Theories of Everything with Curt Jaimungal - Jeremy Corbell on The Inside Story of Lazar's raid, Skin Walker, and UFOs

Starting point is 00:00:00 Yeah, man, one of the things that I'm kind of excited about is I talk a lot to the typical media that knows the very simplified version of what's been going on with UFO mystery, but I also talk a lot with people who are just way into UFOs. I appreciate that you're neither of those and we might have a different conversation. So yeah, anything you want to talk about that is of interest to you and your audience is fine with me recently i had the pleasure of speaking with jeremy corbell a documentary filmmaker who specializes in what he calls the extraordinary so ufos aliens and the like it might seem like a departure from the academic chaperone that you're used to from this channel, but keep in

Starting point is 00:00:45 mind that the goal has always been to give you in-depth analyses on topics that are abstract in such a way that you can't find it pretty much anywhere else, because I believe you're far smarter than other podcasts give you credit for, and that if you don't understand some terminology or some mathematical concept, it's just a Google search away. You can learn it if you want to put the time in. Alternatively, you can go to the subreddit, a new one, which is recently launched for this channel called r slash theories of everything, dedicated to expositing on theories of everything. This level of somewhat recondite detail is necessary

Starting point is 00:01:20 if we want to get to the bottom of the fundamental laws of physics rather than stay at the surface. Okay, so how does this all relate to Jeremy Korbel? detail is necessary if we want to get to the bottom of the fundamental laws of physics rather than stay at the surface. Okay, so how does this all relate to Jeremy Korbel? Recall that I'm of the opinion that a large breakthrough is necessary in physics, and I have a feeling it's going to come from the outside, though I can't prejudice myself as to where the signal or series of signals will come from. The ordinary physics community draws the line at consciousness. You know this. The ordinary member of the public draws the line at the supernatural or the paranormal. Now, I don't draw those lines. I find it dubious in pretty much each direction, whether consciousness is

Starting point is 00:01:54 fundamental or ontologically primitive, or whether aliens exist or not. I'm unconvinced in each direction. However, I'm still willing to explore it. If aliens do exist, then that means there's new physics. See, I don't see technological applications like some of the engineers. I happen to be theoretically trained, so I see, or at least I perceive potential new physics, and that excites me. Now I have some issues with the way

Starting point is 00:02:23 that gravity wave amplification is used because I don't see that as a coherent concept. I don't understand it unless I see the equations. It's ill-defined to me. I also don't like the use of the word dimension to speak about alternate realities because to me the word dimension is reserved for a degree of freedom. I also have a pet peeve of people saying space and time. There is no space and time. There is no space

Starting point is 00:02:45 and time. There's only space time, not even a hyphen. It's technically space time. It's a four-dimensional manifold. It's one object. There's no such thing as separate space. There's no such thing as separate time. Either way, if during the interview you see me somewhat subdued or quiet during those parts, it's because inside my head I'm making a Wu Yang dictionary-like substitution, and I didn't see the need to correct it in real time because it doesn't change much of the underlying meaning, and there's no sense slowing down the conversation for what will be perceived as pedantry. Jeremy Korbel is undaunted and has my respect and commendations. I'm lucky because this might be one of the most sobering and enlightening videos with him. Please support at patreon.com slash kurtjaimungle if you'd like to see more videos like this,

Starting point is 00:03:31 because right now I'm doing it pretty much pro bono and it takes quite a bit of time to do the preparation since the goal is to investigate with each guest at a more benthic level, deeper and more academic let's's say, than any other interview with them. Enjoy. I'm here with Jeremy Korbel. Thank you, Jeremy. I appreciate you coming on. Thanks for having me on, Kurt. You know, you and me are similar in that we're filmmakers. We're both one-man bands in that I write, direct, edit, produce, shoot my own films. How about yourself? Yeah, that's the only way I know how. I'd love to work with other people. I just haven't gotten there yet. So I do everything on my own.

Starting point is 00:04:17 Right. What's the thought process that you go through to select the topics for your films? to select the topics for your films? Yeah, well, I, you know, the premise for each film that I've put out, I've done a lot of investigations. I haven't made films on each investigation. The premise has always been, can I move the ball forward?

Starting point is 00:04:42 Can I bring something to light, show it in a way that hasn't been done before, that will alter the narrative, that will bring new information? And so that's kind of been my passion in one sense is that I would like to uplift the visual aesthetic on this topic that I love, which is UFOs and the mysterious and the unknown, but that I can also move the ball forward. So that's kind of been my two prong approach. I mean, I'm not a, I didn't know if I was a filmmaker. I'd never made films before. I got, I lucked out. I put one out on Netflix called Patient 17. It was my first film ever that I submitted and got picked up. But with all of my films, what you'll see is that I'm trying to humanize the individuals who I'm speaking with. There's no script in the standard sense. There are long form investigative documentaries where I embed myself in people's lives and their belief systems, their extraordinary beliefs. I'm not choosing sides and saying someone should believe this or someone should believe that. I always leave it open to the viewer and I show it just as it is.

Starting point is 00:05:49 This is what happened. This is what's going on. You need to decide for yourself reality. And so I'm not preaching to anybody in my films. The world is mysterious. I have more questions than answers. Yeah, have you always been interested in the paranormal? Yeah, I don't, you know, I'm kind of allergic to that word, because I don't know what normal is, you know, I, I, let's just use what I mean is what the general public would call paranormal.

Starting point is 00:06:17 Yeah, it's just that I'd like to kind of combat that idea that things are considered paranormal, like, like germs were considered at one time magical. And it's just because we didn't understand them. And so I think that we have a lot of catching up to do. These mysteries exist. These things occur. And putting your head in the sand is not going to do anything. So getting to understand the way that people engage what I call the phenomenon, which includes the paranormal, but is also related to UFOs. It's important that we understand that we might not understand it all yet. And so that's the kind of premise of my series, Extraordinary Beliefs and all the films is, you know, let's talk about these things. For people who are watching who are my

Starting point is 00:07:06 audience my usual audience it might seem like a departure this interview because i usually talk to professors of physics and so on yeah and the channel is called theories of everything so the goal is to explicate the current theories of everything as well as to generate my own and it's somewhat of a process because i'm taking input from the audience. There's some people with, let's say, outrageous theories that are considered to be non-rigorous. And I welcome them, unlike most people. And the reason is that I think that the innovation is going to come from the fringe rather than the center. And I could be wrong about that, but that's my intuition. So why am I interviewing Jeremy? Why am I interviewing you? One of the reasons is that what's held physics back for the past 40 years

Starting point is 00:07:53 is a paucity of data, so a lack of data. And one of the reasons for that is high energy physics is extremely expensive. When I look at someone like Bob Lazar, and Bob Lazar, I would think of him more as a, an extremely sophisticated engineer rather than a theoretical physicist. And I think that he considers himself to be an engineer, but I could be wrong. Either way, he looks at it as technology and many and many of the interviews with UFOs, they talk about technology, technology. Now, I see it from a theoretical physics standpoint. I don't see technology. I see new fundamental physics. And I'm curious. I'm so curious if any of this is true.

Starting point is 00:08:31 Well, there's breakthroughs for a potential theory of everything. For example, there's something called SO10, which is, and flipped SO10, which is a unification of the weak and electromagnetic and strong force, but it doesn't incorporate gravity. It's a pretty good theory but i heard lazar refer to the strong force as gravity number two something like that now that like i would i would love to explore but either way i think that you have some it might not be mathematical but you have some ideas as to what possible new technologies new physics exist and i just want to speculate like mad here. Yeah. The physics of it's amazing, but let's back way the fuck up for your audience.

Starting point is 00:09:11 People might not know. So let's start with this. So my name is Jeremy Corbell. I'm a documentary filmmaker. I make investigative documentaries. I recently released one that was a Netflix smash hit, went all around the world, hundreds of millions of views. I went on the Joe Rogan podcast three times with three different individuals that I brought with me that all relate to this topic of UFOs. know. Bob Lazar is the man, he's the reason why in the public consciousness, you know about Area 51 and flying saucers. Bob Lazar is the reason for that. He came forward in 1989, over 30 years ago, and talked about how our government, the United States government, was attempting to reverse engineer these extraterrestrial machines, machines from other worlds, and that he participated in that attempt to reverse engineer those spacecraft. People called him a fraud, a liar. They tried to dig into his personal life and decide that he's not telling us the truth about UFOs because

Starting point is 00:10:19 he ran a brothel or all this crazy shit. But bottom line is, after 30 plus years, brothel or, you know, all this crazy shit. But bottom line is after 30 plus years, Bob Lazar's story stands true. He did exactly what he said he did. Now, people don't need to believe that. There's a much bigger picture going on here. The big picture is this. Does our government, the United States government or world governments, do they have craft from other civilizations, advanced civilizations that are technologically more advanced and operate in the realm of physics that is beyond our understanding? That's the question. Bob Lazar has always said, I can't prove everything in my story, but over time you'll see it's true. And the big thing for Bob was that Bob is a scientist.

Starting point is 00:11:03 The big thing for Bob was that Bob is a scientist. So the big thing for Bob was the science and technology that's being hold back from humanity that are represented in these craft. Now, we couldn't replicate them. We couldn't reproduce them significantly in any way because the material science was the number one thing that held us back. But we did get an understanding how they operate, how they use gravity wave amplification to traverse space-time. All of this sounds like science fiction if I was talking to you five years ago. But in December of 2018,

Starting point is 00:11:37 there was the announcement that the United States government had a program called AATIP, the announcement that the United States government had a program called AATIP, Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program. This program was tasked with identifying and tracking and trying to observe the flight characteristics and patterns of what we call UFOs, non-terrestrial vehicles. So it has been admitted that the United States military is investigating the UFO problem and that they've been doing so actively. There was another program called OSAP, Advanced Aerospace Weapons Systems Application Program. This was the mother program that housed the AATIP program. New York Times came out and said, these programs are real. And not only that, but we have fighter pilots like Commander David Fravor, who came forward, who chased the UFO for the United States government. I was the person that was able to get him first on record, long form audio coming forward. Also first filmed interview coming forward.

Starting point is 00:12:40 I also got the guy, Chad Underwood. He is now Commander, Commander Chad Underwood. He's the guy that filmed the Tic Tac UFO, the now famous Tic Tac UFO. So that's kind of the brief history of what's been going on with Babasar and UFOs. But we're now at a place, we understand how they work. It is not against our physics, how they work. We have to reimagine what we don't understand about physics. It's gravity wave amplification. Okay. At times I'm going to slow you down or ask you to repeat, because I don't know too much about, this is, I have a brief foray into the UFO phenomenon. So when you say ATIP and OSAP and so on, I might get you to repeat them one for our audience, but two for me to write down, to ask you some more questions and to investigate later. I just learned about John Lear today. So I was just watching some of your,

Starting point is 00:13:29 I think it was episode one about John Lear. Yeah, I abandoned that project a while ago. I filmed with John for about eight years, seven or eight years. And he's the godfather of conspiracy. He's not the touchstone of truth that I go to about the UFO thing. He's wild.

