This Paranormal Life - #344 Is Shakespeare’s Macbeth Cursed?

Episode Date: December 5, 2023

Macbeth is one of the most famous plays of all time, but did you know that it’s cursed? Legend has it that Shakespeare’s witch dialogue was so realistic he actually stumbled across real spells that cursed the play to this very day, and that just by uttering the word ‘Macbeth’ in a theatre is enough to doom the production. It may sound far-fetched but the long list of victims of the curse says otherwise… So it’s time for Kit and Rory to investigate and find out - is the curse of Macbeth really paranormal, or just superstition?TPL MERCH STORE - https://www.thisparanormallife.com/storeFollow us on Twitter, Instagram, and YouTubeJoin our Secret Society Facebook CommunitySupport us on Patreon.com/ThisParanormalLife to get access to weekly bonus episodes!Buy Official TPL Merch! - thisparanormallife.com/storeIntro music by www.purple-planet.comResearch by Ewen FriersEdited by Philip Shacklady Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Do ghosts call getting ghosted getting humaned? What if the earth isn't just flat, but it's a cube? Answers to these questions and more on... This Paranormal Life! Hello! Whoa! And welcome back to This Paranormal Life. It's Tuesday.

That is the time of the week when this comedy podcast comes at you with a brand new tale. We have to decide by the end of the episode whether this comedy podcast comes at you with a brand new tale. We have to decide by the end of the episode whether or not it's truly paranormal. My name is Kit Greer-Molvena. I'm sitting across from Rory Pars. How the hell are you doing today, Rory? Doing pretty good. Let me tell you, the setting is right to investigate the paranormal because while we sit here in our cozy little studio, there is a apocalyptic style storm raging outside of our windows. I don't know if you can hear the rain blasting down,

but it's so severe that I believe the government just had to put weather warnings in effect. We're recording right in the middle of Storm Debbie. Debbie is cruel and she is loud. We've got a skylight here in the studio and it's smashing against it and hopefully using the power of um audio cleaning technology you're hearing none of it right i have to catch a flight in a few hours so i am a little bit worried at gale force winds and thunder clouds rolling in so you know if uh if you ever want to do an investigation in the future on ghosts,

maybe I'll be the one that you get in contact with. You know, me and Rory are a little like the royal family. We never travel together just in case the feds bust one of us

or they take that plane down. I don't think that's why the royal family don't travel together in case they get busted by the cops. After the shit they've done, it should be. It is true, but in the country, there has been a lot of people who don't have power right now.

So I don't know, Rory. We better get some Heinz baked beans at the ready. We could be in for the long haul. Maybe we'll just do a podcast marathon if you get stuck here. Right. I'm so ill- ill prepared for any kind of apocalyptic setting. I think it would be three days before I die. Three days wouldn't be doing too badly. I had you down for 12 hours. 12 hours. I could do probably three days. I'm the kind of

guy that would go to the supermarket, roam the aisles to get a can of beans and then use that can of beans to hit another man over the head and take all of his supplies right i don't know how to open beans so i'll just use it as a weapon to kill and pillage right yeah you know your your basic survival skills are so poor you trade the can of beans for a tin opener and then afterwards you're like ah shit i'm like learning skills but to do the wrong thing like an old man will teach me how to make a fire and i'm like oh this will be great for burning the evidence of the crimes we commit right now that there are no laws anymore and he's like i shouldn't have taught you how to make fire right you know you break into a supermarket in the zombie apocalypse and just take all the kind of valuable goods as if

you can sell anything anymore when you should have been taking medicine and food the doctors are teaching me how to like sew up wounds in case anyone gets injured and i'm like yeah this will be really helpful to sew up the little mouths of the complainers in my group of survivors it's like this is awful you know uh you say we're not really cut out for it roy but i think actually we are perfectly cut out for the apocalypse because as paranormal investigators we already know to trust no one right that's the first survival skill of all you know if you're holed up in your house shotgun pointed at the door waiting for zombies to break in you know there'll be people knocking the outside going like uh ambulance here we're

taking survivors to the commune where we're gonna live and prosper is there any survivors here i'm gonna shout out like oh hello satan you little liar oh yeah there's a survivor in here please come in and help and i'll have a 12 gauge ready for them because i trust no one oh yeah look as paranormal investigators we were born with mistrust oozing from our bodies even as a baby if my mother so much as tried to give me a bottle full of milk i would slap it out of her hands and say get that poison cream away from me you harlot oh my god you don't want your baby boy to survive mother i'm starting to see why you were adopted yeah also incredibly malnourished but rory uh i hope for the love of god that we are able to make it through the next 60 minutes or so uh unscathed by the storm right lord knows even if that skylight gives out, even if this room starts flooding,

we are going to continue to bring you guys the truth. We're going to continue to podcast, even up to my dying breath, because today's story cannot wait. It has to be told, even though it is a very old story, I will say. A story that's quite well known and does not rely on us telling it,

but it is a fun one. It is a fascinating one. Okay, I am ready to get spooked. What we are going to get into is one of the most famous curses in all of paranormal history. We'll get right into it after a couple of words from today's sponsors, with a reminder that this episode and every episode of This Paranormal Life is available ad-free right now at patreon.com forward slash This Paranormal Life is available ad-free right now at patreon.com forward slash This Paranormal Life. Okay, Rory, you might live in London, but imagine living in London and cast your mind back almost a hundred years to the 30s in London.

Okay, this was a classy time, you know, guys in suits driving around in those old cars that went, when you push the horn, you know, it was an exciting time to be in the city. Right, you would, you know, in one of those cars, you would drive by at four miles per hour, and people would scream at you like, slow down, slow down,'re gonna kill someone probably no seatbelts so four slash five was kind of the fastest you would go it's an excellent point it was clearly a london that looked pretty different to london now i don't know if rory would have survived uh back then on those streets i don't know how many kind of pizza spots and gaming bars there were hey you give me a tin of beans brother and i

could survive anywhere it's the other people you gotta be worried about because i'm hitting them with the beans yeah we've made that clear abundantly clear i want to make it clear as everyone knows hard cut to rory in the dock defending himself for attempted murder it's like and the defendant was seen at the scene of the crime holding a pretty badly dented tin of beans. The judge is like, you're obviously guilty. We're going to send you to the electric chair. Ah, that sucks to hear. For my last meal, though, could I just get a hard tin of f***ing beans, Your Honor?

