This Paranormal Life - #359 Remote Viewing - Can Psychics See the Dark Side of Moon?

Episode Date: March 19, 2024

Imagine you could see anything on earth from the comfort of your sofa, what would you look at? Fair enough in our modern world of Ring doorbells and drones this is slightly less strange, but for most ...of human history this was a God-like ability up there with transforming water into wine and remaining calm in traffic jams. Crucially during the cold war the US government began to take this paranormal ability, known as Remote Viewing, very seriously indeed. With shady secrets, military bunkers, and piles of redacted dossiers, this is some of the most fascinating history in the paranormal world. Time for Kit and Rory to investigate.Follow us on Twitter, Instagram, and YouTubeJoin our Secret Society Facebook CommunitySupport us on Patreon.com/ThisParanormalLife to get access to weekly bonus episodes!Buy Official TPL Merch! - thisparanormallife.com/storeIntro music by www.purple-planet.comEdited by Philip Shacklady Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Starting point is 00:00:00 Is it possible to teleport thoughts? How far would I get inside the Pentagon with a clipboard and a crisp black suit? Answers to these questions and more on this episode of This Paranormal Life! Hey and welcome back to This Paranormal Life. This is the weekly comedy podcast where every Tuesday we dive into a different paranormal tale and decide by the end of the episode whether it's truly paranormal or not. As always, you're joined by me, Kit Greer-Molvena, and this guy sitting across from me, Mr. Rory Powers. How you doing, Rory? I'm doing great, Kit.
Starting point is 00:00:33 Some very interesting questions right off the bat. Is it possible to, what did you say, project thoughts into somebody's mind? No less. That would be a very interesting one because if that is possible, I would like to know who's been transmitting the thoughts into my mind. Because they got some explaining to do. I want to tie him to a chair
Starting point is 00:00:53 and make them pay. Is he in the bushes in my garden? He must be close because the thoughts are getting pretty strong sometimes, you know? And he's not putting
Starting point is 00:01:02 anything good in there like eat a salad or go for a run. He's putting some really interesting thoughts in there like eat a salad or go for a run he's putting some really interesting thoughts in there like do we have to pay taxes well what's the worst case scenario if i don't pay my taxes yeah questions that can only lead down a dark path why do i need car insurance if everyone else has car insurance they've got it covered yeah it's definitely not not how it works as long as you know that it seems to be that you know that these thoughts are a problem why is it wrong to
Starting point is 00:01:30 eat elephant meat what's so special about elephants okay i think we need to uh i think we need to i would agree we need to figure out the source of these yeah and uh i'm thinking give you a lobotomy i think sort of drill just a few centimeters into your skull and kind of try and stop them at the source, if you know what I mean. Drilling into the skull is actually how I killed a lot of the elephants. Okay, all right. Fun fact for you.
Starting point is 00:01:56 Well, believe it or not, Rory's illustrious career as a poacher in Kenya is not what we're here to talk about today. I only poach eggs. All right, I want to clarify. That was a joke at here to talk about today. I only poach eggs. All right, I want to clarify. That was a joke at the start of the podcast. I only poach eggs. I don't kill endangered species.
Starting point is 00:02:12 Sure. The voice in my head is telling me to clarify that. We are, of course, here to talk about the paranormal. And boy, Rory, do I have a crazy story for you. You are not long off disembarking a flight from Tokyo and you are getting an insane paranormal case straight to the dome
Starting point is 00:02:31 the dome-io I'm dealing a little bit with a jet lag right now I believe it's 2 or 3am Tokyo time but that just means I'm going to tap into that psycho energy where you really haven't had enough sleep, your brain's not really working, I'm going to tap into that psycho energy Where you really haven't had enough sleep Your brain's not really working
Starting point is 00:02:47 I'm still experiencing thoughts from the future Because technically my mind is still nine hours ahead You need to meditate You have no control over the information passing through your skull This is insane Is it hot in here? I think I have a fever I think I'm coming down with a cold well rest
Starting point is 00:03:06 assured rory um i mean i have to say things are probably going to get a little bit more complicated as we go on through this case uh but don't worry i'm in the hot seat bringing you the story today so you can let your brain get scrambled it might even let me get an easier double yes at the end of today's case you know here on TPL we all love paranormal stories, but there's nothing that me and Rory love more than shady government experiments, redacted dossiers, elephant meat, but no, I'm vegan,
Starting point is 00:03:39 paranormal abilities. Are you ready to dive in to an investigation full of all three, not the elephant bit? Okay. Yes. I'm so excited. You just said all my favorite words, brother. Aside from the elephant one. I'm very excited to dive into today's story. This sounds like a juicy one. Not the elephant meat again. We're going to get into all of that Right after a couple words from today's sponsors And a reminder That every episode of This Paranormal Life All of them from 2017 through to today
Starting point is 00:04:12 Are available right now Ad free on patreon.com Forward slash This Paranormal Life Today's story begins inside an elevator Descending deep down, level after level, underground. Our protagonist, Ingo Swann, has a sack over his head, and it's itching his nose. This way, Mr. Swann.
Starting point is 00:04:38 What had been an already eventful day in spring 1975, was about to get even more interesting. After being woken up by a call at 3am that morning, Ingo had been asked by the caller, who described themselves as a US government agent, to meet later that day. Ingo travelled from New York to the Smithsonian Institute in Washington DC for midday and waited patiently at the agreed location. Standing at the Rotunda entrance hall, Ingo was approached by two smartly dressed men in sunglasses and black suits. These men, who he would later describe as the Twins, handed Ingo a series of cards with various directions and questions. The twins stayed completely silent
Starting point is 00:05:26 until they checked him over for a wire. But when they did speak, it wasn't much. You will be transported in a helicopter. For security, you will be blindfolded. Do you understand? They walked into a blacked-out car, opened the door for him, put a sack over his head,
Starting point is 00:05:44 and put him in the backseat. This story is moving very quickly. Who is this man? What's his name? Ingo Swann. Ingo Swann? He sounds like he's in the Beatles. Why are the police kidnapping a man?