Starting point is 00:13:44 But as an individual, I really liked him, you know, so I filmed with him for about seven or eight years. Right. John Lear mentioned that he saw some object on the moon. Do you recall what he's referring to? John Lear has told me a lot of things, you know, people living on the sun, that kind of thing. I would not take anything that John Lear says as a touchstone of truth for the UFO topic. He is as fringe as fringe gets. I didn't document him because I believed him. I documented him because he's a character. He's the son of William P. Lear, inventor of the Learjet and the 8-track stereo and Motorola company. he's an interesting guy. Bob Lazar stands aside. Bob Lazar

Starting point is 00:14:26 was an employee hired through EG&G to work at a sub base of Area 51 called Site 4, where he was tasked specifically with the power and propulsion of these non-terrestrial craft and trying to back engineer them. Who else do you find credible? There's Bob Lazar, John Lear, no, David Fravor. And then you mentioned the guy who actually took the video of the Tic Tac. Yeah. There's a lot of people in the UFO field, right? But there's individuals who are kind of keystones along the way. Why commander Fravor is so credible? Because

Starting point is 00:15:05 he's a trained observer. He's a fighter pilot with more hours than anybody that was out on that mission, right? And not only did he engage this tic-tac-shaped UFO that defied our known physics, its propulsion system was a reactionless system. Usually things push something out the back and they go forward. This had none of that. It was a gravitational system. You could tell by the acceleration, the lack of the sonic boom, the instantaneous control turns and speeds. So Commander Fravor is a trained observer who came forward both in briefings to Congress, private briefings to Congress, as well in intelligence reports, and then publicly once I was able to really bring him out. He is credible because of who he is. And then of course, there

Starting point is 00:15:50 were other witnesses. And that's what makes for a good UFO case. There are other trained witnesses, and we have footage of that one. It's one of the famous three videos that was released by the Pentagon showing the world public that UFOs exist, they're flying with impunity in our airspace, and they've been here a long time. So this is not- When you say impunity, you don't mean that they're exempt from punishment. They would try to punish them if they could. It's just that we can't do anything about it. We can't do a thing about them. If you look at the 1952 flyovers in Washington, DC., a very famous mass sighting that occurred on multiple weekends and all the newspapers came in. Sorry, what was that?

Starting point is 00:16:31 Do you mind repeating that? It's a 1952 flyover of Washington, D.C. It's a mass UFO sighting that was covered on multiple weekends. We scrambled jets, fighter planes, and they literally could not catch up with these objects, with these craft. So when I say flying with impunity, what I mean is that there is a technology that somebody has, an aerospace technology, and that we are incapable of defense or offense when we try to compete with the maneuverability of these craft.

Starting point is 00:17:07 This is something that has been occurring a long time. Additionally, there are incursions on military bases, documented incursions on nuclear bases, where these vehicles, these craft, have come in and have shut down our nuclear weapons. This happened at Maelstrom Air Force Base. There's a guy named Robert Salas, who is the man in the Minutemen bunkers. And he actually is a friend of mine. And we've gone through the case. It's now public. And this is something to know that not that these things are hostile, just that they are much more technologically advanced than anything that we have. you can get around. The evidence is so weighty for so long that if people don't know about it, they haven't been paying attention. What do you think is the reason for the visitation? Oh, I have no idea. No idea. I could theorize all day long, man.

Starting point is 00:18:32 Maybe they like our truffles. Well, here's one. Here's one reason why I used to not believe, and I'm not saying I do believe. It's just that I remain open and unconvinced. It's not a matter of belief. It's true whether you want to believe it or not. I mean, there's documented cases, more evidence for this than there is for most things on planet Earth. There's more incursions. There's more evidence of UFO presence than almost anything. There's so many cases over so much time with so many credible witnesses. Now we have film footage,

Starting point is 00:18:59 radar footage. It's not a matter of belief. So why do you think that they look somewhat like us, that they're a hominid, that they have two eyes, that they have two, you know, there's something called convergent evolution, but it's not as if all intelligent species must converge to be like us. So I'm curious, why do you think it is that they look similar to us? I don't mean to be coy, but I don't know that they do. And the reason is when you first start looking into UFOs, you get all these ideas. You're like, they must be from other planets. Why are they visiting here? That's like, you know, UFOs 101, the first thought you got, then you're like, oh, they've been represented to look kind of hominid, you know, whatever, bipedal creatures. The more you look

Starting point is 00:19:41 into this, the more you realize all of that is not supported with the evidence. It turns out we don't know if these craft are from other solar systems or if it's stranger than that. If it's a dimensional reality, if these things are popping in and out somehow into our dimension, we don't know. We are so far behind in understanding it. Certainly hard physical craft makes you think they're from other planets for sure. Could be, maybe they're looking at us like they would, um, livestock, like a commodity. Maybe they have some investment in the human species for some reason. And this is the, why they show or flex on the powers of our nuclear weapons, which they've done

Starting point is 00:20:25 a lot. Additionally, the other thing that you brought up- What do you mean when you say that? You mean that when we have done nuclear tests, the UFO sightings have increased? So there's a lot of information and evidence of the UFO phenomenon engaging our nuclear process. So everything from coming into very famous cases, like I mentioned before, Maelstrom Air Force Base. There is a UFO, a disc that came in and shot a beam of light down into the nuclear silo. And again, don't believe me, this is documented fact. This came out through FOIA. This came out through Information Acts. And it shut down our nuclear weapons. It was a display of power.

Starting point is 00:21:10 So why are they doing that? And they're not only doing it to us. There's also documented cases in Russia at the same time, at the height of the Cold War. So obviously there's some sort of message being sent where whoever's occupying these craft, whoever's piloting these craft, whether it be a physical being or an artificial intelligence, whatever's piloting these vehicles, they're showing us, hey, we can shut down your nukes at any time. So I would suggest everybody look into that. So, you know, just look at this guy and say, Oh, a crazy guy told me this, look into it. This is something that is verifiable fact. And if any, if, sorry, if any of you who are listening are somewhat

Starting point is 00:21:55 specialized in the UFO field, if you don't mind putting some of the sources because I can't get to them all, that'd be great. And then I can link them in the description. Okay. Continue. Yeah. And then I just want to touch upon what you said, because we're going through this, this zeitgeist of like what UFOs are. So people are like, oh, they're from other planets. I am unconvinced. The more I learn, I'm unconvinced. This is a phenomenon of just other people from other star systems coming here. It, the evidence does not suggest that when you really look at the totality of the evidence. It's not just flying saucers, shaped as saucers. We have all shapes and sizes of vehicles that

Starting point is 00:22:30 shouldn't be existing in our skies. Again, Commander Fravor chased a tic-tac-shaped UFO. There's a very famous case called the Phoenix Lights, and this is a mass sighting of a triangular shaped craft a mile wide. We don't have anything like that in our arsenal. And this is a mass sighting of a triangular shaped craft, like a mile wide. We don't have anything like that in our arsenal. And people that you speak with who actually saw it, I interviewed a doctor and a lawyer, husband and wife who saw it. And this thing came over, it touched mountain to mountain. So it was over a mile wide. And when it came over them, totally silent, it was like as if there was a bubble around them of silence, like all the crickets stopped everything. And they're looking at what would have been the bottom of this thing. And it looks like waving of glass, like they can see the stars through it. And there's a lot of

Starting point is 00:23:14 reasons, you know, that you can see different optics when you see these craft because of how they're powered, how they distort, how they navigate is through a propulsion system based on gravity. As we know, gravity distorts time and space. So you can get an optical illusion just looking up at these things. Back to the beings, because this is always exciting. People will say, well, they look like us. They're bipedal. No, that's not true. There are so many cases of the grays, right? That's what you're referring to, this popularization of the grey alien. And yeah, a lot of people have seen that. Betty and Barney Hill were the first abduction case to identify this type of being in the pop culture. However, there's been a lot of reports of different types of operators of these craft. They look very different than that. So I can't say for sure

Starting point is 00:24:06 that we're being visited by another planet. I can't say for sure that these things look a certain way. Again, these could be artificial cyborg intelligences that are just being controlled by a super intelligent AI. We don't know who's controlling and piloting these craft.

Starting point is 00:24:24 They could be drones. When you't know who's controlling and piloting these craft. It could be drones. When you say that it's not necessarily from outside of our solar system, then do you mean that it's us in the future? Or do you mean that it's, when you say another dimension, I'm unclear. So please speculate. I'm unclear. I don't even know what another dimension means. I'm not that smart. I just know that the evidence doesn't suggest that this is just people from Zeta Reticuli star system coming in and visiting us because they like our mushrooms. I mean, I don't know, but people have theorized that these are extra temporal beings by the nature of time travel itself, or by the nature of gravitational travel itself,

Starting point is 00:25:02 you do have distortions in time and space. So some people say they're extratemporal, they're us from the future. I have no idea. The evidence doesn't suggest that to me. But the more exotic theories is this idea of extradimensionals, that there are these kind of perforations in our reality, in our dimension, and that beings and yet craft can come through. Now, I don't know the physics of it. I don't know if that's true. But I do know that the study the government did on a place called Skinwalker Ranch in Utah, where a lot of these phenomena seem to express themselves, they were doing so because they saw deployment. were doing so because they saw deployment. They saw tears, what appeared like tears in the sky and craft and beings come through. Now, whether you believe this or not, our government did study this ranch for many years. Our defense intelligence agency did. They thought it was a real threat.

Starting point is 00:26:01 So my point is, I don't know. The more I learn, the less I know about UFOs. Are they just beings from another planet? Or is it stranger, like interdimensionals, extratemporals? I don't know. Have you heard any great ideas as to why they flex in isolated situations? For example, why don't they now, why don't they come to a place like New York or Toronto and show themselves if they want to show their prowess? Why is it always in places where there's lack of footage or secrecy? Well, we no longer have lack of footage. Lack of high resolution footage, let's say. Okay, but that's another misnomer, you know, because the FLIR pod, the at FLIR pod footage, that's, it's not like an iPhone.

Starting point is 00:26:48 Those things are targeting systems. They're weapon systems. Those are multi-million dollar camera systems. They're just showing you a thermal, you know, signature because of the, they want to look for thermal signatures to see what, how these things are propelling. So if you had a normal camera, you'd get less information. how these things are propelling. So if you had a normal camera, you'd get less information. So the footage, albeit square, black and white and grainy, gives us more information about that vehicle, the Tic Tac UFO in 2004 off of the West Coast of California than if you had a normal

Starting point is 00:27:18 camera. But to your point, your point is, well, if they're here, why haven't they landed on the White House lawn? Why haven't they said, hey, we're here? And a lot of people, you know, over centuries have asked that question is like, you know, what are these things? And why aren't they presenting themselves? I would argue that they are, that they do so in a very delicate and intricate manner, that they do so to a variety of individuals throughout time. Obviously, if they wanted to show great power, if they wanted to show a great force, they could do so. They could shut down our nuclear weapons or turn them on. So there you go. Maybe there's a program in place. I would like to believe it's an educational program that over time we're being acclimated to this other reality.

Starting point is 00:28:11 I don't know that to be true. Maybe, as I said before, there's a reason, like a prime directive, if you're a fan of Star Trek or that kind of thing, or non-interference. Maybe they're just making sure we're not blowing ourselves up i don't know have you explored any connections between psychedelics and aliens personally yes i love some mushrooms um because you know there are different classes there's like the mushrooms and there's lsd then there's dmt which is like psychedelic 2.0 and that one apparently you can get to places where you can speak to other beings and other forms and i'm curious if i've never i mean they're i i'm interested i'm interested in you know the expansion

Starting point is 00:28:53 of consciousness and what exists within our consciousness is untapped so you know my psychedelic experiences have been beautiful i i never have communed with the aliens or anything i don't know if there's a direct connection a lot of people have this these great ideas that Experiences have been beautiful. I never have communed with the aliens or anything. I don't know if there's a direct connection. A lot of people have these great ideas that the planet was seeded from outer space on an asteroid by mushrooms to enhance Homo sapien and bring them up in intelligence. I mean, that's a Joe Rogan theory. I don't know. I just know that people do draw that connection in that the expanse of our consciousness seems a little bit less limited when you open these doors of perception through things like psychedelics, properly used, maybe ceremonially used and not frivolously used,

Starting point is 00:29:44 going to a rave or something. But I don't think they're the key. And I don't think they're the answer. And I think that if we were going to learn something from them about these visitors, we probably would have learned them thousands of years ago. Human beings have been doing psychedelics for thousands of years. So I wouldn't go jump and do a whole bunch of psychedelics to try to commune with the aliens. It's not going to work. Why do you think it is that the government released some of the videos, the Tic Tac video in particular? I know specifically why. They released reluctantly these videos because of public pressure, pressure on the inside and

Starting point is 00:30:18 pressure on the outside. There's a number of people who worked to get these videos released. It's not something that the Department of Defense and the intelligence agencies freely wanted to release. Why give the public information about something that, one, we don't know that much about, and two, we certainly cannot control? It needs to be perceived as a threat from a military perspective until we can identify the pilots, the purpose and intent. So it's not just like the government's like, oh, UFOs are real. Here you go. There's a lot of people that worked to get that information out. Remember, if you're a fighter

Starting point is 00:30:59 pilot and you chase one of these things and you go start talking about it, people are going to think you're not rap so tight, people are going to think you're not rap so tight and they're going to take away your wings is what they used to do. Stop you from flying. No fighter pilot wants that. So now they're trying to make it, there's actually new policies that have been promised to make it easier for people to report these near misses, they call them, like close encounters. And if we do that, then people won't be stigmatized as much and we'll get more data. So you think it's because perhaps they want more data and they just want to destigmatize it?

