so many hours

and coming to know what we do at church. It makes us happy that we are expanding the kingdom of God. So thank you so much for your time. And it's been good having you with your family and then the two friends of yours. It's been a great time. Thank you. Yeah, awesome.

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on either the bestsellers or plant-based trial pack at moshlife.com forward slash theology. Thank you Mosh for sponsoring this episode. Hello Faith, how are you? Hello, fine, how are you? Good, I'm fine, how are you? Good, can you give us your full name? What's your full name? My name is Nama Kula, Faith Trinity.

Yes, that's it. Trinity, Faith Trinity. I like that name, that's a very biblical name. Faith too is awesome. What does that mean? What does your first name mean? Faith? No, your...

Namakula. Namakula. I don't like the name. It's basically a disease that's... it's like a skin disease. Oh really? Yeah. Interesting. Okay. But we don't call you Namakula anymore. Okay, we'll call you Faith.

How long have you been at Cherish Uganda? I would say 12 years. Something like that. Yeah, 12 years. Yeah. How long have you been at Cherish Uganda? I would say 12 years. Right? Something like that. Yeah, 12 years. And how did you come here? What was that like? I came when I think I was 10 to 12. Not sure really about my age, but I came little. I was in primary four. Okay.

I came little as in primary four. Okay. And yeah, it was with my brothers, currently with my brothers. Okay. And our neighbor was the one caring for us at the time. She brought me here. So you lived here? Or when you first-

She first moved into the homes, into the church, back when we were in an orphanage. Okay. Okay. Were you scared when you came? Yes, I was very scared because where I lived was the town, town place. And when they were bringing me here, I could only see forest. forest and I felt like I was going to be sacrificed. But then it was like sacrifice, sacrifice because there are trees everywhere and I could not, I could barely see a house. Then when we reached I saw all these kids come up to me, they were very happy. I have photos now. So my heart kind of calmed down. Yeah. Wait, I just get this straight. When you were coming up as a kid at the beginning,

you thought you were being sacrificed? I was going to be sacrificed. Child sacrifice is still a thing in this country. Oh my word. So you thought you were going to die? Yes. When it's forests, like it's one of the signs that you're going to such a place. And there are barely houses in the road from the road to Cherish. Wow. And then you saw kids, you're like, okay, maybe. Yeah, like, oh, okay.

Did you know this or did you find this out later, Brett? As far as the child sacrifice thing? Yeah, yeah. We knew this. In fact, when we moved here, we either tattooed or pierced our children to make all of them in pure sacrifices. They can't be tattooed or pierced.

Yeah, so a child sacrifice has to be a perfect, pure sacrifice. Wow. Yeah. We had to mar them somehow, someway. What was your experience like here as a child, like your first couple of years? Like, what was that like? I was at first, I was really shy. I could not associate with the kids more.

And though lively, I was used to this home. At home it was really hard with my brothers around. They would hit me like a lot. I came with wounds on my face. So I didn't know. You always had that head covering. Yes. They didn't want to show barely anything.

I could wear a hood and mostly was alone. But then with time, the kids started like making me feel at home and the moms and the aunties, yeah, in the home. So started playing too and enjoying life here and understanding that it's about love, not how I grew up. Do you remember when you became a Christian? understanding that it's about love, not how I grew up.

Do you remember when you became a Christian? Was it here at Cherish or were you a Christian before? We grew up in a Christian home, but really never understood the part. Okay. We could go to church, do the practice, then we come back, we were little, that is what we could see. And whenever we could not go to church,

it was like, oh, you're not Christian, you're not born again. So when I believe, I believed in God, I would say, when I was little, but then I got to know Him like three years back. And you, so now how long have you been a teacher for at the school? One year and a half.

And what do you teach? I teach the F1s, English and basically math. What is it for the audience that doesn't know like Americans or people outside of Africa? What is F1? What? What is F1? Oh? What is F1? Oh, F1 is foundations one.

Okay. We have three foundations, wait, four foundations, pre-foundations, then F1, F2, and then F3. So from the pre-foundations, they come to F1. So F1, F1 is the foundation. So I'm making, and we do math and English. Yes. What made you want to become a teacher?

Never wanted to be a teacher, but there was this opportunity that came and I loved kids. And I felt like God was telling me, this is also another like opportunity to serve kids. So I took it on and later started to love it. Okay and what's your favorite thing about being a teacher now? Seeing the change it's really magical. I refer to magical because I don't know how to explain,

but it is magic saying someone that it is your effort. Like you've made them know this thing. You've made them learn this word. They are changing, they are growing. And it's because of you. And that gives me like inside joy. That's the best part of all. That's great. So now you love kids? Yeah, I love kids. I want to be a midwife. Oh yeah? Yeah, I want to learn, to learn midwifery. Okay, awesome. Is that

something you have to go to school? More school? Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for sharing. And it's been, it's such a joy for our team to be able to experience the, the education here. I think our whole team has just been so impressed with how much you and all the teachers just love these kids. Like teaching can be a lot of hard work. It can be exhausting, right? But I mean, I'm just so impressed at how involved all the teachers are just with every single kid. And I've seen all the teachers get so joyful when kids are, you know, getting things right and learning.

And it's just been a wonderful experience. So thank you for hosting us. Yeah, and thanks for. This is like the only place they could find the love experience. So thank you for hosting us. Yeah. Thanks for this is like the only place they could find the love for the for the kids. So most times if you don't give it to them, parents they are more like, they really most of them don't care about them. So if if we can give it to them here, we'll try to do our best. Okay. Our kids don't like school breaks.