Starting point is 00:05:58 He was the rhythm guitarist. He was, but he got kicked out before they kind of hit it big, for sure. There wasn't room for a Ringo and an Ingo. Ringo Starr and Ingo Swann, the twins who were in the Beatles before one of them was kidnapped by the American government. And listen, I know it sounds like a made-up name, but Rory, brother, I wouldn't do that to you.
Starting point is 00:06:22 I wouldn't do that to the listeners. Okay. This is a real person? This is a real person? This is a real person? Ingo Starr. You couldn't remember the name? Whatever I said. Whatever I said the first time.
Starting point is 00:06:32 Igloo Penguin. He's real. One helicopter ride from an undisclosed location later, we're back in the elevator. As the lift doors open, the bag in his head is finally removed and he finds himself in an underground government facility. A stranger approaches and introduces himself simply as Mr. Axelrod.
Starting point is 00:06:54 He ushers him into an office. To calm his nerves, Axelrod offers him a cigar while he explains what the hell he's doing there. I... we... need your services. For what? What's the job? We'll get to that. First, I need your commitment. You will go off-grid, no contact with the outside world for six days
Starting point is 00:07:19 and ten years of silence on the work you conduct. Remuneration is 1,500 US dollars per day. He's getting paid $1,500 a day for this project? Which in the 1975, I mean, I can only imagine that's Jeff Bezos money. Yeah. That's long money. Big time money. That's the big leak.
Starting point is 00:07:41 Let me find out. $1,500. Woo! That is $8 hundred dollars a day wow today money wow yeah jesus this was back in the 70s where a car cost a nickel and a coke cost a wink and a smile things are a lot more affordable you could get a haircut for a man's word. It was very simple times. You see, Rory Swan had been working for the government already. He'd been carrying out experiments and studies that utilised his very unique abilities, talents that are the subject of today's investigation.
Starting point is 00:08:23 You see, many today consider Ingo Swan the father of today's investigation. You see, many today consider Ingo Swann the father of modern remote viewing. He had been working for the US government for a few years now, but this secret underground facility and his work with Mr. Axelrod is his most dramatic chapter in the history of remote viewing. Wow. Okay, so getting the bag put on his head, the helicopter ride, the secret elevator ride into the caverns of the earth, that's just going to work.
Starting point is 00:08:52 That's the daily commute for this guy. Right. It wasn't actually that scary an experience. Right. You know, he gets up in the morning, he's like, I'm not even going to comb my hair because the bag's going on. I'm going to sleep in the bag. It just makes it quicker to get up in the morning
Starting point is 00:09:05 if I bag myself now, right? Honestly, if they just have a corner, I could put a futon in the government facility. I will just stop paying rent on my apartment. It's really a buzzkill to do that twice a day, every day. Yeah, if you tell me where the base is, I'll just get an Airbnb, like next door. It's fine.
Starting point is 00:09:23 Rory Magic Powers, what do you know about remote viewing? I don't know, Kit. Why don't you take a little glance behind me at the declassified CIA documents about the Gateway Project that were released through a Freedom of Information Act that I printed out and put on the f***ing walls.
Starting point is 00:09:43 Sorry. Rory, I don't think whenever the CIA released those documents to the public, they were anticipating Rory to put them on his bedroom wall like it's a poster for the 1975. Yeah, yeah. You want to know what I know and think about remote viewing? I'll tell you right now, brother. I'm not getting anything.
Starting point is 00:10:06 I'm beaming it into you. Yeah, I'm not getting anything I'm beaming it into you Yeah I'm not getting it Like a laser Are you getting it yet? Oh hold on Holy shit this is insane I'm getting Rory's telling me that He's a bitch
Starting point is 00:10:17 Nope didn't say that That he That he's bitch made No that's I've never used that phrase before in my life Pretty honest of you I think you're the only one I've ever heard say that before. That you have lied about pretty much every piece of evidence you've ever given.
Starting point is 00:10:32 Not true. On this paranormal life. Not true. And that your penis is about half the size you've been letting on for most of your life at this point. Well, that would still make it six inches, so that's fine. on for most of your life at this point well that would still make it six inches so that's fine to answer your question kit i know quite a decent chunk about remote viewing about astral projection and some of the crazy shit that the government has dabbled in over the last god dare i say hundred years it sounds like i've asked the right person me and roy are on a similar page here probably
Starting point is 00:11:05 actually have gone into this knowing a bit more than i did about remote viewing i was aware a little bit of the government's kind of shady history with this practice hey you want some evidence for today's case i'll grab you some here we go there's a document about an astral projection and the consciousness energy grid i're drunk I actually drew that one myself I was gonna this is inevitable this is just a drawing that's hand drawn
Starting point is 00:11:29 and that's but that's a recreation of an actual document here we go department of the army declassified document I don't want to be crass but you've drawn a vagina
Starting point is 00:11:40 on this diagram of astral projection that's not a vagina that's a cosmic egg and it says galactic north at the top of it on this diagram of astral projection. That's not a vagina. That's a cosmic egg. And it says galactic north at the top of it. This is nonsense. There's a diagram of a wave, like in physics,
Starting point is 00:11:57 and at the top it says absolute infinity. This is not science. That's classified information. That's some of my workings that, yeah, you weren't maybe supposed to see some of these i mean i don't want to tear apart the wall of conspiracies behind rory but there is at least one diagram of a beyblade behind him all right don't look at that don't look i don't think that's a time machine i think that's a beyblade i can see a ripcord all right i would say that rory maybe there's a little bit more than the average person um yeah i would say our listeners at home have probably only vaguely
Starting point is 00:12:29 heard of this but don't know much remote viewing is the ability to accurately perceive a location without ever having been there physically a remote viewer is said to be able to describe the features and specifics of a chosen area without ever having visited and without any prior knowledge the practice is pretty linked to clairvoyance we've talked a lot about those kind of general suite of paranormal abilities right clairvoyance um future reading and there's so many different ways that you can do that but in this case rather than being able to see the future a remote viewer can see the environment as it is right now in the present. Yes. The tactical advantage here being that someone in a government base located in America could project themselves mentally to the base of an enemy. and basically kind of fly on the wall, hear secrets, obtain information,
Starting point is 00:13:31 and then project it back to their body and be able to disclose that information with the government they work for. It's a great point because the point is, obviously, every world government essentially has some kind of intelligence division where they want to know what everybody's up to. Right. They have intelligence operatives. Yeah. People like James Bond who go in there and try and figure it out. That's dangerous. That's difficult. They have intelligence operatives. Yeah. People like James Bond who go in there and try and figure it out.