Starting point is 00:31:35 I don't know that that's, I think they have way better technology than the civilian world. I don't think they need us anymore for UFO data. I think that they can track something the size of a golf ball coming in from outer space. So I don't think they need more data. I think it was just public pressure. People know this stuff is real. They see it. Pilots see it.

Starting point is 00:31:59 Individuals see it. I mean, it's tracked on radar systems. It's hard to continuously cover it up. You know, I want to defend you for a bit because you take a lot of flack and I feel like much of it is undeserved. We're going to get into some of the criticisms of you. I'm curious as to what you think about them. But the way that I view it is there are very few people with the breadth of knowledge that

Starting point is 00:32:20 you have when it comes to this topic. And this topic is extremely prepossessing. It's frightening. It's also en rapturing. And I see like, maybe George Knapp can rival you. So George Knapp is like you on Benadryl. And you are like George Knapp on Ritalin. So I like George Knapp, at least from what I've seen of him. I don't. And I'm a fan of you. So I wanted to defend you. Guess what?

Starting point is 00:32:47 What have people said? Let me know. Tell me. Well, if you look at the comments in some of the Joe Rogan interviews, actually, I don't know specifically, but what do you see as some of the best criticisms of you? And what do you see as some of the worst? Which one do you not pay attention to? I've stopped paying attention to other people's perception of me a long time ago. You know, it's not important to my well-being.

Starting point is 00:33:09 It's not important to my spiritual evolution or personal evolution. I have friends that have completely different points of view than I do. But social media really allows people to be so anonymous that they speak with authority about something that they don't have authority on. So, you know, yeah, man, people, you know, they hate me for my beard. They hate me for my attitude. They hate me for talking. If I say a word, you know, I shouldn't be able to say that word. So I don't really care.

Starting point is 00:33:47 care. Sure, if I were to go in and read thousands of comments, you know, on the Joe Rogan podcast, you know, that would be the worst thing I could do in my life, because it's just like, people call you a shithead over and over, you might start believing it. But ultimately, I know who I am. And the truth is, I'm a curious individual, I want to get closer to the truth. I'm not afraid of speaking up and saying what I believe to be true or what I know or what I don't know. My personality is not one to say, I would get nothing done if I just sat back and let things come to me. I go for them. I try to dig in and find out the truth on things. And for some people that's off putting. So yeah, I get love letters, you know, and then some that are not so love letters. And I think the ones that are very vocal are the ones that, you know, try to diminish me or, you know, say

Starting point is 00:34:37 that I'm somehow a problem. All I'm doing is making films. I can't believe people threat, you know, give death threats for making films. Whoever watches a film, finds out the guy that made the film and threatens to kill him. I mean, that's crazy. It's complimentary in some sense. Yeah. I don't consider that a compliment. I consider that like a mental disorder. I don't know. People are very passionate about the UFO topic. And I think it strikes a lot of nerves. And I think that you see that polarization in social media comments. So what you're bringing up is a lot of people talk shit about me. That's what you're bringing up. And fact, that is true. I think a disproportionate amount of people like to talk shit about

Starting point is 00:35:24 my appearances or what I talk about or when I make films or stuff like that. I don't let that affect my work. If something is good, if it's like a constructive criticism, I guess they say, I'll better myself from it. Right. And most people call themselves skeptics are more in the business of tearing down rather than building up. So it's not much constructive. Oh, no. Yes.

Starting point is 00:35:48 Skeptics are like debunkers, people that just are trying to prove something without looking at all the evidence. I'm hands off. You can't help someone like that. You can't help them. It's a mental sickness. It's a mental gymnastics. Well, to defend you and to defend debunkers, there is a place for them

Starting point is 00:36:06 because you need to know your harshest critiques in order to strengthen your own theory. But then at the same time, I'm also a fan of, there's something called the Mayudic method. It's a Socratic method of eliciting ideas. And I don't see them as engaging in that. They may say that what we're doing is trying to get to the truth, but the truth is also in part a creative process and not just a purely destructive one. Yeah. And there's a difference between somebody who's skeptical because believe it or not, I am extremely skeptical. I have to deal with so much bullshit, so many lies in the UFO field that I've honed myself to have a bullshit meter. I mean, I am as skeptical as they come, but I'm not a debunker.

Starting point is 00:36:45 You know, debunkers are people that try to just say what Commander Fravor saw was a reflection inside the hood of his airplane. And, you know, forget the radar data, forget the other pilots that saw it, forget the internal investigations through the Defense Intelligence Agency. None of that matters. He saw a reflection inside his cockpit. That's ridiculous. These are ridiculous people saying ridiculous things to try to presuppose their initial assertion. I'm curious about how you structure your day. What time do you wake up? And how long do you work for? And do you have to work in solid blocks? How do you get inspired? I don't advise anybody to take my advice

Starting point is 00:37:33 on how to structure your life. See, I don't think I've got the model life. Forget about advice. I'm just curious as to how you do it. Yeah, okay. Well, I was a mixed martial athlete my whole life. So starting at nine years old, up until 2004 is when I officially stopped training. I was a very dedicated physical individual. So from training to meditation, to diet, very strict. I trained probably eight hours a day.

Starting point is 00:38:10 So coming from that place, I had a life-changing experience with illness. And then I started on a path of art and a path of film. And since that time, my daily habits have fluctuated. But the thing that remains kind of consistent is I don't sleep very much. I've always been one of those people that just work creatively best at night. I go to bed when the sun comes up or whenever I feel like it. And I sleep as long as I want. But I, you know, I don't sleep a lot. You know, average is like five to seven hours a night. I eat once a day. That's another thing that has always been, you know, kind of for me is I don't, I eat when I'm hungry. I'm hungry once a day. I don't know. I like beer more than water. Do you meditate still?

Starting point is 00:39:07 Not in the same way. No, my life has changed a lot from that physical discipline. I will say, though, that all those years of intensive training, both physical and then mental with meditation, I can kind of be doing anything. And I feel I'm in that meditative state. So if I have to clean my room, or do the dishes, you know, that's when I take that silence, you know, what kind of meditation was it mindfulness transcendental? Well, it's movement meditation, it all started initially with with jujitsu. And then I developed a form of yoga that was handed to me for martial arts, for martial athletics. So it was a form of yoga called warrior yoga. And it basically trained me and then my students. And I opened up schools all

Starting point is 00:39:56 around the US and actually outside of the US to use a movement meditation that incorporates breath and very strenuous exercise that work with the fine twitch muscles. And so I did that for probably 20 years. And then I did seated meditation. I traveled all around the world looking for people to learn from, from martial arts to meditation, to healers, to seekers, to, you know, I've been all around the world. This is before your foray into filmmaking or this is afterward. Yeah. It's a joke. I'm a filmmaker. Like I had no idea that I would ever become a filmmaker. I was a mixed martial athlete. That's it. That's all done.

Starting point is 00:40:36 And you know, then I, I got an illness and it transformed me. I was not able to, to be physical in the same way. It's called valley fever. And, you know, a good year of my life, I could barely walk. So it just changed my trajectory and I fell into filmmaking. And then I realized that I could do it, that I could do it well. How is it that you get the funding to do the films? It's so funny, man.

Starting point is 00:41:03 It's all myself. What does it cost? I have to buy a couple cameras and I have to travel places to talk with cool people. I mean, it's all my own personal, there's no big budget. I don't have a big company. It's me, a couple of cameras and, and, you know, travel. Yeah. I mean, I, I also, I survive off of real estate. I manage properties. People don't know that because they'd never asked me, but yeah, this, you know, I, when I was much smarter in my martial arts days, I bought a couple of properties. So I manage those properties and that funds my, uh, you know, fuels my, my film funding. Razor blades are like diving boards.

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Starting point is 00:42:22 no subscriptions, no proprietary blades, and no planned obsolescence. It's also extremely affordable. The Henson razor works with the standard dual-edge blades that give you that old-school shave with the benefits of this new school tech. It's time to say no to subscriptions and yes to a razor that'll last you a lifetime. Visit hensonshaving.com slash everything. If you use that code, you'll get two years worth of blades for free. Just make sure to add them to the cart. Plus 100 free blades when you head to h-e-n-s-o-n-s-h-a-v-i-n-g.com slash everything and use the code everything. Okay, so pretty much you just need money to live and then you like doing filmmaking.

Starting point is 00:43:06 So you go out and film make, and then you can maybe sell some copies of the film, get some money that way. But either way, you're just self-funding because you're interested in it. Yeah. It was never a question. I didn't even know I was going to put movies out that the camera, it was like a, it was like a gag. You know, the camera was like my passport into people's lives. Right. I just wanted to learn from them. And I found out real quickly, you point a camera at them and they start talking. You know, they're telling you stuff they've never told their families before. So making a film was just me sharing my life experience, what I have learned, who I have met.

Starting point is 00:43:41 And I was very lucky in that aesthetically, you know, companies like Netflix were like, fuck, this is good. And they were like, we're going to put it out. So finally, I'm making money on my movies. Let's go through some of the creative process. What's going on on the board behind you? How do you structure your scenes? And is that helping you structure your scenes? Well, yeah, it's kind of like a free association wall in that, you know, I get my base ideas, like even the title of the film, I go through a bunch of different versions. And then, yeah, what I'll do is I'll structure the footage that I have, I think I do this probably the worst way possible, in that I edit all my footage. So usually people film for a few years and then they take portions of it

Starting point is 00:44:27 to piece together a film. What I do is I come home after filming and I edit every single scene in its full length to perfection. So when it comes time to putting together a narrative in a movie, I already have these perfectly edited long form scenes and I'll go in and grab a piece from there, put it, sew it in there. So I edit all my footage. I don't ever let something sit. How do you choose when to put some of those interludes or some of those recreations? Like for example, there was, this isn't a recreation, but you filmed, I think it was John Lear's kid with fake blood.

Starting point is 00:45:04 Oh yeah. There's you walking into the kid with fake blood. Oh yeah. As well as like there's you walking into the desert with a voice. So I'm just curious, do you see them as, okay, I have scene A and scene B and you need to connect them. What makes you create a scene that wasn't filmed in field? Right.

Starting point is 00:45:15 So really for me, it was when I was, let me use a concrete example. So the Bob Lazar film. So I've got a director's cut version. It's really long, right? And I'm like, okay, it needs to be about an hour and a half. How can I tell this 30-year story in an hour and a half with this huge movie that I've already cut? So really, it's about paring it down to be the most pointed, one of the most important parts. And I brought it down,

Starting point is 00:45:41 down, down. Then I got to a point where I was like, I need to put something in there to show the moment that I got notified about the FBI raid on Bob Lazar's business. So I'm free to film. I have my studio I can film in. So exactly like it happened to me that morning, you know, I brought the texts onto my phone and filmed at different angles in that pink intro to the film. It was to give people this cinematic feeling of what it was like when I actually picked up my phone and called George Knapp and Bob. I was like, what the fuck just happened? So I insert these parts to the movies based upon kind of what I feel is lacking.

Starting point is 00:46:25 But it's really easy, man. Pick up a camera. The world is out there. There's a lot to film. How long is this director's cut? Is it ever coming out? I don't know. I think I'll put it out in sections.