No. No. You know, in America, there was no school today, great. When our kids hear there's no school on Monday, they're not happy. Why is that, do you think? Do they love learning or is it the community or a teacher or everything?

I feel like it's everything. The food, well, they're fed as opposed to not. Okay. Yeah. Food outside is really hard for them. So if they get this food and they get to be listened to and they learn something, my kids love writing. So if they have that, they're really excited about it.

So when it's Friday, like, teach are we coming to school tomorrow? And like, remember Saturdays we don't come to school. And they're really sad about that. So just safe. Nobody's gonna harm me. I can just kind of let all that go and as soon as they walk back out that gate they gotta put on all that armor again and figure out how they're gonna get

through. Yeah. There was um there's one girl student who she has some burns on her face and it's um she must have fallen into yeah she must have fallen into a fire and it's affected her hands. I would imagine maybe in the community she might have a lot of shame because of it. But here, all the kids treat her so well. There's nothing wrong. Nothing wrong. Yeah. I look at her and she looks me in the eyes with a big smile.

They like the pet Mizungu. She does this. She's looking at me like this. And like, and she's so just full of joy. Was she like that when she first came or? Yes, she was like that. And the first week it was really a struggle to get her to go to school. I think she was insecure.

She kept crying. She wanted to, she has a sister in foundations too. So she just wanted to be with her sister. So it was war taking her back to class. I think it took like a whole week when she first came. But after the second week, I think she started being comfortable and joining up. Yeah, I love seeing the joy in her face. I love it, it's great.

Thank you so much Faith for sharing your story and many blessings on your ministry here at Cherish. Thank you. Thank you. My name is Tuijuchire Leonard. It's a Western name from Western Uganda. Okay. Yeah. But you go by Leo or Leonard?

Yeah. So most people spell my name wrongly. Leonard, they usually forget they're all in Leo. So I abbreviate it as Leo so that when I say it in full, people can spell it right. Okay. Yeah. That's great.

And so how long have you been at Cherish? so that when I say it in full, people can spell it right. Okay. Yeah. That's great. And so how long have you been at Cherish? I've been at Cherish for close to two years now. I started here as a volunteer on the 9th of January last year. I started as a volunteer straight out of school. I had not yet graduated. I also, I was looking for places to, you know,

put my skills out there, get used to the professional space. And with Cherish's hospitable environment, I made so many amazing people here. And when Cherish offered me a job, I was very glad to take it. That's great. So you work right now in the pharmacy department? Yeah, professionally, I'm a nurse, but I also help out in the pharmacy. I double as the

pharmacist. I also manage the store for the hospital. So yeah, basically that's what I do around church. Okay. And so the hospital started off for HIV AIDS patients, children specifically or even adults? Well initially, like with the history of Cherish, it started with wanting to care for children mostly because as we know, children's health is something that is overlooked by so many families here in Uganda. So when for children that are specifically suffering with HIV, there is a lot of stigma, a lot of ignorance that happens. And Cherish started by wanting to take care of those kids.

And the clinic specifically was to keep providing them with medication for their anti HIV treatment. So that is how it came up to, you know, continue to help out with even the older population. We further developed into, you know, taking care of other illnesses. The community came in as well. And now it's generally like a clinic you would come to.

We also started a service with maternity, but initially it was to take care of kids. And now it's more of a full-blown hospital for the community as well. OK. Help us understand a little bit more of HIV and AIDS. And is it called a disease? Is it called a condition?

Just even just the whole understanding HIV and how it affects a disease? Is it called a condition? Like just even just the whole understanding HIV and how it affects a person. So HIV and AIDS are two commonly interchangeably used words. Medically, it's acceptable for someone to say HIV and AIDS together. But understanding it fully is HIV is the virus that causes, that causes, that, that, that infests your body. Then AIDS is the aftermath of HIV. Like when you have a high viral load, like your body is filled with so much virus, then it progresses into

AIDS. So we interchangeably use both words to mean almost the same thing, but they are two different things. So how I would explain HIV is when you initially get infected by one virus, and then you know, it multiplies within the body, then you're the number of viruses built, then it increases your viral load. Then when your body has been weakened by this virus and it can no longer protect itself, then you progress into AIDS. AIDS is an acronym for Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome. So this syndrome is used to mean like your body can no longer fight off any other disease.

So your body is so weak, it can no longer fight off on its own. Any small illness can easily pull you into a life or death situation. So for most people, what we try to do is that if anyone has HIV, we try to make sure that they don't progress into AIDS, because AIDS is usually like terminal. By the time we pull you back from there, it's really difficult.

So we try to keep these people healthy by encouraging them to take their medicines, continue to provide their treatment, follow up on them, see how they are doing generally, so that we help them live a normal day-to-day life. So if someone starts taking medicine at AIDS, like if it's their first time, it's like progressed into AIDS and they start taking it, can they live a normal life with the medicine or is it almost like it's progressed too far into their body? There is a possibility for them to come back to healthy status. Okay.

Because what this medicine does is it starts to fight off the virus from multiplying in your body. So the less, the lesser it multiplies, the older viruses just keep dying off. And then, you know, like the body continues to heal itself. Then this person recovers back to healthy life and they can come back from the AIDS because we will do treatment for those other illnesses that come up. But then we will, when this person continuously takes their medicine consistently, it helps them to recover back to full health and they can live a very normal life. Okay. Yes. And tell us, if they, because you've mentioned consistency is so key what what's the what if they're not consistent with their medicine well like i said before uh the consistency bit is is is very crucial

because when when they start to take their medicine their body now starts to get used to to it like it's it's presence in the body gives it the condition of the viruses cannot multiply under those conditions. So when they are not consistent with their medicine, they have irregularities with how their body responds to, you know, how the virus responds. And that will lead it to, you know, increasing their viral load and that will also bring them down health-wise. So consistency in medication basically is to help them stay healthy, like to fight off the multiplication of the virus. Okay.