Get him out of here. I'll kill you. That's right, we are in 1930s London and the acting company at the iconic Old Vic Theatre in Waterloo are preparing themselves for the opening night of their latest production. But on this night, what should have been an exciting time was instead strange and sad because of some recent events.

Namely, the tragic death of Lillian Bayliss, the theatre's director. Just a few days prior, Bayliss had fallen down, exhausted and died of a heart attack right in the middle of rehearsals. Oh. Which unless they had been rehearsing Stomp for 13 hours straight, that would not normally be something you would expect to happen in a theater rehearsal. Yeah, it's always scary if something serious happens while rehearsing for a play or a musical, because sometimes the thing that happens is also what's supposed to happen in the scene. You know, it's like here where we grew up, I remember there was a performance of Jesus Christ Superstar where one of the main actors

was supposed to be hung at the finale by a rope. Fortunately, something went wrong and I think he was just hung. Okay. So everyone watching the performance is like, my God, he's really going for it. Look, he took out his pocket knife. He's trying to cut the rope down.

He's like screaming for the director to help. He's breaking the fourth wall. This is crazy. He's taking it to new heights. Luckily, he was fine. But yeah, you just have to be careful because when there's dangerous things happening on stage, sometimes they're also just happening in real life. But despite the theatre director

having died very recently, the night must go on. And on this night, the star of the show sat pensively in his dressing room. Sorry, someone just died of a heart attack during rehearsals, and they're just going to continue like nothing happened? Didn't you hear me, mother? Didn't you hear me, mother f***er? The show must go on. Listen, I don't care if someone died. People paid at least a few pounds for their tickets. Rory, all I'm saying is we just finished a live tour.

If you had died, best believe the show would have gone on. What, you would have rolled me out like Weekend at Bernie's? Control me like a meat puppet? I don't know what I would have done. All I know is I play by the rules of theater. Which are? The show must go on. Okay.

That's the only rule I know. I think the idea was maybe if this had been the leading man or something. Sure. They might have not done it because that would have effed the show. Been kind of hard to do. Yeah. I think at this point, I don't know how theater works, but I think the theater director dying days before the opening night, their job's kind of done. The show's ready. That's a horrible way to look at it. But you know, but what's the theater going to do? Just go out of business. They got to kind of put bums in

seats and uh run the show anyway yeah i guess so it's not a great attitude but sure why not and i'm sure nothing will come back to bite them on the ass as i say the star of said show is sitting pensively in his dressing room that That's your five-minute call, Mr. Olivier. Startled out of deep thought, the Laurence Olivier, considered to be the greatest stage and film actor of all time, responded, Thank you. I'll be right out.

Kind of interesting that you cast yourself as the legendary greatest screen actor and stage actor of all time with charming and impeccable performance. And I'm the, what did you say? The Cockney stagehand. Yeah, that guy is a bin man. That seems irrelevant to the story. Yeah, he moonlights as a stagehand. That seems unnecessary to include that, right?

But maybe my guy's like a budding actor. Like one day, he's actually like kind of a genius. Nope. Yep, just... But he has a hidden talent though, right?

No, he's actually fallen on hard times and that's why he's taking a second job as a stagehand. I see, which will make that redemption all the sweeter. I don't really care

for the arts, me. Waste of money as far as I'm concerned. That's what he thinks. Which makes it even better when presumably towards the care for the arts, me. Waste of money as far as I'm concerned. That's what he thinks. Which makes it even better when, presumably, towards the end of the story, he realizes he was wrong and becomes a star himself. He actually, well, it's actually,

I didn't include it in the final script, but he actually, right after this, he got his cock and balls stuck in the elevator door. How? You know, kind of comical, yet ridiculous, yet tragic end for that character. He's actually incredibly short-lived.

I think we probably don't need to include that in the story then. Whereas, well, I didn't, but you asked me what happened to him. Whereas Lawrence, you know, it is funny, you know, we all know of him, obviously. He's quite famous.

And the more I read, the more i kind of saw a lot of myself in him any parts particular truly the greatness okay the the and also the humbleness is that a word i don't think so you're not being very humble currently i would say i would say uh but you know i haven't heard enough of your performance yet. I'm willing to hear it out. You know, I've never stepped foot on the theatre stage, but I've just always felt that if I did, I would be the goat. Right.

So you've never performed once in any capacity on the stage. Yeah. But I watched videos of Lawrence do it, and it doesn't look that hard. Because he's incredibly talented. He makes it look really easy. Yeah, that's a skill in itself. Which it is. It's only extra weird because you, in the past, I think on multiple occasions,

have gotten your cock and balls trapped in an elevator door. So it feels like if you were any character in the story. I just don't see how that would be relevant. Yeah. Yeah. It happens to a surprising amount of people every year. I think it's something like six or five people a year in the world it happens to. It's not that many.

So for it to happen to me twice in one year is like not that weird. You should have learned. You should have learned from the first time. Lawrence is slow to gather himself. I guess something about Lillian's sudden death goes beyond a simple tragedy. He feels uneasy and easy to understand why. Because backstage amongst the crew and amongst the actors, they have one thing on their mind. It's the curse.

Someone ain't been careful with their choice of words. Something else bad is going to happen. I can feel it. I knew no good would come of this production. Well, later that night, Olivier is on stage and true to form, he's captivating the audience. My thought, whose murder

yet is but fantastical, shakes so my single state of man. That function is smothered in some eyes eyes and nothing is but what is not he is finally able to shut out the superstitious thoughts and doubts when just then a clattering is heard above the stage directly above olivier a 25 pound counterweight snaps tumbling past the lighting trusses and hurtling directly towards him. But he sidesteps as the

weight smashes onto the stage. The audience and cast are stunned. As the dust settles, the whispers in the audience return. It's the curse! It's the curse! You see,

Olivier and co. weren't performing just any old play that night. They were performing what the superstitious amongst them would call the Scottish play, more commonly known as Macbeth. Ooh, alright, one of the greats. Yes, today we will be investigating William Shakespeare's medieval masterpiece and the deeply held belief, particularly among actors, that it's cursed. If something goes wrong like that in a play and one guy backstage starts going, it's the curse, it's the curse, just arrest him now. Because I'm going to think that immediately he cast the curse and he's actually kind of excited that it's working. Right, does he have a smile on his face?