Starting point is 00:46:36 So the Bob Lazar, Area 51, and Flying Saucers, that's the name of the Netflix film. Imagine there's thousands of hours of footage with bob that i have surrounding him his life his entire family all the other investigations that i've done surrounding bob's story the movie is an hour and a half so what i've been doing is on my netflix or my um youtube channel i've been putting out extended bonus scenes or deleted scenes, I'm calling them. And so that's so that people get to see these longer interviews with Bob. Yeah, okay. Now just to get into some nitty gritty, I'm curious as a filmmaker, does that violate any of your contract with Netflix? How is it that you can reuse the same

Starting point is 00:47:17 footage or you don't? Oh, no, I'm a completely independent filmmaker. My contract with Netflix, I let them use the movie for a certain amount of time. See, I own everything. I own all my own content. I allowed them to use the hour and 30 movie to put on their platform, but I am the owner of all my own content. So that's how it works is I gave them the hour and 30 section. Cool. Let's get to this background one more time because I'm curious about it. Why don't you take me through a specific example? How is it that you make the connections? Make the connections to what?

Starting point is 00:47:54 You said that what you have is almost like somewhat of a madman approach where you put different pictures on the wall. Maybe you draw lines and you put together, I'm assuming either a theory or a theme, or you're trying to prove a certain point. Can you take me through an example of your creative process? Yeah, sure. Yeah. Well, the main thing really is, again, it's, I'm trying to uplift the visual aesthetic for UFO films, right? So I want people to be enticed by the look and the feel, kind of the playfulness of a film. I don't want it to be this dry, ancient aliens kind of, this happened on this day.

Starting point is 00:48:29 You know, with my films, I try to give a little bit of personal character to it. So that's why I had like Mickey Rourke, you know, the controversial Mickey Rourke, you know, narrate with like a mouthful of gravel in my film. You know, I can barely understand him. A lot of people say, that's the point, shithead. The point is to get people to listen and be enthralled by his strange voice. And he was talking poetically.

Starting point is 00:48:54 He wasn't just giving you factual things about the movie. I wrote him a script that's like super poetic and weird and psychedelic. So you're talking about my chalkboard wall. So wherever I've lived, I've done a coat of magnetized paint, and then I've done chalkboard paint and I get neodymium magnets so that they're very strong super magnets. And I can put up pictures and kind of use the wall as kind of like how the movie's playing out and how to structure scenes to some degree. Everything from music and the soundscaping that I've done, which is very intricate. If you listen to any of my- You do your own music?

Starting point is 00:49:34 Well, I work with a couple of musicians that give me the same beats in sections of tones, not like usually full songs. And then I weave all of those hundreds of sections into songs. There's a guy named Red, Blue, Black, Silver, who I worked with for both Hunt for the Skinwalker, which is my film on Hulu, and then the Babasar Air 51 and Flying Saucers. And he sometimes gives me larger songs, but he gives me a lot of just audio clips. So I soundscape the films over the months by using certain tones for certain people to create an emotion. So yeah, I guess the wall is kind of where I can take these investigations and say, I've talked to this person. They said this, this is the next person I have to call. They're going to connect me with them. It's like an active

Starting point is 00:50:24 board for me when I'm doing these investigations, because a lot of times they're happening during the filming. So same with the Bob Lazar thing. When I got the guy who did Bob Lazar security clearance to work at Area 51, at first he was going to go on camera with me. And then he basically decided not to go on camera with me because it was explosive what he had to say. He goes, I remember Bob. I did his security clearance. So all I could do in the film is report on that. Trust me or not, I talked to the guy.

Starting point is 00:50:56 His name is Mike Thigpen. And I got a hold of him. After 30 years, I was able to find him. You mentioned George Knapp. George Knapp is an investigative reporter out of Las Vegas, Nevada. He's the guy that broke the Area 51 story on Bob Lazar. You had mentioned him earlier in the interview. George Knapp has been a mentor to me. So George has helped me with my investigations. And I've done a couple of films with him. He's

Starting point is 00:51:20 featured in two of my three major films. Right. You used some of his footage in Skinwalker, correct? Absolutely. That was footage the world had never seen. He had been documenting Skinwalker Ranch for like 20 years. And no one wasn't allowed to put the footage out, but I was able to get it for that film. Yeah. Do you think aliens have communicated with our government explicitly? Yeah, I'm curious about that myself. I'm not sure. I think it's, look, it's step one time, man. Step one is the general public needs to get caught up. They need to get caught up with the fact that the UFO presence is real, that we are being visited on a regular basis by an intelligence

Starting point is 00:52:08 that are flying hard craft, that are far outpace our technology. And we think we know how they work. Our government thinks they know how it works. They can't replicate it. But as far as you know, there's no documents that say that the aliens have explicitly communicated with USA or Russia. There's nothing that I would concretely say, you know, a classified document that I would say that's probably real. I have obtained documents that say as much, but the authenticity of these documents will always be in question because you can't track the source. And the documents, are they implying some sort of collusion between the aliens and the

Starting point is 00:52:51 government or is it something else? Okay, so anybody that wades into the UFO world really, really needs to protect themselves from disinformation. There have been active programs of disinformation that have been admitted to by our government. As far as I know, there's Project Blue Book. Is that what you're referring to? No. No. Or is that different? Okay. So this is important. Project Blue Book, it ended in 1969, supposedly. It was the United States government study of UFOs. Now, what people don't know, or a lot of people don't know,

Starting point is 00:53:30 is that there were two UFO study programs before, Project Sign and Project Grudge. Sign as in sine wave or S-I-G-N? S-I-G-N, Sign. Project Sign and Project Grudge, And then there's Project Blue Book. And this is the one that's very famous that everybody knows about where the US government said,

Starting point is 00:53:51 the famous saying where J. Allen Hynek who ran Project Blue Book said that, you know, one of the UFOs was swamp gas. You ever hear that? Oh, it's probably swamp gas. It's a very famous like thing that people say to debunk UFOs. J. Allen Hynek, who ran Project Blue Book, later apologized for that because he knew the UFO topic

Starting point is 00:54:15 was real and he was mandated to, quote unquote, demystify the UFO topic to the public. So Project Blue Book was a sham. And now everybody knows that that there are cases that they can't describe, but their mandate was to try to calm the American public. And this was bad. Again, I'm sorry, I have to cut you off because I'm trying to understand this. So there's Project Blue Book. And what that was, was a disinformation campaign by the American government? government. And people involved in that process, like J. Allen Hynek, later revealed that their mandate was to suppress the information, was to minimize it, was to come up with prosaic explanations. And this is what that term swamp gas comes from. Now, our government, the United States government, also told us that our study of UFOs ended in 1969. We now know that to be a lie.

Starting point is 00:55:31 I told you about OSAP and I told you about AATIP. Those programs have now been acknowledged. So our government did not stop studying UFOs. Of course they didn't. They represent a technology that's far superior to what we have. We want that technology. Whoever gains the technology that is shown in these UFOs, they win. They win everything. It is a technology that cannot be competed with. It can be weaponized. If these things do travel using gravity wave amplification,

Starting point is 00:56:06 if that's true, then this can be weaponized. So in the history... Go ahead. No, I was going to make a joke. Go ahead. I like jokes. Speaking of weaponized, one of my first questions to you was, has your curiosity been weaponized? I asked the audience for a few questions. Someone said to ask him if his curiosity has been weaponized. I didn't get it until I watched a few interviews. Man, my curiosity has been radicalized.

Starting point is 00:56:33 Are you kidding me? What I've learned through all of this? Are you kidding me? Yeah, of course, man. So for your audience that doesn't know, I am accused, rightfully so, of saying weaponize your curiosity almost every time I talk. And I make a point of doing it. I think it's hilarious. I think I like

Starting point is 00:56:50 to see people get so upset about it. What does weaponization have anything to do with it? Look, your curiosity is your greatest weapon, man. It's what allows you to ask questions, right? If you don't ask questions, you're never going to even get close to the answer. So always make the joke, weaponize your curiosity. Yes, my motherfucking curiosity has been weaponized. I got a few IMDB credits here for you. Apparently you're still working on them. So there's extraordinary beliefs.

Starting point is 00:57:15 It says it's a TV series or filming, immaculate deception, filming, indelible filming, truth embargo filming, storm area 51 filming, and then post-production on looking up in Moonwalker. Is that true? Or are you just pretty much working on? Yeah, and then post-production on Looking Up and Moonwalker. Is that true? Or are you just pretty much working on some other projects? Yeah, and I think people are going to be really upset if they try to put me on a timeline. I'm one person.

Starting point is 00:57:33 Yeah, I'm filming on all of those. Some of them I think are probably finished filming. And depending on where I put my effort next, I'll come out with that film. For example, Immaculate Deception. I filmed, as I said, know, I'll come out with that film. For example, Immaculate Deception. I filmed, as I said, for seven or eight years with John Lear. That's that movie. I could make that movie right now. I could cut that movie. It's not the time for it. It's not the time for that movie. So all of those are projects of mine that are in the phase where they can start being edited, but I don't know what I'm coming out with next. I haven't chosen. How do you decide when the time is right to release a particular film?

Starting point is 00:58:14 Right. So for Hunt for the Skinwalker, which was my second big film, came out on Hulu, I knew it was time for that film to come out. Because if you watch the beginning of that film, we announce that there's about to be a paradigm shift about UFOs in the public. That is before the New York Times article came out identifying the UFO study programs. So because I had prior knowledge that the US government was going to announce through the New York Times that this was going to be announced, I knew that film had to be made because what people didn't know is that a lot of those programs specifically tied back to Skinwalker Ranch. Skinwalker Ranch had been a mystery before my film. Nobody had ever seen footage from inside of Skinwalker Ranch come out into the public domain for 25 years. Never happened until my film. So I knew it was... No, continue, please.

Starting point is 00:59:19 I knew it was time to release that film. I knew it was time for that film because I had pre-knowledge that these UFO cases were going to come out through the New York Times. Speaking as a filmmaker, how long did it take you to develop the relationship so that you can get inside knowledge? Because if you're just someone from the outside, even if you say, well, I'm making a documentary on topic X, you'll get a surface level clearance, let's say, and you don't have the connections. How long did it take you to build it? And what'd you do? What tactics? I have a charming personality. Can't you tell?