Yeah. And crucial to know is like, whatever treatment they are on, they, we have periods of time that we have to keep checking on them. Like we could give them treatment to take for three months or six months. And then after a year, we have to take off a blood sample and check how much of the virus is now in the blood. And for people who have been so consistent and so diligent in taking their medicine, there is a level they get to and you can't even trace it. So those are people that get to a point where they are,

they are, they are so, they are safe for, you know, we have those couples that have, you know, going through this journey, they have been consistent with their medication. They even have kids who are HIV free. So it's, basically the consistency helps you to come back to the normal life any other healthy person would have. And this is what we strive for here at church.

And do you feel like that's something that needs to be taught because, and maybe you can kind of say what the culture like believes about HIV and what, like a person that has it. And so do they not know this? Most people don't know that you can like live a normal life to the point where it's like it would be negative or your children could not have it.

where it's like it would be negative or your children could not have it? Well, when you look at the big picture, there's a lot of stigma around HIV here in Uganda. So many people here don't want to associate with HIV. There's those people that when they when people find out that they have HIV, most of them isolate from the general population and they get into depression, they don't want to associate with people because generally most of the time, society doesn't want to associate with these people. So it puts them in a state of mind

where they cannot live happily with every other person. Most of them, marriages break up, families break up and, you know, people get into living as single parents, kids get neglected by their parents, and it's a very difficult state to be in. So for a family to safely live together when they know their status,

which is also very important for most people. But from what we've seen is like so many people don't really have the knowledge about this. They don't care enough to know. And it's also more of like they don't pay close attention. It's only those that are affected that end up trying to pay attention to all of this. And it's wonderful that, you know, at Cherish, we have these meetings with these people, we call them in, we try to talk to them one on one.

Every time we have a client that comes in with us, we try to be involved. We talk to them. We share with them. They share with us their life story. We share hope with them. We try to change their mindset towards all of this so that they can continue to live life like any other normal person so that they have hope that tomorrow is a better day now that they have known what they need to know.

And with all the many stigmas that are happening, you know, families neglecting, people being neglected by their friends, by their own family, they feel like outcasts. So every time we, because we know this, that it happens in society, we try to address these issues. Because if you touch someone's skin that has HIV, you won't get it, it's not contagious by that. It has means within which it can spread. And we make it a point to educate the general public about these things.

We make it a point to always give them this information so that they know, so they could don't isolate these people and you know make them outcasts push them into depression And this helps everyone to live peacefully to live together because friends are supposed to help each other So when I know that my friend now has HIV I could always help remind them to take their medicine Push them into a healthy status and encourage them, continue to push hope into their lives so that tomorrow when their life is better, when they feel that they can go on with their life, it also brings strength back to me that I was able to impact this person in a beautiful way.

Wow. Well, thank you for explaining all of this. Because I think most, I mean, I didn't know so much of HIV before coming here. And just it's been so good to just know what it is and how it can be cared for. And so one last question is, what has been one of the biggest joys for you in your job here?

Well, number one, I have to say, coming into Cherish, I was fresh out of school. I didn't have any professional experience. So I came in as a volunteer just to learn, just to be part of the wheel, learn my roles. And one thing that Cherish added to my life was it helped me grow spiritually. And with time, this has also helped me to push beyond myself. I can now help other people understand the word, understand God's purpose in their lives. And for me to be able to do that with every client that gives me the opportunity to share with them,

I may not put it into words, but it is magical. Seeing people have that smile on their face and seeing them believe that, you know, there is greatness meant for their lives, whatever the condition is. I love the way the way Cherish has taught me how to spread the word because when I share when I get shared with when I get shared too I learn so much and being able to teach that and I also love to teach I love to be involved with people and being able to contribute

to these clients lives, it makes it, it gives me a lot of fulfillment. I used to, I used to tell my parents about it. At first they were afraid that you know you're working in a space with people who have HIV, but if you also get it, but you know, we are trained to safeguard our lives as well. But knowing that I can do this impact in this person's life, yesterday I was sharing with Josie, someone from your team, and I think I shared it with Aubrey as well. Like, you know, doing something for someone

who is never always, who want to be able to pay you back brings, brings phenomenal joy into your life. Uh, it's something from John Brennan that I read some few years when I was still back at school. And, uh, as I was learning how to, you know, how to give back, how to be impactful. And it says you never live life fully until you help someone who is never able to pay back. So Cherish giving me this opportunity is phenomenal. And I am so grateful to Cherish for that. Yeah. Wow. Well, thank you. Thanks for being here sharing with us and sharing a little bit about your story.

Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. a little bit about your story. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. Hello Daudi, how are you? I'm very fine, how about you? Why don't you give us your full name for us? My name is Chimba Daudi. Chimba Daudi? Yes, Chimba Daudi. How long have you been at Cherish Uganda? I'm now making seven years. Seven years? This month. Okay. I joined Cherish in 2017. 2017, okay. In June. In June, okay. What's that experience been like for you?