Right, yeah. Yes. You know, I'm also worried for anyone who, you know, because we've worked backstage at these kind of things. Hell, you've worked on stage at these kinds of things. I have. Whenever I've worked backstage at this kind of stuff, I didn't give a shit about what was going on. I was a bit like the guy getting his cock and balls stuck in the lift. I didn't care about the show.

I was just there because it was a job or whatever. Terrible attitude, by the way. Don't give a shit about the guy getting his cock and balls stuck in the lift I didn't care about the show I was just there because it was a job or whatever terrible attitude by the way don't give a shit about the arts really this isn't the opinion

of most stagehands I would say most commonly stagehands do care about the performance they actually enjoy the craft to be honest if the whole thing got cancelled

and I just got paid that would be ideal catch kid in the rafters loosening ropes and weights before the performance hoping he could take out one of these f**kers and get an early night what i'm saying is if you get the text being like hey we need some extra help on this production you want to hop in and do a few

shifts this week yeah here's the show times if you then turn up and you're like you know doing doing the job for a few hours and sure you're enjoying yourself and then you hear someone crying saying it's the curse it's the curse i'm starting to regret signing up for this job right because i might not have known that there was a curse that someone is going to get hit with a looney tunes anvil and it could be me yeah maybe these companies are calling people up being like we need a few uh sacrifice volunteers for the performance uh if you guys could just stand over here on this red x and we'll get everything underway yeah uh one question i was noticing online that you were advertising this this job was paying twice what every other job was paying is there any reason

for that uh we just think you guys deserve everything uh you know for your short time left on this earth oh right okay you never know what time the theater so it's a short run oh it's a real short run buddy you're gonna reach the end of your performance tonight uh i agree though i think this story just goes to show just what kind of like just how on edge everyone was feeling if as soon as something happened people are whispering it's the curse it's the curse yeah don't do the show if that's a situation that can arise rory how much do you know about macbeth uh very surface level surface level stuff. All I know is you don't say it. Huh?

You don't say the name. Tell me that earlier, bud! No, but you're not supposed to do it if you're performing the show, I believe. Or maybe just in any theater, it's bad luck to say Macbeth before any performance. I'm not entirely sure how much it's spread, but the idea is just uttering the word

curses the performance and means that an ill fate will befall the members of the the cast or individuals in the theater that is exactly right this is probably one of the world's most famous curses there's a lot of famous ones out there the curse of boy king tutankhamun and his uh tomb cursed diamonds and things like that we've covered in the podcast before but this is one of the most uh widely known now it is one we have talked a bit about on the podcast before i think probably when talking about other curses or other curses in the context of theater and production and stuff like that. Sure, sure. It was one that I felt deserved closer examination because

this play is so famous. That's right, Shakespeare's Macbeth goes by many names. The Bard's play, the unmentionable Harry Lauder, or as we've heard just now, the Scottish play.

All imaginative alternative titles for Macbeth. But why? Well, as we've heard just now, the Scottish play. All imaginative alternative titles for Macbeth. But why? Well, as we know, Rory, people working in theatres are a superstitious bunch at the best of times. And it turns out there are actually many rules of theatre world that I have to say I had no idea about. But, Rory, you're a lot more experienced in theatre than me. Do you know any other theater

rules i don't think so as in like supernatural ones essentially aside yes aside from the normal rules of society such as don't kill people don't steal those are all the normal rules of the world but there's theater specific ones that are superstitious uh not that i know of which is worrying because i've been in a lot of performances that have gone very wrong. So I assume I was triggering them left, right and center. Right, Rory was backstage smashing mirrors and walking under ladders.

Well, why don't I give you a couple and you can tell me whether you've heard of any of them. I was taking delivery orders before the performance being like, who wants a Big Mac, Beth? They're like, shut the f**k up we're performing cats and you still manage to say macbeth all right theater rule number one never whistle uh-oh that can't be one i feel like there's performances where people whistle on stage Probably But those actors don't last long

Maybe That's not one I knew about at all And that is a rough one because as I say I was backstage, theatre hand, whatever I'm definitely Walking about like a builder Like Yeah, the show tunes are catchy

Yeah So that's a disaster. Right, number two, never say good luck. Instead, say break a leg. I did know this one, and I'd kind of forgotten about it, but it'd be interesting to know where the history of this one comes from. There's a lot of kind of popular but probably not true theories. According to Wikipedia, the most realistic one is that there is a phrase in Yiddish, which I won't try to pronounce, but it means success and blessing. And it's a way of saying good luck, which in German they turned into a pun, which in German means neck and leg bone break that's not funny

so I guess it's a fun little it sounds like the the Yiddish phrase for good luck but it means something completely different in German feels so broken yeah and then they translated it into English either way I think the point is that in a theater context it's probably less to do with the actual phrase itself and more the fact that there's not a superstition around saying good luck because you can really easily imagine where this one's come from right that you know you do enough theater productions where you know you say good luck to someone right before they go on stage trip over their shoelaces take the whole curtain down with them and kill someone in the front row and then forevermore at that theater

no one's ever allowed to say good luck again right and so they instead just they just just took another phrase instead i'm here for it i quite like break a leg you know it sounds it's a cool thing to say before someone does a performance. I think we should experiment some other ones, you know. Spank an ass. Snap an arm. Break a nose. You can kind of just say anything. Yeah, yeah.

Apparently, among professional dancers, instead of break a leg, they say merde. What does that mean? Shit. In French. Why? I don't know shit in spanish apparently they say mucha mierda what is that lots of shit why in portuguese muita merda uh lots of shit but in portuguese um i really didn't see that coming and even in Russia, sometimes instead of saying good luck,

they would say go to hell. Wow. I mean, that's pretty interesting in itself. It's not limited then to theater, but clearly in theaters, this is a quintessential one. So like all those years of performing in high school, my parents were actually cheering me on. Like when I asked them if they wanted to like come see me perform, go to hell.

We'd rather die. Are your parents Russian though? Well, they were, they were rushing out the door. Let me tell you that. They didn't want to stick around for their little boy's big debut. Yeah. That's actually really messed up. They said go to hell when you asked them to come to see you live.

But you're saying it's like, it's a, it's a Russian tradition. So like, yeah, we'd rather die. You live in, you mean nothing to us. You're from Northern Ireland. This means like, that means like, we do love you. I'm searching that in the Wikipedia page and that's not coming up for any country or tradition. Okay.