Starting point is 00:13:46 That's dangerous. That's difficult. Takes a lot of energy. Ideally, you would put a bug, a microphone in there. Again, dangerous to get it in there. Might get caught. Don't want to be caught spying.
Starting point is 00:13:56 Cause geopolitical disasters. If you can, just mind beam it. Yeah. Mind beam it. It's a pretty easy way to do things if i could remote view things and project myself to different distances at night when i want to go downstairs and eat many slices of cheese i could just do that from bed you know i could project myself
Starting point is 00:14:19 down there eating the cheese i wouldn't even have to leave the blankets. Well, that would be more the realm of astral projection, wouldn't it? You almost sending your physical body, right? Because I don't want to open a can of worms this early into the podcast, but I don't think Ingo was eating cheese when he was in the Russian embassy. They hire me for a mission to project myself to a Russian base. And they're like, what are you hearing? I'm like, oh yeah, they're talking alright. They're telling me all kinds of secrets.
Starting point is 00:14:50 They're like, we hear a crustling of paper or wrappings or something. What's going on over there? Oh no, they're just saying they're talking about nuclear warheads or something. I can't really make out what's going on. Are you eating the cheese again? They're like, check the kitchen.
Starting point is 00:15:05 Yeah, he's in here. Oh, f***. Your body is limp in the American base, but your astral body is getting fat off cheese. That's the great thing about astral calories. They don't really hit the same. Yeah. I should say, the history of this practice goes back quite a long way.
Starting point is 00:15:24 We're not going to focus on it today, but paranormal abilities that sound just like remote viewing are described in ancient European folk tales. And remote viewing is present in occultist literature of the 19th century. The practice was at the time called something more like telesthesia or traveling clairvoyance. It became popular, as you would imagine, in the Victorian era when there was a lot of popularity in clairvoyance,
Starting point is 00:15:52 despite scientists not really believing in it. But it isn't until the late 1960s and into the 70s that remote viewing as we know it hit its peak. Obviously, like all paranormal phenomenon and abilities, tons of skepticism and criticism from the scientific community, which we'll get into later. But regardless, for the purposes of this story, as you know, Rory, as the pieces of paper behind you tell the story, it doesn't f***ing matter what they thought. Remote viewing was of incredible interest to the US government and its agencies especially during the cold war it really was yeah as you said cold war the documents behind me the gateway
Starting point is 00:16:34 project i'm just checking that is dated the 9th of june 1983 it looks like. So yeah, around the same time. That's exactly right. Because the Cold War was, if nothing else, it was basically... Listen, I didn't pay attention at school. Did I look it up on Wikipedia afterwards to make sure that the Cold War was what I thought it was? Maybe I did. Sue me. We weren't necessarily in the Cold War. But that's what it was, right? It was intelligence.
Starting point is 00:17:04 Because it's called the cold war because not a bullet was fired nothing happened it was all uh competition right in america between russia who was going to be um ruler of the new world after the second world war and so to know what the other country was up to was crucial. You know, this was the space race. This was developing nuclear weapons. This was trying to win sports tournaments. Everything. It was everything.
Starting point is 00:17:37 But Rory, remote viewers alone weren't enough. What they really wanted was a highly specialized version of the skill known as coordinate remote viewing where all you had to do was give them the latitude and longitude of a location and they could go there mentally damn so you didn't need to give them photos you didn't need to give them videos you didn't need to give them more backstory you just gave them the google maps url and they plugged in. That's wild. I mean, that's a pretty intense power. As you said, it feels like if this is humanly possible, it would require a lot of steps. But if you can have someone that you're just punching a couple of digits, hit enter, and they just start screaming because they're traveling thousands of miles per hour across the world, that is a pretty useful
Starting point is 00:18:22 weapon to have. This is kind of like reverse geoguessr or something right i don't know how much you keep up with the geoguessr community uh but they can do some pretty cracked shit on there we may have to explain geoguessr to the audience uh this is the game where it's been around for years they throw you up an image uh taken from google street view from around the world. They throw you up an image taken from Google Street View from around the world. Yes. And then you have to pinpoint on a map where you think it is.
Starting point is 00:18:50 Yeah, just based on what you can see. Some people are very, very good at it. And so to the kind of uninitiated chump like me or Rory, you might be looking for absolute telltale signs of giveaways of where it could be. But it's quite fun, and I do recommend it, to look up expert GeoGuessr players because it is mad. It is mad.
Starting point is 00:19:12 These guys, like, they'll see from the texture of the tarmac on the road, they'll be like that southern Ghana. Right, they can figure it out. There's only one country on earth where the texture of the road looks like that. Those people are definitely being recruited for the military. It's a real, like it's a real skill. I watched a thing on the New York Times once
Starting point is 00:19:35 that, yeah, I mean, there's, I think it's called forensic, what is it, like forensic journalism or something? But it's where, like you know they'll get sent a video of something crazy happening and they don't know where it came from and so people who are experts will like line up the angle of the sun the uh type of flower that was in bloom in the back of a photo wow the all the cloud formations and the mountains in the background and they can pinpoint to within like a few feet where something took place that's nuts i feel like you could maybe play me a clip from an episode of
Starting point is 00:20:10 the u.s office and i'd be able to tell you roughly what season it is right i love that uh idea of like what what is your personal like version of that right someone you can blindfold me and give me a sip of any can of monster and i'll be able to tell you the flavor and when it was released you show me just a 480p resolution screen cap of a video and i could tell you which porn star it was what year it was released to pornhub um yeah i think up, we had a friend, Stephen, who I remember us playing a game of, it was like someone would like hit play on a song for like 0.3 of a second.