I think sometimes you can find yourself, that work is so hard, but sometimes is easy. So, it's not so bad. Okay. I always do, I do painting, like the doors, the windows. I do cleaning the gutters, fixing some of the things on the walls, like pictures, such a kind of things. I do cleaning tanks for the water. I do servicing the generator. Sometimes when we are down with the power, I do servicing the generator, cleaning trenches.

How about slashing? No, no slashing. No slashing. Why not? I did that before I joined the maintenance. So, yeah, so I sometimes I do searching, searching when I'm in the teamwork, so in a week we do teamwork as our operation teams. Okay.

So we combine together and we do slashing. Yeah. Sometimes. I did some slashing yesterday. How was it? It was good. I got blisters on my little bit. You didn't have that.

I had gloves too, but I got mizungu hands. Yeah. I used to slashing. I understand. Yeah. That was fun. So, you know, you're a Christian, born again Christian. Yeah. And, you know, if somebody else is doing all these maintenance jobs as a non, if a non-Christian,

they might just, they'll do the work for money or they don't like the work, whatever, but every time I look at you, you got a big smile. You just seem to be very happy doing the work you're doing. So why is that? What gives you the joy in the work that you do? Why do you do the work that you do? Maybe is a better question. The way I can answer that question, I think it's a grace from the Lord within me, within me, because I find myself when I'm just happy like I am, when I'm doing my things freely, I think it comes from from the Lord. I can't say that I have some experience in it, I do what, but I think that joy comes from the Lord.

That's all I can say about it. Yeah. Yeah, like what's your motivation? Like when you go out and you're painting right now, we pulled you off a job painting. Why are you painting? What's the motivation to do that? The first of all, what I put in my mind that this thing which I does at church,

it's it's it's a calling, a calling, a calling from God. So I I put in my mind that I'm not after money. I'm not after money. I'm not after what but it's it's like I'm doing my own things my own things if you're doing your own things you put all of that effort so that's why that's I can say yeah do you like having a American teams out working with you so much yeah. Yeah. Why? Why? Because they ask me such a question. They're good in asking this, this, what is this? How do you make this? How are you doing this when you're happy? So then they're good in asking questions.

First, we are not good in asking. ask, we are hiding all the things. Yeah, so I like to work with them. I was so annoyed when I was not here to work with any one of you guys. Yeah, so Eddie prepared for me someone. What's your favorite thing to do as part of your job? What's your favorite work? I think it's two things. There's building. Building? Building and painting.

Okay. That is the most. Are you an artist? Do you feel like you're like being an artist? No, no. No, no. No, no. No, no.

No, no. No, no. No, no. Yeah. Okay, no, no. No, no, no. No, no, no. No, no, no. Yeah. Yeah. Well, last question. What is, you've been here for several years. You're a Christian.

Everybody here has a relationship with Jesus. What have you learned most about your faith or Jesus from being here at Cherish? or Jesus from being here at Cherish? One thing, the most thing I have learned, it's we are not just me to be here, just to be a Cherish serving. I don't have to be just a follower of Jesus, but I have to do,

I have to do something which separates me to other follower of Christ. To do, to take a step because it's me, there's something which I was struggling with, forgiveness. So I was feeling so hard when someone hurts me So by the teachings which I already always getting in this place It's I think I can say that it opens my mind that if good good gives me It's it's me Even me I have to do it. So that's one of the things I think I picked to, if I'm a follower of Jesus, I have to do the things he did.

Yeah. Be a disciple. Yeah. So I have to walk the way he moved. That's good. That's one thing I've seen here at Cherish is everybody that works here is learning to be a disciple, not just be a Christian, but not just believing with your head, but like doing the things Jesus did.

Yes. Yeah. So it's so, so good. Cause for me, I always thought in my mind, I will, I will thinking if I'm a born again, exactly how good I'm a Christian, exactly I will just go in heaven. Yeah, but when we are in this journey, they were teaching us how to be a follower of Jesus, how the things you have to do to be a disciple.

Yeah. So it's helpful. Hmm. Well, thank you so much for sharing. And now, wait, wait, wait, we got to the Africa. You got to teach me your handshake. I've been learning the different handshakes. Ready?

Boom, boom, boom. And then what? Yeah. Again? Yeah. And again. Okay. But sometimes it's in again and again.

It's sometimes it's this, this, this, this, this, and then down. Okay, then you're done. Okay. First of all, I'm really glad that you were able to join us and to see what we do or how we love and be part of everything was really amazing. Seeing every one of you get to work in all the different departments, really excited and you really feel the joy to be part of this. My name is Maria Antonia, and I am a facilitator in the Foundations Program. My experience here has been amazing. It's been a time for me to give back what I got, because I've been a church since I was a young girl for probably

five years. Five years. Since I was five years and when I first walked into the gates of church, honestly like any other kid you've been used to some other environment so you're walking into this gate you know no one in this place and you're seeing there's this one, Luzongo, Larissa, she was called a retro person says the other different people like, Oh my God, how am I going to handle this environment? But one thing that kept me going on that filled my heart with so much hope is the love. I remember when I reached here, the first thing I got was a hug, a big hug from