We'd rather die. Is that what they said? Yeah, but again, I think it's like a funny, playful thing, didn't you say? I know they said... Maybe they were at the back row and that's why I couldn't see them. Even though they had reserved seats in the front row.

Maybe they were at the back. They didn't want to couldn't see them. Even though they had reserved seats in the front row. Maybe they were at the back. They didn't want to put too much pressure on their little boy. That would be weird. Why would they buy seats? That's actually so f***ed up that they would buy seats. Take up space in the front row, which is the only row you can see. And then not go. I think it was, maybe that's a tradition.

Polish or something. Yeah, but your parents aren't Polish or Russian. They're multicultural people. They can take parts from other cultures. Have your parents ever eaten a hot dog before? Oh, that's weird. They have? I didn't know they were from New York City.

You can do shit from other places. I don't think hot dogs are even from New York. My parents love me is what I'm saying. And they made it pretty clear when they said, go to hell, you little demon. You're like, can you look up this one? Kill yourself. Because I got that nine times a day, whether I was in a theater production or not.

What culture is it polite to block your son's phone number? I'd like to know about that one. That'd be pretty interesting for me. I can tell by the tone of your voice, you don't think that they loved you anymore. Okay, what about one more rule of the theater? Never bringing a peacock feather on stage. Were people doing that a lot? I don't know.

That seems to me more like a vaudevillian kind of, you know, like dancing girls, you know, with the peacock feathers. Oh, yeah. I was thinking more like Yankee Doodle type performance with a feather in the cap, maybe. But yeah, you're right. Maybe more of a dancer vibe. And lastly, this one's mad. You always have to leave the dressing room left foot first. I did not know that one.

That is just so unnecessarily problematic. My God, how many times are you coming and going from the dressing room? So the implication here is that all of these things, while very, very different, all kind of have the same effect, which is they just create a negative kind of atmosphere where things will go wrong. That's right, which really makes it sound like performance is just some kind of tightrope walk where absolutely everything is about to go wrong and we are barely containing all the tragedy during a performance. But I suppose, again, you sort of know where this comes from

because, Rory, we just did a theatre tour. A lot can go wrong. I guess that's the point, is that when you're doing something live with lots and lots of people stuff is bound to go wrong and so i suppose people start to get in their heads about that things are doomed or cursed and that really you get a kind of negative mindset about performances oh yeah i mean even in our high school performances there was always stuff that was going wrong because it's just the nature of the art as you said it's a bit

of a tightrope walk i remember when we were performing uh les mis in high school you know for example a teacher handed me a gun with a blank in it and explained to me that the gun had a blank in it while i was about to go on stage i didn't hear a goddamn word they said so i'm holding a loaded rifle and halfway through the love scene that's taking place where there's a duet between the two protagonists you just hear in the middle of the song bang from the side of stage i fired that gun in a very tightly packed crowd rory has to go out on stage for his big song of the night and all he can hear is which wasn't my key, by the way,

worrying. My ears are so blown out even by the time I get on stage. There's people, you know, acting out the scene. There's talk of a revolution, brothers. We need to act now. I walk on.

Yeah, I heard it's getting crazy out there. They're like, Rory, you're f***ing Ha! Yeah My ears are blown Jean Valjean Where to next? What? To the barricade I think

What did he say? Did he ask if we were going to the barricade? Line! They're giving you the line you can't hear it? Line! they're giving you the line you can't hear it a lot can go wrong and will go wrong hey we were in a production of beauty and the beast together where rory was the beast i was not the beauty i paused there dramatically i was simply a townsperson i remember going out one night and one of my many background rules in that production was to be one of the times people at the beginning, you know, hello.

All the times people were wandering around, I'm leaning on a fence and, you know, singing along. And, you know, I've been instructed to as one of my little prompts is to like, oh, pretend you're leaning on a fence and chewing on an apple, you know. And they're like, just do it. You can have it in your hand, but you don't have to obviously eat it. Just act it. Sure, yeah. And then maybe a couple of nights in,

I'm like, you know what? I'm actually pretty hungry. So I'm going to take the apple out. I'm actually going to f*** with the script a little bit and actually take a bite. Really go method as this little background actor. Yeah. And in the middle of the song,

this is actually not a bit. I then, three seconds out on stage, lean on the fence, take a bite of the apple for real, choke instantly. And the song is going on and I'm like two hands on my throat. I assume the apple was completely made of wax.

You hadn't realized that even in four nights of performances. I really thought I was so f***ing smart. I was really hoping you were going to say that, you know, you had a simple rule. All you had to do was sing one line and pretend to eat an apple. But because you left the dressing room with your right foot first you fired an antique rifle on stage well there may be many different superstitions as we've outlined but few plays have macbeth's reputation for such levels of superstition the general idea is that much worse than any of these superstitions, just by saying the word Macbeth in a theatre is known to be extremely bad luck.

It's believed that if you say Macbeth outside of just during the actual performance of the show itself, you would invoke an ancient curse and bring misfortune to your production. Wow, okay. Now, Rory, have you met anyone who believed this? Have you talked to anyone about this? I probably have met a few individuals who even lightheartedly will kind of go along with these superstitions. But I don't think I've ever met anyone who kind of religiously believes in them. Yeah, I know what you mean. You know, whilst I haven't worked in a theater for any length of

time i did work in an audiobook studio in london which meant that i was coming into contact with actors and theater actors pretty much every day you know a few motherfuckers with scarves were walking around if you know what i mean and i do remember some conversations around this you know this isn't a superstition that like it's not like throwing salt over your shoulder where like no one really actually believes this anymore um people there are some people small group who really don't like saying it yeah even if it's just out of habit so like i said at the start yes the 1937 production at the old vic was cursed but that is far from the only time a production of this play has been affected. How about we try a production over 400 years ago?

Whoa! That's right, this is the play's first ever public performance, 400 years ago. It was a private performance for King James I at Hampton Court Palace. Holy shit! This was so long ago that Shakespeare himself had to stand in for the actor playing Lady Macbeth because the original actor, Hal Berridge, had come down with a sudden illness before the performance and would die soon after it. Wow.

Begging the question, was Macbeth cursed from his very first day? Yeah, that's cool. Shout out to Shakespeare for, you know, hopping in the role of Lady Macbeth cursed from its very first day. Yeah, that's cool. Shout out to Shakespeare for, you know, hopping in the role of Lady Macbeth. That's a hard one. Some hard shoes to fill. It really is. You do forget that, right?