Starting point is 00:20:54 Right. And he would be able to tell you like, what artist, what, you know, like it would be like going through like all Metallica songs. It'd be like, you'd hit play and go like, and he'd be like, ride the lightning uh metallica
Starting point is 00:21:06 that's their 1997 album he would that's crazy he would know from like the tiniest piece of music what that was i could maybe guess what flavor of dorito is in the bowl if it was the choice of three of the dorito flavors probably no more than that cool original cheese or well i thought just guessing even if you even if you could taste heat wave. You're just guessing. Even if you could taste, at worst case, you're still guessing. I shove one in my mouth and I'm like, that is quite clearly the cool original release right here in the UK from around 2014.
Starting point is 00:21:38 They're like, you ate the napkin. You missed the poll completely and you ate a napkin. Permission to retake the test, sir. No, get out of here. This is invaluable. Why are you talking like you're in the military? Sir, I just feel like with another opportunity I can prove myself, sir. In my defense, sir, the napkin was delicious, sir.
Starting point is 00:21:59 I believe some of the crumbs have infiltrated the napkin, sir. Sir, can the napkin not also both be cool and original? Sir, sir. He left. He left as soon as you ate the napkin. As soon as you're in your sleep at night. Every night since. Sir, sir.
Starting point is 00:22:18 What I'm trying to say is the U.S. military were deeply interested in finding someone that you could give coordinates to and this is we have to stress how insane this is that they actually tried to do this someone that you could give coordinates to and they could jump inside a government embassy or underwater sighting nuclear submarines uh if you had that power, you could practically win any war. All that could be possible. But for now, back to Ingo Swann. How did he end up in this position? Well, as a young boy, Ingo Swann had shown signs of great psychic ability.
Starting point is 00:22:59 His family saw his talents and encouraged him. If you can't be bothered listening to me, just picture in your mind the first 20 minutes of any x-men movie right a little kid is different from anybody else gets bullied lashes out uses their power runs away becomes homeless is brought in by professor xavier now i don't know what ingo swan was doing as a little kid, but I know if I had those powers, I would have been telekinetically floating the jar of Nutella from our kitchen to my bedroom when my parents weren't looking. Yeah. Or potentially remote viewing my mom's credit card
Starting point is 00:23:34 to buy Nintendo eStore points. Yeah, I'd probably be projecting myself to the inside of a pack of Pokemon cards before I buy it. Make sure I got a shiny Charizard. Then, as a young man, Ingo conducted a number of psychic tests at Stanford University. One story goes that Swan was set the challenge of identifying shapes and items in a box that was hidden from view. After a miraculous series of correct answers, Ingo paused, saying he couldn't see the next clue. The researchers were confused, he was on a roll. Ingo said it was like the box had gone dark somehow.
Starting point is 00:24:13 Well, when they opened the box up, the team discovered the light bulb inside the box had blown. Experiments like these caught the attention of Russell Targand and Harold E. Putoff, both physicists... Not physicists, I wish they were. Both psychics. Sorry, criminals. Conmen. Sorry, not physicists.
Starting point is 00:24:41 Convicts. No, these are psychics and parapsychologists who swan would go on to have a long professional relationship with the three found themselves enlisted by numerous government bodies including the cia and the u.s army who by the 70s were interested in psychic spies the infamous tests conducted around this period seemed to confirm that Ingo had some kind of unexplained ability. In 72, he was brought to the Varian Physics Building at Stanford. He was asked if he could change the results of a magnetometer, a device that measures magnetic fields. During the experiment, the frequency of the oscillator they used doubled for about 30
Starting point is 00:25:26 seconds, so basically going nuts. When the results came back, Swan asked, is that what I'm supposed to do? And Rory, if you don't believe me, here is the page on the CIA website that says so. You've been here before, brother. we're on CIA.gov and these are some Freedom of Information Act documents publication date 1974 released in 2003
Starting point is 00:25:55 and it basically just describes everything we're talking about that's quite a cool line to deliver when you know quite clearly you've done exactly what they asked to like come out with a cigarette and be like i don't know is that enough for you boys yeah you know a little like guitar riff plays yeah try that in a small town yeah it's just some cool kind of redneck shit uh he's like the machine explodes while he's just taking a drag of a cigarette we about done
Starting point is 00:26:27 they're like that thing costs half a million dollars taxpayer dollars oh shit really you know what i've got that kind of cash that's wild i will say look very cool that this happened and that it's documented and that allegedly this did take place. For sure, it is. Don't know what the f***ing magnometer meter is. Don't know what it means if he moved it with his eyes. What is it? What? Yeah, just magnetic fields, isn't it? It gets back to that classic stuff with the paranormal, right? Of like so many different ways of, in theory,
Starting point is 00:27:01 detecting ghosts, detecting paranormal activity. Yeah. And it always just comes back to essentially like hey move this thing with your mind yeah so a little subtle for me flip a coin with your head with your mind but he's not telekinetic he's not telekinetic is he but what is he doing he's sending it it's like an energy yeah i suppose they're trying to tap into some kind of energy or projection of vibes, man. Right.
Starting point is 00:27:27 That's coincidental. Because that's pretty ambiguous. Cook a chicken with your mind. Then I'll be impressed. He force chokes one of the researchers against the wall. The scientists are kind of mocking him. It's like, all right, if you're so psychic, why don't you prove it to us, all right?