Larissa and that kept me like, wow. And as time went on the love that I was shown as if I was in my own family. So I found family. I found home. I found comfort and so much hope around here. And since, since five years, church has groomed me into the lady I am today. And I'm really blessed to be part of that story and to be living that story because I need nothing. I mean five years literally I know nothing about life. But I was raised in an environment of knowing Jesus,

understanding who He is, loving, being loved. So as I was loved I feel like it's time for me to give back. It's time to share the love that I received back then to these children. And I joined January this year. So it's a six months anniversary. So it's been amazing. I remember coming here for the interviews. I was like, okay, this is not like school, school, Ugandan school, this is a program,

it's foundations program. How am I going to go on? How do I even teach? I've never done teaching in my life. How am I going to do this? Well, interviews go on. I made it and I was so happy. It was an opportunity I didn't see coming,

but well, when the Lord plans, you never know when it's coming. So when I started that trainings, it was amazing. Amazing seeing how these other facilitators, Faith, Charles, Ruth, doing these things. I remember working in two foundations too, and Ms. Ruth was teaching and she was teaching them phonograms. I was like, okay, what's that now? Like it sounded like music. Like, okay, so what is all this? But the joy to see these children learning

it, they could do it the right way and I could see the joy and the smile on Miss Ruth's face. I was like, wow. And that was before I started getting into work. That was still training. Now, time comes. I have to be on ground, start teaching. I'm like, how am I going to teach? I've never done this before.

I've never had time to sit with a child and have to get something into their brains, teach them something. But I'm filled with so much joy seeing that today in July, June, they learned so much from me. I'm able to impact in their lives, not just by what they learn in class or math or English, but their character, their audibility, their confidence is just amazing. It's actually seeing my little Maria in them now because like, but it was me, I was so young and all I could do is,

all I wanted was love and I received it. So I guess it's just time for me to give it back to them and they reciprocate it, which is amazing. Yeah, so my experience has been magical. It's given me so much joy and it has helped me actually find my purpose in life. But then yes, I knew God, I knew he has, everyone is created with a purpose, but I wondered what is my purpose? Like what am I created to do? But as time has gone on, I realized that my purpose is to change people.

Basically, with what I say, with what I do, that is my purpose. And I've seen it every day and seeing the students smile, it's just amazing. That's so neat. Do you feel like you're able to really understand what the children need when they come in just because that was you? Like you can you like like even just knowing how to talk with them how to get like what kind of patience they need or all the things that they need do you feel like it's it's just so it's probably so much easier for you to be able to know how to be to them because that was once you?

I would say it's been easy. Has it been? It's not been easy. Okay. Not at all because I didn't know there's children. They're all from different backgrounds and today they'll be sad, tomorrow they'll be happy and it was so hard to tell whether they are having a genuine smile today or are they really sad? Are they really happy? Have they had fun? Have they enjoyed my lessons? Do they feel comfortable and safe around me? But as time has gone on, I realize it's time. Everything in life requires time. Give it your time. And as time has gone on, now I can tell that she said she's fine, but she's not. She says she's sad because of this. And it's so much easier because now we have like a connection. I don't know, they're actually,

the girls in Foundations 3, they were one day talking and then they ran up to me and someone told me, hi, Miss Maria, you know, Lucky Sayidio, like her mother. I was like, oh my God. I was like, wow, it really made the best part of my day. Like someone seeing me more like a mother, a big sister, it has really, it's not because I've been here. Maybe yes, I've been there, but the connection and that required time and praying to God, what do I need to do? So it's just been time learning them as they learn me as we interact, giving them the

sense of security and safety and the sense of confidentiality that you know what it's okay I am here you can talk to me so that has just grown our friendship and relationship with them. Were you here with the turnover from so we know that from the very beginning it was an orphanage and then it turned into family care and just the process of all of that you were through all of that right? Yes. And then can you tell us a little bit about what that was like for you as a child coming in and just seeing that change and what you've, like what your thoughts are on that? I remember the first time I came here, there are only three, I think four homes,

Hope, Peace, Hope, Ebenezer, Nisi and Emmanuel, there were five. And it was so vacant. And we had a very small building and that was our school. And I've loved the fact that I've been there step by step seeing everything change, the school being demolished and putting some other buildings there,

seeing this building being set up, seeing this building here. And it's been, I know I'll say magical and so much like, wow, now we have something new and another excitement when you're here oh we have a new building oh we have a new space it's been amazing and back then as primary school so we were interacting with so many kids and I was like wow so it was more like I'm interacting with another world you know we were in here and it was just us. And then when I started primary and we are interacting with other kids since nursery,

with other kids from the community, I experienced a different life. I realized that maybe it's life isn't just here at church. There are other people that are going through something else outside there. Maybe they're struggling somewhere else. You hear someone didn't have lunch, you're like, wow, so that really happens. So it's been a genuine process. Then we thought, okay, so we are about to finish primary seven.

What's up with high school? And we could hear dreams and Larissa, Pastor Brent speaking of, we are going to have high school. Like, wow, we're excited, high school, but where? I have high school like wow we excited high school but where I remember our first high school was in Nalu Gala and it was this a simple room simple house and but it was exciting because it was filled with so much joy and our hearts were filled with hope of we are going to have another school we're going to have a bigger high school this is not it no no you're having something big and there we have high school right there. They're like, Oh my God, the transformation has like,

so this dream I've been living and these thoughts have now come to reality. And then I realized that in life you have to have your dreams, but as you have the dreams, pray about them and he will make be, if it is his will. And seeing high school as like, all right, this is amazing. So we have high school, then university studying, then COVID came up, that was in 2019, 2020. And we broke off, 2020 March, I think.

So we had to go out in the world and we wait for COVID. But we were hoping that it would be something short and we could go back to school but well it didn't and well I had my senior four somewhere else and it was a different life. It was a different experience because here in high school I knew these people. I knew most of them by name but going out there and you're probably going to sit in a class that has more like 300 children. You know no one. No one knows who you are. No one knows your status. No one knows what you do. I was, how am I going to handle this? Will I survive? And they're going to die of emotional something because I have no friends here.