Back then, women didn't perform. Even men played the role of women in theatre. And when the play made its European debut a few years later in Amsterdam, tragedy struck again. A prop dagger was accidentally swapped for a real dagger during Macbeth and King Duncan's fight in Act 2. And the actor playing Duncan was murdered on stage for real.

That wasn't an accident. Huh? That was some drama between the actors. No one should struggle to tell the difference between a prop knife and a real knife and then continue to actually stab someone once they've figured it out. I don't know if you remember what it's like being on stage.

It's smoky. It's dark. Whoa, people are passing knives around, left, right, and center. They shouldn't be. So, you know, someone puts a knife in your hand you just let it rip brother you've choked on so many apples you're borderline delirious at this point the oxygen deficiency alone that would be harrowing to see on stage wouldn't it that feels suspicious

i feel like you're not getting away with that one with the police if they're like interrogating you and it's like why did you what what happened here's like well i thought it was a fake knife even though it kind of is obviously made of metal looks nothing like the original when i stabbed him he screamed and said stop it's real it's real and i kept going sure it's like yeah you know there's some rumors going around that he's sleeping with your wife or oh no are there are there really he wouldn't do that. He wouldn't do that. Well, he can't now anymore. Because he's dead. Which is nice. Because he got what he deserved, didn't he?

And he was a little lying cheat who kept eating my sandwich at lunch. I'd handcuff him. Handcuff him. Well, Rory, you might be onto something. Because whilst that sounds like an insane one-off event, it unfortunately wasn't. Because in the 1670s at a performance in London, you guessed it, a real sword found its way into the prop box,

and the actor playing Macbeth was stabbed through the eye and killed on stage during Act 5's duel. What? Yeah. What prop weapon would have allowed them to put a sword through his eye? Yeah, it requires a certain amount of force, doesn't it? Yeah, what was the prop weapon? A f***ing balloon sword? Like, yeah, because we're not dealing with those kind of like kids knives that retract when you hit them.

Yeah. Yeah, like I would have thought even a prop would have been pretty big and hefty, right? I also apparently don't remember what happens in macbeth i didn't realize that they were kind of jedi versus sith lord showdowns in the finale i thought it was a lot more chill and kind of was about kind of kings and murder and sabotage it was like game of thrones level just kind of dialogue throughout yeah um yeah i think this is part of the problem which we kind of forget now is that maybe this is less likely to occur today because today the actors before and after uh the performance are you know on their phones driving cars but when we wind the clock back 400 years

there was a lot of swords kicking around oh that's true yeah so you know swords really were just lining tables people were just hey hold my dagger for a second i need to go to the toilet um so you know no one was keeping track of these weapons that's true and only 30 years later in 1703 macbeth was scheduled to be revived for English audiences when on opening night. A bit like this week, Rory, right here in the studio, the storm of the century wreaked havoc across England, killing 1,500 sailors. Is it a coincidence that the night that Macbeth returns to English stages, England is destroyed by a storm? It is a little weird now that you mention it that we are doing an episode on Macbeth and there is literally a country-wide storm

battering our hometown. And as soon as the story began and you started mentioning Macbeth, one of our cameras just shut down. It's so true. And refused to turn back on because the battery was fried. This is the elephant in the room, Roy.

Have I cursed me and you and maybe this podcast by choosing to do this story? Yeah, really worried if you have because I think your afternoon involves watching TV in your pajamas and I have to get on a flight back home. I took out a life insurance policy against you, brother. Fantastic. Earlier today. And I kept pretty quiet life insurance policy against you, brother. Fantastic. Earlier today.

And I kept pretty quiet about the old Macbeth episode. Now why don't you check out this prop dagger real quick. Check it out real close. I started swinging at you. You're like, you're trying to kill me. Even if it was a prop,

this would hurt. I'm possessed. We're not quite done talking about this curse and maybe in the next half of this episode we're going to see whether me and rory fall victim to it do we stub our toe or does this house crash down around us crushing us to bits uh i don't know we'll have to tune in and find out after a couple of words from today's sponsor rory r! Rory! I'm losing my voice!

Yeah, chill out. Calm down. We've seen countless curses before. So far, how is this one looking to you? Is this a textbook paranormal curse in your eyes? More or less, you know, saying something, uttering something, doing something causes a situation that it feels like things are most likely going to go wrong in some form. I'm not going to complain about this too much because any kind of problem like this means more work and more employment for people who work in the world of the paranormal. Right.

Which is great because, you know, it's slim pickings out there. Unless you're being called for an exorcism or a seance or to deal with some ghosts or paranormal activity, there ain't that much work out there in the world for a paranormal investigator. So if we can actually fan the flames a little bit and get more people to believe that this is a real problem, it means more people might hire individuals like Kit and Rory to be part of the staff and the crew for these productions i see what you're saying so we actually i never thought about this before we want more curses more cursed objects to end up in museums we want more cursed plays to go on stage because that means suddenly you know you think a hundred years ago brother there was such thing as a health and safety officer no well today let's get to the stage where these movies and theater productions are so unionized you need a paranormal consultant on every single set absolutely yeah you know so that your leading man can't even take a shit without us going in and clearing the space

with sage beforehand the thing is i am of course curtailing this list of things that happened to productions of Macbeth very, very short. The tragedy has never stopped. By the 18th and 19th century, this show was commonly called MacDeath. There were stabbings, fires, collapsing sets. Every show only reaffirmed

that it was indeed cursed. Even when it went overseas, there was disaster. When it opened in New Even when it went overseas, there was disaster. When it opened in New York City in 1849, there was a riot in the street killing 22 people. A lot of this feels like it's not the fault of the production. How do you mean? Just riots and storms?

Well, no, this riot, sorry, I wasn't specific enough. I know where you're going because the storm, fair enough, that could be an act of God. The riot was with the audience of Macbeth. Oh, okay. The audience members went out into the street and started killing each other. They found a box of real daggers and they actually lost it. But like with any curse, the key to understanding what's going on lies in why.