Starting point is 00:59:47 That's my best tactic. No, I'm not. Look, I'm not in the military. I don't have a security clearance. I've never signed an NDA for anything. I mean, you know, I'm lucky. I have a good mentor in George Knapp. He's certainly opened a lot of doors for me

Starting point is 01:00:03 with, you know, witnesses, I'd like to say, you know. And I think just over time, I've been persistent about it. I've been interested in UFOs before I started making movies. So I, look, I've been able to be led into the Annapolis Naval Academy and sit in on classes, you know, that have to do with aerospace. I've made great connections with individuals who would have access to these UFO-based programs within our government. And I've never burned anybody. I've never spoken out of school. So the people that have come forward to me, I've never burned them. So imagine what I'm showing you in my films and the information that I'm bringing forward, there's a lot more that I've never said because I would never burn somebody for giving me information. Has the government ever contacted you or

Starting point is 01:00:54 followed you or have you received any threats or strange occurrences like Lazar had his doors opened and his gun that was in his glove compartment put on his seat and so on? Yeah, no, I've only been assisted by individuals within government and agencies. The only strange thing that ever happened to me was that that raid on Bob Lazar right in the middle of my filming, they waited. We have the documents that show that they were watching, you know, in preparation for that raid while I was there in Michigan, filming Bob, but they waited till the cameras were gone. I mean, last thing they wanted somebody filming this raid. So that's the only images we have was Bob and his employee just snapped some photos during it. And that's where you see the 15 or so or more people. some photos during it. And that's where you see the 15 or so or more people. So I've never had any negative thing. People actually call me with tips all the time, whether they can go public or

Starting point is 01:01:53 not go public. People now come to me and that's interesting. So I think just over time, people have realized, and they've told me this, people call me after the Lazar film. They're like, I know Bob's telling the truth and here's my little one thing I can tell you, but I don't want anybody to know it came from me. And they contact you over phone, text, email, or in person or letter or what? It always begins with email or usually begins with email. So they text my editor, Katrina, and then she'll sort through there's, you know, hundreds of messages a day. A lot of them are from crazy people. And then, you know, she'll send me the ones that are, you know, seem promising. And then some people want to talk on signal or an encrypted app or proton mail. Okay. Let's get to this Bob Lazar raid,

Starting point is 01:02:40 because I was unclear about something when it was shown in the film. So let's say you were talking to Bob, some forested area, if I recall, I could be wrong either way, whatever you're talking to Bob, I remember seeing trees. So there's some trees. Is it away from his house or is it right in his backyard? Yeah, well, he, he, in Michigan, he had a large property and the scene you're talking about just for your audience. So Bob Lazar has always claimed that these craft are gravity driven, that there's a gravity wave amplification propulsion system in these saucers that he was able to work on or explore the power of propulsion in one of them. He also claimed that the craft was fueled by a super heavy element called Element 115, but a version of Element 115 that is stable, where its half-life is significantly long enough to have these properties. always claimed that. In the film, I was asking him specifically about that and about the claim that he got a piece of the stabilized 115 out of Los Alamos, actually. People thought it's site

Starting point is 01:03:56 four, area 51. It's not. He claimed he got a piece out of Los Alamos National Laboratory, where they were machining the Element 115 to send back to the test site. I see. But the people at Los Alamos didn't know what they were machining? Correct. It was just a contracted job? According to Bob, it was shipped under a codename LA-1000, and they would tell the machinist

Starting point is 01:04:20 that it was an exotic armor. A machinist is not going to sit there with spectroscopy and like figure out you know the composition it's okay cool i'm going to machine this precisely so they would bring it in and they they'd machine it in a very specific way that you can see kind of detailed on my youtube uh probably on my youtube site or a little bit in the film and uh bob did claim to to get at least one piece out from Los Alamos. And he's been very cagey about that. Although he did do an experiment, a cloud chamber test, and there were witnesses, and I've spoken with all of them. There are witnesses in the room with him at home. And I'll tell you this, Bob believed that he had a piece of element 115. His friends who were scientists, many of them

Starting point is 01:05:05 scientists, George Knapp saw the experiment as well. They believed that he had a very unique element that had properties that had yet to be seen. And this is before laser pointers, right? So they were doing a cloud chamber test to show how light bent because of the, I guess, gravity differential with the piece of 115. If you had a laser pointer back then, you could just shine a laser over it. And if it was real, it would have bent. But they didn't at that time. It weren't readily available. This was 1989. So they did a cloud chamber experiment in Bob's backyard. I mean, Bob's a smart guy. He built two particle accelerators, one in New Mexico and one in his bedroom in Las Vegas.

Starting point is 01:05:47 You know, he's a very technical guy and a really interesting scientist. And so that talk in my movie in the forest, you know, was, I don't know, 600 meters away from Bob's front door, right? It's a pretty significant distance on his property. And we thought our conversation was private. And in my film, I just show you a little bit. I show the viewer that we are talking about element 115. We are talking about the idea that he might have retrieved a sample of element 115 and if you believe that he did that might give a rational explanation for the intense fbi multi-agency raid of his facility which happened the next day the day i left so uh that was the point in the movie. Now, of course, I fast forwarded through that scene in the movie, I am not showing the contents of that conversation.

Starting point is 01:06:54 Okay, so is the insinuation that the FBI or the CIA or whatever maybe was listening to you, even though you were 600 meters away from the house? Oh, they were, yeah. Yeah, like with some sort of shotgun microphone or they placed transmitters? Man, I got to tell you, it drove us crazy. I mean, Bob initially thought I talked. You know, Bob, all the fingers were pointed at me

Starting point is 01:07:21 from Bob and Bob's friends. You know, I was the guy with camera equipment, recording devices. And when they came and said, we know you had a conversation and we know, you know, some of the specifics of that conversation, it terrified us. OK, so let me break this down for you so it doesn't sound so cloak and dagger. this down for you so it doesn't sound so cloak and dagger we go out to where we thought was remote on bob's property out of precaution we're about okay we're about to talk about element 115 we're about to talk if bob lazar got element 115 out of los alamos this this super heavy element that apparently was brought here 500 pounds was brought here from somewhere else and our government was using it in these non-terrestrial craft. I mean, it's a wild

Starting point is 01:08:10 thing. And if Bob Lazar is telling the truth, just consider that for a second, just for a second, consider that Bob Lazar is telling you exactly what happened. The United States government is reverse engineering UFOs, alien spacecraft. They're trying to, and that they have some, they have physical evidence of an advanced civilization, not from this earth. And that these craft are, you know, show a technology that's way beyond what we have. Just imagine that he's telling you the truth. And then he says he got a piece of element 115 out of Los Alamos. Now, our government would want that back. So the idea is this is the one thing that's keeping him alive is that he's got this piece stashed somewhere.

Starting point is 01:08:59 So he's about to tell me about this. And we're going to talk through this. And we're going to talk about how you could get this out to the public. That's the premise here. So no shortcuts. That's the premise. So out of caution, I was like, well, Bob, if you are telling the truth, let's just go out of your house. And he's like, well, no one cares. This is 30 years ago. Nobody cares about me anymore. And I'm like, well, let's just go anyway. So we go out, you know, to this forested area. And then as I'm recording with him, I'm like, you know, we have cell phones.

Starting point is 01:09:34 I'm like, maybe I should put those cell phones like over there. So I take the cell phones, we turn them off, and I ditched them about 200 meters away. And we kind of joked about it. Like, who cares? No one's watching. No one cares, right? And then come to find out the next day he gets raided by multiple agencies. know, the documents that we have found, they say they were there on an unrelated issue. All these agencies were there because of thallium that, you know, that he might have thallium, you know, that he was selling. He didn't, not in the way that they said. So in Bob's experience, this is not the first time he's been raided by multiple agencies and people that have been on those raids.

Starting point is 01:10:23 I was able to talk with one and they're like, this is the weirdest raid in the world. We didn't know what we were looking for, but the way Bob experienced it, and you have to take Bob's word on it or don't, I don't care, but this is what he said, is that they came in, they could care less about this potential thallium that they cordoned off in grids, his entire building, which I know to be true. I talked to the employees. I have some photos and they were looking for the element 115. This is what he said on Larry King. And I stand by it as well. And the one thing they did was they repeated, I'll just say the best way to say it is they repeated back to him

Starting point is 01:11:05 part of our conversation, and it was mystifying. I mean, Bob immediately thought I leaked the feds. They mentioned your name, or they just said you recently talked to someone and this is what you said, or we hear it through the grapevine. I have to dance around this part,

Starting point is 01:11:24 but word for word, the conversation was relayed to Bob. There was no doubt that there was recording of that conversation. Now, it's not so weird when you find out through official documents that they had been surveilling both his home and his place of business two days prior to the raid when I was there. So now how did they achieve that recording? I have some friends that do these types of raids in federal agencies, and I have spoken with them. And I have learned that there are multiple ways to do this. Multiple ways. For example? For example, they have a very cool technology

Starting point is 01:12:13 that you can point at any window in any house and the vibrations of the voice can be picked up off of those windows. Now, obviously we were in the woods, right? So how did they get it? We have theorized over and over. We've looked into the technologies. We thought it could be our phones. And that's the number one culprit right now. We thought our phones had been turned into listening devices because they knew a certain amount. If they had heard that whole conversation, they would have no need to speak with Bob. Okay. So, so clearly at some point, Wait, what do you mean by that? If they'd heard the whole conversation, they wouldn't need to speak with him. Meaning that Bob conveyed to me the details

Starting point is 01:13:01 of the element 115 and potentially if he had some where he stashed it i see i see i see so they wouldn't need to contact bob okay because i was thinking that perhaps what it is is you said that you go home and you edit your footage i know for me i upload my footage simultaneously so it's syncing so i don't lose a backup and i thought perhaps when you went home you sunk it up somewhere and they have access to that. And I was so paranoid about it. First of all, Bob Lazar had never let anybody into his life to film with him. Right. Yeah. So I was every card I had was connected directly to a computer that never went online. There is no way. Interesting. Yeah, there is no way that anybody was able to get that out of the ether, you know? So first thing, you know, I thought is we went out to dinner that night, you know, did somebody come and like get my computer card and like, but it was, it was there right where I left it. And I don't see that as a possibility at this time. I mean, he didn't have security cameras up on his home, but I don't see that as a possibility. And just the mere fact that they decided to look at his place of business for the LV-115, they didn't hear the rest of the conversation. I've never talked about this, but that is how I understand it. Someone that doesn't want to believe Bob, this is just another reason to not believe

Starting point is 01:14:27 him. This sounds so crazy, but I'll tell you, it happened and it happened exactly the way I'm telling you. And I'm dead sure that our conversation was monitored, that they were able to record that conversation and that they had full knowledge of that conversation until I put the phones to the side. conversation. And that they had full knowledge of that conversation until I put the phones to the side. And that's why I think it was the phones because and by the way, if you write to the second part of that recording, which is by the way, now spread out on multiple drives in multiple

Starting point is 01:14:58 states, you know, it's never going away that footage, like I have that footage, there's no stopping it from coming out at it. It will come out one day when the time is right. But the point is, I think it was the phones. There are cool ways to get audio. It makes the most sense. It makes the most sense. It does.

Starting point is 01:15:17 But if you appeal to the NSA, who dictates some of these FISA warrants, and you know, these phone taps, they can never confirm nor deny. So you'll never get any information. So I'm unable to get any information if that is true or not, if it was the phone. Too bad, too bad. Oh, why do you say that this is what's keeping Bob alive? This is something I've thought about. And I'm sure many people as well. It's like, okay, if let's say Bob is telling the truth, why doesn't the government from day one or day two, just kill him? There's many ways that you can kill someone like, you know, breaking bad, you can just give someone ricin and make it look like they have the flu or especially right now during COVID. Yeah. So why is he still? Yeah, that would be a bad idea. A smart man like Bob, you know, has ways to get information out if he were to go

Starting point is 01:16:05 missing. So, you know, look, again, this is a very touchy situation. Bob wouldn't even talk about Element 115. Everything I'm saying now was off limits when I first started filming with him. Because if you believe Bob, this is real world implications. Somebody had to get him the 115 out of Los Alamos, a machinist. That could be very problematic. Like that's a real problem. That's a, you get charged, you get thrown away for smuggling. I mean, that's a bad thing.

Starting point is 01:16:43 So if we believe Bob and I'm okay, if people don't, like I'm totally cool. If people don't believe him, I wouldn't believe him if I didn't have the direct access to everybody in his life, you know, where I realized the story is true. So I don't expect going to believe it? Before December of 2018 and the U.S. government studying UFOs, who's going to believe Bob? Not many people. So is he really a threat, but a physical piece of evidence, I would suspect that is the reason why he's not just given rise to be killed because they know he probably has a backup plan. So if you are to believe Bob, I would think that's an important thing. I would be careful if I was Bob.

Starting point is 01:17:38 I see. When I was watching, I think it was called Immaculate Deception with John Lear. Yeah. I put out an episode of that. Yeah. When I was watching that, there was this clip with him saying behind me, maybe soon there's going to be some UFOs flying. That reminded me of what Bob did. Is he doing the same thing that Bob did where he gets some of his friends to film it because he knows the schedule of when these crafts are going to fly? No, no, I think I think John Lear's got a few screws loose. I mean, people are going to hate me for saying that, but he does. I mean, I love John.