Starting point is 00:27:47 That's what we want to see. Tell us something that you could never know. Go and prove it. And he kind of holds his hand. He goes, you have a wife. It's like, oh, yeah, big shot, yeah. Oh, you could tell I have a wife? She's dead.
Starting point is 00:28:01 It's like, what? No, she's not. I killed her. You're like, like ah very funny bring her back though bring her back my wife if you did sir dark lot he drops to his knees please sire it became clear to the scientists and to the agencies that Swan possessed this rare ability to coordinate remote view. And much of the work he conducted formed the basis of military programs like Gondola Wish, Grill Flame, Sunstreak, all of the above, which eventually fell under the famed Stargate from the late 70s onwards. Wow. named Stargate from the late 70s onwards. Wow.
Starting point is 00:28:47 Stargate, of course, is the US military program that tried to harness psychic abilities for national security. It's very cool. I feel like when you're working at this level, you can tell how classified and cool your operation is based on the name of the operation. So if you're getting recruited for Operation Nightfire, get your affairs in order because there's a chance you're not coming back.
Starting point is 00:29:11 You're going to be part of an elite force that's probably being airdropped into enemy territory. Whereas if someone says, congratulations, you're now an official team member of Operation Pussy Willow. You're like, all right. What is that? Weird name.
Starting point is 00:29:28 Because it feels like, yeah, it feels like, all right, congratulations. Operation Dandelion will commence immediately. You're like, what is that? That's right. You do the coffee runs in the morning and then clean the toilets at night. It's like, all right, I'm the janitor.
Starting point is 00:29:43 I am the janitor of this building. Cleaning the toilets. That project occurs twice a day. It's Operation Sparkling Bowl. It's not that exciting. Whereas Operation Nipple Blast. Oh, baby. That's not to be missed.
Starting point is 00:30:00 Kiss your wife and kids goodbye. You don't come back from Operation Nip Blast. Ingo took part in many experiments that we'll get to later that we have written record of. But his time with Mr. Axelrod and the twins was so highly top secret that we only have Ingo's memoirs as proof. His classic memoir called Penetration.
Starting point is 00:30:23 Terrible name. Terrible name for a memoir. We're going to find out just what he penetrated after a couple of words from today's sponsors. We're back in the cigar, smoke-filled office of Mr. Axelrod in 1975. Ingo sits thinking about the offer before him. The last number of years have been a wild ride indeed.
Starting point is 00:30:47 But secret phone calls in the middle of the night, blindfolded helicopter rides in strange underground facilities. This was a whole new level of mental. Literally. But he was too intrigued to say no. He put out his cigar, outstretched his hand and accepted the offer. To which Axelrod responded, Good. Now get some rest, tomorrow we
Starting point is 00:31:07 begin. The following day, Ingo was handed a list of coordinates. I don't understand, said Ingo. I don't recognize these numbers. That's because these coordinates are for the moon. All right. coordinates are for the moon. All right. This is starting to make, you know, getting nuclear launch codes from Russian subs look like a f***ing afternoon walk to get ice cream. I mean, does it? I feel like, if anything, this is one of the missions
Starting point is 00:31:38 that didn't need to be classified. Because if any other country found out you're trying to mentally project your guys to the moon, what they're getting from that is, we're fine. We're in the lead. Yeah, we're winning. We're winning. We won the Cold War. That's the shit in the Oppenheimer movie where Oppenheimer's like, oh, we're fine. Oh, oh, we're totally fine. Oh, guys, chill. Hey, honestly, get a coffee break because they are nowhere near. Yeah, we're actually, just keep building rockets chill. Hey, honestly get a coffee break because they are nowhere near. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:32:07 We're actually just keep building rockets. We're, we're, we're on the right path. They have it. They're trying to mentally send themselves to another planet. It's like, it's like, uh,
Starting point is 00:32:16 we believe the researchers are trying to mentally project to the moon. It's like, okay, cool. Are the researchers pink Floyd and the grateful dad? Because hippies have been trying to do that since the 60s, brother. Right. Everyone, take an early Christmas vacation. We're good. This is also after the point in which we went there.
Starting point is 00:32:34 And quickly found there's nothing. We went in person. Well, we did, but we wore hamstrung, right? They only went up there with enough time, resources, oxygen to just, you know, they basically went up, did the nay-nay into the camera to rub it in the Russians' faces and then came back because it was very expensive and very difficult to get there. They couldn't really explore. Yeah, that's true. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:32:58 And we're not going to get into conspiracy, brother, but we ain't exactly been back for very long either. So, you know read into that what you will they began the moon experiment looking at known areas and revealing nothing very interesting to begin with but it took a turn when they switched the coordinates to the dark side of the moon at first he saw tracks that had been made by some kind of vehicle, and eventually located a large crater that was shrouded in a strange green light. Honing further in around the crater, Ingo could make out infrastructure, towers, hangars, dome structures with windows, more vehicle tracks and some machinery. more vehicle tracks and some machinery.
Starting point is 00:33:45 A whole hive of activity was centered around this location, so Ingo zoned in further, trying to get a better and better look. At the window of one of the buildings, he made out some human-like beings. What happened next was a terrifying first for Ingo. The figures stopped and turned towards the window, almost as if they'd sensed his presence. Ingo retreated, ended the session, and looked at Axelrod. You knew! You knew they're psychic too! To which Axelrod replied,
Starting point is 00:34:19 The experiment is over! Oh, shit. The experiment is over. Oh, shit. I'm going to need a lot of documentation to back up some of these claims right now. This episode is over. The worst way this case could end is with me just taking my own evidence off the wall at the end. I'm like, I don't believe in this anymore.
Starting point is 00:34:46 I'm like ripping up my own documents. This is insane, the claims that were made. So in this chapter of Ingo's life, he's working for this unknown agency. Let's be real. Who the else could it be but the CIA? Or, you know, it's just one of the three-letter organizations in the US, right? I mean, it could be one of the new ones.