Why would Macbeth be cursed? You know, because as we say, lots of other famous curses around the world, usually if there's a cursed diamond, it's because a guy killed a bunch of people to get the diamond. Or if it's Tutankhamen, people raided his tomb,

which he didn't want to happen, and he placed a protective seal on the tomb, and that's why his stuff is cursed. Really? There is only one leading theory for why Macbeth is cursed and it has its roots in witchcraft. Oh, I wasn't expecting that today. Well, because if you've seen a production of Macbeth

or read it at school, you'll know that it's very famous for its depiction of witches. Yeah, the three witches that help him throughout the performance which is something i could really do with in my life i feel like i don't have any cheerleaders um not even my parents or my wife or my kid are really kind of wishing me any success anymore god knows rory's parents are telling him to jump off a cliff whenever he has something big coming up. But three witches in your corner helping you navigate life? Oh, yeah.

Yeah. You know, people always think that what guys want is, you know, fast cars, expensive watches, you know, exotic trips and luxurious holidays around the world. What every guy wants is three witches that kind of just help him now and again and tell him what to do by mixing potions in a big pot. Right. That's it. Rory having these witches as his counsel, totally wasted. He's like FaceTiming them.

They're like, oh God, not again. Answer the FaceTime call. He's like, hey, what's up? Yeah, we're really busy. What is it? Yeah, I'm just playing Fortnite. Where should I drop? That's not what we help with.

Come on. I haven't won a game all night. I got a soft 18 on Blackjack. Should I stick or what do you think? Should I get hit? They're like, we could make you king of worlds. If you want we kind of know

how to do it you're completely obsessed with gambling that seems like a lot of work you guys can you make like a potion

that just gets me f***ed up that doesn't make me like see things or anything but just gets me like kind of buzzed here's a bottle of whiskey

it's not magic damn you guys are great alright I'll call you later don't please don't I'm like guys I need some advice I'm feeling a little drunk I want to know Damn, you guys are great. All right, I'll call you later. Don't, please. I'm like, guys, I need some advice.

I'm feeling a little drunk. I want to know if I should text my ex tonight. It's like, well, seeing as your ex is one of us, we're going to say no. All right, just tell her I say hi, though. And then I'm thinking about her. We won't. We won't. Just put her on.

Just put her on. We're hanging up. We're hanging up. Actually, can you two guys stay on the phone Claire can you leave for a second It's totally not about you at all Claire Guys can you make like a f***ing love potion Or something

I made a huge mistake and I need her back No we can't We can't trick a witch with her own magic God damn it What's the point you guys Just the whiskey then So you know it's whiskey We can't trick a witch with her own magic. God damn it. What's the point, you guys? Just the whiskey then. So you know it's whiskey?

You know, the whole depiction of witches seems like very cool and mythological today. Again, it's like the sword thing. You've got to remember that back then, this was a lot closer to real life than it is today. Back then, this was probably pretty genuinely terrifying for audiences. today. Back then, this was probably pretty genuinely terrifying for audiences, hence probably a bit more like uneasiness about witches turning up in a play. Right, they're kind of real villains to these people. You know, at the beginning of Macbeth, there are these three prophesying witches written into the play, and it's believed that Shakespeare's witch dialogue is so accurate that he somehow accidentally wrote real dangerous spells and black magic into Macbeth. Oh, damn. I thought you were going to say the depiction of these witches was so offensive that real witches cursed the show. Right, right, right. Well, I mean,

that probably is one of the theories, but at least I think the leading one is that he invoked black magic by writing it into the script at all. A lot can go wrong if you're doing a performance that involves witches. That's why if we're ever doing stories that involve witches or writing anything that involves witches. They're always absolutely gorgeous. Absolutely. They're tens, basically supermodels in cloaks. Okay. Because you've got to

stay on their good side. Right. Yeah, they cast spells, but it's always for good reasons. Even when they do bad things like eat children. It's like, maybe that kid

was a little piece of shit. You know, I'm sure they had a good reason to do it because the whole point is if you're going to include them, you don't want to piss off the witches.

Yes, they're a powerful lobby. bit like the irish in america right but rory we found out allegedly the reason why there is this curse but the good news is supposedly there is a way of cleansing oneself of this curse to survive it. Okay, this is what we need. We do have some sage here in the studio that we could burn that I got from Salem, Massachusetts. So if needs be, we could do that right now if you think that we're cursed. Or are you implying that there is an actual easier way to do it? I actually don't want to cleanse us

because I want to see if something happens to you later today just because that would be great evidence and I might get a double yes in my case for that. I actually don't want to cleanse us because I want to see if something happens to you later today, just because that would be great evidence and I might get a double yes in my case for that. Okay, I might cleanse myself then. No, no, no, no, no, no. You can stay cursed and if anything happens to you, that's cool, right? That still works? I'm just going to take this sage and I'm going to throw it down the toilet. Because I can't have you f***ing this up for me. This is a big moment and you're going down.

There are allegedly a number of cleansing rituals but generally they advise leaving the room the dressing room or the entire theatre itself then spinning around three times to your right, then you spit on the

ground or say a bunch of curse words as you're spinning and finally you must quote a line from one of shakespeare's other masterpieces hamlet you read the protective spell thrice around the circle bound evil sinking to the ground this is like a video game cheat code in real life and then you have unlimited weapons i will say and... And flying cars. I will say, worryingly, it also says you then have to be invited back into the theater rather than just walking in. So it sounds as if a slight side effect of this cleansing ritual might be you are a vampire now. Yeah, that's the only kind of time we see that pop up in a lot of paranormal cases.

But yes, I like that analogy. This is a kind of up, down, up, down, lot of paranormal cases uh but yes i like that analogy this is a kind of up down up down left right left right ab sort of cheat code yeah which i do like i mean it makes sense that if you are uttering some of shakespeare's curses you then take one of his kind of blessings from another play and say that instead okay i'm here for it but rory we've talked a lot about the most historical 400-year-old interactions with the supposed Curse of Macbeth. We've talked about some of the more recent ones as recently as the 30s.

But actually, there is a story that involves the Curse of Macbeth, which is much, much, I promise, much more recent than you could possibly imagine. Oh my god, I can't believe it's still happening. This is a theory. It's March 27th, 2022. Will Smith has just slapped Chris Rock on the face.