Starting point is 01:18:09 He's like my crazy uncle. He does not love me anymore. He's very mad at me. Because? Oh, it's a long story. John's a conspiracy theorist. He was very difficult to work. He sabotaged his own movie,

Starting point is 01:18:23 the movie I was working on for seven years. He just killed it dead in the water because of his actions. I mean, he's John's pretty wild. Are you allowed to talk about that? Yeah, I'm under no contract. Yeah. Okay. What do you mean? How did he sabotage it? Well, I had filmed with John for many years, and I had a really good relationship with him. and I had a really good relationship with him. And when it came down to, you know, kind of his life rights and finally relinquishing and letting me make the film, he decided to sign him over on a napkin

Starting point is 01:18:53 to his daughter, basically. So when I had brought in other producers and people to come help bring this to life, you know, it was kind of like, you know, maybe there's money to be made, was his thought or something and just sabotage the whole thing so that's my version of it at least it's sad because he was a friend and i really um i care for john but he's i think he wanted to be the star of the movie and when i

Starting point is 01:19:20 made the bob lazar movie i think he was very upset the movie wasn't about him. Yeah. Oh, interesting. Yeah, yeah. But you know, for the record, I love John Lear. I wish him well. I care about him very much. Just unfortunately, he's sabotaged a lot of things in his life. And this is one of them. As for why John Lear hasn't been killed. Why do you think that is? He's not credible. hasn't been killed. Why do you think that is? He's not credible. But in the beginning, you said, look, this is someone who worked for the CIA as a pilot. And he has here's some world records that he has. Oh, yeah, no, he's done. He's had phases of credibility, for sure. Like, you know, look, he's an exceptional man. At one point, he was the youngest person ever to climb the matterhorn like the guy

Starting point is 01:20:05 was an explorer he was right about area 51 uh the term area 51 he was right about what they were doing there he actually was able look he comes from the lear family so at the news agencies in vegas like the guy has some credibility you know he was right about some of the back engineering of the Russian MiG fighter they were doing. And he got photos of the stealth fighter and leaked them to a guy named Ned Day in Las Vegas, a reporter who was George Knapp's mentor. So he had this credibility of being a guy that goes out in 1977, takes the best photo ever of Area 51 at lake level. I have that photo. I mean, this is like, hold on.

Starting point is 01:20:57 This is taking me one second, but I think it's worthy. Those are the neodymium magnets, man. Those things are strong. Cool. This is a photo from John Lear. This is the night in 1977, the year I was born. He went to Air 51 at lake level. The only security was a chain, a hanging chain. And he sits right at the lake level and he takes a panoramic of photos and he sees in the distance a car coming and it's kicking up dust right so you can see it coming from a long way away and he's like oh they're coming so he took that the camera he took the film put it under his ashtray

Starting point is 01:21:35 put in a new uh roll of film took the identical pictures and when they rolled up on him they said we know who you are you got a camera give us Give us the film. Pops open the camera, gives him the film. They never asked if he had another duplicate set inside his ashtray. It's a great idea. of Groom Lake, Area 51, at close range. And again, nobody had ever done that before. He wrote to me, he said, Jeremy, it's Groom Lake, you moron. Let's go Wednesday. And we went. That photo doesn't seem to show anything incriminating other than that there are buildings at Area 51.

Starting point is 01:22:20 No, no, in 1977 1977 it showed it it shows groom lake like there has not been a photo of groom lake since john lear's 1977 photos that have been that close up so it was just at the time in particular was is really crazy he's exposing this military base that people didn't even acknowledge the name of so So John had credibility. And then when he came forward to George Knapp about UFOs, no one wanted to touch it. George's bosses didn't want to touch it. George's boss famously said, or his mentor, Ned Day, famously said, if any of this were real, I would have known about it. Which is like the worst attitude. because it was real. Area 51 was real. What's going on there? And he didn't know about it. So that's when George Knapp picked up

Starting point is 01:23:11 all the UFO stuff and did his first report. When you said that UFOs are just some small part of a larger project, what did you mean? Phenomena. What do you mean? I like to say to the phenomenon, I believe from what the evidence shows me, that UFOs is a very small aspect of a much larger phenomenon. Okay, so what I mean by that is that UFOs appear to be part of a larger phenomenon, meaning UFOs are kind of an auxiliary implication of a much larger reality. of a much larger reality. So this idea that what we're seeing are machines from other planets, I'm unconvinced. What we may be seeing is an alternate reality. Maybe it is something closer to dimensional travel. There seems to be another version of reality that is occurring. to be another version of reality that is occurring and that somehow once in a while they they perforate and they pop through into our reality and this is not just from a cursory look at the UFO phenomenon this is from talking with

Starting point is 01:24:17 thousands of close encounter eyewitnesses who tell me that this is something bigger than just flying machines. To give you an example, at Skinwalker Ranch, the report is that a piece of the sky opened up like a tear, and out of this tear came beings, came craft. So UFOs is a symptom. It's part of this alternate reality, the phenomenon, as I call it. But it's not just about UFOs.

Starting point is 01:24:47 UFOs represent this phenomenon. What other phenomenon are there? Bigfoot, ghosts? Yeah, I don't know. That they're related to, I mean. Yeah, I wish I knew or I could stand firm in saying, I know this to be true. Skinwalker Ranch is the best example of this

Starting point is 01:25:04 because you have UFO phenomenon, but you also have cattle mutilation, which is often associated with lights in the sky. So cattle mutilation is something, as an example, concrete example, cattle mutilation. Is this a UFO phenomenon or is this a government experiment? Or is this a private corporation that's going around and mutilating these cows and draining their blood in the dead of night? Nobody has ever been caught during these cattle mutilations that are homogenous. They are the same across the board. They're drained of blood. There's two types of incisions. They take the same things, the genitals, the sexual organs, piece of the cheek and an eye and an ear. It's the same thing. So this is associated with

Starting point is 01:25:53 UFO phenomenon because the farmers and people that are cattle ranchers, they see UFOs oftentimes during these mutilations. So I can't separate them. Okay, so we got UFOs tied with cattle mutilation. Okay, that one I can understand. I mean, I've heard of that since I was a kid. Okay, what else that's tied to UFOs? What else is tied to UFOs? I mean, I don't know. The experiences are so wild, man.

Starting point is 01:26:19 I mean, when people get engaged with these entities, people have had, it's not just craft come in there and no one's flying them. I'll give you an example. The aerial school, this is an amazing case in South Africa. And 80 kids or something saw these craft land in the field by their school. All these kids, the BBC came the next day and interviewed these kids with head of Harvard psychiatry, John Mack. John Mack gets out there. They interview the kids. They all say the same

Starting point is 01:26:52 thing. These craft came down and they were little beings on the craft with these huge almond shaped eyes. And I've personally know two of the children, they were at the time children, personally know two of the children, they were at the time children, and then now they're adults, and they were within meters, I mean, within four feet. One of them was in four feet of one of these beings, bipedal being, wearing like a suit, a gray alien kind of thing with these huge almond-shaped eyes that she said mesmerized her. This is somebody who's not lying. I mean, all of these kids saw it. Again, John Mack at Harvard Psychiatry went, and he was head of Harvard Psychiatry, and he went, she said mesmerized her. This is somebody who's not lying. I mean, all of these kids saw it again, John Mack at Harvard psychiatry went and he was head of Harvard psychiatry and he went, interviewed them with the BBC. It's a historic case. And what was his conclusion?

Starting point is 01:27:35 That they're telling the truth, that they saw exactly what they said they saw. You can't make it up across all these kids with the same explanations. And Liesl and Salma are the two females who were there as kids that I know now, current day, and it has affected their lives. If you look at footage of them talking to John Mack on the BBC, and they're talking about how they were mesmerized, and then they showed them images in their mind's eye, like a movie of the destruction of our planet, mind's eye, like a movie of the destruction of our planet and how we have to be more careful with our ecosystem and our earth, and we need to treat it right or we're doomed. Well, back when this happened, that wasn't a huge topic of conversation like it is today with climate change.

Starting point is 01:28:18 So these children took on the burden of telling people what these aliens told them. took on the burden of telling people what these aliens told them. So that's a good example of a phenomenon that goes beyond just the hard craft, right? And goes into the beings operating them. Why did these, I know you're just going to have to speculate, but why do you think these aliens came to these African children instead of going to some places that could make a difference now, given let's say they're the CEO of some corporation that's exporting negative externalities in the form of pollution. Much higher rate than these 80 African children. Why do you think that they went to them? Yeah. I mean, again, you were right. I have to speculate. I mean, I have no inside knowledge. It's okay. Who cares? Who cares? Let's speculate. It's fine. I'm curious.

Starting point is 01:29:02 Yeah. Give me some ideas. Sure ideas sure sure let me toy with it yeah yeah for sure so total speculation i mean i'm not trying to be evasive about it i just like you know really when i don't know something dude i don't fucking know it so yeah here's the deal these beings these craft these entities maybe they're all playing the same game and on the same team? Maybe they're not. Maybe there's competing agendas. And maybe this is a learning process. Maybe it's so weird to think that we might not have even a most simple grasp on what's going on with UFOs and this alien presence, whatever this is. Maybe it's so much stranger. Again, maybe we're a commodity, maybe humanity itself. In one of the documents that Bob Lazar read, it called us containers.

Starting point is 01:29:55 You know, containers. Yeah, I heard that. Yeah. Containers of what? You know, blood? Are we containers of souls? I don't even know what a soul is. What is a soul? So maybe one of the crazier theories, you know, maybe we're containers for the maturation of souls, like a nice wine, you know, and we're a commodity in some way, just like we would, you know, make sure that our livestock doesn't spread a disease that eliminates them. You know, livestock doesn't spread a disease that eliminates them. You know, we're being, you know, these entities are being sure that we don't blow up our earth with our nuclear weapons, because somehow we're important to them. The nefarious version is we're a commodity. The non-nefarious version, you know, the positive version is that, you know, we're a sample of life and they want us to get through our primitive stage

Starting point is 01:30:46 of warfare and self-destruction and violence and hatred and racism, horrible shit, so that we can thrive in a larger community. I don't know. That was somewhat haunting when I heard that we're containers or that the aliens refer to us as containers.

Starting point is 01:31:06 Let's imagine it's true. It's just a somewhat terrifying thought. I mean, it depends on what you're containing. Well, again, I mean, we're talking, we're on real fringe territory here. Most people, they're worried about, you know, where their next paycheck's coming from. That's my doggy. Where the next paycheck's coming from. You know, people are worried about, you worried about keeping the peace within their own family.

Starting point is 01:31:29 People are worried about not giving a loved one COVID. I mean, this idea, I think, is very important, that we are not alone in the universe, that we are being visited by an intelligence that's far technologically superior to humanity, and that we've been visited for a long time. And that there is a message being sent in some ways to some people. Don't fuck up where you live.

Starting point is 01:31:52 And if that's the case, if that's really what's going on, it's an important message. But in some ways, it's also a fatalistic one because it doesn't matter what we do. They may save us if it's in their best interest, and they have extremely advanced technology. So why should we clean up the environment? They they'll probably save us at the last moment. No, I'm being serious if we're in their interest, our survivalist, maybe their interest is not just on the safety of the planet and the safety of the human species, you know, regenerating. Again, maybe there's a different investment that they have in the maturation of human consciousness. Like some spiritual development?

Starting point is 01:32:35 I don't know. I'm not particularly a spiritual person, necessarily. I'm not a religious person. So I don't know. I don't know. Are all of your films related to UFOs slash aliens, or do some of them touch on other subjects like near-death experience, remote viewing? Yeah, I mean, all of those things interest me. You know, the consciousness is not contained within the biology of the human body is a big one to me because, you know, it is evident that these phenomena, these beings use a different form of communication often, telepathic or whatever. But my films that are released, the big ones, Patient 17 is about an alleged alien implant removal surgery.

Starting point is 01:33:19 Doesn't get any weirder than that. get any weirder than that the second one is about hunt for the skinwalker which is a government study of a haunted property a property that has all sorts of strange phenomenon and the third one is about bob lazar and air 50 ufos and fly saucers um but i have done other films on uh things like nanotechnology i've done one on a something called a space drive, he called it. It's basically is a non-traditional propulsion system. These are short films, but those are of a lot of interest to me. So yeah. Are they available to be viewed by people on YouTube or Vimeo? Yeah, yeah. YouTube, Vimeo on my website. There's tons of information on that. And then I like doing a lot of short movies. My first movie had nothing to do with UFOs.