Starting point is 00:35:08 You know, we've got the kind of UFO-specific ones. But he's working there to study extraterrestrials. Let's call it what it is. Whilst there appears to be no official record of said agency, or Axelrod, or the twin agents, we've had to wait for everything else to become declassified so what if we're just still waiting on these but it makes perfect sense doesn't it if this skill really worked and if it worked like they said it worked eventually you're going to start looking
Starting point is 00:35:39 outwards for alien life because why would this paranormal ability be limited to viewing places on earth there's no evidence of Axelrod probably a code name even existing it'll be a code name
Starting point is 00:35:53 you think Axelrod is his real name oh yeah and Axelrose from Guns N' Roses is his real name I actually don't know
Starting point is 00:36:00 if it is I assume you think Colonel Chad Gigaton is also a fictional character you don't hey Ingo is i assume you think colonel chad gigaton is also a fictional character you know hey ingo is the father of this shit and he's we've got the evidence to say that he multiple stanford experiments and he was part of all these missions for this other organizations you know but this story in particular we just need to you know hey tom york's in Radiohead, okay?
Starting point is 00:36:25 Makes some of the best albums ever. Everyone agrees, best albums, great guy, writes these crazy songs. That gives him some leeway to write some howlers, write some stuff that's not very good or interesting or bad, but everyone's like, he's still the man. I kind of get this argument, but also at a lot of occasions that doesn't make sense. That's like saying, hey, you know, the Pope,
Starting point is 00:36:51 he's a pretty holy guy. Says some prayers, baptizes some people. He should be able to crime a little. He should be able to do a bit of murder. I mean, you joke, but that is the point of the Pope is he's literally infallible. I think that's part of the the Pope, is he's literally infallible. I think that's part of the whole problem, isn't it?
Starting point is 00:37:09 He's got diplomatic immunity on earth. He can't be wrong by definition. That's kind of the big problem, was even when they did do bad stuff, he was always right. Wow, I didn't know that. I wonder how far that would stretch. How far could you push that? Yeah, like if he just gets some obviously wrong shit wrong,
Starting point is 00:37:27 like two plus two equals five. Yeah. Catholics have to be like, you know, if you look at a four on its side, it do be looking a little bit like a five. Because, you know, as people, we underestimate the value of the sense of things and that's the lesson
Starting point is 00:37:46 right father or your highness he's drunk as f*** yeah right father father he stole a guy's wheelchair and crashed it into
Starting point is 00:37:55 a charity store that's that one's gonna be harder to explain but Rory this wasn't all he saw of extraterrestrials as well as the moon base inhabited by psychic
Starting point is 00:38:06 humanoids Ingo would come across undercover aliens right here on earth and I don't mean to alarm all our west coast friends drinking smoothies in the sun but they're in LA oh my god in a Los Angeles supermarket in 1976 he was awestruck by a beautiful woman perusing the shelves and yet something wasn't right his psychic sensibilities were stimulated at the sight of her further along the aisle of the supermarket he noticed the twins were there too observing the scene he later discovered that the quote sexy scantily clad woman was in fact an extraterrestrial that the agency had been monitoring for quite some time. Got it. Just happened to be shopping at the Walmart in Pasadena.
Starting point is 00:38:55 This was, I don't think she was in a Walmart. I think she was probably in a sexier store than that. I don't know what's sexier than a Walmart. Target? This is some kind of shape shapeshifting alien, right? Like in Men in Black. And hear me out. If you could take any form, would you not take the form of an LA-10? That's a pretty convincing argument. Exactly.
Starting point is 00:39:19 Either that or Ryan Gosling, probably. It's pretty close. In one final, crazy experience described in his book, Penetration, Ingo alleged that Axelrod had approached him at work on the university campus unannounced one afternoon and asked him, have you ever seen a UFO?
Starting point is 00:39:38 The pair took a private jet to an undisclosed mountain location. Why did they have to do that? Ingo believed... Just give him the f***ing code? Ingo believed it. Just give him the code. Ingo believes it to be Alaska. Arriving at night, he was advised to remove anything metal and given a thermal jumpsuit.
Starting point is 00:39:55 Along with Axelrod and, you guessed it, the twins, he was whisked off to the desolate winter's night in a small van. After a further 45-minute walk through a snowy forest, they stopped for the lake, and he was told to be still, to be silent, and to simply observe. He said, There was a sort of ball of energy that formed over the lake
Starting point is 00:40:17 and sent out purple lightning things, and it grew and grew into a multicoloured triangle. It hovered over the lake and started sucking up the water. Why are they showing him this? Are they bragging? Because they're like, hey, you want to see a UFO? I will low-key defend this, because we know that the government
Starting point is 00:40:39 was very fond of these remote viewer guys. They were very crucial to geopolitics of the time. And we also know that government has been hunting for alien life over the years. But do go together like peanut butter and jam, my friend. These people, if their abilities were real, would be absolutely central to the hunt for and communication with alien life.
Starting point is 00:41:02 Right. So you're thinking that's why they showed them the craft? Like, if you figure out that these guys, you know, these guys' skills exist, sure, you're going to win the war against Russia first. Try to. And then there's going to be a big old to-do list of shit you got to fix in the country.
Starting point is 00:41:18 But finding alien life might be right up there. I feel like investing so much in guys who can mentally project themselves into places in the world that's a big swing and if it turns out that's a miss and a bit of a dead end you got a lot of catching up to do because if you're like uh shit okay really thought that was gonna work really thought these guys were telling the truth turns Turns out a lot of them were lying. Uh-oh, China has supercomputers now because they actually spent a lot of money on developing technology
Starting point is 00:41:50 instead of paying a guy called Ingo Swann. Yeah. To go to the moon with his brain. Yeah, what's Russia been doing? They made mechs. That's smart. Right. No, that is smart.