So I joined and that was something different. Then we had the computer lessons. That wasn't part of that. I was still being my senior for, and then I hear there's foundations programs, like, okay, now what is the foundations program?? By the day, I was called back for an interview. I was like, oh my God, I had never in my life thought of that. Maybe someday, maybe, but I had never thought that I'd be called here to walk back here and serve children. So right from the time I came seeing everything change and something better coming up, different

people joining and so my joy feeling around here has been amazing. So much filled with hope and has helped me grow my faith more in God. Seeing all this happen, then I'm like, wow, so God really is alive. He really does work and it's been amazing. It's been great lessons for me throughout. That's great. One last question. And maybe Brenton, you can both answer this and maybe you have different things, but what would you say sets this school apart from any other school that is out in the community? Love, love and the sense of security and the feeling that someone is there.

They're not just your teacher, they're not just Miss Maria or Uncle Charles or Uncle Adrian, but they're more like a father, more like a brother and a friend. When you go out there, when I went out there to do my singing for, I didn't get that. And I didn't. So I was like, so this is the difference. So here it's family. It's like, it's not say it's like home. It is home for them. My friends say when you, when you tell them,

you know, coming tomorrow, they'll be so sad because they're missing a great part. Their care, their love, their smiles around and the sense of, I am here for you. We are going through this together and the joy of learning something different every day. When you go out in the schools outside, that doesn't happen. No teacher has time to sit around and be like, hey, how are you doing? How are you feeling? Everything going good? No, all they do is you're going to learn this

and this and this, then they work out. You wait for lunch, you don't have even a good meal, you work out. So it's more of come do the school thing and leave. But here, it's more than just a school thing. It's God, it's a love, it's joy, hope, and so much happiness put together. So that is the difference. The fact that they get to learn about God, they're surrounded with love, they get to do exciting things, things that make them believe that I want to be this.

Today I asked one of my children in F1, I was processing, I asked her, what do you want to do when you grow up? She tells me I want to be a mother. I was like, that's my girl. When I was young, I wanted to be a mother and you'll be a mother. And then the other one told me I want to be a pilot. And every day he tells me the same thing. Miss Maria, I want to be a pilot. And that gives me so much that their brains are young, but they have hope and they have dreams.

And the fact that we are around, we help them grow that joy and their dreams, and we make them believe that it will come to reality. So just that makes this place something different from the rest. Yeah. And along with that love, like that is key. That is the most important thing, is this idea of like, how do we now make the best, highest quality education we can in the midst of that? And we've kind of gone on this idea of really focusing on neurodevelopment and processing and how do we just rewire their brains to work as God intended them to be?

And so, yeah, people like Marie are teaching them math and reading, writing, you know, these really important skills and discipling them through the process at the same time, really setting them up to be able to live life beyond this place and be those kind of just progressive thinkers and problem solvers and really be able to sort out the things they're gonna face. And so we've, we've ended up, we've hired two consultants from the states, one, a neurodevelopment specialist, and then Dr. Jan, yeah,

and then Stephanie, a reading specialist. And they have helped along with Lee and my wife, write and develop this curriculum that is really starting to solve some key issues that aren't being solved at schools anyway that we know. So it's exciting to be not only a place where kids are feeling safe and secure and full of love, but also kind of taking some new ground educationally

at the same time. Well, thank you. Thank you for what you do. Thank you for giving your life to these children. It's so obvious that you are pouring, you and the rest of the staff just pour into these kids that's like given to you by the Lord. Because here these kids, you know, some of them have HIV, some of them have physical disabilities,

some of them have just really hard lives. But when they come in here, it's so obvious it was. We've just been sitting with them in the classroom that they hold their head up high. They are proud. They're just happy. They are just laughing. And so it's like you can just tell that they have that safety and love that is here. That's only what we have through Jesus and through the love that we have for Jesus

that we can give out to these children. And so thank you for, you are like, you are so investing in the kingdom in such a huge way because all these kids are gonna go out into their marriages, their communities, whatever they're gonna be doing after what God's called them to do. And you are giving them such a good foundation

of what I think is just so pleasing and honoring to the Lord. So it's been such a joy for us to see that. And it's very obvious that they get a lot of love here. And so thank you for what you do. Thank you for sharing your story and being here with us. I'm Dungutsu Joanne. At Cherish I'm here as a counselor. So as a counselor, what kind of counseling do you specialize in here at Cherish? What I specialize in is clinical psychology, which means my job's not only for HIV people,

but it's for all other diseases, any other challenges. So like some disorders, depression, schizophrenia, but when I reached here, I found it is more of HIV. Okay. Yeah. So, yeah, so you deal, so if somebody comes in and they are suspected they might have HIV,

is that why would they would come in here and get tested? Like they think they might have it or? Sorry? When someone comes in to get tested, is it because they think they might have HIV and so they come in and want to make sure. Okay, some people whom I normally meet, they are those ones, maybe they are in a relationship, they found out that their partner is not faithful, maybe he's cheating on him or her. So they are scared and they enter in to know their status because they have found rumors

that their husbands are cheating. Or also if it's not rumors, they are those ones like, for instance, yesterday, there is a lady who came and he found, because he was cleaning the house and he found medicine there, the arabes, and he didn't know that the husband is taking medicine. So he came in, he came in fear, wanting to know, should it be that maybe also me, I have HIV.