Starting point is 01:34:05 It was called Lost Vegas. And it's just a short 12 minute film maybe. And it's just about people that were kind of living on the Las Vegas strip, performers and whatnot. They're kind of jumped out at me. It was very deeply touching and personal and kind of a spiritual experience. And you see these individuals just exposing their deepest selves. It's pretty powerful short film. Speaking of patient 17, I have written down here what happened to patient

Starting point is 01:34:39 17 at the end, but I don't remember why I wrote that down. Does that ring a bell? Is that an incoherent question? No, I mean, at the end of the movie, it's, it's, it's frustrating. There was a sample of this material that was taken out of a guy's body. Now, if anybody knows me and watches the film, you know, intently and you watch it, I don't, this is not something I believe. I'm not pushing to my beliefs. I found somebody with an extraordinary belief. It's a doctor, a surgeon, Dr. Roger Lear, who said he's going to remove an alien implant. The guy, the patient 17 himself was not convinced that this had anything to do with his other experiences of abduction, which he does firmly believe he had.

Starting point is 01:35:20 So at the end, it's kind of like hard because what happens to the sample? I don't have control of the sample. I'm not a scientist. We got an anomalous result from the sample, meaning that the isotopes within the zinc-64 came back from the laboratory as non-terrestrial. That's how you tell location is isotopes. And this was odd. isotopes. And this was odd. So no, I didn't follow up. This is not my life. I'm not a scientist. That's Jacques Vallée, the famous Jacques Vallée. He can follow up with it. He is a scientist. So with patient 17, he went back to his normal life. You know, he's just a subject of a film. You mentioned that there's someone named Richard Doty who was driven mad. Do you mind expanding on that or expatiating? Yeah, that's a deep dive that people will need to really look into.

Starting point is 01:36:11 But no, Richard Doty did not go mad. There's a guy named Paul Benowitz. This was a situation where the United States government put disinformations into the UFO field. One of the guys involved, he's a friend of mine. Paul Benowitz? Benowitz. Benowitz. Yeah. This is a guy named Rick Doty, he's a friend of mine. Paul Benowitz? Benowitz. Benowitz. Yeah. This is a guy named Rick Doty, who's a friend of mine.

Starting point is 01:36:29 I like Rick. People vilify him and they're so angry I'm friends with him. He's a good guy. Okay, so who's Rick and who's Paul? And what happened to them? Rick Doty was paid to disinform the American public about UFOs by infiltrating the UFO field and spreading disinformation. And in one of his jobs doing this, there was an individual named Paul Benowitz, who was being fed the disinformation. And why it's so controversial is because Paul Benowitz

Starting point is 01:37:01 went crazy. You know, and some say it's because of the it's because of Rick Doty playing with his mind and his emotions. But in reality, Paul had had a breakdown prior. Paul was not fully hinged. So that's a very famous case in UFO lore about the United States military manipulating the beliefs of people within the UFO field, which has happened from time to time. Rick worked for the government and Paul was just someone who was interested in, or maybe he's a UFOlogist, as some people call them.

Starting point is 01:37:36 Yeah, he was a very brilliant scientist who worked near Manzano weapons storage area out in New Mexico. And he was filming things on a classified base from his home. And they were- Rick or Paul? What's that? Paul. Who was filming? Okay.

Starting point is 01:37:53 Paul was. And Rick was tasked with disinforming the UFO public and Paul and a couple other people, researchers. It happens all the time. People that research UFOs, you get hit with people trying to convince you of something. It happens to me all the time. I get evidence that's too good to be true. I get photographs, documents, and I never publish it because these people are fucking with me. You think that they're government spies or government agents? of who they work for. But yeah, certainly I have gotten information that feels too good to be true. And when I dig deeper and deeper,

Starting point is 01:38:31 I'm not going to fall for it. Yeah. I don't know who's orchestrating it. And Rick's role at the government was what? Was he a part of the CIA or FBI or what? Yeah, I think it was OSI, Office of Special Investigation for the Army. I don't recall specifically, but he has done a lot of counterintelligence and intelligence work for

Starting point is 01:38:51 the Army. Was this disinformation part of Project Blue Book or was this just a separate task? Yeah, it was separate. Project Blue Book officially ended in 1969. And there was a certain number of cases that were unresolved. But there have been active programs about UFOs since then. Lots. Did the government ever pay civilians to debunk UFOs, as far as you're aware? I've never been paid by the government to do anything about UFOs. So if somebody else is getting a paycheck, I'd like to know about it. Yeah, yeah. I mean, whatever. So I don't't know i don't know i i would imagine it's just like anything within the intelligence community is when you have individuals who are predisposed to doing the work that you want them to do you can fund them to to continue that work i've seen it

Starting point is 01:39:39 happen you know with with domestic terrorism i have a personal experience with that. I know individuals who were involved in that. And they were paid. Are you allowed to talk about that or no? I should, I should not, but it's just there were individuals involved with infiltrating domestic terrorist cells and you know, it's something that's done all the time. Yeah. Okay. you know, it's something that's done all the time. Yeah. Okay. David Fravor said that the Russians shot at a UFO and the UFO shot back.

Starting point is 01:40:10 I don't know if you've heard of this. Yeah, I'm unfamiliar. I'm unfamiliar with that. Okay, I'm going to send you the exact clip. And then if you don't mind watching it, because it might ring a bell. You know, it was an engaged five minute thing. And there's other stories from other countries.

Starting point is 01:40:23 Like there's a story in the back when the Soviet Union existed that they actually would chase these things and one of them shot at some – it shot it because they said shoot at it and it shot at it and then it got shot down. obviously they have firepower that we can't control because if you can make something float around and jam radars at will and do whatever you want you know modern terrestrial weapons are probably not very useful yeah i'm not i'm not familiar with that with that specific case but i know that there was a shoot down order in russia uh regarding ufos for a long time and then that that order was removed to to not engage and there was probably a good reason for that. But I don't know the specific case Commander Fravor is talking about. Have you heard of other cases where UFOs have engaged with an attack mode, let's say, to civilians or to the army? No, there is an interesting set of cases that the Argentinian government did a massive study on that you should look into

Starting point is 01:41:27 where these, they call them chupas, I think. How do you spell those? I think that was the name, C-H-U-P-A-S. I'm not sure that that's right. I could be getting that wrong. But there was, I think it was Argentina and there was this whole government study. Again, man, I could be getting this totally wrong, but I I'll send you the information later. But there, there were some instances of physical harm done by, by lights. But I think typically with the, with the UFO phenomenon, these things are disinterested in us. Usually they're doing something like in the Travis Walton case, very famous case, Travis Walton was abducted. And you can look into this case yourself, but he believes that when he encountered the UFO in the forest, that it let off a field that did hurt him. But then maybe they swooped him up to take care of him and drop them back off days later. I don't think there's overt hostility. Obviously there's weaponry that would completely nullify anything that we have within our arsenals

Starting point is 01:42:29 of defense in any developed nation on earth. So obviously these things are not overtly hostile. You know, that goes back to, you know, any of these encounters, you're just not seeing attack mode by these things. So Brandon Fugel said that there were some of his employees or people studying Skinwalker that were actually hurt and had to be hospitalized. Do you know of any of those cases? Can you tell me about the details? Yeah. So you're talking about Skinwalker Ranch and the current owner is Brandon Fugel. The owner before was Robert Bigelow, aerospace billionaire, Robert Bigelow. I do know that at Skinwalker Ranch, that there are a lot of claims of people having physical

Starting point is 01:43:14 injuries from the phenomenon itself. I remain unconvinced on that connection and association between the phenomenon and these injuries. Now, I could be wrong. I do know that psychologically people have been injured from engaging the phenomenon. It appears that when they do, that it appears to follow them. And that is something that George Knapp has talked a lot about. And if there's a grain of truth to it, you're going to find it at Skinwalker Ranch. And when you say the phenomenon, you mean it more like in the Wittgenstein sense of a family resemblance. It's not just UFOs, it's cognate topics like UFOs are witnessed when there's a whole bunch of other phenomena going on as well. I mean,

Starting point is 01:44:01 so people are having visions, they're having telepathic experiences, obviously there's occupants. So Skinwalker Ranch really teaches us that, that UFOs is just a part of the phenomena. It's a part of a bigger reality that we get to see from time to time. Have you spent any nights at Skinwalker? Sure have, yeah. Okay. What's happened to you personally? To me, that I was aware of nothing. I just, you know, snuggled with a friend out of terror and fear. I mean, you know, there's, there's nothing that I have as far as that's a positive. Oh, absolutely. He's a good big spoon. My buddy, Matt Adams. No, you know, look, I've had only positive experiences at Skinwalker Ranch.

Starting point is 01:44:47 I've had only positive experiences at Skinwalker Ranch. I did just before you called me today, I did get a message from Robbie Williams security, head of security, a guy named Neil. And Robbie Williams is a, is a pop star from England. And he came with me to Skinwalker Ranch and me and George Knapp. And his security guy, Neil, was also with us. And Neil did claim to witness a very strange phenomenon, which was this, like a shadow being, I guess you'd say, look like a tall being, follow me through the kitchen, a skinwalker ranch. Now, I didn't see it. Yeah, yeah. But I didn't see it. I never see anything like that. I would love to turn around and be like, yo, shadow person, tell me what's up. I never see this kind of stuff, but he's dead fast that he did see it with another guy that was at the table. What he didn't know is that in the Defense Intelligence

Starting point is 01:45:46 Agency study, in this command center that we were in, that this shadow being phenomenon had occurred twice before. He was not privy to that information. So if he was making something up, he could have made up anything and it wouldn't have rung a bell. That's what's so weird about the ranch. So I didn't see anything. I'm open to it being true. I don't necessarily believe it to be true, but we're talking about a witness who is trustworthy. And he was seeing it live in person or was film live in person. The thing apparently followed me right through the kitchen and he, I could see this look on his eyes and, and, uh, he told me about it. And I have this like a six minute audio clip. We're going in the car and he tells me about it. And I recorded, he didn't tell you right then there's someone behind you or a shadow person.

Starting point is 01:46:38 No, he said, it's time to go. Interesting. And someone else saw it too. He said, yeah, yeah. There was somebody else at the table that was able to see i miss everything man my back's always turned i mean look in conclusion we'll wrap this up with this man in conclusion you don't have to take my word for it ufos are real and enough evidence is out there for you to understand that. If UFOs are real, then that should make you so curious about what they represent, what alternate reality they represent. There's an uncharted territory, a mystery here that UFOs are a beacon for. But by studying UFOs and by really

Starting point is 01:47:22 looking at the history of what's happened, the credible information, there is an alternate reality. There's a reality that is more expansive and bigger than what we know. And that's what's so exciting to me about the UFO topic. One day, I hope to learn more about it. And I hope to get closer to the truth. But right now, I'm like you. I'm just hungry for answers.

Starting point is 01:47:44 Jeremy, thank you so much. Do you happen to have, I know you got to go soon or even right now I'm like you, I'm just hungry for answers. Jeremy. Thank you so much. Do you happen to have, I know you got to go soon or even right now, do you happen to have 10 extra minutes because I have quite a few audience questions. We can just hammer them out. Yeah, sure. Let's do it. Great. Thank you so much. Okay. Rivulet says I'm curious what he was like as a kid. If he knew he was going to be doing something of this nature, if he was intrigued by the abnormal, I suppose.