Starting point is 00:42:04 Look, we focused on Swan today because while there are many other remote viewers, he's the most recognized and he invented the phrase as well, which is pretty cool. Did he actually? Swan also went on to become a distinguished artist. This is something we've seen with other kind of paranormal people, right? That they, I guess because they have this weird insight into the world and to an alternate world they try to then reflect their experiences uh in his case reflect his experiences of cosmology and alien life and remote viewing um rory do you want to see some of ingo's artworks that express this paranormal phenomenon i would love to i'm only a little bit scared because the last time we were hosting an episode where the protagonist was pretty artistic and into
Starting point is 00:42:47 painting uh was the episode where an individual named david was in a relationship with an alien and painted some pretty pornographic evidence whoa yeah but that was completely different because david what the whole point was a valentine special. His whole experience, fair enough to him, as weird as that was, his whole experience with the paranormal was only just romantic, weirdly. All he did was have sex. So it made sense that he was going to depict that.
Starting point is 00:43:15 In hindsight, that made the story way more believable because that's the most human response ever. It's like, did he learn the secrets of the universe? No, he pretty much just wanted to get laid every time they showed up. I promise you, I promise you there's nothing sexual about the images I'm about to show you. All right. And just to clarify, this is from the book Penetration. That's a penis. Huh? That is a penis. Whoa. Why did I know it was going to be pornographic? It's not pornographic. What relevance does this have to the case?
Starting point is 00:43:45 You don't like that one? Do you want to see another one? Hold on. That's just a painting of a golden dick with a bunch of guys flexing in the background. Okay. Alright. I think you have a hangover from the Valentine's Day episode where you think everything is sexual when this is just a guy expressing his emotions.
Starting point is 00:44:01 Alright. I feel like this one's going to be even more pornographic than the last one. Yeah. Not even a painting. Not even a painting this time. That is a fully erect penis with a guy holding onto the testicles. It is. Why is there a nun in the background? That's art.
Starting point is 00:44:15 Stop showing me anything. Okay, hold on. All right, one last one. And this is pretty interesting because this is from only about six months ago this one dropped. So this is his latest piece. Okay, two guys kissing, grabbing each other's dicks
Starting point is 00:44:35 with their shirts off. So not sure what the relevance is to the paranormal. I will say his later period of his artworks is different to his early period. Because the early period is, you know, it's a lot more like, you know, this kind of stuff. So it was a bit more paranormal themed in the past. Yeah. Yeah. And now it's taking a sharp turn.
Starting point is 00:45:02 Post-Magic Mike, something really awoke inside of Ringo. You know, I think it's kind of beautiful, you know, because if that's what this guy can presumably just teleport himself to seeing around the galaxy, if he's able to see that, the fact that he still wants to just look at hot bods covered in oil and tattoos all day long, maybe that just goes to show that life here on earth is the sweetest of all. Yeah, I mean, if he's kind of figuring out his sexuality this late in life, is that maybe possibly an explanation
Starting point is 00:45:34 for all the, I mean, let's go back in time here. You said he was growing up in school. He was an outcast who was bullied and made fun of. He had lots of confusing feelings inside. His parents called him different than other people. That was actually a mistake on my part. I was making a joke about this being the plot of an X-Men movie. That's the bit from X-Men.
Starting point is 00:45:58 His life was fine. His parents were pretty encouraging of him doing all this stuff. Ah, okay. You're like, he had some pretty hot boyfriends over the years. Let me tell you. He wasn't confused, brother. Nothing confused about those images. It's like he's not drawing different genitals side by side to compare them.
Starting point is 00:46:17 They're all balls and cocks. He's drawing one, the one he likes. This is a monster case. I hope you appreciate, Rory. And I realize it's a big one, taking on quite a journey, but there is so much too, as you well know, to this history of remote viewing and God, this is only the life of one person, Ingo Swann, even if he is an important person in this history. And God, what a perfect subject for a TPL investigation. I love that you made some of the wildest claims
Starting point is 00:46:47 we've ever heard on this podcast before. And your supporting evidence were three pictures of penises. I don't really see what the issue is. I think you said at one point, he mentally projected himself to the dark side of the moon, which by the way, I think it's common knowledge on the dark side of the moon doesn't exist. It's not a real thing.
Starting point is 00:47:04 No, there is. I don't think that there is. There absolutely is. I'm pretty sure there isn't. We haven't been there. And you said there was a secret alien moon base where they thought psychically
Starting point is 00:47:16 and could see his astral body. And then you said, check out this wang on your laptop. As if to kind of like Men in Black style flashbang me with a cock so large that I would kind of forget all the things that you told me. They were pretty sizable. Yeah, there was a bamboozling sort of element to that.
Starting point is 00:47:37 Here's one cool thing he did. I'll leave you with this, ladies and gentlemen, because he is a confusing figure and a bit like Uri Geller, a bit like other paranormal people like this no uh it's hard to know it's hard to know because there are stories that are beyond belief like the dark moon base I agree this is a cool one at one point he was challenged to remote view this is in a university setting to remote view the planet jupiter back in the 70s and you can go onto wikipedia and go online and read a transcript of the recording of him talking
Starting point is 00:48:13 about being on jupiter remote viewing insane it is insane he relayed a bunch of new information about jupiter he described the planet's rings which wouldn't be discovered for six more years until a satellite went there voyager he described crystals in the atmosphere which were again proven true much later on which he truly couldn't have possibly known about although as if to again perfectly encapsulate how controversial the whole thing is, others point out he failed to mention any of Jupiter's 95 moons. Which seem like you probably spot those if you're looking up in the night sky. But, again, cool stuff. Pretty wild stuff, I would say.