Yeah. And also there are those ones who are intended to marry. They come because it's one of the requirements here in our churches that if people want to get married, they should present whether they have tested for HIV, if they know their status. So to get married in a church, they have to go get tested first for HIV. Yeah, it's one of the requirements in the church. So someone might come to the hospital, they get tested, and the results might, oh wait, first of all, so when they come get tested, do you talk with them before they find out

whether they're positive or not? Yeah, yeah. What does that look like? How do you, what do you talk to them about as they're waiting to hear whether they have HIV or not? Okay, when the clients came in, I first will come to them to feel comfortable. I talk about them, then I ask them what could have brought them here.

So they tell me I've come to test for HIV. So we normally have a form we fill, but before filling the form, I first ask them what do they know about HIV, because I would want really to know what pushed them to come. So there is what we call a pre-test and post-test counseling. So pre-test counseling, it's to prepare them to go for test. Then post, it's when you are preparing them to receive the results. So we go through the forms after I ask them, like for instance, the results will come,

we go through negative because when client tested, we have positive and negative and inconclusive. So you have to take them through all of those because we don't know how the results will be. So I prepare them to receive whether negative or positive. So after filling the sign, I take them to the lab. Then after the lab finishes doing what they are supposed to do, they bring back the they are supposed to do, they bring back the form. Then from there, I first ask them, so the results have come.

You remind me what we talked about, then she will take me through. Are you ready to receive the results? Yes. When they are positive, I give them the results. Then I will first see how they are reacting. Of course, there are those ones who are in shock. They are those ones like they are those ones who come when

they already know. Like maybe they have been taking medicine from Campara, but they have shifted here. So for those ones, they already know. So those ones who are just getting to know, we first talk about it. There are some of them who will cry, who will say, what am I going to do? I'm finished, what? So then that's when I take them through

that being a positivity doesn't mean the world has ended. Then I ask them if it's okay with them to pray together. So we pray, I share with them the word after I asked them whether they are willing to start medication immediately. Because they are those ones who will say, ah, I can't believe it. I can't be positive. Let me fast. Maybe your machines are not right.

So they will say, I will always give them a chance that it's okay. You can get a test from other facilities. If you found that they are positive, you come back. So they are those ones who will say, let me first try to other hospitals. Then others are willing to start. What are some of the incorrect views about HIV that some of the patients have that you have to correct? Okay. Some of them, like those ones who are having children

who are positive, they think that those children who are positive, if they share with those ones who are negative, like if they share the towel or if they use the same basin that maybe they will infect the other one. So and the others they think that when they are positive, they can't get, they can't give birth to children who are negative. So those are the things I take them through and others think that they can't get married. Yeah.

Okay, yeah. How do you feel when somebody hears that they are positive and they just start, they feel like their life is ended, you know, or they just, they're crying, they're just distraught. Is that, is that hard for you to see that? It's hard. It's hard because especially when I've just joined, when I just joined, I would feel these

people is down and bringing them back. But before joining here, as I told you that I did the counseling, we first, before graduating, they first, we first, we are supposed to first have a counselor, we suppose also to counsel you so that you don't take your emotions to other people. So and getting having knowledge that HIV, you can live with HIV and you achieve all your goals. I tell them with confidence that you will make it. You will achieve your goals. And through the conversation, I see them that they are strong and able to start. And then you pray with, you ask if you can pray with them at the end.

Yes, and they feel good when we pray with them. They go appreciating. We pray with them. I read with them the words. Then we initiate them into our care. And I have to do follow up. I have their phones. They come month, every month. Those ones whom we have not done the viral load to know the copies they have. When they start, when we start a client, we first tell them to come monthly. Then after six months, we do viral load to know whether the medicine has worked. After that, that's when we give them like three months. But within those months when she has started, we call them. We call them, how are you doing? Then the others will come that I'm not sleeping. So we take them through the sessions. I feel like you have a very difficult

job. What is your favorite thing about what you do? What gives you joy? Why do you keep doing this difficult and challenging job? Yeah, what gives me joy? It's when someone comes, when he or she is saying that their life has ended, that they can't make it. River and even the HIV, they are those ones maybe who are having the social issues at home.

They feel that the world has ended, but when I tell them that you can move on, and I feel the one who wanted to kill even themselves are strong now, I feel joy that at least I've contributed something in someone's life. Do some people say they want to kill themselves? Is that that? They want to kill themselves.

Oh, wow. There's someone like, there is a scenario, a client, we have a client who is positive. She gave birth to a child, then she went to test it somewhere. They gave her four series that the child is positive also. She came hearing saying at least let me die I can't see my child also being like me taking medication like that. We tried to comfort her and we did our test from here yet we found that

child is what is negative. Oh really? And she's so happy. Oh wow. Well thank you for the work that you do. I just think that it's one thing to treat patients with medication, but the whole psychology piece, the spiritual, the mental, what you provide I think is so important. So yeah, not easy. So thank you so much for what you do and thank is so important, so yet not easy. So thank you so much for what you do and thank you so much for sharing your story. Then there is another thing which has helped them. We call it peer-to-peer support.

Okay. Like for us, we shall talk, there's someone who told me, you are talking because you studied it. Do you know how hard to swallow medication every day? So there we got idea, we normally call, we categorize them into theory. We have those children from, from 13 years to 20. We normally have a peer to peer support. Those are children who are positive. They normally come and meet and share their story.