Okay. Is that part of the curse or is that just a cultural touch point? We all saw it echo around the earth it took over the news and the timeline and the zeitgeist for days people couldn't believe what they were seeing that if if you somehow live under a rock chris rock was hosting the oscars in 2022 and he made a joke about will smith's wife jada. Will lost it, jumped up on stage and smacked him in the face. Yeah. It was pretty much the most dramatic thing to ever happen at the Oscars and was widely condemned and probably cost Will Smith a lot of money in his career and his reputation, leaving many around the world to wonder how and why did that just happen? And before looking into the

story, I had no idea this happened and I almost guarantee you have no idea this happened too, Rory. If we look at the transcript of just moments before this went down at the Oscar, Chris Rock was talking to Denzel Washington from the stage. Denzel had just starred in a joel cohen adaptation of you know what that very year chris rock said macbeth loved it wow and then what happened moments later after saying the cursed word the show came crashing down will smith jumps up smacks the out of him roy what i'm saying is will smith said keep my wife's name out your mouth. Should Chris Rock have also kept Macbeth out

of his mouth? I mean, by the sounds of things, we were lucky that there were no prop daggers floating around the party that night. Things could have got a lot more intense. Can you imagine Will Smith jumping up on stage with a two-handed plus three broadsword?

He's got a Zweihander. Where'd he get that? His eyes have gone completely black. Glowing like a Dark Souls villain. Wow. I mean, that is kind of human action, I will say. It would be a little bit more suspicious if he said macbeth and then the lights went out or as you said kind of scaffolding or something fell from the rafters

i think a guy just slapping another guy is kind of i don't know if we can chalk that one up to the curse it is a great point as i say if will smith had even gone kind of sleeper cell mode and just gone limp like a zombie and then attacked him we might be saying this was a bit more paranormal but maybe that one is a little bit of a stretch but rory needless to say there's been many more accounts of what's gone on with this play and we know we have an idea of why it's cursed what are you thinking on the topic of the curse of macbeth i really like it and it's cool to have a curse like this has been around for such a long time. You know, because usually if we're investigating a cursed item, the curse just kind of follows the item.

And it's not that complicated. You know, to have something like this that spans so many years has taken place in so many different areas. It's really cool. And it's also got a decent explanation you know the witch is being so accurate that just reciting the lines in rehearsals kind of activates this kind of paranormal bubble that means ill fate will befall everyone in its vicinity if it's activated by the word macbeth it'd be good to know how far that kind of stretches. Like if we just, because we both read Macbeth in high school. Yes. You know, it was part of the chosen text

that you would read the books, the literature. At some point we, or the children in our class, did read the lines of the witches out loud while we were going through the book we also said the name of the book a lot so does that still activate the curse or is it the fact that that isn't a performance mean that the curse doesn't take effect yeah it's an excellent point and it probably goes to prove that just why it's really only actors who give a shit about this yeah which on some level doesn't really make sense because yes as you say probably statistically more people more children around the world study this text and read it every day and talk about it openly than actors read it and perform it because

there's not that many professional actors in the world but it's only actors who really care about this and it seems to only really have an effect on performances so that's a bit odd it's only actors who really care about this. And it seems to only really have an effect on performances. So that's a bit odd. It's a bit odd that it's I mean, maybe that's it. Maybe the witch's curse. It's only punishing actors for depicting witches in the way that they are. But it is suspicious the limitations of that curse. of that curse yeah you know that kind of then makes it feel like okay well maybe a bigger part of this than we think is the fact that this is also happening alongside a performance where a hundred things could go wrong at any moment so things were already kind of on the edge and the curse tips it over the side whereas if you're a kid in high school reading macbeth reading the words of the witches what's the words happen? You shit yourself in class? You ask out the girl and she turns you down in front of all your buddies? Yeah, I told you those things in confidence, bro.

My teenage years were pretty cursed. It's a good point, and it probably is worth, at the end of our investigation, pointing out the more sort of rational reasons for why these things might have happened. Generally speaking, yes yes in 400 years of productions of a play things are going to go wrong particularly in historical productions that will have let's face it rickety ass stage design and bad safety protocols yeah there is also the point to be reckoned with that all this talk of the curse has been tremendous marketing for this theater production over the years.

We know from being in this business ourselves that even something as dangerous as a curse, there's a fine line between people being scared of that and people being massively intrigued and wanting to pay money to go see it. Yeah. And it kind of works for a show like Macbeth. to pay money to go see it yeah and it kind of works for a show like mcbeth the curse and that kind of the ancient side to this performance in this show it all is wrapped nicely together thematically whereas like hey you should go and see uh the lion king last year the guy who played simba got electrocuted and died on stage this is like a performance company going our version of the lion king is so convincing that a zookeeper from nearby actually tranked the lead actor to death because he thought he was a wild beast it was halfway through hakuna matata

when the zoo worker stood up and said, I've let this go on long enough and shot a dart into the actor's neck. They're like, that's not a feral male African lion. That's Daniel Day-Lewis. He went so method that they had to put him in the back of a veterinary truck. You just knocked out Andy Serkis. It doesn't make the Lion King seem more real or engaging.

Yeah. Seems like maybe you shouldn't be performing that show anymore. It sounds like the people running it are unreputable and we shouldn't go to that room. It is an excellent point. Rory, at the end of every episode

of This Paranormal Life, we have to decide whether your case is paranormal or not with a yes or a no. Let's just do it. In the case of the Kirsten Macbeth, what are you thinking? Hey, I think this is a great case. And I guess we can't say we don't have enough evidence because the performance has been happening for many years and we've seen it gone wrong many, many times. Unfortunately, as we both said, as people who have worked on stage before,

it's actually more uncommon when nothing goes wrong in a stage performance. So we can't necessarily say that any of the events in today's story are kind of paranormal or out of the ordinary.

So it's a tough one for me, but I think it's going to be a no today i'm just not convinced about this curse well said rory it's uh it is the perennial problem with curses this is why i hate covering them i i love it because they're fascinating but i hate coming to conclusions on curse episodes because curses are impossibly vague impossibly hard to pin down uh on cause and effect and cause and effect. And cause and effect is what we need to know. If a cryptid shows up and takes a shit in your doorstep,

we need to be able to prove that that was Bigfoot. But with curses, it's just all a bit like, eh, this thing happened once and that's why this thing happened. And it's like, well, is that why? And that's why I'm going to have to give it a no today too. We have done some great ones, as you said. The curse of Tootin Common and Carter breaking into the tomb. We did a great one recently on Valentino's cursed ring, the tiger's eye, where ill fate befell anyone

who kind of came in contact or wore this ring. But like a lot of these situations, it's really like one or two mysterious events. And then a lot of people dying due to like negligence or just the fact that the events are taking place at a time where people didn't live that long. So it's always a little bit of a tricky situation. I guess now we've come to this conclusion, you know, I am going to make one last big swing for evidence. And Rory's got a flight to catch. And I am going to try and curse his ass.