Starting point is 00:49:02 I think we're going to see a lot of this if you ever investigate these kind of strange points in classified military history. They did have an interest in a lot of this stuff, and a lot of these things did take place, as we know, from the evidence wall, even behind me right now, the Gateway Experiment and all this strange stuff on astral projection. But there is a point where it kind of transcends into fiction and a lot of the stuff that people claim happened actually isn't in any of the documents that have been released to the public and i think that is probably what we're seeing today there probably is a lot of stuff that this individual did do with the government probably a lot of stuff that he didn't um including seeing an alien in a supermarket with the matrix twins out of nowhere for no reason did i mention she had massive hunkers no you didn't but i it was implied because of how much
Starting point is 00:49:57 he talked about her and was obsessed with her sure yeah just a horny guy all around really yeah um yeah you're completely right though i mean if we're being completely honest uh i think the reason we find these cases so satisfying so fascinating is because in each one in each kind of redacted document as you say they don't mention dark side moon bases yeah they don't mention seeing psychic aliens what they do mention if anything arguably is extremely limited proof of paranormal phenomenon very small glimmers of proof and the skeptics will say that those tests were flawed and that the results are void and don't count but the documents do sometimes say that shit happened yeah and and that a fact, that they do say it happened. You can debate whether it's valid or not,
Starting point is 00:50:48 but they do sometimes say it happened. That's what's interesting here. But we do obviously go off piece into kind of mental stuff afterwards. Rory, we have looked into absolutely everything through the history of Ingo Swann as a lens to look onto the world of remote viewing. One we've touched on in the past,
Starting point is 00:51:04 this is more of a dedicated case. Sometimes I would jump in here to say, you know, let's not have a conclusion on remote viewing because it's too big. You know, let's focus on Ingo. I don't want to do that. I want to make this about remote viewing. That's cheating. Let's lay down the...
Starting point is 00:51:22 That's cheating for sure. Is it? It definitely is. Well, what do you want to make the conclusion about? Ringo. Ingo. Ingo. Whether or not someone teleported their brain to the secret side of the moon. Oh, I see, because you want
Starting point is 00:51:38 to, because you believe in remote viewing, but you just don't like Ingo. I think there's a lot to decipher here today but you are right I think there's there's parts of it
Starting point is 00:51:51 that are really interesting and fascinating very interesting to read about whether they're real or not I think most of this story today is fake fictitious
Starting point is 00:52:00 okay I think Ingo created it himself so you want to you want to focus on Ingo I think soo created it himself so you want to you want to focus on ingo i think so so because we probably will you want to you want to remove viewing to live another day on this paranormal life and to be investigated further i'm not going to deny the viewers that i wanted to hold a referendum but let's not deny the viewers that let's come back and do it another time because i will say it now in this script i have in front of me, this was such a monster case.
Starting point is 00:52:26 In the script in front of me, I have an entire guide for how me and you, Rory, can allegedly learn to remote view. We were going to try and do it here on the show, experiment with it, let you experiment at home and let us know how it went.
Starting point is 00:52:39 Don't have time. What we're going to do- We're already over an hour. We're going to go on to the after party over on Patreon, where we often do the behind the scenes of the show. And we're going to do is we're going to go on to the after party over on Patreon, where we often do the behind the scenes of the show. And we're going to hop on this week to talk about the behind the scenes of this case and also do a little experiment.
Starting point is 00:52:54 I like the sound of that. So you know where to go if you want to see that. That's going to be on patreon.com. Links in the description of this podcast, or if you're on YouTube, it's in the description of the video video patreon.com forward slash this paranormal life until then Rory in the case of Ingo Swann
Starting point is 00:53:09 and his remote viewing horny adventures is it a yes or a no today? Horniness and the truth rarely go hand in hand so unfortunately it's going to be a no for me this week
Starting point is 00:53:22 damn I think unfortunately like Uri I think there's, like Uri, I think there's probably a lot of truth in what Ingo has got up to in terms of his exploits. But the bits are clear where it goes off-piste for us, and I think that throws the whole thing into murky waters. That's why it's a no for me.
Starting point is 00:53:37 Ooh, a double no. Making it dos nos, por favor. But as we said, this will not be the last time that we cover astral projection and remote viewing on this podcast. We will come back. Clearly Rory's got something hidden up his sleeve. I want to give it a fair trial.
Starting point is 00:53:55 Because I'm done. I'm done. I kind of hit the portraits of cocks and I was like, check please. It's like, I've been talking, but I mentally projected myself to Barbados halfway through the podcast. I've been talking but I mentally projected myself to Barbados halfway through the podcast I've been I've been mentally
Starting point is 00:54:09 at the pub for the last hour guys I hope you enjoy that investigation into Ingo Swann I felt that was a blast from the past
Starting point is 00:54:15 of TPL stuff really fun one so fun to look into and what a mental guy check out his artwork if you dare if you can't get enough this paranormal life as i say head to patreon.com forward slash this paranormal life where you
Starting point is 00:54:30 can get that behind the scenes coming on friday i suppose for uh more uh remote viewing brilliance as well as a whole library of six to seven years worth of bonus episodes after parties and cool stuff as well as um fun merch limited edition stuff and if this remote viewing and projection thing works out on the after party we might just add a whole another tier where if you pay to you know for whatever that tier is we'll just come to your house we'll come to your dreams at night sounds creepy because i don't know if they can see us i'll float above your bed like a sleep paralysis demon all right how about that just just focus on the the kind of five and ten buck tiers where you get a bunch of great digital content you know we can workshop the floating above your bed tier yeah um we'll figure it out
Starting point is 00:55:20 that's patreon.com forward slash this paranormal life. And if you want to just connect with the show and our lovely, lovely, bloody listeners, all the usual places. Links are everywhere to our Twitter, our Instagram, our Facebook secret society, our Reddit page and our YouTube. If you want to watch these investigations in glorious high definition. Or just look up because I'm there. No, you haven't learned it yet. You don't know what it entails. I'm in your house because I'm there. No. You haven't learned it yet. You don't know what it entails.
Starting point is 00:55:46 I'm in your house. I'm in your dreams. I'm in your head. You're like, you can watch us in HD and I can see you in real life. Higher definition. While you sleep, I'll be there. In the highest definition possible.
Starting point is 00:56:03 We will see you in the astral plane. Thank you for listening to This Paranormal Life. Remember to live fast, investigate, and die young, baby!

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