So when that one who is weak saying, will I make it like, uh, when someone is the, like 14 and he sees that is someone who started when she was younger. Now is it 20 will be encouraged. Then also we have the group of adult who normally come and share their stories. And we also have the one of caretakers because most of the children, they are not their biological parents who are staying with them, like their aunties or whatever. So we always call them to tell them how they can support those children. Uh, well, thank you so much so much Joan for sharing your story. Really appreciate it.

All right, Brent. That was a lot of fun hearing from the people on the crowd, all the different stories and everything. And I was impressed at how amazing they did on camera. We're asking are you nervous? Like, no. It's like they've done this before. So I hope, I mean, I hope that this time, you know,

hearing the stories, hearing the background and everything, I'm sure a lot of people listening are like, hopefully excited about what God's doing here, you know? So part of this is just, you know, to give, just to spread the information of what God's doing in one corner of one country in the world. So I hope that it was informative, but also we will love people that are like, what can I do? Can I do anything? I know a lot of Americans and people listening, watching, they're like, I want to do something, you

know, so what are some future projects needs that if somebody did want to give financially to cherish, what are some things that you would like the people to give to us? Yeah, there's always a ton of need. You know how it works your vision. This always outpaces the resources. Like God's always like, I want to do this thing next to the step in faith into those places and start moving forward and just kind of watch God pull people together.

And I think kind of the main thing that is we are launching this maternity, you know, we're six months in and that's starting, that thing is just booming. Um, we're already having to, we're ever grown out of our space, having to retrofit other buildings to make things work. And, um, it's just really been a neat opportunity. I think probably the probably the most tangible way that someone can be a part is, like our cost to have a baby is 107 bucks.

And I think I mentioned that earlier. Mom pays seven, chair subsidizes 100. And I think it'd be amazing if this community, your community just said, I wanna be a part of that. I mean, if somebody sends in a hundred bucks or even 50 bucks or 25 bucks and say, I'm a part of a woman in Uganda who's gonna be discipled,

whose baby's gonna be cared for from the second she finds out she's pregnant all the way through being immunized on the other side, and I get to be a part of that, like that would be pretty remarkable. So it's not just having the baby, it is a whole discipleship process. Discipleship, it's training,

it's we do nutrition training and personal finance training and parenting training and trauma-based parenting training and we do all these trainings and classes with her all the way through. So she's learning. We even deal with a lot of myths. There's like this crazy myth that if you look at your baby in the eyes when you breastfeed,

that your hair will fall out. So here's this amazing opportunity to bond with your baby, but mothers don't do it because of this crazy lie that they've heard that is deeply ingrained. So we start working through what is happening when you look at your baby in the eye and how does this create this bond and what's the purpose of bonding?

So we're walking through all that kind of stuff with these moms and our people, I mean, they're working hard and really passionate about it. And we've just realized it takes the whole body to make this happen. And it'd be super cool for other people to say, I want to be a part of that. And chances are very few people, if anybody's hopping on a plane to come out here. If you want to, we can talk about that. But how great that we have the opportunity just to take some of the hard-earned money that we have and start building the kingdom in that kind of tangible way.

And as Leo said, the number one way in which AIDS or HIV has passed on is through- Mother to child transmission. But then you do it in such a way. We do it the way that they won't. That's crazy. Yeah, so it's not even just there's a healthy delivery, but we are now changing the trajectory of that family

for generations because now that child will be born HIV negative, which is pretty remarkable. Yeah. Pretty remarkable. So 100 bucks, if you had like, say, I mean, I like to have goals, so if you had like a hundred people give a hundred bucks. Yeah, that's a hundred moms and a hundred healthy babies. Yeah.

And a hundred women discipled and trained and yeah, it's huge. Wow. Huge. So we're going to put all the links or a link or something you can click on if you do feel moved to give, if you can't give a hundred bucks, 25 bucks, 50 bucks, whatever, any bit would help out. But that's, I can't give a hundred bucks, 25 bucks, 50 bucks, whatever. Any bit would help out. But that's, I can testify from knowing you now, from knowing people that know you,

from talking to the workers and now being here, that this is money well spent. I said that as somebody who's very skeptical of the issues. I just, I don't, even people I kind of know from a distance, I'm like, do I know? No. Do I know where this money's going? So for a hundred bucks, I feel like one of those weird commercials. It's like But really that's a remarkable there for a hundred dollars this holistic discipleship of the mother and a kid born HIV free Yeah, that's amazing. So please do pray about it, consider it, all the information is below. Brent, thank you so much for your hospitality here. It's been an amazing week.

So yeah, appreciate it. That's been awesome. This show is part of the Converge Podcast Network. Greetings and God bless. This is Tyler Burns. And this is Dr. Jamar Tisby. And we want to invite you to check out our podcast, Pass the Mic, Dynamic Voices for a Diverse Church. Pass the Mic has been speaking directly to the core concerns of black Christians for

over a decade. On our show, we've got interviews from theologians, historians, actors, activists, and so much more. Not to mention heartfelt open dialogue on some of the heaviest issues facing the church in the United States. Be sure to subscribe to the show on iTunes, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. We'll see you there on the next Pass the Mic. Hi I'm Haven and as long as I can remember, I have had different curiosities and thoughts

and ideas that I like to explore, usually with a girlfriend over a matcha latte. But then when I had kids, I just didn't have the same time that I did before for the one-on-ones that I crave. So I started Haven the Podcast. It's a safe space for curiosity and conversation and we talk about everything from relationships to parenting to friendships to even your view of yourself and we don't have answers or solutions but I think the power is actually in the questions. So I love for you to join me, Haven the Podcast.