So, Macbeth! Macbeth, Macbeth, Macbeth. No, no, no, no, no. Maca, maca, maca, maca, maca, maca, maca, maca, maca. Hey, I'd like a large Macbeth with fries, please. I don't like any of this. Gah, gah, gah, gah. What was the cheat code?

Macbethington. That I can do up, down, spin around, say some witchy shit? I'm going to delete it from my text so you can't read it. Jesus. Yeah, I don't know anymore. I'm just going to hold on to the sage before you flush the rest of it down the toilet yeah just gonna hold on to this real tight did you know macbeth is short for macklemore bethington

uh that is the story of the curse of macbeth i hope you've enjoyed this uh if you are a theater major at college in america or you're a theatre studies student here in the UK, sorry, probably butchered some aspect of this and you probably know loads about it. But if you've had your own experiences with the Scottish play, send it on in to thisparanormallifepodcast at gmail.com. This smells good. I've never smelt sage before, like actual burning sage. It's actually really good. Right, yeah. As soon as I handed it to you to smell, I was like, he's going to flush it down the toilet.

I shouldn't have given him the sage. Damn it. Let me smell that sage for a second. Yeah, throw it out the window. I'm losing my evidence before my very eyes. And a thank you to Ewan Fryers for helping research that episode. If you have enjoyed this episode and you want to hear more from this podcast, check out the other 300 episodes or more in our back catalogue. But you can also see some behind the scenes juicy

content over at patreon.com forward slash this paranormal life. Maybe you've listened through our whole back catalogue of episodes. There is a ton more over at Patreon for as little as five bucks. You can support this show, making it possible to make in future and also get

a ton of episodes in return. I'm also doing a little casting call right now to find my three witches.

As I said, I think it's evidently very clear from listening to 300 episodes of this podcast. I said, I think it's evidently very clear from listening to 300 episodes of this podcast, I don't make good life choices. Right. And I need a team of mystics and psychics and people with magical abilities

to help guide me on my journey moving forward. Expect drunk calls very late at night. That is going to be part of the job, unfortunately. But if you think that you're someone that would be interested in this role, kind of just need two witches because I can't fire Claire anymore because that would obviously look like

there's some sort of personal bias in there. So she is going to stick around, but I do need two witches. Get in touch if you think that you can make that happen. If you can make me luckier or just steer me in the right direction, that would be great. Thank you. I don't think you need witches.

I think you need friends. I think you need a couple of friends that you just kind of, that's what normal people do. They call when they need advice. Sure. Same kind of thing though, isn't it? Like witches, friends. No. Goblins, wizards.

They're all kind of rolled up into something that I only need when I'm in a bad place right okay maybe you do need a witch because you're a bad person and it sounds like you're going to use these friends uh like i say all those episodes available right now along with some very cool other rewards at patreon.com forward slash this paranormal life one of those is to get a shout out at the end of an episode. Let's get into those right now. Special thank you to Ben Tony. Ben Tony is great if you want anything phony. If you want a phony ID, phony passport, a phony alibi, you know? Ben will be like, hey, yeah, he was with me all night.

Oh, it sounds like a complete crook. Do we want this kind of guy in the commune? He's not a crook. He's a legitimate businessman who deals in criminal activity. Does that make him a criminal? It actually does, yeah. Oh, shit. Only crooks call themselves legitimate businessmen.

Thank you also to Brandon Ramirez. Random Brandon Ramirez. Random Brandon Ramirez. He is insanely random. Like sometimes Brandon will just be like, like just make a, like, like make a crazy noise. He makes like weird noises sometimes. Sometimes he'll just like pull out a little flick knife

and be like, grab me a wallet. Well, that one's a little more dangerous than the first one then that's that sounds like if you don't give him the wallet sometimes he'll be like like cut you you know he's a thief he's a criminal he's a yeah no no you don't get it it's all part of his thing it's all part of his thing like like yeah yeah i know i've heard the noise, yeah, the first time. Sometimes he goes cha-ching when he sees you. Yeah, he stabbed me. Yeah, he did. He did.

Thanks to Amanda Romano. Amanda Romano's looking for a man to romanso. Ah! On the hunt for love, you know. I'm looking in all the wrong places. We're talking ditches, trenches, holes, hovels, caves. You know, Amanda, try a bar or an app. Amanda, I'm going to throw something out here.

Maybe what you need isn't a man at all, but a cryptid. That's right. I am a big fan of people getting into relationships with cryptids. I mean, the lizard man, for example, he's a buff guy. He's a lot of time free because he lives in a swamp and no one wants to talk to him. Right.

Mothman, he is caked up. Have you seen this statue? There's something to think about, Amanda. Food for thought. Cake for thought, actually. Thanks also to Stephen Haugen. Stephen, how can you afford to Stephen Haugen. Stephen, how can you afford to give us

so much money? How can you afford it? I really do need to know, because this month alone he gave us, I'm just checking the numbers here, $42,000. Holy Christ! And I'm sure it is all, I'm sure you're a legitimate businessman,

like all of our listeners. But how can you afford it? I think we should know before we contact the police. Your generosity knows no bounds. And thank God, you know, that is just a one-off kind of random thing, because that would be hard to explain to the authorities. Anyway, thanks also to, oh Jesus, Michael Haugen. Michael Haugen as well?

Matt, I'm just checking the numbers here. 93,000. Oh God. This week. All right, we need to, yeah, we need to declare this. We need to, Michael, we need to set up a call and figure out what's going on here. I don't know if this is an accident.

Are you, do we owe you now? How can you expect me to sit here and take this? This is money that needs to be declared. Now, I'll say if it is money achieved through crime and you do need some papers that look pretty legit, I know a man that can help you. He can kind of create a pretty authentic looking copy. Thank you, Stephen. Thank you, Stephen.

Thank you, Michael. Thank you to everyone we've shouted out this week. We'll be back with more from next week. Rory, another double no under our belts, annoyingly,

but as investigators we live in hope. We're going to fight another day unless the curse takes on your plane later. Yeah, stop bringing that up. In which case,

hopefully, would be great evidence. We'll be back next week with a brand new that up. In which case, hopefully would be great evidence, we'll be back next week with a brand new paranormal tale. Bye-bye, folks. Ciao!