Starting point is 01:48:09 No, I had no idea. Like, you know, how do you ever know what you're going to do doing something of this nature if he was intrigued by the abnormal i suppose uh no i had no idea like you know how do you ever know what you're gonna do when you grow up you know i don't know that i'm growing up yet let's see what's next okay then he also asks and has his occupation ever gotten dangerous for instance threats from shady figures offered money to be quiet wish i was offering money to be quiet, but I never shut up. No, nothing dangerous. The only thing dangerous are the people that are so angry at me for being on social media. I don't know. What's the single best piece of evidence you've come across in studying the UFO phenomenon? That's the same question that I ask every single person that I first interview anytime I turn on the camera, and I've never gotten a satisfactory answer. I certainly can't give you one. My best evidence

Starting point is 01:48:50 that I have is my own personal experience and the people that have come forward to me who don't want fame or to be known and have told me a verifiable piece of information that I can't show the public. For me, that's the coolest piece of evidence viewer q says he wants to know the or she the three most influential slash perspective shifting books to you and why oh man um well a story the plato's cave amazing um three most influential like the most the absolute most oh my gosh I don't know man I read mostly like martial arts philosophy books so

Starting point is 01:49:38 um art of, another great book. I don't know. I like to read for fun. Okay. Voyager UK 2002 said, in his movie with Lazar, he surprised Bob with a photo of a hand scanner. And apparently the same scanner was used in Close Encounters of the Third Kind. What does Jeremy and Bob think about this? Well, Bob's in here. No, I'm glad people ask and that that's a nice way of asking people are so accusational man people

Starting point is 01:50:10 totally fucking misunderstood the point so okay close encounters this clip has now come out that the hand scanner was in it now i've watched that movie i've watched that movie tons of times have you ever watched the movie? Okay. No, I don't know what this person is talking about or what you're talking about. That hand scanner was never publicly shown or talked about. It was not even on people's radar

Starting point is 01:50:37 till after Bob Lazar, right? Also in the movie, they don't show what the scanner does, how it accesses the bone lengths and that kind of thing. The revelation of my movie was not that the hand scanner existed. And of course, remember, things like Close Encounters, people are advising that movie. Military people are advising that movie. I know people who advise that movie.

Starting point is 01:51:01 So it's no surprise that they would use a scanner that is used in the UFO programs in that movie, but they never expressly say it. Now, Bob Lazar, we've all watched that movie. None of us thought about that. Everybody said Bob was crazy, but he said at site four, they used this scanner. It was really weird. It measured your bones. I have the audio and visual of him doing that to George Knapp. Come to find out, it was acknowledged. It was acknowledged that these scanners were used at Area 51 and Area 52. This happened while I was filming the movie. So when I got that image and I showed it to Bob, that is a genuine reaction. He was like, holy, you know, whatever he said, holy, you know, this is the fucking scanner. I never thought I would see this again. He didn't say all the F-bombs and all that. So people like to say, because the scanner was in the movie Close Encounters, that Bob just made it up. Well, guess what? If he made it up,

Starting point is 01:51:59 he's again, the luckiest person on planet earth earth because turns out we now know they were used at area 51 and area 52. How did Bob know? So you come back into the same problem. If you want to shit on Bob and try to call him a liar. Well, he's the luckiest liar you ever met then. Okay. We'll get to the next one. Steven Paul. He says artist filmmaker, dot, dot, dot. Ask him about sense making. How does he navigate through the chaos sense making yeah let's skip that and then he wants to know ask if he's read future shock by toffler i have not is it good i'm just i'm just asking steven paul's question okay all right read it okay efron did you have any problems with authorities when trying to film? What happened and how did you overcome them? No, no problems.

Starting point is 01:52:50 It was just the recording of the conversation and the raid, but that didn't mess with me at all. Okay. Efron again. Do you think the government will ever expose aliens to the public as disclosure? No, not in the big sense, like aliens are here, we're going to tell you everything about them. It's too guarded a secret because of the potential for weaponization.

Starting point is 01:53:08 Efron also asks, what's your advice to other documentary filmmakers attempting to create films regarding E.T.? Let's say. I mean, if I can do it, literally anybody can do it. I just grabbed the cameras, started filming, got Final Cut Pro and edited it. Very simple. So just do it. Don't ask permission.

Starting point is 01:53:26 Actually, that is the advice. Don't ask permission and don't give a shit what other people think. Make your movie. Joshua Lysak asks, have you heard of Wright-Patterson Air Force Base? And what are your thoughts on what goes on there? I sure have heard of Wright-Patterson Air Force Base. That is famously where there is a place called Hangar 18, where they hold some UFO materials. So yeah, I have heard about it. And what goes on there is that they house extraterrestrial artifacts there. Do you have any information that hasn't been, let's say, disclosed or not known to the UFO community about it? I do. And I will be presenting that information when I can back it up thoroughly. But I do. There's a warehousing program that is very interesting.

Starting point is 01:54:14 It's been quoted to me as a museum of paper, a location where there's a clearinghouse for all UFO-based content over the decades. Mike Wixon asks, how much of our current technology is based on reverse engineering of technologies from other beings? And if you could provide some examples, if you know of any. Yeah, that's debatable. A lot of people have argued that. There's a real famous book that deals with Colonel Corso's claims about how industry has been seeded with certain things like supercapacitors or whatever. Or what are they called?

Starting point is 01:54:43 Whatever it is. Superconductors? Superconductors. So I don't know if that's true. I suspect there is some overlay with, with, with, but, but I do know this. I do know that the problem that we're facing now with our military is that a lot of these technologies are wrapped up in black budgets with private industry who seem to supersede the power of chain of command with our military with these programs, which is a real problem for our sense of government. So there are individual corporations which have historically held on to these programs and they're not sharing information. Some of this might be retreading some of our interview,

Starting point is 01:55:26 but I'm going to ask it again. Maybe you can give a compendious answer. Mike Wixon also asks, if we've been visited by aliens since the beginning of time, or at least since a long time ago, which aliens are they? Where are they from? And are there more than one species visiting us?

Starting point is 01:55:42 Actually, I would suspect that there's more than one species that's visiting. Again, if this is not some simulation reality, if the whole thing is not a simulation reality, then yeah, I'd suspect there's different beings that are visiting. And the UFO phenomenon goes back to the beginning of recorded human history. Sajat asks, why are they always so clandestine in their abductions? And if they're directing our evolution, that means they effectively are the creators of religion. So how does this play into the greater picture? That's been claimed before, you know, that they've influenced our religion and politics and thoughts. And I don't know, clandestine. I mean, if you're going to

Starting point is 01:56:23 abduct somebody, you should probably be clandestine about it. I don't know, clandestine. I mean, if you're going to abduct somebody, you should probably be clandestine about it. I don't know. David Gibson asks, what fascinates him about aliens? Man, that we're not alone. You know, just this concept that human beings are, you know, semi-intelligent beings predisposed to war, but that we might have other brothers and sisters and individuals out there, life forms with other forms of propulsion, other forms of technology,

Starting point is 01:56:57 maybe other understandings of the universe, dreams for the future. That's powerful. That is what's most interesting to me okay and just a couple more voyager uk 2002 westfall ufo mass sighting in 1966 melbourne australia witnessed by over 200 school children that's not even a question it's just a point okay do you have any comments on that look into the case it's a great case all right number two okay it's another it's another point like that phoenix lights okay number three travis travis walton's abduction why does nobody

Starting point is 01:57:34 talk about this anymore where are the loggers who are involved in this it has a profound impact on them they don't like each other but they never changed their story regardless. That's true. Not everybody gets along, just like with Bob Lazar. Look, not everybody gets along. They were surrounding Bob at the time, but they all agree on one thing. Everything happened exactly like Bob Lazar said. So same with the other case you just mentioned. Travis Walton? Yeah, Travis Walton. I brought him up earlier. I mean, it's an important case and people are talking about it. I mean, I don't know if you want to hear more about it, someone should make a movie on another movie. Voyager UK 2002. Perhaps

Starting point is 01:58:16 you should make a documentary on it. There we go. There's a great one out about Travis. Jeremy, thank you so much. I appreciate it. Hey, man, I'm just so excited that you're interested in it. There's a PhD level understanding of UFOs that needs to occur before you can even begin to have the right questions. But the initial reason why people are interested in this is because the implications that something is greater in our reality and we have been lied to. This has been hid from us, that our governments have been implicit in hiding this information from us. That is huge. And so I think when someone gets interested in this concept, what I'd like to tell them is, you know, keep your mind open about it.

Starting point is 01:59:05 Keep an open mind, but don't let the marbles fall out your head. There's a big problem. It's called UFO disease. You start believing one thing, you believe anything. Keep your head on straight. Look at this rationally. Look at the mountain of evidence. Be skeptical, but don't become a debunker.

Starting point is 01:59:25 We've already decided one way or the other. Have you seen the Skinwalker series? I don't remember who published it. History Channel, maybe? Yeah, TV series. Yeah, yeah. What do you think of it? I actually haven't watched the whole series, but I think it's great that Brandon Fugel

Starting point is 01:59:40 is allowing people to document what's going on. Look, it's TV. I've heard the criticisms that, you know, it's exaggerated for the TV show. I, you know, I don't know. There's a mystery at Skinwalker Ranch and that, that mystery is alive and well, and it's worthy of scientific pursuit. The UFO topic is worthy of scientific pursuit. People like Neil deGrasse Tyson shouldn't make comments about low resolution photos when clearly he doesn't know what an at-flare camera is, a targeting pod. People like that, we should

Starting point is 02:00:13 hold this information to a higher standard. It is one of the greatest revelations that we could possibly have if it turns out it is true. Not only are we not alone in the universe, which you all suspect because it's mathematically probable, but additionally, they are visiting here. That is the key point. And if that's true, then that's going to speak volumes about our technology and why they're doing it. I'm super interested in talking to someone about the physics and getting into some of the details and some of the nitty gritty. Do you happen to know? Well, maybe Travis Taylor, someone I'm, I don't know if you've heard of Travis Taylor. Yeah, I've heard of him. He's in that TV series. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. I'm trying to think about who would be a good person. Obviously, I would recommend

Starting point is 02:00:59 that everybody go look at my YouTube channel, which is just YouTube slash Jeremy Corbell. go look at my YouTube channel, which is just a YouTube slash Jeremy Corbell. And there's a, a long version on there called the anatomy of a UFO. And that's where Bob Lazar describes the propulsion system itself, how gravity wave amplification works with the structure of the craft that he was able to have hands on with. I saw a video with him, but it was from maybe 30 years ago. Is this the one that you're referring to? Or is no, I filmed this with him. It's a 17 minute version of him explaining and drawing the UFO that he worked on, but explaining how the propulsion system works with the structure of the craft. Okay. Okay. All right. Well, all right. Thank you so much, man. I appreciate it.

Starting point is 02:01:47 I'm a fan. So any of the haters, if you want to, you can hate on me as well then. Yeah. I, I, look, I don't mind. Everybody can have an opinion, even wrong opinions people can have. But the idea is that the individual, it's, it's not the messenger. It's, it's the message. If you're interested in this at all, you know, try to move the ball forward rather than trying to suppress people that are trying to talk about this. The comments land flat anyway. I don't read comments. So enjoy, and hopefully people get curious and like to say weaponize your curiosity.

Starting point is 02:02:20 All right, man. Have a great one. Okay. Have a great night, man. Thank you. Do you have ADHD? You know, I was actually diagnosed with ADHD before it was, you know, kind of a very common thing when I was a kid and they put me on, must've been like a Ritalin based drug. And I took it for

Starting point is 02:02:43 like a week and I, I felt horrible. Like I felt like my soul was ripped out of me and I was like 10. It was before it became so well known, you know? So yeah, I guess I do. I mean, stimulants make me kind of tired, like coffee and stuff. So, you know, I think I'm the same way. Yeah. Yeah. So stimulants have a paradoxical effect on me, unfortunately, because I would love, I would love, you know i'm the same way yeah yeah so stimulants have a paradoxical effect on me unfortunately because i would love i would love you know many people say that they live by nootropics and

Starting point is 02:03:13 amphetamines and so on but anytime i've tried virtually anything it hasn't helped it maybe has made me worse almost nothing helps except yeah it's like the reverse yeah it's like the reverse stuff yeah i don't know everybody's you know got to figure out what works for them but uh yeah

Theories of Everything with Curt Jaimungal - Jeremy Corbell on The Inside Story of Lazar's raid, Skin Walker, and UFOs

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